From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 01:57:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24303 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:57:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24298 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:57:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id CAA22259; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:57:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981025025521.066b7ec0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:56:50 -0700 To: Don Morrison From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Where's the 3.0 press release? Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3632A3DD.E2CE286D@u.washington.edu> References: <363040E9.42459888@gorean.org> <4.1.19981023090158.045edb20@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not everything gets accepted. You must know how to write a press release that will generate interest and be used. And all publicity -- even negative publicity -- is good. (Though positive publicity is better.) Sounds silly, but this has been empirically tested. --Brett At 09:06 PM 10/24/98 -0700, Don Morrison wrote: >Bandwagon argument. You can throw anything into a pr machine if and >when you want to. > >Brett Glass wrote: >> >> You might note that every major news outlet is touting the release of >> the next Linux kernel, which is also not yet ripe and battle-tested. >> (The articles say this.) Failing to follow suit will hurt. >> >> --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 10:06:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01191 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:06:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost1.u.washington.edu (mailhost1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01184 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:06:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from u.washington.edu (D-128-95-141-86.dhcp.washington.edu [128.95.141.86]) by mailhost1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id KAA25152; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:05:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36336930.957E087C@u.washington.edu> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:08:48 -0800 From: Don Morrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where's the 3.0 press release? References: <363040E9.42459888@gorean.org> <4.1.19981023090158.045edb20@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981025025521.066b7ec0@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Not everything gets accepted. You must know how to write a press > release that will generate interest and be used. Of course I meant a _good_ pr machine. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 12:10:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13111 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 12:10:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13105 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 12:10:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id PAA14862; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:10:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:10:01 -0500 (EST) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Don Morrison cc: Brett Glass , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where's the 3.0 press release? In-Reply-To: <36336930.957E087C@u.washington.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok I finished one up and zoomed it off to Brett T. at daemon news. It will be in the next issue. If it looks good enough perhaps it can now be used as a template for future PR's so we dont have this same discussion and nit picking the next time we want to do one. Perhaps someone will modify it for 2.2.8-RELEASE what it comes out and then we can go on a full media blitz. Chris -- "You both seem to be ignoring the fact that the networking market is driven by so-called 'IT professionals' these days, most of whom can't tell the difference between an ARP and a carp." --Wes Peters ===================================| Open Systems FreeBSD Consulting. FreeBSD 3.0 is available now! | Phone: (402)573-9124 / ICQ # 20016186 -----------------------------------| 3335 N. 103 Plaza, Omaha, NE 68134 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting, Network Engineering, Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 14:03:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21830 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:03:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21825 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:03:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (IDENT:WHAT_THE_HELL_YOU_LOOKING_AT_@d60-147.leach.ucdavis.edu [169.237.60.147]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA03629; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:03:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA29842; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:03:13 GMT (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19981025140312.A29819@nuxi.com> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:03:12 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Open Systems Networking Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where's the 3.0 press release? Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <36336930.957E087C@u.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Open Systems Networking on Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 03:10:01PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ok I finished one up and zoomed it off to Brett T. at daemon news. It will Cc'ed to the list?? -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 14:36:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23875 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:36:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23869 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:36:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id RAA06488; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 17:36:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 17:36:14 -0500 (EST) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: "David O'Brien" cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where's the 3.0 press release? In-Reply-To: <19981025140312.A29819@nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-716402162-909354974=:26960" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-716402162-909354974=:26960 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well ok if you CANT wait 6 days till its daemon news :-) It is not perfect, probably has errors, but the BSD news guys will take care of that. But this is what I sent them. Most of the layout was suggested by brett glass, who had to spell a lot of things out for me because english is not my main language anymore FreeBSD is. I *think* the only thing brett wanted changed that I didnt change was the o bullets section that listed new features. Brett said this should be short sentences and to remove the bullets. But since it was slated for BSD news only, I figured the readers were more intelligent than some PR guy at CNet or PCMAG so I left them in. That needs to be considered if this PR is used as a template in the future. But its a good starting block I think. And hopefully now that we have something to build on, everytime "PR" is mentioned we wont have to hash out what should and should not be in it, just take this and modify it. Jordan gave the OK for it to be in BSD news so i'm assuming that it's ok to post it here. If not im sure I'll here about it. Chris -- "You both seem to be ignoring the fact that the networking market is driven by so-called 'IT professionals' these days, most of whom can't tell the difference between an ARP and a carp." --Wes Peters ===================================| Open Systems FreeBSD Consulting. FreeBSD 3.0 is available now! | Phone: (402)573-9124 / ICQ # 20016186 -----------------------------------| 3335 N. 103 Plaza, Omaha, NE 68134 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting, Network Engineering, Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net --0-716402162-909354974=:26960 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=PR Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: FreeBSD PR Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=PR Sm9yZGFuIEh1YmJhcmQgDQpQdWJsaWMgUmVsYXRpb25zDQpGcmVlQlNEIElu Yy4gDQpXYWxudXQgQ3JlZWsgQ0RST00NCjQwNDEgUGlrZSBMYW5lLCBTdWl0 ZSBGDQpDb25jb3JkLCBDQSA5NDUyMA0KVVNBIA0KVm9pY2U6ICg1MTApOTI4 LTgzODANCkZBWDogKDkyNSk2NzQtMDgyMQ0KRS1tYWlsOiBqa2hAZnJlZWJz ZC5vcmcgDQoNCg0KCQkJLS0tLS0gRk9SIElNTUVESUFURSBSRUxFQVNFIC0t LS0tDQoNCgkJICBGUkVFQlNEIElOQy4gQU5OT1VOQ0VTIFJFTEVBU0UgT0Yg RlJFRUJTRCAzLjAhDQoNCldBTE5VVCBDUkVFSywgQ0EgLS0NCg0KRnJlZUJT RCBJbmMuICBhbm5vdW5jZWQgdG9kYXkgdGhlIHJlbGVhc2Ugb2YgdGhlIGdy b3VuZC1icmVha2luZyBGcmVlQlNEDQozLjAgVU5JWCBvcGVyYXRpbmcgc3lz dGVtISBGcmVlQlNEIGlzIHRoZSBmYXN0LCBwb3dlcmZ1bGwsIFVOSVggb3Bl cmF0aW5nDQpzeXN0ZW0gZGVyaXZlZCBmcm9tIDQuNCBCU0QgVU5JWC4NCg0K IkZyZWVCU0QgaGFzIGJlZW4gZXh0cmVtZWx5IHN0YWJsZSBmb3IgdXMuIFR3 byB5ZWFycyBhZnRlciBkaXNjb3ZlcmluZw0KIEZyZWVCU0QsIHdlIGhhdmUg eWV0IHRvIGZpbmQgYSByZWFzb24gd2h5IHdlIHNob3VsZCBzd2l0Y2ggdG8g YW55dGhpbmcNCiBlbHNlLiIgLS0gRGF2aWQgRmlsbywgWWFob28hIENvLWZv dW5kZXINCg0KIEJ1aWxkaW5nIG9uIEZyZWVCU0QncyByZXB1dGF0aW9uIG9m IHF1YWxpdHksIHN0YWJpbGl0eSwgYW5kIHBlcmZvcm1hbmNlLA0KIDMuMCBp bnRyb2R1Y2VzOg0KDQogbyBBIG5ldyAiQ0FNIiAoQ29tbW9uIEFjY2VzcyBN ZXRob2QpIFNDU0kgc3Vic3lzdGVtIHdoaWNoIG9mZmVycw0KICAgaW1wcm92 ZWQgcGVyZm9ybWFuY2UsIGJldHRlciBlcnJvciByZWNvdmVyeSBhbmQgc3Vw cG9ydCBmb3IgbW9yZQ0KICAgU0NTSSBjb250cm9sbGVycy4gIA0KDQogbyBI b3N0IEFUTSBSZXNlYXJjaCBQbGF0Zm9ybSAoIkhBUlAiKSBzb2Z0d2FyZSBi eQ0KICAgTmV0d29yayBDb21wdXRpbmcgU2VydmljZXMsIEluYy4gDQoNCiBv IFNNUCAoU3ltbWV0cmljIE11bHRpUHJvY2Vzc2luZykgc3VwcG9ydCBhZGRl ZC4gDQoNCiBvIFN1bidzIFdFQk5GUyBzdGFuZGFyZCBpcyBub3cgc3VwcG9y dGVkLiANCg0KIG8gSW1wcm92ZW1lbnRzIHRvIHRoZSBmaWxlc3lzdGVtIHdp dGggU29mdHVwZGF0ZXMgYWxsb3dzIGZvcg0KICAgYXN5bmNocm9ub3VzIHNw ZWVkcyB3aXRoIHN5Y2hyb25vdXMgc2FmZXR5Lg0KDQogbyBUaGUgbmV3IGRl ZmF1bHQgYmluYXJ5IHR5cGUgKGFuZCBjb21waWxlciB0b29sY2hhaW4pIGhh cyBiZWVuIHN3aXRjaGVkDQogICBmcm9tIGEub3V0IHRvIEVMRi4NCiANCiBv IEFzeW5jIElPIGlzIGltcGxlbWVudGVkIHdpdGggYWRkaXRpb25hbCBzdXBw b3J0IGZvciBrZXJuZWwgYXNzaXN0ZWQNCiAgIHRocmVhZHMuDQoNCiBvIFRo ZSBpbnRyb2R1Y3Rpb24gb2YgdGhlIENvZGEgRmlsZXN5c3RlbSwgYW4gTkZT IHJlcGxhY2VtbnQuDQoNCiBvIEhhcmR3YXJlIFJBSUQgc3VwcG9ydCBsZXZl bHMgMCwgMSBhbmQgNS4gDQoNCg0KIlRoZSBGcmVlQlNEIDMuMCByZWxlYXNl IGlzIGEgc2lnbmlmaWNhbnQgbWlsZXN0b25lIGluIG91ciBvbmdvaW5nDQog ZGV2ZWxwb21lbnQgcHJvY2Vzcy4gIEl0IGJvYXN0cyBtYWpvciBwZXJmb3Jt YW5jZSBhbmQgc2VjdXJpdHkgZmVhdHVyZXMNCiB3aGljaCBzdHJlbmd0aGVu IEZyZWVCU0QncyBwb3NpdGlvbiBhcyBhIHByZW1pZXIgc2VydmVyIHBsYXRm b3JtIGFuZA0KIHByb3ZpZGVzIGEgc29saWQgZm91bmRhdGlvbiBvbiB3aGlj aCB3ZSB3aWxsIGNvbnRpbnVlIHRvIGJ1aWxkIHRoZSAzLngNCiBmYW1pbHkg b2YgcHJvZHVjdHMuIiAtLSBNaWtlIFNtaXRoLCBGcmVlQlNEIEVuZ2luZWVy DQoNClRoZSBwcmljZSBmb3IgdGhlIHN0YW5kYXJkIDQgQ0RST00gc2V0IGZy b20gV2FsbnV0IENyZWVrIGlzICQzOS45NS4gVGhlIDQNCkNEUk9NIHNldCB3 aXRoICJUaGUgQ29tcGxldGUgRnJlZUJTRCIgYm9vayBpcyAkNjkuOTUNCg0K RnJlZUJTRCBtYXkgYmUgZG93bmxvYWRlZCBmcmVlIGZyb20gdGhlIGludGVy bmV0IG9yIHB1cmNoYXNlZCBvbiA0IENELVJPTVMNCmZyb20gV2FsbnV0IENy ZWVrLiBGb3IgbW9yZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBzZWUgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5mcmVl YnNkLm9yZy4gVG8NCm9yZGVyIHRoZSA0IENEUk9NIHNldCBzZWUgaHR0cDov L3d3dy5jZHJvbS5jb20uDQoNCg== --0-716402162-909354974=:26960-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 17:06:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06888 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 17:04:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06880 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 17:04:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA07738; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:33:29 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA19799; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:33:25 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981026113325.E16609@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:33:25 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Open Systems Networking , "David O'Brien" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where's the 3.0 press release? References: <19981025140312.A29819@nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Watson on Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 05:36:14PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 25 October 1998 at 17:36:14 -0500, Chris Watson wrote: > > Well ok if you CANT wait 6 days till its daemon news :-) Well, one reason might be that people on this list might have suggestions for improvement. I think it's pretty good, but I'm still going to suggest some changes :-) > It is not perfect, probably has errors, but the BSD news guys will > take care of that. The more the merrier. > But this is what I sent them. Most of the layout was suggested by > brett glass, who had to spell a lot of things out for me because > english is not my main language anymore FreeBSD is. I *think* the > only thing brett wanted changed that I didnt change was the o > bullets section that listed new features. Brett said this should be > short sentences and to remove the bullets. But since it was slated > for BSD news only, I figured the readers were more intelligent than > some PR guy at CNet or PCMAG so I left them in. It's not a question of intelligence, it's a question of style. I agree with Brett that, for a PR, there should be no bullets. I agree with you that, for Dæmon News, the bullets look OK. > That needs to be considered if this PR is used as a template in the > future. But its a good starting block I think. And hopefully now > that we have something to build on, everytime "PR" is mentioned we > wont have to hash out what should and should not be in it, just take > this and modify it. Jordan gave the OK for it to be in BSD news so > i'm assuming that it's ok to post it here. If not im sure I'll here > about it. You can post most things here :-) > ----- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ----- > > FREEBSD INC. ANNOUNCES RELEASE OF FREEBSD 3.0! No bang, please. > WALNUT CREEK, CA -- > > FreeBSD Inc. announced today the release of the ground-breaking FreeBSD > 3.0 UNIX operating system! FreeBSD is the fast, powerfull, UNIX operating 3.0 UNIX operating system. FreeBSD is the fast, powerful, operating > system derived from 4.4 BSD UNIX. system derived from 4.4BSD UNIX. > "FreeBSD has been extremely stable for us. Two years after discovering > FreeBSD, we have yet to find a reason why we should switch to anything > else." -- David Filo, Yahoo! Co-founder > > Building on FreeBSD's reputation of quality, stability, and performance, > 3.0 introduces: > > o A new "CAM" (Common Access Method) SCSI subsystem which offers > improved performance, better error recovery and support for more > SCSI controllers. > > o Host ATM Research Platform ("HARP") software by > Network Computing Services, Inc. > > o SMP (Symmetric MultiProcessing) support added. o SMP (Symmetric MultiProcessing) support. > o Sun's WEBNFS standard is now supported. o Sun's WEBNFS standard. > o Improvements to the filesystem with Softupdates allows for > asynchronous speeds with sychronous safety. You'll have to delete this. It's not in the release: you can get the software, but you have to fulfil some conditions (in particular, if you're a commercial operation, it'll cost you money). > o The new default binary type (and compiler toolchain) has been switched > from a.out to ELF. from a.out to ELF. a.out object files are still completely supported. > o Async IO is implemented with additional support for kernel assisted > threads. Really? I missed this one. > o The introduction of the Coda Filesystem, an NFS replacemnt. > > o Hardware RAID support levels 0, 1 and 5. > > > "The FreeBSD 3.0 release is a significant milestone in our ongoing > develpoment process. It boasts major performance and security features > which strengthen FreeBSD's position as a premier server platform and > provides a solid foundation on which we will continue to build the 3.x > family of products." -- Mike Smith, FreeBSD Engineer > > The price for the standard 4 CDROM set from Walnut Creek is $39.95. The 4 > CDROM set with "The Complete FreeBSD" book is $69.95 > > FreeBSD may be downloaded free from the internet or purchased on 4 CD-ROMS > from Walnut Creek. For more information see http://www.freebsd.org. To > order the 4 CDROM set see http://www.cdrom.com. Apart from those minor nits, I think it's a pretty good PR. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 17:33:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09357 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 17:33:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA09350 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 17:33:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id UAA09342; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:32:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:32:31 -0500 (EST) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Greg Lehey cc: "David O'Brien" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where's the 3.0 press release? In-Reply-To: <19981026113325.E16609@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id RAA09351 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > Well, one reason might be that people on this list might have > suggestions for improvement. Well as stated below jordan had to be notified and clear it first so he wouldnt wig out about having his name and # attached to this first before I just pasted it everywhere :-) So after Brett T. cleared it with jordan I decided it would be ok to post it. > The more the merrier. True indeed. > agree with Brett that, for a PR, there should be no bullets. I agree > with you that, for Dæmon News, the bullets look OK. Thats why it was meant for BSD news only. So I didnt make the mods brett wanted there. But yes they should be removed if this warps into a PR for 2.2.8 or 3.1. > You can post most things here :-) Well I didnt right off the bat because it had jordans name and work # on it so it had to be cleared with him first. > No bang, please. > 3.0 UNIX operating system. FreeBSD is the fast, powerful, operating > system derived from 4.4BSD UNIX. > o SMP (Symmetric MultiProcessing) support. > o Sun's WEBNFS standard. > You'll have to delete this. It's not in the release: you can get the > software, but you have to fulfil some conditions (in particular, if > you're a commercial operation, it'll cost you money). > from a.out to ELF. a.out object files are still completely supported. I will submit a revised copy noting the above to brett taylor pronto! Thanks for the feedback! Chris -- "You both seem to be ignoring the fact that the networking market is driven by so-called 'IT professionals' these days, most of whom can't tell the difference between an ARP and a carp." --Wes Peters ===================================| Open Systems FreeBSD Consulting. FreeBSD 3.0 is available now! | Phone: (402)573-9124 / ICQ # 20016186 -----------------------------------| 3335 N. 103 Plaza, Omaha, NE 68134 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting, Network Engineering, Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 18:11:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12149 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:11:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12144 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:11:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul1.u.washington.edu (root@saul1.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.10]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id SAA14066; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:11:15 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id SAA32440; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:11:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:10:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: David Greenman cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix vs. NT In-Reply-To: <199810221929.MAA07455@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, David Greenman wrote: > This is lengthy, but interesting, and it mentions FreeBSD many times... > >http://kirch.net/unix-nt/ This is a bit of a late reply. You should revisit this sight. It will now point you to http://www.unix-vs-nt.org/. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 19:10:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16436 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:10:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16428 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:10:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id TAA34708 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:09:32 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id TAA26326 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:09:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:09:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Whistle Claims and Copyrights Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.whistle.com/products/prod-basicfaq.html#bsd They use BSD instead of free software? Gag!! I guess they are afraid to "come out of the closet." To be fair, they do meet the requirements of the Board of Regents copyright terms. Why doesn't FreeBSD add FreeBSD, Inc to the copyright? Certainly /usr/src contains copyrightable contributions by FreeBSD. A statement in the copyright requiring... 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software must display the following acknowledgement: This product includes software developed by the University of California, Berkeley and its contributors and FreeBSD Inc. and it's contributors. ...would seem wholly appropriate. The BSD license does not seem to preclude such a statement. Do we not do this to prevent scaring away customers like Whistle who are unwilling to advertise that they use free software? Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 20:22:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23982 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:22:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23977 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:22:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) id UAA16897; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:22:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981025202200.B14664@best.com> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:22:00 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Re: Whistle Claims and Copyrights References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 07:09:18PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 07:09:18PM -0800, "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > http://www.whistle.com/products/prod-basicfaq.html#bsd > > They use BSD instead of free software? Gag!! I guess they are afraid to > "come out of the closet." Read below. > > To be fair, they do meet the requirements of the Board of Regents > copyright terms. > > Why doesn't FreeBSD add FreeBSD, Inc to the copyright? Certainly /usr/src > contains copyrightable contributions by FreeBSD. A statement in the > copyright requiring... > > 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software > must display the following acknowledgement: > > This product includes software developed by the University of > California, Berkeley and its contributors and FreeBSD Inc. and it's > contributors. > > ...would seem wholly appropriate. The BSD license does not seem to > preclude such a statement. > > Do we not do this to prevent scaring away customers like Whistle who are > unwilling to advertise that they use free software? > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message Ahh.. C'mon. Whistle has done SO MUCH for FreeBSD community it is simply not fair to blame them of something as small as this. If Whistle was "unwilling to advertise that they use free software", I am sure they wouldn't come to ORA's Open Source day and tell people that they do use FreeBSD. I personally heard Terry say this. Plus, I am sure this was done by Marketing, who had no idea that "Linux Unix" is no such thing and that having OS "in very little memory" is well.. uhm.. not very technical saying. If anything, I want to say to Whistle folks, it is Thanks, with capitol "T". Thanks for picking FreeBSD, Thanks for sending code you wrote and bugs and fixes you found back to FreeBSD. Thanks for creating another company at which we can point and say: "Look, they use FreeBSD". Thanks to Julian, Archie, Terry, David W., and many many others. -- Yan I don't have the password .... + Jan Koum But the path is chainlinked .. | Spelled Jan, pronounced Yan. There. So if you've got the time .... | Web: http://www.best.com/~jkb Set the tone to sync ......... + OS: http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 20:51:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA26826 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:51:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA26815 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul4.u.washington.edu (root@saul4.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.2]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id UAA27246; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:51:11 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id UAA23983; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:51:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:50:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: "Jan B. Koum " cc: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Re: Whistle Claims and Copyrights In-Reply-To: <19981025202200.B14664@best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: >On Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 07:09:18PM -0800, "Jason C. Wells" wrote: >> http://www.whistle.com/products/prod-basicfaq.html#bsd >> >> They use BSD instead of free software? Gag!! I guess they are afraid to >> "come out of the closet." >> >> To be fair, they do meet the requirements of the Board of Regents >> copyright terms. > Ahh.. C'mon. Whistle has done SO MUCH for FreeBSD community it is > simply not fair to blame them of something as small as this. No, no ,no. Oh dear. It was not my intent to "blame" them for anything. Hence the comment, "To be fair, they meet the license." They do. I did point out what I feel is a bit inconsistent. "BSD instead of free software" is inconsistent. I was mostly trying to raise the issue of FreeBSD writing itself into the copyright. This I claimed was "wholly appropriate" as FreeBSD has put it's own code into the source tree. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 20:54:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27273 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:54:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA27268 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 20:54:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4020.ime.net [209.90.195.30]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA03301; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:53:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981025234336.00a46540@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:46:24 -0500 To: "Jan B. Koum " , "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-advocacy From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Whistle Claims and Copyrights In-Reply-To: <19981025202200.B14664@best.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Whistle's technology appears to be very intuitive. Now while it'd be good PR to see a FreeBSD logo on their page or something, the sheer fact that they are using the software at all is something for the coders to feel warm and fuzzy about. That's just my opinion, but really, it looks like Whistle donated bug fixes and things like that. It's not like they took the code, ran off with it and called it their own. And at the same time, I will admit the unit looks really cool :-) I think I saw a place, maybe it was MSEN or somewhere like that, that sells these things and internet to small businesses. Anyway, that's my 2K's worth. At 08:22 PM 10/25/98 -0800, Jan B. Koum wrote: >On Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 07:09:18PM -0800, "Jason C. Wells" > wrote: >> http://www.whistle.com/products/prod-basicfaq.html#bsd >> >> They use BSD instead of free software? Gag!! I guess they are afraid to >> "come out of the closet." > > Read below. > >> >> To be fair, they do meet the requirements of the Board of Regents >> copyright terms. >> >> Why doesn't FreeBSD add FreeBSD, Inc to the copyright? Certainly /usr/src >> contains copyrightable contributions by FreeBSD. A statement in the >> copyright requiring... >> >> 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software >> must display the following acknowledgement: >> >> This product includes software developed by the University of >> California, Berkeley and its contributors and FreeBSD Inc. and it's >> contributors. >> >> ...would seem wholly appropriate. The BSD license does not seem to >> preclude such a statement. >> >> Do we not do this to prevent scaring away customers like Whistle who are >> unwilling to advertise that they use free software? >> >> Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering >> Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > Ahh.. C'mon. Whistle has done SO MUCH for FreeBSD community it is > simply not fair to blame them of something as small as this. > > If Whistle was "unwilling to advertise that they use free software", > I am sure they wouldn't come to ORA's Open Source day and tell > people that they do use FreeBSD. I personally heard Terry say this. > > Plus, I am sure this was done by Marketing, who had no idea that > "Linux Unix" is no such thing and that having OS "in very little > memory" is well.. uhm.. not very technical saying. > > If anything, I want to say to Whistle folks, it is Thanks, with > capitol "T". Thanks for picking FreeBSD, Thanks for sending code > you wrote and bugs and fixes you found back to FreeBSD. Thanks for > creating another company at which we can point and say: "Look, they > use FreeBSD". Thanks to Julian, Archie, Terry, David W., and many > many others. > >-- Yan > >I don't have the password .... + Jan Koum >But the path is chainlinked .. | Spelled Jan, pronounced Yan. There. >So if you've got the time .... | Web: http://www.best.com/~jkb >Set the tone to sync ......... + OS: http://www.FreeBSD.org > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 21:01:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28383 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:01:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28378 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:01:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) id VAA21769; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:00:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981025210028.A21162@best.com> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:00:28 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Re: Whistle Claims and Copyrights References: <19981025202200.B14664@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 08:50:57PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 08:50:57PM -0800, "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > >On Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 07:09:18PM -0800, "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > >> http://www.whistle.com/products/prod-basicfaq.html#bsd > >> > >> They use BSD instead of free software? Gag!! I guess they are afraid to > >> "come out of the closet." > >> > >> To be fair, they do meet the requirements of the Board of Regents > >> copyright terms. > > > Ahh.. C'mon. Whistle has done SO MUCH for FreeBSD community it is > > simply not fair to blame them of something as small as this. > > No, no ,no. Oh dear. It was not my intent to "blame" them for anything. > Hence the comment, "To be fair, they meet the license." They do. I did > point out what I feel is a bit inconsistent. "BSD instead of free > software" is inconsistent. It should have gone to someone @whistle.com then instead of public list, especially one like this. Most of stuff started on advocacy ends up in an argument. :) > > I was mostly trying to raise the issue of FreeBSD writing itself into the > copyright. This I claimed was "wholly appropriate" as FreeBSD has put it's > own code into the source tree. Bring this up with Jordan when he comes back to US. > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering No you won't. I run faster. *grin* > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > -- Yan I don't have the password .... + Jan Koum But the path is chainlinked .. | Spelled Jan, pronounced Yan. There. So if you've got the time .... | Web: http://www.best.com/~jkb Set the tone to sync ......... + OS: http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 21:59:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03787 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:59:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from chickenbean.ais-gwd.com (chickenbean.com [205.160.97.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03574; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:57:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from charlespeters@chickenbean.com) Received: from ci1000971-d.sptnbrg1.sc.home.com (ci1000971-d.sptnbrg1.sc.home.com [24.4.115.200]) by chickenbean.ais-gwd.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA02260; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:09:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from charlespeters@chickenbean.com) Reply-To: From: "Charles A. Peters" To: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:51:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be00a5$5e2d8d40$c8730418@ci1000971-d.sptnbrg1.sc.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 23:39:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12057 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:39:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12052 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:39:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul5.u.washington.edu (root@saul5.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.3]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id XAA50000 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:39:13 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id XAA05641 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:39:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:39:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Letter to Real Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just sent this to the folks at Real Audio. I hope they bite. -Jason Wells **** First I would like to say thank you for providing your RealAudio software to users of system other than Windows or Mac. There are growing numbers of people who are using alternative operating systems. I am a user of FreeBSD and have been pleased to use the 3.0 version of RealAudio for the last year. FreeBSD has just released version 3.0 of their operating system. Among the changes in this system is a switch to using the ELF binary format. I would like to request a port of your RealAudio Player software for FreeBSD 3.0. In addition, a port of the RealVideo player would be greatly appreciated by the FreeBSD community. The computing experience of people using alternative operating systems can be enhanced by having enticing applications such as RealPlayer available. There is a lot of excitement surrounding free unix as of late. I invite RealAudio to continue and strengthen it's role in this expanding segment of the computing world. Thank You, Jason Wells P.S. Please let me know if there is a better email address that I may send this request to. I would be glad to forward it to the appropriate party. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 25 23:41:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12298 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:41:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12293 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:41:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul6.u.washington.edu (root@saul6.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.1]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id XAA30384 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:40:54 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul6.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id XAA15993 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:40:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:40:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Dropping Jordan's Name Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is it appropriate to drop Jordan's name and email in advocacy letters so that respondents to those letters may contact our "Corporate Liaison"? Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 00:07:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15018 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:07:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA15013 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:07:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) id AAA11850; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:06:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981026000631.E8517@best.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:06:31 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Re: Dropping Jordan's Name References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 11:40:40PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 11:40:40PM -0800, "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > Is it appropriate to drop Jordan's name and email in advocacy letters > so that respondents to those letters may contact our "Corporate Liaison"? > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message Well.. yes and no. Yes because he might have info/advise for corporations which you or me dont' have. No is because he gets 10000 eMails a day (or is it more Jordan?) and might miss the mail from Oracle saying "what do we need to port?". You have to remember - FreeBSD is as much your OS as it is his. YOU can and should promote it. Don't be afraid to talk to corporations, ISPs, users, etc. Maybe you can answer their questions. Maybe they will like your attitude and decide to do something with/for FreeBSD. If you can't answer their questions or concerns, ask here and people on this list might help. I think what it comes down to is: "I want FreeBSD to have a driver for our Gigabit network card. Can you tell me who I talk to or put me in touch with the right people?" The above would be a "yes" I guess. "I just got FreeBSD and I need to know if it runs in DOS or do I need to upgrade to Windows?" This would be a "no" :) But I have a feeling you already knew this. -- Yan I don't have the password .... + Jan Koum But the path is chainlinked .. | Spelled Jan, pronounced Yan. There. So if you've got the time .... | Web: http://www.best.com/~jkb Set the tone to sync ......... + OS: http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 01:34:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA22395 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:34:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA22376; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:34:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from mercury (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id UAA31507; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:04:04 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Nov97-0404PM) id AA08040; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:04:04 +1030 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:04:03 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: WordPerfect 8 for Linux Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Corel have announced their intention to release a free Linux-native version of WP8, which they are calling a "personal version" and promise it won't be a knackered demo. See http://www.corel.com/news/1998/october/linux.htm for the press release. I suggest it would be a good thing for everyone who would be interested in seeing this work under FreeBSD to go to https://livewire.corel.com/cfscripts/Feedback_forms/feedback.htm and submit feedback politely asking them to consider a FreeBSD native port, or to endeavour that the Linux version is runnable under emulation. Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 01:42:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23110 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:42:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA23105 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:42:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from mercury (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id UAA31670; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:12:08 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Nov97-0404PM) id AA28261; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:12:08 +1030 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:12:08 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Open Systems Networking Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Promoting 3.0 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 23 Oct 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > Well im working on a PR right now for 3.0. Excellent! > We really need a list of contacts at the various on line pubs that take > PR's. NewsBytes is one to try for - they seem to be well-respected and have a large audience, and their headline stories often get picked up by other news services such as CNN (Online). I couldnt seem to find a "submissions" address on the website, but wendy@newsbytes.com is the chief editor, and publisher@newsbytes.com is the "Questions to the publisher" address (there are other less applicable addresses listed). Only problem I can see is that they may not take submissions from "ordinary people" - though if WC were to put their name to the PR I'm sure it'd be accepted. Good luck! Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 03:28:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28558 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 03:28:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk ([194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA28550 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 03:28:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (bamboo [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06850; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:18:17 GMT Message-ID: <36345A88.D02ACDFF@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:18:32 +0000 From: Stuart Henderson Organization: http://ints.ml.org/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Letter to Real References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > > I just sent this to the folks at Real Audio. I hope they bite. I asked them a while ago to add a note that the Linux version runs on FreeBSD, even if they also add that it's not supported, but nada :( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 11:59:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15390 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:59:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15381 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:59:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id LAA03353; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA07937; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:58:19 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id MAA26351; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:58:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3634D45A.6152BFC@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:58:18 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jan B. Koum" CC: "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Re: Whistle Claims and Copyrights References: <19981025202200.B14664@best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jan B. Koum" wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 07:09:18PM -0800, "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > > http://www.whistle.com/products/prod-basicfaq.html#bsd > > > > They use BSD instead of free software? Gag!! I guess they are afraid to > > "come out of the closet." > > Read below. Keep in mind that to many people, probably including the marketroids at Whistle, "free software" means "GPL'd software." By the definitions of RMS, FreeBSD is indeed NOT free software, but it certainly is Open Source software. Even Snark has relented on that point, foaming-at-the- mouth-rabid Linux promoter that he is. > > To be fair, they do meet the requirements of the Board of Regents > > copyright terms. > > > > Why doesn't FreeBSD add FreeBSD, Inc to the copyright? Certainly /usr/src > > contains copyrightable contributions by FreeBSD. A statement in the > > copyright requiring... This is a darn good idea, although I would word it a bit differently. We certainly should consider doing this, although it would be a big, ugly thing to do to the CVS tree... > > Ahh.. C'mon. Whistle has done SO MUCH for FreeBSD community it is > simply not fair to blame them of something as small as this. > > If Whistle was "unwilling to advertise that they use free software", > I am sure they wouldn't come to ORA's Open Source day and tell > people that they do use FreeBSD. I personally heard Terry say this. I strongly doubt including a FreeBSD copyright in literature, boot messages, etc. would change Whistle's feelings about FreeBSD one iota. > Plus, I am sure this was done by Marketing, who had no idea that > "Linux Unix" is no such thing and that having OS "in very little > memory" is well.. uhm.. not very technical saying. Well, marketroids, what can you say? They were doing their best to explain that BSD systems are better than Linux for making cool little router/server machines. > If anything, I want to say to Whistle folks, it is Thanks, with > capitol "T". Thanks for picking FreeBSD, Thanks for sending code > you wrote and bugs and fixes you found back to FreeBSD. Thanks for > creating another company at which we can point and say: "Look, they > use FreeBSD". Thanks to Julian, Archie, Terry, David W., and many > many others. And to the "powers that be" at Whistle for having the courage and foresight to bank their fortunes on the ability of Julian, Archie, Terry, David W., et al to make this technology profitable. You'll be reading a bit more about Whistle and similar uses of BSD systems in the November Daemon's Advocate. Please stop by and take a look. http://www.daemonnews.org/ ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 14:01:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27909 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:01:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27901 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:01:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id OAA13226; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:00:58 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id OAA28634; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:00:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:00:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Wes Peters cc: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Re: Whistle Claims and Copyrights In-Reply-To: <3634D45A.6152BFC@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: *** snip *** A lot of stuff. Thanks for the input. We will see if jkh has an upshot on this when he returns. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 15:19:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05912 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:19:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05905 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:19:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24208; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:18:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd024186; Mon Oct 26 16:18:49 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA26150; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:18:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810262318.QAA26150@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Whistle Claims and Copyrights To: jcwells@u.washington.edu Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:18:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jason C. Wells" at Oct 25, 98 07:09:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > http://www.whistle.com/products/prod-basicfaq.html#bsd > > They use BSD instead of free software? Gag!! I guess they are afraid to > "come out of the closet." The marketroids strike again. I have notified them of the error of their ways, and in twisty methods of such creatures, expect it to be updated some time before ASCII is no longer standard... See also: http://www.whistle.com/company/employment/employ-eng.html#Senior Operating Systems We *are* aware we are using FreeBSD. See also: http://opensource.whistle.com Which you can also get to by going to http://www.whistle.com, clicking on "About Whistle", and clicking on "Click here to learn about Whistle's Commitment to Open Source". > 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software > must display the following acknowledgement: > > This product includes software developed by the University of > California, Berkeley and its contributors and FreeBSD Inc. and it's > contributors. > > ...would seem wholly appropriate. The BSD license does not seem to > preclude such a statement. > > Do we not do this to prevent scaring away customers like Whistle who are > unwilling to advertise that they use free software? It wouldn't scare us; we generally give credit where due, but being an embedded system, there is very little exposed except our UI, so the credit statements are pretty low-key so as to not constitute endorsement of our product. I'm not the official spokesperson, of course, so if you have any more questions, you should hit the email contacts for the respective departments, on our www site. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 15:22:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06281 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:22:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06272 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:22:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17350; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Re: Dropping Jordan's Name In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:40:40 PST." Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:21:59 -0800 Message-ID: <17346.909444119@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is it appropriate to drop Jordan's name and email in advocacy letters > so that respondents to those letters may contact our "Corporate Liaison"? Just so long as you first seek and obtain my prior approval for any and all such "droppings", sure. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 18:23:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25552 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:23:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25547 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:23:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul6.u.washington.edu (root@saul6.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.1]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id SAA19442; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:22:26 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul6.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id SAA07181; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:22:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:22:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Re: Dropping Jordan's Name In-Reply-To: <17346.909444119@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Is it appropriate to drop Jordan's name and email in advocacy letters >> so that respondents to those letters may contact our "Corporate Liaison"? > >Just so long as you first seek and obtain my prior approval for any >and all such "droppings", sure. :-) This is what I wanted to know. I had thought of dropping your name to the RealAudio people, but considered that it might be invasive to do so. Thanks. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 18:32:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26290 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:32:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26285 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:32:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18392; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:32:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Re: Whistle Claims and Copyrights In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:09:18 PST." Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:32:01 -0800 Message-ID: <18388.909455521@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Why doesn't FreeBSD add FreeBSD, Inc to the copyright? Certainly /usr/src > contains copyrightable contributions by FreeBSD. A statement in the > copyright requiring... > > 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software > must display the following acknowledgement: Because we don't like clauses 3 and 4 and have removed them from the FreeBSD Project version, the BSD license being something we'd prefer to leave as unmodified as possible. > ...would seem wholly appropriate. The BSD license does not seem to > preclude such a statement. No, but it's not something we'd want to force on anyone in any case. If somebody wants to call their derived product "FrobOS" and not credit FreeBSD at all, fine. If they want to catch some of the free software buzz and get our more immediate help, they can also openly use FreeBSD. It's their choice. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 18:48:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27779 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:48:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27768 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:48:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA12342; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:17:58 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id NAA22963; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:17:45 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:17:45 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8 for Linux References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 08:04:03PM +1030 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 26 October 1998 at 20:04:03 +1030, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Corel have announced their intention to release a free Linux-native version of > WP8, which they are calling a "personal version" and promise it won't be a > knackered demo. See http://www.corel.com/news/1998/october/linux.htm for the > press release. > > I suggest it would be a good thing for everyone who would be interested in > seeing this work under FreeBSD to go to > > https://livewire.corel.com/cfscripts/Feedback_forms/feedback.htm > > and submit feedback politely asking them to consider a FreeBSD native port, or > to endeavour that the Linux version is runnable under emulation. Why do that? The Linux version should work, and if people get the impression that the Linux port is just the tip of the iceberg, they might decide not to do it again. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 19:04:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29824 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:04:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29814 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:04:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul6.u.washington.edu (root@saul6.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.1]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id TAA39094 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:03:45 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul6.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id TAA20983 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:03:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:03:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Re: Whistle Claims and Copyrights In-Reply-To: <18388.909455521@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Why doesn't FreeBSD add FreeBSD, Inc to the copyright? Certainly /usr/src >> contains copyrightable contributions by FreeBSD. A statement in the >> copyright requiring... >> >> 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software >> must display the following acknowledgement: > >Because we don't like clauses 3 and 4 and have removed them from the >FreeBSD Project version, the BSD license being something we'd prefer >to leave as unmodified as possible. > >> ...would seem wholly appropriate. The BSD license does not seem to >> preclude such a statement. > >No, but it's not something we'd want to force on anyone in any case. >If somebody wants to call their derived product "FrobOS" and not >credit FreeBSD at all, fine. If they want to catch some of the free >software buzz and get our more immediate help, they can also openly >use FreeBSD. It's their choice. *** jkh cc trimmed due to Holland trip. Fair enough. Any licensing scheme involves consideration of a large number of factors. The addition of FreeBSD as a right holder seemed reasonable to my mind. It is apparent that FreeBSD continues to maintain the absolute minimum restrictions, making FreeBSD a truly free(dom) system. I did not realize who Mr. Lambert was or that he reads this forum until today. I had heard of Whistle's support of open source previously but have learned much more recently. It is nice to see that Terry was receptive to my comments. It was even nicer that he agreed that the "BSD not free software" comment needed work. I would conclude this thread by saying that this whole discussion is testimony to the benefits of free software and the synergy that free and commercial software can produce. FreeBSD is still the single best "purchase" that I have ever made. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 20:07:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05745 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:07:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05735 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:07:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from mercury (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA04912; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:36:24 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Nov97-0404PM) id AA09871; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:36:23 +1030 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:36:23 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Greg Lehey Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8 for Linux In-Reply-To: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Monday, 26 October 1998 at 20:04:03 +1030, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > Corel have announced their intention to release a free Linux-native version of > > WP8, which they are calling a "personal version" and promise it won't be a > > knackered demo. See http://www.corel.com/news/1998/october/linux.htm for the > > press release. > > > > I suggest it would be a good thing for everyone who would be interested in > > seeing this work under FreeBSD to go to > > > > https://livewire.corel.com/cfscripts/Feedback_forms/feedback.htm > > > > and submit feedback politely asking them to consider a FreeBSD native port, or > > to endeavour that the Linux version is runnable under emulation. > > Why do that? Because it increases the visibility of FreeBSD among people who might not have heard about it (the Corel developers), and just might influence their thinking towards future product decisions. Assume enough of a response was received that the Corel guys sat up and thought "Wow, theres a market segment we can service", and decide to release a native version of WP8. Are you saying that would be a bad thing? > The Linux version should work, and if people get the > impression that the Linux port is just the tip of the iceberg, they > might decide not to do it again. I didnt understand this bit. Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 20:14:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06388 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:14:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06380 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:14:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4037.ime.net [209.90.195.47]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA16851; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:13:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981026231058.009a5ee0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:12:16 -0500 To: Kris Kennaway , Greg Lehey From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8 for Linux Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I get the tip of the iceberg thing. Right now Corel is experimenting by porting to Linux. If we bombard them with "Hey port it to...." then that would not be very fair to them yet. Especially if the Linux version will work under FreeBSD in emulation. That's what I got out of it, maybe I'm off? At 02:36 PM 10/27/98 +1030, Kris Kennaway wrote: >On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Monday, 26 October 1998 at 20:04:03 +1030, Kris Kennaway wrote: >> > Corel have announced their intention to release a free Linux-native >version of >> > WP8, which they are calling a "personal version" and promise it won't be a >> > knackered demo. See http://www.corel.com/news/1998/october/linux.htm for >the >> > press release. >> > >> > I suggest it would be a good thing for everyone who would be interested in >> > seeing this work under FreeBSD to go to >> > >> > https://livewire.corel.com/cfscripts/Feedback_forms/feedback.htm >> > >> > and submit feedback politely asking them to consider a FreeBSD native >port, or >> > to endeavour that the Linux version is runnable under emulation. >> >> Why do that? > >Because it increases the visibility of FreeBSD among people who might not have >heard about it (the Corel developers), and just might influence their thinking >towards future product decisions. > >Assume enough of a response was received that the Corel guys sat up and >thought "Wow, theres a market segment we can service", and decide to release a >native version of WP8. Are you saying that would be a bad thing? > >> The Linux version should work, and if people get the >> impression that the Linux port is just the tip of the iceberg, they >> might decide not to do it again. > >I didnt understand this bit. > >Kris > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 21:47:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12701 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:47:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12692 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:47:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA12838; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:16:57 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA23200; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:16:54 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981027161654.S20920@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:16:54 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Drew Baxter , Kris Kennaway Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8 for Linux References: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981026231058.009a5ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981026231058.009a5ee0@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 11:12:16PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Format autorecovered at freebie.lemis.com] On Monday, 26 October 1998 at 23:12:16 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 02:36 PM 10/27/98 +1030, Kris Kennaway wrote: >> On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >>> On Monday, 26 October 1998 at 20:04:03 +1030, Kris Kennaway wrote: >>>> Corel have announced their intention to release a free >>>> Linux-native version of WP8, which they are calling a "personal >>>> version" and promise it won't be a knackered demo. See >>>> http://www.corel.com/news/1998/october/linux.htm for the press >>>> release. >>>> >>>> I suggest it would be a good thing for everyone who would be interested in >>>> seeing this work under FreeBSD to go to >>>> >>>> https://livewire.corel.com/cfscripts/Feedback_forms/feedback.htm >>>> >>>> and submit feedback politely asking them to consider a FreeBSD >>>> native port, or to endeavour that the Linux version is runnable >>>> under emulation. >>> >>> Why do that? >> >> Because it increases the visibility of FreeBSD among people who might not have >> heard about it (the Corel developers), and just might influence their thinking >> towards future product decisions. >> >> Assume enough of a response was received that the Corel guys sat up and >> thought "Wow, theres a market segment we can service", and decide to release a >> native version of WP8. Are you saying that would be a bad thing? If they decided that, it would be fine. I was once in this business with a much larger company, and we found we couldn't get the big database people to take us seriously. They just saw us as more work, not more income. They'll definitely do the same with any free UNIX ("what, they have a free OS and we expect them to pay for our product? No way"). >>> The Linux version should work, and if people get the >>> impression that the Linux port is just the tip of the iceberg, they >>> might decide not to do it again. >> >> I didnt understand this bit. > > I get the tip of the iceberg thing. Right now Corel is experimenting by > porting to Linux. If we bombard them with "Hey port it to...." then that > would not be very fair to them yet. Especially if the Linux version will > work under FreeBSD in emulation. > > That's what I got out of it, maybe I'm off? No, that's right. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 21:49:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12912 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:49:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12899 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:49:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from mercury (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id QAA05755; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:19:00 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Nov97-0404PM) id AA08291; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:18:59 +1030 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:18:58 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Drew Baxter Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8 for Linux In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981026231058.009a5ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > I get the tip of the iceberg thing. Right now Corel is experimenting by > porting to Linux. If we bombard them with "Hey port it to...." then that > would not be very fair to them yet. Especially if the Linux version will > work under FreeBSD in emulation. Ah, okay. I see your point, but I think responses which are politely worded and courteous (i.e. not "You idiots, linux sucks, you should be porting to freebsd!!!". Religious zealotry WILL scare people off), thank them for their decision to support the free software community (companies supporting linux /do/ help freebsd by association as a fellow open source OS, esp. if they're binary-compatible), etc, and happen to mention that FreeBSD is a potential market they can look into, will have a positive effect. Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 22:15:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14787 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:15:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14780 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:15:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (wes@zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04022; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:13:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36356495.662FBE13@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:13:41 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter CC: Kris Kennaway , Greg Lehey , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8 for Linux References: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981026231058.009a5ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey opined: % The Linux version should work, and if people get the % impression that the Linux port is just the tip of the iceberg, they % might decide not to do it again. Kris Kennaway wrote: # I didnt understand this bit. Drew Baxter wrote: > > I get the tip of the iceberg thing. Right now Corel is experimenting by > porting to Linux. If we bombard them with "Hey port it to...." then that > would not be very fair to them yet. Especially if the Linux version will > work under FreeBSD in emulation. Not to mention the support hours, etc., required to support yet another UNIX version. Remember, this is what scares many software vendors away from UNIX in the first place. I'd like to point out this is yet another opportunity for a home-grown, "Works with FreeBSD" branding program where WE do all the work and the vendors get to stick things on their web pages and software because WE said they work with FreeBSD. It's a simple idea, really. We find application XXX, developed for Linux, or SCO, or any other operating system we emulate well. Several different people, with different hardware, test it on FreeBSD x.y. If the general consensus is that it's useful and relatively bugfree vis- a-vis FreeBSD x.y, we put this info on a web page. We then contact the vendor and tell them "We've tested this and it works well with FreeBSD under emulation. If you put this logo, with a link to our web page reporting our testing, on your web site, we'll put a link to your web site in our commercial vendors page. We'll also list your initial compatibility in a column in Daemon News, and give you ad space there as well." We're offering them free advertising and a one-million- strong user base in return for no work and a compatibility logo. I'm up for testing Corel; can we get a logo designed? I don't think we need a lot of formal setup for this, perhaps just someone who can maintain the web page. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 26 22:20:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15390 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:20:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15368 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:20:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA12934; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:49:41 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA23374; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:49:29 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981027164929.T20920@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:49:29 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters , Drew Baxter Cc: Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981026231058.009a5ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <36356495.662FBE13@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <36356495.662FBE13@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 11:13:41PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 26 October 1998 at 23:13:41 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Greg Lehey opined: >> The Linux version should work, and if people get the >> impression that the Linux port is just the tip of the iceberg, they >> might decide not to do it again. > > Kris Kennaway wrote: > # I didnt understand this bit. > > Drew Baxter wrote: >> >> I get the tip of the iceberg thing. Right now Corel is experimenting by >> porting to Linux. If we bombard them with "Hey port it to...." then that >> would not be very fair to them yet. Especially if the Linux version will >> work under FreeBSD in emulation. > > Not to mention the support hours, etc., required to support yet another > UNIX version. Remember, this is what scares many software vendors away > from UNIX in the first place. Exactly. > I'd like to point out this is yet another opportunity for a home-grown, > "Works with FreeBSD" branding program where WE do all the work and the > vendors get to stick things on their web pages and software because > WE said they work with FreeBSD. > > It's a simple idea, really. We find application XXX, developed for > Linux, or SCO, or any other operating system we emulate well. Or even those we don't emulate so well :-) > Several different people, with different hardware, test it on > FreeBSD x.y. If the general consensus is that it's useful and > relatively bugfree vis-a-vis FreeBSD x.y, we put this info on a web > page. We then contact the vendor and tell them "We've tested this > and it works well with FreeBSD under emulation. If you put this > logo, with a link to our web page reporting our testing, on your web > site, we'll put a link to your web site in our commercial vendors > page. We'll also list your initial compatibility in a column in > Daemon News, and give you ad space there as well." We're offering > them free advertising and a one-million-strong user base in return > for no work and a compatibility logo. > > I'm up for testing Corel; can we get a logo designed? I don't think > we need a lot of formal setup for this, perhaps just someone who can > maintain the web page. EXCELLENT idea! Yes, we should do this. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 05:10:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16286 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:10:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (intschool.easynet.co.uk [194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA16277 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:10:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (bamboo [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26493; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:03:23 GMT Message-ID: <3635C4AF.F50DA6F8@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:03:43 +0000 From: Stuart Henderson Organization: http://ints.ml.org/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: Drew Baxter , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8 for Linux References: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981026231058.009a5ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <19981027161654.S20920@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > not more income. They'll definitely do the same with any free UNIX > ("what, they have a free OS and we expect them to pay for our product? > No way"). Good job the personal version is going to be free then :) Possibly that's done to help with the debugging before they shrinkwrap it and sell a commercial version and to get more people using Linux in preparation for the ports of the rest of their office suite? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 05:17:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16777 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:17:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA16771 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:17:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (wes@zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04534; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:16:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3635C799.A1998CDE@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:16:09 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: Drew Baxter , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981026231058.009a5ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <36356495.662FBE13@softweyr.com> <19981027164929.T20920@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > I'd like to point out this is yet another opportunity for a home-grown, > "Works with FreeBSD" branding program where WE do all the work and the > vendors get to stick things on their web pages and software because > WE said they work with FreeBSD. > > It's a simple idea, really. We find application XXX, developed for > Linux, or SCO, or any other operating system we emulate well. Greg Lehey replied: % Or even those we don't emulate so well :-) As long as the app works well, I guess it doesn't matter, huh? ;^) > Several different people, with different hardware, test it on > FreeBSD x.y. If the general consensus is that it's useful and > relatively bugfree vis-a-vis FreeBSD x.y, we put this info on a web > page. We then contact the vendor and tell them "We've tested this > and it works well with FreeBSD under emulation. If you put this > logo, with a link to our web page reporting our testing, on your web > site, we'll put a link to your web site in our commercial vendors > page. We'll also list your initial compatibility in a column in > Daemon News, and give you ad space there as well." We're offering > them free advertising and a one-million-strong user base in return > for no work and a compatibility logo. > > I'm up for testing Corel; can we get a logo designed? I don't think > we need a lot of formal setup for this, perhaps just someone who can > maintain the web page. % EXCELLENT idea! Yes, we should do this. I'm glad you think so. I'd mentioned this idea a couple of times before, in this mailing list, and nobody even bothered to tell me I'm stupid, let alone agree. I was beginning to feel like I was shouting into a vacuum. I think this is an excellent way to piggy-back on the Linux movement, and to make a number of companies more aware of FreeBSD. And to think they get all this... for free! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 10:39:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11953 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:39:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11941 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:38:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4019.ime.net [209.90.195.29]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA22543; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:38:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981027133408.00a64c60@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:37:00 -0500 To: Kris Kennaway From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8 for Linux Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981026231058.009a5ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Certainly, but I'm imagining people are saying "How about us Solaris users??" and "huh huh, come on, port it to SCO!".. The other thing is, while Alternative OS (Namely that of the Free UNIX Variety) is on the move, Linux is the most talked about in the media regarding competition to Windows. I think that may have an influence on Corel trying to jump into the market. After all, I don't see Microsoft Office being ported to Linux or anything other than Windows (and Mac). Macintosh isn't even competition (Microsoft holds 150 Mill in Apple stock?), but Linux is competition in the X86 game. But yeah, a little blurb couldn't hurt. But the problem is, how much is too much bombardment? :) At 04:18 PM 10/27/98 +1030, Kris Kennaway wrote: >On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > >> I get the tip of the iceberg thing. Right now Corel is experimenting by >> porting to Linux. If we bombard them with "Hey port it to...." then that >> would not be very fair to them yet. Especially if the Linux version will >> work under FreeBSD in emulation. > >Ah, okay. I see your point, but I think responses which are politely worded >and courteous (i.e. not "You idiots, linux sucks, you should be porting to >freebsd!!!". Religious zealotry WILL scare people off), thank them for their >decision to support the free software community (companies supporting linux >/do/ help freebsd by association as a fellow open source OS, esp. if they're >binary-compatible), etc, and happen to mention that FreeBSD is a potential >market they can look into, will have a positive effect. > >Kris > --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 10:42:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12274 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:42:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12269 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:42:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4019.ime.net [209.90.195.29]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA23341; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:41:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981027133735.00afe460@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:40:05 -0500 To: Wes Peters From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8 for Linux Cc: Kris Kennaway , Greg Lehey , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36356495.662FBE13@softweyr.com> References: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981026231058.009a5ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yknow, I like your idea, Wes... A "Works with FreeBSD" logo of some sort would be a good idea for software that doesn't blatantly say on it "FreeBSD". At the same time, it'd be valid to put on things like that too, after all, Known Windows programs still have a "Designed for Windows 95" logo on it.. I wasn't clear on if Corel was really going to support the Linux version or not. As it goes, Support via EMAIL is not very tedious (maybe 10 people could push through 500 support questions), but when it comes to phone support, that's another story. At 11:13 PM 10/26/98 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: >Greg Lehey opined: >% The Linux version should work, and if people get the >% impression that the Linux port is just the tip of the iceberg, they >% might decide not to do it again. > >Kris Kennaway wrote: ># I didnt understand this bit. > >Drew Baxter wrote: >> >> I get the tip of the iceberg thing. Right now Corel is experimenting by >> porting to Linux. If we bombard them with "Hey port it to...." then that >> would not be very fair to them yet. Especially if the Linux version will >> work under FreeBSD in emulation. > >Not to mention the support hours, etc., required to support yet another >UNIX version. Remember, this is what scares many software vendors away >from UNIX in the first place. > >I'd like to point out this is yet another opportunity for a home-grown, >"Works with FreeBSD" branding program where WE do all the work and the >vendors get to stick things on their web pages and software because >WE said they work with FreeBSD. > >It's a simple idea, really. We find application XXX, developed for >Linux, or SCO, or any other operating system we emulate well. Several >different people, with different hardware, test it on FreeBSD x.y. If >the general consensus is that it's useful and relatively bugfree vis- >a-vis FreeBSD x.y, we put this info on a web page. We then contact >the vendor and tell them "We've tested this and it works well with >FreeBSD under emulation. If you put this logo, with a link to our >web page reporting our testing, on your web site, we'll put a link >to your web site in our commercial vendors page. We'll also list your >initial compatibility in a column in Daemon News, and give you ad space >there as well." We're offering them free advertising and a one-million- >strong user base in return for no work and a compatibility logo. > >I'm up for testing Corel; can we get a logo designed? I don't think >we need a lot of formal setup for this, perhaps just someone who can >maintain the web page. > >-- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > >Wes Peters Softweyr LLC >http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 14:19:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01232 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:19:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01217 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:19:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29419; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:18:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd029394; Tue Oct 27 15:18:24 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09099; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:18:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810272218.PAA09099@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:18:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3635C799.A1998CDE@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at Oct 27, 98 06:16:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm up for testing Corel; can we get a logo designed? I don't think > > we need a lot of formal setup for this, perhaps just someone who can > > maintain the web page. > > % EXCELLENT idea! Yes, we should do this. > > I'm glad you think so. I'd mentioned this idea a couple of times > before, in this mailing list, and nobody even bothered to tell me > I'm stupid, let alone agree. I was beginning to feel like I was > shouting into a vacuum. I have an issue with the install process, and with "brandelf". I think this should be done transparently. I suspect this means providing a FreeBSD installer for the product, and trying to convince them to ship the installer with their software (most desirable), or provide it on their site (less desirable, since the program won't install "out of the box" that way). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 14:44:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04339 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:44:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04310 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:44:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA15285; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:13:53 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA25037; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:13:47 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981028091347.W20920@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:13:47 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert , Wes Peters Cc: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <3635C799.A1998CDE@softweyr.com> <199810272218.PAA09099@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810272218.PAA09099@usr04.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Tue, Oct 27, 1998 at 10:18:21PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 27 October 1998 at 22:18:21 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> I'm up for testing Corel; can we get a logo designed? I don't think >>> we need a lot of formal setup for this, perhaps just someone who can >>> maintain the web page. >> >>> EXCELLENT idea! Yes, we should do this. >> >> I'm glad you think so. I'd mentioned this idea a couple of times >> before, in this mailing list, and nobody even bothered to tell me >> I'm stupid, let alone agree. I was beginning to feel like I was >> shouting into a vacuum. > > I have an issue with the install process, and with "brandelf". I > think this should be done transparently. > > I suspect this means providing a FreeBSD installer for the product, > and trying to convince them to ship the installer with their > software (most desirable), or provide it on their site (less > desirable, since the program won't install "out of the box" > that way). Good point. This would also include documentation on how to install for FreeBSD, as well as any special things needed ("In order to run YoyoFloop on your FreeBSD system, you must have installed the Linux emulator"). But I don't think it should be a condition of certification ("Certified at class 2 for use with FreeBSD" :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 14:56:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06168 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:56:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06124 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:56:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4019.ime.net [209.90.195.29]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA29546; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:55:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981027175051.00ae3450@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:53:09 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , Terry Lambert , Wes Peters From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) Cc: kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981028091347.W20920@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199810272218.PAA09099@usr04.primenet.com> <3635C799.A1998CDE@softweyr.com> <199810272218.PAA09099@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well one of the good things is, you could place the linux emulator onto the install media (if it was cd anyway) or any required software, namely the version that was the most recent (and known to work) with the product. What would be kinda cool would be a webboard (users helping users, or something like that) to take load off of the support services. At the same time, this would promote new products by adding them to the list (Oh I didn't know Quattro Pro was for FreeBSD! kinda thing).. At 09:13 AM 10/28/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Tuesday, 27 October 1998 at 22:18:21 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>>> I'm up for testing Corel; can we get a logo designed? I don't think >>>> we need a lot of formal setup for this, perhaps just someone who can >>>> maintain the web page. >>> >>>> EXCELLENT idea! Yes, we should do this. >>> >>> I'm glad you think so. I'd mentioned this idea a couple of times >>> before, in this mailing list, and nobody even bothered to tell me >>> I'm stupid, let alone agree. I was beginning to feel like I was >>> shouting into a vacuum. >> >> I have an issue with the install process, and with "brandelf". I >> think this should be done transparently. >> >> I suspect this means providing a FreeBSD installer for the product, >> and trying to convince them to ship the installer with their >> software (most desirable), or provide it on their site (less >> desirable, since the program won't install "out of the box" >> that way). > >Good point. This would also include documentation on how to install >for FreeBSD, as well as any special things needed ("In order to run >YoyoFloop on your FreeBSD system, you must have installed the Linux >emulator"). But I don't think it should be a condition of >certification ("Certified at class 2 for use with FreeBSD" :-) > >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 14:59:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06842 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06816 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:59:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA15341; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:28:59 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA25078; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:28:47 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981028092847.A20920@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:28:47 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Drew Baxter , Terry Lambert , Wes Peters Cc: kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <199810272218.PAA09099@usr04.primenet.com> <3635C799.A1998CDE@softweyr.com> <199810272218.PAA09099@usr04.primenet.com> <19981028091347.W20920@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981027175051.00ae3450@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981027175051.00ae3450@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Tue, Oct 27, 1998 at 05:53:09PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 27 October 1998 at 17:53:09 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 09:13 AM 10/28/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Tuesday, 27 October 1998 at 22:18:21 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>>>> I'm up for testing Corel; can we get a logo designed? I don't think >>>>> we need a lot of formal setup for this, perhaps just someone who can >>>>> maintain the web page. >>>> >>>>> EXCELLENT idea! Yes, we should do this. >>>> >>>> I'm glad you think so. I'd mentioned this idea a couple of times >>>> before, in this mailing list, and nobody even bothered to tell me >>>> I'm stupid, let alone agree. I was beginning to feel like I was >>>> shouting into a vacuum. >>> >>> I have an issue with the install process, and with "brandelf". I >>> think this should be done transparently. >>> >>> I suspect this means providing a FreeBSD installer for the product, >>> and trying to convince them to ship the installer with their >>> software (most desirable), or provide it on their site (less >>> desirable, since the program won't install "out of the box" >>> that way). >> >> Good point. This would also include documentation on how to install >> for FreeBSD, as well as any special things needed ("In order to run >> YoyoFloop on your FreeBSD system, you must have installed the Linux >> emulator"). But I don't think it should be a condition of >> certification ("Certified at class 2 for use with FreeBSD" :-) > > Well one of the good things is, you could place the linux emulator onto the > install media (if it was cd anyway) or any required software, namely the > version that was the most recent (and known to work) with the product. Yes, but is it known to work with the (unknown) version of FreeBSD the user is running? I think this is probably a bad idea; a better one would be an installer that checks for the presence of the emulator and tells the user what to do if it can't fix it itself. For example, if it finds the emulator lkm, it could load it; if it can't find the lkm, it can check for the sources and compile it; if it can't find that, it can check if there's a net connection to FreeBSD.org; if there isn't, it gives up. > What would be kinda cool would be a webboard (users helping users, or > something like that) to take load off of the support services. At the same > time, this would promote new products by adding them to the list (Oh I > didn't know Quattro Pro was for FreeBSD! kinda thing).. Well, yes, Wes suggested a web site in the original message of this subthread. Are you thinking of more? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 15:13:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08868 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:13:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08857 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:13:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4019.ime.net [209.90.195.29]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA04230; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:11:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981027180342.00afbf10@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:09:19 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , Terry Lambert , Wes Peters From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) Cc: kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981028092847.A20920@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.1.19981027175051.00ae3450@genesis.ispace.com> <199810272218.PAA09099@usr04.primenet.com> <3635C799.A1998CDE@softweyr.com> <199810272218.PAA09099@usr04.primenet.com> <19981028091347.W20920@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981027175051.00ae3450@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:28 AM 10/28/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Tuesday, 27 October 1998 at 17:53:09 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >> At 09:13 AM 10/28/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> On Tuesday, 27 October 1998 at 22:18:21 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>>>>> I'm up for testing Corel; can we get a logo designed? I don't think >>>>>> we need a lot of formal setup for this, perhaps just someone who can >>>>>> maintain the web page. >>>>> >>>>>> EXCELLENT idea! Yes, we should do this. >>>>> >>>>> I'm glad you think so. I'd mentioned this idea a couple of times >>>>> before, in this mailing list, and nobody even bothered to tell me >>>>> I'm stupid, let alone agree. I was beginning to feel like I was >>>>> shouting into a vacuum. >>>> >>>> I have an issue with the install process, and with "brandelf". I >>>> think this should be done transparently. >>>> >>>> I suspect this means providing a FreeBSD installer for the product, >>>> and trying to convince them to ship the installer with their >>>> software (most desirable), or provide it on their site (less >>>> desirable, since the program won't install "out of the box" >>>> that way). >>> >>> Good point. This would also include documentation on how to install >>> for FreeBSD, as well as any special things needed ("In order to run >>> YoyoFloop on your FreeBSD system, you must have installed the Linux >>> emulator"). But I don't think it should be a condition of >>> certification ("Certified at class 2 for use with FreeBSD" :-) >> >> Well one of the good things is, you could place the linux emulator onto the >> install media (if it was cd anyway) or any required software, namely the >> version that was the most recent (and known to work) with the product. > >Yes, but is it known to work with the (unknown) version of FreeBSD the >user is running? I think this is probably a bad idea; a better one >would be an installer that checks for the presence of the emulator and >tells the user what to do if it can't fix it itself. For example, if >it finds the emulator lkm, it could load it; if it can't find the lkm, >it can check for the sources and compile it; if it can't find that, it >can check if there's a net connection to FreeBSD.org; if there isn't, >it gives up. Yeah that'd work too. The only reason why I brought up the whole required software issue, is because of people (such as me) that are using a laptop running FreeBSD, or another type of equipment that has no network connection. While my primary box does (and it runs incredibly well, but I've been through that), my laptop hasn't seen a net connection since the initial installation. > >> What would be kinda cool would be a webboard (users helping users, or >> something like that) to take load off of the support services. At the same >> time, this would promote new products by adding them to the list (Oh I >> didn't know Quattro Pro was for FreeBSD! kinda thing).. > >Well, yes, Wes suggested a web site in the original message of this >subthread. Are you thinking of more? > First I need to remember not to sleep during the day, but that's another story :). Sort of. The issue was originally "the load on support services (namely Corel at the time)". That could be alleviated in some form by providing a web board with a path. I.e. /Software/Word Processing/Corel Wordperfect 8. Support services could be designed for support of particular Hardware (I.e. Brooktree cards, which are already supported) too. A Works-With-FreeBSD logo on an Etherlink XL, yeah that'd be pretty cool. >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 15:21:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10108 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:21:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10100 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:21:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27053; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:20:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd027034; Tue Oct 27 16:20:33 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA12516; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:20:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810272320.QAA12516@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 23:20:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, wes@softweyr.com, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981028091347.W20920@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Oct 28, 98 09:13:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I have an issue with the install process, and with "brandelf". I > > think this should be done transparently. > > > > I suspect this means providing a FreeBSD installer for the product, > > and trying to convince them to ship the installer with their > > software (most desirable), or provide it on their site (less > > desirable, since the program won't install "out of the box" > > that way). > > Good point. This would also include documentation on how to install > for FreeBSD, as well as any special things needed ("In order to run > YoyoFloop on your FreeBSD system, you must have installed the Linux > emulator"). But I don't think it should be a condition of > certification ("Certified at class 2 for use with FreeBSD" :-) I was thinking in terms of a script (or package) that used the output of "pkg_info -a -q" (or set dependencies) such that the installation was straight-forward, given the commercial vendor's installation media. This would dispense with the "special needs". And I think that it *is* necessary for ceritification -- the existance of the scripts to do the install, not necessarily the provision of the scripts by the vendor. On the other hand, asking a vendor to include a file "FreeBSD.sh", such that the install instructions were: cd /mnt sh FreeBSD.sh Could only be a good thing (replace mnt with whatever net appropriate unpacking directory was used for network programs; however, I think it's best to get on the CDROM, and to provide packages for net available software -- like Netscape -- where possible). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 15:46:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13894 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:46:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13885 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:46:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA08248; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:44:20 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:44:20 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Drew Baxter cc: Greg Lehey , Terry Lambert , Wes Peters , kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981027180342.00afbf10@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Would the software have to pass quality tests? Would the logo/certification be available for software specifically designed to run native, without the emulators? Would companies be allowed to use the certification in advertisements? Would related logos be available, to the effect of "We support the FreeBSD Certification Effort"? Just a few thoughts :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] [ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] [ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 18:13:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04673 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:13:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04661 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id SAA17150; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id SAA19544; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:09:44 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id TAA08553; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:09:42 -0700 Message-ID: <36367CE6.BFF12693@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:09:42 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Licia CC: Drew Baxter , Greg Lehey , Terry Lambert , kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG First let me say I'm glad this is taking off -- we're generating some good ideas here. Licia wrote: > > Would the software have to pass quality tests? > > Would the logo/certification be available for > software specifically designed to run native, > without the emulators? I initially proposed two logos, but apparently nobody saw that message. The two logo programs are "Designed for FreeBSD" and "Works with FreeBSD." The first, "Designed for FreeBSD," is for software that offers FreeBSD- native ports. An excellent example of this is the version of Netscape 4.5 I'm using right now. This would also be offered for hardware that companies commit to supporting FreeBSD in almost any way, from developing and release drivers themselves all the way to just offering development hardware or even manuals to driver developers. Say for instance Mike Smith wants to write a FreeBSD driver for a PCMCIA T1/E1 card. He calls the card vendor, tells the person on the phone what he's doing, and this person says "That's great! We can't do a driver ourselves, but we'll send you our Windows driver source, all the internal documentation we have, datasheets on the chips, and a card to use for 6 months." Mike nominates this company for a "Designed for FreeBSD" logo, which is awarded when his driver is ready to roll. (This is a cool idea, no?) An off-the-cuff example of hardware vendors we'd offer this to right away would be Cyclades and Emerging Technologies. Whistle, too, of The second, "Works with FreeBSD," is for software that runs on FreeBSD under emulation, and/or hardware that is known to work well with FreeBSD. Say, for instance, I've made several workstations with a particular motherboard from XYZ Corp., and have found it easy to configure and use. I write up a description of the system's I've built, which XYZ Corp motherboard(s) I've used, and submit this to the "Works" page. It's filed, and the company is awared the "Works" logo. Same deal for software under emulation. Linux apps, SCO apps, BSDI apps, etc. A good example of this is the Acrobat Reader binary I have installed on my workstation; it's a Linux binary installed with a port kit. Whoever undertakes to do the testing would make notes on what is required to get it to work, i.e. "needs Linux emulation pre-installed; at step 4 in the included installation process, stop and 'brandelf /usr/local/bin/Xword'" or something of the sort. If the person doing the testing wants to create a 'port' that will install the product and offer it to the company, or just post it on FreeBSD servers; so much the better. > Would companies be allowed to use the certification in advertisements? I certainly hope they do! Ideally, we'd want them to put the logo on their web pages for the branded product(s), pointing to the FreeBSD web pages talking about the testing and support of the product. We'd also want them to stick stickers on the box, or on the hardware itself. Yeah, I'd like to see a little "Designed for FreeBSD" sticker on the back (or front!) of the Whistle InterJet and Pluto SPACE Platform. > Would related logos be available, to the effect of "We support the FreeBSD > Certification Effort"? I think the above two pretty much cover it. We're calling more attention to those who really work with us, and offering to do the testing, etc., work for the "Works with" products. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 18:33:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06722 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:33:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06708 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:33:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA08942; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 20:32:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 20:32:29 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Wes Peters cc: Drew Baxter , Greg Lehey , Terry Lambert , kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: <36367CE6.BFF12693@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > First let me say I'm glad this is taking off -- we're generating some > good ideas here. > I think the initial idea itself is a good one. It seems like an important first step towards encouraging and even validating applications developers who support or specialize in FreeBSD. > Licia wrote: > > > > Would the software have to pass quality tests? > > > > Would the logo/certification be available for > > software specifically designed to run native, > > without the emulators? > > I initially proposed two logos, but apparently nobody saw that message. > The two logo programs are "Designed for FreeBSD" and "Works with FreeBSD." > > The first, "Designed for FreeBSD," is for software that offers FreeBSD- > native ports. An excellent example of this is the version of Netscape > 4.5 I'm using right now. This would also be offered for hardware that > companies commit to supporting FreeBSD in almost any way, from developing > and release drivers themselves all the way to just offering development > hardware or even manuals to driver developers. Say for instance Mike > Smith wants to write a FreeBSD driver for a PCMCIA T1/E1 card. He calls > the card vendor, tells the person on the phone what he's doing, and this > person says "That's great! We can't do a driver ourselves, but we'll > send you our Windows driver source, all the internal documentation we > have, datasheets on the chips, and a card to use for 6 months." Mike > nominates this company for a "Designed for FreeBSD" logo, which is > awarded when his driver is ready to roll. (This is a cool idea, no?) > > An off-the-cuff example of hardware vendors we'd offer this to right > away would be Cyclades and Emerging Technologies. Whistle, too, of > An interesting thought, how will verification of such things be accomplished? For example, I'm developing a spam filter called Bouncer. It's a TCP daemon that stands on port 25, handling all connections, passing acceptable data through to any existing MTA (like sendmail) that supports a stdio smtp/esmtp mode. It offers several policy mechanisms for dealing with possible spam as well as ip/hostname banning for several places in the email header. I'm writing it specifically for use under FreeBSD. Right now the only available version is an early alpha binary.(fully functional, about 90% feature-complete) If I were to apply for this certification for Bouncer, what criteria would I need to meet? Would I need to provide source? Would I need to provide a fully configured system? Would I simply need to give you my word that it's there and that it works? What sort of procedure do you envision for certification of this type of situation? (if source is required, I could not submit it until Beta, as that is when I will release the source) > > The second, "Works with FreeBSD," is for software that runs on FreeBSD > under emulation, and/or hardware that is known to work well with FreeBSD. > Say, for instance, I've made several workstations with a particular > motherboard from XYZ Corp., and have found it easy to configure and use. > I write up a description of the system's I've built, which XYZ Corp > motherboard(s) I've used, and submit this to the "Works" page. It's > filed, and the company is awared the "Works" logo. > > Same deal for software under emulation. Linux apps, SCO apps, BSDI apps, > etc. A good example of this is the Acrobat Reader binary I have installed > on my workstation; it's a Linux binary installed with a port kit. Whoever > undertakes to do the testing would make notes on what is required to get > it to work, i.e. "needs Linux emulation pre-installed; at step 4 in the > included installation process, stop and 'brandelf /usr/local/bin/Xword'" > or something of the sort. If the person doing the testing wants to create > a 'port' that will install the product and offer it to the company, or > just post it on FreeBSD servers; so much the better. > Would this be extended to things such as dos applications useable via doscmd, windows applications useable in wine, and the various other emulators (such as amiga, mac, commodore 64, etc)? or would it require that the emulation be one of those included in a common base line installation? > > Would companies be allowed to use the certification in advertisements? > > I certainly hope they do! Ideally, we'd want them to put the logo on their > web pages for the branded product(s), pointing to the FreeBSD web pages > talking about the testing and support of the product. We'd also want them > to stick stickers on the box, or on the hardware itself. Yeah, I'd like to > see a little "Designed for FreeBSD" sticker on the back (or front!) of the > Whistle InterJet and Pluto SPACE Platform. > What would be the restrictions on such usage? > > Would related logos be available, to the effect of "We support the FreeBSD > > Certification Effort"? > > I think the above two pretty much cover it. We're calling more attention > to those who really work with us, and offering to do the testing, etc., > work for the "Works with" products. What sort of structure, organization, and procedures do you see as needed to bring this to a strong level of validity and professionalism? [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] [ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] [ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 18:42:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07930 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:42:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07921 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:42:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4019.ime.net [209.90.195.29]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA29015; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:41:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981027213218.00a704a0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:37:15 -0500 To: Licia From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) Cc: Wes Peters , Greg Lehey , Terry Lambert , kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <36367CE6.BFF12693@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Clipped the crap out of this.. At 08:32 PM 10/27/98 -0600, you wrote: > >I think the initial idea itself is a good one. It seems like an important >first step towards encouraging and even validating applications developers >who support or specialize in FreeBSD. > It would also plug support in a lot of ways. Especially people saying "oh it works on FreeBSD, what's that?" and people would go look. All in all, I think it's a very sound idea and should be implemented. >An interesting thought, how will verification of such things be accomplished? >For example, I'm developing a spam filter called Bouncer. It's a TCP daemon >that stands on port 25, handling all connections, passing acceptable data >through to any existing MTA (like sendmail) that supports a stdio smtp/esmtp >mode. It offers several policy mechanisms for dealing with possible spam >as well as ip/hostname banning for several places in the email header. I'm >writing it specifically for use under FreeBSD. Right now the only available >version is an early alpha binary.(fully functional, about 90% feature-complete) >If I were to apply for this certification for Bouncer, what criteria would I >need to meet? Would I need to provide source? Would I need to provide a >fully configured system? Would I simply need to give you my word that it's >there and that it works? What sort of procedure do you envision for >certification of this type of situation? (if source is required, I could >not submit it until Beta, as that is when I will release the source) That's a good question.. I'd imagine certification would be if the program runs on a variety of differing machines. If it's 'made in/on/for' FreeBSD, I'd imagine it'd be 'Designed For FreeBSD'.. Does anyone know how Microsoft does their certification? Maybe R&D goes "It works under Windows 95" and just puts the sticker on it. > >> >> The second, "Works with FreeBSD," is for software that runs on FreeBSD >> under emulation, and/or hardware that is known to work well with FreeBSD. >> Say, for instance, I've made several workstations with a particular >> motherboard from XYZ Corp., and have found it easy to configure and use. >> I write up a description of the system's I've built, which XYZ Corp >> motherboard(s) I've used, and submit this to the "Works" page. It's >> filed, and the company is awared the "Works" logo. >> >> Same deal for software under emulation. Linux apps, SCO apps, BSDI apps, >> etc. A good example of this is the Acrobat Reader binary I have installed >> on my workstation; it's a Linux binary installed with a port kit. Whoever >> undertakes to do the testing would make notes on what is required to get >> it to work, i.e. "needs Linux emulation pre-installed; at step 4 in the >> included installation process, stop and 'brandelf /usr/local/bin/Xword'" >> or something of the sort. If the person doing the testing wants to create >> a 'port' that will install the product and offer it to the company, or >> just post it on FreeBSD servers; so much the better. >> > >Would this be extended to things such as dos applications useable via doscmd, >windows applications useable in wine, and the various other emulators (such >as amiga, mac, commodore 64, etc)? or would it require that the emulation be >one of those included in a common base line installation? > >> > Would companies be allowed to use the certification in advertisements? >> >> I certainly hope they do! Ideally, we'd want them to put the logo on their >> web pages for the branded product(s), pointing to the FreeBSD web pages >> talking about the testing and support of the product. We'd also want them >> to stick stickers on the box, or on the hardware itself. Yeah, I'd like to >> see a little "Designed for FreeBSD" sticker on the back (or front!) of the >> Whistle InterJet and Pluto SPACE Platform. >> > >What would be the restrictions on such usage? > >> > Would related logos be available, to the effect of "We support the FreeBSD >> > Certification Effort"? >> >> I think the above two pretty much cover it. We're calling more attention >> to those who really work with us, and offering to do the testing, etc., >> work for the "Works with" products. > >What sort of structure, organization, and procedures do you see as needed >to bring this to a strong level of validity and professionalism? > >[ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] >[ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] >[ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] >[ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] > --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 19:08:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10388 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:08:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10382 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:08:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4019.ime.net [209.90.195.29]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id WAA02146; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:06:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981027220052.00a7ae10@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:02:23 -0500 To: Licia , Wes Peters , Greg Lehey , Terry Lambert , kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981027213218.00a704a0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:01 PM 10/27/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > >> [Clipped the crap out of this.. >> At 08:32 PM 10/27/98 -0600, you wrote: >> > >> >I think the initial idea itself is a good one. It seems like an important >> >first step towards encouraging and even validating applications developers >> >who support or specialize in FreeBSD. >> > >> >> It would also plug support in a lot of ways. Especially people saying "oh >> it works on FreeBSD, what's that?" and people would go look. All in all, I >> think it's a very sound idea and should be implemented. >> > >I think both are useful and important goals. > >> >An interesting thought, how will verification of such things be >accomplished? >> >For example, I'm developing a spam filter called Bouncer. It's a TCP daemon >> >that stands on port 25, handling all connections, passing acceptable data >> >through to any existing MTA (like sendmail) that supports a stdio smtp/esmtp >> >mode. It offers several policy mechanisms for dealing with possible spam >> >as well as ip/hostname banning for several places in the email header. I'm >> >writing it specifically for use under FreeBSD. Right now the only available >> >version is an early alpha binary.(fully functional, about 90% >> feature-complete) >> >If I were to apply for this certification for Bouncer, what criteria would I >> >need to meet? Would I need to provide source? Would I need to provide a >> >fully configured system? Would I simply need to give you my word that it's >> >there and that it works? What sort of procedure do you envision for >> >certification of this type of situation? (if source is required, I could >> >not submit it until Beta, as that is when I will release the source) >> >> That's a good question.. I'd imagine certification would be if the program >> runs on a variety of differing machines. If it's 'made in/on/for' FreeBSD, >> I'd imagine it'd be 'Designed For FreeBSD'.. >> >> Does anyone know how Microsoft does their certification? Maybe R&D goes "It >> works under Windows 95" and just puts the sticker on it. >> > >Additionally, would there be a set level of difficulty for "works with" >material? Will there be a point where the effort required to make it >work is deemed unacceptable for certification? > Well, I'd think "works with" could be emulation. Like DOS apps work with Win95, but they aren't 'Designed for' directly. So lets say, Corel 8 for Linux. If it works under Linux emulation, we put a blurb saying it needs the emulation package to run, but it "Works With FreeBSD". Alternatively, if they port it directly to FreeBSD (no emulation), it'd be "Designed For FreeBSD'. I think that's what I gathered from the previous posts.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 27 23:32:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29709 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 23:32:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29696 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 23:32:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA21225; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:27:40 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Message-ID: <19981028092740.A3113@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:27:40 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: Terry Lambert , Greg Lehey Cc: wes@softweyr.com, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <19981028091347.W20920@freebie.lemis.com> <199810272320.QAA12516@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199810272320.QAA12516@usr04.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Tue, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:20:30PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Tue, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:20:30PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > I was thinking in terms of a script (or package) that used the > output of "pkg_info -a -q" (or set dependencies) such that the > installation was straight-forward, given the commercial vendor's > installation media. Why not just have a new ports category called "commercial"? That way it is easy to make sure the software installs on all versions of FreeBSD, etc. and that the required dependencies are installed. Obviously this would require that FreeBSD, Inc. be supplied with demo copies of all the software :) Regards, -Jeremy -- | What will people think when they hear that I'm a Jesus freak? --+-- What will people do when they find that it's true? | I don't really care if they label me a Jesus Freak, | There ain't no disguising the truth. - d c Talk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 04:16:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24293 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send101.yahoomail.com (send101.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA24288 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:16:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thallgren@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19981028121614.15322.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Received: from [131.116.254.196] by send101.yahoomail.com; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:16:14 PST Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:16:14 -0800 (PST) From: Tommy Hallgren Subject: Record To: FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Shouldn't we take advantage of the record ftp.cdrom.com set some days ago by writing some "official statement" and post it to places like slashdot.org and yahoo? Regards, Tommy - did miss the announcement _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 07:57:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13096 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:57:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13091 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:57:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul6.u.washington.edu (root@saul6.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.1]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id HAA34724; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:56:31 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul6.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id HAA17922; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:56:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:56:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Tommy Hallgren cc: FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Record In-Reply-To: <19981028121614.15322.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Tommy Hallgren wrote: >Shouldn't we take advantage of the record ftp.cdrom.com set some days >ago by writing some "official statement" and post it to places like >slashdot.org and yahoo? Go for it. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 08:00:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13561 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:00:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13550 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:00:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul4.u.washington.edu (root@saul4.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.2]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA19738; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:00:15 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA06519; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:00:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:59:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Drew Baxter cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ordered Replies Was: FreeBSD cert... In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981027175051.00ae3450@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Drew Baxter wrote everything in the wrong order: Drew. I request that you put your replies at the bottom like everyone else. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 08:05:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14045 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:05:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14040 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:05:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul6.u.washington.edu (root@saul6.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.1]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA66506; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:04:57 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul6.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA20218; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:04:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:04:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Wes Peters cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: <36367CE6.BFF12693@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >I initially proposed two logos, but apparently nobody saw that message. >The two logo programs are "Designed for FreeBSD" and "Works with FreeBSD." My cut on this is one logo. Works with FreeBSD. The process of "Work with" should be transparent to the end user. I believe Terry L. proposed simply using existing package dependencies system to determine if software uses the Linuxulator. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 08:22:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15187 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:22:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15175 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:22:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA11036; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:20:59 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:20:58 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > >I initially proposed two logos, but apparently nobody saw that message. > >The two logo programs are "Designed for FreeBSD" and "Works with FreeBSD." > > My cut on this is one logo. Works with FreeBSD. > > The process of "Work with" should be transparent to the end user. I > believe Terry L. proposed simply using existing package dependencies > system to determine if software uses the Linuxulator. > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > A basic FreeBSD Compatible logo then? Perhaps similar to the "Powered By FreeBSD" logo for web pages, with the wording modified? [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] [ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] [ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 08:36:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16448 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:36:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16443 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:36:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul2.u.washington.edu (root@saul2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.21]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA16114 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:35:33 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA20273 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:35:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:35:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: "Works with" and the website. In-Reply-To: <199810272218.PAA09099@usr04.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG One thing we can do RIGHT NOW is put this logo on every single ports webpage. This will start the process of getting the logo some recognition. This is easily done. Yes, this may seem to be "stating the obvious" but we are talking advertising now. I would make said logo similar to the "Powered by" series of logos for easy recognition. (OBTW, I have gimp but I am no artist. If make a logo it will be gross.) Give me an account on www.freebsd.org and permission and I will get started. This is something that I know I can do effectively. Has Mr. McKusick given FreeBSD carte blanche permission to use the daemon? Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 08:40:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16887 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:40:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16833 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:39:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul3.u.washington.edu (root@saul3.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.1]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA53526; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:39:19 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA19536; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:39:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:38:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Licia cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Licia wrote: >A basic FreeBSD Compatible logo then? Perhaps similar to the "Powered By >FreeBSD" logo for web pages, with the wording modified? This is vote number two for something similar to "Powered by". Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 08:50:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA17836 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17794 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:49:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id IAA22727; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:49:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id IAA11381; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:49:03 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id JAA14236; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:49:02 -0700 Message-ID: <36374AFD.CABEEEED@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:49:01 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > > On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > >I initially proposed two logos, but apparently nobody saw that message. > >The two logo programs are "Designed for FreeBSD" and "Works with FreeBSD." > > My cut on this is one logo. Works with FreeBSD. I'd rather see extra credit given to those who take the time to make certain their software or hardware functions in the FreeBSD environment, and offer some sort of support for it. The big difference here is that "Works with FreeBSD" is based on the reports and work of FreeBSD volunteers, who have taken the time to determine if some piece of hardware or software will work with FreeBSD, and offers some instructions on how to make it do so. "Designed for FreeBSD" is reserved for software and hardware that is actually supported by their creator in the FreeBSD environment. > The process of "Work with" should be transparent to the end user. I > believe Terry L. proposed simply using existing package dependencies > system to determine if software uses the Linuxulator. So, someone who reports that the SCO version of Froboz Corp FroSQL server will work on FreeBSD under the SCO emulator is just noise? No, this is a volunteer effort, and we should encourage participation as much as possible. Let's not try to over-complicate this out of existence, this project has far too much history of people wanting to build giant infra- structure but not being willing to step up and implement it. I feel strongly we should stick with a couple of simple rules; perhaps have a second tester install and test the application using the instructions or scripts given by the first. Independant verification of results is important, but I don't see why we should deny a "Works with" logo to a product because nobody will write a port kit. As far as the infrastructure goes, I think the advocacy and questions mailing list are entirely adequate. Somebody grabs and application they want, figures out how to install it, tests it, makes some careful notes, and fires off an email message: "Hey, I've tested FroSQL and it works! Here's what you have to do..." A couple more people think "Hey, FroSQL could be kinda nice, I'll give that a try." They concur, or they resolve problems and fix up the instructions, or write a port tarball, or whatever, and finally email -advocacy saying "Hey, we've found that FroSQL works. Here's the installation instructions for their web page entry, let's send them a Works With logo." -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 09:00:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18695 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:00:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18690 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:00:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id IAA22767; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id IAA11478; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:52:03 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id JAA14268; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:52:01 -0700 Message-ID: <36374BB1.5D25725A@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:52:01 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeremy Lea CC: Terry Lambert , Greg Lehey , netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <19981028091347.W20920@freebie.lemis.com> <199810272320.QAA12516@usr04.primenet.com> <19981028092740.A3113@shale.csir.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeremy Lea wrote: > > Hi, > > On Tue, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:20:30PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I was thinking in terms of a script (or package) that used the > > output of "pkg_info -a -q" (or set dependencies) such that the > > installation was straight-forward, given the commercial vendor's > > installation media. > > Why not just have a new ports category called "commercial"? That way it is > easy to make sure the software installs on all versions of FreeBSD, etc. and > that the required dependencies are installed. Obviously this would require > that FreeBSD, Inc. be supplied with demo copies of all the software :) Or just a web or ftp download site. Aren't ports cool? Plus, this would save us from going to a 6- or 8-CD distribution, something I'm certain Jordan doesn't want to contemplate. I guess we could make a "FreeBSD Enterprise" distribution, with CD's of all of the different applications we can support, and put it in one of those big CD books Sun uses. ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 09:11:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20268 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:11:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20263 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:11:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id JAA25960; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:11:14 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id JAA08913; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:11:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:10:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Wes Peters cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: <36374AFD.CABEEEED@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >> The process of "Work with" should be transparent to the end user. I >> believe Terry L. proposed simply using existing package dependencies >> system to determine if software uses the Linuxulator. > >So, someone who reports that the SCO version of Froboz Corp FroSQL server >will work on FreeBSD under the SCO emulator is just noise? No, this is (When I use the example of the Linuxulator I am not excluding SCO so no, the person you mentioned above is not just making noise.) >a volunteer effort, and we should encourage participation as much as >possible. Let's not try to over-complicate this out of existence, this >project has far too much history of people wanting to build giant infra- >structure but not being willing to step up and implement it. I think there is a miscommunication here. When I say the process of "Works with" should be transparent I mean that any software should be as easy to install as a FreeBSD port. The Linux Netscape port is a prime example. The Linux Netscape is as easy to install as any native software. This requires no development of a giant infrastructure. FWIW, I think that all of the technicalities are already covered by the ports mechanism and existing FreeBSD technology. I view this branding effort as an advertising effort and not a technology development effort. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 09:20:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20989 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:20:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20973 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:20:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11238; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:19:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:19:33 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've placed some possible examples of logos at the following urls : http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat1.jpg http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat2.gif http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat3.gif They are not very high quality, and would need permission from at least two copyright holders, but show what I seem to understand from this discussion. Please feel free to correct me :) On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Licia wrote: > > >A basic FreeBSD Compatible logo then? Perhaps similar to the "Powered By > >FreeBSD" logo for web pages, with the wording modified? > > This is vote number two for something similar to "Powered by". > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] [ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] [ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 09:52:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23540 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:52:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23498 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:51:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id JAA23648; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:51:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id JAA23063; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:51:07 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id KAA14935; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:51:04 -0700 Message-ID: <36375988.42E48E44@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:51:04 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" CC: Tommy Hallgren , FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Record References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Tommy Hallgren wrote: > > >Shouldn't we take advantage of the record ftp.cdrom.com set some days > >ago by writing some "official statement" and post it to places like > >slashdot.org and yahoo? > > Go for it. Right on, Jason. Pick up the reins and go for it. Tommy, here's a simple template for you, copped from a message I wrote this morning:

{put your title here}

by {your name here}
Copyright © {year} {your name again}

Write your article here, using simple HTML.

Try to stick with just paragraph and simple formatting tags, like italic, bold, or emphasis.

When you've finished, email this to articles@daemonnews.org, with a subject of "FreeBSD News Flash."

Your article-let will appear in the next issue of Daemon News. We've been discussing having the "News Flash" items updated regularly throughout the month, but we're still getting the 'zine into shape. This probably won't happen for a while. The topic can be any newsworthy tidbit about FreeBSD, or any other BSD system. I sent one this morning about Lan Times magazine using FreeBSD in their test labs. Since you own the copyright, you can submit this to other publications as well. I think both SlashDot and Linux Weekly News would be receptive of most non-trivial FreeBSD news items. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 10:11:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25261 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:11:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25256 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:11:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id KAA23930; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id KAA23613; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:10:53 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id LAA15102; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:10:51 -0700 Message-ID: <36375E2B.7FB07828@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:10:51 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Works with" and the website. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > > One thing we can do RIGHT NOW is put this logo on every single ports > webpage. This will start the process of getting the logo some recognition. > This is easily done. And a logical first step. Again, Adobe Acrobat comes immediately to mind. I nominate Netscape Communicator for a "Designed for" logo, since they take to time to produce a FreeBSD-specific release. > Yes, this may seem to be "stating the obvious" but we are talking > advertising now. Which is usually "stating the obvious." Thanks for stepping up. > I would make said logo similar to the "Powered by" series of logos for > easy recognition. (OBTW, I have gimp but I am no artist. If make a logo it > will be gross.) Ditto for me. Do we have a house artist available? I agree it should be recognizable as a FreeBSD logo. We may want to make a little squarish logo as well, for product boxes and such. I hope we can get these onto boxes. ;^) If you send me your "Works with" artwork I'll do my best to make the "Designed for" version. Perhaps we should use a different color in the color bar to differentiate the two? I propose to make the color bar "true blue" for the "Designed for" logo. ;^) This is a great start. Do we have a volunteer to start on the web page? Once we get the web page up, describing the initial logo-qualified products, I'll be glad to write a news flash, or perhaps even an article, for Daemon News. (Along with SlashDot, LWN, etc.) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 10:27:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27143 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:27:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27138 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:27:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4022.ime.net [209.90.195.32]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id NAA03053; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:24:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981028132203.00a812a0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:22:46 -0500 To: Wes Peters , Jeremy Lea From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) Cc: Terry Lambert , Greg Lehey , kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36374BB1.5D25725A@softweyr.com> References: <19981028091347.W20920@freebie.lemis.com> <199810272320.QAA12516@usr04.primenet.com> <19981028092740.A3113@shale.csir.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:52 AM 10/28/98 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: >Jeremy Lea wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> On Tue, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:20:30PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> > I was thinking in terms of a script (or package) that used the >> > output of "pkg_info -a -q" (or set dependencies) such that the >> > installation was straight-forward, given the commercial vendor's >> > installation media. >> >> Why not just have a new ports category called "commercial"? That way it is >> easy to make sure the software installs on all versions of FreeBSD, etc. and >> that the required dependencies are installed. Obviously this would require >> that FreeBSD, Inc. be supplied with demo copies of all the software :) > >Or just a web or ftp download site. Aren't ports cool? > >Plus, this would save us from going to a 6- or 8-CD distribution, something >I'm certain Jordan doesn't want to contemplate. > >I guess we could make a "FreeBSD Enterprise" distribution, with CD's of >all of the different applications we can support, and put it in one of >those big CD books Sun uses. ;^) > >-- > Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? > >Wes Peters >+1.801.915.2061 >Softweyr LLC >wes@softweyr.com Ah the illustrious Sun Book.. I'm still kinda curious why they gave me the Maint Upgrade 2 when it said it was already installed when I installed Solaris X86. And where's my make world? :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 11:16:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02423 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:16:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02418 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:16:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul2.u.washington.edu (root@saul2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.21]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id LAA16936; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:15:29 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id LAA14844; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:15:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:15:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Wes Peters cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Let's nail some things down. In-Reply-To: <36375E2B.7FB07828@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We will have two logos. "Works with" and "Designed for". Do we agree? The test for "Works with" should be a simple "can it run under some sort of emulation?" (E.G acroread) The test for "Designed for" should be "can we build it from source?" or "did the developer build FreeBSD native binaries?". (E.G. netscape and all source available ports) Do the above statements seem reasonable? If so, let's set them in stone so we can reduce the number of degrees of freedom in this problem and work toward a solution. I think Wes' concerns about "giant infrastructure" are valid. I think the KISS principle should apply. Do we agree? Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 11:29:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04296 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:29:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04250 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:29:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4022.ime.net [209.90.195.32]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id OAA03134; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:29:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981028142657.00a66940@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:27:22 -0500 To: "Jason C. Wells" , Wes Peters From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <36375E2B.7FB07828@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:15 AM 10/28/98 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >We will have two logos. "Works with" and "Designed for". Do we agree? > >The test for "Works with" should be a simple "can it run under some sort >of emulation?" (E.G acroread) > >The test for "Designed for" should be "can we build it from source?" or >"did the developer build FreeBSD native binaries?". (E.G. netscape and >all source available ports) > >Do the above statements seem reasonable? If so, let's set them in stone so >we can reduce the number of degrees of freedom in this problem and work >toward a solution. > >I think Wes' concerns about "giant infrastructure" are valid. I think the >KISS principle should apply. Do we agree? > >Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering >Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ Sounds good to me. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 12:58:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17537 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:58:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17532 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:58:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA80574; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:58:29 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <36375E2B.7FB07828@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:57:25 -0500 To: "Jason C. Wells" , Wes Peters From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:15 AM -0800 10/28/98, Jason C. Wells wrote: >We will have two logos. "Works with" and "Designed for". Do we agree? > >The test for "Works with" should be a simple "can it run under some sort >of emulation?" (E.G acroread) > >The test for "Designed for" should be "can we build it from source?" or >"did the developer build FreeBSD native binaries?". (E.G. netscape and >all source available ports) > >Do the above statements seem reasonable? If so, let's set them in stone so >we can reduce the number of degrees of freedom in this problem and work >toward a solution. The above seems reasonable to me. Just to add a few degrees of freedom though, Jordan was talking about using new artwork for the next (after 3.0) release of the CD-ROM. Would we want to see what that will be like before designing these logos? (actually he was talking about new artwork for 3.0 release, but the deadline for artwork was upon us too quickly) --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 13:03:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18179 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:03:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18173 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:03:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id NAA15372; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:02:46 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id NAA17858; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:02:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:02:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Garance A Drosihn cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: >(actually he was talking about new artwork for 3.0 release, but >the deadline for artwork was upon us too quickly) You sound like you may be an artist. Are you? Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 13:34:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21767 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:34:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21758 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:34:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA40662; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:34:22 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:33:17 -0500 To: "Jason C. Wells" From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 1:02 PM -0800 10/28/98, Jason C. Wells wrote: >On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > >>(actually he was talking about new artwork for 3.0 release, but >>the deadline for artwork was upon us too quickly) > > You sound like you may be an artist. Are you? Not even in my wildest dreams, unless maybe you include etch-a-sketch renderings. However, one of my friends is an artist, and I have him trying to come up with some possible submissions for the artwork for the next freebsd release. He's not DONE yet, of course, but I hope to have something out of him before December 1st. My assumption is that it will be the core group, or some other collection of people, who actually decides on what ideas for artwork seem promising. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 14:49:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27648 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:49:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27620 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:49:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA19812; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:18:21 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA02934; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:17:51 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981029091751.N25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:17:51 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters , Jeremy Lea Cc: Terry Lambert , netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <19981028091347.W20920@freebie.lemis.com> <199810272320.QAA12516@usr04.primenet.com> <19981028092740.A3113@shale.csir.co.za> <36374BB1.5D25725A@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <36374BB1.5D25725A@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 09:52:01AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 9:52:01 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Jeremy Lea wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> On Tue, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:20:30PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> I was thinking in terms of a script (or package) that used the >>> output of "pkg_info -a -q" (or set dependencies) such that the >>> installation was straight-forward, given the commercial vendor's >>> installation media. >> >> Why not just have a new ports category called "commercial"? That way it is >> easy to make sure the software installs on all versions of FreeBSD, etc. and >> that the required dependencies are installed. Obviously this would require >> that FreeBSD, Inc. be supplied with demo copies of all the software :) > > Or just a web or ftp download site. Aren't ports cool? > > Plus, this would save us from going to a 6- or 8-CD distribution, something > I'm certain Jordan doesn't want to contemplate. > > I guess we could make a "FreeBSD Enterprise" distribution, with CD's of > all of the different applications we can support, and put it in one of > those big CD books Sun uses. ;^) Aren't we rather getting off the original tack of certifying software offered for sale? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 14:55:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28485 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:55:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28479 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:55:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA19840; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:24:18 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA02960; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:24:09 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981029092408.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:24:08 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Licia , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Licia on Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 11:19:33AM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 11:19:33 -0600, Licia wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: >> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Licia wrote: >> >>> A basic FreeBSD Compatible logo then? Perhaps similar to the "Powered By >>> FreeBSD" logo for web pages, with the wording modified? >> >> This is vote number two for something similar to "Powered by". > > I've placed some possible examples of logos at the following urls : > > http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat1.jpg > http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat2.gif > http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat3.gif I'd go for number 3. "Certified" doesn't sound so hot to me. BTW, it would make comparison easier if you'd pack them in an .html page so they could all appear on the screen together. > They are not very high quality, and would need permission from > at least two copyright holders, Who's the second? I'm assuming that you don't include FreeBSD in the list, since this is a FreeBSD effort. AFAIK the only person who needs to give permission is Kirk McKusick. I don't expect you'd have problems there. > but show what I seem to understand from this discussion. Please > feel free to correct me :) I still think we need at least two distinct stickers: "Works with FreeBSD" and "designed for FreeBSD" are a good start. Somehow we need to encourage people to put our sticker on anything that works with FreeBSD, and yet leave that little extra which might make them decide to port their product directly. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 15:00:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28942 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:00:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28933 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:00:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA19859; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:29:21 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA02974; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:29:15 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981029092915.P25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:29:15 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jason C. Wells" , Wes Peters Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <36374AFD.CABEEEED@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 09:10:55AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 9:10:55 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > >>> The process of "Work with" should be transparent to the end user. I >>> believe Terry L. proposed simply using existing package dependencies >>> system to determine if software uses the Linuxulator. >> >> So, someone who reports that the SCO version of Froboz Corp FroSQL server >> will work on FreeBSD under the SCO emulator is just noise? No, this is > > (When I use the example of the Linuxulator I am not excluding SCO so no, > the person you mentioned above is not just making noise.) > >> a volunteer effort, and we should encourage participation as much as >> possible. Let's not try to over-complicate this out of existence, this >> project has far too much history of people wanting to build giant infra- >> structure but not being willing to step up and implement it. > > I think there is a miscommunication here. > > When I say the process of "Works with" should be transparent I mean that > any software should be as easy to install as a FreeBSD port. The Linux > Netscape port is a prime example. The Linux Netscape is as easy to install > as any native software. This requires no development of a giant > infrastructure. This is where we're beginning to diverge. I don't want to exclude *anything* which can be got to work with FreeBSD, even if it's difficult. That's why I said "at least two" categories in an earlier message. You could consider differentiating again between (e.g. Linux) software which has FreeBSD installation support and that which doesn't. StarOffice on CD is probably not easy to install on FreeBSD; it's the port that does that. If a port exists, and the manufacturer distributes the package on his CD-ROM, then we should give him extra credit for that, even if it's not a native FreeBSD port. > FWIW, I think that all of the technicalities are already covered by the > ports mechanism and existing FreeBSD technology. I view this branding > effort as an advertising effort and not a technology development effort. Agreed, the second sentence anyway. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 15:11:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00542 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:11:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00532 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:11:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03368; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:32:53 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981028223253.64707@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:32:53 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Greg Lehey , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8 for Linux References: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Tue, Oct 27, 1998 at 01:17:45PM +1030 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Oct 27, 1998 at 01:17:45PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Monday, 26 October 1998 at 20:04:03 +1030, Kris Kennaway wrote: >>and submit feedback politely asking them to consider a FreeBSD native port, or >>to endeavour that the Linux version is runnable under emulation. > >Why do that? The Linux version should work, StarOffice. As far as I can make out (only having run it infrequently), that was a great example of how to (gratuitously ?) write something that wasn't compatible with the emulator. I recall source code patches for /proc running around so the thing could pick up its arguments, because for some bizarre reason it didn't parse **argv. Or something like that anyway. I hope Linux WP8 will run without a hitch on FreeBSD's Linux emulation. It gives me one more reason not to have to install NT on my scratch box. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 15:27:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02453 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:27:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02445 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:27:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA19996; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:55:51 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA03063; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:55:50 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981029095550.W25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:55:50 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Nik Clayton , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Certification again (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <19981027131745.M20920@freebie.lemis.com> <19981028223253.64707@nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981028223253.64707@nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 10:32:53PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 22:32:53 +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Tue, Oct 27, 1998 at 01:17:45PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Monday, 26 October 1998 at 20:04:03 +1030, Kris Kennaway wrote: >>> and submit feedback politely asking them to consider a FreeBSD native port, or >>> to endeavour that the Linux version is runnable under emulation. >> >> Why do that? The Linux version should work, > > > StarOffice. > > As far as I can make out (only having run it infrequently), that was a > great example of how to (gratuitously ?) write something that wasn't > compatible with the emulator. I recall source code patches for /proc > running around so the thing could pick up its arguments, because for > some bizarre reason it didn't parse **argv. We need to distinguish between programs that work well and programs that don't. StarOffice found a number of holes in the emulator, most of which have been fixed. I've used it (and I tried it again just recently). My big problem with StarOffice is not the quality of the emulation, but the fact that I *hate* this kind of application with a vengeance. > Or something like that anyway. > > I hope Linux WP8 will run without a hitch on FreeBSD's Linux emulation. > It gives me one more reason not to have to install NT on my scratch box. If it doesn't, we need to establish why not and fix it. Not the application, the emulator. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 15:38:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03846 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:38:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03839 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:38:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA12556; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:37:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:37:16 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Greg Lehey cc: "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: <19981029092408.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (trimmed for brevity) On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 11:19:33 -0600, Licia wrote: > > > > I've placed some possible examples of logos at the following urls : > > > > http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat1.jpg > > http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat2.gif > > http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat3.gif > > I'd go for number 3. "Certified" doesn't sound so hot to me. > > > BTW, it would make comparison easier if you'd > pack them in an .html page so they could all appear on the screen > together. Consider it done. The page can be found at http://www.o-o.org/misc/logos.html along with the updated images > > > They are not very high quality, and would need permission from > > at least two copyright holders, > > Who's the second? I'm assuming that you don't include FreeBSD in the > list, since this is a FreeBSD effort. AFAIK the only person who needs > to give permission is Kirk McKusick. I don't expect you'd have > problems there. > The second would be the person who initially created the image on www.freebsd.org I modified to create fbsd-compat1.jpg... it would be rude to actually use and distribute that without their permission. > > but show what I seem to understand from this discussion. Please > > feel free to correct me :) > > I still think we need at least two distinct stickers: "Works with > FreeBSD" and "designed for FreeBSD" are a good start. Somehow we need > to encourage people to put our sticker on anything that works with > FreeBSD, and yet leave that little extra which might make them decide > to port their product directly. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > I have added the two current images as I understand them from the discussion... again, these are mainly to help myself envision what's being discussed, and I am not advancing these as official, authoritative, or even as "good enough to use" :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] [ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] [ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 15:40:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04198 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:40:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04189 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:40:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA27224; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:39:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA02268; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:39:03 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id QAA17974; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:39:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3637AB15.91CF6EFA@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:39:01 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <36374AFD.CABEEEED@softweyr.com> <19981029092915.P25247@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason C. Wells wrote: % When I say the process of "Works with" should be transparent I mean that % any software should be as easy to install as a FreeBSD port. The Linux % Netscape port is a prime example. The Linux Netscape is as easy to install % as any native software. This requires no development of a giant % infrastructure. Greg Lehey replied: > This is where we're beginning to diverge. I don't want to exclude > *anything* which can be got to work with FreeBSD, even if it's > difficult. That's why I said "at least two" categories in an earlier > message. You could consider differentiating again between > (e.g. Linux) software which has FreeBSD installation support and that > which doesn't. StarOffice on CD is probably not easy to install on > FreeBSD; it's the port that does that. If a port exists, and the > manufacturer distributes the package on his CD-ROM, then we should > give him extra credit for that, even if it's not a native FreeBSD > port. And I don't want to hold up the logo even for someone to write a port, but I realize this could be important, so I'm willing to go along with what appears to be consensus on this point. This does give us a pretty good definition of what qualifies as "Works with FreeBSD," too: if a port kit can be created that will install the software and make it work on FreeBSD, it qualifies for the logo. I guess the hardware analogy would be "a working FreeBSD device driver exists for this hardware." > > FWIW, I think that all of the technicalities are already covered by the > > ports mechanism and existing FreeBSD technology. I view this branding > > effort as an advertising effort and not a technology development effort. > > Agreed, the second sentence anyway. Most certainly. This is an attempt to get various commercial vendors, even those who give away their software, to advertise the fact that it "Works with FreeBSD." Or, better yet, is "Desgined for FreeBSD." -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 15:42:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04608 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:42:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04598 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:42:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA20053; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:11:26 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA03146; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:11:09 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981029101109.A25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:11:09 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Kirk McKusick Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Use of the Daemon to promote FreeBSD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kirk, some people in the FreeBSD-advocacy group are planning to set up a certification scheme for commercial software found to work with FreeBSD. They've come up with some logos that they want to encourage vendors to put on their shrink wrap. This would only be permissible if the product has been found to work with FreeBSD. Do you have any objections? You can find the current designs on http://www.o-o.org/misc/logos.html, though I expect they'll change a little. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 15:45:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05113 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:45:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05104 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:45:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA20069; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:14:33 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA03154; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:14:28 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:14:28 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jason C. Wells" , Wes Peters Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <36375E2B.7FB07828@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 11:15:10AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 11:15:10 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > We will have two logos. "Works with" and "Designed for". Do we > agree? No. Well, yes, in principle, but I haven't thought about it enough. I'm not overly happy with the exact wording "designed for", but I can't think of anything better at the moment. I think this is a point that we can bounce around a bit. Also, I'm not sure that three wouldn't be better, as discussed. > The test for "Works with" should be a simple "can it run under some sort > of emulation?" (E.G acroread) OK. > The test for "Designed for" should be "can we build it from source?" > or "did the developer build FreeBSD native > binaries?". (E.G. netscape and all source available ports) Maybe. I'm certainly expecting native FreeBSD binaries to be the predominant case. > Do the above statements seem reasonable? If so, let's set them in > stone so we can reduce the number of degrees of freedom in this > problem and work toward a solution. It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies installation aids for FreeBSD users". > I think Wes' concerns about "giant infrastructure" are valid. I > think the KISS principle should apply. Do we agree? Yes, finally :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 17:14:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01488 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:14:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01479 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:14:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4022.ime.net [209.90.195.32]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id TAA03359; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:27:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981028192208.009a6ee0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:22:52 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , Licia , "Jason C. Wells" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981029092408.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:24 AM 10/29/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 11:19:33 -0600, Licia wrote: >> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: >>> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Licia wrote: >>> >>>> A basic FreeBSD Compatible logo then? Perhaps similar to the "Powered By >>>> FreeBSD" logo for web pages, with the wording modified? >>> >>> This is vote number two for something similar to "Powered by". >> >> I've placed some possible examples of logos at the following urls : >> >> http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat1.jpg >> http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat2.gif >> http://www.o-o.org/fbsd-compat3.gif > >I'd go for number 3. "Certified" doesn't sound so hot to me. > > >BTW, it would make comparison easier if you'd >pack them in an .html page so they could all appear on the screen >together. > >> They are not very high quality, and would need permission from >> at least two copyright holders, > >Who's the second? I'm assuming that you don't include FreeBSD in the >list, since this is a FreeBSD effort. AFAIK the only person who needs >to give permission is Kirk McKusick. I don't expect you'd have >problems there. > >> but show what I seem to understand from this discussion. Please >> feel free to correct me :) > >I still think we need at least two distinct stickers: "Works with >FreeBSD" and "designed for FreeBSD" are a good start. Somehow we need >to encourage people to put our sticker on anything that works with >FreeBSD, and yet leave that little extra which might make them decide >to port their product directly. > >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key I dunno, I was expecting something perhaps square. That would be a pretty large label (even compressed down some) to put on a box or something like that.. The SCO OK, the Win95, The Netware, all of those have some sort of a uniform size.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 17:30:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04266 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:30:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04236 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:30:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id QAA27382; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:06:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA02882; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:06:47 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id RAA18149; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:06:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3637B196.E46DD672@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:06:46 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Record References: <36375988.42E48E44@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > When you've finished, email this to articles@daemonnews.org, with > a subject of "FreeBSD News Flash." That needs to be sent to article@daemonnews.org, or it won't work. Note the lack of an 's' there. Sorry to respond to my own message, and to have screwed it up in the first place. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 17:30:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04315 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:30:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04247 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:30:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id QAA27358; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:03:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA02847; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:03:57 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id RAA18136; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:03:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3637B0EC.3A482360@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:03:56 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > > We will have two logos. "Works with" and "Designed for". Do we agree? > > The test for "Works with" should be a simple "can it run under some sort > of emulation?" (E.G acroread) Right. Several others, including Greg Lehey, have mentioned adding the additional qualification of "a port kit that will install this software EXISTS." I'm coming around to this; it provides us with a good, finite test of whether a software product really qualifies for the logo. Agreement? Shouts of dislike? > The test for "Designed for" should be "can we build it from source?" or > "did the developer build FreeBSD native binaries?". (E.G. netscape and > all source available ports) > > Do the above statements seem reasonable? If so, let's set them in stone so > we can reduce the number of degrees of freedom in this problem and work > toward a solution. > > I think Wes' concerns about "giant infrastructure" are valid. I think the > KISS principle should apply. Do we agree? Yeah, let's keep the infrastructure down to a web page or so. Each item that qualifies for a logo gets a mention on the web page, and may have links to: o A port kit to install it. o A vendor web page advertising the product. o A FreeBSD web page with notes from the team that tested the product and/or wrote the installer. (For "Works with" products) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 17:32:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04842 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:32:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04815 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:32:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA20151; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:55:13 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA03238; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:55:11 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981029105511.E25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:55:11 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <36374AFD.CABEEEED@softweyr.com> <19981029092915.P25247@freebie.lemis.com> <3637AB15.91CF6EFA@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <3637AB15.91CF6EFA@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 04:39:01PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 16:39:01 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Jason C. Wells wrote: >> When I say the process of "Works with" should be transparent I mean that >> any software should be as easy to install as a FreeBSD port. The Linux >> Netscape port is a prime example. The Linux Netscape is as easy to install >> as any native software. This requires no development of a giant >> infrastructure. > > Greg Lehey replied: >> This is where we're beginning to diverge. I don't want to exclude >> *anything* which can be got to work with FreeBSD, even if it's >> difficult. That's why I said "at least two" categories in an earlier >> message. You could consider differentiating again between >> (e.g. Linux) software which has FreeBSD installation support and that >> which doesn't. StarOffice on CD is probably not easy to install on >> FreeBSD; it's the port that does that. If a port exists, and the >> manufacturer distributes the package on his CD-ROM, then we should >> give him extra credit for that, even if it's not a native FreeBSD >> port. > > And I don't want to hold up the logo even for someone to write a port, > but I realize this could be important, so I'm willing to go along with > what appears to be consensus on this point. Not from me. I agree. You don't need a port, it must just be possible to have the assurance that if you buy this application in a shop and take it home, you'll be able to get it working with FreeBSD. Maybe not easily, but if you expend enough effort it won't become shelfware. On the other hand, because some of these could be painful, I'd like to have a different text on the certification sticker. > This does give us a pretty good definition of what qualifies as "Works > with FreeBSD," too: if a port kit can be created that will install the > software and make it work on FreeBSD, it qualifies for the logo. I > guess the hardware analogy would be "a working FreeBSD device driver > exists for this hardware." ...and is supplied with the hardware. ...and you'll have to find it yourself. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 18:10:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11384 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:10:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11378 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:10:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul6.u.washington.edu (root@saul6.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.1]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id SAA20042; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:10:39 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul6.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id SAA18221; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:10:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:10:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Greg Lehey cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. In-Reply-To: <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked >at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies >installation aids for FreeBSD users". If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my vote is that that is still "Designed for". Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit presumptuous. Any better ideas? "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 18:13:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11880 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:13:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11871 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:13:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA20591; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:43:34 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA00639; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:43:25 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:43:25 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 06:10:24PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 18:10:24 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked >> at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies >> installation aids for FreeBSD users". > > If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my > vote is that that is still "Designed for". Then you're not providing any incentive for people to do a true FreeBSD port. > Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit > presumptuous. Any better ideas? > > "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. It's an idea. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 18:17:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12359 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:17:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12309 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:16:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul5.u.washington.edu (root@saul5.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.3]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id SAA39224; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:16:45 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id SAA21339; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:16:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:16:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Greg Lehey cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: <19981029092915.P25247@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >StarOffice on CD is probably not easy to install on FreeBSD; it's the >port that does that. If a port exists, and the manufacturer distributes >the package on his CD-ROM, then we should give him extra credit for >that, even if it's not a native FreeBSD port. Absolutely. This would fall under "Designed for". The communcation hangup here is in the definition of "native". Perhaps a vendor builds a FreeBSD software product. Maybe the vendor knows nothing of "FreeBSD Ports(tm)". I would still call this a "native port" because it was explicitly made to run on FreeBSD without emulation. The vendor gets the extra recognition. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 18:35:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14967 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:35:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14940 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:35:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA04976; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:35:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:35:23 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Tommy Hallgren cc: FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Record In-Reply-To: <19981028121614.15322.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Tommy Hallgren wrote: > Shouldn't we take advantage of the record ftp.cdrom.com set some days > ago by writing some "official statement" and post it to places like > slashdot.org and yahoo? > > Regards, Tommy - did miss the announcement Perhaps it would be possible to get the folks responsible to the last ftp.cdrom.com record to do another one or help. Wasn't it partly done by the ISP. I know if I were runnig the ISP, I'd be pretty pleased to let the world that I could provide that level of wservice that ftp.cdrom.com is unfettered by network bandwidth. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 18:45:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16567 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:45:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16562 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:45:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul2.u.washington.edu (root@saul2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.21]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id SAA28052; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:45:41 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id SAA04868; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:45:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:45:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Wes Peters cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. In-Reply-To: <3637B0EC.3A482360@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >Yeah, let's keep the infrastructure down to a web page or so. Each item >that qualifies for a logo gets a mention on the web page, and may have >links to: > > o A port kit to install it. > o A vendor web page advertising the product. > o A FreeBSD web page with notes from the team that tested the product > and/or wrote the installer. (For "Works with" products) I submit that the ports collection websites be adapted for this purpose. This infrastructure already exists. http://www.freebsd.org/ports/index.html Maybe we can update the preamble on this document to explain the branding. Then we can descend the ports tree with 'sed' and tack on some code to display the logos in the DESCR (or reasonable substitute) or maybe have the cgi that runs that show do it for us. This idea handles the port kit. It can handle a link to the vendor. The notes can go right in the DESCR. Some "expression based" programming/parsing can easily handle all of this once it is known what is "Designed for" and what is "Works with" Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 18:52:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17599 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:52:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17593 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:52:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA13128; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:51:40 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:51:39 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Drew Baxter cc: Greg Lehey , "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981028192208.009a6ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > I dunno, I was expecting something perhaps square. That would be a pretty > large label (even compressed down some) to put on a box or something like > that.. The SCO OK, the Win95, The Netware, all of those have some sort of > a uniform size.. > > > --- > Drew "Droobie" Baxter > Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) > OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 > http://www.droo.orland.me.us > My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 I'm not familiar with these logos, can you give me a URL to look at? If so, I may be able to come up with something comprable, although I would suggest having someone skilled actually design the finished logos :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] [ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] [ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 18:55:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17876 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:55:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17871 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:55:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au) Received: (from ncb05@localhost) by banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA12595; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:55:37 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:55:37 +1100 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: Greg Lehey , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: : "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. Not necessarily. I can picture a very cute chucky, dressed up like a fierce tribal warrior, holding a trident instead of a spear. I think it'd look quite cool if that had an attached 'FreeBSD Native' on it. :) : Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering : Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ Nick -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au - http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~nick Key fingerprint = DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 19:00:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18348 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:00:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA18338 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:00:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA13158; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:00:15 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:00:15 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: Greg Lehey , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > > >It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked > >at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies > >installation aids for FreeBSD users". > > If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my > vote is that that is still "Designed for". > > Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit > presumptuous. Any better ideas? > > "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > Perhaps to cover all three major cases, there could be three labels? FreeBSD Native : runs without emulation FreeBSD Compatible : runs with emulation, no or trivial effort needed FreeBSD Adaptible : runs with emulation, non trivial work needed [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] [ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] [ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 19:05:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18730 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:05:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA18719 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:05:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA13187; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:04:33 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:04:33 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Wes Peters cc: "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. In-Reply-To: <3637B0EC.3A482360@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > > > > We will have two logos. "Works with" and "Designed for". Do we agree? > > > > The test for "Works with" should be a simple "can it run under some sort > > of emulation?" (E.G acroread) > > Right. Several others, including Greg Lehey, have mentioned adding the > additional qualification of "a port kit that will install this software > EXISTS." I'm coming around to this; it provides us with a good, finite > test of whether a software product really qualifies for the logo. > > Agreement? Shouts of dislike? > I think this could be a very useful test. Not necessarily if the people behind the software provide a port, but if one can be made at all. Building and testing the port itself would be a simple and effective way to verify the claim and decide which label would be awarded. > Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? > > Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 > Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] [ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] [ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 19:18:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19832 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:18:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19827 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:18:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from xroot@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18743; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:19:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199810290319.TAA18743@implode.root.com> To: Adrian Filipi-Martin cc: Tommy Hallgren , FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Record In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:35:23 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:19:50 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Tommy Hallgren wrote: > >> Shouldn't we take advantage of the record ftp.cdrom.com set some days >> ago by writing some "official statement" and post it to places like >> slashdot.org and yahoo? >> >> Regards, Tommy - did miss the announcement > > Perhaps it would be possible to get the folks responsible to the >last ftp.cdrom.com record to do another one or help. Wasn't it partly >done by the ISP. I know if I were runnig the ISP, I'd be pretty pleased >to let the world that I could provide that level of wservice that >ftp.cdrom.com is unfettered by network bandwidth. I think you're refering to the joint press release that CRL and I hammered out back in July: http://www.crl.com/wccdromrcd.html This was for the 417GB day, which is very old news now. The current record, set a few days ago, is 724GB. When we made the July press release, we were informed that actually Netscape/globalcenter believe they hold the record at 2TB/day. Of course this was with a hundred or more servers at several locations...and was one day back in late '97. We're currently doing more than 1/2TB per day, every day, on a single uni-processor P6/200. In any case, I was thinking that the next press release should be made when we top 1TB/day in traffic. I'm also thinking we'll do a press release, jointly with CRL, when we move to gigabit ethernet and also, jointly with Micron and possibly Intel, when we upgrade the server to the Xeon/400. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 19:23:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20347 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:23:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20342 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:23:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4014.ime.net [209.90.195.24]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id WAA03503; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:22:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981028222019.00a2cee0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:20:33 -0500 To: Licia From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) Cc: Greg Lehey , "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981028192208.009a6ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:51 PM 10/28/98 -0600, Licia wrote: >On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > > > >> I dunno, I was expecting something perhaps square. That would be a pretty >> large label (even compressed down some) to put on a box or something like >> that.. The SCO OK, the Win95, The Netware, all of those have some sort of >> a uniform size.. >> >> >> --- >> Drew "Droobie" Baxter >> Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) >> OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 >> http://www.droo.orland.me.us >> My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT >1998 > >I'm not familiar with these logos, can you give me a URL to look at? >If so, I may be able to come up with something comprable, although >I would suggest having someone skilled actually design the finished >logos :) > If I don't stop posting at the top, Jason's going to come over and tommyknock me I'm sure. Anyway, I was thinking this because of the Addtron network card boxes. Unfortunately I can't find the array anywhere, and my scanner doesn't plug into my new SCSI controller.. Look on any peripheral that features a designed for Win95, YES (netware), SCO OK, etc logo. They all look pretty much uniform.. Like less than 1x1 (inches). I'm guessing maybe there's some sort of a spec around for these? --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 19:51:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23454 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:51:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA23448 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:51:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul5.u.washington.edu (root@saul5.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.3]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id TAA35102; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:51:04 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id TAA04544; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:51:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:50:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Greg Lehey cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. In-Reply-To: <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >Then you're not providing any incentive for people to do a true >FreeBSD port. We need to define somethings here. hmmmm. Your the man with the ORA book on porting but I will throw these ideas out there so I can understand things better. True FreeBSD Port: Software that has a "port kit" and installs on FreeBSD cleanly with absolutely no extra effort required by the user or FreeBSD, Inc. AnyOld FreeBSD Port: Software that has a "port kit" but the user or FreeBSD. Inc has to tinker to get it to work right or create the "port kit". "Works with" Port: Software that runs under emulation. Are these the distinctions that you are making? Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 20:01:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24665 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:01:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24660 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:00:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul3.u.washington.edu (root@saul3.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.1]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id UAA15808 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:00:58 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id UAA19394 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:00:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:00:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There are two ways to approach this issue. One is developer-centric and one is consumer-centric. (I currently see a 1, 2, or 3 brand system being discussed.) On the consumer-centric approach. I think that a single brand that tells consumers that this software will work with FreeBSD is adequate. I think that adding multiple brands would be counter productive. On the developers end of the stick. We can offer more incentive to vendors who go the extra step to make software work "out of the box" by providing and honorific. We want to attract developers. We want to attract consumers. We want to do both effectively. In any case, we need to figure out how many brands and what qualifications each brand must meet. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 20:38:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28919 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:38:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28914 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:38:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02969; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:37:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Licia cc: "Jason C. Wells" , Greg Lehey , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:00:15 CST." Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:37:52 -0800 Message-ID: <2965.909635872@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For a simple discussion of images, this thread has gotten insanely long. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 20:39:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28987 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:39:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28981 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:39:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02984; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:38:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Greg Lehey cc: Kirk McKusick , FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: Use of the Daemon to promote FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:11:09 +1030." <19981029101109.A25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:38:56 -0800 Message-ID: <2981.909635936@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > objections? You can find the current designs on > http://www.o-o.org/misc/logos.html, though I expect they'll change a > little. One hopes. All these graphics are pretty weak. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 20:41:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29623 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:41:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA29614 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:41:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA17284; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:39:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:39:55 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Wes Peters cc: "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Record In-Reply-To: <3637B196.E46DD672@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, > That needs to be sent to article@daemonnews.org, or it won't work. > Note the lack of an 's' there. either article or articles@daemonnews.org will work (I added an alias to the alias). :-) Brett ****************************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ "There is something uncanny in the noiseless rush of the cyclist, as he comes into view, passes by, and disappears." - Popular Science, 1891 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 20:48:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00574 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:48:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00566 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:48:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA17335; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:46:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:46:56 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin cc: Tommy Hallgren , FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Record In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I keep hearing about this new record and... I can't find any reference to anything other than the old one in July when 2.2.7 was released. I went to www.crl.net and they have no press release there (yes, I checked the press release section). I went to http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html and it does appear that there was a pretty good spike when 3.0 went out but ... I haven't heard anything about a record on the lists here or anywhere else... Maybe I missed it? Brett ****************************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ "There is something uncanny in the noiseless rush of the cyclist, as he comes into view, passes by, and disappears." - Popular Science, 1891 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 20:51:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00990 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:51:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00774 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:50:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4023.ime.net [209.90.195.33]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id XAA03570; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:50:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981028234206.00a3dca0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:45:49 -0500 To: "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:00 PM 10/28/98 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >There are two ways to approach this issue. One is developer-centric and >one is consumer-centric. > >(I currently see a 1, 2, or 3 brand system being discussed.) > >On the consumer-centric approach. I think that a single brand that tells >consumers that this software will work with FreeBSD is adequate. I think >that adding multiple brands would be counter productive. > >On the developers end of the stick. We can offer more incentive to vendors >who go the extra step to make software work "out of the box" by providing >and honorific. > >We want to attract developers. We want to attract consumers. We want to do >both effectively. > >In any case, we need to figure out how many brands and what qualifications >each brand must meet. > >Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering >Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > I'm thinking 2 would work. Designed For = Ported.. Works With = Via Emulation (Or a BSDI Exec that happens to work, or whatnot).. FreeBSD Native is kinda nerdy, but it does have its pros and cons too. Wouldn't "Made With FreeBSD" be a little less nerdy? --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 20:53:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01217 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:53:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01205 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:53:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4023.ime.net [209.90.195.33]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id XAA03574; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:53:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981028234726.00a5b2e0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:49:01 -0500 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Licia From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , Greg Lehey , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <2965.909635872@time.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:37 PM 10/28/98 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >For a simple discussion of images, this thread has gotten insanely >long. > >- Jordan Yeah it's the collaboration thing I guess. Considering how much stuff is being thrown back and forth, a session on IRC is strangely looking more appropriate. At the same time, -Advocacy is almost beating how many messages I get from -hackers in an average day.. :-) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 21:41:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05169 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:41:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05153 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:41:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA21237; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:11:24 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA04168; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:10:50 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981029161049.Q25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:10:49 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Licia , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, not-jordan-hubbard@nowhere Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Licia on Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 09:00:15PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 21:00:15 -0600, Licia wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: >> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked >>> at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies >>> installation aids for FreeBSD users". >> >> If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my >> vote is that that is still "Designed for". >> >> Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit >> presumptuous. Any better ideas? >> >> "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. > > Perhaps to cover all three major cases, there could be three labels? > > FreeBSD Native : runs without emulation > FreeBSD Compatible : runs with emulation, no or trivial effort needed > FreeBSD Adaptible : runs with emulation, non trivial work needed A good start. At least the categories are easy to understand. We need to consider whether the words "native", "compatible" and "adaptable" create the same impression on a potential buyer as they do on us. Any other ideas? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 21:43:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05326 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:43:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05321 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:43:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA21252; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:13:04 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA04181; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:13:03 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981029161303.R25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:13:03 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 07:50:50PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 19:50:50 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Then you're not providing any incentive for people to do a true >> FreeBSD port. > > We need to define somethings here. > > hmmmm. Your the man with the ORA book on porting but I will throw these > ideas out there so I can understand things better. > > True FreeBSD Port: Software that has a "port kit" and installs on FreeBSD > cleanly with absolutely no extra effort required by the user or FreeBSD, > Inc. > > AnyOld FreeBSD Port: Software that has a "port kit" but the user or > FreeBSD. Inc has to tinker to get it to work right or create the "port > kit". > > "Works with" Port: Software that runs under emulation. > > Are these the distinctions that you are making? Hmm. Not quite. I think Licia put it more succinctly. Two of the categories are non-native: if it's ported specifically to FreeBSD, it's the best category. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 28 23:25:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14110 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:25:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14105 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:25:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id CAA11376; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:25:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:25:04 -0500 (EST) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: David Greenman cc: Adrian Filipi-Martin , Tommy Hallgren , FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Record In-Reply-To: <199810290319.TAA18743@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, David Greenman wrote: > In any case, I was thinking that the next press release should be made when > we top 1TB/day in traffic. I'm also thinking we'll do a press release, jointly > with CRL, when we move to gigabit ethernet and also, jointly with Micron and > possibly Intel, when we upgrade the server to the Xeon/400. Again im going to TRY and get a time line out of you for these items :-) Can you give ANY time frame for the above two items? Gigabit? Xeon? Chris -- "You both seem to be ignoring the fact that the networking market is driven by so-called 'IT professionals' these days, most of whom can't tell the difference between an ARP and a carp." --Wes Peters ===================================| Open Systems FreeBSD Consulting. FreeBSD 3.0 is available now! | Phone: (402)573-9124 / ICQ # 20016186 -----------------------------------| 3335 N. 103 Plaza, Omaha, NE 68134 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting, Network Engineering, Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 02:09:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02220 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:09:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02207 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:09:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) Received: from brunos-sun.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.185]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5/S-4.0) with SMTP; id KAA17418; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:09:14 GMT Received: locally by brunos-sun (SMI-8.6/QMW-client-3.2b); poster "scott"; id KAA28527; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:08:44 GMT Message-ID: <19981029100843.F9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:08:43 +0000 From: Scott Mitchell To: Greg Lehey , Licia , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, not-jordan-hubbard@nowhere Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <19981029161049.Q25247@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981029161049.Q25247@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 04:10:49PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 04:10:49PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 21:00:15 -0600, Licia wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: > >> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>> It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked > >>> at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies > >>> installation aids for FreeBSD users". > >> > >> If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my > >> vote is that that is still "Designed for". > >> > >> Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit > >> presumptuous. Any better ideas? > >> > >> "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. > > > > Perhaps to cover all three major cases, there could be three labels? > > > > FreeBSD Native : runs without emulation > > FreeBSD Compatible : runs with emulation, no or trivial effort needed > > FreeBSD Adaptible : runs with emulation, non trivial work needed > > A good start. At least the categories are easy to understand. We > need to consider whether the words "native", "compatible" and > "adaptable" create the same impression on a potential buyer as they do > on us. Any other ideas? Sorry to step into this so late, but: I think anyone seeing one of these logos on a box in a store probably isn't going to know or care about the difference between 'native', 'compatible' and 'adaptable'. They want to know that it will run on their machine without any major screwing around. I agree that there should be a separate higher level of certification for vendors who bother to produce a FreeBSD-native version, but if something requires more than (maybe) downloading a port to get it working, then does it really deserve to be certified? I suspect (although maybe I'm being unfair) that the kind of person who cares about "Works with..." logos isn't the type to spend hours fiddling around just to get a piece of software installed. Just my 2p worth. Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID |"If I can't have my coffee, I'm just | 0x54B171B9 | like a dried up piece of roast goat" QMW College, London, UK | 0xAA775B8B | -- J. S. Bach. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 02:19:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03579 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:19:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03572 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:19:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA21965; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:49:01 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id UAA04418; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:48:48 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981029204848.W25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:48:48 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Scott Mitchell , Licia , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, not-jordan-hubbard@nowhere Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <19981029161049.Q25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029100843.F9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981029100843.F9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>; from Scott Mitchell on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 10:08:43AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 10:08:43 +0000, Scott Mitchell wrote: > On Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 04:10:49PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 21:00:15 -0600, Licia wrote: >>> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: >>>> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>>> It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked >>>>> at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies >>>>> installation aids for FreeBSD users". >>>> >>>> If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my >>>> vote is that that is still "Designed for". >>>> >>>> Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit >>>> presumptuous. Any better ideas? >>>> >>>> "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. >>> >>> Perhaps to cover all three major cases, there could be three labels? >>> >>> FreeBSD Native : runs without emulation >>> FreeBSD Compatible : runs with emulation, no or trivial effort needed >>> FreeBSD Adaptible : runs with emulation, non trivial work needed >> >> A good start. At least the categories are easy to understand. We >> need to consider whether the words "native", "compatible" and >> "adaptable" create the same impression on a potential buyer as they do >> on us. Any other ideas? > > Sorry to step into this so late, but: I think anyone seeing one of these > logos on a box in a store probably isn't going to know or care about the > difference between 'native', 'compatible' and 'adaptable'. They want to > know that it will run on their machine without any major screwing > around. Agreed. This suggests that the base logo should look the same for all three (two?) classes of certification. > I agree that there should be a separate higher level of certification for > vendors who bother to produce a FreeBSD-native version, but if something > requires more than (maybe) downloading a port to get it working, then does > it really deserve to be certified? Yes. There aren't that many commercial products that work with FreeBSD. We want to have them all. But you're right, it doesn't deserve to be certified to the same level as those that work out of the box. For example, I'm currently looking for a scanner. You can buy scanners for almost nothing nowadays, but do they work with FreeBSD? If I don't have much money, I may prefer to buy one for $50 less and download the port. What I want to know is whether the &(*&^*^Y*& will work at all. > I suspect (although maybe I'm being unfair) that the kind of person > who cares about "Works with..." logos isn't the type to spend hours > fiddling around just to get a piece of software installed. There are lots of different people who care about these logos, including myself. I don't think you should jump to conclusions about their technical expertise or interest. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 02:59:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA09042 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:59:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA09022 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:58:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) Received: from brunos-sun.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.185]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5/S-4.0) with SMTP; id KAA20019; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:58:52 GMT Received: locally by brunos-sun (SMI-8.6/QMW-client-3.2b); poster "scott"; id KAA28618; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:58:21 GMT Message-ID: <19981029105821.G9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:58:21 +0000 From: Scott Mitchell To: Greg Lehey , Licia , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <19981029161049.Q25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029100843.F9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <19981029204848.W25247@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981029204848.W25247@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 08:48:48PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 08:48:48PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 10:08:43 +0000, Scott Mitchell wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 04:10:49PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 21:00:15 -0600, Licia wrote: > >>> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: > >>>> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>>>> It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked > >>>>> at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies > >>>>> installation aids for FreeBSD users". > >>>> > >>>> If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my > >>>> vote is that that is still "Designed for". > >>>> > >>>> Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit > >>>> presumptuous. Any better ideas? > >>>> > >>>> "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. > >>> > >>> Perhaps to cover all three major cases, there could be three labels? > >>> > >>> FreeBSD Native : runs without emulation > >>> FreeBSD Compatible : runs with emulation, no or trivial effort needed > >>> FreeBSD Adaptible : runs with emulation, non trivial work needed > >> > >> A good start. At least the categories are easy to understand. We > >> need to consider whether the words "native", "compatible" and > >> "adaptable" create the same impression on a potential buyer as they do > >> on us. Any other ideas? > > > > Sorry to step into this so late, but: I think anyone seeing one of these > > logos on a box in a store probably isn't going to know or care about the > > difference between 'native', 'compatible' and 'adaptable'. They want to > > know that it will run on their machine without any major screwing > > around. > > Agreed. This suggests that the base logo should look the > same for all three (two?) classes of certification. > > > I agree that there should be a separate higher level of certification for > > vendors who bother to produce a FreeBSD-native version, but if something > > requires more than (maybe) downloading a port to get it working, then does > > it really deserve to be certified? > > Yes. There aren't that many commercial products that work with > FreeBSD. We want to have them all. But you're right, it doesn't > deserve to be certified to the same level as those that work out of > the box. > > For example, I'm currently looking for a scanner. You can buy > scanners for almost nothing nowadays, but do they work with FreeBSD? > If I don't have much money, I may prefer to buy one for $50 less and > download the port. What I want to know is whether the &(*&^*^Y*& will > work at all. > > > I suspect (although maybe I'm being unfair) that the kind of person > > who cares about "Works with..." logos isn't the type to spend hours > > fiddling around just to get a piece of software installed. > > There are lots of different people who care about these logos, > including myself. I don't think you should jump to conclusions about > their technical expertise or interest. Point taken. However, I wouldn't want someone with a lot less technical expertise than you and me to buy something on the strength of a FreeBSD certification only to discover that they had to spend hours/days/weeks downloading and configuring other bits of software before they could get it to work. For this reason I think the 'works with a lot of effort' category needs to be very clearly differentiated from the other two, if it exists at all. The credibility of any certification programme won't be enhanced if we go slapping logos all over products that require an inordinate amount of effort to install. If there's a port to automate it all, then great, otherwise you may be in for a nasty surprise when you get the box home. Please understand that I'm entirely in favour of a 'works with FreeBSD' programme -- just don't dilute its' worth by overdoing it! Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID |"If I can't have my coffee, I'm just | 0x54B171B9 | like a dried up piece of roast goat" QMW College, London, UK | 0xAA775B8B | -- J. S. Bach. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 03:33:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11856 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:33:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (intschool.easynet.co.uk [194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA11851 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:33:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (bamboo [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01828; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:06:29 GMT Message-ID: <36384C38.97EABA22@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:06:32 +0000 From: Stuart Henderson Organization: http://ints.ml.org/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Licia CC: "Jason C. Wells" , Greg Lehey , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Licia wrote: > > FreeBSD Native : runs without emulation > FreeBSD Compatible : runs with emulation, no or trivial effort needed > FreeBSD Adaptible : runs with emulation, non trivial work needed By this definition, "Adaptible" could apply to pretty much anything, including most Win95 software and is therefore meaningless. Personally I'd much rather see two categories: /-FreeBSD-\ /-Works-with-\ | | | Tux here?> | \--Native-/ \---FreeBSD--/ No, I'm not an artist either. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 03:51:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13533 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:51:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.svr.freeserve.net (mail2.svr.freeserve.net [195.92.193.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA13527 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from modem-78.vanadium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.11.78] helo=ukonline.co.uk) by mail2.svr.freeserve.net with esmtp (Exim 2.05iplimit-2 #4) id 0zYqbP-0005QP-00; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:50:55 +0000 Message-ID: <3638569D.C8231092@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:50:53 +0000 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: "Jason C. Wells" , Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <36375E2B.7FB07828@softweyr.com> <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 11:15:10 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > > We will have two logos. "Works with" and "Designed for". Do we > > agree? > > No. Well, yes, in principle, but I haven't thought about it enough. > I'm not overly happy with the exact wording "designed for", but I > can't think of anything better at the moment. I think this is a point > that we can bounce around a bit. Also, I'm not sure that three > wouldn't be better, as discussed. > > > The test for "Works with" should be a simple "can it run under some sort > > of emulation?" (E.G acroread) > > OK. > > > The test for "Designed for" should be "can we build it from source?" > > or "did the developer build FreeBSD native > > binaries?". (E.G. netscape and all source available ports) > > Maybe. I'm certainly expecting native FreeBSD binaries to be the > predominant case. > > > Do the above statements seem reasonable? If so, let's set them in > > stone so we can reduce the number of degrees of freedom in this > > problem and work toward a solution. > > It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked > at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies > installation aids for FreeBSD users". > > > I think Wes' concerns about "giant infrastructure" are valid. I > > think the KISS principle should apply. Do we agree? > > Yes, finally :-) > > Greg When the end user aquires the software/hardware, labels and all, how do they know what the label really means? Is there going to be some sort of brief description of the 2(3?) labels, or an expansion saying something like .... designed for FreeBSD this product has been designed since conception for use with FreeBSD type of thing? Just a thought, CR -- Christopher Raven E-mail: c.raven@ukonline.co.uk & ICQ: 2254369 http://www.FreeBSD.org/ "The Power To Serve" http://www.unmetered.org.uk/ "A PC is for life, not just for Xmas" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 03:57:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14120 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:57:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.svr.freeserve.net (mail2.svr.freeserve.net [195.92.193.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14114 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:57:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from modem-78.vanadium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.11.78] helo=ukonline.co.uk) by mail2.svr.freeserve.net with esmtp (Exim 2.05iplimit-2 #4) id 0zYqhD-00065z-00; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:56:56 +0000 Message-ID: <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:56:55 +0000 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 18:10:24 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > > On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > >> It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked > >> at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies > >> installation aids for FreeBSD users". > > > > If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my > > vote is that that is still "Designed for". > > Then you're not providing any incentive for people to do a true > FreeBSD port. > > > Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit > > presumptuous. Any better ideas? > > > > "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. > > It's an idea. > With a picture of the daemon in indian head dress? -- Christopher Raven E-mail: c.raven@ukonline.co.uk & ICQ: 2254369 http://www.FreeBSD.org/ "The Power To Serve" http://www.unmetered.org.uk/ "A PC is for life, not just for Xmas" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 13:07:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22660 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:07:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from joshua.enteract.com (joshua.enteract.com [207.229.129.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA22653 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:07:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from djhoward@joshua.enteract.com) Received: (qmail 27454 invoked by uid 1032); 29 Oct 1998 21:07:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19981029150748.X8390@enteract.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:07:48 -0600 From: dannyman To: "Jason C. Wells" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Re: Dropping Jordan's Name References: <17346.909444119@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 06:22:09PM -0800 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 06:22:09PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > >> Is it appropriate to drop Jordan's name and email in advocacy letters so > >> that respondents to those letters may contact our "Corporate Liaison"? > > > >Just so long as you first seek and obtain my prior approval for any and all > >such "droppings", sure. :-) > > This is what I wanted to know. I had thought of dropping your name to the > RealAudio people, but considered that it might be invasive to do so. Yes, and given ongoing tensions in the Middle East, it's probably best to avoid invading Jordan's space. -danny -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 13:24:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24567 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:24:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.mbc-nsc.com ([204.193.70.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA24560 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:24:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rayseals@midwestis.com) Received: by firewall.mbc-nsc.com; id PAA24790; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:19:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from unknown(172.16.30.26) by firewall.mbc-nsc.com via smap (V3.1.1) id xma024773; Thu, 29 Oct 98 15:19:17 -0500 From: "Ray Seals" To: "Nicholas Charles Brawn" , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: "Greg Lehey" , Subject: RE: Let's nail some things down. Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:26:18 -0600 Message-ID: <001101be0382$c4615ee0$1a1e10ac@rseals.midwestis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I like the tribal warrior look. I also like the 'FreeBSD Native' wording. I think that there should only be 2 classifications. We just need to continue to adhere to a strict quality control standard before these are issued. This is a great opportunity for us. My 2 cents, Ray > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Nicholas Charles > Brawn > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 8:56 PM > To: Jason C. Wells > Cc: Greg Lehey; advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. > > > On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: > > : "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. > > Not necessarily. I can picture a very cute chucky, dressed up like a > fierce tribal warrior, holding a trident instead of a spear. I think > it'd look quite cool if that had an attached 'FreeBSD Native' on it. :) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 13:35:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25768 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:35:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25759 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:35:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4036.ime.net [209.90.195.46]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id QAA04526; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:35:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981029163008.0099a950@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:31:54 -0500 To: "Ray Seals" , "Nicholas Charles Brawn" , "Jason C. Wells" From: Drew Baxter Subject: RE: Let's nail some things down. Cc: "Greg Lehey" , In-Reply-To: <001101be0382$c4615ee0$1a1e10ac@rseals.midwestis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 03:26 PM 10/29/98 -0600, Ray Seals wrote: >I like the tribal warrior look. I also like the 'FreeBSD Native' wording. >I think that there should only be 2 classifications. We just need to >continue to adhere to a strict quality control standard before these are >issued. This is a great opportunity for us. > >My 2 cents, >Ray > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >> [mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Nicholas Charles >> Brawn >> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 8:56 PM >> To: Jason C. Wells >> Cc: Greg Lehey; advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >> Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. >> >> >> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: >> >> : "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. >> >> Not necessarily. I can picture a very cute chucky, dressed up like a >> fierce tribal warrior, holding a trident instead of a spear. I think >> it'd look quite cool if that had an attached 'FreeBSD Native' on it. :) Just as long as we don't end up with a Holy War, or people thinking they're being offended or whatever, all's well. At the same time, 2 is good enough, and 3 is excessive. Works With should just be "requires minimal modification".. If it requires too much modification, the designer should put it in themselves in another tree or something of the CD. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 14:13:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00213 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:13:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00205 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:13:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA23888; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:42:55 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA05780; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:42:54 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981030084254.Y25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:42:54 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Scott Mitchell , Licia , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <19981029161049.Q25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029100843.F9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <19981029204848.W25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029105821.G9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981029105821.G9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>; from Scott Mitchell on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 10:58:21AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 10:58:21 +0000, Scott Mitchell wrote: > On Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 08:48:48PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 10:08:43 +0000, Scott Mitchell wrote: >>> I suspect (although maybe I'm being unfair) that the kind of person >>> who cares about "Works with..." logos isn't the type to spend hours >>> fiddling around just to get a piece of software installed. >> >> There are lots of different people who care about these logos, >> including myself. I don't think you should jump to conclusions about >> their technical expertise or interest. > > Point taken. However, I wouldn't want someone with a lot less technical > expertise than you and me to buy something on the strength of a FreeBSD > certification only to discover that they had to spend hours/days/weeks > downloading and configuring other bits of software before they could get it > to work. For this reason I think the 'works with a lot of effort' category > needs to be very clearly differentiated from the other two, if it exists at > all. Hmm. I suppose this really translates to a question: how much work should we expect purchasers to perform in order to get the product to run. Theoretically any Windoze program will run; we just need to fix Wine or write our own Windoze emulator. In practice, I was thinking of things like "this product doesn't contain FreeBSD specific installation aids, and you're going to have to do it manually". Somewhere between lies the border between "adaptable" and "no go". > The credibility of any certification programme won't be enhanced if we go > slapping logos all over products that require an inordinate amount of > effort to install. If there's a port to automate it all, then great, > otherwise you may be in for a nasty surprise when you get the box home. > > Please understand that I'm entirely in favour of a 'works with FreeBSD' > programme -- just don't dilute its' worth by overdoing it! Agreed. Comments, you others? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 14:14:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00383 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:14:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00376 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:14:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA23892; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:44:17 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA05788; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:44:16 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981030084416.Z25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:44:16 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Christopher Raven Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk>; from Christopher Raven on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 11:56:55AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 11:56:55 +0000, Christopher Raven wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 18:10:24 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >>> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> >>>> It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked >>>> at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies >>>> installation aids for FreeBSD users". >>> >>> If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my >>> vote is that that is still "Designed for". >> >> Then you're not providing any incentive for people to do a true >> FreeBSD port. >> >>> Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit >>> presumptuous. Any better ideas? >>> >>> "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. >> >> It's an idea. > > With a picture of the daemon in indian head dress? I suspect that some ethnic minorities could get quite upset about this sort of thing. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 14:16:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01011 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:16:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00986 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:16:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA23899; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:46:40 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA05799; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:46:39 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981030084638.A25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:46:38 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Drew Baxter , Ray Seals , Nicholas Charles Brawn , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <001101be0382$c4615ee0$1a1e10ac@rseals.midwestis.com> <4.1.19981029163008.0099a950@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981029163008.0099a950@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 04:31:54PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 16:31:54 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 03:26 PM 10/29/98 -0600, Ray Seals wrote: >>> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: >>> >>>> "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. >>> >>> Not necessarily. I can picture a very cute chucky, dressed up like a >>> fierce tribal warrior, holding a trident instead of a spear. I think >>> it'd look quite cool if that had an attached 'FreeBSD Native' on it. :) >> I like the tribal warrior look. I also like the 'FreeBSD Native' wording. >> I think that there should only be 2 classifications. We just need to >> continue to adhere to a strict quality control standard before these are >> issued. This is a great opportunity for us. > > Just as long as we don't end up with a Holy War, or people thinking they're > being offended or whatever, all's well. At the same time, 2 is good > enough, and 3 is excessive. Works With should just be "requires minimal > modification".. If it requires too much modification, the designer should > put it in themselves in another tree or something of the CD. How about not issuing emblems for the third class, just putting them on the web site? That way we'll have enough space and time to explain the pitfalls to potential purchasers. At the same time we'll have more (I didn't say much :-) leverage to get the vendors to include whatever it takes on their distribution. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 14:37:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03617 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:37:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03604 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:37:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4036.ime.net [209.90.195.46]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id RAA04573; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:37:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981029173248.00996ec0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:33:14 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , Christopher Raven From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981030084416.Z25247@freebie.lemis.com> References: <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:44 AM 10/30/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 11:56:55 +0000, Christopher Raven wrote: >> Greg Lehey wrote: >>> >>> On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 18:10:24 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >>>> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>> >>>>> It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked >>>>> at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies >>>>> installation aids for FreeBSD users". >>>> >>>> If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my >>>> vote is that that is still "Designed for". >>> >>> Then you're not providing any incentive for people to do a true >>> FreeBSD port. >>> >>>> Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit >>>> presumptuous. Any better ideas? >>>> >>>> "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. >>> >>> It's an idea. >> >> With a picture of the daemon in indian head dress? > >I suspect that some ethnic minorities could get quite upset about this >sort of thing. > >Greg That's why I said what I did.. I think sticking with the 2 for now would be logical. That's just me. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 14:49:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05538 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:49:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05513 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:49:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA24093; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:19:36 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA05948; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:19:27 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981030091927.D5846@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:19:27 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Drew Baxter , Christopher Raven Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981030084416.Z25247@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981029173248.00996ec0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981029173248.00996ec0@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 05:33:14PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 17:33:14 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 08:44 AM 10/30/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 11:56:55 +0000, Christopher Raven wrote: >>> Greg Lehey wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 18:10:24 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked >>>>>> at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies >>>>>> installation aids for FreeBSD users". >>>>> >>>>> If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my >>>>> vote is that that is still "Designed for". >>>> >>>> Then you're not providing any incentive for people to do a true >>>> FreeBSD port. >>>> >>>>> Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit >>>>> presumptuous. Any better ideas? >>>>> >>>>> "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. >>>> >>>> It's an idea. >>> >>> With a picture of the daemon in indian head dress? >> >> I suspect that some ethnic minorities could get quite upset about this >> sort of thing. >> >> Greg > > That's why I said what I did.. I think sticking with the 2 for now would > be logical. That's just me. My understanding was that we should drop the "will work if you try hard enough" category. The "native" category is definitely the one we want to keep. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 14:51:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05969 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:51:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from knecht.Sendmail.ORG (knecht.sendmail.org [209.31.233.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05867 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:51:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mckusick@flamingo.McKusick.COM) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root@flamingo.mckusick.com [209.31.233.178]) by knecht.Sendmail.ORG (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA19895; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04134; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:52:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199810292252.OAA04134@flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Use of the Daemon to promote FreeBSD? cc: FreeBSD advocacy list In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:11:09 +1030." <19981029101109.A25247@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:52:32 -0800 From: Kirk McKusick Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:11:09 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Kirk McKusick Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Use of the Daemon to promote FreeBSD? WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Kirk, some people in the FreeBSD-advocacy group are planning to set up a certification scheme for commercial software found to work with FreeBSD. They've come up with some logos that they want to encourage vendors to put on their shrink wrap. This would only be permissible if the product has been found to work with FreeBSD. Do you have any objections? You can find the current designs on http://www.o-o.org/misc/logos.html, though I expect they'll change a little. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key I think that the idea of having a certification program is a good one provided that there is some teeth to it to make sure that it really means something. Clearly the use of the daemon meets my criterion that he be used in the context of BSD software. As usual I would like recognition of my copyright somewhere. It need not be on the label itself as long as it is contained in the associated packaging somewhere. I personally like the standing daemon (facing to the left as originally drawn by John Lasseter) or the traditional FreeBSD daemon walking forward. However, anything non-obscene is fine with me. Kirk McKusick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 14:56:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07013 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:56:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07002 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:56:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4036.ime.net [209.90.195.46]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id RAA04592; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:56:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981029175105.00a08600@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:51:29 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , Christopher Raven From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981030091927.D5846@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.1.19981029173248.00996ec0@genesis.ispace.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981030084416.Z25247@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981029173248.00996ec0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:19 AM 10/30/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 17:33:14 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >> At 08:44 AM 10/30/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 11:56:55 +0000, Christopher Raven wrote: >>>> Greg Lehey wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 18:10:24 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> It's too early to cast them in stone. In addition, we haven't looked >>>>>>> at the third category, the "not FreeBSD, but vendor supplies >>>>>>> installation aids for FreeBSD users". >>>>>> >>>>>> If the vendor built binaries for us and provides the install aids,then my >>>>>> vote is that that is still "Designed for". >>>>> >>>>> Then you're not providing any incentive for people to do a true >>>>> FreeBSD port. >>>>> >>>>>> Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit >>>>>> presumptuous. Any better ideas? >>>>>> >>>>>> "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. >>>>> >>>>> It's an idea. >>>> >>>> With a picture of the daemon in indian head dress? >>> >>> I suspect that some ethnic minorities could get quite upset about this >>> sort of thing. >>> >>> Greg >> >> That's why I said what I did.. I think sticking with the 2 for now would >> be logical. That's just me. > >My understanding was that we should drop the "will work if you try >hard enough" category. The "native" category is definitely the one we >want to keep. > >Greg Yeah.. That makes sense.. "Native" and "Works With" is how it should go.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 14:57:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07219 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:57:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.mbc-nsc.com ([204.193.70.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07204 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:57:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rayseals@midwestis.com) Received: by firewall.mbc-nsc.com; id QAA03250; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:52:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from unknown(172.16.30.26) by firewall.mbc-nsc.com via smap (V3.1.1) id xma003195; Thu, 29 Oct 98 16:51:34 -0500 From: "Ray Seals" To: "Greg Lehey" , "Drew Baxter" , "Nicholas Charles Brawn" , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: Subject: RE: Let's nail some things down. Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:58:35 -0600 Message-ID: <001201be038f$a87b1d80$1a1e10ac@rseals.midwestis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <19981030084638.A25247@freebie.lemis.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Greg Lehey > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 4:17 PM > To: Drew Baxter; Ray Seals; Nicholas Charles Brawn; Jason C. Wells > Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. > > > On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 16:31:54 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > > At 03:26 PM 10/29/98 -0600, Ray Seals wrote: > >>> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Jason C. Wells wrote: > >>> > >>>> "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. > >>> > >>> Not necessarily. I can picture a very cute chucky, dressed up like a > >>> fierce tribal warrior, holding a trident instead of a spear. I think > >>> it'd look quite cool if that had an attached 'FreeBSD Native' > on it. :) > >> I like the tribal warrior look. I also like the 'FreeBSD > Native' wording. > >> I think that there should only be 2 classifications. We just need to > >> continue to adhere to a strict quality control standard before > these are > >> issued. This is a great opportunity for us. > > > > Just as long as we don't end up with a Holy War, or people > thinking they're > > being offended or whatever, all's well. At the same time, 2 is good > > enough, and 3 is excessive. Works With should just be "requires minimal > > modification".. If it requires too much modification, the > designer should > > put it in themselves in another tree or something of the CD. > > How about not issuing emblems for the third class, just putting them > on the web site? That way we'll have enough space and time to explain > the pitfalls to potential purchasers. At the same time we'll have > more (I didn't say much :-) leverage to get the vendors to include > whatever it takes on their distribution. > > Greg On the issue of political correctness. I say that we shouldn't put a head dress on Chuck, but replace his trident with a shield. Head dress would be specific, shield would be a more generic symbol. The shield similar to this: | (|) ( | ) ( | ) ( | ) (|) | Greg, I agree 100%. There has to be value and that is one of the things we can all be proud of. FreeBSD is a quality product. Ray To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 15:05:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08523 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:05:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08510 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:05:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA24169; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:35:04 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA05993; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:34:59 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981030093459.F5846@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:34:59 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Kirk McKusick Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: Use of the Daemon to promote FreeBSD? References: <19981029101109.A25247@freebie.lemis.com> <199810292252.OAA04134@flamingo.McKusick.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810292252.OAA04134@flamingo.McKusick.COM>; from Kirk McKusick on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 02:52:32PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 14:52:32 -0800, Kirk McKusick wrote: > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:11:09 +1030 > From: Greg Lehey > To: Kirk McKusick > Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list > Subject: Use of the Daemon to promote FreeBSD? > WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog > Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia > Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 > Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 > Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 > > Kirk, some people in the FreeBSD-advocacy group are planning to set up > a certification scheme for commercial software found to work with > FreeBSD. They've come up with some logos that they want to encourage > vendors to put on their shrink wrap. This would only be permissible > if the product has been found to work with FreeBSD. Do you have any > objections? You can find the current designs on > http://www.o-o.org/misc/logos.html, though I expect they'll change a > little. > > I think that the idea of having a certification program is a good > one provided that there is some teeth to it to make sure that it > really means something. Agreed. We're currently discussing that. Want to participate? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 15:08:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09575 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:08:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail4.svr.freeserve.net (mail4.svr.freeserve.net [195.92.193.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09557 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:08:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from modem-97.lithium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.1.97] helo=ukonline.co.uk) by mail4.svr.freeserve.net with esmtp (Exim 2.05iplimit-2 #4) id 0zZ1A8-0000I6-00; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:07:28 +0000 Message-ID: <3638F52E.D79862C8@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:07:26 +0000 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981030084416.Z25247@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > >> > >> Then you're not providing any incentive for people to do a true > >> FreeBSD port. > >> > >>> Now that you have mentioned it. Perhaps "Designed for" is a bit > >>> presumptuous. Any better ideas? > >>> > >>> "FreeBSD Native" is good but perhaps nerdy. > >> > >> It's an idea. > > > > With a picture of the daemon in indian head dress? > > I suspect that some ethnic minorities could get quite upset about this > sort of thing. > Point taken. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 15:17:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10775 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10764 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:17:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA08045; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:13:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA26247; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:13:51 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id QAA25492; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:13:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3638F6A9.1D526912@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:13:45 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: Scott Mitchell , Licia , "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Let's get back on track. References: <19981029161049.Q25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029100843.F9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <19981029204848.W25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029105821.G9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <19981030084254.Y25247@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Scott Mitchell wrote: > > The credibility of any certification programme won't be enhanced if we go > > slapping logos all over products that require an inordinate amount of > > effort to install. If there's a port to automate it all, then great, > > otherwise you may be in for a nasty surprise when you get the box home. > > > > Please understand that I'm entirely in favour of a 'works with FreeBSD' > > programme -- just don't dilute its' worth by overdoing it! > Greg Lehey wrote: > > Agreed. Comments, you others? Yeah, let's see if we can get this discussion back on track. I've thought about this a lot overnight (instead of staying up all night scribing email messages ;^) and have decided that branding something that can't be installed by an ordinary, non-programmer "superuser" is not appropriate. Licia commented sometime yesterday that FreeBSD ports for these applications could be provided by users, and wouldn't necessarily have to come from the vendor. You could've knocked me over with a feather! I *NEVER* intended for vendors to write FreeBSD port kits; I had always imagined this to be the logical finishing point of the FreeBSD volunteers who test and install the application in the first place. So, let me re-propose the following two categories. I'll use my original names; we can fight about that later on. Works with FreeBSD: An application that was not written for FreeBSD, but can be made to run on FreeBSD *reliably.* A FreeBSD port kit has been developed and posted on the FTP server that will install the application from a download or from vendor-supplied media. Again, the classical example of this is the Linux version of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Since the port kit already exists, this logo could be awarded to Acrobat immediately. The port kit in this case is a requirement because it both verifies that the application can be run on FreeBSD as long as the precursor requirements are met, and because it enables any reasonably adept system administrator to install the application such that it will work. Designed for FreeBSD: An application with FreeBSD binaries and a FreeBSD installation program, from the vendor. A FreeBSD port kit (created by FreeBSD volunteers) that auto- mates the install process in a "standard" installation MAY be available to simplify installation. The classical example for this category is Communicator. Netscape provides FreeBSD executables and an install program for FreeBSD; a port kit is available that will automate the installation. The port kit in this case is not REQUIRED; the application already includes an installation program that will install the product on FreeBSD. A port kit, developed by FreeBSD volunteers, may make the product easier to install, and will be linked on the web page if present. The reason for two levels of "logoization" is to provide extra recognition for those vendors who have gone the extra mile and made their applications specifically for FreeBSD. This applies to Netscape, soon to be for Applix- ware, and for a number of other really cool companies. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 15:19:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11129 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:19:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail4.svr.freeserve.net (mail4.svr.freeserve.net [195.92.193.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11119 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from modem-97.lithium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.1.97] helo=ukonline.co.uk) by mail4.svr.freeserve.net with esmtp (Exim 2.05iplimit-2 #4) id 0zZ1Kj-000338-00; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:18:25 +0000 Message-ID: <3638F7BB.8E445019@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:18:19 +0000 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter CC: Greg Lehey , "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. References: <4.1.19981029173248.00996ec0@genesis.ispace.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981030084416.Z25247@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981029173248.00996ec0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981029175105.00a08600@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Drew Baxter wrote: > At 09:19 AM 10/30/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 17:33:14 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > >> At 08:44 AM 10/30/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>> On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 11:56:55 +0000, Christopher Raven wrote: > >>>> Greg Lehey wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 18:10:24 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > >>>>>> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>>>>> > >My understanding was that we should drop the "will work if you try > >hard enough" category. The "native" category is definitely the one we > >want to keep. > > > >Greg > > Yeah.. That makes sense.. "Native" and "Works With" is how it should go.. > Drifting from the point a bit, but is anyone here in University / College? It's seems to be *agreed* that the images used for the "Native" and "Works With" labels should be of the highest *caliber*; well I feel sure that MANY excellent designs could be got for free from art department and their students. If we were to have a competition(?) with the winner getting to have their winning image pasted left right and centre about the WWW, on packaging and so on. The winner would also get to put the design and so forth in their portfolio (not to mention the warm fuzzy glow it would give them?). What do the rest here think? Short of paying a proffessional (or being lucky enough to find a FreeBSD using graphic artist) this seems like a real possibility. We could give a (5 week?) short submission time and see what happens ...... basically, what is their to lose? ........... just my few pence here. CR To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 15:43:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15092 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:43:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from the.oneinsane.net (gw.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15086 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:43:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from insane@the.oneinsane.net) Received: (from insane@localhost) by the.oneinsane.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA17507 for advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:43:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981029154315.A17460@oneinsane.net> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:43:15 -0800 From: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. Reply-To: insane@oneinsane.net References: <19981030084638.A25247@freebie.lemis.com> <001201be038f$a87b1d80$1a1e10ac@rseals.midwestis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <001201be038f$a87b1d80$1a1e10ac@rseals.midwestis.com>; from Ray Seals on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 04:58:35PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD the.oneinsane.net 2.2.7-STABLE X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM X-WWW: http://www.oneinsane.net Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 04:58:35PM -0600, Ray Seals wrote: > > On the issue of political correctness. I say that we shouldn't put a head > dress on Chuck, but replace his trident with a shield. Head dress would be > specific, shield would be a more generic symbol. > > > The shield similar to this: > > > | > (|) > ( | ) > ( | ) > ( | ) > (|) > | > > Greg, I agree 100%. There has to be value and that is one of the things we > can all be proud of. FreeBSD is a quality product. > > Ray > I like the idea of Chuck holding the shield. Just my 2 Cents worth Ron -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void ------------------------------------------------------------------- It's so nice to be insane, nobody asks you to explain. [----------------------------System Info---------------------------] 3:41PM up 22:55, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 15:46:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15778 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:46:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15771 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4014.ime.net [209.90.195.24]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id SAA04634; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:45:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981029184110.0097f100@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:44:01 -0500 To: Christopher Raven From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. Cc: Greg Lehey , "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3638F7BB.8E445019@ukonline.co.uk> References: <4.1.19981029173248.00996ec0@genesis.ispace.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981030084416.Z25247@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981029173248.00996ec0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981029175105.00a08600@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:18 PM 10/29/98 +0000, Christopher Raven wrote: >Drew Baxter wrote: > >> At 09:19 AM 10/30/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 17:33:14 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >> >> At 08:44 AM 10/30/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >>> On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 11:56:55 +0000, Christopher Raven wrote: >> >>>> Greg Lehey wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Wednesday, 28 October 1998 at 18:10:24 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >> >>>>>> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >>>>>> > > > > >> >My understanding was that we should drop the "will work if you try >> >hard enough" category. The "native" category is definitely the one we >> >want to keep. >> > >> >Greg >> >> Yeah.. That makes sense.. "Native" and "Works With" is how it should go.. >> > > > >Drifting from the point a bit, but is anyone here in University / College? >It's seems to be *agreed* that the images used for the "Native" and "Works >With" >labels should be of the highest *caliber*; well I feel sure that MANY excellent >designs could be got for free from art department and their students. If we >were >to have a competition(?) with the winner getting to have their winning image >pasted left right and centre about the WWW, on packaging and so on. The winner >would also get to put the design and so forth in their portfolio (not to >mention >the warm fuzzy glow it would give them?). > >What do the rest here think? Short of paying a proffessional (or being lucky >enough to find a FreeBSD using graphic artist) this seems like a real >possibility. >We could give a (5 week?) short submission time and see what happens ...... >basically, what is their to lose? > > >........... just my few pence here. > > >CR > Yknow that doesn't sound like that bad of an idea. I wonder if there could be some logo put on the FreeBSD page to let people know in case they want to get in on it. As it goes I never got into the University scene, I'm in my last (hopefully last) year of secondary education (Yeah that's High School... High's an emphasis on the average state of being). I lack major graphic talent anyway, I've always been the insane coder with the bizarre hours. Didn't they have some sort of contest on the FreeBSD page one time for artwork? Maybe it was somewhere else. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 15:51:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16397 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:51:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16384 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:51:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4014.ime.net [209.90.195.24]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id SAA04638; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:49:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981029184530.0097e790@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:47:48 -0500 To: Wes Peters , Greg Lehey From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Let's get back on track. Cc: Scott Mitchell , Licia , "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3638F6A9.1D526912@softweyr.com> References: <19981029161049.Q25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029100843.F9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <19981029204848.W25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029105821.G9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <19981030084254.Y25247@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 04:13 PM 10/29/98 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: >Scott Mitchell wrote: > >> > The credibility of any certification programme won't be enhanced if we go >> > slapping logos all over products that require an inordinate amount of >> > effort to install. If there's a port to automate it all, then great, >> > otherwise you may be in for a nasty surprise when you get the box home. >> > >> > Please understand that I'm entirely in favour of a 'works with FreeBSD' >> > programme -- just don't dilute its' worth by overdoing it! >> >Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> Agreed. Comments, you others? > >Yeah, let's see if we can get this discussion back on track. I've thought >about this a lot overnight (instead of staying up all night scribing email >messages ;^) and have decided that branding something that can't be >installed by an ordinary, non-programmer "superuser" is not appropriate. > >Licia commented sometime yesterday that FreeBSD ports for these applications >could be provided by users, and wouldn't necessarily have to come from the >vendor. You could've knocked me over with a feather! I *NEVER* intended >for vendors to write FreeBSD port kits; I had always imagined this to be >the logical finishing point of the FreeBSD volunteers who test and install >the application in the first place. > >So, let me re-propose the following two categories. I'll use my original >names; we can fight about that later on. > >Works with FreeBSD: An application that was not written for FreeBSD, but > can be made to run on FreeBSD *reliably.* A FreeBSD > port kit has been developed and posted on the FTP > server that will install the application from a > download or from vendor-supplied media. > >Again, the classical example of this is the Linux version of Adobe Acrobat >Reader. Since the port kit already exists, this logo could be awarded to >Acrobat immediately. > >The port kit in this case is a requirement because it both verifies that >the application can be run on FreeBSD as long as the precursor requirements >are met, and because it enables any reasonably adept system administrator >to install the application such that it will work. > > >Designed for FreeBSD: An application with FreeBSD binaries and a FreeBSD > installation program, from the vendor. A FreeBSD > port kit (created by FreeBSD volunteers) that auto- > mates the install process in a "standard" installation > MAY be available to simplify installation. > >The classical example for this category is Communicator. Netscape provides >FreeBSD executables and an install program for FreeBSD; a port kit is >available that will automate the installation. > >The port kit in this case is not REQUIRED; the application already includes >an installation program that will install the product on FreeBSD. A port >kit, developed by FreeBSD volunteers, may make the product easier to install, >and will be linked on the web page if present. > >The reason for two levels of "logoization" is to provide extra recognition >for those vendors who have gone the extra mile and made their applications >specifically for FreeBSD. This applies to Netscape, soon to be for Applix- >ware, and for a number of other really cool companies. > >-- > Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? > >Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 >Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com I think you hit the nail on the head. sounds good. I Wonder if Netscape's Communicator CD carries the Unix versions at all, let alone the FreeBSD version. I'd imagine they'd eat up some sort of a logo to stick on the cd.. Oh and at the same time, kudos to Netscape, since we don't see Internet Hygenist (er Explorer) being ported to anything but Mac and Windows. I personally hope it stays that way as well. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 16:22:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20512 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:22:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20506 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:22:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id QAA08582; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:22:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA27653; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:22:41 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id RAA25965; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:22:40 -0700 Message-ID: <363906D0.BE66898F@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:22:40 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <4.1.19981028192208.009a6ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981028222019.00a2cee0@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Drew Baxter wrote: > > Look on any peripheral that features a > designed for Win95, YES (netware), SCO OK, etc logo. They all look pretty > much uniform.. Like less than 1x1 (inches). I'm guessing maybe there's some > sort of a spec around for these? They're 7/8" wide by 1" tall. That's roughly 22 x 26 mm for those of you fortunate enough to live in metric countries. This is a convenient size, though I really LIKE the way my "Powered by FreeBSD sticker dominates my computer at work. ;^) The "Intel Inside" is 3/4" by 7/8". Go figure. I guess they weren't invited to the logo-designing conference, or perhaps there is a separate logo standard for hardware vendors? Figures. ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 16:25:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20754 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:25:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20726 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:25:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4014.ime.net [209.90.195.24]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id TAA04680; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:24:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981029192204.00a69330@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:22:59 -0500 To: Wes Peters From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <363906D0.BE66898F@softweyr.com> References: <4.1.19981028192208.009a6ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981028222019.00a2cee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 05:22 PM 10/29/98 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: >Drew Baxter wrote: >> >> Look on any peripheral that features a >> designed for Win95, YES (netware), SCO OK, etc logo. They all look pretty >> much uniform.. Like less than 1x1 (inches). I'm guessing maybe there's some >> sort of a spec around for these? > >They're 7/8" wide by 1" tall. That's roughly 22 x 26 mm for those of you >fortunate enough to live in metric countries. This is a convenient size, >though I really LIKE the way my "Powered by FreeBSD sticker dominates my >computer at work. ;^) > >The "Intel Inside" is 3/4" by 7/8". Go figure. I guess they weren't >invited to the logo-designing conference, or perhaps there is a separate >logo standard for hardware vendors? Figures. ;^) > Gee, and I was left out? And I was hoping to make something that eats a lot of RAM but yet supports every piece of hardware on the planet. Oh wait, Microsoft beat me to it. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange +1 207 942 0275 / +1 207 471 2719 http://www.droo.orland.me.us To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 16:37:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22884 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:37:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22879 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:37:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul4.u.washington.edu (root@saul4.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.2]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id QAA49562; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:37:14 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id QAA17027; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:37:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:36:58 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Wes Peters cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's get back on track. In-Reply-To: <3638F6A9.1D526912@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >Scott Mitchell wrote: > >> > The credibility of any certification programme won't be enhanced if we go >> > slapping logos all over products that require an inordinate amount of >> > effort to install. If there's a port to automate it all, then great, >> > otherwise you may be in for a nasty surprise when you get the box home. >Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> Agreed. Comments, you others? I almmost posted this myself but refrained after I saw you opinion. I agree. >Yeah, let's see if we can get this discussion back on track. I've thought >about this a lot overnight (instead of staying up all night scribing email >messages ;^) and have decided that branding something that can't be >installed by an ordinary, non-programmer "superuser" is not appropriate. Again, I agree. >You could've knocked me over with a feather! I *NEVER* intended for >vendors to write FreeBSD port kits; I had always imagined this to be the >logical finishing point of the FreeBSD volunteers who test and install >the application in the first place. This is, in fact, what we currently do and I don't think we should change it one bit. >So, let me re-propose the following two categories. I'll use my original >names; we can fight about that later on. I have spawned a new thread to this effect. >Works with FreeBSD: An application that was not written for FreeBSD, but > can be made to run on FreeBSD *reliably.* A FreeBSD > port kit has been developed and posted on the FTP > server that will install the application from a > download or from vendor-supplied media. I can add nothing to this at all. I like it. >Again, the classical example of this is the Linux version of Adobe Acrobat >Reader. Since the port kit already exists, this logo could be awarded to >Acrobat immediately. Yes let's. Where are our artists? >Designed for FreeBSD: An application with FreeBSD binaries and a FreeBSD > installation program, from the vendor. A FreeBSD > port kit (created by FreeBSD volunteers) that auto- > mates the install process in a "standard" installation > MAY be available to simplify installation. I can add nothing to this either. It is short, sweet, and to the point. >The classical example for this category is Communicator. Netscape provides >FreeBSD executables and an install program for FreeBSD; a port kit is >available that will automate the installation. >The reason for two levels of "logoization" is to provide extra recognition >for those vendors who have gone the extra mile and made their applications >specifically for FreeBSD. This applies to Netscape, soon to be for Applix- >ware, and for a number of other really cool companies. Having read every last post on these threads, I think this will be a go. In fact, I am saving this post for inclusion in any subsequent HTMLization for branding. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 16:54:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24790 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:54:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from knecht.Sendmail.ORG (knecht.sendmail.org [209.31.233.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24785 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:54:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mckusick@flamingo.McKusick.COM) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root@flamingo.mckusick.com [209.31.233.178]) by knecht.Sendmail.ORG (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20351; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:54:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04275; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:53:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199810300053.QAA04275@flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Use of the Daemon to promote FreeBSD? cc: FreeBSD advocacy list In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:34:59 +1030." <19981030093459.F5846@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:53:28 -0800 From: Kirk McKusick Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:34:59 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Kirk McKusick Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: Use of the Daemon to promote FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199810292252.OAA04134@flamingo.McKusick.COM>; from Kirk McKusick on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 02:52:32PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 14:52:32 -0800, Kirk McKusick wrote: > I think that the idea of having a certification program is a good > one provided that there is some teeth to it to make sure that it > really means something. Agreed. We're currently discussing that. Want to participate? Greg I do not have any experience in the area of vendor certification, so I am not sure that I have much to contribute. I am curious to hear what you come up with for proposals. Kirk McKusick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 16:59:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25492 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25483 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:58:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA24683; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:28:54 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA06524; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:28:47 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981030112847.I5846@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:28:47 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Kirk McKusick Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: Use of the Daemon to promote FreeBSD? References: <19981030093459.F5846@freebie.lemis.com> <199810300053.QAA04275@flamingo.McKusick.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810300053.QAA04275@flamingo.McKusick.COM>; from Kirk McKusick on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 04:53:28PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 16:53:28 -0800, Kirk McKusick wrote: > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:34:59 +1030 > From: Greg Lehey > To: Kirk McKusick > Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list > Subject: Re: Use of the Daemon to promote FreeBSD? > In-Reply-To: <199810292252.OAA04134@flamingo.McKusick.COM>; > from Kirk McKusick on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 02:52:32PM -0800 > WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog > Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia > Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 > Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 > Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 > > On Thursday, 29 October 1998 at 14:52:32 -0800, Kirk McKusick wrote: > > > I think that the idea of having a certification program is a good > > one provided that there is some teeth to it to make sure that it > > really means something. > > Agreed. We're currently discussing that. Want to participate? > > I do not have any experience in the area of vendor certification, > so I am not sure that I have much to contribute. I am curious to > hear what you come up with for proposals. I don't think anybody here has much experience in vendor certification. That's not necessarily a bad idea, though of course it has its pitfalls. I'll keep you informed of progress, unless you want to sign up for FreeBSD-advocacy. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 16:59:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25597 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:59:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25583 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:59:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul5.u.washington.edu (root@saul5.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.3]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id QAA12298; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:30:28 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id QAA24487; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:30:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:30:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Wes Peters cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: What names? In-Reply-To: <3638F6A9.1D526912@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >Works with FreeBSD: An application that was not written for FreeBSD, but > can be made to run on FreeBSD *reliably.* A FreeBSD > port kit has been developed and posted on the FTP > server that will install the application from a > download or from vendor-supplied media. >Designed for FreeBSD: An application with FreeBSD binaries and a FreeBSD > installation program, from the vendor. A FreeBSD > port kit (created by FreeBSD volunteers) that auto- > mates the install process in a "standard" installation > MAY be available to simplify installation. I spawned this thread to brainstorn ONLY the names. (if such a thing is possible) I like these two designations in their conception. The naming to me is still a little bit off. The "Native" designation has been tossed about. So what wording do we all like for the two designations? I really like "Works with" because it says what it means. I say "Works with" makes the cut. Of the "Designed for"/"Native" designations neither really strikes me as catchy. If others really like one of these two, then let's hear it. Else, I have urped up some ideas. Perhaps this thread will live a one iteration life. We will see. So here is a complete brainstorm. Perhaps it will spark our imagination. 100% FreeBSD Compatible FreeBSD Certified Built for FreeBSD Built with FreeBSD FreeBSD Approved Designed for FreeBSD FreeBSD Native Native FreeBSD Perfect for FreeBSD I Like FreeBSD FreeBSD Software FreeBSD Compatible Software Use Me With FreeBSD Runs on FreeBSD I like the 100% FreeBSD Compatible as it has a degree of "certainness" to it. It says what it means too. This software is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT compatible. I think it also has a more distintion than "Works with". Just given this list with no replies from the list I say the two categories should be: Works with FreeBSD <== IAW the above "Works with" 100% FreeBSD Compatible <== IAW the above "Designed for" Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 18:06:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24092 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:06:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24042 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:06:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA78764; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:05:39 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3638F7BB.8E445019@ukonline.co.uk> References: <4.1.19981029173248.00996ec0@genesis.ispace.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981029101428.B25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029124325.O25247@freebie.lemis.com> <36385807.FEA163C0@ukonline.co.uk> <19981030084416.Z25247@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981029173248.00996ec0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981029175105.00a08600@genesis.ispace.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:04:45 -0500 To: Christopher Raven , Drew Baxter From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. Cc: Greg Lehey , "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:18 PM +0000 10/29/98, Christopher Raven wrote: > It's seems to be *agreed* that the images used for the "Native" and > "Works With" labels should be of the highest *caliber*; well I feel > sure that MANY excellent designs could be got for free from art > department and their students. If we were to have a competition(?) > with the winner getting to have their winning image pasted left > right and centre about the WWW, on packaging and so on. The winner > would also get to put the design and so forth in their portfolio > (not to mention the warm fuzzy glow it would give them?). > > What do the rest here think? Short of paying a proffessional (or > being lucky enough to find a FreeBSD using graphic artist) this > seems like a real possibility. We could give a (5 week?) short > submission time and see what happens ...... As mentioned somewhere in one of these recent threads, back on Oct 2nd Jordan floated the idea that we might want to go with "New artwork for 3.0 CD cover?". Shortly thereafter he found out that there wasn't enough time to pull together new artwork for the 3.0 release, but I think the floor is still open for newer CD artwork for the next version released (schedule for January 1999, I believe). We might want to consider this "artwork" issue along with that, and separate the 'artwork' part of the certification thread from the nuts and bolts of what catagories there should be and how we will certify products into those catagories. And I personally think the nuts and bolts part of certification needs to be fleshed out a bit more before we worry about the artwork that goes along with it... --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 29 18:18:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04831 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:18:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04822 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12205; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:17:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Garance A Drosihn cc: Christopher Raven , Drew Baxter , Greg Lehey , "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's nail some things down. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:04:45 EST." Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:17:36 -0800 Message-ID: <12201.909713856@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > As mentioned somewhere in one of these recent threads, back on > Oct 2nd Jordan floated the idea that we might want to go with > "New artwork for 3.0 CD cover?". Shortly thereafter he found > out that there wasn't enough time to pull together new artwork > for the 3.0 release, but I think the floor is still open for > newer CD artwork for the next version released (schedule for > January 1999, I believe). I may be having a dutch graphics design house doing it - I talked to them recently in Arnhem and need to send them a list of initial ideas for Daemon poses (I'm open to suggestions). I'd ideally like them to do 3-4 pictures for various purposes in the first round rather than just having a one-size-fits-all graphic. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 01:07:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07816 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:07:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07811 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:07:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) Received: from brunos-sun.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.185]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5/S-4.0) with SMTP; id JAA20847; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:07:11 GMT Received: locally by brunos-sun (SMI-8.6/QMW-client-3.2b); poster "scott"; id JAA11241; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:06:39 GMT Message-ID: <19981030090639.L9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:06:39 +0000 From: Scott Mitchell To: Drew Baxter , Wes Peters , Greg Lehey Cc: Licia , "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's get back on track. References: <19981029161049.Q25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029100843.F9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <19981029204848.W25247@freebie.lemis.com> <19981029105821.G9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <19981030084254.Y25247@freebie.lemis.com> <3638F6A9.1D526912@softweyr.com> <4.1.19981029184530.0097e790@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981029184530.0097e790@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 06:47:48PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 06:47:48PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 04:13 PM 10/29/98 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > >Scott Mitchell wrote: > > > >> > The credibility of any certification programme won't be enhanced if we go > >> > slapping logos all over products that require an inordinate amount of > >> > effort to install. If there's a port to automate it all, then great, > >> > otherwise you may be in for a nasty surprise when you get the box home. > >> > > >> > Please understand that I'm entirely in favour of a 'works with FreeBSD' > >> > programme -- just don't dilute its' worth by overdoing it! > >> > >Greg Lehey wrote: > >> > >> Agreed. Comments, you others? > > > >Yeah, let's see if we can get this discussion back on track. I've thought > >about this a lot overnight (instead of staying up all night scribing email > >messages ;^) and have decided that branding something that can't be > >installed by an ordinary, non-programmer "superuser" is not appropriate. > > > >Licia commented sometime yesterday that FreeBSD ports for these applications > >could be provided by users, and wouldn't necessarily have to come from the > >vendor. You could've knocked me over with a feather! I *NEVER* intended > >for vendors to write FreeBSD port kits; I had always imagined this to be > >the logical finishing point of the FreeBSD volunteers who test and install > >the application in the first place. > > > >So, let me re-propose the following two categories. I'll use my original > >names; we can fight about that later on. > > > >Works with FreeBSD: An application that was not written for FreeBSD, but > > can be made to run on FreeBSD *reliably.* A FreeBSD > > port kit has been developed and posted on the FTP > > server that will install the application from a > > download or from vendor-supplied media. > > > >Again, the classical example of this is the Linux version of Adobe Acrobat > >Reader. Since the port kit already exists, this logo could be awarded to > >Acrobat immediately. > > > >The port kit in this case is a requirement because it both verifies that > >the application can be run on FreeBSD as long as the precursor requirements > >are met, and because it enables any reasonably adept system administrator > >to install the application such that it will work. > > > > > >Designed for FreeBSD: An application with FreeBSD binaries and a FreeBSD > > installation program, from the vendor. A FreeBSD > > port kit (created by FreeBSD volunteers) that auto- > > mates the install process in a "standard" installation > > MAY be available to simplify installation. > > > >The classical example for this category is Communicator. Netscape provides > >FreeBSD executables and an install program for FreeBSD; a port kit is > >available that will automate the installation. > > > >The port kit in this case is not REQUIRED; the application already includes > >an installation program that will install the product on FreeBSD. A port > >kit, developed by FreeBSD volunteers, may make the product easier to install, > >and will be linked on the web page if present. > > > >The reason for two levels of "logoization" is to provide extra recognition > >for those vendors who have gone the extra mile and made their applications > >specifically for FreeBSD. This applies to Netscape, soon to be for Applix- > >ware, and for a number of other really cool companies. > > > >-- > > Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? > > > >Wes Peters > +1.801.915.2061 > >Softweyr LLC > wes@softweyr.com > > I think you hit the nail on the head. sounds good. > > I Wonder if Netscape's Communicator CD carries the Unix versions at all, > let alone the FreeBSD version. I'd imagine they'd eat up some sort of a > logo to stick on the cd.. > > Oh and at the same time, kudos to Netscape, since we don't see Internet > Hygenist (er Explorer) being ported to anything but Mac and Windows. I > personally hope it stays that way as well. > Yeah, this sounds good. Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID |"If I can't have my coffee, I'm just | 0x54B171B9 | like a dried up piece of roast goat" QMW College, London, UK | 0xAA775B8B | -- J. S. Bach. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 02:52:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA17404 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 02:52:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.svr.freeserve.net (mail2.svr.freeserve.net [195.92.193.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA17399 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 02:52:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from modem-35.argon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.8.163] helo=ukonline.co.uk) by mail2.svr.freeserve.net with esmtp (Exim 2.05iplimit-2 #4) id 0zZCAa-00087w-00; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:52:41 +0000 Message-ID: <36399A67.EDDE61EF@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:52:23 +0000 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" CC: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What names? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason C. Wells wrote: > > On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > >Works with FreeBSD: An application that was not written for FreeBSD, but > > can be made to run on FreeBSD *reliably.* A FreeBSD > > port kit has been developed and posted on the FTP > > server that will install the application from a > > download or from vendor-supplied media. > > >Designed for FreeBSD: An application with FreeBSD binaries and a FreeBSD > > installation program, from the vendor. A FreeBSD > > port kit (created by FreeBSD volunteers) that auto- > > mates the install process in a "standard" installation > > MAY be available to simplify installation. > > I spawned this thread to brainstorn ONLY the names. (if such a thing is > possible) > > I like these two designations in their conception. The naming to me is > still a little bit off. The "Native" designation has been tossed about. > > So what wording do we all like for the two designations? > > I really like "Works with" because it says what it means. I say "Works > with" makes the cut. > > Of the "Designed for"/"Native" designations neither really strikes me as > catchy. If others really like one of these two, then let's hear it. Else, > I have urped up some ideas. Perhaps this thread will live a one iteration > life. We will see. > > So here is a complete brainstorm. Perhaps it will spark our imagination. > > 100% FreeBSD Compatible > FreeBSD Certified > Built for FreeBSD > Built with FreeBSD > FreeBSD Approved > Designed for FreeBSD > FreeBSD Native > Native FreeBSD > Perfect for FreeBSD > I Like FreeBSD > FreeBSD Software > FreeBSD Compatible Software > Use Me With FreeBSD > Runs on FreeBSD > > > I like the 100% FreeBSD Compatible as it has a degree of "certainness" to > it. It says what it means too. This software is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT > compatible. I think it also has a more distintion than "Works with". > > Just given this list with no replies from the list I say the two > categories should be: > > Works with FreeBSD <== IAW the above "Works with" > 100% FreeBSD Compatible <== IAW the above "Designed for" > Perhaps Freebsd Compatible would better lend itself to the "Works with", and FreeBSD native could stay for the "Designed for"? just my 2 pfenig's worth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 03:06:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19570 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 03:06:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.svr.freeserve.net (mail2.svr.freeserve.net [195.92.193.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA19565 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 03:06:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from modem-94.copper.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.14.94] helo=ukonline.co.uk) by mail2.svr.freeserve.net with esmtp (Exim 2.05iplimit-2 #4) id 0zZCMv-0000cp-00; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:05:25 +0000 Message-ID: <36399D73.B4A166DA@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:05:23 +0000 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Garance A Drosihn , Drew Baxter , Greg Lehey , "Jason C. Wells" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Artwork References: <12201.909713856@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As the artwork seems to be cluttering the central discussion, I have spun it off to its own thread here. Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > As mentioned somewhere in one of these recent threads, back on > > Oct 2nd Jordan floated the idea that we might want to go with > > "New artwork for 3.0 CD cover?". Shortly thereafter he found > > out that there wasn't enough time to pull together new artwork > > for the 3.0 release, but I think the floor is still open for > > newer CD artwork for the next version released (schedule for > > January 1999, I believe). > > I may be having a dutch graphics design house doing it - I talked to > them recently in Arnhem and need to send them a list of initial ideas > for Daemon poses (I'm open to suggestions). I'd ideally like them to > do 3-4 pictures for various purposes in the first round rather than > just having a one-size-fits-all graphic. > > - Jordan If we have arrived at an approximate *understanding* that there should be two awards, one for the fully compliant and one for the not so (details still being thrashed out for them), then there is IMO no reason why artwork should be delayed ~ as said above, the CDROM artwork was delayed ~ artwork doesn't happen overnight. Artwork takes time and evolves. The fact that we don't know quite where it's going doesn't mean we shouldn't still keep it rolling. What happens if the standards are agreed, but artwork is still weeks / months away? I still think the college / University source for art is a good one. Is there an overlap between Walnut Creek's and the award artwork approaching here? just my 2 kroner worth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 03:44:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA22856 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 03:44:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA22845 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 03:44:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) Received: from brunos-sun.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.185]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5/S-4.0) with SMTP; id LAA10138; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:43:54 GMT Received: locally by brunos-sun (SMI-8.6/QMW-client-3.2b); poster "scott"; id LAA19530; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:43:22 GMT Message-ID: <19981030114322.M9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:43:22 +0000 From: Scott Mitchell To: Christopher Raven , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What names? References: <36399A67.EDDE61EF@ukonline.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <36399A67.EDDE61EF@ukonline.co.uk>; from Christopher Raven on Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 10:52:23AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 10:52:23AM +0000, Christopher Raven wrote: > Jason C. Wells wrote: [..snip..] > > > > So here is a complete brainstorm. Perhaps it will spark our imagination. > > > > 100% FreeBSD Compatible > > FreeBSD Certified > > Built for FreeBSD > > Built with FreeBSD > > FreeBSD Approved > > Designed for FreeBSD > > FreeBSD Native > > Native FreeBSD > > Perfect for FreeBSD > > I Like FreeBSD > > FreeBSD Software > > FreeBSD Compatible Software > > Use Me With FreeBSD > > Runs on FreeBSD > > > > > > I like the 100% FreeBSD Compatible as it has a degree of "certainness" to > > it. It says what it means too. This software is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT > > compatible. I think it also has a more distintion than "Works with". > > > > Just given this list with no replies from the list I say the two > > categories should be: > > > > Works with FreeBSD <== IAW the above "Works with" > > 100% FreeBSD Compatible <== IAW the above "Designed for" > > > > > Perhaps Freebsd Compatible would better lend itself to the "Works > with", and FreeBSD native could stay for the "Designed for"? 'Compatible' does perhaps sound a bit more positive than 'works with', it may be a better way to go. OTOH 'native' might confuse folks who don't know/care what it means in this context. 'Designed for' isn't quite right either -- something like Communicator clearly isn't designed specifically for 'BSD, even though there are native binaries. I think 'built for' conveys the meaning of the higher level certification adequately, although it's not particularly exciting as a slogan. I like Jason's 100% idea -- it would be great to work that in somewhere. Maybe "100% FreeBSD" or somesuch. Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID |"If I can't have my coffee, I'm just | 0x54B171B9 | like a dried up piece of roast goat" QMW College, London, UK | 0xAA775B8B | -- J. S. Bach. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 14:31:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03387 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:31:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03381 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:31:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22821; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:31:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd022791; Fri Oct 30 15:31:30 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10092; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:31:25 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810302231.PAA10092@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) To: reg@shale.csir.co.za (Jeremy Lea) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:31:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, grog@lemis.com, wes@softweyr.com, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981028092740.A3113@shale.csir.co.za> from "Jeremy Lea" at Oct 28, 98 09:27:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I was thinking in terms of a script (or package) that used the > > output of "pkg_info -a -q" (or set dependencies) such that the > > installation was straight-forward, given the commercial vendor's > > installation media. > > Why not just have a new ports category called "commercial"? That way it is > easy to make sure the software installs on all versions of FreeBSD, etc. and > that the required dependencies are installed. Obviously this would require > that FreeBSD, Inc. be supplied with demo copies of all the software :) I still think there is a need for a FreeBSD "install presence" on the distributed commercial software. It's not like you'd be asking for a large portion of CDROM realestate. It's not a hard requirement, but it should be strongly encouraged. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 14:42:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04824 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:42:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04818 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:42:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id OAA18991; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:42:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id OAA20514; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:42:39 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id PAA03064; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:42:38 -0700 Message-ID: <363A40DE.42EB3424@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:42:38 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <199810302231.PAA10092@usr05.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > I still think there is a need for a FreeBSD "install presence" on > the distributed commercial software. It's not like you'd be > asking for a large portion of CDROM realestate. > > It's not a hard requirement, but it should be strongly encouraged. I agree, if they're going to put one of our logos on their product, they should include the installer on the media. If we're "advertising" their product(s) on the FreeBSD web pages, we certainly don't have much leverage to force the installer onto their media. The "Designed for FreeBSD", or "Pure FreeBSD" category already assumes a FreeBSD install program, of course. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 14:53:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06093 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:53:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06087 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:53:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28376; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:53:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd028343; Fri Oct 30 15:53:13 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10713; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:53:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810302253.PAA10713@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) To: jcwells@u.washington.edu Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:53:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jason C. Wells" at Oct 28, 98 06:16:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >StarOffice on CD is probably not easy to install on FreeBSD; it's the > >port that does that. If a port exists, and the manufacturer distributes > >the package on his CD-ROM, then we should give him extra credit for > >that, even if it's not a native FreeBSD port. > > Absolutely. This would fall under "Designed for". > > The communcation hangup here is in the definition of "native". Perhaps a > vendor builds a FreeBSD software product. Maybe the vendor knows nothing > of "FreeBSD Ports(tm)". I would still call this a "native port" because it > was explicitly made to run on FreeBSD without emulation. The vendor gets > the extra recognition. I would like to see three categories: o Can be made to run with effort "Runs on FreeBSD" This is the "publicity" tool, where anything that can be made to run, painfully, or as a result of a downloading install stuff from some other unknown place gets "branded". o The logo should be small to avoid real-estate concerns o Multiple logo form-factors should be available. o Install tools, but non-native binaries "FreeBSD Friendly" This is the "give the users the warm fuzzies" tool. I think it is important to give a purchase incentive to people to make the logo valuable for vendors to have on their software. If people have confidence in a rather pain-free install process, they will be more likely to shell out money for the software to run it on FreeBSD. o The logo should be small to avoid real-estate concerns o This is a true branding effort. There should be one logo, although scaling (within limits) should be at the discretion of the vendor. o Native binaries. "Designed for FreeBSD" This is the "vendor reward" tool. o The logo should be larger. o This is a true branding effort. There should be one logo, although scaling (within limits) should be at the discretion of the vendor. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 15:04:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06762 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:04:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06757 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:04:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02543; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:04:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd002469; Fri Oct 30 16:03:58 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA11237; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:03:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810302303.QAA11237@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Internet Explorer and UNIX To: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com (Drew Baxter) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 23:03:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, grog@lemis.com, scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk, licia@o-o.org, jcwells@u.washington.edu, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981029184530.0097e790@genesis.ispace.com> from "Drew Baxter" at Oct 29, 98 06:47:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Oh and at the same time, kudos to Netscape, since we don't see Internet > Hygenist (er Explorer) being ported to anything but Mac and Windows. I > personally hope it stays that way as well. Actually, you can download it for Solaris from the Microsoft Internet Explorer WWW site. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 15:08:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07212 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:08:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07193 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:08:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4030.ime.net [209.90.195.40]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id SAA05942; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:07:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981030180454.00a6a560@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:05:48 -0500 To: Terry Lambert From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Internet Explorer and UNIX Cc: wes@softweyr.com, grog@lemis.com, scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk, licia@o-o.org, jcwells@u.washington.edu, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810302303.QAA11237@usr05.primenet.com> References: <4.1.19981029184530.0097e790@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:03 PM 10/30/98 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Oh and at the same time, kudos to Netscape, since we don't see Internet >> Hygenist (er Explorer) being ported to anything but Mac and Windows. I >> personally hope it stays that way as well. > >Actually, you can download it for Solaris from the Microsoft >Internet Explorer WWW site. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org Watch me run to get it.. Not :) They had IE3 for Solaris too if I recall. For some reason people like making stuff for PC, MAC, and Solaris.. heh. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 16:32:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14201 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:32:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14188 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:32:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA00879; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:01:02 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA28002; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:00:58 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981031110058.V5846@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:00:58 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert , Drew Baxter Cc: wes@softweyr.com, scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk, licia@o-o.org, jcwells@u.washington.edu, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Internet Explorer and UNIX References: <4.1.19981029184530.0097e790@genesis.ispace.com> <199810302303.QAA11237@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810302303.QAA11237@usr05.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 11:03:51PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 30 October 1998 at 23:03:51 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Oh and at the same time, kudos to Netscape, since we don't see Internet >> Hygenist (er Explorer) being ported to anything but Mac and Windows. I >> personally hope it stays that way as well. > > Actually, you can download it for Solaris from the Microsoft > Internet Explorer WWW site. I don't think we should certify pirated software. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 16:41:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15726 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:41:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15466 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:41:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4014.ime.net [209.90.195.24]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id TAA06022; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:37:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981030193231.00a6baf0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:34:26 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , Terry Lambert From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Internet Explorer and UNIX Cc: wes@softweyr.com, scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk, licia@o-o.org, jcwells@u.washington.edu, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981031110058.V5846@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199810302303.QAA11237@usr05.primenet.com> <4.1.19981029184530.0097e790@genesis.ispace.com> <199810302303.QAA11237@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:00 AM 10/31/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Friday, 30 October 1998 at 23:03:51 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> Oh and at the same time, kudos to Netscape, since we don't see Internet >>> Hygenist (er Explorer) being ported to anything but Mac and Windows. I >>> personally hope it stays that way as well. >> >> Actually, you can download it for Solaris from the Microsoft >> Internet Explorer WWW site. > >I don't think we should certify pirated software. > >Greg IE for Solaris isn't pirated. and I paid 10 bucks for my copy of Solaris (directly from SUN).. However if you are trying to be creative in saying that IE stole Netscape's code (which is valid in many respects), then ignore my response :) As it goes, my personal bout with Solaris X86 is that it blows. I'm wishing that Netscape will port their servers at least to BSDI (In hopes it'll work on FreeBSD, some BSDI apps do, others don't), or just port it to FreeBSD altogether. But I don't feel bad, because Linux isn't on the options either, it's like DEC UNIX, HPUX, and Solaris.. and in some cases IRIX.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 17:05:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19378 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:05:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19370 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:05:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA00995; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:34:45 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA28043; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:34:11 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981031113411.W5846@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:34:11 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Drew Baxter , Terry Lambert Cc: wes@softweyr.com, scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk, licia@o-o.org, jcwells@u.washington.edu, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Internet Explorer and UNIX References: <199810302303.QAA11237@usr05.primenet.com> <4.1.19981029184530.0097e790@genesis.ispace.com> <199810302303.QAA11237@usr05.primenet.com> <19981031110058.V5846@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981030193231.00a6baf0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981030193231.00a6baf0@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 07:34:26PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 30 October 1998 at 19:34:26 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 11:00 AM 10/31/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Friday, 30 October 1998 at 23:03:51 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>>> Oh and at the same time, kudos to Netscape, since we don't see Internet >>>> Hygenist (er Explorer) being ported to anything but Mac and Windows. I >>>> personally hope it stays that way as well. >>> >>> Actually, you can download it for Solaris from the Microsoft >>> Internet Explorer WWW site. >> >> I don't think we should certify pirated software. >> >> Greg > > IE for Solaris isn't pirated. Yes it is. > and I paid 10 bucks for my copy of Solaris (directly from > SUN).. However if you are trying to be creative in saying that IE > stole Netscape's code (which is valid in many respects), then ignore > my response :) I don't think that's being creative. We don't know how much Netscape code is in IE, but Microsoft has abused Java code in there in violation of the licensing restrictions. In my book, that's piracy. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 17:47:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22562 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:47:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22553 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:46:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4014.ime.net [209.90.195.24]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id UAA06076; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 20:46:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981030204247.00a943d0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 20:42:54 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , Terry Lambert From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Internet Explorer and UNIX Cc: wes@softweyr.com, scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk, licia@o-o.org, jcwells@u.washington.edu, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981031113411.W5846@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.1.19981030193231.00a6baf0@genesis.ispace.com> <199810302303.QAA11237@usr05.primenet.com> <4.1.19981029184530.0097e790@genesis.ispace.com> <199810302303.QAA11237@usr05.primenet.com> <19981031110058.V5846@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981030193231.00a6baf0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:34 AM 10/31/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Friday, 30 October 1998 at 19:34:26 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >> At 11:00 AM 10/31/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> On Friday, 30 October 1998 at 23:03:51 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>>>> Oh and at the same time, kudos to Netscape, since we don't see Internet >>>>> Hygenist (er Explorer) being ported to anything but Mac and Windows. I >>>>> personally hope it stays that way as well. >>>> >>>> Actually, you can download it for Solaris from the Microsoft >>>> Internet Explorer WWW site. >>> >>> I don't think we should certify pirated software. >>> >>> Greg >> >> IE for Solaris isn't pirated. > >Yes it is. > >> and I paid 10 bucks for my copy of Solaris (directly from >> SUN).. However if you are trying to be creative in saying that IE >> stole Netscape's code (which is valid in many respects), then ignore >> my response :) > >I don't think that's being creative. We don't know how much Netscape >code is in IE, but Microsoft has abused Java code in there in >violation of the licensing restrictions. In my book, that's piracy. > >Greg Well I didnt know. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 17:54:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23077 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:54:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23072 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:54:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul6.u.washington.edu (root@saul6.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.1]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id RAA10006; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:54:28 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul6.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id RAA16902; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:54:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:54:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Terry Lambert cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) In-Reply-To: <199810302253.PAA10713@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: >o Can be made to run with effort > > This is the "publicity" tool, where anything that can be made > to run, painfully, or as a result of a downloading install > stuff from some other unknown place gets "branded". I don't like this as a brand. There has been the idea that any of these brands could go on a shrink wrap product. I don't think "half works" of "half broke" should go on anything with the name FreeBSD. FreeBSD goes out of it's way to dissuade people from running -current unless they are developers. Stuff that requires "painful" work is in the realm of developer's level of skill. We should approach neither vendors nor potential customers with developmental software. Catchya Later, | UWMechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 18:18:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25746 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:18:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25741 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:18:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA01187; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:48:32 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA28387; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:48:27 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981031124827.F5846@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:48:27 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert , jcwells@u.washington.edu Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <199810302253.PAA10713@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810302253.PAA10713@usr05.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 10:53:12PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 30 October 1998 at 22:53:12 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> StarOffice on CD is probably not easy to install on FreeBSD; it's the >>> port that does that. If a port exists, and the manufacturer distributes >>> the package on his CD-ROM, then we should give him extra credit for >>> that, even if it's not a native FreeBSD port. >> >> Absolutely. This would fall under "Designed for". >> >> The communcation hangup here is in the definition of "native". Perhaps a >> vendor builds a FreeBSD software product. Maybe the vendor knows nothing >> of "FreeBSD Ports(tm)". I would still call this a "native port" because it >> was explicitly made to run on FreeBSD without emulation. The vendor gets >> the extra recognition. > > I would like to see three categories: > > o Can be made to run with effort > o Install tools, but non-native binaries > o Native binaries. You're late on the scene, Terry. This is exactly what I suggested several days ago. I think that others have made a valid point, though: if we include the first category, we don't give much incentive for them to take the relatively small step to the second category. I think we should refer to the first category in an also-ran web page, but not issue certificates unless they go at least to the second category. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 18:30:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27366 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:30:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27351 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:30:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4014.ime.net [209.90.195.24]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id VAA06150; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:27:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981030212143.00a84420@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:22:18 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , Terry Lambert , jcwells@u.washington.edu From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981031124827.F5846@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199810302253.PAA10713@usr05.primenet.com> <199810302253.PAA10713@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:48 PM 10/31/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Friday, 30 October 1998 at 22:53:12 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>>> StarOffice on CD is probably not easy to install on FreeBSD; it's the >>>> port that does that. If a port exists, and the manufacturer distributes >>>> the package on his CD-ROM, then we should give him extra credit for >>>> that, even if it's not a native FreeBSD port. >>> >>> Absolutely. This would fall under "Designed for". >>> >>> The communcation hangup here is in the definition of "native". Perhaps a >>> vendor builds a FreeBSD software product. Maybe the vendor knows nothing >>> of "FreeBSD Ports(tm)". I would still call this a "native port" because it >>> was explicitly made to run on FreeBSD without emulation. The vendor gets >>> the extra recognition. >> >> I would like to see three categories: >> >> o Can be made to run with effort >> o Install tools, but non-native binaries >> o Native binaries. > >You're late on the scene, Terry. This is exactly what I suggested >several days ago. > >I think that others have made a valid point, though: if we include the >first category, we don't give much incentive for them to take the >relatively small step to the second category. I think we should refer >to the first category in an also-ran web page, but not issue >certificates unless they go at least to the second category. > >Greg That makes sense. It's not like it's going to kill anyone to throw together some install tools. After all, it's a good plug for their product as well to have support for FreeBSD.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 30 23:29:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA23734 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 23:29:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23729 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 23:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (wes@zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA11302; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:29:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <363ABC57.32CF8FEC@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:29:27 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <199810302253.PAA10713@usr05.primenet.com> <19981031124827.F5846@freebie.lemis.com> <363A9508.88E83535@softweyr.com> <19981031153759.H28493@freebie.lemis.com> <363AB79D.3B7CC8EF@softweyr.com> <19981031175022.M28493@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > I guess we're moving towards a consensus here: an installer needs to > > exist for the product, but may be created by either the vendor or > > a FreeBSD contributor. Agreed? > > Yes, if this is a criterion for the badge. I still want an also-ran's > page. > Me too. Let's be nice and call it a "work in progress" page. As was noted before, once somebody's got it working, it's not that much of a leap to get SOMEONE to write a port kit for it, if the demand for the application exists. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Oct 31 01:14:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA00973 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:14:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA00966 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:14:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA02209; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:44:13 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id TAA16538; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:44:12 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981031194412.P28493@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:44:12 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD certified software (was: WordPerfect 8 for Linux) References: <199810302253.PAA10713@usr05.primenet.com> <19981031124827.F5846@freebie.lemis.com> <363A9508.88E83535@softweyr.com> <19981031153759.H28493@freebie.lemis.com> <363AB79D.3B7CC8EF@softweyr.com> <19981031175022.M28493@freebie.lemis.com> <363ABC57.32CF8FEC@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <363ABC57.32CF8FEC@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Sat, Oct 31, 1998 at 12:29:27AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 31 October 1998 at 0:29:27 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> Wes Peters wrote: >> >>> I guess we're moving towards a consensus here: an installer needs to >>> exist for the product, but may be created by either the vendor or >>> a FreeBSD contributor. Agreed? >> >> Yes, if this is a criterion for the badge. I still want an also-ran's >> page. >> > > Me too. Let's be nice and call it a "work in progress" page. Sure, I wasn't really going to call it "also ran". > As was noted before, once somebody's got it working, it's not that > much of a leap to get SOMEONE to write a port kit for it, if the > demand for the application exists. Agreed. We could also have pointers to people who have had success manually, but who haven't made a port. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message