From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Jan 11 12:21:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA02669 for alpha-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:21:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA02650 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:20:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xrTs2-0004mZ-00; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:20:34 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA03212; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:20:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199801112020.NAA03212@harmony.village.org> To: John Birrell Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:48:09 +1100." <199801110548.QAA24424@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> References: <199801110548.QAA24424@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:20:30 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199801110548.QAA24424@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> John Birrell writes: : I've committed a bunch of changes that allow FreeBSD/Alpha to be : bootstrapped from an installed NetBSD/Alpha 1.3 system. The bootstrap : is not complete (after 2.5 days), but it is in a state where people : who want to play can do so using source that they are familiar with. You have been busy. : The bootstrap is not intended to clobber anything on the system you : are using. It uses a modified makefile based on the -current make : world, but unlike that makefile, there is no final install (yet). : The bootstrap will abort long before that. 8-). Good :-) : 1. Mount /usr/src from another (FreeBSD) machine. Is this required? I plan on playing with this this afternoon. Warner From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Jan 11 12:31:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03572 for alpha-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:31:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03492 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:30:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA00321; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:35:46 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199801112035.HAA00321@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha In-Reply-To: <199801112020.NAA03212@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Jan 11, 98 01:20:30 pm" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:35:46 +1100 (EST) Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Warner Losh wrote: > : 1. Mount /usr/src from another (FreeBSD) machine. > > Is this required? No. I tried using a symbolic link from /usr/src to the NFS mounted directory, but I kept getting caught up in the way that the include files and directories are installed. When I mounted the directory directly, these problems went away. I don't know if it is a problem with the style of build that FreeBSD uses or the hybrid tools that result from building one OS on another. If you have source directly in /usr/src you have nothing to worry about. I thought I'd mention it just in case. > > I plan on playing with this this afternoon. Good. I've hacked a local version of version of libc and I'll try to get the build further today (although I really should be working on paid stuff). I need to ask some design questions of a few people before I can finalize how libc will be. I'll only be able to commit changes to libc after those decisions have been made. Regards, -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Jan 11 16:23:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA23376 for alpha-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:23:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA23366 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:23:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from panke.panke.de (anonymous229.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.229]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14287; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:18:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by panke.panke.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA00679; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:42:35 +0100 (MET) To: John Birrell Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha References: <199801110548.QAA24424@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> From: Wolfram Schneider Date: 11 Jan 1998 23:42:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: John Birrell's message of Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:48:09 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Lines: 11 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Birrell writes: > I've committed a bunch of changes that allow FreeBSD/Alpha to be > bootstrapped from an installed NetBSD/Alpha 1.3 system. The bootstrap > is not complete (after 2.5 days), but it is in a state where people > who want to play can do so using source that they are familiar with. Dumb question: is there a big difference between NetBSD/Alpha and OpenBSD/Alpha? -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/ From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Jan 11 16:30:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA24043 for alpha-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:30:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA23969 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:29:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00830; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:35:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199801120035.LAA00830@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha In-Reply-To: from Wolfram Schneider at "Jan 11, 98 11:42:33 pm" To: wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfram Schneider) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:35:01 +1100 (EST) Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wolfram Schneider wrote: > Dumb question: is there a big difference between NetBSD/Alpha > and OpenBSD/Alpha? It's not a dump question, just one I don't know the answer for. 8-) I've not looked at OpenBSD since it was explained to me in private mail why doing so was not a good idea. I decided that I agreed with the author's sentiments. [No flames about this, please] Regards, -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jan 12 10:41:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09709 for alpha-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:41:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09675 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:40:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08670; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:40:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd008634; Mon Jan 12 11:40:49 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA25377; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:40:39 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801121840.LAA25377@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha To: jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (John Birrell) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:40:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: imp@village.org, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801112035.HAA00321@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> from "John Birrell" at Jan 12, 98 07:35:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I plan on playing with this this afternoon. > > Good. > > I've hacked a local version of version of libc and I'll try to get > the build further today (although I really should be working on > paid stuff). I need to ask some design questions of a few people > before I can finalize how libc will be. I'll only be able to commit > changes to libc after those decisions have been made. Another dumb question... I assume that this is all ELF code; is this with or without shared library support of some kind? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jan 12 10:50:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA11071 for alpha-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:50:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10872 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:50:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11396; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:49:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd011373; Mon Jan 12 11:49:51 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA25925; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:49:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801121849.LAA25925@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Alpha port.. To: gibbs@plutotech.com (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:49:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: cjs@portal.ca, dg@root.com, gibbs@plutotech.com, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801100638.XAA25199@pluto.plutotech.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Jan 9, 98 11:36:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > 3) bus dma operations are completed through a software interrupt driven > callback mechanism which allows for you to lazily allocate resources > and even limit the amount of pages allocated for the bounce pool to > be less than the total that might possibly be needed at one time. > On my 32MB system running a tagged queuing capable ISA SCSI adapter > under heavy load, I never saw even 128K of bounce pages in use at a > given time. Allocating the 1MB that NetBSD does for ISA 1542 support > is a waste of memory. I think the intent of this allocation was to provide a split memory domain. All DMA'ing ISA devices, DMA'ing EISA devices on broken chipsets (like HiNT), and Amiga devices accessed through "chip RAM", as well as some systems I'm probably not immediately aware of, have two classes of memory. I think the allocation was to gather up all memory in a class, before it could be fragmented in normal use. I think this is probably still necessary, at least until it's possible to relocate physical memory allocations (something I'm a big fan of to allow for freeing up contiguous zones for lazy allocation of things like quick-cam and QIC-40/80 tape buffers). Right now, there is not the concept of kernel page relocation (a practice only one step removed from generalized kernel paging), and so it is not possible to do a contiguous allocation -- nor to allocate a "chip RAM" (read "low memory") bounce buffer -- after fragmentation has taken place. At worst, this allocation should remain a compile time option; at best, it should remain generally until some form of kernel physical backing page relocation for pages that don't care if they are physically in low memory. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jan 12 11:18:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14918 for alpha-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:18:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14891 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:18:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA03022; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:22:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199801121922.GAA03022@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha In-Reply-To: <199801121840.LAA25377@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 12, 98 06:40:39 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:22:59 +1100 (EST) Cc: imp@village.org, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > I assume that this is all ELF code; is this with or without shared > library support of some kind? ELF with shared library support from GNU binutils. Regards, -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jan 12 12:35:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA25847 for alpha-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:35:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25832 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:35:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gibbs@plutotech.com) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA07053; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:31:20 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199801122031.NAA07053@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: gibbs@plutotech.com (Justin T. Gibbs), cjs@portal.ca, dg@root.com, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha port.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:49:47 GMT." <199801121849.LAA25925@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:29:01 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >I think the intent of this allocation was to provide a split >memory domain. All DMA'ing ISA devices, DMA'ing EISA devices >on broken chipsets (like HiNT), and Amiga devices accessed >through "chip RAM", as well as some systems I'm probably not >immediately aware of, have two classes of memory. Yes, that is the intent, as it is in the bus dma implementation I wrote, but by using a callback mechanism, the system only needs to pre-allocate enough space to handle a single transaction. Allocating additional space will improve performance, but can be performed lazily without preventing the system from running. The amount to pre-allocate should be tunable, but should not be the brute force of (#possible transactions * #possible bounce pages per transaction). The current implementation ensures that there is enough bounce space for at least one full transaction per client when the device requests a dma handle. I could easily add a static initial allocation, but at boot time, I question whether this will gain much since I allocate a page at a time and those pages do not need to be contiguous. For LKMs, the static allocation only postpones the inevitable since that pool could be exhausted at the time of the attach and attempts to add to it could fail without some form of page swapping performed by the kernel. >I think this is probably still necessary, at least until it's >possible to relocate physical memory allocations (something I'm >a big fan of to allow for freeing up contiguous zones for lazy >allocation of things like quick-cam and QIC-40/80 tape buffers). And this would still be possible since even transactions requested from an interrupt context can be deferred if the resources are not immediately available. How those resources are attained is an implementation detail. I'm mostly concerned with making the interface flexible enough in both NetBSD and FreeBSD so that bus dma implementations don't have to needlessly waste space. > Regards, > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. -- Justin From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jan 12 13:39:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA04684 for alpha-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:39:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04407 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:37:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xrrXa-0005Ue-00; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:37:02 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA06273; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:37:06 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199801122137.OAA06273@harmony.village.org> To: John Birrell Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:48:09 +1100." <199801110548.QAA24424@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> References: <199801110548.QAA24424@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:37:06 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199801110548.QAA24424@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> John Birrell writes: : I've committed a bunch of changes that allow FreeBSD/Alpha to be : bootstrapped from an installed NetBSD/Alpha 1.3 system. The bootstrap : is not complete (after 2.5 days), but it is in a state where people : who want to play can do so using source that they are familiar with. Yippie! skippie! For a variety of reasons, I wasn't able to install netbsd on my box this weekend. It will be at least another couple of weeks before it looks like I'll get another chance. So I thought I'd give cross compiling a try. So far I've hacked FreeBSD's contrib/gcc/confiugre to grok alpha-unknown-freebsd as a target. This let me get to the stage where I was able to generate .s files, but lacking a good binutils toolchain, I punted at this point and thought I'd send mail before dragging down the wrong binutils... What does NetBSD/alpha use for tools? Out of the box as, et al from binutils? Or something that has been hacked special for the purpose that hasn't been merged back into the FSF sources yet? Has any thought been given to having a /usr/src/contrib/binutils? That way we could have the x86 elf tools in the tree, as well as the alpha elf tools too. I agree that it is likely too soon to consider integrating something like egcs into the tree, but the only thing this would eat up is disk space. Alternatively, I think it might not be a bad idea to have a binutil port in /usr/ports if the disk space needed is considered excessive. My gut tells me that if FreeBSD 3.0 is Elf, we should do it, otherwise a port is likely more politically correct. Finally, would people object to my adding the 11 lines of code to configure to make it grok the alpha-unknown-freebsd type so that ./configure -target alpha-unknown-freebsd has a chance of working? Comments? Warner From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jan 12 14:16:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09894 for alpha-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:16:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09695 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:15:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA03370; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:20:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199801122220.JAA03370@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha In-Reply-To: <199801122137.OAA06273@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Jan 12, 98 02:37:06 pm" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:20:25 +1100 (EST) Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Warner Losh wrote: > What does NetBSD/alpha use for tools? Out of the box as, et al from > binutils? Or something that has been hacked special for the purpose > that hasn't been merged back into the FSF sources yet? There are a few issues which make the use of the NetBSD patches for the toolchain problematic. The NetBSD patches were developed for CMU based on the combined toolchain source that they get directly form Cygnus. CMU have not released those patches for incorporation in the FSF sources. To make matters worse, the patches were included in the FSF sources sometime last year, but removed at the request of the author when he complained. So where does that leave us? We'll be using the version of gcc that is currently in the tree (2.7.2.1) with the alpha config files added. There are two FreeBSD config files in there at present that need to be replaced by someone who develops a FreeBSD configuration without refering to the NetBSD patches. These new config files should also be submitted to NetBSD to allow them to solve their ownership mess. The important thing here is that the new config files are "new work" derived only from the existing (probably Linux) files. Either Peter Wemm or John Polstra (or someone else they nominate) will import (parts of) the GNU binutils release 2.8.1 (the latest one) and configure that for ELF on both i386 and alpha. They will consider all CVS issues related to that work. Phew. That work should happen sometime soon, subject to people's work load. Until then we can just use the NetBSD binaries except for gcc/cpp because we need the FreeBSD pre-defines. > Finally, would people object to my adding the 11 lines of code to > configure to make it grok the alpha-unknown-freebsd type so that > ./configure -target alpha-unknown-freebsd has a chance of working? Would you mind submitting that as a patch to either Peter Wemm or John Polstra and allow them to do the upgrade in the manner that they see fit. I guess you've noticed that the binutils stuff will default to COFF format if it doesn't recognise the operating system name. Jordan has a NetBSD/Alpha system available for anybody (?) who wants to work on this stuff. As for libc, I've sent a proposal for that to core and I'm waiting on [comments] { OK | NOTOK }. Regards, -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jan 12 16:16:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA24744 for alpha-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:16:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA24539; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:15:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xru04-0005Za-00; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:14:36 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA07392; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:14:40 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199801130014.RAA07392@harmony.village.org> To: John Birrell Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, Peter Wemm , John Polstra In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:20:25 +1100." <199801122220.JAA03370@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> References: <199801122220.JAA03370@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:14:40 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199801122220.JAA03370@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> John Birrell writes: : Would you mind submitting that as a patch to either Peter Wemm or John : Polstra and allow them to do the upgrade in the manner that they see : fit. I guess you've noticed that the binutils stuff will default to : COFF format if it doesn't recognise the operating system name. : Jordan has a NetBSD/Alpha system available for anybody (?) who : wants to work on this stuff. The patch is to gcc. I've included it here since it is really small. Your checkins did most of the magic. I just got configure working. I also had to chmod +x configure and move-if-changed as well, but that is a minor issue. There may also be a minor issue with libgcc1.a, but I don't think FreeBSD/alpha needs it.... I also grabbed NetBSD's toolchain tree today. I think I'll try to use that to build a cross assembler for the alpha, maybe hacking it for use with FreeBSD rather than NetBSD. This stuff is cool :-) Warner Index: configure =================================================================== RCS file: /home/imp/FreeBSD/CVS/src/contrib/gcc/configure,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -u -r1.2 configure --- configure 1996/09/18 06:50:23 1.2 +++ configure 1998/01/12 20:59:01 @@ -931,6 +931,17 @@ # Next line turned off because both 386BSD and BSD/386 use GNU ld. # use_collect2=yes ;; + alpha-*-freebsd*) + cpu_type=alpha + tm_file=alpha/freebsd-elf.h + xm_file=alpha/xm-freebsd.h + # On FreeBSD, the headers are already ok. + fixincludes=Makefile.in + xmake_file=alpha/x-freebsd + gas=yes + gnu_ld=yes + stabs=yes + ;; i[345]86-*-freebsdelf*) cpu_type=i386 tm_file=i386/freebsd-elf.h From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jan 12 16:22:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA25534 for alpha-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:22:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25374; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:21:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03651; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:26:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199801130026.LAA03651@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha In-Reply-To: <199801130014.RAA07392@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Jan 12, 98 05:14:40 pm" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:26:51 +1100 (EST) Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, peter@netplex.com.au, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Warner Losh wrote: > I also grabbed NetBSD's toolchain tree today. I think I'll try to use > that to build a cross assembler for the alpha, maybe hacking it for > use with FreeBSD rather than NetBSD. That's the problem. I've been asked *not* to use it. Although it's available for anon ftp, life will be calmer in the long run if we don't even use that stuff privately. Regards, -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jan 12 16:31:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27082 for alpha-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:31:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27008 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:31:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xruFo-0005aD-00; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:30:52 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA07476; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:30:51 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199801130030.RAA07476@harmony.village.org> To: John Birrell Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:26:51 +1100." <199801130026.LAA03651@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> References: <199801130026.LAA03651@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:30:51 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199801130026.LAA03651@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> John Birrell writes: : That's the problem. I've been asked *not* to use it. Although it's : available for anon ftp, life will be calmer in the long run if we : don't even use that stuff privately. What are the available alternatives? Warner From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jan 12 16:49:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA29037 for alpha-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:49:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA29016 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:49:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03753; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:54:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199801130054.LAA03753@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha In-Reply-To: <199801130030.RAA07476@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Jan 12, 98 05:30:51 pm" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:54:24 +1100 (EST) Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Warner Losh wrote: > In message <199801130026.LAA03651@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> John Birrell writes: > : That's the problem. I've been asked *not* to use it. Although it's > : available for anon ftp, life will be calmer in the long run if we > : don't even use that stuff privately. > > What are the available alternatives? Start with the Linux/Alpha ELF code that is GPL'd and develop from there. I know that's not the easiest way. Regards, -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137