From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 22 04:06:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26528 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 04:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA26460 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 04:06:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA00458; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:06:13 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980322230610.49382@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:06:10 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: FreeBSD Chat Cc: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: doc "renovation" project volunteer References: <19980319163714.47520@welearn.com.au> <3510DD9B.1591459B@dal.net> <19980319212405.55520@welearn.com.au> <35118D5A.6CA23B79@dal.net> <19980320223201.63694@welearn.com.au> <19980320132440.15913@follo.net> <19980321115935.52589@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19980321115935.52589@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sat, Mar 21, 1998 at 11:59:35AM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 21, 1998 at 11:59:35AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > I'm still not convinced that this is going to work. For example, at > the moment I notice a significant resistance to the policy "talk on > -newbies, questions on -questions". If the -newbies list stays, it > will probably have a permanent effect on -questions and possibly on > -hackers and -chat. In addition, a number of self-styled newbies > (including Sue :-) don't seem to be as newbie as I would have > expected. But I think that it needs to find its own feet, and as a > result I'm (currently) respecting Sue's wishes and not making my > presence known on the list. I think we need to review this in, say, a > week's time. That sounded like a reasonable proposition. A lot can happen even in one week. Some people can't wait even that long. It's been made a -doc issue with short term goals and possibly long term effects. I do hope everyone benefits. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 22 08:48:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19496 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:48:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19463 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:47:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id RAA15477 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:47:40 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta2/keltia-2.14/nospam) id RAA20085; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:03:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980322170321.A20071@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:03:21 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Pie in the face (Was Re: going to Baltimore....) Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199803221503.HAA09843@baloon.mimi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.4i In-Reply-To: <199803221503.HAA09843@baloon.mimi.com>; from Satoshi Asami on Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 07:03:51AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4121 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ moved to chat ] According to Satoshi Asami: > to get together (for reasons other than "I want to throw a pie on the > SOB's face"), please drop me a note at this address. I'll be leaving That pie seems to have impressed many people... :-) I still ROTFL when I see it on tape. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sun Mar 1 18:50:39 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 22 12:25:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25771 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:25:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25761 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:25:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08589 for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:25:16 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199803222025.RAA08589@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: ftp.cdrom.com limits ftp bandwidth ? To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:25:16 -0300 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, My network is so logically close to California that most times it's faster to fetch things from ftp.cdrom.com than from other parts of Brasil. And I have always considered ftp speed measurements from ftp.cdrom.com as a theoretical top limit on single connection bandwidth. When we first had our 2M international channel I tested the speed and it was 34kBps for a single ftp transfer. It was not a limit on the link, because I could open a second (and third, and fourth) simultaneous ftp and get the same 34kBps. So I thought that was the TCP window limit for Rio de Janeiro <-> California links. But yesterday (when miraculously we got full speed again), a friend could get things from other places in USA at 50kBps and above rates. I first thought that something changed in our international link and went ftp.cdrom.com to test. Just to get the same 34kBps. So, it seems to me that this 34kBps limit is particular to ftp.cdrom.com. Is this a software limit on DG's ftpd ? Or just a side effect from the relatively small window used on ftp.cdrom.com to conserve memory ? Or maybe http traffic has some performance advantage over ftp traffic ? (I'm not complaining, I'm just curious. I would love if I could get 34kBps everyday and everytime. :) ) Jonny PS: No, it's not a www caching effect. I checked that. :) PS2: All measurements are rough, as they were done by netscape, but were fully reproducible at that time. -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 22 16:28:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05946 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:28:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thunderdome.plutotech.com (root@thunderdome.plutotech.com [206.168.67.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05923 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (ken@panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by thunderdome.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17558; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA17416; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:27:51 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199803230027.RAA17416@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #75 In-Reply-To: <199803222330.QAA29641@usr06.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Mar 22, 98 11:30:52 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:27:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ redirected to -chat ] Terry Lambert wrote... > > And while I have seen a lot of spam from earthlink as well, effective > > procmail filters get rid of almost all of it (95% in my experience, and > > I've made some improvements that seem to have taken that up to 98-99%). > > The best thing about destination filtering like this is that you get > to pay to download the SPAM before you throw it away, so it can count > against your 200 hours (~8 days) before message units kick in on ISDN > links from non-flat-rate providers like Pac Bell and US West (among > others). In Colorado, US West has to charge a flat rate. :) So my ISDN line stays up 24x7. :) Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 22 19:31:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03817 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:31:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA03798 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:31:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 28993 invoked from network); 23 Mar 1998 03:36:36 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 23 Mar 1998 03:36:36 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-031798 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980322212121.26400@delirium.eng.bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:36:36 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Christian Kuhtz , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CURRENT Kernel Status - Moved to chat Cc: Terry Lambert , dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu, Karl Denninger Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Moving to chat not due to lack of significance but as avoidance of unnecessary sparks ] On 23-Mar-98 Christian Kuhtz wrote: ... > Plus, Journaled Filessystems are deeply ingrained in the OS, and not an > afterthought like in Sun's nasty ODS. I wish I had a jfs in FreeBSD. JFS is not the only way towards persistant filesystem. Just a relatively simple way to do it, while maintaining UFS resemblence. I am collecting ideas, while having some of my own. Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 22 20:09:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12060 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:09:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ms11.hinet.net (root@ms11.hinet.net [168.95.4.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12009 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:09:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jwlo@ms11.hinet.net) Received: from ms11.hinet.net (dialup243.cyut.edu.tw [163.17.3.243] (may be forged)) by ms11.hinet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29760 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:11:47 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <3515DFB3.AE22D828@ms11.hinet.net> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:06:11 +0800 From: Doug Lo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: subscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 22 20:49:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19368 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:49:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19359 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:49:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00349; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:43:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803230443.UAA00349@implode.root.com> To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.cdrom.com limits ftp bandwidth ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:25:16 -0300." <199803222025.RAA08589@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:43:46 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > My network is so logically close to California that most times it's >faster to fetch things from ftp.cdrom.com than from other parts of >Brasil. And I have always considered ftp speed measurements from >ftp.cdrom.com as a theoretical top limit on single connection bandwidth. > > When we first had our 2M international channel I tested the speed and >it was 34kBps for a single ftp transfer. It was not a limit on the >link, because I could open a second (and third, and fourth) simultaneous >ftp and get the same 34kBps. So I thought that was the TCP window >limit for Rio de Janeiro <-> California links. > > But yesterday (when miraculously we got full speed again), a friend >could get things from other places in USA at 50kBps and above rates. >I first thought that something changed in our international link and went >ftp.cdrom.com to test. Just to get the same 34kBps. So, it seems to me >that this 34kBps limit is particular to ftp.cdrom.com. > > Is this a software limit on DG's ftpd ? Or just a side effect from >the relatively small window used on ftp.cdrom.com to conserve memory ? >Or maybe http traffic has some performance advantage over ftp traffic ? >(I'm not complaining, I'm just curious. I would love if I could get >34kBps everyday and everytime. :) ) None of the above. The window is the 16KB default (and no, I do not plan to increase that), and we have no bandwidth limiting or other silliness. A ttcp test down to San Diego just now shows about 850KB/sec...it would be higher if the RTT was smaller (it's about 17ms). There are three explainations I can offer: 1) the RTT is sufficiently high that it is limiting the performance to the level that you are seeing - I'm seeing about 250ms right now to your gateway, or 2) congestion has become a problem again at MAE-west where the traffic is interchanged between CRL and cerf.net, or 3) there is enough packet reordering over CRL's aggregated MAE-west circuits that it is magnifying the effect of the large RTT and reducing the performance. Of these, I think this last possibility is the most likely. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 08:38:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15844 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:38:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15791 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:38:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA25358; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:38:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:38:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Ollivier Robert Subject: Some useful procmail UCE filters In-Reply-To: <19980322205417.A21974@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I know not everyone is interested in filtering UCE, but I have received a few requests for my rules. Included are the rules I use that aren't also included in the junkfilter set of procmail rules. First, lets start with disclaimers: These rules will not reduce the amount of bandwidth UCE takes up coming into your system. For that, look at the sendmail patches to deny certain domains, though they are not as precise. Furthermore, I don't believe in /dev/null'ing email, except in cases where there is a 100% certainty that the mail is spam, and these rules aren't there yet. Also, these rules do catch normal spam that goes through unusual channels. For example, some of the people here, for reasons unknown, set up their machine to send their address as something@hotmail.com. These filters will consider those addresses spam, and the only way to get around it is by providing a list of exceptions. Second, I strongly encourage using these rules in conjunction with junkfilter, which you can find at http://mph124b.rh.psu.edu/~gsutter/junkfilter/ I stopped using junkfilter because the license requires you to install a seperate copy of junkfilter for each user, and I admin a site of 50 users who wouldn't recognize a regexp if it introduced itself to them, but the rules found there are much more general than these. Third, these are procmail rules, so you will need to adapt them to your setup, and install procmail if not already done. Finally (for the disclaimers), things change, and these rules need to be kept up to date. If you /dev/null the mail, then sooner or later, something's going to change, say the name of a mailing list changes, or some such, and you'll start loosing mail. I take no responsibility for lost mail, or mail that triggers the filters that is important enough that the delay in finding it causes problems. O.K., now for the rules themselves. This first rule catches better than 50% of the spam that comes to me directly. it does this by catching email that arrives at your mail server without a Message-ID: header, whereupon sendmail puts its own Message-ID on it. It doesn't catch spam sent throught the lists, though you could probably adapt it to do so by looking for Message-IDs coming from the list server, but without from addresses that look like they have anything to do with the list server. :0 * ^Message-ID:[ ]*(<.*@horst\.bfd\.com>) * !^Received.*(localhost|[@\.]bfd\.com).*by horst\.bfd\.com * !^From.*MAILER-DAEMON * !^X-Mailer: TFS Gateway { SPAMMER="our Message-ID on non-locally generated message" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } In this case, horst.bfd.com is our mail server, and all email that gets sent out by us has a domain of bfd.com In the reverse of this, which doesn't catch much spam, but is here anyway, :0E * ^From:.*horst\.bfd\.com * !^Message-ID: <.*@horst\.bfd\.com> { SPAMMER="our local address on non-locally generated message" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } This is saying that if it has a local address, but doesn't have a local Message-ID, then something is fishy. This is also less reliable than the above rule. This rule catches quite a bit of spam sent to the list. It does this by checking the To: and CC: field for the name of the list. This will call anything spam that got BCC'ed to the list, which is most often spam, and occasionally is a spat that I'd rather not get involved with. This rule gets modified every time someone finds a new address for the list and starts using it. it also seems to have a problem for some unknown reason if the list is the second (or possibly later) address on the CC: line. :0 * ^Sender: owner-freebsd-.+@FreeBSD\.ORG * ! ^(to|cc):.*[ <\'\",](freebsd-)?(afs|alpha|announce|bugs|chat|current|\ doc|emulation|fs|isp|hackers|hardware|isdn|java|jobs|mobile|multimedia|\ platforms|ports|questions|scsi|security|smp|sparc|stable|gnats-submit)\ @(hub\.|freefall\.)?freebsd\.org { SPAMMER="via FreeBSD list but not to FreeBSD list" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } Now here's how I detect bogus spam with forged hotmail from addresses. As you can tell, I have two exceptions to these rules, and add other exceptions when I'm in a good mood. :0 * ^From:.*@hotmail\.com * !^Message-Id:.*hotmail\.com> * !^From:.*(nisbar1|kokorota)@hotmail\.com { SPAMMER="my forged hotmail/Message-Id" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } :0 * ^From:.*@hotmail\.com * !^Received:.*(from|by) [^ ]*hotmail\.com * !^From:.*(nisbar1|kokorota)@hotmail\.com { SPAMMER="my forged hotmail/Received" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } the next three rules catch a lot of the spam injected from uu.net, netcom.com and aol.com (the aol.com rule is very general, because the AOL mail relays strip this domain from the message, so that address should never turn up in an email). :0 * ^Received:.*((hotmail|juno|bigfoot|rocketmail|netcom).com|\ (usa|earthlink|netcom).net).*uu.net { SPAMMER="bigfoot/hotmail/juno/rocketmail/usa/earthlink/netcom via uu.net" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } :0 * ^Received:.*((hotmail|juno|bigfoot|rocketmail).com|\ (usa|earthlink|uu).net).*netcom\.(com|net|ca) { SPAMMER="bigfoot/hotmail/juno/rocketmail/usa/earthlink/uunet via netcom.(com|net|ca)" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } :0 * ^Received:.*\([^ ]+\.ipt\.aol\.com { SPAMMER="via aol.com dialup but not passed through aol mailservers" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } Then along comes one of my niftier rules. This basically detects forged Received: headers that some spammers inject into the email so that they can forge an AOL email address and simple spam filters will accept that the email really did come from AOL. This rule can be duplicated for other frequently forged email domains, though I don't recommend simply modifying this one rule to match multiple domains. :0 * ^Received:.* by [^ ]+\.aol\.com * !^Received:.*aol.com.*^Received:.* by [^ ]+\.aol\.com { SPAMMER="forged AOL Received line" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } The next set of rules catches some forged headers where the spammers are just too lazy to make sure their forged headers match the address they're forging. :0 * ^Received:.*[^a-z0-9]hotmail\.com * !From:.*[^a-z0-9]hotmail\.com { SPAMMER="via hotmail.com but not from @hotmail.com" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } :0 * ^Received:.*[^a-z0-9]msn\.com * !From:.*[^a-z0-9]msn\.com { SPAMMER="via msn.com but not from @msn.com" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } :0 * ^Received:.*[^a-z0-9]juno\.com * !From:.*[^a-z0-9]juno\.com { SPAMMER="via juno.com but not from @juno.com" LOG="[$SPAMMER]" } Finally, for those people that are webmasters, you'll love this one. I don't use any of my webmaster@ addresses for sending any email, so if someone is sending to it, they'd better not be BCCing webmaster :0 * ^Received:.*for Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA17148 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:46:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA17140 for freebsd-chat; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:46:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199803231646.IAA17140@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: time to up your pgp keys to 4096 bits? To: freebsd-chat Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:46:38 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org saw this this morning: Monday March 23 9:42 AM EST Science nearing breakthrough in quantum computing SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - Researchers at Los Alamos National Laboratory believe they are just a few years away from reaching an elusive goal in computing -- developing a working quantum computer. In remarks before the annual meeting of the American Physical Society, Los Alamos scientists described how they solved two critical questions blocking the development of these devices: how long the storage media will last, and how long it will take the computing media to complete an operation. A quantum computer is a device that replaces the zeros and ones of PC binary data with photons or ions trapped by electromagnetic fields. Because they are encased in these fields, the ions are in a coherent state for fractions of a second. The obstacle in using ions is that they may lose their coherence too quickly to be useful as a computing resource. The Los Alamos researchers have been able to apply a single laser pulse to a single ion in an electromagnetic trap. >From their demonstration, the researchers said that as many as 100,000 logic operations could be applied to registers that consist of up to 50 trapped ions. It would take but a few microseconds for a register to complete a single operation. Although it is smaller and faster than any silicon-based device, quantum computers are not expected to replace desktop PCs or supercomputers. Instead, these machines would be dedicated to specialized tasks such as generating keys for strong cryptography, an operation that requires a computer to factor very large numbers. (Reuters/Wired) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 08:59:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA18847 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:59:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18776; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:59:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02181; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:59:06 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA05859; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:59:06 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980323175905.05023@follo.net> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:59:05 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , freebsd-chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: time to up your pgp keys to 4096 bits? References: <199803231646.IAA17140@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199803231646.IAA17140@hub.freebsd.org>; from Jonathan M. Bresler on Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 08:46:38AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 08:46:38AM -0800, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > Although it is smaller and faster than any silicon-based device, > quantum computers are not expected to replace desktop PCs or > supercomputers. Instead, these machines would be dedicated to > specialized tasks such as generating keys for strong cryptography, > an operation that requires a computer to factor very large numbers. Just to clear up here: This is about breaking RSA, not 'generation keys'. And if I have understood correctly, quantum computing make factoring a trivial excersise due to 'infinite parallelism'. 4096 bits is unlikely to help; _any_ key length is unlikely to help. Check out the RSA FAQ at http://www.rsa.com/ for some more details and references. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 10:02:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28761 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:02:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28738; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:01:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199803231801.KAA28738@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: time to up your pgp keys to 4096 bits? In-Reply-To: <19980323175905.05023@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Mar 23, 98 05:59:05 pm" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:01:42 -0800 (PST) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@hub.freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 08:46:38AM -0800, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > Although it is smaller and faster than any silicon-based device, > > quantum computers are not expected to replace desktop PCs or > > supercomputers. Instead, these machines would be dedicated to > > specialized tasks such as generating keys for strong cryptography, > > an operation that requires a computer to factor very large numbers. > > Just to clear up here: This is about breaking RSA, not 'generation > keys'. > > And if I have understood correctly, quantum computing make factoring a > trivial excersise due to 'infinite parallelism'. 4096 bits is > unlikely to help; _any_ key length is unlikely to help. not clear to me what level of parallelism they will be to achieve....there is no theortical limit to the degree of parallelism, just the practical limit in constructing the apparatus. the article, for what it is worth, seems to indicate that each register consists of ~50 ions. each would require its own "laser-drivers". each regiester could do 10e5 ops/us or 10e11 ops/sec. so give them 10e12 or 2e40 ops/sec. so how many ops per key test? wanna give them 1 ROFL so 4096 bits or 2e4096 keys. 50% chance of hitting in 2e4095 key tests. one register takes 2e4045 secs how many registers can they build? of course, my math may be worthless, its still earlier than 2pm here ;) jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 10:37:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04730 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:37:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk (jraynard.demon.co.uk [158.152.42.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04706 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:36:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fhackers@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: (from fhackers@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01206; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:36:18 GMT (envelope-from fhackers) Message-ID: <19980323183617.60422@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:36:17 +0000 From: James Raynard To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #75 References: <19980322111844.39246@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: ; from Eric J. Schwertfeger on Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 10:09:11AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Moved to -chat] On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 10:09:11AM -0800, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, James Raynard wrote: > > > Careful - I've seen a lot of spam originating from earthlink.net, > > so this could well be an address-gathering exercise. > > Don't you think it would be easier for the spammer to just subscribe his > address-gathering robot to the list? That would only pick up people who post to the list - sending out an invitation to be flamed seems like an effective way to pull in the lurkers as well. James To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 17:19:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02614 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:19:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic32.pm05.sf3d.best.com [209.24.235.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA02582 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:18:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA26758; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:18:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980323171840.41249@mooseriver.com> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:18:40 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: alfaunex Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OFFER LETTER AND DEMAND. Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <01bd56b8$95552b80$0301a8c0@guszti.alfaunex.sk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <01bd56b8$95552b80$0301a8c0@guszti.alfaunex.sk>; from alfaunex on Tue, Mar 24, 1998 at 01:05:41AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 24, 1998 at 01:05:41AM +0100, alfaunex wrote: [ DELETE ] > k./BARLEY FOR BEER MALT:118 USD/MT Mmmmmmmm, Beer malt. -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 18:33:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15247 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:33:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15237 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:32:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20026; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:02:37 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA17863; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:02:36 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980324130235.21267@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:02:35 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, Tom Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Simon Shapiro on Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 06:31:37PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (following up to -chat) On Mon, 23 March 1998 at 18:31:37 -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: > On 24-Mar-98 Tom wrote: >> >> On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Warner Losh wrote: >> >>> >>> Looking at syscons.c, pcvt/* and sio.c makes me think that this won't >>> be easy or simple to do, but that it is possible to do it with enough >>> hacking.... >> >> Well, since it is serial, working with the serial console code is >> probably closest. > > Except that he probably would like to have stdout and stderr (and > console?) still go to the VGA board. > > Why would anyone want that, is a good question. A NEW PC KB is $15. Maybe he can touch-type. That's a concept that the designers of the PC keyboards don't seem to have considered. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 18:36:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15628 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:36:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA15622 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:36:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 5406 invoked from network); 24 Mar 1998 02:41:22 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 24 Mar 1998 02:41:22 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-031798 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980324130235.21267@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:41:22 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards Cc: FreeBSD Chat , Tom Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24-Mar-98 Greg Lehey wrote: > (following up to -chat) > > On Mon, 23 March 1998 at 18:31:37 -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: >> On 24-Mar-98 Tom wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Warner Losh wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Looking at syscons.c, pcvt/* and sio.c makes me think that this won't >>>> be easy or simple to do, but that it is possible to do it with enough >>>> hacking.... >>> >>> Well, since it is serial, working with the serial console code is >>> probably closest. >> >> Except that he probably would like to have stdout and stderr (and >> console?) still go to the VGA board. >> >> Why would anyone want that, is a good question. A NEW PC KB is $15. > > Maybe he can touch-type. That's a concept that the designers of the > PC keyboards don't seem to have considered. :-) N-Key Rollover they used to call it. My mother-in-law can outtype M$word to the point of crashing (150 WPM). I still use three fingers and look at the keyboard. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 18:39:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16066 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:39:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16058 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:39:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20034; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:09:18 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA17925; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:09:17 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980324130917.49302@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:09:17 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Cc: FreeBSD Chat , Tom Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards References: <19980324130235.21267@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Simon Shapiro on Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 06:41:22PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 23 March 1998 at 18:41:22 -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > On 24-Mar-98 Greg Lehey wrote: >> (following up to -chat) >> >> On Mon, 23 March 1998 at 18:31:37 -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: >>> On 24-Mar-98 Tom wrote: >>>> >>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Warner Losh wrote: >>> Except that he probably would like to have stdout and stderr (and >>> console?) still go to the VGA board. >>> >>> Why would anyone want that, is a good question. A NEW PC KB is $15. >> >> Maybe he can touch-type. That's a concept that the designers of the >> PC keyboards don't seem to have considered. > > :-) N-Key Rollover they used to call it. My mother-in-law can outtype > M$word to the point of crashing (150 WPM). You need to type fast to do that? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 18:44:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16906 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:44:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16831 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:43:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.8.7/8.8.5) id FAA02516; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 05:43:27 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <19980324054326.29283@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 05:43:26 +0300 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: time to up your pgp keys to 4096 bits? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You, Jonathan M. Bresler, were spotted writing this on Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 10:01:42AM -0800: > > > > Just to clear up here: This is about breaking RSA, not 'generation > > keys'. > > > > And if I have understood correctly, quantum computing make factoring a > > trivial excersise due to 'infinite parallelism'. 4096 bits is > > unlikely to help; _any_ key length is unlikely to help. More or less; quantum computing makes factoring essentially polynomial, so that whatever key length you use, generating the key and cracking it will take about the same time. > achieve....there is no theortical limit to the degree of > parallelism, just the practical limit in constructing > the apparatus. > > the article, for what it is worth, seems to indicate > that each register consists of ~50 ions. each would > require its own "laser-drivers". each regiester could > do 10e5 ops/us or 10e11 ops/sec. so give them 10e12 or > 2e40 ops/sec. No, this (building very small very fast registers) is not what quantum computing is about (the news got it wrong as usual). Quantum computing promises to evaluate exponentially many computation routes in polynomial time, this being much more significant gain than any however impressive gains in speed and size of one operation, such agins being linear. Very roughly, it works by exploiting nondeterminism inherent in quantum mechanics. You use particles which can be in two well-defined states (e.g. polarized photons). According to quantum mechanics, one such particle will be described by a superposition of these two states with some complex factors: alpha |0> + beta |1> Where alpha, beta are complex and |0>, |1> are two basic states which we identify with this particular quantum bit being 0 or 1. When we "look" at the bit, the wave function collapses and with probability |alpha^2| we see |0> with probability |beta^2| we see |1> This is nondeterminism. If you have k such particles altogether, the system in general will be in a superposition of all possible outcomes of looking at the system, the number of which is 2^k (however most of the factors will be 0 in simple cases). In a sense, we exploit the fact that the system "remembers" such a very complex superposition (it may involve up to 2^k terms of the sort alpha_i |outcome>, where outcome is a k-bit string) simply by the virtue of being in it. Suppose we have an operation that, given a quantum bit which is certainly zero (were we to look at it, we would always see |0>, i.e. alpha=1, beta=0 above), it turns the bit into the state 1/sqrt(2) |0> + 1/sqrt(2) |1> This is the ultimate uncertainty bit: when we look at it, we see |0> with probability 1/2. Then, if we start from a row of k quantum bits all being certainly zero, and apply this operation to each of them in turn, we get a system in which _every_ outcome is possible exactly with probability 1/2^k if we look at the string: 1/sqrt(2^k) |outcome> for every possible of 2^k outcomes. E.g. for 2 bit string: 1/2 |00> + 1/2 |01> + 1/2 |10> + 1/2 |11> Here comes the central trick. If we apply some operation on this system now (_without_ "looking" at it, e.g. without determining the outcome) the operation applies at the same time to all terms in the superposition and the result is the superposition of results for each outcome. In other words, if we compute f(a) where f is a function on a k-bit string (for example, computing its parity, or whatever), the result will be a system with a superposition of f(x) for each possible outcome x, weighted with probability of x in the original system (which was 1/sqrt(2^k) for all x's). What we just did is computed f for exponentially many values in one atomic step! We can't really find out all of them, however; if we look at the system now we'll find just one of them, with its corresponding probability in the superposition. E.g. when f is parity, the outcome will be a system with equal probability of 0 and 1, since all outcomes had the same probability in the original system and there're exactly half the k-bit strings with parity 1. We can apply essentially any f we can compute on a usual computer, by breaking it down to atomic gates such as XOR and translating those to language of quantum operators. For more complex f's related to the number N < 2^k which we want to factor (factoring, here we come), the distribution of values in the system after applying is not even as in case of parity, but greatly favors some values. If we look at the system now, with large probability we'll find it in a state which will help us find a factor of N. It won't work every time, but we can repeat the whole thing independetly several times to make the probability of finding a factor of N quickly extremely high so that it'll always work in practice. So we found the way after all to exploit that simultaneous computation of 2^k values of f inherent in applying f to our original distribution. We do it by picking f so that the values we favor and want to discover will turn into the same results by applying f; in that case their probability will grow very large and become such that we're likely to encounter them by looking at the system after applying f. Oh my, I must be very bored ;) Hopefully it was at least interesting to someone. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 18:46:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17204 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:46:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA17179 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:46:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 5569 invoked from network); 24 Mar 1998 02:51:24 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 24 Mar 1998 02:51:24 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-031798 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980324130917.49302@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:51:24 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards Cc: FreeBSD Chat , Tom Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24-Mar-98 Greg Lehey wrote: > On Mon, 23 March 1998 at 18:41:22 -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: >> >> On 24-Mar-98 Greg Lehey wrote: >>> (following up to -chat) >>> >>> On Mon, 23 March 1998 at 18:31:37 -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: >>>> On 24-Mar-98 Tom wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Warner Losh wrote: >>>> Except that he probably would like to have stdout and stderr (and >>>> console?) still go to the VGA board. >>>> >>>> Why would anyone want that, is a good question. A NEW PC KB is $15. >>> >>> Maybe he can touch-type. That's a concept that the designers of the >>> PC keyboards don't seem to have considered. >> >> :-) N-Key Rollover they used to call it. My mother-in-law can outtype >> M$word to the point of crashing (150 WPM). > > You need to type fast to do that? No, but if you do that it will (also) crash. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 19:44:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26520 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:44:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA26496 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:44:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yHKGX-0004bv-00; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:20:41 -0800 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:20:39 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Greg Lehey cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards In-Reply-To: <19980324130235.21267@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > Maybe he can touch-type. That's a concept that the designers of the > PC keyboards don't seem to have considered. Huh? What's stopping you from touch typing? > Greg Tom Systems Support Uniserve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 19:55:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28780 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:55:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28750 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:54:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20090; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:24:15 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA18205; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:24:14 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980324142414.00989@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:24:14 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Tom Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards References: <19980324130235.21267@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Tom on Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 07:20:39PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 23 March 1998 at 19:20:39 -0800, Tom wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Maybe he can touch-type. That's a concept that the designers of the >> PC keyboards don't seem to have considered. > > Huh? What's stopping you from touch typing? The control, alt, function and cursor keys are in the wrong place. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 19:58:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29684 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:58:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA29530 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:57:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 6776 invoked from network); 24 Mar 1998 04:02:27 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 24 Mar 1998 04:02:27 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-031798 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980324142414.00989@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:02:26 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards Cc: FreeBSD Chat , Tom Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24-Mar-98 Greg Lehey wrote: > On Mon, 23 March 1998 at 19:20:39 -0800, Tom wrote: >> >> On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >>> Maybe he can touch-type. That's a concept that the designers of the >>> PC keyboards don't seem to have considered. >> >> Huh? What's stopping you from touch typing? > > The control, alt, function and cursor keys are in the wrong place. On Windoze, the keyboard execution path is too slow for fast typists. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 19:58:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29768 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:58:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA29716 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:58:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yHKTu-0004dH-00; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:34:30 -0800 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:34:30 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Greg Lehey cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards In-Reply-To: <19980324142414.00989@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Mon, 23 March 1998 at 19:20:39 -0800, Tom wrote: > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > >> Maybe he can touch-type. That's a concept that the designers of the > >> PC keyboards don't seem to have considered. > > > > Huh? What's stopping you from touch typing? > > The control, alt, function and cursor keys are in the wrong place. Doesn't bother me as typewriters don't have control, alt, function and cursor keys anyhow. And yes, the typerwriter I learned on, did not have a on/off switch either. Now, that was typing! > Greg Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 20:15:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04051 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:15:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04037 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:14:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (jack@localhost) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA15131; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:14:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:14:34 -0500 (EST) From: jack To: Tom cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Tom wrote: > Doesn't bother me as typewriters don't have control, alt, function and > cursor keys anyhow. And yes, the typerwriter I learned on, did not have a > on/off switch either. Now, that was typing! Careful, you're dating yourself. :) Next you'll be telling us that you were listening to 45 rpm records at the time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc. Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 20:45:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09172 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:45:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ppp6522.on.bellglobal.com (ppp6484.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09110 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:45:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by ppp6522.on.bellglobal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA00312; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:43:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: ppp6522.on.bellglobal.com: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:43:10 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Greg Lehey cc: Tom , shimon@simon-shapiro.org, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards In-Reply-To: <19980324142414.00989@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > The control, alt, function and cursor keys are in the wrong place. Which, of course, totally depends on your person. I have no problem using my left thumb to hit the control and alt keys. The enter key is a pain, but I remapped that to the right control key which I hit by tilting my hand. The cursor keys deserve to die, though. Right shift isn't nice, either. Save the cursor keys, though, it's really not that bad... I think it rather depends on the particular person, how they sit, the room temperature, etc. -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 20:56:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11169 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:56:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (tulip29.verinet.com [199.45.181.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11163 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:56:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04125; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:56:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:56:36 -0700 (MST) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199803240456.VAA04125@const.> To: grog@lemis.com, shimon@simon-shapiro.org Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, tom@sdf.com In-Reply-To: <19980324130917.49302@freebie.lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > :-) N-Key Rollover they used to call it. My mother-in-law can outtype > > M$word to the point of crashing (150 WPM). > > You need to type fast to do that? Scrolling fast is usually sufficient. However, competent typing can serve to narrow the 'GPF window.' :) Al To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 21:05:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13395 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:05:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (tulip29.verinet.com [199.45.181.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13386 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:05:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04163; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:06:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:06:19 -0700 (MST) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199803240506.WAA04163@const.> To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, mellon@pobox.com Subject: Re: time to up your pgp keys to 4096 bits? In-Reply-To: <19980324054326.29283@techunix.technion.ac.il> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Uh, Snip!] > > So we found the way after all to exploit that simultaneous > computation of 2^k values of f inherent in applying f to > our original distribution. We do it by picking f so that > the values we favor and want to discover will turn into the > same results by applying f; in that case their probability > will grow very large and become such that we're likely to > encounter them by looking at the system after applying f. > > Oh my, I must be very bored ;) Hopefully it was at least > interesting to someone. Any sufficiently complex technology is indistinguishable from magic. I never really believed that before today. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 23 22:23:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA27173 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:23:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (andrew@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA27102 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:23:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@python.shoal.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA27810 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:22:54 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:22:54 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Serial Keyboards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > The control, alt, function and cursor keys are in the wrong place. > > Which, of course, totally depends on your person. I have no > problem using my left thumb to hit the control and alt keys. The > enter key is a pain, but I remapped that to the right control key > which I hit by tilting my hand. The cursor keys deserve to die, > though. Right shift isn't nice, either. > I usually manage to hit the caps-lock key, the shift key and the tab key (and multiples thereof) with my left little finger, unfortunately not when I want to though. What's wrong with learning to type while listening to 45's :-) I learned from an old book I found at the tip. One of those ones filled with repetitive exercises. After a while when doing the exercises my little fingers would start to buckle from trying to push down the typewriter keys. Andrew Perry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 24 12:02:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22596 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 12:02:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co ([168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22568 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 12:02:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem11.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.41]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA20123 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:03:08 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <351810EF.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:00:47 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The popularity meter [Fwd: Re: Suggested OS] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well..I asked for it ;-)...I don't really trust the method they used to measure this kind of stuff (in fact there is no way Linusux is as popular as Windows NT)...but we seem pretty near to what OS2 has made of years of spending bucks. cheers, Pedro. --------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from www.asme.org ([152.175.1.45]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA28634 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:40:06 +0500 Received: from barley.electriclichen.com by www.asme.org via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/951211.SGI.AUTO) for id LAA24397; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:25:23 -0500 Received: (from dmarti@localhost) by barley.electriclichen.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA10465; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:34:11 -0800 Message-ID: <19980324083411.32963@electriclichen.com> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:34:11 -0800 From: Don Marti To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Subject: Re: Suggested OS References: <35156956.167EB0E7@asme.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <35156956.167EB0E7@asme.org>; from Pedro F. Giffuni on Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 02:41:10PM -0500 Pedro, > I would like to suggest a new platform for your test: > FreeBSD You asked for it, you got it. Please let all your FreeBSD buddies know about the meter: http://electriclichen.com/linux/srom.html -- Don Marti | Electric Lichen L.L.C. | dmarti@electriclichen.com | San Francisco, California | 415-362-1412 --------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 24 15:51:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22398 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:51:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22281 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:51:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20925 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:51:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Something topical which just arrived in my mailbox. :) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:51:56 -0800 Message-ID: <20875.890783516@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A Guide to Software Revisions Once you start playing with software you quickly become aware that each software package has a revision code attached to it. It is obvious that this revision code gives the sequence of changes to the product, but in reality there's substantially more information available through the rev code than that. This e-mail provides a guide for interpreting the meaning of the revision codes and what they actually signify. 1.0: Also known as "one point uh-oh", or "barely out of beta". We had to release because the lab guys had reached a point of exhaustion and the marketing guys were in a cold sweat of terror. We're praying that you'll find it more functional than, say, a computer virus and that its operation has some resemblance to that specified in the marketing copy. 1.1: We fixed all the killer bugs ... 1.2: Uh, we introduced a few new bugs fixing the killer bugs and so we had to fix them, too. 2.0: We did the product we really wanted to do to begin with. Mind you, it's really not what the customer needs yet, but we're working on it. 2.1: Well, not surprisingly, we broke some things in making major changes so we had to fix them. But we did a really good job of testing this time, so we don't think we introduced any new bugs while we were fixing these bugs. 2.2: Uh, sorry, one slipped through. One lousy typo error and you won't believe how much trouble it caused! 2.3: Some jerk found a deep-seated bug that's been there since 1.0 and wouldn't stop nagging until we fixed it!! 3.0: Hey, we finally think we've got it right! Most of the customers are really happy with this. 3.1: Of course, we did break a few little things. 4.0: More features. It's doubled in size now, by the way, and you'll need to get more memory and a faster processor ... 4.1: Just one or two bugs this time ... Honest! 5.0: We really need to go on to a new product, but we have an installed base out there to protect. We're cutting the staffing after this. 6.0: We had to fix a few things we broke in 5.0. Not very many, but it's been so long since we looked at this thing we might as well call it a major upgrade. Oh, yeah, we added a few flashy cosmetic features so we could justify the major upgrade number. 6.1: Since I'm leaving the company and I'm the last guy left in the lab who works on the product, I wanted to make sure that all the changes I've made are incorporated before I go. I added some cute demos, too, since I was getting pretty bored back here in my dark little corner (I kept complaining about the lighting but they wouldn't do anything). They're talking about obsolescence planning but they'll try to keep selling it for as long as there's a buck or two to be made. I'm leaving the bits in as good a shape as I can in case somebody has to tweak them, but it'll be sheer luck if no one loses them. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 24 18:03:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11628 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:03:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11574 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:02:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id SAA18839 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:02:43 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:02:43 -0800 (PST) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Why did I knew this already? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.nfr.net/nfr/NFR_FAQ.html#linux (it might be a good link to have on www.freebsd.org -- just kidding) -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 24 20:43:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03700 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:43:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03626 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:42:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA27413 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:42:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803250442.UAA27413@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: http://www.postgresql.org/fund-raising.shtml Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:42:53 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Have you donated to the postgres project? If not then please do so !! Me, I just mailed them a small $25 donation . Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 25 01:58:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11310 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:58:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.dtir.qld.gov.au (firewall-user@ns.dtir.qld.gov.au [203.108.138.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11251; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:57:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au) Received: by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au; id TAA24784; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:56:43 +1000 (EST) Received: from ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au(167.123.8.3) by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma024779; Wed, 25 Mar 98 19:56:14 +1000 Received: from troll.dtir.qld.gov.au (troll.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.8.1]) by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08866; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:55:54 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (syssgm@localhost) by troll.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA13470; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:55:58 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199803250955.TAA13470@troll.dtir.qld.gov.au> X-Authentication-Warning: troll.dtir.qld.gov.au: syssgm@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: y2k Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:55:58 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: >Swerda wrote: >> i dont believe 2000 is a leap year I just close my eyes and wish! http://www.ast.cam.ac.uk/RGO/leaflets/leapyear/leapyear.html is brief, but informative, including a bit of the history of calendars. >> a leap year is divisible EVENLY BY 4 >> except NOT one divisible by 400 > > 2000 is a leap year. > > if (year % 400 == 0 || > (year % 100 != 0 && year % 4 == 0)) > printf("leap year\n"); But, of course, for that little bit of efficiency, you should code it: if (year % 4 == 0 && (year % 100 != 0 || year % 400 == 0)) printf("leap year\n"); so that for 3 out of 4 years only one division and comparison is done. Stephen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 25 13:00:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02299 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:00:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02249 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:00:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id PAA18259 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:56:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:00:22 -0500 (EST) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Netscape src release parteeeeeee!! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.mozilla.org/party/ Anyone in SF going? Chris -- "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 25 13:54:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11395 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:54:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11346 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:54:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05300; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:53:59 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19980325215359.01174@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:53:59 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Which is best, Linux or the *BSDs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Folks, You might be interested at taking a look at for a refreshing change on the *Linux/*BSD flamewar. 'Jordan "Perky" Hubbard' :-) N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 25 14:35:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22782 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:35:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22734 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:35:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id OAA08455; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:34:58 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:34:58 -0800 (PST) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Open Systems Networking cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape src release parteeeeeee!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I know I am. Well, most likely I am. :) -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > >http://www.mozilla.org/party/ > >Anyone in SF going? > >Chris > >-- >"I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." > >===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. > FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 >-----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 > FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net > http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security >===================================| http://open-systems.net > >-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- >Version: 2.6.2 > >mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te >gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC >foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z >d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb >NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv >CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 >b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= >=BBjp >-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 25 19:27:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04755 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:27:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04741 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:27:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29751; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:27:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803260327.TAA29751@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Open Systems Networking cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape src release parteeeeeee!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:00:22 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:27:04 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I will probably go since it is about 2 blocks away from me 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 26 10:07:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26072 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:07:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from SNYBUFAA.BUFFALOSTATE.EDU (SYSTEM@snybufaa.buffalostate.edu [136.183.34.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25984 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:06:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from HUMMDN36@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU) Received: from BUFFALOSTATE.EDU by BUFFALOSTATE.EDU (PMDF V5.1-5 #18385) id <01IV4GC7NNKK9JD8J9@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU> for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:13:05 EST Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:13:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Hummel Subject: freebsd/linux in an office environment To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <01IV4GC7NNKM9JD8J9@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU> X-VMS-To: in%"chat@freebsd.org" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm writing a paper for a class whose topic is going to revolve around using FreeBSD/Linux workstations instead of NT. There is no doubt that FreeBSD/Linux excel as servers, but there seems to be some doubt about using them as workstations due to lack of expertise of users and availabilty of user software including wordprocessors, spreadsheets, accounting packages and whatever else a 'typical' business (including a University) may have to use. This is more than a paper topic, I think it's an important issue. The free unices are getting great publicity as servers. Many people seem to be fed up with MS, and right now seems to be the time to promote the unices as a viable workstation option. My problem is that I don't have the resources to try out commercial software that would fit the bill. If anyone has experience with a UNIX type office setup (for instance, a lan with only X terminals or PC's running X), could you please share a tidbit or two of wisdom concerning: 1) Just how good are the commerical Office Suites for UNIX compared to their Windows counterparts? How does the price compare? 2) How much software is available for UNIX compared to Windows? What isn't available? 3) Is such a setup viable for a large business or university? By viable I guess I mean: Is it possible to set up a UNIX network for 'typical users' that has all the functionality of an NT network? For instance, it seems to me that at my school the typical user uses Netscape, MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Access. (The one thing that is used here that could not be handled in a UNIX-only network is Visual Basic.) Looking at the situation here, I would estimate the a UNIX solution would maintain most of our current functionality with the exception of Visual Basic and possibly Powerpoint (which is not used very much). I really don't know what type of software is used in most office environments. 4) Where can I find more information? Thank you for your time, Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 26 14:21:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02215 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:21:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (root@andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02201 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:20:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA27867; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:18:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:18:24 -0800 (PST) From: Annelise Anderson To: Dave Hummel cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd/linux in an office environment In-Reply-To: <01IV4GC7NNKM9JD8J9@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Dave Hummel wrote: > I'm writing a paper for a class whose topic is going to revolve around > using FreeBSD/Linux workstations instead of NT. There is no doubt that > FreeBSD/Linux excel as servers, but there seems to be some doubt about > using them as workstations due to lack of expertise of users and availabilty > of user software including wordprocessors, spreadsheets, accounting packages > and whatever else a 'typical' business (including a University) may have to > use. > > This is more than a paper topic, I think it's an important issue. The free > unices are getting great publicity as servers. Many people seem to > be fed up with MS, and right now seems to be the time to promote the unices as > a viable workstation option. > > My problem is that I don't have the resources to try out commercial software > that would fit the bill. If anyone has experience with a UNIX type > office setup (for instance, a lan with only X terminals or PC's running X), > could you please share a tidbit or two of wisdom concerning: You might try their web pages and e-mail contact and ask for a demo/trial. If they don't answer or don't know what you're talking about, that's part of it. > > 1) Just how good are the commerical Office Suites for UNIX compared to > their Windows counterparts? How does the price compare? The prices by comparison are horrendous, provided you can get a price quote at all. The price of this kind of software far exceeds what can be saved by getting the basic operating system free. It seems I'd have to pay for a word processor alone what I'd otherwise pay for an entire suite. Also, the unix products are less likely (assuming they exist at all) to offer academic discounts. I was ready to buy Corel's WordPerfect, which supposedly runs on SCO unix and therefore on the SCO emulation in FreeBSD. I asked a few questions (Are the 6.0 and 5.2 versions different, or one product? If different, how? Are these X-Windows programs or not?) and it was sort of Alice-in- Wonderland; I got a variety of price quotes from about $149 to $500, none of which seemed to be firmly attached to anything. I never got the same price quote twice. I gave up. You could try www.corel.com. > > 2) How much software is available for UNIX compared to Windows? What isn't > available? There are three major office suites: Microsoft, Corel (WordPerfect etc.), and IBM (Lotus--Lotus Notes etc.). Insofar as the information can be gathered, my experience is that the Wintel versions of these suites are the leaders, and what's available for any unix platform is always secondary. The entire suite may not be available. The StarOffice work-alike for the MS Office suite may be an important option. The version I originally used was a little clunky and couldn't always read documents created in MS Word (for example) even though I dumbed down the version level. I think it's been improved, though. > 3) Is such a setup viable for a large business or university? By viable I guess > I mean: Is it possible to set up a UNIX network for 'typical users' that > has all the functionality of an NT network? For instance, it seems to me > that at my school the typical user uses Netscape, MS Word, Excel, > Powerpoint, Access. More generally, they're using a word processor, a spreadsheet, a data base (Access), and a program that creates presentations (Powerpoint), as well as a browser (the browser is not a problem). The ones you list are the MS office suite. > (The one thing that is used here that could not > be handled in a UNIX-only network is Visual Basic.) Looking at the > situation here, I would estimate the a UNIX solution would maintain > most of our current functionality with the exception of Visual Basic and > possibly Powerpoint (which is not used very much). I really don't know > what type of software is used in most office environments. The software that's included in office suites is typical--the same types of programs people are using at your school. The other software typically used in an office environment would be calendar/scheduling software and, now, electronic mail. I think IBM's effort to compete in this market is based on Lotus Notes and its capabilities (with which I am largely un- familiar) for this kind of intra-office communications, including, e.g., editing documents and keeping track of the changes made or recommended by different readers. And Lotus 1-2-3 (the spreadsheet) is good. The attraction of the Microsoft suite is that it's becoming the standard, and the word processor and spread sheet are just about the best around. Another application in use in many organizations is some kind of desk-top publishing software. Most organizations (businesses, university departments, non-profits of all kinds) have some need to produce brochures or circulars or whatever. Thus, the pr department where I work uses PageMaker. PageMaker, Quark Express, Ventura Publisher, and many variants, plus, possibly, photoediting stuff (Adobe Photoshop) are Wintel or possibly Mac products/platform, whether you buy the most elaborate versions or something simpler. Small businesses and organizations also need accounting and tax preparation software. Here again, it's Wintel stuff or possibly Mac. So is personal finance (Quicken, for example). I've found this rather discouraging...and ultimately a sort of retelling of the loss of the desktop to the MSWindows operating system. > > 4) Where can I find more information? > > Thank you for your time, > Dave Annelise To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 26 15:27:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10415 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:27:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from subcellar.mwci.net (subcellar.mwci.net [205.254.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10405 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:27:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jwalt@mwci.net) Received: from firewall.mwci.net (firewall.mwci.net [205.254.160.134]) by subcellar.mwci.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA24593 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:26:35 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:27:48 -0600 (CST) From: Jesse Walters To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BAndwidth Utilization Log Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am looking for a program to keep accurate records of bandwidth used by a customer on a t1 so we can bill them accordingly. MRTG is ok, but it only keeps averages not the actual total. Any suggestions? Thank You ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jesse Walters http://users.mwci.net/~jwalt Tech Support/Customer Service Rep. jwalt@mwci.net Midwest Communications Inc. 241 Main St. Dubuque, Ia 52002 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Save the whales...collect the whole set. Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math. Always remember you are unique, just like everybody else. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 26 16:09:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17574 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:09:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17553; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:09:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14428; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:58:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <351AEB8A.AA206918@dal.net> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:58:02 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jesse Walters CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BAndwidth Utilization Log References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jesse Walters wrote: > > I am looking for a program to keep accurate records of bandwidth > used by a customer on a t1 so we can bill them accordingly. MRTG is ok, > but it only keeps averages not the actual total. Any suggestions? If there's a freebsd box involved ipfw could easily be used to keep an accounting record. I'm also cc'ing this to the ISP list since you're more likely to get an informed response from them. Good luck, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 26 18:10:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05060 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 18:10:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04967; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 18:10:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@panda.hilink.com.au) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA07776; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:09:50 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:09:50 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Studded cc: Jesse Walters , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BAndwidth Utilization Log In-Reply-To: <351AEB8A.AA206918@dal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Jesse Walters wrote: > > > > I am looking for a program to keep accurate records of bandwidth > > used by a customer on a t1 so we can bill them accordingly. MRTG is ok, > > but it only keeps averages not the actual total. Any suggestions? You can do it by passing the data through a freebsd box and using ipfw, or by eavesdropping using bpf. ipfw is nice in that it is easy to determine the direction of the traffic. It really depends on your setup. Danny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 01:48:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26875 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 01:48:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26736 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 01:48:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id KAA16454; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:47:59 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:47:58 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The popularity meter [Fwd: Re: Suggested OS] References: <351810EF.41C67EA6@asme.org> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 27 Mar 1998 10:47:57 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Pedro F. Giffuni"'s message of "Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:00:47 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You asked for it, you got it. Please let all your FreeBSD buddies > know about the meter: http://electriclichen.com/linux/srom.html Now we all know what to write in out web pages, don't we? ;) -- fprintf(stderr, "I have a closed mind. It helps keeping the rain out.\n"); To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 06:20:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03847 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA03830 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:20:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199803271421.JAA16489@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:20:15 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: OS Comparisons. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ C|Net has done a review of various OS's for the PC. FreeBSD is there, and got a very good review. Have a look. -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 06:29:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05139 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:29:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05131 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:28:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26898; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:28:29 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA14723; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:28:27 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980327152826.22943@follo.net> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:28:26 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Jamie Bowden , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. References: <199803271421.JAA16489@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199803271421.JAA16489@gatekeeper.itribe.net>; from Jamie Bowden on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ > > C|Net has done a review of various OS's for the PC. FreeBSD is there, and > got a very good review. Have a look. They also have a test to suggest which OS you should run. I got FreeBSD :-) (They din't ask a single question relating to computers, either!) Eivind. "Run FreeBSD - the right OS for those of you who cook gourmet meals from whatever is in the cupboard" :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 06:47:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07830 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:47:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co ([168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07509 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:46:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem00.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.30]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA23389; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:46:20 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <351BBB19.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:43:37 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The popularity meter [Fwd: Re: Suggested OS] References: <351810EF.41C67EA6@asme.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hmm..I know I proposed FreeBSD in that list but is it really worth the effort adding those exact terms in our pages? I wouldn't trust someone that classifies operating systems in Beavis & ButtHead terms! OTOH many people in the FreeBSD lists tend to say Linux is great simply because it's free, while we do a better job in most fronts. This attitude of not disserning publically which is the technically superior solution only tends to create more fanatism around Linux and more stupid meters that don't prove anything. All this is, of course, IMHO :-). Pedro. Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > > You asked for it, you got it. Please let all your FreeBSD buddies > > know about the meter: http://electriclichen.com/linux/srom.html > > Now we all know what to write in out web pages, don't we? ;) > > > > > > > > > > > -- > fprintf(stderr, "I have a closed mind. It helps keeping the rain out.\n"); To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 06:55:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA08703 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:55:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from symbionics.co.uk (symsun3.symbionics.co.uk [194.32.100.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA08684 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:54:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from sympc287.symbionics.co.uk by symbionics.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25591; Fri, 27 Mar 98 14:53:49 GMT Message-Id: <9803271453.AA25591@symbionics.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: Eivind Eklund Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:49:31 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. Reply-To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980327152826.22943@follo.net> References: <199803271421.JAA16489@gatekeeper.itribe.net>; from Jamie Bowden on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > > > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ > > > > C|Net has done a review of various OS's for the PC. FreeBSD is there, and > > got a very good review. Have a look. > > They also have a test to suggest which OS you should run. I got > FreeBSD :-) (They din't ask a single question relating to computers, > either!) Same here, what are your model railway plans then? > > Eivind. > > "Run FreeBSD - the right OS for those of you who cook gourmet meals > from whatever is in the cupboard" :-) > Duncan FreeBSD - "For those who ran out of PlayDoh" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 07:03:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09998 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:03:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09989 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:03:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27926; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:03:24 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA14873; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:03:20 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980327160320.31220@follo.net> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:03:20 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. References: <199803271421.JAA16489@gatekeeper.itribe.net>; <19980327152826.22943@follo.net> <9803271453.AA25591@symbionics.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <9803271453.AA25591@symbionics.co.uk>; from Duncan Barclay on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 02:49:31PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 02:49:31PM +0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > > > > > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ > > > > > > C|Net has done a review of various OS's for the PC. FreeBSD is there, and > > > got a very good review. Have a look. > > > > They also have a test to suggest which OS you should run. I got > > FreeBSD :-) (They din't ask a single question relating to computers, > > either!) > > Same here, what are your model railway plans then? Sorry, I'm the partying type :-) (For the first two weeks, at least :-) I think it is more likely that I'd spend the rest of the time making the ultimate OS than the ultimate railroad, too *grin*. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 10:36:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08403 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:36:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA08381 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:36:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 5203 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Mar 1998 18:38:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19980327193819.22176@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:38:19 +0100 From: Andreas Braukmann To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. References: <199803271421.JAA16489@gatekeeper.itribe.net> <19980327152826.22943@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19980327152826.22943@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 03:28:26PM +0100 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 03:28:26PM +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: > They also have a test to suggest which OS you should run. I got > FreeBSD :-) (They din't ask a single question relating to computers, > either!) ...hey, that's really cool. I was rated as a FreeBSD user, too. -ab -- /// ------------------------------------------------------------------- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 10:41:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09615 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:41:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09607 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:41:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 5214 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Mar 1998 18:43:35 -0000 Message-ID: <19980327194335.27372@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:43:35 +0100 From: Andreas Braukmann To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. References: <199803271421.JAA16489@gatekeeper.itribe.net> <19980327152826.22943@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19980327152826.22943@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 03:28:26PM +0100 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi again, ... On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 03:28:26PM +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ > "Run FreeBSD - the right OS for those of you who cook gourmet meals > from whatever is in the cupboard" :-) hhmm. I found the characterization for linux-users quite interesting: "He needed the stability and power of Unix but didn't know enough about Unix to configure FreeBSD. " -ab -- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 11:59:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29407 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:59:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bigbrother ([206.29.49.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA29394 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:59:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vshah@rstcorp.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by bigbrother (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA08962 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:48:47 -0500 Received: from fault.rstcorp.com(206.29.49.18) by bigbrother.rstcorp.com via smap (V2.0) id xma008960; Fri, 27 Mar 98 15:48:21 -0500 Received: (from vshah@localhost) by rstcorp.com (8.8.1/8.8.1) id OAA02674; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:58:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:58:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803271958.OAA02674@rstcorp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Viren R. Shah" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: wcarchive user limit X-Mailer: VM 6.40 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Viren R. Shah" X-Face: )~y+U*K:yzjz{q<5lzpI_SVef'U.])9g[C9`1N@]u3,MHY7f*l7C)[_NjM4y4K8$uIUh|\u (K&&HS6,M!61&GMTk'mqmB/Qg]]X}"?TzsFl]"2v!bl8']dma.:^IY^a[lbOI>U:b<~FyK3q-p{HmZ mn~g.`~BE!5{2D:}Yi+\_KkWe?XaHj9$ko1k8iKLYv5*_2c8"G=?Up[}hn+7RNM(bzBZ_wWk6!Pf&B ?3Tcm7M7B~W%K/I0aX3]*=jP?aM]H6HBPT`oLk+0n^_;N\2\%|Rhy;p}34Q.jEsM\qtnxcm;ag%Nq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Got this message when logging in: --- Logged in to ftp.freebsd.org. Welcome to wcarchive - home ftp site for Walnut Creek CDROM. There are currently 3001 users out of 3000 possible. --- Hmm..off-by-one error? or a race condition? Viren -- Viren R. Shah viren @ rstcorp . com "If the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body...then only left-handed people are in their right minds!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 12:22:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03444 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:22:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mph124b.rh.psu.edu (MPH124B.rh.psu.edu [128.118.126.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03429 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:22:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@pobox.com) From: gsutter@pobox.com Received: from localhost (gsutter@localhost) by mph124b.rh.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA26938 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:22:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gsutter@pobox.com) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:22:21 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: gsutter@mph124b.rh.psu.edu To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. In-Reply-To: <19980327194335.27372@paert.tse-online.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Andreas Braukmann wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: >> > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ > >hhmm. I found the characterization for linux-users quite interesting: > "He needed the stability and power of Unix but didn't > know enough about Unix to configure FreeBSD. " Especially since I found FreeBSD much easier to properly configure than my Linux system. 'Course, I was running Slackware Linux with a 1.1.56? kernel. :) I found myself in the Linux camp on the survey above, though. I changed my answers three times and still was characterized as a Linux user. I'm going to wipe my HDD now and install Red Hat. GReg -- Gregory S. Sutter "How do I read this file?" mailto:gsutter@pobox.com "You uudecode it." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ "I I I decode it?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 12:43:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06919 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:43:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06637 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:43:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07670; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:42:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803272042.MAA07670@implode.root.com> To: "Viren R. Shah" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wcarchive user limit In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:58:04 EST." <199803271958.OAA02674@rstcorp.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:42:50 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Got this message when logging in: > >--- >Logged in to ftp.freebsd.org. >Welcome to wcarchive - home ftp site for Walnut Creek CDROM. >There are currently 3001 users out of 3000 possible. >--- > >Hmm..off-by-one error? or a race condition? Race condition - a context switch occured at just the wrong time and this allowed an extra user in when it shouldn't have. I could add locking around the check/increment of the user count, but why bother? -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 12:55:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08886 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:55:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08880 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:55:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07807; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:54:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803272054.MAA07807@implode.root.com> To: gsutter@pobox.com cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:22:21 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:54:52 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Andreas Braukmann wrote: > >>> On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: >>> > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ >> >>hhmm. I found the characterization for linux-users quite interesting: >> "He needed the stability and power of Unix but didn't >> know enough about Unix to configure FreeBSD. " > >Especially since I found FreeBSD much easier to properly configure than >my Linux system. 'Course, I was running Slackware Linux with a 1.1.56? >kernel. :) > >I found myself in the Linux camp on the survey above, though. I changed >my answers three times and still was characterized as a Linux user. I'm >going to wipe my HDD now and install Red Hat. Funny, I didn't answer any of the questions and was put into the Linux camp. It's annoying yet interesting that it skips over OS/2 and FreeBSD when it decides you're a Linux candidate. I wonder if it always decides "linux" is best for you, no matter how you answer the questions? :-) -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 13:01:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10512 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:01:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca [139.142.2.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10469 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:00:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasoni-2@shaw.wave.ca) Received: from foo2 ([24.64.100.221]) by norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA12512 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:59:32 -0700 Message-ID: <001201bd59c3$9e34d800$0201a8c0@foo2> From: "jason. ish" To: Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:02:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3007.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3007.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >hhmm. I found the characterization for linux-users quite interesting: > "He needed the stability and power of Unix but didn't > know enough about Unix to configure FreeBSD. " Kinda funny, I just installed FreeBSD last night for the first time and found it went smoother and configured itself more the Debian Linux - I've never used RedHat so can't compare tho. jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 13:24:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15283 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:24:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15206 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:24:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26771; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:53:27 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA06644; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:53:26 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980328075325.10456@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:53:25 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Eivind Eklund , Jamie Bowden , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. References: <199803271421.JAA16489@gatekeeper.itribe.net> <19980327152826.22943@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <19980327152826.22943@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 03:28:26PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 March 1998 at 15:28:26 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: >> >> http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ >> >> C|Net has done a review of various OS's for the PC. FreeBSD is there, and >> got a very good review. Have a look. > > They also have a test to suggest which OS you should run. I got > FreeBSD :-) (They din't ask a single question relating to computers, > either!) Yup, so did I. I wonder how accurate it is with advocates of other operating systems. Or maybe it always suggests FreeBSD? :-) Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 13:25:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15747 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:25:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15716 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:25:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26778; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:55:11 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA06664; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:55:11 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980328075511.52357@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:55:11 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: dg@root.com, gsutter@pobox.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. References: <199803272054.MAA07807@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803272054.MAA07807@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 12:54:52PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 March 1998 at 12:54:52 -0800, David Greenman wrote: >> On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Andreas Braukmann wrote: >> >>>> On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: >>>>> http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ >>> >>> hhmm. I found the characterization for linux-users quite interesting: >>> "He needed the stability and power of Unix but didn't >>> know enough about Unix to configure FreeBSD. " >> >> Especially since I found FreeBSD much easier to properly configure than >> my Linux system. 'Course, I was running Slackware Linux with a 1.1.56? >> kernel. :) >> >> I found myself in the Linux camp on the survey above, though. I changed >> my answers three times and still was characterized as a Linux user. I'm >> going to wipe my HDD now and install Red Hat. > > Funny, I didn't answer any of the questions and was put into the Linux > camp. I'm sure there's an obvious conclusion there :-) > It's annoying yet interesting that it skips over OS/2 and FreeBSD > when it decides you're a Linux candidate. I wonder if it always > decides "linux" is best for you, no matter how you answer the > questions? :-) My question in reverse. Coming from you, though, these are grounds for concern. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 13:30:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17060 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:30:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ryouko.nas.nasa.gov (ryouko.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.34.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17026 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:30:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from greg@ryouko.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from ryouko.nas.nasa.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ryouko.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.7/NAS8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07227 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:30:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803272130.NAA07227@ryouko.nas.nasa.gov> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:53:25 +1030." <19980328075325.10456@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:30:03 -0800 From: "Gregory P. Smith" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Yup, so did I. I wonder how accurate it is with advocates of other > operating systems. Well, I'm a long time OS/2 and custom Linux user and have only recently installed FreeBSD to work on a class project (nice smooth and simple install like I'd expect from a BSDish OS, BTW :). It classified me as a FreeBSD user. But given that I consider Redhat the most win95ish of all Linux installations (yuck!) I don't mind. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 13:32:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17493 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:32:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17428 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:32:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id IAA08097; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:33:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199803272133.IAA08097@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. In-Reply-To: <19980328075325.10456@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Mar 28, 98 07:53:25 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:33:42 +1100 (EST) Cc: eivind@yes.no, jamie@itribe.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > On Fri, 27 March 1998 at 15:28:26 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > They also have a test to suggest which OS you should run. I got > > FreeBSD :-) (They din't ask a single question relating to computers, > > either!) > > Yup, so did I. I wonder how accurate it is with advocates of other > operating systems. > > Or maybe it always suggests FreeBSD? :-) I got FreeBSD too. 8-) Then I went back and changed the last answer to from "MTV" to "60 Minutes". Then it told me to use Red Hat Linux. Doh. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 13:41:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19701 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:41:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19683 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:41:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00935; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:40:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199803272140.QAA00935@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. In-Reply-To: <199803272133.IAA08097@cimlogic.com.au> from John Birrell at "Mar 28, 98 08:33:42 am" To: jb@cimlogic.com.au (John Birrell) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:40:31 -0500 (EST) Cc: grog@lemis.com, eivind@yes.no, jamie@itribe.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Fri, 27 March 1998 at 15:28:26 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > They also have a test to suggest which OS you should run. I got > > > FreeBSD :-) (They din't ask a single question relating to computers, > > > either!) > > > > Yup, so did I. I wonder how accurate it is with advocates of other > > operating systems. > > > > Or maybe it always suggests FreeBSD? :-) > > I got FreeBSD too. 8-) > > Then I went back and changed the last answer to from "MTV" to "60 Minutes". > Then it told me to use Red Hat Linux. Doh. > Up until about 5 or more years ago, I would definitely had said MTV, but since it isn't very creative anymore, 60 Minutes would be my best choice. I always liked 60 Minutes though. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 13:48:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21184 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:48:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21138 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:47:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id IAA08158; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:52:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199803272152.IAA08158@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. In-Reply-To: <199803272140.QAA00935@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Mar 27, 98 04:40:31 pm" To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:52:22 +1100 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, grog@lemis.com, eivind@yes.no, jamie@itribe.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John S. Dyson wrote: > Up until about 5 or more years ago, I would definitely had said MTV, but since > it isn't very creative anymore, 60 Minutes would be my best choice. I always > liked 60 Minutes though. We have a local 60 minutes that actually runs for 45. MTV was the only other name I recognised. It's available on cable here, but not many people (including me) have cable. So I lied and it told me to use FreeBSD. When I gave a more truthful answer, I got Linux. 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 13:58:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22013 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:58:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21945 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:58:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26824; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:27:22 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA07005; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:27:21 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980328082721.36492@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:27:21 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "John S. Dyson" , John Birrell Cc: eivind@yes.no, jamie@itribe.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Provinciality (was: OS Comparisons.) References: <199803272133.IAA08097@cimlogic.com.au> <199803272140.QAA00935@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803272140.QAA00935@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 04:40:31PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 March 1998 at 16:40:31 -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: >> Greg Lehey wrote: >>> On Fri, 27 March 1998 at 15:28:26 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: >>>> They also have a test to suggest which OS you should run. I got >>>> FreeBSD :-) (They din't ask a single question relating to computers, >>>> either!) >>> >>> Yup, so did I. I wonder how accurate it is with advocates of other >>> operating systems. >>> >>> Or maybe it always suggests FreeBSD? :-) >> >> I got FreeBSD too. 8-) >> >> Then I went back and changed the last answer to from "MTV" to "60 Minutes". >> Then it told me to use Red Hat Linux. Doh. >> > Up until about 5 or more years ago, I would definitely had said MTV, but since > it isn't very creative anymore, 60 Minutes would be my best choice. I always > liked 60 Minutes though. I didn't answer that question. Why do so many web sites assume you're located in the US? Another favourite problem is that screens which ask for your address insist on a US zip code and, in some cases, a US state abbreviation. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 14:10:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23881 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:10:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23760 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:09:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id JAA08208; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:14:05 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199803272214.JAA08208@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Provinciality (was: OS Comparisons.) In-Reply-To: <19980328082721.36492@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Mar 28, 98 08:27:21 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:14:05 +1100 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, jb@cimlogic.com.au, eivind@yes.no, jamie@itribe.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > I didn't answer that question. Why do so many web sites assume you're > located in the US? Another favourite problem is that screens which > ask for your address insist on a US zip code and, in some cases, a US > state abbreviation. I guess they go with what they know. Oz post codes and state abbreviations fit the US model: Yours: Echunga SA 5153, Australia ^^^^^^^ Mine: Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia ^^^^^^^^ But for Singapore, I guess you'd leave the fields blank if they let you. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 14:11:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24320 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:11:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24191 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:11:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01094; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:11:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199803272211.RAA01094@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Provinciality (was: OS Comparisons.) In-Reply-To: <19980328082721.36492@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Mar 28, 98 08:27:21 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:11:05 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, jb@cimlogic.com.au, eivind@yes.no, jamie@itribe.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Fri, 27 March 1998 at 16:40:31 -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > >> Greg Lehey wrote: > >>> On Fri, 27 March 1998 at 15:28:26 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > >>>> They also have a test to suggest which OS you should run. I got > >>>> FreeBSD :-) (They din't ask a single question relating to computers, > >>>> either!) > >>> > >>> Yup, so did I. I wonder how accurate it is with advocates of other > >>> operating systems. > >>> > >>> Or maybe it always suggests FreeBSD? :-) > >> > >> I got FreeBSD too. 8-) > >> > >> Then I went back and changed the last answer to from "MTV" to "60 Minutes". > >> Then it told me to use Red Hat Linux. Doh. > >> > > Up until about 5 or more years ago, I would definitely had said MTV, but since > > it isn't very creative anymore, 60 Minutes would be my best choice. I always > > liked 60 Minutes though. > > I didn't answer that question. Why do so many web sites assume you're > located in the US? Another favourite problem is that screens which > ask for your address insist on a US zip code and, in some cases, a US > state abbreviation. > There is still a problem here in the US, that we do tend to be US centric, and forget that the Net is worldwide. Missing either MTV or 60 Minutes, won't decrease the quality of your life very much :-). Recently, especially, not seeing MTV is definitely an advantage. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 14:19:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28451 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:19:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27697 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:18:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26849; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:47:04 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA17612; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:47:04 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980328084703.42441@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:47:03 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: John Birrell Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, eivind@yes.no, jamie@itribe.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Provinciality (was: OS Comparisons.) References: <19980328082721.36492@freebie.lemis.com> <199803272214.JAA08208@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803272214.JAA08208@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 09:14:05AM +1100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 March 1998 at 9:14:05 +1100, John Birrell wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> I didn't answer that question. Why do so many web sites assume you're >> located in the US? Another favourite problem is that screens which >> ask for your address insist on a US zip code and, in some cases, a US >> state abbreviation. > > I guess they go with what they know. Oz post codes and state abbreviations > fit the US model: > > Yours: Echunga SA 5153, Australia > ^^^^^^^ > Mine: Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia > ^^^^^^^^ That's the point, they don't. The US zip codes may be either 5 or 9 digits, and there should be a - after the first 5 digits (95014-4711, for example). State codes are exactly 2 caps (so SA is formally correct, but Vic is not), and most programs check the exact code, so SA fails as well. > But for Singapore, I guess you'd leave the fields blank if they let > you. Singapore has post codes, too. Amusingly, also 4 digits. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 16:42:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27408 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:42:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27357 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:41:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DougGuy@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02698; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:41:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DougGuy@dal.net) Message-ID: <351C4743.E372815C@dal.net> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:41:39 -0800 From: Doug Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The popularity meter [Fwd: Re: Suggested OS] References: <351810EF.41C67EA6@asme.org> <351BBB19.41C67EA6@asme.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > OTOH many people in the FreeBSD lists tend to say Linux is great simply > because it's free, while we do a better job in most fronts. This > attitude of not disserning publically which is the technically superior > solution only tends to create more fanatism around Linux and more stupid > meters that don't prove anything. I have posted several times a detailed account regarding how side by side tests on our network have proven conclusively that Freebsd is the best OS for tcp/ip intensive applications, beating out linux (easily), bsdi, solaris and an assortment of other exotic alternatives. The server I refer to in my .sig holds the record for all irc servers on all networks. Now ircd is only one subset of what you want to use unix for, however the fact that freebsd is technically superior for "real work" in a production environment is good enough for me. :) Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 17:56:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08147 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:56:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (algae30.verinet.com [199.45.181.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08136 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:56:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12556; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:58:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:58:07 -0700 (MST) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199803280158.SAA12556@const.> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, eivind@yes.no, grog@lemis.com, jamie@itribe.net Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. In-Reply-To: <19980328075325.10456@freebie.lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ > > > > They also have a test to suggest which OS you should run. I got > > FreeBSD :-) (They din't ask a single question relating to computers, > > either!) > > Yup, so did I. I wonder how accurate it is with advocates of other > operating systems. > > Or maybe it always suggests FreeBSD? :-) > David Greenman mentioned that he was rated for Linux. Maybe his motives should be suspect. :) Nice to see such a good review of FreeBSD. Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 18:26:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA13633 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:26:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co ([168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13579 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:26:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem09.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.39]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA23905; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:27:24 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <351C5F6F.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:24:47 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The popularity meter [Fwd: Re: Suggested OS] References: <351810EF.41C67EA6@asme.org> <351BBB19.41C67EA6@asme.org> <351C4743.E372815C@dal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have to admit that I wanted to keep FreeBSD as a secret for myself once and let the other guys dwell with their primitive solution, but I would REALLY like if FreeBSD were more popular because we would have more funding, and also we would have more native commercial applications to play with. I have ported many freeware applications, and it surprises me that: 1) Many software authors don't know about FreeBSD, some even think it's a version of Linux. 2) Linux applications are usually very badly written; even if they are commercial. Lately I built Freedom-lite and while it seems to work there are so many warnings I preferred not to port it. Pedro. Doug wrote: > > Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > > OTOH many people in the FreeBSD lists tend to say Linux is great simply > > because it's free, while we do a better job in most fronts. This > > attitude of not disserning publically which is the technically superior > > solution only tends to create more fanatism around Linux and more stupid > > meters that don't prove anything. > > I have posted several times a detailed account regarding how side by > side tests on our network have proven conclusively that Freebsd is the > best OS for tcp/ip intensive applications, beating out linux (easily), > bsdi, solaris and an assortment of other exotic alternatives. The server > I refer to in my .sig holds the record for all irc servers on all > networks. > > Now ircd is only one subset of what you want to use unix for, however > the fact that freebsd is technically superior for "real work" in a > production environment is good enough for me. :) > > Doug > > -- > *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** > *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest > *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. > *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 21:50:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05729 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:50:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05722 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:50:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-143.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.143]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA154660; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 05:50:20 GMT Message-ID: <351C8F9F.C11B004B@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:50:23 -0800 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk CC: Eivind Eklund , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. References: <199803271421.JAA16489@gatekeeper.itribe.net>; from Jamie Bowden on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500 <9803271453.AA25591@symbionics.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Duncan Barclay wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > > > > > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ > > > > > > C|Net has done a review of various OS's for the PC. FreeBSD is there, and > > > got a very good review. Have a look. > > > > They also have a test to suggest which OS you should run. I got > > FreeBSD :-) (They din't ask a single question relating to computers, > > either!) > > Same here, what are your model railway plans then? > 1892, of course, when Steam was in the same position computers are now... :))) Don FreeBSD rules... as a track planning tool. Does well for laying out 1/4" scale elevations, too. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 21:58:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06369 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:58:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06364 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:58:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-143.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.143]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA128156; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 05:58:20 GMT Message-ID: <351C917F.477E094A@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:58:23 -0800 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com CC: gsutter@pobox.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. References: <199803272054.MAA07807@implode.root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org No, I got FreeBSD for mine. Maybe we model railroaders are suckers for the real thing? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 27 23:39:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15562 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:39:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA15557 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:39:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA15303; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:39:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803280739.XAA15303@implode.root.com> To: allen campbell cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:58:07 MST." <199803280158.SAA12556@const.> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:39:12 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >David Greenman mentioned that he was rated for Linux. Maybe his >motives should be suspect. :) > >Nice to see such a good review of FreeBSD. Actually, I said that I didn't answer any of the questions and it defaulted to Linux (one can only speculate on what this says about their view of Linux users :-)). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 28 05:44:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17391 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 05:44:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA17386 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 05:43:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from panke.panke.de (anonymous216.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.216]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17602; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:38:49 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by panke.panke.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA05160; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:39:09 +0100 (MET) To: dg@root.com Cc: "Viren R. Shah" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wcarchive user limit References: <199803272042.MAA07670@implode.root.com> From: Wolfram Schneider Date: 28 Mar 1998 15:38:59 +0200 In-Reply-To: David Greenman's message of Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:42:50 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 20 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Greenman writes: > >Logged in to ftp.freebsd.org. > >Welcome to wcarchive - home ftp site for Walnut Creek CDROM. > >There are currently 3001 users out of 3000 possible. > >--- > > > >Hmm..off-by-one error? or a race condition? > > Race condition - a context switch occured at just the wrong time and this > allowed an extra user in when it shouldn't have. I could add locking around > the check/increment of the user count, but why bother? You could also lie and claim he is user 3000 (instead 3001). maxuser = 3000; printf("There are currently %d users out of %d possible.", (user < maxuser ? user : maxuser), maxuser); -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 28 10:18:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17255 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:18:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (host77-111.airnet.net [209.64.77.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17243 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:18:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@ninbox.ml.org) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00776; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:18:10 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <351D3EE1.AF52232D@ninbox.ml.org> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:18:09 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. References: <199803272054.MAA07807@implode.root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Greenman wrote: > > >On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Andreas Braukmann wrote: > > > >>> On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:20:15AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: > >>> > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ > >> > >>hhmm. I found the characterization for linux-users quite interesting: > >> "He needed the stability and power of Unix but didn't > >> know enough about Unix to configure FreeBSD. " > > > >Especially since I found FreeBSD much easier to properly configure than > >my Linux system. 'Course, I was running Slackware Linux with a 1.1.56? > >kernel. :) > > > >I found myself in the Linux camp on the survey above, though. I changed > >my answers three times and still was characterized as a Linux user. I'm > >going to wipe my HDD now and install Red Hat. > > Funny, I didn't answer any of the questions and was put into the Linux > camp. It's annoying yet interesting that it skips over OS/2 and FreeBSD > when it decides you're a Linux candidate. I wonder if it always decides > "linux" is best for you, no matter how you answer the questions? :-) I've been playing with it for a while and noticed a trend: if four of the questions are "right," the fifth doesn't matter. It appears to me that answering only one or two questions will determine the answer. Shoddy, huh? You have to pick the "reckless" ones to get FreeBSD. Isn't that nice? So according to C|NET we are all a bunch of caffeine- (or other substance of choice- ;-) fueled hackers without regard for the future, but instead living for the rush of the moment? Maybe so... -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 28 14:07:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15245 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:07:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15219 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:07:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15895; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:00:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <351D7313.23A6BD62@dal.net> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:00:51 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jason. ish" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. References: <001201bd59c3$9e34d800$0201a8c0@foo2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org jason. ish wrote: > > >hhmm. I found the characterization for linux-users quite interesting: > > "He needed the stability and power of Unix but didn't > > know enough about Unix to configure FreeBSD. " > > Kinda funny, I just installed FreeBSD last night for the first time and > found it went smoother and configured itself more the Debian Linux - I've > never used RedHat so can't compare tho. For what it's worth my linux-using friends all say that red hat is the cushiest installation and debian helps you learn more about unix. I personally have never used either. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 28 14:40:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18123 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:40:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18061 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:39:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26363; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:32:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803282232.OAA26363@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Studded cc: "jason. ish" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:00:51 PST." <351D7313.23A6BD62@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:32:55 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Personally,I think that the FreeBSD installation process is better than the RedHat one; actually it does not surprise for I am sure that JKH has taken a close at the major linux distributions. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 28 17:08:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06647 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:08:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ophelia.uoregon.edu (sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu [128.223.194.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06617 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:07:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (sharding@localhost) by ophelia.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA08067; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:07:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:07:33 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Harding Reply-To: Sean Harding To: Amancio Hasty cc: Studded , "jason. ish" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS Comparisons. In-Reply-To: <199803282232.OAA26363@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've always sort of seen Linux as the Windows of the Unix-like OS world. It may be easier and cleaner in some ways, but it really isn't the best for people who know what they are doing. FWIW, I use FreeBSD on a PC and run RedHat based Linux on my PowerMac...We also have RedHat at work. Sean -- "Believe me, the truth is we're not honest. Not the people that we dream." --10,000 Maniacs, "Eden" Sean Harding, sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~sharding/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message