From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 06:35:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA29218 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:22:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA29020 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:20:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23498; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:20:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804261320.GAA23498@rah.star-gate.com> To: dwilde1@ibm.net cc: Amancio Hasty , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Fun Themes In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:17:15 PDT." <35428B1B.CD238E2B@ibm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <23495.893596827.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:20:27 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sex instead of FreeBSD -- I am out of my box right now!! Have Fun Up North 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 09:06:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14427 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13468 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:57:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-66.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.66]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA08822; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:57:32 GMT Message-ID: <35433F5D.FEE6D24E@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:06:21 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! References: <199804251653.KAA24254@lariat.lariat.org> <354229B8.48145715@ibm.net> <19980425232236.46254@mooseriver.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > How about "Shoot out at Fort Apache" Yeah, except for the fact that our webserver experts -- especially an Apache expert from Apache.org -- are telling me we have to use a completely different webserver called Zeus which is in -ports, but only in a version two revs back (1.3 vs. 1.1). We need a name which promotes FreeBSD, Berkeley and free software in general. --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 11:51:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29555 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:27:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28020 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:13:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-205.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.205]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA97746; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:13:00 GMT Message-ID: <35437894.CFD08DE6@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:10:28 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com CC: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! References: <199804251653.KAA24254@lariat.lariat.org> <354229B8.48145715@ibm.net> <19980425232236.46254@mooseriver.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How about "The Great Free World Web Speed Challenge"? It's not a shoot-out yet, that will happen when we get everybody together, and since there will be complaints that we use unfair hardware, we will get our wish that the configurations will be more in our normal working grounds. We, the "free software" world are challenging the corporate world with our web speed. It's a speed test, and we're throwing the gauntlet right square in the face of Microsoft, Novell, IBM, HP, Sun, and everybody else. Comments? --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 11:51:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00506 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:32:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29849 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:29:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07389; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:28:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804261828.MAA07389@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:28:25 -0600 To: allen campbell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804250915.DAA19373@const.> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:15 AM 4/25/98 -0600, allen campbell wrote: >The Linux tide is raising all Unix boats. Strongly disagree. It's sinking SCO and Solaris, and it'll sink FreeBSD as well if FreeBSD is not promoted as a superior alternative. Remember, as Stewart Alsop said at the Senate hearings, there are many people who would prefer that there be *one* standard platform out there. And there are others (talk to any commercial developer!) who will *only* develop for the platform with the best numbers. These tendencies will work against FreeBSD -- in spades. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 12:16:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04456 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:04:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (algae15.verinet.com [199.45.181.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00260 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:30:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25014 for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:32:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:32:13 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199804261832.MAA25014@const.> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! In-Reply-To: <19980425232236.46254@mooseriver.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > > > The Great Web Crawl? (Naaah, sounds slow.) The Web Shooter Shootout? > > > Web Free-For-All? > > > > The last has _some_ possibilities... :\ > > > > Remember, this first one isn't a shootout, that's the Challenge. > > How about "Shoot out at Fort Apache" FreeSoft 98 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 12:17:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04463 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:04:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postoffice.onu.edu (postoffice.onu.edu [140.228.10.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00893 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:34:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from n-ludban@onu.edu) Received: from austin.onu.edu (austin.onu.edu [140.228.10.1]) by postoffice.onu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA15765; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:34:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:34:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Neil Ludban To: Don Wilde cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! In-Reply-To: <35433F5D.FEE6D24E@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 26 Apr 1998, Don Wilde wrote: > .... > We need a name which promotes FreeBSD, Berkeley and free software in > general. > > --> Don Something like "The Berkeley Freestyle Webslinging Showdown"? --Neil To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 12:17:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05122 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:12:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (algae15.verinet.com [199.45.181.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA03329 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:52:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25063 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:54:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:54:09 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199804261854.MAA25063@const.> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804261828.MAA07389@lariat.lariat.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >The Linux tide is raising all Unix boats. > > Strongly disagree. It's sinking SCO and Solaris, and it'll sink FreeBSD > as well if FreeBSD is not promoted as a superior alternative. Remember, > as Stewart Alsop said at the Senate hearings, there are many people > who would prefer that there be *one* standard platform out there. And > there are others (talk to any commercial developer!) who will *only* > develop for the platform with the best numbers. These tendencies > will work against FreeBSD -- in spades. With Linux, that 'one standard platform' is POSIX and X and source is open. FreeBSD and all of UNIX benefits from that. Our ports tree proves it. SCO is sinking for unrelated reasons. Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 13:52:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14716 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (root@jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14513 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:34:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul7.u.washington.edu (root@saul7.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.2]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id NAA14014; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:34:13 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul7.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id NAA03420; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:32:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: allen campbell cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! In-Reply-To: <199804261832.MAA25014@const.> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, allen campbell wrote: >FreeSoft 98 You want to sound like a certain commercail OS that crashed when it's master was demonstrating it? I vote no on this one. Thank you, | Try some of this. It will show you where you're at. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 13:56:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14154 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:30:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11981 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:07:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.43]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA10155; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:10:39 +0500 Message-ID: <354393DC.2781E494@asme.org> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:06:52 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: allen campbell CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804261854.MAA25063@const.> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org People that develop for Linux rarely take standards into account, besides POSIX was not a priority in the Linux camp until recently. SCO is IMHO the only standard platform. SCO (OpenServer) WAS sunk by Linux, the Free OpenServer came too late. The new Unixware may survive, but it's a different market..the type of market FreeBSD wants. In short: stop looking at the Linux kernel as the lifesaver; it's part of the problem, and remember Linux is not UNIX and it's not even an OS. Pedro. allen campbell wrote: >.... > > With Linux, that 'one standard platform' is POSIX and X and source > is open. FreeBSD and all of UNIX benefits from that. Our ports > tree proves it. > > SCO is sinking for unrelated reasons. > > Allen Campbell > allenc@verinet.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 14:25:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16661 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13296 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:21:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id OAA04026; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:21:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13194; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:22:07 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:22:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Marc Slemko To: Don Wilde cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! In-Reply-To: <35437894.CFD08DE6@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Don Wilde wrote: > How about "The Great Free World Web Speed Challenge"? > > It's not a shoot-out yet, that will happen when we get everybody > together, and since there will be complaints that we use unfair > hardware, we will get our wish that the configurations will be more in > our normal working grounds. > > We, the "free software" world are challenging the corporate world with > our web speed. It's a speed test, and we're throwing the gauntlet right > square in the face of Microsoft, Novell, IBM, HP, Sun, and everybody > else. And you will get it thrown right back in your face and have your ass kicked badly if you approach it this way. I'm really trying not to be negative about this, but you are a bit heavy on enthusiasm and a bit light on substance. 1. You want to use the most expensive hardware possible, solid state disks, etc. which you envision costing up to $100k for the box. At that level, you are competing against very big toys and I don't think you fully understand what you are up against or the time and money devoted by vendors to get the results that you see published and that you think you can beat. 2. You want to make a media circus out of something that you have no experience with, no test runs, no time for the way benchmarking is really done. It isn't a thing you can make fancy and glamorous that easy; the fact is that 99% of the work in benchmarking is ugly slogging that takes time. During this time there is nothing for people to see, no wild cheering, etc. This is the perfect formula for a big flop that ends up making a joke out of FreeBSD, Apache (or whatever web server you use), and gives the media a good laugh. 3. You are presuming you can get all this hardware together (remember you need some pretty big client machines as well to pull off the benchmark) without trouble, put it all together and make it work in the span of a couple of days, etc. If you instead tried to find and work a deal with a company with a lab that already has most of the setup necessary, you would probably have more luck. If you went for a half dozen average (aka. pretty cheap) servers (eg. ppro or p2, 512 megs of RAM, a couple of decent SCSI disks, couple of NICs, etc.) then had some massive load balancing hardware in front of them, you could probably do some very cool things in terms of total cost versus performance. Finding a load balancing box to handle that sort of traffic properly could take some doing and you need a tech from the vendor there to help with issues with the load balancer, but you may be able to get that without too much trouble since it could be great advertising for the company involved. This approach truly exploits commodity PC hardware, the lack of licensing costs for free software, etc. But again, approaching this from the viewpoint of making a media circus before you have any results dooms you to failure. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 15:08:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25743 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:02:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25263 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:58:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.50]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA10258; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:01:50 +0500 Message-ID: <3543ADEB.794BDF32@asme.org> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:58:03 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Windows 95 is not an OS because it still runs on "top" of DOS, M$ doesn't admit, but I would not consider it a technicality. Linux is not an OS because it doesn't include a standarized set of commands and utilities. Technically it's only a kernel. In any case what the end user "see" is not the kernel, but the GNU user land utilities, an of course this vary in every Linux "flavor" you find: Redhat's OS is different from Caldera's. Pedro "kill the penguin" Giffuni ;-) Ben Cohen wrote: > > >In short: stop looking at the Linux kernel as the lifesaver; it's part > >of the problem, and remember Linux is not UNIX and it's not even an OS. > > Why is Linux not an OS? Is it a technicality (like Windows 95)? > > Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 15:19:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26529 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:09:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from red.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@red.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23834 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:42:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23 (helo=localhost) by red.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 0yTZC2-0006gB-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:42:38 +0100 Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:42:38 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@red.csi.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <354393DC.2781E494@asme.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >In short: stop looking at the Linux kernel as the lifesaver; it's part >of the problem, and remember Linux is not UNIX and it's not even an OS. Why is Linux not an OS? Is it a technicality (like Windows 95)? Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 15:25:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26551 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:09:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22879 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:37:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA01456; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:37:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:37:22 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Neil Ludban cc: Don Wilde , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Neil Ludban wrote: > On 26 Apr 1998, Don Wilde wrote: > > .... > > We need a name which promotes FreeBSD, Berkeley and free software in > > general. > > > > --> Don > > Something like "The Berkeley Freestyle Webslinging Showdown"? Hm, 'Out of the Frying Pan and Into the Fire' has possibilities.... *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 15:54:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01888 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:48:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23838; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:43:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804262143.OAA23838@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: from Jan Koum at "Apr 25, 98 03:39:33 pm" To: jkb@best.com (Jan Koum) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jan Koum wrote: > On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > > >> On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:20:42 -0700, David Greenman > >> Interest in Slackware has waned. Redhat and Debian have taken its > >> place. Concluding that FreeBSD is growing faster than Linux, based on > >> Slackware sales at Walnut Creek, seems to be wishful thinking. > >> > >I don't think that DG is saying that Linux is shrinking, but the rate > >of increase in growth is decreasing. (Remember derivatives, in high > >school? :-)). > > Argh.. thanks for reminding me. I have a midterm next which which > involves Iterated integrals, triple integrals of more then 3 variables and > double integral in polar coordinates.. > And I though was going to enjoy this weekend. :) ahhh.....sounds likes electro-dynamics and fields. ee381 at unix of maryland....gawd i miss those days ;) the math really is beatiful, remarkable that it describes nature so well....why should it work at all. Yet it does. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 17:40:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12744 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:32:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (algae15.verinet.com [199.45.181.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12154 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:28:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26279 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:30:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:30:15 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199804270030.SAA26279@const.> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <3543ADEB.794BDF32@asme.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Windows 95 is not an OS because it still runs on "top" of DOS, M$ > doesn't admit, but I would not consider it a technicality. > > Linux is not an OS because it doesn't include a standarized set of > commands and utilities. Technically it's only a kernel. In any case what > the end user "see" is not the kernel, but the GNU user land utilities, > an of course this vary in every Linux "flavor" you find: Redhat's OS is > different from Caldera's. > This is pointless nonsense. This _was_ a discussion about market share, not an analysis of operating system manifestations. Technically doesn't matter. You are dwelling on minutia. What makes you think that drawing these distinctions has any relevance? Espousing your anal retentive punditry accomplishes nothing. This thread has lost any usefulness. Standardized is spelled with two d's. Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 18:10:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15758 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:02:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from euthyphro.uchicago.edu (euthyphro.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15599 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:00:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@phaedrus.uchicago.edu) Received: from phaedrus.uchicago.edu (phaedrus [128.135.21.10]) by euthyphro.uchicago.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA24769; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:00:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by phaedrus.uchicago.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA26389; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:59:51 -0500 (CDT) To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: allen campbell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804261854.MAA25063@const.> <354393DC.2781E494@asme.org> From: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 26 Apr 1998 19:59:51 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Pedro F. Giffuni"'s message of "Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:06:52 -0500" Message-ID: <8767jwrse0.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.3/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Pedro F. Giffuni" writes: > People that develop for Linux rarely take standards into account, > besides POSIX was not a priority in the Linux camp until > recently. SCO is IMHO the only standard platform. Huh? Name some recent linux projects that have been successful? gimp? runs fine on freebsd. kde? runs fine as well. even linux binaries run. I do agree that FreeBSD needs to paint itself as a better linux than linux -- can't believe i just said that ;-)!! ... but i don't think your argument that linux software won't run under freebsd b/c they write it linux-specific is tenable. -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 21:04:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04199 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03996 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:02:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.38]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA10468; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:05:43 +0500 Message-ID: <35440335.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:01:57 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: allen campbell CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804270030.SAA26279@const.> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 1) it's chat :-) 2) It is relevant when you think of FreeBSD as one OS and Linux as 6 or 7 different OS's. Forgive my spelling, I'm not native and I learned English 20 years ago, the last time I visited the US was over ten years ago. Pedro. allen campbell wrote: > ... > > This is pointless nonsense. This _was_ a discussion about market > share, not an analysis of operating system manifestations. Technically > doesn't matter. You are dwelling on minutia. What makes you think > that drawing these distinctions has any relevance? Espousing your > anal retentive punditry accomplishes nothing. This thread has lost > any usefulness. Standardized is spelled with two d's. > > Allen Campbell > allenc@verinet.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 21:13:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05759 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:12:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05685 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:11:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.38]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA10477; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:14:12 +0500 Message-ID: <35440534.167EB0E7@asme.org> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:10:28 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804261854.MAA25063@const.> <354393DC.2781E494@asme.org> <8767jwrse0.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Of course gimp and kde run well on FreeBSD..*we* ported them. I have ported many programs and it's not always easy. TBH, some authors even seem proud of making their software Linux dependant, there are many examples, but of course you won't find those apps in the ports tree. It is not the general case, of course, some people do care. Pedro. sfarrell+lists@farrell.org wrote: > > "Pedro F. Giffuni" writes: > > > People that develop for Linux rarely take standards into account, > > besides POSIX was not a priority in the Linux camp until > > recently. SCO is IMHO the only standard platform. > > Huh? > > Name some recent linux projects that have been successful? gimp? > runs fine on freebsd. kde? runs fine as well. even linux binaries > run. > > I do agree that FreeBSD needs to paint itself as a better linux than > linux -- can't believe i just said that ;-)!! ... but i don't think > your argument that linux software won't run under freebsd b/c they > write it linux-specific is tenable. > > -- > > Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 21:19:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06178 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:17:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06135 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:16:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-118.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.118]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA30071 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:16:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA06475 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:12:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804262312.SAA06475@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Message from allen campbell of "Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:54:09 MDT." <199804261854.MAA25063@const.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:12:09 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org allen campbell writes: > > With Linux, that 'one standard platform' is POSIX and X and source > is open. FreeBSD and all of UNIX benefits from that. Our ports > tree proves it. I keep forgetting, *which* Linux is the 'one standard platform'? ;-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 21:22:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06859 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:21:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06760 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.38]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA10497; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:23:31 +0500 Message-ID: <3544075C.446B9B3D@asme.org> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:19:40 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org CC: allen campbell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804261854.MAA25063@const.> <354393DC.2781E494@asme.org> <8767jwrse0.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org sfarrell+lists@farrell.org wrote: > > "Pedro F. Giffuni" writes: > > > People that develop for Linux rarely take standards into account, > > besides POSIX was not a priority in the Linux camp until > > recently. SCO is IMHO the only standard platform. > > Huh? > > Name some recent linux projects that have been successful? gimp? > runs fine on freebsd. kde? runs fine as well. even linux binaries > run. > > I do agree that FreeBSD needs to paint itself as a better linux than > linux -- can't believe i just said that ;-)!! ... but i don't think > your argument that linux software won't run under freebsd b/c they > write it linux-specific is tenable. > BTW, that is NOT my argument: I'm speaking of the OS, and Linuxs lack of respect to standards. I have an old linux manual around "installation and getting started" that says that POSIX was not in their priority list. AFAIK they claim to by SYSV-like, but they don't have poll(), and there are no plans to follow the single UNIX specification. Let's not talk more about Linux...it's depressing. Pedro. > -- > > Steve Farrell > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 21:47:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11723 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:47:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11655 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:46:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02644; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:46:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <35440DBD.82A8A7AE@san.rr.com> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:46:53 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0426 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" CC: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804261854.MAA25063@const.> <354393DC.2781E494@asme.org> <8767jwrse0.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> <35440534.167EB0E7@asme.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > Of course gimp and kde run well on FreeBSD..*we* ported them. I have > ported many programs and it's not always easy. > > TBH, some authors even seem proud of making their software Linux > dependant, there are many examples, but of course you won't find those > apps in the ports tree. It is not the general case, of course, some > people do care. WINE is a good case of an app that doesn't work in freebsd because the developers all use linux and don't care about cross-platform portability. Several of the apps that are packaged with afterstep are examples of authors that are proud to be linux only. This problem is much more widespread than many in the freebsd camp realize, and cuts to the heart of why linux has a much more rabid and devoted following. There is more "cool stuff" for linux and much of it is linux only. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 22:02:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13932 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:02:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from euthyphro.uchicago.edu (euthyphro.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13926 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:02:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@phaedrus.uchicago.edu) Received: from phaedrus.uchicago.edu (phaedrus [128.135.21.10]) by euthyphro.uchicago.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA25501; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:02:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by phaedrus.uchicago.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id AAA28279; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:02:17 -0500 (CDT) To: Studded Cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804261854.MAA25063@const.> <354393DC.2781E494@asme.org> <8767jwrse0.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> <35440534.167EB0E7@asme.org> <35440DBD.82A8A7AE@san.rr.com> From: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 27 Apr 1998 00:02:17 -0500 In-Reply-To: Studded's message of "Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:46:53 -0700" Message-ID: <87emyjrh5y.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Lines: 42 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.3/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Studded writes: > WINE is a good case of an app that doesn't work in freebsd because the > developers all use linux and don't care about cross-platform > portability. Well... the problem there which I'm aware of is that they want to support win32 threading, and they're doing it on top of clone(). I"m not sure whether they're could/should/are doing this on pthreads... but I do know (a) threading in freebsd needs more work (b) clone() is one of the things that will be implemented in freebsd. I've run into another linux app--a neat mp3 player--that also needed threads and so didn't run well under freebsd. So I could be wrong, but it sounds like they need a feature which freebsd doesn't *yet* provide. I'm not sure this is their fault. > Several of the apps that are packaged with afterstep > are examples of authors that are proud to be linux only. You mean like cpu meters? those are always os dependant (at least partially). > This problem is much more widespread than many in the freebsd camp > realize, and cuts to the heart of why linux has a much more rabid > and devoted following. There is more "cool stuff" for linux and much > of it is linux only. In most cases, however, isn't this because linux supports a feature that freebsd doesn't which is essential to the nature of the app, e.g., threading? (also possibly multimedia or device support that might lack in freebsd). Anyway, I'm not sure that this discussion has any point (at least the side I'm arguing ;-). what should we do? What's the goal? -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 23:24:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25379 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:24:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (root@piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25371 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:24:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) Received: from grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (md6tommy@grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.21]) by piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06991; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:24:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (md6tommy@localhost) by grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA20498; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:24:07 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se: md6tommy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:24:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: Tommy Hallgren To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <3543ADEB.794BDF32@asme.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > Windows 95 is not an OS because it still runs on "top" of DOS, M$ > doesn't admit, but I would not consider it a technicality. Ridiculous! Windows 95 uses only the BIOS/DOS when native code cannot be used. Even FreeBSD uses the BIOS for certain things, are you saying that FreeBSD isn't an OS because of that? Tommy Hallgren(md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) - the source of all good beers... Go to http://www.freebsd.org and get real BSD Unix. Today! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 26 23:26:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25777 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:26:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (root@piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25771 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:26:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) Received: from grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (md6tommy@grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.21]) by piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07168; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:26:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (md6tommy@localhost) by grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA20534; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:26:22 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se: md6tommy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:26:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: Tommy Hallgren To: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , allen campbell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <8767jwrse0.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 26 Apr 1998 sfarrell+lists@farrell.org wrote: > I do agree that FreeBSD needs to paint itself as a better linux than > linux Good idea! A better Windows really brought OS/2 to the skies! ;-) Tommy Hallgren(md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) - the source of all good beers... Go to http://www.freebsd.org and get real BSD Unix. Today! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 00:57:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12118 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:57:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from enterprise.tht.net (root@tht.net [209.47.145.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA12113 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:57:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beef@cybertouch.org) Received: from cybertouch.org(really [209.47.145.231]) by enterprise.tht.net via sendmail with esmtp id for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 03:56:53 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Mar-7) Message-ID: <354439EC.D3CEB2E6@cybertouch.org> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 03:55:25 -0400 From: Lanny Baron Organization: York Hill Foods X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Printing (can't get it right) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I am wondering if anyone else here besides Mr. Lehey (hi Greg) has been able to get a printer such as a Canon BJC-4100 to print, legibly. I have tried with ghostscript (can't figure that either), with postscript (ditto) and have now pulled about 320 hairs out of my head. If anyone has the inclination to help me to be able to print docs and the like, much appreciated would be a total understatement. Greg, if you read this, this in NOT in anyway to be construed to insult your great works on books such as The Complete FreeBSD ( I bought and am reading it), nor your valuble words sent to lists such as this. I guess that is why I could never sit in school and study. Thanks in advance for your kind and gracious help. Lanny Baron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 01:10:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14947 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:10:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14844 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:10:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05489; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804270810.BAA05489@implode.root.com> To: "Root wcarchive.cdrom.com" cc: ftp-stats@wcarchive.cdrom.com, tech@cdrom.com, maintainers@wcarchive.cdrom.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dual Log Stats - 1998/04/27 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:55:22 PDT." <199804270755.AAA04297@wcarchive.cdrom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:10:02 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Current Record Delta > --------------------- --------------------- --------------------- > Bytes 326,412,384,034 326,412,384,034 New Record! > Files 1,209,747 1,249,597 -39,850 > > FTP Bytes 306,166,038,843 306,166,038,843 New Record! > FTP Files 861,892 861,892 New Record! > HTTP Bytes 20,246,345,191 58,081,249,072 -37,834,903,881 > HTTP Files 347,855 567,700 -219,845 ... > Total FTP HTTP Total FTP HTTP Total Total > Bytes Bytes Bytes Files Files Files %Bytes %Files >-------------- -------- -------- -------- ------- ------- ------- ------ ------ >/FreeBSD 40,752M 40,723M 28M 193,639 188,226 5,413 15.09 22.12 >/simtelnet 31,026M 28,131M 2,894M 64,322 55,312 9,010 11.49 7.35 >/planetquake 25,558M 22,676M 2,882M 21,209 18,163 3,046 9.47 2.42 >/idgames 24,869M 24,048M 821M 20,724 15,664 5,060 9.21 2.37 >/linux 21,926M 21,246M 679M 86,759 78,479 8,280 8.12 9.91 >/idgames2 20,559M 13,086M 7,472M 66,769 36,536 30,233 7.61 7.63 >/games 20,457M 20,240M 217M 16,785 14,730 2,055 7.58 1.92 >/gamesdomain 19,984M 19,582M 402M 3,127 2,567 560 7.40 0.36 >/3dfxmania 19,360M 19,166M 193M 10,597 10,217 380 7.17 1.21 ... Yup, a new record for wcarchive. This beats the old record by about 15%. I suppose a bit of explanation is in order. For various reasons, I needed to change the way that ftp's "LIST" (ls) command reports the dates in the file list so that the time is GMT rather than the machine's local time. This had the unfortunate side effect of causing mirrors of wcarchive to re-mirror the files in the archive and thus resulted in more traffic than usual. I have reason to believe that some corrupted files went out to the mirrors last week as a result of the memory failure in the machine, so the re-mirror isn't an entirely bad thing. Still, mirrors or not, we wouldn't have set the new record without other things converging as well - such as improved network connectivity and improvements I've been making to the performance of FTP on wcarchive. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 01:15:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16013 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:15:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16007 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:15:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05539; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804270815.BAA05539@implode.root.com> To: "Root wcarchive.cdrom.com" cc: ftp-stats@wcarchive.cdrom.com, tech@cdrom.com, maintainers@wcarchive.cdrom.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dual Log Stats - 1998/04/27 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:10:02 PDT." <199804270810.BAA05489@implode.root.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:15:38 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oops, I cut/pasted from a wrong window for the stats breakdown excerpt. Here is the correct information: Total FTP HTTP Total FTP HTTP Total Total Bytes Bytes Bytes Files Files Files %Bytes %Files -------------- -------- -------- -------- ------- ------- ------- ------ ------ /linux 49,009M 48,555M 454M 200,409 192,505 7,904 15.01 16.57 /FreeBSD 45,317M 45,305M 12M 287,208 284,913 2,295 13.88 23.74 /simtelnet 42,796M 39,473M 3,323M 65,637 55,914 9,723 13.11 5.43 /planetquake 26,613M 23,031M 3,581M 26,990 22,829 4,161 8.15 2.23 /idgames2 25,628M 19,198M 6,429M 81,952 56,099 25,853 7.85 6.77 /idgames 24,040M 23,169M 870M 34,044 28,881 5,163 7.37 2.81 /3dfxmania 21,091M 20,998M 93M 10,395 10,110 285 6.46 0.86 /gamesdomain 18,404M 17,815M 588M 2,599 2,084 515 5.64 0.21 /games 18,081M 17,873M 207M 17,321 14,635 2,686 5.54 1.43 ...(chopped)... ...the first part (326GB total for the day) was correct. Sorry about that. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 02:34:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28641 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:34:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28522 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:33:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([192.122.138.250]) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA13526; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:03:47 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id KAA00415; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:31:12 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <19980427103110.48503@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:31:10 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: IBM marketing (was: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop.) References: <199804240622.XAA07872@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpwwcf4nib=2Efsf=40hrotti=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B_from?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Fri=2C_Apr_24=2C_1998_a?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?t_10=3A44=3A42AM_+0200?= WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 24 April 1998 at 10:44:42 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > Terry Lambert writes: >> nearly equalled unemulated hardware. IBM is technically competent in >> most regards (brilliant in some, which is surprising; management tends to >> fear brilliant things). > > Hear hear. They don't, however, have *any* sense of marketing. I can't comment on IBM in the US nowadays, but 15 years ago they were considered the best marketing machine in the world. I agreed. > (Somebody once told me that when they saw OS/2 Warp ads on TV, they > felt an inexplicable urge to drink Sprite) In the US or in Norway? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 02:35:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA29072 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:35:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA29040 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:35:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([192.122.138.250]) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA13559; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:05:29 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id NAA00584; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:27:10 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <19980427132709.40935@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:27:09 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , allen campbell Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD References: <199804220428.WAA12693@const.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpwwcgz8z3=2Efsf=40hrotti=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B_from?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Thu=2C_Apr_23=2C_1998_a?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?t_08=3A30=3A40PM_+0200?= WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 23 April 1998 at 20:30:40 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > allen campbell writes: >> Linux is still much bigger, but it is pretty obvious we are receiving >> more notice every day. > > I'm not certain that Linux is bigger, at least not everywhere. It > certainly is much more visible on the Occidental scene, though. > However, I am under the impression that in Southeast Asia, FreeBSD > users greatly outnumber Linux users. I'm currently in South-East Asia. I can't confirm your impression. On the other hand, in Japan (East, not South-East Asia), FreeBSD has much more presence than elsewhere. I still think it probably lags behind Linux. > And even in Europe and the Americas, remember that a large portion of > FreeBSD installations are invisible: servers, routers, the kind of > machines which just sit there and do their job without ever getting > noticed by the general public. To judge by the number of press releases, the same probably applies to Linux. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 02:38:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA29788 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:38:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA29779 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08135 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:38:23 +0100 (BST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA19943; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:38:13 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19980427103813.03099@iii.co.uk> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:38:13 +0100 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Solaris calls Hotmail shots for Microsoft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Forwarded to me by a colleague, I don't have the URL handy. Mostly Solaris praising (and NT bashing) but there is a FreeBSD mention as well. -----(snip)----- Solaris calls Hotmail shots for Microsoft Microsoft has decided to get the hots for Sun and is using Solaris to run its acclaimed Hotmail web-based e-mail service instead of NT. The software giant has attempted to exchange the Sun/Solaris infrastructure of Hotmail with NT since buying it in December 1997. However, the demands of supporting 10 million users reportedly proved too great for NT, and Solaris was reinstated. In a leaked report, sources close to Hotmail said: "... its whole mail server infrastructure is Solaris. NT couldn't handle it. On the web server, they're running MP Pentiums and Apache on FreeBSD. They're moving to Solaris for threads. The engineering team did its best to run NT - and failed. The issue's being escalated." Hotmail is running Apache's /1.2.1 web server which is not available for NT due to technical difficulties. A statement on Apache's website states: "The road to Windows NT has not been a pretty one. Several attempts have been made, both by Apache Group members and outside folks, but due to a lack of stability and a clear consensus on how to manage a true cross-platform development project, NT is not yet a standard platform supported by Apache." Microsoft is currently recruiting engineers for Hotmail, but NT specialists need not apply. Hotmail's website lists vacancies for an operations software engineer and a QA engineer - and the common requirement is for Unix experience. Judy Gibbons, director of the Microsoft Network, was unaware of the hardware behind Hotmail, but said: "We looked at all the on-line mail services and Hotmail was far and away the best. It has the most proven and scalable architecture." First appeared in Network News, 22-April - 1998 -----End of forwarded message----- -- *DON'T DO THIS*. It is *BAD* engineering. *BAD* engineers *DESERVE* to be unemployed, living under park benches, and feeding off of slow moving pigeons. -- Terry Lambert, in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 06:43:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA13251 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 06:43:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (jonny@roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA13129; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 06:42:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@coe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27788; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:42:36 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199804271342.KAA27788@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/who who.c In-Reply-To: <199804262132.OAA21363@burka.rdy.com> from Dima Ruban at "Apr 26, 98 02:32:50 pm" To: dima@best.net Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:42:36 -0300 (EST) Cc: mph@pobox.com, des@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org #define quoting(Dima Ruban) // Matthew Hunt writes: // > On Sun, Apr 26, 1998 at 12:10:52PM -0700, Dag-Erling C. Smf8rgrav wrote: // > // > > Check that user really typed "who am {I,i}", and that no stray // > > arguments are given. // > // > The end of an era... // > // > $ who kicks ass // > mph ttyp0 Apr 22 17:33 (:0.0) // > // // Hehe :-) // That reminds me of: // burka# make love // make: don't know how to make love. Stop // burka# Say that for your Makefiles. Mine know how to make love. :) // // (there were bunch of similar unix jokes :-) // // > -- // > Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. // > http://mph124.rh.psu.edu/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. // > // // -- dima // // To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org // with "unsubscribe cvs-all" in the body of the message // Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 ( Job ) jonny@coppe.ufrj.br M.Sc. Student Electrical Engineering Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 07:03:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA16893 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:03:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA16834 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:03:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (jack@localhost) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.Beta3) with SMTP id KAA13404; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:01:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:01:56 -0400 (EDT) From: jack To: Tommy Hallgren cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Tommy Hallgren wrote: > On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > > Windows 95 is not an OS because it still runs on "top" of DOS, M$ > > doesn't admit, but I would not consider it a technicality. > > Ridiculous! Windows 95 uses only the BIOS/DOS when native code cannot > be used. Even FreeBSD uses the BIOS for certain things, are you saying > that FreeBSD isn't an OS because of that? Where did Pedro say anything about the BIOS? Show me a Windows95 kernel. The kernel is DOS. Windows[x.x/9x] is a SHELL. Someone has even had Win95 running on OS/2's DOS. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc. Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 07:13:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18815 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:13:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from red.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@red.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17695 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:07:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23 (helo=localhost) by red.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 0yToWW-0007ma-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:04:48 +0100 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:04:48 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@red.csi.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: jack cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> > Windows 95 is not an OS because it still runs on "top" of DOS, M$ >> > doesn't admit, but I would not consider it a technicality. >> >> Ridiculous! Windows 95 uses only the BIOS/DOS when native code cannot >> be used. Even FreeBSD uses the BIOS for certain things, are you saying >> that FreeBSD isn't an OS because of that? Does FreeBSD use the BIOS for anything other than booting up and installation? Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 07:41:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24293 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (root@piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24269 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:41:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) Received: from grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (md6tommy@grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.21]) by piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12607; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:41:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (md6tommy@localhost) by grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA21456; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:41:20 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se: md6tommy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:41:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: Tommy Hallgren To: jack cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, jack wrote: > The kernel is DOS. It is not. It interacts with DOS/BIOS when necessary. It could be when native 32-bit PM driver could not be used for some reasons. > Windows[x.x/9x] is a SHELL. Someone has even had Win95 running on > OS/2's DOS. Don't believe everything you read on the Net. Tommy Hallgren(md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) - the source of all good beers... Go to http://www.freebsd.org and get real BSD Unix. Today! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 08:21:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02683 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:21:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02674 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:21:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id RAA26453; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:21:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:21:33 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: jack Cc: Tommy Hallgren , "Pedro F. Giffuni" , bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 27 Apr 1998 17:21:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: jack's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:01:56 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 24 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org jack writes: > On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Tommy Hallgren wrote: > > On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > > Windows 95 is not an OS because it still runs on "top" of DOS, M$ > > > doesn't admit, but I would not consider it a technicality. > > Ridiculous! Windows 95 uses only the BIOS/DOS when native code cannot > > be used. Even FreeBSD uses the BIOS for certain things, are you saying > > that FreeBSD isn't an OS because of that? > Where did Pedro say anything about the BIOS? Show me a Windows95 > kernel. The kernel is DOS. Windows[x.x/9x] is a SHELL. Someone > has even had Win95 running on OS/2's DOS. As much as I dislike WindowsXX, I have to disagree with you. Give Microsoft *some* credit. Windows 3.1 in standard mode is a shell. Windows 3.1x in extended mode (or running with the Win32s extensions) as well as Windows 95 and Windows NT have many of the characteristics of an operating system. And as to that OS/2 thing, I used to know this Someone person, but he had a nasty habit of handwaving questions about the reliability of his sources, so we don't see eachother much anymore. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 08:30:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03791 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03784 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:30:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19533; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804271530.JAA19533@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:29:55 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:01 AM 4/27/98 -0400, jack wrote: >Where did Pedro say anything about the BIOS? Show me a Windows95 >kernel. The kernel is DOS. Windows[x.x/9x] is a SHELL. Someone >has even had Win95 running on OS/2's DOS. It'll even run on Caldera's OpenDOS. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 08:32:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04132 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:32:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04102 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:32:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27015; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:32:13 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA02853; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:32:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980427173211.55066@follo.net> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:32:11 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, jack Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Ben Cohen on Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 03:04:48PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 03:04:48PM +0100, Ben Cohen wrote: > >> > Windows 95 is not an OS because it still runs on "top" of DOS, M$ > >> > doesn't admit, but I would not consider it a technicality. > >> > >> Ridiculous! Windows 95 uses only the BIOS/DOS when native code cannot > >> be used. Even FreeBSD uses the BIOS for certain things, are you saying > >> that FreeBSD isn't an OS because of that? > > Does FreeBSD use the BIOS for anything other than booting up and > installation? No, not at the moment, unless you count APM. There has just been added code to allow further use of the BIOS; this might result in fall-back drivers, allowing you to boot from a BIOS-supported disk without a FreeBSD-specific driver. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 08:41:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05853 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:41:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA05824 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:40:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id RAA29125; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:40:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:40:30 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund Cc: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, jack , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <19980427173211.55066@follo.net> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 27 Apr 1998 17:40:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: Eivind Eklund's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:32:11 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund writes: > There has just been added code to allow further use of the BIOS; this > might result in fall-back drivers, allowing you to boot from a > BIOS-supported disk without a FreeBSD-specific driver. Performance issues blah blah blah... -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 08:47:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06909 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:47:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06463 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:44:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27312; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:43:53 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA02892; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:43:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980427174348.15863@follo.net> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:43:48 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <19980427173211.55066@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpn2d7mfwy=2Efsf=40hrotti=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B_from?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Mon=2C_Apr_27=2C_1998_a?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?t_05=3A40=3A29PM_+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 05:40:29PM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > Eivind Eklund writes: > > There has just been added code to allow further use of the BIOS; this > > might result in fall-back drivers, allowing you to boot from a > > BIOS-supported disk without a FreeBSD-specific driver. > > Performance issues blah blah blah... This is intended to allow GENERIC and friends to boot a controller (e.g. the DPT) before the actual driver has been compiled into the kernel. A bad-performing controller is better than no controller etc. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 09:34:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16971 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:34:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16965 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:34:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20723; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:34:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <3544B38A.702805B8@san.rr.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:34:19 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0426 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804261854.MAA25063@const.> <354393DC.2781E494@asme.org> <8767jwrse0.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> <35440534.167EB0E7@asme.org> <35440DBD.82A8A7AE@san.rr.com> <87emyjrh5y.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I realize that you're not being argumentative, I just want to provide some more details here. sfarrell+lists@farrell.org wrote: > > Studded writes: > > > WINE is a good case of an app that doesn't work in freebsd because the > > developers all use linux and don't care about cross-platform > > portability. > > Well... the problem there which I'm aware of is that they want to > support win32 threading, and they're doing it on top of clone(). I"m > not sure whether they're could/should/are doing this on > pthreads... but I do know (a) threading in freebsd needs more work (b) > clone() is one of the things that will be implemented in freebsd. I used to follow the WINE newsgroup quite closely and saw the "do we care about portability" convo happen many times. They don't. In fact it's so bad at times that Linus actually scolds them about it. I asked several times if ANYONE was interested in making the thing work on FreeBSD, offered my assistance, as have several others. There is never any response to these offers. > I've run into another linux app--a neat mp3 player--that also needed > threads and so didn't run well under freebsd. > > So I could be wrong, but it sounds like they need a feature which > freebsd doesn't *yet* provide. I'm not sure this is their fault. Many people who develop apps on linux are blissfully ignorant about portability issues. Others state explicitly that they don't care because it runs for them. I'm not trying to place blame, I'm simply trying to describe the current landscape. > > Several of the apps that are packaged with afterstep > > are examples of authors that are proud to be linux only. > > You mean like cpu meters? those are always os dependant (at least > partially). No, I mean like the cd player, the mixer, the trashcan... I have a list somewhere but less than half of the "toys" that are included with the package build. [snip] > Anyway, I'm not sure that this discussion has any point (at least the > side I'm arguing ;-). what should we do? What's the goal? If we're going to work towards the goal of increasing awareness and popularity for FreeBSD we have to know where we stand in comparison to our competition. Knowing WHY linux has such a strong following in spite of being technically inferior would help us with that goal. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 10:25:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27193 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:25:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27186 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:25:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21025; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:24:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804271724.LAA21025@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:24:50 -0600 To: Tommy Hallgren , jack From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing Cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:41 PM 4/27/98 +0200, Tommy Hallgren wrote: >Don't believe everything you read on the Net. I don't; however, I believe Andrew Schulman, who has documented the ways in which Windows 95 depends on DOS at great length. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 11:03:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA03383 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:03:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (root@piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA03264 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:02:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) Received: from scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se (md6tommy@scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.20]) by piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA09483; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:02:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (md6tommy@localhost) by scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00289; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:02:48 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se: md6tommy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:02:48 +0200 (MET DST) From: Tommy Hallgren To: Ben Cohen cc: jack , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Ben Cohen wrote: > Does FreeBSD use the BIOS for anything other than booting up and > installation? Not much right now, but it probably will in the future since supporting all kinds of hardware is a waste of time when the BIOS already supports it. ACPI, APM, SMBus and PCI comes to mind. Tommy Hallgren(md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) - the source of all good beers... Go to http://www.freebsd.org and get real BSD Unix. Today! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 11:13:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05549 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:13:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05348 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:12:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.48]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA11319; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:14:07 +0500 Message-ID: <3544C7BF.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:00:31 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tommy Hallgren CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FWIW, I think the real point here is that FreeBSD is a better UNIX than Linux... POSIX != UNIX remember that NT is also POSIX and has C2 security (ha!!). And, yes I do consider NT a true OS. Pedro. Tommy Hallgren wrote: > > On 26 Apr 1998 sfarrell+lists@farrell.org wrote: > > > I do agree that FreeBSD needs to paint itself as a better linux than > > linux > > Good idea! A better Windows really brought OS/2 to the skies! > > ;-) > > Tommy Hallgren(md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) - the source of all good beers... > > Go to http://www.freebsd.org and get real BSD Unix. Today! > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 11:18:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06589 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:18:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06572 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:18:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id UAA22482 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:15:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02548; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:20:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980427192001.A2537@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:20:01 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Collecting URL's / articles for my Unix Promo Corner Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Do you have something for http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/#Unix Promo corner I'm just collecting articles, URL's, everything ! Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 11:35:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09846 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:35:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from red.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@red.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09839 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:35:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23 (helo=localhost) by red.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org id 0yTskG-0000Ap-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:35:16 +0100 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:35:16 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@red.csi.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Why is Win NT slower than others? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! Why is Windows NT Server slower than other servers such as FreeBSD? Is there anything in the argument that this could be because Windows NT Server is graphical (it uses the Win95 interface) whereas BSD isn't [need not be]? Is it because of inefficient programming by Microsoft? (I've read that they use basically the same TCP/IP programming as BSD.) Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 13:00:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25239 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:00:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25229 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:00:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01408 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:57:19 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3544E31D.B91A18E4@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:57:18 +0300 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Organization: GlavAPU X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: Ann: 'javadoc' like Documentation Generator For C++] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------267E490DBCD7FBB1C1383C5C" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------267E490DBCD7FBB1C1383C5C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I want native freebsd version. -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA --------------267E490DBCD7FBB1C1383C5C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++,comp.object,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.unix.solaris,comp.sys.hp.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.software-eng,comp.lang.c,fj.lang.c++,comp.sys.sun.apps Path: freenews.gu.net!titanic.visualtek.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!ix.netcom.com!objsoft From: objsoft@netcom.com (ObjectSoftware) Subject: Ann: 'javadoc' like Documentation Generator For C++ Message-ID: Summary: ObjectManual New Release Available Keywords: C++, JAVA, HTML, Documentation, MIF, "man" Organization: Netcom On-Line Services X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #9 Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:47:18 GMT Sender: objsoft@netcom20.netcom.com Xref: freenews.gu.net comp.lang.c++:21586 comp.object:5472 comp.sys.sgi.apps:1284 comp.unix.solaris:13211 comp.sys.hp.apps:444 comp.os.linux.misc:26388 comp.software-eng:3228 comp.lang.c:21094 comp.sys.sun.apps:533 ObjectManual - Auto C++ to HTML, MIF & JAVA Documentation Generator -------------------------------------------------------------- URL : http://www.obsoft.com ObjectManual is a 'javadoc' like utility that extracts comments and relevant information from your C++/C programs and generates HTML pages from it. For a complete list of its features, download the technical paper on ObjectManual from our home page. This release is a full release for Linux & WinNT platforms. Also, for Linux & WinNT platforms this release is *free* for *non-commercial* organizations & entities. Software for the following architectures is available via FTP/HTTP. a. SunOS 4.1.X (SPARC) b. Solaris 2.X (SPARC) c. HP9000 HPUX 9.X & 10.X d. Windows NT/Windows 95 (NOTE: requires 32 bit unzip utility) e. Linux (ELF x86) f. SGI IRIX 5.X & 6.X New Features Added: ------------------ a. Class dependency listing is generated as part of documentation. b. Bug fixes. Download Instructions: ---------------------- a. URL : http://www.obsoft.com b. FTP : 1. ftp www.obsoft.com -- login as anonymous 2. bin - for binary transfer. 3. cd pub/ObjectManual 4. get ObjectManual..tar.Z or objman.zip -- for Windows After download (for UNIX): a. uncompress ObjectManual..tar b. tar xvf - < ObjectManual..tar After download (for NT): a. ntunzip objman.zip (*32 bit unzip utility is required*) b. install.exe Contents: --------- a. ObjectManual native binary for the platform of choice. b. User's guide in PostScript format. Coming soon the User's guide in HTML format. A FAQ Chapter is distributed in HTML format. c. Necessary files for the executable. d. Necessary JAVA "clases" for graphically displaying class info. Important Request: ------------------ Please provide us with your valuable feedback at info@obsoft.com regarding ObjectManual. It will help us improve the quality, layout and future design of the software. All suggestions, comments are welcome. Thanks. Washi Baig. ObjectSoftware, Inc. C++ Development & Testing Tools. URL : http://www.obsoft.com 3519 Misty Meadow, Dallas, TX 75287 Ph : (214)-373-201 Fax : (972)-662-0827 Email: info@obsoft.com wbaig@obsoft.com --------------267E490DBCD7FBB1C1383C5C-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 13:37:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01681 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:37:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01655 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:37:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id WAA06898; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:30:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16335; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:24:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980427222408.A16053@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:24:08 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: nik@iii.co.uk, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Solaris calls Hotmail shots for Microsoft References: <19980427103813.03099@iii.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980427103813.03099@iii.co.uk>; from nik@iii.co.uk on Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 10:38:13AM +0100 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 10:38:13AM +0100, nik@iii.co.uk wrote: > In a leaked report, sources close to Hotmail said: "... its whole mail > server infrastructure is Solaris. NT couldn't handle it. On the web > server, they're running MP Pentiums and Apache on FreeBSD. They're ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > moving to Solaris for threads. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Does that mean we are not performing well enough without doing more on our threads implementation ? Someone with a good guess ? Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 14:12:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08499 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:12:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (root@jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08376 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:11:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul4.u.washington.edu (root@saul4.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.2]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id OAA19022; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:11:48 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id OAA11232; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:10:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: Lanny Baron cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printing (can't get it right) In-Reply-To: <354439EC.D3CEB2E6@cybertouch.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Lanny Baron wrote: > Hi, > > I am wondering if anyone else here besides Mr. Lehey (hi Greg) has >been able to get a printer such as a Canon BJC-4100 to print, legibly. I For best results, repost this to -questions. Thank you, | Try some of this. It will show you where you're at. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 14:33:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14112 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:33:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1701.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14106 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:33:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by ppp6439.on.bellglobal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00786; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:53:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: ppp6439.on.bellglobal.com: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:53:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@ppp6439.on.bellglobal.com Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Lanny Baron cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printing (can't get it right) In-Reply-To: <354439EC.D3CEB2E6@cybertouch.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Lanny Baron wrote: > I am wondering if anyone else here besides Mr. Lehey (hi Greg) has > been able to get a printer such as a Canon BJC-4100 to print, legibly. I > have tried with ghostscript (can't figure that either), with postscript > (ditto) and have now pulled about 320 hairs out of my head. That one exactly. Prints like a charm. What exactly is the problem? The only gotcha I remember was needing to switch the port to polled mode (``lptcontrol -p'') to prevent insanely slow printing. [Incidentally, the supplied Windows driver probably goes absolutely nuts with the polling, since printing anything from Windows makes the rest of the computer slow to the point of inusability]. I'd suggest your problem might not be with the printer itself (assuming the printer is known good). -- Only two other people have a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 14:38:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15125 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:38:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from marlin.corp.gulf.net (root@marlin.corp.gulf.net [198.69.72.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14979 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:37:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tbackman@corp.gulf.net) Received: from marlin.corp.gulf.net (tbackman@marlin.corp.gulf.net [206.105.61.2]) by marlin.corp.gulf.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA20509; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:37:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:37:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Todd Backman To: Ben Cohen cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Ben Cohen wrote: > Why is Windows NT Server slower than other servers such as FreeBSD? > > Is it because of inefficient programming by Microsoft? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Bingo! ===================================================================== Todd Backman (tbackman@corp.gulf.net) Network Engineering Systems/POP Administration Gulf Coast Internet Company 1-800-444-INET To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 15:09:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21563 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:09:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21546 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:09:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01459; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:08:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199804272208.RAA01459@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Solaris calls Hotmail shots for Microsoft In-Reply-To: <19980427222408.A16053@klemm.gtn.com> from Andreas Klemm at "Apr 27, 98 10:24:08 pm" To: andreas@klemm.gtn.com (Andreas Klemm) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:08:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: nik@iii.co.uk, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andreas Klemm said: > On Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 10:38:13AM +0100, nik@iii.co.uk wrote: > > In a leaked report, sources close to Hotmail said: "... its whole mail > > server infrastructure is Solaris. NT couldn't handle it. On the web > > server, they're running MP Pentiums and Apache on FreeBSD. They're > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > moving to Solaris for threads. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Does that mean we are not performing well enough without doing > more on our threads implementation ? Someone with a good guess ? > It could be that their apps depend on threads, and ours aren't maybe that good yet. They might be wanting kernel threads, and I am 100% on them now. The VM system, SMP, and buffer cache code are beckoning, but I am avoiding their siren call right now. :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 15:15:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22768 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:15:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22629 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:14:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01487; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:14:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199804272214.RAA01487@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? In-Reply-To: from Ben Cohen at "Apr 27, 98 07:35:16 pm" To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:14:35 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ben Cohen said: > > Why is Windows NT Server slower than other servers such as FreeBSD? > I know one reason is that if you page on NT, it doesn't choose pages to page out very well. It also has excessive system call latencies. There is a paper from Harvard or Berkeley (I think) that describes some of the issues, where they compared NetBSD and NT. For many applications, NetBSD and FreeBSD aren't different enough that the conclusions about the relative behavior of NetBSD and NT, would not be the same as FreeBSD and NT. > > Is there anything in the argument that this could be because Windows NT > Server is graphical (it uses the Win95 interface) whereas BSD isn't [need > not be]? > If you run Xwindows on a FreeBSD server, you'll notice only a small decrease in perf (unless you are memory limited.) > > Is it because of inefficient programming by Microsoft? (I've read that > they use basically the same TCP/IP programming as BSD.) > My guess that it is a result of architectural design decisions, and not because of "programming" prowess. I wouldn't have done an OS like NT was done (from what I can see about it's architecture.) That isn't to say that my result would have been better though :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 15:17:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23270 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:17:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23209 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:17:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01500; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:16:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199804272216.RAA01500@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <19980427173211.55066@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Apr 27, 98 05:32:11 pm" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:16:42 -0500 (EST) Cc: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, jack@germanium.xtalwind.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund said: > On Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 03:04:48PM +0100, Ben Cohen wrote: > > >> > Windows 95 is not an OS because it still runs on "top" of DOS, M$ > > >> > doesn't admit, but I would not consider it a technicality. > > >> > > >> Ridiculous! Windows 95 uses only the BIOS/DOS when native code cannot > > >> be used. Even FreeBSD uses the BIOS for certain things, are you saying > > >> that FreeBSD isn't an OS because of that? > > > > Does FreeBSD use the BIOS for anything other than booting up and > > installation? > > No, not at the moment, unless you count APM. > > There has just been added code to allow further use of the BIOS; this > might result in fall-back drivers, allowing you to boot from a > BIOS-supported disk without a FreeBSD-specific driver. > Or restore console state after a crash while running X windows? :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 15:20:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23942 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:20:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23931 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:20:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01509; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:20:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199804272220.RAA01509@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Printing (can't get it right) In-Reply-To: <354439EC.D3CEB2E6@cybertouch.org> from Lanny Baron at "Apr 27, 98 03:55:25 am" To: beef@cybertouch.org (Lanny Baron) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:20:30 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lanny Baron said: > Hi, > > I am wondering if anyone else here besides Mr. Lehey (hi Greg) has > been able to get a printer such as a Canon BJC-4100 to print, legibly. I > have tried with ghostscript (can't figure that either), with postscript > (ditto) and have now pulled about 320 hairs out of my head. > I am using an HP890 deskjet just fine. I am using the alternative HP890 driver, with absolutely no suprises. I wonder what is wrong? I have never used a Canon printer, so I don't know if there might be a driver selection problem of some kind? Is the printer in a wierd, non-volatile mode of some sort? Did you print with another OS, prior to trying to use it on FreeBSD? -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 17:38:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21188 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:38:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20921 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:36:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-176.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.176]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA13157; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:35:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA11332; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:15:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804280015.TAA11332@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , FreeBSD Chat From: David Kelly Subject: Re: IBM marketing (was: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop.) In-reply-to: Message from Greg Lehey of "Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:31:10 +0800." <19980427103110.48503@papillon.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:15:51 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id RAA21070 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > On Fri, 24 April 1998 at 10:44:42 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > Terry Lambert writes: > >> nearly equalled unemulated hardware. IBM is technically competent in > >> most regards (brilliant in some, which is surprising; management tends to > >> fear brilliant things). > > > > Hear hear. They don't, however, have *any* sense of marketing. > > I can't comment on IBM in the US nowadays, but 15 years ago they were > considered the best marketing machine in the world. I agreed. I saw a really good quote today. Appears I'll have to look it up because I can't remember it and the wording really makes it worthwhile. But the gist of it stated "the worst error of modern times is that success is equated with excellence." Suggesting the successful are not necessarily excellent. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 27 21:43:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10304 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:43:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cybertouch.org (cybertouch.org [209.47.145.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10102; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:42:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beef@cybertouch.org) Received: from localhost (beef@localhost) by cybertouch.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA02056; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:41:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from beef@cybertouch.org) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:41:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Lanny Baron To: "John S. Dyson" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printing (can't get it right) In-Reply-To: <199804272220.RAA01509@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > Lanny Baron said: > > Hi, > > > > I am wondering if anyone else here besides Mr. Lehey (hi Greg) has > > been able to get a printer such as a Canon BJC-4100 to print, legibly. I > > have tried with ghostscript (can't figure that either), with postscript > > (ditto) and have now pulled about 320 hairs out of my head. > > > I am using an HP890 deskjet just fine. I am using the alternative > HP890 driver, with absolutely no suprises. I wonder what is wrong? > I have never used a Canon printer, so I don't know if there might > be a driver selection problem of some kind? Is the printer in > a wierd, non-volatile mode of some sort? Did you print with another > OS, prior to trying to use it on FreeBSD? > > -- > John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, > dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, > jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. > Hello John, To answer your question as to whether or not I have used the printer with another OS. Yes. With NT and 95. Using or trying to use the printer with FreeBSD, only prints a a few words, then a few more words, then a few more. If you get the picture. One problem for sure is I don't know if the printer is ghostscript or postscript (or even what those are :-(. I don't blame FreeBSD (the OS or the marvelous minds attached to FreeBSD), I blame myself for the lack of understanding Unix. At least the printer does print. Which says that I have the right com. And forget about asking Canon. They have no idea. So I am kinda stuck. I would love to be able to print from here. Well, thanks for your response John. Hopefully someone has a similar printer and knows where I am going wrong. Regards, Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 01:01:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18327 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:01:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from current.gaffaneys.com (dialup2.gaffaneys.com [208.155.161.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18276 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:01:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zach@gaffaneys.com) Received: (from zach@localhost) by current.gaffaneys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA17638; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:02:27 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from zach) Message-ID: <19980428030226.36517@gaffaneys.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:02:26 -0500 From: Zach Heilig To: Lanny Baron Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printing (can't get it right) References: <199804272220.RAA01509@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Lanny Baron on Tue, Apr 28, 1998 at 12:41:38AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Apr 28, 1998 at 12:41:38AM -0400, Lanny Baron wrote: > To answer your question as to whether or not I have used the printer with > another OS. Yes. With NT and 95. Using or trying to use the printer with > FreeBSD, only prints a a few words, > then a few more words, > then a few more. > > If you get the picture. One problem for sure is I don't know if the > printer is ghostscript or postscript (or even what those are :-(. I don't > blame FreeBSD (the OS or the marvelous minds attached to FreeBSD), I blame > myself for the lack of understanding Unix. You want either an input filter to add CR's, or some method of telling the printer that lines end with only NL, not CR NL. For example, here is my input filter for HP deskjet 890: (if you just want to print postscript files, install the ghostscript package, and check 'gs -?' for a cannon driver that resembles the printer you have). #!/bin/sh # # if-djet890: a filter to print plain files or postscript files # DPI=600 # Change this to your desired initialization string for the printer # mode you want. This does (for HP 800 series): # ESC & k 2 G : CR->CR, LF->CR+LF, FF->CR+FF # ESC & s 0 C : Turn on line wrap. # ESC & l 0 O : Portrait orientation. # ESC & l 2 A : US Letter sized paper. # ESC ( s 0 P : Fixed width characters. # ESC ( s 3 T : Courier typeface. printf "\033&k2G\033&s0C\033&l0O\033&l2A\033(s0P\033(s3T" read first_line first_two_chars=`expr "$first_line" : '\(..\)'` first_six_chars=`expr "$first_line" : '\(......\)'` if [ "$first_two_chars" = "%!" ]; then (echo $first_line && cat && printf "\f") | \ /usr/local/bin/gs -r$DPI -dSAFER -dNOPAUSE -q -sDEVICE=cdj850 \ -sOutputFile=- - && \ exit 0 elif [ "$first_six_chars" = "x T ps" ]; then (echo $first_line && cat && printf "\f") | \ /usr/bin/grops | \ /usr/local/bin/gs -r$DPI -dSAFER -dNOPAUSE -q -sDEVICE=cdj850 \ -sOutputFile=- - && \ exit 0 else (echo $first_line && cat && printf "\f") && \ exit 0 fi exit 2 # END /etc/printcap should look something like: lp:HP DeskJet 890C:\ :sh:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/djet890:\ :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ :lf=/var/log/djet890.log:\ :if=/usr/local/libexec/lp/if-djet890: This will take plain text (perhaps binary files, haven't tried), postscript, and 'zcat /usr/share/man/man5/printcap.5.gz | eqn | tbl | pic | troff -man | lpr' type lines. -- Zach Heilig -- zach@gaffaneys.com Real Programs don't use shared text. Otherwise, how can they use functions for scratch space after they are finished calling them? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 01:11:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA20223 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:11:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA20217; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:11:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA02150; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:10:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199804280810.DAA02150@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Printing (can't get it right) In-Reply-To: from Lanny Baron at "Apr 28, 98 00:41:38 am" To: beef@cybertouch.org (Lanny Baron) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:10:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > If you get the picture. One problem for sure is I don't know if the > printer is ghostscript or postscript (or even what those are :-(. I don't > blame FreeBSD (the OS or the marvelous minds attached to FreeBSD), I blame > myself for the lack of understanding Unix. > Don't worry, our ego's aren't that weak. Criticism is something that helps find problems :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 02:22:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02893 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:22:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ppp6567.on.bellglobal.com (ppp6567.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.159]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02884; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:22:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by ppp6567.on.bellglobal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA02926; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:19:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: ppp6567.on.bellglobal.com: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:19:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@ppp6567.on.bellglobal.com Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Lanny Baron cc: "John S. Dyson" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printing (can't get it right) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Lanny Baron wrote: > To answer your question as to whether or not I have used the printer with > another OS. Yes. With NT and 95. Using or trying to use the printer with > FreeBSD, only prints a a few words, > then a few more words, > then a few more. Oh ya. Mine used to do that, too. :) Read the handbook. Everything is explained in there. In short, I have the lines # put your local stuff here echo Switching printer to polled mode... lptcontrol -p in /etc/rc.local. I use the bjc600 driver from ghostscript. You need either to reconfigure the printer to accept lf as a crlf sequence (probably possible, I don't know how), or check the handbook's "printing" section on using an input filter to do \n -> crlf substitution. Alternatively, use apsfilter (from the ports collection) for everything and you won't need to worry about this. apsfilter doesn't know about the bjc600 driver, don't worry, tell it to use it, anyways. Use it in colour mode --- your canon can convert that to greyscale automatically when the black/white cartridge is used. > If you get the picture. One problem for sure is I don't know if the > printer is ghostscript or postscript (or even what those are :-(. I don't > blame FreeBSD (the OS or the marvelous minds attached to FreeBSD), I blame > myself for the lack of understanding Unix. Lack of understanding your printer, secondarily. That's due to not reading the section in the handbook on printing. (Be warned, that section is long and tiresome and has a lot more info than you need... :-(. Anyways, I refuse to criticize ~200 page manual with their printer. :-) > At least the printer does print. Which says that I have the right com. > And forget about asking Canon. They have no idea. So I am kinda stuck. I > would love to be able to print from here. That's pretty poor on their part. Since they're supposed to know a little bit about their printers, "slow" should immediately scream "poll faster" and does this on newlines should scream "line-termination problem". -- Only two other people have a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 02:30:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA04672 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:30:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA04629 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:29:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id LAA09988; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:29:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:29:42 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: David Kelly Cc: Greg Lehey , Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: IBM marketing (was: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop.) References: <199804280015.TAA11332@nospam.hiwaay.net> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 28 Apr 1998 11:29:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: David Kelly's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:15:51 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly writes: > I saw a really good quote today. Appears I'll have to look it up because > I can't remember it and the wording really makes it worthwhile. But the > gist of it stated "the worst error of modern times is that success is > equated with excellence." Suggesting the successful are not necessarily > excellent. ...and the excellent are not necessarily successful, which is why Bill Gates is the richest man in the world while the FreeBSD project has to beg people for donations. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 03:42:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA16602 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:42:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA16593 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yU7p7-0000Ri-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:41:17 +0200 Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804271724.LAA21025@lariat.lariat.org> from Brett Glass at "Apr 27, 98 11:24:50 am" To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:41:17 +0200 (SAT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc X-URL: http://www.cityip.co.za/~wjv/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Johann Visagie Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > I don't; however, I believe Andrew Schulman, who has documented the ways > in which Windows 95 depends on DOS at great length. Shulman's articles seem to be gone from the O'Reilly site - I looked for them when this thread started... :-( Anyone know their whereabouts? They described the rather complex inter-relationship between DOS and Win95 in more detail. -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 07:09:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28398 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:09:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA28392 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:09:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03927; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:07:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804281407.IAA03927@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:07:13 -0600 To: Johann Visagie From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199804271724.LAA21025@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org O'Reilly doesn't publish the text of all of its books online. But you can see some chapters at the DDJ site, and the rest if you look at the book in a bookstore.... --Brett At 12:41 PM 4/28/98 +0200, Johann Visagie wrote: >Brett Glass wrote: >> >> I don't; however, I believe Andrew Schulman, who has documented the ways >> in which Windows 95 depends on DOS at great length. > >Shulman's articles seem to be gone from the O'Reilly site - I looked for them >when this thread started... :-( > >Anyone know their whereabouts? > >They described the rather complex inter-relationship between DOS and Win95 in >more detail. > >-- V > >Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 07:37:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03747 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:37:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sun-test.hightek.com ([194.74.141.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA03680 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:36:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm2.hightek.com) Received: from klemm2.hightek.com ([195.90.203.76]) by sun-test.hightek.com (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with ESMTP id AAA15549; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:36:50 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm2.hightek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27759; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:36:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980428163645.12712@hightek.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:36:45 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Todd Backman , Ben Cohen Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Todd Backman on Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 04:37:10PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 04:37:10PM -0500, Todd Backman wrote: > On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Ben Cohen wrote: > > > Why is Windows NT Server slower than other servers such as FreeBSD? > > > > Is it because of inefficient programming by Microsoft? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Bingo! ^^^^^ Where do you know that ? Maybe it's just the C compiler ? Remember good old Xenix and SCO Unix times, do you remember the Microsoft C compiler reporting: "internal compiler spill, expression to complicated, please simplify !" -- B&K Gruppe - Wuppertal phone +49 202 7399 - 170 fax +49 202 7399 - 100 http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 07:43:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04733 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:43:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA04563 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:42:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yUBaD-0000dr-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:42:09 +0200 Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804281407.IAA03927@lariat.lariat.org> from Brett Glass at "Apr 28, 98 08:07:13 am" To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:42:09 +0200 (SAT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc X-URL: http://www.cityip.co.za/~wjv/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Johann Visagie Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > O'Reilly doesn't publish the text of all of its books online. But > you can see some chapters at the DDJ site, and the rest if you > look at the book in a bookstore.... There used to be a set of articles by Schulman entitled "Windows 95: What it is, what it isn't, and why it matters" somewhere on ORA. That was when they had only just decided to publish a series of books on Windows. The articles were quite enlightening, if not overly technical. I wasn't even aware that this information had found its way into a published book, though it doesn't surprise me... -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 09:59:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06365 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:59:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06349; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:59:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id SAA25633; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:58:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:58:58 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? References: <199804272214.RAA01487@dyson.iquest.net> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 28 Apr 1998 18:58:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: "John S. Dyson"'s message of "Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:14:35 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "John S. Dyson" writes: > was done (from what I can see about it's architecture.) That isn't to ^^^^ Now, John, didn't we learn *anything* from the recent discussion about the "its" vs. "it's" patch to the kernel source? ;) -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 11:10:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20902 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:10:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20827; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00523; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:10:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199804281810.NAA00523@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? In-Reply-To: from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= at "Apr 28, 98 06:58:58 pm" To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:10:04 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav said: > "John S. Dyson" writes: > > was done (from what I can see about it's architecture.) That isn't to > ^^^^ > Now, John, didn't we learn *anything* from the recent discussion about > the "its" vs. "it's" patch to the kernel source? ;) > Just because I write code, doesn't mean that I can write English :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 11:54:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01616 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:54:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01598 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:54:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id UAA06540; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:45:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00432; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:33:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980428203326.A415@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:33:26 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Lanny Baron , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printing (can't get it right) References: <354439EC.D3CEB2E6@cybertouch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <354439EC.D3CEB2E6@cybertouch.org>; from Lanny Baron on Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 03:55:25AM -0400 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 03:55:25AM -0400, Lanny Baron wrote: > Hi, > > I am wondering if anyone else here besides Mr. Lehey (hi Greg) has > been able to get a printer such as a Canon BJC-4100 to print, legibly. I > have tried with ghostscript (can't figure that either), with postscript > (ditto) and have now pulled about 320 hairs out of my head. Use the apsfilter port in the FreeBSD ports collection. Or try my new apsfilter beta from my homepage, see below in sig. The new setup would help you better finding a suitable driver. -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 13:38:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28274 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:38:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mph124.rh.psu.edu (mph@MPH124.rh.psu.edu [128.118.126.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28257; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:38:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@mph124.rh.psu.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by mph124.rh.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03263; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:38:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980428163819.A29948@rh.psu.edu> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:38:19 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? Mail-Followup-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199804281810.NAA00523@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199804281810.NAA00523@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Tue, Apr 28, 1998 at 01:10:04PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Apr 28, 1998 at 01:10:04PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Just because I write code, doesn't mean that I can write English :-). I have an idea for training John. When he makes an error in his prose, we report back the file and line number of the error with a terse explanation that probably has nothing to do with the real problem. If the error is due to punctuation, don't report it until the next line. We follow it with several more ficticious errors that will go away when the real error is corrected. We end with: Stop -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://mph124.rh.psu.edu/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 15:34:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26666 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:34:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (root@jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26656 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:34:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul1.u.washington.edu (root@saul1.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.10]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id PAA26368; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:34:17 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id PAA30915; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:33:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: Matthew Hunt cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? In-Reply-To: <19980428163819.A29948@rh.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Matthew Hunt wrote: >On Tue, Apr 28, 1998 at 01:10:04PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > >> Just because I write code, doesn't mean that I can write English :-). > >I have an idea for training John. When he makes an error in his >prose, we report back the file and line number of the error with >a terse explanation that probably has nothing to do with the real >problem. If the error is due to punctuation, don't report it until >the next line. > >We follow it with several more ficticious errors that will go away >when the real error is corrected. This was hilarious. Thank you, | Try some of this. It will show you where you're at. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 28 20:10:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23135 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:10:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23031 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:10:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-57.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.57]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA54324; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:10:15 GMT Message-ID: <35469989.F2CD50DA@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:07:53 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Hunt , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? References: <199804281810.NAA00523@dyson.iquest.net> <19980428163819.A29948@rh.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Hunt wrote: > I have an idea for training John. When he makes an error in his > prose, we report back the file and line number of the error with > a terse explanation that probably has nothing to do with the real > problem. If the error is due to punctuation, don't report it until > the next line. > > We follow it with several more ficticious errors that will go away > when the real error is corrected. Sounds like MS debugging procedures: "reinstall until the problem or your life goes away! Send us more money between each try!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 10:43:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21480 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:43:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21449 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:43:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22012; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804291743.LAA22012@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:42:46 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Correction for Caldera article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In an article at http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/daily/980427h.html Will Rodger (rodger@worldnet.att.net) states: "Linux was the only operating system not owned by Microsoft that gained market share in 1997." This is obviously incorrect, since in fact FreeBSD has -- at least percentagewise -- been gaining market share FASTER than Linux. Members of this list should ask Will to correct his article by adding a mention of FreeBSD. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 12:23:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08507 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:23:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08496 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:23:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23201; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804291923.NAA23201@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org Disposition-Notification-To: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:22:55 -0600 To: jmccormi@zd.com From: Brett Glass Subject: Serious error in article Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Your article at http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/daily/980427h.html contains a very serious error. It says: "Linux was the only operating system not owned by Microsoft that gained market share in 1997." This is incorrect. FreeBSD, another collaboratively developed free operating system, has actually been gaining market share faster than Linux! FreeBSD, unlike Linux, allows commercial as well as non-commercial spinoffs and is known for its more robust networking, more organized development process, and more careful testing prior to release. Please correct the article to include FreeBSD as another alternative operating system that's gaining market share. Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 12:54:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13936 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:54:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13886 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:54:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23676; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804291954.NAA23676@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:54:02 -0600 To: "Frank Pawlak" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article In-Reply-To: <199804291449510912.00C854F4@mailgate.execpc.com> References: <199804291743.LAA22012@lariat.lariat.org> <199804291743.LAA22012@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Walnut Creek CD-ROM sells both FreeBSD and Linux. As documented in earlier messages on this mailing list, sales of FreeBSD are increasing while sales of Linux are nearly flat. --Brett At 02:49 PM 4/29/98 -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: >Brett, > >Where is it documented that FreeBSD is growing faster than Linux? I'm not debating you on this issue, but it would be good to see numbers that are somewhat more firm than jello. > >Frank > > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 4/29/98, at 2:18 PM, Brett Glass wrote: > >>In an article at >> >>http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/daily/980427h.html >> >>Will Rodger (rodger@worldnet.att.net) states: >> >>"Linux was the only operating system not owned by Microsoft >>that gained market share in 1997." >> >>This is obviously incorrect, since in fact FreeBSD has -- >>at least percentagewise -- been gaining market share >>FASTER than Linux. >> >>Members of this list should ask Will to correct his article by >>adding a mention of FreeBSD. >> >>--Brett >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 13:22:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20539 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:22:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20513 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA27976; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:17:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Don Wilde cc: Matthew Hunt , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? In-Reply-To: <35469989.F2CD50DA@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Don Wilde wrote: > Sounds like MS debugging procedures: "reinstall until the problem or > your life goes away! Send us more money between each try!" A recent article (this month's The Economist, fwiw) tried to compare Gillette launching a new version of its razor (the much-vamped Mach3) with MS's constant product revisions... It was disappointing that, while the article accurately identified MS constant upgrades annoying consumers, it totally failed to grasp *why* (since the article's comparison doesn't fit in its context)... :-( -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 13:51:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25615 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:51:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25594 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:51:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00954; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:50:09 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3547927A.8686C694@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:50:03 +0300 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Organization: GlavAPU X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass CC: jmccormi@zd.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serious error in article References: <199804291923.NAA23201@lariat.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > Your article at > > http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/daily/980427h.html > > contains a very serious error. It says: > > "Linux was the only operating system not owned by Microsoft > that gained market share in 1997." > > This is incorrect. FreeBSD, another collaboratively developed > free operating system, has actually been gaining market share > faster than Linux! FreeBSD, unlike Linux, allows commercial > as well as non-commercial spinoffs and is known for its more > robust networking, more organized development process, and > more careful testing prior to release. > > Please correct the article to include FreeBSD as another > alternative operating system that's gaining market share. > How about OpenBSD and NetBSD ? > Brett Glass > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 14:50:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10123 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:50:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09992 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:50:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@dialB0b.aei.ca [206.123.6.95]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25293; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:50:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3547A07E.4307EAF@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:49:50 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass CC: Frank Pawlak , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article References: <199804291743.LAA22012@lariat.lariat.org> <199804291743.LAA22012@lariat.lariat.org> <199804291954.NAA23676@lariat.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, maybe Linux Slackware sales are flat, go see Caldera and RedHat: They will not reply that! Malartre Brett Glass wrote: > Walnut Creek CD-ROM sells both FreeBSD and Linux. As documented in > earlier messages on this mailing list, sales of FreeBSD are increasing > while sales of Linux are nearly flat. > > --Brett > > At 02:49 PM 4/29/98 -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > >Brett, > > > >Where is it documented that FreeBSD is growing faster than Linux? I'm not > debating you on this issue, but it would be good to see numbers that are > somewhat more firm than jello. > > > >Frank > > > > > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > > >On 4/29/98, at 2:18 PM, Brett Glass wrote: > > > >>In an article at > >> > >>http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/daily/980427h.html > >> > >>Will Rodger (rodger@worldnet.att.net) states: > >> > >>"Linux was the only operating system not owned by Microsoft > >>that gained market share in 1997." > >> > >>This is obviously incorrect, since in fact FreeBSD has -- > >>at least percentagewise -- been gaining market share > >>FASTER than Linux. > >> > >>Members of this list should ask Will to correct his article by > >>adding a mention of FreeBSD. > >> > >>--Brett > >> > >> > >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 16:27:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03907 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:27:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03711 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:26:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from EXIT10 (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.97]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA07441; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:26:14 -0400 (EDT) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:28:32 GMT Message-ID: <354bb6cb.180295152@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199804291743.LAA22012@lariat.lariat.org> <199804291743.LAA22012@lariat.lariat.org> <199804291954.NAA23676@lariat.lariat.org> In-Reply-To: <199804291954.NAA23676@lariat.lariat.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id QAA03720 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:54:02 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >Walnut Creek CD-ROM sells both FreeBSD and Linux. As documented in >earlier messages on this mailing list, sales of FreeBSD are increasing >while sales of Linux are nearly flat. Only at Walnut Creek, because they sell Slackware which fewer buyers nowdays are interested in. I have not seen or heard any real evidence that Linux sales are flat, except for the testimony of a few FreeBSD boosters. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 17:22:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14783 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:22:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14635 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:21:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26926; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:20:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804300020.SAA26926@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:20:46 -0600 To: Malartre From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article Cc: Frank Pawlak , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3547A07E.4307EAF@aei.ca> References: <199804291743.LAA22012@lariat.lariat.org> <199804291743.LAA22012@lariat.lariat.org> <199804291954.NAA23676@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, even if that were so, FreeBSD would *still* be gaining market share, so the statement in the article would still be incorrect! --Brett At 05:49 PM 4/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >Well, maybe Linux Slackware sales are flat, go see Caldera and RedHat: They >will not reply that! > >Malartre > >Brett Glass wrote: > >> Walnut Creek CD-ROM sells both FreeBSD and Linux. As documented in >> earlier messages on this mailing list, sales of FreeBSD are increasing >> while sales of Linux are nearly flat. >> >> --Brett >> >> At 02:49 PM 4/29/98 -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: >> >> >Brett, >> > >> >Where is it documented that FreeBSD is growing faster than Linux? I'm not >> debating you on this issue, but it would be good to see numbers that are >> somewhat more firm than jello. >> > >> >Frank >> > >> > >> >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> > >> >On 4/29/98, at 2:18 PM, Brett Glass wrote: >> > >> >>In an article at >> >> >> >>http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/daily/980427h.html >> >> >> >>Will Rodger (rodger@worldnet.att.net) states: >> >> >> >>"Linux was the only operating system not owned by Microsoft >> >>that gained market share in 1997." >> >> >> >>This is obviously incorrect, since in fact FreeBSD has -- >> >>at least percentagewise -- been gaining market share >> >>FASTER than Linux. >> >> >> >>Members of this list should ask Will to correct his article by >> >>adding a mention of FreeBSD. >> >> >> >>--Brett >> >> >> >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >> > >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > >-- >-------------------------------------------------- >malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 >www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project >Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 >-------------------------------------------------- > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 17:50:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19871 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:50:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19699 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:49:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01631; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:49:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804300049.TAA01631@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article In-Reply-To: <354bb6cb.180295152@mail.cetlink.net> from John Kelly at "Apr 29, 98 11:28:32 pm" To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:49:40 -0500 (EST) Cc: brett@lariat.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:54:02 -0600, Brett Glass > wrote: > > >Walnut Creek CD-ROM sells both FreeBSD and Linux. As documented in > >earlier messages on this mailing list, sales of FreeBSD are increasing > >while sales of Linux are nearly flat. > > Only at Walnut Creek, because they sell Slackware which fewer buyers > nowdays are interested in. I have not seen or heard any real evidence > that Linux sales are flat, except for the testimony of a few FreeBSD > boosters. > The only way that Linux's sales are flat, is by the 1st derivative. We are suggesting that the 2nd derivative is smaller. Their market WILL commercially saturate, due to the (relative) inapplicability of the license. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 18:11:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23212 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:11:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23182 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:10:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.48]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA1986; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:13:39 +0500 Message-ID: <3547CF5C.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:09:48 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Kelly CC: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article References: <199804291743.LAA22012@lariat.lariat.org> <199804291743.LAA22012@lariat.lariat.org> <199804291954.NAA23676@lariat.lariat.org> <354bb6cb.180295152@mail.cetlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Once again: the original claim, based on something Linus said, is that (all) Linux is growing linearly (no one said "nearly-flat") while FreeBSD still grows exponentially. It's also a fact that FreeBSD is now more popular than Slackware Linux. The rest is mere speculation...(hopefully WC will now focus on more FreeBSD related products? ;-). Pedro. John Kelly wrote: > > On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:54:02 -0600, Brett Glass > wrote: > > >Walnut Creek CD-ROM sells both FreeBSD and Linux. As documented in > >earlier messages on this mailing list, sales of FreeBSD are increasing > >while sales of Linux are nearly flat. > > Only at Walnut Creek, because they sell Slackware which fewer buyers > nowdays are interested in. I have not seen or heard any real evidence > that Linux sales are flat, except for the testimony of a few FreeBSD > boosters. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 19:01:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03950 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:01:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cybertouch.org (cybertouch.org [209.47.145.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03755; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:01:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beef@cybertouch.org) Received: from localhost (beef@localhost) by cybertouch.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA01365; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:59:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from beef@cybertouch.org) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:59:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Lanny Baron To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Printing...but thanks Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just a note of thanks to all of you who sent me mail to help me set up my printer. I am trying but without much luck :-( Most important is the fact that many of you took the time to mail me with help. Thank you all, Lanny Baron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 20:35:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20280 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:35:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA20274 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:35:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11287; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804300335.UAA11287@implode.root.com> To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua cc: jmccormi@zd.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serious error in article In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:50:03 +0300." <3547927A.8686C694@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:35:17 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> Please correct the article to include FreeBSD as another >> alternative operating system that's gaining market share. >> > >How about OpenBSD and NetBSD ? I'd say that it isn't altogether clear that they are gaining market share, at least not significantly. For FreeBSD, I can point to CDROM sales and FTP download totals. In those cases, FreeBSD growth is not only increasing, but is growing exponentially year-to-year, with an estimated installed base now at more than 1/2 million. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 23:11:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14284 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:11:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14266 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:11:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13168; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804300611.XAA13168@implode.root.com> To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:28:32 GMT." <354bb6cb.180295152@mail.cetlink.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:11:32 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:54:02 -0600, Brett Glass >wrote: > >>Walnut Creek CD-ROM sells both FreeBSD and Linux. As documented in >>earlier messages on this mailing list, sales of FreeBSD are increasing >>while sales of Linux are nearly flat. > >Only at Walnut Creek, because they sell Slackware which fewer buyers >nowdays are interested in. I have not seen or heard any real evidence >that Linux sales are flat, except for the testimony of a few FreeBSD >boosters. Who said that Linux sales were flat? I certainly didn't. I said that Slackware sales _growth_ was linear rather than exponential. Based on comments from Linus, sales _growth_ has declined for Linux in general. ...but let me say again one more time: Linux is still growing and at a reasonable pace, just not exponential like it used to be. This is not my opinion, but what the people who should know have said in the recent past. Quite honestly, it doesn't bother me at all if Linux growth was fast and furious. In fact, I'd be _worried_ if it declined to 0 growth (or worse, lose market share), since this would indicate that the size of the "unix" market is limited and relatively small, and would mean that Microsoft has won. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 29 23:32:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16889 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:32:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wumpus.its.uow.edu.au (wumpus.its.uow.edu.au [130.130.68.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16854 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:32:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@uow.edu.au) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by wumpus.its.uow.edu.au (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id QAA12078; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:29:04 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:29:04 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: John Kelly , Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article In-Reply-To: <3547CF5C.41C67EA6@asme.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does anyone have any figures for this? It's nice to say to raving linux fanatics (and friends) but they'll tear you to shreds unless you have something to back it up. Nick -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au | http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~nick Nicholas Brawn - Computer Science Undergraduate, University of Wollongong. On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > Once again: the original claim, based on something Linus said, is that > (all) Linux is growing linearly (no one said "nearly-flat") while > FreeBSD still grows exponentially. > > It's also a fact that FreeBSD is now more popular than Slackware Linux. > The rest is mere speculation...(hopefully WC will now focus on more > FreeBSD related products? ;-). > > Pedro. > > John Kelly wrote: > > > > On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:54:02 -0600, Brett Glass > > wrote: > > > > >Walnut Creek CD-ROM sells both FreeBSD and Linux. As documented in > > >earlier messages on this mailing list, sales of FreeBSD are increasing > > >while sales of Linux are nearly flat. > > > > Only at Walnut Creek, because they sell Slackware which fewer buyers > > nowdays are interested in. I have not seen or heard any real evidence > > that Linux sales are flat, except for the testimony of a few FreeBSD > > boosters. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 30 03:48:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA17940 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:48:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA17934 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:48:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA03580; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:48:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804301048.EAA03580@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:48:08 -0600 To: dg@root.com, jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804300611.XAA13168@implode.root.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David: You have a point. But nonetheless, I think you'll agree that the statement "Linux was the only operating system not owned by Microsoft that gained market share in 1997" is incorrect. This is what should be made clear to the author. I've given him Jordan's address, but input from you as well would help.... --Brett At 11:11 PM 4/29/98 -0700, David Greenman wrote: > Who said that Linux sales were flat? I certainly didn't. I said that >Slackware sales _growth_ was linear rather than exponential. Based on >comments from Linus, sales _growth_ has declined for Linux in general. >...but let me say again one more time: Linux is still growing and at >a reasonable pace, just not exponential like it used to be. This is not >my opinion, but what the people who should know have said in the recent >past. > Quite honestly, it doesn't bother me at all if Linux growth was fast >and furious. In fact, I'd be _worried_ if it declined to 0 growth (or worse, >lose market share), since this would indicate that the size of the "unix" >market is limited and relatively small, and would mean that Microsoft >has won. > >-DG > >David Greenman >Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 30 04:05:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20726 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:05:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA20703 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:05:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id NAA05487; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:05:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:05:15 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com Cc: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly), chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article References: <199804300611.XAA13168@implode.root.com> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 30 Apr 1998 13:05:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: David Greenman's message of "Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:11:32 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Greenman writes: > Quite honestly, it doesn't bother me at all if Linux growth was fast > and furious. In fact, I'd be _worried_ if it declined to 0 growth (or worse, > lose market share), since this would indicate that the size of the "unix" > market is limited and relatively small, and would mean that Microsoft > has won. You don't seem to take into account the situation where Linux would be losing market shares... to FreeBSD. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 30 04:23:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24164 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:23:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA23927 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:21:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA18862; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804301120.EAA18862@implode.root.com> To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) cc: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly), chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article In-reply-to: Your message of "30 Apr 1998 13:05:11 +0200." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:20:47 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >David Greenman writes: >> Quite honestly, it doesn't bother me at all if Linux growth was fast >> and furious. In fact, I'd be _worried_ if it declined to 0 growth (or worse, >> lose market share), since this would indicate that the size of the "unix" >> market is limited and relatively small, and would mean that Microsoft >> has won. > >You don't seem to take into account the situation where Linux would be >losing market shares... to FreeBSD. This is true...but I'll be happy as long as FreeBSD's growth continues to be exponential. :-) This obviously can't continue forever, but I think we have a few years yet before growth will start slowing down - especially if the freebsd-advocates get busy. :-) -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 30 05:24:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01833 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:24:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01824 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:24:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (root@firix [10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id OAA29377 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:23:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (pc8811.gud.siemens.co.at [195.3.22.159]) by pc8811.gud.siemens.at (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28717 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:24:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199804301120.EAA18862@implode.root.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:24:31 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Siemens Austria AG From: Marino Ladavac To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Correction for Caldera article Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > This is true...but I'll be happy as long as FreeBSD's growth continues to > be exponential. :-) This obviously can't continue forever ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What? The next thing you are going to say is that the pyramid schemes are actually scams. /Marino P.S. :) for brain free ---------------------------------- Marino Ladavac Date: 30-Apr-98 Time: 14:11:32 ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 30 07:56:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20458 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:56:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA20427 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:56:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-63.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.63]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA78898; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:56:34 GMT Message-ID: <35488CF2.68C97629@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:38:42 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Vanderhoek CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I really like Nicholas Petreley's new slant. Visit his http://www.ncworldmag.com articles (last month and this). He uses Linux, so he tries to put out the LKM's in Linux as a Good Thing for servers -- not considering that you have to turn off the machine to install the hardware -- but it's very kind to FreeBSD. He's learning! More and more, we're getting heard from! :))) --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 30 12:31:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04085 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:31:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mph124.rh.psu.edu (mph@MPH124.rh.psu.edu [128.118.126.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04041; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:30:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@mph124.rh.psu.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by mph124.rh.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28926; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:30:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980430153022.A28886@mph124.rh.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:30:22 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Alex Nash , Warner Losh Cc: Mike Smith , Julian Elischer , John Birrell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc_r/sys uthread_error.c Makefile.inc __error.c References: <199804301846.MAA01333@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Alex Nash on Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 02:27:31PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 02:27:31PM -0500, Alex Nash wrote: > I think John is working on Alpha Bits. Yeah, but it was buggy. I am waiting for Beta Bits before trying it again. -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://mph124.rh.psu.edu/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 30 13:42:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17679 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:42:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uop.cs.uop.edu (uop.cs.uop.edu [138.9.200.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17609 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:41:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bford@uop.cs.uop.edu) Received: from heather (ppp-206-171-161-81.sktn01.pacbell.net [206.171.161.81]) by uop.cs.uop.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA02530 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000701bd7478$639441c0$0100a8c0@heather.my.domain> From: "Bret Ford" To: Subject: Mozilla CVS Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:41:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mozilla.org's CVS archive appears to be up. :pserver:anonymous@cvs1.mozilla.org:/cvsroot Bret Ford To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 30 16:00:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07429 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:00:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07419 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:00:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA18919; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:00:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:00:10 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Don Wilde cc: Tim Vanderhoek , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? In-Reply-To: <35488CF2.68C97629@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Don Wilde wrote: > I really like Nicholas Petreley's new slant. Visit his > http://www.ncworldmag.com articles (last month and this). He uses Linux, > so he tries to put out the LKM's in Linux as a Good Thing for servers -- > not considering that you have to turn off the machine to install the > hardware -- but it's very kind to FreeBSD. He's learning! What're you talking about? PCI's hotswappable... kinda... It's worked at least 50% of the time for me... > More and more, we're getting heard from! :))) > > --> Don *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 30 18:19:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27244 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:19:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27133 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:18:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-46.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.46]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA70528; Fri, 1 May 1998 01:18:46 GMT Message-ID: <3549225B.EEF1B263@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:16:11 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org No sh**! I hope your boss doesn't hear about this! What happened the other 50%??? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 30 18:21:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27843 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:21:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27810 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:21:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24854; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:21:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:21:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Don Wilde cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? In-Reply-To: <3549225B.EEF1B263@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Don Wilde wrote: > > > No sh**! I hope your boss doesn't hear about this! What happened the > other 50%??? Ya know, even if a PCI card DOESN'T work, it still looks impressive sitting in a computer.... Besides, haven't you even needed something to keep your kitchen table from wobbling, and ran out of 5.25" floppies? *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 30 22:37:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01070 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:37:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00988 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-102.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.102]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA100776; Fri, 1 May 1998 05:36:22 GMT Message-ID: <35495EE7.5DF79488@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:34:31 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > wobbling, and ran out of 5.25" floppies? That's what Win95 CD's, AOL and IE demo disks are for? Our company is such a factory, I've got piles of old motherboards around. I don't need to provoke it by hot-swapping cards, though I will say I've done it by mistake once or thrice... ~8-} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 1 08:17:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27564 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 08:17:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from SNYBUFAA.BUFFALOSTATE.EDU (SYSTEM@snybufaa.buffalostate.edu [136.183.34.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27556 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 08:17:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from HUMMDN36@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU) Received: from BUFFALOSTATE.EDU by BUFFALOSTATE.EDU (PMDF V5.1-5 #18385) id <01IWIMTALWTW9OD19W@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 May 1998 11:18:15 EST Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 11:18:15 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Hummel Subject: Doing presentation on BSD, any suggestions? To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <01IWIMTALXRQ9OD19W@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU> X-VMS-To: in%"freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I have to do a presentation in my systems analysis class, and I am planning to do a presentation on BSD. The audience: Systems Analysis type (as opposed to hackers), who know very little about UNIX, except for how to write a few shell scripts. (As this was the emphasis of their intro to UNIX). Because the class is systems analysis, and because I only have 20 minutes I will probably only spend about about 5 minutes on stability and use as a networking powerhouse. I plan to include an introduction to X, which I know for a fact nobody knows anything about, and am considering the following: - Use of *BSD as basis for new operating systems (Rhapsody) - Use of *BSD in artificial intelligence - Use of *BSD in industry --> I plan to concentrate on areas other than Internet servers, but if someone can throw me a few more names like Yahoo! and Walnut Creek, I would do a blurb about them. - Use of *BSD in serious research areas. I guess this would be engineering and science. I'm sure I can find some information on the net, but tapping into the excellent BSD brain-pool is too tempting. This presentation may spark a bit of interest in BSD (although my audience is only about 25 ppl), so if you can toss me a URL or two, I'd appreciate it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 1 10:07:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12909 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 10:07:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12873 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 10:07:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22981; Fri, 1 May 1998 11:07:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199805011707.LAA22981@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 11:07:21 -0600 To: Dave Hummel , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Doing presentation on BSD, any suggestions? In-Reply-To: <01IWIMTALXRQ9OD19W@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You might want to mention FreeBSD as a basis for the OSKit; see http://www.cs.utah.edu/projects/flux/oskit/ --Brett Glass At 11:18 AM 5/1/98 -0500, Dave Hummel wrote: >Hi all, > >I have to do a presentation in my systems analysis class, and I am planning >to do a presentation on BSD. > >The audience: Systems Analysis type (as opposed to hackers), who know very > little about UNIX, except for how to write a few shell scripts. > (As this was the emphasis of their intro to UNIX). > >Because the class is systems analysis, and because I only have 20 minutes >I will probably only spend about about 5 minutes on stability and use as >a networking powerhouse. I plan to include an introduction to X, which I >know for a fact nobody knows anything about, and am considering the following: > >- Use of *BSD as basis for new operating systems (Rhapsody) >- Use of *BSD in artificial intelligence >- Use of *BSD in industry --> I plan to concentrate on areas other than > Internet servers, but if someone can throw > me a few more names like Yahoo! and Walnut Creek, > I would do a blurb about them. >- Use of *BSD in serious research areas. I guess this would be engineering and > science. > >I'm sure I can find some information on the net, but tapping into the excellent >BSD brain-pool is too tempting. This presentation may spark a bit of interest >in BSD (although my audience is only about 25 ppl), so if you can toss me a >URL or two, I'd appreciate it. > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 1 14:21:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23840 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 14:21:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23641 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 14:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA06258; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:19:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao X-Sender: taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca To: FREEBSD-CHAT Subject: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anyone else getting odd responses to a simple "ls" today using ncftp? > ls -CF: No such file or directory. But if I use /usr/bin/ftp, "ls" and "ls -CF" both work. Also, why is 2.1.7.1 back in /pub/FreeBSD? :) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 1 16:08:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10924 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 16:08:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cybertouch.org (cybertouch.org [209.47.145.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10739 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 16:06:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beef@cybertouch.org) Received: from localhost (beef@localhost) by cybertouch.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA06534; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:06:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from beef@cybertouch.org) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:06:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Lanny Baron To: Brian Tao cc: FREEBSD-CHAT Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 1 May 1998, Brian Tao wrote: > Anyone else getting odd responses to a simple "ls" today using > ncftp? > > > ls > -CF: No such file or directory. > > > But if I use /usr/bin/ftp, "ls" and "ls -CF" both work. Also, why > is 2.1.7.1 back in /pub/FreeBSD? :) > -- > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > Just tried with ncftp2 and same thing .... ls says no file or directory.Tried going to other dir's I know of, and same thing occurs with ls. Take care, * Lanny Baron * | Have you had your BEEF today? | | http://www.tht.net/~beef | | * | Want a great operating system? | | try FreeBSD, it's remarkable! | * http://www.FreeBSD.org * &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 1 16:39:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16325 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 16:39:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cybertouch.org (cybertouch.org [209.47.145.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16283 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 16:38:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beef@cybertouch.org) Received: from localhost (beef@localhost) by cybertouch.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA06566 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:38:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from beef@cybertouch.org) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:38:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Lanny Baron To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: font size with rxvt Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Is there a way to change the font size for rxvt? I use xfontsel for xterm which works well. If someone knows how to change the fonts please let me know. Thanks, * Lanny Baron * | Have you had your BEEF today? | | http://www.tht.net/~beef | | * | Want a great operating system? | | try FreeBSD, it's remarkable! | * http://www.FreeBSD.org * &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 1 17:05:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22515 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22479 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:05:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11991; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805020004.RAA11991@implode.root.com> To: Lanny Baron cc: Brian Tao , FREEBSD-CHAT Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 May 1998 19:06:24 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 17:04:06 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >On Fri, 1 May 1998, Brian Tao wrote: > >> Anyone else getting odd responses to a simple "ls" today using >> ncftp? >> >> > ls >> -CF: No such file or directory. The ftpd running on wcarchive will ignore both of those options, but I don't know why the behavior would be different with ncftp - I'll have to investigate. The ftpd server was changed last night to a newer version of mine that has integrated LIST support and other speedups. The integrated LIST command will accept all standard "ls" options, but will only actually do something with a much smaller set. -C would be the default in any case, and -F will be ignored. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 1 17:11:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23884 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:11:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23801 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:11:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12061 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805020010.RAA12061@implode.root.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 17:10:32 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I said: >a much smaller set. -C would be the default in any case, and -F will be >ignored. Oops, actually -C is not the default of course and it will also be ignored. I now know why the problem is occuring with ncftp and it has to do with it not conforming to the RFC regarding the NLST command. I don't think I'm going to work around that. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 1 18:13:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02098 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:13:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (andrew@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02093 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:13:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@python.shoal.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA26461; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:13:15 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 11:13:15 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: Dave Hummel cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Doing presentation on BSD, any suggestions? In-Reply-To: <01IWIMTALXRQ9OD19W@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org for a bit of an overview for X window managers have a look at http://www.PLiG.org/xwinman Andrew Perry > > I have to do a presentation in my systems analysis class, and I am planning > to do a presentation on BSD. > > The audience: Systems Analysis type (as opposed to hackers), who know very > little about UNIX, except for how to write a few shell scripts. > (As this was the emphasis of their intro to UNIX). > > Because the class is systems analysis, and because I only have 20 minutes > I will probably only spend about about 5 minutes on stability and use as > a networking powerhouse. I plan to include an introduction to X, which I > know for a fact nobody knows anything about, and am considering the following: > > - Use of *BSD as basis for new operating systems (Rhapsody) > - Use of *BSD in artificial intelligence > - Use of *BSD in industry --> I plan to concentrate on areas other than > Internet servers, but if someone can throw > me a few more names like Yahoo! and Walnut Creek, > I would do a blurb about them. > - Use of *BSD in serious research areas. I guess this would be engineering and > science. > > I'm sure I can find some information on the net, but tapping into the excellent > BSD brain-pool is too tempting. This presentation may spark a bit of interest > in BSD (although my audience is only about 25 ppl), so if you can toss me a > URL or two, I'd appreciate it. > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 1 18:56:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08945 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:56:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08788 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:56:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-210.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.210]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA37330 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 01:55:55 GMT Message-ID: <354A789A.B1C59085@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:36:26 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: slogans Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Our computers work... ... they run FreeBSD! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 03:25:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01114 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 03:25:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA01098 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 03:25:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hridil.ifi.uio.no (2602@hridil.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.48]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id LAA08574; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:19:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hridil.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:19:33 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Lanny Baron Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: font size with rxvt References: Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 02 May 1998 11:19:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: Lanny Baron's message of "Fri, 1 May 1998 19:38:34 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lanny Baron writes: > Is there a way to change the font size for rxvt? I use xfontsel for xterm > which works well. If someone knows how to change the fonts please let me > know. You might want to try reading the rxvt manual ('man rxvt'), which will certainly list the command line options and X resource settings rxvt accepts. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 04:10:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07712 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 04:10:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA07702 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 04:10:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id NAA00231; Sat, 2 May 1998 13:00:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11265; Sat, 2 May 1998 12:45:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980502124550.A4951@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:45:50 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: dwilde1@ibm.net, Tim Vanderhoek Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Win NT slower than others? References: <35488CF2.68C97629@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <35488CF2.68C97629@ibm.net>; from Don Wilde on Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 07:38:42AM -0700 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 07:38:42AM -0700, Don Wilde wrote: > I really like Nicholas Petreley's new slant. Visit his > http://www.ncworldmag.com articles (last month and this). He uses Linux, > so he tries to put out the LKM's in Linux as a Good Thing for servers -- > not considering that you have to turn off the machine to install the > hardware -- but it's very kind to FreeBSD. He's learning! > > More and more, we're getting heard from! :))) Enjoy my Unix promotion corner in my home page ... At the end of the collection I'll write all these authors an e-mail to say thanks for Unix promotion. And I'll ask them, if they could evaluate FreeBSD 2.2.6 next time ... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 05:18:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14013 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 05:18:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA13996 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 05:18:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19786; Sat, 2 May 1998 12:18:13 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA08443; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:17:58 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980502141757.54394@follo.net> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:17:57 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: dg@root.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? References: <199805020010.RAA12061@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199805020010.RAA12061@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Fri, May 01, 1998 at 05:10:32PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 05:10:32PM -0700, David Greenman wrote: > I said: > > >a much smaller set. -C would be the default in any case, and -F will be > >ignored. > > Oops, actually -C is not the default of course and it will also be > ignored. > I now know why the problem is occuring with ncftp and it has to do with > it not conforming to the RFC regarding the NLST command. I don't think I'm > going to work around that. A large fraction of Unix people use ncftp2. I'd hope you would reconsider - or if not, at least add a warning and a suggestion for another useable commandline FTP client to the login message. I've not yet seen another usable commandline FTP for Unix :-( Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 05:20:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14335 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 05:20:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14324 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 05:20:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id OAA09062; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:15:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13696; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:02:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980502140210.A13378@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:02:10 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: fschulte@hightek.com Subject: Unix vs. NT and something good about FreeBSD ... collection of URL's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Look at this link ... http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/#Unix Promo Corner There are some interesting articles ! One from a Microsoft Certified Professional, who collected a huge list of informations, why NT isn't well suited as a server platform.... Linux and FreeBSD are mentioned together in one breath, that sounds good folks ;-) Contains some positive statements about FreeBSD. BTW, if you have some more like this, don't hesitate to send me the URLŽs for inclusion ... Well, I think soon I need a Web designer, the start page is getting full ;-) Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 06:22:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20218 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:22:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20208 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:22:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from EXIT10 (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.97]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA25609; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:22:33 -0400 (EDT) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Andreas Klemm Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The true meaning of NT Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:24:42 GMT Message-ID: <354f1e1b.93151734@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199805011408.HAA14370@freefall.freebsd.org> <19980502141108.A13749@klemm.gtn.com> In-Reply-To: <19980502141108.A13749@klemm.gtn.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id GAA20209 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 2 May 1998 14:11:08 +0200, Andreas Klemm wrote: >"NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) NT = Net Trash (John Kelly) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 06:42:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22754 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:42:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22700 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:42:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA22661; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805021341.GAA22661@implode.root.com> To: Eivind Eklund cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 May 1998 14:17:57 +0200." <19980502141757.54394@follo.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 06:41:32 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 05:10:32PM -0700, David Greenman wrote: >> I said: >> >> >a much smaller set. -C would be the default in any case, and -F will be >> >ignored. >> >> Oops, actually -C is not the default of course and it will also be >> ignored. >> I now know why the problem is occuring with ncftp and it has to do with >> it not conforming to the RFC regarding the NLST command. I don't think I'm >> going to work around that. > >A large fraction of Unix people use ncftp2. I'd hope you would >reconsider - or if not, at least add a warning and a suggestion for >another useable commandline FTP client to the login message. I've not >yet seen another usable commandline FTP for Unix :-( ncftp and ncftp2 work fine. What is broken is that people expect that passing arguments to the "ls" command will be interpreted on the other end when the RFC specifically says otherwise. RFC 959 is quite specific about the behavior of the NLST command (which is what 'ls' does in ncftp): NAME LIST (NLST) This command causes a directory listing to be sent from server to user site. The pathname should specify a directory or other system-specific file group descriptor; a null argument implies the current directory. The server will return a stream of names of files and no other information. The data will be transferred in ASCII or EBCDIC type over the data connection as valid pathname strings separated by or . (Again the user must ensure that the TYPE is correct.) This command is intended to return information that can be used by a program to further process the files automatically. For example, in the implementation of a "multiple get" function. It specifically does not provide for multicolumn output, funny characters added to the filenames to indicate their type, or provide for the passing and processing of any command options. It takes a pathname argument and nothing more. The reason that it worked at all with the standard BSD ftpd server is that that had a kludge in the code to work around getting bogus arguments to NLST, even though this makes it violate the FTP RFC. If I wanted to support this in my code, it is more than a matter of adding a similar kludge - I'll also have to write the code to do those (-C -F, etc) options, and I'm not too excited about doing that, especially when the whole point of this exercise was to reduce CPU and memory overhead on the machine. I am still listening to people's comments, however... :-) -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 06:57:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24850 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:57:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24845 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:57:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23267; Sat, 2 May 1998 13:57:19 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA08742; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:57:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980502155703.02558@follo.net> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:57:03 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: dg@root.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? References: <19980502141757.54394@follo.net> <199805021341.GAA22661@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199805021341.GAA22661@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Sat, May 02, 1998 at 06:41:32AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 06:41:32AM -0700, David Greenman wrote: [... on NLST ...] > It specifically does not provide for multicolumn output, funny characters > added to the filenames to indicate their type, or provide for the passing and > processing of any command options. It takes a pathname argument and nothing > more. The reason that it worked at all with the standard BSD ftpd server is > that that had a kludge in the code to work around getting bogus arguments > to NLST, even though this makes it violate the FTP RFC. > If I wanted to support this in my code, it is more than a matter of > adding a similar kludge - I'll also have to write the code to do those > (-C -F, etc) options, and I'm not too excited about doing that, especially > when the whole point of this exercise was to reduce CPU and memory overhead > on the machine. Would it be feasible to just ignore any bogus arguments? This would probably at least make 'ls' in ncftp give a directory listing, instead of just giving an error message (which IMO makes it unusable :-( It's a hack, but it might still be the right tradeoff. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 07:00:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25392 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:00:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25365 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id QAA19421; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:00:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17127; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:53:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980502155300.A17115@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:53:00 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: John Kelly Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The true meaning of NT References: <199805011408.HAA14370@freefall.freebsd.org> <19980502141108.A13749@klemm.gtn.com> <354f1e1b.93151734@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <354f1e1b.93151734@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Sat, May 02, 1998 at 01:24:42PM +0000 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 01:24:42PM +0000, John Kelly wrote: > On Sat, 2 May 1998 14:11:08 +0200, Andreas Klemm > wrote: > > >"NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) > > NT = Net Trash (John Kelly) Never Tolerable Never Trusted No Technology ;-) -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 07:20:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27787 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:20:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27776 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:20:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24355; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:20:47 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA08860; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:20:31 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980502162031.33640@follo.net> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:20:31 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Andreas Klemm Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The true meaning of NT References: <199805011408.HAA14370@freefall.freebsd.org> <19980502141108.A13749@klemm.gtn.com> <354f1e1b.93151734@mail.cetlink.net> <19980502155300.A17115@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980502155300.A17115@klemm.gtn.com>; from Andreas Klemm on Sat, May 02, 1998 at 03:53:00PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 03:53:00PM +0200, Andreas Klemm wrote: > On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 01:24:42PM +0000, John Kelly wrote: > > On Sat, 2 May 1998 14:11:08 +0200, Andreas Klemm > > wrote: > > > > >"NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) > > > > NT = Net Trash (John Kelly) > > Never Tolerable > Never Trusted > No Technology > > ;-) "NT - where multiplying the code size by 6 is considered a 'bugfix release'" We really trust them not to introduce bugs and security problems in that 5x more code. Truly. Microsoft has never had a serious bug. Eivind, who'd feel he was a liar if he said anything else. Hey, Win95 worked on that machine yesterday until he did half a FreeBSD boot (to see a HD probe), so it must be FreeBSD's fault, right? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 09:27:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15091 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:27:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15067 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:27:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id SAA06260; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:27:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:27:07 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) Cc: Andreas Klemm , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The true meaning of NT References: <199805011408.HAA14370@freefall.freebsd.org> <19980502141108.A13749@klemm.gtn.com> <354f1e1b.93151734@mail.cetlink.net> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 02 May 1998 18:27:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: jak@cetlink.net's message of "Sat, 02 May 1998 13:24:42 GMT" Message-ID: Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) writes: > >"NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) > NT = Net Trash (John Kelly) Around here, we usually call it Windows Nice Try... -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 09:32:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15870 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:32:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15853 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:32:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id SAA06538; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:31:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:31:42 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund Cc: dg@root.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? References: <199805020010.RAA12061@implode.root.com> <19980502141757.54394@follo.net> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 02 May 1998 18:31:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: Eivind Eklund's message of "Sat, 2 May 1998 14:17:57 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund writes: > A large fraction of Unix people use ncftp2. I'd hope you would > reconsider - or if not, at least add a warning and a suggestion for > another useable commandline FTP client to the login message. I've not > yet seen another usable commandline FTP for Unix :-( The /bin/ftp client that comes with FreeBSD is actually quite nice IMHO (OK, it doesn't have bookmarks like ncftp2 does, but it has command history and command line editing which is all I ask for) -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 09:36:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16562 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:36:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16557 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:36:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA29938; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:36:22 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA09320; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:36:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980502183606.64157@follo.net> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:36:06 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? References: <199805020010.RAA12061@implode.root.com> <19980502141757.54394@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzppvhwy6qe=2Efsf=40skejdbrimir=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_from_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Sat=2C_May_02=2C_1?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?998_at_06=3A31=3A37PM_+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 06:31:37PM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > Eivind Eklund writes: > > A large fraction of Unix people use ncftp2. I'd hope you would > > reconsider - or if not, at least add a warning and a suggestion for > > another useable commandline FTP client to the login message. I've not > > yet seen another usable commandline FTP for Unix :-( > > The /bin/ftp client that comes with FreeBSD is actually quite nice > IMHO (OK, it doesn't have bookmarks like ncftp2 does, but it has > command history and command line editing which is all I ask for) TAB COMPLETION! :-) Hmm - seems ftp has gotten that, too, along with the command line editing (a merge from NetBSD that I'd forgotten). I'll probably switch back :-) However, /usr/bin/ftp only exist on *BSD - there are loads of other systems out there :-( Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 09:44:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17383 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:44:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from prairiecomm.prairiecommunications.com (mail.prairiecommunications.com [208.141.230.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17286 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alk@pobox.com) Received: from 208.141.230.88 by prairiecomm.prairiecommunications.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id K151Z1YX; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:38:59 -0500 Received: (from alk@localhost) by pobox.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA27769; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:49:12 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 11:49:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199805021649.LAA27769@pobox.com> From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Face: O9M"E%K;(f-Go/XDxL+pCxI5*gr[=FN@Y`cl1.Tn Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: digest lists please! X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd very much appreciate digest versions of freebsd-net, freebsd-multimedia. In my majordomo-naivete, I assume this is just a matter of flipping a switch. Please, to flip. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 09:50:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18489 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:50:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18367 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:50:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.212.250]) by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0yVfTw-00040q-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:49:48 +0100 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:49:49 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: Eivind Eklund cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? In-Reply-To: <19980502183606.64157@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > The /bin/ftp client that comes with FreeBSD is actually quite nice > > IMHO (OK, it doesn't have bookmarks like ncftp2 does, but it has > > command history and command line editing which is all I ask for) > > TAB COMPLETION! :-) > > Hmm - seems ftp has gotten that, too, along with the command line > editing (a merge from NetBSD that I'd forgotten). I'll probably > switch back :-) How do you get tab completion and command history/command line editing when using /usr/bin/ftp? Mine doesn't do that. (FreeBSD 2.2.5) Thanks. Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 09:53:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18875 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:53:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18857 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:53:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id SAA07850; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:52:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:52:49 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk Cc: Eivind Eklund , Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? References: Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 02 May 1998 18:52:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: Ben Cohen's message of "Sat, 2 May 1998 17:49:49 +0100 (BST)" Message-ID: Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ben Cohen writes: > How do you get tab completion and command history/command line editing > when using /usr/bin/ftp? Mine doesn't do that. (FreeBSD 2.2.5) Forgive us for running current :) -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 09:54:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19113 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:54:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19069 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:54:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00316; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:54:24 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA09417; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:54:07 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980502185407.16709@follo.net> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:54:07 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? References: <19980502183606.64157@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Ben Cohen on Sat, May 02, 1998 at 05:49:49PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 05:49:49PM +0100, Ben Cohen wrote: > > > The /bin/ftp client that comes with FreeBSD is actually quite nice > > > IMHO (OK, it doesn't have bookmarks like ncftp2 does, but it has > > > command history and command line editing which is all I ask for) > > > > TAB COMPLETION! :-) > > > > Hmm - seems ftp has gotten that, too, along with the command line > > editing (a merge from NetBSD that I'd forgotten). I'll probably > > switch back :-) > > How do you get tab completion and command history/command line editing > when using /usr/bin/ftp? Mine doesn't do that. (FreeBSD 2.2.5) You upgrade to 2.2.6-stable or 3.0-current (no differences between those two). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 09:55:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19202 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:55:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19152 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:54:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.212.250]) by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0yVfYd-00047o-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:54:39 +0100 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:54:41 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= cc: Eivind Eklund , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > How do you get tab completion and command history/command line editing > > when using /usr/bin/ftp? Mine doesn't do that. (FreeBSD 2.2.5) > > Forgive us for running current :) That's OK---I'll have to upgrade sometime.... Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 10:49:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25766 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 10:49:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic31.pm01.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25758 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 10:49:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA10176; Sat, 2 May 1998 10:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980502104906.41559@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 10:49:06 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: John Kelly , Andreas Klemm , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The true meaning of NT Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199805011408.HAA14370@freefall.freebsd.org> <19980502141108.A13749@klemm.gtn.com> <354f1e1b.93151734@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpra2cy6y1=2Efsf=40skejdbrimir=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_from_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Sat=2C_May_02=2C_1?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?998_at_06=3A27=3A02PM_+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 06:27:02PM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) writes: > > >"NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) > > NT = Net Trash (John Kelly) > > Around here, we usually call it Windows Nice Try... > NT = Nasty Toy Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 11:09:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28478 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:09:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28437 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:09:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (jack@localhost) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.Beta3) with SMTP id OAA10343 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:09:34 -0400 (EDT) From: jack To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The true meaning of NT In-Reply-To: <354f1e1b.93151734@mail.cetlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 2 May 1998, John Kelly wrote: > On Sat, 2 May 1998 14:11:08 +0200, Andreas Klemm > wrote: > > >"NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) > > NT = Net Trash (John Kelly) NT = No, Thank you (???) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc. Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 11:41:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02480 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:41:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02474 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:41:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10372; Sat, 2 May 1998 12:41:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199805021841.MAA10372@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 12:41:03 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: The true meaning of NT In-Reply-To: <19980502104906.41559@mooseriver.com> References: <199805011408.HAA14370@freefall.freebsd.org> <19980502141108.A13749@klemm.gtn.com> <354f1e1b.93151734@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org NT: Never Trust it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 11:42:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02732 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:42:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02717 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id UAA14211; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:42:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:42:27 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: jack Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The true meaning of NT References: Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 02 May 1998 20:42:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: jack's message of "Sat, 2 May 1998 14:09:34 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 7 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org jack writes: > NT = No, Thank you (???) Try "No Thanks"... -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 12:05:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06349 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 12:05:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06340 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 12:05:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@watch.out.for.the.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.252]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA26986; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:05:30 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:05:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: John Kelly cc: Andreas Klemm , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The true meaning of NT In-Reply-To: <354f1e1b.93151734@mail.cetlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 2 May 1998, John Kelly wrote: > On Sat, 2 May 1998 14:11:08 +0200, Andreas Klemm > wrote: > > >"NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) > > NT = Net Trash (John Kelly) NT = Neanderthal Technology (not mine...) -- Chris Dillon --- cdillon@inter-linc.net --- cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 12:10:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07122 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 12:10:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (fern17.verinet.com [199.45.181.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07058 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 12:09:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12222; Sat, 2 May 1998 13:01:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:01:32 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199805021901.NAA12222@const.> To: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, jak@cetlink.net Subject: Re: The true meaning of NT Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <354f1e1b.93151734@mail.cetlink.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >"NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) > > NT = Net Trash (John Kelly) NT = Never Tested (Allen Campbell) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 14:33:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20500 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:33:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20484 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:33:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.0.Beta7/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id XAA13494 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 2 May 1998 23:33:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id TAA16525 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:44:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980502194442.A16519@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:44:42 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199805020010.RAA12061@implode.root.com> <19980502141757.54394@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.3i In-Reply-To: <19980502141757.54394@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Sat, May 02, 1998 at 02:17:57PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4245 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Eivind Eklund: > another useable commandline FTP client to the login message. I've not > yet seen another usable commandline FTP for Unix :-( Try the much more usable although alpha version of ncftp3 (in ports). It has the features of ncftp2 (without the visual part) with more practical interface of ncftp1 (although the bookmark feature is less usable than ncftp1). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #8: Tue Apr 21 02:45:53 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 17:26:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12885 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12808 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:25:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA13484; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:25:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199805030025.SAA13484@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 18:25:47 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: InfoWorld Electric: Linux Zealots Trashing FreeBSD, Berkeley License Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As usual, a group of GPL zealots have gotten loose in an InfoWorld forum, claiming that RMS is nothing less than a saint and that the GPL is The One True Way. They're also trashing FreeBSD and the Berkeley-style license quite a bit. Some folks from this list might care to join in.... In fact, I think they should, as previous discussions on the InfoWorld forums have raised FreeBSD's profile. The URL for the discussion is http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?53767 You can read the messages without registering, but need to fill out a short registration form to post. (From what I can tell, you don't have to give much -- or accurate -- information on the form.) --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 17:40:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14364 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:40:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14353 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:40:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA08309 for ; Sun, 3 May 1998 03:39:21 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <354BBCAE.DB43058F@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 03:39:13 +0300 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Organization: GlavAPU X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: Oracle on Linux enhancement request, need your support!] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E8BE934988ACFFA7F713482F" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E8BE934988ACFFA7F713482F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA --------------E8BE934988ACFFA7F713482F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Path: freenews.gu.net!titanic.visualtek.com!uunet!in4.uu.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.ipass.net!not-for-mail From: "David Sisk" Newsgroups: comp.databases.oracle.misc,comp.databases.oracle.server Subject: Oracle on Linux enhancement request, need your support! X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 21:25:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ts4-41-ppp.ipass.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:25:37 EDT Organization: iPass.Net Xref: freenews.gu.net comp.databases.oracle.misc:5746 comp.databases.oracle.server:8748 Fellow Linux users: I have posted several questions to this newsgroup, and I have been very impressed with the quality of the responses, as well as the whole Linux community in general. I'm installing Caldera's OpenLinux Base distribution on a different PC right now (yes, I'm a newbie!), and I'd like to do what little I personally can to help this O/S grow in popularity and even successfully compete with Microsoft WindowsNT for corporate marketshare. To contribute my little piece to the puzzle, I have gotten an enhancement request generated at Oracle Corporation to provide a Linux port of Oracle8 and other tools. (Enhancement request# 663419, the text from the request is attached below.) To my understanding, none of the major database vendors currently have a version of their core database product for the Linux O/S, although I believe all of them are being asked for it. From my perspective as an Oracle database administrator, one of the happenings that would definitely help push the Linux O/S into corporations (and allow it to be taken very seriously as an alternative to MS Windows95 and MS WindowsNT) would be for the major database vendors to provide product offerings for Linux. Oracle Corporation (supposedly) periodically reviews enhancement requests and looks at input from user groups, IOUG-A enhancements voting, and number of TAR's (technical assistance requests) logged against the respective enhancement requests. They already have the enhancement request, so if anyone wants to help push, here's what you can do: 1) If you are a member of the Internation Oracle User's Group - America's, you can vote on this enhancement request at the next round of voting this year. See www.ioug.org for details. 2) If you are a member of a local Oracle user's group, type up a simple petition stating that "The following member's of the xxx Oracle User's Group would like to see Enhancement Request# 663419 'Linux port of ORACLE8' implemented". Have the user group members sign the petition, and mail it to: ORACLE Corporation Support Sales & Customer Services 500 Oracle Parkway Redwood Shores Ca 94065 3) If you are currently an Oracle customer and have purchased support services, then you can call in a TAR. Simply indicate that your company would like to see Enhancement Request# 663419 "Linux port of ORACLE8" implemented. Do this in addition to #1 and/or #2, as Oracle product managers review the volume of TAR's pointing to enhancement requests. 4) If the above two options aren't available to you (if you're not already an Oracle customer), then call the Support Sales & Customer Services at 1-800-392-2999, and let them know that you'd like to see Enhancement Request# 663419 "Linux port of ORACLE8" implemented. Feel free to post a copy of this on any other newsgroups or websites that you may know of. Thanks and kindest regards to everyone! Dave Sisk ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Enhancement Request#: 663419 > CREATE_ENHANCEMENT > ENH_COMMENTS: > Provide a port of the ORACLE8 enterprise data server and other ORACLE > tools and components for the LINUX operating system. Use ORACLE8 for > SCO Unix as the starting point, as several companies have already > gotten the SCO Unix port of ORACLE to run LINUX, after some tweaking > and customization of the O/S. > END_ENH_COMMENTS > HEADLINE: Linux port of ORACLE8 > SEVERITY: 2 > PLATFORM_SPECIFIC: N > COMPONENT: RDBMS > COMPONENT_VERSION: 8.0 > RDBMS_VERSION: 8.0 > BUSINESS_NEED: > As you may already know, the LINUX operating system is gaining > popularity very quickly. LINUX (one of the many flavors of unix) is > available for Intel x86 platforms, PowerPC platforms, Sun SPARC > platforms, Digital Alpha platforms, etc. LINUX is also reportedly one > of the top 5 O/S's used for commercial web-servers and ISP's. Leading > industry journals and analysts are indicating that LINUX has found > it's way into Corporate computing because of it's functionality, > stability, inexpensiveness, peformance, and portability over several > hardware platforms. Industry journals are predicting that LINUX will > begin to battle with WindowsNT for marketshare over the next several > years. LINUX will provide 64-bit operation on the upcoming Intel > Merced processor long before WindowsNT. Finally, there is rumor of an > initiative underway to enhance LINUX to natively support the NUMA > specification (shared-disk and shared-memory clustering across nodes) > on Intel platforms, thus allowing it tremendous scaleability and entry > into competition with other enterprise-level operating systems. > Providing an Oracle8 port for LINUX will not only help improve the O/S > popularity, it will provide another low-cost, multi-hardware platform > on which to run Oracle products and more marketshare for Oracle > Corporation. > BASE_BUG: > STOP --------------E8BE934988ACFFA7F713482F-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 18:06:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17160 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:06:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17100 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:06:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.43]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA5171; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:09:14 +0500 Message-ID: <354BC2CF.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:05:19 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Oracle on Linux enhancement request, need your support!] References: <354BBCAE.DB43058F@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Since SCO's Oracle (7) works fine under FreeBSD, I wouldn't see any benefit for us in a Linux version. If Oracle8 doesn't run, we should focus on improving our SYSV emulation, and/or request a FreeBSD port. OTOH I suspect Oracle has been looking closely FreeBSD and Linux. Wait till we have good kernel threads... Pedro. ( And IMHO Yes ! kill the penguin :) Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > -- > > @= > //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Oracle on Linux enhancement request, need your support! > Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 21:25:37 GMT > From: "David Sisk" > Organization: iPass.Net > Newsgroups: comp.databases.oracle.misc,comp.databases.oracle.server > > Fellow Linux users: > I have posted several questions to this newsgroup, and I have been very > impressed with the quality of the responses, as well as the whole Linux > community in general. I'm installing Caldera's OpenLinux Base distribution > on a different PC right now (yes, I'm a newbie!), and I'd like to do what > little I personally can to help this O/S grow in popularity and even > successfully compete with Microsoft WindowsNT for corporate marketshare. > To contribute my little piece to the puzzle, I have gotten an enhancement > request generated at Oracle Corporation to provide a Linux port of Oracle8 > and other tools. (Enhancement request# 663419, the text from the request is > attached below.) To my understanding, none of the major database vendors > currently have a version of their core database product for the Linux O/S, > although I believe all of them are being asked for it. From my perspective > as an Oracle database administrator, one of the happenings that would > definitely help push the Linux O/S into corporations (and allow it to be > taken very seriously as an alternative to MS Windows95 and MS WindowsNT) > would be for the major database vendors to provide product offerings for > Linux. > Oracle Corporation (supposedly) periodically reviews enhancement requests > and looks at input from user groups, IOUG-A enhancements voting, and number > of TAR's (technical assistance requests) logged against the respective > enhancement requests. They already have the enhancement request, so if > anyone wants to help push, here's what you can do: > 1) If you are a member of the Internation Oracle User's Group - America's, > you can vote on this enhancement request at the next round of voting this > year. See www.ioug.org for details. > 2) If you are a member of a local Oracle user's group, type up a simple > petition stating that "The following member's of the xxx Oracle User's Group > would like to see Enhancement Request# 663419 'Linux port of ORACLE8' > implemented". Have the user group members sign the petition, and mail it > to: > ORACLE Corporation > Support Sales & Customer Services > 500 Oracle Parkway > Redwood Shores Ca 94065 > 3) If you are currently an Oracle customer and have purchased support > services, then you can call in a TAR. Simply indicate that your company > would like to see Enhancement Request# 663419 "Linux port of ORACLE8" > implemented. Do this in addition to #1 and/or #2, as Oracle product > managers review the volume of TAR's pointing to enhancement requests. > 4) If the above two options aren't available to you (if you're not already > an Oracle customer), then call the Support Sales & Customer Services at > 1-800-392-2999, and let them know that you'd like to see Enhancement > Request# 663419 "Linux port of ORACLE8" implemented. > Feel free to post a copy of this on any other newsgroups or websites that > you may know of. > Thanks and kindest regards to everyone! > Dave Sisk > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Enhancement Request#: 663419 > > CREATE_ENHANCEMENT > > ENH_COMMENTS: > > Provide a port of the ORACLE8 enterprise data server and other ORACLE > > tools and components for the LINUX operating system. Use ORACLE8 for > > SCO Unix as the starting point, as several companies have already > > gotten the SCO Unix port of ORACLE to run LINUX, after some tweaking > > and customization of the O/S. > > END_ENH_COMMENTS > > HEADLINE: Linux port of ORACLE8 > > SEVERITY: 2 > > PLATFORM_SPECIFIC: N > > COMPONENT: RDBMS > > COMPONENT_VERSION: 8.0 > > RDBMS_VERSION: 8.0 > > BUSINESS_NEED: > > As you may already know, the LINUX operating system is gaining > > popularity very quickly. LINUX (one of the many flavors of unix) is > > available for Intel x86 platforms, PowerPC platforms, Sun SPARC > > platforms, Digital Alpha platforms, etc. LINUX is also reportedly one > > of the top 5 O/S's used for commercial web-servers and ISP's. Leading > > industry journals and analysts are indicating that LINUX has found > > it's way into Corporate computing because of it's functionality, > > stability, inexpensiveness, peformance, and portability over several > > hardware platforms. Industry journals are predicting that LINUX will > > begin to battle with WindowsNT for marketshare over the next several > > years. LINUX will provide 64-bit operation on the upcoming Intel > > Merced processor long before WindowsNT. Finally, there is rumor of an > > initiative underway to enhance LINUX to natively support the NUMA > > specification (shared-disk and shared-memory clustering across nodes) > > on Intel platforms, thus allowing it tremendous scaleability and entry > > into competition with other enterprise-level operating systems. > > Providing an Oracle8 port for LINUX will not only help improve the O/S > > popularity, it will provide another low-cost, multi-hardware platform > > on which to run Oracle products and more marketshare for Oracle > > Corporation. > > BASE_BUG: > > STOP To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 18:55:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25377 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:55:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25330 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:55:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-96.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.96]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAB27856; Sun, 3 May 1998 01:55:19 GMT Message-ID: <354BCB86.E991DBC9@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 18:42:30 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: alk@pobox.com CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: digest lists please! References: <199805021649.LAA27769@pobox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org and -questions. I'd like to participate again, but I don't have a home link fast enough to get hundreds of individual mail sends. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 19:14:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29406 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:14:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29306 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:13:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09930; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <354BD2DF.70781E6A@san.rr.com> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 19:13:51 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0426 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ben Cohen wrote: > How do you get tab completion and command history/command line editing > when using /usr/bin/ftp? Mine doesn't do that. (FreeBSD 2.2.5) Upgrade to 2.2.6. :) Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 19:22:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01731 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:22:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01655; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:21:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA03654; Sun, 3 May 1998 11:51:41 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980503115141.I3202@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:51:41 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: InfoWorld Electric: Linux Zealots Trashing FreeBSD, Berkeley License Reply-To: FreeBSD advocacy list References: <199805030025.SAA13484@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199805030025.SAA13484@lariat.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sat, May 02, 1998 at 06:25:47PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 2 May 1998 at 18:25:47 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > As usual, a group of GPL zealots have gotten loose in an InfoWorld forum, > claiming that RMS is nothing less than a saint and that the GPL is The One > True Way. They're also trashing FreeBSD and the Berkeley-style license > quite a bit. Some folks from this list might care to join in.... In fact, I > think they should, as previous discussions on the InfoWorld forums have > raised FreeBSD's profile. The URL for the discussion is > > http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?53767 > > You can read the messages without registering, but need to fill out a short > registration form to post. (From what I can tell, you don't have to give > much -- or accurate -- information on the form.) Copying (and following-up to) advocacy. This seems a better forum. Well, speech is free, but I don't think you'll get much satisfaction fighting a bunch of people who see things differently. Having said that, of course, I'd have a hard time suggesting that you stop :-) I don't think that it's a good idea to get FreeBSD's name too involved in this kind of discussion, though. It'll just give the zealots more ammunition. (I don't know if you *do* mention FreeBSD--I haven't had time to read all the messages. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 19:26:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02773 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:26:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02591; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:26:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA21428; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:25:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:25:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: Lanny Baron cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printing...but thanks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Lanny Baron wrote: > Just a note of thanks to all of you who sent me mail to help me > set up my printer. I am trying but without much luck :-( > > Most important is the fact that many of you took the time to mail > me with help. No problem. Keep us posted. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 19:30:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04153 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:30:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04093 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:30:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA17069; Sun, 3 May 1998 12:30:05 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980503122957.36425@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 12:29:57 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: dwilde1@ibm.net Cc: alk@pobox.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: digest lists please! References: <199805021649.LAA27769@pobox.com> <354BCB86.E991DBC9@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <354BCB86.E991DBC9@ibm.net>; from Don Wilde on Sat, May 02, 1998 at 06:42:30PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 06:42:30PM -0700, Don Wilde wrote: > and -questions. I'd like to participate again, but I don't have a home > link fast enough to get hundreds of individual mail sends. I keep forgetting how lucky I am to have a 28.8 modem :-) How on earth would we cope with 50 messages each day all with the same subject: FreeBSD Questions Digest Volume X Number Y Ugh -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 20:19:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14518 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:19:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14493; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:18:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15026; Sat, 2 May 1998 21:18:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199805030318.VAA15026@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 21:18:49 -0600 To: FreeBSD advocacy list , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: InfoWorld Electric: Linux Zealots Trashing FreeBSD, Berkeley License In-Reply-To: <19980503115141.I3202@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199805030025.SAA13484@lariat.lariat.org> <199805030025.SAA13484@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm not mentioning FreeBSD explicitly in my messages, but I *am* advocating the Berkeley-style license. The angry zealots who respond to me, however, are trashing FreeBSD and the *BSDs in general. I agree that one can rarely "win" these arguments, but one can raise the awareness level of the lurkers (of which there are many) that there's an alternative point of view. That's where the benefit comes in. --Brett P.S. -- I'm cross-posting this one reply to both lists, but further discussion probably shouldn't be. At 11:51 AM 5/3/98 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Sat, 2 May 1998 at 18:25:47 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >> As usual, a group of GPL zealots have gotten loose in an InfoWorld forum, >> claiming that RMS is nothing less than a saint and that the GPL is The One >> True Way. They're also trashing FreeBSD and the Berkeley-style license >> quite a bit. Some folks from this list might care to join in.... In fact, I >> think they should, as previous discussions on the InfoWorld forums have >> raised FreeBSD's profile. The URL for the discussion is >> >> http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?53767 >> >> You can read the messages without registering, but need to fill out a short >> registration form to post. (From what I can tell, you don't have to give >> much -- or accurate -- information on the form.) > >Copying (and following-up to) advocacy. This seems a better forum. > >Well, speech is free, but I don't think you'll get much satisfaction >fighting a bunch of people who see things differently. Having said >that, of course, I'd have a hard time suggesting that you stop :-) > >I don't think that it's a good idea to get FreeBSD's name too involved >in this kind of discussion, though. It'll just give the zealots more >ammunition. (I don't know if you *do* mention FreeBSD--I haven't had >time to read all the messages. > >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 2 23:41:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17837 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 23:41:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17829 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 23:41:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id AAA08598; Sun, 3 May 1998 00:41:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA01239; Sun, 3 May 1998 00:39:38 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:39:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Marc Slemko To: David Greenman cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org acting funny? In-Reply-To: <199805021341.GAA22661@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 2 May 1998, David Greenman wrote: > >On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 05:10:32PM -0700, David Greenman wrote: > >> I said: > >> > >> >a much smaller set. -C would be the default in any case, and -F will be > >> >ignored. > >> > >> Oops, actually -C is not the default of course and it will also be > >> ignored. > >> I now know why the problem is occuring with ncftp and it has to do with > >> it not conforming to the RFC regarding the NLST command. I don't think I'm > >> going to work around that. > > > >A large fraction of Unix people use ncftp2. I'd hope you would > >reconsider - or if not, at least add a warning and a suggestion for > >another useable commandline FTP client to the login message. I've not > >yet seen another usable commandline FTP for Unix :-( > > ncftp and ncftp2 work fine. What is broken is that people expect that > passing arguments to the "ls" command will be interpreted on the other > end when the RFC specifically says otherwise. RFC 959 is quite specific > about the behavior of the NLST command (which is what 'ls' does in ncftp): Except that just issuing a "ls" in at least some versions of ncftp2 _doesn't_ work. marcs@valis:~$ ncftp2 ftp.freebsd.org NcFTP 2.4.2 (October 28, 1996), by Mike Gleason, NCEMRSoft. [...] Guest login ok, access restrictions apply. freebsd:/> ls -CF: No such file or directory. There may be some option to stop it from sending that, but... So yes, they do work fine for some definitions of fine and you can just use dir, but... Yes, I sympathize with the pain of broken clients. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message