From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 26 22:27:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13042 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:27:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.dtir.qld.gov.au (firewall-user@ns.dtir.qld.gov.au [203.108.138.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13033; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:27:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au) Received: by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au; id PAA27529; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:26:13 +1000 (EST) Received: from ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au(167.123.8.3) by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma027510; Mon, 27 Jul 98 15:26:08 +1000 Received: from atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.8.9]) by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24797; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:26:08 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.10.10]) by atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17378; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:26:08 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (localhost.dtir.qld.gov.au [127.0.0.1]) by nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA28201; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:26:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from syssgm@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au) Message-Id: <199807270526.PAA28201@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> To: Greg Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Summary of final changes to FreeBSD 2.2.7 References: <19980725111837.F716@freebie.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <19980725111837.F716@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:18:37 +0930" Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:26:06 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 25th July 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >While I agree with this sentiment, I think we should bear in mind that >it could have been better. This time, for some reason, there were a >lot of dissenting voices in the mailing lists. Didn't we use to do a >Beta release? Have you watched what happens when there is an aggressive beta release program? Everyone gets really excited and sticks untested things in at the last moment, the beta goes over time, people get sick of the delay, and out it goes warts and all. I was a little surprised to see Jordan stick to his schedule even though I'd forgotten about it. But the end result, I think, will be more stable than previous releases *because* it caught everyone by surprise. >If Jordan had released 2.2.7 beta on Monday (or even >the Wednesday before) and let people download it, within a week the >rough edges would have been knocked off, there would have been less >stress, and less idiots sending out messages saying that FreeBSD 2.2.7 >was a load of shit. Hmm. I don't think I agree. It looks to me like the rough edges got knocked off in record time, and the only down side was a lot of ill informed ranting on the lists. There's ill informed ranting all the time, so that doesn't concern me much. And my 2.2.7 machine works just fine. Stephen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 26 23:05:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16089 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:05:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@[206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16081 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:05:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15298; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:04:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199807270604.AAA15298@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:04:25 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Object-oriented chickens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I once supplied the following Object Pascal program to a magazine in response to the question "why did the (object-oriented) chicken cross the road?" --Brett Glass program KFC; uses Salt, Pepper, Flour, HotOil, Poultry, MackTruck; const MPH = 90; var {Don't reference your chickens before they're declared!} Chicken : Poultry.Fowl; Truck : MackTruck.EighteenWheeler; begin Chicken.Hatch; {Constructor} Truck.Start; {Constructor} Truck.Rev(MPH); Chicken.Cross(Road); Truck.Horn.Honk; Truck.Brake := TRUE; Truck.Tires.PutStr('Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...'); Chicken.PutStr('Scra-daaaaaaaaaaaaaawk!'); Stop; Look; Listen; if Chicken.Flat then Output(Colonel,Chicken); end. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 01:02:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26576 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:02:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26568 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id BAA26152; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:01:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:01:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-sf@arachna.com Subject: My upcoming FreeBSD talk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all, Those of you who are local (and most people on freebsd-sf are), I will be giving a talk on building firewalls with FreeBSD at the Internet Development Group. Of course this is all to promote FreeBSD, hell with firewalls (kidding). Talk will be next month in one of Netscape buildings in Mtn. View on August 18th (Tuesday). Feel free to put on your FreeBSD t-shirt and stop by to support your favorite OS. :) For more info: www.inetdevgrp.org -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." "Write longer sentences - they are paying us a lot of money" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 04:42:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA01185 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 04:42:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de [194.233.237.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA01178 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 04:42:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cracauer@gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (8.8.8/8.7.3) id NAA10183; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:46:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980727134631.A8554@cons.org> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:46:31 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: Wes Peters , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Free software and politics (Forwarded from lucio@proxima.alt.za) References: <199807231732.KAA25434@usr04.primenet.com> <35B7BA13.EF8A4ED2@softweyr.com> <19980724105522.A4384@cityip.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <19980724105522.A4384@cityip.co.za>; from Johann Visagie on Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 10:55:22AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > [ I replied to Terry Lambert's original question, CC'ing to -chat and > -advocacy, and the MLM rejected my posting saying I had CC'd to _three_ > lists (-chat, and -advocacy twice). Strange. ] It's the new mutt, it generates bogus mail-followup-to headers. Update to the newest port or turn it off in your .muttrc Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany http://www.bsdhh.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 12:58:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25614 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:58:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postal.accessus.net (root@postal.accessus.net [204.248.93.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25597 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:58:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mcneills@accessus.net) Received: from mcneills (kew1-203.dialup.accessus.net [207.206.182.203]) by postal.accessus.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA16237 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:57:40 -0500 Received: by mcneills (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:57:06 -0500 Message-ID: <000801bdb998$828c9220$0200a8c0@Dell> Reply-To: "Dennis Reiter" From: "Dennis Reiter" To: Subject: QPopper exploit Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:55:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.2038.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2039.0 X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.5 Unregistered Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In case anyone thinks that the QPopper exploit won't affect them, because they only use a dial-up line and have a Dynamic IP, three times in the past week someone from a dial-up line in Minnesota (ppp64.wimpy.msp.mn.state.net) has attempted to break into my home box. I have Fetchmail setup to dial-in and retrieve mail every other hour between 6am & 10pm, and also use my workstation as a gateway, so I have one of about 100 different IP addresses each time I call in. I don't know why they failed the first time (I hadn't upgraded -- who in the world would want to hack _ME_? <:-|) but I caught a strange line of ^P's in my syslog. I upgraded immediately after changing my shorts and they've tried twice more, once while I was sitting at the console doing a 'make world.' So in case anyone thinks they aren't vulnerable, especially after reading what happened to Brett, think again. Just because the chance of it happening is small, doesn't mean it won't. Regards, Denny Reiter denny@kewanee.net ------------------------------------------ FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 13:10:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27719 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:10:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27639 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:10:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id NAA24274; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:09:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:09:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Dennis Reiter cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: QPopper exploit In-Reply-To: <000801bdb998$828c9220$0200a8c0@Dell> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Every computer which is somehow connected to any network (be it Internet or not) must have proper security in place. If you think you not going to get broken into for whatever reason .. guess what? Yes. -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." "Write longer sentences - they are paying us a lot of money" On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Dennis Reiter wrote: >In case anyone thinks that the QPopper exploit won't affect them, >because they only use a dial-up line and have a Dynamic IP, >three times in the past week someone from a dial-up line in >Minnesota (ppp64.wimpy.msp.mn.state.net) has attempted to break >into my home box. > >I have Fetchmail setup to dial-in and retrieve mail every other >hour between 6am & 10pm, and also use my workstation as a gateway, >so I have one of about 100 different IP addresses each time I call >in. I don't know why they failed the first time (I hadn't upgraded >-- who in the world would want to hack _ME_? <:-|) but I caught >a strange line of ^P's in my syslog. I upgraded immediately after >changing my shorts and they've tried twice more, once while I was >sitting at the console doing a 'make world.' > >So in case anyone thinks they aren't vulnerable, especially after >reading what happened to Brett, think again. Just because the >chance of it happening is small, doesn't mean it won't. > >Regards, >Denny Reiter >denny@kewanee.net >------------------------------------------ >FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. >See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 13:25:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00853 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:25:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00793 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:25:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id WAA11947; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:24:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:24:40 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Jan B. Koum " Cc: Dennis Reiter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: QPopper exploit References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 27 Jul 1998 22:24:39 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Jan B. Koum "'s message of "Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:09:26 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA00807 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jan B. Koum " writes: > Every computer which is somehow connected to any network (be it > Internet or not) must have proper security in place. If you think you not > going to get broken into for whatever reason .. guess what? Yes. You know that, and I know that, and I'm sure quite a few other readers of this list know that. But you'd be amazed to know how many people believe that crackers will overlook them just because they're on a dialup. If I were a cracker, the first thing I'd try would be to scan IP ranges known to belong to large ISPs' dialup servers, precisely for that reason (and also because there's a much higher chance of finding machines run by inexperienced or careless people there than amongst permanently connected hosts) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 14:23:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12170 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:23:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postal.accessus.net (root@postal.accessus.net [204.248.93.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12086 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:23:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mcneills@accessus.net) Received: from mcneills (kew1-213.dialup.accessus.net [207.206.182.213]) by postal.accessus.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA00143; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:22:28 -0500 Received: by mcneills (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:24:56 -0500 Message-ID: <001c01bdb9a4$c79de1f0$0200a8c0@Dell> Reply-To: "Dennis Reiter" From: "Dennis Reiter" To: "Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav " , "Jan B Koum" Cc: Subject: Re: QPopper exploit Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:23:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.2038.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2039.0 X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.5 Unregistered Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >"Jan B. Koum " writes: >> Every computer which is somehow connected to any network (be it >> Internet or not) must have proper security in place. If you think you not >> going to get broken into for whatever reason .. guess what? Yes. > >You know that, and I know that, and I'm sure quite a few other readers >of this list know that. But you'd be amazed to know how many people >believe that crackers will overlook them just because they're on a >dialup. > >If I were a cracker, the first thing I'd try would be to scan IP >ranges known to belong to large ISPs' dialup servers, precisely for >that reason (and also because there's a much higher chance of finding >machines run by inexperienced or careless people there than amongst >permanently connected hosts) > >DES >-- >Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no > Exactly, and I should and do know better. I'm considering this to be my "wake-up call" and consider myself lucky. I just don't want anyone else to ignore it like me and pay the price. The more I think about it, there's no reason at the present time for anybody outside my personal network to even be able to access the POP port. Doh! Another hole for me to patch. I better get busy....... P.S. 2.2.7 is running great. Not one problem, Kudos to everybody!! Regards, Denny Reiter denny@kewanee.net ------------------------------------------ FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 15:12:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22060 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:12:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tower.my.domain (nscs28p5.remote.umass.edu [128.119.179.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21967 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:12:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gp@philos.umass.edu) Received: from localhost (gp@localhost) by tower.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA08588; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:14:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gp@tower.my.domain) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:14:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Pavelcak X-Sender: gp@tower.my.domain To: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= cc: "Jan B. Koum " , Dennis Reiter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: QPopper exploit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA22002 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Dag-Erling Coidan [iso-8859-1] Smørgrav wrote: > "Jan B. Koum " writes: > > Every computer which is somehow connected to any network (be it > > Internet or not) must have proper security in place. If you think you not > > going to get broken into for whatever reason .. guess what? Yes. > > You know that, and I know that, and I'm sure quite a few other readers > of this list know that. But you'd be amazed to know how many people > believe that crackers will overlook them just because they're on a > dialup. Me, for example. But the question is what constitutes "proper security" for a run-of-the-mill pc-user (well equipped with FreeBSD as his OS) who only goes on-line to fetch his mail and do a little surfing. > > If I were a cracker, the first thing I'd try would be to scan IP > ranges known to belong to large ISPs' dialup servers, precisely for > that reason (and also because there's a much higher chance of finding > machines run by inexperienced or careless people there than amongst > permanently connected hosts) Hmm, major universities for example? (He asks through his UMass PPP account.) > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no > Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 16:01:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01068 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:01:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@[206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01058 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:01:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00688; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199807272300.RAA00688@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:28:36 -0600 To: Greg Pavelcak , Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: QPopper exploit Cc: "Jan B. Koum " , Dennis Reiter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:14 PM 7/27/98 -0400, Greg Pavelcak wrote: >> If I were a cracker, the first thing I'd try would be to scan IP >> ranges known to belong to large ISPs' dialup servers, precisely for >> that reason (and also because there's a much higher chance of finding >> machines run by inexperienced or careless people there than amongst >> permanently connected hosts) > >Hmm, major universities for example? (He asks through his UMass >PPP account.) Major universities often have LOTS of holes. Many haven't patched that Annex server problem, and a few even have *wide open* PPP connections that anyone can use if he or she knows some basic terminal server commands. All dial-ins should be carefully firewalled against exploits. We use SLiRP running on FreeBSD, which is highly effective as a protective layer. (See, we're not such slouches on security, even if our mail server WAS hit by the QPopper exploit.) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 16:11:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03101 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03084 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:11:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id QAA09220; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:11:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:11:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Brett Glass cc: Greg Pavelcak , Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , Dennis Reiter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) In-Reply-To: <199807272300.RAA00688@lariat.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all, Since the secret is out now on freebsd-security .. I have been working on FreeBSD Security How-To for the last few weeks. It is still in beta and I hope to get more comments from people on -security. It is currently at www.best.com/~jkb/howto.txt No kernel hacking -- just basic steps users can take to secure their workstations, server, etc. I'd like any comments, feedback or suggestions from -chat also. (yes, I'll soon have html also for those of you who can't stand ascii). -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." "Write longer sentences - they are paying us a lot of money" On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Brett Glass wrote: >At 06:14 PM 7/27/98 -0400, Greg Pavelcak wrote: > >>> If I were a cracker, the first thing I'd try would be to scan IP >>> ranges known to belong to large ISPs' dialup servers, precisely for >>> that reason (and also because there's a much higher chance of finding >>> machines run by inexperienced or careless people there than amongst >>> permanently connected hosts) >> >>Hmm, major universities for example? (He asks through his UMass >>PPP account.) > >Major universities often have LOTS of holes. Many haven't patched that >Annex server problem, and a few even have *wide open* PPP connections >that anyone can use if he or she knows some basic terminal server >commands. > >All dial-ins should be carefully firewalled against exploits. We use >SLiRP running on FreeBSD, which is highly effective as a protective layer. >(See, we're not such slouches on security, even if our mail server WAS hit >by the QPopper exploit.) > >--Brett > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 16:44:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10324 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:44:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10226 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:43:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA05624; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdGe5616; Mon Jul 27 23:36:15 1998 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:36:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: freebsd-sf@arachna.com cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: My upcoming FreeBSD talk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You should collect N cdroms fro 2.2.6 from jordan and give them to the audience (he was advertising that he had some looking for a good home...) On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > Hello all, > > Those of you who are local (and most people on freebsd-sf are), I > will be giving a talk on building firewalls with FreeBSD at the Internet > Development Group. Of course this is all to promote FreeBSD, hell with > firewalls (kidding). > Talk will be next month in one of Netscape buildings in Mtn. View > on August 18th (Tuesday). > Feel free to put on your FreeBSD t-shirt and stop by to support > your favorite OS. :) > For more info: www.inetdevgrp.org > > -- Yan > > Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want > www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." > "Write longer sentences - they are paying us a lot of money" > > > ........... http://www.arachna.com/freebsd/freebsd-sf.html ............... > --- to unsubscribe "unsubscribe freebsd-sf" to majordomo@arachna.com ---- > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 16:50:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11670 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:50:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11570 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:49:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id QAA17635; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:49:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:49:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Julian Elischer cc: freebsd-sf@arachna.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: My upcoming FreeBSD talk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Already taken care of. Thanks for reminder though. I am going to take about 25 of them with me to the talk. -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." "Write longer sentences - they are paying us a lot of money" On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: >You should collect N cdroms fro 2.2.6 from jordan and give them >to the audience >(he was advertising that he had some looking for a good home...) > > > >On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: > >> >> Hello all, >> >> Those of you who are local (and most people on freebsd-sf are), I >> will be giving a talk on building firewalls with FreeBSD at the Internet >> Development Group. Of course this is all to promote FreeBSD, hell with >> firewalls (kidding). >> Talk will be next month in one of Netscape buildings in Mtn. View >> on August 18th (Tuesday). >> Feel free to put on your FreeBSD t-shirt and stop by to support >> your favorite OS. :) >> For more info: www.inetdevgrp.org >> >> -- Yan >> >> Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want >> www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." >> "Write longer sentences - they are paying us a lot of money" >> >> >> ........... http://www.arachna.com/freebsd/freebsd-sf.html ............... >> --- to unsubscribe "unsubscribe freebsd-sf" to majordomo@arachna.com ---- >> > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 16:55:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12837 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:55:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@[206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12727; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01585; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199807272354.RAA01585@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:22:07 -0600 To: "Jan B. Koum " From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199807272300.RAA00688@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:11 PM 7/27/98 -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > Hello all, > > Since the secret is out now on freebsd-security .. I have been >working on FreeBSD Security How-To for the last few weeks. It is still in >beta and I hope to get more comments from people on -security. > It is currently at www.best.com/~jkb/howto.txt > No kernel hacking -- just basic steps users can take to secure >their workstations, server, etc. I'd like any comments, feedback or >suggestions from -chat also. (yes, I'll soon have html also for those of >you who can't stand ascii). > >-- Yan I'd like to commend Jan on this effort. I do think that the section on eliminating inetd needs some fleshing out, though. Some servers, such as all of the POP3 daemons I've tried, don't seem to admit themselves to being run except from inetd. Also, the section should discuss the dangers of having a server die without any automatic means to resuscitate it. For example, the docs for identd warn against running it without inetd, since if it quits it will not be restarted. Perhaps a utility that checks for the presence of servers and restarts them if they've died could be developed as part of this effort and perhaps added to the FreeBSD distribution. Also, the section on ssh suggests running it without telling the user where to find client software. Any recommendation for a secure service should include information on how to obtain clients for all of the usual client platforms (including -- yes -- Microsoft OSes). --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 27 23:48:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15186 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:48:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA15106 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:47:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.sl.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA20169 ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:44:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA27314; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:44:26 +0200 To: Greg Pavelcak Cc: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , "Jan B. Koum " , Dennis Reiter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: QPopper exploit References: Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 28 Jul 1998 08:44:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: Greg Pavelcak's message of Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Lines: 27 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Pavelcak writes: > Me, for example. But the question is what constitutes "proper > security" for a run-of-the-mill pc-user (well equipped with > FreeBSD as his OS) who only goes on-line to fetch his mail and do > a little surfing. Disable inetd; you don't need anyway unless you have a LAN at home. Disable sendmail. Disable routed (you should do that anyway). Even better, read the ppp(8) man page and set up ppp to block all incoming connections (you'll have to use passive mode ftp and cvsup; the former is trivial, and the latter is explained in the cvsup FAQ) BTW, there's a bunch of docs in /usr/src/usr.sbin/ppp too. > > If I were a cracker, the first thing I'd try would be to scan IP > > ranges known to belong to large ISPs' dialup servers, precisely for > > that reason (and also because there's a much higher chance of finding > > machines run by inexperienced or careless people there than amongst > > permanently connected hosts) > Hmm, major universities for example? (He asks through his UMass > PPP account.) And I answered through my University of Oslo PPP account :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 02:22:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07272 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:22:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (freefall.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07209; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:22:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA322; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:20:21 +0200 Message-ID: <35BD97DE.2E242C6E@pipeline.ch> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:20:30 +0200 From: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass CC: "Jan B. Koum" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) References: <199807272300.RAA00688@lariat.lariat.org> <199807272354.RAA01585@lariat.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: -snip- > I do think that the section on eliminating inetd needs some fleshing out, > though. Some servers, such as all of the POP3 daemons I've tried, don't > seem to admit themselves to being run except from inetd. Also, the section > should discuss the dangers of having a server die without any automatic > means to resuscitate it. For example, the docs for identd warn against > running it without inetd, since if it quits it will not be restarted. > Perhaps a utility that checks for the presence of servers and restarts them > if they've died could be developed as part of this effort and perhaps added > to the FreeBSD distribution. There's a nice tool called tcpserver avail from DJB (we all love his coding style): ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/www/ucspi-tcp.html The description: # tcpclient and tcpserver are easy-to-use command-line tools for building # TCP client-server applications. tcpclient makes a TCP connection and # runs a program of your choice. tcpserver waits for incoming connections # and, for each connection, runs a program of your choice. Your program # receives environment variables showing the local and remote host names, # IP addresses, and port numbers. # # tcpserver offers a concurrency limit to protect you from running out # of processes and memory. When you are handling 40 (by default) # simultaneous connections, tcpserver smoothly defers acceptance of # new connections. # # tcpserver also provides TCP access control features, similar to # tcp-wrappers/tcpd's hosts.allow but much faster. Its access control # rules are compiled into a hashed format with cdb, so it can easily # deal with thousands of different hosts. # # tcpclient and tcpserver conform to UCSPI, the UNIX Client-Server # Program Interface, using the TCP protocol. UCSPI tools are available # for several different networks. -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 03:48:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA17734 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 03:48:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA17724; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 03:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tg@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA11441; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:47:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from tg@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA19506; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:47:38 +0200 (CEST) To: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [nobody@coollist.com] Error From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 28 Jul 1998 12:47:37 +0200 Message-ID: <87yatejlpy.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Huh? Did someone subscribe some of our mailing lists to the wrong address? tg ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 06:42:51 -0400 (EDT) From: nobody@coollist.com Subject: Error To: Thomas Gellekum Message-id: <199807281042.GAA17450@one.astraweb.com> Thank you for your email to asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Unfortunately I could not find such a mailing list or address on my database. Please ensure that the email address is valid. Thank you. ------- End of forwarded message ------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 05:49:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04268 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 05:49:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@COPLAND.CODA.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.222.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA04253; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 05:48:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA12287; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:48:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Brett Glass cc: "Jan B. Koum " , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) In-Reply-To: <199807272354.RAA01585@lariat.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > I'd like to commend Jan on this effort. Yes, I think this is a great thing :) > I do think that the section on eliminating inetd needs some fleshing out, > though. Some servers, such as all of the POP3 daemons I've tried, don't > seem to admit themselves to being run except from inetd. Also, the section > should discuss the dangers of having a server die without any automatic > means to resuscitate it. For example, the docs for identd warn against > running it without inetd, since if it quits it will not be restarted. > Perhaps a utility that checks for the presence of servers and restarts them > if they've died could be developed as part of this effort and perhaps added > to the FreeBSD distribution. I agree with limiting/replacing this inetd, but I am actually not sure I agree with just removing inetd. inetd provides a number of useful services under BSD: 1. Single location to configure the majority of IP services (i.e., a single point of configuration that is easy to maintain and monitor) 2. Single location to install IP wrappers and IP-based access control 3. Single location to monitor for potential denial of service attacks These are all important, I feel. Inetd provides a simple way to monitor which daemons you are running, and disable them easily. Rather than having to modify umpteen rc.* scripts in many directories, I can modify a single file. Simplifying the policy control mechanism is not bad, and it makes it easy for new users of BSD to disable services. Now, instead of finding references in many scripts and config files, I can in 20 seconds comment out all the lines but telnet, ftp, etc. This is not bad. And the format of the inetd configuration file is certainly not bad -- attempting to stuff the same degree of control into rc.conf is only asking for trouble :). With a single HUP, I can enact the new policy, rather than tracking down dozens of processes hanging around. Also, let's not forget the reason for inetd in the first place -- if you have a number of infrequently used TCP services, you experience far lower load and resource consumption via inetd. You are less susceptible to memory leaks (or even just fragmentation), swap space consumption, etc. Most long-lasting heavily hit services regularly kill their component processes to try and address this (for example, many web servers only use particular server processes 64 times before killing them in an effort ot reduce fragmentation and memory leak issues). I would rather reduce the number of long-running daemons and have a centralized point of control. But there are more sides to this (points 2 + 3 of above). inetd allows the use of TCP wrappers via a central administration point. Rather than building by-IP access control into each and every daemon running on the system, using a central TCP wrappers config file makes far more sense. It also means that I can apply varying access control mechanisms to binary-only daemons I may have (commercially available daemons). It also means I don't have to sit there and patch a ported daemon like crazy to use my access control. An example: suppose I have an IPsec FreeBSD router. The FreeBSD router needs to be configured remotely by a mobile host so that we can have mobile IP. I want the machine to allow connections to the telnet, etc, daemons only if it is a secured connection with the correct keying material/etc. Rather than build this into each daemon, I'd really prfer to have it live in TCP wrappers. When the connection comes in, the TCP wrapper makes an authorization decision based on knowing about IPsec, and then if desired, forwards the connection to the telnet daemon. Similarly, wrappers provide a central logging facility. Rather than rely on the far larger and more complex telnetd that is probably more susceptible to programming errors, I want wrappers to securely log the event, and then allow the connection to telnetd. Perhaps also, one might want to run inetd itself chroot, and have all daemons inherit that aspect? The third point is denial of service. With a dozen daemons running independantly, written by a variety of vendors, it might be quite hard to monitor denial of service attacks. With a single daemon multiplexing connections in userland, I can far more easily install a filter watching for application-based denial of service, or resource consumption. I feel that inetd provides a degree of centralization for configuration and security that is more of a benefit than a liability. Certainly, in an environment where *no* daemons are running, inetd is probably a bad idea. The same for high volume daemons like httpd. On the other hand, wouldn't you rather have a small daemon (finger) run as nobody via the benefits of inetd changing the uid, than running fingerd as root so that it can bind the port? > Also, the section on ssh suggests running it without telling the user where > to find client software. Any recommendation for a secure service should > include information on how to obtain clients for all of the usual client > platforms (including -- yes -- Microsoft OSes). I heard there was a free Windows ssh client these days -- I haven't used it as (oops) I don't run any Microsoft operating systems :). SSH is a great tool and we should encourage its use. There are some caveats involving automatic X forwarding (etc) that should be raised. There are already papers on this around so perhaps point to existing documents for details? Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 08:45:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03448 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:45:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@[206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03432; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:45:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15940; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199807281545.JAA15940@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:07:40 -0600 To: Robert Watson From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) Cc: "Jan B. Koum " , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199807272354.RAA01585@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:48 AM 7/28/98 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: >I heard there was a free Windows ssh client these days -- I haven't used >it as (oops) I don't run any Microsoft operating systems :). Anyone know where to get it? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 08:53:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05197 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:53:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atena.eurocontrol.fr (atena.uneec.eurocontrol.fr [147.196.69.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA05158; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:53:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@eurocontrol.fr) Received: from caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr (caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr [147.196.30.193]) by atena.eurocontrol.fr (8.9.1/8.9.1/atena-1.1/nospam) with ESMTP id RAA10553; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:52:58 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from roberto@caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr) Received: by caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr (VMailer, from userid 1193) id D15A43F; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:52:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19980728175257.H19941@caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:52:57 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Windows SSH clients (was: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit)) Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org, security@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Try these: and a pointer to Cygnus GNU-Win32 project. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- Eurocontrol EEC/TS -=- Ollivier.Robert@eurocontrol.fr FreeBSD caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr 3.0-CURRENT #38: Mon Jun 29 16:20:38 CEST 1998 root@caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr:/src/src/sys/compile/CAERDONN i386 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 13:59:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13473 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:59:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ratthing.reef.com (ratthing.REEF.COM [207.212.49.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13272; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:58:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from james@reef.com) Received: from reef.com (lal.REEF.COM [207.212.49.217]) by ratthing.reef.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10972; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35BE3B30.ED223DA3@reef.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:57:20 -0700 From: James Buszard-Welcher Organization: Silicon Reef, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass CC: Robert Watson , "Jan B. Koum" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) References: <199807272354.RAA01585@lariat.lariat.org> <199807281545.JAA15940@lariat.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://fox.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ci2/ssh/ No complaints. Brett Glass wrote: > > At 08:48 AM 7/28/98 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > > >I heard there was a free Windows ssh client these days -- I haven't used > >it as (oops) I don't run any Microsoft operating systems :). > > Anyone know where to get it? > > --Brett -- James Buszard-Welcher | VOX 415.241.2800 | "It's not the stuff... Chief Technology Officer | FAX 415.241.9499 | it's the power to Silicon Reef, Inc. | PGR 800.418.0016 | *MAKE* the stuff." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 14:29:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19538 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:29:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from control.colossus.dyn.ml.org (dburr@206-18-115-54.la.inreach.net [206.18.115.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19475; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:29:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr@colossus.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from dburr@localhost) by control.colossus.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02152; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:27:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Computer Help From: Donald Burr To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The future of the bt848 driver? (FW: cvs commit: CVSROOT avail) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----FW: <199807280929.CAA17979@freefall.freebsd.org>----- Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Poul-Henning Kamp To: cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: cvs commit: CVSROOT avail phk 1998/07/28 02:29:02 PDT Modified files: . avail Log: Amancio Hasty has stepped down as maintainer of the bt848 driver. Revision Changes Path 1.38 +2 -2 CVSROOT/avail --------------End of forwarded message------------------------- It looks like the Amancio vs. soren thing was never resolved, and he just decided to throw in the towel. What does this mean re: the future of the bt848 driver? Will it still be maintained in a reasonable fashion, or will it become yet another piece of rotting software, like the floppy-tape system (ft) for example? Why did it have to come down to this, anyway? (Enquiring minds want to know...) --dburr, who is sad at the possible loss of his favorite piece of computer hardware, the TV tuner card --- Donald Burr *NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!* | PGP: Your WWW HomePage: http://DonaldBurr.base.org/ ICQ #1347455 | right to Address: P.O. Box 91212, Santa Barbara, CA 93190-1212 | 'Net privacy. Phone: (805) 957-9666 FAX: (800) 492-5954 | USE IT. >>FreeBSD - Turning PCs into Workstations - http://www.freebsd.org/<< To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 15:43:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07375 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:43:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07265 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paulg@interlog.com) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (paulg@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA08425 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:41:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Griffith To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Open source rules! (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Take a look at the url below from SunWorld Paul Griffith - paulg@interlog.com -------- Dear SunWorld Subscriber: The results of our wildly popular open source reader survey are now up, and you may want to show them to your manager. They show that the idea that large corporations won't run free software is largely a myth. Open source code is being used in almost every imaginable work environment: small business, the enterprise, NT shops, Solaris. Find out what more than 4,000 SunWorld readers had to say about what open source software means to them. http://www.sunworld.com/swol-07-1998/swol-07-readersurvey.html?072898a To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 18:28:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06388 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:28:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite.sentex.ca [199.212.134.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06307 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:27:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from ospf-mdt.sentex.net (ospf-mdt.sentex.net [205.211.164.81]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA15731 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:26:55 -0400 (EDT) From: mike@sentex.net (Mike Tancsa) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: QPopper exploit Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:24:55 GMT Message-ID: <35be78f0.278958611@mail.sentex.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99e/32.227 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27 Jul 1998 22:24:39 +0200, in sentex.lists.freebsd.misc you wrote: >If I were a cracker, the first thing I'd try would be to scan IP >ranges known to belong to large ISPs' dialup servers, precisely for >that reason (and also because there's a much higher chance of finding >machines run by inexperienced or careless people there than amongst >permanently connected hosts) I see on a daily basis whole scale spoofing attempts on our dialup IPs directed at the NetBEUI ports... I guess winnuke attempts... Not to mention the odd smurf attempt, ping flood etc... Its rather discouraging at times to see this level of activity :-( I could only guess how often more 'popular' targets get attacked. We are only a 6000 user ISP. Imagine how much AOL and Microsoft must see. ---Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 20:31:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27948 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:31:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nexus.astro.psu.edu (nexus.astro.psu.edu [128.118.147.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA27931 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:31:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@astro.psu.edu) Received: from mstar.astro.psu.edu by nexus.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Nexus-1.3) id AA23284; Tue, 28 Jul 98 23:30:35 EDT Received: by mstar.astro.psu.edu (SMI-8.6/Client-1.3) id XAA11846; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:30:30 -0400 Message-Id: <19980728233030.A11762@astro.psu.edu> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:30:30 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Doug White Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CVSUP - which sources ?? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug White on Tue, Jul 28, 1998 at 11:51:23AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 28, 1998 at 11:51:23AM -0700, Doug White wrote in freebsd-questions: > > But, what is in secure that I would want? > > DES. My first thought was that Dag-Erling had posted a message and forgot the content... -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property of matter. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 21:20:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04209 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04161 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:20:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15257; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:19:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <35BEA2E3.9EFB8C9F@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:19:47 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Tancsa CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: QPopper exploit References: <35be78f0.278958611@mail.sentex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Tancsa wrote: > I could only guess how often more 'popular' targets get attacked. We > are only a 6000 user ISP. Imagine how much AOL and Microsoft must > see. Not very much, inside the firewall. >From my former office at Intel, I had 13 hops to the "outside world", through two firewalls that *I knew of.* Now, between either of my workstations at Xylan (one Sun, one FreeBSD for doing *REAL* work ;^), there is only one firewall, but all of the internal traffic flows over switched networks using VLANs, so we don't need quite so much firewalling. One quick, fast, reliable way to protect yourself is to put your router/firewall to the outside world onto a switch port on a smart switch; the router/firewall won't see *most* of the internal, unicast traffic, and therefore cannot be used to snoop any of that. It helps with speed, too. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 21:45:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07384 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:45:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from brooklyn.slack.net (root@brooklyn.slack.net [206.41.21.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07364; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:45:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrewr@brooklyn.slack.net) Received: from localhost (andrewr@localhost) by brooklyn.slack.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA26043; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:51:25 -0400 (EDT) From: andrewr To: Brett Glass cc: Robert Watson , "Jan B. Koum " , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) In-Reply-To: <199807281545.JAA15940@lariat.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > At 08:48 AM 7/28/98 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > > >I heard there was a free Windows ssh client these days -- I haven't used > >it as (oops) I don't run any Microsoft operating systems :). > > Anyone know where to get it? > > --Brett For a 30 day trial copy, go to www.datafellows.com and hed to their download section. You can get a m$ copy of ssh client there. Andrew > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe security" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 28 21:48:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07798 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:48:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coal.sentex.ca (coal.sentex.ca [209.112.4.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07776 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:48:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from gravel (ospf-mdt.sentex.net [205.211.164.81]) by coal.sentex.ca (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA00858; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:47:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980729004535.01453880@sentex.net> X-Sender: mdtancsa@sentex.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:45:35 -0400 To: Wes Peters From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: QPopper exploit Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <35BEA2E3.9EFB8C9F@softweyr.com> References: <35be78f0.278958611@mail.sentex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:19 PM 7/28/98 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: >Mike Tancsa wrote: > >> I could only guess how often more 'popular' targets get attacked. We >> are only a 6000 user ISP. Imagine how much AOL and Microsoft must >> see. > >Not very much, inside the firewall. I would imagine this is the case (i.e. not many sucessful attempts), but I was lamenting the fact that there are so many constant attempts... On our router we block all spoofing attempts, hence I have a daily log of all this and other unwanted activity. Even such lamo things as people trying to telnet in and login as root on our various boxes trying to guess at the root password!! A few postings ago on bugtraq I recall reading about some poor sole who went away on vaccation when the exploit started making its rounds. He came back only to find his entire network compromised. If the bug surfaced a week later, this would have happened to me :-( I mean, within hours of the canned script being released through a few channels, I was seeing evidence of attempted exploits in my popper logs from all over the globe. > >One quick, fast, reliable way to protect yourself is to put your >router/firewall to the outside world onto a switch port on a >smart switch; the router/firewall won't see *most* of the internal, >unicast traffic, and therefore cannot be used to snoop any of that. Or, on the inexpensive, private physical ethernet segments behind FreeBSD boxes will do the trick as well. Those smart switches are still fairly pricy compared to surplus 486s, a few ne2000s running FreeBSD, ipfw / natd. Our most critical stuff is 2 physical segments away from our users, and 3 segments from the outside world. ---Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Tancsa, tel 01.519.651.3400 Network Administrator, noc@sentex.net Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 4.5 mQBtAzKwTS0AAAEDALi0NQZ5tWIOfvZKfyw47FFH9ESx1A6fcbaGNx5/7kEMq7W3 9TkqGc+U+HLQeUXWUs5PaZB192NlfhVRh0CRQ9qrFi63MxjABfjmqFmKw7LnQrKB FzlRp4Ia49SiLxisHQAFEbQhTWlrZSBUYW5jc2EgPG1kdGFuY3NhQHNlbnRleC5u ZXQ+iQCVAwUQMzax0pFhiHfT1VK1AQFf2QP+Mku8SvpV21diTMe6FHFqri1otKh7 PTFa8wT4dAabwv/Gs2eziZDwAoKSr4dfi0bhI2glkHbiAW6JFYV2cXMn3s6qOqMn 1XCnVApLKN6kTQCRQEj9C17+iiwdGg4IosBCWsq/FvQHxlDL/Cn+DDAMf+caqJy1 0ZydEY54Ly3UrdGJAJUCBRAzFRZMYjQTjArUYHsBAQfUBACGPBwAkyOawWnnAMbh 2DmYIehp0cnCkEM6DftuGZb2hhGfxoD+/RBGgYtmwwoEv68zPKN9OOtZZoPN/Xwi C6EshITipQinVb2ChQDoyb4es109e9GvyHQQBw7uO9x7xvIFQPUKcvhh5tZ5TvV9 r62ebg3CNwNhZHSI5hBvF+oqrA== =EjUL -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 02:03:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA16334 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:03:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA16329 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:03:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id CAA14292 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:03:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:02:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Defcon Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok, who is going? I am flying in on Thursday night and staying in Monte Carlo 'til Sunday night. I know there are some FreeBSD activities planned by a few other folks, there already be FreeBSD representation. -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." "Write longer sentences - they are paying us a lot of money" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 03:42:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28044 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 03:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA28038 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.sl.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA08052 ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:40:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA29587; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:40:29 +0200 To: Matthew Hunt Cc: Doug White , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CVSUP - which sources ?? References: <19980728233030.A11762@astro.psu.edu> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 29 Jul 1998 12:40:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: Matthew Hunt's message of Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:30:30 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 18 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Hunt writes: > On Tue, Jul 28, 1998 at 11:51:23AM -0700, Doug White wrote in > freebsd-questions: > > > But, what is in secure that I would want? > > DES. > My first thought was that Dag-Erling had posted a message and > forgot the content... ROTFL :) To be honest, it happens to me too. I wonder what would happen if I went to the US and tried to leave carrying a floppy or CD-ROM with my initials scribbled on it. DES (no, not *that* DES) -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 05:46:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16272 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:46:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hosting.doublesquare.com (hosting.doublesquare.com [195.5.128.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA16262; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:46:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ark@eltex.ru) From: ark@eltex.ru Received: from eltex.ru (eltax-spiiras.nw.ru [195.19.204.46] (may be forged)) by hosting.doublesquare.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03633; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:07:31 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ark@eltex.ru) Received: from paranoid.eltex.spb.ru (border.eltex.ru [195.19.198.2]) by eltex.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27075; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:45:33 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ark@eltex.ru) Received: (from ark@localhost) by paranoid.eltex.spb.ru (8.8.8/8.7.3) id NAA13679; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:03:44 GMT Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:03:44 GMT Message-Id: <199807291303.NAA13679@paranoid.eltex.spb.ru> Organization: "Klingon Imperial Intelligence Service" Subject: Re: Windows SSH clients (was: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) To: roberto@eurocontrol.fr Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- nuqneH, btw does anybody know a 'doze ssh client that does support options like TISAuthentication? _ _ _ _ _ _ _ {::} {::} {::} CU in Hell _| o |_ | | _|| | / _||_| |_ |_ |_ (##) (##) (##) /Arkan#iD |_ o _||_| _||_| / _| | o |_||_||_| [||] [||] [||] Do i believe in Bible? Hell,man,i've seen one! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNb8dr6H/mIJW9LeBAQFhKQP/WwZp1nK6q4nfK4DFTAxc6dAxYs6+ZG8g vf95VebQwxAn/fkJS+O/vanMskeBCLYGLXKhmZ9tXjez1958wQ/m8AhsJ982q8e6 s9tVcCOKbvD8jahPdRGgE4qS/7g2mM114tbw+4RzW0nNKH9FQKOtxeIbogXukK2O qf6kdHMTk0M= =sRKE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 07:07:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00857 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:07:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postal.accessus.net (root@postal.accessus.net [204.248.93.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA00852 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:07:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mcneills@accessus.net) Received: from mcneills (kew1-211.dialup.accessus.net [207.206.182.211]) by postal.accessus.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA28946; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:06:35 -0500 Received: by mcneills (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:05:44 -0500 Message-ID: <005701bdbaf9$bc451930$0200a8c0@Dell> Reply-To: "Dennis Reiter" From: "Dennis Reiter" To: "Jan B Koum" Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:03:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.2038.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2039.0 X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.5 Unregistered Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jan, Thanks a million, the paper looks great. I'm busy implementing everything in it. Like usual, the more I learn, the more I find I still have to learn. Regards, Denny Reiter denny@kewanee.net ------------------------------------------ FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info -----Original Message----- From: Jan B Koum > > Hello all, > > Since the secret is out now on freebsd-security .. I have been >working on FreeBSD Security How-To for the last few weeks. It is still in >beta and I hope to get more comments from people on -security. > It is currently at www.best.com/~jkb/howto.txt > No kernel hacking -- just basic steps users can take to secure >their workstations, server, etc. I'd like any comments, feedback or >suggestions from -chat also. (yes, I'll soon have html also for those of >you who can't stand ascii). > >-- Yan > >Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want >www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." >"Write longer sentences - they are paying us a lot of money" > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 08:33:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14368 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:33:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14351; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:33:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27889; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:32:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA26878; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:32:23 -0600 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:32:23 -0600 Message-Id: <199807291532.JAA26878@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: andrewr Cc: Brett Glass , Robert Watson , "Jan B. Koum " , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) In-Reply-To: References: <199807281545.JAA15940@lariat.lariat.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > >I heard there was a free Windows ssh client these days -- I haven't used > > >it as (oops) I don't run any Microsoft operating systems :). > > > > Anyone know where to get it? > > For a 30 day trial copy, go to www.datafellows.com and hed to their > download section. You can get a m$ copy of ssh client there. We bought a half dozen of these, and all I can say is they're buggier than snot. Compression doesn't work if turned on, it hogs all the CPU on the machine (but does nothing) much of the time, and crashes the box occasionally. Their M$ product is *NOT* recommended. (Although they're unix client is just a regular SSH client with some additional patches...) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 09:14:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23762 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:14:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postal.accessus.net (root@postal.accessus.net [204.248.93.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23714; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mcneills@accessus.net) Received: from mcneills (kew1-219.dialup.accessus.net [207.206.182.219]) by postal.accessus.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA19476; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:11:59 -0500 Received: by mcneills (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:15:12 -0500 Message-ID: <001201bdbb0b$d25a2780$0200a8c0@Dell> Reply-To: "Dennis Reiter" From: "Dennis Reiter" To: , Cc: , Subject: Re: Windows SSH clients (was: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit)QPopper exploit) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:13:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.2038.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2039.0 X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.5 Unregistered Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://public.srce.hr/~cigaly/ssh It's a free SSH Windoze client (Cedomir Igaly's) and I believe it has some support for TIS. Regards, Denny Reiter denny@kewanee.net ------------------------------------------ FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info -----Original Message----- From: ark@eltex.ru To: roberto@eurocontrol.fr Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG ; security@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 7:46 AM Subject: Re: Windows SSH clients (was: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit)QPopper exploit) >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >nuqneH, > >btw does anybody know a 'doze ssh client that does support options like >TISAuthentication? > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > {::} {::} {::} CU in Hell _| o |_ | | _|| | / _||_| |_ |_ |_ > (##) (##) (##) /Arkan#iD |_ o _||_| _||_| / _| | o |_||_||_| > [||] [||] [||] Do i believe in Bible? Hell,man,i've seen one! > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 09:33:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28271 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@COPLAND.CODA.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.222.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28250; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:33:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA16762; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:32:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Nate Williams cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) In-Reply-To: <199807291532.JAA26878@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (CC list trimmed a little) On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > > >I heard there was a free Windows ssh client these days -- I haven't used > > > >it as (oops) I don't run any Microsoft operating systems :). > > > > > > Anyone know where to get it? > > > > For a 30 day trial copy, go to www.datafellows.com and hed to their > > download section. You can get a m$ copy of ssh client there. > > We bought a half dozen of these, and all I can say is they're buggier > than snot. Compression doesn't work if turned on, it hogs all the CPU > on the machine (but does nothing) much of the time, and crashes the box > occasionally. > > Their M$ product is *NOT* recommended. (Although they're unix client is > just a regular SSH client with some additional patches...) I was very disappointed with DataFellows and that particular product -- I was hoping for something that performed far better. The tunneling works and so on, but the connections occasionally flake out, and the cpu for tunneling anything useful (like Exceed with X windows) is bad. Also, the Windows product (last I checked -- 1.0?) doesn't make use of the RSA authentication forwarding agent stuff -- you can do RSA authentication to the first host you connect to, but it doesn't forward. There is also no way to use the kerberos ssh support with the windows client. The terminal emulation is pretty buggy. Someone posted locations to look at free ones -- I haven't tried any of the free windows ssh clients, but I don't imagine they are much worse :). Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 10:37:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09405 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:37:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09390 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:37:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 2793 invoked by uid 1001); 29 Jul 1998 17:37:18 +0000 (GMT) To: nate@mt.sri.com Cc: andrewr@slack.net, brett@lariat.org, robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org, jkb@best.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:32:23 -0600" References: <199807291532.JAA26878@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:37:18 +0200 Message-ID: <2791.901733838@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > For a 30 day trial copy, go to www.datafellows.com and hed to their > > download section. You can get a m$ copy of ssh client there. > > We bought a half dozen of these, and all I can say is they're buggier > than snot. Compression doesn't work if turned on, it hogs all the CPU > on the machine (but does nothing) much of the time, and crashes the box > occasionally. Different experiences, evidently. We have several users here who use the Windows version all the time, and they seem happy enough. Tunnelling pop3 through ssh works on the windows client too... (Note that I don't use the Windows version myself - though I've been using the free Unix version basically from day 1.) Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 11:05:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16926 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:05:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16894; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:05:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA24986; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:04:46 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199807291532.JAA26878@mt.sri.com> References: <199807281545.JAA15940@lariat.lariat.org> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:08:41 -0400 To: Nate Williams , andrewr From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: ssh clients available for other platforms Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> For a 30 day trial copy, go to www.datafellows.com and hed to their >> download section. You can get a m$ copy of ssh client there. > > We bought a half dozen of these, and all I can say is they're buggier > than snot. Compression doesn't work if turned on, it hogs all the CPU > on the machine (but does nothing) much of the time, and crashes the box > occasionally. > > Their M$ product is *NOT* recommended. For what it's worth, I have been using their ssh client for MacOS, and it works pretty well. It does not seem buggy, although the app is not as featureful as standard *telnet* clients (things like BetterTelnet or Versaterm). It even seems to work pretty well with MacX, which is very nice. Still, once BetterTelnet has ssh support, I'd probably tend to use that instead of the F-Secure (datafellows) product. Sorry about yet-another thread topic on this tangent to the FreeBSD security how-to. I think that How-To deserves more kudos than the datafellows ssh client (particularly on freebsd mailing lists!), but it just seemed appropriate to mention that I've had much better luck with their MacOS product than people have apparently had with their Windows-based product. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 11:28:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24257 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:28:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from brooklyn.slack.net (root@brooklyn.slack.net [206.41.21.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24144; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:28:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrewr@brooklyn.slack.net) Received: from localhost (andrewr@localhost) by brooklyn.slack.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25896; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:34:03 -0400 (EDT) From: andrewr To: Garance A Drosihn cc: Nate Williams , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ssh clients available for other platforms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok This thread must stop! No more Windows speak! Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 11:53:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00461 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:53:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00216; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:52:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id OAA20471; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:51:31 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Nate Williams cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, phk@FreeBSD.ORG, sos@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Conspiracy Theories (Was: Re: The future of the bt848 driver? (FW: cvs commit: CVSROOT avail) ) In-Reply-To: <199807291837.MAA28435@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > [ Reduced the CC list way down ] Subject changed and moved to -chat, since its unrelated to -multimedia... > No kidding. I should have kept my mouth shut in the first place, but my > intent wasn't to slam core, or the core members in general. My intent > was to state my take on what happended with Amancio. Lord nows I've had > my beefs with him (I've got email to prove it..), but I don't like the > attitude that I perceive a few core members portray. I normally wouldn't have poked my head up here, since I imagine there is alot more at play then we see "in public", but from what we do see "in public", there appears to be a problem that needs to be addressed... > Heck, if I were to venture a guess, I'd say that John left because he > couldn't work with the other members of core, for whatever reason. Right now, that is what I'm seeing also :( How many ppl *are* on core? Is it an over-bloated 'elitist' club that needs to be trim'd down? Some companies out there have 1 president and a dozen VPs, when they only need half a dozen VPs to run smoother... > That's a good reason to leave the core (it was mine), and I've never > regretted it. I took a different tact than John though, and I'm still > involved in FreeBSD and make changes (much to the chagrin of certain > folks), but I don't try and let it bother me. But, because I'm not a > core member neither do I have the responisibility of *having* to do > work on FreeBSD, so I can go fishing whenever I feel like it, including > just before and during a release. :) Since I've started using FreeBSD, and been a member of these lists, the names that stick out, some possibly erroneously associated: Jordan: head honcho/businessman/hacker/jack of all trades Amancio: Multimedia guru John Dyson: VM god You: Networking Those four are generally whom I take a minute to read postings from, even if the subject doesn't look like it would interest me. There is David out there, and Bruce, and several others that catch my eye as well, but those four, if they post, I can generally get a feel as to what they are going to be talking about. Who *is* on core? What do they bring to the project to earn them that 'status'? Is there somewhere where this is clearly posted? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 12:08:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04940 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:08:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04870 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:08:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA29750; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA28684; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:03 -0600 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:03 -0600 Message-Id: <199807291908.NAA28684@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The future of the bt848 driver? (FW: cvs commit: CVSROOT avail) In-Reply-To: <14761.901738797@time.cdrom.com> References: <199807291743.TAA08715@bowtie.nl> <14761.901738797@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Conspiracy theories abound... ] > fault, and meanwhile you're reading the whole exchange and thinking > "man, I'd just as soon shoot *all* of you at this point since I can't > see anyone making an even halfway decent attempt to be reasonable or > even mature about all this." Does the phrase 'herding cats' ring any bells? I think the reason you do so well at this is because you're so experienced with them. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 12:10:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05347 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:10:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.133.1] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05230; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:09:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00673; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:05:20 +0200 (CEST) To: The Hermit Hacker cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, sos@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Conspiracy Theories (Was: Re: The future of the bt848 driver? (FW: cvs commit: CVSROOT avail) ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:51:31 EDT." Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:05:20 +0200 Message-ID: <671.901739120@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Since I've started using FreeBSD, and been a member of these >lists, the names that stick out, some possibly erroneously associated: > > Jordan: head honcho/businessman/hacker/jack of all trades > Amancio: Multimedia guru > John Dyson: VM god > You: Networking > Who *is* on core? What do they bring to the project to earn them >that 'status'? Is there somewhere where this is clearly posted? You can see the list of the core team in the handbook. They bring overall political and architectural steeing to the project. We have earned the status by having earned it in the eyes of the core team that invited us to join. Amancio was asked not to let his personal differences with sos get in front of his role as maintainer, got pissed off by this and left. The only reason he ever got commit bit was to maintain that very driver, since he has stomped away, his bit gets cleared. John Dyson went out a tangent and lost all contact with the core team, some will even say he went "balistic", in either case, he attained escape velocity, and that is the end of that story. As we say in Denmark: "If you don't like the smell in the bakery, you'd better leave". Nate (finally) did that, helped a little on the way to make sure he didn't take the wrong door, and now he likes to shout obsenities in through the window every now and then. I'm sorry guys, there is so much code to hack out there so can we please stop this "promise keepers convention" and get on with the real things in life. At the very least, please leave my name out of the CC list, I have more important things to do than to read/delete this silly thread. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 12:12:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05959 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:12:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05861 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:12:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA29774; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:11:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA28709; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:11:50 -0600 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:11:50 -0600 Message-Id: <199807291911.NAA28709@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Conspiracy Theories (Was: Re: The future of the bt848 driver? (FW: cvs commit: CVSROOT avail) ) In-Reply-To: References: <199807291837.MAA28435@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Heck, if I were to venture a guess, I'd say that John left because he > > couldn't work with the other members of core, for whatever reason. > > Right now, that is what I'm seeing also :( How many ppl *are* on > core? Is it an over-bloated 'elitist' club that needs to be trim'd > down? Quite the opposite. I think it needs to be gone through and people who are helping should be given a berth, and people who don't have time anymore should be asked to step down. IMO, being a 'core' member is a not a life-time appointment. But, that's just my opinion, which with a dollar will by you coffee. :) > Since I've started using FreeBSD, and been a member of these > lists, the names that stick out, some possibly erroneously associated: > > Jordan: head honcho/businessman/hacker/jack of all trades > Amancio: Multimedia guru > John Dyson: VM god > You: Networking *Phhft* Me, I just dink around with whatever I find interesting. Bill Fenner is the networking guru, and Garrett is the one providing future direction. The only thing I do is cause trouble, just ask Jordan. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 12:17:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07447 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:17:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07425 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:17:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA22151; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:12:16 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Conspiracy Theories (Was: Re: The future of the bt848 driver? (FW: cvs commit: CVSROOT avail) ) In-Reply-To: <671.901739120@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > Since I've started using FreeBSD, and been a member of these > >lists, the names that stick out, some possibly erroneously associated: > > > > Jordan: head honcho/businessman/hacker/jack of all trades > > Amancio: Multimedia guru > > John Dyson: VM god > > You: Networking > > > Who *is* on core? What do they bring to the project to earn them > >that 'status'? Is there somewhere where this is clearly posted? > > You can see the list of the core team in the handbook. > > They bring overall political and architectural steeing to the project. > > We have earned the status by having earned it in the eyes of the core > team that invited us to join. > > Amancio was asked not to let his personal differences with sos get > in front of his role as maintainer, got pissed off by this and left. > > The only reason he ever got commit bit was to maintain that very > driver, since he has stomped away, his bit gets cleared. > > John Dyson went out a tangent and lost all contact with the core > team, some will even say he went "balistic", in either case, he > attained escape velocity, and that is the end of that story. Thank you Poul-Henning...this is probably the best response on this thread that I have seen yet...clear, concise, and, I think, more information on the Dyson issue then I've seen yet... I'll shut up now :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 12:17:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07448 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:17:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07433 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14840; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:15:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Nate Williams cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The future of the bt848 driver? (FW: cvs commit: CVSROOT avail) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:03 MDT." <199807291908.NAA28684@mt.sri.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:15:19 -0700 Message-ID: <14835.901739719@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On the whole, I think cleaning a cat box has more attraction though. :) > [ Conspiracy theories abound... ] > > > fault, and meanwhile you're reading the whole exchange and thinking > > "man, I'd just as soon shoot *all* of you at this point since I can't > > see anyone making an even halfway decent attempt to be reasonable or > > even mature about all this." > > Does the phrase 'herding cats' ring any bells? I think the reason you > do so well at this is because you're so experienced with them. :) > > > Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 14:10:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00196 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:10:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server.computeralt.com (server.computeralt.com [207.41.29.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29984; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:09:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@computeralt.com) Received: from scott (scott.computeralt.com [207.41.29.100]) by server.computeralt.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA10511; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199807292109.RAA10511@server.computeralt.com> X-Sender: scott@mail.computeralt.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.31 (Beta) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:09:09 -0400 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Scott I. Remick" Subject: Linux publicity Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Let me begin with some headlines: ---------------------------- Linux moves up: Database leaders lend credibility http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?980725.whlinuxsupport.htm Linux is gaining ground, but it still has miles to go in corporate America http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayNew.pl?/tebbe/tebbe.htm With each new deal, Linux gains strength http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayNew.pl?/vizard/vizard.htm Database Vendors, Netscape support Linux http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_display/0,3440,339810,00.html Microsoft vs. Linux: Code-to-code combat http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/opinion/0727/27wide.html Oracle to port database to Linux http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/pcwk/1530/338330.html Informix Turns Corner http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/pcwk/1530/339265.html ---------------------------- Linux is getting a TON of front-page publicity and support lately. And so... where's FreeBSD in all this? Some of Linux's advertised weaknesses ("It's good, but...") are FreeBSD's strengths. The articles would read a lot differently if it were FreeBSD being talked about instead, and imagine if FreeBSD started getting all that publicity... For example, Michael Vizard says "The only things Linux still lacks are a sophisticated set of installation routines and the support from a large service organization." Well, FreeBSD has an EXCELLENT installation routine imho, and has a much better organized team, support and beyond. I think FreeBSD's PR team needs to send some emails, make some calls, and start kicking some major butt ;) (I don't subscribe to these lists (I get too many others already) but I'd appreciated if responses were cc:'ed to me so I could follow. Thanks!) ----------------------- Scott I. Remick (MCP, A+, HP) mailto:scott@computeralt.com Network and Information Systems (802)388-7545 FAX:(802)388-3697 Computer Alternatives, Inc. http://www.computeralt.com Theater is life. Television is furniture. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 15:20:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12885 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:20:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12797; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:20:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pechter@shell.monmouth.com) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23567; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:19:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199807292219.SAA23567@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: FreeBSD advocacy To: scott@computeralt.com (Scott I. Remick) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:19:20 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199807292109.RAA10511@server.computeralt.com> from "Scott I. Remick" at Jul 29, 98 05:09:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Scott I. Remic wrote: > Linux is getting a TON of front-page publicity and support lately. And > so... where's FreeBSD in all this? Some of Linux's advertised weaknesses > ("It's good, but...") are FreeBSD's strengths. The articles would read a > lot differently if it were FreeBSD being talked about instead, and imagine > if FreeBSD started getting all that publicity... Agreed. However we haven't yet got critical mass. Linux has lots of different CD vendors, distributions and partisons. We've got the best -- the FreeBSD crew, Walnut Creek and a great set of mailing lists, support folk on the net that KNOW UNIX. However, Linux has an evangelical bunch of GNUites that are pushing hard for their "GPL'd everything" mindset. There's also Caldera and Red Hat offering "PAID SUPPORT" which counts in the business market. (Read that as someone to blame, sue and fight if something does not work as advertised). We just need ONE vendor (Netscape, Real Networks, Oracle, Informix, Bru, Sybase, TriTeal, Lotus, IBM, Corel) to put FreeBSD up into the "officially supported release" category and we move up the notch into the REAL Competition. I would love to see a supported CDE for FreeBSD. A Wabi would be great. I wonder if Caldera ever made back the investment with Sun... I've got Moo-tiff. That's about all that I found for FreeBSD two years ago. BTW -- it's selling cheap at InfoMagic since the Linux one seems to be the only supported Moo-tiff version. > > For example, Michael Vizard says "The only things Linux still lacks are a > sophisticated set of installation routines and the support from a large > service organization." Well, FreeBSD has an EXCELLENT installation routine > imho, and has a much better organized team, support and beyond. Geez. I cursed the Red Hat 5.0 install last week. I've been loading Linux since SLS and I hadn't seen a Linux install I prefer to sysinstall. The last BSD installation that didn't work out of the box on my hardware was 2.0. > > I think FreeBSD's PR team needs to send some emails, make some calls, and > start kicking some major butt ;) > > (I don't subscribe to these lists (I get too many others already) but I'd > appreciated if responses were cc:'ed to me so I could follow. Thanks!) I've been waiting to see just one name vendor go FreeBSD. I really think a common binary and installer for Free/Net/OpenBSD might work if we could unify enough to get this done in the name of commercial apps. We'd have to lock down this format to NOT change, though. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 15:57:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21262 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21226; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:56:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01344; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807292254.PAA01344@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter cc: scott@computeralt.com (Scott I. Remick), freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD advocacy In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:19:20 EDT." <199807292219.SAA23567@shell.monmouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:54:07 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > We just need ONE vendor (Netscape, Real Networks, Oracle, Informix, > Bru, Sybase, TriTeal, Lotus, IBM, Corel) to put FreeBSD up > into the "officially supported release" category and we move up the > notch into the REAL Competition. Hmm, we don't count as "supported" for Netscape? As for EST, we're deploying BRU on the FreeBSD cluster, which we bought over the phone from a generic software vendor. > I would love to see a supported CDE for FreeBSD. There was one. It sold 3 copies. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 17:03:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07297 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:03:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [207.126.97.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07290; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:03:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10878; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:03:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199807300003.RAA10878@kithrup.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Subject: Dr Dobb's Journal, September 1998 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Once again, there is a FreeBSD-related article in DDJ, this time about the design and implementation of select() and poll(). (The code in the article has not yet been checked in, because a slew of problems has conspired to prevent me from installing -current on a usable machine. Bah.) It's not, I think, as good as the first article (which was about adding truss to FreeBSD via procfs), but it is a follow-on. Anyone who finds it useful can thank Nate, who asked me, one day, just how select() worked and inspired me to spend a few hours digging around the code :). Now a rant, a challenge, and some bragging. DDJ paid me $850 for the article, same as the first one. However, with the first one, Walnut Creek CD-ROM provided me with matching funds, which meant that time I spent on the article was actually quite well-paid. It did, in fact, end up paying for my new server (minus tape drive, which was an unexpected expense anyway). But I was, Jordan says, the only person who took advantage of this -- and so it was discontinued (which I did not find out until after I asked when I'd be getting the money from WC 8-)). Had some of you other bright and verbose people (yes, Terry, I mean *you*) written down some of the diatribes (or short novels, in Terry's case), I would be able to buy a luxury this time, instead of simply paying off the credit card debt I acquired due to some emergency hardware purchases. (Yes, I can turn any issue into being about *me*. It's a gift. :)) Look, people: writing an article is not hard. The hard part is coming up with an idea in the first place; I was lucky in that I'd had this idea for a Usenix paper for about four years (truss via procfs), and, on seeing Jordan's matching offer announcement, decided to change the tone slightly, and sell it, instead of presenting it at a conference. For example, here are a few ideas that are probably sellable, to either DDJ or, say, The Linux Journal: Using the MBone Using PostgreSQL Web server design, optimization, and setup News server "" Security concerns with FreeBSD, including using it as a firewall in a predominantly Windows environment All of those, except for the PostgreSQL one, are just off the top of my head. Most of them don't even require a lot of code to be written, and the length of an article is fairly short -- the one in the current DDJ was 443 lines (not counting code) when I submitted it, and they edited it down a bit. And if anyone does want to write an article, I'll offer some help with it (including bouncing ideas off of me and reading the article and offering suggestions). To get that going... if you've got experience with SQL and any of the available databases that use it, the editor I deal with at DDJ is possibly interested in an article. And since there are always security concerns with Win95 and WinNT, that's *always* a good topic. For a few hours worth of work, it's a chance at a few hundred dollars, and the ability to get your name in print around the world. This, by the way, can be a very nice addition to a resume. Linux has enough people writing articles to devote an entire MAGAZINE to -- surely we can come up with a few articles a year? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 18:15:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00606 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:15:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00597 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:15:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-59.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.59]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA20471 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:15:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA10379 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:15:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199807300115.UAA10379@nospam.hiwaay.net> To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: htm vs html From: David Kelly Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:15:37 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ugh! Just noticed http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/freebsd.htm. OhMyGawd! h-t-m, has somebody gone over to the dark side of the window? Then tried same with html and got a different page. What's up? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 19:29:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12397 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:29:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flarn.dyn.ml.org (usr314.third-wave.com [147.72.122.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12388 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:29:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@flarn.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from mph@localhost) by flarn.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21463; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:28:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980729222850.A21438@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:28:50 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Doug White Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: beanie babies, References: <000701bdbb38$c601a080$29a78ecf@pk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug White on Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 04:41:55PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 04:41:55PM -0700, Doug White wrote: > Excuse me for asking, but what does Ty have to do with FreeBSD, a > UNIX-style operating system for PCs? Both FreeBSD and Beanie Babies exhibit remarkable stability. I have placed Beanie Babies on chair arms and similar thin platforms, and they remain perched indefinitely due to their flexibility. FreeBSD, however, offers a better price/performance ratio (being free) and its security features make it less likely to be rendered useless by nearby cats. On the other hand, cute girls don't stop to admire your cuddly rack-mount server. Perhaps a plush daemon would eliminate this Beanie Babie advantage. Hope this helps. -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property of matter. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 29 23:15:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09528 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:15:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tversu.ru (mail.tversu.ru [62.76.80.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09514; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vadim@gala.tversu.ru) Received: from gala.tversu.ru (vadim@gala.tversu.ru [62.76.80.10]) by tversu.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26280; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:14:02 +0400 (MSD) Received: (from vadim@localhost) by gala.tversu.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10095; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:13:59 +0400 (MSD) Message-ID: <19980730101358.A10071@tversu.ru> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:13:58 +0400 From: Vadim Kolontsov To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows SSH clients (was: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit)) References: <19980728175257.H19941@caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <19980728175257.H19941@caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Tue, Jul 28, 1998 at 05:52:57PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Presonally I like TeraTerm with ssh-extension: TTSSH http://www.zip.com.au/~roca/ttssh.html Regards, V. -- Vadim Kolontsov Tver Internet Center NOC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 00:20:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19716 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:20:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19704 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:20:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA25367 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:50:52 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA07804; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:50:45 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980730165045.A7716@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:50:45 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dr Dobb's Journal, September 1998 References: <199807300003.RAA10878@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199807300003.RAA10878@kithrup.com>; from Sean Eric Fagan on Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 05:03:25PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (trimmed -hackers; I don't want to upset Jordan :-) On Wednesday, 29 July 1998 at 17:03:25 -0700, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > Once again, there is a FreeBSD-related article in DDJ, ... > > Now a rant, a challenge, and some bragging. > > ... > > Look, people: writing an article is not hard. The hard part is coming up > with an idea in the first place; I was lucky in that I'd had this idea for a > Usenix paper for about four years (truss via procfs), and, on seeing Jordan's > matching offer announcement, decided to change the tone slightly, and sell it, > instead of presenting it at a conference. OK. I'm game. I have my paper (AUUG, not USENIX) which I could convert. Who do I talk to? How do we persuade Jordan to pay the same money? :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 00:42:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22343 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:42:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22326 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:42:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.sl.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA10761 ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:42:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA00743; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:42:18 +0200 To: Tim Vanderhoek Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/7011 References: <199807282305.QAA18635@freefall.freebsd.org> <19980729115752.A25791@zappo> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 30 Jul 1998 09:42:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: Tim Vanderhoek's message of Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:57:53 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tim Vanderhoek writes on freebsd-bugs: > On Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 12:47:46PM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > > I'll do this as soon Babylon 5 is over. And maybe Buff/Vampire-Slayer, too. > > What, you watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer? That show is so bad you I > > can't help laughing my guts out watching it. It's a pity, though; that > > girl really has a nice shape on her ;) > Wouldn't be half as interesting any other way. ;) Heh :) OK, you have a valid excuse. DES (who thinks Blossom is sexy) -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 01:29:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29625 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:29:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA29615 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:29:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA01551 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:36:31 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 1502; Thu Jul 30 10:35:40 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199807300834.KAA00279@cdsec.com> Subject: Re: Dr Dobb's Journal, September 1998 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:34:47 +0200 (SAT) In-Reply-To: <199807300003.RAA10878@kithrup.com> from "Sean Eric Fagan" at Jul 29, 98 05:03:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Now a rant, a challenge, and some bragging. How about an article on BPF and/or libpcap? I could easily write something like that... -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 01:34:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA00642 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:34:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA00612 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:34:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16977 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dr Dobb's Journal, September 1998 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:03:25 PDT." <199807300003.RAA10878@kithrup.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:32:56 -0700 Message-ID: <16972.901787576@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > DDJ paid me $850 for the article, same as the first one. However, with the > first one, Walnut Creek CD-ROM provided me with matching funds, which meant > that time I spent on the article was actually quite well-paid. It did, in > fact, end up paying for my new server (minus tape drive, which was an > unexpected expense anyway). > > But I was, Jordan says, the only person who took advantage of this -- and so > it was discontinued (which I did not find out until after I asked when I'd > be getting the money from WC 8-)). Had some of you other bright and verbose Actually, just to set the record straight, we'll be "grandfathering" the older articles and will indeed be sending Sean a check for this one as well as one to Rich Morin for his article on FreeBSD in Sun Expert. The point remains, however, that Sean was really the only one to take me up on this and that's pretty sad. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 02:58:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA12311 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:58:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12304; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07706; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 04:54:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199807300954.EAA07706@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Conspiracy Theories (Was: Re: The future of the bt848 driver? (FW: cvs commit: CVSROOT avail) ) In-Reply-To: <671.901739120@critter.freebsd.dk> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Jul 29, 98 09:05:20 pm" To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 04:54:04 -0500 (EST) Cc: scrappy@hub.org, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, sos@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Poul-Henning Kamp said: > > John Dyson went out a tangent and lost all contact with the core > team, some will even say he went "balistic", in either case, he > attained escape velocity, and that is the end of that story. > Actually, PHK, that isn't quite true. Please do a reality check as to the situation. Also, people were looking over my shoulder during the implied confrontations, and agreed with my opinions about the situation. However, those people were indeed fully informed, unlike those who might have misjudged the situation. Since you brought it up: 1) The incessant releases of 2.2.X put alot of pressure on future and current development. 3.0 had to be released and stabilized earlier. The current monolithic kernel is not the right vehicle for SMP (from a quality and design standpoint.) FreeBSD needed to "just stabilize" 3.0, and I would have, if that was the plan. I warned JKH about the differences between -current and -stable being more than a nuisance over 6-9 mos ago. Tolerable quality SMP would have been in a 3.0 release 6mos ago, *IF* the initiative was started to produce it. 2) There was a disagreement, with parties involved, taking positions, without being informed. Those parties include the person that I am responding to. 3) I had asked -core for significant support for an investment that was necessary for the future. That investment included a kernel that would have been able to support things that the current monolithic kernel could not. The response from PHK, due to his errant assumption that I was loosing interest was to "show me the door." It was pretty obvious that he was encouraging me to walk away. 4) The *only* reason why my employer was using FreeBSD was my advocacy, and my ability to show that FreeBSD was technologically advanced. I could no longer make that claim, especially considering a >2yr timeframe. (I tend not to think in the terms of "right now", but in future terms, where current decisions have the most influence.) 5) Comments about my quality of work need to be carefully considered based upon the lack of support and initiative from other people directly involved in FreeBSD. The best support that I got, was from wonderful contributors from the outside. Those who theoretically should be in the best position to help, weren't doing so (and were relatively absent from development.) If there was any question about the work that I was doing, should consider the fact that I had a strategy, that those who could have been involved just decided to judge, rather than talk to me, or help and participate. I suspect that the above judgement was partially a cultural thing. However, that isn't an excuse. 6) FreeBSD-3.0 will be much nicer than 2.2.X, but is not the generic answer to enterprise (and controller) computing. FreeBSD's niche that it has carved out is okay for now, but the strategy has been myopic. Not every -core member can do every job all of the time, and it was becoming clearer that even though there has been some success with FreeBSD, the PR was severely lacking. Since Linux has been winning the PR game (and I knew about certain issues regarding Linux commercial products), it is pretty obvious that there is a breakdown somewhere. I did keep up with the competition, and the marketing of such, and KNOW that there are some impressive things going on. The good news for FreeBSD, is that some of the competitions' initiatives have been "duds" also. Negative competition by hoping for competitors downfall isn't good (IMO), so it seems that FreeBSD needed a new initiative. The only way to compete effectively with Linux now, is to leapfrog them from BOTH a technological and quality standpoint. In many ways, FreeBSD still has an edge in the quality arena but that has been slowly slipping, and expected to, given the current framework. Technologically, FreeBSD and Linux are very close cousins, with few significant structural differences. The key to staying in the game with them is to overwhelm their product with a vastly superior technology. The other way to stay in the game is by superior marketing (but that doesn't appear to be possible, or likely given current staffing.) Given that, and the FACT that the (ALL) current monlithic kernels have a structure that is stunted for too many current and future needs, and the total lack of support from significant FreeBSD-core members, I decided to solve the problem with another group of individuals. I now have significant support from work (>4 people cooperating, between 10% -> 50%+ time) and various people involved in other OS teams. The new work will be under a BSD-like license, and will easily support POSIX/*BSD semantics, with a combination of performance, scalability (both upwards and downwards), and compatibility that, in combination, is unheard of in the free software world. Work is progressing, and initial results of design work are very encouraging. Context switch times in most cases will be fantastic, and the amount of AS code is significantly less than current *BSD OSes. Since the effort involves people who are interested in portability, large distributed systems, and RT micro controllers, the design is a little more challenging than writing "yet another U**X kernel." The new kernel will accept BSD kernel subsystems to support things like networking, and will have specific features to support BSD kernel emulation. BSD kernel pieces will be added in for emulation and certain native capabilites, but the BSD structure as a whole is being pretty much ignored. I am not giving away much on the structure yet, but even the lowest level context switching methods and code are very very tricky (not really complex, but have to be carefully designed), when working from a clean slate. (Difficult, considering issues of performance, portability, and simplicity.) So, summing it up, the reason why I left FreeBSD-core, was the rash assumptions made by people who really didn't know what they talking about (in the sense of the larger scale of things), and the frustration that I built up trying to make up for marketing problems. Not all -core members are guilty of that behavior, but it only took a few to spoil it for me, due to the extreme amount of effort that I knew that I had to invest (and others would have to invest) to make this new initiative succeed. There would have been that negative "undercurrent" that PHK expressed when I asked the team for support, and such a negative undercurrent would not have been easy to deal with. I didn't see the vision in those core members who decided that I was wrong. I could have stayed, but it just wouldn't have been "worth it." I hereby sentence those who think that I am wrong, to make properly fine grained SMP run in FreeBSD in about 6mos-1yr, and support the mess forever. :-). IMO, the time when it is sufficient to be a BSD kernel technician, in the next few years is coming to an end. There is more that can be milked out of it, but it is critical to invest in the future also. Predominant FreeBSD-core members were obviously not interested in such an investment. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 03:04:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA12809 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 03:04:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (intschool.easynet.co.uk [194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA12798; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 03:04:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (bamboo.tis [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02779; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:44:25 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35C040B0.12056E9C@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:45:20 +0100 From: Stuart Henderson Organization: The International School X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , "Scott I. Remick" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD advocacy References: <199807292254.PAA01344@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote: > > Hmm, we don't count as "supported" for Netscape? If you go to the Netscape home page and click 'download', the choices are Windows or Mac or 'other available platforms' - click on the 'other platforms' option and you get... Windows or Mac again. If you look a bit more closely and find the link to http://home.netscape.com/download/selectplatform_1_1.html, the only *x's you'll find are AIX, Digital, HPUX, Solaris, SunOS, IRIX, Linux. "If the operating system you need is not shown, you may need to select another version or check the Vendor Supported versions." i.e. BSDi, SCO, Reliant, MP-RAS, Open VMS, OS/2 Warp, Caldera OpenLinux - even if it said "or dig around our ftp site to see what you can find" it would be more use than it is at the moment. Unless you already use FreeBSD (or know that Linux compatibility does work well), you wouldn't know it's supported. I don't know if anything is still happening with the proposed common UNIX-on-x86 binary format - we already pretty much have one, Linux binaries, they just need a different name :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 04:40:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24399 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 04:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24394 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 04:40:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14441 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:40:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:40:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: plush toys Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org what are the chances that walnut creek would buy up a ton of these and sell them on a site that takes american dollars and speaks english =) -Pat (who can semi-read german, but falls WAY short =)) ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 05:47:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01371 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:47:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01362 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:47:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.sl.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA24904 ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:32:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA01153; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:32:01 +0200 To: Pat Lynch Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 30 Jul 1998 14:32:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: Pat Lynch's message of Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:40:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pat Lynch writes: > what are the chances that walnut creek would buy up a ton of these and > sell them on a site that takes american dollars and speaks english =) Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 05:49:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01682 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:49:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01676 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:49:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA18135; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:48:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Pat Lynch cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:40:54 EDT." Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:48:08 -0700 Message-ID: <18132.901802888@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We're negotiating this right now, but it's too early to say how or if it will be worked out. > what are the chances that walnut creek would buy up a ton of these and > sell them on a site that takes american dollars and speaks english =) > > -Pat (who can semi-read german, but falls WAY short =)) > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net > Systems Administrator Rush Networking > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 05:50:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01851 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:50:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01842 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:50:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA18153; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:48:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav) cc: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys In-reply-to: Your message of "30 Jul 1998 14:32:00 +0200." Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:48:45 -0700 Message-ID: <18150.901802925@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi > reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) Let's try and stay focused on the FreeBSD items, shall we? :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 05:58:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA02745 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:58:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA02734 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:58:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.sl.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA25942 ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:58:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA01161; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:58:11 +0200 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18150.901802925@time.cdrom.com> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 30 Jul 1998 14:58:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:48:45 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi > > reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) > Let's try and stay focused on the FreeBSD items, shall we? :) Well, last I checked, FreeBSD shipped with vi. It's even in our CVS tree, under src/usr.bin/vi :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 06:53:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05608 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:53:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05599 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:53:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA18292; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:03:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav) cc: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys In-reply-to: Your message of "30 Jul 1998 14:58:10 +0200." Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:03:17 -0700 Message-ID: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > > Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi > > > reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) > > Let's try and stay focused on the FreeBSD items, shall we? :) > > Well, last I checked, FreeBSD shipped with vi. It's even in our CVS > tree, under src/usr.bin/vi :) I think you're missing the point. If you want a vi cup, go buy one from whomever sells it. If you want a piece of FreeBSD merchandise which isn't already offered, let's talk about it. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 07:05:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07066 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:05:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07059 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:05:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11830; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:43:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao X-Sender: taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca To: FREEBSD-CHAT Subject: ``CRL Network Services Carries the Traffic of the Record-Breaking Walnut Creek CDROM FTP Site'' Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Good mention of FreeBSD by David in this BusinessWire news article. :) Nice slam on Microsoft too, with the 40:1 server ratio. ;-) [http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/980730/crl_networ_1.html] Thursday July 30, 8:01 am Eastern Time Company Press Release CRL Network Services Carries the Traffic of the Record-Breaking Walnut Creek CDROM FTP Site Walnut Creek CDROM, One of the Largest Public FTP Archives in the World, Sets Traffic Record Using FreeBSD and Colocating on CRL's High-Speed Internet Network SAN FRANCISCO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 30, 1998-- CRL Network Services announced today that its network is carrying the traffic of the record-breaking Walnut Creek CDROM FTP site. Walnut Creek CDROM's server downloaded the most software in one day, 417 gigabytes of files, on Tuesday, July 28, 1998. The record was achieved using FreeBSD on only one server colocated on CRL's national Internet backbone. [...] -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 07:11:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07795 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:11:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flarn.dyn.ml.org (usr313.third-wave.com [147.72.122.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07789 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:11:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@flarn.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from mph@localhost) by flarn.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26426; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:11:28 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980730101128.A26202@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:11:28 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Lynch on Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 07:40:54AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 07:40:54AM -0400, Pat Lynch wrote: > -Pat (who can semi-read german, but falls WAY short =)) I resorted to babelfish.altavista.digitial.com, which evidently can also semi-read German. I quote its translation: % BSD Daemon, animalanimal animal, 30 cm % The Maskottchen to BSD (generally represent by the versions % FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and BSDI) 30 cm highly, with % dreizack from wood and felt - also for child hands suitably % (E-CCharacters). % Price per unit: 49.00 DM I think I can figure out Maskottchen, but "dreizack from wood" has be a bit puzzled. -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property of matter. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 07:25:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09397 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:25:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA09389 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:25:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from (uk.radan.com) [158.152.75.22] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z1tdv-0005uH-00; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:25:20 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA03126; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:24:49 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08443; Thu, 30 Jul 98 15:24:47 BST Message-Id: <35C0820C.DF78C1D@uk.radan.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:24:12 +0100 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Hunt Cc: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <19980730101128.A26202@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Hunt wrote: > I think I can figure out Maskottchen, but "dreizack from wood" > has be a bit puzzled. dreizack == trident > > -- > Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property of matter. > http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Mark Ovens *====================================* CNC Apps Engineer | One of the main causes of the fall | Radan Computational Ltd | of the Roman Empire was, that | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com | lacking a zero, they had no way of | | indicating the successful | | termination of their C programs | *====================================* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 07:27:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09600 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:27:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09592 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.sl.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA29507 ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:26:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA01212; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:26:38 +0200 To: Matthew Hunt Cc: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <19980730101128.A26202@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 30 Jul 1998 16:26:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: Matthew Hunt's message of Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:11:28 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 27 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Hunt writes: > I resorted to babelfish.altavista.digitial.com, which evidently > can also semi-read German. I quote its translation: > > % BSD Daemon, animalanimal animal, 30 cm > > % The Maskottchen to BSD (generally represent by the versions > % FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and BSDI) 30 cm highly, with > % dreizack from wood and felt - also for child hands suitably > % (E-CCharacters). > > % Price per unit: 49.00 DM Heh :) "The mascot of BSD (generally represented by the versions FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and BSDI), 30 cm tall, with trident of wood and felt - also suitable for children (CE certified)." For you merkins out there, CE certification indicates that a product conforms to a set of quality and safety standards fixed by the European Union. "CE-Zeichen" literally means "CE-logo", because CE-certified products usually have the CE logo printed on the label. DES (my German definitely needs polishing...) -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 07:32:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10474 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:32:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from em.uni-frankfurt.de (NAFp2-018.rz.uni-frankfurt.de [141.2.23.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10460 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from strange@stoned.rhein-main.de) Received: from stoned.rhein-main.de (strange@stoned.ether.net [192.168.55.55]) by em.uni-frankfurt.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03025; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:31:38 GMT (envelope-from strange@stoned.rhein-main.de) Received: (from strange@localhost) by stoned.rhein-main.de (8.8.8/8.8.8stoned) id QAA01278; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:29:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from strange) Message-ID: <19980730162912.C853@stoned.ether.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:29:12 +0200 From: Meike Aulbach To: Matthew Hunt , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <19980730101128.A26202@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 In-Reply-To: <19980730101128.A26202@flarn.dyn.ml.org>; from Matthew Hunt on Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 10:11:28AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 10:11:28AM -0400, Matthew Hunt wrote: > I think I can figure out Maskottchen, but "dreizack from wood" > has be a bit puzzled. $ dict dreizack trident Dreizack $ bye, Meike -- Meike Aulbach PGP Key fingerprint = 66 05 8B 5E AD 80 60 DE 06 EA 60 D6 E0 D8 F1 43 The universe rings with milky way music To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 07:34:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10659 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:34:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10653 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:34:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06907; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:53:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980730075308.04537@futuresouth.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:53:08 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Crx4yatby0xr=2Efsf=40oslo=2Egeco-prakla=2Eslb=2Ecom=3E?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3B_from_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav_on_Thu=2C_Jul_30=2C?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_1998_at_02=3A32=3A00PM_+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 02:32:00PM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav woke me up to tell me: > Pat Lynch writes: > > what are the chances that walnut creek would buy up a ton of these and > > sell them on a site that takes american dollars and speaks english =) > > Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi > reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) Sweet!!! I want one!!! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 07:34:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10674 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:34:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10668 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:34:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07227; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:01:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980730080121.03823@futuresouth.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:01:21 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18150.901802925@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Crx4sojjxzq4=2Efsf=40oslo=2Egeco-prakla=2Eslb=2Ecom=3E?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3B_from_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav_on_Thu=2C_Jul_30=2C?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_1998_at_02=3A58=3A10PM_+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 02:58:10PM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav woke me up to tell me: > "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > > Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi > > > reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) > > Let's try and stay focused on the FreeBSD items, shall we? :) > > Well, last I checked, FreeBSD shipped with vi. It's even in our CVS > tree, under src/usr.bin/vi :) Actually, it's not. All the meat of it is in contrib/nvi *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 08:25:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15900 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:25:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15894 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:25:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18622; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:19:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Matthew Hunt cc: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:11:28 EDT." <19980730101128.A26202@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:19:32 -0700 Message-ID: <18619.901808372@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think I can figure out Maskottchen, but "dreizack from wood" > has be a bit puzzled. "Trident" - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 09:03:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18173 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:03:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca [24.64.63.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18168 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from purebeef@shaw.wave.ca) From: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Received: from purebeef.shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.141.183]) by norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA29873; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:57:47 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <18619.901808372@time.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Organization: York Hill Foods To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: plush toys Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 30-Jul-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> I think I can figure out Maskottchen, but "dreizack from wood" >> has be a bit puzzled. > > "Trident" > > - Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message Jordan, Would you consider FreeBSD Filet Mignon's, FreeBSD Rib Eye Steaks, FreeBSD New York Steaks, and don't forget the FreeBSD Sliced Corned Beef all fresh, vacuum packed in a FreeBSD box. Lanny ---------------------------------- E-Mail: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Date: 30-Jul-98 Time: 11:52:49 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 10:14:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23045 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:14:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22974 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:14:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tg@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA16764; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:21:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from tg@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id QAA29893; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:21:06 +0200 (CEST) To: Matthew Hunt Cc: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <19980730101128.A26202@flarn.dyn.ml.org> From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 30 Jul 1998 16:21:06 +0200 In-Reply-To: Matthew Hunt's message of "Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:11:28 -0400" Message-ID: <87d8anxvvx.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Hunt writes: > I think I can figure out Maskottchen, but "dreizack from wood" > has be a bit puzzled. Be too. :-) They mean the fork (looks like ``trident'' is missing in babelfish's dictionary). tg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 10:25:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24365 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:25:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24359 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:25:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA18708; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:42:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980730084221.A18628@mooseriver.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:42:21 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav Cc: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys Reply-To: jgrosch@best.com References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 06:03:17AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 06:03:17AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: >> > > Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi >> > > reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) >> > Let's try and stay focused on the FreeBSD items, shall we? :) >> >> Well, last I checked, FreeBSD shipped with vi. It's even in our CVS >> tree, under src/usr.bin/vi :) > >I think you're missing the point. If you want a vi cup, go buy one >from whomever sells it. If you want a piece of FreeBSD merchandise >which isn't already offered, let's talk about it. :) Yes, I want a FreeBSD coffe mug and mouse pad. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.8 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 12:15:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28171 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:15:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nexus.astro.psu.edu (nexus.astro.psu.edu [128.118.147.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA28158 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:15:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@astro.psu.edu) Received: from mstar.astro.psu.edu by nexus.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Nexus-1.3) id AA02871; Thu, 30 Jul 98 15:06:44 EDT Received: by mstar.astro.psu.edu (SMI-8.6/Client-1.3) id PAA05022; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:06:38 -0400 Message-Id: <19980730150638.A5003@astro.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:06:38 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Dag-Erling Coidan Smxrgrav Cc: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <19980730101128.A26202@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Coidan Smxrgrav on Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 04:26:37PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 04:26:37PM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smxrgrav wrote: > "The mascot of BSD (generally represented by the versions FreeBSD, > NetBSD, OpenBSD and BSDI), 30 cm tall, with trident of wood and felt - > also suitable for children (CE certified)." Thanks. Four others were also kind enough to translate "dreizack" to "trident" for me. I know that freebsd-questions gets a lot of complimentary feedback about fast, accurate response, but it looks like freebsd-chat is at least as good for learning German... :-) -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property of matter. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 12:16:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28651 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:16:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca [24.64.63.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28565 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:16:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from purebeef@shaw.wave.ca) From: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Received: from purebeef.shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.141.183]) by norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA4542; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:38:19 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980731024251.35648@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:35:31 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Organization: York Hill Foods To: Sue Blake , Noemie Baron Subject: Re: plush toys Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 30-Jul-98 Sue Blake wrote: > On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:54:56AM -0400, purebeef@shaw.wave.ca wrote: >> >> Jordan, >> >> Would you consider FreeBSD Filet Mignon's, FreeBSD Rib Eye Steaks, >> FreeBSD New York Steaks, and don't forget the FreeBSD Sliced Corned Beef >> all >> fresh, vacuum packed in a FreeBSD box. > > > Yuk! What about us vegetarians? > > Better idea: Skip the dead animal remains, put a note on the box > (beside the leering daemon) about no animals harmed in the production > of FreeBSD. OK, a little white lie, but what the heck. > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- If we were designed to be vegies then we would not have the teeth we do. Not to mention the fact that G-D told us explicitly "from these animals you shall eat" regards Lanny ----- ----- \ / \ / \ / /------\ Pure BEEF / \ | 0 0 | is \ / \ / DELICIOUS \ / \ / OO ---------------------------------- E-Mail: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Date: 30-Jul-98 Time: 13:32:44 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 12:19:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29618 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:19:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29562 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:18:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA19729; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:17:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca cc: Sue Blake , Noemie Baron , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:35:31 EDT." Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:17:04 -0700 Message-ID: <19725.901826224@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think the subject of freebsd beefsteaks, freebsd carrots and freebsd condoms should probably be relegated to that list of "ideas who's time has simply not yet come." :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 12:24:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01637 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01612 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:24:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00273; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807301922.MAA00273@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:35:31 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:22:08 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > If we were designed to be vegies then we would not have the teeth we do. Not > to mention the fact that G-D told us explicitly "from these animals you shall > eat" This sounds more like instructions to eat dung, which is about where you go taking that sort of information literally. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 12:25:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02079 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:25:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02056 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:25:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00322; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807301925.MAA00322@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Graham Wheeler cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dr Dobb's Journal, September 1998 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jul 1998 10:34:47 +0200." <199807300834.KAA00279@cdsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:25:00 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Now a rant, a challenge, and some bragging. > > How about an article on BPF and/or libpcap? I could easily write something > like that... Of course. I would focus on libpcap simply because it's portable, but that's an excellent topic. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 12:35:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04814 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:35:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04764 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:34:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA14849; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:08:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:08:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch To: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Lager!!! (oh no, sorry, that was a NetBSD thing) ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 purebeef@shaw.wave.ca wrote: > > On 30-Jul-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> I think I can figure out Maskottchen, but "dreizack from wood" > >> has be a bit puzzled. > > > > "Trident" > > > > - Jordan > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > Jordan, > > Would you consider FreeBSD Filet Mignon's, FreeBSD Rib Eye Steaks, > FreeBSD New York Steaks, and don't forget the FreeBSD Sliced Corned Beef all > fresh, vacuum packed in a FreeBSD box. > > Lanny > ---------------------------------- > E-Mail: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca > Date: 30-Jul-98 > Time: 11:52:49 > > This message was sent by XFMail > ---------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 12:39:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06301 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:39:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06267 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA04334; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:42:53 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980731024251.35648@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:42:51 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18619.901808372@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from purebeef@shaw.wave.ca on Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:54:56AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:54:56AM -0400, purebeef@shaw.wave.ca wrote: > > Jordan, > > Would you consider FreeBSD Filet Mignon's, FreeBSD Rib Eye Steaks, > FreeBSD New York Steaks, and don't forget the FreeBSD Sliced Corned Beef all > fresh, vacuum packed in a FreeBSD box. Yuk! What about us vegetarians? Better idea: Skip the dead animal remains, put a note on the box (beside the leering daemon) about no animals harmed in the production of FreeBSD. OK, a little white lie, but what the heck. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 12:40:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06440 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:40:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06297 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:39:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA04317; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:35:49 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980731023546.56289@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:35:46 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav , Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 06:03:17AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 06:03:17AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > > > Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi > > > > reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) > > > Let's try and stay focused on the FreeBSD items, shall we? :) > > > > Well, last I checked, FreeBSD shipped with vi. It's even in our CVS > > tree, under src/usr.bin/vi :) > > I think you're missing the point. If you want a vi cup, go buy one > from whomever sells it. If you want a piece of FreeBSD merchandise > which isn't already offered, let's talk about it. :) What about a calendar for next year, marking off dates of current and historical interest, the odd paragraph on an interesting incident, landmark event, person or philosophy, a picture of the humble computer that breaks all these records, the first FreeBSD CD, daemons of yesteryear, Jordan frolicking with his cats... Maybe half a dozen pages of carefully selected reference info. FreeBSD URLs of course, but also things like an abridged vi reference (I'd prefer ed, actually), a list of those IP addresses that anyone can use, which branch to follow and why(not), that BSD genealogy diagram, and a whole lot of things I don't know about but should. Don't forget the audience is international. Make this section useful enough, and the rest entertaining enough, and it'll even be worth buying for those poor souls who still suffer some other kind of unix. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 13:07:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12220 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:07:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12208 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:07:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id WAA22099 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:07:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (VMailer, from userid 101) id 14260825A; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:49:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19980730214934.A10904@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:49:34 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <18619.901808372@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: ; from purebeef@shaw.wave.ca on Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:54:56AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4503 AMD-K6 MMX @ 233 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to purebeef@shaw.wave.ca: > Would you consider FreeBSD Filet Mignon's, FreeBSD Rib Eye Steaks, > FreeBSD New York Steaks, and don't forget the FreeBSD Sliced Corned Beef all > fresh, vacuum packed in a FreeBSD box. Only if the menu costs 50 US$. [ducks and runs] -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #62: Mon Jul 27 20:47:08 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 13:35:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17081 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:35:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from notabene.zer0.org (sac-port55.jps.net [209.63.114.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17075 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:35:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@n1.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by notabene.zer0.org (8.8.7/8.8.8) id NAA24781 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:41:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19980730134116.I16073@notabene.zer0.org> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:41:16 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <19725.901826224@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <19725.901826224@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:17:04PM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:17:04PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I think the subject of freebsd beefsteaks, freebsd carrots and freebsd > condoms should probably be relegated to that list of "ideas who's time > has simply not yet come." :-) On the contrary, I think it would be a great idea. Embedded FreeBSD nanosystems in the foods could be taken into our bodies, where they could be used for purposes of improving efficiency, increasing networking ability, removing the Microsoft nanosystems that Redmond has been spewing into the air for the last 5 years, a bit of dusting, perhaps an improvement here and there, performance tuning, and maybe helping grow an extra finger or two, just to make typing faster. I am Greg of FreeBSD... you will be assimilated... -- Gregory S. Sutter Bureaucrats cut red tape -- lengthwise. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 14:26:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27749 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:26:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27722 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:26:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from fermion (fermion [10.0.1.2]) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00453; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:26:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Message-Id: <199807302226.RAA00453@quark.ChrisBowman.com> X-Sender: crb@quark.ChrisBowman.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:24:20 -0400 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" From: "Christopher R. Bowman" Subject: Re: plush toys Cc: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980730075308.04537@futuresouth.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA27744 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:53 AM 7/30/98 , Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 02:32:00PM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav woke me up to tell me: >> Pat Lynch writes: >> > what are the chances that walnut creek would buy up a ton of these and >> > sell them on a site that takes american dollars and speaks english =) >> >> Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi >> reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) > >Sweet!!! >I want one!!! Ditto, I wonder if there are enough people to get together a group buy? -------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com http://www.ChrisBowman.com/~crb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 14:37:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29963 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:37:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29908 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:37:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA05082; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:36:49 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980731073646.06068@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:36:46 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Christopher R. Bowman" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <19980730075308.04537@futuresouth.com> <199807302226.RAA00453@quark.ChrisBowman.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199807302226.RAA00453@quark.ChrisBowman.com>; from Christopher R. Bowman on Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 05:24:20PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 05:24:20PM -0400, Christopher R. Bowman wrote: > At 08:53 AM 7/30/98 , Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > >On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 02:32:00PM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav woke > me up to tell me: > >> Pat Lynch writes: > >> > what are the chances that walnut creek would buy up a ton of these and > >> > sell them on a site that takes american dollars and speaks english =) > >> > >> Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi > >> reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) > > > >Sweet!!! > >I want one!!! > > Ditto, I wonder if there are enough people to get together a group buy? Sure, great idea, we can cut right down on currency hassles, postage and handling, since all FreeBSD users live in the same town :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 15:48:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11430 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:48:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (st-lcremean.tidalwave.net [208.213.203.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11424 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:48:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lee@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net) Received: (from lee@localhost) by st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id SAA04358; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:47:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19980730184714.A4354@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:47:14 -0400 From: Lee Cremeans To: Sue Blake , purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <18619.901808372@time.cdrom.com> <19980731024251.35648@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <19980731024251.35648@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 02:42:51AM +1000 X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 02:42:51AM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:54:56AM -0400, purebeef@shaw.wave.ca wrote: > > > > Jordan, > > > > Would you consider FreeBSD Filet Mignon's, FreeBSD Rib Eye Steaks, > > FreeBSD New York Steaks, and don't forget the FreeBSD Sliced Corned Beef all > > fresh, vacuum packed in a FreeBSD box. > > > Yuk! What about us vegetarians? FreeBSD Gardenburgers! ;) -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac/95/96 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | lcremean@tidalwave.net FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net/~lee | finger me for geek code To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 15:55:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12179 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:55:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org ([206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12173 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:55:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11099; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:54:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199807302254.QAA11099@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:54:37 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: FreeBSD merchandising Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How about FreeBSDiesel fuel? FreeBSDoughnuts? FreeBSDoggie pooper scoopers? Seriously, folks, I think the most important thing is to make sure that the FreeBSD CD-ROMs aren't used as FreeBSD coasters. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 17:49:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04061 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:49:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04055 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:49:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from struct. (algae21.verinet.com [199.45.181.117]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA21851; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:49:13 -0600 Received: (from allenc@localhost) by struct. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05193; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:48:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Message-ID: <19980730184847.A5027@verinet.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:48:47 -0600 From: allen campbell To: jgrosch@best.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> <19980730084221.A18628@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980730084221.A18628@mooseriver.com>; from Josef Grosch on Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 08:42:21AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 08:42:21AM -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 06:03:17AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > >> > > Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi > >> > > reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) > >> > Let's try and stay focused on the FreeBSD items, shall we? :) > >> > >> Well, last I checked, FreeBSD shipped with vi. It's even in our CVS > >> tree, under src/usr.bin/vi :) > > > >I think you're missing the point. If you want a vi cup, go buy one > >from whomever sells it. If you want a piece of FreeBSD merchandise > >which isn't already offered, let's talk about it. :) > > Yes, I want a FreeBSD coffee mug and mouse pad. Ditto. I also want one inch square Chucks for the various boxes I herd. -- Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 18:06:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07307 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:06:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07226 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:06:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-182.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.182]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA27391 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:05:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11258 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:05:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199807310105.UAA11258@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: plush toys In-reply-to: Message from allen campbell of "Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:48:47 MDT." <19980730184847.A5027@verinet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:05:56 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org allen campbell writes: > > Yes, I want a FreeBSD coffee mug and mouse pad. > > Ditto. I also want one inch square Chucks for the various boxes > I herd. I ditto your ditto. If not 1.000 x 1.000 stickers then put an appropriate cut-out-able picture in the WC catalog. :-) I have about 2" high Chuckie taped to the front of this machine. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 18:11:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08208 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08194 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:11:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01823; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807310109.SAA01823@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: David Kelly cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:05:56 CDT." <199807310105.UAA11258@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:09:59 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > allen campbell writes: > > > Yes, I want a FreeBSD coffee mug and mouse pad. > > > > Ditto. I also want one inch square Chucks for the various boxes > > I herd. > > I ditto your ditto. If not 1.000 x 1.000 stickers then put an > appropriate cut-out-able picture in the WC catalog. :-) > > I have about 2" high Chuckie taped to the front of this machine. If you'd been in the queue at Usenix, you might have scored one from me. As it is, I'd suggest just keeping your ears and eyes open a little longer... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 18:14:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08805 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08794; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:14:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199807310114.SAA08794@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: plush toys In-Reply-To: <199807310109.SAA01823@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jul 30, 98 06:09:59 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote: > > If you'd been in the queue at Usenix, you might have scored one from > me. As it is, I'd suggest just keeping your ears and eyes open a little > longer... > i'm all ears! having only one, i have been loath to peel the backing and attach for good. so mine is stuck to the machine with a dab of rubber cement. appers less that fully committed to our OS. ;( jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 20:27:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21467 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:27:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21462 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:27:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19359; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:27:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <35C13987.32097F9D@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:27:03 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Hunt , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <19980730101128.A26202@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Hunt wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 07:40:54AM -0400, Pat Lynch wrote: > > > -Pat (who can semi-read german, but falls WAY short =)) > > I resorted to babelfish.altavista.digitial.com, which evidently > can also semi-read German. I quote its translation: > > % BSD Daemon, animalanimal animal, 30 cm > > % The Maskottchen to BSD (generally represent by the versions > % FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and BSDI) 30 cm highly, with > % dreizack from wood and felt - also for child hands suitably > % (E-CCharacters). > > % Price per unit: 49.00 DM > > I think I can figure out Maskottchen, but "dreizack from wood" > has be a bit puzzled. I'll take a stab at "stuffed with sawdust" because that is a common filling to stuffed toys from "the continent." We don't use this material in America anymore because we don't seem to have ANYTHING that isn't plastic in our country anymore. BTW, if you don't know what a babelfish is, you're seriously under- educated, and will never understand my workstation name - zaphod. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 22:54:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA06453 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:54:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com (netcom17.netcom.com [192.100.81.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA06446 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:54:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@netcom.com) Received: (from das@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id WAA28592; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:54:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Das Devaraj Subject: Re: plush toys To: lcremean@tidalwave.net cc: Sue Blake , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980730184714.A4354@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Lee Cremeans wrote: > On Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 02:42:51AM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > > Yuk! What about us vegetarians? > FreeBSD Gardenburgers! ;) FreeBSD vegan burgers, FreeBSD vegan chocolate, FreeBSD vegan pizza etc... das To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 23:28:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09782 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:28:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca [24.64.63.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09777 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:28:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from purebeef@shaw.wave.ca) From: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Received: from purebeef.shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.141.183]) by norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA6351; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:29:30 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19725.901826224@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Organization: York Hill Foods To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: plush toys Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Noemie Baron , Sue Blake , Greg Lehey Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 30-Jul-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I think the subject of freebsd beefsteaks, freebsd carrots and freebsd > condoms should probably be relegated to that list of "ideas who's time > has simply not yet come." :-) > > - Jordan Jordan, Umm...the term "beefsteaks" sounds like comparing windoze to FreeBSD with beefsteaks being=windoze!! As I said earlier.....it would be nice to have FreeBSD Filet Mignon's, FreeBSD Rib Eye's and FreeBSD New York Steaks. Unfortunately there is no man beef. Now for the Vegetarians (poor souls) we can have the FreeBSD Garden Burger (hold the relish), and the FreeBSD vipw SoyaBurger. Of course all products would come in the official FreeBSD box with that nifty little devil :-) We can certainly include Greg Lehey's The Complete FreeBSD and of course a FreeBSD Coffee mug with a sizeable order. On the other hand, if cdrom.com gets an order for linux, by all means please include a "beefsteak", just not a FreeBSD Steak. Lanny ----- ----- \ / \ / \ / /------\ Pure BEEF / \ | 0 0 | is \ / \ / DELICIOUS \ / \ / OO ---------------------------------- E-Mail: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Date: 31-Jul-98 Time: 02:17:42 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 30 23:49:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12296 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:49:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12284 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:49:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA01768; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:19:28 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA10868; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:19:04 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980731161904.S7830@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:19:04 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Noemie Baron , Sue Blake Subject: Re: plush toys References: <19725.901826224@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from purebeef@shaw.wave.ca on Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 02:26:56AM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 31 July 1998 at 2:26:56 -0400, purebeef@shaw.wave.ca wrote: > > On 30-Jul-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> I think the subject of freebsd beefsteaks, freebsd carrots and freebsd >> condoms should probably be relegated to that list of "ideas who's time >> has simply not yet come." :-) > > Umm...the term "beefsteaks" sounds like comparing windoze to FreeBSD > with beefsteaks being=windoze!! > > As I said earlier.....it would be nice to have FreeBSD Filet Mignon's, > FreeBSD Rib Eye's and FreeBSD New York Steaks. Unfortunately there is no man > beef. > > Now for the Vegetarians (poor souls) we can have the FreeBSD Garden > Burger (hold the relish), and the FreeBSD vipw SoyaBurger. Of course all > products would come in the official FreeBSD box with that nifty little devil :-) We prefer to call it a daemon. > We can certainly include Greg Lehey's The Complete FreeBSD and of > course a FreeBSD Coffee mug with a sizeable order. Now this is beginning to make sense :-) > On the other hand, if cdrom.com gets an order for linux, by all means > please include a "beefsteak", just not a FreeBSD Steak. So, Jordan, the time hasn't come? Times are changing. I think we have finally found a way to differentiate FreeBSD from the other open source systems. Just think of it: "FreeBSD. The red-blooded operating system. True beef". Who's going to write the FreeBSD cookbook? Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 00:01:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA13321 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:01:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca [24.64.63.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13310 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:01:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from purebeef@shaw.wave.ca) Received: from purebeef.shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.141.183]) by norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA12934; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:02:03 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Organization: York Hill Foods From: Lanny Baron To: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Subject: Re: plush toys Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Noemie Baron , Sue Blake Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 30-Jul-98 purebeef@shaw.wave.ca wrote: > > On 30-Jul-98 Sue Blake wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:54:56AM -0400, purebeef@shaw.wave.ca wrote: >>> >>> Jordan, >>> >>> Would you consider FreeBSD Filet Mignon's, FreeBSD Rib Eye Steaks, >>> FreeBSD New York Steaks, and don't forget the FreeBSD Sliced Corned Beef >>> all >>> fresh, vacuum packed in a FreeBSD box. >> >> >> Yuk! What about us vegetarians? >> >> Better idea: Skip the dead animal remains, put a note on the box >> (beside the leering daemon) about no animals harmed in the production >> of FreeBSD. OK, a little white lie, but what the heck. >> >> -- >> >> Regards, >> -*Sue*- > > If we were designed to be vegies then we would not have the teeth we do. > Not > to mention the fact that G-D told us explicitly "from these animals you shall > eat" > > regards > Lanny > Maybe you Jordan, would have some nifty Kosher FreeBSD items. For starters (and for some poor soul with a cold) the all new FreeBSD Kosher Chicken Soup (we can make it parve [no meat]) for the vegies....from there ...who knows....soon you will have the FreeBSD lawyer, dentist and doctor. Speaking of which, don't forget the FreeBSD Psychiatrist. REgards... Lanny ----- ----- \ / \ / \ / /------\ Pure BEEF / \ | 0 0 | is \ / \ / DELICIOUS \ / \ / OO ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Lanny Baron Date: 31-Jul-98 Time: 02:54:56 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 00:18:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14949 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:18:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca [24.64.63.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14944 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:18:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from purebeef@shaw.wave.ca) Received: from purebeef.shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.141.183]) by norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA16447; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:19:43 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980731161904.S7830@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: purebeef@shaw.wave.ca Organization: York Hill Foods From: Lanny Baron To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: plush toys Cc: Sue Blake , Noemie Baron , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 31-Jul-98 Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 31 July 1998 at 2:26:56 -0400, purebeef@shaw.wave.ca wrote: >> >> On 30-Jul-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >>> I think the subject of freebsd beefsteaks, freebsd carrots and freebsd >>> condoms should probably be relegated to that list of "ideas who's time >>> has simply not yet come." :-) >> >> Umm...the term "beefsteaks" sounds like comparing windoze to FreeBSD >> with beefsteaks being=windoze!! >> >> As I said earlier.....it would be nice to have FreeBSD Filet >> Mignon's, >> FreeBSD Rib Eye's and FreeBSD New York Steaks. Unfortunately there is no man >> beef. >> >> Now for the Vegetarians (poor souls) we can have the FreeBSD Garden >> Burger (hold the relish), and the FreeBSD vipw SoyaBurger. Of course all >> products would come in the official FreeBSD box with that nifty little devil >> :-) > > We prefer to call it a daemon. > >> We can certainly include Greg Lehey's The Complete FreeBSD and of >> course a FreeBSD Coffee mug with a sizeable order. > > Now this is beginning to make sense :-) > >> On the other hand, if cdrom.com gets an order for linux, by all >> means >> please include a "beefsteak", just not a FreeBSD Steak. > > So, Jordan, the time hasn't come? Times are changing. I think we > have finally found a way to differentiate FreeBSD from the other open > source systems. Just think of it: > > "FreeBSD. The red-blooded operating system. True beef". > > Who's going to write the FreeBSD cookbook? > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > Now Greg, did you think I would not include your fabulous works?? I will get you some really good Morrocan recepies from Noemie, my g/f which would really get a good thing going for the Official FreeBSD Recepie Manual by Greg Lehey. And Sue, don't worry, we shall surely include a section for Sue Blake's FreeBSD Vegetarian guide. Jordan, just for the record, when Greg makes the Official FreeBSD Guide to Global Village Recepies, I want you to do a man borshst or even better do man gefelte fish. Lanny ----- ----- \ / \ / \ / /------\ Pure BEEF / \ | 0 0 | is \ / \ / DELICIOUS \ / \ / OO ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Lanny Baron Date: 31-Jul-98 Time: 03:09:11 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 00:22:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15542 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA15537 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:22:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id JAA26876 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:22:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:22:37 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exciting Job Opportunities at Bell Labs Research References: <199807301948.PAA07852@fook.dnrc.bell-labs.com> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 31 Jul 1998 09:22:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Thomas Y.C. Woo"'s message of "Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:48:51 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id AAA15538 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Thomas Y.C. Woo" writes: > Specifically, we are looking people with the following skill: > > Software Developer: Unix Kernel (2) > =================================== > > - familiar with BSD-based kernel > (FreeBSD experience preferred) Heh... Bell Labs prefers BSD to SysV? I'll be damned... DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 00:42:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17772 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:42:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA17759 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:42:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.sl.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA22263 ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:41:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA01621; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:41:22 +0200 To: Sue Blake Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav , Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> <19980731023546.56289@welearn.com.au> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 31 Jul 1998 09:41:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: Sue Blake's message of Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:35:46 +1000 Message-ID: Lines: 23 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake writes: > What about a calendar for next year, marking off dates of current and > historical interest, the odd paragraph on an interesting incident, > landmark event, person or philosophy, a picture of the humble computer > that breaks all these records, the first FreeBSD CD, daemons of > yesteryear, Jordan frolicking with his cats... > > Maybe half a dozen pages of carefully selected reference info. FreeBSD > URLs of course, but also things like an abridged vi reference (I'd > prefer ed, actually), a list of those IP addresses that anyone can use, > which branch to follow and why(not), that BSD genealogy diagram, and a > whole lot of things I don't know about but should. Don't forget the > audience is international. Make this section useful enough, and the > rest entertaining enough, and it'll even be worth buying for those poor > souls who still suffer some other kind of unix. Damn, that girl is full of good ideas. Is there some decent DTP software in the ports tree? DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 00:49:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA18231 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:49:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA18223 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:49:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA02122; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:18:49 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA11985; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:18:49 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980731171849.B11960@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:18:49 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , Sue Blake Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> <19980731023546.56289@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Crx4emv2xyat=2Efsf=40oslo=2Egeco-prakla=2Eslb=2Ecom=3E?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3B_from_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav_on_Fri=2C_Jul_31=2C?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_1998_at_09:41:14AM_+0200?= WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 31 July 1998 at 9:41:14 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > Sue Blake writes: >> What about a calendar for next year, marking off dates of current and >> historical interest, the odd paragraph on an interesting incident, >> landmark event, person or philosophy, a picture of the humble computer >> that breaks all these records, the first FreeBSD CD, daemons of >> yesteryear, Jordan frolicking with his cats... >> >> Maybe half a dozen pages of carefully selected reference info. FreeBSD >> URLs of course, but also things like an abridged vi reference (I'd >> prefer ed, actually), a list of those IP addresses that anyone can use, >> which branch to follow and why(not), that BSD genealogy diagram, and a >> whole lot of things I don't know about but should. Don't forget the >> audience is international. Make this section useful enough, and the >> rest entertaining enough, and it'll even be worth buying for those poor >> souls who still suffer some other kind of unix. > > Damn, that girl is full of good ideas. > > Is there some decent DTP software in the ports tree? Of course. The best. groff. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 01:04:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19505 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:04:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA19500 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:04:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.sl.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA23152 ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:01:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA01640; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:01:47 +0200 To: Greg Lehey Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , Sue Blake , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> <19980731023546.56289@welearn.com.au> <19980731171849.B11960@freebie.lemis.com> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 31 Jul 1998 10:01:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:18:49 +0930 Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > On Friday, 31 July 1998 at 9:41:14 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > Is there some^H^H^H^Hany decent DTP software in the ports tree? > Of course. The best. groff. I was thinking more along the lines of the pointy-drooly-clickey- wisiwiggy kind of DTP software, the kind marketroids use to make the four-color glossies we all love, or would love except they're not very absorbent, which rules out the one obvious use for them¹. What do I read to learn groff? DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com ¹ TP! I want TP for my bunghole! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 01:07:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19757 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:07:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA19752 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:07:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA07192; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:06:46 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980731180642.39401@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:06:42 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: Greg Lehey , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> <19980731023546.56289@welearn.com.au> <19980731171849.B11960@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Crx4af5qxxcl=2Efsf=40oslo=2Egeco-prakla=2Eslb=2Ecom=3E?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3B_from_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav_on_Fri=2C_Jul_31=2C?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_1998_at_10=3A01=3A46AM_+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:01:46AM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: > > On Friday, 31 July 1998 at 9:41:14 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > > Is there some^H^H^H^Hany decent DTP software in the ports tree? > > Of course. The best. groff. > > I was thinking more along the lines of the pointy-drooly-clickey- > wisiwiggy kind of DTP software, the kind marketroids use to make the > four-color glossies we all love, or would love except they're not very > absorbent, which rules out the one obvious use for them¹. > > What do I read to learn groff? Nothing. You join the club and learn the secret handshake :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 01:08:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19911 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:08:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA19899 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:08:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA02334; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:37:35 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA12148; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:37:33 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980731173733.D11960@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:37:33 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: Sue Blake , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> <19980731023546.56289@welearn.com.au> <19980731171849.B11960@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Crx4af5qxxcl=2Efsf=40oslo=2Egeco-prakla=2Eslb=2Ecom=3E?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3B_from_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav_on_Fri=2C_Jul_31=2C?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_1998_at_10:01:46AM_+0200?= WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 31 July 1998 at 10:01:46 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: >> On Friday, 31 July 1998 at 9:41:14 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: >>> Is there some^H^H^H^Hany decent DTP software in the ports tree? >> Of course. The best. groff. > > I was thinking more along the lines of the pointy-drooly-clickey- > wisiwiggy kind of DTP software, the kind marketroids use to make the > four-color glossies we all love, or would love except they're not very > absorbent, which rules out the one obvious use for them¹. They use them for junk mail too. Around here that's more absorbent. > What do I read to learn groff? The source. Seriously, it's a pain because the documentation is so terrible. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 01:11:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA20176 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA20168 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:11:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.sl.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA23473 ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:08:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA01646; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:08:49 +0200 To: Sue Blake Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , Greg Lehey , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> <19980731023546.56289@welearn.com.au> <19980731171849.B11960@freebie.lemis.com> <19980731180642.39401@welearn.com.au> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 31 Jul 1998 10:08:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: Sue Blake's message of Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:06:42 +1000 Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake writes: > On Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:01:46AM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > Greg Lehey writes: > > > On Friday, 31 July 1998 at 9:41:14 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > > > Is there some^H^H^H^Hany decent DTP software in the ports tree? > > > Of course. The best. groff. > > What do I read to learn groff? > Nothing. You join the club and learn the secret handshake :-) Oh goodie, can I join you club? Puhleeeease? Show me! Show me! DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 01:49:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA22902 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:49:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA22861 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:49:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA09324; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:55:45 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 9322; Fri Jul 31 10:55:08 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199807310854.KAA02340@cdsec.com> Subject: Re: Dr Dobb's Journal, September 1998 To: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:54:07 +0200 (SAT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199807301615.JAA01618@kithrup.com> from "Sean Eric Fagan" at Jul 30, 98 09:15:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > In article <199807300834.KAA00279.kithrup.freebsd.chat@cdsec.com> you write: > >How about an article on BPF and/or libpcap? I could easily write something > >like that... > > What would you say? > > DDJ, unfortunately, doesn't really want kernel hacking articles. But they can > be persuaded if you can also make it about something else -- the truss > article, for example, was in their "performance and debugging" issue, because > truss can be used for that. And the second one was in their "networking" > issue. > > bpf and libpcap are ported to linux as well. So if you could come up with an > application for it (for example... I use a modified verison of tcpdump to keep > track of my network bandwidth; it's not great, and could definitely be done > better), DDJ or Linux Journal may be interested... I have written a program that uses libpcap to log TCP connections when they close, with client, server, duration, bytes sent, bytes received, and, in the case of FTP, files transferred, or HTTP, URLs requested, or NNTP, newsgroups browsed. I have also written an ident spoofer using the BPF device, and a simple extension to the BPF code that allows BPF programs to use labels and be `linked' before downloding to the BPF device. So there is definitely scope here I think. Ideally I would cover the program that logs the TCP connections, although I'll probably step on some toes, as my partners want to turn this into a commercial product. But I could probably strip it down a bit, and maybe just suggest the application-specific stuff as possible extensions. -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 02:21:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26827 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:21:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk ([194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA26815 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:21:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (bamboo.tis [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07936; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:09:51 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35C18A1F.8804EED8@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:10:55 +0100 From: Stuart Henderson Organization: The International School X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav , Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> <19980731023546.56289@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > > What about a calendar for next year, marking off dates of current and > historical interest, the odd paragraph on an interesting incident, > landmark event, person or philosophy, a picture of the humble computer > that breaks all these records, the first FreeBSD CD, daemons of > yesteryear, Jordan frolicking with his cats... and FreeBSD release dates so nobody can say they lost the email :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 02:25:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27239 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:25:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp2.globalserve.net (smtp2.globalserve.net [209.90.128.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27222; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:25:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from geoffr@globalserve.net) Received: from globalserve.net (dialin770.toronto.globalserve.net [209.90.133.7]) by smtp2.globalserve.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA15601; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 05:25:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from geoffr@globalserve.net) Message-ID: <35C18B48.8E767439@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 05:15:52 -0400 From: Geoffrey Robinson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vadim Kolontsov CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows SSH clients (was: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit)) References: <19980728175257.H19941@caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr> <19980730101358.A10071@tversu.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Vadim Kolontsov wrote: > > Presonally I like TeraTerm with ssh-extension: TTSSH > > http://www.zip.com.au/~roca/ttssh.html > Any chance there is an SSH client for windowz out there than can do Secure Copy too or maby just a stand-alone SCP client? SSH doasn't really help anybody if M$ users have to log in over FTP. -- Geoffrey Robinson geoffr@globalserve.net Oakville, Ontario, Canada. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 02:31:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28015 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:31:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from notabene.zer0.org (sac-port55.jps.net [209.63.114.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27987 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@n1.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by notabene.zer0.org (8.8.7/8.8.8) id CAA27107; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:37:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19980731023730.P16073@notabene.zer0.org> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:37:30 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: "Jan B. Koum " , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Defcon References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jan B. Koum on Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 02:02:59AM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 02:02:59AM -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > Ok, who is going? I am flying in on Thursday night and staying in > Monte Carlo 'til Sunday night. I know there are some FreeBSD activities > planned by a few other folks, there already be FreeBSD representation. So how is it? I tried to get organized enough to go, but failed... it would have been my first Defcon. Tell us! All us Tellurians are curious. At least this one is. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Bureaucrats cut red tape -- lengthwise. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 02:50:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00887 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:50:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA00757 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:50:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z2Boi-0006lr-00; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:49:40 +0200 Message-ID: <19980731114939.H25792@cityip.co.za> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:49:39 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: Geoffrey Robinson Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows SSH clients (was: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit)) Mail-Followup-To: Geoffrey Robinson , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980728175257.H19941@caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr> <19980730101358.A10071@tversu.ru> <35C18B48.8E767439@globalserve.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <35C18B48.8E767439@globalserve.net>; from Geoffrey Robinson on Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 05:15:52AM -0400 X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 at 05:15 SAT, Geoffrey Robinson wrote: > > > > http://www.zip.com.au/~roca/ttssh.html > > Any chance there is an SSH client for windowz out there than can do Secure > Copy too or maby just a stand-alone SCP client? SSH doasn't really help > anybody if M$ users have to log in over FTP. Friends of mine who use the above-mentioned client have told me that it supports zmodem file transfer protocols, which apparently work like a charm. Haven't tried it myself, yet. -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 04:21:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08932 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:21:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA08927 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:21:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from (uk.radan.com) [158.152.75.22] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z2DFW-0004rY-00; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:21:27 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA02265; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:20:38 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07164; Fri, 31 Jul 98 12:20:36 BST Message-Id: <35C1A862.DADF9492@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:20:02 +0100 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav , Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> <19980731023546.56289@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 06:03:17AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > > > > Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi > > > > > reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) > > > > Let's try and stay focused on the FreeBSD items, shall we? :) > > > > > > Well, last I checked, FreeBSD shipped with vi. It's even in our CVS > > > tree, under src/usr.bin/vi :) > > > > I think you're missing the point. If you want a vi cup, go buy one > > from whomever sells it. If you want a piece of FreeBSD merchandise > > which isn't already offered, let's talk about it. :) > > What about a calendar for next year, marking off dates of current and > historical interest, the odd paragraph on an interesting incident, > landmark event, person or philosophy, a picture of the humble computer > that breaks all these records, the first FreeBSD CD, daemons of > yesteryear, Excellent idea!! Hanging one on the office wall (or next to the coffee machine) should certainly get the FreeBSD name well known. > Jordan frolicking with his cats... I bet such behaviour is illegal in some countries ;-) > Maybe half a dozen pages of carefully selected reference info. FreeBSD > URLs of course, but also things like an abridged vi reference (I'd > prefer ed, actually), a list of those IP addresses that anyone can use, > which branch to follow and why(not), that BSD genealogy diagram, and a > whole lot of things I don't know about but should. > Don't forget the audience is international. That is important, for holidays etc. > Make this section useful enough, and the > rest entertaining enough, and it'll even be worth buying for those poor > souls who still suffer some other kind of unix. On the subject of calendars and Unix, can someone explain the following from /usr/share/calendar/calendar.computer .... 08/14 First Unix-based mallet created, 1954 ^^^^ |||| Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Unix "invented" in 1969? > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Mark Ovens *====================================* CNC Apps Engineer | One of the main causes of the fall | Radan Computational Ltd | of the Roman Empire was, that | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com | lacking a zero, they had no way of | | indicating the successful | | termination of their C programs | *====================================* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 05:17:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17112 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 05:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA17104 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 05:17:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.sl.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA05324 ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:13:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA01746; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:13:17 +0200 To: Mark Ovens Cc: Sue Blake , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav , Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> <19980731023546.56289@welearn.com.au> <35C1A862.DADF9492@uk.radan.com> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 31 Jul 1998 14:13:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: Mark Ovens's message of Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:20:02 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens writes: > On the subject of calendars and Unix, can someone explain the following from > /usr/share/calendar/calendar.computer .... > > 08/14 First Unix-based mallet created, 1954 > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Unix "invented" in 1969? Hey, what can you expect from a calendar that lists plot elements from LOTR as historical events? DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 06:06:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21805 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1586.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA21685 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10693; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:00:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Message-ID: <19980731080034.B10614@zappo> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:00:34 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Bruce Evans , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, woods@zeus.leitch.com Subject: Re: bin/7444: login exited on Signal 3, core dumped References: <199807310635.QAA18849@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199807310635.QAA18849@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 04:35:00PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [from -bugs] On Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 04:35:00PM +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: > > The history of this bug is farcial: > getpass.c 1.3 (1995/12/27): > Don't block SIGINT in getpass(). This had no effect for login because [A whole freaking page of cvs log excerpts] And to think the FSF says that revision control history isn't important! :-) [Disclaimer: not an official "from-on-high" opinion on their part, I believe.] -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 06:26:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23761 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23751 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:26:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.sl.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA08601 ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:25:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA01772; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:25:17 +0200 To: Tim Vanderhoek Cc: Bruce Evans , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, woods@zeus.leitch.com Subject: Re: bin/7444: login exited on Signal 3, core dumped References: <199807310635.QAA18849@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <19980731080034.B10614@zappo> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 31 Jul 1998 15:25:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: Tim Vanderhoek's message of Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:00:34 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tim Vanderhoek writes: > On Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 04:35:00PM +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: > > The history of this bug is farcial: > > getpass.c 1.3 (1995/12/27): > > Don't block SIGINT in getpass(). This had no effect for login because > [A whole freaking page of cvs log excerpts] Uhm, these weren't cvs logs, they were Bruce's highly subjective historical overview of getpass.c / login.c :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 07:15:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29565 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:15:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA29560 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:15:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id HAA13716 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807311415.HAA13716@mailgate.cadence.com> Received: from unknown(194.32.96.136) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma901894527.013714; Fri, 31 Jul 98 07:15:27 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:15:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Fast home links to the internet Reply-to: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As a quick survey, can I ask what speed links people have to their ISP from their home accounts. I'm not so interested in normal telephome modem links but the cable modems/xDSL etc. However, if you use multi-link PPP I would also be interested. I would also be interested in what people are planning to get in, say the next, six months. This is to help a presentation to a customer, I think they are planning on providing too small a BW (effectivly 2 * ISDN B channels) in their product and I want to get a feel for what people are using now. This is not a product you are going to see for a while yet... Thanks Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 07:31:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02617 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:31:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flarn.dyn.ml.org (usr335.third-wave.com [147.72.122.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02606 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:31:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@flarn.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from mph@localhost) by flarn.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05174; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:30:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980731103056.A5129@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:30:56 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exciting Job Opportunities at Bell Labs Research References: <199807301948.PAA07852@fook.dnrc.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpg1fih4ci=2Efsf=40hrotti=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B_from?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Fri=2C_Jul_31=2C_1998_a?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?t_09:22:37AM_+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 09:22:37AM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > Heh... Bell Labs prefers BSD to SysV? I'll be damned... Maybe it's like the CIA's(*) interest in hiring Russian-speaking agents during the Cold War. :-) (*) U.S. Central Intelligence Agency -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property of matter. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 07:58:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05671 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:58:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA05666 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:58:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Received: from scesie04.sie.siemens.at (root@[10.1.140.1]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id QAA10853; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:57:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from scegud01.gud.siemens.at (scegud01.gud.siemens.at [195.3.240.30]) by scesie04.sie.siemens.at () with ESMTP id QAA21948; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:57:18 +0200 (METDST) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (pc8811.gud.siemens.at [195.3.22.159]) by scegud01.gud.siemens.at (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01235; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:57:17 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980731180642.39401@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:06:55 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Siemens Austria AG From: Marino Ladavac To: Sue Blake Subject: Re: plush toys Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 31-Jul-98 Sue Blake wrote: > On Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:01:46AM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: >> >> What do I read to learn groff? > > Nothing. You join the club and learn the secret handshake :-) And remember: groff source is no help! arino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 08:53:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12070 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:53:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from moon.jic.com ([206.156.0.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12061; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:53:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mbriggs@switchboard.net) Received: from fortbriggs.ml.org (root@alex-va-n013c109.moon.jic.com [208.135.210.119]) by moon.jic.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08307; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from switchboard.net (root@alex-va-n013c109.moon.jic.com [208.135.210.119]) by fortbriggs.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA05129; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35C1E876.758C1A21@switchboard.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:53:26 -0400 From: "Matthew R. Briggs" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Geoffrey Robinson CC: Vadim Kolontsov , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows SSH clients (was: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit)) References: <19980728175257.H19941@caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr> <19980730101358.A10071@tversu.ru> <35C18B48.8E767439@globalserve.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Geoffrey Robinson wrote: > > Vadim Kolontsov wrote: > > > > Presonally I like TeraTerm with ssh-extension: TTSSH > > > > http://www.zip.com.au/~roca/ttssh.html > > > > Any chance there is an SSH client for windowz out there than can do Secure > Copy too or maby just a stand-alone SCP client? SSH doasn't really help > anybody if M$ users have to log in over FTP. > > -- > Geoffrey Robinson > geoffr@globalserve.net > Oakville, Ontario, Canada. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe security" in the body of the message Hi, I thought about this problem too (I'm on a Win95 machine at work, behind a firewall, and I connect to my home with ssh). The answer is to do port redirection on the client side, so executing "ftp localhost" actually gets you your remote server machine, and it goes across the encrypted connection. Cedomir Igaly's Windows SSH Client will do this, although it has a few other rough edges. It's free, but closed-source. Drop me a line if you want more details. Matt Briggs mbriggs@switchboard.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 10:23:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22786 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:23:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from exchangeserver.mpainc.com ([198.246.145.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22780 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from RickSiple@mpainc.com) Received: by EXCHANGESERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:23:39 -0400 Message-ID: <11FFBC5E23EDD111AF8D006008CEB82D014DC3@EXCHANGESERVER> From: Rick Siple To: "Chat Mailing List (E-mail)" Subject: High tech graffiti Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:23:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This was forwarded to me from a coworker, who got it from someone else, etc. So this could all be hearsay, but... __________ Rick Siple ricksiple@mpainc.com > -----Original Message----- > Subject: FW: Bill Sux > > Time Magazine reports an interesting case of high-tech graffiti. It > seems > that a couple of Intel engineers working on the design of a recent > version of the Pentium microprocessor included a message that > describes > their feelings about Bill Gates, president of Microsoft, a good > corporate > pal of Intel's. > > When a portion of the Pentium chip is examined under a powerful > scanning > electron microscope, the phrase "bill sux" is clearly visible, etched > into the surface of the chip. The "flaw" in the chip was only > discovered > by accident well after the chip was released into the market, too late > > for Intel to prevent the chip from being used in the manufacture of > tens > of thousands of PCs. > > Intel says that both engineers responsible were former employees of > Motorola, makers of the chips that are the heart of the Apple > Macintosh. > > Both engineers have since been fired by Intel. Full picture at > http://www.idt.mdh.se/kpt/billsux.jpg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 10:23:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22913 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from geo.geocast.net (geo.geocast.net [128.177.240.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22897 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:23:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from castor@geocast.net) Received: from localhost (castor@localhost) by geo.geocast.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00893; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:23:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Castor Fu To: Geoffrey Robinson cc: Vadim Kolontsov , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows SSH clients (was: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit)) In-Reply-To: <35C18B48.8E767439@globalserve.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Any chance there is an SSH client for windowz out there than can do Secure > Copy too or maby just a stand-alone SCP client? SSH doasn't really help > anybody if M$ users have to log in over FTP. This is a bit far afield for freebsd-security, but there's a primitive ssh set of clients for Win32 systems at http://bmrc.berkeley.edu/people/chaffee/winntutil.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 10:26:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23536 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [207.126.97.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23515 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:26:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12201; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:26:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:26:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199807311726.KAA12201@kithrup.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Translation to a safer language (Was: Projects to improve security) In-Reply-To: References: <199807221459.IAA04129@lariat.lariat.org> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article you write: >There is this guy named Michael Fagan who is going about teaching >what he calls Fagan Inspections. Hey. Nobody is inspecting me unless they pay me lots of money first. Or I pay them lots of money. >There are a lot of stats showing a real defect reduction by >Faganizing your code (and documents -- they both work). My surname is uncommon enough that seeing it in use by someone else always freaks me out a bit. I knew I should have trademarked myself. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 10:30:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24312 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:30:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24265; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:30:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199807311730.KAA24265@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: High tech graffiti In-Reply-To: <11FFBC5E23EDD111AF8D006008CEB82D014DC3@EXCHANGESERVER> from Rick Siple at "Jul 31, 98 01:23:28 pm" To: RickSiple@mpainc.com (Rick Siple) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org sorry to say this seems to be a hoax ;( original image: http://www.amazon.com/covers/0/69/102/125/0691021252.l.gif see http://slashdot.org/ jmb Rick Siple wrote: > This was forwarded to me from a coworker, who got it from someone else, > etc. So this could all be hearsay, but... > __________ > Rick Siple > ricksiple@mpainc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > Subject: FW: Bill Sux > > > > Time Magazine reports an interesting case of high-tech graffiti. It > > seems > > that a couple of Intel engineers working on the design of a recent > > version of the Pentium microprocessor included a message that > > describes > > their feelings about Bill Gates, president of Microsoft, a good > > corporate > > pal of Intel's. > > > > When a portion of the Pentium chip is examined under a powerful > > scanning > > electron microscope, the phrase "bill sux" is clearly visible, etched > > into the surface of the chip. The "flaw" in the chip was only > > discovered > > by accident well after the chip was released into the market, too late > > > > for Intel to prevent the chip from being used in the manufacture of > > tens > > of thousands of PCs. > > > > Intel says that both engineers responsible were former employees of > > Motorola, makers of the chips that are the heart of the Apple > > Macintosh. > > > > Both engineers have since been fired by Intel. Full picture at > > http://www.idt.mdh.se/kpt/billsux.jpg > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 10:30:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24448 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:30:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA24432 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:30:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from (ragnet.demon.co.uk) [158.152.46.40] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z2J0Z-0004C2-00; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:30:23 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0z29Xg-0000sZ-00; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:23:56 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199807302226.RAA00453@quark.ChrisBowman.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:23:56 +0100 (BST) From: Duncan Barclay To: "Christopher R. Bowman" Subject: Re: plush toys Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , "Matthew D. Fuller" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 30-Jul-98 Christopher R. Bowman wrote: > At 08:53 AM 7/30/98 , Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >>On Thu, Jul 30, 1998 at 02:32:00PM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smrgrav woke > me up to tell me: >>> Pat Lynch writes: >>> > what are the chances that walnut creek would buy up a ton of these and >>> > sell them on a site that takes american dollars and speaks english =) >>> >>> Good idea... and while they're at it, they could market the vi >>> reference coffee cup too. I *really* want one of those... :) >> >>Sweet!!! >>I want one!!! > > Ditto, I wonder if there are enough people to get together a group buy? I've got one! We clubbed together at work, within ten minutes of sending the global email we had orders for about 6, I thuink the minimum is 4? Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 10:30:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24505 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:30:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24482 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:30:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24379; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:29:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Rick Siple cc: "Chat Mailing List (E-mail)" Subject: Re: High tech graffiti In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:23:28 EDT." <11FFBC5E23EDD111AF8D006008CEB82D014DC3@EXCHANGESERVER> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:29:06 -0700 Message-ID: <24374.901906146@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > This was forwarded to me from a coworker, who got it from someone else, > etc. So this could all be hearsay, but... "Informed Sources" from Intel indicate that this is a practical joke. According to one of the engineers in question, the photo doesn't even represent a finished wafer (it's clearly not been through the last few stages of processing), nor would a finished die work with the "bill sux" where it is since metal migration would result in a part that failed fairly quickly. Oh well, cute joke though. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 12:14:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07516 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from castor2.freiepresse.de (castor2.freiepresse.de [194.25.232.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07502; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:14:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from G.Sittig@abo.FreiePresse.DE) Received: from uncle.gsinet (ppp-pln189.freiepresse.de [194.25.234.189]) by castor2.freiepresse.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA14277; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:08:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from uncle.gsinet (sittig@uncle.gsinet [192.168.11.131]) by uncle.gsinet (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA32305; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:58:14 +0200 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:58:14 +0200 (MEST) From: Gerhard Sittig X-Sender: sittig@uncle.gsinet cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows SSH clients (was: Re: FreeBSD Security How-To (Was: QPopper exploit)) In-Reply-To: <35C18B48.8E767439@globalserve.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Geoffrey Robinson wrote: > Vadim Kolontsov wrote: > > > > Presonally I like TeraTerm with ssh-extension: TTSSH > > > > http://www.zip.com.au/~roca/ttssh.html > > Any chance there is an SSH client for windowz out there than can do Secure > Copy too or maby just a stand-alone SCP client? SSH doasn't really help > anybody if M$ users have to log in over FTP. TeraTerm DOES send and receive files when there is an established connection. Have a look at the File menu. And it's FASTER and much more responsive than any other telnet I have seen. G.Sittig@abo.FreiePresse.DE -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 12:45:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12649 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1609.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12639 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:45:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12352; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:27:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Message-ID: <19980731152750.A12343@zappo> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:27:50 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: Bruce Evans , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, woods@zeus.leitch.com Subject: Re: bin/7444: login exited on Signal 3, core dumped References: <199807310635.QAA18849@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <19980731080034.B10614@zappo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Crx4n29qw3sz=2Efsf=40oslo=2Egeco-prakla=2Eslb=2Ecom=3E?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3B_from_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav_on_Fri=2C_Jul_31=2C?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_1998_at_03:25:16PM_+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 03:25:16PM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > Uhm, these weren't cvs logs, they were Bruce's highly subjective > historical overview of getpass.c / login.c :) Obviously (how many people write "Break this beyond recognition, now" as a commit message? :), but they were derived from commit messages + revision history. Either that, or he's totally making this all up. Hmm... ;-) -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 13:38:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21486 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:38:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21400 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:38:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id WAA00102 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:38:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (VMailer, from userid 101) id 142651E09; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:46:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19980731194603.A16590@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:46:03 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <18289.901803797@time.cdrom.com> <19980731023546.56289@welearn.com.au> <19980731171849.B11960@freebie.lemis.com> <19980731180642.39401@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Crx467gexx0u=2Efsf=40oslo=2Egeco-prakla=2Eslb=2Ecom=3E?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3B_from_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav_on_Fri=2C_Jul_31=2C?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_1998_at_10:08:49AM_+0200?= X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4510 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav: > Oh goodie, can I join you club? Puhleeeease? Show me! Show me! We could tell you but we'd have to kill you then... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #62: Mon Jul 27 20:47:08 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 14:05:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27697 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:05:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27651 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:05:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA10028; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:03:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199807312103.RAA10028@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: This changes everything In-Reply-To: <24167.901904435@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jul 31, 98 10:00:35 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I'm reevaluating the relevance factor of my current work in > > filesystems in light of the following earthshattering news: > > http://www.accpc.com/tcapstore.htm > > Ummmmmm. Reading the copy from this website makes me think of UFOs, > Area 51 and the Return Of Elvis though. One would think that if it > were for real, there would be far more people talking about it and in > much more sober academic journals. "Brandon DeWitt, IIId"? Who the > hell is that? If you tie this with the data compression algorithm seriously covered by Byte four or so years ago (remember - each time you ran it through the algorithm the data would compress more) you'll really have a winner. It may create a localized black hole, though. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 14:24:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03486 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:24:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA03399 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:23:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z2MeK-00079L-00; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:23:40 +0200 Message-ID: <19980731232340.A27464@cityip.co.za> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:23:40 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This changes everything Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <24167.901904435@time.cdrom.com> <199807312103.RAA10028@hda.hda.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199807312103.RAA10028@hda.hda.com>; from Peter Dufault on Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 05:03:09PM -0400 X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 at 17:03 SAT, Peter Dufault wrote: > > > I'm reevaluating the relevance factor of my current work in > > > filesystems in light of the following earthshattering news: > > > http://www.accpc.com/tcapstore.htm > > > > Ummmmmm. Reading the copy from this website makes me think of UFOs, > > Area 51 and the Return Of Elvis though. One would think that if it Not too far out. ;-) I've had this site pointed out to me some time ago. Follow the "Roswell" and "JFK" links from this page of theirs: http://accpc.com/publications.htm It's quite funny, actually. -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 14:30:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04154 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:30:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA04129 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:30:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z2Mkd-00079g-00; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:30:11 +0200 Message-ID: <19980731233011.A27497@cityip.co.za> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:30:11 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This changes everything Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <24167.901904435@time.cdrom.com> <199807312103.RAA10028@hda.hda.com> <19980731232340.A27464@cityip.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980731232340.A27464@cityip.co.za>; from Johann Visagie on Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:23:40PM +0200 X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 at 23:23 SAT, I wrote: > > Not too far out. ;-) I've had this site pointed out to me some time ago. > Follow the "Roswell" and "JFK" links from this page of theirs: > > http://accpc.com/publications.htm Just rereading their Roswell page myself, I see that they claim that there was an "alien technology transfer" to Bell Labs after the alleged Roswell crash. Hmmm. I always thought there was something funny about this Unix thing. -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 14:57:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07525 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:57:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pompano.pcola.gulf.net (pompano.pcola.gulf.net [198.69.72.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07518 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:57:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from calvin@pompano.pcola.gulf.net) Received: from localhost (calvin@localhost) by pompano.pcola.gulf.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA25629 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:57:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:57:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Calvin M Meloon To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This changes everything In-Reply-To: <19980731232340.A27464@cityip.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Johann Visagie wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 at 17:03 SAT, Peter Dufault wrote: > > > I'm reevaluating the relevance factor of my current work in > > > filesystems in light of the following earthshattering news: > > > http://www.accpc.com/tcapstore.htm > > > > Ummmmmm. Reading the copy from this website makes me think of UFOs, > > Area 51 and the Return Of Elvis though. One would think that if it My knowledge of capacitors isn't the greatest, but wouldn't you be seriously screwed if the 'trans'-capacitor lost its charge? _____ __ _ / ___/__ _/ / __(_)__ Gulf Coast Internet Calvin M. Meloon / /__/ _ `/ / |/ / / _ \ Pensacola, FL Unix Administrator \___/\_,_/_/|___/_/_//_/ (850)438-5700 writer of code ~~~~ calvin@gulf.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Proponent of FreeBSD and the right of everyone to use a real OS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 14:59:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07765 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:59:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07759 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:59:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27751; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:58:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Johann Visagie cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This changes everything In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:23:40 +0200." <19980731232340.A27464@cityip.co.za> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:58:16 -0700 Message-ID: <27748.901922296@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yeah, there's all kinds of great stuff on this site. I didn't know that aliens killed JFK, or that Elvis's death was caused by exposure to microwave radiation from the CIA's secret 12 Terahertz processor, for example! Of course, I may be getting it all a little mixed up here, but it's still great stuff. :-) - Jordan > On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 at 17:03 SAT, Peter Dufault wrote: > > > > I'm reevaluating the relevance factor of my current work in > > > > filesystems in light of the following earthshattering news: > > > > http://www.accpc.com/tcapstore.htm > > > > > > Ummmmmm. Reading the copy from this website makes me think of UFOs, > > > Area 51 and the Return Of Elvis though. One would think that if it > > Not too far out. ;-) I've had this site pointed out to me some time ago. > Follow the "Roswell" and "JFK" links from this page of theirs: > > http://accpc.com/publications.htm > > It's quite funny, actually. > > -- V > > Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 16:27:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24114 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:27:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24103 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21162; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:27:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199807312327.RAA21162@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: Exciting Job Opportunities at Bell Labs Research In-Reply-To: from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= at "Jul 31, 98 09:22:37 am" To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > "Thomas Y.C. Woo" writes: > > Specifically, we are looking people with the following skill: > > > > Software Developer: Unix Kernel (2) > > =================================== > > > > - familiar with BSD-based kernel > > (FreeBSD experience preferred) > > Heh... Bell Labs prefers BSD to SysV? I'll be damned... Bell Labs never used SysV, they used 8th & later 9th edition UNIX, which was related to SysIII/SysV only through their common parent, 7th edition. This is about the same place that SysV and BSD collide, too. Can you send the full original message? I may be interested, depending on geography. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 16:38:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26033 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:38:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26027 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:38:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (kashyyyk-1-124.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.131.124]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id SAA10409; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:38:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id SAA01320; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:38:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980731233836.ZM1319@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:38:36 +0000 In-Reply-To: Calvin M Meloon "Re: This changes everything" (Jul 31, 4:57pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Calvin M Meloon , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This changes everything MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jul 31, 4:57pm, Calvin M Meloon wrote: > Subject: Re: This changes everything > On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Johann Visagie wrote: > > On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 at 17:03 SAT, Peter Dufault wrote: > > > > I'm reevaluating the relevance factor of my current work in > > > > filesystems in light of the following earthshattering news: > > > > http://www.accpc.com/tcapstore.htm > > > > > > Ummmmmm. Reading the copy from this website makes me think of UFOs, > > > Area 51 and the Return Of Elvis though. One would think that if it > > My knowledge of capacitors isn't the greatest, but wouldn't you be > seriously screwed if the 'trans'-capacitor lost its charge? > > _____ __ _ > / ___/__ _/ / __(_)__ Gulf Coast Internet Calvin M. Meloon > / /__/ _ `/ / |/ / / _ \ Pensacola, FL Unix Administrator > \___/\_,_/_/|___/_/_//_/ (850)438-5700 writer of code > ~~~~ calvin@gulf.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Proponent of FreeBSD > and the right of everyone to use a real OS > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Calvin M Meloon Yes you would. However DRAM works on the same principle, it will change state unless it is refreshed periodically. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 20:06:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20026 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:06:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA20021 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA19260; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:05:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:05:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch To: Mike Smith cc: David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: plush toys In-Reply-To: <199807310109.SAA01823@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org MIke, no fair, I was there, and didn;t get one =) -Pat :p ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > allen campbell writes: > > > > Yes, I want a FreeBSD coffee mug and mouse pad. > > > > > > Ditto. I also want one inch square Chucks for the various boxes > > > I herd. > > > > I ditto your ditto. If not 1.000 x 1.000 stickers then put an > > appropriate cut-out-able picture in the WC catalog. :-) > > > > I have about 2" high Chuckie taped to the front of this machine. > > If you'd been in the queue at Usenix, you might have scored one from > me. As it is, I'd suggest just keeping your ears and eyes open a little > longer... > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 20:23:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21639 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:23:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21634 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:23:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA05543; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:23:34 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:23:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Calvin M Meloon cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This changes everything In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Calvin M Meloon wrote: > On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Johann Visagie wrote: > > On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 at 17:03 SAT, Peter Dufault wrote: > > > > I'm reevaluating the relevance factor of my current work in > > > > filesystems in light of the following earthshattering news: > > > > http://www.accpc.com/tcapstore.htm > > > > > > Ummmmmm. Reading the copy from this website makes me think of UFOs, > > > Area 51 and the Return Of Elvis though. One would think that if it > > My knowledge of capacitors isn't the greatest, but wouldn't you be > seriously screwed if the 'trans'-capacitor lost its charge? Yes, you would. The DRAM you (we, I, everyone) are using in our systems is capacitor based. It must be refreshed many times per second as the capacitors lose their charge _very_ quickly. SRAM (Static RAM, very expensive, commonly used in our PC processor caches and main memory of supercomputers) is transistor based and each cell holds its state indefinately until explicitly changed or power is lost. I've got a good enough electrical and general technical background to know that this is nothing but technically-clued-marketroid generated geek-speek, much like you'd find in Star Trek (actually better than what you find in Star Trek sometimes... Erm... Put down that crowbar.. I like Star Trek!). Some of it just sounds too technically phony to be for real. I DO, however, believe these types of "memories" will be "available" in the "forseeable future", so "plan" for them. (Had the excessive use of quotes in that page annoyed anyone else but me? See fortune -m "quotation marks around random words") Oh, don't you like this line, too? * Atapi IDE and SCSI ESDI Storage Protocols are licensed from Adaptec Corporation. Now, since when did Adaptec own the ATAPI or SCSI protocols, and whats this SCSI ESDI junk? :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 21:07:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26413 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:07:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA26407 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:07:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-137.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.137]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA16885 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:07:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA28335 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:38:05 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199808010338.WAA28335@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: plush toys In-reply-to: Message from Mark Ovens of "Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:20:02 BST." <35C1A862.DADF9492@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:38:05 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens writes: > Sue Blake wrote: > > > Jordan frolicking with his cats... > > I bet such behaviour is illegal in some countries ;-) Even worse things would happen if the authorities learned Jordan's herd of cats were running the CD duplication machines at Walnut Creek... -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 21:08:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26502 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:08:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA26424 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-137.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.137]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA23532 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:07:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA28379 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:54:35 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199808010354.WAA28379@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: This changes everything In-reply-to: Message from Calvin M Meloon of "Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:57:31 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:54:35 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Calvin M Meloon writes: > > My knowledge of capacitors isn't the greatest, but wouldn't you be > seriously screwed if the 'trans'-capacitor lost its charge? They left out the fine details. Such as the relationship between a trans-capacitor and the flux-capacitor. Both require Deloran to operate correctly. The Deloran has been out of production for some time, three movies have been made, and the flux-capacitor is all fluxed out. It appears the trans-capacitor is replacing the Deloran with an Intel Pentium II. Like the Deloran it requires gigawatts of power. Unlike the Deloran it appears the Pentium II is still in production. Then again I may be wrong. Intel may still be selling off surplus stock left by the Roswell aliens. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 31 21:54:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00923 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:54:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org ([206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00918 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:54:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14048; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:53:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808010453.WAA14048@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:53:52 -0600 To: David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: This changes everything In-Reply-To: <199808010354.WAA28379@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org And if you don't flummox your frobnicator the whole thing crevulates. ;-) --Brett At 10:54 PM 7/31/98 -0500, David Kelly wrote: >It appears the trans-capacitor is replacing the Deloran with an Intel >Pentium II. Like the Deloran it requires gigawatts of power. Unlike the >Deloran it appears the Pentium II is still in production. Then again I >may be wrong. Intel may still be selling off surplus stock left by the >Roswell aliens. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 1 02:24:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA22956 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:24:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA22951; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:24:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01504; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980801022441.A1493@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:24:41 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Retail outlets for FreeBSD Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Retail outlets for FreeBSD A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at (http://www.freebsd-support.com/Retail.html). Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email, and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD. This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th. -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.8 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 1 03:06:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26244 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:06:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA26228 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:06:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z2YY6-0000JW-00; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:06:02 +0200 Message-ID: <19980801120602.B1157@cityip.co.za> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:06:02 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This changes everything Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <19980731232340.A27464@cityip.co.za> <27748.901922296@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <27748.901922296@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 02:58:16PM -0700 X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 at 14:58 SAT, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Yeah, there's all kinds of great stuff on this site. I didn't know > that aliens killed JFK, or that Elvis's death was caused by exposure > to microwave radiation from the CIA's secret 12 Terahertz processor, > for example! I ended up spending some time last night err... researching that site. Here are some more gems: Their Chief Technical Officer invented a windowed GUI before Xerox. I _love_ the screenshot: http://accpc.com/home0.html I _need_ one of these on my desktop, running FreeBSD of course: http://accpc.com/e9.htm And speaking of FreeBSD, it seems they do offer it as a pre-installed OS!! http://accpc.com/ws1.html I wonder what on earth they'd do if somebody actually tried to order a "Q" server with FreeBSD installed. -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 1 03:30:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28719 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:30:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from transbay.net (synergy.transbay.net [209.133.53.223]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA28714; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:30:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bh@synergy.transbay.net) Received: from localhost (bh@localhost) by transbay.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA07121; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:34:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bh@synergy.transbay.net) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:34:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Brandon Huey To: Josef Grosch cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Retail outlets for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19980801022441.A1493@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: X-Copyright: (C)1998 Brandon Huey; Forwarding prohibited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org i see a good supply of _The Complete FreeBSD_ at the Borders in Emeryville, CA on a regular basis. i try to move a copy or two into the linux area, leaving a few in the proximity of _magic garden_ and the likes, where they normally are. i don't know the address.... it's part of the Emeryville Public Market on Shellmound -bh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 1 15:35:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28991 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 15:35:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28985; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 15:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA09027; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:05:12 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA20560; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:05:11 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980802080511.H11960@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:05:11 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brandon Huey , Josef Grosch Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Retail outlets for FreeBSD References: <19980801022441.A1493@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Brandon Huey on Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 03:34:22AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 1 August 1998 at 3:34:22 -0700, Brandon Huey wrote: > > i see a good supply of _The Complete FreeBSD_ at the Borders in > Emeryville, CA on a regular basis. i try to move a copy or two into the > linux area, leaving a few in the proximity of _magic garden_ and the > likes, where they normally are. :-) Yes, I do this, too, though I suppose I have an ulterior motive. They're also available at Borders in Austin, TX. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 1 15:51:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00663 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 15:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from led.zeppelin.net (star085116.galstar.com [204.251.85.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00608; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 15:51:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from connor@led.zeppelin.net) Received: from os2 ([10.0.0.2]) by led.zeppelin.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA07045; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:47:49 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from connor@led.zeppelin.net) Message-Id: <199808012247.RAA07045@led.zeppelin.net> From: "Adam Brown" To: "Brandon Huey" , "Greg Lehey" , "Josef Grosch" Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 17:41:21 -0600 Reply-To: "Adam Brown" X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Retail outlets for FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Yes, I do this, too, though I suppose I have an ulterior motive. > >They're also available at Borders in Austin, TX. > >Greg I've also heard that Barnes and Noble carries it, but they don't stock it on their shelves unfortunately. I suppose most bookstores could special order it for just about anyone. -- Adam Brown -- connor@led.zeppelin.net Zeppelin Internet Services -- where our motto is RTFM http://www.zeppelin.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 1 15:57:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01005 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 15:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01000; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 15:57:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3g-31.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.80]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA05368; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 15:56:09 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980801160243.0069d458@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 16:02:43 -0700 To: Greg Lehey , Brandon Huey , Josef Grosch From: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: Retail outlets for FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980802080511.H11960@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19980801022441.A1493@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:05 AM 8/2/98 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Saturday, 1 August 1998 at 3:34:22 -0700, Brandon Huey wrote: >> >> i see a good supply of _The Complete FreeBSD_ at the Borders in >> Emeryville, CA on a regular basis. i try to move a copy or two into the >> linux area, leaving a few in the proximity of _magic garden_ and the >> likes, where they normally are. I've seen a couple at the Borders in Long Beach, Ca. Although, they were all out the last time I've been there. Joey > >:-) > >Yes, I do this, too, though I suppose I have an ulterior motive. > >They're also available at Borders in Austin, TX. > >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 1 23:27:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05906 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:27:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vanessa.eliuk.org (pme29.sunshine.net [209.17.178.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05901 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:26:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net) Received: from localhost (cagey@localhost) by vanessa.eliuk.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA00579 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:26:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cagey@vanessa.eliuk.org) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:26:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kevin G. Eliuk" Reply-To: "Kevin G. Eliuk" To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Anyone have an opinion on PandaProject Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I have been looking at deciding on a newer system and have been lurking around the information at http://www.pandaproject.com/ourstuff.htm Has any of the experienced hardware persons here got an opinion to express on the products that they produce? What first caught my attention with them was their claim to be producing hardware without obsolescence built in. Probably wouldn't be looking at a server model but the ST-300 http://www.rockcity.net/order/computers.asp?Action=Specs&computer_type=ST-300 looks very impressive for $1295US. Hoping the $ stabilizes, Kevin G. Eliuk Discover Rock Solid, Discover FreeBSD | http://www.FreeBSD.Org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message