From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 9 07:11:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21080 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 07:11:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lucy.bedford.net (lucy.bedford.net [206.99.145.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21059 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 07:11:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djv@lucy.bedford.net) Received: (from djv@localhost) by lucy.bedford.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04576; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:03:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from djv) Message-Id: <199808091403.KAA04576@lucy.bedford.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19980809104012.P14475@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Aug 9, 98 10:40:12 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Cc: djv@bedford.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: djv@bedford.net From: djv@bedford.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote > (moved to -chat) > On Saturday, 8 August 1998 at 7:12:01 -0400, CyberPeasant wrote: > > Brandon Lockhart wrote: > >> > >> You can only have > >> one operating system loaded at a single point in time (correct me if I am > >> wrong). > > > > You're wrong :) The IBM mainframe OS, MVS, will run several OS's on > > the same machine, simultaneously. Each user gets his own OS. This > > is very cool... > > Nowadays the operating system is called OS/390, also known as UNIX 95. > I thought it was VM that ran multiple operating systems, not MVS. You think correctly. Why do i have MVS on my brain... for(i=0;i<10000;i++) promise("I will not make this misteak again"); > First I've heard of it. I haven't been keeping much track of the 360 > family in the last 10 years or so, but before that they were decidedly > CPU bound. Well, everything was bound up then. :) The 360/195 (I think this was known as the "Stretch") was quite snappy in its time. The apps I ran (numerical) were by definition CPU bound, anyway. This was a 2 of a kind unit (one for NSA, one for Los Alamos IIRC), with a hotrod CPU and a big load of memory, how much I've forgotten (128MB? More?), which IIRC was made of discrete transistors. I think it was faster than its contemporaries in the 370 series. The Navy kept it running until ~1986, I believe the power bill was why they shut it down. :-) (It was at the PAX NATC in S. Maryland). It had the cute feature, that if you requested more memory than was installed, it would enter your job in a queue, and notify the operator to order and install more memory. Dave -- "Today, machines sit on our desks and spend the overwhelming majority of their cycles doing nothing more important than blinking a cursor." --William Dickens http://www.feedmag.com/html/feedline/98.07dickens/98.07dickens_master.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 9 13:53:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22810 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:53:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from netcom3.netcom.com (netcom3.netcom.com [192.100.81.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22803 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:52:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@netcom.com) Received: (from das@localhost) by netcom3.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id NAA09024; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:51:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Das Devaraj Reply-To: Das Devaraj Subject: Re: FreeBSD To: Greg Lehey cc: djv@bedford.net, Brandon Lockhart , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980809104012.P14475@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Saturday, 8 August 1998 at 7:12:01 -0400, CyberPeasant wrote: > > The IBM mainframe OS, MVS, will run several OS's on > > the same machine, simultaneously. Each user gets his own OS. Actually this is partially true. Any processor complex can be split into logical partions (LPAR) using PR/SM (Processor Resource/ Systems manager) and different OS' loaded onto them. These partions operate independently, except when they share the IO devices. Each user getting his/her OS is a stretch, since max is something like 10. On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > Nowadays the operating system is called OS/390, also known as UNIX 95. The traditional OS is still MVS with a lot of qualifications after it like MVS/ESA etc (actually they seem to use that and OS/390 interchangeably). Then there is OpenEdition MVS, which is UNIX 95 compliant. There is even an online shell called OShell, which can be used to run UNIX commands from MVS. For list of all commands see http://ppdbooks.pok.ibm.com:80/cgi-bin/bookmgr/bookmgr.cmd/BOOKS/BPXA504/2.0 > I thought it was VM that ran multiple operating systems, not MVS. Yes. das To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 9 14:29:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25780 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:29:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25775 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:29:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from struct. (willow5.verinet.com [199.45.181.37]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id PAA27348 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 15:28:40 -0600 Received: from verinet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by struct. (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12166 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 15:27:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Message-ID: <35CE144F.514B9C95@verinet.com> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 15:27:43 -0600 From: Allen Campbell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: WP8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The WordPerfect 8 Prerelease for Linux is now available. It runs fine under FreeBSD RELENG-2.2 with Linux compatibility. The distribution is some 38MB: ftp://ftp.sdcorp.com/pub/demos/linux/wp8prerelease/linuxgui8.tar.gz -- Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 9 16:01:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04646 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:01:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04641 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA07786; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 08:30:48 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA12884; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 08:30:46 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980810083046.K11095@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 08:30:46 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: djv@bedford.net Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD References: <19980809104012.P14475@freebie.lemis.com> <199808091403.KAA04576@lucy.bedford.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199808091403.KAA04576@lucy.bedford.net>; from djv@bedford.net on Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 10:03:38AM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 X-Mutt-References: <199808091403.KAA04576@lucy.bedford.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 9 August 1998 at 10:03:38 -0400, djv@bedford.net wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote >> (moved to -chat) >> On Saturday, 8 August 1998 at 7:12:01 -0400, CyberPeasant wrote: >>> Brandon Lockhart wrote: >>>> >>>> You can only have >>>> one operating system loaded at a single point in time (correct me if I am >>>> wrong). >>> >>> You're wrong :) The IBM mainframe OS, MVS, will run several OS's on >>> the same machine, simultaneously. Each user gets his own OS. This >>> is very cool... >> >> Nowadays the operating system is called OS/390, also known as UNIX 95. >> I thought it was VM that ran multiple operating systems, not MVS. > > You think correctly. Why do i have MVS on my brain... > > for(i=0;i<10000;i++) > promise("I will not make this misteak again"); > >> First I've heard of it. I haven't been keeping much track of the 360 >> family in the last 10 years or so, but before that they were decidedly >> CPU bound. > > Well, everything was bound up then. :) The 360/195 (I think this > was known as the "Stretch") No, Stretch was the 7030, and predated the 360/ by a number of years. Supposedly the first machine to achieve 1 MIPS, but it didn't quite make it. > was quite snappy in its time. The apps I ran (numerical) were by > definition CPU bound, anyway. This was a 2 of a kind unit (one for > NSA, one for Los Alamos IIRC), with a hotrod CPU and a big load of > memory, how much I've forgotten (128MB? More?), which IIRC was made > of discrete transistors. I've never heard of discrete transistor memory of any size. The System/360 was the first machine in the world to use integrated circuits in a serious way, but it's possible they made exceptions in strange machines like the 360/195. > I think it was faster than its contemporaries in the 370 series. The > Navy kept it running until ~1986, I believe the power bill was why > they shut it down. :-) (It was at the PAX NATC in S. Maryland). Yes, the 360/195 wasn't really a 360 (all other 360s had model numbers under 100, all 370s over 100). I've forgotten the details, but for a 360 it really moved. It probably had over 1 MIPS. > It had the cute feature, that if you requested more memory than > was installed, it would enter your job in a queue, and notify > the operator to order and install more memory. This sounds like a side-effect of running OS/VS/1. IIRC it was the only /360 with virtual memory (and an 8 entry TLB :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 9 16:03:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04849 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:03:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04834 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:03:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA07800; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 08:32:43 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA12893; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 08:32:42 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980810083241.L11095@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 08:32:41 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Das Devaraj Cc: djv@bedford.net, Brandon Lockhart , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD References: <19980809104012.P14475@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Das Devaraj on Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 01:51:57PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 9 August 1998 at 13:51:57 -0700, Das Devaraj wrote: > >> On Saturday, 8 August 1998 at 7:12:01 -0400, CyberPeasant wrote: >>> The IBM mainframe OS, MVS, will run several OS's on >>> the same machine, simultaneously. Each user gets his own OS. > > Actually this is partially true. Any processor complex can be > split into logical partions (LPAR) using PR/SM (Processor Resource/ > Systems manager) and different OS' loaded onto them. These partions > operate independently, except when they share the IO devices. Each > user getting his/her OS is a stretch, since max is something like 10. Oh, sure, when you have multiple CPUs. I think we were talking about software multiplexing a physical system. > On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >> Nowadays the operating system is called OS/390, also known as UNIX 95. > > The traditional OS is still MVS with a lot of qualifications after > it like MVS/ESA etc (actually they seem to use that and OS/390 > interchangeably). I base my statement on some information I got from an IBM droid a while back who wanted me to hold a lecture for them. I used the term "MVS", and he said "no, that's called OS/390 nowadays". > Then there is OpenEdition MVS, which is UNIX 95 compliant. Could be, but this was the version he was talking about. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 9 17:24:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16149 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:24:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lucy.bedford.net (lucy.bedford.net [206.99.145.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16117 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:24:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djv@lucy.bedford.net) Received: (from djv@localhost) by lucy.bedford.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA07079; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:06:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from djv) Message-Id: <199808100006.UAA07079@lucy.bedford.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19980810083046.K11095@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Aug 10, 98 08:30:46 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Cc: djv@bedford.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: djv@bedford.net From: djv@bedford.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > No, Stretch was the 7030, and predated the 360/ by a number Ah, yes. > of years. Supposedly the first machine to achieve 1 MIPS, but it > didn't quite make it. > > > was quite snappy in its time. The apps I ran (numerical) were by > > definition CPU bound, anyway. This was a 2 of a kind unit (one for > > NSA, one for Los Alamos IIRC), with a hotrod CPU and a big load of > > memory, how much I've forgotten (128MB? More?), which IIRC was made > > of discrete transistors. Small ICs then. Oh well. I don't even know if it was air or water cooled. What would you estimate for bits/chip? > I've never heard of discrete transistor memory of any size. The > System/360 was the first machine in the world to use integrated > circuits in a serious way, but it's possible they made exceptions in > strange machines like the 360/195. When they broke up the /195, I had a chance to get a memory board as a souvenir, but I was sick of it by then. Should have got one! There were /lots/ of them. The thing filled a very large computer installation. (disk farm, rows of tape drives, line printers, (I think they even had a page printer of some kind on it), terminal equipment, card readers/punches). > > I think it was faster than its contemporaries in the 370 series. The > > Navy kept it running until ~1986, I believe the power bill was why > > they shut it down. :-) (It was at the PAX NATC in S. Maryland). > > Yes, the 360/195 wasn't really a 360 (all other 360s had model numbers > under 100, all 370s over 100). I've forgotten the details, but for a > 360 it really moved. It probably had over 1 MIPS. Oh, more than that I think. It was definitely faster than a VAX 11/780. It may have gone through CPU upgrades while at NSA, too. (I didn't meet it until around 1980, when it had gone to the Navy.) It's also possible that the original specs were deliberately understated, too. Dave -- "Today, machines sit on our desks and spend the overwhelming majority of their cycles doing nothing more important than blinking a cursor." --William Dickens http://www.feedmag.com/html/feedline/98.07dickens/98.07dickens_master.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 9 18:17:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23794 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 18:17:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23765 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 18:17:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA08459; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:46:41 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA14159; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:46:32 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980810104631.O11095@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:46:31 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: djv@bedford.net Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD References: <19980810083046.K11095@freebie.lemis.com> <199808100006.UAA07079@lucy.bedford.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199808100006.UAA07079@lucy.bedford.net>; from djv@bedford.net on Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 08:06:41PM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 9 August 1998 at 20:06:41 -0400, djv@bedford.net wrote: >> No, Stretch was the 7030, and predated the 360/ by a number > > Ah, yes. > >> of years. Supposedly the first machine to achieve 1 MIPS, but it >> didn't quite make it. >> >>> was quite snappy in its time. The apps I ran (numerical) were by >>> definition CPU bound, anyway. This was a 2 of a kind unit (one for >>> NSA, one for Los Alamos IIRC), with a hotrod CPU and a big load of >>> memory, how much I've forgotten (128MB? More?), which IIRC was made >>> of discrete transistors. > > Small ICs then. Oh well. I don't even know if it was air or water > cooled. What would you estimate for bits/chip? No idea. I've never seen one of them. If it was MOS, I'd guess 256 bits. Could be as high as 1024. >> I've never heard of discrete transistor memory of any size. The >> System/360 was the first machine in the world to use integrated >> circuits in a serious way, but it's possible they made exceptions in >> strange machines like the 360/195. > > When they broke up the /195, I had a chance to get a memory board > as a souvenir, but I was sick of it by then. Should have got one! > There were /lots/ of them. The thing filled a very large computer > installation. (disk farm, rows of tape drives, line printers, > (I think they even had a page printer of some kind on it), terminal > equipment, card readers/punches). Right. I still have some old 370/158 boards floating around somewhere. They're *very* different from other manufacturer's boards. They were using surface mount even then, and they were all in square cases with aluminium covers. >>> I think it was faster than its contemporaries in the 370 series. The >>> Navy kept it running until ~1986, I believe the power bill was why >>> they shut it down. :-) (It was at the PAX NATC in S. Maryland). >> >> Yes, the 360/195 wasn't really a 360 (all other 360s had model numbers >> under 100, all 370s over 100). I've forgotten the details, but for a >> 360 it really moved. It probably had over 1 MIPS. > > Oh, more than that I think. It was definitely faster than a VAX > 11/780. It may have gone through CPU upgrades while at NSA, too. > (I didn't meet it until around 1980, when it had gone to the Navy.) > It's also possible that the original specs were deliberately > understated, too. I don't think they would have understated the specs of the /195. It's known that they did for other processors (ISTR that the 370/145 and /155 were the same processor bar the clocking, but my memory could be defective). But the /195 was to show just how fast they could be. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 10 06:20:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10406 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 06:20:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA10401 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 06:20:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id PAA17647; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:15:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA24436; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:13:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980810141313.A24154@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:13:13 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Allen Campbell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WP8 References: <35CE144F.514B9C95@verinet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <35CE144F.514B9C95@verinet.com>; from Allen Campbell on Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:27:43PM -0600 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:27:43PM -0600, Allen Campbell wrote: > The WordPerfect 8 Prerelease for Linux is now available. It runs fine > under FreeBSD RELENG-2.2 with Linux compatibility. The distribution is > some 38MB: > ftp://ftp.sdcorp.com/pub/demos/linux/wp8prerelease/linuxgui8.tar.gz fine ;-) -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 10 06:34:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11491 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 06:34:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (intschool.easynet.co.uk [194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11485 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 06:34:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (bamboo [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13483; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:24:14 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35CEF476.37B76B24@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:24:06 +0100 From: Stuart Henderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andreas Klemm CC: Allen Campbell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WP8 References: <35CE144F.514B9C95@verinet.com> <19980810141313.A24154@klemm.gtn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andreas Klemm wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:27:43PM -0600, Allen Campbell wrote: > > The WordPerfect 8 Prerelease for Linux is now available. It runs fine > > under FreeBSD RELENG-2.2 with Linux compatibility. The distribution is > > some 38MB: > > ftp://ftp.sdcorp.com/pub/demos/linux/wp8prerelease/linuxgui8.tar.gz > > fine ;-) pht's mirror is (a lot) faster at the moment. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 10 12:47:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22873 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from titus.stade.co.uk (stade.demon.co.uk [158.152.29.164]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22858 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:47:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aw1@stade.co.uk) Received: (from aw1@localhost) by titus.stade.co.uk (8.9.1/8.8.8) id UAA11400 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:35:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from aw1) Message-ID: <19980810203516.B7341@stade.co.uk> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:35:16 +0100 From: Adrian Wontroba To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Reply-To: aw1@stade.co.uk References: <19980809104012.P14475@freebie.lemis.com> <19980810083241.L11095@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19980810083241.L11095@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 08:32:41AM +0930 Organization: Stade Computers Ltd, UK X-Phone: +(44) 121 681 6677 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 08:32:41AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > Oh, sure, when you have multiple CPUs. I think we were talking about > software multiplexing a physical system. It can be done - several ICL 2900 series mainframes concurrently ran two different operating systems, with different underlying instruction sets, on a single CPU (OCP). This allowed people to get rid of their old hardware sooner. The software multiplexing was performed by the OCP microcode. -- Adrian Wontroba, Stade Computers Limited. phone: (+44) 121 681 6677 Mail info@accu.org for information about the Association of C and C++ Users or see To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 10 16:39:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19971 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:39:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19920 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA11653; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:08:39 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA20241; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:08:38 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980811090838.D20188@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:08:38 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: aw1@stade.co.uk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD References: <19980809104012.P14475@freebie.lemis.com> <19980810083241.L11095@freebie.lemis.com> <19980810203516.B7341@stade.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980810203516.B7341@stade.co.uk>; from Adrian Wontroba on Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 08:35:16PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 10 August 1998 at 20:35:16 +0100, Adrian Wontroba wrote: > On Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 08:32:41AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> Oh, sure, when you have multiple CPUs. I think we were talking about >> software multiplexing a physical system. > > It can be done - several ICL 2900 series mainframes concurrently ran > two different operating systems, with different underlying instruction > sets, on a single CPU (OCP). This allowed people to get rid of their old > hardware sooner. > > The software multiplexing was performed by the OCP microcode. Sure, that technique's not new. But it's not what IBM was using. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 10 18:09:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05524 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:09:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ns1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05519 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:09:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thomma@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h016b.s86b1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.1.107] (may be forged)) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16863 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fedex.engwest.baynetworks.com (fedex.engwest.baynetworks.com [134.177.110.46]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA20695 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carrera.engwest (carrera.engwest.baynetworks.com) by fedex.engwest.baynetworks.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) Received: from localhost by carrera.engwest (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA08175; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:06:35 -0700 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Pentium Pro Overdrive upgrade X-Mailer: Mew version 1.92 on Emacs 19.28 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19980810180635R.thomma@baynetworks.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:06:35 -0700 From: Tamiji Homma X-Dispatcher: imput version 971024 Lines: 17 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I just came to know that Intel finally(?) announced Pentium Pro(socket 8) overdrive processor today (Aug. 10, 1998). http://www.intel.com/overdrive/piiodp/ Well, it is already very impressive ftp.cdrom.com supports more than 3000 users but I wonder if CPU of ftp.cdrom.com will be upgraded and support 1000 more users? What will be the bottleneck? CPU/memory/network/disk? I'm just curious. PS: It's expensive, $599! I'll wait for a while :-) Tammy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 11 06:11:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA27553 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 06:11:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA27543 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 06:11:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10691 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:11:31 +0100 (BST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA12220; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:10:48 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19980811141047.B12106@iii.co.uk> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:10:47 +0100 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fun things to do in /etc/rc.shutdown. . . Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org # # site-specific shutdown actions # # $Id$ # echo Oh my God, you killed `hostname -s`. You bastard. Think I've been watching too much South Park. N -- "So it does!" said Pooh. "It goes in!" "So it does!" said Piglet. "And it comes out!" "Doesn't it?" said Eeyore. "It goes in and out like anything." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 11 08:45:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23025 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:45:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23006; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:45:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07619; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:44:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980811084429.A7551@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:44:29 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-sf@arachna.com Subject: August BAFUG head count Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heads up! I need a head count of people who are planning on attending Thursdays meeting. This is so I'll have some idea how much pizza, soda, and coffee to get. If you could respond by Thursday Noon it would be very helpful. Our normally scheduled hacking will now continue. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 11 09:40:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01206 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:40:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01200 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:40:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA17865; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:39:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808111639.KAA17865@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.44 (Beta) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:39:22 -0600 To: nik@iii.co.uk, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fun things to do in /etc/rc.shutdown. . . In-Reply-To: <19980811141047.B12106@iii.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Or, for the nostalgic: %DECSystem-20 fall down, go BOOM! --Brett At 02:10 PM 8/11/98 +0100, nik@iii.co.uk wrote: > # > # site-specific shutdown actions > # > # $Id$ > # > > echo Oh my God, you killed `hostname -s`. You bastard. > >Think I've been watching too much South Park. > >N >-- >"So it does!" said Pooh. "It goes in!" >"So it does!" said Piglet. "And it comes out!" >"Doesn't it?" said Eeyore. "It goes in and out like anything." > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 11 10:54:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08464 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:54:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lucy.bedford.net (lucy.bedford.net [206.99.145.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08438 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:54:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from listread@lucy.bedford.net) Received: (from listread@localhost) by lucy.bedford.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18638; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:28:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from listread) Message-Id: <199808111728.NAA18638@lucy.bedford.net> Subject: Re: Pentium Pro Overdrive upgrade In-Reply-To: <19980810180635R.thomma@baynetworks.com> from Tamiji Homma at "Aug 10, 98 06:06:35 pm" To: thomma@BayNetworks.COM (Tamiji Homma) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:28:30 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-no-archive: yes Reply-to: djv@bedford.net From: CyberPeasant X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tamiji Homma wrote: > Hello, > > I just came to know that Intel finally(?) announced > Pentium Pro(socket 8) overdrive processor today (Aug. 10, 1998). > > http://www.intel.com/overdrive/piiodp/ > ... > PS: It's expensive, $599! I'll wait for a while :-) > > Tammy I'm waiting for the flood of used PPro 200's. Dave -- Bedford County, PA -- 47,000 polite, friendly Appalachians, 4,000 of whom have concealed-carry permits. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 11 21:32:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16639 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:32:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nexus.astro.psu.edu (nexus.astro.psu.edu [128.118.147.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA16630 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:32:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@astro.psu.edu) Received: from mstar.astro.psu.edu by nexus.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Nexus-1.3) id AA07557; Wed, 12 Aug 98 00:32:11 EDT Received: by mstar.astro.psu.edu (SMI-8.6/Client-1.3) id AAA26577; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:32:04 -0400 Message-Id: <19980812003204.A26527@astro.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:32:04 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Jerry Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is Intel EtherExpress PRO/100 Mobile Adapter supported? References: <007901bdc595$73e33130$0d787880@apex> <199808120331.XAA09287@jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <199808120331.XAA09287@jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com>; from Jerry Hicks on Tue, Aug 11, 1998 at 11:31:46PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Aug 11, 1998 at 11:31:46PM -0400, Jerry Hicks wrote: > http://developer.intel.com/design/network/datashts/ I did not, on my first attempt, parse that as "data sheets". I instead pictured a sort of digital gastrointestinal disorder akin to a "buffer overrun". Score another one for eight-character filenames. -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property of matter. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 03:19:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA05708 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 03:19:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA05666 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 03:19:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA17132; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:48:43 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id TAA29253; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:48:40 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980812194840.M28142@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:48:40 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Nick Hibma Cc: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: solaris is free. References: <19980812014614.B16463@mooseriver.com> <19980812022936.A16972@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19980812022936.A16972@mooseriver.com>; from Josef Grosch on Wed, Aug 12, 1998 at 02:29:37AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (following up to -chat, where it belonged from the start) On Wednesday, 12 August 1998 at 2:29:37 -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Wed, Aug 12, 1998 at 11:06:25AM +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: >>>> Note that this is only free in the sense that you can buy it >>>> for a low cost from Sun. >>>> >>>> You don't get source. >>>> >>>> You don't get the ability to give copies to other people. >>> >>> My guess is that Sun is beginning to feel the heat from FreeBSD and >>> Linux. Last time I looked very few people we running Solaris on X86. Mayby >>> they are starting to worry about all those older Sparc's running NetBSD. >> >> To be honest, x86 SOlaris has always been a bit a forgotten child in the >> Sun family. > > Given the speed of Solaris on x86 I'm not surprised. When I was contracting > at Sun earlier this year I went around installing FreeBSD on machines that > were running Solaris. Even hard core Sun people were surprised at how much > faster FreeBSD ran. I had lunch with a group of ISPs today, and two of them were telling me how they had more or less completed their migration from Linux to FreeBSD, mainly because of the stability of FreeBSD SCSI support. One thing they were really missing was kernel threads: they found that a Linux box maxed out at about 25 hits per second, and the same box would pass 90 hits per second because of kernel threading. They hadn't been able to max it out under FreeBSD, but there was no reason to believe it would perform as well as Solaris. Solaris isn't all bad. I'm getting the feeling that threads and MP support are going to make or break FreeBSD. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 04:52:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA18948 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 04:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA18943 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 04:52:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA01119; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:51:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:51:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch To: Greg Lehey cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Nick Hibma , FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: solaris is free. In-Reply-To: <19980812194840.M28142@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org yeh, I've had no problems with Solaris x86 at all, at IDT we used to run it for the IRC server, and a few other things (including the new GEnie stuff) (I no longer work there, thank god) I run this machine at home triple boot 98/FreeBSD/Solx86 and its not bad either.... I still prefer FreeBSD though.... its also not *too* much of a "forgotten child" at Sun since they are pusing Solaris for Intel lately alot more than they used to.... ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > (following up to -chat, where it belonged from the start) > > On Wednesday, 12 August 1998 at 2:29:37 -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 12, 1998 at 11:06:25AM +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: > >>>> Note that this is only free in the sense that you can buy it > >>>> for a low cost from Sun. > >>>> > >>>> You don't get source. > >>>> > >>>> You don't get the ability to give copies to other people. > >>> > >>> My guess is that Sun is beginning to feel the heat from FreeBSD and > >>> Linux. Last time I looked very few people we running Solaris on X86. Mayby > >>> they are starting to worry about all those older Sparc's running NetBSD. > >> > >> To be honest, x86 SOlaris has always been a bit a forgotten child in the > >> Sun family. > > > > Given the speed of Solaris on x86 I'm not surprised. When I was contracting > > at Sun earlier this year I went around installing FreeBSD on machines that > > were running Solaris. Even hard core Sun people were surprised at how much > > faster FreeBSD ran. > > I had lunch with a group of ISPs today, and two of them were telling > me how they had more or less completed their migration from Linux to > FreeBSD, mainly because of the stability of FreeBSD SCSI support. One > thing they were really missing was kernel threads: they found that a > Linux box maxed out at about 25 hits per second, and the same box > would pass 90 hits per second because of kernel threading. They > hadn't been able to max it out under FreeBSD, but there was no reason > to believe it would perform as well as Solaris. > > Solaris isn't all bad. I'm getting the feeling that threads and MP > support are going to make or break FreeBSD. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 05:17:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA20864 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 05:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (intschool.easynet.co.uk [194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA20858 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 05:17:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (bamboo [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23414; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:10:16 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35D1862C.7B944B88@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:10:20 +0100 From: Stuart Henderson Organization: http://www.internationalschool.co.uk/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pat Lynch CC: Greg Lehey , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Nick Hibma , FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: solaris is free. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pat Lynch wrote: > > its also not *too* much of a "forgotten child" at Sun since they are > pusing Solaris for Intel lately alot more than they used to.... considering many current Windows users just want something a bit more stable but still easy to use, couldn't care less whether they get source, and Sun's recent work with InstallShield, there are probably a lot of people that will be pretty interested in Solaris... I didn't see the original message (presumably on -hackers?) - if a URL was given there, could someone repost it to chat please? tia Stuart -- Every man and every woman is a star. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 06:33:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA27790 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 06:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA27784 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 06:33:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id PAA06598; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:32:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:32:04 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Stuart Henderson Cc: Pat Lynch , Greg Lehey , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Nick Hibma , FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: solaris is free. References: <35D1862C.7B944B88@internationalschool.co.uk> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 12 Aug 1998 15:32:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: Stuart Henderson's message of "Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:10:20 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id GAA27786 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stuart Henderson writes: > considering many current Windows users just want something a bit more > stable but still easy to use, couldn't care less whether they get > source, and Sun's recent work with InstallShield, there are probably a > lot of people that will > be pretty interested in Solaris... >From that perspective, Solaris x86 can be seen as an entry point to FreeBSD and the other free Unices. It will certainly give Unix in general more exposure, and people with Solaris experience who want a low-cost Unix for purposes disallowed by the free Solaris license will turn to us. Or am I daydreaming? DES "this message was brought to you by Solaris 2.5.1" -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 10:37:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04299 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:37:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orkan.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04288 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:37:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by orkan.canonware.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA17315; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:36:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:36:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: MP & kernel threads (Was Re: solaris is free.) In-Reply-To: <19980812194840.M28142@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > I had lunch with a group of ISPs today, and two of them were telling > me how they had more or less completed their migration from Linux to > FreeBSD, mainly because of the stability of FreeBSD SCSI support. One > thing they were really missing was kernel threads: they found that a > Linux box maxed out at about 25 hits per second, and the same box > would pass 90 hits per second because of kernel threading. They > hadn't been able to max it out under FreeBSD, but there was no reason > to believe it would perform as well as Solaris. > > Solaris isn't all bad. I'm getting the feeling that threads and MP > support are going to make or break FreeBSD. Yes, I agree that (kernel) threads and MP are critical to present and future performance. As a case in point, I've been writing database code for which the performance completely depends on kernel threads. I figured that by the time I really needed the kernel threads in order to do performance testing that they would be there, but large portions of my code are almost working now, and still no kernel threads. =( Time to try hacking on the kernel, I guess. Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 12:52:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29066 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:52:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.133.1] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29043 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:52:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00995; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:48:28 +0200 (CEST) To: Pat Parrinello cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Um..this looks like it belongs on freebsd-chat, not security. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:29:06 CDT." <199808121836.NAA01947@anne.crossfields.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:48:27 +0200 Message-ID: <992.902951307@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199808121836.NAA01947@anne.crossfields.com>, Pat Parrinello writes: > "Um..this looks like it belongs on freebsd-chat, not security." > > You are an excellent judge of security issues, John. You work > for Microsoft? > > Yeah, you are right. Chat. Not security. > > From the "chat" on freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG I would surmise > the following also belongs on freebsd-chat. This does indeed belong in -chat, if anywhere around here. There is nothing FreeBSD related in it at all. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 15:09:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22326 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:09:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22315 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:09:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA09286; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:08:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:08:04 -0400 (EDT) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Josef Grosch cc: Marc Slemko , Warner Losh , jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: solaris is free. In-Reply-To: <19980812014614.B16463@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: > > My guess is that Sun is beginning to feel the heat from FreeBSD and > Linux. Last time I looked very few people we running Solaris on X86. Mayby > they are starting to worry about all those older Sparc's running NetBSD. I'd like to think so, but IMHO solaris x86 has never been a winner for SUN. I doubt they have much to loose by this move. SCO has and continues to dominate the commercial intel unix world. SCO also has had the same type of offer open for both UnixWare and OpenDeathtrap for a year or so now. They have much more to loose in the intel market. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 15:19:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23597 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:19:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23592 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:19:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA27586; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:25:14 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199808122225.IAA27586@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: solaris is free. In-Reply-To: from ADRIAN Filipi-Martin at "Aug 12, 98 06:08:04 pm" To: adrian@ubergeeks.com Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:25:14 +1000 (EST) Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, marcs@znep.com, imp@village.org, jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ADRIAN Filipi-Martin wrote: > I'd like to think so, but IMHO solaris x86 has never been a winner > for SUN. I doubt they have much to loose by this move. SCO has and > continues to dominate the commercial intel unix world. SCO also has had > the same type of offer open for both UnixWare and OpenDeathtrap for a year > or so now. They have much more to loose in the intel market. And if SCO sets the standard that people expect, they should be impressed by FreeBSD. I hadn't used SCO for years and when the free licence for non-commercial purposes became available, their local agent persuaded me to try it. I put the CD in an ATAPI drive in a machine where the bios was not CD aware. Booting from the install floppy, there was no ATAPI support. Another drink coaster.... 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 16:35:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05174 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:35:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05164 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:35:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-180.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.180]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA05425 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:35:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06434 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:13:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199808122313.SAA06434@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: solaris is free. In-reply-to: Message from Jim Bryant of "Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:37:34 CDT." <199808120437.XAA12411@unix.tfs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:13:09 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jim Bryant writes: > i haven't seen any traffic on this list concerning this, but this is > interesting. > > sun, the day before yesterday has made solaris for both x86 and sparc > free [shipping and handling like $10], for personal use. Specifically its $10.00 for the CD's. Then $8.50 is the least expensive domestic shipping. What the heck? I ordered a copy. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 16:51:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07423 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:51:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07414 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06526; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:50:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199808122350.SAA06526@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: solaris is free. In-Reply-To: <19980812194840.M28142@lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Aug 12, 98 07:48:40 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:50:43 -0500 (EST) Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, nick.hibma@jrc.it, FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey said: > > Solaris isn't all bad. I'm getting the feeling that threads and MP > support are going to make or break FreeBSD. > I agree. I am working on threads right now (and threads only) for work. It will be targeted to our own NetBSD version, but will be initially developed on FreeBSD. I AM making progress, and will be using some of JB's work. RE: SMP, the code just needs to be fixed in the areas that I suggest, and hold off until a more distributed and SMP based OS will be ready for use :-). If you think that my VM work was radical -- a "true" SMP kernel based upon the FreeBSD code would be very very radical. IMO, SMP requires a rework, and that is what I am doing in my spare time now. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 16:52:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07657 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:52:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07641 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:52:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16588; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:51:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199808122351.RAA16588@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: solaris is free. In-Reply-To: <199808122313.SAA06434@nospam.hiwaay.net> from David Kelly at "Aug 12, 98 06:13:09 pm" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net (David Kelly) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Jim Bryant writes: > > i haven't seen any traffic on this list concerning this, but this is > > interesting. > > > > sun, the day before yesterday has made solaris for both x86 and sparc > > free [shipping and handling like $10], for personal use. > > Specifically its $10.00 for the CD's. Then $8.50 is the least expensive > domestic shipping. What the heck? I ordered a copy. Me too. What the heck? Sun's state purpose for doing this was two-fold: to get (and keep) people educated in Solaris, and to make sure price isn't a reason to not make freeware (including open source software) available for Solaris. For instance, David Green-Seed can now make his FreeBSD CDplayer available for Solaris. (He ported it to Linux after I mailed him a free OpenLinux Lite CD-ROM.) I'm *certain* it won't convince him to move his primary development efforts from FreeBSD to Slowlaris, but it might convince him to port. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 17:18:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10449 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:18:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cia.net.au ([203.17.36.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10410 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:17:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alastair@cia.com.au) Received: from clarence.progmatics.com.au ([203.28.49.193]) by cia.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA26290 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:12:52 +1000 Received: from alastair (192.168.0.67) by clarence.progmatics.com.au (Worldmail 1.3.167); 13 Aug 1998 10:17:13 +1000 Message-ID: <359F0E1C00000331@clarence.progmatics.com.au> (added by clarence.progmatics.com.au) X-Sender: alastair@mail.cia.com.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.44 (Beta) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:17:10 +1000 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin From: Alastair Rankine Subject: Re: solaris is free. Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <19980812014614.B16463@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:08 PM 12/08/98 -0400, you wrote: >> My guess is that Sun is beginning to feel the heat from FreeBSD and >> Linux. Last time I looked very few people we running Solaris on X86. Mayby >> they are starting to worry about all those older Sparc's running NetBSD. > > I'd like to think so, but IMHO solaris x86 has never been a winner >for SUN. I doubt they have much to loose by this move. SCO has and >continues to dominate the commercial intel unix world. SCO also has had >the same type of offer open for both UnixWare and OpenDeathtrap for a year >or so now. They have much more to loose in the intel market. I think we're seeing a trend emerging here. Company has commercial Product. Due to commercial pressures, Company is unable to make profit from Product. In the past Company would simply announce "maintenance mode" for Product. Now, Company simply releases source code or makes it free or something along those lines, and reaps the benefit in good PR. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to fall: Company drops Product. It seems unlikely to me that Company would all-of-a-sudden grok the idea behind free/open software and be able to radically change their business to suit. Even if they do grok the idea, companies, especially big ones like Sun and Netscape, don't change direction very quickly. Their inertia simply prevents them from radically changing their core business from selling software to, err, not selling software. Pretty soon they'll realise "wow, we spent a shitload of money developing software and got no return on it". Then the blame will be laid on the free (open source, whatever) software idea and the backlash will start. Netscape is really out on a limb, not just for it's own survival, but for the credibility of open software. This is a shame because their new direction, the Netscape "portal", is simply the latest attempt to turn the Internet into a TV. This is bad. A few large corporations already have dominance over all other forms of media. The Internet is not (yet) dominated by corporate interests, and I would like it to stay that way. But that's a rant for another day... (Just my opinions, worth what you paid for 'em :) -- [ Alastair Rankine ] [ mailto:alastair@cia.com.au ] [ http://www.cia.com.au/alastair ] [ pgp5 64E4 B67C D2B7 EEC4 63C9 AA74 F63A 9AD9 E44B 21C7 ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 17:34:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11907 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:34:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11902 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:34:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id RAA34852; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:34:13 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id RAA31449; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:31:04 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: Jason Evans cc: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MP & kernel threads (Was Re: solaris is free.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As long as we are on the topic of threads, and SMP let me add one element. How does all of this relate to the duke.edu trapeze project? Specifically, I am interested in their claim to enable "physical resource sharing (e.g., idle processors and idle memory)". It seems to me (non kernel hacker type) that these items are all somewhat related. Also, they claim a "Standard BSD copyright" at http://www.cs.duke.edu/ari/manic/tpz_www/trapeze_root.html but there files are lcoked away. I will get back to you on this. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ | 206-633-5994 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 19:08:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20819 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:08:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20810 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:08:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA09623; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:08:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:08:14 -0400 (EDT) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Alastair Rankine cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: solaris is free. In-Reply-To: <359F0E1C00000331@clarence.progmatics.com.au> (added by clarence.progmatics.com.au) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Alastair Rankine wrote: > At 06:08 PM 12/08/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> My guess is that Sun is beginning to feel the heat from FreeBSD and > >> Linux. Last time I looked very few people we running Solaris on X86. Mayby > >> they are starting to worry about all those older Sparc's running NetBSD. > > > > I'd like to think so, but IMHO solaris x86 has never been a winner > >for SUN. I doubt they have much to loose by this move. SCO has and > >continues to dominate the commercial intel unix world. SCO also has had > >the same type of offer open for both UnixWare and OpenDeathtrap for a year > >or so now. They have much more to loose in the intel market. > > I think we're seeing a trend emerging here. Company has commercial Product. > Due to commercial pressures, Company is unable to make profit from Product. > In the past Company would simply announce "maintenance mode" for Product. > Now, Company simply releases source code or makes it free or something > along those lines, and reaps the benefit in good PR. > > I'm still waiting for the other shoe to fall: Company drops Product. Sun never said that they were giving away the soruce code. Neither is SCO. They are just using the same approach that has worked so wel in the past. i.e. If I use X operating system at home, I'll probably want to use X at work if given a choice. > Netscape is really out on a limb, not just for it's own survival, but for > the credibility of open software. Again, Netscape isn't throwing out the baby with the bath water. Basically the revenues for the particular product became insignificant with respect to their other products. If you don't expect to make any money from a particular product, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have greater strategic value. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 20:03:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27337 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA27318 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA00663; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:32:34 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA01144; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:32:22 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980813123222.L496@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:32:22 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: chris/reman , Nick Hibma Cc: Josef Grosch , FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: solaris is free. References: <35D1A991.26389012@student.unsw.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <35D1A991.26389012@student.unsw.edu.au>; from chris/reman on Thu, Aug 13, 1998 at 12:41:21AM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (following up in -chat) On Thursday, 13 August 1998 at 0:41:21 +1000, chris/reman wrote: > Nick Hibma wrote: > >> To be honest, x86 SOlaris has always been a bit a forgotten child in the >> Sun family. Sun likes to ship complete systems they can reliably >> support. Giving supports to PC weenies is not one of their favourite >> hobbies. > > Thats funny, because the uni. where I am at (UNSW, Sydney) the comp sci labs were > originally running (and still is) a mix of decstations and labtams running SunOS, > when they redid their workstations upstairs they bought p200's and stuck x86 > SunOS on them, weird eh. Interesting. I wonder if that felt more like SunOS 4 than FreeBSD does. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 20:16:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29602 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:16:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA29567 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA00712; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:45:07 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA01592; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:45:08 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980813124508.C1147@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:45:08 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Stuart Henderson , Pat Lynch Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Nick Hibma , FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: solaris is free. References: <35D1862C.7B944B88@internationalschool.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <35D1862C.7B944B88@internationalschool.co.uk>; from Stuart Henderson on Wed, Aug 12, 1998 at 01:10:20PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 X-Mutt-References: <35D1862C.7B944B88@internationalschool.co.uk> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 12 August 1998 at 13:10:20 +0100, Stuart Henderson wrote: > Pat Lynch wrote: >> >> its also not *too* much of a "forgotten child" at Sun since they are >> pusing Solaris for Intel lately alot more than they used to.... (mangled mail format corrected) > considering many current Windows users just want something a bit > more stable but still easy to use, couldn't care less whether they > get source, and Sun's recent work with InstallShield, there are > probably a lot of people that will be pretty interested in > Solaris... > > I didn't see the original message (presumably on -hackers?) - if a > URL was given there, could someone repost it to chat please? tia They didn't specify a URL, suggested you went to sun.com and looked for yourself. I couldn't be bothered. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 12 21:11:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05971 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05959 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:11:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au) Received: (from ncb05@localhost) by banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA16898; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:08:47 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:08:46 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: solaris is free. In-Reply-To: <19980813124508.C1147@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The url is http://www.sun.com/edu/solaris/ Nick -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au - http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~nick Key fingerprint = DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A "When in doubt, ask someone wiser than yourself..." -unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 13 05:39:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA23440 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 05:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tig.com.au (mail.tig.com.au [209.76.102.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA23434 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 05:39:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from z2172268@student.unsw.edu.au) Received: from student.unsw.edu.au (p30-max8.syd.ihug.com.au [209.79.138.94]) by tig.com.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA18063; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:38:21 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <35D2DDC9.11FFCA15@student.unsw.edu.au> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:36:25 +1000 From: chris/reman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: Nick Hibma , Josef Grosch , FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: solaris is free. References: <35D1A991.26389012@student.unsw.edu.au> <19980813123222.L496@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > (following up in -chat) > > On Thursday, 13 August 1998 at 0:41:21 +1000, chris/reman wrote: > > Nick Hibma wrote: > > > >> To be honest, x86 SOlaris has always been a bit a forgotten child in the > >> Sun family. Sun likes to ship complete systems they can reliably > >> support. Giving supports to PC weenies is not one of their favourite > >> hobbies. > > > > Thats funny, because the uni. where I am at (UNSW, Sydney) the comp sci labs were > > originally running (and still is) a mix of decstations and labtams running SunOS, > > when they redid their workstations upstairs they bought p200's and stuck x86 > > SunOS on them, weird eh. > > Interesting. I wonder if that felt more like SunOS 4 than FreeBSD Funnily enough when I set FreeBSD up at home, I whacked Xwindows and Afterstep on it, it looked exactly the same except my comp was a 486 66 with 24 Mb RAM, and it was going only slightly slower that these beasts p200 + 64 megs, then when I upgraded to a 686 166 + 32megs woooooooo it flew. I can definately see why people prefer FreeBSD over SunOS or solaris regards, chris -- Christopher Day E-Mail the_reman@hotmail.com Homepage http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/1218 when the rain/when the children reign/keep your conscience in the dark melt the statues in the park - Fall On Me, REM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 13 08:01:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08454 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from acetylene.vapornet.net (acetylene.vapornet.net [209.100.218.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08449 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:01:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@acetylene.vapornet.net) Received: from nitromethane.vapornet.net (vapornet.xnet.com. [205.243.141.107]) by acetylene.vapornet.net (8.9.1/VaporServer v3.3) with ESMTP id KAA01636 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:01:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from john) Received: (from john@localhost) by nitromethane.vapornet.net (8.8.8/VaporClient-1.1) id KAA07137; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:01:26 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from john) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:01:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808131501.KAA07137@nitromethane.vapornet.net> From: John Preisler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UDP port 31337 In-Reply-To: References: <199808121700.LAA00346@lariat.lariat.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org moved to -chat where it belongs also, while countermeasures seem like a neat idea, it doesnt make you Part Of The Solution, it makes you Part Of The Problem. More of the same is not the answer in an attack on your service. -j Nicholas Charles Brawn writes: > On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > > > If someone's trying to BO you, they deserve worse. > > > > How about a daemon that sends fatal packets back TO the machine running BO? > > I'm sure that these punks haven't protected their code adequately against > > buffer overflows, etc. > > > > --Brett > > The company formerly known as SNI (now integrated into NAI) wrote a > paper on Intrusion Detection Systems a while ago which discouraged this > attitude. Their argument focused on the fact that what if someone > *knows* that this is the response that will be sent if your daemon > detects a connection attempt. Don't forget how easily udp packets can be > forged... > > Nick > > -- > Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au - http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~nick > Key fingerprint = DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A > "When in doubt, ask someone wiser than yourself..." -unknown > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe security" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 00:02:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06355 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:02:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.seidata.com (ns1.seidata.com [208.10.211.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06310 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:02:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by ns1.seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA11986 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:02:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD and Laptops Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Just curious about individuals' experiences with FreeBSD's compatibility with laptops. I've heard a lot of good things, and have successfully installed it on an HP 5000 series myself. I'm wanting to purchase a low- to mid-range system (doncha just love budgets ;) that will work well with FreeBSD, and would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance... -mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 02:05:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA22992 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 02:05:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA22972; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 02:05:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA06600; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 02:04:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980814020436.A6561@mooseriver.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 02:04:36 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Count Page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry for the cross post but freebsd-announce does not seem to be working. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= FreeBSD Counter Project The FreeBSD Counter project and BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) have put up the first public beta of it's counter page. The Counter project is an attempt to gauge the installed base of FreeBSD. We current do not have a very good idea as to what is our installed base, how FreeBSD is being used and by whom. Because of this, FreeBSD is at a disadvantage when talking to ISVs and hardware and software vendors. You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can be found at : http://superior.mooseriver.com/FbsdCounter.html Couple of caveats: * This is a beta release. It is not perfect and will have a few bugs and flaws. If you find any please let us know. * You will be talking to a web server over a slow connection (28.8KB). Do NOT expect miracles! When most of the bugs and kinks have been shook out, the page will be moved to a machine with a faster connection (T1 or T3) * Suggestions and comments are welcome! * Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the project, FreeBSD core group, and Walnut Creek CDROM will ever see this information. It will not be handed over to spamers, direct marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos. Josef (jgrosch@MooseRiver.com) -- $Id: CounterPageAnnounce.txt,v 1.2 1998/08/12 09:19:20 jgrosch Exp $ -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 03:32:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01991 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:32:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from notabene.zer0.org (sac-port102.jps.net [209.63.255.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA01974 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:32:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@n1.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by notabene.zer0.org (8.8.7/8.8.8) id DAA12048; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:31:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19980814033123.E8967@notabene.zer0.org> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:31:23 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Mike , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Laptops References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Mike on Fri, Aug 14, 1998 at 03:02:35AM -0400 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Aug 14, 1998 at 03:02:35AM -0400, Mike wrote: > Hello, > > Just curious about individuals' experiences with FreeBSD's compatibility > with laptops. I've heard a lot of good things, and have successfully > installed it on an HP 5000 series myself. I'm wanting to purchase a low- > to mid-range system (doncha just love budgets ;) that will work well with > FreeBSD, and would appreciate any suggestions. 1. Don't get an HP laptop. The mouse devices supposedly don't work at all with FreeBSD, so a plug-in serial mouse must be used. I don't know if an HP 5000 is a laptop, but if it is, did the mouse work? 2. Check carefully the video chipset, to see if XFree86 supports it. You can find out at www.xfree86.org. That's all I know... somebody who owns a laptop might be able to better help you. Good luck! Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Bureaucrats cut red tape -- lengthwise. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 07:55:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06933 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 07:55:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from charon.khoral.com (charon.khoral.com [207.199.90.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA06927 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 07:55:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@khoral.com) Received: from zen.alb.khoral.com by charon.khoral.com via smtpd (for hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) with SMTP; 14 Aug 1998 14:54:44 UT Received: from khoral.com Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:54:33 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Jorgensen Message-Id: <199808141454.IAA16645@zen.alb.khoral.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Laptops To: gsutter@pobox.com (Gregory Sutter) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:54:33 -0600 (MDT) Cc: mike@seidata.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980814033123.E8967@notabene.zer0.org> from "Gregory Sutter" at Aug 14, 98 03:31:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gregory Sutter wrote >> On Fri, Aug 14, 1998 at 03:02:35AM -0400, Mike wrote: >> > Hello, >> > >> > Just curious about individuals' experiences with FreeBSD's compatibility >> > with laptops. I've heard a lot of good things, and have successfully >> > installed it on an HP 5000 series myself. I'm wanting to purchase a low- >> > to mid-range system (doncha just love budgets ;) that will work well with >> > FreeBSD, and would appreciate any suggestions. >> >> 1. Don't get an HP laptop. The mouse devices supposedly don't work at >> all with FreeBSD, so a plug-in serial mouse must be used. I don't know >> if an HP 5000 is a laptop, but if it is, did the mouse work? >> >> 2. Check carefully the video chipset, to see if XFree86 supports it. >> You can find out at www.xfree86.org. >> >> That's all I know... somebody who owns a laptop might be able to better >> help you. Good luck! We have a couple Micron transport xke's at work that work just fine with Freebsd. Don't know about the new Micron's though. Steve -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Steven Jorgensen steve@khoral.com steve@haunt.com ------------------------------+---------------------------- Khoral Research Inc. | PHONE: (505) 837-6500 6200 Uptown Blvd, Suite 200 | FAX: (505) 881-3842 Albuquerque, NM 87110 | URL: http://www.khoral.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 09:55:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26571 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:55:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po7.andrew.cmu.edu (PO7.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26566 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:55:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tcrimi+@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: (from postman@localhost) by po7.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.2) id MAA19195; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:53:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.60.Jun.27.1996.03.02.53.sun4.51.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4m.54 via MS.5.6.unix14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:53:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Valentino Crimi To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Mike Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Laptops In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've installed FreeBSD-PAO (www.jp.freebsd.org/PAO) on two IBM Thinkpads and the machines work just as well as any desktop counterparts. I am going to use one as a server this fall as I still dorm and it's hard to beat the silence of a laptop. I would have to someday wish PAO would merge into -current but I still love the work they've done. PCMCIA vendors seem to be as numerous and arbitrary as ISA vendors. I'm also happy to report that in the instances I've seen, PAO has better hardware support than Linux in reguard to Laptops. Not only better (as the support generally is, when it exists), but more comprehensive. Have fun, Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 15:17:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26318 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:17:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26260 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA21946; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:16:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:16:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Hauke Johannknecht cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 12.7. How cool is FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is going on -chat before this gets out of hand. On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Hauke Johannknecht wrote: > Penguins are defintely cooler than devils, just remember where both live. :) Chuck is not a demon, he's a daemon. Very, very different. See Kirk McKusick's page on the evolution of the daemon. And don't tell him I called him Chuck. :) Apparently Linus ditched the penguin's beer mug. Now it's a compile-time option to get the bird-with-beer logo (on PowerPC at least). Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 15:19:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27205 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:19:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beavis.inetdirect.net (beavis.inetdirect.net [204.120.164.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27116 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from timsarver@netdirect.net) From: timsarver@netdirect.net Received: from tim (tech6.netdirect.net [204.120.164.16]) by beavis.inetdirect.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA10446 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:18:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199808142218.RAA10446@beavis.inetdirect.net> X-Sender: timsarver@netdirect.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:19:53 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe freebsd-questions subscribe freebsd-announce END To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 15:22:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28111 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pobox.com (gyndine-74.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.83.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA27977 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:21:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamilton@pobox.com) Message-Id: <199808142221.PAA27977@hub.freebsd.org> Received: (qmail 11071 invoked from network); 14 Aug 1998 17:24:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (HELO pobox.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Aug 1998 17:24:33 -0500 To: Brett Glass cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 64-bit time_t In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:40:00 MDT." <199808141645.KAA24210@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:24:33 -0500 From: Jon Hamilton Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ redirected to -chat ] In message <199808141645.KAA24210@lariat.lariat.org>, Brett Glass wrote: } At 09:24 AM 8/14/98 +0000, Mike Smith wrote: } } >No, so much stuff is written in C because it's a good tool for the job. } } Don't want to get into language wars here, but in case the current rash } of security problems doesn't make it painfully obvious, C isn't a good } tool for ANYTHING. Oh, look, it's Brett spewing hyperbole. You can make the argument that C isn't a good tool for security critical code (though even that position is somewhat weak), but even if we accept that proposition, that doesn't make it a poor tool for non security critical code. Do you wear a chin pad to protect yourself from that knee jerking wildly all the time? -- Jon Hamilton hamilton@pobox.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 15:38:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02762 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:38:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02653 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA27617; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808142237.QAA27617@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.44 (Beta) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:37:10 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: 64-bit time_t Cc: Mike Smith , hamilton@pobox.com In-Reply-To: <199808142221.QAA27493@lariat.lariat.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:24 PM 8/14/98 -0500, Jon Hamilton wrote: >You can make the argument that C isn't a good tool for security critical code >(though even that position is somewhat weak), but even if we accept that >proposition, that doesn't make it a poor tool for non security critical code. I take it, then, that you believe it's fine for life support systems. >Do you wear a chin pad to protect yourself from that knee jerking wildly all >the time? Do you wear a helmet to protect yourself from constant software crashes? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 17:43:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25232 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:43:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.seidata.com (ns1.seidata.com [208.10.211.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25227 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:43:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by ns1.seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13050; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:43:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike To: Gregory Sutter cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Laptops In-Reply-To: <19980814033123.E8967@notabene.zer0.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Gregory Sutter wrote: Thanks for the response... > all with FreeBSD, so a plug-in serial mouse must be used. I don't know > if an HP 5000 is a laptop, but if it is, did the mouse work? Yes, I think it was a 5500 (5000 series) laptop. I tried this a month or so ago... the regular install was a pain to get started, but it went smoothly after some initial twiddling. I never installed X on it, so I'm not sure if the mouse functioned or not... I'll avoid HPs now, thanks for the tip. :) > 2. Check carefully the video chipset, to see if XFree86 supports it. > You can find out at www.xfree86.org. *nod* 3.3.2 has added a *lot* of support... Thanks again... -mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 21:32:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13934 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:32:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13929 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:32:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA21297; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:31:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <35D50F38.A2025F87@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:31:52 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug White CC: Hauke Johannknecht , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 12.7. How cool is FreeBSD? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug White wrote: > > This is going on -chat before this gets out of hand. > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Hauke Johannknecht wrote: > > > Penguins are defintely cooler than devils, just remember where both live. :) > By the same token, daemons are (obviously) HOTTER than penguins. Penguins are also much easier to club, stuff, and mount on the wall in your game room. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 14 21:57:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16175 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:57:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16170 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:57:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA29831; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:56:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:56:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Wes Peters cc: Hauke Johannknecht , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 12.7. How cool is FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <35D50F38.A2025F87@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > Doug White wrote: > > > > This is going on -chat before this gets out of hand. > > > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Hauke Johannknecht wrote: > > > > > Penguins are defintely cooler than devils, just remember where both live. :) > > > > By the same token, daemons are (obviously) HOTTER than penguins. > Penguins are also much easier to club, stuff, and mount on the wall > in your game room. ;^) This would have been *truly* bad if the Linux icon was a baby seal. >>:-> > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Speaking of hot places ... :-) Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 15 01:07:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA02918 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 01:07:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA02913 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 01:07:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA17967; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 04:06:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 04:06:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao X-Sender: taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca To: FREEBSD-CHAT Subject: AMD K6-3D "make buildworld" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, my new home machine is finally stable (first system had a bad CPU, as it turns out). It doesn't turn in anywhere near the fastest time, but it probably gives you the most bang for the buck; an $800 system builds world in less than 54 minutes. Over 3 million DES keys/sec if you overclock to 360 MHz. :) Has anyone benchmarked a Xeon or dual Xeon system yet? # date ; time make buildworld ; date Sat Aug 15 02:07:03 EDT 1998 -------------------------------------------------------------- Cleaning up the temporary build tree -------------------------------------------------------------- mkdir -p /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp chflags -R noschg /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/ rm -rf /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp [...nearly an hour passes...] ld -r -o tmp.o wcd.o symorder -c symb.tmp tmp.o mv tmp.o wcd_mod.o 3220.10 real 2357.94 user 539.70 sys Sat Aug 15 03:00:43 EDT 1998 /etc/make.conf has "CFLAGS=-O -pipe", built from a clean /usr/obj, 8MB mfs on /var/tmp, /usr/src and /usr/obj mounted async,noatime on a Seagate Medalist Pro 7200-rpm 9.1GB UDMA drive, 256MB RAM installed. 3.0-current from late May. AMD K6-3D running at 3x100-MHz on an AOpen AX59Pro motherboard with 1MB L2 cache. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 15 12:08:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26889 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26847 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:08:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id VAA23653; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:07:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:07:45 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Valentino Crimi Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Mike Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Laptops References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 15 Aug 1998 21:07:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: Thomas Valentino Crimi's message of "Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:53:20 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA26873 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thomas Valentino Crimi writes: > I've installed FreeBSD-PAO (www.jp.freebsd.org/PAO) on two IBM > Thinkpads and the machines work just as well as any desktop The Thinkpads work just as well with plain vanilla FreeBSD. No need to use PAO. DES (who runs -current on his 380E) -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 15 12:14:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28091 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:14:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28040 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:14:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id VAA23765; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:10:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:10:19 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Doug White Cc: Wes Peters , Hauke Johannknecht , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 12.7. How cool is FreeBSD? References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 15 Aug 1998 21:10:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: Doug White's message of "Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:56:31 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA28057 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug White writes: > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > Penguins are also much easier to club, stuff, and mount on the wall > > in your game room. ;^) > This would have been *truly* bad if the Linux icon was a baby seal. Why? We Norwegians do that all the time, didn't you know? DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 15 12:18:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28492 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:18:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28482 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:18:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id VAA24021; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:14:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:14:54 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Doug White Cc: Hauke Johannknecht , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 12.7. How cool is FreeBSD? References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 15 Aug 1998 21:14:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: Doug White's message of "Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:16:08 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA28485 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug White writes: > Apparently Linus ditched the penguin's beer mug. Now it's a compile-time > option to get the bird-with-beer logo (on PowerPC at least). I thought the "penguin with beer" thingy was a Bud Ice commercial? DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 15 12:23:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28926 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:23:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28920 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:23:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id VAA24419; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:23:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:23:00 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Tao Cc: FREEBSD-CHAT Subject: Re: AMD K6-3D "make buildworld" References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 15 Aug 1998 21:22:59 +0200 In-Reply-To: Brian Tao's message of "Sat, 15 Aug 1998 04:06:34 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA28921 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brian Tao writes: > [the following machine makes world in 54 minutes] > /etc/make.conf has "CFLAGS=-O -pipe", built from a clean /usr/obj, > 8MB mfs on /var/tmp, /usr/src and /usr/obj mounted async,noatime on a > Seagate Medalist Pro 7200-rpm 9.1GB UDMA drive, 256MB RAM installed. > 3.0-current from late May. AMD K6-3D running at 3x100-MHz on an AOpen > AX59Pro motherboard with 1MB L2 cache. You call that fast? fixus-ipv6.ifi.uio.no (Dell OptiPlex, single-CPU PII-233 MHz with 128 MB RAM and a 4 GB Maxtor IDE disk half of which is used by FreeBSD) builds world in 56 minutes, without soft updates (but with /usr/src and /usr/obj on separate file systems mounted async). I kinda thought you'd beat me by more than two minutes... Bigger isn't necessarily better. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 15 16:50:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04917 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:50:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from control.colossus.dyn.ml.org (206-18-112-178.la.inreach.net [206.18.112.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04871 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:50:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr@colossus.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from dburr@localhost) by control.colossus.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01466 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:49:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Computer Help From: Donald Burr To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FW: humor: How does a UNIX guru have sex? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Received from a friend... -----FW: ----- Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 01:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barbarians@adc-lists.apple.com From: Cory Krell To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: humor: How does a UNIX guru have sex? Q: How does a UNIX guru have sex? A: unzip;strip;touch;finger;mount;fsck;more;yes;umount;sleep --------------End of forwarded message------------------------- --- Donald Burr *NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!* | PGP: Your WWW HomePage: http://DonaldBurr.base.org/ ICQ#16997506 | right to Address: P.O. Box 91212, Santa Barbara, CA 93190-1212 | 'Net privacy. Phone: (805) 957-9666 FAX: (800) 492-5954 | USE IT. >>FreeBSD - Turning PCs into Workstations - http://www.freebsd.org/<< To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 15 18:59:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17558 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:59:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1718.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17553 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:59:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA05523; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:58:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:58:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Terry Lambert cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 64-bit time_t In-Reply-To: <199808160045.RAA15910@usr07.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Cc: trimmed and moved to -chat] On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > The difference between accuracy and precision is often hard to grasp. > > > > Actually, it's high-school science, now. At least around here. :) > > It's the secret they tell you after you get your PhD, here in the US... Grade 10 science. I still remember getting a kick out of the poor example sucker who was very precise throwing darts, but whose accuracy sucked. It's also reviewed in each of the proceeding sciences (except possibly biology). I checked with my sister and she tells me that this year her class (gr.10) skipped it (it was on the exam review but then removed when the teacher realized he had forgotten to teach it. :) > For those, the penalty is that when you type "make" again, an > unnecessary compilation of an object may occur to make it > "at least one second older". And so on, until, in a string of machine-generated source files, each has a descending time. Okay, okay, so there aren't many places where I use strings of machine-generated source files. :-) > The FS layout is not permitted to change; that's one of our major > constraints. Can you imagine "well, we converted 98% of your > hard drive, but you don't have room for these new indows here...."? Bah. You could calculate the room required. (Point stands, "FS layout is not permitted to change"). -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 15 20:36:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24766 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:36:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24761 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:36:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA10045; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:35:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808160335.VAA10045@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.44 (Beta) X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:35:44 -0600 To: Donald Burr , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FW: humor: How does a UNIX guru have sex? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:49 PM 8/15/98 -0700, Donald Burr wrote: >Q: How does a UNIX guru have sex? > >A: unzip;strip;touch;finger;mount;fsck;more;yes;umount;sleep Q: How do you tell if he needs Viagra? A: nologin Q: What does he (or she) do when his/her Significant Other isn't in the mood? A: finger @localhost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 15 22:58:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04425 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:58:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04414 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:58:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19873; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:57:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao X-Sender: taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca To: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= cc: FREEBSD-CHAT Subject: Re: AMD K6-3D "make buildworld" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id WAA04419 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 15 Aug 1998, Dag-Erling Coidan [iso-8859-1] Smørgrav wrote: > > You call that fast? fixus-ipv6.ifi.uio.no (Dell OptiPlex, single-CPU > PII-233 MHz with 128 MB RAM and a 4 GB Maxtor IDE disk half of which > is used by FreeBSD) builds world in 56 minutes, without soft updates > (but with /usr/src and /usr/obj on separate file systems mounted > async). I kinda thought you'd beat me by more than two minutes... Then you're doing something differently than me. buildworld on my P2/266 with 96MB takes about 73 minutes, async /usr/src and /usr/obj on a 4.55GB Quantum Viking SCSI drive. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message