From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 01:40:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA13956 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:40:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.eecis.udel.edu (louie.udel.edu [128.175.7.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA13951; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:40:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:40:15 -0700 (PDT) From: alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu Message-Id: <199808230840.BAA13951@hub.freebsd.org> Received: from ren.eecis.udel.edu by mail.eecis.udel.edu id aa12479; 23 Aug 1998 04:36 EDT To: Brett Glass Cc: Craig Johnston , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 Organization: Mos Eisley Candy Store Reply-To: alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In Reply to Your Message of Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22: 26:16 MDT Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:36:04 -0400 From: Jerry Alexandratos Message-ID: <199808230436.aa12479@mail.eecis.udel.edu> Brett Glass says: : Oh, one other thing about the ThinkPad worth noting: the internal modem and : sound are done by an MWave chip. There are NO FreeBSD drivers for this, so : neither the synth nor the modem will work. You'll need to get PCMCIA cards : for these functions. Actually, I don't think that this is a problem with the 560s. They don't have a built-in modem and if I recall correctly, the sound-chip is a Crystal Audio jobbie (which if I remember is SB compatible). The only StinkPads you have to worry about are the 75x/76x/770 models which have the integrated MWave devices. --Jerry 8) Jerry Alexandratos % - % "Nothing inhabits my (8 8) alexandr@louie.udel.edu % - % thoughts, and oblivion (8 8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu % - % drives my desires." (8 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 04:19:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA29241 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:19:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from notabene.zer0.org (sac-port387.jps.net [209.63.247.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA29229 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:19:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@n1.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by notabene.zer0.org (8.8.7/8.8.8) id EAA10710; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:18:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19980823041842.A924@notabene.zer0.org> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:18:42 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Remark from Nick Petreley References: <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822135700.J924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822162831.N924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808230107.TAA27100@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <199808230107.TAA27100@lariat.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 07:07:07PM -0600 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 07:07:07PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 04:28 PM 8/22/98 -0700, Gregory Sutter wrote: > > >When you say things like: > > [Quotes elided] > > You're quoting my remarks out of context. You should print the absurd and > outrageous remarks to which I was responding. To which you responded with the quoted absurd and outrageous remarks, which makes you no less a zealot than the more radical defenders of GNU. Not everyone automagically believes GPL == death. In fact, I just prepared a piece of my software to be released under the GPL. I chose it over the Artistic and XFree86 style licenses because I feel it is more appropriate for the software -- an antispam package. Anyone can use it, even the accursed spammers (who would use it if it benefitted them anyway, no matter what the licensing said), but nobody packages and sells what I wrote to benefit the Net. The next time I have a piece of software to release, I won't just choose GPL because I've used it before. I'll evaluate again and decide what will be the most appropriate license. Like I said, there's room for both out there, and your actions are trying to limit people's options just as the GPL-only camp's are. And after all, isn't "freedom to choose, freedom to use" what Open Source is all about? Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Bureaucrats cut red tape -- lengthwise. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 05:52:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12882 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 05:52:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flarn.dyn.ml.org ([147.72.122.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA12860 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 05:52:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@flarn.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from mph@localhost) by flarn.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05075; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:52:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980823085213.A4977@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:52:13 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Gregory Sutter , Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Remark from Nick Petreley References: <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822135700.J924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822162831.N924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808230107.TAA27100@lariat.lariat.org> <19980823041842.A924@notabene.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <19980823041842.A924@notabene.zer0.org>; from GReg Sutter on Sun, Aug 23, 1998 at 04:18:42AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Aug 23, 1998 at 04:18:42AM -0700, GReg Sutter wrote: > Not everyone automagically believes GPL == death. In fact, I just > prepared a piece of my software to be released under the GPL. I chose > it over the Artistic and XFree86 style licenses because I feel it is more > appropriate for the software -- an antispam package. Anyone can use it, > even the accursed spammers (who would use it if it benefitted them > anyway, no matter what the licensing said), but nobody packages and > sells what I wrote to benefit the Net. As somebody who was quite involved in the early days of this software, I would be proud if somebody packaged and sold it, and would consider it to be a benefit to the Net; spam stopped is spam stopped, whether the user got a tarball from you or a CD-ROM and 4-color manual from CodeBeUs. -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 07:42:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA22971 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 07:42:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22966 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 07:42:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id IAA01078; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808231441.IAA01078@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:41:06 -0600 To: Gregory Sutter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Remark from Nick Petreley In-Reply-To: <19980823041842.A924@notabene.zer0.org> References: <199808230107.TAA27100@lariat.lariat.org> <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822135700.J924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822162831.N924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808230107.TAA27100@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:18 AM 8/23/98 -0700, Gregory Sutter wrote: >> You're quoting my remarks out of context. You should print the absurd and >> outrageous remarks to which I was responding. > >To which you responded with the quoted absurd and outrageous remarks, >which makes you no less a zealot than the more radical defenders of GNU. Again, not in context. In many cases, I'm parodying their style and their rashness for humorous effect. >Not everyone automagically believes GPL == death. Agreed. However, GPLing code does represent the death of opportunities for entrepreneurship, and of a race between commercial and non-commercial products. I do find this sad. >Like I said, there's room for both out there, and your actions are trying >to limit people's options just as the GPL-only camp's are. And after >all, isn't "freedom to choose, freedom to use" what Open Source is all >about? I don't think that the GPL allows "freedom to use." It only allows "freedom to be a user." Big difference. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 09:40:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02031 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:40:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jane.lfn.org (register.lfn.org [209.16.92.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA02020 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:40:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from caj@lfn.org) Received: (qmail 27156 invoked by uid 100); 23 Aug 1998 16:40:02 -0000 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:40:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig Johnston To: Brett Glass cc: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 In-Reply-To: <199808230426.WAA28288@lariat.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > Oh, one other thing about the ThinkPad worth noting: the internal modem and > sound are done by an MWave chip. There are NO FreeBSD drivers for this, so > neither the synth nor the modem will work. You'll need to get PCMCIA cards > for these functions. The 560E doesn't have a modem, and the sound is an ESS chip, works just fine with freebsd. -Craig To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 14:33:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24348 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24338; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:32:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA04505; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:32:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA19348; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:32:05 -0600 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:32:05 -0600 Message-Id: <199808232132.PAA19348@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Craig Johnston Cc: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I figured some of you might be interested in this. The specs are > i166MMX / 16MB(80 max) / 2.1GB / 12.1 TFT @ 800x600x16 / 4 lbs, 1.2" thick, > basically full-sized keyboard, trackpoint (the red 'pencil eraser') pointing > device, SBPro compat sound, external floppy drive, IrDA port. Wow, that's cheap. > This isn't FreeBSD-specific but I wanted FreeBSD folks to get 'em. > It's really an incredible deal. (IBM just discontinued it recently.) > You probably couldn't buy just the screen much cheaper. It works > great for FreeBSD. They are indeed one of the nicest laptops around, and although they aren't state of the art anymore, I have yet to find a replacement box that is as nicely packages as the 560. (Although, the new 600 model might be nice... :) Recommended highly! (Owner of the older 133Mhz model) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 14:35:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24821 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:35:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24816; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:35:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA04520; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:34:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA19356; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:34:55 -0600 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:34:55 -0600 Message-Id: <199808232134.PAA19356@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Brett Glass Cc: Craig Johnston , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 In-Reply-To: <199808230426.WAA28288@lariat.lariat.org> References: <199808230426.WAA28288@lariat.lariat.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > Oh, one other thing about the ThinkPad worth noting: the internal modem and > sound are done by an MWave chip. There are NO FreeBSD drivers for this, so > neither the synth nor the modem will work. You'll need to get PCMCIA cards > for these functions. Note, we benchmarked the internal MWAVE modem vs. a 28.8K PCMCIA Sportster, and even thought the modem claimed to do 33.6 the Sportster *ate* it for lunch. It acted like a 9600 baud modem, although at times we could get burst of high speed. In short, I was not impressed with it, so all of our ThinkPad users now have external modems (or ethernet/modem combos). Nate ps. None of the above tests were done under FreeBSD, obviously. pps. We were running the most recent patches from IBM as well. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 14:39:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25509 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25500; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:39:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA04569; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:38:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA19385; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:38:16 -0600 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:38:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199808232138.PAA19385@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu Cc: Brett Glass , Craig Johnston , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 In-Reply-To: <199808230840.BAA13951@hub.freebsd.org> References: <199808230840.BAA13951@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > : Oh, one other thing about the ThinkPad worth noting: the internal modem and > : sound are done by an MWave chip. There are NO FreeBSD drivers for this, so > : neither the synth nor the modem will work. You'll need to get PCMCIA cards > : for these functions. > > Actually, I don't think that this is a problem with the 560s. They > don't have a built-in modem and if I recall correctly, the sound-chip is > a Crystal Audio jobbie (which if I remember is SB compatible). > > The only StinkPads you have to worry about are the 75x/76x/770 models > which have the integrated MWave devices. Ahh, you are right. It was a 755CX that has the built in modem that sucked. :) (Yes, we like ThinkPads at SRI. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 15:09:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28341 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:09:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28333 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:09:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA04132; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:08:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808232208.QAA04132@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:08:24 -0600 To: Gregory Sutter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Remark from Nick Petreley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org By the way, see my most recent posting at http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?70402 It was composed somewhat hastily, and therefore has some serious typos, but it gets the point across regarding license options. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 15:09:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28427 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:09:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28344; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:09:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA04129; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808232208.QAA04129@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:07:08 -0600 To: Nate Williams From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 Cc: Craig Johnston , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808232134.PAA19356@mt.sri.com> References: <199808230426.WAA28288@lariat.lariat.org> <199808230426.WAA28288@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org IBM's MWave drivers aren't particularly good. I see the MWave as a failed experiment, alas. Modems and sound cards with built-in DSPs work best when they're sold to multiple vendors, contain internal ROM or flash, and have a standard interface that's documented and operating system-independent. The MWave as a modem is basically a "Winmodem." --Brett At 03:34 PM 8/23/98 -0600, Nate Williams wrote: >Brett Glass writes: >> Oh, one other thing about the ThinkPad worth noting: the internal modem and >> sound are done by an MWave chip. There are NO FreeBSD drivers for this, so >> neither the synth nor the modem will work. You'll need to get PCMCIA cards >> for these functions. > >Note, we benchmarked the internal MWAVE modem vs. a 28.8K PCMCIA >Sportster, and even thought the modem claimed to do 33.6 the Sportster >*ate* it for lunch. It acted like a 9600 baud modem, although at times >we could get burst of high speed. > >In short, I was not impressed with it, so all of our ThinkPad users now >have external modems (or ethernet/modem combos). > > >Nate > >ps. None of the above tests were done under FreeBSD, obviously. > >pps. We were running the most recent patches from IBM as well. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 15:40:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01739 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:40:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from osprey.grizzly.com (osprey.grizzly.com [209.133.20.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01722; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:40:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markd@Grizzly.COM) Received: (from markd@localhost) by osprey.grizzly.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA00474; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808232238.PAA00474@osprey.grizzly.com> From: Mark Diekhans To: nate@mt.sri.com CC: caj@lfn.org, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199808232132.PAA19348@mt.sri.com> (message from Nate Williams on Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:32:05 -0600) Subject: Re: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 References: <199808232132.PAA19348@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >(Although, the new 600 model >might be nice... :) Although it over a pound heavier than the beloved 560 :-( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 15:48:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02847 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:48:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d4.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02842 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:48:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24537 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:33:23 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808231533.PAA24537@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Dinner tonight in Melbourne Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:33:22 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just a quick call out to any *BSD folks in Melbourne; we're having dinner at Thai Tani in Brunswick St. at 7pm this evening (Monday). Feel free to rock up unannounced (although announced would mean we could reserve a seat for you). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 17:52:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13159 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 17:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13049; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 17:51:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA11983; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:19:42 +0930 (CST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA00504; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:12:39 +0900 (KST) Message-ID: <19980822111239.61830@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:12:39 +0900 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD more secure than IRIX References: <199808211128.EAA11769@mailgate.cadence.com> <199808211543.JAA12023@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199808211543.JAA12023@lariat.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Fri, Aug 21, 1998 at 09:43:01AM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 21 August 1998 at 9:43:01 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 12:27 PM 8/21/98 +0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > >> In CNets headline story today, FreeBSD replaces comproimised IRIX >> servers at a Kentucky ISP! >> >> Whether the attack was the fault of the ISP's operating system >> remains an unanswered question. But Aye Net is not taking any >> chances. It has since replaced its operating system with FreeBSD, >> which is a version of Unix with strengthened security measures. >> >> http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,25526,00.html?st.ne.1.head > > For Heaven's sake someone warn them not to run QPopper. Why? Firstly, it wasn't a FreeBSD problem, and secondly it's been fixed. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 18:01:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15374 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:01:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15340; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:01:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA12014; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:30:48 +0930 (CST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.6.12) id JAA00521; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:49:23 +0900 (KST) Message-ID: <19980824094921.07577@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:49:21 +0900 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD more secure than IRIX References: <199808211543.JAA12023@lariat.lariat.org> <199808211128.EAA11769@mailgate.cadence.com> <199808211543.JAA12023@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822111239.61830@papillon.lemis.com> <4.1.0.44.19980822092601.041f94e0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <4.1.0.44.19980822092601.041f94e0@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 09:27:25AM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 22 August 1998 at 9:27:25 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:12 AM 8/22/98 +0900, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>> For Heaven's sake someone warn them not to run QPopper. >> >> Why? Firstly, it wasn't a FreeBSD problem, and secondly it's been >> fixed. > > Yes, but they switched before 2.2.7 came out. The old QPopper > was in the Ports Collection for 2.2.6. OK. But why should that be a reason to warn them not to use it? Tell it like it is. And in any case, we don't intend to give new users old versions. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 23 23:54:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04041 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:54:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (obelix.trw.nl [195.193.64.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04010; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:54:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA04055; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 06:34:53 +0200 (CEST) To: Nate Williams cc: Craig Johnston , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:32:05 MDT." <199808232132.PAA19348@mt.sri.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 06:34:53 +0200 Message-ID: <4051.903933293@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199808232132.PAA19348@mt.sri.com>, Nate Williams writes: >> I figured some of you might be interested in this. The specs are >> i166MMX / 16MB(80 max) / 2.1GB / 12.1 TFT @ 800x600x16 / 4 lbs, 1.2" thick, >> basically full-sized keyboard, trackpoint (the red 'pencil eraser') pointing >> device, SBPro compat sound, external floppy drive, IrDA port. > >Wow, that's cheap. > >> This isn't FreeBSD-specific but I wanted FreeBSD folks to get 'em. >> It's really an incredible deal. (IBM just discontinued it recently.) >> You probably couldn't buy just the screen much cheaper. It works >> great for FreeBSD. > >They are indeed one of the nicest laptops around, and although they >aren't state of the art anymore, I have yet to find a replacement box >that is as nicely packages as the 560. (Although, the new 600 model >might be nice... :) > >Recommended highly! (Owner of the older 133Mhz model) Got one as well, beware that getting XFree86 to work may not be possible, I think that problem pertains the the 560E model and last I heard it was still outstanding... -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 10:01:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28104 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:01:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28084; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:01:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA10809; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:56:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808241656.KAA10809@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:55:56 -0600 To: Poul-Henning Kamp , Nate Williams From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 Cc: Craig Johnston , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4051.903933293@critter.freebsd.dk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I understand that Xi Graphics' X server for the Cyber does a MUCH better job on ThinkPads than the one included with XFree86. It's said to be faster and work on more machines. They have a downloadable trial version you might want to try. --Brett At 06:34 AM 8/24/98 +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >Got one as well, beware that getting XFree86 to work may not be possible, >I think that problem pertains the the 560E model and last I heard it was >still outstanding... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 12:18:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21336 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:18:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jane.lfn.org (jobfair.nocitycouncil.com.92.16.209.in-addr.arpa [209.16.92.5] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA21291 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:18:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from caj@lfn.org) Received: (qmail 5896 invoked by uid 100); 24 Aug 1998 19:17:30 -0000 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:17:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig Johnston To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 In-Reply-To: <4051.903933293@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Got one as well, beware that getting XFree86 to work may not be possible, > I think that problem pertains the the 560E model and last I heard it was > still outstanding... My 560E runs XFree86 just fine -- 800x600 @ 16 bits. Craig To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 12:28:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23384 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:28:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA23372; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:28:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA12276; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:23:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808241923.NAA12276@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:23:16 -0600 To: Craig Johnston , Poul-Henning Kamp From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 Cc: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4051.903933293@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:17 PM 8/24/98 -0500, Craig Johnston wrote: >My 560E runs XFree86 just fine -- 800x600 @ 16 bits. > >Craig If you hold your head JUST RIGHT, and TURN OFF SCREEN EXPANSION, it may work. I've had mixed results; it may matter which BIOS you have. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 12:29:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23707 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:29:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jane.lfn.org (www.neworleansonline.com [209.16.92.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA23658 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:29:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from caj@lfn.org) Received: (qmail 6039 invoked by uid 100); 24 Aug 1998 19:28:42 -0000 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:28:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig Johnston To: Brett Glass cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Nate Williams , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM Thinkpad 560E TFT -> $1200 In-Reply-To: <199808241656.KAA10809@lariat.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > I understand that Xi Graphics' X server for the Cyber does a MUCH better > job on ThinkPads than the one included with XFree86. It's said to > be faster and work on more machines. They have a downloadable trial > version you might want to try. > > --Brett > XFree86 does an o.k. job -- the secret, I found, to making 3.3.2 work is specifying 'chipset "cyber9382"' -- 3.3.1 seemed to autodetect this. I was told that 'Option "cyber_shadow"' may be of help as well. My one problem with the XFree86 server is that I cannot seem to get a screen that does not flicker -- when I move my head vertically I can see horizontal lines scrolling vertically on the display. At lower refresh rates, I don't even have to move my head -- very visible lines scroll down the display. This concerns me because a TFT screen doesn't scan -- I ought to be able to set a 60hz refresh rate that is rock solid. Anyone have a clue as to what might be going on here? I'll check out the Xi server and see if it exhibits the problem. -Craig To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 13:02:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27541 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:02:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freedomnet.com (freedomnet.com [198.240.104.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27532 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:02:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbaldwin@freedomnet.com) Received: (from jbaldwin@localhost) by freedomnet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7/antispam) id PAA02990; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:57:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:57:34 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Hardware problems.... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I've been having some hardware difficulties and I would appreciate any suggestions. Here goes: I have two computers, and both of them are misbehaving, so I'll go over them one at a time. Computer 1 - AMD 486dx4/100 with 32 MB RAM - Maxtor 234 MB and Quantum 162 MB hard drives - VLB video card and multi I/O controller - 3Com 3c503 8-bit Ethernet adapter Problems: - The motherboard BIOS supports LBA, but I'm not sure if the I/O card does. I tried putting a 2 Gig hard drive in, and it worked ok at first, but then it started getting errors (status 50 and status 59). The drive doesn't work in my other computer anymore (where it used to live) either, so I think that drive is bad. I bought a new UDMA 2.8 Gig drive, and the BIOS detects the geometry correctly (cyls, heads, etc.) but says that it is only 700MB in size. The kernel gets the drive size right, and I did get it fdisk'd and label'd. However, when I tried to write to it I got status 50 and status 58 errors. On my other machine the drive worked fine, so I'm guessing that it is a problem with my I/O card? - Originally I had one 3c503 NIc that I used to run BNC. This machine acts as my gateway, so when my school got ethernet in the dorm rooms, I wanted to put a second NIc in there to interface with the school. I put in another 8-bit 3c503 that has a RJ45 jack and now the kernel cannot find either card. If I just put the 3c503 with the RJ45 jack in, the kernel doesn't find it either. So, I put a 3c509 in in place of the 3c503 with the RJ45 jack, but I still cannot get the 3c503 that used to work fine to be detected. Also, in all the configurations I tried, all of the cards passed the diagnostic tests on the 3Com disks. Computer 2: - Pentium 187/75, 32 MB RAM - Onboard PCI EIDE/LPT/COM - Maxtor 6.8 Gig UDMA and Seagate 1.7 Gig EIDE drives - Pioneer 24x ATAPI CD-ROM - 3Com 3c509 combo NIC - non-PnP SB16 - AIC 6360 SCSI adapter w/ external Zip drive - 250 Watt power supply Problems: - I recently replaced a 2 Gig hard drive mentioned above with the 6.8 Gig drive. It worked fine for about two or three days. Then it started locking up while copying data from the CD to the 6.8 gig hard drive. At firs, it would only lock up after about ten minutes of straight copying, but the problem grew progressively worse and right now it locks up after about 2 minutes. IT does this in both Win95 and FreeBSD. When it locks, it locks up real hard, in 95 I can't do jack squat, and in FreeBSD, the only response I got was a series of beeps when I tried to change terminals to kill the cp process. The computer has in the past two or three days taken an even weirder twist: it boots up fine, but kdm cores out with a signal 11, and so does tcsh, which I happen to use for all my login shells. At the moment I'm leaving the system off to minimize the possibility of corrupting my data. I thought it might be my power supply, but I don't see why a 250 watt power supply can't handle that type of load. Could it be my memory? Thanks for any and all responses. Also, please cc me in all replies as I'm not reading the chat list. John Baldwin jbaldwin@richmond.freedomnet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 13:26:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01342 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:26:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01332 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:26:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id WAA15578 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:25:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:25:29 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Business References: <199808241543.SAA21698@parker2.inter.net.il> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 24 Aug 1998 22:25:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Yuri"'s message of "Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:40:29 +0300" Message-ID: Lines: 52 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA01338 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Yuri" writes: > Уважаемые, господа! Hello to you too! > Предлагаем Вам принять участие в проекте виртуальной торговой системы > Golden Site (www.gstrade.com) в качестве дистрибьютора. Система > представляет собой виртуальную биржу, которая позволяет участвовать в > торгах, находясь в любой точке земного шара. Сделки осуществляются в режиме Cool! > реального времени и не имеют ограничения на минимальную инвестицию. Всё, > что необходимо – это персональный компьютер и подключение к Интернет. > Пользователь получает из нашего Web Site программу связи (бесплатно), No way, you really mean that? > устанавливает её на своём компьютере и может сразу участвовать в сделках. > Программа не только позволяет выполнять сделки в реальном времени, но и > включает набор средств для оперативного анализа состояния инвестиционного > портфеля. Wow! > Программные разработки и обслуживание сервера осуществляются компанией DFS > Ltd, являющейся одной из ведущих в области программного обеспечения > банковских и биржевых операций. I totally agree. > Система позволяет обеспечивать одновременное участие в торгах порядка 10 > тыс. человек. Она начинает функционировать в полном объеме с 15.09.98. Nah, I'm booked to hell and back until the end of September. > Чтобы наше сотрудничество было более эффективным, мы планируем заранее > заключить договора с дистрибьюторами и обеспечить их необходимой > информацией. Yup, sounds good. I'll look it over. > > С уважением и наилучшими пожеланиями, > > Директор по маркетингу Чернобильский Юрий Thanks, and season's greetings to you and your lovely family! DES (what language is that, anyway?) -- Dag-Erling Smшrgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 13:48:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04905 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:48:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04900 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:48:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA12919; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:47:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808242047.OAA12919@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:31:13 -0600 To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ), chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Business In-Reply-To: References: <"Yuri"'s message of "Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:40:29 +0300"> <199808241543.SAA21698@parker2.inter.net.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA04901 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:25 PM 8/24/98 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smшrgrav wrote: >DES (what language is that, anyway?) Spammish. ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 13:58:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05980 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:58:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (host-e186.tidalwave.net [208.213.203.186] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05959 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:58:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lee@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net) Received: (from lee@localhost) by st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA01942; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:56:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19980824165647.A1791@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:56:47 -0400 From: Lee Cremeans To: John Baldwin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware problems.... Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: ; from John Baldwin on Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 03:57:34PM -0400 X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 03:57:34PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > Hi all, I've been having some hardware difficulties and I would > appreciate any suggestions. Here goes: > > I have two computers, and both of them are misbehaving, so I'll go over > them one at a time. > > Computer 1 > - AMD 486dx4/100 with 32 MB RAM > - Maxtor 234 MB and Quantum 162 MB hard drives > - VLB video card and multi I/O controller > - 3Com 3c503 8-bit Ethernet adapter > > Problems: > - The motherboard BIOS supports LBA, but I'm not sure if the I/O card > does. I tried putting a 2 Gig hard drive in, and it worked ok at first, > but then it started getting errors (status 50 and status 59). The drive > doesn't work in my other computer anymore (where it used to live) either, > so I think that drive is bad. I bought a new UDMA 2.8 Gig drive, and the > BIOS detects the geometry correctly (cyls, heads, etc.) but says that it > is only 700MB in size. The kernel gets the drive size right, and I did > get it fdisk'd and label'd. However, when I tried to write to it I got > status 50 and status 58 errors. On my other machine the drive worked > fine, so I'm guessing that it is a problem with my I/O card? Bleh. In my experience, all the VLB IDE card I've used have had penchants for nasty timing bugs, which would explain the errors you're seeing (status 50 means the drive is ready and waiting for a command, status 58 means the drive is waiting to send data--you should not normally see these as errors!) I would try another card, personally; VLB *can* work, but it's hit-or-miss at best, and a pain in the rear in any case. See if the card has any timing-adjust jumpers on it; that may solve your problem. If not, and if another VLB card does not behave, you may have to drop down to an ISA card. As for the BIOS...that sounds like your BIOS is hitting a 2048-cylinder limitation. This doesn't matter for FreeBSD as long as you keep the kernel within reach of the BIOS. > Computer 2: > - Pentium 187/75, 32 MB RAM > - Onboard PCI EIDE/LPT/COM > - Maxtor 6.8 Gig UDMA and Seagate 1.7 Gig EIDE drives > - Pioneer 24x ATAPI CD-ROM > - 3Com 3c509 combo NIC > - non-PnP SB16 > - AIC 6360 SCSI adapter w/ external Zip drive > - 250 Watt power supply > > Problems: > - I recently replaced a 2 Gig hard drive mentioned above with the 6.8 Gig > drive. It worked fine for about two or three days. Then it started > locking up while copying data from the CD to the 6.8 gig hard drive. At > firs, it would only lock up after about ten minutes of straight copying, > but the problem grew progressively worse and right now it locks up after > about 2 minutes. IT does this in both Win95 and FreeBSD. When it locks, > it locks up real hard, in 95 I can't do jack squat, and in FreeBSD, the > only response I got was a series of beeps when I tried to change > terminals to kill the cp process. The computer has in the past two or > three days taken an even weirder twist: it boots up fine, but kdm cores > out with a signal 11, and so does tcsh, which I happen to use for all my > login shells. At the moment I'm leaving the system off to minimize the > possibility of corrupting my data. I thought it might be my power > supply, but I don't see why a 250 watt power supply can't handle that > type of load. Could it be my memory? It sounds like your processor may be overheating--you did say you had it at 187 MHz, right? Run that copying test, and see how hot the heat sink gets. It should get very warm, but not hot enough to burn--if it gets really hot, or does not get very hot at all, you got troubles. The first case means you need a better heatsink (you have either a shot, disconnected, or non-existent colling fan), the second means the heat sink isn't making good contact with the chip and may need sealant grease (most good electronics stores have this). -- Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet and WTnet) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac/95/96 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | mailto:lcremean@tidalwave.net http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net | Powered by FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 14:15:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07592 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:15:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07577 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.1 [OUT])) id OAA17132; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id OAA19900; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:12:55 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id PAA22258; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:12:54 -0600 Message-ID: <35E1D755.76E002CA@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:12:53 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Sutter CC: Mike Smith , Don Wilde , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: site design References: <199808211750.RAA11180@dingo.cdrom.com> <35DE642A.EF88A3CD@softweyr.com> <19980822044156.H924@notabene.zer0.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gregory Sutter wrote: > > No, to be seen from orbit, this has to be a pretty big structure. > > IIRC, it's nearly 5 miles across, and colored such that it stands > > out quite nicely from the background, which is mostly wheat fields > > and sage brush. > > That's one hell of a crop circle! > > Or one nice particle accelerator. Sort of a "crop" circle, if you consider ore to be a crop. I live downhill from Kennecott's Bingham Canyon mine, a 5 mile diameter hole in the ground, with lots of colorful spills running downhill from it. Another easy landmark to spot, even if your continent gets turned on it's side. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 17:06:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01289 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:06:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01282 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:06:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zB6cf-00058G-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:06:06 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id BAA00386 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 01:05:22 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12523; Tue, 25 Aug 98 01:05:20 BST Message-Id: <35E20D67.5C801C88@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 01:03:35 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD stickers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Some time ago there was a thread about FreeBSD Bumper Stickers (BTW I thought that in the You Ess of Aye stickers were called decals and bumpers were called fenders?) well I've just received my 2.2.7 CD's from WC (thanks for sorting the delivery problems guys) and included was a postcard sized sheet containing 11 assorted sizes of FreeBSD stickers :-). OK, they're not big enough for bumpers, don't want anyone driving that close, but there's 3 25mm (1") square ones that are perfect for covering up those horrible "Designed for Windoze" things that are appearing on just about every new PC. There's also 3 25mm round ones and the rest are various rectangular sizes and designs. Don't know where you can get them other than with an order from WC but they look great on my PC, monitor (one covers the makers badge perfectly), keyboard, the kids bikes etc. -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Windows 95: A 32-bit graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit | | operating system originally encoded for a 4-bit microprocessor by a | | 2-bit company who can't stand 1-bit of competition. | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com Radan Computational Ltd | http://www.uk.radan.com Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 17:16:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02256 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA02251 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:16:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id RAA07536; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:15:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:15:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Mark Ovens cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD stickers In-Reply-To: <35E20D67.5C801C88@uk.radan.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yeah, those stickers simply ROCK. The three stickers which read "Powered by FreeBSD" in the right bottom corner would be perfect for a bumper sticker though. -- Yan www.best.com/~jkb/ Unix users of the world unite: www.{free,open,net}bsd.org | www.linux.org | www.apache.org | www.perl.com "Turn up the lights, I don't want to go home in the dark." On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Mark Ovens wrote: >Some time ago there was a thread about FreeBSD Bumper Stickers (BTW I >thought that in the You Ess of Aye stickers were called decals and >bumpers were called fenders?) well I've just received my 2.2.7 CD's from >WC (thanks for sorting the delivery problems guys) and included was a >postcard sized sheet containing 11 assorted sizes of FreeBSD stickers >:-). > >OK, they're not big enough for bumpers, don't want anyone driving that >close, but there's 3 25mm (1") square ones that are perfect for covering >up those horrible "Designed for Windoze" things that are appearing on >just about every new PC. > >There's also 3 25mm round ones and the rest are various rectangular >sizes and designs. > >Don't know where you can get them other than with an order from WC but >they look great on my PC, monitor (one covers the makers badge >perfectly), keyboard, the kids bikes etc. > >-- >+---------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Windows 95: A 32-bit graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit | >| operating system originally encoded for a 4-bit microprocessor by a | >| 2-bit company who can't stand 1-bit of competition. | >+---------------------------------------------------------------------+ >Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com >Radan Computational Ltd | http://www.uk.radan.com >Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 17:57:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06252 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:57:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06240 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:57:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul4.u.washington.edu (root@saul4.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.2]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id RAA13648; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:56:35 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id RAA09299; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:52:22 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: Wes Peters cc: "'chat@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: sub In-Reply-To: <35DE13C3.9AB6FFDA@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >If *I* send a message with the subject "DOM" do I get to take >over the mail list? Grooooooaaaaannnn !!!! Wes, where are you and what are you doing in that handbasket? Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 18:51:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12503 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:51:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from assurance ([206.29.49.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12496 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:51:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vshah@rstcorp.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by assurance (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA01286; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:50:16 -0400 Received: from sandbox.rstcorp.com(206.29.49.63) by assurance.rstcorp.com via smap (V2.0) id xma001282; Mon, 24 Aug 98 21:50:07 -0400 Received: from jabberwock.rstcorp.com (jabberwock [206.29.49.98]) by sandbox.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13191; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:50:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from vshah@localhost) by jabberwock.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00184; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:50:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:50:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808250150.VAA00184@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Viren R. Shah" To: Mark Ovens Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re:FreeBSD stickers In-Reply-To: <35E20D67.5C801C88@uk.radan.com> References: <35E20D67.5C801C88@uk.radan.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Viren R. Shah" X-Face: )~y+U*K:yzjz{q<5lzpI_SVef'U.])9g[C9`1N@]u3,MHY7f*l7C)[_NjM4y4K8$uIUh|\u (K&&HS6,M!61&GMTk'mqmB/Qg]]X}"?TzsFl]"2v!bl8']dma.:^IY^a[lbOI>U:b<~FyK3q-p{HmZ mn~g.`~BE!5{2D:}Yi+\_KkWe?XaHj9$ko1k8iKLYv5*_2c8"G=?Up[}hn+7RNM(bzBZ_wWk6!Pf&B ?3Tcm7M7B~W%K/I0aX3]*=jP?aM]H6HBPT`oLk+0n^_;N\2\%|Rhy;p}34Q.jEsM\qtnxcm;ag%Nq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens writes: > bumpers were called fenders?) well I've just received my 2.2.7 CD's from > WC (thanks for sorting the delivery problems guys) and included was a > postcard sized sheet containing 11 assorted sizes of FreeBSD stickers > :-). > So now I'm wondering why I didn't get them with my 2.2.7 subscription CDs. Did you have to order the stickers separately? Viren -- "Endure pain, find joy, and make your own meaning, because the universe certainly isn't going to supply it. Always be a moving target. Live. Live. Live." -- Cordelia Vorkosigan to the just born Miles (Lois McMaster Bujold, Barrayar) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 18:56:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA13170 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:56:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13150 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:56:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pechter@shell.monmouth.com) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA06491; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:55:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199808250155.VAA06491@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD stickers To: marko@uk.radan.com (Mark Ovens) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <35E20D67.5C801C88@uk.radan.com> from "Mark Ovens" at Aug 25, 98 01:03:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Some time ago there was a thread about FreeBSD Bumper Stickers (BTW I > thought that in the You Ess of Aye stickers were called decals and > bumpers were called fenders?) well I've just received my 2.2.7 CD's from > WC (thanks for sorting the delivery problems guys) and included was a > postcard sized sheet containing 11 assorted sizes of FreeBSD stickers > :-). > > OK, they're not big enough for bumpers, don't want anyone driving that > close, but there's 3 25mm (1") square ones that are perfect for covering > up those horrible "Designed for Windoze" things that are appearing on > just about every new PC. > > There's also 3 25mm round ones and the rest are various rectangular > sizes and designs. > > Don't know where you can get them other than with an order from WC but > they look great on my PC, monitor (one covers the makers badge > perfectly), keyboard, the kids bikes etc. > I hope WC sells 'em. Didn't get 'em with my CD set -- or I would've plastered the work webservers... and my machine at home. Are they for sale? Perhaps they'd be made available as a postscript file... I've got this color printer here at work . Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 19:37:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18343 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:37:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA18338 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:37:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id TAA03306 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:36:36 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id TAA05493 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:32:24 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Uptime wigs me out... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You guys can't be serious about leaving a computer on for 400 plus days! Don't you people understand the ramifications of such malignant behavior! You could throw the entire industrial universe into a tailspin with that kind of reliability. If I could work on something once and then not have a crisis for a year, I would be unemployed. There would be revolution. Blood would spill... Before I started this summer job I was in a high reliability environment (submarines). I never considered that life was so disorderd in the "rest" of industry. Of course, submarine type reliability comes at a premium that few are willing to pay. Unless you consider FreeBSD. It really slays me when I consider the amount of effort my company expends trying to get vendors to give us reliable parts. It double slays me that people are using NT when the evidence proves them to be fools. (I just read B. Schneier's criticisms of MS PPTP... bwaaahahaha. VPN stands for Virtual(ly) Private Networks). Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 19:49:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19593 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:49:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flarn.dyn.ml.org (usr133.third-wave.com [147.72.122.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19585 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:48:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@flarn.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from mph@localhost) by flarn.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00676; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:48:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980824224817.A630@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:48:17 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD stickers References: <35E20D67.5C801C88@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <35E20D67.5C801C88@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Tue, Aug 25, 1998 at 01:03:35AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Aug 25, 1998 at 01:03:35AM +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > Some time ago there was a thread about FreeBSD Bumper Stickers (BTW I > thought that in the You Ess of Aye stickers were called decals and > bumpers were called fenders?) well I've just received my 2.2.7 CD's from > WC (thanks for sorting the delivery problems guys) and included was a > postcard sized sheet containing 11 assorted sizes of FreeBSD stickers > :-). Stickers, decals, bumpers, and fenders are all prevalent over here... When I submitted my order to start a subscription for 2.2.7, I added a comment specifically asking how to obtain 1"-square stickers, but I never got a response. Maybe time to re-bother WC... -- Matthew Hunt * Science rules. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 20:10:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22316 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:10:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22227 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:10:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03200; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:44:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Viren R. Shah" cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD stickers In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:50:06 EDT." <199808250150.VAA00184@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:44:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3196.904013060@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The stickers didn't arrive until well after 2.2.7 started shipping. We tried for much earlier, but got screwed by the printers. - Jordan > Mark Ovens writes: > > bumpers were called fenders?) well I've just received my 2.2.7 CD's from > > WC (thanks for sorting the delivery problems guys) and included was a > > postcard sized sheet containing 11 assorted sizes of FreeBSD stickers > > :-). > > > > So now I'm wondering why I didn't get them with my 2.2.7 subscription > CDs. Did you have to order the stickers separately? > > Viren > -- > "Endure pain, find joy, and make your own meaning, because the universe > certainly isn't going to supply it. Always be a moving target. > Live. Live. Live." -- Cordelia Vorkosigan to the just born Miles > (Lois McMaster Bujold, Barrayar) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 20:11:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22543 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:11:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22533 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:11:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03219; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:45:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter cc: marko@uk.radan.com (Mark Ovens), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, rab@cdrom.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD stickers In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:55:29 EDT." <199808250155.VAA06491@shell.monmouth.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:45:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3216.904013134@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I hope WC sells 'em. Didn't get 'em with my CD set -- or I would've > plastered the work webservers... and my machine at home. > > Are they for sale? I don't know - I asked WC's management about this awhile back but never got an answer. If you want to buy stickers, send your requests to rab@cdrom.com and maybe he'll take that as incentive to sell them. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 21:59:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00819 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:59:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from joshua.enteract.com (joshua.enteract.com [207.229.129.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA00814 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:59:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djhoward@joshua.enteract.com) Received: (qmail 667 invoked by uid 1032); 25 Aug 1998 04:59:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19980824235910.B29553@enteract.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:59:10 -0500 From: dannyman To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , Mark Ovens Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD stickers Mail-Followup-To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <35E20D67.5C801C88@uk.radan.com> <199808250155.VAA06491@shell.monmouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199808250155.VAA06491@shell.monmouth.com>; from Bill/Carolyn Pechter on Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 09:55:29PM -0400 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 09:55:29PM -0400, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > I hope WC sells 'em. Didn't get 'em with my CD set -- or I would've > plastered the work webservers... and my machine at home. > > Are they for sale? Order a tee-shirt. We got two teeshirts today and two sheets of stickers. Of course, we _were_ supposed to receive nine teeshirts, so we're looking forward to another seven sheets of stickers. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!! -danny -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 22:12:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01878 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:12:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01873 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:12:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA03417; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:16:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:16:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808250516.XAA03417@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: sub From: Wes Peters To: jcwells@u.washington.edu Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 1.6 X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id WAA01874 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My hidden microphone recorded Jason C. Wells (jcwells@u.washington.edu) saying: % On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Wes Peters wrote: % % >If *I* send a message with the subject "DOM" do I get to take % >over the mail list? % % Grooooooaaaaannnn !!!! % % Wes, where are you and what are you doing in that handbasket? I'm glad *somebody* finally got that. ;^) By the way, how did your system come to be named "weber"? I (along with the illustrious Terry Lambert) am an alumus of Weber State University, but the spelling (and pronounciation "wee-bur") is rare outside, er, Weber County. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 22:34:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03581 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:34:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d7.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03575 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:34:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01924; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:55:14 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808241855.SAA01924@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Viren R. Shah" cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD stickers In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:50:06 -0400." <199808250150.VAA00184@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:55:13 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Mark Ovens writes: > > bumpers were called fenders?) well I've just received my 2.2.7 CD's from > > WC (thanks for sorting the delivery problems guys) and included was a > > postcard sized sheet containing 11 assorted sizes of FreeBSD stickers > > :-). > > > > So now I'm wondering why I didn't get them with my 2.2.7 subscription > CDs. Did you have to order the stickers separately? They didn't arrive until after some of the 2.2.7 subscriptions had already been shipped it seems. You'll get some with your 3.0 or 2.2.8 disc set I expect. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 23:04:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06371 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:04:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06353 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:04:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul7.u.washington.edu (root@saul7.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.2]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id XAA10766; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:03:29 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul7.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id XAA10851; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:59:18 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: Wes Peters cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sub In-Reply-To: <199808250516.XAA03417@obie.softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >I'm glad *somebody* finally got that. ;^) > >By the way, how did your system come to be named "weber"? I (along with >the illustrious Terry Lambert) am an alumus of Weber State University, >but the spelling (and pronounciation "wee-bur") is rare outside, er, >Weber County. I think has to do with some sort of physics. Weber has the unit of magnetic flux named in his honor. weber = tesla * m^2. I have always called it Webber, but I also call Linux Line-ux. It is one of those things I have only read and have never heard spoken by anyone who really knows what is what. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ | 206-633-5994 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 24 23:41:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09666 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:41:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09646 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:41:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Received: from scesie04.sie.siemens.at (root@[10.1.140.1]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id IAA03103; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:40:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from scegud01.gud.siemens.at (scegud01.gud.siemens.at [195.3.240.30]) by scesie04.sie.siemens.at () with ESMTP id IAA27333; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:40:22 +0200 (METDST) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (pc8811.gud.siemens.at [195.3.22.159]) by scegud01.gud.siemens.at (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29833; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:40:22 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:51:43 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Siemens Austria AG From: Marino Ladavac To: "Jason C. Wells" Subject: Re: sub Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24-Aug-98 Jason C. Wells wrote: > > I think has to do with some sort of physics. Weber has the unit of > magnetic flux named in his honor. weber = tesla * m^2. I have always > called it Webber, but I also call Linux Line-ux. It is one of those things ^^^^^^Closer, but no cigar :) > I have only read and have never heard spoken by anyone who really knows > what is what. Unless my mind is failing worse than I'm ready to admit, Herr Weber was a German, thus the pronunciation could be transliterated Veh-bah, with a long eh sound. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 25 07:22:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03611 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:22:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA03559 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:21:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (cam.grad.kiev.ua [195.5.37.130] (may be forged)) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00460; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:19:20 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <35E2C7E6.AE3D9BAE@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:19:18 +0300 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass CC: "Dag-Erling Coidan Smшrgrav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Business References: <"Yuri"'s message of "Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:40:29 +0300"> <199808241543.SAA21698@parker2.inter.net.il> <199808242047.OAA12919@lariat.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 10:25 PM 8/24/98 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smшrgrav wrote: > > >DES (what language is that, anyway?) > > Spammish. ;-) > Russian dialect of one ;) > --Brett > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA CORBA in Ukraine & ex-USSR: http://www.corbadev.kiev.ua To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 25 12:20:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18002 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:20:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from notabene.zer0.org (sac-port387.jps.net [209.63.247.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17992 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:20:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@n1.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by notabene.zer0.org (8.8.7/8.8.8) id MAA03004; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19980825121930.E27831@notabene.zer0.org> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:19:30 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sub References: <199808250516.XAA03417@obie.softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 10:59:18PM +0000 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 10:59:18PM +0000, Jason C. Wells wrote: > > I think has to do with some sort of physics. Weber has the unit of > magnetic flux named in his honor. weber = tesla * m^2. I have always > called it Webber, but I also call Linux Line-ux. It is one of those things > I have only read and have never heard spoken by anyone who really knows > what is what. And Linux is short-i and ooh- sounding, as Lihn-ooks. Ask Lihn-uhs. http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/linux.wav Sorry, I don't have sox at the moment, so wav is all you get. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "How do I read this file?" mailto:gsutter@pobox.com "You uudecode it." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ "I I I decode it?" PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 25 17:15:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07040 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:15:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07035 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:15:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-156.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.156]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA10200 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:14:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02097 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:56:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199808252356.SAA02097@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: FreeBSD stickers In-reply-to: Message from "Jan B. Koum " of "Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:15:29 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:56:10 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jan B. Koum " writes: > > Yeah, those stickers simply ROCK. > The three stickers which read "Powered by FreeBSD" in the right > bottom corner would be perfect for a bumper sticker though. Ok, so I put a "Powered by FreeBSD" bumpersticker on my car. Where do I get FreeBSD Power for my car? Don't want the DOJ to start after me for false advertising once they run Bill Gates thru the wringer. :-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 25 17:25:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07989 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:25:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d3.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07976 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:25:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00930; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:22:59 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808251722.RAA00930@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: David Kelly cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD stickers In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:56:10 EST." <199808252356.SAA02097@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:22:58 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > "Jan B. Koum " writes: > > > > Yeah, those stickers simply ROCK. > > The three stickers which read "Powered by FreeBSD" in the right > > bottom corner would be perfect for a bumper sticker though. > > Ok, so I put a "Powered by FreeBSD" bumpersticker on my car. Where do I > get FreeBSD Power for my car? Don't want the DOJ to start after me for > false advertising once they run Bill Gates thru the wringer. :-) You make money from FreeBSD. This pays your fuel bills. Thus FreeBSD powers your car. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 26 01:26:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24870 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:26:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24859 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:26:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA02699; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:55:46 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA14999; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:55:44 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980826175544.H14420@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:55:44 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , Gregory Sutter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Remark from Nick Petreley References: <199808230107.TAA27100@lariat.lariat.org> <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822135700.J924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822162831.N924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808230107.TAA27100@lariat.lariat.org> <19980823041842.A924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808231441.IAA01078@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199808231441.IAA01078@lariat.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sun, Aug 23, 1998 at 08:41:06AM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 23 August 1998 at 8:41:06 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 04:18 AM 8/23/98 -0700, Gregory Sutter wrote: > >>> You're quoting my remarks out of context. You should print the absurd and >>> outrageous remarks to which I was responding. >> >> To which you responded with the quoted absurd and outrageous remarks, >> which makes you no less a zealot than the more radical defenders of GNU. > > Again, not in context. In many cases, I'm parodying their style and their > rashness for humorous effect. I don't like to make disagreements public, but in this case I think I must. Brett, I tend to agree with Nicholas and Greg. Your messages *do* portray the impression that you're a GNU or Linux basher, and I haven't seen any humour in your messages. If that was the intention, you obviously failed. On the whole (and after reviewing mail exchanges with you over the last 6 months), I get the impression that your messages on the Net are harming FreeBSD more than they are helping. >> Not everyone automagically believes GPL == death. > > Agreed. However, GPLing code does represent the death of opportunities for > entrepreneurship, and of a race between commercial and non-commercial > products. > I do find this sad. Over the course of the years, I have made a lot of money out of GPL software. Like Greg Sutter, I have also released software under the GPL, but that doesn't mean I will always do so. If you can't find a way to make money out of the GPL (and assuming you want to), then maybe that's the question you should be looking at. >> Like I said, there's room for both out there, and your actions are trying >> to limit people's options just as the GPL-only camp's are. And after >> all, isn't "freedom to choose, freedom to use" what Open Source is all >> about? > > I don't think that the GPL allows "freedom to use." It only allows "freedom > to be a user." Big difference. I don't see one, but quite honestly, I don't care, either. In summary: if you want to help FreeBSD, consider how other people see you. I'm not asking you to change your opinions, just to keep quiet at the right times :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 26 08:56:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22581 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:56:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA22576; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:56:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA01997; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808261555.JAA01997@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:54:37 -0600 To: Greg Lehey , Gregory Sutter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Remark from Nick Petreley In-Reply-To: <19980826175544.H14420@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199808231441.IAA01078@lariat.lariat.org> <199808230107.TAA27100@lariat.lariat.org> <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822135700.J924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822162831.N924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808230107.TAA27100@lariat.lariat.org> <19980823041842.A924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808231441.IAA01078@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:55 PM 8/26/98 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >I don't like to make disagreements public, but in this case I think I >must. Brett, I tend to agree with Nicholas and Greg. Your messages >*do* portray the impression that you're a GNU or Linux basher, and I >haven't seen any humour in your messages. If that was the intention, >you obviously failed. On the whole (and after reviewing mail >exchanges with you over the last 6 months), I get the impression that >your messages on the Net are harming FreeBSD more than they are >helping. Thank you for you opinion. Personally, I think I've done a great deal to raise public awareness of the availability of FreeBSD as a stable, worthwhile alternative to Linux. In fact, I daresay that next to you and Jordan, I've probably had more of a positive effect on this than anyone else. >Over the course of the years, I have made a lot of money out of GPL >software. Like Greg Sutter, I have also released software under the >GPL, but that doesn't mean I will always do so. If you can't find a >way to make money out of the GPL (and assuming you want to), then >maybe that's the question you should be looking at. I don't understand why you would make that assumption. The fact is, I believe that the GPL is a bad idea because it eliminates opportunities for entrepreneurship. It deprives small innovators of the benefits of code re-use but does nothing to deter the progress of large corporations, which can afford to re-implement. I don't think RMS is the Antichrist, mind you. However, it is demonstrably true that his philosophy (and the GPL) are motivated by extreme political views, and that at some authors who publish under the GPL do not understand this agenda or understand the potential global consequences. >> I don't think that the GPL allows "freedom to use." It only allows "freedom >> to be a user." Big difference. > >I don't see one, but quite honestly, I don't care, either. This may be the biggest problem. The difference is important, and will be of increasing significance as time goes by. If people do not care, it will hurt everyone who develops software. >In summary: if you want to help FreeBSD, consider how other people see >you. I'm not asking you to change your opinions, just to keep quiet >at the right times :-) Again, I think I *have* helped FreeBSD and the *BSDs in general to gain the recognition they deserve. Even the knock-down, drag-out, online arguments help. I think you should engage in more of them. Even if you are perceived as a zealot (I've been branded as such even though I'm not), the platform becomes recognized as something which is worthy enough to *gather* zealots. And that is actually a compliment that convinces people to try the product. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 26 14:48:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27067 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:48:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [209.118.174.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26960; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:48:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00950; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:45:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Terry Lambert cc: ben@rosengart.com, gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG, alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu, paul@originative.co.uk, regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Threads across processors In-Reply-To: <199808262125.OAA23152@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I don't know if anyone else has noticed or not, but Apple has stopped > > doing insane marketing mistakes. They actually have put together some > > very nice machines lately. I'm not a Mac enthusiast, but I'm going to > > have to stop using them as an example of computer idiocy. > > What about the insane marketing mistake of not documenting your > hardware? It's a relative thing, Terry ... I didn't mean to say they were suddenly without faults (what you mention is a prime reason I avoid them) but when you compare them even with their behavior 2 years back, it seems to be a different company. I had to upgrade my son's computer (he's a mac person) and I was surprised. We have to stop this, so I moved it to chat. I'd get hassled for this kind of stuff on current. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 27 00:48:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28152 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:48:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28127 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:48:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.254]) by mail.ftf.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8/gw-ftf-1.0) with ESMTP id JAA12411; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:53:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.8/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA15529; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:57:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.8/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id JAA11948; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:46:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19980827094654.19419@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:46:54 +0200 From: Philippe Regnauld To: Tom Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Threads across processors References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Tom on Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 07:45:05PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386 Phone: +45 3336 4148 Address: Ahlefeldtsgade 16, 1359 Copenhagen K, Denmark Organization: PROSA Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tom writes: > > On 27 Aug 1998, Dag-Erling Coidan [iso-8859-1] Smшrgrav wrote: > > > Dave Glowacki writes: > > > According to http://www.macosrumors.com/OSX.html MacOS X will already have > > > a version of BSD built in and a command line interface will be available. > > > > macosrumors.com make a living spreading startling but false news. Do > > you read the National Enquirer to get the latest on geopolitics? > > I wouldn't say that. > > First of all, the core of Rhapsody is BSD 4.4. This is positive. What Yes and no. It's a MACHish micro-kernel, with 4.4BSD hosted on top. > There was even a Rhapsody port to x86 (imagin Mac GUI on Intel!), but > Apple seems to have killed it. Yeah, I have the CD. Tried it -- (no disk cache at the time -- damn slow), but you had NeXTStep, and when you opened a "terminal window", you had something _very_ close to NetBSD (you even had the manpages from compat_linux, compat_svr4 :-). I was able to take bash and say ./configure;make;make install. -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- The Internet is busy. Please try again later. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 27 02:14:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA10968 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA10881 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:13:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25324 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:12:59 +0100 (BST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA12664; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:12:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19980827101159.A12553@iii.co.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:11:59 +0100 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Tookit info References: <199808270102.SAA10634@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <28929.904187305@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <28929.904187305@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 08:08:25PM -0700 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 08:08:25PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > What I envision is that the ports (distfile tarballs) and packages > collection will be essentially spread out across 8 CDs: WC haven't just bought out a stake in a CD auto-changer manufacturer have they? N -- --+==[ Nik Clayton becomes Just Another Perl Contractor in 16 days. ]==+-- She's still dead. Deal with it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 27 11:37:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27756 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:37:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27729 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:37:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au) Received: (from ncb05@localhost) by banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA27427; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:36:08 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:36:08 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: AUUG '98 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How many people here are heading to AUUG in Sydney? At this point I probably won't be able to make it (strapped for cash), but I think it'd be great if we could organise some get together one night. Perhaps for dinner somewhere? Btw, will anyone be giving out freebsd merchandise there? I need to know where i can get my tshirt and stickers. ;) Nick -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au - http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~nick Key fingerprint = DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A "When in doubt, ask someone wiser than yourself..." -unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 27 14:00:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28556 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:00:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zephyr.cybercom.net (zephyr.cybercom.net [209.21.146.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28547 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:00:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ksmm@threespace.com) Received: from shell1.cybercom.net (ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net [209.21.136.6]) by zephyr.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28378 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by shell1.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA25149 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:59:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell1.cybercom.net: ksmm owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:59:18 -0400 (EDT) From: The Classiest Man Alive X-Sender: ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD 2.2.7 available Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just picked up my FreeBSD 2.2.7 CDs from my local computer store (woo-hoo!) and wanted to ask if people had any difficulties with the installation program. I seem to recall a problem with installing XFree86 when I installed this from disk. Of those using it (particularly upgraders) are you satisfied with it? Thanks, K.S. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 27 14:20:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02386 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02370 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:19:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@python.shoal.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA04627; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:18:50 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:18:50 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.7 available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think that the XFree86 problem was resolved before the cd's were released. I haven't done a new install from them yet but I did do an upgrade the other day (including XFree) which ran without a hitch. Kudos as usual to the FreeBSD team! Andrew Perry andrew@shoal.net.au On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > > I just picked up my FreeBSD 2.2.7 CDs from my local computer store > (woo-hoo!) and wanted to ask if people had any difficulties with the > installation program. I seem to recall a problem with installing XFree86 > when I installed this from disk. > > Of those using it (particularly upgraders) are you satisfied with it? > > Thanks, > K.S. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 27 14:26:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03278 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:26:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kakapo.pinnacle.co.nz (pinsoft.internet.co.nz [202.37.141.181]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03214 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:25:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonc@pinnacle.co.nz) Received: from tui.pinnacle.co.nz (tui.pinnacle.co.nz [202.37.163.3]) by kakapo.pinnacle.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA01686; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:21:37 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jonc@pinnacle.co.nz) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:21:37 +1200 From: Jonathan Chen To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.7 available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > I just picked up my FreeBSD 2.2.7 CDs from my local computer store > (woo-hoo!) and wanted to ask if people had any difficulties with the > installation program. I seem to recall a problem with installing XFree86 > when I installed this from disk. I recall that Jordan redid the distribution for the CDs. > Of those using it (particularly upgraders) are you satisfied with it? Yep. Upgraded 2 machines so far without any problems. Missed out on the stickers, though. -- Jonathan Chen | To do is to be -- Nietzsche | To be is to do -- Sartre | Scooby do be do -- Scooby To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 27 14:42:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06326 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06233 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:42:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00425; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:39:11 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808271439.OAA00425@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nicholas Charles Brawn cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AUUG '98 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:36:08 +1000." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:39:11 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > How many people here are heading to AUUG in Sydney? At this point I > probably won't be able to make it (strapped for cash), but I think it'd > be great if we could organise some get together one night. Perhaps for > dinner somewhere? > > Btw, will anyone be giving out freebsd merchandise there? I need to know > where i can get my tshirt and stickers. ;) The tshirts have never been free. If Greg or someone wants to contact me to arrange some stickers, I can probably help there. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 27 19:39:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00816 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:39:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00722 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:39:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA08636; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:38:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id EAA06797; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:38:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980828043759.38372@follo.net> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:37:59 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Matthew Dillon Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/ping ping.8 ping.c References: <199808280114.SAA16043@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199808280114.SAA16043@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 06:14:50PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 06:14:50PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: > The issue has been stomped to death. I think everyone is happy > (enough) at ping as it is currently commited, so lets close down > the ping conversation. You guys can continue whomping on me in the > make.conf argument :-) > > God knows what will happen when I submit items I thought might > generate an argument. So far I've only submitted stuff that > I didn't think would generate an argument! Oh, this isn't a problem. Just make sure the patches are sufficiently large (a few thousand lines should suffice), and the only problem will be that Bruce will complain about your spacing. Any large patch is by default assumed to be correct; the problem is only for small patches ;-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 27 23:03:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28699 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:03:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (castles24.castles.com [208.214.165.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28684 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:03:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00594; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:00:44 GMT (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Message-Id: <199808272300.XAA00594@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Curt Sampson cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FFS questions In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:31:59 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:00:43 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > The position table and all the optimisations related to second-guessing > > the behaviour of the disk are now pessimisations in most cases, and > > should be eliminated entirely. > > Ooo...you're going to regret that when you do your VAX 11/750 port! :-) Thanks, but I've already proven my manhood by lugging an RA81 (in a 4" cabinet) upstairs myself; I don't need to do it again. Actually, come to think of it, aren't surviving storage options for those systems getting a bit thin on the ground? For a Q22 system, you've got the RQDX[234], but the old RD54's must be quite rare now (I had several, all long dead). The '53 was too small back then, let alone now. For Unibus you could do SMD I guess (Emulex MD21, etc), but they're very hard to get now, and most of the SDI disks I can think of that are likely to still be alive are going to be of the variety that lie about their geometry anyway. Oh, and sysinstall wouldn't fit on a DECtape anyway. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 27 23:04:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28909 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beef.cybertouch.org (h24-64-141-159.mt.wave.shaw.ca [24.64.141.159]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28895 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:04:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beef@beef.cybertouch.org) Received: from localhost (beef@localhost) by beef.cybertouch.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA06672 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:59:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from beef@beef.cybertouch.org) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:59:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Lanny Baron To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: sue..can you... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Sue, Well since my ip numbers got changed when i set up my new dedicated FreeBSD server, i dont get mail from the list yet. And i lost your email addy in the process. Can you tell me what the right way of putting those messages on the bottom of all the mail from FreeBSD. I am refering to the unsubscribe part. This is what i have in one of my config files but when i send mail, that line does not show up. message_footer To unsubscribe from this list send send mail to majordomo@cybertouch.org in body put in unsubscribe divorced-chat << END Thanks, Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 27 23:29:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02324 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:29:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1586.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02317 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:29:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA00227; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 02:27:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 02:27:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: frank@exit.com, bsmith@bfmni.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/ping ping.c In-Reply-To: <199808280328.WAA28804@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat, since, while this may be -hackers material, nobody ain't gonna du nut'n about it] On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > I would have less objection to a change making the ping run for, > > say, six or eight hours before automatically shutting off. That's > > long enough (for my purposes) that I would probably never hit the > > auto-shutoff time, and it still quits by itself after a while. > > I disagree. An auto-shutoff violates POLA. Or, more strongly stated, it adheres to POMA. It is 100% guaranteed to shut-off when you least expect it and will find it the most puzzling trying to figure-out wtf happened. -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 28 00:04:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06977 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:04:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06966 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA09977; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:33:13 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA17739; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:33:12 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980828163312.E17530@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:33:12 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith , Nicholas Charles Brawn Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AUUG '98 References: <199808271439.OAA00425@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199808271439.OAA00425@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 02:39:11PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 27 August 1998 at 14:39:11 +0000, Mike Smith wrote: >> How many people here are heading to AUUG in Sydney? At this point I >> probably won't be able to make it (strapped for cash), but I think it'd >> be great if we could organise some get together one night. Perhaps for >> dinner somewhere? Sounds good with me. I'll be there the whole week. >> Btw, will anyone be giving out freebsd merchandise there? I need to know >> where i can get my tshirt and stickers. ;) > > The tshirts have never been free. If Greg or someone wants to contact > me to arrange some stickers, I can probably help there. Good. Consider this a contact. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 28 03:43:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00140 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:43:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA00134 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:43:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id MAA17663; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:42:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:42:42 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Cc: Curt Sampson , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FFS questions References: <199808272300.XAA00594@word.smith.net.au> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 28 Aug 1998 12:42:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's message of "Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:00:43 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 23 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id DAA00135 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith writes: > Thanks, but I've already proven my manhood by lugging an RA81 (in a 4" > cabinet) upstairs myself; I don't need to do it again. Actually, come > to think of it, aren't surviving storage options for those systems > getting a bit thin on the ground? Hmmm... is that the 600 MB 8.5 ms average seek disk they sold with the MicroVAX? Some friends of mine recently acquired a 16 year old MicroVAX in working order (except for one disk with a dead PSU) with two RA81 disks. They (four people) had to remove the disks to even be able to lift the MicroVAX (using straps) and IIRC none of them could carry a disk by himself either. The problem they face now is cooling. Even with one disk out the heat this thing generates is unbearable (we're talking high-eighties- low-nineties room temperature) Oh, and they have a PDP-11 too, and a Flipper (I bet none of you have even heard of those, much less of DolphinOS, except tegge) DES -- Dag-Erling Smшrgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 28 07:50:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25682 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:50:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [209.118.174.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25625; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:50:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA04470; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:47:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: "Nguyen HM (Mike)" cc: Dave Glowacki , dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Gary Palmer , alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu, Paul Richards , "'Philippe Regnauld'" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Threads across processors In-Reply-To: <332F90115D96D0119CD500805FEA976B01AFE222@HSCMS01> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id HAA25655 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Nguyen HM (Mike) wrote: Could we please move this to chat? It's got very little to do with current ... > Actually, it would make sense, since MacOS X used to be Rhapsody which > used to be NEXTSTEP, and I do remember that some time ago Apple > incorporated large parts of NetBSD into the codebase (back when it was > still Rhapsody). > > Mike. > > // Mike Nguyen > // Unix Systems Analyst and Geek > // Union Carbide Corporation * (281) 212-8073 > // nguyenhm@ucarb.com * 1138368@skytel.com [pager] > > > > ---------- > > From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no[SMTP:dag-erli@ifi.uio.no] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 5:03 PM > > To: Dave Glowacki > > Cc: Jordan K. Hubbard; Gary Palmer; alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu; > > Paul Richards; 'Philippe Regnauld'; Chuck Robey; > > freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: Threads across processors > > > > Dave Glowacki writes: > > > According to http://www.macosrumors.com/OSX.html MacOS X will > > already have > > > a version of BSD built in and a command line interface will be > > available. > > > > macosrumors.com make a living spreading startling but false news. Do > > you read the National Enquirer to get the latest on geopolitics? > > > > DES > > -- > > Dag-Erling Smшrgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 28 09:55:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15662 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:55:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (castles225.castles.com [208.214.165.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15638 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:55:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA05560; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:52:10 GMT (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Message-Id: <199808280952.JAA05560@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) cc: Curt Sampson , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FFS questions In-reply-to: Your message of "28 Aug 1998 12:42:40 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:52:09 +0000 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA15649 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Mike Smith writes: > > Thanks, but I've already proven my manhood by lugging an RA81 (in a 4" > > cabinet) upstairs myself; I don't need to do it again. Actually, come > > to think of it, aren't surviving storage options for those systems > > getting a bit thin on the ground? > > Hmmm... is that the 600 MB 8.5 ms average seek disk they sold with the > MicroVAX? They were the high-end disk for the Vax range for a while, yes. I don't think they were that fast though (try more like 30-40ms). The Fujitsu Super Eagle was another popular storage solution in that size range, and there were some smaller (515MB, lighter) CDC disks as well. > Some friends of mine recently acquired a 16 year old > MicroVAX in working order (except for one disk with a dead PSU) with > two RA81 disks. They (four people) had to remove the disks to even be > able to lift the MicroVAX (using straps) and IIRC none of them could > carry a disk by himself either. I guess Norwegians just aren't as bloodyminded as Australians then. 8) Carrying a microvax is pretty straightforward, unless you've left it in the cabinet at which point it becomes kinda unwieldy. There were 9 of them in a house I was sharing a while back, so I did get to move a few around... > The problem they face now is cooling. Even with one disk out the heat > this thing generates is unbearable (we're talking high-eighties- > low-nineties room temperature) Just like the server room where the FreeBSD cluster lives. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 28 19:47:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01982 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp6477.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01969 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:47:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA13313; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:42:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:42:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: ac199@hwcn.org, Matthew Dillon , Poul-Henning Kamp , John Polstra , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make.conf In-Reply-To: <23602.904356827@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > getting seriously out of hand. Obviously no one here is a ten > > year-old, since as a ten-year old, I certainly never said > > You must have grown up in the country. Around here, all the 10 year > olds I know could make a sailor blush with their vocabularies. No, suburbs + private school, actually. I recall one time in some low grade, the teacher was out of the class, and we were all chatting about whatever little students chat about. I stood-up and yelled "SEX" really loudly, which at the time I thought was a pretty bad word (this was like grade 1, ok). I can't for the life of me remember why anymore (it must have been a dare or something), but that was about as bad as my language got...for a little while, anyways. :-) All my street friends were younger than me. That must've been the big reason. Then we moved... > -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 28 19:52:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02672 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:52:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (host-e186.tidalwave.net [208.213.203.186] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02667 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:52:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lee@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net) Received: (from lee@localhost) by st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id WAA06661; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:48:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19980828224821.A28403@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:48:21 -0400 From: Lee Cremeans To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , ac199@hwcn.org Cc: Matthew Dillon , Poul-Henning Kamp , John Polstra , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make.conf Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <23602.904356827@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <23602.904356827@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Aug 28, 1998 at 07:13:47PM -0700 X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat] On Fri, Aug 28, 1998 at 07:13:47PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > getting seriously out of hand. Obviously no one here is a ten > > year-old, since as a ten-year old, I certainly never said > > You must have grown up in the country. Around here, all the 10 year > olds I know could make a sailor blush with their vocabularies. > I was more tame by comparison and probably didn't start swearing > seriously until I was at least 7 or so. :-) > > Jordan in South Park....hmmm... (naaaaah :) -- Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet and WTnet) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac/95/96 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | mailto:lcremean@tidalwave.net http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net | Powered by FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 28 23:28:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20012 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 23:28:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19952 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 23:28:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-99.camalott.com [208.229.74.99]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA12366; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:28:50 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA01517; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:27:01 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:27:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808290627.BAA01517@detlev.UUCP> To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: It's easier to port a shell than a shell script. -- Larry Wall From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Forwarded-by: "Joel Ray Holveck" Forwarded-by: "Joel N. Weber II" Forwarded-by: nev@bostic.com Forwarded-by: "Kevin D. Clark" Forwarded-by: "Jon 'maddog' Hall, USG Senior Leader" I've been attending the USENIX NT and LISA NT (Large Installation Systems Administration for NT) conference in downtown Seattle this week. One of those magical Microsoft moments(tm) happened yesterday and I thought that I'd share. Non-geeks may not find this funny at all, but those in geekdom (particularly UNIX geekdom) will appreciate it. Greg Sullivan, a Microsoft product manager (henceforth MPM), was holding forth on a forthcoming product that will provide Unix style scripting and shell services on NT for compatibility and to leverage UNIX expertise that moves to the NT platform. The product suite includes the MKS (Mortise Kern Systems) windowing Korn shell, a windowing PERL, and lots of goodies like awk, sed and grep. It actually fills a nice niche for which other products (like the MKS suite) have either been too highly priced or not well enough integrated. An older man, probably mid-50s, stands up in the back of the room and asserts that Microsoft could have done better with their choice of Korn shell. He asks if they had considered others that are more compatible with existing UNIX versions of KSH. The MPM said that the MKS shell was pretty compatible and should be able to run all UNIX scripts. The questioner again asserted that the MKS shell was not very compatible and didn't do a lot of things right that are defined in the KSH language spec. The MPM asserted again that the shell was pretty compatible and should work quite well. This assertion and counter assertion went back and forth for a bit, when another fellow member of the audience announced to the MPM that the questioner was, in fact David Korn of AT&T (now Lucent) Bell Labs. (David Korn is the author of the Korn shell) Uproarious laughter burst forth from the audience, and it was one of the only times that I have seen a (by then pink cheeked) MPM lost for words or momentarily lacking the usual unflappable confidence. So, what's a body to do when Microsoft reality collides with everyone elses? ---Lisa -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 29 02:24:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA05006 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 02:24:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA04998 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 02:24:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul7.u.washington.edu (root@saul7.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.2]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id CAA29078; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 02:23:17 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul7.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id CAA27934; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 02:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 02:18:58 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: It's easier to port a shell than a shell script. -- Larry Wall In-Reply-To: <199808290627.BAA01517@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: >This assertion and counter assertion went back and forth for a bit, when >another fellow member of the audience announced to the MPM that the >questioner was, in fact David Korn of AT&T (now Lucent) Bell Labs. (David >Korn is the author of the Korn shell) This is RICH!!! Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 29 03:42:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11309 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 03:42:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA11266 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id MAA29163 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:41:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (VMailer, from userid 101) id 4412C1517; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:37:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:37:59 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make.conf Message-ID: <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199808290058.RAA20957@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Tim Vanderhoek on Fri, Aug 28, 1998 at 09:47:18PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4598 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ moved to -chat ] According to Tim Vanderhoek: > I usually break people down into two groups: Those who use two > spaces after a period, and those who don't. If they don't, > ignore 'em since they hardly pay attention to what they write, > anyways. :) You're telling me that in English, you have to put two spaces after a period ? It is the first time I've heard of this rule... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #62: Mon Jul 27 20:47:08 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 29 03:50:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA12493 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 03:50:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA12403 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 03:50:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA01752; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:49:28 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980829204925.33494@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:49:25 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Ollivier Robert Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make.conf References: <199808290058.RAA20957@apollo.backplane.com> <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 12:37:59PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 12:37:59PM +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > [ moved to -chat ] > > According to Tim Vanderhoek: > > I usually break people down into two groups: Those who use two > > spaces after a period, and those who don't. If they don't, > > ignore 'em since they hardly pay attention to what they write, > > anyways. :) > > You're telling me that in English, you have to put two spaces after a > period ? It is the first time I've heard of this rule... Very strange. In Australia we are taught to put only one space at the end of sentences, and that a period happens about once a month but only affects 50% of the population. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 29 04:17:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA17745 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 04:17:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA17739 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 04:17:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.9.1/8.8.5) id OAA01225; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 14:16:14 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <19980829141614.09323@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 14:16:14 +0300 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make.conf References: <199808290058.RAA20957@apollo.backplane.com> <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 12:37:59PM +0200 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You, Ollivier Robert, were spotted writing this on Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 12:37:59PM +0200: > [ moved to -chat ] > > According to Tim Vanderhoek: > > I usually break people down into two groups: Those who use two > > spaces after a period, and those who don't. If they don't, > > ignore 'em since they hardly pay attention to what they write, > > anyways. :) > > You're telling me that in English, you have to put two spaces after a > period ? It is the first time I've heard of this rule... Traditionally, an inter-sentence space was larger in English typography than an inter-word space, but not necessarily twice as large; however, with typewriters (which were universal before computers were invented ;)) this could only be achieved by putting _two_ spaces after a period. Nowadays it seems to be not as universal as Tim wants to put it ;) Anyway, here's the excerpt from alt.usage.english FQ: spaces between sentences ------------------------ This issue is more suited to comp.fonts than here. In recent years, printers typesetting with proportional fonts have generally *not* made the inter-sentence space any greater than the inter-word space, although greater inter-sentence space can be found quite often in older books. Traditionally, students in typing classes have been taught to put two spaces between sentences. Some people never like the extra space, some always do, and some like it if the text is monospaced but not if it is proportionally spaced. The traditional UNIX text formatter, troff, uses extra space; in TeX it is optional, but turned on by default. The extra space, if used, need not be as much as the normal interword space (it can be less in TeX, but not in troff). Advocates of the extra space argue that the practice speeds reading by making it easier to pick out sentences. And sometimes it can aid clarity. A passage such as: | "What's pluperfect?" is a reasonably reasonable question that has | yet to be sweetly but fully answered on a.u.e. I answer the | questions about Erzherzoginen (Habsburg archduchesses). is far from clear on first reading. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 29 04:19:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA17981 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 04:19:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA17976 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 04:18:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.9.1/8.8.5) id OAA01528; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 14:18:00 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <19980829141800.40720@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 14:18:00 +0300 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make.conf References: <199808290058.RAA20957@apollo.backplane.com> <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr> <19980829204925.33494@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19980829204925.33494@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 08:49:25PM +1000 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You, Sue Blake, were spotted writing this on Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 08:49:25PM +1000: > > > > You're telling me that in English, you have to put two spaces after a > > period ? It is the first time I've heard of this rule... > > Very strange. In Australia we are taught to put only one space at the > end of sentences, and that a period happens about once a month but only > affects 50% of the population. So, on which day of a month does all 50% of Australia usually have a period? Puzzled, Anatoly. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 29 08:03:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02945 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:03:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flarn.dyn.ml.org (usr317.third-wave.com [147.72.122.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02940 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:03:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@flarn.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from mph@localhost) by flarn.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26933; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:54:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980829105446.A26914@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:54:46 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Sue Blake , Ollivier Robert Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make.conf References: <199808290058.RAA20957@apollo.backplane.com> <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr> <19980829204925.33494@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <19980829204925.33494@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 08:49:25PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 08:49:25PM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > Very strange. In Australia we are taught to put only one space at the > end of sentences, and that a period happens about once a month but only > affects 50% of the population. Bah. I think you mean "affects 50% of the population directly, and the other 50% indirectly". -- Matthew Hunt * UNIX is a lever for the intellect. -J.R. Mashey http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 29 08:10:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03773 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:10:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03768 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:10:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA25838 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:09:12 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Message-ID: <19980829170910.A20322@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:09:10 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Free fortunes... Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can anyone explain what line 1563 of /usr/src/games/fortune/datfiles/fortune is doing in our source tree? ;) -Jeremy -- | ------------------------------------------------------ --+-- "Maybe tomorrow will be better than today, | or maybe it will not come at all..." - Pam Thum | ------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 29 10:17:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14334 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:17:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14329 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pechter@shell.monmouth.com) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA06327; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:16:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199808291716.NAA06327@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: It's easier to port a shell than a shell script. -- Larry Wall To: jcwells@u.washington.edu (Jason C. Wells) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jason C. Wells" at Aug 29, 98 02:18:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > >This assertion and counter assertion went back and forth for a bit, when > >another fellow member of the audience announced to the MPM that the > >questioner was, in fact David Korn of AT&T (now Lucent) Bell Labs. (David > >Korn is the author of the Korn shell) Actually, he's David Korn of AT&T Labs now. He stayed with AT&T at the split up. > > This is RICH!!! > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ One of the programmers at my department keeps complaining about the lack of Korn Shell compliance in the MKS shell. He's got to keep writing around the stuff they don't implement. Their KSH is more KSH-88 than KSH-93 (which is the current standard). AT&T's got a KSH-93e off their web pages from research which works on FreeBSD (it was a BSDI binary). Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 29 10:49:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17310 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:49:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17289 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:49:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (wes@zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17164; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:54:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <35E83F10.1F1B5AF9@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:49:04 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anatoly Vorobey CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: American English typography (no longer: make.conf) References: <199808290058.RAA20957@apollo.backplane.com> <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr> <19980829141614.09323@techunix.technion.ac.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > > Traditionally, an inter-sentence space was larger in English typography > than an inter-word space, but not necessarily twice as large; however, > with typewriters (which were universal > before computers were invented ;)) this could only be achieved by putting > _two_ spaces after a period. Nowadays it seems to be not as universal > as Tim wants to put it ;) This used to be explicitly required by the standard reference for typed papers in the USA, the "Chicago Manual of Style." I cannot find my copy -- I haven't used it in 15 years -- and my "Harbrace College Handbook, 8th edition" does not address typography explicitly. Each of the example typewritten papers do use two spaces following each sentence, however. When using proportional fonts, the correct typography is to use an n-space between words and an m-space between sentences, IIRC. I think MS-Word does this automagically; if you type a second space following a period, it removes it. I hate it when my computer thinks it is smarter than me! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 29 12:40:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29333 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:40:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from somniac.org (pm3-10-13.stratos.net [207.86.134.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29325 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:40:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drifter@somniac.org) Received: (from drifter@localhost) by somniac.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA00464; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19980829154443.A403@stratos.net> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:44:43 -0400 From: drifter@stratos.net To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make.conf References: <199808290058.RAA20957@apollo.backplane.com> <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 12:37:59PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 12:37:59PM +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > [ moved to -chat ] > > According to Tim Vanderhoek: > > I usually break people down into two groups: Those who use two > > spaces after a period, and those who don't. If they don't, > > ignore 'em since they hardly pay attention to what they write, > > anyways. :) Where I work (a newspaper in the Cleveland area), we /have/ to use only one space after the end of each sentence in our news stories. Of course, we use DOS XyWrite... It's just that sometimes it's hard to know when I am not at work :) > > You're telling me that in English, you have to put two spaces after a > period ? It is the first time I've heard of this rule... Well, I remember hearing that rule since I was in grade school. It actually makes a lot more sense than some other "rules" in English, like not starting a sentence with "and", or not ending in a preposition. FWIW, I thnk we should stop worrying about how many WS following sentences, and more about the TLAs and FLAs and wrds w/o vwls n thm that some people in netspace use... Okay ppl??? :) -- drifter@stratos.nospam.net (remove nospam to send) "Am I the only one that cringes every time I hear somebody refer to a disk drive as a 'solution'? It's bad enough I have to listen to that marketing hype from vendors, but now it seems to be infiltrating every-day conversation. I'll decide if that 9GB hard drive is a 'solution' to my problem or not, thank you very much..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 29 18:12:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22847 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:12:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nexus.astro.psu.edu (nexus.astro.psu.edu [128.118.147.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA22841 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:12:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@astro.psu.edu) Received: from mstar.astro.psu.edu by nexus.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Nexus-1.3) id AA10859; Sat, 29 Aug 98 21:11:52 EDT Received: by mstar.astro.psu.edu (SMI-8.6/Client-1.3) id VAA08895; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:11:46 -0400 Message-Id: <19980829211145.A8882@astro.psu.edu> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:11:45 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Wes Peters , Anatoly Vorobey Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: American English typography (no longer: make.conf) References: <199808290058.RAA20957@apollo.backplane.com> <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr> <19980829141614.09323@techunix.technion.ac.il> <35E83F10.1F1B5AF9@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <35E83F10.1F1B5AF9@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 11:49:04AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 11:49:04AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > When using proportional fonts, the correct typography is to use an > n-space between words and an m-space between sentences, IIRC. I > think MS-Word does this automagically; if you type a second space > following a period, it removes it. I hate it when my computer thinks > it is smarter than me! Hm... does it know about every conveivable abbreviation? That is, if "Dr." or "Mr." appears mid-sentence, it should an n-space following it. Likewise for some obscure or made-up abbreviation. LaTeX for example handles the spaces automatically, but since its knowledge of abbreviations is finite, there is a manual override (backslashes, of course). -- Matthew Hunt * Science rules. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message