From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 13 14:54:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08403 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:54:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08398 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:54:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrE-38.aei.ca [206.186.204.238]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18931; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35FC3F05.F22EB30@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:54:13 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christopher Raven CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Broken link? References: <35FAAF71.E4A0CA2C@ukonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Christopher Raven wrote: > > I have begun compiling a list of answers to the > questions most often asked on the > questions-mailing list. The pages are at : > > http://dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org/~chrisr/ Really nice. But why it's not a part of the FAQ? -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 13 15:14:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11236 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:14:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11231 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:14:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id PAA02937 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:14:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:14:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: STILL looking for testers for ThunderLAN driver (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Note: I am forwarding this to -chat since AFAIK there are people on -chat who are not on either -hackers or -net. Those of you who are on either -hackers or -net: sorry :( -- Yan I don't have the password .... + Jan Koum But the path is chainlinked .. | Spelled Jan, pronounced Yan. There. So if you've got the time .... | Web: http://www.best.com/~jkb Set the tone to sync ......... + OS: http://www.FreeBSD.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:08:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Paul To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: STILL looking for testers for ThunderLAN driver This is my _third_ call for testers for the ThunderLAN PCI network driver. So far, response to the first two calls for testers has been totally underwhelming. Look people, this isn't hard: if you have a Compaq PCI Netelligent or NetFlex 3/P card or a Compaq system with a built-in Netelligent or NetFlex 3/P ethernet controller, or an Olicom ThunderLAN=based adapter, download the driver from http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/ThunderLAN and give it a try. If works great for you, then tell me. If it doesn't work, then also tell me, and give me lots of information about what doesn't work, what error messages you see, what hardware you have, and anything else that might make it easier for me to debug the problem. Apparently some people are unable to quite grasp this concept so I'm going to spell it out for you in graphic detail. You may wish to escort little children out of the room until I'm finished. This is what I want you to do: - If you have a Compaq system or Compaq network adapter, then establish whether or not it has a PCI ThunderLAN chip. Note that I said PCI. That's PCI: pee-see-eye. _NOT_ EISA. _NOT_ ISA. _NOT_ PCMCIA. Don't send me e-mail asking me what kind of card you have: YOU look in the manual and find out for yourself. Here's a hint: a NetFlex/E is an EISA bus card. A NetFlex/P is a PCI card. I'm not the least bit interested in the NetFlex/E, only the NetFlex/P. PCI ThunderLAN chips are about 1 inch square, have a Texas Instruments logo imprinted on them along with the word TLAN superimposed over a lightning bolt. There should be a part number that looks something like TNETE100A, or TNETE100PCM, or something to that effect. - If you can conclusively determine that you have a PCI ThunderLAN device, download the driver from http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/ThunderLAN and compile a new kernel. There are instructions there that explain how to do this. There's driver code for 3.0-current and 2.2.x (where x can be 5, 6 or 7; don't know about 2.2.1 or 2.2.2). - Boot the kernel and see if a tl0 device is detected and properly attached. If the driver complains that it couldn't read the station address from the EEPROM, then the attach will have failed. If you see 'tl0: Ethernet address: xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx' then it succeeded. - It's possible you may have a ThunderLAN adapder who's PCI device ID does not appear in the device list in if_tlreg.h. If you think this is the case, try temporarily changing one of the PCI device IDs in if_tlreg.h to match your device's ID and see if the adapter is probed successfully. If so, e-mail me the device ID and the official name of the adapter (if you know it) so that I can update the list. - If the interface is attached correctly, connect the ThunderLAN NIC to a network and run some tests. See if you can get 100Mbps out of it. Beat up on it. Try to induce problems. Report back to me how well it works or fails to work. - Once you are satisfied that the driver works well, or you have found a problem, e-mail me at wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu and send me the following information: o The type of adapter you have and the type of system in which it is installed o If the adapter is integrated into your machine, provide the model number of the entire system o The version of FreeBSD you're using o An accurate and ___***DETAILED***___ description of any problem(s) you have encountered. Include _ALL_ error messages that you see. Quote the messages exactly: do not make half- hearted attempts to remember or interpret them. Just copy them down exactly and show them to me. o If you report a problem, be prepared to try patches that I might send you to fix the problem. Now here are examples of resports that I do not want to see, and the replies you're likely to get from me if see them: - "Hi, I have a Compaq GrumbleSmurf 2100 machine; does this system have a ThunderLAN adapter in it?" Don't send me questions like this. It's your hardware, you have the manuals for it, you can pop the cover and look inside it. _YOU_ tell _ME_ if it has a ThunderLAN PCI NIC in it. If I had a complete list of all Compaq models with ThunderLAN PCI NICs in them, I would have listed them here, but I don't. - "Hi, I have several Compaq systems with ThunderLAN NICs, but they're all in production running Windows NT and I can't shut them down to test them with FreeBSD." Then why did you bother writing me. - "Hi: I don't run FreeBSD, but do you know if your driver will work with Linux? I have a Compaq machine running Linux version mumble and I'm trying to set up networking on it." No, FreeBSD device drivers don't work with Linux. No, I will not help you set up Linux. If you want help with Linux, go subscribe to a Linux mailing list. If you persist in bothering me, agents of the sooper sekrit FreeBSD Cabal (tinfc) will sneak into your home, send me your machine so that I can do some decent testing, and replace it with a cardboard box with the word 'Compaq' written on it. Chances are you'll never notice the difference. - "Hi, I have a Compaq machine with a Netelligent NIC and I tried your driver, but I encountered some problems. Unfortunately, I'm going out of town for a month and I won't be able to give you any details or do any troubleshooting until then." I'm hoping to get this driver code into FreeBSD 3.0, which is due to ship inside of a couple of months, so I don't have time to wait for people to get back from their vacations/business trips/cruises/etc. Give me a break here people. - "Hi, I tried your driver but I got an error saying that something failed. Can you help me?" No. - "Hi, I have a Compaq machine running Windows 95. How do I install FreeBSD?" I'm sorry, this is device driver testing: brain implants are two doors down on the right. - "unsubscribe" Was it something I said? So come on people, I know there have to be some people out there with Compaq machines who want to use their built-in PCI NIC. If you don't have one, see if your friend has one. Or your friend's friend. If they're running Linux, convince them to try FreeBSD. Now's your big chance to contribute. Soon even you could be a member of the FreeBSD Cabal (tinfc). -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 13 15:36:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14070 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:36:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hertz.ukonline.co.uk (hertz.ukonline.co.uk [195.40.112.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA13980 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:35:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: (qmail 251 invoked from network); 13 Sep 1998 22:52:23 -0000 Received: from lon7-13.ukonline.co.uk (HELO ukonline.co.uk) (195.40.114.13) by hertz.ukonline.co.uk with SMTP; 13 Sep 1998 22:52:23 -0000 Message-ID: <35FC483E.42752291@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:33:34 +0100 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Malartre CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Broken link? References: <35FAAF71.E4A0CA2C@ukonline.co.uk> <35FC3F05.F22EB30@aei.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Malartre wrote: > Christopher Raven wrote: > > > > I have begun compiling a list of answers to the > > questions most often asked on the > > questions-mailing list. The pages are at : > > > > http://dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org/~chrisr/ > Really nice. But why it's not a part of the FAQ? At the moment it's still a work in progress, as bits get finished I will gladly reformat them to fit the FAQ if nobody objects? rgds, Chris R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 13 16:51:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23140 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:51:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (castles233.castles.com [208.214.165.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23115 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:51:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08141; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:57:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Message-Id: <199809132357.QAA08141@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Upgrading 2.2.2 to 3.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:45:19 -0000." <199809132345.QAA24067@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:57:00 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Upgrading from anything other than the most recent release is never > > > supported. In this case that means you can't start from anything > > > earlier than 2.2.7 and expect it to work. > > > > Okiedokie. > > Har. > > This means that I won't be able to install 2.2.8-release unless I > first install 3.0-release, I guess. > > 8-). 2.2.7 is "most recent" from 2.2.8. Prior to 2.2.8 being released, 2.2.7 is "most recent" from 3.0. When 2.2.8 comes out, it will take that place. Just gotta learn to count someday, Terry. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 13 17:09:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26739 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:09:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26731 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:09:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00568; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:09:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd000553; Sun Sep 13 17:09:22 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA24984; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:09:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199809140009.RAA24984@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Upgrading 2.2.2 to 3.0 To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:09:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199809132357.QAA08141@word.smith.net.au> from "Mike Smith" at Sep 13, 98 04:57:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > Upgrading from anything other than the most recent release is never > > > > supported. In this case that means you can't start from anything > > > > earlier than 2.2.7 and expect it to work. [ ... ] > > This means that I won't be able to install 2.2.8-release unless I > > first install 3.0-release, I guess. [ ... ] > 2.2.7 is "most recent" from 2.2.8. Prior to 2.2.8 being released, > 2.2.7 is "most recent" from 3.0. When 2.2.8 comes out, it will take > that place. > > Just gotta learn to count someday, Terry. Not true. The 3.0 release will predate the 2.2.8 release. "Upgrading from anything other than the most recent release is never supported". So when 2.2.8 arrives, 3.0 will be "the most recent release". Of course, we could just take issue with the use of "never", here... On the other hand, if 2.2.8 is release, then does this mean that upgrading from 2.2.8 to 3.0 *will* be supported? I don't think so; how can you test the upgrade path for something that doesn't exist yet? 8-). On beyond Zebra... when 2.2.8 is released, I guess the "never" statement means that upgrading from 2.2.7-release to 3.0-release won't be supported any longer... 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 13 23:33:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12335 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:33:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gate.consol.de (gate.consol.de [194.162.127.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12330 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:33:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Michael.Elbel@consol.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: Michael.Elbel@consol.de (at relayer gate.consol.de) Received: from msgsrv.bb.consol.de (root@msgsrv [10.250.0.100]) by gate.consol.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25095; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:33:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from fourier.int.consol.de (me@fourier.int.consol.de [10.0.1.17]) by msgsrv.bb.consol.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16349; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:33:25 +0200 Received: (from me@localhost) by fourier.int.consol.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA26536; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:33:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from me) Message-ID: <19980914083324.A24354@consol.de> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:33:24 +0200 From: Michael Elbel To: Gregory Sutter Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ed References: <9698.905291210@time.cdrom.com> <35F7CF17.E0C82BCA@softweyr.com> <19980910110605.B20261@notabene.zer0.org> <199809111215.OAA06968@fourier.int.consol.de> <19980912234507.N997@notabene.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <19980912234507.N997@notabene.zer0.org>; from Gregory Sutter on Sat, Sep 12, 1998 at 11:45:07PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Sep 12, 1998 at 11:45:07PM -0700, Gregory Sutter wrote: > On Fri, Sep 11, 1998 at 02:15:28PM +0200, Michael Elbel wrote: > > In lists.freebsd.chat you write: > > > > >emacs (Eighteen Megs And Crashes Steadily, someone once told me) > > > > Shows you're way too young :) "Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping" it is. > > Hey, I resemble that remark. > > > how far back you have to go that eight megs was lots of memory on a Unix > > That's farther back than my Unix history goes, but only by a little. 1983 - the days when we were overawed of that VAX 720. When, at least in Munich one still would take a Fortran class and work at one of those PDP/11s with the switches on the front panel. And be glad about it (we were the Electrical Engineering department) because those poor CS people still had to punch cards for their first language class. The joy of being allowed to hack on that gorgeous CP/M System with the 5 MHZ 8085 and the incredible 64 kB of memory all to ourselves. Not to forget the 5 MB of harddrive those things had. Can you imagine it, a CP/M system with a hard drive? Michael -- \|/ -O- Michael Elbel, ConSol* GmbH, - me@consol.de - 089 / 45841-256 /|\ Fermentation fault (coors dumped) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 14 07:30:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA11385 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:30:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11201 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:30:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA25086; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:15:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA19415; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:15:30 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980914161530.26760@follo.net> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:15:30 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unused functions References: <199809140009.TAA28013@isua4.iastate.edu> <199809140114.SAA08497@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199809140114.SAA08497@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Sep 13, 1998 at 06:14:32PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Sep 13, 1998 at 06:14:32PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > Just so I completely understand, if I truely use only one function in from > > a .o file and no other function is using anything in this .o file, the > > entire .o file is still pulled into the executable? So, there are could be > > a lot of unused, unreachable code in an executable. Nothing can be done to > > remove the bloat after the executable has been linked? Is this commonly the > > way its done on other systems as well? I had always assumed that unused > > functions and data were tosed out. > > In most object formats, reference information is kept on a per-object > basis (ie. per .o file). Keeping this sort of information on any > smaller granularity would lead to an insane increase in the complexity > and corresponding performance reduction of the link phase. "Insane" is somewhat an overstatement here. E.g. Eiffel and Sather does things this way, doing a full call-tree analysis to throw away unused code (globally). This does not spend large amounts of time. If I have to choose between the compiler/linker spending a little more time and generating incorrect or sub-optimal code, I will almost always want the linker & compiler to spend more time. Eivind, who want link-time optimization - to get truly global optimizations. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 14 13:58:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17448 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:58:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17325 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:58:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (pm03-18.aei.ca [206.123.6.168]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21472; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35FD833D.6734F893@aei.ca> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:57:33 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Upgrading 2.2.2 to 3.0 References: <199809140009.RAA24984@usr04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > > Upgrading from anything other than the most recent release is never > > > > > supported. In this case that means you can't start from anything > > > > > earlier than 2.2.7 and expect it to work. > > [ ... ] > > > > This means that I won't be able to install 2.2.8-release unless I > > > first install 3.0-release, I guess. > > [ ... ] > > > 2.2.7 is "most recent" from 2.2.8. Prior to 2.2.8 being released, > > 2.2.7 is "most recent" from 3.0. When 2.2.8 comes out, it will take > > that place. > > > > Just gotta learn to count someday, Terry. > > Not true. The 3.0 release will predate the 2.2.8 release. > > "Upgrading from anything other than the most recent release is never > supported". > > So when 2.2.8 arrives, 3.0 will be "the most recent release". > > Of course, we could just take issue with the use of "never", here... > > On the other hand, if 2.2.8 is release, then does this mean that > upgrading from 2.2.8 to 3.0 *will* be supported? I don't think > so; how can you test the upgrade path for something that doesn't > exist yet? 8-). > > On beyond Zebra... when 2.2.8 is released, I guess the "never" > statement means that upgrading from 2.2.7-release to 3.0-release > won't be supported any longer... 8-) 8-). > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message Ok, but just want to know what will happen in the FAQ and handbook: will they support each version or will slowly start to move to 3.x and loose support for 2.2.x? -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 15 06:06:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01763 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:06:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01507 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:05:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25831; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:03:36 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199809151303.KAA25831@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: Indonesia In-Reply-To: from wtatt at "Sep 15, 98 10:42:09 pm" To: wtatt@goldnet.com.au (wtatt) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:03:36 -0300 (EST) Cc: cvsup@cvsup.br.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org #define quoting(wtatt) // From wtatt@goldnet.com.au Tue Sep 15 09:42:20 1998 // Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:42:09 +1000 // From: wtatt // To: "cvsup" // Subject: Indonesia // Message-Id: // Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII // // Hi cvsup // // I have your address from the looking through Indonesian // sites for Indonesian contacts. I am in Australia. Better you go back to school and study a little more. Brasil is not and have never been in Indonesia... But, why should I expect brains from somebody doing spam ? // // The company I work with is just beginning operations in // Indonesia and I am looking for a few people who may be // interested in talking with me about it. // // We are a direct sale company who has health and nutrition // products. We are a very large company. I am looking for // people with an interest in health, nutrition, fitness or // personal productivity. I am also looking for people who // would like to build additional income. // // If you are interested in any of these things I would // appreciate you taking a minute to check out my homesite. // It talks about what our products are and what they do. If // this interests you then I would be happy to talk about // how to get some of our products but I am mainly // interested in finding some people who will discuss // helping us with distribution of our products in // Indonesia. We just opened for business on Monday and we // need a lot of people to help build the market there. // If this interests you will you please check our site at // // http://www.goldnet.com.au/~wtatt // // If this is something that interests you please contact me and I will // arrange some more information for you. // // (If it is not of interest then thank you for your time, I will not contact you // again.) // // I am looking forward to your comments, // // Very best wishes, // // Warren Tattersall // // Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro "This .sig is not meant to be politically correct." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 15 09:32:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08557 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:32:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08548 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:31:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ycs@netvision.net.il) Received: from netvision.net.il (RAS1-p40.hfa.netvision.net.il [62.0.145.40]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA30230 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:30:21 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <35FE8837.E24C5AA1@netvision.net.il> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:31:03 +0300 From: Yoav Cohen-Sivan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Info on link-editing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can anyone point me to a good in-depth discussion of the link-editing and loading processes? I am looking for info on how the linker and compiler use symbols and relocations to generate the various object files. I've searched using every web engine I know of to no avail... Yoav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 15 10:40:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22440 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:40:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22412 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:40:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (2602@skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id TAA00942; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:40:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:39:57 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Yoav Cohen-Sivan Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Info on link-editing References: <35FE8837.E24C5AA1@netvision.net.il> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Co=EFdan?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 15 Sep 1998 19:39:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: Yoav Cohen-Sivan's message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:31:03 +0300" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA22425 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yoav Cohen-Sivan writes: > Can anyone point me to a good in-depth discussion of the link-editing and > loading processes? I am looking for info on how the linker and compiler use > symbols and relocations to generate the various object files. Use The Source, Luke! DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 15 12:28:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12828 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:28:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12786 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:28:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00494; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:33:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199809151933.MAA00494@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Yoav Cohen-Sivan cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Info on link-editing In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:31:03 +0300." <35FE8837.E24C5AA1@netvision.net.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:33:15 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Can anyone point me to a good in-depth discussion of the link-editing and > loading processes? I am looking for info on how the linker and compiler use > symbols and relocations to generate the various object files. > > I've searched using every web engine I know of to no avail... There is a reasonably succinct description of the FreeBSD a.out shared library implementation in the link(5) manpage, which is well worth reading even if it is a little historic now. 8) The ELF documentation (which we should have a link to somewhere) should cover the datastructures and processes related to ELF, from which you can also learn a lot. Aside from that, this is one of those journeyman topics that traditionally one researches with source code and experimentation. I doubt that many CS compiler courses bother with it. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 15 13:06:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20734 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:06:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20666 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Received: from plutotech.com (tampopo.plutotech.com [206.168.67.161]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23645; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:03:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35FEC7FA.C7EEFF2E@plutotech.com> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:03:06 -0600 From: Sean Kelly Organization: Pluto Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: Yoav Cohen-Sivan , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Info on link-editing References: <199809151933.MAA00494@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > [ link-editing ] > I doubt that many CS compiler courses bother with it. 8) Not CS423, which was the compiler course. Oh, but I remember fondly CS222 ... what was it? 10 years now. We wrote a one-pass link-editor. Those were the days. :-) --Sean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 16 11:09:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00753 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:09:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00471 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:08:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA03821; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199809161807.MAA03821@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.52 (Beta) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:06:24 -0600 To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Co=EFdanSm=F8rgrav?= ), Yoav Cohen-Sivan From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Info on link-editing Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <35FE8837.E24C5AA1@netvision.net.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA00497 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There should be some documentation for the binary and object formats independent of the source if it's to be anything like a "standard." One shouldn't have to look through the linker, AND the loader, AND the GNU C Compiler (which, in fact, you CAN'T look through unless you want your work to come under the nasty GPL). --Brett At 07:39 PM 9/15/98 +0200, Dag-Erling CoïdanSmørgrav wrote: >Yoav Cohen-Sivan writes: >> Can anyone point me to a good in-depth discussion of the link-editing and >> loading processes? I am looking for info on how the linker and compiler use >> symbols and relocations to generate the various object files. > >Use The Source, Luke! > >DES >-- >Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 16 12:07:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12505 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:07:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12468 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:07:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (2602@skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id VAA23433; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:06:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:06:46 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Yoav Cohen-Sivan , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Info on link-editing References: <35FE8837.E24C5AA1@netvision.net.il> <199809161807.MAA03821@lariat.lariat.org> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Co=EFdan?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 16 Sep 1998 21:06:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: Brett Glass's message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:06:24 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA12480 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > At 07:39 PM 9/15/98 +0200, Dag-Erling CoïdanSmørgrav wrote: > > Yoav Cohen-Sivan writes: > > > Can anyone point me to a good in-depth discussion of the link-editing and > > > loading processes? I am looking for info on how the linker and compiler use > > > symbols and relocations to generate the various object files. > > Use The Source, Luke! > There should be some documentation for the binary and object formats > independent of the source if it's to be anything like a "standard." > One shouldn't have to look through the linker, AND the loader, AND > the GNU C Compiler (which, in fact, you CAN'T look through unless > you want your work to come under the nasty GPL). Yup. Should have used a smiley. But as others have pointed out, though there is plenty of info available about the Elf binary format, the linking process itself is not as well documented except in the source. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 16 12:42:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20480 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:42:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20408 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:42:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA04616; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:41:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199809161941.NAA04616@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.52 (Beta) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:40:12 -0600 To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Co=EFdanSm=F8rgrav?= ) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Info on link-editing Cc: Yoav Cohen-Sivan , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <35FE8837.E24C5AA1@netvision.net.il> <199809161807.MAA03821@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA20423 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does FreeBSD use Elf? To my knowledge, it doesn't. --Brett At 09:06 PM 9/16/98 +0200, Dag-Erling CoïdanSmørgrav wrote: >Brett Glass writes: >> At 07:39 PM 9/15/98 +0200, Dag-Erling CoïdanSmørgrav wrote: >> > Yoav Cohen-Sivan writes: >> > > Can anyone point me to a good in-depth discussion of the link-editing and >> > > loading processes? I am looking for info on how the linker and >compiler use >> > > symbols and relocations to generate the various object files. >> > Use The Source, Luke! >> There should be some documentation for the binary and object formats >> independent of the source if it's to be anything like a "standard." >> One shouldn't have to look through the linker, AND the loader, AND >> the GNU C Compiler (which, in fact, you CAN'T look through unless >> you want your work to come under the nasty GPL). > >Yup. Should have used a smiley. But as others have pointed out, though >there is plenty of info available about the Elf binary format, the >linking process itself is not as well documented except in the source. > >DES >-- >Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 16 15:29:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25999 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:29:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25927 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id AAA13055 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:29:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (VMailer, from userid 101) id A0A391572; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:16:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:16:16 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Info on link-editing Message-ID: <19980917001616.A17367@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <199809161807.MAA03821@lariat.lariat.org> <199809161941.NAA04616@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.4i In-Reply-To: <199809161941.NAA04616@lariat.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Wed, Sep 16, 1998 at 01:40:12PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4648 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Brett Glass: > Does FreeBSD use Elf? To my knowledge, it doesn't. You definitely don't run -current :-) ELF has been the default binary format for 2 weeks :) 239 [0:05] roberto@keltia:/build/19980910> file /bin/ls /bin/ls: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), statically linked, stripped 240 [0:15] roberto@keltia:/build/19980910> ll /bin/ls -r-xr-xr-x 1 root staff 173152 Sep 11 23:11 /bin/ls* -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #64: Fri Sep 11 23:22:44 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 16 15:45:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29498 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:45:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29453 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:45:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA06224; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:49:05 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199809162249.IAA06224@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Info on link-editing In-Reply-To: <19980917001616.A17367@keltia.freenix.fr> from Ollivier Robert at "Sep 17, 98 00:16:16 am" To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:49:05 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Brett Glass: > > Does FreeBSD use Elf? To my knowledge, it doesn't. Sigh. > > You definitely don't run -current :-) > > ELF has been the default binary format for 2 weeks :) This is not true. The default binary format is what is compiled into objformat. That will change to elf _just_ before 3.0 goes to release. For the time being, upgrading to elf is an option, but not required. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 17 02:22:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02213 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 02:22:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA02105 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 02:21:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id IHPIIMAL; Thu, 17 Sep 98 09:21:27 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917111701.0094e580@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:17:01 +0200 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Recent spamming of the lists Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Would it be possible to set up any kind of filter to kill these spammers, on the mailing list demon itself? (ps. I'm not subscribed to -chat, so please CC: me) --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 17 05:58:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA02723 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 05:58:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA02709 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 05:57:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA05653; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:57:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA02408; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:57:31 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980917145730.56017@follo.net> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:57:30 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Marius Bendiksen , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recent spamming of the lists References: <3.0.5.32.19980917111701.0094e580@mail.scancall.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980917111701.0094e580@mail.scancall.no>; from Marius Bendiksen on Thu, Sep 17, 1998 at 11:17:01AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Sep 17, 1998 at 11:17:01AM +0200, Marius Bendiksen wrote: > Would it be possible to set up any kind of filter to kill these spammers, > on the > mailing list demon itself? There are a bunch of filters already. Otherwise, you'd see much, much more of these. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 17 06:55:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10397 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:55:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA10376 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id PAA25900; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:54:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:54:30 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund Cc: Marius Bendiksen , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recent spamming of the lists References: <3.0.5.32.19980917111701.0094e580@mail.scancall.no> <19980917145730.56017@follo.net> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Co=EFdan?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 17 Sep 1998 15:54:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: Eivind Eklund's message of "Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:57:30 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id GAA10387 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund writes: > On Thu, Sep 17, 1998 at 11:17:01AM +0200, Marius Bendiksen wrote: > > Would it be possible to set up any kind of filter to kill these spammers, > > on the > > mailing list demon itself? > There are a bunch of filters already. Otherwise, you'd see much, much > more of these. The only permanent solution is a twelve-gauge. Please note that such a course of action is frowned upon, or even illegal, in many countries. DES ("double-barreled for extra stopping power") -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 17 08:16:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23573 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:16:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from login-2.eunet.no (login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23556 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:16:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) Received: from login-1.eunet.no (49607@login-1.eunet.no [193.71.71.238]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.9.0/8.9.0/GN) with ESMTP id RAA26807; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:15:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (mbendiks@localhost) by login-1.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA22856; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:15:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) X-Authentication-Warning: login-1.eunet.no: mbendiks owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:15:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Marius Bendiksen To: Marius Bendiksen cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recent spamming of the lists In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980917154445.00964260@mail.scancall.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ahh. How about a implementing a subscribe-write-only command, where the entry has to be reviewed by someone? This would allow people like Dyson and Helmuth to stay involved even though they don't subscribe anymore. If I've understood correctly, those people are the primary reason why the lists allow unsubscribed adresses to submit? --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-trainee, ScanCall AS >There are a bunch of filters already. Otherwise, you'd see much, much >more of these. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 17 08:38:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26755 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:38:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26717 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA07792; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:37:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA02802; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:37:35 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980917173734.14562@follo.net> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:37:34 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Marius Bendiksen , Marius Bendiksen Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recent spamming of the lists References: <3.0.5.32.19980917154445.00964260@mail.scancall.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Marius Bendiksen on Thu, Sep 17, 1998 at 05:15:42PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Sep 17, 1998 at 05:15:42PM +0200, Marius Bendiksen wrote: > Ahh. How about a implementing a subscribe-write-only command, where the > entry has to be reviewed by someone? This would allow people like Dyson > and Helmuth to stay involved even though they don't subscribe anymore. Where are the patches? > If I've understood correctly, those people are the primary reason why > the lists allow unsubscribed adresses to submit? Well, a lot of us use different subscription and posting addresses. However, a 'subscribe-write-only' sounds like a good way of handling this (though I don't know about the review part - sounds like a lot of work for no particular gain. Let's just approve 'em right away.) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 17 11:15:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24450 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:15:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24441 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:14:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA19200; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:14:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:14:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Marius Bendiksen cc: Marius Bendiksen , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recent spamming of the lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Marius Bendiksen wrote: > Ahh. How about a implementing a subscribe-write-only command, where the > entry has to be reviewed by someone? This would allow people like Dyson > and Helmuth to stay involved even though they don't subscribe anymore. Who would be doing the reviewing? Are you volunteering? :-) A more sane approach would be to allow subscribers to post without review, and non-subscriber posts must be OK'd. Even that could create a lot of work for someone. > If I've understood correctly, those people are the primary reason why > the lists allow unsubscribed adresses to submit? > > --- > Marius Bendiksen, IT-trainee, ScanCall AS > > >There are a bunch of filters already. Otherwise, you'd see much, much > >more of these. > -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 17 17:56:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21192 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:56:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21076 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:55:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11085; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:59:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199809180059.KAA11085@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/contrib/perl5/hints freebsd.sh In-Reply-To: <199809180041.RAA14180@austin.polstra.com> from John Polstra at "Sep 17, 98 05:41:22 pm" To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:59:41 +1000 (EST) Cc: mark@grondar.za, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Polstra wrote: > In article <199809170603.IAA03554@gratis.grondar.za>, > Mark Murray wrote: > > > This is where I start passing the hat around for a contract on the > > Perl5 developers' heads. Grrr. > > > > They have built a twisty little maze of interdependant scripts that > > is _nasty_ to unravel. These scripts are riddled with path searchers > > and other crap that overrides the build environment. > > After this, perhaps you'll be in the right state of mind to really > enjoy working on GNU binutils ... ;-) >From what I can see, perl5 wins the award. At least binutils doesn't try to be both an operating system and God as well. I had a bad dream about perl5 the other day - I had to submit a perl5 application to a quality audit and justify the test results for a mission critical application. Luckily I woke up. 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 18 00:03:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19477 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:03:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19469 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02953; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:03:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980918000322.A2935@mooseriver.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:03:22 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Retail page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Retail outlets for FreeBSD A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at (http://www.freebsd-support.com/Retail.html). Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email, and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD. This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th. -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 18 00:05:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19649 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:05:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19643 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:05:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02973; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:05:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980918000505.B2935@mooseriver.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:05:05 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Counter page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Counter Project The FreeBSD Counter project and BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) have put up the first public beta of it's counter page. The Counter project is an attempt to gauge the installed base of FreeBSD. We current do not have a very good idea as to what is our installed base, how FreeBSD is being used and by whom. Because of this, FreeBSD is at a disadvantage when talking to ISVs and hardware and software vendors. You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can be found at : http://superior.mooseriver.com/FbsdCounter.html Couple of caveats: * This is a beta release. It is not perfect and will have a few bugs and flaws. If you find any please let us know. * You will be talking to a web server over a slow connection (28.8KB). Do NOT expect miracles! When most of the bugs and kinks have been shook out, the page will be moved to a machine with a faster connection (T1 or T3) * Suggestions and comments are welcome! * The database behind this page was built from the email registrations sent to Walnut Creek. If you registered at the time of an install chances are you are in this database. * Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the project, FreeBSD core group, and Walnut Creek CDROM will ever see this information. It will _NOT_ be handed over to spamers, direct marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos. Josef (jgrosch@MooseRiver.com) -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 18 07:44:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04404 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:44:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA04390 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:44:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id IIKTLUAJ; Fri, 18 Sep 98 14:44:04 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980918163937.00a80380@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:39:37 +0200 To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Co=EFdanSm=F8rgrav?= ) From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: Recent spamming of the lists Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980917111701.0094e580@mail.scancall.no> <19980917145730.56017@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >The only permanent solution is a twelve-gauge. Please note that such a >course of action is frowned upon, or even illegal, in many countries. Indeed :) I suppose the U.S., and most of europe have to be counted amongst these? --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 18 15:48:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20898 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:48:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20729 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:46:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-112.camalott.com [208.229.74.112]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09381; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:47:06 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA05949; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:46:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:46:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809182246.RAA05949@detlev.UUCP> To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fw: Dell Announces Free Software From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Forwarded-by: joelh@gnu.org Forwarded-by: Tim Ney Dell Ships PCs, Servers With Linux By Connie Guglielmo Although there's no mention of the Linux operating system anywhere on its World Wide Web storefront, leading PC maker Dell Computer Corp. acknowledged last week it has been delivering servers with the popular freeware software factory-installed to corporate customers over the past year as part of a recently formalized program that extends its long-standing tradition of offering build-to-order systems. Dell said it will factory-install the Unix-based operating system on PC systems for customers who purchase a minimum of 50 machines per quarter, Jim Mazzola, a spokesman at Dell's enterprise systems group, said last week. There's no minimum on the server side, but customers who want a single server with Linux, or any other nonsupported OS or custom software factory-installed, will be charged an additional $250 set-up fee for the server, Mazzola added. While more than 46 hardware resellers in 10 countries offer desktop, laptop and server systems equipped with the free operating system, which was created in 1991 by Finnish programmer Linus Torvalds, Dell apparently becomes the first major PC maker to ship systems with Linux preinstalled. But the company, which sells more than $6 million in PC hardware and servers off its Web site each day, said it has no plans to add Linux to its list of supported PC or network operating systems -- at least for now. That means consumers interested in buying a personal computer from Dell -- or from any of the other major PC makers, for that matter -- can only buy desktop and laptop machines with a version of Microsoft Corp.'s Windows or Windows NT operating systems installed. "We shipped our first servers with Linux factory-installed about a year ago," Mazzola said, adding that the majority of server systems that Dell ships today are outfitted with Windows NT and Novell Inc.'s Netware network operating system. "Since early this year, we've gotten about two calls per week asking us about Linux." Interest in Linux, as well as customer requests to have custom software and hardware preconfigured on Dell hardware, led the company to launch an informal program about 18 months ago that allowed customers in the U.S. and Europe to order built-to-order systems with "homegrown" applications, specialized software and peripherals and other hardware factory-installed, Mazzola said. On June 30, the company formalized the program and announced it would build custom-configured systems as part of its "DellPlus" integration program for its PowerEdge servers and PCs. "The DellPlus program is a logical extension of the build-to-order model that helped grow Dell as a company," Mazzola said. In the past few months, major database makers including Informix Corp., Oracle Corp. and Sybase Inc. have said they are at work on Linux versions of their applications, and Netscape Communications Corp. announced plans to support the operating system as a platform for its popular Web server software. "I'm not surprised that they are supplying Linux in limited amounts, because they don't want to lose those accounts," said Larry Augustin, founder of VA Research Inc. -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 18 18:39:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23689 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:39:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23668 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04439 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:39:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: nev@bostic.com: Userology. Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:39:28 -0700 Message-ID: <4435.906169168@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry, but this was just too spot-on to resist sharing with this list. :-) ------- Forwarded Message From: nev@bostic.com Message-Id: <199809182005.QAA08594@mongoose.bsdi.com> To: nev@bostic.com (/dev/null) Subject: Userology. Forwarded-by: Roland Grefer Forwarded-by: "Matthew J. Probst " From: Criminy USEROLOGY ========= On Different Kinds of Users and How to Spot Them The Common Idiot - ---------------- The basic user. Mostly just sits in front of its monitor and drools over some pornsite. Typical dialogue: U: "Machine no work." S: "What's wrong with it?" U: "Machine no work." S: "Ok. Which machine do you use?" U: "Machine no work." S: "Right, I heard you. Where is your machine?" U: "Machine no work!" S: "*sigh* I'll come with you back to your room." U: "Machine no work?" S: "Go back to room." U: "Go back. Room." Frequency of appearance: *Much* too often. Suggested treatment: Kill. The Mumbler on the Treshold - --------------------------- Appears at the sysadmin's doorstep and speaks very, very softly. Sometimes it's possible to get it to speak up a little. Very often, it'll go away at the slightest provocation. Typical dialogue: U: "mumblemumblenetscapemumblemumblemumble" S: "Excuse me?" U: "mumblemumblemubleservicepackmumble" S: "Sorry, I can't hear you." U: "...can't start Netscape..." S: "Try clicking on the Netscape icon." U: "mumblemumblemumblemumblemumblemumble" Frequency of appearance: Much too often. Suggested treatment: Kill. The Rabid Guesser - ----------------- Barges into the sysadmin's room and starts spouting nonsense, usually in a quite aggressive fashion. Has picked up a technical term or two somehow, and blames everything on those terms. Typical dialogue: U: "You have to do something about the collisions on the SCSI channel!" S: "What?" U: "It can't go on like this, you must fix it, now!" S: "What was the problem again?" U: "The SCSI doesn't work, that's what. And it's slow." S: "How can it be slow if it doesn't work?" U: "I don't know, you're the expert, not I." S: "What's the problem?" U: "It's slow. Didn't you listen when I told you?" S: "*What* is slow?" ...and so on until the sysadmin grows tired, follows the user to its workplace and discovers that it has pulled the network cable out of the workstation. Why it started talking about SCSI is never revealed. Frequency of appearance: Much too often. Suggested treatment: Kill. The Economist - ------------- This is a *really* nasty one. Typical dialogue: U: "So, what are the options for the new server?" S: "Well, first we have the Dungheap MT. It's larger than our computer room, needs the Niagara Falls to power it, it's ugly, it laughs evilly if you get too close to its console, it reeks of brimstone, Greenpeace and Exxon have made a joint statement cursing the moment it was created, it's illegal to import to most of the civilised world, it has a habit of sending nasty email to CEOs, its mother was a hamster and its father smelled of elderberries. And it doesn't do what we need anyway. Secondly, we have the Frotzpock 3000. It's small, elegant, doubles as a coatrack, draws its power from the Earth's magnetic field, it sings cute little songs, spreads happiness wherever it goes, cleans the floor, washes the dishes, rubs your back, reminds you of your wife's birthday, does everything we need perfectly and without error and it only costs $5 more than the Dungheap." U: "Ah, the choice is clear, then. We go with the Dungheap MT." S: "WHAT?!" U: "Well, you *did* say it is cheaper, didn't you?" Frequency of appearance: A handful per company, usually. Suggested treatment: Take off and nuke the site from orbit (it's the only way to be sure). The Firm Believer in Trade Magazines - ------------------------------------ May be difficult to tell apart from the Common Idiot, but the differences will be apparent if it ever ends up in a discussion about what sort of equipment to purchase. Typical dialogue: S: "...so you see that the Frotzpock is the natural choice for us." U: "I read a very bad review of the Frotzpock in a trade magazine. The reviewers had great problems opening the box it came in." S: "Well, that won't be a problem for us. I *do* know how to open cardboard boxes." U: "They much preferred the Dungheap 89. That one didn't need any stupid box, it just oozed in under the door." S: "Er, the Dungheap doesn't even do what we need the new machine for." U: "...and DungUser Magazine said that the new version's father only smelled *slightly* of elderberries!" Frequency of appearance: Much too often. Suggested treatment: Kill. The Incessant Talker - -------------------- Appears at the sysadmin's door, starts describing some sort of problem and just never stops. Typical dialogue: U: "Hello I hope I'm not interrupting you I have this problem you see I can't print pictures from Netscape anymore even though I could do that yesterday and the day before and even the day before that but not last Wednesday for some reason I think it may have had something to do with the blackout that day don't you printers don't usually work very well without electricity do they neither do computers for that matter I couldn't log in at all until the power came back I must have tried at least a million times I think well maybe not quite that many but ten thousand at least my keyboard was all worn down so I couldn't see what it said on the keys any more so the day after I went down to Office Supplies to get a new one and they said I couldn't just get one I had to fill in a form first have you heard anything that stupid don't they realise that I'm very important to the company and do a lot of valuable work here without me nothing would get done I tell you and of course I told them in no uncertain terms but they just wouldn't listen to me and kept insisting that I needed that stupid form so in the end I went to get a form but discovered that in order to get the form you had to send a mail to someone and I couldn't send mail since my keyboard didn't work can you believe that eventually after two days I managed to type out the mail using only my nose you can't believe how hard that was it took almost a whole day and after I sent the mail I was told that I didn't really have to send it anyway since our departement has a stack of those forms lying in the tray between the printer and the copying machine so I went over to Bob and asked him hey Bob do you know where we keep the printer and the copying machine and he told me that he thought they were being repaired at the moment so I couldn't use them anyway but I told him that I weren't going to use them I just wanted to know where they were so that I could go here and get..." Frequency of appearance: Much too common. Suggested treatment: Let it be. It's fairly easy to ignore, and as long as it's there no other users can get in. The Fixer - --------- Suffers from the delusion that it is capable of fixing problems by itself, thus turning mishaps into fullblown disasters. Often masquerades as a sysadmin. Typical dialogue: U: "The mailserver was running slowly, so I thought I'd have a look at it. I saw that it was really busy relaying mail, so I thought I'd remove some old processes that nobody used any more. But as soon as I killed this really old process called 'init' the machine crashed!" Frequency of appearance: Much too common. Suggested treatment: Kill. The Drone With The Write-Once Brain - ----------------------------------- A fact once got stuck in its brain. Since then it uses said fact for everything. Typical dialogue: U: "My machine is slow. There is a large process running on my system. Kill it." S: "Um, that's your X server. Do you *really* want me to kill that? And it's not really that big, it's just fake memory." U: "Yes. Kill it." U: "My machine has crashed. There must be a large process running. Kill it." S: "How would I do that if the machine has crashed?" U: "Yes. Kill it." U: "My machine is on fire. There must be a large process running. Kill it." S: "Don't you think it'd be better to call the fire brigade?" U: "Yes. Kill it." Frequency of appearance: Much too common. Suggested treatment: Kill. The User - -------- If you find one of these, consider yourself *very* lucky. Typical dialogue: U: "Excuse me?" S: "Yes?" U: "I have a slight problem. I hope I'm not interrupting you?" S: "Not at all. What's the problem?" U: "It's the BogoGraphics package. I'm trying to use one of the new functions in version three, but I can't get it to work. I've checked that there is enough memory, the permissions on all the files look correct and I installed it exactly according to the instructions in the README file. I do get an error message. It's not very informative, but I wrote it down for you anyway. I tried looking it up in the manual, but it's not there. And the FAQ doesn't say anything about version three yet. Do you think you could have a look at it?" S: "Marry me!" Frequency of appearance: Believed to be mythical. Suggested treatment: Don't let him/her get away! ------- End of Forwarded Message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 19 12:03:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07268 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:03:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07253 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:03:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.41]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA14787 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:04:20 +0500 Message-ID: <3603FE62.E67971B5@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:56:34 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: [XFreeOS2] X11R6.4 licensing problem settled] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A8EB295609F3201F3140CABF" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A8EB295609F3201F3140CABF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received this on the XFree OS/2 list. The free software community is powerful !!!! enjoy, Pedro. --------------A8EB295609F3201F3140CABF Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from mail.gmd.de ([129.26.8.90]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA14743 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:21:11 +0500 Received: from borneo.gmd.de (borneo.gmd.de [129.26.12.20]) by mail.gmd.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02050; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:15:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by borneo.gmd.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18885 for xfreeos2-list; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:15:14 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: borneo.gmd.de: majordomo set sender to owner-xfreeos2@borneo.gmd.de using -f Received: (from veit@localhost) by borneo.gmd.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18878 for xfreeos2@borneo.gmd.de; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:15:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: Holger Veit Message-Id: <199809191815.UAA18878@borneo.gmd.de> Subject: [XFreeOS2] X11R6.4 licensing problem settled To: xfreeos2@borneo.gmd.de Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:15:12 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP3 *ALPHA*] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-xfreeos2@borneo.gmd.de Precedence: bulk Reply-To: xfreeos2@borneo.gmd.de It seems that The Open Group has now finally returned back to the liberal MIT/BSD Copyright for X11R6.4. See http://www.opengroup.org/x/ There is no official statement from The XFree86 Project yet on whether the next version of XFree86 will have support X11R6.4, but since the change of licensing policy by TOG was the main problem, I personally think that a further official fix is in sight. -- Dr.-Ing. Holger Veit | INTERNET: Holger.Veit"at"gmd.de | | / GMD - German National Research | Phone: (+49) 2241 14 2448 |__| / Center for Information Technology| Fax: (+49) 2241 14 2242 | | / Schloss Birlinghoven | Get XFree86/OS2 Bugfix Version | |/ D-53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany | V3.3.2.3 from set.gmd.de WWW: http://borneo.gmd.de/~veit/ | /pub/misc/XFree86OS2/3.3.2 ================================================================= To unsubscribe from the list, please send a mail with the line 'unsubscribe xfreeos2' in the body to 'majordomo@borneo.gmd.de'. ================================================================= --------------A8EB295609F3201F3140CABF-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 19 13:40:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22770 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:40:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22757 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:40:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul1.u.washington.edu (root@saul1.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.10]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id NAA33848; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:39:43 -0700 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id NAA19491; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:39:40 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: [XFreeOS2] X11R6.4 licensing problem settled] In-Reply-To: <3603FE62.E67971B5@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >I received this on the XFree OS/2 list. The free software community is >powerful !!!! Awesome! Thanks for the tip. I have to go check this out. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message