From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Oct 4 04:13:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21964 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21876; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:12:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@FreeBSD.org) From: "David E. O'Brien" Received: (from obrien@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id EAA18411; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810041112.EAA18411@freefall.freebsd.org> To: sjr@home.net, obrien@FreeBSD.ORG, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/7912 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: The cvs.1 man page misstates -v output State-Changed-From-To: open-closed State-Changed-By: obrien State-Changed-When: Sun Oct 4 03:57:26 PDT 1998 State-Changed-Why: commited. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Oct 4 06:00:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05547 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 06:00:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05466 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 06:00:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id GAA19919; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 06:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vedanix.welearn.com.au (vedanix.welearn.com.au [203.35.200.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA05081 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 05:57:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@vedanix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by vedanix.welearn.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA07477; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:00:31 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Message-Id: <199810041300.XAA07477@vedanix.welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:00:31 +1000 (EST) From: Sue Blake Reply-To: sue@vedanix.welearn.com.au To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/8140: sh man page tiny typo Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 8140 >Category: docs >Synopsis: sh man page tiny typo >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sun Oct 4 06:00:01 PDT 1998 >Last-Modified: >Originator: Sue Blake >Organization: >Release: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386 >Environment: >Description: Contains an accidental "the" in "If the an entry for CDPATH..." >How-To-Repeat: RTFM at newbies-pace :-) >Fix: Delete word from the second line of this bit: cd [directory] Switch to the specified directory (default $HOME). If the an en- try for CDPATH appears in the environment of the cd command or the shell variable CDPATH is set and the directory name does not begin with a slash, then the directories listed in CDPATH will be searched for the specified directory. The format of CDPATH is cd [directory] Switch to the specified directory (default $HOME). If an en- try for CDPATH appears in the environment of the cd command or the shell variable CDPATH is set and the directory name does not begin with a slash, then the directories listed in CDPATH will be searched for the specified directory. The format of CDPATH is >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Oct 4 06:40:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10652 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 06:40:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA10638 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 06:40:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id GAA16770; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 06:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dominus.ma.ultranet.com (d109.dial-4.cmb.ma.ultra.net [209.6.67.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA09757 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 06:33:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from moncrg@dominus.ma.ultranet.com) Received: (from moncrg@localhost) by dominus.ma.ultranet.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) id JAA00445; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:32:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from moncrg) Message-Id: <199810041432.JAA00445@dominus.ma.ultranet.com> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:32:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" Reply-To: moncrg.ma.ultranet.com@dominus.ma.ultranet.com To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/8141: missing kernel.congig(5) Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 8141 >Category: docs >Synopsis: missing kernel.congig(5) >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sun Oct 4 06:40:01 PDT 1998 >Last-Modified: >Originator: Gregory D. Moncreaff >Organization: >Release: FreeBSD 3.0-BETA i386 >Environment: >Description: boot(8) refers to several files, including kernel.config, which specifically is missing. I didn't check on the others. I know a new bootstrap is in progress, which may make obsolete this... I however saw reference to this in c.u.b.f.m, and a search on man pages [2.2.7 & 3.0] as well as gnat, FAQ and Handbook didn't show it >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: add this missing man page, or delete the reference in boot(8), whichever is more appropriate >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Oct 4 09:20:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23185 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:20:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23174 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:20:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id JAA28920; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yyy.or.jp (host03.interwave.or.jp [202.214.252.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA22603 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:12:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hnokubi@yyy.or.jp) Received: (qmail 27969 invoked by alias); 5 Oct 1998 01:08:32 +0900 Received: (qmail 27944 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1998 01:08:27 +0900 Received: from urayasu103.interwave.or.jp (HELO ppp-client.yyy.or.jp) (210.138.157.139) by mail.yyy.or.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 1998 01:08:27 +0900 Received: from sassaby.nokubi.or.jp (sassaby.nokubi.or.jp [192.168.9.3]) by ppp-client.yyy.or.jp (8.8.7/3.5Wpl7-ppp) with ESMTP id AAA28893 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:45:31 +0900 (JST) Received: (from h-nokubi@localhost) by sassaby.nokubi.or.jp (8.9.1/3.5Wpl7-glove) id AAA00405; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:39:41 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <19981004160832.27968.qmail@yyy.or.jp> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:39:41 +0900 (JST) From: hnokubi@yyy.or.jp Reply-To: hnokubi@yyy.or.jp To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/8143: strange direction in objcopy.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 8143 >Category: docs >Synopsis: strange direction in objcopy.1 >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sun Oct 4 09:20:00 PDT 1998 >Last-Modified: >Originator: NOKUBI Hirotaka >Organization: >Release: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386 >Environment: FreeBSD sassaby.nokubi.or.jp 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #2: Fri Jul 24 23:42:52 JST 1998 h-nokubi@sassaby.nokubi.or.jp:/usr/local/src/sys/compile/SASSABY i386 >Description: probably conversion miss from texinfo to man. >How-To-Repeat: man objcopy | grep @code >Fix: I also send this fix to bug-gnu-utils@gnu.org. Index: objcopy.1 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/contrib/binutils/binutils/objcopy.1,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.2 diff -u -r1.1.1.2 objcopy.1 --- objcopy.1 1998/09/06 22:56:57 1.1.1.2 +++ objcopy.1 1998/10/04 10:47:35 @@ -253,7 +253,7 @@ remove a leading underscore from all global symbols. This can be useful if you want to link together objects of different file formats with different conventions for symbol names. This is different from -@code{--change-leading-char} because it always changes the symbol name +\fB\-\-change\-leading\-char\fP because it always changes the symbol name when appropriate, regardless of the object file format of the output .TP .B \-\-weaken >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Oct 4 10:50:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01431 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:50:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01423 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:50:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA01245; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yyy.or.jp (host03.interwave.or.jp [202.214.252.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00694 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:45:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hnokubi@yyy.or.jp) Received: (qmail 4304 invoked by alias); 5 Oct 1998 02:41:28 +0900 Received: (qmail 4294 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1998 02:41:25 +0900 Received: from urayasu102.interwave.or.jp (HELO ppp-client.yyy.or.jp) (210.138.157.138) by mail.yyy.or.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 1998 02:41:25 +0900 Received: from sassaby.nokubi.or.jp (sassaby.nokubi.or.jp [192.168.9.3]) by ppp-client.yyy.or.jp (8.8.7/3.5Wpl7-ppp) with ESMTP id CAA29225 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:49:00 +0900 (JST) Received: (from h-nokubi@localhost) by sassaby.nokubi.or.jp (8.9.1/3.5Wpl7-glove) id CAA00950; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:43:09 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <19981004174128.4303.qmail@yyy.or.jp> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:43:09 +0900 (JST) From: hnokubi@yyy.or.jp Reply-To: hnokubi@yyy.or.jp To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/8144: missing directive in objdump.1 ? Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 8144 >Category: docs >Synopsis: missing directive in objdump.1 ? >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sun Oct 4 10:50:01 PDT 1998 >Last-Modified: >Originator: NOKUBI Hirotaka >Organization: >Release: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386 >Environment: FreeBSD sassaby.nokubi.or.jp 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #2: Fri Jul 24 23:42:52 JST 1998 h-nokubi@sassaby.nokubi.or.jp:/usr/local/src/sys/compile/SASSABY i386 >Description: There should be `.B' directive before --syms. >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: I also send this fix to bug-gnu-utils@gnu.org. Index: objdump.1 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/contrib/binutils/binutils/objdump.1,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.2 diff -u -r1.1.1.2 objdump.1 --- objdump.1 1998/09/06 22:56:57 1.1.1.2 +++ objdump.1 1998/10/04 15:54:56 @@ -308,7 +308,8 @@ Solaris 2.0) in which .stab debugging symbol-table entries are carried in an ELF section. In most other file formats, debugging symbol-table entries are interleaved with linkage symbols, and are visible in the -\-\-syms output. +.B \-\-syms +output. .TP .BI "\-\-start\-address=" "address" >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Oct 4 11:10:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04480 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:10:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04448 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:10:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA01837; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02992; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:00:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <199810041800.LAA02992@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:00:29 -0700 (PDT) From: graaf@iae.nl To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0 Subject: docs/8145: In RELNOTES.TXT for 3.0-19981003-BETA replace statitistics with statistics Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 8145 >Category: docs >Synopsis: In RELNOTES.TXT for 3.0-19981003-BETA replace statitistics with statistics >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sun Oct 4 11:10:01 PDT 1998 >Last-Modified: >Originator: Edwin de Graaf >Organization: Internet Access Eindhoven >Release: 3.0-19981003-BETA >Environment: Not installed yet >Description: Just a minor spelling error >How-To-Repeat: Read RELNOTES.TXT >Fix: replace with correct spelling >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Oct 4 12:08:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12596 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:08:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12550; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:07:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@FreeBSD.org) From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA03352; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810041907.MAA03352@freefall.freebsd.org> To: graaf@iae.nl, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/8145 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: In RELNOTES.TXT for 3.0-19981003-BETA replace statitistics with statistics State-Changed-From-To: open-closed State-Changed-By: jkh State-Changed-When: Sun Oct 4 12:07:36 PDT 1998 State-Changed-Why: Fixed, thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Oct 4 18:29:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03509 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:29:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03494 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:29:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (pm02-19.aei.ca [206.123.6.144]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23571 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3618028C.2A257100@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 19:19:40 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: man adduser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org man adduser go to the EXEMPLE they use $ has the shell in the exemple. But you cannot add a user without being root, I guess. -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Oct 4 19:07:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07590 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:07:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07579 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:07:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id TAA29786; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:06:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:06:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Malartre cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: man adduser In-Reply-To: <3618028C.2A257100@aei.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Right.. But as root (or any user for that matter) one can set their prompt to whatever. It does NEED to be # even though it is in MOST cases. If you think it should be # instead of $, then send-pr(1) :) -- Yan I don't have the password .... + Jan Koum But the path is chainlinked .. | Spelled Jan, pronounced Yan. There. So if you've got the time .... | Web: http://www.best.com/~jkb Set the tone to sync ......... + OS: http://www.FreeBSD.org On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Malartre wrote: >man adduser >go to the EXEMPLE >they use $ has the shell in the exemple. But you cannot add a user >without being root, I guess. >-- >[Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Oct 4 19:31:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10578 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:31:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10555 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA02502; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:30:57 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981005123052.42183@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:30:52 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Jan B. Koum " Cc: Malartre , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: man adduser References: <3618028C.2A257100@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Jan B. Koum on Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 07:06:59PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 07:06:59PM -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > Right.. But as root (or any user for that matter) one can set > their prompt to whatever. It does NEED to be # even though it is in MOST > cases. Yet another case of spotlessly correct but bloody useless to the people who need to use it. In its current state it is misleading. > If you think it should be # instead of $, then send-pr(1) :) Yes, please do. Either change it as suggested, or add: NOTE: This command must be executed as root. I don't have to be pure, I just want to know how to work this machine :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Oct 5 12:11:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07372 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:11:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06985; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:10:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@internationalmoneynews.com) From: info@internationalmoneynews.com Received: from falcon-west.bestnet.org ([205.211.8.60]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7/SFU-4.0H) with SMTP id MAA05827; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Free all professionals' IMF and World Bank economic currency trends and industry stability reports. Educated assessments and reporting is provided in 5 languages. Our international Due Diligence is dedicated to supplementing your superior analytical skills in all linguistic backgrounds. Our reader suggestion provision for professional research needs and ideas provides a unique oppurtunity to get the information you need. Our subjects include foreign and domestic business awareness "GROWING TO THE NEXT LEVEL" of Global Dominance. For a preview of our service, please visit http://www.internationalmoneynews.com If you are not interested in viewing our free service, thank-you for your kind indulgence! Please send a blank reply to this email and we will immediately remove you from our database. Sincerely, International Money News To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Oct 5 15:10:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12625 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:10:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12515 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:09:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA06353; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:07:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from karpen) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199810052207.AAA06353@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: How do I search the site? In-Reply-To: <19981004161105.19847@welearn.com.au> from Sue Blake at "Oct 4, 98 04:11:05 pm" To: sue@welearn.com.au (Sue Blake) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:07:23 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Sue Blake: > On Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 10:01:56PM -0700, Daemeon Reiydelle wrote: > > Daemeon is a half-blind dingbat. As soon as I returned to the site and > > began poking around I was greatly embarrased to find "Search" on the > > yellow bar. Please ignore the question below. > > Hehe, you're not the first to miss it. Right up top, bright yellow, > why don't people see it? Some visual perception thing perhaps. > Thanks for coming back to let us know. > > While the experience is fresh in your mind, do you have any idea > why this happens? Is there some way it could be made clearer? A good guess would be that "the buttons" blend into the background as a design thing. They are not clearly marked as pressable or links at all. Looks like a horizontal bar to underline the FreeBSD daemon. A "menu" to the left (by making more "newsflash"-buttons under the current one, and putting the items there) like most places seem to have (done with a frame). It's very quick to catch up on, and would make things clearer, I think. Adding two directlinks to that many would also be nice: "CVS repository" and "mailing lists". IMHO... /Mikael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Oct 5 19:06:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02611 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:06:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02511 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:06:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA06308 for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:05:55 +1000 (EST) Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.50]) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA03064 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:50:53 +1000 (EST) Received: from Anthros.Com ([207.181.233.250]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA28737 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:50:36 -0700 Received: from anthros.com by Anthros.Com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA03932; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:50:14 -0700 Message-ID: <36185E26.30ADBB6C@anthros.com> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 22:50:30 -0700 From: Daemeon Reiydelle Organization: Anthropomorphics Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake Subject: Re: How do I search the site? References: <3616FBBD.3FAB59D9@anthros.com> <36170144.1DADA0D6@anthros.com> <19981004161105.19847@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please understand that the "visual perception thing" is not looking carefully. I don't mean with a magnifying glass, I mean I was careless. If your question was: "how could we make it obvious", then that answer is clearer from some ergonometric stuff I did at HP for a site I did there (which only makes my missing the obvious even worse!). People tend to focus on differentiated groupings on the screen: e.g. sectioned off or "focus areas" (I swear I didn't make this up) to the upper left or (and you got it right here) across the upper part of the screen. By the same token, a non-differentiated navigation bar doesn't "catch your eye" in this web-world full of eye candy. Your solid yellow bar with a string of non-differentiated words doesn't reach out and shoute SEARCH INDEX HOME. I did see "application support documentation" (before I sent you my dumb email) and, because "Application Support Documentation" is a single topic to me, I failed to read the rest of the heading. Incidentally, there appears to be a mistake in the "simple" firewall config in /etc/rc.firewall for dns queries. Do you have any idea to whom I should mention this? Sue Blake wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 10:01:56PM -0700, Daemeon Reiydelle wrote: > > Daemeon is a half-blind dingbat. As soon as I returned to the site and > > began poking around I was greatly embarrased to find "Search" on the > > yellow bar. Please ignore the question below. > > Hehe, you're not the first to miss it. Right up top, bright yellow, > why don't people see it? Some visual perception thing perhaps. > Thanks for coming back to let us know. > > While the experience is fresh in your mind, do you have any idea > why this happens? Is there some way it could be made clearer? > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- -- Daemeon Reiydelle Systems Engineer, Anthropomorphics Inc. v - 510-524-0310 f - 510-451-0118 daemeonr@anthros.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Oct 5 22:12:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04733 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:12:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04726 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:12:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA07148 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:12:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id HAA10465; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:12:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:12:38 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Dos and Don'ts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I sat down and wrote up a small list of these, for new users. I hope to include this as part of the FOO.TXT files (if there is space available - I'm not sure if they go on the boot floppy), or at least somewhere easily visible. Here it is, at least - I'm sure there are more that can be added, so please fire away! (The routed entry is already contributed by gz@EFnet). Dos and Don'ts of FreeBSD ------------------------- DON'T run pppd unless you either (a) already have a working setup, or (b) absolutely need the 2% reduction of CPU usage it will give you. DON'T run natd with pppd unless you already have the combo working. If it is not up and working, you want to run 'ppp -alias', _even if you already have a working pppd_. There is no excuse WRT CPU usage here, either. DON'T DO IT. DO use 'dangerously dedicated' mode if you're only going to have FreeBSD on the machine. There are a number of problems that can occur with DOS slices; the FreeBSD disklabel is immune to this. (Don't need to change if your system is already working, however.) DON'T run routed unless you know what dynamic routes are and why you need them. DON'T expect to get help on IRC, and don't attempt to demand it. #freebsd is a cesspool; the people you see there are not representative of the FreeBSD community (and I can say this with immunity, as I'm one of them :-) DON'T send questions to anything but questions@freebsd.org, except: * Multimedia questions (TV-cards, sound cards, qcam, and similar) can go to multimedia@freebsd.org. * Questions directly related to the FreeBSD code (ie, not functionality) can be sent to hackers@freebsd.org * Questions about ISDN can be sent to isdn@freebsd.org DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted above) to any mailing list you are not a member of and have read for at least two days. DON'T send questions about network setup to net@freebsd.org. DON'T send questions before having searched the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html DON'T send patches except through send-pr. Patches sent to mailing lists directly are likely to not be processed :-( DO send patches :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Oct 5 23:24:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14854 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14847 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:24:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA21550; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:54:01 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id PAA02162; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:53:41 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:53:41 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Eivind Eklund , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 07:12:38AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 6 October 1998 at 7:12:38 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > I sat down and wrote up a small list of these, for new users. I hope > to include this as part of the FOO.TXT files (if there is space > available - I'm not sure if they go on the boot floppy), or at least > somewhere easily visible. > > Here it is, at least - I'm sure there are more that can be added, so > please fire away! (The routed entry is already contributed by > gz@EFnet). > > > Dos and Don'ts of FreeBSD > ------------------------- > > DON'T run pppd unless you either > (a) already have a working setup, or > (b) absolutely need the 2% reduction of CPU usage it will give > you. Why this? With all respect for Brian, I've found pppd to be more reliable. > DON'T run routed unless you know what dynamic routes are and why you > need them. Yes! > DON'T send questions to anything but questions@freebsd.org, except: > * Multimedia questions (TV-cards, sound cards, qcam, and > similar) can go to multimedia@freebsd.org. > * Questions directly related to the FreeBSD code (ie, not > functionality) can be sent to hackers@freebsd.org > * Questions about ISDN can be sent to isdn@freebsd.org Questions from newbies can go to -newbies if they meet Aunty Sue's criteria. > DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted > above) to any mailing list you are not a member of and have > read for at least two days. This sounds funny, like you want them to be a member and not have read it for two days. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Oct 5 23:39:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16049 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:39:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16038 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:39:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA07882; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:38:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id IAA10758; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:38:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:38:09 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Greg Lehey , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 03:53:41PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 03:53:41PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 6 October 1998 at 7:12:38 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > Dos and Don'ts of FreeBSD > > ------------------------- > > > > DON'T run pppd unless you either > > (a) already have a working setup, or > > (b) absolutely need the 2% reduction of CPU usage it will give > > you. > > Why this? With all respect for Brian, I've found pppd to be more > reliable. Because it often lead to a large amount of pain (in setup), especially when somebody get the idea that they want to use NAT. In the cases where there are problems with iij-ppp, my impression is it usually get fixed pretty quickly (personally, I've never had a problem except when I've been hacking the code myself, so I can't give more than a second-hand impression). > > DON'T send questions to anything but questions@freebsd.org, except: > > * Multimedia questions (TV-cards, sound cards, qcam, and > > similar) can go to multimedia@freebsd.org. > > * Questions directly related to the FreeBSD code (ie, not > > functionality) can be sent to hackers@freebsd.org > > * Questions about ISDN can be sent to isdn@freebsd.org > > Questions from newbies can go to -newbies if they meet Aunty Sue's > criteria. Then Aunty Sue had better come up with a suitable description ;-) > > DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted > > above) to any mailing list you are not a member of and have > > read for at least two days. > > This sounds funny, like you want them to be a member and not have read > it for two days. Is this better? DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted above) to any mailing list you have not read at least two days of traffic from. Yes, this implies you should be or have been a member. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 00:34:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22898 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:34:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22861 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:34:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA07615; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:34:23 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:34:17 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Eivind Eklund Cc: Greg Lehey , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19981006083809.00946@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 08:38:09AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 08:38:09AM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 03:53:41PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Tuesday, 6 October 1998 at 7:12:38 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > Dos and Don'ts of FreeBSD > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > DON'T run pppd unless you either > > > (a) already have a working setup, or > > > (b) absolutely need the 2% reduction of CPU usage it will give > > > you. > > > > Why this? With all respect for Brian, I've found pppd to be more > > reliable. > > Because it often lead to a large amount of pain (in setup), especially > when somebody get the idea that they want to use NAT. In the cases > where there are problems with iij-ppp, my impression is it usually get > fixed pretty quickly (personally, I've never had a problem except when > I've been hacking the code myself, so I can't give more than a > second-hand impression). In my experience, if newbies can mislead themselves they will, and advice without a reason causes reasons to be guessed. Why not just say that most people prefer not to use the kernel ppp? Of course, you'll have to tell them that there are two kinds first, otherwise it will confuse. Or easier, just forget it. ppp is covered in the Handbook and lots of places. > > > DON'T send questions to anything but questions@freebsd.org, except: The two styles of addresses, questions@ and freebsd-questions@ seem like they go to two different places. I prefer to always stick to the full name for consistency. It makes (un)subscribing work a lot better too. > > > * Multimedia questions (TV-cards, sound cards, qcam, and > > > similar) can go to multimedia@freebsd.org. > > > * Questions directly related to the FreeBSD code (ie, not > > > functionality) can be sent to hackers@freebsd.org > > > * Questions about ISDN can be sent to isdn@freebsd.org > > > > Questions from newbies can go to -newbies if they meet Aunty Sue's > > criteria. > > Then Aunty Sue had better come up with a suitable description ;-) Sheesh, you would pick a time when most of a day's mail is stuck in the spool to start taking my auntyhood in vain :-) Studded got it right the first time. Freebsd-newbies does not cover anything that is already covered by another list. It does have a charter, plus two supporting web pages in case that's not enough. There are already two lists where newbies can ask questions: freebsd-questions plus an external group. Freebsd-newbies doesn't do much at all except handle any nonsense that the other FreeBSD lists won't tolerate, and redirect sorted-out people back to where they would have gone had they known how. I'm surprised that list charters don't get a pointer. We have had incidents where understanding the top of the list charters page was critical, but few knew it was there. > > > DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted > > > above) to any mailing list you are not a member of and have > > > read for at least two days. > > > > This sounds funny, like you want them to be a member and not have read > > it for two days. > > Is this better? > > DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted > above) to any mailing list you have not read at least two days > of traffic from. Yes, this implies you should be or have been > a member. Again, a newcomer would be puzzled by this. It's hard to see the reason. Perhaps it's some strict rule? Do I have to read -multimedia for two days before I can ask about my TV card before deciding whether to install FreeBSD? Again, they deserve an explanation or a reason. I'd suggest scrapping this one and replacing it with advice to search the archives first (with URL#) and a reason. This sounds like a good idea, worthy of getting 100% right. Just my 2c worth here, maybe out of context as 1500 meandering emails start to find their true home. Hey, maybe add: DON'T try to run your mail server with 8 megs RAM and 16 megs swap :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 01:31:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA02407 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:31:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA02396 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:31:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id BAA28468; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810060831.BAA28468@mailgate.cadence.com> Received: from symnt3.cadence.com(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma907662667.028461; Tue, 6 Oct 98 01:31:07 -0700 Received: from pc287-cam.cadence.com (d194032096136.Cadence.COM [194.32.96.136]) by symnt3.Cadence.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id Q4J1B6NM; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:31:25 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG, Eivind Eklund Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:30:44 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts Reply-to: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk In-reply-to: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I sat down and wrote up a small list of these, for new users. I > hope to include this as part of the FOO.TXT files (if there is space > available - I'm not sure if they go on the boot floppy), or at least > somewhere easily visible. A few suggestions: DO use RCS for storing configuration files in /etc once your machine is set up or write it down in a note book. Otherwise, you will forget the majic one line change in /etc/. Many configuration files in /etc include .local so use it. Contentious ;-) DONT use sendmail, use exim. Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 02:48:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA13004 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:48:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12949 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:48:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA22209; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:18:17 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id TAA02619; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:18:16 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981006191816.S27781@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:18:16 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <199810060831.BAA28468@mailgate.cadence.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810060831.BAA28468@mailgate.cadence.com>; from Duncan Barclay on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 09:30:44AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 6 October 1998 at 9:30:44 +0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > Contentious ;-) > DONT use sendmail, use exim. Indeed. Better: Use sendmail, the One True MTA. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 05:00:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA03725 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 05:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from donald.wipinfo.soft.net ([164.164.67.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA03700 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 05:00:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbasu@wipinfo.soft.net) Received: from apollo.wipinfo.soft.net by donald.wipinfo.soft.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA13752; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:33:39 -0500 Received: from kbasu.wipinfo.soft.net by apollo.wipinfo.soft.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA29643; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:06:26 -0500 Message-ID: <36195DAF.14E0@wipinfo.soft.net> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 05:30:47 +0530 From: Basavaraj Khuba Reply-To: kbasu@wipinfo.soft.net Organization: WIPRO Technology Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: (no subject) Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 07:51:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00437 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mxext.losangeles.af.mil (mxext.losangeles.af.mil [138.13.244.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA00428 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ketung.hsiao@losangeles.af.mil) Received: from mxint.losangeles.af.mil (mxint.losangeles.af.mil [138.13.236.63]) by mxext.losangeles.af.mil (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA07491 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fsnsab10.losangeles.af.mil (fsnsab10.losangeles.af.mil [138.13.28.19]) by mxint.losangeles.af.mil (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA23408 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from system29-119.losangeles.af.mil by fsnsab10.losangeles.af.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8) id TSP3QVZX; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:51:20 -0700 Message-ID: <361A2DC2.85F83EAF@losangeles.af.mil> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 07:48:34 -0700 From: Ketung hsiao X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: UseNEt from Window NT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear Sir/Ms, I am a Window NT person learing Unix using FreeBSD. Please advise how to get to UserGroup : comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc from Netscape Communicator on Microsoft NT platform. I have downloaded perl5.005_002.tar.gz and am trying to unzip it. Thanks a lot. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 07:53:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00808 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:53:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA00801 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21971; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:53:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA12317; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:53:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981006165337.63858@follo.net> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:53:37 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <199810060831.BAA28468@mailgate.cadence.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199810060831.BAA28468@mailgate.cadence.com>; from Duncan Barclay on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 09:30:44AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 09:30:44AM +0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > I sat down and wrote up a small list of these, for new users. I > > hope to include this as part of the FOO.TXT files (if there is space > > available - I'm not sure if they go on the boot floppy), or at least > > somewhere easily visible. > > A few suggestions: > > DO use RCS for storing configuration files in /etc once your machine > is set up or write it down in a note book. Otherwise, you will forget > the majic one line change in /etc/. Many > configuration files in /etc include .local so use it. RCS might be a bit hard on the beginner; I moved it later and split this into two points. Do the following look OK? DO keep a notebook of which configuration changes you do as you first set up the machine; you _will_ find it useful. At some point, you may want to look at 'man rcsintro' for details of how you can have the machine remember it for you. DO separate out changes in /etc/.local whereever this applies - it will make updates much easier. The use of 'man rcsintro' instead of rcsintro(1) is intentional - I don't think we can expect beginners to understand the name(section) syntax. > Contentious ;-) > DONT use sendmail, use exim. Hmm, I don't think I'll include this in any official docs from the project ;-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 08:29:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06630 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:29:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06623 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:29:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id IAA24824; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810061529.IAA24824@mailgate.cadence.com> Received: from symnt3.cadence.com(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma907687783.024736; Tue, 6 Oct 98 08:29:44 -0700 Received: from pc287-cam.cadence.com (d194032096136.Cadence.COM [194.32.96.136]) by symnt3.Cadence.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id Q4J1B7J1; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:29:54 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG, Eivind Eklund Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:29:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts Reply-to: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk In-reply-to: <19981006165337.63858@follo.net> References: <199810060831.BAA28468@mailgate.cadence.com>; from Duncan Barclay on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 09:30:44AM +0000 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 09:30:44AM +0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > > I sat down and wrote up a small list of these, for new users. I > > A few suggestions: > > > > DO use RCS for storing configuration files in /etc once your machine > > is set up or write it down in a note book. Otherwise, you will forget > > the majic one line change in /etc/. Many > > configuration files in /etc include .local so use it. > > RCS might be a bit hard on the beginner; I moved it later and split > this into two points. Do the following look OK? > > DO keep a notebook of which configuration changes you do as you > first > set up the machine; you _will_ find it useful. At some point, > you may want to look at 'man rcsintro' for details of how you > can have the machine remember it for you. > > DO separate out changes in /etc/.local whereever this > applies - it will make updates much easier. > > The use of 'man rcsintro' instead of rcsintro(1) is intentional - I > don't think we can expect beginners to understand the name(section) > syntax. Looks fine. Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 08:31:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07016 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:31:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA06995 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:31:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ananta@dial.pipex.com) Received: (qmail 14005 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1998 15:31:00 -0000 Received: from userm600.uk.uudial.com (HELO ananta) (193.149.79.142) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 1998 15:31:00 -0000 Message-ID: <361A368F.59D9@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 16:26:07 +0100 From: Ananta X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: extended partitions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi folks I can't see the logical parts of my extended partition, so how can I solve that I have a maxtor 4.3 drive partitioned into 5 parts, I want to put the system on "G", but in the fdisk menu I only see wds01 type fat wds02 type extended but nothing more, I have an Cyrix PR200 processor, and award BIOS any help please thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 08:40:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08878 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:40:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA08855 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:40:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ananta@dial.pipex.com) Received: (qmail 17606 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1998 15:40:24 -0000 Received: from userm600.uk.uudial.com (HELO ananta) (193.149.79.142) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 1998 15:40:24 -0000 Message-ID: <361A38C1.1F74@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 16:35:29 +0100 From: Ananta X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: How do I Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear Sirs You showed some books on your web site, but how do I order any, or do you have a distributor in the UK Thanks Ananta To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 08:43:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09710 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:43:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09695 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:43:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA22721; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:43:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA12479; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:43:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:43:28 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Sue Blake Cc: Greg Lehey , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 05:34:17PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 05:34:17PM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 08:38:09AM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: [On using pppd instead of /usr/sbin/ppp] > > Because it often lead to a large amount of pain (in setup), especially > > when somebody get the idea that they want to use NAT. In the cases > > where there are problems with iij-ppp, my impression is it usually get > > fixed pretty quickly (personally, I've never had a problem except when > > I've been hacking the code myself, so I can't give more than a > > second-hand impression). > > In my experience, if newbies can mislead themselves they will, and > advice without a reason causes reasons to be guessed. Why not just say > that most people prefer not to use the kernel ppp? Of course, you'll > have to tell them that there are two kinds first, otherwise it will > confuse. Does the following look better? DON'T run pppd (as opposed to /usr/sbin/ppp) unless you either (a) already have a working setup, or (b) absolutely need the 2% reduction of CPU usage it will give you. Running the kernel PPP will not buy you much, it is harder to setup, it is less maintained, it has fewer features, and it will give you much more problems if you later find out you want to put your local network online through PPP (the natd comment below) DON'T run natd with pppd unless you already have the combo working. If it is not up and working, you want to run 'ppp -alias', _even if you already have a working pppd_. There is no excuse WRT CPU usage here, either. DON'T DO IT. (You'll just get a headache - and asking people about how to run natd with pppd is NOT appreciated.) > Or easier, just forget it. ppp is covered in the Handbook and lots > of places. ... and I still get about 5 questions a day about using natd with pppd, which seems to indicate it is not covered well enough. > > > > DON'T send questions to anything but questions@freebsd.org, except: > > The two styles of addresses, questions@ and freebsd-questions@ seem > like they go to two different places. I prefer to always stick to the > full name for consistency. It makes (un)subscribing work a lot better > too. Changed (though I'm slightly sceptical - most references elsewhere are without the freebsd- prefix, which means it may become even more confusing if we use it just here). > > > > * Multimedia questions (TV-cards, sound cards, qcam, and > > > > similar) can go to multimedia@freebsd.org. > > > > * Questions directly related to the FreeBSD code (ie, not > > > > functionality) can be sent to hackers@freebsd.org > > > > * Questions about ISDN can be sent to isdn@freebsd.org > > > > > > Questions from newbies can go to -newbies if they meet Aunty Sue's > > > criteria. > > > > Then Aunty Sue had better come up with a suitable description ;-) > > Sheesh, you would pick a time when most of a day's mail is stuck in the > spool to start taking my auntyhood in vain :-) Studded got it right the > first time. What has Studded got to do with this? > Freebsd-newbies does not cover anything that is already > covered by another list. It does have a charter, plus two supporting > web pages in case that's not enough. OK, no reference to freebsd-newbies. Or do you think a DO mail freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org if you're confused about everything with respect to FreeBSD. would be a good thing? > I'm surprised that list charters don't get a pointer. We have had > incidents where understanding the top of the list charters page was > critical, but few knew it was there. Added. > > > > DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted > > > > above) to any mailing list you are not a member of and have > > > > read for at least two days. > > > > > > This sounds funny, like you want them to be a member and not have read > > > it for two days. > > > > Is this better? > > > > DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted > > above) to any mailing list you have not read at least two days > > of traffic from. Yes, this implies you should be or have been > > a member. > > Again, a newcomer would be puzzled by this. It's hard to see the > reason. Perhaps it's some strict rule? Do I have to read -multimedia > for two days before I can ask about my TV card before deciding whether > to install FreeBSD? Again, they deserve an explanation or a reason. > I'd suggest scrapping this one and replacing it with advice to search > the archives first (with URL#) and a reason. The reference to 'with the exceptions noted above' were obviously not clear enough. How about the below? > Hey, maybe add: > DON'T try to run your mail server with 8 megs RAM and 16 megs swap :-) I rephrased this a little. Full text w/all changes to date included below. Dos and Don'ts of FreeBSD ------------------------- DON'T run pppd (as opposed to /usr/sbin/ppp) unless you either (a) already have a working setup, or (b) absolutely need the 2% reduction of CPU usage it will give you. Running the kernel PPP will not buy you much, it is harder to setup, it is less maintained, it has fewer features, and it will give you much more problems if you later find out you want to put your local network online through PPP (the natd comment below) DON'T run natd with pppd unless you already have the combo working. If it is not up and working, you want to run 'ppp -alias', _even if you already have a working pppd_. There is no excuse WRT CPU usage here, either. DON'T DO IT. (You'll just get a headache - and asking people about how to run natd with pppd is NOT appreciated.) DO use 'dangerously dedicated' mode if you're only going to have FreeBSD on the machine. There are a number of problems that can occur with DOS slices; the FreeBSD disklabel is immune to this. (Don't need to change if your system is already working, however.) DON'T run routed unless you know what dynamic routes are and why you need them. DO keep a notebook of which configuration changes you do as you first set up the machine; you _will_ find it useful. At some point, you may want to look at 'man rcsintro' for details of how you can have the machine remember it for you. DO separate out changes in /etc/.local whereever this applies - it will make updates much easier. DON'T expect to get help on IRC, and don't attempt to demand it. #freebsd is a cesspool; the people you see there are not representative of the FreeBSD community (and I can say this with immunity, as I'm one of them :-) DON'T expect FreeBSD to work miracles - running a busy mailserver on a 386 with 8MB RAM and 16MB swap will not work. DON'T send questions to anything but freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, except: * Multimedia questions (TV-cards, sound cards, qcam, and similar) can go to freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org. * Questions directly related to the FreeBSD code (ie, not functionality) can be sent to freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org * Questions about ISDN can be sent to freebsd-isdn@freebsd.org * Questions about FreeBSD Security should go to freebsd-security@freebsd.org DON'T send mail to any other mailing FreeBSD list than the above (and freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org) before you have read the mailing list you're thinking of mailing for at least a couple of days. Which types of mail that is OK for which list varies a lot, and it take a little while to pick up the 'culture' (even if you've read the charters). DON'T send questions about network setup to net@freebsd.org. DON'T send a question before having searched the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html DON'T send mail to any mailing list before you've read http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources:charters.html or the same section in the handbook you downloaded (if you downloaded the handbook). DON'T send patches except through send-pr. Patches sent to mailing lists directly are likely to get lost - they pass by too quickly :-( DO send patches :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 09:43:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23544 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:43:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23537 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:43:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17278; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:43:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <361A48B7.FCCF0085@dal.net> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:43:35 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-0929 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > Sheesh, you would pick a time when most of a day's mail is stuck in the > spool to start taking my auntyhood in vain :-) Studded got it right the > first time. Please don't associate my name with approval as to how you are handling the new users' list. I disagree with you on a fairly basic level as to how you're handling that list, and have stated so publicly. Thanks, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 10:30:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00512 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:30:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00429 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:30:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA12433; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de (blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29364 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de) Received: (from root@localhost) by blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA14936; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:21:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kuku) Message-Id: <199810061721.TAA14936@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:21:02 +0200 (CEST) From: kuku@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: kuku@FreeBSD.ORG To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/8170: wrong URL in CVSup README Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 8170 >Category: docs >Synopsis: wrong: pkg_add -f ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/CVSup/cvsupit.tgz >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Tue Oct 6 10:30:00 PDT 1998 >Last-Modified: >Originator: Christoph P. Kukulies >Organization: >Release: FreeBSD 3.0-19981004-BETA i386 >Environment: cvsup client >Description: the README in /pub/FreeBSD/CVSup contains a wrong URL >How-To-Repeat: try to execute the command pkg_add -f ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/CVSup/cvsupit.tgz >Fix: Change README: pkg_add -f ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/CVSup/cvsupit.tgz >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 10:37:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02095 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:37:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02074 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id DAA09216; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 03:37:19 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981007033712.15333@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 03:37:12 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Studded Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <361A48B7.FCCF0085@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <361A48B7.FCCF0085@dal.net>; from Studded on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 09:43:35AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 09:43:35AM -0700, Studded wrote: > Sue Blake wrote: > > > Sheesh, you would pick a time when most of a day's mail is stuck in the > > spool to start taking my auntyhood in vain :-) Studded got it right the > > first time. > > Please don't associate my name with approval as to how you are handling > the new users' list. I disagree with you on a fairly basic level as to > how you're handling that list, and have stated so publicly. Sorry. For those who are interested, the first mail that arrived in this thread was out of sequence and I misread who said what. In my fluster I also forgot how reluctant you are to receive normal friendly communication from me. It was an unforgivable error due to my own stupidity which I hope will not happen again. I withdraw from this thread. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 11:20:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09755 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:20:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from math.uwaterloo.ca (math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09723 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:20:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hbauschk@math.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from hbauschk@localhost) by math.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19504; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:20:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Heinz Bauschke Message-Id: <199810061820.OAA19504@math.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: possible contribution to handbook To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:20:06 -0400 (EDT) Cc: sgkruk@mercator.math.uwaterloo.ca (Serge G. Kruk), bauschke@cecm.sfu.ca (Heinz Bauschke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org TITLE: How to Install Maple on FreeBSD LOCATION: should go as 23.3 in the Linux Emulation Section. CONTRIBUTED BY: Heinz Bauschke (bauschke@cecm.sfu.ca) and Serge Kruk (sgkruk@acm.org) We describe how to set up Maple for FreeBSD in eight easy steps. We tried this procudere for Maple V Release 5 on CD Rom for Linux for FreeBSD 2.2.6 and 2.2.7. Step 1: In your /etc/rc.conf file, you must have linux_enable="YES". Step 2: Add the linux_lib (either as port or as package) (Please add a pointer to "Linux Emulation".) Step 3: Mount the CD Rom: mount -t cd9660 /dev/wcd0c /cdrom Step 4: mkdir /usr/local maple Step 5: /cdrom/INSTALL Step 6: In the file /usr/local/maple/bin/maple.system.type, locate the part "Linux") MAPLE_BIN+"bin_IBM_INTEL_LINUX" ;; Step 7: Change "Linux") to "Linux|FreeBSD") Step 8: Start Maple by /usr/local/maple/bin/maple and enjoy! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 11:34:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13176 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13168 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:34:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id LAA27950; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:34:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:34:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Eivind Eklund cc: Sue Blake , Greg Lehey , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts In-Reply-To: <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Since this won't be in /etc/motd how do you plan to make sure new users read this? How about this would be sent as a mail to root and /etc/motd would say "issue command mail" or some such? -- Yan I don't have the password .... + Jan Koum But the path is chainlinked .. | Spelled Jan, pronounced Yan. There. So if you've got the time .... | Web: http://www.best.com/~jkb Set the tone to sync ......... + OS: http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 12:02:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19658 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:02:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA19610 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:01:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Received: from plutotech.com (tampopo.plutotech.com [206.168.67.161]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21564; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:01:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <361A6908.D4200B63@plutotech.com> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 13:01:28 -0600 From: Sean Kelly Organization: Pluto Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jim Dutton CC: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New Handbook section suggestion: Advanced Printing - Print Server References: <199809042245.RAA24130@dutton3.it.siu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jim Dutton wrote: > It would be in a new section that explicitly states "print server" and > would (eventually) refer to all of the other pertinent sections. Whew! I'm finally getting around to reviewing this! (It's been a *terrible* month.) Feel free to heed or ignore as much of this as you wish: The introductory paragraph is pretty good. I think I'd add an additional paragraph or two with headings that answer direct questions so the reader can know right away if s/he needs to delve any further, plus a paragraph giving an outline of what's to follow is nice: Introduction Do I Need a Print Server? What's In This Chapter Next, you might want to create a new section that separates out installation issues (how much disk space to allocate) from the print server proper issues (how to set up /etc/printcap). For example, your headings might go: Disk Space Considerations Location of the Print Server On a FreeBSD host In a LPD-capable network printer ... Print Server Deployment Store-and-forward ... Filtering ... Examples ... The rest of the body text is nicely explanatory. I wouldn't change a thing except to change passive to active voice (replace "a2ps was used to convert..." to "Here, we use a2ps to convert the ...") In the example section, I particulary liked the diagrams that show the flow of the print job from user workstation eventually to printer---a nice touch. It shows a novice user what's going on, but also lets an advanced user say, "There's the configuration I want, so I'll just modify this example." Good stuff. Are you ready to create an SGML version of this text? Take care. --Sean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 12:11:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22380 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22368 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:11:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Received: from plutotech.com (tampopo.plutotech.com [206.168.67.161]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22788; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <361A6B46.73B4851@plutotech.com> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 13:11:02 -0600 From: Sean Kelly Organization: Pluto Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund CC: Sue Blake , Greg Lehey , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund wrote: > Does the following look better? > > DON'T run pppd (as opposed to /usr/sbin/ppp) unless you either > (a) already have a working setup, or > (b) absolutely need the 2% reduction of CPU usage it will give > you. > Running the kernel PPP will not buy you much, it is harder to > setup, it is less maintained, it has fewer features, and it > will give you much more problems if you later find out you > want to put your local network online through PPP (the natd comment > below) Much better, yes! An initiate in the strange world that is FreeBSD can read the one-to-two sentences of advice and follow them without question; while the journeyman (journeyperson?) can read the reasoning why and be educated. I like to think I'm beyond the journeyman stage, but I found myself becoming suspicious of the dos and don'ts without their matching explanations. Some other observations: * Many of the dos and don'ts have a common theme that if it's already working then don't worry. How about we just factor that out into the common maxim: "If it isn't broken, don't fix it," and stick it up at the top. * "man rcsintro" ... having the machine track things is great, but sometimes the paper record kept on the shelf is more durable than a failed upgrade or other catastrophe. * "/etc/.local" ... maybe we could explicitly list all the config files that support this, to assist the newbies who wouldn't know how to determine this otherwise. Take care. --Sean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 12:32:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25990 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:32:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA25983 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cool_herk@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19981006193115.29430.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.168.62.243] by send102.yahoomail.com; Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:31:15 PDT Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:31:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Herk Cool To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am trying to get the manual for FreeBSD 2.1.5. How do I upgrade to new version. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 12:33:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26140 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:33:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26133; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@FreeBSD.org) From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA16466; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810061933.MAA16466@freefall.freebsd.org> To: kuku@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/8170 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: wrong: pkg_add -f ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/CVSup/cvsupit.tgz State-Changed-From-To: open-closed State-Changed-By: jkh State-Changed-When: Tue Oct 6 12:33:25 PDT 1998 State-Changed-Why: Fixed, thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 13:07:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04065 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:07:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04041 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:07:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19012; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:07:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19981006150708.32072@futuresouth.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:07:08 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Eivind Eklund Cc: Sue Blake , Greg Lehey , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19981006174328.65315@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 05:43:28PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 05:43:28PM +0200, Eivind Eklund woke me up to tell me: > DO use 'dangerously dedicated' mode if you're only going to have > FreeBSD on the machine. There are a number of problems that > can occur with DOS slices; the FreeBSD disklabel is immune to > this. (Don't need to change if your system is already > working, however.) I'm not sure if that's a good idea. Notably with those lovely Providence dual PPro motherboards (tho I'm sure elsewhere too), the SCSI controller wouldn't boot a dangerously dedicated partition. I guess it really did need a fdisk table, or something. I've never had any problems with DOS slices; what were you referring to? *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 13:48:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14925 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:48:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14846 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:48:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA26600; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:48:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA13827; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:48:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981006224813.54674@follo.net> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:48:13 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Heinz Bauschke , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: "Serge G. Kruk" , Heinz Bauschke Subject: Re: possible contribution to handbook References: <199810061820.OAA19504@math.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199810061820.OAA19504@math.uwaterloo.ca>; from Heinz Bauschke on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 02:20:06PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 02:20:06PM -0400, Heinz Bauschke wrote: > > TITLE: How to Install Maple on FreeBSD > > LOCATION: should go as 23.3 in the Linux Emulation Section. > > CONTRIBUTED BY: Heinz Bauschke (bauschke@cecm.sfu.ca) and > Serge Kruk (sgkruk@acm.org) > > We describe how to set up Maple for FreeBSD in eight easy steps. > We tried this procudere for Maple V Release 5 on CD Rom for > Linux for FreeBSD 2.2.6 and 2.2.7. I would suggest making a non-packagable port of Maple. This would take care of all the steps, and make it easy to both install and de-install. This is somewhat more work than just putting it in the handbook, but would IMO be a better way of integrating it. Is this a feasible project for you? Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 16:12:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23666 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:12:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23561 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:12:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24091; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:12:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <361AA3D1.B0226CF3@dal.net> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 16:12:17 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-0929 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sean Kelly CC: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> <361A6B46.73B4851@plutotech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sean Kelly wrote: > I like to think I'm beyond the journeyman stage, but I found myself > becoming suspicious of the dos and don'ts without their matching > explanations. I would like to see pointers to more detailed information as well. A lot of people will do things JUST because you tell them not to. > * "man rcsintro" ... having the machine track things is great, but > sometimes the paper record kept on the shelf is more durable than a > failed upgrade or other catastrophe. True, however using RCS and keeping reliable backups is something that should be learned very soon. Maybe not right out of the box, but it should be way up on the list. I agree that keeping a written record is a good idea as well though, I still do this. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 16:22:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25769 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:22:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25699 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA27975; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:22:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA13551; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:22:01 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981007012201.49887@follo.net> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:22:01 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> <19981006150708.32072@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981006150708.32072@futuresouth.com>; from Matthew D. Fuller on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 03:07:08PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 03:07:08PM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 05:43:28PM +0200, Eivind Eklund woke me up to tell me: > > DO use 'dangerously dedicated' mode if you're only going to have > > FreeBSD on the machine. There are a number of problems that > > can occur with DOS slices; the FreeBSD disklabel is immune to > > this. (Don't need to change if your system is already > > working, however.) > > I'm not sure if that's a good idea. > Notably with those lovely Providence dual PPro motherboards (tho I'm sure > elsewhere too), the SCSI controller wouldn't boot a dangerously dedicated > partition. I guess it really did need a fdisk table, or something. This should not be a problem with the newest bootblocks, I think. > I've never had any problems with DOS slices; what were you referring > to? When the BIOS geometry and FreeBSD geometry is out of sync, everything seems to work fine, until the system won't boot. This problem is not there with 'dangerously dedicated' partitions. Also, you get a trifle more space and a trifle faster boot, but that is less important. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 16:27:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26758 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:27:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26707 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:27:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA28020; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:26:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA13568; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:26:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981007012620.06441@follo.net> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:26:20 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jan B. Koum " Cc: Sue Blake , Greg Lehey , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jan B. Koum on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 11:34:05AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 11:34:05AM -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > Since this won't be in /etc/motd how do you plan to make sure new > users read this? How about this would be sent as a mail to root and > /etc/motd would say "issue command mail" or some such? I was hoping to put it as one of the texts included in the release (if jkh approves). Like ABOUT.TXT, README.TXT etc. If somebody has a better place to put it, I'm of course all ears - however, at least the 'dangerously dedicated' part apply before/at install - it might be better to change the text in sysinstall WRT this, perhaps, and put the rest in something that is available when you've installed. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 16:39:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28743 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:39:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28573 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:38:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19475; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:23:33 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981007002333.50430@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:23:33 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Eivind Eklund , Sue Blake Cc: Greg Lehey , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981006174328.65315@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 05:43:28PM +0200 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 05:43:28PM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > Dos and Don'ts of FreeBSD > ------------------------- > > DON'T expect to get help on IRC, and don't attempt to demand it. > #freebsd is a cesspool; the people you see there are not > representative of the FreeBSD community (and I can say this > with immunity, as I'm one of them :-) DON'T expect postings to comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc to reach active FreeBSD developers. Most of them despair of the signal/noise ratio, and concentrate on reading the mailing lists. DO use Usenet search engines such as DejaNews to search for information before posting. Searching for error messages can be particularly informative. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 18:29:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23017 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:29:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22933 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:28:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29295; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 03:28:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id DAA09871; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 03:28:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981007032833.29875@follo.net> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 03:28:33 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Studded , Sean Kelly Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> <361A6B46.73B4851@plutotech.com> <361AA3D1.B0226CF3@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <361AA3D1.B0226CF3@dal.net>; from Studded on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 04:12:17PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 04:12:17PM -0700, Studded wrote: > Sean Kelly wrote: > > > I like to think I'm beyond the journeyman stage, but I found myself > > becoming suspicious of the dos and don'ts without their matching > > explanations. > > I would like to see pointers to more detailed information as well. A > lot of people will do things JUST because you tell them not to. I'm always open for getting these references to more detailed documentation ;-) What I was trying to write was just a very quick list of 'Best practices for beginners' - if somebody want to expand it to a larger format, be my guest. I think it is important it still keep to a readable format - something that can be quickly scanned in less than 2 minutes. This can be done using the normal format for patterns languages. However, I don't have the time to write up a full pattern language for FreeBSD :-), so if somebody want to go to that level (and that would be good), it would have to be somebody else. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 19:43:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09972 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:43:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09966 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:43:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA25075; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:12:10 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA04594; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:11:21 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981007121121.K27781@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:11:21 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Matthew D. Fuller" , Eivind Eklund Cc: Sue Blake , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> <19981006150708.32072@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981006150708.32072@futuresouth.com>; from Matthew D. Fuller on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 03:07:08PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 6 October 1998 at 15:07:08 -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 05:43:28PM +0200, Eivind Eklund woke me up to tell me: >> DO use 'dangerously dedicated' mode if you're only going to have >> FreeBSD on the machine. There are a number of problems that >> can occur with DOS slices; the FreeBSD disklabel is immune to >> this. (Don't need to change if your system is already >> working, however.) > > I'm not sure if that's a good idea. > Notably with those lovely Providence dual PPro motherboards (tho I'm sure > elsewhere too), the SCSI controller wouldn't boot a dangerously dedicated > partition. I guess it really did need a fdisk table, or something. I've > never had any problems with DOS slices; what were you referring to? I recommend this in my book somewhere, too. People are continually having problems with DOS partitions. There are several different ways to shoot yourself in the foot when installing FreeBSD, and most result in an ostensibly correct installation and a system which is unable to boot. I was pleased to see that this isn't just a FreeBSD problem; last month I did a workshop at the AUUG meeting in Sydney, and was given a machine with a new 4 GB disk to do it on. They had installed DOG on the machine, just to see if it would work. It did, but DOG FDISK only saw about 290 MB (the remainder over 4 GB). Are you really sure that this MB doesn't recognize a dedicated disk? It would be the first case I have ever heard of. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 19:44:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10201 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:44:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10174 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:44:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA25084; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:13:59 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA04602; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:13:58 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981007121358.L27781@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:13:58 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nik Clayton , Eivind Eklund , Sue Blake Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> <19981007002333.50430@nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981007002333.50430@nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 12:23:33AM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 7 October 1998 at 0:23:33 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 05:43:28PM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: >> Dos and Don'ts of FreeBSD >> ------------------------- >> >> DON'T expect to get help on IRC, and don't attempt to demand it. >> #freebsd is a cesspool; the people you see there are not >> representative of the FreeBSD community (and I can say this >> with immunity, as I'm one of them :-) > > DON'T expect postings to comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc to reach active > FreeBSD developers. Most of them despair of the signal/noise > ratio, and concentrate on reading the mailing lists. Good one. How about rephrasing: DON'T use the USENET newsgroup comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc if you can use the FreeBSD mailing lists (FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.com) instead. Few FreeBSD developers read the newsgroup. > DO use Usenet search engines such as DejaNews > to search for information before posting. Searching for error > messages can be particularly informative. Also good. But maybe not enough. How about: DO use the FreeBSD web site and Usenet search engines such as DejaNews to search for information before posting. Searching DejaNews for error messages can be particularly informative. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 19:48:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10827 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:48:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10733 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:48:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09791; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:47:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19981006214747.40877@futuresouth.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:47:47 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Greg Lehey Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> <19981006150708.32072@futuresouth.com> <19981007121121.K27781@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19981007121121.K27781@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 12:11:21PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Cc's trimmed in the interest of sanity] On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 12:11:21PM +0930, Greg Lehey woke me up to tell me: > > Are you really sure that this MB doesn't recognize a dedicated disk? > It would be the first case I have ever heard of. I couldn't get it to recognize it. It'd be the BIOS on the builtin 7880, it boots just fine if I use the DOS-fdisk type mode. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 19:51:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11443 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11435 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA29890; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 04:51:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id EAA10271; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 04:51:27 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981007045126.51215@follo.net> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 04:51:26 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Greg Lehey , Nik Clayton , Sue Blake Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> <19981007002333.50430@nothing-going-on.org> <19981007121358.L27781@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981007121358.L27781@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 12:13:58PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 12:13:58PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Wednesday, 7 October 1998 at 0:23:33 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > > DO use Usenet search engines such as DejaNews > > to search for information before posting. Searching for error > > messages can be particularly informative. > > Also good. But maybe not enough. How about: > > DO use the FreeBSD web site and Usenet search engines such as > DejaNews to search for > information before posting. Searching DejaNews for error > messages can be particularly informative. I rewrote this a little more: DO use the FreeBSD web site and Usenet search engines such as DejaNews to search for information before posting. Searching DejaNews and the FreeBSD mailing list archives for your error messages can be particularly informative. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 19:55:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12047 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:55:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12005 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:54:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA25132; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:24:47 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA04646; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:24:46 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981007122446.N27781@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:24:46 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Eivind Eklund , Nik Clayton , Sue Blake Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> <19981007002333.50430@nothing-going-on.org> <19981007121358.L27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981007045126.51215@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981007045126.51215@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 04:51:26AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 7 October 1998 at 4:51:26 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 12:13:58PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Wednesday, 7 October 1998 at 0:23:33 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: >>> DO use Usenet search engines such as DejaNews >>> to search for information before posting. Searching for error >>> messages can be particularly informative. >> >> Also good. But maybe not enough. How about: >> >> DO use the FreeBSD web site and Usenet search engines such as >> DejaNews to search for >> information before posting. Searching DejaNews for error >> messages can be particularly informative. > > I rewrote this a little more: > > DO use the FreeBSD web site and Usenet search engines such as > DejaNews to search for > information before posting. Searching DejaNews and the FreeBSD > mailing list archives > for your error messages can be particularly informative. Fine Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 19:57:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12796 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:57:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from homer.talcom.net ([209.5.1.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12748 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:57:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from leo@homer.talcom.net) Received: (from leo@localhost) by homer.talcom.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA10552; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19981006225908.10731@talcom.net> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:59:08 -0400 From: Leo Papandreou To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UseNEt from Window NT References: <361A2DC2.85F83EAF@losangeles.af.mil> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <361A2DC2.85F83EAF@losangeles.af.mil>; from Ketung hsiao on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 07:48:34AM -0700 X-No-Archive: Yes X-Organization: Not very, no. X-Wife: Forgotten but not gone. Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 07:48:34AM -0700, Ketung hsiao wrote: > Dear Sir/Ms, > > I am a Window NT person learing Unix using FreeBSD. > Please advise how to get to UserGroup : > comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce > comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc > from Netscape Communicator on Microsoft NT platform. > Try entering news.losangeles.af.mil as your news server. If your news server doesnt carry those groups, visit www.dejanews.com. > I have downloaded perl5.005_002.tar.gz and am trying to unzip it. I'm trying to think of what rhymes with "orange." > Thanks a lot. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 20:02:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13936 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:02:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13864 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:01:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA25160; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:31:36 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA04661; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:31:22 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981007123122.O27781@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:31:22 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Eivind Eklund , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981006083809.00946@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 08:38:09AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 6 October 1998 at 8:38:09 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 03:53:41PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Tuesday, 6 October 1998 at 7:12:38 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: >>> Dos and Don'ts of FreeBSD >>> ------------------------- >>> >>> DON'T run pppd unless you either >>> (a) already have a working setup, or >>> (b) absolutely need the 2% reduction of CPU usage it will give >>> you. >> >> Why this? With all respect for Brian, I've found pppd to be more >> reliable. > > Because it often lead to a large amount of pain (in setup), especially > when somebody get the idea that they want to use NAT. In the cases > where there are problems with iij-ppp, my impression is it usually get > fixed pretty quickly (personally, I've never had a problem except when > I've been hacking the code myself, so I can't give more than a > second-hand impression). OK. I had to go through installing both in painful detail for my book. Everybody has always said "don't use Kernel PPP, it's painful", but I didn't find it so. In fact, the difficulty of installation is about equal. What *is* deficient is the documentation. I had some problems with user PPP a little over a year ago: when the line dropped, it was impossible to reconnect. This turned out to be a problem with the other end, but it showed up a bug in user PPP: it didn't honour the redial interval or count. On one occasion the line dropped at about 2 am, and by the time I found out it had clocked up about $135 worth of phone calls. I moved (quickly and painlessly) to kernel PPP, and since it works, I've been using it ever since. Note also that most PPP problems reported to -questions are for user PPP, not kernel PPP. This is almost certainly because most people try user PPP, but it does suggest that this rule is unnecessary. Basically, I think there are some things here that tend to the religious. How about this one: DON'T use vi or ee, use Emacs, the One True Editor. ee is wimpy, and vi is impossible to use. The sendmail/exim rule definitely belongs in the same category. >>> DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted >>> above) to any mailing list you are not a member of and have >>> read for at least two days. >> >> This sounds funny, like you want them to be a member and not have read >> it for two days. > > Is this better? > > DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted > above) to any mailing list you have not read at least two days > of traffic from. Yes, this implies you should be or have been > a member. I suppose so. We have a policy that non-members can post to -questions; how would you factor that in ("you're allowed to, but it's better not to"). Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 20:40:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21417 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:40:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21350 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:39:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA00419; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 05:39:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id FAA10515; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 05:39:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981007053916.36507@follo.net> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 05:39:16 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Greg Lehey , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981007123122.O27781@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981007123122.O27781@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 12:31:22PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 12:31:22PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 6 October 1998 at 8:38:09 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 03:53:41PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Tuesday, 6 October 1998 at 7:12:38 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > >>> Dos and Don'ts of FreeBSD > >>> ------------------------- > >>> > >>> DON'T run pppd unless you either > >>> (a) already have a working setup, or > >>> (b) absolutely need the 2% reduction of CPU usage it will give > >>> you. > >> > >> Why this? With all respect for Brian, I've found pppd to be more > >> reliable. > > > > Because it often lead to a large amount of pain (in setup), especially > > when somebody get the idea that they want to use NAT. In the cases > > where there are problems with iij-ppp, my impression is it usually get > > fixed pretty quickly (personally, I've never had a problem except when > > I've been hacking the code myself, so I can't give more than a > > second-hand impression). > > OK. I had to go through installing both in painful detail for my > book. Everybody has always said "don't use Kernel PPP, it's painful", > but I didn't find it so. In fact, the difficulty of installation is > about equal. What *is* deficient is the documentation. ... and the lack of a term mode. When I set up ppp, I found this very convenient, as I could trivially test that PPP worked in itself before I had to make sure chat scripts etc worked. [... sad story involving iij-ppp removed ...] > I moved (quickly and painlessly) to kernel PPP, and since it works, > I've been using it ever since. Note also that most PPP problems > reported to -questions are for user PPP, not kernel PPP. This is > almost certainly because most people try user PPP, but it does > suggest that this rule is unnecessary. The most severe problem is the introduction of NAT, which it seems a large amount of people are doing. I regularly see people struggle with setting up natd (due to lacking network understanding, mostly), and people that have pppd running try to set up natd instead of switching to iij-ppp. This is a shame, both because setting up natd is a pain, and because natd will NAT wrongly for any packets coming before with dynamic IPs are assigned (and this is non-fixable). However, I'll remove the statement if you accept that I give your phone-number to anybody that come asking me how to fix their problems with setting up natd to run with their already setup pppd (this is not more than two or three people each day so far) ;-) Seriously: I see a _lot_ of users drop by #freebsd and asking for help with this, which is why I included it. It was the one thing "This _really_ don't work" which led to me starting the Do/Don't list. > Basically, I think there are some things here that tend to the > religious. How about this one: > > DON'T use vi or ee, use Emacs, the One True Editor. ee is wimpy, and > vi is impossible to use. > > The sendmail/exim rule definitely belongs in the same category. Yeah - I didn't include that one. > >>> DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted > >>> above) to any mailing list you are not a member of and have > >>> read for at least two days. > >> > >> This sounds funny, like you want them to be a member and not have read > >> it for two days. > > > > Is this better? > > > > DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted > > above) to any mailing list you have not read at least two days > > of traffic from. Yes, this implies you should be or have been > > a member. > > I suppose so. We have a policy that non-members can post to > -questions; how would you factor that in ("you're allowed to, but it's > better not to"). The present text is DON'T send mail to any of the FreeBSD mailing lists not listed above (plus freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org) before you have read the mailing list you're thinking of mailing for at least a couple of days. Which types of mail that is OK for which list varies a lot, and it take a little while to pick up the 'culture' (even when you've read the charters). with freebsd-questions, freebsd-multimedia, freebsd-hackers, freebsd-isdn, and freebsd-security listed in the item above (with descriptions of when they can be used). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 21:09:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28663 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:09:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28582 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:08:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA25468; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:38:28 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id NAA04774; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:38:04 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981007133804.U27781@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:38:04 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Eivind Eklund , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981007123122.O27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981007053916.36507@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981007053916.36507@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 05:39:16AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 7 October 1998 at 5:39:16 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 12:31:22PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Tuesday, 6 October 1998 at 8:38:09 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: >>> On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 03:53:41PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>> On Tuesday, 6 October 1998 at 7:12:38 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: >>>>> Dos and Don'ts of FreeBSD >>>>> ------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> DON'T run pppd unless you either >>>>> (a) already have a working setup, or >>>>> (b) absolutely need the 2% reduction of CPU usage it will give >>>>> you. >>>> >>>> Why this? With all respect for Brian, I've found pppd to be more >>>> reliable. >>> >>> Because it often lead to a large amount of pain (in setup), especially >>> when somebody get the idea that they want to use NAT. In the cases >>> where there are problems with iij-ppp, my impression is it usually get >>> fixed pretty quickly (personally, I've never had a problem except when >>> I've been hacking the code myself, so I can't give more than a >>> second-hand impression). >> >> OK. I had to go through installing both in painful detail for my >> book. Everybody has always said "don't use Kernel PPP, it's painful", >> but I didn't find it so. In fact, the difficulty of installation is >> about equal. What *is* deficient is the documentation. > > ... and the lack of a term mode. When I set up ppp, I found this very > convenient, as I could trivially test that PPP worked in itself before > I had to make sure chat scripts etc worked. Well, yes, that's nice, though I found it rather complicated to use. > [... sad story involving iij-ppp removed ...] >> I moved (quickly and painlessly) to kernel PPP, and since it works, >> I've been using it ever since. Note also that most PPP problems >> reported to -questions are for user PPP, not kernel PPP. This is >> almost certainly because most people try user PPP, but it does >> suggest that this rule is unnecessary. > > The most severe problem is the introduction of NAT, which it seems a > large amount of people are doing. I regularly see people struggle > with setting up natd (due to lacking network understanding, mostly), > and people that have pppd running try to set up natd instead of > switching to iij-ppp. This is a shame, both because setting up natd > is a pain, and because natd will NAT wrongly for any packets coming > before with dynamic IPs are assigned (and this is non-fixable). Hmm. I set up natd for the book as well, and I didn't have much trouble. At the time, I think it was the only game in town. I haven't been watching what Brian's put into userland PPP, but I'm sure that we could find some reason to still want to use natd (for example, its symbiosis with ipfw). I still think that there's not enough pain in kernel PPP to warn against using it. > However, I'll remove the statement if you accept that I give your > phone-number to anybody that come asking me how to fix their problems > with setting up natd to run with their already setup pppd (this is not > more than two or three people each day so far) ;-) How come so many ask you? I haven't seen any worth talking about. Anyway, sure. Also point them at http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/bsdbook2.htm :-) > Seriously: I see a _lot_ of users drop by #freebsd and asking for help > with this, which is why I included it. It was the one thing "This > _really_ don't work" which led to me starting the Do/Don't list. Bounce me some of these messages, if that work in IRC. >>> DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted >>> above) to any mailing list you have not read at least two days >>> of traffic from. Yes, this implies you should be or have been >>> a member. >> >> I suppose so. We have a policy that non-members can post to >> -questions; how would you factor that in ("you're allowed to, but it's >> better not to"). > > The present text is > > DON'T send mail to any of the FreeBSD mailing lists not listed above > (plus freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org) before you have read the s/plus/including/ > mailing list you're thinking of mailing for at least a couple > of days. Which types of mail that is OK for which list varies > a lot, and it take a little while to pick up the 'culture' > (even when you've read the charters). Yes, I suppose so. How about adding "the charters of some lists allow you to send messages without being subscribed, but this doesn't make it a good idea". Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Oct 6 21:39:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04454 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04442 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:39:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA00844; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:39:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id GAA10840; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:39:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981007063912.50436@follo.net> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:39:12 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Greg Lehey , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981007123122.O27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981007053916.36507@follo.net> <19981007133804.U27781@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981007133804.U27781@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 01:38:04PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 01:38:04PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > > The most severe problem is the introduction of NAT, which it seems a > > large amount of people are doing. I regularly see people struggle > > with setting up natd (due to lacking network understanding, mostly), > > and people that have pppd running try to set up natd instead of > > switching to iij-ppp. This is a shame, both because setting up natd > > is a pain, and because natd will NAT wrongly for any packets coming > > before with dynamic IPs are assigned (and this is non-fixable). > > Hmm. I set up natd for the book as well, and I didn't have much > trouble. I haven't had problems, either, but a lot of users do. > At the time, I think it was the only game in town. Nope. ppp -alias was the only game in town for a while, then Ari took out the code from PPP to build natd, and then we dropped the duplication by creating libalias. The NAT code itself was originally written by Charles Mott for "ppp w/aliasing", with a number (4?) of the later releases done by yours truly (in cooperation with Charles). > I haven't been watching what Brian's put into userland PPP, but I'm > sure that we could find some reason to still want to use natd (for > example, its symbiosis with ipfw). Its symbiosis with ipfw is one of the prime reasons _not_ to use it. Besides, it doesn't symbiose too well with ipfw - it does, for instance, not exploit libalias' ability to allow active FTP and IRC DCC to pass through ipfw. > I still think that there's not enough pain in kernel PPP to warn > against using it. I did a quick poll among the people on #freebsd (as the set of intersection people that see the direct results on users and are easily available for me to ask). All that answered were in favour of keeping the warning, even the ones that use kernel ppp/natd themselves. I don't think I have any more arguments - it is just that my experience (in giving direct user support) indicate that it is a problem. > > However, I'll remove the statement if you accept that I give your > > phone-number to anybody that come asking me how to fix their problems > > with setting up natd to run with their already setup pppd (this is not > > more than two or three people each day so far) ;-) > > How come so many ask you? I haven't seen any worth talking about. I'm on #freebsd on IRC, and I'm listed in the man page (as one of the authors). It is the former that create the significant traffic, though. > Anyway, sure. Also point them at > http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/bsdbook2.htm :-) I regularly do. > >>> DON'T send questions about anything (beyond the exceptions noted > >>> above) to any mailing list you have not read at least two days > >>> of traffic from. Yes, this implies you should be or have been > >>> a member. > >> > >> I suppose so. We have a policy that non-members can post to > >> -questions; how would you factor that in ("you're allowed to, but it's > >> better not to"). > > > > The present text is > > > > DON'T send mail to any of the FreeBSD mailing lists not listed above > > (plus freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org) before you have read the > > s/plus/including/ Uhm, no - freebsd-newbies is not included in the list above. I don't like 'plus' either, but it is slightly better than 'and'. Any good alternative is welcome. > > mailing list you're thinking of mailing for at least a couple > > of days. Which types of mail that is OK for which list varies > > a lot, and it take a little while to pick up the 'culture' > > (even when you've read the charters). > > Yes, I suppose so. How about adding "the charters of some lists allow > you to send messages without being subscribed, but this doesn't make > it a good idea". Done. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Oct 7 03:48:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00185 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 03:48:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from barrow.uwaterloo.ca (barrow.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA00176 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 03:48:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgkruk@barrow.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from localhost (sgkruk@localhost) by barrow.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA18238; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:47:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Serge G. Kruk" To: Eivind Eklund cc: Heinz Bauschke , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, "Serge G. Kruk" , Heinz Bauschke Subject: Re: possible contribution to handbook In-Reply-To: <19981006224813.54674@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org That is a good suggestion, I agree. Though I don't know exactly how I would do that. But I still think that the handbook should include a section on Maple, if only because it has a section on Mathematica. I'll look into creating that port. Any hints? Thanks. S. On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 02:20:06PM -0400, Heinz Bauschke wrote: > > > > TITLE: How to Install Maple on FreeBSD > > > > LOCATION: should go as 23.3 in the Linux Emulation Section. > > > > CONTRIBUTED BY: Heinz Bauschke (bauschke@cecm.sfu.ca) and > > Serge Kruk (sgkruk@acm.org) > > > > We describe how to set up Maple for FreeBSD in eight easy steps. > > We tried this procudere for Maple V Release 5 on CD Rom for > > Linux for FreeBSD 2.2.6 and 2.2.7. > > I would suggest making a non-packagable port of Maple. This would > take care of all the steps, and make it easy to both install and > de-install. > > This is somewhat more work than just putting it in the handbook, but > would IMO be a better way of integrating it. > > Is this a feasible project for you? > > Eivind. > > /* ==== Serge G. Kruk ======================================= sgkruk@acm.org ==== Combinatorics & Optimization, Faculty of Mathematics ==== University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, N2L 3G1 ====== */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Oct 7 06:36:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19295 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:36:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mushi.colo.neosoft.com (mushi.colo.neosoft.com [206.109.6.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA19290 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:36:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@taronga.com) Received: (qmail 25654 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1998 13:36:34 -0000 Received: from bonkers.neosoft.com (HELO bonkers.taronga.com) (root@206.109.2.48) by mushi.colo.neosoft.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 1998 13:36:34 -0000 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA09158 for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:36:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:36:00 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199810071336.IAA09158@bonkers.taronga.com> Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.doc Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981007123122.O27781@freebie.lemis.com> Organization: none Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To: undisclosed-recipients:; [hmmmm... did my last message get through?] I personally prefer the batch orientation of kernel ppp. For someone used to setting up UUCP it's really quite simple. In article <19981007123122.O27781@freebie.lemis.com>, Greg Lehey wrote: >DON'T use vi or ee, use Emacs, the One True Editor. ee is wimpy, and > vi is impossible to use. Yeh, that's how I see the ppp/pppd rule too. >The sendmail/exim rule definitely belongs in the same category. Right, any idiot knows you should use qmail. (grinning, ducking, running like hell) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Oct 7 09:06:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19744 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:06:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19736 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:06:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Received: from plutotech.com (tampopo.plutotech.com [206.168.67.161]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20687; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:06:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <361B9186.2CA3B758@plutotech.com> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 10:06:30 -0600 From: Sean Kelly Organization: Pluto Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund CC: Studded , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dos and Don'ts References: <19981006071237.02443@follo.net> <19981006155341.C27781@freebie.lemis.com> <19981006083809.00946@follo.net> <19981006173417.64829@welearn.com.au> <19981006174328.65315@follo.net> <361A6B46.73B4851@plutotech.com> <361AA3D1.B0226CF3@dal.net> <19981007032833.29875@follo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund wrote: > However, I don't have the time to write up a full pattern language for > FreeBSD :-), so if somebody want to go to that level (and that would > be good), it would have to be somebody else. Hasn't somebody done this as a Docbook customization layer for software design patterns? I know I read that somewhere, but where?! If it really exists, it'd be easy to adapt. (Then again, John Fieber has lots of free time on his hands.) --Sean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Oct 7 10:18:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01892 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:18:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from papaya.mail.easynet.net (papaya.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA01847 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@sour.cream.org) Received: (qmail 12483 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1998 17:17:51 -0000 Received: from boothman.easynet.co.uk (194.154.100.117) by papaya.mail.easynet.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 1998 17:17:51 -0000 Received: by Boothman.easynet.co.uk (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:08:37 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981007180837.0079cbd0@ice.cream.org> X-Sender: andrew@ice.cream.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 18:08:37 +0100 To: Ananta From: Andrew Boothman Subject: Re: How do I Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <361A38C1.1F74@dial.pipex.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.0d Unregistered Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 16:35 06/10/98 +0100, Ananta wrote: >Dear Sirs > >You showed some books on your web site, but how do I order any, or do >you have a distributor in the UK I presume that you refer to "The Complete FreeBSD" by Greg Lehey. This, along with the FreeBSD release and snapshot CDs, is published by and can be ordered from Walnut Creek - http://www.cdrom.com/ I'm sure that there are many UK distributors of FreeBSD related products, but the only one which I have experience of is DGC - http://www.dgc-nms.co.uk/ and I have found them to be very reliable. BTW, you can also check out the FreeBSD UK Users Group on http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/ Hope this all helps! -- Andrew Boothman http://sour.cream.org PGP Key Available From Public Servers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Oct 7 17:27:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03871 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:27:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA03823 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:27:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zR3vD-0004O6-00; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:27:11 -0600 Received: (from imp@localhost) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) id SAA09013 for doc@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:26:48 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:26:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Warner Losh Message-Id: <199810080026.SAA09013@harmony.village.org> To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Changing tense in FAQ/handbook Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just added a question about ELF to the FAQ, per many requests. I noticed that FreeBSD 3.0 is spoken of in the future tense. Is that a known problem, or did I just discover something new :-) Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Oct 7 20:54:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08316 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:54:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ab.mbn.or.jp (ab.mbn.or.jp [202.217.0.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08292 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:54:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tani111@ab.mbn.or.jp) Received: from ab.mbn.or.jp (cse-11.kawagoe.mbn.or.jp [202.217.30.104]) by ab.mbn.or.jp (8.9.1/ab.mbn.or.jp-2.0) with ESMTP id MAA11285 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:54:19 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <361C359B.84D127DB@ab.mbn.or.jp> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 12:46:36 +0900 From: "N.Taninobu" Reply-To: tani111@ab.mbn.or.jp X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [ja] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?WEZyZWU4NhskQiROJSQlcyU5JUghPCVrJEskRCQkJEYbKEI=?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org $B!t!!$+$i(BXF86Setup $B$HF~NO$7$?$H$3$m!"(B $B!V(BNot all of the standard font files are installed The file/usr/x11r6/x11/fonts/misc/6*13.pc* is missing$B!W(B $B$H$G$F$7$^$$$^$7$?!#$I$&$7$?$i$h$m$7$$$G$7$g$&$+!)(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Btani111@ab.mbn.or.jp $BC+1d!!D>8J(B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Oct 7 21:15:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11679 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:15:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from drmemory.fnal.gov (drmemory.fnal.gov [131.225.105.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11666 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:15:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rneswold@drmemory.fnal.gov) Received: (from rneswold@localhost) by drmemory.fnal.gov (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA17695 for doc@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:15:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19981007231536.A17680@drmemory.fnal.gov> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:15:36 -0500 From: "Richard M. Neswold" To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New document available... Reply-To: rneswold@mcs.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i X-PGP-RSAfprint: 0A C8 A5 76 DF 8E E1 B3 F3 97 BE 73 DA CD 4B C9 X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.mcs.net/~rneswold/www/pub.key X-Spambot-Food: abuse@localhost postmaster@localhost abuse@fbi.gov Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I've placed a document on the web to help new FreeBSD users. The document describes various modifications I make to new FreeBSD installations -- essentially a check-list. Things like using MFS for /tmp, or setting your virtual terminals to 50-line mode. If you're interested, you can find it at: http://www.mcs.net/~rneswold/www/fbsd-init.html I'd appreciate any feedback... (you can send feedback directly to me; no need to clutter the mailing list!) -- Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rich Neswold | PGP: 0A C8 A5 76 DF 8E E1 B3 rneswold@mcs.net | F3 97 BE 73 DA CD 4B C9 http://www.mcs.net/~rneswold | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Oct 7 21:57:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18414 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:57:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pike.cdrom.com (pike.cdrom.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18405 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:57:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rab@pike.cdrom.com) Received: from pike.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by pike.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15607; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rab@pike.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810080459.VAA15607@pike.cdrom.com> To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG cc: rab@pike.cdrom.com Subject: Publishing the FreeBSD Handbook and FAQ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 21:59:34 -0700 From: "Robert A. Bruce" Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Howdy, We are planning to print books containing the FreeBSD Handbook and FAQ. We hope to send it to the printer in about 60 days. It takes about three weeks to prepare the plates, and print the books and about another month for the books to show up in the bookstores. So they should be hitting the shelves around January/February. That is about the same time FreeBSD 3.0.2 will be appearing (the first "-stable" release of the 3.X branch), so we would like to update the Handbook and FAQ so they document 3.X instead of 2.X. Does anybody have a guess about how much work this will take? Are there any other major changes that need to be made before these documents are published? -bob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Oct 7 22:33:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22605 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:33:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgate.aist-nara.ac.jp (fse4.aist-nara.ac.jp [163.221.76.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22089 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:28:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from takas-su@is.aist-nara.ac.jp) Received: from decpc20.aist-nara.ac.jp (decpc20.aist-nara.ac.jp [163.221.172.33]) by mailgate.aist-nara.ac.jp (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.6W/NAIST/GATE-3.4c-fake) with ESMTP id OAA31766; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:27:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from is (takas-su@localhost) by decpc20.aist-nara.ac.jp (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.5Wpl5/NAIST/2.0) id OAA02545; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:28:14 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:28:14 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199810080528.OAA02545@decpc20.aist-nara.ac.jp> From: takas-su@is.aist-nara.ac.jp (SUGIMURA Takashi/ =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP3lCPDUuO04bKEI=?=) To: tani111@ab.mbn.or.jp Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, takas-su@is.aist-nara.ac.jp Subject: Re: XFree86 =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJE4lJCVzJTklSCE8JWskSxsoQg==?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJEQkJCRGGyhC?= In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 Oct 1998 12:46:36 +0900". <361C359B.84D127DB@ab.mbn.or.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article of <361C359B.84D127DB@ab.mbn.or.jp>, tani111@ab.mbn.or.jp wrote: >> $B!t!!$+$i(BXF86Setup $B$HF~NO$7$?$H$3$m!"(B >> >> $B!V(BNot all of the standard font files are installed >> >> The file/usr/x11r6/x11/fonts/misc/6*13.pc* is missing$B!W(B >> >> $B$H$G$F$7$^$$$^$7$?!#$I$&$7$?$i$h$m$7$$$G$7$g$&$+!)(B >> >> $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Btani111@ab.mbn.or.jp >> >> $BC+1d!!D>8J(B >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message >> This mailing list is only in ENGLISH, and for FreeBSD Documentation Project. Please post it again to proper ML, such as FreeBSD-users-jp. --- SUGIMURA Takashi (takas-su@is.aist-nara.ac.jp) URL: http://hawk.aist-nara.ac.jp/%7Etakas-su/ (sorry only in Japanese) Software Engineering lab. of NAIST, 2nd grade of Master, The FreeBSD Japanese Documentation Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Oct 8 05:44:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22847 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 05:44:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA22838 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 05:44:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from w@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id OAA03130; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:44:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from w@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from w@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02466; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:55:52 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from w) Message-ID: <19981007025550.B2395@panke.de> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:55:50 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: obrien@NUXI.com, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: projects page References: <19981008030508.A7661@nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <19981008030508.A7661@nuxi.com>; from David O'Brien on Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 03:05:08AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1998-10-08 03:05:08 -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > The projects page is rather hidden. There is no link to it from the > homepage and it is not obvious to me if it would be under > Applications, Support, Documentation, Vendors, Search, Index. Agreed. On my todo list is to add parts of the site map and meta homepages from /search/index-site.html to the homepage /index.html Wolfram > While we are on the subject, I've always found the yellow bar with the > links not very intuitive. IMHO, it doesn't look like a set of links to > me, but rather just a pretty title. I wonder how many people new to the > FreeBSD homepage, don't realize what it is? > > -- > -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Oct 8 10:11:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03858 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:11:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03846 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:11:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21773; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:11:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <361CF242.94A8845F@dal.net> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:11:30 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-0929 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh CC: doc@FreeBSD.ORG, rab@cdrom.com Subject: Re: Changing tense in FAQ/handbook References: <199810080026.SAA09013@harmony.village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Warner Losh wrote: > > I just added a question about ELF to the FAQ, per many requests. > > I noticed that FreeBSD 3.0 is spoken of in the future tense. Is that > a known problem, or did I just discover something new :-) No, pretty much all of the documentation is written with 2.x as the present working model and 3.x off in the distance somewhere. Jordan's already asked for volunteers to go through the stuff and submit diffs, I s'pose if it's going into print soon then we should accelerate that process. :) Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Oct 8 15:50:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09768 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:50:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09630 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:50:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA08164; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ma3.seikyou.ne.jp (ma3.seikyou.ne.jp [202.211.152.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08334 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:43:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hiloshi@seikyou.ne.jp) Received: from hiloshi.seikyou.ne.jp (kyoto-506.seikyou.ne.jp [202.211.148.61]) by ma3.seikyou.ne.jp (8.8.8/3.6WNSK98032401) with ESMTP id HAA29961; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:43:28 +0900 Received: (from hiloshi@localhost) by hiloshi.seikyou.ne.jp (8.8.5/3.5Wpl7) id HAA00575; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:44:48 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199810082244.HAA00575@hiloshi.seikyou.ne.jp> Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:44:48 +0900 (JST) From: Kaneda Hiloshi Reply-To: vanitas@ma3.seikyou.ne.jp To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: vanitas@ma3.seikyou.ne.jp X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/8216: 5 typos in doscmd.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 8216 >Category: docs >Synopsis: 5 typos in doscmd.1 >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Thu Oct 8 15:50:00 PDT 1998 >Last-Modified: >Originator: Kaneda Hiloshi >Organization: Kyoto University, Japan >Release: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 >Environment: FreeBSD-current src/usr.bin/doscmd/doscmd.1 .\" BSDI doscmd.1,v 2.3 1996/04/08 19:32:29 bostic Exp >Description: manpage doscmd.1 has 5 typos: 287: "one the of the" -> "one of the" 296: "it if is" -> "if it is" 428: "will emulated" -> "will be emulated" 453: "the the" -> "to the" 687: "Not that" -> "Note that" >How-To-Repeat: man 1 doscmd >Fix: apply this patch --- doscmd.1.orig Fri Oct 9 07:31:41 1998 +++ doscmd.1 Fri Oct 9 07:31:02 1998 @@ -284,7 +284,7 @@ or commands which configure devices. Any line which has an \fB=\fP before any white space is considered to be an environment variable assignment and is added to the DOS environment. -The rest of the lines are one the of the following +The rest of the lines are one of the following .Bl -tag -width XXXXX .\" .\" @@ -293,7 +293,7 @@ Set the device to boot from. By default .Cm A: -is first tried, it if is defined, and if that fails, +is first tried, if it is defined, and if that fails, .Cm C: is tried. .\" @@ -425,7 +425,7 @@ Assign the tty or pty specified by .Ar path to be used as the specified com port. -It's base address will emulated at +It's base address will be emulated at .Ar port at interrupt specified by .Ar irq . @@ -450,7 +450,7 @@ will be assigned to the root directory (/) and the current directory for .Cm C: -will be set the the actual current directory. +will be set to the actual current directory. Note that this means that invocations such as: .sp doscmd ../foo @@ -684,7 +684,7 @@ assign D: /usr/dos assign P: -ro /usr/prb .Ed -Not that you will not always be able to access every file due to +Note that you will not always be able to access every file due to naming problems. .El .Sh DIAGNOSTICS >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Oct 9 02:23:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26404 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:23:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep6.mail.ozemail.net (fep6.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA26385; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:23:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vapour@digitaldistribution.com) Received: from knight (slmlb8p10.ozemail.com.au [203.108.183.10]) by fep6.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA15678; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:23:33 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <003c01bdf366$880b5620$0100a8c0@knight> From: "Justin Clift" To: , , Subject: *very* important addition to the installation instructions Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:23:50 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hiyas, I've had a significant amount of trouble installing FreeBSD onto an old 486 system I'm had hanging around for ages. Finally though, I solved the problem, and found out what caused it. I think this problem is common enough to warrant inserting this additional one-sentence entry into the installation instructions... "If you have to boot with '-c' on a first time install, DO NOT remove the Syscon Console Driver even if it displays as a conflict. This will leave you with a blank screen and no installation." I think that sums it up, when doing a first time install with hardware set to IRQ's etc which are different than expected, the installation instructions advise to do a boot -c. This then says to get rid of all the 'conflicts' and press Q after that. I did. No display... system hang. :-( It's only NON-OBVIOUS because the format of the Visual configuration editor makes everything look like it's a piece of hardware.... the Syscon Console Driver does and doesn't fall under this category, and when it's listed next to the mouse options looks like a weird abstract bit of hardware I don't have installed. I hope you guys do actually insert this statement into the installation docs. :-) Regards and best wishes, + Justin Clift Digital Distribution www.digitaldistribution.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Oct 9 06:37:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02837 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:37:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02812; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA18601; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:37:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA25479; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:37:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981009153722.39381@follo.net> Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:37:22 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Justin Clift , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: *very* important addition to the installation instructions References: <003c01bdf366$880b5620$0100a8c0@knight> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <003c01bdf366$880b5620$0100a8c0@knight>; from Justin Clift on Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 07:23:50PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 07:23:50PM +1000, Justin Clift wrote: > Hiyas, > > I've had a significant amount of trouble installing FreeBSD onto an old 486 > system I'm had hanging around for ages. Finally though, I solved the > problem, and found out what caused it. > > I think this problem is common enough to warrant inserting this additional > one-sentence entry into the installation instructions... > > "If you have to boot with '-c' on a first time install, DO NOT remove the > Syscon Console Driver even if it displays as a conflict. This will leave > you with a blank screen and no installation." This problem has been resolved by at least allowing the console driver to conflict; I don't remember if we also marked it non-removable. Better tech instead of better docs for this case - people don't always read docs, so if it can be resolved technically, so much the better :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Oct 9 06:40:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03392 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03330 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:40:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id GAA09502; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axl.training.iafrica.com (axl.training.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02777 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:37:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.training.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh by axl.training.iafrica.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) id 0zRcj6-0006D3-00 for FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:37:00 +0200 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:37:00 +0200 From: axl@iafrica.com Reply-To: axl@iafrica.com To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/8229: [PATCH] src/bin/cp/cp.1 nits Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 8229 >Category: docs >Synopsis: [PATCH] src/bin/cp/cp.1 nits >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: change-request >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Fri Oct 9 06:40:01 PDT 1998 >Last-Modified: >Originator: Sheldon Hearn >Organization: UUNET Internet Africa >Release: FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386 >Environment: Current and stable. >Description: Correct two small nits in cp(1) manpage; one is grammatical, the other a potential ambiguity. >How-To-Repeat: N/A >Fix: Apply the following patch (applies to head and -stable): Index: cp.1 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/bin/cp/cp.1,v retrieving revision 1.6.2.2 diff -u -d -2 -r1.6.2.2 cp.1 --- cp.1 1998/07/15 02:01:05 1.6.2.2 +++ cp.1 1998/10/07 20:03:25 @@ -144,5 +144,5 @@ If the source file has both its set user ID and set group ID bits on, and either the user ID or group ID cannot be preserved, neither -the set user ID or set group ID bits are preserved in the copy's +the set user ID nor set group ID bits are preserved in the copy's permissions. .El @@ -150,5 +150,7 @@ For each destination file that already exists, its contents are overwritten if permissions allow, but its mode, user ID, and group -ID are unchanged. +ID are unchanged (unless the +.Fl p +option is specified). .Pp In the second synopsis form, >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Oct 9 07:51:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13834 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:51:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13822 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:51:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id AAA20526; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:51:01 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981010005055.28099@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:50:55 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Eivind Eklund Cc: Justin Clift , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk Subject: Re: *very* important addition to the installation instructions References: <003c01bdf366$880b5620$0100a8c0@knight> <19981009153722.39381@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19981009153722.39381@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 03:37:22PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 03:37:22PM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 07:23:50PM +1000, Justin Clift wrote: > > Hiyas, > > > > I've had a significant amount of trouble installing FreeBSD onto an old 486 > > system I'm had hanging around for ages. Finally though, I solved the > > problem, and found out what caused it. > > > > I think this problem is common enough to warrant inserting this additional > > one-sentence entry into the installation instructions... > > > > "If you have to boot with '-c' on a first time install, DO NOT remove the > > Syscon Console Driver even if it displays as a conflict. This will leave > > you with a blank screen and no installation." > > This problem has been resolved by at least allowing the console driver > to conflict; But... the conflict is what causes some people to remove it. > I don't remember if we also marked it non-removable. I hope not. > Better tech instead of better docs for this case - people don't always > read docs, so if it can be resolved technically, so much the better :-) Fortunately we do not all hold the same views or we would have no docs and more technical fixes than users know how to use :-) Here's my doc fix which should withstand various technical fixes. In install.html under the heading "If something goes wrong..." the third paragraph currently reads: It is also possible that a probe for a device not present will cause a later probe for another device that is present to fail. In that case, the probes for the conflicting driver(s) should be disabled. Add another sentence, to become: It is also possible that a probe for a device not present will cause a later probe for another device that is present to fail. In that case, the probes for the conflicting driver(s) should be disabled. Do not disable any device you will need during installation, such as your screen (sc0). -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Oct 9 10:52:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13730 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:52:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13717 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:51:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26805; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:51:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <361E4D21.A9747DC2@gorean.org> Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:51:30 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-0929 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: Justin Clift , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk Subject: Re: *very* important addition to the installation instructions References: <003c01bdf366$880b5620$0100a8c0@knight> <19981009153722.39381@follo.net> <19981010005055.28099@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > > This problem has been resolved by at least allowing the console driver > > to conflict; > > But... the conflict is what causes some people to remove it. > > > I don't remember if we also marked it non-removable. > > I hope not. sc0 should not be removable in the visual editor at boot time. Anyone who actually needs to change terminals should also have the level of sophistication to do it in the kernel config file. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Oct 9 13:59:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18592 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:59:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2s.biglobe.ne.jp (mail2s.biglobe.ne.jp [210.147.14.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18533 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:58:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from myoshi@mua.biglobe.ne.jp) Received: from mail-gw.biglobe.ne.jp (mailsv5 [192.47.117.85]) by mail2s.biglobe.ne.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.5Wpl7-98082510) with ESMTP id FAA19493 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 05:58:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail-relay.biglobe.ne.jp by mail-gw.biglobe.ne.jp (8.8.8/3.6W-INET_GW) id FAA29057 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 05:58:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from mua.biglobe.ne.jp by mail-relay.biglobe.ne.jp (8.8.8/3.6W-BIGLOBE_RELAY) id FAA16447 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 05:57:16 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <981010055837.B418A123.2868902@mua.biglobe.ne.jp> X-Biglobe-Sender: myoshi@mua.biglobe.ne.jp X-Biglobe-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 05:58:37 +0900 From: "yoshi" To: Subject: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?RnJlZSBCU0QgcHJvIDIuMi42aiAbJEIkTiUkJXMlOSVIITwlayRLJEQbKEo=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJCQkRhsoSg==?= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 05:57:02 +0900 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Free BSD pro 2.2.6j $B$r%$%s%9%H!<%k$7$h$&$H$7$F$^$9$,!"%V!<%H%G%#%9%/$r:n$C$F(J $B%3%s%T%e!<%?$rN)$A>e$2D>$7$F$$$k$N$G$9$,!"(JFDISK $B%Q!<%F%#%C%7%g%s%(%G%#%?!<$G(J freebsd $B$N9`L\$,=P$F$3$J$$$N$G!"(Jpfdisk$B%3%^%s%I$G(JHD$B>pJs$r=q$-49$($h$&$H$9$k$N$G$9$,(J $BJQ$o$j$^$;$s(J $B;HMQ5! Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03325 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:14:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from priv-edtnps05-hme0.telusplanet.net (edtnps05.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03218 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:13:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from krazy1@telusplanet.net) Received: from telusplanet.net ([204.209.205.83]) by priv-edtnps05-hme0.telusplanet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:13:19 -0600 Message-ID: <361E8A76.D7E15DFB@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 16:13:11 -0600 From: Krazy Bastard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't understand the floppy install help pages. I wish to download and install to/from floppy, 1.44 disk. Do I just download the files in any order? Which directory do I start from? Thanks :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Oct 10 05:24:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01708 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 05:24:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01695 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 05:24:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id OAA22790; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:23:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:23:58 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Krazy Bastard Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: question References: <361E8A76.D7E15DFB@telusplanet.net> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 10 Oct 1998 14:23:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: Krazy Bastard's message of "Fri, 09 Oct 1998 16:13:11 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id FAA01699 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Krazy Bastard writes: > I don't understand the floppy install help pages. I wish to download and > install to/from floppy, 1.44 disk. Do I just download the files in any > order? Which directory do I start from? You've got to be kidding. I don't have a 2.2.7 CD handy, but a full floppy install of 2.2.6 requires 55 floppies (including the boot floppy), *all* of which must be 100% error-free. You'd be better off buying a cheap null-modem or laplink cable and installing over SLIP/PLIP from another Unix box. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Oct 10 07:51:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13571 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 07:51:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from 38.29.24.172 (ip172.salt-lake-city2.ut.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.24.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA13540 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 07:51:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from blackjack724@hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 07:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810101451.HAA13540@hub.freebsd.org> From: blackjack724@hotmail.com.TDAY To: OpportunitySeeker.TMQP Subject: Gambling System!-Computer Tested Foolproof!-Casino Manager Reveals Secrets! -WJQG X-Reply-To: blackjack724@hotmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey doc Have you read about this? I have been making a killing with this system. I had a friend run it through a computer for 1,000,000 hands of Blackjack, Roulette, and Rolls of the Dice, and it pays off! I going to the Bahama's for the Holidays. ****************************************************************************** Casino Manager Reveals Winning System! Excuse my language, but I'm going to tell you about the only casino gambling system that used to scare the Life out of me as a Casino Shift Boss! Hi! My name is Spence, and I was in the casino business for over 25 years, mostly as a Pit Boss, a Shift Boss, and then a Casino Manager in Las Vegas. My book comes with a 1000% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE FOR ONE FULL YEAR. In it, I'll show you how to finally beat the casino's. Interested? Then read on. I've seen it all, winners, losers, suckers, cheaters (with and without broken fingers by da boys), killer lucky streaks, card counters, mafia bosses, and more systems than you can name. But there is only ONE that works 100% of the time if you follow it through. Let me tell you something. As a casino dealer, I hated system players. They were a pain in the ass. As a Pit Boss, I loved them. As a Shift Boss, I adored them. As a Casino Manager, I gave them anything they wanted. Tickets to the Best Shows, Deluxe Suites with Jacuzzi's and a Beautiful View, the Best Escort Services, First Class Food, Drinks, Limousines to get them around town, and back and forth to the airport. You name it. It was theirs, and I had the power to give it. And I did-- for "FREE". Why? Because they all lost their money sooner or later. I loved gamblers. They made a good living for me, but I always thought they were the biggest bunch of suckers on God's Creation. Then I met a man I called "The Master". I watched him every day he came in. Every day, he quietly played a few hands of BlackJack, or perhaps Craps was his game that day, or Roulette. I kept a close eye on him, had the camera's take his picture, and had security watch him close, just to see if there was anything fishy going on. Nothing! Not one damn thing. This guy was good, but he was different. He wasn't a pro, or a card counter, or a cheater. He just had a system, and legally I had to let him use it. And every day he would win, a few hundred here, a thousand this day, five hundred the next. He'd trick me once in a while and LOSE while I was watching, but then he'd make it back the next day. Oh he was good, real good. You see, he tried to make me think he was a loser just like the others, but he was actually making hundred's, if not thousands, a week. And that was just at my shop, my casino. There's no telling what he was doing at the other joints in town. So being the good boss I was, I kept track of this guy. I introduced myself to him, to get to know him better. After all, that's my job, to find out what makes people tick, to pump the players for information, to put this guy in the books, and get the word around town that it looked like someone had found a way...perhaps "the" way. I got to know him pretty good. I'd buy him drinks, and I'd get him talking. He had quite a story. I was skeptical, but I listened. It was my job. He took me into his confidence, (and his into mine) and we had dinner numerous times, played golf, even became friends. I took care of him, and it paid off. One night, he showed me "the plan". It was simple, direct, easy,... practically no buy-in.., and no skill...you could start with $20-$30, and as he showed me, you could make a killing. Now, let me tell you, I had seen it all. When you're in the "business", you get a little cynical. Everyone has a scam, a plan, a con. Las Vegas is full of these types of morons. But then out of all those "little guys" trying to be BIG GUYS, I never met one quite like "The Master". He wasn't a con, or scam artist. He was one of the few...the few that actually were making it, the cream that had risen to the top, the professional gambler that lived off the casino's. AND BOY, DID HE LIVE!!! 2 Mercedes, a Las Vegas Mansion, Antiques to fill their rooms, two maids, a swimming pool, pictures hanging on the walls of his office showing where he had traveled all over the world. Stock accounts, Bonds, Real Estate, you name it. Did he get it all from gambling? No, not all of it.. Some was from other lucrative business deals. But the man was self-made. He lived a life most of us only dream about. He's put three kids through school, gave money to charity. I mean the guy even had a heart. "I give to charity because my wife made me promise her before she died, that I'd help others out. Last year I gave away close to $250,000." Must of loved his wife a lot. The more I got to know this guy, even with the babes in bikini's at his swimming pool, and at his beach house in Hawaii, the more I saw something else. He wanted some real friends. He had only a few that he could count on one hand. I was lucky to make it into that elite group. Well, my friend is gone now, but I'll never forget the times we had. He'd fly me to New York City for a weekend, and we'd check out a play or two on Broadway, go see some jazz in the Village, and then off to Atlantic City to play. I traveled with him to Monte Carlo, and Europe. Everywhere we went, at every casino, he'd pocket hundreds, sometimes thousands. I started to play myself, and started to WIN. I bought a new house, paid off my debts (a lot of them too), bought a new car, had real money in the bank for the first time in my life, and let me tell you I was not a gambler. Remember? To me gambler's were suckers and losers. I was definitely not in that crowd. But this was different. I wasn't a gambler. I was a WINNER. And now, I'm gonna show you how to be a WINNER too. Welcome to the club, kid. You made it. I'm gonna give you "The Master's Plan". Now, if you'll just bear with me a little here. I'm gonna let you in on a little somethin'. With the combined expertise of my inside knowledge into how the casino's work, and "The Master's Plan", you are going to be UNSTOPPABLE. Like I said, I know the business, and I know it real good, see. That gives you a real advantage, because you're gonna need it. I know all the tricks in the book. How the casino's put in a ringer to get you to lose, shills that'll sit in on your game to screw up your cards, how the dealers are changed to get things to go the casino's way. I'll let you in on the following: * What are those camera's in the casino all about, and how do they keep track of the player whose really winning. * What tricks do the bosses use to keep you playing at their casino. * How the boss will get you drunker than shit to get you to lose. * How to get free rooms, food, shows, Limo's and more from the boss. * How the games are set up so you HAVE to lose, (Unless you have "The Master's Plan"!) * What to do if you're followed, and someone is out to do you no good. * What games you should play and what you should stay away from. * Why you should never drink and gamble, but how to make the casino's think you are. * What never to do in a casino. (It'll get you put in jail faster than you can sneeze.) * Communication between the different casino's. (Yes, we tip off all the places in town, if there's a "dangerous player" around, complete with pictures.) * How to keep from being recognized. * The easiest way to count cards. (This ones so simple, my 8 year old can do it.) * How the bosses get "tipped off" to whether you're up to no good. * To tip the dealer, or not tip the dealer, and how tipping will get you a really good friend who'll let you slide on a mistake or two. (wink, wink) * Whose the most dangerous dealer in the casino, and how to spot him. * How to keep track of losing dealers, and dealers who are just having a bad shift. * Every single inside scam, con, cheat in the book, and why most don't work, and a few that will. (Just don't get caught.) * Gambling for "FREE". (You heard it right. It's not a typo.) * How to "team" play. * Why you should almost never piss off a casino dealer, boss, cocktail waitress, and when you definitely SHOULD. * Casino psychology. A complete look at how the casino thinks. ("Casino", the movie, only showed a part of it, and another movie told all. Find out which one.) * And a lot, LOT more. Let me tell you something, if your a gambler, or just like to play occasionally for fun, and you don't order this book, you're be a fool. *A fool because this is the "only" way you'll ever win. *A fool because I give you a year's guarantee. *A fool because this guarantee will pay you a 1000% return if "The Master's Plan" doesn't make you a winning gambler. That's right. Here's the deal. You get this book with all the answers in it that'll make you a success at the casino. Your investment is less than the "buy in" at a $2 table. You get an entire YEAR from the time you order to test out the system. That gives you plenty of time to get to Vegas or the nearest Casino, and try it out. Or try it out at home with a deck of cards, a toy Roulette Wheel, or a pair of dice. Don't risk any of your own money at the casino's just yet. Try it at home. Once you get to the casino's and use "The Master's Plan" in live action, if it doesn't make you some serious money, every time you play, you write to me, and I'll give you 1000% back as a guarantee. That's the gamble, and you can't lose on this one. You'll get 10 times your money back if this doesn't work for you. Your investment for "The Master's Plan" is practically nothing. Just as if you were buying a book at the store, where currently it is unavailable, "The Master's Plan" can be yours for a small investment of $39.95. And if it doesn't work, you have one year to claim the 1000% guarantee. You give me $39.95, and if it doesn't work, I'll send you back $400. So why am I doing this, if I'm so rich. Let's just say I have a few old scores to settle, and I can't think of a better way than to get this plan out there, in the open and wide spread. I charge the $39.95 because nothing in this world is free, and I think you can appreciate the idea of a little exchange for a wise investment. Here's how you get the book. You order it direct from me. I live in a little town outside of Las Vegas now, in St. George, Utah. It's nice, small, sunny year round, and plenty of golf, and if I want to make some more money at the tables, I've got Mesquite, Nevada about 45 minutes away, and Vegas in less than 2 hours . To me it's semi-retirement. I'm out of the business now, and doing something that I love...Writing. This is my first work, and to be honest with you, the cheapest way to do it is by myself. I'll accept your personal check, business check, money order, or cash. (2-$20) (Personal and business checks may take up to 4 weeks to clear.) I apologize, but I'm just not set up for credit cards at this time. I am looking into it currently, and hope to accept them soon. When ordering, please take the appropriate security measures for your own protection, especially if sending cash. For your protection and fast service I would recommend a money order. This way you can be sure you are watching out for your own investment, and assure fast delivery of this incredible book. Just take your preferred method of investment, and wrap it in between 2 pieces of paper. (Please add $5.00 shipping and handling, if you’d like a hard copy, for a total investment of $44.95) On one of the sheets, write your name, full address including zip code, and your e-mail address. Type all the information if you can, or at least write legibly. Tell me that you want "The Master's Plan" so you can kick some ass at the tables. Put your order in an envelope, stamp it, and send it to: Utah Completion Company (Yes, I pay Taxes.) 465 S. Bluff #272 St. George, Utah 84770 Att: Games/109 Bluff St. You gotta love it. What a great street name to get a book on gambling. Once I get your small investment. I will e-mail you my book. It may take a while to download, but if you suddenly check your e-mail, and you notice there's a large file coming in, it'll be me. (Hard copy will be delivered by US Postal Mail.) Oh and if you order in the next 10 days, I'll send you a piece of software that'll DOUBLE, even TRIPLE the speed of your computer.. free. Even if you take the guarantee, and I send you $400, you get to keep the software...worth about $40 on the open market. A friend of mine developed it, and said I could give it away if I wanted to. Just another computer nerd who has fun messing with Intel's and Bill Gates' head. They hate this software because it makes cpu chips obsolete the moment it's installed. Turns a 486 into a Pentium, and a Pentium into what Intel hasn't developed yet. See what I mean. That's why they hate it. See, you can't lose on this one. OK kid, so what are you waiting for. The worst that could happen is you get $400 out of the deal. So go for it now. Send the $39.95, and "it'll be nothing but blue skies..." Good Luck! Spence PS. I am looking for distributors. If after buying this book at full price, you decide that you'd like to help sell it, then you do the advertising, and attach your distributor number. For every order I get with your number on it, I'll send you $20. The checks are sent once a month. Just 2 orders, and you get your money back on the original book order. No Sign-Up Fee. Just let me know you want to be a distributor, I'll assign you a number, use this ad if you want to, and I'll give you the name and address of a place to get e-mail software CHEAP!!! Or use any other means you want. The sky's the limit. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Oct 10 08:29:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA17669 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:29:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep6.mail.ozemail.net (fep6.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17644 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:29:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vapour@digitaldistribution.com) Received: from knight (slmlb1p49.ozemail.com.au [203.108.181.113]) by fep6.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA09218 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:29:25 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <000e01bdf462$c8dad980$0100a8c0@knight> From: "Justin Clift" To: Subject: Another inclusion in the docs Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:29:33 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hiya, I just thought I'd let you know that the following card works with FreeBSD (so you can add it to the docs if you want). The 'HP J2405A NC/16 TP PC LAN Adapter' works when configured as an NE2100. There is a dos based setup utility driver which can be downloaded from the HP support site (and even comes with SCO Unix driver source code if anyone wants it) which detects/changes the DMA/IRQ/PORT settings if need be too. :-) Regards and best wishes, + Justin Clift Digital Distribution www.digitaldistribution.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Oct 10 08:48:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19608 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19603; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:48:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rnordier@FreeBSD.org) From: Robert Nordier Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA21318; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810101548.IAA21318@freefall.freebsd.org> To: horikawa@jp.freebsd.org, rnordier@FreeBSD.ORG, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/8103 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: newfs_msdos.8: `.' after `-b block-size' is not needed. State-Changed-From-To: open-closed State-Changed-By: rnordier State-Changed-When: Sat Oct 10 08:47:32 PDT 1998 State-Changed-Why: Committed, thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Oct 10 11:12:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10960 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:12:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10952 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:12:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA08177; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:12:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA05977; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:12:36 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981010201235.49795@follo.net> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:12:35 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Sue Blake Cc: Justin Clift , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk Subject: Re: *very* important addition to the installation instructions References: <003c01bdf366$880b5620$0100a8c0@knight> <19981009153722.39381@follo.net> <19981010005055.28099@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981010005055.28099@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 12:50:55AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 12:50:55AM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 03:37:22PM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 07:23:50PM +1000, Justin Clift wrote: > > > Hiyas, > > > > > > I've had a significant amount of trouble installing FreeBSD onto an old 486 > > > system I'm had hanging around for ages. Finally though, I solved the > > > problem, and found out what caused it. > > > > > > I think this problem is common enough to warrant inserting this additional > > > one-sentence entry into the installation instructions... > > > > > > "If you have to boot with '-c' on a first time install, DO NOT remove the > > > Syscon Console Driver even if it displays as a conflict. This will leave > > > you with a blank screen and no installation." > > > > This problem has been resolved by at least allowing the console driver > > to conflict; > > But... the conflict is what causes some people to remove it. By _allowing_ it to conflict, it will not be shown as in conflict. > > I don't remember if we also marked it non-removable. > > I hope not. As Doug said - those people that don't want a console driver even though they have a graphics card should be sophisticated enough to know about the kernel config file. > > Better tech instead of better docs for this case - people don't always > > read docs, so if it can be resolved technically, so much the better :-) > > Fortunately we do not all hold the same views or we would have no docs > and more technical fixes than users know how to use :-) If a problem can be fully resolved technically (ie, we make it impossible to shoot oneself in the foot without this being in the way of shooting that mouse by the foot), then that is better than documenting the way to shoot your foot and saying "DON'T DO THIS". True technical fixes are IMO always better than documenting around the brokenness (and the brokenness that conflict caused was resolved years ago, so not marking it as conflicting is quite fine). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Oct 10 11:14:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11122 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:14:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from algnet.algonquinc.on.ca ([205.211.30.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11117 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:14:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lamo0015@algonquinc.on.ca) Received: from algonquinc.on.ca ([205.211.60.97]) by algnet.algonquinc.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11923 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <361FA3AB.D92C9B8@algonquinc.on.ca> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:12:59 -0400 From: Bill LaMorre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Pentium II &freeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I'm looking at installing freeBSD on my PII home computer but I'm wondering if there are any known incompatibilities between BSD and PII's. Any information that you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Bill LaMorre P.S. I am very impressed with this site; it has one of the best layouts that I've seen for LINUX or BSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Oct 10 11:48:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14288 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:48:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elisa.utopianet.net ([212.210.224.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14283 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rlucia@elisa.utopianet.net) Received: (from rlucia@localhost) by elisa.utopianet.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id UAA16732; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:49:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from rlucia) Message-ID: <19981010204925.B16679@utopianet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:49:25 +0200 From: Rocco Lucia To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Bill LaMorre Subject: Re: Pentium II &freeBSD Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, Bill LaMorre References: <361FA3AB.D92C9B8@algonquinc.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91 In-Reply-To: <361FA3AB.D92C9B8@algonquinc.on.ca>; from Bill LaMorre on Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 02:12:59PM -0400 X-Disclaimer: The truth is out there X-Organization: Iscanet Internet Services X-Evil: Microsoft Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 02:12:59PM -0400, Bill LaMorre wrote: > Hi, > I'm looking at installing freeBSD on my PII home computer but I'm > wondering if there are any known incompatibilities between BSD and > PII's. Any information that you could give me would be greatly > appreciated. > it works fine, just remember to compile w/ cpu "I686_CPU" in your kernel config file. rocco -- Rocco Lucia Iscanet Internet Services rlucia@utopianet.net System and Network Admin Free unices for a free world. Support *BSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Oct 10 14:42:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05160 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:42:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05108 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:41:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id HAA27124; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:40:58 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981011074052.21400@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:40:52 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Eivind Eklund Cc: Justin Clift , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk Subject: Re: *very* important addition to the installation instructions References: <003c01bdf366$880b5620$0100a8c0@knight> <19981009153722.39381@follo.net> <19981010005055.28099@welearn.com.au> <19981010201235.49795@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19981010201235.49795@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 08:12:35PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 08:12:35PM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 12:50:55AM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 03:37:22PM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 07:23:50PM +1000, Justin Clift wrote: > > > > Hiyas, > > > > > > > > I've had a significant amount of trouble installing FreeBSD onto an old 486 > > > > system I'm had hanging around for ages. Finally though, I solved the > > > > problem, and found out what caused it. > > > > > > > > I think this problem is common enough to warrant inserting this additional > > > > one-sentence entry into the installation instructions... > > > > > > > > "If you have to boot with '-c' on a first time install, DO NOT remove the > > > > Syscon Console Driver even if it displays as a conflict. This will leave > > > > you with a blank screen and no installation." > > > > > > This problem has been resolved by at least allowing the console driver > > > to conflict; > > > > But... the conflict is what causes some people to remove it. > > By _allowing_ it to conflict, it will not be shown as in conflict. Oops, that's the opposite meaning! Now I agree :-) > > > I don't remember if we also marked it non-removable. > > > > I hope not. > > As Doug said - those people that don't want a console driver even > though they have a graphics card should be sophisticated enough to > know about the kernel config file. I now realise that sc0 can be disabled during installation by using KernelConfig in non-visual mode. That's a relief, coz it's hard to build a new kernel before installation. > > > Better tech instead of better docs for this case - people don't always > > > read docs, so if it can be resolved technically, so much the better :-) > > > > Fortunately we do not all hold the same views or we would have no docs > > and more technical fixes than users know how to use :-) > > If a problem can be fully resolved technically (ie, we make it > impossible to shoot oneself in the foot without this being in the way > of shooting that mouse by the foot), then that is better than > documenting the way to shoot your foot and saying "DON'T DO THIS". > > True technical fixes are IMO always better than documenting around the > brokenness (and the brokenness that conflict caused was resolved years > ago, so not marking it as conflicting is quite fine). That makes sense in this case, where it wasn't actually a bug and it does seem to be impossible to make that mistake now. Your first response sounded a bit heartless until you explained. In general, there is still one problem when a technical fix replaces documentation that makes me nervous. I don't see a worthwhile solution for it either. Anyone who installs an earlier version has neither the technical fix nor the docco. These people include those who have been given slightly older CDs to try FreeBSD, purchasers of books with CDs that have been sitting on the shelf a while, and people in other countries where new releases arrive slowly and the level of Internet access is poor. For example, over the next few months 50 people that I have spoken to will be installing 2.2.6 with little assistance and few resources. The CDs placed in schools and libraries could reach hundreds more. Upgrading to escape a mysterious undocumented problem might be less palatable than trying a more popular OS that is easy to obtain locally. If they were to find something that has become an undocumented "technical fix" in a later version, we must assume they will find their way to freebsd-questions and be treated kindly there by those with good memories. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Oct 10 16:17:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13956 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13951 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:17:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21525; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:16:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Sue Blake cc: Eivind Eklund , Justin Clift , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk Subject: Re: *very* important addition to the installation instructions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:40:52 +1000." <19981011074052.21400@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:16:50 -0700 Message-ID: <21521.908061410@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > If they were to find something that has become an undocumented > "technical fix" in a later version, we must assume they will find their > way to freebsd-questions and be treated kindly there by those with good > memories. I see nowhere here any stipulation against putting a note in the FAQ or handbook, appropriately marked as applicable to FreeBSD 2.2.7 and earlier releases. I suggest the FAQ as the best vehicle for this, and sending your contribution to faq@freebsd.org as diffs to the existing FAQ (which is readily cvsup/ftp/CTMable) is far more likely to resolve this problem expediently than any other course of action I could think of. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Oct 10 21:33:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13531 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:33:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rip.psg.com (rip.psg.com [147.28.0.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13526 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:33:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from randy@psg.com) Received: from roam.psg.com (randy@roam.psg.com [147.28.2.2]) by rip.psg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA09228; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from randy@psg.com) Message-ID: <36203484.41C67EA6@psg.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:31:00 -0700 From: Randy Bush Organization: PSGnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; BSD/OS 3.1 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG CC: randy@psg.com Subject: book w/o man pages, please Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org i'd even pay an extra ten bucks to get the book WITHOUT the man pages. as it is, one can not carry it anywhere, read it in bed, ... it's even too big for the dog to eat! randy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Oct 10 22:34:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19226 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:34:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19215 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:34:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA14022; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:03:34 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id PAA24538; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:03:33 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981011150333.B24503@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:03:33 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Randy Bush , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: book w/o man pages, please References: <36203484.41C67EA6@psg.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <36203484.41C67EA6@psg.com>; from Randy Bush on Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 09:31:00PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 10 October 1998 at 21:31:00 -0700, Randy Bush wrote: > i'd even pay an extra ten bucks to get the book WITHOUT the man > pages. as it is, one can not carry it anywhere, read it in bed, > ... it's even too big for the dog to eat! Well, this isn't a -doc issue, but your prayers have been heard. The next edition (whenever that is; we don't have a schedule yet) will be without man pages. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message