From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Oct 15 20:42:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29599 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:42:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eros.che.curtin.edu.au (eros.che.curtin.edu.au [134.7.142.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA29594 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:42:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdr@eros.che.curtin.edu.au) Received: (from gdr@localhost) by eros.che.curtin.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01982; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:38:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from gdr) From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <199810160338.NAA01982@eros.che.curtin.edu.au> Subject: Re: applixware discussion In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at "Oct 15, 98 10:30:17 am" To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:38:53 +1000 (EST) Cc: stephen@farrell.org, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Organisation: Well Control Australia Phone: +618 9266 7586 Fax: +618 9266 3554 Reply-To: gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au (Gary Roberts) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ron G. Minnich writes :- > I'm well aware that this is not a hacker thing, but memory tells me that > it came up on this list. I am sorry if my memory is wrong. Probably you are referring to the following from Stephen Farrell which came up on emulation on Sep 29. emulation probably isn't the right list either as we are now discussing application usability rather that the emulation process itself. However this is important to all potential users of this type of application, so I'm very glad you passed on your experiences. There must be a *huge* potential market to lure dissatisfied M$ users to any unix, Linux or *BSD if only there were some very good *office apps around which _did_ have workable filters and converters, etc. > > Just a quick note to say that applix 4.4.1 for linux (the new version > > which supports office 97 data) works flawlessly on stock fbsd 2.2.7 > > (for me, to date) -- no special steps required for fbsd. > > So far I've tested the install, retrieving of office 97 documents > > (word and excel), email, printing and various other settings. I have > > not yet succeeded in figuring out how/if the SQL stuff works, but I > > cannot see why it wouldn't. > > For more information on this product, see http://linux.applix.com/ > Anyway, I have the latest applixware release. It's 99 bucks. If you think > it will let you share M$ office files with other M$ office users, it won't. > The filters don't work. In particular, powerpoint and word graphics and > charts get damaged or deleted. So if you're planning on getting > applixware for M$ office interoperation, don't waste your money. Looks like what you would expect :-). As noted by Stephen, some things work, but you have found things that don't. > Now if you just want an ok set of tools for office use, applixware is > pretty nice. Unlike stupid M$ office tools, the files are not based on a > binary format -- what a concept. There's lots of things to like in these > tools, as long as working filters are not a concern. This is the bit that particularly interested me. If the aim was to wean a Secretary away from M$ office (a complete withdrawal :-). ) can what you bought fill the void? I want to run an all FreeBSD shop and I don't mind a bit of pain and suffering (from withdrawal symptoms) in order to get there. > Sorry for this digression if this is a wrong list. Please don't followup > to -hackers I've shifted it to emulation so that other people running similar apps under linux emulation will see it and perhaps share their experiences. > Ron Minnich |"Using Windows NT, which is known to have some > rminnich@sarnoff.com | failure modes, on a warship is similar to hoping > (609)-734-3120 | that luck will be in our favor"- A. Digiorgio > ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Oct 15 21:10:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03380 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 21:10:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from couatl.uchicago.edu (couatl.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03372 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 21:10:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@couatl.uchicago.edu) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by couatl.uchicago.edu (8.9.1/8.9.0) id XAA12713; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:10:42 -0500 (CDT) To: gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au (Gary Roberts) Cc: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich), emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: applixware discussion References: <199810160338.NAA01982@eros.che.curtin.edu.au> From: stephen farrell Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 15 Oct 1998 23:10:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: Gary Roberts's message of "Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:38:53 +1000 (EST)" Message-ID: <87btndm9j1.fsf@couatl.uchicago.edu> Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Anyway, I have the latest applixware release. It's 99 bucks. If > > you think it will let you share M$ office files with other M$ > > office users, it won't. The filters don't work. In particular, > > powerpoint and word graphics and charts get damaged or deleted. So > > if you're planning on getting applixware for M$ office > > interoperation, don't waste your money. Have you written to Applix about this problem? As I wrote, the filters appear to work OK for Word and Excel, I don't have any powerpoint docs to test with. One document which didn't load for me was a Dutch word8 file, but the others I tried were fine (admittedly a small sample set -- like 3 or 4). Nevertheless, I think your statement is too strong, especially in light of the dearth of competing products. -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Oct 15 23:43:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20871 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:43:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles312.castles.com [208.214.167.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20865 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:43:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01176; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:47:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810160647.XAA01176@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LD_PRELOAD & Linux emulation In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:30:40 +0800." <199810160630.OAA14793@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:47:25 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please ask emulation-related questions on the -emulation list (moved there). > I understand that our own binaries can benefit from the LD_PRELOAD > hack - however this does not seem to extend to Linux binaries under the > emulator. LD_PRELOAD is handled by the dynamic linker. If the Linux linker doesn't handle it, then you lose. > How new is our Linux binary set anyway? Are there any plans to > support glibc binaries? The current linux_lib port is a bit woefully old. We support glibc binaries, but you need a new set of libs. It's hard to work out which ones we should have, and harder still because there's no real "owner" of our Linux emulation at this point in time. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 01:07:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA27062 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:07:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA27044 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:07:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01903; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:06:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199810160806.KAA01903@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: LD_PRELOAD & Linux emulation In-Reply-To: <199810160647.XAA01176@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Oct 15, 98 11:47:25 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:06:59 +0200 (CEST) Cc: shocking@prth.pgs.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > > How new is our Linux binary set anyway? Are there any plans to > > support glibc binaries? > > The current linux_lib port is a bit woefully old. We support glibc > binaries, but you need a new set of libs. It's hard to work out which > ones we should have, and harder still because there's no real "owner" > of our Linux emulation at this point in time. We dont ??, strange, I've always thought of it as my baby :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 01:11:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA27487 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:11:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles312.castles.com [208.214.167.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA27478; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:11:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA01642; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810160815.BAA01642@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), shocking@prth.pgs.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LD_PRELOAD & Linux emulation In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:06:59 +0200." <199810160806.KAA01903@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:15:42 -0700 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id BAA27482 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > > > > How new is our Linux binary set anyway? Are there any plans to > > > support glibc binaries? > > > > The current linux_lib port is a bit woefully old. We support glibc > > binaries, but you need a new set of libs. It's hard to work out which > > ones we should have, and harder still because there's no real "owner" > > of our Linux emulation at this point in time. > > > We dont ??, strange, I've always thought of it as my baby :) Great. Maintain it, Dad. 8) Seriously, we're probably down 5-10 syscalls, and the supporting libraries haven't been updated for ~12 months or so. Saying "I wrote lots of it" is fine, but "I maintain it" is another story altogether. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 01:34:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA28878 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:34:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA28866; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:34:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01967; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:34:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199810160834.KAA01967@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: LD_PRELOAD & Linux emulation In-Reply-To: <199810160815.BAA01642@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Oct 16, 98 01:15:42 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:34:12 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, shocking@prth.pgs.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > > > > > The current linux_lib port is a bit woefully old. We support glibc > > > binaries, but you need a new set of libs. It's hard to work out which > > > ones we should have, and harder still because there's no real "owner" > > > of our Linux emulation at this point in time. > > > > We dont ??, strange, I've always thought of it as my baby :) > > Great. Maintain it, Dad. > > 8) > > Seriously, we're probably down 5-10 syscalls, and the supporting > libraries haven't been updated for ~12 months or so. Saying "I wrote > lots of it" is fine, but "I maintain it" is another story altogether. I'm talking only about the linuxulator not the libs, thats a totally different story (ie nightmare). What currently seems to be the showstopper is our pipe implementation, I'm not sure what exactly is the problem yet. I've just freed a machine and gotten a redhat 5.1 installed (and people complain about our install :) ).... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 01:52:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA00507 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:52:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bock.nettek-llc.com (d01a850c.dip.cdsnet.net [208.26.133.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA00455; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:51:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stevel@mail.cdsnet.net) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (localhost.nettek-llc.com [127.0.0.1]) by bock.nettek-llc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA27412; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:49:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stevel@mail.cdsnet.net) Message-ID: <36270897.F7381BBA@mail.cdsnet.net> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:49:27 -0700 From: Steve Logue Organization: http://www.nettek-llc.com/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-BETA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LD_PRELOAD & Linux emulation References: <199810160815.BAA01642@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------28A153C52CF4A320B443BFCA" Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --------------28A153C52CF4A320B443BFCA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Smith wrote: > > > We dont ??, strange, I've always thought of it as my baby :) > > Great. Maintain it, Dad. > > 8) > > Seriously, we're probably down 5-10 syscalls, and the supporting > libraries haven't been updated for ~12 months or so. Saying "I wrote > lots of it" is fine, but "I maintain it" is another story altogether. > As far as the linux_lib package/port is concerned, is there room for another person to help? My business runs on FreeBSD, and I have a critical need to be able to run many Linux programs now and in the future. Therefore the proper functioning of such is worth money to me, and I would be willing to maintain a current RedHat machine to steal libraries, and other config files from as well as negotiating with Linux software producing companies. I can also deal with NDA's if needed to improve linux_lib. Lastly, why can't we automate this by scripted extraction straight from a series of Red Hat packages (the horse's mouth) - let Red Hat manage for us what is the latest linux library/config files of the day? -STEVEl -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Steve Logue http://www.nettek-llc.com/ nettek LLC PC hardware/software sales (541) 582-4602 voice/fax Unix/Windows integration ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------28A153C52CF4A320B443BFCA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Smith wrote:
 
> We dont ??, strange, I've always thought of it as my baby :)

Great.  Maintain it, Dad.

8)

Seriously, we're probably down 5-10 syscalls, and the supporting
libraries haven't been updated for ~12 months or so.  Saying "I wrote
lots of it" is fine, but "I maintain it" is another story altogether.
 

As far as the linux_lib package/port is concerned, is there room for another person to help?
My business runs on FreeBSD, and I have a critical need to be able to run many Linux programs now and in the future.
Therefore the proper functioning of such is worth money to me, and I would be willing to maintain a current RedHat machine to steal libraries, and other config files from as well as negotiating with Linux software producing companies.  I can also deal with NDA's if needed to improve linux_lib.  Lastly, why can't we automate this by scripted extraction straight from a series of Red Hat packages (the horse's mouth) - let Red Hat manage for us what is the latest linux library/config files of the day?

-STEVEl
  

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Logue                       http://www.nettek-llc.com/
nettek LLC                        PC hardware/software sales
(541) 582-4602 voice/fax          Unix/Windows integration
------------------------------------------------------------
  --------------28A153C52CF4A320B443BFCA-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 06:10:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24305 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:10:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA24297 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:09:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA11380; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:09:24 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:09:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Gary Roberts cc: stephen@farrell.org, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: applixware discussion In-Reply-To: <199810160338.NAA01982@eros.che.curtin.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I assume I was supposed to followup to emulation as well. You could run an office on applix and I think it would work quite well. But if you need document interchange with other companies and those companies insist on M$ Office, you're dead. That's the problem. ron Ron Minnich |"Using Windows NT, which is known to have some rminnich@sarnoff.com | failure modes, on a warship is similar to hoping (609)-734-3120 | that luck will be in our favor"- A. Digiorgio ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 06:14:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25227 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:14:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA25216 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:14:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA11433; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:13:51 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:13:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: stephen farrell cc: Gary Roberts , emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: applixware discussion In-Reply-To: <87btndm9j1.fsf@couatl.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 15 Oct 1998, stephen farrell wrote: > Have you written to Applix about this problem? I will do that, I am somewhat mad at them as this is the second time I have bought product from them based on their claims and it has not worked. I just keep trying to support these underdogs, and getting burned. > As I wrote, the filters appear to work OK for Word and Excel, I don't > have any powerpoint docs to test with. One document which didn't load > for me was a Dutch word8 file, but the others I tried were fine > (admittedly a small sample set -- like 3 or 4). Nevertheless, I think > your statement is too strong, especially in light of the dearth of > competing products. You've tried 3 or 4 things. I've tried lots more. It does not work for most of them. It can barely manage simple text-based documents. Most Word files are fast-saved (i.e. Save option on menu or ^S from keyboard), and the filter that reads these files warns you up front that it can not read them reliably. So for most files you read, you are going to get a warning that they can not be read reliably. You can't in most cases call the customer up and ask them to use 'Save As' on that document they just sent you! I don't see how stating it does not work is too strong -- you have to see how badly it has done in reading files in! It is quite useless for M$ Office document sharing. ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 07:48:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06751 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:48:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06734; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:48:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jfieber@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA07656; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:48:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:48:14 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= cc: Mike Smith , shocking@prth.pgs.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LD_PRELOAD & Linux emulation In-Reply-To: <199810160834.KAA01967@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: > What currently seems to be the showstopper is our pipe > implementation, I'm not sure what exactly is the problem yet. Pipes look to be the second-level showstopper for Sybase (the first was async-io, now fixed). It stops the show because you cannot do database or transaction log dumps. I haven't had a chance to look into it yet though... -john To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 08:23:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10183 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:23:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10176; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:23:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA05187; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:23:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199810161523.RAA05187@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: LD_PRELOAD & Linux emulation In-Reply-To: from John Fieber at "Oct 16, 98 09:48:14 am" To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:23:14 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, shocking@prth.pgs.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply to John Fieber who wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: > > > What currently seems to be the showstopper is our pipe > > implementation, I'm not sure what exactly is the problem yet. > > Pipes look to be the second-level showstopper for Sybase (the > first was async-io, now fixed). It stops the show because you > cannot do database or transaction log dumps. I haven't had a > chance to look into it yet though... I hope to have a heavy debug session tonight with my alternative pipe implementation (you guessed it the old socketbased one), I'll let you know what I find out... I have a test program that works under linsux and fails under the linuxulator, so I should be able to get some results... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 08:39:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13381 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:39:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13359; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:39:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jfieber@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07844; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:39:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:39:18 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= cc: mike@smith.net.au, shocking@prth.pgs.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LD_PRELOAD & Linux emulation In-Reply-To: <199810161523.RAA05187@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: > I hope to have a heavy debug session tonight with my alternative > pipe implementation (you guessed it the old socketbased one), I'll > let you know what I find out... > I have a test program that works under linsux and fails under the > linuxulator, so I should be able to get some results... Eagerly waiting... :) What happens with Sybase: data and transaction logs dumps are handled by a dedicated backup server process. The backup server handles getting data from the database and then passes the data via a pipe to a subprocess (an exec()'d program) that does the actual i/o to the disk or tape. The link between the backup server and this i/o subprocess fails. I have some ktrace output, but I'm not sure how reliable it is since the i/o process behaves differently when traced than when not traced. -john To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 10:31:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29501 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:31:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29442; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:31:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA05504; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:30:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199810161730.TAA05504@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: LD_PRELOAD & Linux emulation In-Reply-To: from John Fieber at "Oct 16, 98 10:39:18 am" To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:30:30 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, shocking@prth.pgs.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply to John Fieber who wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: > > > I hope to have a heavy debug session tonight with my alternative > > pipe implementation (you guessed it the old socketbased one), I'll > > let you know what I find out... > > I have a test program that works under linsux and fails under the > > linuxulator, so I should be able to get some results... > > Eagerly waiting... :) > > What happens with Sybase: data and transaction logs dumps are > handled by a dedicated backup server process. The backup server > handles getting data from the database and then passes the data > via a pipe to a subprocess (an exec()'d program) that does the > actual i/o to the disk or tape. The link between the backup > server and this i/o subprocess fails. SOunds much like the problem I have with Oracle, the svrmgrl control program forks the oracle instance, then the pipe communication dies on a read. > I have some ktrace output, but I'm not sure how reliable it is > since the i/o process behaves differently when traced than when > not traced. I have a simple test program that works when compiled and run on Linsux, but fails under the emu (it works natively on FreeBSD after the last commit to popen though). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 16:03:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07974 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:03:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07951 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-95.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.95]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA03839 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:02:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA16913 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:25:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199810161125.GAA16913@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: applixware discussion In-reply-to: Message from Gary Roberts of "Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:38:53 +1000." <199810160338.NAA01982@eros.che.curtin.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:25:16 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Anyway, I have the latest applixware release. It's 99 bucks. If you think > it will let you share M$ office files with other M$ office users, it won't. > The filters don't work. In particular, powerpoint and word graphics and > charts get damaged or deleted. So if you're planning on getting > applixware for M$ office interoperation, don't waste your money. Last time I looked there was a $99 version and a $250 version. The difference was the quality of support for translation to foreign formats (ie: Microsoft). I'm on the waiting list for the FreeBSD-native Applixware. Didn't notice any announcement as to the big version yet. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 16 22:00:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28414 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from azazel.async.org (hun-al1-02.ix.netcom.com [205.184.6.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28330 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:59:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ysyi@async.org) Received: from localhost (ysyi@localhost) by azazel.async.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id XAA29429; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:58:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:58:29 -0500 (CDT) From: "Yong S. Yi" To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG cc: David Kelly Subject: Re: applixware discussion In-Reply-To: <199810161125.GAA16913@nospam.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, David Kelly wrote: >> Anyway, I have the latest applixware release. It's 99 bucks. If you think >> it will let you share M$ office files with other M$ office users, it won't. >> The filters don't work. In particular, powerpoint and word graphics and >> charts get damaged or deleted. So if you're planning on getting >> applixware for M$ office interoperation, don't waste your money. > >Last time I looked there was a $99 version and a $250 version. The >difference was the quality of support for translation to foreign >formats (ie: Microsoft). > >I'm on the waiting list for the FreeBSD-native Applixware. Didn't >notice any announcement as to the big version yet. Then again, there's the choice of going to WordPerfect for Linux -- t seems to work fine under FreeBSD. And you can try it out for 15 or 30 days (not too sure) to see if it'll work out for you or not. You can get this from www.sdcorp.com/wplinux/ (kinda messy), and demo from www.sdcorp.com/demos/linux.htm. $84.95 USD for full license doesn't sound too bad... Also, WordPerfect 8 for Linux is in the works, and I think you can download the evaluation beta from their FTP (no luck finding it on their website). I hope *something* works out. Good luck. -- Yong S. Yi Email: ysyi@async.org Phone: 1.256.881.8821 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message