From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 14 06:02:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA09858 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 06:02:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA09853 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 06:02:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from panke.panke.de (anonymous219.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.219]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13038; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:00:15 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by panke.panke.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA00511; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:06:23 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980314130621.53891@panke.de> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:06:21 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Cc: fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/locate/locate concatdb.sh locate.rc mklocatedb.sh updatedb.sh References: <199803081609.IAA00208@freefall.freebsd.org> <199803082028.RAA01287@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199803082028.RAA01287@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>; from Joao Carlos Mendes Luis on Sun, Mar 08, 1998 at 05:28:25PM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1998-03-08 17:28:25 -0300, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > // Modified files: > // usr.bin/locate/locate concatdb.sh locate.rc mklocatedb.sh > // updatedb.sh > // Log: > // Change default temporary directory (TMPDIR) from /tmp to /var/tmp. > // > // Mosts users seems to have a larger /var/tmp partition > // than /tmp - IMHO silly but who cares? > > That's because /tmp is usually a mfs partition. Also, that's why > I would prefer using /tmp instead of /var/tmp for this kind of stuff. > Only once I had problems with /tmp size, but I just gave it more > memory and solved the problem. If we have a working memory file system I will revert this change. The main problem is that the process mount_mfs(8) will only grow and never shrink. -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 14 06:20:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11324 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 06:20:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (friley585.res.iastate.edu [129.186.167.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11318 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 06:20:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley585.res.iastate.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06967; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:19:52 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199803141419.IAA06967@friley585.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Wolfram Schneider cc: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis , fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/locate/locate concatdb.sh locate.rc mklocatedb.sh updatedb.sh In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:06:21 +0100." <19980314130621.53891@panke.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:19:52 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >On 1998-03-08 17:28:25 -0300, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: >> // Modified files: >> // usr.bin/locate/locate concatdb.sh locate.rc mklocatedb.sh >> // updatedb.sh >> // Log: >> // Change default temporary directory (TMPDIR) from /tmp to /var/tmp. >> // >> // Mosts users seems to have a larger /var/tmp partition >> // than /tmp - IMHO silly but who cares? >> >> That's because /tmp is usually a mfs partition. Also, that's why >> I would prefer using /tmp instead of /var/tmp for this kind of stuff. >> Only once I had problems with /tmp size, but I just gave it more >> memory and solved the problem. > >If we have a working memory file system I will revert this >change. The main problem is that the process mount_mfs(8) >will only grow and never shrink. Has anyone looked at NetBSD's md pseudo-device? It provides a generic memory disk which you can put an arbitrary file system onto. Seems to me that it would be better than using a hacked up ffs.. 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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 16 07:09:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28771 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA28763 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:09:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.8.7/8.8.5) id RAA09642; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:09:01 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: <19980316170901.06534@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:09:01 +0200 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NFS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a possibly clueless question; a few days ago I knew nothing about NFS internals, so please forgive my ignorance. I'm trying to learn NFS and VFS internals by debugging a few crash scenarios. How is NFS supposed (if it is) to deal with deadlocks resulting from upcalls? Example: currently it's possible to hang the machine by mounting an NFS-exported fs _locally_, on the same machine, and copying with cp or dd a large (>2Mb) file from a local fs to the "imported" fs. E.g. mount_nfs localhost:/usr /local ; cp LARGEFILE /local The systems timeouts indefinitely in NFS client code; softmounting does not solve the problem. Using NFS 2 does solve the problem. None of the latest John Dyson's fixes addresses this; it seems to be a more fundamental problem. Here's why it happens. As cp keeps issuing write()'s, and they become nfs_write()'s, nfs_write() keeps filling buffer after buffer and calls nfs_doio to write them. Since it's NFS 3, the write is async by default (until commit comes along), and nfs_doio marks the buffer dirty and delayed-write, and sends the write (later biodone will release the buffer onto the dirty queue). The "server", which is the same machine, keeps receiving these writes, and since it's NFS 3 again, it calls bdwrite() instead of bwrite(), also putting them onto the dirty queue. At some point, server's bdwrite() will discover there're too many dirty buffers (numdirtybuffers>=highdirtybuffers, which is 256 by default, thus the approx. 2Mb limit), and will try to flush dirty buffers. However, some of those dirty buffers are _client's_ dirty buffers, and flushing them will try to nfs_commit(). This nfs_commit() will fail because we still haven't returned from the previous nfs_write() (the server needs to flush buffers in order to perform it). We're in a deadlock. If it's a soft mount, after a few minutes nfs_write() will timeout, and nfs_commit() will get a chance to receive its reply from the server; however, it won't: the server is locked trying to nfsrv_commit() - it can't do that before nfsrv_write()->bdwrwite()->flushdirtybuffers() return. The client can't even resend commit since the NFS send window shrinked after all those timeouts. Note that although importing NFS-exported fs locally is bizzarre, the same scenario can happen on two machines which are importing from each other, when there're enough dirty buffers on each. The problem is, formally, that nfs_writerpc() which is on a layer lower than buffercache, leads to an upcall on the server which can lead to the server's calls on the buffercache layer. There may be different possible ways to fix this, but I'm not even sure at this point it's considered a problem, and how bad should it be considered. (I don't have two machines to test a deadlock between two). Note that if you cat LARGEFILE instead of cp or dd, it never hangs. The reason is that cat sends 1024-byte blocks instead of full buffers or more to nfs_write, and nfs_write deals with it by bdwrite()'ing them and not calling nfs_doio() at all - it'll get called later when there's a need to purge the dirty cache. This consideration leads to discovering a _bug_ in nfs_doio: when it both sends a full buffer and puts it into dirty cache, it never checks if there's a need to flush buffers, and numdirtybuffers merrily grows much greater than highdirtybuffers (it can't check really, because it doesn't see highdirtybuffers which is local to vfs_bio.c; it shouldn't ++numdirtybuffers itself but rather should call bdirty (not bdwrite()), which is currently never called by anyone and should also be slightly modified; I can send a patch for this to whomever's interested). -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 17 00:56:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03675 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:56:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03670 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:56:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id IAA10720; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:53:59 GMT Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:53:58 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Chris Csanady cc: Wolfram Schneider , Joao Carlos Mendes Luis , fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/locate/locate concatdb.sh locate.rc mklocatedb.sh updatedb.sh In-Reply-To: <199803141419.IAA06967@friley585.res.iastate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Chris Csanady wrote: > >If we have a working memory file system I will revert this > >change. The main problem is that the process mount_mfs(8) > >will only grow and never shrink. > > Has anyone looked at NetBSD's md pseudo-device? It provides a generic > memory disk which you can put an arbitrary file system onto. Seems to > me that it would be better than using a hacked up ffs.. A ram disk would be ok, but it would also be nice to have a memfs that could have it's pages swapped out like mfs and not having to decide the size of the disk in advance. Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 19 12:30:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02391 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:30:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02385 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:30:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06749 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:30:43 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA08591; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:30:38 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980319213037.47691@follo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:30:37 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [thorpej@nas.nasa.gov: The death of vfs_conf.c] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Should we be doing something similar to this? ----- Forwarded message from Jason Thorpe ----- Message-Id: <199802171823.KAA16112@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG Subject: The death of vfs_conf.c From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:10:20 -0800 Hi folks... So, today I sat down and finally finished some work I started over a year ago to nuke vfs_conf.c. Basically, the round of changes to config(8) that added the "file-system" keyword were geared towards making the list of statically-included file systems generated by config(8), with no need for icky #ifdef's. The changes attached below basically do: (1) Remove vfssw[] and vfs_opv_descs[]. vfssw[] has been replaced with vfs_list, and a generated table vfs_list_initial[] which vfsinit() uses to build vfs_list a boot time. (2) In support of (1), struct vfsops now has a LIST_ENTRY and a pointer to a NULL-terminated array of struct vnodeopv_desc *'s. (3) vfs_init.c has been modified to make the 2nd part of (2) possible, and also to build the initial vfs_list. (4) vfs_establish() and vfs_disestablish() - new functions for adding and removing file systems from the kernel's vfs_list. Used by LKM code and vfsinit(). (5) All places that referenced vfssw[] have been cleaned up to use the most appropriate interface for that situation. (6) LKMs have been cleaned up, and fixed. (Previously, file systems which supported FIFOs or special files had broken LKMs.) (7) [ Not shown ] Delete vfs_conf.c If there are no objections, I'll commit these as soon as I've had a chance to test all of the LKMs (probably Tuesday evening, PST). Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 415 428 6939 ----- End forwarded message ----- Full set of patches deleted; these are 50k. Available on request. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 19 12:46:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05510 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:46:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05503 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:46:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br) Received: from navigator.voga.com.br (navigator.voga.com.br [200.239.39.6]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA25080 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:45:31 -0300 Received: by navigator.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 032565CC.007203F3 ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:45:21 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA From: "Daniel Sobral" To: fs@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <032565CC.0071BBAD.00@navigator.voga.com.br> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:45:15 -0300 Subject: Stackable filesystems? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey, Terry, one more filesystem to your list of "future work on stackable fs": version control fs. Would people prefer something simple like vms or a fully-featured cvs-like system? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 19 13:10:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08237 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:10:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08168 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:09:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07209; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:56:11 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA08749; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:56:10 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980319215610.09944@follo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:56:10 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Daniel Sobral , fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems? References: <032565CC.0071BBAD.00@navigator.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <032565CC.0071BBAD.00@navigator.voga.com.br>; from Daniel Sobral on Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 05:45:15PM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 05:45:15PM -0300, Daniel Sobral wrote: > Hey, Terry, one more filesystem to your list of "future work on stackable > fs": version control fs. Would people prefer something simple like vms or a > fully-featured cvs-like system? Both. The latter should preferably run as a portal, though, and will need a lot of work to get a good design. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 19 13:10:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08256 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:10:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08167 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:09:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA04335; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:01:23 +0100 (CET) To: "Daniel Sobral" cc: fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:45:15 -0300." <032565CC.0071BBAD.00@navigator.voga.com.br> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:01:23 +0100 Message-ID: <4333.890341283@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <032565CC.0071BBAD.00@navigator.voga.com.br>, "Daniel Sobral" writes : >Hey, Terry, one more filesystem to your list of "future work on stackable >fs": version control fs. Would people prefer something simple like vms or a >fully-featured cvs-like system? I would hate it. Just like I hate Clearcase... This is exactly the kind of thing you should NOT do in the kernel... -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "Drink MONO-tonic, it goes down but it will NEVER come back up!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 19 15:03:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22532 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:03:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22522 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:03:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25983; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:03:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd025960; Thu Mar 19 16:03:12 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15187; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:03:09 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803192303.QAA15187@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems? To: Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br (Daniel Sobral) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:03:05 +0000 (GMT) Cc: fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <032565CC.0071BBAD.00@navigator.voga.com.br> from "Daniel Sobral" at Mar 19, 98 05:45:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hey, Terry, one more filesystem to your list of "future work on stackable > fs": version control fs. Would people prefer something simple like vms or a > fully-featured cvs-like system? VMS version control is problematic. It requires that patter expansion be done in the kernel, not in the shell. THere's a lot of other good reasons to do this, like not pushing non-matching file names over the user/kernel boundry unnecessarily. The problem with doing this is shell globbing. Shells expand patterns before they would be givent to the FS. This would be a significant deviation from the way It Has Always Been. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 19 17:35:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21001 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:35:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20934 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:34:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA18180; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:34:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:34:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Terry Lambert cc: Daniel Sobral , fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems? In-Reply-To: <199803192303.QAA15187@usr09.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > VMS version control is problematic. It requires that patter expansion > be done in the kernel, not in the shell. THere's a lot of other good > reasons to do this, like not pushing non-matching file names over the > user/kernel boundry unnecessarily. > > The problem with doing this is shell globbing. Shells expand patterns > before they would be givent to the FS. Which would mean that the FS would look no different to a shell that wasn't coded to take advantage of it. > This would be a significant deviation from the way It Has Always Been. I'm assuming that the versioned file system and the DCL clone would go hand in hand... :) /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Mar 20 01:49:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA27639 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 01:49:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy-bsb.gns.com.br (aEmuibloo3DgRRG9T+cBOD60u7DScAgh@srv1-bsb.GNS.com.br [200.239.56.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA27630 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 01:49:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@gns.com.br) Received: (qmail 7590 invoked by uid 1147); 20 Mar 1998 09:43:39 -0000 Received: from srv1-bsb.gns.com.br (200.239.56.1) by proxy-bsb.gns.com.br with SMTP; 20 Mar 1998 09:43:39 -0000 Received: (from mail@localhost) by srv1-bsb.gns.com.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07582; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 06:43:39 -0300 (EST) Received: from dl0235-bsb.gns.com.br(200.239.56.235) by srv1-bsb.gns.com.br via smap (V2.0) id xma007578; Fri, 20 Mar 98 06:42:59 -0300 Received: (from dcs@localhost) by daniel.sobral (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA06470; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:32:22 -0300 (EST) From: "Daniel C. Sobral" Message-Id: <199803200132.WAA06470@daniel.sobral> Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems? In-Reply-To: <4333.890341283@critter.freebsd.dk> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Mar 19, 98 10:01:23 pm" To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:32:22 -0300 (EST) Disclaimer: Klaatu Barada Nikto! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Unheedful of thy elder's warnings, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >Hey, Terry, one more filesystem to your list of "future work on stackable > >fs": version control fs. Would people prefer something simple like vms or a > >fully-featured cvs-like system? > > I would hate it. > > Just like I hate Clearcase... > > This is exactly the kind of thing you should NOT do in the kernel... People, of course, might differ. The question, though, is not if it should be _in_ the kernel, but if it should be (ie. would useful as) a fs. There is a difference, you know... -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@gns.com.br Four thousand different MAGNATES, MOGULS & NABOBS are romping in my gothic solarium!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Mar 20 01:49:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA27659 for freebsd-fs-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 01:49:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy-bsb.gns.com.br (dRbW+WhCp0vNCwKd//9YkSPK1ZhiL2cO@srv1-bsb.GNS.com.br [200.239.56.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA27631 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 01:49:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@gns.com.br) Received: (qmail 7589 invoked by uid 1147); 20 Mar 1998 09:43:39 -0000 Received: from srv1-bsb.gns.com.br (200.239.56.1) by proxy-bsb.gns.com.br with SMTP; 20 Mar 1998 09:43:39 -0000 Received: (from mail@localhost) by srv1-bsb.gns.com.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07581; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 06:43:39 -0300 (EST) Received: from dl0235-bsb.gns.com.br(200.239.56.235) by srv1-bsb.gns.com.br via smap (V2.0) id xma007577; Fri, 20 Mar 98 06:42:57 -0300 Received: (from dcs@localhost) by daniel.sobral (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA06430; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:26:16 -0300 (EST) From: "Daniel C. Sobral" Message-Id: <199803200126.WAA06430@daniel.sobral> Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems? In-Reply-To: <19980319215610.09944@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Mar 19, 98 09:56:10 pm" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:26:16 -0300 (EST) Disclaimer: Klaatu Barada Nikto! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Unheedful of thy elder's warnings, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > Hey, Terry, one more filesystem to your list of "future work on stackable > > fs": version control fs. Would people prefer something simple like vms or a > > fully-featured cvs-like system? > > Both. The latter should preferably run as a portal, though, and will > need a lot of work to get a good design. Actually, I'm waiting for Terry to implement the NEFS (name-escape fs) he mentioned, so I can just build a translation between cvs and name scapes upon that... :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@gns.com.br SQUATCHO: The button at the top of a baseball cap. -- "Sniglets", Rich Hall & Friends To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message