From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 00:16:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA10924 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:16:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10918 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:16:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11966; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:15:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199801040815.DAA11966@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Process wedge in 'inode' In-Reply-To: <199801040636.RAA00409@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Jan 4, 98 05:06:00 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:15:58 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Mike Smith said: > > Just simultaneously checking out two copies of the kernel source using > 'cvs co sys', I have an interesting situation: > > kingsford:~>ps axlwww > UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND > 1000 1359 1348 1 -14 0 1356 864 inode D+ v1 0:06.84 cvs co sys > 1000 1366 160 4 -14 0 1356 812 inode D+ v2 0:06.77 cvs co sys > > Neither process is responding to signals, and neither can be killed. > The rest of the system is running as normal... > > This is -current as of 971220. > Yep, as I have said, I broke -current, and *please* expect it to problematical. The issues that I have been working are very complex and tedious, but the end result will be advantageous beyond even what I had expected. I am within a few hours/days of commiting the corrected code, and please back up to code before my commit. I do have test suites that expose the problems, and any usage of the erroneous code will lead to nowhere except frustration. You'll have nothing but trouble with the code, including accumulation of disk blocks, crashes, and file corruption. Please do not use -current right now. I have been working 18Hrs/day on the stuff, even forgoing dates with an extremely attractive female friend of mine, and the approach that I am taking is the shortest path to a quality result. I had posted a notice on the -current mailing list, once the problems were discovered. I'll post a notice on the -current mailing list when the code is fixed. Until then, please do not try to use -current, unless you plan to re-newfs your filesystem anyway :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 00:30:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11291 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:30:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from core.acroal.com (firewall0.acroal.com [209.24.61.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11231 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:28:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by core.acroal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA12519 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:28:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:28:20 -0800 (PST) From: FreeBSD Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: read audio from atapi cd: success! In-Reply-To: <199801040730.IAA08800@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk My cheap ass Goldstar GCD-R580B 8 speed supports the long_read operation (windows audio crap). You can get them at egghead I think, just look for the box that say "Linux Compatible" on the front. On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Oliver Fromme wrote: > In list.freebsd-hackers you wrote (3 Jan 1998 15:02:07 +0100): > > Well, I managed to put together some code to read audio data from > > ATAPI CDs :) > > Ok. In order to add ATAPI support to tosha, I'll have to buy > an ATAPI CD-ROM drive, I fear... Which of them do support > reading of digital audio? I'd preferably like to hear about > modern drives that can actually be bought. Knowing that some > old doublespeed drive supports it doesn't help, since I won't > be able to buy it anywhere, unfortunately... ;-) > > Regards > Oliver > > PS: If someone wants to reply by private mail, please use the > address "olli@incogni.to". > > PPS: I wouldn't mind if someone wants to donate a CD-ROM drive > (used or new) for free. ;-) > > -- > Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18-61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany > (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 00:52:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA12097 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:52:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA12083 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:52:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA17620; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:29:42 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199801040729.IAA17620@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: read audio from atapi cd: success! To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:29:42 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199801040730.IAA08800@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> from "Oliver Fromme" at Jan 4, 98 08:30:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Ok. In order to add ATAPI support to tosha, I'll have to buy > an ATAPI CD-ROM drive, I fear... Which of them do support > reading of digital audio? I'd preferably like to hear about > modern drives that can actually be bought. Knowing that some > old doublespeed drive supports it doesn't help, since I won't > be able to buy it anywhere, unfortunately... ;-) Let me (and possibly other hackers) work on this to provide better support. I have only tested partially the code on a CDU-55E and CDU331 (both from SONY) and they behave differently, the IDE bus freezes every now and then, etc. When the code is more stable I will try it on more disks to see what capabilities they have. As for a TOSHA port it will be probably trivial to add a small piece of code which invokes the new ioctl to your function readsectors(). This is actually one of the first things I want to do when I have the code up and running... Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 01:14:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA13108 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:14:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cc.uq.edu.au (root@dingo.cc.uq.edu.au [130.102.2.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA12908 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:09:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shocking@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au) Received: from zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au [203.101.242.9]) by dingo.cc.uq.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12960 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:08:56 +1000 (GMT+1000) Received: from zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00504 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:18:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from shocking@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au) Message-Id: <199801040918.TAA00504@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Memory bandwith and an interesting article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:18:38 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It basically talks about how the ordering of memory reads can affect the read rate of Intel 486/pentium CPUs., becuase of the read buffer's inability to support mutiple outstanding read transactions. http://www.intelligentfirm.com/membench/index.shtml Stephen From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 01:16:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA13170 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:16:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA13166 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:16:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199801040916.BAA13166@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA147065369; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:16:09 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: SMP-able chips? To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:16:09 +1100 (EDT) Cc: perlsta@sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Jan 2, 98 12:05:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In some mail from Chuck Robey, sie said: > > On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Does anyone know if any other x86 chip will work in a 2 processor > > enviornment? > > like the AMD K6 or the Cyrix M2 > > I can't answer the second question, but as to the first, all motherboards > available today use the Intel Apic design, not the OpenApic design that > the cpus other than Intel implement. The meaning to that is, if it's not > an Intel CPU, you're not going to run SMP with it. Does this include th ASUS motherboard which takes the CPU daughterboards ? Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 01:50:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA14478 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:50:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA14474 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11609; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:49:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801040949.BAA11609@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Stephen Hocking cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory bandwith and an interesting article In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:18:38 +1000." <199801040918.TAA00504@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 01:49:44 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > It basically talks about how the ordering of memory reads can affect > the read rate of Intel 486/pentium CPUs., becuase of the read buffer's > inability to support mutiple outstanding read transactions. > > http://www.intelligentfirm.com/membench/index.shtml > > Stephen > > Well, if someone decides to spend $20 for membench and can explain exactly how we can improve memory read / writes I will be delighted to hear about it 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 02:14:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA16184 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 02:14:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA16162; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 02:14:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id LAA09862; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:14:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA17951; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:05:21 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980104110521.14399@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:05:21 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: Greg Lehey Cc: Brian Somers , John-Mark Gurney , freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/5404: slXX slip (tun & ppp) interfaces always point to point Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <199801010130.RAA10049@hub.freebsd.org> <199801011325.NAA17803@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <19980102105504.61189@lemis.com> <19980102102027.41384@uriah.heep.sax.de> <19980104174838.41538@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19980104174838.41538@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sun, Jan 04, 1998 at 05:48:38PM +1030 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > I had a discussion about this with a bloke here in Adelaide a couple > of months ago. He runs a large ISP, and he came up with some > plausible reason, but unfortunately I've forgotten the details. It > had to do with Microslop: they use broadcasts a lot, and this would abuse :) > seem to indicate that they expected broadcasts on a /26 subnet, or at > least were prepared to respond to them. So this netmask crap might apply for M$ then -- they still have a long way to be internet-ready. For us, an interface is either IFF_BROADCAST, or IFF_POINTOPOINT, but not both. Thus, the netmask and broadcast addresses of a p2p interface are irrelevant. (If you think about it, both, broadcasting and p2p are mutually exclusive by logic. p2p is always unicasting to just one peer.) > It sounds like you're saying that PPP shouldn't be allowed to set the > default route automatically when the link comes up. No, i was really telling that there should be _only_ the implied host route automatically installed when upping a p2p interface, but no other route. ISTR Brian suggested a second route should be derived from the (bogus) netmask, and installed {too or instead}. So per Brian's suggestion: ifconfig foobar0 1.2.3.4 1.4.5.6 netmask 0xffffff00 would have implied route add 1.4.5.6 -iface foobar0 route add -net 1.4.5.0 -netmask 0xffffff00 1.4.5.6 while the existing behaviour (and what i think is the Right Thing) is only the first of both routes. Installing a default route is always done separately anyway. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 02:24:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA16767 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 02:24:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA16758 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 02:24:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA11922 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 02:23:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Java Apps? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 02:23:56 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Curious, are people using FreeBSD to develop Java apps ? >From my brief exposure to jdk1.1.5 , Swing, Beans, etc.., it seems that there is enough critical infra-structure to create useful apps also there are plenty of lessons there in OO methodology -- actually Java looks more like a cross-road of OO techniques. This is the have been trying to solve for FreeBSD : Provide or highlight a technology which people can actually use to develop applications. My first venture was to port X to 386bsd 0.0 , then porting of Inteviews, and later on tcl . Must say that neither of those technologies have been sufficient or catalysts for developing applications. So is Java the technology which will launch application development in FreeBSD?? When I am more up to speed on Java , my test target application will be a graphical front-end for my Pilot 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 03:51:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA19803 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:51:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA19777 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:51:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id MAA11405 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:51:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA18280; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:39:08 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:39:08 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199801041139.MAA18280@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Organization: Private BSD site, Dresden X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E References: <19980104102759.11459@lemis.com> From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Subject: Re: Why dump to /var?? X-Original-Newsgroups: local.freebsd.hackers To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote: > Well, one reason not to do this change is the possible symbolic link, > which makes it possible to put /var/crash on some other file system. You could even mount a separate /var/crash. ;-) > The other thing is that savecore almost invariably saves to > /var/crash, so it doesn't add much value. Why? /var/crash always has to be provided as an argument to savecore, there's no reason it could not point to something else. HOWEVER, if you move it somewhere else, make pretty sure you install a `minfree' file. The default installation does this in the /var/crash case (and savecore now finally obeyes it correctly). >> Anyone? Any why not send this error msg to syslogd? > > It's not running at this point. It should be running at this point, i'm going to commit this change. The only case where it's perhaps more useful the other way 'round is a 4 MB only machine (since starting syslogd might clobber the coredump in the swap partition then), but these presumably require a lot of personal tweaking anyway these days, and it's not longer useful to make the default behaviour dependant on a low-mem setup. > Yes, there is some merit in the idea of starting syslogd earlier and > logging *all* the startup messages. There's nothing more except savecore attempting to log anything earlier. Also remember, you need a writable /var before starting syslogd, so syslogging something like the fsck messages is virtually impossible (with the current scheme). I think Poul-Henning has once been playing with a true memory filesystem, this could provide a workaround for this early stage (by offering some pseudo-disk storage that can be reclaimed later). As always: context diffs welcome. ;-) You can argue a lot about what might be better or not, the devil's always in the detail, and playing with this part of the system will quickly turn out to be more than a weekend-only project if you do it right. So it's not whether changes in this area are acceptable or not, but whether someone can be found actually doing these (as opposed to _only_ talking about them). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 04:39:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA22297 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:39:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA22290 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:39:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-15.ts-16.nyc.idt.net [169.132.101.87]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA26425; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:40:55 GMT Message-Id: <199801040840.IAA26425@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: , "Amancio Hasty" Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 07:11:02 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At my school: SUNY Tech in New York we use FreeBSD as the programming enviornment for most of our classes, including java, the current port 1.1.5 is awesome so far, the first time i've been able to get the java SDK working on my box at home. the only problem i see honestly, is lack of a visual GUI builder (if one exists please point me there) -Alfred ---------- > From: Amancio Hasty > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: FreeBSD Java Apps? > Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 5:23 AM > > > Curious, are people using FreeBSD to develop Java apps ? > > >From my brief exposure to jdk1.1.5 , Swing, Beans, etc.., it seems > that there is enough critical infra-structure to create useful apps > also there are plenty of lessons there in OO methodology -- > actually Java looks more like a cross-road of OO techniques. > > This is the have been trying to solve for FreeBSD : > Provide or highlight a technology which people can actually use > to develop applications. > > My first venture was to port X to 386bsd 0.0 , then > porting of Inteviews, and later on tcl . Must say that neither of > those technologies have been sufficient or catalysts for > developing applications. > > So is Java the technology which will launch application development > in FreeBSD?? > > When I am more up to speed on Java , my test target application will be > a graphical front-end for my Pilot 8) > > Cheers, > Amancio > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 04:41:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA22401 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:41:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peedub.muc.de (ns1027.munich.netsurf.de [195.180.235.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA22397 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:41:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garyj@peedub.muc.de) Received: from peedub.muc.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peedub.muc.de (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA00536 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:41:51 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199801041241.NAA00536@peedub.muc.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Process wedge in 'inode' Reply-To: Gary Jennejohn In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 03:15:58 EST." <199801040815.DAA11966@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 13:41:51 +0100 From: Gary Jennejohn Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "John S. Dyson" writes: >I had posted a notice on the -current mailing list, once the problems were >discovered. I'll post a notice on the -current mailing list when the >code is fixed. Until then, please do not try to use -current, unless you >plan to re-newfs your filesystem anyway :-). > this seems a little extreme, John. I'm running a -current kernel from today with $Id: ufs_readwrite.c,v 1.38 1997/12/29 01:03:50 dyson Exp $ and it's just fine. The worst breakage was fixed in 1.37 to ufs_readwrite.c, seems to me. Just my experience. --- Gary Jennejohn Home - garyj@muc.de Work - garyj@fkr.dec.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 05:03:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA24220 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:03:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA24169 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:03:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA00993; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:03:39 -0800 (PST) To: "Alfred Perlstein" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Amancio Hasty" Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 07:11:02 EST." <199801040840.IAA26425@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 05:03:39 -0800 Message-ID: <989.883919019@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > the only problem i see honestly, is lack of a visual GUI builder (if one > exists please point me there) /usr/ports/devel/SpecTcl Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 05:55:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28616 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:55:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28612 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:55:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (beBop) id AAA01718; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:21:32 +1030 (CST) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:21:32 +1030 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199801041351.AAA01718@al.imforei.apana.org.au> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971224 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In article <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> you wrote: > When I am more up to speed on Java , my test target application will be > a graphical front-end for my Pilot 8) Grin. Now you mention that, and with all this enthusiasm about the "Sparc Port", I'll have to look at porting FreeBSD to the Apple Newton MessagePad 2000! *hehehe* Peter -- Peter Childs - finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for PGP public key We are FreeBSD, resistance is related to current and voltage... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 06:09:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA29757 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 06:09:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from grunt.vl.net.ua (daemon@grunt.vl.net.ua [193.124.76.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA29485 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 06:04:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from news@grunt.vl.net.ua) Received: from news by grunt.vl.net.ua with local (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xopnc-00053r-00; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:09:04 +0200 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: diff: Additional login capability Date: 4 Jan 1998 15:09:03 +0200 Message-ID: <68o1lf$ivu$1@grunt.vl.net.ua> X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970930; i386 FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE] X-Via: News-To-Mail v1.0 From: Vladimir Litovka Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello! There is diff to /usr/src/usr.bin/login below. It adds shell arguments processing to login, i.e. you can use arguments in shell field of /etc/passwd. For example: doka::1001:1001::0:0:Vladimir Litovka:/home/doka:/usr/local/bin/bash -r uusys::2001:66::0:0:UUCP for sys:/var/spool/uucppublic:/etc/uucp/uudo sys This ability must be activated by defining LOGIN_SHELL_ARGS in Makefile (this already done in diff) Please, mail your comments to doka@grunt.vl.net.ua Thank you. ============= Cut here ============== diff -c -r login/Makefile login.new/Makefile *** login/Makefile Sun Jan 4 12:37:47 1998 --- login.new/Makefile Sun Jan 4 14:28:29 1998 *************** *** 10,15 **** --- 10,17 ---- #Warning: requires src/libexec/login_* auth modules #LC_AUTH=-DLOGIN_CAP_AUTH CFLAGS+=-DSKEY -DLOGIN_ACCESS -DLOGALL -DLOGIN_CAP $(LC_AUTH) + # Comment out to disable shell arguments processing + CFLAGS+=-DLOGIN_SHELL_ARGS .if defined(KLOGIN_PARANOID) CFLAGS+=-DKLOGIN_PARANOID diff -c -r login/README login.new/README *** login/README Sun Jan 4 12:37:47 1998 --- login.new/README Sun Jan 4 14:24:35 1998 *************** *** 1,3 **** --- 1,13 ---- + This login has shell arguments processing. To activate this capability you + must define LOGIN_SHELL_ARGS and safely use arguments in shell field of + /etc/passwd + + For example: + + doka::1001:1001::0:0:Vladimir Litovka:/home/doka:/usr/local/bin/bash -r + + -Vladimir Litovka + This login has additional functionalities. They are all based on (part of) Wietse Venema's logdaemon package. diff -c -r login/login.c login.new/login.c *** login/login.c Sun Jan 4 12:37:47 1998 --- login.new/login.c Sun Jan 4 12:25:05 1998 *************** *** 172,177 **** --- 172,180 ---- #ifdef SKEY int permit_passwd = 0; #endif /* SKEY */ + #ifdef LOGIN_SHELL_ARGS + char **ap, *av[256]; + #endif (void)signal(SIGALRM, timedout); (void)alarm(timeout); *************** *** 800,806 **** --- 803,822 ---- tbuf[0] = '-'; (void)strcpy(tbuf + 1, (p = strrchr(pwd->pw_shell, '/')) ? p + 1 : pwd->pw_shell); + #ifdef LOGIN_SHELL_ARGS + av[0]=tbuf; + if (p = strpbrk(tbuf, " \t")) { + *p = NULL; /* Cut argv[0] */ + /* Omit shell and start at first argument */ + p = strpbrk(shell, " \t"); + *p++ = NULL; /* Cut arguments (for execvp), jump to next char */ + for (ap = &av[1]; (*ap = strsep(&p, " \t")) != NULL; ) + if (**ap != NULL) ap++; + } + execvp(shell, av); + #else execlp(shell, tbuf, 0); + #endif err(1, "%s", shell); } ============= Cut here ============== -- Vladimir Litovka , hostmaster of vl.net.ua ---------------- Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 09:24:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08487 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:24:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA08474 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:24:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA18075; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:01:09 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199801041601.RAA18075@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: wd/wcd/atapi problems To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:01:09 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Since I have been looking at this code recently... there is a number of problems in the wd/wcd/atapi drivers, and I am wondering if someone is looking at them. A brief list follows: (wd) kernel looping at high priority this just happened to me: I had a partition mounted on wd2, and the disk went idle. Then I did "umount /mnt", and while the disk was spinning up (and I got a wd2: interrupt timeout) the system had become completely unresponsive (mouse disappears, etc.) I only suspect that the reason is some code spinning at high priority, but haven't investigated further. Fortunately the wd driver has a watchdog... (wcd) no watchdog function as the title says, there is probably no watchdog on wcd (ATAPI) units. This is problematic since problems on a unit will block the whole controller (including the primary disk on most of my machines), and ATAPI implementations tend to be not all the same (plus, our driver is certainly not perfect: e.g. with a stock 2.2.1 atapi a dd from a data CD often hangs, depending on how badly i screwed up the drive with the previous kernel; I have to cycle power to bring the device back to regular operation. I am not even sure if the watchdog in the wd driver is implemented properly. A comment in the code says it should be per controller, not per drive, and there might be some strange interaction when a drive(r) is not informed of a reset issued to its controller because of a timeout on the other drive. (atapi) potentially long (3ms) delays in atapi_wait_cmd this routine, called from wdintr, in some cases might take such a long time waiting to send the packet command. Maybe modern drives are fast, but I was wondering, is there a way to temporarily release the cpu within a interrupt driver ? Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 09:37:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA09729 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:37:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09717 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:37:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.4) with UUCP id RAA19768; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:34:29 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:22:04 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199801040840.IAA26425@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:23:23 +0000 To: "Alfred Perlstein" From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? Cc: , "Amancio Hasty" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 12:11 pm +0000 4/1/98, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >At my school: SUNY Tech in New York we use FreeBSD as the programming >enviornment for most of our classes, including java, the current port 1.1.5 >is awesome so far, the first time i've been able to get the java SDK >working on my box at home. > >the only problem i see honestly, is lack of a visual GUI builder (if one >exists please point me there) http://www.ist.co.uk/visaj/ but it's not free. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 09:46:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA10506 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA10478 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:46:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA32720 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:46:09 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA00895; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:46:52 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199801041346.OAA00895@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Process wedge in 'inode' To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:46:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801040815.DAA11966@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jan 4, 98 03:15:58 am X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As John S. Dyson wrote... > Mike Smith said: > > > > Just simultaneously checking out two copies of the kernel source using > > 'cvs co sys', I have an interesting situation: > > > > kingsford:~>ps axlwww > > UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND > > 1000 1359 1348 1 -14 0 1356 864 inode D+ v1 0:06.84 cvs co sys > > 1000 1366 160 4 -14 0 1356 812 inode D+ v2 0:06.77 cvs co sys > > > > Neither process is responding to signals, and neither can be killed. > > The rest of the system is running as normal... > > > > This is -current as of 971220. > > > Yep, as I have said, I broke -current, and *please* expect it to problematical. > The issues that I have been working are very complex and tedious, but the > end result will be advantageous beyond even what I had expected. I am > within a few hours/days of commiting the corrected code, and please back up to > code before my commit. I do have test suites that expose the problems, and > any usage of the erroneous code will lead to nowhere except frustration. > > You'll have nothing but trouble with the code, including accumulation of > disk blocks, crashes, and file corruption. Please do not use -current right > now. I have been working 18Hrs/day on the stuff, even forgoing dates with > an extremely attractive female friend of mine, and the approach that I Oh oh... This is really getting out of hand... ;-) (could not resist..) _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' ---------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net]BSD Unix ------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 10:08:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12039 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:08:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA11590; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:02:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA04727; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:29:33 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199801041629.QAA04727@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Joerg Wunsch cc: Greg Lehey , Brian Somers , John-Mark Gurney , freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/5404: slXX slip (tun & ppp) interfaces always point to point In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:05:21 +0100." <19980104110521.14399@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 16:29:33 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [.....] > other route. ISTR Brian suggested a second route should be derived > from the (bogus) netmask, and installed {too or instead}. So per > Brian's suggestion: > > ifconfig foobar0 1.2.3.4 1.4.5.6 netmask 0xffffff00 > > would have implied > > route add 1.4.5.6 -iface foobar0 > route add -net 1.4.5.0 -netmask 0xffffff00 1.4.5.6 > > while the existing behaviour (and what i think is the Right Thing) is > only the first of both routes. Not quite. I was suggesting that instead of the first, we have the second, or in fact route add 1.2.3.4 -netmask 0xffffff00 1.4.5.6 If you specify a 0xffffffff netmask, you get the same as the existing stuff *always* does. The real purpose, as you've already suggested, is that you get the associated broadcast address. With this broadcast address, all sorts of other things work (timed, rwhod, nmbd etc.), assuming that you've got a proxy arp setup on the other end. Of course, this implies that the destination address isn't actually required - as with a real network. So, what if we had ifconfig tun0 inet 1.2.3.4 netmask 0xffffff00 (note the lack of a dst address). This would mean that we could specify tunX (or slX or pppX) as being a non-point-to-point. The automatic route would be created exactly as with networks. So, to summarise (and refine my original suggestion), I think we should be allowed to specify *either* a dst address *or* a netmask. If both are specified, you get no netmask - as things currently work. Whaddaya think ? [.....] > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 10:12:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12424 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:12:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12347 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:12:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA04242; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:12:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA19119; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:12:08 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:12:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199801041812.LAA19119@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Curious, are people using FreeBSD to develop Java apps ? I just 'ported' OrbixWeb3.0 to FreeBSD yesterday, and my company uses Java/CORBA for our primary line of business. My results convinced my boss to upgrade his older FreeBSD 2.1 box to 2.2 so he could do Java development on it, so I'm in the process of upgrading it. IMHO, the *biggest* problem with the current JDK is using LessTif. I have *nothing* but problems all over the place when I use the lessTif version, but if I replace the LessTif shared library with the Motif shared library most of those things work again. Unfortunately, other things break with linkage errors. What I'd like to see if the diffs so I can roll my own release with Motif, and then possibly figure out a way to release it publically, since the bug are easy to run into with any significant applications. > >From my brief exposure to jdk1.1.5 , Swing, Beans, etc.., it seems > that there is enough critical infra-structure to create useful apps > also there are plenty of lessons there in OO methodology -- I am very pro-Java, and this is after using it consistanly for 13 months solid. The last 9 months has been full-time Java programming, and while I dislike the 'Java of the day' problems that plague our software and the inability of 3rd party vendors to keep up, I do like the direction they are headed. > So is Java the technology which will launch application development > in FreeBSD?? I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 10:51:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14777 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:51:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14744; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:51:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id TAA17725; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:51:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA19192; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:31:38 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980104193137.01479@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:31:37 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: Brian Somers Cc: Greg Lehey , John-Mark Gurney , freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/5404: slXX slip (tun & ppp) interfaces always point to point Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <19980104110521.14399@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199801041629.QAA04727@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199801041629.QAA04727@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>; from Brian Somers on Sun, Jan 04, 1998 at 04:29:33PM +0000 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Brian Somers wrote: > Not quite. I was suggesting that instead of the first, we have the > second, or in fact > > route add 1.2.3.4 -netmask 0xffffff00 1.4.5.6 > > If you specify a 0xffffffff netmask, you get the same as the existing > stuff *always* does. However, since most people don't bother messing with the netmask on p2p interfaces at all (why should they), they'll always catch the default netmask, so the above will violate the principle of least surprise for them (configurations that used to work would no longer work). > The real purpose, as you've already suggested, is that you get the > associated broadcast address. With this broadcast address, all sorts > of other things work (timed, rwhod, nmbd etc.), assuming that you've > got a proxy arp setup on the other end. Proxy arp is a hack. We shouldn't encourage using hacks. If people are interested in using hacks, they should have more work to be done than those who are interested in clean setups. (Sure, like all hacks, there are situations why proxy arp can be useful. vfork() is another example of a useful hack. Recommending proxy arp as a general method is ugly. Setup correct IP routing instead.) > Of course, this implies that the destination address isn't actually > required - as with a real network. `Real' networks have broadcast addresses, but aren't point-to-point. `Real' networks can't share the same local adress for different interfaces, p2p interfaces can. `Real' networks have native broadcasting, p2p interfaces don't. p2p interfaces always connect to just one remote address, that's why they are called by this name. ;) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 11:05:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15644 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:05:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA15633 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:04:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xov8i-0004g7-00; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:51:12 -0800 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:50:31 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP-able chips? In-Reply-To: <199801040916.BAA13166@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Darren Reed wrote: > > I can't answer the second question, but as to the first, all motherboards > > available today use the Intel Apic design, not the OpenApic design that > > the cpus other than Intel implement. The meaning to that is, if it's not > > an Intel CPU, you're not going to run SMP with it. > > Does this include th ASUS motherboard which takes the CPU daughterboards ? Definitely. Perhaps ASUS could make a daughtercard with OpenAPIC design (or is the APIC on the motherboard not the daughtercard?). > Darren Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 11:19:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16492 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:19:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16448 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:19:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA10336; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:17:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:17:04 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Darren Reed cc: perlsta@sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP-able chips? In-Reply-To: <199801040916.EAA10365@po2.glue.umd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Darren Reed wrote: > In some mail from Chuck Robey, sie said: > > > > On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know if any other x86 chip will work in a 2 processor > > > enviornment? > > > like the AMD K6 or the Cyrix M2 > > > > I can't answer the second question, but as to the first, all motherboards > > available today use the Intel Apic design, not the OpenApic design that > > the cpus other than Intel implement. The meaning to that is, if it's not > > an Intel CPU, you're not going to run SMP with it. > > Does this include th ASUS motherboard which takes the CPU daughterboards ? As far as I am aware, there is not one single motherboard on the market today that implements the OpenApic. I haven't done a thorough check recently, but understand that the OpenApic and the Intel Apic aren't compatible ... if you were a motherboard manufacturer (this only applies to SMP) which would YOU build in? There was a nice paper from IBM that described the differences, but I lost it 3 months back when my main system dived on me. > > Darren > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 11:45:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA18342 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:45:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18327 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:45:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13311; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:45:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801041945.LAA13311@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:12:08 MST." <199801041812.LAA19119@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:45:15 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Curious, are people using FreeBSD to develop Java apps ? > > I just 'ported' OrbixWeb3.0 to FreeBSD yesterday, and my company uses > Java/CORBA for our primary line of business. My results convinced my > boss to upgrade his older FreeBSD 2.1 box to 2.2 so he could do Java > development on it, so I'm in the process of upgrading it. > > IMHO, the *biggest* problem with the current JDK is using LessTif. I Thats a temporary problem and as you well stated as soon as the diffs come out we will be to get over it . > > So is Java the technology which will launch application development > > in FreeBSD?? > > I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications > to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were > developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop > applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging > all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. Curious, why do you think people don't like developing applications for FreeBSD? Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 11:58:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19526 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:58:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19517 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:58:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA04845; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:58:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA19427; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:58:48 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:58:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199801041958.MAA19427@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801041945.LAA13311@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199801041812.LAA19119@mt.sri.com> <199801041945.LAA13311@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications > > to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were > > developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop > > applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging > > all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. > > Curious, why do you think people don't like developing applications > for FreeBSD? There's very little money in it. I've seen too many people attempt to make commercial products in the 'free' market for too long fall on their face. The only 'big winners' in the free market have been people who sell the actual hardware we run on (PC's), and people who sell software to developers (the only example I can think of are XInside, who sell a high-performance X server and Motif.) Other than that, I don't see much of a market for any kind of application, since most of the folks who use FreeBSD either already know what they are using it for, or are developers themselves and have little use for applications. That's not to say there isn't a *very* small market, but it's not enough to make anyone rich or famous, or even allow them to 'get back' the time and effort they would spend to make something truly significant. It's just easier to give away something and get more satisfaction from doing that than to try to make a buck. So, because there isn't a whole lot of motivation for creating a 'killer app' just for FreeBSD due to the small market, it doesn't make a lot of sense to develop a product just for FreeBSD. Now, as I stated before, you can *use* FreeBSD to develop a 'killer app', but that application shouldn't be FreeBSD-centric if you want to be successful. Nate and anything you give away is going to take alot less time to develop From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 11:59:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19571 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:59:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19560 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:59:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00927; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:59:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199801041959.OAA00927@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: from Bob Bishop at "Jan 4, 98 05:23:23 pm" To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:59:00 -0500 (EST) Cc: perlsta@sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Bob Bishop said: > At 12:11 pm +0000 4/1/98, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >At my school: SUNY Tech in New York we use FreeBSD as the programming > >enviornment for most of our classes, including java, the current port 1.1.5 > >is awesome so far, the first time i've been able to get the java SDK > >working on my box at home. > > > >the only problem i see honestly, is lack of a visual GUI builder (if one > >exists please point me there) > > http://www.ist.co.uk/visaj/ but it's not free. > Have you tried SpecTCL? It looks like it supports Java and Perl also. I have heard that it is not everything that VB is, but it is available freely from Sun. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 12:01:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19741 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:01:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19695 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:00:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00937; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:00:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199801042000.PAA00937@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Process wedge in 'inode' In-Reply-To: <199801041241.NAA00536@peedub.muc.de> from Gary Jennejohn at "Jan 4, 98 01:41:51 pm" To: garyj@muc.de Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:00:08 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Gary Jennejohn said: > > this seems a little extreme, John. I'm running a -current kernel from > today with $Id: ufs_readwrite.c,v 1.38 1997/12/29 01:03:50 dyson Exp $ > and it's just fine. > > The worst breakage was fixed in 1.37 to ufs_readwrite.c, seems to me. > > Just my experience. > I am really trying to warn people that using it in any kind of production is likely to cause severe problems. If it works okay for you, then be gentle to it :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 12:08:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA20429 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:08:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p62.tfs.net [139.146.210.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20415 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:08:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA06076 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:07:59 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199801042007.OAA06076@unix.tfs.net> Subject: revisionist advertising To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:07:58 -0600 (CST) Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Thu Jan 1 19:03:58 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk just saw a revisionist ad for NASDAQ during the Green Bay game... "They invented the router ... Now Cisco Systems routers and equipment run the Internet" jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 12:30:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22031 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:30:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22012 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:30:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13497; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:29:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801042029.MAA13497@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 12:58:48 MST." <199801041958.MAA19427@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 12:29:40 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Thats interesting however I would imagine that there is at least a small percentage of developers that will be willing to write applications. We can start by defining small target goals for instance in my case I like my Pilot however I hate to run Win95 to just interface to my Pilot. On a slightly bigger scale what we need is an application architect which can create an architecture such that tasks can be broken down to re-usable components similar to Java Beans. Cheers, Amancio > > > I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications > > > to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were > > > developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop > > > applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging > > > all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. > > > > Curious, why do you think people don't like developing applications > > for FreeBSD? > > There's very little money in it. I've seen too many people attempt to > make commercial products in the 'free' market for too long fall on their > face. The only 'big winners' in the free market have been people who > sell the actual hardware we run on (PC's), and people who sell software > to developers (the only example I can think of are XInside, who sell a > high-performance X server and Motif.) > > Other than that, I don't see much of a market for any kind of > application, since most of the folks who use FreeBSD either already know > what they are using it for, or are developers themselves and have little > use for applications. That's not to say there isn't a *very* small > market, but it's not enough to make anyone rich or famous, or even allow > them to 'get back' the time and effort they would spend to make > something truly significant. It's just easier to give away something > and get more satisfaction from doing that than to try to make a buck. > > So, because there isn't a whole lot of motivation for creating a 'killer > app' just for FreeBSD due to the small market, it doesn't make a lot of > sense to develop a product just for FreeBSD. Now, as I stated before, > you can *use* FreeBSD to develop a 'killer app', but that application > shouldn't be FreeBSD-centric if you want to be successful. > > > Nate > and anything you give away is going to take alot less time to develop From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 12:52:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA24065 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:52:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24024; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07686; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:47:49 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199801042047.UAA07686@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Joerg Wunsch cc: Brian Somers , Greg Lehey , John-Mark Gurney , freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/5404: slXX slip (tun & ppp) interfaces always point to point In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:31:37 +0100." <19980104193137.01479@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:47:49 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [.....] > `Real' networks have broadcast addresses, but aren't point-to-point. > `Real' networks can't share the same local adress for different > interfaces, p2p interfaces can. `Real' networks have native > broadcasting, p2p interfaces don't. p2p interfaces always connect to > just one remote address, that's why they are called by this name. ;) Ok, I'm convinced. I'll change ifconfig so that it doesn't bother showing the netmask if the POINTOPOINT flag is there. > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 13:01:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24890 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:01:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24774 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:59:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA02920; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:03:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199801042103.IAA02920@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801042029.MAA13497@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Jan 4, 98 12:29:40 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:03:45 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty wrote: > We can start by defining small target goals for instance in my case I like > my Pilot however I hate to run Win95 to just interface to my Pilot. Umm, what is your "Pilot"? Regards, -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 13:10:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25757 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:10:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (slip-33.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25723 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:10:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA10681 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:10:28 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:10:28 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Wine 980104 assembler error Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi... When compiling Wine 980104, I get the following error: gcc -c -o commdlg.o commdlg.s commdlg.s: Assembler messages: commdlg.s:156: Error: Unknown pseudo-op: `.string' *** Error code 1 Which I'm is: DLLName: .string "COMMDLG\0" .align 4 .globl _COMMDLG_Descriptor Now, I don't know assembler, which is what this is (right?) ... what should this be under FreeBSD? Is there an equivalent? Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 13:20:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA26402 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:20:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA26386 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:20:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14233; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:19:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801042119.NAA14233@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: John Birrell cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jan 1998 08:03:45 +1100." <199801042103.IAA02920@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 13:19:58 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk 3Com's Palm Pilot --- a pocket shirt size electronic organizer. There is low level support for the Palm Pilot: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/comms/pilot-link Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 14:09:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00377 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:09:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00363 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node13.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.13]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA00249 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:10:08 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980104200617.009005a0@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:08:29 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I have the feeling that maybe someone lost the point here... Java's genious is being a cross-platform language, theoretically HW free, so, the point is not if someone is interested on writhing killer apps for FreeBSD, but if someone wants to create a Killer app using Java, which will be able to run in any platform/computer. Then, when this application exists, we will be able to face Mr. Gates, since we will be able to offer customers a *very good* choice: "What do you want, Mr. Customer: a 1000 bucks (that's avrg price for NT server here in Brazil, boys) operating system on your machine, which is well known by system crashes, or a Free OS that is rock stable, faster, needs less HW power, among other advantages ?" The decision will then be in our hands, since it makes no difference to the customer, except for the money issue, of course, hehehe. At 12:58 PM 1/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >> > I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications >> > to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were >> > developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop >> > applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging >> > all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. >> >> Curious, why do you think people don't like developing applications >> for FreeBSD? > >There's very little money in it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 14:10:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00439 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:10:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00433 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:10:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id XAA20711 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:09:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA21347; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:06:14 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:06:14 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199801042206.XAA21347@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Organization: Private BSD site, Dresden X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E References: From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Subject: Re: Wine 980104 assembler error X-Original-Newsgroups: local.freebsd.hackers To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The Hermit Hacker wrote: > Now, I don't know assembler, which is what this is (right?) ... > what should this be under FreeBSD? Is there an equivalent? j@uriah 321% /usr/libexec/cc1 -quiet char foo[] = "hello, world!"; ^D .file "gccdump" gcc2_compiled.: ___gnu_compiled_c: ..globl _foo ..data .type _foo,@object .size _foo,14 _foo: .ascii "hello, world!\0" So it seems .ascii is what you're looking for. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 14:12:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00650 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:12:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (slip-33.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00500 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:11:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA13152 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:10:25 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:10:20 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wine 980104 assembler error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Hi... > > When compiling Wine 980104, I get the following error: > > gcc -c -o commdlg.o commdlg.s > commdlg.s: Assembler messages: > commdlg.s:156: Error: Unknown pseudo-op: `.string' > *** Error code 1 > > > Which I'm is: > > DLLName: .string "COMMDLG\0" > .align 4 > .globl _COMMDLG_Descriptor > > Now, I don't know assembler, which is what this is (right?) ... > what should this be under FreeBSD? Is there an equivalent? I think I found the answer, but could someone confirm? From looking at the 'as' info pages, I *think* what I want to use is '.ascii'...is this correct? Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 14:20:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01526 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (slip-33.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01365 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:18:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA13332 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:16:56 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:16:56 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wine 980104 assembler error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Hi... > > When compiling Wine 980104, I get the following error: > > gcc -c -o commdlg.o commdlg.s > commdlg.s: Assembler messages: > commdlg.s:156: Error: Unknown pseudo-op: `.string' > *** Error code 1 > > > Which I'm is: > > DLLName: .string "COMMDLG\0" > .align 4 > .globl _COMMDLG_Descriptor > > Now, I don't know assembler, which is what this is (right?) ... > what should this be under FreeBSD? Is there an equivalent? I think I found the answer, but could someone confirm? From looking at the 'as' info pages, I *think* what I want to use is '.ascii'...is this correct? Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 15:12:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05195 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:12:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05171 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:12:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14994; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801042311.PAA14994@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:08:29 -0300." <3.0.32.19980104200617.009005a0@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 15:11:23 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Well, you have a very good point and I did a simple test run over here with my win95 box. Went thru the tutorial using Java Workshop and then just copy over the calculator example -- naturally it did not run the first time on my FreeBSD system mostly because I had to bring over the Java Workshop's virtual runtime classes . At this point , I am leaning more towards using Win95 to develop Java applications provided of course that I can still use the applications on FreeBSD. The problem with this approach is that Java development environments are kind of Win95 centric :( The reason for my preferance for Java GUI builders on FreeBSD is that is nice to use X and virtual consoles . Cheers, Amancio > I have the feeling that maybe someone lost the point here... > > Java's genious is being a cross-platform language, theoretically HW free, > so, the point is not if someone is interested on writhing killer apps for > FreeBSD, but if someone wants to create a Killer app using Java, which will > be able to run in any platform/computer. > > Then, when this application exists, we will be able to face Mr. Gates, > since we will be able to offer customers a *very good* choice: > > "What do you want, Mr. Customer: a 1000 bucks (that's avrg price for NT > server here in Brazil, boys) operating system on your machine, which is > well known by system crashes, or a Free OS that is rock stable, faster, > needs less HW power, among other advantages ?" > > The decision will then be in our hands, since it makes no difference to the > customer, except for the money issue, of course, hehehe. > > At 12:58 PM 1/4/98 -0700, you wrote: > >> > I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications > >> > to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were > >> > developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop > >> > applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging > >> > all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. > >> > >> Curious, why do you think people don't like developing applications > >> for FreeBSD? > > > >There's very little money in it. > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 15:23:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05792 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:23:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05788 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:23:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20080; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:23:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.8/8.6.9) id AAA05933; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:23:13 +0100 (CET) X-Face: " Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:23:13 +0100 From: Stefan Esser To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wine 980104 assembler error References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from The Hermit Hacker on Sun, Jan 04, 1998 at 05:10:28PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On 1998-01-04 17:10 -0400, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Hi... > > When compiling Wine 980104, I get the following error: > > gcc -c -o commdlg.o commdlg.s > commdlg.s: Assembler messages: > commdlg.s:156: Error: Unknown pseudo-op: `.string' > *** Error code 1 > > > Which I'm is: > > DLLName: .string "COMMDLG\0" > .align 4 > .globl _COMMDLG_Descriptor > > Now, I don't know assembler, which is what this is (right?) ... > what should this be under FreeBSD? Is there an equivalent? You should be able to use .ascii instead of .string. Since the .s files are created from .spec files by "build", you need to replace the two occurances of .string by .ascii in tools/build.c. Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 15:43:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA07072 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:43:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06796 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:38:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA06199; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:38:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA20203; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:38:27 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:38:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199801042338.QAA20203@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801042029.MAA13497@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199801041958.MAA19427@mt.sri.com> <199801042029.MAA13497@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Thats interesting however I would imagine that there is at least > a small percentage of developers that will be willing to write applications. Sure, and they've written them, and then moved them over to other platforms. The P3/P4 guys did that. > We can start by defining small target goals for instance in my case I like > my Pilot however I hate to run Win95 to just interface to my Pilot. There are lots of Pilot programs already in the ports tree. Why re-invent the wheel? > On a slightly bigger scale what we need is an application architect which > can create an architecture such that tasks can be broken down to > re-usable components similar to Java Beans. Who is willing to do that, *AND* find people willing to bite off the tasks he chooses? I help organize 6 professional developers, and even with $$ and a very exciting product we're developing keeping everyone in sync. is difficult Developing a 'significant' applications (which we have few if any for FreeBSD) vs simple applications (which we have a huge number of) is akin to managing a small office where there is no management vs. managing a large office where there requires 'support' staff just to keep the workers busy. Once you get to the point where the overhead becomes great enough that you require a person 'in the middle' to keep things straight it becomes alot less fun and more work, and the people doing the work no longer have as much freedom to do what they want, which is less fun and more work. When it becomes less fun and more work, you must compensate them for that somehow, and the only thing I'm aware of that works effectively for longs periods of time (enough to get the job done) is $$, and there isn't enough in the FreeBSD users ranks to justify developing a FreeBSD-centric application. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 15:57:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08000 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:57:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (slip-33.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07973; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:56:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id TAA17049; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:55:19 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:55:18 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Stefan Esser cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wine 980104 assembler error In-Reply-To: <19980105002313.50740@mi.uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Stefan Esser wrote: > You should be able to use .ascii instead of .string. > > Since the .s files are created from .spec files by "build", > you need to replace the two occurances of .string by .ascii > in tools/build.c. Yup, I had originally just tried to check the 'as' man page, without thinking of the 'as' info page :( I have made the change and submitted patches to the wine developers for this. They are going to add stuff to configure so that it auto-detects whether or not .string or .ascii should be used Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 15:57:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08046 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:57:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08034 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:57:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA06333; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:56:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA20294; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:56:57 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:56:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199801042356.QAA20294@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Capriotti , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801042311.PAA14994@rah.star-gate.com> References: <3.0.32.19980104200617.009005a0@pop.mpc.com.br> <199801042311.PAA14994@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > At this point , I am leaning more towards using Win95 to develop Java > applications provided of course that I can still use the > applications on FreeBSD. The problem with this approach is that > Java development environments are kind of Win95 centric :( I've found that although the Win95 stuff is easy to get the GUI up and running quickly, when the application starts to get more 'significant' you end up running into bugs/limitations on the commercial IDE's. We do our initial setup under '95, then once we get the layouts done we move them over to unix and fill them out. This also gives the advantage of using a *real* editor (XEmacs currently blows any integrated editor completely out of the water). Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 16:50:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA12309 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:50:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA12248; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:49:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22064; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:13:33 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA10930; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:13:32 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980105111332.39295@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:13:32 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Joerg Wunsch Cc: Brian Somers , John-Mark Gurney , freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/5404: slXX slip (tun & ppp) interfaces always point to point References: <19980104110521.14399@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199801041629.QAA04727@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <19980104193137.01479@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <19980104193137.01479@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Sun, Jan 04, 1998 at 07:31:37PM +0100 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, Jan 04, 1998 at 07:31:37PM +0100, J Wunsch wrote: > As Brian Somers wrote: > >> Not quite. I was suggesting that instead of the first, we have the >> second, or in fact >> >> route add 1.2.3.4 -netmask 0xffffff00 1.4.5.6 >> >> If you specify a 0xffffffff netmask, you get the same as the existing >> stuff *always* does. > > However, since most people don't bother messing with the netmask on > p2p interfaces at all (why should they), they'll always catch the > default netmask, so the above will violate the principle of least > surprise for them (configurations that used to work would no longer > work). I don't see what would change with this method. What would it break? The correct behaviour for a ppp interface is to address only the IP at the other end of the line. Add a netmask for pseudo-broadcast, and you're addressing this address and a number of other IPs around it. This works because the other end of the link typically performs packet forwarding. It's not real broadcast, but it's hard to tell the difference. What wouldn't work? >> The real purpose, as you've already suggested, is that you get the >> associated broadcast address. With this broadcast address, all sorts >> of other things work (timed, rwhod, nmbd etc.), assuming that you've >> got a proxy arp setup on the other end. > > Proxy arp is a hack. We shouldn't encourage using hacks. If people > are interested in using hacks, they should have more work to be done > than those who are interested in clean setups. Agreed. > (Sure, like all hacks, there are situations why proxy arp can be > useful. vfork() is another example of a useful hack. Recommending > proxy arp as a general method is ugly. Setup correct IP routing > instead.) The problem is, the Microsoft World uses it, and that's a significant number of the machines that might be involved in such a network. IIRC, proxy arp is needed because NETBEUI can't route. >> Of course, this implies that the destination address isn't actually >> required - as with a real network. > > `Real' networks have broadcast addresses, but aren't point-to-point. You're talking about broadcast networks here. 'Real' networks can be built out of p2p links. This is still the way the Internet works: broadcast network hardware is almost always local. > `Real' networks can't share the same local adress for different > interfaces, p2p interfaces can. What do you mean by that? Of course they can, they just need to be on different networks, like p2p interfaces are. > `Real' networks have native broadcasting, p2p interfaces don't. You're talking about Ethernet again. > p2p interfaces always connect to just one remote address, that's why > they are called by this name. ;) Well, it's not the address, it's the interface. It could have multiple IPs :-) I don't really understand what the purpose of this discussion is. I am concerned that we're making changes in the name of "purity" which don't bring us any particular advantage, and which could bring disadvantages. For example, take a look in the FreeBSD network book. Which one? Oh yes, we don't have one. OK, take Stevens, or Nemeth and Co., or Craig Hunt, or one of the many excellent books on UNIX networking. They all apply pretty well. Be a moderately informed user, and set up a network with a moderately informed ISP. Get one like mine who insists on a net mask of 0xffffffc0. Ignore him, he's harmless. So far, everything works. Those who understand the matter know that the funny netmask is really just a superstition, but who cares? All that changes when we start changing the behaviour of the system. For example, look at page 411 of Nemeth & Co: "Other local customs, such as the interface subnet mask, should be applied as well". Go looking for a net mask with ifconfig. Where's it gone? Unnecessary confusion. The kernel data structures still maintain a net mask for p2p interfaces. Not showing it isn't the answer. A better way to handle the problem would be to set it to 0xffffffff by default, and allow changing it if absolutely required. In the latter case, I can't see why it shouldn't imply a "broadcast network" of a size corresponding to the netmask, and enter a route it. If you want, you can issue a message saying what you've done, and that this isn't a real broadcast network. It would make interoperabilitiy a whole lot easier. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 17:47:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA16863 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:47:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA16809 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:46:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:45:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12796; Sun, 4 Jan 98 20:45:27 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA02652; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:44:36 -0500 Message-Id: <19980104204435.18522@ct.picker.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:44:35 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: Kapil Chowksey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Slow lnc0 Solved (was Re: (?) lnc0: Transmit underflow error -- Resetting) References: <19971223230921.57532@netwalk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <19971223230921.57532@netwalk.com>; from abc@netwalk.com on Tue, Dec 23, 1997 at 11:09:21PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Kapil Chowksey: |Randall Hopper: | |I'm trying to do transfers of a large amount of data between my FreeBSD | |3.0-971208-SNAP box with a NE2100 Lance card and a Linux 2.0.32 box with an | |NE2000. | | | |My effective transfer rate is measely 1.6kbytes per second over a 10Mbps | |ethernet with FTP, and I'm getting loads of these in the FreeBSD error log: | |Ditto here. I have a PCI based NE2100 card (lnc1) on an HP Vectra |pentium 200Mhz class PC which gives equally pathetic performance (both |under 2.2.5-RELEASE and 3.0-971208-SNAP) while ftp'ing to any other |host (Solaris, HPUX, EtherExpress Linux's, ed0 based FreeBSDs). | |It seems that packet sizes greater than 738 get delayed by 1-2 seconds |in the driver itself ! After chasing this one a while, I narrowed the culprit down to one of the settings in my Award BIOS: CHIPSET GLOBAL FEATURES Anybody know more specifically what this option selects? Flipping this from ENABLED to DISABLED did the trick. When ENABLED, my NIC yields 1.5-16 KBytes/sec transfer rate. When DISABLED, it gives the 1100 KBytes/sec it's supposed to. I had this enabled since it was enabled by default in prior P55T2P4 Award BIOS versions and ASUS docs. I note that it is now disabled in the 205 BIOS rev. defaults. Probably something to due with DMA as: I see this slowdown in multiple OSs, an NE2000 clone (IRQ, no DMA) works fine in the same slot on the same IRQ (multiple OSs), and I found a DejaNews post of a Gravis Ultrasound owner failing to get Ultrasound DMA working unless this this option was disabled. (For the archives, my NIC is an Allied Telesyn AT1500 PCnet-ISA (79C960) Bus-mastering ISA card. Configuration: 0x300-0x317 irq 12 drq 7 on isa) Thanks in advance for any enlightenment. Randall Hopper From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 17:48:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17057 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:48:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17032 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:48:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from detlev!joelh@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp87.wcc.net [208.6.232.87]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA17206; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:45:02 -0600 (CST) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA01486; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:47:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:47:58 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801050147.TAA01486@detlev.UUCP> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Emacs copyright update abilities From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Just a New Year's reminder to all those who use Emacs... If you want to have Emacs remind you when a file's copyright (if it exists) is out of date, you can include: (add-hook 'write-file-hooks 'copyright-update) (setq copyright-query t) in your .emacs file. This will cause Emacs to search the top 2000 characters for a copyright notice (including the TeX @copyright{}, octal 251, and I believe the troff copyright char), and if found, ensure that the current year is listed, and prompt you for permission to update it if necessary. This occurs on the first save of any file. This works on at least recent (last 8 months) GNU Emacs 19 releases and all GNU Emacs 20 releases. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 18:10:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18879 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:10:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18852 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:10:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA04215; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:01:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd004211; Sun Jan 4 18:01:50 1998 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:58:44 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Process wedge in 'inode' In-Reply-To: <199801040636.RAA00409@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk If you can make a kernel from the same sources as that one, then doig it with -g and gdb -k newkernel /dev/mem will allow you to examine th s process structs etc. of those processes even without the -g kernel, you might be able to get somewhere if you can find teh address of 'allproc' as a start point. On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Just simultaneously checking out two copies of the kernel source using > 'cvs co sys', I have an interesting situation: > > kingsford:~>ps axlwww > UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND > 1000 1359 1348 1 -14 0 1356 864 inode D+ v1 0:06.84 cvs co sys > 1000 1366 160 4 -14 0 1356 812 inode D+ v2 0:06.77 cvs co sys > > Neither process is responding to signals, and neither can be killed. > The rest of the system is running as normal... > > This is -current as of 971220. > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 18:25:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA19634 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:25:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA19624 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:25:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15443; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:35:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801050035.QAA15443@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 16:38:27 MST." <199801042338.QAA20203@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 16:31:28 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > must compensate them for that somehow, and the only thing I'm aware of > that works effectively for longs periods of time (enough to get the job > done) is $$, and there isn't enough in the FreeBSD users ranks to > justify developing a FreeBSD-centric application. Good points , however , I am not necessarily talking about FreeBSD-centric applications. We have ported hundreds if not thousands of programs to FreeBSD. If we had something like Java Workshops with a suite of java beans and sample applications , we could actually start something. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 19:02:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22536 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:02:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.hanse.de (angel.hanse.de [193.174.9.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA22522 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:02:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Hanse.DE!Stefan.Bethke@mail.hanse.de) Received: from Hanse.DE by mail.hanse.de with UUCP for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org id ; Mon, 5 Jan 98 04:01 MET Received: from [193.141.161.123] (monster.pong.ppp.de [193.141.161.123]) by transit.hanse.de (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA12996 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:59:29 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: stefan@transit.hanse.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <34AD9004.237C228A@whistle.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:00:04 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Stefan Bethke Subject: Re: BT-542B fails with 2.2.5 (urgent) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 17:10 Uhr -0800 02.01.1998, Julian Elischer wrote: >> I'm currently trying to upgrade a machine from 1.1.5.1 to 2.2.5. >> >> Unfortunatly, the BT-452B, which worked fine with 1.1.5.1 (using aha), >> fails with 2.2.5-RELEASE. Thanks to all who answered, but it seems that "probably a hardware failure" seems to be true. The mainboard I was using doesn't seem to work, so I finally swapped it, and now everything works fine. Thanks, Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Hamburg, Germany From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 19:14:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA23441 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:14:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23419 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:14:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA07436; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:14:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA20801; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:14:42 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:14:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199801050314.UAA20801@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801050035.QAA15443@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199801042338.QAA20203@mt.sri.com> <199801050035.QAA15443@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > If we had something like Java Workshops with a suite of java beans > and sample applications , we could actually start something. I'm hoping to try Java workshop out when I get more time. The Linux folks have it running, so it should be trivial to get it running under FreeBSD,since it's supposedly 100% java and/or shell scripts. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 19:19:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA23763 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:19:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23759 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:19:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00673; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:26:35 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801050256.NAA00673@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Amancio Hasty cc: John Birrell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 13:19:58 -0800." <199801042119.NAA14233@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 13:26:34 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > 3Com's Palm Pilot --- a pocket shirt size electronic organizer. > > There is low level support for the Palm Pilot: > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/comms/pilot-link There's also a pilot emulator (xpilot), which is pretty neat. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 19:27:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24550 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:27:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24233 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:22:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16062; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:21:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801050321.TAA16062@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:14:42 MST." <199801050314.UAA20801@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:21:50 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > If we had something like Java Workshops with a suite of java beans > > and sample applications , we could actually start something. > > I'm hoping to try Java workshop out when I get more time. The Linux > folks have it running, so it should be trivial to get it running under > FreeBSD,since it's supposedly 100% java and/or shell scripts. > > > Nate Java Workshop 2.0 does not run on FreeBSD and I doubt that it runs on linux. The linux folks did have an earlier beta version of Java Workshop working on linux. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 20:07:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27556 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:07:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.njcc.com (root@pluto.njcc.com [165.254.117.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27548 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:07:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from Pkhansen (khansen.njcc.com [199.224.2.142]) by pluto.njcc.com (8.8.7/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA04310; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:07:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801050407.XAA04310@pluto.njcc.com> Reply-To: <@njcc.com> From: "Ken Hansen" To: "Alfred Perlstein" , Subject: Re: SCSI on Soundblaster16? Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 23:07:39 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I can't speak to support for the chip in FreeBSD (it is an AHA-1510/20) but I can say that you would more than likely do beter getting a NCR 810 or similar SCSI card for $40-60 and a true SB16 for about same, than getting the SB16-SCSI. I have one, and the interface is OK, but it is nothing to get excited over... (IMHO). Ken khansen@njcc.com ---------- > From: Alfred Perlstein > To: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: SCSI on Soundblaster16? > Date: Sunday, December 28, 1997 5:04 PM > > Is the integrated SCSI adapter on the SoundBlaster16 any good? would i be > wasting my money and sanity trying to hook up a 16x CD-rom to it? what's > the best i can expect from the darn thing (the SCSI adapter)? > > i would like to hook up a SCSI cdrom to it, but if the adapter is really > trash i might as well get an ATAPI IDE, they're cheaper anyhow.... > > plus is the driver even stable? > > thank you, > -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 20:40:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00636 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:40:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA00629 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:40:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xp4Ki-0000HA-00; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:40:12 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA25521 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:40:20 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199801050440.VAA25521@harmony.village.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Musing on boot Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 21:40:19 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I've hacked my rc files so that I always fsck on boot. This worked out fairly well until recently. Recently, I added about 6G of space across several partitions and disks. Now the system takes forever to boot. I had thought about unhacking the fsck, but then I realized that it would take forever to boot when I've crashed. So, being the safety conscious impatient engineer that I am, I thought about implementing the following. I thought I'd bounce it off hackers first to see what people think. The idea is to have a list of file systems that *MUST* be present for the system to come up. These files systems are fsck'd and mounted synchronously. All the rest of the file systems have a fsck kicked off in the background, and a mount done when that fsck happens to finish. This is horrible for home directories, but great for the OpenBSD sources, FreeBSD source, NetBSD sources, /usr/obj, build trees, gcc/egcs expermental crap, etc that is scattered over much of the new disk space. This would allow me to get back up quickly, while allowing stuff to "drift" into the system as it is available. I thought I'd bounce it off hackers. It seems like such a simple idea that something must be wrong with it. Comments? Warner P.S. Code to follow if there appears to be interest... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 21:24:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA03567 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:24:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03462 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:23:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-55.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.55]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA29931 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:24:20 GMT Message-Id: <199801050124.BAA29931@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: Re: Musing on boot Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:19:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk this is a great idea, also the ability to add something along the lines of: if (mount on not_so_important_fs fails) sendmail > root "why it failed" also a syslog or something mechanism for saving the fsck output would be nice... maybe it exists but i can't ever find it... kinda like something to log the startup script output.... -Alfred ---------- > From: Warner Losh > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Musing on boot > Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 11:40 PM > > > I've hacked my rc files so that I always fsck on boot. This worked > out fairly well until recently. Recently, I added about 6G of space > across several partitions and disks. Now the system takes forever to > boot. I had thought about unhacking the fsck, but then I realized > that it would take forever to boot when I've crashed. > > So, being the safety conscious impatient engineer that I am, I thought > about implementing the following. I thought I'd bounce it off hackers > first to see what people think. > > The idea is to have a list of file systems that *MUST* be present for > the system to come up. These files systems are fsck'd and mounted > synchronously. All the rest of the file systems have a fsck kicked > off in the background, and a mount done when that fsck happens to > finish. > > This is horrible for home directories, but great for the OpenBSD > sources, FreeBSD source, NetBSD sources, /usr/obj, build trees, > gcc/egcs expermental crap, etc that is scattered over much of the new > disk space. This would allow me to get back up quickly, while > allowing stuff to "drift" into the system as it is available. > > I thought I'd bounce it off hackers. It seems like such a simple idea > that something must be wrong with it. > > Comments? > > Warner > > P.S. Code to follow if there appears to be interest... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 21:39:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04575 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:39:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04517 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:38:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01099; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:00:00 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801050530.QAA01099@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Musing on boot In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 21:40:19 PDT." <199801050440.VAA25521@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 16:00:00 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > The idea is to have a list of file systems that *MUST* be present for > the system to come up. These files systems are fsck'd and mounted > synchronously. All the rest of the file systems have a fsck kicked > off in the background, and a mount done when that fsck happens to > finish. List the "optional" filesystems in /etc/fstab with '0' fsck pass values and 'noauto' mount options, then put fsck && mount & for each filesystem in /etc/rc.local > I thought I'd bounce it off hackers. It seems like such a simple idea > that something must be wrong with it. It's certainly not new. 8) > P.S. Code to follow if there appears to be interest... I would be inclined to suggest that an option to mount_ffs(8) that automatically fsck'ed a filesystem before mounting it would be a good way to go. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 22:33:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08247 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:33:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08237 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:32:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (brightmn@ppp-55.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.55]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA00380; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:33:17 GMT Message-Id: <199801050233.CAA00380@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Warner Losh" , "Mike Smith" Cc: Subject: Re: Musing on boot Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:29:05 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk MUHAHAHAH evilness: ( mount /dev/device /mountpoint || ( fsck /dev/device && mount /dev/device /mountpoint) ) & done in the background: if the mount fails, fsck the device then mount... put in a nested shell script we could grep a file with the devs and mount points in it, xargs to the script then do a foreach or something... -Alfred ---------- > From: Mike Smith > To: Warner Losh > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Musing on boot > Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 12:30 AM > > > > > > > The idea is to have a list of file systems that *MUST* be present for > > the system to come up. These files systems are fsck'd and mounted > > synchronously. All the rest of the file systems have a fsck kicked > > off in the background, and a mount done when that fsck happens to > > finish. > > List the "optional" filesystems in /etc/fstab with '0' fsck pass values > and 'noauto' mount options, then put > > fsck && mount & > > for each filesystem in /etc/rc.local > > > I thought I'd bounce it off hackers. It seems like such a simple idea > > that something must be wrong with it. > > It's certainly not new. 8) > > > P.S. Code to follow if there appears to be interest... > > I would be inclined to suggest that an option to mount_ffs(8) that > automatically fsck'ed a filesystem before mounting it would be a good > way to go. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 05:37:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA03759 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 05:37:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA03746 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 05:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-70.ts-7.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.142]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01423 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:38:32 GMT Message-Id: <199801050938.JAA01423@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: WIDE-dhcp-1.4p1 out. already ported. Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:34:35 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The DHCP server suite is out (i don't know how long ago) and it's "built" to port to freebsd ok. no problems, just untar and "make;make install" i'm not really familiar with the port system so if anyone can, it should be incorperated, no patches are nessesary to compile... -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 06:06:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA04887 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:06:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hercules.datafocus.com (smtp.datafocus.com [204.255.0.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA04868 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:06:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwex@DataFocus.com) Received: by hercules.fairfax.datafocus.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:49:43 -0500 Message-ID: From: "David E. Wexelblat" To: "'devel@XFree86.Org'" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:49:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Well, I have a great deal of experience with PC X servers (check out the work URL...). I have to be careful with what I say, as we are a source licensee for one of the PC X server vendors, and I've been inside their sources. I will only give some general comments. 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX only gets major performance improvements when it can take over the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server vendors use DirectX. That said - Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 3 provides most of DirectX 3 for Windows NT. DirectX isn't supported at all prior to SP3, and DirectX 5 support isn't planned to be available until Windows NT 5.0 (which is currently in Beta1). 2) All the PC X servers operate in one of two modes: single-window or multiple-window. Single-window is a traditional X server main window, living in a single Windows window. Basically, the Windows window becomes a single large framebuffer. This is easy to implement, but X apps don't coexist well with Windows apps this way. Multi-window mode basically has no visible X root window. Each X top-level window is a Windows top-level window. In this mode, the X server provides some sort of local window manager, so that the X apps are both ICCCM-compliant, and windows-friendly. The good ones even recognize Motif window manager hints for decorations, etc. I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode (well, we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been told do use single-window mode). 3) Palette management is a major headache. In a normal X server, the X server controls the hardware palette, and can do what it wants. In a PC X server, Windows controls the palette. There's a lot of code involved in getting X color handling to work "right" under Windows. In addition, most of the major PC X server vendors have implemented 8-bit-pseudo-color visuals on top of 16/24/32-bit true-color visuals. This is because most PCs these days are in high/true-color mode, and most X apps fall down if the default visual isn't 8-bit pseudo-color. As far as I know, this is all done with software; I've been told that Windows provides no way to get to the RAMDAC to do it in hardware even if the RAMDAC supports it. 4) Device management is also a pain (keyboard & mouse), because you have to go through windows. 5) Font management is interesting. All the PC X servers I have seen have X bitmap & scaled fonts, but not in .pcf format. They have them in Windows .fon format, and provide their own font compilers. I've never completely understood why they bother with this - if they're going to provide X-specific fonts, why not leave then in X-specific formats? No one has yet written a font server that allows use of native Windows fonts, that I have seen. -- David Wexelblat Phone: (703) 803-3343 x370 DataFocus Incorporated Fax: (703) 803-3344 12450 Fair Lakes Circle, Suite 400 mailto:dwex@datafocus.com Fairfax, VA 22033-3821 http://www.datafocus.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Alfred Perlstein > Sent: Friday, January 02, 1998 6:31 AM > To: devel@XFree86.Org > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > post) > > (please excuse the cross post, i'm really looking for help and this is > a > strange multiplatform subject...) > > I'm interested in making a windows 95/NT port of Xfree86, > i plan on using DirectX to support fast accesses to the graphical > hardware. > > if anyone has the time to answer a couple of questions it would be > greatly > appreciated. > > 1) can anyone recommend a free c/cpp compiler/enviornment for this? > i've looked at DJGPP,RSXNT, and the cygnus thingy and so far: > DJGPP doesn't support win32. > RSXNT hardly is docmented and doesn't seem to be useful as a > UNIX to WIN32 > porting tool things like sockets don't seem to be implemented. > cygnus doesn't appeal to me because of hardcore GPL license they > have. > > i do NOT mind giving credit where credit is due... but i'm not > too keen on > releasing my source, i DO however, plan on the product being free. > > 2) if i use direct-X does anyone know if it will work on NT? i think > mircosoft doesn't support DirectX on NT, or at least not past version > 3... > > 3) what books can i get on the low level details of X? anything on > how the > X11 source tree is set up? anyone have any pointers to good > FAQs/tutorials? > > thank you, > -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 06:53:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA08400 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:53:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA08386 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:53:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA26813 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:01:03 GMT Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:54:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Weird malloc problem. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I just discovered that I can happily malloc 512M without any problem, even ps is sure that I've managed this, but seeing as I've only got about 150M total virtual memory available I'm a bit surprised. Should I be ? I'm running: FreeBSD dylan.visint.co.uk 3.0-971202-SNAP FreeBSD 3.0-971202-SNAP #0: Wed Dec 3 17:45:54 GMT 1997 steve@quit.visint.co.uk:/usr/src/sys/compile/QUIT i386 I wondered if there was any changes from about this time that might let me do that ? Thanks in advance. Steve -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 07:16:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA10090 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:16:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from callisto.fortean.com (callisto.fortean.com [206.142.225.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA10082 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:16:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) Received: from localhost (walter@localhost) by callisto.fortean.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA14314; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:16:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: callisto.fortean.com: walter owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:16:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Bruce M. Walter" To: "David E. Wexelblat" cc: "'devel@XFree86.Org'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, David E. Wexelblat wrote: > 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server > manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX > only gets major performance improvements when it can take over > the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major > win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server > vendors use DirectX. > > [...] > > I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode > (well, > we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been told > do use single-window mode). Exceed for 95 does full-screen quite well. In fact, I can't stand it any other way ;) Being primarily a Unix developer with certain Windoze requirements I need an environment where I can switch between the two in an instant. With Exceed in full-screen mode, you can't tell this is a Windoze box until you hit -... The price tag and lack of NT support are my only big bones to pick, although nice fast MPG animations would be nice. IMHO, doing a version without full-screen capability would be a mistake. - B ======================================================================== || Bruce M. Walter || 107 Timber Hollow Court #335 || || Senior Network Consultant || Chapel Hill, NC 27514 || || Fortean Technologies, Inc. || Tel: 919-967-4766 || || Information Technology Consultants || Fax: 919-967-4395 || ======================================================================== || BSD Unix -- It's not just a job, it's a way of life! || ======================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 07:23:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA10463 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:23:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hercules.datafocus.com (smtp.datafocus.com [204.255.0.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA10450 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:23:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwex@DataFocus.com) Received: by hercules.fairfax.datafocus.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:23:19 -0500 Message-ID: From: "David E. Wexelblat" To: "'Bruce M. Walter'" Cc: "'devel@XFree86.Org'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:23:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Exceed is Hummingbird's product, isn't it? Or is there something else with the same name as the Hummingbird product? They certainly do have Windows NT support; we ship it (optionally) with NuTCRACKER, and it supports both WinNT and Win95. Note that single-window mode and fullscreen mode aren't the same thing. I'm pretty sure Hummingbird does single-window mode; I know several others do. I'm not sure that any of the PC X servers do true full-screen mode. I'm not at all saying that we shouldn't do single-window mode. I'm saying (a) that multiwindow mode is awfully important for a Win32 X server, and (b) I have been told by people who write these things for a living that DirectX in a window doesn't produce any performance benefits over GDI unless you are in fullscreen mode. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce M. Walter > Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 10:16 AM > To: David E. Wexelblat > Cc: 'devel@XFree86.Org'; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for > cross post) > > On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, David E. Wexelblat wrote: > > > 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server > > manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX > > only gets major performance improvements when it can take over > > the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major > > win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server > > vendors use DirectX. > > > > [...] > > > > I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode > > (well, > > we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been > told > > do use single-window mode). > > Exceed for 95 does full-screen quite well. In fact, I can't stand it > any > other way ;) > > Being primarily a Unix developer with certain Windoze requirements I > need > an environment where I can switch between the two in an instant. With > Exceed in full-screen mode, you can't tell this is a Windoze box until > you > hit -... The price tag and lack of NT support are my only > big > bones to pick, although nice fast MPG animations would be nice. > > IMHO, doing a version without full-screen capability would be a > mistake. > > - B > > ====================================================================== > == > || Bruce M. Walter || 107 Timber Hollow Court #335 > || > || Senior Network Consultant || Chapel Hill, NC 27514 > || > || Fortean Technologies, Inc. || Tel: 919-967-4766 > || > || Information Technology Consultants || Fax: 919-967-4395 > || > ====================================================================== > == > || BSD Unix -- It's not just a job, it's a way of life! > || > ====================================================================== > == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 08:09:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA13373 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA13303 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-70.ts-7.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.142]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA02085; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:09:25 GMT Message-Id: <199801051209.MAA02085@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Cc: Subject: Re: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:05:11 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk i have no interest in making a "let windows be my window manager X" that is garbage, i've seen them and they are horrible, my main interest is getting a full screen port done with XDM logon abilities. using windows as my window manager gives me a chill and ruins the whole experiance for me :) if possible a "full screen in one window" would be a later project... i do not want to "stray" from the Xfree86 model, i would like to have this port be maintained easily, not as a one time port and forget about it deal where so much is kludged around that maintaining it is impossible. to me, DirectX+fullscreen is the way to go. i've seen "in window" X servers and the performance is horrid, why run X and make it slow? -Alfred ---------- > From: David E. Wexelblat > To: 'devel@XFree86.Org' > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) > Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:49 AM > > Well, I have a great deal of experience with PC X servers (check > out the work URL...). I have to be careful with what I say, as > we are a source licensee for one of the PC X server vendors, and > I've been inside their sources. I will only give some general > comments. > > 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server > manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX > only gets major performance improvements when it can take over > the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major > win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server > vendors use DirectX. > > That said - Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 3 provides most of > DirectX 3 for Windows NT. DirectX isn't supported at all prior to > SP3, and DirectX 5 support isn't planned to be available until > Windows NT 5.0 (which is currently in Beta1). > > 2) All the PC X servers operate in one of two modes: single-window > or multiple-window. Single-window is a traditional X server main > window, living in a single Windows window. Basically, the Windows > window becomes a single large framebuffer. This is easy to implement, > but X apps don't coexist well with Windows apps this way. > > Multi-window mode basically has no visible X root window. Each X > top-level window is a Windows top-level window. In this mode, the X > server provides some sort of local window manager, so that the X apps > are both ICCCM-compliant, and windows-friendly. The good ones even > recognize Motif window manager hints for decorations, etc. > > I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode > (well, > we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been told > do use single-window mode). > > 3) Palette management is a major headache. In a normal X server, the > X server controls the hardware palette, and can do what it wants. In a > PC X server, Windows controls the palette. There's a lot of code > involved > in getting X color handling to work "right" under Windows. > > In addition, most of the major PC X server vendors have implemented > 8-bit-pseudo-color visuals on top of 16/24/32-bit true-color visuals. > This > is because most PCs these days are in high/true-color mode, and most X > apps > fall down if the default visual isn't 8-bit pseudo-color. As far as I > know, > this is all done with software; I've been told that Windows provides no > way > to get to the RAMDAC to do it in hardware even if the RAMDAC supports > it. > > 4) Device management is also a pain (keyboard & mouse), because you have > to > go through windows. > > 5) Font management is interesting. All the PC X servers I have seen > have X > bitmap & scaled fonts, but not in .pcf format. They have them in > Windows > .fon format, and provide their own font compilers. I've never > completely > understood why they bother with this - if they're going to provide > X-specific > fonts, why not leave then in X-specific formats? No one has yet written > a > font server that allows use of native Windows fonts, that I have seen. > > -- > David Wexelblat Phone: (703) 803-3343 x370 > DataFocus Incorporated Fax: (703) 803-3344 > 12450 Fair Lakes Circle, Suite 400 mailto:dwex@datafocus.com > Fairfax, VA 22033-3821 http://www.datafocus.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alfred Perlstein > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 1998 6:31 AM > > To: devel@XFree86.Org > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > Subject: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > > post) > > > > (please excuse the cross post, i'm really looking for help and this is > > a > > strange multiplatform subject...) > > > > I'm interested in making a windows 95/NT port of Xfree86, > > i plan on using DirectX to support fast accesses to the graphical > > hardware. > > > > if anyone has the time to answer a couple of questions it would be > > greatly > > appreciated. > > > > 1) can anyone recommend a free c/cpp compiler/enviornment for this? > > i've looked at DJGPP,RSXNT, and the cygnus thingy and so far: > > DJGPP doesn't support win32. > > RSXNT hardly is docmented and doesn't seem to be useful as a > > UNIX to WIN32 > > porting tool things like sockets don't seem to be implemented. > > cygnus doesn't appeal to me because of hardcore GPL license they > > have. > > > > i do NOT mind giving credit where credit is due... but i'm not > > too keen on > > releasing my source, i DO however, plan on the product being free. > > > > 2) if i use direct-X does anyone know if it will work on NT? i think > > mircosoft doesn't support DirectX on NT, or at least not past version > > 3... > > > > 3) what books can i get on the low level details of X? anything on > > how the > > X11 source tree is set up? anyone have any pointers to good > > FAQs/tutorials? > > > > thank you, > > -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 08:20:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14618 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:20:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hercules.datafocus.com (smtp.datafocus.com [204.255.0.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14041 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:15:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwex@DataFocus.com) Received: by hercules.fairfax.datafocus.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:15:05 -0500 Message-ID: From: "David E. Wexelblat" To: "'devel@XFree86.Org'" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:15:04 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Who is your target audience? Why on earth would I set up a windows box that is doing nothing but running X? This seems extraordinarily useless - if I wanted a dedicated X machine, I'd run Linux on it. The only reason to put X on a Windows PC is interoperability. > -----Original Message----- > From: Alfred Perlstein > Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 11:05 AM > To: devel@XFree86.Org > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: interested in working on windows port (sorry for > cross post) > > i have no interest in making a "let windows be my window manager X" > that is > garbage, i've seen them and they are horrible, my main interest is > getting > a full screen port done with XDM logon abilities. using windows as my > window manager gives me a chill and ruins the whole experiance for me > :) > > if possible a "full screen in one window" would be a later project... > > i do not want to "stray" from the Xfree86 model, i would like to have > this > port be maintained easily, not as a one time port and forget about it > deal > where so much is kludged around that maintaining it is impossible. > > to me, DirectX+fullscreen is the way to go. > > i've seen "in window" X servers and the performance is horrid, why run > X > and make it slow? > > -Alfred > > ---------- > > From: David E. Wexelblat > > To: 'devel@XFree86.Org' > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > post) > > Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:49 AM > > > > Well, I have a great deal of experience with PC X servers (check > > out the work URL...). I have to be careful with what I say, as > > we are a source licensee for one of the PC X server vendors, and > > I've been inside their sources. I will only give some general > > comments. > > > > 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server > > manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX > > only gets major performance improvements when it can take over > > the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major > > win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server > > vendors use DirectX. > > > > That said - Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 3 provides most of > > DirectX 3 for Windows NT. DirectX isn't supported at all prior to > > SP3, and DirectX 5 support isn't planned to be available until > > Windows NT 5.0 (which is currently in Beta1). > > > > 2) All the PC X servers operate in one of two modes: single-window > > or multiple-window. Single-window is a traditional X server main > > window, living in a single Windows window. Basically, the Windows > > window becomes a single large framebuffer. This is easy to > implement, > > but X apps don't coexist well with Windows apps this way. > > > > Multi-window mode basically has no visible X root window. Each X > > top-level window is a Windows top-level window. In this mode, the X > > server provides some sort of local window manager, so that the X > apps > > are both ICCCM-compliant, and windows-friendly. The good ones even > > recognize Motif window manager hints for decorations, etc. > > > > I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode > > (well, > > we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been > told > > do use single-window mode). > > > > 3) Palette management is a major headache. In a normal X server, > the > > X server controls the hardware palette, and can do what it wants. > In a > > PC X server, Windows controls the palette. There's a lot of code > > involved > > in getting X color handling to work "right" under Windows. > > > > In addition, most of the major PC X server vendors have implemented > > 8-bit-pseudo-color visuals on top of 16/24/32-bit true-color > visuals. > > This > > is because most PCs these days are in high/true-color mode, and most > X > > apps > > fall down if the default visual isn't 8-bit pseudo-color. As far as > I > > know, > > this is all done with software; I've been told that Windows provides > no > > way > > to get to the RAMDAC to do it in hardware even if the RAMDAC > supports > > it. > > > > 4) Device management is also a pain (keyboard & mouse), because you > have > > to > > go through windows. > > > > 5) Font management is interesting. All the PC X servers I have seen > > have X > > bitmap & scaled fonts, but not in .pcf format. They have them in > > Windows > > .fon format, and provide their own font compilers. I've never > > completely > > understood why they bother with this - if they're going to provide > > X-specific > > fonts, why not leave then in X-specific formats? No one has yet > written > > a > > font server that allows use of native Windows fonts, that I have > seen. > > > > -- > > David Wexelblat Phone: (703) 803-3343 x370 > > DataFocus Incorporated Fax: (703) 803-3344 > > 12450 Fair Lakes Circle, Suite 400 mailto:dwex@datafocus.com > > Fairfax, VA 22033-3821 http://www.datafocus.com > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Alfred Perlstein > > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 1998 6:31 AM > > > To: devel@XFree86.Org > > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > > Subject: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > > > post) > > > > > > (please excuse the cross post, i'm really looking for help and > this is > > > a > > > strange multiplatform subject...) > > > > > > I'm interested in making a windows 95/NT port of Xfree86, > > > i plan on using DirectX to support fast accesses to the graphical > > > hardware. > > > > > > if anyone has the time to answer a couple of questions it would be > > > greatly > > > appreciated. > > > > > > 1) can anyone recommend a free c/cpp compiler/enviornment for > this? > > > i've looked at DJGPP,RSXNT, and the cygnus thingy and so far: > > > DJGPP doesn't support win32. > > > RSXNT hardly is docmented and doesn't seem to be useful as a > > > UNIX to WIN32 > > > porting tool things like sockets don't seem to be implemented. > > > cygnus doesn't appeal to me because of hardcore GPL license they > > > have. > > > > > > i do NOT mind giving credit where credit is due... but i'm not > > > too keen on > > > releasing my source, i DO however, plan on the product being free. > > > > > > 2) if i use direct-X does anyone know if it will work on NT? i > think > > > mircosoft doesn't support DirectX on NT, or at least not past > version > > > 3... > > > > > > 3) what books can i get on the low level details of X? anything > on > > > how the > > > X11 source tree is set up? anyone have any pointers to good > > > FAQs/tutorials? > > > > > > thank you, > > > -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 09:06:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18816 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:06:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from webserver.smginc.com (webserver.smginc.com [204.170.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18800 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:06:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com ([204.170.177.4]) by webserver.smginc.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13723) with SMTP id AAA132; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:07:46 -0500 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <34B13CF5@smginc.com>; Mon, 05 Jan 98 12:05:09 PST From: Adam Turoff To: "'perlsta@sunyit.edu'" Cc: hackers Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 12:04:00 PST Message-ID: <34B13CF5@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm interested in making a windows 95/NT port of Xfree86, > i plan on using DirectX to support fast accesses to the graphical hardware. [...] Sorry, but the last time I checked, DirectX was one of those Win32 technologies that's not fully supported on NT. That may have changed with a service release of somesort for either DirectX or NT. If you're looking for a free X server for Win32, why not look at the MicroImages X server? I forget where I found it, but it's probably 2 or 3 clicks away from Cygnus' UNIX on NT resource page. >From what I remember, MicroImages had the foresight to write a multiplatform GIS package that uses X. Rather than making a Win32 version, they ported a simple X server to Windows. Don't think you can change the window manager, but (1) it works, (2) it's free and (3) it's functional, if not fullblown X. HTH, -- Adam. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 09:24:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20654 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:24:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20079 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:18:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA23412; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:17:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:17:28 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Mitchell To: "David E. Wexelblat" cc: "'devel@XFree86.Org'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, David E. Wexelblat wrote: > Who is your target audience? Why on earth would I set up > a windows box that is doing nothing but running X? This > seems extraordinarily useless - if I wanted a dedicated > X machine, I'd run Linux on it. > > The only reason to put X on a Windows PC is interoperability. That's my opinion as well (minus the linux part). I run exceed at work in multiple window mode, it lets me get real work done. Full screen mode seems more kludgy, since I can't run windows and x11 apps side by side. However, my X needs are extremely slight, and I don't think it makes that much of a difference. The OS/2 (Warp) port of XF86 might be a good place to start. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 09:38:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA22205 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:38:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22190 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:37:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-10.ts-3.nyc.idt.net [169.132.97.10]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA02521; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:38:27 GMT Message-Id: <199801051338.NAA02521@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "David E. Wexelblat" , "'devel@XFree86.Org'" Cc: Subject: Re: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:32:23 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Who is your target audience? Why on earth would I set up > a windows box that is doing nothing but running X? This > seems extraordinarily useless - if I wanted a dedicated > X machine, I'd run Linux on it. > > The only reason to put X on a Windows PC is interoperability. no, that's not my point, being able to ALT-TAB or ctrl-esc out of it to task switch would be my point, not a lot of people want to install a 300+meg O/S just so they can get X. the reason i came up with the idea is that I'm at a college dorm, SUNYtech in NY, anyhow my roomates are always raving on about how unix is cool and easier to write programs on and blah blah blah... but they are not keen on installing it instead of win95 for several reasons, the disk space, the ton of configuration that has to be, and possible incomadible video cards. therefore if there was a fast free X server out there it would be very useful, ie. double click... MS-word, alt+tab... X... plus imagine how much distribution and press a free and _FAST_ (unlike the microimages server) would get if it would run under '95. -Alfred ---------- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alfred Perlstein > > Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 11:05 AM > > To: devel@XFree86.Org > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > Subject: Re: interested in working on windows port (sorry for > > cross post) > > > > i have no interest in making a "let windows be my window manager X" > > that is > > garbage, i've seen them and they are horrible, my main interest is > > getting > > a full screen port done with XDM logon abilities. using windows as my > > window manager gives me a chill and ruins the whole experiance for me > > :) > > > > if possible a "full screen in one window" would be a later project... > > > > i do not want to "stray" from the Xfree86 model, i would like to have > > this > > port be maintained easily, not as a one time port and forget about it > > deal > > where so much is kludged around that maintaining it is impossible. > > > > to me, DirectX+fullscreen is the way to go. > > > > i've seen "in window" X servers and the performance is horrid, why run > > X > > and make it slow? > > > > -Alfred > > > > ---------- > > > From: David E. Wexelblat > > > To: 'devel@XFree86.Org' > > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > > Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > > post) > > > Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:49 AM > > > > > > Well, I have a great deal of experience with PC X servers (check > > > out the work URL...). I have to be careful with what I say, as > > > we are a source licensee for one of the PC X server vendors, and > > > I've been inside their sources. I will only give some general > > > comments. > > > > > > 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server > > > manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX > > > only gets major performance improvements when it can take over > > > the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major > > > win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server > > > vendors use DirectX. > > > > > > That said - Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 3 provides most of > > > DirectX 3 for Windows NT. DirectX isn't supported at all prior to > > > SP3, and DirectX 5 support isn't planned to be available until > > > Windows NT 5.0 (which is currently in Beta1). > > > > > > 2) All the PC X servers operate in one of two modes: single-window > > > or multiple-window. Single-window is a traditional X server main > > > window, living in a single Windows window. Basically, the Windows > > > window becomes a single large framebuffer. This is easy to > > implement, > > > but X apps don't coexist well with Windows apps this way. > > > > > > Multi-window mode basically has no visible X root window. Each X > > > top-level window is a Windows top-level window. In this mode, the X > > > server provides some sort of local window manager, so that the X > > apps > > > are both ICCCM-compliant, and windows-friendly. The good ones even > > > recognize Motif window manager hints for decorations, etc. > > > > > > I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode > > > (well, > > > we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been > > told > > > do use single-window mode). > > > > > > 3) Palette management is a major headache. In a normal X server, > > the > > > X server controls the hardware palette, and can do what it wants. > > In a > > > PC X server, Windows controls the palette. There's a lot of code > > > involved > > > in getting X color handling to work "right" under Windows. > > > > > > In addition, most of the major PC X server vendors have implemented > > > 8-bit-pseudo-color visuals on top of 16/24/32-bit true-color > > visuals. > > > This > > > is because most PCs these days are in high/true-color mode, and most > > X > > > apps > > > fall down if the default visual isn't 8-bit pseudo-color. As far as > > I > > > know, > > > this is all done with software; I've been told that Windows provides > > no > > > way > > > to get to the RAMDAC to do it in hardware even if the RAMDAC > > supports > > > it. > > > > > > 4) Device management is also a pain (keyboard & mouse), because you > > have > > > to > > > go through windows. > > > > > > 5) Font management is interesting. All the PC X servers I have seen > > > have X > > > bitmap & scaled fonts, but not in .pcf format. They have them in > > > Windows > > > .fon format, and provide their own font compilers. I've never > > > completely > > > understood why they bother with this - if they're going to provide > > > X-specific > > > fonts, why not leave then in X-specific formats? No one has yet > > written > > > a > > > font server that allows use of native Windows fonts, that I have > > seen. > > > > > > -- > > > David Wexelblat Phone: (703) 803-3343 x370 > > > DataFocus Incorporated Fax: (703) 803-3344 > > > 12450 Fair Lakes Circle, Suite 400 mailto:dwex@datafocus.com > > > Fairfax, VA 22033-3821 http://www.datafocus.com > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Alfred Perlstein > > > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 1998 6:31 AM > > > > To: devel@XFree86.Org > > > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > > > Subject: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > > > > post) > > > > > > > > (please excuse the cross post, i'm really looking for help and > > this is > > > > a > > > > strange multiplatform subject...) > > > > > > > > I'm interested in making a windows 95/NT port of Xfree86, > > > > i plan on using DirectX to support fast accesses to the graphical > > > > hardware. > > > > > > > > if anyone has the time to answer a couple of questions it would be > > > > greatly > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > 1) can anyone recommend a free c/cpp compiler/enviornment for > > this? > > > > i've looked at DJGPP,RSXNT, and the cygnus thingy and so far: > > > > DJGPP doesn't support win32. > > > > RSXNT hardly is docmented and doesn't seem to be useful as a > > > > UNIX to WIN32 > > > > porting tool things like sockets don't seem to be implemented. > > > > cygnus doesn't appeal to me because of hardcore GPL license they > > > > have. > > > > > > > > i do NOT mind giving credit where credit is due... but i'm not > > > > too keen on > > > > releasing my source, i DO however, plan on the product being free. > > > > > > > > 2) if i use direct-X does anyone know if it will work on NT? i > > think > > > > mircosoft doesn't support DirectX on NT, or at least not past > > version > > > > 3... > > > > > > > > 3) what books can i get on the low level details of X? anything > > on > > > > how the > > > > X11 source tree is set up? anyone have any pointers to good > > > > FAQs/tutorials? > > > > > > > > thank you, > > > > -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 11:06:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00997 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00915 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:05:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06978; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:05:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd006927; Mon Jan 5 12:05:08 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA26601; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:04:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801051904.MAA26601@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: mounting a FreeBSD partition on NetBSD or SunOS To: bsdean@gte.net Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:04:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801010219.VAA04068@corona.unx.sas.com> from "Brian Dean" at Dec 31, 97 09:19:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I have a few questions about filesystems created by one Unix variant > and being mounting by another. Generally not possible because of byte-order and other issues. The code Julian has done for partitioning schema recognition can address this, to some extent, but obviously it (1) only runs on FreeBSD so far, and (2) you would need to write recognition and layers for non FreeBSD recognized types (ie: the code is not yet exhaustive). Even after resolving this, after which you would have a proper device with nothingbut a foreign FS on it, there are byte order issues to resolve. > I'm running NetBSD 1.2.1 on SPARC at home and FreeBSD 3.0 (late > november snap) on x86 at work. I have an Iomega Jaz drive (removable > media) and would like to be able to create a Unix filesystem that is > mountable by both systems that I can transport between machines. I believe the NetBSD/SPARC port uses SunOS UFS layout. This means that it uses the correct byte order, not the Intel byte order, to lay out non-character values on disk. There are, in addition, issues of structure packing (effectively, you need to use "#pragma pack(1)" on structure declarations to ensure portability between machines, and padding needs to be explicit). It is not as difficult as it would first seem to resolve byte order issues -- just abstract non-character field references via macro, and make the macro conditional on a new mount flag -- but this is not likely to make it in as a default, given that it adds an extra compare/branch/jump and a possible dtohl/dtohs/htodl/htodl per reference/set. That's a lot of slowdown. > First off, is there a way to tell NetBSD/Sparc to honor the PC boot > block and partition table and use it to find the mountable FreeBSD UFS > partition? Port the DEVFS code and SLICE stack stuff to NetBSD. > Thirdly, even if one could do one of the above, would the file system > be mountable? Is the byte-ordering between processor architectures > (big/little endian) an issue here, or are the file system structures > as they reside on the disk, portable across architectures? No, and No. > And Fourth, if creating a such filesystem is not an option, what other > options do I have? As a (final) last resort can I do something like: > FreeBSD> tar cf - . | dd of=/dev/sd4c # jaz drive > NetBSD> dd if=/dev/sd4c | tar xf - The closest you could get would be to use a FATFS, which has a defined byte order. The CD9660 would work as well, but it is badly structured for read/write, and read/write is not supported in the implementations on either OS. I have more than a little interest in this type of thing myself. I'd be willing to give advice and probably some code towards at least making FreeBSD recognize NetBSD FS's from different architectures. Let me know if you get serious about putting in some hours on the problem. It would be best for me if the work was carried out on JAZ cartridges (that's where most of my NetBSD installations live). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 11:25:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03059 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:25:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from consys.com (consys.com [209.60.202.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03036 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:24:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rcarter@consys.com) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (dnstoo.ConSys.COM [209.60.202.195]) by consys.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA29493; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:21:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dnstoo.consys.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA11407; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:23:58 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199801051923.MAA11407@dnstoo.consys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Alfred Perlstein" cc: "David E. Wexelblat" , "'devel@XFree86.Org'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:32:23 EST." <199801051338.NAA02521@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:23:58 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk }> Who is your target audience? Why on earth would I set up }> a windows box that is doing nothing but running X? This }> seems extraordinarily useless - if I wanted a dedicated }> X machine, I'd run Linux on it. }> }> The only reason to put X on a Windows PC is interoperability. } }no, that's not my point, being able to ALT-TAB or ctrl-esc out of it to }task switch would be my point, not a lot of people want to install a }300+meg O/S just so they can get X. the reason i came up with the idea is }that I'm at a college dorm, SUNYtech in NY, anyhow my roomates are always }raving on about how unix is cool and easier to write programs on and blah }blah blah... but they are not keen on installing it instead of win95 for }several reasons, the disk space, the ton of configuration that has to be, }and possible incomadible video cards. therefore if there was a fast free X }server out there it would be very useful, ie. double click... MS-word, }alt+tab... X... } }plus imagine how much distribution and press a free and _FAST_ (unlike the }microimages server) would get if it would run under '95. } }-Alfred er, why is this in freebsd-hackers? Since it's here, I'll first note that I spend upwards of 10h a day with exceed managing my FreeBSD display on NT, because I need exmh and unix netscape and a (solid) gcc and... well NT is so goddawful ugly... I'll secondly note that really, hardware is so amazingly cheap that one can eat that cake... for less than 2K USD, you can have TWO (2) fast systems connected up via crossovered 100Mb NICs, each with 64 MB of memory (say), 4+ GB of disk, etc, sharing one large monitor, like I do both at work and at home. One can then have a sane network connection to the world, as an increasingly important benefit. And you get to have an NT box around so your kids can play games. ;-) I'll thirdly note that it has been a long time indeed since X has been slow enough to even care about. I'll fourthly note that if linux is a stretch for these people, then they probably ought to stick with Bill's best windows until they grow more adventurous. So who was that intended audience, again? BTW, there is already a free NT X-server out there, check out the Cygnus pages for a pointer. Cheers, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 11:25:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03077 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:25:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03023 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:24:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29242; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:23:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd029187; Mon Jan 5 12:23:43 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA27274; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:23:33 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801051923.MAA27274@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:23:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd@core.acroal.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd@atipa.com, AdamT@smginc.com In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Jan 1, 98 02:52:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > IMJO, enormous amount of work. In my work, we just add some clearly > defined subsystems to an existing product and it represents several > engineering years of effort. There is really no need to do all that, I > think; There is a pretty good engine out there that is lacking in specific > areas which we are already addressing. There may be others. Were there > enough interest in our work, we could generalize it so other RDBMS engines > could enjoy the benefits too. Doing the reverse is very tricky; O/S > specific changes are inherently non-portable (TerrY?). But we are trying > to be as clean as we can. Sometimes it's worth it. If, for example, FreeBSD could export an FS-level transactioning subsystem for use by a database (say from a general implementation of soft updates using an event/handler based architecture), then there would be such significant performance wins that you'd have to be an idiot to not go for it. On the other hand, you're right: making something OS specific (or even compiler technology specific) is inherently bad, mostly because self-limiting portability self-limits the scope of the projects relevance. WINE is a good example here: it's not WIN32, and it's Intel-centric, so you don't get the hot guns from the Intel camp, or any guns at all from the non-Intel camps. If he were truly going to clone a commercial product (preferrably, an associative database), then there's a good chance that depending on FreeBSD features would cause those features to migrate into other OS's. Personally, I wouldn't do a clone unless (1) it was an associative database, not a relational one, like IBM's FOCUS or RAIMA's dbVista, and (2) There were mature OS features that, as part of my agenda, I wanted migrated into other OS's. Most clone work is not worth doing unless it raises the bar across the board. Clone work is, IMO, a tool for raising bars, and not a useful end in and of itself. FreeBSD is clone work, and it's useful because it can be used by commercial vendors. You can raise the bar for everyone, not just those willing to give away their code under the GPL. That's why I do FreeBSD and not Linux: Linux can raise bars as well, but the cost of using the code commercially is too high for it to be an effective method of encouraging across-the-board progress. Even so, FreeBSD is frequently too conservative (read: slow to adopt new technology) for my tastes... but at least it's faster than USL. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 12:12:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06938 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:12:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06810 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:10:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA13008 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:10:59 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256583.00745BD8 ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:10:56 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256583.0073B33A.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:10:54 -0300 Subject: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk More bugging^^Wquestions: * The excelent device driver squeleton creator shell happens to create a file (called "nameio.h") a install it on /usr/include/sys, for the express purpose of IOCTL defines. Now, many drivers use /usr/include/machine instead. Which should I prefer? * My device driver should be used mainly by other kernel routines. How should I proceed? Is there a standard interface or something? * The $#*@*$ card needs timeouts from one to ten (!!!) seconds, and has no IRQ, for reads and writes! Now, blocking a process is easy (I suppose -- I haven't checked out how do it yet), but how should I proceed regarding the procedures called by other parts of the kernel? * Regarding major/minor number (I don't quite grok that yet), may I suppose the script did the right thing (current system)? Insightful thoughts would be appreciated. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 12:47:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09999 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:47:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (firewall-user@alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA09583 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:42:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <53067(3)>; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:42:03 PST Received: by crevenia.parc.xerox.com id <177484>; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:41:49 -0800 From: Bill Fenner To: bsdean@gte.net, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: mounting a FreeBSD partition on NetBSD or SunOS Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <98Jan5.124149pst.177484@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:41:39 PST Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Just as a point of reference, NeXTStep/486 uses big-endian filesystems. You can take a NeXTStep disk from a Sun to a PC to an HP to ... and just mount it. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 13:52:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA17574 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fw.bluestone.com (firewall-user@fw.bluestone.com [199.99.173.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA17519 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:51:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bhargava@bluestone.COM) Received: by fw.bluestone.com; id QAA05714; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:58:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from blustone.operations.bluestone.com(204.107.210.200) by fw.bluestone.com via smap (3.2) id xma005642; Mon, 5 Jan 98 16:57:52 -0500 Received: from psgserver by blustone.operations.bluestone.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13802; Mon, 5 Jan 98 16:45:19 EST Message-Id: <34B15474.ABD322C@bluestone.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 16:45:24 -0500 From: bhargava chittamuri Organization: bluestone consulting, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Cc: bhargava@bluestone.COM Subject: metasend and attachments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk hi, I am trying to develop an application which can forward multiple multiple attachments using a combination of metasend and sendmail THe attachements (gif and jpg files for ex.,) are visible at the recieving end but the actual name of the file(s) sent gets lost somewhere Could anyone suggest a solution to my problem This is a brief description of my usage of these 2 commands (1)metasend -b -f datafile1 -m 'text/plain'\ -n -f gifFile1 -m 'image/gif'\ -n -f gifFile2 -m 'image/gif'\ -s " Subject matter"\ -t bhargava@bluestone.com\ -o tempFile (2) /usr/ucb/sendmail -oi -t < tempFile thanks bhargava -- =============================================================== Bhargava Chittamuri Phone: (609) 727-4600 Bluestone 1000 Briggs Road Email: bhargava@bluestone.com Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054 Web: http://www.bluestone.com/ =============================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 14:03:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18701 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:03:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18178 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enetsj@piemza.edu.ar) Received: from pfultra.phil.uni-sb.de (pf4.phil.uni-sb.de [134.96.54.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05244 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.phil.uni-sb.de (root@pf2.phil.uni-sb.de [134.96.82.13]) by pfultra.phil.uni-sb.de (8.8.8/8.8.8/961213chris) with ESMTP id WAA19119 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:57:18 +0100 (MET) Received: from cofemz.piemza.edu.ar (cofemz.piemza.edu.ar [200.10.219.2]) by www.phil.uni-sb.de (8.8.6/8.8.6/961001chris) with SMTP id WAA29796 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:57:12 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199801052157.WAA29796@www.phil.uni-sb.de> Received: from cs2-async3.piemza.edu.ar by cofemz.piemza.edu.ar with SMTP (1.37.109.4/16.3) id AA23415; Mon, 5 Jan 98 18:55:53 -0300 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 18:55:53 -0300 X-Sender: enetsj@cofemz (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: saar-lists-freebsd-hackers@pf4.phil.uni-sb.de From: Windows Subject: HELP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk HELP From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 15:52:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA27322 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:52:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA27306 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA29109; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:52:02 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:52:02 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: mii device Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hey folks, Running a -STABLE kernel on a new machine, I get this on boot-up: .. vx0 <3COM 3C905 Fast Etherlink XL PCI> rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:15 mii[*mii*]: disable 'auto select' with DOS util! address 00:60:08:3e:08:66 vga0 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:16 ... What's this "mii" bit about? The ethernet card is a combo 10/100 card, I believe, so I presume this means I should set it manually to run on '10'. What are the consequences of not doing this? I don't have a DOS partition right now I can do this with... Wondering, Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 16:23:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01115 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:23:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01058 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:23:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27496; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:22:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:22:51 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Brian Handy cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mii device In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk mii - media independent interface. does your card have an MII port, too? it would be a connector that resembles a high density scsi plug. -c On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > Hey folks, > > Running a -STABLE kernel on a new machine, I get this on boot-up: > > .. > vx0 <3COM 3C905 Fast Etherlink XL PCI> rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:15 > mii[*mii*]: disable 'auto select' with DOS util! address 00:60:08:3e:08:66 > vga0 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:16 > ... > > > What's this "mii" bit about? The ethernet card is a combo 10/100 card, I > believe, so I presume this means I should set it manually to run on '10'. > What are the consequences of not doing this? I don't have a DOS partition > right now I can do this with... > > Wondering, > > > Brian > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 16:36:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA03231 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:36:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03117 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:36:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA04071; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:27:15 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:27:15 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: Chris Timmons Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mii device In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >mii - media independent interface. does your card have an MII port, too? >it would be a connector that resembles a high density scsi plug. Huh...I only see the SCSI-3 interface, the MIDI game port/sound card (I think this is on the motherboard), and...a couple of little 4-pin connectors labeled USB 0 and USB 1. I didn't order this machine, and I don't actually have a spec sheet for it, so I'm still a bit perplexed by the parts in it! Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 17:44:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09327 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:44:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA09308 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:44:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA30812; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:44:40 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:44:40 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: tcsh question Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hey folks, I've got a tcsh question for somebody. I have some csh shell scripts (yep, #!/bin/csh) that create a LOT of environmental variables. Recently, either some change to tcsh (or some change to the scripts I'm running) has caused a problem. Here's the line from my .cshrc file: source /usr/ssw/gen/setup/setup.ssw Not too innocuous...this script in turn calls a mess of other scripts to set up a bunch of astrophysics stuff I use with IDL. (www.rsinc.com) My default shell is tcsh, I'm running the current version. When I fire this script off, I get this noise: kriek:~ ->source .cshrc SSW setup will include: Type to start SSW IDL ^E\242@\222@x@^Z^ALoad: Command not found. ^A^F\314ALA\312@\202^HERROR:: Too many arguments. kriek:~ -> If I drop into csh and then source this, no problems. If I fire it off with a "csh [...]setup.ssw" line it works, but I guess some of the environmentals don't jump around in quite the same way. AND, it doesn't do this on any of our other platforms. I tried 'unlimit', I've peeked briefly at the login.conf stuff and turned away quickly. I've tried running it as root. Nothing seems to change the fundamental problem, and it's hard to diagnose where the problem is -- it acts like it runs out of some sort of memory and corrupts itself, but I'm *really* unaware of what's going on here. When I start sprinkling echos throught the scripts, the problem changes and the place where it crashes is always totally innocuous. Does anyone have an idea where to look to figure this out? How can I be more vague? :-) I'm too confused to even present a clear picture of what's causing me problems! Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 18:05:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10978 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:05:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10960 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:05:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00719; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:27:25 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801060157.MAA00719@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:10:54 -0300." <83256583.0073B33A.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 12:27:24 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > More bugging^^Wquestions: > > * The excelent device driver squeleton creator shell happens to create a > file (called "nameio.h") a install it on /usr/include/sys, for the express > purpose of IOCTL defines. Now, many drivers use /usr/include/machine > instead. Which should I prefer? sys/sys is correct for machine-independant drivers, sys/i386/include is correct for i386-specific drivers. > * My device driver should be used mainly by other kernel routines. How > should I proceed? Is there a standard interface or something? You need to be more specific about this before it's possible to give a really useful answer. Look at the network drivers and disk drivers for two sorts of drivers that are used primarily by other kernel code. > * The $#*@*$ card needs timeouts from one to ten (!!!) seconds, and has no > IRQ, for reads and writes! Now, blocking a process is easy (I suppose -- I > haven't checked out how do it yet), but how should I proceed regarding the > procedures called by other parts of the kernel? It depends on the context of potential callers to your code. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 18:18:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12046 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:18:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.intol.com (intol.com [204.149.245.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12025 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:17:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from club@intol.com) Received: from [204.149.245.110] by mail.intol.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.01) with SMTP id CWT167 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:06:37 -0500 From: club@intol.com (CLUB) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: INTOL - 17 X-Mailer: Allaire Cold Fusion 2.0 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:06:37 -0500 Message-ID: <19980105205336071.CWT167@[204.149.245.110]> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Take advantage of our Reflex(CXT OEM) 17" SVGA, Non Interlaced, .28dp, 2 year warranty Monitor's, While Supplies last $399.00 Call 1-800-551-1449 http://www.intol.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 18:50:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15672 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:50:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from concerto.neosoft.com (concerto.neosoft.com [206.109.14.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15642 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:50:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mail2@concerto.neosoft.com) Received: from localhost (mail2@localhost) by concerto.neosoft.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA00560 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:50:10 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mail2@concerto.neosoft.com) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:50:10 -0600 (CST) From: Mail2 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: HP printer and samba Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I am using Samba and a HP deskjet printer. Everything works fine except for an extra blank page at the end of each print job. I suspect this could be an extra ctrl-D problem... does anybody have a filter that gets rid of the ctrl-D? Or does anybody know what it is if it's not a ctrl-d thing? Mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 19:50:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21664 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:50:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21612; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:50:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA03257; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma003255; Mon Jan 5 19:49:46 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA07978; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:49:46 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199801060349.TAA07978@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: several networking questions ... In-Reply-To: <19971227114414.06459@lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Dec 27, 97 11:44:14 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:49:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: onur@dpc.kfupm.edu.sa, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey writes: > > (2) If I have two 56K modems, and two telephone lines, can I dial my ISP > > using both telehone lines and achieve 112Kb/s data transfer rate for ftp > > or http connections ? There is a program "mpd" which does this, assuming your ISP has equipment that supports it and enables it for you. It's in the ports collection under "net". -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 20:06:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23192 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA22856 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:01:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA10470; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:01:22 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:01:22 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Revisiting my shell script problem, I started with this: > kriek:~ ->source .cshrc > SSW setup will include: > > Type to start SSW IDL > ^E\242@\222@x@^Z^ALoad: Command not found. > ^A^F\314ALA\312@\202^HERROR:: Too many arguments. > kriek:~ -> I noticed if I ran this as root...it worked fine! This leads me to believe it may be a problem with my @#$^! /etc/login.conf file. Attempts to make it work so far aren't getting me anywhere, but it feels like that's where the problem lies. Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 20:11:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23814 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:11:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA23085 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:04:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 6 Jan 1998 04:10:42 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:10:41 -0700 (MST) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: Mail2 cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chuckr@glue.umd.edu Subject: Re: HP printer and samba In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I had to set up a different printcap entry for samba for that exact reason. It was the exact same as my default entry, but added a :sf: for "suppress footer". -CURRENT broke lpd a while ago according to Chuck Robey. He had the same problem on Dec 8th, but it wasn't the /etc/printcap. Chuck, did you ever figure that one out? Kevin On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Mail2 wrote: > > I am using Samba and a HP deskjet printer. Everything works fine except > for an extra blank page at the end of each print job. I suspect this > could be an extra ctrl-D problem... does anybody have a filter that gets > rid of the ctrl-D? Or does anybody know what it is if it's not a ctrl-d > thing? > > Mike > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 20:16:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA24462 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:16:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammurabi.nh.ultra.net (hammurabi.nh.ultra.net [205.162.79.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23809 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:11:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gfraize@nh.ultranet.com) Received: from nh.ultranet.com (d11.dial-7.exr.nh.ultra.net [207.41.148.203]) by hammurabi.nh.ultra.net (8.8.5/ult.n14767) with ESMTP id XAA30657; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:10:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34B1AD63.B00DFABC@nh.ultranet.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 23:04:51 -0500 From: Greg Fraize Organization: Just me! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? References: <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5497C5A5873DBB07A2CA964C" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5497C5A5873DBB07A2CA964C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MY my old college they just switch what lang. student learn in programming one. two years ago they change it to C++, now this spring it is going to be java..... Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Curious, are people using FreeBSD to develop Java apps ? > > >From my brief exposure to jdk1.1.5 , Swing, Beans, etc.., it seems > that there is enough critical infra-structure to create useful apps > also there are plenty of lessons there in OO methodology -- > actually Java looks more like a cross-road of OO techniques. > > This is the have been trying to solve for FreeBSD : > Provide or highlight a technology which people can actually use > to develop applications. > > My first venture was to port X to 386bsd 0.0 , then > porting of Inteviews, and later on tcl . Must say that neither of > those technologies have been sufficient or catalysts for > developing applications. > > So is Java the technology which will launch application development > in FreeBSD?? > > When I am more up to speed on Java , my test target application will be > a graphical front-end for my Pilot 8) > > Cheers, > Amancio --------------5497C5A5873DBB07A2CA964C Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Gregory Fraize Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Gregory Fraize n: Fraize;Gregory email;internet: gfraize@nh.ultranet.com x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------5497C5A5873DBB07A2CA964C-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 20:30:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA26736 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:30:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26691 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24356; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:29:55 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from ache) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:29:53 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Brian Handy cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > kriek:~ ->source .cshrc > SSW setup will include: > > Type to start SSW IDL > ^E\242@\222@x@^Z^ALoad: Command not found. > ^A^F\314ALA\312@\202^HERROR:: Too many arguments. > kriek:~ -> It is known bug somehow connected with libc/nls library memory damage. Since it is relatively hard to trace, I not fix it yet. Try to set LANG to C as workaround. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 20:49:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29427 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:49:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA29378 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:48:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@nomis.Simon-Shapiro.ORG) Received: (qmail 13532 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jan 1998 04:46:27 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199801051923.MAA27274@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 20:46:27 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) Cc: AdamT@smginc.com, freebsd@atipa.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd@core.acroal.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On 05-Jan-98 Terry Lambert wrote: >> IMJO, enormous amount of work. In my work, we just add some clearly >> defined subsystems to an existing product and it represents several >> engineering years of effort. There is really no need to do all that, I >> think; There is a pretty good engine out there that is lacking in >> specific >> areas which we are already addressing. There may be others. Were there >> enough interest in our work, we could generalize it so other RDBMS >> engines >> could enjoy the benefits too. Doing the reverse is very tricky; O/S >> specific changes are inherently non-portable (TerrY?). But we are >> trying >> to be as clean as we can. > > Sometimes it's worth it. If, for example, FreeBSD could export an > FS-level transactioning subsystem for use by a database (say from > a general implementation of soft updates using an event/handler > based architecture), then there would be such significant performance > wins that you'd have to be an idiot to not go for it. I tried to raise interest in doing some of this work in FreeBSD and met (almost) zero interest. I am not paricularly interested in cloning any particular database engine. I find most of them boringly similar in user features. I think that building certain facilities into an O/S that can be easily be used by database engines (with little regard to topology of the DBS) is useful. To this end I have built an in-kernel Distributed Lock Manager that is simple and easy to use and am working on developing a simple in-kernel Distributed Storage Manager than will allow DBMS developers to use a secure, transaction oriented, distributed storage medium. This is, in many cases, half the battle. > On the other hand, you're right: making something OS specific (or > even compiler technology specific) is inherently bad, mostly because > self-limiting portability self-limits the scope of the projects > relevance. WINE is a good example here: it's not WIN32, and it's > Intel-centric, so you don't get the hot guns from the Intel camp, or > any guns at all from the non-Intel camps. > > If he were truly going to clone a commercial product (preferrably, > an associative database), then there's a good chance that depending > on FreeBSD features would cause those features to migrate into > other OS's. > > Personally, I wouldn't do a clone unless (1) it was an associative > database, not a relational one, like IBM's FOCUS or RAIMA's dbVista, > and (2) There were mature OS features that, as part of my agenda, I > wanted migrated into other OS's. > > Most clone work is not worth doing unless it raises the bar across > the board. Clone work is, IMO, a tool for raising bars, and not > a useful end in and of itself. > > FreeBSD is clone work, and it's useful because it can be used by > commercial vendors. You can raise the bar for everyone, not just > those willing to give away their code under the GPL. That's why > I do FreeBSD and not Linux: Linux can raise bars as well, but the > cost of using the code commercially is too high for it to be an > effective method of encouraging across-the-board progress. Even > so, FreeBSD is frequently too conservative (read: slow to adopt > new technology) for my tastes... but at least it's faster than USL. Terry, I'll build the storage manager if you build the DBMS. Deal? :-) Simon From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 21:10:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01260 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:10:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from emu.sourcee.com (emu.sourcee.com [199.201.159.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01180 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:09:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nrice@emu.sourcee.com) Received: (from nrice@localhost) by emu.sourcee.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) id AAA15988; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:09:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19980106000948.03566@emu.sourcee.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:09:48 -0500 From: Norman C Rice To: Mail2 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HP printer and samba References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Mail2 on Mon, Jan 05, 1998 at 08:50:10PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, Jan 05, 1998 at 08:50:10PM -0600, Mail2 wrote: > > I am using Samba and a HP deskjet printer. Everything works fine except > for an extra blank page at the end of each print job. I suspect this > could be an extra ctrl-D problem... does anybody have a filter that gets > rid of the ctrl-D? Or does anybody know what it is if it's not a ctrl-d > thing? > > Mike I believe that the Ctrl-F ('\f') character will cause the formfeed. Did you specify `sf' in the /etc/printcap entry? -- Regards, Norman C. Rice, Jr. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 22:22:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA06123 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:22:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06089 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:20:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from detlev!joelh@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp96.wcc.net [208.6.232.96]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05483; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:17:24 -0600 (CST) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.7) id AAA04044; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:18:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:18:42 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801060618.AAA04044@detlev.UUCP> To: steve@visint.co.uk CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Stephen Roome on Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:54:19 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: Weird malloc problem. From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I just discovered that I can happily malloc 512M without any problem, > even ps is sure that I've managed this, but seeing as I've only got about > 150M total virtual memory available I'm a bit surprised. Should I be ? IIRC (and I'm no expert), it is possible to sbrk your processes' entire addressable memory space (all 2^32 bits), and never use it. However, when you actually try to use it, then you get a core dump (I think a SIGSEGV). So, you call malloc, which sbrk's the block plus its overhead. Then malloc then puts its own before the block. At that point, then a actual page of virtual memory is assigned to the block, not before. I believe this is correct, but I could be mistaken. -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 00:12:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA15107 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:12:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15081 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:11:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA17117; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:11:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA24809; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:11:46 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:11:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199801060811.BAA24809@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Brian Handy Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > kriek:~ ->source .cshrc > > SSW setup will include: > > > > Type to start SSW IDL > > ^E\242@\222@x@^Z^ALoad: Command not found. > > ^A^F\314ALA\312@\202^HERROR:: Too many arguments. > > kriek:~ -> > > I noticed if I ran this as root...it worked fine! This leads me to > believe it may be a problem with my @#$^! /etc/login.conf file. Attempts > to make it work so far aren't getting me anywhere, but it feels like > that's where the problem lies. Try doing 'unlimit' and see if it works then. If it doesn't, then it's probably not something in /etc/login.conf, but a permissions problem somewhere. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 00:23:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA15910 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:23:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dog.farm.org (gw-hssi-2.farm.org [209.66.103.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15903 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:22:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dog.farm.org!dk) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id AAA03971; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:20:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:20:34 -0800 (PST) From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199801060820.AAA03971@dog.farm.org> To: pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au (Peter Childs) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pptp Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Organization: FARM Computing Association Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In article <199801010909.TAA19362@al.imforei.apana.org.au> you wrote: > In article <34833C08.5B230D62@intcomm.net> you wrote: > > If anyone has any suggestions or ideas the following: > Does it specifically have to be PPTP? I have used ppp (ijppp) over > tcp/ip before so that one server appeared on another's local > network via the internet. Pretty interesting stuff (see > the ijppp manual if you find it). ppp over tcp indeed works, but the performance and stability is pretty bad. the delay on your `physical' link and especially packet loss on it can render tunnelled ppp link pretty unusable. > I've seen a tunneling implementation over IP using the tun devices > as well (without the other stuff in ijppp) that Mark Newton > wrote (newton@dotat.org) I have used (hacked) ip-in-ip implementation available as http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=1154 with great success (compatible with cisco routers, too.) is there anybody else interested in ip tunneling protocols ? -- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 01:37:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA22156 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:37:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atena.eurocontrol.fr (atena.uneec.eurocontrol.fr [147.196.69.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA22090 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:37:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from philippe.brun@eurocontrol.fr) Received: by atena.eurocontrol.fr; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA31494; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:35:42 +0100 Received: from brteec1 (brteec1.eurocontrol.fr) by eurocontrol.fr with SMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA111659135; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:32:15 +0100 Received: by brteec1 with Microsoft Mail id <34B27920@brteec1>; Tue, 06 Jan 98 10:34:08 PST From: BRUN Philippe To: FREEBSD Date: Tue, 06 Jan 98 10:24:00 PST Message-Id: <34B27920@brteec1> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Salut, My machine has 32 Mbyte of RAM I have 3 isa cards mapped beetween 15 Mb et 16 Mb I have a problem with address beetween 15 Mb et 16 Mb, this Ram exist in the system and in isa card I want to create a hole in the system memory to use isa card Ram for these address How do I proceed with FREEBSD 2.2.5 ? TIA --------------------------------------------------------- Philippe BRUN EEC BP15 F-91222 Bretigny s/Orge Cedex France Tel:+33 01 69 88 72 78 Fax:+33 01 69 88 73 33 e-mail: philippe.brun@eurocontrol.fr --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 01:54:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23950 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:54:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23944 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:54:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gozer@ludd.luth.se) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (gozer@father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20128; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:54:15 +0100 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:54:13 +0100 (MET) From: Johan Larsson To: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is a problem with the port. One solution is to install the port, then compile tcsh _without_ patches (just right out of the box) and install just the tcsh binary! This will make it all work. The port is damaged. Johan On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, [KOI8-R] áÎÄÒÅÊ þÅÒÎÏ× wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > > > kriek:~ ->source .cshrc > > SSW setup will include: > > > > Type to start SSW IDL > > ^E\242@\222@x@^Z^ALoad: Command not found. > > ^A^F\314ALA\312@\202^HERROR:: Too many arguments. > > kriek:~ -> > > It is known bug somehow connected with libc/nls library memory > damage. Since it is relatively hard to trace, I not fix it yet. > Try to set LANG to C as workaround. > > -- > Andrey A. Chernov > > http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ > > > -- * mailto:gozer@ludd.luth.se * http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/gozer/ * * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ * From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:08:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA24988 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:08:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from core.acroal.com (firewall0.acroal.com [209.24.61.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA24983 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:08:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by core.acroal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA01403; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:07:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:07:56 -0800 (PST) From: FreeBSD Hacker To: Simon Shapiro cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk With regard to that channel - i have been unable to locate any windows odbc-->postgresql drivers worth their weight in sand. openlink software claims to have some, but a) there middleware is obscenely priced, and b) i have yet to find and working drivers. > IMHO, one will be better off with PostgreSQL. Stay tuned to this > channel for more important news in this regard. > > ---------- > > > Sincerely Yours, > > Simon Shapiro > Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:09:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25075 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:09:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from core.acroal.com (firewall0.acroal.com [209.24.61.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25065 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:09:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by core.acroal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA01407; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:09:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:09:29 -0800 (PST) From: FreeBSD Hacker To: Julian Elischer cc: Jim Bryant , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Well, give us some numbers then. $$$ On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: > Ok let;s put it another way.. > I was trying to guage how much af a market there would be for a freeBSD > binary of informix's new OODB. > Most of the work of geting it ported would have to be done in a FBSD > skunkworks as I really doubt thare is enough of a market for a full-on > port. (such as Oracle have). > > >From the non-responce I received, it would seem that Informix woul dnot > be able to make a case for a freeBSD port of any kind, no matter how they > tried to lower the cost. > > julian > > > > On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: > > > In reply: > > > I've been talking to an Informix-type, who when asked if there > > > could be an informix portt to FreeBSD said.. > > > "maybe" "anything for a buck" > > > > > > is there actually anyone outnthere who would pay a regular > > > informix price for a FreeBSD runnable Informix (IUS) > > > > yes. > > > > > with a downgraded "We understand that this is not a fully > > > supported product" type of agreement? > > > > no. > > > > question: unsupported by informix, or unsupported by FreeBSD, Inc.? > > > > If I pay FULL PRICE for Informix, I EXPECT FULL SUPPORT from Informix. > > > > jim > > -- > > All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, > > think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or > > radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw > > voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:14:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25482 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:14:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from penrose.isocor.ie (penrose.isocor.ie [194.106.155.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25478 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:14:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter.edwards@penrose.isocor.ie) Received: from plank (194.106.155.26) by penrose.isocor.ie; 6 Jan 1998 10:13:31 +0000 Message-ID: <34B20383.222E6797@penrose.isocor.ie> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 10:12:19 +0000 From: Peter Edwards Organization: ISOCOR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Handy CC: Chris Timmons , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mii device X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, >mii - media independent interface. does your card have an MII port, too? Some cards (many of the DEC 2114[023] devices and the Intel Pro100/B at least) have an on-board MII-compliant PHY device that controls the physical layer interface (ie, its what is wired to the TP connection on the board). It'll do things like auto-detect the network speed and duplex mode. There IS a standard MII connector. The idea behind this (as far as I understand) is given a particular NIC, you can plug a different MII PHY into it, and use the card with a different medium. Eg, get a Fibre, 10-BaseT, 100-BaseTX, or 100-BaseT4 PHY, and plug in to the wire. Hope that helps. -- Peter. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:20:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25929 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:20:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from core.acroal.com (firewall0.acroal.com [209.24.61.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25922 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:20:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by core.acroal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA01424; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:19:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:19:57 -0800 (PST) From: FreeBSD Hacker To: Jim Bryant cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199712300641.AAA04909@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get PostGreSQL to work with windows, unsuccessfully. Second, I think that the bottom line is that FreeBSD needs to have its own integrated database system based on noone elses technology. This will be a winner, because we all know that anything written by and specifically for the community is going to be 10x more efficient than any 2 bit half-ass commercial port. Also since freebsd is strong on the ISP community this will serve to strengthen it there as I hear that ISP billing systems are a very big deal these days (mucho dolores). So bottom line is a DBMS built 10% into freebsd substructure that can run on PC hardware 5x faster that commericial products under NotTested is going to be the choice of professionals as long as it supports some in place communication with windows (read: Interfaces like some commercial, preferably MS product to winbloze machines, i.e let ms write the OpenDataBaseCrap for you.) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:50:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA27655 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:50:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omega.noc.easynet.net (omega.noc.easynet.net [193.131.248.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA27317 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:45:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chrisy@omega.noc.easynet.net) Received: (qmail 16061 invoked by uid 1001); 6 Jan 1998 10:45:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19980106104520.25045@flix.net> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:45:20 +0000 From: Chrisy Luke To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Multipath Routing. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Organization: The Flirble Internet Exchange X-URL: http://www.flix.net/ X-FTP: ftp://ftp.flirble.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is a scouting survey to see if anyone else is interested in what I've been playing with... I'm just finishing off a pretty neat kernel hack I started last week to implement multipath routing in the BSD kernel, using FreeBSD as my development base. Not much has changed across the BSD's or time to the code I've changed so it should be portable to other BSD's quite easily. What it changes is the rule that an entry in the routing table can only have one next-hop gateway. Unlike Sun's implementation of the same. this load balances across the installed gateways for a route. Sun's method merely allowed two nodes in the patricia tree to have the same network and netmask. On route lookup, it finds the first one and disregards any others. You end up with a routing table that looks something like: chrisy@om[~]> netstat -rn Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default UGSc 3 138832 193.131.248.183 46278 fxp0 *193.131.248.254 46277 fxp0 193.131.248.186 46277 fxp0 127.0.0.1 *127.0.0.1 UH 0 2 lo0 193.131.248 *link#1 UC 0 0 193.131.248.2 *0:0:f8:30:2:4b UHLW 0 13785 fxp0 1198 193.131.248.24 *0:0:c0:53:22:e4 UHLW 0 1 fxp0 697 193.131.248.97 *8:0:3:22:47:ae UHLW 0 0 fxp0 572 193.131.248.173 *0:0:c0:3a:22:e4 UHLW 0 772 fxp0 782 193.131.248.179 *0:0:c0:b0:3b:e7 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1081 193.131.248.180 *8:0:3:23:15:e5 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 571 193.131.248.183 *0:0:c0:78:22:e4 UHLW 4 0 fxp0 682 193.131.248.185 *0:0:c0:6e:22:e4 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1194 193.131.248.186 *0:0:c0:9c:b1:e3 UHLW 2 0 fxp0 1170 193.131.248.187 *0:0:c0:5c:10:dc UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1198 193.131.248.254 *0:0:f8:30:98:a8 UHLW 4 6076 fxp0 1184 195.40.1 UGSc 0 0 *193.131.248.183 0 fxp0 193.131.248.186 0 fxp0 Note the subtle changes. The '*' that preceeds some of the Gateway fields shows the target of the next packet to hit ip_output() and is destined for that network. Note also that each gateway has it's own Use and netif field. Unfortunately it required quite a bastardisation of the PF_ROUTE protocol, so all routing tools needed to be modified. I'm presently convincing gated that it wants to talk multipath too, where the largest benefits lie. My prime intention for this feature is in a core-of-the-network scenario where an IP network has a number of unix nodes and a unix-based set of BGP speakers, with multiple core routers. These core routers are the default routes for your regular unix nodes. Using Router discovery, you can identify all of thse core routers, but it only ever uses the one with the lowest IP address. That router sees all of the load and the others remain idle. This will remove that imbalance. If anyone is interested, I'll put my patches up (they are in beta form at present - there don't appear to be any leaks but I won't know for sure until gated loads a full routing table onto it... :-) Cheers, Chris. -- == chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org. == Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:57:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA28115 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA28111 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:57:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from com-pipp01 (node27.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.27]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA27709; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:58:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980106171633.0068c350@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 17:16:33 -0200 To: BRUN Philippe From: Capriotti Subject: Re: Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <34B27920@brteec1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Isn't this set at BIOS Setup ? I remember seeing an option "Memory hole 15-16 MB" on several BIOS. At 10:24 06/01/98 PST, you wrote: > >Salut, > My machine has 32 Mbyte of RAM > I have 3 isa cards mapped beetween 15 Mb et 16 Mb > I have a problem with address beetween 15 Mb et 16 Mb, this Ram exist in >the system and in isa card > I want to create a hole in the system memory to use isa card Ram for these >address > How do I proceed with FREEBSD 2.2.5 ? > > > TIA > --------------------------------------------------------- > Philippe BRUN > EEC > BP15 F-91222 > Bretigny s/Orge Cedex > France > Tel:+33 01 69 88 72 78 > Fax:+33 01 69 88 73 33 > e-mail: philippe.brun@eurocontrol.fr > --------------------------------------------------------- > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 03:23:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA29948 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:23:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA29942 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:23:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA18760; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:23:23 -0800 (PST) To: FreeBSD Hacker cc: Jim Bryant , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 02:19:57 PST." Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 03:23:23 -0800 Message-ID: <18756.884085803@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk All sounds good to me - who have you got lined up to actually implement this integrated database system? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 04:06:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03468 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:06:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA03449 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:06:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.4) with UUCP id MAA12336; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:04:06 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:53:08 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199712300641.AAA04909@unix.tfs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:54:03 +0000 To: FreeBSD Hacker From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 10:19 am +0000 6/1/98, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: >Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get PostGreSQL >to work with windows, unsuccessfully.[etc] Have a look at MySQL/MyODBC. We've been having great success with them. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 05:10:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA08888 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:10:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp10.portal.net.au [202.12.71.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA08791 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:09:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00382 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:33:40 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801061303.XAA00382@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 23:33:39 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This appears to have been lost in the christmastime mail mangle... Some people may remember the 'splashkit' I did for 2.2 systems early last year. After not a little tinkering, I've adapted this for 3.0. Rather than requring the bitmap be compiled into the kernel (although still supporting this), the new code uses a new "extras" section placed after the kernel but before the symbol table by the bootloader. This "extras" section can be used for other items as well, not being restricted to just the splash image. The kernel.config file is a good example of this. (Some work is needed to support the extras region in the kzip environment, but it can be done.) Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current 8) I'm looking for: - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. - More video mode support. 320x200 is OK, 640x480 would be a minimal requirement otherwise. If there's anyone interested, I'll roll some diffs and put them out for playing with. The extras section: The extras section uses two new fields in the bootinfo structure, but should reduce the need for more of these additions in the future. These fields point to the base of the extras region and give its length respectively. Each entry in the extras region has a two-word header. The first word is a key value describing the contents of the region, the second gives the data length of the region in bytes. The extras region is terminated by a header with the key value 0. Support for this region adds a small amount of extra code to the bootblock, an extra accounting for the region in locore.S (to correctly locate the end of the kernel), and a lookup function (which I have placed in machdep.c for want of a more appropriate location). The nature of the extras region makes it easy to relocate (in the kzip case), and it should be straightforward to adapt the netboot code similarly. Comments? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 05:11:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA08959 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:11:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA08955 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:11:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from com-pipp01 (node65.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.65]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA16587 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:12:29 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980106111025.0068aeec@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:10:25 -0200 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: X based Free installation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hey, folks. Is there any plan to make a X based installation for FreeBSD ? I've been thinking: It could make things easyer for those ppl - like me - who have in-depth WINDOS background. Of course further details like "Do you want this machine to be an NFS Server ?" or "Do you want this machine to be an NFS Client ?" and other may still bbe a problem, but this is another step. I was VERY frustrated when I first tryed to install Free (Back to 2.1 version) and I just couldn't, because it wouldn't recognize my IDE CD-ROM drive, and there was no clue why... then, when I was able to get the CD working (long time and several attempts latter), I got very confused about those new and hermetic concepts, info and language. And I was not exactly a rookie. Today's instasllation (2.2.1) is a bit better, more user friendly, but I guess it can get better. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 05:15:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA09331 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:15:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA09325 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:15:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id IAA00619; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:13:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:13:05 -0500 (EST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: FreeBSD Hacker cc: Jim Bryant , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: > > Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get PostGreSQL > to work with windows, unsuccessfully. There is, of course, a more appropriate forum for bringing up this sort of question...I know ppl are accessing PostgreSQL using ODBC drivers from Windows, and have been for over a year now... Try posting something to pgsql-questions@postgresql.org instead of freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org and you just *might* get an answer... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 05:40:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA11387 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:40:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA11380 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:40:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id HAA25629; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:40:18 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id HAA24288; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:40:17 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980106074017.26436@mcs.net> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:40:17 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD Hacker , Jim Bryant , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) References: <18756.884085803@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <18756.884085803@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Jan 06, 1998 at 03:23:23AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, Jan 06, 1998 at 03:23:23AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > All sounds good to me - who have you got lined up to actually > implement this integrated database system? :-) > > Jordan Actually, from what I can see Postgresql looks pretty good... ask me again in a couple of months once I have a real production-style load on it. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 06:25:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA15179 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:25:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA15166 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:25:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00941; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:31:46 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:24:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Weird malloc problem. In-Reply-To: <199801060618.AAA04044@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > IIRC (and I'm no expert), it is possible to sbrk your processes' > entire addressable memory space (all 2^32 bits), and never use it. Not very logical though that I can allocate more memory than I have. To me at least. > However, when you actually try to use it, then you get a core dump (I > think a SIGSEGV). So, you call malloc, which sbrk's the block plus > its overhead. Then malloc then puts its own before the block. At > that point, then a actual page of virtual memory is assigned to the > block, not before. So, sbrk gets how much memory it can have from getrlimit, and what's happened is that I've been able to set either the soft or hard limit beyond some other more realistic limit which the vm system must already surely know about. So, does someone want to explain WHY getrlimit doesn't ask the relavent parts of the kernel before it decides what limits it will set for the user? Actually, as someone just pointed out, it's fine to set the limits to anything, but malloc should never think it suceeded in allocating virtual memory which clearly just doesn't exist! Steve -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 07:30:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA22168 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:30:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA21667 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:24:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA25928; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:24:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:24:42 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980106111025.0068aeec@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Capriotti wrote: > Today's instasllation (2.2.1) is a bit better, more user friendly, but I > guess it can get better. Have you tried the 2.2.5 install? Some friends of mine said it was a significant improvement over the 2.2.1 install. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 07:39:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA22955 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:39:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA22894 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:39:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02641; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:38:10 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from ache) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:38:08 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Johan Larsson cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Johan Larsson wrote: > This is a problem with the port. One solution is to install the port, then > compile tcsh _without_ patches (just right out of the box) and install > just the tcsh binary! This will make it all work. The port is damaged. If you compile not a port, you just don't compile in NLS support. Of course the bug will be gone in this case but with functionality reducing. I prefer somebody really trace it down instead. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:03:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA25419 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:03:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fax.ceniai.inf.cu (fax.ceniai.inf.cu [169.158.128.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA25383 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:02:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ogaspar@jcce.org.cu) Received: from ceniai.inf.cu by fax.ceniai.inf.cu with esmtp (Smail3.2) id m0xpbS8-000NMFC; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:02:04 -0500 (CST) Received: from gateway.jcce.org.cu by ceniai.inf.cu with smtp (Smail3.2) id m0xpbXR-000AqTC; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:07:33 -0500 (CST) Received: from tinored by gateway.jcce.org.cu with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0xpbSK-00006EC; Tue, 6 Jan 98 11:02 CST Received: by tinored (Smail3.1.28.1 #24) id m0xpbBR-00027eC; Tue, 6 Jan 98 10:44 EST Message-Id: From: ogaspar@jcce.org.cu (Omar Gaspar Navarro) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:44:49 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: CARIBE [version 3.0] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk help From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:11:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26305 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:11:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26288 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:10:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from com-pipp01 (node19.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.19]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26149 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:07:47 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980106141532.0068a330@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:15:32 -0200 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: SFT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any news about System Fault Tolerance under Free ? Like what Novell has, from mirrowed disks to mirrowed servers ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:42:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28215 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:42:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28206 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:41:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12192; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:38:36 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256584.0060E81B ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:38:28 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: julian@whistle.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256584.00604E1E.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:38:24 -0300 Subject: Re: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > * Regarding major/minor number (I don't quite grok > > that yet), may I suppose the script did the right > > thing (current system)? > for now, yes.. > it will have assigned you the 'experimental device' number. The driver is for a very unusual device (a cryptography card), and I don't know if it will be released under Berkeley license (I'm writing it for someone else). Should I just leave it with the experimental device number after having finished it or what? > Minor numbers are so a device driver can tell apart it's devices. > Major numbers are so the system can tell which driver to assign > to the device. Is this in any man page? So concise... :-) And, btw, what happens when devfs becomes the name of the game? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:42:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28222 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:42:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA27717 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:35:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10104; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:31:48 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256584.00604952 ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:31:42 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: mike@smith.net.au cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256584.005F6BFE.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:31:38 -0300 Subject: Re: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > * My device driver should be used mainly by other > > kernel routines. How should I proceed? Is there a > > standard interface or something? > You need to be more specific about this before it's > possible to give a really useful answer. Look at the > network drivers and disk drivers for two sorts of > drivers that are used primarily by other kernel code. My mind got a panic with the Too Many Files error, and, unfortunately, its debugging tools are almost non-existant, and very time-consuming to use... ;-) Anyway, bpf.c helped with my first question (how to deal with the sloooooow i/o), and Julian's answer dealt with the third. So, let's put the second question (above) in another way. The card I'm writing a device for is a cryptography card. It will be using by networking code (not mine) directly in kernel. So, the device will be accessed most of the time from other parts of the kernel. Now, I understand cdevsw and bdevsw provide a standard interface between the device and userland processes, but is there any kind of standard interface for use by other routines in-kernel? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:44:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28471 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:44:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28431 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:44:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gozer@ludd.luth.se) Received: from kryten.ludd.luth.se (gozer@kryten.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.6]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01410; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:43:02 +0100 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:42:58 +0100 (MET) From: Johan Larsson To: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, [KOI8-R] áÎÄÒÅÊ þÅÒÎÏ× wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Johan Larsson wrote: > > > This is a problem with the port. One solution is to install the port, then > > compile tcsh _without_ patches (just right out of the box) and install > > just the tcsh binary! This will make it all work. The port is damaged. > > If you compile not a port, you just don't compile in NLS support. > Of course the bug will be gone in this case but with functionality > reducing. I prefer somebody really trace it down instead. So you mean that echo $version that gives: tcsh 6.07.02 (Astron) 1996-10-27 (i386-intel-FreeBSD) options 8b,nls,dl,al,rh doesn't mean that nls is supported? If not, my apology, otherwise i think that the tcsh should be switched back to 6.06 (because what i know of that it works and doesn't have any major faults :) Johan -- * mailto:gozer@ludd.luth.se * http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/gozer/ * * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ * From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:57:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA29489 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29430 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:56:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from com-pipp01 (node19.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.19]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06444 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:58:06 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980106145524.006920cc@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:55:24 -0200 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Which free Unix for an embedded system? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi. Remember that topic ?? It was discussed on Usenet, but I think it is worth sending you this question: How reliable is FreeBSD to handle mission-critical tasks ? Supposing that you have a perfect application running under Free, would any of you guys install, for instance, FreeBSD on the Souhorney's computers ? Or maybe, would you rely on Free a medical application to aid surgeries ? I know it may sound strange, but maybe Free can also be an *exelent* option for robots and other alike. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 09:00:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29877 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:00:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (ott-pm6-09.comnet.ca [206.75.140.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29723 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:59:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: from tomqnx.com by TomQNX.tomqnx.com with esmtp (Smail3.2 #1) id m0xpcHy-000A9JC; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:55:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34B26208.773F9E85@tomqnx.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:55:36 -0500 From: Tom Torrance X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bsd.port.mk error Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CDD5838AB72404ACF6CDC16F" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CDD5838AB72404ACF6CDC16F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a minor error which prevents over-riding the existance in distfiles of a corrupt file to force downloading of the latest version. The attached diff fixes it. The 'tix' distribution on my 2.2.5R cdrom was corrupt. -- mailto:tomNO@SPAMtomqnx.com Tom Torrance 27 Dayton Cr., Nepean Ont., Canada K2H 7N8 My opinions are personal, and not those of my employer. --------------CDD5838AB72404ACF6CDC16F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="dist" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="dist" *** /usr/src/share/mk/bsd.port.mk Fri Jan 2 12:47:01 1998 --- bsd.port.mk Tue Jan 6 11:25:43 1998 *************** *** 620,627 **** # Search CDROM first if mounted, symlink instead of copy if # FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES is set .if exists(/cdrom/ports/distfiles) ! MASTER_SITES:= file:/cdrom/ports/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${MASTER_SITES} ! PATCH_SITES:= file:/cdrom/ports/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${PATCH_SITES} .if defined(FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES) FETCH_BEFORE_ARGS+= -l .endif --- 620,627 ---- # Search CDROM first if mounted, symlink instead of copy if # FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES is set .if exists(/cdrom/ports/distfiles) ! MASTER_SITES:= file:${PORTSDIR}/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${MASTER_SITES} ! PATCH_SITES:= file:${PORTSDIR}/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${PATCH_SITES} .if defined(FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES) FETCH_BEFORE_ARGS+= -l .endif --------------CDD5838AB72404ACF6CDC16F-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 09:15:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01299 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:15:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01211 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:15:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03822; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:14:58 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from ache) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:14:56 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Johan Larsson cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Johan Larsson wrote: > So you mean that echo $version that gives: > tcsh 6.07.02 (Astron) 1996-10-27 (i386-intel-FreeBSD) options 8b,nls,dl,al,rh > > doesn't mean that nls is supported? If not, my apology, otherwise i think Besides nls compiled in, you'll need to have message catalogs installed and picked properly by NLS. I think if you just delete tcsh message catalog, the bug wil gone. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 09:29:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA02873 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:29:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02828 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:28:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA00728; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:28:45 -0800 (PST) To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:10:25 -0200." <3.0.1.32.19980106111025.0068aeec@pop.mpc.com.br> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:28:45 -0800 Message-ID: <724.884107725@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Is there any plan to make a X based installation for FreeBSD ? Nope. Too much trouble and bootstrapping the user into an X server, even a 16 color one, is also a non-trivial exercise, especially from a 1.44MB boot floppy (though I suppose you could stay out of X until you got your media pipe open and could suck over a 2nd-stage install and its infrastructure). In any case, every one of the other 5000 or so times this exact same question has come up, I've generally said the same thing: If somebody really feels like they have the cojones to sit down and implement something like this, submitting a viable proof-of-concept to me or anyone else on the FreeBSD development team, we'll be more than happy to look at it! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 10:37:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA08985 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:37:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tbird.cc.bellcore.com (tbird.cc.bellcore.com [128.96.96.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA08981 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:37:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from monolith.bellcore.com by tbird.cc.bellcore.com with SMTP id AA05338 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:31:03 -0500 Received: from khansen.cc.bellcore.com by monolith.bellcore.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA09693; Tue, 6 Jan 98 13:26:42 EST Message-Id: <34B2776D.7E87@njcc.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:26:53 -0500 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Capriotti , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation References: <724.884107725@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jordan, I was *quite* impressed with the ease of installation that the (then) current R2.2.2 Install CD provided. With that diskette and a few scraps of information regarding my local ISP I was able to take an idle 386DX/40 and a 14.4K modem and get FreeBSD up and running in a few hours! Shortly after I performed this feat I downlaoded a copy of the QNX Internet Application Toolbox kit from QNX (an OS, Windows manager and browser on one 1.44 Meg diskette) and was equally impressed. The current instal diskette is easliy as good as the install tools provided in comercial linux (Red Hat and Caldera) distributions, and the FreeBSD one even includes dial-up tools for users without a direct internet connection! A great tool, IMHO. Ken khansen@njcc.com Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Is there any plan to make a X based installation for FreeBSD ? > > Nope. Too much trouble and bootstrapping the user into an X server, > even a 16 color one, is also a non-trivial exercise, especially from a > 1.44MB boot floppy (though I suppose you could stay out of X until you > got your media pipe open and could suck over a 2nd-stage install and > its infrastructure). From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 10:42:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09720 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:42:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cedb.dpcsys.com (cedb.dpcsys.com [206.16.184.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09713 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:42:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dpcsys.com) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by cedb.dpcsys.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA15734; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:42:08 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:42:08 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Busarow To: FreeBSD Hacker cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: > Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get PostGreSQL > to work with windows, unsuccessfully. Second, I think that the bottom Try mysql and myodbc. Works like a charm. Dan -- Dan Busarow 714 443 4172 DPC Systems / Beach.Net dan@dpcsys.com Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 10:58:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10778 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:58:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10758 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:58:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA27177; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:58:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:58:19 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Besides nls compiled in, you'll need to have message catalogs installed >and picked properly by NLS. I think if you just delete tcsh message >catalog, the bug wil gone. I turned this off in config_f.h and sure enough, my scripts are working now. Thanks! If there's something I can do to help troubleshoot this, I'm willing to. Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 11:28:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA12900 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:28:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (ott-pm6-26.comnet.ca [206.75.140.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12805 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:27:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: from tomqnx.com by TomQNX.tomqnx.com with esmtp (Smail3.2 #1) id m0xpcw1-000A10C; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:37:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34B26BBC.93BAE6EF@tomqnx.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 12:37:00 -0500 From: Tom Torrance X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bsd.port.mk error Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9F31D763851D47CCFE3A16FF" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9F31D763851D47CCFE3A16FF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a minor error in bsd.port.mk that makes it difficult to override the existance of a corrupt entry in the cdrom distfiles distribution and force a download of the (single) file. The attached patch fixes the problem. the 'tix' distribution was corrupt on my 2.2.5R cdroms. -- mailto:tomNO@SPAMtomqnx.com Tom Torrance 27 Dayton Cr., Nepean Ont., Canada K2H 7N8 My opinions are personal, and not those of my employer. --------------9F31D763851D47CCFE3A16FF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="bsd.port.mk.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="bsd.port.mk.patch" *** /usr/src/share/mk/bsd.port.mk Fri Jan 2 12:47:01 1998 --- bsd.port.mk Tue Jan 6 11:25:43 1998 *************** *** 620,627 **** # Search CDROM first if mounted, symlink instead of copy if # FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES is set .if exists(/cdrom/ports/distfiles) ! MASTER_SITES:= file:/cdrom/ports/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${MASTER_SITES} ! PATCH_SITES:= file:/cdrom/ports/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${PATCH_SITES} .if defined(FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES) FETCH_BEFORE_ARGS+= -l .endif --- 620,627 ---- # Search CDROM first if mounted, symlink instead of copy if # FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES is set .if exists(/cdrom/ports/distfiles) ! MASTER_SITES:= file:${PORTSDIR}/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${MASTER_SITES} ! PATCH_SITES:= file:${PORTSDIR}/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${PATCH_SITES} .if defined(FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES) FETCH_BEFORE_ARGS+= -l .endif --------------9F31D763851D47CCFE3A16FF-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 11:40:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14001 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:40:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA13969 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:40:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:39:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22352; Tue, 6 Jan 98 14:39:37 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA18584; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:38:43 -0500 Message-Id: <19980106143843.57296@ct.picker.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:38:43 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fwd: Digital UNIX on IA-64 (Merced) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Interesting... Tuesday January 6, 8:29 am Eastern Time Company Press Release SOURCE: Digital Equipment Corporation Digital and Sequent Launch Initiative For Port of Digital UNIX to Intel IA-64 For UNIX-Based Enterprise Computing Initiative Will Deliver to Customers, ISVs and OEMs the Most Interoperable UNIX on Intel IA-64 for Mixed UNIX-Microsoft Environments Single Implementation of This Operating System to Span Intel IA-64 and Alpha Architectures MAYNARD, Mass. and BEAVERTON, Ore., Jan. 6 /PRNewswire/ -- Digital Equipment Corporation (NYSE: DEC - news) and Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. (Nasdaq: SQNT - news) today announced they will collaborate on a 64-bit UNIX initiative to establish the leading UNIX on the IA-64 enterprise computing architecture, and the most interoperable UNIX with Windows NT. The 64-bit UNIX initiative is based on Digital UNIX, will add key Sequent technologies, and be augmented with joint development by the two companies. Key to the initiative will be aggressive recruitment of additional partners and licensees. As part of the initiative, Digital UNIX will be renamed to underscore the effort to create the industry's leading UNIX on Intel, and reflect Digital's commitment to partnering with other hardware vendors. Casey Powell, chairman and CEO of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. said, ``This 64-bit UNIX initiative will deliver the only complete 64-bit UNIX on Intel IA-64. The initiative is uniquely positioned to achieve broad acceptance among enterprise-focused customers, ISVs and OEMs who require a risk-free migration path, partnership, and product integration for IA-64.'' The offering will leverage the more than 4,500 existing 64-bit Digital UNIX applications, provide binary compatibility with existing 32-bit applications, a production-ready environment for high-end applications, integral UNIX-Microsoft integration, and an open requirements process for OEM partners. In addition, a source migration path will be available for current 32-bit UNIX vendors who participate in this initiative. The 64-bit UNIX initiative will be based on Digital UNIX, the industry's leading 64-bit operating system, and will continue to be owned by Digital. The joint development effort will integrate key technology from Sequent's DYNIX/ptx IA-32 UNIX operating system, including Non-Uniform Memory Access (NUMA) technology, and draw on the engineering expertise of both companies. Sequent has delivered high-end systems based on the Intel architecture since 1984. Robert B. Palmer, Digital chairman, president and chief executive officer, said, ``We are pleased to welcome Sequent as our first partner in creating the leading UNIX for Intel's 64-bit architecture. Together with Sequent and future partners, we intend to lead the market for 64-bit UNIX by delivering the best enterprise UNIX on Intel, the best path to Merced for customers and ISVs, and proven UNIX-Microsoft interoperability.'' Complete Compatibility This 64-bit UNIX initiative will provide: A full range of compatibility for source and binary code. A single implementation across Intel IA-64 and Alpha to ensure functional equivalence and 100 percent source compatibility across the two architectures. 100 percent binary compatibility for ISV and customer applications. As a result, a binary application developed on any IA-64 system will run on all vendors' IA-64 systems running this enhanced operating system. Support for running 32-bit binary applications unmodified. In addition, Digital and Sequent will jointly develop a source-compatible environment, initially on top of Sequent ptx, to provide Sequent and other OEM customers with forward compatibility for source code written on their 32-bit systems. This initiative will offer the only UNIX with little endian Intel byte- order compatibility across both Intel and RISC (Alpha) implementations. This makes smooth forward migration of applications possible with a simple re- compile. John Miner, vice president and general manager of Intel Corporation [Nasdaq:INTC - news]'s Enterprise Server Group said, ``With Merced, the Intel architecture is becoming a unifying platform for enterprise computing environments. In this industry- wide endeavor, Digital and Sequent each bring a strong history of technology and partnering capabilities for high-end UNIX solutions with strong Windows NT integration.'' Sequent Chairman Powell added, ``We chose to partner with Digital for this 64-bit UNIX initiative because it gives our customers a production-quality operating system with thousands of 64-bit applications at the launch of Merced, 32-bit compatibility looking back, and Windows NT integration looking forward. That's what we needed -- what any enterprise OEM needs -- and only Digital offered it. I'll give you an example. With Solaris, Sun offered Sequent a low-end Intel environment which has a long way to go before it approaches where Solaris-on-SPARC is today. And, at Sun, the commitment clearly isn't there for NT integration.'' Gary Bloom, Oracle Corporation's [Nasdaq:ORCL - news] senior vice president for Alliances and Products, said, ``This 64-bit UNIX initiative is an important event for the enterprise UNIX marketplace, where consolidation is creating a few very strong players. Oracle supports this effort based on the strength of Digital and Sequent in the enterprise. Oracle's Network Computing Architecture will fully exploit the interoperability of this enhanced operating system to provide an ideal platform for applications, enabling lower cost of ownership and high performance. We expect that other ISVs and OEM partners will find this 64-bit UNIX initiative extremely appealing. This offers proven technology, a smooth migration path, and a robust, scalable environment for Merced.'' Commitment To UNIX Leadership On Alpha And Intel Digital Chairman Palmer added, ``This announcement reinforces Digital's long-term strategic commitment to UNIX on both Alpha and Intel. We already have more than five years of experience in delivering high-performance, 64-bit UNIX solutions on Alpha. In other words, customers and ISVs have an immediate path to 64-bit enterprise computing. With the availability of 64-bit UNIX on both Alpha and Intel, they will have access to the broadest range of high- performance solutions in the industry.'' Leader In UNIX/Microsoft Integration This initiative will offer leading integration for UNIX and Windows NT, a world-class integrated development environment, middleware and infrastructure products. Digital, as a leader in Windows NT systems integration and interoperability, offers customers a head start in UNIX/Windows NT bridging technologies. These technologies will be available to OEMs who adopt this initiative. UNIX and Windows NT integration and interoperability will be a focus of future Digital/Sequent joint development, leveraging Sequent's expertise in achieving high-performance, scalability, and availability on Intel-based systems. About Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. Sequent Computer Systems is a global leader in enterprise-wide, open IT systems, delivering scalable, flexible, data center solutions. Sequent's solutions are based on breakthrough NUMA-Q architecture, which supports UNIX, Windows NT, or mixed environments; a comprehensive portfolio of proven programs and services; and an established set of partnerships with the industry's best-in-class. Sequent minimizes customers' risk, enabling integration of computing infrastructure and implementation of complex, business-critical applications. More than 8,500 installations house Sequent systems, including many of the world's largest and most sophisticated OLTP, DSS, business communications, and RDBMS applications. About Digital Equipment Corporation Digital Equipment Corporation, recognized for product and service excellence, is a leading supplier of high-performance, Web-based computing solutions which help enterprises compete in the global marketplace. Digital gives its customers a winning Internet advantage through a comprehensive portfolio of Internet solutions based on award-winning systems, advanced networking infrastructure, innovative software, and industry applications - including those from business partners. The expertise and experience of Digital employees help customers plan, design, implement, manage and support Internet solutions in countries throughout the world. For the latest company information, visit Digital on the World Wide Web at http://www.digital.com and/or http://www.newsdesk.com. NOTE: Digital and the Digital logo are trademarks of Digital Equipment Corporation. Sequent is a registered trademark and NUMA-Q is a trademark of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. Intel and Pentium are registered trademarks of Intel Corporation. UNIX is a registered trademark in the United States and other countries, licensed exclusively to X/Open Company Ltd. All other brand and product names appearing in this release are registered trademarks or trademarks of their respective holders. SOURCE: Digital Equipment Corporation Regards, Gary Hayden Account Representative Digital Equipment Corporation 2500 Citywest Boulevard, Suite 1000 Houston, TX 77042 __________________________________ 281-265-2806 Telephone 281-265-2823 Fax 713-607-8866 Pager Gary.Hayden@digital.com Internet From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 11:50:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14791 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:50:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14786 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:50:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA22793; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:45:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd022786; Tue Jan 6 11:45:30 1998 Message-ID: <34B28925.2781E494@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:42:29 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chrisy Luke CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multipath Routing. References: <19980106104520.25045@flix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Chrisy Luke wrote: > > This is a scouting survey to see if anyone else is interested in what > I've been playing with... > > I'm just finishing off a pretty neat kernel hack I started last week to > implement multipath routing in the BSD kernel, using FreeBSD as my > development base. Not much has changed across the BSD's or time to the > code I've changed so it should be portable to other BSD's quite easily. > > What it changes is the rule that an entry in the routing table can > only have one next-hop gateway. Unlike Sun's implementation of the > same. this load balances across the installed gateways for a route. > Sun's method merely allowed two nodes in the patricia tree to have the same > network and netmask. On route lookup, it finds the first one and disregards > any others. > > You end up with a routing table that looks something like: > > chrisy@om[~]> netstat -rn > Routing tables so can different routes have different metrics? > > Internet: > Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire > default UGSc 3 138832 > 193.131.248.183 46278 fxp0 > *193.131.248.254 46277 fxp0 > 193.131.248.186 46277 fxp0 > 127.0.0.1 *127.0.0.1 UH 0 2 lo0 > 193.131.248 *link#1 UC 0 0 > 193.131.248.2 *0:0:f8:30:2:4b UHLW 0 13785 fxp0 1198 > 193.131.248.24 *0:0:c0:53:22:e4 UHLW 0 1 fxp0 697 > 193.131.248.97 *8:0:3:22:47:ae UHLW 0 0 fxp0 572 > 193.131.248.173 *0:0:c0:3a:22:e4 UHLW 0 772 fxp0 782 > 193.131.248.179 *0:0:c0:b0:3b:e7 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1081 > 193.131.248.180 *8:0:3:23:15:e5 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 571 > 193.131.248.183 *0:0:c0:78:22:e4 UHLW 4 0 fxp0 682 > 193.131.248.185 *0:0:c0:6e:22:e4 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1194 > 193.131.248.186 *0:0:c0:9c:b1:e3 UHLW 2 0 fxp0 1170 > 193.131.248.187 *0:0:c0:5c:10:dc UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1198 > 193.131.248.254 *0:0:f8:30:98:a8 UHLW 4 6076 fxp0 1184 > 195.40.1 UGSc 0 0 > *193.131.248.183 0 fxp0 > 193.131.248.186 0 fxp0 > > Note the subtle changes. The '*' that preceeds some of the Gateway fields > shows the target of the next packet to hit ip_output() and is destined for > that network. Note also that each gateway has it's own Use and netif field. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 12:23:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17692 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:23:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17683 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:23:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id VAA26963 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:22:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id UAA18748; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:53:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980106205338.32583@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:53:38 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: References: <34B27920@brteec1> <3.0.1.32.19980106171633.0068c350@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980106171633.0068c350@pop.mpc.com.br>; from Capriotti on Tue, Jan 06, 1998 at 05:16:33PM -0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3945 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to Capriotti: > Isn't this set at BIOS Setup ? I remember seeing an option "Memory hole > 15-16 MB" on several BIOS. When Philippe does that, the upper 16 MB disappear and are not seen by FreeBSD. He will have to fiddle with the memory map to move the 1 MB window elsewhere (à la ISA hole between 640 and 1024 KB). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #26: Thu Jan 1 20:29:10 CET 1998 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 12:51:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19763 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:51:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19749 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:51:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08103; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:51:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980106125118.57848@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:51:18 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: change of location... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk well... I've significantly upgraded my inet access... (10mbit ethernet to a T3)... and with this change, I haven't yet gotten to fix resnet.uoregon.edu to redirect requests yet... so the new location of the bus/device spec is at: http://d182-89.uoregon.edu/~jmg/FreeBSD/busdevice.html enjoy! -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 12:59:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA20456 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:59:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20451 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:59:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00825; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:58:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd000779; Tue Jan 6 13:58:51 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA10023; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:58:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801062058.NAA10023@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:58:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801061303.XAA00382@word.smith.net.au> from "Mike Smith" at Jan 6, 98 11:33:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current > 8) I'm looking for: > > - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. ... > Comments? Actually, I'd suggest sticking with the format Windows 95 uses; that would let you use all of the splash screens that people have made for Windows 95. I kind of like the idea of being able to use the color cycle animations, as well... maybe next rev? Also, you might want to consider delaying until ELF kernels; that would let you put the image in an ELF section. Alternately, put a file called "bootimage" (or whatever) in "/" where the boot help resides, and read it out of the FS. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 13:17:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA22185 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:17:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22161 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:17:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04903; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd004859; Tue Jan 6 14:16:52 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA11031; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:16:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801062116.OAA11031@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SFT To: capriotti@geocities.com (Capriotti) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:16:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980106141532.0068a330@pop.mpc.com.br> from "Capriotti" at Jan 6, 98 02:15:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Does anyone have any news about System Fault Tolerance under Free ? > > Like what Novell has, from mirrowed disks to mirrowed servers ? You mean "software fault tolerance". There is a project under Linux, I believe. I don't expect it to bear fruit any time soon. The first release of the stuff at Novell took more than 6 years to get working. Anecdote: During one of the early demos of SFT at Novell, the demo was to drop an anvil on one machine and have the failover operate transparently. One time, the anvil dropped, and, since they were using thinwire at the time, the anvil crushed the ethernet card and shorted the thinwire. After that, the demo used two cards. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 13:18:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA22261 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:18:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21728 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:13:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01103; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd001039; Tue Jan 6 14:12:50 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA10782; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:12:46 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801062112.OAA10782@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Weird malloc problem. To: steve@visint.co.uk (Stephen Roome) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:12:46 +0000 (GMT) Cc: joelh@gnu.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Stephen Roome" at Jan 6, 98 02:24:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > IIRC (and I'm no expert), it is possible to sbrk your processes' > > entire addressable memory space (all 2^32 bits), and never use it. > > Not very logical though that I can allocate more memory than I have. > To me at least. Actually it's very reasonable. There are many reasons why you might want a discontinuous virtual address space, where not all pages are backed by real pages. For one, you might want to implement statistical data protection (a one out of 2^20th chance of someone guessing your page), etc.. This would be highly useful to avoid protection domain crossing in an OS simulator, etc.. There are other reasons. Maybe you want a "perfect" hash into memory, but will store some finite (small) number of hashed objects. Maybe you are going to rfork, and you want to be able to marshal data between "kernel threads" using an IPC mechanism instead of a heavyweight mechanism for reinstancing them (like Microsoft screwed up and required by putting instanced OLE/ActiveX interfaces in thread local storage)... and to do that, you need to ensure that the address space will not be private -- and you do that by preallocating it before the first rfork(). There's lots of other examples that I won't bore you with; suffice to say, it *can* be a useful thing to do. > Actually, as someone just pointed out, it's fine to set the limits to > anything, but malloc should never think it suceeded in allocating virtual > memory which clearly just doesn't exist! This is a standard feature of memory overcommit. Other standard features are: (1) The process that can't get the new page dies, even though it may be the longest running process on your system. (2) When you are using an executable file as a swap store, and the image is on a remote FS, if the server goes down, your machine hangs in paging in via the vnode pager until the server comes back up. (3) When you are doing #2, the VEXEC bit can't be set on the NFS server, and therefore the image you are using as swap store can be overwritten by another NFS client, or by the server process, and your application can crash catastrophically (including doing such things as deleting all your files, if the new image's code is juuuuuuust right). (4) You can't do a system suspend/resume, unless you have a seperate disk area for backing your primary RAM and restart information, in addition to the SWAP space. Etc.. Overall, with the exception of "committed" applications and remote FS vagries (which I think should be fixed, since they are fixable), memory overcommit is worth the trouble it causes. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 13:59:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA26510 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:59:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp10.portal.net.au [202.12.71.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA26405 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:58:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01368; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:21:11 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801062151.IAA01368@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:31:38 -0300." <83256584.005F6BFE.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 08:21:11 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The card I'm writing a device for is a cryptography card. It will be using > by networking code (not mine) directly in kernel. So, the device will be > accessed most of the time from other parts of the kernel. I guess, again, it depends on how you plan to use the card, and how the card has to be talked to. Will you be using it to perform end-to-end encryption on sockets? How about encrypting the entire contents of ethernet datagrams? Is the output of the card complete in itself, or does it encrypt streams of data? > Now, I understand cdevsw and bdevsw provide a standard interface between > the device and userland processes, but is there any kind of standard > interface for use by other routines in-kernel? Again, that depends on how you talk to it. Sometimes you will use the standard device entries (if you plan to use those semantics from elsewhere in the kernel), and sometimes you need other interfaces. "More input?" -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 14:05:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27656 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:05:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp10.portal.net.au [202.12.71.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27481 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:05:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01441; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:28:33 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801062158.IAA01441@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:58:37 -0000." <199801062058.NAA10023@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 08:28:32 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current > > 8) I'm looking for: > > > > - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) > > > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. > > .... > > > Comments? > > Actually, I'd suggest sticking with the format Windows 95 uses; that > would let you use all of the splash screens that people have made > for Windows 95. I kind of like the idea of being able to use the > color cycle animations, as well... maybe next rev? That's DIB (aka .BMP). Unfortunately, historically this format has been compressed/uncompressed by the video driver (!), and we all know how reliable Windows video drivers are. So nobody seems to support compressing the rotten things. Colour cycling would be quite feasible, and relatively simple to add. > Also, you might want to consider delaying until ELF kernels; that > would let you put the image in an ELF section. Alternately, put > a file called "bootimage" (or whatever) in "/" where the boot help > resides, and read it out of the FS. Didn't I make that obvious? That's how it's done already; effectively the "extras" section is a hack to add more sections to the a.out format, but the image is read from the file "/splash" by the bootstrap. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 14:08:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28036 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:08:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28020 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:08:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA02889; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:08:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:08:11 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: HTTPD Question Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk So, when I get something like this in my logs, what do you think it means? ahab.rutgers.edu - - [06/Jan/1998:10:33:18 -0800] "GET /cgi-bin/phf?Jserver=x%0auname%20-a%0aid%0aecho%20lamer%0a&Qname=x HTTP/1.0" 404 164 And httpd-errors: [Tue Jan 6 10:33:18 1998] access to /usr/local/www/cgi-bin/phf failed for ahab.rutgers.edu, reason: script not found or unable to stat Running apache-1.2.4, and I don't have any CGI scripts available to run. Just wondering out loud if I've got a problem. Thanks, Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 14:22:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00184 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:22:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA29395 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:17:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-1.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.1]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11105; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:18:25 GMT Message-Id: <199801061818.SAA11105@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: , "Capriotti" Subject: Re: X based Free installation Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:10:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk what would be the point? to have X installed you have to already have freebsd installed. the latest installer (2.2.5) is pretty cool anyway, although slightly buggy when it fails to initialize install medias. if anyone were to do something nice for installs it would be to show a simple tutorial on making a bootable blank freebsd disk, disklable firghtens me :) honestly i will admit a shamefull secret, to make a bootable disk i've had to install freebsd from scratch... not a pretty site, and i _do_ RTFM a lot :) -Alfred ---------- > From: Capriotti > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: X based Free installation > Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 8:10 AM > > Hey, folks. > > Is there any plan to make a X based installation for FreeBSD ? > > I've been thinking: It could make things easyer for those ppl - like me - > who have in-depth WINDOS background. > > Of course further details like "Do you want this machine to be an NFS > Server ?" or "Do you want this machine to be an NFS Client ?" and other may > still bbe a problem, but this is another step. > > I was VERY frustrated when I first tryed to install Free (Back to 2.1 > version) and I just couldn't, because it wouldn't recognize my IDE CD-ROM > drive, and there was no clue why... then, when I was able to get the CD > working (long time and several attempts latter), I got very confused about > those new and hermetic concepts, info and language. And I was not exactly a > rookie. > > Today's instasllation (2.2.1) is a bit better, more user friendly, but I > guess it can get better. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 14:33:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01554 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:33:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01520 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:32:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id XAA06272 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:32:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id XAA06451; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:30:06 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980106233005.35928@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:30:05 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Soft updates available for OpenBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3960 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Has anyone looked at the soft updates package for OpenBSD ? It would be very nice to have it too :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #27: Tue Jan 6 22:25:44 CET 1998 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 14:56:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA03690 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03241 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:50:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id XAA07587; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:50:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id XAA19616; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:49:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980106234952.37736@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:49:52 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Brian Handy Subject: Re: HTTPD Question References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Handy on Tue, Jan 06, 1998 at 02:08:11PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3960 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to Brian Handy: > So, when I get something like this in my logs, what do you think it means? > > ahab.rutgers.edu - - [06/Jan/1998:10:33:18 -0800] "GET > /cgi-bin/phf?Jserver=x%0auname%20-a%0aid%0aecho%20lamer%0a&Qname=x > HTTP/1.0" 404 164 Someone tries to probe your WWW server for the phf CGI script which, in old versions of Apache, would give you access the any file the server can access. There have been a CERT advisatory about this. You may want to report the attack to them if you have enough log. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #27: Tue Jan 6 22:25:44 CET 1998 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 15:00:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA04031 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:00:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA03935 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id WAA01817; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:14:16 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199801062114.WAA01817@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: SFT To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:14:15 +0100 (MET) Cc: capriotti@geocities.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801062116.OAA11031@usr08.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 6, 98 09:16:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Anecdote: During one of the early demos of SFT at Novell, the demo > was to drop an anvil on one machine and have the failover operate > transparently. One time, the anvil dropped, and, since they were > using thinwire at the time, the anvil crushed the ethernet card > and shorted the thinwire. After that, the demo used two cards. 8-). which by no means was a guarantee that the problem could not occur again. Wouldn't have been better to switch to twisted pair instead :) Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 15:11:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05433 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:11:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05421 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:10:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-1.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.1]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11438 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:11:51 GMT Message-Id: <199801061911.TAA11438@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: Freebsd search engine? Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:07:50 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The search engine on the freebsd sites all return pointers to www.freebsd.org. for example, i'm on www2.freebsd.org and do a search of the mailing lists, or ports or whatever and all the results point to www.freebsd.org, is this on purpose, do the mirrors not mirror the handbook/FAQ? -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 15:11:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05470 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05420 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:10:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-1.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.1]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11434; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:11:47 GMT Message-Id: <199801061911.TAA11434@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Terry Lambert" , "Mike Smith" Cc: "Mike Smith" , Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:01:24 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk where can i get information on this splashkit thing? ---------- > From: Mike Smith > To: Terry Lambert > Cc: Mike Smith ; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... > Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 4:58 PM > > > > Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current > > > 8) I'm looking for: > > > > > > - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) > > > > > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > > > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > > > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. > > > > .... > > > > > Comments? > > > > Actually, I'd suggest sticking with the format Windows 95 uses; that > > would let you use all of the splash screens that people have made > > for Windows 95. I kind of like the idea of being able to use the > > color cycle animations, as well... maybe next rev? > > That's DIB (aka .BMP). Unfortunately, historically this format has > been compressed/uncompressed by the video driver (!), and we all know > how reliable Windows video drivers are. So nobody seems to support > compressing the rotten things. > > Colour cycling would be quite feasible, and relatively simple to add. > > > Also, you might want to consider delaying until ELF kernels; that > > would let you put the image in an ELF section. Alternately, put > > a file called "bootimage" (or whatever) in "/" where the boot help > > resides, and read it out of the FS. > > Didn't I make that obvious? That's how it's done already; effectively > the "extras" section is a hack to add more sections to the a.out > format, but the image is read from the file "/splash" by the bootstrap. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 15:44:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08405 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (root@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08379 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:44:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id RAA09428 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:44:12 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801062344.RAA09428@damon.com> Subject: Motif question To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:44:12 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. I am attempting to resolve some issues pertaining to running some AOL messenger s/w which comes as a Java application. (BTW: running this with anything but mwm causes the X-server to rapidly bloat until all 500meg of swap space is consumed!) Currently, I'm looking at a SEGV due to a difference in interpretation of what a "private" data structure should look like. >From the java:awt_util.c source, it thinks the struct, which hangs off a vendor specific field in the widget struct ve = (XmVendorShellExtObject) extData->widget; if ((im_info = (XmImInfo *) ve->vendor.im_info) == NULL) return NULL; else return im_info->iclist; lesstif places a: /* * This is a private data structure. A pointer to it is in the * VendorShell Extension object. */ typedef struct XmICStuff { XIC xic; XIM xim; Widget ve, text; /* Don't know if we need this */ struct XmICStuff *next; } XmICStuff; in the vendor.im_info. Java:awt_util.c thinks that it looks like: typedef struct { Widget im_widget; XIMStyle input_style; XIC xic; int status_width; int status_height; int preedit_width; int preedit_height; XmICStruct *iclist; XmICStruct *current; } XmImInfo; It picks up the `iclist', (random garbage) and faults. Obviously, the java:awt port for FreeBSD based on lesstif-0.81 should be modified, but I would appreciate if anyone could provide me any pointers so I could have the faintest idea as to what the hell is going on here. I really don't want to have to live-and-breathe Motif, but I would like a glimmer of understanding as to the issues here. Specifically, the function in java:awt is `awt_util_getIMStatusHeight', which has a bunch of side effects: XtSetArg(args[0], XtNbaseHeight, &base_height); XtGetValues(vw, args, 1); if (base_height < 0) base_height = 0; XtSetArg(args[0], XtNbaseHeight, base_height); XtSetValues(vw, args, 1); and returns `height'. Blech! Motif is already seeping into my brain. Help! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 16:08:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA10418 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:08:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09992 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:02:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-1.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.1]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA11798; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:03:07 GMT Message-Id: <199801062003.UAA11798@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Terry Lambert" , "Mike Smith" Cc: "Mike Smith" , Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:24:09 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk where can i get docs on this splash screen setup/install? -Alfred ---------- > From: Mike Smith > To: Terry Lambert > Cc: Mike Smith ; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... > Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 4:58 PM > > > > Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current > > > 8) I'm looking for: > > > > > > - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) > > > > > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > > > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > > > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. > > > > .... > > > > > Comments? > > > > Actually, I'd suggest sticking with the format Windows 95 uses; that > > would let you use all of the splash screens that people have made > > for Windows 95. I kind of like the idea of being able to use the > > color cycle animations, as well... maybe next rev? > > That's DIB (aka .BMP). Unfortunately, historically this format has > been compressed/uncompressed by the video driver (!), and we all know > how reliable Windows video drivers are. So nobody seems to support > compressing the rotten things. > > Colour cycling would be quite feasible, and relatively simple to add. > > > Also, you might want to consider delaying until ELF kernels; that > > would let you put the image in an ELF section. Alternately, put > > a file called "bootimage" (or whatever) in "/" where the boot help > > resides, and read it out of the FS. > > Didn't I make that obvious? That's how it's done already; effectively > the "extras" section is a hack to add more sections to the a.out > format, but the image is read from the file "/splash" by the bootstrap. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 16:48:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA13549 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:48:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA13407 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:47:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA23000; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:47:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA28404; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:46:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:46:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Damon Anton Permezel Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-Reply-To: <199801062344.RAA09428@damon.com> References: <199801062344.RAA09428@damon.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. *yuck* > I am attempting to resolve some issues pertaining to running some AOL > messenger s/w which comes as a Java application. > > (BTW: running this with anything but mwm causes the X-server to rapidly bloat > until all 500meg of swap space is consumed!) The AOL software, or the JDK in general? We've have really good luck with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and Swing components don't work at all. Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version causes SEGV's, which is what I believe the rest of the article is about.) > Obviously, the java:awt port for FreeBSD based on lesstif-0.81 should be > modified, but I would appreciate if anyone could provide me any pointers > so I could have the faintest idea as to what the hell is going on here. I'm not sure what you're asking about. Can you be a bit more specific? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 16:53:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14007 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:53:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA13966; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:53:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@fasterix.frmug.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id BAA16489; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:53:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from pb@fasterix.frmug.org) Received: (from pb@localhost) by fasterix.frmug.org (8.8.8/8.8.5/pb-19970302) id BAA24984; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:50:53 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980107015053.TL50316@@> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:50:53 +0100 From: pb@fasterix.freenix.org (Pierre Beyssac) To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: playing with the Linux JDK 1.1.3 under -current X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ this is mainly an emulator problem, but as it seems to involve more general questions about differing socket semantics under Linux vs FreeBSD, I Cc: this to -hackers ] I've been playing with the Linux JDK (v 1.1.3) under FreeBSD-current. Works fairly well, except for two problems I encountered. Note that the issue here is not so much having a running JDK (since there are others, native projects for this under FreeBSD) as using the Linux JDK as a compliance test for the Linux emulator :-) - fetching remote URLs in the Appletviewer (as in appletviewer http://xxxx/some_cool_applet_page.html) doesn't work ("already connected" error). Especially when the connection takes a long time to establish (remote site). In fact this occurs in the runtime code used for any Java connect(). - I have problems with a program using Netscape IFC classes V1.1.2 (freezes when exposing its window), while IFC 1.1.1 works perfectly fine. I'm told by a Linux user that these both work ok with the JDK under Linux, so these are probably not JDK bugs. I know where the first problem comes from and have been able to patch the Linux emulator code for a quick and dirty hack around the problem, by ignoring the ISCONN error when returned by connect(). The JDK runtime is apparently not expecting this error when redoing a connect() on a non-blocking socket, after the first connect() failed with a EINPROGRESS. Note that the original JDK code itself is hacked to work around Solaris socket bugs, which excuses this rather disgusting way of handling things... In the other case, the Java runtime is waiting (wchan=pause, according to ps) and doesn't fetch a variable amount of data it apparently got on its socket from the X server (it apparently fills with X events as you move the mouse and click). It all looks like subtle differences in the handling of non-blocking sockets between Linux and FreeBSD. Does anyone know about any such differences? I'm looking into this when I can spare a little time, but I thought maybe it would be a good idea to ask there first :-) -- Pierre Beyssac pb@fasterix.frmug.org pb@fasterix.freenix.org {Free,Net,Open}BSD, Linux : il y a moins bien, mais c'est plus cher Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 17:15:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15642 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:15:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp2.teleport.com (ns0.teleport.com [192.108.254.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15621 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:15:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrl@teleport.com) Received: from user2.teleport.com (usertest.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03249; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:15:31 -0800 (PST) From: Mostyn Lewis Received: (from mrl@localhost) by user2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA21799; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:15:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199801070115.RAA21799@user2.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: dap@damon.com (Damon Anton Permezel) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:15:29 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801062344.RAA09428@damon.com> from "Damon Anton Permezel" at Jan 6, 98 05:44:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk If you look a little up in the awt_util.c JDK_1.1.5 source, you'll see the comment about the code being copied from CDE/Motif (1.2.3 | 2.0 | 2.1 who knows). Sun uses 1.2.3 so it's probably that. Anyway, it's internal Motif code and the Motif developers can chop and change it as they see fit from release to release - and probably have. So, I guess you have to obey the struct below if you want to use this in java apps :-( Mostyn > Java:awt_util.c thinks that it looks like: > > typedef struct { > Widget im_widget; > XIMStyle input_style; > XIC xic; > int status_width; > int status_height; > int preedit_width; > int preedit_height; > XmICStruct *iclist; > XmICStruct *current; > } XmImInfo; From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 17:33:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18120 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:33:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17062 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:28:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id TAA09855; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:48 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801070110.TAA09855@damon.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:48 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jan 6, 98 05:46:54 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Nate Williams sez: " > > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. > > *yuck* Why? What are the (free) alternatives? Although I would rather get back to actually trying to write some Java code, rather than debugging AWT/Lesstif interactions, I might be tempted to argue that we should be working towards either making lesstif better, or AWT Motif-independent. > > > I am attempting to resolve some issues pertaining to running some AOL > > messenger s/w which comes as a Java application. > > > > (BTW: running this with anything but mwm causes the X-server to rapidly bloat > > until all 500meg of swap space is consumed!) > > The AOL software, or the JDK in general? We've have really good luck > with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and > Swing components don't work at all. I care not for the AOL s/w, except for the fact that it causes immediate X-server death unless one uses mwm or afterstep, and that it also causes SEGV or ABRT traps, and I'd like to remove as many bugs as possible from the next beta of the JDK port. > > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version > causes SEGV's, which is what I believe the rest of the article is > about.) Sure. The next beta (where I finally lay to rest the busy-wait-poll problem for the I/O) is ready, except I wanted to solve the SEGV problems, and some other issues I've seen when running some of the demo apps. Being somewhat paranoid, I like to test stuff, from several Os-levels, etc. My current plan is to fix all outstanding bugs (or accept defeat in 1 more day), publish the next binary, try to figure out how to generate diffs, and publish them. The main issue is time, I guess, and the "cleanup source and figure out how to generate diffs" task just keeps getting lower priority. I just got summoned to go grocery shopping, but "wrestling with the motif issues" is actually becoming more unpleasant than the gen diffs task, and since I am getting more and more requests, I suspect that something will pop out before this time tomorrow. OK, thats a commitment. Cheers, Damon. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 17:37:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18913 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:37:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy-bsb.gns.com.br (fNDwE/1fpGWRAz+/h49jLznr092ni95S@srv1-bsb.GNS.com.br [200.239.56.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA18844 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:37:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@gns.com.br) Received: (qmail 14027 invoked from network); 7 Jan 1998 01:35:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO srv1-bsb.gns.com.br) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 7 Jan 1998 01:35:22 -0000 Received: (from mail@localhost) by srv1-bsb.gns.com.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14023; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:35:22 -0200 (EDT) Received: from dl0235-bsb.gns.com.br(200.239.56.235) by srv1-bsb.gns.com.br via smap (V2.0) id xma014021; Tue, 6 Jan 98 23:35:14 -0200 Received: (from dcs@localhost) by daniel.sobral (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA00419; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:28:37 -0200 (EDT) From: "Daniel C. Sobral" Message-Id: <199801070128.XAA00419@daniel.sobral> Subject: Device Driver squeleton shell script To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:28:37 -0200 (EDT) Disclaimer: Klaatu Barada Nikto! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I have just added lkm capability to my driver, using joy driver as an example. It was almost cut and paste. I think it would be a nice addition to /usr/share/examples/drivers/make_*_driver.sh. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@gns.com.br I owe, I owe, It's off to work I go... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 17:42:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA19918 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:42:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from seidata.com (seidata.com [206.160.242.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19858 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:41:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01566; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:41:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:41:13 -0500 (EST) From: Mike To: Brian Handy cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HTTPD Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > So, when I get something like this in my logs, what do you think it > means? It seems to mean someone is attempting to exploit phf on your system. One popular phf "exploit" involves catting the password file to one's browser. This is nothing to worry about if you don't have phf on your system (the error messages you posted said you didn't). Of course, the same guy that attempted to exploit phf on your system may be trying other things as well... I would suggest either uncommenting the lines in your access.conf file that forward these requests to http://phf.apache.org or looking into a script that logs these instances, trys to query for information about the attacker and mails the results to root (just search for 'phf' on the web - there are a couple different scripts like this out there). --- Mike Hoskins Kettering University SEI Data Network Services, Inc. CS/CE Major Program mike@seidata.com hosk0094@kettering.edu http://www.seidata.com http://www.kettering.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 18:00:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA22469 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:00:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp2.teleport.com (ns0.teleport.com [192.108.254.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22433 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:00:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrl@teleport.com) Received: from user2.teleport.com (usertest.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03743; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:17:17 -0800 (PST) From: Mostyn Lewis Received: (from mrl@localhost) by user2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA21971; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:17:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199801070117.RAA21971@user2.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: dap@damon.com (Damon Anton Permezel) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:17:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801062344.RAA09428@damon.com> from "Damon Anton Permezel" at Jan 6, 98 05:44:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk If you look a little up in the awt_util.c JDK_1.1.5 source, you'll see the comment about the code being copied from CDE/Motif (1.2.3 | 2.0 | 2.1 who knows). Sun uses 1.2.3 so it's probably that. Anyway, it's internal Motif code and the Motif developers can chop and change it as they see fit from release to release - and probably have. So, I guess you have to obey the struct below if you want to use this in java apps :-( Mostyn > Java:awt_util.c thinks that it looks like: > > typedef struct { > Widget im_widget; > XIMStyle input_style; > XIC xic; > int status_width; > int status_height; > int preedit_width; > int preedit_height; > XmICStruct *iclist; > XmICStruct *current; > } XmImInfo; From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 18:08:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23274 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:08:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23263 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id CAA21974 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:08:05 GMT Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:08:05 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I've been looking up GPS products that will work with FreeBSD and here's what I've found so far. 1) John Hay has contributed code for NMEA drivers in xntpd. This is a standard protocol emitted by devices used for the boat navigation industry, "and you thought this was the Information Super Highway". >From the xntpd docs it looks like he is using a Garmin 25XL GPS device. http://www.garmin.com only shows Garmin 45XL. I wonder how much these things cost? Anyway, this apparently works now on FreeBSD. 2) Poul is playing around with the Motorolla UT Oncore Evaluation Kit. >From what I gather, the "Evaluation Kit" is what you would actually end up using. The unit is housed in an aluminum casing and they provide the RS-232 cable and some control software that runs on a PC. This looks like a cheap way to get a pretty high quality device. A lot of devices out there require a Gadget box to interface to a PC, the Evaluation kit takes care of that for you. 3) There are products specifically made for the PC market like the Bancomm bc635/637PCI card with GPS. At http://www.bancomm.com they list Win95 and WinNT drivers but no UNIX. I don't know if they'll provide enough info to write a driver. Is there anyone else using GPS on FreeBSD with xntpd as a Stratum 1 server solution? Regards, Mike Hancock -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 18:15:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23832 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:15:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23448 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:10:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA23561; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA28753; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:37 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199801070210.TAA28753@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Damon Anton Permezel Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-Reply-To: <199801070110.TAA09855@damon.com> References: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> <199801070110.TAA09855@damon.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. > > > > *yuck* > > Why? What are the (free) alternatives? None that I'm aware. > Although I would rather get back > to actually trying to write some Java code, rather than debugging AWT/Lesstif > interactions, I might be tempted to argue that we should be working towards > either making lesstif better, or AWT Motif-independent. I simply don't have time to mess around with making LessTif better, and AWT is probably not going to be Motif-independant anytime in the near future given that Sun's controls it. I'd rather make a distribution that we can legally distributte that contains the Motif library in a 'acceptably' re-distributable form if possible. > > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version > > causes SEGV's, which is what I believe the rest of the article is > > about.) > > Sure. The next beta (where I finally lay to rest the busy-wait-poll problem > for the I/O) is ready, except I wanted to solve the SEGV problems, and some > other issues I've seen when running some of the demo apps. > Being somewhat paranoid, I like to test stuff, from several Os-levels, etc. > My current plan is to fix all outstanding bugs (or accept defeat in 1 > more day), publish the next binary, try to figure out how to generate > diffs, and publish them. Great. The sooner the better. > The main issue is time, I guess, and the "cleanup source and figure out how > to generate diffs" task just keeps getting lower priority. The advantage of giving out diffs is that it allows others to leverage off of your work, and possibly take over the distribution problems. I have to build a dist. for my co-workers already, so I'd like to spend at least a bit of time trying to build a Motif-ish release. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:17:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA28909 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:17:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA28428 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02137; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801070306.TAA02137@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: Damon Anton Permezel , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 17:46:54 MST." <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 19:06:31 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The AOL software, or the JDK in general? We've have really good luck > with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and > Swing components don't work at all. Swing components seems to work over here well at least the ones that I have tested it. I am running FreeBSD 3.0-current with the recent port of jdk1.1.5 > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version Well, I am slugging over here with jdk1.1.5 so at the very least real soon we will have diffs against jdk1.1.5 --- now I am just truly hacking the jdk1.1.5 however I sincerely believe that once the diffs are released from whomever we will be in better shape to tackle jdk1.1.5. Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:19:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA29051 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:19:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA28440 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA05524; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:07:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd005522; Tue Jan 6 19:07:31 1998 Message-ID: <34B2F0BE.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 19:04:30 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver squeleton shell script References: <199801070128.XAA00419@daniel.sobral> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > I have just added lkm capability to my driver, using joy driver as > an example. It was almost cut and paste. I think it would be a nice > addition to /usr/share/examples/drivers/make_*_driver.sh. > > -- > Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) > dcs@gns.com.br > > I owe, I owe, > It's off to work I go... send me diffs and I'll commit it! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:42:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02198 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:42:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02124 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:42:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (beBop) id WAA16806; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:04:38 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:04:38 +1030 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199801061134.WAA16806@al.imforei.apana.org.au> To: jin@george.lbl.gov, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: suggestion on using boot.config In-Reply-To: <199712160444.UAA16864@george.lbl.gov> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971224 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In article <199712160444.UAA16864@george.lbl.gov> you wrote: > I do not know if this is a good place to address this issue. > For remote development, I would like to modified "boot.c" to rename > "/boot.config" to either "/boot.config.run" or "/boot.config.last" > after readfile("boot.config", boot_config, BOOT_CONFIG_SIZE); Hmm... doesn't "nextboot" do what you want? (I've only read the man page on it so don't shoot me if it doesn't) Peter -- Peter Childs - finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for PGP public key We are FreeBSD, resistance is related to current and voltage... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:51:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02835 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02446 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:46:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id VAA23795; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:49:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801070349.VAA23795@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:49:59 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: dap@damon.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: Motif question Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. [...] > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version > causes SEGV's, which is what I believe the rest of the article is > about.) Yes, please :-) We have several Motif licenses, as I'm sure many others do too. Is it possible to build the binary version against Motif and omit the troublesome library(ies) containing the Motif library routines? And then a simple way to rebuild the libraries with our own Motif without having to rebuild jdk? Or is this wishful thinking ;-) Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:51:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02865 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:51:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02848 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:51:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24186; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:51:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA29048; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:51:19 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:51:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199801070351.UAA29048@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Nate Williams , Damon Anton Permezel , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-Reply-To: <199801070306.TAA02137@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> <199801070306.TAA02137@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and > > Swing components don't work at all. > > > Swing components seems to work over here well at least the ones > that I have tested it. I am running FreeBSD 3.0-current with > the recent port of jdk1.1.5 I'm using both, and they don't work reliably *at all*. I can get them to work sometime, but not all the time. This is with Swing-0.6.1, not the newest release which has many bugs fixed but many new bugs with resizing stuff, so we're avoiding that release. > > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version > > Well, I am slugging over here with jdk1.1.5 so at the very least real > soon we will have diffs against jdk1.1.5 --- now I am just truly > hacking the jdk1.1.5 however I sincerely believe that once > the diffs are released from whomever we will be in better shape > to tackle jdk1.1.5. I don't follow? Are you creating your own JDK1.1.5 port on your own? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:52:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02941 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:52:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02919 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:52:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24191; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:51:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt