From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 00:22:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15444 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 00:22:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA15425 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 00:22:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24926 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 00:22:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804050822.AAA24926@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cool WebTop for Freebsd? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 00:22:02 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://developer.netscape.com/docs/examples/netcast/webwizard/webwizard.htm Just wondering if anyone has cool web page for FreeBSD. Tnks, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 01:29:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA20638 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 01:29:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA20610 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 01:29:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA10636 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:32:07 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from kuku) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:32:07 +0200 (MEST) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199804050932.LAA10636@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: bzip2 - is it worth to take a look at? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A new compression tool - bzip2 - is gaining popularity and I want to put it to discussion whether it could be used to augment the installation floppy towards even higher functionality like containing more tools etc. etc. bzip2 compresses about 20 % better than gzip. Try it at: ftp://ftp.gimp.org/pub/apps/ -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 01:46:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA22335 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 01:46:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freya.circle.net (freya.circle.net [209.95.95.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA22328 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 01:46:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tcobb@staff.circle.net) Received: by freya.circle.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <2G5C51TF>; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:36:27 -0400 Message-ID: <509A2986E5C5D111B7DD0060082F32A45AC3@freya.circle.net> From: tcobb To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Softupdate for 2.2.6? Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:36:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Are there softupdate patches available for 2.2.6? Thanks! - Troy Cobb Circle Net, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 03:57:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA02001 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 03:57:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from our.domaintje.com (our.domaintje.com [194.178.252.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA01963 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 03:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@our.domaintje.com) Received: from our.domaintje.com ([IPv6:::ffff:194.178.252.9] EHLO our.domaintje.com ident: IDENT-NONSENSE [port 53508]) by our.domaintje.com with ESMTP id <8311-178>; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:57:49 +0200 To: tcobb cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 05:36:26 EDT." <509A2986E5C5D111B7DD0060082F32A45AC3@freya.circle.net> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 12:57:35 +0200 From: Frank Ederveen Message-Id: <19980405105749Z8311-178+1@our.domaintje.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Are there softupdate patches available for 2.2.6? Not yet I think, but I'm checking my mail every few minutes because I hope to find an announcement of softupdates and/or CAM for 2.2.. There are some machines here that could really use it (newsservers with7 or so disks). Would development improve if I were to send some good bottles of beer somewhere? Regards, FrankE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 04:09:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05567 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:09:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05559 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:09:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA03153; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:09:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Frank Ederveen cc: tcobb , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 12:57:35 +0200." <19980405105749Z8311-178+1@our.domaintje.com> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 04:09:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3149.891774540@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Are there softupdate patches available for 2.2.6? > Not yet I think, but I'm checking my mail every few minutes > because I hope to find an announcement of softupdates and/or > CAM for 2.2.. There are some machines here that could really Q. Will any of the following features ever be in 2.2.x, even as 3rd party patches? A. 1. Soft Updates: No. 2. CAM: No. 3. SMP: No (you didn't ask, but I figured while I was making a list... :-) Sorry. :-( Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 04:56:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA10255 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:56:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA10246 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:56:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA03374; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:55:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Luigi Rizzo cc: frank@our.domaintje.com, tcobb@staff.circle.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 11:51:16 +0200." <199804050951.LAA00342@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 04:55:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3370.891777350@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG No implication of centralized control over third party patches was intended. I am simply saying that each task is hard enough to do that it's highly unlikely that the questioner will see such patches released. Jordan > > Q. Will any of the following features ever be in 2.2.x, even as > > 3rd party patches? > > > > A. 1. Soft Updates: No. > > 2. CAM: No. > > 3. SMP: No (you didn't ask, but I figured while I was making a list... : -) > > since when is anyone in control of third party patches ? > (i mean except licensing restrictions). If some good soul wants to do > the backport and provide a patchfile, i don't see any problem with > that. I understand that you are being realistic and "No" means "I don't > think we'll ever find someone willing to do the backport" > > cheers > luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 05:31:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA13797 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA13791 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:31:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA00376; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:00:13 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804051000.MAA00376@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: bzip2 - is it worth to take a look at? To: kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (Christoph Kukulies) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:00:13 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199804050932.LAA10636@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> from "Christoph Kukulies" at Apr 5, 98 11:31:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > A new compression tool - bzip2 - is gaining popularity and I > want to put it to discussion whether it could be used to augment > the installation floppy towards even higher functionality like > containing more tools etc. etc. > > bzip2 compresses about 20 % better than gzip. decoder size compared to gzip ? cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 05:31:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA13863 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:31:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA13829 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:31:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA00342; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:51:17 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804050951.LAA00342@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:51:16 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: frank@our.domaintje.com, tcobb@staff.circle.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3149.891774540@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 5, 98 04:08:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Q. Will any of the following features ever be in 2.2.x, even as > 3rd party patches? > > A. 1. Soft Updates: No. > 2. CAM: No. > 3. SMP: No (you didn't ask, but I figured while I was making a list... :-) since when is anyone in control of third party patches ? (i mean except licensing restrictions). If some good soul wants to do the backport and provide a patchfile, i don't see any problem with that. I understand that you are being realistic and "No" means "I don't think we'll ever find someone willing to do the backport" cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 06:44:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18968 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:44:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA18945 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:43:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA00493; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:11:23 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804051211.OAA00493@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:11:23 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: frank@our.domaintje.com, tcobb@staff.circle.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3370.891777350@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 5, 98 04:55:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > No implication of centralized control over third party patches was I should have specified that mine was meant only as a clarification to other people. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 06:44:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19028 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:44:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA19019 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:44:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id PAA08826 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:44:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id PAA08302; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:14:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980405151404.A8288@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:14:04 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: bzip2 - is it worth to take a look at? Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org References: <199804050932.LAA10636@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.4i In-Reply-To: <199804050932.LAA10636@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE>; from Christoph Kukulies on Sun, Apr 05, 1998 at 11:32:07AM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4180 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Christoph Kukulies: > bzip2 compresses about 20 % better than gzip. But take around 7 MB in memory for compression and decompression. Besides it is 5 times as slow... The memory consumption may be reduced but it will take at least 5 MB. I use it only when I'm really short of space. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Mar 30 22:21:31 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 06:54:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20155 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:54:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from our.domaintje.com (our.domaintje.com [194.178.252.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20147 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:54:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@our.domaintje.com) Received: from our.domaintje.com ([IPv6:::ffff:194.178.252.9] EHLO our.domaintje.com ident: IDENT-NONSENSE [port 9733]) by our.domaintje.com with ESMTP id <8314-172>; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:55:13 +0200 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: tcobb , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 04:09:00 PDT." <3149.891774540@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:55:06 +0200 From: Frank Ederveen Message-Id: <19980405135513Z8314-172+1@our.domaintje.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG jkh wrote: > A. 1. Soft Updates: No. > 2. CAM: No. > 3. SMP: No (you didn't ask, but I figured while I was making a list... :-) > Sorry. :-( Oh well, I'll just have to go to current then. It's about time we start testing SMP at our company also. Just putting in a new board and cpu is the cheapest way to get more umpfh. Any news on the european meeting this summer yet? FrankE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 07:09:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21756 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:09:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21750 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:09:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06569; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:08:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Frank Ederveen cc: tcobb , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:55:06 +0200." <19980405135513Z8314-172+1@our.domaintje.com> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 07:08:50 -0700 Message-ID: <6565.891785330@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Any news on the european meeting this summer yet? Not yet, we'll try and get some clarity on that soon though! Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 08:00:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28093 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:00:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from asteroid.svib.ru (root@asteroid.svib.ru [195.151.166.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28088 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru) Received: from minas-tirith.pol.ru (shuttle.svib.ru [195.151.166.144]) by asteroid.svib.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA13456; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:00:15 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru) Received: from minas-tirith.pol.ru (minas-tirith.pol.ru [127.0.0.1]) by minas-tirith.pol.ru (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06118; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:00:43 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from tarkhil@minas-tirith.pol.ru) Message-Id: <199804051500.TAA06118@minas-tirith.pol.ru> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Mark Murray cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: It's HARD to be an idiot ;-) (Was: Re: Perl5 port and PII: am I crazy? ) In-reply-to: Your message "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:25:13 +0200." <199804050725.JAA11696@greenpeace.grondar.za> Reply-To: tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 19:00:42 +0400 From: Alex Povolotsky Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG <199804050725.JAA11696@greenpeace.grondar.za>Mark Murray writes: >Alex Povolotsky wrote: >> Am I crazy, or my hardware, or makefile? > >Reinstall you rorts collection some where and try again. Methinks your >configuration or something is screwed. The P5 port works just fine for >me. I was pointed to my mistake... On that machine DATE WAS SET INCORRECTLY - too early. So, resulting file had earlier date than source, and make gone REALLY mad. It's hard to be an idiot ;-) Alex. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 08:49:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02332 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:49:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02327; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:49:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com) Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by narnia.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id JAA08664; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:45:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:45:32 -0600 (MDT) From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Message-Id: <199804051545.JAA08664@narnia.plutotech.com> To: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199804050951.LAA00342@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971204 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.0-CURRENT (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Q. Will any of the following features ever be in 2.2.x, even as >> 3rd party patches? >> >> A. 1. Soft Updates: No. >> 2. CAM: No. >> 3. SMP: No (you didn't ask, but I figured while I was making a list... :-) CAM: yes. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 09:34:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07494 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:34:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07461 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:33:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA03529; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:31:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Frank Ederveen cc: tcobb , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-Reply-To: <19980405105749Z8311-178+1@our.domaintje.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Frank Ederveen wrote: > > Are there softupdate patches available for 2.2.6? > Not yet I think, but I'm checking my mail every few minutes > because I hope to find an announcement of softupdates and/or > CAM for 2.2.. There are some machines here that could really > use it (newsservers with7 or so disks). > > Would development improve if I were to send some good bottles > of beer somewhere? Most likely not, softupdates isn't stable in current yet. > > Regards, > > FrankE > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 09:42:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:42:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09598 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:42:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id SAA28903; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:41:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:41:56 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Vadim Kolontsov Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C|Net about FreeBSD References: <19980330111026.56764@tversu.ru> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 05 Apr 1998 18:41:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: Vadim Kolontsov's message of "Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:10:26 +0400" Message-ID: Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Vadim Kolontsov writes: > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/?dd Hey, I took their personality test and it recommended that I try this weird new free OS they call FreeBSD or something ;) -- fprintf(stderr, "I have a closed mind. It helps keeping the rain out.\n"); To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 10:20:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 10:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14057; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 10:20:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA28720; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 10:20:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 10:20:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Timmons To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-Reply-To: <199804051545.JAA08664@narnia.plutotech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG WHEW! cvsup.freebsd.org and the news server across the room from it are looking forward to that :) On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > >> Q. Will any of the following features ever be in 2.2.x, even as > >> 3rd party patches? > >> > >> A. 1. Soft Updates: No. > >> 2. CAM: No. > >> 3. SMP: No (you didn't ask, but I figured while I was making a list... :-) > > CAM: yes. > > -- > Justin > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 11:06:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18438 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:06:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (cerebus.nectar.com [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18418 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:06:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@cerebus.nectar.com) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (localhost.communique.net [127.0.0.1]) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16247; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 13:05:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804051805.NAA16247@cerebus.nectar.com> From: Jacques Vidrine To: ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk (Steven Fletcher) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 8 char username limitations In-reply-to: <3529de82.72495505@mailhost.shellnet.co.uk> References: <3529de82.72495505@mailhost.shellnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:05:41 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Use Cyrus or some other mail server that does not require you to have UNIX accounts for each mailbox. Jacques Vidrine On 3 April 1998 at 13:11, ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk (Steven Fletcher) wrote: > I think that I am writing to the correct group here, please correct me > if not. > > I've been using sendmail 8.8.x on one of our FreeBSD (2.2.5-RELEASE) > boxes for a few months now, and this box has been acting as a mail > relay for a few of our "main" pickup and user send-out, WinNT > machines. > > However, the software running on the NT machines is now struggling, > and I've been asked to move all accounts from these to a BSD box, > running popper. However, here comes a cosmetic problem.......... > > The NT machines have been acting as POP3 email servers for years now, > with usernames such as "joebloggs-pickup". The idea is that we can > simply swap the machine IP's over, and no-one's mail will need > re-configuring (approx 160 users). Currently, I can't make such > usernames, and I'm pretty sure that a hack here and there should fix > that, but I'll need some pointers. > > Does anyone know how I can allow usernames longer than 8 chars? > > TIA, > > -Steven Fletcher (steven@shellnet.co.uk) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 11:24:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20067 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:24:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA20044 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:24:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLtg9-00063J-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 10:58:01 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 10:57:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-Reply-To: <3149.891774540@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Q. Will any of the following features ever be in 2.2.x, even as > 3rd party patches? ... > 2. CAM: No. That can't be. I already know that some people have CAM working in 2.2 now, and even Justin has stated here that he might do a patch kit for 2.2 (if someone else doesn't beat him to it). Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 11:55:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24967 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:55:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24954 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:55:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01357; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 13:54:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199804051854.NAA01357@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-Reply-To: <19980405105749Z8311-178+1@our.domaintje.com> from Frank Ederveen at "Apr 5, 98 12:57:35 pm" To: frank@our.domaintje.com (Frank Ederveen) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 13:54:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: tcobb@staff.circle.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Frank Ederveen said: > > Are there softupdate patches available for 2.2.6? > Not yet I think, but I'm checking my mail every few minutes > because I hope to find an announcement of softupdates and/or > CAM for 2.2.. There are some machines here that could really > use it (newsservers with7 or so disks). > > Would development improve if I were to send some good bottles > of beer somewhere? > The softupdates are intrusive enough that a new port would likely be needed to 2.2.X. FreeBSD has alot of pitfalls in the area where the softupdates code resides, and when I work on it (maybe once every few weeks), I find something else "new." It seems that others find the same kind of thing. The problem isn't with the softupdates codebase that Kirk did, but the slight differences between FreeBSD and BSD. So, if you think that alcohol is going to motivate, make sure that you send the alcohol out after it is done, and not before. :-). Seems to me that someone consuming alcohol would have "interesting" effects on the system, while trying to port softupdates :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 14:55:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24283 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:55:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23942 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:53:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id OAA17530; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd017528; Sun Apr 5 14:53:45 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id OAA16938; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:53:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804052153.OAA16938@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: C|Net about FreeBSD In-Reply-To: from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= at "Apr 5, 98 06:41:55 pm" To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: vadim@tversu.ru, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Vadim Kolontsov writes: > > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/?dd > > Hey, I took their personality test and it recommended that I try this > weird new free OS they call FreeBSD or something ;) > > -- > fprintf(stderr, "I have a closed mind. It helps keeping the rain out.\n"); > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message I tried it too, only the third try suggest FreeBSD to me. :-( Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 15:01:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25520 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25514 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:01:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12557; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:01:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd012543; Sun Apr 5 15:01:38 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA27114; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:01:34 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804052201.PAA27114@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:01:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, frank@our.domaintje.com, tcobb@staff.circle.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3370.891777350@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 5, 98 04:55:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > No implication of centralized control over third party patches was > intended. I am simply saying that each task is hard enough to do that > it's highly unlikely that the questioner will see such patches > released. > > > > Q. Will any of the following features ever be in 2.2.x, even as > > > 3rd party patches? > > > > > > A. 1. Soft Updates: No. > > > 2. CAM: No. > > > 3. SMP: No (you didn't ask, but I figured while I was making > > > a list... :-) > > > > since when is anyone in control of third party patches ? > > (i mean except licensing restrictions). If some good soul wants to do > > the backport and provide a patchfile, i don't see any problem with > > that. I understand that you are being realistic and "No" means "I don't > > think we'll ever find someone willing to do the backport" If patches were provided, say for soft updates, would they be integrated, or would thy have to remain "third party"? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 15:10:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26592 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:10:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au [203.17.66.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26535 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:10:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Peter.Jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au ([139.188.23.1]) by gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IVJIY6UXCG00005D@gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:09:58 +1000 Received: from cbd.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-10 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IVJHYUQTW0BTSFN9@cim.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 06 Apr 1998 07:42:15 +1000 Received: from gsms01.alcatel.com.au by cbd.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IVJHYRLMR4AZTRGG@cbd.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 06 Apr 1998 07:42:10 +1100 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsms01.alcatel.com.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) id HAA03666 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 06 Apr 1998 07:42:07 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 07:42:07 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Jeremy Subject: H/W specific optimisations (was Re: bcopy implementation) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <199804052142.HAA03666@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:20:08 +0200 (CEST), Mikael Karpberg wrote: >According to Dave Marquardt: >> > of not implementing this method in libc? >> >> Well, you said it yourself. "On the assumption, that the system has >> pentium processor...." Well, we can't assume that, since FreeBSD runs >> on 386s and up. > >Well, if you want everything to go faster, you optimize for the hardware >you're actually gonna run on. This is a fairly useful idea, although the suggested implementation: >ifdefs so that you would add -DOPTIMIZE_FOR_PENTIUM to CFLAGS in make.conf >and then make world. is still processor-specific: You need to do a `make world' for each different processor type. I'd like to suggest something along the lines that Sun does in Solaris 2.x: A directory tree /usr/platform contains all platform specific code, including (optional) platform-specific shared libraries which override the generic default library code. At load-time, the appropriate library is loaded (if it exists) by ld.so. As an example, on sun4m machines (eg SPARCstation 5,10,20), there's no platform specific library. On the sun4u (UltraSPARC) machines, the library includes __div64(), __mul64(), __rem64(), __udiv64(), __umul64(), __urem64(), memcmp(), memcpy(), memmove(), memset(). This approach has the advantage that only the platform-specific functions are in the library, so it's fairly small. Obviously, this solution only works for shared executables, and isn't quite as good as a compiling for a specific processor (because you can't in-line what become trivial functions - like the 64-bit math functions on the UltraSPARC). The nicety about this approach is that there's no run-time overhead (at least no more than for any other shared-library call). Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 15:19:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28969 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:19:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA28926 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:19:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLxMW-0006Bc-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:54:00 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:53:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, frank@our.domaintje.com, tcobb@staff.circle.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-Reply-To: <199804052201.PAA27114@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > If patches were provided, say for soft updates, would they be > integrated, or would thy have to remain "third party"? Would said patches work? Softupdates in current does not work. Someone would have to pull quite the rabbit out of their hat to get softupdates to work in 2.2.x before current. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 15:34:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04310 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:34:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (seoul-205.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03920 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:33:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA02753; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:33:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:33:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C|Net about FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199804052153.OAA16938@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > Vadim Kolontsov writes: > > > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/?dd > > > > Hey, I took their personality test and it recommended that I try this > > weird new free OS they call FreeBSD or something ;) > > > > -- > > fprintf(stderr, "I have a closed mind. It helps keeping the rain out.\n"); > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > I tried it too, only the third try suggest FreeBSD to me. :-( Heh. It suggested I try BeOs, something I've been meaning to try anyways. I guess that's cause I like Edsels ;) - alex "We are upping our standards ... so up yours." - Pat Paulsen for US of A Prez, 1988. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 15:36:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04656 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:36:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04204; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:34:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04966; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:34:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:45:32 MDT." <199804051545.JAA08664@narnia.plutotech.com> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:34:10 -0700 Message-ID: <4963.891815650@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > CAM: yes. Really? First I've heard of it. Since 2.2-stable isn't such a moving target, why not start releasing some patch sets then? :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 15:36:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05012 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:36:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04894; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:36:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@plutotech.com) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27867; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:36:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804052236.QAA27867@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:34:10 PDT." <4963.891815650@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 16:32:57 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> CAM: yes. > >Really? First I've heard of it. You should read the SCSI list. >Since 2.2-stable isn't such a moving >target, why not start releasing some patch sets then? :-) > > Jordan I need to bring in some features from current first: Interrupt Driven Configuration hooks CAM SWI hooks (should also be used by the DPT driver) buf_queue changes. After NAB and the completion of the BusLogic driver, I'll do it. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 15:49:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08896 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:49:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aenima.unixgeeks.net (obanta@aenima.unixgeeks.net [207.140.121.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08885 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:49:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obanta@aenima.unixgeeks.net) Received: (from obanta@localhost) by aenima.unixgeeks.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id RAA01647; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:49:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from obanta) To: Tom Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? References: From: Oliver Banta Date: 05 Apr 1998 17:48:24 -0500 In-Reply-To: Tom's message of Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <877m537umf.fsf@aenima.unixgeeks.net> Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.16 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tom writes: > On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > If patches were provided, say for soft updates, would they be > > integrated, or would thy have to remain "third party"? > > Would said patches work? > > Softupdates in current does not work. Someone would have to pull quite > the rabbit out of their hat to get softupdates to work in 2.2.x before > current. How do you figure? I thought Softupdates were based on 4.4BSD, so why would it be more difficult to port it to -STABLE? I haven't followed a lot of the recent changes in either tree, so there may be an obvious answer that I'm missing. Cheers, -- Oliver To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 16:00:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12318 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12224 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:59:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00553; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:58:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804052258.PAA00553@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Tom cc: Terry Lambert , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, frank@our.domaintje.com, tcobb@staff.circle.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 14:53:57 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:58:47 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not so sure about that . -current has had quite a few VM changes in it. Amancio > > On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > If patches were provided, say for soft updates, would they be > > integrated, or would thy have to remain "third party"? > > Would said patches work? > > Softupdates in current does not work. Someone would have to pull quite > the rabbit out of their hat to get softupdates to work in 2.2.x before > current. > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > > Tom > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 16:20:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18208 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:20:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18068 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:20:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA18007 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd018005; Sun Apr 5 16:20:04 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id QAA19529 for hackers@Freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:20:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804052320.QAA19529@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Kernel device driver handbook ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:20:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does there exist any "manual" about how to write a kernel device driver ? I am mainly interested in how to map memory, attach IRQs, etc. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 16:20:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18279 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:20:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from loas.clark.net (root@mail.clark.net [168.143.0.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18174 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:20:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beekey@clark.net) From: beekey@clark.net Received: from stout (basil.network42.clark.net [207.196.110.227]) by loas.clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA25928 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3528128F.4DEA@clark.net> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 19:23:59 -0400 Reply-To: beekey@clark.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Laptop BIOS problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just received a new Toshiba Tecra 750DVD laptop (BIOS 6.40) and am attempting to install FreeBSD 2.2.5. Went through the standard FIPS which worked fine. Went through the install process (many times) booting from a 2.2.5 CD and from a bootable floppy. Install goes without any glitches. However, whenever I report I get the following error: BIOS basemem (639K) != RTC basemem (640K), setting to BIOS value then the thing stops cold. At this point you either yank all power sources or find the nearest paper clip for the reset button. After doing several unnatural things with fixit CD's and floppies and building 2.2.5 kernels on another system and transferring them over, the problems seems to lie somewhere in the function containing the BIOS check in the file machdep.c (haven't stepped through each line of the function). I tried 2.2.6 also (without all of the kernel rebuilds) and got the same RTC error and the same lock up. On other systems I get the RTC error, but the boot process continues merrily along. If anyone has any solutions, pointers, or has encountered this before, I'd appreciate any pointers. (As a slightly useless side note, I have cohorts that have RedHat 5.0 running on the same system and model, but that's not an option.) Thanks. Mike Beekey beekey@clark.net (Send email for PGP Key) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 17:13:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27336 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:13:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27327 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:13:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01652; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:12:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804060012.TAA01652@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-Reply-To: <877m537umf.fsf@aenima.unixgeeks.net> from Oliver Banta at "Apr 5, 98 05:48:24 pm" To: obanta@unixgeeks.net (Oliver Banta) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:12:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: tom@sdf.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Tom writes: > > > On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > If patches were provided, say for soft updates, would they be > > > integrated, or would thy have to remain "third party"? > > > > Would said patches work? > > > > Softupdates in current does not work. Someone would have to pull quite > > the rabbit out of their hat to get softupdates to work in 2.2.x before > > current. > > How do you figure? I thought Softupdates were based on 4.4BSD, so > why would it be more difficult to port it to -STABLE? I haven't > followed a lot of the recent changes in either tree, so there may be > an obvious answer that I'm missing. > Okay, the best thing that can be said, is those who might be interested in a port should try to do it. Don't underestimate the issues. Again, it isn't Kirks problem, other than it is a result of changes that we have made. I am not going to be able to help with a 2.2.X port, but if a group of people decide to do it, no-one will stop them :-). John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 17:15:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27779 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27740 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:15:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01657; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:13:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804060013.TAA01657@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-Reply-To: <199804052201.PAA27114@usr05.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Apr 5, 98 10:01:33 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:13:15 -0500 (EST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, frank@our.domaintje.com, tcobb@staff.circle.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > No implication of centralized control over third party patches was > > intended. I am simply saying that each task is hard enough to do that > > it's highly unlikely that the questioner will see such patches > > released. > > > > > > Q. Will any of the following features ever be in 2.2.x, even as > > > > 3rd party patches? > > > > > > > > A. 1. Soft Updates: No. > > > > 2. CAM: No. > > > > 3. SMP: No (you didn't ask, but I figured while I was making > > > > a list... :-) > > > > > > since when is anyone in control of third party patches ? > > > (i mean except licensing restrictions). If some good soul wants to do > > > the backport and provide a patchfile, i don't see any problem with > > > that. I understand that you are being realistic and "No" means "I don't > > > think we'll ever find someone willing to do the backport" > > If patches were provided, say for soft updates, would they be > integrated, or would thy have to remain "third party"? > IMO, we have already hacked 2.2.X too much. It is time to use it as purely a stability release only. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 18:25:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16033 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:25:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15979 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:25:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08709; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd008675; Sun Apr 5 18:25:12 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA09720; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:25:04 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804060125.SAA09720@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:25:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tom@sdf.com, tlambert@primenet.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, frank@our.domaintje.com, tcobb@staff.circle.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804052258.PAA00553@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Apr 5, 98 03:58:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > If patches were provided, say for soft updates, would they be > > > integrated, or would thy have to remain "third party"? > > > > Would said patches work? > > > > Softupdates in current does not work. Someone would have to pull quite > > the rabbit out of their hat to get softupdates to work in 2.2.x before > > current. > > Not so sure about that . -current has had quite a few VM changes in it. I think this is very true; this is pretty much what I was alluding to with my question. I think -stable would be an easy port, if someone were familiar with the OpenBSD code and wanted to take a stab at it. Most of the work is in the interaction with the VM system. 2.2.x would not be a picnic; some of the assumptions already being corrected for in the -current port are based on a unified VM and buffer cache model, which is present is -stable, as well. But it's cwertainly not outside the realm of possibility for an undergraduate student who has half a year of independent study to do something with, and no idea what to tackle. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 19:04:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26887 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:04:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26864 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:04:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10862; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:34:31 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA02894; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:34:31 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980406113430.48276@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:34:30 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Ulf Zimmermann , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel device driver handbook ? References: <199804052320.QAA19529@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199804052320.QAA19529@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net>; from Ulf Zimmermann on Sun, Apr 05, 1998 at 04:20:02PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 5 April 1998 at 16:20:02 -0700, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > Does there exist any "manual" about how to write a kernel device driver ? > I am mainly interested in how to map memory, attach IRQs, etc. Start with http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ddwg/ddwg.html. It's incomplete, but maybe you can help complete it. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 19:50:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04353 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:50:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au [203.17.66.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04301 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:50:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Peter.Jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au ([139.188.23.1]) by gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IVJRM2ITG00001BH@gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:18:16 +1000 Received: from cbd.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-10 #23324) with ESMTP id <01IVJRLYLGA8C2IR0D@cim.alcatel.com.au> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:18:12 +1000 Received: from gsms01.alcatel.com.au by cbd.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IVJRLVK9DSAZTRFA@cbd.alcatel.com.au> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:18:07 +1100 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsms01.alcatel.com.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA13400 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:18:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:18:03 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: bzip2 - is it worth to take a look at? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <199804060218.MAA13400@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:32:07 +0200 (MEST), Christoph Kukulies wrote: >A new compression tool - bzip2 - is gaining popularity I've only seen a single other reference to it, although that reference suggested it was also being used for distributing Linux add-ons. >bzip2 compresses about 20 % better than gzip. I did a few tests of my own with bzip2 on FreeBSD executables and found a 5-10% saving over gzip (YMMV). The big killer was the speed - I found that bzip2 was somewhat slower than gzip -9 to compress, and around an order of magnitude slower to decompress (this was running on a superSPARC-II processor - I don't know how processor-sensitive the code is and can't quickly check on a FreeBSD machine). In the specific case of the installation floppy itself, where size is the critical factor and speed is relatively unimportant (unless you have a 386, like one of my machines), bzip2 may be useful. I would not like to see bzip2 used in place of gzip for the CD-ROM installation archives. Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 22:27:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22448 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:27:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from widefw.csl.sony.co.jp (widefw.csl.sony.co.jp [133.138.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22436 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:27:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kjc@csl.sony.co.jp) Received: from hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp (root@hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp [43.27.98.57]) by widefw.csl.sony.co.jp (8.8.8/3.6W) with ESMTP id OAA21662; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:27:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (kjc@[127.0.0.1]) by hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp (8.8.8/3.6W/hotaka/98021914) with ESMTP id OAA14517; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:27:00 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199804060527.OAA14517@hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp> To: rsvp-test@ISI.EDU cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: altq-1.0.1 is available Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 14:27:00 +0900 From: Kenjiro Cho Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A new release of ALTQ (finally version 1.0.1!) is available from http://www.csl.sony.co.jp/person/kjc/software.html or ftp://ftp.csl.sony.co.jp/pub/kjc/altq-1.0.1.tar.gz The release includes: alternate queueing support for FreeBSD-2.2.[1256]R kernel. CBQ, WFQ, RED, and FIFOQ implementations tools for CBQ RSVP stubs for CBQ ECN (for IPv4) support in RED and TCP What's New since version 0.4.3: - FreeBSD-2.2.6 based. - rsvp rel4.2a3 support and several fixes are added. - RED parameters are adjusted when a slow link is used. - integration of RED into CBQ. RED (and ECN) can be used on a class queue basis. - CBQ supports more flexible filters. (TOS based queueing, IPsec, IPv6) - tx and lnc driver support. - fix the performance problem of the de driver We have made many changes and code cleanup since 0.4.3. The changes include: file names: ("altq_" prefix is added to the kernel files.) style changes: (indentations, etc) removal of unuded code: (#ifdef for the original code became too messy and they are removed.) So, don't forget to recompile the related tools. IPv6 and IPsec support is under development, and it is only for IPv6 developpers at this point. --- Kenjiro Cho Sony Computer Science Laboratory Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 5 23:21:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05169 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:21:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [209.81.9.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA05159 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id XAA26765 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:21:40 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:21:40 -0700 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199804060621.XAA26765@monk.via.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: de problem X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If I unplug the ethernet cable form the DE card in my machine, the interface goes dead and stays dead - even after the cable has been plugged back in. I've seen this with BAY and Kingston de cards. -joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 00:23:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14578 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:23:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from euthyphro.uchicago.edu (euthyphro.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14554 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:23:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@phaedrus.uchicago.edu) Received: from phaedrus.uchicago.edu (phaedrus [128.135.21.10]) by euthyphro.uchicago.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA03334; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:23:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by phaedrus.uchicago.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id CAA02840; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:23:06 -0500 (CDT) To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? References: <199804060125.SAA09720@usr04.primenet.com> From: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 06 Apr 1998 02:23:06 -0500 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:25:04 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: <87af9z2z39.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Lines: 35 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.3/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > > > > If patches were provided, say for soft updates, would they be > > > > integrated, or would thy have to remain "third party"? > > > > > > Would said patches work? > > > > > > Softupdates in current does not work. Someone would have to pull quite > > > the rabbit out of their hat to get softupdates to work in 2.2.x before > > > current. > > > > Not so sure about that . -current has had quite a few VM changes in it. > > I think this is very true; this is pretty much what I was alluding > to with my question. I think -stable would be an easy port, if > someone were familiar with the OpenBSD code and wanted to take a > stab at it. > > Most of the work is in the interaction with the VM system. > > 2.2.x would not be a picnic; some of the assumptions already being > corrected for in the -current port are based on a unified VM and > buffer cache model, which is present is -stable, as well. But it's > cwertainly not outside the realm of possibility for an undergraduate > student who has half a year of independent study to do something with, > and no idea what to tackle. Hm... does anyone have a sense of what the lifetime of 2.2.x is? I'm just thinking if it took someone half a year, and 2.2.x would be dead in 9 months (e.g.), then it wouldn't really be that worthwhile. -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 00:37:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA16723 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:37:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA16693 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:36:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA25541; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:36:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "06 Apr 1998 02:23:06 CDT." <87af9z2z39.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:36:31 -0700 Message-ID: <25532.891848191@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hm... does anyone have a sense of what the lifetime of 2.2.x is? > I'm just thinking if it took someone half a year, and 2.2.x would be > dead in 9 months (e.g.), then it wouldn't really be that worthwhile. It's impossible to say for sure, given that such things are driven more by user demand than by any deliberate plan, but I suspect that we won't see 2.2.x run much longer than November 1998, after which it will go very much into legacy support mode. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 01:01:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19295 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:01:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA19288 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:01:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA01733; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:27:46 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804060627.IAA01733@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:27:46 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org, tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <25532.891848191@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 6, 98 00:36:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hm... does anyone have a sense of what the lifetime of 2.2.x is? > > I'm just thinking if it took someone half a year, and 2.2.x would be > > dead in 9 months (e.g.), then it wouldn't really be that worthwhile. > > It's impossible to say for sure, given that such things are driven > more by user demand than by any deliberate plan, but I suspect that we > won't see 2.2.x run much longer than November 1998, after which it > will go very much into legacy support mode. "legacy support mode" sounds as "dead" to me... the question is if next stable release will be 3.0 (i.e. including SMP, as I understand it) or something called 2.3 Having not followed much 3.0 development (and perhaps others have the same problem) I cannot really say what are the significant differences between 2.2.X and 3.0 and what could be backported. Can you make a short list of the most important differences and a rough indication of the stability of each item and difficulty in porting things back to 2.X ? What I know (might be completely wrong) is the following item stability backport --------------------------------------------------------------------- CAM good ? feasible ? SMP ?? hard softupdates not yet hard cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 01:17:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA20689 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:17:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA20673 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:17:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA11302; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:19:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:19:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Joe McGuckin cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de problem In-Reply-To: <199804060621.XAA26765@monk.via.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Joe McGuckin wrote: > > If I unplug the ethernet cable form the DE card in my machine, the > interface goes dead and stays dead - even after the cable has been plugged > back in. > > I've seen this with BAY and Kingston de cards. If you're running version which supports 'media' flags to the interface, then manually run ifconfig to select the proper media (de driver tries autoselecting other media in case of link failure, and doesn't autosense when the proper link goes up again). If not, try doing ifconfig de0 down, then up - at least this helps in my case... Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 01:29:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21930 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:29:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21923 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:29:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03135; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:28:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804060828.BAA03135@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Andrzej Bialecki cc: Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Apr 1998 10:19:36 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 01:28:12 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Me Too, I had a weird problem with the de driver and the only way that I managed to get back my connection was to set the media autoselect and then bring the interface de up and down on both machines. I am using the Bay Networks 21140A based card. Tnks, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 01:53:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24591 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:53:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24585 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:53:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id BAA19741 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd019739; Mon Apr 6 01:53:55 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id BAA06818 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:53:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804060853.BAA06818@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Mylex DAC960 controller To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:53:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If anyone has a Mylex DAC960 controller, I would like to ask him to contact me. My driver is far is detecting the controller and system drives and I need some people with different config to see if the routine works right. myx0: rev 0x03 int a irq 11 on pci0.15.1 Mylex DAC960PJ Firmware 4.04-0-00 2 channel(s) Channels are Ultra SCSI 20mbit/sec 16 bit. 128 max commands. 16 devices per channel, 32 max system drives 8192 Kbytes of EDO with ECC error correction installed. No rebuild or parity-check is in progress. System Drive 0: 8190 Mbytes, Raid Level 5, Drive Online. System Drive 1: 8190 Mbytes, Raid Level 0, Drive Online. Everything beside detecting is still in work. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 01:58:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25242 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:58:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25220 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:58:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA08107; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:57:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Luigi Rizzo cc: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org, tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Apr 1998 08:27:46 +0200." <199804060627.IAA01733@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 01:57:25 -0700 Message-ID: <8103.891853045@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > "legacy support mode" sounds as "dead" to me... the question is if > next stable release will be 3.0 (i.e. including SMP, as I understand > it) or something called 2.3 No, there will be no 2.3. Whether or not 3.0 is "stable" or not at the outset will also just have to depend on a variety of factors and it's too early to say whether it'll be 3.0 or 3.0.5 or even 3.0.6 before it's safe to jump aboard with that branch. > Having not followed much 3.0 development (and perhaps others have the > same problem) I cannot really say what are the significant differences > between 2.2.X and 3.0 and what could be backported. Sure you can - cvs diff's output is all any of us have when it comes to figuring out how much has actually changed between branches - you think any of us remember even half of what's gone in since we branched? No way! :-) > Can you make a short list of the most important differences and a rough > indication of the stability of each item and difficulty in porting > things back to 2.X ? No. That's a lot of work. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 03:48:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA04122 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 03:48:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA04099 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 03:47:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA01905; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:13:07 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804060913.LAA01905@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:13:06 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org, tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <8103.891853045@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 6, 98 01:57:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Can you make a short list of the most important differences and a rough > > indication of the stability of each item and difficulty in porting > > things back to 2.X ? > > No. That's a lot of work. :-) it doesn't need to be exact, or exhaustive, and i am talking about MOST IMPORTANT stuff, those that makes a difference between releases, and from the user's perspective correspond to significant changes in functionality of the system. I don't expect the list to have more than 10-15 big such items (forget small patches and improvements to existing subsytems). luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 06:26:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23401 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:26:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA23392 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:26:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199804061325.JAA22597@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:26:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-Reply-To: <8103.891853045@time.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > No, there will be no 2.3. Whether or not 3.0 is "stable" or not at > the outset will also just have to depend on a variety of factors and > it's too early to say whether it'll be 3.0 or 3.0.5 or even 3.0.6 > before it's safe to jump aboard with that branch. So we can expect a rerun of 2.0? -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 06:34:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24546 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:34:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24533 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:34:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07996; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:33:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Jamie Bowden cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:26:54 EDT." <199804061325.JAA22597@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 06:33:44 -0700 Message-ID: <7993.891869624@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG One hopes not, but I'm just trying to be conservative here and avoiding instilling any false hopes. Jordan > On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > No, there will be no 2.3. Whether or not 3.0 is "stable" or not at > > the outset will also just have to depend on a variety of factors and > > it's too early to say whether it'll be 3.0 or 3.0.5 or even 3.0.6 > > before it's safe to jump aboard with that branch. > > So we can expect a rerun of 2.0? > > -- > Jamie Bowden > Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net > > If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. > -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 06:36:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25073 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:36:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA25064 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@bowtie.nl) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 27219 on Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:34:51 GMT; id NAA27219 efrom: marc@bowtie.nl; eto: UNKNOWN Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bowtie.nl (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15192; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:33:42 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199804061333.PAA15192@bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de problem In-reply-to: abial's message of Mon, 06 Apr 1998 10:19:36 +0200. Reply-to: marc@bowtie.nl Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 15:33:41 +0200 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Joe McGuckin wrote: > > > > > If I unplug the ethernet cable form the DE card in my machine, the > > interface goes dead and stays dead - even after the cable has been plugged > > back in. > > > > I've seen this with BAY and Kingston de cards. > > If you're running version which supports 'media' flags to the interface, > then manually run ifconfig to select the proper media (de driver tries > autoselecting other media in case of link failure, and doesn't autosense > when the proper link goes up again). If not, try doing ifconfig de0 down, > then up - at least this helps in my case... > Hi, How do I tell which version I have, and if I have the right version how do I tell it to use the proper media? Thanks, Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 08:17:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04853 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:17:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyber3.servtech.com (root@cyber3.servtech.com [199.1.22.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04847 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:17:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from housley@pr-comm.com) Received: from pr-comm.com (root@prcomm.roc.servtech.com [204.181.3.14]) by cyber3.servtech.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA14447 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pr-comm.com (housley@hatchling.int.pr-comm.com [192.168.70.48]) by pr-comm.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02375 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:16:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from housley@pr-comm.com) Message-ID: <3528F1B4.7BE87776@pr-comm.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:16:04 -0400 From: "James E. Housley" Organization: PR Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Daylight Savings Time - bug Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1EDFFF7F9F4537F58A64C6AC" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1EDFFF7F9F4537F58A64C6AC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did anyone else notice that the Sunday AM Daily and Security scripts didn't run with the change of time to daylight savings? Is this a know glitcht that only happens once a year and there for is not a big problem? Jim -- -------------------------------------------+------------------------- James E. Housley | PGP: 1024/03983B4D PR Communications, Inc. | 2C 3F 3A 0D A8 D8 C3 13 www.servtech.com/public/pr-comm | 7C F0 B5 BF 27 8B 92 FE --------------1EDFFF7F9F4537F58A64C6AC Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for James E. Housley Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: James E. Housley n: Housley;James E. org: PR Communications, Inc. adr: 465 Blossom Road;;;Rochester;New York;14610-0725;USA email;internet: housley@pr-comm.com title: Design Engineer tel;work: (716) 288-7900 tel;fax: (716) 288-7909 x-mozilla-cpt: pr-comm.com;2 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------1EDFFF7F9F4537F58A64C6AC-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 09:54:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16020 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:54:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15992 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:54:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18880; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:53:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd018848; Mon Apr 6 09:53:47 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA21621; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:53:45 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804061653.JAA21621@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? To: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:53:45 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <87af9z2z39.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> from "sfarrell+lists@farrell.org" at Apr 6, 98 02:23:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Most of the work is in the interaction with the VM system. > > > > 2.2.x would not be a picnic; some of the assumptions already being > > corrected for in the -current port are based on a unified VM and > > buffer cache model, which is present is -stable, as well. But it's > > cwertainly not outside the realm of possibility for an undergraduate > > student who has half a year of independent study to do something with, > > and no idea what to tackle. > > Hm... does anyone have a sense of what the lifetime of 2.2.x is? > I'm just thinking if it took someone half a year, and 2.2.x would be > dead in 9 months (e.g.), then it wouldn't really be that worthwhile. It would be if you were able to get a Master's degree out of it. 8-). That's certainly not outside the realm of possibility, either. The issues caused by VM and buffer cache unification, alone, would be worthy of study. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 10:10:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18794 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:10:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18769 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA02143; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:11:13 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:11:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Marc van Kempen cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de problem In-Reply-To: <199804061333.PAA15192@bowtie.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Marc van Kempen wrote: > > If you're running version which supports 'media' flags to the interface, > > then manually run ifconfig to select the proper media (de driver tries > > autoselecting other media in case of link failure, and doesn't autosense > > when the proper link goes up again). If not, try doing ifconfig de0 down, > > then up - at least this helps in my case... > > > > Hi, > > How do I tell which version I have, and if I have the right version If you do a 'ifconfig -a', and the interface parameters mention something like 'media', that's the new version. > how do I tell it to use the proper media? E.g: to select UTP interface on de0 card you do: ifconfig de0 media 10baseT/UTP This is described in excruciating details in man page... :-) Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 10:12:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19217 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:12:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA19188 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:12:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA18463 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:12:18 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA29452 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:55:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199804052055.WAA29452@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Summary: shopping for new video adapter To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:55:32 +0200 (MET DST) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been asked for a summary, so here it is: - My question was specific to whether a Matrox Millenium II would be a good choice for (stock) Xfree and whether it would run OK on a 75Mc PCI bus. The general opinion seems to be that a Matrox Millenium II is indeed a very good card, and should run without problems on a 75Mc bus. Even 83Mc buses seem to work OK. Whether stock Xfree is OK seems to be under debate. Both claims that stock Xfree is OK and claims that you need Xaccel are present. A trip to www.xfree86.org seems to indicate that the Xfree86 distribution now supports the Millenium II. You want to take a close look on the RAMDAC speed in case you want the highest resolutions and refresh rates (and you probably do ;-) So, people sound pleased and I'll probably be getting in the near term. Wilko Snippets of received comments: ... Not unless you are willing to buy Xaccel. XFree86 doesn't support it very well at all. Xaccel 4.01 is pretty good, modulo some font-handling bugs. ... Except for teh "stock XFree" part. There *is* an X server for it, off of the SUSE stuff. But the freebsd port is unsupported. I dont' know abotu a 75MHz bus speed, though. ... I have a Millenium II, and while I only run it at 66mhz, I am very pleased with it. It comes with a minimum of 4M, and I run it at 1152x900 32bpp with that configuration. Even though the XFree86 3.3.1 drivers are considered alpha, I have had no problems with the card. I don't know about the 75mhz bus speed only because I haven't jumped into the overclocking world yet. All Millenium II's can be upgraded to 16M. It also loads my customized X cursor fully, which my #9 Motion 771 2M card didn't do. ... I've run several Milleniums at 83MHz bus speed with no difficulties. 1600x1200 is crystal clear. I highly recommend the card. ... The 4mb Millenium (not millenium 2) I have does this... I've not found any major problems with it... I beleive the driver is OK (i.e. pretty 'accelerated' ;-) ... Yes. So would the Mystique I think (using both here in 32 and 16 bit, 1152x864). They can push to 1600 x 1200. Be sure you get at least 4 MB, and a 250 MHz DAC (220 is not fast enough for 74Hz / 1200, I think). Stock 3.3.1, 3.3.2 better (Beta support for Matrox). Otherwise, some high-end S3 (Matrox is in the SVGA server). ... I can certainly say that, among the commonly available i386 video cards, the Matrox Millenium (all variants) have the best quality video output. This is likely helped along by the fact that many of the competitors use integrated RAMDACS, whereas the Millenium has a seperate TI3026 RAMDAC. Highly recommended. Don't know about 75 MHz bus speed, but while I have non fear whatsoever of overclocking CPUs, I firmly avoid doing it to things like PCI busses, since verification of proper behaviour is so much more difficult. ... _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl __________________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD ______ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 10:47:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24798 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24714 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:46:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.12]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27828 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:40:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25022; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:40:46 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980406194046.46985@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:40:46 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: IPv6/IPsec package Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Forwarded message from "Mire, John" ----- Message-ID: From: jmire@lsumc.edu (Mire, John) To: "'wosch@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: New ports added/updated last two weeks Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:56:45 -0500 Return-Receipt-To: "Mire, John" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Length: 531 i'm interested in a NRL IPv6/IPsec package and have several questions... AA: other than searching the ports collection and man pages on freebsd.org, how does one ascertain if there is a port for freebsd? BB: if the package has a BSDI and NetBSD 1.2 ports, which is closest to FreeBSD? CC: is this a question germain to the ports@freebsd.org group? \john -- John Mire: jmire@lsumc.edu LSUMC Shreveport Computer Services pgpkey: voice: 318.675.5443 fax: 318.675.4641 ----- End forwarded message ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 11:12:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29064 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28883 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:12:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tercio@mpc.com.br) Received: from tercio.bauer.com.br (d1p10.mpcnet.com.br [200.246.29.74]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA24355 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:09:40 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <199804061809.PAA24355@server4.mpcbbs.com.br> From: "Tercio Esperandio" To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Date: Mon, 06 Apr 98 15:03:54 Reply-To: "Tercio Esperandio" X-Mailer: PMMail 1.91 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 11:19:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01207 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from computer.eng.mindspring.net (computer.eng.mindspring.net [207.69.183.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01032 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:18:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ahobson@computer.eng.mindspring.net) Received: (from ahobson@localhost) by computer.eng.mindspring.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) id OAA22227; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:18:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Hobson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Optimization bug with gcc 2.7.2 + mktemp Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 06 Apr 1998 14:18:21 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Quassia Gnus v0.29/XEmacs 20.5(beta30) - "Moxoto" X-Face: (e_H,)"'M4u!E!3"|XVHJ=[/_.:z73Z^oGf")[Payuf Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12294 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from the.oneinsane.net (insane@link2.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12282 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:15:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane@oneinsane.net) Received: (from insane@localhost) Message-ID: <19980406121526.22656@the.oneinsane.net> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:15:26 -0700 From: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug References: <3528F1B4.7BE87776@pr-comm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74e In-Reply-To: <3528F1B4.7BE87776@pr-comm.com>; from James E. Housley on Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 11:16:04AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD the.oneinsane.net 2.2.5-STABLE X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG James & Everyone.. I saw it too.. The header of this message has my version of FreeBSD.. Just curious on the outcome of why it occurred. TIA Ron On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 11:16:04AM -0400, James E. Housley wrote: > Did anyone else notice that the Sunday AM Daily and Security scripts > didn't run with the change of time to daylight savings? Is this a know > glitcht that only happens once a year and there for is not a big > problem? > > Jim > -- > -------------------------------------------+------------------------- > James E. Housley | PGP: 1024/03983B4D > PR Communications, Inc. | 2C 3F 3A 0D A8 D8 C3 13 > www.servtech.com/public/pr-comm | 7C F0 B5 BF 27 8B 92 FE -- -------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void -------------------------------------------------------- It's so nice to be insane, nobody asks you to explain. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 12:33:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15943 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:33:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15742 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:32:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA11595; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:32:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980406143234.36976@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:32:34 -0500 From: dannyman To: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug Mail-Followup-To: Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <3528F1B4.7BE87776@pr-comm.com> <19980406121526.22656@the.oneinsane.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <19980406121526.22656@the.oneinsane.net>; from Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson on Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 12:15:26PM -0700 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 12:15:26PM -0700, Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson wrote: > James & Everyone.. I saw it too.. The header of this message has > my version of FreeBSD.. Just curious on the outcome of why > it occurred. > On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 11:16:04AM -0400, James E. Housley wrote: > > Did anyone else notice that the Sunday AM Daily and Security scripts > > didn't run with the change of time to daylight savings? Is this a know > > glitcht that only happens once a year and there for is not a big > > problem? One note I've seen is this isn't a cron bug, but stems from the fact that on the day we switch to DST, there is no 0200h - it's really just an oversight on the part of whoever it was that set the default here to 2AM. Me, my crons run at 0430h, for sentimental reasons. :) -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 12:34:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16054 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:34:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from azrael.uoregon.edu (azrael.uoregon.edu [128.223.194.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15978 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:33:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wesman@azrael.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (wesman@localhost) by azrael.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA17938 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:33:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Wesley Horner Reply-To: wesman@oregon.uoregon.edu To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: I hope someone is following this up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This seems like a great opportunity for both sides. The visablity for FreeBSD would be nice and it would help in keeping things compatible. my 2 cents worth, wes > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 20:46:22 -0800 > From: Wilfredo Sanchez > To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: FreeBSD and Rhapsody > > Howdy- > > I'm having a hard time figuring out how one becomes a FreeBSD developer > from your web site, so perhaps you guys can help me out. I work for Apple > Computer, and as you may know, we're building this operating system with > the code name Rhapsody. Rhapsody has a full BSD subsystem in it, and we'd > like to get a relationship going with FreeBSD if the FreeBSD team is > interested. > > Most of our BSD code comes from 4BSD Lite, which is a bit dated. Since > last year, I've updated a lot of our user commands using NetBSD's > sources. The decision to use NetBSD was pretty much arbitrary, although > the fact that I can acces their code via CVS, and now can commit changes > back in was a big influence. > > In any case, the BSD kernel guys at Apple usually use FreeBSD as a > reference. This led to some small gotchas due to differences between > NetBSD and FreeBSD, such as the fact that NetBSD lets you change mode > bits on symlinks, which FreeBSD (I think) doesn't. So I had a little > trouble with commands like cp, which tried to do this thing we don't > support. I haven't gotten to the network and system commands and the > libraries, where I think the biggest incompatibility problem lie, and the > consensus is that I should look into using FreeBSD for those. There will > be problems in any case, since we implement BSD over Mach, which makes > commands like ps somewhat unique from other BSD's, but the goal is to > minimize that. > > What I need to know is the degree that you would like to work together > with Apple, if at all, in this regard. It's important that we be able to > send our changes back upstream, since I believe that staying in sync with > our source provider is more important than any competitive advantage that > might buy us. UNIX is of little importance to Rhapsody from a market > standpoint; there are plenty of good UNIX flavors that one can get for > free; the value in Rhapsody lies elsewhere. But BSD *is* important for > several reason, which I'm sure you appreciate. The key is we don't want > to provide "a better UNIX", we just want to be compatible and play nice > with other systems, and have all that functionality. To that end, we > don't need to be unique, and cooperating with you guys would be much > better. > > I tried a few times to get CVSup to work on Rhapsody, and I found it > somewhat difficult, so I don't have that tool, although I could set up a > FreeBSD box to do that. Currently I plan to use the Walnut Creek CDs, > since that's more convenient. The question is how I would get changes > back up to FreeBSD. CVS access would be ideal, and is our current > arrangement with NetBSD. I understand that such access isn't easily > granted, so I'm open to alternatives. > > I should mention that I'm really not all that interested in the merits > of one BSD effort over the others. I'm a little surprised at the > animosity between some developers toward the other groups, and don't > really want to get involved in that debate, so don't tell me why the > other guys stink, in case you are so inclined. I have no loyalties > towards any one group. Ideally, we'd get the best of each, although I > think we'll need a primary to keep things sane, and our kernel guys like > FreeBSD. > > I believe that getting something set up that let us work together will > be mutually beneficial. We can leverage the work you have done, and you > can some paid developers to help with bugs. > > Thanks, > -Fred > > > --- > Wilfredo Sanchez - wsanchez@apple.com - 408.974-5174 > Apple Computer, Inc. - Rhapsody Core Operating Systems Group > 2 Infinite Loop, Mail Stop 302-4K, Cupertino, CA 95014 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 17:15:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08586 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:15:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08581 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:15:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10844; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:15:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: wesman@oregon.uoregon.edu cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I hope someone is following this up In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:33:55 PDT." Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:15:13 -0700 Message-ID: <10841.891908113@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This seems like a great opportunity for both sides. The visablity for > FreeBSD would be nice and it would help in keeping things compatible. Yes, we're already in contact with the individual from Apple and having a dialog now. Thanks. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 17:30:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10682 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:30:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10677 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:30:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA20242; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:30:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980406193026.45018@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:30:26 -0500 From: dannyman To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , wesman@oregon.uoregon.edu Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I hope someone is following this up Mail-Followup-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , wesman@oregon.uoregon.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <10841.891908113@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <10841.891908113@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:15:13PM -0700 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:15:13PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > This seems like a great opportunity for both sides. The visablity for > > FreeBSD would be nice and it would help in keeping things compatible. > > Yes, we're already in contact with the individual from Apple and > having a dialog now. Thanks. W4R3Z !!! =) -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 17:44:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12510 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:44:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12501 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:44:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id KAA19819; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:45:00 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804070045.KAA19819@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: I hope someone is following this up In-Reply-To: <19980406193026.45018@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> from dannyman at "Apr 6, 98 07:30:26 pm" To: djhoward@uiuc.edu (dannyman) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:45:00 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG dannyman wrote: > W4R3Z !!! > > =) WTFDTM? (What the does that mean). -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 17:47:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12910 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:47:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12815 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:46:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA25196; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:46:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980406194627.58827@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:46:27 -0500 From: dannyman To: John Birrell Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I hope someone is following this up Mail-Followup-To: John Birrell , hackers@freebsd.org References: <19980406193026.45018@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> <199804070045.KAA19819@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199804070045.KAA19819@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Tue, Apr 07, 1998 at 10:45:00AM +1000 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Apr 07, 1998 at 10:45:00AM +1000, John Birrell wrote: > dannyman wrote: > > W4R3Z !!! > > > > =) > > WTFDTM? (What the does that mean). W4R3Z is the W4R3Z D00D!!! way to spell 'warez' which means 'good stuff' though in the context of W4R3Z D00D!!! it means '1337 H4X0R3D commercial software. HTH :) -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 17:53:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13948 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:53:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13934 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id KAA19854; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:54:26 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804070054.KAA19854@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: I hope someone is following this up In-Reply-To: <19980406194627.58827@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> from dannyman at "Apr 6, 98 07:46:27 pm" To: dannyman@sasquatch.dannyland.org (dannyman) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:54:26 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG dannyman wrote: > W4R3Z is the W4R3Z D00D!!! way to spell 'warez' which means 'good stuff' > though in the context of W4R3Z D00D!!! it means '1337 H4X0R3D commercial > software. I must be getting old. It sounds like Linux-speak. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 17:58:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14825 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:58:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14817 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA28853; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:58:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980406195816.49014@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:58:16 -0500 From: dannyman To: John Birrell Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I hope someone is following this up Mail-Followup-To: John Birrell , hackers@freebsd.org References: <19980406194627.58827@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> <199804070054.KAA19854@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199804070054.KAA19854@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Tue, Apr 07, 1998 at 10:54:26AM +1000 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Apr 07, 1998 at 10:54:26AM +1000, John Birrell wrote: > dannyman wrote: > > W4R3Z is the W4R3Z D00D!!! way to spell 'warez' which means 'good stuff' > > though in the context of W4R3Z D00D!!! it means '1337 H4X0R3D commercial > > software. > > I must be getting old. It sounds like Linux-speak. heheheheheheheehe :) I think b1ff the W4R3Z D00D eventually matures into a linux hacker. then he's cool! -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 18:07:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16689 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:07:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamespot.com (ns2.gamespot.com [206.169.18.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16675 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:07:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ian@gamespot.com) Received: from localhost (ian@localhost) by gamespot.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA19400; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:06:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ian Kallen To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, postings@listfoundation.org Subject: (event 4/9) SF Bay Area FreeBSD User's Group Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The San Francisco Bay Area FreeBSD User's Group will convene on Thursday April 9th to discuss what's new with FreeBSD. You know that FreeBSD has the power to serve :) now take the time to meet others who know it too! Where: Silicon Reef 3057 17th Street (x Folsom & Harrison Streets) San Francisco When: Thursday April 9th, @ 7:30 pm Map: http://www.arachna.com/freebsd/reef_map.html See You There! -- Ian Kallen ian@gamespot.com Director of Technology and Web Administration GameSpot Incorporated http://www.gamespot.com/ http://www.videogames.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 18:13:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17743 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:13:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@spain-33.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17694 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA02927; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:12:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:12:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Luigi Rizzo cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-Reply-To: <199804060627.IAA01733@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > Hm... does anyone have a sense of what the lifetime of 2.2.x is? > > > I'm just thinking if it took someone half a year, and 2.2.x would be > > > dead in 9 months (e.g.), then it wouldn't really be that worthwhile. > > > > It's impossible to say for sure, given that such things are driven > > more by user demand than by any deliberate plan, but I suspect that we > > won't see 2.2.x run much longer than November 1998, after which it > > will go very much into legacy support mode. > > "legacy support mode" sounds as "dead" to me... the question is if > next stable release will be 3.0 (i.e. including SMP, as I understand > it) or something called 2.3 Yes, but look at how many 2.1.x and 2.0.x boxen are still out there. [...] - alex "We are upping our standards ... so up yours." - Pat Paulsen for US of A Prez, 1988. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 18:17:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18912 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:17:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@spain-33.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18848 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:17:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA02955; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:16:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:16:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: John Birrell cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I hope someone is following this up In-Reply-To: <199804070054.KAA19854@cimlogic.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, John Birrell wrote: > dannyman wrote: > > W4R3Z is the W4R3Z D00D!!! way to spell 'warez' which means 'good stuff' > > though in the context of W4R3Z D00D!!! it means '1337 H4X0R3D commercial > > software. > > I must be getting old. It sounds like Linux-speak. It is. - alex "We are upping our standards ... so up yours." - Pat Paulsen for US of A Prez, 1988. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 18:26:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20807 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:26:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20782 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-205.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.205]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA26152; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:26:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA02494; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:57:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804070057.TAA02494@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Wilko Bulte cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-reply-to: Message from Wilko Bulte of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 22:55:32 +0200." <199804052055.WAA29452@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 19:57:47 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wilko Bulte writes: > I've been asked for a summary, so here it is: > > - My question was specific to whether a Matrox Millenium II would be a good > choice for (stock) Xfree and whether it would run OK on a 75Mc PCI bus. > > The general opinion seems to be that a Matrox Millenium II is indeed a very > good card, and should run without problems on a 75Mc bus. Even 83Mc buses > seem to work OK. Whether stock Xfree is OK seems to be under debate. Both > claims that stock Xfree is OK and claims that you need Xaccel are present. Interesting summary, as I may shortly be in the market to replace my 2MB Mach32 card. Was surprised nobody quoted /usr/ports/benchmarks/xengine results. It may not be much of a benchmark but its something more than seat of the pants. I get between 750 and 1000 (peak) RPM, usually in the 800's with a 2MB PCI Mach32, 1024x768 16bpp with exmh also open. 64MB PPro-200/512k. About 1100 RPM on an 800x600 16bpp P-133 Mach64 machine at work. Both are running 2.2.5-stable and XFree86 3.3.1. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 19:02:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27065 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:02:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26952; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:01:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wsanchez@mail.apple.com) Received: from scv2.apple.com (A17-128-100-140.apple.com [17.128.100.140]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02532; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:55:47 -0700 Received: from [17.202.43.214] (elwood.apple.com [17.202.43.214]) by scv2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA07900; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:55:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199804070155.SAA07900@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Small Request Date: Mon, 6 Apr 98 17:55:52 -0800 x-sender: wsanchez@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Wilfredo Sanchez To: , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy again- I've gotten a lot of feedback from the FreeBSD community; that's appreciated. If you could, however, refrain from forwarding my email, or the gist thereof to people outside of the FreeBSD community (say, for example, MacOSRumors.com...), it would make this process, and my life, considerably easier. I think we've been good at making sure that once we ship a product, that it can be made clear that FreeBSD has been helpful to Apple, as appropriate, but letting people know that we might do something or other in the future is contrary to Apple interests, and may mean we bail out on that effort. My apologies for not considering that these are public lists, after all, but if we could just keep it in-house, that would be nice. In any case, I got a lot of encouragement, and that's a good thing. Thanks for the help, -Fred --- Wilfredo Sanchez - wsanchez@apple.com - 408.974-5174 Apple Computer, Inc. - Rhapsody Core Operating Systems Group 2 Infinite Loop, Mail Stop 302-4K, Cupertino, CA 95014 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 19:03:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27384 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:03:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27260 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:03:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04790 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <35298973.71FE7A49@san.rr.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 19:03:31 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Anyone testing BIND 8.1.2? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG First off, if there's a better list for this, feel free to send responses there and cc me. I am wondering if anyone from FreeBSD is involved in the testing of BIND 8.1.2. I don't imagine there will be a lot of problems, however it would be nice for example to have a correct definition for FreeBSD in the doc makefile. I would be happy to work with anyone interested, I run -Stable myself so a -Current volunteer would be the most desirable. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 19:40:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02674 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:40:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02452; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:36:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA00144; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:36:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980406213645.56989@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:36:45 -0500 From: dannyman To: Wilfredo Sanchez , freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-core@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Small Request Mail-Followup-To: Wilfredo Sanchez , freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-core@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199804070155.SAA07900@scv2.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804070155.SAA07900@scv2.apple.com>; from Wilfredo Sanchez on Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:55:52PM -0800 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:55:52PM -0800, Wilfredo Sanchez wrote: > Howdy again- > > I've gotten a lot of feedback from the FreeBSD community; that's > appreciated. > > If you could, however, refrain from forwarding my email, or the gist > thereof to people outside of the FreeBSD community (say, for example, > MacOSRumors.com...), it would make this process, and my life, > considerably easier. Wilfredo: The cat is out of the bag and screaming bloody murder. Go to www.dejanews.com and search for "Apple FreeBSD Wilfredo" :) -dan -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 19:56:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05394 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:56:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04761; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:54:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wsanchez@mail.apple.com) Received: from scv2.apple.com (A17-128-100-140.apple.com [17.128.100.140]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08754; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:42:59 -0700 Received: from [17.202.43.214] (elwood.apple.com [17.202.43.214]) by scv2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA16734; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:42:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199804070242.TAA16734@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Small Request Date: Mon, 6 Apr 98 18:43:04 -0800 x-sender: wsanchez@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Wilfredo Sanchez To: "dannyman" , , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Go to www.dejanews.com and search for "Apple FreeBSD Wilfredo" > :) Yeah, OK, it won't kill me. I'll just keep it in mind. Thanks. :-) -Fred --- Wilfredo Sanchez - wsanchez@apple.com - 408.974-5174 Apple Computer, Inc. - Rhapsody Core Operating Systems Group 2 Infinite Loop, Mail Stop 302-4K, Cupertino, CA 95014 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 20:04:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA07241 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06984; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:02:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA07314; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:02:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980406220209.58577@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:02:09 -0500 From: dannyman To: Wilfredo Sanchez , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-core@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Small Request Mail-Followup-To: Wilfredo Sanchez , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-core@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199804070242.TAA16734@scv2.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804070242.TAA16734@scv2.apple.com>; from Wilfredo Sanchez on Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 06:43:04PM -0800 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 06:43:04PM -0800, Wilfredo Sanchez wrote: > > Go to www.dejanews.com and search for "Apple FreeBSD Wilfredo" > > :) > > Yeah, OK, it won't kill me. I'll just keep it in mind. Thanks. :-) Good luck with Rhapsody, btw. You guys don't intend to make your source code public, are you? -dan -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 20:07:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08720 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:07:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08358 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:07:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA00397; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:06:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA04699; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:06:33 -0600 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:06:33 -0600 Message-Id: <199804070306.VAA04699@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: David Kelly Cc: Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804070057.TAA02494@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: <199804052055.WAA29452@yedi.iaf.nl> <199804070057.TAA02494@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > /usr/ports/benchmarks/xengine results. It may not be much of a > benchmark but its something more than seat of the pants. > > I get between 750 and 1000 (peak) RPM, usually in the 800's with a 2MB > PCI Mach32, 1024x768 16bpp with exmh also open. 64MB PPro-200/512k. > > About 1100 RPM on an 800x600 16bpp P-133 Mach64 machine at work. Display settings (size) didn't matter, but I'm getting ~650 rpm. on a 4MB Velocity 64B (S3 968) board running 24bit mode on an XIG 3.1 server. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 22:10:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19479 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:10:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mph124b.rh.psu.edu (MPH124B.rh.psu.edu [128.118.126.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19469 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:10:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@pobox.com) From: gsutter@pobox.com Received: from localhost (gsutter@localhost) by mph124b.rh.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA24388 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:10:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gsutter@pobox.com) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:10:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: gsutter@mph124b.rh.psu.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug In-Reply-To: <19980406143234.36976@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, dannyman wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 11:16:04AM -0400, James E. Housley wrote: >> > Did anyone else notice that the Sunday AM Daily and Security scripts >> > didn't run with the change of time to daylight savings? Is this a know > >One note I've seen is this isn't a cron bug, but stems from the fact that >on the day we switch to DST, there is no 0200h - it's really just an >oversight on the part of whoever it was that set the default here to 2AM. In the fall, do 0159h or 0200h crons run twice? >Me, my crons run at 0430h, for sentimental reasons. :) Mine run at 0420h, because I know I'll not be at the computer just then. GReg -- Gregory S. Sutter "How do I read this file?" mailto:gsutter@pobox.com "You uudecode it." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ "I I I decode it?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 22:26:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20993 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:26:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (slip-33.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20982; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:26:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id DAA01056; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:26:03 -0300 (ADT) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:26:03 -0300 (ADT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-Reply-To: <199804051545.JAA08664@narnia.plutotech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > >> Q. Will any of the following features ever be in 2.2.x, even as > >> 3rd party patches? > >> > >> A. 1. Soft Updates: No. > >> 2. CAM: No. > >> 3. SMP: No (you didn't ask, but I figured while I was making a list... :-) > > CAM: yes. Any ETA? 'm running at 10Mps right now, and its stable, but I'd like to get it pop'd up to 40 :) Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 22:38:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22710 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:38:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22697 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:38:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA03300; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma003298; Mon Apr 6 22:38:05 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA22606; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:38:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199804070538.WAA22606@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug In-Reply-To: from "gsutter@pobox.com" at "Apr 7, 98 01:10:19 am" To: gsutter@pobox.com Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG gsutter@pobox.com writes: > On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, dannyman wrote: > >> On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 11:16:04AM -0400, James E. Housley wrote: > >> > Did anyone else notice that the Sunday AM Daily and Security scripts > >> > didn't run with the change of time to daylight savings? Is this a know > > > >One note I've seen is this isn't a cron bug, but stems from the fact that > >on the day we switch to DST, there is no 0200h - it's really just an > >oversight on the part of whoever it was that set the default here to 2AM. > > In the fall, do 0159h or 0200h crons run twice? I think it only runs once. In other words, it can be designed to work "correctly" in the fall or in the spring, but not both. This is because "correct" is a matter of policy, not true correctness. Some cron entries are "meant" to run once every day (month, hour, whatever) e.g. /etc/daily. Others are meant to run once, at the specified time (e.g., on April 15, remind me that my taxes are due). Which behavior you choose makes one of these types work but not the other. I agree that /etc/daily and friends should be scheduled to run at some time other than between 2am and 3am. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 22:42:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23726 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:42:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA23721 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:42:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id AAA24021; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:42:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980407004210.08306@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:42:10 -0500 From: dannyman To: gsutter@pobox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug Mail-Followup-To: gsutter@pobox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980406143234.36976@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from gsutter@pobox.com on Tue, Apr 07, 1998 at 01:10:19AM -0400 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Apr 07, 1998 at 01:10:19AM -0400, gsutter@pobox.com wrote: > In the fall, do 0159h or 0200h crons run twice? No. cron seems particularly eccentric to the point of being rather clever, but not quite bright. :) > >Me, my crons run at 0430h, for sentimental reasons. :) > > Mine run at 0420h, because I know I'll not be at the computer just then. That's the sort of philosophy I used to use with my Amiga. Another strategy I found fruitless was "be in bed before cron runs" ... -dan -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 22:58:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25725 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:58:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25713 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:58:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA13073; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA07720; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3529C074.92AAB388@3skel.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:58:12 -0400 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dannyman CC: gsutter@pobox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug References: <19980406143234.36976@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> <19980407004210.08306@urh.uiuc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG dannyman wrote: > Another strategy I found fruitless was "be in bed before cron runs" ... > I too tried this, but it was a depressing point to cross in that somtimes panic moment when I was trying to get something done and turn off the monitor before I heard the crazed seeking of my disk drives. I have abandoned this strategy and really put my foot down on being in bed before I get hungry for another meal. ;) Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 23:16:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27893 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:16:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (antipodes.cdrom.com [204.216.27.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27865 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00734; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804070559.WAA00734@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Pete Carah cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DMI etc In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:00:50 PST." <199804010300.TAA28312@ns.altadena.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 22:59:25 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there any plan to support some of the environmental monitoring functions > in modern motherboards, like the power supply voltages and fan RPM? > (and cpu chip temperature, etc) Plans, sure. > (or are there specs that tell one where these show up, memory mapped > or I/O mapped, etc etc, and I could have a go at it.) The DMI taskforce (www.dmtf.org) publishes various standards describing this. There is code in -current to locate the DMI BIOS signature, but no more (yet). An enthusiastic DMI developer would be welcomed with open arms. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 23:16:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28003 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:16:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (antipodes.cdrom.com [204.216.27.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27954 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:16:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00658; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804070547.WAA00658@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: bzip2 - is it worth to take a look at? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 11:32:07 +0200." <199804050932.LAA10636@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 22:47:38 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > A new compression tool - bzip2 - is gaining popularity and I > want to put it to discussion whether it could be used to augment > the installation floppy towards even higher functionality like > containing more tools etc. etc. Bzip is an unattractive alternative to gzip for a number of reasons: - It's significantly slower in most cases. - It's a memory pig. - The only code for handling bzip-compressed data is bzip, which is GPL'd. - The author admits to uncertainty regarding the legal status of the code. > bzip2 compresses about 20 % better than gzip. > > Try it at: > > ftp://ftp.gimp.org/pub/apps/ Try /usr/ports/archivers/bzip2. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 23:20:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29262 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:20:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (antipodes.cdrom.com [204.216.27.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29246 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00381; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804070416.VAA00381@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: beekey@clark.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Laptop BIOS problems In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 19:23:59 EDT." <3528128F.4DEA@clark.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:16:35 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I just received a new Toshiba Tecra 750DVD laptop (BIOS 6.40) and am > attempting to install FreeBSD 2.2.5. Went through the standard FIPS > which worked fine. Went through the install process (many times) > booting from a 2.2.5 CD and from a bootable floppy. Install goes > without any glitches. > > However, whenever I report I get the following error: > > BIOS basemem (639K) != RTC basemem (640K), setting to BIOS value > > then the thing stops cold. At this point you either yank all power > sources or find the nearest paper clip for the reset button. > > After doing several unnatural things with fixit CD's and floppies and > building 2.2.5 kernels on another system and transferring them over, the > problems seems to lie somewhere in the function containing the BIOS > check in the file machdep.c (haven't stepped through each line of the > function). Sounds like you might have a memory-mapped peripheral. Is there an option in TSETUP to enable a "memory hole"? Do you have any CardBus cards inserted? The Tecra 750 is known to have problems with FreeBSD - until we can borrow one for a week or two, or arrange for one of the laptop developers to borrow one, or an enterprising hacker gets serious about it, we're stuck. If you need more help, and have a little time to keep doing what you've been doing so far, we would be *very* happy to answer your questions. > On other systems I get the RTC error, but the boot process continues > merrily along. The RTC error is more of a diagnostic, and isn't actually very useful anymore. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 23:23:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00335 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:23:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (antipodes.cdrom.com [204.216.27.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00248 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:22:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00237; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804070349.UAA00237@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Wilko Bulte cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 1998 22:55:32 +0200." <199804052055.WAA29452@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 20:49:04 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've been asked for a summary, so here it is: > > - My question was specific to whether a Matrox Millenium II would be a good > choice for (stock) Xfree and whether it would run OK on a 75Mc PCI bus. > > The general opinion seems to be that a Matrox Millenium II is indeed a very > good card, and should run without problems on a 75Mc bus. Even 83Mc buses > seem to work OK. Whether stock Xfree is OK seems to be under debate. Both > claims that stock Xfree is OK and claims that you need Xaccel are present. > > A trip to www.xfree86.org seems to indicate that the Xfree86 distribution > now supports the Millenium II. You want to take a close look on the RAMDAC > speed in case you want the highest resolutions and refresh rates (and you > probably do ;-) > > So, people sound pleased and I'll probably be getting in the near term. > > Wilko > > Snippets of received comments: > .... > Not unless you are willing to buy Xaccel. XFree86 doesn't support it > very well at all. Xaccel 4.01 is pretty good, modulo some > font-handling bugs. > .... This is my comment, I'll make it again. I have an MII, I have the latest XFree86, and Xaccel 4.01. Xaccel is sufficiently buggy that I have to use XFree occasionally (colour and font handling). I would not want to be using it on a regular basis (it reminds me of the old days with the S3 server in its infancy), however, as the XFree server has a number of extremely annoying and distracting cosmetic problems. If you can live with swarming ants, random pixel garbage and occasional snow, by all means go for it. Otherwise, hang back a few months and let the nice XFree MII hackers finish the job. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 23:38:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04123 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:38:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA04092 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:38:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 29118 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1998 06:47:30 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 7 Apr 1998 06:47:30 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-032998 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199804070559.WAA00734@antipodes.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 23:47:30 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: DMI etc Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Pete Carah Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 07-Apr-98 Mike Smith wrote: >> Is there any plan to support some of the environmental monitoring >> functions >> in modern motherboards, like the power supply voltages and fan RPM? >> (and cpu chip temperature, etc) > > Plans, sure. > >> (or are there specs that tell one where these show up, memory mapped >> or I/O mapped, etc etc, and I could have a go at it.) > > The DMI taskforce (www.dmtf.org) publishes various standards describing > this. There is code in -current to locate the DMI BIOS signature, but > no more (yet). > > An enthusiastic DMI developer would be welcomed with open arms. The new WDT driver, to be checked in RSN, includes all these functions. It uses the ICS WDT-501P and provides alarms and kernel ans/or user callbacks for Temperature, fan speed, high voltage and low voltage alarms, as well as a (8 bit) temperature reading. The callbacks are part of the High Availability Server functionality. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 6 23:42:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04584 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:42:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04577 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:42:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00866; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:41:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804070641.XAA00866@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mike Smith cc: Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Apr 1998 20:49:04 PDT." <199804070349.UAA00237@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 23:41:53 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I own a Matrox Millenium and is fast enough for me . It works and I can watch TV on it with fxtv using PCI to PCI transfer. Unless you are doing heavy cad usage or pumping thousands of polygons / sec must adapters now days are sufficient except the ones with DRAM . When I originally benchmarked my matrox millenium it clocked at 1.2 million xstones. Now days, I think in terms of added features for instance: 1. mpeg playback 2. 3d capabilities 3. sound 4. support for multiple cards (you can have two milleniums in a system) 5. builtin video out. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 00:24:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11277 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:24:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (antipodes.cdrom.com [204.216.27.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA11268 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:24:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01240; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804070722.AAA01240@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Pete Carah Subject: Re: DMI etc In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Apr 1998 23:47:30 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:22:24 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The DMI taskforce (www.dmtf.org) publishes various standards describing > > this. There is code in -current to locate the DMI BIOS signature, but > > no more (yet). > > > > An enthusiastic DMI developer would be welcomed with open arms. > > The new WDT driver, to be checked in RSN, includes all these functions. It > uses the ICS WDT-501P and provides alarms and kernel ans/or user callbacks > for Temperature, fan speed, high voltage and low voltage alarms, as well as > a (8 bit) temperature reading. Any particular reason that you went for a hardware-specific solution? Was the DMI BIOS support inadequate for your requirements? Should we pursue a different DMI framework? Enquiring minds wouldn't mind knowing. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 01:03:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14959 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:03:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14951 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:03:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA09225; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:03:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd009210; Tue Apr 7 01:03:27 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA25988; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:03:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804070803.BAA25988@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:03:22 +0000 (GMT) Cc: gsutter@pobox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804070538.WAA22606@bubba.whistle.com> from "Archie Cobbs" at Apr 6, 98 10:38:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think it only runs once. In other words, it can be designed > to work "correctly" in the fall or in the spring, but not both. > This is because "correct" is a matter of policy, not true > correctness. > > Some cron entries are "meant" to run once every day (month, > hour, whatever) e.g. /etc/daily. Others are meant to run once, > at the specified time (e.g., on April 15, remind me that my > taxes are due). Which behavior you choose makes one of these > types work but not the other. > > I agree that /etc/daily and friends should be scheduled to > run at some time other than between 2am and 3am. The typical way this is handled is to advance the clock through all intermediate jobs as if every second of the hour had actually taken place. This won't work if you have two jobs, one of which depends on the output of the other, but of course order dependencies on program executions are why Mr. Bourne invented shell scripts. 8-). I think you could advance the clock fairly easily, or chock the clock in the "fall back" case, by waking up frequently enough that an hour of drift is not a likely (or feasible) occurance. You save the clock each time you wake up, after comparing it. You would "see" the one hour change, and you would "drift through" intermediate times until the everything in the zone had been executed. For the "fall back", you put a chock (a wedge shaped piece of wood or other material to keep wheels from rolling) in the clock until the clock is greater than or equal to the saved clock. How does cron deal with time adjustments? If the answer is "not at all", that's rather piss-poor. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 02:39:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26102 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:39:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA26097 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:39:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07594; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:38:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <3529F3FD.EA4D2619@san.rr.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:38:05 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "James E. Housley" CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug References: <3528F1B4.7BE87776@pr-comm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG James E. Housley wrote: > > Did anyone else notice that the Sunday AM Daily and Security scripts > didn't run with the change of time to daylight savings? Is this a know > glitcht that only happens once a year and there for is not a big > problem? Before I forget, your .sig is way too long. Some would say that the traditional 4 lines is also too long, but most of the info in yours is better suited in a finger somewhere. That said, this is a known problem. I suggested a band-aid solution a while back, namely setting the daily script to run at 1:59 am. That would eliminate the problem for the vast majority of the western world minus a few european countries that do the change from 1 to 2 am or 1:30 to 2:30. At the time I was told that because there is no time to run the job that completely eliminates the possibility of conflict, no change would be made. Personally I think that kind of reasoning is nuts, but I don't get to make decisions around here. :) As others have already indicated, the simplest solution at this point is to reschedule the job locally. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 03:01:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28438 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:01:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA28433 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08149; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:01:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <3529F961.31919220@san.rr.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 03:01:05 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: Archie Cobbs , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug References: <199804070803.BAA25988@usr09.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > How does cron deal with time adjustments? Like so much else in the unix world, it expects the operator to be smarter than it is. :) There are a couple of us who are working on some proposals for Paul Vixie along the following lines. 15 2S * * * /job Would run the job in standard time all year round, ignoring DST 15 2U * * * /job Runs the job in UTC time. Without modification the job would happen or not happen the same way it does now. I would like to add a warning for the user if they schedule a job that happens during the magic hour. This would probably require a text file somewhere, probably in /var/cron. The implementation would be something like: 1. cron starts up, polls the system to determine the dates and hour of the DST change and compares the value in the file (if any) to the answer it received and writes it as necessary. 2. User foo edits their crontab file and adds a job that is scheduled during the magic hour. While crontab writes out the tab it checks for this condition and warns the user that they've scheduled a job during this time period and they gives them options, something like: Your job "15 2 * * * /usr/foo" is scheduled during the hour of the Daylight Savings Time transition in the Pacific time zone where this machine is located. If this might result in a scheduling problem please read the "Sceduling Options" section of the man page for crontab(5). 3. cron saves the fact that it's warned the user about this job to the file mentioned above, perhaps using an MD5 checksum of the job for security? 4. When user foo does subsequent updates to their crontab as long as they don't change that job they won't get warned about that job. Comments? Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 03:09:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA29558 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:09:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bsd.synx.com (rt.synx.com [194.167.81.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA29552 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:08:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from remy@synx.com) Received: from s3.synx.com (s3 [192.1.1.247]) by bsd.synx.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA21964; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:13:27 +0100 Received: from rs1 by s3.synx.com id aa19781; 7 Apr 98 11:58 BST Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:57:53 -0100 (GMT) From: Remy NONNENMACHER To: Mike Smith cc: Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804070349.UAA00237@antipodes.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >... > If you can live with swarming ants, random pixel garbage and occasional > snow, by all means go for it. Otherwise, hang back a few months and > let the nice XFree MII hackers finish the job. > Strange! You have problems i seen only on the first version of the old matrox with XIG 1.2. I use 2 matrox cards (1600x1200 and 1800x1400 Multi-headed) with Xig4 and have no problems !!. (cards; MII, 1AGP, 1PCI, all two 8Mb). Last time i checked, the Matrox support in XFree was not accelerated. Will it be for the MII ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 03:11:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00114 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:11:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newserv.urc.ac.ru (newserv.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA29904 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Received: from urc.ac.ru (y.RNOC-dialup.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.127]) by newserv.urc.ac.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09760 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:09:51 +0600 (ESS) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Message-ID: <3529FB3C.C2CE565E@urc.ac.ru> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 16:09:00 +0600 From: Konstantin Chuguev Organization: South Ural Regional Center of FREEnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [ru] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug References: <3528F1B4.7BE87776@pr-comm.com> <3529F3FD.EA4D2619@san.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Studded wrote: > > I suggested a band-aid solution a while back, namely setting the daily > script to run at 1:59 am. That would eliminate the problem for the vast > majority of the western world minus a few european countries that do the > change from 1 to 2 am or 1:30 to 2:30. At the time I was told that > because there is no time to run the job that completely eliminates the > possibility of conflict, no change would be made. Personally I think > that kind of reasoning is nuts, but I don't get to make decisions around > here. :) > > As others have already indicated, the simplest solution at this point > is to reschedule the job locally. > Would it be correct to ask user about a hour of Daylight Savings Time transition while installing the OS from the distribution? Somewhere near Timezone Settings... Then to set up the crontab properly. -- Konstantin V. Chuguev. System administrator of Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, Joy@urc.ac.ru Chelyabinsk, Russia. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 03:17:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01356 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:17:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA01314 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:17:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA04446 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:17:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:17:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "David E. Cross" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Apple and FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think we should all let this [mostly] drop so this fair gentleman can go about his buisness and produce a damn fine piece of software without having to spend his time answering us back all the time. I for one will take approach of being silent unless being spoken to. -- David Cross UNIX Systems Administrator GE Corporate R&D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 03:30:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA03218 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:30:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA03200 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:30:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA04515; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:30:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:30:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "David E. Cross" To: Studded cc: "James E. Housley" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug In-Reply-To: <3529F3FD.EA4D2619@san.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Studded wrote: > James E. Housley wrote: > I suggested a band-aid solution a while back, namely setting the daily > script to run at 1:59 am. That would eliminate the problem for the vast > majority of the western world minus a few european countries that do the > change from 1 to 2 am or 1:30 to 2:30. At the time I was told that > because there is no time to run the job that completely eliminates the > possibility of conflict, no change would be made. Personally I think > that kind of reasoning is nuts, but I don't get to make decisions around > here. :) I personally like the idea of having cron scripts run based on UTC... no need to worry about DST, just the occasionaly leap second to throw you off ;) -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 03:42:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA04299 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:42:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA04293 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:42:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14588; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:42:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804071042.DAA14588@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Remy NONNENMACHER cc: Mike Smith , Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:57:53 -0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 03:42:26 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Last time i checked, the Matrox support in XFree was not accelerated. It looks very accelerated here and if I am not mistaken it is one of the fastest cards which work with XFree86 . Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 04:18:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA09699 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 04:18:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from solaric.UkrCard.COM (ukrcard-gu.gu.net [194.93.170.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA09653 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 04:17:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@UkrCard.COM) Received: from localhost (alex@localhost) by solaric.UkrCard.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA24522; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:53:14 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from alex@solaric.UkrCard.COM) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:53:12 +0300 (EEST) From: Alexander Tatmaniants To: Konstantin Chuguev cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug In-Reply-To: <3529FB3C.C2CE565E@urc.ac.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Konstantin Chuguev wrote: > Studded wrote: > > > > I suggested a band-aid solution a while back, namely setting the daily > > script to run at 1:59 am. That would eliminate the problem for the vast > > majority of the western world minus a few european countries that do the > > change from 1 to 2 am or 1:30 to 2:30. At the time I was told that > > because there is no time to run the job that completely eliminates the > > possibility of conflict, no change would be made. Personally I think > > that kind of reasoning is nuts, but I don't get to make decisions around > > here. :) > > > > As others have already indicated, the simplest solution at this point > > is to reschedule the job locally. > > > Would it be correct to ask user about a hour of Daylight Savings Time > transition while installing the OS from the distribution? > Somewhere near Timezone Settings... Then to set up the crontab properly. Possibly cron would obtain this information from /etc/localtime at startup for example. > > -- > Konstantin V. Chuguev. System administrator of > Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, > Joy@urc.ac.ru Chelyabinsk, Russia. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 04:45:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA11613 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 04:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newserv.urc.ac.ru (newserv.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA11590 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 04:44:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Received: from urc.ac.ru (y.RNOC-dialup.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.127]) by newserv.urc.ac.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12922 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:42:17 +0600 (ESS) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Message-ID: <352A10E7.7DF57494@urc.ac.ru> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 17:41:27 +0600 From: Konstantin Chuguev Organization: South Ural Regional Center of FREEnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [ru] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: pkg_add from FTP repositary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All. I'm installing FreeBSD packages to my home computer from an FTP archive at my office. (It is faster to download binaries than to download and compile sources with my home processor and link speeds). I'm using a URL as a parameter for pkg_add. But then I cannot automatically install the packages which the first one depends on. PKG_PATH is used only for local files. Of course, it is correct, because searching files in FTP site is expensive. But could pkg_add have a last resort option for trying to get a package from some URL? For example, it could have a - option. If it has not found a package in PKG_PATH, it prepends a to the package name, and does the last try... Or an environment variable instead of an option. Comments? -- Konstantin V. Chuguev. System administrator of Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, Joy@urc.ac.ru Chelyabinsk, Russia. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 05:17:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14639 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:17:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA14630 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:17:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199804071216.IAA26990@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:17:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: David Kelly cc: Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804070057.TAA02494@nospam.hiwaay.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, David Kelly wrote: > Wilko Bulte writes: > > I've been asked for a summary, so here it is: > > > > - My question was specific to whether a Matrox Millenium II would be a good > > choice for (stock) Xfree and whether it would run OK on a 75Mc PCI bus. > > > > The general opinion seems to be that a Matrox Millenium II is indeed a very > > good card, and should run without problems on a 75Mc bus. Even 83Mc buses > > seem to work OK. Whether stock Xfree is OK seems to be under debate. Both > > claims that stock Xfree is OK and claims that you need Xaccel are present. > > Interesting summary, as I may shortly be in the market to replace > my 2MB Mach32 card. Was surprised nobody quoted > /usr/ports/benchmarks/xengine results. It may not be much of a > benchmark but its something more than seat of the pants. > > I get between 750 and 1000 (peak) RPM, usually in the 800's with a 2MB > PCI Mach32, 1024x768 16bpp with exmh also open. 64MB PPro-200/512k. > > About 1100 RPM on an 800x600 16bpp P-133 Mach64 machine at work. > > Both are running 2.2.5-stable and XFree86 3.3.1. Where can xengine be found? I will run it on my machine and post results. -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 05:18:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14882 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:18:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [192.86.155.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14876 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:18:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from MOLAGAPP.IN.oracle.com.ofcmail@in.oracle.com) Received: from dwarpal.in.oracle.com (dwarpal.in.oracle.com [152.69.176.11]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA25374 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dwarpal.in.oracle.com (8.6.13/37.8) id GAA01471; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:51:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199804071151.GAA01471@dwarpal.in.oracle.com> Date: 07 Apr 98 15:36:39 +0330 From: "Muthu" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Any print server available on freebsd? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.0.5.1.55) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, This may be simple question. Is there any print server available on freebsd which can contact with printer in the network?. Basically in my environment, the printer is given a ip address. I want a daemon running on freebsd (server) which Q's the print requests from all the client machines and send it to the printer. The client can run lpd with /etc/printcap configured as the server ip. Regards, Muthu. O.L. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 05:26:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16215 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:26:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de [194.233.237.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA16210 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:26:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cracauer@gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA28275; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:26:58 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980407142658.60535@cons.org> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:26:58 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: Rob Maher , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux TCP/IP Stacks Mail-Followup-To: Rob Maher , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <3524DF82.51F041C8@istar.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <3524DF82.51F041C8@istar.ca>; from Rob Maher on Fri, Apr 03, 1998 at 01:09:22PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In <3524DF82.51F041C8@istar.ca>, Rob Maher wrote: > I am preparing a report for a study of the differences between the > FreeBSD and Linux TCP/IP stacks, with respect to which implementation > is more efficient and robust. > > I was wondering if someone may be able to provide me with some > information on any major differences between the two stacks which > may make one stack seem 'better' than the other at handling > large loads of users. With all respect, but I doubt you should write such a report if you have to ask. At the very least you should be able to digg around in the Linux kernel and tell what is derived from BSD and what is home-grown (that requires that Linux'ers didn't though out the original copyright, of course...). But even then, how to judge what differences cause "better" handling of many users? For every difference between the systems, you probably find more than one person from each camp who argues that this change or its absense handles more load, if more efficient or more robust. I see two ways you can proceed: 1) Describe the differences without judging over the effects of the differences. Probably not what magazine editors want. 2) Look around for large machines and ask the administrators about their impressions. Order by number of simulaneous users. cdrom.com is FreeBSD' flagship, see the notes on their site and check the FreeBSD mailing list archives. Good luck, but please don't add to my dislike about journalists. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany http://www.bsdhh.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 07:13:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00329 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:13:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA00312 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:12:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 24912 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1998 14:22:25 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 7 Apr 1998 14:22:25 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-032998 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199804070722.AAA01240@antipodes.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 07:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: DMI etc Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Pete Carah Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 07-Apr-98 Mike Smith wrote: >> > The DMI taskforce (www.dmtf.org) publishes various standards >> > describing >> > this. There is code in -current to locate the DMI BIOS signature, but >> > no more (yet). >> > >> > An enthusiastic DMI developer would be welcomed with open arms. >> >> The new WDT driver, to be checked in RSN, includes all these functions. >> It >> uses the ICS WDT-501P and provides alarms and kernel ans/or user >> callbacks >> for Temperature, fan speed, high voltage and low voltage alarms, as well >> as >> a (8 bit) temperature reading. > > Any particular reason that you went for a hardware-specific solution? > Was the DMI BIOS support inadequate for your requirements? Should we > pursue a different DMI framework? > > Enquiring minds wouldn't mind knowing. 8) * The card has all the hardware on it and thus independant of any underlying hardware. All you need is an ISA slot on any computer. * Rather inexpensive too. * If you want, I'll add DMI compatability to the driver. Or you can add it too :-) * I wrote the driver before knowing what DMI is. * BIOS independant. Simon ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 07:22:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01457 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:22:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from schubert.promo.de (schubert.Promo.DE [194.45.188.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01380 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:22:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan@promo.de) Received: from stefan.promo.de (stefan.Promo.DE [194.45.188.81]) by schubert.promo.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA00144; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:19:04 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 16:21:22 +0200 From: "Stefan Bethke" To: Muthu cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any print server available on freebsd? Message-ID: <1256666.3100954882@stefan.promo.de> X-Mailer: Mulberry Demo (MacOS) [1.3.2, s/n Evaluation] X-Licensed-To: Unlicensed - for evaluation only MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --On Die, 7. Apr 1998 15:36 Uhr +0330 Muthu wrote: > This may be simple question. Is there any print server available on freebsd > which can contact with printer in the network?. Basically in my environment, > the printer is given a ip address. I want a daemon running on freebsd (server) > which Q's the print requests from all the client machines and send it to the > printer. The client can run lpd with /etc/printcap configured as the server ip. What exactly, then, do you mean by "print server"? FreeBSD already includes lpd, which is both capable of both receiving and sending jobs via remote LPR. "man lpd" will tell you more. On the other hand, if your pinter is already connected to a network, and it doesn't speak rLPR, look at /usr/ports/net/samba and /usr/ports/net/netatalk for alternative protocols for sending and receiving print jobs. Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Promo Datentechnik | Tel. +49-40-851744-18 + Systemberatung GmbH | Fax. +49-40-851744-44 Eduardstrasse 46-48 | e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE D-20257 Hamburg | http://www.Promo.DE/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 07:52:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04643 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:52:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA04638 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:52:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id HAA06564 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006560; Tue Apr 7 07:51:32 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA27309 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:51:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:51:32 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804071451.HAA27309@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 03:01:05 -0700 >From: Studded >....There are a couple of us who are working on some >proposals for Paul Vixie along the following lines. >15 2S * * * /job > Would run the job in standard time all year round, ignoring DST >15 2U * * * /job > Runs the job in UTC time. > Without modification the job would happen or not happen the same way it >does now. Although it's a tad more verbose, my inclination would be to accomplish a similar objective by specifying a (complete) time zone designation (if this behavior is wanted -- of course, if it's not specified, the scheduling is for "local time"). Among other things, that would permit scheduling something for a certain time in (say) the MET time zone on a machine that happens to live in the US/Pacific (or US/Arizona!) time zone. I can imagine circumstances where that might be of value. However, the ability to always use "standard" (or "daylight savings") time for a given crontab entry would also be of value. >I would like to add a warning for the user if they schedule a >job that happens during the magic hour.... Yes, I think that would be a Good Thing. >3. cron saves the fact that it's warned the user about this job to the >file mentioned above, perhaps using an MD5 checksum of the job for >security? Not sure this is needed. Someone goes back into the crontab, if there's something in there worthy of note, crontab should probably mention it. It's not unheard of for an SA to set things up a certain way, then go on to a different position, and for the original SA's successor to have a bit to clean up.... :-) Maybe there could be an environment variable to tell crontab that the person in question doesn't want to hear its nattering.... You asked for comments...., david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 07:54:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04955 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:54:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA04945 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:54:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id HAA06584 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006580; Tue Apr 7 07:53:46 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA27331 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804071453.HAA27331@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >From: Archie Cobbs >Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:38:05 -0700 (PDT) >Some cron entries are "meant" to run once every day (month, >hour, whatever) e.g. /etc/daily. Others are meant to run once, >at the specified time (e.g., on April 15, remind me that my >taxes are due). Which behavior you choose makes one of these >types work but not the other. Yes (though the example is more suited to calendar than cron -- but then, calendar is run by cron...). >I agree that /etc/daily and friends should be scheduled to >run at some time other than between 2am and 3am. Quite. david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 08:27:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09092 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:27:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09077 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:27:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA28015; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:29:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Studded cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone testing BIND 8.1.2? In-Reply-To: <35298973.71FE7A49@san.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Studded wrote: > First off, if there's a better list for this, feel free to send > responses there and cc me. I am wondering if anyone from FreeBSD is > involved in the testing of BIND 8.1.2. I don't imagine there will be a > lot of problems, however it would be nice for example to have a correct > definition for FreeBSD in the doc makefile. I would be happy to work > with anyone interested, I run -Stable myself so a -Current volunteer > would be the most desirable. Well, this is not quite the same, but the DNSsec beta based on BIND8 from TIS builds cleanly under FreeBSD, which was one of the primary testing environments for it. :) I'm running it on one of my 2.2-STABLE test servers. I also know that Vixies uses BSD/OS for a lot of stuff, so I assume it will build cleanly on that, and it's not such a leap to have it build under FreeBSD based on that. Robert N Watson ---- Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ Trusted Information Systems http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 09:33:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15798 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:33:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15786 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:33:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA04943; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:32:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA06235; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:32:52 -0600 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:32:52 -0600 Message-Id: <199804071632.KAA06235@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Remy NONNENMACHER Cc: Mike Smith , Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: References: <199804070349.UAA00237@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > If you can live with swarming ants, random pixel garbage and occasional > > snow, by all means go for it. Otherwise, hang back a few months and > > let the nice XFree MII hackers finish the job. > > Strange! You have problems i seen only on the first version of the old > matrox with XIG 1.2. I see problems as well with both XIG/XFree86 on my MII, so he's not alone. > I use 2 matrox cards (1600x1200 and 1800x1400 Multi-headed) with Xig4 and > have no problems !!. (cards; MII, 1AGP, 1PCI, all two 8Mb). Have you tried using 'visuals' on XIG? Also, I haven't tried the latest XFree86, but I used the SuSE server, which worked but had some (minor) screen corruption problem. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 10:00:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20135 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:00:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20080 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:00:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00365; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804071657.JAA00365@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: David Kelly cc: Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Apr 1998 19:57:47 CDT." <199804070057.TAA02494@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:57:00 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Wilko Bulte writes: > Interesting summary, as I may shortly be in the market to replace > my 2MB Mach32 card. Was surprised nobody quoted > /usr/ports/benchmarks/xengine results. It may not be much of a > benchmark but its something more than seat of the pants. OK, people asked for it. 8) > I get between 750 and 1000 (peak) RPM, usually in the 800's with a 2MB > PCI Mach32, 1024x768 16bpp with exmh also open. 64MB PPro-200/512k. > > About 1100 RPM on an 800x600 16bpp P-133 Mach64 machine at work. Under 3.0 as of early March, 337MHz PII on a 75MHz bus, talking to a 4M Matrox Millenium II. XFree86 3.3.2, 1024x768x32bpp - 790rpm (constant) XFree86 3.3.2, 1280x1024x24bpp - 845rpm (constant, screen corrupt) XFree86 3.3.2, 1600x1200x16bpp - 1200rpm (constant) XFree86 3.3.2, 1600x1200x 8bpp - 2780rpm (constant) Xaccel 4.01, 1280x1024x24bpp - 970rpm (constant) Xaccel 4.01, 1600x1200x16bpp - 1480rpm (constant) Xaccel 4.01, 1600x1200x 8bpp - 6105rpm (constant, screen corrupt) Performance isn't (to me) so much an issue as the server working. Right now, neither work properly. The Xig server works better for me than the XFree server, in that it's hard to use the system when there's noise all over your windows. YMMV. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 10:30:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24679 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:30:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (gxrMugbIyoMRc+GV+vLXMzVF7S2+I1xo@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24665 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19216; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:29:38 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dap) From: Damon Permezel Message-Id: <199804071729.MAA19216@damon.com> Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804071657.JAA00365@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 7, 98 09:57:00 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:29:37 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Mike Smith sez: " > > Wilko Bulte writes: > > I get between 750 and 1000 (peak) RPM, usually in the 800's with a 2MB > > PCI Mach32, 1024x768 16bpp with exmh also open. 64MB PPro-200/512k. > > > > About 1100 RPM on an 800x600 16bpp P-133 Mach64 machine at work. > > Under 3.0 as of early March, 337MHz PII on a 75MHz bus, talking to a > 4M Matrox Millenium II. > > XFree86 3.3.2, 1024x768x32bpp - 790rpm (constant) > XFree86 3.3.2, 1280x1024x24bpp - 845rpm (constant, screen corrupt) > XFree86 3.3.2, 1600x1200x16bpp - 1200rpm (constant) > XFree86 3.3.2, 1600x1200x 8bpp - 2780rpm (constant) > > Xaccel 4.01, 1280x1024x24bpp - 970rpm (constant) > Xaccel 4.01, 1600x1200x16bpp - 1480rpm (constant) > Xaccel 4.01, 1600x1200x 8bpp - 6105rpm (constant, screen corrupt) Running on 2xPII 233MHz: I recently got a LeadTek L2300 8Meg AGP Permedia2 based 3D accelerator. On Xaccel 4.01, 1280x1024x32 - 1860rpm. No screen problems. No XFree86 Permedia2 support I know of, but if I can get the necessary info... I should divide this by 1 < N < 2. When (re)drawing, both CPUs can get into the act (pumping data thru the UnixDomain socket, for example), although the XSync() wrapping the draw operations will cut down on the available parallelism. How about, if there is really interest in this sort of thing, someone volunteers to collect everyones xengine scores (define some standard template format) and then post a summary in a few weeks? I hereby *DO NOT* volunteer to do this. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 10:35:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25695 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:35:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25610 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:35:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA02016 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:34:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:34:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804071729.MAA19216@damon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please, please, puh-leeze take this thread to -chat or something. Hearing about everyone's worldstone results was bad enough, if I have to wade through everyone's xengine output I think I'm gonna scream. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 10:49:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29445 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:49:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (dkelly@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29320 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:49:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@fly.HiWAAY.net) Received: (from dkelly@localhost) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA31884; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:49:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:49:07 -0500 (CDT) From: David Kelly Message-Id: <199804071749.MAA31884@fly.HiWAAY.net> To: dkelly@hiwaay.net, jamie@itribe.net Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jamie Bowden writes: > > > > Interesting summary, as I may shortly be in the market to replace > > my 2MB Mach32 card. Was surprised nobody quoted > > /usr/ports/benchmarks/xengine results. It may not be much of a > > benchmark but its something more than seat of the pants. [snip] > > Where can xengine be found? I will run it on my machine and post results. /usr/ports/benchmarks/xengine -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net (hm) ====================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 10:52:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00589 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:52:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from marcos.networkcs.com (marcos.networkcs.com [137.66.16.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00449 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:51:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jpt@us.networkcs.com) Received: from us.networkcs.com (us.networkcs.com [137.66.11.15]) by marcos.networkcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01405; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:51:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jpt@localhost) by us.networkcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA04881; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:51:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Joseph Thomas Message-Id: <199804071751.MAA04881@us.networkcs.com> Subject: Permedia 2 XFree support (was Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter) In-Reply-To: <199804071729.MAA19216@damon.com> from Damon Permezel at "Apr 7, 98 12:29:37 pm" To: dap@damon.com (Damon Permezel) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:51:43 -0500 (CDT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, dkelly@hiwaay.net, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Running on 2xPII 233MHz: > I recently got a LeadTek L2300 8Meg AGP Permedia2 based 3D accelerator. > On Xaccel 4.01, 1280x1024x32 - 1860rpm. No screen problems. > No XFree86 Permedia2 support I know of, but if I can get the necessary info... > The S.u.S.E. group has released a binary XFree server based on their Linux code for the Permedia 2 chipset. Checkout http://www.suse.de/XSuSE/XSuSE_E.html (english version) bottom of the page under 'Other Operating Systems' has the link for the FreeBSD version. -- Joseph Thomas E/Mail: jpt@networkcs.com Network Computing Services, Inc. jpt@magic.net 1200 Washington Ave So. Tel: +1 612 337 3558 Minneapolis, MN 55415-1227 FAX: +1 612 337 3400 An elephant is a mouse with an operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 11:31:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09655 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:31:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09644 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:31:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01403; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:31:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd001352; Tue Apr 7 11:31:06 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA08194; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:31:02 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804071831.LAA08194@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug To: Studded@san.rr.com (Studded) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:31:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, archie@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3529F961.31919220@san.rr.com> from "Studded" at Apr 7, 98 03:01:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Like so much else in the unix world, it expects the operator to be > smarter than it is. :) There are a couple of us who are working on some > proposals for Paul Vixie along the following lines. > > 15 2S * * * /job > Would run the job in standard time all year round, ignoring DST > 15 2U * * * /job > Runs the job in UTC time. [ ... ] > Comments? I think people put cron jobs at the times they do for two reasons: 1) They want the job to run when it is unlikely to impact users 2) The want the job to run so that it's done before some set time based on an estimation of how long the run will be. Neither of these are really served by the proposed changes. On the other hand, if you were to "instantaneously" advance the clock through the hour, and were to hold the clock for one hour through the overlap, you would address these. For things that run on one hour (or less) intervals, they would ignore the change (effectively, your UTC option). The remaining problem is order of operation of connected tasks, and implying the connectivity by order of scheduling in cron. This is a programming error; it's a job for a shell script, not two or more cron entries. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 11:35:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:35:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10646 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:35:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10354; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:34:43 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199804071834.UAA10354@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804071657.JAA00365@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 7, 98 09:57:00 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:34:43 +0200 (MEST) Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > Under 3.0 as of early March, 337MHz PII on a 75MHz bus, talking to a > 4M Matrox Millenium II. > > XFree86 3.3.2, 1024x768x32bpp - 790rpm (constant) > XFree86 3.3.2, 1280x1024x24bpp - 845rpm (constant, screen corrupt) > XFree86 3.3.2, 1600x1200x16bpp - 1200rpm (constant) > XFree86 3.3.2, 1600x1200x 8bpp - 2780rpm (constant) > > Xaccel 4.01, 1280x1024x24bpp - 970rpm (constant) > Xaccel 4.01, 1600x1200x16bpp - 1480rpm (constant) > Xaccel 4.01, 1600x1200x 8bpp - 6105rpm (constant, screen corrupt) Just a low end mark: 3.0 23March 2x200Mhz P6 66Mhz bus NoName S3Virge/DX(4MB EDO RAM) XFree86-SVGA 3.3.2 1152x900x24bpp - 732rpm (constant) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 12:04:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16901 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:04:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA16887 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:04:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA08613 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:04:34 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA03889; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:11:56 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199804071811.UAA03889@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804070349.UAA00237@antipodes.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 6, 98 08:49:04 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:11:55 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Mike Smith wrote... > > I've been asked for a summary, so here it is: [snip] > > So, people sound pleased and I'll probably be getting in the near term. Make this: _most_ people are pleased (Mike obviously is not) > > Snippets of received comments: > > .... > > Not unless you are willing to buy Xaccel. XFree86 doesn't support it > > very well at all. Xaccel 4.01 is pretty good, modulo some > > font-handling bugs. > > .... > > This is my comment, I'll make it again. I have an MII, I have the > latest XFree86, and Xaccel 4.01. Xaccel is sufficiently buggy that I > have to use XFree occasionally (colour and font handling). I would > not want to be using it on a regular basis (it reminds me of the old > days with the S3 server in its infancy), however, as the XFree server > has a number of extremely annoying and distracting cosmetic problems. > > If you can live with swarming ants, random pixel garbage and occasional > snow, by all means go for it. Otherwise, hang back a few months and > let the nice XFree MII hackers finish the job. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but in re-reading your original comment I get the impression that you are quite a bit more distressed in your followup comment than in the original one. Sorry if you feel mis-interpreted.. But for some reason the majority of the people don't have problems ?? Don't ask me why. NB I also found: http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/~ajv/xf86-matrox.html when looking for Matrox info. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl __________________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD ______ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 12:07:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17808 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:07:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tornado.cisco.com (tornado.cisco.com [171.69.104.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17784 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:07:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (bmcgover-pc.cisco.com [171.69.104.147]) by tornado.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA03304 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14630 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:06:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Message-Id: <199804071906.PAA14630@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: mcgovern@spoon.beta.com Subject: PortalFS w/tcp... Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 15:06:39 -0400 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am wondering if anyone has been using the portalFS code at all. I'm trying to make it work with TCP connections, and it keeps failing. After much code chasing, I found that it was failing in activate.c of mount_portal, in the function send_reply. Specifically, the sendmsg() call near the end of the function generates an error code (n = -1, errno = 22) of EINVAL (invalid arguement). I guess I'm curious to find out if the problem is due to code stagnation, a known problem elsewhere, or whether I'm just unlucky, or have a bad configuration for it. I'd eventually like to work to fix it, so if you can provide any information, I'd greatly appreciate it. -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 12:29:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21542 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:29:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21431; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:28:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18785; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:28:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804071928.MAA18785@rah.star-gate.com> To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), dkelly@hiwaay.net, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Apr 1998 20:34:43 +0200." <199804071834.UAA10354@sos.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <18782.891977280.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:28:00 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I hope that you have loaded the fastvid module to enable write combining to your card . Write combining can quadruple your thruput to your PCI linearly mapped frame buffer. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 12:33:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22309 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:33:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from schubert.promo.de (schubert.Promo.DE [194.45.188.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22269 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:32:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan@promo.de) Received: from stefan.promo.de (stefan.Promo.DE [194.45.188.81]) by schubert.promo.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA01205; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:28:50 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 21:31:07 +0200 From: "Stefan Bethke" To: "Terry Lambert" cc: Studded , archie@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time - bug Message-ID: <61675.3100973467@stefan.promo.de> X-Mailer: Mulberry Demo (MacOS) [1.3.2, s/n Evaluation] X-Licensed-To: Unlicensed - for evaluation only MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --On Die, 7. Apr 1998 18:31 Uhr +0000 "Terry Lambert" wrote: >> 15 2S * * * /job >> Would run the job in standard time all year round, ignoring DST >> 15 2U * * * /job >> Runs the job in UTC time. > >> Comments? > > I think people put cron jobs at the times they do for two reasons: > > 1) They want the job to run when it is unlikely to impact > users > > 2) The want the job to run so that it's done before some set > time based on an estimation of how long the run will be. 3) They want a job to be run at a predetermined time which is externally specified and doesn't relate to local time, but UTC (or another local time, for that matter). > Neither of these are really served by the proposed changes. I perfectly agree that being able to specify the time zone of the time isn't the solution to the DST switching problem, but nonetheless important, imo. As a practical example: I want to mirror some larger MPEG weather satellite movies from a specific FTP server. They are released on a time specified in UTC (they really are, I checked). If it weren't for my pleasure only, I'd want to make sure I try to fetch them at the exact time, and not one hour late. I probably would opt for being able to specify a time zone completely in the syntax,adding an optional field, or making cron obey TZ= in the cron table. Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Promo Datentechnik | Tel. +49-40-851744-18 + Systemberatung GmbH | Fax. +49-40-851744-44 Eduardstrasse 46-48 | e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE D-20257 Hamburg | http://www.Promo.DE/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 12:46:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24778 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:46:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA24523; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:45:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10492; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:45:29 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199804071945.VAA10492@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804071928.MAA18785@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 7, 98 12:28:00 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:45:29 +0200 (MEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, dkelly@hiwaay.net, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Amancio Hasty who wrote: > I hope that you have loaded the fastvid module to enable write combining > to your card . No I have not. > Write combining can quadruple your thruput to your PCI linearly mapped > frame buffer. Interesting, endeed, how do I go about to load that ?? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 13:25:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04000 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:25:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03540; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:23:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19001; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:23:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804072023.NAA19001@rah.star-gate.com> To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), mike@smith.net.au, dkelly@hiwaay.net, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Apr 1998 21:45:29 +0200." <199804071945.VAA10492@sos.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <18998.891980593.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 13:23:13 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I can't chat with you guys right now cause I am at work . There is an old version in my ftp site: ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/fastvid.tar.gz The module still needs minor tweaking to be user friendly however the README has the author's email 8) Have Fun Guys, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 13:49:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11829 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:49:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11663; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:48:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA10860; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:47:45 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199804072047.WAA10860@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804072023.NAA19001@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 7, 98 01:23:13 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:47:45 +0200 (MEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, mike@smith.net.au, dkelly@hiwaay.net, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Amancio Hasty who wrote: OK with fastvid I get this: 3.0 23March 2x200Mhz P6 66Mhz bus NoName S3Virge/DX(4MB EDO RAM) XFree86-SVGA 3.3.2 1152x900x24bpp - 810-920rpm (varying) 25% increase in rpm, well not bad for a simple program :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 14:05:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16046 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:05:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (host77-61.airnet.net [209.64.77.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15984 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:05:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@ninbox.ml.org) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13626; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:03:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <352A94B5.154AD372@ninbox.ml.org> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 16:03:49 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: Mike Smith , Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter References: <199804070641.XAA00866@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > 4. support for multiple cards (you can have two milleniums in a system) Come on, let's see that working under FreeBSD. A PC with two monitors? At least we'd be gaining on the Macs. -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 14:22:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19184 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:22:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA19043 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 14017 invoked by uid 1017); 7 Apr 1998 20:20:17 -0000 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:20:17 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: kris@airnet.net cc: Amancio Hasty , Mike Smith , Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <352A94B5.154AD372@ninbox.ml.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Multihead Server from XI Graphics already does this. You can have one screen an 8-bit cirrus logic and the other a 24-bit Millenium II. Pretty cool... You can buy it from www.atipa.com. :) Kevin On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Kris Kirby wrote: > Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > 4. support for multiple cards (you can have two milleniums in a system) > > Come on, let's see that working under FreeBSD. A PC with two monitors? > At least we'd be gaining on the Macs. > -- > > Kris Kirby > ------------------------------------------- > TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 14:42:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24416 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:42:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24390 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:42:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19308; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:42:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804072142.OAA19308@rah.star-gate.com> To: kris@airnet.net cc: Amancio Hasty , Mike Smith , Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD hackers list , hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Apr 1998 16:03:49 CDT." <352A94B5.154AD372@ninbox.ml.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <19305.891985337.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:42:17 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry , I am out of the X server development and yes it is possible and a few who have Xig dual headed servers are using two monitors with the PCs. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 14:52:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27137 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:52:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA26992 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:51:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA17629 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:51:45 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA04796; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:14:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199804071914.VAA04796@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: from Snob Art Genre at "Apr 7, 98 01:34:53 pm" To: benedict@echonyc.com (Snob Art Genre) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:14:35 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Snob Art Genre wrote... > Please, please, puh-leeze take this thread to -chat or something. > Hearing about everyone's worldstone results was bad enough, if I have to > wade through everyone's xengine output I think I'm gonna scream. Like 'there is no substitute for lots of WRAM' ? ;-) I seem to have started quite a discussion. For me the input on what people's experiences are (working, non working etc) are important. Especially the 'non working' cases need attention. So, thanks for all responses. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl __________________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD ______ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 14:52:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27167 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:52:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA27044 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:52:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA17622 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:51:44 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA04766; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:10:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199804071910.VAA04766@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804071657.JAA00365@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 7, 98 09:57:00 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:10:06 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Mike Smith wrote... > > Wilko Bulte writes: Not really me, but interesting info all the same. > > Interesting summary, as I may shortly be in the market to replace > > my 2MB Mach32 card. Was surprised nobody quoted > > /usr/ports/benchmarks/xengine results. It may not be much of a > > benchmark but its something more than seat of the pants. > > OK, people asked for it. 8) > > > I get between 750 and 1000 (peak) RPM, usually in the 800's with a 2MB > > PCI Mach32, 1024x768 16bpp with exmh also open. 64MB PPro-200/512k. [snip] _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl __________________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD ______ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 15:20:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05129 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:20:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp7248.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.216]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05122 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA00343; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:18:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:18:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Konstantin Chuguev cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pkg_add from FTP repositary In-Reply-To: <352A10E7.7DF57494@urc.ac.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Konstantin Chuguev wrote: > I'm using a URL as a parameter for pkg_add. But then I cannot > automatically install the packages which the first one depends on. > PKG_PATH is used only for local files. Of course, it is correct, because > searching files in FTP site is expensive. Have you actually tried this? pkg_add(1) is supposed to be able to automatically fetch dependencies over FTP based on the original URL you pass it. I think you need to have all of the packages in the same directory, though. -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 15:42:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08589 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:42:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08540 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:41:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01290 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804072239.PAA01290@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Pax weirdness (bug?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 15:39:26 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Try this: % cat /cdrom/info/info.* | zcat | pax -r -w -v tmpdir Be quick with ^C. Any ideas? Known bogon? Fixes? (Nothing intuitive, anyway.) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 15:51:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11175 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:51:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gnyf.t.dk (root@gnyf.t.dk [193.163.159.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11059 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:50:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@t.dk) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by gnyf.t.dk (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.Beta3) with SMTP id AAA06685 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:50:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:50:14 +0200 (CEST) From: "Soren S. Jorvang" To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804071811.UAA03889@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Wilko Bulte wrote: > As Mike Smith wrote... > > > I've been asked for a summary, so here it is: > > [snip] > > > > So, people sound pleased and I'll probably be getting in the near term. > > Make this: _most_ people are pleased (Mike obviously is not) [...] > But for some reason the majority of the people don't have problems ?? > Don't ask me why. [Matrox Millenium stability] If you want to be "sure" that the Matrox Millenium you buy works with XFree86, get the original ('I') PCI model with an 2**n amount of memory. They aren't all that much slower than the {'II', AGP} counterparts, so it is no great loss if you choose certainty in this way. -- Soren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 16:11:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15265 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:11:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hoser (root@in221.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA15204 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:10:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cradek@in221.inetnebr.com) Message-Id: To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Accton EtherPocket device driver porting help Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 18:10:13 -0500 From: Chris Radek Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all! I am wanting to port the Linux driver for the Accton EtherPocket parallel port ethernet device to FreeBSD. I am having trouble finding a starting point - the FreeBSD Device Driver Writer's Guide looks great for character devices, but is unhelpful (empty!) for network devices. So I have two questions: Is there work in progress for supporting this, or any other, parallel port ethernet device? If not, where does a person begin when porting a network driver? I am not allergic to digging through existing code, but a summary of the necessary parts would be very helpful. Perhaps something like Linux's skeleton.c? Thanks and regards, -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 16:21:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16963 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:21:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16955 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:21:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19644; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:21:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804072321.QAA19644@rah.star-gate.com> To: Wilko Bulte cc: benedict@echonyc.com (Snob Art Genre), FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Apr 1998 21:14:35 +0200." <199804071914.VAA04796@yedi.iaf.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <19641.891991296.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 16:21:36 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually, I am pleasantly surprised at the interest . For a while, I was tempted to start redirecting the discussion to comp.windows.x.i386unix , then I said : "Nah , just keep quiet who knows a strong X or multimedia hacker may come out this discussion" 8) Have Fun Guys and Yes enjoy your systems 8) Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 16:35:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18999 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:35:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rrz.Hanse.DE (rrz.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18978 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:35:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stb@transit.hanse.de) Received: from daemon.Hanse.DE (daemon.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.17]) by rrz.Hanse.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21330; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:35:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stb@transit.hanse.de) Received: from transit.hanse.de (transit.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.161]) by daemon.Hanse.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16500; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:33:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stb@transit.hanse.de) Received: (from stb@localhost) by transit.hanse.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03396; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:33:52 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:33:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: Stefan Bethke To: Chris Radek cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Accton EtherPocket device driver porting help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Chris Radek wrote: > I am wanting to port the Linux driver for the Accton EtherPocket > parallel port ethernet device to FreeBSD. I am having trouble finding a > starting point - the FreeBSD Device Driver Writer's Guide looks great > for character devices, but is unhelpful (empty!) for network devices. [ snip ] > If not, where does a person begin when porting a network driver? I am > not allergic to digging through existing code, but a summary of the > necessary parts would be very helpful. Perhaps something like Linux's > skeleton.c? For "standard" ISA or PCI devices, take a look at one of the existing drivers; many of them are quite simple in their structure. In your case, however, you'd might be better off by looking at lp(4), the IP-over-parallel (aka PLIP) driver, in sys/isa/lpt.c, which basically does what you want, but with a different low-level interface. If you have enougth info on how to communicate with the adapter, this is probably the way to go (note, however, that having the Linux source might not necessarily be considered "enought info", depending on how much you'd be willing to do trial-and-error). You might also consider adding a line discipline a la PPP or SLIP to be loaded on top of the standard lpt driver, if that would be more suitable for the way to communicate to the adapter. Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Muehlendamm 12 Phone: +49-40-256848, +49-177-3504009 D-22087 Hamburg Hamburg, Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 16:45:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21243 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:45:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21233 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:45:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from graphix@iastate.edu) Received: from pseudo (pseudo.cc.iastate.edu [129.186.142.93]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA03883; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:45:10 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kent Vander Velden" To: Cc: Subject: Optimization bug with gcc 2.7.2 + mktemp Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:45:06 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd627f$311fd3e0$5d8eba81@pseudo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I'm running -current supped at the beginning of March. >I been having core dumps when using programs that called mktemp(3) >repeatedly. I finally traced it down to the fact that when I compile >libc with -fomit-frame-pointer, mktemp.c is compiled incorrectly. >Specifially, when _gettemp is called, the third argument (domkdir) is >garbage. This is "impossible" because _mktemp calls it thusly: I have been having similar problems with cvs. It leaves the /tmp/cvs* files and core dumps very often. I forget the actual trace dump at the moment but it had to do with tmpnam(). I compile with -O2 and do not use -fomit-frame-pointer. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 16:52:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22765 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:52:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22757 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:52:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA06695 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:51:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,20863,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh Quotes Netscape people indicating that the Suitespot server is being developed for Linux -- and by the sounds of it, not even as a farm-out-to-third-party-vendor as is done with BSD/OS (something that irked me, as BSDI is a version or so behind Netscape's releases). I wonder if we could pursuade Netscape to write on FreeBSD also? I know of a number of companies who would be interested in paying for Netscape's servers on FreeBSD :). I also wonder what it will take to get the FreeBSD release to appear on Netscape's standard list of clients, and not always in their development directory? These things are small, but they do make us look a little like a second-class operating system in the eyes of Netscape. And given that FreeBSD makes such a great network server platform, that is a little upsetting. Robert N Watson ---- Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ Trusted Information Systems http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 17:10:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26589 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:10:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26580 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:10:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA07088 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:10:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Netscape ported to Qt (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sounds fun. I haven't tried it under the Linux emulator yet, as I don't get great connectivity with Norway :). Would no doubt make a great port, however. Robert N Watson ---- Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ Trusted Information Systems http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 06 Apr 1998 23:26:42 +0200 From: info@troll.no To: mozilla-announce@mozilla.org Subject: Netscape ported to Qt Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: mozilla-announce@mozilla.org FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: TROLL TECH PRESENTS Qt-BASED VERSION OF NETSCAPE NAVIGATOR 5.0 (April 6, 1998) Troll Tech today released the QtScape demonstration program to the public. A team of seven programmers have in five days ported to Qt the newly released Netscape Navigator web browser source code. Qt is Troll Tech's multi-platform Graphical User Interface (GUI) toolkit. The free QtScape is released as a "proof of concept" that Qt as a platform provides all the functionality required for making state-of-the-art GUI applications, as well as allowing rapid application development. "When Netscape Communications Corporation earlier this year announced that it would release the source code of Communicator 5.0, we decided that this was the perfect opportunity to show the world the flexibility and effectiveness of our GUI toolkit" said Eirik Eng, CEO of Troll Tech. "By giving a team of seven programmers only five days - a "mythical man-month" - to achieve a functioning Qt port of Netscape Navigator, we wanted to demonstrate the ease and speed of developing graphical user interfaces with Qt." The QtScape development team, consisting of five Troll Tech senior engineers as well as two programmers volunteering from the free software community. Netscape released the Communicator source code March 31, and the team came together the day after to face an immense task: to replace the 500 000 lines of C and C++ code in the X-Windows/Motif and Microsoft Windows specific parts of Communicator. Nonetheless, QtScape implements almost all the main web browser functionality of Netscape Navigator. In some areas, the port improves on the original: The pages are drawn noticeably faster, and the color handling on 256-color screens is better. "We were confident that we would achieve a satisfactory result, although the Communicator source code was not easily penetrated" said Haavard Nord, president of Troll Tech. "This represents definite evidence of the power and flexibility of Qt, as well as a demonstration of the skills of our programmers. I am very satisfied." QtScape is available at http://www.troll.no/qtscape/. It is presented as a Qt demonstration program only, not a Troll Tech product. The full source code is released under the Netscape Public License, which allows free distribution and modification. Further information about the release of Netscape Communicator is available at http://www.mozilla.org. One of the freeware developers, Kalle Dalheimer, is also available for Qt-related contract work. He can be contacted at kalle@dalheimer.hh.eunet.de. Troll Tech AS is a computer software company specializing in multi-platform C++ libraries for graphical user interfaces. Its flagship product Qt is used as a basis for successful commercial applications world wide. Troll Tech is located in Oslo, Norway. Further information is available at http://www.troll.no. Netscape, Navigator and Communicator are trademarks of Netscape Communications Corporation. Qt is a trademark of Troll Tech AS. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 17:20:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28149 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:20:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA28143 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:20:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18867; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:18:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: ac199@hwcn.org cc: Konstantin Chuguev , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pkg_add from FTP repositary In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Apr 1998 18:18:16 EDT." Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 17:18:44 -0700 Message-ID: <18864.891994724@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Have you actually tried this? pkg_add(1) is supposed to be able > to automatically fetch dependencies over FTP based on the > original URL you pass it. I think you need to have all of the > packages in the same directory, though. Well, what it's supposed to do is take the URL apart and try to figure out where its "brother" packages live. If there's no packages/All/ directory on the site in question, that might be difficult. To be honest, it's also been awhile since I've actually tested this feature, but it *is* supposed to work. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 17:41:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00981 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:41:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00973 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:40:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 14638 invoked by uid 1017); 7 Apr 1998 23:38:30 -0000 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:38:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Any of these kernel opts break RPC? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG When I have these opts in my config files, RPC services can not bind. Kernel is 2.2.6-STABLE from 0404. Removing these lines fixed RPC. options "MD5" # Encryption options DDB # Debugger options PERFMON # Performance Monitor options IPFIREWALL # For bpfilter This machine is NIS master, so I did not have time to have it down long enought to reboot 4 times :(. Any known problems? Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 17:49:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01867 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:49:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01858 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:49:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13479; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:19:09 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA10945; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:19:09 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980408101908.34699@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:19:08 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Soren S. Jorvang" , FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter References: <199804071811.UAA03889@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Soren S. Jorvang on Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:50:14AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 8 April 1998 at 0:50:14 +0200, Soren S. Jorvang wrote: > > [Matrox Millenium stability] > > If you want to be "sure" that the Matrox Millenium you buy works with > XFree86, get the original ('I') PCI model with an 2**n amount of > memory. Unfortunately, there are two different types of Millenium I. I have one of each; the older (larger board) works with my XI graphics server 1.3, the newer one doesn't. I suspect both would work with the latest version of the server, but $375 is more than I'm prepared to pay. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 18:03:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03891 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:03:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rrz.Hanse.DE (rrz.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03803 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stb@transit.hanse.de) Received: from daemon.Hanse.DE (daemon.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.17]) by rrz.Hanse.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA22288; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:03:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stb@transit.hanse.de) Received: from transit.hanse.de (transit.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.161]) by daemon.Hanse.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA21210; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:02:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stb@transit.hanse.de) Received: (from stb@localhost) by transit.hanse.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA04852; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:02:10 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:02:09 +0200 (MET DST) From: Stefan Bethke To: Atipa cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any of these kernel opts break RPC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Atipa wrote: > > When I have these opts in my config files, RPC services can not bind. > Kernel is 2.2.6-STABLE from 0404. Removing these lines fixed RPC. > > options "MD5" # Encryption > options DDB # Debugger > options PERFMON # Performance Monitor > options IPFIREWALL # For bpfilter IPFIREWALL has nothing to do with Berkeley Packet Filter (bpf or bpfilter). Look at ipfw(8), /etc/rc.local and /etc/rc.firewall on how to use this IP packet filtering facility properly. > This machine is NIS master, so I did not have time to have it down long > enought to reboot 4 times :(. The most probable cause for your problems is that you haven't set up any firewall rules, so communication through the loopback interface fails, or at least connections to your NIS server are dropped. As a general hint, you might want to study LINT before including any option in your kernel config. From LINT: # IPFIREWALL enables support for IP firewall construction, in # conjunction with the `ipfw' program. IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE sends # logged packets to the system logger. IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT # limits the number of times a matching entry can be logged. # # WARNING: IPFIREWALL defaults to a policy of "deny ip from any to any" # and if you do not add other rules during startup to allow access, # YOU WILL LOCK YOURSELF OUT. It is suggested that you set firewall=open # in /etc/rc.conf when first enabling this feature, then refining the # firewall rules in /etc/rc.firewall after you've tested that the new kernel # feature works properly. Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Muehlendamm 12 Phone: +49-40-256848, +49-177-3504009 D-22087 Hamburg Hamburg, Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 18:17:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07626 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA07120 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 14745 invoked by uid 1017); 8 Apr 1998 00:13:19 -0000 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:13:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: Stefan Bethke cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any of these kernel opts break RPC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > When I have these opts in my config files, RPC services can not bind. > > Kernel is 2.2.6-STABLE from 0404. Removing these lines fixed RPC. > > > > options "MD5" # Encryption > > options DDB # Debugger > > options PERFMON # Performance Monitor > > options IPFIREWALL # For bpfilter > Look at ipfw(8), /etc/rc.local and /etc/rc.firewall on how to use this IP > packet filtering facility properly. > > > This machine is NIS master, so I did not have time to have it down long > > enought to reboot 4 times :(. > > The most probable cause for your problems is that you haven't set up any > firewall rules, so communication through the loopback interface fails, or > at least connections to your NIS server are dropped. I had firewall type set to "open" in /etc/rc.conf. I will have to reboot to get the precise error. I have MAX_USERS=256; would that make MAX_OPEN grow over 256? If so, that would break RPC... Thanks for the response, Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 18:17:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07898 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:17:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay1.kar.net (relay1.kar.net [195.5.17.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07712 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:17:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kushn@mail.kar.net) Received: from olinet.isf.kiev.ua by relay1.kar.net with ESMTP id EAA29264; (8.8.last/vAk3/1.9) Wed, 8 Apr 1998 04:11:19 +0300 (EEST) Received: from kushnir.kiev.ua by olinet.isf.kiev.ua with SMTP id DAA00586; (8.8.last/vAk3/1.9) Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:58:21 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 04:03:47 +0300 (EEST) From: Vladimir Kushnir X-Sender: volodya@kushnir.kiev.ua Reply-To: Vladimir Kushnir To: Robert Watson cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape ported to Qt (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Robert Watson wrote: > > Sounds fun. I haven't tried it under the Linux emulator yet, as I don't > get great connectivity with Norway :). Would no doubt make a great port, > however. > > Robert N Watson > It's fun all right. Actually it compiles on FreeBSD as well (with some very minor tweaking (add -L/usr/X11R6/lib in QT front-end Makefile and likes). A nessessary QT snapshot is at ftp://ftp.troll.no/qt/snapshots. And it's really alot faster than (Mo/Less)tif version, and with (obviously) not as large memory footprint. Regards, Vladimir > > > QtScape is available at http://www.troll.no/qtscape/. It is presented > as a Qt demonstration program only, not a Troll Tech product. The full > source code is released under the Netscape Public License, which > allows free distribution and modification. Further information about > the release of Netscape Communicator is available at > http://www.mozilla.org. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 18:28:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11224 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:28:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10242; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id DAA27630; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:24:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:24:02 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Accton EN1207 (need help fast) Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 08 Apr 1998 03:24:01 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 32 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm having trouble getting a brand new Accton EN1207 (Cheetah) to work on my FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE system. The adapter is detected as follows: de0 rev 34 int a irq 5 on pci0:9:0 de0: ACCTON EN1207 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de0: address 00:00:e8:4a:83:63 de0: enabling 100baseTX port I have set up the following in rc.conf.local: network_interfaces="lo0 de0 lp0" ifconfig_de0="inet 62.92.165.69 netmask 255.255.224.0" I have also tried: network_interfaces="lo0 de0 lp0" ifconfig_de0="inet 62.92.165.69 netmask 255.255.224.0 media 10baseT/UTP" IP, netmask, gateway, etc. are all correct - everything works perfectly with my old 3Com 3c509 (ep0). I get a link light on the hub when I connect to it - the hub and the cable are known to be working. If I try to ping the broadcast address, the link light will blink once a second (as one would expect) but it would seem that no data is getting through. I need to get this working within 24 hours if at all possible, so I'd appreciate a quick response from anybody who has experience with that adapter and/or chipset. -- fprintf(stderr, "I have a closed mind. It helps keeping the rain out.\n"); To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 18:51:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15292 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14866 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:50:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from piquan@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (newip74.wcc.net [206.104.247.74]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08311; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:45:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19059; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:50:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:50:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804080150.UAA19059@detlev.UUCP> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: How to rebuild parts of source tree From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a rather slow machine, and `make world' can tie it up for quite some time. This is partially because it seems to rebuild everything, not just what's changed. Does `make install' DTRT if only a few parts of the system have changed? Thanks, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 19:10:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20556 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:10:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20493 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:10:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA19823; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:09:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Robert Watson cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape ported to Qt (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Robert Watson wrote: > Sounds fun. I haven't tried it under the Linux emulator yet, as I don't > get great connectivity with Norway :). Would no doubt make a great port, > however. Someone needs to encourage the gtk people to do a GTK port. Getting rid of motif should be a primary goal for any netscape work. :) You'll also note that the SSLeay people have a working integration already. :) /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 19:17:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22060 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:17:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA21984 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:17:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20271; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:16:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804080216.TAA20271@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Robert Watson cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Apr 1998 19:51:59 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 19:16:23 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think that we just need to start bitching to Netscape . If I am not mistaken we also have FreeBSD supporters in Netscape . Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 19:23:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23573 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:23:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA23558 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:23:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20400; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:23:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804080223.TAA20400@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: Robert Watson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape ported to Qt (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Apr 1998 22:09:55 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 19:23:27 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The gtk workers or volunteers have been properly flogged in the mozilla newsgroup. Amancio > On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Robert Watson wrote: > > Sounds fun. I haven't tried it under the Linux emulator yet, as I don't > > get great connectivity with Norway :). Would no doubt make a great port, > > however. > > Someone needs to encourage the gtk people to do a GTK port. Getting rid > of motif should be a primary goal for any netscape work. :) > > You'll also note that the SSLeay people have a working integration > already. :) > > /* > Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life > winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to > http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 > */ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 19:49:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28008 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:49:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.numachi.com (numachi.numachi.com [198.175.254.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA27970 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:48:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reichert@numachi.numachi.COM) Received: (qmail 23303 invoked by uid 1001); 8 Apr 1998 02:48:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19980407224839.64875@numachi.com> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:48:39 -0400 From: Brian Reichert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: dhcpc and ed3 interface Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hiya- I'm having marginal luck getting the wide-dhcpc DHCP client working consistently. I've got the bpf interface built, etc, but occasionally, when I reboot, the dhcpc process bitches that my 'device isn't configured for dhcp'. Rebooting _eventually_ clues it in, but I feel it's silly to adopt such an M$-like solution. I admit I'm using the worlds cheapest PCI NE2000 clones. But these things have been behaving quite well. Does anyone have an opinion as to to why the dhcpc software occasionally thinks my card isn't configured? -- Brian Reichert reichert@numachi.com 37 Crystal Ave. #303 Current daytime number: (617)-873-4337 Derry NH 03038-1713 USA Intel architecture: the left-hand path To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 20:33:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04179 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:33:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04171 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:33:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA09092; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd009090; Wed Apr 8 03:26:51 1998 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:21:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Gianmarco Giovannelli cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates vs. async In-Reply-To: <351C4421.C01345A0@giovannelli.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sorry for the long delay... soft updates leaves you however with a disk that is consistant after a crash or power fail. it is also much FASTER in some cases.. (but not all). do you have /usr/tmp async or softdep (for example) (or wherever gcc puts it's tmp files..) julian On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > I tried several make world in these days trying different configurations > to see which of them works better... > > I saw that async is performing better than softupdates (is it possible > ???) ... infact : > > **** -j4 build+install X softup ***** > ---- Start Make World : Thu Mar 26 21:56:33 GMT 1998 > ---- End Make World : Thu Mar 26 23:41:36 GMT 1998 > > 1h 45m > > > **** -j4 build+install X async ***** > ---- Start Make World : Fri Mar 27 07:02:58 GMT 1998 > ---- End Make World : Fri Mar 27 08:26:35 GMT 1998 > > 1h 24m > > > **** -j4 build+install notcl noprofi noperl noX async ***** > ---- Start Make World : Fri Mar 27 10:43:23 GMT 1998 > ---- End Make World : Fri Mar 27 11:56:25 GMT 1998 > > 1h 13m > > > **** -j4 world notcl noprofi noperl noX async ***** > ---- Start Make World : Fri Mar 27 20:29:01 GMT 1998 > ---- End Make World : Fri Mar 27 21:41:02 GMT 1998 > > 1h 12m > > > Now considering that my box is a Pentium 2 (300mhz) with a2940uw > (onboard) and two hd wide scsi /usr/src and /usr/obj on two different > drives... it seems to me that I am quite slow considering the times I > saw in this area... > > Any suggests ? > > -- > > Regards... > > Gianmarco > "Unix expert since yesterday" > > http://www.giovannelli.it > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 21:35:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12270 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:35:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12262 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:35:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA14009; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma014005; Tue Apr 7 21:34:34 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA26097; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:33:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199804080433.VAA26097@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: dhcpc and ed3 interface In-Reply-To: <19980407224839.64875@numachi.com> from Brian Reichert at "Apr 7, 98 10:48:39 pm" To: reichert@numachi.com (Brian Reichert) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Reichert writes: > I'm having marginal luck getting the wide-dhcpc DHCP client working > consistently. I've got the bpf interface built, etc, but > occasionally, when I reboot, the dhcpc process bitches that my > 'device isn't configured for dhcp'. You might also try ISC's dhcp code at www.isc.org. There's also a port for it (both versions, old-stable and new-beta). -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 21:52:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15260 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:52:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15223 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:51:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.TransSys.COM) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.TransSys.COM (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA12800; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:51:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804080451.AAA12800@whizzo.TransSys.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Amancio Hasty cc: Robert Watson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) References: <199804080216.TAA20271@rah.star-gate.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Apr 1998 19:16:23 PDT." <199804080216.TAA20271@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 00:51:41 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG An interesting question is of the high-volume FreeBSD-based web servers, how many would want to purchase the Netscape product rather than just using Apache? > I think that we just need to start bitching to Netscape . If I am not > mistaken we also have FreeBSD supporters in Netscape . louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 21:56:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16024 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:56:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15989 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:56:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA05754; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:55:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980407235553.17748@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:55:53 -0500 From: dannyman To: "Louis A. Mamakos" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) Mail-Followup-To: "Louis A. Mamakos" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199804080216.TAA20271@rah.star-gate.com> <199804080451.AAA12800@whizzo.TransSys.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804080451.AAA12800@whizzo.TransSys.COM>; from Louis A. Mamakos on Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:51:41AM -0400 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:51:41AM -0400, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > > An interesting question is of the high-volume FreeBSD-based web servers, > how many would want to purchase the Netscape product rather than just > using Apache? > > > I think that we just need to start bitching to Netscape . If I am not > > mistaken we also have FreeBSD supporters in Netscape . Suprisingly enough, many of the ones on crack, and others with corporate overlords on crack who are scared of any product not backed by a corporation. -dan -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 22:06:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17756 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:06:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17731 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:06:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03405; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:06:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id AAA19301; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:05:43 -0500 Message-ID: <19980408000542.59657@right.PCS> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:05:42 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: dannyman Cc: "Louis A. Mamakos" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) References: <199804080216.TAA20271@rah.star-gate.com> <199804080451.AAA12800@whizzo.TransSys.COM> <19980407235553.17748@urh.uiuc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <19980407235553.17748@urh.uiuc.edu>; from dannyman on Apr 04, 1998 at 11:55:53PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Apr 04, 1998 at 11:55:53PM -0500, dannyman wrote: > On Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:51:41AM -0400, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > > > > An interesting question is of the high-volume FreeBSD-based web servers, > > how many would want to purchase the Netscape product rather than just > > using Apache? > > > Suprisingly enough, many of the ones on crack, and others with corporate > overlords on crack who are scared of any product not backed by a > corporation. And these people are using FreeBSD in the first place? -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 7 22:07:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17933 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA17927 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:07:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMmgo-0000mV-00; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:42:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:42:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom To: "Louis A. Mamakos" cc: Amancio Hasty , Robert Watson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) In-Reply-To: <199804080451.AAA12800@whizzo.TransSys.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > An interesting question is of the high-volume FreeBSD-based web servers, > how many would want to purchase the Netscape product rather than just > using Apache? I think there would be more interest in the other stuff that makes up SuiteSpot like the integrated mail and news server with LDAP support combined with a web interface. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 01:11:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14325 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:11:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ppp6449.on.bellglobal.com (ppp6449.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14320 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:11:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by ppp6449.on.bellglobal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA00245; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:54:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: ppp6449.on.bellglobal.com: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:54:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: ac199@hwcn.org, Konstantin Chuguev , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pkg_add from FTP repositary In-Reply-To: <18864.891994724@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Well, what it's supposed to do is take the URL apart and try > to figure out where its "brother" packages live. If there's no > packages/All/ directory on the site in question, that might be > difficult. Oh-ya. You're right, and I was staring right at the code that (supposedly, hopefully) does this when I wrote that... They should only need to be in the directory All/, I think, though ("packages/" not necessary). -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 01:30:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18668 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:30:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18638; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:30:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04482; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:30:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <352B35A1.5BA5AB6C@san.rr.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 01:30:25 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Reichert CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: dhcpc and ed3 interface References: <19980407224839.64875@numachi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG First off, this belonged on -questions, not hackers. Please follow up there as needed. Brian Reichert wrote: > > Hiya- > > I'm having marginal luck getting the wide-dhcpc DHCP client working > consistently. I've got the bpf interface built, etc, but > occasionally, when I reboot, the dhcpc process bitches that my > 'device isn't configured for dhcp'. My experience with the wide client was that it was susceptible to the kinds of frustrations you describe. I have put together step-by-step instructions for setting up the ISC client at http://home.san.rr.com/freebd/dhcp.html. Please take a look at that and if you have any feedback I'd be very interested in hearing it. Good luck, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 02:18:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26421 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 02:18:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newserv.urc.ac.ru (newserv.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA26362 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 02:17:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Received: from urc.ac.ru (y.RNOC-dialup.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.127]) by newserv.urc.ac.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28981; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:36:27 +0600 (ESS) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Message-ID: <352B36D3.426BA39E@urc.ac.ru> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:35:31 +0600 From: Konstantin Chuguev Organization: South Ural Regional Center of FREEnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [ru] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: ac199@hwcn.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pkg_add from FTP repositary References: <18864.891994724@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > ? Have you actually tried this? pkg_add(1) is supposed to be able > ? to automatically fetch dependencies over FTP based on the > ? original URL you pass it. I think you need to have all of the > ? packages in the same directory, though. > > Well, what it's supposed to do is take the URL apart and try > to figure out where its "brother" packages live. If there's no > packages/All/ directory on the site in question, that might be > difficult. > > To be honest, it's also been awhile since I've actually tested this > feature, but it *is* supposed to work. :-) > I'm getting that error message, when any depended package is missing: # pkg_add ftp://ftp.urc.ac.ru/pub/OS/FreeBSD/packages/All/cvsup-15.3.tgz pkg_add: make_playpen() called before closing previous pen: -- Konstantin V. Chuguev. System administrator of Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, Joy@urc.ac.ru Chelyabinsk, Russia. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 02:54:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03757 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 02:54:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bsd.synx.com (rt.synx.com [194.167.81.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA03724 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 02:54:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from remy@synx.com) Received: from s3.synx.com (s3 [192.1.1.247]) by bsd.synx.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA04195; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:55:28 +0100 Received: from rs1 by s3.synx.com id aa07096; 8 Apr 98 11:40 BST Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:39:52 -0100 (GMT) From: Remy NONNENMACHER To: Kris Kirby cc: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <352A94B5.154AD372@ninbox.ml.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Kris Kirby wrote: > Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > 4. support for multiple cards (you can have two milleniums in a system) > > Come on, let's see that working under FreeBSD. A PC with two monitors? > At least we'd be gaining on the Macs. Sure. 4 cards with XIg multi-headed. I use 2 21" monitors. A friend of mine uses also a Sony16/10 25" (what a monster: res1920x1200). That gives you a *REAL* workstation, in term of 'usable' display surface. (and a lot of heat :)). Be Aware of matrox cards: if the one you buy doesn't works immediatly OK, return it for exchange (check that they do not return the same card). Old Matrox cards production quality were pretty unstable. I recently bought about 20 MII and had no problems (finger crossing!!). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 03:05:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA05206 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:05:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bsd.synx.com (rt.synx.com [194.167.81.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA05185 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:04:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from remy@synx.com) Received: from s3.synx.com (s3 [192.1.1.247]) by bsd.synx.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA04346; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:09:14 +0100 Received: from rs1 by s3.synx.com id aa07282; 8 Apr 98 11:54 BST Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:53:38 -0100 (GMT) From: Remy NONNENMACHER To: Nate Williams cc: Mike Smith , Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804071632.KAA06235@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > > If you can live with swarming ants, random pixel garbage and occasional > > > snow, by all means go for it. Otherwise, hang back a few months and > > > let the nice XFree MII hackers finish the job. > > > > Strange! You have problems i seen only on the first version of the old > > matrox with XIG 1.2. > > I see problems as well with both XIG/XFree86 on my MII, so he's not > alone. > Are you sure you haven't bought an 'OEM' version of the card ? > > I use 2 matrox cards (1600x1200 and 1800x1400 Multi-headed) with Xig4 and > > have no problems !!. (cards; MII, 1AGP, 1PCI, all two 8Mb). > > Have you tried using 'visuals' on XIG? Also, I haven't tried the latest > XFree86, but I used the SuSE server, which worked but had some (minor) > screen corruption problem. > One card is 256 color, the other is overlayed (256+16M). All two use default visual (so peudo and peudo/true). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 03:58:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09764 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:58:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA09756 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:58:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id DAA04988 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd004986; Wed Apr 8 03:58:33 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id DAA06695 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:58:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804081058.DAA06695@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Kernel with a detection only routine for Mylex DAC960 PCI versions To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:58:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I put a compiled kernel with the detection routine for any PCI based Mylex DAC 960 controller with firmware 4.x online. Controller with firmware 3.x should work too, but I can't promise it. I am asking anyone who has a controller and some drives available to just put the kernel on a floppy and let a machine boot. Check if it detects the controller type, channels, memory, system drives correctly. It should also detect any dead drives, offline or critical system drives. You can find the kernel at: ftp://ftp.Alameda.net/pub/FreeBSD/kernel.dac960.gz Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 04:20:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14118 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 04:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA14080 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 04:19:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199804081119.EAA14080@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA257394451; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:20:51 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: Pax weirdness (bug?) To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:20:51 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804072239.PAA01290@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Apr 7, 98 03:39:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Mike Smith, sie said: > > > Try this: > > % cat /cdrom/info/info.* | zcat | pax -r -w -v tmpdir > > Be quick with ^C. > > Any ideas? Known bogon? Fixes? (Nothing intuitive, anyway.) It might be worth importing all the changes Matthew Green has done for the NetBSD pax. From memory, they were working on making cpio/tar both a part of pax (specially adding in GNU tar functionality). Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 04:22:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14690 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 04:22:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA14681 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 04:22:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199804081122.EAA14681@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA258514578; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:22:58 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: PortalFS w/tcp... To: mcgovern@spoon.beta.com Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:22:58 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804071906.PAA14630@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> from "Brian McGovern" at Apr 7, 98 03:06:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How are you opening your TCP portal ? Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 04:37:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA18861 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 04:37:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA18764 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 04:37:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199804081137.EAA18764@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA260955523; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:38:43 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: ipopd/imapd - -ERR Can't get lock. Try again or use IMAP instead To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:38:43 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Having compiled tkrat 1.1 and installed ipop{2,3}d as well as imapd on FreeBSD 2.2.5, all three of the daemons fail to work with the following error: -ERR Can't get lock. Try again or use IMAP instead Can anyone shed any light on why this might happen ? Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 06:17:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01411 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 06:17:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01406 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 06:17:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199804081317.GAA01406@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA272191499; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:18:19 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: ipopd/imapd - -ERR Can't get lock. Try again or use IMAP instead To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:18:18 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804081137.EAA18764@hub.freebsd.org> from "Darren Reed" at Apr 8, 98 09:38:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Darren Reed, sie said: > > > Having compiled tkrat 1.1 and installed ipop{2,3}d as well as imapd > on FreeBSD 2.2.5, all three of the daemons fail to work with the > following error: > > -ERR Can't get lock. Try again or use IMAP instead > > Can anyone shed any light on why this might happen ? err, /tmp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 07:19:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08522 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 07:19:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08513 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 07:19:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA12915; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:19:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA10881; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:18:58 -0600 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:18:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199804081418.IAA10881@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Remy NONNENMACHER Cc: Nate Williams , Mike Smith , Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: References: <199804071632.KAA06235@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > If you can live with swarming ants, random pixel garbage and occasional > > > > snow, by all means go for it. Otherwise, hang back a few months and > > > > let the nice XFree MII hackers finish the job. > > > > > > Strange! You have problems i seen only on the first version of the old > > > matrox with XIG 1.2. > > > > I see problems as well with both XIG/XFree86 on my MII, so he's not > > alone. > > > > Are you sure you haven't bought an 'OEM' version of the card ? I'm sure it's an OEM version of the card, but it's definitely an MII, since I have all of the docs/such on it. > > Have you tried using 'visuals' on XIG? Also, I haven't tried the latest > > XFree86, but I used the SuSE server, which worked but had some (minor) > > screen corruption problem. > > One card is 256 color, the other is overlayed (256+16M). All two use > default visual (so peudo and peudo/true). According to XIG, there *are* problems with both visuals and high=frequencies on the MII. You can't do 1600x1200@24bit, and visuals are known to be broken. :( Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 08:12:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA17008 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:12:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from avrasya.ispro.net.tr (avrasya.ispro.net.tr [195.174.18.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16896; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yurtesen@ispro.net.tr) Received: from localhost (yurtesen@localhost) by avrasya.ispro.net.tr (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04635; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:21:29 +0300 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:21:29 +0300 (EET DST) From: Evren Yurtesen To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: !!! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG well I rebooted my system and it says to me /dev/wd0a on /: Specified device does not match mounted device. Filesystem mount, failed startup aborted what should I do??? PS. well my server is not working right now...this is a kind of serious problem for me. Evren Yurtesen ISPRO A.S. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 08:25:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19539 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:25:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19445; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:25:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA23159; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:24:52 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA14738; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:24:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980408172452.50210@follo.net> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:24:52 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Evren Yurtesen , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: !!! References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Mailfollowup-to: questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: ; from Evren Yurtesen on Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 06:21:29PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 06:21:29PM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: > well I rebooted my system and it says to me > > /dev/wd0a on /: Specified device does not match mounted device. > Filesystem mount, failed startup aborted > > what should I do??? Either rollback your kernel or upgrade 'mount'. I'd boot with my old kernel, then upgrade mount, then re-boot with the new kernel. > PS. well my server is not working right now...this is a kind of serious > problem for me. That's not an excuse to crosspost. I've set Mailfollowup-to: questions. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 08:39:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22693 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:39:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Guard.PolyNet.Lviv.UA (Guard.PolyNet.Lviv.UA [194.44.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA22508 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pam@polynet.lviv.ua) Received: (qmail 28187 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1998 15:36:55 -0000 Received: from polynet.lviv.ua (HELO NetSurfer.lp.lviv.ua) (192.168.0.3) by guard.lp.lviv.ua with SMTP; 8 Apr 1998 15:36:55 -0000 Received: from localhost (pam@localhost) by NetSurfer.lp.lviv.ua (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA28348 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:36:55 +0300 (EEST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:36:54 +0300 (EEST) From: Adrian Pavlykevych To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ifa_if* functions usage Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi everybody, Can somebody advise me on the way I can use ifa_if* functions in the userland? I hadn't any luck finding these functions in libs. There is only /usr/include/net/if.h and /usr/src/sys/net/if.c Thanks in advance, Adrian Pavlykevych To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 08:53:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25240 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:53:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25228; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:52:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sderdau@xtdl.com) Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by user.xtdl.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA20356; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:57:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:57:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Stephen A. Derdau" To: Evren Yurtesen cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I had this problem when I rebuilt 2.2.6 from 2.2.25 2.2.6 changes the name of the slice to it's truc slice name I assume you also upgraded.... AnYWAY YOU MAY Also want to wait for someone elses reply since I AM A NEWBIE TO ALL OF THIS. It worked for me though ok boot old kernel.old cd /etc vi fstab change /dev/wd0a to /dev/wd0s2a however you want to check to see if such a device exists. cd /etc sh MAKEDEV wd0s2a then when you reboot you should be able to mount / I'll cc you some info I sent yesterday regarding this ******* ******* AGAIN I AM NOT AN EXPERT AND STILL LEARNING ***** Thank You ! Stephen A. Derdau "So What if it is wrong. I am getting closer to the right answer!" "If I had a nickle for every time I was wrrong , I would want a quarter instead. :-)" On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Evren Yurtesen wrote: > well I rebooted my system and it says to me > > /dev/wd0a on /: Specified device does not match mounted device. > Filesystem mount, failed startup aborted > > what should I do??? > > PS. well my server is not working right now...this is a kind of serious > problem for me. > > Evren Yurtesen > ISPRO A.S. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 09:18:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00953 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:18:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00906 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:18:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id SAA28789 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:23:10 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 28787; Wed Apr 8 18:22:26 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199804081622.SAA06201@cdsec.com> Subject: Re: Debugging new/delete for C++ To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:22:17 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anyone know of a debugging allocator package for C++ programs. > Essentially all I want is to dump out a list of all unfreed objects > at program termination listing the file and line number where they > were allocated, the size, and perhaps an allocation number. I wrote a simple macro package some time back for this. It isn't perfect, does require code modifiication, and also only works for classes, but may suit your requirements. Here it is: ------- debug.h -------------------------------------------------------- #ifndef __DEBUG_H #define __DEBUG_H #ifdef MEMTRACE // A class for tracing construction/destruction of objects #include class _OT { protected: char *cname; char *fname; int linenum; long id; public: _OT(char *cname_in, char *fname_in, int linenum_in); _OT(const _OT &ot); _OT& operator=(const _OT&) { return *this; } ~_OT(); }; struct _MT { public: _MT(char *nm); ~_MT(); }; #define TRACE(cn) struct OT : public _OT { OT() : _OT(#cn,__FILE__, __LINE__) {} } xxxxx; #define MAINTRACE(nm) struct _MT yxyxyx(#nm); #else #define TRACE(cn) #define MAINTRACE(nm) #endif // MEMTRACE #endif ------- debug.cc ------------------------------------------------------- #ifdef MEMTRACE #include #include #include #include #include "debug.h" static FILE *tracefp = 0; static long nextid = 1; static int flush = 0; static char fname[80] = { 0 }; static void TraceClose() { if (tracefp) { fprintf(tracefp, "Closing\n"); fclose(tracefp); tracefp = 0; } flush = 2; } static void TraceOpen() { if (fname[0]==0) { if (stdout==0) return; // sanity sprintf(fname, "/tmp/mtrace.%ld", getpid()); unlink(fname); atexit(TraceClose); } if (fname[0] && stdout != 0 && tracefp==0) tracefp = fopen(fname, "a"); } static void TraceFlush() { if (flush == 1) fflush(tracefp); else if (flush == 2) { fclose(tracefp); tracefp = 0; } } static void Trace(char *op, long id, char *name, char *where, int lnum) { TraceOpen(); if (tracefp) { fprintf(tracefp, "%-8ld %s [%d:%s:%d] %s\n", id, name, getpid(), where, lnum, op); TraceFlush(); } } // we make separate ones for construct/destruct to ease debugging // using leak IDs and breakpoints static void TraceC(char *op, long id, char *name, char *where, int lnum) { Trace(op, id, name, where, lnum); } static void TraceD(char *op, long id, char *name, char *where, int lnum) { Trace(op, id, name, where, lnum); } //---------------------------------------------------------------------- _OT::_OT(char *cname_in, char *fname_in, int linenum_in) : cname(cname_in), fname(fname_in), linenum(linenum_in), id(nextid++) { TraceC("created", id, cname, fname, linenum); } _OT::_OT(const _OT &ot) : cname(ot.cname), fname(ot.fname), linenum(ot.linenum), id(nextid++) { TraceC("copy created", id, cname, fname, linenum); } _OT::~_OT() { TraceD("destroyed", id, cname, fname, linenum); } //----------------------------------------------------------------------- _MT::_MT(char *nm) { TraceOpen(); if (tracefp) { fprintf(tracefp, "Starting %s\n", nm); TraceFlush(); } } _MT::~_MT() { TraceOpen(); if (tracefp) { fprintf(tracefp, "Main exiting\n"); TraceFlush(); } } #endif ------- end ------------------------------------------------------------ To use it, you put a line: TRACE(Classname) inside each class you want traced, and add a line: MAINTRACE(Programname) to your main() routine. After running the program, the file /tmp/mtrace.PID will contain an audit trail of all traced class allocations and deallocations. You can then use the following program to show any leaks: -------- findleak.cc ------------------------------------------------------- // Scan the debug file for constructtrace and destructtrace messages, // and report any memory leaks. Quick 'n dirty... #include #include #include #include #define MAXOBJ 10000 // maximum allowed concurrent allocations struct objrecord { int id; char *loc; char *name; }; objrecord records[MAXOBJ]; int count = 0; void Init() { for (int i = 0; i < MAXOBJ; i++) { records[i].name = 0; records[i].loc = 0; records[i].id = 0; } } int FindEntry(int id) { assert(id != 0); for (int i = 0; i < MAXOBJ; i++) if (records[i].id == id) return i; return -1; } int FindSpace() // linear search :-( { for (int i = 0; i < MAXOBJ; i++) if (records[i].id == 0) return i; return -1; } void DoLine(FILE *fp, int pid) { int id; char buf[256], oname[256], loc[256], op[256]; if (fgets(buf, sizeof(buf), fp) == 0) return; buf[strlen(buf)-1] = 0; // strip \n if (sscanf(buf, "%d%s%s%s", &id, oname, loc, op)==4) { if (pid && atoi(loc+1) != pid) return; int idx = FindEntry(id); if (strcmp(op, "created") == 0) { if (idx >= 0) fprintf(stderr, "Bad construct of %s at %s, id %d!\n", oname, loc, id); else { idx = FindSpace(); if (idx < 0) fprintf(stderr, "Out of space!\n"); else { records[idx].id = id; delete [] records[idx].loc; delete [] records[idx].name; records[idx].loc = new char[strlen(loc)+1]; records[idx].name = new char[strlen(oname)+1]; strcpy(records[idx].loc, loc); strcpy(records[idx].name, oname); } } } else if (strcmp(op, "destroyed") == 0) { if (idx < 0) fprintf(stderr, "Bad destroy of %s at %s, id %d!\n", oname, loc, id); else { records[idx].id = 0; count++; } } else printf("Bad op %s\n", op); } } void Report() { for (int i = 0; i < MAXOBJ; i++) { if (records[i].id!=0) fprintf(stdout, "Leak of %s at %s, id %d\n", records[i].name, records[i].loc, records[i].id); delete [] records[i].loc; delete [] records[i].name; } } int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { if (argc != 2 && argc != 3) { fprintf(stderr, "Useage: findleak [ ] \n"); exit(-1); } int pid = 0; if (argc == 3) pid = atoi(argv[1]); FILE *fp = fopen(argv[argc-1], "r"); if (fp == 0) { fprintf(stderr, "Failed to open file %s\n", argv[1]); exit(-1); } Init(); while (!feof(fp)) DoLine(fp, pid); fclose(fp); Report(); printf("%d objects properly deallocated\n", count); return 0; } -------- end---------------------------------------------------------------- Hope this helps! -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)-253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 09:19:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01153 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:19:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (ken@panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01084 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:19:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA02357; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:19:09 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199804081619.KAA02357@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804071657.JAA00365@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 7, 98 09:57:00 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote... > > Wilko Bulte writes: > > Interesting summary, as I may shortly be in the market to replace > > my 2MB Mach32 card. Was surprised nobody quoted > > /usr/ports/benchmarks/xengine results. It may not be much of a > > benchmark but its something more than seat of the pants. > > OK, people asked for it. 8) > > > I get between 750 and 1000 (peak) RPM, usually in the 800's with a 2MB > > PCI Mach32, 1024x768 16bpp with exmh also open. 64MB PPro-200/512k. > > > > About 1100 RPM on an 800x600 16bpp P-133 Mach64 machine at work. > > Under 3.0 as of early March, 337MHz PII on a 75MHz bus, talking to a > 4M Matrox Millenium II. > > XFree86 3.3.2, 1024x768x32bpp - 790rpm (constant) > XFree86 3.3.2, 1280x1024x24bpp - 845rpm (constant, screen corrupt) > XFree86 3.3.2, 1600x1200x16bpp - 1200rpm (constant) > XFree86 3.3.2, 1600x1200x 8bpp - 2780rpm (constant) > > Xaccel 4.01, 1280x1024x24bpp - 970rpm (constant) > Xaccel 4.01, 1600x1200x16bpp - 1480rpm (constant) > Xaccel 4.01, 1600x1200x 8bpp - 6105rpm (constant, screen corrupt) > > Performance isn't (to me) so much an issue as the server working. > Right now, neither work properly. The Xig server works better for me > than the XFree server, in that it's hard to use the system when there's > noise all over your windows. YMMV. current, late March, 233MHz Pentium Pro, 8M Millennium II Xaccel 4.1, 1280x1024x32bpp - sometimes ~1900rpm, sometimes ~2030rpm I've got a number of patches to Accelerated X 4.1 applied. If indeed you only have 4.01, you might want to upgrade to 4.1 and get the patches. The description for patch 22 says that it increases performance for the Millennium II. I'm not sure about the color depth, it's either 24 or 32bpp. In the Accelerated X setup thing, I've got the colors set to "16M, Overlays" as opposed to "16M, Packed". So I assume that's probably 32bpp. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 09:23:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02440 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:23:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.10.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02261; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:22:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA02720; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:22:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:22:24 +0200 (CEST) From: Konrad Heuer To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Mysterious Extended DOS Partition Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm not sure whether this is the mailing list of choice to tell about the problem I observed - but might be! On a PC with 4 primary partitions (NTFS-OS/2 Boot Manager-FAT-FreeBSD) I wanted to remove NT and to change its partition to an extended DOS one (shame on me not to create a FreeBSD partition). I used FreeBSD's fdisk to change the partition id to 5. What happened? After rebooting Win 95 seemed to hang but after a couple of time it detected more then 26 logical DOS drives in that partition although DOS' fdisk couldn't detect anyone. It was impossible to delete or use this partition with DOS/W95. Trying to boot FreeBSD (2.2.2 & 2.2.5-R) even from a floppy gave no help. The kernel detected more than 32 slices within the extended partition and died without mercy after scanning the hardware. Of course I know now(!) that an extended DOS partition contains information about logical drives which FreeBSD's fdisk doesn't generate. But may be it would be possible to make the kernel accept more than 32 logical drives - I only wanted to delete the partition entry I made with FreeBSD !!! Shame on me once again: To repair the mysterious partition I booted Linux which was successful and I deleted the partition with the Linux fdisk. Konrad Heuer, GWEDG, Goettingen, Germany (kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 09:38:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06698 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:38:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06577 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:38:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id SAA29554 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:43:10 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 29516; Wed Apr 8 18:42:15 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199804081642.SAA06272@cdsec.com> Subject: Re: Debugging new/delete for C++ (fwd) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:42:15 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ------- debug.cc ------------------------------------------------------- ... > > // we make separate ones for construct/destruct to ease debugging > // using leak IDs and breakpoints > > static void TraceC(char *op, long id, char *name, char *where, int lnum) > { > Trace(op, id, name, where, lnum); > } > > static void TraceD(char *op, long id, char *name, char *where, int lnum) > { > Trace(op, id, name, where, lnum); > } I forgot to mention - this can be quite useful. After running findleak, if it reports any errors it will also report the ID associated with the allocation or deallocation that caused the error. This ID should be unique. If you rerun your program with the same inputs, assuming there is no behaviour dependent on other factors (such as timing or random numbers), you should be able to set a breakpoint on either TraceC or TraceD with the condition that the id parameter equals the ID you are interested in, and get the debugger to stop the program at the offending allocation or deallocation. -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)-253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 09:57:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10987 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:57:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mexcom.net (ver2-94.uninet.net.mx [200.38.135.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10698 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:56:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eculp@ver1.telmex.net.mx) Received: from sunix (telmex@sunix.mexcom.net [206.103.64.3]) by ns.mexcom.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA05338; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:53:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <352BAD63.1995A0A4@ver1.telmex.net.mx> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:01:23 -0500 From: Edwin Culp Organization: Mexico Communicates, S.C. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.14 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Belits CC: dannyman , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: quickcam (was: Re: mozilla source) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alex Belits wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Edwin Culp wrote: > > > > Of course, it should be user-configurable just what that daemon is doing. > > > I might get esoteric and link it to my QuickCam. Whee! > > > > Caught my attention the QuickCam. I thought it wasn't supported by > > FreeBSD > > anymore. I want to integrate a very simple (Inexpensive:-) video > > conferencing > > system on our office lan. Would that be a good solution or does someone > > have > > something better? I would be nice for it to work with reduced quality > > on a > > ppp modem connection for our telecommuting folks. > > I wrote some user-space camera handling -- grabber and HTTP streaming. > > http://phobos.illtel.denver.co.us/pub/qcread/README.html > http://phobos.illtel.denver.co.us/pub/qcwebcam/README.html > > -- > Alex I just recieved my camaras and recieved VC's that I read aren't supported and my suppliers don't have the standard quick cam. Do these drivers support the quickcam VC? Thanks ed To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 10:21:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15815 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:21:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.numachi.com (numachi.numachi.com [198.175.254.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA15764 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reichert@numachi.numachi.COM) Received: (qmail 27530 invoked by uid 1001); 8 Apr 1998 17:19:27 -0000 Message-ID: <19980408131927.45707@numachi.com> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:19:27 -0400 From: Brian Reichert To: Kartik Narayan Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dhcpc and ed3 interface References: <19980407224839.64875@numachi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Kartik Narayan on Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 11:35:49AM +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 11:35:49AM +0800, Kartik Narayan wrote: > Have you built enough bpf devices in /dev? I had a similar problem and > it was (embarassingly) pointed out to me that I did not have enough of > them. Make bpf0 through 4 and try. Well, the kernel line says '4', so I made bpf[0-3]. Should I have build up to 4? Even still, it wasn't bitching about not being able to open a bpf device, it was claiming my ed3 interface 'wan't configured for dhcp'. > Alternatively you can try using the > isc-dhcp client. (www.isc.org). Works quite well for me, and yes, I'm > using a NE2000 clone too... Yours is the second suggestion to try the isc-dhcp client. I had gotten the impression from the mail archives that the wide-dhcpc client was more solid. Does the general public (ie. us :0 have a good 'feel' for which of these clients is presently more stable? > regards > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Kartik Narayan kartik@letterbox.com > National University of Singapore http://googoo.dyn.ml.org -- Brian Reichert reichert@numachi.com 37 Crystal Ave. #303 Current daytime number: (617)-873-4337 Derry NH 03038-1713 USA Intel architecture: the left-hand path To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 10:35:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18411 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:35:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18361 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA12827; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:34:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980408123437.03735@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:34:37 -0500 From: dannyman To: Edwin Culp , Alex Belits Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: quickcam (was: Re: mozilla source) Mail-Followup-To: Edwin Culp , Alex Belits , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <352BAD63.1995A0A4@ver1.telmex.net.mx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <352BAD63.1995A0A4@ver1.telmex.net.mx>; from Edwin Culp on Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:01:23PM -0500 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:01:23PM -0500, Edwin Culp wrote: > Alex Belits wrote: > > http://phobos.illtel.denver.co.us/pub/qcread/README.html > > http://phobos.illtel.denver.co.us/pub/qcwebcam/README.html > > I just recieved my camaras and recieved VC's that I read aren't supported > and my suppliers don't have the standard quick cam. Do these drivers > support the quickcam VC? The B&W quickcam that I use goes through the parallel port, and is supported by this software, which uses the parallel port. -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 10:41:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19942 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:41:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19926 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:41:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02279; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:40:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804081740.KAA02279@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Edwin Culp cc: Alex Belits , dannyman , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: quickcam (was: Re: mozilla source) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:01:23 CDT." <352BAD63.1995A0A4@ver1.telmex.net.mx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 10:40:50 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bt848 cards are dirt cheap . Less than $100 and they do 30fps at 640x480 32bits color depth. For further info see: http://www.freebds.org/~ahasty/Bt848.html Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 10:57:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21675 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:57:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21654 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:57:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA19824; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:57:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980408125711.33094@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:57:11 -0500 From: dannyman To: Amancio Hasty , Edwin Culp Cc: Alex Belits , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: quickcam (was: Re: mozilla source) Mail-Followup-To: Amancio Hasty , Edwin Culp , Alex Belits , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <352BAD63.1995A0A4@ver1.telmex.net.mx> <199804081740.KAA02279@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804081740.KAA02279@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 10:40:50AM -0700 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 10:40:50AM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Bt848 cards are dirt cheap . Less than $100 and they do 30fps at 640x480 > 32bits color depth. > > For further info see: http://www.freebds.org/~ahasty/Bt848.html Which do you reccomend? It seems that the STB model, at http://www.freebds.org/~ahasty/Bt848.html is best ... but at what price? Where to buy? -dan -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 11:07:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23580 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:07:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA23548 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:07:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA20640 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:06:37 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA01069; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:26:11 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199804081726.TAA01069@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804081619.KAA02357@panzer.plutotech.com> from "Kenneth D. Merry" at "Apr 8, 98 10:19:09 am" To: ken@plutotech.com (Kenneth D. Merry) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:26:10 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Kenneth D. Merry wrote... > Mike Smith wrote... > > > Wilko Bulte writes: > > > Interesting summary, as I may shortly be in the market to replace [snip] > Xaccel 4.1, 1280x1024x32bpp - sometimes ~1900rpm, sometimes ~2030rpm > > I've got a number of patches to Accelerated X 4.1 applied. If > indeed you only have 4.01, you might want to upgrade to 4.1 and get the > patches. The description for patch 22 says that it increases performance > for the Millennium II. > > I'm not sure about the color depth, it's either 24 or 32bpp. In > the Accelerated X setup thing, I've got the colors set to "16M, Overlays" > as opposed to "16M, Packed". So I assume that's probably 32bpp. xwininfo will tell you: Like: Width: 1024 Height: 768 Depth: 16 Visual Class: TrueColor Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl __________________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD ______ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 11:35:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27531 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:35:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (dyn1-tnt1-155.chicago.il.ameritech.net [199.179.160.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27520 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:35:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@stox.sa.enteract.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.stox.sa.enteract.com [127.0.0.1]) by m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA15033; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:34:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:34:49 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" To: dannyman cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: quickcam (was: Re: mozilla source) In-Reply-To: <19980408125711.33094@urh.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, dannyman wrote: > Which do you reccomend? It seems that the STB model, at > http://www.freebds.org/~ahasty/Bt848.html is best ... but at what price? > Where to buy? Personally, I would recommend the Haupauge. Last time I saw it, it was $99 at CompUSA. -Ken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 11:37:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28087 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:37:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27969 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:36:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id NAA02567; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:35:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980408133555.22367@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:35:55 -0500 From: dannyman To: "Kenneth P. Stox" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: quickcam (was: Re: mozilla source) Mail-Followup-To: "Kenneth P. Stox" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980408125711.33094@urh.uiuc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Kenneth P. Stox on Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 01:34:49PM -0500 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 01:34:49PM -0500, Kenneth P. Stox wrote: > On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, dannyman wrote: > > > Which do you reccomend? It seems that the STB model, at > > http://www.freebds.org/~ahasty/Bt848.html is best ... but at what price? > > Where to buy? > > Personally, I would recommend the Haupauge. Last time I saw it, it was $99 > at CompUSA. ... but _why_ would you reccomend it, other than price and easy availability? ;) -dan -- dannyman FreeBSD/Amiga ** http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ EnterAct: #1 ISP in Illinois! ** http://www.enteract.com/ Tel: 773 248 8511 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 11:50:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29929 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:50:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from actcom.co.il (baum@actcom.co.il [192.114.47.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29882; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:49:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from baum@actcom.co.il) Received: from localhost by actcom.co.il with SMTP (8.8.6/actcom-0.2) id VAA01772; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:49:00 +0300 (EET DST) (rfc931-sender: baum@localhost) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:49:00 +0300 (EET DST) From: Alexander Indenbaum To: "Vladimir N. Kovalev" cc: freebsd-qwestion@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.5R and PPPD 2.2.3 .... In-Reply-To: <35244A26.435FE673@scn.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Vladimir N. Kovalev wrote: > Hello ! > Anybody know how to install PPPD 2.3.3 from > ftp://cs.anu.edu.au/pub/software/ppp/ on FreeBSD 2.2.5R ? > I can compile user-level PPPD code, but cannot rebuild the kernel after > update. I compiled a few months ago pppd 2.3 ( the latest betta ) since I had to dial to NT RAS and needed suport for MS CHAP and CBCP ( RAS callback protocol ). I did not touch kernel at all and tracing weekly -stable. In pppd I took kernel related files from pppd in -current. In any case, it works just fine ( I'm heavy ppp user :{) ). I can send you binary if you want. > > Thanks in advance. > > Vladimir N. Kovalev > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Alexander Indenbaum baum@actcom.co.il To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 12:40:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07304 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:40:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07289 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:40:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA00154; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd000145; Wed Apr 8 19:32:59 1998 Message-ID: <352BCFBE.15FB7483@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:27:58 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Pavlykevych CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifa_if* functions usage References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3F54BC7E1CFBAE3959E2B600" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3F54BC7E1CFBAE3959E2B600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian Pavlykevych wrote: > > Hi everybody, > > Can somebody advise me on the way I can use ifa_if* functions in the > userland? I hadn't any luck finding these functions in libs. There is only > /usr/include/net/if.h and /usr/src/sys/net/if.c > > Thanks in advance, > > Adrian Pavlykevych > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message what do you want to do? it's possible that the following might allow you to get enough info to do what you want. The ifa_if.. functions work inside the kernel and directly access private information. You shouldn't do that.. --------------3F54BC7E1CFBAE3959E2B600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="dumpifs.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="dumpifs.c" #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include void showbytes(unsigned char *cptr,int len) { int i,j; for (j = 0 ;len > 0 ;j++) { for ( i = 0; i < 16; i++) { printf("0x%x ",*cptr++); if (--len == 0) break; } printf("\n"); } } void print_sa (struct sockaddr *sap) { char buf[128]; printf("len=%d,",sap->sa_len); switch(sap->sa_family) { case AF_LINK: printf(" family=LINK\n"); { char *cptr; struct sockaddr_dl *sdl = (struct sockaddr_dl *)sap; cptr = sdl->sdl_data; printf("index=%u, type=%u ", sdl->sdl_index, sdl->sdl_type); printf("nlen=%u, alen=%u, slen=%u\n", sdl->sdl_nlen, sdl->sdl_alen, sdl->sdl_slen); if(sdl->sdl_nlen) { bcopy(cptr,buf,sdl->sdl_nlen); buf[sdl->sdl_nlen] = 0; printf(" name = %s\n",buf); cptr += sdl->sdl_nlen; } if(sdl->sdl_alen) { printf(" address = "); showbytes(cptr,sdl->sdl_alen); cptr += sdl->sdl_alen; } if(sdl->sdl_slen) { printf(" selector = "); showbytes(cptr,sdl->sdl_slen); cptr += sdl->sdl_slen; } } break; case AF_INET: printf(" family=INET\n"); printf("[%s]", inet_ntoa(((struct sockaddr_in *)sap)->sin_addr)); printf(".%hu\n",((struct sockaddr_in *)sap)->sin_port); break; default: printf(" family=%d\n",sap->sa_family); showbytes(sap->sa_data,sap->sa_len-2); } } /* * Get the configuration from the kernel. Only called if there's no * configuration. */ void getifconf( void ) { struct ifconf ifc; struct ifreq ifrs[ 64 ], *ifr, *nextifr; struct interface *iface, *niface; int s; struct sockaddr *sa_p; int ifrsize = 0; bzero(&ifc,sizeof(struct ifconf)); bzero(ifrs,sizeof(struct ifreq) * 64); if (( s = socket( AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, 0 )) < 0 ) { perror( "socket" ); exit( 1 ); } ifc.ifc_len = sizeof( ifrs ); ifc.ifc_buf = (caddr_t)ifrs; if ( ioctl( s, SIOCGIFCONF, &ifc ) < 0 ) { perror( "getifconf" ); exit( 1 ); } for ( ifr = ifc.ifc_req; ifc.ifc_len >= sizeof( struct ifreq ); ifr = nextifr, ifc.ifc_len -= ifrsize) { /* * in BSD4.4, this returns an entry for every address * Associated with the if. including physical.. they * include a sockaddr which is VARIABLE LENGTH! * * Calculate the length of this entry. */ sa_p = &(ifr->ifr_addr); print_sa(&(ifr->ifr_addr)); /* print_sa(&(ifr->ifr_dstaddr)); print_sa(&(ifr->ifr_broadaddr)); */ ifrsize = IFNAMSIZ + sa_p->sa_len; nextifr = (struct ifreq *)((caddr_t)ifr + ifrsize); /* * Now get it's flags */ if ( ioctl( s, SIOCGIFFLAGS, ifr ) < 0 ) { perror( ifr->ifr_name ); exit( 1 ); } printf("FLAGS = 0x%x\n",(unsigned short)ifr->ifr_flags); printf("\n"); } if ( ifc.ifc_len != 0 ) { fprintf( stderr, "Funky gifconf return.\n" ); exit( 1 ); } (void)close( s ); return; } main() { getifconf(); exit(0); } --------------3F54BC7E1CFBAE3959E2B600-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 13:44:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14312 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:44:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14287 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:43:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02853; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:42:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804082042.NAA02853@rah.star-gate.com> To: dannyman cc: "Kenneth P. Stox" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: quickcam (was: Re: mozilla source) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:35:55 CDT." <19980408133555.22367@urh.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2850.892068179.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:42:59 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG components quality such as the tuner and the crystals that they use. If you guys are interested lets move the discussion to -multimedia. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 14:01:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17024 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:01:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16977; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:00:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09820; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <352BE57E.CA28B255@san.rr.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:00:46 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Konrad Heuer CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mysterious Extended DOS Partition References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Konrad Heuer wrote: > > I'm not sure whether this is the mailing list of choice to tell about the > problem I observed - but might be! Never cross-post to -questions and -hackers. Please follow up to -questions. > On a PC with 4 primary partitions (NTFS-OS/2 Boot Manager-FAT-FreeBSD) I > wanted to remove NT and to change its partition to an extended DOS > one (shame on me not to create a FreeBSD partition). I used FreeBSD's > fdisk to change the partition id to 5. The moral of your story is that if you want to create DOS partitions, use DOS' fdisk. Good luck, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 15:28:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02422 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:28:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02329; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:27:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@plutotech.com) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23449; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804082227.QAA23449@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: The Hermit Hacker cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Softupdate for 2.2.6? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Apr 1998 03:26:03 -0300." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 16:24:15 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> CAM: yes. > > Any ETA? 'm running at 10Mps right now, and its stable, but >I'd like to get it pop'd up to 40 :) I'm working to finish the BusLogic driver and then will turn my attention toward the port. It will probably be another week. >Marc G. Fournier >Systems Administrator @ hub.org >primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 15:30:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03135 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:30:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (ken@panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03069 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:30:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id QAA03554; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:29:59 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199804082229.QAA03554@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Summary: shopping for new video adapter In-Reply-To: <199804081726.TAA01069@yedi.iaf.nl> from Wilko Bulte at "Apr 8, 98 07:26:10 pm" To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:29:59 -0600 (MDT) Cc: ken@plutotech.com, mike@smith.net.au, dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wilko Bulte wrote... > As Kenneth D. Merry wrote... > > Mike Smith wrote... > > > > Wilko Bulte writes: > > > > Interesting summary, as I may shortly be in the market to replace > > [snip] > > > Xaccel 4.1, 1280x1024x32bpp - sometimes ~1900rpm, sometimes ~2030rpm > > > > I've got a number of patches to Accelerated X 4.1 applied. If > > indeed you only have 4.01, you might want to upgrade to 4.1 and get the > > patches. The description for patch 22 says that it increases performance > > for the Millennium II. > > > > I'm not sure about the color depth, it's either 24 or 32bpp. In > > the Accelerated X setup thing, I've got the colors set to "16M, Overlays" > > as opposed to "16M, Packed". So I assume that's probably 32bpp. > > xwininfo will tell you: > > Like: > > Width: 1024 > Height: 768 > Depth: 16 > Visual Class: TrueColor Well, I'm running 24 bit then. Not sure what the "overlays" do, though. Width: 819 Height: 484 Depth: 24 Visual Class: TrueColor Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 16:45:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11221 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:45:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (root@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11207; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:44:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bannai@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from bannai@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id QAA01092; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:44:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Vinay Bannai Message-Id: <199804082344.QAA01092@shell6.ba.best.com> Subject: Matrox MGA card!! To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:44:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am trying to setup X server on 2.2.6 and running into all kinds of problems. I have a Matrox MGA with 2MB. I went thru the xf86config setup and when I run startx, I get the server to work but the resolution and screen mod is crappy and I can't seem to cycle thru the various resolutions by pressing ctrl-alt-+ The version of Xfree that i am running is 3.3.2. It deletes the modes because they are outside of the horizontal and vertical ranges. It also says that it is a unknown Matrox chipset and reports 64k video ram. Can anybody shed some light on this? Should I replace the card? Thanks Vinay -- Vinay Bannai E-mail: bannai@best.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 17:00:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14186 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:00:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14047; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:00:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node73.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.73]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA05128; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:59:13 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980409085341.00bc7a90@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:54:03 -0300 To: Vinay Bannai , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: Matrox MGA card!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 04:44 PM 4/8/98 -0700, Vinay Bannai wrote: >Can anybody shed some light on this? Should I replace the card? That's an easy one, heheh. If you can afford for, let's say $30, buy a 2MB brandless S3 virge card. Works great ! > >Thanks >Vinay >-- >Vinay Bannai E-mail: bannai@best.com > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 17:35:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18427 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:35:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA18421 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:35:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr) Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA28700; Thu, 9 Apr 98 02:37:54 +0200 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 98 02:37:54 +0200 Message-Id: <9804090037.AA28700@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cryptic ld message (gcc bug?) X-Mailer: Emacs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id RAA18422 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This happens when I compile with "c++ -g -O", but not with only "c++ -g" or only "c++ -O". What do this means ? ld: /tmp/ccLf96521.o: unexpected multiple definitions of symbol `this:V25', type 0x27 Ì:484352: Definition of symbol `this:V25' (multiply defined) ld: /tmp/ccLf96521.o: unexpected multiple definitions of symbol `this:V25', type 0x27 Ì:484352: Definition of symbol `this:V25' (multiply defined) Here is the source program (the error disapear if you remove the last 3 lines!): #include class X { private: double **x; public: X () {}; ~X () {}; double data (int i, int j) {return x[i][j];} }; X *D; main (int argc, char **argv) { double e2, b; int i, j, i1, i2; D = new X; j = 20; double y[j]; i1 = 4; i2 = 8; e2 = 2; for (i = 0 ; i < j; i++) if (D->data (i, 1) < e2) break; for (i = i2; i < j; i++) { b = D->data(i, 0) - D->data(i1, 0); y[i] *= exp (b*b*3); } for (i = 0; i < i1; i++) { b = D->data(i, 0) - D->data(i1, 0); y[i] *= exp (b*b*3); } } Jean-Marc _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 18:44:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25944 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:44:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25870 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:44:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-150.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.150]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA24336 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:44:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA11524 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:31:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804090131.UAA11524@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Pax weirdness (bug?) In-reply-to: Message from Darren Reed of "Wed, 08 Apr 1998 21:20:51 +1000." <199804081119.EAA14080@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 20:31:30 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Try this: > > % cat /cdrom/info/info.* | zcat | pax -r -w -v tmpdir > > Be quick with ^C. > > Any ideas? Known bogon? Fixes? (Nothing intuitive, anyway.) What's so weird about it? It appears you have invoked "copy" mode using "-r -w" I think "cat /cdrom/info/info.[a-z][a-z] | zcat | (cd tmpdir; pax -r -v)" is what it takes to extract the files. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 18:44:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26218 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:44:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25874 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:44:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-150.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.150]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA30281 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:44:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA11488 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:20:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804090120.UAA11488@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) In-reply-to: Message from "Louis A. Mamakos" of "Wed, 08 Apr 1998 00:51:41 EDT." <199804080451.AAA12800@whizzo.TransSys.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 20:20:08 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Moved to -chat. "Louis A. Mamakos" writes: > > An interesting question is of the high-volume FreeBSD-based web servers, > how many would want to purchase the Netscape product rather than just > using Apache? Was in a position to buy a Netscape server for FreeBSD if was was available about 6 months ago. Needed commercial license to use SSL. Options appeared to be: 1) Stronghold, was about to increase in price from $995. 2) BSDI, $995 including Netscape Fastpath (is that right name?). What we ultimately did is "borrow" an SGI O2, which comes with the Netscape Fastpath product as part of the basic system. Never did advance to the point where we enabled https, The Powers That Be got cold feet ("you mean we have to buy our own internet connection?") -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 19:28:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02390 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:28:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from keep.scn.ru (keep.scn.ru [195.151.16.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02192; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:27:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smith@keep.scn.ru) Received: from quick.scn.ru (quick.scn.ru [195.151.16.33]) by keep.scn.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA29960; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:26:45 +0800 (KRSS) (envelope-from smith@keep.scn.ru) Message-Id: <199804090226.KAA29960@keep.scn.ru> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Vladimir N. Kovalev" To: Alexander Indenbaum Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:21:40 +0800 Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.5R and PPPD 2.2.3 .... CC: freebsd-qwestion@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <35244A26.435FE673@scn.ru> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Vladimir N. Kovalev wrote: > > > Hello ! > > Anybody know how to install PPPD 2.3.3 from > > ftp://cs.anu.edu.au/pub/software/ppp/ on FreeBSD 2.2.5R ? > > I can compile user-level PPPD code, but cannot rebuild the kernel after > > update. > > I compiled a few months ago pppd 2.3 ( the latest betta ) since I had > to dial to NT RAS and needed suport for MS CHAP and CBCP ( RAS callback > protocol ). > > I did not touch kernel at all and tracing weekly -stable. > In pppd I took kernel related files from pppd in -current. > > > In any case, it works just fine ( I'm heavy ppp user :{) ). > I can send you binary if you want. Many thanks ! > > Alexander Indenbaum > baum@actcom.co.il > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 19:45:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04531 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:45:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04517 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19448; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:45:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd019384; Wed Apr 8 19:45:13 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA23164; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:45:03 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804090245.TAA23164@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) To: tom@sdf.com (Tom) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:45:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: louie@TransSys.COM, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, robert@cyrus.watson.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tom" at Apr 7, 98 09:42:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > An interesting question is of the high-volume FreeBSD-based web servers, > > how many would want to purchase the Netscape product rather than just > > using Apache? > > I think there would be more interest in the other stuff that makes up > SuiteSpot like the integrated mail and news server with LDAP support > combined with a web interface. LDAP runs under FreeBSD, but even with all the patches, it's not *quite* the same as the NetScape, which runs a full v3 LDAP. The UMICH LDAP + Critical Angle patches + Terry patches is nearly a full v3 LDAP. But there is little subschema support, and the NULL basedn support/namingcontexts attributes are not happy. I *do* have a method of getting the basedn using "cn=config" with a stock server now, so that's not tottaly necessary any more. Oh yeah; I also have the following schema's: RFC2307 (use and LDAP server ti store NIS information) Netscape (same as the Netscape LDAP server schema) And a couple others I won't discuss yet. 8-). So it wouldn't be that hard. But that'd be a heck of a kick in the face as a reward for releaseing free software: "release one of your tools under a free license, and that will trigger us to duplicate all the rest of them". Be a bit of a bad thing for anyone in the future considering doing the same thing. I'll probably put the basedn autodetection code into the Mozilla port, when it firms up a bit, and make the "search root" part of the directory dialog optional (default = autodetect radio button, or something like that). Oh yeah. I have part of a getpwent/gethostent/getprotoent/... set of libc function replacements done (the Linux ones suck, and they don't compile anyway, and they're LGPL'ed) so that you can boot a FreeBSD box using an RFC2307 LDAP server instead almost all of the files normally found in /etc/passwd (the ones that NIS+ can serve, anyway). 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 19:52:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06729 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:52:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06708 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:52:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08649; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd008634; Wed Apr 8 19:52:15 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA23848; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:52:14 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804090252.TAA23848@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ipopd/imapd - -ERR Can't get lock. Try again or use IMAP instead To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:52:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804081137.EAA18764@hub.freebsd.org> from "Darren Reed" at Apr 8, 98 09:38:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Having compiled tkrat 1.1 and installed ipop{2,3}d as well as imapd > on FreeBSD 2.2.5, all three of the daemons fail to work with the > following error: > > -ERR Can't get lock. Try again or use IMAP instead > > Can anyone shed any light on why this might happen ? Is this the U of Washington code, or the CMU Cyrus code? The answer is different for them. I am most familiar with operating Cyrus, but most familiar hacking the U of W (I rewrote it in C++ on a lark; boy, does the code, as distributed, have cases where it can make calls to unitiialized pointers out the wazoo!). For the Cyrus case, this will happen if the /tmp directory is not accessible, if the semaphore is set during a crash (use the rebuild program; I forget the name, but it comes with Cyrus), or if the POP maildrop is already open by another user (POP protocol enforces single user access to maildrops). You could also look in the log files, since the reason was probably syslog'ed. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 22:22:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20241 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:22:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (antipodes.cdrom.com [204.216.27.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20152 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:21:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00322; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804090518.WAA00322@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: tom@sdf.com (Tom), louie@TransSys.COM, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, robert@cyrus.watson.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 02:45:03 -0000." <199804090245.TAA23164@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:18:21 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > An interesting question is of the high-volume FreeBSD-based web servers, > > > how many would want to purchase the Netscape product rather than just > > > using Apache? > > > > I think there would be more interest in the other stuff that makes up > > SuiteSpot like the integrated mail and news server with LDAP support > > combined with a web interface. > > LDAP runs under FreeBSD, but even with all the patches, it's not FWIW, this is just about ready-to-roll as a port, I'm just waiting to hear from the previous maintainer. > *quite* the same as the NetScape, which runs a full v3 LDAP. The > UMICH LDAP + Critical Angle patches + Terry patches is nearly a > full v3 LDAP. But there is little subschema support, and the > NULL basedn support/namingcontexts attributes are not happy. Sure. But is it "good enough" for the things we originally want(ed) to do with it? > Oh yeah. I have part of a getpwent/gethostent/getprotoent/... > set of libc function replacements done (the Linux ones suck, and > they don't compile anyway, and they're LGPL'ed) so that you can > boot a FreeBSD box using an RFC2307 LDAP server instead almost > all of the files normally found in /etc/passwd (the ones that > NIS+ can serve, anyway). getfsent/getmntent/getenv... ? > 8-) 8-). 8P How about the "millions of files" backend? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 22:23:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20585 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:23:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (antipodes.cdrom.com [204.216.27.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20557 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:23:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00354; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804090521.WAA00354@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: David Kelly cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pax weirdness (bug?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Apr 1998 20:31:30 CDT." <199804090131.UAA11524@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:21:13 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Try this: > > > > % cat /cdrom/info/info.* | zcat | pax -r -w -v tmpdir > > > > Be quick with ^C. > > > > Any ideas? Known bogon? Fixes? (Nothing intuitive, anyway.) > > What's so weird about it? It appears you have invoked "copy" mode using > "-r -w" Yup. Operator error it is. I couldn't imagine such a mode of operation being useful, so I assumed it did what I wanted instead. Error. > I think "cat /cdrom/info/info.[a-z][a-z] | zcat | (cd tmpdir; pax -r -v)" is > what it takes to extract the files. You can use substitution expressions to prepend a path to the begging of extracted names - I remember having done that much before. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 8 22:53:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23781 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA23771 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:53:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04596; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:53:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd004552; Wed Apr 8 22:53:10 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10707; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:52:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804090552.WAA10707@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 05:52:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, tom@sdf.com, louie@TransSys.COM, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, robert@cyrus.watson.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804090518.WAA00322@antipodes.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Apr 8, 98 10:18:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > *quite* the same as the NetScape, which runs a full v3 LDAP. The > > UMICH LDAP + Critical Angle patches + Terry patches is nearly a > > full v3 LDAP. But there is little subschema support, and the > > NULL basedn support/namingcontexts attributes are not happy. > > Sure. But is it "good enough" for the things we originally want(ed) to > do with it? Well, that would be "Yes". > > Oh yeah. I have part of a getpwent/gethostent/getprotoent/... > > set of libc function replacements done (the Linux ones suck, and > > they don't compile anyway, and they're LGPL'ed) so that you can > > boot a FreeBSD box using an RFC2307 LDAP server instead almost > > all of the files normally found in /etc/passwd (the ones that > > NIS+ can serve, anyway). > > getfsent/getmntent/getenv... ? I didn't do the fstab stuff, since it was dropped from the RFC2307 code. It's pretty trivial, actually, if you want it, but the schema for it is draft, not RFC'ed. In general, I made some code that took N schema entries and mapped them to N C structures. That's why I said it was better than the Linux code. 8-). > > 8-) 8-). > > 8P How about the "millions of files" backend? I haven't doen the backend. I've done some investigation, though, and have a .mk file that kicks out .so's as a first run at kicking out a schema subtree responsibility vs. .so mechanism. The backend isn't completed, though. I think moving BSD to one database is a better bet, for the long haul, but I could revisit the code, as necessary? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 01:01:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19750 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 01:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unionion.uion.edu.gr (unionion.uion.edu.gr [194.219.13.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA19524; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 01:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gvlachos@unionion.uion.edu.gr) Received: from localhost by unionion.uion.edu.gr; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Mar96-0202PM) id AA30914; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:58:51 +0300 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:58:50 +0300 (EET DST) From: Giannis Vlachos To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Pop server Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello I have install freebsd 2.2.2 release and i need to install o POP Server in this maschine. Where can i found that package for Freebsd. Does anybody can help me. Thanks in advance Giannis X. Vlachos Corfu,Greece To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 01:21:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA22916 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 01:21:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from odyssey.apana.org.au (odyssey.apana.org.au [203.11.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA22896; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 01:21:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dean@odyssey.apana.org.au) Received: from mushka.apana.org.au (mushka.apana.org.au [203.11.114.10]) by odyssey.apana.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA02217; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:16:33 +0800 (WST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980409161223.0069d3e0@odyssey.apana.org.au> X-Sender: dean@odyssey.apana.org.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:12:23 +0800 To: Giannis Vlachos , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG From: Dean Hollister Subject: Re: Pop server Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:58 09/04/98 +0300, Giannis Vlachos wrote: >I have install freebsd 2.2.2 release and i need to install o POP Server in >this maschine. Where can i found that package for Freebsd. > >Does anybody can help me. As root: cd /usr/ports/mail/popper make make install You then need to enable it in /etc/inetd.conf. Add the line: pop3 stream tcp nowait root /usr/local/libexec/popper popper -s Save the changes and exit. Then: kill -1 1 To reload inetd.conf. Regards, d. +--------------------------------------------------------+ | Dean Hollister, | dean@odyssey.apana.org.au* | | Region Co-Ordinator, | deanh@iinet.net.au | | APANA, | | | Western Australia. | *finger A/C for DISCLAIMER | +--------------------------------------------------------+ ST:VOY Kess: "I wish people would stop talking to me as if I'm still a child! I'm three years old now!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 02:34:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01314 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:34:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01185 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:33:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199804090933.CAA01185@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA150124379; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:32:59 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:32:58 +1000 (EST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, tom@sdf.com, louie@TransSys.COM, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, robert@cyrus.watson.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804090518.WAA00322@antipodes.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Apr 8, 98 10:18:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG how about a "netscape@freebsd.org" for this and all that will follow ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 03:41:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07783 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 03:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jsxnt1.jsx.co.id (jsxnt1.jsx.co.id [202.155.2.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA07727 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 03:41:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Sadi@jsx.co.id) Received: by jsxnt1.jsx.co.id with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BD63DE.63F39800@jsxnt1.jsx.co.id>; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:39:04 +0700 Message-ID: From: I Nyoman Sadiarta To: "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: subscribe Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:39:03 +0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 03:49:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08365 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 03:49:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [194.93.177.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08353 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 03:48:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03486; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:48:21 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Message-ID: <19980409134820.17393@ucb.crimea.ua> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:48:20 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Committers, wake up!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! A week ago I've sent PR conf/6226 of class change-request with patch attached. Would you be so kind to follow-up on this one? Thank you, -- Ruslan Ermilov System Administrator ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea 2426679 ICQ Network, UIN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 12:30:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25951 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 12:30:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25919 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 12:30:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00524; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 12:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804091927.MAA00524@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 05:52:59 -0000." <199804090552.WAA10707@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 12:27:22 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > *quite* the same as the NetScape, which runs a full v3 LDAP. The > > > UMICH LDAP + Critical Angle patches + Terry patches is nearly a > > > full v3 LDAP. But there is little subschema support, and the > > > NULL basedn support/namingcontexts attributes are not happy. > > > > Sure. But is it "good enough" for the things we originally want(ed) to > > do with it? > > Well, that would be "Yes". Cool. Let's move forwards then. > > > Oh yeah. I have part of a getpwent/gethostent/getprotoent/... > > > set of libc function replacements done (the Linux ones suck, and > > > they don't compile anyway, and they're LGPL'ed) so that you can > > > boot a FreeBSD box using an RFC2307 LDAP server instead almost > > > all of the files normally found in /etc/passwd (the ones that > > > NIS+ can serve, anyway). > > > > getfsent/getmntent/getenv... ? > > I didn't do the fstab stuff, since it was dropped from the RFC2307 > code. It's pretty trivial, actually, if you want it, but the schema > for it is draft, not RFC'ed. It's arguable whether it's worthwhile, but for completeness' sake it's better to than not to. > In general, I made some code that took N schema entries and mapped > them to N C structures. That's why I said it was better than the > Linux code. 8-). 8) So is this something you're just doing for fun, or do you have an ulterior motive? > I think moving BSD to one database is a better bet, for the long haul, > but I could revisit the code, as necessary? One database is desirable. The "millions of files" approach was a sop to POLA, and perhaps we'd be better off without it... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 13:01:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00266 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:01:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from prairiecomm.prairiecommunications.com (mail.prairiecommunications.com [208.141.230.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00235 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:00:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alk@pobox.com) Received: from 208.141.230.92 by prairiecomm.prairiecommunications.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id 2P498M9S; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:56:26 -0500 Received: (from alk@localhost) by pobox.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id PAA00332; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:02:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:02:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804092002.PAA00332@pobox.com> From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Face: O9M"E%K;(f-Go/XDxL+pCxI5*gr[=FN@Y`cl1.Tn Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Y'know, FBSD would get a lot more press if it changed its name to LinuxBSD. Just a suggestion. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 13:29:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04459 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:29:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nirvana.genesyslab.com (nirvana.genesyslab.com [204.94.142.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04441 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:28:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@genesyslab.com) Received: from es1840.genesyslab.com (abelits@es1840-nat.genesyslab.com [204.94.142.68]) by nirvana.genesyslab.com (Guinness/Extra Stout) with ESMTP id NAA22165 (envelope-from abelits@genesyslab.com); Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by es1840.genesyslab.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA02799; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:30:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: es1840.genesyslab.com: abelits owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:30:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Tony Kimball cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) In-Reply-To: <199804092002.PAA00332@pobox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Tony Kimball wrote: > Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) > > Y'know, FBSD would get a lot more press if it changed its name > to LinuxBSD. > > Just a suggestion. FreeBSD users and developers will get a lot more time for FreeBSD improvement and software porting if they reduced the number of holy wars between operating systems, they participate in. 2 is definitely realistic, but kinda lacking, 1 is almost perfect, 0 is the ideal that no one will ever reach, but everyone can dream of. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 13:40:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06110 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:40:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05960 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA00995 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma000993; Thu Apr 9 13:38:37 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA29720 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:38:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199804092038.NAA29720@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: PnP driver question To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:38:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Need a little help understanding how to write a PnP aware device driver. Suppose I have a PnP card that I want to do a self-test on before claiming that it's been officially detected. Since the attach() routine in struct pnp_device returns NULL, then this has to be done in the probe routine, right? In order to talk to the card to do the self-test, I have to set the PnP params and enable the card during the probe routine... My question is.. is this safe? Is this this right way to proceed? I'm wondering because in Luigi's paper "PnP support in FreeBSD", the example has a very simple probe routine (which just compares the unqiue identifiers), while the attach routine does all the initialization work. Thanks, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 13:52:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07789 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:52:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smgmail.smgmail.com ([204.170.177.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07752 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:52:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com (204.170.177.4 [204.170.177.4]) by smgmail.smgmail.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id 2A5GWZVB; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:47:41 -0400 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <352D5627@smginc.com>; Thu, 09 Apr 98 16:13:43 PDT From: Adam Turoff To: "alk@pobox.com" , "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 98 16:51:00 PDT Message-ID: <352D5627@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tony writes: > Y'know, FBSD would get a lot more press if it changed its name > to LinuxBSD. > > Just a suggestion. Methinks you mispelt BSD-NT or WindowsBSD or some variant thereof. :-) With all due respect though, the jihad should be against NT, not against Linux. Let an OpenSource OS gain mindshare from the big buggy boys, and then it's a downhill battle. OpenSource/FreeBSD-friendly reference of the week: ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/metacomputing.html They tried a Beowulf-class cluster and went with FreeBSD instead of Linux because of the raw network performance. Go figure. :-) -- Adam. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 13:58:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09210 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:58:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from general1.consumersedge.com (mail.personalogic.com [208.213.67.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09174; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:58:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dshanes@personalogic.com) Received: from SHANES by general1.consumersedge.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id 2PDPY120; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:43:08 -0700 Message-ID: <01f501bd63f7$597e4000$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> From: "David Shanes" To: "Brett Glass" , , Subject: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:37:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To All, This is the message that I sent Tim O'Reilly, the founder of O'Reilly and Associates. Next I will send you his response. David -----Original Message----- From: David Shanes To: tim@oreilly.com Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 11:45 AM Subject: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" >Mr. O'reilly, > I applaud ORA's endorsement of Open Source software. It is a huge step >to gather together the "forefathers" of some of the most popular and stable >software in use on the Internet today. > Personally, I use FreeBSD and was wondering if there was any particular >reason that the developers of FreeBSD were not included in your "Freeware >Summit". > FreeBSD has much to offer over Linux and has a huge developer/user base, >including Yahoo! and CDROM.COM. > >Sincerely, >David Shanes >_____________________________________________________ >David Shanes 7535 Metropolitan Drive >dshanes@personalogic.com San Diego, CA 92108 >Database Developer (619) 220-5800 x228 >PersonaLogic, Inc. (619) 220-5899 (fax) >http://www.PersonaLogic.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 14:09:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11277 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from general1.consumersedge.com (mail.personalogic.com [208.213.67.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11269; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:09:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dshanes@personalogic.com) Received: from SHANES by general1.consumersedge.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id 2PDPY1KC; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:09:36 -0700 Message-ID: <025301bd63fb$0b94bc80$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> From: "David Shanes" To: , "Brett Glass" , Subject: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:04:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here is Tim O'Reilly's response. David _____________________________________________________ David Shanes 7535 Metropolitan Drive dshanes@personalogic.com San Diego, CA 92108 Database Developer (619) 220-5800 x228 PersonaLogic, Inc. (619) 220-5899 (fax) http://www.PersonaLogic.com -----Original Message----- From: Tim O'Reilly To: David Shanes Cc: tim@oreilly.com Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" >The basic reason I didn't invite someone from FreeBSD was that >the group was getting too large; moreover, I don't really know >Jordan, where I do know the other folks. Still, it was probably >an oversight. > >I certainly focussed on the major contributions of the BSD >team to the whole movement. I did invite Kirk McKusick, but >he was out of town. (We had lunch the week before the >meeting to make sure I had his perspective.) While I >know that Kirk is no longer actively involved, he has >a perspective on the contributions of Berkeley UNIX and >where it is going. > >We plan to have followup meetings. I would definitely like >to have someone from FreeBSD come to the meeting. > >BTW, the main focus was on internet software, not on >operating systems. Basically, I was trying to counter >the idea that the important free software is on the desktop. >In fact, most of the Internet was built by the free software >movement. But not by people who think of themselves >particularly as "free software" advocates. > > >-- >Tim O'Reilly @ O'Reilly & Associates, Inc. >101 Morris Street, Sebastopol, CA 95472 >707-829-0515 ext 266, Fax 707-829-0104, tim@oreilly.com >http://www.oreilly.com http://software.oreilly.com http://www.songline.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 14:13:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12817 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:13:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from general1.consumersedge.com (mail.personalogic.com [208.213.67.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12758; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:13:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dshanes@personalogic.com) Received: from SHANES by general1.consumersedge.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id 2PDPY1KK; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:13:47 -0700 Message-ID: <026f01bd63fb$a11c9cf0$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> From: "David Shanes" To: , Subject: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:08:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It did not make it to the list the first time...(?) David -----Original Message----- From: David Shanes To: Brett Glass ; freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG ; hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 1:37 PM Subject: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" >To All, > This is the message that I sent Tim O'Reilly, the founder of O'Reilly >and Associates. Next I will send you his response. > >David > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Shanes >To: tim@oreilly.com >Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 11:45 AM >Subject: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" > > >>Mr. O'reilly, >> I applaud ORA's endorsement of Open Source software. It is a huge step >>to gather together the "forefathers" of some of the most popular and stable >>software in use on the Internet today. >> Personally, I use FreeBSD and was wondering if there was any particular >>reason that the developers of FreeBSD were not included in your "Freeware >>Summit". >> FreeBSD has much to offer over Linux and has a huge developer/user >base, >>including Yahoo! and CDROM.COM. >> >>Sincerely, >>David Shanes >>_____________________________________________________ >>David Shanes 7535 Metropolitan Drive >>dshanes@personalogic.com San Diego, CA 92108 >>Database Developer (619) 220-5800 x228 >>PersonaLogic, Inc. (619) 220-5899 (fax) >>http://www.PersonaLogic.com >> >> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 14:27:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16115 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:27:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16084; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00915; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:24:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "David Shanes" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Brett Glass" , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 14:04:11 PDT." <025301bd63fb$0b94bc80$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 14:24:18 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Here is Tim O'Reilly's response. ... > >BTW, the main focus was on internet software, not on > >operating systems. Of course, operating systems are the foundation on which internet software is built. And the promotional material for the "summit" made that much pretty clear in its placement of the word "Linux". If Tim would like an introduction to Jordan, may I suggest he gets a reference to me from Greg Lehey, and then I'll introduce him to Jordan. Of course, Jordan's not quite the jackbooted dictator(*) that Linus is, and other members of the FreeBSD effort have strong ideas of their own. (*) This is humour, for those of you that missed it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 14:41:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18481 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:41:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18429; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:41:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04541; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804092140.PAA04541@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 15:40:47 -0600 To: Mike Smith , "David Shanes" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 02:24 PM 4/9/98 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >Of course, operating systems are the foundation on which internet >software is built. And the promotional material for the "summit" made >that much pretty clear in its placement of the word "Linux". Indeed! In any event, it's good that folks are responding. As an industry and trend watcher, I have a compelling sense that the next few months will represent an "inflection point" -- that is, a period during which a major change in attitude and direction will be felt in the computer industry. Freely redistributable operating systems will suddenly acquire serious credibility and will no longer be able to be ignored by the mainstream media nor by developers. However, as the rise of Microsoft has shown, most users will fail to investigate alternatives and will adopt only those products with the largest installed base and the most press coverage. Thus, FreeBSD stands to suffer as much as to gain from the paradigm shift. If there is not an exceedingly strong effort to promote FreeBSD as superior to Linux, Linux -- which has a larger installed base -- will be catapulted to a dominant position while FreeBSD will see no noticeable increase in its user base or its popularity. FreeBSD needs to have a few "zealots" and "evangelists" -- just as Linux does -- to stubbornly insist that FreeBSD be included in every forum where Linux is discussed. It also needs some calmer proponents to take up the slack. Perhaps a new slot on the core team -- "Chief Evangelist" -- is in order. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 15:23:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23648 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:23:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23590; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:22:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02226; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:21:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804092221.RAA02226@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804092140.PAA04541@lariat.lariat.org> from Brett Glass at "Apr 9, 98 03:40:47 pm" To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:21:28 -0500 (EST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > As an industry and trend watcher, I have a compelling sense that the > next few months will represent an "inflection point" -- that is, a > period during which a major change in attitude and direction will be > felt in the computer industry. Freely redistributable operating systems > will suddenly acquire serious credibility and will no longer be able to > be ignored by the mainstream media nor by developers. However, as the > rise of Microsoft has shown, most users will fail to investigate > alternatives and will adopt only those products with the largest installed > base and the most press coverage. Thus, FreeBSD stands to suffer as much > as to gain from the paradigm shift. > I agree especially with your last statement. > > If there is not an exceedingly strong effort to promote FreeBSD as superior > to Linux, Linux -- which has a larger installed base -- will be catapulted > to a dominant position while FreeBSD will see no noticeable increase in > its user base or its popularity. FreeBSD needs to have a few "zealots" and > "evangelists" -- just as Linux does -- to stubbornly insist that > FreeBSD be included in every forum where Linux is discussed. It also needs > some calmer proponents to take up the slack. Perhaps a new slot on the > core team -- "Chief Evangelist" -- is in order. > The problem with FreeBSD, is that people working on FreeBSD are generally older, and find evangelism to be painful. Also, people using FreeBSD are busy using it, as opposed to worshipping it. How do we (really) deal with this? John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 15:23:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23670 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23615; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02232; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:22:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804092222.RAA02232@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 9, 98 02:24:18 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:22:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Here is Tim O'Reilly's response. > ... > > >BTW, the main focus was on internet software, not on > > >operating systems. > > Of course, operating systems are the foundation on which internet > software is built. And the promotional material for the "summit" made > that much pretty clear in its placement of the word "Linux". > > If Tim would like an introduction to Jordan, may I suggest he gets a > reference to me from Greg Lehey, and then I'll introduce him to Jordan. > Of course, Jordan's not quite the jackbooted dictator(*) that Linus is, > and other members of the FreeBSD effort have strong ideas of their own. > > (*) This is humour, for those of you that missed it. > They are still in the popular uprising phase, and aren't seeing the error of their ways yet. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 16:22:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01355 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:22:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org ([209.64.77.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01343 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:22:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@ninbox.ml.org) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06803 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:21:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <352D57FF.B583ABC1@ninbox.ml.org> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 18:21:36 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Free PCNFSD Client? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG With all this talk about using NetWare servers/clients, I never thought about the possibility of using PCNFSD... Has anyone seen a free PCNFSD client? Packet driver or ODI will do nicely. Thanks. -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 16:29:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02483 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:29:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02471 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:28:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01335; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804092326.QAA01335@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: kris@airnet.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Free PCNFSD Client? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 18:21:36 CDT." <352D57FF.B583ABC1@ninbox.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:26:20 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > With all this talk about using NetWare servers/clients, I never thought > about the possibility of using PCNFSD... Has anyone seen a free PCNFSD > client? Packet driver or ODI will do nicely. Thanks. The best way, bar none, to do file service for DOS/Windows systems with a FreeBSD system is using Samba. Microsoft have a new, functional version of their DOS client, WfW has had a stack for ages, and Win32 systems all talk SMB over TCP. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 17:01:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05369 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:01:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [209.81.9.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA05296 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:00:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id RAA20963 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:00:16 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:00:16 -0700 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199804100000.RAA20963@monk.via.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Sendmail oddities X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Now that I've moved over to 2.2.6, my scripts that use 'mail' or 'sendmail' to send outgoing mail no longer work. They keep trying to deliver the mail to a local user when the MX record for that domain points to a different machine. Here's an example: www.foo.com is a virtual host on one of our web servers. foo.com has an mx record that points to mail.via.net on the web server (www.foo.com and foo.com have IP addresses aliased to this machine) if I try to use mail to send a message to x@foo.com, it attempts to deliver locally and dies by saying that 'x' is an unknown user. Help! Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 17:02:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05560 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:02:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tok.qiv.com (efT1HEv5H4mj20RBB0rx3VniO8xwAB/N@tok.qiv.com [205.238.142.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05494; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:01:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdn@acp.qiv.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with UUCP id SAA14156; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:59:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA01084; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:48:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:48:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Jay Nelson To: "John S. Dyson" cc: Brett Glass , mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804092221.RAA02226@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: [snip] >The problem with FreeBSD, is that people working on FreeBSD are generally >older, and find evangelism to be painful. Also, people using FreeBSD >are busy using it, as opposed to worshipping it. > >How do we (really) deal with this? I suggest we don't evangelize, per se. I agree that most of use are older -- and it appears that most of use deal with real clients in the real world. The cost of an OS is the scheme of the commercial world is not a deciding factor. Support and reliability is a major factor. The reliability is as good or better than many commercial Unices, support is generally better from the standpoint of joe admin, since fixes and notices are available weeks and sometimes months before commercial Unices. The only two critical pieces missing are commercial recognition and visible support. Many of us in the field are already delivering support and we will continue. Visibility, though is another matter. I remember the first issue of the FreeBSD Newsletter and thought it was good. Parts of that could have been rolled into news releases, especially the Yahoo article on page one -- but I didn't see anything show up in the trade rags. And, that's where I think we can make some headway. Most corporate decision makers read the rags -- including Forbes. The rags are constantly whining about NT -- so NT gets the recognition. All the rags get are NT releases. What I suggest is this: First -- Jordan -- since you're the main man in this, put the pencil to the paper and figure out what it would cost to mount a program of professional news releases -- including customer profiles. Look at the number of CD-ROMS sold and divide cost by CDs and add to CD cost. Look at the newsletter and consider subscription. Most of us can afford some extra bucks and would be happy to spend it for the credibility. Think in terms of two to three times per month for the news releases. Second: poll the rest of us for contributions. Many of us are using FreeBSD in production environments. (Yeah, I'll volunteer -- even though I can't write worth a plug nickle.) With Yahoo and cdrom.com, all the ISPs out there and those of us in the commercial world, there _have_ to be some interesting stories. Third: for all of us who never bothered to register (which includes me) lets do it, so there is a reasonably accurate account of installed systems. Statistics don't mean much in the real world, but it's what made NT "great" and will help with the first point. The credibility will do us all a great deal of good. If we want the promotion and credibility though, we have to belly up to the bar and be willing to pay as well as contribute. If we're not willing to do that, we shouldn't be arguing the issue. -- Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 17:14:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08107 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:14:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mars.aros.net (mars.aros.net [207.173.16.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08077 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:14:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msanders@shell.aros.net) Received: from shell.aros.net (root@shell.aros.net [207.173.16.19]) by mars.aros.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA20841; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.aros.net (msanders@localhost.aros.net [127.0.0.1]) by shell.aros.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18399; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804100014.SAA18399@shell.aros.net> X-Attribution: msanders To: Joe McGuckin cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sendmail oddities In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 17:00:16 PDT." <199804100000.RAA20963@monk.via.net> X-Mailer: MH 6.8.3 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 18:14:07 -0600 From: "Michael K. Sanders" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [This belongs on -questions, no?] In message <199804100000.RAA20963@monk.via.net>, Joe McGuckin writes: > >They keep trying to deliver the mail to a local user when the MX record for th >domain points to a different machine. I'm guessing that you're using IP based virtual hosts, and Sendmail is being retarded and adding them all to Cw for you. Look at the 'DontProbeInterfaces' option. :: Mike :: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 17:50:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11782 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:50:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11599 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:49:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA16478; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd016476; Thu Apr 9 17:49:46 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id RAA14836; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:49:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804100049.RAA14836@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: Sendmail oddities In-Reply-To: <199804100014.SAA18399@shell.aros.net> from "Michael K. Sanders" at "Apr 9, 98 06:14:07 pm" To: msanders@aros.net (Michael K. Sanders) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG And also don't forget about "Best MX is local" > [This belongs on -questions, no?] > > In message <199804100000.RAA20963@monk.via.net>, Joe McGuckin writes: > > > >They keep trying to deliver the mail to a local user when the MX record for th > >domain points to a different machine. > > I'm guessing that you're using IP based virtual hosts, and Sendmail is > being retarded and adding them all to Cw for you. Look at the > 'DontProbeInterfaces' option. > > :: Mike :: > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 17:51:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11977 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:51:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11964; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:50:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03984; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:50:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "David Shanes" cc: "Brett Glass" , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 13:37:44 PDT." <01f501bd63f7$597e4000$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 17:50:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3980.892169423@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was told by Eric Raymond (whom I met briefly at the Mozilla party) that the *BSD people were deliberately excluded because there were too many BSDs and they didn't want to get involved in any political issues over it. I find these continuous allegations of the BSD world being gratuitously and needlessly "split" (even though each *BSD seeks to fill a different niche) by the Linux community to be rather tiresome considering the amount of division in their own ranks and can only see this as something of a double standard, but I've long since given up on any hope of fair play from this particular crowd. This and several other incidents of a similar nature has pretty much convinced me that this crowd would rather prefer it if we really didn't exist at all and is going to essentially conduct their operations as if we didn't. Oh well. Perhaps it *IS* time to go on the PR offensive here ("Why Linux doesn't work") since playing nice guys hasn't appeared to have won us anything but lots of nice comments from folks like Marc A. at netscape to the effect that "Linux is the only free OS alternative." I'm getting tired of that, and if it's going to take "breaking ranks" with the rest of the free OS community to get our own message out, maybe it's time. Jordan > To All, > This is the message that I sent Tim O'Reilly, the founder of O'Reilly > and Associates. Next I will send you his response. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Shanes > To: tim@oreilly.com > Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 11:45 AM > Subject: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" > > > >Mr. O'reilly, > > I applaud ORA's endorsement of Open Source software. It is a huge step > >to gather together the "forefathers" of some of the most popular and stable > >software in use on the Internet today. > > Personally, I use FreeBSD and was wondering if there was any particular > >reason that the developers of FreeBSD were not included in your "Freeware > >Summit". > > FreeBSD has much to offer over Linux and has a huge developer/user > base, > >including Yahoo! and CDROM.COM. > > > >Sincerely, > >David Shanes > >_____________________________________________________ > >David Shanes 7535 Metropolitan Drive > >dshanes@personalogic.com San Diego, CA 92108 > >Database Developer (619) 220-5800 x228 > >PersonaLogic, Inc. (619) 220-5899 (fax) > >http://www.PersonaLogic.com > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 18:03:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14992 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:03:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14824; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:01:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804100101.SAA14824@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804092221.RAA02226@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Apr 9, 98 05:21:28 pm" To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John S. Dyson wrote: > Brett Glass wrote: > > If there is not an exceedingly strong effort to promote FreeBSD as superior > > to Linux, Linux -- which has a larger installed base -- will be catapulted > > to a dominant position while FreeBSD will see no noticeable increase in > > its user base or its popularity. FreeBSD needs to have a few "zealots" and > > "evangelists" -- just as Linux does -- to stubbornly insist that > > FreeBSD be included in every forum where Linux is discussed. It also needs > > some calmer proponents to take up the slack. Perhaps a new slot on the > > core team -- "Chief Evangelist" -- is in order. > > > The problem with FreeBSD, is that people working on FreeBSD are generally > older, and find evangelism to be painful. Also, people using FreeBSD > are busy using it, as opposed to worshipping it. > > How do we (really) deal with this? evangelism is a full-time plus overtime job with lots of travel, lumpy beds, lousy food and irritating people. you gotta be crazy and well paid to do it. a volunteer "Chief Evangelist" would hvae to be indepentently weathly. anyone wanna volunteer? jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 18:14:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16468 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:14:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.16.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16457; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:14:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (kosnax-21.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.64.25]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.8.8) id UAA06791; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:14:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23108; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:14:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Message-Id: <199804100114.UAA23108@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:14:12 -0500 (CDT) To: toor@dyson.iquest.net Cc: brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804092221.RAA02226@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.2-971023-FreeBSD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "John S. Dyson" wrote: > > > > As an industry and trend watcher, I have a compelling sense that the > > next few months will represent an "inflection point" -- that is, a > > period during which a major change in attitude and direction will be > > felt in the computer industry. Freely redistributable operating > systems > > will suddenly acquire serious credibility and will no longer be able > to > > be ignored by the mainstream media nor by developers. However, as > the > > rise of Microsoft has shown, most users will fail to investigate > > alternatives and will adopt only those products with the largest > installed > > base and the most press coverage. Thus, FreeBSD stands to suffer as > much > > as to gain from the paradigm shift. > > > I agree especially with your last statement. > > > > > If there is not an exceedingly strong effort to promote FreeBSD as > superior > > to Linux, Linux -- which has a larger installed base -- will be > catapulted > > to a dominant position while FreeBSD will see no noticeable increase > in > > its user base or its popularity. FreeBSD needs to have a few > "zealots" and > > "evangelists" -- just as Linux does -- to stubbornly insist that > > FreeBSD be included in every forum where Linux is discussed. It also > needs > > some calmer proponents to take up the slack. Perhaps a new slot on > the > > core team -- "Chief Evangelist" -- is in order. > > > The problem with FreeBSD, is that people working on FreeBSD are > generally > older, and find evangelism to be painful. Also, people using FreeBSD > are busy using it, as opposed to worshipping it. > > How do we (really) deal with this? Such is true. I am a "newish" FreeBSD user and SuSE Linux reseller. I see a ready market for free "low cost" software in college bookstores, particularly those universities that have computer engineering and comsci departments. Part of evangelism is marketing and market presence. Having this OS on display at universities will attract a young audience the very people that are evangelizing Linux. Frank > > John > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 18:28:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19140 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:28:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xcf.berkeley.edu (scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA19108 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:28:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nordwick@xcf.berkeley.edu) Received: (qmail 25210 invoked by uid 27268); 10 Apr 1998 01:16:18 -0000 Date: 10 Apr 1998 01:16:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19980410011618.25209.qmail@xcf.berkeley.edu> From: Jason Nordwick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Frank Pawlak Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: fpawlak@execpc.com on 4/9/1998 to toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG <199804100114.UAA23108@darkstar.connect.com> References: <199804092221.RAA02226@dyson.iquest.net> <199804100114.UAA23108@darkstar.connect.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.32 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Frank Pawlak, on Thu 4/9/1998, wrote the following: > > Such is true. I am a "newish" FreeBSD user and SuSE Linux reseller. I > see a ready market for free "low cost" software in college bookstores, > particularly those universities that have computer engineering and > comsci departments. Part of evangelism is marketing and market > presence. Having this OS on display at universities will attract a > young audience the very people that are evangelizing Linux. > Frank > Would it be possible to have the Walnut Creek CDs in computer/bookstores, as I see the Linux CDs ? What would this take, just calling and marketing ? jay -- Join the FreeBSD Revolution. Support the FSF, buy GNU. http://xcf.berkeley.edu/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 18:35:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21576 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:35:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nirvana.genesyslab.com (nirvana.genesyslab.com [204.94.142.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21487; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:34:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@genesyslab.com) Received: from es1840.genesyslab.com (abelits@es1840-nat.genesyslab.com [204.94.142.68]) by nirvana.genesyslab.com (Guinness/Extra Stout) with ESMTP id SAA00985 (envelope-from abelits@genesyslab.com); Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by es1840.genesyslab.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA03154; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:37:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: es1840.genesyslab.com: abelits owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:37:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: David Shanes , Brett Glass , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <3980.892169423@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I was told by Eric Raymond (whom I met briefly at the Mozilla party) > that the *BSD people were deliberately excluded because there were too > many BSDs and they didn't want to get involved in any political issues > over it. I find these continuous allegations of the BSD world being > gratuitously and needlessly "split" (even though each *BSD seeks to > fill a different niche) by the Linux community to be rather tiresome > considering the amount of division in their own ranks and can only see > this as something of a double standard, but I've long since given up > on any hope of fair play from this particular crowd. While Eric Raymond may know better, I suspect that they were afraid of being involved in political issues over *BSD _vs._ Linux. That looks way, way more realistic, evan though still insulting. > This and several other incidents of a similar nature has pretty much > convinced me that this crowd would rather prefer it if we really > didn't exist at all and is going to essentially conduct their > operations as if we didn't. Oh well. Perhaps it *IS* time to go on > the PR offensive here ("Why Linux doesn't work") since playing nice > guys hasn't appeared to have won us anything but lots of nice comments > from folks like Marc A. at netscape to the effect that "Linux is the > only free OS alternative." I'm getting tired of that, and if it's > going to take "breaking ranks" with the rest of the free OS community > to get our own message out, maybe it's time. Please, before doing that try to make a list of goals that it is supposed to accomplish. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 18:37:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22244 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from euthyphro.uchicago.edu (euthyphro.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22152 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:37:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@phaedrus.uchicago.edu) Received: from phaedrus.uchicago.edu (phaedrus [128.135.21.10]) by euthyphro.uchicago.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA22750; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:37:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by phaedrus.uchicago.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA22045; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:37:00 -0500 (CDT) To: Adam Turoff Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) References: <352D5627@smginc.com> From: stephen farrell cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 09 Apr 1998 20:37:00 -0500 In-Reply-To: Adam Turoff's message of "Thu, 09 Apr 98 16:51:00 PDT" Message-ID: <87d8eqsbib.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.3/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Adam Turoff writes: > With all due respect though, the jihad should be against NT, > not against Linux. Let an OpenSource OS gain mindshare from > the big buggy boys, and then it's a downhill battle. Yes, but that's giving a lot of credit to linux. I tried to get my dad set up with linux (i was using fbsd at the time, but thought redhat linux would be a little easier and it was more likely that he'd run into someone else running it, etc). Thing was it sucked ass. He has so many problems with it that it totally turned him off to free software period. I'm afraid of Linux giving a bad reputation to freebsd... linux just has too many damn stupid windows-like problems (i.e., needing to upgrade such-and-such system library/binary to run a new app; breaking old stuff that worked; etc). I think FreeBSD needs to just spread it's reputation of being the more conservative system that is rock-solid and fast into the mainstream press. Plus then it will continue to attract the audience it wants. I just read an article by a co-founder of Yahoo about freebsd... this is the kind of thing that needs coverage. (though this article might be really old?) http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/6986/yahoobsd.htm -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 18:42:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23649 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:42:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23605 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA21847 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:42:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:42:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "David E. Cross" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Kernel Threads? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just curious to the status of kernel level threads in freebsd -stable or -current or -vaporware? -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 18:58:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27046 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:58:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nirvana.genesyslab.com (nirvana.genesyslab.com [204.94.142.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27024 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:58:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@genesyslab.com) Received: from es1840.genesyslab.com (abelits@es1840-nat.genesyslab.com [204.94.142.68]) by nirvana.genesyslab.com (Guinness/Extra Stout) with ESMTP id SAA01490 (envelope-from abelits@genesyslab.com); Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by es1840.genesyslab.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA03189; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:00:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: es1840.genesyslab.com: abelits owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:00:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: stephen farrell cc: Adam Turoff , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) In-Reply-To: <87d8eqsbib.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 9 Apr 1998, stephen farrell wrote: > Adam Turoff writes: > > > With all due respect though, the jihad should be against NT, > > not against Linux. Let an OpenSource OS gain mindshare from > > the big buggy boys, and then it's a downhill battle. > > Yes, but that's giving a lot of credit to linux. I tried to get my > dad set up with linux (i was using fbsd at the time, but thought > redhat linux would be a little easier and it was more likely that he'd > run into someone else running it, etc). Thing was it sucked ass. He > has so many problems with it that it totally turned him off to free > software period. As a user of both I strongly disagree with this explanation. Newbies or Windows users have with FreeBSD at least as much problems as with Linux, and users with any kind of Unix experience mostly have none in both cases unless strongly biased. > I'm afraid of Linux giving a bad reputation to freebsd... linux just > has too many damn stupid windows-like problems (i.e., needing to > upgrade such-and-such system library/binary to run a new app; breaking > old stuff that worked; etc). FreeBSD has this problem with at least the same extent as most of Linux distributions, and more than Red Hat with the sad, but probably still justifiable exception of Red Hat 4.2 -> 5.0 transition that involves the change of libc to libc6/glibc2 (BTW, more BSD-ish than libc5 that preceded it). Linux itself (as the set of kernel, libraries and system utilities, not the complete system) actually is remarkably independent from individual components' upgrades. > I think FreeBSD needs to just spread it's reputation of being the more > conservative system that is rock-solid and fast into the mainstream > press. Badmouthing Linux will unlikely give that impression. > Plus then it will continue to attract the audience it wants. > I just read an article by a co-founder of Yahoo about freebsd... this > is the kind of thing that needs coverage. (though this article might > be really old?) > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/6986/yahoobsd.htm -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 19:05:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28700 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:05:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28669; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:05:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16697; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:35:38 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA00781; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:35:37 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980410113536.65458@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:35:36 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith , David Shanes Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <025301bd63fb$0b94bc80$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Thu, Apr 09, 1998 at 02:24:18PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 April 1998 at 14:24:18 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >> Here is Tim O'Reilly's response. > ... >>> BTW, the main focus was on internet software, not on >>> operating systems. > > Of course, operating systems are the foundation on which internet > software is built. And the promotional material for the "summit" made > that much pretty clear in its placement of the word "Linux". > > If Tim would like an introduction to Jordan, may I suggest he gets a > reference to me from Greg Lehey, and then I'll introduce him to Jordan. > Of course, Jordan's not quite the jackbooted dictator(*) that Linus is, > and other members of the FreeBSD effort have strong ideas of their own. Tim knows about Jordan, despite his message. We've repeatedly tried to get them interested in BSD, but there's something at ORA that resists. I suspect it's not Tim (who lives in California), but somebody on the East Coast. I've just about given up with ORA. They seem to be relinquishing their position as the favourite UNIX publisher and chasing the NT crowd. I'm surprised they even had this "summit". Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 19:07:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29189 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:07:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29148 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:06:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id MAA02346; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:08:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804100208.MAA02346@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Kernel Threads? In-Reply-To: from "David E. Cross" at "Apr 9, 98 09:42:03 pm" To: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu (David E. Cross) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:08:21 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David E. Cross wrote: > Just curious to the status of kernel level threads in freebsd -stable or > -current or -vaporware? -stable won't be possible due to the amount of VM work that would be required. -current is a (stalled) work in progress. I'm working on the user-land end of that but the kernel end needs more work. ETA unknown. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 19:19:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01763 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:19:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01752 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:19:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01900; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:19:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199804100219.VAA01900@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Kernel Threads? In-Reply-To: <199804100208.MAA02346@cimlogic.com.au> from John Birrell at "Apr 10, 98 12:08:21 pm" To: jb@cimlogic.com.au (John Birrell) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:19:25 -0500 (EST) Cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Birrell said: > David E. Cross wrote: > > Just curious to the status of kernel level threads in freebsd -stable or > > -current or -vaporware? > > -stable won't be possible due to the amount of VM work that would be > required. > > -current is a (stalled) work in progress. I'm working on the user-land > end of that but the kernel end needs more work. ETA unknown. > The lack of progress on the kernel side is my fault :-(. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 19:25:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:25:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.16.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02509; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:24:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (kosnax-42.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.64.46]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.8.8) id VAA17587; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:24:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23203; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:23:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Message-Id: <199804100223.VAA23203@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:23:53 -0500 (CDT) To: jdn@acp.qiv.com Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.2-971023-FreeBSD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jay Nelson wrote: > On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > > [snip] > > >The problem with FreeBSD, is that people working on FreeBSD are > generally > >older, and find evangelism to be painful. Also, people using FreeBSD > >are busy using it, as opposed to worshipping it. > > > >How do we (really) deal with this? > > I suggest we don't evangelize, per se > Oh but we must!! > I agree that most of use are > older -- and it appears that most of use deal with real clients in the > real world. The cost of an OS is the scheme of the commercial world is > not a deciding factor. Support and reliability is a major factor. You hit on a key fact here and that is support. Please don't take what I am going to say as a criticism. Because FreeBSD users are older and thus more experienced I think it is often taken for granted that every user is at the same level of expertise, which is simply not the case. Further there is an attitude and in some ways correctly so that RTFM is the order of the day. There is a lot of truth to the addage that give a man a fish and you will have to feed hin forever, but teach him to fish and he will be able to feed himself. However, I have noticed some seemingly stupid guestions that go unanswered or ignored completely. I have asked several of these myself even after RTFM.... and just didn't get it so to speak. I am guilty of the terse answer RTFM mind set, and I had a lady administer a public flogging to me on this mailing list this past week because of it. It is understandable that the population of the newsgroup and mailing lists are busy, but to reach the newbe and a larger user community more patience with the user whose UNIX knowledge is at the orangutan level will be required. I have worked in the computer user industry for many years, and the one thing that I realized early on is the UNIX scares the hell out of most people. It has a reputation for be criptic, etc. What I would propose would be some volunteers to take these questions and patiently answer them to maintain user retention, and don't let them slip off to Linux becuse of the mis-apprehension that it is better supported. And that belief is out there partialy because of the volumes of books on the shelves devoted to Linux, most of which are nothing more than a statement of environmental waste in all the trees destroyed to provide the paper for them. Overall I believe that the support offered for FreeBSD is of a higher quality that that of the Linux newsgroups. There is a lot of bulljive passed for expertise on their NGs. So we have a strong base to build upon. We have a pedagree UNIX -- oops -- with a rich heritage not a clone. Some marketing and market presence will get the word out. No reason for FreeBSD to take the back seat to any OS. We have a great story to tell. ----------------snip > > What I suggest is this: > > First -- Jordan -- since you're the main man in this, put the pencil > to the paper and figure out what it would cost to mount a program of > professional news releases -- including customer profiles. Look at the > number of CD-ROMS sold and divide cost by CDs and add to CD cost. Look > at the newsletter and consider subscription. Most of us can afford > some extra bucks and would be happy to spend it for the credibility. > Think in terms of two to three times per month for the news releases. > > Second: poll the rest of us for contributions. Many of us are using > FreeBSD in production environments. (Yeah, I'll volunteer -- even > though I can't write worth a plug nickle.) I'll go along with this. I can't code but would be willing to do my part. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 19:38:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05314 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:38:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05256; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:38:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20817; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:37:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd020799; Thu Apr 9 19:37:56 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA22946; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:37:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804100237.TAA22946@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" To: abelits@genesyslab.com (Alex Belits) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:37:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, dshanes@personalogic.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alex Belits" at Apr 9, 98 06:37:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I was told by Eric Raymond (whom I met briefly at the Mozilla party) > > that the *BSD people were deliberately excluded because there were too > > many BSDs and they didn't want to get involved in any political issues > > over it. I find these continuous allegations of the BSD world being > > gratuitously and needlessly "split" (even though each *BSD seeks to > > fill a different niche) by the Linux community to be rather tiresome > > considering the amount of division in their own ranks and can only see > > this as something of a double standard, but I've long since given up > > on any hope of fair play from this particular crowd. > > While Eric Raymond may know better, I suspect that they were afraid of > being involved in political issues over *BSD _vs._ Linux. That looks way, > way more realistic, evan though still insulting. There are certainly some politics involved. Larry McVoy and Eric Raymond are examples of people who distribute their own software under GPL, and have a vested interest in promoting GPL over other licensing terms (though if you go look at http://www.opensource.org for the Open Source Software page, you will see that they state that the BSD license meets the necessary criteria for labelling). One real problem is that there are axes, other than the Open Source Software axe, that are being ground. Eric attributes much favor to the GPL in his "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" paper (written about his "fetchmail" program), and Larry disdains the BSD license for historical reasons (Larry was chief scientist at Sun when they killed SunOS off in favor of Solaris, and wouldn't let the SunOS code out). The division in Linux implementations is very real. I have been hand-holding someone through getting LDAP up on a Linux box, and other than the obvious configuration problems (mostly brought on by GDBM not working like the Berkeley LDBM), there are a number of problems that a purely distribution-centric. Specifically, the RedHat Linux 5.0 distribution implements sys_errlist[] more like BSD, and that makes it impossible to make an LDAP server that will compile both on RedHat 5.0 *and* other Linux implementations at the same time (some need the manifest platform falg SYSERRLIST_IN_STDIO and some *must not* have it). *BSD has a fragmented image problem because there isn't one kernel; but having one kernel hasn't saved Linux from fragmentation problems, like the one listed above (which is one of a class, not just a signle instance that isn't repeated). Spinning market perception is harder than pointing to conclusive technical information. > > This and several other incidents of a similar nature has pretty much > > convinced me that this crowd would rather prefer it if we really > > didn't exist at all and is going to essentially conduct their > > operations as if we didn't. Oh well. Perhaps it *IS* time to go on > > the PR offensive here ("Why Linux doesn't work") since playing nice > > guys hasn't appeared to have won us anything but lots of nice comments > > from folks like Marc A. at netscape to the effect that "Linux is the > > only free OS alternative." I'm getting tired of that, and if it's > > going to take "breaking ranks" with the rest of the free OS community > > to get our own message out, maybe it's time. > > Please, before doing that try to make a list of goals that it is > supposed to accomplish. I have to admit that I was a bit ticked off by one press release that stated "Linux is the freely available UNIX implementation", using "the" instead of "a". The was SunWorld Online (I believe) quoting Netscape higher-ups over the Mozilla release. I don't think that "attack ads" will do much but alienate people, but on the other hand, I would definitely like to avoid BSD ending up a second-class invisible. Netscape making Linux a reference platform, but not BSD, is rather much to take with grace and no visible indignation. What is the status on the CVS/CVSup Mozilla source repository that was being considered? That would certainly raise visibility in a positive way, even if the involvement was only in providing the technology to Netscape. You could still press-release it... If nothing else, BSD *needs* to have a Mozilla repository, if BSD is *not* a reference platform. Certainly "FreeBSD Mirrors Mozilla Sources Internationally" would be a good headline for a press release as well... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 19:39:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05811 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:39:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05789; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:39:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (kosnax-42.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.64.46]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id CAA25153; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:39:41 GMT Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23365; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:39:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Message-Id: <199804100239.VAA23365@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:39:30 -0500 (CDT) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: dshanes@personalogic.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <3980.892169423@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.2-971023-FreeBSD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > I was told by Eric Raymond (whom I met briefly at the Mozilla party) > that the *BSD people were deliberately excluded because there were too > many BSDs and they didn't want to get involved in any political issues > over it. I find these continuous allegations of the BSD world being > gratuitously and needlessly "split" (even though each *BSD seeks to > fill a different niche) by the Linux community to be rather tiresome > considering the amount of division in their own ranks and can only see > this as something of a double standard, but I've long since given up > on any hope of fair play from this particular crowd. > > This and several other incidents of a similar nature has pretty much > convinced me that this crowd would rather prefer it if we really > didn't exist at all and is going to essentially conduct their > operations as if we didn't. Oh well. Perhaps it *IS* time to go on > the PR offensive here ("Why Linux doesn't work") since playing nice > guys hasn't appeared to have won us anything but lots of nice comments > from folks like Marc A. at netscape to the effect that "Linux is the > only free OS alternative." I'm getting tired of that, and if it's > going to take "breaking ranks" with the rest of the free OS community > to get our own message out, maybe it's time. > > Jordan Amen!! From what you say, the time appears to have come. There are enough of them to eat us alive it we sit on our buts and just observe. A kick ass attitude can be a very good thing if things are indeed as you say they are. I am no politician, but that appears to be what is going on here. In that case the more noise and fsck you the better. Stake our ground and strut our stuff. Frank > > > To All, > > This is the message that I sent Tim O'Reilly, the founder of > O'Reilly > > and Associates. Next I will send you his response. > > > > David > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Shanes > > To: tim@oreilly.com > > Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 11:45 AM > > Subject: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" > > > > > > >Mr. O'reilly, > > > I applaud ORA's endorsement of Open Source software. It is a > huge step > > >to gather together the "forefathers" of some of the most popular > and stable > > >software in use on the Internet today. > > > Personally, I use FreeBSD and was wondering if there was any > particular > > >reason that the developers of FreeBSD were not included in your > "Freeware > > >Summit". > > > FreeBSD has much to offer over Linux and has a huge > developer/user > > base, > > >including Yahoo! and CDROM.COM. > > > > > >Sincerely, > > >David Shanes > > >_____________________________________________________ > > >David Shanes 7535 Metropolitan > Drive > > >dshanes@personalogic.com San Diego, CA 92108 > > >Database Developer (619) 220-5800 x228 > > >PersonaLogic, Inc. (619) 220-5899 (fax) > > >http://www.PersonaLogic.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 19:50:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08654 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:50:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.16.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08632; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:50:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (kosnax-42.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.64.46]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.8.8) id VAA21296; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:50:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23379; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:50:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Message-Id: <199804100250.VAA23379@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:50:09 -0500 (CDT) To: nordwick@scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU Cc: fpawlak@execpc.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[4]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <19980410011618.25209.qmail@xcf.berkeley.edu> X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.2-971023-FreeBSD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Nordwick wrote: > > Frank Pawlak, on Thu 4/9/1998, wrote the following: > > > > Such is true. I am a "newish" FreeBSD user and SuSE Linux reseller. > I > > see a ready market for free "low cost" software in college > bookstores, > > particularly those universities that have computer engineering and > > comsci departments. Part of evangelism is marketing and market > > presence. Having this OS on display at universities will attract a > > young audience the very people that are evangelizing Linux. > > Frank > > > > Would it be possible to have the Walnut Creek CDs in > computer/bookstores, > as I see the Linux CDs ? > > What would this take, just calling and marketing ? Yes that could be the case. It is hard to justify a personal visit with a relatively low cost product such as we are talking about here. The other issue is how to college bookstores view their shelf space. Normal stores run on profit dollars per square foot of shelf space, with the low and slow movers getting the boot. I wouldn't think that college bookstore are manage quite this tightly but could be wrong. Telemarketing or product on consignment maybe that way to get started. Another idea that I've had is that those of use that are going to college make a call on the bookstore manager and try to sell them on FreeBSD. There could be legal issues here with WC CDROM because someone acting as a sales person is an agent of the organization. CompSci and Computer Engineering Deptartment heads etc., maybe prime prospects for a freeby copy to seed that effort. Like any marketing effort this would have to be planed out a bit to get desired results. Frank > > jay > -- > Join the FreeBSD Revolution. > Support the FSF, buy GNU. > http://xcf.berkeley.edu/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 19:57:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10136 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10130; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (kosnax-42.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.64.46]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id CAA27782; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:56:58 GMT Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23388; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:56:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Message-Id: <199804100256.VAA23388@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:56:50 -0500 (CDT) To: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804100101.SAA14824@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.2-971023-FreeBSD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > John S. Dyson wrote: > > Brett Glass wrote: > > > If there is not an exceedingly strong effort to promote FreeBSD as > superior > > > to Linux, Linux -- which has a larger installed base -- will be > catapulted > > > to a dominant position while FreeBSD will see no noticeable > increase in > > > its user base or its popularity. FreeBSD needs to have a few > "zealots" and > > > "evangelists" -- just as Linux does -- to stubbornly insist that > > > FreeBSD be included in every forum where Linux is discussed. It > also needs > > > some calmer proponents to take up the slack. Perhaps a new slot on > the > > > core team -- "Chief Evangelist" -- is in order. > > > > > The problem with FreeBSD, is that people working on FreeBSD are > generally > > older, and find evangelism to be painful. Also, people using > FreeBSD > > are busy using it, as opposed to worshipping it. > > > > How do we (really) deal with this? > > evangelism is a full-time plus overtime job > with lots of travel, lumpy beds, lousy food > and irritating people. > > you gotta be crazy and well paid to do it. > > a volunteer "Chief Evangelist" would hvae to be > indepentently weathly. > > anyone wanna volunteer? The Linux community uses add slicks and authorized re-sellers and wholsalers tp promate their product. Take a look at www.caldera.com or www.suse.com There are also numerous links to software that runs on Linux which make the numbers of user look large and indeed they have a large user base. It would be interesting to see some estimate of the FreeBSD user base with some seperation of usage on servers vs desktops. This could be a ket ingredient in getting more commercial userland stuff ported to FreeBSD. Frank . > > jmb > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 20:04:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11519 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:04:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11493; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:03:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00452; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:03:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804100303.WAA00452@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804100239.VAA23365@darkstar.connect.com> from Frank Pawlak at "Apr 9, 98 09:39:30 pm" To: fpawlak@execpc.com (Frank Pawlak) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:03:01 -0500 (EST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, dshanes@personalogic.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > I was told by Eric Raymond (whom I met briefly at the Mozilla party) > > that the *BSD people were deliberately excluded because there were too > > many BSDs and they didn't want to get involved in any political issues > > over it. I find these continuous allegations of the BSD world being > > gratuitously and needlessly "split" (even though each *BSD seeks to > > fill a different niche) by the Linux community to be rather tiresome > > considering the amount of division in their own ranks and can only see > > this as something of a double standard, but I've long since given up > > on any hope of fair play from this particular crowd. > > > > This and several other incidents of a similar nature has pretty much > > convinced me that this crowd would rather prefer it if we really > > didn't exist at all and is going to essentially conduct their > > operations as if we didn't. Oh well. Perhaps it *IS* time to go on > > the PR offensive here ("Why Linux doesn't work") since playing nice > > guys hasn't appeared to have won us anything but lots of nice comments > > from folks like Marc A. at netscape to the effect that "Linux is the > > only free OS alternative." I'm getting tired of that, and if it's > > going to take "breaking ranks" with the rest of the free OS community > > to get our own message out, maybe it's time. > > > > Jordan > > Amen!! From what you say, the time appears to have come. There are > enough of them to eat us alive it we sit on our buts and just observe. > A kick ass attitude can be a very good thing if things are indeed as you > say they are. I am no politician, but that appears to be what is going > on here. In that case the more noise and fsck you the better. Stake > our ground and strut our stuff. > Frank > Each of 'em seems like a Borg nano-probe :-). (Re: StarTrek Voyager :-)). John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 20:20:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14563 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:20:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14554; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id XAA16545; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:19:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: David Shanes , Brett Glass , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <3980.892169423@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I was told by Eric Raymond (whom I met briefly at the Mozilla party) > that the *BSD people were deliberately excluded because there were too > many BSDs and they didn't want to get involved in any political issues > over it. I find these continuous allegations of the BSD world being > gratuitously and needlessly "split" (even though each *BSD seeks to > fill a different niche) by the Linux community to be rather tiresome > considering the amount of division in their own ranks and can only see > this as something of a double standard, but I've long since given up > on any hope of fair play from this particular crowd. > > This and several other incidents of a similar nature has pretty much > convinced me that this crowd would rather prefer it if we really > didn't exist at all and is going to essentially conduct their > operations as if we didn't. Oh well. Perhaps it *IS* time to go on Thats why I thought our own mozilla tree would be best, since they have never had any priority for releasing a BSD version of netscape until yahoo, and im willing to bet, screamed bloody murder to get them to make a port. I could be wrong but thats what I think happened. > the PR offensive here ("Why Linux doesn't work") since playing nice I think we SERIOUSLY need a PR plan of some kind. I think also we can take the gloves off and start kicking heads without getting nasty about it. We have several FACTUAL resources that they just CANT compete with. One being our ability to server better than ANY OS out there. We have proven this with yahoo and wcarchive and probably a few other places. They do not have such visable factual references to point at. Our stack is better. That is not a holy war comment thats just being based verifable facts. They can't argue with yahoo or wcarchive. The best they can do, and i'm referring to any OS vendor, is point at similar flagship places. Linux may have dejanews but there are no printed numbers that im aware of for them, or the like. So I mean you can get to the nitty gritty about performance with facts and just kill the banter of which stack might be better. I know this has been done to death on IRC and other low key places. But not in articles, not in highly visable places. > guys hasn't appeared to have won us anything but lots of nice comments > from folks like Marc A. at netscape to the effect that "Linux is the > only free OS alternative." I'm getting tired of that, and if it's > going to take "breaking ranks" with the rest of the free OS community > to get our own message out, maybe it's time. I second this! But the problemhere is that we have zero PR. I am not making light of jordans efforts at all. His trips, his talks, his free CD handouts to promote FreeBSD. But the fact is we dont have any PR that is making any difference to anyone but geeks. ORA flat out annoys me by pretty much refusing to do a FreeBSD book. The only publisher I can respect now would be addison wessley since they have seemed interested in publishing gregs book. I dont know what happened on that front. But im straying from my rant. We need PR. Can we get the PR we need? I'm not so sure. The simple fact since for as long as I can remember has been money. money to do drivers, moeny to hire coders, moeny for PR. But the simple fact is FreeBSD Inc, isnt seeing jack &@#$, money wise. As far as I can tell. They get minor donations from people im aware of that, and I thank those people. But it's pretty obvious big companies that are using FreeBSD are not very keen on donating the money we need to advertise in magazines, journals, etc.. I could be wrong but I just dont see it. The entire PR for FreeBSD is non-existant. Other than the IRC banter, the job jordan does ot promote it etc.. But were not putting ad's out all over, were not saturating certain places with info. And im not taking anyone to task. I know everyone involved in -core and commiters works very damn hard alot of the time to make FreeBSD what it is today. But how do we resolve these issues? How do we get funding for PR? Should PR take priority over SMP? Bascially we need a freaking game plan. It's a volunteer project, and thats good IMO, but we need an organized strong game plan for doing some serious PR now. We have lost out to many times. We took a hit a while back on the article comparing linux, bsdi, and freebsd cause we only recognized 64 megs of ram by default instead of 128. That hurt us. I'm just tired of loosing out to the satanic penguin all the time. They get precedence over us, they get more articles, people will publish THEIR books. Book wise were like the plaugue for some reason. I'm really teed off now. I think we do need to take the gloves off and start beating people over the head HARD with facts, and shoving FreeBSD down their throats. Jordan is right being nice gets us no where. nice guys finish last is the saying. and its becoming quite true. I think we need to form a game plan. We need to have alot of open dialogue of PR, marketing, strategy, etc.. We keep struggling and it does us no good. Were spinning wheels but going nowhere. Well maybe slooowly we are. But we need to get a game plan going and attack with teeth. But stick to facts. I think we just need a PR plan. We need to organize an assault :) Im done venting, im going back to my corner now, Chris -- "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 20:24:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15593 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itsdsv1.enc.edu (fw1.enc.edu [207.95.42.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15562 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:24:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owensc@enc.edu) Received: from itsdsv2.enc.edu (itsdsv2.enc.edu [10.1.1.9]) by itsdsv1.enc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA07344; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:21:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Owens To: Charles Owens cc: hackers list FreeBSD Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Terry Lambert > LDAP runs under FreeBSD, but even with all the patches, it's not > *quite* the same as the NetScape, which runs a full v3 LDAP. The > UMICH LDAP + Critical Angle patches + Terry patches is nearly a > full v3 LDAP. But there is little subschema support, and the > NULL basedn support/namingcontexts attributes are not happy. BTW.. thanks again for getting the LDAP patches out. I've been banging away on it heavily for over a month now and it's working quite well! I've now got a sort of "live" beta of it running, doing not much more than handling authentication for some web servers, but doing it well. > I *do* have a method of getting the basedn using "cn=config" with > a stock server now, so that's not tottaly necessary any more. Cool! > Oh yeah; I also have the following schema's: > > RFC2307 (use and LDAP server ti store NIS information) > Netscape (same as the Netscape LDAP server schema) > > And a couple others I won't discuss yet. 8-). > > So it wouldn't be that hard. But that'd be a heck of a kick in > the face as a reward for releaseing free software: "release one > of your tools under a free license, and that will trigger us to > duplicate all the rest of them". Be a bit of a bad thing for > anyone in the future considering doing the same thing. > > I'll probably put the basedn autodetection code into the Mozilla > port, when it firms up a bit, and make the "search root" part of > the directory dialog optional (default = autodetect radio button, > or something like that). > > Oh yeah. I have part of a getpwent/gethostent/getprotoent/... > set of libc function replacements done (the Linux ones suck, and > they don't compile anyway, and they're LGPL'ed) so that you can > boot a FreeBSD box using an RFC2307 LDAP server instead almost > all of the files normally found in /etc/passwd (the ones that > NIS+ can serve, anyway). > > 8-) 8-). Pardon my drooling, but will these libc patches be available any time soon? Moving past the beta that I have running now my plan is to do a broader implementation that handles NIS services (as you describe above) and eventually supporting other types of config info. I'd planned on using the RFC2307 approach... but hey! I see you've beat me to the punch! (Don't mind a bit - my result would surely have been a hack). I think I'll still do some hacking on getting a ypserv to LDAP gateway running to support my non-FreeBSD NIS-speaking boxen. Thanks, --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles N. Owens Email: owensc@enc.edu http://www.enc.edu/~owensc Network & Systems Administrator Information Technology Services "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's Eastern Nazarene College best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 20:35:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16744 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:35:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16683 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:35:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA20100; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA17627; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <352D9376.79BA2FB7@3skel.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:35:19 -0400 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: Mike Smith , David Shanes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <025301bd63fb$0b94bc80$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com> <19980410113536.65458@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, Just for the record, for a long time this whole 'debate' has made me sick. The two main issues here are market presence and maturity. Linux has an edge in market presence because it is 'this cool thing grown from the muck of the Internet'. Many people, myself included, started with Linux not because it was better but because it seemed like a cool new thing, and it has a public presence because of its lineage (however short it may be). You won't find much on any of the BSD derivatives because its been there so long that its like the water stain on the wall that you stop noticing. When a new stain shows up, it gets noticed. People in this business don't dig constancy, commitment and stability. It ain't so 'cool'. An OS that is by the ass of the pants has thrill and excitement. Linux lacks maturity, which is its Achilles heel and its marketing appeal. Linux also has folks like RedHat and Caldera that make Linux appealing, visible and accessible. We have not done much to enhance the appeal, visibility or accessibility issues. We can't fault ourselves because we are doing real work with our OS. But, confronted with the risk of being marginalized, we need to deal with these three things. We should also be careful about panning Linux. We will only catch shit for it. As we all know this whole thing is really about cosmetics not merit. Panning MS does little good aside from satiating our own need to bitch about that which is lacking in merit. The question of what to do has been initiated by others in this thread already. As I think about it, I get a sinking feeling that what we really lack is capital. Do we need a FreeBSD version of RedHat or Caldera that will market, sell, reinvest and support the OS in a more direct way? Do we dare suggest that with all that we have gained and earned from the use of FreeBSD, that we should contribute funds to the effort. Hell, Yahoo went up how many points in the market today? I have considered contributing funds, but unlike the great rel-eng that we have, there isn't a FreeBSD advancement organization. Anyway, that's enough broadcasting for the moment. Thanks for listening, Dan Greg Lehey wrote: > Tim knows about Jordan, despite his message. We've repeatedly tried > to get them interested in BSD, but there's something at ORA that > resists. I suspect it's not Tim (who lives in California), but > somebody on the East Coast. > > I've just about given up with ORA. They seem to be relinquishing > their position as the favourite UNIX publisher and chasing the NT > crowd. I'm surprised they even had this "summit". > > Greg > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 20:36:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16919 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16914 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:36:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09104 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:36:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804100336.UAA09104@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 20:36:16 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I thought we had a volunteer? If it is not up tonite then lets get going !! Tnks, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 20:44:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18498 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:44:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18384; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:44:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA20113; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA17710; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <352D95AA.6F549027@3skel.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:44:42 -0400 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Pawlak CC: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <199804100256.VAA23388@darkstar.connect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Frank Pawlak wrote: > It would be interesting to see some estimate of the FreeBSD user base > with some seperation of usage on servers vs desktops. This could be a > ket ingredient in getting more commercial userland stuff ported to > FreeBSD. We should conduct a census! Put it on the website, in the FTP banners on wcarchive, in the CDROMs. Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 20:46:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19174 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:46:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19039 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:45:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14358; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:50:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980409235002.26337@vmunix.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:50:02 -0400 From: Mark Mayo To: Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? References: <199804100336.UAA09104@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804100336.UAA09104@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Thu, Apr 09, 1998 at 08:36:16PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 09, 1998 at 08:36:16PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I thought we had a volunteer? > > If it is not up tonite then lets get going !! Indeed. Time is very critical here - we need to be able to push the "FreeBSD provides world-wide mirroring and source code revision architecture for Mozilla.org" PR headlines. Get this up right away, spam the news group at mozilla.org, and send out PRs to news.com, infoworld.com, etc, etc.. -Mark P.S If someone needs help in writing the news release, I'm available. I can also provide a CVS server, but that's not the point here. Being able to show that the FreeBSD CVS system provided instant world-wide mirroring in X countries is an important component of the PR.. > > > Tnks, > Amancio > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 20:50:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21375 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:50:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21309; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:50:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA12675; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:49:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:49:46 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: David Shanes , Brett Glass , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <3980.892169423@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I was told by Eric Raymond (whom I met briefly at the Mozilla party) > that the *BSD people were deliberately excluded because there were too > many BSDs and they didn't want to get involved in any political issues > over it. I find these continuous allegations of the BSD world being > gratuitously and needlessly "split" (even though each *BSD seeks to > fill a different niche) by the Linux community to be rather tiresome > considering the amount of division in their own ranks and can only see > this as something of a double standard, but I've long since given up > on any hope of fair play from this particular crowd. > > This and several other incidents of a similar nature has pretty much > convinced me that this crowd would rather prefer it if we really > didn't exist at all and is going to essentially conduct their > operations as if we didn't. Oh well. Perhaps it *IS* time to go on > the PR offensive here ("Why Linux doesn't work") since playing nice > guys hasn't appeared to have won us anything but lots of nice comments > from folks like Marc A. at netscape to the effect that "Linux is the > only free OS alternative." I'm getting tired of that, and if it's > going to take "breaking ranks" with the rest of the free OS community > to get our own message out, maybe it's time. > > Jordan Hot damn. Where do I sign up? "FreeBSD Marketing: Who Do You Want To Picket And Beat To Death With Stats Today?" Bad Matt, back in the closet... *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:04:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23910 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:04:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [206.156.231.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23898 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:04:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@elvis.mu.org) Received: (from paul@localhost) by elvis.mu.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28442; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:04:06 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from paul) Message-ID: <19980409230406.31050@mu.org> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:04:06 -0500 From: Paul Saab To: Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? References: <199804100336.UAA09104@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199804100336.UAA09104@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Thu, Apr 09, 1998 at 08:36:16PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I thought that Jordan put it on bento.cdrom.com(?) so that is why I didn't put one up. Paul Amancio Hasty (hasty@rah.star-gate.com) wrote: > > I thought we had a volunteer? > > If it is not up tonite then lets get going !! > > > Tnks, > Amancio > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:15:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26319 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:15:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA26276; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA11657; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:13:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:13:30 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: "John S. Dyson" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804092221.RAA02226@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > The problem with FreeBSD, is that people working on FreeBSD are generally > older, and find evangelism to be painful. Also, people using FreeBSD > are busy using it, as opposed to worshipping it. This is why I picked the 386BSD path rather than Linux back in, oh, I guess it must have been early 1993. I was in the process of ditching the Amiga as a platform *and* the wretched evangelical user base. It may sound silly, but I chose BSD because the people tinkering with it seemed, on the whole, to be more mature than the Linux crowd. My decision to not take the NetBSD fork in the road was similarly inspired. -john To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:17:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26973 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:17:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tok.qiv.com (d2rDGVSllxU/4c9Fn0SCaAdWiYNtUOPl@tok.qiv.com [205.238.142.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA26894; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:16:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdn@acp.qiv.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with UUCP id XAA14623; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:14:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01481; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:04:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:04:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Jay Nelson To: Frank Pawlak cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804100223.VAA23203@darkstar.connect.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Frank Pawlak wrote: >Jay Nelson wrote: >> On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> >The problem with FreeBSD, is that people working on FreeBSD are >> generally >> >older, and find evangelism to be painful. Also, people using FreeBSD >> >are busy using it, as opposed to worshipping it. >> > >> >How do we (really) deal with this? >> >> I suggest we don't evangelize, per se >> > >Oh but we must!! I'm not convinced we must. The evangelical furor is normally associated with the more inexperienced "true believers" than mission critical. >> I agree that most of use are >> older -- and it appears that most of use deal with real clients in the >> real world. The cost of an OS is the scheme of the commercial world is >> not a deciding factor. Support and reliability is a major factor. > >You hit on a key fact here and that is support. Please don't take what >I am going to say as a criticism. Because FreeBSD users are older and >thus more experienced I think it is often taken for granted that every >user is at the same level of expertise, which is simply not the case. >Further there is an attitude and in some ways correctly so that RTFM is >the order of the day. There is a lot of truth to the addage that give a >man a fish and you will have to feed hin forever, but teach him to fish >and he will be able to feed himself. However, I have noticed some >seemingly stupid guestions that go unanswered or ignored completely. I >have asked several of these myself even after RTFM.... and just didn't >get it so to speak. I am guilty of the terse answer RTFM mind set, and >I had a lady administer a public flogging to me on this mailing list >this past week because of it. I don't think it is taken for granted that all users are experienced as much as lack of time or experience of those on the list. For example, I see a number of questions go by about sound cards. I don't use sound cards, so I have nothing to contribute. >It is understandable that the population of the newsgroup and mailing >lists are busy, but to reach the newbe and a larger user community more >patience with the user whose UNIX knowledge is at the orangutan level >will be required. I have worked in the computer user industry for many >years, and the one thing that I realized early on is the UNIX scares the >hell out of most people. It has a reputation for be criptic, etc. What >I would propose would be some volunteers to take these questions and >patiently answer them to maintain user retention, and don't let them >slip off to Linux becuse of the mis-apprehension that it is better >supported. And that belief is out there partialy because of the volumes >of books on the shelves devoted to Linux, most of which are nothing more >than a statement of environmental waste in all the trees destroyed to >provide the paper for them. I can't really disagree -- but the recognition that counts comes from corporate -- not the user. Corporate doesn't read the Linux books and doesn't really care how cryptic and OS may be. I don't think Unix will ever make inroads on the desktop, largely because of the perceptions you mention until there is a clear corporate reason to do so. As far as the newbie goes, I don't have a good suggestion. A multiuser system is inherently more complex than a single user executive. It requires more of a user who wants to enjoy the benefits. Many don't want to invest the effort. >Overall I believe that the support offered for FreeBSD is of a higher >quality that that of the Linux newsgroups. There is a lot of bulljive >passed for expertise on their NGs. So we have a strong base to build >upon. We have a pedagree UNIX -- oops -- with a rich heritage not a >clone. Some marketing and market presence will get the word out. No >reason for FreeBSD to take the back seat to any OS. We have a great >story to tell. The consideration comes down to whom we wish to appeal (and even why we want to appeal.) I think an appeal to corporate via press releases and trade rags is the best approach. -- Jay >----------------snip >> >> What I suggest is this: >> >> First -- Jordan -- since you're the main man in this, put the pencil >> to the paper and figure out what it would cost to mount a program of >> professional news releases -- including customer profiles. Look at the >> number of CD-ROMS sold and divide cost by CDs and add to CD cost. Look >> at the newsletter and consider subscription. Most of us can afford >> some extra bucks and would be happy to spend it for the credibility. >> Think in terms of two to three times per month for the news releases. >> >> Second: poll the rest of us for contributions. Many of us are using >> FreeBSD in production environments. (Yeah, I'll volunteer -- even >> though I can't write worth a plug nickle.) > >I'll go along with this. I can't code but would be willing to do my >part. > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:17:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27142 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:17:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.16.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27026; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:17:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from execpc.com (lafra-118.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.86.118]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.8.8) id XAA03041; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:17:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by execpc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00268; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:17:05 -0500 From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980409231705.ZM267@execpc.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:17:05 -0500 In-Reply-To: "John S. Dyson" "Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet"" (Apr 9, 10:03pm) References: <199804100303.WAA00452@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: "John S. Dyson" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, dshanes@personalogic.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Apr 9, 10:03pm, John S. Dyson wrote: > Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the In > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > I was told by Eric Raymond (whom I met briefly at the Mozilla party) > > > that the *BSD people were deliberately excluded because there were too > > > many BSDs and they didn't want to get involved in any political issues > > > over it. I find these continuous allegations of the BSD world being > > > gratuitously and needlessly "split" (even though each *BSD seeks to > > > fill a different niche) by the Linux community to be rather tiresome > > > considering the amount of division in their own ranks and can only see > > > this as something of a double standard, but I've long since given up > > > on any hope of fair play from this particular crowd. > > > > > > This and several other incidents of a similar nature has pretty much > > > convinced me that this crowd would rather prefer it if we really > > > didn't exist at all and is going to essentially conduct their > > > operations as if we didn't. Oh well. Perhaps it *IS* time to go on > > > the PR offensive here ("Why Linux doesn't work") since playing nice > > > guys hasn't appeared to have won us anything but lots of nice comments > > > from folks like Marc A. at netscape to the effect that "Linux is the > > > only free OS alternative." I'm getting tired of that, and if it's > > > going to take "breaking ranks" with the rest of the free OS community > > > to get our own message out, maybe it's time. > > > > > > Jordan > > > > Amen!! From what you say, the time appears to have come. There are > > enough of them to eat us alive it we sit on our buts and just observe. > > A kick ass attitude can be a very good thing if things are indeed as you > > say they are. I am no politician, but that appears to be what is going > > on here. In that case the more noise and fsck you the better. Stake > > our ground and strut our stuff. > > Frank > > > Each of 'em seems like a Borg nano-probe :-). (Re: StarTrek Voyager :-)). > > John >-- End of excerpt from John S. Dyson I'll have to have my wife give me a translation of this. She is the StarTrek person in the family. I barely know what a Borg is let alone a nano-probe. Regards, Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:24:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29961 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:24:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29942; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:24:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09598; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:24:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804100424.WAA09598@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:23:54 -0600 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "David Shanes" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3980.892169423@time.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 05:50 PM 4/9/98 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >I was told by Eric Raymond (whom I met briefly at the Mozilla party) >that the *BSD people were deliberately excluded because there were too >many BSDs and they didn't want to get involved in any political issues >over it. This is a lame excuse. The various *BSD groups are far more well disposed toward one another than, say, Larry Wall and his "Artistic License" crowd is toward the Linux zealots. >This and several other incidents of a similar nature has pretty much >convinced me that this crowd would rather prefer it if we really >didn't exist at all and is going to essentially conduct their >operations as if we didn't. Oh well. Perhaps it *IS* time to go on >the PR offensive here ("Why Linux doesn't work") since playing nice >guys hasn't appeared to have won us anything but lots of nice comments >from folks like Marc A. at netscape to the effect that "Linux is the >only free OS alternative." I'm getting tired of that, and if it's >going to take "breaking ranks" with the rest of the free OS community >to get our own message out, maybe it's time. I sure think it's time. Free software is on the ascendent; it's now or never. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:28:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01106 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:28:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01101; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:28:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09649; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:28:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804100428.WAA09649@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:28:12 -0600 To: Greg Lehey , Mike Smith , David Shanes From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980410113536.65458@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com> <025301bd63fb$0b94bc80$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:35 AM 4/10/98 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >Tim knows about Jordan, despite his message. We've repeatedly tried >to get them interested in BSD, but there's something at ORA that >resists. It is, as usual, the "almighty dollar." ORA sees the Linux market as larger, and therefore favors it. They once explained to me that they had no interest in porting their Windows and NT Web server or conferencing software to UNIX for the same reason. >I've just about given up with ORA. They seem to be relinquishing >their position as the favourite UNIX publisher and chasing the NT >crowd. More proof, alas, that they're chasing what they believe to be the largest market. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:29:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01329 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:29:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01185; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:29:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA11702; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:28:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:28:54 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Dan Janowski cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <352D95AA.6F549027@3skel.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Dan Janowski wrote: > We should conduct a census! Put it on the website, in the FTP banners on > wcarchive, in the CDROMs. Well, ya, but the results would rate next to worthless in terms of statistical validity. Good demographic studies are pretty hard to do when you don't know the extent of your population, and asking people to register isn't going to define it for you. I did one random sampling of mailing list subscribers (I defined my population as mailing list subscribers) and sent a small survey regarding the FreeBSD web site. The response rate was in the negihborhood of two to three percent. Completely useless. 60 to 70 percent is usually considered the bottom end of acceptable in survey research. I got much more data from a form on the website, but the validity of that data is highly questionable for lots of reasons outlined in any survey research methods textbook. BUT, a good demographic study of FreeBSD users would be extremely valuable to have...so all you statistics junkies, start thinking of a way to come up with a *representative* sample the user population. -john To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:38:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05049 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:38:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send1c.yahoomail.com (send1c.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA04560 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:37:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adamfurman@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19980410043816.14011.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Received: from [199.224.7.122] by send1c; Thu, 09 Apr 1998 21:38:16 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:38:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Furman Reply-To: afurman@amf.net Subject: wd0 Kernel Errors To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I started getting these errors messages in my message log the other night. I dediced the box should be rebooted and I do so. After I rebooted the box the box lasted for no more then 1 hour. After that it stayed in a hanging mode for the rest of the night. In the morning I did the same thing and rebooted the box and again lasted for no more then 1 hour. It started to go down in time. I would like to know if this is the hard drive or the motherboard IDE controller built right into the board can be going. PLEASE let me know. Also while this was all happening the drive can no longer boot on it own. Can you please tell me how to fix that also. Must use a boot disk. The version of FreeBSD is 2.2.5 Stable running on a Penitum 133 with 128megs of Ram and a 7GIG Maxtor Drive about 3-4 months old. WIth the motherboard being about 2 1/2 years old. Please send back to my YAHOO and AMF.net email address. Thanks Adam Apr 8 21:14:11 delsol /kernel: wd0a: wdstart: timeout waiting forDRQ writing fsbn 131142 of 131136-131151 (wd0 bn 655430; cn 693 tn 8 sn 41)wd0: status 50 error 0 Apr 8 21:14:15 delsol /kernel: wd0: interrupt timeout: Apr 8 21:14:30 delsol /kernel: wd0: status 50 error 0 Apr 8 21:14:30 delsol /kernel: wd0s1e: wdstart: timeout waiting forDRQ writing fsbn 65602 of 65600-65615 (wd0s1 bn 794690; cn 840 tn 14 sn 8)wd0: status 50 error 1 Apr 8 21:14:30 delsol /kernel: wd0: interrupt timeout: Apr 8 21:14:45 delsol /kernel: wd0: status 50 error 1 Apr 8 21:14:45 delsol /kernel: wd0s1e: wdstart: timeout waiting forDRQ writing fsbn 65610 of 65600-65615 (wd0s1 bn 794698; cn 840 tn 14 sn 16)wd0: status 50 error 1 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:42:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06077 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:42:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ConSys.COM (consys.com [209.60.202.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06063 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:42:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rcarter@psf.Pinyon.ORG) Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (ip-17-061.prc.primenet.com [207.218.17.61]) by ConSys.COM (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA23284; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:41:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by psf.Pinyon.ORG (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12665; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:40:26 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199804100440.VAA12665@psf.Pinyon.ORG> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: "John S. Dyson" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 17:21:28 EST." <199804092221.RAA02226@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 21:40:26 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The problem with FreeBSD, is that people working on FreeBSD are generally > older, and find evangelism to be painful. Also, people using FreeBSD ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ John, nobody but paranoid psychotics run FreeBSD, DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND EXT2FS DOES THE RIGHT THING!!!!! ahem. (with lotsa apologies :-) Maybe the mass media is just another venue, different from usenet... And mass media sits on a whole lotta of the web these days. Evangelism counts for alot... Russell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:43:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06756 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:43:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06599; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:43:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03386; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:42:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804100442.XAA03386@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <980409231705.ZM267@execpc.com> from Frank Pawlak at "Apr 9, 98 11:17:05 pm" To: fpawlak@execpc.com (Frank Pawlak) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:42:25 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dshanes@personalogic.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Apr 9, 10:03pm, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > > > Each of 'em seems like a Borg nano-probe :-). (Re: StarTrek Voyager :-)). > > > > John > >-- End of excerpt from John S. Dyson > > I'll have to have my wife give me a translation of this. She is the StarTrek > person in the family. I barely know what a Borg is let alone a nano-probe. > Regards, > Frank > They are little cyborg entities flowing around in Borg bloodstreams used to affect the assimilation process among other things. I am attributing the typical individual zealot as being about as important as one of the nano-probes (to the larger collective -- and will be sacrificed if it is valuable to the collective), all together they have a significant effect. This is an assimilation process, where it is a war between the Linux world and the rest of software. It just seems that Microsoft is the big target, but don't be tricked into thinking that war is "freedom" vs. "domination." Linux and Microsoft are various forms of domination at war. Microsoft wants to have all your money, while the GPL movement wants to socialize inventiveness. The GPL is not Netscape's friend. Their upper mgmt doesn't appear to realize it. We need to continue growing the free software movement (and the associated freedom of individuals), and not be left out in the cold. The Linux thing is NOT a free software movement, but is an evangelistic pseudo-religion. It wouldn't suprise me that the same people who might be susceptible to a cult are the same people evangelizing whatever OS that they have adopted. No OS is immune to this, but Linux appears to have more than it's fair share. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:47:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07940 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:47:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07934 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:47:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09514; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:47:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804100447.VAA09514@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Paul Saab cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:04:06 CDT." <19980409230406.31050@mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 21:47:21 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, has this been announced on netscape.public.mozilla.general or netscape.public.mozilla.announce? Is there a web page http://www.freebsd.org/Mozilla with instructions or pointers to the FreeBSD repository? Also, I think it would be most cool to make a binary release of Mozilla compiled with Qt . This will allow users without a motif library to use netscape and not have download 10MB binaries. Besides the Qt implementation is smaller. ---- QtScape is available at http://www.troll.no/qtscape/. It is presented as a Qt demonstration program only, not a Troll Tech product. The full source code is released under the Netscape Public License, which allows free distribution and modification. Further information about the release of Netscape Communicator is available at http://www.mozilla.org. ----- Tnks, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:55:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09762 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:55:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.realtime.net (mail1.realtime.net [205.238.128.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA09754 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:55:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jktheowl@bga.com) Received: (qmail 38734 invoked from network); 10 Apr 1998 04:55:20 -0000 Received: from zoom.realtime.net (HELO zoom.bga.com) (root@205.238.128.40) by mail1.realtime.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 1998 04:55:20 -0000 Received: from barnowl (apm5-185.realtime.net [205.238.146.185]) by zoom.bga.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA07760; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:55:11 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:01:50 -0500 (CDT) From: John Kenagy X-Sender: jktheowl@barnowl Reply-To: John Kenagy To: Open Systems Networking cc: questions freebsd , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My response to everything bing said. Yesss!!! To all!!! I'm an olde fart ex-system flogger from way back. All of what everyone is saying is needed. It is marketing, marketing, marketing.... It does *not matter* how good your product is. You *will* be run over by a big marketing machine. But when it is real good, like FreeBSD, you do have something that treated right, could be a silver bullet. 1. Pedigree. When I got back to playing with computers & began looking about for something like vi to edit with under windows, I found Linux. "A unix like..." Then stumbled across FreeBSD, a joke? Well, reading further, I discovered emacs and a lot of other stuff I recognized. But, what pulled me in was the BSD pedigree, and that *alone*! I may get flamed for this but I cannot think of Linux as anything more than a cute little pc os. I don't run games. I *did* have to support customers whose livelyhood depended on their computers running every day - no exceptions. That meant a real OS with real depth. Any operating system whose kernel is controlled by one person, libraries provided by second, third, fourth parties or *whatever*, and applications from yet other sources, well that is a recipe for failure. I had to learn that lesson the hard way. Your operating system should be invisible, flawless, and d-e-p-e-n-d-a-b-l-e. This FreeBSD is a "lead pipe" cinch winner. I cannot say it has *ever* failed in almost two years of using it. I was one of the first AT&T value added resellers in Los Angeles. I cannot make the same claim of dependability about the SV based accounting systems we sold. Period. 2. Dependable. Users can be as "bleeding edge" or as conservative as they wish. Dependability is available with FreeBSD. Linux is... I'm not sure where. I think a mirage. So, you've got pedigree and dependability. You need suits. PR and an appeal to the conservative and corporate. I'm going to cast about here in Austin and see what I can discover. All I need is a heartbeat and a dialtone. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 21:56:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10280 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:56:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ppp6518.on.bellglobal.com (ppp6518.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10187; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:56:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by ppp6518.on.bellglobal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA03130; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:54:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: ppp6518.on.bellglobal.com: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:54:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Open Systems Networking cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , David Shanes , Brett Glass , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > wheels but going nowhere. Well maybe slooowly we are. But we need to get a > game plan going and attack with teeth. But stick to facts. I think we just > need a PR plan. We need to organize an assault :) Do many local public libraries accept donations? I've thought before this would be a great way to increase FreeBSD's availability, done en masse. No organized assault, just many little things. :) -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 22:00:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12197 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:00:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12180; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (lafra-110.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.86.110]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id FAA09195; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:00:36 GMT Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00323; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:00:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Message-Id: <199804100500.AAA00323@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:00:34 -0500 (CDT) To: jdn@acp.qiv.com Cc: fpawlak@execpc.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[4]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.2-971023-FreeBSD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jay Nelson wrote: > On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > >Jay Nelson wrote: > >> On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > >> > >> [snip] > >> > >> >The problem with FreeBSD, is that people working on FreeBSD are > >> generally > >> >older, and find evangelism to be painful. Also, people using > FreeBSD > >> >are busy using it, as opposed to worshipping it. > >> > > >> >How do we (really) deal with this? > >> > >> I suggest we don't evangelize, per se > >> > > > >Oh but we must!! > > I'm not convinced we must. The evangelical furor is normally > associated with the more inexperienced "true believers" than mission > critical. How do you wish to define evangelization? If you want to spread the word you need a mouth piece. Either way you cut it you evangelize to some degree. > > >> I agree that most of use are > >> older -- and it appears that most of use deal with real clients in > the > >> real world. The cost of an OS is the scheme of the commercial world > is > >> not a deciding factor. Support and reliability is a major factor. > > > >You hit on a key fact here and that is support. Please don't take > what > >I am going to say as a criticism. Because FreeBSD users are older > and > >thus more experienced I think it is often taken for granted that > every > >user is at the same level of expertise, which is simply not the case. > >Further there is an attitude and in some ways correctly so that RTFM > is > >the order of the day. There is a lot of truth to the addage that > give a > >man a fish and you will have to feed hin forever, but teach him to > fish > >and he will be able to feed himself. However, I have noticed some > >seemingly stupid guestions that go unanswered or ignored completely. > I > >have asked several of these myself even after RTFM.... and just > didn't > >get it so to speak. I am guilty of the terse answer RTFM mind set, > and > >I had a lady administer a public flogging to me on this mailing list > >this past week because of it. > > I don't think it is taken for granted that all users are experienced > as much as lack of time or experience of those on the list. For > example, I see a number of questions go by about sound cards. I don't > use sound cards, so I have nothing to contribute. I was thinking in terms of some very elementry install questions. Yes most of these -- how do I install FreeBSD -- don't deserve on answer. However, as the user community grows, especially in corporate, support becomes critical. In the corporate world they are always looking for who is going to take the bullet when the wheels come off. Why do you suppose IBM was so domininant in Mainframes when it was well known that Burroughs had better technology. IBM was there to take the heat when things went to hell, and Burroughs would shine around at their leasure. > > > >It is understandable that the population of the newsgroup and mailing > >lists are busy, but to reach the newbe and a larger user community > more > >patience with the user whose UNIX knowledge is at the orangutan level > >will be required. I have worked in the computer user industry for > many > >years, and the one thing that I realized early on is the UNIX scares > the > >hell out of most people. It has a reputation for be criptic, etc. > What > >I would propose would be some volunteers to take these questions and > >patiently answer them to maintain user retention, and don't let them > >slip off to Linux becuse of the mis-apprehension that it is better > >supported. And that belief is out there partialy because of the > volumes > >of books on the shelves devoted to Linux, most of which are nothing > more > >than a statement of environmental waste in all the trees destroyed to > >provide the paper for them. > > I can't really disagree -- but the recognition that counts comes from > corporate -- not the user. Corporate doesn't read the Linux books and > doesn't really care how cryptic and OS may be. I don't think Unix will > ever make inroads on the desktop, largely because of the perceptions > you mention until there is a clear corporate reason to do so. Oh yea, what about the developer that needs the power, they are going to get what they want (need). That is a pretty good user group to have in camp in my not so humble opinion ;-) > > As far as the newbie goes, I don't have a good suggestion. A multiuser > system is inherently more complex than a single user executive. It > requires more of a user who wants to enjoy the benefits. Many don't > want to invest the effort. > > >Overall I believe that the support offered for FreeBSD is of a higher > >quality that that of the Linux newsgroups. There is a lot of > bulljive > >passed for expertise on their NGs. So we have a strong base to build > >upon. We have a pedagree UNIX -- oops -- with a rich heritage not a > >clone. Some marketing and market presence will get the word out. No > >reason for FreeBSD to take the back seat to any OS. We have a great > >story to tell. > > The consideration comes down to whom we wish to appeal (and even why > we want to appeal.) I think an appeal to corporate via press releases > and trade rags is the best approach. A necessary approach in any case! Frank > > -- Jay > > >----------------snip > >> > >> What I suggest is this: > >> > >> First -- Jordan -- since you're the main man in this, put the > pencil > >> to the paper and figure out what it would cost to mount a program > of > >> professional news releases -- including customer profiles. Look at > the > >> number of CD-ROMS sold and divide cost by CDs and add to CD cost. > Look > >> at the newsletter and consider subscription. Most of us can afford > >> some extra bucks and would be happy to spend it for the > credibility. > >> Think in terms of two to three times per month for the news > releases. > >> > >> Second: poll the rest of us for contributions. Many of us are using > >> FreeBSD in production environments. (Yeah, I'll volunteer -- even > >> though I can't write worth a plug nickle.) > > > >I'll go along with this. I can't code but would be willing to do my > >part. > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > -- Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 22:07:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13779 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:07:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13758; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:07:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16846; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:37:44 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA01386; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:37:43 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980410143743.25913@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:37:43 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , Mike Smith , David Shanes Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com> <025301bd63fb$0b94bc80$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com> <19980410113536.65458@freebie.lemis.com> <199804100428.WAA09649@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199804100428.WAA09649@lariat.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Thu, Apr 09, 1998 at 10:28:12PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 April 1998 at 22:28:12 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:35 AM 4/10/98 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Tim knows about Jordan, despite his message. We've repeatedly tried >> to get them interested in BSD, but there's something at ORA that >> resists. > > It is, as usual, the "almighty dollar." That alone wouldn't explain it. > ORA sees the Linux market as larger, and therefore favors it. They publish books. Just because they publish books doesn't mean that they can't also publish books on BSD. In fact, O'Reilly Germany *are* planning a BSD book, but I haven't seen much about it for a while. The closest I could find to a real concern was that their 4.4BSD manual set didn't sell nearly as well as they had expected. I have contacts at ORA via my book "Porting UNIX software". They're not all against BSD, but the Powers that Be are. >> I've just about given up with ORA. They seem to be relinquishing >> their position as the favourite UNIX publisher and chasing the NT >> crowd. > > More proof, alas, that they're chasing what they believe to be the > largest market. That's my take too. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 22:23:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17130 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:23:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17068 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:23:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id BAA07959; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:22:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Amancio Hasty cc: Paul Saab , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <199804100447.VAA09514@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -- "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 22:25:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17737 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:25:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17711 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:25:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id BAA08191; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:24:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Mark Mayo cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <19980409235002.26337@vmunix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Mark Mayo wrote: > Indeed. Time is very critical here - we need to be able to push the > "FreeBSD provides world-wide mirroring and source code revision > architecture for Mozilla.org" PR headlines. > > Get this up right away, spam the news group at mozilla.org, and send > out PRs to news.com, infoworld.com, etc, etc.. I second this. we REALLY REALLY need to have a PR sent out pronto like by morning to EVERYONE wired, cnet, yahoo, the above news pages, etc.. If we hit them hard enough and with a nice PR stating our use of a CVS mozilla tree, we could really win some excellent initial bonus PR points here. It's a good start. This should happen for sure. Chris -- "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 22:25:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA18091 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:25:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17949; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:25:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from execpc.com (honoghr-34.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.87.162]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id FAA10345; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:25:24 GMT Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by execpc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00220; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:25:23 -0500 From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980410002523.ZM219@execpc.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:25:23 -0500 In-Reply-To: "John S. Dyson" "Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet"" (Apr 9, 11:42pm) References: <199804100442.XAA03386@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: "John S. Dyson" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, dshanes@personalogic.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Apr 9, 11:42pm, John S. Dyson wrote: > Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the In > > On Apr 9, 10:03pm, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > > > > > Each of 'em seems like a Borg nano-probe :-). (Re: StarTrek Voyager :-)). > > > > > > John > > >-- End of excerpt from John S. Dyson > > > > I'll have to have my wife give me a translation of this. She is the StarTrek > > person in the family. I barely know what a Borg is let alone a nano-probe. > > Regards, > > Frank > > > They are little cyborg entities flowing around in Borg bloodstreams used to > affect the assimilation process among other things. I am attributing the > typical individual zealot as being about as important as one of the nano-probes > (to the larger collective -- and will be sacrificed if it is valuable to the > collective), all together they have a significant effect. This is an > assimilation process, where it is a war between the Linux world and the > rest of software. It just seems that Microsoft is the big target, but > don't be tricked into thinking that war is "freedom" vs. "domination." > Linux and Microsoft are various forms of domination at war. Microsoft > wants to have all your money, while the GPL movement wants to socialize > inventiveness. Thanks for the explanation of the nano probes as well as the domination issues. I fully understand the Microsoft tactic because I have lived in the corporate world and am well aware of their game. I don't understand the mindset that it takes to keep playing it, except that it is the "safe" bet. I am too green to grasp the inventive issues, but reading arguments presented by you and the others on the NG has started a gremanation process. On the technical side I have much to learn. It appears that jumping in bed with Microsoft or GPL is just a matter of deciding which cross you wish to die on. > > The GPL is not Netscape's friend. Their upper mgmt doesn't appear to > realize it. They appear to have made several mistakes of late. Would sure hate to see them go down. Other than SUN in the commercial there is not much standing in Microsoft's way. > > We need to continue growing the free software movement (and the associated > freedom of individuals), and not be left out in the cold. The Linux thing > is NOT a free software movement, but is an evangelistic pseudo-religion. > It wouldn't suprise me that the same people who might be susceptible to > a cult are the same people evangelizing whatever OS that they have > adopted. No OS is immune to this, but Linux appears to have more than > it's fair share. Well said, and I agree. In earlier posts I said that we need to evangelize, however when I define an evangelist and a fanatic, the definitions are worlds apart. An old friend of yours, Albert Callahan, fits tha latter ;-) Good talking with you, Frank > > John >-- End of excerpt from John S. Dyson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 22:32:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19881 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19817; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:32:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16887; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:01:16 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA01507; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:01:10 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980410150110.34402@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:01:10 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Frank Pawlak , jdn@acp.qiv.com Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re[4]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <199804100500.AAA00323@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199804100500.AAA00323@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 12:00:34AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Frank, I don't know ishmail, but isn't it possible to configure it so that it doesn't mangle text like this? It's barely legible. Greg >>>> I agree that most of use are >>>> older -- and it appears that most of use deal with real clients in >> the >>>> real world. The cost of an OS is the scheme of the commercial world >> is >>>> not a deciding factor. Support and reliability is a major factor. >>> >>> You hit on a key fact here and that is support. Please don't take >> what >>> I am going to say as a criticism. Because FreeBSD users are older >> and >>> thus more experienced I think it is often taken for granted that >> every >>> user is at the same level of expertise, which is simply not the case. >>> Further there is an attitude and in some ways correctly so that RTFM >> is >>> the order of the day. (etc) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 22:33:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20250 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:33:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.16.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20183; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:33:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from execpc.com (indobok-72.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.87.72]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.8.8) id AAA07978; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:33:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by execpc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00226; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:32:26 -0500 From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980410003226.ZM225@execpc.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:32:26 -0500 In-Reply-To: John Kenagy "Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet"" (Apr 10, 12:01am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: John Kenagy , Open Systems Networking Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: questions freebsd , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I like this guy. He has the hair on your ass attitude to get the job done. I too am an "olde fart', haven't flogged many systems, but I understand marketing. One question, what the hell are you doing in Texas? If you were in the Mid-West I'd like to work with you. Regards, Frank On Apr 10, 12:01am, John Kenagy wrote: > Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" > My response to everything bing said. > > Yesss!!! To all!!! > > I'm an olde fart ex-system flogger from way back. All of what everyone > is saying is needed. It is marketing, marketing, marketing.... It does > *not matter* how good your product is. You *will* be run over by a > big marketing machine. > > But when it is real good, like FreeBSD, you do have something that > treated right, could be a silver bullet. > > 1. Pedigree. When I got back to playing with computers & began looking > about for something like vi to edit with under windows, I found Linux. > "A unix like..." Then stumbled across FreeBSD, a joke? Well, reading > further, I discovered emacs and a lot of other stuff I recognized. > But, what pulled me in was the BSD pedigree, and that *alone*! > > I may get flamed for this but I cannot think of Linux as anything > more than a cute little pc os. I don't run games. I *did* have to > support customers whose livelyhood depended on their computers > running every day - no exceptions. That meant a real OS with real > depth. > > Any operating system whose kernel is controlled by one person, > libraries provided by second, third, fourth parties or *whatever*, > and applications from yet other sources, well that is a recipe > for failure. I had to learn that lesson the hard way. > > Your operating system should be invisible, flawless, and > d-e-p-e-n-d-a-b-l-e. This FreeBSD is a "lead pipe" cinch winner. > I cannot say it has *ever* failed in almost two years of using it. > > I was one of the first AT&T value added resellers in Los Angeles. > I cannot make the same claim of dependability about the SV based > accounting systems we sold. Period. > > 2. Dependable. Users can be as "bleeding edge" or as conservative > as they wish. Dependability is available with FreeBSD. Linux is... > I'm not sure where. I think a mirage. > > So, you've got pedigree and dependability. You need suits. PR and > an appeal to the conservative and corporate. I'm going to cast about > here in Austin and see what I can discover. > > All I need is a heartbeat and a dialtone. > > John > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from John Kenagy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 22:43:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22520 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:43:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA22514 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:43:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atf3r@cs.virginia.edu) Received: from ares.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa13676; 10 Apr 98 1:43 EDT Received: from mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.67.12]) by ares.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05922; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (atf3r@localhost) by mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA18335; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:42:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU: atf3r owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:42:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <199804100336.UAA09104@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I thought we had a volunteer? > > If it is not up tonite then lets get going !! That would have been me. For some reason Jordan didn't want it on freefall and instead got one set up on bento.freebsd.org. I cannot say more, because that's all I know. I thought I missed the public discussion of this event. I suggest contacting Jordan for details. Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualization Lab ->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 22:55:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25082 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:55:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25068 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:55:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id PAA00602; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:54:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804100554.PAA00602@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: from Open Systems Networking at "Apr 10, 98 01:24:53 am" To: opsys@mail.webspan.net (Open Systems Networking) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:54:18 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Open Systems Networking wrote: > I second this. we REALLY REALLY need to have a PR sent out pronto like by > morning to EVERYONE wired, cnet, yahoo, the above news pages, etc.. > If we hit them hard enough and with a nice PR stating our use of a CVS > mozilla tree, we could really win some excellent initial bonus PR points > here. It's a good start. This should happen for sure. I have to disagree with this. I think it is unwise to promote things that FreeBSD as a group hasn't done much with. And Mozilla is one of those. Jordan has set up the cvs tree and it is now up to people to use it. Or is this another one of those things that people want to play with but nobody really wants to work on? -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 22:55:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25141 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:55:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25070; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:55:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (kosnax-10.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.64.14]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id FAA11683; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:55:25 GMT Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00337; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:55:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Message-Id: <199804100555.AAA00337@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:55:22 -0500 (CDT) To: jfieber@indiana.edu Cc: danj@3skel.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.2-971023-FreeBSD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Fieber wrote: > On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Dan Janowski wrote: > > > We should conduct a census! Put it on the website, in the FTP > banners on > > wcarchive, in the CDROMs. > > Well, ya, but the results would rate next to worthless in terms > of statistical validity. Good demographic studies are pretty > hard to do when you don't know the extent of your population, and > asking people to register isn't going to define it for you. > > I did one random sampling of mailing list subscribers (I defined > my population as mailing list subscribers) and sent a small > survey regarding the FreeBSD web site. The response rate was in > the negihborhood of two to three percent. Completely useless. > 60 to 70 percent is usually considered the bottom end of > acceptable in survey research. I got much more data from a form > on the website, but the validity of that data is highly > questionable for lots of reasons outlined in any survey research > methods textbook. > > BUT, a good demographic study of FreeBSD users would be extremely > valuable to have...so all you statistics junkies, start thinking > of a way to come up with a *representative* sample the user > population. > > -john You would enjoy what the Linux people use to estimate the size of the installed base. Check out RedHat's web page, the document may still be there. Frank > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 22:57:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA26035 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:57:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25966; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:57:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (kosnax-10.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.64.14]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id FAA11729; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:57:06 GMT Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00342; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:57:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Message-Id: <199804100557.AAA00342@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:57:05 -0500 (CDT) To: brett@lariat.org Cc: grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804100428.WAA09649@lariat.lariat.org> X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.2-971023-FreeBSD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:35 AM 4/10/98 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > > >Tim knows about Jordan, despite his message. We've repeatedly tried > >to get them interested in BSD, but there's something at ORA that > >resists. > > It is, as usual, the "almighty dollar." ORA sees the Linux market as > larger, and therefore favors it. They once explained to me that they > had no interest in porting their Windows and NT Web server or > conferencing software to UNIX for the same reason. > > >I've just about given up with ORA. They seem to be relinquishing > >their position as the favourite UNIX publisher and chasing the NT > >crowd. > > More proof, alas, that they're chasing what they believe to be the > largest market. > > --Brett That is the name of the game in the commercial world. Frank > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:00:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27464 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:00:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (0@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27454 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from batie@agora.rdrop.com) Received: (from batie@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA17924; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980409230039.28542@agora.rdrop.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:00:39 -0700 From: Alan Batie To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-md5; boundary=Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just add a bit more to the general Linux indignation running around here, check out yesterday's Linux piece on NPR at http://www.npr.org/news/tech/ (Real Audio needed) -- Alan Batie ______ www.rdrop.com/users/batie Me batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers 27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ www.anti-spam.net NO SPAM! --Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNS21hov4wNua7QglAQGvIwP+Id4R8KlLYGfre+r3T+zO52XTJ+LsEHRf JI3PHEkahb8p/u0tEDsKz6p2v5czx4lbXW9NWLw8UG/u0iPUnvU5ueTFP9J8mgp2 Mo+KUDxEQaNX0Q/6Qg9Dl1WG7Fi5RE86fP7zZoZBDWOPbuP6KMnk4sVOcS+tShK/ 95bXwd64gF0= =hk+n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:02:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27990 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27982 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:02:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA10225; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:01:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804100601.XAA10225@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: John Birrell cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net (Open Systems Networking), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:54:18 +1000." <199804100554.PAA00602@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:01:52 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I disagree. It is a cheap way to market FreeBSD and to show that we are good Net Citizens . Perhaps we should let the Linux camp take the lead on this one 8) Amancio > I have to disagree with this. I think it is unwise to promote things > that FreeBSD as a group hasn't done much with. And Mozilla is one > of those. > > Jordan has set up the cvs tree and it is now up to people to use it. > Or is this another one of those things that people want to play with > but nobody really wants to work on? > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:10:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:10:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29418 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:10:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id CAA13562; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:06:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:10:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: John Birrell cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <199804100554.PAA00602@cimlogic.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, John Birrell wrote: > I have to disagree with this. I think it is unwise to promote things > that FreeBSD as a group hasn't done much with. And Mozilla is one > of those. The difference in my eyes is that FreeBSD is on the same level playing field as everyone else. We were all given the source at the same time. Except we use CVS daily and others don't. So that gives us bonus point there. And after netscape denounced the rest of the Free OS world by saying linux was their OS platform of choice instead of being fair about it, they have clearly indicated they dont care about our talents, or our useage of things like CVS which we clearly have more knowledge in. > Jordan has set up the cvs tree and it is now up to people to use it. > Or is this another one of those things that people want to play with > but nobody really wants to work on? I'm debating the fact that most things are play things as you put it. My point is that we have sat back and done almost nothing to promote FreeBSD. And this model clearly does not work to our advantage anymore. If we want to see corporate sponsors and be taken seriously we are going to have to start cracking heads. If that means stepping on netscape, IMO and MO only then im all for it. They have writeen us off in public saying they really want the talents of linux developers. So I say this is fair game. And I dont really have any doubt in my mind that while the netscape CVS tree might be a toy for most it WILL be worked on just like the rest of the OS. To me hacking netscape is one of those fun things that most of -core would rather be doing than hacking token ring drivers or whatnot :) If popular opinion is that this idea is rash or of ill-judgement then throw it in the bit bucket. But I think alot of us are getting tired of FreeBSD being shoved in the background, ignored and suffering from PR bitrot. Should we honestly do nothing to take advantage of this PR opportunity? And yet again let FreeBSD not take advantage of something we know, CVS. While at the same time riding on the coat tails of the netscape source is free news stories? I think it would be a big mistake. But im not a PR person, just someone whos tired of seeing FreeBSD put last in reviews, left out of reviews, and ignored. Chris -- "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:14:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00195 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:14:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00188 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:14:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id CAA14066; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:14:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Alan Batie cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) In-Reply-To: <19980409230039.28542@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Alan Batie wrote: > Just add a bit more to the general Linux indignation running around here, > check out yesterday's Linux piece on NPR at > > http://www.npr.org/news/tech/ Grrrr. See this is the problem. We are not even mentioned. We DONT EXIST. We're invisible to alot of people. I think were making a big mistake not taking advantage of this PR ploy of the mozilla CVS tree. We should be mailing PR's to all the online news sources. Chris -- "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:18:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01110 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:18:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01099 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id QAA00682; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:16:54 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804100616.QAA00682@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <199804100601.XAA10225@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 9, 98 11:01:52 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:16:54 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > I disagree. It is a cheap way to market FreeBSD and to show that we are > good Net Citizens . And deliver nothing more than you get from mozilla.org. If people would pick up mozilla like Nate et al have picked up the jdk, then you'd have something to be proud of. All this babble sounds a little silly to me. I don't want to see people create expectations that can't be fulfilled. > Perhaps we should let the Linux camp take the lead > on this one 8) If the Linux camp take the lead because they make a contribution to developing mozilla in the way that Netscape is hoping, then I congratulate them for doing that. I'd like to see FreeBSD in that position, but I don't see people stepping up to the plate to do it. There are plenty of people subscribed to this list. Are any of them (who are not already working hard on other things for FreeBSD) seriously working on this? -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:21:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01756 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:21:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01747; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:21:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id BAA13295; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:21:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980410012113.08515@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:21:13 -0500 From: dannyman To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Press Relations Reply-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980409230039.28542@agora.rdrop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Open Systems Networking on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 02:14:37AM -0400 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 02:14:37AM -0400, Open Systems Networking wrote: > On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Alan Batie wrote: > > > Just add a bit more to the general Linux indignation running around here, > > check out yesterday's Linux piece on NPR at > > > > http://www.npr.org/news/tech/ > > Grrrr. See this is the problem. We are not even mentioned. We DONT EXIST. > We're invisible to alot of people. I think were making a big mistake not > taking advantage of this PR ploy of the mozilla CVS tree. We should be > mailing PR's to all the online news sources. We? Is there anybody in FreeBSD that's the PR monkey? How 'bout folks in -doc? I need some projects for my "Professional Writing" major, specifically news releases for an organization to show to my professor this semester. Would I be stepping on anyone's toes by jumping on this? Would anybody (Jordan?) care to send us details regarding the mozilla CVS repository? -dan -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:22:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02317 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:22:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02312 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:22:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA10343; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:22:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804100622.XAA10343@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: John Birrell cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:16:54 +1000." <199804100616.QAA00682@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:22:02 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lets just put up the CVS server, make the damn thing widely available and save the speculations for later. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:28:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03165 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:28:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03066 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:27:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id QAA00724; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:26:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804100626.QAA00724@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <199804100622.XAA10343@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 9, 98 11:22:02 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:26:47 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Lets just put up the CVS server, make the damn thing widely available and > save the speculations for later. Well the cvs server is there... idle. It's available to all committers, including you. It lets me log in. As I write this, I'm the only user. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:33:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04304 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:33:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04296; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:33:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16946; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:03:16 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA01733; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:03:16 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980410160316.08264@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:03:16 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Press Relations References: <19980409230039.28542@agora.rdrop.com> <19980410012113.08515@urh.uiuc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <19980410012113.08515@urh.uiuc.edu>; from dannyman on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 01:21:13AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 April 1998 at 1:21:13 -0500, dannyman wrote: > On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 02:14:37AM -0400, Open Systems Networking wrote: >> On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Alan Batie wrote: >> >>> Just add a bit more to the general Linux indignation running around here, >>> check out yesterday's Linux piece on NPR at >>> >>> http://www.npr.org/news/tech/ >> >> Grrrr. See this is the problem. We are not even mentioned. We DONT EXIST. >> We're invisible to alot of people. I think were making a big mistake not >> taking advantage of this PR ploy of the mozilla CVS tree. We should be >> mailing PR's to all the online news sources. > > We? > > Is there anybody in FreeBSD that's the PR monkey? > > How 'bout folks in -doc? > > I need some projects for my "Professional Writing" major, specifically news > releases for an organization to show to my professor this semester. > > Would I be stepping on anyone's toes by jumping on this? I doubt it. I think this is an excellent idea. Finally somebody who has a good reason to want to perform the best possible PR. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:38:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05208 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:38:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05202; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id CAA16515; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:37:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Greg Lehey cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Press Relations In-Reply-To: <19980410160316.08264@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > I doubt it. > > I think this is an excellent idea. Finally somebody who has a good > reason to want to perform the best possible PR. I also think it would be a great idea. Just make sure to send me a copy so I can throw it in my archives. It could be famous some day :) FreeBSD's first real PR or something. Chris -- "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:46:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06562 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:46:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06557 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:46:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05627; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:46:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Frank Pawlak Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 21:23:53 CDT." <199804100223.VAA23203@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:46:42 -0700 Message-ID: <5623.892190802@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Second: poll the rest of us for contributions. Many of us are using > > FreeBSD in production environments. (Yeah, I'll volunteer -- even > > though I can't write worth a plug nickle.) > > I'll go along with this. I can't code but would be willing to do my > part. Well, as I've been saying for some time, submit something to the FreeBSD newsletter and we'll at least have _some_ forum for getting this information out there. Since everything published in the newsletter can also be freely republished elsewhere, we also lose very little in doing so. JOrdan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:54:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08196 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:54:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA08121 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:53:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id HAA07607; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:22:26 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804100522.HAA07607@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: PnP driver question To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:22:26 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804092038.NAA29720@bubba.whistle.com> from "Archie Cobbs" at Apr 9, 98 01:38:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Need a little help understanding how to write a PnP aware device driver. > > Suppose I have a PnP card that I want to do a self-test on before > claiming that it's been officially detected. Since the attach() routine > in struct pnp_device returns NULL, then this has to be done in the > probe routine, right? > > In order to talk to the card to do the self-test, I have to set > the PnP params and enable the card during the probe routine... > > My question is.. is this safe? Is this this right way to proceed? > > I'm wondering because in Luigi's paper "PnP support in FreeBSD", > the example has a very simple probe routine (which just compares the > unqiue identifiers), while the attach routine does all the initialization > work. i am not quite sure if mine is the correct way. However, after some thinking, i took the following decisions: - the probe routines should avoid changing the configuration of PnP devices, since this belongs elsewhere. Pragmatically, I do not enable anything, but allow a driver to disable resources that the driver does not use (e.g. in the case of audio driver, all the synth/midi stuff for which i currently have no support. - the probe routine, for non-pnp devices, just tries to figure out if the device is there and it is properly configured. Since PnP tells you all of this, there is little to be done in the probe routine, so the only thing is to check the PnP id - the attach routine does all the initialization. Unfortunately there is no check on the return code from the isa attach routine, so you cannot report up if the attach fails... cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:55:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08481 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:55:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08466; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:55:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05753; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Terry Lambert cc: abelits@genesyslab.com (Alex Belits), dshanes@personalogic.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:37:51 -0000." <199804100237.TAA22946@usr02.primenet.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:54:52 -0700 Message-ID: <5749.892191292@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The division in Linux implementations is very real. I have been I only wish this point got made more often - if nothing else, the public embarassment might result in closer ties between the various Linuxen and you wouldn't have so much trouble porting LDAP, to say nothing of all the other folks in a similar boat. > Spinning market perception is harder than pointing to conclusive > technical information. The corrolary to this being that spinning market perception is also a far more effective PR technique than providing conclusive technical information. :-( > > Please, before doing that try to make a list of goals that it is > > supposed to accomplish. > > I have to admit that I was a bit ticked off by one press release > that stated "Linux is the freely available UNIX implementation", > using "the" instead of "a". The was SunWorld Online (I believe) > quoting Netscape higher-ups over the Mozilla release. If I accomplish no goal other than to have folks say "Linux AND FreeBSD" in the same breath (and, more importantly, same press releases) then I think I'll have more than accomplished the primary mission. > What is the status on the CVS/CVSup Mozilla source repository that > was being considered? That would certainly raise visibility in a > positive way, even if the involvement was only in providing the > technology to Netscape. You could still press-release it... It's up and running at bento.freebsd.org; not sure what the press release would look like though. I wish I were better at writing those. :-( Anyone want to make a buck by writing marketing blurbs on contract? It wouldn't pay much, but I could make it worth your while if you had any kind of talent for it! :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 9 23:57:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09502 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:57:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA09424 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:56:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id HAA07622; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:25:43 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804100525.HAA07622@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: PnP driver question To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:25:42 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804092038.NAA29720@bubba.whistle.com> from "Archie Cobbs" at Apr 9, 98 01:38:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Re-reading your msg i think i have not answered fully... > Suppose I have a PnP card that I want to do a self-test on before > claiming that it's been officially detected. Since the attach() routine > in struct pnp_device returns NULL, then this has to be done in the > probe routine, right? > > In order to talk to the card to do the self-test, I have to set > the PnP params and enable the card during the probe routine... > > My question is.. is this safe? Is this this right way to proceed? i am not sure if it is safe... i'd postpone all self test to the attach routine. It can still fail by returning some value (forget which one) in the struct isa_device set appropriately (like ports=0 or -1, etc.); look at isa.c what is done after the attach routine. cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:03:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10924 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:03:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10916 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:03:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10494; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:03:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804100703.AAA10494@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: John Birrell cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:26:47 +1000." <199804100626.QAA00724@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:03:33 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thats nice , that you have the cvs server tucked away on some dark corner at freebsd.org. How do I access the server? Can I post this info to the mozilla news group? For your info , given that the Net seems to be slow at bringing in Java back into Mozilla , I am thinking of doing it. Amancio > Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > Lets just put up the CVS server, make the damn thing widely available and > > save the speculations for later. > > Well the cvs server is there... idle. It's available to all committers, > including you. It lets me log in. As I write this, I'm the only user. > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:04:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11011 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:04:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10943 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:03:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id DAA17483 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:03:58 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: /etc/login.conf problems with cron... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi... I'm trying, without success, to get INN 2.0's expire to run, and from what I can tell, its because I need to increase my 'datasize' limit for when news' cron runs... Which entry to I want to change though? I've tried changing news', so that when I login to news, I get: > limit cputime unlimited filesize unlimited datasize 262144 kbytes stacksize 65536 kbytes coredumpsize unlimited memoryuse unlimited descriptors 256 memorylocked unlimited maxproc 128 But, if I run a 'limit' inside of cron, I get: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:01:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Cron Daemon To: news@hub.org Subject: Cron /news/admin/admin/check cputime unlimited filesize unlimited datasize 32768 kbytes stacksize 16384 kbytes coredumpsize unlimited memoryuse unlimited descriptors 256 memorylocked 126640 kbytes maxproc 128 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:07:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12122 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:07:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA12099 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:06:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id DAA18002 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:06:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:06:57 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/login.conf problems with cron... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ignore...I took a chance and restarted cron after changing daemn's setting, and it appears to have done the trick :) On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Hi... > > I'm trying, without success, to get INN 2.0's expire to run, and > from what I can tell, its because I need to increase my 'datasize' limit > for when news' cron runs... > > Which entry to I want to change though? I've tried changing > news', so that when I login to news, I get: > > > limit > cputime unlimited > filesize unlimited > datasize 262144 kbytes > stacksize 65536 kbytes > coredumpsize unlimited > memoryuse unlimited > descriptors 256 > memorylocked unlimited > maxproc 128 > > > But, if I run a 'limit' inside of cron, I get: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:01:02 -0400 (EDT) > From: Cron Daemon > To: news@hub.org > Subject: Cron /news/admin/admin/check > > cputime unlimited > filesize unlimited > datasize 32768 kbytes > stacksize 16384 kbytes > coredumpsize unlimited > memoryuse unlimited > descriptors 256 > memorylocked 126640 kbytes > maxproc 128 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:11:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12965 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jaguar.ir.miami.edu (jaguar.ir.miami.edu [129.171.32.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA12920; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:11:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcus@miami.edu) Received: from localhost by jaguar.ir.miami.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #24029) with SMTP id <0ER600901RZ3KK@jaguar.ir.miami.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:11:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joe \"Marcus\" Clarke" Subject: FreeBSD, PR, and an idea In-reply-to: To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD User Questions List , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan, and any FreeBSD team member, I am writing regarding recent events in the news. I have been using FreeBSD for two years now, and I'm convinced of its power and potential. I'd like to do whatever I can to help. I mean it, you have an idea, I'll get actively behind it. I know the president of a prestigious advertising agency, and I'd like to ask him if he'd do any pro bono work toward promoting FreeBSD. His company is currently on-line and receiving email thanks to FreeBSD (and me). I'd like to say thanks to the entire team, and to everyone on this list who spends their time to help people with what is arguably the best operating system to come about. If a small ad campaign is desirable, let me know, and I'll see what I can do. Also, has anything come of the Apple request for Rhapsody help? I'd like to see that kind of cooperation happen. I think it would help tremendously. Sincerely, Joe Clarke On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > I was told by Eric Raymond (whom I met briefly at the Mozilla party) > > that the *BSD people were deliberately excluded because there were too > > many BSDs and they didn't want to get involved in any political issues > > over it. I find these continuous allegations of the BSD world being > > gratuitously and needlessly "split" (even though each *BSD seeks to > > fill a different niche) by the Linux community to be rather tiresome > > considering the amount of division in their own ranks and can only see > > this as something of a double standard, but I've long since given up > > on any hope of fair play from this particular crowd. > > > > This and several other incidents of a similar nature has pretty much > > convinced me that this crowd would rather prefer it if we really > > didn't exist at all and is going to essentially conduct their > > operations as if we didn't. Oh well. Perhaps it *IS* time to go on > > Thats why I thought our own mozilla tree would be best, since they have > never had any priority for releasing a BSD version of netscape until > yahoo, and im willing to bet, screamed bloody murder to get them to make a > port. I could be wrong but thats what I think happened. > > > the PR offensive here ("Why Linux doesn't work") since playing nice > > I think we SERIOUSLY need a PR plan of some kind. I think also we can take > the gloves off and start kicking heads without getting nasty about it. We > have several FACTUAL resources that they just CANT compete with. One being > our ability to server better than ANY OS out there. We have proven this > with yahoo and wcarchive and probably a few other places. They do not have > such visable factual references to point at. Our stack is better. That is > not a holy war comment thats just being based verifable facts. They can't > argue with yahoo or wcarchive. The best they can do, and i'm referring to > any OS vendor, is point at similar flagship places. Linux may have > dejanews but there are no printed numbers that im aware of for them, or > the like. So I mean you can get to the nitty gritty about performance with > facts and just kill the banter of which stack might be better. I know this > has been done to death on IRC and other low key places. But not in > articles, not in highly visable places. > > > > guys hasn't appeared to have won us anything but lots of nice comments > > from folks like Marc A. at netscape to the effect that "Linux is the > > only free OS alternative." I'm getting tired of that, and if it's > > going to take "breaking ranks" with the rest of the free OS community > > to get our own message out, maybe it's time. > > I second this! But the problemhere is that we have zero PR. I am not > making light of jordans efforts at all. His trips, his talks, his free CD > handouts to promote FreeBSD. But the fact is we dont have any PR that is > making any difference to anyone but geeks. ORA flat out annoys me by > pretty much refusing to do a FreeBSD book. The only publisher I can > respect now would be addison wessley since they have seemed interested in > publishing gregs book. I dont know what happened on that front. > But im straying from my rant. We need PR. Can we get the PR we need? I'm > not so sure. The simple fact since for as long as I can remember has been > money. money to do drivers, moeny to hire coders, moeny for PR. But the > simple fact is FreeBSD Inc, isnt seeing jack &@#$, money wise. > As far as I can tell. They get minor donations from people im aware of > that, and I thank those people. But it's pretty obvious big companies that > are using FreeBSD are not very keen on donating the money we need to > advertise in magazines, journals, etc.. I could be wrong but I just dont > see it. The entire PR for FreeBSD is non-existant. Other than the IRC > banter, the job jordan does ot promote it etc.. But were not putting ad's > out all over, were not saturating certain places with info. And im not > taking anyone to task. I know everyone involved in -core and commiters > works very damn hard alot of the time to make FreeBSD what it is today. > But how do we resolve these issues? How do we get funding for PR? Should > PR take priority over SMP? Bascially we need a freaking game plan. It's a > volunteer project, and thats good IMO, but we need an organized strong > game plan for doing some serious PR now. We have lost out to many times. > We took a hit a while back on the article comparing linux, bsdi, and > freebsd cause we only recognized 64 megs of ram by default instead of 128. > That hurt us. I'm just tired of loosing out to the satanic penguin all the > time. They get precedence over us, they get more articles, people will > publish THEIR books. Book wise were like the plaugue for some reason. > I'm really teed off now. I think we do need to take the gloves off and > start beating people over the head HARD with facts, and shoving FreeBSD > down their throats. Jordan is right being nice gets us no where. nice guys > finish last is the saying. and its becoming quite true. I think we need to > form a game plan. We need to have alot of open dialogue of PR, marketing, > strategy, etc.. We keep struggling and it does us no good. Were spinning > wheels but going nowhere. Well maybe slooowly we are. But we need to get a > game plan going and attack with teeth. But stick to facts. I think we just > need a PR plan. We need to organize an assault :) > > Im done venting, im going back to my corner now, > > Chris > > -- > "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." > > ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. > FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 > -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 > FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net > http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security > ===================================| http://open-systems.net > > -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > Version: 2.6.2 > > mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te > gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC > foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z > d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb > NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv > CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 > b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= > =BBjp > -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:16:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14260 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:16:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14240 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:15:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id RAA00910; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:14:40 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804100714.RAA00910@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <199804100703.AAA10494@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 10, 98 00:03:33 am" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:14:40 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > Thats nice , that you have the cvs server tucked away on some dark > corner at freebsd.org. I would still prefer to see it on freefall, so that people can cvsup it incrementally instead of having to download a package or a port. Jordan, why-did-you-do-it-this-way? 8-) > > How do I access the server? Can I post this info to the mozilla news group? You have to login. It's not public. So don't post the address. > For your info , given that the Net seems to be slow at bringing in > Java back into Mozilla , I am thinking of doing it. Well that would be useful. It looks to me (yes I have spent some time looking too 8-) that kaffe would be an easy base to work from/with. It's vm is structured as a library. My stumbling block is Motif. I won't buy from Xig because they penalize me for not being american. They want to charge me US$40 more for the same english language product. Then they said I could buy the domestic one because I wanted an english version. Then they declined to accept the order. Sigh. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:17:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14688 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:17:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14680 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:17:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA05946; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:17:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Open Systems Networking cc: David Shanes , Brett Glass , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:19:58 EDT." Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:17:02 -0700 Message-ID: <5942.892192622@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Erm. A fine rant, Chris. :-) As to the question of money, Chris is right in that we're not getting any major $$$ support for FreeBSD, Inc. to take out full-page adverts, but we are getting SOME money and moreover Walnut Creek CDROM is willing to significantly invest in directed advertising and such things this year. The problem isn't, unfortunately, money. What we lack more than anything else is a MARKETING PERSON and I'm not kidding here. I do PR for FreeBSD for the very simple reason that nobody else stepped forward to do it, and while I think I do a reasonable job of it amongst the techie crowd by speaking at various assemblies and consulting firms, I know for a fact that I'm also NOT reaching the mainstream. I don't write good 10-word sound bites or punchy advertising copy, my background being engineering rather than marketing, and this holds us back from doing even the simplest forms of mainstream advertising. I know my limitations, and this is one of them. Let me give you a good example of this in action: We could, right this very minute, send off about 10 notices to various publications for printing in their "New Product Section" - many hi-tech mags have them and getting something into this section is FREE - and get some instant positive PR for 2.2.6. Not only has this not been done for 2.2.6, there has _never been_ a FreeBSD release product announcement in one of these magazines for the very simple reason that nobody has ever written the requisite "punchy ad copy" and sent it in. It wouldn't cost us a cent to do it but because we don't have somebody capable of just spinning out that kind of copy while sitting on the toilet (and I know such people - all very highly paid and very busy elsewhere), it has never happened. That needs to change, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'm not an advertising guru nor do I know of any working on an hourly basis since I don't mix with that crowd very much, but I'd dearly like to change that. To put it another way, if we could locate the person who's the brains behind this advert: http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/happy.jpg and could somehow subvert them to the cause of FreeBSD, we'd take over the world in less than 12 months even if we didn't add a single extra feature to FreeBSD. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:28:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15732 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:28:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA15662 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10615; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:26:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804100726.AAA10615@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: John Birrell cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:14:40 +1000." <199804100714.RAA00910@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:26:40 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Glad to hear that the Mozilla cvs server is really bury in freebsd.org perhaps we can cripple the access to it further like only allow people to hack after 5:00 PM PST 8) kaffe is not quite ready yet and yes I have downloaded ot and play with it give it another month or so. With respect to Xig, ask them if they equally penalize the German market and post back their response to the group ... Cheers, Amancio > Well that would be useful. It looks to me (yes I have spent some > time looking too 8-) that kaffe would be an easy base to work from/with. > It's vm is structured as a library. My stumbling block is Motif. > I won't buy from Xig because they penalize me for not being american. > They want to charge me US$40 more for the same english language product. > Then they said I could buy the domestic one because I wanted an english > version. Then they declined to accept the order. Sigh. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:30:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA16295 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:30:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA16278 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:30:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06029; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Dan Janowski cc: Greg Lehey , Mike Smith , David Shanes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:35:19 EDT." <352D9376.79BA2FB7@3skel.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:30:14 -0700 Message-ID: <6025.892193414@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > We have not done much to enhance the appeal, visibility or > accessibility issues. We can't fault ourselves because we are > doing real work with our OS. But, confronted with the risk of > being marginalized, we need to deal with these three things. Yep! > We should also be careful about panning Linux. We will only catch shit > for it. As we all know this whole thing is really about cosmetics not > merit. Panning MS does little good aside from satiating our own need to > bitch about that which is lacking in merit. I didn't mean to imply that we should take on a negative publicity campaign with respect to Linux in my last message, though it certainly reads that way if you look at it from the right angle. What I was referring to was more of a willingness to grapple with the "which is best?" question rather than coming from a "linux sucks because .." perspective. We need to be more willing to say "WE ARE BETTER AT X, Y and Z - CHOOSE US!" rather than always falling back to the "try them all and see for yourself" argument - that may be the more asthetically desirable of the two, but it just doesn't fly for most folks - they are not interested in doing that research for themselves and resent being told to do it. > As I think about it, I get a sinking feeling that what we really lack is > capital. Do we need a FreeBSD version of RedHat or Caldera that will Again, it's really not lack of capital so much as talent. "But capital buys talent" I hear you say, and to that I can only respond by saying that it hasn't worked so far - we've had an open req for a marketing guy at Walnut Creek CDROM for 3 years now and still haven't found the right guy. We're also willing to pay that person a more than generous salary, assuming we can find a marketing guy who doesn't go ``CD what?'' when we get to the job description part of the interview, so it's really not the money. It's finding the people who are: A) Talented in marketing a product like FreeBSD or willing and able to become familiar enough with it to do the job right. B) Available. That's proving really really difficult here. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:32:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA16757 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:32:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA16743 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:32:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id RAA00976; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:31:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804100731.RAA00976@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <199804100726.AAA10615@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 10, 98 00:26:40 am" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:31:17 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > With respect to Xig, > ask them if they equally penalize the German market and post back their > response to the group ... Their argument is that the international pricing is due to language. So I guess the German market suffers the penalty if they want German language docs. I want english docs though, just like the american ones. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:32:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA16763 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:32:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA16744; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:32:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06094; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:31:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Dan Janowski cc: Frank Pawlak , jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:44:42 EDT." <352D95AA.6F549027@3skel.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:31:59 -0700 Message-ID: <6091.892193519@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > We should conduct a census! Put it on the website, in the FTP banners on > wcarchive, > in the CDROMs. I show 25,000 users currently registered with us. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:36:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17932 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:36:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA17927 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:36:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10685; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:36:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804100736.AAA10685@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Open Systems Networking , David Shanes , Brett Glass , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:17:02 PDT." <5942.892192622@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:36:35 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan , I have to give you credit you literally stole my post obviously not as eloquent as yours but pretty much the same in fact I was going to pitch for a junior marketing person --- I really feel that we are that level - Desperate!! So how about it Brett, can you help or one of your buddies ? Tnks! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:40:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA18549 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:40:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA18542 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:40:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giao@learnix.com) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id AAA06292; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:40:13 -0700 (PDT) X-SMTP: helo polaris from giao@learnix.com server @lapdancer.functional.com ip 207.173.132.48 user=notwerk Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980410003946.0079ae30@pop.calweb.com> X-Sender: notwerk@pop.calweb.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:39:46 -0700 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Open Systems Networking From: Giao Nguyen Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: David Shanes , Brett Glass , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <5942.892192622@time.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:17 AM 4/10/98 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >That needs to change, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'm not an >advertising guru nor do I know of any working on an hourly basis since >I don't mix with that crowd very much, but I'd dearly like to change >that. To put it another way, if we could locate the person who's the >brains behind this advert: > > http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/happy.jpg > >and could somehow subvert them to the cause of FreeBSD, we'd take over >the world in less than 12 months even if we didn't add a single extra >feature to FreeBSD. :-) Jordan, all we need to do is throw in a set of breasts with every FreeBSD CD that walnut creek ships and *boom* instant user population. Now the trick is how to package it ..... Ya just gotta know what they want! (Sanity resuming in 3 .. 2 .. 1) Giao Giao Nguyen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:41:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA18931 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:41:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA18923 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:41:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id DAA22423; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:41:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: David Shanes , Brett Glass , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <5942.892192622@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > What we lack more than anything else is a MARKETING PERSON and I'm not Then maybe we should form a PR group like previously suggested? Nothing can sell a product more IMO than the people that are fanatical about it. Since they seem to love the product so much they know more about it than most. > kidding here. I do PR for FreeBSD for the very simple reason that > nobody else stepped forward to do it, and while I think I do a > reasonable job of it amongst the techie crowd by speaking at various > assemblies and consulting firms, I know for a fact that I'm also NOT > reaching the mainstream. I don't write good 10-word sound bites or > punchy advertising copy, my background being engineering rather than > marketing, and this holds us back from doing even the simplest forms > of mainstream advertising. I know my limitations, and this is one of > them. > Let me give you a good example of this in action: We could, right this > very minute, send off about 10 notices to various publications for > printing in their "New Product Section" - many hi-tech mags have them > and getting something into this section is FREE - and get some instant > positive PR for 2.2.6. Not only has this not been done for 2.2.6, > there has _never been_ a FreeBSD release product announcement in one > of these magazines for the very simple reason that nobody has ever > written the requisite "punchy ad copy" and sent it in. It wouldn't > cost us a cent to do it but because we don't have somebody capable of > just spinning out that kind of copy while sitting on the toilet (and I > know such people - all very highly paid and very busy elsewhere), it > has never happened. > > That needs to change, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'm not an > advertising guru nor do I know of any working on an hourly basis since > I don't mix with that crowd very much, but I'd dearly like to change > that. To put it another way, if we could locate the person who's the > brains behind this advert: > > http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/happy.jpg > > and could somehow subvert them to the cause of FreeBSD, we'd take over > the world in less than 12 months even if we didn't add a single extra > feature to FreeBSD. :-) haha I LOVE that ad!!! I'm thinking of stealing it and making a tshirt from it, It's just to funny to pass up. If I get sued i get sued, you cant get blood from a turnip :) Ok so basically what we have so far is we just need a PR group, dept, etc.. I think thats basically what it boils down to. Is we need a group of PR people, fanatics, to get together maybe once a week or so. Discuss what opportunities there are for making PR's, what we have to make a PR about, etc.. I think with the advent of our java group, and hopefully the new mozilla group and of course the other efforts, multimedia, sparc/alpha ports etc.. We have plenty to say :) So whats the skinny? Does this idea of a PR group jive with everyone? Maybe a web page for PR's? The ideas are flowing now so lets keep em coming. Chris -- "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:44:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19527 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:44:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19511 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:43:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199804100743.AAA19511@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA288944298; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:44:58 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Please create mozilla@freebsd.org mailling list To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:44:58 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980410003946.0079ae30@pop.calweb.com> from "Giao Nguyen" at Apr 10, 98 00:39:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ARGH! Can we please STOP all this mozilla/netscape email on hackers and take it to its own mailling list PLEASE ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 00:56:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21403 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:56:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21397 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:56:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06222; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:56:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Matthew D. Fuller" cc: David Shanes , Brett Glass , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:49:46 CDT." Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:56:42 -0700 Message-ID: <6218.892195002@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Where do I sign up? > "FreeBSD Marketing: Who Do You Want To Picket And Beat To Death With Stats > Today?" Heh, you joke, but Mike Smith and I were kicking ourselves today thinking "DAMN! After that big Linux user's group meeting, a big bus went up to the Mozilla party several times with busloads of Linux advocates and what a wasted opportunity! We could have had a guy in a Chuck costume standing there, handing out FreeBSD CDs (along with a little pamphlet describing how a Linux user might evaluate and possibly transition to FreeBSD) to each person getting off the bus. Damn damn damn! We suck at marketing!" Our comments were half in jest, but little PR stunts like this, done in the proper humor, are seriously worth doing if you can pull them off. It'd also be kinda nice if we pulled one off occasionally rather than just thinking about it afterwards, and for that we need better advance notification and planning when such opportunities present themselves. Should any of you spot such an opportunity and need some help in making it happen, let us know! Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 01:24:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23411 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:24:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA23405 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:24:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA05165; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:35:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:35:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Please create mozilla@freebsd.org mailling list In-Reply-To: <199804100743.AAA19511@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Darren Reed wrote: > ARGH! Can we please STOP all this mozilla/netscape email on hackers > and take it to its own mailling list PLEASE ? It will be reasonable, however judging by the number and relevance to the FreeBSD development of mail in some other long threads here, there is more need in separate advocacy list. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 01:36:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25099 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:36:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25094 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:36:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA06431; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:36:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: ac199@hwcn.org cc: Open Systems Networking , David Shanes , Brett Glass , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:54:26 EDT." Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:36:04 -0700 Message-ID: <6427.892197364@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Do many local public libraries accept donations? I've thought > before this would be a great way to increase FreeBSD's > availability, done en masse. No organized assault, just many > little things. :) This also came up tonite at the FreeBSD SF meeting, and I'll repeat what I said there: If you know of a local library offering data CDs for loan, *please* drop in (who knows, you might also find a book you like :) and try to get the name and address of the person handling that service at the library. Then forward it on to me and I'll see that one or more CDs are sent to that address, marked to their attention, and we'll start the ball rolling. I just need somebody to do a little of the preparatory legwork! Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 01:45:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26513 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:45:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26457 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA06498; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:45:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Open Systems Networking cc: John Birrell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:10:04 EDT." Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:45:06 -0700 Message-ID: <6494.892197906@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > there. And after netscape denounced the rest of the Free OS world by > saying linux was their OS platform of choice instead of being fair about > it, they have clearly indicated they dont care about our talents, or our > useage of things like CVS which we clearly have more knowledge in. Well, I think you may be reading just a _wee_ bit more into it than necessary - Netscape's attitude cannot be so easily encapsulated as this, and I just spent some time talking to one of Netscape's internal FreeBSD advocates at tonite's FreeBSD-SF meeting and he strongly suggested that ignorance rather than malice was chiefly at work in those statements. More to the point, we DO have friends inside of Netscape and saying "Netscape can go take a flying &@%$*! at a rolling @%$#!!" would be counter-productive at best and hardly help their efforts at consciousness-raising from the inside. To put it another way, we should be demanding a seat at the tablek rather than attempting to piss on the table because someone didn't give us a seat. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 01:49:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA27396 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:49:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA27389 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:49:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA08875 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:49:21 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA19029; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:44:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199804100844.KAA19029@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Please create mozilla@freebsd.org mailling list In-Reply-To: from Alex Belits at "Apr 10, 98 01:35:22 am" To: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (Alex Belits) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:44:17 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Alex Belits wrote... > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Darren Reed wrote: > > > ARGH! Can we please STOP all this mozilla/netscape email on hackers > > and take it to its own mailling list PLEASE ? > > It will be reasonable, however judging by the number and relevance to > the FreeBSD development of mail in some other long threads here, there is > more need in separate advocacy list. Hear hear. I second the request wholeheartedly !! _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl __________________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD ______ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 01:55:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA28281 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:55:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wraith.cs.uow.edu.au (root@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA28276 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:55:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@uow.edu.au) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by wraith.cs.uow.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA06313 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:55:37 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:55:37 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <6218.892195002@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm involved in setting up an upcoming security convention and one of the things we wish to do is give away cd's of the free unix os's such as FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Linux, etc. Being a fbsd fan I'm very interested in promoting the os, and will be doing so by distributing the cd's as well as the Complete FreeBSD as prizes for competitions run during the convention. The last time I found FreeBSD cd's, it was a "Turbo-FreeBSD" distribution from someplace I can't remember, with 2.1.5-RELEASE on it and 2.2 snapshots. This was flanked on either side by the latest Redhat/Slackware releases at the time, Redhat 4.1 and the Slackware release I can't remember. And come to think of it, I have yet to see *any* OpenBSD cd's so far in Australia, I guess their camp isn't marketing themselves too heavily either. regards, Nicholas Brawn -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au Nicholas Brawn - Computer Science Undergraduate, University of Wollongong. On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Where do I sign up? > > "FreeBSD Marketing: Who Do You Want To Picket And Beat To Death With Stats > > Today?" > > Heh, you joke, but Mike Smith and I were kicking ourselves today > thinking "DAMN! After that big Linux user's group meeting, a big bus > went up to the Mozilla party several times with busloads of Linux > advocates and what a wasted opportunity! We could have had a guy in a > Chuck costume standing there, handing out FreeBSD CDs (along with a > little pamphlet describing how a Linux user might evaluate and > possibly transition to FreeBSD) to each person getting off the bus. > Damn damn damn! We suck at marketing!" > > Our comments were half in jest, but little PR stunts like this, done > in the proper humor, are seriously worth doing if you can pull them > off. It'd also be kinda nice if we pulled one off occasionally rather > than just thinking about it afterwards, and for that we need better > advance notification and planning when such opportunities present > themselves. Should any of you spot such an opportunity and need some > help in making it happen, let us know! > > Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 01:58:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA28909 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA28904 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:58:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id EAA29039; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:58:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: John Birrell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <6494.892197906@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Well, I think you may be reading just a _wee_ bit more into it than As usual. :) > necessary - Netscape's attitude cannot be so easily encapsulated as > this, and I just spent some time talking to one of Netscape's internal > FreeBSD advocates at tonite's FreeBSD-SF meeting and he strongly > suggested that ignorance rather than malice was chiefly at work in > those statements. More to the point, we DO have friends inside of > Netscape and saying "Netscape can go take a flying &@%$*! at a rolling > @%$#!!" would be counter-productive at best and hardly help their > efforts at consciousness-raising from the inside. I knew there were people inside since they even thanked FreeBSD in the thank you list at mozilla.org but ill be honest, I didnt feel that would do us much good when the suits higher up didn't really give a fig about anyone but linux. Having been in a place where even if you have a better solution or want to do things the right way, arguing with suits to the point of hostility is futile :) So I figured roast em! But if you think the pro-freebsd people at netscape can change their attitude, then by all means I withdraw my roast the suits at the stake comments. You know better than I what allies we have at netscape. > To put it another way, we should be demanding a seat at the tablek > rather than attempting to piss on the table because someone didn't > give us a seat. :-) *sigh* you take the fun out of everything! :) -- "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 02:15:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01104 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:15:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01094 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:15:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA06711; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Amancio Hasty cc: John Birrell , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:22:02 PDT." <199804100622.XAA10343@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:15:20 -0700 Message-ID: <6707.892199720@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG All of this is really premature. I only just created the CVS repository and there is no cvsupd or anon cvs capability for it yet! In other words, you can log in on bento and check changes in, as Warner Losh (yay Warner) has already been doing, but it's NOT EXPORTED to anyone else yet! I don't freaking know yet how to set up all the appropriate cvsupd config files for that to happen (haven't had a chance to even look at it) and anon cvs is still a big question mark for me since I've already got one request concerning its support pending with Peter - I haven't heard back from him yet on just what it'd take for us to support it or what the security implications of it are. So the answer is that making it widely available is well within the plan and has always been within the plan, it's just not ready yet for the reasons outlined above and people are going to have to be just a little more patient here. Jordan > > Lets just put up the CVS server, make the damn thing widely available and > save the speculations for later. > > > Amancio > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 02:19:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01795 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:19:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01775 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:19:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA18700; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:19:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:19:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Alan Batie cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) In-Reply-To: <19980409230039.28542@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Alan Batie wrote: > Just add a bit more to the general Linux indignation running around here, > check out yesterday's Linux piece on NPR at > > http://www.npr.org/news/tech/ > > (Real Audio needed) OK, this is moving *ME* off my lazy @$$. And that's a job of moving. Last time I moved, it was in January of '97 to put a 100 meg partition for FreeBSD-2.1.6. Here's a letter I just sent off to NPR. Apologies in advance for toes stepped on/liberties taken/stupid things said. ---------------------------------------------- >From fullermd@futuresouth.com Fri Apr 10 04:17:21 1998 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:58:09 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: atc@npr.org Subject: Alternative to MS I am gratified to hear the positive mention of free OS's in your show. It's been a long time since any large entity so respected as NPR showed such an alternative to expensive, commercial operating systems in such a good light. I commend you for this and implore you to continue; there is much more information that could be covered in a longer segment in the future. Additionally, there is a point I'd like to bring forward here. Linux IS a very nice operating system, but, as with any software, it cannot be all things to all people. My choice for the systems I administer is FreeBSD. Linux is an excellent operating system for smaller systems, but larger servers require a more powerful, stable OS. Systems such as Yahoo! and Walnut Creek CDROM run some of the most highly loaded servers in the world (Walnut Creek CDROM boasts the worlds largest public access general FTP site), yet both have chosen to run FreeBSD for it's unparalleled stability under immense loads.. Unlike Linux, which is a UNIX-like OS written by Linus Torvalds, FreeBSD is descended directly from 4.4BSD-Lite, the last official release of UNIX from Berkely, and is thus a true UNIX (ignoring present trademarks on the word). Information on FreeBSD can be found at http://www.freebsd.org, and you may contact core@freebsd.org if you'd like to talk to someone about setting up an interview. Your positive treatment of free software is wonderful; I for one should like to see this continue in the future, and hope to hear remarks also on FreeBSD, as well as other free OS's available such as NetBSD (www.netbsd.org), OpenBSD (www.openbsd.org), and the various releases of Linux (Caldera, Red Hat, SuSe, Slackware, etc). Regards, Matthew Fuller System Administrator, FutureSouth Communications, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 02:20:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02328 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:20:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02323 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:20:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pb@hsc.fr) Received: from mars.hsc.fr (pb@mars.hsc.fr [192.70.106.44]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5/itesec-1.12-nospam) with ESMTP id LAA17224; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:20:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from pb@localhost) by mars.hsc.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5/pb-19970301) id LAA23976; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:20:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980410112038.UY45065@mars.hsc.fr> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:20:38 +0200 From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) To: ncb05@uow.edu.au (Nicholas Charles Brawn) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <6218.892195002@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from Nicholas Charles Brawn on Apr 10, 1998 18:55:37 +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Nicholas Charles Brawn: > remember. And come to think of it, I have yet to see *any* OpenBSD cd's so > far in Australia, I guess their camp isn't marketing themselves too > heavily either. AFAIK, the OpenBSD CDROM is edited on the OpenBSD project's own funds, so they don't have money to waste on marketing. On the other hand, Theo is present at most security and Unix related conferences where OpenBSD CDROMs are selling like hotcakes. IIRC you can also order from their Web site (www.openbsd.org). -- Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 02:21:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02417 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:21:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02380 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:21:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA06788; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:20:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: John Birrell cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:14:40 +1000." <199804100714.RAA00910@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:20:48 -0700 Message-ID: <6784.892200048@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I would still prefer to see it on freefall, so that people can > cvsup it incrementally instead of having to download a package or > a port. > > Jordan, why-did-you-do-it-this-way? 8-) Because I didn't want it to be part of the standard CVS repository, for obvious reasons (it doesn't belong there), and that meant creating a new repository wherever there was sufficient space to host it. Bento had sufficient space. :) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 02:24:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03347 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au ([203.36.2.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03338 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:24:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id TAA01312; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:23:43 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804100923.TAA01312@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <6784.892200048@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Apr 10, 98 02:20:48 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:23:43 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Because I didn't want it to be part of the standard CVS repository, > for obvious reasons (it doesn't belong there), and that meant creating > a new repository wherever there was sufficient space to host it. > Bento had sufficient space. :) Why doesn't it belong in the standard CVS repository? It's just another src/contrib. 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 02:26:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA04018 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03990 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA06862; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:26:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Please create mozilla@freebsd.org mailling list In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:44:58 +1000." <199804100743.AAA19511@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:26:17 -0700 Message-ID: <6858.892200377@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ARGH! Can we please STOP all this mozilla/netscape email on hackers > and take it to its own mailling list PLEASE ? Fair point. All involved with the PR discussion, please redirect *now* to -chat and we'll decide there whether to form a freebsd-pr mailing list in the immediate or short term. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 02:41:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA05810 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:41:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA05804 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:41:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA19050; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:41:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:41:25 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" Reply-To: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <5942.892192622@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Let me give you a good example of this in action: We could, right this > very minute, send off about 10 notices to various publications for > printing in their "New Product Section" - many hi-tech mags have them > and getting something into this section is FREE - and get some instant > positive PR for 2.2.6. Not only has this not been done for 2.2.6, > there has _never been_ a FreeBSD release product announcement in one > of these magazines for the very simple reason that nobody has ever > written the requisite "punchy ad copy" and sent it in. It wouldn't > cost us a cent to do it but because we don't have somebody capable of > just spinning out that kind of copy while sitting on the toilet (and I > know such people - all very highly paid and very busy elsewhere), it > has never happened. FREEBSD - THE POWER TO SERVE FreeBSD: developed for years in secret in California, painstakingly started from 4.4BSD-Lite, is now revealed to the world. FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE, with the power to run the largest web or FTP server, the flexibility to be easily customized to ANY task, and the simplicity to be used sucessfullly by anyone, is now available on CD-ROM from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/freebsd.htm), or by FTP from ftp.freebsd.org. 2.2.6-RELEASE offers many features implemented over a rock solid base, stabler and more powerful even than many commercial operating systems. You can keep up with new features as they are developed and implemented by Concurrent Version System, a revolutionary way to keep up with the lastest changes, through the 2.2.6-STABLE development branch. You can even advance to the absolute bleeding edge, with the absolute latest changes, advances, and features by following the 3.0-CURRENT development tree. And yet, even with this power and flexibility, FreeBSD is offered absolutely free of charge(insert discreet caevet about shipping and media charges here) to anyone anywhere in the world, and comes with full source. You can even contribute your own improvements back into the system! Call Walnut Creek CDROM at (800)786-9907 today to reserve your hot-off-the-press copy of FreeBSD 2.2.6 for the power to serve tomorrow, today! OK, maybe I need sleep, but that's off the top of my head. A few hours, and an idea of space/format limitations, I could probably come up with something better. > That needs to change, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'm not an > advertising guru nor do I know of any working on an hourly basis since > I don't mix with that crowd very much, but I'd dearly like to change > that. To put it another way, if we could locate the person who's the > brains behind this advert: > > http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/happy.jpg > > and could somehow subvert them to the cause of FreeBSD, we'd take over > the world in less than 12 months even if we didn't add a single extra > feature to FreeBSD. :-) > > Jordan # cat /etc/namedb/db.freebsd.org | tail -n 2 $ORIGIN freebsd.org. www IN CNAME www.playboy.com. # *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 03:11:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA10037 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:11:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10032 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:11:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA00938; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:11:09 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199804100923.TAA01312@cimlogic.com.au> References: <6784.892200048@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Apr 10, 98 02:20:48 am" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:11:05 -0500 To: John Birrell From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 4:23 AM -0500 4/10/98, John Birrell wrote: >Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Because I didn't want it to be part of the standard CVS repository, >> for obvious reasons (it doesn't belong there), and that meant creating >> a new repository wherever there was sufficient space to host it. >> Bento had sufficient space. :) > >Why doesn't it belong in the standard CVS repository? >It's just another src/contrib. 8-) Jordan is right on this one. The short answer to your question is "bloat". When seen from the viewpoint of the server community, I have absolutely no interest in a strictly user program. In the same way, I don't want "X" in the same tree. There is nothing wrong with the model of separate trees for separate functionality. Just as you can "pick and choose" from a set of distribution files, an individual's CVS tree can be the union of CVS distributions. And those who are not interested in some collection can simply ignore its existance. Richard Wackerbarth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 03:17:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA10916 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:17:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10891; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:17:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pb@hsc.fr) Received: from mars.hsc.fr (pb@mars.hsc.fr [192.70.106.44]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5/itesec-1.12-nospam) with ESMTP id MAA18116; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:15:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from pb@localhost) by mars.hsc.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5/pb-19970301) id MAA24152; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:15:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980410121551.JK28648@mars.hsc.fr> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:15:51 +0200 From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Cc: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass), mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), dshanes@personalogic.com (David Shanes), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com> <025301bd63fb$0b94bc80$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> <199804092124.OAA00915@dingo.cdrom.com> <19980410113536.65458@freebie.lemis.com> <199804100428.WAA09649@lariat.lariat.org> <19980410143743.25913@freebie.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980410143743.25913@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Apr 10, 1998 14:37:43 +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Greg Lehey: > > ORA sees the Linux market as larger, and therefore favors it. > > They publish books. Just because they publish books doesn't mean that > they can't also publish books on BSD. They probably estimate they don't have enough resources. > The closest I could find to a real concern was that their 4.4BSD > manual set didn't sell nearly as well as they had expected. AFAIK, this is basically a printed copy of all the man pages... Not a very interesting thing to buy, and it certainly didn't cost them much compared to a book written from scratch. > >> I've just about given up with ORA. They seem to be relinquishing > >> their position as the favourite UNIX publisher and chasing the NT > >> crowd. > > > > More proof, alas, that they're chasing what they believe to be the > > largest market. > > That's my take too. The sad thing is that a fair part of the NT growth is based on a self-fulfilling prophecy. NT is supposed to be the future of computing, so everyone jumps on it and gives it more credibility... That's the same as how the PC became the main platform. This is kinda ironic if you remember that a little more than ten years ago, the future was supposed to be OS/2 :-)) -- Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 03:19:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11739 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA11729 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:19:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17179; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:49:09 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA02774; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:49:08 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980410194907.22357@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:49:07 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Birrell , Amancio Hasty Cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? References: <199804100726.AAA10615@rah.star-gate.com> <199804100731.RAA00976@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199804100731.RAA00976@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 05:31:17PM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 April 1998 at 17:31:17 +1000, John Birrell wrote: > Amancio Hasty wrote: >> With respect to Xig, >> ask them if they equally penalize the German market and post back their >> response to the group ... > > Their argument is that the international pricing is due to language. > So I guess the German market suffers the penalty if they want German > language docs. I want english docs though, just like the american > ones. Funny, considering their president is German. But I've always found them rather difficult to deal with. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 04:15:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA19485 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:15:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA19479 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:15:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from panke.panke.de (anonymous221.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.221]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05165; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:09:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by panke.panke.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA00483; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:02:31 +0200 (MET DST) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Amancio Hasty , John Birrell , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? References: <6707.892199720@time.cdrom.com> From: Wolfram Schneider Date: 10 Apr 1998 13:02:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:15:20 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 12 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > All of this is really premature. I only just created the CVS > repository and there is no cvsupd or anon cvs capability for it yet! > In other words, you can log in on bento and check changes in, as > Warner Losh (yay Warner) has already been doing, but it's NOT EXPORTED > to anyone else yet! The mozilla cvs tree is exported with the cvsweb.cgi script. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 04:19:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20596 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:19:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA20585 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:19:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA07933; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:48:02 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804100948.LAA07933@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Any support for multitrack data CD ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:48:02 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Since a CD burn was unexpectedly aborted today, i tried to close the trackleaving the next one open, and burned a second track on the disk. this went ok, (and if i look at the TOC on the disk i have two data tracks), but it seems that there is no way to tell mount_cd9660 to use a track different from the first data track ? I'd expect the fix to this to be quite simple, just read the TOC from the disk and use a different starting block, but i am ot sure if there is any support in the wcd driver for things like /dev/wcd0track0 would it be hard to implement it ? And where, perhaps in the wcd driver ? cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 04:55:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23109 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:55:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA23097 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:55:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA07540; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:53:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Wolfram Schneider cc: Amancio Hasty , John Birrell , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "10 Apr 1998 13:02:28 +0200." Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:53:18 -0700 Message-ID: <7536.892209198@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The mozilla cvs tree is exported with the cvsweb.cgi script. > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi News to me - cool! :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 05:27:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA25924 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:27:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw2.att.com [192.128.52.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA25919 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:27:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw2.att.com; Fri Apr 10 08:23 EDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by caig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id IAA09981 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <2MVXB9C0>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:27:14 -0400 Message-ID: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kris@airnet.net Subject: RE: Free PCNFSD Client? Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:27:12 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Kris Kirby[SMTP:kris@ninbox.ml.org] > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 1998 7:21 PM > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Free PCNFSD Client? > > With all this talk about using NetWare servers/clients, I never > thought > about the possibility of using PCNFSD... Has anyone seen a free PCNFSD > client? Packet driver or ODI will do nicely. Thanks. > I know about a shareware PCNFS client. Even two. One was xnfs and was very unstable. I forgot another's name but it's pretty usable, it works both on top of WatTCP (that works over packet driver) and Winsockets. If you need it, I can look up it's name at home (and if you need a somewhat old distribution, I have it too). Serge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 05:34:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26670 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:34:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26635; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:34:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id OAA15187; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:15:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA11084; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:13:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980410141324.56043@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:13:24 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: libqt-1.39 snap: ld: -L differences between Linux and FreeBSD ??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Have difficulties compiling the newest libqt snapshot. The seem to have a ld(1), that is able to get a list of directories (-L flags) first, which is valid for every further -l command option ... cd t1; gmake gmake[2]: Entering directory `/home/andreas/src/freefall/myports/work/qt/work/qt-1.39-19980406/tutorial/t1' gcc -L/home/andreas/src/freefall/myports/work/qt/work/qt-1.39-19980406/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -o t1 main.o -lqt -lX11 ld: -lqt: no match Error is, the libqt isn't searched in /home/andreas/src/freefall/myports/work/qt/work/qt-1.39-19980406/lib But this seems to run on other platforms... This surely would work ... gcc -o t1 main.o -L/home/andreas/src/freefall/myports/work/qt/work/qt-1.39-19980406/lib -lqt -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 What's right, what's wrong ??? Do I have to rewrite the Rules of every Makefile.in now ??? 14 subdirs: tutorial/t1 ... tutorial/t14 ?! Or does somone have a patch for ld around ??? -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 05:38:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27393 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:38:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from federation.addy.com (federation.addy.com [207.239.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA27365; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:37:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsdlist@federation.addy.com) Received: from localhost (fbsdlist@localhost) by federation.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA11233; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:37:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Cliff Addy To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <19980410121551.JK28648@mars.hsc.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Pierre Beyssac wrote: > > The closest I could find to a real concern was that their 4.4BSD > > manual set didn't sell nearly as well as they had expected. > > AFAIK, this is basically a printed copy of all the man pages... I looked at it once and that was my impression, too. Given the fact that it's online and the online version is up to date, the manual set seemed to be of no value. Reminds me of their Apache book, I think it was about version 1.1, totally outdated and useless (to me, anyway). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 05:38:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27909 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:38:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA27838 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:38:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from witr@spooky.rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03097 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:39:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from witr@spooky.rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199804101239.IAA03097@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ntrigue croaks FreeBSD X servers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:39:36 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems as though recent Ntrigue clients cause my X servers on FreeBSD systems to hang (the pointer stops moving and keys are ignored, etc). This happens on FreeBSD 2.1.6 with XFree86 Version 3.3.1 and FreeBSD 2.2.6 with XFree86 Version 3.3.2. It doesn't happen on sun systems with similar versions of X11. It didn't happen with earlier versions of Ntrigue. Anyone have similar problems or have a workaround? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 05:50:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00324 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:50:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA00316 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:50:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bkogawa@primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19418 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:50:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip199.sjc.primenet.com(206.165.96.199), claiming to be "foo.primenet.com" via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd019347; Fri Apr 10 05:50:35 1998 Received: (from bkogawa@localhost) by foo.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) id FAA05497; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804101251.FAA05497@foo.primenet.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Easy ways to publicize FreeBSD (was: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server?) Newsgroups: localhost.freebsd.hackers References: <8922056520013240000> <6494.892197906@time.cdrom.com> From: "Bryan K. Ogawa" X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In localhost.freebsd.hackers you write: >To put it another way, we should be demanding a seat at the tablek >rather than attempting to piss on the table because someone didn't >give us a seat. :-) > Jordan This is a great quote! Here are some specific things I think "average folks" can do to improve FreeBSD's publicity: We can advertise what you can do with FreeBSD by reaching out to application developers. This can be done in a couple of ways: - If you use an application under FreeBSD, drop the developer a note and let him or her know! It's great to be appreciated and increases visibility. If possible, let him/her know a bit about your setup. - If you make a port for an application, offer to contribute the changes back to the original developer. In addition, let the developer know where to find the port (a specific URL), and suggest that if he/she maintains a page with binary distributions that a link to the port be made. Explain that for many FreeBSD users a port is even more convenient than a package. - If you have built a binary package of an application (or if you know the location of a binary package, like one that's part of a release) then let the original developer know about the location of the package. Do this even if you have a port location; more options are better. - Ask them to post any future annoucements concerning their application to comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce and freebsd-announce. This leads into my second suggestion: Actively ask those who provide FreeBSD products, services, and activities to post announcements to comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce or freebsd-announce . I have been reading comp.os.linux.announce for the past few months (to get a better handle on what's out there), and frankly, the number of announcements there is staggering compared to the FreeBSD equivalents. Many of these announcements are relevant to FreeBSD as well as Linux. A number even mention FreeBSD explicitly, but were not posted to the FreeBSD equivalents. I am planning to send email to all of the ones that are specifically FreeBSD relevant asking if I can forward on their announcement to the FreeBSD lists and newsgroup, but this is something that others could do just as well as me. It would be nice if these requests came from someone with a freebsd.org address and if they were coordinated so that people don't get 10 or 20 requests. I figure that in most cases people won't mind, and hopefully next time they'll cross-post their announcement to the FreeBSD lists and newsgroup, as well. A third suggestion: Have a mailing list for people who are interested in supporting FreeBSD, but either don't know where to begin or don't feel qualified. I think that a mailing list will help by making it clear that FreeBSD is interested in contribution from everyone, not just the next great kernel hacker, and by giving those with a desire to help something to do (even if it's just subscribing to a mailing list). With volunteers, anything that you do to get them in the door and active should increase participation, particularly something that's low-commitment. This is particularly true if the list is "friendly"--encourage folks joining it to introduce themselves and talk a little bit about their skills. -- bryan k ogawa http://www.primenet.com/~bkogawa/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 05:59:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA02095 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:59:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw1.att.com [192.128.133.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA02089; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:59:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw1.att.com; Fri Apr 10 07:59 CDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by kcig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id HAA23757; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:58:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <2MVXB9G5>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:58:54 -0400 Message-ID: To: brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, grog@lemis.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:58:50 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Greg Lehey[SMTP:grog@lemis.com] > > They publish books. Just because they publish books doesn't mean that > they can't also publish books on BSD. In fact, O'Reilly Germany *are* > planning a BSD book, but I haven't seen much about it for a while. > The closest I could find to a real concern was that their 4.4BSD > manual set didn't sell nearly as well as they had expected. > And, for example, I can explain why *I* did not bought them. Because they are just printouts of man pages, partially obsolete. I already have them in FreeBSD, for free. Why would I pay lots of money to buy the same but worse ? What would I like to buy is the manual that will describe how to use this and that and why is it implemented in that way and not another. Serge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 06:22:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05098 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:22:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05025; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pb@hsc.fr) Received: from mars.hsc.fr (pb@mars.hsc.fr [192.70.106.44]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5/itesec-1.12-nospam) with ESMTP id PAA20289; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:21:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from pb@localhost) by mars.hsc.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5/pb-19970301) id PAA24750; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:21:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980410152140.LP32049@mars.hsc.fr> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:21:40 +0200 From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Cc: brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from sbabkin@dcn.att.com on Apr 10, 1998 08:58:50 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to sbabkin@dcn.att.com: > Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) > of money to buy the same but worse ? What would I like to > buy is the manual that will describe how to use this and that > and why is it implemented in that way and not another. What you want then is the BSD 4.4 internals by McKusick et al. If I remember correctly, it's printed by Addison Wesley. It's the definitive book on the matter. I bought this, not the ORA manpages :-) -- Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 06:39:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA08663 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:39:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (host77-115.airnet.net [209.64.77.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA08656 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@ninbox.ml.org) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11892 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:39:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <352E211C.39F22B3@ninbox.ml.org> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:39:40 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <6427.892197364@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Do many local public libraries accept donations? I've thought > > before this would be a great way to increase FreeBSD's > > availability, done en masse. No organized assault, just many > > little things. :) > > This also came up tonite at the FreeBSD SF meeting, and I'll repeat > what I said there: If you know of a local library offering data CDs > for loan, *please* drop in (who knows, you might also find a book you > like :) and try to get the name and address of the person handling > that service at the library. Then forward it on to me and I'll see > that one or more CDs are sent to that address, marked to their > attention, and we'll start the ball rolling. I just need somebody > to do a little of the preparatory legwork! > > Jordan The BSD license ought to suit libraries very well... Sorry WC. -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 06:44:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA09352 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:44:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (host77-115.airnet.net [209.64.77.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA09296 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:43:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@ninbox.ml.org) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11917; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:42:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <352E21CF.3B98AF16@ninbox.ml.org> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:42:39 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" CC: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > > FREEBSD - THE POWER TO SERVE > FreeBSD: developed for years in secret in California, painstakingly > started from 4.4BSD-Lite, is now revealed to the world. FreeBSD > 2.2.6-RELEASE, with the power to run the largest web or FTP server, the Should say PC-based, IMHO. > flexibility to be easily customized to ANY task, and the simplicity to be > used sucessfullly by anyone, is now available on CD-ROM from Walnut Creek > CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/freebsd.htm), or by FTP from > ftp.freebsd.org. 2.2.6-RELEASE offers many features implemented over a > rock solid base, stabler and more powerful even than many commercial > operating systems. You can keep up with new features as they are developed > and implemented by Concurrent Version System, a revolutionary way to keep > up with the lastest changes, through the 2.2.6-STABLE development branch. > You can even advance to the absolute bleeding edge, with the absolute > latest changes, advances, and features by following the 3.0-CURRENT > development tree. And yet, even with this power and flexibility, FreeBSD > is offered absolutely free of charge(insert discreet caevet about > shipping and media charges here) to anyone anywhere in the world, and > comes with full source. You can even contribute your own improvements > back into the system! Call Walnut Creek CDROM at (800)786-9907 today to > reserve your hot-off-the-press copy of FreeBSD 2.2.6 for the power to > serve tomorrow, today! > -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 06:53:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10816 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:53:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw2.att.com [192.128.52.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA10806 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:53:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw2.att.com; Fri Apr 10 09:49 EDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by caig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id JAA07572 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <2MVXB9PR>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:53:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:53:27 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr[SMTP:Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr] > > According to sbabkin@dcn.att.com: > > > of money to buy the same but worse ? What would I like to > > buy is the manual that will describe how to use this and that > > and why is it implemented in that way and not another. > > What you want then is the BSD 4.4 internals by McKusick et al. > If I remember correctly, it's printed by Addison Wesley. > It's the definitive book on the matter. I bought this, not the > ORA manpages :-) > Yes, I bought this too :-) But it's actually somewhat different. I would suggest looking at HP or _old_ SCO set of manuals to get the idea of what I meant. Actually, O'Reilly has very good books on many parts of Unix systems, and I think that the manual on BSD that would have big success (provided that BSDI does not have good manuals also) should be composed of chapters, each representing a full O'Reilly book cut to most essential and BSD-specific part plus chapters for thing not covered by existing books. This will also promote the buyers of BSD manuals to buy the full books for more detailed descriptions :-) May be Greg Lehey can pass this idea to O'Reilly ? Serge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 06:56:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11379 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:56:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11355 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:55:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA05726; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:55:44 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980410235540.03311@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:55:40 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <199804100223.VAA23203@darkstar.connect.com> <5623.892190802@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <5623.892190802@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Apr 09, 1998 at 11:46:42PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 09, 1998 at 11:46:42PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Second: poll the rest of us for contributions. Many of us are using > > > FreeBSD in production environments. (Yeah, I'll volunteer -- even > > > though I can't write worth a plug nickle.) > > > > I'll go along with this. I can't code but would be willing to do my > > part. > > Well, as I've been saying for some time, submit something to the > FreeBSD newsletter and we'll at least have _some_ forum for getting > this information out there. When's the next newsletter? It looks like you might prefer to stick with hacker level contributions. Is that impression correct? If so, I'd like to suggest a second newsletter for us plebs. If not, I'd like to suggest an article to encourage those afraid to try FreeBSD. Sorry if these are dumb questions but -hackers is the only place I've seen this discussed and I don't visit often, for obvious reasons. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 07:13:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13622 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13609 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:13:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08062; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:12:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Sue Blake cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:55:40 +1000." <19980410235540.03311@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:12:51 -0700 Message-ID: <8059.892217571@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > When's the next newsletter? It looks like you might prefer to stick with > hacker level contributions. Is that impression correct? I hope to have it in the "print me" pipeline in at least 2 weeks or less. I'm also open to any sorts of contributions, hacker level or otherwise. It's a newsletter, not a tech journal. :-) jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 07:25:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA15744 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:25:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyclone.degnet.baynet.de (www.degnet.baynet.de [194.95.214.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA15736; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:25:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malte@webmore.com) Received: from tabara (unverified [194.95.214.167]) by cyclone.degnet.baynet.de (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:22:44 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980410161317.03672cfc@cyclone.degnet.baynet.de> X-Sender: moos@cyclone.degnet.baynet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:13:18 +0000 To: kris@airnet.net, "Matthew D. Fuller" From: Malte Lance Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:42 10.04.98 -0500, Kris Kirby wrote: >Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >> >> FREEBSD - THE POWER TO SERVE >> FreeBSD: developed for years in secret in California, painstakingly >> started from 4.4BSD-Lite, is now revealed to the world. FreeBSD >> 2.2.6-RELEASE, with the power to run the largest web or FTP server, the > >Should say PC-based, IMHO. "the environmental completness for highest-productive SW-development" > >> flexibility to be easily customized to ANY task, and the simplicity to be >> used sucessfullly by anyone, is now available on CD-ROM from Walnut Creek >> CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/freebsd.htm), or by FTP from >> ftp.freebsd.org. 2.2.6-RELEASE offers many features implemented over a >> rock solid base, stabler and more powerful even than many commercial The commercial OSes i know are far from being as stable as FreeBSD, so why not saying it: "FreeBSD offers with its 2.2.6-RELEASE the most stable and powerful operating- system, with uncounted features build over that rock-solid base." >> operating systems. You can keep up with new features as they are developed >> and implemented by Concurrent Version System, a revolutionary way to keep >> up with the lastest changes, through the 2.2.6-STABLE development branch. The bleeding-edge-staying-current part is needless here, IMHO ;) >> You can even advance to the absolute bleeding edge, with the absolute >> latest changes, advances, and features by following the 3.0-CURRENT >> development tree. Better mention the distribution-policy: "No need to mess up with various distributions from different vendors. With FreeBSD you get THE distribution, unique, welldefined and constantly extended to cover the newest powertools and software. Currently there are many thousand SW-packages and ports incorporated into FreeBSD-releases (from A like archiver, over M like Multimedia, or S like StarOffice to Z like ... (maybe zsh))." >> And yet, even with this power and flexibility, FreeBSD >> is offered absolutely free of charge(insert discreet caevet about >> shipping and media charges here) to anyone anywhere in the world, and >> comes with full source. You can even contribute your own improvements >> back into the system! Call Walnut Creek CDROM at (800)786-9907 today to >> reserve your hot-off-the-press copy of FreeBSD 2.2.6 for the power to >> serve tomorrow, today! >> Malte Lance malte@webmore.com >-- > >Kris Kirby >------------------------------------------- >TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 07:32:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17173 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:32:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17160; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:32:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA23970; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:32:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:32:10 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Malte Lance cc: kris@airnet.net, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980410161317.03672cfc@cyclone.degnet.baynet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [redirecting followups to -chat] On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Malte Lance wrote: > At 08:42 10.04.98 -0500, Kris Kirby wrote: > >Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > >> > >> FREEBSD - THE POWER TO SERVE > >> FreeBSD: developed for years in secret in California, painstakingly > >> started from 4.4BSD-Lite, is now revealed to the world. FreeBSD > >> 2.2.6-RELEASE, with the power to run the largest web or FTP server, the > > > >Should say PC-based, IMHO. > > "the environmental completness for highest-productive SW-development" ooOOoo, I like it; it sounds great while saying absolutely nothing. The perfect press relief material. > >> flexibility to be easily customized to ANY task, and the simplicity to be > >> used sucessfullly by anyone, is now available on CD-ROM from Walnut Creek > >> CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/freebsd.htm), or by FTP from > >> ftp.freebsd.org. 2.2.6-RELEASE offers many features implemented over a > >> rock solid base, stabler and more powerful even than many commercial > > The commercial OSes i know are far from being as stable as FreeBSD, so why not > saying it: > "FreeBSD offers with its 2.2.6-RELEASE the most stable and powerful operating- > system, with uncounted features build over that rock-solid base." I'm giving commercial releases the benefit of the doubt. Anything more sounds too arrogant, IMNHO. > >> operating systems. You can keep up with new features as they are developed > >> and implemented by Concurrent Version System, a revolutionary way to keep > >> up with the lastest changes, through the 2.2.6-STABLE development branch. > > The bleeding-edge-staying-current part is needless here, IMHO ;) Perhaps, but I'm trying to convey the scale through which you can decide how much tinkering you want, as opposed to Linux where your only choice is, essentially, -CURRENT. > >> You can even advance to the absolute bleeding edge, with the absolute > >> latest changes, advances, and features by following the 3.0-CURRENT > >> development tree. > > Better mention the distribution-policy: > "No need to mess up with various distributions from different vendors. > With FreeBSD you get THE distribution, unique, welldefined and constantly > extended to cover the newest powertools and software. Currently there are > many thousand SW-packages and ports incorporated into FreeBSD-releases > (from A like archiver, over M like Multimedia, or S like StarOffice to Z > like ... (maybe zsh))." Hm, 'Acrobat to Zsh'... it...could...WORK! > >> And yet, even with this power and flexibility, FreeBSD > >> is offered absolutely free of charge(insert discreet caevet about > >> shipping and media charges here) to anyone anywhere in the world, and > >> comes with full source. You can even contribute your own improvements > >> back into the system! Call Walnut Creek CDROM at (800)786-9907 today to > >> reserve your hot-off-the-press copy of FreeBSD 2.2.6 for the power to > >> serve tomorrow, today! > >> > > Malte Lance > malte@webmore.com > > >-- > > > >Kris Kirby > >------------------------------------------- > >TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 07:54:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA19799 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:54:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA19783 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:54:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id HAA08530 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma008528; Fri Apr 10 07:53:39 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA02750 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:53:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:53:39 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804101453.HAA02750@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's been a lot written on this (and more, I'm sure, to come). I'm wondering if it might be of interest or value for folks in the FreeBSD community to step up involvement with USENIX, SAGE, and/or local groups (such as BayLISA). I'm also subscribed to -newbies (I am, after all, rather new to FreeBSD in particular, even though I've been using UNIX since '86; PC hardware is definitely weird & bizarre stuff to me -- so I use FreeBSD at work & Suns at home...). I see a need there for a fair degree of mentoring. Sure, a lot can be done via mailing lists & newsgroups; they are incredibly valuable for spanning both distance and time. However, there is, I believe, still room for the social aspects of in-person gatherings. And I hear plaintive cries (in -newbies) such as "Are there any FreeBSD users in the San Diego area who might want to get together...?" Granted, this isn't a short-term fix to the observed problem(s). However, I'm firmly convinced that long- and short-term approaches do not need to necessarily be in opposition to one another; rather (ideally), they will complement one another. BTW: I really liked the idea of some of us buying copies of Greg's book & the WC CD set, & donating them to (public) libraries. In fact, I may propose that to the BayLISA board (as well as doing it myself for the town where I live).... [I started thinking about the concept of being an extremist in favor of "free software", and the notion of "free software radical" came to mind. [Un]fortunately, I took a bit too much chemistry in school, so that thought really hurts my head.... Maybe it's just as well....] david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 07:56:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20930 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:56:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA20836 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:56:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from panke.panke.de (anonymous233.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.233]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17304; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:48:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by panke.panke.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00929; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:38:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980410163833.44538@panke.de> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:38:33 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Wolfram Schneider , Amancio Hasty , John Birrell , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: here is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server References: <7536.892209198@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <7536.892209198@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 04:53:18AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1998-04-10 04:53:18 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The mozilla cvs tree is exported with the cvsweb.cgi script. > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi > > News to me - cool! :-) I setup a cvsup mirror for mozilla-cvs. host: cvsup.de.freebsd.org collection: mozilla-all Update is twice a day at 05:50 and 17:50 middle european summer time (UTC+0200, 3:50 and 15:50 UTC). -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 08:02:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22695 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:02:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA22603 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA00703; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:00:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA19490; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:00:45 -0600 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:00:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199804101500.JAA19490@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: John Birrell Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <199804100616.QAA00682@cimlogic.com.au> References: <199804100601.XAA10225@rah.star-gate.com> <199804100616.QAA00682@cimlogic.com.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I disagree. It is a cheap way to market FreeBSD and to show that we are > > good Net Citizens . > > And deliver nothing more than you get from mozilla.org. If people > would pick up mozilla like Nate et al have picked up the jdk, then you'd > have something to be proud of. Not to bang on my own drum, but because FreeBSD.org has a java page that points to a FreeBSD.org mailing list, I've gotten a *LOT* of positive response on our JDK efforts, including a number of folks from SUN and other OS's interested in helping the FreeBSD effort out. :) Nate ps. My personal feeling on the matter is that FreeBSD is doing a better job of creating a great product as a volunteer product. This is both a strength and a weakness. People get the mistaken impression that there is no support for our product this way, where with Linux you have RedHat and Caldera that you can whine to (with no response). Sitting in corporate American, the people who make decisions don't remember what it's like in the trenches, and *really* honestly think that if they can send a check somewhere they'll get a response. So, IMHO the *best* thing that Jordan can do is startup 'FreeBSD Inc.' right away that sells a value-added version of FreeBSD. Unfortunately, this involves a fair amount of risk, since it'll be stepping on lots of toes (including WC's), but IMHO this is the only way FreeBSD will ever break out of it's 'hacker-only' OS image. 'nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 08:03:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23168 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:03:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23156 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:03:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA00722; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:03:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA19497; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:03:20 -0600 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:03:20 -0600 Message-Id: <199804101503.JAA19497@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: John Birrell , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <199804100703.AAA10494@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199804100626.QAA00724@cimlogic.com.au> <199804100703.AAA10494@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > For your info , given that the Net seems to be slow at bringing in > Java back into Mozilla , I am thinking of doing it. For what it's worth, if you do it (given that you have access to the FreeBSD JDK), you'll potentially be sued by Sun, since you can' t use their technology except for 'educational' purposes with the current license scheme we've all signed. And, I'd have to yank your CVS priviledges to the tree and ask you to delete the FreeBSD bits. :( Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 08:22:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25903 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:22:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hunter.softcon.de (hunter.softcon.de [193.31.11.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA25887; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:22:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Matthias.Apitz@SOFTCON.de) From: Matthias.Apitz@SOFTCON.de Received: (from mail@localhost) by hunter.softcon.de (8.6.9/8.6.12) id RAA22937; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:24:09 +0200 Received: from boell.softcon.de(193.31.10.71) by hunter.softcon.de via smap (V1.3) id sma022935; Fri Apr 10 17:24:08 1998 Received: from kant.SOFTCON.de (kant.SOFTCON.de [193.31.10.39]) by boell.SOFTCON.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27514; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:19:43 GMT Message-ID: <9804101729.AA13444@kant.SOFTCON.de> Subject: O2Micro OZ6832 && 3c589D && FreeBSD 2.2.6 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:29:36 +0200 (MDT) >From: guru@sisis.de (Matthias Apitz) Reply-To: Matthias.Apitz@SOFTCON.de (Matthias Apitz) X-FAX-cover: faxcover-sisis.ps X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a brand new notebook with a O2Micro OZ6832 PCI CardBus bridge and a 3Com Etherlink III 3c589D PCMCIA network card. This configuration isn't supported in 2.2.6-RELEASE and also didn't work with PAO for 2.2.5. I started to dig into the drivers and with the help of Nate Williams, David Hinds, folks from O2Micro and a good manual of the OZ6832 from O2Micro I added support for this controller into the PCI part (e.g. into usr/src/sys/pci/pcic_p.*) and I think the bridge is now configured properly but doesn't steer out the interrupts from the 3c589D *or* doesn't get interrupts from the 3c589D. At the moment I think the latter is true. BTW: all other functions like IRQ for card changes, card detection in user-land in the /etc/pccardd.conf etc. are working fine. Even the transfer of TCP/IP pkgs does work but every transmit causes a "timeout" and a call to the watchdog-routine because the ep driver doesn't see interrupts. Needless to say that both are also working in Win95. OK. I think the 1st half of the way is done and it's time to look into the ep driver itself. There are also some notes in usr/src/sys/i386/isa/if_ep.c that "The order in here seems important. Otherwise we may not receive interrups" (near line 678 of if_ep.c). Don't kow who wrote this comment and it also seems that the code was later changed by someone else and (maybe) now isn't working for 3c589D (it's only a guess at the moment). To check the logic in if_ep.c I need a programming manual of the 3c589D. Is someone able to provide me with such a manual? The file if_epreg.h contains a hint about an "Etherlink III Parallel Tasking EISA and ISA Technical Reference" "Beta Draft 10/30/92" manual from 3Com. I checked the web pages of 3Com but did not found such a manual. Thanks in advance for any hint. matthias -- firm: matthias.apitz@sisis.de [voc:+49-89-61308-351, fax: +49-89-61308-188] priv: guru@thias.muc.de PGP: Key fingerprint = 0C 01 F2 23 EC 17 A2 D5 46 2D 29 4C 0E 8B 7E 8F URL: http://www.sisis.de/~guru/ http://www.muc.de/~thias/ from USENET: People who run servers understand that flashy interactive interfaces have nothing to do with the underlying functionality and often get in the way. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 08:51:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02744 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:51:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smgmail.smgmail.com ([204.170.177.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02706 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:51:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com (204.170.177.4 [204.170.177.4]) by smgmail.smgmail.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id 2A5GW5NV; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:46:33 -0400 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <352E6110@smginc.com>; Fri, 10 Apr 98 11:12:32 PDT From: Adam Turoff To: Frank Pawlak Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 11:49:00 PDT Message-ID: <352E6110@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Frank writes: > The Linux community uses add slicks and authorized re-sellers and > wholsalers tp promate their product. Take a look at www.caldera.com or > www.suse.com Could we ask Walnut Creek to be the FreeBSD sugar daddy? Caldera, RedHat and SuSE make money off of selling CDs but frequently drop off a case of current or near-current CDs for user groups to give away. I think I picked up 3 CDs of Caldera OpenLinux 1.1 from a recent tradeshow - one from LXNY and one or two from the Caldera booth. RedHat was there and may have had some CDs to give away too. (Remember, Linux CDs make great coasters!) Walnut Creek is shipping 2.2.6 RSN, and in an ideal world there would be no inventory of 2.2.5 left. Realistically, there must be a few cases of CDs collecting dust or waiting to be destroyed. I for one would volunteer to be one of a group of Johnny FreeBSDseeds around the world giving away FreeBSD-(N-1)-RELEASE CDs. Worst case, it might get installed and Walnut Creek would have someone buying the Book/CD combo of FreeBSD-(N)-RELEASE and possibly N+1. Hell. If Walnut Creek doesn't want to do it, why not just set up a PO Box to send your recently-obsoleted CD sets for evangelical redistribution? Evangelism doesn't _need_ to cost lots of money or become a jihad. The Linux movement is doing some things well. If we can't learn from them it's our own damn fault. -- Adam. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 09:02:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05215 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:02:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smgmail.smgmail.com ([204.170.177.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA05195 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com (204.170.177.4 [204.170.177.4]) by smgmail.smgmail.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id 2A5GW53P; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:57:26 -0400 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <352E639E@smginc.com>; Fri, 10 Apr 98 11:23:26 PDT From: Adam Turoff To: Greg Lehey Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 11:58:00 PDT Message-ID: <352E639E@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg writes: > Tim knows about Jordan, despite his message. We've repeatedly tried > to get them interested in BSD, but there's something at ORA that > resists. I suspect it's not Tim (who lives in California), but > somebody on the East Coast. Really? I don't know much about ORA politics, but I got introduced to FreeBSD by an O'Reilly sysadmin/author from the east coast office. In fact, he was introduced at the O'Reilly Perl conference as "that guy trying to sell FreeBSD - free software! - on CD". > I've just about given up with ORA. They seem to be relinquishing > their position as the favourite UNIX publisher and chasing the NT > crowd. I'm surprised they even had this "summit". Tim makes a buttload off of free software. Last summer, Programming Perl ($40 MSRP) was selling a copy every 6 minutes. We calculated that the pittance of a royalty check coming to Larry Wall as one of the three authors of that book must be enough to pay a modest set of living expenses. Add in the rest of the catalog. It adds up. If there's any resistance at ORA, it looks to me like the (english-speaking) *BSD market isn't big enough, or the market is suffering from aftershocks of the "fractionalization" of the *BSD movement. -- Adam. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 09:19:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07451 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07349; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:19:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA01295; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:19:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA19908; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:19:16 -0600 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:19:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199804101619.KAA19908@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Matthias.Apitz@SOFTCON.de (Matthias Apitz) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: O2Micro OZ6832 && 3c589D && FreeBSD 2.2.6 In-Reply-To: <9804101729.AA13444@kant.SOFTCON.de> References: <9804101729.AA13444@kant.SOFTCON.de> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have a brand new notebook with a O2Micro OZ6832 PCI CardBus > bridge and a 3Com Etherlink III 3c589D PCMCIA network card. ... [ Interrupts are not being delivered to the if_ep driver ] > the 3c589D *or* doesn't get interrupts from the 3c589D. At the > moment I think the latter is true. > > BTW: all other functions like IRQ for card changes, card > detection in user-land in the /etc/pccardd.conf etc. are working > fine. Note, there is a 'polling' function that polls the PCIC to get the insertion/removal events which could cause those to work. Also note that the insertion/removal events are in a different function of the PCIC that may be working. > OK. I think the 1st half of the way is done and it's time > to look into the ep driver itself. Given that I have 3 working 3c589D cards with 3 feet of me (Along with 2 3C589C's, and one 3C589B), I have a hard time believing this is the case. :( The only logic difference between all the cards that was done to support newer models was to increase the timeout in the probe routine, else the card wasn't found. Otherwise the driver is exactly the same. (FWIW, the box is *not* running 2.2.6-R that has the 3C589D card in it, but it's running a version of the driver that I *think* is the same as in the RELEASE.) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 09:38:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09684 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from voicenet.com (mail11.voicenet.com [207.103.0.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA09668 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:38:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from schwenk@voicenet.com) Received: (qmail 29217 invoked from network); 10 Apr 1998 16:38:13 -0000 Received: from omni1.voicenet.com (207.103.0.31) by mail11.voicenet.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 1998 16:38:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 15105 invoked by uid 14559); 10 Apr 1998 16:38:11 -0000 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:38:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Schwenk X-Sender: schwenk@omni1 To: Jason Nordwick cc: Frank Pawlak , toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <19980410011618.25209.qmail@xcf.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just as a data point... I thought it was a good start that I saw copies of "The Complete FreeBSD, 2nd Ed." with the CDs and all in a large chain bookstore, Borders Books and Music. Now, if it spreads to the book sections of large computer stores, like I've seen Linux do, we'll be getting somewhere. In my opinion, FreeBSD's just beginning to ramp up it's mindshare, but it needs a significant boost if it is going to compete with Linux. Every chance I get, I tell any interested parties about FreeBSD. Although I find FreeBSD fairly simple to install, I think if it is going to ever make any serious inroads, it will need simpler setup schemes for things like window managers. People like GUIs, and I found getting a decent setup running a bit of a chore. I hate bringing up RedHat (the Linux distribution with which I am most familiar), but they have a decent window manager setup right out of the box (even though it sorta looks like Win95). I think if the FreeBSD team spends a bit more time with making the GUI setup a bit more brainless, then it will make it easier to recommend to quasi-newbies. On 10 Apr 1998, Jason Nordwick wrote: > > Frank Pawlak, on Thu 4/9/1998, wrote the following: > > > > Such is true. I am a "newish" FreeBSD user and SuSE Linux reseller. I > > see a ready market for free "low cost" software in college bookstores, > > particularly those universities that have computer engineering and > > comsci departments. Part of evangelism is marketing and market > > presence. Having this OS on display at universities will attract a > > young audience the very people that are evangelizing Linux. > > Frank > > > > Would it be possible to have the Walnut Creek CDs in computer/bookstores, > as I see the Linux CDs ? > > What would this take, just calling and marketing ? > > jay > -- > Join the FreeBSD Revolution. > Support the FSF, buy GNU. > http://xcf.berkeley.edu/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > - Peter Schwenk - schwenk@voicenet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 10:18:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14153 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:18:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (root@piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14147 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:18:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) Received: from grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (md6tommy@grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.21]) by piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27453; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:18:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (md6tommy@localhost) by grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA13271; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:18:36 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se: md6tommy owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:18:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: Tommy Hallgren To: David Wolfskill cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David writes: >And I hear plaintive cries (in -newbies) such as "Are there any FreeBSD >users in the San Diego area who might want to get together...?" How about doing some sort of search facility on www.freebsd.org so a FreeBSD person who feels lonely can search for other people in his/her area? I'd love to know more FreeBSDers in the Gothenburg(Sweden) area. Tommy Hallgren(md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) - the source of all good beers... Go to http://www.freebsd.org and get real BSD Unix. Today! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 10:23:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14829 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:23:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from general1.consumersedge.com (mail.personalogic.com [208.213.67.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14694; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:22:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dshanes@personalogic.com) Received: from SHANES by general1.consumersedge.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id 2PDPYFD3; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:22:55 -0700 Message-ID: <007501bd64a4$85095f40$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> From: "David Shanes" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Brett Glass" Cc: , Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:17:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK, I know that you are all still trying to figure out who I am and why I jumped on the bandwagon. Although I use NT at work (blame them, not me) I love Unix and use it in school while I am working on my MS at San Diego State University. I am still a newbie to FreeBSD and have it installed on the better half of my laptop's hard drive. Here are my observations: 1. Brett - You seem to be the industry trend man. I have realized this ever since I have been reading your columns and, recently, your e-mail. Do you get advance notice of events like this, or is it all hind sight? YES - we should have been there at the Silicon Valley Linux UG meeting. YES - we should have been at Tim O'Reilly's summit. But we weren't. I know San Diego has a ComputoEdge magazine (also in Colorado) that lists all User Groups and meeting info. 2. Marc Andreesen may not have answered my letter, but Tim O'Reilly did. OK, so maybe we will never get Gates, Andreesen, McNealy, etc.. to push FreeBSD, but what about O'Reilly, David Filo (Yahoo!), etc? 3. If we start FreeBSD User Groups, maybe we can get the people in #2 to come and take advantage of the press. 3. At school (SDSU), the professor that runs the CS networks just switched most of the department's teaching computers from Solaris to FreeBSD. Solaris said that they would release the source code to the school for classes like "Advanced Operating Systems" and "Writing Device Drivers", but they didn't - so they lost out. If we have CS majors using it in college - how can we get them to carry FreeBSD out in to the "real world" after graduation? My two cents.... David _____________________________________________________ David Shanes 7535 Metropolitan Drive dshanes@personalogic.com San Diego, CA 92108 Database Developer (619) 220-5800 x228 PersonaLogic, Inc. (619) 220-5899 (fax) http://www.PersonaLogic.com -----Original Message----- From: Jordan K. Hubbard To: Matthew D. Fuller Cc: David Shanes ; Brett Glass ; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Friday, April 10, 1998 12:57 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" >> Where do I sign up? >> "FreeBSD Marketing: Who Do You Want To Picket And Beat To Death With Stats >> Today?" > >Heh, you joke, but Mike Smith and I were kicking ourselves today >thinking "DAMN! After that big Linux user's group meeting, a big bus >went up to the Mozilla party several times with busloads of Linux >advocates and what a wasted opportunity! We could have had a guy in a >Chuck costume standing there, handing out FreeBSD CDs (along with a >little pamphlet describing how a Linux user might evaluate and >possibly transition to FreeBSD) to each person getting off the bus. >Damn damn damn! We suck at marketing!" > >Our comments were half in jest, but little PR stunts like this, done >in the proper humor, are seriously worth doing if you can pull them >off. It'd also be kinda nice if we pulled one off occasionally rather >than just thinking about it afterwards, and for that we need better >advance notification and planning when such opportunities present >themselves. Should any of you spot such an opportunity and need some >help in making it happen, let us know! > > Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 10:38:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16826 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:38:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.communique.no (www.communique.no [193.212.204.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA16817 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:38:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from are@communique.no) Received: (qmail 13441 invoked by uid 1001); 10 Apr 1998 17:40:44 -0000 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:40:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Are Bryne X-Sender: are@rune.communique.no To: webmaster@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Communique DA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Jay Nelson wrote: > Third: for all of us who never bothered to register (which includes > me) lets do it, so there is a reasonably accurate account of installed > systems. How about adding a link to the appropriate page from the site index? I take it this should be http://www.freebsd.org/register.html? Are Bryne To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 10:41:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17254 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:41:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sarah.asstdc.com.au (root@sarah.asstdc.com.au [202.12.127.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17212 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:40:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imb@sarah.asstdc.com.au) Received: (from imb@localhost) by sarah.asstdc.com.au (8.8.7/BSD4.4) id DAA05372; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:40:51 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199804101740.DAA05372@sarah.asstdc.com.au> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <352E6110@smginc.com> from Adam Turoff at "Apr 10, 98 11:49:00 am" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:40:50 +1000 (EST) Cc: imb@pni.ab.ca Reply-To: imb@pni.ab.ca X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Could we ask Walnut Creek to be the FreeBSD sugar daddy? Caldera, > RedHat and SuSE make money off of selling CDs but frequently drop off > a case of current or near-current CDs for user groups to give away. Walnut Creek already do this to some extent .. IMHO I'd much rather they'd be given to the groups they currently support, e.g. the ISOC Developing Countries Workshops held annually just prior to the INET conference*, than anyone else (thanks!). These guys may not have the "profile" that some seem to want FreeBSD to have in a commercial sense but, whilst I know that I run the coolest O/S currently available, I see no need to ram it down everyone's throat. The _fact_ that it's being used to hold an ever-increasing proportion of the 'net together and promoting both a stable and low-cost entry to 'net connecivity and development says way more than any egocentric splattering the 'net with unsubstantiated opinion, Michael * see http://www.isoc.org/inet98/net.shtml -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3ia mQCNAzHgkA0AAAEEAOz4+nIIfWB9TFN8d+4jJVhqidOKHbSRgueofsIJsvLjCfp1 3BwkDdvuKP4iR3DibhZ2Rq7dBiBS+qbTPWlCDn/zRakoqAzQaWNmb5e3ueAN/oIi mAEe3QQv0LdHnVDUja9ggWyQXFeMUDF7PkdpfM3AZpm/hjYk0hIU3H6iGYQlAAUR tCJtaWNoYWVsIGJ1dGxlciA8aW1iQGFzc3RkYy5jb20uYXU+iQCVAwUQMeCQDRIU 3H6iGYQlAQGWhwP/TqngBL222Vjk5ooQ3JcNJuq0iaToQ4wrJJMfxMUkL/IpXSyR fSkZFwmc8AuLdrDmKLOMr3MJ/MRMPyU16GbsGXwZO3h7oe5QgY974mudFbacqN7L IUPplXwH/sd+LrC/RnkuG3aqag4ahtKMxZZeOMcyTdshZiP64N3Q1aCH6020Gm1p Y2hhZWwgYnV0bGVyIDxwbmkuYWIuY2E+iQCVAwUQNSi00xIU3H6iGYQlAQEBcAQA ubM4FR0MCFsTUW3H5R29kI+g/JKcdjcGtrg9a1xoptSRYPSwtbsdD4Qqy0Bj3b7P EaC2pHwICfk1lftjvBZEnUprypxTrYrVbSSyF9SjAbpxUByRC0onRE6PNBXCiILv 55+TyNuD+sVEBDg7asnrHHRc+uLIuRfpiUr3MeaYhQ60H21pY2hhZWwgYnV0bGVy IDxpbWJAc2NndC5vei5hdT6JAJUDBRAyVeYmEhTcfqIZhCUBAYJ+BAC1qa5XNNuB LMAMu8l0+tcjYaeDPlSeCxGm39vw6R/MJGMyBoe8CD1IjCxDR4DD2kzJah/n58Pq nO+3fgoO1ENV9rcZE6M2+DZ8np82o3aeWwTHBlQ5LJW0hYlceFfLa1sXfXHLNrj1 jMyWOwgDOYiw5J9+7v3bRPnE7jRcWmeqbg== =YFui -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 10:43:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18128 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:43:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from voicenet.com (mail11.voicenet.com [207.103.0.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA18093 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:43:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from schwenk@voicenet.com) Received: (qmail 6100 invoked from network); 10 Apr 1998 17:43:40 -0000 Received: from omni1.voicenet.com (207.103.0.31) by mail11.voicenet.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 1998 17:43:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 16866 invoked by uid 14559); 10 Apr 1998 17:43:39 -0000 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:43:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Schwenk X-Sender: schwenk@omni1 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Press Relations In-Reply-To: <19980410012113.08515@urh.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm a big FreeBSD fan, and I took a look at the NPR site mentioned below. There was an area for posting opinions about articles, and I went ahead and posted a blurb mentioning FreeBSD as an alternative. Please take a look and possibly post more blurbs. Maybe our FreeBSD blurbs could out-number the Linux ones? Here's the URL: http://www.npr.org/yourturn/ Go to the Technology Topics section and click on the "Linux OS: Alternative to Windows?" link. They make you "register" (it's free) to post something, but I think it's worth it. On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, dannyman wrote: > On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 02:14:37AM -0400, Open Systems Networking wrote: > > On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Alan Batie wrote: > > > > > Just add a bit more to the general Linux indignation running around here, > > > check out yesterday's Linux piece on NPR at > > > > > > http://www.npr.org/news/tech/ > > > > Grrrr. See this is the problem. We are not even mentioned. We DONT EXIST. > > We're invisible to alot of people. I think were making a big mistake not > > taking advantage of this PR ploy of the mozilla CVS tree. We should be > > mailing PR's to all the online news sources. > > We? > > Is there anybody in FreeBSD that's the PR monkey? > > How 'bout folks in -doc? > > I need some projects for my "Professional Writing" major, specifically news > releases for an organization to show to my professor this semester. > > Would I be stepping on anyone's toes by jumping on this? > > Would anybody (Jordan?) care to send us details regarding the mozilla CVS > repository? > > -dan > > -- > // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves > \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message > - Peter Schwenk - schwenk@voicenet.com - - Running FreeBSD? You should be. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 10:50:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19646 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:50:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thor.inlink.com (thor.inlink.com [206.196.96.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19592 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:49:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rayseals@midwestis.com) Received: from sparc.midwestis.com (sparc.midwestis.com [206.196.126.220]) by thor.inlink.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17111 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:53:43 -0500 Received: from rseals.midwestis.com ([209.135.156.234] (may be forged)) by sparc.midwestis.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21764 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:49:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:51:01 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD647F.510EF1C0.rayseals@midwestis.com> From: Ray Seals Reply-To: "rayseals@midwestis.com" To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:51:00 -0500 Organization: Midwest Information Systems X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The Heart & Soul of the Internet is not the problem. It's corporate America. I'm fairly new to FreeBSD, I've only been using for about 1 year. I have a client who is also a pretty decent friend of mine. I told him that could pull out all his MS Mail servers and replace them with FreeBSD servers running sendmail. Thus saving them some major cash on moving to Outlook. But he brought up a good point, what about maintenance. It's hard to find good UNIX people, Netware people, NT people or any competent people for that fact. In general I have been able to find a FreeBSD equivalent to most of the Microsoft Server applications but one. I haven't found anything to replace Schedule + or Group colaberation software. If anyone can help me there I would appreciate it. The desktop will normally be ruled by Windoze. The server end is were you can make some headway. We need to advertise the fact that FreeBSD can be an SQL server, it can be a Web server, it can be a file and print server, it can be a proxy server, it can be anything. Most technical people will agree that there is something better than Micro$oft. Management on the other hand is leery of free software. Most Management people are not technical people. Jordan, I would like to go on record as saying that I would pay for the BSD news letter to help our cause. Ray - I don't know if I said anything of interest, but I feel better. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Midwest Information Systems http://www.midwestis.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ray Seals Network Engineer rayseals@midwestis.com Direct Dial: 314.663.3987 Office: 314.298.0873 Fax: 314.298.8482 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Providing clear vision to the future" ---------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 10:51:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19786 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:51:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from voicenet.com (mail11.voicenet.com [207.103.0.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA19750 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:51:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from schwenk@voicenet.com) Received: (qmail 10310 invoked from network); 10 Apr 1998 17:51:07 -0000 Received: from omni1.voicenet.com (207.103.0.31) by mail11.voicenet.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 1998 17:51:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 17059 invoked by uid 14559); 10 Apr 1998 17:51:05 -0000 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:51:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Schwenk X-Sender: schwenk@omni1 To: Cliff Addy cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There were some good articles on the design of the file system and stuff too. I've got three of the books in the series, and in addition to the man page stuff there were some good articles. On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Cliff Addy wrote: > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Pierre Beyssac wrote: > > > > The closest I could find to a real concern was that their 4.4BSD > > > manual set didn't sell nearly as well as they had expected. > > > > AFAIK, this is basically a printed copy of all the man pages... > > I looked at it once and that was my impression, too. Given the fact that > it's online and the online version is up to date, the manual set seemed to > be of no value. Reminds me of their Apache book, I think it was about > version 1.1, totally outdated and useless (to me, anyway). > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > - Peter Schwenk - schwenk@voicenet.com - - Running FreeBSD? You should be. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 10:56:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21185 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:56:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21067 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:55:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15102; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:54:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:54:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre To: "John S. Dyson" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804092221.RAA02226@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > The problem with FreeBSD, is that people working on FreeBSD are generally > older, and find evangelism to be painful. Also, people using FreeBSD > are busy using it, as opposed to worshipping it. I'm 19, and I like evangelizing, though I do try to keep it tasteful. I hesitate to be so hubristic, but here goes: I'd gladly be a Chief Evangelizer if one is really needed. > How do we (really) deal with this? > > John > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:01:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21919 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:01:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@kenya-170.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA21909; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:01:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01568; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:00:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:00:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Open Systems Networking cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Press Relations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > I doubt it. > > > > I think this is an excellent idea. Finally somebody who has a good > > reason to want to perform the best possible PR. > > I also think it would be a great idea. Just make sure to send me a copy so > I can throw it in my archives. It could be famous some day :) > FreeBSD's first real PR or something. Speaking of press relations, I was just reading yesterday's SF Chron, and in the People in Technology page/section (D3), Tom Abate seemed to dedicate space to some very important people in the "Free Software Movement". Linux's grinning mug along with Larry Wall, Paul Vixie, and Tom Paquin's stern faced ones were featured. Too bad Jordan (or any other core team member for that matter) were so kindly left out. Oh well, at least he made it seem as if Mr. Vixie's only popular product was BIND. Seeing as Mr. Abate has a knack for technology oriented news perhaps he (abate@sfgate.com) should be contacted. - alex "We are upping our standards ... so up yours." - Pat Paulsen for US of A Prez, 1988. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:05:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22841 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:05:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22810 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA17692; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:05:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre To: "John S. Dyson" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Snob Art Genre wrote: > I hesitate to be so hubristic, but here goes: I'd gladly be a Chief > Evangelizer if one is really needed. Erm, s/Chief/Lieutenant Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:06:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23406 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:06:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rocksalt.mui.net ([207.12.13.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23330 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:06:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@mui.net) From: ken@mui.net Received: from lihing.mui.net (lihing.mui.net [207.12.13.237]) by rocksalt.mui.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA08159 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:06:32 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from ken@mui.net) Message-Id: <199804101806.IAA08159@rocksalt.mui.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:05:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet In-reply-to: <01BD647F.510EF1C0.rayseals@midwestis.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In general I have been able to find a FreeBSD equivalent to most of the > Microsoft Server applications but one. I haven't found anything to replace > Schedule + or Group colaberation software. If anyone can help me there I > would appreciate it. Ray, check out selina sol's groupware calendar. make sure you look at the forum for the bug fixes. also, check out jann linder's changes to the calendar (same location). It's a cgi-script that isn't too bad. http://www.extropia.com/Scripts/calendar.html forum (for bug fixes) http://www.sidestreets.com:8080/~77 http://www.jann.com/Perl/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:14:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25477 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:14:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25458 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:13:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13443; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:13:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804101813.LAA13443@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nate Williams cc: John Birrell , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:03:20 MDT." <199804101503.JAA19497@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:13:16 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I of course can ask Sun to see what they think about the idea 8) Amancio > > For your info , given that the Net seems to be slow at bringing in > > Java back into Mozilla , I am thinking of doing it. > > For what it's worth, if you do it (given that you have access to the > FreeBSD JDK), you'll potentially be sued by Sun, since you can' t use > their technology except for 'educational' purposes with the current > license scheme we've all signed. > > And, I'd have to yank your CVS priviledges to the tree and ask you to > delete the FreeBSD bits. :( > > > > > Nate > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:17:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26269 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26245 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:17:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14019; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:16:15 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11660; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:16:02 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <199804101816.UAA11660@greenpeace.grondar.za> To: John Birrell cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:15:51 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Birrell wrote: > Why doesn't it belong in the standard CVS repository? > It's just another src/contrib. 8-) Better off the $CVSROOT, like distrib/doc/src/ports etc. That would make it a cinch to export and easy to "filter out". My 0.02. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:19:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26800 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:19:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26790; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:19:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804101819.LAA26790@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Please create mozilla@freebsd.org mailling list In-Reply-To: from Alex Belits at "Apr 10, 98 01:35:22 am" To: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (Alex Belits) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alex Belits wrote: > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Darren Reed wrote: > > > ARGH! Can we please STOP all this mozilla/netscape email on hackers > > and take it to its own mailling list PLEASE ? > > It will be reasonable, however judging by the number and relevance to > the FreeBSD development of mail in some other long threads here, there is > more need in separate advocacy list. i will create a freebsd-mozilla mailing list on monday. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:20:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27104 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:20:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rocksalt.mui.net ([207.12.13.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27045 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:20:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@mui.net) From: ken@mui.net Received: from lihing.mui.net (lihing.mui.net [207.12.13.237]) by rocksalt.mui.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA08200 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:20:09 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from ken@mui.net) Message-Id: <199804101820.IAA08200@rocksalt.mui.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:18:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet In-reply-to: <352E639E@smginc.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If there's any resistance at ORA, it looks to me like the > (english-speaking) *BSD market isn't big enough, or the market > is suffering from aftershocks of the "fractionalization" of > the *BSD movement. actually, perhaps all it may take is for lots of us FreeBSD users to call ORA and ask them what books they have on FreeBSD. ORA like other companies go by what they think the demand is. Since most of the books they have directly apply to FreeBSD, I think it gets lost in the shuffle. Mentioning the request by name should help, I think. a thought - I wonder if anyone would take the time to get the current genre of ORA books and post a kind of errata for FreeBSD users. It would be nice ... ken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:20:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27103 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:20:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (host77-126.airnet.net [209.64.77.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27002 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:20:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@ninbox.ml.org) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00609; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:19:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <352E62CA.56A8210F@ninbox.ml.org> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:19:54 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Turoff CC: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <352E6110@smginc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Adam Turoff wrote: > > (Remember, Linux CDs make great coasters!) AOL CDs are better, because there are more of them. Alternative uses: Pop art (ask my father), frisbee (a little small), target practice, etc. If you can get them moving fast enough (cross a 24x CDROM drive [for spin] with a missle launcher [forward linear motion]) you might find a revolutionary new chainsaw. But how to stop the ammo... (Got a better word for a 500 mph. AOL CD?) -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:22:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28279 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27914; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804101821.LAA27914@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: from Open Systems Networking at "Apr 10, 98 04:58:09 am" To: opsys@mail.webspan.net (Open Systems Networking) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, jb@cimlogic.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > To put it another way, we should be demanding a seat at the tablek > > rather than attempting to piss on the table because someone didn't > > give us a seat. :-) ouch! you know that's really to do once you've started. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:23:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28501 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:23:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from southampton.Cairnwood.com (southampton.cairnwood.com [207.19.67.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28460 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:22:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DuncanP@Cairnwood.com) Received: by Southampton.Cairnwood.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <2Q0KPKBV>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:22:01 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Pitcairn, Duncan" To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Natd Support for Microsoft PPTP / VPN using protocol 47 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:21:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Last month there was a chain of messages regarding NATd passing PPTP traffic through IP port 47 (this is how Microsoft defines it). Is there activity on this change to NATd? Does anyone need information to assist them? As you can tell from above, I would also like to be able to pass PPTP traffic through NATd. Thanks., Duncan Pitcairn CCC Alliance, Cairnwood Cooperative Southampton, Pennsylvania USA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:32:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01372 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:32:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01163 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:31:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA10563; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma010561; Fri Apr 10 11:30:19 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA05807; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:30:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199804101830.LAA05807@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: PnP driver question In-Reply-To: <199804100522.HAA07607@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Apr 10, 98 07:22:26 am" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Luigi Rizzo writes: > > Need a little help understanding how to write a PnP aware device driver. > > > > Suppose I have a PnP card that I want to do a self-test on before > > claiming that it's been officially detected. Since the attach() routine > > in struct pnp_device returns NULL, then this has to be done in the > > probe routine, right? > > > > In order to talk to the card to do the self-test, I have to set > > the PnP params and enable the card during the probe routine... > > > > My question is.. is this safe? Is this this right way to proceed? > > > > I'm wondering because in Luigi's paper "PnP support in FreeBSD", > > the example has a very simple probe routine (which just compares the > > unqiue identifiers), while the attach routine does all the initialization > > work. > > i am not quite sure if mine is the correct way. However, after some > thinking, i took the following decisions: > - the probe routines should avoid changing the configuration of > PnP devices, since this belongs elsewhere. Pragmatically, > I do not enable anything, but allow a driver to disable resources > that the driver does not use (e.g. in the case of audio driver, all > the synth/midi stuff for which i currently have no support. > > - the probe routine, for non-pnp devices, just tries to figure out if > the device is there and it is properly configured. Since PnP tells > you all of this, there is little to be done in the probe routine, > so the only thing is to check the PnP id > > - the attach routine does all the initialization. Unfortunately > there is no check on the return code from the isa attach routine, > so you cannot report up if the attach fails... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is precisely the problem. Luigi Rizzo writes later on: > i am not sure if it is safe... i'd postpone all self test to the attach > routine. It can still fail by returning some value (forget which one) > in the struct isa_device set appropriately (like ports=0 or -1, etc.); > look at isa.c what is done after the attach routine. I looked at isa.c and after calling (*dp->attach)(isdp) all it does is check the interrupt value and register the interrupt handler. So there doesn't seem to be any way for "attach" to indicate failure. Here's a propsal (don't know how hard this would be to do): - Have BOTH the PnP and ISA attach routines be defined to return an int value (the ISA attach already does, but it's currently ignored). - Let device drivers' attach routines indicate failure by returning a non-zero value. Basically, since "probe" is only intended to only detect devices in a non-obtrusive way, only "attach" can be used for things like self-test, etc. Therefore, "attach" must be allowed to return non-zero to indicate failure -- in both ISA and PnP cases. If I'm misunderstanding the paradigm, please help clarify.. Thanks, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:34:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01943 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01931 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:34:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09657 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:34:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:34:36 -0700 Message-ID: <9653.892233276@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is what the cvsup entries should look like: *default prefix=/home/mozilla base=/home/mozilla host=mozilla.FreeBSD.org release=cvs delete compress use-rel-suffix ## Main Source Tree cvs-mozilla To sync with the freebsd-mozilla source tree available from mozilla.freebsd.org. Any questions? Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:35:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02432 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:35:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02420 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:35:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01289; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:35:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804101835.MAA01289@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:35:21 -0600 To: Amancio Hasty , "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: Open Systems Networking , David Shanes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804100736.AAA10685@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:36 AM 4/10/98 -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: >So how about it Brett, can you help or one of your buddies ? Sure! I've had jobs where I've written press releases before, and I'm confident that I can write releases that journalists will use (since I am one myself). After that, though, we'll need to deal with another issue. As my high school biology teacher once quipped, "Every man has enough genetic material to impregnate every woman on the planet. It's a, er, distribution problem." The same is true of press releases. Getting and maintaining a good list of press contacts -- and mailing, FAXing, or e-mailing them regularly, would be key to the effort. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:37:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02971 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:37:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wolfenet.com (root@frapp.wolfe.net [207.178.61.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02958 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from moore@WOLFENET.com) Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (moore@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17149; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from moore@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id LAA07869; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804101837.LAA07869@gonzo.wolfenet.com> From: Timothy Moore To: opsys@mail.webspan.net CC: batie@agora.rdrop.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Open Systems Networking on Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:14:37 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Netscape: Linux a top priority (news.com article) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:14:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Alan Batie wrote: > Just add a bit more to the general Linux indignation running around here, > check out yesterday's Linux piece on NPR at > > http://www.npr.org/news/tech/ Grrrr. See this is the problem. We are not even mentioned. We DONT EXIST. We're invisible to alot of people. I think were making a big mistake not taking advantage of this PR ploy of the mozilla CVS tree. We should be mailing PR's to all the online news sources. I don't think it is appropriate to be peeved at NPR for not mentioning FreeBSD in a 7 minute story on Linux, free operating systems and free software in general. Consider that they had to explain what an OS is, what source code is, why having it might be a good thing, etc. The story of a lone hacker in benighted Finland beating the best of the commercial offerings is compelling and, distorted as that might be, is likely to be of more interest to listeners than anything about FreeBSD. It's amazing to hear Linus Torvalds and RMS on national radio and have the story, mostly of interest to geeks like us, exposed to a mass audience (well, a fairly self-selective, intellectual audience). It's great that NPR story increases the awareness of free software; I think that will ultimately help the FreeBSD cause even if we weren't mentioned on the air. Tim To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:39:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA03586 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:39:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA03570 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10679; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:39:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id NAA21261; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:38:37 -0500 Message-ID: <19980410133836.34494@right.PCS> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:38:36 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. References: <9653.892233276@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <9653.892233276@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Apr 04, 1998 at 11:34:36AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Apr 04, 1998 at 11:34:36AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > This is what the cvsup entries should look like: > > *default prefix=/home/mozilla base=/home/mozilla host=mozilla.FreeBSD.org release=cvs delete compress use-rel-suffix > > ## Main Source Tree > cvs-mozilla > > To sync with the freebsd-mozilla source tree available from > mozilla.freebsd.org. Any questions? Press release! Press release! :-) :-) :-) -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:44:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05525 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05392 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:44:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18618 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:44:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd018592; Fri Apr 10 11:44:10 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA23158 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:44:10 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804101844.LAA23158@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: TIME FOR A SEPERATE VENUE!!! To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:44:10 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I suggest the creation of a couple of new venues: 1) comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.advocacy 2) advocacy@freebsd.org -hackers is getting swamped. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:46:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06072 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:46:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05902 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:46:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13773; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:45:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804101845.LAA13773@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Wolfram Schneider cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , John Birrell , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: mozilla-all 8) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:38:33 +0200." <19980410163833.44538@panke.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:45:32 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How do I access the mozilla distribution with cvsup? Tnks! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:47:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06621 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:47:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06609; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:47:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01467; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:47:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804101847.MAA01467@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:47:27 -0600 To: "David Shanes" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: , In-Reply-To: <007501bd64a4$85095f40$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:17 AM 4/10/98 -0700, David Shanes wrote: > 1. Brett - You seem to be the industry trend man. I have realized >this ever since I have been reading your columns and, recently, your e-mail. >Do you get advance notice of events like this, or is it all hind sight? I'm not psychic.... I just subscribe to the right mailing lists and read a lot. I found out about the Linux events via the "Appraising Microsoft" list on Ralph Nader's essential.org site, for example. One of the best ways to find out what's going on in the free software world is to watch the major Linux sites on the Net, as well as the mailing lists and newsgroups. I like the idea of scattering FreeBSD CD-ROMs to libraries hither and yon -- and also of having a little guy in a daemon suit at industry events. I think that regular press releases are essential -- as well as publicity on the major Internet news sites. C|Net has a bunch of good reporters who will recognize what's newsworthy; so do TechWeb, The Red Herring, and Wired. I propose that FreeBSD develop a PR team -- perhaps a group of volunteers coordinated by someone who's paid at least part-time. There should be a budget for hiring writers, for mailing, for FAXing, and for a speaker bureau. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 11:59:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08259 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:59:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08237; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:59:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17062; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:03:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980410150331.16376@vmunix.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:03:31 -0400 From: Mark Mayo To: kris@airnet.net, David Shanes Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <007501bd64a4$85095f40$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> <352E61A7.570D84C@ninbox.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <352E61A7.570D84C@ninbox.ml.org>; from Kris Kirby on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 01:15:03PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 01:15:03PM -0500, Kris Kirby wrote: > Redirected to -chat: > > David Shanes wrote: > > > > 3. At school (SDSU), the professor that runs the CS networks just > > switched most of the department's teaching computers from Solaris to > > FreeBSD. Solaris said that they would release the source code to the school > > for classes like "Advanced Operating Systems" and "Writing Device Drivers", > > but they didn't - so they lost out. If we have CS majors using it in > > college - how can we get them to carry FreeBSD out in to the "real world" > > after graduation? > > > > My two cents.... > > Give them FreeBSD CDs when they graduate. (Here's my diploma and my > CD...) <---WARNING: Long winded email follows, but there's a good "Kill Linux" argument presented at the end for those of you who's perfer to skip right to the good stuff. ;-) ---> I'd say just getting them to use it is good enough. :-) Here at the University of Guelph, thanks to the generosity of Walnut Creek, we've slowly replaced Linux with FreeBSD on about 65% of the CS department's PCs. In between semesters in a couple weeks, a good portion of the remaining PCs will get an upgrade to FreeBSD. Just yesterday, a friend of mine came up to me and said "Wow, I can't believe how much nicer FreeBSD is to program with! The man pages are better, and things work like they're supposed to. You were right, Linux *is* the DOS of the UNIX world.". :-) Ahh, makes me all warm and tingly inside. :-) Just getting FreeBSD into CS departments world-wide is enough - FreeBSD will wow them all by itself once students play with it. What was needed to make the switch? Evangelism. Plain and simple. It took literally years of me prodding and poking and continuously singing the virtues of FreeBSD before enough faculty were impressed to "overthrow" the 2 Linux die-hards.. That and the fact that the Linux NIS/NFS lab for 3rd years degraded into a piece of crap and was nearly non-usable. :-) For those interested, the arguments that worked best for me (note that this is for getting CS departments to embrace FreeBSD) : 1. Pedigree. History. FreeBSD is the product of the CSRG at Berkeley. Its roots are in academia, and we should be continuing that tradition. 2. Documentation. The Design and Implementation of 4.4BSD book. The ORA BSD document set (PSD, USD, etc.). The literally hundreds of USENIX and IEEE research papers presented on BSD related design, etc.. Superior man pages for system calls. It's hard for a pedagogically oriented prof to argue when you slap about 5000 pages of BSD docs on his desk and demand that he produce the same for Linux. The 2 arguemnts above all come down to "FreeBSD is a better environment for students since they can learn more about Computer Science. The background books are there, the papers are there, the history is there. FreeBSD came out of academia, and it's simply a more appropriate environment for the academic setting. If a student wants to know "why", chances are good that he can find out. Compare this environment with the willy-nilly hacker sytle of Linux. 3. Technical issues. NFS was written on BSD. The Athena project. Departments all over the world have used BSD in the past because is was designed with their labs, classrooms, and so on in mind. NFS in Linux sucks the willy. You're going to have problems with NFS and Linux in a large environment like a typical CS department. Fill in the blank here, we all know umpteen reasons why FreeBSD outperforms, outshines, or outwhatvers Linux. Wait for Linux labs to break, and rub it in their face. As mentioned previously, nice guys finish last in marketig - without exception. <-- Here's the Linux=Enemey arguement you're been waiting for ---> An aside on the Linux attack. Personaly, I don't have a vendetta against Linux. I think it's a decent little workstation OS. The reality, however, of nearly every CS department I see, is that they are under HUGE pressure to start providing Microsoft environments alongside their UNIX environments. At the University of Waterloo, University of Toronto, and the wee little University of Guelph here in Soutern Ontario, this means NT. The side effect of this is, due purely to economic and time issues, CS departments are picking *ONE* Unix environment. PCs are perfect. Dual boot them with NT and Linux, and you've got the best of both worlds. 2 simple systems for you admins to maintain, and you can market your program as providing students qualified in Windows and UNIX. So, we're competing to be the UNIX environemnt. Linux is winning the war. We're not competing with NT on this front - NT is becoming a given. We're competing directly with Linux, almost without exception. For this reason, like it or not, I see Linux as just as much of an enemy as Microsoft when it comes to promoting FreeBSD. On the global scale, hell yeah, I'll take Linux over NT any day, but this isn't the important battle on the academic front. My $.02 (sure to be controversial), -Mark > -- > > Kris Kirby > ------------------------------------------- > TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 12:04:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09381 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:04:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09309 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:03:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13870; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:03:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804101903.MAA13870@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:34:36 PDT." <9653.892233276@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:03:44 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Most Cool! I am cvsupping mozilla as I write this . After the dust settles we need 1. http://www.freebsd.org/Mozilla web page The Power to Serve Mozilla world wide a pointer to the nice long list of world wide freebsd sup servers 2. quick intructions on what the fields base prefix release 3. in the same page an html pointer to an html version of cvsup 4. Press Release 5. Post to the appropiate mozilla news group Tnks! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 12:11:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10961 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:11:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10628 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:09:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00739; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804101905.MAA00739@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: John Birrell cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:26:47 +1000." <199804100626.QAA00724@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:05:36 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > Lets just put up the CVS server, make the damn thing widely available and > > save the speculations for later. > > Well the cvs server is there... idle. It's available to all committers, > including you. It lets me log in. As I write this, I'm the only user. ... just to point out that bento is an excellent machine for doing your test-builds on too. It has both the balls and the space, and if you need anything organised, poke me or Jordan and we'll get it sorted out pronto. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 12:14:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11942 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:14:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from camnetbackup1.camnet.com.kh (camnetbackup1.camnet.com.kh [203.127.100.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA11909; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:14:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fred@madtec.com) Received: from nbfred (unverified [203.127.100.53]) by camnetbackup1.camnet.com.kh (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:13:57 +0700 Message-ID: <002c01bd64b4$bfe52bc0$35647fcb@nbfred> From: "Fred Muller" To: "David Shanes" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Brett Glass" Cc: , Subject: Re:Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:13:29 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to what Bret wrote: I'm not psychic.... I just subscribe to the right mailing lists and read a lot. I found out about the Linux events via the "Appraising Microsoft" list on Ralph Nader's essential.org site, for example. [...] I like the idea of scattering FreeBSD CD-ROMs to libraries hither and yon -- and also of having a little guy in a daemon suit at industry events. I think that regular press releases are essential -- as well as publicity on the major Internet news sites. C|Net has a bunch of good reporters who will recognize what's newsworthy; so do TechWeb, The Red Herring, and Wired. I propose that FreeBSD develop a PR team -- perhaps a group of volunteers coordinated by someone who's paid at least part-time. There should be a budget for hiring writers, for mailing, for FAXing, and for a speaker bureau. --Brett--------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- Hi, I've been following this discussion since the beginning and I feel like everybody says "well we should do that and this and that.." but nothing really happens (or maybe I'm missing some parts - which might really be possible). So is there anybody in charge? (sorry maybe this is also a stupid question, as I'm really new to FreeBSD) What I mean is that if you plan to do something there should be a coordinator (maybe elections then if any?), plans and of course funds. I think these kinds of battle need full time involvement. Raising fund should not be that difficult : you can sell T-shirts (I think RH does this already) or any kind of cheap items that FreeBSD users would purchase to support this action (anyway if this leads to a FreeBSD market share development, those people would easily get back their "donation" by "selling" their knowledge at a professional level). I don't really see what I can do myself (though I'd really like to help) as I live in South East Asia which is quite far from where things happen. Well that was just another comment to express my questions and feelings about what's happening. If I really said something stupid please forgive me... Fred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 12:14:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11952 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:14:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11901; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:14:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA21657; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:14:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA26334; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <352E6F73.8108A12@3skel.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:13:56 -0400 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: afurman@amf.net CC: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wd0 Kernel Errors References: <19980410043816.14011.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Adam Furman wrote: > I started getting these errors messages in my message log the other > and a 7GIG Maxtor Drive about 3-4 months old. WIth the motherboard > being about 2 1/2 years old. Please send back to my YAHOO and AMF.net > email address. > Thanks > Adam > Apr 8 21:14:11 delsol /kernel: wd0a: wdstart: timeout waiting forDRQ > writing fsbn 131142 of 131136-131151 (wd0 bn 655430; cn 693 tn 8 sn > 41)wd0: status 50 error 0 > Apr 8 21:14:15 delsol /kernel: wd0: interrupt timeout: > Apr 8 21:14:30 delsol /kernel: wd0: status 50 error 0 > Apr 8 21:14:30 delsol /kernel: wd0s1e: wdstart: timeout waiting > forDRQ writing fsbn 65602 of 65600-65615 (wd0s1 bn 794690; cn 840 tn > 14 sn 8)wd0: status 50 error 1 > Apr 8 21:14:30 delsol /kernel: wd0: interrupt timeout: > Apr 8 21:14:45 delsol /kernel: wd0: status 50 error > 1 > Apr 8 21:14:45 delsol /kernel: wd0s1e: wdstart: timeout waiting > forDRQ writing fsbn 65610 of 65600-65615 (wd0s1 bn 794698; cn 840 tn > 14 sn 16)wd0: status 50 error 1 > I have a Maxtor 1.5GB IDE and it, from time to time, displays a similar interrupt time out. I believe it is the drive we are talking about. Get another one. Mine hasn't died yet, but when the message comes up I can here it doing some kind of recal or seek with the head. Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 12:44:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18712 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:44:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wi.net (wi.net [204.95.193.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18591; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:43:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from laufen@localhost) Received: from chardonnay.vineyard (207.250.150.33) by wi.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1b5); Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:43:08 -0500 Received: from localhost (derek@localhost) by chardonnay.vineyard (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA00332; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:45:58 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from laufen@localhost) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:45:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Derek Laufenberg X-Sender: derek@chardonnay.vineyard To: laufen@wi.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been reading this thread and finally decided to throw my .02 cents in. I've been a user of FreeBSD for about 3+ years and have watched the OS grow and improve since 2.0. I selected it over linux because it had to me a more reputable background (4.4BSD). Numerous times I have tried to use the product with in a corporate environment and have gotten shot down by bean counters, marketing weenies, and narrow minded Micro$oft share holders I've worked with. For the record, I was with GE - Medical Systems at the time. Let me review a situation or two. Corporations like GE like the warm and fuzzy feeling of having some other legal entity which they can blame should a problem occur. The mindset is that if support is needed, they can go to the company which sells the OS. Even GE has trouble getting useful support form MSFT, but that doesn't stop the big public agreements which force the use of only their products. The source is available line of argument never seemed to help the support objections. I don't know why, since anytime we incorporated a product into one of our products, we would get a source escrow. I guess the source is hard and takes experts to fix. Beleive or not, I had one of the legal staff tell me that with the name "FreeBSD" we shouldn't use it inside one of our products. It implies an inferior level of technology - clearly, a "you get what you pay for" line of thought. (You should have seen him go over the GPL for some compression code one of my engineers incorporated.) I remember the "whats in a name" thread a few years back. I really wished a new "Marketron"(tm) name would have been selected. "Free" in the coporate world is only good if the customer doesn't know it was free. I did manage to get FreeBSD into one product. It slipped by only because it was for a university research program and would have a limited distribution. (oh yea, the M$FT solution would have cost $1000 more) When our group was force fed PCs for SW development, when our primary tools were Sun/Unix. The "correct" solution was to run xterminal software on the PCs connected to a Sun server. Then two sun servers. Soon six sun servers... We were told to stop using Emacs because it was a resource pig... I brought in my own Freebsd box to show an alternative, but I was told corporate policy prevented users from changing the operating system - or even adding personal software. Yes, Dilbert is a documentary. One valid complaint was made, that was that there were no good tools for working with MS-WORD documents. I still think this is true. I run the StarOffice stuff (not available at the time of this incident) now, but find it very slow and not very compatible. Our system adminstrator made the objection the FreeBSD was insecure and should not be used. His theory was that source code was public so it could be hacked... What I think is needed is the following: 1) A corporate release version of product with - Marketron name - Word, Excel, and Win/NT networking work-a-likes - GUI installed at setup (most corporate admins I've worked with can't handle XF86config files.) - include many office/user packages as part of the install - netscape 2) A support company which charges $$$ for support. - advertising (maybe with enough of this "FreeBSD" name can stay) - (800/900) support number - list of corporate users and the products 3) Stable, predictable releases - Ok, we have this. :) 4) GUI admin tools - adduser, backup, DNS for weenies, ... (i've seen some talk, but they need to be incorporated like AIX or Slowaris) 5) simplified printer setup - GUI I'm sure there are hundreds of other "needs" others can come up with. Thanks for letting me vent a bit. I am truely impressed with the quality of FreeBSD. It has the potential to be a silver bullet, but it needs killer applications - WORD & Excel. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Derek Laufenberg Laufenberg Consulting laufen@wi.net Networking, DICOM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 12:45:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19502 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:45:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA19355 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:45:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA21693; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA26614; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <352E76DC.CD55F402@3skel.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:45:32 -0400 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Sue Blake , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <8059.892217571@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I hope to have it in the "print me" pipeline in at least 2 weeks or > less. I'm also open to any sorts of contributions, hacker level > or otherwise. It's a newsletter, not a tech journal. :-) > > jordan My first suggestion/contribution is that we need to coordinate the fostering and formation of FreeBSD user groups. I started this thought about a month ago here for a New York City UG, and am about to push on that. Maybe through the news letter and www.freebsd.org we can encourage and coordinate this. This is a kind of 'think globally, act locally.' Local user groups can take advantage of oportunities to appear and educate. The FreeBSD Inc. side can take responsibility for national/international media. The local UGs will be able to contribute both material as well as momentum to the effort. If there is a consensus, I would be glad to work on this thing. Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 12:48:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20615 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:48:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (tc-64.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.164]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20495 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:48:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA03352 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:47:48 -0300 (ADT) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:47:48 -0300 (ADT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: filename from open file descriptor... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi... I'm trying to debug some code, and have an open file descriptor that I want to find the file name that its associated with... is this possible? my first thought was fstat(), but that appears to return everything but the name :( Thanks... Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 12:50:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21546 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:50:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21480 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:50:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02342; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804101950.NAA02342@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:50:02 -0600 To: Amancio Hasty From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Open Systems Networking , David Shanes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804101918.MAA13936@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:18 PM 4/10/98 -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: >Personally, I setup my modem to answer voice >and receive faxes . My voice mail goes to my MH folder voice and >I also have the capability to mail my voice-messages anywhere that >I want so in theory we can setup you with a remote phone/fax office 8) I'd like to learn how to do this! I knew that Hylafax could do FAX under FreeBSD, but I didn't know there was a voice mail package available. It'd be great to have it go to e-mail. (What kind of app or plug-in would I use to play it?) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 12:51:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21746 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:51:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA21651 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:50:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA10187 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:50:23 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA23457; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:18:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199804101818.UAA23457@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Free PCNFSD Client? In-Reply-To: from "sbabkin@dcn.att.com" at "Apr 10, 98 08:27:12 am" To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:18:22 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kris@airnet.net X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote... > > ---------- > > From: Kris Kirby[SMTP:kris@ninbox.ml.org] > > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 1998 7:21 PM > > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Free PCNFSD Client? > > > > With all this talk about using NetWare servers/clients, I never > > thought > > about the possibility of using PCNFSD... Has anyone seen a free PCNFSD > > client? Packet driver or ODI will do nicely. Thanks. > > > I know about a shareware PCNFS client. Even two. One was xnfs > and was very unstable. I forgot another's name but it's pretty > usable, it works both on top of WatTCP (that works over packet > driver) and Winsockets. If you need it, I can look up it's name > at home (and if you need a somewhat old distribution, I have it too). Wasn't this the bwnfs (Beam & WHiteside (??)) _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl __________________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD ______ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 12:52:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22755 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:52:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22574; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29790; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:50:51 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <352E7819.90A039CA@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:50:51 +0300 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Organization: GlavAPU X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Derek Laufenberg CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Derek Laufenberg wrote: > 4) GUI admin tools - adduser, backup, DNS for weenies, ... > (i've seen some talk, but they need to be incorporated like AIX or > Slowaris) > it means, that base OS must include: 1. X11 2. tk 3. tkperl. 4. local WWW server. Or most of this tools must be rewriteln. -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:01:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25195 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:01:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25178; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:01:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from notwerk@calweb.com) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA23672; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:01:45 -0700 (PDT) X-SMTP: helo web1.calweb.com from notwerk@calweb.com server notwerk@web1.calweb.com ip 208.131.56.51 Received: (from notwerk@localhost) by web1.calweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA27869; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:01:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980410130143.40104@calweb.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:01:43 -0700 From: Giao Nguyen To: Derek Laufenberg Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Derek Laufenberg on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 02:45:58PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Derek Laufenberg said: > > Corporations like GE like the warm and fuzzy feeling of having some other > legal entity which they can blame should a problem occur. The mindset is The really interesting thing is that if you read the Microsoft license agreement, the software is sold as-is. No warrantees expressed or implied. MS isn't responsible for anything that happens when you use their software. So how legally responsible is it if a MS driven missile range crashes and hoses the local neighborhood vs. a FreeBSD driven missle range crashes and hoses all the neighborhoods? Nothing! See, part of the problem is that no one reads these damn licenses. Being a former contract legalese speaking pointy-hair-induvidual, I've read through the MS license. And it doesn't give you jack but the rights to have their intellectual property on your machines. > that if support is needed, they can go to the company which sells the OS. > Even GE has trouble getting useful support form MSFT, but that doesn't > stop the big public agreements which force the use of only their > products. But FreeBSD does have support. Walnut Creek does have support lines for FreeBSD and Linux. Jordan, correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe we need some marketing to say "Oh, and by the way, support if available from Walnut Creek." FreeBSD sells and Walnut Creek picks up the pennies too. > I did manage to get FreeBSD into one product. It slipped by only because > it was for a university research program and would have a limited > distribution. (oh yea, the M$FT solution would have cost $1000 more) A company I was with used FreeBSD to develop Java code that was eventually pushed onto the Windows desktop. I loved it. The ultimate irony. I pay $0 for development tools and sold this project with very little overhead. > What I think is needed is the following: > 1) A corporate release version of product with > - Marketron name I'm all in favor of a marketron name. Like maybe FreeBSD98. Just kidding! > - Word, Excel, and Win/NT networking work-a-likes My pick for this category has always been Applixware. I should point out that most people will never use a Unix on the desktop so this is a moot point. I'd like to see more servers, more services, and stupid OS tricks. > - GUI installed at setup > (most corporate admins I've worked with can't handle > XF86config files.) That's what Xig is for. Select, select, select, run. > - include many office/user packages as part of the install > - netscape > 2) A support company which charges $$$ for support. > - advertising (maybe with enough of this "FreeBSD" name can stay) > - (800/900) support number > - list of corporate users and the products We have a list of corporate users on www.freebsd.org. > 3) Stable, predictable releases - Ok, we have this. :) > 4) GUI admin tools - adduser, backup, DNS for weenies, ... > (i've seen some talk, but they need to be incorporated like AIX or > Slowaris) Not hard. I've got an implementation of adduser running around out there somewhere. I am *cry* without a FreeBSD boxen these days so I haven't a thing to develope with. And in that case, the end users would need Motif or some other nasties. Now, if only we could deliver the JDK on the CD's. I could whip up a ava based set of tools in no time. I don't know if the current JDK license allows Walnut Creek to do this. > 5) simplified printer setup - GUI > > I'm sure there are hundreds of other "needs" others can come up with. > > Thanks for letting me vent a bit. I am truely impressed with the quality > of FreeBSD. It has the potential to be a silver bullet, but it needs > killer applications - WORD & Excel. We don't need no silly Word & Excel. We've got sendmail. :) Giao Nguyen -- If God had meant you to get it right the first time, He would not have put "alter table" into SQL. -- Philip Greenspun, "How to be a Web Whore Just Like Me" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:02:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25811 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:02:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from makai.maui.net (makai.maui.net [206.154.205.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25719 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:02:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langfod@makai.maui.net) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by makai.maui.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA03637; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:01:54 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199804102001.KAA03637@makai.maui.net> Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: from Richard Wackerbarth at "Apr 10, 98 05:11:05 am" To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:01:54 -1000 (HST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 4:23 AM -0500 4/10/98, John Birrell wrote: >Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Because I didn't want it to be part of the standard CVS repository, >> for obvious reasons (it doesn't belong there), and that meant creating >> a new repository wherever there was sufficient space to host it. >> Bento had sufficient space. :) > >Why doesn't it belong in the standard CVS repository? >It's just another src/contrib. 8-) Wait a minute. You want to include a BROWSER in the base OS? Didnt someone else get in trouble for that recently :) -David Langford To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:10:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27705 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:10:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw2.att.com [192.128.52.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA27643 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:09:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw2.att.com; Fri Apr 10 16:05 EDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by caig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id QAA19136 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:09:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <2MVXCA1K>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:09:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kris@airnet.net Subject: RE: Free PCNFSD Client? Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:09:42 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Wilko Bulte[SMTP:wilko@yedi.iaf.nl] > > > I know about a shareware PCNFS client. Even two. One was xnfs > > and was very unstable. I forgot another's name but it's pretty > > usable, it works both on top of WatTCP (that works over packet > > driver) and Winsockets. If you need it, I can look up it's name > > at home (and if you need a somewhat old distribution, I have it > too). > > Wasn't this the bwnfs (Beam & WHiteside (??)) > No. As far as I know, bwnfs is using protocol different from pcnfs and has its own daemon on Unix side. I'll look up the name of this NFS client at home. Serge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:11:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28180 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:11:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28144 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:11:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13936; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:18:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804101918.MAA13936@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Open Systems Networking , David Shanes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:35:21 MDT." <199804101835.MAA01289@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:18:35 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We can set up a support group for you. All you have to do is lead. The list of press contacts in computer usage is probably small and I am sure that one of our database experts can help out setup a database if necessary. What we can not setup easily is a person to manage the list of contacts . For instance , point out a good press contact, stay out from this press contact because they are too in bed with Microsoft or has a bad press reputation,etc.. As for the fax , we should talk to Jordan about that . It is trivial to setup a hylafax server which you can access from the comfort of your workstation. Personally, I setup my modem to answer voice and receive faxes . My voice mail goes to my MH folder voice and I also have the capability to mail my voice-messages anywhere that I want so in theory we can setup you with a remote phone/fax office 8) If things shall go well I will like then to see a piece on you after a month or probably two months. A Day with Brett Glass in CyberSpace. If it is done well it can blow peoples mind away . Tnks!!! Amancio > At 12:36 AM 4/10/98 -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > >So how about it Brett, can you help or one of your buddies ? > > Sure! I've had jobs where I've written press releases before, and > I'm confident that I can write releases that journalists will use > (since I am one myself). > > After that, though, we'll need to deal with another issue. As my > high school biology teacher once quipped, "Every man has enough > genetic material to impregnate every woman on the planet. It's a, > er, distribution problem." > > The same is true of press releases. Getting and maintaining a good > list of press contacts -- and mailing, FAXing, or e-mailing them > regularly, would be key to the effort. > > --Brett > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:14:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28801 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:14:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA28783 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:14:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id UAA08791; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:42:57 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804101842.UAA08791@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Free PCNFSD Client? To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:42:56 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kris@airnet.net In-Reply-To: <199804101818.UAA23457@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Apr 10, 98 08:18:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > As sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote... ... > > I know about a shareware PCNFS client. Even two. One was xnfs > > and was very unstable. I forgot another's name but it's pretty > > usable, it works both on top of WatTCP (that works over packet > > driver) and Winsockets. If you need it, I can look up it's name > > at home (and if you need a somewhat old distribution, I have it too). > > Wasn't this the bwnfs (Beam & WHiteside (??)) BWNFS (Beame&Whiteside) was commercial, not shareware. We bought several licences back in 1992/93 i believe. It was good stuff at the time under DOS. cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:19:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29551 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:19:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wi.net (wi.net [204.95.193.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29538 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:18:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from laufen@localhost) Received: from chardonnay.vineyard (207.250.150.33) by wi.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1b5); Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:18:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (derek@localhost) by chardonnay.vineyard (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA00428; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:22:38 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from laufen@localhost) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:22:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Derek Laufenberg X-Sender: derek@chardonnay.vineyard To: Adam Turoff cc: Frank Pawlak , "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <352E6110@smginc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Adam Turoff wrote: > > Could we ask Walnut Creek to be the FreeBSD sugar daddy? Caldera, > RedHat and SuSE make money off of selling CDs but frequently drop off > a case of current or near-current CDs for user groups to give away. I > think > I picked up 3 CDs of Caldera OpenLinux 1.1 from a recent > tradeshow - one from LXNY and one or two from the Caldera booth. > RedHat was there and may have had some CDs to give away too. > > (Remember, Linux CDs make great coasters!) You mean Windows - converting a Linux user is much easier than converting a windows user. > > Walnut Creek is shipping 2.2.6 RSN, and in an ideal world there would > be no inventory of 2.2.5 left. Realistically, there must be a few > cases of CDs collecting dust or waiting to be destroyed. I for one > would volunteer to be one of a group of Johnny FreeBSDseeds around > the world giving away FreeBSD-(N-1)-RELEASE CDs. Worst case, > it might get installed and Walnut Creek would have someone > buying the Book/CD combo of FreeBSD-(N)-RELEASE and possibly > N+1. > > Hell. If Walnut Creek doesn't want to do it, why not just set up a > PO Box to send your recently-obsoleted CD sets for > evangelical redistribution? I give away my old release disks to friends all the time. Its a good way to get converts. > > Evangelism doesn't _need_ to cost lots of money or become a jihad. > > The Linux movement is doing some things well. If we can't learn > from them it's our own damn fault. > > -- Adam. Agreed. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Derek Laufenberg Laufenberg Consulting laufen@wi.net Networking, DICOM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:19:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29708 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:19:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw1.att.com [192.128.133.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA29604 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw1.att.com; Fri Apr 10 15:19 CDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by kcig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id PAA22923 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:18:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <2MVXCAFQ>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:18:52 -0400 Message-ID: To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kris@airnet.net Subject: RE: Free PCNFSD Client? Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:18:49 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Wilko Bulte[SMTP:wilko@yedi.iaf.nl] > > > I know about a shareware PCNFS client. Even two. One was xnfs > > and was very unstable. I forgot another's name but it's pretty > > usable, it works both on top of WatTCP (that works over packet > > driver) and Winsockets. If you need it, I can look up it's name > > at home (and if you need a somewhat old distribution, I have it > too). > > Wasn't this the bwnfs (Beam & WHiteside (??)) > I was able to find a pointer to XFS (not xnfs, indeed) on Internet: http://www.biostat.washington.edu/pc/pcnfs.html Last time I tried it 4 years ago with DOS and it worked fine until I tried to use the floppy drive: in this case the machine just hang up. And I promise once more to search for another one at home. :-) Serge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:21:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00547 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:21:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00444 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:21:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14378; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:20:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804102020.NAA14378@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Open Systems Networking , David Shanes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:50:02 MDT." <199804101950.NAA02342@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:20:37 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I use mgetty+vgetty to manage my phone. Hylafax has the capability to launch vgetty however I have not play with that setup . Usually for faxing out I just launch Hylafax and kill vgetty. Perhaps, this weekend I will play more with Hylafax to figure out how it can launch vgetty when it detects voice. You can play any greeting message that you like including randomly select your greeting message.It should be possible to setup vgetty with voice boxes for your favorite contacts . vgetty answers the phone and detects fax or voice. When vgetty gets a voice message streams it encapsulates the stream into a mime message then it mails to me . This is action is simply performed by a default script which vgetty invokes after receiving a voice message. My mail reader is exmh a tcl/tk front-end to MH. I have my exmh setup so that when I click on my voice folder, the voice messages are displayed as: Play attached audio Save audio file You click on "Play Attached Audio" and it invokes NCD's network audio player which has the capability to go play at any point in the audio stream by bracketing the audio stream. If you like , see : ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/Voice.FAQ it is outdated however it will give you an idea of how to set it up. It is possible to setup vgetty with a voice menu. With the obvious advantage that you have a whole OS to play with . If there is interest , I can gather the latest mgetty+vgetty distributions and generate a nice user friendly package. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:27:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02244 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:27:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02086 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01005; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804102023.NAA01005@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mark Mayo cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:50:02 EDT." <19980409235002.26337@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:23:44 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, Apr 09, 1998 at 08:36:16PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > I thought we had a volunteer? > > > > If it is not up tonite then lets get going !! > > Indeed. Time is very critical here - we need to be able to push the > "FreeBSD provides world-wide mirroring and source code revision > architecture for Mozilla.org" PR headlines. > > Get this up right away, spam the news group at mozilla.org, and send > out PRs to news.com, infoworld.com, etc, etc.. Netscape are actually very keen to use CVSup for source distribution; they fully appreciate the importance of this. It may well be that the best move would be to offer space/bandwidth on the FreeBSD mirrors (as well as CVSup experience) to them, and make it clear that we're doing this as a partnership. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:32:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03419 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:32:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA03306 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:31:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id VAA08849; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:00:33 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804101900.VAA08849@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: PnP driver question To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:00:32 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804101830.LAA05807@bubba.whistle.com> from "Archie Cobbs" at Apr 10, 98 11:30:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > - the attach routine does all the initialization. Unfortunately > > there is no check on the return code from the isa attach routine, > > so you cannot report up if the attach fails... > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > This is precisely the problem. The same thing was discussed in july (look from a thread in -hackers titled "snd driver attach routine" around july 14th.) >From what i remember (and the emails i archived): In a perfect world, the attach routine should return a failure code. The caller could then free resources, etc. and make them available for the rest of the system. However, at the moment our code does not do anything of the above, and the driver knows what to do incase of a failure, (e.g. free resources, and mark the open routine for the device to fail). So, until there is a better resource management structure (I am not saying it is useful), there is no point in making the attach return a failure, since it would not be handled. So it is still reasonable to let the driver handle the failure, even if the caller is not notified. cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:43:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05996 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:43:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05795 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:43:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA29852; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:40:08 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <352E83A1.EA30AB48@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:40:05 +0300 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Organization: GlavAPU X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: Nate Williams , John Birrell , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? References: <199804101813.LAA13443@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > I of course can ask Sun to see what they think about the idea 8) But JRE have more liberal license, so it is possible to develop Java stuff on other platform and test it on FreeBSD. > Amancio > ? ? For your info , given that the Net seems to be slow at bringing in > ? ? Java back into Mozilla , I am thinking of doing it. > ? > ? For what it's worth, if you do it (given that you have access to the > ? FreeBSD JDK), you'll potentially be sued by Sun, since you can' t use > ? their technology except for 'educational' purposes with the current > ? license scheme we've all signed. > ? > ? And, I'd have to yank your CVS priviledges to the tree and ask you to > ? delete the FreeBSD bits. :( > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? Nate > ? > ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > ? with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > ? > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:50:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07526 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:50:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (host77-156.airnet.net [209.64.77.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07330 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:49:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@ninbox.ml.org) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00294; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:48:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <352E85A7.64B5D374@ninbox.ml.org> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:48:39 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Langford CC: Richard Wackerbarth , jb@cimlogic.com.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? References: <199804102001.KAA03637@makai.maui.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Langford wrote: > > At 4:23 AM -0500 4/10/98, John Birrell wrote: > >Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> Because I didn't want it to be part of the standard CVS repository, > >> for obvious reasons (it doesn't belong there), and that meant creating > >> a new repository wherever there was sufficient space to host it. > >> Bento had sufficient space. :) > > > >Why doesn't it belong in the standard CVS repository? > >It's just another src/contrib. 8-) > > Wait a minute. You want to include a BROWSER in the base OS? > > Didnt someone else get in trouble for that recently :) Yeah, and Janet Reno is trying to micro-manage (no pun intended) that company... -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:51:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07789 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:51:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07602; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:50:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09467; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:50:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:50:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua cc: Derek Laufenberg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <352E7819.90A039CA@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > Derek Laufenberg wrote: > > 4) GUI admin tools - adduser, backup, DNS for weenies, ... > > (i've seen some talk, but they need to be incorporated like AIX or > > Slowaris) > it means, that base OS must include: 1. X11 > 2. tk > 3. tkperl. > 4. local WWW server. > > Or most of this tools must be rewriteln. Anyone who is interested in writing GUI apps but is annoyed with TK should check out the Perl bindings for GTK. Its -slick-. http://www.gtk.org/ /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:52:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08053 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:52:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (root@piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07866 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:51:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) Received: from scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se (md6tommy@scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.20]) by piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA15388 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:51:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (md6tommy@localhost) by scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA21470 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:51:28 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se: md6tommy owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:51:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: Tommy Hallgren To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Uniform Driver Interface Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Maybe this is of interest: http://www.sco.com/UDI/ Portable device driver. Tommy Hallgren(md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) - the source of all good beers... Go to http://www.freebsd.org and get real BSD Unix. Today! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:53:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08222 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:53:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08089 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:52:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA03877; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:52:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980410155205.57649@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:52:05 -0500 From: dannyman To: John Birrell , Amancio Hasty Cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: mozilla motif -> gtk Mail-Followup-To: John Birrell , Amancio Hasty , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199804100703.AAA10494@rah.star-gate.com> <199804100714.RAA00910@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804100714.RAA00910@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 05:14:40PM +1000 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 05:14:40PM +1000, John Birrell wrote: > My stumbling block is Motif. > I won't buy from Xig because they penalize me for not being american. > They want to charge me US$40 more for the same english language product. I hope I'm not the first to suggest this, but the gtk folks, or is it the qt folks? Well, whoever it is they've ported Netscape, albeit somewhat crudely yet, to their toolkit already, to the tune of a slightly prettier interface and a leaner executable. I could scratch up the URL if you haven't been told about it already. :) -dan -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 13:54:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08557 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:54:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fubar.campus.luth.se (news@fubar.campus.luth.se [130.240.196.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08335 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:53:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from news@sno.pp.se) Received: (from news@localhost) by fubar.campus.luth.se (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA22968 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:53:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from GATEWAY by snopp with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: 10 Apr 1998 20:53:47 GMT From: Johan Larsson Message-ID: <6gm0sr$mc9$1@fubar.campus.luth.se> Organization: moon.pp.se References: <19980410163833.44538@panke.de>, <199804101845.LAA13773@rah.star-gate.com> Subject: Re: mozilla-all 8) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > How do I access the mozilla distribution with cvsup? > Just as Wolfram say in the mail you answered on: I setup a cvsup mirror for mozilla-cvs. host: cvsup.de.freebsd.org collection: mozilla-all Update is twice a day at 05:50 and 17:50 middle european summer time (UTC+0200, 3:50 and 15:50 UTC). -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/ > > Tnks! > Amancio > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Johan -- * mailto:johan@moon.pp.se * http://www.moon.pp.se/johan/ * * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ -+-+-+ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 14:02:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10630 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:02:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10363 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:02:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id QAA07057; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:01:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980410160149.08899@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:01:49 -0500 From: dannyman To: Jonathan Lemon , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. Mail-Followup-To: Jonathan Lemon , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <9653.892233276@time.cdrom.com> <19980410133836.34494@right.PCS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980410133836.34494@right.PCS>; from Jonathan Lemon on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 01:38:36PM -0500 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 01:38:36PM -0500, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > On Apr 04, 1998 at 11:34:36AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > This is what the cvsup entries should look like: > > > > *default prefix=/home/mozilla base=/home/mozilla host=mozilla.FreeBSD.org release=cvs delete compress use-rel-suffix > > > > ## Main Source Tree > > cvs-mozilla > > > > To sync with the freebsd-mozilla source tree available from > > mozilla.freebsd.org. Any questions? > > Press release! Press release! :-) :-) :-) I'll be working one up tomorrow. :) -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 14:05:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11388 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:05:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11188 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:04:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03155; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:03:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804102103.PAA03155@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:03:52 -0600 To: Amancio Hasty From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Open Systems Networking , David Shanes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804102020.NAA14378@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio: This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that would get great publicity for FreeBSD. Imagine being able to say, "Set up a FreeBSD system with this package, and you'll be able to retrieve your incoming voice mail, FAX, and e-mail using your browser's e-mail client!" That's enough motivation to get people to set up a FreeBSD server even if their desktop machine has to run something like Windows. --Brett At 01:20 PM 4/10/98 -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > >Hi, > >I use mgetty+vgetty to manage my phone. Hylafax has the capability to >launch vgetty however I have not play with that setup . Usually for >faxing out I just launch Hylafax and kill vgetty. Perhaps, this >weekend I will play more with Hylafax to figure out how it >can launch vgetty when it detects voice. > >You can play any greeting message that you like including randomly >select your greeting message.It should be possible to setup vgetty >with voice boxes for your favorite contacts . > > >vgetty answers the phone and detects fax or voice. When vgetty gets a voice >message streams it encapsulates the stream into a mime message then >it mails to me . This is action is simply performed by a default script >which vgetty invokes after receiving a voice message. > My mail reader is exmh a tcl/tk front-end to MH. > >I have my exmh setup so that when I click on my voice folder, the voice >messages are displayed as: > > Play attached audio > > Save audio file > >You click on "Play Attached Audio" and it invokes NCD's network audio player >which has the capability to go play at any point in the audio stream >by bracketing the audio stream. > >If you like , see : ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/Voice.FAQ it is outdated >however it will give you an idea of how to set it up. > >It is possible to setup vgetty with a voice menu. With the obvious advantage >that you have a whole OS to play with . > > >If there is interest , I can gather the latest mgetty+vgetty distributions >and generate a nice user friendly package. > > > Cheers, > Amancio > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 14:06:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11665 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:06:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11469 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:05:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA03205; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:05:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA21206; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:04:55 -0600 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:04:55 -0600 Message-Id: <199804102104.PAA21206@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Cc: Amancio Hasty , Nate Williams , John Birrell , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <352E83A1.EA30AB48@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> References: <199804101813.LAA13443@rah.star-gate.com> <352E83A1.EA30AB48@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > But JRE have more liberal license, so it is possible to > develop Java stuff on other platform and test it on FreeBSD. Sure, but you can't use the Sun sources to develop a Java VM, even with the JRE. You can distrubute the SUN JRE along with any product, which is what the Java Activator for netscape essentially does now. If you want to modify netscape to use the JRE, that's completely acceptable. But, developing a new Java VM inside of netscape if you have access to Sun's sources using the 'educational' licensing is strictly prohibited, no mater how good your intentions are. And, you can develop stuff on FreeBSD legally using the JDK on FreeBSD, you just can bundle the JDK with your product. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 14:07:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12221 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:07:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11890; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:06:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14619; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804102105.OAA14619@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, Derek Laufenberg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:50:00 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:05:59 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just do Java.... The jdk is available at http://www.freebsd.org/java Use whatever Java IDE tool you like be it in Win95 , SunOS , FreeBSD. I recently posted how to get Java Workshop 2.0 running on FreeBSD. There is also a JACE a java version of the C++ library ACE, Adaptive Communication Environment. Has anyone played with IBM's SanFrancisco ? it is large java class package oriented for business applications. Track inventories, sales invoice,etc.. Amancio > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > Derek Laufenberg wrote: > > > 4) GUI admin tools - adduser, backup, DNS for weenies, ... > > > (i've seen some talk, but they need to be incorporated like AIX or > > > Slowaris) > > it means, that base OS must include: 1. X11 > > 2. tk > > 3. tkperl. > > 4. local WWW server. > > > > Or most of this tools must be rewriteln. > > Anyone who is interested in writing GUI apps but is annoyed with TK should > check out the Perl bindings for GTK. Its -slick-. > > http://www.gtk.org/ > > /* > Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life > winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to > http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 > */ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 14:10:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13150 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:10:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12908 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:09:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14670; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:09:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804102109.OAA14670@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Open Systems Networking , David Shanes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:03:52 MDT." <199804102103.PAA03155@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:09:23 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Aye, Aye, Captain! I will start working on it this weekend and you can consider it done . Tnks! Amancio > Amancio: > > This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that would get great publicity for > FreeBSD. Imagine being able to say, "Set up a FreeBSD system with > this package, and you'll be able to retrieve your incoming voice mail, > FAX, and e-mail using your browser's e-mail client!" That's enough > motivation to get people to set up a FreeBSD server even if their > desktop machine has to run something like Windows. > > --Brett > > > At 01:20 PM 4/10/98 -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > >Hi, > > > >I use mgetty+vgetty to manage my phone. Hylafax has the capability to > >launch vgetty however I have not play with that setup . Usually for > >faxing out I just launch Hylafax and kill vgetty. Perhaps, this > >weekend I will play more with Hylafax to figure out how it > >can launch vgetty when it detects voice. > > > >You can play any greeting message that you like including randomly > >select your greeting message.It should be possible to setup vgetty > >with voice boxes for your favorite contacts . > > > > > >vgetty answers the phone and detects fax or voice. When vgetty gets a voice > >message streams it encapsulates the stream into a mime message then > >it mails to me . This is action is simply performed by a default script > >which vgetty invokes after receiving a voice message. > > My mail reader is exmh a tcl/tk front-end to MH. > > > >I have my exmh setup so that when I click on my voice folder, the voice > >messages are displayed as: > > > > Play attached audio > > > > Save audio file > > > >You click on "Play Attached Audio" and it invokes NCD's network audio player > >which has the capability to go play at any point in the audio stream > >by bracketing the audio stream. > > > >If you like , see : ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/Voice.FAQ it is outdated > >however it will give you an idea of how to set it up. > > > >It is possible to setup vgetty with a voice menu. With the obvious advantage > >that you have a whole OS to play with . > > > > > >If there is interest , I can gather the latest mgetty+vgetty distributions > >and generate a nice user friendly package. > > > > > > Cheers, > > Amancio > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 14:12:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13536 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:12:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13241; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:11:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA09841; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:10:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Amancio Hasty cc: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, Derek Laufenberg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804102105.OAA14619@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Just do Java.... I believe the context was System Administration front end tools. Why use Java for that? The Perl/GTK stuff has got to be lighter weight/faster. :) And its Perl. :) > > The jdk is available at http://www.freebsd.org/java > > Use whatever Java IDE tool you like be it in Win95 , SunOS , FreeBSD. > > I recently posted how to get Java Workshop 2.0 running on FreeBSD. > > There is also a JACE a java version of the C++ library ACE, Adaptive > Communication Environment. > > Has anyone played with IBM's SanFrancisco ? it is large java class package > oriented for business applications. Track inventories, sales invoice,etc.. > > > > Amancio > > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > > Derek Laufenberg wrote: > > > > 4) GUI admin tools - adduser, backup, DNS for weenies, ... > > > > (i've seen some talk, but they need to be incorporated like AIX or > > > > Slowaris) > > > it means, that base OS must include: 1. X11 > > > 2. tk > > > 3. tkperl. > > > 4. local WWW server. > > > > > > Or most of this tools must be rewriteln. > > > > Anyone who is interested in writing GUI apps but is annoyed with TK should > > check out the Perl bindings for GTK. Its -slick-. > > > > http://www.gtk.org/ > > > > /* > > Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life > > winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to > > http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 > > */ > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 14:13:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13914 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:13:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13593; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:12:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA03266; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:12:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA21255; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:11:58 -0600 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:11:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199804102111.PAA21255@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Giao Nguyen Cc: Derek Laufenberg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <19980410130143.40104@calweb.com> References: <19980410130143.40104@calweb.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Now, if only we could deliver the JDK on the CD's. I could whip up a > Java based set of tools in no time. I don't know if the current JDK > license allows Walnut Creek to do this. They can include the JRE on the CD, and we even have one for you to use. (Legally, with absolutely no problem.) We can even bundle it with the base OS *except* for the requirement that anything in the base OS must be compiled from source (a requirement I agree with), and that isn't going to happen anytime in the near future. :( Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 15:12:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25203 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:12:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25142; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:11:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14896; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:11:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804102211.PAA14896@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, Derek Laufenberg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:10:15 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:11:22 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The huge support infrastructure currently being build around Java and the cross platform IDEs. Just code up in Java. Tnks, Amancio > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Just do Java.... > > I believe the context was System Administration front end tools. > > Why use Java for that? The Perl/GTK stuff has got to be lighter > weight/faster. :) > > And its Perl. :) > > > > > The jdk is available at http://www.freebsd.org/java > > > > Use whatever Java IDE tool you like be it in Win95 , SunOS , FreeBSD. > > > > I recently posted how to get Java Workshop 2.0 running on FreeBSD. > > > > There is also a JACE a java version of the C++ library ACE, Adaptive > > Communication Environment. > > > > Has anyone played with IBM's SanFrancisco ? it is large java class package > > oriented for business applications. Track inventories, sales invoice,etc.. > > > > > > > > Amancio > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > > > Derek Laufenberg wrote: > > > > > 4) GUI admin tools - adduser, backup, DNS for weenies, ... > > > > > (i've seen some talk, but they need to be incorporated like AIX or > > > > > Slowaris) > > > > it means, that base OS must include: 1. X11 > > > > 2. tk > > > > 3. tkperl. > > > > 4. local WWW server. > > > > > > > > Or most of this tools must be rewriteln. > > > > > > Anyone who is interested in writing GUI apps but is annoyed with TK should > > > check out the Perl bindings for GTK. Its -slick-. > > > > > > http://www.gtk.org/ > > > > > > /* > > > Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life > > > winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to > > > http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 > > > */ > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > /* > Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life > winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to > http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 > */ > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 15:15:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26360 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:15:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26321 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14930; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:15:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804102215.PAA14930@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Johan Larsson cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mozilla-all 8) In-reply-to: Your message of "10 Apr 1998 20:53:47 GMT." <6gm0sr$mc9$1@fubar.campus.luth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:15:01 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tnks . Use JKHs instruction and managed to create mozilla tree with no hazzles . For future reference avoid useless circular responses. It is obvious that I needed another little pointer to access the cvs repository. Regards, Amancio > Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > How do I access the mozilla distribution with cvsup? > > > > Just as Wolfram say in the mail you answered on: > > I setup a cvsup mirror for mozilla-cvs. > > host: cvsup.de.freebsd.org > collection: mozilla-all > > Update is twice a day at 05:50 and 17:50 middle european > summer time (UTC+0200, 3:50 and 15:50 UTC). > > -- > Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/ > > > > > Tnks! > > Amancio > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > Johan > -- > * mailto:johan@moon.pp.se * http://www.moon.pp.se/johan/ * > * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ -+-+-+ * > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 15:18:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26972 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:18:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26958 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:18:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29468; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:18:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd029438; Fri Apr 10 15:18:24 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA01789; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:18:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804102218.PAA01789@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: filename from open file descriptor... To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:18:22 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "The Hermit Hacker" at Apr 10, 98 04:47:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm trying to debug some code, and have an open file descriptor > that I want to find the file name that its associated with... > > is this possible? my first thought was fstat(), but that appears > to return everything but the name :( You remember the name when you open the file. Untested: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- /* * This code is relased under BSD licensce in the name of Terrence * Lambert. Please place appropriate license text into any released * version of this software. */ static char **saved_open_names; /* * Overrides weak "open" symbol from libc */ int open( const char *path, int flags, mode_t mode) { int rv; if( saved_open_names == NULL) { int count; count = getdtablesize(); saved_open_names = (char **)calloc( count, sizeof(char *)); } if( saved_open_names == NULL) { rv = -1; errno = ENOMEM; } else { char *p; if( ( p = strdup( path)) == NULL) { rv = -1; errno = ENOMEM; } else { if( ( rv = syscall( SYS_open, path, flags, mode)) == -1) { free( p); } else { if( saved_open_names[ rv] != NULL) { /* could implement 'close' instead...*/ free( saved_open_names[ rv]); } saved_open_names[ rv] = p; } } } return( rv); } /* * New call... */ char * fdname( int fd) { char *rv = NULL; if( saved_open_names != NULL) { if( fd >= 0 && fd < getdtablesize()) { rv = saved_open_names[ fd]; } } return( rv); } ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 15:51:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01610 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01586; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:51:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804102251.PAA01586@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. In-Reply-To: <199804101903.MAA13870@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 10, 98 12:03:44 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG the freebsd-mozilla list is now open for business. subscribe to freebsd-mozilla. mozilla is a mail shortcut only...it is a closed list consisting of freebsd-mozilla@freebsd.org. send mail to either: freebsd-mozilla@freebsd.org or: mozilla@freebsd.org enjoy.....with all this energy, how could i delay? jmb Amancio Hasty wrote: > Most Cool! > > I am cvsupping mozilla as I write this . > > After the dust settles we need > > 1. http://www.freebsd.org/Mozilla web page > The Power to Serve Mozilla world wide > a pointer to the nice long list of world wide freebsd sup servers > > 2. quick intructions on what the fields > base > prefix > release > > 3. in the same page an html pointer to an html version of cvsup > > > 4. Press Release > > 5. Post to the appropiate mozilla news group > > Tnks! > Amancio > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 16:00:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03604 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:00:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bookcase.com (root@notes.bookcase.com [207.22.115.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03569 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:00:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chadf@bookcase.com) Received: from localhost (chadf@localhost) by bookcase.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA02915 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:59:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chadf@bookcase.com) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:59:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Chad M. Fraleigh" X-Sender: chadf@notes To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bcopy implementation In-Reply-To: <199804031420.QAA05837@ocean.campus.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > According to Dave Marquardt: > Well, if you want everything to go faster, you optimize for the hardware > you're actually gonna run on. Now, it would be quite possible too add > ifdefs so that you would add -DOPTIMIZE_FOR_PENTIUM to CFLAGS in make.conf > and then make world. And libc would be compiled with that optimization, etc. If you were only to do this for the shared libc, and not the static one it should be rather safe. That way someone can't statically link a binary, then copy it to another non-Pentium FreeBSD system without realizing the mistake. Is there a define set to differenciate when doing shared vs static lib compiles? (I would assume there is, but I've never looked). -Chad To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 16:13:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07041 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:13:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06953 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:13:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21383; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:53:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd021316; Fri Apr 10 14:53:47 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA29903; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:53:34 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804102153.OAA29903@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:53:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804101903.MAA13870@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Apr 10, 98 12:03:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > After the dust settles we need > > 1. http://www.freebsd.org/Mozilla web page > The Power to Serve Mozilla world wide > a pointer to the nice long list of world wide freebsd sup servers > > 2. quick intructions on what the fields > base > prefix > release > > 3. in the same page an html pointer to an html version of cvsup 3.5. Access to binaries for cvsup for various platforms. > 4. Press Release > > 5. Post to the appropiate mozilla news group Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 16:38:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11839 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:38:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fubar.campus.luth.se (news@fubar.campus.luth.se [130.240.196.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11650 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:37:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from news@sno.pp.se) Received: (from news@localhost) by fubar.campus.luth.se (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA24263 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:37:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from GATEWAY by snopp with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: 10 Apr 1998 23:37:54 GMT From: Johan Larsson Message-ID: <6gmagi$nln$1@fubar.campus.luth.se> Organization: moon.pp.se References: <199804101903.MAA13870@rah.star-gate.com>, <199804102153.OAA29903@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: >> After the dust settles we need >> >> 1. http://www.freebsd.org/Mozilla web page >> The Power to Serve Mozilla world wide >> a pointer to the nice long list of world wide freebsd sup servers >> >> 2. quick intructions on what the fields >> base >> prefix >> release >> >> 3. in the same page an html pointer to an html version of cvsup > > 3.5. Access to binaries for cvsup for various platforms. This is one important thing, i know people that runs for example linux and don't want to install modula-3. They just want simple binaries (i have not been able to find one for linux for example). > >> 4. Press Release >> >> 5. Post to the appropiate mozilla news group > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Johan -- * mailto:johan@moon.pp.se * http://www.moon.pp.se/johan/ * * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ -+-+-+ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 16:53:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14732 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:53:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.16.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14702; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:53:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (cadezia-67.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.82.67]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.8.8) id SAA20594; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:53:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06404; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:53:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Message-Id: <199804102353.SAA06404@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:53:04 -0500 (CDT) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: danj@3skel.com, fpawlak@execpc.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <6091.892193519@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.2-971023-FreeBSD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > We should conduct a census! Put it on the website, in the FTP > banners on > > wcarchive, > > in the CDROMs. > > I show 25,000 users currently registered with us. > > Jordan No question that this is the tip of the iceberg. The trick is to define the size of the iceberg. However, that may not be an issue in this case if the objective is to gain exposure in professional circles and expand the user base. The facts are that we do have installations that handle heavy traffic loads very well, and the FreeBSD is a pedigree UNIX operating System that is stable. That stability and power results directly from the FreeBSD development model. The installed based is a picture of where the product is and is a launch pad for the strategic objectives of increased exposure and user expansion. Follows are some personal opinions regarding a highly charged atmosphere, not inventations to flames. Please take them as they are intended. I have a love of the BSD UNIX platform and word hate to witness its demise. I am not a developer, but have experience in sales and launching consulting practice areas. Neither of these make me a marketing expert, but I do have some knowledge of how the game is played. Firstly. I have read with great interest the situation regarding Netscape and the ORA conference. There appears to be an issue here with the GPL and BSD license process. These are issues that I don't pretend to fully understand, and have the feeling that religious issues are inter mingled with the facts. If the facts when viewed from a business point of view clearly indicate the GPL to be detrimental to the future of Netscape and free software in general, then it behooves someone from the FreeBSD group knowledgeable in the specifics and with a cool head to make the business case to Netscape. The question in my mind given the religious issues involved, is by not going with the GPL will that alienate a large part of the free software hacker community. A clear reflection by those knowledgeable in the issues can make that clear. Netscape will only be interested in the business issues and where the are going to get maximum developer support. Erik Raymond's paper, regardless if the perception is accurate or not, makes a compelling case for the Linux development model. Even though there are various distros of Linux, at present binary compatibility is largely not an issue. Secondly. A free software product stands zero chance of entering the corporate world at the top. No IS director or CIO will put their career on the line to save a relatively small part of the IS budget. They will demand someone be behind then to take the bullet when the wheels fall off as they inevitably will. I sold IBM PCs in the early days before they became ubiquitous. They did not enter the business world through the IS window. They were brought in the back door via fudge factored copier budgets and the like. IS directors and CIOs detested the things for any number of reasons. Free software is going to enter via the same route, through the geeks. There is a new generation filling the ranks of the corporate IS world, that has been raised with the PC as a standard computing fixture. This represents a paradigm shift in the computing world. Based on this the window of opportunity is opening for the introduction of free software into the mainstream. But the fact remains that business critical applications will remain on commercial platforms for at least the near future. It is my understanding that Linux is being used for relatively low end server applications -- print servers etc., -- and web servers in limited cases. There may be cases of it being uses as a development platforms, as several vendors of development tools are porting to Linux. Thirdly. The developing nations are a vast untaped market for cheap technology. To my thinking this is a tremdous opportunity for free software. It would enable these nations to get the technology they need and realize a very high return on investment. BTW, in any theater ROI is a key concern in implementing technology. Fourth. UNIX has a well known history of binary incompatibility. This is the window that Microsoft is rushing through. This and Novell's massive screw up when they had USL -- yes I dislike SysV stuff too -- further opened the flood gates for M$ is position a bad OS as the answer to corporate concerns for comaptability across operating platforms. In contrast, Linux is not yet suffering from this although there are signs of germination among their ranks. To wit, VAResearch and SuSE patch Linux kernels to fix the broken ones released by the Linis. So what to do? 1) A marketing and business plan needs to be developed, objectives and target markets clearly documented. FreeBSD strengths clearly delineated and presented in a professional manner. Leverage existing resources, tech support by the developers and others on the mailing lists and the web site. these are already much better than M$ offers. Clearly as the user base expand these resources will require enhancements. But in the interim leverage existing resources to the best advantage. The issuance of regular press releases would gain exposure in the press. 2) It has been suggested in other posts that perhaps a name change is in order for the product to be taken seriously in the business world. I sympathize with that point of view. 3) Credibility is everything in the business arena. That means quality highly available technical support. Binary compatibility across platforms and splintering among the various BSD releases could be problematic. Vendor stability and staying power are key issues. 4) Take FreeBSD commercial. Fatten the margins enough to make possible utilization of a professional PR, tech support and marketing staff. That will no doubt involve problems with BSDI. I am uncertain how well they are doing, but it appears to be quite well. They are lots os third party application released on their platform Caldera is following that model in the Linux world. They are starting to alienate some in the Linux hacker community. 5) A concerted initiative should be made in the Universities both domestic and foreign. Most Universities teach UNIX as part of Computer Engineering and Computer Science disciplines. Budgets at Domestic universities are stretched and departments are required to do more with less. Universities in developing dace a similar set of circumstances. This represents an opportunity for low cost Operating Systems to replace more costly commercial versions. 6) Initiatives in college bookstores to gain converts among the aspiring developers and computer engineers would produce a grass roots effort to get FreeBSD into the corporate environment. There is no question that converts will carry their favorite tools to the job site after graduation. I could go on with this, but may have over stayed my welcome as it lies. This is enough to encourage dialog leading to a plan of action. If that happens then I've accomplished my mission. One last thing. I am not a developer nor technical writer, but would be willing to volunteer in any position where I may add value to the effort. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 17:00:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16654 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:00:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@haiti-103.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16570 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:59:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA00674; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:57:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:57:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Johan Larsson cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. In-Reply-To: <6gmagi$nln$1@fubar.campus.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10 Apr 1998, Johan Larsson wrote: > Terry Lambert wrote: > > >> After the dust settles we need > >> > >> 1. http://www.freebsd.org/Mozilla web page > >> The Power to Serve Mozilla world wide > >> a pointer to the nice long list of world wide freebsd sup servers > >> > >> 2. quick intructions on what the fields > >> base > >> prefix > >> release > >> > >> 3. in the same page an html pointer to an html version of cvsup > > > > 3.5. Access to binaries for cvsup for various platforms. > > This is one important thing, i know people that runs for example linux and > don't want to install modula-3. They just want simple binaries (i have not > been able to find one for linux for example). Exactly. I remember going through this when Stephan Coolo was setting up cvsup for the KDE crowd. Apparently he did a little digging (after giving up on trying to compile it on Solaris) and found some Solaris and Linux binaries (15.2 though). The url and some setup instructions for cvsup (albeit for KDE) are available at http://www.kde.org/cvsup.html - alex "We are upping our standards ... so up yours." - Pat Paulsen for US of A Prez, 1988. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 17:33:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25907 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25841; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:33:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19778; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:02:59 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA08887; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:02:58 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980411100258.52827@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:02:58 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Open Systems Networking , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: David Shanes , Brett Glass , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <3980.892169423@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Open Systems Networking on Thu, Apr 09, 1998 at 11:19:58PM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 April 1998 at 23:19:58 -0400, Open Systems Networking wrote: > I think we SERIOUSLY need a PR plan of some kind. I think also we can take > the gloves off and start kicking heads without getting nasty about it. We > have several FACTUAL resources that they just CANT compete with. Does anybody out there care? What I see is that they will get the impression "these free UNIXes attract a strange, aggressive kind of person, each saying \"My UNIX is better than your UNIX\"". >> guys hasn't appeared to have won us anything but lots of nice comments >> from folks like Marc A. at netscape to the effect that "Linux is the >> only free OS alternative." I'm getting tired of that, and if it's >> going to take "breaking ranks" with the rest of the free OS community >> to get our own message out, maybe it's time. > > I second this! But the problemhere is that we have zero PR. I am not > making light of jordans efforts at all. His trips, his talks, his free CD > handouts to promote FreeBSD. But the fact is we dont have any PR that is > making any difference to anyone but geeks. ORA flat out annoys me by > pretty much refusing to do a FreeBSD book. The only publisher I can > respect now would be addison wessley since they have seemed interested in > publishing gregs book. I dont know what happened on that front. Neither do I. Time to nag, I suppose. J Carter Shanklin called me a couple of months ago and was really interested, but things seemed to cool off before he got the book (*if* he got the book). I will report. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 17:58:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00875 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:58:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00796 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:58:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA00192 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:58:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <19980410011618.25209.qmail@xcf.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (cross-posting and massive CC list trimmed) On 10 Apr 1998, Jason Nordwick wrote: > > Such is true. I am a "newish" FreeBSD user and SuSE Linux reseller. I > > see a ready market for free "low cost" software in college bookstores, > > particularly those universities that have computer engineering and > > comsci departments. Part of evangelism is marketing and market > > presence. Having this OS on display at universities will attract a > > young audience the very people that are evangelizing Linux. > > Frank > > > > Would it be possible to have the Walnut Creek CDs in computer/bookstores, > as I see the Linux CDs ? > > What would this take, just calling and marketing ? So, for example, I am currently an undergraduate at Carnegie Mellon University. If the FreeBSD CD-ROM was available for purchase at our computer store, I am sure people would by it + try it. Right now there is a far more active Linux community here, but there are a fair number of avid FreeBSD users and developers here :). Jordan, would it be possible to get a few promotional CD-ROMs sent to us here if I can pursuade our store to put it on the shelves? Just to see if they sell so they can decide if the program works for them. If not, I can always foot the bill :). When I get back to Pittsburgh next week, I'll stop by and ask. Robert N Watson ---- Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ Trusted Information Systems http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 18:07:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02179 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:07:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01926 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:06:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA00282 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:05:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <352D9376.79BA2FB7@3skel.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Dan Janowski wrote: > Just for the record, for a long time this whole 'debate' has made me sick. > > The two main issues here are market presence and maturity. Linux has > an edge in market presence because it is 'this cool thing grown from the > muck of the Internet'. Many people, myself included, started with Linux not > because it was better but because it seemed like a cool new thing, and it > has > a public presence because of its lineage (however short it may be). Actually, what continues to surprise me is the better coverage in the Walnut Creek catalog. At least the past few I've seen, Linux has had several pages of CDs, front page coverage, better quotes from users, etc. I would have expected, if I saw an OS on the front of the Walnut Creek catalog, that it be FreeBSD. Often as not, it is Linux. I haven't received my latest catalog yet, I would be willing to bet that it is the same :). Robert N Watson ---- Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ Trusted Information Systems http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 18:15:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03580 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:15:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03545; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:15:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id VAA17340; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:14:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Greg Lehey cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , David Shanes , Brett Glass , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <19980411100258.52827@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > Does anybody out there care? What I see is that they will get the > impression "these free UNIXes attract a strange, aggressive kind of > person, each saying \"My UNIX is better than your UNIX\"". I think some do. The idea was not to start a pissing match with linux or NT. It was simply to point out the fact that FreeBSD works harder than other OS's based on actual, verifiable, servers. And I think as previously mentioned we have to pick our target audience. Which someone suggests should be corporate america. And I agree with that. We cannot take the desktop if someone donated 20 trillion dollars to FreeBSD Inc. tommorow :) But we can take server markets, and alot of non-desktop markets. We just need to focus and pick and choose our fights. And we NEED PR. We need to start being visable. More so than we have up to now. Thats my thinking anyway. We are gaining no ground. We need to change this and I think a PR offensive is our best choice right now. It certainly cant do any worse than our invisible image now :) Chris -- "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 18:28:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05406 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:28:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05346 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:27:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA06117; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:25:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:25:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Open Systems Networking cc: Greg Lehey , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , David Shanes , Brett Glass , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: You guys have been asked several times to take it to -chat. Are people going to be forced to extremes to get a little courtesy? > On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > Does anybody out there care? What I see is that they will get the > > impression "these free UNIXes attract a strange, aggressive kind of > > person, each saying \"My UNIX is better than your UNIX\"". > > I think some do. The idea was not to start a pissing match with linux or > NT. It was simply to point out the fact that FreeBSD works harder than > other OS's based on actual, verifiable, servers. And I think as previously > mentioned we have to pick our target audience. Which someone suggests > should be corporate america. And I agree with that. We cannot take the > desktop if someone donated 20 trillion dollars to FreeBSD Inc. tommorow :) > But we can take server markets, and alot of non-desktop markets. We just > need to focus and pick and choose our fights. And we NEED PR. We need to > start being visable. More so than we have up to now. Thats my thinking > anyway. We are gaining no ground. We need to change this and I think a PR > offensive is our best choice right now. It certainly cant do any worse > than our invisible image now :) > > Chris > > > -- > "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." > > ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. > FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 > -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 > FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net > http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security > ===================================| http://open-systems.net > > -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > Version: 2.6.2 > > mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te > gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC > foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z > d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb > NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv > CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 > b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= > =BBjp > -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 18:29:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05661 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05493 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:28:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19870; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:58:37 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA09148; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:58:37 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980411105837.30924@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:58:37 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. References: <9653.892233276@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <9653.892233276@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 11:34:36AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 April 1998 at 11:34:36 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > This is what the cvsup entries should look like: > > *default prefix=/home/mozilla base=/home/mozilla host=mozilla.FreeBSD.org release=cvs delete compress use-rel-suffix > > ## Main Source Tree > cvs-mozilla > > To sync with the freebsd-mozilla source tree available from > mozilla.freebsd.org. Any questions? How much data is this? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 18:32:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06783 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06562 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:32:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA00573; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:32:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: ken@mui.net cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet In-Reply-To: <199804101820.IAA08200@rocksalt.mui.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 ken@mui.net wrote: > > If there's any resistance at ORA, it looks to me like the > > (english-speaking) *BSD market isn't big enough, or the market > > is suffering from aftershocks of the "fractionalization" of > > the *BSD movement. > > actually, perhaps all it may take is for lots of us FreeBSD users to > call ORA and ask them what books they have on FreeBSD. ORA like > other companies go by what they think the demand is. Since most of > the books they have directly apply to FreeBSD, I think it gets lost > in the shuffle. Mentioning the request by name should help, I think. > > a thought - I wonder if anyone would take the time to get the current > genre of ORA books and post a kind of errata for FreeBSD users. It > would be nice ... Perhaps as a result of this discussion, we could publish a list of ORA (and others) contacts who can be called to ask for information on books (etc) on the topic of FreeBSD? I'm sure 400 people calling them over the next week would raise some interest. :) Robert N Watson ---- Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ Trusted Information Systems http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 18:33:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07207 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:33:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05859 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:29:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA00531; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:29:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Ray Seals cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <01BD647F.510EF1C0.rayseals@midwestis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Ray Seals wrote: > In general I have been able to find a FreeBSD equivalent to most of the > Microsoft Server applications but one. I haven't found anything to replace > Schedule + or Group colaberation software. If anyone can help me there I > would appreciate it. This is an interesting point -- I know of at least two organizations that decided against FreeBSD or BSD/OS with the CMU Cyrus server on the basis that there was no groupware software available that could take advantage of their existing windows clients. Instead they went with MS Exchange because of Schedule. It was not even a reluctance to use UNIX, but just that in this case it did not fit their needs. Are there any such pieces of software I can point them to? It is not too late for at least one :). Robert N Watson ---- Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ Trusted Information Systems http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 18:39:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA09590 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:39:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from d183-205.uoregon.edu (d183-205.uoregon.edu [128.223.183.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA09403 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:38:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by d183-205.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA25308; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980410183825.21096@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:38:25 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. References: <9653.892233276@time.cdrom.com> <19980411105837.30924@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19980411105837.30924@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sat, Apr 11, 1998 at 10:58:37AM +0930 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey scribbled this message on Apr 11: > > To sync with the freebsd-mozilla source tree available from > > mozilla.freebsd.org. Any questions? > > How much data is this? the cvs repsitory is ~45.6 megs, and a checked out copy is ~45.5 megs.. -- John-Mark Gurney Modem Rev/FAX: +1 541 346 9237 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 19:09:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16005 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:09:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.realtime.net (mail1.realtime.net [205.238.128.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA15916 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:08:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jktheowl@bga.com) Received: (qmail 55766 invoked from network); 11 Apr 1998 02:08:44 -0000 Received: from zoom.realtime.net (HELO zoom.bga.com) (root@205.238.128.40) by mail1.realtime.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 1998 02:08:44 -0000 Received: from barnowl (apm7-200.realtime.net [204.96.0.200]) by zoom.bga.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA05665; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:08:41 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:15:17 -0500 (CDT) From: John Kenagy X-Sender: jktheowl@barnowl To: Peter Schwenk cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions freebsd Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Peter Schwenk wrote: > Just as a data point... I thought it was a good start that I saw copies of > "The Complete FreeBSD, 2nd Ed." with the CDs and all in a large chain > bookstore, Borders Books and Music. Now, if it spreads to the book > sections of large computer stores, like I've seen Linux do, we'll be > getting somewhere. > On seeing this post I immediately called Borders here in Austin, and they have *sold out*. I previously posted to the doc list that Barnes and Noble and Bookstop have it in their catalog but none on the shelf. If you are going to buy this, *buy it from any of these three*!! And, do as I have, pester other retailers. Borders has 4 on order. I plan to get mine there. Ordering from WC is fine, but we must support the retail effort. I have also called my hardware vendor and volunteered to help get anyone interested in Unix started. They do get inquiries and do make sales but offer no support. They seemed very pleased for the offer and will gladly make referrals. Its a start. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 19:09:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16442 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:09:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tera.com (tera.tera.com [207.108.223.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16376; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:09:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tera.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with UUCP id TAA20888; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA15159; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:47:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199804101747.KAA15159@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: from Open Systems Networking at "Apr 9, 98 11:19:58 pm" To: opsys@mail.webspan.net (Open Systems Networking) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, dshanes@personalogic.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We need a starting point. A number of years ago I saw the first issue of the Linux magazine. Then heard no more about it. I was pleased that at last the Free Unix world has a real (paper) rag in circulation; and the following year when I began running FreeBSD I thought that it would be nice if this Linux pub could be merged in with the FBSD world. <> Well, I've heard the buzzer there. But it still leaves open the issue of having a pay-for or free FBSD publication. Quarterly at first; then perhaps bi-monthly. I've seen one of the ``Announcement'' circulars from WC//FBSD. Could this serve as our house organ? Say 4 to 8 pages for the first few issues. And expanding. I was a writer several lifetimes ago, and altho tech writing is nearly beyond me (it ain't easy, folks), I'd be willing to invest time in a *BSD magazine. There are hundreds or thousands among the BSD users more skilled than I, so should be no lack of articles. We could also have an online magazine; either ASCII-only or HTML distributed by email. Publicizing the Berkeley Software Distribution will require sweat; and imagination. It shouldn't take that much capital. gary > -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 20:25:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25811 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:25:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coleridge.kublai.com (coleridge.kublai.com [207.96.1.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25752 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:25:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.kublai.com) Received: from natasya.kublai.com (natasya.kublai.com [207.172.25.236]) by coleridge.kublai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA15732; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:25:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.kublai.com) Received: (from shmit@localhost) by natasya.kublai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17527; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:25:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19980410232529.02054@kublai.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:25:29 -0400 From: Brian Cully To: Johan Larsson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. Reply-To: shmit@kublai.com Mail-Followup-To: Johan Larsson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199804101903.MAA13870@rah.star-gate.com>, <199804102153.OAA29903@usr07.primenet.com> <6gmagi$nln$1@fubar.campus.luth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <6gmagi$nln$1@fubar.campus.luth.se>; from Johan Larsson on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 11:37:54PM +0000 X-Sender: If your mailer pays attention to this, it's broken. X-PGP-Info: finger shmit@kublai.com for my public key. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 11:37:54PM +0000, Johan Larsson wrote: > > 3.5. Access to binaries for cvsup for various platforms. > > This is one important thing, i know people that runs for example linux and > don't want to install modula-3. They just want simple binaries (i have not > been able to find one for linux for example). ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/CVSup/ -- Brian Cully ``And when one of our comrades was taken prisoner, blindfolded, hung upside-down, shot, and burned, we thought to ourselves, `These are the best experiences of our lives''' -Pathology (Joe Frank, Somewhere Out There) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 20:33:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27313 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:33:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA27303 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18601; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:36:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980410233659.21753@vmunix.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:36:59 -0400 From: Mark Mayo To: John Birrell , Amancio Hasty , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mozilla motif -> gtk References: <199804100703.AAA10494@rah.star-gate.com> <199804100714.RAA00910@cimlogic.com.au> <19980410155205.57649@urh.uiuc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980410155205.57649@urh.uiuc.edu>; from dannyman on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 03:52:05PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 03:52:05PM -0500, dannyman wrote: > On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 05:14:40PM +1000, John Birrell wrote: > > > My stumbling block is Motif. > > I won't buy from Xig because they penalize me for not being american. > > They want to charge me US$40 more for the same english language product. > > I hope I'm not the first to suggest this, but the gtk folks, or is it the > qt folks? Well, whoever it is they've ported Netscape, albeit somewhat > crudely yet, to their toolkit already, to the tune of a slightly prettier > interface and a leaner executable. I could scratch up the URL if you > haven't been told about it already. :) I'd agree that don't even bother with Motif. The Qt folks have pulled off the port in the incredible "mythical man-month", available at http://www.troll.no/qtscape/ The Gtk folks are probably not too far behind. At any rate, it looks damned impressive for Qt. -Mark > > -dan > > -- > // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves > \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 20:41:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28728 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:41:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28719 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:40:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18637; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:45:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980410234510.60170@vmunix.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:45:10 -0400 From: Mark Mayo To: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TIME FOR A SEPERATE VENUE!!! References: <199804101844.LAA23158@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804101844.LAA23158@usr02.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 06:44:10PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 06:44:10PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > I suggest the creation of a couple of new venues: > > 1) comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.advocacy > > 2) advocacy@freebsd.org > > -hackers is getting swamped. I agree. advocacy@freebsd.org is long overdue. Who created the USENET freebsd groups that exist? Adding a .advocacy is a really good idea. -Mark > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 21:45:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10287 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:45:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.16.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10263; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:45:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (ediorung-17.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.76.145]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.8.8) id XAA18702; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:45:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16358; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:44:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804110444.XAA16358@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:44:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" To: kline@thought.org cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dshanes@personalogic.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804101747.KAA15159@tao.thought.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gary, Glad to have you aboard. The brain storming has begun and many ideas or already on the table.. So far the FreeBSD core team has been relatively silent. It would be better when the input starts to flow from those folks too. I am sure they have been down this road before, and will have much to contribute. Without them this could appear as a "native" uprising. Regards, Frank On 10 Apr, Gary Kline wrote: > > We need a starting point. A number of years ago I saw the > first issue of the Linux magazine. Then heard no more > about it. I was pleased that at last the Free Unix world > has a real (paper) rag in circulation; and the following > year when I began running FreeBSD I thought that it would > be nice if this Linux pub could be merged in with the FBSD > world. > > <> > > Well, I've heard the buzzer there. But it still leaves open > the issue of having a pay-for or free FBSD publication. > Quarterly at first; then perhaps bi-monthly. > > I've seen one of the ``Announcement'' circulars from WC//FBSD. > Could this serve as our house organ? Say 4 to 8 pages for the > first few issues. And expanding. > > I was a writer several lifetimes ago, and altho tech writing > is nearly beyond me (it ain't easy, folks), I'd be willing > to invest time in a *BSD magazine. > > There are hundreds or thousands among the BSD users more > skilled than I, so should be no lack of articles. We could > also have an online magazine; either ASCII-only or HTML > distributed by email. > > Publicizing the Berkeley Software Distribution will require > sweat; and imagination. It shouldn't take that much capital. > > gary > >> > > -- ----------------------------- "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his thumb with a hammer." -- Marshall Lumsden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 21:46:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10944 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:46:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10262; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:45:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11621; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:47:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:47:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Giao Nguyen cc: Derek Laufenberg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <19980410130143.40104@calweb.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Giao Nguyen wrote: > > Thanks for letting me vent a bit. I am truely impressed with the quality > > of FreeBSD. It has the potential to be a silver bullet, but it needs > > killer applications - WORD & Excel. > > We don't need no silly Word & Excel. We've got sendmail. :) If we won't, there will always be presence of Windows on every desktop, proprietary fromats everywhere and therefore constant threat of complete Windows takeover even if the number of FreeBSD installations will increase hundreds of times. There should be a way to do all work without Microsoft products, and that means even a desktop-only things. Actually originally Linux-only desktop projects may be of significant help to FreeBSD even if they won't run on it and will only come with, say, Red Hat (worst scenario) -- that can bring people _somewhere_ outside of "buy Microsoft" captivity, and everything but yet another proprietary thing will be better. I can loudly declare "I am not accepting Word and Excel files in my email, and everyone whose email I won't see because of those formats can blame himself", and happily work in Unix-only environment, however a lot of people can't do the same thing, and it will be nice to help them. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 21:55:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14947 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:55:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14939 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:55:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11669; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:57:39 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:57:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: dannyman cc: John Birrell , Amancio Hasty , opsys@mail.webspan.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mozilla motif -> gtk In-Reply-To: <19980410155205.57649@urh.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, dannyman wrote: > > I hope I'm not the first to suggest this, but the gtk folks, or is it the > qt folks? Well, whoever it is they've ported Netscape, albeit somewhat > crudely yet, to their toolkit already, to the tune of a slightly prettier > interface and a leaner executable. I could scratch up the URL if you > haven't been told about it already. :) That's Qt -- http://www.troll.no (flames about Qt license are welcome in /dev/null, and please, not my /dev/null). -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 22:04:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16817 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:04:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from euthyphro.uchicago.edu (euthyphro.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16740 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:03:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@phaedrus.uchicago.edu) Received: from phaedrus.uchicago.edu (phaedrus [128.135.21.10]) by euthyphro.uchicago.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA29186; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:03:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by phaedrus.uchicago.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id AAA29673; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:03:25 -0500 (CDT) To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. References: <199804102153.OAA29903@usr07.primenet.com> From: stephen farrell Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 11 Apr 1998 00:03:25 -0500 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:53:33 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: <87af9tj6g2.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Lines: 23 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.3/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > > After the dust settles we need > > > > 1. http://www.freebsd.org/Mozilla web page > > The Power to Serve Mozilla world wide > > a pointer to the nice long list of world wide freebsd sup servers > > > > 2. quick intructions on what the fields > > base > > prefix > > release > > > > 3. in the same page an html pointer to an html version of cvsup > > 3.5. Access to binaries for cvsup for various platforms. rpms and debs as well... glibc and libc5, x86 and alpha, etc. -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 22:14:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20045 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:14:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20024; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:14:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20364; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:44:26 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA18805; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:44:25 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980411144425.64484@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:44:25 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD Hackers , newbies@freebie.lemis.com, FreeBSD Chat Subject: SPAM: Commercial support for FreeBSD Reply-To: FreeBSD Chat Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry for the spam. This will be the only message I send to these lists--please respect the Reply-To: header and follow up either to chat@FreeBSD.org or supporters@nanyang-computer.com. One of the points raised in the recent flurry of messages about more visibility for FreeBSD is the question of support. We've discussed this at length before, but somehow the discussions gradually sickered away and we were no closer to a solution. A company I do a lot of work for, Nan Yang Computer Services Ltd., is interested in providing commercial support for FreeBSD. They're a *very* low-profile company in England, and they'll expect to be involved mainly in the billing. This means that the people they're looking for have to do just about everything else themselves, more like consultants than employees. With this background, I'd like to solicit discussion on the subject. I've set up a mailing list supporters@nanyang-computer.com. Sign up in the traditional manner: send mail to majordomo@nanyang-computer.com with the text 'subscribe supporters' in the message body. My intention at this stage is to discuss to following topics: 1. How to set up a world-wide commercial support organization for FreeBSD. One of the things that I expect to be of great advantage is that the people involved will be accessible via the Internet, so it should be possible to provide 24x7 coverage. In keeping with Nan Yang's low-key image, I don't envisage any commercial premises for the support people: they will all be located wherever it suits them. 2. What support to offer. The obvious choices are: - first-level user support ("how do I attach an image to a mail reply?") - defect support ("My machine just said "panic: not enough foos" and rebooted. What do I do?"). - programming support ("I've just updated my Yoyodyne frobulator to the new, improved YYD-64. Can you write a driver for me, please?") - Education. This is by no means an exhaustive list. 3. What to charge. 4. How to sell the concept to potential customers. I've copied -questions and -newbies on this message. I don't expect many of the people on those lists to want to join in, but you could be concerned that this might mean the end of free support on the -questions list. I don't think you need to be worried. I suspect it *will* change things on the list, but I don't see any reason to expect that it will make things worse. I'd prefer that as much of the discussion as possible happens on supporters@nanyang-computer.com (it's a no-obligation signup :-). If, for some reason, you don't want to do that, please follow up in FreeBSD-chat. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 22:17:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21395 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:17:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (host77-106.airnet.net [209.64.77.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA21261; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:17:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@ninbox.ml.org) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01354; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:16:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <352EFCC2.D5D6D3BE@ninbox.ml.org> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:16:51 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Pawlak CC: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" References: <199804110444.XAA16358@darkstar.connect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Frank Pawlak wrote: > > So far the FreeBSD core team has been relatively silent. Would you rather have a stable OS or a talked about OS? -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 22:19:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22252 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:19:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tera.com (tera.tera.com [207.108.223.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22235; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:19:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tera.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with UUCP id WAA25514; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA19782; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:15:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199804110515.WAA19782@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: <199804110444.XAA16358@darkstar.connect.com> from Frank Pawlak at "Apr 10, 98 11:44:49 pm" To: fpawlak@execpc.com (Frank Pawlak) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Cc: kline@thought.org, opsys@mail.webspan.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dshanes@personalogic.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Frank Pawlak: > Gary, > > Glad to have you aboard. The brain storming has begun and many ideas > or already on the table.. So far the FreeBSD core team has been > relatively silent. It would be better when the input starts to flow > from those folks too. I am sure they have been down this road before, > and will have much to contribute. Without them this could appear as a > "native" uprising. > Hi Frank! The zine discussion has been shunted to chat, I think. The reason that the core group is so quiet may be that the ideas recently flowing take _real_ sweat. A guaranteed committment off time (blood, sweat, and tears?). There've been occasional explosions of interest in various hotbuttons items over time. It's one thing to sit and jaw (type) for 20-30 minutes; and quite another to commit 5 solid hours/week for a year or two. gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 22:31:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25425 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:31:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25408; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:31:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12690; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Frank Pawlak cc: danj@3skel.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Promoting FreeBSD - the user's piece of the action. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:53:04 CDT." <199804102353.SAA06404@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:31:10 -0700 Message-ID: <12686.892272670@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ Resubjected but left in -hackers with followup set since people seem to just NOT want to have this conversation in -chat and so be it; I shall not attempt to hold back the tide. :-) ] > 1) A marketing and business plan needs to be developed, objectives and > target markets clearly documented. FreeBSD strengths clearly delineated I'm all for it, but keep in mind the fact that without volunteer labor to make all these wonderful things actually HAPPEN, it'll be no more successful than any of our previous attempts at serious marketing. A lot of the usual voiced indignation and discussion but no actual press releases written, no articles in the magazines, no books, no public speaking engagements, in short - no significant action. Ask yourselves all for a moment just how you think that Linux's own PR machine got to be such a monster - is it Linus being an engaging speaker and spending 350 days out of the year on the road, pounding the pulpit? No. Linus isn't a bad speaker, in fact, but he's too busy taking care of his family to go on any road tours and it's not really due to his efforts that Linux is as successful as it is today anyway. Linux is wildly successful because it managed to attract, early on, a hoard of camp followers who didn't hack the sources but did hack text and produced reams of freely republishable text which bootstrapped an entire book industry. They published articles in magazines and wrote letters to the editor. THEY did the big PR push behind the operating system and, as far as I can see, the developers were left to do what they do best - develop software. I've seen a lot of good ideas in this thread, please don't get me wrong, but what I've also seen is a disturbing number of posts which essentially say "Rah rah! Yes! Get organized at the top and do a bunch of stuff and FreeBSD will win! Here's a list of things I think you guys should do ..." While I do appreciate the ideas, the above approach *seriously* misses the point, the point being that if you wait for the core team to aggressively market this OS then you're going to wait a long time and miss any number of valuable opportunities in the process. More to the point, you'll fail. I'm sorry, but it's an indisputable fact that the core team doesn't have any real marketing folks on it at the moment, nor do we know of any serious marketing folks who are genuinely willing and able to lead any one-man cavalry charges, so for the time being what FreeBSD's users all really REALLY need to do is to stop waiting for someone from the top to "tell them what to do" and just start doing it themselves! That's exactly what's been going on in the Linux camp all this time, by the way. People haven't been asking Linus Torvalds to put together a marketing plan for them before doing anything, they've just gone right on ahead and done whatever seemed obvious in the way of marketing/evangelism, and it's WORKING. I'm sorry for the use of caps, but this really is a serious problem. Our users have, by and large, COMPLETELY MISSED the entire concept of what marketing a free operating system is all about. Perhaps we've simply been too successful at acting like a corporate entity for folks to really make the connection that we're still free software and with all of free software's marketing problems - the fact that everyone's still waiting for a non-existent central marketing department to pop up and say "here's the new ad campaign!" sort of suggests this - but something is definitely wrong here. In any case, we don't have a central marketing department and demanding that we form one in order to solve this problem really does, again, completely miss the point. When you go to fight a war, you don't find 5-10 guys and say "guys, the enemy is attacking with 12 divisions of armored infantry - here are some rifles, go drive them off!" No, you raise 12 divisions of your own among the populace and it's the citizens who go off to fight the war on their own behalf. Free software is no different - if you want FreeBSD to win, you need to sit down and _invest the time_ in making tangible things happen, like writing magazine articles or any of the other activities I've mentioned so far. It is with you, the user, that the war will either be won or lost. I'm also sorry to make it sound like I'm picking on Frank, I'm not, I'm simply taking this response as an opportunity to make the point that people should really stop wasting time asking for instructions on what to do and simply start DOING something. You don't need instructions from me or anyone else on the core team on what to do, you really do know already! I've already listed dozens of good activities and most people know instinctively what constitutes good PR - writing books, magazine articles or press releases, giving CDs to libraries, presenting FreeBSD in schools, telling your friends - all the things we've covered so far. If you're at all typical, your biggest problem is, in fact, simply finding the time and volition to sit down and DO THE WORK. In this, I can only suggest simply blocking out some time and saying "OK, enough talk - this time I'm going to WRITE the friggin' thing!" (whatever your value for "thing" might be) or getting involved in some collaborative effort with a friend. Many books in print today were only completed because several people were involved and managed to keep one another on track - if one person had tried doing it alone, it'd never have happened. That's a good point to keep in mind as you contemplate your own private PR efforts. Last of all, please don't worry about "speaking inappropriately for FreeBSD" - just take the initiative! I've had more than one person contact me to say "I would have spoken about it at FooLISA but I didn't want to speak for you guys." Erm.. That's another case of seriously missing the point - FreeBSD belongs to all of you, we in core being merely its current custodians, and you need not fear that you'll be taking some sort of liberties by extolling the virtues of YOUR operating system! Somebody in -core might send you a nasty-gram if your arguments consist of nothing more than "Linux sucks! Run FreeBSD dammit!" but it's still your right to evangelise however you see fit, albeit hopefully with a modicum of style, and take up the fight on your own. Don't wait for us! As the Nike commercial says: Just Do It. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 22:34:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA26246 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:34:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA26150; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:33:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (ediorung-17.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.76.145]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id FAA27604; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 05:33:45 GMT Received: from darkstar.connect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA16421; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:33:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804110533.AAA16421@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:33:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Int ernet" To: jktheowl@bga.com cc: schwenk@voicenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just did a book search on the title words Berkeley UNIX at www.amazon.com and several titles showed up. Two of the titles I own and would recommend be placed on the must read list along with Greg's book. BTW, Greg's book is listed as back ordered and has been for the past several weeks. They are: Berkeley UNIX; A Simple and Comprehensive Guide, by James Wilson. This is a textbook used a Stanford University. Cost $25.00 US An Introduction To Berkeley UNIX and ANSI C, by Jack Hodges. Cost aboy $37.00 US Both titles cover basic commands and shell programming. Lastly a book that I picked at the University of Wisconsin bookstore. A Practical Guide To the UNIX System by Mark G. Sobell. This one covers Berkeley Software Distribution 4.3BSD. Has lot of depth on commands, files system etc. The point is that there are commercial publications out there, not in near the numbers devoted to Linux, but in my opinion of better quality. BTW, amazon.com allows others to sell for them through web site links and retain a share of the profits. Maybe an idea for the FreeBSD group to look into and provide easy access to publications that cover our beloved OS. Regards, Frank On 10 Apr, John Kenagy wrote: > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Peter Schwenk wrote: > >> Just as a data point... I thought it was a good start that I saw copies of >> "The Complete FreeBSD, 2nd Ed." with the CDs and all in a large chain >> bookstore, Borders Books and Music. Now, if it spreads to the book >> sections of large computer stores, like I've seen Linux do, we'll be >> getting somewhere. >> > > > On seeing this post I immediately called Borders here in Austin, > and they have *sold out*. I previously posted to the doc list > that Barnes and Noble and Bookstop have it in their catalog but none > on the shelf. > > If you are going to buy this, *buy it from any of these three*!! > And, do as I have, pester other retailers. > > Borders has 4 on order. I plan to get mine there. Ordering from WC > is fine, but we must support the retail effort. I have also called > my hardware vendor and volunteered to help get anyone interested in > Unix started. They do get inquiries and do make sales but offer no > support. They seemed very pleased for the offer and will gladly make > referrals. > > Its a start. > > John > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message -- ----------------------------- "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his thumb with a hammer." -- Marshall Lumsden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 22:43:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29100 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:43:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.realtime.net (mail1.realtime.net [205.238.128.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA28861 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:42:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jktheowl@bga.com) Received: (qmail 38556 invoked from network); 11 Apr 1998 05:42:46 -0000 Received: from zoom.realtime.net (HELO zoom.bga.com) (root@205.238.128.40) by mail1.realtime.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 1998 05:42:46 -0000 Received: from barnowl (apm5-176.realtime.net [205.238.146.176]) by zoom.bga.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA02354; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:42:42 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:49:59 -0500 (CDT) From: John Kenagy X-Sender: jktheowl@barnowl Reply-To: John Kenagy To: Alex Belits cc: Giao Nguyen , Derek Laufenberg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Alex Belits wrote: > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Giao Nguyen wrote: > > > > Thanks for letting me vent a bit. I am truely impressed with the quality > > > of FreeBSD. It has the potential to be a silver bullet, but it needs > > > killer applications - WORD & Excel. > > > > We don't need no silly Word & Excel. We've got sendmail. :) > > If we won't, there will always be presence of Windows on every desktop, > proprietary fromats everywhere and therefore constant threat of complete > Windows takeover even if the number of FreeBSD installations will increase > hundreds of times. There should be a way to do all work without Microsoft We need Word & Excel or clones there of. Speaking as an old time computer seller. You must be able to do what the other guy does without scaring the user. Or, you won't get convert one. That means word processing, spread sheets, fax, and database. I do not mean big stuff either. Bullet proof, easy to use - intuitive interface and clean looking. The only reason I have so many PCs on a LAN at my house (its just a rumor that I have one in the bathroom...) is that my father, a machinery broker, throws one into a box every year or so and ships it to me then gets a new one. Why? With windoze it gets so full of ka ka ("updates/good deals") that it quits. The one he has now simply hangs up the fax line - MID FAX! No one can tell him why. All he wants to do is get and send faxes, write quotes, and keep a list of customers - which he does in Word - its easier than the database manager. I take his non working system, scrub the disk clean, load FreeBSD, runs like a charm and faster. One problem, software learning curve prevents me from shipping it back to him. Get that one solved and we win. My two cents for the night. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 10 23:40:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14973 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:40:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14944; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:40:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (aargau-100.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.85.228]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id GAA00739; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:40:00 GMT Received: from darkstar.connect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16560; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:39:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804110639.BAA16560@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:39:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Promoting FreeBSD - the user's piece of the action. To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, fpawlak@execpc.com, danj@3skel.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <12686.892272670@time.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan, Your points are well taken. Yes I have loaded the bandwidth with verbiage, and I don't feel picked on either. Please understand that I am somewhat new to the FreeBSD community. Obviously I have strong feelings about FreeBSD and seeing it flower as the fine OS that it is. Further, I in no way intended my remarks to be taken as someone else, the core team or others, should do the work. I understand that the work has to be done by volunteers, like myself. Sadly you sniped my closing sentence where I offered my time in some capacity that would benefit the cause. Nor was I necessarily expecting direction from your group. Perhaps I should have been more clear in my rhetoric. If what I have written is taken as a mere rant, then it has not been read correctly. It is true that my experience is in selling and consulting in the commercial environment, which reads that I have things to learn about how free software is done. I am willing to do just that. You mention RAH RAH!! and warfare, both are subjects that I know a few things about. You don't necessarily need to match the enemy man for man. I once was part of a regiment that faced three full divisions and we emerged victorious!! I can also speak to the part that RAH RAH plays on winning football teams. The idea being that RAH RAH puts the fire in the gut and leads people on to victory what ever the endeavor. Perhaps a core team of volunteers modeled on the way the core development team operates will be just as effective in getting our job done as you are doing yours. Just as you are the leader of the core team our leader will arise from ongoing dialog and compilation of ideas that eventually jell into the business plan that I suggested, and our efforts will have maximum effect. I maybe wrong, not the first time, but it seemed to me to be a reasonable staring point to get the ball rolling. There are many areas that will require coordination inorder to come off as a professional group that has their stuff together. And my intent was and is to get that dialog started and the effort fleshed out. If this discussion has shifted to chat, then that is where I shall go and carry on. I had not known of its existance previously. Again I am offering my time in any capacity that my talents can add value to the effort. BTW, a mutual aquaintance mentioned that there is a remarkable resemblance between yourself and the BSD Daemon ;-) Now is your humor tonight? Regards, Frank On 10 Apr, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > [ Resubjected but left in -hackers with followup set since people seem > to just NOT want to have this conversation in -chat and so be it; > I shall not attempt to hold back the tide. :-) ] > >> 1) A marketing and business plan needs to be developed, objectives and >> target markets clearly documented. FreeBSD strengths clearly delineated > > I'm all for it, but keep in mind the fact that without volunteer labor > to make all these wonderful things actually HAPPEN, it'll be no more > successful than any of our previous attempts at serious marketing. A > lot of the usual voiced indignation and discussion but no actual press > releases written, no articles in the magazines, no books, no public > speaking engagements, in short - no significant action. > > Ask yourselves all for a moment just how you think that Linux's own PR > machine got to be such a monster - is it Linus being an engaging > speaker and spending 350 days out of the year on the road, pounding > the pulpit? No. Linus isn't a bad speaker, in fact, but he's too > busy taking care of his family to go on any road tours and it's not > really due to his efforts that Linux is as successful as it is today > anyway. Linux is wildly successful because it managed to attract, > early on, a hoard of camp followers who didn't hack the sources but > did hack text and produced reams of freely republishable text which > bootstrapped an entire book industry. They published articles in > magazines and wrote letters to the editor. THEY did the big PR push > behind the operating system and, as far as I can see, the developers > were left to do what they do best - develop software. > > I've seen a lot of good ideas in this thread, please don't get me > wrong, but what I've also seen is a disturbing number of posts which > essentially say "Rah rah! Yes! Get organized at the top and do a > bunch of stuff and FreeBSD will win! Here's a list of things I think > you guys should do ..." > > While I do appreciate the ideas, the above approach *seriously* misses > the point, the point being that if you wait for the core team to > aggressively market this OS then you're going to wait a long time and > miss any number of valuable opportunities in the process. More to the > point, you'll fail. I'm sorry, but it's an indisputable fact that the > core team doesn't have any real marketing folks on it at the moment, > nor do we know of any serious marketing folks who are genuinely > willing and able to lead any one-man cavalry charges, so for the time > being what FreeBSD's users all really REALLY need to do is to stop > waiting for someone from the top to "tell them what to do" and just > start doing it themselves! That's exactly what's been going on in the > Linux camp all this time, by the way. People haven't been asking > Linus Torvalds to put together a marketing plan for them before doing > anything, they've just gone right on ahead and done whatever seemed > obvious in the way of marketing/evangelism, and it's WORKING. > > I'm sorry for the use of caps, but this really is a serious problem. > Our users have, by and large, COMPLETELY MISSED the entire concept of > what marketing a free operating system is all about. Perhaps we've > simply been too successful at acting like a corporate entity for folks > to really make the connection that we're still free software and with > all of free software's marketing problems - the fact that everyone's > still waiting for a non-existent central marketing department to pop > up and say "here's the new ad campaign!" sort of suggests this - but > something is definitely wrong here. > > In any case, we don't have a central marketing department and > demanding that we form one in order to solve this problem really does, > again, completely miss the point. When you go to fight a war, you > don't find 5-10 guys and say "guys, the enemy is attacking with 12 > divisions of armored infantry - here are some rifles, go drive them > off!" No, you raise 12 divisions of your own among the populace and > it's the citizens who go off to fight the war on their own behalf. > > Free software is no different - if you want FreeBSD to win, you need > to sit down and _invest the time_ in making tangible things happen, > like writing magazine articles or any of the other activities I've > mentioned so far. It is with you, the user, that the war will either > be won or lost. > > I'm also sorry to make it sound like I'm picking on Frank, I'm not, > I'm simply taking this response as an opportunity to make the point > that people should really stop wasting time asking for instructions on > what to do and simply start DOING something. You don't need > instructions from me or anyone else on the core team on what to do, > you really do know already! I've already listed dozens of good > activities and most people know instinctively what constitutes good PR > - writing books, magazine articles or press releases, giving CDs to > libraries, presenting FreeBSD in schools, telling your friends - all > the things we've covered so far. > > If you're at all typical, your biggest problem is, in fact, simply > finding the time and volition to sit down and DO THE WORK. In this, I > can only suggest simply blocking out some time and saying "OK, enough > talk - this time I'm going to WRITE the friggin' thing!" (whatever > your value for "thing" might be) or getting involved in some > collaborative effort with a friend. Many books in print today were > only completed because several people were involved and managed to > keep one another on track - if one person had tried doing it alone, > it'd never have happened. That's a good point to keep in mind as you > contemplate your own private PR efforts. > > Last of all, please don't worry about "speaking inappropriately for > FreeBSD" - just take the initiative! I've had more than one person > contact me to say "I would have spoken about it at FooLISA but I > didn't want to speak for you guys." Erm.. That's another case of > seriously missing the point - FreeBSD belongs to all of you, we in > core being merely its current custodians, and you need not fear that > you'll be taking some sort of liberties by extolling the virtues of > YOUR operating system! Somebody in -core might send you a nasty-gram > if your arguments consist of nothing more than "Linux sucks! Run > FreeBSD dammit!" but it's still your right to evangelise however you > see fit, albeit hopefully with a modicum of style, and take up the > fight on your own. Don't wait for us! As the Nike commercial says: > Just Do It. :-) > > Jordan -- ----------------------------- "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his thumb with a hammer." -- Marshall Lumsden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 00:27:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26497 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:27:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fubar.campus.luth.se (news@fubar.campus.luth.se [130.240.196.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA26477 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:26:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from news@sno.pp.se) Received: (from news@localhost) by fubar.campus.luth.se (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA27458 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:26:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from GATEWAY by snopp with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: 11 Apr 1998 07:26:53 GMT From: Johan Larsson Message-ID: <6gn5vt$qpi$1@fubar.campus.luth.se> Organization: moon.pp.se References: <199804101903.MAA13870@rah.star-gate.com>, <19980410232529.02054@kublai.com> Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Cully wrote: > On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 11:37:54PM +0000, Johan Larsson wrote: >> > 3.5. Access to binaries for cvsup for various platforms. >> >> This is one important thing, i know people that runs for example linux and >> don't want to install modula-3. They just want simple binaries (i have not >> been able to find one for linux for example). > > ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/CVSup/ Nice, but are there any 15.3 binaries available somewhere also? :-) Johan -- * mailto:johan@moon.pp.se * http://www.moon.pp.se/johan/ * * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ -+-+-+ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 00:47:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01360 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:47:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01355 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:47:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13663; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:47:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Johan Larsson cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. In-reply-to: Your message of "11 Apr 1998 07:26:53 GMT." <6gn5vt$qpi$1@fubar.campus.luth.se> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:47:09 -0700 Message-ID: <13660.892280829@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Nice, but are there any 15.3 binaries available somewhere also? :-) pkg_add -f ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/CVSup/cvsupit.tgz Will install the latest 15.3 client and configure the cvsup config files for you (if that's already done, then just grab the new cvsup-bin tarball from that same directory). Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 01:31:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07200 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:31:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fubar.campus.luth.se (news@fubar.campus.luth.se [130.240.196.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07185 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:31:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from news@sno.pp.se) Received: (from news@localhost) by fubar.campus.luth.se (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA27665 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:30:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from GATEWAY by snopp with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: 11 Apr 1998 08:30:52 GMT From: Johan Larsson Message-ID: <6gn9ns$r01$1@fubar.campus.luth.se> Organization: moon.pp.se References: <6gn5vt$qpi$1@fubar.campus.luth.se>, <13660.892280829@time.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: Mozilla CVS repository, OK give it a shot. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Nice, but are there any 15.3 binaries available somewhere also? :-) > > pkg_add -f ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/CVSup/cvsupit.tgz > > Will install the latest 15.3 client and configure the cvsup config > files for you (if that's already done, then just grab the new > cvsup-bin tarball from that same directory). For freebsd yes :-) But we where talking about binaries for other platforms :) Johan -- * mailto:johan@moon.pp.se * http://www.moon.pp.se/johan/ * * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ -+-+-+ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 02:14:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA12505 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:14:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12461 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:14:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02650 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:14:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804110914.CAA02650@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Voice/Fax] mgetty-1.1.14 is the latest release Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:14:40 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For those interested in turning their boxes into a voice / fax answering machine the latest release of mgetty is 1.1.14. http://www.leo.org/~doering/mgetty/index.html If you are lost with a problem with vgetty check the faq or go thru the archived mailing list: http://www.elilabs.com/mgarc/index.html I am working on putting a nice wrapper for vgetty to setup voice mail and fax if you are interested or have a nefty idea drop me a note;also, I am exploring putting voice capability into hylafax. Enjoy, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 03:28:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA16133 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:28:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lily.ezo.net (root@lily.ezo.net [206.102.130.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA16128 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:28:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jflowers@ezo.net) Received: from lily.ezo.net (jflowers@localhost.ezo.net [127.0.0.1]) by lily.ezo.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA09568 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:28:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Flowers To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Pesky ld Problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Help. I am trying to compile picobsd .31 which proceeds quite nicely until it comes time to link all of the crunched object files. This is done with: cc -static -o outputfile objectfiles.o objectfiles.lo -libraryfiles but aborts with: Digesting symbol information: ld: No reference to __DYNAMIC This symbol doesn't appear in any of the object files or libraries so I don't know where to start to fix it. Any clues? Jim Flowers #4 ISP on C|NET, #1 in Ohio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 04:24:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23159 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:24:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from indigo.ie (ts01-40.waterford.indigo.ie [194.125.139.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA23100 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:22:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rotel@indigo.ie) Received: (from nsmart@localhost) by indigo.ie (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA00730 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:22:11 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from rotel@indigo.ie) From: Niall Smart Message-Id: <199804111122.MAA00730@indigo.ie> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:22:10 +0000 Reply-To: rotel@indigo.ie X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(3) 11/17/96) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ld: internal error: allocated set symbol space (2) doesn't match actual (6) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I've been getting a weird error message from ld when I link some object files produced by g++. I've repeated this problem with g++ 2.7.2.1 and egcs-current on FreeBSD, there isn't any problem with g++ 2.7.2.3 or egcs-current on Solaris which leads me to believe that the problem lies with the link editor. The problem manifests itself when I declare two variables with file scope, the following code illustates the problem: #include #ifdef BREAKME CScreen s; #endif int main() { #ifndef BREAKME CScreen s; #endif s.EnterEventLoop(0, 0); return 0; } [nsmart@ginseng gra]$ rm -f main.o && make MAKECXXFLAGS=-DBREAKME g++ -g -O3 -Wall -Wno-return-type -I/usr/openwin/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I. -DBREAKME -c main.cc -o main.o g++ -L/usr/X11R6/lib screen.o main.o framebuf.o line.o algo.o -o gra -lX11 -lm ld: internal error: allocated set symbol space (2) doesn't match actual (6) collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make: *** [gra] Error 1 [nsmart@ginseng gra]$ rm -f main.o && make g++ -g -O3 -Wall -Wno-return-type -I/usr/openwin/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I. -c main.cc -o main.o g++ -L/usr/X11R6/lib screen.o main.o framebuf.o line.o algo.o -o gra -lX11 -lm [nsmart@ginseng gra]$ Does anyone have any ideas about what is happening here? I can send the source of the project or offer an account on this machine to anyone who thinks that would be useful. FWIW the error message is printed on line 2040 of /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld.c if (setv_fill_count != set_sect_size/sizeof(long)) errx(1, "internal error: allocated set symbol space (%d) " "doesn't match actual (%d)", set_sect_size/sizeof(long), setv_fill_count); Regards, Niall -- Niall Smart. Microsoft Suck. See www.freebsd.org for details. Annoy your enemies and amaze your friends: echo "#define if(x) if(!(x))" >> /usr/include/stdio.h To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 06:42:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01371 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:42:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mexcom.net (ver2-69.uninet.net.mx [200.38.135.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01335 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:40:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eculp@ver1.telmex.net.mx) Received: from mc.mexcom.net (telmex@ppp-7.mexcom.net [206.103.65.199]) by ns.mexcom.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA21172; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:37:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <352F6544.4E0C6109@ver1.telmex.net.mx> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:42:44 -0500 From: Edwin Culp Organization: Mexico Communicates, S.A. de C.V. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.18 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Voice/Fax] mgetty-1.1.14 is the latest release References: <199804110914.CAA02650@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > > For those interested in turning their boxes into a voice / fax answering > machine the latest release of mgetty is 1.1.14. > > http://www.leo.org/~doering/mgetty/index.html > > If you are lost with a problem with vgetty check the faq or go thru > the archived mailing list: > > http://www.elilabs.com/mgarc/index.html > > I am working on putting a nice wrapper for vgetty to setup voice > mail and fax if you are interested or have a nefty idea drop me a > note;also, I am exploring putting voice capability into hylafax. > > Enjoy, > Amancio yes we are interested. We started testing mgetty a couple of weeks ago and are integrating it into our cheapy office phone system. we are especially attracted to the idea of hylafax, even though it already has more features than most people use, but we've been using it since long before the name change to hylafax and it has just worked:-) zero problems. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 07:51:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08299 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:51:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08290 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA19821 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:51:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Just one more thing and I'll shut up about this... Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:51:47 -0700 Message-ID: <19817.892306307@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG But anyone looking for a reasonable "marketing template" need, IMHO, look no further than http://www.redhat.com. What they have as their home page is actually what I would consider an excellent format for an http://www.freebsd.org/news.html sort of page. If anyone would like to massage our existing Newsflash information into something resembling this example and put it up for viewing, I'd be quite keen to see it! Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 08:36:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14984 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:36:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14976 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA10338; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:36:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA23373; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:36:23 -0600 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:36:23 -0600 Message-Id: <199804111536.JAA23373@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Jim Flowers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pesky ld Problem In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Help. I am trying to compile picobsd .31 which proceeds quite nicely > until it comes time to link all of the crunched object files. This is > done with: > > cc -static -o outputfile objectfiles.o objectfiles.lo -libraryfiles > > but aborts with: > > Digesting symbol information: > > ld: No reference to __DYNAMIC One of the libraryies you're trying to link with doesn't provide a static version, so it can't compile as completely static. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 09:53:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:53:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from prairiecomm.prairiecommunications.com (mail.prairiecommunications.com [208.141.230.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27419 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:53:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alk@pobox.com) Received: from 208.141.230.96 by prairiecomm.prairiecommunications.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id 2P498RP8; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:49:14 -0500 Received: (from alk@localhost) by pobox.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA05849; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:53:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:53:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804111653.LAA05849@pobox.com> From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Face: O9M"E%K;(f-Go/XDxL+pCxI5*gr[=FN@Y`cl1.Tn Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:04:55 -0600 > From: Nate Williams > Sure, but you can't use the Sun sources to develop a Java VM, even with > the JRE. You mean, not for redistribution without a license from Sun. I'm pretty sure this is being worked on. > But, developing a new Java VM inside of netscape if you have access to > Sun's sources using the 'educational' licensing is strictly prohibited, > no mater how good your intentions are. I strongly disagree with this unqualified statement. Who prohibits it? What text of the license? If you don't use the Sun code, the license does not in any way constrain you from working on any kind of new code. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 09:53:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27454 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:53:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27422 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:53:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03961; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:53:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199804111653.JAA03961@austin.polstra.com> To: andreas@klemm.gtn.com Subject: Re: libqt-1.39 snap: ld: -L differences between Linux and FreeBSD ??? In-Reply-To: <19980410141324.56043@klemm.gtn.com> References: <19980410141324.56043@klemm.gtn.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:53:18 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [I have eliminated the cross post to -ports, since this is really about the linker, and cross-posting on the mailing lists is discouraged.] In article <19980410141324.56043@klemm.gtn.com>, Andreas Klemm wrote: > Have difficulties compiling the newest libqt snapshot. > The seem to have a ld(1), that is able to get a list of > directories (-L flags) first, which is valid for every > further -l command option ... That's what our ld does, too. > cd t1; gmake > gmake[2]: Entering directory > `/home/andreas/src/freefall/myports/work/qt/work/qt-1.39-19980406/tutorial/t1' > gcc -L/home/andreas/src/freefall/myports/work/qt/work/qt-1.39-19980406/lib > -L/usr/X11R6/lib -o t1 main.o -lqt -lX11 > ld: -lqt: no match > > Error is, the libqt isn't searched in > /home/andreas/src/freefall/myports/work/qt/work/qt-1.39-19980406/lib I am very skeptical that this is a ld bug. It should work, and has worked forever, if not longer. :-) There must be some other problem. What is the filename of the qt library? The linker will recognize "libqt.a" or "libqt.so.m.n" where m and n are version numbers. Are the permissions OK on the library? If you think the library is really installed correctly and has a valid name, then perhaps a ktrace on the ld command could shed some light on the problem. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 09:58:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28669 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:58:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28656 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04001; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:57:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199804111657.JAA04001@austin.polstra.com> To: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr Subject: Re: Cryptic ld message (gcc bug?) In-Reply-To: <9804090037.AA28700@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> References: <9804090037.AA28700@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:57:55 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <9804090037.AA28700@cabri.obs-besancon.fr>, Jean-Marc Zucconi wrote: > This happens when I compile with "c++ -g -O", but not with only "c++ -g" or > only "c++ -O". What do this means ? > > ld: /tmp/ccLf96521.o: unexpected multiple definitions of symbol `this:V25', type 0x27 > Ì:484352: Definition of symbol `this:V25' (multiply defined) > ld: /tmp/ccLf96521.o: unexpected multiple definitions of symbol `this:V25', type 0x27 > Ì:484352: Definition of symbol `this:V25' (multiply defined) > > Here is the source program (the error disapear if you remove the last > 3 lines!): Yes, this seems to be a bug in ld's handling of .stabs symbols. Could you please use send-pr to file a bug report containing the error messages and your test program? That will ensure that we can find the information we need to fix it when time permits. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 10:03:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00892 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:03:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from csla.csl.sri.com (csla.csl.sri.com [192.12.33.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00880 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:03:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gilham@csl.sri.com) Received: from snapdragon.csl.sri.com (snapdragon.csl.sri.com [130.107.18.20]) by csla.csl.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA15168 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapdragon.csl.sri.com (localhost.csl.sri.com [127.0.0.1]) by snapdragon.csl.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07030 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804111701.KAA07030@snapdragon.csl.sri.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pesky ld Problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:28:09 EDT." Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:01:04 -0700 From: Fred Gilham Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jim Flowers wrote: > > Help. I am trying to compile picobsd .31 which proceeds quite nicely > until it comes time to link all of the crunched object files. This is > done with: > > cc -static -o outputfile objectfiles.o objectfiles.lo -libraryfiles > > but aborts with: > > Digesting symbol information: > > ld: No reference to __DYNAMIC > > This symbol doesn't appear in any of the object files or libraries so I > don't know where to start to fix it. > > Any clues? > > I've seen this happen when you try to link a shared (pic) object into a static binary. Make sure all your object files and libraries are static (compiled without the -fpic or -fPIC option to GCC), or link dynamically. -Fred Gilham gilham@csl.sri.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 10:05:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01226 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:05:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01121 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:03:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04038; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:03:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199804111703.KAA04038@austin.polstra.com> To: rotel@indigo.ie Subject: Re: ld: internal error: allocated set symbol space (2) doesn't match actual (6) In-Reply-To: <199804111122.MAA00730@indigo.ie> References: <199804111122.MAA00730@indigo.ie> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:03:48 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199804111122.MAA00730@indigo.ie>, Niall Smart wrote: > > I've been getting a weird error message from ld when I link some > object files produced by g++. I've repeated this problem with g++ > 2.7.2.1 and egcs-current on FreeBSD, there isn't any problem with > g++ 2.7.2.3 or egcs-current on Solaris which leads me to believe > that the problem lies with the link editor. ... > [nsmart@ginseng gra]$ rm -f main.o && make MAKECXXFLAGS=-DBREAKME > g++ -g -O3 -Wall -Wno-return-type -I/usr/openwin/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I. -DBREAKME -c main.cc -o main.o This is a known problem that crops up if you combine "-g" with "-O3". I have already asked somebody else to file a PR for it. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 10:14:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02993 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:14:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from indigo.ie (nsmart@ts01-18.waterford.indigo.ie [194.125.139.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02986 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rotel@indigo.ie) Received: (from nsmart@localhost) by indigo.ie (8.8.8/8.8.7) id SAA04598; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:14:52 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from rotel@indigo.ie) From: Niall Smart Message-Id: <199804111714.SAA04598@indigo.ie> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:14:51 +0000 In-Reply-To: John Polstra "Re: ld: internal error: allocated set symbol space (2) doesn't match actual (6)" (Apr 11, 10:03am) Reply-To: rotel@indigo.ie X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(3) 11/17/96) To: John Polstra , rotel@indigo.ie Subject: Re: ld: internal error: allocated set symbol space (2) doesn't match actual (6) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Apr 11, 10:03am, John Polstra wrote: } Subject: Re: ld: internal error: allocated set symbol space (2) doesn't ma > In article <199804111122.MAA00730@indigo.ie>, > Niall Smart wrote: > > > > I've been getting a weird error message from ld when I link some > > object files produced by g++. I've repeated this problem with g++ > > 2.7.2.1 and egcs-current on FreeBSD, there isn't any problem with > > g++ 2.7.2.3 or egcs-current on Solaris which leads me to believe > > that the problem lies with the link editor. > ... > > [nsmart@ginseng gra]$ rm -f main.o && make MAKECXXFLAGS=-DBREAKME > > g++ -g -O3 -Wall -Wno-return-type -I/usr/openwin/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I. -DBREAKME -c main.cc -o main.o > > This is a known problem that crops up if you combine "-g" with "-O3". > I have already asked somebody else to file a PR for it. Hrm, weird. FWIW here is the diff of the output of nm for a -O2 main.o and a -03 main.o: Thanks, that was bugging me. [nsmart@ginseng gra]$ diff -C 2 nm.* *** nm.O2 Sat Apr 11 18:12:48 1998 --- nm.O3 Sat Apr 11 18:13:04 1998 *************** *** 1,14 **** U _EnterEventLoop__7CScreenPFR7CScreencPv_vPv U __$_7CScreen ! 0000001c T __GLOBAL_$D$s 00000058 D __GLOBAL_$F$s ! 00000030 T __GLOBAL_$I$s U ___7CScreen ! 00000030 ? ___CTOR_LIST__ ! 0000001c ? ___DTOR_LIST__ 00000058 d ___FRAME_BEGIN__ 00000000 t ___gnu_compiled_cplusplus U ___main ! 00000000 T _main 00000040 D _s 00000000 t gcc2_compiled. --- 1,14 ---- U _EnterEventLoop__7CScreenPFR7CScreencPv_vPv U __$_7CScreen ! 00000010 T __GLOBAL_$D$s 00000058 D __GLOBAL_$F$s ! 00000000 T __GLOBAL_$I$s U ___7CScreen ! 00000000 T ___CTOR_LIST__ ! 00000010 T ___DTOR_LIST__ 00000058 d ___FRAME_BEGIN__ 00000000 t ___gnu_compiled_cplusplus U ___main ! 00000024 T _main 00000040 D _s 00000000 t gcc2_compiled. -- Niall Smart. Microsoft Suck. See www.freebsd.org for details. Annoy your enemies and amaze your friends: echo "#define if(x) if(!(x))" >> /usr/include/stdio.h To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 10:17:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03814 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03808 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:17:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04168; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:17:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199804111717.KAA04168@austin.polstra.com> To: rotel@indigo.ie cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld: internal error: allocated set symbol space (2) doesn't match actual (6) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:14:51 -0000." <199804111714.SAA04598@indigo.ie> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:17:09 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > FWIW here is the diff of the output of nm for a -O2 main.o and a -03 > main.o: Thanks. Could I trouble you to do the same thing using "ldd -v" instead of "nm"? That gives a lot more useful information. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 11:45:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14652 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14591; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:44:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id UAA11257; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:43:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:43:35 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Followup-to: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kern/6099: LPIP to slow machine causes hang References: <199804111550.IAA18671@hub.freebsd.org> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 11 Apr 1998 20:43:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no's message of "Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:50:02 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 32 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA14613 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav ) writes: > Peter Jeremy writes: > > The problem with LPIP is that enabling an lpt port for LPIP does not > > update net_imask. This means that LPIP interrupts can break splimp() > > critical regions - which includes all mbuf handling. > > > > The following patches correct the problem in 2.2.5R. The problem also > > exists in older versions of 2.2, -stable and -current. The same patches > > > > [patch deleted] > > Here's a patch for 2.2.6-STABLE: > > [patch deleted] > > I haven't had time to test it thoroughly yet though. I applied the patch on Valinor (P166, 128MB/9GB, 2.2.6-STABLE) and Helen (ThinkPad 380E, 16MB/2GB, 2.2.6-STABLE) and ran 'rcsh valinor cat /dev/urandom > /usr/tmp/urandom' from Helen successfully for five minutes. The throughput seems to have gone down 15% or 20% after the patch, from ~90 kBps to ~75 kBps, but at least the machine does not hang and it is possible to do something while it's transferring. As I type this, Helen is downloading the entire package collection from 2.2.6 over LPIP (it's gone through packages-2.2.6/All/[a-e]* already) I suggest that somebody commit the patch to -current now, and if it does not break anything and everybody is happy I'll merge lpt.c from -current into -stable and close the affected PRs in a while. -- fprintf(stderr, "I have a closed mind. It helps keeping the rain out.\n"); To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 12:04:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17961 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17947 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:04:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09269; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:03:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804111903.MAA09269@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: alk@pobox.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:53:35 CDT." <199804111653.LAA05849@pobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:03:54 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:04:55 -0600 > > From: Nate Williams > > > Sure, but you can't use the Sun sources to develop a Java VM, even with > > the JRE. > > You mean, not for redistribution without a license from Sun. > I'm pretty sure this is being worked on. > > > But, developing a new Java VM inside of netscape if you have access to > > Sun's sources using the 'educational' licensing is strictly prohibited, > > no mater how good your intentions are. > > I strongly disagree with this unqualified statement. Who prohibits > it? What text of the license? If you don't use the Sun code, the > license does not in any way constrain you from working on any kind > of new code. > > Nate intentions are to help keep us honest in the eye of the outside world. My interpretation of his message is: Hey Bud, you better check with Sun before engaging in any such exercise . To be honest , he is right , the last thing I wish to be is a political target example. "You see what can happen to you if you do ..." I am not saying that Sun will act in such a matter rather that any attempt to bring back Java to Mozilla should be done with caution. Regards, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 13:01:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28450 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:01:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from indigo.ie (nsmart@ts01-18.waterford.indigo.ie [194.125.139.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28443 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:00:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rotel@indigo.ie) Received: (from nsmart@localhost) by indigo.ie (8.8.8/8.8.7) id VAA06760; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:01:16 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from rotel@indigo.ie) From: Niall Smart Message-Id: <199804112001.VAA06760@indigo.ie> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:01:16 +0000 In-Reply-To: John Polstra "Re: ld: internal error: allocated set symbol space (2) doesn't match actual (6)" (Apr 11, 10:17am) Reply-To: rotel@indigo.ie X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(3) 11/17/96) To: John Polstra , rotel@indigo.ie Subject: Re: ld: internal error: allocated set symbol space (2) doesn't match actual (6) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Apr 11, 10:17am, John Polstra wrote: } Subject: Re: ld: internal error: allocated set symbol space (2) doesn't ma > > FWIW here is the diff of the output of nm for a -O2 main.o and a -03 > > main.o: > > Thanks. Could I trouble you to do the same thing using "ldd -v" > instead of "nm"? That gives a lot more useful information. Firstly a correction to my earlier post, I do not know if the problem occurs with gcc 2.7.2.1 for the simple reason that it cannot compile the code because it contains exception handling stuff that earlier gcc's don't grok too well. I thought I had been picking up /usr/bin/c++ with "c++" but just noticed that I wasn't. (doh) It does link ok egcs on other platforms though, so I still think its a bug with the linker. I've been working on isolating a simple test case that might be more useful than the output from ldd -v, (though you're still welcome to that, or the source/binaries) I've appended it to this mail. If you compile it with egcs-current without -DGLOBAL then all cases work, if you compile with -DGLOBAL then it won't link for cases A and D, it links but dumps core before main() for cases B and E and case C works fine. This code doesn't use exception handling so I've tried it with gcc 2.7.2.1 and it works in all cases. This kinda points the finger at egcs, so if you want me to take this to egcs-bugs thats ok :) However I would be surprised if egcs is at fault because this code is very, very simple and it would have to be extremely brain dead to get it wrong, which is the opposite of my experience with egcs. If you don't have egcs then I guess you can't compile this code and see it break, if so give me a shout for what you need (ldd -v, object files etc.) Regards, Niall #if defined(CASE_A) || defined(CASE_C) || defined(CASE_D) #include #endif #if defined(CASE_B) || defined(CASE_E) #include #endif class C { public: #if defined(CASE_A) C() { cout << 0 << endl; } #elif defined(CASE_B) C() { printf("%d\n", 0); } #elif defined(CASE_C) foo() { cout << 0 << endl; } #elif defined(CASE_D) ~C() { cout << 0 << endl; } #elif defined(CASE_E) ~C() { printf("%d\n", 0); } #else #error define one of CASE_[ABCDE] when compiling #endif }; #ifdef GLOBAL C c; #endif int main() { #ifndef GLOBAL C c; #endif #ifdef CASE_C c.foo(); #endif return 0; } -- Niall Smart. Microsoft Suck. See www.freebsd.org for details. Annoy your enemies and amaze your friends: echo "#define if(x) if(!(x))" >> /usr/include/stdio.h To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 13:24:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01092 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ece.WPI.EDU (root@ece.WPI.EDU [130.215.16.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01086 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:24:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bad@ece.WPI.EDU) Received: from taz.WPI.EDU (bad@taz.WPI.EDU [130.215.16.19]) by ece.WPI.EDU (8.8.5/8.6) with ESMTP id QAA27621; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bad@localhost) by taz.WPI.EDU (8.8.5/8.6) with SMTP id QAA20129; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:22:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: taz.WPI.EDU: bad owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:22:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernie Doehner To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Documentation of 2.2.5-RELEASE and 3.0 memory protection? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi: Is there a document that describes the kernel memory protection/allocation scheme used in 2.2.5-RELEASE and 3.0? I am especially interested in a list of io-space and io-memory ranges which I am allowed to read/write from in user space without worrying about interfering/overlapping into the kernel's memory space. Thanks.. Bernie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 13:30:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01763 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:30:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01711 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:29:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA11945; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:29:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA24098; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:29:44 -0600 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:29:44 -0600 Message-Id: <199804112029.OAA24098@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: alk@pobox.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? In-Reply-To: <199804111653.LAA05849@pobox.com> References: <199804111653.LAA05849@pobox.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > But, developing a new Java VM inside of netscape if you have access to > > Sun's sources using the 'educational' licensing is strictly prohibited, > > no mater how good your intentions are. > > I strongly disagree with this unqualified statement. Who prohibits > it? What text of the license? If you don't use the Sun code, the > license does not in any way constrain you from working on any kind > of new code. Sure it does. Go read the license that you signed in order to get access to the source code. If you want to do anything commercial (which includes making a $$, even if you're not the one making a $$), then you've gotta pay sun a pretty tidy sum of money. Last I heard it was close to a million dollars. Even if you don't use Sun code, you are 'tainted' from working on writing a different VM. This is basic Reverse Engineering 101. The folks who look at the code aren't allowed to write the code for the new implementation. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 13:32:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02161 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:32:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02137 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:31:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA11961; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:31:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA24107; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:31:51 -0600 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:31:51 -0600 Message-Id: <199804112031.OAA24107@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Fred Gilham Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pesky ld Problem In-Reply-To: <199804111701.KAA07030@snapdragon.csl.sri.com> References: <199804111701.KAA07030@snapdragon.csl.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > cc -static -o outputfile objectfiles.o objectfiles.lo -libraryfiles .. > > ld: No reference to __DYNAMIC .. > I've seen this happen when you try to link a shared (pic) object into > a static binary. Make sure all your object files and libraries are > static (compiled without the -fpic or -fPIC option to GCC), or link > dynamically. Actually, how they were compiled is irrelevant (although if you plan on making them static they'll be slower if compiled -fPIC), but it has to do with how they are 'bundled' at link time. Shlibs are bundled differently than plain .o files, and *require* that they be linked shared. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 13:47:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04552 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:47:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lily.ezo.net (root@lily.ezo.net [206.102.130.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04509 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:47:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jflowers@ezo.net) Received: from lily.ezo.net (jflowers@localhost.ezo.net [127.0.0.1]) by lily.ezo.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA18613; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:47:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Flowers To: Fred Gilham cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pesky ld Problem In-Reply-To: <199804111701.KAA07030@snapdragon.csl.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yep, that's the right answer. Thanks. I checked all the libraries and they were ok. The script I was using was patching the source as you indicate and then using the existing (shared) object files without recompiling first. Now if I can just figure out why the pci lnc1 interface can be ifconfiged but fails to initialise. Jim Flowers #4 ISP on C|NET, #1 in Ohio On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, Fred Gilham wrote: > > Jim Flowers wrote: > > > > Help. I am trying to compile picobsd .31 which proceeds quite nicely > > until it comes time to link all of the crunched object files. This is > > done with: > > > > cc -static -o outputfile objectfiles.o objectfiles.lo -libraryfiles > > > > but aborts with: > > > > Digesting symbol information: > > > > ld: No reference to __DYNAMIC > > > > This symbol doesn't appear in any of the object files or libraries so I > > don't know where to start to fix it. > > > > Any clues? > > > > > > I've seen this happen when you try to link a shared (pic) object into > a static binary. Make sure all your object files and libraries are > static (compiled without the -fpic or -fPIC option to GCC), or link > dynamically. > > > -Fred Gilham gilham@csl.sri.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 15:22:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20174 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:22:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from prairiecomm.prairiecommunications.com (mail.prairiecommunications.com [208.141.230.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20158 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:22:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alk@pobox.com) Received: from 208.141.230.96 by prairiecomm.prairiecommunications.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id 2P498SA1; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:17:46 -0500 Received: (from alk@localhost) by pobox.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id RAA06587; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:22:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:22:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804112222.RAA06587@pobox.com> From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Face: O9M"E%K;(f-Go/XDxL+pCxI5*gr[=FN@Y`cl1.Tn Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: nate@mt.sri.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is the FreeBSD Mozilla CVS server? References: <199804111653.LAA05849@pobox.com> <199804112029.OAA24098@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Quoth Nate Williams on Sat, 11 April: : Sure it does. Go read the license that you signed in order to get : access to the source code. If you want to do anything commercial (which : includes making a $$, even if you're not the one making a $$), then : you've gotta pay sun a pretty tidy sum of money. Last I heard it was : close to a million dollars. But that doesn't really bear upon the issue of licensees writing new code of their own. : Even if you don't use Sun code, you are 'tainted' from working on : writing a different VM. This is basic Reverse Engineering 101. The : folks who look at the code aren't allowed to write the code for the new : implementation. This is not a term of the Sun license, however. It is merely one way to preclude being effectively charged with "theft" of intellectual property. Another way to defend yourself against such a charge is simply not to "steal" any intellectual property. I can't speak for Sun, but I don't think it's realistic to believe that Sun has any reason to sue someone who does *not* use Sun's code, since they would be unlikely to win, for one thing, and since even if they were to win, they would be unlikely to gain financially as a result -- indeed, quite the opposite! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 15:45:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24812 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:45:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic13.pm07.sf3d.best.com [209.24.235.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24794 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:45:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA21741; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980411154500.09619@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:45:00 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Brett Glass , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Open Systems Networking , David Shanes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199804101950.NAA02342@lariat.lariat.org> <199804102020.NAA14378@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199804102020.NAA14378@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 01:20:37PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 01:20:37PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Hi, > > I use mgetty+vgetty to manage my phone. Hylafax has the capability to > launch vgetty however I have not play with that setup . Usually for > faxing out I just launch Hylafax and kill vgetty. Perhaps, this > weekend I will play more with Hylafax to figure out how it > can launch vgetty when it detects voice. > > You can play any greeting message that you like including randomly > select your greeting message.It should be possible to setup vgetty > with voice boxes for your favorite contacts . > > > vgetty answers the phone and detects fax or voice. When vgetty gets a voice > message streams it encapsulates the stream into a mime message then > it mails to me . This is action is simply performed by a default script > which vgetty invokes after receiving a voice message. > My mail reader is exmh a tcl/tk front-end to MH. > > I have my exmh setup so that when I click on my voice folder, the voice > messages are displayed as: > > Play attached audio > > Save audio file > > You click on "Play Attached Audio" and it invokes NCD's network audio player > which has the capability to go play at any point in the audio stream > by bracketing the audio stream. > > If you like , see : ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/Voice.FAQ it is outdated > however it will give you an idea of how to set it up. > > It is possible to setup vgetty with a voice menu. With the obvious advantage > that you have a whole OS to play with . > > > If there is interest , I can gather the latest mgetty+vgetty distributions > and generate a nice user friendly package. > > > Cheers, > Amancio > > > Amancio, This is just about the coolest thing I have heard of in the last 6 months!!! Would you like to give a demo of this system at the next BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) ? Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 16:05:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27078 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:05:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26843 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:04:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11282; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:03:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804112303.QAA11282@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com cc: Brett Glass , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Open Systems Networking , David Shanes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Voice/Fax on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:45:00 PDT." <19980411154500.09619@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:03:47 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sure , I am more than happy to give a demo at the next SF meeting. The system also supports caller ID and I have a simple script which includes the ID in the subject line: To: hasty Subject: Call From [ 4053090436 ] From: voice-operator I modified the phone number to protect the innocent 8) Additionally, I had a small mod to mgetty to pop up a tcl/tk app which displayed the current number and logged the call: phone number plus time. My main task at the moment is to come up with an end-user package which a user can modify easily and try to add voice extensions to Hylafax . Next level, should there be any interest is to provide support for a voice recognition system. There are several hardware vendors so my usual task is to locate a friendly one and then code up to their hardware API. Turning FreeBSD boxes into house appliances: TVs, Radios, Phones .. 8) Amancio > On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 01:20:37PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I use mgetty+vgetty to manage my phone. Hylafax has the capability to > > launch vgetty however I have not play with that setup . Usually for > > faxing out I just launch Hylafax and kill vgetty. Perhaps, this > > weekend I will play more with Hylafax to figure out how it > > can launch vgetty when it detects voice. > > > > You can play any greeting message that you like including randomly > > select your greeting message.It should be possible to setup vgetty > > with voice boxes for your favorite contacts . > > > > > > vgetty answers the phone and detects fax or voice. When vgetty gets a voice > > message streams it encapsulates the stream into a mime message then > > it mails to me . This is action is simply performed by a default script > > which vgetty invokes after receiving a voice message. > > My mail reader is exmh a tcl/tk front-end to MH. > > > > I have my exmh setup so that when I click on my voice folder, the voice > > messages are displayed as: > > > > Play attached audio > > > > Save audio file > > > > You click on "Play Attached Audio" and it invokes NCD's network audio player > > which has the capability to go play at any point in the audio stream > > by bracketing the audio stream. > > > > If you like , see : ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/Voice.FAQ it is outdated > > however it will give you an idea of how to set it up. > > > > It is possible to setup vgetty with a voice menu. With the obvious advantage > > that you have a whole OS to play with . > > > > > > If there is interest , I can gather the latest mgetty+vgetty distributions > > and generate a nice user friendly package. > > > > > > Cheers, > > Amancio > > > > > > > > Amancio, > > This is just about the coolest thing I have heard of in the last 6 > months!!! Would you like to give a demo of this system at the next BAFUG > (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) ? > > > Josef > > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 16:31:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29839 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:31:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic13.pm07.sf3d.best.com [209.24.235.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29832; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:30:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id QAA22162; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980411163045.41076@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:30:46 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Matthew D. Fuller" , David Shanes , Brett Glass , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Your Article "Freeware: The Heart & Soul of the Internet" Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <6218.892195002@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <6218.892195002@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 12:56:42AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 12:56:42AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Where do I sign up? > > "FreeBSD Marketing: Who Do You Want To Picket And Beat To Death With Stats > > Today?" > > Heh, you joke, but Mike Smith and I were kicking ourselves today > thinking "DAMN! After that big Linux user's group meeting, a big bus > went up to the Mozilla party several times with busloads of Linux > advocates and what a wasted opportunity! We could have had a guy in a > Chuck costume standing there, handing out FreeBSD CDs (along with a > little pamphlet describing how a Linux user might evaluate and > possibly transition to FreeBSD) to each person getting off the bus. > Damn damn damn! We suck at marketing!" > > Our comments were half in jest, but little PR stunts like this, done > in the proper humor, are seriously worth doing if you can pull them > off. It'd also be kinda nice if we pulled one off occasionally rather > than just thinking about it afterwards, and for that we need better > advance notification and planning when such opportunities present > themselves. Should any of you spot such an opportunity and need some > help in making it happen, let us know! > > Jordan > Moving this to Chat.... Networld + Interop 98 will be in Las Vegas the week of May 4-8. Is FreeBSD going to have a representive there? If not, are there any FreeBSD people in and around Las Vegas who might want to pass out free copies of 2.2.5. This would be a good start. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 17:37:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08347 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08337; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:37:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: from bubble.didi.com (sjx-ca127-46.ix.netcom.com [207.93.129.238]) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA24097; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by bubble.didi.com (8.8.7/8.8.8) id RAA06038; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:36:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804120036.RAA06038@bubble.didi.com> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jmz@FreeBSD.ORG, itojun@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199804110914.CAA02650@rah.star-gate.com> (message from Amancio Hasty on Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:14:40 -0700) Subject: Re: [Voice/Fax] mgetty-1.1.14 is the latest release From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * For those interested in turning their boxes into a voice / fax answering * machine the latest release of mgetty is 1.1.14. * * * http://www.leo.org/~doering/mgetty/index.html Jean-Marc is the maintainer of the mgetty port, can you talk with him to upgrade the port? * If you are lost with a problem with vgetty check the faq or go thru * the archived mailing list: * * http://www.elilabs.com/mgarc/index.html * * I am working on putting a nice wrapper for vgetty to setup voice * mail and fax if you are interested or have a nefty idea drop me a * note;also, I am exploring putting voice capability into hylafax. Itojun is the maintainer of the hylafax port. :) Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 17:45:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09591 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:45:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ece.WPI.EDU (root@ece.WPI.EDU [130.215.16.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA09573 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:44:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bad@ece.WPI.EDU) Received: from taz.WPI.EDU (bad@taz.WPI.EDU [130.215.16.19]) by ece.WPI.EDU (8.8.5/8.6) with ESMTP id UAA21304; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:44:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bad@localhost) by taz.WPI.EDU (8.8.5/8.6) with SMTP id UAA11407; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:43:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: taz.WPI.EDU: bad owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:43:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernie Doehner To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Kernel memory usage docs.. handbook290.html Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Found the docs for 3.0 kernel memory usage under /usr/share/doc/handbook/handbook290.html. Does the same thing exist for 2.2.5? Bernie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 17:46:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09896 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:46:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA09888; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11990; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:46:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804120046.RAA11990@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jmz@FreeBSD.ORG, itojun@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Voice/Fax] mgetty-1.1.14 is the latest release In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:36:46 PDT." <199804120036.RAA06038@bubble.didi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:46:28 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Point well taken , at this point I am interested in contributors and if they also happen to be the respective package maintainer thats even better! Regards, Amancio > * For those interested in turning their boxes into a voice / fax answering > * machine the latest release of mgetty is 1.1.14. > * > * > * http://www.leo.org/~doering/mgetty/index.html > > Jean-Marc is the maintainer of the mgetty port, can you talk with him > to upgrade the port? > > * If you are lost with a problem with vgetty check the faq or go thru > * the archived mailing list: > * > * http://www.elilabs.com/mgarc/index.html > * > * I am working on putting a nice wrapper for vgetty to setup voice > * mail and fax if you are interested or have a nefty idea drop me a > * note;also, I am exploring putting voice capability into hylafax. > > Itojun is the maintainer of the hylafax port. :) > > Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 18:06:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15268 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:06:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15099; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: from bubble.didi.com (sjx-ca127-46.ix.netcom.com [207.93.129.238]) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA24138; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by bubble.didi.com (8.8.7/8.8.8) id SAA06119; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:06:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804120106.SAA06119@bubble.didi.com> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jmz@FreeBSD.ORG, itojun@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199804120046.RAA11990@rah.star-gate.com> (message from Amancio Hasty on Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:46:28 -0700) Subject: Re: [Voice/Fax] mgetty-1.1.14 is the latest release From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Point well taken , at this point I am interested in contributors and if they * also happen to be the respective package maintainer thats even better! Yes, but if you get other contributors and get the newer versions to work (or manage to add voice capabilities to hylafax), please don't forget to send them to the maintainers (who will add them to our ports tree so everyone can use them easily). Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 18:23:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18133 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18127; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:22:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12293; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:22:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804120122.SAA12293@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jmz@FreeBSD.ORG, itojun@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Voice/Fax] mgetty-1.1.14 is the latest release In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:06:16 PDT." <199804120106.SAA06119@bubble.didi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:22:50 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi , I will not forget to interface with the respective mantainers. In fact,for now I am keeping track of the project in my mh folder "voice-project". If the project really takes off in terms of contributors I will be more than happy to step up the project management: mailing list, web page, etc.. Regards, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 18:40:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19829 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:40:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles220.castles.com [208.214.165.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19819 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:40:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00618; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804120138.SAA00618@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Bernie Doehner cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Documentation of 2.2.5-RELEASE and 3.0 memory protection? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:22:36 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:38:15 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there a document that describes the kernel memory protection/allocation > scheme used in 2.2.5-RELEASE and 3.0? > > I am especially interested in a list of io-space and io-memory ranges > which I am allowed to read/write from in user space without > worrying about interfering/overlapping into the kernel's memory space. Ah, I think you may have a slight misunderstanding here. Normally, you can't execute *any* I/O instructions from user space, nor can you access memory in the ISA "hole". Opening /dev/io sets the IOPL flag for your process, which allows unrestricted I/O access. When doing this, you're effectively on your own - the kernel will definitely be upset if you attempt to use any of the "standard" peripheral components, as well as if you interfere with any peripheral that it believes it controls. If you want to access memory on an expansion card in the ISA "hole", you need to memory-map it into your process. You need a cooperative driver for this - syscons allows you to memory-map video memory, and AFAIR it's not too picky about the offset you specify. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 18:44:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20806 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:44:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20785 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:44:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12392 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:44:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804120144.SAA12392@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Free Java Tools for Education Institutions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:44:28 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sun is offering their Java Tools for free to qualified educational institutions. Java WorkShop which runs on FreeBSD is included as one of the free packages 8) For further info see: http://sunfreeware.com:8080/ Enjoy, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 19:35:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27664 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:35:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic13.pm07.sf3d.best.com [209.24.235.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27655 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:35:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA23813; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980411193531.23196@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:35:31 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Amancio Hasty Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Free Java Tools for Education Institutions Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199804120144.SAA12392@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199804120144.SAA12392@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sat, Apr 11, 1998 at 06:44:28PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Apr 11, 1998 at 06:44:28PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Sun is offering their Java Tools for free to qualified educational > institutions. > Java WorkShop which runs on FreeBSD is included as one of the free packages 8) > > For further info see: > > http://sunfreeware.com:8080/ > Amancio, I know I am looking right at it, I just don'y see it. Could you give me the URL to the page with FreeBSD support ? Thanks Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 19:46:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29301 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:46:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29274; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:46:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12777; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:46:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804120246.TAA12777@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, java@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:46:39 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Here is my old posting. -------------- And can someone from the FreeBSD Java Team please stick this info in the FreeBSD Java Web Page. Tnks! -------------- Enjoy, Amancio ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from smyrno.sol.net (mail@smyrno.sol.net [206.55.64.117]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27495 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:34:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by smyrno.sol.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/SNNS-1.02) with ESMTP id SAA28570; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:33:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA02729; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:33:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:31:30 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02451 for freebsd-current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:31:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02439; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:31:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27476; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:31:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803290031.QAA27476@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: java@FreeBSD.ORG cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: JWS 2.0 works in FreeBSD 8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed ; boundary="==_Exmh_4606890830" Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:31:09 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multipart MIME message. - --==_Exmh_4606890830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii JWS, Sun's Java Workshop Shop -- IDE for Java. NOTE: The debugger does not work due to JWS using a Java Native Interface that means that the distributed JWS uses a binary library for the VM machines to talk to the debugger -- this is from the linux jws patch. You will need 1. the gnu gettext so just go to your favorite gnu ftp site and download it . I forgot where I got mine from. 2. bash 3. jdk1.1.5 4. the linux patch found at: ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/SuSE-Linux/suse_update/JWS2.0/ 5. JWS2.0 --- get it from http://shop.sun.com/ . There is a 30 day evaluation one which you can download and thats what I have over here. Sun is supposed to released in mid April an upgrade JWS2.0 to support JFC 1.1. I modified startup_wrapper and locate_dirs to work in our environment. After untarring the linux patch, copy my startup_wrapper to JWS/intel-S2/bin copy my locate_dirs to JWS/solaris/bin startup_wrapper assumes that JAVA_HOME points to your jdk1.1.5 installation, if not either define JAVA_HOME or edit startup_wrapper. To run JWS, intel-S2/bin/jws That, that, thats folks! 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Apr 1998 19:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd025207; Sun Apr 12 02:50:46 1998 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:45:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: FreeBSD Chat cc: FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD Hackers , newbies@freebie.lemis.com Subject: Re: SPAM: Commercial support for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19980411144425.64484@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been thinking of doing this myself for a couple of years. But I've had too much 'real FreeBSD work' to push too hard on the idea. julian (E) On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > Sorry for the spam. This will be the only message I send to these > lists--please respect the Reply-To: header and follow up either to > chat@FreeBSD.org or supporters@nanyang-computer.com. > > One of the points raised in the recent flurry of messages about more > visibility for FreeBSD is the question of support. We've discussed > this at length before, but somehow the discussions gradually sickered > away and we were no closer to a solution. > > A company I do a lot of work for, Nan Yang Computer Services Ltd., is > interested in providing commercial support for FreeBSD. They're a > *very* low-profile company in England, and they'll expect to be > involved mainly in the billing. This means that the people they're > looking for have to do just about everything else themselves, more > like consultants than employees. > > With this background, I'd like to solicit discussion on the subject. > I've set up a mailing list supporters@nanyang-computer.com. Sign up > in the traditional manner: send mail to majordomo@nanyang-computer.com > with the text 'subscribe supporters' in the message body. > > My intention at this stage is to discuss to following topics: > > 1. How to set up a world-wide commercial support organization for > FreeBSD. One of the things that I expect to be of great advantage > is that the people involved will be accessible via the Internet, > so it should be possible to provide 24x7 coverage. In keeping > with Nan Yang's low-key image, I don't envisage any commercial > premises for the support people: they will all be located wherever > it suits them. > > 2. What support to offer. The obvious choices are: > > - first-level user support ("how do I attach an image to a mail > reply?") > > - defect support ("My machine just said "panic: not enough foos" > and rebooted. What do I do?"). > > - programming support ("I've just updated my Yoyodyne frobulator > to the new, improved YYD-64. Can you write a driver for me, > please?") > > - Education. > > This is by no means an exhaustive list. > > 3. What to charge. > > 4. How to sell the concept to potential customers. > > I've copied -questions and -newbies on this message. I don't expect > many of the people on those lists to want to join in, but you could be > concerned that this might mean the end of free support on the > -questions list. I don't think you need to be worried. I suspect it > *will* change things on the list, but I don't see any reason to expect > that it will make things worse. > > I'd prefer that as much of the discussion as possible happens on > supporters@nanyang-computer.com (it's a no-obligation signup :-). If, > for some reason, you don't want to do that, please follow up in > FreeBSD-chat. > > Greg > > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 20:10:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03166 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:10:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03042 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:09:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01286; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:09:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199804120309.UAA01286@austin.polstra.com> To: rotel@indigo.ie cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld: internal error: allocated set symbol space (2) doesn't match actual (6) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:01:16 -0000." <199804112001.VAA06760@indigo.ie> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:09:25 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've been working on isolating a simple test case that might be more > useful than the output from ldd -v, (though you're still welcome to > that, or the source/binaries) I've appended it to this mail. > > If you compile it with egcs-current without -DGLOBAL then all cases > work, if you compile with -DGLOBAL then it won't link for cases A > and D, it links but dumps core before main() for cases B and E and > case C works fine. Aha! Thanks very much for the test case. It clears up a lot of things. This is actually an assembler bug. It just so happens that I committed a fix for it a few days ago. Get the latest assembler from -current, and you will find that this problem is gone. The fix is in revision 1.6 of src/gnu/usr.bin/as/config/obj-aout.c. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 20:15:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04187 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:15:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04181; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:15:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02122; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:15:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd002110; Sat Apr 11 20:15:37 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA29662; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:15:29 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804120315.UAA29662@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 03:15:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, java@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804120246.TAA12777@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Apr 11, 98 07:46:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 5. JWS2.0 --- get it from http://shop.sun.com/ . There is a 30 day > evaluation one which you can download and thats what I have over > here. Sun is supposed to released in mid April an upgrade JWS2.0 > to support JFC 1.1. NOTE: You *MUST* register with them to enable you to download this code. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 22:43:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20614 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 22:43:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20571; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 22:42:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA14897; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:42:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA25131; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:42:40 -0600 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:42:40 -0600 Message-Id: <199804120542.XAA25131@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, java@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804120246.TAA12777@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199804120246.TAA12777@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -------------- > And can someone from the FreeBSD Java Team please stick this info in the > FreeBSD Java Web Page. Tnks! > -------------- You're on the team and have commit priviledges. If you commit the new html page I'll make sure it gets updated on freefall. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 11 22:49:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21687 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 22:49:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA21643; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 22:49:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13436; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 22:49:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804120549.WAA13436@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nate Williams cc: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, java@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:42:40 MDT." <199804120542.XAA25131@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 22:49:24 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate, I am asking someone from the team to please put it up if no one volunteers thats okay . I am really busy over here doing stuff in the multimedia area and java . I am not asking a lot. Amancio > > -------------- > > And can someone from the FreeBSD Java Team please stick this info in the > > FreeBSD Java Web Page. Tnks! > > -------------- > > You're on the team and have commit priviledges. If you commit the new > html page I'll make sure it gets updated on freefall. > > > Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message