From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 01:05:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA20818 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 01:05:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA20801 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 01:04:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA00692; Sun, 31 May 1998 09:05:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 09:05:29 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <199805301621.JAA06062@antipodes.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 30 May 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Does anyone know if there is documentation available for the ARC or > > AlphaBIOS boot sequence? In particular, what services does the firmware > > provide to the bootstrap program (e.g. linload.exe). Alternatively, does > > anyone know where I can find the source code to linload.exe? > > The Linux ARC bootloader is a cut-down Linux kernel. Last I talked to > anyone about it, it used almost none of the ARC services, rather it > just banged directly on the hardware. I have spent a *long* time reading Linux and Milo source code and I really want to avoid putting hardware drivers in the bootloader. It just seems wrong to me. When AlphaBIOS boots, it talks to both the VGA and the SCSI cards (it even runs their BIOS code using an x86 emulator) so it must be able to provide device services to the bootloader. > > I think the Linux-Mips ARC bootloader is similar. > > > Sigh. I should have read more source code while I was at Microsoft :-). > > 8) Would they have let you at something like that anyway? I'm pretty sure I could have found a copy of the NT source code if I actually tried. I actively stayed away from most of the Windows source code. Win95 because it made me feel ill and WinNT because I didn't want any intellectual contamination which might affect my being able to work on FreeBSD. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 01:07:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA20953 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 01:07:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA20944 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 01:07:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA00703; Sun, 31 May 1998 09:08:20 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 09:08:20 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <199805301621.JAA06062@antipodes.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 30 May 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Does anyone know if there is documentation available for the ARC or > > AlphaBIOS boot sequence? In particular, what services does the firmware > > provide to the bootstrap program (e.g. linload.exe). Alternatively, does > > anyone know where I can find the source code to linload.exe? > > The Linux ARC bootloader is a cut-down Linux kernel. Last I talked to > anyone about it, it used almost none of the ARC services, rather it > just banged directly on the hardware. I think that part of the problem with Milo for Linux/alpha is that it tries to be a one-size-fits-all system. The same image works when started from ARC, AlphaBIOS, SRM and even directly from Palcode when its blown into firmware. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 01:33:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23043 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 01:33:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA23028 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 01:33:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from xcejka00@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.51]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA04369 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:32:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.52]) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28403 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:32:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from xcejka00@localhost) by sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA14045 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 31 May 1998 08:32:40 GMT Message-Id: <199805310832.IAA14045@sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> Subject: nullfs problem To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:32:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: Cejka Rudolf X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG First of all I asked this as problem report. No reply... Next I asked this on freebsd-fs. No reply... So maybe there? After the latest -current install, I'm trying the following command sequence (test_file has 30000 bytes or more): cd / mkdir test mount -t null /test /mnt cp test_file /mnt/test.bad cp test_file /test/test.ok diff /test/test.bad /test/test.ok ... Yes, files are the same - great reboot ... Login diff /test/test.bad /test/test.ok ... Oh no! Files differ! Lengths are the same, but content of /test/test.bad (file copied via nullfs) is partially zeroed! Does anybody use nullfs layer? Is this only my problem on my box? (Problem occurs if nullfs is mounted on root ffs.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rudolf Cejka E-mail: xcejka00@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz Technical University of Brno, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 02:35:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27824 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:35:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27801 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:35:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA16757; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:35:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd016747; Sun May 31 02:35:11 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA19826; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:34:54 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805310934.CAA19826@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. To: abial@nask.pl (Andrzej Bialecki) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 09:34:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Andrzej Bialecki" at May 30, 98 02:15:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You can wonder what all this is for: it helps to ensure that no element of > the system has been changed without you knowing it. It could be performed > during startup of the system, and/or just before executing each binary (as > far as I understand it, ELF allows to put pretty arbitrary sections into > the binary). Moreover, this helps to ensure that the system won't boot > without proper authorization, and even if someone steals it, it could > refuse to give in (this would require encrypting the disk contents, of > course - that's why I said about bootblocks...). VMS will not mark an executable as executable unless the VMS linker is the program that created the file. In general, the VMS mechanism prevents programs without SYSPRIV from generating programs that can be loaded as executable. The mechanism prevents the common case in BSD-land of LISP and other binaries that extend the data space of executables with code. Typically, this is a bad trade-off, favoring security over usability. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 02:39:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28322 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:39:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28305 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:39:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA16501; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd016474; Sun May 31 02:38:52 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA19927; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:38:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805310938.CAA19927@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Star Office Installation To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 09:38:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805300521.WAA09231@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at May 29, 98 10:21:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > My next question is , > why so many postings about Star Office without a single soul venturing > into the linux layer to solve at least the ipc shared memory segments > clean up? > > Well, lets chat about it some more 8) By definition, shared memory segments are persistant. It would be an error to delete them when the last reference is deleted. This is arguably a design flaw, but being a design flag, there's really nothing you can do about it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 02:43:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28903 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:43:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28895 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:43:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA20634; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:42:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199805310942.CAA20634@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 09:38:49 -0000." <199805310938.CAA19927@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 02:42:44 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I guess on Linux star office misbehaves by deleting its ipc shared data segments when it exits. Most likely whats going is that we are not handling properly the ipc calls or possibly something else which is causing Star Office not to delete the ipc shared data segments upon exit. Cheers, Amancio > > My next question is , > > why so many postings about Star Office without a single soul venturing > > into the linux layer to solve at least the ipc shared memory segments > > clean up? > > > > Well, lets chat about it some more 8) > > By definition, shared memory segments are persistant. > > It would be an error to delete them when the last reference is deleted. > > This is arguably a design flaw, but being a design flag, there's really > nothing you can do about it. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 05:24:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA18915 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 05:24:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA18838 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 05:22:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA07750; Sun, 31 May 1998 05:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805311222.FAA07750@implode.root.com> To: Terry Lambert cc: abial@nask.pl (Andrzej Bialecki), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 09:34:54 -0000." <199805310934.CAA19826@usr04.primenet.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 05:22:28 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> You can wonder what all this is for: it helps to ensure that no element of >> the system has been changed without you knowing it. It could be performed >> during startup of the system, and/or just before executing each binary (as >> far as I understand it, ELF allows to put pretty arbitrary sections into >> the binary). Moreover, this helps to ensure that the system won't boot >> without proper authorization, and even if someone steals it, it could >> refuse to give in (this would require encrypting the disk contents, of >> course - that's why I said about bootblocks...). > >VMS will not mark an executable as executable unless the VMS linker is >the program that created the file. > >In general, the VMS mechanism prevents programs without SYSPRIV from >generating programs that can be loaded as executable. The mechanism >prevents the common case in BSD-land of LISP and other binaries that >extend the data space of executables with code. > >Typically, this is a bad trade-off, favoring security over usability. Terry, sometimes I think we exist in different realities. First of all, any user can set a file as executable in VMS. It does not require any special privileges. Second, there is no "SYSPRIV" privilege. There is a "SYSPRV" privilege, however, that allows the holder access system resources as if he had a system UIC. One does not have to have a system UIC to change file permissions (including the executable flag); all one needs is to be the owner of the file - just like it is in Unix. Third, LISP works just fine in VMS, including dynamic compilation and process extension. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 07:51:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00365 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 07:51:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA00259 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 07:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.0/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id QAA01309 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 31 May 1998 16:51:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id NAA00398 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:46:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980531134627.A359@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 13:46:27 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nullfs problem Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199805310832.IAA14045@sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.3i In-Reply-To: <199805310832.IAA14045@sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz>; from Cejka Rudolf on Sun, May 31, 1998 at 10:32:39AM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4311 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Cejka Rudolf: > Does anybody use nullfs layer? Is this only my problem on my box? > (Problem occurs if nullfs is mounted on root ffs.) Nullfs is not up-to-date with recent VFS/VM changes. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #60: Fri May 15 21:04:22 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 10:38:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18253 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:38:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kstreet.interlog.com (kws@kstreet.interlog.com [198.53.146.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18183 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:38:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kws@kstreet.interlog.com) Received: (from kws@localhost) by kstreet.interlog.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15380; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:37:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kws) To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation References: <199805310942.CAA20634@rah.star-gate.com> From: Kevin Street Date: 31 May 1998 13:37:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: Amancio Hasty's message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 02:42:44 -0700" Message-ID: <87emxa9wa8.fsf@kstreet.interlog.com> Lines: 29 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty writes: > Well, I guess on Linux star office misbehaves by deleting its ipc > shared data segments when it exits. > > Most likely whats going is that we are not handling properly the ipc > calls or possibly something else which is causing Star Office not > to delete the ipc shared data segments upon exit. I don't know about Star Office, but in other code (in KDE specifically) I've seen constructs like: *shm_adr = shmat ( shmid , NULL, 0 ); #ifdef linux shmctl(shmid, IPC_RMID, &buff); #endif which flags the segment for deletion right after the first attach to it. It works because on Linux you can apparently still do a new attach to a shared seg even after it's been flagged for deletion. After the last detach the seg goes away. On other platforms you can't attach it anymore after you do this, so the code has to be smarter about when to delete the segment. Perhaps Star Office is making use of some Linux-only shm semantics too or our emulation doesn't quite handle this type of usage. -- Kevin Street street@iName.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 10:48:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:48:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shasta.wstein.com (joes@shasta.wstein.com [206.163.206.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19606; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:47:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joes@shasta.wstein.com) Received: (from joes@localhost) by shasta.wstein.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id KAA19941; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:47:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Stein Message-Id: <199805311747.KAA19941@shasta.wstein.com> Subject: Re: Sendmail 8.9 In-Reply-To: <199805281423.WAA08282@spinner.netplex.com.au> from Peter Wemm at "May 28, 98 10:23:26 pm" To: peter@netplex.com.au (Peter Wemm) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: peter@netplex.com.au, dom@myrddin.demon.co.uk, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Wemm allegedly wrote: > Argh, I take that back, I shouldn't have uttered such crap, especially when > I had a reply in my mailbox that I had not yet seen. (And even if it > wasn't, this still wasn't appropriate). My big mouth is really going to > get me in trouble sooner or later. So what was the final verdict? Any clarifications in the works, or is everyone that wants to use 8.9.0 on their own? (no problem for me, I'm already upgraded, but just a general question.) joe -- Joseph Stein Oregon FirePage http://www.ofp.org Beaverton, Oregon (*) [OFP4/PDX] (503) 301-1575 -or- joes@pager.wstein.com joes@wstein.com * Oregon, n.: Eighty billion gallons of water with no place to go on Saturday To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 10:59:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21950 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:59:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pat.idi.ntnu.no (0@pat.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.103.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21786 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:58:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Tor.Egge@idi.ntnu.no) Received: from idi.ntnu.no (tegge@presis.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.111.173]) by pat.idi.ntnu.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17903; Sun, 31 May 1998 19:58:18 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199805311758.TAA17903@pat.idi.ntnu.no> To: xcejka00@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nullfs problem In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 10:32:39 +0200 (MET DST)" References: <199805310832.IAA14045@sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on Emacs 19.34.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 19:58:17 +0200 From: Tor Egge Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Does anybody use nullfs layer? Is this only my problem on my box? > (Problem occurs if nullfs is mounted on root ffs.) Yes. On a production system running -current. Unfortunately I'm using the wrong set of patches. The unmodified nullfs layer in -current is broken for several reasons and should not be used. Fixing it correctly probably requires some changes to the VFS/VM subsystems (modifying vm_fault, resolving some locking issues and killing the buffer cache). - Tor Egge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 12:24:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03517 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:24:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03363 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:23:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA28004; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:23:50 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:23:50 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Kevin Street cc: Amancio Hasty , Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-Reply-To: <87emxa9wa8.fsf@kstreet.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 31 May 1998, Kevin Street wrote: > Amancio Hasty writes: > > > Well, I guess on Linux star office misbehaves by deleting its ipc > > shared data segments when it exits. > > > > Most likely whats going is that we are not handling properly the ipc > > calls or possibly something else which is causing Star Office not > > to delete the ipc shared data segments upon exit. > > I don't know about Star Office, but in other code (in KDE > specifically) I've seen constructs like: > > *shm_adr = shmat ( shmid , NULL, 0 ); > > #ifdef linux > shmctl(shmid, IPC_RMID, &buff); > #endif > > which flags the segment for deletion right after the first attach to > it. It works because on Linux you can apparently still do a new > attach to a shared seg even after it's been flagged for deletion. > After the last detach the seg goes away. On other platforms you can't > attach it anymore after you do this, so the code has to be smarter > about when to delete the segment. Perhaps Star Office is making use > of some Linux-only shm semantics too or our emulation doesn't quite > handle this type of usage. When I used to use the XSHM extension, this was the only way to reliably make sure that your system didn't get clogged up with garbage shared memory segments when you are trying to debug an XSHM program. I am sure it used to work - I did this on 386bsd 0.1. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 12:33:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05718 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:33:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05689 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:33:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22899; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:32:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199805311932.MAA22899@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Doug Rabson cc: Kevin Street , Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 20:23:50 BST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:32:35 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What we need to do is to modify the linux layer to print all the ipc calls and corresponding error messages while running Star Office -- this exercise should take less than a 1/2 hour. Modifying the linux layer is easy. edit /sys/i386/linux/linux_ipc.c compile layer: cd /usr/src/lkm/linux make unload layer modstat modunload -i make install linux run star office Do not unload the linux layer while a linux program is running or you will crash your system. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 12:35:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06052 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:35:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05920 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:34:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA28086; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:35:21 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:35:21 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Warner Losh cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <199805310603.AAA16501@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 31 May 1998, Warner Losh wrote: > I don't know how different the ALPHA version of ARC is. I have the > standard knocking around somewhere for the MIPS based version. Do you have this in electronic form? If so, can I have a copy? -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 12:51:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08518 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:51:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kstreet.interlog.com (kws@kstreet.interlog.com [198.53.146.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08474 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:50:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kws@kstreet.interlog.com) Received: (from kws@localhost) by kstreet.interlog.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00860; Sun, 31 May 1998 15:50:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kws) From: Kevin Street MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:50:02 -0400 (EDT) To: Doug Rabson cc: Amancio Hasty , Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-Reply-To: References: <87emxa9wa8.fsf@kstreet.interlog.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13681.44921.894518.950536@kstreet.interlog.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Rabson writes: >On 31 May 1998, Kevin Street wrote: > >> Amancio Hasty writes: >> >> > Well, I guess on Linux star office misbehaves by deleting its ipc >> > shared data segments when it exits. >> > >> > Most likely whats going is that we are not handling properly the ipc >> > calls or possibly something else which is causing Star Office not >> > to delete the ipc shared data segments upon exit. >> >> I don't know about Star Office, but in other code (in KDE >> specifically) I've seen constructs like: >> >> *shm_adr = shmat ( shmid , NULL, 0 ); >> >> #ifdef linux >> shmctl(shmid, IPC_RMID, &buff); >> #endif >> >> which flags the segment for deletion right after the first attach to >> it. It works because on Linux you can apparently still do a new >> attach to a shared seg even after it's been flagged for deletion. >> After the last detach the seg goes away. On other platforms you can't >> attach it anymore after you do this, so the code has to be smarter >> about when to delete the segment. Perhaps Star Office is making use >> of some Linux-only shm semantics too or our emulation doesn't quite >> handle this type of usage. > >When I used to use the XSHM extension, this was the only way to reliably >make sure that your system didn't get clogged up with garbage shared >memory segments when you are trying to debug an XSHM program. I am sure >it used to work - I did this on 386bsd 0.1. Setting IPC_RMID is the right thing to do, but the code has to be somewhat smart about when to do it, because (from man shmctl): IPC_RMID Removes the segment from the system. The removal will not take effect until all processes having attached the segment have exited; however, once the IPC_RMID operation has taken place, no further processes will be allowed to attach the segment. ... On Linux it's easier because you don't need to wait until all the attaches have been done before setting IPC_RMID. The linux emulation layer must be doing something about this difference in semantics or we'd probably see lots of failed attaches from Linux code. -- Kevin Street street@iName.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 13:34:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15115 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:34:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from myrddin.demon.co.uk (exim@myrddin.demon.co.uk [158.152.54.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA14879; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:32:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dom@myrddin.demon.co.uk) Received: from dom by myrddin.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.80 #1) id 0ygEll-0000xJ-00; Sun, 31 May 1998 21:31:53 +0100 To: Peter Wemm cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sendmail 8.9 In-reply-to: Peter Wemm's message of "Thu, 28 May 1998 21:41:27 +0800". <199805281341.VAA08110@spinner.netplex.com.au> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:31:52 +0100 From: Dom Mitchell Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28 May 1998, Peter Wemm proclaimed: > Dom Mitchell wrote: > > Wouldn't it be easier to just stick with 8.8.8 until the licensing > > issues of this latest sendmail can be clarified? > > Yes, that's pretty much what is happening by default. I have asked the > sendmail people twice now about this and still have got no response. I > might try sending by fax next. I find it quite ironic that people setting > up to sell sendmail don't have a handle on email. *sigh* Sadly very often true. > > P.S. You left out MMDF. :-) > > MMDF can go away and die. I've wasted too much of my life fighting MMDF > (and often loosing).. I wholeheartedly agree after a year of working as mailman at Demon Internet. There are too many fools still out there on the Internet who think that it's actually a useful mailer. Mind you, it did have anti-relaying first. :-) -- cathetometric Cepolidae antigenicity burry beadlehood anthozooid amphiprotic amarevole aseptify aquacultural addleheadedness appropinquation antipleion amasser Athapascan admittance bedrench anallantoic Aurantium barbiton airampo athenee blondeness backbitingly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 13:37:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15859 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:37:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15848; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:37:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Spinner) with ESMTP id EAA04648; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 04:36:19 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199805312036.EAA04648@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Joseph Stein cc: dom@myrddin.demon.co.uk, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sendmail 8.9 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 10:47:21 MST." <199805311747.KAA19941@shasta.wstein.com> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 04:36:18 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joseph Stein wrote: > Peter Wemm allegedly wrote: > > Argh, I take that back, I shouldn't have uttered such crap, especially when > > I had a reply in my mailbox that I had not yet seen. (And even if it > > wasn't, this still wasn't appropriate). My big mouth is really going to > > get me in trouble sooner or later. > > > So what was the final verdict? Any clarifications in the works, or is > everyone that wants to use 8.9.0 on their own? (no problem for me, I'm > already upgraded, but just a general question.) Yes, they have no interest with anything else other than sendmail itself. The intent is that one could sell a binary-only freebsd, as long as you either:- 1) removed sendmail 2) included sendmail source 3) provide sendmail source if asked 4) are not selling sendmail but are providing it with the system for free with no restrictions. ie: the end user could take the sendmail binaries and copy/distribute/whatever even though your commercial system license may prevent or restrict copying of everything else. In other words, it shouldn't be a problem in FreeBSD, unless somebody is trying to sell sendmail *itself* along with freebsd. An example of somebody who would need a seperate license would be somebody who is selling a mail handling system with extensive proprietary sendmail mods where the licensing requires the customer buy a copy per machine. Somebody in that situation would likely be interested in Sendmail Pro anyway. Clarifications to the license are theoretically under way but have to be approved by the lawyers first. > joe > -- > Joseph Stein Oregon FirePage http://www.ofp.org > Beaverton, Oregon (*) [OFP4/PDX] > (503) 301-1575 -or- joes@pager.wstein.com joes@wstein.com > * Oregon, n.: Eighty billion gallons of water with no place to go on Saturday > Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 13:44:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17495 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17155; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:43:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Spinner) with ESMTP id EAA04702; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 04:41:38 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199805312041.EAA04702@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dom Mitchell cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sendmail 8.9 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 21:31:52 +0100." Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 04:41:37 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dom Mitchell wrote: > On 28 May 1998, Peter Wemm proclaimed: > > Dom Mitchell wrote: > > > Wouldn't it be easier to just stick with 8.8.8 until the licensing > > > issues of this latest sendmail can be clarified? > > > > Yes, that's pretty much what is happening by default. I have asked the > > sendmail people twice now about this and still have got no response. I > > might try sending by fax next. I find it quite ironic that people setting > > up to sell sendmail don't have a handle on email. > > *sigh* Sadly very often true. I've taken that back. The explanation was far less sinister, they were just out of town for a week and were swamped. This is under way now. > > > P.S. You left out MMDF. :-) > > > > MMDF can go away and die. I've wasted too much of my life fighting MMDF > > (and often loosing).. > > I wholeheartedly agree after a year of working as mailman at Demon > Internet. There are too many fools still out there on the Internet who > think that it's actually a useful mailer. Mind you, it did have > anti-relaying first. :-) Yes, it does the anti-relaying too damn well - that was the problem I always had, I never really got a good handle on getting it to intentionally relay mail... :-] Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 13:45:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17928 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:45:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17808 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:45:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19097; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:45:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd019078; Sun May 31 13:45:10 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12554; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:45:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805312045.NAA12554@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Star Office Installation To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:45:05 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805310942.CAA20634@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at May 31, 98 02:42:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > My next question is , > > > why so many postings about Star Office without a single soul venturing > > > into the linux layer to solve at least the ipc shared memory segments > > > clean up? > > > > > > Well, lets chat about it some more 8) > > > > By definition, shared memory segments are persistant. > > > > It would be an error to delete them when the last reference is deleted. > > > > This is arguably a design flaw, but being a design flag, there's really > > nothing you can do about it. > > Well, I guess on Linux star office misbehaves by deleting its ipc > shared data segments when it exits. No, it doesn't. But if FreeBSD deleted them on it behalf when Star Office exited, FreeBSD would be in error. > Most likely whats going is that we are not handling properly the ipc > calls or possibly something else which is causing Star Office not > to delete the ipc shared data segments upon exit. You mean "shutdown", not "exit". My point was that SysV IPC is not resource tracked, and it would be an error for FreeBSD to resource track it (which is what was being requested). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 13:50:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18932 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:50:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18671 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:49:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23363; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:48:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199805312048.NAA23363@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 20:45:05 -0000." <199805312045.NAA12554@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 13:48:56 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am asking for the linux calls in the emulation layer to behave like they do in linux. Amancio > > > > My next question is , > > > > why so many postings about Star Office without a single soul venturing > > > > into the linux layer to solve at least the ipc shared memory segments > > > > clean up? > > > > > > > > Well, lets chat about it some more 8) > > > > > > By definition, shared memory segments are persistant. > > > > > > It would be an error to delete them when the last reference is deleted. > > > > > > This is arguably a design flaw, but being a design flag, there's really > > > nothing you can do about it. > > > > Well, I guess on Linux star office misbehaves by deleting its ipc > > shared data segments when it exits. > > No, it doesn't. But if FreeBSD deleted them on it behalf when > Star Office exited, FreeBSD would be in error. > > > > Most likely whats going is that we are not handling properly the ipc > > calls or possibly something else which is causing Star Office not > > to delete the ipc shared data segments upon exit. > > You mean "shutdown", not "exit". My point was that SysV IPC is > not resource tracked, and it would be an error for FreeBSD to > resource track it (which is what was being requested). > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 13:54:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20418 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles208.castles.com [208.214.165.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20043 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:54:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13066; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805311948.MAA13066@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 20:45:05 -0000." <199805312045.NAA12554@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:48:54 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You mean "shutdown", not "exit". My point was that SysV IPC is > not resource tracked, and it would be an error for FreeBSD to > resource track it (which is what was being requested). SysV IPC is optionally resource tracked, and the Linux application may or may not be requesting this tracking. If it is, and we aren't honouring the request, then we are in error. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 14:03:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21744 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:03:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21730 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28376; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:02:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd028314; Sun May 31 14:02:13 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13496; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:02:10 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805312102.OAA13496@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:02:09 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, abial@nask.pl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805311222.FAA07750@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at May 31, 98 05:22:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Terry, sometimes I think we exist in different realities. First of all, > any user can set a file as executable in VMS. It does not require any special > privileges. This has not been my experience, working on compilers on VMS. > Second, there is no "SYSPRIV" privilege. There is a "SYSPRV" > privilege, however, that allows the holder access system resources as if > he had a system UIC. One does not have to have a system UIC to change > file permissions (including the executable flag); all one needs is to be > the owner of the file - just like it is in Unix. Thank you for the spelling correction. I don't know, off the top of my head, the exact priviledge. I do know that when I wrote my own linker, it was required that I install it as an install image in order to be able to set the executable bit, At one time, I wrote a bacterium for UNIX and tried to port it to VMS, but was unsuccessful because of the inability to set the program as executable (which is distinct from setting the execution bit which is manipulable by the user, at least prior to VMS 5.3; I can't speak for later versions, since I didn't have access to VMS source code after that). > Third, LISP works just fine in VMS, including dynamic compilation and > process extension. You are confusing the LISP example, which I gave as an example of why requiring priviledges to set something executable was a bad idea, and the VMS and UNIX LISP extension formats. For many UNIX LISPs, "precompiled" packages are added into the executable file after the data known to the header. A number of UNIX FORTH interpreters do the same thing. Back in the 386BSD 0.1+patchkit days, a change was made to the loader to allow image size to not match the size in the a.out header, specifically because it broke a number of LISP interpreters (Franz LISP was the main one I remember). So 386BSD had a similar "protection" in it, though anyone could build a linker, unlike VMS. VMS LISP has no problem with dynamic compilation or process extension, but unlike UNIX, it does not implement it by extending the data space and not marking the data space extended in the image header. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 14:15:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23304 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:15:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23230 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:14:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26902; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:14:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd026874; Sun May 31 14:14:55 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14092; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:14:47 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805312114.OAA14092@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Star Office Installation To: street@iname.com (Kevin Street) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:14:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dfr@nlsystems.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, tlambert@primenet.com, mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <13681.44921.894518.950536@kstreet.interlog.com> from "Kevin Street" at May 31, 98 03:50:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Setting IPC_RMID is the right thing to do, but the code has to be > somewhat smart about when to do it, because (from man shmctl): > > IPC_RMID Removes the segment from the system. The removal will not > take effect until all processes having attached the > segment have exited; however, once the IPC_RMID operation > has taken place, no further processes will be allowed > to attach the segment. ... > > On Linux it's easier because you don't need to wait until all the > attaches have been done before setting IPC_RMID. The linux emulation > layer must be doing something about this difference in semantics or > we'd probably see lots of failed attaches from Linux code. Linux is in violation of SVID III, aparently, in allowing subsequent attaches... unless FreeBSD is? I don't have my copy handy right now. Do the emulation layers support virtual marking classes of operations? It seems to me that to emulate this behaviour without adulterating FreeBSD's SysV IPC into SVID non-compliance, you would need to: 1) Reference count the segment (already done?). 2) Note that the Linux IPC_RMID had been set, but *not* set it. 3) Establish a handler to be called on exit such that the emulation layer can track resources on behalf of the emulated environment. 4) In the handler, note that the reference count on the segment is transiting from 1->0, and remove the segment. One problem with this is that the exit order may not be such that the setter of the IPC_RMID virtual mark exits last; if so, then the virtual mark needs to be visible to all processes running from the emulation environment. Note: doing this damages the ability to have both Linux and FreeBSD processes communicating via the same segment, such as when running Linux X clients (using the SHM extension) against a FreeBSD X server. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 14:22:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24274 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:22:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23376 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02301; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:15:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd002178; Sun May 31 14:15:43 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14164; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:15:35 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805312115.OAA14164@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Star Office Installation To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:15:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dfr@nlsystems.com, street@iname.com, tlambert@primenet.com, mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805311932.MAA22899@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at May 31, 98 12:32:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What we need to do is to modify the linux layer to print all the ipc > calls and corresponding error messages while running Star Office -- > this exercise should take less than a 1/2 hour. Or 0 time, if you use SEFs truss... 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 14:40:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26063 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:40:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25944 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:39:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23577; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:38:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199805312138.OAA23577@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: dfr@nlsystems.com, street@iname.com, mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 21:15:35 -0000." <199805312115.OAA14164@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:38:57 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > What we need to do is to modify the linux layer to print all the ipc > > calls and corresponding error messages while running Star Office -- > > this exercise should take less than a 1/2 hour. > > Or 0 time, if you use SEFs truss... 8-). You just took the last possible excuse for someone to trouble shoot the linux layer :( BTW: I am not asking you nor Mike to work on this . I am after a small percentage of the inert/chatty gray matter on the list. Tnks! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 14:49:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27589 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:49:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [209.81.9.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA27580 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:48:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id OAA25397 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:48:18 -0700 Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:48:18 -0700 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199805312148.OAA25397@monk.via.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've thought about this in the past - specifically as it would apply to a firewall machine. If binaries could be signed with with a key, and the kernel exec routine required that a proper key be decryped before loading the program, this would eliminate someone hacking onto a firewall and using it as a platform for further mischief. Generally, they like to bring over a toolkit of snooping programs written in 'C'. Even though they could compile their nifty toolset, nothing would execute because they couldn't properly sign their binaries. Of course, the signing program would have to reside on a floppy or other removable media. I don't think it would be wise to leave it on the system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 17:08:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20038 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 17:08:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19748 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 17:07:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26928; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:07:17 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id CAA01862; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:07:01 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980601020701.08298@follo.net> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:07:01 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation References: <87lnrkd2xs.fsf@couatl.uchicago.edu> <199805300640.XAA01290@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199805300640.XAA01290@antipodes.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Fri, May 29, 1998 at 11:40:23PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 29, 1998 at 11:40:23PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > What are the issues involved in getting freebsd to run glibc binaries? > > Updating the linux_lib port. With RedHat 5.1 out, it should be > possible to make a fast raid and come up to something relatively > 'current'. We're going to need an update of Linux ld.so to emulate ACL 5.0 properly, too. Eivind, who have just started looking at creating a 'port' (/usr/ports) of the Linux version :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 17:19:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21993 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 17:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21857 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 17:18:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09016; Sun, 31 May 1998 17:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806010018.RAA09016@implode.root.com> To: Terry Lambert cc: abial@nask.pl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 21:02:09 -0000." <199805312102.OAA13496@usr06.primenet.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 17:18:21 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Terry, sometimes I think we exist in different realities. First of all, >> any user can set a file as executable in VMS. It does not require any special >> privileges. > >This has not been my experience, working on compilers on VMS. > >> Second, there is no "SYSPRIV" privilege. There is a "SYSPRV" >> privilege, however, that allows the holder access system resources as if >> he had a system UIC. One does not have to have a system UIC to change >> file permissions (including the executable flag); all one needs is to be >> the owner of the file - just like it is in Unix. > >Thank you for the spelling correction. > >I don't know, off the top of my head, the exact priviledge. I do know >that when I wrote my own linker, it was required that I install it as >an install image in order to be able to set the executable bit, > >At one time, I wrote a bacterium for UNIX and tried to port it to >VMS, but was unsuccessful because of the inability to set the program >as executable (which is distinct from setting the execution bit >which is manipulable by the user, at least prior to VMS 5.3; I can't >speak for later versions, since I didn't have access to VMS source code >after that). As I was a VMS user and kernel software developer for 10 years prior to hacking on Unix source, I'm quite familiar with how VMS works both internally and externally. The linker in VMS is not installed with any special privilege and any user can make a binary executable. A user, for example, can use kermit or other file transfer utility to copy over a VMS executable and as long as the file record type is correct (fixed, 512 byte records) and he sets the execute permission (set file/prot=exec...I'd mention the system call to do this if I could remember it), he can execute it. As I mentioned above, the SYSPRIV privilege allows the process to access resources as if he had a system UIC. There are 4 sets of permissions bits in VMS: user, system, group, and world. A system UIC is (usually) a UIC that has a group number that is less than 9. If you have a system UIC or you have SYSPRIV, then you can access files and directories using the "system" permissions bits, which usually default to RWED (all access). If your program required SYSPRIV, then you apparantly had some sort of permissions problem - perhaps you created the file with the wrong permissions to start with (no user/group/world access) and this caused the subsequant syscall to set the file exectuable to fail. One Can Only Imagine. In any case, your statements regarding the linker and file executablity are simply wrong. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 18:05:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28330 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mozart.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28315 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:05:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by mozart.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA13935; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:03:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) X-Authentication-Warning: mozart.canonware.com: jasone owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:03:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans To: David Greenman cc: Terry Lambert , abial@nask.pl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. In-Reply-To: <199806010018.RAA09016@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 31 May 1998, David Greenman wrote: > >> Second, there is no "SYSPRIV" privilege. There is a "SYSPRV" > >> privilege, however, that allows the holder access system resources as if > >> he had a system UIC. One does not have to have a system UIC to change > >> file permissions (including the executable flag); all one needs is to be > >> the owner of the file - just like it is in Unix. > As I mentioned above, the SYSPRIV privilege allows the process to access ^^^^^^^ > resources as if he had a system UIC. There are 4 sets of permissions bits > in VMS: user, system, group, and world. A system UIC is (usually) a UIC that > has a group number that is less than 9. If you have a system UIC or you > have SYSPRIV, then you can access files and directories using the "system" ^^^^^^^ > permissions bits, which usually default to RWED (all access). If your program > required SYSPRIV, then you apparantly had some sort of permissions problem - ^^^^^^^ > perhaps you created the file with the wrong permissions to start with (no > user/group/world access) and this caused the subsequant syscall to set the > file exectuable to fail. One Can Only Imagine. ? =) Jason (head spinning) Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 18:07:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28692 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:07:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kstreet.interlog.com (kws@kstreet.interlog.com [198.53.146.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28546 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:06:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kws@kstreet.interlog.com) Received: (from kws@localhost) by kstreet.interlog.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04464; Sun, 31 May 1998 21:02:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kws) From: Kevin Street MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:02:36 -0400 (EDT) To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Terry Lambert , dfr@nlsystems.com, street@iname.com, mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-Reply-To: <199805312138.OAA23577@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199805312115.OAA14164@usr06.primenet.com> <199805312138.OAA23577@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13681.64553.743511.911605@kstreet.interlog.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty writes: >> > What we need to do is to modify the linux layer to print all the ipc >> > calls and corresponding error messages while running Star Office -- >> > this exercise should take less than a 1/2 hour. >> >> Or 0 time, if you use SEFs truss... 8-). > >You just took the last possible excuse for someone to trouble shoot >the linux layer :( Well, there's also the 3 hour download just to *get* Star Office ... -- Kevin Street street@iName.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 18:16:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01100 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:16:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01084 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:16:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24661; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:15:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806010115.SAA24661@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Kevin Street cc: Terry Lambert , dfr@nlsystems.com, mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 21:02:36 EDT." <13681.64553.743511.911605@kstreet.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:15:22 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Now, I am really curious as to why people are not trying to fix the linux emulation layer related problems with respect to Star Office. The 386bsd0.1 crowd would have been trampling each other trying to fix the existing problem. Yes, at one point in our history we used to be very active. Download time for Star Office is worth noting and if people have an okay net connection they can fire off the download right before they go to sleep. Amancio > Amancio Hasty writes: > >> > What we need to do is to modify the linux layer to print all the ipc > >> > calls and corresponding error messages while running Star Office -- > >> > this exercise should take less than a 1/2 hour. > >> > >> Or 0 time, if you use SEFs truss... 8-). > > > >You just took the last possible excuse for someone to trouble shoot > >the linux layer :( > > Well, there's also the 3 hour download just to *get* Star Office ... > > -- > Kevin Street > street@iName.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 18:46:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04520 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:46:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04505 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:46:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01367; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:45:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806010145.UAA01367@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-Reply-To: <199806010115.SAA24661@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "May 31, 98 06:15:22 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:45:01 -0500 (EST) Cc: street@iname.com, tlambert@primenet.com, dfr@nlsystems.com, mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty said: > > Now, I am really curious as to why people are not trying to fix > the linux emulation layer related problems with respect to Star Office. > If you do it, I would be willing to review it. I am very busy working on other pieces of the code right now. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 19:19:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08995 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 19:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08989 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 19:19:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09124; Sun, 31 May 1998 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Amancio Hasty cc: Kevin Street , Terry Lambert , dfr@nlsystems.com, mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 18:15:22 PDT." <199806010115.SAA24661@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 19:18:43 -0700 Message-ID: <9120.896667523@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Now, I am really curious as to why people are not trying to fix > the linux emulation layer related problems with respect to Star Office. So fix it already! You have commit privileges. Saying "I'm really curious why someone isn't doing the work" has never been a successful motivational technique for getting work done around here. If anything I'd say the irritation it induces tends to lead people *away* from doing whatever it is you're whining about because now you've made it less than enjoyable to do so - you're doing it only because someone's trying to goad you into it. Or, to put it somewhat more succinctly: Put up or shut up, Amancio! :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 19:40:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11665 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 19:40:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11625 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 19:39:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25205; Sun, 31 May 1998 19:39:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806010239.TAA25205@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Kevin Street , Terry Lambert , dfr@nlsystems.com, mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 19:18:43 PDT." <9120.896667523@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 19:39:31 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry, Jordan I differed with your opinion. We are obviously at a stage that we need to increase our coverage and in my opinion getting Star Office to work on FreeBSD is a good goal so the motivation factor is there. Again, it would be nice to know the root of the lethargic-ness in this mailing list --- that is fixing Star Office is not the problem rather the non responsiveness in the mailing list is the problem. Having one of the well known hackers tackle the problem is not the best way to go for that is creating the "dominant hacker" syndrome. It is sort of like survival of the species and in our case it should be survival of the FreeBSD herd not so much of the hacker. Requesting censorship on the voice of reason is not an option if anything the useless thread on Star Office should have been steered in a more pro-active fashion. Perhaps you like to hear that Star Office has problems over and over on the list . Who knows maybe someone in the list would care to make a song out of the theme... "FreeBSD (Houston ), we have a problem" The only problem around here with the aboe is that there is no Mission Control in Houston to answer your distress call . "FreeBSD, we have a Problem" Later, Amancio > > Now, I am really curious as to why people are not trying to fix > > the linux emulation layer related problems with respect to Star Office. > > So fix it already! You have commit privileges. Saying "I'm really > curious why someone isn't doing the work" has never been a successful > motivational technique for getting work done around here. If anything > I'd say the irritation it induces tends to lead people *away* from > doing whatever it is you're whining about because now you've made it > less than enjoyable to do so - you're doing it only because someone's > trying to goad you into it. > > Or, to put it somewhat more succinctly: Put up or shut up, Amancio! :-) > > - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 20:23:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17421 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:23:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17415 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:23:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09380; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:22:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Amancio Hasty cc: Kevin Street , Terry Lambert , dfr@nlsystems.com, mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 19:39:31 PDT." <199806010239.TAA25205@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:22:33 -0700 Message-ID: <9375.896671353@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Sorry, Jordan I differed with your opinion. We are obviously at a stage > that we need to increase our coverage and in my opinion getting > Star Office to work on FreeBSD is a good goal so the motivation > factor is there. Um, Amancio, you are just completely and totally missing the point here and I don't know how else to put it. There's activism and then there's whining. Trying to sell "whining" under the activism label just won't fly, no matter how you try and twist the words around to justify it, and if you're really motivated to do something about the problem then history has more than amply shown us that the best results always come from someone actually DOING something about a problem! Lead, and others will follow. Leave the worrying about "dominant hackers" and other such new-age observations to the sociologists and be the more pragmatic engineer that I know you can be. Whining that people are sitting on their asses is simply not how you motivate engineers, something you should be more than well aware of yourself, and it's yelling "charge!" and diving on a problem, perhaps describing your ongoing detective work as it progresses, which is far more motivational to those surrounding you. I have plenty of statistical evidence on previous failures and successes to back me up on this one so just trust me on it, OK? :-) > Requesting censorship on the voice of reason is not an option if anything > the useless thread on Star Office should have been steered in a more > pro-active fashion. Perhaps you like to hear that Star Office Ok, consider this message my attempt to steer it in a more pro-active fashion then. I'm telling you outright: What works and works best around here are people who are willing to lead from the front. Now what are you prepared to do about it? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 20:30:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18267 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:30:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wumpus.its.uow.edu.au (wumpus.its.uow.edu.au [130.130.68.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18254 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:30:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@uow.edu.au) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by wumpus.its.uow.edu.au (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id NAA01361; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:29:50 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:29:47 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: Eivind Eklund cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-Reply-To: <19980601020701.08298@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Fri, May 29, 1998 at 11:40:23PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > > What are the issues involved in getting freebsd to run glibc binaries? > > > > Updating the linux_lib port. With RedHat 5.1 out, it should be > > possible to make a fast raid and come up to something relatively > > 'current'. > > We're going to need an update of Linux ld.so to emulate ACL 5.0 > properly, too. > > Eivind, who have just started looking at creating a 'port' > (/usr/ports) of the Linux version :-) Why do I forsee we'll need redhat_linux_lib.tgz, slackware_linux_lib.tgz, etc in the near future. :) Nick -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au - DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~nick - public key available on request. Nicholas Brawn - Computer Science Undergraduate, University of Wollongong. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 20:37:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18930 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:37:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18920 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:37:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25559; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:36:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806010336.UAA25559@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Kevin Street , Terry Lambert , dfr@nlsystems.com, mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 20:22:33 PDT." <9375.896671353@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:36:47 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ok, consider this message my attempt to steer it in a more pro-active > fashion then. I'm telling you outright: What works and works best > around here are people who are willing to lead from the front. > Now what are you prepared to do about it? I appreciate your advise and I will not step in to fix the problem for I think that there are plenty of hackers out there who would enjoy Star Office . If no one steps in to fix the problem then it will not get fixed. (Don't worry. We already have a hacker downloading Star Office and eyeing to fix the linux layer). On my todo list: I am actively getting ACE/elf up and running on -current something that was a total fiasco with a.out. Can you believed the size of this nice ACE test program compiled with -g: {hasty} ls -ald Barri* -rwxr-xr-x 1 hasty rah 82990 May 30 23:37 Barrier_Test Previously with a.out that used to be an 8 megabyte monster. After that I have this little thing to integrate in the bt848 driver: >From Dru Nelson : Here it is and a brief description. I am willing to answer any questions concerning this code to get it into the official hasty FreeBSD driver. I probably won't be working on this anymore, but at least it can be there if someone wants to take it further. As it stands, the code should only work in NTSC video, no checks are done to insure this. It is set up for single capture, then it writes into the buffer (which should be mmaped in). Notice, once vbi capture mode is turned on, that is all that gets captured. No video is captured. In this current form, I had enought BT848 RISC to capture 8 frames back to back. This can easily be changed to capture just one frame. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 20:37:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19032 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles157.castles.com [208.214.165.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18970 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:37:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA14798 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 19:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806010233.TAA14798@antipodes.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 19:33:20 -0700 From: Mike Smith Subject: Re: Star Office Installation Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To: undisclosed-recipients:; ------- Blind-Carbon-Copy X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nicholas Charles Brawn cc: Eivind Eklund , emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Star Office Installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:29:47 +1000." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 19:33:20 -0700 From: Mike Smith (Please followup to -emulation, where this belongs) > On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > On Fri, May 29, 1998 at 11:40:23PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > What are the issues involved in getting freebsd to run glibc binaries? > > > > > > Updating the linux_lib port. With RedHat 5.1 out, it should be > > > possible to make a fast raid and come up to something relatively > > > 'current'. > > > > We're going to need an update of Linux ld.so to emulate ACL 5.0 > > properly, too. > > > > Eivind, who have just started looking at creating a 'port' > > (/usr/ports) of the Linux version :-) > > Why do I forsee we'll need redhat_linux_lib.tgz, slackware_linux_lib.tgz, > etc in the near future. :) Slackware? Isn't that completely dead or something? (*) Seriously though, I am hoping that this will not be necessary (who am I kidding?). However, I would appreciate input from anyone who: - Wants to/is interested in doing this themselves. (I'd be more than happy to offload it, even to the extent of sending you CD copies of all the relevant distributions and stuff to save your download time). You'll need to be familiar with Linux and willing to look after this for a while (as the previous maintainer appears to have evaporated). - Has an opinion or experience related to the selection of libraries, components, support binaries, etc. that are relevant to both the linux_lib and linux_devel packages. Thanks! - -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com ------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 20:38:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19145 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:38:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ascetic.portal.ca (ascetic.portal.ca [206.87.139.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19129 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:38:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by ascetic.portal.ca (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA03183; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:37:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ascetic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:37:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Curt Sampson To: Doug Rabson cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 31 May 1998, Doug Rabson wrote: > I have spent a *long* time reading Linux and Milo source code and I really > want to avoid putting hardware drivers in the bootloader. There's a lot more than hardware drivers in that particular bootloader. It also includes a complete set of PALcode. (PAL stands for `Privileged Architecture Library,' and is used to implement some very low-level, machine dependent functions, such as memory and TLB management.) This, of course, is different even from machine to machine with the same CPU, and thus the bootloader for the AXPpci33 is not the same as the bootloader for the Multia, despite the fact that they both use the same CPU and the are exactly the same machine type (that is, use exactly the same kernel code) under NetBSD. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 21:00:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22066 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 21:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mozart.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22055 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 21:00:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by mozart.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA14062; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:58:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) X-Authentication-Warning: mozart.canonware.com: jasone owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:58:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans Reply-To: Jason Evans To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: sigprocmask() and threads question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG After doing some profiling of some multithreaded code I'm developing under FreeBSD, I decided to take a look at the code to see why even for single-threaded applications, more than half the time is spent in sigprocmask(). As near as I can tell, every time any of the pthread_* functions are called, the bodies of the pthread_* functions are wrapped in such a way that all signals are blocked while executing. This makes sense to me if we're worried about being in an inconsistent state (in the pthreads library) when a signal is delivered. Is this in fact why signals are blocked? Perhaps we need to correctly set the signal stack before allowing signal delivery? So, here are some ideas for which someone probably has good technical reasons not to use: ========================================================================== Suppose that the pthreads library puts wrappers around the signal functions, such that when the user program installs a signal handler, the pthreads library merely makes a note of it and sets up an internal signal handler to catch whatever signals the user program specified. Now, make sure that the internal signal handler is intelligent enough to handle a signal at any time. When a signal is caught that should actually be caught by the user's signal handler, either: 1) a) Get to a consistent internal state. b) Fake a signal handler stack frame, and whatever else needs to be done, and deliver the fake signal to the user's signal handler. or 2) a) Get to a consistent internal state. b) Uninstall the internal signal handler for the signal we're currently dealing with. c) raise() the signal again. d) After the signal has been caught and dealt with by the user's signal handler, re-install the internal signal handler. ========================================================================== Block all signals, then check for pending signals every so often (how often is often enough?). If there are any pending signals, unblock the signals, call sigsuspend(), then block the signals again. ========================================================================== I expect there are some difficulties in the details of these approaches, perhaps even some impossibilities, as well as some possible fallacies. If so, why won't they work? It seems like a good thing to me to do some extra work once in a while to avoid having to block and unblock signal delivery so often. (Disclaimer: I don't have a clue about thread implementations. Forgive my ignorance. =) ) Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 21:34:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26886 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 21:34:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA26877 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 21:34:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA16625; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:43:33 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806010443.OAA16625@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: sigprocmask() and threads question In-Reply-To: from Jason Evans at "May 31, 98 08:58:43 pm" To: jasone@canonware.com Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:43:33 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Evans wrote: > After doing some profiling of some multithreaded code I'm developing under > FreeBSD, I decided to take a look at the code to see why even for > single-threaded applications, more than half the time is spent in > sigprocmask(). You must be doing this on 2.2.x 3.0-current has changed away from this implementation. If anything, please spend your time profiling the current code. You should be able to use a current libc_r on 2.2.6 AFAIK. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 22:09:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01394 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 22:09:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01389 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 22:08:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09501; Sun, 31 May 1998 22:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806010508.WAA09501@implode.root.com> To: Jason Evans cc: Terry Lambert , abial@nask.pl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 18:03:45 PDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:08:04 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Sun, 31 May 1998, David Greenman wrote: >> >> Second, there is no "SYSPRIV" privilege. There is a "SYSPRV" >> >> privilege, however, that allows the holder access system resources as if >> >> he had a system UIC. One does not have to have a system UIC to change >> >> file permissions (including the executable flag); all one needs is to be >> >> the owner of the file - just like it is in Unix. > >> As I mentioned above, the SYSPRIV privilege allows the process to access > ^^^^^^^ >? =) Damn, I've been listening to Terry too much. Yes, it should be "SYSPRV". Thanks for correcting my spelling error. :-) -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 23:37:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10926 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 23:37:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA10916 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 23:37:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA29932; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 07:38:11 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 07:38:11 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Curt Sampson cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 31 May 1998, Curt Sampson wrote: > On Sun, 31 May 1998, Doug Rabson wrote: > > > I have spent a *long* time reading Linux and Milo source code and I really > > want to avoid putting hardware drivers in the bootloader. > > There's a lot more than hardware drivers in that particular > bootloader. It also includes a complete set of PALcode. (PAL stands > for `Privileged Architecture Library,' and is used to implement > some very low-level, machine dependent functions, such as memory > and TLB management.) This, of course, is different even from machine > to machine with the same CPU, and thus the bootloader for the > AXPpci33 is not the same as the bootloader for the Multia, despite > the fact that they both use the same CPU and the are exactly the > same machine type (that is, use exactly the same kernel code) under > NetBSD. Don't worry, I am fully aware of the PALcode problem. I think it will be a far easier problem to deal with the bootstrap installing PALcode than for it to have a complete set of device drivers. There is plenty of PALcode source in milo. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 31 23:44:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11627 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 23:44:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wipinfo.soft.net (agni.wipinfo.soft.net [164.164.6.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA11335 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 23:41:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hiren@wipinfo.soft.net) Received: from divya.wipinfo.soft.net by wipinfo.soft.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA12144; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:07:57 -0500 Received: from wipinfo.soft.net ([192.9.205.55]) by divya.wipinfo.soft.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17764 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:13:56 +0530 Message-ID: <32EAFBCF.2985E09@wipinfo.soft.net> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:08:07 +0530 From: hiren X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: macro definitions of VOP_??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I was looking at the sources of FreeBSD virtual file system (VFS) implementation. It uses all macros starting with VOP_ (e.g. VOP_OPEN, VOP_CLOSE, VOP_ACCESS, etc). I could not find it at all. Can somebody respond with the name of the file which contains the macro definition of VOP_???. Another thing is, I was trying to find structure declarations of the vop_???_args (e.g. vop_create_args, vop_mknod_args, vop_close_args, vop_access_args, vop_read_args, etc.) This also I could not find in the sources. Please help me out. Thanks Hiren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 00:24:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA16238 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:24:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ascetic.portal.ca (ascetic.portal.ca [206.87.139.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA16233 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by ascetic.portal.ca (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA06375; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:24:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ascetic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:24:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Curt Sampson To: Doug Rabson cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Doug Rabson wrote: > Don't worry, I am fully aware of the PALcode problem. I think it will be > a far easier problem to deal with the bootstrap installing PALcode than > for it to have a complete set of device drivers. There is plenty of > PALcode source in milo. There's plenty of device driver source code in Linux and NetBSD, too. :-) My point is, every time a new type of Alpha comes along, you have to write new PALcode and compile it in to the boot loader. This is not really all that different than having to write and compile in a new device driver every time a new device comes along. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 00:42:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA18092 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:42:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (csnet.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA17925 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:41:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.csa (csd [132.68.32.8]) by csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id KAA16519; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:41:06 +0300 Received: from localhost by csd.csa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA06990; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:41:45 +0300 Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:41:45 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: David Greenman cc: Terry Lambert , abial@nask.pl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. In-Reply-To: <199806010018.RAA09016@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 31 May 1998, David Greenman wrote: > As I was a VMS user and kernel software developer for 10 years prior to > hacking on Unix source, I'm quite familiar with how VMS works both internally > and externally. The linker in VMS is not installed with any special privilege > and any user can make a binary executable. A user, for example, can use kermit > or other file transfer utility to copy over a VMS executable and as long as > the file record type is correct (fixed, 512 byte records) and he sets the > execute permission (set file/prot=exec...I'd mention the system call to do > this if I could remember it), he can execute it. If you have BYPASS priv, then even this is not necessary. You simply run it. > As I mentioned above, the SYSPRIV privilege allows the process to access > resources as if he had a system UIC. There are 4 sets of permissions bits > in VMS: user, system, group, and world. A system UIC is (usually) a UIC that > has a group number that is less than 9. If you have a system UIC or you ^^^^^^^^^^^ VMS UICs are in octal (usually). A system UIC is one that has group < 10 (octal), or less than 8 if you happen to favor decimal notation... > have SYSPRIV, then you can access files and directories using the "system" > permissions bits, which usually default to RWED (all access). If your program Well, the default is something *you* set (with SET PROT/DEFAULT), so it's really up to you. > required SYSPRIV, then you apparantly had some sort of permissions problem - > perhaps you created the file with the wrong permissions to start with (no > user/group/world access) and this caused the subsequant syscall to set the > file exectuable to fail. One Can Only Imagine. > In any case, your statements regarding the linker and file executablity > are simply wrong. Not to mention VMS's ability (on vintage VAXs only, though) to run PDP-11 RSX executables (which are obviously not created with the VMS linker). A nice trick to play on a new person in a VMS shop (well, nowadays you'll have to dig for a VAX - it doesn't work in OpenVMS/Alpha) is the following: 1. Put a program that does something nasty in SYS$SYSTEM:RSX.EXE 2. Ask the innocent user to do RUN LOGIN.COM (or any other text file, the really creative can ask him to run the C source of a program...). VMS, not recognizing the image as a VMS executable will (not always, depending on the record format and the first few characters of the file) to run the image as an RSX image. Thus, it loads SYS$SYSTEM:RSX.EXE (to start PDP emulation mode), and the newbie gets what he deserves... :-) Try this on someone! People fall for it every time, trying to find out how come they can run their *source* code, and why it fails... > > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 00:47:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19050 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:47:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19034 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:47:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA00374; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:48:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:48:02 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Curt Sampson cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Curt Sampson wrote: > On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Doug Rabson wrote: > > > Don't worry, I am fully aware of the PALcode problem. I think it will be > > a far easier problem to deal with the bootstrap installing PALcode than > > for it to have a complete set of device drivers. There is plenty of > > PALcode source in milo. > > There's plenty of device driver source code in Linux and NetBSD, too. :-) > > My point is, every time a new type of Alpha comes along, you have > to write new PALcode and compile it in to the boot loader. This is > not really all that different than having to write and compile in > a new device driver every time a new device comes along. Thats true enough but we can always fall back to SRM console for those cases. For device drivers, my problem is having to maintain stand and kernel versions of the driver. Pulling in unmodified drivers from the kernel source sounds fiddly and tedious. PALcode is at least small, self-contained and portable between operating systems. Ideally, DEC would put OSF palcode into AlphaBIOS and make it possible to switch to it using 'call_pal swppal'. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 00:56:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19894 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:56:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19887 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:56:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA20008; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806010743.AAA20008@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Curt Sampson Cc: Doug Rabson , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 00:43:51 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Curt Sampson wrote: > There's plenty of device driver source code in Linux and NetBSD, too. :-) > > My point is, every time a new type of Alpha comes along, you have > to write new PALcode and compile it in to the boot loader. This is > not really all that different than having to write and compile in > a new device driver every time a new device comes along. Not really. Once you have working PALcode for a given platform, you never have to touch it again. This is not true with drivers, which may need modification for the next rev of a device. Also, the VAST majority of PALcode is common from one platform to another. Usually, the only differences are in the interrupt routing code, and these differences are usually very minor (esp. between same implementation revs, e.g. two 21064-based systems or two 21164-based systems). The other main difference is in the code that builds the CPU logout area; this code usually copies platform-specific core logic registers. However, this will be the same between two platforms which use the same core logic chipset (e.g. the AlphaStation 500 and the AlphaPC 164, both of which use an ALCOR2). However, it is worth noting that the MILO PALcode doesn't actually work very well, and doesn't implement an interface completely compatible with the OSF/1 PALcode shipped with the SRM (logout area is different, for example, and some exception vectors are different). In other words, I wouldn't exactly recommend using the MILO PALcode as a base. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 428 6939 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 01:11:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21568 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:11:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21562 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:11:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA00450; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:11:41 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:11:41 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Jason Thorpe cc: Curt Sampson , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <199806010743.AAA20008@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:24:23 -0700 (PDT) > Curt Sampson wrote: > > > There's plenty of device driver source code in Linux and NetBSD, too. :-) > > > > My point is, every time a new type of Alpha comes along, you have > > to write new PALcode and compile it in to the boot loader. This is > > not really all that different than having to write and compile in > > a new device driver every time a new device comes along. > > Not really. Once you have working PALcode for a given platform, you never > have to touch it again. This is not true with drivers, which may need > modification for the next rev of a device. > > Also, the VAST majority of PALcode is common from one platform to another. > Usually, the only differences are in the interrupt routing code, and these > differences are usually very minor (esp. between same implementation revs, > e.g. two 21064-based systems or two 21164-based systems). The other main > difference is in the code that builds the CPU logout area; this code usually > copies platform-specific core logic registers. However, this will be the > same between two platforms which use the same core logic chipset (e.g. > the AlphaStation 500 and the AlphaPC 164, both of which use an ALCOR2). > > However, it is worth noting that the MILO PALcode doesn't actually work > very well, and doesn't implement an interface completely compatible with > the OSF/1 PALcode shipped with the SRM (logout area is different, for > example, and some exception vectors are different). > > In other words, I wouldn't exactly recommend using the MILO PALcode as a base. Point taken. I am going to try to buy a copy of the EBSDK. Maybe that will have more up-to-date code in it. I still think that DEC should put a copy of the OSF palcode into AlphaBIOS. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 01:20:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23118 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ascetic.portal.ca (ascetic.portal.ca [206.87.139.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA22839 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by ascetic.portal.ca (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA07415; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:19:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ascetic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:19:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Curt Sampson Reply-To: Curt Sampson To: Doug Rabson cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Doug Rabson wrote: > > My point is, every time a new type of Alpha comes along, you have > > to write new PALcode and compile it in to the boot loader. This is > > not really all that different than having to write and compile in > > a new device driver every time a new device comes along. > > Thats true enough but we can always fall back to SRM console for those > cases. If you can fall back to SRM console, you don't need an ARC or AlphaBIOS boot loader, and thus don't need PALcode in the boot loader at all. One boot loader will work on all SRM systems. Note that the PALcode in Linux, though similar to OSF PALcode, is not the same as the OSF PALcode. > PALcode is at least small, self-contained and portable between operating > systems. Err...`sort of.' OSF PALcode is portable between Digital Unix and NetBSD (and presumably FreeBSD, at some point). VMS, NT and Linux all have their own PALcode. > Ideally, DEC would put OSF palcode into AlphaBIOS and make it > possible to switch to it using 'call_pal swppal'. Seems unlikely to me. The whole point of not having SRM console available is that you can't run DU, and are thus forced to by a more expensive machine (though with virtually identical hardware) to run it. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 01:55:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26964 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:55:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26958 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:55:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA00576; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:56:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:56:03 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Curt Sampson cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Curt Sampson wrote: > On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Doug Rabson wrote: > > > > My point is, every time a new type of Alpha comes along, you have > > > to write new PALcode and compile it in to the boot loader. This is > > > not really all that different than having to write and compile in > > > a new device driver every time a new device comes along. > > > > Thats true enough but we can always fall back to SRM console for those > > cases. > > If you can fall back to SRM console, you don't need an ARC or > AlphaBIOS boot loader, and thus don't need PALcode in the boot > loader at all. One boot loader will work on all SRM systems. > > Note that the PALcode in Linux, though similar to OSF PALcode, is > not the same as the OSF PALcode. Falling back to SRM really sucks in most cases. For some motherboards you can't have both SRM and AlphaBIOS loaded at the same time so switching between NT and BSD would not be a good end user experience. On top of that, SRM won't even boot my Miata unless I put the useless DEC 8bit graphics card into it. Since I actually run an X server on this box, this matters to me :-). > > > PALcode is at least small, self-contained and portable between operating > > systems. > > Err...`sort of.' OSF PALcode is portable between Digital Unix and > NetBSD (and presumably FreeBSD, at some point). VMS, NT and Linux > all have their own PALcode. Linux palcode is the same in most important places. It uses the same conventions for PTEs, PCBs, interrupts etc. Linux' milo has an old OSF palcode. Linux will run perfectly well booted from SRM console so it clearly doesn't require extensively customised code. > > > Ideally, DEC would put OSF palcode into AlphaBIOS and make it > > possible to switch to it using 'call_pal swppal'. > > Seems unlikely to me. The whole point of not having SRM console > available is that you can't run DU, and are thus forced to by a > more expensive machine (though with virtually identical hardware) > to run it. I don't want SRM and I don't want to run DU. I just want the palcode. Palcode != SRM. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 02:04:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28449 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:04:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28438 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:04:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA16424; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:07:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:07:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Joe McGuckin cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. In-Reply-To: <199805312148.OAA25397@monk.via.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 31 May 1998, Joe McGuckin wrote: > > I've thought about this in the past - specifically as it would apply to > a firewall machine. If binaries could be signed with with a key, and > the kernel exec routine required that a proper key be decryped before > loading the program, this would eliminate someone hacking onto a > firewall and using it as a platform for further mischief. Generally, they > like to bring over a toolkit of snooping programs written in 'C'. > > Even though they could compile their nifty toolset, nothing would execute > because they couldn't properly sign their binaries. > > Of course, the signing program would have to reside on a floppy or other > removable media. I don't think it would be wise to leave it on the > system. Thanks for the reply on the subject... :-) Yes, that's the situation I'm thinking about. As it was suggested to me by Niall Smart, we already have something called securelevel. but this protects only already existing binaries (and not new ones, possibly exploiting e.g. kernel bugs), and only on running system. To be more precise: I know that when securelevel=2 or something, all the binaries with immutable and append-only flags cannot be changed. But this doesn't prevent executing user's own program (possibly in order to get root shell). What I thought was two separate ideas: * the system would refuse to execute non-signed binary * the system would even refuse to boot and to load the kernel without appropriate authentication. This would require cooperation from filesystem (like encrypting parts of it, say superblocks) so that attacker couldn't get the disk to other machine and mount it there. First item is relatively easy to implement, the second one is much more difficult... As for removable media with encrypting program (and encryption keys): there exist small flash mems which can be placed on a keyring, and there are special sockets/readers to use them... I personally haven't seen them, but I know certain company which builds a version of standard PC with such a reader (they use it as means of storing private keys for their program). Andrzej Bialecki --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@nask.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 02:06:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28668 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:06:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28659 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:06:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA09890; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806010905.CAA09890@implode.root.com> To: Nadav Eiron cc: Terry Lambert , abial@nask.pl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Jun 1998 10:41:45 +0300." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 02:05:31 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (this is getting WAY off the subject of FreeBSD, but since we're discussing architecture...) >> As I was a VMS user and kernel software developer for 10 years prior to >> hacking on Unix source, I'm quite familiar with how VMS works both internally >> and externally. The linker in VMS is not installed with any special privilege >> and any user can make a binary executable. A user, for example, can use kermit >> or other file transfer utility to copy over a VMS executable and as long as >> the file record type is correct (fixed, 512 byte records) and he sets the >> execute permission (set file/prot=exec...I'd mention the system call to do >> this if I could remember it), he can execute it. > >If you have BYPASS priv, then even this is not necessary. You simply run >it. Normal users usually don't have BYPASS privilege, else you have a serious security hole. :-) >> As I mentioned above, the SYSPRIV privilege allows the process to access >> resources as if he had a system UIC. There are 4 sets of permissions bits >> in VMS: user, system, group, and world. A system UIC is (usually) a UIC that >> has a group number that is less than 9. If you have a system UIC or you > ^^^^^^^^^^^ >VMS UICs are in octal (usually). A system UIC is one that has group < 10 >(octal), or less than 8 if you happen to favor decimal notation... You're right that in VMS one usually specifies UICs in octal. However, according to the online documentation: SYSGEN> HELP PARAM MAXSYSGROUP Parameters MAXSYSGROUP Highest system UIC - The highest value that a group number can have and still be classified as a a system UIC group member. In decimal. Topic? SYSGEN> SHOW MAXSYSGROUP Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- MAXSYSGROUP 8 8 1 32768 UIC Group D -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 02:08:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA29024 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA29001 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:08:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA18181; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:11:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:11:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Joe McGuckin cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. In-Reply-To: <199805312148.OAA25397@monk.via.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ... And one more thing: as far as I know, Novell knows the notion of "purge on delete" flag, and it's extremely useful in situation when you don't want your data to stay indefinitely long in unused disk blocks... And it doesn't seem to require too many changes in FS code to implement (well, I can hear you saying: then go and do it! but FS is still black magic to me :-). Andrzej Bialecki --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@nask.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 03:15:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08393 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:15:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08375; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:15:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Spinner) with ESMTP id SAA08208; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:14:46 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199806011014.SAA08208@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Atsushi Murai cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libutil libutil.h logwtmp.c src/usr.bin/login login.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Jun 1998 01:47:05 MST." <199806010847.BAA12337@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:14:46 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Atsushi Murai wrote: > amurai 1998/06/01 01:47:05 PDT > Trim a domain part for wtmp as same as showed by "netstat -r". > Here is a some example for avoiding a confusion. Incidently, I think we should double the UT_HOSTNAME length as well. That means we end up with a 64 byte utmp record instead of the original 32 byte record in 2.x. BSDI also doubled the UT_HOSTNAME field, if we followed then we'd have compatable utmp/wtmp files again, and BSD/OS binaries could read ours too. I'm not sure I want to go through _another_ utmp record size change again though..... :-( I might also add that I think utmp/wtmp is a horrible hack. It would be great if it could be redesigned with a real API for reading/writing it. It would be nice to have a SYSV/Linux/Xopen/Unix98 compatable API too. A utmp.conf file might also be nice if it could configure the record sizes. Alternatively, perhaps use a DB utmp.db file with variable record sizes keyed on hashed tty name. wtmp.db would need something more space efficient than a hash method file and would need to maintain sequence, perhaps the btree DB method? As long as there was a get/put{u,w}tmp style API and logwtmp(), then that should cover most incompatability problems. Since libutil is shared, we could update that library and it would automatically update many of the utmp-using binaries to use the new format. Sigh, oh the things that could be done with infinite spare time... :-) Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 03:36:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11046 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:36:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (vZxSPz9saXEprpzSKHBZUnR91upP7bQe@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA11032 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.66] ([r0W8DycrR3h/J/wkS/4flTCZq6XUMQ7r]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ygRpj-0000F1-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:28:51 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ygRpi-0006fw-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:28:50 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:28:50 +0100 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hiren , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: macro definitions of VOP_??? Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > I was looking at the sources of FreeBSD virtual file system (VFS) > implementation. > It uses all macros starting with VOP_ (e.g. VOP_OPEN, VOP_CLOSE, > VOP_ACCESS, etc). > I could not find it at all. Can somebody respond with the name of the > file which contains > the macro definition of VOP_???. They are generated from a shell script, which lives in sys/kern I think. I'm sure Terry Lambert can reveal all. Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 03:45:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11919 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:45:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (k/WKlxFia1g/ai48DpsdDIoRE5XCJwwv@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA11909 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.66] ([1gSLZM47/jT/TzhJMeDjWKW5HUSJeQEj]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ygS4r-0000Jp-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:44:29 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ygS4q-0006k1-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:44:28 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:44:27 +0100 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Joe McGuckin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've thought about this in the past - specifically as it would apply to > a firewall machine. If binaries could be signed with with a key, and > the kernel exec routine required that a proper key be decryped before > loading the program, this would eliminate someone hacking onto a > firewall and using it as a platform for further mischief. Generally, they > like to bring over a toolkit of snooping programs written in 'C'. This is a pretty nifty idea, but perhaps is not as useful as you might think. Firstly, you would have to remove all scripting utilities capable of doing whatever the intruder is trying to achieve. Secondly, think of all the (non-sugid) executables which have potential buffer overflows, the attacker can simply overflow the buffer with code that will load from disk any code which he likes and execute it in that processes address space; it would not be necessary to create a new process. I have a couple of other ideas which I'm hoping to work on this summer. These include a per-binary flag to indicate if the stack should be marked non-executable, and a flag to indicate if the process' environment and arguments should be checked for non-printable ASCII characters before allowing execution. I haven't yet checked if it is possible to write shellcode using just printable ASCII characters though, so that last idea might be worthless (and yes, I know they are no 'silver bullet' to the perennial problem of buffer overflows). Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 03:53:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13087 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:53:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (QAkzALTCn5Rg+988QoZ4OXjZ1QH2yzq+@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA13081 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:53:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.66] ([Mk086wlRXYQU5FF1wfBzWJQU8JxZbCYN]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ygSCj-0000Ln-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:52:37 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ygSCi-0006lg-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:52:36 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:52:36 +0100 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Andrzej Bialecki , Joe McGuckin Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sun, 31 May 1998, Joe McGuckin wrote: > Yes, that's the situation I'm thinking about. As it was suggested to me by > Niall Smart, we already have something called securelevel. but this > protects only already existing binaries (and not new ones, possibly > exploiting e.g. kernel bugs) I'm not sure what you mean here, securelevels are intended to prevent binaries from being modified by anyone (among other things). You can set the immutable flags for any new binaries you compile. > and only on running system. To be more > precise: I know that when securelevel=2 or something, all the binaries > with immutable and append-only flags cannot be changed. But this doesn't > prevent executing user's own program (possibly in order to get root > shell). The huge majority of exploits can be written in shell script, so I doubt this will help much. For example, the vast majority of buffer overflows can simply be exploited using: suidprog -f `cat shellcode.bin` > What I thought was two separate ideas: > * the system would refuse to execute non-signed binary This is not useful, see my earlier post. Anyway, an easier way to do this would be to only allow the superuser to chmod +x an executable. > * the system would even refuse to boot and to load the kernel without > appropriate authentication. This would require cooperation from filesystem > (like encrypting parts of it, say superblocks) so that attacker couldn't > get the disk to other machine and mount it there. This is a good idea, though I would encrypt the whole disk. I have been thinking about this before and I think the best way to store the key to unlock the filesystem would be on a floppy disk, using stenography to embed it in a picture of Pamela Anderson or something. Anyway, I need to take those anti-paranoia pills now. Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 04:27:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA19080 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 04:27:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA19055 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 04:26:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA20569 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:11:38 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:11:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Binary diffs between -RELEASE and -STABLE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm preparing a CD release of 2.2.6 for one of Polish computer magazines. As someone pointed to me, perhaps it would be better to use -stable for this (as there were some bugs dicovered in the menatime). However, it seems wasteful to download the whole distribution (which I'm doing at the moment - I don't have enough resources to generate release myself) when I could download only a set of binary patches between 2.2.6-RELEASE and given 2.2-xxxxxx-SNAP... Andrzej Bialecki --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@nask.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 05:41:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27762 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mamba-e.gsfc.nasa.gov (mamba-f.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.245.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA27745; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uhl@mamba-e.gsfc.nasa.gov) Received: (from uhl@localhost) by mamba-e.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.4) id IAA26225; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:40:55 -0400 (EDT) From: George Uhl Message-Id: <199806011240.IAA26225@mamba-e.gsfc.nasa.gov> To: freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Problems with shadow interface Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: aARiq7xIKKg3lSm9Me4yaw== Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm running FreeBSD 2.2.2 and I've loaded the latest ALTQ (1.0.1) onto it. I'm configuring an ATM interface to make it multicast capable. ATM interface en0 configuration: ifconfig en0 198.119.22.6 netmask 0xfffffffc route add -iface 198.119.22.5 -link en0:3.0.0.a Shadow interface pvc0 configuration: pvcsif en0 (creates pvc0 shadow interface bound to en0) ifconfig pvc0 198.119.22.6 netmask 0xfffffffc 198.119.22.5 pvctxctl pvc0 0:10 -b 155M (assigns pvc 10 to pvc0) When I start mrouted, it finds pvc0 from the kernel and assigns it as vif#2. When mrouted installs vif#2 (pvc0) from reading the config file and tries to install it, it bombs with the following messages: warning - can't join group 224.0.0.4 on interface 198.119.22.6: can't assign requested address setsockopt IP_MULTICAST_IF 198.119.22.6: can't assign requested address It looks like mrouted cannot handle having the same address assigned to 2 interfaces even if the second interface is a pseudo bound to the real interface. Is anyone else experiencing similar problems the ALTQ ATM driver? Thanks, George Uhl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 07:31:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA15540 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 07:31:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA15514 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 07:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.0/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id QAA03113 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:31:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id LAA10788 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:41:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980601114109.A10777@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:41:09 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: macro definitions of VOP_??? Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <32EAFBCF.2985E09@wipinfo.soft.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.3i In-Reply-To: <32EAFBCF.2985E09@wipinfo.soft.net>; from hiren on Sun, Jan 26, 1997 at 12:08:07PM +0530 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4311 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ beware you have a broken date in your message... ] > Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:08:07 +0530 According to hiren: > I was looking at the sources of FreeBSD virtual file system (VFS) > implementation. You'll find many things in /sys/kern and in the various file-systems. > Another thing is, I was trying to find structure declarations of the > vop_???_args (e.g. vop_create_args, vop_mknod_args, vop_close_args, > vop_access_args, vop_read_args, etc.) This also I could not find in the > sources. These are generated in the kernel compilation directory. See vnode_if.* vnode_if.c/vnode_if.h: /* * This file is produced automatically. * Do not modify anything in here by hand. * * Created from @(#)vnode_if.sh 8.1 (Berkeley) 6/10/93 */ and /sys/kern/vnode_if.{src,sh}. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #60: Fri May 15 21:04:22 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 07:53:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18670 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 07:53:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18661; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 07:53:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Spinner) with ESMTP id WAA09295; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:52:31 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199806011452.WAA09295@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=) cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: patches for fast forwarding (with kernel option & sysctl) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 22:32:50 +0900." <19980531223250W.kazu@Mew.org> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:52:23 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kazu Yamamoto wrote: > > >> - FreeBSD with INRIA > > > Another reason not to wait :-P > > > > KAME is also supported :-P > > And Ishiguro-san, the author of Zebra, is our friend. :p > > --Kazu, KAME Project I'm beginning to suspect that the only sane outcome from this will be if we give the INRIA and WIDE/KAME/whatever-this-week folks some high-powered duelling weapons for a fight to the death or something.... 1/2 :-) Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm Netplex Consulting To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 08:09:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21975 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:09:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from widefw.csl.sony.co.jp (widefw.csl.sony.co.jp [133.138.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21835; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:07:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kjc@csl.sony.co.jp) Received: from hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp (root@hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp [43.27.98.57]) by widefw.csl.sony.co.jp (8.8.8/3.6W) with ESMTP id AAA03051; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:07:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (kjc@[127.0.0.1]) by hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp (8.8.8/3.6W/hotaka/98021914) with ESMTP id AAA00942; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:07:21 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199806011507.AAA00942@hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp> To: George Uhl cc: freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems with shadow interface In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Jun 1998 08:40:55 -0400." <199806011240.IAA26225@mamba-e.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 00:07:21 +0900 From: Kenjiro Cho Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> It looks like mrouted cannot handle having the same address >> assigned to 2 interfaces even if the second interface is >> a pseudo bound to the real interface. >> Is anyone else experiencing similar problems the ALTQ ATM >> driver? Don't ifconfig the "en" interface. You don't need it when you use shadow pvc interfaces. (if you do, use a different IP address.) --Kenjiro To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 08:35:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26655 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:35:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26617 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA19280; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:34:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Niall Smart cc: Andrzej Bialecki , Joe McGuckin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Niall Smart wrote: > Anyway, I need to take those anti-paranoia pills now. What, and never be able to do security work again? Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 09:36:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08254 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:36:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08213 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17550; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:35:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd017434; Mon Jun 1 09:35:42 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA08642; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:34:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806011634.JAA08642@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Signed executables, safe delete etc. To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:34:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nadav@cs.technion.ac.il, tlambert@primenet.com, abial@nask.pl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806010905.CAA09890@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Jun 1, 98 02:05:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > (this is getting WAY off the subject of FreeBSD, but since we're discussing > architecture...) [ ... ] > You're right that in VMS one usually specifies UICs in octal. However, > according to the online documentation: While you're in there, what are your installed images? The VMS system I normally use is blown up, waiting for a replacement QNA to get it back on the net where I can talk to it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 10:17:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14777 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:17:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14746 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:16:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05835; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:16:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd005775; Mon Jun 1 10:16:56 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10899; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:16:53 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806011716.KAA10899@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation To: dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:16:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at May 30, 98 11:50:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Does anyone know if there is documentation available for the ARC or > AlphaBIOS boot sequence? In particular, what services does the firmware > provide to the bootstrap program (e.g. linload.exe). Alternatively, does > anyone know where I can find the source code to linload.exe? You aren't using the OSF/1 PALcode? I think this is a mistake for an initial port. Is your Linux using the ARC code? The person at the University of Arizona, in Tucson, where I used to live, who did the initial Linux Alpha work was using a modified OSF PALcode (it was modified to allow as "little" as 16M of RAM). If you have an NT system, I would suggest disassembling the bootstrap for the purposes of documenting the interface. NT generally runs in protected mode as early as possible. One of the reasons NT is so hardware limited is that it, like FreeBSD, fails to implement a BIOS interface for use by drivers to allow it to "fall back" to a VMM-based driver. With this in mind, you should expect that the ARC/AlphaBIOS code is abandoned as soon ass the NT kernel image is loaded. You are probably going to have a problem supporting the NT PALcode in general because of VM differences. You may want to contact Chris Demetriou; I *think* he can still be reached at cgd@NetBSD.ORG. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 11:10:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26874 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:10:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun2 (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA26829 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:09:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2 (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA08010; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:09:03 -0400 Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:09:03 -0400 (EDT) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 To: Niall Smart cc: hiren , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: macro definitions of VOP_??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You can check the files vnode_if.sh and vnode_if.src. They are simple awk files. ------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang Department of Computer Science State University of New York at Binghamton Web Site: http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang ------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Niall Smart wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I was looking at the sources of FreeBSD virtual file system (VFS) > > implementation. > > It uses all macros starting with VOP_ (e.g. VOP_OPEN, VOP_CLOSE, > > VOP_ACCESS, etc). > > I could not find it at all. Can somebody respond with the name of the > > file which contains > > the macro definition of VOP_???. > > They are generated from a shell script, which lives in sys/kern I > think. I'm sure Terry Lambert can reveal all. > > Niall > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 11:20:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28424 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:20:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28346 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:19:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13194; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:19:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd013132; Mon Jun 1 11:19:37 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02732; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:19:31 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806011819.LAA02732@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation To: dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:19:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: cjs@portal.ca, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Jun 1, 98 09:56:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Falling back to SRM really sucks in most cases. For some motherboards you > can't have both SRM and AlphaBIOS loaded at the same time so switching > between NT and BSD would not be a good end user experience. Switching from FreeBSD to NT is *never* a good end user experience. 8-) 8-). > Linux palcode is the same in most important places. It uses the same > conventions for PTEs, PCBs, interrupts etc. The major difference is the enforcement of the amount of RAM. Really. > > > Ideally, DEC would put OSF palcode into AlphaBIOS and make it > > > possible to switch to it using 'call_pal swppal'. > > > > Seems unlikely to me. The whole point of not having SRM console > > available is that you can't run DU, and are thus forced to by a > > more expensive machine (though with virtually identical hardware) > > to run it. > > I don't want SRM and I don't want to run DU. I just want the palcode. > Palcode != SRM. The product manager insists on charging for the OSF PALcode. Perhaps he is a mole for Microsoft. One thing to consider is that some Alpha processors are now physically incapable of having the OSF PALcode loaded on them. One very bad aspect of the NT PALcode is that NT has different needs than UNIX for VM, etc.. One place you might look is the "DEC C for OpenVMS Alpha systems" documentation. The compiler has inline instructions to allow you to make PAL calls (implying that the available calls would be documented as to purpose and effect); this is from the most recent FYI on "DEC C". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 12:06:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05424 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:06:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05379 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:06:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01954; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:07:36 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:07:36 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson Reply-To: Doug Rabson To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <199806011716.KAA10899@usr04.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Does anyone know if there is documentation available for the ARC or > > AlphaBIOS boot sequence? In particular, what services does the firmware > > provide to the bootstrap program (e.g. linload.exe). Alternatively, does > > anyone know where I can find the source code to linload.exe? > > You aren't using the OSF/1 PALcode? I think this is a mistake for an > initial port. > > Is your Linux using the ARC code? The person at the University of > Arizona, in Tucson, where I used to live, who did the initial > Linux Alpha work was using a modified OSF PALcode (it was modified > to allow as "little" as 16M of RAM). I am using OSF palcode. OSF palcode and SRM console are different things. > > > If you have an NT system, I would suggest disassembling the bootstrap > for the purposes of documenting the interface. I am part way through reverse-engineering linload.exe (why isn't there source available for a fundamental part of a freeware operating system?). I also have the source to Linux/mips milo which is a useful reference to ARC bios calls. > > NT generally runs in protected mode as early as possible. One of > the reasons NT is so hardware limited is that it, like FreeBSD, fails > to implement a BIOS interface for use by drivers to allow it to "fall > back" to a VMM-based driver. > > With this in mind, you should expect that the ARC/AlphaBIOS code is > abandoned as soon ass the NT kernel image is loaded. Of course. As soon as the kernel is loaded, the BIOS goes straight in the bin. > > You are probably going to have a problem supporting the NT PALcode > in general because of VM differences. Again, I am not using NT palcode. When I write it, the ARC bootloader will switch to OSF palcode before running the kernel. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 12:10:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06482 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:10:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06358 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:10:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01975; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:10:53 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:10:53 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Terry Lambert cc: cjs@portal.ca, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <199806011819.LAA02732@usr01.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Falling back to SRM really sucks in most cases. For some motherboards you > > can't have both SRM and AlphaBIOS loaded at the same time so switching > > between NT and BSD would not be a good end user experience. > > > Switching from FreeBSD to NT is *never* a good end user experience. > > 8-) 8-). Much as I agree with you, I think this is what some people will wish to do. > > I don't want SRM and I don't want to run DU. I just want the palcode. > > Palcode != SRM. > > The product manager insists on charging for the OSF PALcode. Perhaps > he is a mole for Microsoft. This is not quite correct. There is a charge for the SRM console (which contains a copy of the OSF palcode). Freely distributable source of OSF palcode for several platforms is available. > > One thing to consider is that some Alpha processors are now physically > incapable of having the OSF PALcode loaded on them. >From what I understand, they are just untested in 64bit addressing modes. Personally, I think this is short term brain damage which will disappear when NT supports 64bit addressing. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 12:22:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09730 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:22:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from plunger.gdeb.com (plunger.gdeb.com [153.11.11.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09448 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:22:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org) Received: from clcrtr.clc.gdeb.com ([153.11.109.11]) by plunger.gdeb.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/CSC-E_1.8) id AA292468174; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:09:34 -0400 Received: from clcrtr.clc.gdeb.com (clcrtr [153.11.109.129]) by clcrtr.clc.gdeb.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA07863; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3572FDE7.41C67EA6@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:15:51 -0400 From: "Daniel M. Eischen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE i386) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fix for YAAIP (Yet another ATAPI install problem) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm 0 for 2 in trying to install FreeBSD from ATAPI CD-ROM drives. The problem and fix for the first time is in gnats (kern/6253). This time on another system, it seems that the drive reports its DRQ type as AT_DRQT_INTR (1), but an interrupt never occurs before sending the command. Below you'll find the quick hack I did to make it work and a dmesg. >From my experience, it seems that ATAPI CD-ROM drives are very quirky (this is a system at work - no SCSI :() Wouldn't it make things easier if we had some flags passed down to the atapi driver, or even had a quirk table for them? I don't see a correct method of fixing this without flags or quirk table entries. BTW, this was 2.2.6-RELEASE. Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org *** atapi.c.orig Sun May 31 10:24:00 1998 --- atapi.c Sun May 31 11:37:07 1998 *************** *** 562,570 **** --- 562,572 ---- goto again; } + #if 0 if (ata->intrcmd) /* Wait for interrupt before sending packet command */ return (1); + #endif /* Wait for DRQ. */ if (atapi_wait_cmd (ata, ac) < 0) { Copyright (c) 1992-1998 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE #0: Sun May 31 12:02:33 EDT 1998 deischen@myname.my.domain:/usr/src/sys/compile/cygnus Calibrating clock(s) ... i586 clock: 232877311 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193165 Hz CLK_USE_I8254_CALIBRATION not specified - using default frequency CLK_USE_I586_CALIBRATION not specified - using old calibration method CPU: Pentium (232.88-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x543 Stepping=3 Features=0x8001bf real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) Physical memory chunk(s): 0x00001000 - 0x0009efff, 647168 bytes (158 pages) 0x0021a000 - 0x03ffdfff, 64897024 bytes (15844 pages) avail memory = 63725568 (62232K bytes) pcibus_setup(1): mode 1 addr port (0x0cf8) is 0x80000058 pcibus_setup(1a): mode1res=0x80000000 (0x80000000) pcibus_check: device 0 is there (id=71008086) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: configuration mode 1 allows 32 devices. chip0 rev 1 on pci0:0:0 chip1 rev 1 on pci0:7:0 chip2 rev 1 on pci0:7:1 mapreg[20] type=1 addr=0000fc90 size=0010. chip3 rev 1 int d irq 9 on pci0:7:2 mapreg[20] type=1 addr=0000fca0 size=0020. chip4 rev 1 on pci0:7:3 vga0 rev 154 int a irq 9 on pci0:8:0 mapreg[10] type=0 addr=fd000000 size=1000000. mapreg[14] type=1 addr=0000f800 size=0100. mapreg[18] type=0 addr=fedff000 size=1000. vx0 <3COM 3C905 Fast Etherlink XL PCI> rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:13:0 mapreg[10] type=1 addr=0000fcc0 size=0040. mii[*mii*] address 00:60:08:c0:13:7b bpf: vx0 attached pci0: uses 16781312 bytes of memory from fd000000 upto fedfffff. pci0: uses 368 bytes of I/O space from f800 upto fcff. Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0: the current keyboard controller command byte 0047 [...] sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard [...] sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 not found at 0x2f8 sio2: disabled, not probed. sio3: disabled, not probed. lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface bpf: lp0 attached mse0: wrong signature ff mse0 not found at 0x23c psm0: current command byte:0047 psm0 at 0x60-0x64 irq 12 on motherboard [...] fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 4112MB (8421840 sectors), 8912 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, accel, ovlap, dma, iordis wcd0: 5512Kb/sec, 256Kb cache, audio play, 255 volume levels, ejectable tray wcd0: no disc inside, unlocked wdc1: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, intr, iordis wfd0: medium type unknown (no disk) wfd0: buggy Zip drive, 64-block transfer limit set [...] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 12:38:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12818 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:38:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12631 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:37:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id VAA26625; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:37:35 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:32:10 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Mike Smith cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: Vold (was: What to do with this thing ?! (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <199805301645.JAA06235@antipodes.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Moved the page. He sometimes switches his Indy off during the night. The guy should rent a bigger appartment. Try: http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/rmd/rmd.pl Thanks to Mark Willey for the homedir. Nick > > We actually have. It's called Remedae. And yes it is beta. And yes I > > would appreciate a lot of feedback whether it works and why not. > ... > > Can't remember the exact location, but a pointer can be found on > > > > http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/ > > http://mat075207.student.utwente.nl/~nick/rmd/index.html > > Unfortunately, it's not responding. Any alternatives? > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, Italy building: 27A tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 12:58:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18118 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:58:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18106 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:58:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA28219; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806011946.MAA28219@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Doug Rabson Cc: Terry Lambert , cjs@portal.ca, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 12:46:07 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:10:53 +0100 (BST) Doug Rabson wrote: > >From what I understand, they are just untested in 64bit addressing modes. > Personally, I think this is short term brain damage which will disappear > when NT supports 64bit addressing. You understand wrong. It is silly to say "they are just untested in 64bit addressing modes". The Alpha is _fundamentally_ a 64-bit architecture; all addresses, as far as the hardware is concerned, are 64 bits wide. No, the unconfirmed rumor is that these chips are missing the piece that allows the superpage to be moved. I.e. the KSEG is hardwired at 0x80000000 (just where it lives on the MIPS; it is normally configurable, and lives at 0xfffffc0000000000 in the OSF/1 PALcode). However, like I said, this rumor/threat has never been confirmed. I've heard lots of reports of "NT-only" systems running SRM consoles (and NetBSD :-) just fine, if you can get the SRM image for the Digital UNIX version of the platform. There is another rumor that some of these NT systems have suicide logic in the SROM that refuses to load anything other than an ARC console image. Who knows, really... Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 428 6939 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 12:59:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18268 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:59:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18235 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:59:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA28239; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806011947.MAA28239@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Doug Rabson Cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 12:47:42 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:07:36 +0100 (BST) Doug Rabson wrote: > Again, I am not using NT palcode. When I write it, the ARC bootloader > will switch to OSF palcode before running the kernel. And, in fact, you would not be able to use the NT PALcode, really. The functionality provided by the NT PALcode is really out in space, and makes the Alpha look way too much like a MIPS for my taste :-) Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 428 6939 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 13:08:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20512 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:08:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20416 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:08:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA02370; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:08:54 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:08:54 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Jason Thorpe cc: Terry Lambert , cjs@portal.ca, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <199806011946.MAA28219@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:10:53 +0100 (BST) > Doug Rabson wrote: > > > >From what I understand, they are just untested in 64bit addressing modes. > > Personally, I think this is short term brain damage which will disappear > > when NT supports 64bit addressing. > > You understand wrong. It is silly to say "they are just untested in 64bit > addressing modes". The Alpha is _fundamentally_ a 64-bit architecture; all > addresses, as far as the hardware is concerned, are 64 bits wide. I was recalling a Usenet article from a DEC person which I found when I was trawling for ARC and AlphaBIOS stuff using DejaNews. I can't find the article again . > > No, the unconfirmed rumor is that these chips are missing the piece that > allows the superpage to be moved. I.e. the KSEG is hardwired at > 0x80000000 (just where it lives on the MIPS; it is normally configurable, > and lives at 0xfffffc0000000000 in the OSF/1 PALcode). However, like I > said, this rumor/threat has never been confirmed. I've heard lots of > reports of "NT-only" systems running SRM consoles (and NetBSD :-) just fine, > if you can get the SRM image for the Digital UNIX version of the platform. > > There is another rumor that some of these NT systems have suicide logic > in the SROM that refuses to load anything other than an ARC console image. > > Who knows, really... Indeed :-) -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 13:08:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20554 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20501 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:08:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA02374; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:09:27 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:09:27 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Jason Thorpe cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <199806011947.MAA28239@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:07:36 +0100 (BST) > Doug Rabson wrote: > > > Again, I am not using NT palcode. When I write it, the ARC bootloader > > will switch to OSF palcode before running the kernel. > > And, in fact, you would not be able to use the NT PALcode, really. The > functionality provided by the NT PALcode is really out in space, and makes > the Alpha look way too much like a MIPS for my taste :-) I haven't even bothered reading that chapter of the book... -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 13:12:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21449 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:12:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21348 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:12:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00849; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806011907.MAA00849@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Andrzej Bialecki cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Binary diffs between -RELEASE and -STABLE In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:11:37 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 12:07:14 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > I'm preparing a CD release of 2.2.6 for one of Polish computer magazines. > As someone pointed to me, perhaps it would be better to use -stable for > this (as there were some bugs dicovered in the menatime). However, it > seems wasteful to download the whole distribution (which I'm doing at the > moment - I don't have enough resources to generate release myself) when I > could download only a set of binary patches between 2.2.6-RELEASE and > given 2.2-xxxxxx-SNAP... You can't do this because each entire dist is a single LZW-encoded stream. Changing a single byte in the stream changes everything from there on down. I have a mostly complete tool for producing binary upgrades between one dist and the next, but this is only applicable to installed systems. If you have the resources to build a CDROM image, you have the resources to build a release, as a general rule. Failing that, you could grab the most recent -SNAP off releng22.freebsd.org (it's stale because building -stable on -current is broken at the moment). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 14:53:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17241 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:53:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ascetic.portal.ca (ascetic.portal.ca [206.87.139.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17204 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:53:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by ascetic.portal.ca (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA19751; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:53:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ascetic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:53:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Curt Sampson To: Terry Lambert cc: Doug Rabson , mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <199806011819.LAA02732@usr01.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > One place you might look is the "DEC C for OpenVMS Alpha systems" > documentation. The compiler has inline instructions to allow you > to make PAL calls (implying that the available calls would be > documented as to purpose and effect).... If you're looking for that documentation, just grab a copy of _Alpha Axp Architecture Reference Manual_ by Sites and Witek (Digital Press). The most recent edition documents both the VMS and DU calls in OSF1 PALCode, and the NT calls in the ARC (or whatever it is) PALcode. I ordered my copy from www.clbooks.com. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 16:03:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01870 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kstreet.interlog.com (kws@kstreet.interlog.com [198.53.146.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01797 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kws@kstreet.interlog.com) Received: (from kws@localhost) by kstreet.interlog.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14535; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:01:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kws) To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation References: <199805310942.CAA20634@rah.star-gate.com> From: Kevin Street Date: 01 Jun 1998 19:01:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: Amancio Hasty's message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 02:42:44 -0700" Message-ID: <87d8csvi93.fsf@kstreet.interlog.com> Lines: 82 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty writes: > Well, I guess on Linux star office misbehaves by deleting its ipc > shared data segments when it exits. > > Most likely whats going is that we are not handling properly the ipc > calls or possibly something else which is causing Star Office not > to delete the ipc shared data segments upon exit. I have a possible fix for this. I have not tested this with Star Office (I downloaded 3.1 which does not have the problem, I took a look for 4, but at the dl rate I'm currently getting it's an 8 hour download ... I'm not going to do this) but x11amp was also leaving shared segments around and it's a *lot* smaller. x11amp appears to be calling shmctl(id, IPC_RMID, 0) and the emulation layer does not like the null shmid_ds buffer pointer. The emulation layer returned an error without ever calling FreeBSD's shmctl, so the segments were not being deleted when the reference count went to zero. I think there's a high probability that Star Office does the same thing. Can someone who has Star Office 4 try this patch out and confirm whether this works for Star Office too? To try it: save the following patch to /tmp/linux.pat modstat modunload -i cd /usr/src/sys/i386/linux patch < /tmp/linux.pat cd /usr/src/lkm/linux make all install linux run star office and check to see if the shared segments are being cleaned up after it exits. Here's the patch to /usr/src/sys/i386/linux/linux_ipc.c *** linux_ipc.c.orig Mon Jun 1 11:35:17 1998 --- linux_ipc.c Mon Jun 1 14:02:11 1998 *************** *** 430,443 **** case LINUX_IPC_RMID: bsd_args.shmid = args->arg1; bsd_args.cmd = IPC_RMID; ! if ((error = copyin(args->ptr, (caddr_t)&linux_shmid, ! sizeof(linux_shmid)))) ! return error; ! linux_to_bsd_shmid_ds(&linux_shmid, &bsd_shmid); ! bsd_args.buf = (struct shmid_ds*)stackgap_alloc(&sg, sizeof(struct shmid_ds)); ! if ((error = copyout((caddr_t)&bsd_shmid, (caddr_t)bsd_args.buf, ! sizeof(struct shmid_ds)))) ! return error; return shmctl(p, &bsd_args); case LINUX_IPC_INFO: --- 430,447 ---- case LINUX_IPC_RMID: bsd_args.shmid = args->arg1; bsd_args.cmd = IPC_RMID; ! if (NULL == args->ptr) ! bsd_args.buf = NULL; ! else { ! if ((error = copyin(args->ptr, (caddr_t)&linux_shmid, ! sizeof(linux_shmid)))) ! return error; ! linux_to_bsd_shmid_ds(&linux_shmid, &bsd_shmid); ! bsd_args.buf = (struct shmid_ds*)stackgap_alloc(&sg, sizeof(struct shmid_ds)); ! if ((error = copyout((caddr_t)&bsd_shmid, (caddr_t)bsd_args.buf, ! sizeof(struct shmid_ds)))) ! return error; ! } return shmctl(p, &bsd_args); case LINUX_IPC_INFO: -- Kevin Street street@iName.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 16:14:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04317 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:14:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ascetic.portal.ca (ascetic.portal.ca [206.87.139.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04296 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by ascetic.portal.ca (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA19658; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:45:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ascetic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:45:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Curt Sampson To: Doug Rabson cc: Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Doug Rabson wrote: > Freely distributable source of OSF > palcode for several platforms is available. Excellent! Where does one get this? And why isn't it on the EBDSK or in the Linux source (both of which contain something that pretty closely resembles OSF PALcode, but not closely enough that it would run DU or NetBSD)? cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 16:24:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06647 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:24:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA06587; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:23:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06079; Mon, 1 Jun 98 19:23:08 EDT Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA25490; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:22:20 -0400 Message-Id: <19980601192220.A25402@ct.picker.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:22:20 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fxtv 0.47 released Mail-Followup-To: multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The features & fixes list was piling up so I thought it'd be a good time to cut a new version. Available here: http://multiverse.com/~rhh/fxtv/ Brief summary of changes (see ChangeLog for details): : YUV video capture : X10 MouseRemote support (www.x10.com) : MPEG-encode streaming (IYUV & PPM) : Multi-Bt848 card support : Multi-/no-soundcard support, and TV audio on CD-IN : Can now get at internal audio mux from GUI : Support clean build on non-XFree86 and Linux systems : New Action Rtns: TVToggleFreeze, TVVideoRecordStart/Stop : Video conversion process externalized (user-defined script) : Grab mouse when entering Zoom full-screen mode : More verbose "-debug startup" output : Misc. Fixes (XImage conv, TIFF saves, remote display, X ext detection, etc.) By default, it builds for XFree86. To build on Xi/etc., grab the source package and do: "gmake HAVE_XFREE86=NO" You might also check out the "Sentinel.mps" sample off the web page. I captured it using IYUV last night, on stock IBM/WD EIDE drives no less :-) A note on video encoding. mpeg_encode(1) works fine for IYUV @ 320x240, but it doesn't like the IYUV video stream length for many other resolutions so I left RGB/PPM the default capture path. For other resolutions, try RGB/PPM, but by all means use IYUV/YUV for 320x240. It gives you 25% more disk bandwidth to play with. (Also, if you dig into this and figure out what mpeg_encode's so upset about please let me know.) Enjoy! Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 16:43:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11404 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:43:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA11363; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:42:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06464; Mon, 1 Jun 98 19:42:19 EDT Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA25549; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:41:16 -0400 Message-Id: <19980601194116.A25497@ct.picker.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:41:16 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: X-10 Mouse Remote patch Mail-Followup-To: multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here's a kernel/moused(8) patch to -current that adds "X-10 Mouse Remote" support to moused: http://multiverse.com/~rhh/moused.x10remote.patch.gz (it's also enclosed in the Fxtv-0.47 source package). See: http://www.x10.com/products/x10_mk19a.htm for details on this product. The patch supports using the X10 Mouse Remote in both stand-alone and pass-through configurations, so you can plug your mouse and remote into the same serial port, use the mouse for X, and use the remote for other apps like Fxtv. The mouse events are channeled through the syscons/sysmouse I/F like normal, and the remote buttons are "syphoned off" to a UNIX-domain stream socket (defined as _PATH_MOUSEREMOTE in ) for a remote-aware app to grab and use. Hope you find this useful. Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 17:47:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24145 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:47:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA24104 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:46:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02024 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806012341.QAA02024@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: kernfs/procfs questions... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:41:59 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG With the recent discussions regarding emulation of Linux' procfs, as well as other comments on the general topic, I'm wondering what the feeling is with regard to other, not-specifically-process-related data in procfs. The Linux model is to have a separate directory for the kernel (/proc/kern or similar). This keeps the root-level clutter down, but does "pollute" the namespace. Thet NetBSD folks have something similar (although the implementation still seems a bit raw) with their 'kernfs', which they mount on /kern, keeping the separation between the two clear. Does anyone have any strong opinions? Justifications? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 19:03:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08092 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:03:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from couatl.uchicago.edu (couatl.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08024 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:03:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@couatl.uchicago.edu) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by couatl.uchicago.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id VAA01298; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:03:08 -0500 (CDT) To: Kevin Street Cc: Amancio Hasty , Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Star Office Installation References: <199805310942.CAA20634@rah.star-gate.com> <87d8csvi93.fsf@kstreet.interlog.com> From: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 01 Jun 1998 21:03:08 -0500 In-Reply-To: Kevin Street's message of "01 Jun 1998 19:01:44 -0400" Message-ID: <87wwb0a7c3.fsf@couatl.uchicago.edu> Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.9/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kevin Street writes: > Can someone who has Star Office 4 try this patch out and confirm > whether this works for Star Office too? Not super extensive testing here, but I tried it briefly and it worked! -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 19:04:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08273 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:04:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08159 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:03:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01466; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:03:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806020203.VAA01466@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806012341.QAA02024@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jun 1, 98 04:41:59 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:03:25 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith said: > > With the recent discussions regarding emulation of Linux' procfs, as > well as other comments on the general topic, I'm wondering what the > feeling is with regard to other, not-specifically-process-related data > in procfs. > > The Linux model is to have a separate directory for the kernel > (/proc/kern or similar). This keeps the root-level clutter down, but > does "pollute" the namespace. > > Thet NetBSD folks have something similar (although the implementation > still seems a bit raw) with their 'kernfs', which they mount on /kern, > keeping the separation between the two clear. > > Does anyone have any strong opinions? Justifications? > I much prefer sysctl, being a convert from the kernfs camp. Procfs is just bogus, not well thought out re-invention (IMO.) It seems that the pseudo-MIB scheme of sysctl is nice. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 19:16:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10961 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:16:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10883; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:15:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02433; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806020111.SAA02433@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:03:25 CDT." <199806020203.VAA01466@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:11:03 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith said: > > > > With the recent discussions regarding emulation of Linux' procfs, as > > well as other comments on the general topic, I'm wondering what the > > feeling is with regard to other, not-specifically-process-related data > > in procfs. > > > > The Linux model is to have a separate directory for the kernel > > (/proc/kern or similar). This keeps the root-level clutter down, but > > does "pollute" the namespace. > > > > Thet NetBSD folks have something similar (although the implementation > > still seems a bit raw) with their 'kernfs', which they mount on /kern, > > keeping the separation between the two clear. > > > > Does anyone have any strong opinions? Justifications? > > > I much prefer sysctl, being a convert from the kernfs camp. Procfs > is just bogus, not well thought out re-invention (IMO.) It seems that > the pseudo-MIB scheme of sysctl is nice. Personally, I like the basic idea (unified hierarchical namespace, method-based access, etc), but sysctl (and kernfs') implementation is unpleasantly inflexible. I also agree with Garrett that the filesystem metaphor isn't half bad when it comes to at least basic access control for parameters, and this is where either the Linux or NetBSD approaches lead the way. I'm also swayed in that we *do* need to follow the Linux lead at least to the point where we can run their binaries with a reasonable degree of success, so there's a little pressure on the border. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 1 19:26:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12718 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:26:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12541; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:25:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01608; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:25:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806020225.VAA01608@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806020111.SAA02433@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jun 1, 98 06:11:03 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:25:24 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith said: > > > > > I much prefer sysctl, being a convert from the kernfs camp. Procfs > > is just bogus, not well thought out re-invention (IMO.) It seems that > > the pseudo-MIB scheme of sysctl is nice. > > Personally, I like the basic idea (unified hierarchical namespace, > method-based access, etc), but sysctl (and kernfs') implementation is > unpleasantly inflexible. > Our sysctl is really easy to do all kinds of neat things. Try adding a sysctl entry vs. a procfs (or kernfs) entry. In fact, I am about to add about 50 sysctl's, and the amount of control that the sysctl mechanism allows is staggering. Sysctl can provide both method and variable access easily. To me it makes no sense to put something like this under a mount point. If it needs to be globally exported, make it an SNMP MIB. > > I'm also swayed in that we *do* need to follow the Linux lead at least > to the point where we can run their binaries with a reasonable degree > of success, so there's a little pressure on the border. > I would only believe so for the limited needs for Linux emulation. Note that we do have kernfs, it is just in mothballs. I was a convert from the FS methodology to the sysctl methodology, and with our much better sysctl API (both in kernel and user) it is quite usable. (I had to add some sysctl's under NetBSD, and it was very primitive.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 00:02:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01693 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:02:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01659 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:02:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA03987; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:03:21 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:03:21 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Curt Sampson cc: Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Curt Sampson wrote: > On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Doug Rabson wrote: > > > Freely distributable source of OSF > > palcode for several platforms is available. > > Excellent! Where does one get this? And why isn't it on the EBDSK > or in the Linux source (both of which contain something that pretty > closely resembles OSF PALcode, but not closely enough that it would > run DU or NetBSD)? Which parts of the PALcode in the Linux source are incompatible? I think Jason said that it was just the handling of the logout area. I don't think I will have any real problem using this code for FreeBSD. The main problem for NetBSD with milo would be with the HWRPB, I think. Milo only provides an extremely rough sketch of this. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 03:08:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24078 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:08:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de [194.233.237.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24068 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:08:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cracauer@gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA13875; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:10:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980602121025.04763@cons.org> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:10:25 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: Niall Smart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: allegro lisp Mail-Followup-To: Niall Smart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Niall Smart on Thu, May 28, 1998 at 01:13:42PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In , Niall Smart wrote: > AFAIK Allegro Lisp is used by quite a few people who run FreeBSD, > therefore I suggest we contact them to inquire about the possibility > of helping to ensure that the Linux version works under emulation on > FreeBSD. A fix for the 4.2 coredump problem has been committed to -current a few weeks ago. I didn't try it, but the change was supposed to make ACL work. > As someone has noted already, 5.0 beta does not work in > FreeBSD compatability because it expects a linux /proc filesystem which > the emulation layer does not fully support. Perhaps they will consider > modifying it to do whatever it is trying to do in a more portable way, > or at least one which is compatable with our compatability layer :) Well, I think a) relying on undocumented procfs behaviour to do anything will make your software break on future version of the OS as well. b) Should we try to emulate /proc, we will quickly run into problems that kernel or process structure internals will be exposed when they shouldn't. Or in other words, there's a good chance that the application in question moves from using an API to using an inplementation, which is where we have to stop emulating. > If anyone here is friendly with the folks at Franz Inc. or has a support > contract with them and is willing to request this of them then please > email me. Otherwise I will contact them myself later this week. Please do so. Maybe they can provide an exact list they expect /proc to do (that menas what they are missing from the API). Also, check the Staroffice thread on -hackers as well, exactly the same problem. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany http://www.bsdhh.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 03:37:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA27392 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:37:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA27387 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA12908 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:50:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:50:14 -0500 (CDT) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" Message-Id: <199806021050.FAA12908@iworks.InterWorks.org> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fix for YAAIP (Yet another ATAPI install problem) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I wrote: > I'm 0 for 2 in trying to install FreeBSD from ATAPI CD-ROM > drives. The problem and fix for the first time is in gnats > (kern/6253). This time on another system, it seems that the > never occurs before sending the command. Below you'll find > the quick hack I did to make it work and a dmesg. After looking at atapi.c in -stable and -current, it looks like there is a fix for this :) Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 03:46:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28351 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:46:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA28342 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:46:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA09619; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:16:27 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980602201627.P22406@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:16:27 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Vinum alpha 0.03 available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 2 June 1998 The third alpha version of vinum is now available for download at ftp://ftp.lemis.com/pub/vinum/vinum-0.02.tar.gz. ABOUT VINUM =========== Vinum is a logical volume manager modeled after the Veri- tas(R) volume manager. It is not a clone of Veritas, howev- er, and attempts to solve a number of problems more elegant- ly than Veritas. It also offers features that Veritas does not have. This guide explains how to install and configure Vinum on a FreeBSD system. See also the technical notes and the man pages Vinum(4) and Vinum(8). Concepts ________ As used in this document, a volume manager is a software component which isolates file systems from the underlying disk hardware. Instead of building file systems on disk partitions, they are built on volumes. This has a number of advantages: o Volumes may span disk drives. o Volumes may be larger than any drive. o By spreading the disk load over multiple volumes, it is possible to improve performance. o By dynamically increasing the size of a volume, it is pos- sible to solve space problems without repartitioning. o By replicating data within the volume, it is possible to improve availability. o By changing the volume configuration on-line, it is possi- ble to reorganize disk storage on-line. CHANGES IN VERSION 0.03 ======================= - Add a second verbose flag to vinum(8). -v is moderately verbose, -V is very verbose. - Rewrite state change code. This should fix any problems experienced in previous versions. - Get RAID 5 code working (not included in this version). FIXES IN VERSION 0.02 ===================== - Fix the source format to conform with style(9) - Improve some configuration file checking. This version is not quite as likely to cause the system to spontaneously reboot. - resetconfig no longer causes the system to drop into the debugger on the next create command - I have included a .gdbinit file for testing, if you want to do this. I haven't documented how to do it yet. Contact me or wait a day or two if you want to use this feature. CAVEATS IN THE CURRENT VERSION ============================== A couple of things to observe: - The configuration is not really up to scratch. I know this, but I plan to leave many fixes until I have attained the more basic goal of stable operation. - The partitions used for vinum *must* be of type "unused". This helps avoid shooting yourself in the foot by building a vinum on top of a file system partition. If you try, you will get the message "Drive has invalid partition type". PREVIOUS ANNOUNCEMENTS ====================== Vinum is available under a Berkeley-style copyright. It is implemented as a loadable kernel module (LKM). This version of vinum contains a subset of the final functionality, roughly equivalent to the ccd driver. In particular, the following restrictions apply: Automatic startup is not yet complete. It is currently necessary to re-configure the volumes every time the subsystem is started. This operation does not change the data on the disks. Detection of differences between the version of the kernel and the LKM is not yet implemented. Detaching plexes and subdisks has not yet been implemented. Reintegration of failed disks has not yet been implemented. vinum requires a special version of newfs, which has not yet been committed. The current version places some restrictions on volume names. See the documentation for further information. This version of vinum will run (hopefully) on FreeBSD 2.2.6 and recent versions of 3.0-CURRENT. It may also run on 2.2.5, but I haven't tested it. Due to changes in -CURRENT, it will not compile on versions older than about mid-March 1998. Due to licensing restrictions, this version does not contain the RAID5 functionality. If you are interested in testing this, please contact me privately. Don't use this version for performance testing. I have a lot of debug code in there, some of which is quite slow. At the moment, my main concern is stability. Documentation for this version includes man pages (vinum(4) and vinum(8)) and a user's guide, currently (for convenience) in /usr/src/sbin/vinum/doc. You can build PostScript versions of any of these by building the appropriate file (vinum4.ps, vinum8.ps or userguide.ps) in this directory. For convenience' sake, the distribution includes the PostScript file /usr/src/sbin/vinum/doc/userguide.ps. This document is intended to be formatted with troff; you can format it with nroff, but it will look funny. I don't intend to fix this. The documentations Makefile also refers to a file notes.*, which will contain technical notes when it is finished. All documents refer to the RAID5 functionality. Please ignore them for the time being. If you use this version, *PLEASE* give me some feedback, even if things work fine. In particular, of course, I'd like to hear of any problems you have either with the software or the documentation. I'll also accept requests for enhancement, but don't expect to see them in the near future: there's still a lot of code to be written. Greg Lehey -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 04:08:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02441 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:08:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beast.gu.net (beast-fxp0.gu.net [194.93.191.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA02355; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:07:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stesin@gu.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beast.gu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA10420; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:07:54 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from stesin@gu.net) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:07:54 +0300 (EEST) From: Andrew Stesin Reply-To: stesin@gu.net To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD/Alpha -- ? Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Whom should I talk to, about FreeBSD on Alpha platform? Seems that something interesting might happen here... Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 05:13:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:13:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA12529 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA07466; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:13:11 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA23762; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:12:46 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980602141246.12993@follo.net> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:12:46 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Niall Smart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: allegro lisp References: <19980602121025.04763@cons.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980602121025.04763@cons.org>; from Martin Cracauer on Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 12:10:25PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 12:10:25PM +0200, Martin Cracauer wrote: > In , Niall Smart wrote: > > AFAIK Allegro Lisp is used by quite a few people who run FreeBSD, > > therefore I suggest we contact them to inquire about the possibility > > of helping to ensure that the Linux version works under emulation on > > FreeBSD. > > A fix for the 4.2 coredump problem has been committed to -current a > few weeks ago. I didn't try it, but the change was supposed to make > ACL work. It has also been committed to -stable. It seems to work fine. > > As someone has noted already, 5.0 beta does not work in > > FreeBSD compatability because it expects a linux /proc filesystem which > > the emulation layer does not fully support. Perhaps they will consider > > modifying it to do whatever it is trying to do in a more portable way, > > or at least one which is compatable with our compatability layer :) They have added support for reading the FreeBSD /proc if the Linux /proc isn't there :-) > b) Should we try to emulate /proc, we will quickly run into problems > that kernel or process structure internals will be exposed when > they shouldn't. Or in other words, there's a good chance that the > application in question moves from using an API to using an > inplementation, which is where we have to stop emulating. Linux is already doing this. They're exposing things that seem to be very, very difficult to expose for us, and which I believe would limit further possibilies for development if we choose to export. > > If anyone here is friendly with the folks at Franz Inc. or has a support > > contract with them and is willing to request this of them then please > > email me. Otherwise I will contact them myself later this week. > > Please do so. Maybe they can provide an exact list they expect /proc > to do (that menas what they are missing from the API). Also, check the > Staroffice thread on -hackers as well, exactly the same problem. I've been in contact with them. I think they've resolved the /proc issues, but they don't want to document that ACL for Linux runs under FreeBSD until they know exactly how well it run, and can document any limitations. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 07:03:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29487 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:03:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from righi.ml.org (RIGHI.DF.UNIBO.IT [137.204.49.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA29442; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:03:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd@righi.ml.org) Received: from localhost (bsd@localhost) by righi.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA02241; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:01:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bsd@righi.ml.org) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:01:12 +0200 (CEST) From: bsd mailing lists To: Andrew Stesin cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Alpha -- ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am interested too in the FreeBS Alpha porting whi I can ask for this? thanks Rick On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Andrew Stesin wrote: > > Whom should I talk to, about FreeBSD on Alpha platform? > Seems that something interesting might happen here... > > > Best regards, > Andrew Stesin > > nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 07:58:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09071 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:58:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coconut.itojun.org (root@coconut.itojun.org [210.160.95.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09037 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:58:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from itojun@itojun.org) Received: from localhost (itojun@localhost.itojun.org [127.0.0.1]) by coconut.itojun.org (8.8.8+3.0Wbeta12/3.6W) with ESMTP id XAA26418 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:58:19 +0900 (JST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: annual USENIX conference, any plans? X-Template-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.org X-Template-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@itojun.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD 90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2 From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:58:19 +0900 Message-ID: <26414.896799499@coconut.itojun.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Maybe I lost some incoming emails, but is there any plans/whatever for FreeBSD BOF or whatever, at annual USENIX conference this month? Who will be visiting there? itojun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 08:11:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10639 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:11:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10614 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:10:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id LAA03877; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:10:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? In-Reply-To: <26414.896799499@coconut.itojun.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh wrote: > Maybe I lost some incoming emails, but is there any plans/whatever > for FreeBSD BOF or whatever, at annual USENIX conference this month? > Who will be visiting there? I know that justin gibbs and luigi rizzo will be there giving a talk. If I remember correctly. Maybe more than that. Chris -- "I don't do favors, I accumulate debts" ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 09:37:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26657 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:37:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles327.castles.com [208.214.167.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26633; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:37:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02616; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806020158.SAA02616@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:25:24 CDT." <199806020225.VAA01608@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:58:12 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith said: > > > > > > > I much prefer sysctl, being a convert from the kernfs camp. Procfs > > > is just bogus, not well thought out re-invention (IMO.) It seems that > > > the pseudo-MIB scheme of sysctl is nice. > > > > Personally, I like the basic idea (unified hierarchical namespace, > > method-based access, etc), but sysctl (and kernfs') implementation is > > unpleasantly inflexible. > > > Our sysctl is really easy to do all kinds of neat things. Try adding > a sysctl entry vs. a procfs (or kernfs) entry. In fact, I am about > to add about 50 sysctl's, and the amount of control that the sysctl > mechanism allows is staggering. Sysctl can provide both method > and variable access easily. To me it makes no sense to put something > like this under a mount point. If it needs to be globally exported, > make it an SNMP MIB. The plusses for putting things in the filesystem space are tough to ignore though: - Namespace traversal works properly - Access and traversal can be controlled using permissions - You can use unspecialised tools for access (eg. cat(1)) - Dynamism is easier than in the sysctl world I was musing over all this recently while I was trying to work out how best to export DMI information from various system components; specifically how to aggregate the output from the SMB BIOS fields, DMI-related drivers (eg. for the LM78, S.M.A.R.T. disk support etc) and other kernel components. To do this "well" we need to be able to add and remove entities from the space, and traverse it easily. These are things that the current sysctl implementation doesn't do well, and in conjunction with other things (eg. Linux support) I was wondering about other approaches. > > I'm also swayed in that we *do* need to follow the Linux lead at least > > to the point where we can run their binaries with a reasonable degree > > of success, so there's a little pressure on the border. > > > I would only believe so for the limited needs for Linux emulation. Note > that we do have kernfs, it is just in mothballs. I was a convert from > the FS methodology to the sysctl methodology, and with our much better > sysctl API (both in kernel and user) it is quite usable. (I had > to add some sysctl's under NetBSD, and it was very primitive.) Sure; but can't these sort of improvements be made to the methods for manipulating procfs nodes? What other drawbacks are there to the FS model? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 09:51:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28382 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28334; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:51:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02867; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:50:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806021650.LAA02867@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806020158.SAA02616@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jun 1, 98 06:58:12 pm" To: mike@dingo.cdrom.com (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:50:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith said: > > Sure; but can't these sort of improvements be made to the methods for > manipulating procfs nodes? What other drawbacks are there to the FS > model? > It is bogus that writing to a file "controls" something inside the system, that is kind-of what SNMP is for. Now, if someone wants a kernfs that is compatible with our sysctl, they should be able to use the sysctl info to build the kernfs. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 10:17:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02505 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:17:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02494 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:17:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA08928; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806021702.KAA08928@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Doug Rabson Cc: Curt Sampson , Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 10:02:15 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:03:21 +0100 (BST) Doug Rabson wrote: > Which parts of the PALcode in the Linux source are incompatible? I think > Jason said that it was just the handling of the logout area. I don't > think I will have any real problem using this code for FreeBSD. The main > problem for NetBSD with milo would be with the HWRPB, I think. Milo only > provides an extremely rough sketch of this. Note, the publicly available MILO PALcode _is not_ the one that most MILO images use. The public MILO source is based on the EBDSK PALcode, which happens to not work very well. There are bugs in the TLB management code, etc. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 428 6939 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 10:58:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09642 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:58:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09469 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29632; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:57:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199806021757.KAA29632@kithrup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199806012341.QAA02024.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@dingo.cdrom.com> you write: >Does anyone have any strong opinions? Justifications? The linux procfs is an abomination. It should have been broken into /kern and /proc. I like kernfs; I used to have it installed, but sysctl did end up changing it. Frankly, I prefer kernfs to sysctl, unlike John -- sysctl is an interface that just cries out for being in the filesystem. (If you don't believe that, then you also do not get to complain about the SysV IPC mechanisms having a similar-but-seperate namespace.) I don't know what to do about the linux procfs compatibility problems; that may, in fact, be an ideal use for portalfs, although I haven't looked into it closely enough. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 11:42:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18148 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:42:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from swing.ca.sandia.gov (swing.ca.sandia.gov [146.246.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18135 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:42:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov) Received: from swing.ca.sandia.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by swing.ca.sandia.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA12205 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 06:43:05 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov) Message-Id: <199806021143.GAA12205@swing.ca.sandia.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: VM Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 06:43:05 -0500 From: "Chris Csanady" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I am working on implementing a low level message passing protocol for FreeBSD, although I have a few questions. First, I was wondering if it is possible given a physical address, to copy data to it from a virtual address. Or is a virtual mapping necessary? The other question is how may I map user pages into the kernel? I've looked through vm_map.c, and it seems that support for this is lacking. To get around this for now, I am attempting to use almost exclusively physical address--although am now sure how it will work out. Thanks, Chris Csanady To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 13:36:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05779 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:36:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05762; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:36:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23285; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:36:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd023203; Tue Jun 2 13:36:26 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06082; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:36:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806022036.NAA06082@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:36:22 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@dingo.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806021650.LAA02867@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jun 2, 98 11:50:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Sure; but can't these sort of improvements be made to the methods for > > manipulating procfs nodes? What other drawbacks are there to the FS > > model? > > It is bogus that writing to a file "controls" something inside > the system, that is kind-of what SNMP is for. Now, if someone > wants a kernfs that is compatible with our sysctl, they should > be able to use the sysctl info to build the kernfs. I think the sysctl infrastructure implementation lacks sufficient dynamism. There is no concept of a subschema entry (for example) which would allow for runtime extension rather than linktime agregation (which is a much simpler problem). The non-dynamic portions of the framework, inherited from the 4.4 code base, are also quite problematic. Not that I advocate a kernfs... but a very dynamic procfs could "know" from the accessor what ABI it was being invoked from, if it had the necessary parametric hints (which it currently lacks). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 14:11:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10025 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:11:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10013; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:11:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00370; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806022006.NAA00370@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 11:50:32 CDT." <199806021650.LAA02867@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 13:06:58 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith said: > > > > Sure; but can't these sort of improvements be made to the methods for > > manipulating procfs nodes? What other drawbacks are there to the FS > > model? > > > It is bogus that writing to a file "controls" something inside > the system, that is kind-of what SNMP is for. Now, if someone > wants a kernfs that is compatible with our sysctl, they should > be able to use the sysctl info to build the kernfs. So you don't believe in device files? Or the "everything is a file" model cf. Plan 9? Hmm. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 14:35:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14026 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:35:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13975 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.0/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id XAA04058 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:35:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id WAA06570 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:21:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980602222136.A6541@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:21:36 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: misc/6818: local_startup section of /etc/rc Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199806012110.OAA12752@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.3i In-Reply-To: <199806012110.OAA12752@freefall.freebsd.org>; from Jeff Aitken on Mon, Jun 01, 1998 at 02:10:01PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4311 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ redirected to -hackers ] According to Jeff Aitken: > Is anyone (besides me ;-) interested in this sort of thing? I'd be > happy to work on it, but only if anybody gives a damn. I'm not It is very easy with our current scheme to emulate almost all of the SYSV behaviour (no run levels)... I have the following on my machines : /etc/init.d: total 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 188 Sep 25 1995 README -rwxr-x--- 1 root wheel 359 Mar 7 1996 httpd.sh* -rwxr-x--- 1 root wheel 411 Feb 22 12:47 news.sh* -rwxr-x--- 1 root wheel 314 Feb 22 12:47 ssh.sh* /etc/rc.d: total 0 lrwx------ 1 root wheel 17 Sep 6 1997 90news.sh@ -> ../init.d/news.sh lrwx------ 1 root wheel 16 Sep 6 1997 91ssh.sh@ -> ../init.d/ssh.sh > familiar with what should/shouldn't go into /sbin/init (which is where > this sort of thing would have to go, right?) but I'm certainly willing > to learn. You could make it like HP-SUX (rc.conf instead of rc.config.d) without writing one line of C :-) The only special things about HP-SUX's /etc/rc is that it displays fancy graphics (probably the reason it is a binary and not a script). My /etc/rc.shutdown script also does The Right Thing[tm] for me. -=-=-=- #!/bin/sh # $Id: rc.shutdown,v 1.1 1997/08/02 00:22:45 davidn Exp $ # site-specific closing actions for daemons run by init on shutdown # or before going single-user from multi-user. # Output and errors are directed to console by init, and the # console is the controlling terminal. stty status '^T' # Set shell to ignore SIGINT (2), but not children; # shell catches SIGQUIT (3) and returns to single user after fsck. trap : 2 trap : 3 # shouldn't be needed HOME=/; export HOME PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin export PATH echo -n Shutting down daemon processes: # Insert shutdown procedures here if [ -f /etc/rc.conf ]; then . /etc/rc.conf fi echo '' # for each valid dir in $local_startup, search for init scripts matching # *.sh if [ "X${local_startup}" != X"NO" ]; then echo 'Local package shutdown:' # reverse the directory list for dir in ${local_startup}; do rdir_list="${dir} ${rdir_list}" done for dir in ${rdir_list}; do [ -d ${dir} ] && for script in `/bin/ls -r ${dir}/*.sh`; do [ -x ${script} ] && ${script} stop done done fi echo '.' exit 0 -=-=-=- -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #60: Fri May 15 21:04:22 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 15:11:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21541 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:11:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (freefall.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21492; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:11:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA246; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:09:53 +0200 Message-ID: <35747853.60DFED19@pipeline.ch> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 00:10:27 +0200 From: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Rabson CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Rabson wrote: > > Does anyone know if there is documentation available for the ARC or > AlphaBIOS boot sequence? In particular, what services does the firmware > provide to the bootstrap program (e.g. linload.exe). Alternatively, does > anyone know where I can find the source code to linload.exe? There's a nice documentation of the Alpha PALcode on http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/info/semiconductor/literature/dsc-library.html Or you can directly order the EBSDK and get the source for the PALcode. The SRM Consle doc describes the bootsprapping process of an Alpha system. And so on... -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 15:55:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26951 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:55:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26942 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:55:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18138; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806022254.PAA18138@implode.root.com> To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:58:19 +0900." <26414.896799499@coconut.itojun.org> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:54:48 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Maybe I lost some incoming emails, but is there any plans/whatever > for FreeBSD BOF or whatever, at annual USENIX conference this month? > Who will be visiting there? About half of the core team, I believe. Me, Jordan, Justin, Poul-Henning, just to name a few. Yes, there will be a FreeBSD BoF. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 16:08:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00185 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:08:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00172; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:08:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18235; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806022307.QAA18235@implode.root.com> To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@dingo.cdrom.com (Mike Smith), mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 11:50:32 CDT." <199806021650.LAA02867@dyson.iquest.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 16:07:56 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Mike Smith said: >> >> Sure; but can't these sort of improvements be made to the methods for >> manipulating procfs nodes? What other drawbacks are there to the FS >> model? >> >It is bogus that writing to a file "controls" something inside >the system, that is kind-of what SNMP is for. Now, if someone >wants a kernfs that is compatible with our sysctl, they should >be able to use the sysctl info to build the kernfs. I can see it now: sysctlfs :-) -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 16:11:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00707 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00700 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:11:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18267 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806022311.QAA18267@implode.root.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 10:57:59 PDT." <199806021757.KAA29632@kithrup.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 16:11:06 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I like kernfs; I used to have it installed, but sysctl did end up changing it. >Frankly, I prefer kernfs to sysctl, unlike John -- sysctl is an interface that >just cries out for being in the filesystem. (If you don't believe that, then I guess since people are giving their opinions, I very much prefer sysctl over a "kernfs". I come from the school that thinks that filesystems are for files, not kernel variables. Sorry Dennis. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 16:13:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01004 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:13:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00994 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:13:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id IAA26035; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:42:48 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980603084247.W22406@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:42:47 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Vinum 0.03: correction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry, there were a couple of glitches with the vinum announcement about 12 hours ago: 1. The correct location of the distribution is ftp://ftp.lemis.com/pub/vinum/vinum-0.03.tar.gz. The announcement gave the URL of version 0.02. 2. The Makefile in this version was incorrect. If you have already downloaded version 0.03, you can fix /sys/lkm/vinum/Makefile with this patch: +++ Makefile Wed Jun 3 08:29:20 1998 @@ -11,7 +11,7 @@ CLEANFILES+= vinum.h vnode_if.h vnode_if.c -all: statetexts.h state.h +all: statetexts.h A request to all anonymous FTP users: please specify your correct mail address when logging in. That way, I can contact you directly if there are any problems. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 16:26:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03208 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:26:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bone.nectar.com (bone.nectar.com [204.27.67.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03134; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:26:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@bone.nectar.com) Received: from bone.nectar.com (localhost.communique.net [127.0.0.1]) by bone.nectar.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA07302; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:24:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806022324.SAA07302@bone.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x094724A9 From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <199806020111.SAA02433@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199806020111.SAA02433@dingo.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... To: Mike Smith cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:24:53 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- How about both? Run the filesystems (/procfs, /kernfs, Linux-like /procfs) in userland and let them do their jobs using sysctl and other system calls. At least for emulating a Linux-like /procfs, this seems like a reasonable way to go. Of course, having multiple interfaces to the same functionality does leave me with something of a bad taste ... Jacques Vidrine John Dyson wrote: > > I much prefer sysctl, being a convert from the kernfs camp. Procfs > > is just bogus, not well thought out re-invention (IMO.) It seems that > > the pseudo-MIB scheme of sysctl is nice. On 1 June 1998 at 18:11, Mike Smith wrote: > Personally, I like the basic idea (unified hierarchical namespace, > method-based access, etc), but sysctl (and kernfs') implementation is > unpleasantly inflexible. > > I also agree with Garrett that the filesystem metaphor isn't half bad > when it comes to at least basic access control for parameters, and this > is where either the Linux or NetBSD approaches lead the way. > > I'm also swayed in that we *do* need to follow the Linux lead at least > to the point where we can run their binaries with a reasonable degree > of success, so there's a little pressure on the border. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNXSJxTeRhT8JRySpAQHElQQAyqP5fc30ho++pIceeTm4Z70w1LfrP8l/ /MNhV0igsg/NFhxzx01McM/f2YeybAdMhqq9ELDHuwcqLyTSTjB2r7IzNnCFxVIJ Wa1OqETjmEUALgdTujAhWIV9WlZb6rHVGiStxMIL4xa45bxYDX6KDR62sS3R6v9L 7Qf3uGmTcsk= =X1cw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 16:44:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06659 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06512 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:43:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id JAA27932; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:13:28 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980603091328.A22406@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:13:28 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: dg@root.com, Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? References: <26414.896799499@coconut.itojun.org> <199806022254.PAA18138@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806022254.PAA18138@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 03:54:48PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 June 1998 at 15:54:48 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >> Maybe I lost some incoming emails, but is there any plans/whatever >> for FreeBSD BOF or whatever, at annual USENIX conference this month? >> Who will be visiting there? > > About half of the core team, I believe. Me, Jordan, Justin, Poul-Henning, > just to name a few. Yes, there will be a FreeBSD BoF. Any dates/times? Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 17:05:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10257 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:05:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10233 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:04:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18682; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806030003.RAA18682@implode.root.com> To: Greg Lehey cc: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:13:28 +0930." <19980603091328.A22406@freebie.lemis.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:03:55 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Tue, 2 June 1998 at 15:54:48 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >>> Maybe I lost some incoming emails, but is there any plans/whatever >>> for FreeBSD BOF or whatever, at annual USENIX conference this month? >>> Who will be visiting there? >> >> About half of the core team, I believe. Me, Jordan, Justin, Poul-Henning, >> just to name a few. Yes, there will be a FreeBSD BoF. > >Any dates/times? BoF's are usually (always?) scheduled at the show. There is also the Freenix track going on concurrently with the regular Usenix sessions and Jordan, Poul-Henning, and Justin are all giving presentations. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 17:09:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11166 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:09:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11126 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id JAA29587; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:39:01 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980603093901.D22406@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:39:01 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: dg@root.com Cc: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? References: <19980603091328.A22406@freebie.lemis.com> <199806030003.RAA18682@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806030003.RAA18682@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 05:03:55PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 June 1998 at 17:03:55 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >> On Tue, 2 June 1998 at 15:54:48 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >>>> Maybe I lost some incoming emails, but is there any plans/whatever >>>> for FreeBSD BOF or whatever, at annual USENIX conference this month? >>>> Who will be visiting there? >>> >>> About half of the core team, I believe. Me, Jordan, Justin, Poul-Henning, >>> just to name a few. Yes, there will be a FreeBSD BoF. >> >> Any dates/times? > > BoF's are usually (always?) scheduled at the show. Not always. We did one in Germany two years ago, and we had at least consensus before the show started. It makes sense, too: I will be in Austin TX that week, and if there's a chance for a quick flight to New Orleans for the evening, I might take it, but I'd need to know the evening. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 17:20:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12416 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12406 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:20:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04610; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:20:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:20:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199806030020.RAA04610@kithrup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... References: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 10:57:59 PDT." <199806021757.KAA29632@kithrup.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199806022311.QAA18267.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@implode.root.com> you write: > I guess since people are giving their opinions, I very much prefer sysctl >over a "kernfs". I come from the school that thinks that filesystems are for >files, not kernel variables. Sorry Dennis. So you advocate getting rid of /dev? That was *the* big advantage of unix: everything was a file. This meant it should be in the filesystem. It also meant a uniform [save for ioctl's, which arguably should never have been there, and aren't in Plan 9] interface for files and devices, leading to more generic commands. syctl is a specialized command. If you want to have the kernel's name used as input to a program, you have to do sysctl kern.bootfile | prog or prog `sysctl kern.bootfile` Oh, prog doesn't take any arguments and you can't specify stdin? oops. Well, I guess you could use sysctl kern.bootfile | prog /dev/stdin but, wait, David doesn't want things that aren't files in the filesystem! So no /dev/stdin. Guess you have to do sysctl kern.bootfile > /tmp/out prog /tmp/out (Yes, this is a somewhat contrived example, but not *that* contrived.) 4.4 screwed up in making the sysctl system call, instead of doing it as a filesystem. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 18:32:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25624 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:32:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25432 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:31:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19220 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806030131.SAA19220@implode.root.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:20:16 PDT." <199806030020.RAA04610@kithrup.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:31:06 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >In article <199806022311.QAA18267.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@implode.root.com> you write: >> I guess since people are giving their opinions, I very much prefer sysctl >>over a "kernfs". I come from the school that thinks that filesystems are for >>files, not kernel variables. Sorry Dennis. > >So you advocate getting rid of /dev? ... >but, wait, David doesn't want things that aren't files in the filesystem! So >no /dev/stdin. You are being sarcastic. If you want to discuss this rationally with me, then please leave out the sarcasm, otherwise I will not respond. >That was *the* big advantage of unix: everything was a file. Devices have many of the same characteristics of files and it often makes sense for them to appear in the file hierarchy. Other than having a name, kernel variables usually do not share these qualities. I think /proc is in the grey area inbetween since the access methods for some of the data lend themselves well to read(). Either sysctl or procfs is better than /dev/mem and /dev/kmem as long as some sort of standardized interface is created. I do not think that "everything is a file" is generally a good thing, however. You are welcome to your opinion, but I don't share it. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 19:37:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04184 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:37:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03813 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:35:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00651; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:35:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806030235.VAA00651@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? In-Reply-To: <199806022254.PAA18138@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Jun 2, 98 03:54:48 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:35:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: itojun@itojun.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman said: > > Maybe I lost some incoming emails, but is there any plans/whatever > > for FreeBSD BOF or whatever, at annual USENIX conference this month? > > Who will be visiting there? > > About half of the core team, I believe. Me, Jordan, Justin, Poul-Henning, > just to name a few. Yes, there will be a FreeBSD BoF. > FYI, as usual, I won't be able to go. I have been travelling for work too much for my taste, and need to reserve my travel energy for visits to the Bay area or business partners. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 20:36:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11609 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:36:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11568 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:36:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19842; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806030335.UAA19842@implode.root.com> To: "Chris Csanady" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VM Questions In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 06:43:05 CDT." <199806021143.GAA12205@swing.ca.sandia.gov> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:35:34 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >First, I was wondering if it is possible given a physical address, >to copy data to it from a virtual address. Or is a virtual mapping >necessary? There must be a virtual mapping. >The other question is how may I map user pages into the kernel? I've >looked through vm_map.c, and it seems that support for this is >lacking. To get around this for now, I am attempting to use almost >exclusively physical address--although am now sure how it will work >out. vm_map.c isn't really the right place to look. A better place would be physio/vmapbuf/vunmapbuf in kern_physio.c and vm_machdep.c. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 21:10:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15599 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:10:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (ken@panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15590 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:10:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA20525; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:10:16 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199806030410.WAA20525@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: VM Questions In-Reply-To: <199806030335.UAA19842@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Jun 2, 98 08:35:34 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:10:16 -0600 (MDT) Cc: cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman wrote... > >First, I was wondering if it is possible given a physical address, > >to copy data to it from a virtual address. Or is a virtual mapping > >necessary? > > There must be a virtual mapping. > > >The other question is how may I map user pages into the kernel? I've > >looked through vm_map.c, and it seems that support for this is > >lacking. To get around this for now, I am attempting to use almost > >exclusively physical address--although am now sure how it will work > >out. > > vm_map.c isn't really the right place to look. A better place would be > physio/vmapbuf/vunmapbuf in kern_physio.c and vm_machdep.c. One example of this is in the CAM passthrough driver. The passmapmem() function uses vmapbuf() to map the user data buffer into kernel memory. (the passthrough driver is sys/cam/scsi/scsi_pass.c) Obviously, though, you're limited by MAXPHYS as far as what you can map into kernel memory. If you want to do more than that, you've gotta either use physical addresses, or go through the effort to implement buffer chaining or some other similar mechanism. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 21:30:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18335 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18287; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28437; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199806030430.VAA28437@kithrup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... Newsgroups: kithrup.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199806030131.SAA19220.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@implode.root.com> References: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:20:16 PDT." <199806030020.RAA04610@kithrup.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199806030131.SAA19220.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@implode.root.com> you write: > You are being sarcastic. If you want to discuss this rationally with me, >then please leave out the sarcasm, otherwise I will not respond. No. I was being hyperbolic. There is a difference. You were the one who said "only files in the filesystem." /dev/stdin (aka /dev/fd/0) is not a file. It is not even a device. It is, instead, a file-system interface to a process' structure. Therefore, I have to assume you want it gone. Did you not notice the Reply-To? This does not belong in hackers. It belongs in chat at this point, since it has to do with philosophy, not code. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 21:58:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21422 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21360 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:57:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03238; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:57:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806030457.VAA03238@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Chris Csanady" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VM Questions In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 06:43:05 CDT." <199806021143.GAA12205@swing.ca.sandia.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:57:48 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Take a look at /sys/pci/brooktree848.c thats a video capture driver. The hardware only understands physical memory . Actually, most device drivers which do dma face the same issue that you are stating. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 21:58:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21641 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:58:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rye.cisco.com (rye.cisco.com [171.69.95.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21616 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:58:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from amcrae@cisco.com) Received: (amcrae@localhost) by rye.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.2-SunOS.5.5.1.sun4/8.6.5) id VAA17836; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:58:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew McRae Message-Id: <199806030458.VAA17836@rye.cisco.com> To: grog@lemis.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey): > On Tue, 2 June 1998 at 17:03:55 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >>> On Tue, 2 June 1998 at 15:54:48 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >>>>> Maybe I lost some incoming emails, but is there any plans/whatever >>>>> for FreeBSD BOF or whatever, at annual USENIX conference this month? >>>>> Who will be visiting there? >>>> >>>> About half of the core team, I believe. Me, Jordan, Justin, Poul-Henning, >>>> just to name a few. Yes, there will be a FreeBSD BoF. >>> >>> Any dates/times? >> >> BoF's are usually (always?) scheduled at the show. > > Not always. We did one in Germany two years ago, and we had at least > consensus before the show started. It makes sense, too: I will be in > Austin TX that week, and if there's a chance for a quick flight to New > Orleans for the evening, I might take it, but I'd need to know the > evening. > > Greg > -- At AUUG 98 we will be having a Free Unix stream, so if any of you are coming Down Under in September, you are welcome to come along. http://www.auug.org.au Cheers, Andrew McRae To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 22:21:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA24615 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:21:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ascetic.portal.ca (ascetic.portal.ca [206.87.139.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA24605 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by ascetic.portal.ca (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA17443; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:20:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ascetic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:20:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Curt Sampson To: Doug Rabson cc: Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Doug Rabson wrote: > Which parts of the PALcode in the Linux source are incompatible? I don't know the exact details, but I have been assured by someone who should know that DU never ran on the development kit PALcode, and one of our developers has tested NetBSD on the DK PALcode and confirmed that it does not work. > I don't think I will have any real problem using this code for FreeBSD. Well, good luck! I'll be interested to what you need to do, if anything, to clean it up. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 22:28:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25604 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:28:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25584; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:28:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03400; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:28:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806030528.WAA03400@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Randall Hopper cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Jun 1998 19:41:16 EDT." <19980601194116.A25497@ct.picker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 22:28:08 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I really like the patch ! If anyone is interested in getting one it costs $29.95: http://www.x10.com/products/x10_mk19a_3.htm I bought mine a few months ago at Fry's Electronic Store in Sunnyvale, however I paid nearly double than the current price. Tnks! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 2 22:29:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25757 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:29:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay1.bcs.zp.ua (bcs-ts33.zcn.net [195.123.8.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25619 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:28:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from serg@bcs.zp.ua) Received: from bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (bcs3.bcs.zp.ua [195.123.10.73]) by relay1.bcs.zp.ua (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11753 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:27:26 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from serg@localhost) by bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25414 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:27:29 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from serg) From: Sergey Shkonda Message-Id: <199806030527.IAA25414@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: kernel bug To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:27:28 +0300 (EEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have BIG problem with xmcd 2.3 player: Disk i/o stopped when I press 'play' button. I think, It's wdc, wcd or atapi bug. Can anybody help me to correct this problem ? >FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE #1: Tue May 5 22:09:45 EEST 1998 root@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua:/var/scratch/src/sys/compile/BCS CPU: AMD-K6tm w/ multimedia extensions (166.45-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x562 Stepping=2 Features=0x8001bf real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) avail memory = 30859264 (30136K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 1 on pci0:0:0 chip1 rev 1 on pci0:7:0 chip2 rev 1 on pci0:7:1 chip3 rev 1 int d irq 11 on pci0:7:2 chip4 rev 1 on pci0:7:3 ed0 rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:9:0 ed0: address 00:4f:49:02:eb:17, type NE2000 (16 bit) vga0 rev 22 int a irq 9 on pci0:10:0 ed1 rev 10 int a irq 12 on pci0:11:0 ed1: address 00:80:48:fd:eb:a0, type NE2000 (16 bit) ed2 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:12:0 ed2: address 00:40:95:00:52:f0, type NE2000 (16 bit) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 flags 0x2 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <13 virtual consoles, flags=0x2> lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd0: 814MB (1667232 sectors), 1654 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, intr, dma, iordy wcd0: 343/3445KB/sec, 382KB cache, audio play, 255 volume levels, ejectable tray wcd0: 120mm audio disc loaded, unlocked wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd2: 2014MB (4124736 sectors), 4092 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in fd1: 1.2MB 5.25in npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface -- Sergey Shkonda (serg@bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 02:55:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA11389 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:55:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA11383 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:55:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hans@news.IAEhv.nl) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.8.8/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 22443 on Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:55:25 GMT; id JAA22443 efrom: hans; eto: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Received: by truk.brandinnovators.com (8.8.7/BI96070101) for id LAA05038; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:46:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199806030946.LAA05038@truk.brandinnovators.com> From: hans@brandinnovators.com (Hans Zuidam) Subject: trpt question To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:46:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Is there any deep reason why trpt(8) prints (nearly) everything in hex while tcpdump(1) prints decimal numbers? Hans -- H. Zuidam E-Mail: hans@brandinnovators.com Brand Innovators B.V. P-Mail: P.O. Box 1377 de Pinckart 54 5602 BJ Eindhoven, The Netherlands 5674 CC Nuenen Tel. +31 40 2631134, Fax. +31 40 2831138 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 04:45:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26525 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:45:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA26518 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:45:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA11408; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:20:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199806031120.HAA11408@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806022311.QAA18267@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Jun 2, 98 04:11:06 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >I like kernfs; I used to have it installed, but sysctl did end up changing it. > >Frankly, I prefer kernfs to sysctl, unlike John -- sysctl is an interface that > >just cries out for being in the filesystem. (If you don't believe that, then > > I guess since people are giving their opinions, I very much prefer sysctl > over a "kernfs". I come from the school that thinks that filesystems are for > files, not kernel variables. Sorry Dennis. While we're giving opinions: I disagree and think the general interface to a hierarchical namespace such as sysctl should be via file system. The details are another issue - one variable per file is a bit much, maybe at the bottom of the hierarchy it should be a single file. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 04:48:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26883 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:48:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coyote.instrumatic.ch (coyote.instrumatic.ch [195.226.4.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA26865 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:48:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ast@marabu.ch) Received: (from root@localhost) by coyote.instrumatic.ch (8.8.7/8.8.7/ast-971024) with UUCP id NAA14569 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:48:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by hawk.marabu.ch (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id NAA26792 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:42:04 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from ast@marabu.ch) Received: by marabu.marabu.ch (8.7.5/970531-ast-7.9) id NAA01053; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:39:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199806031139.NAA01053@marabu.marabu.ch> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 2.0b6) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Adrian Steinmann Date: Wed, 3 Jun 98 13:39:32 +0200 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: submission: additional routines in /etc/rc.firewall to make it failsafe X-Organization: Steinmann Consulting, Apollostrasse 21, 8032 Zurich X-Phone-Numbers: Switzerland, Tel +41 1 380 30 83 Fax +41 1 380 30 85 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have been using this additional code in /etc/rc.firewall with good results: if, by chance, you run sh /etc/rc.firewall on a pty via the network, you will albeit lose your session but the script will finish completely and (unless you made changes which are faulty) you will be able to log back in agains (because it ignores the HUP signal). It also takes down and brings up all interfaces, making any ongoing connections cut cleaner (and usually continue) than when the rules are loaded while the interfaces are up. The real paranoid might also argue this way there is no window where the interfaces are up and the FW rules are incomplete... Could we put this into the distributed /etc/rc.firewall? Adrian _________________________________________________________________________ Dr. Adrian Steinmann Steinmann Consulting Apollostrasse 21 8032 Zurich Tel +41 1 380 30 83 Fax +41 1 380 30 85 Mailto:ast@marabu.ch ... PATH=/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin export PATH ... # routine to set interfaces down and up interfaces () { case "x$1" in xup|xdown) ifconfig -a | sed -n -e '/BROADCAST,/ s/:.*//p' | \ while read i; do ifconfig $i $1; done ;; *) echo "USAGE: interfaces [up|down]" >&2 ;; esac } ############ # START trap '' 1 interfaces down ... all the ipfw rules ... ############ # DONE interfaces up To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 07:02:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA15538 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:02:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA15505 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ernie!bert.kts.org!hm@ppp.net) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0yhE77-002Zk6C; Wed, 3 Jun 98 16:02 MET DST Received: from bert.kts.org(really [194.55.156.2]) by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with smtp id for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:40:56 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #3 built 1998-Feb-14) Received: by bert.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:36:42 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-Jul-4) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? In-Reply-To: <19980603093901.D22406@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jun 3, 98 09:39:01 am" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:36:42 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > BoF's are usually (always?) scheduled at the show. > > Not always. We did one in Germany two years ago, Which one was it ? hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe A duck is like a bicycle because they both have two wheels except the duck (terry@cs.weber.edu) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 08:36:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02253 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com (gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com [151.145.250.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA02029; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com) Received: by gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com; id KAA27771; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:34:00 -0500 Received: from stlabcexg003.anheuser-busch.com( 151.145.101.158) by gatewayb via smap (V2.1) id xma027648; Wed, 3 Jun 98 10:33:53 -0500 Received: by stlabcexg003.anheuser-busch.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:32:24 -0500 Message-ID: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF9017765D7@STLABCEXG011> From: "Alton, Matthew" To: "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG'" Cc: "Smallie, Scott" Subject: Filesystem Development Toolkit Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:33:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hackers, My recent excursions into the wonderful world of filesystem development have led me to embark on the following Mondo Project which is currently in the lex-spec + stubs phase. The project spec follows. Well, it started out as one anyway, but turned into a sort of polemic rant. I wrote it in the throes of trad- itional development :-) Please help me come up with good ideas. Yes, I'm going to copyleft the software. I just can't stand the thought of Bill's henchmen holding my slightly modified code hostage in their nasty ten- tacles. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ $Id: SPEC,v 1.3 1998/06/03 00:09:30 matta Exp matta $ Filesystem Development Toolkit ============================== The Filesystem Development Toolkit (FDT) is software designed to ease the task of implementing, testing, and debugging filesystem designs. Traditional filesystem development is unduly complex. The procedure involves: 1) Design phase - The fundamental structure and properties of the filesystem are defined; 2) Coding - The filesystem code and operating system kernel interface code are written; 3) Testing - The filesystem modules are loaded into system space and run with superuser privileges; 4) Debugging - Problems detected in the testing phase are traced to root causes in the coding and/or design phases and are remedied. This procedure is fraught with alleviable difficulties. The coding phase nec- essarily involves a detailed knowledge of the inner workings of a specific oper- ating system. Such knowledge is often irrelevant to the purpose of the develop- ment effort. The filesystem interface particulars vary radically between oper- ating systems so that the code must be altered substantially for each new de- velopment platform. Testing new filesystem code invariably involves destabil- izing the operating system running on the test platform so that a machine must be dedicated to testing. The debugging phase is egregiously difficult as oper- ating system debugging is inherently more difficult than application debugging. Each cycle of the process may necessitate a reinstallation of the operating system due to media corruption caused by buggy filesystem code. A non-root user is not able to test a new filesystem design at all. Many of these problems are rendered geometrically more difficult when the filesystem in question is of the distributed variety and requires multiple network nodes for testing pur- poses. All of these difficulties may be relieved to various degrees by simply moving the development cycle entirely into user space. The difficulty involved in developing a new filesystem would then be on the order of that involved in app- lication development. The problem of "porting" the new filesystem to another operating system, while still difficult, would at least be distinct from the development cycle. The FDT provides a simulation environment for developing filesystems in user space by effectively "stepping down" the levels of the operating system. The filesystem under development actually exists as a regular file which the FDT manipulates. This regular file is in effect a "disk image" containing a bit- for-bit likeness of an instance of the filesystem under development. The FDT provides the layer of abstraction necessary to create filesystem objects in the disk image. Concurrent access may be controlled through file permissions and ... ... ... sfc - Simulation Fileystem Control program. Command-line interface for use in filesystem prototyping. Commands: ![cmd [args ...] ] - Shell command. Execute cmd in a subshell. mkpf < -s size pf_name > - Make prototype file. Create a zero-filled file named `pf_name' of `size' bytes analogous to a mass storage device. mkfs < pf_name > - Make file system. Create a bit-pattern analogous to a filesystem on the prototype file named `pf_name'. mount_lfs < pf_name > - Mount file system. Reset `pf_name' clean bit and enable read and write operations on `pf_name'. Analogous to mounting filesystem named `pf_name' on mount point `pf_name'. fsck < pf_name > - File system check. Check and optionally attempt to correct inconsistencies in bit-pattern on file `pf_name'. df [ pf_name [ pf_name ... ] ] - Summarize disk free space. Display summary of free space per prototype file argument. du [ pf_name [ pf_name ... ] ] - Summarize disk usage. Display summary of space usage per prototype file. cp < source dest > - Copy filesystem object from source to dest. `source' and `dest' may be files or bit-patterns within a prototype file. mv < source dest > - Move filesystem object from source to dest. `source' and `dest' may be files or bit-patterns within a prototype file. mknod < node b|c|u major minor > - Make device special file. Make ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Matthew Alton Computer Services - UNIX Systems Administration (314)632-6644 matthew.alton@anheuser-busch.com alton@plantnet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 10:08:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17454 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:08:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17442 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:08:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA26032; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:08:50 GMT Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:08:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Sergey Shkonda cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel bug In-Reply-To: <199806030527.IAA25414@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG there is no atapi watchdog code, meaning if the atapi driver wedges you are kinda out of luck. in my clueless search for something to do i've been looking at this and comparing it to linux code for atapi handling, but um, i kinda stink at this. someone said they'd fix it sooner or later. from what i see the problem is that if anything tries to reset an atapi device all it does is call the bus_wait command on the bus or something, not very effective. and there is no timer or anything to make sure atapi requests are working or not. -Alfred On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Sergey Shkonda wrote: > I have BIG problem with xmcd 2.3 player: > Disk i/o stopped when I press 'play' button. > > I think, It's wdc, wcd or atapi bug. > Can anybody help me to correct this problem ? > > > >FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE #1: Tue May 5 22:09:45 EEST 1998 > root@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua:/var/scratch/src/sys/compile/BCS > CPU: AMD-K6tm w/ multimedia extensions (166.45-MHz 586-class CPU) > Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x562 Stepping=2 > Features=0x8001bf > real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) > avail memory = 30859264 (30136K bytes) > Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > chip0 rev 1 on pci0:0:0 > chip1 rev 1 on pci0:7:0 > chip2 rev 1 on pci0:7:1 > chip3 rev 1 int d irq 11 on pci0:7:2 > chip4 rev 1 on pci0:7:3 > ed0 rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:9:0 > ed0: address 00:4f:49:02:eb:17, type NE2000 (16 bit) > vga0 rev 22 int a irq 9 on pci0:10:0 > ed1 rev 10 int a irq 12 on pci0:11:0 > ed1: address 00:80:48:fd:eb:a0, type NE2000 (16 bit) > ed2 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:12:0 > ed2: address 00:40:95:00:52:f0, type NE2000 (16 bit) > Probing for devices on the ISA bus: > sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 flags 0x2 on motherboard > sc0: VGA color <13 virtual consoles, flags=0x2> > lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa > lpt0: Interrupt-driven port > lp0: TCP/IP capable interface > sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa > sio0: type 16550A > sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa > sio1: type 16550A > wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa > wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 > wd0: 814MB (1667232 sectors), 1654 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, intr, dma, iordy > wcd0: 343/3445KB/sec, 382KB cache, audio play, 255 volume levels, ejectable tray > wcd0: 120mm audio disc loaded, unlocked > wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa > wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 > wd2: 2014MB (4124736 sectors), 4092 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa > fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold > fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in > fd1: 1.2MB 5.25in > npx0 on motherboard > npx0: INT 16 interface > > -- > Sergey Shkonda (serg@bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 10:19:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19563 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:19:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gate.lustig.com (gate.lustig.com [205.246.2.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA19460 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from barry@lustig.com) Received: (qmail 18427 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1998 17:18:41 -0000 Received: from devious.lustig.com (205.246.2.244) by gate.lustig.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 1998 17:18:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 17141 invoked by uid 21); 3 Jun 1998 17:20:00 -0000 Message-ID: <19980603171959.17140.qmail@devious.lustig.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.2mach (Enhance 2.1) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148.RR) From: Barry Lustig Date: Wed, 3 Jun 98 13:19:58 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG Reply-To: barry@lustig.com X-Organizations: Barry Lustig & Associates, Inc. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does it make sense to have portmap fail when svc_run returns or would it make more sense to try and recover and restart the loop? I've had portmap abort a few times now, and the only easy remedy is a reboot of the machine. If I try and restart portmap, I have to find all of the programs that registered with it and restart them. Any suggestions? By the way, this is from RELENG_2_2 cvsupped yesterday. Thanks, barry This is from portmap.c: /* additional initializations */ check_startup(); (void)signal(SIGCHLD, reap); svc_run(); syslog(LOG_ERR, "svc_run returned unexpectedly"); abort(); This is from svc_run.c in libc: void svc_run() { #ifdef FD_SETSIZE fd_set readfds; #else int readfds; #endif /* def FD_SETSIZE */ for (;;) { #ifdef FD_SETSIZE readfds = svc_fdset; #else readfds = svc_fds; #endif /* def FD_SETSIZE */ switch (select(_rpc_dtablesize(), &readfds, NULL, NULL, (struct timeval *)0)) { case -1: if (errno == EINTR) { continue; } perror("svc_run: - select failed"); return; case 0: continue; default: svc_getreqset(&readfds); } } } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 12:18:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09514 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09409; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:18:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00651; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:18:48 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:18:48 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: IBS / Andre Oppermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <35747853.60DFED19@pipeline.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, IBS / Andre Oppermann wrote: > Doug Rabson wrote: > > > > Does anyone know if there is documentation available for the ARC or > > AlphaBIOS boot sequence? In particular, what services does the firmware > > provide to the bootstrap program (e.g. linload.exe). Alternatively, does > > anyone know where I can find the source code to linload.exe? > > There's a nice documentation of the Alpha PALcode on > http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/info/semiconductor/literature/dsc-library.html > > Or you can directly order the EBSDK and get the source for the PALcode. > > The SRM Consle doc describes the bootsprapping process of an Alpha > system. > > And so on... I have read most of these documents and I understand the SRM console's bootstrap process fairly well. What I need to understand is the AlphaBIOS bootstrap process which is far less well documented. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 12:37:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13105 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12854 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:37:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01016; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:35:55 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:35:55 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Curt Sampson cc: Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Curt Sampson wrote: > On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Doug Rabson wrote: > > > Which parts of the PALcode in the Linux source are incompatible? > > I don't know the exact details, but I have been assured by someone > who should know that DU never ran on the development kit PALcode, > and one of our developers has tested NetBSD on the DK PALcode and > confirmed that it does not work. > > > I don't think I will have any real problem using this code for FreeBSD. > > Well, good luck! I'll be interested to what you need to do, if > anything, to clean it up. Well at least one problem I noticed during a code review of the eb164 palcode in milo is that the interrupt support is pretty thin. It always supplies a vector number of 800 to the OS, whatever the real interrupt source and it doesn't support the undocumented cserve functions 0x34 and 0x35 which NetBSD and DU use to enable and disable interrupts. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 12:53:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17057 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:53:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateman.zeus.leitch.com (gateman.zeus.leitch.com [204.187.61.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17010 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:53:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from woods@tap.zeus.leitch.com) Received: from zeus.leitch.com (tap.zeus.leitch.com [204.187.61.10]) by gateman.zeus.leitch.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/1.0) with ESMTP id PAA08505; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brain.zeus.leitch.com (brain.zeus.leitch.com [204.187.61.32]) by zeus.leitch.com (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.0) with ESMTP id PAA25109; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from woods@localhost) by brain.zeus.leitch.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19479; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:52:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from woods@tap.zeus.leitch.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806031952.PAA19479@brain.zeus.leitch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: woods@zeus.leitch.com (Greg A. Woods) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@NetBSD.org, port-i386@NetBSD.org Subject: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78) X-Mailer: VM 6.45 under Emacs 20.2.1 Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@NetBSD.org, port-i386@NetBSD.org, woods@zeus.leitch.com (Greg A. Woods) Organization: Planix, Inc.; Toronto, Ontario; Canada Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [[ Please feel free to trim out any cross posting as appropriate, but please do include in any replies. ]] I'm about to embark on adding kernel support for hardware monitoring. In particular I'm interested in supporting the National Semiconductor LM78 system hardware monitor that's available on motherboards such as the ASUS P2L97 and some models of the FIC PA-2012, etc. It would appear that there are at least three or four ways to approach the introduction of such functionality in the system, and perhaps various combinations or permutations of these ways. First off I should state some overall goals. Of primary concern is an ability to generate management alarms (eg. through SNMP) for reporting exceptions to various limits and interrupts the chip can detect. Also necessary is the ability to do trend analysis -- i.e. periodic data gathering of data values from the chip by a logging agent. Since at least the LM78 chip requires some programming to set limits, it's also necessary to be able to this programming from user land. It may also be possible to use at least some of these hardware monitor subsystems to record log messages (some of the newer ones have some NVRAM, and even the LM78 has 32 bytes of P.O.S.T. RAM that may survive a simple reboot). The four primary ways of providing an interface to the hardware monitor chip that I can think of would be: 1. minimal character device with ioctl() interface. 2. full fledged character device with communications protocol. 3. sysctl interface. 4. virtual filesystem interface. Asynchronous alarm outputs could be done either through the character device interface or a virtual file (with a monitoring daemon process), and/or through the normal kernel syslog mechanisms. My preference is to implement this as a virtual filesystem, however in structure it would be extremely similar to a sysctl interface, and since I've never really liked sysctl in the first place I'm thinking of combining these two ideas and simply adding a full sysctl interface to kernfs, complete with additional support for what could hopefully be a fairly generic hardware monitor "MIB". Ideally there should be one or more auto-configured device drivers that detect and supports the various chips, with a higher level API for the virtual fileystem to call upon. I don't know that I'll get too far into desiging this just yet -- I'll probably do the device detection and config at mount time in the virtual filesystem for now. The reason I'm inviting comment is that I'd really like to be able to submit this code once it's done and let the maintenance be taken over because I doubt I'll be able to maintain it for more than one or two motherboards in the future. I'm also interested to learn if anyone else is working on similar things. I've been able to find a couple of lm78 drivers in linux land, and we've got a small program that when given inb()/out() access can read values from the lm78. One of the linux drivers has sysctl and kernfs support already and I'll probably use it as a starting point. However I've seen no mention to date of these things in the *BSD circles. This work will be done initially for FreeBSD (RELENG_2_2 only, since that's what we're using), and then soon after (or perhaps simultaneously) for NetBSD/i386 (with the kernfs/sysctl integration for all NetBSD variants, of course, and tested on at least sun3, sparc, pmax, and hopefully alpha). Since my next server will likely be Alpha based I'll probably look for a motherboard with something like the lm78 on-board, and so will also add NetBSD/alpha support at that time. [[ Please feel free to trim out any cross posting as appropriate, but please do include in any replies. ]] -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 13:22:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23629 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:22:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (freefall.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23559; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA306; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:20:49 +0200 Message-ID: <3575B047.CA3A1D46@pipeline.ch> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 22:21:27 +0200 From: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Rabson CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Rabson wrote: -snip- > I have read most of these documents and I understand the SRM console's > bootstrap process fairly well. What I need to understand is the AlphaBIOS > bootstrap process which is far less well documented. Alpha has no BIOS in the 'Intel/PC' sense. What you need is the SROM, it contains the power-up and initial bootstrap code. There's a complete SKD avail. with SROM Mini-Debugger and all the stuff you need: http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/info/semiconductor/literature/mbsdkpb.pdf -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 13:34:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26072 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:34:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mauswerks.net (root@ns.mauswerks.com [204.152.96.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25986 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:33:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from feral.com (mjacob@gw100.feral.com [192.67.166.129]) by ns.mauswerks.net (8.8.0/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA23808; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:35:06 -0700 Received: (from mjacob@localhost) by feral.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id NAA09009; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:33:27 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:33:27 -0700 From: Matthew Jacob Message-Id: <199806032033.NAA09009@feral.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, port-i386@NetBSD.ORG, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG, woods@zeus.leitch.com Subject: Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have on my middle burner a environmental services driver to port into both NetBSD and FreeBSD (and possibly linux). It will manage both SES (SCSI Environmental Services) and SAF-TE (see http://www.safte.org). One of the things that has blocked me from just doing it (the driver's been done under solaris for quite some time- I just have to really port it- it's a pretty trivail driver) is I'm not sure what context to report environmental info in- I *know* that it will go to SNMP mib at some point, but I'm sure there are intermediate states that are worthwhile. I was assuming only a character interface that would retrieve SES-like objects (they are quite a number of them- enough to possibly manage most of even a bacplane monitor). I had also been puzzling about how to integrate I2C bus support with this since a number of systems (e.g., the alpha 41000) have I2C support for internal temperature sensors. It sounds like you're doing something related. Is it possible that we could integrate these various sources of environmental (which include both the notion of alarms to be read and reset as well as LEDs to blink, and so on- see under http://www.symbios.com/x3t10 for the final draft SES specification) into one common format so the applications won't have to untangle this? -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 14:00:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01144 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:00:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fezzik.endicor.com (root@fezzik.endicor.com [198.17.18.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01024 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:00:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tsarna@endicor.com) Received: by fezzik.endicor.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA02826; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:59:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:59:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Ty Sarna Message-Id: <199806032059.PAA02826@fezzik.endicor.com> To: woods@zeus.leitch.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Newsgroups: netbsd.tech.kern Subject: Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78) References: <199806031952.PAA19479@brain.zeus.leitch.com> Organization: Endicor Technologies, Inc., San Antonio, Texas Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199806031952.PAA19479@brain.zeus.leitch.com>, Greg A. Woods wrote: > [[ Please feel free to trim out any cross posting as appropriate, but > please do include in any replies. ]] I trimmed port-i386... tech-kern seems most appropriate. > I'm about to embark on adding kernel support for hardware monitoring. Hooray! I thought about doing this, since the LM78 seems reasonably simple, but got bogged down in the issues you raise below. > My preference is to implement this as a virtual filesystem, however in > structure it would be extremely similar to a sysctl interface, and since > I've never really liked sysctl in the first place I'm thinking of > combining these two ideas and simply adding a full sysctl interface to > kernfs, complete with additional support for what could hopefully be a > fairly generic hardware monitor "MIB". This is the problem with sysctl: it really wants to be a filesystem, IMO, but there is sufficient political opposition I don't think it'll happen. In more detail: sysctl really wants to deal with named rather than numbered things, and wants to do that with more dynamicism than the current sysctl offers. We already have a resonably good system for managing a hierarchichal, named system of things, which can change at run time (namely, files). I don't see why it wouldn't be in the best UN*X traditions to use that existing subsystem for sysctls. But the wrong people do :-( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 14:18:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04887 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:18:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateman.zeus.leitch.com (gateman.zeus.leitch.com [204.187.61.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04647 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:17:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from woods@tap.zeus.leitch.com) Received: from zeus.leitch.com (tap.zeus.leitch.com [204.187.61.10]) by gateman.zeus.leitch.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/1.0) with ESMTP id RAA08964; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brain.zeus.leitch.com (brain.zeus.leitch.com [204.187.61.32]) by zeus.leitch.com (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.0) with ESMTP id RAA25489; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from woods@localhost) by brain.zeus.leitch.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19994; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:16:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from woods@tap.zeus.leitch.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806032116.RAA19994@brain.zeus.leitch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: woods@zeus.leitch.com (Greg A. Woods) To: Ty Sarna Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78) Newsgroups: netbsd.tech.kern In-Reply-To: Ty Sarna's message of "Wed, June 3, 1998 15:59:49 -0500" regarding "Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78)" id <199806032059.PAA02826@fezzik.endicor.com> References: <199806031952.PAA19479@brain.zeus.leitch.com> <199806032059.PAA02826@fezzik.endicor.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.45 under Emacs 20.2.1 Reply-To: woods@zeus.leitch.com (Greg A. Woods) Organization: Planix, Inc.; Toronto, Ontario; Canada Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ On Wed, June 3, 1998 at 15:59:49 (-0500), Ty Sarna wrote: ] > Subject: Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78) > > This is the problem with sysctl: it really wants to be a filesystem, > IMO, but there is sufficient political opposition I don't think it'll > happen. > > In more detail: sysctl really wants to deal with named rather than > numbered things, and wants to do that with more dynamicism than the > current sysctl offers. We already have a resonably good system for > managing a hierarchichal, named system of things, which can change at > run time (namely, files). I don't see why it wouldn't be in the best > UN*X traditions to use that existing subsystem for sysctls. But the > wrong people do :-( I agree 101% with your analysis. Well, let's put it this way: If nobody comes up with something entirely different and better and provided I don't run into any snags that'll eat up my allocated project time, I'm going to do both because *I* want to use a kernfs interface, but I'll do at least the kernel side of a sysctl extension just to keep those that don't like kernfs happy and I do want to get the result into the common code base of all the *BSDs so that someone else can support all the other weird and wonderful motherboards and chips available now and in the future (because I won't likely do so, at least not as a volunteer project). -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 14:45:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09956 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:45:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from soleil.uvsq.fr (soleil.uvsq.fr [193.51.24.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09626 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from son@cezanne.prism.uvsq.fr) Received: from cezanne.prism.uvsq.fr (rtc104.reseau.uvsq.fr [193.51.24.20]) by soleil.uvsq.fr (8.8.8/jtpda-5.3) with ESMTP id XAA11557 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:40:01 +0200 (METDST) Received: (from son@localhost) by cezanne.prism.uvsq.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA00604; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:44:33 GMT Message-ID: <19980603224432.46767@breizh.prism.uvsq.fr> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:44:32 +0000 From: Nicolas Souchu To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Marc Bouget Subject: tftp in bootp process Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e X-Operating-System: FreeBSD breizh 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there, Is the tftpboot/cfg.X.X.X file very usefull in the bootp process? /etc/bootptab already contains rootfs, swapfs, IP address and so on... A identification/security issue? -- Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr FreeBSD - Turning PCs into workstations - http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 14:47:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10091 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:47:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from soleil.uvsq.fr (soleil.uvsq.fr [193.51.24.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09856 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:44:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from son@cezanne.prism.uvsq.fr) Received: from cezanne.prism.uvsq.fr (rtc103.reseau.uvsq.fr [193.51.24.19]) by soleil.uvsq.fr (8.8.8/jtpda-5.3) with ESMTP id XAA11787 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:44:25 +0200 (METDST) Received: (from son@localhost) by cezanne.prism.uvsq.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA00621; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:48:03 GMT Message-ID: <19980603224748.33844@breizh.prism.uvsq.fr> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:47:48 +0000 From: Nicolas Souchu To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Marc Bouget Subject: tftp in bootp process Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e X-Operating-System: FreeBSD breizh 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there, Is /tftpboot/cfg.X.X.X file really usefull in the bootp process? /etc/bootptab already contains rootfs, swapfs and so on... A identification/security issue? -- Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr FreeBSD - Turning PCs into workstations - http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 15:04:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13344 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:04:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA13322 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:04:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00138 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:36:01 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id XAA01592 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:40:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199806032140.XAA01592@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: ISDN/Bitsurfr Pro to Livingston Portmaster with HDLC To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:40:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there, Got a new ISP that either uses V.120 or HDLC for ISDN dialin on their Livingston Portmasters. Sofar I've only got V.120 to work with my Motorola Bitsurfr Pro TA, with both pppd and ijppp. When I set the BS to HDLC both ijppp and pppd refuse to work, although a HDLC connection is successfully established (the BS tells me it connected OK) the initial ppp negotiation breaks. Has anybody gotten this to work? I do have some ijppp logs available for inspection by an expert eye. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 15:19:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15431 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15380; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:19:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01357; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:19:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:19:29 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: IBS / Andre Oppermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <3575B047.CA3A1D46@pipeline.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, IBS / Andre Oppermann wrote: > Doug Rabson wrote: > -snip- > > I have read most of these documents and I understand the SRM console's > > bootstrap process fairly well. What I need to understand is the AlphaBIOS > > bootstrap process which is far less well documented. > > Alpha has no BIOS in the 'Intel/PC' sense. What you need is the SROM, > it contains the power-up and initial bootstrap code. > > There's a complete SKD avail. with SROM Mini-Debugger and all the stuff > you need: > http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/info/semiconductor/literature/mbsdkpb.pdf There is a piece of console firmware for alpha systems called AlphaBIOS. This software has an easy to understand gui interface and is designed to boot WinNT. It is compatable at the bootstrap level with the ARC firmware for older WinNT/alpha boxes. This is different from the SRM firmware which is used to boot DU and NetBSD. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 15:39:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18016 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:39:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17987 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:39:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01436; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806032134.OAA01436@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Matthew Jacob cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, port-i386@NetBSD.ORG, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG, woods@zeus.leitch.com Subject: Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Jun 1998 13:33:27 PDT." <199806032033.NAA09009@feral.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 14:34:29 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have on my middle burner a environmental services driver to port > into both NetBSD and FreeBSD (and possibly linux). It will manage > both SES (SCSI Environmental Services) and SAF-TE (see http://www.safte.org). Environmental and power control issues are becoming big business it seems. Starting at the top with DMI (www.dmtf.org) and going down, there's a large model forming. Do you plan to work within this, or do you have an alternative framework in mind? > One of the things that has blocked me from just doing it (the driver's > been done under solaris for quite some time- I just have to really port > it- it's a pretty trivail driver) is I'm not sure what context to report > environmental info in- I *know* that it will go to SNMP mib at some point, > but I'm sure there are intermediate states that are worthwhile. I was > assuming only a character interface that would retrieve SES-like objects > (they are quite a number of them- enough to possibly manage most of even > a bacplane monitor). I had also been puzzling about how to integrate I2C > bus support with this since a number of systems (e.g., the alpha 41000) > have I2C support for internal temperature sensors. The I2C thing has been somewhat of an issue for me - many PC motherboards (eg. everything with a PII onboard) have an I2C variant (SMB). Unfortunately, the SMB BIOS doesn't seem to be widely implemented, so there's no precedent for a set of primitive bus services there (only the SMB I/O in the PIIX4). For your parametric retrieval, depending on the messaging style you might want to consider: - DEVFS node (not really portable outside FreeBSD AFAIK). - sysctl node (may be problematic if you want to dynamically create nodes at runtime, unless you handle your own traversal). - socket, cf. PF_ROUTE. This would involve creating a new event reporting facility (PF_EVENT) and assorted infrastructure. It sounds like you're looking at two of a set of environmental services (others eg. S.M.A.R.T.) which should be coordinated within a unified framework. DMI offers this, although at the cost of some (!) extra complexity. I'd be very interested to hear others' opinions on the relevance of DMI and the work of the DMTF. Note especially the advanced state of DMI : SNMP mapping techniques they recommend, if you are concerned about SNMP interoperability. > It sounds like you're doing something related. Is it possible that we > could integrate these various sources of environmental (which include > both the notion of alarms to be read and reset as well as LEDs to blink, > and so on- see under http://www.symbios.com/x3t10 for the final draft > SES specification) into one common format so the applications won't have > to untangle this? "yes". 8) I would think that would be more than worthwhile. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 16:07:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22959 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:07:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iconmail.bellatlantic.net (iconmail.bellatlantic.net [199.173.162.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22928 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:07:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmm125@bellatlantic.net) Received: from myname.my.domain (client201-122-92.bellatlantic.net [151.201.122.92]) by iconmail.bellatlantic.net (IConNet Sendmail) with SMTP id TAA28460; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:03:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Donn Miller X-Sender: dmm125@myname.my.domain To: James Raynard cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling sources with "-O2 -m486 -pipe" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, James Raynard wrote: > > I compile everything with -O2 -pipe all the time :-) (-m486 is > counter-productive on a Pentium or above). There was a problem > at one time with -O2 generating bad kernels, but that was fixed a good > couple of years ago. > About the -m486 option -- I use -m486 -O3 -pipe all the time; does it slow down the execution somewhat? I noticed the Mozilla sources defined -mno-486. Do you know if compiling with -mno-486 gives better results than -m486 as far as speed, etc.? I figured that -m486 generated 486 instructions, which would make a pentium run faster. --Donn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 16:16:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25120 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:16:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oznet11.ozemail.com.au (oznet11.ozemail.com.au [203.2.192.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24676 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:15:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe.shevland@horizonti.com) Received: from horizonti.com ([203.33.128.245]) by oznet11.ozemail.com.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA04513 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:15:10 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <3575D8CA.865C81C4@horizonti.com> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:14:18 +1000 From: Joe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: UART's Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I wasn't sure if this was a newbie question to be directed at hackers or vice-versa, so here it is. I'm interested in writing a device driver for a 16550 UART serial port (I hope that's right). Is there a few good source code files to gain an understanding of this in the kernel source? TIA, Joe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 16:52:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03353 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:52:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from swing.ca.sandia.gov (swing.ca.sandia.gov [146.246.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03119 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:52:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov) Received: from swing.ca.sandia.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by swing.ca.sandia.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08485; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:52:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov) Message-Id: <199806031652.LAA08485@swing.ca.sandia.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dg@root.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VM Questions In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:35:34 PDT." <199806030335.UAA19842@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 11:52:37 -0500 From: "Chris Csanady" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>First, I was wondering if it is possible given a physical address, >>to copy data to it from a virtual address. Or is a virtual mapping >>necessary? > > There must be a virtual mapping. > >>The other question is how may I map user pages into the kernel? I've >>looked through vm_map.c, and it seems that support for this is >>lacking. To get around this for now, I am attempting to use almost >>exclusively physical address--although am now sure how it will work >>out. > > vm_map.c isn't really the right place to look. A better place would be >physio/vmapbuf/vunmapbuf in kern_physio.c and vm_machdep.c. Thanks to all that have pointed me in the right direction wrt this type of thing. :) I think I should have enough info now to get things working properly now. I was kind of curious about one thing though--in vm_page.c, there is mention that vm_hold should only be used for temporary wiring. Is it really bad to use it often? I want to have the process wired anyways, so would this even matter? -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 16:57:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04402 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:57:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03885; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15127; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd015115; Wed Jun 3 23:44:33 1998 Message-ID: <3575DFDB.2781E494@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 16:44:27 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Transparent packet diversion: Where is it? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A month or so ago, someone announced a package that did redirection of packets to arbitrary places. I remember the comment "it's wierd seeing all those foreign adresses in the netstat listing". kind of like the Linux transproxy code I guess. if ANYONE has a pointer to that code I'd apreciate it. I've done every search I can think of on the mail archives.. julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 17:04:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06337 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:04:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06213 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01832; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806032258.PAA01832@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@NetBSD.org, port-i386@NetBSD.org, woods@zeus.leitch.com (Greg A. Woods) Subject: Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Jun 1998 15:52:46 EDT." <199806031952.PAA19479@brain.zeus.leitch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 15:58:40 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > [[ Please feel free to trim out any cross posting as appropriate, but > please do include in any replies. ]] > > I'm about to embark on adding kernel support for hardware monitoring. > > In particular I'm interested in supporting the National Semiconductor > LM78 system hardware monitor that's available on motherboards such as > the ASUS P2L97 and some models of the FIC PA-2012, etc. > > It would appear that there are at least three or four ways to approach > the introduction of such functionality in the system, and perhaps > various combinations or permutations of these ways. 8) Joy! The LM78 can be mapped into ISA space, or talked to on the SMB (I2C) bus. It can be mapped at 0x290 (fairly common) or at 0x80 (to use the POST RAM). You also have to deal with the LM75's hung off it, as well as the LM79 (new variant) and the Intel Haceta 2 (compatible). I'm led to believe that the PII processor modules also have SMB connectivity and internal monitoring of some unspecified sort. > First off I should state some overall goals. Of primary concern is an > ability to generate management alarms (eg. through SNMP) for reporting > exceptions to various limits and interrupts the chip can detect. Also > necessary is the ability to do trend analysis -- i.e. periodic data > gathering of data values from the chip by a logging agent. Since at > least the LM78 chip requires some programming to set limits, it's also > necessary to be able to this programming from user land. Given the diversity of potential monitoring sources, it strikes me that using the hardware alarm facilities is perhaps less useful than leaving the alarm facilities at a higher level in the abstraction. > The four primary ways of providing an interface to the hardware monitor > chip that I can think of would be: > > 1. minimal character device with ioctl() interface. This would be unpopular with the people that don't like ioctl(). > 2. full fledged character device with communications protocol. This would work best in the DEVFS environment, where you could populate a directory with nodes for detected parametric sources. > 3. sysctl interface. This is perhaps the best method, but would require adding dyanmic node creation to sysctl. > 4. virtual filesystem interface. This is the approach the Linux people have used (in their procfs). I'm not sure I like it, and a lot of other people have voiced unhappiness about it. > Asynchronous alarm outputs could be done either through the character > device interface or a virtual file (with a monitoring daemon process), > and/or through the normal kernel syslog mechanisms. I think the daemon would be better placed to deal with policy. The alarm facilities on the Natsemi parts at least are more geared towards alerting the SMI BIOS than a "normal" consumer. > The reason I'm inviting comment is that I'd really like to be able to > submit this code once it's done and let the maintenance be taken over > because I doubt I'll be able to maintain it for more than one or two > motherboards in the future. Given a decent design to start with, I think that'd be relatively straightforward. > I'm also interested to learn if anyone else is working on similar > things. Yes, on a side burner. I'm mostly working on the Intel SMB (function 3 in the PIIX4), attempting to stick to the SMBBIOS API for a low-level layer. You would put the LM7x driver on top of this, for example, as well as on the ISA bus. > I've been able to find a couple of lm78 drivers in linux land, > and we've got a small program that when given inb()/out() access can > read values from the lm78. One of the linux drivers has sysctl and > kernfs support already and I'll probably use it as a starting point. The only Linux LM78 driver I've seen was Donald Becker's. It produced some very unrealistic results on the few systems I tested it on, which doesn't say much I guess. I would suggest that we need to consider the provider abstraction(s) fairly carefully if the ultimate goal is standards interoperability. For better or for worse, the elephants have been down this path already. See www.dtmf.org and www.teleport.com/~acpi for some of the footprints. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 17:05:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06914 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:05:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06792 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:05:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id JAA03680; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:34:40 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980604093440.Y22406@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:34:40 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: hm@kts.org, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? References: <19980603093901.D22406@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Hellmuth Michaelis on Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 03:36:42PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 3 June 1998 at 15:36:42 +0200, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: > >>> BoF's are usually (always?) scheduled at the show. >> >> Not always. We did one in Germany two years ago, > > Which one was it ? GUUG-Frühjahrstagung in Köln, March 1996 Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 17:08:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07701 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07427 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:07:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01867; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806032301.QAA01867@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Donn Miller cc: James Raynard , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling sources with "-O2 -m486 -pipe" In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Jun 1998 19:03:51 -0000." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 16:01:10 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > About the -m486 option -- I use -m486 -O3 -pipe all the time; does it slow > down the execution somewhat? I noticed the Mozilla sources defined > -mno-486. Do you know if compiling with -mno-486 gives better results > than -m486 as far as speed, etc.? I figured that -m486 generated 486 > instructions, which would make a pentium run faster. There are no 486 instructions to generate, and anything over -O runs the risk of exposing bugs in the gcc optimiser it seems. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 17:19:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10327 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:19:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oznet11.ozemail.com.au (oznet11.ozemail.com.au [203.2.192.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10194 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe.shevland@horizonti.com) Received: from horizonti.com ([203.33.128.245]) by oznet11.ozemail.com.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA21940; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:19:10 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <3575E7C2.A77935C4@horizonti.com> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 10:18:10 +1000 From: Joe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UART's References: <199806032302.QAA01885@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > > I wasn't sure if this was a newbie question to be directed at hackers or > > vice-versa, so here it is. > > > > I'm interested in writing a device driver for a 16550 UART serial port > > (I hope that's right). Is there a few good source code files to gain an > > understanding of this in the kernel source? > > Is this meant to be a driver for FreeBSD, or some other operating > system? If the former, what's wrong with the driver we already have? :) Nothing's wrong with it at all. Sorry, I should have expanded. The driver is going to be for Windoze, because their standard serial driver cannot cope with a particular problem I'm experiencing. A friend has set up a fish-feeding device (sits on a mast out in a lake) that provides feedback and other services, communicating with a PC back 'on-shore'. Using an RS232 serial connection between the two devices (PC - custom device) is fine, as is a current loop. However, when a radio signal is used (with a much higher packet error rate), the Win driver vomits and replies that it has 0 bytes in the read buffer (even though the other device is happily transmitting). The interesting thing is that slower (CPU) PC's work better than faster PC's when using the radio transmission. That's pretty sketchy (and prob. doesn't make sense), but that's all I know as of this minute. Anyway, just wanted to see how FBSD handles the UART. Cheers. > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 17:49:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07510 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:08:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07401 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:07:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01885; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806032302.QAA01885@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Joe cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UART's In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:14:18 +1000." <3575D8CA.865C81C4@horizonti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 16:02:17 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I wasn't sure if this was a newbie question to be directed at hackers or > vice-versa, so here it is. > > I'm interested in writing a device driver for a 16550 UART serial port > (I hope that's right). Is there a few good source code files to gain an > understanding of this in the kernel source? Is this meant to be a driver for FreeBSD, or some other operating system? If the former, what's wrong with the driver we already have? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 18:18:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22750 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:18:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22670 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:18:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from connie@primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01145 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:18:13 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:18:13 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199806040118.SAA01145@smtp01.primenet.com> Received: from ip229.mci.primenet.com(206.165.54.229) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd001069; Wed Jun 3 18:18:06 1998 X-Sender: connie@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: connie@primenet.com (connie crowley) Subject: RE: Installation bug REPLY: dan.early@mail.sprint.com or connie@primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >From: Early_Dan/OM50@atopmp01.corp.sprint.com >X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 >Priority: Urgent >Importance: High >Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:16:24 -0500 >Subject: RE: Installation bug REPLY: dan.early@mail.sprint.com or connie@primenet.com >TO: connie@primenet.com >X-UIDL: eb29092ce742484f60f6f23e5ebfb8d7 >X-Status: > > > > ---------- > From: Dan Early > Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 8:19 AM > To: 'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org' > Subject: Installation bug REPLY: dan.early@mail.sprint.com or > connie@primenet.com > Importance: High > > I sent the below a week ago. Since then gave up on the pc, put > Windows on it and gave it to my wife. I tried making a small dos > partition and putting BSD on the rest of the drive. All the tricks > mentioned in the book. Same results as below. But I'm planning on > building a new pc with an smp board, onboard scsi controller & > several fancy options. I'd still like to load BSD on this machine, so > if there is anything I did wrong below I'd still like to know what it > was. I decided to try BSD at the recommendation of a friend here who > is on your development list. At this point it's not looking very > good. How 'bout a reply? > > ---------- > From: Dan Early > Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 12:14 PM > To: 'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org' > Subject: Installation bug > Importance: High > > I recently bought a copy of "Free BSD." It is a commonly sold > installation package with 4 CDs and a book. I have been unable to > install it. To date, the book & CDs has cost me about $55, plus > over $300 in new hardware. While I have never used BSD much, I know > enough UNIX to have installed Solaris (for example) some 50 times > maybe. > > This system is a Pentium 166, 32 Meg RAM, BTC IDE 24X CD drive, > Conner 540 (?) Meg IDE with 1048/16/1048/63 geometry. Graphics from > a Trident 512K card. It uses an onboard IDE controller. The > installation described below has also been tried with a second IDE > drive, a Maxtor 200 Meg IDE with the same results. Both of these > drives have previously had Linux loaded without any problem. > > Bios is Award P&P v1.0A. It is set to autoconfigure the drive and > recognized the IDE drive as a secondary master at 540 Meg, etc. on > boot. This formats to 515 Meg, I understand because of having > greater than 1024 cylinders. The CD drive is recognized at boot and > the installation boots from the CD without any apparent problem. > > Configuring the kernal, I delete SCSI drivers, ethernet drivers and > other drivers I am not presently using. > > At the setup screen, I note that the release name is 2.2.5, and I > set it to debug, source from the CD drive. > > I do a custom installation. The partions show two: the first from > block 0-63, unused, the second taking the rest of the disk > dedicated to BSD, and set bootable. The numbers for this show as 63 > 1056321 1056381 wd2s1 Ptype=3 freebsd 165. The drive geometry does > show as 1048/16/63. I accept the default newfs options. > > For boot managers, I have tried setting it to install both a FBSD > boot manager and not install any. > > Label: > > I accept defaults for size. This produces the following: > > wds1a / 32 M UFS Y > wd2s1f swap 73 M > wd2s1e /var 30 M UFS Y > wd2s1f /usr 379M UFS Y > > I install the kernal-developer version. I install no other > packages. On accepting this, the installation begins and I do an > Alt-F4 to go to a shell, and Alt F2 to watch the installation > process. I do a df when it completes. This produces: > > root_dev 2495 96% / > /dev/wd2a 46% /mnt > /dev/wd2s1f 19% /mnt/usr > /dev/wd2s1e 0% /mnt/var > wdc0c 100% /dist > > I can see /kernal is copied to / > > On rebooting the machine, it does a probe to assorted devices, > sends a "panic, can't mount /" message and goes into a reboot > cycle. If I try giving it a specific boot command, such as "boot: > 1:wd(2,a)?" or many variations of that, it either says it can't > find it or it returns an "error [memory address]" in an infinite > loop. > > I have tried variations on this installation numerous times from > the CD and also from a diskette boot image. It always fails the > same way. I gave the CD to a friend here at work, who put it on a > partition on his PC. It installed normally for him. > > Any suggestions appreciated. Please reply e-mail to either: > connie@primenet.com or Dan.early@mail.sprint.com. > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 18:45:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27819 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:45:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (jonny@roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27755; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03920; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:44:55 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199806040144.WAA03920@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806021650.LAA02867@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Jun 2, 98 11:50:32 am" To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:44:55 -0300 (EST) Cc: mike@dingo.cdrom.com, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(John S. Dyson) // Mike Smith said: // > // > Sure; but can't these sort of improvements be made to the methods for // > manipulating procfs nodes? What other drawbacks are there to the FS // > model? // > // It is bogus that writing to a file "controls" something inside // the system, Then, /dev/kmem is bogus ? TM The idea that file namespace controls everything is a GoodThing, and the existence of device files is one of the things I like more in Unix. I agree with somebody (Mike ?) who said that this facilitates using of general tools. I have used kernfs long time ago, but stopped using when I perceived that it was not being developed anymore, and no more functionality would be added. It was dead. With tool functions to facilitate kernel drivers to create their interface to kernfs, they would be as easy as creating sysctls. What I don't like in Linux kernels is the mess that they made into their procfs, so if you guys intend to continue kernfs, be careful to keep the house clean. // that is kind-of what SNMP is for. Now, if someone // wants a kernfs that is compatible with our sysctl, they should // be able to use the sysctl info to build the kernfs. That is not a bad idea ! :) /kern/sysctl/... Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 21:19:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21284 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA21275 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:19:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id EAA08571; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:40:28 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199806040240.EAA08571@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: tftp in bootp process To: Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr (Nicolas Souchu) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:40:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mbouget@club-internet.fr In-Reply-To: <19980603224748.33844@breizh.prism.uvsq.fr> from "Nicolas Souchu" at Jun 3, 98 10:47:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi there, > > Is /tftpboot/cfg.X.X.X file really usefull in the bootp process? > > /etc/bootptab already contains rootfs, swapfs and so on... > > A identification/security issue? tftp is not used anymore in the diskless boot process. Unfortunately the documentation (especially, the handbook) has not been updated. The best source of documentation is the netboot(8) manpage. cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 21:41:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23956 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:41:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23939; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:41:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00768; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:41:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806040441.XAA00768@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806040144.WAA03920@roma.coe.ufrj.br> from Joao Carlos Mendes Luis at "Jun 3, 98 10:44:55 pm" To: jonny@jonny.eng.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:41:14 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@dingo.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joao Carlos Mendes Luis said: > > Then, /dev/kmem is bogus ? > TM > The idea that file namespace controls everything is a GoodThing, > and the existence of device files is one of the things I like > more in Unix. > That is reducing things to the absurd. I don't like the silly string parsing in the debug control for procfs for example. The bad thing about multiple namespaces is when they aren't well supported, poorly designed and not hierarchical like the SYSV IPC stuff. Think of this issue: When writing a message to a /kernfs file to modify a function, do you want to implement a full and general interface for partial message transfers, etc??? Sysctl is pseudo-message based, and operations are complete within themselves. > > > I agree with somebody (Mike ?) who said that this facilitates > using of general tools. > Sysctl is easy to use with such tools also. If someone wants to use the kernfs paradigm, it is okay, but it seems to be redundant. Using sysctl is quite trivial (the man page reflects a much nicer API than the original.) Also, kernfs implies a filesystem, and the associated VFS stuff, while it isn't needed with sysctl. You don't need vnodes, or any of the other cruft to implement the unnecessary state for sysctl, while filesystems have to implement all kinds of things... -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 21:49:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26029 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:49:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25909 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:49:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00815; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:47:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806040447.XAA00815@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Recompiling sources with "-O2 -m486 -pipe" In-Reply-To: <199806032301.QAA01867@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jun 3, 98 04:01:10 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:47:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: dmm125@bellatlantic.net, james@jraynard.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith said: > > > > About the -m486 option -- I use -m486 -O3 -pipe all the time; does it slow > > down the execution somewhat? I noticed the Mozilla sources defined > > -mno-486. Do you know if compiling with -mno-486 gives better results > > than -m486 as far as speed, etc.? I figured that -m486 generated 486 > > instructions, which would make a pentium run faster. > > There are no 486 instructions to generate, and anything over -O runs > the risk of exposing bugs in the gcc optimiser it seems. > -m486 expands the code somewhat, with larger alignment boundaries. Netscape is already very big :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 21:56:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27073 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:56:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27060 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:56:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA17237 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:56:20 -0400 (EDT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: RealQuick Newsletter (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I checked out the WebTechniques article mentioned in the newsletter and read the "Performance Tuning Apache Under FreeBSD" section. What do you all think of the methods listed here, especially the kernel compile optimizations? I noticed this person also side-stepped the login.conf limits, which can really bite you if you're not careful. Comments? I'd like to summarize responses and send any constructive criticism to the author. Thanks, Charles Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com ---- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:39:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RealQuick Newsletter FreeBSD Really-Quick(TM) NewsLetter. Things Happening in FreeBSD. Volume #1 Issue #1 June 1998 [snip snip snip] Web Masters: Check out this article on balancing Webserver traffic. http://www.WebTechniques.com/features/1998/05/engelschall/engelschall.shtml [snip] This is a monthly Newsletter, published only by E-mail. If you have anything you would like to see in the next edition, send e-mail to fbsd-book@vmunix.com -Chris Coleman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 22:32:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01732 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iconmail.bellatlantic.net (iconmail.bellatlantic.net [199.173.162.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01614; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:31:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmm125@bellatlantic.net) Received: from myname.my.domain (client201-122-92.bellatlantic.net [151.201.122.92]) by iconmail.bellatlantic.net (IConNet Sendmail) with SMTP id BAA14471; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:31:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Donn Miller X-Sender: dmm125@myname.my.domain To: "John S. Dyson" cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling sources with "-O2 -m486 -pipe" In-Reply-To: <199806040447.XAA00815@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > Mike Smith said: > > > > > > About the -m486 option -- I use -m486 -O3 -pipe all the time; does it slow > > > down the execution somewhat? I noticed the Mozilla sources defined > > > -mno-486. Do you know if compiling with -mno-486 gives better results > > > than -m486 as far as speed, etc.? I figured that -m486 generated 486 > > > instructions, which would make a pentium run faster. > > > > There are no 486 instructions to generate, and anything over -O runs > > the risk of exposing bugs in the gcc optimiser it seems. > > > -m486 expands the code somewhat, with larger alignment boundaries. Netscape > is already very big :-). Some postings in DejaNews claim that the -mno-486 runs faster on a Pentium (than -m486). Other postings say just the opposite. The -m486 option, from what I understand, benefits the 486 more than a Pentium. I thought that the Pentium architecture was a ``superset'' more or less of the 486, so I figured whatever makes a 486 run faster will make a Pentium run faster. I figure that: use: CFLAGS -m486 -O3 for small to medium-sized code. use: CFLAGS -mno-486 -O3 for large code (ex. - Mozilla, compiling entire XFree86 dist. from source). --Donn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 23:05:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05857 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:05:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05833 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:04:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.0/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id IAA04155 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:04:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id IAA04380 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:01:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980604080140.A4348@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:01:40 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling sources with "-O2 -m486 -pipe" Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199806032301.QAA01867@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.3i In-Reply-To: <199806032301.QAA01867@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 04:01:10PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4311 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Donn Miller: > > About the -m486 option -- I use -m486 -O3 -pipe all the time; does it slow > > down the execution somewhat? I noticed the Mozilla sources defined -m486 is likely to slow down the execution because -m486 alignments are not really suitable to pentium and later processors. -m486 doesn't generate any special instruction (the code will run on a 386). If you want to see any difference in speed, switch to egcs/pgcc which has a pentium mode (and a Cyrix/K5/K6 mode for pgcc). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #60: Fri May 15 21:04:22 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 23:19:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA07051 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dog.farm.org (gw-hssi-2.farm.org [209.66.103.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA07036 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:18:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dog.farm.org!dk) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id XAA11387; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:14:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199806040614.XAA11387@dog.farm.org> To: barry@lustig.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, serge@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Organization: FARM Computing Association Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <19980603171959.17140.qmail@devious.lustig.com> you wrote: > Does it make sense to have portmap fail when svc_run returns or would it > make more sense to try and recover and restart the loop? I've had portmap > abort a few times now, and the only easy remedy is a reboot of the machine. > If I try and restart portmap, I have to find all of the programs that > registered with it and restart them. Any suggestions? By the way, this is > from RELENG_2_2 cvsupped yesterday. > This is from portmap.c: > /* additional initializations */ > check_startup(); > (void)signal(SIGCHLD, reap); > svc_run(); > syslog(LOG_ERR, "svc_run returned unexpectedly"); > abort(); this bites me from time to time... see end of this message for workaround... > This is from svc_run.c in libc: > void > svc_run() > { > #ifdef FD_SETSIZE > fd_set readfds; > #else > int readfds; > #endif /* def FD_SETSIZE */ > for (;;) { > #ifdef FD_SETSIZE > readfds = svc_fdset; > #else > readfds = svc_fds; > #endif /* def FD_SETSIZE */ > switch (select(_rpc_dtablesize(), &readfds, NULL, NULL, > (struct timeval *)0)) { > case -1: > if (errno == EINTR) { > continue; > } > perror("svc_run: - select failed"); > return; > case 0: > continue; > default: > svc_getreqset(&readfds); > } > } > } what bothers me here is how come that select() returns -1 and yet errno != EINTR. According to man page, it should be then one of EBADF or EINVAL, none of which can occur... here is a promised workaround, running on production NIS server, run from crontab every few minutes. With it, FreeBSD proves itself as a very stable operating system: ; cat rpc.restart #!/bin/sh # # RPC services restart script # If there is a global system configuration file, suck it in. if [ -f /etc/sysconfig ]; then . /etc/sysconfig fi rpcinfo -p >/dev/null && exit 0 echo -n restarting RPC daemons: # Portmapper should always be run, to provide RPC services for inetd. if [ -x /usr/sbin/portmap ]; then killall -9 portmap sleep 1 # looks like it helps echo -n ' portmap'; portmap fi # Start ypserv if we're an NIS server. # Run rpc.ypxfrd and rpc.yppasswdd only on the NIS master server. if [ "X${nis_serverflags}" != X"NO" ]; then killall -9 ypserv sleep 1 # looks like it helps echo -n ' ypserv'; ypserv ${nis_serverflags} killall -9 rpc.ypxfrd sleep 1 # looks like it helps if [ "X${ypxfrdflags}" != X"NO" ]; then echo -n ' rpc.ypxfrd'; rpc.ypxfrd ${ypxfrdflags} fi killall -9 rpc.yppasswdd sleep 1 # looks like it helps if [ "X${yppasswddflags}" != X"NO" ]; then echo -n ' rpc.yppasswdd'; rpc.yppasswdd ${yppasswddflags} fi fi # Start ypbind if we're an NIS client if [ "X${nis_clientflags}" != X"NO" ]; then killall -9 ypbind sleep 1 # looks like it helps echo -n ' ypbind'; ypbind ${nis_clientflags} if [ "X${nis_ypsetflags}" != X"NO" ]; then echo -n ' ypset'; ypset ${nis_ypsetflags} fi fi echo "" exit 1 # make it mail about this To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 23:25:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA07764 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:25:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dog.farm.org (gw-hssi-2.farm.org [209.66.103.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA07751 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:25:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dog.farm.org!dk) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id XAA11528; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:24:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199806040624.XAA11528@dog.farm.org> To: mcgovern@spoon.beta.com (Brian J. McGovern) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New Cyclom-Y Driver for 2.2.[56] from Cyclades Corp Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Organization: FARM Computing Association Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199805301332.JAA03939@spoon.beta.com> you wrote: > > Do the new drivers from Cyclades include BREAK support? I've been > >fiddling with cy.c in 3.0-current to get break support for a pair of > >16-port Cyclades Cyclom-Y PCI adapters, but no luck so far. Linux and > >Win95 send breaks fine, but I'd rather not have to switch OS's just > >because of this. > According to the driver source, implementing BREAK is on the TODO list, so > I suspect its not done. I know it _has_ been implemented in the FreeBSD drivers > for the Zo and Ze cards (cause I wrote it). > Also, to address the 'sync'ing issue, if you're in a hurry, I can leave my > custom build of 2.2.6 (with the new cy and the cz driver incorporated) on > my FTP site for download. I also shipped Cyclades a copy for their archives. > You can probably ask them for it, as well. what's new in the driver? Or, what's really broken in old driver which is fixed in new driver? -- I just heard that the brain is like a computer. If that's true, then there aren't any stupid people, just people running DOS. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 23:33:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08918 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:33:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles348.castles.com [208.214.167.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08901 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:33:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00537; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806040528.WAA00537@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr (Nicolas Souchu), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mbouget@club-internet.fr Subject: Re: tftp in bootp process In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 04:40:27 +0200." <199806040240.EAA08571@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 22:28:27 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hi there, > > > > Is /tftpboot/cfg.X.X.X file really usefull in the bootp process? > > > > /etc/bootptab already contains rootfs, swapfs and so on... > > > > A identification/security issue? > > tftp is not used anymore in the diskless boot process. Unfortunately the > documentation (especially, the handbook) has not been updated. The > best source of documentation is the netboot(8) manpage. Ah, last time I looked at the netboot sources, it still fetched and read the configuration file. The netboot(8) manpage was stolen from NetBSD and never updated. It doesn't describe the (primitive, Sun -inspired) NetBSD diskless environment very well, and its applicability to FreeBSD is even less. I quote from netboot(8) just for perspective: In phase 2, the boot program loads a kernel. Operation in this phase de- pends on the design of the boot program. (The design described here is the one used by Sun and NetBSD/hp300.) The boot program: I can't imagine what this manpage is doing apart from confusing people. I wouldn't want to recommend the FTL AppNotes collection just yet (with a grand total of two notes), but they *do* both apply, reasonably accurately, to booting diskless FreeBSD systems, and they do cover the use of both pure BOOTP and mixed BOOTP/TFTP configuration. http://www.freebsd.org/~msmith/FTL/appnotes -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 23:41:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10154 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:41:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles348.castles.com [208.214.167.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA10148; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:41:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00588; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806040536.WAA00588@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG cc: jonny@jonny.eng.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis), mike@dingo.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Jun 1998 23:41:14 CDT." <199806040441.XAA00768@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 22:36:44 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Joao Carlos Mendes Luis said: > > > > Then, /dev/kmem is bogus ? > > TM > > The idea that file namespace controls everything is a GoodThing, > > and the existence of device files is one of the things I like > > more in Unix. > > > That is reducing things to the absurd. I don't like the silly > string parsing in the debug control for procfs for example. The > bad thing about multiple namespaces is when they aren't well supported, > poorly designed and not hierarchical like the SYSV IPC stuff. > > Think of this issue: > When writing a message to a /kernfs file to modify a function, > do you want to implement a full and general interface for partial > message transfers, etc??? Sysctl is pseudo-message based, and > operations are complete within themselves. The write has to be a single, complete operation. That more or less goes without saying. The issue is whether you are willing to have these implicit controls on something that you might think "should" behave entirely like a file. This still kills a lot of /dev, but it's also generally assumed that things mounted from "special" filesystems may have "special" semantics. > > I agree with somebody (Mike ?) who said that this facilitates > > using of general tools. > > > Sysctl is easy to use with such tools also. The current interface to sysctl sucks. I certainly can't use cat(1) on it. I can't open it and parse it with sscanf(). I can't mmap() it either, and it would be very nice to be able to do that. 8) > If someone wants to use the kernfs paradigm, it is okay, but it > seems to be redundant. Using sysctl is quite trivial (the man page > reflects a much nicer API than the original.) Also, kernfs implies > a filesystem, and the associated VFS stuff, while it isn't needed > with sysctl. You don't need vnodes, or any of the other cruft > to implement the unnecessary state for sysctl, while filesystems > have to implement all kinds of things... The biggest win from the filesystem complexity is traversal that works. I implemented the entire DMI parameter space as a self-handling sysctl hierarchy the other day. It worked fine insofar as you could look things up if you knew they were there, but sysctl makes no provision for traversal through self-handled subtrees, and it would be slightly difficult to add without a major interface change. If you go look like a filesystem, this happens automatically. It is also one of the things that would prevent a sysctlfs being trivially implementable. Imagine a node that looked like a file, but was actually a directory... (No, the DMI code isn't going anywhere fast. You can do everything I did by reading from /dev/mem; I haven't implemented the procedural interface yet because they use the demented 16-bit protected mode PnP interface and Jonathan isn't happy with our support for that yet.) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 3 23:52:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11796 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:52:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles348.castles.com [208.214.167.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11673; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:52:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00663; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806040546.WAA00663@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Donn Miller cc: "John S. Dyson" , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling sources with "-O2 -m486 -pipe" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 01:31:26 -0000." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 22:46:28 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > About the -m486 option -- I use -m486 -O3 -pipe all the time; does it slow > > > > down the execution somewhat? I noticed the Mozilla sources defined > > > > -mno-486. Do you know if compiling with -mno-486 gives better results > > > > than -m486 as far as speed, etc.? I figured that -m486 generated 486 > > > > instructions, which would make a pentium run faster. > > > > > > There are no 486 instructions to generate, and anything over -O runs > > > the risk of exposing bugs in the gcc optimiser it seems. > > > > > -m486 expands the code somewhat, with larger alignment boundaries. Netscape > > is already very big :-). > > Some postings in DejaNews claim that the -mno-486 runs faster on a Pentium > (than -m486). Other postings say just the opposite. -m486 optimises alignment for the '486 by padding. On the Pentium and above alignment is not so significant, and the padding wastes space in the cache and time for fetching and discarding. Unless you intend to only run on a 486, it is generally wrong to use it. > The -m486 option, from what I understand, benefits the 486 more than a Pentium. > I thought that the Pentium architecture was a ``superset'' more or less > of the 486, so I figured whatever makes a 486 run faster will make a > Pentium run faster. Wrong. 8) > I figure that: > > use: CFLAGS -m486 -O3 for small to medium-sized code. > use: CFLAGS -mno-486 -O3 for large code (ex. - Mozilla, compiling > entire XFree86 dist. from source). I would still advise against anything over -O. I have certainly seen strange (bad) problems with code built with -O2 and above, and I can do without the grief. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 00:05:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14269 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:05:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14258 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:05:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA05851; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:07:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:07:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: "Kenneth D. Merry" cc: Peter Johnson , gibbs@pluto.plutotech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Support for Adaptec 2940U2W / Ultra2 SCSI? In-Reply-To: <199806032312.RAA24912@panzer.plutotech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (cc:'ed to -hackers, perhaps they are also interested..) On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > Peter Johnson wrote... > > At 08:29 AM 6/3/98 -0600, you wrote: > > >Peter Johnson wrote... > > >> Is the Adaptec 2940U2W SCSI adapter supported by FreeBSD-current? I'm > > > I'm not sure whether any one has tested that specific card/drive > > >configuration, but the card (and any other 7890-based board) only works > > >under CAM. See: > > > > > >ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/cam/README > > >or > > >ftp://ftp.kdm.org/pub/FreeBSD/cam/README > > > > > > Since CAM is not currently built into FreeBSD, what is the recommended way > > of installing it on a new system.. it's the classic "chicken or egg" > > problem--I can't install FreeBSD w/o CAM, and I can't build CAM w/o > Andrzej Bialecki made a CAM boot floppy at one point, > I'm not sure whether he has a recent boot floppy. I've CCed this to > him, maybe he'll fill us in on that. Yes, it's available for download from: http://www.freebsd.org/~abial/ This version was built from (I think) March snapshot - unfortunately I did it two days before the new snapshot came out... It contains detailed instructions on how to get the system going with new kernel. > Justin and I haven't messed around with making boot floppies since > Andrzej has already done it. Jordan talked about making a CAM release one > time, but I don't think that ever happened. And I doubt it will ever happen without our specific help... There are still some pieces in the whole picture which make it difficult, such as bootblocks not recognizing "da", dubious assumptions in libdisk etc... I tried to do this some time ago, so this may have changed. Andrzej Bialecki --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@nask.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 00:43:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19081 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:43:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [194.93.177.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA18854 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:41:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27882; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:38:49 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Message-ID: <19980604103849.A27834@ucb.crimea.ua> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:38:49 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Dmitry Kohmanyuk , "Brian J. McGovern" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New Cyclom-Y Driver for 2.2.[56] from Cyclades Corp Mail-Followup-To: Dmitry Kohmanyuk , "Brian J. McGovern" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199806040624.XAA11528@dog.farm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91i In-Reply-To: <199806040624.XAA11528@dog.farm.org>; from Dmitry Kohmanyuk on Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 11:24:20PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 11:24:20PM -0700, Dmitry Kohmanyuk wrote: > In article <199805301332.JAA03939@spoon.beta.com> you wrote: > > > Do the new drivers from Cyclades include BREAK support? I've been > > >fiddling with cy.c in 3.0-current to get break support for a pair of > > >16-port Cyclades Cyclom-Y PCI adapters, but no luck so far. Linux and > > >Win95 send breaks fine, but I'd rather not have to switch OS's just > > >because of this. > > > According to the driver source, implementing BREAK is on the TODO list, so > > I suspect its not done. I know it _has_ been implemented in the FreeBSD drivers > > for the Zo and Ze cards (cause I wrote it). > > > Also, to address the 'sync'ing issue, if you're in a hurry, I can leave my > > custom build of 2.2.6 (with the new cy and the cz driver incorporated) on > > my FTP site for download. I also shipped Cyclades a copy for their archives. > > You can probably ask them for it, as well. > > what's new in the driver? Or, what's really broken in old driver which > is fixed in new driver? > According to the README file for the new driver: FreeBSD Cyclom-Y Driver (for FreeBSD 2.2.5 or later) The Cyclom-Y driver included in the FreeBSD distribution does not support the latest Cyclom-Y gear (8Yo rev. 6.02 and SM8/SM16 II). In order to support these devices in your system, you must install this driver revision. [ ... ] If you have any question, please feel free to contact the Cyclades Technical Support by phone at (510)770-9727 x257 or by e-mail at . P.S. By the way, there is a Cyclades-Z driver for FreeBSD available from ftp.cyclades.com. -- Ruslan Ermilov System Administrator ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea 2426679 ICQ Network, UIN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 00:45:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19501 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:45:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19464; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:44:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00761; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:44:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806040744.CAA00761@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806040536.WAA00588@antipodes.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jun 3, 98 10:36:44 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:44:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jonny@jonny.eng.br, mike@dingo.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith said: > > The write has to be a single, complete operation. That more or less > goes without saying. The issue is whether you are willing to have > these implicit controls on something that you might think "should" > behave entirely like a file. This still kills a lot of /dev, but it's > also generally assumed that things mounted from "special" filesystems > may have "special" semantics. > Preface this with: Conversions in the kernel are ugly. They should be done by a user space program. Sysctl provides a consistant interface from kernel binary formats to user friendly formats, without conversions in kernel space... Again, reducing to the absurd. Why add yet another non-file like file??? Hmmm??? Are we justifying wierd semantics by other cases of wierd semantics? Sometimes the wierd semantics might make sense, but you can do most if not all of what makes sense with simple shell scripting and the sysctl command. The sysctl system call/subroutine(s) are very simple to use, for their purposes. If you want to emulate the NT registry with a filesystem, that is okay with me :-). It seems to me that there is a case for a limited kernfs, but why use such a heavyweight scheme, when sysctl works just fine for most purposes? Pieces that might be useful to be dynamic, then the filesystem might be okay, but it seems to be a tool looking for a purpose. One cool thing about sysctl vs. kernfs type schemes, is that for the kernfs to be useful for shell scripts, you have to do the ascii to binary and vice versa conversions (assuming that the kernel isn't doing brain-dead ascii/binary/ascii conversions.) With sysctl, the types are managed for you in user space. :-). I think that it is extremely ugly to have to ascii convert things in the kernel (even though I am guilty of it.) By the time you create a filter to do the conversions (using a more reasonable kernel binary interface), then you have yet another sysctl program to interpret your kernfs. :-). Again, a kernfs for most of the purposes that we use sysctl for is just too heavyweight in the kernel. > > > > I agree with somebody (Mike ?) who said that this facilitates > > > using of general tools. > > > > > Sysctl is easy to use with such tools also. > > The current interface to sysctl sucks. I certainly can't use cat(1) on > it. I can't open it and parse it with sscanf(). I can't mmap() it > either, and it would be very nice to be able to do that. 8) > sysctl has a usable command interface. It is very easy to use the sysctl system calls and/or library routines. Who cares if you can't mmap it? That wouldn't make much sense anyway. For byte-counters, there is alot more good that you can do with the wasted vnodes that would be utilized by such a filesystem :-). > > If you go look like a filesystem, this happens automatically. It is > also one of the things that would prevent a sysctlfs being trivially > implementable. Imagine a node that looked like a file, but was > actually a directory... > The filesystem paradigm for sysctl things is simple overkill and typical of the "you can do everything with a hammer" mentality. This degrades into the mmaping of tty's type discussion. I suggest that if you would like a feature, then implement it. BTW, if someone wants to do some filesystem hacking, our procfs only needs a little cleanup to almost fully support PS without the proc size mismatch problem. There are some things that might make sense in a kernfs, but most of the kernel state setting and retrieval functions do not make sense in kernfs. Type conversion to printable formats belongs in userspace (within reason.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 01:02:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA22775 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:02:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA22592 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:01:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA08871; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:21:47 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199806040621.IAA08871@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: tftp in bootp process To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:21:47 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mbouget@club-internet.fr In-Reply-To: <199806040528.WAA00537@antipodes.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Jun 3, 98 10:28:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > tftp is not used anymore in the diskless boot process. Unfortunately the > > documentation (especially, the handbook) has not been updated. The > > best source of documentation is the netboot(8) manpage. > > Ah, last time I looked at the netboot sources, it still fetched and > read the configuration file. The netboot(8) manpage was stolen from on this you are right, but the tftp stuff is only a relic of the past and probably has been left in for backward compatibility only. In my local copy of the sources I have #ifdef'd out this section of code for a long time. > NetBSD and never updated. It doesn't describe the (primitive, Sun > -inspired) NetBSD diskless environment very well, and its applicability > to FreeBSD is even less. I quote from netboot(8) just for perspective: > > In phase 2, the boot program loads a kernel. Operation in this phase de- > pends on the design of the boot program. (The design described here is > the one used by Sun and NetBSD/hp300.) The boot program: > > I can't imagine what this manpage is doing apart from confusing people. Which manpage are you looking at ? The one attached below is from a stock 2.2.6-RELEASE . It was rewritten almost completely about one year ago by Tor Egge (if i remember well) and myself, to account for the extensive (in functionality; the code did not change much) changes in netboot to get all info from the bootptab, and to the kernel (this time more extensive changes done by Tor Egge) to give better support for diskless. To me this page seems very clear. If something is missing, it is just a set of related kernel config options. cheers luigi NETBOOT(8) FreeBSD System Manager's Manual NETBOOT(8) NAME netboot - Allows remote booting of the operating system SYNOPSIS netboot is used for booting the operating system over a network card. The program is either loaded into a ROM, or run from DOS. DESCRIPTION netboot loads parameters such as IP addresses, kernel name and filesystem names from a bootp server, tries to mount the specified root and swap filesystems, loads the specified kernel from the root filesystem using NFSv2, and then gives control to the kernel. The bootp server must be configured appropriately. An example configura- tion for /etc/bootptab is the following: .default:\ :sm=255.255.255.0:\ :gw=your.gateway.ip:\ :hn:ht=ether:vm=rfc1048:\ :rp="rootfs.ip:/rootfs/path":\ :T128="swapfs.ip:/swapfs/path":\ :T129=swapsize:\ :T130="root,mount,options":\ :T131="swap,mount,options":\ :ra=255.255.255.255: client01:bf="kernel.300":ha=00400530d6d9:tc=.default: client02:bf="kernel.280":ha=00400530d6d3:tc=.default: ... For a precise description of the bootptab parameters, see bootptab (5) . The netboot code uses options as follows. sm indicates the subnet mask. gw is the ip address of the gateway. hn instructs the bootp server to send the hostname in the reply. ht=ether indicates that the hardware is ethernet. vm=rfc1048 indicates the use of rfc1048 extensions. rp specifies where the directory mounted as the root filesystem is located. The IP address of the server must be specified, fol- lowed by a : and the directory pathname. T128 specifies where the directory containing the swap file is locat- ed. The IP address of the server must be specified, followed by a : and the directory pathname. The actual swapfile is a file named swap.X.Y.Z.T where X.Y.Z.T is the IP address of the client. If this argument is given, the swap file must exist. T129 specifies the size of the swap file, in KB. Must be specified as a 8 digits long hexadecimal number. 16 MB swap thus becomes T129=00004000. This argument is optional; if missing, the size of the swap file is read from the server. T130 specifies root mount options, such as soft, intr, tcp, etc. This argument is optional. The default is to use UDP. T131 specifies swap mount options. This argument is optional. bf is the name of the kernel. If not specified, it defaults to "ker- nel". ra is used to override the reply address. FILES /usr/mdec/nb8390.rom rom image for NE1000/NE2000 cards /usr/mdec/nb8390.com DOS executable for NE1000/NE2000 cards /usr/mdec/nb3c509.rom rom image for 3C509 cards /usr/mdec/nb3c509.com DOS executable for 3C509 cards SEE ALSO bootpd(8), bootptab(5) BUGS To use netboot with Western Digital/SMC cards or 3C503 cards, a recompile is needed after a little Makefile tweaking. May 15, 1997 2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 01:15:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24940 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:15:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA24930 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:15:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA08921; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:34:36 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199806040634.IAA08921@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: kernel bug To: perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:34:36 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: serg@bcs.zp.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alfred Perlstein" at Jun 3, 98 12:08:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > there is no atapi watchdog code, meaning if the atapi driver wedges you > are kinda out of luck. in my clueless search for something to do i've > been looking at this and comparing it to linux code for atapi handling, > but um, i kinda stink at this. someone said they'd fix it sooner or > later. later, later. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 01:28:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26894 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:28:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [194.93.177.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26760; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:26:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28339; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:25:31 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Message-ID: <19980604112530.B27834@ucb.crimea.ua> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:25:30 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Transparent packet diversion: Where is it? Mail-Followup-To: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG References: <3575DFDB.2781E494@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91i In-Reply-To: <3575DFDB.2781E494@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 04:44:27PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I recently wrote a small program which utilizes one divert socket and one udp socket to implement IP-over-IP tunneling. 1. It has a bug: the IP checksum only valid for packets without IP options. This is due to recalculating checksum using in_cksum_hdr(). 2. It lacks crypto-module, I'm planning to implement it soon. 3. You should specify the ``out'' keyword of the ipfw rule if you want your packets to be processed by the redirection-host itself (thus, TTL--). Any feedback will be much appreciated! You can download it from http://www.ucb.crimea.ua/~ru/FreeBSD/iptunnel/ On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 04:44:27PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: > A month or so ago, someone announced a package that > did redirection of packets to arbitrary places. > > > I remember the comment > "it's wierd seeing all those foreign adresses in the netstat listing". > > kind of like the Linux transproxy code I guess. > > if ANYONE has a pointer to that code I'd apreciate it. > I've done every search I can think of on the mail archives.. > > julian Regards, -- Ruslan Ermilov System Administrator ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea 2426679 ICQ Network, UIN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 01:55:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA00331 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:55:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA00312 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:55:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA29584; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:55:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19471; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA06987; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:55:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199806040855.BAA06987@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:55:26 -0700 In-Reply-To: Dmitry Kohmanyuk "Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG" (Jun 3, 11:14pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: dk+@ua.net, barry@lustig.com Subject: Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, serge@yahoo.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jun 3, 11:14pm, Dmitry Kohmanyuk wrote: } Subject: Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG } In article <19980603171959.17140.qmail@devious.lustig.com> you wrote: } > Does it make sense to have portmap fail when svc_run returns or would it } > make more sense to try and recover and restart the loop? I've had portmap } > abort a few times now, and the only easy remedy is a reboot of the machine. } > If I try and restart portmap, I have to find all of the programs that } > registered with it and restart them. Any suggestions? By the way, this is } > from RELENG_2_2 cvsupped yesterday. } } > This is from portmap.c: } } > /* additional initializations */ } > check_startup(); } > (void)signal(SIGCHLD, reap); } > svc_run(); } > syslog(LOG_ERR, "svc_run returned unexpectedly"); } > abort(); } } this bites me from time to time... see end of this message for workaround... } } > This is from svc_run.c in libc: } > void } > svc_run() } > { } > #ifdef FD_SETSIZE } > fd_set readfds; } > #else } > int readfds; } > #endif /* def FD_SETSIZE */ } } > for (;;) { } > #ifdef FD_SETSIZE } > readfds = svc_fdset; } > #else } > readfds = svc_fds; } > #endif /* def FD_SETSIZE */ } > switch (select(_rpc_dtablesize(), &readfds, NULL, NULL, } > (struct timeval *)0)) { } > case -1: } > if (errno == EINTR) { } > continue; } > } } > perror("svc_run: - select failed"); } > return; } > case 0: } > continue; } > default: } > svc_getreqset(&readfds); } > } } > } } > } } } what bothers me here is how come that select() returns -1 and yet } errno != EINTR. According to man page, it should be then one of } EBADF or EINVAL, none of which can occur... Well, there's a call to perror(). What does it say errno is? My suspicion is that it is ECHILD. My somewhat dated copy of portmap.c has the following code: void reap() { while (wait3((int *)NULL, WNOHANG, (struct rusage *)NULL) > 0); } If portmap receives two signals closely spaced in time, the first signal will interrupt the select() call, and if reap() is called after select() has set errno and returned, the wait3() call in reap() will stomp errno. I've fixed similar problems by saving errno at the beginning of a signal handler and restoring it at the end. I'm not sure what ANSI and POSIX have to say about this and I don't know if you can do this if you are using threads and have a per-thread errno, but it has worked for me. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 02:07:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01872 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:07:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (X6lYAd99giAqJpMgq885WTTAX3MzDyvc@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA01866 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:06:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.66] ([xTjkexZ3pfwXxS8F9VMsQ8+7ljCtaPKO]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0yhVyC-0004XQ-00; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:06:00 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0yhVyB-0000hZ-00; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:05:59 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:05:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: Dmitry Kohmanyuk "Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG" (Jun 3, 11:14pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: dk+@ua.net, barry@Lustig.COM Subject: Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, serge@yahoo.com Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jun 3, 11:14pm, Dmitry Kohmanyuk wrote: } Subject: Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG > In article <19980603171959.17140.qmail@devious.lustig.com> you wrote: > > Does it make sense to have portmap fail when svc_run returns or would it > > make more sense to try and recover and restart the loop? I've had portmap > > abort a few times now, and the only easy remedy is a reboot of the machine. > > If I try and restart portmap, I have to find all of the programs that > > registered with it and restart them. Any suggestions? By the way, this is > > from RELENG_2_2 cvsupped yesterday. > > > This is from portmap.c: > > > /* additional initializations */ > > check_startup(); > > (void)signal(SIGCHLD, reap); > > svc_run(); > > syslog(LOG_ERR, "svc_run returned unexpectedly"); > > abort(); > > this bites me from time to time... see end of this message for workaround... Damn, I saw this bugs ages ago here and a patch was posted (by Tim Hoek I think). How come it wasn't committed to -stable too? Yet another example of an important and easily fixed problem for which a patch is available only making it into -current. The problem is that the signal handler clobbers errno. > what bothers me here is how come that select() returns -1 and yet > errno != EINTR. According to man page, it should be then one of > EBADF or EINVAL, none of which can occur... > > here is a promised workaround, running on production NIS server, > run from crontab every few minutes. With it, FreeBSD proves > itself as a very stable operating system: Please try the following patch, or wait for a couple of days until it gets committed to -stable and cvsup. *** /usr/src/usr.sbin/portmap/portmap.c Thu Jun 4 10:02:58 1998 --- /usr/src/usr.sbin/portmap/portmap.c Thu Jun 4 10:02:49 1998 *************** *** 85,90 **** --- 85,91 ---- */ #include + #include #include #include #include *************** *** 604,608 **** --- 605,613 ---- void reap() { + int save_errno; + + save_errno = errno; while (wait3((int *)NULL, WNOHANG, (struct rusage *)NULL) > 0); + errno = save_errno; } Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 02:44:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07634 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:44:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07626 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:44:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA06631 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:44:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:44:34 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Who broke the CVS repository? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've just tried re-supping it 3 times, no change. Came across this trying (note keyword) to do a make release: U src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tDeque.exp U src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tDeque.inp U src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tFile.cc U src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tFile.exp cvs [checkout aborted]: EOF in key in RCS file /home/cvs/src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tFile.inp,v *** Error code 1 Stop. {/usr/src/release} root@mortis: % Looking at the file, it isn't an RCS file by any stretch; it's all data, no revision information. 'Fess up ;) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 02:45:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07755 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:45:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07725; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:45:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA29404; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd029401; Thu Jun 4 09:40:13 1998 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:40:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Ruslan Ermilov cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Transparent packet diversion: Where is it? In-Reply-To: <19980604112530.B27834@ucb.crimea.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG nope, that's not it.. IPdivert is similar to what I want but not it.. (we wrote divert so we know about that one :-) On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > Hi! > > I recently wrote a small program which utilizes one divert socket and > one udp socket to implement IP-over-IP tunneling. > > 1. It has a bug: the IP checksum only valid for packets without IP options. > This is due to recalculating checksum using in_cksum_hdr(). > 2. It lacks crypto-module, I'm planning to implement it soon. > 3. You should specify the ``out'' keyword of the ipfw rule if you want your > packets to be processed by the redirection-host itself (thus, TTL--). > > Any feedback will be much appreciated! > > You can download it from > > http://www.ucb.crimea.ua/~ru/FreeBSD/iptunnel/ > > On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 04:44:27PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: > > A month or so ago, someone announced a package that > > did redirection of packets to arbitrary places. > > > > > > I remember the comment > > "it's wierd seeing all those foreign adresses in the netstat listing". > > > > kind of like the Linux transproxy code I guess. > > > > if ANYONE has a pointer to that code I'd apreciate it. > > I've done every search I can think of on the mail archives.. > > > > julian > > Regards, > -- > Ruslan Ermilov System Administrator > ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank > +380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea > 2426679 ICQ Network, UIN > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 03:33:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14301 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 03:33:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay1.bcs.zp.ua (bcs-ts33.zcn.net [195.123.8.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14274; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 03:32:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from serg@bcs.zp.ua) Received: from bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (bcs3.bcs.zp.ua [195.123.10.73]) by relay1.bcs.zp.ua (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28371; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:32:01 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from serg@localhost) by bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07952; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:32:02 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from serg) From: Sergey Shkonda Message-Id: <199806041032.NAA07952@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: netboot bug To: phk@FreeBSD.ORG, tegge@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:32:02 +0300 (EEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There are ERROR in tftp implementation in netboot program: TFTP_ACK must be sent to another port, not a default TFTP one. path: sys/i386/boot/netboot --- main.c.orig Thu Jun 4 13:24:06 1998 +++ main.c Thu Jun 4 13:23:52 1998 @@ -464,6 +464,7 @@ return(0); } /* ACK PACKET */ if (tr->opcode != ntohs(TFTP_DATA)) return(0); + osocket = ntohs(tr->udp.src); tp.opcode = htons(TFTP_ACK); tp.u.ack.block = tr->u.data.block; udp_transmit(arptable[ARP_SERVER].ipaddr, isocket, -- Sergey Shkonda (serg@bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 04:36:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22593 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:36:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22523; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:36:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199806041136.EAA22523@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA129870153; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:35:53 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: Transparent packet diversion: Where is it? To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:35:52 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3575DFDB.2781E494@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Jun 3, 98 04:44:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Julian Elischer, sie said: > > A month or so ago, someone announced a package that > did redirection of packets to arbitrary places. IP Filter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 04:43:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23805 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:43:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA23754; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:42:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18728; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:41:23 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA08823; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:40:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980604134051.48560@follo.net> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:40:51 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, Mike Smith Cc: jonny@jonny.eng.br, mike@dingo.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... References: <199806040536.WAA00588@antipodes.cdrom.com> <199806040744.CAA00761@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199806040744.CAA00761@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Thu, Jun 04, 1998 at 02:44:46AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 04, 1998 at 02:44:46AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > One cool thing about sysctl vs. kernfs type schemes, is that for > the kernfs to be useful for shell scripts, you have to do the > ascii to binary and vice versa conversions (assuming that the kernel > isn't doing brain-dead ascii/binary/ascii conversions.) With sysctl, > the types are managed for you in user space. :-). I think that it is > extremely ugly to have to ascii convert things in the kernel (even though > I am guilty of it.) By the time you create a filter to do the conversions > (using a more reasonable kernel binary interface), then you have yet > another sysctl program to interpret your kernfs. :-). mount -t portal /etc/kernel_portal.conf /kern :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 04:49:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24380 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24374; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:49:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19061; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:49:09 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA08867; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:48:40 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980604134839.09175@follo.net> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:48:40 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Mike Smith , Donn Miller Cc: "John S. Dyson" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling sources with "-O2 -m486 -pipe" References: <199806040546.WAA00663@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199806040546.WAA00663@antipodes.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 10:46:28PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 10:46:28PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > Some postings in DejaNews claim that the -mno-486 runs faster on a Pentium > > (than -m486). Other postings say just the opposite. > > -m486 optimises alignment for the '486 by padding. On the Pentium and > above alignment is not so significant, This is a very, very interesting statement. Unfortunately, it is also false. The _only_ thing I've found that affect PPro timing much is alignement, and alignment of inner loops can make a 50% speed difference. It caused me a lot of hassle until I found out about it ("Why the **** does changing that instruction, which is 20 instructions before the main loop, speed up things by 30%?") > and the padding wastes space in the cache and time for fetching and > discarding. Unless you intend to only run on a 486, it is generally > wrong to use it. What does it align to? PPro want alignment of the start of inner loops on a 16-byte boundary, IIRC... Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 07:27:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14267 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 07:27:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zam0.attnet.or.jp (ns.zama.attnet.or.jp [165.76.83.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14256 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 07:27:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stoneab@zam0.attnet.or.jp) Received: from zam0.attnet.or.jp (27.gate1.zama.attnet.or.jp [165.76.83.106]) by zam0.attnet.or.jp (8.8.8+Spin/3.6Wbeta7-CONS(11/21/97)) id XAA03182; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:27:52 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3576AEBF.C1B9B0D6@zam0.attnet.or.jp> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 23:27:11 +0900 From: "Alan B. Stone" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: HP DeskJet's Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I've read over every page in the book and online. I can't get the HP DeskJet 855C I have to print. When it does print it puts out postscript, not text. How can I correct the problem? Thanks, Blaine -- Alan B. Stone Senior Technical Representative Communications Technology Research Activity Japan Email: stoneab@zam0.attnet.or.jp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 08:28:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26730 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:28:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26549 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:27:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Spinner) with ESMTP id XAA24813; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:26:52 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199806041526.XAA24813@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Who broke the CVS repository? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 04:44:34 EST." Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 23:26:51 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Matthew D. Fuller" wrote: > I've just tried re-supping it 3 times, no change. > Came across this trying (note keyword) to do a make release: > U src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tDeque.exp > U src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tDeque.inp > U src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tFile.cc > U src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tFile.exp > cvs [checkout aborted]: EOF in key in RCS file > /home/cvs/src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tFile.inp,v > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > {/usr/src/release} root@mortis: % > > Looking at the file, it isn't an RCS file by any stretch; it's all data, > no revision information. > > 'Fess up ;) This is important.. Move the file out of the way but keep a copy in case. Let cvsup grab a new copy. If you've had local filesystem corruption, the timestamps and size flags will be an exact match with the server so it'll skip the file and no checksums will be exchanged (I think you can force this, but it'll slow you down a lot for the update). If you get a new corrupted copy, we're in trouble. :-] Where are you getting the files from? A mirror might be out of sync.. (Hmm, the master on freefall seems OK...) Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm Netplex Consulting To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 09:19:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06713 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mauswerks.net (root@ns.mauswerks.com [204.152.96.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06684 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:19:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from feral.com (root@gw100.feral.com [192.67.166.129]) by ns.mauswerks.net (8.8.0/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA24573; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:20:25 -0700 Received: from feral-gw (mjacob@gw100.feral.com [192.67.166.129]) by feral.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA10993; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:18:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3576C8E8.AB32C5@feral.com> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:18:48 -0700 From: Matthew Jacob Organization: Feral Software X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, port-i386@NetBSD.ORG, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG, woods@zeus.leitch.com Subject: Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78) References: <199806032134.OAA01436@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > > I have on my middle burner a environmental services driver to port > > into both NetBSD and FreeBSD (and possibly linux). It will manage > > both SES (SCSI Environmental Services) and SAF-TE (see http://www.safte.org). > > Environmental and power control issues are becoming big business it > seems. Starting at the top with DMI (www.dmtf.org) and going down, > there's a large model forming. Do you plan to work within this, or do > you have an alternative framework in mind? I hadn't gotten that far- but I hadn't charged ahead just for the reason that I know that this is grown very big very fast. The DTMF model may not address some large server system issues- I don't know it very well (I'll read the specs today or tomorrow). > The I2C thing has been somewhat of an issue for me - many PC > motherboards (eg. everything with a PII onboard) have an I2C variant > (SMB). Unfortunately, the SMB BIOS doesn't seem to be widely > implemented, so there's no precedent for a set of primitive bus > services there (only the SMB I/O in the PIIX4). There's a lot I2C supprt that is not BIOS managed. > > For your parametric retrieval, depending on the messaging style you > might want to consider: > > - DEVFS node (not really portable outside FreeBSD AFAIK). Yup. > - sysctl node (may be problematic if you want to dynamically create > nodes at runtime, unless you handle your own traversal). We have to plan for dynamic- if you support dynamic addition/deletion of devices, you must also plan for devices that manage environmental data as well. Let's say we handle (as we should and will) SCSI devices dynamically attaching and detaching- well, there you'll have environmental devices coming and going. > - socket, cf. PF_ROUTE. This would involve creating a new event > reporting facility (PF_EVENT) and assorted infrastructure. > > It sounds like you're looking at two of a set of environmental services > (others eg. S.M.A.R.T.) which should be coordinated within a unified > framework. DMI offers this, although at the cost of some (!) extra > complexity. > > I'd be very interested to hear others' opinions on the relevance of DMI > and the work of the DMTF. Note especially the advanced state of DMI : > SNMP mapping techniques they recommend, if you are concerned about SNMP > interoperability. Yes- this may be the way to go, although I had a more practical and immediate concern about how to get support in, even partial support, as quickly as possible with an eventual goal to have a unified management schema. Clearly this thing is much bigger than I thought. I would prefer an ioctl interface since that eases porting across all the unix variants (they all have ioctl- only FreeBSD has DEVFS, only *BSD has sysctl, only Linux has that sexy procfs way to get info)- but this may in fact be not that important if you add an additional user layer that handles the collection of data and presents objects upward. The amount of data involved is small, and the real time constraints are not onerous. One of the implications then of doing this is that we don't: a) have to agree how to collect the information (from platform to platform)- that's for that platform's implib to deal with. b) The actual kinds of data sources can be ad hoc and don't *have* to present unified information objects- the implib can translate. Hmmm- I think I've argued myself around to *not* having a unified set of services at a lower level- typically device driver writer's reaction- punt it to a higer level... I'll mull over all of this a bit more and see whether I can propose something more- but really, truly, I'll be putting in the SES/SAF-TE driver very soon- I need it for some other projects! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 09:23:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07832 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:23:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07805 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:23:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA19760; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:21:24 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:21:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" Reply-To: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Peter Wemm cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Who broke the CVS repository? In-Reply-To: <199806041526.XAA24813@spinner.netplex.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, Peter Wemm wrote: > This is important.. Move the file out of the way but keep a copy in case. > Let cvsup grab a new copy. If you've had local filesystem corruption, > the timestamps and size flags will be an exact match with the server so > it'll skip the file and no checksums will be exchanged (I think you can > force this, but it'll slow you down a lot for the update). > > If you get a new corrupted copy, we're in trouble. :-] > > Where are you getting the files from? A mirror might be out of sync.. > (Hmm, the master on freefall seems OK...) Getting files from: Name: opus.cts.cwu.edu Address: 198.104.92.71 Aliases: cvsup.freebsd.org I did try blowing it away and re-supping when first it happened, and did that twice, to no avail. Whoah.... OK, I resup, and it's fine; it's a nice RCS file. I start the make release, and it gets up to checking it out again and fails. I'll read in the new contents at the end of this mail, after my outrageously huge .sig, along with the version that I get clean of a cvsup. Something in the make seems to be doing funky things... > Cheers, > -Peter > -- > Peter Wemm Netplex Consulting *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* /home/cvs/src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tFile.inp,v after make release ---------------------- entities should be displayed\n" << "[X] displays the precision of a given value\n" << "[*] indicates that the full precision is not used for coding reasons\n"; Fix a; checkb("0 [16]",a); Fix b = .5; checkb(".5 [16]",b); Fix c(17,-.5); checkb("-.5 [17]",c); Fix d(33,.1); checkb(".1 [33]",d); Fix e = c; checkb("-.5 [17]",e); checkb(".3 [16]",a = .3); checkb(".5 [16]",a = b); checkb(".1 [16]",a = d); checkb(".1 [33*]",d = a); checkb("-.2 [17]",c = -.2); checkb("-.5 [17]",e); check(".1 [16] == .1 [33*]",a == d); d = .1; check(".1 [16] == .1 [33]",a == d); check(".1 [33] != .5 [16]",d != b); check(".1 [33] > .5 [16]",d > b); check(".1 [33] <= -.2 [17]",d <= c); e = .5; check("1073741824",mantissa(e).a --------------------------- /home/cvs/src/contrib/libg++/libg++/tests/tFile.inp,v after cvsup --------------------------- head 1.1; branch 1.1.1; access; symbols RELENG_2_2_6_RELEASE:1.1.1.1 RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE:1.1.1.1 RELENG_2_2_2_RELEASE:1.1.1.1 RELENG_2_2_1_RELEASE:1.1.1.1 RELENG_2_2_0_RELEASE:1.1.1.1 RELENG_2_2:1.1.1.1.0.2 RELENG_2_2_BP:1.1.1.1 v2_7_2:1.1.1.1 FSF:1.1.1; locks; strict; comment @# @; expand @o@; 1.1 date 96.10.03.21.33.56; author peter; state Exp; branches 1.1.1.1; next ; 1.1.1.1 date 96.10.03.21.33.56; author peter; state Exp; branches; next ; desc @@ 1.1 log @Initial revision @ text @a 123 4567 89012 123.456 -1.2e-2 1 2 3 4 5 @ 1.1.1.1 log @Import of raw libg++-2.7.2, but in a very cut-down form. There is still a small amount of unused stuff (by the bmakefiles to follow), but it isn't much and seems harmless enough. @ text @@ -------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 09:51:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13165 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:51:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA13135; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:50:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA24630; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:50:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA02787; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:50:51 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:50:51 -0600 Message-Id: <199806041650.KAA02787@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806040744.CAA00761@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199806040536.WAA00588@antipodes.cdrom.com> <199806040744.CAA00761@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Again, reducing to the absurd. Why add yet another non-file like > file??? Because that's the Unix way. :) > If you want to emulate the NT registry with a filesystem, that is > okay with me :-). Instead, we emulate the NT registry directly, w/out the filesystem that people can easily browse. :( > One cool thing about sysctl vs. kernfs type schemes, is that for > the kernfs to be useful for shell scripts, you have to do the > ascii to binary and vice versa conversions (assuming that the kernel > isn't doing brain-dead ascii/binary/ascii conversions.) You have to do that in your shell scripts anyway. You have to know what data types are coming from the system, since everything is read as a string in the first place (and you have to parse out the sysctl stuff, etc...) > sysctl has a usable command interface. It is very easy to use > the sysctl system calls and/or library routines. Who cares if you > can't mmap it? That wouldn't make much sense anyway. For byte-counters, > there is alot more good that you can do with the wasted vnodes that > would be utilized by such a filesystem :-). Byte counters shouldn't be in sysctl. 'sysctl' == System Control, not system monitoring. This isn't (and shouldn't be) an SNMP system, which if you've ever had to use is a nightmare to work with w/out a huge document explaining all of your MIB's, which vary from vendor to vendor. Sysctl is exactly that but worse, since there is *NO* set of MIB (nodes) that are standard, so every FreeBSD user has to become a sysctl expert and memorize the hierarchy in order to fully utilize it. In other words, *MORE* esoteric stuff to remember, making FreeBSD/unix that much harder to administer. Do I have a better solution Jordan asks? The FS interface is *harder* for the kernel developer, but easier for the administrator. Nate's #1 rule of programming complexity: "You can't reduce complexity of a problem below a certain point. You can move it around, but at some point it has to be somewhere." This means that *someone* is going to have to deal with it, and the fact of the matter is that if we want unix to have more users then it should be the developers who have to work a bit harder to do it. (BTW, I have a corollary to the above rule that states "Just because a problem is complex doesn't mean it can't be simplified, or that all of the complexity is necessary." ;) Doing a job poorly or making the users memorize esoteric namespaces just for the sake of 'checking off a feature box' is not doing the user-base any favors. Anyone motivated enough to figure it out how to configure a specific machine may like you, but the general user population will never benefit from that work since they don't have the time or ability to figure it out. In other words, you'll end up working really hard for 1-2 sites, and no one else will aprreciate/use the resulting hard-work put in. For a volunteer project, this is a shame. :( Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 10:48:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22317 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:48:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adinet.com.uy (suncueva.adinet.com.uy [206.99.44.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA22294; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ang@adinet.com.uy) Received: from angelo by adinet.com.uy (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA20195; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:39:57 +0300 Message-ID: <3576DE84.ED153D95@adinet.com.uy> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 14:51:00 -0300 From: Angelo Nardone X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Transparent packet diversion: Where is it? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3575DFDB.2781E494@whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > A month or so ago, someone announced a package that > did redirection of packets to arbitrary places. > > I remember the comment > "it's wierd seeing all those foreign adresses in the netstat listing". > > kind of like the Linux transproxy code I guess. > > if ANYONE has a pointer to that code I'd apreciate it. > I've done every search I can think of on the mail archives.. > > julian > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message I didn't remember that, but if you want redirect software download http://cheops.anu.edu.au/~avalon/ip-filter.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 10:50:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22561 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:50:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22435; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:49:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13717; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:49:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd013683; Thu Jun 4 10:49:45 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA01040; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:49:35 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806041749.KAA01040@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... To: jonny@jonny.eng.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:49:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@dingo.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806040144.WAA03920@roma.coe.ufrj.br> from "Joao Carlos Mendes Luis" at Jun 3, 98 10:44:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Then, /dev/kmem is bogus ? Yes. As anyone who has ever had to recompile libkvm and ps to get back to where they were before an "upgrade" can tell you... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 10:59:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24726 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:59:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24694 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:59:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00491; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806041652.JAA00491@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mbouget@club-internet.fr Subject: Re: tftp in bootp process In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 08:21:47 +0200." <199806040621.IAA08871@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:52:38 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > tftp is not used anymore in the diskless boot process. Unfortunately the > > > documentation (especially, the handbook) has not been updated. The > > > best source of documentation is the netboot(8) manpage. > > > > Ah, last time I looked at the netboot sources, it still fetched and > > read the configuration file. The netboot(8) manpage was stolen from > > on this you are right, but the tftp stuff is only a relic of the past > and probably has been left in for backward compatibility only. In my > local copy of the sources I have #ifdef'd out this section of code > for a long time. Your sources are obviously not in general use. 8) > > NetBSD and never updated. It doesn't describe the (primitive, Sun > > -inspired) NetBSD diskless environment very well, and its applicability > > to FreeBSD is even less. I quote from netboot(8) just for perspective: > > > > In phase 2, the boot program loads a kernel. Operation in this phase de- > > pends on the design of the boot program. (The design described here is > > the one used by Sun and NetBSD/hp300.) The boot program: > > > > I can't imagine what this manpage is doing apart from confusing people. > > Which manpage are you looking at ? The one attached below is from > a stock 2.2.6-RELEASE . Bizarre. I was reading the one on my laptop, which is running -current as of a month or so ago. However you're quite correct - the netboot manpage elsewhere is completely different; MHA. Weird. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 11:06:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26629 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:06:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA26459 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:06:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA09656; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:27:56 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199806041627.SAA09656@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: tftp in bootp process To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:27:55 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mbouget@club-internet.fr In-Reply-To: <199806041652.JAA00491@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Jun 4, 98 09:52:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Which manpage are you looking at ? The one attached below is from > > a stock 2.2.6-RELEASE . > > Bizarre. I was reading the one on my laptop, which is running -current > as of a month or so ago. However you're quite correct - the netboot > manpage elsewhere is completely different; MHA. Weird. your signature was never more appropriate :) > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 11:09:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27269 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:09:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27198; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:09:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14993; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:09:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd014975; Thu Jun 4 11:09:09 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01972; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:09:05 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806041809.LAA01972@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:09:05 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jonny@jonny.eng.br, mike@dingo.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806040441.XAA00768@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jun 3, 98 11:41:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Think of this issue: > When writing a message to a /kernfs file to modify a function, > do you want to implement a full and general interface for partial > message transfers, etc??? Sysctl is pseudo-message based, and > operations are complete within themselves. I think the answer to this question may be: Yes. Once. > Also, kernfs implies > a filesystem, and the associated VFS stuff, while it isn't needed > with sysctl. You don't need vnodes, or any of the other cruft > to implement the unnecessary state for sysctl, while filesystems > have to implement all kinds of things... They don't have to. That's just the VFS API FreeBSD currently chooses to have. John H. certainly didn't design it to be that way. Speaking of which, is it stable enough for people without commit privs to wade back into the pool and start flinging patches yet? It seems that you had some SMP patches that you wanted to flesh out and commit, and Peter has announced some NFS patches, and Michael has yet to commit his vput() changes, and that it would be a good idea to wait on them before slogging back in to restart work on the reconstruction... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 11:20:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29898 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:20:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29861 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:20:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18869; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:20:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd018848; Thu Jun 4 11:20:12 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02386; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:20:04 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806041820.LAA02386@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG To: dk+@ua.net Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:20:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: barry@Lustig.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, serge@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <199806040614.XAA11387@dog.farm.org> from "Dmitry Kohmanyuk" at Jun 3, 98 11:14:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > switch (select(_rpc_dtablesize(), &readfds, NULL, NULL, > > (struct timeval *)0)) { This code is wrong. You are not permitted to pass an initial value to select which is larger than sizeof(readfds). This is the same coding error that LDAP and ACAP had, except that they were explicitly calling getdtablesize(2) or using the sysconf return for _SC_OPEN_MAX. Both of these are, of course, bogus as hell, and will result in you accessing memory off the stack (unless you define FD_SETSIZE very large before including sys/types.h). Some of this memory will have non-zero bits in it, and some of those bits will, when dereferenced into kernel address space, appear to have data pending and/or will appear to be attempts to select on bad file descriptors. > what bothers me here is how come that select() returns -1 and yet > errno != EINTR. According to man page, it should be then one of > EBADF or EINVAL, none of which can occur... One thing that would help is if you were to tell us what *is* returned, rather than what is *not*. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 11:28:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01368 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:28:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01305 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:27:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (root@greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23967; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:27:24 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04764; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:27:11 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <199806041827.UAA04764@greenpeace.grondar.za> To: dg@root.com cc: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 20:27:10 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman wrote: > > Maybe I lost some incoming emails, but is there any plans/whatever > > for FreeBSD BOF or whatever, at annual USENIX conference this month? > > Who will be visiting there? > > About half of the core team, I believe. Me, Jordan, Justin, Poul-Henning, > just to name a few. Yes, there will be a FreeBSD BoF. I'll be there (from ZA). M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 11:30:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02250 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:30:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02122 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:30:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11511; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:30:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd011437; Thu Jun 4 11:30:10 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02825; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:30:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806041830.LAA02825@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG To: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:30:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dk+@ua.net, barry@lustig.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, serge@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <199806040855.BAA06987@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> from "Don Lewis" at Jun 4, 98 01:55:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, there's a call to perror(). What does it say errno is? My > suspicion is that it is ECHILD. My somewhat dated copy of portmap.c > has the following code: > > void > reap() > { > while (wait3((int *)NULL, WNOHANG, (struct rusage *)NULL) > 0); > } > > If portmap receives two signals closely spaced in time, the first > signal will interrupt the select() call, and if reap() is called > after select() has set errno and returned, the wait3() call in reap() > will stomp errno. I've fixed similar problems by saving errno at the > beginning of a signal handler and restoring it at the end. I'm not > sure what ANSI and POSIX have to say about this and I don't know if > you can do this if you are using threads and have a per-thread errno, > but it has worked for me. Which reminds me. Someone needs to fix the "siginterrupt" man page. I would, but I think it is FreeBSD that is broken, not the man page, and that by default, system calls *should* be restarted after a signal is caught. I find it utterly bogus that I have to springle the bejesus out of my code for while()'s and tests for "EINTR" and manually restart all of my system calls. Gruds, if I wanted that, I load System V on my box instead of BSD. In The Good Old Days(tm), it wasn't an option; if you wanted EINTR type behaviour, you did a setjmp before the call you wanted the behaviour on, and like a decent, God-fearing BSD'er, you called longjmp from the signal handler to prevent the call from being restarted. Just think how much easier the POSIX threading would be; the user space pthreads should default to restart behaviour for calls, and have a seperate handler that queues signals to the schedluer. [ ...the crusty old BSD hermit slinks back to his cave... ] Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 11:44:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05252 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:44:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05185 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:44:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00808; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806041737.KAA00808@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mbouget@club-internet.fr Subject: Re: tftp in bootp process In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 08:21:47 +0200." <199806040621.IAA08871@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 10:37:24 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > NetBSD and never updated. It doesn't describe the (primitive, Sun > > -inspired) NetBSD diskless environment very well, and its applicability > > to FreeBSD is even less. I quote from netboot(8) just for perspective: Actually, this quote is from diskless(8), the place where anyone with a Sun background is going to go. This is the source of my confusion, and this manpage should either be updated or shot. > > In phase 2, the boot program loads a kernel. Operation in this phase de- > > pends on the design of the boot program. (The design described here is > > the one used by Sun and NetBSD/hp300.) The boot program: Sorry about the mixup. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 11:49:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06760 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:49:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06694; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:49:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02023; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:49:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806041849.NAA02023@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806041650.KAA02787@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 10:50:51 am" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:49:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > In other words, *MORE* esoteric stuff to remember, making FreeBSD/unix > that much harder to administer. > kernfs is just as esoteric. > > Do I have a better solution Jordan asks? The FS interface is *harder* > for the kernel developer, but easier for the administrator. > Little or no difference... How many times do you need to do a sysctl??? Sysctl is meant as a peek/poke into the kernel. Of course, the file-person's ultimate scheme '/dev/kmem' is better??? Not!!! > > Doing a job poorly or making the users memorize esoteric namespaces just > for the sake of 'checking off a feature box' is not doing the user-base > any favors. Anyone motivated enough to figure it out how to configure a > specific machine may like you, but the general user population will > never benefit from that work since they don't have the time or ability > to figure it out. In other words, you'll end up working really hard for > 1-2 sites, and no one else will aprreciate/use the resulting hard-work > put in. For a volunteer project, this is a shame. :( > Sorry, /kernfs is just as esoteric. The thing that you are complaining about is missing documentation on the hierarchy (filesystems don't provide that automatically.) However, our sysctl does have such a scheme (but isn't fully implemented.) It is *sad* when people see a scheme and adopt it blindly and forever. This is the "everything is a file" syndrome, oops, "everything is a hammer" :-). We'll be staying with sysctl until someone invents a kernfs that is just as usable, flexible and backwards compatible, with the documentation hooks. Hint... Hint... -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 11:57:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08889; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:57:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA17260; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma017258; Thu Jun 4 11:56:20 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA23340; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199806041856.LAA23340@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: netboot bug In-Reply-To: <199806041032.NAA07952@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> from Sergey Shkonda at "Jun 4, 98 01:32:02 pm" To: serg@bcs.zp.ua (Sergey Shkonda) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: phk@FreeBSD.ORG, tegge@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sergey Shkonda writes: > There are ERROR in tftp implementation in netboot program: > TFTP_ACK must be sent to another port, not a default TFTP one. > > path: sys/i386/boot/netboot > > > --- main.c.orig Thu Jun 4 13:24:06 1998 > +++ main.c Thu Jun 4 13:23:52 1998 > @@ -464,6 +464,7 @@ > return(0); > } /* ACK PACKET */ > if (tr->opcode != ntohs(TFTP_DATA)) return(0); > + osocket = ntohs(tr->udp.src); > tp.opcode = htons(TFTP_ACK); > tp.u.ack.block = tr->u.data.block; > udp_transmit(arptable[ARP_SERVER].ipaddr, isocket, > Sergey- Please file a bug report including your patch using send-pr(1). That way your patch won't get lost. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 12:02:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10203 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:02:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10098; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:01:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02065; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:59:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806041859.NAA02065@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Recompiling sources with "-O2 -m486 -pipe" In-Reply-To: <19980604134839.09175@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Jun 4, 98 01:48:40 pm" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:59:21 -0500 (EST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, dmm125@bellatlantic.net, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund said: > > The _only_ thing I've found that affect PPro timing much is > alignement, and alignment of inner loops can make a 50% speed > difference. It caused me a lot of hassle until I found out about it > ("Why the **** does changing that instruction, which is 20 > instructions before the main loop, speed up things by 30%?") > PPro is also sensitive to dirty cache lines. It is best to check a data item before storing to it (for large transfers, like bzero.) Careful scheduling can make some difference also, but the effort is most often not worth the returns. My local versions of swtch.s are carefully scheduled, and they do make a difference, but not much. The PPro can reorder instructions very aggressively, and the order of long:1:1 isn't necessary, since the processor can reorder those very effectively. The P5 is less forgiving. I have spent many hours trying to make a P6 go faster, and it is really hard, and not generally worthwhile. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 12:04:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11106 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:04:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateman.zeus.leitch.com (gateman.zeus.leitch.com [204.187.61.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10919 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:04:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from woods@tap.zeus.leitch.com) Received: from zeus.leitch.com (tap.zeus.leitch.com [204.187.61.10]) by gateman.zeus.leitch.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/1.0) with ESMTP id PAA14391; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brain.zeus.leitch.com (brain.zeus.leitch.com [204.187.61.32]) by zeus.leitch.com (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.0) with ESMTP id PAA01231; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from woods@localhost) by brain.zeus.leitch.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27862; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:03:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from woods@tap.zeus.leitch.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806041903.PAA27862@brain.zeus.leitch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: woods@zeus.leitch.com (Greg A. Woods) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78) In-Reply-To: Matthew Jacob's message of "Thu, June 4, 1998 09:18:48 -0700" regarding "Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78)" id <3576C8E8.AB32C5@feral.com> References: <199806032134.OAA01436@dingo.cdrom.com> <3576C8E8.AB32C5@feral.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.45 under Emacs 20.2.1 Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG, woods@zeus.leitch.com (Greg A. Woods) Organization: Planix, Inc.; Toronto, Ontario; Canada Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ On Thu, June 4, 1998 at 09:18:48 (-0700), Matthew Jacob wrote: ] > Subject: Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78) > > > - sysctl node (may be problematic if you want to dynamically create > > nodes at runtime, unless you handle your own traversal). > > We have to plan for dynamic- if you support dynamic addition/deletion > of devices, you must also plan for devices that manage environmental > data as well. Let's say we handle (as we should and will) SCSI devices > dynamically attaching and detaching- well, there you'll have > environmental devices coming and going. *If* it's possible to come up with a high enough (but not too high!) level of abstraction for hardware/environmental monitoring (i.e. a real MIB-style definition that's not device or "vendor" or platform specific!), then it should be possible to have the nodes available at all times, even if its not 100% enabled and usable. > Yes- this may be the way to go, although I had a more practical and > immediate concern about how to get support in, even partial support, > as quickly as possible with an eventual goal to have a unified management > schema. Clearly this thing is much bigger than I thought. My goal is *definitely* to get minimal support in and working fast. I'd like to start down a path that would be useful for a much more complete hardware and environmental management subsystem though. > I would prefer an ioctl interface since that eases porting across all > the unix variants (they all have ioctl- only FreeBSD has DEVFS, only > *BSD has sysctl, only Linux has that sexy procfs way to get info)- but > this may in fact be not that important if you add an additional user > layer that handles the collection of data and presents objects upward. > The amount of data involved is small, and the real time constraints > are not onerous. Sysctl is really just a more structured form of ioctl interface from a design perspective, and of course it's not really tied to any one hardware device. If you conceptually replace the '.'s in the sysctl naming scheme with '/'s, and mount it as a filesystem then suddenly your access options open up to the infinite. Even now that I have a tiny inkling of what DEVFS is, I still don't see what it has to do with all of this -- it seems like something on the side of the device driver structure, not a primary method of abstraction for monitoring of external parameters, setting alarm limits, etc. It sounds kinda cool, but as you say it's unique to FreeBSD. All the *BSDs have kernfs. The linux procfs is essentially a merge of features from the *BSD procfs and kernfs, with even more features added on as well. You can even do kernfs in AT&T SysVr3.2, and certainly on SysVr4. Virtual filesystems are possibly even an older concept than sysctl, and certainly far more widely spread (and IMNSHO far more elegant and useful). The most important benefit of virtual fileystems is their ability to easily support very good backward and forward compatability, something that's impossible with ioctl(2) and hard with sysctl(3) [though perhaps not quite impossible with FreeBSD's __sysctl(2)]. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 12:07:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11876 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:07:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11735 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:06:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02116; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:06:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806041906.OAA02116@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: HP DeskJet's In-Reply-To: <3576AEBF.C1B9B0D6@zam0.attnet.or.jp> from "Alan B. Stone" at "Jun 4, 98 11:27:11 pm" To: stoneab@zam0.attnet.or.jp (Alan B. Stone) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:06:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alan B. Stone said: > Hi, > > I've read over every page in the book and online. I can't get the HP > DeskJet 855C I have to print. When it does print it puts out > postscript, not text. How can I correct the problem? Thanks, > ghostscript can convert from postscript to DJ language. I am using an HP890, and very happy with it. Caveat: it uses lots of ink :-(. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 12:12:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13126 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:12:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12908; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:11:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA25695; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:11:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA03447; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:10:58 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:10:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199806041910.NAA03447@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806041849.NAA02023@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199806041650.KAA02787@mt.sri.com> <199806041849.NAA02023@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > In other words, *MORE* esoteric stuff to remember, making FreeBSD/unix > > that much harder to administer. > > > kernfs is just as esoteric. > > Do I have a better solution Jordan asks? The FS interface is *harder* > > for the kernel developer, but easier for the administrator. > > > > Little or no difference... How many times do you need to do a > sysctl??? At the rate they are being added to the system, often. They are used about 8-12 times now, and based on the code that has been added and code being proposed, at least a dozen more times. And, those dozen items are potentially different on each type of computer I have, so if I have an installation of 6 FreeBSD boxes with different configurations, I may have to memorize/deal with about 4-5 dozen different 'sysctl' variables. > > Doing a job poorly or making the users memorize esoteric namespaces just > > for the sake of 'checking off a feature box' is not doing the user-base > > any favors. Anyone motivated enough to figure it out how to configure a > > specific machine may like you, but the general user population will > > never benefit from that work since they don't have the time or ability > > to figure it out. In other words, you'll end up working really hard for > > 1-2 sites, and no one else will aprreciate/use the resulting hard-work > > put in. For a volunteer project, this is a shame. :( > Sorry, /kernfs is just as esoteric. The thing that you are complaining > about is missing documentation on the hierarchy (filesystems don't provide > that automatically.) Sure they do. It's more obvious what something does based on it's hierarchy, and it's easier to figure it out because I can simply/easily modify it. And, I'm not stating that it's to be taken to the polar extreme either, but that it's a *better* solution than sysctl. It's still not the best solution either, but extending a poorer solution is certainly a step in the wrong direction. I agree with Bruce in that programs are generally a better way of configuring things. It's obvious if you know the system what needs to be run, and how to get help on it. It also makes documenting things easier, which sysctl does not. People already hate to document, and making it hard to figure out where/how to document things just makes it that much less likely to be documented. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 12:19:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15063 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:19:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (FxMAM5XWqbj/j2R6bzWarD4Cug2SZcJJ@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA14873; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:18:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.66] ([8qw8OYe1cJybPZbO4dOVR3dM53MkvmWc]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0yhfWP-0006Jn-00; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:17:57 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0yhfWN-0000kp-00; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:17:55 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:17:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams "Re: kernfs/procfs questions..." (Jun 4, 10:50am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Nate Williams , dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... Cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jun 4, 10:50am, Nate Williams wrote: } Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... > > > sysctl has a usable command interface. It is very easy to use > > the sysctl system calls and/or library routines. Who cares if you > > can't mmap it? That wouldn't make much sense anyway. For byte-counters, > > there is alot more good that you can do with the wasted vnodes that > > would be utilized by such a filesystem :-). > > Byte counters shouldn't be in sysctl. 'sysctl' == System Control, not > system monitoring. This isn't (and shouldn't be) an SNMP system, which > if you've ever had to use is a nightmare to work with w/out a huge > document explaining all of your MIB's, which vary from vendor to vendor. I think it is precisely small pieces of information like this that belong in sysctl. "sysctl kern.iface.ed0.ierrs" seems a better and more natural interface than "cat /kern/iface/ed0/ierrs" for example. If sysctl doesn't support this kind of dynamic registering/deregistering of attributes I think spending time fixing that would be more useful than working on kernfs. > Sysctl is exactly that but worse, since there is *NO* set of MIB (nodes) > that are standard, so every FreeBSD user has to become a sysctl expert > and memorize the hierarchy in order to fully utilize it. > > In other words, *MORE* esoteric stuff to remember, making FreeBSD/unix > that much harder to administer. What makes you think that kernfs is any easier to use that sysctl without documentation? sysctl -a can hardly be more/less descriptive than find /kern. If you think documentation is the problem then documentation is the solution, not kernfs. > Do I have a better solution Jordan asks? The FS interface is *harder* > for the kernel developer, but easier for the administrator. I don't think its appreciably harder for the administrator to use sysctl vs kernfs, granted there is some difference, but it's not significant. The complexity difference in programming for kernfs vs sysctl is likely to be much greater though. > Nate's #1 rule of programming complexity: > "You can't reduce complexity of a problem below a certain point. You > can move it around, but at some point it has to be somewhere." Agreed, but my interpretation of this rule is that sysctl has more or less reached the minimum complexity level of a kernel <-> userland configuration and communication interface, further work would not reduce this complexity level significantly but would be a lot of imho wasted work. [snip] > This means that *someone* is going to have to deal with it, and the fact > of the matter is that if we want unix to have more users then it should > be the developers who have to work a bit harder to do it. To be honest, I think the average newbie or person evaluating FreeBSD would appreciate a GUI administration interface orders of magnitude more than a kernfs :) > (BTW, I have a corollary to the above rule that states "Just because a > problem is complex doesn't mean it can't be simplified, or that all of > the complexity is necessary." ;) Rule 2: Simple things aren't always as complex as they look. (UNIX) Corollary 2: Complex things aren't always as simple as they look. (NT) Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 12:25:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16590 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:25:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16537; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:25:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01048; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806041819.LAA01048@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 13:10:58 MDT." <199806041910.NAA03447@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 11:19:56 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I agree with Bruce in that programs are generally a better way of > configuring things. It's obvious if you know the system what needs to > be run, and how to get help on it. I should point out that I basically agree with your point here. But my interest is in access methods to be used by these programs, rather than the programs themselves (hence LDAP, sysctl/kernfs, etc). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 12:28:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17391 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:28:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17193; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:27:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA25832; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA03558; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:27:47 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:27:47 -0600 Message-Id: <199806041927.NAA03558@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806041920.OAA02171@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199806041910.NAA03447@mt.sri.com> <199806041920.OAA02171@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John S. Dyson writes: > > And, I'm not stating that it's to be taken to the polar extreme either, > > but that it's a *better* solution than sysctl. It's still not the best > > solution either, but extending a poorer solution is certainly a step > > in the wrong direction. > > > > I agree with Bruce in that programs are generally a better way of > > configuring things. It's obvious if you know the system what needs to > > be run, and how to get help on it. It also makes documenting things > > easier, which sysctl does not. People already hate to document, and > > making it hard to figure out where/how to document things just makes it > > that much less likely to be documented. > > I disagree for easily one simple reason: sysctl affords an internal > documentation scheme that isn't a hack. Only to a developer, not to a user. Here's some of your log messages for sysctl's that mean something to you, but don't mean a thing to a normal user. vm_param.h vm.pageout_algorithm=???? vm_zone.c Add exposure of some vm_zone allocation stats by sysctl. And these would be, and would help me by? Where should they be documented for the user? man 9 tuning? Are they specific to the zone allocation? I'm not saying that kernfs would make this easier, but if I had a tuning program that allowed me to tune it (man 8 vmtune), then it would be *better* documented. Maybe I'm not screaming so much for the implementation, but the interface and the way that new sysctl are added w/out any regard to documentation/accessing them. :( Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 12:29:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17545 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:29:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17490; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:28:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA02375; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd002369; Thu Jun 4 19:20:18 1998 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:20:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Transparent packet diversion: Where is it? In-Reply-To: <199806041136.EAA22523@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG that wasn't it, though it does the job it's not what I remember being announced. On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, Darren Reed wrote: > In some mail from Julian Elischer, sie said: > > > > A month or so ago, someone announced a package that > > did redirection of packets to arbitrary places. > > IP Filter. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 12:46:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20434 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dog.farm.org (gw-hssi-2.farm.org [209.66.103.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20397 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:46:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dog.farm.org!dk) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id MAA10419; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:45:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199806041945.MAA10419@dog.farm.org> To: dhh@androcles.com (Duane H. Hesser) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netscape 4.05 us Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Organization: FARM Computing Association Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you wrote: > Try > https://www.fortify.net/ > (or) > http://www.fortify.net/ > for a kit which will patch many versions of Netscape (including at least > the 4.04 and 4.05 FreeBSD versions) to provide strong encryption capabilities. Hmm... isn't it any better than #!/usr/bin/perl -0pi s/BITS:.*/$_=$&;y,a-z, ,;s, {4}$,true,gm;s, 512,2048,;$_/es which works just great (at least on FreeBSD mozilla 4.0x binaries?) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 12:53:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21682 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:53:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21614; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:53:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mns@pobox.com) Received: from markspad (dynamic61.pm02.san-jose.best.com [209.24.164.125]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id MAB17978; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806041951.MAB17978@proxy4.ba.best.com> X-Sender: mns@ (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 12:49:14 -0700 To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG From: Mark Shepard Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... Cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jonny@jonny.eng.br, mike@dingo.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806040744.CAA00761@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199806040536.WAA00588@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been a lurker on this list so far, but in a past life I implemented a VFS-like system for NT & 95 (with a sysctl-like management interface), so here's my .02$: There seems to be a conflict between the sysadmins (who want to be able to configure everything with cat/echo) and the applicance/embedded systems people (who want a small kernel and simple consistent programming interfaces). procfs/kernfs is essentially a kernel API in disguise. Considered as an API, sysctl seems "cleaner" and lighter-weight than procfs/kernfs -- there's no need to format/parse ASCII, no need to generate column headers, and FreeBSD's sysctl provides data in a more uniform format than Linux's procfs. Actually, I'm bothered more by the Linux implementation of procfs than by the question of kernfs/procfs vs. sysctl. IMHO, if procfs/kernfs is to be used for more complex data as Linux has done, the format of tables and hierarchical lists should be standardized and a library of parsing routines provided. Hey, perhaps the kernel should just output & accept HTML? After all, HTML/SGML provides _structured_ text and there are pleny of HTML parsing libraries... I can see it now -- HTML forms direct from the kernel. Now that'd be easy to configure :-) Also, no one's mentioned Localization yet -- all the column headers & other fixed strings in the Linux procfs are in English. Translating these to other languages might break programs which read procfs (column positions might change, etc.) So procfs doesn't magically remove the need for a UI front-end program to view config. variables, unless you ignore localization. Regards, Mark Shepard mns@pobox.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 13:13:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA24918 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:13:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01291; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806041908.MAA01291@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Matthew Jacob cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG, woods@zeus.leitch.com Subject: Re: hardware monitor device drivers / kernel support (eg. LM78) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:18:48 PDT." <3576C8E8.AB32C5@feral.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 12:08:28 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith wrote: > > Environmental and power control issues are becoming big business it > > seems. Starting at the top with DMI (www.dmtf.org) and going down, > > there's a large model forming. Do you plan to work within this, or do > > you have an alternative framework in mind? > > I hadn't gotten that far- but I hadn't charged ahead just for the reason > that I know that this is grown very big very fast. The DTMF model may > not address some large server system issues- I don't know it very well > (I'll read the specs today or tomorrow). That'd be more like "and"; there are a lot of words there. 8) > > The I2C thing has been somewhat of an issue for me - many PC > > motherboards (eg. everything with a PII onboard) have an I2C variant > > (SMB). Unfortunately, the SMB BIOS doesn't seem to be widely > > implemented, so there's no precedent for a set of primitive bus > > services there (only the SMB I/O in the PIIX4). > > There's a lot I2C supprt that is not BIOS managed. Understood; there's also a lot of platforms where there are no BIOS services per se. I think I should have been clearer there insofar as the point I was attempting to make was that there seems to be no winning standard for accessing environmental data. > > - sysctl node (may be problematic if you want to dynamically create > > nodes at runtime, unless you handle your own traversal). > > We have to plan for dynamic- if you support dynamic addition/deletion > of devices, you must also plan for devices that manage environmental > data as well. Let's say we handle (as we should and will) SCSI devices > dynamically attaching and detaching- well, there you'll have > environmental devices coming and going. Yes; and dynamism includes boot-time as well as run-time. This is prettymuch a given. > Yes- this may be the way to go, although I had a more practical and > immediate concern about how to get support in, even partial support, > as quickly as possible with an eventual goal to have a unified > management schema. Clearly this thing is much bigger than I thought. No kidding. I have been watching the DMTF for over 12 months now, and they show no signs of flagging. It may have something to do with the undeniable appeal that "lower TCO" and "increased accountability" has to people in the managerial arena. I feel that it's important not to lose sight of this, as failure to perform in this area will instantly disqualify you from many major markets. > I would prefer an ioctl interface since that eases porting across all > the unix variants (they all have ioctl- only FreeBSD has DEVFS, only > *BSD has sysctl, only Linux has that sexy procfs way to get info)- but > this may in fact be not that important if you add an additional user > layer that handles the collection of data and presents objects upward. > The amount of data involved is small, and the real time constraints > are not onerous. The preferred method for moving data out of kernel space is likely to vary by platform; even if you were to standardise on the in-kernel side of that interface it would be advantageous, eg. +-------+-------+-------+-------+ parameter access API | prm 1 | prm 2 | prm 3 | prm 4 | +-------+-------+-------+-------+ parameter access lib | platform dependant | +===============================+ parameter im/export | platform dependant | +-------------------------------+ parameter abstraction | platform dependant | +-------+-------+-------+-------+ parameter collection | dev 1 | dev 2 | dev 3 | dev 4 | +-------+-------+-------+-------+ I/O abstraction | platform/machine dependant | +-------+-------+-------+-------+ hardware | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | +-------+-------+-------+-------+ > One of the implications then of doing this is that we don't: > > a) have to agree how to collect the information (from platform > to platform)- that's for that platform's implib to deal with. Yup. > b) The actual kinds of data sources can be ad hoc and don't > *have* to present unified information objects- the implib > can translate. Yes, although I would tend to expect that the given platforms are likely to want a unified mechanism for parameter export. > Hmmm- I think I've argued myself around to *not* having a unified > set of services at a lower level- typically device driver writer's > reaction- punt it to a higer level... 8) > I'll mull over all of this a bit more and see whether I can propose > something more- but really, truly, I'll be putting in the SES/SAF-TE > driver very soon- I need it for some other projects! Not unreasonable. I don't think that any of this is going to happen terribly fast... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 13:14:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25152 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:14:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov (mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25041; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:13:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from demios.ether.scl.ameslab.gov ([147.155.137.54] helo=demios.scl.ameslab.gov) by mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 0yhgOE-0003V5-00; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:13:34 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:13:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Guy Helmer To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Transparent packet diversion: Where is it? In-Reply-To: <3576DE84.ED153D95@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, Angelo Nardone wrote: > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > A month or so ago, someone announced a package that > > did redirection of packets to arbitrary places. > > > > I remember the comment > > "it's wierd seeing all those foreign adresses in the netstat listing". Perhaps this was what you were looking for: Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:06:04 +0100 From: Chrisy Luke To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Beta 3 release of Multipath routing and friends. ftp://ftp.flirble.org/pub/unix/hacks/FreeBSD/mpath.b3.tgz README attached. A few fixes to the Multipath code. The metric stuff and the persistant route caching will come in b4. This code mostly adds support to the ipfw interface and code to support two things, which are based on the same thing: * Directing INCOMING traffic that match rules to a LOCAL TCP port. This is intended for transparent proxying without external calls to a LKM, it also doesn't touch the packet, so getsockname() works so there's also no need for a subsequent IOCTL to work out what the original destination/port was. It's freaky seeing random remote IP's listed as "Local addresses" in netstat! BSD-router-speed transparent diversion... :-) * Modifying the next-hop address of OUTBOUND traffic that matches the rule. My intention for this is to direct web traffic from a core router to a transparent proxy. David Sharnoff also wanted something similar, and the functionality of this thus extends to doing a route table lookup on the specified next-hop and using the route to it, meaning the next-hop doesn't need to be on a directly reachable interface. Remember though, this code only forwards to a directly reachable machine! It doesn't deliver it to the specified next-hop! TCP port numbers are ignored if this rule comes into affect. The rule-based forwarding mechanism is independant of the Multipath stuff, but does have multipath code in it if multipath is compiled in. Currently on rule-based forwarding there's a douvle-route-table penalty on the outbound traffic. I'll probably address this in b4 also. Chris. -- == chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org. == Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 13:59:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05854 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:59:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05629; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:58:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02171; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:20:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806041920.OAA02171@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806041910.NAA03447@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 01:10:58 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:20:14 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > And, I'm not stating that it's to be taken to the polar extreme either, > but that it's a *better* solution than sysctl. It's still not the best > solution either, but extending a poorer solution is certainly a step > in the wrong direction. > > I agree with Bruce in that programs are generally a better way of > configuring things. It's obvious if you know the system what needs to > be run, and how to get help on it. It also makes documenting things > easier, which sysctl does not. People already hate to document, and > making it hard to figure out where/how to document things just makes it > that much less likely to be documented. > I disagree for easily one simple reason: sysctl affords an internal documentation scheme that isn't a hack. Other reasons include the overhead and complexity of doing filesystems. If someone wants do do a kernfs that is as useful as our sysctl, and also figure out a clean way to provide the internal documentation, I wouldn't mind. Also, a general program that changes the binary representation provided by the kernel into readable text would also be important. This would require a kernel independent translation scheme. Right now, kernfs is too primitive. Also, it seems that the new kernfs shouldn't be optional. Sysctl as it is today, isn't optional, and we are very dependent on some of it for initial configuration (running a few times after startup sometimes.) We usually don't bang away at sysctl items, because they are often kernel parameters only. Sysctl provides a lot more than an initial view of it implies. Frankly, if we could do multi-stream files on /procfs, /kernfs, it would be great, because we could have seperate format fields and data fields. Too bad that doesn't exist yet. (Again, I find ASCII formatting in the kernel to be retrograde, and forgets about internationalization.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 14:02:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06561 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:02:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06304; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:01:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00518; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:01:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806042101.QAA00518@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806041927.NAA03558@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 01:27:47 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:01:13 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > > > I disagree for easily one simple reason: sysctl affords an internal > > documentation scheme that isn't a hack. > > Only to a developer, not to a user. Here's some of your log messages > for sysctl's that mean something to you, but don't mean a thing to a > normal user. > > vm_param.h > vm.pageout_algorithm=???? > > vm_zone.c > Add exposure of some vm_zone allocation stats by sysctl. > > And these would be, and would help me by? Where should they be > documented for the user? man 9 tuning? Are they specific to the zone > allocation? > > I'm not saying that kernfs would make this easier, but if I had a tuning > program that allowed me to tune it (man 8 vmtune), then it would be > *better* documented. Maybe I'm not screaming so much for the > implementation, but the interface and the way that new sysctl are added > w/out any regard to documentation/accessing them. :( > You aren't arguing /kernfs vs. sysctl here (other than kernfs is terminally broken regarding the ability of internal documentation being exposed through the interface.) Sysctl can afford a mechanism for exposing the info, and there is even a slot in the existing internal implementation. It might not be exposed yet, but at least it is not as terminally broken as /kernfs is. Note that I have been in the process of adding messages to my local tree over the last few weeks. You can complain that I haven't documented things well, but Nate, you are very capable of helping with the problem. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 14:35:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14108 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14019; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:34:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01825; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806042029.NAA01825@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG cc: jonny@jonny.eng.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 02:44:46 CDT." <199806040744.CAA00761@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 13:29:45 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith said: > > > > The write has to be a single, complete operation. That more or less > > goes without saying. The issue is whether you are willing to have > > these implicit controls on something that you might think "should" > > behave entirely like a file. This still kills a lot of /dev, but it's > > also generally assumed that things mounted from "special" filesystems > > may have "special" semantics. > > > > Preface this with: > Conversions in the kernel are ugly. They should be done by > a user space program. Sysctl provides a consistant interface > from kernel binary formats to user friendly formats, without > conversions in kernel space... It even provides format information, yup. And I take your point about conversion overheads. > Again, reducing to the absurd. Why add yet another non-file like > file??? Hmmm??? Are we justifying wierd semantics by other cases > of wierd semantics? Sometimes the wierd semantics might make sense, > but you can do most if not all of what makes sense with simple shell > scripting and the sysctl command. The sysctl system call/subroutine(s) > are very simple to use, for their purposes. One of the major drawbacks with sysctl is its handling of large data objects; any objection you can raise against ioctl() can be raised against sysctl as well. > > The current interface to sysctl sucks. I certainly can't use cat(1) on > > it. I can't open it and parse it with sscanf(). I can't mmap() it > > either, and it would be very nice to be able to do that. 8) > > > sysctl has a usable command interface. It is very easy to use > the sysctl system calls and/or library routines. Who cares if you > can't mmap it? That wouldn't make much sense anyway. For byte-counters, > there is alot more good that you can do with the wasted vnodes that > would be utilized by such a filesystem :-). I can see quite a lot of use in mmapping data; reducing the copy in/out overheads for statistics gathering just for starters. > BTW, if someone wants to do some filesystem hacking, our procfs only > needs a little cleanup to almost fully support PS without the proc size > mismatch problem. There are some things that might make sense in a > kernfs, but most of the kernel state setting and retrieval > functions do not make sense in kernfs. Type conversion to printable > formats belongs in userspace (within reason.) Hmm. Thanks for the input. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 14:58:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18595 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:58:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18568; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:58:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00837; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:57:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806042157.QAA00837@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042029.NAA01825@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jun 4, 98 01:29:45 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:57:55 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jonny@jonny.eng.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith said: > > I can see quite a lot of use in mmapping data; reducing the copy in/out > overheads for statistics gathering just for starters. > One has to be very careful with that, esp on SMP systems. Synchronization of data is sometimes critical. Exposing pieces of the kernel and structures is frought with compatibility problems. Those are some of the reasons why /dev/kmem is so lame. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 15:04:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19389 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19240; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:03:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06292; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:03:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd006161; Thu Jun 4 15:03:16 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA14257; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:02:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806042202.PAA14257@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... To: mns@pobox.com (Mark Shepard) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:02:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, jonny@jonny.eng.br, mike@dingo.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806041951.MAB17978@proxy4.ba.best.com> from "Mark Shepard" at Jun 4, 98 12:49:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > procfs/kernfs is essentially a kernel API in disguise. Considered as an > API, sysctl seems "cleaner" and lighter-weight than procfs/kernfs -- > there's no need to format/parse ASCII, no need to generate column headers, > and FreeBSD's sysctl provides data in a more uniform format than Linux's > procfs. The main issue I take with this is that "ps, w, who, and netstat break when kernel structures change". It may be correct to point at sysctl and say "yea, verily, this is light weight", but to paraphrase Eddie Murphy, what has it done for me lately? I have a *real* problem with the externalization of kernel structures as API. One camp wants the features left alone because they don't want to roll the code into kgdb ("crash"). Another wants the /dev/kmem dependence taken out, come hell or high water, and screw the ability to ps system dumps. I don't think either camp is right (of course 8-)), and would prefer binding an absracted interface to the kernel object file, and requiring the use of ELF section tags, but I am a minority of one. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 15:06:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19648 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:06:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19630 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02049; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806042100.OAA02049@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" cc: Peter Wemm , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Who broke the CVS repository? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 11:21:24 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 14:00:10 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Where are you getting the files from? A mirror might be out of sync.. > > (Hmm, the master on freefall seems OK...) > Getting files from: > Name: opus.cts.cwu.edu > Address: 198.104.92.71 > Aliases: cvsup.freebsd.org > > I did try blowing it away and re-supping when first it happened, and did > that twice, to no avail. > Whoah.... > > OK, I resup, and it's fine; it's a nice RCS file. I start the make > release, and it gets up to checking it out again and fails. I'll read in > the new contents at the end of this mail, after my outrageously huge .sig, > along with the version that I get clean of a cvsup. > Something in the make seems to be doing funky things... Looks like you have filesystem corruption. What does fsck think about the filesystem? In particular, it looks like you are seeing part of the contents of libg++/tests/tFix.exp plastered over it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 15:11:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20583 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20538; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:11:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02097; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806042105.OAA02097@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 13:27:47 MDT." <199806041927.NAA03558@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 14:05:55 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm not saying that kernfs would make this easier, but if I had a tuning > program that allowed me to tune it (man 8 vmtune), then it would be > *better* documented. Maybe I'm not screaming so much for the > implementation, but the interface and the way that new sysctl are added > w/out any regard to documentation/accessing them. :( I think we are perilously close to agreement here. You could argue that the absensce of such a utility implies that the nodes are not there for your general tweaking. ie. they are not exposed to your interface and thus you can effectively ignore them... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 15:23:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22450 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:23:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22403; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:22:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA27355; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:22:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA04845; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:22:53 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:22:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199806042222.QAA04845@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mike Smith Cc: Nate Williams , dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042105.OAA02097@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199806041927.NAA03558@mt.sri.com> <199806042105.OAA02097@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm not saying that kernfs would make this easier, but if I had a tuning > > program that allowed me to tune it (man 8 vmtune), then it would be > > *better* documented. Maybe I'm not screaming so much for the > > implementation, but the interface and the way that new sysctl are added > > w/out any regard to documentation/accessing them. :( > > I think we are perilously close to agreement here. > > You could argue that the absensce of such a utility implies that the > nodes are not there for your general tweaking. ie. they are not > exposed to your interface and thus you can effectively ignore them... I argue shouldn't be exposed to the users then. If it's exposed, it should be documented. In other words, sysctl should go away since very few (if any) of it's knobs are documented except accidentally. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 15:29:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23667 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:29:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23557; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:29:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02195; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806042123.OAA02195@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: Mike Smith , dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 16:22:53 MDT." <199806042222.QAA04845@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 14:23:09 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I'm not saying that kernfs would make this easier, but if I had a tuning > > > program that allowed me to tune it (man 8 vmtune), then it would be > > > *better* documented. Maybe I'm not screaming so much for the > > > implementation, but the interface and the way that new sysctl are added > > > w/out any regard to documentation/accessing them. :( > > > > I think we are perilously close to agreement here. > > > > You could argue that the absensce of such a utility implies that the > > nodes are not there for your general tweaking. ie. they are not > > exposed to your interface and thus you can effectively ignore them... > > I argue shouldn't be exposed to the users then. If it's exposed, it > should be documented. In other words, sysctl should go away since very > few (if any) of it's knobs are documented except accidentally. You aren't clear *which* sysctl should go away. If you mean sysctl(8), I hope you will be removing gdb, nm, hexdump, etc. as well, as these are all user-unfriendly tools designed for studying and/or adjusting the state of complex, undocumented things. sysctl(8) is a tool for writing scripts, and performing tasks which have been previously documented. It is not a user-friendly interface, however it still exists to serve a purpose. The absence of a "simpler" interface does not warrant the removal of the existing one. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 15:33:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24635 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24558; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:33:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA27455; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:33:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA04941; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:33:03 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:33:03 -0600 Message-Id: <199806042233.QAA04941@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mike Smith Cc: Nate Williams , dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042123.OAA02195@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199806042222.QAA04845@mt.sri.com> <199806042123.OAA02195@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I argue shouldn't be exposed to the users then. If it's exposed, it > > should be documented. In other words, sysctl should go away since very > > few (if any) of it's knobs are documented except accidentally. > > You aren't clear *which* sysctl should go away. If you mean sysctl(8), I > hope you will be removing gdb, nm, hexdump, etc. as well, as these are > all user-unfriendly tools designed for studying and/or adjusting the > state of complex, undocumented things. But users aren't expected to use gdb/nm/hexdump, but sysctl is. Many of these parameters *should* be tweaked to get better performance, avoid errors, etc... > sysctl(8) is a tool for writing scripts, and performing tasks which > have been previously documented. It is not a user-friendly interface, > however it still exists to serve a purpose. What tasks have been documented that are used by sysctl? Tell me where 'sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.rfc13230=0' is documented. (And, no I don't consider it's presence in rc.network documentation. :() Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 15:34:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24945 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:34:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24839 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:34:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA06424; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:33:36 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:33:36 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" Reply-To: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Mike Smith cc: Peter Wemm , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Who broke the CVS repository? In-Reply-To: <199806042100.OAA02049@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > Looks like you have filesystem corruption. What does fsck think > about the filesystem? > > In particular, it looks like you are seeing part of the contents of > libg++/tests/tFix.exp plastered over it. Hmmm... It's a plain, ordinary filesystem, sync mounted and all, and what really gets me is that BEFORE I do the make release, the contents are right, but AFTER it fails, they're screwey. Probably later tonite I'll take this system down, so I can fsck /home and see if anything turns up, but I've never had any problem with it. > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 15:35:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25129 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:35:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24977; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:34:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00343; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:34:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806042234.RAA00343@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042222.QAA04845@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 04:22:53 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:34:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, nate@mt.sri.com, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > > I'm not saying that kernfs would make this easier, but if I had a tuning > > > program that allowed me to tune it (man 8 vmtune), then it would be > > > *better* documented. Maybe I'm not screaming so much for the > > > implementation, but the interface and the way that new sysctl are added > > > w/out any regard to documentation/accessing them. :( > > > > I think we are perilously close to agreement here. > > > > You could argue that the absensce of such a utility implies that the > > nodes are not there for your general tweaking. ie. they are not > > exposed to your interface and thus you can effectively ignore them... > > I argue shouldn't be exposed to the users then. If it's exposed, it > should be documented. In other words, sysctl should go away since very > few (if any) of it's knobs are documented except accidentally. > If you shouldn't use sysctl, then don't run it. If you shouldn't manipulate /dev/rwd0 or /dev/kmem, then don't do that either. Ignore it, and since it won't appear in the filesystem tree, then all will be well. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 15:45:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27420 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:45:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27196; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:44:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00404; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:43:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806042243.RAA00404@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042233.QAA04941@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 04:33:03 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:43:51 -0500 (EST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, nate@mt.sri.com, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > > I argue shouldn't be exposed to the users then. If it's exposed, it > > > should be documented. In other words, sysctl should go away since very > > > few (if any) of it's knobs are documented except accidentally. > > > > You aren't clear *which* sysctl should go away. If you mean sysctl(8), I > > hope you will be removing gdb, nm, hexdump, etc. as well, as these are > > all user-unfriendly tools designed for studying and/or adjusting the > > state of complex, undocumented things. > > But users aren't expected to use gdb/nm/hexdump, but sysctl is. Many of > these parameters *should* be tweaked to get better performance, avoid > errors, etc... > Only some of them, if any. Most of the manipulation should be in the rc files. If you want to tweak your system, then tweak it. There is no equality of expertise here, and just stay away from what you don't understand. > > > sysctl(8) is a tool for writing scripts, and performing tasks which > > have been previously documented. It is not a user-friendly interface, > > however it still exists to serve a purpose. > > What tasks have been documented that are used by sysctl? > > Tell me where 'sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.rfc13230=0' is documented. (And, > no I don't consider it's presence in rc.network documentation. :() > You are hereby appointed to document what you know, to get it started. Of course, /kernfs is exactly the same thing, except doesn't do enough for what we need. I am NOT for implementing a: echo "0" >/kernfs/net/inet/tcp/rfc1323 It is entirely bogus for the kernel to parse strings like this. We probably do it, but that doesn't mean it's right... Even worse would be: echo "NO" >/kernfs/net/inet/tcp/rfc1323 but in Russia or China, what would one enter???? Parsing of language or strings in the kernel is really short sighted. Of course, this is a degenerate case, but shows that an exposed kernel interface needs a userland program to be nice. The sysctl program is such a minimal interface. Try this one: cat /kernfs/time Which locale should it use??? Tell me that the above isn't in the domain of hackery anyway??? -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 15:47:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28001 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:47:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27840; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02304; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806042140.OAA02304@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: Mike Smith , dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 16:33:03 MDT." <199806042233.QAA04941@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 14:40:28 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I argue shouldn't be exposed to the users then. If it's exposed, it > > > should be documented. In other words, sysctl should go away since very > > > few (if any) of it's knobs are documented except accidentally. > > > > You aren't clear *which* sysctl should go away. If you mean sysctl(8), I > > hope you will be removing gdb, nm, hexdump, etc. as well, as these are > > all user-unfriendly tools designed for studying and/or adjusting the > > state of complex, undocumented things. > > But users aren't expected to use gdb/nm/hexdump, but sysctl is. Many of > these parameters *should* be tweaked to get better performance, avoid > errors, etc... Sure, and I think we all agree that a better frontend for these parameters is required. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be exported, nor that sysctl(8) isn't useful and adequate for some tasks. > > sysctl(8) is a tool for writing scripts, and performing tasks which > > have been previously documented. It is not a user-friendly interface, > > however it still exists to serve a purpose. > > What tasks have been documented that are used by sysctl? > > Tell me where 'sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.rfc13230=0' is documented. (And, > no I don't consider it's presence in rc.network documentation. :() Its documented in the FAQ (or at least it was). It's documented in a couple of manuals I wrote for customers for whom it was relevant. I'm quite certain that it's used as infrastructure in documented applications elsewhere. These are cases where the presence of sysctl(8) has made it possible to do things for which otherwise another application would have had to have been added to pollute the application namesepace. As it is now, the correct interface to the rfc-related sysctls is in /etc/rc.conf and the supporting documentation. Sysctl(8) provides a convenient mechanism whereby rc.network can manipulate these parameters and many others, without requiring a plethora of basically identical applications. As you said before; KISS. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 16:32:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06257 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06237; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:32:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA27996; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:32:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA05525; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:32:17 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:32:17 -0600 Message-Id: <199806042332.RAA05525@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042243.RAA00404@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199806042233.QAA04941@mt.sri.com> <199806042243.RAA00404@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > You aren't clear *which* sysctl should go away. If you mean sysctl(8), I > > > hope you will be removing gdb, nm, hexdump, etc. as well, as these are > > > all user-unfriendly tools designed for studying and/or adjusting the > > > state of complex, undocumented things. > > > > But users aren't expected to use gdb/nm/hexdump, but sysctl is. Many of > > these parameters *should* be tweaked to get better performance, avoid > > errors, etc... > > > Only some of them, if any. Again I say, if they're not meant to be touched, then don't expose them. It's stupid to expose something that is useless for 99.9% of the population. It's not my place to enforce, but if it were I'd start removing any sysctl's that weren't documented/used. As Mike pointed out in private email, there are 434 sysctl nodes in our system, and 20 of them are documented one way or the other. The rest are magic. I think of sysctl as a bunch of big global variable, or OPTIONS in the kernel config file. If it isn't documented, it isn't needed. Do I have permission to start removing sysctl's that aren't documented/used? Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 16:37:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07032 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:37:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06989; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:37:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02556; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806042232.PAA02556@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 17:32:17 MDT." <199806042332.RAA05525@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 15:32:07 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > But users aren't expected to use gdb/nm/hexdump, but sysctl is. Many of > > > these parameters *should* be tweaked to get better performance, avoid > > > errors, etc... > > > > > Only some of them, if any. > > Again I say, if they're not meant to be touched, then don't expose > them. It's stupid to expose something that is useless for 99.9% of the > population. They're no more or less "exposed" than, say, the diskslice ioctls. If they serve a function as (eg.) maintenance tools, then they're superior to the Sun "just use adb on the kernel and set this to that..." approach. > It's not my place to enforce, but if it were I'd start removing any > sysctl's that weren't documented/used. As Mike pointed out in private > email, there are 434 sysctl nodes in our system, and 20 of them are > documented one way or the other. The rest are magic. > > I think of sysctl as a bunch of big global variable, or OPTIONS in the > kernel config file. If it isn't documented, it isn't needed. > > Do I have permission to start removing sysctl's that aren't > documented/used? I would be more inclined to suggest an evenhanded review; if you can't obtain documentation on one, then hash it out with UNDOCUMENTED_SYSCTLS and wait for someone to complain. Silence would sound like acceptance to me. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 16:41:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07752 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:41:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07552; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:40:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00731; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:40:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806042340.SAA00731@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042332.RAA05525@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 05:32:17 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:40:07 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > I think of sysctl as a bunch of big global variable, or OPTIONS in the > kernel config file. If it isn't documented, it isn't needed. > You are wrong. Just because you are wrong, doesn't mean that you are bad :-). > > Do I have permission to start removing sysctl's that aren't > documented/used? > No, in fact, I specifcally suggest that if you do, then you'll be obstructing progress on the project. You don't even know if a sysctl is used or not, so I don't think that you are in a position to do so. By your own admission, you don't know what most of the are for, and you then cannot be a judge. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 16:50:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09507 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:50:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09406; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:49:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA28135; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:49:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA05681; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:49:40 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:49:40 -0600 Message-Id: <199806042349.RAA05681@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042340.SAA00731@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199806042332.RAA05525@mt.sri.com> <199806042340.SAA00731@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Do I have permission to start removing sysctl's that aren't > > documented/used? > > > No, in fact, I specifcally suggest that if you do, then you'll > be obstructing progress on the project. I specifically suggest that undocumented sysctls are *NOT* progress. (BTW, what exactly is specifically suggest supposed to mean. Is it like 'strong suggest', or 'strongly feel'?) > You don't even know if a sysctl is used or not, so I don't think that > you are in a position to do so. By your own admission, you don't know > what most of the are for, and you then cannot be a judge. The people who know what they do have obviously no interest in them being used or they would have been documented, so I'm in as good a position as anyone, since the person who has a clue doesn't care or has forgotten about them. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 16:50:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09722 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:50:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09640 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:50:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08441; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:49:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03638; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA08569; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:49:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199806042349.QAA08569@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:49:38 -0700 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG" (Jun 4, 6:30pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Terry Lambert , Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Subject: Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG Cc: dk+@ua.net, barry@lustig.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, serge@yahoo.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jun 4, 6:30pm, Terry Lambert wrote: } Subject: Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG } Which reminds me. Someone needs to fix the "siginterrupt" man page. } } I would, but I think it is FreeBSD that is broken, not the man page, } and that by default, system calls *should* be restarted after a } signal is caught. I find it utterly bogus that I have to springle } the bejesus out of my code for while()'s and tests for "EINTR" and } manually restart all of my system calls. Gruds, if I wanted that, } I load System V on my box instead of BSD. Why not use the POSIX sigaction() call instead of signal(). It seems to be available except for really old systems that you probably don't want to play with anyway. It also works the same everywhere, unlike signal(). By default it keeps the signal handler instead of resetting it to SIG_DFL like the System V signal(), and doesn't interrupt system calls like System V signal(), but you get to pick your poison. } In The Good Old Days(tm), it wasn't an option; if you wanted EINTR } type behaviour, you did a setjmp before the call you wanted the } behaviour on, and like a decent, God-fearing BSD'er, you called } longjmp from the signal handler to prevent the call from being } restarted. Ick! If you leave out a setjmp(), you'll return to the wrong place. This also prevents you from keeping variables in registers, because they won't be restored when you return. In some implementations you have to remember to do a sigrelse() after returning from setjmp() if you ever want to catch the signal again. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 16:57:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11146 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:57:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10995; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:56:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00797; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:56:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806042356.SAA00797@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042349.RAA05681@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 05:49:40 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:56:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > The people who know what they do have obviously no interest in them > being used or they would have been documented, so I'm in as good a > position as anyone, since the person who has a clue doesn't care or has > forgotten about them. > You are welcome to remove the sysctl's from your local trees. They don't need to interfere with you. It might be time for NateBSD. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 16:59:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11633 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:59:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11425; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:58:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA13278; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd013267; Thu Jun 4 23:56:58 1998 Message-ID: <35773444.59E2B600@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 16:56:52 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Guy Helmer CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Transparent packet diversion: Where is it? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG YES!!!! Guy Helmer wrote: > > On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, Angelo Nardone wrote: > > > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > A month or so ago, someone announced a package that > > > did redirection of packets to arbitrary places. > > > > > > I remember the comment > > > "it's wierd seeing all those foreign adresses in the netstat listing". > > Perhaps this was what you were looking for: > > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:06:04 +0100 > From: Chrisy Luke > To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Beta 3 release of Multipath routing and friends. > > ftp://ftp.flirble.org/pub/unix/hacks/FreeBSD/mpath.b3.tgz > > README attached. > > A few fixes to the Multipath code. The metric stuff and the persistant > route caching will come in b4. > > This code mostly adds support to the ipfw interface and code to support > two things, which are based on the same thing: > > * Directing INCOMING traffic that match rules to a LOCAL TCP port. > This is intended for transparent proxying without external calls > to a LKM, it also doesn't touch the packet, so getsockname() works > so there's also no need for a subsequent IOCTL to work out what the > original destination/port was. > It's freaky seeing random remote IP's listed as "Local addresses" > in netstat! BSD-router-speed transparent diversion... :-) > > * Modifying the next-hop address of OUTBOUND traffic that matches the > rule. My intention for this is to direct web traffic from a core > router to a transparent proxy. David Sharnoff also wanted something > similar, and the functionality of this thus extends to doing a route > table lookup on the specified next-hop and using the route to it, > meaning the next-hop doesn't need to be on a directly reachable > interface. Remember though, this code only forwards to a directly > reachable machine! It doesn't deliver it to the specified next-hop! > TCP port numbers are ignored if this rule comes into affect. > > The rule-based forwarding mechanism is independant of the Multipath > stuff, but does have multipath code in it if multipath is compiled in. > > Currently on rule-based forwarding there's a douvle-route-table penalty > on the outbound traffic. I'll probably address this in b4 also. > > Chris. > -- > == chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org. > == Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 17:03:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12307 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:03:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12033; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00828; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:01:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806050001.TAA00828@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042232.PAA02556@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jun 4, 98 03:32:07 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:01:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith said: > > > > Do I have permission to start removing sysctl's that aren't > > documented/used? > > I would be more inclined to suggest an evenhanded review; if you can't > obtain documentation on one, then hash it out with UNDOCUMENTED_SYSCTLS > and wait for someone to complain. Silence would sound like acceptance > to me. > Nope, let's not create more work for the people really working on FreeBSD than the armchair quarterbacks like Nate. DO NOT REMOVE any sysctl's without review. Any sysctl's that I have added are there for a reason, and I would be very displeased if I have to add them back in. If someone goes through the motions of modifying a file, they can just as well add info into the comment field for the sysctl. So rather than taking functionality out, be productive and add the description in. DO NOT WASTE MY TIME WITH THIS!!! -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 17:07:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13413 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:07:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12978; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:06:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00859; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:05:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806050005.TAA00859@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042349.RAA05681@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 05:49:40 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:05:47 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > > Do I have permission to start removing sysctl's that aren't > > > documented/used? > > > > > No, in fact, I specifcally suggest that if you do, then you'll > > be obstructing progress on the project. > > I specifically suggest that undocumented sysctls are *NOT* progress. > (BTW, what exactly is specifically suggest supposed to mean. Is it like > 'strong suggest', or 'strongly feel'?) > I suggest that you are welcome to document the sysctl's. Since you seem to be able to choose which ones are valid, and which ones are not, you can certainly document them. Please don't decline my request, because I'll have to end up fixing any of your breakage, and it is terribly wasteful of both of our time. BTW, please don't waste my time. If you want sysctl better documented, then there is a nice project for you!!! I'll even feed answers to your questions for you to fill in the fields. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 17:22:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16513 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:22:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16391; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:22:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA28404; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:22:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA05903; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:22:10 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:22:10 -0600 Message-Id: <199806050022.SAA05903@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806050001.TAA00828@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199806042232.PAA02556@dingo.cdrom.com> <199806050001.TAA00828@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Do I have permission to start removing sysctl's that aren't > > > documented/used? > > > > I would be more inclined to suggest an evenhanded review; if you can't > > obtain documentation on one, then hash it out with UNDOCUMENTED_SYSCTLS > > and wait for someone to complain. Silence would sound like acceptance > > to me. > > > Nope, let's not create more work for the people really working on FreeBSD > than the armchair quarterbacks like Nate. If you aren't willing to document them, then it's not FreeBSD. It's JohnBSD, since John is the only person who makes use of them. FreeBSD is for everyone, not just John. Don't waste everyone's time trying to wade through stuff that has no relevance in their kernel. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 17:24:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16922 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:24:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16747; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA28412; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:23:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA05910; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:23:43 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:23:43 -0600 Message-Id: <199806050023.SAA05910@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806050005.TAA00859@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199806042349.RAA05681@mt.sri.com> <199806050005.TAA00859@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I suggest that you are welcome to document the sysctl's. As Mike stated, I will. If I ask for something and receive no response, I'll assume that it's not used or of no use and remove it. If it's too much time for you to explain what it's for, then it's must not be worth anything. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 17:44:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20982 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:44:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20852; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:43:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01086; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:43:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806050043.TAA01086@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806050023.SAA05910@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 06:23:43 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:43:52 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > I suggest that you are welcome to document the sysctl's. > > As Mike stated, I will. If I ask for something and receive no response, > I'll assume that it's not used or of no use and remove it. > Don't remove it, send-pr it. > > If it's too much time for you to explain what it's for, then it's must > not be worth anything. > That isn't true, and fallacious reasoning. Send-pr it instead. Breaking things further doesn't help the problem, and since it is a bug if it isn't documented, then it should be treated as such. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 17:47:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21533 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:47:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21482; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:46:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01103; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:46:36 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806050046.TAA01103@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042222.QAA04845@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 04:22:53 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:46:36 -0500 (EST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, nate@mt.sri.com, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > I argue shouldn't be exposed to the users then. If it's exposed, it > should be documented. In other words, sysctl should go away since very > few (if any) of it's knobs are documented except accidentally. > Send-pr each individual sysctl, and responsible parties can fix them, and they can be prioritized. Changing things that you aren't responsible for is irresponsible. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 17:48:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21738 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:48:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21625; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:48:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01092; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:44:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806050044.TAA01092@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806050022.SAA05903@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 06:22:10 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:44:47 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > > > Do I have permission to start removing sysctl's that aren't > > > > documented/used? > > > > > > I would be more inclined to suggest an evenhanded review; if you can't > > > obtain documentation on one, then hash it out with UNDOCUMENTED_SYSCTLS > > > and wait for someone to complain. Silence would sound like acceptance > > > to me. > > > > > Nope, let's not create more work for the people really working on FreeBSD > > than the armchair quarterbacks like Nate. > > If you aren't willing to document them, then it's not FreeBSD. It's > JohnBSD, since John is the only person who makes use of them. > > FreeBSD is for everyone, not just John. > > Don't waste everyone's time trying to wade through stuff that has no > relevance in their kernel. > Why don't you just stay away from the kernel, and work on things that you understand? -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 18:10:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24521 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:10:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newmail.netbistro.com (newmail.netbistro.com [204.239.167.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA24378 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyonsm@netbistro.com) Received: (qmail 29765 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Jun 1998 01:08:33 -0000 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:08:33 -0700 (PDT) From: M Lyons Reply-To: M Lyons To: "John S. Dyson" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > By the time you create a filter to do the conversions (using a more > reasonable kernel binary interface), then you have yet another sysctl > program to interpret your kernfs. :-). If written properly, you may instead have a useful, generic structure-decoding tool that can also be used by other shell scripts for different purposes in the future. perl's unpack operator is but one possible example of an interface for such a utility. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 20:58:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19312 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:58:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19285 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:58:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04724; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806050357.UAA04724@implode.root.com> To: Nate Williams cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 17:32:17 MDT." <199806042332.RAA05525@mt.sri.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 20:57:18 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I think of sysctl as a bunch of big global variable, or OPTIONS in the >kernel config file. If it isn't documented, it isn't needed. That's just being silly and you know it. >Do I have permission to start removing sysctl's that aren't >documented/used? You're welcome to remove them from your own sources, but commiting those changes is a real good way to lose your commit privileges. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 21:22:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23175 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:22:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from swing.ca.sandia.gov (swing.ca.sandia.gov [146.246.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23141 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:22:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov) Received: from swing.ca.sandia.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by swing.ca.sandia.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00625 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:22:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov) Message-Id: <199806042122.QAA00625@swing.ca.sandia.gov> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: style(9) error? Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 16:22:22 -0500 From: "Chris Csanady" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I would like to make use of a feature that style tells me I can use, but gcc tells me I can not.. >From style(9): es, it makes it easier to read. If the macro encapsulates a compound statement, enclose it in a ``do'' loop, so that it can safely be used in ``if'' statements. Any final statement-terminating semicolon should be supplied by the macro invocation rather than the macro, to make parsing easier for pretty-printers and editors. #define MACRO(x, y) do { \ variable = (x) + (y); \ (y) += 2; \ } while(0) As far as I can tell, it is impossible to put a do loop in a if statement, or anything else. Is this correct? I always thought that blocks evaluated to their last statements, but it seems not.. Chris Csanady To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 22:10:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:10:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00646 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:10:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA00677; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:10:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA07054; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:10:29 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:10:29 -0600 Message-Id: <199806050510.XAA07054@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dg@root.com Cc: Nate Williams , mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806050357.UAA04724@implode.root.com> References: <199806042332.RAA05525@mt.sri.com> <199806050357.UAA04724@implode.root.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >I think of sysctl as a bunch of big global variable, or OPTIONS in the > >kernel config file. If it isn't documented, it isn't needed. > > That's just being silly and you know it. How is it any different? Some of the sysctl parameters are things that were once options, so I'm being factual. > >Do I have permission to start removing sysctl's that aren't > >documented/used? > > You're welcome to remove them from your own sources, but commiting those > changes is a real good way to lose your commit privileges. Thanks for the threat. I ask for permission and get spanked. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 22:57:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09979 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:57:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09914 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:57:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA03337; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:27:27 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980605152726.G768@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:27:26 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Chris Csanady , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: style(9) error? References: <199806042122.QAA00625@swing.ca.sandia.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806042122.QAA00625@swing.ca.sandia.gov>; from Chris Csanady on Thu, Jun 04, 1998 at 04:22:22PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 June 1998 at 16:22:22 -0500, Chris Csanady wrote: > > I would like to make use of a feature that style tells me I can use, but > gcc tells me I can not.. > >> From style(9): > > es, it makes it easier to read. If the macro encapsulates a compound > statement, enclose it in a ``do'' loop, so that it can safely be used in > ``if'' statements. Any final statement-terminating semicolon should be > supplied by the macro invocation rather than the macro, to make parsing > easier for pretty-printers and editors. > > #define MACRO(x, y) do { \ > variable = (x) + (y); \ > (y) += 2; \ > } while(0) > > As far as I can tell, it is impossible to put a do loop in a if statement, > or anything else. Is this correct? No. > I always thought that blocks evaluated to their last statements, but > it seems not.. Not in C. You might be thinking of Algol 68 or LISP. So what's the real problem? You infer that gcc doesn't like it. It compiles the following quite happily: #define MACRO(x, y) do { \ variable = (x) + (y); \ (y) += 2; \ } while(0) foo () { int variable; int dummyy; MACRO (3, variable); } Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 23:04:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11497 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:04:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hen.scotland.net ([194.247.64.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11386 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:03:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@timog.prestel.co.uk) Received: from e2c10p49.scotland.net ([148.176.238.113] helo=timog.prestel.co.uk) by hen.scotland.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #5) for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org id 0yhpbF-00075c-00; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:03:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 199 invoked by uid 1002); 4 Jun 1998 21:13:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19980604221313.01394@timog.prestel.co.uk> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:13:13 +0100 From: Timo Geusch To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling sources with "-O2 -m486 -pipe" References: <199806032301.QAA01867@dingo.cdrom.com> <19980604080140.A4348@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980604080140.A4348@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Thu, Jun 04, 1998 at 08:01:40AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 04, 1998 at 08:01:40AM +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > -m486 is likely to slow down the execution because -m486 alignments are not > really suitable to pentium and later processors. -m486 doesn't generate any > special instruction (the code will run on a 386). > > If you want to see any difference in speed, switch to egcs/pgcc which has a > pentium mode (and a Cyrix/K5/K6 mode for pgcc). Or use GCC2.8.1 from the ports collection with -mpentium. This actually makes for a smaller kernel (my -current kernel is about 10% smaller compared to the one generated by the standard settings). Seems to be stable enough, for me at least. Timo, who has to reboot his box all the time anyway To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 23:08:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12487 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:08:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12371; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:07:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA04406; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806050555.WAA04406@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 22:55:49 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:44:47 -0500 (EST) "John S. Dyson" wrote: > Why don't you just stay away from the kernel, and work on things that > you understand? Wow, you're a mature individual. Obscurity is a very lame way of ensuring job security. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 428 6939 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 23:18:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:18:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14638 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:18:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA22773; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd022766; Fri Jun 5 06:16:17 1998 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:16:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Chris Csanady cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: style(9) error? In-Reply-To: <199806042122.QAA00625@swing.ca.sandia.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG not th econditional part, the THEN clause.. e.g. if (condition) MACRO(x); else MACRO2(y); evaluates correctly to: if (condition) do { sdfdfsg; sdfghdghh; } while (0); else do { ffdgdfsgs; sdfgsdfgsIdg; } while (0); which is what you require, Hopefully the compiler will remove the un-needed loping code. (certainly it will since this is so commmon.) julian On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, Chris Csanady wrote: > > I would like to make use of a feature that style tells me I can use, but > gcc tells me I can not.. > > From style(9): > > es, it makes it easier to read. If the macro encapsulates a compound > statement, enclose it in a ``do'' loop, so that it can safely be used in > ``if'' statements. Any final statement-terminating semicolon should be > supplied by the macro invocation rather than the macro, to make parsing > easier for pretty-printers and editors. > > #define MACRO(x, y) do { \ > variable = (x) + (y); \ > (y) += 2; \ > } while(0) > > As far as I can tell, it is impossible to put a do loop in a if statement, > or anything else. Is this correct? I always thought that blocks evaluated > to their last statements, but it seems not.. > > Chris Csanady > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 4 23:53:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20946 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:53:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20906; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:53:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA00623; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 01:53:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806050653.BAA00623@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806050555.WAA04406@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from Jason Thorpe at "Jun 4, 98 10:55:49 pm" To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 01:53:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Thorpe said: > On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:44:47 -0500 (EST) > "John S. Dyson" wrote: > > > Why don't you just stay away from the kernel, and work on things that > > you understand? > > Wow, you're a mature individual. > Yep, he has indicated that he didn't understand sections of code that he was threatening to modify. That comment reinforced specifically that issue. Of course, you exclude that context for your sniping. I took Nate's threat of modifing code that he doesn't own seriously. > > Obscurity is a very lame way of ensuring job security. > Actually, they have been hassling me for quite a while. I suggest that they do the work, and I'll feed them the info. Note that he had previously said that he doesn't understand the VM code, and I don't have time to teach him. I do suggest looking at the Red Daemon book, and if the person doesn't understand the documentation there, then there is little that can be done to help. One good thing about our code, is that we didn't reinvent things when there was no need to (we do not practice NIH syndrome.) Also, all algorithms are fully disclosed in source code, and there is no code that is explicitly obscured. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 00:43:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28544 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 00:43:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28529 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 00:43:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hans@news.IAEhv.nl) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.8.8/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 5454 on Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:43:08 GMT; id HAA05454 efrom: hans; eto: UNKNOWN Received: by truk.brandinnovators.com (8.8.7/BI96070101) for id JAA04762; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:07:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199806050707.JAA04762@truk.brandinnovators.com> From: hans@brandinnovators.com (Hans Zuidam) Subject: Re: style(9) error? In-Reply-To: <19980605152726.G768@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jun 5, 98 03:27:26 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:07:45 +0200 (CEST) Cc: cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thu, 4 June 1998 at 16:22:22 -0500, Chris Csanady wrote: > > As far as I can tell, it is impossible to put a do loop in a if statement, > > or anything else. Is this correct? > No. > > I always thought that blocks evaluated to their last statements, but > > it seems not.. > Not in C. You might be thinking of Algol 68 or LISP. $ fortune Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semicolon. -- Epigrams in Programming, ACM SIGPLAN Sept. 1982 ;-) Hans -- H. Zuidam E-Mail: hans@brandinnovators.com Brand Innovators B.V. P-Mail: P.O. Box 1377 de Pinckart 54 5602 BJ Eindhoven, The Netherlands 5674 CC Nuenen Tel. +31 40 2631134, Fax. +31 40 2831138 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 01:17:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03354 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 01:17:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03340; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 01:17:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA06114; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 01:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806050816.BAA06114@implode.root.com> To: Nate Williams cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jun 1998 17:49:40 MDT." <199806042349.RAA05681@mt.sri.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 01:16:02 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> You don't even know if a sysctl is used or not, so I don't think that >> you are in a position to do so. By your own admission, you don't know >> what most of the are for, and you then cannot be a judge. > >The people who know what they do have obviously no interest in them >being used or they would have been documented, so I'm in as good a >position as anyone, since the person who has a clue doesn't care or has >forgotten about them. If we adopt this philosophy then we might as well just dump FreeBSD and go work on something else. There are lots of things in FreeBSD that are undocumented. Documentation is unfortuantely the thing that usually happens last and we tend to do it in our copious free time (which is rare these days). I'm strongly in favor of documentation, so I welcome you or anyone else's contribution in the documentation area. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 02:31:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA14512 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 02:31:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (csnet.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA14483; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 02:31:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.csa (csd [132.68.32.8]) by csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id MAA17375; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:30:35 +0300 Received: from localhost by csd.csa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA17918; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:31:13 +0300 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:31:13 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: "John S. Dyson" cc: "Alan B. Stone" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HP DeskJet's In-Reply-To: <199806041906.OAA02116@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > Alan B. Stone said: > > Hi, > > > > I've read over every page in the book and online. I can't get the HP > > DeskJet 855C I have to print. When it does print it puts out > > postscript, not text. How can I correct the problem? Thanks, > > > ghostscript canconvert from postscript to DJ language. I am using > an HP890, and very happy with it. Caveat: it uses lots of ink :-(. Check out the mode it prints in. Gostscript uses Normal (or even Best, I don't remember) print mode when using the cdj850 driver. I always use -dQuality=-1 to make it print in econo-mode (there's not much of a difference on standard paper anyhow). > > -- > John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, > dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, > jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. > Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 02:39:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA15500 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 02:39:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dog.farm.org (gw-hssi-2.farm.org [209.66.103.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA15428 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 02:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dog.farm.org!dk) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id CAA22783; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 02:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980605023329.13460@dog.farm.org> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 02:33:29 -0700 From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk =?KOI8-R?B?5M3J1NLJyiDrz8jNwc7Ayw==?= To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: /kernel: changing root device to st0s1a Reply-To: dk+@ua.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e X-Class: Fast X-OS-Used: FreeBSD 2.2-960501-SNAP X-NIC-Handle: DK379 X-Pager-Email: dk@interpage.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG no, it's not a joke. It's genuine 2.2.6-R dmesg output. no, this machine doesn't run from a tape, it doesn't ever have it ;_) before I dig into sources, have anybody seen this before??? this machine was also unable to boot after installing 2.2.6-R on it (both fdisk mode and dedicated mode - as usual, booting from floppy and then saying sd(0,a)/kernel works). I have had to fire Norton Disk Editor from DOS and fix wrong geometry in Partition Table. full dmesg: # dmesg Copyright (c) 1992-1998 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE #0: Wed Mar 25 02:28:49 GMT 1998 jkh@time.cdrom.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC CPU: Pentium (90.00-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping=5 Features=0x1bf real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) avail memory = 63135744 (61656K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0:0 chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7:0 chip2 rev 2 on pci0:7:1 vga0 rev 83 int a irq 15 on pci0:18:0 bt0 rev 0 int a irq 5 on pci0:19:0 bt0: Bt946C/ 0-(32bit) bus bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=11 bt0: version 4.25J, fast sync, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs bt0: targ 0 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 bt0: Using Strict Round robin scheme bt0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (bt0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST32155N 0318" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(bt0:0:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197405 512 byte sectors) vx0 <3COM 3C905 Fast Etherlink XL PCI> rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:20:0 mii[*mii*] address 00:60:97:07:9e:e0 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in bt: unit number (1) too high bt1 not found at 0x330 ep0 not found at 0x300 ex0 not found at 0xffffffff npx0 flags 0x1 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface changing root device to st0s1a Intel Pentium F00F detected, installing workaround To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 04:40:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02908 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 04:40:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA02885; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 04:40:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA04969; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:16:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199806051116.HAA04969@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806042243.RAA00404@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Jun 4, 98 05:43:51 pm" To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > echo "0" >/kernfs/net/inet/tcp/rfc1323 > > It is entirely bogus for the kernel to parse strings like this. We > probably do it, but that doesn't mean it's right... Even worse would be: Sorry, "entirely bogus" is just too strong for me - I think this should be "entirely irrelevant". I have 48K microcontroller systems that you can hook up a terminal too, hit CR six times "out of band", and they pop out of the usual binary protocol into a mode where they can be configured in ASCII (the ASCII is parsed into the binary protocol). If I can afford the overhead for parsing there we can afford the overhead in the kernel. The point is, I don't care if it is in the kernel or out of the kernel if it is designed in a way that it could be in either place. [ we now return to your regularly scheduled flame fest ... ] Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 07:04:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26416 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:04:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw1.att.com [192.128.133.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA26385; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:03:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw1.att.com; Fri Jun 5 09:04 CDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by kcig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id JAA18557; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:03:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:03:15 -0400 Message-ID: To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mns@pobox.com Cc: mike@smith.net.au, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jonny@jonny.eng.br, mike@dingo.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: kernfs/procfs questions... Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:03:14 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Mark Shepard[SMTP:mns@pobox.com] > > Also, no one's mentioned Localization yet -- all the column headers & > other > fixed strings in the Linux procfs are in English. Translating these > to > other languages might break programs which read procfs (column > positions > might change, etc.) So procfs doesn't magically remove the need for a > UI > front-end program to view config. variables, unless you ignore > localization. > Better make no column headers at all. If somebody wants them - they can be easily added, even with localization by external programs. But there will be no need to use sed every time to get rid of these headers if you want to parse this output in some program. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 07:32:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01528 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:32:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA01505 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:32:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA05648; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:31:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:31:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ECONNREFUSED on a READ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 5606 telnet CALL socket(0x2,0x2,0) 5606 telnet RET socket 3 5606 telnet CALL connect(0x3,0x200ac010,0x10) 5606 telnet RET connect 0 5606 telnet CALL sendto(0x3,0xefbfcfd8,0x16,0,0,0) 5606 telnet GIO fd 3 wrote 22 bytes "\^B\M-Z\^A\0\0\^A\0\0\0\0\0\0\^Dc126\0\0\^A\0\^A" 5606 telnet RET sendto 22/0x16 5606 telnet CALL poll(0xefbfcd88,0x1,0x2710) 5606 telnet RET poll 1 5606 telnet CALL recvfrom(0x3,0xefbfd884,0x400,0,0xefbfce10,0xefbfcd7c) 5606 telnet RET recvfrom -1 errno 61 Connection refused 5606 telnet CALL close(0x3) So we have a socket, make a connection on it, sendto on it, then do a recvfrom on it and get an error. I'm seeing this on a FreeBSD 3.0-971110-SNAP #0: Sat Jan 6 23:54:11 EST 1996 root@c064:/usr/src/sys/compile/SMP-CLUSTER On almost any program. Further tracing of programs I have shows that a remote client is successfully making a connect(), and the server here is successfully doing an accept(), but the first read() from the socket gets ECONNREFUSED. ?? Before anyone argues that you can't use recvfrom on a connected socket: Recvfrom() and recvmsg() are used to receive messages from a socket, and may be used to receive data on a socket whether or not it is connection- oriented. In fact recv is redundant, as per the man page. This code has been working for 2.5 years on various versions of linux and freebsd. (it's the ZOUNDS dsm). Any hints would be most helpful. ron Ron Minnich |Java: an operating-system-independent, rminnich@sarnoff.com |architecture-independent programming language (609)-734-3120 |for Windows/95 and Windows/NT on the Pentium ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 09:29:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22486 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:29:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beatrice.rutgers.edu (beatrice.rutgers.edu [165.230.209.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA22437; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:29:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu) Received: (from easmith@localhost) by beatrice.rutgers.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA15868; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:28:11 -0400 From: "Allen Smith" Message-Id: <9806051228.ZM15866@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:28:11 -0400 In-Reply-To: "John S. Dyson" "Re: kernfs/procfs questions..." (Jun 4, 7:05pm) References: <199806050005.TAA00859@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Subject: Documenting sysctls (was: Re: kernfs/procfs questions...) Cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jun 4, 7:05pm, John S. Dyson (possibly) wrote: > Nate Williams said: > > > > Do I have permission to start removing sysctl's that aren't > > > > documented/used? > > > > > > > No, in fact, I specifcally suggest that if you do, then you'll > > > be obstructing progress on the project. > > > > I specifically suggest that undocumented sysctls are *NOT* progress. > > (BTW, what exactly is specifically suggest supposed to mean. Is it like > > 'strong suggest', or 'strongly feel'?) > > > I suggest that you are welcome to document the sysctl's. Since you > seem to be able to choose which ones are valid, and which ones are > not, you can certainly document them. Please don't decline my > request, because I'll have to end up fixing any of your breakage, > and it is terribly wasteful of both of our time. > > BTW, please don't waste my time. If you want sysctl better documented, > then there is a nice project for you!!! I'll even feed answers > to your questions for you to fill in the fields. Umm... while everyone's talking about documenting sysctls, would somebody mind explaining exactly what proxyall does? From reading over the source code, I _think_ that this is what happens, but I'm not sure: A. If the machine receives an arp request for an IP address that's not one of its, and B. the arp request isn't from one of its interfaces, and C. there isn't an arp table entry saying it's supposed to broadcast something specific for an arp request for that IP address, and D. the proxyall sysctl is on, and E. it knows how to route to the IP address in question, and F. the route doesn't go out the same interface the arp request was received on, then G. it replies with the ethernet address of the interface the arp request was received on as the ethernet address to send stuff for that IP address to. If this is indeed the case, then putting documentation to this effect somewhere would be nice. With this and IP Filter's transparent forwarding capability, it appears possible to use a FreeBSD box as a L2-filtering-bridge, which would be quite nice. Thanks, -Allen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 09:41:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25361 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:41:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles182.castles.com [208.214.165.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25157 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:40:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01301; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806051535.IAA01301@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dk+@ua.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /kernel: changing root device to st0s1a In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Jun 1998 02:33:29 PDT." <19980605023329.13460@dog.farm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 08:35:34 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > no, it's not a joke. It's genuine 2.2.6-R dmesg output. > no, this machine doesn't run from a tape, it doesn't ever have it ;_) > > before I dig into sources, have anybody seen this before??? It's a typo, ignore it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 10:01:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29532 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:01:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29465; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00911; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:00:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806051700.MAA00911@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806051116.HAA04969@hda.hda.com> from Peter Dufault at "Jun 5, 98 07:16:14 am" To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:00:34 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Dufault said: > > echo "0" >/kernfs/net/inet/tcp/rfc1323 > > > > It is entirely bogus for the kernel to parse strings like this. We > > probably do it, but that doesn't mean it's right... Even worse would be: > > Sorry, "entirely bogus" is just too strong for me - I think this > should be "entirely irrelevant". > > I have 48K microcontroller systems that you can hook up a terminal > too, hit CR six times "out of band", and they pop out of the usual > binary protocol into a mode where they can be configured in ASCII > (the ASCII is parsed into the binary protocol). If I can afford > the overhead for parsing there we can afford the overhead in the > kernel. > > The point is, I don't care if it is in the kernel or out of the > kernel if it is designed in a way that it could be in either place. > My argument is so vehement partially due to locale issues. Since we have a userland, and the ability to put things in user-mode, it seems to make little sense to burden the kernel unnecessarily. This is a slipperly slope thing, and we need to recogize that if the kernel presents an interface, we shouldn't depend on binary to ascii conversion in the kernel, or blind binary either. We should present both the data and the format of the data between the kernel and user mode. User mode can then split the data effectively. The exposure of /dev/kmem is an example of parsing varying, unformatted data. Formatting in ascii doesn't really help either, because it puts both the formatting load onto the kernel, and ALSO the higher level data format is still blind. This is NOT an all or nothing deal, but just providing a filesystem interface to something that already has both an interface and data interpreter is a backwards step. Our sysctl is not ideal or finished, but does architecturally provide the interface and data interpreter. I don't care how this thing is done, and the code (or mechanism) appears to be an orphan. We have done some good work on sysctl (it is really easy to use, as opposed to the original stuff as seen on other *BSD's), but it does need more work. If embarking on a pseudo-better /kernfs, I don't want to see a regression, but a progression -- otherwise we'll still have two interfaces. I suggest that the best efforts would be to complete the sysctl interface, so that we don't have to reinvent so much. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 10:19:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03227 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:19:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03113 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:19:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08097; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd008062; Fri Jun 5 17:18:11 1998 Message-ID: <35782846.ABD322C@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 10:17:58 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: "Caleb R. Miller" Subject: [Fwd: FW: Adapting FreeBSD to be a RTOS] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm forwarding this from -questions as it's a bit more specialised . Caleb R. Miller wrote: > > What I was looking for was a version of FreeBSD that had > preemptive multitasking such that processes can run at > different rates and get preempted if they don't complete > within the assigned time. I did find a version of Linux > that has a real-time kernel and that runs Linux as a process. > I was wondering if anyone had done a similar thing with > FreeBSD or had modified the FreeBSD kernel to do > preemptive multitasking. > > Thanks! > Caleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 10:49:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08020 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:49:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08004 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:48:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09358 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd009355; Fri Jun 5 17:44:26 1998 Message-ID: <35782E77.2F1CF0FB@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 10:44:23 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: Re: POSIX standards.. fixing breakage?] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6201DD564487EB717DE14518" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6201DD564487EB717DE14518 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could we form such a working group? I know we could get input from just about everybody on this as this has got to be the most broken part around.. julian --------------6201DD564487EB717DE14518 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA24582 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 00:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whistle.whistle.com(207.76.205.131), claiming to be "whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd024580; Fri Jun 5 07:39:18 1998 Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA24838 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 00:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.whistle.com(207.76.204.2) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma024836; Fri Jun 5 00:38:48 1998 Received: (from smap@localhost) by gatekeeper.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA13221 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 00:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ringwood.relston.co.uk( 194.73.231.10) by gatekeeper via smap (V2.0) id xma013219; Fri, 5 Jun 98 00:38:23 -0700 Received: from nick (user163.intonet.co.uk [194.73.231.95]) by ringwood.relston.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA06541; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:38:09 +0100 (BST) From: "Nick Stoughton" To: Cc: "Jason Zions" Subject: RE: POSIX standards.. fixing breakage? Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:36:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bd9054$991477f0$7ce749c2@nick.relston.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <35771DAC.794BDF32@whistle.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: julian@whistle.com [mailto:julian@whistle.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 1998 11:20 PM > To: nick@usenix.org > Subject: POSIX standards.. fixing breakage? > > > As you seem to be watching teh POSIX standards, could you let me know > what you would suggest as a path to take in stating or supporting > an effort to fix things that are obviously broken in present > posix standards. > > ? Well, there are several answers to this. First, we are actively considering a full revision of POSIX.1, possibly in conjunction with The Open Group updating the Single Unix spec. Such "repairs" would be considered in that project. However, now it is in the standard, there is existing industry practice working with it. This means we are unlikely to change the fundemental way an interface works. But, in a case where there was an alternative way of specifying it, we might introduce a new alternative interface that behaved differently. > > In particular "Posix file locking" > I have never yet met a single person who believed that the posix > file-locking was less than "brain dead". > THis particular standard has led to the introduction of more > obscure bugs and the bloating of mor ecode than one would believe > possible. > > The main problem is: > Locks are per file descriptor, except in the case where you close on of > the file descriptors, and the locks go away on all teh other file > descriptoors you have to that file. > > There has to be a way to get a change to this. > The standard says what it says. We can't change that. But we can add to it -- perhaps a flag you can set via fcntl for persistent locks. Actually, it may just be that one of the realtime subgroups is doing that already; I'll try and check. > > julian > I will note this for discussion in the revision project. Another approach, if you have enough people (about 4-5), might be to undertake a new project yourself. This would allow you to produce a new "POSIX File Locking" standard, which is stand-alone. If you would like to know more about how to do this, Jason Zions (jazz@opennt.com) is both chair of the working group responsible for POSIX.1 and chair of the committee that reviews new projects and advises them. I am also a member of both these groups. Hope this is useful -- Nick Stoughton --------------6201DD564487EB717DE14518-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 11:01:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10063 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:01:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10047 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:00:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (root@[10.1.140.1]) by zwei with ESMTP id LAA27900; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:28:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (pc8811.gud.siemens.at [195.3.22.159]) by pc8811.gud.siemens.at (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20561; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:26:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980605152726.G768@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 11:26:17 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Siemens Austria AG From: Marino Ladavac To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: style(9) error? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 05-Jun-98 Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thu, 4 June 1998 at 16:22:22 -0500, Chris Csanady wrote: >> >> I would like to make use of a feature that style tells me I can use, but >> gcc tells me I can not.. >> >>> From style(9): >> >> es, it makes it easier to read. If the macro encapsulates a compound >> statement, enclose it in a ``do'' loop, so that it can safely be used >> in >> ``if'' statements. Any final statement-terminating semicolon should be >> supplied by the macro invocation rather than the macro, to make parsing >> easier for pretty-printers and editors. >> >> #define MACRO(x, y) do { >> #\ >> variable = (x) + (y); >> \ >> (y) += 2; >> \ >> } while(0) >> >> As far as I can tell, it is impossible to put a do loop in a if statement, >> or anything else. Is this correct? > > No. We have a case of misunderstanding here: the original poster asked whether if (MACRO(x, y)) foo(); else bar(); were allowed (which it is not, with the MACRO defined as it is), whereas you and the manpage are refering to if (foo()) MACRO(x, y); else MACRO(y, x); which is, and the do {} while() loop MACRO construct is necessary in order to allow for semicolons after the MACRO invocation in a true or false branches of an if statement. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 11:08:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11291 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:08:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11264; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:08:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA10185; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd010180; Fri Jun 5 18:07:16 1998 Message-ID: <357833D0.63DECDAD@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 11:07:12 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: For BDE: ALi retapes chip for FreeBSD! Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------500F9F3013728473695678E2" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------500F9F3013728473695678E2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Moved up from -questions .. too important! One for bruce, but maybe we could get a translation first? This represents the first time I know of that a chip vendor is retaping a chip to work correctly with FreeBSD.. --------------500F9F3013728473695678E2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA29918 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 05:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whistle.whistle.com(207.76.205.131), claiming to be "whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd029915; Fri Jun 5 12:10:34 1998 Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id FAA26879 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 05:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.whistle.com(207.76.204.2) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma026875; Fri Jun 5 05:10:02 1998 Received: (from smap@localhost) by gatekeeper.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id FAA15120 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 05:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns3.harborcom.net( 206.158.4.14) by gatekeeper via smap (V2.0) id xma015116; Fri, 5 Jun 98 05:10:01 -0700 Received: from hub.freebsd.org [204.216.27.18] by ns3.harborcom.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yhvJm-0003Gq-00; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:09:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA01741; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 04:33:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-questions) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Fri, 5 Jun 1998 04:33:01 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA01629 for freebsd-questions-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 04:33:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ali.com.tw (root@ali.ali.com.tw [210.67.80.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA01615 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 04:32:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from syhsieh@ali.com.tw) Received: from ali.com.tw (root@market.ali.com.tw [210.67.80.36]) by ali.com.tw (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA10469; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 19:48:22 +0800 Message-ID: <3577D9F3.80754AD7@ali.com.tw> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 19:43:47 +0800 From: Shiaw Yi Hsieh X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, johnson@ali.com.tw Subject: FreeBSD 2.2.5 AND 2.2.6 can not found serial port at Acer labs. M5135 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear sir, Several month ago, one of our customers name Iwill feedback one question: FreeBSD 2.2.5 can not found UART port at Iwill motherboard (use Acer labs. M5135). This parts is use Intel new technology name--serial IRQ. and did not found any problem in the other parts such as M5113,M5123 AND M1543. And our R&D people made much effort to study how FreeBSD can not found UART and Tape out a new version to fixed this issue(for 2.2.5). But after we get the new chip we still have got the following issue: 1. FreeBSD boot from CD-ROM PASS 2. FreeBSD boot from HDD PASS 3 FreeBSD boot from FDD FAIL After we studied the different between boot from CD-ROM,HDD AND FDD we found the different is in the command and command recovery time when FreeBSD polling UART's IRQ(read IIR register 2fa,3fa,2ea,3ea). The recovery time of CD-ROM,HDD is around several us but FDD command recovery time only 2us. would it possible last the FDD commend recovery time to over 10us? Maybe Serial IRQ will take more time when set IIR register and read 8259 to get the status, so we recommend OS polling or read those IIR register it is better to last the recovery time to get the 8259 IRQ status. Another issue is read 8259 IRQ status method, in the parallel IRQ you can read from edge or level but NEW serial IRQ our chip M5135 only have got a pulse and not the level. Maybe this is why FreeBSD can not found UART. Our new chip had been option to change the IRQ from pulse to level, but in FDD boot still have this issue. Do you have any comments? And FreeBSD test have been put in our chip verify item, so if you release new version, please mail to us for testting. If you have any comments please contact me: johnson@ali.com.tw Thanks JOHNSON CHEN / MANAGER Acer Labs. Inc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message --------------500F9F3013728473695678E2-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 11:08:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11367 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11302 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:08:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09952; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd009904; Fri Jun 5 18:00:03 1998 Message-ID: <3578321B.62319AC4@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 10:59:55 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nick Stoughton CC: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jason Zions , mckusick@mckusick.com Subject: Re: POSIX standards.. fixing breakage? References: <000201bd9054$991477f0$7ce749c2@nick.relston.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nick Stoughton wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: julian@whistle.com [mailto:julian@whistle.com] > > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 1998 11:20 PM > > To: nick@usenix.org > > Subject: POSIX standards.. fixing breakage? > > > > > > As you seem to be watching teh POSIX standards, could you let me know > > what you would suggest as a path to take in stating or supporting > > an effort to fix things that are obviously broken in present > > posix standards. > > > > ? > Well, there are several answers to this. > > First, we are actively considering a full revision of POSIX.1, > possibly in conjunction with The Open Group updating the Single > Unix spec. Such "repairs" would be considered in that project. thank god.. > > However, now it is in the standard, there is existing industry > practice working with it. This means we are unlikely to change > the fundemental way an interface works. But, in a case where there > was an alternative way of specifying it, we might introduce > a new alternative interface that behaved differently. an added flag either for the whole process or per file descriptor "LOCK_FD" (or something) that had to be specifically set would be fine. > > > > In particular "Posix file locking" > > I have never yet met a single person who believed that the posix > > file-locking was less than "brain dead". > > THis particular standard has led to the introduction of more > > obscure bugs and the bloating of more code than one would believe > > possible. > > > > The main problem is: > > Locks are per file descriptor, except in the case where you close on of > > the file descriptors, and the locks go away on all teh other file > > descriptoors you have to that file. > > > > There has to be a way to get a change to this. > > > The standard says what it says. We can't change that. But we can add > to it -- perhaps a flag you can set via fcntl for persistent locks. > Actually, it may just be that one of the realtime subgroups is doing that > already; I'll try and check. thanks On the topic I quote from the BSD4.4 man page.. ------------- This interface follows the completely stupid semantics of System V and IEEE Std1003.1-1988 (``POSIX'') that require that all locks associated with a file for a given process are removed when any file descriptor for that file is closed by that process. This semantic means that applica- tions must be aware of any files that a subroutine library may access. For example if an application for updating the password file locks the password file database while making the update, and then calls getpw- nam(3) to retrieve a record, the lock will be lost because getpwnam(3) opens, reads, and closes the password database. The database close will release all locks that the process has associated with the database, even if the library routine never requested a lock on the database. Another minor semantic problem with this interface is that locks are not inherit- ed by a child process created using the fork(2) function. The flock(2) interface has much more rational last close semantics and allows locks to be inherited by child processes. Flock(2) is recommended for applica- tions that want to ensure the integrity of their locks when using library routines or wish to pass locks to their children. Note that flock(2) and fcntl(2) locks may be safely used concurrently. ------------ You should see the internal gymnastics that the kernel has to go through to implenment this un-natural act. (Because locks are per file open in all cases except for 'close') > > > > julian > > > I will note this for discussion in the revision project. > > Another approach, if you have enough people (about 4-5), might be to > undertake a new project yourself. This would allow you to produce > a new "POSIX File Locking" standard, which is stand-alone. If you > would like to know more about how to do this, Jason Zions > (jazz@opennt.com) is both chair of the working group responsible > for POSIX.1 and chair of the committee that reviews new projects > and advises them. I am also a member of both these groups. I would certainly be interrested. I'm sure that people like Kirk MncKusick and Eric Allman would have things to 'say' about it, and the guys doing SAMBA have real headaches trying to get MSDOS locking semantics to make sense in the present framework. The Netatalk Guys have also indicated an interest in getting MAC file-locking interacting with Unix locks, and of course there is NQNFS 'Leases' and Windows "OpLocks" that need to interract. > > Hope this is useful Very, thankyou.. > -- > Nick Stoughton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 11:14:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12487 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ilium.troy.msen.com (ilium.troy.msen.com [148.59.4.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA12325 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:13:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wayne@ilium.troy.msen.com) Received: by ilium.troy.msen.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0yi0zi-0003cUC; Fri, 5 Jun 98 14:13 EDT Message-Id: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Page fault in kernel From: wayne@msen.com Date: Fri, 05 Jun 98 14:13:38 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Based upon the various charters, I assume this is the correct place to discuss kernel-level problems, if not I'm sure someone will correct me :-) We're looking at moving our Diablo-based nntp server from BSD/OS to FreeBSD. Everything appears mostly OK, except that the machine reboots every 36 hours or so. Did a bit of digging into the kernel and found that the MGETHDR at line 432 of kern/uipc_socket.c is returning with m = 0, which obviously causes the problem two lines later when it's trying to be used. Before I go thrashing around trying to locate this, is this a known problem with a patch avail? /\/\ \/\/ FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE #0: Thu May 14 02:06:53 EDT 1998 wayne@nn2.msen.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/NNTP CPU: Pentium (199.43-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52c Stepping=12 Features=0x1bf To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 11:38:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16945 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:38:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from swing.ca.sandia.gov (swing.ca.sandia.gov [146.246.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16825 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:38:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov) Received: from swing.ca.sandia.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by swing.ca.sandia.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02086; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:38:04 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov) Message-Id: <199806051138.GAA02086@swing.ca.sandia.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Marino Ladavac cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: style(9) error? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Jun 1998 11:26:17 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 06:38:04 -0500 From: "Chris Csanady" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [...] >>> As far as I can tell, it is impossible to put a do loop in a if statement, >>> or anything else. Is this correct? >> >> No. > >We have a case of misunderstanding here: the original poster asked whether > > if (MACRO(x, y)) > foo(); > else > bar(); Thank you.. This is indeed what I was thinking, and how I read the man page. I actually did some further looking, and it seems that it is possble to do this, only using something slightly different. #define BLA(x) ({ (x); }) This actually works in a conditional, assignment, etc.. evaluating the block to the last statement as I was expecting. Is there a reason why the do {} while(0) would be preffered over this? I appologize for the misunderstanding, I really didn't mean to make such a big deal over this nuance of C. Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 11:43:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17810 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17676 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:42:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05121; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:42:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd005101; Fri Jun 5 11:42:04 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA17035; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:41:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806051841.LAA17035@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Code Logic Question in 2.2 RELENG To: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:41:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com, dk+@ua.net, barry@lustig.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, serge@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <199806042349.QAA08569@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> from "Don Lewis" at Jun 4, 98 04:49:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > } Which reminds me. Someone needs to fix the "siginterrupt" man page. > } > } I would, but I think it is FreeBSD that is broken, not the man page, > } and that by default, system calls *should* be restarted after a > } signal is caught. I find it utterly bogus that I have to springle > } the bejesus out of my code for while()'s and tests for "EINTR" and > } manually restart all of my system calls. Gruds, if I wanted that, > } I load System V on my box instead of BSD. > > Why not use the POSIX sigaction() call instead of signal(). The point is not my choice of interface, it's that the siginterrupt(3) man page says: System call restart has been the default behavior since 4.2BSD, and is the default behaviour on FreeBSD. > It seems > to be available except for really old systems that you probably don't > want to play with anyway. Bad call. I *like* MicroVAX hardware running Ultrix. I'm the one who always complains about changes that make it so a K&R compiler on old hardware can't be used to port FreeBSD to that hardware. > It also works the same everywhere, unlike signal(). Only because System V implemented signals wrong. > } In The Good Old Days(tm), it wasn't an option; if you wanted EINTR > } type behaviour, you did a setjmp before the call you wanted the > } behaviour on, and like a decent, God-fearing BSD'er, you called > } longjmp from the signal handler to prevent the call from being > } restarted. > > Ick! If you leave out a setjmp(), you'll return to the wrong place. And if I call memcpy with arguments in bcopy order, I'll get the wrong results, too. Bad input == bad output. I don't see your objection. > This also prevents you from keeping variables in registers, because > they won't be restored when you return. What system are you running? Man setjmp(3) says: All accessible objects have values as of the time longjmp() routine was called, except that the values of objects of automatic storage invocation duration that do not have the volatile type and have been changed between the setjmp() invocation and longjmp() call are indeterminate. The setjmp()/longjmp() pairs save and restore the signal mask while _setjmp()/_longjmp() pairs save and restore only the register set and the stack. (See sigprocmask(2).) > In some implementations you have to remember to do a sigrelse() > after returning from setjmp() if you ever want to catch the signal > again. ??? Which implementations? I've worked on UNIXen from UTS to Microsoft Xenix on Sun 3 hardware to Heurikon's to whatever, and I have *never* seen this. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 11:51:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19318 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19204; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:51:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12768; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd012699; Fri Jun 5 11:51:00 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA17676; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:50:46 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806051850.LAA17676@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:50:46 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806050001.TAA00828@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jun 4, 98 07:01:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG TTTTTTT IIIIIII M M EEEEEEE OOOOO U U TTTTTTT ! T I MM MM E O O U U T !!! T I M M M M EEEEE O O U U T !!! T I M M M E O O U U T ! T I M M E O O U U T T IIIIIII M M EEEEEEE OOOOO UUUUU T ! Far be it for me to be the voice of reason, but... I think you guys are confusing: "sysctl, the bogus API for TCP RFC conformance twiddling" with: "sysctl, the useful tool for dynamic field reconfiguration of experimental code as part of bug resoloution" Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 12:33:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26790 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:33:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26767 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:33:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA07112; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:33:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA11091; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:58 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199806051932.NAA11091@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Ron G. Minnich" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECONNREFUSED on a READ? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 5606 telnet CALL socket(0x2,0x2,0) > 5606 telnet RET socket 3 > 5606 telnet CALL connect(0x3,0x200ac010,0x10) > 5606 telnet RET connect 0 > 5606 telnet CALL sendto(0x3,0xefbfcfd8,0x16,0,0,0) > 5606 telnet GIO fd 3 wrote 22 bytes > "\^B\M-Z\^A\0\0\^A\0\0\0\0\0\0\^Dc126\0\0\^A\0\^A" > 5606 telnet RET sendto 22/0x16 > 5606 telnet CALL poll(0xefbfcd88,0x1,0x2710) > 5606 telnet RET poll 1 > 5606 telnet CALL recvfrom(0x3,0xefbfd884,0x400,0,0xefbfce10,0xefbfcd7c) > 5606 telnet RET recvfrom -1 errno 61 Connection refused > 5606 telnet CALL close(0x3) > > So we have a socket, make a connection on it, sendto on it, then do a > recvfrom on it and get an error. > > I'm seeing this on a > FreeBSD 3.0-971110-SNAP #0: Sat Jan 6 23:54:11 EST 1996 > root@c064:/usr/src/sys/compile/SMP-CLUSTER > > On almost any program. Do you have a short program that demonstrates this bug? I'd like to see if this is the same sort of problem that the JDK is seeing, since it sounds like it. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 12:44:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28154 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:44:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (jzD19kXJy0h4b27jkvKEEo3GMvNMp61a@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA28101; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak71.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.71] ([mT5eyIhoBwjmW24ZL5whWgHYxeEx+vsg]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0yi2OP-00022z-00; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:43:13 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak71.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0yi2OO-0004LC-00; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:43:12 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:43:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: kernfs/procfs questions..." (Jun 5, 6:50pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Terry Lambert , dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... Cc: mike@smith.net.au, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jun 5, 6:50pm, Terry Lambert wrote: } Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... > > I think you guys are confusing: > > "sysctl, the bogus API for TCP RFC conformance twiddling" > > with: > > "sysctl, the useful tool for dynamic field reconfiguration > of experimental code as part of bug resoloution" dynamic field reconfiguration -- changing? experimental code -- this stuff I'm working on? as part of bug resolution -- while debugging? Oh, you mean "sysctl, the thing I use to help debug this stuff I'm working on"! Well, why didn't you just say so! Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 12:46:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:46:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.spacelines.com ([209.125.7.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA28635 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:46:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from calebm@uspaceware.com) Received: from CALEBM ([209.125.7.146]) by ns1.spacelines.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id MAA19181 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:48:44 -0700 Received: by CALEBM with Microsoft Mail id <01BD9088.27E19890@CALEBM>; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:45:09 -0600 Message-ID: <01BD9088.27E19890@CALEBM> From: "Caleb R. Miller" To: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: FreeBSD as a RTOS Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:45:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA28647 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Does anyone know of a FreeBSD port that supports RTOS functionality such as preemptive multitasking? What I hoping for was a scheduler that would enforce time constraints on processes. For instance, I want to schedule some processes to be allowed to run 4 times/sec, some 2 times/sec and some once/sec. The scheduler would let give the highest rate process time, then the next higher rate, and so on with the caveat that a process gets no more cpu time than it's scheduled for, i.e. if process A is scheduled for every 30 seconds and process B for every 15 seconds, if A is not done by the next 15 second interval it is preempted and B is allowed to run. Thanks for the help! Caleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 13:11:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02679 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:11:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02656 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:10:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@xlink.com) From: info@xlink.com Received: from XLink ([204.118.179.23]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA04183 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:09:48 -0700 (PDT) To: Message-Id: <989.283923.542199 info@xlink.com> Subject: UCE: PC-to-UNIX Connectivity Software Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ************************************************* Come see why Fortune 1000 Companies choose XLink for their PC-to-UNIX integration needs! ************************************************* We know you're busy so we'll be brief. :) XLink Technology, Inc. provides total networking software solutions for now and to the future Visit XLink Technology, Inc. @ http://www.xlink.com if you need help with the following... 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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 13:28:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06267 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:28:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA06035 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:27:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 28823 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1998 20:27:47 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 5 Jun 1998 20:27:47 -0000 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:27:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 2GB NFS file limit in NFS v3? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmmm, I'm mounting some stuff off of a netapp, and unto a version 3.0 FreeBSD client. However, I am unable to create files larger than 2GB under either v2 or v3 nfs. Is this tweakable? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 13:29:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06393 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:29:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06343 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:28:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09631; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806052027.NAA09631@implode.root.com> To: wayne@msen.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Page fault in kernel In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Jun 1998 14:13:38 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 13:27:27 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Based upon the various charters, I assume this is the correct place to >discuss kernel-level problems, if not I'm sure someone will correct me :-) > >We're looking at moving our Diablo-based nntp server from BSD/OS to >FreeBSD. Everything appears mostly OK, except that the machine reboots >every 36 hours or so. Did a bit of digging into the kernel and found >that the MGETHDR at line 432 of kern/uipc_socket.c is returning with >m = 0, which obviously causes the problem two lines later when it's >trying to be used. > >Before I go thrashing around trying to locate this, is this a known >problem with a patch avail? That indicates that you've run out of mbuf clusters. You don't want to do that. You can increase the number with the kernel option: options "NMBCLUSTERS=" Where is a number that is several thousand. You can see the current peak since the system was started with "netstat -m" (the second number in the mbuf clusters ratio is the peak, not the limit). -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 13:30:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06758 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:30:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06643; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12355; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:30:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd012315; Fri Jun 5 13:30:07 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA02383; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:29:56 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806052029.NAA02383@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:29:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Niall Smart" at Jun 5, 98 08:43:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > } Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... > > > > I think you guys are confusing: > > > > "sysctl, the bogus API for TCP RFC conformance twiddling" > > > > with: > > > > "sysctl, the useful tool for dynamic field reconfiguration > > of experimental code as part of bug resoloution" > > dynamic field reconfiguration -- changing? dynamic (in the field) reconfiguration > experimental code -- this stuff I'm working on? experimental "don't bitch, it's not a permamanet condition" code > as part of bug resolution -- while debugging? while remote debugging via email while a schmuck on the other end plays "sysctl robot" for you... > Oh, you mean "sysctl, the thing I use to help debug this stuff > I'm working on"! > > Well, why didn't you just say so! The "I" in "I use" is not the same as the "I" in "I'm working on". 8-p. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 13:31:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06903 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06880 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:31:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from keaggy.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04295 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by keaggy.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05841 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:28:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:28:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: UCE: PC-to-UNIX Connectivity Software In-Reply-To: <989.283923.542199 info@xlink.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG These people actually read their mail, as I was surprised to find out when I replied to some spam I received from them with some choice obscenities. Perhaps with many negative replies, these people will catch a clue. Or maybe not. Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] On Fri, 5 Jun 1998 info@xlink.com wrote: > ************************************************* > Come see why Fortune 1000 Companies choose XLink > for their PC-to-UNIX integration needs! > ************************************************* > > We know you're busy so we'll be brief. :) > > XLink Technology, Inc. provides total networking > software solutions for now and to the future > > Visit XLink Technology, Inc. @ http://www.xlink.com > if you need help with the following... > > Total PC-to-UNIX integration software for the Windows > Platforms: > - NFS Client/Server > - X-Windows > - LPD/LPR > - Terminal Emulation > - All windows platforms > - and more! > > Visit http://www.xlink.com for a FREE demo and more > details! > > Thank you for your time. This is a one time mailing. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 13:36:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07944 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:36:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA07816 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:35:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA07334 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:15:59 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id SAA14646; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:22:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199806051622.SAA14646@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: /kernel: changing root device to st0s1a In-Reply-To: <19980605023329.13460@dog.farm.org> from "Dmitry Kohmanyuk [_______ ________]" at "Jun 5, 98 02:33:29 am" To: dk+@ua.net Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:22:55 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Dmitry Kohmanyuk [_______ ________] wrote... > no, it's not a joke. It's genuine 2.2.6-R dmesg output. > no, this machine doesn't run from a tape, it doesn't ever have it ;_) > > before I dig into sources, have anybody seen this before??? Yep (or more correctly: Da! ;-) My old 486/EISA box does the same, it also pretends it has a tape as root device. Works fine, I ignored it. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 13:36:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08113 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:36:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA07996 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:36:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA07346 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:16:01 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id SAA14733; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:30:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199806051630.SAA14733@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... In-Reply-To: <199806050510.XAA07054@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 98 11:10:29 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:30:15 +0200 (CEST) Cc: dg@root.com, nate@mt.sri.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sjeez.. This kernfs thing seems to have stirred the worst in a lot of people that are normally well known and respected in the *BSD community. I'm obviously missing the finer points why this has developed into a global flamefest. But it be unreasonable to ask for some more patience with one another? [we don't need UN Peacekeepers I hope ;-) ] Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 13:41:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09130 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08995 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:40:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan@dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04321 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09145; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:40:15 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Message-ID: <19980605154015.B8721@emsphone.com> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:40:15 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: info@xlink.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: UCE: PC-to-UNIX Connectivity Software References: <989.283923.542199 info@xlink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.8i In-Reply-To: <989.283923.542199 info@xlink.com>; from "info@xlink.com" on Fri Jun 5 13:09:48 GMT 1998 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Jun 05), info@xlink.com said: > Total PC-to-UNIX integration software for the Windows > Platforms: > - NFS Client/Server > - X-Windows > - LPD/LPR > - Terminal Emulation > - All windows platforms > - and more! I got one of these spams delivered directly to my emailbox on May 27th. I responded with a letter that although their product just MIGHT have been exactly what I'm looking for, I make it a policy to never to business with email spammers. I CC'd the message to their sales address and their upstream provider, verio.net. Didn't get a response from anyone. guess some people never learn -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 13:49:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10890 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:49:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10762 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:48:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA16530; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd016526; Fri Jun 5 20:46:31 1998 Message-ID: <35785923.2C67412E@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 13:46:27 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shiaw Yi Hsieh , johnson@ali.com.tw CC: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.x can't find SIO on ALi M5135 References: <3577D9F3.80754AD7@ali.com.tw> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear sir, I have forwarded your email to the people responsible for the Serial driver. However I had some trouble understanding your email. Your english is much better than my Chinese so please do not take this as a critisism, but as an attempt to clear some points that are unclear in the email. We are thrilled that our problems with the iWill motherboard have been taken seriously and will attempt to assist you in any way possible. I ask some questions below. Shiaw Yi Hsieh wrote: > > Dear sir, > Several month ago, one of our customers name Iwill feedback one > question: > FreeBSD 2.2.5 can not found UART port at Iwill motherboard (use Acer > labs. M5135). This parts is use Intel new technology name--serial IRQ. > and did not found any problem in the other parts such as M5113,M5123 AND > M1543. > And our R&D people made much effort to study how FreeBSD can not found > UART and Tape out a new version to fixed this issue(for 2.2.5). > But after we get the new chip we still have got the following issue: > > 1. FreeBSD boot from CD-ROM PASS > 2. FreeBSD boot from HDD PASS > 3 FreeBSD boot from FDD FAIL > > After we studied the different between boot from CD-ROM,HDD AND FDD > we found the different is in the command and command recovery time when > FreeBSD polling UART's IRQ(read IIR register 2fa,3fa,2ea,3ea). The > recovery time of CD-ROM,HDD is around several us but FDD command > recovery time only 2us. would it possible last the FDD commend recovery > time to over 10us? Your request is for FreeBSD to allow a longer time for IO recovery period after reading FDD registers? If so, then yes we can however, I have a difficulty understanding how the speed of accessing FDD registers affects access to the Serial ports? > Maybe Serial IRQ will take more time when set IIR register and read 8259 > to get the status, so we recommend OS polling or read those IIR register > it is better to last the recovery time to get the 8259 IRQ status. You are saying: we should wait longer to find the interrupt, and maybe poll the IIR register to see if the interrupt has been made? > Another issue is read 8259 IRQ status method, in the parallel IRQ you > can read from edge or level but NEW serial IRQ our chip M5135 only have > got a pulse and not the level. Maybe this is why FreeBSD can not found > UART. possibly. You say that the parallel-Port IRQ and the serial-port IRQ on the same chip behave differently? Surely the serial IRQ must act the same a National Semiconductor NS16450 for compatibility? > Our new chip had been option to change the IRQ from pulse to level, but > in FDD boot still have this issue. Do you have any comments? It is surprising that the FDD boot behaves differently. there is no code difference in FreeBSD if booted from FDD. Maybe the BIOS adjusts the ISA-BUS IO-recover time during FDD operations? After FreeBSD starts, BIOS is disabled so any settings by the BIOS are frozen at that time. > And FreeBSD > test have been put in our chip verify item, so if you release new > version, please mail to us for testting. Thankyou for your assistance! > > If you have any comments please contact me: johnson@ali.com.tw > > Thanks > > JOHNSON CHEN / MANAGER Acer Labs. Inc > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 13:50:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11079 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:50:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA10933 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:49:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 7682 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1998 20:49:43 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 5 Jun 1998 20:49:43 -0000 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:49:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Is the DPT client in -stable usable? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I remember seeing some people were having problems building kernels after 2.2.6 with DPT problems, but didn't see anything about resolution. I just got a new DPT in with firmware 07M0, and it seems to be OK under the stock 2.2.6 kernel, but I want to keep up with developments in -stable, but of course, don't want a non-bootable machine when I'm done. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 14:07:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14620 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:07:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (root@[208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14398 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:06:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-31.camalott.com [208.229.74.31] (may be forged)) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00074; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:04:56 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02287; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:05:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:05:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806052105.QAA02287@detlev.UUCP> To: grog@lemis.com CC: cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19980605152726.G768@freebie.lemis.com> (message from Greg Lehey on Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:27:26 +0930) Subject: Re: style(9) error? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199806042122.QAA00625@swing.ca.sandia.gov> <19980605152726.G768@freebie.lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> I always thought that blocks evaluated to their last statements, but >> it seems not.. > Not in C. You might be thinking of Algol 68 or LISP. Or quite possibly Perl, or the comma construct of C. Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 14:16:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16476 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:16:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16212 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:15:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA00333; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:14:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: "Caleb R. Miller" cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: FreeBSD as a RTOS In-Reply-To: <01BD9088.27E19890@CALEBM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG man [id|rt]prio and wrap your lines On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Caleb R. Miller wrote: > Hello, > > Does anyone know of a FreeBSD port that supports RTOS functionality such as preemptive multitasking? What I hoping for was a scheduler that would enforce time constraints on processes. For instance, I want to schedule some processes to be allowed to run 4 times/sec, some 2 times/sec and some once/sec. The scheduler would let give the highest rate process time, then the next higher rate, and so on with the caveat that a process gets no more cpu time than it's scheduled for, i.e. if process A is scheduled for every 30 seconds and process B for every 15 seconds, if A is not done by the next 15 second interval it is preempted and B is allowed to run. > > Thanks for the help! > Caleb > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 14:25:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19196 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:25:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19091 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:25:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA02416; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma002412; Fri Jun 5 14:24:29 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA02209; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:24:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199806052124.OAA02209@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: style(9) error? In-Reply-To: <199806051138.GAA02086@swing.ca.sandia.gov> from Chris Csanady at "Jun 5, 98 06:38:04 am" To: cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov (Chris Csanady) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Cc: lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at, grog@lemis.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Csanady writes: > Thank you.. This is indeed what I was thinking, and how I read the man > page. I actually did some further looking, and it seems that it is > possble to do this, only using something slightly different. > > #define BLA(x) ({ (x); }) > > This actually works in a conditional, assignment, etc.. evaluating the > block to the last statement as I was expecting. Is there a reason why > the do {} while(0) would be preffered over this? I believe that your definition only works because it's a gcc extra feature. The do {} while (0) method is ANSI compatible. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 16:05:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06785 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:05:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06757 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:05:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gopu@global.com) Received: from batman.global.com (global.com [206.40.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05513 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35787887.7CCCA433@global.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 16:00:23 -0700 From: Gopakumar H Pillai Organization: Global Automation, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Nelson CC: info@xlink.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: UCE: PC-to-UNIX Connectivity Software References: <989.283923.542199 info@xlink.com> <19980605154015.B8721@emsphone.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > guess some people never learn I guess they learn it from your reply. I mean the email address. It is a good policy to not respond to spams, since they confirm your availability through your reply. I don't even think they care about your negative responses. Their idea is simple, Of the thousands of people whom they spam (at no coast or negligible) if 10 people buy their product they are happy. Actually I learned it the hard way. My domain global.com is an attractive one among spammers. They use our domain name or ones which looks similar to it to send spams. And I have to take care of all complaints. One day an angry guy thinking we sent him the spam flooded our mail server with 60,000 mails from a program. Good luck guys. --Gopu Dan Nelson wrote: > > In the last episode (Jun 05), info@xlink.com said: > > Total PC-to-UNIX integration software for the Windows > > Platforms: > > - NFS Client/Server > > - X-Windows > > - LPD/LPR > > - Terminal Emulation > > - All windows platforms > > - and more! > > I got one of these spams delivered directly to my emailbox on May 27th. > I responded with a letter that although their product just MIGHT have > been exactly what I'm looking for, I make it a policy to never to > business with email spammers. > > I CC'd the message to their sales address and their upstream provider, > verio.net. Didn't get a response from anyone. > > guess some people never learn > > -Dan Nelson > dnelson@emsphone.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 16:12:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08202 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:12:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.gamespot.com (ns2.gamespot.com [206.169.18.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08062; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:12:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ian@gamespot.com) Received: from localhost (ian@localhost) by mail.gamespot.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA28259; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:11:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Ian Kallen Reply-To: Ian Kallen To: freebsd-sf@arachna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.ORG, postings@listfoundation.org, sfpug@pootpoot.com Subject: (event 6/11) BAFUG June meeting Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group -- BAFUG -- The Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, June 11. This months meeting will be held at The Silicon Reef in the Mission district of San Francisco. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Agenda: Brian Behlendorf, Core Developer from the Apache Group, will be on hand to discuss (celebrate ;) the release of Apache 1.3. A number of changes were implemented in this release including dynamic shared objects, an autoconf style configuration interface, configuration file modularization and chock full o' other nuts. We won't talk about Apache's support for WindowsNT though, there's another user group in the area for NT, but the new capabilities and portability with Apache are pretty snazzy. Ian Kallen and Josef Grosch will talk about their plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on June 13 at the Robert Austin Computer show at the Cow Palace in Daly City. This effort is aimed at making easing the uninitiated into the joys of running a real server OS on their PC's :) Further details on this project will also be emerging soon, see http://www.freebsd-support.com/install.html Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round. Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at the Silicon Reef in San Francisco. The Silicon Reef is located at 3057 17th St, between Folsom & Harrison Streets. There is plenty parking on the street. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 8:00ish. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions: From the North Bay: Come across the Golden Gate bridge. Follow 101 which turns into Lombard Street. At Van Ness Ave. turn right. Continue south on Van Ness until 17th st. Take a left on to 17th. From the East Bay: Come across the Bay bridge and get off at the 5th street exit. Take a left on to Harrison. Follow Harrison to 17th. Take a right on to 17th. From the South Bay and Peninsula Take 101 North to San Francisco, Get off at Vermont Ave. exit. Turn left on to Vermont Ave. At 17th Street take a left on to 17th. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs http://www.arachna.com/freebsd/freebsd-sf.html http://www.reef.com/ Contact: Ian Kallen can be reached at ian@gamespot.com Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 19:33:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06589 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 19:33:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06582 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 19:33:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02622; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806060128.SAA02622@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Caleb R. Miller" cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: FreeBSD as a RTOS In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Jun 1998 13:45:08 MDT." <01BD9088.27E19890@CALEBM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 18:28:40 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please expend a little effort formatting your messages; you are likely to find people much more disposed to responding to them if you do this. > Does anyone know of a FreeBSD port that supports RTOS functionality > such as preemptive multitasking? FreeBSD already supports preemtive multitasking. > What I hoping for was a scheduler that > would enforce time constraints on processes. The current scheduler already enforces time constraints on processes. > For instance, I want to > schedule some processes to be allowed to run 4 times/sec, some 2 times/ > sec and some once/sec. If this is the sort of granularity you require, you can achieve this with the current (10ms) scheduler granularity already. > The scheduler would let give the highest rate > process time, then the next higher rate, and so on with the caveat that > a process gets no more cpu time than it's scheduled for, i.e. if process > A is scheduled for every 30 seconds and process B for every 15 seconds, > if A is not done by the next 15 second interval it is preempted and B is > allowed to run. Whilst there are various realtime extensions to FreeBSD available and under development, I don't think that any of them offer anything that you require. If you require more information on the topic before going further, you may want to collect a book on the various Posix realtime scheduling extensions, which are available for FreeBSD on an evaluation basis, and which will be part of the 3.0 release Q4 this year. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 20:04:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10465 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA10303 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:03:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02769; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806060157.SAA02769@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Julian Elischer cc: Shiaw Yi Hsieh , johnson@ali.com.tw, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.x can't find SIO on ALi M5135 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Jun 1998 13:46:27 PDT." <35785923.2C67412E@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 18:57:53 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have forwarded your email to the people responsible for the Serial > driver. > However I had some trouble understanding your email. > Your english is much better than my Chinese so please do not > take this as a critisism, but as an attempt to clear some points that > are unclear in the email. > > We are thrilled that our problems with the iWill motherboard have been > taken seriously and will attempt to assist you in any way possible. I would second this and say that the opportunity to resolve this issue with Acer Labs is greatly appreciated. We strive to achieve the highest level of hardware compatibility possible, and direct dialog with vendors is the best method of realising this. Being slightly more familiar with the issues at hand, I may be able to clarify both some of the original message and also your questions. > Shiaw Yi Hsieh wrote: > > > > Dear sir, > > Several month ago, one of our customers name Iwill feedback one > > question: > > FreeBSD 2.2.5 can not found UART port at Iwill motherboard (use Acer > > labs. M5135). This parts is use Intel new technology name--serial IRQ. > > and did not found any problem in the other parts such as M5113,M5123 AND > > M1543. > > And our R&D people made much effort to study how FreeBSD can not found > > UART and Tape out a new version to fixed this issue(for 2.2.5). > > But after we get the new chip we still have got the following issue: > > > > 1. FreeBSD boot from CD-ROM PASS > > 2. FreeBSD boot from HDD PASS > > 3 FreeBSD boot from FDD FAIL > > > > After we studied the different between boot from CD-ROM,HDD AND FDD > > we found the different is in the command and command recovery time when > > FreeBSD polling UART's IRQ(read IIR register 2fa,3fa,2ea,3ea). The > > recovery time of CD-ROM,HDD is around several us but FDD command > > recovery time only 2us. would it possible last the FDD commend recovery > > time to over 10us? > > Your request is for FreeBSD to allow a longer time > for IO recovery period after reading FDD registers? I believe the reference is to the behaviour of the interrupt handler when reading the UART IIR; their observations indicate that the IIR is read extremely quickly following the interrupt itself, and that they observed a shorter delay when booted from FDD than when booted from CDROM or HDD. There should be no difference at all in the interrupt response time based on the device from which FreeBSD was booted, however there may be many other factors affecting the situation. In order to optimise serial port performance, FreeBSD uses an extremely aggressive interrupt handling mechanism. I would assume from the request that the ALI M5135 does not set the IIR bits until *after* it has completed the Serial IRQ protocol - can you confirm this? This should not affect the probe process, however it might adversely affect the performance of the port in actual use. > > Another issue is read 8259 IRQ status method, in the parallel IRQ you > > can read from edge or level but NEW serial IRQ our chip M5135 only have > > got a pulse and not the level. Maybe this is why FreeBSD can not found > > UART. Your point here is that if the 8259 is programmed to latch the interrupt, it will not indicate that an interrupt delivered by the Serial IRQ protocol is still driven after being latched? This would cause problems with the FreeBSD serial port probe code, which expects the UART to drive the interrupt signal until the interrupt cause is cleared. The only resolution for this is in software, as it would appear to be a feature of the Intel PIIX4. > You say that the parallel-Port IRQ and the serial-port IRQ on the same > chip behave differently? Surely the serial IRQ must act the same a > National Semiconductor NS16450 for compatibility? No, you are confusing the interrupt delivery mechanism (parallel or serial) with the ports on the M5135. For more information, see the Intel PIIX4 documentation. > > Our new chip had been option to change the IRQ from pulse to level, but > > in FDD boot still have this issue. Do you have any comments? > > It is surprising that the FDD boot behaves differently. > there is no code difference in FreeBSD if booted from FDD. > Maybe the BIOS adjusts the ISA-BUS IO-recover time during FDD > operations? The Serial IRQ protocol requires a total of over 100 clock cycles (about 3us) to register an interrupt. From the time that (eg.) IRQ4 is transmitted there are still approx. 2.8us remaining before the end of the protocol. If the M5135 does not set bits in the IIR until *after* the serial IRQ protocol is complete, it is not unlikely that the FreeBSD interrupt handler will have already read the IIR and discarded the interrupt as spurious. Bruce; this is definitely one for you. Can we delay the IIR read without adversely affecting the overall performance of the interrupt handler? Also, do we depend elsewhere on the dual edge/level IRQ signal behaviour? There is no clarification I can find in the Intel documentation for the PIIX4 indicating the behaviour of the ISR/IRR registers in the presence of Serial IRQ inputs. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 21:35:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17700 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:35:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17690 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:35:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04185 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:35:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806060435.VAA04185@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: http://hegel.ittc.ukans.edu/projects/smartgdb/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 21:35:45 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone ported or worked with smartgdb? Tnks, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 22:26:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA24442 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:26:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA24280 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:25:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29594; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd029538; Fri Jun 5 22:25:34 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA28704; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:25:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806060525.WAA28704@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: style(9) error? To: joelh@gnu.org Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:25:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, cc@swing.ca.sandia.gov, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806052105.QAA02287@detlev.UUCP> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Jun 5, 98 04:05:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> I always thought that blocks evaluated to their last statements, but > >> it seems not.. > > Not in C. You might be thinking of Algol 68 or LISP. > > Or quite possibly Perl, or the comma construct of C. This is a common misconception. The "return" value being examined is actually the normal register used for return values. This (incorrectly) presumes a calling convention. Don't use it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 5 22:38:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25553 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:38:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25474 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:37:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02165; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:37:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd002153; Fri Jun 5 22:37:36 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA29354; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:37:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806060537.WAA29354@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD as a RTOS To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:37:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: calebm@uspaceware.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806060128.SAA02622@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Jun 5, 98 06:28:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Does anyone know of a FreeBSD port that supports RTOS functionality > > such as preemptive multitasking? > > FreeBSD already supports preemtive multitasking. FreeBSD doesn't support kernel preeemption based on a waited resource coming available at interrupt time. Topologically, there is no difference between kernel threading, SMP, and kernel preemption. It's mostly tagged based on the resource, not the event, but the event is what's interesting. > > What I hoping for was a scheduler that > > would enforce time constraints on processes. > > The current scheduler already enforces time constraints on processes. I think he means "deadlining". The real issue with deadlining is priority inversion. The standard method of handling inversion is priority lending (not preemption). With lending, it may take a "long time" to run to completion, since there is a dependence on non-RT aware code. Preemption is problematic, however, since non-RT code is not written with the expectation of a higher priority task preempting. > > For instance, I want to > > schedule some processes to be allowed to run 4 times/sec, some 2 times/ > > sec and some once/sec. > > If this is the sort of granularity you require, you can achieve this > with the current (10ms) scheduler granularity already. Actually, you can only achive this statistically, even with RTPRIO; this is because of the inversion issue. > > The scheduler would let give the highest rate > > process time, then the next higher rate, and so on with the caveat that > > a process gets no more cpu time than it's scheduled for, i.e. if process > > A is scheduled for every 30 seconds and process B for every 15 seconds, > > if A is not done by the next 15 second interval it is preempted and B is > > allowed to run. This is called a "fixed scheduling class". This is what SVR4.2 implements for X servers. The reality is that this is bogus, because what they are doing is implementing a time division instead of a priority. The various requisite pages are still swapped out (for example, with the SVR4 "ld" program), and the time is spent swapping the pages back in. The problem is *really* that the working set for a non-RT process does not have a quota associated with it. > Whilst there are various realtime extensions to FreeBSD available and > under development, I don't think that any of them offer anything that > you require. If you require more information on the topic before going > further, you may want to collect a book on the various Posix realtime > scheduling extensions, which are available for FreeBSD on an evaluation > basis, and which will be part of the 3.0 release Q4 this year. The POSIX RT mechanisms don't support "deadlining", which is the only "real" RT, IMO. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 02:39:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA13270 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 02:39:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA13248 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 02:39:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA09885; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:15:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199806060915.FAA09885@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: [Fwd: FW: Adapting FreeBSD to be a RTOS] In-Reply-To: <35782846.ABD322C@whistle.com> from Julian Elischer at "Jun 5, 98 10:17:58 am" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, calebm@uspaceware.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Caleb R. Miller wrote: > > > > What I was looking for was a version of FreeBSD that had > > preemptive multitasking such that processes can run at > > different rates and get preempted if they don't complete > > within the assigned time. I did find a version of Linux > > that has a real-time kernel and that runs Linux as a process. > > I was wondering if anyone had done a similar thing with > > FreeBSD or had modified the FreeBSD kernel to do > > preemptive multitasking. There is nothing yet except "rtprio" / POSIX fixed priority scheduler. The processes will preempt, but the kernel is not reentrant. I don't know if this is what you want. I'm sketching out something for SMP or a time multiplexed kernel. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 03:00:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA15802 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 03:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA15795 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 03:00:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA09928; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:35:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199806060935.FAA09928@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD as a RTOS In-Reply-To: <199806060537.WAA29354@usr08.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jun 6, 98 05:37:23 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, calebm@uspaceware.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > The scheduler would let give the highest rate > > > process time, then the next higher rate, and so on with the caveat that > > > a process gets no more cpu time than it's scheduled for, i.e. if process > > > A is scheduled for every 30 seconds and process B for every 15 seconds, > > > if A is not done by the next 15 second interval it is preempted and B is > > > allowed to run. > > This is called a "fixed scheduling class". This is what SVR4.2 implements > for X servers. The reality is that this is bogus, because what they are > doing is implementing a time division instead of a priority. The various > requisite pages are still swapped out (for example, with the SVR4 "ld" > program), and the time is spent swapping the pages back in. The problem > is *really* that the working set for a non-RT process does not have a quota > associated with it. This is useful for some people. I've seen this referred to as a frame scheduler and it is used in real time simulations - you have an update rate for the overall simulation, and then budget the time to the pieces of the simulation the way we used to assign people an 8K block of memory for a given task way back when. It is a simple reliable model that you can obviously achieve other ways. My ideas about real real time involve SMP or a degraded time multiplexed CPU, priority inheritence, and detection of non realtime safe conditions generating signals to the concerned processes so that you can detect and avoid unsafe situations with resource assignment. Obviously the last item is intended to happen only in a development stage. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 04:24:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25363 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 04:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA25356 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 04:24:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199806061124.EAA25356@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA142572253; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 21:24:13 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: ECONNREFUSED on a READ? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 21:24:13 +1000 (EST) Cc: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806051932.NAA11091@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Jun 5, 98 01:32:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Nate Williams, sie said: > > > > > So we have a socket, make a connection on it, sendto on it, then do a > > recvfrom on it and get an error. > > > > I'm seeing this on a > > FreeBSD 3.0-971110-SNAP #0: Sat Jan 6 23:54:11 EST 1996 > > root@c064:/usr/src/sys/compile/SMP-CLUSTER > > > > On almost any program. > > Do you have a short program that demonstrates this bug? I'd like to see > if this is the same sort of problem that the JDK is seeing, since it > sounds like it. Sounds perfectly normal to me. I imagine you'd get the ECONNRESET on whichever you do next for the socket - be it write or read. Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 07:22:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06491 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:22:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06486; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:22:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01934; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 14:21:56 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA08691; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 16:21:11 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980606162110.46376@follo.net> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 16:21:10 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Terry Lambert , dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... References: <199806040441.XAA00768@dyson.iquest.net> <199806041809.LAA01972@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199806041809.LAA01972@usr05.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Thu, Jun 04, 1998 at 06:09:05PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 04, 1998 at 06:09:05PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > Speaking of which, is it stable enough for people without commit > privs to wade back into the pool and start flinging patches yet? It > seems that you had some SMP patches that you wanted to flesh out and > commit, and Peter has announced some NFS patches, and Michael has yet > to commit his vput() changes, and that it would be a good idea to > wait on them before slogging back in to restart work on the > reconstruction... Given that Michael doesn't have commit access and hasn't AFAIK done any vput() changes (I certain hope he hasn't), I guess you're talking about my vput() changes (adding a proc argument). I've run with them here for a week without any problem (under various loads), and I'm waiting for Peter Wemm to test them under NFS. If they pass, I guess they might be safe enough to commit - I don't think they should be able to cause heavy instability. I don't claim to understand all interactions in the FS area, though, so I feel slightly uncomfortable... Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 07:25:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06783 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:25:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from usc.usc.unal.edu.co ([200.21.26.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA06773 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:25:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from unalmodem17.usc.unal.edu.co by usc.usc.unal.edu.co (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA18018; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:06:41 -0400 Message-Id: <357950E3.51F37EC1@asme.org> Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 09:23:32 -0500 From: Pedro Giffuni Organization: Progen Ltda. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Guy Harris Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: POSIX 1003.1-1996-style SA_SIGINFO signals in FreeBSD? References: <199806051953.MAA05129@tooting.netapp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Re-directed to hackers) Guy Harris wrote: > Somebody in "comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine" wanted to catch SIGSEGV and > get the fault address to implement some stuff in Wine. > > I looked at the 2.2.6 source, and the only way I found of getting the > fault address was to find the trap frame via information in the signal > context (I assume you can do that, I didn't check in detail) and extract > it from "tf_err" in the trap frame (which appears to be where it gets > stuffed by the page fault trap handler). > > It's a bit easier in SVR4-flavored systems, as you can establish the > signal handler with SA_SIGINFO set in "sa_flags" and extract it from the > "siginfo_t" structure a pointer to which is passed to the handler as its > second argument. At least some of that is also specified by the 1996 > edition of POSIX 1003.1 (I didn't check whether it specifies a fault > address for SIGSEGV or not). > > Are there any plans to put that into, say, FreeBSD 3.0? Any idea if any > of the other BSDs do it? > OpenBSD has it, from http://www.openbsd.org/plus.html#21 * A SA_SIGINFO implementation for sigaction() and signal handlers. This is a small part of POSIX 1003.1b and permits the signal handler to figure out the exact cause of a signal; such as fault address information for SIGSEGV or more detailed information for SIGFPE. No idea if this is already on current. Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 08:27:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13096 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 08:27:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13089 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 08:27:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26555 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:29:03 GMT Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:29:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Alfred Perlstein To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: current build breakage (fwd) - fix Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG fixed myself, could someone please remove the word "nochange" from: /usr/src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist on lines 58 and (around) 608 the build seems to be working now. thanks -Alfred ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:14:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Alfred Perlstein To: current@freebsd.org Subject: current build breakage as of ~11am EST on -current: missing: ./tmp (created) missing: ./tmp/vi.recover (created) missing: ./yp (created) if [ -d /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/share/locale ] ; then cd /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/share/locale; for l in da_DK de_AT de_CH de_DE en_AU en_CA en_GB en_US es_ES fi_FI fr_BE fr_CA fr_CH fr_FR is_IS it_CH it_IT nl_BE nl_NL no_NO pt_PT sv_SE ; do if [ -h $l.ISO_8859-1 ]; then rm $l.ISO_8859-1; fi ; done; fi mtree -deU -f /usr/src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr mtree: line 58: unknown keyword nochange *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. # -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 10:17:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24416 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:17:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles171.castles.com [208.214.165.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24410; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:16:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00688; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806061612.JAA00688@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: bsd mailing lists cc: Andrew Stesin , questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Alpha -- ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 16:01:12 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 09:12:00 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am interested too in the FreeBS Alpha porting > whi I can ask for this? > thanks What do you want to ask about it? Or do you have a system and are you willing and able to work on it? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 10:30:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26077 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:30:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26045 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:30:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08575; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:30:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199806061730.KAA08575@austin.polstra.com> To: mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: Recompiling sources with "-O2 -m486 -pipe" In-Reply-To: <199806040546.WAA00663@antipodes.cdrom.com> References: <199806040546.WAA00663@antipodes.cdrom.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 10:30:35 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199806040546.WAA00663@antipodes.cdrom.com>, Mike Smith wrote: > I would still advise against anything over -O. I have certainly seen > strange (bad) problems with code built with -O2 and above, and I can do > without the grief. I generally stay away from -O2 myself, out of superstition more than anything else. But I noticed that it's used throughout "make release", so it must not be too problematic. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 11:18:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA03025 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 11:18:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02999 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 11:18:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04752; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 13:18:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806061818.NAA04752@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: [Fwd: FW: Adapting FreeBSD to be a RTOS] In-Reply-To: <199806060915.FAA09885@hda.hda.com> from Peter Dufault at "Jun 6, 98 05:15:19 am" To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 13:18:02 -0500 (EST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, calebm@uspaceware.com From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Dufault said: > > I'm sketching out something for SMP or a time multiplexed kernel. > If you keep me up to date with some ideas (I can take any kind of display format), it will allow me to keep up with the parts of the code that I can help with. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 11:54:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06364 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 11:54:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06328; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 11:54:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04329; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 11:54:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004315; Sat Jun 6 11:54:05 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA22360; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 11:53:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806061853.LAA22360@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 18:53:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980606162110.46376@follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Jun 6, 98 04:21:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Given that Michael doesn't have commit access and hasn't AFAIK done > any vput() changes (I certain hope he hasn't), I guess you're talking > about my vput() changes (adding a proc argument). Yes, soryy for giving away your work... > I've run with them here for a week without any problem (under various > loads), and I'm waiting for Peter Wemm to test them under NFS. If > they pass, I guess they might be safe enough to commit - I don't think > they should be able to cause heavy instability. I don't claim to > understand all interactions in the FS area, though, so I feel slightly > uncomfortable... It's a plate of wet spaghetti. You have to pull one strand at a time and lay it out straight to have any hope of it fitting neatly into the box it came in (John Heidemann's design). 8-|. Are your vput changes available to be looked at anywhere? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 12:04:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07828 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:04:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA07822 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:04:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA14434 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 6 Jun 1998 21:01:58 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id VAA02302 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 21:06:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199806061906.VAA02302@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Dutch hackersparty info now on Web To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 21:06:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For those of you interested, please check out the information on http://www.tcja.nl/hackersparty The event is slowly getting an international aspect: (preliminary) registrations have been received from Denmark, the USA, Germany and Holland. Please let us know what you think/want! Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 16:57:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12743 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 16:57:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12610 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 16:56:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id BAA14881; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:56:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00528; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 19:20:55 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from wosch) To: dg@root.com Cc: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? References: <199806022254.PAA18138@implode.root.com> From: Wolfram Schneider Date: 06 Jun 1998 19:20:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: David Greenman's message of Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:54:48 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 17 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This information should be at the /newsflash.html page. Can someon write a short paragraph (3-5 lines) about the upcoming FreeBSD BoF? Wolfram David Greenman writes: > > Maybe I lost some incoming emails, but is there any plans/whatever > > for FreeBSD BOF or whatever, at annual USENIX conference this month? > > Who will be visiting there? > > About half of the core team, I believe. Me, Jordan, Justin, Poul-Henning, > just to name a few. Yes, there will be a FreeBSD BoF. -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.de.freebsd.org/~w/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 17:37:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17079 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 17:37:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17067 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 17:37:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10437; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 17:36:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Wolfram Schneider cc: dg@root.com, Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? In-reply-to: Your message of "06 Jun 1998 19:20:52 +0200." Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 17:36:51 -0700 Message-ID: <10433.897179811@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rather than put something in for the BOF itself, why not just advertise the whole FREENIX track at Usenix this year? The actual FreeBSD BOF is probably going to end up being the _least_ interesting FreeBSD event at the show. :-) - Jordan > > This information should be at the /newsflash.html page. > Can someon write a short paragraph (3-5 lines) about the > upcoming FreeBSD BoF? > > Wolfram > > David Greenman writes: > > > Maybe I lost some incoming emails, but is there any plans/whatever > > > for FreeBSD BOF or whatever, at annual USENIX conference this month? > > > Who will be visiting there? > > > > About half of the core team, I believe. Me, Jordan, Justin, Poul-Henning , > > just to name a few. Yes, there will be a FreeBSD BoF. > > -- > Wolfram Schneider http://www.de.freebsd.org/~w/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 6 21:53:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05915 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 21:53:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05906 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 21:53:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id AAA22181; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 00:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 00:52:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Wolfram Schneider , dg@root.com, Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annual USENIX conference, any plans? In-Reply-To: <10433.897179811@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As a side note, are the people giving talks going to be making their papers and slides available on say a central freebsd.org page? Like a "Papers of the '98 FreeBSD BoF track" page? I'd really like to see that :) Chris -- "I don't do favors, I accumulate debts" ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message