From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 07:16:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02558 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:16:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [192.35.17.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02551 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:16:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de (at relayer david.siemens.de) Received: from mail.siemens.de (salomon.siemens.de [139.23.33.13]) by david.siemens.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12995 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:15:53 +0100 (MET) Received: from curry.mchp.siemens.de (daemon@curry.mchp.siemens.de [146.180.31.23]) by mail.siemens.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA04059 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:15:55 +0100 (MET) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by curry.mchp.siemens.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11187 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:15:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981115161548.A23869@internal> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:15:48 +0100 From: Andre Albsmeier To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, while installing xlockmore, I noticed that its mode is 4111 for root. I think this is because it has to access the encrypted user passwords. Wouldn't it be generally a good idea to make the /etc/spwd.db and the /etc/master.passwd file 640 and give them to a newly created group? Then programs like xlockmore could be made setgid newgroup instead of setuid root which always makes me a little nervous. For example: root@voyager:~>ll /etc/spwd.db /etc/master.passwd -rw-r----- 1 root pw - 828 Nov 15 12:43 /etc/master.passwd -rw-r----- 1 root pw - 40960 Nov 15 12:43 /etc/spwd.db root@voyager:~>ll /usr/X11R6/bin/xlock ---x--s--x 1 root pw - 126976 Oct 1 08:17 /usr/X11R6/bin/xlock* What do you think? Will it make my systems more insecure with the above stuff or not? If not, wouldn't it make sense to incorporate the changes into FreeBSD? IMHO they break nothing since all programs can continue to access /etc/spwd.db and /etc/master.passwd in the old way but the new method would be possible as well. Thanks a lot, -Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 07:32:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04239 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:32:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA04234 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:32:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA06009 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:31:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:31:47 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 To: hackers Subject: Question on chroot() Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am quite confused with the usage of chroot(). It is said that chroot() can only be performed by superuser and the chroot()'ed environment is valid only for superuser that calls chroot() and its descendent (I assume that a descendent inherits its parent's UID). However, a root can escape the environment withoud much difficulty. I even find on the Web a page telling you how to break the chroot jail by root. With these in mind, I can not figure out why the chroot() is really useful to set up a ristricted access to a system and how a NORMAL user can be setup to access only the chroot()'ed environment. Any help is appreciated. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 07:37:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05106 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:37:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alive.znep.com (207-178-54-226.go2net.com [207.178.54.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA05101 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:37:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA04682; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:32:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:32:01 -0800 (PST) From: Marc Slemko To: zhihuizhang cc: hackers Subject: Re: Question on chroot() In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 15 Nov 1998, zhihuizhang wrote: > > I am quite confused with the usage of chroot(). It is said that chroot() > can only be performed by superuser and the chroot()'ed environment is > valid only for superuser that calls chroot() and its descendent (I assume > that a descendent inherits its parent's UID). > > However, a root can escape the environment withoud much difficulty. I > even find on the Web a page telling you how to break the chroot jail by > root. > > With these in mind, I can not figure out why the chroot() is really useful > to set up a ristricted access to a system and how a NORMAL user can be > setup to access only the chroot()'ed environment. I'm not sure if this is really freebsd-hackers material, but... Nothing stops root from switching to whatever other UID they want. So all you have to do is chroot(), then setuid() to some user before running whatever you want to run. It is also useful to provide isolated environments for cases where security isn't an issue, eg. build trees for things that do things relative to "/", etc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 09:14:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13692 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:14:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA13682 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:14:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbws.vastnet.net (port15.netsvr1.cst.vastnet.net [207.252.73.15]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA21850 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:15:05 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981115121552.006cc944@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:15:54 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Dennis Subject: pmap_remove_pages problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Every few days I have a 2.2.7-RELEASE machine that panics in the pmap_remove_pages routing. Its usually in the middle of night when nothing is going on. When is this function called, and what might be the cause of the problem? Note that the same problem occurred in 2.2.6, so its not a bad kernel build. Thanks, Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 09:32:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15453 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:32:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from root.com (root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15448 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:32:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@root.com) Received: from root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03798; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:33:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811151733.JAA03798@root.com> To: Dennis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pmap_remove_pages problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:15:54 EST." <3.0.32.19981115121552.006cc944@etinc.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:33:11 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Every few days I have a 2.2.7-RELEASE machine that panics in the >pmap_remove_pages routing. Its usually in the middle of night when >nothing is going on. > >When is this function called, and what might be the cause of the >problem? Note that the same problem occurred in 2.2.6, so its not >a bad kernel build. A stack traceback might be useful. pmap_remove_pages is called when a process execs or exits in order to remove any and all pages in the process address space. Panics in it often indicate damage to the physical to virtual (pv) lists that happened sometime earlier, and is usually not related to the events going on at the time. Usually the problem is caused by improper management of virtual memory while in an interrupt context, but could have other causes. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 09:57:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16996 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:57:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles249.castles.com [208.214.165.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16991 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:57:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA13251; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811151756.JAA13251@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: zhihuizhang cc: hackers Subject: Re: Question on chroot() In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:31:47 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:56:32 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I am quite confused with the usage of chroot(). It is said that chroot() > can only be performed by superuser and the chroot()'ed environment is > valid only for superuser that calls chroot() and its descendent (I assume > that a descendent inherits its parent's UID). > > However, a root can escape the environment withoud much difficulty. I > even find on the Web a page telling you how to break the chroot jail by > root. > > With these in mind, I can not figure out why the chroot() is really useful > to set up a ristricted access to a system and how a NORMAL user can be > setup to access only the chroot()'ed environment. Breaking out of a chroot'ed environment is less easy if you're not root, so when it's used for security purposes, the chroot() call is made as root as part of the login process, and then root priviledges are surrendered. See how login() arranges for the login shell to run as the user, while itself running as root to access the password database. However, chroot() is more usful as a functional tool, allowing you to perform tasks that expect to operate on a system-wide scope without having them actually change your system. Eg. we use chroot to provide an environment for building the FreeBSD package collection, where packages must be installed and removed on a frequent basis, without actually affecting the package set installed on the host system. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 09:59:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17269 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:59:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17264; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:59:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15108; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:58:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:58:22 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199811151758.JAA15108@apollo.backplane.com> To: Andre Albsmeier Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? References: <19981115161548.A23869@internal> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Hi, : :while installing xlockmore, I noticed that its mode is 4111 for root. :... : :Wouldn't it be generally a good idea to make the /etc/spwd.db and :the /etc/master.passwd file 640 and give them to a newly created : :root@voyager:~>ll /usr/X11R6/bin/xlock :---x--s--x 1 root pw - 126976 Oct 1 08:17 /usr/X11R6/bin/xlock* : :What do you think? Will it make my systems more insecure with the :above stuff or not? If not, wouldn't it make sense to incorporate :the changes into FreeBSD? IMHO they break nothing since all programs :... : : -Andre I think this is an excellent idea. A similar method is used for the 'operator' group, to allow the dumper to dump disks without giving him write access to them. Another thing that would be nice would be to give certain user id's the ability to listen on low-numbered sockets without giving the rest of the users that ability. Without going to full-blown capabilities, and adding a sysctl to turn it on, I think we could reserve some gid_t values to mean certain things. For example, a user in group 0x80000001 would be allowed to bind to low-numbered ports. A user in group 0x80000002 would be allowed to chown files away in mode 01000 directories (allowing a mode 01740 directories to be controlled by a non-root program, but accessible by users, aka /var/mail). And so on. Immediate uses that I can see: * bind (has a user run mode, but then can't rebind on ifc changes) * sendmail (currently run under user with special hacks only) * popper (run as root) * imapd (run as root) * xterm (suid root for utmp access) -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 10:32:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20099 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:32:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [192.35.17.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20094 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:32:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de (at relayer david.siemens.de) Received: from mail.siemens.de (salomon.siemens.de [139.23.33.13]) by david.siemens.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA24846 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:22:27 +0100 (MET) Received: from curry.mchp.siemens.de (daemon@curry.mchp.siemens.de [146.180.31.23]) by mail.siemens.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA15919 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:22:29 +0100 (MET) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by curry.mchp.siemens.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12244 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:22:28 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981115192224.A29686@internal> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:22:24 +0100 From: Andre Albsmeier To: Matthew Dillon , Andre Albsmeier Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? References: <19981115161548.A23869@internal> <199811151758.JAA15108@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199811151758.JAA15108@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 09:58:22AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 09:58:22AM -0800, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > :Hi, > : > :while installing xlockmore, I noticed that its mode is 4111 for root. > :... > : > :Wouldn't it be generally a good idea to make the /etc/spwd.db and > :the /etc/master.passwd file 640 and give them to a newly created > : > :root@voyager:~>ll /usr/X11R6/bin/xlock > :---x--s--x 1 root pw - 126976 Oct 1 08:17 /usr/X11R6/bin/xlock* > : > :What do you think? Will it make my systems more insecure with the > :above stuff or not? If not, wouldn't it make sense to incorporate > :the changes into FreeBSD? IMHO they break nothing since all programs > :... > : > : -Andre > > I think this is an excellent idea. A similar method is used for > the 'operator' group, to allow the dumper to dump disks without > giving him write access to them. OK, and I already thought it might be stupid/insecure/not_working doing so because it's rather simple and nobody has come up with it before. But with my paranoia about setuid root stuff, I finally decided to ask now :-) > Another thing that would be nice would be to give certain user id's > the ability to listen on low-numbered sockets without giving the rest > of the users that ability. > > Without going to full-blown capabilities, and adding a sysctl to turn > it on, I think we could reserve some gid_t values to mean certain > things. For example, a user in group 0x80000001 would be allowed > to bind to low-numbered ports. A user in group 0x80000002 would be > allowed to chown files away in mode 01000 directories (allowing a > mode 01740 directories to be controlled by a non-root program, but > accessible by users, aka /var/mail). And so on. > > Immediate uses that I can see: > > * bind (has a user run mode, but then can't rebind on ifc > changes) > * sendmail (currently run under user with special hacks only) > * popper (run as root) > * imapd (run as root) At least with popper (although I use cucipop) I think its difficult because I deliver mail to my users homedirs. > * xterm (suid root for utmp access) Yes, this is another candidate. Is the setuid root permission really only used to access /var/run/utmp? Let's see what the others say... -Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 11:09:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22723 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:09:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from foobar.franken.de (foobar.franken.de [194.94.249.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22715 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:08:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from logix@foobar.franken.de) Received: (from logix@localhost) by foobar.franken.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA16653; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:08:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981115200813.B12524@foobar.franken.de> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:08:13 +0100 From: Harold Gutch To: Mike Smith , zhihuizhang Cc: hackers Subject: Re: Question on chroot() References: <199811151756.JAA13251@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199811151756.JAA13251@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 09:56:32AM -0800 X-Organisation: BatmanSystemDistribution X-Mission: To free the world from the Penguin Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 09:56:32AM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > Breaking out of a chroot'ed environment is less easy if you're not > root Is this meant to be read as "more or less impossible", that is, impossible unless the user can become root first (due to insecure suid-root binaries in the chroot-environment etc.), or can users really break out in more or less every situation (of course assuming stuff like that they don't have any open filehandles pointing to the outside in the beginning). -- bye, logix Sleep is an abstinence syndrome wich occurs due to lack of caffein. Wed Mar 4 04:53:33 CET 1998 #unix, ircnet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 11:14:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23128 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:14:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23120 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:14:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14382; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:13:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd014371; Sun Nov 15 12:13:44 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA27668; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:13:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811151913.MAA27668@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: [Vinum] Stupid benchmark: newfsstone To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:13:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, mike@smith.net.au, peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811150651.WAA10105@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Nov 14, 98 10:51:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Actually, I could see it being *very* useful for copying data between > > plexes on different volumes for the purpose of replication. > > How? Please note the quantum effects I've mentioned previously, and > note that the only useful way to overcome them is to enable buffering > at both ends of the queue. Please also study the internal architecture > of most SCSI disks and note the almost total decoupling between the > head/spindle location and the availability of a request for > presentation to the bus. > > Spindle sync was useful back when data off the drive was basically the > output of the head preamp or the data separator. It's not noticeably > useful as soon as you allow the drive to do things for it's own reasons. It's not clear to me that spindle sync, with various drive performance features enabled, actually refers to anything more than cylinder selection; i.e., that you couldn't argue that drive-level optimizations, e.g., write caching, are lower level than spindle sync. In other words, at what level do you actually engage in synchronization? > > Bringing a new disk online in a RAID 5 array could also use this > > to advantage. > > What you want is the SCSI COPY command. Yes. And if the second drive never had to seek except when the first was also seeking, and seeking took the same time because the rotation rates were the same and the seek was between the same cylinder... > > Finally, if a disk could be made to talk to itself (unlikely, but > > some vendor probably neglected to prevent it by checking for the > > same source/target ID, I hope 8-)), it would be useful for various > > intra-disk transfers of data, as well. > > This is beyond far-fetched. Well, hence the "I hope" and the smiley. It'd be nice to be able to abuse SCSI COPY for this. > > Compared to the normal recalculation time on a new hot-swap on a > > large array, I would think that even though it's expensive, it > > would be less expensive than the alternative of having to do the > > same thing anyway, *and* transfer the SCSI data in an out of host > > memory over, best case, a PCI bus. > > This has nothing to do with array reconstruction. Having just watched > Event Horizon, I can imagine how your brain got here, but you're > completely crossed up. Go back. OK, say that I was reconstructing, not from parity, but from copies of plexes on other disks, and I guaranteed that any given plex would exist on two disks in the array; the one that failed, and the one that didn't. Say further that I calculated my parity across plexes, not across units, so the parity was across a virtual unit instead of a real unit, such that I didn't have to recalculate parity in the default case of a signle unit failure. > > > That's something that the user should take care of. Any power-of-2 > > > stripe size is likely to work out OK, as CG's are currently 32MB. > > > > Hm. Maybe the tools should limit this, or at least "bitch", in the > > same sense that disklabel puts up little asterisks... > > Disklabel should stop putting them up. They're not meaningful anymore. > It's arguable as to whether it actually matters whether CG's fragment > across stripe boundaries either. Well, that's rather irrelevent. I meant that the stripe size setting tool should put up asterisks on non-powers of two, if you didn't want it to outright disallow them. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 11:19:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23544 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:19:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23493 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:17:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15078; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:17:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd015054; Sun Nov 15 12:17:29 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA27750; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:16:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811151916.MAA27750@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: [Vinum] Stupid benchmark: newfsstone To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:16:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, ticso@cicely.de, peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811150656.WAA10149@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Nov 14, 98 10:56:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I'll tell you what: anybody who wants, go and look at the request > > > building code in /usr/src/lkm/vinum/request.c and rebuild it to > > > perform the "aggregation" optimizations that Bernd wants, and I'll > > > put it into the code. > > > > RAIDFrame was built as a research tool to allow people to test > > out just such theories, with the minimum amount of code, and no > > modification required to the framework in which the code runs. > > > > It's acutally the right tool for the job of testing these ideas > > out. > > ... it was also imported into NetBSD on the 12th. > > What's most irritating is that the vast majority of the diffs between > the original RAIDframe code and the version imported into the NetBSD > tree are noise - formatting, prototypes, etc. > > The actual meat is pretty trivial, but it makes me wonder who actually > reviewed the code, and what their criteria were... Ugh. I know that the patch set I made was just to make the thing compile; the author assured me that it would be rolled into the next release. I'm not sure whether my patches on freebsd.org are redundant yet, or not. Maybe the formatting changes came from a next release of the code? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 11:44:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25584 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:44:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles245.castles.com [208.214.165.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25577 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:44:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13761; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:41:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811151941.LAA13761@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Vinum] Stupid benchmark: newfsstone In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:13:37 GMT." <199811151913.MAA27668@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:41:23 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Actually, I could see it being *very* useful for copying data between > > > plexes on different volumes for the purpose of replication. > > > > How? Please note the quantum effects I've mentioned previously, and > > note that the only useful way to overcome them is to enable buffering > > at both ends of the queue. Please also study the internal architecture > > of most SCSI disks and note the almost total decoupling between the > > head/spindle location and the availability of a request for > > presentation to the bus. > > > > Spindle sync was useful back when data off the drive was basically the > > output of the head preamp or the data separator. It's not noticeably > > useful as soon as you allow the drive to do things for it's own reasons. > > It's not clear to me that spindle sync, with various drive > performance features enabled, actually refers to anything more > than cylinder selection; i.e., that you couldn't argue that > drive-level optimizations, e.g., write caching, are lower level > than spindle sync. In other words, at what level do you actually > engage in synchronization? Good question. Unless it's enforced as a two-way protocol-level heartbeat (it's not on any drive I'm aware of - they all output a square wave from the master and expect one on the slave), it can only be used as a master reference for the spindle index PLL, which takes us back to my original arguments. > > > Bringing a new disk online in a RAID 5 array could also use this > > > to advantage. > > > > What you want is the SCSI COPY command. > > Yes. And if the second drive never had to seek except when the > first was also seeking, and seeking took the same time because > the rotation rates were the same and the seek was between the > same cylinder... Then the first time the second disk had to seek unexpectedly because of a forwarded sector, or the first time that someone else wanted to use the SCSI bus, everything would come unstuck. Even then, you don't want them in sync, you want the second drive lagging the first by something slightly more than the total latency from the first drive's head to the second drive's head, eg. head preamp, data separator, sector deformatter, ECC, sector buffering, transfer construction, cache overhead, SCSI command and data overhead, command deconstruction, sector ECC construction, sector servo request, and all the other parts of the path that I've left out and that vary from drive architecture to architecture. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 11:47:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26002 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:47:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles245.castles.com [208.214.165.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25991 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:47:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13781; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:43:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811151943.LAA13781@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), grog@lemis.com, ticso@cicely.de, peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Vinum] Stupid benchmark: newfsstone In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:16:01 GMT." <199811151916.MAA27750@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:43:09 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > I'll tell you what: anybody who wants, go and look at the request > > > > building code in /usr/src/lkm/vinum/request.c and rebuild it to > > > > perform the "aggregation" optimizations that Bernd wants, and I'll > > > > put it into the code. > > > > > > RAIDFrame was built as a research tool to allow people to test > > > out just such theories, with the minimum amount of code, and no > > > modification required to the framework in which the code runs. > > > > > > It's acutally the right tool for the job of testing these ideas > > > out. > > > > ... it was also imported into NetBSD on the 12th. > > > > What's most irritating is that the vast majority of the diffs between > > the original RAIDframe code and the version imported into the NetBSD > > tree are noise - formatting, prototypes, etc. > > > > The actual meat is pretty trivial, but it makes me wonder who actually > > reviewed the code, and what their criteria were... > > Ugh. > > I know that the patch set I made was just to make the thing compile; > the author assured me that it would be rolled into the next release. > I'm not sure whether my patches on freebsd.org are redundant yet, or > not. I haven't looked at your diffs; I guess I should. > Maybe the formatting changes came from a next release of the code? Not according to the committer's website; he took the 1.1 release, bashed it sideways into the NetBSD kernel and committed it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 11:52:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26387 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:52:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from angstrom.flash.net (angstrom.flash.net [209.30.12.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26382 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stan@angstrom.flash.net) Received: (from stan@localhost) by angstrom.flash.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12748; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:43:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from stan) Message-ID: <19981115134323.B11537@angstrom.flash.net> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:43:23 -0600 From: Stan To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: zircon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can someone possibly send me the .zircon/preferences? Theres not much docs about it and I am making a mistake somehow that prevents this packege from working. I am using 1.18.195 on 2.2.5. I set my nick and server port and zircon opens O.K. but doesn't work. Can zircon can connect to the icq server at maribilis.com. Any pointer with zircon? thanks, stan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 12:03:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27340 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:03:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27333 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:03:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00347; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:01:16 GMT Message-ID: <364F330B.640A3512@tdx.co.uk> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:01:15 +0000 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: Mike Smith , peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Vinum] Stupid benchmark: newfsstone References: <199811151913.MAA27668@usr07.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert & Co. wrote: > It's not clear to me that spindle sync, with various drive > performance features enabled, actually refers to anything more > than cylinder selection; i.e., that you couldn't argue that > drive-level optimizations, e.g., write caching, are lower level > than spindle sync. In other words, at what level do you actually > engage in synchronization? We used to have a fairly 'old' (SCO? It might have been) system, running a number of 1Gb SCSI Drive's (DEC 3107's I think) - we had the option to use 'spindle sync' - but never actually used it... As far as I can remember the doc's said it would only give you an advantage if you were using the drives in a mirrored or duplexed array, i.e. the same read would be issued to all drives, or all drives would perform the same write - and would complete more or less in the same time (due to the spindles being in the same position at the time of the read/write being issued), hence you shouldn't get additional rotational delay latency (tagged queing/caching should be the same for each drive in this instance - as they're all doing the same thing at the same time)... I guess the thinking was so long as you issued the _same_ command/commands & sequences to all drives, i.e. "Read this sector, write that sector" across all drives - they would all complete at the same time... I guess RAID5, 'un-pure' block allocation / concatentation / mirroring (either caused by the O/S or the drive remapping sectors etc. (which incidentally the 3107's do have ;-) - has caused this option to be pretty un-usable in todays world... Though the number of defects remapped on drives is normally pretty minimal (not that that is any real defense for bringing spindle synch back again ;-) I also seem to have a vague memory of talking someone through _not_ linking the Spindle sync. on their DEC drives to the sp.sync on their Seagate drives ;-) Though it would have probably been interesting... -Kp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 13:02:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01730 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:02:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles245.castles.com [208.214.165.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01723 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:02:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14163; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:56:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811152056.MAA14163@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Harold Gutch cc: zhihuizhang , hackers Subject: Re: Question on chroot() In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:08:13 +0100." <19981115200813.B12524@foobar.franken.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:56:03 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 09:56:32AM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > Breaking out of a chroot'ed environment is less easy if you're not > > root > Is this meant to be read as "more or less impossible", that is, > impossible unless the user can become root first (due to insecure > suid-root binaries in the chroot-environment etc.), or can users > really break out in more or less every situation (of course > assuming stuff like that they don't have any open filehandles > pointing to the outside in the beginning). It's quite difficult to break out of a chroot'ed environment, yes, and it's intended to be impossible, so obviously you can only get out through flaws in the implementation... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 14:05:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07859 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:05:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07839; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:05:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199811152205.OAA07839@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: The FreeBSD UK User Group Oxford dinner To: current, hackers Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:05:19 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Paul asked me to send this out....bon appetit! jmb FreeBSD UK User Group Oxford dinner --------------------------------------- A FreeBSD night out has been arranged for November 21 in Oxford. We're meeting up for a few beers in the Royal Oak on Woodstock Road at around 7.30 and then heading on for a meal at Jamal's Indian restaurant on Walton St (booked for 10pm). The plan is for as many people from the UK FreeBSD community to get together to informally discuss what we can do as a group in the future. More or less anyone is welcome on this occasion, including partners and other friends who might be interested, such as NetBSD or Linux users who want to come along to a hackers night out. Email me at paul@originative.co.uk if you want to come along but be quick because it's not long to go :-) Here's a web page with directions/maps and a list of who's coming so far, as well as possible accommodation in Oxford for those wanting to stay the night. http://www.originative.co.uk/FreeBSD.htm Paul Richards Ph.D. Originative Solutions Ltd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 14:09:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08431 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:09:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA08398; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:09:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zfAMJ-00017u-00; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:09:27 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA01604; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:10:27 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199811152210.PAA01604@harmony.village.org> To: Andre Albsmeier Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? Cc: Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:22:24 +0100." <19981115192224.A29686@internal> References: <19981115192224.A29686@internal> <19981115161548.A23869@internal> <199811151758.JAA15108@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:10:26 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19981115192224.A29686@internal> Andre Albsmeier writes: : > * xterm (suid root for utmp access) : : Yes, this is another candidate. Is the setuid root permission really only : used to access /var/run/utmp? No. xterm uses it to chown the pty to the user. It would be hard for the device to chown itself when opened, since devices operate below the file system.... xterm tosses its setuid-ness quickly. There is a window in xterm for attack, should it do its data copies or file creation in a sloppy manner. I don't think that low port binding restrictions would be worth it. What does it really buy you? Little, imho. If an intruder breaks the daemon, you can run arbitrary code as that user, and then be a "trusted" user on the network, which would likely make it easy to gain root from there. I think that it will complicate things too much for the small security gains that you'll get from it. Just my opinion, mind you. Likewise for other pseudo capabilities. A full blown one might help, but I remain skeptical. Back to the original thread, I'm not sure how making more programs setgid would help system security. Small ones that are easy to audit have proven, in the past, that too many programmers don't know how to use C's APIs in the face of a malicious attacker[*]. Larger programs seem to me to be asking for trouble. Problems may also arise in the long term as the pw acquires new meanings that early adapters weren't aware of. Look at how /etc/shells has grown from just being those users that can login to ftp, to being much, much more... Warner [*] Don't flame 'c' unless you have a complete system in place to take its place that performs as well. We've had that flame war here too recently for everyone to have lost their mind :-). Even the internet doesn't loose its mind that quickly :-). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 14:57:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12918 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:57:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12907; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:57:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10913; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:57:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd010906; Sun Nov 15 15:57:26 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA02868; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:57:20 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811152257.PAA02868@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:57:20 +0000 (GMT) Cc: andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811151758.JAA15108@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Nov 15, 98 09:58:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :while installing xlockmore, I noticed that its mode is 4111 for root. > :... > : > :Wouldn't it be generally a good idea to make the /etc/spwd.db and > :the /etc/master.passwd file 640 and give them to a newly created > : > :root@voyager:~>ll /usr/X11R6/bin/xlock > :---x--s--x 1 root pw - 126976 Oct 1 08:17 /usr/X11R6/bin/xlock* > : > :What do you think? Will it make my systems more insecure with the > :above stuff or not? If not, wouldn't it make sense to incorporate > :the changes into FreeBSD? IMHO they break nothing since all programs > > I think this is an excellent idea. A similar method is used for > the 'operator' group, to allow the dumper to dump disks without > giving him write access to them. There are several holes in the theory. The number one hole is that if I'm trusting you to read the engrpted passwords, I'm trusting you to not run "crack" (or whatever) against the password file. Basically, DES is insecure enough tese days that if I trust you with read access, I'm effectively trusting you with the root password (if you had access to the EFF hardware, you could obtain root in less than an hour). I think it's a bad idea to spread this trust around like this. Second, if I trust a program to read the file, but not to write it, I'm saying I have less trust in the program than I would hold out for "root". This is ridiculous, since I'm implicitly trusting the program to not have a hidden option to enumerate the shadow password database contents, and I'm also entrusting it to not be a trojan that, when passwords are successfully validated, the account/password information gets sent someplace. Basically, if I'm in for a penny, I'm in for a pound, and relying on obscurity and spreading the wealth around are both bad security risks. > Another thing that would be nice would be to give certain user id's > the ability to listen on low-numbered sockets without giving the rest > of the users that ability. SCO ODT had this "feature". SVR4 also has this "feature". It's effectively the same thing as VMS (or NT) installed images, where the image itself conveys permission to do things. Actually, there's already something like this for FreeBSD: "sudo". For priviledged ports, we have a different program: "inetd". > Immediate uses that I can see: > > * bind (has a user run mode, but then can't rebind on ifc > changes) This is more of a problem with the fact that we bind to IP addresses instead of binding to interfaces. Ideally, you would want to bind to interfaces, IP addreses, or both, e.g.: ed0:192.168.1.1 *:192.168.1.1 ed0:* > * sendmail (currently run under user with special hacks only) Not true. This is a matter of configuration file settings; so long as you don't specify a mailer to run under a user other than the user whom sendmail runs, you can run as non-root. The big PITA is the local delivery agent, *not* sendmail itself. > * popper (run as root) Don't use the qualcomm code. > * imapd (run as root) Don't know whose you are running; my imapd and pop3d run as user "cyrus". The U of W imapd/pop3d runs as a non-root user as well. > * xterm (suid root for utmp access) Yeah, well, this is just bogus because of the way credentials are handled in FreeBSD. It's the same reason we can't have per-user instead of per-machine SAMBA credeintions: there's no explicit session manager to act as credential holder, and to which programs can proxy requests. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 15:04:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13562 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:04:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from titan.cc.wwu.edu (titan.cc.wwu.edu [140.160.240.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13551 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:04:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from n9842643@cc.wwu.edu) Received: from cc.wwu.edu (xws166.xtrn03.wwu.edu [204.201.210.166]) by titan.cc.wwu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA02438 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:04:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <364F5DAC.A85D358E@cc.wwu.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:03:08 -0800 From: "M. Cockrum" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: sendmail question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I posted this message on -questions already, but never did get a response. I thought I might try this list instead (so I'm sorry if it's a little off topic.) I'm new to FreeBSD and i'm trying to set up my sendmail.cf file to work with my ISP. I have a non dedicated connection and 2 pop3 accounts to worry about for receiving mail. I am a college student and my current main mailing address is n9842643@cc.wwu.edu, along with the secondary address napalm@halcyon.com. I chose the arbitrary name inferno.cc.wwu.edu for my machine name since the university ISP never assigned me one. >From the information I got from the FAQ and handbook, I am now able to send mail out but every message header has the name "root@cc.wwu.edu" instead of "n9842643@cc.wwu.edu" in the reply-to box. Furthermore, I can only see my mail on my system if I am the user name of the mail I am receiving (so I have to change from being root to being n9842643 on my box every time to see my own mail.) I attached a copy of my current sendmail.cf file. Is there anyone out there that can tell me a way to just have everything on my system sent to root, and for my outgoing mail user name to just be n9842643? thanks, -MC -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ____/| Mark A. Cockrum Powered by FreeBSD 2.2.6 \ o.O| Western Washington University FreeBSD: The Power To Serve =(_)= n9842643@cc.wwu.edu U Bob the cat sez: Friends don't let friends use Windows95. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 16:00:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20228 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:00:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20213 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:00:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15949; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:59:38 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:59:38 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Folks, During the day job, I use Solaris. This is not, in and of itself, a bad thing. Solaris uses run levels. I don't particularly like them, but I tolerate them. I *don't* want to bring run levels (or even, if Terry's reading, run states) to FreeBSD. The one useful feature I've found with run [levels|states] as implemented on Solaris is the /etc/init.d directory. For those that don't know, this contains 'n' scripts, one per 'service', that take 'start' and 'stop' parameters. If you want to stop Sendmail, it's sh /etc/init.d/sendmail stop No need to poke around with ps, grep, and friends to determine the PID to kill, no wondering about whether or not there's a lock file you might need to clean up afterwards, and so on. It helps save a little time, and is probably easier for newcomers to understand as well. We already have the beginning of a system like this for ported software, with the ${PREFIX}/etc/rc.d directory. What are people's thoughts on doing the same thing to the base system? In essence, this would involve (on a case by case basis) going through the daemons started in /etc/rc*, building a script to start/stop the daemon, and changing the code in /etc/rc* to call these scripts instead. NOTE: The order in which scripts would be called by /etc/rc* would not be determined by the script name, there would be none of this silliness with S20foo and K50bar, ordering is still determined by /etc/rc* All I want to do is abstract out the daemon start/stop process a little more. Down the road, this could bring other benefits as well; - For those that like run levels/states, it becomes easier for them to create a port with a new version of init that implemented them. People that want run levels install the port, people that don't, don't. - It makes it easier to install replacements for programs that are in the base system. If sendmail was started from /etc/rc.d/smtp.sh, the first thing smtp.sh could check for is the existence of /usr/local/etc/rc.d/smtp.sh, and call that instead if it existed. Replacing sendmail with qmail or vmailer then becomes a little easier. - Simplifies documentation. When explaining how to stop a system process, you don't need to explain ps, grep, kill, awk/cut, backticks, and pipelines. You just say "Do it like this", and explain the magic behind it at a later point. I realise this is a religious issue, and one of those things people like to get all excited about. However, I've just seen a message from Jordan suggesting the ordering be changed in host.conf, and *no one* objected. I figured I'd jump in quickly, before they stop putting Prozac in the water. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 16:25:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24242 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:25:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24237 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:25:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40348>; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:24:11 +1100 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:24:32 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: dump(8) very slow To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <98Nov16.112411est.40348@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I wrote: >Unfortunately, dump(8) is distinctly sub-optimal as far as reading the >disk is concerned..... David Wolfskill wrote: >Well, what I do, in large part to deal with this, is have amanda run >dump for me. Amanda definitely addresses the `how to backup a network' problem, but it doesn't address dump's underlying poor performance. Marc Slemko wrote: >Right, or you can just pipe dump through something like "team" which will >buffer it. There's also `buffer', which I use at home (primarily because it was the first thing I came across that did what I wanted). It uses a single reader process and a single writer process, sharing a SysV shared memory segment and communicating via SysV semaphores. I agree that decoupling the disk reading from the tape writing is beneficial. My problem is that the _average_ disk reading speed is too slow to keep the tapes streaming. In this environment, memory- based utilities like team and buffer will (at best) just extend the time between streaming pauses. Amanda does get around this problem, but needs enough disk space to cache the entire dump - which I can't currently afford. Speeding up dump should also shorten the duration of backups - which can hardly be bad. Someone else (I accidently deleted the reference) commented that the drive should manage to glue together multiple reads so that the degradation isn't as serious. I did a few tests (using dd) and found that for IDE drives there was a significant improvement between 8K and 16K, but going above 16K didn't help. For SCSI (a Barracuda on a slow/narrow adapter), there was little improvement over 8K with only 1 thread accessing the drive. Once you go to multiple threads, the more data you can read at a time, the better. At this stage, I might have a closer look at what is involved in changing dump. Or at least instrumenting it to see what impact the changes would have on a couple of real filesystems. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 18:20:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02631 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:20:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02626; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:20:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA16490; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:20:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:20:27 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199811160220.SAA16490@apollo.backplane.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? References: <199811152257.PAA02868@usr05.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :> :while installing xlockmore, I noticed that its mode is 4111 for root. :> :... :> : :> :Wouldn't it be generally a good idea to make the /etc/spwd.db and :> :the /etc/master.passwd file 640 and give them to a newly created :> : :> :root@voyager:~>ll /usr/X11R6/bin/xlock :> :---x--s--x 1 root pw - 126976 Oct 1 08:17 /usr/X11R6/bin/xlock* :> : :> :What do you think? Will it make my systems more insecure with the :> :above stuff or not? If not, wouldn't it make sense to incorporate :> :the changes into FreeBSD? IMHO they break nothing since all programs :> :> I think this is an excellent idea. A similar method is used for :> the 'operator' group, to allow the dumper to dump disks without :> giving him write access to them. : : :There are several holes in the theory. The number one hole is :that if I'm trusting you to read the engrpted passwords, I'm :... I'm not so pessimistic. Anything that layers security is better then having nothing at all. It's easy to throw together examples of the failings of any scheme, but to then say that "gee, I'll just give up and give the program root" after shooting down a reasonable idea makes no sense whatsoever to me. The failings of the password file really have very little to do with the concept. If anything, it points out the necessity of using something like kerberos, beefing up the password file's encryption, or using ssh with *'d out passwords in the password file. This problem is easily surmountable. Just because you are storing encrypted passwords in your password file doesn't mean that I am. If you take an idea and try to make it work in every possible situation, you wind up with nothing left at the end of the day. That's a silly way to argue. inetd only goes so far... it is not a good way to start a subsystem such as sendmail or INN that you want to stick around as a daemon, and doesn't work at all when you use more sophisticated sendmail features such as when you separate the queue runs from the daemon, or if you put user's mailboxes in their home directories. In order to do it right, you need to be able to give sendmail the capability to listen on a low numbered port and you need to hack /bin/mail to run an suid 'create home directory' program when necessary. As I said... it requires hacking sendmail (or more to the point: /bin/mail) to make it work. Default configurations don't typically work on heavily loaded systems. Don't assume that we use the same configurations you use. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 15 19:57:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12542 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:57:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TYO203.gate.nec.co.jp (TYO203.gate.nec.co.jp [202.32.8.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12532 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:57:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from y-nakaga@ccs.mt.nec.co.jp) Received: from mailsv.nec.co.jp (mailsv-le1 [192.168.1.90]) by TYO203.gate.nec.co.jp (8.9.1a/3.7W98092815) with ESMTP id MAA01656 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:56:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from gw.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (gw.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp [133.201.2.2]) by mailsv.nec.co.jp (8.9.1a/3.7W-MAILSV-NEC) with ESMTP id MAA29555 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:56:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (mail.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp [133.201.3.22]) by gw.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (8.9.1+3.1W/3.7W-GW_CCS) with ESMTP id MAA08034 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:56:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from spls63.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (spls63.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp [172.16.5.30]) by mail.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (8.9.1a/3.6W-CCS_Master) with ESMTP id MAA28607 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:56:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from ccs.mt.nec.co.jp by spls63.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/6.4J.6-slave-1.0) id MAA12160; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:56:40 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199811160356.MAA12160@spls63.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WaveLan In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:16:48 PST" References: <199811132116.NAA00332@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:56:40 +0900 From: Nakagawa Yoshihisa Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG | wlconfig only works with the wl driver. You will probably have to use | the DOS/Windows tools to set the NWID on your pccard. No No, PAO kit include wlconfig, and it has not compatibility 2.2.7-RELEASE's wlconfig for wl driver. So, should be use "PAO kit"'s wlconfig and set the NWID. #I'm a member of PAO team. -- Internet Engineering Laboratory, Networking Systems Laboratories, NEC Corporation NAKAGAWA, Yoshihisa y-nakaga@ccs.mt.nec.co.jp nakagawa@jp.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 09:23:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03716 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:23:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu ([155.99.198.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03711 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:23:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) Received: from torrey.cs.utah.edu (torrey.cs.utah.edu [155.99.212.91]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09096 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:23:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from danderse@localhost) by torrey.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA15808; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:23:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:23:07 -0700 (MST) From: "David G. Andersen" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: nfs intr hangs. X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13904.24008.516709.742888@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG NFS/FS people care to comment? (Regarding the looping 'tsleep' in vfs_subr.c: vinvalbuf() which causes a system hang). To reiterate a bit, the code in question is: while (vp->v_numoutput) { vp->v_flag |= VBWAIT; tsleep((caddr_t)&vp->v_numoutput, slpflag | (PRIBIO + 1), "vinvlbuf", slptimeo); } When the filesystem is NFS mounted with the 'intr' flag, this tsleep gets interrupted occasionally, and the system begins infinitely looping here. The discussion about which we need comments: Lo and Behold, Mike Hibler said: > > From: David G Andersen > > > I can see a few options for the way to go, but I'm not sure which is > > right. > > > > 1 - return EINTR on the close ('man close' says that's a possible error > > code) > > > > 2 - retry the flush a few times, then return EINTR. > > (more likely to make clients happy) > > > > 3 - For those of us who are lazy bastards, ignore SIGINTR during > > NFS flushes. This seems like a bad idea. > > > > 4 - Something else? > > > > There are really two issues involved. One is whether the FreeBSD change > to vinvalbuf is even necessary/correct... Ok, I just did a cvs annotate > and found what the change was: > ================== > > revision 1.156 > date: 1998/06/10 22:02:14; author: julian; state: Exp; lines: +4 -2 > Replace 'sleep()' with 'tsleep()' > Accidentally imported from Kirk's codebase. > > Pointed out by: various. > ---------------------------- > revision 1.155 > date: 1998/06/10 18:13:19; author: julian; state: Exp; lines: +18 -8 > Submitted by: Kirk McKusick > > Fix for potential hang when trying to reboot the system or > to forcibly unmount a soft update enabled filesystem. > FreeBSD already handled the reboot case differently, this is however a better > fix. > > ================== > So as 1.155 indicates, this change came directly from The Source so I believe > it is necessary. The change in 1.156 is the key: by changing from the 4.4bsd > non-interruptible "sleep" to the possibly interruptible "tsleep" and OR'ing > in the "slpflag" the problem was introduced--now the sleep became > interruptible when called on an interruptible NFS mount. > > That brings us to issue #2 which is what is the correct behavior in this case? > The easy way out is to just not OR in slpflag and go back to full-time non- > interruptibility (your #3). However, that probably isn't necessary. I'm a > bettin' that you could just slpx() and return the tsleep value (your #1) > and all will be fine. (well, as fine as it ever is in the NFS world...) Thanks in advance. -Dave -- work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ Department of Computer Science To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 09:40:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05632 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:40:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw1.att.com [192.128.133.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA05467 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:39:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: from kcig1.fw.att.com by kcgw1.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/UPAS-1.0) for freebsd.org!hackers sender dcn.att.com!sbabkin (dcn.att.com!sbabkin); Mon Nov 16 10:57 CST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by kcig1.fw.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id KAA05487 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:57:18 -0600 (CST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:06:41 -0500 Message-ID: To: chuckr@mat.net, abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us Cc: art@stacken.kth.se, tech@scsr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Detailed info on Fail-safe cluster for Freebsd/unixes Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:06:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Chuck Robey [SMTP:chuckr@mat.net] > > There were many reasons to dump on Tech1 (whoever that is) that I'd have > been fine with ... like cross posting (which I largely removed, you > should have) or posting commercial messages on lists not chartered for > such, but jumping on commercial work *per se* is utterly destructive, > shortsighted, and wrong. > I guess, it would be a good advice to add information about this product to the FreeBSD web page. And, by the way, it would be a good idea to add the support for overtaking the disk drives of the failed machine, like the HP ServiceGuard does (I haven't seen the product, just the original mail did not mentioned this functionality). -Sergey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 09:43:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05988 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:43:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw1.att.com [192.128.133.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA05940 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:42:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: from kcig1.fw.att.com by kcgw1.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/UPAS-1.0) for freebsd.org!hackers sender dcn.att.com!sbabkin (dcn.att.com!sbabkin); Mon Nov 16 11:02 CST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by kcig1.fw.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id LAA06533 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:02:16 -0600 (CST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:11:38 -0500 Message-ID: To: scrappy@hub.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Detailed info on Fail-safe cluster for Freebsd/unixes Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:11:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: The Hermit Hacker [SMTP:scrappy@hub.org] > > Actually, I have to quickly agree with Chuck on this...I don't > personally want WordPerfect, mind you. But, I would be willing to pay for > a copy of StarOffice 5.0 if it were native to FreeBSD, since it would > effectively allow me to totally ditch any reliance I have on Winbloze... > There exists the native Applixware for FreeBSD, you can get if from WC CD-ROM. No, I have not tried it yet, but I have already ordered it :-) Personally, I think that it should be announced more loudly both on the mailing lists (perhaps -announce?) and the web site. I believe that having a native office package is an important milestone for FreeBSD. -Sergey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 10:06:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09645 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from furrball.dyn.ml.org (hou4-24.flex.net [207.18.136.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09622 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:06:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@furrball.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from chris@localhost) by furrball.dyn.ml.org (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01098 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:02:25 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chris) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:02:25 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Costello Message-Id: <199811161802.MAA01098@furrball.dyn.ml.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Accelerated X 4.1 Reply-To: phoenix@calldei.com X-Mailer: mail(1) -- the One True(TM) mail client Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Earlier today, I had just opened Accelerated X version 4.1, and then Netscape, but in the process of opening Netscape, the system rebooted, and upon rebooting, fsck failed. When brought to the single-user shell, I ran fsck and it worked. I asked a friend and I was told that it was a kernel panic and that it could possibly be a bug in the kernel. My questions are: 1.) What could have caused the kernel panic? The X0panic in /var/log is not the one caused by today's crash (I should upgade my X server). 2.) Would it be remotely feasible to have the troublesome program be removed entirely from memory? Thank you, Chris Costello phoenix@calldei.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 10:12:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10164 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:12:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09877 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:08:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: from caig1.fw.att.com by cagw1.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/UPAS-1.0) for freebsd.org!freebsd-hackers sender dcn.att.com!sbabkin (dcn.att.com!sbabkin); Mon Nov 16 11:36 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by caig1.fw.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id LAA21308 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:45:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:54:56 -0500 Message-ID: To: wouters@cistron.nl, cpl92@fx.ro, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: sever ide hdd crash (also re:Another instance of the crash I was seeing) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:54:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: WHS [SMTP:wouters@cistron.nl] > > I've had this same scenario happen (under linux) because the HDD cable > got a little loose.. (by fan vibrations probably). Try pressing the > cable firmly on the main board and on the HD and see if that helps. > It may be also an oxidized connector. In this case disconnecting and reconnecting the cable helps as it scratches off the oxide from the connectors and restores the contact. By some reason this problem shows off more often when the temperature in the room with the computer is low (say, around 10C). On the other hand, stopping the motor and restarting not with each power-on (getting worse over time) was quite typical for the early Quantum Empire drives. -Sergey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 10:16:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10421 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:16:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10416 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:16:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA23880 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:13:50 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199811161813.KAA23880@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dump(8) very slow In-Reply-To: <98Nov16.112411est.40348@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:24:32 +1100 >From: Peter Jeremy >I wrote: >>Unfortunately, dump(8) is distinctly sub-optimal as far as reading the >>disk is concerned..... >David Wolfskill wrote: >>Well, what I do, in large part to deal with this, is have amanda run >>dump for me. >Amanda definitely addresses the `how to backup a network' problem, but >it doesn't address dump's underlying poor performance. Sort of. The insertion of the hlding disk/speed-matching buffer also permits multiple filesystems to be dumped at the same time. This is a non-trivial win. >I agree that decoupling the disk reading from the tape writing is >beneficial. My problem is that the _average_ disk reading speed is >too slow to keep the tapes streaming. In this environment, memory- >based utilities like team and buffer will (at best) just extend the >time between streaming pauses. Amanda does get around this problem, >but needs enough disk space to cache the entire dump - which I can't >currently afford. With amanda, I'm seeing an average tape-writing speed of about 1280 KB/sec., against a tape drive that has a rated hardware throughput of 1500 KB/sec. -- and this is with the hardware (also) compressing the data. (I need to get a copy of the Quantum docs so I can figure out what SCSI commands to feed the drive to tell it to not bother compressing, since I prefer to do that myself.) >Speeding up dump should also shorten the duration of backups - which >can hardly be bad. True, but being able to do more than one at once is pretty significant. I understand that some folks may not be able to afford the disk space, but the cost of same is becoming less of a hurdle as time passes. Were I to start from scratch, I'd set up a dedicated system for doing backups (& the occasional restore) -- just a fairly plain vanilla box, with some extra room for amanda's logs & databases, and a fast dedicated drive for a holding disk. Of course, the tape drive(s) would be hung off of this box, too. That way, upgrading the box could involve minimal disruption for Real Work. david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 10:39:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13004 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:39:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mx1.dmz.fedex.com (mx1.dmz.fedex.com [199.81.194.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12951; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:39:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wam@mohawk.dpd.fedex.com) Received: from mx2.zmd.fedex.com (sendmail@mx2.zmd.fedex.com [199.82.159.11]) by mx1.dmz.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09192; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:38:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from s07.sa.fedex.com (root@s07.sa.fedex.com [199.81.124.17]) by mx2.zmd.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA14109; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:38:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from mohawk.dpd.fedex.com (mohawk.dpd.fedex.com [199.81.74.121]) by s07.sa.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA25024; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:38:43 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811161838.MAA25024@s07.sa.fedex.com> To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:38:11 -0600 From: William McVey Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ This is a fairly long reply. The last paragraph has some info related to xterm's need for root permissions of possible interest. ] I'm in favor of the proposed change to allow some group (for discussion sake, lets call it group 'shadow') read permission to the shadow file. Unfortunatly, it's not enough. The getpwnam (and family) needs to be modified to base their access method on access to the file as opposed to a "root or not-root" check. The routine __initdb() in /usr/src/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c seems to be the place to make the change... (I code the propose "patch" very quickly, it should defintly be reviewed). before: p = (geteuid()) ? _PATH_MP_DB : _PATH_SMP_DB; _pw_db = dbopen(p, O_RDONLY, 0, DB_HASH, NULL); if (_pw_db) { [code] after: if((DB *)0 == (_pw_db=dbopen(_PATH_SMP_DB, O_RDONLY, 0, DB_HASH, NULL))) { _pw_db = dbopen(_PATH_MP_DB, O_RDONLY, 0, DB_HASH, NULL); } if ((DB *)0 ==_pw_db) { [code] Terry Lambert wrote: >There are several holes in the theory. The number one hole is >that if I'm trusting you to read the engrpted passwords, I'm >trusting you to not run "crack" (or whatever) against the >password file. True, but root passwords are of course secure enough to withstand crack (they are on my boxes at least). >Basically, DES is insecure enough tese days that >if I trust you with read access, I'm effectively trusting you >with the root password (if you had access to the EFF hardware, >you could obtain root in less than an hour). This logic is flawed. For one, there is no requirement that encrypted passwords be "encrypted" with DES. MD5 hashing has been an option on FreeBSD for a long time. Even assuming DES hashing is enabled on a box, it's important to remember that DES hashing is not the same as DES encryption. The interative nature of DES hashing (even the lowest security of crypt() has 25 iterations of DES encryption) means that it's a more time consuming to break the hash than to break a DES encrypted file. Extended DES hashing can use up to 16 million iterations of DES encryption to form the hash. Saying that possesion of EFF hardware makes encrypted password entries crackable within an hour is assuming a level of security which is not universal. >I think it's a bad idea to spread this trust around like this. Trust is still being placed into the root-owned xlockmore program. There is no denying that. If xlockmore were compromised, it could still be trojaned to store typed in user (and possibly even root) passwords as clear text to a file or mail message. That's why it still important for xlock to still be owned and writable by only root. >Second, if I trust a program to read the file, but not to write >it, I'm saying I have less trust in the program than I would hold >out for "root". This is ridiculous, since I'm implicitly trusting >the program to not have a hidden option to enumerate the shadow >password database contents, and I'm also entrusting it to not be >a trojan that, when passwords are successfully validated, the >account/password information gets sent someplace. Your implicit trust is that the program isn't intentionally malicious. That's different than trusting that the program doesn't have buffer overflows, race conditions, or other programming errors which might be abused. I have a higher degree of trust that xlock isn't intentionally malicious than I do that xlock (or any of it's underlying libraries) doesn't have bugs that might be exploited. When faced with this kind of partial trust, I'm inclined to want to give it only limited permissions. >Basically, if I'm in for a penny, I'm in for a pound, and relying >on obscurity and spreading the wealth around are both bad security >risks. One of the basic tenants of unix security is to minimize the permissions needed to accomplish a task. Let's say xlock has a race condition that would allow it to create new files. With setuid root permissions (or any other user for that matter), a new .rhosts (or perhaps a new .login or .profile) file could be created leading directly to a compromise of that account. With setgid permissions, the worse that could happen would be the creation of a file owned by the original user and grouped to the 'shadow' group. The user would have a hard time exploiting this since he can't make it setgid since he is presumably not in the 'shadow' group (if he were, this would all be moot anyway). Granted, race conditions and buffer overflows are programming bugs which should be eliminated out of all programs (especially those with privileges), but the unix filesystem and permission model allows us to mitigate a lot of those risks by restricting access privileges to a narrowly defined set of operations. >> Another thing that would be nice would be to give certain user id's >> the ability to listen on low-numbered sockets without giving the rest >> of the users that ability. > >SCO ODT had this "feature". SVR4 also has this "feature". It's >effectively the same thing as VMS (or NT) installed images, where >the image itself conveys permission to do things. I remember reading a research paper which had added a group per privileged system call. The permission check in the system calls were modified to check for membership in that system call's group as well being root. I think the code to do this was applied against one of the free BSDs of the time (FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, perhaps even BSD4.4). I tried try and locate a copy of it but couldn't find it quickly... >> * xterm (suid root for utmp access) > > Yeah, well, this is just bogus because of the way credentials > are handled in FreeBSD. It's the same reason we can't have > per-user instead of per-machine SAMBA credeintions: there's > no explicit session manager to act as credential holder, and > to which programs can proxy requests. For years xterm has had support for ptyd, a small daemon program written by Kevin Braunsdorf which would hand out ptys in a secure fashion. It can be found at: ftp://ftp.physics.purdue.edu/pundits/ -- William To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 11:19:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23128 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:19:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wopr.inetu.net (wopr.inetu.net [207.18.13.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23108 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:18:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ziggy@wopr.inetu.net) Received: from localhost (ziggy@localhost) by wopr.inetu.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA24840; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:18:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:18:00 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan Ziegler To: Julian Elischer cc: zhihuizhang , Archie Cobbs , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More questions on DEVFS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, zhihuizhang wrote: > > > > > (2) By saying "put devices in there..", I guess it means that the > > superuser mount the special device at some directory under the new root. > > If we set up root directories for several processes, then we may need to > > mount a certain device used by these processes several times. DEVFS can > > be mounted multiple times to achieve this. However, multiple mounts of > > a normal file system are NOT allowed. Am I right? > > That is correct though I think possibly multiple /proc filesystems > might be ok.. > While 'possible' and 'correct' may mean different things in this case, you CAN mount multiple procfs filesystems. Mounting the same ufs or swap partition multiple times will not work. I have never tried devfs. -Ryan > > > > > > Thanks for your response. > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 12:16:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03485 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:16:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateway.aht.com (gateway.aht.com [12.9.165.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03462; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:16:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rblim@aht.com) Received: from conair.aht.com (mojave@[100.0.120.99]) by gateway.aht.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28588; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:18:50 -0800 Message-ID: <3650891D.41C67EA6@aht.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:20:45 -0800 From: Randy Bunchun Lim Organization: networking integration X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; U; BSD/OS 3.0 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG CC: rblim@aht.com Subject: attach OKIDATA office44 to FreeBSD on PC? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I tried to send print jobs to OKIDATA office44 through parallel port but only to fail. Later on I figured out that this printer was a multifunction machine(supporting fax, scanning, and printing) so I could NOT send print jobs to printer using lpr to parallel port directly. There is a MFPI(Multi Function Peripheral Interface) driver between the Host and the MFP. Also the MFPI driver communicate to MFP using Bi-Centro I/F. But the current MFPI driver only support Window 95. There was NO Unix MFPI driver so far. I plan to implement MFPI driver on FreeBSD. And I need the following helps: 1, How did MFPI driver read/write the parallel port before lpr can start the burst data transfer? 2, where can I find more information about parallel port driver? Also I would like to ask if anybody had any experiences before to attach such printers to FreeBSD? Your quick response will be appreiated /Randy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 13:10:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11111 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:10:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11082 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:10:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27590; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd027551; Mon Nov 16 14:09:44 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA03119; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:09:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811162109.OAA03119@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Supporting more than FD_SETSIZE fd's To: bakul@torrentnet.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:09:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811111344.IAA25228@chai.torrentnet.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Nov 11, 98 08:44:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > There is a way to select on all the file descriptors your > program can open. The idea is to use getdtablesize() to find > the number of such descriptors and just allocate an array of > fd_mask. Something like: > > int fd_setsize = getdtablesize(); > int fd_tablesize = howmany(max_fd_count, NFDBITS); > fd_mask* readfds = calloc(fd_tablesize, sizeof(fd_mask)); > fd_mask* tmp_readfds = calloc(fd_tablesize, sizeof(fd_mask)); > > ... > for (;;) { > memcpy(tmp_readfds, readfds, fd_tablesize*sizeof(fd_mask)); > int nfds = select(maxfd_in_use+1, tmp_readfds, 0, 0, timeout); Right. The problem that normally occurs in naieve net code is this: cnt = getdtablesize(); select( cnt + 1, ...) The UMICH LDAP server has code like this, and there's a *lot* of Linux code that operates like this, on the assumption that the getdtablesize() function will never return more than FD_SETSIZE number of descriptors. > Basically fd_set should have never been defined. Definitely agree. But... it's *still* stupid to call select with a count that includes unallocated descriptors. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 13:16:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12115 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:16:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12109 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:16:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00353; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:16:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd000324; Mon Nov 16 14:16:25 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA03285; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:16:24 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811162116.OAA03285@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Supporting more than FD_SETSIZE fd's To: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:16:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: bakul@torrentnet.com, tlambert@primenet.com, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811112303.PAA02167@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> from "Don Lewis" at Nov 11, 98 03:03:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You may not want to do this. Some implementations return may return > very large numbers from getdtablesize(), like INT_MAX. I've heard > bug reports about software that wants to close all fds other than > 0, 1, and 2 between a fork() and an exec(), and it does so by looping > over all the numbers from 3 to the return value from getdtablesize() > and executing close() on each. This is horribly slow if getdtablesize() > returns an unreasonably large number. Bash likes to open the highest numbered fd it can possibly open, and use that as the fd for running scripts. It does this to take the fd out of the probable collision domain. This used to panic FreeBSD after bash chased the dup2() tail until the system was out of kernel memory, before there were hard and soft limits on number of descriptors per process. Basically, bash is just being lazy, since it could wrapper explicit descriptor references, and move its magic descriptor out of the way, as necessary, instead of consuming descriptor table resources for no good reason. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 13:53:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:53:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20524 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:53:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01361 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:53:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:53:13 -0700 (MST) From: Brian Handy To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: CCD question Message-ID: X-files: The truth is out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey folks, Here's something I'm wondering how people handle -- I have a couple of 18GB disks I'm striping together, mostly for the convenience of having one largish contiguous playground to work in. But I'm sorely disappointed at the space I end up with -- Two big drives, with the default 8% reserved free space, ends up being a lot. What I end up with for these two ccd'd drives is this: %df /mnt Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ccd0c 34506495 1 31745975 0% /mnt That's a lot of space to lose. I'm the sole user of this ccd, and it's just for data and figures and paper-writing activities and data analysis stuff -- any suggestions on how I should set this up to take advantage of as much space as possible, without causing myself problems down the road? I've seen various threads discussing this, but I don't think I understand the issues well enough to make a very informed decision. Thanks, Brian -- Brian Handy Mail: handy@physics.montana.edu Department of Physics Phone: (406) 994-6317 Montana State University Fax: (406) 994-4452 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 14:04:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21671 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:04:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu (wrath.cs.utah.edu [155.99.198.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21666 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:04:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) Received: from torrey.cs.utah.edu (torrey.cs.utah.edu [155.99.212.91]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21431; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from danderse@localhost) by torrey.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA18667; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:04:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:04:02 -0700 (MST) From: "David G. Andersen" To: Brian Handy Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CCD question In-Reply-To: Brian Handy's message of Mon, November 16 1998 References: X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13904.41121.370212.822719@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lo and Behold, Brian Handy said: > > That's a lot of space to lose. I'm the sole user of this ccd, and it's > just for data and figures and paper-writing activities and data analysis > stuff -- any suggestions on how I should set this up to take advantage of > as much space as possible, without causing myself problems down the road? > I've seen various threads discussing this, but I don't think I understand > the issues well enough to make a very informed decision. It's not really a CCD question, but a newfs question. When you newfs your disk partition, supply a different percentage free by using newfs -m Luckily, you can also adjust this post-newfs'ing using the tunefs command (`man tunefs`). tunefs -m But keep in mind, as the tunefs man page says: Settings of 5% and less force space optimization to always be used which will greatly increase the overhead for file writes. Happy tuning. -Dave -- work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ Department of Computer Science To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 14:11:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22733 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:11:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22719 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:11:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA26453; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:07:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:07:31 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Brian Handy cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CCD question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > Hey folks, > > Here's something I'm wondering how people handle -- I have a couple of > 18GB disks I'm striping together, mostly for the convenience of having one > largish contiguous playground to work in. But I'm sorely disappointed at > the space I end up with -- Two big drives, with the default 8% reserved > free space, ends up being a lot. What I end up with for these two ccd'd > drives is this: > > %df /mnt > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on > /dev/ccd0c 34506495 1 31745975 0% /mnt > > That's a lot of space to lose. I'm the sole user of this ccd, and it's > just for data and figures and paper-writing activities and data analysis > stuff -- any suggestions on how I should set this up to take advantage of > as much space as possible, without causing myself problems down the road? > I've seen various threads discussing this, but I don't think I understand > the issues well enough to make a very informed decision. Interesting. It's controlled by search time for free blocks, I think. You're only losing 8% still, it's just 8% of a whopping big disk. I assume the value 34506495 represents the useable disk space after formatting (something about 17.2G per disk, right?). The rest of the math then works out. How much does something like that cost, nowadays? Tunefs says: -m minfree Specify the percentage of space held back from normal users; the minimum free space threshold. The default value used is 8%. This value can be set to zero, however up to a factor of three in throughput will be lost over the performance obtained at a 10% threshold. Settings of 5% and less force space optimization to always be used which will greatly increase the overhead for file writes. Note that if the value is raised above the current usage level, users will be unable to allocate files until enough files have been deleted to get under the higher threshold. (here's hoping your mailer doesn't crunch that). Personally, I think I'd stay with what you've got, unless your fs has some specific goal in mind .... if it was mostly read-only, then I'd cut the minfree quite a bit. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 14:25:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24995 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:25:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat0075.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.188.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24988 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:25:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA14727; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:25:04 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:25:03 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Detailed info on Fail-safe cluster for Freebsd/unixes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote: > > From: The Hermit Hacker [SMTP:scrappy@hub.org] > > > > Actually, I have to quickly agree with Chuck on this...I don't > > personally want WordPerfect, mind you. But, I would be willing to pay for > > a copy of StarOffice 5.0 if it were native to FreeBSD, since it would > > effectively allow me to totally ditch any reliance I have on Winbloze... > > > There exists the native Applixware for FreeBSD, you > can get if from WC CD-ROM. No, I have not tried it > yet, but I have already ordered it :-) Last I saw, it isn't available until February...and I'm eagerly awaiting it :) I'd put my order in rigth now, except that I dont' have a credit card to do so with :( > Personally, I think that it should be announced more > loudly both on the mailing lists (perhaps -announce?) > and the web site. I believe that having a native office > package is an important milestone for FreeBSD. Agreed...I rarely go to www.cdrom.com to check things out, and altho I assume that there was an announcement put out to the lists, I never saw it :( Do we have a 'news' web page that one can look at for milestones? ie. 3.0 Released on Oct XX ... Porting of Applixware started on XX :) Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 14:31:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25945 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:31:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25937 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:31:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.9.1a/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA13081; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:32:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:32:19 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Terry Lambert cc: Bakul Shah , nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Supporting more than FD_SETSIZE fd's In-Reply-To: <199811162109.OAA03119@usr08.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > Right. > > The problem that normally occurs in naieve net code is this: > > cnt = getdtablesize(); > select( cnt + 1, ...) > > The UMICH LDAP server has code like this, and there's a *lot* of > Linux code that operates like this, on the assumption that the > getdtablesize() function will never return more than FD_SETSIZE > number of descriptors. rxvt has (or had? I have sent a patch but never checked if it was accepted) that problem, too. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 14:37:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26934 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:37:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from torrentnet.com (bacardi.torrentnet.com [198.78.51.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26927 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:37:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bakul@torrentnet.com) Received: from chai.torrentnet.com (chai.torrentnet.com [198.78.51.73]) by torrentnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03648; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:37:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from chai.torrentnet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chai.torrentnet.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02348; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:37:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811162237.RAA02348@chai.torrentnet.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Supporting more than FD_SETSIZE fd's In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:09:41 GMT." <199811162109.OAA03119@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:37:14 -0500 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > memcpy(tmp_readfds, readfds, fd_tablesize*sizeof(fd_mask)); > > int nfds = select(maxfd_in_use+1, tmp_readfds, 0, 0, timeout); > Right. > The problem that normally occurs in naieve net code is this: > cnt = getdtablesize(); > select( cnt + 1, ...) If you read carefully this is not what I am advocating. As in my example the first arg to select should be the highest fd in use + 1; *not* the highest fd that is allocatable (which, BTW, would be cnt - 1, not cnt!). > > Basically fd_set should have never been defined. > Definitely agree. But... it's *still* stupid to call select with > a count that includes unallocated descriptors. You are preaching to the converted :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 16:53:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17050 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:53:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17043 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:53:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aron@cs.rice.edu) Received: from elf.cs.rice.edu (elf.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.134]) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA27652 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:52:57 -0600 (CST) From: Mohit Aron Received: (from aron@localhost) by elf.cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id SAA04707 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:52:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811170052.SAA04707@elf.cs.rice.edu> Subject: problems with NFS/VM To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:52:56 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm using FreeBSD-2.2.6. I'm observing some strange behavior with user applications accessing an NFS filesystem (NFS server is also a FreeBSD-2.2.6 machine). Apparently the problems arise once the VM object cache gets full (variable vm_object_cached becomes equal to vm_object_cache_max) and the application is making heavy access to the filesystem. There are two problems: 1) The stat() system call can return incorrect data. Sometimes something like: stat("/usr/users/foo", ...) returns a file size in the stat struct that is incorrect. However the following sequence fixes the problem with the stat command: fd = open("/usr/users/foo", O_RDONLY, 0); stat("/usr/users/foo", ...); Once the file is open for reading, the stat command always returns the correct data. I assume the root of the problem is somewhere in the NFS code that doesn't lock some structure accessed by stat() while the corresponding vnode is being freed. 2) Even when the stat() problem above is fixed, accessing the file through an mmap'd region can return incorrect data. A sequence like: fd = open("/usr/users/foo", O_RDONLY, 0); stat("/usr/users/foo", &info); /* size contained in info.st_size */ addr = mmap(fd, ...); close(fd); write(clientsock, addr, info.st_size) The above sequence sometimes causes data to be written to clientsock that is completely incorrect - it seems to come from other files in the NFS mounted filesystem (despite the fact that stat reports the correct size of the file). Also the data written to clientsock can sometimes be less than the size reported in info.st_size. To observe the problems quickly you can set the 'vm_object_cache_max' variable to a small number and then run the Apache 1.3.3 webserver that serves files from an NFS mounted directory. The clients should be such that they generate appreciable load on the webserver. The clients should be aware of the data that they can expect to get. Please note that the above problems are probably a result of race conditions in the kernel and you only observe them once in a while. I'm not familiar with the NFS code in FreeBSD and I'll appreciate any pointers to fix the above problems. I've already tried using FreeBSD-2.2-stable and the problems are still there. - Mohit Aron aron@cs.rice.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 18:32:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27606 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:32:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27543 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:32:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12062; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:31:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd012048; Mon Nov 16 19:31:42 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA05161; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:31:36 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811170231.TAA05161@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Supporting more than FD_SETSIZE fd's To: bakul@torrentnet.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 02:31:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811162237.RAA02348@chai.torrentnet.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Nov 16, 98 05:37:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The problem that normally occurs in naieve net code is this: > > > cnt = getdtablesize(); > > select( cnt + 1, ...) > > If you read carefully this is not what I am advocating. I know; I was just noting the common problem that crops up when people see code like yo posted and try to imitate it from memory. > > > Basically fd_set should have never been defined. > > > > Definitely agree. But... it's *still* stupid to call select with > > a count that includes unallocated descriptors. > > You are preaching to the converted :-) Yah; just wanted to note that even though it should never have been defined, it having never been defined is not an excuse to do the wrong thing... I think I'm familiar with the section of code that Nate is concerned with; I think by default that it does the wrong thing. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 20:31:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11031 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:31:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-30.camalott.com [208.229.74.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11024 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:31:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA01320; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:30:20 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Mike Smith Cc: Harold Gutch , zhihuizhang , hackers Subject: Re: Question on chroot() References: <199811152056.MAA14163@dingo.cdrom.com> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 16 Nov 1998 22:30:19 -0600 In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's message of "Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:56:03 -0800" Message-ID: <86sofjym90.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 25 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>> Breaking out of a chroot'ed environment is less easy if you're not >>> root >> Is this meant to be read as "more or less impossible", that is, >> impossible unless the user can become root first (due to insecure >> suid-root binaries in the chroot-environment etc.), or can users >> really break out in more or less every situation (of course >> assuming stuff like that they don't have any open filehandles >> pointing to the outside in the beginning). > It's quite difficult to break out of a chroot'ed environment, yes, and > it's intended to be impossible, so obviously you can only get out > through flaws in the implementation... You can read the archives for info on this, either in -current or -hackers, I don't recall which. Terry frequently mentions that it is trivial to break out of a chroot environment, and that he had posted specifics at some point. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 21:08:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15154 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:08:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15149 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:08:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA18220; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:08:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA22595; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:08:02 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:08:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199811170508.WAA22595@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: bakul@torrentnet.com (Bakul Shah), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Supporting more than FD_SETSIZE fd's In-Reply-To: <199811170231.TAA05161@usr05.primenet.com> References: <199811162237.RAA02348@chai.torrentnet.com> <199811170231.TAA05161@usr05.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > Basically fd_set should have never been defined. > > > > > > Definitely agree. But... it's *still* stupid to call select with > > > a count that includes unallocated descriptors. > > > > You are preaching to the converted :-) > > Yah; just wanted to note that even though it should never have been > defined, it having never been defined is not an excuse to do the > wrong thing... > > I think I'm familiar with the section of code that Nate is > concerned with; I think by default that it does the wrong thing. Huh? The section of code that I'm concerned with uses Poll by default, and has been modified to use select since FreeBSD 2.* don't have poll, so I doubt your familiar with the code. The JDK doesn't use select unless you modify it to use select. :( Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 21:18:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16233 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:18:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16225 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:18:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA18286 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:17:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA22627; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:17:47 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:17:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199811170517.WAA22627@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Wrapping a function X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone have an easy way of 'wrapping' an already existing library function so that any programs linked against your .o will call your function, but so your function can call the 'real' library function? Example: my_malloc.c: void *malloc(size_t size) { void *ret; printf("Calling malloc\n"); ret = REALMALLOC(size); printf("Leaving malloc\n"); return ret; } Ignoring all of the functions where there is loss of errno and such, are they any good ideas? Note, the use of the dl* functions is explicitly not allowed since those happen to be the functions I want to wrap in this case. I'm at a loss here how to do this in C, so any good hacks are welcomed. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 21:22:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16483 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:22:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateway.aht.com (gateway.aht.com [12.9.165.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16478 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:22:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rblim@aht.com) Received: from conair.aht.com (mojave@[100.0.120.99]) by gateway.aht.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA00424 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:25:08 -0800 Message-ID: <3651092B.794BDF32@aht.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:27:07 -0800 From: Randy Bunchun Lim Organization: networking integration X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; U; BSD/OS 3.0 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: attach OKIDATA office44 to FreeBSD on PC?] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Return-Path: Received: from conair.aht.com (mojave@[100.0.120.99]) by gateway.aht.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28588; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:18:50 -0800 Sender: mojave@aht.com Message-ID: <3650891D.41C67EA6@aht.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:20:45 -0800 From: Randy Bunchun Lim Organization: networking integration X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; U; BSD/OS 3.0 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org CC: rblim@aht.com Subject: attach OKIDATA office44 to FreeBSD on PC? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I tried to send print jobs to OKIDATA office44 through parallel port but only to fail. Later on I figured out that this printer was a multifunction machine(supporting fax, scanning, and printing) so I could NOT send print jobs to printer using lpr to parallel port directly. There is a MFPI(Multi Function Peripheral Interface) driver between the Host and the MFP. Also the MFPI driver communicate to MFP using Bi-Centro I/F. But the current MFPI driver only support Window 95. There was NO Unix MFPI driver so far. I plan to implement MFPI driver on FreeBSD. And I need the following helps: 1, How did MFPI driver read/write the parallel port before lpr can start the burst data transfer? 2, where can I find more information about parallel port driver? Also I would like to ask if anybody had any experiences before to attach such printers to FreeBSD? Your quick response will be appreiated /Randy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 16 23:31:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02472 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:31:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02467 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:31:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkf@calweb.com) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id XAA16923 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:31:03 -0800 (PST) X-SMTP: helo web2.calweb.com from jkf@calweb.com server jkf@web2.calweb.com ip 208.131.56.52 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:31:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason K. Fritcher" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Process table question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello. I am making a system monitor for FreeBSD 2.[12].x and 3.0, and am trying to find a kvm-independant way of counting the number of processes in the process table. I have thought about using opendir() on /proc and counting the number of directory entries, but I was wondering if there was something like a sysctl or other system call to gather the information, or is the /proc method the best? Thanx! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason K. Fritcher System Administrator jkf@calweb.com CalWeb Internet Services http://www.calweb.com/ 916-641-9320 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 00:48:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10599 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:48:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [194.93.177.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10438 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:47:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19048; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:39:25 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:39:25 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Mike Smith Cc: Robert Nordier , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model Message-ID: <19981117103925.A16673@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: Mike Smith , Robert Nordier , FreeBSD Hackers References: <19981114191556.A17660@ucb.crimea.ua> <199811141904.LAA06709@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.15i In-Reply-To: <199811141904.LAA06709@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 11:04:28AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 11:04:28AM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: [...] > > > It seems that as(1) doesn't understand ``lcall $SECTION, $OFFSET''. > > At least on my 2.2.1, 2.2.5 and 2.2.7+ machines: > > No, it doesn't. You can either upgrade to a newer assembler, or > do it the "old" way: > > #define LCALL(x,y) .byte 0x9a ; .long y; .word x > > Note that on 3.0 systems we use int 0x80 for kernel entry, as it's > faster. > Could you please explain why it is _faster_ than ``lcall' and what is the difference between them? The only difference that I know of at the moment is that ``int 0x80'' will push EFlags, CS:EIP into stack, while ``lcall'' will only push CS:EIP pair. Where is the code that sets up protected mode and defines the layout of the kernel? Where is defined that syscall multiplexor is running on $7:$0? Thanks in advance, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 01:32:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14639 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 01:32:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA14634 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 01:32:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id KATRMCQJ; Tue, 17 Nov 98 09:31:39 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981117103136.009058a0@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:31:36 +0100 To: Ruslan Ermilov , Mike Smith From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model Cc: Robert Nordier , FreeBSD Hackers In-Reply-To: <19981117103925.A16673@ucb.crimea.ua> References: <199811141904.LAA06709@dingo.cdrom.com> <19981114191556.A17660@ucb.crimea.ua> <199811141904.LAA06709@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Could you please explain why it is _faster_ than ``lcall' and what is >the difference between them? This has to do with call gates vs interrupts. >The only difference that I know of at the moment is that ``int 0x80'' >will push EFlags, CS:EIP into stack, while ``lcall'' will only push >CS:EIP pair. Not quite true always. An lcall directly into a code segment which you have proper rights for, will do that. An lcall to a call gate may do quite a number of such operations, and- in the case of task gates- may cause a complete task switch. Similarly, there are multiple kinds of interrupts- trap interrupts, 'true' interrupts and task interrupts. Refer to the Intel 80386 technical docs, available from developer.intel.com >Where is the code that sets up protected mode and defines the layout >of the kernel? I believe this is in the second or third stage boot loader, but I may be mistaken, as I've never had a look at it. The first stage boot loader is too small to do such a thing, unless you use hardcoded offsets for the entrypoints and system structures. Doing it in the actual kernel seems stupid, as that would leave code in the kernel which is useless after bootup. --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 01:32:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14880 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 01:32:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from blue.newtoy.com (snowfox.pr.mcs.net [205.164.44.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14870 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 01:32:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from snowfox@newtoy.com) Received: from yellow (yellow.newtoy.com [205.164.44.74]) by blue.newtoy.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA07990; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:30:59 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from snowfox@newtoy.com) Message-ID: <009301be120d$54045f00$4a2ca4cd@yellow.newtoy.com> From: "SnowFox" To: "Nate Williams" , Subject: Re: Wrapping a function Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:31:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's no way to manage redundant symbols on the linker level, so unfortunately managing what you're after is going to require a complete rebuild when you want to remove the alloc thunker. The way I've done it has been... In a common header file for all .c files - #ifdef RAMTRACKER_SUPPORT #define malloc(x) my_alloc(x) #define free(x) my_free(x) ...etc #endif /* RAMTRACKER_SUPPORT */ Then, in my_alloc.c... #ifdef RAMTRACKER_SUPPORT /* make entire file go away if not defined */ #undef RAMTRACKER_SUPPORT /* don't override functions in the scope of this file */ #include "my_header.h" /* implement my_alloc, my_free, anything else */ #endif /* RAMTRACKER_SUPPORT */ Also of note, you can do this too... #define malloc(X) my_alloc((x), __FILE__, __LINE__) I'm sure you see the use there. ;) For my own C++ projects, I've written a suite of functions that tell me exactly what leaks where and watch for half a dozen obscure C++ memory management mistakes, dumping everything to a log file when the program terminates. If you want it so you can extract whatever's useful to you, drop me a note outside the list. -----Original Message----- From: Nate Williams To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 11:17 PM Subject: Wrapping a function >Does anyone have an easy way of 'wrapping' an already existing library >function so that any programs linked against your .o will call your >function, but so your function can call the 'real' library function? > >Example: > >my_malloc.c: > >void *malloc(size_t size) >{ > void *ret; > > printf("Calling malloc\n"); > ret = REALMALLOC(size); > printf("Leaving malloc\n"); > return ret; >} > >Ignoring all of the functions where there is loss of errno and such, are >they any good ideas? Note, the use of the dl* functions is explicitly >not allowed since those happen to be the functions I want to wrap in >this case. > >I'm at a loss here how to do this in C, so any good hacks are welcomed. > > >Nate > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 03:27:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26174 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:27:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m2-59-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA26152 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:27:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA09173; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:11:58 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199811171111.NAA09173@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981117103136.009058a0@mail.scancall.no> from Marius Bendiksen at "Nov 17, 98 10:31:36 am" To: Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no (Marius Bendiksen) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:11:54 +0200 (SAT) Cc: ru@ucb.crimea.ua, mike@smith.net.au, rnordier@nordier.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Marius Bendiksen wrote: > >Could you please explain why it is _faster_ than ``lcall' and what is > >the difference between them? > > This has to do with call gates vs interrupts. > > >The only difference that I know of at the moment is that ``int 0x80'' > >will push EFlags, CS:EIP into stack, while ``lcall'' will only push > >CS:EIP pair. > > Not quite true always. An lcall directly into a code segment which you have > proper rights for, will do that. An lcall to a call gate may do quite a > number of such operations, and- in the case of task gates- may cause a > complete task switch. Similarly, there are multiple kinds of interrupts- > trap interrupts, 'true' interrupts and task interrupts. As Marius says, it's mainly down to what the instructions point at, rather that the instructions themselves. Though, that said, an interrupt rather than a far call is also just a more "natural" way to accomplish the particular task. (Anyway, go see for yourself: the relevant functions are in src/sys/i386/i386/exception.s.) > > Refer to the Intel 80386 technical docs, available from developer.intel.com > > >Where is the code that sets up protected mode and defines the layout > >of the kernel? > > I believe this is in the second or third stage boot loader, but I may be > mistaken, as I've never had a look at it. The first stage boot loader is > too small to do such a thing, unless you use hardcoded offsets for the > entrypoints and system structures. Doing it in the actual kernel seems > stupid, as that would leave code in the kernel which is useless after bootup. In fact, almost all initialization is done in the kernel. Some basic (unavoidable) initialization takes place in the bootstrap (on the i386, getting into protected mode, enabling the A20 line, etc) but as little as possible. There has been some discussion about moving more of the initialization into the bootstrap code, but I won't really agree that doing it in the kernel is "stupid". Just as writing almost everything in C (rather than assembler) is part of the UNIX philosophy, convenience and maintainability are often more important than merely saving bytes. If you're interested in this stuff, you probably want to look at many of the files in src/sys/i386/i386, starting with locore.s (where the actual interaction with the bootstrap takes place). -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 03:48:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28012 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:48:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA28007 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:48:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA21189; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:47:52 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA20053; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:47:50 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981117124748.34840@follo.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:47:48 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Mohit Aron , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: problems with NFS/VM References: <199811170052.SAA04707@elf.cs.rice.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199811170052.SAA04707@elf.cs.rice.edu>; from Mohit Aron on Mon, Nov 16, 1998 at 06:52:56PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Nov 16, 1998 at 06:52:56PM -0600, Mohit Aron wrote: > I'm not familiar with the NFS code in FreeBSD and I'll appreciate any pointers > to fix the above problems. I've already tried using FreeBSD-2.2-stable and > the problems are still there. I'd suggest switching at least the server to 3.0. There have been a large number of NFS fixes/changes; backporting these are difficult, and is thus not likely to get done. Unfortunate as it is, I think the NFS problems in the 2.2 branch will keep on through its lifetime. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 03:52:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28429 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:52:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA28424 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:52:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id KAVABSLJ; Tue, 17 Nov 98 11:52:05 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981117125202.00916bb0@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:52:02 +0100 To: Robert Nordier From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811171111.NAA09173@ceia.nordier.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19981117103136.009058a0@mail.scancall.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >As Marius says, it's mainly down to what the instructions point at, >rather that the instructions themselves. Though, that said, an In fact, implementing multiple calling conventions would be possible without too much work, I think. Changing the existing ones shouldn't be too hard. I've not looked at the source code, though. >interrupt rather than a far call is also just a more "natural" way to I've not looked upon interrupts beyond hardware handling, but I seem to recall call gates being preferrable for isolation reasons, but I'm not sure, so don't flame me if I'm wrong ;) >In fact, almost all initialization is done in the kernel. Some basic >(unavoidable) initialization takes place in the bootstrap (on the i386, >getting into protected mode, enabling the A20 line, etc) but as little >as possible. Yeah. That's what I'd assume. The bootstrap initializes protected mode, and basically gets the kernel ready to go, while the kernel does have initialization code. >There has been some discussion about moving more of the initialization >into the bootstrap code, but I won't really agree that doing it in the >kernel is "stupid". Just as writing almost everything in C (rather >than assembler) is part of the UNIX philosophy, convenience and >maintainability are often more important than merely saving bytes. That's a point. Doing it in the kernel only costs a few additional kb. OTOH, moving it to the bootstrap would be yet another step in the process of moving away from a monolithic kernel. IIRC, people expressed a desire to do so some time ago. >If you're interested in this stuff, you probably want to look at many >of the files in src/sys/i386/i386, starting with locore.s (where the >actual interaction with the bootstrap takes place). In truth, I can't stand AT&T syntax, and I was merely attempting to clarify this. If there is an ongoing effort towards moving things out of the kernel, or changing the syscall interface, I'd be interested in having a look at it, to see if it's anything I'd be able to help with. Obtw; am I correct in assuming that moving to an interrupt-based syscall interface makes linux-emulation easier? --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 03:55:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28933 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:55:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA28916 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:55:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA21828; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:54:19 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA20091; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:54:19 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981117125419.28799@follo.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:54:19 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Mike Smith , Harold Gutch Cc: zhihuizhang , hackers Subject: Re: Question on chroot() References: <19981115200813.B12524@foobar.franken.de> <199811152056.MAA14163@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199811152056.MAA14163@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 12:56:03PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 12:56:03PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 09:56:32AM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > Breaking out of a chroot'ed environment is less easy if you're not > > > root > > Is this meant to be read as "more or less impossible", that is, > > impossible unless the user can become root first (due to insecure > > suid-root binaries in the chroot-environment etc.), or can users > > really break out in more or less every situation (of course > > assuming stuff like that they don't have any open filehandles > > pointing to the outside in the beginning). > > It's quite difficult to break out of a chroot'ed environment, yes, and > it's intended to be impossible, so obviously you can only get out > through flaws in the implementation... It is easy if you have root privileges inside the "jail". /* pseudo-code */ mkdir("mybreakdir", 0700); breakfd = open(".", 0, 0); chroot("mybreakdir"); fchdir(breakfd); for (i=0; i<1000; i++) chdir(".."); chroot("."); I'm not sure if you need the fchdir(); chroot() is not supposed to affect your current directory. I don't think anybody has fixed the above problem; it seems quite difficult to fix (you have to know which FDs are inside and outside the jail, which is non-trivial). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 05:48:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA13772 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 05:48:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA13767 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 05:48:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA27181; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:48:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13852; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:30:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id IAA11670; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:48:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:48:40 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199811171348.IAA11670@lakes.dignus.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: Wrapping a function In-Reply-To: <199811170517.WAA22627@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Does anyone have an easy way of 'wrapping' an already existing library > function so that any programs linked against your .o will call your > function, but so your function can call the 'real' library function? > > Example: > > my_malloc.c: > > void *malloc(size_t size) > { > void *ret; > > printf("Calling malloc\n"); > ret = REALMALLOC(size); > printf("Leaving malloc\n"); > return ret; > } > > Ignoring all of the functions where there is loss of errno and such, are > they any good ideas? Note, the use of the dl* functions is explicitly > not allowed since those happen to be the functions I want to wrap in > this case. > > I'm at a loss here how to do this in C, so any good hacks are welcomed. > > > Nate > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > I don't know about our linker (gnu-ld) - but many UNIX linkers (and other systems as well) have a way to re-name identifiers. The standard trick would be to pre-link the malloc code from the library; renaming the malloc entry there - to say, MALLOC. (ld -r is how you prelink.) Then, you can link your code with that. - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 05:54:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14473 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 05:54:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m2-33-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14468 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 05:54:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA10216; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:38:07 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199811171338.PAA10216@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981117125202.00916bb0@mail.scancall.no> from Marius Bendiksen at "Nov 17, 98 12:52:02 pm" To: Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no (Marius Bendiksen) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:38:05 +0200 (SAT) Cc: rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Marius Bendiksen wrote: > >As Marius says, it's mainly down to what the instructions point at, > >rather that the instructions themselves. Though, that said, an > > In fact, implementing multiple calling conventions would be possible > without too much work, I think. Changing the existing ones shouldn't be too > hard. I've not looked at the source code, though. Yes, flow of control is all though a central point, so the sky's probably the limit. If you want to produce a system which won't run standard binaries, for instance (which may be handy for security reasons), it would be fairly trivial here. > > >interrupt rather than a far call is also just a more "natural" way to > > I've not looked upon interrupts beyond hardware handling, but I seem to > recall call gates being preferrable for isolation reasons, but I'm not > sure, so don't flame me if I'm wrong ;) I guess it mostly depends on context and personal preference. The i386 is one of those "kitchen sink" architectures, where it often makes sense to define a usable feature subset. You inevitably have to deal with interrupt/trap gates anyway, so it can simplify the support code considerably, if you deal only with those. In the case of FreeBSD, the lcall actually does result in some register juggling in order to produce a trap frame; so maybe this bears out the above philosophy. > >There has been some discussion about moving more of the initialization > >into the bootstrap code, but I won't really agree that doing it in the > >kernel is "stupid". Just as writing almost everything in C (rather > >than assembler) is part of the UNIX philosophy, convenience and > >maintainability are often more important than merely saving bytes. > > That's a point. Doing it in the kernel only costs a few additional kb. > OTOH, moving it to the bootstrap would be yet another step in the process > of moving away from a monolithic kernel. IIRC, people expressed a desire to > do so some time ago. Things are certainly heading in that direction. > >If you're interested in this stuff, you probably want to look at many > >of the files in src/sys/i386/i386, starting with locore.s (where the > >actual interaction with the bootstrap takes place). > > In truth, I can't stand AT&T syntax, and I was merely attempting to clarify > this. If there is an ongoing effort towards moving things out of the > kernel, or changing the syscall interface, I'd be interested in having a > look at it, to see if it's anything I'd be able to help with. I doubt there's any win in changing the syscall interface at this stage; but moving initialization code is a potential project. Of course there are potentially massive inertia, compatibility and other non-technical problems associated with this. :-) > Obtw; am I correct in assuming that moving to an interrupt-based syscall > interface makes linux-emulation easier? Well, both Linux and NetBSD apparently use the int 0x80 approach; but I should think the basic mechanism is most likely a fairly small part of the complete picture. In most emulation, semantics rather than syntax tends to be where things get tricky. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 06:06:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15274 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:06:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA15261 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:06:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA07045; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:05:39 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:05:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Mohit Aron cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: problems with NFS/VM In-Reply-To: <199811170052.SAA04707@elf.cs.rice.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG well my only comment based on working with the freebsd nfs code for the last 4 or so years is that mmap'ed files are marginal. Simple things like msync don't work correctly in 3.0-current. The problems are partly bugs and partly architectural. You've found one rule for getting good stat data -- open the file. But a simpler rule for mmap'ed files: avoid over NFS. ron Ron Minnich |"Using Windows NT, which is known to have some rminnich@sarnoff.com | failure modes, on a warship is similar to hoping (609)-734-3120 | that luck will be in our favor"- A. Digiorgio ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 06:16:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA16727 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:16:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA16713 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:16:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA20529; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:18:11 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199811171218.NAA20529@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Wrapping a function To: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:18:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com In-Reply-To: <199811171348.IAA11670@lakes.dignus.com> from "Thomas David Rivers" at Nov 17, 98 08:48:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Does anyone have an easy way of 'wrapping' an already existing library > > function so that any programs linked against your .o will call your > > function, but so your function can call the 'real' library function? ... I am not sure about the details, but for sure a look at crunchide/cruncgen would help. I think these programs play with the linker's symbol tables and if they can hide symbols almost surely they can be used (with small mods) to rename symbols. luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 06:39:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19852 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:39:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA19847 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:38:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id KAWPQUOJ; Tue, 17 Nov 98 14:38:32 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981117153828.0092dbe0@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:38:28 +0100 To: Robert Nordier From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811171338.PAA10216@ceia.nordier.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19981117125202.00916bb0@mail.scancall.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Yes, flow of control is all though a central point, so the sky's >probably the limit. If you want to produce a system which won't run Indeed. Compare with OS/2, which has 4 or 5 different calling conventions, plus a couple which only the IBM compilers use. >standard binaries, for instance (which may be handy for security >reasons), it would be fairly trivial here. Let's not get into a debate over the 'security through obscurity' philosophy here. :) >I guess it mostly depends on context and personal preference. The i386 Probably. I prefer call gates, though. >with interrupt/trap gates anyway, so it can simplify the support code >considerably, if you deal only with those. Depends on the basic syscall mechanism, doesn't it? >In the case of FreeBSD, the lcall actually does result in some register >juggling in order to produce a trap frame; so maybe this bears out >the above philosophy. As I said, I've not looked closer at this code, so I'm not familiar with how this is done. >Things are certainly heading in that direction. And for a fairly good reason :) >I doubt there's any win in changing the syscall interface at this *nod* The syscall interface is probably just fine as it is. I was only stating that if, for some reason, the work had to be done, I'd consider working on it. >stage; but moving initialization code is a potential project. Of >course there are potentially massive inertia, compatibility and other >non-technical problems associated with this. :-) Any volunteers? Objections? Ideas about the scale of such an effort? An idea of the impact it might have? >Well, both Linux and NetBSD apparently use the int 0x80 approach; but I >should think the basic mechanism is most likely a fairly small part of >the complete picture. In most emulation, semantics rather than syntax >tends to be where things get tricky. Yup. Hmm; using call gates for the BSD calls, and int 0x80 for the emulation calls might be good for the compatlinux project's health, but, hey, I'm shooting in the dark here. --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 07:28:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24955 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:28:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24941 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:28:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from ics.com (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id KAA00139 Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:28:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36519613.52DA940@ics.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:28:19 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: First Impression of 3.0-RELEASE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'll start by saying that the upgrade/install went flawlessly and kudos for that. I'm also happy that FreeBSD is finally using ELF. Generally I'm a happy guy (except for the rock solid system wedge my system gets after every second file copy to an MSDOS filesystem on a floppy.) But there are a few flies in the ELF ointment I've noticed while working on the X11 Sample Implementation: First, the ELF ld.so.cache. I've noticed somewhere else that NetBSD (their Alpha FAQ maybe?) acknowledges the correctness of using the RUNPATH in each program rather than having a global ld.so.cache; thus there's no ld.so.cache on NetBSD. Linux's continued use of the same ld.so.cache for both a.out and ELF is plenty bad, but their old loader never had support for a runpath, so in a way it's sort of justifiable that they still have it. But given that FreeBSD has had runpaths in a.out (broken as it is/was) for a long time now I think it's time FreeBSD dumped this archaic piece of cruft. Someone will undoubtedly try to defend this old hack by saying that "no one but the system admin really knows where things are going to go, yada, yada"; but in truth, if that were true, why doesn't NetBSD, and all the commercial SVR4 not need it too! Indeed, because it's just not true. When I, or XFree86, or someone else build and package software that expects libraries and other things to be in, e.g. /usr/X11R6/lib, then that's really where they ought to go. I think the system admins around the world realize that and plan their systems accordingly. Two, ldd works on ELF programs but not on ELF libraries? This is just strange. I suppose I can always ship my libraries over to an SVR4 or Linux system in order to {ldd,dump,odump} them. I know, I can always step up to the task of fixing it, or writing odump, myself. I'll get right on it after I've finished all the other stuff I'm working on. Really. Any day now. :-) Third, transitive linking doesn't work. I.e if I link libXt with -lSM -lICE, and then link a program with -lXt, I get unresolved externals for libSM and libICE. Should I? The program does not make any calls to libSM or libICE, so I don't think I should. Leastways I don't get them on all the other systems that use ELF, and I'd wager that if I looked, I could find something in the ELF specification (a.k.a. the SystemV ABI) that speaks to this. Of the three things, I think this is far and away the most serious shortcoming. Nothing's going to fix this for 3.0, so some sort of kludgie work-around will have to be employed. I hope someone will fix this for the next release. For all the agonizing about companies that will port their product to Linux but not to FreeBSD, I have to say that I do sympathise with them. These sorts of niggling inconsistencies are a bane to software developers. I hope you'll consider the changes I'm suggesting. If you don't agree with them, that's okay with me. Please don't send me email telling me I'm wrong about the ld.so.cache or the transitive linking. These are the way I think they should work -- I'm not going to change my mind -- and if they don't change, I'll live with them. I want to register my opinion about the way I think things ought to be. (Feel free to ignore my opinions, almost everyone else does. :-) -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 07:40:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26310 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:40:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26304 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:40:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from o2.cs.rpi.edu (root@o2.cs.rpi.edu [128.113.96.156]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17683; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:40:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (crossd@localhost) by o2.cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA14266; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:40:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: o2.cs.rpi.edu: crossd owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:40:30 -0500 From: "David E. Cross" To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First Impression of 3.0-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <36519613.52DA940@ics.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I will answer this one point with my experience on SGI IRIX 6.2+ machines that experience this same behaviour. If I link libpng.so with libz.so, I *still* need to link any binaries with both libpng.so and libz.so. > Third, transitive linking doesn't work. I.e if I link libXt with -lSM > -lICE, and then link a program with -lXt, I get unresolved externals for > libSM and libICE. Should I? The program does not make any calls to libSM > or libICE, so I don't think I should. Leastways I don't get them on all > the other systems that use ELF, and I'd wager that if I looked, I could > find something in the ELF specification (a.k.a. the SystemV ABI) that > speaks to this. Of the three things, I think this is far and away the > most serious shortcoming. Nothing's going to fix this for 3.0, so some > sort of kludgie work-around will have to be employed. I hope someone > will fix this for the next release. -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 07:43:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26458 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:43:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mf002.infoweb.ne.jp (mf002.infoweb.ne.jp [210.131.99.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26453 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:43:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fwkh7121@mb.infoweb.ne.jp) Received: from mb.infoweb.ne.jp by mf002.infoweb.ne.jp (8.9.1+3.1W/3.7W-10/29/98) with ESMTP id XAA15968; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:14:17 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36517E59.9C5EB459@mb.infoweb.ne.jp> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:47:05 +0900 From: Masahiro Sekiguchi Reply-To: fe-info@geocities.co.jp Organization: InfoWeb user X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [ja] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: fe-info@geocities.co.jp Subject: New if_fe driver for 2.2.x available on web Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hackers, This is an announcement of availability of a new version of if_fe driver for FreeBSD 2.2.6, 2.2.7 and coming 2.2.8 RELEASEs. Testers are welcomed. It is available on WWW through the following web page: http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-PaloAlto/9700/p9808-en.html (The above page is written in English, although the site is mostly in Japanese.) Please grab it, try it and let me know what happened on you configuration. New features in this version include: o Support for new boards: ICL EtherTeam16i, TDK LAK-AX012, -AX013, and -AX031, RATOC REX-5586/5587, UB Network KK's Access/PC ISA, and some of Gateway Communications' old Ethernet cards. o Network media selection based on if_media interface. o Dot 3 MIBs supported through if_mib mechanism. (Incomplete.) Any questions, comments, and/or bug reports must be sent to . I'm currently not on the -hackers list, so a reply sent to the list will not reach me. I read Japanese and English. (Japanese preferred.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 07:48:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26757 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:48:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA26752 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:47:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: from caig1.fw.att.com by cagw1.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/UPAS-1.0) for freebsd.org!hackers sender dcn.att.com!sbabkin (dcn.att.com!sbabkin); Tue Nov 17 10:25 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by caig1.fw.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id KAA13538 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:33:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:33:45 -0500 Message-ID: To: nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Wrapping a function Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:33:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Nate Williams [SMTP:nate@mt.sri.com] > > Does anyone have an easy way of 'wrapping' an already existing library > function so that any programs linked against your .o will call your > function, but so your function can call the 'real' library function? > > Example: > > my_malloc.c: > > void *malloc(size_t size) > { > void *ret; > > printf("Calling malloc\n"); > ret = REALMALLOC(size); > printf("Leaving malloc\n"); > return ret; > } > > Ignoring all of the functions where there is loss of errno and such, are > they any good ideas? Note, the use of the dl* functions is explicitly > not allowed since those happen to be the functions I want to wrap in > this case. > I see no way to do it in C, but I have done such things multiple times with the object files. The key is to rename the entries in the symbol tables of object files. Here are two ways: 1. Rename the calls from another object file. This is useful is you want to substitute your function for only one object file in program, and leave others as is (a good example would be a binary driver linked to the kernel). Take this object file and using a binary editor (xvi, for example) change all the occurrences of "malloc" in the symbol table to something like "xxxloc". Then name your wrapper function "xxxloc" and that's it. 2. Rename the calls from all user-level object file. Copy the library with "malloc", extract the object file with "malloc" from it, change "malloc" to "xxxloc", insert back into the library and link this changed library explicitly instead of the standard one. Your wrapper function should then be named "malloc" and call "xxxloc". -Sergey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 07:55:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27700 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:55:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA27694 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:55:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA10681; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:54:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:54:36 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: "David E. Cross" cc: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First Impression of 3.0-RELEASE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, David E. Cross wrote: > > I will answer this one point with my experience on SGI IRIX 6.2+ machines > that experience this same behaviour. If I link libpng.so with libz.so, I > *still* need to link any binaries with both libpng.so and libz.so. > > > Third, transitive linking doesn't work. I.e if I link libXt with -lSM > > -lICE, and then link a program with -lXt, I get unresolved externals for > > libSM and libICE. Should I? The program does not make any calls to libSM > > or libICE, so I don't think I should. Leastways I don't get them on all > > the other systems that use ELF, and I'd wager that if I looked, I could > > find something in the ELF specification (a.k.a. the SystemV ABI) that > > speaks to this. Of the three things, I think this is far and away the > > most serious shortcoming. Nothing's going to fix this for 3.0, so some > > sort of kludgie work-around will have to be employed. I hope someone > > will fix this for the next release. Yes, you do, and boy does linker get cranky if you don't. He's right about ld paths though. It's up to the user to set their own LD_LIBRARY_PATH, which I personally hate. I don't want to move libraries around, but their is no way to modify the system default, which FreeBSD allows, so I have quite a few softlinks in my /usr/lib directory on my Irix boxes. Jamie Bowden -- Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 07:59:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28026 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:59:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isi.co.jp (mail.isi.co.jp [202.214.62.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA28021; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:59:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john@isi.co.jp) Received: by ns.isi.co.jp id <21890>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:58:06 +0900 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:51:36 +0900 From: john cooper To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BIND/Mail/MX Question.. Cc: john@isi.co.jp, tfujii@isi.co.jp Message-Id: <98Nov18.005806jst.21890@ns.isi.co.jp> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been trying to get a firewall cobbled together with 2.2.7. The problem I'm now having appears to center around maintaining internal and external DNS databases on the firewall [this is the way our current black-box firewall does it, I don't know if there is an easier way..] For example, outside the firewall there are 202.214.* addresses and inside 192.168.* addresses. Aside from the issue of exposing internal machine info externally, at least at this stage I could live with putting all info in one space. The trouble I'm having is that if I use: isi.co.jp. IN MX 50 ms.isi.co.jp. ; local mail host IN MX 100 ws.isi.co.jp. where ms.isi.co.jp's address is internal [192.168.*], mail coming from outside our domain gets deflected to ws.isi.co.jp. sitting on the external side of the FW [202.214.*]. As I understand, the MX record is required to relay mail from the FW/DNS server to the internal mail server. However if this local MX info gets exposed externally, the above problem occurs. This seems to me to be a fairly normal thing to do. Would someone kindly clue me in on the standard way this is solved? Thanks, -john To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 08:39:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02737 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:39:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02732 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:39:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA22434; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:38:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA24053; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:38:37 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:38:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199811171638.JAA24053@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Thomas David Rivers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: Wrapping a function In-Reply-To: <199811171348.IAA11670@lakes.dignus.com> References: <199811170517.WAA22627@mt.sri.com> <199811171348.IAA11670@lakes.dignus.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Does anyone have an easy way of 'wrapping' an already existing library > > function so that any programs linked against your .o will call your > > function, but so your function can call the 'real' library function? > > > > Example: > > > > my_malloc.c: > > > > void *malloc(size_t size) > > { > > void *ret; > > > > printf("Calling malloc\n"); > > ret = REALMALLOC(size); > > printf("Leaving malloc\n"); > > return ret; > > } > > > > I don't know about our linker (gnu-ld) - but many UNIX linkers (and other > systems as well) have a way to re-name identifiers. > > The standard trick would be to pre-link the malloc code from the library; > renaming the malloc entry there - to say, MALLOC. (ld -r is how you > prelink.) > > Then, you can link your code with that. Unfortunately, the symbol exists in a shlib, so it must use the same symbol name as the library since sometimes the shlib exists, and other times it doesn't. :( (Don't ask, it's not my code but the JDK. They get around this problem in Solaris by being aware that dlsym happens to be a simple C function that calls _dlsym, so in the JDK they call _dlsym directly and hope no-one else is aware of this feature.) Sounds like I'll just not be able to wrap those functions. :( Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 08:44:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03722 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:44:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.wan (trltech.demon.co.uk [194.222.7.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03678; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:44:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk) Received: from jezebel.demon.co.uk (rdls.dhcp.sw.wan [192.9.201.75]) by ns.wan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11087; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:40:48 GMT (envelope-from richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk) Message-ID: <3651A72B.D1F8E96D@jezebel.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:41:15 +0000 From: Richard Smith Organization: http://www.trltech.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: john cooper CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, tfujii@isi.co.jp Subject: Re: BIND/Mail/MX Question.. References: <98Nov18.005806jst.21890@ns.isi.co.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG john cooper wrote: > [snip] > > The trouble I'm having is that if I use: > > isi.co.jp. IN MX 50 ms.isi.co.jp. ; local mail host > IN MX 100 ws.isi.co.jp. > > where ms.isi.co.jp's address is internal [192.168.*], mail > coming from outside our domain gets deflected to ws.isi.co.jp. > sitting on the external side of the FW [202.214.*]. You shouldn't expose 192.168/16 outside of your intranet. > As I understand, the MX record is required to relay mail from > the FW/DNS server to the internal mail server. However if > this local MX info gets exposed externally, the above problem > occurs. FWIW, I run sendmail on the FW and use mailertable to route mail to the 'true' internal mail hub. If you only have one internal mail hub and you are using natd, you could use a -redirect_port to point to the internal mail hub. Either way, the external IP of the FW is exposed in the MX. > This seems to me to be a fairly normal thing to do. Would > someone kindly clue me in on the standard way this is solved? > > Thanks, > > -john > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message richard. _______________________________________________________________________ Richard Smith Assistant Chief Engineer TRL Technology Limited To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 10:47:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22810 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:47:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22804 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:47:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20492; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:45:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:45:30 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Nicolas Souchu Subject: Re: ZIP+ and NatSemi parallel port chipst (was Re: ZIP, again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > On 17-Nov-98 Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > >> Well it gets probed as da2... Except all my devices in fstab are still sd > >> instead of their da counterparts. I wanted to convert them, but found the > >> man-pages to be sketchy at best, and since I don't want to disable my system > >> again ;) > > > > The sd* and da* devices have the same major/minor numbers. Cam is > > color-blind at that range, you haven't anything to worry about. It's > > probably a good idea to update your devices and fstab, against some > > future change, but right now, it doesn't matter. > > Well, let's put it like this: > > I have tried every ./MAKEDEV I knew to get the equivalents of my current used > sd* entries. Or am I supposed to disklabel them to da counterparts first and > then MAKEDEV and update /etc/fstab? > > I really couldn't find any good pointers on this. With most of the da manpages > still in the fingers ;) (the 9 section). You miss the point ... it's a name only, and disklabel is going by the major/minor numbers, and can't even see it. If you rename the files in /dev (the sd# -> da#) and change your fstab, you'll be complete. Better yet, copy the sd# into da#, at which time your fstab can use either set of numbers, so you don't stand any chance of hurting yourself. I'm not certain this is a subject for current (cam is released on cdrom now). Let's post followups (if any) to questions or hackers, ok? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 12:20:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06290 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:20:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06285 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:20:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA13979; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdj13975; Tue Nov 17 20:10:42 1998 Message-ID: <3651D810.42877E5C@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:09:52 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund CC: Mike Smith , Harold Gutch , zhihuizhang , hackers Subject: Re: Question on chroot() References: <19981115200813.B12524@foobar.franken.de> <199811152056.MAA14163@dingo.cdrom.com> <19981117125419.28799@follo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 12:56:03PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 09:56:32AM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Breaking out of a chroot'ed environment is less easy if you're not > > > > root > > > Is this meant to be read as "more or less impossible", that is, > > > impossible unless the user can become root first (due to insecure > > > suid-root binaries in the chroot-environment etc.), or can users > > > really break out in more or less every situation (of course > > > assuming stuff like that they don't have any open filehandles > > > pointing to the outside in the beginning). > > > > It's quite difficult to break out of a chroot'ed environment, yes, and > > it's intended to be impossible, so obviously you can only get out > > through flaws in the implementation... > > It is easy if you have root privileges inside the "jail". > > /* pseudo-code */ > mkdir("mybreakdir", 0700); > breakfd = open(".", 0, 0); > chroot("mybreakdir"); > fchdir(breakfd); > for (i=0; i<1000; i++) > chdir(".."); > chroot("."); I think I posted that a few years ago :) I looked for it in the archives but couldn't find it.. where was it :-) > > I'm not sure if you need the fchdir(); chroot() is not supposed to > affect your current directory. I don't think anybody has fixed the > above problem; it seems quite difficult to fix (you have to know which > FDs are inside and outside the jail, which is non-trivial). You can test all fds that are directories to see if they are outside the chroot, and fail the chroot if there are any such. However it doesn't help because you can fork, open a unix domain socket, and have the child do the chroot and then have the parent send it an fd that would have made the chroot fail. result.. chroot is only useful for friendly or non-root processes. there could be a few things that would fix this.. e.g. don't allow recursive chroots but it's trickier than it first appears. > > Eivind. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 12:23:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06821 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:23:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06816 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:23:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11797; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd011709; Tue Nov 17 11:06:54 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA03809; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:06:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811171806.LAA03809@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model To: Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no (Marius Bendiksen) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:06:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981117125202.00916bb0@mail.scancall.no> from "Marius Bendiksen" at Nov 17, 98 12:52:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >interrupt rather than a far call is also just a more "natural" way to > > I've not looked upon interrupts beyond hardware handling, but I seem to > recall call gates being preferrable for isolation reasons, but I'm not > sure, so don't flame me if I'm wrong ;) Actually, you can swap the same stuff as a result of an interrupt; see: Protected Mode Software Architecture Tom Shanley MindShare, Inc. ISBN: 0-201-55447-X Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 12:39:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08954 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:39:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA08937; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:39:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA09929; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:44:17 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199811172044.PAA09929@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Call for testers for VIA Rhine ethernet driver To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:44:15 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a call for testers for those with fast ethernet adapters based on the VIA Technologies VT3043 Rhine I and VT86C100A Rhine II controller chips. This includes the D-Link DFE530-TX fast ethernet card (which is what I used for testing -- special thanks to Larry Baird from GTA for donating it, plus a whole mess of other cards). Note that the controller chip on the D-Link card doesn't actually have the VIA part number on it. Instead's it's labeled something like DL10030. In reality, this is a VT3043 chip. The VIA Rhine chip looks very mich like a DEC tulip: the descriptor format is almost identical. The register layout is different though, and the receiver has the usual 1 entry perfect filter and 64-bit multicast hash filter. One other downside is that the transmit DMA engine wants all packet buffers to be aligned on longword boundaries, which requires buffer copies on transmit. Oddly enough, the chip works pretty fast in spite of this. The driver is available from the following location: http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/VIA/3.0 source for FreeBSD 3.0 http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/VIA/2.2 source for FreeBSD 2.2.x To add the driver to an existing system, do the following: - Download the correct version of if_vr.c and if_vrreg.h for your version of FreeBSD. - Copy if_vr.c and if_vrreg.h to /sys/pci. - Edit /sys/conf/files and add a line that says: pci/if_vr.c optional vr device driver - Edit your kernel config file (e.g. /sys/i386/conf/GENERIC) and add a line that says: device vr0 - Config and compile a new kernel and boot it. Like all the other drivers, this one supports all modes, BPF, ifmedia and hardware multicast filtering using the hash table. As usual, send any success or failure reports to wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 12:46:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10260 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:46:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [195.187.243.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10222 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:46:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA25037; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:51:48 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:51:48 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: "Jason K. Fritcher" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Process table question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Jason K. Fritcher wrote: > > Hello. I am making a system monitor for FreeBSD 2.[12].x and 3.0, and am > trying to find a kvm-independant way of counting the number of processes in > the process table. I have thought about using opendir() on /proc and > counting the number of directory entries, but I was wondering if there was > something like a sysctl or other system call to gather the information, or Sure. See: src/release/picobsd/tinyware/sps for example how to do this. > is the /proc method the best? It's one of many. IMHO sysctl(3) is the best one. Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 13:01:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12850 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:01:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12832; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:01:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA02065; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:58:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from karpen) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199811172058.VAA02065@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? In-Reply-To: <199811161838.MAA25024@s07.sa.fedex.com> from William McVey at "Nov 16, 98 12:38:11 pm" To: wam@sa.fedex.com (William McVey) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:58:15 +0100 (CET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to William McVey: > I'm in favor of the proposed change to allow some group (for discussion > sake, lets call it group 'shadow') read permission to the shadow file. Umm... I have seen no one in this discussion mention this, so I'll say it, after repeating what someone DID say "Small well audited setuid programs are not a problem". Now... Here's my suggestion, my_xlock.c: int main() { char *str; FILE *f; int done = 0; lock_screen(); while (!done) { str = wait_for_passwd(); f = popen("/usr/bin/check_pw", "w"); fprintf(f, "%d %s\n", getuid(), str); fflush(f); if (!pclose(f)) { unlock_screen(); done = 1; } else { print_errror("Wrong password"); } } return 0; } Seems simple enough to me, and could be used from scripts and everything. All you need is a small util (/usr/bin/check_pw) that is setuid root. I can't see a security problem with this, at all. Failed logins could be logged also, if that's a concern. All it has to do is something like: int main() { char buffer[100]; struct passwd *pw; uind_t uid; char *str; char *setting; fgets(buffer, sizeof buffer, stdin); if (isdigit(buffer[0])) { uid = strtol(buffer, &str, 0); if (!*str) exit(1); pw = getpwuid(uid); } else { while (!isspace(*str)) str++; if (!*str) exit(1); *str = '\0'; pw = getpwnam(buffer); } str++; setting = get_setting_and_move_str(&str); if (strcmp(pw->pw_passwd, crypt(str, setting)) == 0) return 0; return 1; } I'm sure there are minor or even major mistakes in the programs above, but I think everyone should get the idea, if the problems are just syntax errors, and such. The check_pw program should be small enough to be quite possible to do as close to 100% bug free as one can hope to get. /Mikael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 13:12:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15448 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:12:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15396 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:11:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17093; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:01:39 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:01:38 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:59:38PM +0000 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:59:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: [ Creating /etc/rc.d, populating with scripts to start/stop system daemons, tweaking /etc/rc* to use these scripts instead ] > What are people's thoughts on doing the same thing to the base system? Well, the silence has been deafening. I've had three positive comments by private mail, no negative comments by private mail, and nothing on the list at all. Not even a "Take one step down that road and we *will* kill your firstborn". Is everyone asleep? If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 13:29:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18130 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:29:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (50.camalott.com [208.203.140.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18111 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:29:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA04702; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:29:09 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Nate Williams Cc: Thomas David Rivers , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wrapping a function References: <199811170517.WAA22627@mt.sri.com> <199811171348.IAA11670@lakes.dignus.com> <199811171638.JAA24053@mt.sri.com> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 17 Nov 1998 15:29:06 -0600 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams's message of "Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:38:37 -0700" Message-ID: <86lnlaypnh.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>> Does anyone have an easy way of 'wrapping' an already existing library >>> function so that any programs linked against your .o will call your >>> function, but so your function can call the 'real' library function? >> The standard trick would be to pre-link the malloc code from the library; >> renaming the malloc entry there - to say, MALLOC. (ld -r is how you >> prelink.) > Unfortunately, the symbol exists in a shlib, so it must use the same > symbol name as the library since sometimes the shlib exists, and other > times it doesn't. :( I don't know much about ELF, but what about instead of renaming malloc on the prelink, duplicating it in the table as malloc and nate_old_malloc, and making malloc weak? Would this be feasable? Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 13:34:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19035 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:34:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19026 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:34:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA05306; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:37:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:37:07 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Nik Clayton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:59:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > [ Creating /etc/rc.d, populating with scripts to start/stop system > daemons, tweaking /etc/rc* to use these scripts instead ] > > > What are people's thoughts on doing the same thing to the base system? > > Well, the silence has been deafening. I've had three positive comments > by private mail, no negative comments by private mail, and nothing on > the list at all. Not even a "Take one step down that road and we > *will* kill your firstborn". Is everyone asleep? > > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. > >From what i've seen 90% of these scripts wind up being broken replacements for 'killall', that would stink. If they become something like: kill `cat /...../prog.pid` that would be interesting and potentially useful. although killall is usually easier to type than /etc/init.d/ kill -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 14:01:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23133 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:01:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23117; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:01:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA28976; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:00:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:00:34 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199811172200.OAA28976@apollo.backplane.com> To: Mikael Karpberg Cc: wam@sa.fedex.com (William McVey), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? References: <199811172058.VAA02065@ocean.campus.luth.se> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Umm... I have seen no one in this discussion mention this, so I'll say it, :after repeating what someone DID say "Small well audited setuid programs :are not a problem". Now... Here's my suggestion, my_xlock.c: : :int main() { : char *str; : FILE *f; : int done = 0; : lock_screen(); : while (!done) { : str = wait_for_passwd(); : f = popen("/usr/bin/check_pw", "w"); : fprintf(f, "%d %s\n", getuid(), str); : fflush(f); : if (!pclose(f)) { : unlock_screen(); : done = 1; : } else { : print_errror("Wrong password"); : } : } : return 0; :} : :Seems simple enough to me, and could be used from scripts and everything. You didn't clear the environment you didn't reset the path you didn't reset the resource limits you didn't disable signals you are using popen (even with an absolute path), :... : *str = '\0'; : pw = getpwnam(buffer); : } : str++; : setting = get_setting_and_move_str(&str); : if (strcmp(pw->pw_passwd, crypt(str, setting)) == 0) : return 0; : return 1; :} And you haven't cleared the memory space associated with either the crypted or unencrypted password info you just retrieved. :I'm sure there are minor or even major mistakes in the programs above, but :I think everyone should get the idea, if the problems are just syntax errors, :and such. The check_pw program should be small enough to be quite possible to :do as close to 100% bug free as one can hope to get. Now, I know I'm being unfair. I'm just trying to point out that there are a LOT of things an suid program must do to be reasonably secure, especially if it is going to go off and execute another program. -Matt : /Mikael : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 14:04:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23718 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:04:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23534; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:03:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA26969; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:02:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:02:18 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Mikael Karpberg cc: William McVey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? In-Reply-To: <199811172058.VAA02065@ocean.campus.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > According to William McVey: > > I'm in favor of the proposed change to allow some group (for discussion > > sake, lets call it group 'shadow') read permission to the shadow file. > > Umm... I have seen no one in this discussion mention this, so I'll say it, > after repeating what someone DID say "Small well audited setuid programs > are not a problem". Now... Here's my suggestion, my_xlock.c: > > int main() { > char *str; > FILE *f; > int done = 0; > lock_screen(); /* XXXXXX */ > while (!done) { > str = wait_for_passwd(); /* XXXXXX */ > f = popen("/usr/bin/check_pw", "w"); > fprintf(f, "%d %s\n", getuid(), str); > fflush(f); > if (!pclose(f)) { > unlock_screen(); /* XXXXXX */ > done = 1; > } else { > print_errror("Wrong password"); > } > } > return 0; > } With the use of Xlib and Xwindows, the seemingly innocuous lines above go through quite a bit of work. > Seems simple enough to me, and could be used from scripts and everything. > All you need is a small util (/usr/bin/check_pw) that is setuid root. > I can't see a security problem with this, at all. Failed logins could > be logged also, if that's a concern. All it has to do is something like: > > int main() { > char buffer[100]; > struct passwd *pw; > uind_t uid; > char *str; > char *setting; > fgets(buffer, sizeof buffer, stdin); > if (isdigit(buffer[0])) { > uid = strtol(buffer, &str, 0); > if (!*str) > exit(1); > pw = getpwuid(uid); > } else { > while (!isspace(*str)) > str++; > if (!*str) > exit(1); > *str = '\0'; > pw = getpwnam(buffer); > } > str++; > setting = get_setting_and_move_str(&str); > if (strcmp(pw->pw_passwd, crypt(str, setting)) == 0) > return 0; > return 1; > } > > I'm sure there are minor or even major mistakes in the programs above, but > I think everyone should get the idea, if the problems are just syntax errors, > and such. The check_pw program should be small enough to be quite possible to > do as close to 100% bug free as one can hope to get. The immediate concerns that come to mind are these -- 1) PAM would be nice, but if not, include some kerberos code :) 2) The trivial-looking 'lock screen', 'get password', etc routines are the hard ones. I've never been pursuaded that the basic Xlib functionality is well audited (I welcome pursuasion :). 3) A check_pw command used as a client by a seperate screen saver program should be at least minimally resistant against key searching attacks. This means possibly adding sleeps, although that is fairly weak all things considering :). Just load up 60 copies of the process. It might be nice to just have a file system socket any process can bind to that mediates access to the authentication system. On the one side of the socket is any client attempting to authenticate a user (possibly using PAM as the API, and then some record based protocol over the socket), and on the other side is Mr Auth Server that listens on the socket, accepts connections, and is a place where throttling of attempts could be performed. Similarly, it could take advantage of the SCM_AUTH (or whatever) uid/gid passing to authenticate the processes on the other side. I wrote something similar to this while playing with kernel tokens a this summer -- a daemon that serviced authentication requests (as well as authorization requests in my case). This could actually be combined with the SCM_RIGHTS behavior to allow processes to request access to ports they otherwise couldn't bind. :) Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 14:09:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24824 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:09:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24790 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:09:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreasd@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (3034@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id XAA28228 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:08:27 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreasd@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:08:27 +0100 (MET) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Accelerated X 4.1 References: <199811161802.MAA01098@furrball.dyn.ml.org> From: Andreas Dobloug Date: 17 Nov 1998 23:08:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: <199811161802.MAA01098@furrball.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG | Earlier today, I had just opened Accelerated X version 4.1, and | then Netscape, but in the process of opening Netscape, the system | rebooted, and upon rebooting, fsck failed. Which version of Netscape were you trying to start? Was it a Linux-version? -- Andreas Dobloug : email: andreasd@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 14:09:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24864 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:09:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24842 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:09:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA29032; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:08:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:08:57 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199811172208.OAA29032@apollo.backplane.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no (Marius Bendiksen), rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model References: <199811171806.LAA03809@usr09.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The only differences between a normal call gate and an interrupt is that an interrupt disables interrupts on call (cli equivalent), while a call gate does not, and a call gate has extra garbage to handle argument copying (which we don't use), while an interrupt does not. There are constructs that make call gates sound like a walk in the park, though... a task gate, for example. What a holy mess. Interrupt gates are definitely faster. -Matt :> I've not looked upon interrupts beyond hardware handling, but I seem to :> recall call gates being preferrable for isolation reasons, but I'm not :> sure, so don't flame me if I'm wrong ;) : :Actually, you can swap the same stuff as a result of an interrupt; :see: : : Protected Mode Software Architecture : Tom Shanley : MindShare, Inc. : ISBN: 0-201-55447-X : : Terry Lambert : terry@lambert.org :--- :Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present :or previous employers. : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 14:11:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25418 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:11:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mx1.dmz.fedex.com (mx1.dmz.fedex.com [199.81.194.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25387; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:11:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wam@mohawk.dpd.fedex.com) Received: from mx2.zmd.fedex.com (sendmail@mx2.zmd.fedex.com [199.82.159.11]) by mx1.dmz.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA15750; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:11:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from s07.sa.fedex.com (root@s07.sa.fedex.com [199.81.124.17]) by mx2.zmd.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21162; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:11:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from mohawk.dpd.fedex.com (mohawk.dpd.fedex.com [199.81.74.121]) by s07.sa.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA09047; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:11:04 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811172211.QAA09047@s07.sa.fedex.com> To: Mikael Karpberg cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:10:32 -0600 From: William McVey Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mikael Karpberg wrote: >Umm... I have seen no one in this discussion mention this, so I'll say it, >after repeating what someone DID say "Small well audited setuid programs >are not a problem". Now... Here's my suggestion, my_xlock.c: > [code for my_xlock.c deleted] >Seems simple enough to me, and could be used from scripts and everything. >All you need is a small util (/usr/bin/check_pw) that is setuid root. I believe this all started with the realization that setuid root shouldn't be needed to verify passwords. A dedicated group could be created for this task which would be limited to only having read access to the shadow file. The proposed group 'shadow', and the associated changes to the getpw* functions (a 3-4 line source code change which I've already sent out to freebsd-security) would eliminate check_pw's need to be setuid root. This would limit the exposure of its buffer overflow(*) to a less harmfull set of privileges. Again, I'm not denying that xlock and friends can be replaced with something more secure. I'm saying that whatever method is used to check passwords for screen locking programs doesn't *NEED* root if the system's getpwnam (and friends) uses the file permissions on /etc/spwd.db as the criteria for access, rather than simply checking "am I root". -- William * The buffer overflow occurs if the input does not contain space characters. I don't think it can be exploited to smash the stack (since the buffer is limited to 100 characters); however, I do know that if this program were setuid root, it could be used to write a null on a piece of memory it shouldn't be able to write on. If the program were setgid to group 'shadow' it wouldn't be able to write on the memory (since that is "privilege" granted only to root). >int main() { > char buffer[100]; > struct passwd *pw; > uind_t uid; > char *str; > char *setting; > fgets(buffer, sizeof buffer, stdin); > if (isdigit(buffer[0])) { > uid = strtol(buffer, &str, 0); > if (!*str) > exit(1); > pw = getpwuid(uid); > } else { > while (!isspace(*str)) > str++; /* Zoom!!! right off the end of the string, if there were no spaces in * the user input (isspace(3) doesn't return true on nulls). */ > if (!*str) > exit(1); > *str = '\0'; /* If I'm root, this would have just scribbled a \0 someplace in memory. * If I'm setgid to group shadow, it would cause a SIGV. Which would * *you* prefer? */ > pw = getpwnam(buffer); > } > str++; > setting = get_setting_and_move_str(&str); > if (strcmp(pw->pw_passwd, crypt(str, setting)) == 0) > return 0; > return 1; >} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 14:22:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27867 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:22:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from furrball.dyn.ml.org (hou3-18.flex.net [207.18.136.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27837 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:22:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@furrball.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from chris@localhost) by furrball.dyn.ml.org (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29498; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:19:16 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chris) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:19:16 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Costello Message-Id: <199811172219.QAA29498@furrball.dyn.ml.org> To: andreasd@ifi.uio.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Accelerated X 4.1 Reply-To: phoenix@calldei.com In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: mail(1) -- the One True(TM) mail client Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Accelerated X 4.1 > From: Andreas Dobloug > Date: 17 Nov 1998 23:08:26 +0100 > > | Earlier today, I had just opened Accelerated X version 4.1, and > | then Netscape, but in the process of opening Netscape, the system > | rebooted, and upon rebooting, fsck failed. > > Which version of Netscape were you trying to start? Was it a > Linux-version? Netscape version 4.06 for Linux, yes. It seems that the Netscape for FreeBSD is not stable enough, so a friend suggested that I run Netscape for Linux. > > -- > Andreas Dobloug : email: andreasd@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 14:35:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29901 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:35:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA29895 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:35:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 836 invoked by uid 1001); 17 Nov 1998 22:35:20 +0000 (GMT) To: phoenix@calldei.com, chris@furrball.dyn.ml.org Cc: andreasd@ifi.uio.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Accelerated X 4.1 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:19:16 -0600 (CST)" References: <199811172219.QAA29498@furrball.dyn.ml.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:35:20 +0100 Message-ID: <834.911342120@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Netscape version 4.06 for Linux, yes. It seems that the Netscape > for FreeBSD is not stable enough, so a friend suggested that I run > Netscape for Linux. One small observation here: 4.06 for FreeBSD was very stable for me under 2.2.7. Under 3.0 stability has gone down the drain. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 14:36:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29979 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:36:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29973 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:36:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from denp@acnet.net) Received: from denpmfe.acnet.net ([170.76.16.29]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:35:52 -0600 X-Sender: denp@mailmtx.acnet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:36:12 -0600 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Ivan Villalobos Subject: Telnetd keepalive question... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <19981117223552.AAA600@mailmtx.acnet.net@denpmfe.acnet.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi guys... I have something that keeps diving me nuts and I still can not find an answer... I have a FreeBSD R30.0 inside a network protected by a firewall. Such firewall is configured to expire TCP sessions after 15 min. of inactivity. When I login to the FreeBSD box, I frequently forget the session and -obviously- the firewall expires (terminate) my session. Neither my Win95 telnet program or the telnetd realize this really soon enough so I have to manually kill the telnetd session. I need to know how to tweak this parameters. As I understand it, I have three options: 1.- Tweak the firewall's TCP timeout. 2.- Tweak FreeBSD's tcp.keepalives. 3.- Tweak telnetd's keepalives. I do not want to go for options 1 & 2 since it would affect not only my session but all my traffic. So I figured that the right thing to do is to tweak telnetd's keepalive. Now, does anybody know what the "1" means in this line?, taken from /usr/src/libexec/telnetd/telnetd.c int keepalive = 1; I also figured this would be the line to mess with, right? Could anyone, please please please shed some light here? Could you please answer (if any) to denp@acnet.net Best Regards... Ivan Villalobos Ashton Communications Corp. NOC McAllen, TX. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 14:41:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00903 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:41:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00897 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:41:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA00720; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:41:14 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma000718; Tue, 17 Nov 98 16:41:04 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost.nectar.com [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA00519; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:41:03 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199811172241.QAA00519@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? To: Nik Clayton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:41:03 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Let's see ... you will be adding complexity. Please specify the payback. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org On 17 November 1998 at 21:01, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:59:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > [ Creating /etc/rc.d, populating with scripts to start/stop system > daemons, tweaking /etc/rc* to use these scripts instead ] > > > What are people's thoughts on doing the same thing to the base system? > > Well, the silence has been deafening. I've had three positive comments > by private mail, no negative comments by private mail, and nothing on > the list at all. Not even a "Take one step down that road and we > *will* kill your firstborn". Is everyone asleep? > > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNlH7fzeRhT8JRySpAQGy8QP/Suc4hGR+vhQKjGAhBhU772hWK+hqiYR4 UFD9GjtM9Cp5/bAGd2WAP4PEDiKfX35a5tQlozoJT/+HOPl/7syHf3iX63CFUdXx GB2LbN0KDiX09zMzVVVBTUtReA1F/otsf6MsRt5EQFr1vII9VllEbbdhYzte6sU9 9x7ZPSWh5JQ= =0Vr7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 14:42:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01000 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:42:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00888 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:41:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (tao.tera.com [207.108.223.55]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21812; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:41:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id OAA27653; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:40:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981117144058.A27582@thought.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:40:58 -0800 From: Gary Kline To: Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 09:01:38PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 09:01:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:59:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > [ Creating /etc/rc.d, populating with scripts to start/stop system > daemons, tweaking /etc/rc* to use these scripts instead ] > > > What are people's thoughts on doing the same thing to the base system? > > Well, the silence has been deafening. I've had three positive comments > by private mail, no negative comments by private mail, and nothing on > the list at all. Not even a "Take one step down that road and we > *will* kill your firstborn". Is everyone asleep? > > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. > I'm surprised to hear this. I'd say go with it. The differences between BSD and the SYSV rc files|directories is one of the most significant differences between the two models. Your ideas would be a win-win. gary -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 14:58:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03762 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:58:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from at.dotat.com (zed.dotat.com [203.38.154.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03744 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:58:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hart@at.dotat.com) Received: from at.dotat.com (localhost.dotat.com [127.0.0.1]) by at.dotat.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18123; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:33:27 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199811172303.JAA18123@at.dotat.com> To: Nik Clayton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:01:38 -0000." <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:33:27 +1030 From: Leigh Hart Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Nik, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:59:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > [ Creating /etc/rc.d, populating with scripts to start/stop system > daemons, tweaking /etc/rc* to use these scripts instead ] > > > What are people's thoughts on doing the same thing to the base system? > > Well, the silence has been deafening. I've had three positive comments > by private mail, no negative comments by private mail, and nothing on > the list at all. Not even a "Take one step down that road and we > *will* kill your firstborn". Is everyone asleep? Nah, I just wasn't sure if you were the real Nik :-) *ducks for cover* > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. I think its a great idea. Cheers Leigh -- | "By the time they had diminished | Leigh Hart, | | from 50 to 8, the other dwarves | Dotat Communications Pty Ltd | | began to suspect 'Hungry' ..." | GPO Box 487 Adelaide SA 5001 | | -- Gary Larson, "The Far Side" | http://www.dotat.com/hart/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 15:02:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04371 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:02:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from at.dotat.com (zed.dotat.com [203.38.154.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04362 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:02:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hart@at.dotat.com) Received: from at.dotat.com (localhost.dotat.com [127.0.0.1]) by at.dotat.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18179; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:37:40 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199811172307.JAA18179@at.dotat.com> To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:37:07 CDT." Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:37:40 +1030 From: Leigh Hart Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Alfred, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Nik Clayton wrote: > > > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:59:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > > [ Creating /etc/rc.d, populating with scripts to start/stop system > > daemons, tweaking /etc/rc* to use these scripts instead ] > > > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. > > From what i've seen 90% of these scripts wind up being broken > replacements for 'killall', that would stink. Agreed. > If they become something like: > kill `cat /...../prog.pid` > > that would be interesting and potentially useful. Indeed - nothing worse than killing the wrong program. > although killall is usually easier to type than > /etc/init.d/ kill And far more dangerous on a production system - and Nik - can I suggest you also implement the scripts as start|restart|stop rather than just start|stop as far as arguments go! Cheers Leigh -- | "By the time they had diminished | Leigh Hart, | | from 50 to 8, the other dwarves | Dotat Communications Pty Ltd | | began to suspect 'Hungry' ..." | GPO Box 487 Adelaide SA 5001 | | -- Gary Larson, "The Far Side" | http://www.dotat.com/hart/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 15:08:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05655 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:08:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05636; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:08:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA02553; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:06:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from karpen) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199811172306.AAA02553@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? In-Reply-To: <199811172200.OAA28976@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Nov 17, 98 02:00:34 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:06:37 +0100 (CET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Matthew Dillon: > :Umm... I have seen no one in this discussion mention this, so I'll say it, > :after repeating what someone DID say "Small well audited setuid programs > :are not a problem". Now... Here's my suggestion, my_xlock.c: > : > :int main() { > : char *str; > : FILE *f; > : int done = 0; > : lock_screen(); > : while (!done) { > : str = wait_for_passwd(); > : f = popen("/usr/bin/check_pw", "w"); > : fprintf(f, "%d %s\n", getuid(), str); > : fflush(f); > : if (!pclose(f)) { > : unlock_screen(); > : done = 1; > : } else { > : print_errror("Wrong password"); > : } > : } > : return 0; > :} > : > :Seems simple enough to me, and could be used from scripts and everything. > :All you need is a small util (/usr/bin/check_pw) that is setuid root. According to William McVey: > I believe this all started with the realization that setuid root > shouldn't be needed to verify passwords. A dedicated group could > be created for this task which would be limited to only having read > access to the shadow file. Yes, check_pw can just as well be setgid shadow. The point is, check_pw would be very small (well under 100 lines, I'd guess), and should then be possible to make secure enough to run as setuid root. it also starts and stops pretty fast, doesn't dump core, and otherwise behaves nasty to people who want to exploit it. According to Matthew Dillon: > You didn't clear the environment > you didn't reset the path > you didn't reset the resource limits > you didn't disable signals > you are using popen (even with an absolute path), Why do I need to? I'm not setuid anything to lock the screen. That's why I need to call check_pw, which is setuid, to check my password. And what's wrong with popen() even if I was? According to Matthew Dillon: > :... > : *str = '\0'; > : pw = getpwnam(buffer); > : } > : str++; > : setting = get_setting_and_move_str(&str); > : if (strcmp(pw->pw_passwd, crypt(str, setting)) == 0) > : return 0; > : return 1; > :} > > And you haven't cleared the memory space associated with > either the crypted or unencrypted password info you > just retrieved. True, but it was meant as something more of a pseudo code, not as a bullet- proof "please commit this"-code. That's just one of many things that must be added, ofcourse. According to Matthew Dillon: > :I'm sure there are minor or even major mistakes in the programs above, but > :I think everyone should get the idea, if the problems are just syntax errors, > :and such. The check_pw program should be small enough to be quite possible to > :do as close to 100% bug free as one can hope to get. > > Now, I know I'm being unfair. I'm just trying to point out that > there are a LOT of things an suid program must do to be reasonably > secure, especially if it is going to go off and execute another > program. The check_pw program which is setuid is not executing another program. And as it's SOLE purpose is to check a password and return true or false, it should be quite possible to make it as close to 100% bug free as is possible. According to William McVey: > > while (!isspace(*str)) > > str++; > > /* Zoom!!! right off the end of the string, if there were no spaces in > * the user input (isspace(3) doesn't return true on nulls). > */ Again... I didn't write that piece of code as a suggested code, but more like a well-written pseudo-code. I think this might have been a mistake. I should have used less correct c-code. According to William McVey: > > if (!*str) > > exit(1); > > *str = '\0'; > > /* If I'm root, this would have just scribbled a \0 someplace in memory. > * If I'm setgid to group shadow, it would cause a SIGV. Which would > * *you* prefer? > */ I think you missunderstood something seriously. The process will SEGV no matter if it's run by root. Root is just like any user, until he does a system call that requires authentication. /Mikael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 15:16:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07038 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:16:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07003; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:16:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA02572; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:14:14 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from karpen) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199811172314.AAA02572@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? In-Reply-To: from Robert Watson at "Nov 17, 98 05:02:18 pm" To: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:14:14 +0100 (CET) Cc: wam@sa.fedex.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Robert Watson: > > int main() { > > char *str; > > FILE *f; > > int done = 0; > > lock_screen(); /* XXXXXX */ > > while (!done) { > > str = wait_for_passwd(); /* XXXXXX */ > > f = popen("/usr/bin/check_pw", "w"); > > fprintf(f, "%d %s\n", getuid(), str); > > fflush(f); > > if (!pclose(f)) { > > unlock_screen(); /* XXXXXX */ > > done = 1; > > } else { > > print_errror("Wrong password"); > > } > > } > > return 0; > > } > > With the use of Xlib and Xwindows, the seemingly innocuous lines above go > through quite a bit of work. Yes, but this program is not a setuid program, and can be basically as incorrect as it wants. The one problem I can think of above is that the password of the user is in the buffer, but then again... the process is run as the user, and will dump core as the user. Or? > The immediate concerns that come to mind are these -- > > 1) PAM would be nice, but if not, include some kerberos code :) Sure, whatever... > 2) The trivial-looking 'lock screen', 'get password', etc routines are the > hard ones. I've never been pursuaded that the basic Xlib functionality is > well audited (I welcome pursuasion :). Ofcourse they are the hard ones, but they are unimportant for the discussion. > 3) A check_pw command used as a client by a seperate screen saver program > should be at least minimally resistant against key searching attacks. > This means possibly adding sleeps, although that is fairly weak all things > considering :). Just load up 60 copies of the process. If check_pw logs all failed logins, that's soon going to be noticed. :-) > It might be nice to just have a file system socket any process can bind to > that mediates access to the authentication system. On the one side of the > socket is any client attempting to authenticate a user (possibly using PAM > as the API, and then some record based protocol over the socket), and on > the other side is Mr Auth Server that listens on the socket, accepts > connections, and is a place where throttling of attempts could be > performed. Similarly, it could take advantage of the SCM_AUTH (or > whatever) uid/gid passing to authenticate the processes on the other side. That's basically the same idea, I guess... you talk over a socket intead of a pipe... it's close to the same thing, at least. /Mikael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 15:23:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08286 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:23:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m2-7-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08272 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:23:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA13545; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:22:16 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199811172322.BAA13545@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> from Nik Clayton at "Nov 17, 98 09:01:38 pm" To: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (Nik Clayton) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:22:13 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:59:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > [ Creating /etc/rc.d, populating with scripts to start/stop system > daemons, tweaking /etc/rc* to use these scripts instead ] > > > What are people's thoughts on doing the same thing to the base system? > > Well, the silence has been deafening. I've had three positive comments > by private mail, no negative comments by private mail, and nothing on > the list at all. Not even a "Take one step down that road and we > *will* kill your firstborn". Is everyone asleep? On account of COMDEX and a few other things, a number of folks are mostly absent from the lists at the moment; so you might want to give this a bit more time. Also, a number of developers no longer subscribe to -hackers, and asking on the -current list may elicit a broader range of responses. > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 16:00:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14519 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:00:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14349 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:00:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08844; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:55:27 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981117235527.33295@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:55:27 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Robert Nordier , Nik Clayton Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <199811172322.BAA13545@ceia.nordier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199811172322.BAA13545@ceia.nordier.com>; from Robert Nordier on Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 01:22:13AM +0200 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 01:22:13AM +0200, Robert Nordier wrote: > On account of COMDEX and a few other things, a number of folks are > mostly absent from the lists at the moment; so you might want to > give this a bit more time. Fair enough. I'll hang fire until after the weekend then. I should have patches for people to test before then though. > Also, a number of developers no longer > subscribe to -hackers, and asking on the -current list may elicit > a broader range of responses. Thanks. I've forwarded my original message on to -current. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 16:47:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23323 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:47:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mx2.dmz.fedex.com (mx2.dmz.fedex.com [199.81.194.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23293; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:46:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wam@mohawk.dpd.fedex.com) Received: from mx2.zmd.fedex.com (sendmail@mx2.zmd.fedex.com [199.82.159.11]) by mx2.dmz.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA00739; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:46:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from s07.sa.fedex.com (root@s07.sa.fedex.com [199.81.124.17]) by mx2.zmd.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA05958; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:46:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from mohawk.dpd.fedex.com (mohawk.dpd.fedex.com [199.81.74.121]) by s07.sa.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA23057; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:46:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811180046.SAA23057@s07.sa.fedex.com> To: Mikael Karpberg cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:45:47 -0600 From: William McVey Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mikael Karpberg wrote: >Yes, check_pw can just as well be setgid shadow. The point is, check_pw >would be very small (well under 100 lines, I'd guess), Agreed. >and should then be possible to make secure enough to run as setuid root. Even if the program is made "secure", I still think it would be assigned an excess of privilege if made setuid root. Again, I'm trying to stay focused on the original suggestion of a new group with read access to the password files and the proposed changes to the getpwent code to base access to the shadowed passwords on file permissions rather than "am I root or not root". >And what's wrong with popen() even if I was? popen (at least historically) passes down environment variables (such as IFS and LD_LIBRARY_PATH) which can cause a program popen()ed by a setuid program (or setgid program for that matter) to run code the author perhaps didn't expect. >Again... I didn't write that piece of code as a suggested code, but more >like a well-written pseudo-code. I think this might have been a mistake. >I should have used less correct c-code. I replied pointing out the bug simply to show that even simple (and apparently correct) programs can have mistakes in them, and to demonstrate what I've been trying to convince people of. A new group for programs like xlock or check_pw to be setgid to would be better than requiring these programs to be setuid root. I'm somewhat new on the security list. What does it take to get changes decided on? Does something like this need 'general consensus and running code' (ala IETF), is something like this voted on, or does someone just go out and do it once they get convinced? >I think you missunderstood something seriously. The process will SEGV >no matter if it's run by root. Root is just like any user, until he >does a system call that requires authentication. Yup. I was mistaken about the scribbling in memory without SEGVing. -- William To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 16:58:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24778 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:58:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24771 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:58:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA29611; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:57:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:57:00 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199811180057.QAA29611@apollo.backplane.com> To: Gary Kline Cc: Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117144058.A27582@thought.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 09:01:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: :> On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:59:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: :> [ Creating /etc/rc.d, populating with scripts to start/stop system :> daemons, tweaking /etc/rc* to use these scripts instead ] :> :> > What are people's thoughts on doing the same thing to the base system? :> :> Well, the silence has been deafening. I've had three positive comments :> by private mail, no negative comments by private mail, and nothing on :> the list at all. Not even a "Take one step down that road and we :> *will* kill your firstborn". Is everyone asleep? :> :> If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, :> and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. :> : : I'm surprised to hear this. I'd say go with it. The : differences between BSD and the SYSV rc files|directories : is one of the most significant differences between the two : models. : : Your ideas would be a win-win. : : gary : : :-- : Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix : : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message This would be a pretty involved project. I'm not sure of the merits. /usr/local/etc/rc.d is already supported, though not in the same way sysv works. Currently /etc/rc is monolithic, but it also only deals with rc.conf related things and has both the /etc/rc.local, /etc/rc.conf.local, and /usr/local/etc/rc.d extensions. I'm not sure how beneficial it would be to migrate /etc/rc to a sysV style startup interface. I've used both, and I actually kinda like the FreeBSD interface better... it concentrates on startup and doesn't try to get fancy. SysV startup interfaces tend to start to fail when you start customizing your configuration. I've never found them to be useful. -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 17:00:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24626 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:56:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA24615 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:56:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <56926(5)>; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:56:08 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177534>; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:56:01 -0800 To: Ivan Villalobos cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Telnetd keepalive question... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Nov 98 14:36:12 PST." <98Nov17.143623pst."59316"@klute.parc.xerox.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:55:53 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <98Nov17.165601pst.177534@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The keepalive only triggers after the connection has been idle for (net.inet.tcp.keepidle / 2) seconds; by default this is 2 hours. You could set net.inet.tcp.keepidle to something a little smaller than 1800, which unfortunately causes the change system-wide. There is no current way to set keepidle for an individual connection. Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 17:53:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00480 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:53:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhub.ainet.com (mailhub.ainet.com [204.30.40.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00475; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:53:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmscott@ainet.com) Received: from shell.ainet.com (jmscott@shell.ainet.com [204.30.40.108]) by mailhub.ainet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA10841; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:52:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by shell.ainet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04116; for freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 17 Nov 98 17:54:29 PST Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:54:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Scott" To: Robert Watson Cc: Mikael Karpberg , William McVey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It might be nice to just have a file system socket any process can bind to > that mediates access to the authentication system. On the one side of the > socket is any client attempting to authenticate a user (possibly using PAM > as the API, and then some record based protocol over the socket), and on > the other side is Mr Auth Server that listens on the socket, accepts > connections, and is a place where throttling of attempts could be > performed. Similarly, it could take advantage of the SCM_AUTH (or > whatever) uid/gid passing to authenticate the processes on the other side. > > > Robert N Watson > Correct me if I'm wrong but this sounds similar to the way that radius works. The backend logging of radius would need to be changed, but I wouldn't think that to be too much of a problem. Joseph Scott jmscott@ainet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 18:11:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02749 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02744 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:11:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05901; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:17:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd005878; Tue Nov 17 12:17:16 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA06638; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:17:09 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811171917.MAA06638@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: More questions on DEVFS To: bf20761@binghamton.edu (zhihuizhang) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:17:09 +0000 (GMT) Cc: archie@whistle.com, julian@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "zhihuizhang" at Nov 13, 98 04:37:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > After thinking for quite a while, I still have two confusions: > > (1) I read the source code of chroot() in file vfs_syscalls.c. It takes a > path and change the fd_rdir (root directory) of the calling process. How > can the superuser process change the root directory of any other process? By modifying the value of the current processes file descriptor table's idea of fd_rdir: struct filedesc *fdp; fdp = cnp->cn_proc->p_fd; /* * Get starting point for the translation. */ if ((ndp->ni_rootdir = fdp->fd_rdir) == NULL) ndp->ni_rootdir = rootvnode; ...in other words, the current processes idea of the root directory. > (2) By saying "put devices in there..", I guess it means that the > superuser mount the special device at some directory under the new root. > If we set up root directories for several processes, then we may need to > mount a certain device used by these processes several times. DEVFS can > be mounted multiple times to achieve this. However, multiple mounts of > a normal file system are NOT allowed. Am I right? You could union the FS's into the new space, with a number of minor modifications to the VFS code. But in general, the new space is on an already mounted FS, so you wouldn't really want to do this anyway. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 18:14:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03045 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:14:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03040 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:14:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20252; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:14:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd020183; Tue Nov 17 19:13:54 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA21491; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:13:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811180213.TAA21491@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:13:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no, rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811172208.OAA29032@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Nov 17, 98 02:08:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The only differences between a normal call gate and an > interrupt is that an interrupt disables interrupts on call > (cli equivalent), while a call gate does not, and a > call gate has extra garbage to handle argument copying > (which we don't use), while an interrupt does not. > > There are constructs that make call gates sound like a > walk in the park, though... a task gate, for example. > What a holy mess. > > Interrupt gates are definitely faster. But as SEF notes, a call gate gan go to any address in any ring, but an Interrupt can't, so using an interrupt makes for slower emulation. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 18:54:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06499 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:54:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06494 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:54:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA00416; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:53:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:53:40 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199811180253.SAA00416@apollo.backplane.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no, rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model References: <199811180213.TAA21491@usr01.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :> The only differences between a normal call gate and an :> interrupt is that an interrupt disables interrupts on call :> (cli equivalent), while a call gate does not, and a :> call gate has extra garbage to handle argument copying :> (which we don't use), while an interrupt does not. :> :> There are constructs that make call gates sound like a :> walk in the park, though... a task gate, for example. :> What a holy mess. :> :> Interrupt gates are definitely faster. : :But as SEF notes, a call gate gan go to any address in any ring, :but an Interrupt can't, so using an interrupt makes for slower :emulation. : : Terry Lambert : terry@lambert.org Slower emulation of what? Not only is the intel ring change mechanism badly designed and, in my view, badly broken, leaving only ring 0 and ring 3 truely useable, but I believe call gates are also much more heavily microcoded then interrupt gates. It's both faster and more portable to put the sys call number in a register, run through an interrupt gate, and have the interrupt procedure dispatch the call then it is to try to dispatch the call directly with a callgate. Furthermore, FreeBSD and most other UNIXes have to do things before and after the syscall which are best handled in one emminently cacheable piece of code, making the call gate's functionality worthless. Most modern processors have a limited number of supervisor entry points precisely because it is more efficient to fan-out after the switch to super then it is to try to fan-out using the switch to super. -Matt :--- :Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present :or previous employers. : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 18:56:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06942 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:56:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06935 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA01313; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:55:32 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma001311; Tue, 17 Nov 98 20:55:29 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost.nectar.com [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA01561; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:55:29 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199811180255.UAA01561@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-Exmh-Isig-CompType: repl X-Exmh-Isig-Folder: inbox X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <19981117235348.41074@nothing-going-on.org> References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <199811172241.QAA00519@spawn.nectar.com> <19981117235348.41074@nothing-going-on.org> Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? To: Nik Clayton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:55:29 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- These are good points, so I hope you don't mind me copying them back to -hackers where my original message was posted. On 17 November 1998 at 23:53, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 04:41:03PM -0600, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > > Let's see ... you will be adding complexity. Please specify > > the payback. > > 1. When killing system daemons (i.e., inetd, sendmail, named, lpd, and > so on) no need to try and find the right PID, playing with ps, grep, > and friends. This is a win when explaining the process to someone > newer to Unix than most members of this list, particularly because > the process is the same each time. They don't (yet!) need or want to > understand what the script is doing, that can come later. It also > makes documentation simpler. Unless the user is from a System V world, this will be no simpler than using ``killall''. > 2. No wondering whether or not there's a lock file lying around that's > been forgotten. Start up scripts in ${PREFIX}/etc/rc.d should take care of this for ports. What lock files are you concerned about in the base system? > 3. Makes updating /etc simpler after a 'make world'. If each script > starts with something like > > if [ -x /usr/local/etc/rc.d/`basename $0` ]; then > exec /usr/local/etc/rc.d/`basename $0` $* > fi > > then you could completely replace sendmail (which would be started > from smtp.sh) by creating a /usr/local/etc/rc.d/smtp.sh script. One > less thing to worry about. I don't understand your point here. If you want to use something other than sendmail, just set sendmail_enable="NO" in rc.conf. > 4. Those that like run levels/run states (I'm not one of them) could > make their own init and other bits and pieces and make it available > as a port. Who cares? If they want ``their own init and other bits and pieces,'' there isn't anything to stop them from doing this today. Maybe I again don't get your point. > This would involve the removal of some knobs from /etc/rc.conf. For > example, "named_enable" would remain, but "named_flags" would be part > of /etc/rc.d/domain.sh (I think naming these scripts after the service > the daemon provides, rather than the name of the daemon itself, is a > win -- the same protocol might be implemented by a variety of differently > named daemons). > > This is not strictly necessary of course. There's no reason that > /etc/rc.d/domain.sh couldn't suck in rc.conf and look for a named_flags > variable. > > Again, at the moment, I'm only thinking of daemons. I'm not touching > things like ifconfig commands, or console maps, or anything like that. I don't see anything broken with the current setup. I much prefer it to System V-like model that you are proposing. If you really believe in this model, I'd suggest making a ``sysvadmin port'' that does what you want. I don't see a lot of users upgrading to FreeBSD 3.0.1 or what have you and being pleased that they now are lost because of a gratuitous change. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNlI3ITeRhT8JRySpAQF9bwP/Q1Th5HGJUNli/DX01FXVViIoY5Fekkzj aeSFaDzPglY/0HX8Qc/4nASX6euM0izrVJ7bTFDdFZvW12V2D1AcDW0qt6Y6J+7P 6ChSum8lkRINrvEcC0ByBGOJqIRlx5aQ9XXxNl+pJcaC6QOZZih/oiGdNTMirnBf 2yderajQC2U= =vKFm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 19:10:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07936 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:10:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stage1.thirdage.com (stage1.ThirdAge.com [204.74.82.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07931 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:10:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jal@ThirdAge.com) Received: from gigi (gigi.ThirdAge.com [204.74.82.169]) by stage1.thirdage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA10925; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:04:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981117190738.00b04bd0@204.74.82.151> X-Sender: jal@204.74.82.151 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:07:38 -0800 To: Jacques Vidrine , Nik Clayton From: Jamie Lawrence Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811180255.UAA01561@spawn.nectar.com> References: <19981117235348.41074@nothing-going-on.org> <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <199811172241.QAA00519@spawn.nectar.com> <19981117235348.41074@nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:55 PM 11/17/98 -0600, Jacques Vidrine wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >These are good points, so I hope you don't mind me copying them back >to -hackers where my original message was posted. > >On 17 November 1998 at 23:53, Nik Clayton wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 04:41:03PM -0600, Jacques Vidrine wrote: >> > Let's see ... you will be adding complexity. Please specify >> > the payback. >> >> 1. When killing system daemons (i.e., inetd, sendmail, named, lpd, and >> so on) no need to try and find the right PID, playing with ps, grep, >> and friends. This is a win when explaining the process to someone >> newer to Unix than most members of this list, particularly because >> the process is the same each time. They don't (yet!) need or want to >> understand what the script is doing, that can come later. It also >> makes documentation simpler. > >Unless the user is from a System V world, this will be no simpler >than using ``killall''. I believe that mistakenly using killall on a System V machine after learning the ropes on BSD is an admin rite of passage, and I'd hate to help save anyone from that experience, but that's beside the point... I think the big win here is a common framework for handling what can become highly complex daemon start/stop procedures. One that I've ended up doing is database daemons. Example: you want to kill msql for whatever reason. It serves some fast CGIs that in turn provide functionality to web users at large. A stop procedure for this daemon involves killing the fcgis, killing the DB daemon, moving a "service unavailable" page into the docroot (or some other mechanism for end user notification), and possibly other tasks. Right now, everyone who builds a script for this does it differently. With a rc.d framework, this sort of problem becomes much more standardized, as admins will tend to build them into that framework. I think the real tradeoff is between homegrown complexity that often is under documented and homegrown complexity that at least follow conventions that are easy to follow. This is one of the few places I actually prefer Solaris to FreeBSD (run state madness notwithstanding). My coupla pfinnig. -j To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 19:42:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10658 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:42:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com ([207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10579 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:41:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (tao.tera.com [207.108.223.55]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28972; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id TAA29464; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:38:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981117193824.A29415@thought.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:38:24 -0800 From: Gary Kline To: Jamie Lawrence , Jacques Vidrine , Nik Clayton Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981117235348.41074@nothing-going-on.org> <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <199811172241.QAA00519@spawn.nectar.com> <19981117235348.41074@nothing-going-on.org> <199811180255.UAA01561@spawn.nectar.com> <3.0.5.32.19981117190738.00b04bd0@204.74.82.151> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981117190738.00b04bd0@204.74.82.151>; from Jamie Lawrence on Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 07:07:38PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think the big win here is a common framework for handling what can > become highly complex daemon start/stop procedures. One that I've > ended up doing is database daemons. Example: you want to kill msql > for whatever reason. It serves some fast CGIs that in turn provide > functionality to web users at large. A stop procedure for this daemon > involves killing the fcgis, killing the DB daemon, moving a "service > unavailable" page into the docroot (or some other mechanism for end > user notification), and possibly other tasks. Right now, everyone who > builds a script for this does it differently. With a rc.d framework, > this sort of problem becomes much more standardized, as admins will > tend to build them into that framework. > > I think the real tradeoff is between homegrown complexity that > often is under documented and homegrown complexity that at least > follow conventions that are easy to follow. > > This is one of the few places I actually prefer Solaris to FreeBSD > (run state madness notwithstanding). > The commonality is the major win, I think. Either the BSD world moves to the SysV model, or Sun and SCO and AIX and Linux should adopt our model. If _we_ do it at least it will be done correctly, by wizard hackers. gary -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 20:59:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:59:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17657 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA19978; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:58:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA25364; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:58:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:58:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811180458.UAA25364@vashon.polstra.com> To: kaleb@ics.com Subject: Re: First Impression of 3.0-RELEASE Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <36519613.52DA940@ics.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <36519613.52DA940@ics.com>, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > I'll start by saying that the upgrade/install went flawlessly and kudos > for that. I'm also happy that FreeBSD is finally using ELF. Glad to hear it! > But there are a few flies in the ELF ointment I've noticed while working > on the X11 Sample Implementation: > > First, the ELF ld.so.cache. I've noticed somewhere else that NetBSD > (their Alpha FAQ maybe?) acknowledges the correctness of using the > RUNPATH in each program rather than having a global ld.so.cache; thus > there's no ld.so.cache on NetBSD. Linux's continued use of the same > ld.so.cache for both a.out and ELF is plenty bad, but their old loader > never had support for a runpath, so in a way it's sort of justifiable > that they still have it. But given that FreeBSD has had runpaths in > a.out (broken as it is/was) for a long time now I think it's time > FreeBSD dumped this archaic piece of cruft. Aw, jeeze, where were you a few months ago? People left and right were SCREAMING for an ELF ldconfig, and I was about the only guy arguing against it. Finally I got sick of arguing and implemented the damned thing. Go back to the archives of -current if you want a taste of that debacle. It was not a fun time. > Two, ldd works on ELF programs but not on ELF libraries? This is just > strange. I suppose I can always ship my libraries over to an SVR4 or > Linux system in order to {ldd,dump,odump} them. Are you sure it really worked on libraries under SVR4? Every implementation of ldd that I've ever seen just set a magic environment variable for the dynamic linker and then "executed" the program. I.e., I've never seen one that would work for shared libraries standing alone. > Third, transitive linking doesn't work. I.e if I link libXt with -lSM > -lICE, and then link a program with -lXt, I get unresolved externals for > libSM and libICE. Should I? The program does not make any calls to libSM > or libICE, so I don't think I should. I don't think you should either. This is supposed to work, and it does work at least in simple tests. If you can put together a reasonable test case for me, I'll be happy to look at it, and fix it if it's a bug. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 21:19:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19086 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:19:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19081 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:18:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA171262; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:19:26 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199811180255.UAA01561@spawn.nectar.com> References: <19981117235348.41074@nothing-going-on.org> <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <199811172241.QAA00519@spawn.nectar.com> <19981117235348.41074@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:18:37 -0500 To: Jacques Vidrine , Nik Clayton From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 8:55 PM -0600 11/17/98, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > These are good points, so I hope you don't mind me copying them > back to -hackers where my original message was posted. I think we should decide to discuss the issue here, or on current, but not on both lists. We're going to get too confused here, particularly if the two discussions are *not* cross-posted, and thus each mailing list is seeing a different debate. >On 17 November 1998 at 23:53, > Nik Clayton wrote: >> >> 1. When killing system daemons (i.e., inetd, sendmail, named, lpd, and >> so on) no need to try and find the right PID, playing with ps, grep, >> and friends. This is a win when explaining the process to someone >> newer to Unix than most members of this list, particularly because >> the process is the same each time. They don't (yet!) need or want to >> understand what the script is doing, that can come later. It also >> makes documentation simpler. > > Unless the user is from a System V world, this will be no simpler > than using ``killall''. It is simplier than "killall", because the same general method will be used for all daemons/services. Sure, 'killall' is simple when that is the correct thing to do, but for some things (such as, say, CAP), a killall is *not* the best thing to do. > I don't see anything broken with the current setup. I much prefer > it to System V-like model that you are proposing. Off the top of my head I would say that I like the idea, but not enough to put a lot of effort into making it happen. If someone else is willing to put in the effort, then I (as just one vote) have no major objections to it. I do work with both aix and solaris, and thus I maybe more comfortable with doing things this way. > If you really believe in this model, I'd suggest making a > ``sysvadmin port'' that does what you want. That is less attractive to me. It means you still have to document (and update) both startup methods, thus guaranteeing that it will be more work (now and forevermore). This is the worst alternative, in my opinion. > I don't see a lot of users upgrading to FreeBSD 3.0.1 or what have > you and being pleased that they now are lost because of a gratuitous > change. What changes are average (*) users going to be "lost" in? They don't do the startup by hand, so in that sense it's just as easy to have separate files as it is to have one common file. The killall question? Well, if killall works before doing this, then killall will still work after doing this. No one is going to break their fingers if they keep using killall to stop some service. They just now have a common way to stopother services, if they don't happen to know what killall command to type for a given service. (*) = here, "average" is defined as being someone who does not go thru and do a lot of their *own* customizations to the rc scripts, and thus they don't much care how the thing is organized just as long as it works. I expect I can think up some reasons against making this change, but the ones you've presented are not very convincing to me. It wouldn't surprise me if this topic has been debated before, and if there are some other more convincing reasons not to do it, but for now I have no objections to the idea. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 21:49:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21106 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:49:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21101 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:48:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA01549; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:47:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:47:26 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Gary Kline cc: Jamie Lawrence , Jacques Vidrine , Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: <19981117193824.A29415@thought.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gary Kline wrote: > > I think the big win here is a common framework for handling what can > > become highly complex daemon start/stop procedures. One that I've > > ended up doing is database daemons. Example: you want to kill msql > > for whatever reason. It serves some fast CGIs that in turn provide > > functionality to web users at large. A stop procedure for this daemon > > involves killing the fcgis, killing the DB daemon, moving a "service > > unavailable" page into the docroot (or some other mechanism for end > > user notification), and possibly other tasks. Right now, everyone who > > builds a script for this does it differently. With a rc.d framework, > > this sort of problem becomes much more standardized, as admins will > > tend to build them into that framework. > > > > I think the real tradeoff is between homegrown complexity that > > often is under documented and homegrown complexity that at least > > follow conventions that are easy to follow. I don't see where the above would ever be anything but a homegrown script. If you want fancy do-it-all scripts, go for it. This is exactly why I dislike start/stop scripts. Most of them lump several realted but independent processes together. > > This is one of the few places I actually prefer Solaris to FreeBSD > > (run state madness notwithstanding). Well, take a look at HP-UX's start/stop and init levels. It actually works much better and is more orthogonal than Solaris. I find it rather messy and I had to rewrite scripts because Solaris doesn't honor the #! at the beginning of the scripts. > The commonality is the major win, I think. Either the BSD > world moves to the SysV model, or Sun and SCO and AIX and > Linux should adopt our model. By all means, let them come. I just double checked and on out AIX boxes (4.2) I can not find hide nor hair of a start/stop script. There are, however, a nice familiar set of rc.whatver scripts. If AIX had start/stop in the past they seem to have gotten rid of it. While I don't maintain out AIX boxes, I don't think the poeple who do rewote AIX's init. Most vendors that have start/stop scripts don't do a good job at it. The ratsnest of sym/hard links is ridiculous and finding where a start/stop script is run from is annoying. Now, consider the following. Total lines in FreeBSD-2.2.6 /etc/rc.* 320 rc 153 rc.conf 155 rc.conf.previous 176 rc.firewall 116 rc.i386 24 rc.local 261 rc.network 15 rc.pccard 127 rc.serial 1347 total Total lines in IRIX 6.5's /etc/{b,}rc* and init.d scripts: 92 brc 51 rc0 86 rc2 30 rc3 .... 66 init.d/videod 44 init.d/webface 33 init.d/xdm 4873 total I think it would be fair to say the number of lines of rc-code would be substantially larger under FreeBSD if converted to start/stop scripts. The brevity and flexability is one of the current BSD rc files. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 22:03:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22003 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:03:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA21998 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:03:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA01575; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:02:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:02:24 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Garance A Drosihn cc: Jacques Vidrine , Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > I don't see a lot of users upgrading to FreeBSD 3.0.1 or what have > > you and being pleased that they now are lost because of a gratuitous > > change. > > What changes are average (*) users going to be "lost" in? Right, it is immaterial to the average user. The people who would suffer the most from such a change would be the people who do know the system like the back of their hand. > but the ones you've presented are not very convincing to me. It > wouldn't surprise me if this topic has been debated before, and > if there are some other more convincing reasons not to do it, It has. There are. Search the mail archives. It comes up every year or so. And every year it gets plowed under. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 17 23:07:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25978 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:07:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA25968 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:07:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 5507 invoked by uid 1001); 18 Nov 1998 07:07:24 +0000 (GMT) To: jdp@polstra.com Cc: kaleb@ics.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First Impression of 3.0-RELEASE In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:58:31 -0800 (PST)" References: <199811180458.UAA25364@vashon.polstra.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:07:24 +0100 Message-ID: <5505.911372844@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Two, ldd works on ELF programs but not on ELF libraries? This is just > > strange. I suppose I can always ship my libraries over to an SVR4 or > > Linux system in order to {ldd,dump,odump} them. > > Are you sure it really worked on libraries under SVR4? Every > implementation of ldd that I've ever seen just set a magic environment > variable for the dynamic linker and then "executed" the program. > I.e., I've never seen one that would work for shared libraries > standing alone. Solaris 2.5.1: % ldd libkrb.so libdl.so.1 => /usr/lib/libdl.so.1 libc.so.1 => /usr/lib/libc.so.1 Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 00:13:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00634 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:13:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00615; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:13:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00871; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:12:44 +0100 (CET) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25327; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:12:43 +0100 (CET) From: Cejka Rudolf Message-Id: <199811180812.JAA25327@kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> Subject: Re: Is it soup yet? FreeBSD NFS In-Reply-To: <199811171622.RAA10676@rt2.synx.com> from Remy Nonnenmacher at "Nov 17, 98 05:17:46 pm" To: remy@synx.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:12:42 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (CC: hackers) > On 13 Nov, Cejka Rudolf wrote: > > > > We have long-time problems (not critical) with NFS server running > > on FreeBSD 2.2.6/2.2.7/3.0 against Solaris 2.5/2.6 clients there. > > > > Our problem: > > > > FreeBSD: NFS server without any special parameters. > > Solaris: NFS client without any special parameters. > > > > Example - working on Solaris above mounted filesystem from FreeBSD: > > > > $ gzcat less-332.tar.gz | tar xvf - # This creates 74 files in > > # directory less-332 > > $ rm -r less-332 # This _leaves_ 43 files! > > rm: Unable to remove directory less-332: File exists > > $ rm -r less-332 # This _still leaves_ 15 files! > > rm: Unable to remove directory less-332: File exists > > $ rm -r less-332 # Uff, directory is removed now... > > > > I think, problem is in different versions (NFSv2 vs. NFSv3) - but it > > looks very trivial (?). If I mount NFS exported filesystem (exports > > FreeBSD) on Solaris with option "vers=2" (it says "use NFSv2"), > > problems disappear. But we are using cachefs (cached filesystem) over > > NFS with automounting feature and we have no change to say "cachefs, > > mount NFS filesystem with 'vers=2' option". There isn't any parameter > > for this on Solaris... > > I have an open problem on this (pr5890). Look at it and try the > suggested fix. The machine where it is applied runs NFS serving for now > 7 month and no problems appeared (clients: Solaris, aix, sco, hpux). > > No need to say that this needs a competent blessing....(re-read the BSD > license before trying it :). > > RN. Yes. It looks it is the problem. Thanks. I have tried to debug mentioned code. Source code is: if (!error && toff && verf && verf != at.va_filerev) error = NFSERR_BAD_COOKIE; And in case of "rm -r less-332" values for example are: error: 0 toff: 5c:02:00:00:00:00:00:00 (memory dump) verf: c7:a4:7c:5a:5b:00:00:00 (memory dump) at.va_filerev: e6:a4:7c:5a:5b:00:00:00 (memory dump) In every next "rm -r less-332" try value in at.va_filerev goes into verf and at.va_filerev contains new unknown value. So is this bug on Solaris side? (Or FreeBSD?) Is there any possible workaround without disabling COOKIE tests? Thanks. --=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=-- Rudolf Cejka (cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz; http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~cejkar) Technical University of Brno, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 00:43:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04002 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:43:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rt2.synx.com (tech.boostworks.com [194.167.81.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03980; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:43:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@synx.com) Received: from synx.com (rn.synx.com [192.1.1.241]) by rt2.synx.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA12651; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:47:53 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199811180847.JAA12651@rt2.synx.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:42:51 +0100 (CET) From: Remy Nonnenmacher Reply-To: remy@synx.com Subject: Re: Is it soup yet? FreeBSD NFS To: cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811180812.JAA25327@kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18 Nov, Cejka Rudolf wrote: > > (CC: hackers) > >> On 13 Nov, Cejka Rudolf wrote: >> > >> > We have long-time problems (not critical) with NFS server running >> > on FreeBSD 2.2.6/2.2.7/3.0 against Solaris 2.5/2.6 clients there. >> > >> > Our problem: >> > >> > FreeBSD: NFS server without any special parameters. >> > Solaris: NFS client without any special parameters. >> > >> > Example - working on Solaris above mounted filesystem from FreeBSD: >> > >> > $ gzcat less-332.tar.gz | tar xvf - # This creates 74 files in >> > # directory less-332 >> > $ rm -r less-332 # This _leaves_ 43 files! >> > rm: Unable to remove directory less-332: File exists >> > $ rm -r less-332 # This _still leaves_ 15 files! >> > rm: Unable to remove directory less-332: File exists >> > $ rm -r less-332 # Uff, directory is removed now... >> > >> > I think, problem is in different versions (NFSv2 vs. NFSv3) - but it >> > looks very trivial (?). If I mount NFS exported filesystem (exports >> > FreeBSD) on Solaris with option "vers=2" (it says "use NFSv2"), >> > problems disappear. But we are using cachefs (cached filesystem) over >> > NFS with automounting feature and we have no change to say "cachefs, >> > mount NFS filesystem with 'vers=2' option". There isn't any parameter >> > for this on Solaris... >> >> I have an open problem on this (pr5890). Look at it and try the >> suggested fix. The machine where it is applied runs NFS serving for now >> 7 month and no problems appeared (clients: Solaris, aix, sco, hpux). >> >> No need to say that this needs a competent blessing....(re-read the BSD >> license before trying it :). >> >> RN. > > Yes. It looks it is the problem. Thanks. > > I have tried to debug mentioned code. Source code is: > > if (!error && toff && verf && verf != at.va_filerev) > error = NFSERR_BAD_COOKIE; > > And in case of "rm -r less-332" values for example are: > error: 0 > toff: 5c:02:00:00:00:00:00:00 (memory dump) > verf: c7:a4:7c:5a:5b:00:00:00 (memory dump) > at.va_filerev: e6:a4:7c:5a:5b:00:00:00 (memory dump) > In every next "rm -r less-332" try value in at.va_filerev goes into verf > and at.va_filerev contains new unknown value. So is this bug on > Solaris side? (Or FreeBSD?) Is there any possible workaround without > disabling COOKIE tests? > > Thanks. > > --=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=-- > Rudolf Cejka (cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz; http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~cejkar) > Technical University of Brno, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science > Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic It clearly requires a NFS' god blessing. My view of it is that the cookie identifying a directory changes after a few operations (maybe after releasing a block of free entries. May be checked by removing files in reverse scanning order ?) but client continue to use the old cookie. Reading NFS specs would say if server is wrong in changing the cookie or is the client is wrong to use an old one. I'm not competent enought to go further. "peter" at -bugs is in charge of it and, considering the NFS complexity, I assume the problem is not simple. RN. ItM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 01:15:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA06626 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:15:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA06614 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:14:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id KAA16394; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:11:05 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:11:03 +0100 (MET) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Gary Kline cc: Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: <19981117144058.A27582@thought.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > daemons, tweaking /etc/rc* to use these scripts instead ] > > > > > What are people's thoughts on doing the same thing to the base system? > I'm surprised to hear this. I'd say go with it. The > differences between BSD and the SYSV rc files|directories > is one of the most significant differences between the two > models. > > Your ideas would be a win-win. More strongly if the template looks like: case in stop) killall proggie ;; *) startall proggie ;; esac instead of the way Solaris does, where {start|stop} is _required_. Nick -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 01:53:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA09972 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:53:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA09966 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:53:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA09381; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:54:24 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:54:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First Impression of 3.0-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <36519613.52DA940@ics.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > Two, ldd works on ELF programs but not on ELF libraries? This is just > strange. I suppose I can always ship my libraries over to an SVR4 or > Linux system in order to {ldd,dump,odump} them. I know, I can always > step up to the task of fixing it, or writing odump, myself. I'll get > right on it after I've finished all the other stuff I'm working on. > Really. Any day now. :-) Try using 'objdump -p libfoo.so'. This will tell you all kinds of useful stuff about the lib, including its list of dependancies. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 03:14:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18622 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:14:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA18617 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:14:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id KBNAKNAJ; Wed, 18 Nov 98 11:13:46 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981118121341.00975ac0@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:13:41 +0100 To: Matthew Dillon , Terry Lambert From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model Cc: rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811172208.OAA29032@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199811171806.LAA03809@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The only differences between a normal call gate and an > interrupt is that an interrupt disables interrupts on call > (cli equivalent), while a call gate does not, and a Ehrm. Allow me to note that, unless I'm way off mark here, there is a difference between an interrupt gate and a trap gate. One of these does indeed disable interrupts; the other does not. I believe it is the trap gate which does not. > call gate has extra garbage to handle argument copying > (which we don't use), while an interrupt does not. The part about argument copying yields an extra layer of isolation, by giving you the ability to stick everything on a completely different stack. > There are constructs that make call gates sound like a > walk in the park, though... a task gate, for example. > What a holy mess. I doubt the divinities played a hand in the creation of *that* particular mechanism. > Interrupt gates are definitely faster. Okay. I seemed to recall it being the other way around. Obtw; are they only faster upon entry, or do they return quicker, too? --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 03:15:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18722 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:15:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA18713 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:15:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id KBNAQOHJ; Wed, 18 Nov 98 11:14:46 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981118121441.009818d0@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:14:41 +0100 To: Terry Lambert , dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811180213.TAA21491@usr01.primenet.com> References: <199811172208.OAA29032@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >But as SEF notes, a call gate gan go to any address in any ring, >but an Interrupt can't, so using an interrupt makes for slower >emulation. We can point an interrupt to a call gate and achieve this effect, can't we? --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 03:48:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA22203 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:48:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA22196 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:48:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from kaleb.keithley.belmont.ma.us (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id GAA03991 Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:48:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3652C70E.41C67EA6@ics.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:09:34 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First Impression of 3.0-RELEASE References: <199811180458.UAA25364@vashon.polstra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra wrote: > > > > First, the ELF ld.so.cache. > > Aw, jeeze, where were you a few months ago? I did post something about it -- here in hackers tho'. I guess it got lost in the noise. > People left and right > were SCREAMING for an ELF ldconfig, Why do they want it? Don't they understand that the RPATH is a per-program ld.so.cache? > and I was about the only guy > arguing against it. Finally I got sick of arguing and implemented the > damned thing. Go back to the archives of -current if you want a taste > of that debacle. It was not a fun time. I can imagine. > > > Two, ldd works on ELF programs but not on ELF libraries? This is just > > strange. I suppose I can always ship my libraries over to an SVR4 or > > Linux system in order to {ldd,dump,odump} them. > > Are you sure it really worked on libraries under SVR4? Steiner Haug just posted the proof, so I won't do it again. > > Transitive linking doesn't work ... > > I don't think you should either. This is supposed to work, and > it does work at least in simple tests. If you can put together a > reasonable test case for me, I'll be happy to look at it, and fix it > if it's a bug. My bad. The X11 SI does link programs with all the libraries. And someone else pointed out that programs that use libpng have to link with zlib on all the SVR4en. Must have been wishful thinking on my part. I withdraw this suggestion. -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 03:54:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA22780 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:54:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA22769 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:54:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from kaleb.keithley.belmont.ma.us (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id GAA04192 Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:53:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3652C862.167EB0E7@ics.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:15:15 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First Impression of 3.0-RELEASE References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Rabson wrote: > > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > Two, ldd works on ELF programs but not on ELF libraries? This is just > > strange. I suppose I can always ship my libraries over to an SVR4 or > > Linux system in order to {ldd,dump,odump} them. I know, I can always > > step up to the task of fixing it, or writing odump, myself. I'll get > > right on it after I've finished all the other stuff I'm working on. > > Really. Any day now. :-) > > Try using 'objdump -p libfoo.so'. This will tell you all kinds of useful > stuff about the lib, including its list of dependancies. > Aha. Good. Thank you. objdump, odump, dump trace, ptrace, ktrace, truss, par etc., etc., etc. :-) -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 04:52:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA29997 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:52:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA29980; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:52:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from kaleb.keithley.belmont.ma.us (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id HAA08022; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:52:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3652D623.446B9B3D@ics.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:13:55 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: de0 ethernet driver -- another puzzle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm confused (as usual). I bought a Linksys EtherPCI LAN Card II after checking the Handbook to see if it was supported. The Handbook say this NIC is based on the DEC DC21xxx. The Handbook and the LINT kernel config say to use de0 for DEC DC21xxx NICs. So I configured a new kernel with the de0 device, built, installed, rebooted ---- and nada. No probe, no nothing. The kernel config created /usr/src/sys/compile/mumble/de.h, which contains "#define NDE 1"; but I grepped over the entire kernel source for "de.h" and NDE, and found not a single occurance of either. I grepped the FAQ and the Handbook for more, but found nothing. Where is the support for this device? This is on 3.0-RELEASE (x86). (I subscribe to hackers, not questions, so if the question is answered in questions, please either cc hackers or me directly, whichever is more appropriate. Thanks.) Thanks in advance. -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 05:33:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA03582 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:33:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA03567 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:33:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA11925; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:32:46 -0500 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:32:45 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Nik Clayton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:59:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > [ Creating /etc/rc.d, populating with scripts to start/stop system > daemons, tweaking /etc/rc* to use these scripts instead ] > > > What are people's thoughts on doing the same thing to the base system? > > Well, the silence has been deafening. I've had three positive comments > by private mail, no negative comments by private mail, and nothing on > the list at all. Not even a "Take one step down that road and we > *will* kill your firstborn". Is everyone asleep? > > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. Without runlevels, or states as terry would prefer, the scripts are still only one way, and don't offer a clean way to shut down the system. You may not like this, but Oracle does, and is really happy when it gets to close all transactions, flush waiting comits, and dismount the database before init kills it off. The SysV method is also pretty standardised, with many people familiar with the why's and how's. Being able to set the order by name and number is also a nice feature. Don't go making yet another startup process, and further removing FreeBSD from what is already a highly nonstandard standard. Jamie Bowden -- Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 05:36:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04278 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:36:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from at.dotat.com (zed.dotat.com [203.38.154.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA04242 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:36:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hart@at.dotat.com) Received: from at.dotat.com (localhost.dotat.com [127.0.0.1]) by at.dotat.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20136 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:11:56 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199811181341.AAA20136@at.dotat.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:47:26 CDT." Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:11:56 +1030 From: Leigh Hart Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Adrian, ADRIAN Filipi-Martin wrote: > > Most vendors that have start/stop scripts don't do a good job at > it. Certainly that's no reason for FreeBSD not to consider doing it, after all, it is a vastly superior product considering the price, surely we can organise a set of scripts to work properly, no? > The ratsnest of sym/hard links is ridiculous and finding where a > start/stop script is run from is annoying. Nik didn't suggest using rcX.d run level based scripts (init doesn't support them anyway), and even if it was suggested, any good admin shouldn't have any trouble finding the original script, as it should be in rc.d or init.d, depending on your variant - the run level scripts should be the sym/hard link, not the other way around. > Now, consider the following. > > Total lines in FreeBSD-2.2.6 /etc/rc.* > 1347 total > > Total lines in IRIX 6.5's /etc/{b,}rc* and init.d scripts: > 4873 total > > I think it would be fair to say the number of lines of rc-code > would be substantially larger under FreeBSD if converted to > start/stop scripts. The brevity and flexability is one of the > current BSD rc files. IRIX 6.5's init.d scripts are huge not because of useful content, but because of copyright and documentation bloat. That, and the "chkconfig" and other "parameter" setting tools, makes IRIX 6.5's scripts huge, again, something Nik wasn't proposing. Cheers Leigh -- | "By the time they had diminished | Leigh Hart, | | from 50 to 8, the other dwarves | Dotat Communications Pty Ltd | | began to suspect 'Hungry' ..." | GPO Box 487 Adelaide SA 5001 | | -- Gary Larson, "The Far Side" | http://www.dotat.com/hart/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 05:40:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:40:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from teel.info-noire.com (XP11-1-2-08.interlinx.qc.ca [207.253.79.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA04657 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:40:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@gel.usherb.ca) Received: from localhost (alex@localhost) by teel.info-noire.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA13097 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:45:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from alex@teel.info-noire.com) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:45:25 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Boisvert Reply-To: boia01@gel.usherb.ca To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NE2000 specifications Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello hackers, Does anybody know where I can find information about NE2000 cards? I'm looking for technical specifications for the NE2000 "standard". Something like a standard document or a detailed spec. sheet. I've already looked in the code /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/if_ed.c but that's not "litterate" enough for me to understand how the thing works overall. This is for a school project, BTW. Regards, Alex. PS: Don't forget a URL ;-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 05:47:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA05386 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:47:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA05362 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:46:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA23108; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:47:31 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199811181147.MAA23108@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: NE2000 specifications To: boia01@gel.usherb.ca Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:47:31 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alex Boisvert" at Nov 18, 98 08:45:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hello hackers, > > Does anybody know where I can find information about NE2000 cards? I'm > looking for technical specifications for the NE2000 "standard". Something > like a standard document or a detailed spec. sheet. i think national semiconductors has a web site with the specs of a NE2000-type of controller. Search for this file: -rw-r--r-- 1 luigi wheel 871801 Jun 16 1997 DP83902A.pdf cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 07:05:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA16476 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:05:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lynx.gts.elcom.ru (lynx.gts.elcom.ru [193.232.231.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA16471 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:05:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pavel@lynx.gts.elcom.ru) Received: (from pavel@localhost) by lynx.gts.elcom.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA00268 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:04:38 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from pavel) From: Pavel Geraskin Message-Id: <199811181504.SAA00268@lynx.gts.elcom.ru> Subject: problem using AccelePort 8r-PCI HELP! To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:04:38 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear colleague! There's a problem which I haven't solved yet. We need to install AccelePort 8r-PCI, which configuring our custom kernel. The only thing which I've found was drivers & instructions for Digiboard PC/Xe and PC/Xi which are ISA adapters. Can you help me in this question? I'll be very thankful! Pavel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 07:20:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18183 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:20:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18176 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:20:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA218062330; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:18:50 -0500 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:18:50 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Jamie Lawrence Cc: Jacques Vidrine , Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981117190738.00b04bd0@204.74.82.151> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Jamie Lawrence wrote: > I think the big win here is a common framework for handling what can > become highly complex daemon start/stop procedures. One that I've > ended up doing is database daemons. Example: you want to kill msql > for whatever reason. It serves some fast CGIs that in turn provide > functionality to web users at large. A stop procedure for this daemon > involves killing the fcgis, killing the DB daemon, moving a "service > unavailable" page into the docroot (or some other mechanism for end > user notification), and possibly other tasks. Right now, everyone who > builds a script for this does it differently. With a rc.d framework, > this sort of problem becomes much more standardized, as admins will > tend to build them into that framework. I think this is the best 'what makes it different from killall' argument. Often times while explaining to co-workers how to shut something down properly is it difficult to explain how to do such things. Sure, I could write some scripts (I have) but if the framework puts these style files in the same place, the opportunity for an HP/UX SAM type program and other such admin tools becomes much easier to write. Not that I'm a fan of 'do-all gui' programs, but common framework helps programming logic a ton. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 07:37:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20127 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:37:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA20122 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:37:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost by echonyc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA26216; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:34:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:34:00 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Gary Kline cc: Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: <19981117144058.A27582@thought.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gary Kline wrote: > I'm surprised to hear this. I'd say go with it. The > differences between BSD and the SYSV rc files|directories > is one of the most significant differences between the two > models. > > Your ideas would be a win-win. I agree strongly. Sometimes sending something a signal is not all that needs to be done to kill it cleanly. A mechanism for glue logic can be valuable. I have just recently started adminning Solaris, after a couple of years only using various BSDs, and the start and stop scripts are one of my favorite features. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 08:41:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28543 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:41:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nygate.undp.org (nygate.undp.org [192.124.42.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28363 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:41:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ugen@undp.org) Received: from inet01.hq.undp.org (inet01.hq.undp.org [192.124.42.9]) by nygate.undp.org (8.9.1/8.9.1/1.13) with ESMTP id LAA09444 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:41:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from undp.org ([165.65.2.224]) by inet01.hq.undp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA47D7 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:38:14 -0500 Message-ID: <3652F7D2.9B5CB321@undp.org> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:37:38 -0500 From: "Ugen Antsilevitch" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Hardware question and mailing list question. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well...sorry for sending this here but for some reason my message to hardware@FreeBSD.org didn't get through. 1) I can't seem to be able to check my subscribed mailing lists. I subscribed myself as ugen@freebsd.org but sending to Majordomo "which ugen@freebsd.org" or even "which ugen" brings nothing. I do get messages for some lists and i remember subscribing to hardware list but i can't really check things. I presume i can't unsubscribe either. 2) Well..i was going to send this to hardware discussion but "hackers" is the one actually working so here goes: I have this Dell Optiplex machine with dual(?) PCI bus. I run 3.0 release on it for about a week now (and by the way ot is great). I have a SCSI adapter, 2 ethernet cards and videocard all on the PCI. For whatever reason they all get mapped to the same IRQ 14. I read somwhere that mapping all PCI devices to the same IRQ works but slows down the machine. So: a) Does it slow down the machine indeed? b) If it does, how do i map them to different IRQ's ? The Dell bios is very rudimentary and there are no options for PCI mapping in there? Thanx! --Ugen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 09:17:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02700 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:17:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alive.znep.com (207-178-54-226.go2net.com [207.178.54.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02691 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:16:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22861; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:13:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:13:29 -0800 (PST) From: Marc Slemko To: Jacques Vidrine cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: <199811180255.UAA01561@spawn.nectar.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > These are good points, so I hope you don't mind me copying them back > to -hackers where my original message was posted. > > On 17 November 1998 at 23:53, Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 04:41:03PM -0600, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > > > Let's see ... you will be adding complexity. Please specify > > > the payback. > > > > 1. When killing system daemons (i.e., inetd, sendmail, named, lpd, and > > so on) no need to try and find the right PID, playing with ps, grep, > > and friends. This is a win when explaining the process to someone > > newer to Unix than most members of this list, particularly because > > the process is the same each time. They don't (yet!) need or want to > > understand what the script is doing, that can come later. It also > > makes documentation simpler. > > Unless the user is from a System V world, this will be no simpler > than using ``killall''. killall is NEVER the right way to kill daemons under normal circumstances. Getting in the habit of using it as part of normal procedure is just setting yourself up to be shot in the foot when, for whatever reason, there happen to be other processes that match the name. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 09:53:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09201 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:53:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09183 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:53:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20434; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:49:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:49:59 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: ben@rosengart.com cc: Gary Kline , Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Snob Art Genre wrote: > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gary Kline wrote: > > > I'm surprised to hear this. I'd say go with it. The > > differences between BSD and the SYSV rc files|directories > > is one of the most significant differences between the two > > models. > > > > Your ideas would be a win-win. > > I agree strongly. Sometimes sending something a signal is not all that > needs to be done to kill it cleanly. A mechanism for glue logic can be > valuable. I have just recently started adminning Solaris, after a > couple of years only using various BSDs, and the start and stop scripts > are one of my favorite features. It seems to me that what we ought to be asking for are the hooks, so those of us that *do* like run-levels *can* have them. I don't think we should force everyone to have such a thing, but wouldn't it be possible to have the run levels *without* requiring those that think they are evil to have to implement a changed startup? I'm asking for a system where the legacy rc is there for those who want it (and would probably be installed by default) but a system of run-levels and rc.d type stuff would be feasible. Such a thing could then even be a port. I think such an approach would short-circuit most of the complaints, and let the idea move forward with coding. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 10:28:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15701 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:28:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-atm.tampabay.rr.com (tampabay.rr.com [24.92.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15680 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:28:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spamoff@tampabay.rr.com) Received: from ChaosSolutions.com (dt150n7d.tampabay.rr.com [24.92.196.125]) by mail-atm.tampabay.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.8+RoadRunner) with SMTP id NAA17329 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:27:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from tampabay.rr.com by compaq.chaossolutions with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5f.R) for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:41:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3650FDA1.A5F6ED6A@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:37:53 -0500 From: Martin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06C-Caldera [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de0 ethernet driver -- another puzzle References: <3652D623.446B9B3D@ics.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Return-Path: spamoff@tampabay.rr.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > I'm confused (as usual). > > I bought a Linksys EtherPCI LAN Card II after checking the Handbook to > see if it was supported. Great card...ne2000 clone > > > The Handbook say this NIC is based on the DEC DC21xxx. > > The Handbook and the LINT kernel config say to use de0 for DEC DC21xxx > NICs. > > So I configured a new kernel with the de0 device, built, installed, > rebooted ---- and nada. No probe, no nothing. Make sure the card is set for 0x280 and IRQ=9 using the supplied software. Use a dos boot disk and run 'setup'. Once configure and save FreeBsd will see it. All Linux and BSD probes are very limited. They look in a certain address range, that's why they don't find stuff in different address ranges. > > > The kernel config created /usr/src/sys/compile/mumble/de.h, which > contains "#define NDE 1"; but I grepped over the entire kernel source > for "de.h" and NDE, and found not a single occurance of either. > > I grepped the FAQ and the Handbook for more, but found nothing. Where is > the support for this device? > > This is on 3.0-RELEASE (x86). > > (I subscribe to hackers, not questions, so if the question is answered > in questions, please either cc hackers or me directly, whichever is more > appropriate. Thanks.) > > Thanks in advance. I preset all my cards and they are found O.K. so try it. Let us know how it goes :) Regards...Martin > > > -- > Kaleb > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 10:40:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17386 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:40:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17378 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:40:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (tao.tera.com [207.108.223.55]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09677; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:40:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id KAA04808; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:39:48 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199811181839.KAA04808@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: from Chuck Robey at "Nov 18, 98 12:49:59 pm" To: chuckr@mat.net (Chuck Robey) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:39:48 -0800 (PST) Cc: ben@rosengart.com, kline@thought.org, nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Chuck Robey: > On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Snob Art Genre wrote: > > > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gary Kline wrote: [[ ..... ]] > > > It seems to me that what we ought to be asking for are the hooks, so > those of us that *do* like run-levels *can* have them. I don't think we > should force everyone to have such a thing, but wouldn't it be possible > to have the run levels *without* requiring those that think they are > evil to have to implement a changed startup? > > I'm asking for a system where the legacy rc is there for those who want > it (and would probably be installed by default) but a system of > run-levels and rc.d type stuff would be feasible. Such a thing could > then even be a port. I think such an approach would short-circuit most > of the complaints, and let the idea move forward with coding. > > Whether the new model is a port or an official-part-of-FreeBSD makes little difference. If what Nik proposes it better--if enough people stand up and salute--it will eventually become official. --Well, the Berkeley hardcore aside. I think there is enough support for a trial. And since the highest wizards will be hacking it, it'll be at least better (more solid, bulletproof) than the SYSV code. One gentleman mentioned that this (rc vs. rc.d) discussion comes up about once a year, is mumbled over, and abandoned. Let's not abandon the idea this time around. gary > -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 10:43:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17749 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:43:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17744 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:43:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA06180; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:42:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:42:50 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199811181842.KAA06180@apollo.backplane.com> To: Marius Bendiksen Cc: Terry Lambert , rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model References: <199811171806.LAA03809@usr09.primenet.com> <3.0.5.32.19981118121341.00975ac0@mail.scancall.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> Interrupt gates are definitely faster. : :Okay. I seemed to recall it being the other way around. Obtw; are they only :faster upon entry, or do they return quicker, too? On the 386 and 486, call gates are faster. On the pentium, pentium-PRO, and pentium-II, interrupts are faster. Argument copying is wasteful and has limited use on systems where the supervisor has access to the user mode memory map. FreeBSD (and virtually all other operating systems) uses a two-layer design, not a multi-layer ring design. About the only thing you might see different between OS's is that some processors have a separate 'interrupt stack'. On Intel cpu's, however, the abstraction is useless due to the completely broken ring design because many supervisor instructions only work in ring 0. ring 1 and ring 2 are almost completely useless. -Matt :Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS : Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 10:54:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19150 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:54:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rgate.ricochet.net (rgate1.ricochet.net [204.179.143.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19033 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:53:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: from mg139-159.ricochet.net (mg139-159.ricochet.net [204.179.139.159]) by rgate.ricochet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16547; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:53:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:52:24 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: enkhyl@hayseed.net To: Nik Clayton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:59:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > [ Creating /etc/rc.d, populating with scripts to start/stop system > daemons, tweaking /etc/rc* to use these scripts instead ] > > > What are people's thoughts on doing the same thing to the base system? > > Well, the silence has been deafening. I've had three positive comments > by private mail, no negative comments by private mail, and nothing on > the list at all. Not even a "Take one step down that road and we > *will* kill your firstborn". Is everyone asleep? > > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. FWIW, I think it's a good idea. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 11:05:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20672 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:05:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20655 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:05:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from conrad@apple.com) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25990 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:58:19 -0800 Received: from scv4.apple.com (scv4.apple.com) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com - SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:58:00 -0800 Received: from [17.202.43.185] (wa.apple.com [17.202.43.185]) by scv4.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA35242; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:57:55 -0800 X-Sender: conrad@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199811180812.JAA25327@kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> References: <199811171622.RAA10676@rt2.synx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:57:56 -0800 To: Cejka Rudolf From: Conrad Minshall Subject: Re: Is it soup yet? FreeBSD NFS Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> On 13 Nov, Cejka Rudolf wrote: >> > FreeBSD: NFS server without any special parameters. >> > Solaris: NFS client without any special parameters. >> > >> > Example - working on Solaris above mounted filesystem from FreeBSD: >> > >> > $ gzcat less-332.tar.gz | tar xvf - # This creates 74 files in >> > # directory less-332 >> > $ rm -r less-332 # This _leaves_ 43 files! >> > rm: Unable to remove directory less-332: File exists Do the 43 file names left behind start with ".nfs" or are they the original filenames created by the "tar xvf -"? -- Conrad Minshall ... conrad@apple.com ... 408 974-2749 Apple Computer ... (Mac OS X) Core Operating Systems ... Filesystems & Kernel Note if "conrad@apple.com" doesn't work, try using rad@acm.org. Old picon viewable at: http://facesaver.usenix.org/faces/h/49/4974.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 11:06:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20828 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:06:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20823 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:06:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgasch@microsoft.com) Received: by mail3.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:05:54 -0800 Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD540700D93B@RED-MSG-44> From: Scott Gasch To: "'Kaleb S. KEITHLEY'" Cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: de0 ethernet driver -- another puzzle Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:05:51 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >I bought a Linksys EtherPCI LAN Card II after checking the Handbook to >see if it was supported. > >The Handbook say this NIC is based on the DEC DC21xxx. > Hi Kaleb, I don't recall which Linksys card it was but I bought one of their 10/100 cards about 9 months ago. It was supposed to be DEC chip based -- the handbook said so and the Linksys site agreed. So when it arrived, I found it was based on some other, non-supported chipset. I do not know enough to write a driver and I didn't have time to learn so I called up Linksys and asked what was up with the chipset switch. They said that they had gotten the new chips cheaper and were switching production. They had the older dec chip cards around so I was able to swap mine. I don't know if this is what is up with your card or not, but it's worth a look. Scott To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 12:05:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29038 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:05:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-134.camalott.com [208.229.74.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29019; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:05:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA00898; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:02:11 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Mikael Karpberg Cc: Matthew Dillon , wam@sa.fedex.com (William McVey), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? References: <199811172058.VAA02065@ocean.campus.luth.se> In-reply-to: <199811172058.VAA02065@ocean.campus.luth.se> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 18 Nov 1998 14:02:09 -0600 Message-ID: <86hfvwixby.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 23 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Umm... I have seen no one in this discussion mention this, so I'll > say it, after repeating what someone DID say "Small well audited > setuid programs are not a problem". Now... Here's my suggestion, > my_xlock.c: [snip] > Seems simple enough to me, and could be used from scripts and > everything. Another point is that this could be easily augmented to handle other authentication methods. For example, OTPs, hand scanners, physical keys, etc could all be handled by this one utility instead of having to write it into each and every program that needs a password. (Something keeps popping into my head talking about Kerberos, but I don't know why.) Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 12:19:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01001 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:19:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tnc.com (tnc.com [139.142.36.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00987 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swheeler@tnc.com) Received: from Shannon (fort9.tnc.com [139.142.38.152]) by tnc.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA23576; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:18:32 -0700 (MST) From: "Shannon Wheeler" To: "Ugen Antsilevitch" , Subject: Re: Hardware question and mailing list question. Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:17:57 -0700 Message-ID: <01be1330$87dcb920$0307070a@Shannon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Ugen Antsilevitch To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: November 18, 1998 9:41 AM Subject: Hardware question and mailing list question. >Well...sorry for sending this here but for some reason my message to >hardware@FreeBSD.org didn't get >through. >1) I can't seem to be able to check my subscribed mailing lists. I >subscribed myself as ugen@freebsd.org but your address is: ugen@undp.org not ugen@freebsd.org. *The opinions expressed herein are my own and are not necessarily representative of the policies or opinions of my employer.* Shannon Wheeler Data & Comm. Tech Clearwater Welding & Fabricating Ltd Fort McMurray, AB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 12:43:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03885 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:43:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03880 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:43:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04373; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:28:45 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981118072845.16651@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:28:45 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Matthew Dillon , Gary Kline Cc: Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117144058.A27582@thought.org> <199811180057.QAA29611@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199811180057.QAA29611@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 04:57:00PM -0800 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 04:57:00PM -0800, Matthew Dillon wrote: > Currently /etc/rc is monolithic, but it also only deals > with rc.conf related things and has both the /etc/rc.local, > /etc/rc.conf.local, and /usr/local/etc/rc.d extensions. I'm > not sure how beneficial it would be to migrate /etc/rc to > a sysV style startup interface. All it would be doing is pulling some of the startup code out of /etc/rc* and in to /etc/rc.d/foo.sh. I forgot to list another advantage. If a service requires the starting and stopping of multiple daemons (think NFS for example) then a simple killall (as far as I'm aware) isn't enough -- you need to go through /etc/rc* looking for the daemons that are started, kill them, then restart them in the right order. If you're doing this while testing things, it gets boring quite easily. # sh /etc/rc.d/nfs.sh restart is considerably simpler, and less error prone (assuming, of course, that nfs.sh is written properly. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 13:10:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06986 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:10:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tversu.ru (mail.tversu.ru [62.76.80.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06966; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:10:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vadim@gala.tversu.ru) Received: from gala.tversu.ru (vadim@gala.tversu.ru [62.76.80.10]) by tversu.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01429; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:08:51 +0300 (MSK) Received: (from vadim@localhost) by gala.tversu.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11093; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:09:14 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: <19981119000914.A11045@tversu.ru> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:09:14 +0300 From: Vadim Kolontsov To: Joel Ray Holveck , Mikael Karpberg Cc: Matthew Dillon , William McVey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? References: <199811172058.VAA02065@ocean.campus.luth.se> <86hfvwixby.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <86hfvwixby.fsf@detlev.UUCP>; from Joel Ray Holveck on Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 02:02:09PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 02:02:09PM -0600, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > Another point is that this could be easily augmented to handle other > authentication methods. For example, OTPs, hand scanners, physical > keys, etc could all be handled by this one utility instead of having > to write it into each and every program that needs a password. > (Something keeps popping into my head talking about Kerberos, but I > don't know why.) I wonder how many people would like to see PAM support in FreeBSD?.. Regards, V. -- Vadim Kolontsov Tver Internet Center NOC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 13:11:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07293 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:11:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-107.camalott.com [208.229.74.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06971 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:10:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA01204; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:09:17 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Ivan Villalobos Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnetd keepalive question... References: <19981117223552.AAA600@mailmtx.acnet.net@denpmfe.acnet.net> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 18 Nov 1998 15:09:15 -0600 In-Reply-To: Ivan Villalobos's message of "Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:36:12 -0600" Message-ID: <86g1bgiu84.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 77 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I need to know how to tweak this parameters. As I understand it, I have > three options: > 1.- Tweak the firewall's TCP timeout. > 2.- Tweak FreeBSD's tcp.keepalives. > 3.- Tweak telnetd's keepalives. > I do not want to go for options 1 & 2 since it would affect not only my > session but all my traffic. So I figured that the right thing to do is to > tweak telnetd's keepalive. Why do you want your other TCP traffic to not send keepalives? That would seem to be needed for such a firewall (which is, IMHO, broken anyway). > Now, does anybody know what the "1" means in this line?, taken from > /usr/src/libexec/telnetd/telnetd.c > int keepalive = 1; > I also figured this would be the line to mess with, right? No, this is how you already want things. First off, are you sure that keepalive packets aren't being sent, and just being ignored by your firewall? (If your firewall is 4.2 based, then you may need to turn on TCP_COMPAT_42 in your kernel config to account for a bug in the keepalive handling code.) A tcpdump may or may not show keepalive packets. (The following is based on Nov 8th's -current.) keepalive is on by default [telnetd.c line 134]; telnetd -n will turn it off [307]. The keepalive handling is done by the kernel at telnetd's request [501]. The kernel itself does the keepalive handling, mostly in /sys/inet/tcp_timer.c. A description of the process is in tcp_timer.h line 74. The variables that control keepalive handling are under net.inet.tcp in sysctl, and prefaced with tcp_ in source code. (Note that the timers are initialized in terms of PR_SLOWHZ, which means that they are measured in half second increments. I have written the actual times here.) These are: tcp_keepinit (TCPTV_KEEP_INIT, net.inet.tcp.keepinit) [75s] Time before failing a connection when it is first opened tcp_keepidle (TCPTV_KEEP_IDLE, net.inet.tcp.keepidle) [2hr] Time before probing an idle connection with keepalives tcp_keepintvl (TCPTV_KEEPINTVL, net.inet.tcp.keepintvl) [75s] Time between unacknowledged keepalive probes tcp_keepcnt (TCPTV_KEEPCNT) [8] Number of probes sent before dropping a connection The description in tcp_timer.h mistakenly refers to TCPT_MAXIDLE, which is undefined. The correct variable name is tcp_maxidle, which is initialized to tcp_keepcnt*tcp_keepintvl. Your solution, therefore, appears to be to set tcp_keepidle to 13 minutes (ie, 15 minutes minus TCP's maximum segment lifetime of two minutes). Adding the command sysctl -w tcp.inet.tcp.keepidle=1800 to your /etc/rc.local should do the trick. This will affect the keepalive handling of any socket which has keepalives turned on. Presently, the keepalive timeouts are on a per-system rather than a per-socket basis. Note that sockets that do not turn on keepalives will not be affected. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 13:13:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07467 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:13:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07459; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:13:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA02813; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:13:04 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA03610; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:13:04 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981118221303.28678@follo.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:13:03 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Vadim Kolontsov Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? References: <199811172058.VAA02065@ocean.campus.luth.se> <86hfvwixby.fsf@detlev.UUCP> <19981119000914.A11045@tversu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981119000914.A11045@tversu.ru>; from Vadim Kolontsov on Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 12:09:14AM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Moved followups to -hackers (as that seems most appropriate for this part of the thread). On Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 12:09:14AM +0300, Vadim Kolontsov wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 02:02:09PM -0600, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > > Another point is that this could be easily augmented to handle other > > authentication methods. For example, OTPs, hand scanners, physical > > keys, etc could all be handled by this one utility instead of having > > to write it into each and every program that needs a password. > > (Something keeps popping into my head talking about Kerberos, but I > > don't know why.) > > I wonder how many people would like to see PAM support in FreeBSD?.. Enough that it was committed yesterday (or was that this morning?) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 13:21:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08904 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:21:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08884 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:21:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17081; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:19:20 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981118211919.10512@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:19:19 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=lL+5n6rz5pIUxbDc X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 09:01:38PM +0000 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --lL+5n6rz5pIUxbDc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 09:01:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. Well, that's certainly one way to kick off a discussion. Attached is a quick implementation of what I've been talking about. All it does is provide startup scripts for inetd and an NFS server. This is a minimal implementation, provided for people to kick around. To use these; 1. mkdir /etc/rc.d 2. Copy inetd.sh and nfs_server.sh (attached) to this directory. Make them executable. 3. Edit /etc/rc and change the line that starts inetd to /etc/rc.d/inet.sh start (keep it wrapped in the test for ${inetd_enable} though) 4. Edit /etc/rc.network. Find the block that tests for ${nfs_server_enable} and replace the contents of the block with /etc/rc.d/nfs_server.sh start You can then start playing around. inetd.sh is how I expect most of these scripts to look. There's only one daemon to start, which makes the surrounding code look somewhat extraneous for all it's got to do. Hopefully, nfs_server.sh makes my point a little more clearly. As you can see there are a number of daemons that need to be started and/or stopped for NFS serving. Suppose you've changed the NFS server flags in /etc/rc.conf, and want to test that they work. Currently, you would do this by; - Reading /etc/rc.network to determine what daemons have been started. - Kill them. In some cases killall or kill will be sufficient. In others you need to stop programs in a specific order -- for these programs you have to make sure you know what that order is. - Restart them. Either by typing/cutting-pasting the commands from /etc/rc.network, plugging in the same values as you have put in /etc/rc.conf. Or by crafting together a small shell script to pull in the values from /etc/rc.conf and starting the daemons in this script. - Even now, you're not 100% guaranteed that what you've just done mirrors what will be run the next time the system boots. With this (new) approach, you just # /etc/rc.d/nfs_server restart and watch as it kills the daemons, and restarts them with whatever values you currently have in /etc/rc.conf. It does it consistently, correctly, and will happen the same way when the system boots. To answer some of the points raised by other people; Yes, this will make booting slower, and push up the PID of the first login process run. So what? The slow down is imperceptible, and I would expect it to be on the order of 3 or 4 seconds maximum if this approach is fully adopted (and even then your disks would need to be pretty slow for it to be that drastic). You waste more time than that checking that you've killed all the daemons and restarted them properly, so over time it's probably a net win. Yes, it's different from how things have been done before. So what? It's not change for change's sake, it brings the benefits I've outlined above and in earlier messages which (IMHO) make the change worthwhile. Yes, it will confuse old-hand BSD administrators. So did the introduction of /etc/rc.conf (nee' /etc/sysconfig). Perhaps confuse is the wrong word. It might disorient them slightly, but only briefly. All that's happened is that the content of some of the /rc/rc.* files has been moved out into other files in another directory. init hasn't changed, the order hasn't changed, the mechanism for deciding what order to run things in hasn't changed. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . --lL+5n6rz5pIUxbDc Content-Type: application/x-sh Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="inetd.sh" #!/bin/sh # # Start/stop/restart inetd # # $Id$ # basename=`basename $0` # Allow ourself to be overridden by local changes if [ -x /usr/local/etc/rc.d/${basename} ]; then exec /usr/local/etc/rc.d/${basename} fi # If there is a global configuration file, suck it in if [ -r /etc/rc.conf ]; then . /etc/rc.conf fi # Check for first parameter if [ $1x = x ]; then echo ${basename}: No argument provided exit 1 fi case $1 in start) inetd ${inetd_flags} && echo -n ' inetd' ;; stop) killall inetd ;; restart) $0 stop && $0 start ;; *) echo ${basename}: First argument must be one of start, stop, restart exit 1 ;; esac exit 0 --lL+5n6rz5pIUxbDc Content-Type: application/x-sh Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="nfs_server.sh" #!/bin/sh # # Start/stop/restart nfs servers # # $Id$ # basename=`basename $0` # Allow ourself to be overridden by local changes if [ -x /usr/local/etc/rc.d/${basename} ]; then exec /usr/local/etc/rc.d/${basename} fi # If there is a global configuration file, suck it in if [ -r /etc/rc.conf ]; then . /etc/rc.conf fi # Check for first parameter if [ $1x = x ]; then echo ${basename}: No argument provided exit 1 fi case $1 in start) if [ ! -r /etc/exports ]; then echo ${basename}: /etc/exports not found, aborting exit 1 fi if [ "X${weak_mountd_authentication}" = X"YES" ]; then mountd_flags="-n" fi /sbin/mountd ${mountd_flags} && echo -n ' mountd' if [ "X${nfs_reserved_port_only}" = X"YES" ]; then echo -n ' nfsprivport=YES' sysctl -w vfs.nfs.nfs_privport=1 > /dev/null 2>&1 fi nfsd ${nfs_server_flags} && echo -n ' nfsd' if [ "X${rpc_lockd_enable}" = X"YES" ]; then /usr/sbin/rpc.lockd && echo -n ' rpc.lockd' fi if [ "X${rpc_statd_enable}" = X"YES" ]; then /usr/sbin/rpc.statd && echo -n ' rpc.statd' fi ;; stop) # Need to kill everything started by 'start'. Can't test the # ${*_enable} variables, since they might have changed since # 'start' was run. killall rpc.statd killall rpc.lockd killall nfsd kill `cat /var/run/mountd.pid` ;; restart) $0 stop && $0 start ;; *) echo ${basename}: First argument must be one of start, stop, restart exit 1 ;; esac exit 0 --lL+5n6rz5pIUxbDc-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 13:23:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09179 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:23:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-107.camalott.com [208.229.74.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09171 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:23:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA01331; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:22:44 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: Gary Kline , Jamie Lawrence , Jacques Vidrine , Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 18 Nov 1998 15:22:43 -0600 In-Reply-To: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin's message of "Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:47:26 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: <86emr0itlo.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 59 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't see where the above would ever be anything but a homegrown > script. If you want fancy do-it-all scripts, go for it. This is > exactly why I dislike start/stop scripts. Most of them lump several > realted but independent processes together. But often, multiple processes are needed to shut down a daemon. As this is a common task, then let's lump them together. If you need more granularity, we're not taking away the individual commands. If anything, we're exposing the necessary steps to users not yet familiar with a particular package. To put it another way: you've got touch, wall, and halt; do you still use shutdown? > Well, take a look at HP-UX's start/stop and init levels. It > actually works much better and is more orthogonal than Solaris. I find it > rather messy and I had to rewrite scripts because Solaris doesn't honor > the #! at the beginning of the scripts. Fix /etc/initscr (or whatever it is that runs the scripts; I've forgotten since then). Solaris honors #!, it's just got a broken init system that is likely easily fixed. >> The commonality is the major win, I think. Either the BSD >> world moves to the SysV model, or Sun and SCO and AIX and >> Linux should adopt our model. > By all means, let them come. You know as well as I do that most SVR4-worlders would find /etc/rc a step backwards. That just plain ain't gonna happen. > Most vendors that have start/stop scripts don't do a good job at > it. The ratsnest of sym/hard links is ridiculous and finding where a > start/stop script is run from is annoying. We're not talking about adopting the entire SysV init heirarchy, which is where most of the ratsnest comes from. We're talking about augmenting the existing rc system with a little bit more. > Now, consider the following. > Total lines in FreeBSD-2.2.6 /etc/rc.* > 1347 total > Total lines in IRIX 6.5's /etc/{b,}rc* and init.d scripts: > 4873 total > I think it would be fair to say the number of lines of rc-code > would be substantially larger under FreeBSD if converted to start/stop > scripts. The brevity and flexability is one of the current BSD rc files. Perhaps I should point out that the latter handles both startup and shutdown. The former handles startup only. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 13:24:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09331 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:24:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09324; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:24:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from o2.cs.rpi.edu (root@o2.cs.rpi.edu [128.113.96.156]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11936; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:24:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (crossd@localhost) by o2.cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA02785; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:24:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: o2.cs.rpi.edu: crossd owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:24:03 -0500 From: "David E. Cross" To: Vadim Kolontsov cc: Joel Ray Holveck , Mikael Karpberg , Matthew Dillon , William McVey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? In-Reply-To: <19981119000914.A11045@tversu.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Vadim Kolontsov wrote: > > I wonder how many people would like to see PAM support in FreeBSD?.. *Raises hand* "Me" -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 13:27:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09748 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:27:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nygate.undp.org (nygate.undp.org [192.124.42.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09731 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:27:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ugen@undp.org) Received: from inet01.hq.undp.org (inet01.hq.undp.org [192.124.42.9]) by nygate.undp.org (8.9.1/8.9.1/1.13) with ESMTP id QAA26215 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:26:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from undp.org ([165.65.2.224]) by inet01.hq.undp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4B0F; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:25:22 -0500 Message-ID: <36533B1C.548E8797@undp.org> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:24:44 -0500 From: "Ugen Antsilevitch" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joel Ray Holveck CC: Adrian Filipi-Martin , Gary Kline , Jamie Lawrence , Jacques Vidrine , Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <86emr0itlo.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My 5 cents. 1) Using killall and such is EVIL and should be avoided. (There were some example scripts sent that use this program). 2) Just a suggestion - look into rc.d on any Solaris box. Now i am not offering to steal their code - thats illegal, but anything reasonable should look pretty much like that or not be at all. --Ugen Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > I don't see where the above would ever be anything but a homegrown > > script. If you want fancy do-it-all scripts, go for it. This is > > exactly why I dislike start/stop scripts. Most of them lump several > > realted but independent processes together. > > But often, multiple processes are needed to shut down a daemon. As > this is a common task, then let's lump them together. If you need > more granularity, we're not taking away the individual commands. If > anything, we're exposing the necessary steps to users not yet familiar > with a particular package. > > To put it another way: you've got touch, wall, and halt; do you still > use shutdown? > > > Well, take a look at HP-UX's start/stop and init levels. It > > actually works much better and is more orthogonal than Solaris. I find it > > rather messy and I had to rewrite scripts because Solaris doesn't honor > > the #! at the beginning of the scripts. > > Fix /etc/initscr (or whatever it is that runs the scripts; I've > forgotten since then). Solaris honors #!, it's just got a broken init > system that is likely easily fixed. > > >> The commonality is the major win, I think. Either the BSD > >> world moves to the SysV model, or Sun and SCO and AIX and > >> Linux should adopt our model. > > By all means, let them come. > > You know as well as I do that most SVR4-worlders would find /etc/rc a > step backwards. That just plain ain't gonna happen. > > > Most vendors that have start/stop scripts don't do a good job at > > it. The ratsnest of sym/hard links is ridiculous and finding where a > > start/stop script is run from is annoying. > > We're not talking about adopting the entire SysV init heirarchy, which > is where most of the ratsnest comes from. We're talking about > augmenting the existing rc system with a little bit more. > > > Now, consider the following. > > Total lines in FreeBSD-2.2.6 /etc/rc.* > > 1347 total > > Total lines in IRIX 6.5's /etc/{b,}rc* and init.d scripts: > > 4873 total > > I think it would be fair to say the number of lines of rc-code > > would be substantially larger under FreeBSD if converted to start/stop > > scripts. The brevity and flexability is one of the current BSD rc files. > > Perhaps I should point out that the latter handles both startup and > shutdown. The former handles startup only. > > Happy hacking, > joelh > > -- > Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org > Fourth law of programming: > Anything that can go wrong wi > sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 13:27:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09854 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09849 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:27:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from o2.cs.rpi.edu (root@o2.cs.rpi.edu [128.113.96.156]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12041; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:27:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (crossd@localhost) by o2.cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA02754; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:27:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: o2.cs.rpi.edu: crossd owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:27:26 -0500 From: "David E. Cross" To: Conrad Minshall cc: Cejka Rudolf , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is it soup yet? FreeBSD NFS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Conrad Minshall wrote: > >> On 13 Nov, Cejka Rudolf wrote: > > >> > FreeBSD: NFS server without any special parameters. > >> > Solaris: NFS client without any special parameters. > >> > > >> > Example - working on Solaris above mounted filesystem from FreeBSD: > >> > > >> > $ gzcat less-332.tar.gz | tar xvf - # This creates 74 files in > >> > # directory less-332 > >> > $ rm -r less-332 # This _leaves_ 43 files! > >> > rm: Unable to remove directory less-332: File exists > > Do the 43 file names left behind start with ".nfs" or are they the original > filenames created by the "tar xvf -"? Been there, done that. This happens to me all the time if this is a NFSv3 mount (which is what Solaris will default to). I remember once long ago when we were first doing v3 there where some issues about filehandles for directories, I remember this being one of the side-effects of that problem. I don't remember if that was ever resolved. short term fix: use NFSv2 (mount -o vers=2 freebsd.server:/path /local/path) -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 13:35:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11232 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:35:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-107.camalott.com [208.229.74.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11224; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:35:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA01429; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:34:51 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: William McVey Cc: Mikael Karpberg , dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? References: <199811180046.SAA23057@s07.sa.fedex.com> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 18 Nov 1998 15:34:50 -0600 In-Reply-To: William McVey's message of "Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:45:47 -0600" Message-ID: <86d86kit1h.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 48 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> And what's wrong with popen() even if I was? > popen (at least historically) passes down environment variables (such as > IFS and LD_LIBRARY_PATH) which can cause a program popen()ed by a setuid > program (or setgid program for that matter) to run code the author perhaps > didn't expect. First off, it was designed as a basic something to show the idea, and I recall Mikael making it quite clear that he expected it to be needing work. If we are going to pick at nits, we'd also point out that a) IFS is irrelevant since the program in question would not be calling sh, b) LD_LIBRARY_PATH is irrelevant, since this would need to be in /bin or /sbin and statically linked, c) why the hell pick nits? Let's give him a "good idea go with it" or "bad idea because..." and let the details of implementation be examined later. I'm sure that Mikael would be happy for you to work with him on getting that type of code right. >> Again... I didn't write that piece of code as a suggested code, but >> more like a well-written pseudo-code. I think this might have been >> a mistake. I should have used less correct c-code. > I replied pointing out the bug simply to show that even simple (and > apparently correct) programs can have mistakes in them, and to > demonstrate what I've been trying to convince people of. A new > group for programs like xlock or check_pw to be setgid to would be > better than requiring these programs to be setuid root. Good point. Now, do we see any reason that somebody may be able to get egid shadow privs? (Since egid is frequently not so well controlled as euid privs.) What advantages does the check_pw approach still have, coupled with sgid shadow? I pointed out hardware authentication devices and OTPs earlier; any others? > I'm somewhat new on the security list. What does it take to get > changes decided on? Does something like this need 'general consensus > and running code' (ala IETF), is something like this voted on, or does > someone just go out and do it once they get convinced? In general, most FreeBSD development means get public opinion if it's major (like this), somebody writes a patch, and sends in a pr. Then lobby a committer to merge it. -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 13:45:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12657 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:45:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-107.camalott.com [208.229.74.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12631; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:45:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA01542; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:44:26 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Vadim Kolontsov Cc: Mikael Karpberg , Matthew Dillon , William McVey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? References: <199811172058.VAA02065@ocean.campus.luth.se> <86hfvwixby.fsf@detlev.UUCP> <19981119000914.A11045@tversu.ru> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 18 Nov 1998 15:44:25 -0600 In-Reply-To: Vadim Kolontsov's message of "Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:09:14 +0300" Message-ID: <864srwisli.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Another point is that this could be easily augmented to handle other >> authentication methods. For example, OTPs, hand scanners, physical >> keys, etc could all be handled by this one utility instead of having >> to write it into each and every program that needs a password. >> (Something keeps popping into my head talking about Kerberos, but I >> don't know why.) > I wonder how many people would like to see PAM support in FreeBSD?.. Hmm... Methinks you aren't talking about the cooking spray (although I am working on a kitchen computer... maybe add a few robotics... hmm...) :-) Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 14:16:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17263 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:16:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nygate.undp.org (nygate.undp.org [192.124.42.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17256 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:16:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ugen@undp.org) Received: from inet01.hq.undp.org (inet01.hq.undp.org [192.124.42.9]) by nygate.undp.org (8.9.1/8.9.1/1.13) with ESMTP id RAA28774 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:16:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from undp.org ([165.65.2.224]) by inet01.hq.undp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA5DF3; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:12:27 -0500 Message-ID: <36534626.D6249E00@undp.org> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:11:50 -0500 From: "Ugen Antsilevitch" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shannon Wheeler CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware question and mailing list question. References: <01be1330$87dcb920$0307070a@Shannon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yes, it is ugen@undp.org and also ugen@freebsd.org (incidentally forwarded to ugen@undp.org) and thats how i subscribed to the lists. I guess i need to get ahold of lists admin but i can't remember who is it. --Ugen Shannon Wheeler wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ugen Antsilevitch > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Date: November 18, 1998 9:41 AM > Subject: Hardware question and mailing list question. > > >Well...sorry for sending this here but for some reason my message to > >hardware@FreeBSD.org didn't get > >through. > >1) I can't seem to be able to check my subscribed mailing lists. I > >subscribed myself as ugen@freebsd.org > > but your address is: ugen@undp.org not ugen@freebsd.org. > > *The opinions expressed herein are my own and are not necessarily > representative of the policies or opinions of my employer.* > > Shannon Wheeler > Data & Comm. Tech > Clearwater Welding & Fabricating Ltd > Fort McMurray, AB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 14:35:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:35:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ns1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20420 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:35:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h016b.s86b1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.1.107] (may be forged)) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/BNET-98/09/30-E) with ESMTP id OAA15132; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09801; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:29:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id RAA21703; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:29:12 -0500 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25694; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:29:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199811182229.RAA25694@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM, witr@rwwa.com Subject: AMD/NFS problems with 3.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:29:07 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a problem with NFS/AMD hangs for some filesystems in this large automounted network. (I reported this to questions earlier and got no responses). At first I though this might be related to these messages that went to the log the first time I started amd: noconn option exists, and was turned OFF! (May cause NFS hangs on some systems...) So I tried modifying /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/include/config.h to play with the USE_CONNECTED_NFS_SOCKETS and USE_UNCONNECTED_NFS_SOCKETS. This doesn't seem to have any effect on the problem. What I have noticed is that these problems appear to be related to "deferred" mounts: bash-2.02# amq -s requests stale mount mount unmount deferred fhandles ok failed failed 10 0 176 0 0 bash-2.02# amq -s requests stale mount mount unmount deferred fhandles ok failed failed 12 0 176 0 0 In the code these are referred to as "dropped" mount requests. Can someone tell me what causes these and what I can do to fix this? -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 978 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 15:05:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25089 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:05:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stage1.thirdage.com (stage1.ThirdAge.com [204.74.82.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25084 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:05:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jal@ThirdAge.com) Received: from gigi (gigi.ThirdAge.com [204.74.82.169]) by stage1.thirdage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA01505; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:59:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981118150237.00afac40@204.74.82.151> X-Sender: jal@204.74.82.151 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:02:37 -0800 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin From: Jamie Lawrence Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <19981117193824.A29415@thought.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:47 AM 11/18/98 -0500, ADRIAN Filipi-Martin wrote: >On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gary Kline wrote: >> > I think the real tradeoff is between homegrown complexity that >> > often is under documented and homegrown complexity that at least >> > follow conventions that are easy to follow. > > I don't see where the above would ever be anything but a >homegrown script. If you want fancy do-it-all scripts, go for it. This I don't see where you're disagreeing with me. The point is to add a degree of convention to the process. >is exactly why I dislike start/stop scripts. Most of them lump several >realted but independent processes together. We'll have to agree to disagree then. That's precisely why they're useful. > Now, consider the following. > >Total lines in FreeBSD-2.2.6 /etc/rc.* [...] > 1347 total > >Total lines in IRIX 6.5's /etc/{b,}rc* and init.d scripts: [...] > 4873 total > > I think it would be fair to say the number of lines of rc-code >would be substantially larger under FreeBSD if converted to start/stop >scripts. The brevity and flexability is one of the current BSD rc files. Excuse the curtness, but, so what? Most of those lines of code are 'case foo in bar' lines. Simple stuff. Another win is modularity - introduce an error in your rc.conf now (:wq, anyone?) and you risk a failed startup. Do the same in your S98mysql script and your system comes up fine, modulo the database. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 15:26:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28532 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:26:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28508 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:26:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA04046; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:25:41 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma004042; Wed, 18 Nov 98 17:25:33 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost.nectar.com [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA11250; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:25:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199811182325.RAA11250@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-Exmh-Isig-CompType: repl X-Exmh-Isig-Folder: lists/freebsd X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <000BCF69.C21023@mail.ing.nl> References: <000BCF69.C21023@mail.ing.nl> Subject: Re: kern/8629: accept (2) errno uses incorrect code To: Peter.Mutsaers@mail.ing.nl cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:25:33 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [sending to -hackers to solicit comments regarding PR 8629] On 17 November 1998 at 11:03, Peter.Mutsaers@mail.ing.nl wrote: [regarding operating systems which return EOPNOTSUPP from accept when called with a socket _not_ of type SOCK_STREAM] > Solaris 2.6 and Digital UNIX 4.0 do. I tested my program on them > > Output from a small program doing an accept on socket 69/udp (tftp), using > perror to show the errno value: [summary from Peter's experience and mine: Returns EINVAL Returns EOPNOTSUPP 4.4 BSD Lite2 FreeBSD NetBSD OpenBSD AIX 3.2.5 AIX 4.1 HP-UX 10.20 HP-UX 10.30 Linux 2.1.128 AIX 4.2 Solaris 2.6 Digital UNIX 4.0 ] > Actually I should look it up in the POSIX spec but I don't have one at hand. Yes, if POSIX has something to say about it, then that has to be definitive. > However the number of Unices doing it like the original manpage, and the fact > that AIX 4.1 --> 4.2 > modified it to comply, convinces me that really it should return EOPNOTSUPP. I'm far from convinced. See above. Additionally, the BSD and Linux accept() code is ``correct'' in that checking the type of the socket (and therefore returning EOPNOTSUPP) would be an additional, redundant check. Checking whether or not the socket is in a ``listening state'' is sufficient. So far it seems as if BSD implementations return EINVAL, while System V implementations return EOPNOTSUPP. The Linux implementation is homegrown, but returns EINVAL in this situation for the same reasons the BSD code does. Since the sockets interface is defined by BSD, I expect that BSD is correct, and that the System V vendors got it wrong. I can't blame them, though, since BSD has had the manual page wrong forever. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNlNXbTeRhT8JRySpAQGwrAQAsqrOv4AY6FcphYZIA92g4GjnZtUzHoH9 DEdsWjc2hiN6vj9GvPmlbpfUObk/htLeS7ncBGSZouGkpjx/2Rpv0JjjTh35u1bI VtrEpkQVfcOgc0TWUu52WKeOcb8WExwZ+KPsoYzEIdU6Wz6FEP0c+iT6ri5v+d+w VWCoYVyqdig= =kcSM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 17:51:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20301 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:51:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20296; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:51:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from sunoco (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id UAA07073; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:51:09 -0500 (EST) From: Kaleb Keithley Received: by sunoco (SMI-8.6/Spike-2.1) id UAA29625; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:51:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:51:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199811190151.UAA29625@sunoco> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Linksys NIC, was: Re: de ethernet driver -- another puzzle Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks to hints from Wilco Bulte, Scott Gasch, and Martin ???, plus a few printfs sprinkled liberally about .../pci/if_de.c, I've determined that this particular Linksys EtherPCI LAN Card II that I have wants the ed0 driver, not the de0 driver as the Handbook and FAQ suggest. I also now know why the de probe doesn't print out a message when the probe fails. Which is not to say that I think that's good. On the contrary, I think it's bad. C'est la vie. Anyway, the Handbook and FAQ should be updated. Thanks again for the help. -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 18:14:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22864 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:14:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22835 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:13:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA24912; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:13:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA28103; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:13:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5505.911372844@verdi.nethelp.no> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:13:13 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: sthaug@nethelp.no Subject: Re: First Impression of 3.0-RELEASE Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kaleb@ics.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18-Nov-98 sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: >> > Two, ldd works on ELF programs but not on ELF libraries? This is just >> > strange. I suppose I can always ship my libraries over to an SVR4 or >> > Linux system in order to {ldd,dump,odump} them. >> >> Are you sure it really worked on libraries under SVR4? Every >> implementation of ldd that I've ever seen just set a magic environment >> variable for the dynamic linker and then "executed" the program. >> I.e., I've never seen one that would work for shared libraries >> standing alone. > > Solaris 2.5.1: > > % ldd libkrb.so > libdl.so.1 => /usr/lib/libdl.so.1 > libc.so.1 => /usr/lib/libc.so.1 > OK, I'm a believer now. :-) It might be a good idea to file a P/R on this. That way I'll get weekly nagging reminders to fix it. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 20:35:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06226 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:35:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-114.camalott.com [208.229.74.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06196 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:35:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA03217; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:34:26 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Marius Bendiksen , Terry Lambert , rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model References: <199811171806.LAA03809@usr09.primenet.com> <3.0.5.32.19981118121341.00975ac0@mail.scancall.no> <199811181842.KAA06180@apollo.backplane.com> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 18 Nov 1998 22:34:20 -0600 In-Reply-To: Matthew Dillon's message of "Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:42:50 -0800 (PST)" Message-ID: <86ogq4gv1v.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> FreeBSD (and virtually all other operating systems) uses a >> two-layer design, not a multi-layer ring design. About the only >> thing you might see different between OS's is that some processors >> have a separate 'interrupt stack'. On Intel cpu's, however, the >> abstraction is useless due to the completely broken ring design >> because many supervisor instructions only work in ring 0. ring 1 >> and ring 2 are almost completely useless. So they're useless (for our purposes); I don't see why that makes their ring design broken. Could you please explain a bit more? Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 20:39:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06889 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:39:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-114.camalott.com [208.229.74.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06882 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:39:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA03223; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:38:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Chuck Robey Cc: ben@rosengart.com, Gary Kline , Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 18 Nov 1998 22:38:48 -0600 In-Reply-To: Chuck Robey's message of "Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:49:59 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: <86n25oguuf.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It seems to me that what we ought to be asking for are the hooks, so > those of us that *do* like run-levels *can* have them. I don't > think we should force everyone to have such a thing, but wouldn't it > be possible to have the run levels *without* requiring those that > think they are evil to have to implement a changed startup? > I'm asking for a system where the legacy rc is there for those who > want it (and would probably be installed by default) but a system of > run-levels and rc.d type stuff would be feasible. Such a thing > could then even be a port. I think such an approach would > short-circuit most of the complaints, and let the idea move forward > with coding. It appears that coders are the main people who don't like SysV's init. Your suggestion would mean that the coders and ports maintainers would have to include support for two systems, and most of them only use one themselves. -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 21:00:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09027 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:00:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09022 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:00:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA07948; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:59:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:59:40 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199811190459.UAA07948@apollo.backplane.com> To: Joel Ray Holveck Cc: Marius Bendiksen , Terry Lambert , rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model References: <199811171806.LAA03809@usr09.primenet.com> <3.0.5.32.19981118121341.00975ac0@mail.scancall.no> <199811181842.KAA06180@apollo.backplane.com> <86ogq4gv1v.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :>> have a separate 'interrupt stack'. On Intel cpu's, however, the :>> abstraction is useless due to the completely broken ring design :>> because many supervisor instructions only work in ring 0. ring 1 :>> and ring 2 are almost completely useless. : :So they're useless (for our purposes); I don't see why that makes :their ring design broken. : :Could you please explain a bit more? : :Happy hacking, :joelh The biggest single problem to Intel's ring design is their stack pointer methodology. Rather then keep track of each ring's stack pointer in a hardware register like, say, the motorola architecture, the IA pushes the old %esp onto the stack and loads the new one from the cpu Task structure. This results in completely non-reentrant stack switching unless the interrupt/call procedure pops the saved %esp off the stack on entry, figures out which ring it came from, and re-stores it into the cpu Task structure before proceeding, then pulls it out of the cpu Task structure and pushes it back onto the stack prior to returning. In anycase, I could go on for hours about deficiencies in IA gating. That's just the tip of the iceberg. -Matt :-- :Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org : Fourth law of programming: : Anything that can go wrong wi :sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 21:00:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09055 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:00:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09050 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:00:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA25402 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:00:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA28320; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:00:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:00:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811190500.VAA28320@vashon.polstra.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article , David E. Cross wrote: > On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Vadim Kolontsov wrote: > > > > > I wonder how many people would like to see PAM support in FreeBSD?.. > > *Raises hand* "Me" Good timing! I brought PAM into -current this week, and will be committing the changes to /usr/bin/login to make use of it within the next few days. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 18 21:50:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13563 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:50:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13558 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:50:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (tao.tera.com [207.108.223.55]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25569; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:49:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id VAA08821; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:49:03 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199811190549.VAA08821@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: <86emr0itlo.fsf@detlev.UUCP> from Joel Ray Holveck at "Nov 18, 98 03:22:43 pm" To: joelh@gnu.org (Joel Ray Holveck) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:49:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: adrian@ubergeeks.com, kline@thought.org, jal@ThirdAge.com, n@nectar.com, nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Joel Ray Holveck: [[ ... ]] > > We're not talking about adopting the entire SysV init heirarchy, which > is where most of the ratsnest comes from. We're talking about > augmenting the existing rc system with a little bit more. > I think this is the central point. I'm in 0.0 way advocating that we turn BSD into another SysV look-alike. Just that we make small changes like these that will, in time, have significant benefits. gary -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 00:43:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00474 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:43:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from namodn.com (namodn.com [207.33.107.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00464 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:43:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@namodn.com) Received: (from robert@localhost) by namodn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00404 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:45:15 GMT (envelope-from robert) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:45:15 GMT From: Robert Message-Id: <199811190045.AAA00404@namodn.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe freebsd-hackers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 01:32:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07359 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:32:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07341 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:32:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00710; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:31:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from alzbeta.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (alzbeta.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.62]) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01107; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:31:22 +0100 (CET) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by alzbeta.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id KAA07964; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:31:21 +0100 (MET) From: Cejka Rudolf Message-Id: <199811190931.KAA07964@alzbeta.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> Subject: Re: Is it soup yet? FreeBSD NFS In-Reply-To: from Conrad Minshall at "Nov 18, 98 10:57:56 am" To: conrad@apple.com (Conrad Minshall) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:31:21 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> On 13 Nov, Cejka Rudolf wrote: > > >> > FreeBSD: NFS server without any special parameters. > >> > Solaris: NFS client without any special parameters. > >> > > >> > Example - working on Solaris above mounted filesystem from FreeBSD: > >> > > >> > $ gzcat less-332.tar.gz | tar xvf - # This creates 74 files in > >> > # directory less-332 > >> > $ rm -r less-332 # This _leaves_ 43 files! > >> > rm: Unable to remove directory less-332: File exists > > Do the 43 file names left behind start with ".nfs" or are they the original > filenames created by the "tar xvf -"? They are the original filenames created by the "tar xvf -". Only (74 - 43) files (from beginning of directory) have been removed. > Conrad Minshall ... conrad@apple.com ... 408 974-2749 > Apple Computer ... (Mac OS X) Core Operating Systems ... Filesystems & Kernel > Note if "conrad@apple.com" doesn't work, try using rad@acm.org. > Old picon viewable at: http://facesaver.usenix.org/faces/h/49/4974.htm --=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=-- Rudolf Cejka (cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz; http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~cejkar) Technical University of Brno, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 02:06:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA10732 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:06:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA10672 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:05:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA05589; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:04:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from alzbeta.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (alzbeta.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.62]) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01963; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:04:57 +0100 (CET) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by alzbeta.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA08125; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:04:55 +0100 (MET) From: Cejka Rudolf Message-Id: <199811191004.LAA08125@alzbeta.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> Subject: Re: Is it soup yet? FreeBSD NFS In-Reply-To: from "David E. Cross" at "Nov 18, 98 04:27:26 pm" To: crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:04:54 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Conrad Minshall wrote: > > > >> On 13 Nov, Cejka Rudolf wrote: > > > > >> > FreeBSD: NFS server without any special parameters. > > >> > Solaris: NFS client without any special parameters. > > >> > > > >> > Example - working on Solaris above mounted filesystem from FreeBSD: > > >> > > > >> > $ gzcat less-332.tar.gz | tar xvf - # This creates 74 files in > > >> > # directory less-332 > > >> > $ rm -r less-332 # This _leaves_ 43 files! > > >> > rm: Unable to remove directory less-332: File exists > > > > Do the 43 file names left behind start with ".nfs" or are they the original > > filenames created by the "tar xvf -"? > > Been there, done that. This happens to me all the time if this is a NFSv3 > mount (which is what Solaris will default to). I remember once long ago > when we were first doing v3 there where some issues about filehandles for > directories, I remember this being one of the side-effects of that > problem. I don't remember if that was ever resolved. > > short term fix: use NFSv2 (mount -o vers=2 freebsd.server:/path > /local/path) In many cases this fix is sufficient. But as I said: We are using cachefs with automounting feature there. Cachefs mounts underlying filesystem (NFS in our case) automatically and I haven't found any parameter for changing behaviour of NFS mounting. For example there is cachefs config line: /where -fstype=cachefs,cachedir=/xxx/cache,backfstype=nfs server:/from All parameters are going to cachefs, not nfs :-(. "vers=2" doesn't work, "backfsoptions" doesn't exist... Disabling cachefs (or automounting feature) is worse than living with "rm -r something" bug for us. --=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=-- Rudolf Cejka (cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz; http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~cejkar) Technical University of Brno, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 02:29:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA12710 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:29:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from faber.elte.hu (faber.elte.hu [157.181.78.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA12705 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DBECK@ludens.elte.hu) Received: from ludens.elte.hu by ludens.elte.hu (MX V4.2 VAX) with SMTP; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:28:53 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:28:28 +0000 From: David Beck To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: pls. ignore this Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG test message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 03:31:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA17142 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:31:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA17135; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:31:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Gilles.Bruno@ujf-grenoble.fr) Received: from antigua (adm-bruno.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.177]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA24375; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:30:42 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <4.1.19981119121146.01ce7ac0@niger.ujf-grenoble.fr> X-Sender: bruno@niger.ujf-grenoble.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:28:39 +0100 To: aic7xxx@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Gilles Bruno Subject: Tekram 390 support under 3.0-Release ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi everyone, i noticed this morning that the Tekram 390 scsi controllers are no more supported under Freebsd 3.0-Release : upon adding the "old" amd0 controller and config. my kerneln the "make depend" crash on a missing "scsi/scsiconf.h" include which is no more included since 2.2.7-R.. I think it's a CAM related issue : {101}bsd:bruno grep amd0 /sys/i386/conf/LINT #!CAM# controller amd0 It affected the scsi card using the AMD scsi chip. Look's like there's some place for an add-on to the 3.0-Release errata.txt : these controllers (390,U,F,T) are cited in the 3.0-R Hardware conpatibility list... PS. I switch back to my old AHA2940... still workin' like a charm... -- Gilles BRUNO Universite Joseph Fourier - CRIP Domaine Universitaire 38041 St Martin d'Heres FRANCE Tel (33) 04 76 63 56 68 Fax (33) 04 76 51 42 74 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 03:35:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA17464 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:35:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from faber.elte.hu (faber.elte.hu [157.181.78.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA17451 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:34:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DBECK@ludens.elte.hu) Received: from ludens.elte.hu by ludens.elte.hu (MX V4.2 VAX) with SMTP; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:32:54 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:32:31 +0000 From: David Beck To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SYSV Semaphores & mmap problems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, this is my first turn up in this list, big Hi to All. Sorry for sending mail outside from the list but the list server ignores my mails from my regular account... I ran into two problems with FreeBSD: 1., If I create a program with a few threads and then I block one thread with a SYSV semaphore, then it blocks all threads. Any ideas ? 2., My freebsd box rebooted after I managed to run a multi-process server program which serves a readonly memory database mmaped by all the running 'memory server' instnaces. The size of the db is about 20 Megs. It is an ordered array of key/value pairs and the program actually using a binary search on it. After some investigation I found that this came from these lines in i386/i386/pmap.c: 1461 if (!TAILQ_FIRST(&pv_freelist)) 1462 panic("get_pv_entry: cannot get a pv_entry_t"); This really makes me wondering at first why does the kernel reboot the whole system instead of signaling the process ? Next, I'm wondering if there are any strategies to change this pv interface in the future or it is the time to start hacking :) ? Cheers, David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 04:21:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24164 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24159 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:21:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@shell.monmouth.com) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id HAA09760; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:20:52 -0500 (EST) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199811191220.HAA09760@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: SysV Init To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:20:51 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199811181753.JAA09212@hub.freebsd.org> from "freebsd-hackers-digest" at Nov 18, 98 09:53:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? > On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Snob Art Genre wrote: > > > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gary Kline wrote: > > > > > I'm surprised to hear this. I'd say go with it. The > > > differences between BSD and the SYSV rc files|directories > > > is one of the most significant differences between the two > > > models. > > > > > > Your ideas would be a win-win. > > > > I agree strongly. Sometimes sending something a signal is not all that > > needs to be done to kill it cleanly. A mechanism for glue logic can be > > valuable. I have just recently started adminning Solaris, after a > > couple of years only using various BSDs, and the start and stop scripts > > are one of my favorite features. I said the same thing. I also started working on doing this, however I was still working under 2.x -- so I've just switched to working under 3.0. I will try to get back into this, especially now that I've got a Sun here with Solaris 7 and a copy of Solaris for the x86 here. Boy did I get flames when I proposed this. This is one area where SysV is superior. > > It seems to me that what we ought to be asking for are the hooks, so > those of us that *do* like run-levels *can* have them. I don't think we > should force everyone to have such a thing, but wouldn't it be possible > to have the run levels *without* requiring those that think they are > evil to have to implement a changed startup? > > I'm asking for a system where the legacy rc is there for those who want > it (and would probably be installed by default) but a system of > run-levels and rc.d type stuff would be feasible. Such a thing could > then even be a port. I think such an approach would short-circuit most > of the complaints, and let the idea move forward with coding. > I was looking to do this as a port of the SysV init, getty and hopefully one day package tools. If we got SVR4 or Solaris X86 emulation we'd be set. My plan was two sysctl variables for current and past run state. This would avoid the need for a utmp change. kern.current_runlevel kern.prev_runlevel The who command would also be need modified to support who -R and read the kern.current_runlevel variable. I was thinking about porting getty_ps over along with gettydefs... Anyone spot anything else we'd need to do for compatibility? Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 05:59:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA03138 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:59:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-atm.tampabay.rr.com (tampabay.rr.com [24.92.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA03132 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:59:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spamoff@tampabay.rr.com) Received: from ChaosSolutions.com (dt150n7d.tampabay.rr.com [24.92.196.125]) by mail-atm.tampabay.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.8+RoadRunner) with SMTP id IAA21356 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from tampabay.rr.com by compaq.chaossolutions with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5f.R) for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:13:14 -0500 Message-ID: <36521047.D1128115@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:09:43 -0500 From: Martin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06C-Caldera [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de0 ethernet driver -- another puzzle References: <3652D623.446B9B3D@ics.com> <3650FDA1.A5F6ED6A@tampabay.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Return-Path: spamoff@tampabay.rr.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Make sure the card is set for 0x280 and IRQ=9 using the supplied software. Use > a dos boot disk and run 'setup'. > > Once configure and save FreeBsd will see it. > > All Linux and BSD probes are very limited. They look in a certain address > range, that's why they don't find stuff in different address ranges. I'm becoming dyslexic !!! I should have said 0x280 (0x300 is good as well) and IRQ=10 Losing it ! :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 06:01:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03320 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:01:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03313 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:01:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA01700 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:00:58 GMT Message-ID: <3654249A.6794F460@tdx.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:00:58 +0000 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Dump - odity on network connections? (netcat) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is it me, or does Dump behave 'oddly' when running through network connections such as 'netcat'? I have to set timeouts for the netcat connection, else even when Dump has finished (and presumably closed it's connections) netcat/dump just hangs around ad infinitum... I've had a quick look through the source, but it's a little beyond me - I also seem to remember someone in the dim distant past mentioning this? (Searching the archives for 'dump' was not such a good idea :-) -Karl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 06:38:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA06594 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:38:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server.noc.demon.net (server.noc.demon.net [193.195.224.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA06587 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:38:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fanf@demon.net) Received: by server.noc.demon.net; id OAA17011; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:37:56 GMT Received: from fanf.noc.demon.net(195.11.55.83) by inside.noc.demon.net via smap (3.2) id xma017009; Thu, 19 Nov 98 14:37:55 GMT Received: from fanf by fanf.noc.demon.net with local (Exim 1.73 #2) id 0zgVTH-0002Ck-00; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:54:11 +0000 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Tony Finch Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? Newsgroups: chiark.mail.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <19981118211919.10512@nothing-going-on.org> Organization: Deliberate Obfuscation To Amuse Tony References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:54:11 +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nik Clayton wrote: > >basename=`basename $0` > ># Allow ourself to be overridden by local changes >if [ -x /usr/local/etc/rc.d/${basename} ]; then > exec /usr/local/etc/rc.d/${basename} >fi > ># If there is a global configuration file, suck it in >if [ -r /etc/rc.conf ]; then > . /etc/rc.conf >fi > ># Check for first parameter >if [ $1x = x ]; then > echo ${basename}: No argument provided > exit 1 >fi I like your idea because I find sysV's /etc/init.d convenient. One suggestion: could you put the above boilerplate into a file that gets sourced by all the /etc/rc.d scripts (in case you want to make a global change to it)? And I dislike calling the scripts /etc/rc.d/foo.sh because (IMO) the .sh is redundant and potentially misleading if (e.g.) the sysadmin decides to rewrite them in Perl. Tony. -- 7yuc zhd2**f.a.n.finch dot@dotat.at fanf@demon.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 06:40:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA06858 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:40:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from root.com (root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA06853 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:40:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@root.com) Received: from root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA26690; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:40:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811191440.GAA26690@root.com> To: David Beck cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SYSV Semaphores & mmap problems In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:32:31 GMT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:40:14 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >2., My freebsd box rebooted after I managed to run a multi-process > server program which serves a readonly memory database mmaped by all > the running 'memory server' instnaces. The size of the db is about > 20 Megs. It is an ordered array of key/value pairs and the program > actually using a binary search on it. After some investigation > I found that this came from these lines in i386/i386/pmap.c: > > 1461 if (!TAILQ_FIRST(&pv_freelist)) > 1462 panic("get_pv_entry: cannot get a pv_entry_t"); > > This really makes me wondering at first why does the kernel > reboot the whole system instead of signaling the process ? > Next, I'm wondering if there are any strategies to change this pv > interface in the future or it is the time to start hacking :) ? The panic is caused by running out of "pv entries", which are used in physical-to-virtual translations by the kernel. This is happening because you are running a large number of very large processes that all share the same address space and the default number of pv entries is inadequate for that. You can increase this with the "PMAP_SHPGPERPROC=" kernel option, but be careful about how you set . The default is 200; I'd try doubling it and at the same time decrease the maximum number of processes (via maxusers - maxproc is 16*maxusers). The problem you are want to avoid is consuming too much kernel virtual memory with all of the pv entries which will cause other problems if you run out of KVM. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 06:45:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07178 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:45:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07170 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:45:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id PAA03800 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:45:01 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:44:59 +0100 (MET) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't like this idea, the scripts will be inherently incompatible with the ones in /usr/local/etc/rc.d case word in stop) *) esac solves that. Nick > ># Check for first parameter > >if [ $1x = x ]; then > > echo ${basename}: No argument provided > > exit 1 > >fi > > I like your idea because I find sysV's /etc/init.d convenient. One > suggestion: could you put the above boilerplate into a file that gets > sourced by all the /etc/rc.d scripts (in case you want to make a > global change to it)? And I dislike calling the scripts > /etc/rc.d/foo.sh because (IMO) the .sh is redundant and potentially > misleading if (e.g.) the sysadmin decides to rewrite them in Perl. > > Tony. > -- > 7yuc zhd2**f.a.n.finch > dot@dotat.at > fanf@demon.net > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 07:01:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08094 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:01:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from faber.elte.hu (faber.elte.hu [157.181.78.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA08076 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:00:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DBECK@ludens.elte.hu) Received: from ludens.elte.hu by ludens.elte.hu (MX V4.2 VAX) with SMTP; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:59:29 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:59:23 +0000 From: David Beck To: David Greenman CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SYSV Semaphores & mmap problems In-Reply-To: <199811191440.GAA26690@root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, David Greenman wrote: > Date: Thu, 19 NOV 1998 06:40:14 -0800 > From: David Greenman > To: David Beck > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: SYSV Semaphores & mmap problems > > >2., My freebsd box rebooted after I managed to run a multi-process > > server program which serves a readonly memory database mmaped by all > > the running 'memory server' instnaces. The size of the db is about > > 20 Megs. It is an ordered array of key/value pairs and the program > > actually using a binary search on it. After some investigation > > I found that this came from these lines in i386/i386/pmap.c: > > > > 1461 if (!TAILQ_FIRST(&pv_freelist)) > > 1462 panic("get_pv_entry: cannot get a pv_entry_t"); > > > > This really makes me wondering at first why does the kernel > > reboot the whole system instead of signaling the process ? > > Next, I'm wondering if there are any strategies to change this pv > > interface in the future or it is the time to start hacking :) ? > > The panic is caused by running out of "pv entries", which are used in > physical-to-virtual translations by the kernel. This is happening because > you are running a large number of very large processes that all share the > same address space and the default number of pv entries is inadequate for > that. You can increase this with the "PMAP_SHPGPERPROC=" kernel option, > but be careful about how you set . The default is 200; I'd try doubling > it and at the same time decrease the maximum number of processes (via > maxusers - maxproc is 16*maxusers). The problem you are want to avoid is > consuming too much kernel virtual memory with all of the pv entries which > will cause other problems if you run out of KVM. > The idea basically is to serve a huge database from a PC for cheap. For this reason we want to maximize the database size as big as a PC hardware can support . This can be something like 1 gig. Do you think that this kernel tuning can solve this problem ? I beleive that a more general approach would be better :) On the other hand I actually can solve the problem by creating a multithreaded version and simply malloc the needed space .... There is still the issue that I beleive that the kernel really shouldn't panic at a situation like this ... David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 08:56:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19814 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:56:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mindy.accesscom.com (ns2.accesscom.com [205.226.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19808 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:56:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sabrina@shell.accesscom.com) Received: from shell.accesscom.com (sabrina@shell.accesscom.com [205.226.156.10]) by mindy.accesscom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA14640 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:56:14 -0800 Received: (from sabrina@localhost) by shell.accesscom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id IAA26392 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:56:13 -0800 From: Sabrina Minshall Message-Id: <199811191656.IAA26392@shell.accesscom.com> Subject: kernel panic - help please To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:56:12 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, I'm getting a kernel panic. I have the core dump and am trying to analyse what went wrong. Given an address, I can tell what it points to data/code. if it falls between btext and etext, then it's code. How do I tell this for data, and stack? And what are stacks used in freebsd? I know tmpstk - is it used for interrupts? how about processes, idle task, etc? On another note, how do I get a full dump of the registers like in ddb>show registers Appreciate any help. Sabrina To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 09:30:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24493 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:30:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.nacamar.de (mail.nacamar.de [194.162.162.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24456 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:30:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rohrbach@mail.nacamar.de) Received: (from rohrbach@localhost) by mail.nacamar.de (8.8.7/8.8.8MB-19980212) id SAA22376; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:28:25 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981119182824.F16125@nacamar.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:28:24 +0100 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Mike Smith , "Stephane E. Potvin" Cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD arm port Reply-To: rohrbach@nacamar.net References: <3639E1CC.45D25F60@videotron.ca> <199810301644.IAA00468@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199810301644.IAA00468@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 08:44:24AM -0800 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-Sender: rohrbach@nacamar.net X-Organisation: Nacamar Data Communications GmbH X-Address: Robert-Bosch-Str. 32, 63303 Dreieich, Germany X-Phone: vox: +49 6103 993 870 fax: +49 6103 993 199 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG apple newtons are based on strongarm-110, too i wonder how it would be possible to boot an alternative os on that device since the main os code is on a prom that is bonded on the mainboard afaik. /k Mike Smith (mike@smith.net.au) @ Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 08:44:24AM -0800: > > Well, thanks for the numerous and helpfull responses. As I was suggested > > by many I'll try to first get the build tools working on a NetBSD host > > under arm with egcs (seems to have better arm support from a fast > > skimming of the source) taking the alpha port as template/example. If > > that's wanted I'll keep you informed of my progression. > > I think you'll find intense interest; certainly from those of us with > embedded-systems backgrounds. There are plenty of neat SA-based devices > out there that would be even more fun to play with under FreeBSD. > > What I want *now* is for someone to do a Palm Pilot clone using a > processor with a PMMU. 8) > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- "Nuclear war can ruin your whole compile." -- Karl Lehenbauer http://www.nacamar.de - http://www.nacamar.net - http://www.webmonster.de http://www.apache.de - http://www.quakeforum.de - finger rohrbach@nacamar.net PGP Key fingerprint = F9 A0 DF 91 74 07 6A 1C 5F 0B E0 6B 4D CD 8C 44 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 09:33:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24982 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:33:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24974 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:33:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) id KAA10520; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:33:04 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199811191733.KAA10520@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Tekram 390 support under 3.0-Release ? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981119121146.01ce7ac0@niger.ujf-grenoble.fr> from Gilles Bruno at "Nov 19, 98 12:28:39 pm" To: Gilles.Bruno@ujf-grenoble.fr (Gilles Bruno) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:33:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ Why did you send this to the aic7xxx list as well? AMD != Adaptec ] Gilles Bruno wrote... > Hi everyone, > i noticed this morning that the Tekram 390 scsi controllers are no more > supported under Freebsd 3.0-Release : upon adding the "old" amd0 controller > and config. my kerneln the "make depend" crash on a missing > "scsi/scsiconf.h" include which is no more included since 2.2.7-R.. > I think it's a CAM related issue : > {101}bsd:bruno grep amd0 /sys/i386/conf/LINT > #!CAM# controller amd0 > > It affected the scsi card using the AMD scsi chip. > > Look's like there's some place for an add-on to the 3.0-Release errata.txt > : > these controllers (390,U,F,T) are cited in the 3.0-R Hardware conpatibility > list... The "HARDWARE.TXT" file for 3.0 contains a lot of incorrect information, at least as far as SCSI controller support goes. The 3.0 release notes do have the correct information, though. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 09:38:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26068 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:38:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from calvin.saturn-tech.com (calvin.saturn-tech.com [207.229.19.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26051 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:38:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by calvin.saturn-tech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA03913; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:36:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:36:49 -0700 (MST) From: Doug Russell To: Luigi Rizzo cc: nick.hibma@jrc.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, usb-bsd@makelist.com Subject: Re: update on USB stack/call for help In-Reply-To: <199811121026.LAA09449@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > Currently in FreeBSD we have support for the following: > + SCSI through the generic interface; Quick question... Do most SCSI scanners work right now, or just some HPs, etc? I just got a Mustek 1200LS a couple weeks ago to use in the Den (which usually runs NT), but it would be nice to play with it in FreeBSD as well if it works. (I'll have to move it to the other SCSI card, as the one that came with the scanner is a POS, and definetly has no driver. :) ) Later...... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 09:44:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26782 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:44:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA26700 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:43:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA25680; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:45:51 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199811191545.QAA25680@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: update on USB stack/call for help To: drussell@saturn-tech.com (Doug Russell) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:45:51 +0100 (MET) Cc: nick.hibma@jrc.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, usb-bsd@makelist.com In-Reply-To: from "Doug Russell" at Nov 19, 98 10:36:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Currently in FreeBSD we have support for the following: > > + SCSI through the generic interface; > > Quick question... Do most SCSI scanners work right now, or just some > HPs, etc? I just got a Mustek 1200LS a couple weeks ago to use in the Den i cannot tell for sure, but i think it is very device specific. >From what i have heard some devices implement some standard scsi commands, not sure how many though. For my HP i use a userspace program to drive the scanner. luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 11:14:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07862 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:14:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.nacamar.de (mail.nacamar.de [194.162.162.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA07852 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:14:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rohrbach@mail.nacamar.de) Received: (from rohrbach@localhost) by mail.nacamar.de (8.8.7/8.8.8MB-19980212) id SAA22847; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:37:40 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981119183740.H16125@nacamar.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:37:40 +0100 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Jamie Bowden Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fvwm2 package (3.0) is 'kerberized' Reply-To: rohrbach@nacamar.net References: <363A5719.AFB449CF@reef.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jamie Bowden on Tue, Nov 03, 1998 at 03:36:35PM -0500 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-Sender: rohrbach@nacamar.net X-Organisation: Nacamar Data Communications GmbH X-Address: Robert-Bosch-Str. 32, 63303 Dreieich, Germany X-Phone: vox: +49 6103 993 870 fax: +49 6103 993 199 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG yea, my recommendation for the hacking folks at our site is "build it from /usr/ports" ;-) strange thing anyways, since a real kerberos implementation is only available in the u.s. afaik... ebones works without encryption, doesnt it? /k Jamie Bowden (jamie@itribe.net) @ Tue, Nov 03, 1998 at 03:36:35PM -0500: > On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, James Buszard-Welcher wrote: > > > The fvwm2 package under 3.0-current is kerberized. > > I thought there was something wrong with XFree86 > > install... reinstalled it twice... > > A -lot- of the packages are kerberized and linked against DES for some > reason. > > Jamie Bowden > > -- > Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net > > If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. > -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- "Nuclear war can ruin your whole compile." -- Karl Lehenbauer http://www.nacamar.de - http://www.nacamar.net - http://www.webmonster.de http://www.apache.de - http://www.quakeforum.de - finger rohrbach@nacamar.net PGP Key fingerprint = F9 A0 DF 91 74 07 6A 1C 5F 0B E0 6B 4D CD 8C 44 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 14:51:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02003 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:51:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01997 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:51:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA27325; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:50:21 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA10879; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:50:20 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981119235019.54220@follo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:50:19 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <19981118211919.10512@nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981118211919.10512@nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:19:19PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:19:19PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 09:01:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. > > Well, that's certainly one way to kick off a discussion. > > Attached is a quick implementation of what I've been talking about. All > it does is provide startup scripts for inetd and an NFS server. This is > a minimal implementation, provided for people to kick around. If you're going to do this, please do it properly - splitting /etc/rc, allowing service overrides, and tracking dependencies between different services fully (topological sort). A re-write of /etc/rc (along with rc.network, rc.serial, and rc.pccard) to do this is at http://www.freebsd.org/~eivind/newrc.tar.gz As I did it here, it will require grep, sed and tsort to move to the root partition - this could be replaced by just sed and tsort by abusing sed, or a single program written to do the function sed, grep and tsort fills in my code. The syntax for dependencies in the stuff I wrote is adding extra lines for the dependencies to the individual config files; the format of these are #RC:RUNINRC - Run this service by sourcing into rc (. ) #RC:AFTER - Start the service this script represent after the other service #RC:BEFORE - Start the service this script represent before the other service It is possible to introduce 'virtual services' that are just used as split-nodes - I'm not sure if this is good or bad. The syntax for selecting scripts is that they have to be named after the regexp [0-9]*[A-Za-z]+[0-9]* We should probably also record which services are started somewhere - touching a file in /var/run/services/ is one way of doing this. The code is mostly 'proof of concept' - I've not even tested the last changes. I have tested that the scripts are run in correct order etc from the basic concept. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 15:09:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04912 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:09:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04902 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:09:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06769; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:29:33 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981119202933.12625@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:29:33 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nick Hibma on Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 03:44:59PM +0100 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 03:44:59PM +0100, Nick Hibma wrote: > I don't like this idea, the scripts will be inherently incompatible with > the ones in /usr/local/etc/rc.d > > case word in > stop) > *) > esac > > solves that. Personally, I'd rather fix the scripts that get installed in /usr/local/etc/rc.d, write documentation that says "Do it like this", provide a skeleton port start/stop script for porters to use, and watch the commit of new ports to make sure they adhere to the structure. But that's just me. . . N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 15:09:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04968 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:09:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04959 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:09:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17524; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:57:48 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981119215748.35037@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:57:48 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Tony Finch , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <19981118211919.10512@nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Tony Finch on Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 02:54:11PM +0000 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 02:54:11PM +0000, Tony Finch wrote: > I like your idea because I find sysV's /etc/init.d convenient. One > suggestion: could you put the above boilerplate into a file that gets > sourced by all the /etc/rc.d scripts (in case you want to make a > global change to it)? Makes sense. I was going to do that when I was writing these, but thought it was overkill for the sake of two examples. > And I dislike calling the scripts > /etc/rc.d/foo.sh because (IMO) the .sh is redundant and potentially > misleading if (e.g.) the sysadmin decides to rewrite them in Perl. 100% agreement. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 15:10:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05106 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:10:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05081 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:10:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA18613; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:06:36 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981119220636.27010@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:06:36 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Jacques Vidrine , Nik Clayton Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <199811172241.QAA00519@spawn.nectar.com> <19981117235348.41074@nothing-going-on.org> <199811180255.UAA01561@spawn.nectar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199811180255.UAA01561@spawn.nectar.com>; from Jacques Vidrine on Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 08:55:29PM -0600 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I think most people have commented on your message, so I'm going to skip bits, but; On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 08:55:29PM -0600, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > > 3. Makes updating /etc simpler after a 'make world'. If each script > > starts with something like > > > > if [ -x /usr/local/etc/rc.d/`basename $0` ]; then > > exec /usr/local/etc/rc.d/`basename $0` $* > > fi > > > > then you could completely replace sendmail (which would be started > > from smtp.sh) by creating a /usr/local/etc/rc.d/smtp.sh script. One > > less thing to worry about. > > I don't understand your point here. If you want to use something other > than sendmail, just set sendmail_enable="NO" in rc.conf. I'd prefer to change that variable to smtp_enable (with sendmail_enable being understood as a compatability hack for a short period of time, say 1 month). IMHO it makes more sense for rc.conf to specify this fairly generically, and let the rc.d/* scripts handle the specifics. There are other variables in rc.conf which could use the same treatment. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 15:45:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09095 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:45:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA09088 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:45:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 12224 invoked by uid 1001); 19 Nov 1998 23:44:31 +0000 (GMT) To: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk Cc: dot@dotat.at, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:57:48 +0000" References: <19981119215748.35037@nothing-going-on.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:44:31 +0100 Message-ID: <12222.911519071@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > And I dislike calling the scripts > > /etc/rc.d/foo.sh because (IMO) the .sh is redundant and potentially > > misleading if (e.g.) the sysadmin decides to rewrite them in Perl. At least in Solaris there is a difference: /etc/rc.d/foo.sh is sourced (run in the same shell), while /etc/rc.d/foo is run in a subshell. This means that if you want to do something which affects other startup jobs, (eg. set umask to 022), you better do it in foo.sh. A useful difference, IMHO. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 16:36:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16810 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:36:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16802 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:36:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29745; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd029605; Thu Nov 19 17:36:18 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA21200; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:35:56 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811200035.RAA21200@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model To: Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no (Marius Bendiksen) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:35:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981118121441.009818d0@mail.scancall.no> from "Marius Bendiksen" at Nov 18, 98 12:14:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >But as SEF notes, a call gate gan go to any address in any ring, > >but an Interrupt can't, so using an interrupt makes for slower > >emulation. > > We can point an interrupt to a call gate and achieve this effect, can't we? If the target is in a different VM, yes; otherwise, no. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 16:53:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18614 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:53:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18604 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:53:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22087; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:52:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd022025; Thu Nov 19 17:52:38 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA21672; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:52:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811200052.RAA21672@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:52:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no, tlambert@primenet.com, rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811181842.KAA06180@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Nov 18, 98 10:42:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On the 386 and 486, call gates are faster. On the pentium, pentium-PRO, > and pentium-II, interrupts are faster. > > Argument copying is wasteful and has limited use on systems where the > supervisor has access to the user mode memory map. FreeBSD (and virtually > all other operating systems) uses a two-layer design, not a multi-layer > ring design. About the only thing you might see different between OS's > is that some processors have a separate 'interrupt stack'. On Intel cpu's, > however, the abstraction is useless due to the completely broken ring > design because many supervisor instructions only work in ring 0. ring 1 > and ring 2 are almost completely useless. It is useful for the utilization of Windows VxD's in whatever kernel that whatever kernel support putting the Windows VxD's in a seperate VM space. This is also useful for NetWare NLM's. Not that anyone would want to leverage billions of dollars of commercial developement to save a few decades of driver writing... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 16:56:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19040 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19035 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:56:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23513; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:55:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd023475; Thu Nov 19 17:55:29 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA22013; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:55:27 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811200055.RAA22013@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:55:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: vadim@tversu.ru, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981118221303.28678@follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Nov 18, 98 10:13:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I wonder how many people would like to see PAM support in FreeBSD?.. > > Enough that it was committed yesterday (or was that this morning?) Cool. Someone should now go through the Sun CERT and other security advisories; I think at last count there were 40 some-odd that involved PAM. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 17:10:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20569 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:10:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20557 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:10:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17671; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:09:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd017589; Thu Nov 19 18:09:24 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22661; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:09:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811200109.SAA22661@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SYSV Semaphores & mmap problems To: DBECK@ludens.elte.hu (David Beck) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:09:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "David Beck" at Nov 19, 98 12:32:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I ran into two problems with FreeBSD: > 1., If I create a program with a few threads and then I block > one thread with a SYSV semaphore, then it blocks all threads. > Any ideas ? Use a mutex instead. SYSV semaphores are not process reentrant (they're semaphores). Neither are pthreads mutexes, but at least you will only block threads wanting the mutex instead of all threads. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 18:51:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00233 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:51:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00226 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:51:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA07658; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:50:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981119205041.03351@futuresouth.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:50:41 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Eivind Eklund Cc: Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981115235938.22908@nothing-going-on.org> <19981117210138.03327@nothing-going-on.org> <19981118211919.10512@nothing-going-on.org> <19981119235019.54220@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19981119235019.54220@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 11:50:19PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 11:50:19PM +0100, Eivind Eklund woke me up to tell me: > On Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:19:19PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 09:01:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > > > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > > > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. > > > > Well, that's certainly one way to kick off a discussion. > > > > Attached is a quick implementation of what I've been talking about. All > > it does is provide startup scripts for inetd and an NFS server. This is > > a minimal implementation, provided for people to kick around. > > If you're going to do this, please do it properly - splitting /etc/rc, > allowing service overrides, and tracking dependencies between > different services fully (topological sort). > > A re-write of /etc/rc (along with rc.network, rc.serial, and > rc.pccard) to do this is at > http://www.freebsd.org/~eivind/newrc.tar.gz I've been contemplating (and have the idea sketched out) for a drop-in replacement for /etc/rc* that would handle at least ordering/dependancy issues for a while now. Probably not the cleanest solution, but completely drop-in to the current scheme. I'll drag that out (I think I ran it through the /dev/null compressor program to save space) maybe this weekend and see what I can do... *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 19:16:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02667 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:16:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02662 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:16:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA00476; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:16:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA17171; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:16:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:16:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811200316.TAA17171@vashon.polstra.com> To: tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199811200055.RAA22013@usr09.primenet.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199811200055.RAA22013@usr09.primenet.com>, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Someone should now go through the Sun CERT and other security > advisories; I think at last count there were 40 some-odd that > involved PAM. Per your suggestion back around August, I looked through them. I didn't find anything relevant to us. The advisories were either very old or they applied to modules that we don't use. Of course, it's entirely possible I missed an important one. So anyone else is also encouraged to look for reports and see whether the problems exist in the code I imported. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 19 21:48:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18530 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:48:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.dtir.qld.gov.au (ns.dtir.qld.gov.au [203.108.138.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18523 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:48:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au) Received: by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au; id PAA04904; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:46:25 +1000 (EST) Received: from ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au(167.123.8.3) by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma004888; Fri, 20 Nov 98 15:46:05 +1000 Received: from atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.8.9]) by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22824; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:46:05 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.10.10]) by atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA27640; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:46:04 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (localhost.dtir.qld.gov.au [127.0.0.1]) by nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25250; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:46:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from syssgm@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au) Message-Id: <199811200546.PAA25250@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: SysV Init References: <199811191220.HAA09760@shell.monmouth.com> In-Reply-To: <199811191220.HAA09760@shell.monmouth.com> from Bill/Carolyn Pechter at "Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:20:51 -0500" Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:46:02 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 19th November 1998, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Chuck Robey wrote: >Boy did I get flames when I proposed this. Perfectly understandable. Wish I could think of some good personal attacks, but flaming isn't really my style. Instead, I'll beseech thee to refrain from consorting with the Dark One. >This is one area where SysV is superior. Woah! Put me down as absolutely against this position. Put my face on your dart board, if you must! >> I'm asking for a system where the legacy rc is there for those who want ^^^^^^ "Legacy" in this case is a nasty word. It's not legacy as far as I am concerned. It is the current and best practice. I would be bitterly disappointed if it was downgraded to a compatibility option on a SysV style init system. >> it (and would probably be installed by default) but a system of >> run-levels and rc.d type stuff would be feasible. Such a thing could >> then even be a port. I think such an approach would short-circuit most >> of the complaints, and let the idea move forward with coding. > >I was looking to do this as a port of the SysV init, getty and >hopefully one day package tools. If we got SVR4 or Solaris X86 >emulation we'd be set. > >My plan was two sysctl variables for current and past run state. >This would avoid the need for a utmp change. > >kern.current_runlevel >kern.prev_runlevel > >The who command would also be need modified to support who -R and >read the kern.current_runlevel variable. > >I was thinking about porting getty_ps over along with gettydefs... > >Anyone spot anything else we'd need to do for compatibility? I'll take the lateral view on this and assume you mean compatibility with existing practice. :-) I hope that any additions you make will not cause any *requirement* to use run levels for any purpose whatsoever. Optional use among consenting adults is hard to stop. And another thing... Oops, they're turning off the network for the building relocation. Oh well, you'll have to wait for later before I can tell you how much grief the SysV init system has given me over the years. Stephen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 01:01:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07990 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:01:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ludens.elte.hu (ludens.elte.hu [157.181.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA07980 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:00:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DBECK@ludens.elte.hu) Received: from ludens.elte.hu by ludens.elte.hu (MX V4.2 VAX) with SMTP; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:00:32 +0100 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:00:31 +0000 From: David Beck To: Terry Lambert CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SYSV Semaphores & mmap problems In-Reply-To: <199811200109.SAA22661@usr09.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > Date: Fri, 20 NOV 1998 01:09:16 +0000 (GMT) > From: Terry Lambert > To: David Beck > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: SYSV Semaphores & mmap problems > > > I ran into two problems with FreeBSD: > > 1., If I create a program with a few threads and then I block > > one thread with a SYSV semaphore, then it blocks all threads. > > Any ideas ? > > Use a mutex instead. SYSV semaphores are not process reentrant > (they're semaphores). Neither are pthreads mutexes, but at > least you will only block threads wanting the mutex instead of > all threads. Yep. The problem is to control access to a shared memory segment between unrelated processes and in the same time the server process actually is a multithreaded process. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 01:35:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA10448 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:35:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA10439 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:35:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id KCWUAHOJ; Fri, 20 Nov 98 09:34:44 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981120103442.0099f460@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:34:42 +0100 To: Terry Lambert , dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811200052.RAA21672@usr09.primenet.com> References: <199811181842.KAA06180@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> On the 386 and 486, call gates are faster. On the pentium, pentium-PRO, >> and pentium-II, interrupts are faster. With regards to this, might it not be a good idea to use a different syscall convention, based on whether you've got the 486/384 options in your kernel or not? (Plus an additional parameter to completely disable the multiplexer interrupt, as this should *not* be done until you've rebuilt everything to use the call gate interface instead ;) --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 02:03:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA12670 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:03:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ruhrgebiet.individual.net (in-ruhr.ruhr.de [141.39.224.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12658 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:03:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bs@adimus.de) Received: (from admin@localhost) by mail.ruhrgebiet.individual.net (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5) with UUCP id KAA28389; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:41:22 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail by mx.adimus.de with local (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0zgmq6-0000A7-00; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:26:54 +0100 Received: from det.adimus.de(192.168.0.1) via SMTP by adimus.de, id smtpdIhQ590; Fri Nov 20 10:26:48 1998 Received: from bs by det.adimus.de with local (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0zgmpy-0000tr-00; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:26:46 +0100 To: Stephen McKay Cc: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SysV Init References: <199811191220.HAA09760@shell.monmouth.com> <199811200546.PAA25250@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Benedikt Stockebrand Date: 20 Nov 1998 10:26:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: Stephen McKay's message of "Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:46:02 +1000" Message-ID: Lines: 81 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Stephen McKay writes: > On Thursday, 19th November 1998, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > >This is one area where SysV is superior. What's "superior"? Just additional functionality? Then it definitely *is* superior. Easier handling? Then it's a big step in the wrong direction. Which init is "superior" depends on your particular needs. And SysV init has been developed to cover someones needs. I know at least one job where a SysV init would be very handy: I'm currently running a firewall setup on FreeBSD. I use the securelevel kernel variable and chflags schg everything when I boot the machine. To do actual reconfiguration things on those machines I need to reboot them to reset the securelevel. I can't simply go into single user mode because those boxes don't have a console or anything connected. For maintenance I need to up an internal interface and start the sshd. With a SysV init I'd just use a "spare" runlevel for this. Now I use a custom rc file that checks for the existence of some "signal" files (like the old /fastboot thing) and then runs a different set of scripts to start the machine. But this requires to reboot the machine every time I want As a general rule of thumb I say that any machine that I need to handle primarily via remote administration has good use for a "remote administration" mode (or runlevel) in addition to the single user mode available with the BSD init. And there are probably other cases where a SysV init is useful. But in a "standard scenario" the SysV init will provide no useful functionality but instead cause unnecessary problems with its complexity. > Woah! Put me down as absolutely against this position. Put my face on > your dart board, if you must! Nah, we'll have you rewrite the FreeBSD rc scripts for SysV init :-) Actually, making a SysV init use standard BSD-style rc scripts isn't *that* much of a problem. And I strongly propose to keep the rc scripts BSD-style because they're usually easier to understand especially by newcomers. > >> I'm asking for a system where the legacy rc is there for those who want > ^^^^^^ > "Legacy" in this case is a nasty word. It's not legacy as far as I am > concerned. It is the current and best practice. I would be bitterly > disappointed if it was downgraded to a compatibility option on a SysV > style init system. Not even a compatibility option but a special inittab that makes it behave like a BSD init. > >My plan was two sysctl variables for current and past run state. > >This would avoid the need for a utmp change. > > > >kern.current_runlevel > >kern.prev_runlevel Is it necessary to mess around in the kernel for this? I'd try to keep runlevel information within the init instead. But I admit that I'm not comfortable enough with SysV init to know the conventions how it provides runlevel information to regular userland programs. If no such convention exists, why not use a Unix domain socket or such? > I'll take the lateral view on this and assume you mean compatibility with > existing practice. :-) I hope that any additions you make will not > cause any *requirement* to use run levels for any purpose whatsoever. > Optional use among consenting adults is hard to stop. \begin{aol}Me too\end{aol} So long, Ben -- Benedikt Stockebrand, Dipl. inf. Adimus Beratungsgesellschaft für System- und Netzwerkadministration mbH & Co KG System Administration & Design, Universitätsstr. 142, 44799 Bochum IT Security, Remote System Mgmt Tel. (02 34) 971 971 -2, Fax -9 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 03:20:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18724 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:20:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.243.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA18697 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:20:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23190 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:19:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:19:30 +0100 (CET) From: Oliver Fromme Message-Id: <199811201119.MAA23190@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Changing the load address of the kernel? Newsgroups: list.freebsd-hackers Organization: Administration Heim 3 Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 RZTUC(3) PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, After posting this to freebsd-questions I realized that it's probably much better suited for -hackers. I'm sorry for the double posting. I'm trying to change the load address of the kernel, but without success. The default seems to be f0100000 (causing the bootloader to load it at 00100000). I tried to change it to f0400000. I changed the load address in two files: /sys/i386/conf/Makefile.i386 (one line) /sys/kern/link_aout.c (two lines) The bootloader (I'm using rawboot from a floppy) correctly loads the kernel to 00400000, but it hangs right after that. Did I miss anything? Any help would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I'm using a 3.0-19981103-SNAP with ELF userland and aout kernel. I searched the mailing list archives on this topic, but without success. Background of the problem: I'm trying to boot a diskless computer with a network boot ROM by LanWorks (www.lanworks.com). They require to make a bootable floppy first, then put an image of that floppy on a tftp server. The ROM loads that image, makes a RAM disk from it and boots it. The problem is: That RAM disks seems to overlap with the kernel at 00100000. There doesn't seem to be a way to change the location of the RAM disk. BTW, I also tried to contact InCom (www.incom.de) for boot ROMs, but they're completely unresponsive. The demo version that they offer is from 1995 and doesn't seem to support any PCI FastEthernet cards. :-( Regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18/61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 03:49:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA21546 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:49:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA21540 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:49:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09976 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:48:49 GMT Message-ID: <36555721.8E3D2CDF@tdx.co.uk> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:48:49 +0000 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Getting PID of parent pipe? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Is there an 'easy' way of getting the PID of a parent process feeding a command's stdin? e.g. cat something | foo | bar I need to get the PID of foo while running as bar... -Kp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 04:17:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24973 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:17:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24968 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:17:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA16326; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:16:57 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA14119; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:16:57 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981120131656.60633@follo.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:16:56 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SysV Init References: <199811181753.JAA09212@hub.freebsd.org> <199811191220.HAA09760@shell.monmouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199811191220.HAA09760@shell.monmouth.com>; from Bill/Carolyn Pechter on Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 07:20:51AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 07:20:51AM -0500, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > I was looking to do this as a port of the SysV init, getty and > hopefully one day package tools. If we got SVR4 or Solaris X86 > emulation we'd be set. > > My plan was two sysctl variables for current and past run state. > This would avoid the need for a utmp change. > > kern.current_runlevel > kern.prev_runlevel > > The who command would also be need modified to support who -R and > read the kern.current_runlevel variable. If you seriously believe you will get kernel changes into FreeBSD to support SysV runlevels, then I'd advise you to change your beliefs. It will not happen. Kernel changes are not necessary; what is necessary is service logging, and each state containing a list of which services it contains. When you change state, you just do a transition (killing the services you don't really have in there). The information to be able to do this is encoded in the proposal I sent -hackers - code is at http://www.freebsd.org/~eivind/newrc.tar.gz though this doesn't log. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 05:03:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29039 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:03:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29031 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:03:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rene@canyon.demon.nl) Received: from [212.238.15.212] (helo=canyon.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zgqCm-00071X-00; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:02:32 +0000 Received: (from rene@localhost) by canyon.demon.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00990; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:16:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from rene) From: Rene de Vries Message-Id: <199811201216.NAA00990@canyon.demon.nl> Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? In-Reply-To: <19981119235019.54220@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Nov 19, 98 11:50:19 pm" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (freebsd-hackers) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:16:28 +0100 (CET) Cc: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, I like this thread! Packaging software would be a lot easier if this was implemented in FreeBSD. Wouldn't it be neat to have a command like: "service start apache" which starts apache (and all other services needed to run apache). I think that this could be done along the same lines as Eivind suggested, but without the "RC:BEFORE" option. Services should know on which other services they depend on and therefor you don't need a before option. /etc/rc could then use something like ". /sbin/service start all" to start all services. The nice thing is that if you know a dependency graph of all services you could also use it to stop services, stopping also all services depending on the stopped service. This would easy starting and stopping of services that provide a service for other services (like databases). Suggested user-interface: /sbin/service list List all running services, this can be done as Eivind states, using /var/run/services. /sbin/service start Start all services (including ) to be able to use the service . /sbin/service stop Stop all services that depend on and stop the service . Maybe we should move the stuff that is currently started from rc* to be seen as a service. This has the *big* disadvantage of removing rc.conf (or sourcing that file in a lot of services). I don't know if the actual implementation would be easy (or at least feasible), but the ui would certainly help a lot of sysadmins with their daily work. I can't see all the (dis)advantages of this idea, so please don't flame me. Rene > On Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:19:19PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 09:01:38PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > > > If there are no more comments by Thursday I'll take it as tacit agreement, > > > and go ahead. I'll do sendmail first. > > > > Well, that's certainly one way to kick off a discussion. > > > > Attached is a quick implementation of what I've been talking about. All > > it does is provide startup scripts for inetd and an NFS server. This is > > a minimal implementation, provided for people to kick around. > > If you're going to do this, please do it properly - splitting /etc/rc, > allowing service overrides, and tracking dependencies between > different services fully (topological sort). > > A re-write of /etc/rc (along with rc.network, rc.serial, and > rc.pccard) to do this is at > http://www.freebsd.org/~eivind/newrc.tar.gz > > As I did it here, it will require grep, sed and tsort to move to the > root partition - this could be replaced by just sed and tsort by > abusing sed, or a single program written to do the function > sed, grep and tsort fills in my code. > > The syntax for dependencies in the stuff I wrote is adding extra lines > for the dependencies to the individual config files; the format of > these are > > #RC:RUNINRC > - Run this service by sourcing into rc (. ) > #RC:AFTER > - Start the service this script represent after the other service > #RC:BEFORE > - Start the service this script represent before the other service > > It is possible to introduce 'virtual services' that are just used as > split-nodes - I'm not sure if this is good or bad. > > The syntax for selecting scripts is that they have to be named after > the regexp [0-9]*[A-Za-z]+[0-9]* > > We should probably also record which services are started somewhere - > touching a file in /var/run/services/ is one way of doing this. > > > The code is mostly 'proof of concept' - I've not even tested the last > changes. I have tested that the scripts are run in correct order etc > from the basic concept. > > Eivind. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- Rene de Vries http://www.tcja.nl/~rene; mailto:rene@tcja.nl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 05:23:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01263 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:23:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA01256 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:23:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id KCYYVMXJ; Fri, 20 Nov 98 13:22:31 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981120142229.0093e3d0@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:22:29 +0100 To: Rene de Vries , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (freebsd-hackers) From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? Cc: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) In-Reply-To: <199811201216.NAA00990@canyon.demon.nl> References: <19981119235019.54220@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Wouldn't it be neat to have a command like: "service start apache" which >starts apache (and all other services needed to run apache). Indeed. >I think that this could be done along the same lines as Eivind suggested, >but without the "RC:BEFORE" option. Services should know on which other >services they depend on and therefor you don't need a before option. 'init' doesn't, however. >/etc/rc could then use something like ". /sbin/service start all" to start >all services. You need proper ordering to make this work, which one of the things Eivind has implemented. >I can't see all the (dis)advantages of this idea, so please don't flame me. [insert flames here for good measure] There! ;) --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 05:59:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA05308 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:59:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA05303 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:59:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20857; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:58:26 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA14328; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:58:25 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981120145824.53958@follo.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:58:24 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Rene de Vries , freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: /etc/rc.d, and changes to /etc/rc? References: <19981119235019.54220@follo.net> <199811201216.NAA00990@canyon.demon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199811201216.NAA00990@canyon.demon.nl>; from Rene de Vries on Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 01:16:28PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 01:16:28PM +0100, Rene de Vries wrote: > Wouldn't it be neat to have a command like: "service start apache" which > starts apache (and all other services needed to run apache). > > I think that this could be done along the same lines as Eivind suggested, > but without the "RC:BEFORE" option. Services should know on which other > services they depend on and therefor you don't need a before option. This was what I thought, too. Then I started implementing it. Then I found a definite need for "RC:BEFORE". It is extremely simple to implement (you just insert an edge in the opposite direction in the graph), and it introduce a lot of freedom of expression - and a lot of expressions become very wrong if you don't introduce it. An example of this is the running of 'savecore'. You want to run this early. This is a dependency of savecore, not of the stuff that come later. Expressing it in the stuff that come later is IMO inappropriate, especially as you will have to introduce it everywhere. With RC:BEFORE, it is possible to create blocks in the startup architecture, and let extra services add themselves between the blocks. An example is the network stages: network1 ... network2 ... network3 There are a bunch of things that need to run between network1 and network2. I can easily envision having to add more things there - and having to modify network2 each time would be a pain. This is especially true if the new stuff comes from /usr/local/etc/rc.d - changes there should IMO *never* have to result in changes in /etc/rc.d. > /etc/rc could then use something like ". /sbin/service start all" to start > all services. > > The nice thing is that if you know a dependency graph of all services you > could also use it to stop services, stopping also all services depending > on the stopped service. This would easy starting and stopping of services > that provide a service for other services (like databases). This was the intent, yes :-) It also allow you to create 'runstates' by just composing them of sets of services. [... Suggested user interface snipped ...] > Maybe we should move the stuff that is currently started from rc* to > be seen as a service. This has the *big* disadvantage of removing rc.conf > (or sourcing that file in a lot of services). Heh. I already did the move (including rc.conf support :-), but didn't add the 'start', 'stop', 'restart' and 'verify' (update /var/run/services/ if admin has manually killed daemons) keywords to the stuff in rc.d - as what I did was intended as a proof-of-concept for the topological ordering, not the rest (which we already had Nik's suggestions for, which I basically agreed to). > I don't know if the actual implementation would be easy (or at least > feasible), but the ui would certainly help a lot of sysadmins with > their daily work. Not too difficult to implement, I think. That's why I started to try :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 06:27:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA08385 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:27:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jau.tmt.tele.fi (jau.tmt.tele.fi [194.252.70.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA08380; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:27:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jau@jau.tmt.tele.fi) Received: (from jau@localhost) by jau.tmt.tele.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1/JAU-2.2) id QAA04000; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:27:06 +0200 (EET) From: "Jukka A. Ukkonen" Message-Id: <199811201427.QAA04000@jau.tmt.tele.fi> Subject: infinite loop in netscape... To: freebsd-mozilla@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:27:06 +0200 (EET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Latin-Date: Vineri XX Novembrie a.d. MCMXCVIII Organization: Internet Services R&D / Sonera Ltd. Finland Phone: +358-2040-4025 (office) / +358-400-606671 (mobile) Content-Conversion: prohibited X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25+pgp] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy! Does anyone have any idea why netscape-4.5 (the native FreeBSD binary) ends up busy looping like this... (ktrace/kdump output) 3931 netscape PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x9067b0 mask=0x0 code=0x0 3931 netscape RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN 3931 netscape CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfaad0,0) 3931 netscape RET gettimeofday 0 3931 netscape CALL sigreturn(0xefbfab6c) 3931 netscape RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN 3931 netscape PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x9067b0 mask=0x0 code=0x0 3931 netscape CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfaad0,0) 3931 netscape RET gettimeofday 0 3931 netscape CALL sigreturn(0xefbfab6c) 3931 netscape RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN 3931 netscape PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x9067b0 mask=0x0 code=0x0 3931 netscape CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfaad0,0) 3931 netscape RET gettimeofday 0 3931 netscape CALL sigreturn(0xefbfab6c) 3931 netscape RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN 3931 netscape PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x9067b0 mask=0x0 code=0x0 3931 netscape CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfaad0,0) 3931 netscape RET gettimeofday 0 3931 netscape CALL sigreturn(0xefbfab6c) 3931 netscape RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN 3931 netscape PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x9067b0 mask=0x0 code=0x0 3931 netscape CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfaad0,0) 3931 netscape RET gettimeofday 0 3931 netscape CALL sigreturn(0xefbfab6c) 3931 netscape RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN 3931 netscape PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x9067b0 mask=0x0 code=0x0 3931 netscape CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfaad0,0) 3931 netscape RET gettimeofday 0 3931 netscape CALL sigreturn(0xefbfab6c) 3931 netscape RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN This happens quite often and usually immediately when starting netscape. This could of course be also a problem in some X library like lesstiff or some such instead of the actual netscape/mozilla code, but I have no way of telling where this happens, because I just installed a pre-compiled binary. Cheers, // jau .--- ..- -.- -.- .- .- .-.-.- ..- -.- -.- --- -. . -. / Jukka A. Ukkonen, Internet Services R&D / Sonera Ltd. /__ M.Sc. (sw-eng & cs) (Phone) +358-2040-4025 / Internet: Jukka.Ukkonen@sonera.fi (Fax) +358-2040-64724 / Internet: jau@iki.fi (Mobile) +358-400-606671 v Internet: ukkonen@nic.funet.fi (Home&Fax) +358-9-6215280 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 07:02:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA11712 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:02:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11698 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:02:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25644; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:03:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199811201503.KAA25644@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Robert Withrow cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, witr@rwwa.com Subject: Re: AMD/NFS problems with 3.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:29:07 EST." <199811182229.RAA25694@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:03:59 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Following up on my posting: All of my *AMD* problems were cured by upgrading to the latest version: am-utils-6.0b2s3. I'd like to suggest that 2.2.8 and 3.next upgrade to, at least, the 6.0 beta stream instead of the alpha code that is in there now. (I still have NFS problems, which I will send to another thread). Also (I know this was discussed before, since I saw a web reference for it in a search I did, but a search of the FreeBSD mailing lists for "am-utils" returns *nothing* related to am-utils, at least for me!) I'd suggest that this should probably be deleted from the BIN distribution. I doubt if more than a small minority of FreeBSD users actually *need* it, and thus it only adds bloat. Also, it builds and runs fine out-of-the-box and it is being actively maintained. It is at least incrementally harder to replace the BIN amd with one you build yourself, since you have to reverse engineer the various paths to issue to the configure script. Another note: for people who build "contrib" code into FreeBSD, it would help if you saved "config.status" when you use a frozen configuration. It saves time and reduces errors when someone else is trying to replace the "contrib" version with a more recent one... Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 07:15:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12904 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:15:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12899 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:15:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA09331; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:14:43 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma009329; Fri, 20 Nov 98 09:14:35 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost.nectar.com [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA12743; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:14:35 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199811201514.JAA12743@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <199811200546.PAA25250@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> References: <199811191220.HAA09760@shell.monmouth.com> <199811200546.PAA25250@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> Subject: Re: SysV Init To: Stephen McKay cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:14:34 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Any work in this area should make its debut as a port first, so that folks can try it out if they are so inclined. This isn't something that would find its way into the base anytime soon. But if the port is sufficiently superior to the current system (and therefore superior to the SysV system), then it should pick up enough momentum to get committed one day. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org On 20 November 1998 at 15:46, Stephen McKay wrote: [snip] > "Legacy" in this case is a nasty word. It's not legacy as far as I am > concerned. It is the current and best practice. I would be bitterly > disappointed if it was downgraded to a compatibility option on a SysV > style init system. [snip] > I'll take the lateral view on this and assume you mean compatibility with > existing practice. :-) I hope that any additions you make will not > cause any *requirement* to use run levels for any purpose whatsoever. > Optional use among consenting adults is hard to stop. > > And another thing... Oops, they're turning off the network for the building > relocation. Oh well, you'll have to wait for later before I can tell you > how much grief the SysV init system has given me over the years. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNlWHWjeRhT8JRySpAQFLmwP+LL/KYGqOYYTjILivjmt6IDAOJQIG5dhM uw+oIq4qNIFLLthbTVrQ8kBRTUVbMc2aY68/k0eLWJ2wfBzD41xdM4kaESkPUpWN UGaV7kHYg+F7qiCtvrTIh0Akcm5bhtzvbriNvEFhV73Ei3vxXZMzIIx7oqUJjhYN Nv2oQ1SjzyU= =XaRt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 07:21:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13412 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:21:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13400 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:21:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25723; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:23:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199811201523.KAA25723@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: witr@rwwa.com, bwithrow@baynetworks.com Subject: NFS probs with 3.0 and earlier releases. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:23:50 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a NFS interop problem in 3.0 (very severe) and some earlier versions (2.2.7 and 2.2.6 at least, not as severe). NFS to a specific mount seems to ocationally go deaf, but later restores itself. Other mountpoints are unaffected. The problem is repeatable, but it is hard to duplicate in a simple way! An example: All of these NFS volumes are automounted using AMD, and this includes my home directory. I can log on using a virtual terminal at the console and four volumes automount correctly and are accessable, including my home directory. I can then switch to the XDM running on a different VT, and log in and my home directory NSF mount will suddenly go deaf! Even on the other VT. All other mountpoints are fine, and I can mount other filesystems with no problems. Usually, after a variable amount of time, NFS seems to get over it, and I can access the directory on both sessions. While this is going on, I can go to another computer and access the home directory without problems, so I am pretty sure the server isn't hung. This problem seems to *only* occur when I log into an X session, and *never* when I log into a simple VT session. Usually (on 2.2.6 and 2.2.7) this problem only occurs *once*. I can forcably dis-mount the various file systems and then log in over the X session and everything is fine. On 3.0 though, it appears that the home-directory mount goes deaf again at later times. In the system log I get these: Nov 19 18:02:18 kyzyl /kernel: nfs server pizzahut:/home/bwithrow: not responding Nov 19 18:02:51 kyzyl /kernel: nfs server pizzahut:/home/bwithrow: is alive again I believe the server above is a NAC box, but I'm not sure. I also think that some of the other filesystems I mount are also NAC boxes, and don't seem to display this problem... I will willingly work with anyone who knows something about this, but I am lost as to what is going on. If necessary I can sniff the network. 3.0 seems so great that I can't wait to get it on-line, but this is a blocker for me, so any help will be returned with un-dying gratitude! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 08:13:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA18665 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:13:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu ([155.99.198.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18659 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:13:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) Received: from torrey.cs.utah.edu (torrey.cs.utah.edu [155.99.212.91]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23668; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:13:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from danderse@localhost) by torrey.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA25101; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:13:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:13:10 -0700 (MST) From: "David G. Andersen" To: Robert Withrow Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bwithrow@baynetworks.com Subject: Re: NFS probs with 3.0 and earlier releases. In-Reply-To: Robert Withrow's message of Fri, November 20 1998 <199811201523.KAA25723@spooky.rwwa.com> References: <199811201523.KAA25723@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13909.38017.584663.836574@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What does your AMD map look like? We've encountered this problem before when we had two virtual locations which had the same physical mount point; e.g. /home/danderse and /n/nfsserver/remote/users/danderse both had the same mount point (nfsserver:/remote/users/danderse). Accessing first /home/danderse, then /n/nfsserver/remote/users/danderse would cause nfsserver:/remote/users to be mounted over the old mountpoint, causing the behavior you're seeing. That's the only way I've seen behavior such as you're describing with AMD. -Dave Lo and Behold, Robert Withrow said: > I have a NFS interop problem in 3.0 (very severe) and some earlier > versions (2.2.7 and 2.2.6 at least, not as severe). NFS to a specific > mount seems to ocationally go deaf, but later restores itself. Other > mountpoints are unaffected. The problem is repeatable, but it > is hard to duplicate in a simple way! An example: > > All of these NFS volumes are automounted using AMD, and this includes > my home directory. I can log on using a virtual terminal at the console > and four volumes automount correctly and are accessable, including my > home directory. I can then switch to the XDM running on a different VT, > and log in and my home directory NSF mount will suddenly go deaf! Even > on the other VT. All other mountpoints are fine, and I can mount other > filesystems with no problems. Usually, after a variable amount of time, > NFS seems to get over it, and I can access the directory on both sessions. > > While this is going on, I can go to another computer and access the home > directory without problems, so I am pretty sure the server isn't hung. > > This problem seems to *only* occur when I log into an X session, and *never* > when I log into a simple VT session. > > Usually (on 2.2.6 and 2.2.7) this problem only occurs *once*. I can forcably > dis-mount the various file systems and then log in over the X session and > everything is fine. On 3.0 though, it appears that the home-directory mount > goes deaf again at later times. In the system log I get these: > > Nov 19 18:02:18 kyzyl /kernel: nfs server pizzahut:/home/bwithrow: not > responding > Nov 19 18:02:51 kyzyl /kernel: nfs server pizzahut:/home/bwithrow: is alive > again > > I believe the server above is a NAC box, but I'm not sure. I also think > that some of the other filesystems I mount are also NAC boxes, and don't > seem to display this problem... > > I will willingly work with anyone who knows something about this, but I > am lost as to what is going on. If necessary I can sniff the network. > 3.0 seems so great that I can't wait to get it on-line, but this is a > blocker for me, so any help will be returned with un-dying gratitude! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ Department of Computer Science To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 08:47:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21671 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:47:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-55.camalott.com [208.229.74.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21655 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:46:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01825; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:45:54 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Marius Bendiksen Cc: Terry Lambert , dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon), rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model References: <199811181842.KAA06180@apollo.backplane.com> <3.0.5.32.19981120103442.0099f460@mail.scancall.no> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 20 Nov 1998 10:45:53 -0600 In-Reply-To: Marius Bendiksen's message of "Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:34:42 +0100" Message-ID: <86hfvuia7y.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>> On the 386 and 486, call gates are faster. On the pentium, >>> pentium-PRO, and pentium-II, interrupts are faster. > With regards to this, might it not be a good idea to use a different > syscall convention, based on whether you've got the 486/384 options in your > kernel or not? It would require changing libc to read the kernel config file. Do we really want to mess with this? Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 08:52:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22354 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:52:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ns1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA22347 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:52:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h016b.s86b1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.1.107] (may be forged)) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/BNET-98/09/30-E) with ESMTP id IAA20463; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24558; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:51:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id LAA05821; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:51:44 -0500 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02521; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:51:36 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199811201651.LAA02521@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "David G. Andersen" cc: Robert Withrow , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM Subject: Re: NFS probs with 3.0 and earlier releases. In-Reply-To: Message from "David G. Andersen" of "Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:13:10 MST." <13909.38017.584663.836574@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:51:36 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG danderse@cs.utah.edu said: :- What does your AMD map look like? Well, the total map has something like 3000 mountpoints, spread across about 30 maps. As far as I can tell, there is only 1 mapping that mounts pizzahut:/home/bwithrow. :- We've encountered this problem before when we had two virtual :- locations which had the same physical mount point [... causing one] :- to be mounted over the old mountpoint, causing the behavior you're :- seeing. Is there some way to detect when this happens, say in the log? Also, there are about 425 mountpoints that begin with pizzahut:/home. If I first mount pizzahut:/home/bwithrow and then later cause pizzahut:/home/foo to get mounted would this cause a problem? -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 978 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 08:55:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22507 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:55:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from web1.rocketmail.com (web1.rocketmail.com [205.180.57.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA22502 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:55:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ee123@rocketmail.com) Message-ID: <19981120163916.17293.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> Received: from [195.6.247.183] by web1; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:39:16 PST Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:39:16 -0800 (PST) From: EE Reply-To: ee123@rocketmail.com Subject: Password generator To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hy, I'm looking for a password generator. Does anybody know where I can found one? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 09:14:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24361 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:14:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24356 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:14:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03704; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:14:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA18156; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:14:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:14:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811201714.JAA18156@vashon.polstra.com> To: joelh@gnu.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <86hfvuia7y.fsf@detlev.UUCP> References: <199811181842.KAA06180@apollo.backplane.com> <3.0.5.32.19981120103442.0099f460@mail.scancall.no> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <86hfvuia7y.fsf@detlev.UUCP>, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > >>> On the 386 and 486, call gates are faster. On the pentium, > >>> pentium-PRO, and pentium-II, interrupts are faster. > > With regards to this, might it not be a good idea to use a different > > syscall convention, based on whether you've got the 486/384 options in your > > kernel or not? > > It would require changing libc to read the kernel config file. Do we > really want to mess with this? Of course we don't. Nobody who cares about speed is going to use a 486. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 09:35:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26514 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:35:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu ([155.99.198.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26509 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:35:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) Received: from torrey.cs.utah.edu (torrey.cs.utah.edu [155.99.212.91]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26639; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from danderse@localhost) by torrey.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01388; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:35:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:35:20 -0700 (MST) From: "David G. Andersen" To: Robert Withrow Cc: "David G. Andersen" , Robert Withrow , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS probs with 3.0 and earlier releases. In-Reply-To: Robert Withrow's message of Fri, November 20 1998 <199811201651.LAA02521@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> References: <13909.38017.584663.836574@torrey.cs.utah.edu> <199811201651.LAA02521@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13909.42958.798280.771133@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lo and Behold, Robert Withrow said: > > danderse@cs.utah.edu said: > :- What does your AMD map look like? > > Well, the total map has something like 3000 mountpoints, spread across > about 30 maps. As far as I can tell, there is only 1 mapping that mounts > pizzahut:/home/bwithrow. That's not the problem. The problem would be another map that causes pizzahut:/home to be mounted. e.g. if your map says: /home/bwithrow ---> pizzahut:/home/bwithrow and you access /home/bwithrow, then your AMD will mount: pizzahut:/home/bwithrow on /a/pizzahut/home/bwithrow If, at a later date, you mount something else that causes pizzahut:/home on /a/pizzahut/home Then the /a/pizzahut/home/bwithrow mount will be lost, because the old 'home' in that path will be mounted under the pizzahut/home mount. > Is there some way to detect when this happens, say in the log? Sure - grep for mounts of pizzahut:/home -Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 10:31:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02413 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:31:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ogurok.com (ogurok.com [208.212.72.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02394 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:31:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oleg@ogurok.com) Received: from homepc (ppp07.pfmc.net [204.254.227.9]) by ogurok.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA08273; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:35:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from oleg@ogurok.com) Message-ID: <00e501be14b4$e2c85080$09e3fecc@homepc> From: "Oleg Ogurok" To: , Subject: Re: Password generator Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:37:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hy, >I'm looking for a password generator. >Does anybody know where I can found one? > Well, you can look into a source code of DES, Kerberos, etc. Also, download Apache sources and look into "htpasswd" source. -Oleg. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 10:38:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02979 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:38:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [195.187.243.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02972 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:38:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA09718; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:42:55 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:42:55 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Oleg Ogurok cc: ee123@rocketmail.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Password generator In-Reply-To: <00e501be14b4$e2c85080$09e3fecc@homepc> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Oleg Ogurok wrote: > > Hy, > >I'm looking for a password generator. > >Does anybody know where I can found one? > > > Well, you can look into a source code of DES, Kerberos, etc. > Also, download Apache sources and look into "htpasswd" source. Hmmm.. I think he asked about something as routines present e.g. in SCO, and used in their standard passwd(1) program - they are able to generate passwords which are pronouncable (they even give example pronounciation), but don't form any sensible word. Well, for now we don't have anything like this. Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 10:53:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04399 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:53:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ns1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04390 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:53:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h016b.s86b1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.1.107] (may be forged)) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/BNET-98/09/30-E) with ESMTP id KAA26402; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:51:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11427; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:48:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id NAA22083; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:48:25 -0500 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02845; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:48:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199811201848.NAA02845@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "David G. Andersen" cc: Robert Withrow , Robert Withrow , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS probs with 3.0 and earlier releases. In-Reply-To: Message from "David G. Andersen" of "Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:35:20 MST." <13909.42958.798280.771133@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:48:21 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG danderse@cs.utah.edu said: :- If, at a later date, you mount something else that causes :- pizzahut:/home on /a/pizzahut/home :- Then the /a/pizzahut/home/bwithrow mount will be lost, because the old :- 'home' in that path will be mounted under the pizzahut/home mount. Nope. At the time the home directory NFS mount goes deaf, there are only three NFS mounts (I also used "mount" also to verify this). bash-2.02# amq -m | grep nfs pobox:/mail /a/pobox/mail nfs 1 pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com is up pizzahut:/home/bwithrow /a/pizzahut/home/bwithrow nfs 1 pizzahut.engeast.baynetworks.com is up waterworks:/tree/local /a/waterworks/tree/local nfs 1 waterworks.engeast.baynetworks.com is up The other two are up and running, but the pizzahut one is hung. It comes back later. And, as I said before, it *was* up and running *before* I logged into XDM. Thanks for the help anyway. -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 978 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 10:54:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04489 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:54:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ogurok.com (ogurok.com [208.212.72.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04484 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:54:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oleg@ogurok.com) Received: from homepc (ppp07.pfmc.net [204.254.227.9]) by ogurok.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA08361; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:59:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from oleg@ogurok.com) Message-ID: <011601be14b8$385cdae0$09e3fecc@homepc> From: "Oleg Ogurok" To: "Andrzej Bialecki" Cc: , Subject: Re: Password generator Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:01:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Oleg Ogurok wrote: > >> > Hy, >> >I'm looking for a password generator. >> >Does anybody know where I can found one? >> > >> Well, you can look into a source code of DES, Kerberos, etc. >> Also, download Apache sources and look into "htpasswd" source. > >Hmmm.. I think he asked about something as routines present e.g. in SCO, >and used in their standard passwd(1) program - they are able to generate >passwords which are pronouncable (they even give example pronounciation), >but don't form any sensible word. > If he just need to generate random passwords, then it's really piece of cake to write that kind of program in perl or C. -Oleg. >Well, for now we don't have anything like this. > >Andrzej Bialecki > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 11:17:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05813 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:17:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05806 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:17:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21966; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:19:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:19:09 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Robert Withrow cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS probs with 3.0 and earlier releases. In-Reply-To: <199811201523.KAA25723@spooky.rwwa.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Robert Withrow wrote: > I have a NFS interop problem in 3.0 (very severe) and some earlier > versions (2.2.7 and 2.2.6 at least, not as severe). NFS to a specific > mount seems to ocationally go deaf, but later restores itself. Other > mountpoints are unaffected. The problem is repeatable, but it > is hard to duplicate in a simple way! An example: > what are your mount flags? have you tried NFS over tcp? (i'm unsure if this is the default, but it sure helped me when i explicitly enabled it) xxx:/com /com nfs -a4,rw,tcp,bg,nfsv3,-r32768,-w32768,intr 0 0 i get 9+meg/sec over 100mit ethernet with these mount options also: (from rc.local) # NFS tuning echo 'tuning NFS:' echo -n 'enabling NFS access cache: ' sysctl -w vfs.nfs.access_cache_timeout=6 echo -n 'enabling NFSv3 scatter/gather: ' sysctl -w vfs.nfs.gatherdelay_v3=10000 echo -n 'enabling NFS async behavior: ' sysctl -w vfs.nfs.async=1 # END NFS Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 11:23:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06521 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:23:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06516 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:23:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA18383; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:23:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:23:21 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199811201923.LAA18383@apollo.backplane.com> To: Marius Bendiksen Cc: Terry Lambert , tlambert@primenet.com, rnordier@nordier.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model References: <199811181842.KAA06180@apollo.backplane.com> <3.0.5.32.19981120103442.0099f460@mail.scancall.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't think this makes much sense. Why complicate an interface just to make an already slow processor go unnoticeably faster? -Matt :>> On the 386 and 486, call gates are faster. On the pentium, :pentium-PRO, :>> and pentium-II, interrupts are faster. : :With regards to this, might it not be a good idea to use a different :syscall convention, based on whether you've got the 486/384 options in your :kernel or not? (Plus an additional parameter to completely disable the :multiplexer interrupt, as this should *not* be done until you've rebuilt :everything to use the call gate interface instead ;) : :--- :Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 13:00:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16929 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:00:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from liberty.bulinfo.net (liberty.bulinfo.net [195.10.36.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA16913 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:00:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ian@bulinfo.net) Received: (qmail 40673 invoked from network); 20 Nov 1998 20:59:54 -0000 Received: from gate.bulinfo.net (195.10.36.66) by liberty.bulinfo.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 1998 20:59:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 31732 invoked from network); 20 Nov 1998 20:59:51 -0000 Received: from ppp40.bulinfo.net (HELO cserv.oksys.bg) (195.10.36.85) by gate.bulinfo.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 1998 20:59:51 -0000 Received: from cserv.oksys.bg (ian@cserv.oksys.bg [192.72.180.21]) by cserv.oksys.bg (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA12693 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:59:51 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ian@bulinfo.net) Message-ID: <3655D847.446B9B3D@bulinfo.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:59:51 +0200 From: Yani Brankov Organization: ok systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Linux emulation & Oracle for Linux Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I sent such message to freebsd-databasa but nobody replied. I tried to run Oracle 8.0.5 for Linux on FreeBSD. I found that it's okay until I tried to start some bigger application - srvmgrl, sqlplus for instance. I cant post these applications via mail because of their size, but if someone has tried this Oracle for Linux distribution, and especially if has solved (a part or everything about) this problem please - let me know. PS. the location of the dists: ftp://ftp.oracle.com/pub/www/oracle8/linux/805ship.tgz thanks in advance --ian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 13:37:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21951 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:37:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21940 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:37:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from ics.com (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id QAA24492 Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:36:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3655E0D9.9E6E4432@ics.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:36:25 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bulletproof PPP ??? References: <199811202133.QAA24259@ics.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mail Delivery Subsystem wrote: > > The original message was received at Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:33:27 -0500 (EST) > from sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 550 ... Host unknown (Name server: freebsd.com: no data known) > > > Reporting-MTA: dns; ics.com > Received-From-MTA: DNS; sunoco.ics.com > Arrival-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:33:27 -0500 (EST) > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; hackers@freebsd.com > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.2 > Remote-MTA: DNS; freebsd.com > Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:33:28 -0500 (EST) > I have "call waiting" (is it safe to assume that by now everyone knows what "call waiting" is?) on my sole phone line. Once upon a time, if I was using PPP and received an incoming phone call, the tone indicating that I had a "call waiting" was sufficient to knock down PPP and hang up the modem, allowing the incoming call to proceed. (Yes, I know about "cancel call waiting". Sometimes I really do want it to drop the line when there's an incoming call.) But in 3.0-RELEASE, PPP seems to be bulletproof. Incoming calls don't knock the connection down. Was there some change in the PPP implementation that makes it better able to recover from noise on the line? I'm still using the same modem I've had for three or four years now. Without going and looking at the committer log or having to download the 2.x sources to compare -- is there anyone who happens to know the answer to this off the top of their head? -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 14:01:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25515 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:01:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from trinity.radio-do.de (trinity.Radio-do.de [193.101.164.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25508 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:01:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fn@trinity.radio-do.de) Received: (from fn@localhost) by trinity.radio-do.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA10671 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:01:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from fn) Message-ID: <19981120230112.A10600@radio-do.de> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:01:12 +0100 From: Frank Nobis To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Password generator References: <00e501be14b4$e2c85080$09e3fecc@homepc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=azLHFNyN32YCQGCU X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Andrzej Bialecki on Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 07:42:55PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 07:42:55PM +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Oleg Ogurok wrote: > > > > Hy, > > >I'm looking for a password generator. > > >Does anybody know where I can found one? > > > > > Well, you can look into a source code of DES, Kerberos, etc. > > Also, download Apache sources and look into "htpasswd" source. > > Hmmm.. I think he asked about something as routines present e.g. in SCO, > and used in their standard passwd(1) program - they are able to generate > passwords which are pronouncable (they even give example pronounciation), > but don't form any sensible word. > > Well, for now we don't have anything like this. > I have attached a simple source of such a password generator. I don't no where I first got it, but here it is. Regards Frank -- Frank Nobis Email: PGP AVAILABLE Landgrafenstr. 130 dg3dcn http://www.radio-do.de/~fn/ 44139 Dortmund Powered by SMP FreeBSD --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pwgen.c" /* * Generate (hopefully) pronounceable random passwords. These can often be * remembered more easily than completely random passwords, and are immune to * dictionary searches, etc. * * The original version of this program was written in BASIC on an OSI * Superboard II SBC. That version is long gone (the SB2's cassette drive * was never trustworthy, it eventually scrambled the tape), but the basic * (pardon the pun) idea lives on here, with a few modification like basing * the selection on "graphs" (actually, they are a restricted set of phonemes) * and having randomly-selected spellings for those graphs. */ #include #include #include #include #include #include /* #define RANDOM(c) ((int) (rand(c) / 32767.0 * (c))) */ #ifdef linux #define RANDOM(c) ((int) (((random() & 0x7fffffff) / 2147483648.0) * (c))) #else #define RANDOM(c) ((int) (((random(c) & 0x7fff) / 32767.0) * (c))) #endif char *spelling[] = { /*a*/ "a", (char *) 0, /* 2*/ /*A*/ "a", "ae", "ai", (char *) 0, /* 6*/ /*b*/ "b", (char *) 0, /* 8*/ /*ch*/ "ch", (char *) 0, /*10*/ /*d*/ "d", (char *) 0, /*12*/ /*e*/ "e", (char *) 0, /*14*/ /*E*/ "e", "ee", "ie", (char *) 0, /*18*/ /*f*/ "f", "ph", "gh", (char *) 0, /*22*/ /*g*/ "g", (char *) 0, /*24*/ /*h*/ "h", (char *) 0, /*26*/ /*i*/ "i", "e", (char *) 0, /*29*/ /*I*/ "i", "ai", (char *) 0, /*32*/ /*i'*/ "i", "ei", (char *) 0, /*35*/ /*j*/ "j", "g", (char *) 0, /*38*/ /*k*/ "k", "c", (char *) 0, /*41*/ /*l*/ "l", (char *) 0, /*43*/ /*m*/ "m", (char *) 0, /*45*/ /*n*/ "n", (char *) 0, /*47*/ /*ng*/ "ng", (char *) 0, /*49*/ /*o*/ "o", "a", "ah", (char *) 0, /*53*/ /*O*/ "o", "oh", (char *) 0, /*56*/ /*oo*/ "oo", "u", (char *) 0, /*59*/ /*OO*/ "oo", "w", (char *) 0, /*62*/ /*p*/ "p", (char *) 0, /*64*/ /*qu*/ "qu", (char *) 0, /*66*/ /*r*/ "r", (char *) 0, /*68*/ /*s*/ "s", "c", (char *) 0, /*71*/ /*sh*/ "sh", "s", (char *) 0, /*74*/ /*t*/ "t", (char *) 0, /*76*/ /*th*/ "th", (char *) 0, /*78*/ /*TH*/ "th", (char *) 0, /*80*/ /*u*/ "u", (char *) 0, /*82*/ /*U*/ "u", "oo", (char *) 0, /*85*/ /*v*/ "v", (char *) 0, /*87*/ /*x*/ "x", (char *) 0, /*89*/ /*y*/ "y", (char *) 0, /*91*/ /*z*/ "z", "s", (char *) 0, /*94*/ }; struct graph { char *graph; char type; #define CONSONANT 0 #define VOWEL_LONG 1 #define VOWEL_SHORT 2 #define VOWEL_OTHER 3 #define VOWEL_MASK 3 #define iscons(c) (((c)->type & VOWEL_MASK) == 0) #define isvowel(c) (((c)->type & VOWEL_MASK) != 0) /* char frequency; */ /* unused for now */ char **spellings; /* struct graph **following; */ /* maybe later */ } graph[] = { {"a", VOWEL_SHORT, &spelling[0]}, {"A", VOWEL_LONG, &spelling[2]}, {"b", CONSONANT, &spelling[6]}, {"ch", CONSONANT, &spelling[8]}, {"d", CONSONANT, &spelling[10]}, {"e", VOWEL_SHORT, &spelling[12]}, {"E", VOWEL_LONG, &spelling[14]}, {"f", CONSONANT, &spelling[18]}, {"g", CONSONANT, &spelling[22]}, {"h", CONSONANT, &spelling[24]}, {"i", VOWEL_SHORT, &spelling[26]}, {"I", VOWEL_LONG, &spelling[29]}, {"i'", VOWEL_OTHER, &spelling[32]}, {"j", CONSONANT, &spelling[35]}, {"k", CONSONANT, &spelling[38]}, {"l", CONSONANT, &spelling[41]}, {"m", CONSONANT, &spelling[43]}, {"n", CONSONANT, &spelling[45]}, {"ng", CONSONANT, &spelling[47]}, {"o", VOWEL_SHORT, &spelling[49]}, {"O", VOWEL_LONG, &spelling[53]}, {"oo", VOWEL_SHORT, &spelling[56]}, {"OO", VOWEL_LONG, &spelling[59]}, {"p", CONSONANT, &spelling[62]}, {"qu", CONSONANT, &spelling[64]}, {"r", CONSONANT, &spelling[66]}, {"s", CONSONANT, &spelling[68]}, {"sh", CONSONANT, &spelling[71]}, {"t", CONSONANT, &spelling[74]}, {"th", CONSONANT, &spelling[76]}, {"TH", CONSONANT, &spelling[78]}, {"u", VOWEL_SHORT, &spelling[80]}, {"U", VOWEL_LONG, &spelling[82]}, {"v", CONSONANT, &spelling[85]}, {"x", CONSONANT, &spelling[87]}, {"y", CONSONANT, &spelling[89]}, {"z", CONSONANT, &spelling[91]}, {0, 0, &spelling[94]}, }; struct graph *vowel[] = { &graph[0], &graph[1], &graph[5], &graph[6], &graph[10], &graph[11], &graph[12], &graph[19], &graph[20], &graph[21], &graph[22], &graph[30], &graph[31], (struct graph *) 0, }; struct graph *consonant[] = { &graph[2], &graph[3], &graph[4], &graph[7], &graph[8], &graph[9], &graph[13], &graph[14], &graph[15], &graph[16], &graph[17], &graph[18], &graph[23], &graph[24], &graph[25], &graph[26], &graph[27], &graph[28], &graph[29], &graph[32], &graph[33], &graph[34], &graph[35], (struct graph *) 0, }; /* * Randomly select a graph from the specifield array. Eventually, this should * account for graph frequencies as well. */ struct graph *selgraph(graphs) struct graph **graphs; { register int cnt; for (cnt = 0; graphs[cnt] != (struct graph *) 0; cnt++) ; return graphs[RANDOM(cnt)]; } /* * Randomly select a spelling for the specified graph. This is not linear: * earlier spellings are preferred over later ones, but the latter do * sometimes sneak in. */ char *selspell(graph) struct graph *graph; { register int cnt, sel; for (cnt = 0; graph->spellings[cnt] != (char *) 0; cnt++) ; if (cnt == 0) { fprintf(stderr, "PANIC: selspell(%s) got count(spellings) == 0\n", graph->graph); exit(2); } if (cnt == 1) return *graph->spellings; /* * This may not be the best way to do it... maybe Weemba'd care to lend a * hand here? After all, my specialty is programming, NOT math. */ if ((sel = cnt - (int) sqrt((double) RANDOM(cnt * cnt) + 1) - 1) < 0 || sel >= cnt) { #ifdef BUGCATCH fprintf(stderr, "PANIC: selspell(%s) got nlrand(%d) == %d\n", graph->graph, cnt, sel); exit(2); #else sel = 0; #endif } return graph->spellings[sel]; } /* * Choose the next source for a graph. The rules are: a consonant MUST be * followed by a vowel; a vowel may be followed by a vowel of a different * type or by a consonant, but never more than two consecutive vowel graphs. */ char choosenext(cur, prev) { if (cur == CONSONANT) return VOWEL_MASK; else if (prev == -1 || (prev & VOWEL_MASK) != 0) return CONSONANT; else if (RANDOM(10) == 5) return VOWEL_MASK; else return CONSONANT; } /* * We are passed an array of (struct graph *); choose an entry randomly and * assemble a string fitting the size constraint. We use the original (OSI) * paradigm: alternate consonants and vowels, with the option of two vowels * in a row occasionally. The only difference is that they must be different * *types* of vowels, a distinction that the OSI version didn't consider. */ void pwgen(initial, pw, maxlen) struct graph **initial; char *pw; { int pwlen, state, prev, tmp; struct graph *graph; char *spelling; pwlen = 0; state = initial[0]->type; prev = -1; while (pwlen < maxlen - 1) { do { graph = selgraph(initial); } while (state != CONSONANT && graph->type == prev); if ((spelling = selspell(graph)) == (char *) 0) { fprintf(stderr, "PANIC: got NULL in selspell(%s)\n", graph->graph); exit(2); } strcpy(pw, spelling); while (*pw != '\0') pwlen++, pw++; tmp = prev; prev = graph->type; if ((state = choosenext(prev, tmp)) == CONSONANT) initial = consonant; else initial = vowel; } } int main(argc, argv) char **argv; { int cnt, len; char buf[20]; if (argc < 2 || argc > 3) { fprintf(stderr, "usage: %s length [count]\n", argv[0]); exit(1); } if ((len = atoi(argv[1])) < 4 || len > 16) { fprintf(stderr, "%s: invalid length %s\n", argv[0], argv[1]); exit(1); } if (argc == 2) cnt = 1; else if ((cnt = atoi(argv[2])) < 1) { fprintf(stderr, "%s: invalid count %s\n", argv[0], argv[2]); exit(1); } srandom(time(0) + (getpgrp() << 8) + getpid()); while (cnt-- != 0) { pwgen((RANDOM(10) < 4? vowel: consonant), buf, len); printf("%s\n", buf); } exit(0); } --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 14:16:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27078 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:16:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27071 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:16:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA01332; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:20:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199811202220.OAA01332@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Password generator In-Reply-To: <19981120230112.A10600@radio-do.de> from Frank Nobis at "Nov 20, 1998 11: 1:12 pm" To: fn@radio-do.de (Frank Nobis) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:20:11 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Frank Nobis: > On Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 07:42:55PM +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > > On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Oleg Ogurok wrote: > > > > > > Hy, > > > >I'm looking for a password generator. > > > >Does anybody know where I can found one? > > > > > > > Well, you can look into a source code of DES, Kerberos, etc. > > > Also, download Apache sources and look into "htpasswd" source. > > > > Hmmm.. I think he asked about something as routines present e.g. in SCO, > > and used in their standard passwd(1) program - they are able to generate > > passwords which are pronouncable (they even give example pronounciation), > > but don't form any sensible word. > > > > Well, for now we don't have anything like this. > > > I have attached a simple source of such a password generator. > > I don't no where I first got it, but here it is. > Yuck. No capital letters. No special characters. No numbers. This limits your search space. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 14:20:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27615 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:20:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-33.camalott.com [208.229.74.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27593 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:20:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA16197; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:19:27 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: Oleg Ogurok , ee123@rocketmail.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Password generator References: From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 20 Nov 1998 16:19:24 -0600 In-Reply-To: Andrzej Bialecki's message of "Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:42:55 +0100 (CET)" Message-ID: <86n25mdn2q.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 32 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>> I'm looking for a password generator. >>> Does anybody know where I can found one? >> Well, you can look into a source code of DES, Kerberos, etc. >> Also, download Apache sources and look into "htpasswd" source. > Hmmm.. I think he asked about something as routines present e.g. in SCO, > and used in their standard passwd(1) program - they are able to generate > passwords which are pronouncable (they even give example pronounciation), > but don't form any sensible word. > Well, for now we don't have anything like this. A common algorithm is to alternate consanant sounds and vowel sounds. Usually a symbol or digit (or two) are thrown in somewhere. More detail is in the literature. I don't think that npasswd (http://www.utexas.edu/cc/unix/software/npasswd) has a password generator, although it's in general a decent password screener. passwd+ (ftp://ftp.dartmouth.edu/pub/security/) is also frequently recommended. I'll also point you at Mangle (ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/pub/utilities/pwtest/), which does more pertubations on passwords than most. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 14:23:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27937 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:23:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-33.camalott.com [208.229.74.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27928 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:23:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA16203; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:22:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bulletproof PPP ??? References: <199811202133.QAA24259@ics.com> <3655E0D9.9E6E4432@ics.com> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 20 Nov 1998 16:22:05 -0600 In-Reply-To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY"'s message of "Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:36:25 -0500" Message-ID: <86lnl6dmya.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Was there some change in the PPP implementation that makes it better > able to recover from noise on the line? I'm still using the same modem > I've had for three or four years now. ppp, by default, has no direct control over this. The modem is responsible for maintaining carrier. Check your init strings. (Possibly the default init string in /etc/ppp/ppp.conf changed at some point, or your ISP changed their configuration.) S10 (measured in tenths of a second) controls how long of a loss of carrier is tolerated. 14 (1.4 sec) is a common value. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 14:43:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00224 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:43:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00219 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:43:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28691; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:39:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:39:54 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bulletproof PPP ??? In-Reply-To: <3655E0D9.9E6E4432@ics.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > I have "call waiting" (is it safe to assume that by now everyone knows > what "call waiting" is?) on my sole phone line. Once upon a time, if I > was using PPP and received an incoming phone call, the tone indicating > that I had a "call waiting" was sufficient to knock down PPP and hang > up the modem, allowing the incoming call to proceed. (Yes, I know about > "cancel call waiting". Sometimes I really do want it to drop the line > when there's an incoming call.) > > But in 3.0-RELEASE, PPP seems to be bulletproof. Incoming calls don't > knock the connection down. > > Was there some change in the PPP implementation that makes it better > able to recover from noise on the line? I'm still using the same modem > I've had for three or four years now. > > Without going and looking at the committer log or having to download the > 2.x sources to compare -- is there anyone who happens to know the answer > to this off the top of their head? Have you made any updates to your ppp.conf file? I have a dedicated line for my ppp, but I know my friends (who mostly don't) and have to deal with the tone, do it by prepending a * (star) code, *70, into their dial string, which disables call waiting for the duration of the call. If you use dial pulse (I suppose there must be SOME place in America that still uses it) you use 1170 instead of *70. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 15:17:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04996 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:17:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from joshua.enteract.com (joshua.enteract.com [207.229.129.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA04991 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:17:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from djhoward@joshua.enteract.com) Received: (qmail 7056 invoked by uid 1032); 20 Nov 1998 23:17:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19981120171714.P14320@enteract.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:17:14 -0600 From: dannyman To: ee123@rocketmail.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Password generator References: <19981120163916.17293.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981120163916.17293.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com>; from EE on Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 08:39:16AM -0800 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 08:39:16AM -0800, EE wrote: > Hy, > I'm looking for a password generator. > Does anybody know where I can found one? Perl code snippet: sub get_password { my @ary = ( 0 .. 9, 'A' .. 'Z', 'a' .. 'z', 'z', '!', '$', '%'); my $password; my $pw_len = rand(5)+6; for(1..$pw_len) { $password .= $ary[rand(@ary)]; } return $password; } This is actually a labotomised function call that's part of a script I wrote to add users to our system. It generates a random password if the user doesn't supply one. -danny -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 15:26:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06159 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:26:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o2.cs.rpi.edu (o2.cs.rpi.edu [128.113.96.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06153 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:26:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crossd@o2.cs.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (crossd@localhost) by o2.cs.rpi.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA15792; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:26:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:26:05 -0500 From: "David E. Cross" To: Chuck Robey cc: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bulletproof PPP ??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > ... > > But in 3.0-RELEASE, PPP seems to be bulletproof. Incoming calls don't > > knock the connection down. > > > > Was there some change in the PPP implementation that makes it better > > able to recover from noise on the line? I'm still using the same modem > > I've had for three or four years now. Dropping the connection is usually a function of the modem itself, not the PPP software. Newer modems ten to be *mch* better about NOT dropping the connection when a call waiting tone comes on. Was your modem, or the modem you were dialing to upgraded recently? Another possibility is that that the new ppp.conf has options to auto supress call-waiting (previously mentioned), or has options which tell the modem to try harder to renegotiate. Can you try backing out to the old version of FreeBSD to try it? -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 15:38:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07789 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:38:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.safemail.com (ns2.safemail.com [204.89.219.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07782 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:38:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from support@safemail.com) Received: from thinkpad.safemail.com (ns4.safemail.com [204.89.219.4]) by ns2.safemail.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA02763 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:34:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <075e01be14de$99685780$04db59cc@thinkpad.safemail.com> Reply-To: "safemail.support" From: "safemail.support" To: Subject: Re: Changing the load address of the kernel? Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:36:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i tried the same and got no response except for windoze support... please email me any info if you would... tia tinker ...william.o.yates...owner...safemail.internet.services...tinker@safemail.com...bus.408.778.5570...3615.jackson.oaks.court...morgan. hill...california...united.states...95037... -----Original Message----- From: Oliver Fromme Newsgroups: muc.lists.freebsd.hackers,mpc.lists.freebsd.hackers Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 3:25 AM Subject: Changing the load address of the kernel? Hi, After posting this to freebsd-questions I realized that it's probably much better suited for -hackers. I'm sorry for the double posting. I'm trying to change the load address of the kernel, but without success. The default seems to be f0100000 (causing the bootloader to load it at 00100000). I tried to change it to f0400000. I changed the load address in two files: /sys/i386/conf/Makefile.i386 (one line) /sys/kern/link_aout.c (two lines) The bootloader (I'm using rawboot from a floppy) correctly loads the kernel to 00400000, but it hangs right after that. Did I miss anything? Any help would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I'm using a 3.0-19981103-SNAP with ELF userland and aout kernel. I searched the mailing list archives on this topic, but without success. Background of the problem: I'm trying to boot a diskless computer with a network boot ROM by LanWorks (www.lanworks.com). They require to make a bootable floppy first, then put an image of that floppy on a tftp server. The ROM loads that image, makes a RAM disk from it and boots it. The problem is: That RAM disks seems to overlap with the kernel at 00100000. There doesn't seem to be a way to change the location of the RAM disk. BTW, I also tried to contact InCom (www.incom.de) for boot ROMs, but they're completely unresponsive. The demo version that they offer is from 1995 and doesn't seem to support any PCI FastEthernet cards. :-( Regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18/61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 15:51:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08880 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:51:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beatrice.rutgers.edu (beatrice.rutgers.edu [165.230.209.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08872 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:51:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu) Received: (from easmith@localhost) by beatrice.rutgers.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA05105; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:50:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Allen Smith" Message-Id: <9811201850.ZM5103@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:50:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: dannyman "Re: Password generator" (Nov 20, 6:21pm) References: <19981120163916.17293.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> <19981120171714.P14320@enteract.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: dannyman , ee123@rocketmail.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Password generator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Nov 20, 6:21pm, dannyman (possibly) wrote: > On Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 08:39:16AM -0800, EE wrote: > > Hy, > > I'm looking for a password generator. > > Does anybody know where I can found one? > > Perl code snippet: > > sub get_password { > my @ary = ( 0 .. 9, 'A' .. 'Z', 'a' .. 'z', 'z', '!', '$', '%'); > my $password; > my $pw_len = rand(5)+6; > for(1..$pw_len) { > $password .= $ary[rand(@ary)]; > } > return $password; > } > > This is actually a labotomised function call that's part of a script I wrote > to add users to our system. It generates a random password if the user > doesn't supply one. IIRC, the original requestor was wanting one that would produce _pronouceable_ passwords. I don't have one, but the following is an improved version of the above (written for about the same purpose): use MD5; sub makepass { my($string,$stringinit,$tmpfile) = ('','',''); unless (defined($tmpdir) && (-w $tmpdir) && (-d $tmpdir)) { $tmpdir = &tmpdir(); } my($string2) = ''; while (length($string) < 8) { until (($tmpfile ne '') && (-e $tmpfile) && ($? == 0)) { while (($tmpfile eq "") || (-e $tmpfile)) { $tmpfile = $tmpdir . "/" . "randpass" . int(rand(10000)); } `$pgp +makerandom=48 $tmpfile >/dev/null 2>/dev/null`; if (($? != 0) && (-e $tmpfile)) { unlink $tmpfile; } } open(PGP, $tmpfile) || (die "Can't open $tmpfile: $!\n"); unlink $tmpfile; $context = new MD5; $context->reset(); $context->addfile(PGP); $stringinit = $context->digest(); $stringinit = substr($stringinit,0,int(length($stringinit)/2)) ^ substr($stringinit,int(length($stringinit)/2),length($stringinit)); if (length($string2) > 0) { foreach $character1 (split(/.*/,$string2)) { my($new_stringinit) = ''; foreach $character2 (split(/.*/,$stringinit)) { $new_stringinit .= $character1 ^ $character2; } $stringinit = $new_stringinit; } $string2 = ''; } for ($i = 0; $i <= length($stringinit); $i++) { my($stringchar) = ord(substr($stringinit,$i,1)); if ($stringchar > 94) # 188 = int (2**8 / 94) * 94; by Peter da Silva { $string2 .= substr($stringinit,$i,1); } else { $stringchar = ($stringchar % 94) + 33; $string .= chr($stringchar); } } $string2 .= $string; $string =~ tr/-a-zA-Z2-9=[]\\;,.\/~!@\#$%^&*()+{}|:""<>?//cd; $string2 =~ tr/-a-zA-Z2-9=[]\\;,.\/~!@\#$%^&*()+{}|:""<>?//d; } if (length($string . $string2) > 8) { my($number) = rand(32768); foreach $character (split(/.*/,substr(($string . $string2),8))) { $number ^= ord($character); } srand($number); # yes, this may very well call srand multiple times... one reason for inc rand in it } close PGP; return substr($string,0,8); } You'll need to put in a new way to get a secure temporary directory (&tmpdir()) calls a perl module that I'm still working on getting into publishable form) and have a copy of pgp around (and with $pgp equalling its location). -Allen -- Allen Smith easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 15:57:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09351 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:57:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from backup.af.speednet.com.au (af.speednet.com.au [202.135.206.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09346 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:57:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andyf@speednet.com.au) Received: from localhost (andyf@localhost) by backup.af.speednet.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06877; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:55:53 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: backup.zippynet.iol.net.au: andyf owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:55:53 +1100 (EST) From: Andy Farkas X-Sender: andyf@backup.zippynet.iol.net.au To: John Polstra cc: joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on i386 memory model In-Reply-To: <199811201714.JAA18156@vashon.polstra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, John Polstra wrote: > Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > >>> On the 386 and 486, call gates are faster. On the pentium, > > >>> pentium-PRO, and pentium-II, interrupts are faster. > > > With regards to this, might it not be a good idea to use a different > > > syscall convention, based on whether you've got the 486/384 options in your > > > kernel or not? > > > > It would require changing libc to read the kernel config file. Do we > > really want to mess with this? > > Of course we don't. Nobody who cares about speed is going to use a 486. > > John Hey...I resent that! My 486 has been hummin' along for several years at a leiserly 66MHz. I care about speed, its just that I ain't got none! - cracks rc5 at a steady 55K keys/sec :-) -- :{ andyf@speednet.com.au Andy Farkas System Administrator Speed Internet Services http://www.speednet.com.au/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 17:20:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17652 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:20:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from timingpdc.timing.com (timingpdc.timing.com [208.203.137.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17643 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:20:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chanders@timing.com) Received: from count.timing.com ([208.203.137.222]) by timingpdc.timing.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 103-49575U100L2S100) with ESMTP id AAA303; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:22:14 -0700 Received: from count.timing.com (chanders@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by count.timing.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05732; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:20:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199811210120.SAA05732@count.timing.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: chanders@timing.com Subject: reading socket in thread busy loops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:20:20 -0700 From: chanders@timing.com (Craig Anderson) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My attempts to block on a socket read cause the thread library to go into a spin loop. I believe the socket fd is explicitly set to blocking mode, but I'm not positive I'm setting things up properly. Can anyone familiar with the threads library tell me how to get blocking behavior? I'm running FreeBSD 2.2.6. Thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 17:28:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18952 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:28:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zephyr.cybercom.net (zephyr.cybercom.net [209.21.146.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18947 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:28:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhuff@cybercom.net) Received: from shell1.cybercom.net (rhuff@shell1.cybercom.net [209.21.136.6]) by zephyr.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08444 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:27:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rhuff@localhost) by shell1.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA00154; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:27:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:27:43 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Huff Message-Id: <199811210127.UAA00154@shell1.cybercom.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: infinite loop in netscape... In-Reply-To: <101955155@toto.iv> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jukka A. Ukkonen writes: > Does anyone have any idea why netscape-4.5 (the native FreeBSD > binary) ends up busy looping like this... (ktrace/kdump output) It's not Netscape - I've been running 4.5b native almost since it was released, and it's chugging away. Robert Huff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 17:42:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20678 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:42:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mindy.accesscom.com (ns2.accesscom.com [205.226.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20672 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:42:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sabrina@shell.accesscom.com) Received: from shell.accesscom.com (sabrina@shell.accesscom.com [205.226.156.10]) by mindy.accesscom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA29514 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:42:21 -0800 Received: (from sabrina@localhost) by shell.accesscom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id RAA06392 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:42:21 -0800 From: Sabrina Minshall Message-Id: <199811210142.RAA06392@shell.accesscom.com> Subject: Availability of FREEBSD 3.0 in San Jose To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:42:21 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, any place where 3.0R is sold in San Jose? sabrina To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 17:42:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20697 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:42:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o2.cs.rpi.edu (o2.cs.rpi.edu [128.113.96.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20684 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:42:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crossd@o2.cs.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (crossd@localhost) by o2.cs.rpi.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA16650; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:42:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:41:54 -0500 From: "David E. Cross" To: Allen Smith cc: dannyman , ee123@rocketmail.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Password generator In-Reply-To: <9811201850.ZM5103@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Allen Smith wrote: > On Nov 20, 6:21pm, dannyman (possibly) wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 08:39:16AM -0800, EE wrote: > > > Hy, > > > I'm looking for a password generator. > > > Does anybody know where I can found one? > > > > ... > > > > This is actually a labotomised function call that's part of a script I wrote > > to add users to our system. It generates a random password if the user > > doesn't supply one. > > IIRC, the original requestor was wanting one that would produce > _pronouceable_ passwords. I don't have one, but the following is an > improved version of the above (written for about the same purpose): There is actaully a standard for doing this, FIPS-181. You can get a version of this, fully implimented in C at the following: http://192.35.156.12/ After filling that out choose 'ENTER THE ARCHIVE HERE', once there choose 'FIPS181'. Have fun, that program could use some work, but it is an excellent start. -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 18:11:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24527 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:11:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24518 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:11:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA27074; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:15:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199811210215.NAA27074@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: reading socket in thread busy loops In-Reply-To: <199811210120.SAA05732@count.timing.com> from Craig Anderson at "Nov 20, 98 06:20:20 pm" To: chanders@timing.com (Craig Anderson) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:15:09 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chanders@timing.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Craig Anderson wrote: > My attempts to block on a socket read cause the > thread library to go into a spin loop. I believe > the socket fd is explicitly set to blocking mode, > but I'm not positive I'm setting things up properly. > Can anyone familiar with the threads library tell me > how to get blocking behavior? I'm running FreeBSD 2.2.6. Sounds like you are linking libc before libc_r. On 2.2.6, you should use the -nostdlib arg to gcc to prevent it linking against libc. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 18:29:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26720 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:29:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26715 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:29:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00439; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:28:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199811210228.SAA00439@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Sabrina Minshall cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Availability of FREEBSD 3.0 in San Jose In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:42:21 PST." <199811210142.RAA06392@shell.accesscom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:28:56 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Try Central Computers on Stevens Creek. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 18:57:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29460 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:57:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29455 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:57:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00637 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:57:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199811210257.SAA00637@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SDSL in Silicon Valley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:57:06 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I upgraded my net connection from 128kb isdn line to 416kb SDSL line provided by http://www.dspeed.net. Currently, I am paying $170 flat fee and that includes telco charges and isp charges for my sdsl line or about 50% less than what I was paying for my 128kb isdn line. My router is a FlowPoint/2200 SDSL [CM] Router which cost me $490. The router has four ether ports very nice - it saves me the expense of having an ether hub. dspeed.net also provides mbone connectivity and above.net the upstream provider has good mbone connectivity. Enjoy, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 19:04:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00212 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:04:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00206 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:04:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05971; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:04:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19981120190404.A5965@mooseriver.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:04:04 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Sabrina Minshall , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Availability of FREEBSD 3.0 in San Jose Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <199811210142.RAA06392@shell.accesscom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811210142.RAA06392@shell.accesscom.com>; from Sabrina Minshall on Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 05:42:21PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 05:42:21PM -0800, Sabrina Minshall wrote: > Hello, > any place where 3.0R is sold in San Jose? The FreeBSD Retail page (http://www.bafug.org/Retail.html) lists several places in the Silicon Valley that sells FreeBSD. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 19:08:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00616 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:08:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00609 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA01012; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:07:39 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma001010; Fri, 20 Nov 98 21:07:32 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost.nectar.com [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA16420; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:07:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199811210307.VAA16420@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <199811210257.SAA00637@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199811210257.SAA00637@rah.star-gate.com> Subject: Re: SDSL in Silicon Valley To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:07:31 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [sorry so off-topic, but I had to respond] !! And to think that sometimes I believe that we're in a backwater down in New Orleans... About two months ago I gave up my 128kbps ISDN line for an ADSL line (256kbps upstream, 1536kbps downstream). The ISDN line had cost me $80/mo from BellSouth, and (if I would have been paying) $30/mo from my ISP. Now, I pay nothing to BellSouth, and (if I had to pay, I would be) paying my ISP $60/mo. My ADSL router was free (though it doesn't have a built-in hub). I would have expected better connectivity options in the Bay Area! Cheers, Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org On 20 November 1998 at 18:57, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I upgraded my net connection from 128kb isdn line to 416kb SDSL line provided > by http://www.dspeed.net. Currently, I am paying $170 flat fee and that > includes telco charges and isp charges for my sdsl line or about 50% less > than what I was paying for my 128kb isdn line. > > My router is a FlowPoint/2200 SDSL [CM] Router which cost me $490. > The router has four ether ports very nice - it saves me the expense > of having an ether hub. > > dspeed.net also provides mbone connectivity and above.net the upstream > provider has good mbone connectivity. > > Enjoy, > Amancio -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNlYuczeRhT8JRySpAQHQwwQAuDlFwE7NRctgwDKjpZ4D+rd9On0i3bJk 6MmWQ3uMeTGYGh8M+VMqk++ra/vTrSs0+rPnDel6bOYcBmuOfa2USDpOtfsJWUmi 3BZQmE/TqGJH22BI30oZTiBjNZDb+fOCgWBoNR6ZgmfJphpFNmhK4oPUDwrONwFA Y5dWgMTzRrQ= =w2jr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 19:15:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01380 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:15:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01373 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:15:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00761; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:14:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199811210314.TAA00761@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jacques Vidrine cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SDSL in Silicon Valley In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:07:31 CST." <199811210307.VAA16420@spawn.nectar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:14:36 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi , When it comes to net home deployment or even sometimes net business deployment we are "country-style" living 8) Situation should change over the next few months with cable deployment. I tried to subscribe to TCI Net however I was told that they were not ready for deployment in Sunnyvale and they were going to charge me less than $50/month for 500kb upstream and up to 3mb downstream. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 20 19:36:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03024 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:36:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03019 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:36:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22320; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd022267; Fri Nov 20 20:35:57 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA09506; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:35:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811210335.UAA09506@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SYSV Semaphores & mmap problems To: DBECK@ludens.elte.hu (David Beck) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 03:35:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "David Beck" at Nov 20, 98 10:00:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I ran into two problems with FreeBSD: > > > 1., If I create a program with a few threads and then I block > > > one thread with a SYSV semaphore, then it blocks all threads. > > > Any ideas ? > > > > Use a mutex instead. SYSV semaphores are not process reentrant > > (they're semaphores). Neither are pthreads mutexes, but at > > least you will only block threads wanting the mutex instead of > > all threads. > > Yep. The problem is to control access to a shared memory segment > between unrelated processes and in the same time the server process > actually is a multithreaded process. Use fcntl(2) based locks. Preferrably against an mmap'ed file as the shared memory region instead of a SYSV shared memory region, to avoid using up kernel virtual address space. Alternately, someone need to write a non-blocking version of the system call and implement call conversion in a (new) libipc_r. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 21 01:28:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26199 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:28:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles343.castles.com [208.214.167.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26181; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:28:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00363; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:10:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811210510.VAA00363@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Kaleb Keithley cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linksys NIC, was: Re: de ethernet driver -- another puzzle In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:51:08 EST." <199811190151.UAA29625@sunoco> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:10:11 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Thanks to hints from Wilco Bulte, Scott Gasch, and Martin ???, plus a few > printfs sprinkled liberally about .../pci/if_de.c, I've determined that > this particular Linksys EtherPCI LAN Card II that I have wants the ed0 > driver, not the de0 driver as the Handbook and FAQ suggest. > > I also now know why the de probe doesn't print out a message when the > probe fails. Which is not to say that I think that's good. On the > contrary, I think it's bad. C'est la vie. Printing out an error message when a PCI match fails would be stupid; every PCI device is (currently) presented to every PCI driver until one claims it. Printing a message when the match failed ("no, not for me") would produce a useless spew of garbage. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 21 04:40:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA09772 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 04:40:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m2-28-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA09762 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 04:40:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA00989; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:38:39 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199811211238.OAA00989@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: Getting PID of parent pipe? In-Reply-To: <36555721.8E3D2CDF@tdx.co.uk> from Karl Pielorz at "Nov 20, 98 11:48:49 am" To: kpielorz@tdx.co.uk (Karl Pielorz) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:38:37 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Pielorz wrote: > Is there an 'easy' way of getting the PID of a parent process feeding a > command's stdin? > > e.g. > > cat something | foo | bar You can use getppid(2). But the answer will be the PID of the shell, in this instance. > > I need to get the PID of foo while running as bar... The problem is that foo is not the parent of bar in your example. The parent is the process that does the fork(2). If foo does exec bar itself (ie. somewhat like xargs): cat something | foo bar then getppid() will work. Given the PID of bar, the PID of foo will be more or less predictable, so you may be able to get by using (ps plus grep plus) heuristics. Otherwise, this should entail doing something similar to the fstat(1) logic. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 21 09:44:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01597 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:44:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01592 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:43:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA06640 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:43:25 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma006638; Sat, 21 Nov 98 11:43:24 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost.nectar.com [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA19220 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:43:24 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199811211743.LAA19220@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine Subject: munging or removing DT_SONAME To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:43:24 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi folks, Anyone know of a way to change the value of DT_SONAME in a shared library binary? Or of removing it completely? For ELF, ports/xforms installs libxforms.so.0 from a binary distribution. Unfortunately, libxforms.so.0 has DT_SONAME=libforms.so.0.88, requiring a (IMHO bogus) symlink libforms.so.0.88 -> libxforms.so.0 in order for ld-elf.so to find it. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNlb7uzeRhT8JRySpAQEMRgP/UKUKkIThhc0jxSplrjCqJDlGMnan8eYF liNoppDnHGlLvCiidlBijLlqzh6uGD36kzvqokAT3glcIWblSNw+MkT3vyTkDn52 Bh9OWIGXX7kz2GI/NWCTnsypyj01MYYmQ5vFRM7z53NatpXz6gQWgu5UCwNCytCh 9FPBFMudUNY= =4sC9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 21 11:07:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10776 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:07:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10768 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:07:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10310; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:07:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA26386; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:07:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:07:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811211907.LAA26386@vashon.polstra.com> To: n@nectar.com Subject: Re: munging or removing DT_SONAME Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199811211743.LAA19220@spawn.nectar.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199811211743.LAA19220@spawn.nectar.com>, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > Anyone know of a way to change the value of DT_SONAME in a shared > library binary? Or of removing it completely? > > For ELF, ports/xforms installs libxforms.so.0 from a binary > distribution. Unfortunately, libxforms.so.0 has > DT_SONAME=libforms.so.0.88, requiring a (IMHO bogus) symlink > libforms.so.0.88 -> libxforms.so.0 in order for ld-elf.so to > find it. The best thing to do would be to find out who built the library, and ask him to make a new one with the correct soname. Barring that, I suppose you could fix the file with emacs "hexl" mode or with some other binary editor. The strings are null-terminated. Just find the ".88" and glom a 0 byte on top of the ".". But really, it would be much better to ask for the library to be rebuilt. Otherwise the problem just comes back with the next version. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 21 16:30:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08726 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:30:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08719 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:30:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from [158.152.46.40] (helo=ragnet.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.053 #1) id 0zhNQ0-0001hH-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:30:24 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0zhLAc-0002dz-00; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:06:23 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:06:22 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Portalfs Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Is anyone interested in the portalfs anymore? I was tidying up my machine over the weekend and came across some fixes to sbin/mount_portal I did in April 1995. They seem to have been included to the tree a along time ago, but apart from maintaince and Lite2 merges little has changed since then. I have some notes and a couple of extra supported file types in my stuff that weren't committed (I may not have submitted them anyway). If anyone is interested then drop me a line. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 21 19:46:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24133 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:46:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24128 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:46:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24075; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:45:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24248; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00182; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:45:47 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199811220345.TAA00182@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:45:47 -0800 In-Reply-To: Eivind Eklund "Re: Question on chroot()" (Nov 17, 12:54pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Eivind Eklund , Mike Smith , Harold Gutch Subject: Re: Question on chroot() Cc: zhihuizhang , hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Nov 17, 12:54pm, Eivind Eklund wrote: } Subject: Re: Question on chroot() } On Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 12:56:03PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: } > It's quite difficult to break out of a chroot'ed environment, yes, and } > it's intended to be impossible, so obviously you can only get out } > through flaws in the implementation... } } It is easy if you have root privileges inside the "jail". } } /* pseudo-code */ } mkdir("mybreakdir", 0700); } breakfd = open(".", 0, 0); } chroot("mybreakdir"); } fchdir(breakfd); } for (i=0; i<1000; i++) } chdir(".."); } chroot("."); } } I'm not sure if you need the fchdir(); You don't. } chroot() is not supposed to } affect your current directory. I don't think anybody has fixed the } above problem; it seems quite difficult to fix (you have to know which } FDs are inside and outside the jail, which is non-trivial). I implemented a local hack to solve the problem, though it has some limitations. I've thought of a better scheme that I have yet to implement. When I do, I'll post it for comments. --- Truck To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 21 21:41:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02620 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:41:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02613 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:41:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24908; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:40:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25791; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:40:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA00380; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:40:32 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199811220540.VAA00380@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:40:32 -0800 In-Reply-To: Julian Elischer "Re: Question on chroot()" (Nov 17, 12:09pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Julian Elischer , Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: Question on chroot() Cc: Mike Smith , Harold Gutch , zhihuizhang , hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Nov 17, 12:09pm, Julian Elischer wrote: } Subject: Re: Question on chroot() } > I'm not sure if you need the fchdir(); chroot() is not supposed to } > affect your current directory. I don't think anybody has fixed the } > above problem; it seems quite difficult to fix (you have to know which } > FDs are inside and outside the jail, which is non-trivial). } } You can test all fds that are directories to see if they are outside the } chroot, and fail the chroot if there are any such. } However it doesn't help because you can fork, open a unix domain socket, } and have the child do the chroot and then have the parent send it } an fd that would have made the chroot fail. Another way to break out is to fork(), then in one process chroot() to a subdirectory and chdir() to a subdirectory of the new chroot directory, and then in the other process rename the second subdirectory out from under the chroot directory. --- Truck To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 21 22:06:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04876 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:06:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04857; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:06:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25012; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:06:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26207; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA00417; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:06:11 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199811220606.WAA00417@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:06:10 -0800 In-Reply-To: Robert Watson "Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure?" (Nov 17, 5:02pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Robert Watson , Mikael Karpberg Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? Cc: William McVey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Nov 17, 5:02pm, Robert Watson wrote: } Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? } It might be nice to just have a file system socket any process can bind to } that mediates access to the authentication system. On the one side of the } socket is any client attempting to authenticate a user (possibly using PAM } as the API, and then some record based protocol over the socket), and on } the other side is Mr Auth Server that listens on the socket, accepts } connections, and is a place where throttling of attempts could be } performed. Similarly, it could take advantage of the SCM_AUTH (or } whatever) uid/gid passing to authenticate the processes on the other side. I think this is the best solution. Unless the process is setuid root (su), if the auth server sees that billybob is trying to validate a password, then the auth server should only validate billybob's password. This prevents billybob from trying to use the auth server to crack passwords, but it allows billybob to install and use his own private screen or terminal locker. --- Truck To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 21 22:43:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08562 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:43:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.rochester.rr.com (mail2-1.twcny.rr.com [24.92.226.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08547 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:43:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leisner@rochester.rr.com) Received: from rochester.rr.com ([24.93.25.38]) by mail2.rochester.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-53939U80000L80000S0V35) with ESMTP id com; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:43:03 -0500 Received: from dw (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rochester.rr.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA01487; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:42:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199811220642.BAA01487@rochester.rr.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 Reply-to: leisner@rochester.rr.com To: Robert Nordier cc: kpielorz@tdx.co.uk (Karl Pielorz), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting PID of parent pipe? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:38:37 +0200." <199811211238.OAA00989@ceia.nordier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:42:26 -0500 From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I suppose you can do something fancy with lsof, noting the current pid has one end of the pipe, and looking for the matching end... This is from linux, my freebsd lsof isn't working correctly now... If I do cat | wc I can:: leisner@dw;lsof -p 1464 COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME wc 1464 leisner cwd DIR 0,3 1024 554027046 /a/compaq/root (compaq:/) wc 1464 leisner rtd DIR 3,5 1024 2 / wc 1464 leisner mem REG 3,7 94749 36915 /usr/gnu (/dev/hda7) wc 1464 leisner mem REG 3,5 79144 6163 / (/dev/hda5) wc 1464 leisner mem REG 8,22 1895316 80016 /usr/local/lib/libc.so.5.4.44 wc 1464 leisner 0r FIFO 0x044c7000 0 PIPE <- wc 1464 leisner 1u CHR 3,1 0t0 2996 /dev/ttyp1 wc 1464 leisner 2u CHR 3,1 0t0 2996 /dev/ttyp1 and then : : leisner@dw;lsof | grep 44c7 cat 1463 leisner 1w FIFO 0x044c7000 0 PIPE -> wc 1464 leisner 0r FIFO 0x044c7000 0 PIPE <- this should work the same way on freebsd... > Karl Pielorz wrote: > > > Is there an 'easy' way of getting the PID of a parent process feeding a > > command's stdin? > > > > e.g. > > > > cat something | foo | bar > > You can use getppid(2). But the answer will be the PID of the shell, > in this instance. > > > > > I need to get the PID of foo while running as bar... > > The problem is that foo is not the parent of bar in your example. The > parent is the process that does the fork(2). > > If foo does exec bar itself (ie. somewhat like xargs): > > cat something | foo bar > > then getppid() will work. > > Given the PID of bar, the PID of foo will be more or less predictable, > so you may be able to get by using (ps plus grep plus) heuristics. > Otherwise, this should entail doing something similar to the fstat(1) > logic. > > -- > Robert Nordier > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Marty Leisner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 21 23:03:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09987 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:03:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.rochester.rr.com (mail2-0.twcny.rr.com [24.92.226.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09978 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:03:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leisner@rochester.rr.com) Received: from rochester.rr.com ([24.93.25.38]) by mail2.rochester.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-53939U80000L80000S0V35) with ESMTP id com; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 02:03:20 -0500 Received: from dw (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rochester.rr.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA01604; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 02:02:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199811220702.CAA01604@rochester.rr.com> Reply-to: leisner@rochester.rr.com To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wrapping a function In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:17:47 MST." <199811170517.WAA22627@mt.sri.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 02:02:43 -0500 From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In recent gnu ld's: `--wrap SYMBOL' Use a wrapper function for SYMBOL. Any undefined reference to SYMBOL will be resolved to `__wrap_SYMBOL'. Any undefined reference to `__real_SYMBOL' will be resolved to SYMBOL. This can be used to provide a wrapper for a system function. The wrapper function should be called `__wrap_SYMBOL'. If it wishes to call the system function, it should call `__real_SYMBOL'. Here is a trivial example: void * __wrap_malloc (int c) { printf ("malloc called with %ld\n", c); return __real_malloc (c); } If you link other code with this file using `--wrap malloc', then all calls to `malloc' will call the function `__wrap_malloc' instead. The call to `__real_malloc' in `__wrap_malloc' will call the real `malloc' function. You may wish to provide a `__real_malloc' function as well, so that links without the `--wrap' option will succeed. If you do this, you should not put the definition of `__real_malloc' in the same file as `__wrap_malloc'; if you do, the assembler may resolve the call before the linker has a chance to wrap it to `malloc'. In message <199811170517.WAA22627@mt.sri.com>, you write: >Does anyone have an easy way of 'wrapping' an already existing library >function so that any programs linked against your .o will call your >function, but so your function can call the 'real' library function? > >Example: > >my_malloc.c: > >void *malloc(size_t size) >{ > void *ret; > > printf("Calling malloc\n"); > ret = REALMALLOC(size); > printf("Leaving malloc\n"); > return ret; >} > >Ignoring all of the functions where there is loss of errno and such, are >they any good ideas? Note, the use of the dl* functions is explicitly >not allowed since those happen to be the functions I want to wrap in >this case. > >I'm at a loss here how to do this in C, so any good hacks are welcomed. > > >Nate > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 21 23:20:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11275 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:20:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles211.castles.com [208.214.165.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11270 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:20:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09602 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:19:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811220719.XAA09602@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Changing the load address of the kernel? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:19:30 +0100." <199811201119.MAA23190@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:19:11 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > After posting this to freebsd-questions I realized that it's > probably much better suited for -hackers. I'm sorry for the > double posting. > > I'm trying to change the load address of the kernel, but > without success. The default seems to be f0100000 (causing the > bootloader to load it at 00100000). I tried to change it to > f0400000. I changed the load address in two files: > > /sys/i386/conf/Makefile.i386 (one line) > /sys/kern/link_aout.c (two lines) > > The bootloader (I'm using rawboot from a floppy) correctly > loads the kernel to 00400000, but it hangs right after that. > Did I miss anything? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Changing the kernel load address will require a great amount of effort. There are almost certainly hardcoded copies of the value scattered around. > BTW, I'm using a 3.0-19981103-SNAP with ELF userland and aout > kernel. I searched the mailing list archives on this topic, > but without success. > > Background of the problem: I'm trying to boot a diskless > computer with a network boot ROM by LanWorks > (www.lanworks.com). They require to make a bootable floppy > first, then put an image of that floppy on a tftp server. > The ROM loads that image, makes a RAM disk from it and boots > it. The problem is: That RAM disks seems to overlap with the > kernel at 00100000. There doesn't seem to be a way to change > the location of the RAM disk. That's ugly. 8( > BTW, I also tried to contact InCom (www.incom.de) for boot > ROMs, but they're completely unresponsive. The demo version > that they offer is from 1995 and doesn't seem to support any > PCI FastEthernet cards. :-( That's why it's the demo version. Their product is actually pretty good, although yes, they're not what you'd call super-responsive. If you're trying to boot with an EtherExpress Pro/100, note that erich@freebsd.org has a modified netboot that works with these cards. I've asked him to commit the changes (I think), but I haven't heard from him since. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message