From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 00:06:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA29263 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:06:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from titanium.yy.ics.keio.ac.jp (titanium.yy.ics.keio.ac.jp [131.113.47.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA29257 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:06:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sanpei@sanpei.org) Received: from lavender.yy.cs.keio.ac.jp (ppp099.dialup.st.keio.ac.jp [131.113.27.99]) by titanium.yy.ics.keio.ac.jp (8.8.8+3.0Wbeta13/3.7W) with ESMTP id RAA29858; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:06:43 +0900 (JST) Received: (from sanpei@localhost) by lavender.yy.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.8.8/3.6W) id RAA24199; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:06:40 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199812130806.RAA24199@lavender.yy.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: brian@Awfulhak.org Cc: luigi@iet.unipi.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ESS1868 patches In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:15:03 +0000" References: <199812122015.UAA02165@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on Emacs 19.28.1 / Mule 2.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:06:40 +0900 From: MIHIRA Sanpei Yoshiro Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >As the machine comes up, you can hear feedback from the mic (located >in the centre, just above the keyboard and just between the two >speakers that are on the bottom left/right of the lid underneath the >LCD. The feedback goes away if you switch the microphone volume down >to zero. If you don't, suspending & resuming will cause the white >noise/feedback, and zeroing the mic volume will stop it. Yes, some NOTE has mic and pcm's default behavior is mismatched for these. My NOTE-PC does not have mic and mic connector. We think that white noise problem is related to DMA underrun. sanpei To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 00:29:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01387 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:29:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01382 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:29:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA29141 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:28:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07580 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA23748 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:28:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:28:56 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199812130828.AAA23748@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: adding policy tuning knobs to my F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG enhancements Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My previous security enhancements to the F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG in the 3.0 kernel code made some policy decisions that were hard-wired into the code but were commented in case someone needed to change them. I've decided that would be good to allow the security policy to be tuned using some sysctl knobs. The attached patch adds two policy adjustments, kern.security.setown_restrict, and kern.security.async_io_cred_check, which can be used to limit the process or process group that can be specified to F_SETOWN, and whether credentials should be checked before delivering the signals. Questions: Should these variables live under kern.security, directly under kern, or elsewhere? I also want to add some other security related tunables in other parts of the kernel. Assuming they should also live under kern.security, where should "SYSCTL_NODE(_kern, OID_AUTO, security, ...)" live? I've already got kern.security sysctl variables in two different files ... Any other comments on this patch are welcome. --- kern_descrip.c.orig Wed Nov 11 03:08:32 1998 +++ kern_descrip.c Sat Dec 12 23:39:50 1998 @@ -392,7 +392,24 @@ * * After permission checking, add a sigio structure to the sigio list for * the process or process group. + * + * The setown_restrict variable sets a policy which may restrict the allowable + * process/group argument for F_SETOWN/FIOSETOWN. An argument of 0 is + * always allowed. + * 0 - There are no restrictions, any existing process or process group + * may be specified. + * 1 - Any process or process group specified must belong to the same + * session as the current process. + * 2 - Only the current process group or a process in the current process + * group may be specified. This is the default. + * 3 - Only the current process may be specified. + * */ +static int setown_restrict = 2; +SYSCTL_NODE(_kern, OID_AUTO, security, CTLFLAG_RW, 0, ""); +SYSCTL_INT(_kern_security, OID_AUTO, setown_restrict, + CTLFLAG_RW|CTLFLAG_SECURE, &setown_restrict, 0, ""); + int fsetown(pgid, sigiop) pid_t pgid; @@ -411,30 +428,20 @@ proc = pfind(pgid); if (proc == NULL) return (ESRCH); - /* - * Policy - Don't allow a process to FSETOWN a process - * in another session. - * - * Remove this test to allow maximum flexibility or - * restrict FSETOWN to the current process or process - * group for maximum safety. - */ - else if (proc->p_session != curproc->p_session) + if (setown_restrict > 2 && proc != curproc || + setown_restrict > 1 && proc->p_pgrp != curproc->p_pgrp || + setown_restrict > 0 && + proc->p_session != curproc->p_session) return (EPERM); pgrp = NULL; } else /* if (pgid < 0) */ { pgrp = pgfind(-pgid); if (pgrp == NULL) return (ESRCH); - /* - * Policy - Don't allow a process to FSETOWN a process - * in another session. - * - * Remove this test to allow maximum flexibility or - * restrict FSETOWN to the current process or process - * group for maximum safety. - */ - else if (pgrp->pg_session != curproc->p_session) + if (setown_restrict > 2 || + setown_restrict > 1 && pgrp != curproc->p_pgrp || + setown_restrict > 0 && + pgrp->pg_session != curproc->p_session) return (EPERM); proc = NULL; } --- kern_sig.c.orig Tue Dec 8 20:40:50 1998 +++ kern_sig.c Sun Dec 13 00:10:50 1998 @@ -1358,9 +1358,16 @@ } /* - * Send a signal to a SIGIO or SIGURG to a process or process group using - * stored credentials rather than those of the current process. + * Send a SIGIO or SIGURG signal to a process or process group in + * response to an I/O event. + * + * If async_io_cred_check is nonzero, the stored credentials from + * the process that did the F_SETOWN/FIOSETOWN are first checked + * to see if it is permissible to send the signal. */ +static int async_io_cred_check = 1; +SYSCTL_INT(_kern_security, OID_AUTO, async_io_cred_check, + CTLFLAG_RW|CTLFLAG_SECURE, &async_io_cred_check, 0, ""); void pgsigio(sigio, signum, checkctty) struct sigio *sigio; @@ -1370,15 +1377,17 @@ return; if (sigio->sio_pgid > 0) { - if (CANSIGIO(sigio->sio_ruid, sigio->sio_ucred, - sigio->sio_proc)) + if (!async_io_cred_check || + CANSIGIO(sigio->sio_ruid, sigio->sio_ucred, + sigio->sio_proc)) psignal(sigio->sio_proc, signum); } else if (sigio->sio_pgid < 0) { struct proc *p; for (p = sigio->sio_pgrp->pg_members.lh_first; p != NULL; p = p->p_pglist.le_next) - if (CANSIGIO(sigio->sio_ruid, sigio->sio_ucred, p) && + if ((!async_io_cred_check || + CANSIGIO(sigio->sio_ruid, sigio->sio_ucred, p)) && (checkctty == 0 || (p->p_flag & P_CONTROLT))) psignal(p, signum); } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 03:42:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18924 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 03:42:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.42.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA18918; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 03:42:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA41440; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:41:49 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199812131141.MAA41440@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: [Free BSD] X-windows settings for Dell Latitude CPi In-Reply-To: from Guilhem Ensuque at "Dec 1, 1998 5: 4: 5 pm" To: guilhem.ensuque@bt-sys.bt.co.uk (Guilhem Ensuque) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:41:49 +0100 (CET) Cc: mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Guilhem Ensuque wrote: > > The Dells we purchased don't come with any technical specs of the > display. The models we have are the CPi D300XT and Dell support are less > than helpful... I know some of you mentioned installing X Windows, so I > would be more than grateful if someone could send the settings they used > for the display: Dunno if you got an answer yet, but you should use the latest XFree86 SVGA server (version 3.3.3), it has support for the Neomagic 2160 chip that the latitude uses, and it works just dandy.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@freebsd.org) FreeBSD Core Team member To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 04:36:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25673 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 04:36:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA25641 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 04:35:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from sunoco (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id HAA22675 Sun, 13 Dec 1998 07:35:54 -0500 (EST) From: Kaleb Keithley Received: by sunoco (SMI-8.6/Spike-2.1) id HAA01341; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 07:35:54 -0500 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 07:35:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199812131235.HAA01341@sunoco> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD ready for the Euro? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nope, it's not. :-( I looked at -current too and it's not there either. Attached is a patch for 'DIS 8859-15'-based locales. Don't delay, the Euro arrives on 1 January, 1999. -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY *** /usr/src/usr.bin/mklocale/data/Makefile.orig Sat Aug 15 08:51:48 1998 --- /usr/src/usr.bin/mklocale/data/Makefile Sun Dec 13 08:05:07 1998 *************** *** 9,14 **** --- 9,15 ---- lt_LN.ASCII \ lt_LN.ISO_8859-1 \ lt_LN.ISO_8859-2 \ + lt_LN.DIS_8859-15 \ ru_SU.CP866 \ ru_SU.KOI8-R \ zh_CN.EUC \ *************** *** 41,46 **** --- 42,51 ---- .for link in ${LATIN1LINKS} ln -fs ../lt_LN.ISO_8859-1/LC_CTYPE \ ${LOCALEDIR}/${link}.ISO_8859-1/LC_CTYPE + .endfor + .for link in ${LATIN1LINKS} + ln -fs ../lt_LN.DIS_8859-15/LC_CTYPE \ + ${LOCALEDIR}/${link}.DIS_8859-15/LC_CTYPE .endfor .for link in ${LATIN2LINKS} ln -fs ../lt_LN.ISO_8859-2/LC_CTYPE \ *** /dev/null Sun Dec 13 06:34:24 1998 --- /usr/src/usr.bin/mklocale/data/lt_LN.DIS_8859-15.src Sun Dec 13 08:26:30 1998 *************** *** 0 **** --- 1,47 ---- + /* + * Standard LOCALE_CTYPE for the dis_8859_15 Locale + */ + ENCODING "NONE" + VARIABLE DIS 8859-15 Latin-9 character set + + # + # This is a comment + # + ALPHA 'A' - 'Z' 'a' - 'z' 0xa6 0xa8 0xb4 0xb8 0xbc - 0xbe 0xc0 - 0xd6 0xd8 - 0xf6 0xf8 - 0xff + CONTROL 0x00 - 0x1f 0x7f - 0x9f + DIGIT '0' - '9' + GRAPH 0x21 - 0x7e 0xa1 - 0xff + LOWER 'a' - 'z' 0xa8 0xb8 0xbd 0xdf - 0xf6 0xf8 - 0xff + PUNCT 0x21 - 0x2f 0x3a - 0x40 0x5b - 0x60 0x7b - 0x7e 0xa1 - 0xa5 0xa7 0xa9 - 0xb3 0xb5 - 0xb7 0xb9 - 0xbb 0xbf 0xd7 0xf7 + SPACE 0x09 - 0x0d ' ' 0xa0 + UPPER 'A' - 'Z' 0xa6 0xb4 0xbc 0xc0 - 0xd6 0xd8 - 0xde + XDIGIT '0' - '9' 'a' - 'f' 'A' - 'F' + BLANK ' ' '\t' 0xa0 + PRINT 0x20 - 0x7e 0xa0 - 0xff + # IDEOGRAM + # SPECIAL + # PHONEGRAM + + MAPLOWER <'A' - 'Z' : 'a'> + MAPLOWER <'a' - 'z' : 'a'> + MAPLOWER <0xa6 - 0xa6 : 0xa8> + MAPLOWER <0xb4 - 0xb4 : 0xb8> + MAPLOWER <0xbc - 0xbc : 0xbd> + MAPLOWER <0xbe - 0xbe : 0xff> + MAPLOWER <0xc0 - 0xd6 : 0xe0> + MAPLOWER <0xd8 - 0xde : 0xf8> + MAPLOWER <0xdf - 0xf6 : 0xdf> + MAPLOWER <0xf8 - 0xff : 0xf8> + MAPUPPER <'A' - 'Z' : 'A'> + MAPUPPER <'a' - 'z' : 'A'> + MAPUPPER <0xa8 - 0xa8 : 0xa6> + MAPUPPER <0xb8 - 0xb8 : 0xb4> + MAPUPPER <0xbd - 0xbd : 0xbc> + MAPUPPER <0xc0 - 0xd6 : 0xc0> + MAPUPPER <0xd8 - 0xde : 0xd8> + MAPUPPER <0xe0 - 0xf6 : 0xc0> + MAPUPPER <0xf8 - 0xfe : 0xd8> + MAPUPPER <0xff - 0xff : 0xbe> + TODIGIT <'0' - '9' : 0> + TODIGIT <'A' - 'F' : 10> + TODIGIT <'a' - 'f' : 10> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 06:39:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05111 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:39:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA05105 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:39:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA00456; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:29:07 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199812131229.NAA00456@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: ESS1868 patches To: brian@Awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:29:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, sanpei@sanpei.org, luigi@iet.unipi.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812122203.WAA08065@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> from "Brian Somers" at Dec 12, 98 10:03:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The other patches (http://www.jp.freebsd.org/~sanpei/pcm0-ESS.tar.gz) > seem to be for 2.2 only :-/ I run -current on my laptop, so I can't > test them. i think they will apply with a minimal effort. Apart from the select/poll differences and one ioctl argument (which should not involve these patches), the whole "pcm" driver is exactly the same for 2.2 and 3.0 > Anyone have any other ESS1868 they'd like me to test ? Should I try > the xperiment stuff ? the one in xperiment is the same as the above URL i think. luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 06:41:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05531 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:41:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA05522 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:41:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA00475; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:30:46 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199812131230.NAA00475@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: ESS1868 patches To: sanpei@sanpei.org (MIHIRA Sanpei Yoshiro) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:30:45 +0100 (MET) Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, luigi@iet.unipi.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812130806.RAA24199@lavender.yy.cs.keio.ac.jp> from "MIHIRA Sanpei Yoshiro" at Dec 13, 98 05:06:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yes, some NOTE has mic and pcm's default behavior is mismatched > for these. correct. > My NOTE-PC does not have mic and mic connector. We think that > white noise problem is related to DMA underrun. also correct. I tried briefly to fix this but without success. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 08:50:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15560 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 08:50:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15554 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 08:50:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA14664; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:50:45 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA30606; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:50:30 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981213175029.Q5444@follo.net> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:50:29 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Don Lewis , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: adding policy tuning knobs to my F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG enhancements References: <199812130828.AAA23748@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812130828.AAA23748@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com>; from Don Lewis on Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:28:56AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:28:56AM -0800, Don Lewis wrote: > > My previous security enhancements to the F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG in the 3.0 > kernel code made some policy decisions that were hard-wired into the code > but were commented in case someone needed to change them. I've decided > that would be good to allow the security policy to be tuned using some > sysctl knobs. Why? What benefits does the ability to relax permissions on this give? I can see the use for tuning 'em up, but not really down... Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 11:29:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29726 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:29:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29719 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:29:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.219.124]) by Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00396; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:29:45 +0100 (MET) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.9.1/8.6.9) id MAA04896; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:43:35 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981213124334.B564@mi.uni-koeln.de> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:43:34 +0100 From: Stefan Esser To: Didier Derny , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Stefan Esser Subject: Re: Adaptec ANA 6944A TX and/or PCI problem Reply-To: se@FreeBSD.ORG Mail-Followup-To: Didier Derny , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Didier Derny on Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 09:52:20AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1998-12-11 09:52 +0100, Didier Derny wrote: > I'm trying to use two Adaptec ANA 6944A TX (4 port) 10/100 BaseT board. > > - each board is working fine separately. > - both board are not working used simultanously > - Nothing special during the boot (dmesg seems ok) Please send me your dmesg output from a "-v" boot (verbose messages). > I made the following experience: > > ifconfig de0 inet 192.168.5.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 > ifconfig de4 inet 192.168.6.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 > > then I ping both networks simultaneously and got a message > telling me that the the ethernet / ip addresses were not > comming from the right source. > > ip from de0 with the ethernet address of de4 > > (ports were numbered from de0 to de3 for the first board > and from de4 to de7 for the second board) > > My guess: > > when the first board is initialized everything is ok, then when the > second board is initialized the io ports of the second board are allocated > at the same location than for the first board. This can be verified by looking at the map registers (address 0x10 to 0x24 in PCI config space, have to check which one is correct for the port map of the DEC Ethernet chip). But this information should also be provided by the verbose boot ... > I ran the adaptec diagnostics, he saw two boards effectively, > he saw the same io ports at the same adresses 0xc800, 0xc400... The boards can be distinguished in PCI config space (geographical addressing) no matter, what their map registers are set to. Did you try with memory mapped registers (kernel build option, see the driver sources, remove the definition of TULIP_IOMAPPED, the comment most probably applies to anxient PCI bridges ... > but I'm not sure if it's a relative or absolute address. > > The other possibility is a problem in the allocations of ports > in the if_de.c driver. > > It is sure that when trying to ping de0 alone, de4 is activated > > If it's a pci problem, is there any possibility to override the PCI > configuration to avoid this problem. While it is not really impossible to remap PCI devices, this is an ugly thing to do. Only the PCI BIOS knows about restrictions of the chip set or mainboard hardware, and it should have used that knowledge to assign valid addresses in the first place. (I.e. I'd rather not trust PCI BIOS services to return valid information for the kernel to fix things up, in such a case!) Regards, STefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 13:12:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10828 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:12:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailb.telia.com (mailb.telia.com [194.22.194.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10816 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:12:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listuser@netspace.net.au) Received: from d1o1.telia.com (root@d1o1.telia.com [195.67.240.241]) by mailb.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12988 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:12:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from doorway.home.lan (t6o1p49.telia.com [195.67.241.109]) by d1o1.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24675 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:11:58 +0100 (CET) Received: (from listuser@localhost) by doorway.home.lan (8.8.8/8.8.7) id VAA02521 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:26:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listuser) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:26:10 +0100 (CET) From: List User Message-Id: <199812132026.VAA02521@doorway.home.lan> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Newsgroups: freebsd.hackers Path: root From: Stefan Esser Subject: Re: Adaptec ANA 6944A TX and/or PCI problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: se@FreeBSD.ORG Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.9.1/8.6.9) id MAA04896; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:43:35 +0100 (CET) To: Didier Derny , hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mail-Followup-To: Didier Derny , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Private News Host Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <19981213124334.B564@mi.uni-koeln.de> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i References: Delivered-To: vmailer-hackers@freebsd.org X-Uidl: a377e1b112d9f4ebee5866708edb7eb9 X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from Didier Derny on Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 09:52:20AM +0100 Cc: Stefan Esser Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:43:34 GMT On 1998-12-11 09:52 +0100, Didier Derny wrote: > I'm trying to use two Adaptec ANA 6944A TX (4 port) 10/100 BaseT board. > > - each board is working fine separately. > - both board are not working used simultanously > - Nothing special during the boot (dmesg seems ok) Please send me your dmesg output from a "-v" boot (verbose messages). > I made the following experience: > > ifconfig de0 inet 192.168.5.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 > ifconfig de4 inet 192.168.6.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 > > then I ping both networks simultaneously and got a message > telling me that the the ethernet / ip addresses were not > comming from the right source. > > ip from de0 with the ethernet address of de4 > > (ports were numbered from de0 to de3 for the first board > and from de4 to de7 for the second board) > > My guess: > > when the first board is initialized everything is ok, then when the > second board is initialized the io ports of the second board are allocated > at the same location than for the first board. This can be verified by looking at the map registers (address 0x10 to 0x24 in PCI config space, have to check which one is correct for the port map of the DEC Ethernet chip). But this information should also be provided by the verbose boot ... > I ran the adaptec diagnostics, he saw two boards effectively, > he saw the same io ports at the same adresses 0xc800, 0xc400... The boards can be distinguished in PCI config space (geographical addressing) no matter, what their map registers are set to. Did you try with memory mapped registers (kernel build option, see the driver sources, remove the definition of TULIP_IOMAPPED, the comment most probably applies to anxient PCI bridges ... > but I'm not sure if it's a relative or absolute address. > > The other possibility is a problem in the allocations of ports > in the if_de.c driver. > > It is sure that when trying to ping de0 alone, de4 is activated > > If it's a pci problem, is there any possibility to override the PCI > configuration to avoid this problem. While it is not really impossible to remap PCI devices, this is an ugly thing to do. Only the PCI BIOS knows about restrictions of the chip set or mainboard hardware, and it should have used that knowledge to assign valid addresses in the first place. (I.e. I'd rather not trust PCI BIOS services to return valid information for the kernel to fix things up, in such a case!) Regards, STefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 13:52:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13727 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:52:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13722 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:52:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA03268; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:52:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Screensaver KLDs From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 13 Dec 1998 22:52:04 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 129 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I got itchy fingers again and tried to write a graphical screensaver KLD. I used one of the existing screensaver modules as a template; it compiles fine, and I'm pretty sure that the code is mostly correct, but kldload refuses to load it: root@niobe /sys/modules/syscons/vga# make Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga @ -> /usr/src/sys machine -> /usr/src/sys/i386/include cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -DKERNEL -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -fformat-extensions -ansi -DKLD_MODULE -nostdinc -I- -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/@ -c vga_saver.c vga_saver.c:102: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type gensetdefs vga_saver.o cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -DKERNEL -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -fformat-extensions -ansi -DKLD_MODULE -nostdinc -I- -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/@ -c setdef0.c cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -DKERNEL -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -fformat-extensions -ansi -DKLD_MODULE -nostdinc -I- -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/@ -c setdef1.c ld -Bshareable -o vga_saver_mod.ko setdef0.o vga_saver.o setdef1.o root@niobe /sys/modules/syscons/vga# kldload vga_saver kldload: can't load vga_saver: Exec format error The other screensaver KLDs work fine (and they all produce the same warning when compiling). I'm running a bleeding-edge 3.0 Elf kernel. Here's the source: /*- * Copyright (c) 1998 Dag-Erling Coïdan Smørgrav * All rights reserved. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer * in this position and unchanged. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. The name of the author may not be used to endorse or promote products * derived from this software without specific prior written permission * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHOR ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESS OR * IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES * OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. * IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, * INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT * NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, * DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY * THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT * (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF * THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. * * $Id$ */ #include #include #include #include #include #include static int saved_mode; static u_char *vid; static int counter; static void vga_saver(int blank) { scr_stat *scp = cur_console; /* foo! */ if (!vid) return; if (blank) { /* switch to graphics mode */ if (scrn_blanked <= 0) { scp->status |= SAVER_RUNNING; saved_mode = scp->mode; if (sc_set_graphics_mode(scp, NULL, SW_VGA_CG320)) { scp->status &= ~SAVER_RUNNING; saved_mode = 0; return; } fillw(1, vid, 320); } /* update display */ vid[counter++] = 1; if (counter >= 320) counter = 0; vid[counter] = 15; } else { /* return to previous video mode */ if (scrn_blanked > 0) { if (saved_mode) sc_set_graphics_mode(scp, NULL, saved_mode); scrn_blanked = 0; scp->status &= ~SAVER_RUNNING; saved_mode = 0; } } } static int vga_saver_load(void) { video_info_t info; /* check that the console is capable of running in 320x200x256 */ if ((*biosvidsw.get_info)(cur_console->adp, SW_VGA_CG320, &info)) return ENODEV; vid = (u_char *)info.vi_window; return add_scrn_saver(vga_saver); } static int vga_saver_unload(void) { return remove_scrn_saver(vga_saver); } SAVER_MODULE(vga_saver); DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 15:42:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26399 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:42:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26394 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:42:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA02261 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:42:45 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199812132342.RAA02261@home.dragondata.com> Subject: NFS thoughts To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:42:45 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've noticed a few things about NFS. I don't know enough about this to be useful, so this is a lot of guesswork. I get my nfs client complaining about the server not responding a lot. I don't see how this is possible, because the server is connected over 100MB ethernet, on a very not busy segment, and the server isn't too busy. This began to make me wonder.... The dynamic retransmit algorithm doesn't look like it was meant for very high speed links like this. If the last few calls went very very quickly(which they appear to be), just a few collisions alone could knock this above the retransmit limit. I also seem to see this happening a lot right at 3am, when a big cron job goes off on the server, making the replies come in later. Mounting with -d seems to help this, but I'm going to experiment with changing the algorithm to back off in much bigger steps. Rpc Info: TimedOut Invalid X Replies Retries Requests 4 0 4749 10270 5587819 Usually, after each TimedOut that's occured, 5-10 processes seem to randomly exit on SIGSEGV. This is another issue that seems seperate, but if I can prevent timeouts from occuring anyway, this would go away too. Has anyone ventured down this path already? Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 19:00:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17224 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:00:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17219 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:00:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA18675; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:59:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:59:56 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812140259.SAA18675@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kaleb Keithley Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD ready for the Euro? References: <199812131235.HAA01341@sunoco> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Nope, it's not. :-( : :I looked at -current too and it's not there either. : :Attached is a patch for 'DIS 8859-15'-based locales. : :Don't delay, the Euro arrives on 1 January, 1999. ... done. -Matt :-- : :Kaleb S. KEITHLEY : : :*** /usr/src/usr.bin/mklocale/data/Makefile.orig Sat Aug 15 08:51:48 1998 :--- /usr/src/usr.bin/mklocale/data/Makefile Sun Dec 13 08:05:07 1998 :*************** :... Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 21:06:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26061 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:06:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA26054 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:06:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04453; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:06:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24856; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA25327; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:06:36 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199812140506.VAA25327@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:06:35 -0800 In-Reply-To: Eivind Eklund "Re: adding policy tuning knobs to my F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG enhancements" (Dec 13, 5:50pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Eivind Eklund , Don Lewis , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: adding policy tuning knobs to my F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG enhancements Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Dec 13, 5:50pm, Eivind Eklund wrote: } Subject: Re: adding policy tuning knobs to my F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG enhanc } On Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:28:56AM -0800, Don Lewis wrote: } > } > My previous security enhancements to the F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG in the 3.0 } > kernel code made some policy decisions that were hard-wired into the code } > but were commented in case someone needed to change them. I've decided } > that would be good to allow the security policy to be tuned using some } > sysctl knobs. } } Why? What benefits does the ability to relax permissions on this } give? I can see the use for tuning 'em up, but not really down... Originally things were wide open, and all the other BSD's (and other *nix flavors so far as I know) probably still are (except for possibly the credential check). There may be a few folks out there with crazy applications that require the old behaviour and I'd hate to disenfranchise them or require them to make hand modifications to kernel code. There may be situations where it is appropriate to disable the credential check now that the F_SETOWN argument can be restricted and the pid wraparound bug is gone. The patch I posted also tightens the default by a notch and I was confortable doing it because I also provided a knob to loosen it again. I'm treating this a warmup for another security enhancement I want to make which may have some security versus standards-conformance conflicts. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 22:27:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05783 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:27:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailb.telia.com (mailb.telia.com [194.22.194.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05411 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:26:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listuser@netspace.net.au) Received: from d1o1.telia.com (root@d1o1.telia.com [195.67.240.241]) by mailb.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07997 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:26:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from doorway.home.lan (t6o1p59.telia.com [195.67.241.119]) by d1o1.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18384 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:26:08 +0100 (CET) Received: (from listuser@localhost) by doorway.home.lan (8.8.8/8.8.7) id GAA08778 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:55:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listuser) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:55:30 +0100 (CET) From: List User Message-Id: <199812140555.GAA08778@doorway.home.lan> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Newsgroups: freebsd.hackers Path: root From: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: FreeBSD ready for the Euro? Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA18675; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:59:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) To: Kaleb Keithley Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Private News Host Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <199812140259.SAA18675@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199812131235.HAA01341@sunoco> Delivered-To: vmailer-hackers@freebsd.org X-Uidl: f986b0489786048e4e03bcd5b4e9a6d1 X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hackers Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:59:56 GMT :Nope, it's not. :-( : :I looked at -current too and it's not there either. : :Attached is a patch for 'DIS 8859-15'-based locales. : :Don't delay, the Euro arrives on 1 January, 1999. ... done. -Matt :-- : :Kaleb S. KEITHLEY : : :*** /usr/src/usr.bin/mklocale/data/Makefile.orig Sat Aug 15 08:51:48 1998 :--- /usr/src/usr.bin/mklocale/data/Makefile Sun Dec 13 08:05:07 1998 :*************** :... Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 22:36:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08942 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:36:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news2.du.gtn.com (news2.du.gtn.com [194.77.9.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08861 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:36:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely5.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (cicely.de [194.231.9.142]) by news2.du.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA21924; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:36:14 +0100 (MET) Received: from cicely.cicely.de (cicely.cicely.de [10.1.3.3]) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA14105; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:36:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from cicely5.cicely.de (cicely5.cicely.de [10.1.5.7]) by cicely.cicely.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08384; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:36:16 +0100 (CET) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely5.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) id HAA01332; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:36:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981214073605.20458@cicely.de> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:36:05 +0100 From: Bernd Walter To: Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts References: <199812132342.RAA02261@home.dragondata.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199812132342.RAA02261@home.dragondata.com>; from Kevin Day on Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 05:42:45PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 05:42:45PM -0600, Kevin Day wrote: > > I've noticed a few things about NFS. I don't know enough about this to be > useful, so this is a lot of guesswork. > > I get my nfs client complaining about the server not responding a lot. I > don't see how this is possible, because the server is connected over 100MB > ethernet, on a very not busy segment, and the server isn't too busy. > > This began to make me wonder.... The dynamic retransmit algorithm doesn't > look like it was meant for very high speed links like this. > > If the last few calls went very very quickly(which they appear to be), just > a few collisions alone could knock this above the retransmit limit. > > I also seem to see this happening a lot right at 3am, when a big cron job > goes off on the server, making the replies come in later. Mounting with -d > seems to help this, but I'm going to experiment with changing the algorithm > to back off in much bigger steps. > > Rpc Info: > TimedOut Invalid X Replies Retries Requests > 4 0 4749 10270 5587819 > > Usually, after each TimedOut that's occured, 5-10 processes seem to randomly > exit on SIGSEGV. This is another issue that seems seperate, but if I can > prevent timeouts from occuring anyway, this would go away too. > > Has anyone ventured down this path already? I saw the same on my private hosts. Everythings the same to your case instead that I have a 100MBit FreeBSD Router between them. All lines are running Full-Duplex Point-to-Point. In my case I have a syslogentry telling me about a server down under some load and it took minutes till it says that the server is up again. It happend when using NFS3/TCP at this moment I'm using NFS2/UDP and it won't hang. Another issue is that when using NFS with multihomed hosts the client ask on one IP address of the server and the server replies using another of his IPs, so the client is discarding the answers and still waiting. > > > Kevin > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- B.Walter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 22:54:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA06217 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:28:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailb.telia.com (mailb.telia.com [194.22.194.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05899 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:27:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listuser@netspace.net.au) Received: from d1o1.telia.com (root@d1o1.telia.com [195.67.240.241]) by mailb.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08688 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:27:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from doorway.home.lan (t6o1p59.telia.com [195.67.241.119]) by d1o1.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19275 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:27:01 +0100 (CET) Received: (from listuser@localhost) by doorway.home.lan (8.8.8/8.8.7) id GAA07040 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:54:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listuser) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:54:10 +0100 (CET) From: List User Message-Id: <199812140554.GAA07040@doorway.home.lan> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Newsgroups: freebsd.hackers Path: root From: Kevin Day Subject: NFS thoughts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA02261 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:42:45 -0600 (CST) To: hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Private News Host Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <199812132342.RAA02261@home.dragondata.com> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] Delivered-To: vmailer-hackers@freebsd.org X-Uidl: c2af812d31410c6fccab93303b3ec824 X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:42:45 GMT I've noticed a few things about NFS. I don't know enough about this to be useful, so this is a lot of guesswork. I get my nfs client complaining about the server not responding a lot. I don't see how this is possible, because the server is connected over 100MB ethernet, on a very not busy segment, and the server isn't too busy. This began to make me wonder.... The dynamic retransmit algorithm doesn't look like it was meant for very high speed links like this. If the last few calls went very very quickly(which they appear to be), just a few collisions alone could knock this above the retransmit limit. I also seem to see this happening a lot right at 3am, when a big cron job goes off on the server, making the replies come in later. Mounting with -d seems to help this, but I'm going to experiment with changing the algorithm to back off in much bigger steps. Rpc Info: TimedOut Invalid X Replies Retries Requests 4 0 4749 10270 5587819 Usually, after each TimedOut that's occured, 5-10 processes seem to randomly exit on SIGSEGV. This is another issue that seems seperate, but if I can prevent timeouts from occuring anyway, this would go away too. Has anyone ventured down this path already? Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 22:54:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA06273 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:28:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailb.telia.com (mailb.telia.com [194.22.194.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA06004 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:27:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listuser@netspace.net.au) Received: from d1o1.telia.com (root@d1o1.telia.com [195.67.240.241]) by mailb.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08818 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:27:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from doorway.home.lan (t6o1p59.telia.com [195.67.241.119]) by d1o1.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19315 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:27:16 +0100 (CET) Received: (from listuser@localhost) by doorway.home.lan (8.8.8/8.8.7) id GAA09141 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:55:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listuser) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:55:48 +0100 (CET) From: List User Message-Id: <199812140555.GAA09141@doorway.home.lan> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Newsgroups: freebsd.hackers Path: root From: Don Lewis Subject: Re: adding policy tuning knobs to my F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG enhancements Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA25327; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:06:36 -0800 (PST) To: Eivind Eklund , Don Lewis , hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Private News Host Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <199812140506.VAA25327@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) Delivered-To: vmailer-hackers@freebsd.org X-Uidl: 4735eebf59c373e54f3114df249397c1 X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Eivind Eklund "Re: adding policy tuning knobs to my F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG enhancements" (Dec 13, 5:50pm) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 05:06:35 GMT On Dec 13, 5:50pm, Eivind Eklund wrote: } Subject: Re: adding policy tuning knobs to my F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG enhanc } On Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 12:28:56AM -0800, Don Lewis wrote: } > } > My previous security enhancements to the F_SETOWN/SIGIO/SIGURG in the 3.0 } > kernel code made some policy decisions that were hard-wired into the code } > but were commented in case someone needed to change them. I've decided } > that would be good to allow the security policy to be tuned using some } > sysctl knobs. } } Why? What benefits does the ability to relax permissions on this } give? I can see the use for tuning 'em up, but not really down... Originally things were wide open, and all the other BSD's (and other *nix flavors so far as I know) probably still are (except for possibly the credential check). There may be a few folks out there with crazy applications that require the old behaviour and I'd hate to disenfranchise them or require them to make hand modifications to kernel code. There may be situations where it is appropriate to disable the credential check now that the F_SETOWN argument can be restricted and the pid wraparound bug is gone. The patch I posted also tightens the default by a notch and I was confortable doing it because I also provided a knob to loosen it again. I'm treating this a warmup for another security enhancement I want to make which may have some security versus standards-conformance conflicts. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 13 22:55:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA07286 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:32:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailb.telia.com (mailb.telia.com [194.22.194.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA07176 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:31:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listuser@netspace.net.au) Received: from d1o1.telia.com (root@d1o1.telia.com [195.67.240.241]) by mailb.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09070 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:27:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from doorway.home.lan (t6o1p59.telia.com [195.67.241.119]) by d1o1.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19405 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:27:43 +0100 (CET) Received: (from listuser@localhost) by doorway.home.lan (8.8.8/8.8.7) id GAA06049 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:53:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listuser) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:53:28 +0100 (CET) From: List User Message-Id: <199812140553.GAA06049@doorway.home.lan> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Newsgroups: freebsd.hackers Path: root From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Subject: Screensaver KLDs Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA03268; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:52:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Private News Host Precedence: bulk Lines: 129 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Delivered-To: vmailer-hackers@freebsd.org X-Uidl: 2a77a4b1b96953aa5811070a9f6beabe X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:52:04 GMT Well, I got itchy fingers again and tried to write a graphical screensaver KLD. I used one of the existing screensaver modules as a template; it compiles fine, and I'm pretty sure that the code is mostly correct, but kldload refuses to load it: root@niobe /sys/modules/syscons/vga# make Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga @ -> /usr/src/sys machine -> /usr/src/sys/i386/include cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -DKERNEL -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -fformat-extensions -ansi -DKLD_MODULE -nostdinc -I- -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/@ -c vga_saver.c vga_saver.c:102: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type gensetdefs vga_saver.o cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -DKERNEL -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -fformat-extensions -ansi -DKLD_MODULE -nostdinc -I- -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/@ -c setdef0.c cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -DKERNEL -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -fformat-extensions -ansi -DKLD_MODULE -nostdinc -I- -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/.. -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga -I/usr/src/sys/modules/syscons/vga/@ -c setdef1.c ld -Bshareable -o vga_saver_mod.ko setdef0.o vga_saver.o setdef1.o root@niobe /sys/modules/syscons/vga# kldload vga_saver kldload: can't load vga_saver: Exec format error The other screensaver KLDs work fine (and they all produce the same warning when compiling). I'm running a bleeding-edge 3.0 Elf kernel. Here's the source: /*- * Copyright (c) 1998 Dag-Erling Coïdan Smørgrav * All rights reserved. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer * in this position and unchanged. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. The name of the author may not be used to endorse or promote products * derived from this software without specific prior written permission * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHOR ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESS OR * IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES * OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. * IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, * INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT * NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, * DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY * THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT * (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF * THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. * * $Id$ */ #include #include #include #include #include #include static int saved_mode; static u_char *vid; static int counter; static void vga_saver(int blank) { scr_stat *scp = cur_console; /* foo! */ if (!vid) return; if (blank) { /* switch to graphics mode */ if (scrn_blanked <= 0) { scp->status |= SAVER_RUNNING; saved_mode = scp->mode; if (sc_set_graphics_mode(scp, NULL, SW_VGA_CG320)) { scp->status &= ~SAVER_RUNNING; saved_mode = 0; return; } fillw(1, vid, 320); } /* update display */ vid[counter++] = 1; if (counter >= 320) counter = 0; vid[counter] = 15; } else { /* return to previous video mode */ if (scrn_blanked > 0) { if (saved_mode) sc_set_graphics_mode(scp, NULL, saved_mode); scrn_blanked = 0; scp->status &= ~SAVER_RUNNING; saved_mode = 0; } } } static int vga_saver_load(void) { video_info_t info; /* check that the console is capable of running in 320x200x256 */ if ((*biosvidsw.get_info)(cur_console->adp, SW_VGA_CG320, &info)) return ENODEV; vid = (u_char *)info.vi_window; return add_scrn_saver(vga_saver); } static int vga_saver_unload(void) { return remove_scrn_saver(vga_saver); } SAVER_MODULE(vga_saver); DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 01:26:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA01268 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 01:26:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailb.telia.com (mailb.telia.com [194.22.194.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA01178 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 01:25:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listuser@netspace.net.au) Received: from d1o1.telia.com (root@d1o1.telia.com [195.67.240.241]) by mailb.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24734 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:25:42 +0100 (CET) Received: from doorway.home.lan (t6o1p48.telia.com [195.67.241.108]) by d1o1.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10844 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:25:40 +0100 (CET) Received: (from listuser@localhost) by doorway.home.lan (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA10786 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:28:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listuser) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:28:31 +0100 (CET) From: List User Message-Id: <199812140828.JAA10786@doorway.home.lan> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Newsgroups: freebsd.hackers Path: root From: Bernd Walter Subject: Re: NFS thoughts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely5.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) id HAA01332; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:36:05 +0100 (CET) To: Kevin Day , hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Private News Host Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <19981214073605.20458@cicely.de> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i References: <199812132342.RAA02261@home.dragondata.com> Delivered-To: vmailer-hackers@freebsd.org X-Uidl: 5ad7f6e186e978b99fa4509421b379b6 X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199812132342.RAA02261@home.dragondata.com>; from Kevin Day on Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 05:42:45PM -0600 Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:36:05 GMT On Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 05:42:45PM -0600, Kevin Day wrote: > > I've noticed a few things about NFS. I don't know enough about this to be > useful, so this is a lot of guesswork. > > I get my nfs client complaining about the server not responding a lot. I > don't see how this is possible, because the server is connected over 100MB > ethernet, on a very not busy segment, and the server isn't too busy. > > This began to make me wonder.... The dynamic retransmit algorithm doesn't > look like it was meant for very high speed links like this. > > If the last few calls went very very quickly(which they appear to be), just > a few collisions alone could knock this above the retransmit limit. > > I also seem to see this happening a lot right at 3am, when a big cron job > goes off on the server, making the replies come in later. Mounting with -d > seems to help this, but I'm going to experiment with changing the algorithm > to back off in much bigger steps. > > Rpc Info: > TimedOut Invalid X Replies Retries Requests > 4 0 4749 10270 5587819 > > Usually, after each TimedOut that's occured, 5-10 processes seem to randomly > exit on SIGSEGV. This is another issue that seems seperate, but if I can > prevent timeouts from occuring anyway, this would go away too. > > Has anyone ventured down this path already? I saw the same on my private hosts. Everythings the same to your case instead that I have a 100MBit FreeBSD Router between them. All lines are running Full-Duplex Point-to-Point. In my case I have a syslogentry telling me about a server down under some load and it took minutes till it says that the server is up again. It happend when using NFS3/TCP at this moment I'm using NFS2/UDP and it won't hang. Another issue is that when using NFS with multihomed hosts the client ask on one IP address of the server and the server replies using another of his IPs, so the client is discarding the answers and still waiting. > > > Kevin > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- B.Walter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 02:52:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA09228 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA09223 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA07888; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:51:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Screensaver KLDs References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 Dec 1998 11:51:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav's message of "13 Dec 1998 22:52:04 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > Well, I got itchy fingers again and tried to write a graphical > screensaver KLD. I used one of the existing screensaver modules as a > template; it compiles fine, and I'm pretty sure that the code is > mostly correct, but kldload refuses to load it: Please disregard, I found the bug. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 03:43:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13126 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:43:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gal.netlab.sk (gal.netlab.sk [195.168.1.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA13118 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:43:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@gal.netlab.sk) Received: (from lists@localhost) by gal.netlab.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA25269 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:43:38 +0100 (CET) From: "TPS's lists" Message-Id: <199812141143.MAA25269@gal.netlab.sk> Subject: own cvsup server To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:43:38 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I want establish cvsup server with own files (not with FreeBSD) where is something like detailed manual of cvsup index file format etc? -- Tomas 'TPS' Ulej tps@internet.sk, tu36-ripe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 08:15:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07471 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:15:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA07461 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:14:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA01052; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:13:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:13:03 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Bernd Walter cc: Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts In-Reply-To: <19981214073605.20458@cicely.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Bernd Walter wrote: > I saw the same on my private hosts. > Everythings the same to your case instead that I have a 100MBit FreeBSD Router > between them. All lines are running Full-Duplex Point-to-Point. > In my case I have a syslogentry telling me about a server down under some load > and it took minutes till it says that the server is up again. > It happend when using NFS3/TCP at this moment I'm using NFS2/UDP and it won't > hang. Ditto. Two machines back-to-back 100Mbit full duplex. Private NFS network. Migrating from 3/tcp to 2/udp seems to help alot. Can anyone else help confirm that in general 2/udp is the most dependable way to run if you're not traversing anything slower than 100Mb? I also haven't seen the "I've mounted soft and intr, yet things still hang" behaviour using version 2 and udp. Any consensus on that? Thanks, Charles > Another issue is that when using NFS with multihomed hosts the client ask on > one IP address of the server and the server replies using another of his IPs, > so the client is discarding the answers and still waiting. yuck. Charles > > > > > > Kevin > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- > B.Walter > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 08:19:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07887 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:19:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nts006.visionsys.com.br (nts006.visionsys.com.br [200.224.232.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA07882 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:19:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjabbur@microtecvision.com.br) Received: from microtecvision.com.br (bugtraq.visionsys.com.br [200.224.232.35]) by nts006.visionsys.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id YXPT3AG9; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:19:00 -0200 Message-ID: <36753A90.4E7F0124@microtecvision.com.br> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:19:28 -0200 From: Marlon Jabbur X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-19981117-SNAP i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers Subject: Natd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi List, I've implemented a Natd solution for my network, and iwant to do some things, can i make rules based on the login name ????? I want to implement filters that address users needs is this possible ????? I also need to make logging of users access , is this possible ????? Thanks Marlon Jabbur To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 08:35:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09180 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:35:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09175 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:35:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id IAA10419 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:35:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812141635.IAA10419@mailgate.cadence.com> Received: from symnt3.Cadence.COM(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma913653330.010409; Mon, 14 Dec 98 08:35:30 -0800 Received: from pc287-cam.cadence.com (d194032096069.Cadence.COM [194.32.96.69]) by symnt3.Cadence.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id XS4YG6G6; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:36:01 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:35:00 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: NFS thoughts Reply-to: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk References: <19981214073605.20458@cicely.de> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Bernd Walter wrote: > > Another issue is that when using NFS with multihomed hosts the client ask on > > one IP address of the server and the server replies using another of his IPs, > > so the client is discarding the answers and still waiting. > > -- > > B.Walter I wonder, do you see the retuned IP address to be the IP address of the first up network interface? If so this is due to the portmapper (I think) binding to the first IP interface it finds which is marked up. Try using NFS with point-to-point interface set upand ifconfig'd on the parallel port but nothing on the other end but. Probe the parallel port before any of the NICs and watch things fall over... Duncan PS. Of course, this may have been fixed, but it was a problem about 9months ago when I was playing with a laptop.;-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 08:51:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA11081 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:51:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11076 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:51:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA98836; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:55:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:55:21 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: spork cc: Bernd Walter , Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, spork wrote: > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Bernd Walter wrote: > > > I saw the same on my private hosts. > > Everythings the same to your case instead that I have a 100MBit FreeBSD Router > > between them. All lines are running Full-Duplex Point-to-Point. > > In my case I have a syslogentry telling me about a server down under some load > > and it took minutes till it says that the server is up again. > > It happend when using NFS3/TCP at this moment I'm using NFS2/UDP and it won't > > hang. > > Ditto. Two machines back-to-back 100Mbit full duplex. Private NFS > network. Migrating from 3/tcp to 2/udp seems to help alot. > > Can anyone else help confirm that in general 2/udp is the most dependable > way to run if you're not traversing anything slower than 100Mb? > > I also haven't seen the "I've mounted soft and intr, yet things still > hang" behaviour using version 2 and udp. Any consensus on that? why would you mount _both_ soft and intr? to me they seem mutually exclusive. 'intr' allows you to intrupt a hung NFS proc so that it recives a transient error on a filesystem call, the process will hang forever unless NFS comes back, or you ^C it 'soft' automates that with a timeout however signals won't work, but after some time the process will unhang and get an error on the filesystem call. Are you trying to get an auto-timeout like mount with that ability to ^C? generally intr is best, the idea of many processes timeing out on NFS mounts should the server crash, makes my stomach turn. btw, didn't the FreeBSD project pay someone big bucks to fix some of these problems? -Alfred > > Thanks, > > Charles > > > Another issue is that when using NFS with multihomed hosts the client ask on > > one IP address of the server and the server replies using another of his IPs, > > so the client is discarding the answers and still waiting. > > yuck. > > Charles To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 09:25:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:25:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14048 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:25:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA04103; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:00:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:00:13 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Marlon Jabbur cc: hackers Subject: Re: Natd In-Reply-To: <36753A90.4E7F0124@microtecvision.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Marlon Jabbur wrote: > Hi List, > > I've implemented a Natd solution for my network, and iwant to do some > things, can i make rules based on the login name ????? > > I want to implement filters that address users needs is this possible > ????? > > I also need to make logging of users access , is this possible ????? The way i'd do this is to do some major hacking with NATd to get it to use identd, you'll have to run ident on all your internal hosts. There is a libident out there to make this easier. Btw, your bill for overuse of question marks is 60$ (5$x4) Please send all checks to Walnut Creek cdrom. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 11:28:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29852 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:28:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29845 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:28:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA20191; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:28:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:28:14 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Duncan Barclay cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts In-Reply-To: <199812141635.IAA10419@mailgate.cadence.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Duncan Barclay wrote: > I wonder, do you see the retuned IP address to be the IP address of > the first up network interface? If so this is due to the portmapper > (I think) binding to the first IP interface it finds which is marked > up. I'm not sure if it works differently, but I'm using Wietse's "secure" portmapper replacement. I grabbed it so I could put acls on portmap, but I do have two interfaces and it always seems to grab the right one... Charles > > Try using NFS with point-to-point interface set upand ifconfig'd on > the parallel port but nothing on the other end but. Probe the > parallel port before any of the NICs and watch things fall over... > > Duncan > > PS. Of course, this may have been fixed, but it was a problem about > 9months ago when I was playing with a laptop.;-) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 11:33:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00301 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:33:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news2.du.gtn.com (news2.du.gtn.com [194.77.9.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00283 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:32:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely5.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (cicely.de [194.231.9.142]) by news2.du.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA03000; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:32:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from cicely.cicely.de (cicely.cicely.de [10.1.3.3]) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA15455; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:16:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from cicely5.cicely.de (cicely5.cicely.de [10.1.5.7]) by cicely.cicely.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09713; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:16:55 +0100 (CET) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely5.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) id TAA02039; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:16:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981214191651.22189@cicely.de> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:16:51 +0100 From: Bernd Walter To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts References: <19981214073605.20458@cicely.de> <199812141635.IAA10419@mailgate.cadence.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199812141635.IAA10419@mailgate.cadence.com>; from Duncan Barclay on Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:35:00PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:35:00PM +0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Bernd Walter wrote: > > > Another issue is that when using NFS with multihomed hosts the client ask on > > > one IP address of the server and the server replies using another of his IPs, > > > so the client is discarding the answers and still waiting. > > > -- > > > B.Walter > > I wonder, do you see the retuned IP address to be the IP address of > the first up network interface? If so this is due to the portmapper > (I think) binding to the first IP interface it finds which is marked > up. Nope - it was the IP of the interface to which the best routes point to. Nevertheless the client discards the answers. root@cicely7# mount www:/var/d1 /mnt ^C www is a secondary-address interface on cicely5.cicely.de I hope there is not to much noise. cicely5 and cicely7 are running the same binaries. They are build with a 3.0 src-tree extracted about a week ago As you can see there's no packet from www.cicely.de That's what I see: 19:06:18.572615 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155b9: reply ok 96 19:06:18.572632 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155bd: reply ok 28 19:06:18.572645 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155c1: reply ok 28 19:06:18.572656 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155c5: reply ok 28 19:06:18.572666 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155c9: reply ok 28 19:06:18.572677 cicely7.cicely.de.779 > cicely5.cicely.de.ssh: . ack 457565860 win 17520 (DF) [tos 0x10] 19:06:18.572687 cicely7.cicely.de.48198 > www.cicely.de.33438: udp 12 [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572697 cicely7.cicely.de.48198 > www.cicely.de.33439: udp 12 [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572707 cicely7.cicely.de.48198 > www.cicely.de.33440: udp 12 [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572715 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572724 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.605: udp 28 19:06:18.572733 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155cc: reply ok 96 19:06:18.572744 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155cd: reply ok 96 19:06:18.572754 cicely.cicely.de.e2270200 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:18.572765 cicely7.cicely.de.a2960100 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:18.572774 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572784 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.92c50000: reply ok 24 19:06:18.572793 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572802 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572811 cicely.cicely.de.f2270200 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:18.572822 cicely7.cicely.de.b2960100 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:18.572832 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572842 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.a2c50000: reply ok 24 19:06:18.572852 cicely6.cicely.de > www.cicely.de: icmp: echo request 19:06:18.572861 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572870 cicely6.cicely.de > www.cicely.de: icmp: echo request 19:06:18.572878 cicely6.cicely.de.39939 > www.cicely.de.33435: udp 12 [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572886 cicely6.cicely.de.39939 > www.cicely.de.33436: udp 12 [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572894 cicely6.cicely.de.39939 > www.cicely.de.33437: udp 12 [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572901 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572910 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.604: udp 28 19:06:18.572919 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155d0: reply ok 96 19:06:18.572929 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155d1: reply ok 96 19:06:18.572939 cicely.cicely.de.22280200 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:18.572950 cicely7.cicely.de.c2960100 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:18.572960 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.572970 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 60 19:06:18.572978 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 52 19:06:18.572986 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 48 19:06:18.572995 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 56 19:06:18.573004 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 52 19:06:18.573013 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 60 19:06:18.573022 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 56 19:06:18.573031 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 60 19:06:18.573041 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 60 19:06:18.573049 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 56 19:06:18.573059 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 60 19:06:18.573078 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 64 19:06:18.573088 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 64 19:06:18.573096 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 48 19:06:18.573105 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 60 19:06:18.573114 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 60 19:06:18.573123 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 60 19:06:18.573131 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 52 19:06:18.573140 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 56 19:06:18.573148 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 52 19:06:18.573157 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 52 19:06:18.573165 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 56 19:06:18.573175 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 52 19:06:18.573183 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 56 19:06:18.573192 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.603: udp 44 19:06:18.573201 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.b2c50000: reply ok 24 19:06:18.573211 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.573219 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.573228 cicely.cicely.de.32280200 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:18.573239 cicely7.cicely.de.d2960100 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:18.573249 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.573257 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.c2c50000: reply ok 24 19:06:18.573267 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.573276 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.573284 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.602: udp 28 19:06:18.573292 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155d4: reply ok 96 19:06:18.573303 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155d5: reply ok 96 19:06:18.573313 cicely.cicely.de.62280200 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:18.573324 cicely7.cicely.de.e2960100 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:18.573333 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.573342 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.d2c50000: reply ok 24 19:06:18.573352 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:18.573360 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:26.553569 cicely.cicely.de.72280200 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:26.553766 cicely5.cicely.de.nfs > cicely.cicely.de.72280200: reply ok 24 null 19:06:26.601925 cicely7.cicely.de.732 > www.cicely.de.sunrpc: udp 56 19:06:26.602134 cicely5.cicely.de.sunrpc > cicely7.cicely.de.732: udp 28 19:06:26.602934 cicely7.cicely.de.netviewdm3 > www.cicely.de.sunrpc: udp 56 19:06:26.603040 cicely5.cicely.de.sunrpc > cicely7.cicely.de.netviewdm3: udp 28 19:06:26.604064 cicely7.cicely.de.3f7acc05 > www.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:26.604178 cicely5.cicely.de.nfs > cicely7.cicely.de.3f7acc05: reply ok 24 19:06:26.604951 cicely7.cicely.de.netviewdm1 > www.cicely.de.sunrpc: udp 56 19:06:26.605078 cicely5.cicely.de.sunrpc > cicely7.cicely.de.netviewdm1: udp 28 19:06:26.605997 cicely7.cicely.de.728 > www.cicely.de.1018: udp 100 19:06:26.606541 cicely5.cicely.de.1018 > cicely7.cicely.de.728: udp 68 19:06:26.606723 cicely5.cicely.de.1156 > cicely.cicely.de.domain: 14264+ (39) 19:06:26.607964 cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485 > www.cicely.de.nfs: 96 getattr [|nfs] 19:06:26.608201 cicely5.cicely.de.nfs > cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485: reply ok 112 19:06:26.608544 cicely7.cicely.de > cicely5.cicely.de: icmp: cicely7.cicely.de udp port 1019 unreachable 19:06:26.649564 cicely.cicely.de.domain > cicely5.cicely.de.1156: 14264* 1/2/2 (160) 19:06:26.930841 cicely7.cicely.de.f2960100 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:26.930979 cicely5.cicely.de.nfs > cicely7.cicely.de.f2960100: reply ok 24 null 19:06:27.610716 cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485 > www.cicely.de.nfs: 96 getattr [|nfs] 19:06:27.610905 cicely5.cicely.de.nfs > cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485: reply ok 112 19:06:27.611259 cicely7.cicely.de > cicely5.cicely.de: icmp: cicely7.cicely.de udp port 1019 unreachable 19:06:28.573300 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:29.620828 cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485 > www.cicely.de.nfs: 96 getattr [|nfs] 19:06:29.621066 cicely5.cicely.de.nfs > cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485: reply ok 112 19:06:29.621422 cicely7.cicely.de > cicely5.cicely.de: icmp: cicely7.cicely.de udp port 1019 unreachable 19:06:33.630796 cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485 > www.cicely.de.nfs: 96 getattr [|nfs] 19:06:33.631023 cicely5.cicely.de.nfs > cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485: reply ok 112 19:06:33.631380 cicely7.cicely.de > cicely5.cicely.de: icmp: cicely7.cicely.de udp port 1019 unreachable 19:06:37.392575 cicely5.cicely.de.e2c50000 > cicely7.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:37.393124 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.e2c50000: reply ok 24 null 19:06:38.573989 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:41.641007 cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485 > www.cicely.de.nfs: 96 getattr [|nfs] 19:06:41.641243 cicely5.cicely.de.nfs > cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485: reply ok 112 19:06:41.641622 cicely7.cicely.de > cicely5.cicely.de: icmp: cicely7.cicely.de udp port 1019 unreachable 19:06:48.574692 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:53.132759 cicely5.cicely.de.601 > cicely6.cicely.de.1021: udp 56 19:06:53.133408 cicely6.cicely.de.1021 > cicely5.cicely.de.601: udp 28 19:06:55.433331 cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155d8 > cicely7.cicely.de.nfs: 96 getattr [|nfs] 19:06:55.434067 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155d8: reply ok 96 getattr [|nfs] 19:06:55.434214 cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155d9 > cicely7.cicely.de.nfs: 96 getattr [|nfs] 19:06:55.434699 cicely7.cicely.de.nfs > cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155d9: reply ok 96 getattr [|nfs] 19:06:56.732793 cicely.cicely.de.a2280200 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:56.732965 cicely5.cicely.de.nfs > cicely.cicely.de.a2280200: reply ok 24 null 19:06:56.961169 cicely7.cicely.de.2970100 > cicely5.cicely.de.nfs: 40 null 19:06:56.961297 cicely5.cicely.de.nfs > cicely7.cicely.de.2970100: reply ok 24 null 19:06:57.651065 cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485 > www.cicely.de.nfs: 96 getattr [|nfs] 19:06:57.651262 cicely5.cicely.de.nfs > cicely7.cicely.de.1412c485: reply ok 112 19:06:57.651606 cicely7.cicely.de > cicely5.cicely.de: icmp: cicely7.cicely.de udp port 1019 unreachable 19:06:58.575500 cicely6.cicely.de > mc5.cicely.de: OSPFv2-hello 44: rtrid cicely6.cicely.de backbone [|ospf] [ttl 1] 19:06:59.412401 cicely7.cicely.de.779 > cicely5.cicely.de.ssh: P 0:20(20) ack 1 win 17520 (DF) [tos 0x10] 19:06:59.414184 cicely5.cicely.de.7e2155dc > cicely7.cicely.de.nfs: 96 getattr [|nfs] > > Try using NFS with point-to-point interface set upand ifconfig'd on > the parallel port but nothing on the other end but. Probe the > parallel port before any of the NICs and watch things fall over... What I meant with point-to-point is that the hosts are connected using a cross-over cable without a hub between. The addressing sheme is still broadcast. > > Duncan > > PS. Of course, this may have been fixed, but it was a problem about > 9months ago when I was playing with a laptop.;-) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- B.Walter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 13:02:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11924 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:02:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA11919 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:02:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA21206; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:01:57 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:01:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 32 rdist's on a cluster Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG last pid: 1127; load averages: 20.23, 10.08, 4.29 15:59:55 172 processes: 19 running, 123 sleeping, 30 zombie CPU states: 45.6% user, 0.0% nice, 47.3% system, 7.1% interrupt, 0.0% idle Mem: 25M Active, 13M Inact, 17M Wired, 4616K Cache, 7493K Buf, 532K Free Swap: 118M Total, 3060K Used, 115M Free, 3% Inuse This is the current 3.0, smp. All the rdist procs get their fair share. What's interesting is that linux on the same hardware has a tough time with rdist to 16 machines. But this freebsd box with 31 machines runs quite well. ron Ron Minnich |"Using Windows NT, which is known to have some rminnich@sarnoff.com | failure modes, on a warship is similar to hoping (609)-734-3120 | that luck will be in our favor"- A. Digiorgio ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 13:55:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17893 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:55:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17888 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:54:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA99015 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:39:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:39:42 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: idea/help w. mirroring Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone written something that could be used to intercept all calls to write out file modification and give the modifications to a userland application? I'm interested in the most efficient method of doing filesystem mirroring, passing that info into a userland app using multicast would be ideal. The userland app may see which blocks of which file have been modified and distribute deltas across the network. With the major interest in softupdates lately i was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 14:29:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23044 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:29:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23038 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:29:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA18964; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:29:10 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA43207; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:29:10 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981214232905.R5444@follo.net> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:29:05 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:39:42PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:39:42PM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Has anyone written something that could be used to intercept all calls to > write out file modification and give the modifications to a userland > application? > > I'm interested in the most efficient method of doing filesystem mirroring, > passing that info into a userland app using multicast would be ideal. > > The userland app may see which blocks of which file have been modified and > distribute deltas across the network. > > With the major interest in softupdates lately i was wondering if anyone > could point me in the right direction. Stacking layer. And fs@freebsd.org. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 15:24:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29402 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:24:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from squirrel.tgsoft.com (cx20270-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com [24.0.169.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA29396 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:24:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thompson@gateway.tgsoft.com) Received: (qmail 863 invoked by uid 128); 14 Dec 1998 23:24:45 -0000 Date: 14 Dec 1998 23:24:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19981214232445.862.qmail@squirrel.tgsoft.com> From: mark thompson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bin/8183 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just got bit *again* by bin/8183 (inetd reports "junk pointer: too low to make sense"). Has a fix been decided on for this? -mark System: FreeBSD squirrel.tgsoft.com 2.2.7-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE #0: Wed Oct 7 12:19:37 PDT 1998 thompson@squirrel.tgsoft.com:/w/CVS/ipsec/src/sys/compile/MARX i386 p.s. Please pardon me if a fix has been committed and I did not work the bugs database hard enough to find it. -- "It may be a named pipe to you, but it's a socket to me" - dmr on an imaginary episode of Laugh In. -mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 15:27:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29545 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29540 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:27:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA14250; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:25:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:25:39 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Bernd Walter , Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > why would you mount _both_ soft and intr? to me they seem mutually > exclusive. Well, if one hangs and doesn't respond to ^C, and then the other doesn't either, why not try both? ;) > 'intr' allows you to intrupt a hung NFS proc so that it recives a > transient error on a filesystem call, the process will hang forever unless > NFS comes back, or you ^C it Theoretically. I would type something like "df" or "mount", and then that was the end of it. If I recall the process was in the state "vfswait"(?) in ps. If I tried to login, I'd get the motd and then a "NFS server x.x.x.x /var/mail not responding" and the session was locked. > 'soft' automates that with a timeout however signals won't work, but after > some time the process will unhang and get an error on the filesystem call. > > Are you trying to get an auto-timeout like mount with that ability to ^C? I think that would be great. However, I'd settle for either one working with v3. Since I've moved to v2 and udp, everything seems better. I can down the nfs interface and continue on my way. If "mount" or friends hangs, a ^C interrupts it... > generally intr is best, the idea of many processes timeing out on NFS > mounts should the server crash, makes my stomach turn. Yeah, this is a pretty simple setup. Just two machines sharing files over a 100Mb private network. I export /var/mail to the shell machine for the convenience of the shell users, and export /home /staff to the mail machine so it can read any .procmailrcs that people have put there. Overall, very little traffic... > > btw, didn't the FreeBSD project pay someone big bucks to fix some of these > problems? > I haven't heard that, but I'm really surprised no one using it in a commercial environment got tired of buying Sun boxes for NFS serving and commisioned someone to fix things up instead. If I had the cash I'd pony up, file sharing is very nice, especially in a secured environment... Thanks, Charles > > -Alfred > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Charles > > > > > Another issue is that when using NFS with multihomed hosts the client ask on > > > one IP address of the server and the server replies using another of his IPs, > > > so the client is discarding the answers and still waiting. > > > > yuck. > > > > Charles > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 16:01:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03863 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:01:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu (wrath.cs.utah.edu [155.99.198.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03854 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:01:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) Received: from torrey.cs.utah.edu (torrey.cs.utah.edu [155.99.212.91]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26589; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:00:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from danderse@localhost) by torrey.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA27013; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:00:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:00:55 -0700 (MST) From: "David G. Andersen" To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: spork , Bernd Walter , Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts In-Reply-To: Alfred Perlstein's message of Mon, December 14 1998 References: X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13941.42539.360724.653774@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lo and Behold, Alfred Perlstein said: > > > > I also haven't seen the "I've mounted soft and intr, yet things still > > hang" behaviour using version 2 and udp. Any consensus on that? > > why would you mount _both_ soft and intr? to me they seem mutually > exclusive. > > 'intr' allows you to intrupt a hung NFS proc so that it recives a > transient error on a filesystem call, the process will hang forever unless > NFS comes back, or you ^C it > > 'soft' automates that with a timeout however signals won't work, but after > some time the process will unhang and get an error on the filesystem call. > > Are you trying to get an auto-timeout like mount with that ability to ^C? > > generally intr is best, the idea of many processes timeing out on NFS > mounts should the server crash, makes my stomach turn. Note that until kern/8732 is fixed, this can be dangerous (hang your machine dangerous). Mounting with 'intr' and then sending SIGINTR while a process is attempting to flush a dirty block will cause the machine to wedge. -Dave -- work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ Department of Computer Science To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 16:04:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05814 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:04:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu (wrath.cs.utah.edu [155.99.198.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05809 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:04:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) Received: from torrey.cs.utah.edu (torrey.cs.utah.edu [155.99.212.91]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26977; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:04:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from danderse@localhost) by torrey.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA27025; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:04:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:04:53 -0700 (MST) From: "David G. Andersen" To: "TPS's lists" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: own cvsup server In-Reply-To: TPS's lists's message of Mon, December 14 1998 <199812141143.MAA25269@gal.netlab.sk> References: <199812141143.MAA25269@gal.netlab.sk> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13941.42751.322779.493263@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OpenBSD's page: http://openbsd.org/anoncvs.html Links to: http://openbsd.org/anoncvs.shar I set up one here a while ago (under FreeBSD, not Open), and it was relatively straightforward. The FreeBSD cvs supports the same options as the OpenBSD cvs, so there's really nothing to it. -Dave Lo and Behold, TPS's lists said: > I want establish cvsup server with own files (not with FreeBSD) where is > something like detailed manual of cvsup index file format etc? > > -- > Tomas 'TPS' Ulej > tps@internet.sk, tu36-ripe > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ Department of Computer Science To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 16:13:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07124 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:13:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07112 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:13:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA99453; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:16:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:16:00 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: "David G. Andersen" cc: spork , Bernd Walter , Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts In-Reply-To: <13941.42539.360724.653774@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, David G. Andersen wrote: > Lo and Behold, Alfred Perlstein said: > > > > > > I also haven't seen the "I've mounted soft and intr, yet things still > > > hang" behaviour using version 2 and udp. Any consensus on that? > > > > why would you mount _both_ soft and intr? to me they seem mutually > > exclusive. > > > > 'intr' allows you to intrupt a hung NFS proc so that it recives a > > transient error on a filesystem call, the process will hang forever unless > > NFS comes back, or you ^C it > > > > 'soft' automates that with a timeout however signals won't work, but after > > some time the process will unhang and get an error on the filesystem call. > > > > Are you trying to get an auto-timeout like mount with that ability to ^C? > > > > generally intr is best, the idea of many processes timeing out on NFS > > mounts should the server crash, makes my stomach turn. > > Note that until kern/8732 is fixed, this can be dangerous (hang > your machine dangerous). Mounting with 'intr' and then sending > SIGINTR while a process is attempting to flush a dirty block will > cause the machine to wedge. > > -Dave > there's about 5 suggested fixes in that PR, can someone take a look? maybe Matt "the PR killer" Dillon can take a look? :) breaking semantics a bit is a far better solution than a wedged system which allows for zero semantics. :) Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 17:10:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13519 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:10:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (goldfish.pht.co.jp [210.171.55.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13510 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:10:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA00554; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:26:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812141126.DAA00554@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Reinier Bezuidenhout cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel and ioctl call to kernel function In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 08 Dec 1998 11:40:01 +0100." <199812081040.LAA08899@borg.kryptokom.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:26:43 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > We have implemented a funtion in the kernel that does some > operations on data given to the function. This function > can be called from within the kernel AND from user level > via a ioctl call. Can it be called at interrupt time? > What will happen if the kernel calls this function after > the user level process also called this function via > the ioctl or vice versa. Does the one wait for the > other before the function is entered ??? There is only one thread of execution inside the kernel (at the moment; if/when the SMP kernel locks are pushed down this may change), so unless you call this function from an interrupt context it will never be reentered. > I see some strange behaviour where the user level process > never seems to hang (no characters are echo'd to the screen > anymore, I can still swap vertual screens, but to character > input and the num-lock still worlks :) ). This is consistent with a corruption of the interrupt mask, usually caused by a bug in interrupt-masking code, or kernel code in eg. a system call that is spinning without completing and returning to user mode. > How is this "simultanious" call to the same function handled ?? The kernel is just a big program, and interrupts are like signal handlers; you are required to call interrupt-safe functions from inside interrupt handlers, and to perform interrupt-related locking when you want to manipulate data in an atomic fashion. Just what you need to do here isn't possible to determine, as you haven't provided enough information, but my guess is that your function is either not reentrant but is being reentered (probably called from an interrupt handler as well as the ioctl), or you are manipulating one or more datastructures in an unsafe fashion. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 17:11:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13636 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:11:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (goldfish.pht.co.jp [210.171.55.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13630 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:11:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA00438; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:10:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812141110.DAA00438@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mark Templeton cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory holes for ISA device drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 09 Dec 1998 10:43:29 GMT." <366E5451.D95C8C6D@atc.dera.gov.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:10:16 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > OS is 2.2.5 > Card is on ISA bus, preferably at 0xA00000. > > How do I create a (physical) memory hole for a card, > as the card holds 64k shared memory? > The target system BIOS does not support the 15-16M memory hole. > pmap_mapdev() maps physical to virtual memory, but does not > create a hole. > > How do I create a memory hole? This is chipset- and motherboard-specific. If you can't map the card into the ISA 'hole' at 0xa0000, then you're SOL short of building a custom PCI:ISA bridge (eg. using a PLX9050) and remapping it into PCI space. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 17:12:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13666 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:12:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (goldfish.pht.co.jp [210.171.55.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13647 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:11:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA00420; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:07:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812141107.DAA00420@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "M. L. Dodson" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysinstall In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 09 Dec 1998 08:37:11 CST." <199812091437.IAA03589@beowulf.utmb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:07:58 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If I might, I would like to suggest that any project along this > line look to include g77 as well as C++ as part of the base > system. This would help those of us interested in using FBSD for > number crunching. I can generate some testing time, including > compiling and testing some pretty hefty computational chemistry > packages. Unfortunately, I'm a biochemist who knows about > computers, not a computer scientist who knows about biochemistry, > so my time would only be usefully used in a testing mode. Can you clarify for us why having g77 in the base system, rather than an easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port would be worthwhile? Our current drive is to increase, not decrease, the modularity of the system where possible; an addition like this would have to have a compelling justification that was key to the system's functionality to be considered. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 17:36:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15961 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:36:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (goldfish.pht.co.jp [210.171.55.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15938 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:36:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA00456; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:12:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812141112.DAA00456@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Q cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Documentation on writing Loadable modules for 3.0 anyone? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 09 Dec 1998 14:49:08 +1000." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:12:51 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I am hoping some kind sole out there has some preliminary doco on writing > lkm's for FreeBSD 3.0. A little while ago I wrote a FreeBSD 2.2 device > driver for my packard bell infra-red receiver. It workes great, but I have > now migrated to 3.0 and need to port the lkm to the new interface. The best references are in src/sys/modules/* > Specifically I need to know how to use the ttpoll stuff now that > d_select_t isn't used anymore. I haven't spent much time on it yet, but I > think it's going to end up taking a while if I have to keep greping > through kernel source and other device drivers :) This has nothing to do with the new module code; this is the select-> poll change. Have a look at the code deltas in any other similar driver for that (it's pretty trivial). As for building a KLD modules vs. building an LKM, again look at the code deltas from any of the old LKMs in src/lkm to the corresponding version in src/sys/modules. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 18:09:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20924 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:09:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20908 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:09:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28685; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:56:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199812150156.UAA28685@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Bernd Walter cc: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:16:51 +0100." <19981214191651.22189@cicely.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:56:03 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ticso@cicely.de said: :- Nevertheless the client discards the answers. As, I'm told, it should. Otherwise this allows for a spoofing attack. I was told this was a bug in SUN NFS servers, returning the wrong IP in a packet. Also, I thought the "noconn" option was the work-around for this problem. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 18:49:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27618 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:49:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27599 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:49:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA04149 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:49:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:49:13 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun1 To: hackers Subject: Page fault on a read-only apge Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I read in the mailing list archive something like "Also the VM tends to not consult the underlying object for a number of cases, the worst one being that if a write fault occurs on a read-only page, the VM will tend to add write access without asking the VFS if that is ok". Can anyone explain for me the situation and whether it has been fixed or not? Any help is appreciated. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 18:51:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27816 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:51:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (goldfish.pht.co.jp [210.171.55.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27802 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:51:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02027; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:49:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812150249.SAA02027@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Kevin Day cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:42:45 CST." <199812132342.RAA02261@home.dragondata.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:49:14 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I've noticed a few things about NFS. I don't know enough about this to be > useful, so this is a lot of guesswork. ... > I also seem to see this happening a lot right at 3am, when a big cron job > goes off on the server, making the replies come in later. Mounting with -d > seems to help this, but I'm going to experiment with changing the algorithm > to back off in much bigger steps. ... > Has anyone ventured down this path already? If so, I don't recall it - I'd certainly encourage you to do so and let us know what you come up with. Thanks! -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 20:38:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08101 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:38:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org ([142.177.186.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08096 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:38:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA13475; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:38:25 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:38:24 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Katsuhiro Kondou cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, inn-workers@isc.org Subject: Re: innstat problem still exists... In-Reply-To: <19981215122901I.kondou@inn.do.mms.mt.nec.co.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone recall what the fix is for this? Basically, the problem is that on a FreeBSD system, running INN, the following command just returns an error: %ctlinnd name '' Can't send "name" command (short read failure) No such file or directory. I swear there was a solution to this posted eons back, but can't find it... Thanks... On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Katsuhiro Kondou wrote: > In article , > The Hermit Hacker wrote; > > } 'K, how does one fix? :( I took a look through lib/inndcomm.c, at > } the ICCcommand() function, which appears to be what is generating the > } error, but nothing jumps out at me as a value that I can increase... > : > } 4083 ctlinnd CALL recvfrom(0x4,0x12000,0x1000,0,0,0) > } 4083 ctlinnd GIO fd 4 read 35 bytes > } "0 Reply too long for server to send" > > I've just remembered that someone reported this some > months ago, but forgot what should be. > Your innd fails to send the response due to huge data. > Maybe some other method, e.g. ctlinnd indicates output > file and innd writes the result to it, might be one > of solutions. > -- > Katsuhiro Kondou > Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 20:48:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09016 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:48:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09007 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:48:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA51219; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:48:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:48:07 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812150448.UAA51219@apollo.backplane.com> To: mark thompson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/8183 References: <19981214232445.862.qmail@squirrel.tgsoft.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I just got bit *again* by bin/8183 (inetd reports "junk pointer: too low :to make sense"). Has a fix been decided on for this? : :-mark : :System: :FreeBSD squirrel.tgsoft.com 2.2.7-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE #0: Wed Oct 7 12:19:37 PDT 1998 thompson@squirrel.tgsoft.com:/w/CVS/ipsec/src/sys/compile/MARX i386 : :p.s. Please pardon me if a fix has been committed and I did not work the :bugs database hard enough to find it. : :-- :"It may be a named pipe to you, but it's a socket to me" : - dmr on an imaginary episode of Laugh In. :-mark I committed a fix to -current. Are you running a -stable system? I will commit it to -stable too, I guess. -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 20:56:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10130 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:56:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA10125 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:56:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23840; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:56:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18899; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA28495; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:56:23 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199812150456.UAA28495@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:56:22 -0800 In-Reply-To: The Hermit Hacker "Re: innstat problem still exists..." (Dec 15, 12:38am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: The Hermit Hacker , Katsuhiro Kondou Subject: Re: innstat problem still exists... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, inn-workers@isc.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Dec 15, 12:38am, The Hermit Hacker wrote: } Subject: Re: innstat problem still exists... } } Does anyone recall what the fix is for this? Basically, the problem is } that on a FreeBSD system, running INN, the following command just returns } an error: } } %ctlinnd name '' } Can't send "name" command (short read failure) No such file or directory. } } I swear there was a solution to this posted eons back, but can't find } it... } } Thanks... } } } On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Katsuhiro Kondou wrote: } } > In article , } > The Hermit Hacker wrote; } > } > } 'K, how does one fix? :( I took a look through lib/inndcomm.c, at } > } the ICCcommand() function, which appears to be what is generating the } > } error, but nothing jumps out at me as a value that I can increase... } > : } > } 4083 ctlinnd CALL recvfrom(0x4,0x12000,0x1000,0,0,0) } > } 4083 ctlinnd GIO fd 4 read 35 bytes } > } "0 Reply too long for server to send" } > } > I've just remembered that someone reported this some } > months ago, but forgot what should be. } > Your innd fails to send the response due to huge data. } > Maybe some other method, e.g. ctlinnd indicates output } > file and innd writes the result to it, might be one } > of solutions. } > -- } > Katsuhiro Kondou >From my email archives: On Oct 20, 9:12pm, "Andrew Vasilyev" wrote: } Subject: Re: ctlinnd name '' and too many connections } > On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Andrew Vasilyev wrote: } ... } > > Change MIN_BUFFER_SIZE in lib/inndcomm.c to something bigger } > > (I've made it 32K) and recompile ctlinnd. } > } > Already tried that, but it doesn't help. I am sure I reinstalled ctlinnd } > and innd and restarted innd since then, but I still get the error at 2k. } } Somewhere in the past, when I used FreeBSD 1.5.1 (:))) and failed } to read about setsockopt(), I've hacked this place in cc.c:CCreader() } so it attempted to restart the reply from the previous end-point } (so one gets several 2K pieces). And it worked! :))) } _______ } ANDY }-- End of excerpt from "Andrew Vasilyev" On Oct 20, 2:46pm, Another Victim of the Usenet Mafia wrote: } Subject: Re: ctlinnd name '' and too many connections } On my birthday, when I was passing out fro^H^H^H far too many FREE BEERS, } Jeff Garzik wrote: } } > > Can't send "name" command (short read failure) Operation not permitted. } > } > The output the modified "ctlinnd name" command returns is very verbose. } > I sent Barry Boursyma a patch (does he still have it?) } } I should have it somewhere... Hmmm.... (NFS-mounts innumerable } filesystems, spends countless hours in confusion digging aroung, coming to } the conclusion that I'm not at all organized...) } } The closest I can come up with is this. Seems that with as many } simultaneous connections as I was having, Jeff decided to totally dispense } with labels, as the output would be parsed by a script anyway. So this } worked for me up to around 192 connections, give or take a handful... Or } maybe less? I donna rememba... } } *** cc.c Tue Jun 3 16:28:14 1997 } --- cc.c.new Sun Jun 8 07:45:59 1997 } *************** } *** 903,909 **** } BUFFappend(&CCreply, NL, 1); } p = CHANname(cp); } BUFFappend(&CCreply, p, strlen(p)); } ! sprintf(Gs1, ":seconds %ld:accepted %ld:refused %ld:rejected %ld", } (long)Now.time - cp->Started, cp->Received, cp->Refused, cp->Rejected); } BUFFappend(&CCreply, Gs1, strlen(Gs1)); } } } --- 903,909 ---- } BUFFappend(&CCreply, NL, 1); } p = CHANname(cp); } BUFFappend(&CCreply, p, strlen(p)); } ! sprintf(Gs1, ":%ld:%ld:%ld:%ld", } (long)Now.time - cp->Started, cp->Received, cp->Refused, cp->Rejected); } BUFFappend(&CCreply, Gs1, strlen(Gs1)); } } } } } So to my glazed eyes, I believe you should be able to obtain what you } want in any desired degree of verbosity (with suitable limit on total } response length until you tweak the size of the buffer in inndcomm.c), } by replacing the line in the patched version as } ! sprintf(Gs1, ":seconds %ld:accepted %ld:refused %ld:rejected %ld", } with something else, like maybe } ! sprintf(Gs1, ":sec %ld:acc %ld:ref %ld:rej %ld", } or whatever tickles your goat. } } } Barry Bouwsma, will dispense FREE BEER for food } Boursyma. Ha. You want me to say hello to more killfiles, eh? } }-- End of excerpt from Another Victim of the Usenet Mafia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 21:04:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10730 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:04:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TYO203.gate.nec.co.jp (TYO203.gate.nec.co.jp [202.32.8.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10725 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:04:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kondou@nec.co.jp) Received: from mailsv.nec.co.jp (mailsv-le1 [192.168.1.90]) by TYO203.gate.nec.co.jp (8.9.1a/3.7W98092815) with ESMTP id OAA20579; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:04:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from inn.do.mms.mt.nec.co.jp (inn.do.mms.mt.nec.co.jp [10.16.3.200]) by mailsv.nec.co.jp (8.9.1a/3.7W-MAILSV-NEC) with ESMTP id OAA12506; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:03:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost by inn.do.mms.mt.nec.co.jp (8.9.1/3.7W) with ESMTP id FAA12537; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:03:50 GMT To: inn-workers@isc.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: innstat problem still exists... From: Katsuhiro Kondou References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19981215140350D.kondou@inn.do.mms.mt.nec.co.jp> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:03:50 +0900 (JST) X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 18 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article , The Hermit Hacker wrote; } Does anyone recall what the fix is for this? Basically, the problem is } that on a FreeBSD system, running INN, the following command just returns } an error: } } %ctlinnd name '' } Can't send "name" command (short read failure) No such file or directory. } } I swear there was a solution to this posted eons back, but can't find } it... I've just found it in my local archive. <199805091103.PAA09294@kremvax.demos.su> I'll send you, if you cannot find it. -- Katsuhiro Kondou To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 22:29:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19250 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:29:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news2.du.gtn.com (news2.du.gtn.com [194.77.9.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19245 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:29:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely5.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (cicely.de [194.231.9.142]) by news2.du.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA04855; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:29:42 +0100 (MET) Received: from cicely.cicely.de (cicely.cicely.de [10.1.3.3]) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA17203; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:29:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from cicely5.cicely.de (cicely5.cicely.de [10.1.5.7]) by cicely.cicely.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12381; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:29:46 +0100 (CET) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely5.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) id HAA02904; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:29:42 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981215072941.19075@cicely.de> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:29:41 +0100 From: Bernd Walter To: Robert Withrow Cc: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts References: <19981214191651.22189@cicely.de> <199812150156.UAA28685@spooky.rwwa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199812150156.UAA28685@spooky.rwwa.com>; from Robert Withrow on Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 08:56:03PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 08:56:03PM -0500, Robert Withrow wrote: > > ticso@cicely.de said: > :- Nevertheless the client discards the answers. > > As, I'm told, it should. Otherwise this allows for a Sounds resonable - but why is the server sending it? > spoofing attack. I was told this was a bug in SUN NFS servers, The server is and the client are a week old FreeBSD current. Sounds like FreeBSD is bug-compatible with sun... > returning the wrong IP in a packet. Also, I thought the > "noconn" option was the work-around for this problem. intereting - since all my recent machines shows the following when amd is nfs-mounting: Dec 9 07:40:34 cicely5 amd[940]: noconn option exists, and was turned OFF! (May cause NFS hangs on some systems...) Where can I place this option? Can't find it in any manpage. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- B.Walter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 14 22:37:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20039 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:37:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news2.du.gtn.com (news2.du.gtn.com [194.77.9.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20034 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:37:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely5.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (cicely.de [194.231.9.142]) by news2.du.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA05893; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:36:51 +0100 (MET) Received: from cicely.cicely.de (cicely.cicely.de [10.1.3.3]) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA17216; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:36:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from cicely5.cicely.de (cicely5.cicely.de [10.1.5.7]) by cicely.cicely.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12397; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:36:55 +0100 (CET) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely5.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) id HAA02918; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:36:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981215073644.09069@cicely.de> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:36:44 +0100 From: Bernd Walter To: Mike Smith , Kevin Day Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts References: <199812132342.RAA02261@home.dragondata.com> <199812150249.SAA02027@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199812150249.SAA02027@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 06:49:14PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 06:49:14PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > I've noticed a few things about NFS. I don't know enough about this to be > > useful, so this is a lot of guesswork. > ... > > I also seem to see this happening a lot right at 3am, when a big cron job > > goes off on the server, making the replies come in later. Mounting with -d > > seems to help this, but I'm going to experiment with changing the algorithm > > to back off in much bigger steps. > ... > > Has anyone ventured down this path already? > > If so, I don't recall it - I'd certainly encourage you to do so and let > us know what you come up with. I havn't seen any commits beween the source I'm using and today which sounds like they have fixed it. Maybe I missed any. If anyone can say what kind of information he needs I can try to reproduce it. I walk very often in this situation so it should not be a problem. > > Thanks! > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- B.Walter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 00:40:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02790 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:40:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kremvax.demos.su (kremvax.demos.su [194.87.0.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA02784 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:40:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andy@kremvax.demos.su) Received: by kremvax.demos.su (8.6.13/D) from andy@localhost id LAA07459; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:36:51 +0300 Message-Id: <199812150836.LAA07459@kremvax.demos.su> Subject: Re: innstat problem still exists... In-Reply-To: <199812150456.UAA28495@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> from "Don Lewis" at "Dec 14, 98 08:56:22 pm" X-ELM-OSV: (Our standard violations) no-mime=1; no-hdr-encoding=1 To: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:36:51 +0300 (MSK) From: "Andrew Vasilyev" Cc: scrappy@hub.org, kondou@nec.co.jp, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, inn-workers@isc.org Reply-To: andy@demos.su Organization: "DEMOS, Moscow, Russia" X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > } > On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Andrew Vasilyev wrote: > } ... > } > > Change MIN_BUFFER_SIZE in lib/inndcomm.c to something bigger > } > > (I've made it 32K) and recompile ctlinnd. Another place to fix is cc.c::CCsetup(). You should add: { int i = 128 * 1024; setsockopt(CCwriter, SOL_SOCKET, SO_SNDBUF, (caddr_t)&i, sizeof(i)); } after creating the CCwriter socket. I think the idea is clear enough - or send a patch? :))) ________ ANDY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 02:30:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA10719 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:30:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pens.ion.sci.fi (pens.ion.sci.fi [195.74.8.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA10713 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:30:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaipila@pens.ion.sci.fi) Received: (from kaipila@localhost) by pens.ion.sci.fi (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06943; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:30:19 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kaipila) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Source address From: Antti Kaipila Date: 15 Dec 1998 12:30:19 +0200 Message-ID: <87af0pzohw.fsf@pens.ion.sci.fi> Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a interesting problem here. I have FreeBSD accting as a router between our LAN and Internet. I have a ET5025 card as interface eth0 and Intel EtherExpress as interface fxp0. eth0 has address 10.156.214.2 and remote ends address is 10.156.214.1. fxp0 has address 195.74.8.138 So, now when I try to connect from this machine acting as router to anywhere on the internet my source address get set to 10.156.214.2. Which is not nice, because all routers are dropping my packets thinking they should'nt be routed (that's the right thing to do ofcourse). Is there any way around this? Thanks. -- Antti Kaipila To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 02:49:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA12739 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:49:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.wan (trltech.demon.co.uk [194.222.7.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12730 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:49:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk) Received: from jezebel.demon.co.uk (rdls.dhcp.sw.wan [192.9.201.75]) by ns.wan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20939; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:49:00 GMT (envelope-from richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk) Message-ID: <36763ED7.99324B8B@jezebel.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:49:59 +0000 From: Richard Smith Organization: http://www.trltech.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Antti Kaipila CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Source address References: <87af0pzohw.fsf@pens.ion.sci.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Antti Kaipila wrote: > > I have a interesting problem here. I have FreeBSD accting as a router > between our LAN and Internet. I have a ET5025 card as interface eth0 and > Intel EtherExpress as interface fxp0. > > eth0 has address 10.156.214.2 and remote ends address is 10.156.214.1. > fxp0 has address 195.74.8.138 > > So, now when I try to connect from this machine acting as router to > anywhere on the internet my source address get set to > 10.156.214.2. Which is not nice, because all routers are dropping my > packets thinking they should'nt be routed (that's the right thing to > do ofcourse). > > Is there any way around this? You need to run natd on your FBSD router, so that all packets 'appear' to originate from *it* (195.74.8.138). See man natd. -richard. _______________________________________________________________________ Richard Smith Assistant Chief Engineer TRL Technology Limited To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 05:32:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA28107 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:32:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA28101 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:32:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA24250; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:32:06 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:32:06 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Richard Smith cc: Antti Kaipila , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Source address In-Reply-To: <36763ED7.99324B8B@jezebel.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Richard Smith wrote: > Antti Kaipila wrote: > > > > I have a interesting problem here. I have FreeBSD accting as a router > > between our LAN and Internet. I have a ET5025 card as interface eth0 and > > Intel EtherExpress as interface fxp0. > > > > eth0 has address 10.156.214.2 and remote ends address is 10.156.214.1. > > fxp0 has address 195.74.8.138 > > > > So, now when I try to connect from this machine acting as router to > > anywhere on the internet my source address get set to > > 10.156.214.2. Which is not nice, because all routers are dropping my > > packets thinking they should'nt be routed (that's the right thing to > > do ofcourse). > > > > Is there any way around this? > > You need to run natd on your FBSD router, so that all packets 'appear' > to > originate from *it* (195.74.8.138). See man natd. Not quite. His ISP is using 1918 networks between routers. I do this as well. With Cisco you can set the primary IP of the router, and all traffic appears to come from that IP, no matter which interface it goes through. If there is a way to have FreeBSD always report the connection as coming from it's usable IP, all that has to be done is to do it, but I don't know if FreeBSD can do that. Jamie Bowden -- Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 05:34:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA28468 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:34:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA28408 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:33:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dirk.vangulik@jrc.it) Received: from jrc.it (elpc51.jrc.it [139.191.71.51]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with ESMTP id OAA05625; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:34:30 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <367664AE.D50A3A75@jrc.it> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:31:26 +0100 From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik Organization: ISIS/STA - Joint Research Center of the European Commission X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dirk-Willem van Gulik Subject: EADDRINUSE rather than EADDRNOTAVAIL Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8FBF35BCE937F5FCD1814F39" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8FBF35BCE937F5FCD1814F39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got a small database transaction client/server pair. It is to accomplish serialisation of a db shared by a couple of web servers on a handfull of machines. The backend is DD; typical transaction speeds are in the 50/client/second; and 1500/server/second. The client is nothing special; just a socket(); connect() to a port/ip on the server. As the client connects from a web server; from several children it is common to have 100-dreds of connections open. Now occasionally I get a EADDRINUSE when I try to connect(2). Specifically when we re-start the deamons often for debugging and testing; or when a few are under heavy load, and I try to add new onws. Looking at in_pcb.h, where the error seems to come from, a EADDRNOTAVAIL would make sense. But I get an EADDRINUSE, which I cannot quite fit with the client sort of operations I am doing; i.e. I am not setting the local port explicitly: > if (me->sockfd = socket( AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0))<0 ) .. > > if( (setsockopt(me->sockfd,SOL_SOCKET,SO_REUSEADDR, > .. > if (setsockopt(me->sockfd, SOL_SOCKET, SO_SNDBUF, > (const char *) &sndbuf, sizeof(sndbuf)) < 0) { > ... > if( (setsockopt(me->sockfd,IPPROTO_TCP,TCP_NODELAY, > (const char *)&one,sizeof(one))) <0) { > ... > bzero( (char *) &server,sizeof(server) ); > > server.sin_family = AF_INET; > server.sin_addr.s_addr = me->addr; > server.sin_port = htons(me->port); > > if ((connect( me->sockfd, ( struct sockaddr *) &server, sizeof (server)))<0 ) { > ... Now I assume I've ran into some resource limit but I fail to see why. I've already had to increase FD_SETSIZE and play with MSIZE=256 on the server to get rid of the 101-254 delay; could that be the mistake; it seems not so to have made this problem worse. But which resource limit, and how do I fix it ? Any pointers of where to look ? Thanks ! Dw. --------------8FBF35BCE937F5FCD1814F39 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="Dirk.VanGulik.vcf" Content-Description: Card for Dirk-Willem van Gulik Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Dirk.VanGulik.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit begin:vcard n:van Gulik;Dirk-Willem tel;fax:+39 0332 78 9185 tel;work:+39 0332 78 9549 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://me-www.jrc.it/~dirkx org:Joint Research Center of the European Commission;Software Technology and Applications, Institute for Systems, Informatics and Security version:2.1 email;internet:Dirk.vanGulik@jrc.it title:Mr adr;quoted-printable:;;TP 270 - ISIS/STA=0D=0AJoint Resarch Center;Ispra;VA;21020;Italy x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Dirk-Willem van Gulik end:vcard --------------8FBF35BCE937F5FCD1814F39-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 05:49:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29660 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:49:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (goldfish.pht.co.jp [210.171.55.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29654; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:49:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA05665; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:47:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812151347.FAA05665@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: nestorv@cybernet.com cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Driver for GI SB1000 SurfBoard (internal cable modem) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:27:19 EST." <36643507.B24DFFF1@cybernet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:47:30 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have in my computer a General Instruments SB1000 SurfBoard cable > modem that came with W95 drivers. However, I am unable to use it with > my FreeBSD applications due to a lack of a driver. I did come across > the Linux driver at http://www.jacksonville.net/~fventuri however it > does not look that easy to adapt. Has anyone already done so or written > a separate one? Please advise. I don't know of any such thing, no. Looking at the driver, I am struck by several things, such as the fact that the card appears to be receive-only. You could probably hack something together using the information in this driver and an existing network driver to provide the template, but it would represent some interesting work (as the card isn't really an ethernet, and you don't want to ever talk out through it). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 06:01:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA00695 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 06:01:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.wan (trltech.demon.co.uk [194.222.7.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA00690 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 06:01:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk) Received: from jezebel.demon.co.uk (rdls.dhcp.sw.wan [192.9.201.75]) by ns.wan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21601; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:58:37 GMT (envelope-from richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk) Message-ID: <36766B48.DDAB07E1@jezebel.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:59:36 +0000 From: Richard Smith Organization: http://www.trltech.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jamie Bowden CC: Antti Kaipila , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Source address References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jamie Bowden wrote: > > Not quite. His ISP is using 1918 networks between routers. Whoops! I saw it back to front :-) _______________________________________________________________________ Richard Smith Assistant Chief Engineer TRL Technology Limited To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 07:10:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07447 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:10:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beowulf.utmb.edu (beowulf.utmb.edu [129.109.59.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07440 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:10:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu) Received: (from bdodson@localhost) by beowulf.utmb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA27744; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:07:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:07:18 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199812151507.JAA27744@beowulf.utmb.edu> From: "M. L. Dodson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mike Smith CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysinstall In-Reply-To: <199812141107.DAA00420@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199812091437.IAA03589@beowulf.utmb.edu> <199812141107.DAA00420@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15p7 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith writes: > > If I might, I would like to suggest that any project along this > > line look to include g77 as well as C++ as part of the base > > system. This would help those of us interested in using FBSD for > > number crunching. I can generate some testing time, including > > compiling and testing some pretty hefty computational chemistry > > packages. Unfortunately, I'm a biochemist who knows about > > computers, not a computer scientist who knows about biochemistry, > > so my time would only be usefully used in a testing mode. > > Can you clarify for us why having g77 in the base system, rather than > an easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port would be worthwhile? > > Our current drive is to increase, not decrease, the modularity of the > system where possible; an addition like this would have to have a > compelling justification that was key to the system's functionality to > be considered. I'm absolutely sympathetic with a desire for modularity. The problem is specific to g77 (and, possibly, to other of the optional gnu compilers). You can't just install g77; you have to take, at least, a custom version of gcc along with it. That means that you have to juggle your path in order to pick up the correct versions of everything. Let me point out that people using this compiler are not likely to be as knowledgable as your ordinary "hackers" subscriber. I have had success getting things done in spite of this behavior, but it is a royal PITA. Not to mention the possible differences in code generation between the system gcc and the g77-specific gcc. I have no way of judging whether that might or might not be a general source of difficulty. I do have experience with the behavior of the regression tests accompanying some number crunching packages being dependent on the compiler optimization level chosen, in some quite unexpected ways. This is really important to us. A 5% speedup means something when a run is 2 weeks long. This is one of the PsITA I would like to avoid. Perhaps a compromise would be for the system gcc version to have the hooks for g77 already compiled in, together with a module (installed as a binary package to maintain version consistency, likely to be important if I can read between the lines of the development history of the egcs and gcc projects) which could be optionally installed. This package would have all the g77-specific stuff in it, but nothing else. Is this in any way feasible? Failing that, let me suggest a port/package for g77 which is absolutely synchronized with the system version of gcc, including a pointer to a FreeBSD-maintained source code tree. By that I mean no attempt to track the latest/greatest gcc/egcs/g77 combo, only the real bug fixes. The issues are the same as those governing the decision not to track the development of gcc/egcs/g77 with the system gcc, but to settle on a version and stay with it. Or possibly an environment variable-dependent makefile target in the /usr/src tree might produce a g77 synchronized with the system gcc? I guess another way of expressing my "problem" is that I would like g77 available to me in the same high quality way that the rest of the base FreeBSD is available to me. I don't perceive that to be the case now. For instance, I have never had any luck with the g77 ports. For various reasons, perhaps now fixed (I haven't tried in more than a year), they just never worked (perhaps I never had the right combinations of versions of everything needed?). I have always had to get the gcc or egcs sources and go through the regular gnu installation procedure (although the egcs port seems to work OK now). That seems to me an inferior way to go about things. In any case, thanks to you guys for hearing me out, no matter what your decision. And I remain available to help out on this, if anyone wants to follow up. Bud Dodson [deletia] -- M. L. Dodson bdodson@scms.utmb.edu 409-772-2178 FAX: 409-772-1790 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 07:13:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07837 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:13:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itsdsv1.enc.edu (fw1.enc.edu [207.95.42.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07828 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:13:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owensc@enc.edu) Received: from itsdsv2.enc.edu (itsdsv2.enc.edu [10.1.1.9]) by itsdsv1.enc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19602 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:10:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:10:16 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Owens Reply-To: Charles Owens To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Bernd Walter wrote: > I saw the same on my private hosts. > Everythings the same to your case instead that I have a 100MBit FreeBSD Router > between them. All lines are running Full-Duplex Point-to-Point. > In my case I have a syslogentry telling me about a server down under some load > and it took minutes till it says that the server is up again. > It happend when using NFS3/TCP at this moment I'm using NFS2/UDP and it won't > hang. I was at the Usenix LISA conference last week and in one of the tutorials the issue of NFSv3/TCP stability and interoperability came up. One user reported the SGI<->Solaris and even SGI<->SGI NFSv3 mounts were flakey (with similar symptoms as described here). He eventually traced the problem to the NFSv3/TCP's use of larger buffersizes. These result in more intense bursts of network activity which would at times overrun buffers in his Ethernet switch. He convinced his network vendor to replace the switch with another with deeper buffers, and his problem went away! With the original switch he found that the default 32K read/write buffer size (as compared to UDP's default of 8K) was too much, but by limiting it to 16K he was able to get by, but with some reduction in performance. Could this be the issue that is plaguing our attempts to use NFSv3 with FreeBSD? Or are there other known defects that are at fault. I'm guessing that with FreeBSD we'd use the -r and -w options of mount_nfs to limit the read and write buffer sizes, though the manpage description isn't quite as informative as what's provided with the Solaris: rsize=n Set the read buffer size to n bytes. The default value is 32768 when using Version 3 of the NFS protocol. When using Version 2, the default value is 8192. Does this mount_nfs option from Solaris indeed work the same way as FreeBSD's -r option? later, --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles N. Owens Email: owensc@enc.edu http://www.enc.edu/~owensc Network & Systems Administrator Information Technology Services "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's Eastern Nazarene College best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 07:30:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09227 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:30:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA09222 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:30:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA22633; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:29:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:29:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: zhihuizhang cc: hackers Subject: Re: Page fault on a read-only apge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, zhihuizhang wrote: > Hi, I read in the mailing list archive something like "Also the VM tends > to not consult the underlying object for a number of cases, the worst > one being that if a write fault occurs on a read-only page, the VM will > tend to add write access without asking the VFS if that is ok". That sounds like something I might have written. It's certainly a problem I've had. A quick scan of current sources for 3.0 indicates it is still broken. The problem: you read-fault on a page and it is brought in by the vfs. But, the vfs wishes to know if you ever write fault on a page so it can support cache coherency (a la MNFS). On SunOS and Solaris, the vfs is called when a write-fault happens on a read-only page. On FreeBSD and Linux and AIX and Irix and ... it doesn't happen correctly. I'm not quite sure about NetBSD. ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 08:16:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12585 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:09:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12572 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24102; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:06:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:06:57 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Robert Withrow cc: Bernd Walter , dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts In-Reply-To: <199812150156.UAA28685@spooky.rwwa.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Robert Withrow wrote: > ticso@cicely.de said: > :- Nevertheless the client discards the answers. > > As, I'm told, it should. Otherwise this allows for a > spoofing attack. I was told this was a bug in SUN NFS servers, > returning the wrong IP in a packet. Also, I thought the > "noconn" option was the work-around for this problem. How about this one. I have two servers with two nics each. One nic on each machine has a 'public' IP and the other has a 'private' IP. All nfs mounts happen on the private side. Both machines are nfs servers and clients. If I take one out of service, I see these messages from the portmapper (this is Wietse's portmapper w/ACLs): Dec 15 10:36:59 newshell portmap[295]: connect from 207.240.xxx.xxx to callit(mountd): request from unauthorized host. So even though the mount it's trying is on 10.0.0.x, it tries connecting out the public side... Any ideas why? Thanks, Charles > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 08:42:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16900 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:42:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16892 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:42:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id IAA03516; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:40:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812151640.IAA03516@mailgate.cadence.com> Received: from symnt3.Cadence.COM(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma913740024.003496; Tue, 15 Dec 98 08:40:24 -0800 Received: from pc287-cam.cadence.com (d194032096069.Cadence.COM [194.32.96.69]) by symnt3.Cadence.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id XS4YG78V; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:40:51 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: spork , Robert Withrow , Bernd Walter , dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:39:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: NFS thoughts Reply-to: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk References: <199812150156.UAA28685@spooky.rwwa.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Robert Withrow wrote: > > How about this one. I have two servers with two nics each. One nic > on each machine has a 'public' IP and the other has a 'private' IP. > All nfs mounts happen on the private side. Both machines are nfs > servers and clients. If I take one out of service, I see these > messages from the portmapper (this is Wietse's portmapper w/ACLs): > > Dec 15 10:36:59 newshell portmap[295]: connect from 207.240.xxx.xxx > to callit(mountd): request from unauthorized host. > > So even though the mount it's trying is on 10.0.0.x, it tries > connecting out the public side... Any ideas why? > Yes, the portmapper binds to the first interface it finds that is up. Poul-Henning-Kamp raised this in 1995 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/mid.cgi?db=irt&id=199505212052.NAA12453@re f.tfs.com in src/lib/libc/rpc/get_myaddress.c determines it's own address by finding the first "UP" interface. I have a setup where my point-to-point interface lp0 is always up, but there may be nothing in the other end. Since our p-to-p if's do not register a route for their local address, you can only contact the local-end address when there is a machine in the other end. This means that mountd (for instance) will fail to contact the portmapper... Why on earth does the rpc code not use 127.0.0.1 ??? along with Dmitry Kohmanyuk, in 1996 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/mid.cgi?db=irt&id=199607240543.BAA00994@dog .farm.org also, it appears that portmapper is broken at least twice in this snap: first, it cannot get list of all addresses (including aliases) -I have resorted to hack on from_local.c:from_local() to return TRUE always ;-( second, mountd doesn't work if hostname is bound to alias or to nearest end of slip interface, and myself in 1997 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/mid.cgi?db=irt&id=XFMail.971012125949.dmlb@ ragnet.demon.co.uk with Terry's reply http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/mid.cgi?db=irt&id=199710121949.MAA24364@us r08.primenet.com > Mountd doesn't start; it can't register it's RPC and fails with a > "no route to host" error. > Chasing through mountd and the RPC code in libc I found the >problem in > /usr/src/lib/libc/rpc/get_myaddress.c, which returns the IP > address > of the first configured and running network interface that it > finds. Is the link "up"? It's probably arguable that it should return the default route's interface, at best, or not return interfaces that aren't UP,RUNNING", at worst. Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 09:14:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22574 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:14:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22565 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:14:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA67152; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:22:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812151722.JAA67152@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: sysinstall In-Reply-To: <199812151507.JAA27744@beowulf.utmb.edu> from "M. L. Dodson" at "Dec 15, 1998 9: 7:18 am" To: bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu (M. L. Dodson) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:22:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to M. L. Dodson: > Mike Smith writes: >>> If I might, I would like to suggest that any project along this >>> line look to include g77 as well as C++ as part of the base >>> system. This would help those of us interested in using FBSD for >>> number crunching. I can generate some testing time, including >>> compiling and testing some pretty hefty computational chemistry >> >> Can you clarify for us why having g77 in the base system, rather than >> an easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port would be worthwhile? f77 = stock f2c+gcc g77 = from egcs-1.1.1 port pgf77 = Portland Group Fortran compilers for linux The compiled program computes the acoustical scattering from an elastic spherical shell using standard partial wave analysis. f77 -O0 43.82 seconds g77 -O0 36.14 pgf77 -O0 19.68 f77 -O1 26.35 g77 -O1 15.12 pgf77 -O1 17.57 f77 -O2 22.78 g77 -O2 14.94 pgf77 -O2 16.16 f77 -O3 22.96 g77 -O3 14.87 pgf77 -O3 15.85 f77 -O3 22.97 (f2c+gcc does not honor a PPro flag) g77 -O3 -mpentiumpro 14.84 pgf77 -O3 -tp p6 15.83 >> Our current drive is to increase, not decrease, the modularity of the >> system where possible; an addition like this would have to have a >> compelling justification that was key to the system's functionality to >> be considered. g77 can be run in a manner that is fairly strict to the deprecated Fortran 77 standard. There are, however, well documented extensions in g77 that move g77 towards a standard conforming Fortran 90/95 compiler. g77 includes libU77 which permits a Fortran program to access the environment (e.g., getargs(), time(), date(), secnds(), subroutines). > I'm absolutely sympathetic with a desire for modularity. The > problem is specific to g77 (and, possibly, to other of the > optional gnu compilers). You can't just install g77; you have to > take, at least, a custom version of gcc along with it. That > means that you have to juggle your path in order to pick up the > correct versions of everything. Let me point out that people > using this compiler are not likely to be as knowledgable as your > ordinary "hackers" subscriber. I have had success getting things > done in spite of this behavior, but it is a royal PITA. Not to > mention the possible differences in code generation between the > system gcc and the g77-specific gcc. I have no way of judging > whether that might or might not be a general source of > difficulty. I do have experience with the behavior of the > regression tests accompanying some number crunching packages > being dependent on the compiler optimization level chosen, in > some quite unexpected ways. This is really important to us. A > 5% speedup means something when a run is 2 weeks long. This is > one of the PsITA I would like to avoid. Install the egcs-1.1.1 port and place /usr/local/bin in front of /usr/bin in our path. g77 will always use the right gcc and libraries. (Sorry for the long lines below) troutmask:kargl[207] g77 -v shell.f g77 version egcs-2.91.60 19981201 (egcs-1.1.1 release) (from FSF-g77 version 0.5.24-19980804) Driving: g77 -v shell.f -lg2c -lm Reading specs from /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/i386-unknown-freebsdelf/egcs-2.91.60/specs gcc version egcs-2.91.60 19981201 (egcs-1.1.1 release) /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/i386-unknown-freebsdelf/egcs-2.91.60/f771 shell.f -quiet -dumpbase shell.f -version -fversion -o /var/tmp/ccKPWs36.s GNU F77 version egcs-2.91.60 19981201 (egcs-1.1.1 release) (i386-unknown-freebsdelf) compiled by GNU C version egcs-2.91.60 19981201 (egcs-1.1.1 release). GNU Fortran Front End version 0.5.24-19980804 as -V -Qy -o /var/tmp/ccXhhSXa.o /var/tmp/ccKPWs36.s GNU assembler version 2.9.1 (i386-unknown-freebsdelf), using BFD version 2.9.1 /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/i386-unknown-freebsdelf/egcs-2.91.60/collect2 -m elf_i386 -dynamic-linker /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1 /usr/lib/crt1.o /usr/lib/crti.o /usr/lib/crtbegin.o -L/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/i386-unknown-freebsdelf/egcs-2.91.60 -L/usr/local/i386-unknown-freebsdelf/lib -L/usr/local/lib /var/tmp/ccXhhSXa.o -lg2c -lm -lgcc -lc -lgcc /usr/lib/crtend.o /usr/lib/crtn.o -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 09:45:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26563 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:45:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26558 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:45:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05300; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:45:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA16504; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:45:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:45:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812151745.JAA16504@vashon.polstra.com> To: lists@gal.netlab.sk Subject: Re: own cvsup server Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199812141143.MAA25269@gal.netlab.sk> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199812141143.MAA25269@gal.netlab.sk>, TPS's lists wrote: > I want establish cvsup server with own files (not with FreeBSD) where is > something like detailed manual of cvsup index file format etc? Yes, in the cvsupd(8) manual page that comes with the CVSup distribution. The server configuration files used by all of the FreeBSD mirror sites are also available via CVSup for reference. They're in the "distrib" collection. See the FreeBSD Handbook for details. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 09:53:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27230 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:53:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beowulf.utmb.edu (beowulf.utmb.edu [129.109.59.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27224 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:53:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu) Received: (from bdodson@localhost) by beowulf.utmb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA28294; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:50:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:50:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199812151750.LAA28294@beowulf.utmb.edu> From: "M. L. Dodson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Steve Kargl Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysinstall In-Reply-To: <199812151722.JAA67152@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <199812151507.JAA27744@beowulf.utmb.edu> <199812151722.JAA67152@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15p7 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Kargl writes: [deletia] > > g77 can be run in a manner that is fairly strict to the deprecated > Fortran 77 standard. There are, however, well documented extensions > in g77 that move g77 towards a standard conforming Fortran 90/95 compiler. > g77 includes libU77 which permits a Fortran program to access the > environment (e.g., getargs(), time(), date(), secnds(), subroutines). > Yeah, that's important, too, but since I primarily work with fairly standard Unix f77 programs, it is pretty transparent. [deleted] Let me point out that people > > using this compiler are not likely to be as knowledgable as your > > ordinary "hackers" subscriber. This sentence is characteristic of most academic environments that are not computer science departments, I think. Most of the people around here do well to know what Unix is, nevermind being sufficiently well versed to handle their path correctly. If they know more than a minimal amount of how to work with Unix, their experience is likely to be with SGIs or Crays. Of course these people aren't likely to be compiling their own programs. They just come to me and say "Do it for me!" :) [more deleted] [how to use egcs version of g77 deleted] I guess I could always do something like this: mv /usr/local/bin/g77 /usr/local/bin/g77.exe cat > /usr/local/bin/g77 #!/bin/sh PATH=/usr/local/bin:$PATH export PATH g77.exe $* ^D I've resisted such hacks because they are typical of VMS software ported to Unix with the absolute least amount of effort necessary. OK, I'll shut up. (mutter, mutter, mutter, ;-) > -- > Steve > > finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu > http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html -- M. L. Dodson bdodson@scms.utmb.edu 409-772-2178 FAX: 409-772-1790 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 09:54:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27478 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:54:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27468 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:54:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05364; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:53:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA16545; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:53:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:53:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812151753.JAA16545@vashon.polstra.com> To: eivind@yes.no Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <19981214232905.R5444@follo.net> References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <19981214232905.R5444@follo.net>, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:39:42PM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > Has anyone written something that could be used to intercept all calls to > > write out file modification and give the modifications to a userland > > application? > > > > I'm interested in the most efficient method of doing filesystem mirroring, > > passing that info into a userland app using multicast would be ideal. > > > > The userland app may see which blocks of which file have been modified and > > distribute deltas across the network. Something like that would also be useful to reduce the load on primary CVSup server hosts such as freefall. > Stacking layer. Ha ha ha, how about something that actually works, as opposed to "sounds good in the McKusick book"? As far as I can tell, there's not a single stackable filesystem in FreeBSD that works well enough to use in practice. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 10:01:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28608 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:01:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28539 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:01:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA03138; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:05:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:05:43 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: John Polstra cc: eivind@yes.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring In-Reply-To: <199812151753.JAA16545@vashon.polstra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, John Polstra wrote: > In article <19981214232905.R5444@follo.net>, > Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 04:39:42PM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > > > Has anyone written something that could be used to intercept all calls to > > > write out file modification and give the modifications to a userland > > > application? > > > > > > I'm interested in the most efficient method of doing filesystem mirroring, > > > passing that info into a userland app using multicast would be ideal. > > > > > > The userland app may see which blocks of which file have been modified and > > > distribute deltas across the network. > > Something like that would also be useful to reduce the load on > primary CVSup server hosts such as freefall. anything dealing with deltas would work much fast with this. > > > Stacking layer. > > Ha ha ha, how about something that actually works, as opposed to > "sounds good in the McKusick book"? As far as I can tell, there's not > a single stackable filesystem in FreeBSD that works well enough to use > in practice. I was thinking of intercepting the calls to actually write out data, however i think that by that point we are mapped to a physical address on the disk/media and not a logical block within a file. :/ I really need to read more kernel code. Our 'stacking' does work afaik? just no facilities for callbacks on a local filesystem right? Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current > John > -- > John Polstra jdp@polstra.com > John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA > "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 10:11:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29952 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:11:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29946 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:11:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA56534; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:11:15 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812151811.KAA56534@apollo.backplane.com> To: John Polstra Cc: eivind@yes.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring References: <199812151753.JAA16545@vashon.polstra.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Something like that would also be useful to reduce the load on :primary CVSup server hosts such as freefall. : :> Stacking layer. : :Ha ha ha, how about something that actually works, as opposed to :"sounds good in the McKusick book"? As far as I can tell, there's not :a single stackable filesystem in FreeBSD that works well enough to use :in practice. : :John :-- : John Polstra jdp@polstra.com : John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA : "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." Hmmm. At BEST, we do a sort of stacking. We break the CVS tree out into a source tree on a read-only partition. We then construct /usr/src by 'layering' it over the read-only source tree by reconstructing the directory structure in a r+w partition and making each source file a softlink to the read-only 'backing store'. When we need to make a local hack, we break the softlink. When we update the underlying source, we diff any broken softlinks and fold in changes as appropriate. It aint perfect, but it allows us to maintain local hacks while simultaniously preventing us from accidently corrupting the source tree. -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 10:15:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00522 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:15:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00495 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:15:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA16925; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:15:01 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id TAA50033; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:15:01 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981215191501.Y46780@follo.net> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:15:01 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: John Polstra Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring References: <19981214232905.R5444@follo.net> <199812151753.JAA16545@vashon.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812151753.JAA16545@vashon.polstra.com>; from John Polstra on Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 09:53:50AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 09:53:50AM -0800, John Polstra wrote: > > Stacking layer. > > Ha ha ha, how about something that actually works, as opposed to > "sounds good in the McKusick book"? As far as I can tell, there's not > a single stackable filesystem in FreeBSD that works well enough to use > in practice. I just think that the correct place to fix this is by fixing the stacking code, not by re-inventing stacking hooks. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 10:19:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01638 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:19:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01626 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05539; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:19:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16656; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:19:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19981215191501.Y46780@follo.net> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:19:10 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15-Dec-98 Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 09:53:50AM -0800, John Polstra wrote: >> > Stacking layer. >> >> Ha ha ha, how about something that actually works, as opposed to >> "sounds good in the McKusick book"? As far as I can tell, there's not >> a single stackable filesystem in FreeBSD that works well enough to use >> in practice. > > I just think that the correct place to fix this is by fixing the > stacking code, not by re-inventing stacking hooks. I agree. But it's been broken for so long, and so many people have tried and failed to fix it, that I don't hold out much hope at this point. I would love to be proved wrong. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 10:21:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02141 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:21:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02133 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:21:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10920; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:11:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from crab.whistle.com(207.76.205.112), claiming to be "whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdP10918; Tue Dec 15 18:11:15 1998 Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08905; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:11:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199812151811.KAA08905@whistle.com> Subject: Re: bin/8183 In-Reply-To: <199812150448.UAA51219@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Dec 14, 98 08:48:07 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:11:11 -0800 (PST) Cc: thompson@gateway.tgsoft.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dhw@whistle.com (David Wolfskill) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon writes: | :I just got bit *again* by bin/8183 (inetd reports "junk pointer: too low | :to make sense"). Has a fix been decided on for this? | : | :-mark | : | :System: | :FreeBSD squirrel.tgsoft.com 2.2.7-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE #0: Wed Oct 7 12:19:37 PDT 1998 thompson@squirrel.tgsoft.com:/w/CVS/ipsec/src/sys/compile/MARX i386 | : | :p.s. Please pardon me if a fix has been committed and I did not work the | :bugs database hard enough to find it. | : | :-- | :"It may be a named pipe to you, but it's a socket to me" | : - dmr on an imaginary episode of Laugh In. | :-mark | | I committed a fix to -current. Are you running a -stable system? I will | commit it to -stable too, I guess. Note I applied this "fix" to my -current machine and now Amanda won't work. It complains about bad packets. Note it uses UDP. Without this change we didn't have this problem only that after 5 days inetd claimed it can exec it. Killing and restarting inetd doesn't help. Running the old one does. I can try some fixes etc. but I may not be able to try them much in the next to weeks and I may be away from email a couple of days. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 10:31:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03996 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:31:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03988 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:31:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA59036; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:30:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:30:08 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812151830.KAA59036@apollo.backplane.com> To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: thompson@gateway.tgsoft.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dhw@whistle.com (David Wolfskill) Subject: Re: bin/8183 References: <199812151811.KAA08905@whistle.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :Note I applied this "fix" to my -current machine and now Amanda won't work. :It complains about bad packets. Note it uses UDP. Without this change :we didn't have this problem only that after 5 days inetd claimed it :can exec it. Killing and restarting inetd doesn't help. Running the :old one does. : :I can try some fixes etc. but I may not be able to try them much in the :next to weeks and I may be away from email a couple of days. : :Doug A. Amanda? The tape backup system? What is the inetd control line you are using? More information is needed... -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 10:56:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06351 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:56:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06344 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:56:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA09043; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:39:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:39:28 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199812151839.KAA09043@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: ambrisko@whistle.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com Subject: Re: bin/8183 Cc: dhw@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, thompson@gateway.tgsoft.com In-Reply-To: <199812151830.KAA59036@apollo.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:30:08 -0800 (PST) >From: Matthew Dillon >:Note I applied this "fix" to my -current machine and now Amanda won't work. >:It complains about bad packets. Note it uses UDP. Without this change >:we didn't have this problem only that after 5 days inetd claimed it >:can exec it. Killing and restarting inetd doesn't help. Running the >:old one does. >:I can try some fixes etc. but I may not be able to try them much in the >:next to weeks and I may be away from email a couple of days. I can handle simple things like discussing the configuration some, though I don't change Doug's machine much.... (I have root access, but I try to be non-intrusive.) > Amanda? The tape backup system? What is the inetd control line you > are using? More information is needed... Information? We got that, no problem: pau-amma[1]% rsh crab 'tail -1 /etc/inetd.conf' amanda dgram udp wait operator /usr/local/libexec/amanda/amandad amandad FYI, it's the same line that works OK (for a while) with the old inetd. Symptoms Doug & I noted this AM (with patched inted) included amandad whining about dup[licate] packets, and the amandad process hanging around far beyond a reasonable approximation of its useful(? -- especially given that all it was doing is whining) life. Should -hackers be on the addressee list on this? david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 11:50:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16051 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:50:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16046 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:50:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA59883; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:50:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:50:37 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812151950.LAA59883@apollo.backplane.com> To: David Wolfskill Cc: ambrisko@whistle.com, dhw@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/8183 References: <199812151945.LAA09463@pau-amma.whistle.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I wonder... does exec() clear blocked signals? I assumed it did. Anyone know for sure? -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) : :>Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:32:04 -0800 (PST) :>From: Matthew Dillon : :> If you have any of the error messages, I'd appreciate some of them too. : :OK; as promised, /var/log/messages was silent; here's :/tmp/amanda/amandad.debug: : :amandad: debug 1 pid 10007 ruid 2 euid 2 start time Tue Dec 15 11:42:54 :1998 :amandad: version 2.4.1 :amandad: build: VERSION="Amanda-2.4.1" :amandad: BUILT_DATE="Fri Oct 9 10:27:03 PDT 1998" :amandad: BUILT_MACH="FreeBSD crab.whistle.com 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD :3.0-CURRENT #0: Tue Sep 22 13:39:07 PDT 1998 :root@:/crab/home1/usr/current/freebsd/src/sys/compile/CRAB i386" :amandad: CC="gcc" :amandad: paths: bindir="/usr/local/bin" sbindir="/usr/local/sbin" :amandad: libexecdir="/usr/local/libexec/amanda" :amandad: mandir="/usr/local/man" :CONFIG_DIR="/usr/local/etc/amanda" :amandad: DEV_PREFIX="/dev/" RDEV_PREFIX="/dev/r" :amandad: DUMP="/sbin/dump" RESTORE="/sbin/restore" :amandad: GNUTAR="/usr/bin/tar" COMPRESS_PATH="/usr/bin/gzip" :amandad: UNCOMPRESS_PATH="/usr/bin/gzip" MAILER="/usr/bin/Mail" :amandad: listed_incr_dir="/usr/local/var/amanda/gnutar-lists" :amandad: defs: DEFAULT_SERVER="crab.whistle.com" :amandad: DEFAULT_CONFIG="Engineering" :amandad: DEFAULT_TAPE_SERVER="crab.whistle.com" :amandad: DEFAULT_TAPE_DEVICE="/dev/null" HAVE_MMAP HAVE_SYSVSHM :amandad: LOCKING=POSIX_FCNTL DEBUG_CODE BSD_SECURITY :amandad: CLIENT_LOGIN="operator" FORCE_USERID HAVE_GZIP :amandad: COMPRESS_SUFFIX=".gz" COMPRESS_FAST_OPT="--fast" :amandad: COMPRESS_BEST_OPT="--best" UNCOMPRESS_OPT="-dc" :got packet: :-------- :Amanda 2.4 REQ HANDLE 009-80240200 SEQ 913750982 :SECURITY USER operator :SERVICE selfcheck :OPTIONS ; :DUMP /crab/home2 0 OPTIONS |;bsd-auth;compress-fast;index; :DUMP /crab/home1 0 OPTIONS |;bsd-auth;compress-fast;index; :DUMP /crab/home 0 OPTIONS |;bsd-auth;compress-fast;index; :DUMP /var 0 OPTIONS |;bsd-auth;compress-fast;index; :DUMP / 0 OPTIONS |;bsd-auth;compress-fast;index; :-------- : :sending ack: :---- :Amanda 2.4 ACK HANDLE 009-80240200 SEQ 913750982 :---- : :bsd security: remote host shrimp.whistle.com user operator local user :operator :bsd security check passed :amandad: running service "/usr/local/libexec/amanda/selfcheck" :amandad: received dup packet, ACKing it :sending ack: :---- :Amanda 2.4 ACK HANDLE 009-80240200 SEQ 913750982 :---- : :amandad: received dup packet, ACKing it :sending ack: :---- :Amanda 2.4 ACK HANDLE 009-80240200 SEQ 913750982 :---- : : : :And amandad is still (claiming to be) running: : :crab# ps -axwwl|grep ama : 2 10007 10004 0 2 0 1188 692 select Is ?? 0:00.05 amandad : : :I s'pose I could try a tcpdump.... : :david :-- :David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator :dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 13:10:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25641 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:10:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25634 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:10:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA15715; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:07:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:07:37 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: spork cc: Duncan Barclay , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, spork wrote: > I'm not sure if it works differently, but I'm using Wietse's "secure" > portmapper replacement. I grabbed it so I could put acls on portmap, > but I do have two interfaces and it always seems to grab the right > one... >From src/usr.sbin/portmap/Makefile ... # -DHOSTS_ACCESS (requires tcpwrapper libraries) ... Does the same thing as Wietse's. (once you enable the option of course) -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 13:22:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27442 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:22:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27432 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:22:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA06210; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:22:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:22:37 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Daniel Ortmann cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd.org network attacks? In-Reply-To: <199812111247.GAA62575@pyrl.eye> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG cvsup.freebsd.org is very busy recently; try some of the others like cvsup2, cvsup3, etc. if you are having trouble. some changes in job load and disk hardware are in the works (hopefully during the holiday period) to mitigate the situation and restore performance. I am also thinking that we will give 3.0 a shot on the machine. Regards, -Chris On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Daniel Ortmann wrote: > During the past 2 weeks I have had *no* cvsup sessions complete during > the first try; that is rare. I know I am not the only one. > > Is it just a bad section of internet? > > Is freebsd.org undergoing network attacks? > > How would we know? > > Has anyone considered this before? > > Has anyone taken action to guard against it? > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 13:29:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28390 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28385 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:29:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06335; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:29:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA17235; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:29:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199812151811.KAA56534@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:29:30 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15-Dec-98 Matthew Dillon wrote: > Hmmm. At BEST, we do a sort of stacking. We break the CVS > tree out into a source tree on a read-only partition. We > then construct /usr/src by 'layering' it over the read-only > source tree by reconstructing the directory structure in a > r+w partition and making each source file a softlink to the > read-only 'backing store'. > > When we need to make a local hack, we break the softlink. When > we update the underlying source, we diff any broken softlinks > and fold in changes as appropriate. It aint perfect, but > it allows us to maintain local hacks while simultaniously > preventing us from accidently corrupting the source tree. I'm curious -- have you tried amd's "union" filesystem type? It tries to automate what you're doing. I've played around with it a little bit, but haven't attempted to use it on a large scale. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 13:34:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28966 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:34:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28959 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:34:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06365; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:34:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA17246; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:34:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:34:03 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15-Dec-98 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, John Polstra wrote: >> Something like that would also be useful to reduce the load on >> primary CVSup server hosts such as freefall. > > anything dealing with deltas would work much fast with this. For cvsupd, I actually don't need much detail. I just need to know whenever a file in the repository has been touched or created. A hook into CVS is one solution. But repositories tend to get modified by back-door means every now and then. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 13:37:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29271 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:37:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29263 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:37:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03517; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:41:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:41:48 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: John Polstra cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, John Polstra wrote: > On 15-Dec-98 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, John Polstra wrote: > >> Something like that would also be useful to reduce the load on > >> primary CVSup server hosts such as freefall. > > > > anything dealing with deltas would work much fast with this. > > For cvsupd, I actually don't need much detail. I just need to know > whenever a file in the repository has been touched or created. A hook > into CVS is one solution. But repositories tend to get modified by > back-door means every now and then. Either would be great, walking and comparing directory trees to mirror is terrible, just notification of a change would be great. Being able to see which logical blocks were changed would be even better. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current > John > --- > John Polstra jdp@polstra.com > John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA > "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." > -- H. L. Mencken > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 13:42:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29984 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:42:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29968 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:42:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA46440; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:41:47 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:41:46 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: Matthew Dillon , David Wolfskill Cc: ambrisko@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/8183 Message-ID: <19981215154146.A46153@emsphone.com> References: <199812151945.LAA09463@pau-amma.whistle.com> <199812151950.LAA59883@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.3i In-Reply-To: <199812151950.LAA59883@apollo.backplane.com>; from "Matthew Dillon" on Tue Dec 15 11:50:37 GMT 1998 X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Dec 15), Matthew Dillon said: > I wonder... does exec() clear blocked signals? I assumed it did. > Anyone know for sure? It does not. manpage for signal(3): When a process which has installed signal handlers forks, the child process inherits the signals. All caught signals may be reset to their default action by a call to the execve(2) function; ignored signals remain ignored. Note that this affects any background program run via "nohup" also. If you run "nohup program &", don't expect to be able to kill -HUP it later. This was discussed a little on the mysql mailinglist, when FreeBSD people noticed that they couldn't kill the server (mysql uses -QUIT to exit, and nohup blocks HUP and QUIT). -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 13:45:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00656 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:45:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00650 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:45:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03530; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:49:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:49:44 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: John Polstra cc: Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, John Polstra wrote: > On 15-Dec-98 Matthew Dillon wrote: > > > Hmmm. At BEST, we do a sort of stacking. We break the CVS > > tree out into a source tree on a read-only partition. We > > then construct /usr/src by 'layering' it over the read-only > > source tree by reconstructing the directory structure in a > > r+w partition and making each source file a softlink to the > > read-only 'backing store'. > > > > When we need to make a local hack, we break the softlink. When > > we update the underlying source, we diff any broken softlinks > > and fold in changes as appropriate. It aint perfect, but > > it allows us to maintain local hacks while simultaniously > > preventing us from accidently corrupting the source tree. > > I'm curious -- have you tried amd's "union" filesystem type? It tries > to automate what you're doing. I've played around with it a little > bit, but haven't attempted to use it on a large scale. Are UNION mounts safe again? That would be really great. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current > John > --- > John Polstra jdp@polstra.com > John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA > "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." > -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 13:47:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00916 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:47:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00911 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:47:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06458; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:47:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA17295; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:47:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:47:30 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Matthew Dillon Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> I'm curious -- have you tried amd's "union" filesystem type? It tries >> to automate what you're doing. I've played around with it a little >> bit, but haven't attempted to use it on a large scale. > > Are UNION mounts safe again? That would be really great. No, this is something entirely different. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 14:31:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06974 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:31:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06969 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:31:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id XAA18093 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:31:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 034EE14FD; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:03:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:03:35 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? Message-ID: <19981215230335.C14958@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <1958.912571118@zippy.cdrom.com> <19981208230955.A16874@keltia.freenix.fr> <366F010A.FF6D5DF@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.16i In-Reply-To: <366F010A.FF6D5DF@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 03:00:26PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4871 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Julian Elischer: > Maybe we can get some confirmation from one of the KAME guys that > they too are serious about this and that they too are willing to > sacrifice some of their code for pieces of INRIA code, and visa versa. I saw Francis and Jun-ichiro today at the IP Future conference in Paris. Both confirmed the merging (which seems to include the NRL code as well) and it was formally announced at the IETF last week in Orlando (there was much cheering at the news). > A roadmap would be nice.. > Maybe starting with an estimate on when .h files might be made > compatible. They're doing code reviewing right now to decide which part of which base will be included and Jun-ichiro said -- he'll correct me if I got this wrong -- that they planned to have it by summer '99. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 15:13:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11469 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:13:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11460 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:13:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA60662; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:13:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:13:39 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812152313.PAA60662@apollo.backplane.com> To: Dan Nelson Cc: David Wolfskill , ambrisko@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/8183 References: <199812151945.LAA09463@pau-amma.whistle.com> <199812151950.LAA59883@apollo.backplane.com> <19981215154146.A46153@emsphone.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ok, I've comitted a change to remove the signal mask prior to calling exec. I'd appreciate it if Whistle could test it. I'm not sure this is causing the problem, but it is the only thing I can think of. -Matt :> Anyone know for sure? : :It does not. manpage for signal(3): : : When a process which has installed signal handlers forks, the : child process inherits the signals. All caught signals may be : reset to their default action by a call to the execve(2) function; : ignored signals remain ignored. : :Note that this affects any background program run via "nohup" also. If :you run "nohup program &", don't expect to be able to kill -HUP it :later. This was discussed a little on the mysql mailinglist, when :FreeBSD people noticed that they couldn't kill the server (mysql uses :-QUIT to exit, and nohup blocks HUP and QUIT). : : -Dan Nelson : dnelson@emsphone.com : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 15:14:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11428 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:13:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ns1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11419 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:12:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (screen2r.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.1]) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/BNET-98/09/30-E) with ESMTP id PAA08710 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:12:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13339; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id SAA09979; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:12:16 -0500 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23805; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:11:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199812152311.SAA23805@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM Subject: Expanding the MSGBUF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:11:41 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Using 3.0-RELEASE, I am booting with -v and the output of dmesg is getting chopped off at the beginning. So I looked through the code and found that MSGBUF_SIZE controls this. I then went to LINT and found the line: OPTIONS "MSGBUF_SIZE=40960" So I added that to my config, did a config, make clean, make depend, make, and make install, and re-booted. Seems to have no effect. Is this the correct way to do this, or is config broken? Going and whacking the value of MSGBUF_SIZE in /sys/sys/msgbuf.h didn't help either. Am I all wet? -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 978 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 15:16:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11756 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:16:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11751 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:16:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA60759; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:16:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:16:30 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812152316.PAA60759@apollo.backplane.com> To: Dan Nelson Cc: David Wolfskill , ambrisko@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/8183 References: <199812151945.LAA09463@pau-amma.whistle.com> <199812151950.LAA59883@apollo.backplane.com> <19981215154146.A46153@emsphone.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> I wonder... does exec() clear blocked signals? I assumed it did. :> Anyone know for sure? : :It does not. manpage for signal(3): : : When a process which has installed signal handlers forks, the : child process inherits the signals. All caught signals may be : reset to their default action by a call to the execve(2) function; : ignored signals remain ignored. : :Note that this affects any background program run via "nohup" also. If :you run "nohup program &", don't expect to be able to kill -HUP it : -Dan Nelson : dnelson@emsphone.com man page for execve. blocked signals definitely remain blocked. oops! Signals set to be ignored in the calling process are set to be ignored in the new process. Signals which are set to be caught in the calling pro- cess image are set to default action in the new process image. Blocked signals remain blocked regardless of changes to the signal action. The signal stack is reset to be undefined (see sigaction(2) for more informa- tion). -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 15:22:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12118 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:22:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rembrandt.esys.ca (rembrandt.esys.ca [198.161.92.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12113 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:22:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lyndon@execmail.com) Received: from execmail.com (zappa.esys.ca [198.161.92.28]) by rembrandt.esys.ca (2.1-beta-1/8.9.1/Execmail 2.1) with ESMTP id QAA07287 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:19:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199812152319.QAA07287@rembrandt.esys.ca> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:19:12 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Subject: AIC7890 Support for 2.2.8 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone out there backported AIC7890 support into the ahc driver for 2.2.8? We have a pair of AHA-2940U2W boards we need to get into production. (3.x isn't an option until NFS is solid.) -- Finger lyndon@execmail.com for PGP key. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 15:25:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12367 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:25:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12360 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:25:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA60855; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:25:51 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812152325.PAA60855@apollo.backplane.com> To: John Polstra Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :On 15-Dec-98 Matthew Dillon wrote: : :> Hmmm. At BEST, we do a sort of stacking. We break the CVS :> tree out into a source tree on a read-only partition. We :... :> When we need to make a local hack, we break the softlink. When :> we update the underlying source, we diff any broken softlinks :... :I'm curious -- have you tried amd's "union" filesystem type? It tries :to automate what you're doing. I've played around with it a little :bit, but haven't attempted to use it on a large scale. : : John Polstra jdp@polstra.com No, not for something this critical. I don't trust "union". -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 15:31:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13044 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:31:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13039 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:31:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA07017; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:31:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA17643; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:31:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199812152325.PAA60855@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:31:27 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >:I'm curious -- have you tried amd's "union" filesystem type? It tries >:to automate what you're doing. I've played around with it a little >:bit, but haven't attempted to use it on a large scale. > > No, not for something this critical. I don't trust "union". Wait, it's not the same as the BSD union filesystem. It's just amd managing a forest of symbolic links, very similar to what you're already doing manually. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 15:43:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14475 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:43:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14469 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:43:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA61010; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:43:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:43:49 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812152343.PAA61010@apollo.backplane.com> To: John Polstra Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ah! I'll look at it. Sounds interesting. -Matt :> No, not for something this critical. I don't trust "union". : :Wait, it's not the same as the BSD union filesystem. It's just amd :managing a forest of symbolic links, very similar to what you're :already doing manually. : :John :--- : John Polstra jdp@polstra.com : John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA : "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." : -- H. L. Mencken : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 15:50:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15385 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:50:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15378 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:50:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA10731; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:48:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:48:31 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199812152348.PAA10731@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, dnelson@emsphone.com Subject: Re: bin/8183 Cc: ambrisko@whistle.com, dhw@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812152313.PAA60662@apollo.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:13:39 -0800 (PST) >From: Matthew Dillon > ok, I've comitted a change to remove the signal mask prior to calling > exec. I'd appreciate it if Whistle could test it. I'm not sure this > is causing the problem, but it is the only thing I can think of. Preliminary results are encouraging: the "amcheck" does not fail (so far). Please note that before the inetd change of a few days ago, it took a few days for the symptoms to recur on the machine in question. Thus, we do not yet know if the problem is solved. We do know that the issue of unblocking the signals for inted seems to have taken care of the immediate symptoms, which is Definitely Good. [Matt, you may recall that breaking things is one of my specialties....] david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 15:55:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16374 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:55:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16369 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:54:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA05207; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:35:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:35:47 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Matthew Dillon cc: John Polstra , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: idea/help w. mirroring In-Reply-To: <199812152325.PAA60855@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > :On 15-Dec-98 Matthew Dillon wrote: > : > :> Hmmm. At BEST, we do a sort of stacking. We break the CVS > :> tree out into a source tree on a read-only partition. We > :... > :> When we need to make a local hack, we break the softlink. When > :> we update the underlying source, we diff any broken softlinks > :... > :I'm curious -- have you tried amd's "union" filesystem type? It tries > :to automate what you're doing. I've played around with it a little > :bit, but haven't attempted to use it on a large scale. > : > : John Polstra jdp@polstra.com > > No, not for something this critical. I don't trust "union". > Your eye's may have played tricks on you like mine did, he's talking about some option of AMD (i assume the automounter), not union_fs :) Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current > -Matt > > Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet > Communications & God knows what else. > (Please include original email in any response) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 16:44:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24511 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:44:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news2.du.gtn.com (news2.du.gtn.com [194.77.9.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24506 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:44:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely5.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (cicely.de [194.231.9.142]) by news2.du.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id BAA23046; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:44:10 +0100 (MET) Received: from cicely.cicely.de (cicely.cicely.de [10.1.3.3]) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id BAA19168; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:44:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from cicely5.cicely.de (cicely5.cicely.de [10.1.5.7]) by cicely.cicely.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14761; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:44:04 +0100 (CET) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely5.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) id BAA03992; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:44:00 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981216014400.20185@cicely.de> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:44:00 +0100 From: Bernd Walter To: Charles Owens , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS thoughts References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Charles Owens on Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 10:10:16AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 10:10:16AM -0500, Charles Owens wrote: > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Bernd Walter wrote: > > > I saw the same on my private hosts. > > Everythings the same to your case instead that I have a 100MBit FreeBSD Router > > between them. All lines are running Full-Duplex Point-to-Point. > > In my case I have a syslogentry telling me about a server down under some load > > and it took minutes till it says that the server is up again. > > It happend when using NFS3/TCP at this moment I'm using NFS2/UDP and it won't > > hang. > > I was at the Usenix LISA conference last week and in one of the > tutorials the issue of NFSv3/TCP stability and interoperability came > up. > > One user reported the SGI<->Solaris and even SGI<->SGI NFSv3 mounts > were flakey (with similar symptoms as described here). He eventually > traced the problem to the NFSv3/TCP's use of larger buffersizes. > These result in more intense bursts of network activity which would at > times overrun buffers in his Ethernet switch. He convinced his A switch should never have overruns. If a buffer gets full a switch is able to top receiving. On Half-Duplex lines a switch usualy create some collinsions on the receiving port top slow down thne sender. On Full-Duplex Ports there's a compareable method for doing the same. In any case it's a broken switch, nic, nic-driver or configuration of them. Very often people don't check their ethernets for errors due to Duplex-missonfigurations > network vendor to replace the switch with another with deeper buffers, > and his problem went away! > > With the original switch he found that the default 32K read/write > buffer size (as compared to UDP's default of 8K) was too much, but by > limiting it to 16K he was able to get by, but with some reduction in > performance. > > Could this be the issue that is plaguing our attempts to use NFSv3 > with FreeBSD? Or are there other known defects that are at fault. In my case there is only a FreeBSD Router between them. All Line are without any known problems. > > I'm guessing that with FreeBSD we'd use the -r and -w options of mount_nfs > to limit the read and write buffer sizes, though the manpage description > isn't quite as informative as what's provided with the Solaris: > > rsize=n Set the read buffer size to n bytes. > The default value is 32768 when using > Version 3 of the NFS protocol. When > using Version 2, the default value is > 8192. > > Does this mount_nfs option from Solaris indeed work the same way as > FreeBSD's -r option? > > later, > --- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Charles N. Owens Email: owensc@enc.edu > http://www.enc.edu/~owensc > Network & Systems Administrator > Information Technology Services "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's > Eastern Nazarene College best friend. Inside of a dog it's > too dark to read." - Groucho Marx > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- B.Walter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 16:52:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25384 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:52:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25378 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:52:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA03197; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:21:35 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA18153; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:21:36 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981216112135.T15815@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:21:35 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Robert Withrow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Expanding the MSGBUF References: <199812152311.SAA23805@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199812152311.SAA23805@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com>; from Robert Withrow on Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 06:11:41PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 15 December 1998 at 18:11:41 -0500, Robert Withrow wrote: > Using 3.0-RELEASE, I am booting with -v and the output of dmesg > is getting chopped off at the beginning. So I looked through the > code and found that MSGBUF_SIZE controls this. I then went to > LINT and found the line: > > OPTIONS "MSGBUF_SIZE=40960" > > So I added that to my config, did a config, make clean, make depend, > make, and make install, and re-booted. Seems to have no effect. > > Is this the correct way to do this, or is config broken? Going and > whacking the value of MSGBUF_SIZE in /sys/sys/msgbuf.h didn't help > either. Am I all wet? Strange. I've done almost exactly this on my system (set it to 32768 instead of 40960), and it works fine. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 16:54:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25549 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:54:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25539 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:54:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22521; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:54:03 GMT (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA06875; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:53:46 GMT (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199812160053.AAA06875@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: MIHIRA Sanpei Yoshiro cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, luigi@iet.unipi.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ESS1868 patches In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:56:25 +0900." <199812130756.QAA24183@lavender.yy.cs.keio.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:53:46 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >The other patches (http://www.jp.freebsd.org/~sanpei/pcm0-ESS.tar.gz) > >seem to be for 2.2 only :-/ I run -current on my laptop, so I can't > >test them. > > Sorry, I forgot to update these files. > > I created tarball only for 2.2, but I maintain sys/i386/isa/snd > files for releng22 and 3.0-RELEASE and current tree. > > http://www.jp.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ESS/?cvsroot=freebsd-jp > > and you can get latest snap files via CVSup from > cvsup.jp.FreeBSD.ORG, jp-ess as collection name. > > Tag names are same as original FreeBSD source CVS repository, > RELENG_2_2, head. And especially for 3.0-RELEASE is RELENG_3_0_0. > > Now I create snap-shot tarball for all branches. > > http://www.jp.freebsd.org/~sanpei/snd-ESS-2.2-19981213.tar.gz > http://www.jp.freebsd.org/~sanpei/snd-ESS-3.0R-19981213.tar.gz > http://www.jp.freebsd.org/~sanpei/snd-ESS-current-19981213.tar.gz Hi, I tried the -current archive, and it works fine here. I'll bow out at this point and leave it to the powers that be to determine the best way forward.... sorry for sticking my nose in ;-/ > Cheers. > MIHIRA Yoshiro. Thanks everyone. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 17:11:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27452 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:11:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27445 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:11:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05482; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:41:19 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199812152319.QAA07287@rembrandt.esys.ca> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:41:07 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Lyndon Nerenberg Subject: RE: AIC7890 Support for 2.2.8 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15-Dec-98 Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > Has anyone out there backported AIC7890 support into the ahc driver for > 2.2.8? We have a pair of AHA-2940U2W boards we need to get into > production. (3.x isn't an option until NFS is solid.) You need to use the 2.2.x CAM patches.. They seem to work OK :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 18:28:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07503 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:28:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgate.fore.com (mailgate.fore.com [169.144.68.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07498 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:28:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rv@fore.com) Received: from mailman.fore.com (mailman.fore.com [169.144.2.12]) by mailgate.fore.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA22628 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:28:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from sol.eng.fore.com (sol [169.144.155.73]) by mailman.fore.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03392 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:28:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from agastya.eng.fore.com (agastya [169.144.1.196]) by sol.eng.fore.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06036 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:28:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (rv@localhost) by agastya.eng.fore.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA19645 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:28:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199812160228.VAA19645@agastya.eng.fore.com> X-Authentication-Warning: agastya.eng.fore.com: rv owned process doing -bs X-Authentication-Warning: agastya.eng.fore.com: rv@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New Port: cons - a perl-based make replacement. Reply-to: rv@fore.com X-Mailer: MH v6.8.3 X-LoopDetect: rv@eng.fore.com Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:28:22 -0500 From: Rajesh Vaidheeswarran Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Folks, I would like to announce the existence of a new port in the -current "ports" tree. This is `cons' - a Perl-based `make' replacement. Since I maintain `cons', I would be very interested in getting your feedback on it. Please do check it out and let me know what you like and don't like. For those who are very interested in shaping the evolution of cons, there is a mailing list that you can get on to: cons-discuss@eng.fore.com Thank you, rv To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 18:49:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA09454 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:49:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (goldfish.pht.co.jp [210.171.55.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA09446 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:49:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00452; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:47:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812160247.SAA00452@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Steve Kargl cc: bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu (M. L. Dodson), mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:22:09 PST." <199812151722.JAA67152@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:46:56 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > According to M. L. Dodson: > > Mike Smith writes: > >>> If I might, I would like to suggest that any project along this > >>> line look to include g77 as well as C++ as part of the base > >>> system. This would help those of us interested in using FBSD for > >>> number crunching. I can generate some testing time, including > >>> compiling and testing some pretty hefty computational chemistry > >> > >> Can you clarify for us why having g77 in the base system, rather than > >> an easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port would be worthwhile? > > f77 = stock f2c+gcc > g77 = from egcs-1.1.1 port > pgf77 = Portland Group Fortran compilers for linux > > The compiled program computes the acoustical scattering from > an elastic spherical shell using standard partial wave analysis. This doesn't sound to me like any sort of justification. In fact, it looks like a specific application, and more to the point, a strong argument for having it a port. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 19:31:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13241 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:31:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from systemy.systemy.it (systemy.systemy.it [194.20.140.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA13236 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:30:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luppolo.lpds.sublink.org!wcp@systemy.systemy.it) Received: by systemy.systemy.it (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0zq7fk-0003zBC; Wed, 16 Dec 98 04:30 MET Received: from luppolo.lpds.sublink.org (luppolo.lpds.sublink.org [192.9.200.50]) by radikkio.lpds.sublink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA16130 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:11:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wcp@luppolo.lpds.sublink.org) Received: (from wcp@localhost) by luppolo.lpds.sublink.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00393; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:17:18 +0100 (CET) From: "Walter C. Pelissero" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:17:18 +0100 (CET) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Auto power off for poor people X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13942.39950.631562.882793@luppolo.lpds.sublink.org> Reply-To: wcp@lpds.sublink.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Since I think it might be of general interest (I saw a few requests in freebsd-questions), here are the patches I made to a 2.2.7 system to get the power-off-on-shutdown feature. I have to admit this is a dirty hack made in hurry just to have my ATX mainboard do power off on shutdown. It consists basically of code cut'n'pasted from 3.0. BTW it introduces a warning message during compilation of kern_shutdown.c. Who cares? While at this. It would be nice to have a shutdown on power-off switch in FreeBSD 3.0. Judging from the switch block in apm_processevent() function it seems there is not even an hook for a daemon doing this kind of job. PMEV_POWERSTATECHANGE is ignored. Am I wrong? *** /sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c.dist Tue Dec 15 18:22:15 1998 --- /sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c Tue Dec 15 18:22:15 1998 *************** *** 226,231 **** --- 226,235 ---- } splhigh(); if (howto & RB_HALT) { + /* Kludge for APM power off. + Waiting for FreeBSD 3.0 -wcp12/15/98. */ + apm_power_off(0, 0); + printf("\n"); printf("The operating system has halted.\n"); printf("Please press any key to reboot.\n\n"); *** /sys/i386/apm/apm.c.dist Tue Dec 15 18:58:55 1998 --- /sys/i386/apm/apm.c Tue Dec 15 18:58:56 1998 *************** *** 237,242 **** --- 237,259 ---- return 0; } + /* + * Turn off the entire system. + */ + void + apm_power_off(int howto, void *junk) + { + u_long eax, ebx, ecx; + + /* Not halting powering off, or not active */ + if (!apm_softc.active) + return; + eax = (APM_BIOS << 8) | APM_SETPWSTATE; + ebx = PMDV_ALLDEV; + ecx = PMST_OFF; + apm_int(&eax, &ebx, &ecx); + } + /* APM Battery low handler */ static void apm_battery_low(struct apm_softc *sc) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 21:05:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22907 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:05:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from is.lamefree.com (is.lamefree.com [209.84.188.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22902 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:05:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dthunder@is.lamefree.com) Received: from localhost (dthunder@localhost) by is.lamefree.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA01129 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:05:36 GMT Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:05:36 +0000 (GMT) From: dthunder To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Firewall (IPFW) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I tried to enable Firewall and set rules with IPFW many times, but I never get it to work. Can some1 post me your working rc.firewall? Thank you. Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 21:33:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25143 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:33:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA25138 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:33:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zq9aK-0005C4-00; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:33:20 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA09345; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:31:44 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199812160531.WAA09345@harmony.village.org> To: wcp@lpds.sublink.org Subject: Re: Auto power off for poor people Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:17:18 +0100." <13942.39950.631562.882793@luppolo.lpds.sublink.org> References: <13942.39950.631562.882793@luppolo.lpds.sublink.org> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:31:43 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <13942.39950.631562.882793@luppolo.lpds.sublink.org> "Walter C. Pelissero" writes: : Since I think it might be of general interest (I saw a few requests in : freebsd-questions), here are the patches I made to a 2.2.7 system to : get the power-off-on-shutdown feature. I think that Mike Smith has already implemented this. : While at this. It would be nice to have a shutdown on power-off : switch in FreeBSD 3.0. Judging from the switch block in : apm_processevent() function it seems there is not even an hook for a : daemon doing this kind of job. PMEV_POWERSTATECHANGE is ignored. Am : I wrong? FreeBSD power management is in the kernel. There are no provisions for having a daemon control this. I'd like there to be either a loadable module that copes, or a userland daemon with an expansion of the apm interface. I have a kludge shell script somewhere that is a proof of concept for a battery daemon for my Libretto so I could suspend it when idle and the machine is plugged in and the battery charge isn't 100%. It would sleep for 2x 100 - the percentage of battery minutes and then wake up again. My Libretto 50 doesn't charge while on.... However, the script is a total kludge and I'd rather have some simple tcl driven (or perl drive, I don't care which scripting language) powerd that would allow me to do things like this. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 15 22:37:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00500 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:37:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00494 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:37:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA72686; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:45:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812160645.WAA72686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812160247.SAA00452@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Dec 15, 1998 6:46:56 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:45:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Mike Smith: > > According to M. L. Dodson: > > > Mike Smith writes: > > >>> If I might, I would like to suggest that any project along this > > >>> line look to include g77 as well as C++ as part of the base > > >>> system. This would help those of us interested in using FBSD for > > >>> number crunching. I can generate some testing time, including > > >>> compiling and testing some pretty hefty computational chemistry > > >> > > >> Can you clarify for us why having g77 in the base system, rather than > > >> an easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port would be worthwhile? > > > > f77 = stock f2c+gcc > > g77 = from egcs-1.1.1 port > > pgf77 = Portland Group Fortran compilers for linux > > > > The compiled program computes the acoustical scattering from > > an elastic spherical shell using standard partial wave analysis. > > This doesn't sound to me like any sort of justification. In fact, it > looks like a specific application, and more to the point, a strong > argument for having it a port. > A 33% increase in execution time doesn't seem like a good justification? Justification: 1. g77 is designed with knowledge of the FSF backend. This permits great optimization in the generated binary. This translates to faster execution for any application. 2. g77 includes libU77 which provides access to the environment. 3. Actively maintained. 4. Well documented. 5. g77 contains many extensions to the deprecated Fortran 77 standard that are commonly found in commerical products (i.e., Fortran code port much easier). 6. M. Smith said --> "easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port". Ha Ha Ha. head -4 /usr/ports/lang/g77/Makefile # New ports collection makefile for: GNU Fortran # Version required: 0.5.19.1 # Space required: >= 10MB # Date created: Wed Mar 22 18:51:05 MET 1995 This is ancient. The current version is 0.5.24. 7. An egcs port works. But, everyone who does any number crunching will be wasting large amounts a disk space because of the massive redundancy in /usr/{bin,lib,share/{info,man}} and /usr/local/{bin,lib,info,share/man} -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 01:00:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA13065 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:00:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA13060 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:00:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dirk.vangulik@jrc.it) Received: from jrc.it (elpc51.jrc.it [139.191.71.51]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with ESMTP id KAA27425 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:00:58 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3677760D.B7B7A4FA@jrc.it> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:57:49 +0100 From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik Organization: ISIS/STA - Joint Research Center of the European Commission X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: EADDRINUSE rather than EADDRNOTAVAIL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Larry Baird wrote: > In article <367664AE.D50A3A75@jrc.it> you wrote: > : I've got a small database transaction client/server pair. It is > : to accomplish serialisation of a db shared by a couple of web > : servers on a handfull of machines. The backend is DD; typical > : transaction speeds are in the 50/client/second; and 1500/server/second. > Look at http://www.ibrado.com/sock-faq/ for the answer to your question. Nice plug, for a very good FAQ. However the question I am seeking to get answered is is a bit more complex; or my brain is just not into gear to spot it. On a busy client; after opening and closing a couple of 100 tcp/ip sockets in the AF family to the server on another machine I am getting EADDRINUSE as it seems to run out of its local ports. 1. now why is this. Surely a couple of hundred open should not be an issue. 2. and why do I not get something lik EADDRNOTAVAIL ? I mean the kernel should make sure that the port is not in use when I ask for one. 3. and what can I tune to 'fix' this. Or would this be caused by me shooting myself in the foot by increasing the FD_SETSIZE (for more FDs) and BSIZE=256 to get past the 101-254 hole in delayed send. Thanks, Dw. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 03:07:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24609 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:07:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pens.ion.sci.fi (pens.ion.sci.fi [195.74.8.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24595 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:07:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaipila@pens.ion.sci.fi) Received: (from kaipila@localhost) by pens.ion.sci.fi (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09087; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:06:12 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kaipila) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Jamie Bowden Subject: Re: Source address References: From: Antti Kaipila Date: 16 Dec 1998 13:06:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: Jamie Bowden's message of "Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:32:06 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: <87r9u0tkgr.fsf@pens.ion.sci.fi> Lines: 63 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So. If there is no current solution to this problem, I'm thinking of doing the neccesary modifications to the kernel. I'm not a kernel hacker but this problem does'nt seem too hard to solve. So I'd like to get your oppinnions. I'm thinking of using the sysctl interface to the kernel. Introduce a new variable and if this variable is set outgoing packets are given source address described in this variable. This would be done just before the source address is set to the outgoing interface if it's not already set. (in ip_output.c) I really have no real clue if this is the right way to go it's just my first idea and I'd like to hear whay you think about it. Thanks. Jamie Bowden writes: > On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Richard Smith wrote: > > > Antti Kaipila wrote: > > > > > > I have a interesting problem here. I have FreeBSD accting as a router > > > between our LAN and Internet. I have a ET5025 card as interface eth0 and > > > Intel EtherExpress as interface fxp0. > > > > > > eth0 has address 10.156.214.2 and remote ends address is 10.156.214.1. > > > fxp0 has address 195.74.8.138 > > > > > > So, now when I try to connect from this machine acting as router to > > > anywhere on the internet my source address get set to > > > 10.156.214.2. Which is not nice, because all routers are dropping my > > > packets thinking they should'nt be routed (that's the right thing to > > > do ofcourse). > > > > > > Is there any way around this? > > > > You need to run natd on your FBSD router, so that all packets 'appear' > > to > > originate from *it* (195.74.8.138). See man natd. > > Not quite. His ISP is using 1918 networks between routers. > > I do this as well. With Cisco you can set the primary IP of the router, > and all traffic appears to come from that IP, no matter which interface it > goes through. If there is a way to have FreeBSD always report the > connection as coming from it's usable IP, all that has to be done is to do > it, but I don't know if FreeBSD can do that. > > Jamie Bowden > > -- > Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net > > If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. > -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- Antti Kaipila To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 03:32:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA27072 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:32:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ruhrgebiet.individual.net (in-ruhr.ruhr.de [141.39.224.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA27067 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:32:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bs@adimus.de) Received: (from admin@localhost) by mail.ruhrgebiet.individual.net (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5) with UUCP id MAA23283 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:02:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail by mx.adimus.de with local (Exim 1.92 #1) for hackers@freebsd.org id 0zqENP-0000F7-00; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:40:19 +0100 Received: from det.adimus.de(192.168.0.1) via SMTP by adimus.de, id smtpdZAJ796; Wed Dec 16 11:40:12 1998 Received: from bs by det.adimus.de with local (Exim 1.92 #1) for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG id 0zqENG-00027Q-00; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:40:10 +0100 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) References: <199812160645.WAA72686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Benedikt Stockebrand Date: 16 Dec 1998 11:40:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: Steve Kargl's message of "Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:45:02 -0800 (PST)" Message-ID: Lines: 77 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've really tried to stay out of this discussion, but what the fsck... Steve Kargl writes: > According to Mike Smith: > > > This doesn't sound to me like any sort of justification. In fact, it > > looks like a specific application, and more to the point, a strong > > argument for having it a port. > > > > A 33% increase in execution time doesn't seem like a good justification? It doesn't justify it being part of the base installation. It'll slow down turnaround times for ``make world'' with only an almost negligible fraction of users actually using fortran. \begin{flame} I'm not sure if you don't understand the distinction between the base system and the ports collection or don't want to accept the fact that fortran isn't considered "basic" functionality these days anymore. > [Assorted fortran hype snipped] All claimed advantages have absolutely nothing to do with the question of placing your fortran compiler in the base system instead of a port. > 6. M. Smith said --> "easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port". > Ha Ha Ha. > > head -4 /usr/ports/lang/g77/Makefile > # New ports collection makefile for: GNU Fortran > # Version required: 0.5.19.1 > # Space required: >= 10MB > # Date created: Wed Mar 22 18:51:05 MET 1995 > > This is ancient. The current version is 0.5.24. Then check out the handbook and FAQs to see how to contribute an updated port. I'm sure if you volunteer to maintain that port you're perfectly welcome. Or is it that you're just trying to make someone do the work for you? > 7. An egcs port works. But, everyone who does any number crunching will > be wasting large amounts a disk space because of the massive redundancy > in /usr/{bin,lib,share/{info,man}} and /usr/local/{bin,lib,info,share/man} "Wasting large amounts of disk space" on everyones system because the base installation comes with fortran is negligible or what? Sorry, but if you don't want to provide a couple megs of disk space for a second fortran-optimized gcc setup you shouldn't try to force a couple megs of disk space down every one elses throat^WSCSI bus. BTW, I'm fairly sick about xemacs and plain GNU emacs not sharing the same elisp packages. Why don't we put both of them in the base system configured to share their elisp directories? \end{flame} But seriously, if the BSDs have one huge advantage over assorted Linux distributions and most commercial Un*xen then it's that it comes with a fairly small base installation. Add whatever you want to the ports collection but keep the base system small. Ben -- Benedikt Stockebrand Adimus Beratungsgesellschaft für System- System Administration & Design, und Netzwerkadministration mbH & Co KG IT Security, Remote System Mgmt Universitätsstr. 142, 44799 Bochum Opinions presented are my own. Tel. (02 34) 971 971 -2, Fax -9 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 04:20:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA04095 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:20:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from schuimpje.snt.utwente.nl (schuimpje.snt.utwente.nl [130.89.238.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA03951 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:19:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gelderen@mediaport.org) Received: from wit395306.student.utwente.nl ([130.89.235.126]:9476 "HELO deskfix" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE[2]") by schuimpje.snt.utwente.nl with SMTP id <8099-18882>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:18:36 +0100 Message-ID: <002101be28ee$0fb4fec0$1400000a@deskfix.local> From: "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" To: "Steve Kargl" Cc: Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:17:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Steve Kargl >A 33% increase in execution time doesn't seem like a good justification? It certainly isn't a good justification for putting Fortran in the base system. The majority of users never uses fortran and as long as that is the case, Fortran doesn't belong in the base system. >1. g77 is designed with knowledge of the FSF backend. This permits [...] >5. g77 contains many extensions to the deprecated Fortran 77 standard > that are commonly found in commerical products (i.e., Fortran code > port much easier). See above. >6. M. Smith said --> "easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port". > Ha Ha Ha. > > head -4 /usr/ports/lang/g77/Makefile > # New ports collection makefile for: GNU Fortran > # Version required: 0.5.19.1 > # Space required: >= 10MB > # Date created: Wed Mar 22 18:51:05 MET 1995 > > This is ancient. The current version is 0.5.24. Yes, it's ancient. That probably means that nobody is interested in creating a port for Fortran. But that doesn't mean Fortran should go into the base system. It means that the port should be fixed. >7. An egcs port works. But, everyone who does any number crunching will > be wasting large amounts a disk space because of the massive redundancy > in /usr/{bin,lib,share/{info,man}} and /usr/local/{bin,lib,info,share/man} Fortran in the base system would require everybody to waste diskspace on Fortran. Your egcs waste wouldn't be much more than a couple of 100 MBs. If you can't accept that, please step forward and create a decent port. Or try and find someone on the list who can help you out. Cheers, Jeroen -- Jeroen C. van Gelderen -- gelderen@mediaport.org -- &[8-D}~<= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 05:02:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09645 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:02:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA09636 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:02:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from guido@gvr.org) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.gvr.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA05993 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:02:44 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981216140244.A5966@gvr.org> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:02:44 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: tcp bug on reeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Underneath a log of a connection between my system and wcarchive. 03:00:04.014342 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: S 3641921983:3641921983(0 ) win 16384 (DF) 03:00:04.552606 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: S 3383878865:3383878865(0 ) ack 3641921984 win 17520 03:00:04.554559 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: . ack 3383878866 win 1752 0 (DF) 03:00:09.621134 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: P 3383878866:3383878957(9 1) ack 3641921984 win 17520 [tos 0x10] 03:00:09.625468 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: P 3641921984:3641922000(1 6) ack 3383878957 win 17520 (DF) 03:00:10.696185 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: . ack 3641922000 win 1750 4 [tos 0x10] 03:00:10.789549 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: F 3383879419:3383879419(0 ) ack 3641922000 win 17520 [tos 0x10] 03:00:10.791439 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: . ack 3383878957 win 1752 0 (DF) 03:00:10.865450 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: P 3383878957:3383879419(4 62) ack 3641922000 win 17520 [tos 0x10] 03:00:10.868537 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: . ack 3383879420 win 1705 8 (DF) 03:00:10.874507 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: P 3641922000:3641922006(6 ) ack 3383879420 win 17520 (DF) 03:00:10.893632 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: F 3641922006:3641922006(0 ) ack 3383879420 win 17520 (DF) 03:00:11.381719 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: R 3383879420:3383879420(0 ) win 0 I think wcarchive is not behaving okay by sending the RST. Wcarchive is in the FIN-WAIT-1 or FIN-WAIT-2 state and from what I see in the rfc, wcarchive may only send an RST if: 3. If the connection is in a synchronized state (ESTABLISHED, FIN-WAIT-1, FIN-WAIT-2, CLOSE-WAIT, CLOSING, LAST-ACK, TIME-WAIT), any unacceptable segment (out of window sequence number or unacceptible acknowledgment number) must elicit only an empty acknowledgment segment containing the current send-sequence number and an acknowledgment indicating the next sequence number expected to be received, and the connection remains in the same state. But the RST did not ack anything. But besides, the segment (3641922000:3641922006) is not an unacceptable segment accoriding to what thr RFC says. A half-close is a perfectly valid mechanism and my host is allowed to send additional segments to wcarchive. However, from looking at the RFC I can not discover how wcarchive should act. I think it should just ack 3641922000 again and have my host discover that the other end closed the connection. What do you guys think? -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 05:29:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12871 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:29:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA12866 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:29:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id XAA24220; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:59:03 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA22470; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:59:03 +1030 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:59:02 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" Cc: Steve Kargl , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <002101be28ee$0fb4fec0$1400000a@deskfix.local> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Jeroen C. van Gelderen wrote: > Fortran in the base system would require everybody to waste diskspace on > Fortran. Your egcs waste wouldn't be much more than a couple of 100 MBs. If > you can't accept that, please step forward and create a decent port. Or try > and find someone on the list who can help you out. Actually it's not that big..only a few MB, depending on what you install. It does take more space to build it, though - although once someone makes a port out of the egcs fortran compiler it can be pkg_added. Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 06:10:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18068 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:10:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atdot.dotat.org (atdot.dotat.org [203.23.150.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA18063 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:10:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from newton@atdot.dotat.org) Received: (from newton@localhost) by atdot.dotat.org (8.9.1/8.7) id AAA00737 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 00:39:21 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 00:39:21 +1030 (CST) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199812161409.AAA00737@atdot.dotat.org> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Exabyte EXB-8200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have an Exabyte EXB-8200 on one of my boxes which has been giving me faithful service under FreeBSD for ages. I upgraded that machine to 3.0-RELEASE last night, though, which included a switch to the CAM SCSI drivers. Since then, my Exabyte hasn't been working. ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 11 on pci0.9.0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs [ ... ] sa1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 6 lun 0 sa1: Removable Sequential Access SCSI1 device sa1: 3.300MB/s transfers No matter what I try to write to it, it reports that it has reached the end of its media -- dd says: atdot# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/nrsa1 bs=1024 dd: /dev/nrsa1: end of device dump gives me a change volume request before writing its first block, tar reports that it has written 0 of 10240 bytes and errors out. Are there any known problems with EXB-8200's? Do I need to change any jumper settings to make my drive work? Do I need a particular PROM revision? Doctor, will I ever play the piano again? Thanks in advance, - mark -------------------------------------------------------------------- I tried an internal modem, newton@atdot.dotat.org but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton ----- Voice: +61-4-1958-3414 ------------- Fax: +61-8-83034403 ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 06:59:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24526 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:59:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from root.com (root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24519 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:59:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@root.com) Received: from root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09803; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:00:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812161500.HAA09803@root.com> To: Guido van Rooij cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcp bug on reeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:02:44 +0100." <19981216140244.A5966@gvr.org> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:00:57 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Underneath a log of a connection between my system and wcarchive. > >03:00:04.014342 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: S 3641921983:3641921983(0 >) win 16384 (DF) >03:00:04.552606 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: S 3383878865:3383878865(0 >) ack 3641921984 win 17520 >03:00:04.554559 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: . ack 3383878866 win 1752 >0 (DF) >03:00:09.621134 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: P 3383878866:3383878957(9 >1) ack 3641921984 win 17520 [tos 0x10] >03:00:09.625468 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: P 3641921984:3641922000(1 >6) ack 3383878957 win 17520 (DF) >03:00:10.696185 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: . ack 3641922000 win 1750 >4 [tos 0x10] >03:00:10.789549 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: F 3383879419:3383879419(0 >) ack 3641922000 win 17520 [tos 0x10] >03:00:10.791439 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: . ack 3383878957 win 1752 >0 (DF) >03:00:10.865450 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: P 3383878957:3383879419(4 >62) ack 3641922000 win 17520 [tos 0x10] >03:00:10.868537 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: . ack 3383879420 win 1705 >8 (DF) >03:00:10.874507 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: P 3641922000:3641922006(6 >) ack 3383879420 win 17520 (DF) >03:00:10.893632 194.151.74.97.4871 > 209.155.82.18.21: F 3641922006:3641922006(0 >) ack 3383879420 win 17520 (DF) >03:00:11.381719 209.155.82.18.21 > 194.151.74.97.4871: R 3383879420:3383879420(0 >) win 0 > >I think wcarchive is not behaving okay by sending the RST. Wcarchive is >in the FIN-WAIT-1 or FIN-WAIT-2 state and from what I see in the rfc, >wcarchive may only send an RST if: > 3. If the connection is in a synchronized state (ESTABLISHED, > FIN-WAIT-1, FIN-WAIT-2, CLOSE-WAIT, CLOSING, LAST-ACK, TIME-WAIT), > any unacceptable segment (out of window sequence number or > unacceptible acknowledgment number) must elicit only an empty > acknowledgment segment containing the current send-sequence number > and an acknowledgment indicating the next sequence number expected > to be received, and the connection remains in the same state. > >But the RST did not ack anything. But besides, the segment >(3641922000:3641922006) is not an unacceptable segment accoriding >to what thr RFC says. A half-close is a perfectly valid mechanism >and my host is allowed to send additional segments to wcarchive. >However, from looking at the RFC I can not discover how wcarchive >should act. I think it should just ack 3641922000 again and have >my host discover that the other end closed the connection. > >What do you guys think? Well, the above shows that the port involved is the FTP control channel, which gets closed at the end of the session. I think the RST was in response to your 6 byte PUSHed packet, not your FIN packet. Since the application on wcarchive already closed it's end of the connection (as evidenced by the FIN that it sent), there is no longer a recipient of any data that might be sent to it. It seems to me that the appropriate response in a situation like this would be to send an RST in response to that data. Yes, a half-close is a valid mechanism, but you can only send to the side that hasn't closed yet. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 07:59:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01811 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:59:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beowulf.utmb.edu (beowulf.utmb.edu [129.109.59.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01796 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:59:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu) Received: (from bdodson@localhost) by beowulf.utmb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA01638; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:56:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:56:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199812161556.JAA01638@beowulf.utmb.edu> From: "M. L. Dodson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Benedikt Stockebrand CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: References: <199812160645.WAA72686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15p7 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Benedikt Stockebrand writes: > I've really tried to stay out of this discussion, but what the fsck... > And I was willing to let the matter drop, but the flame content of the replies to Steve Kargl's comments seem unwarranted IMO. So, let me point out to those who seem so unsympathetic (and I am NOT ANY LONGER SUGGESTING THE ADDITION OF FORTRAN TO THE BASE SYSTEM -- shouting done on purpose!) the basis of my suggestion (note that it was only a suggestion for consideration, done in what I thought was a very polite and helpful way, if you would be so kind as to verify from the archives) was that operating systems which might be considered "friendly" to large scale computation have, as a POLA issue, optimizing Fortran compilers either as part of the base system or as a very carefully integrated addon package, e.g., Irix of various flavors or Solaris. Now I'm going to try to justify why a port does not fall into that category, so if your eyes have begun to glaze over, hit the delete key now. Those of you that are still with me should know that my objective is only to add FBSD to the list of operating systems known to be friendly to number crunchers. The serious computation community is a small, intelligent (but often not well versed in Unix nuances) "market". Hell, they even thought VMS was OK. I just hate for all the press to go to the beowulf guys in that "market" or to have to always justify myself when I tell my fellow members of the "market" my choice is FBSD. And the default f77 may be O.K. to compile that old Adventure game you found in the back of the closet last spring or for computer science students to do their homework for their comparative programming languages course, but it isn't making it for serious scientific work. Now on to the meat of things. The crux of the issue is that people in this "market" frankly don't give a damn about operating systems, my dear. In fact, they look on computers as a necessarily evil even though computers are central to their work. So all of the arguments about the superiority of design, of the development model, etc, are totally lost on them. The one argument that they will listen to goes something like this: "I can tell you how to avoid buying that $25000 Octane and get the same capability on a $4000 PC". "Great, if I don't have to buy the Octane I can use the money for that new probe we've been wanting for the NMR spectrometer! Tell me what to order!" I give them specs on Dell's latest dual processor gadget, tell them how to get a Walnut Creek CD, tell them about XIG, etc. Now comes the crunch. They buy it, then email me to help them set it up. I go over the procedure, then they start to use it to continue development on their NMR data to molecular structure analysis software that they have had in continuous development by graduate students and postdocs for 20 years (none of whom ever had a computer science course). The big guy in the group emails me that the analysis system is dog slow after they got it to compile, even though my benchmarks say that this machine should be equivalent to an R10000 Octane on compute-bound jobs. I ask him if they compiled it with g77, and he emails me back saying "What's that?" I go through all the hooha about the ports system. There is a week or so pause, then he emails me back with something to the effect that they have decided to install Windows on the new Dell and give it to a secretary. It will make a hell of an email reader and Microsoft Word machine, what with the 512MB of memory and all. And, by the way, the next time I have some scatterbrained idea about how to save money, keep it to myself. Now I have two choices: accept the loss of credibility or "go do it for them", causing my own research to suffer along the way. I'm a real scientist with real career goals of my own, not a freelance system administrator for everyone on campus. The point is that these people have other fish to fry. Learning the nuances of a new version of Unix is a big deal to them. They might accept it if they can save money, but any obstacle, any difference from the way they are used to doing things, will cause some of them to drop out. So, what I was really asking for (and I probably phrased things so poorly that people missed the point) was the "carefully integrated" Fortran compilation environment alluded to above. I never meant modularity should be destroyed along the way or any restrictions should be put on the ongoing design process or that innocent bystanders should sacrifice 200MB of disk space to me. Maybe a "good" port is the way to go. I maintain, however, that having two gcc compilers after the installation, even though the correct one can be selected by manipulation of the path, is not productive to the objective I enunciated above. If this argument seems weak, so be it, I guess you had to have been there to appreciate it. But in any case, try to keep the finger pointing and accusations of dark motives to a minimum, O.K.? Bud Dodson -- M. L. Dodson bdodson@scms.utmb.edu 409-772-2178 FAX: 409-772-1790 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 08:47:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08896 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:47:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA08887 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:47:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from mango.parc.xerox.com ([13.1.102.232]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <53101(5)>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:47:41 PST Received: from mango.parc.xerox.com (localhost.parc.xerox.com [127.0.0.1]) by mango.parc.xerox.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13185; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:47:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@mango.parc.xerox.com) Message-Id: <199812161647.IAA13185@mango.parc.xerox.com> To: Guido van Rooij cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcp bug on reeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:02:44 PST." <19981216140244.A5966@gvr.org> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:47:32 PST From: Bill Fenner Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Was the *socket* half-closed, or fully closed? If it was fully closed, then wcarchive has no choice but to RST when you send it more data. Since there's nobody to deliver it to, ACK'ing the data is not appropriate. >I think it should just ack 3641922000 again and have >my host discover that the other end closed the connection. This will just cause your machine to retransmit the data until it gets ACK'd, which will be forever (even after you close the socket). Probably not a good idea. Also, then there would be no way to tell between a half-closed connection that is dropping all packets and a fully closed connection - imagine a bulk data transfer protocol in which a half-close by the receivier is OK. Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 08:52:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:52:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09639 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:52:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from guido@gvr.org) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.gvr.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA06983; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:52:17 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981216175217.A6979@gvr.org> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:52:17 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: dg@root.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcp bug on reeBSD References: <19981216140244.A5966@gvr.org> <199812161500.HAA09803@root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812161500.HAA09803@root.com>; from David Greenman on Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 07:00:57AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Well, the above shows that the port involved is the FTP control channel, > which gets closed at the end of the session. I think the RST was in response > to your 6 byte PUSHed packet, not your FIN packet. Since the application on > wcarchive already closed it's end of the connection (as evidenced by the > FIN that it sent), there is no longer a recipient of any data that might be > sent to it. It seems to me that the appropriate response in a situation like > this would be to send an RST in response to that data. > Yes, a half-close is a valid mechanism, but you can only send to the side > that hasn't closed yet. Ah..how stupid ;-() I indeed mixed up the server/client here. I;ll look later today exactly what my application (being mirror) wanted to send to the other side because that should not have happened at all. -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 08:55:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10157 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:55:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10150 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:55:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA25939; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:54:04 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma025937; Wed, 16 Dec 98 10:53:57 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10906; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:53:57 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199812161653.KAA10906@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <199812160645.WAA72686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <199812160645.WAA72686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: Steve Kargl cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:53:57 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why is any version of FORTRAN in the base system? Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 09:05:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11507 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:05:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [195.187.243.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11502 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:05:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA23845; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:09:43 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:09:43 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Greg Lehey cc: Robert Withrow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Expanding the MSGBUF In-Reply-To: <19981216112135.T15815@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 15 December 1998 at 18:11:41 -0500, Robert Withrow wrote: > > Using 3.0-RELEASE, I am booting with -v and the output of dmesg > > is getting chopped off at the beginning. So I looked through the > > code and found that MSGBUF_SIZE controls this. I then went to > > LINT and found the line: > > > > OPTIONS "MSGBUF_SIZE=40960" > > > > So I added that to my config, did a config, make clean, make depend, > > make, and make install, and re-booted. Seems to have no effect. > > > > Is this the correct way to do this, or is config broken? Going and > > whacking the value of MSGBUF_SIZE in /sys/sys/msgbuf.h didn't help > > either. Am I all wet? > > Strange. I've done almost exactly this on my system (set it to 32768 > instead of 40960), and it works fine. Guess who of you two recompiled the dmesg as well.. Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 09:13:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12804 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:13:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from teardrop.org (silver.teardrop.org [207.238.0.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12796 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:13:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sno@flesh.net) Received: from localhost (sno@localhost) by teardrop.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA02906 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:13:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sno@flesh.net) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:13:00 -0700 (MST) From: James Snow X-Sender: sno@silver.teardrop.org To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Tunneling GRE through NAT? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm writing here because of what I found via the mailing list search at www.freebsd.org: -- On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, M.C Wong wrote: > I wonder if there is any implementation, user-land or kernel, of > tunneling protocol based on GRE (rfc1701, rfc1702) ? I remember some rumblings in -hackers about someone implementing a generic tunnelling system. I think a GRE tunnel was part of the inspiration for the project. Check the mail archives for info. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major -- Did this go anywhere? I have a number of Windows users who'd like to be able to access some WindowsNT based services using Microsoft's PPTP. As it stands, the WindowsNT machine is behind a FreeBSD machine running natd which is in turn behind a Cisco which acts as a firewall. I can pass PPTP packets (port 1723) through to the FreeBSD machine and I can pass the GRE packets associated with PPTP through to the FreeBSD machine. I can then tunnel the PPTP packets through natd to the NT box, but I haven't found any way to tunnel GRE through the NAT. Did this discussion of tunneling GRE through NAT ever go anywhere? Has anyone written any software that does this? Is there any reason why this would not be possible? (i.e., any reason why I shouldn't just pick up my network programming book and write it myself?) Any help is much appreciated. James Snow * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * We live in the short term | sno at teardrop dot org * * and hope for the best. | I am Geek. Hear me ^G * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 09:13:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12833 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:13:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12822 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:13:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA34726; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:11:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:11:41 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: "M. L. Dodson" cc: Benedikt Stockebrand , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812161556.JAA01638@beowulf.utmb.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, M. L. Dodson wrote: > Those of you that are still with me should know that my objective > is only to add FBSD to the list of operating systems known to be > friendly to number crunchers. Fine thing. [various deletions] > "I can tell you how to avoid buying that $25000 Octane and get the > same capability on a $4000 PC". > > "Great, if I don't have to buy the Octane I can use the money for > that new probe we've been wanting for the NMR spectrometer! Tell > me what to order!" [more deletions] > The big guy in the group emails > me that the analysis system is dog slow after they got it to > compile, even though my benchmarks say that this machine should > be equivalent to an R10000 Octane on compute-bound jobs. I ask > him if they compiled it with g77, and he emails me back saying > "What's that?" I go through all the hooha about the ports > system. Why? That's exactly why packages exist, so folks who don't give a damn about the process can simply have the software they want, with an absolute minimum of work. I don't know your audience like you [give me feedback here] but it *seems* like you missed a step here. If all they had to do was get the port off the cdrom, type pkg_add , and start using it, mightn't they still be around? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 10:40:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23304 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:40:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (bmcgover-pc.cisco.com [171.69.104.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23289 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:40:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (localhost.pa.dtd.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA00283 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:40:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Message-Id: <199812161840.NAA00283@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Support for multifunction PCI devices... Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:40:07 -0500 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a multi function (2 functions - 1 bridge, 1 memory controller) PCI card trying to run under FreeBSD 3.0. Apparently, FreeBSD isn't looking at the header type record to see that its a multi function (actually, the PCI code seems to be masking out the 0x80). So, I guess the questions are thus: a.) Does FreeBSD [3.0] support multifunction PCI adapters? b.) If so, where should I continue poking (pci.c?) to see why my second function is not made available as a pci device? -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 11:27:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28434 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:27:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28428 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA16907 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:27:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:27:21 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 To: hackers Subject: Question on lock Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the comment of vm_map_pageable() in file vm_map.c, there is a following sentence: "Because of problems in the recursive lock package, we cannot upgrade to a write lock in vm_map_lookup." Does the recursive lock package refer to kern_lock.c? There IS a lock_read_to_write() call in vm_map_lookup(). So why there is such a problem? Please give me some enlightenment. Any help is appreciated. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 11:36:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29663 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:36:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29658 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:36:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA75009; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:44:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812161944.LAA75009@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <002101be28ee$0fb4fec0$1400000a@deskfix.local> from "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" at "Dec 16, 1998 1:17:33 pm" To: gelderen@mediaport.org (Jeroen C. van Gelderen) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:44:12 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Jeroen C. van Gelderen: > From: Steve Kargl > >A 33% increase in execution time doesn't seem like a good justification? > > It certainly isn't a good justification for putting Fortran in the base > system. The majority of users never uses fortran and as long as that is the > case, Fortran doesn't belong in the base system. A Fortran compiler is already in the base system. It is inferiori to g77. > >6. M. Smith said --> "easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port". > > Ha Ha Ha. > > > > head -4 /usr/ports/lang/g77/Makefile > > # New ports collection makefile for: GNU Fortran > > # Version required: 0.5.19.1 > > # Space required: >= 10MB > > # Date created: Wed Mar 22 18:51:05 MET 1995 > > > > This is ancient. The current version is 0.5.24. > > Yes, it's ancient. That probably means that nobody is interested in creating > a port for Fortran. But that doesn't mean Fortran should go into the base > system. It means that the port should be fixed. It's ancient because the g77 maintainers are moving forward. They support the latest gcc+2.8.1 and egcs. When, and if they have time, they make patches available for the ancient gcc+2.7.2.1. > >7. An egcs port works. But, everyone who does any number crunching will > > be wasting large amounts a disk space because of the massive redundancy > > in /usr/{bin,lib,share/{info,man}} and > /usr/local/{bin,lib,info,share/man} > > Fortran in the base system would require everybody to waste diskspace on > Fortran. Your egcs waste wouldn't be much more than a couple of 100 MBs. If > you can't accept that, please step forward and create a decent port. Or try > and find someone on the list who can help you out. > You have no idea what you're talking about. Fortran is already in the base system. Incorporation of g77 would replace f77, f2c, libf2c, and their accompanying documentution. /usr/bin/g77 replaces /usr/bin/f77 and /usr/bin/f2c libg77 replaces libf2c. Yes, there is some bloat due to the addition of lubU77 in libg77. g77.1 replaces f77.1 and f2c.1 g77.info is new. But, we install gzipped info pages, so you're not wasting a ton of space. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 11:41:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00315 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:41:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00310 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:41:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from guido@gvr.org) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.gvr.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA07931; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:35:58 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981216203558.A7912@gvr.org> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:35:58 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: dg@root.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcp bug on reeBSD References: <19981216140244.A5966@gvr.org> <199812161500.HAA09803@root.com> <19981216175217.A6979@gvr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981216175217.A6979@gvr.org>; from Guido van Rooij on Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 05:52:17PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 05:52:17PM +0100, Guido van Rooij wrote: > > Ah..how stupid ;-() I indeed mixed up the server/client here. > I;ll look later today exactly what my application (being mirror) wanted > to send to the other side because that should not have happened at all. > I checked why my mirror sent these 6 bytes. What happened was that wcarchive had reached its maximum number of anonymous ftp users and after howing the banner just closed the control connection. Before my system got the FIN it tried to send a 'QUIT\r\n' which caused the RST from wcarchive. -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 11:44:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00594 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:44:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00589 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:44:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA75064; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:52:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812161952.LAA75064@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: from Benedikt Stockebrand at "Dec 16, 1998 11:40: 9 am" To: bs_13943_34262@adimus.de (Benedikt Stockebrand) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:52:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Benedikt Stockebrand: > I've really tried to stay out of this discussion, but what the fsck... > I understand why you should stay out of discussions you don't understand. > > Steve Kargl writes: > > > According to Mike Smith: > > > > > This doesn't sound to me like any sort of justification. In fact, it > > > looks like a specific application, and more to the point, a strong > > > argument for having it a port. > > > > > > > A 33% increase in execution time doesn't seem like a good justification? > > It doesn't justify it being part of the base installation. It'll slow > down turnaround times for ``make world'' with only an almost > negligible fraction of users actually using fortran. A Fortran compiler has been part of the base system since FreeBSD 1.1.5. > I'm not sure if you don't understand the distinction between the base > system and the ports collection or don't want to accept the fact that > fortran isn't considered "basic" functionality these days anymore. I fully understand the difference. I'm suggesting the replacement of current inferior functionality with a superior solution. > All claimed advantages have absolutely nothing to do with the question > of placing your fortran compiler in the base system instead of a port. There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. It is inferior. g77 provides a better replacement. > "Wasting large amounts of disk space" on everyones system because the > base installation comes with fortran is negligible or what? There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. It is inferior. g77 provides a better replacement. > Sorry, but if you don't want to provide a couple megs of disk space > for a second fortran-optimized gcc setup you shouldn't try to force a > couple megs of disk space down every one elses throat^WSCSI bus. There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. It is inferior. g77 provides a better replacement. > But seriously, if the BSDs have one huge advantage over assorted Linux > distributions and most commercial Un*xen then it's that it comes with > a fairly small base installation. Add whatever you want to the ports > collection but keep the base system small. agreed. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 11:51:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01946 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:51:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01939 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:51:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA81012; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:50:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:50:58 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812161950.LAA81012@apollo.backplane.com> To: zhihuizhang Cc: hackers Subject: Re: Question on lock References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :In the comment of vm_map_pageable() in file vm_map.c, there is a following :sentence: : :"Because of problems in the recursive lock package, we cannot upgrade to a :write lock in vm_map_lookup." : :Does the recursive lock package refer to kern_lock.c? There IS a :lock_read_to_write() call in vm_map_lookup(). So why there is such a :problem? Please give me some enlightenment. : :Any help is appreciated. There are probably deadlock problems associated with trying to upgrade the lock at that point. The whole locking methodology used in the kernel really needs a complete rewrite. -Matt :-------------------------------------------------- :| Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | :| Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | :-------------------------------------------------- : : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 12:07:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03443 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:07:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03438 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:07:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA07674; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:06:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA24553; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:06:51 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:06:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199812162006.NAA24553@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Steve Kargl Cc: bs_13943_34262@adimus.de (Benedikt Stockebrand), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812161952.LAA75064@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <199812161952.LAA75064@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > A Fortran compiler has been part of the base system since FreeBSD 1.1.5. Because there was no easy way of breaking it out in the old days. > > I'm not sure if you don't understand the distinction between the base > > system and the ports collection or don't want to accept the fact that > > fortran isn't considered "basic" functionality these days anymore. > > I fully understand the difference. I'm suggesting the replacement > of current inferior functionality with a superior solution. I think we should rip out the inferior solution and leave it out. However, taking functionality out of FreeBSD is harder than adding new functionality in. The existing code doesn't work well at all, and rather than bloat the tree with something that is rarely used, we should just live with the ability that it's easy to add Fortran to the base system as a package. > > All claimed advantages have absolutely nothing to do with the question > > of placing your fortran compiler in the base system instead of a port. > > There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 12:18:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04821 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:18:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04815 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:18:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA40534; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:17:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:17:05 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Steve Kargl cc: Benedikt Stockebrand , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812161952.LAA75064@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Steve Kargl wrote: > According to Benedikt Stockebrand: > > I've really tried to stay out of this discussion, but what the fsck... > > > > I understand why you should stay out of discussions you don't > understand. Steve, if you can't reply without getting personal, please take it to usenet. People here are mostly after intelligent discussions, not namecalling. You're probably all worked up (I've seen your previous posts, you're upset) so take a moment and reread what you've been sending. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 12:57:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09850 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:57:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09845 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:57:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA75401; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:05:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812162105.NAA75401@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812162006.NAA24553@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Dec 16, 1998 1: 6:51 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:05:11 -0800 (PST) Cc: bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Nate Williams: > > A Fortran compiler has been part of the base system since FreeBSD 1.1.5. > > Because there was no easy way of breaking it out in the old days. > > > > I'm not sure if you don't understand the distinction between the base > > > system and the ports collection or don't want to accept the fact that > > > fortran isn't considered "basic" functionality these days anymore. > > > > I fully understand the difference. I'm suggesting the replacement > > of current inferior functionality with a superior solution. > > I think we should rip out the inferior solution and leave it out. > However, taking functionality out of FreeBSD is harder than adding new > functionality in. > > The existing code doesn't work well at all, and rather than bloat the > tree with something that is rarely used, we should just live with the > ability that it's easy to add Fortran to the base system as a package. > > > > All claimed advantages have absolutely nothing to do with the question > > > of placing your fortran compiler in the base system instead of a port. > > > > There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. > > I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. > Surprisingly, I would actually support this. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:05:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11324 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:05:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11316 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:05:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA06886; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:09:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:09:27 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Steve Kargl cc: Nate Williams , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812162105.NAA75401@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > > All claimed advantages have absolutely nothing to do with the question > > > > of placing your fortran compiler in the base system instead of a port. > > > > > > There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. > > > > I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. > > > > Surprisingly, I would actually support this. > You realize that doing so makes FreeBSD look bad to new compsci students who all have to take that dreaded FORTRAN class sometime during their education? Just one vote for keeping f2c and friends, or perhaps getting g77. Yes a lot of people have different expectations of FreeBSD, one of mine and many compsci students is a useable FORTRAN enviornment. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:10:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12121 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:10:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beowulf.utmb.edu (beowulf.utmb.edu [129.109.59.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12065 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:10:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu) Received: (from bdodson@localhost) by beowulf.utmb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA02519; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:07:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:07:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199812162107.PAA02519@beowulf.utmb.edu> From: "M. L. Dodson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Steve Kargl Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812162105.NAA75401@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <199812162006.NAA24553@mt.sri.com> <199812162105.NAA75401@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15p7 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Kargl writes: > According to Nate Williams: [deleted] > > I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. > > > > Surprisingly, I would actually support this. > Me too. It takes away a lot of the potential for confusion for the casual user, thereby alerting them that they need to do something extra (like install a port or package or ask someone with experience with FBSD how to proceed). And we don't get the rap of poor performance in this problem domain. Bud Dodson -- M. L. Dodson bdodson@scms.utmb.edu 409-772-2178 FAX: 409-772-1790 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:11:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12456 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:11:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12451 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:11:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA08143; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:09:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA24884; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:09:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:09:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199812162109.OAA24884@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Steve Kargl , Nate Williams , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: References: <199812162105.NAA75401@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > > All claimed advantages have absolutely nothing to do with the question > > > > > of placing your fortran compiler in the base system instead of a port. > > > > > > > > There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. > > > > > > I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. > > > > > > > Surprisingly, I would actually support this. > > > > You realize that doing so makes FreeBSD look bad to new compsci students > who all have to take that dreaded FORTRAN class sometime during their > education? I don't know of *ANY* University that teaches Fortran to Comp. Sci students. Fortran is a dead language, and is only used by engineers that have already existing Fortran code. And, even if many universities still commonly taught Fortran, we don't support Pascal, Java, Ada, or many other 'common' teaching languages out of the box, so this is a poor excuse to keep Fortran. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:14:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12852 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:14:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12845 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:14:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA08196; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:13:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA24973; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:13:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:13:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199812162113.OAA24973@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "M. L. Dodson" Cc: Steve Kargl , nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812162107.PAA02519@beowulf.utmb.edu> References: <199812162006.NAA24553@mt.sri.com> <199812162105.NAA75401@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <199812162107.PAA02519@beowulf.utmb.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ Removing f77 from the release ] > > > I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. > > > > Surprisingly, I would actually support this. > > > > Me too. It takes away a lot of the potential for confusion for > the casual user, thereby alerting them that they need to do > something extra (like install a port or package or ask someone > with experience with FBSD how to proceed). And we don't get the > rap of poor performance in this problem domain. We're getting alot of positive response from people who want it removed. Aside from Alfred, are they any other dissenters? Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:15:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12952 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:15:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA12942 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:15:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 11037 invoked by uid 1001); 16 Dec 1998 21:14:58 +0000 (GMT) To: bright@hotjobs.com Cc: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, nate@mt.sri.com, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:09:27 -0500 (EST)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:14:58 +0100 Message-ID: <11035.913842898@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You realize that doing so makes FreeBSD look bad to new compsci students > who all have to take that dreaded FORTRAN class sometime during their > education? Yes, removing functionality is always difficult. > Just one vote for keeping f2c and friends, or perhaps getting g77. > > Yes a lot of people have different expectations of FreeBSD, one of mine > and many compsci students is a useable FORTRAN enviornment. It has been claimed that the difference in disk space between f77 and g77 is not much. Could we have some numbers, please? - How much disk space would be saved by removing the current f77? - How much extra disk space would be needed if we were to replace f77 in the base distribution with g77? To me, one of the clear attractions of FreeBSD over for instance Red Hat Linux is that the bases system is reasonably small - enough that it's feasible to download it even if you don't have a high speed link. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:16:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13153 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:16:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA13147 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:16:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 11085 invoked by uid 1001); 16 Dec 1998 21:16:35 +0000 (GMT) To: nate@mt.sri.com Cc: bright@hotjobs.com, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:09:00 -0700" References: <199812162109.OAA24884@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:16:35 +0100 Message-ID: <11083.913842995@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't know of *ANY* University that teaches Fortran to Comp. Sci > students. Fortran is a dead language, and is only used by engineers > that have already existing Fortran code. As far as I know, new code is definitely being written in Fortran 90. I hardly think it qualifies as a dead language yet. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:20:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13498 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:20:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles128.castles.com [208.214.165.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13489 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:20:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00347; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:08:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812161708.JAA00347@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "M. L. Dodson" cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysinstall In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:07:18 CST." <199812151507.JAA27744@beowulf.utmb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:08:51 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith writes: > > Can you clarify for us why having g77 in the base system, rather than > > an easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port would be worthwhile? > > > > Our current drive is to increase, not decrease, the modularity of the > > system where possible; an addition like this would have to have a > > compelling justification that was key to the system's functionality to > > be considered. > > I'm absolutely sympathetic with a desire for modularity. The > problem is specific to g77 (and, possibly, to other of the > optional gnu compilers). You can't just install g77; you have to > take, at least, a custom version of gcc along with it. That > means that you have to juggle your path in order to pick up the > correct versions of everything. Let me point out that people > using this compiler are not likely to be as knowledgable as your > ordinary "hackers" subscriber. I have had success getting things > done in spite of this behavior, but it is a royal PITA. Not to > mention the possible differences in code generation between the > system gcc and the g77-specific gcc. I beg to differ; if you look at the current g77 port, it contains two files: bin/g77 and libexec/f771. With the port's bin directory on your path, 'g77' suffices to compile Fortran code as expected, and there are no other changes to the compilation of other code. No path juggling is required, nor anything that is beyond anyone that is already using any other port. > I guess another way of expressing my "problem" is that I would > like g77 available to me in the same high quality way that the > rest of the base FreeBSD is available to me. I don't perceive > that to be the case now. For instance, I have never had any luck > with the g77 ports. For various reasons, perhaps now fixed (I > haven't tried in more than a year), they just never worked > (perhaps I never had the right combinations of versions of > everything needed?). I have always had to get the gcc or egcs > sources and go through the regular gnu installation procedure > (although the egcs port seems to work OK now). That seems to me > an inferior way to go about things. I can't bear witness to this; I've deployed the 'g77' port for a number of customers now with no effort whatsoever, usually just pkg_adding the package and then forgetting about it. The port *is* currently marked BROKEN, which would indicate that it's crying out for a Fortran-using maintainer to step in and fix it, but there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it in its current organisation AFAICT. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:21:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13537 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:21:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13526 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:21:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA75612; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:28:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812162128.NAA75612@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812162109.OAA24884@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Dec 16, 1998 2: 9: 0 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:28:43 -0800 (PST) Cc: bright@hotjobs.com, nate@mt.sri.com, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>> >>>> I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. >>>> >>> >>> Surprisingly, I would actually support this. >>> >> >> You realize that doing so makes FreeBSD look bad to new compsci students >> who all have to take that dreaded FORTRAN class sometime during their >> education? > > I don't know of *ANY* University that teaches Fortran to Comp. Sci > students. Fortran is a dead language, and is only used by engineers > that have already existing Fortran code. Fortran 95 is actually a more modern language than C if you go by the ISO ratification dates. Fortran 77 is a dead standard. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:22:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13648 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:22:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13641 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:22:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA02583; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:19:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:19:52 -0700 (MST) From: Brian Handy To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Steve Kargl , Nate Williams , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-files: The truth is out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> [There's a nod towards pulling f77 out of the src tree and maybe >> making a push to get the ports up to date] > >You realize that doing so makes FreeBSD look bad to new compsci students >who all have to take that dreaded FORTRAN class sometime during their >education? Does not follow. The discussion up to here has already illustrated we have a lousy f77 compiler, so what's so wrong with just adding a better package (of your choice!) from the ports tree? For years people have had to do this to get a useable perl and that seemed OK. >Yes a lot of people have different expectations of FreeBSD, one of mine >and many compsci students is a useable FORTRAN enviornment. But you'd still get this with the port. (Granted, my whole argument is based on updating the ports, and the g77 port in particular, maybe with an eye towards using the egcs port.) It's much easier politically to keep ports up to date than stuff in the source tree as well, which I think would be a big win. (I'd kinda like to play with some f90 stuff, which I didn't realize was starting to come with this.) Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:23:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13783 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:23:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13772 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:23:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA08278; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:20:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA25067; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:20:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:20:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199812162120.OAA25067@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, bright@hotjobs.com, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <11083.913842995@verdi.nethelp.no> References: <199812162109.OAA24884@mt.sri.com> <11083.913842995@verdi.nethelp.no> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I don't know of *ANY* University that teaches Fortran to Comp. Sci > > students. Fortran is a dead language, and is only used by engineers > > that have already existing Fortran code. > > As far as I know, new code is definitely being written in Fortran 90. > I hardly think it qualifies as a dead language yet. Read what I said. It is only used by engineers that have already existing Fortran code. It doesn't mean new code isn't written, but the new code that is written tends to be written by folks who already have written lots of Fortran code. Very few students know Fortran, unless they are required to learn it to help our their teachers maintain existing code. :( Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:35:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15515 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:35:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15502 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:34:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA03878; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:34:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19981216133437.B2782@wopr.caltech.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:34:37 -0800 From: Matthew Hunt To: Nate Williams , sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) References: <199812162109.OAA24884@mt.sri.com> <11083.913842995@verdi.nethelp.no> <199812162120.OAA25067@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812162120.OAA25067@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 02:20:34PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 02:20:34PM -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > Very few students know Fortran, unless they are required to learn it to > help our their teachers maintain existing code. :( There are lots of new astronomers who learn (or at least absorb) Fortran as undergraduates, not because they need to maintain old code, but because that's what everyone around them uses. There's Fortran books lying about, there's decades of Fortran experience to ask questions of, etc. In my experience, astronomers who write C code still look like they're writing Fortran. :-) -- Matthew Hunt * Science rules. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:38:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16102 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:38:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16097 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:38:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA75754; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:46:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812162146.NAA75754@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: sysinstall In-Reply-To: <199812161708.JAA00347@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Dec 16, 1998 9: 8:51 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:46:44 -0800 (PST) Cc: bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Mike Smith: > > Mike Smith writes: > > > Can you clarify for us why having g77 in the base system, rather than > > > an easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port would be worthwhile? > > > > > > Our current drive is to increase, not decrease, the modularity of the > > > system where possible; an addition like this would have to have a > > > compelling justification that was key to the system's functionality to > > > be considered. > > > > I'm absolutely sympathetic with a desire for modularity. The > > problem is specific to g77 (and, possibly, to other of the > > optional gnu compilers). You can't just install g77; you have to > > take, at least, a custom version of gcc along with it. That > > means that you have to juggle your path in order to pick up the > > correct versions of everything. Let me point out that people > > using this compiler are not likely to be as knowledgable as your > > ordinary "hackers" subscriber. I have had success getting things > > done in spite of this behavior, but it is a royal PITA. Not to > > mention the possible differences in code generation between the > > system gcc and the g77-specific gcc. > > I beg to differ; if you look at the current g77 port, it contains two > files: bin/g77 and libexec/f771. With the port's bin directory on your > path, 'g77' suffices to compile Fortran code as expected, and there are > no other changes to the compilation of other code. No path juggling is > required, nor anything that is beyond anyone that is already using any > other port. lang/g77 is version 0.5.19.1 The current version is 0.5.23 with 0.5.24 in the pipeline. Unfortunately, g77 as a frontend to th FSF backend has some knowledge of the backend, and g77+0.5.23 may only work with gcc+2.8.x. g77 no longer uses libf2c as its runtime library. You need to include the new libg77 in your path. [snippage] > I can't bear witness to this; I've deployed the 'g77' port for a number > of customers now with no effort whatsoever, usually just pkg_adding the > package and then forgetting about it. Tell your customers to run "finger -l fortran@gnu.org | more" > The port *is* currently marked > BROKEN, which would indicate that it's crying out for a Fortran-using > maintainer to step in and fix it, but there's nothing fundamentally > wrong with it in its current organisation AFAICT. > finger -l fortran@gnu.org | more Seek to BETA. - Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:40:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16366 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:40:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16342 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:40:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA06957; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:44:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:44:48 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Nate Williams cc: Steve Kargl , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812162109.OAA24884@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > > > All claimed advantages have absolutely nothing to do with the question > > > > > > of placing your fortran compiler in the base system instead of a port. > > > > > > > > > > There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. > > > > > > > > I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. > > > > > > > > > > Surprisingly, I would actually support this. > > > > > > > You realize that doing so makes FreeBSD look bad to new compsci students > > who all have to take that dreaded FORTRAN class sometime during their > > education? > > I don't know of *ANY* University that teaches Fortran to Comp. Sci > students. Fortran is a dead language, and is only used by engineers > that have already existing Fortran code. > > And, even if many universities still commonly taught Fortran, we don't > support Pascal, Java, Ada, or many other 'common' teaching languages out > of the box, so this is a poor excuse to keep Fortran. It was part of those annoying classes where they toss you through about 6-8 different langs in one semester so you supposedly get a better understanding of various languages out there. All i remeber is that the homework consisted mostly of using each lang for exactly what it can't do (ie. a quicksort in f77, ala no recursion) One more plus, for FreeBSD users but not FreeBSD maintainers is that Fortran upkeep will be manditory, ei. marking fortran as 'broken' wouldn't happen. btw, if you're concerned about bloat, you're too late, check the changes from -current as of about 6 months ago vs today. :/ I really think updating to g77 would be a good thing. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current > > > Nate > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:45:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17402 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:45:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17397 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:45:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA08516; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:44:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA25406; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:44:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:44:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199812162144.OAA25406@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Nate Williams , Steve Kargl , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: References: <199812162109.OAA24884@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > One more plus, for FreeBSD users but not FreeBSD maintainers is that > Fortran upkeep will be manditory, ei. marking fortran as 'broken' wouldn't > happen. This isn't a plus. Because f77 is in the core, it's never maintained. If it were outside the core, it would be easier for someone to maintain it. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:48:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17813 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:48:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17774 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:48:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) id OAA69898; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:48:00 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199812162148.OAA69898@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Exabyte EXB-8200 In-Reply-To: <199812161409.AAA00737@atdot.dotat.org> from Mark Newton at "Dec 17, 98 00:39:21 am" To: newton@atdot.dotat.org (Mark Newton) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:48:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Newton wrote... > > I have an Exabyte EXB-8200 on one of my boxes which has been giving > me faithful service under FreeBSD for ages. > > I upgraded that machine to 3.0-RELEASE last night, though, which > included a switch to the CAM SCSI drivers. Since then, my Exabyte > hasn't been working. > > ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 11 on pci0.9.0 > ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs > [ ... ] > sa1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 6 lun 0 > sa1: Removable Sequential Access SCSI1 device > sa1: 3.300MB/s transfers > > No matter what I try to write to it, it reports that it has reached > the end of its media -- dd says: > > atdot# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/nrsa1 bs=1024 > dd: /dev/nrsa1: end of device > > dump gives me a change volume request before writing its first block, > tar reports that it has written 0 of 10240 bytes and errors out. > > Are there any known problems with EXB-8200's? Do I need to change > any jumper settings to make my drive work? Do I need a particular > PROM revision? Doctor, will I ever play the piano again? The Exabyte 8200 is known not to work with the 3.0-RELEASE version of the CAM tape driver. In fact, it's specifically mentioned in the release notes as an example of a tape drive that doesn't work: ====================================================================== SCSI TAPE SUPPORT: The CAM SCSI tape driver doesn't yet handle older (and many times broken) tape drives very well. If you've got an older SCSI-1 tape drive, like an Exabyte 8200 or older QIC-type tape drive, it may not work properly with the CAM tape driver. This is obviously a known problem, and we're working on it. Newer tape drives that are mostly SCSI-2 compliant should work fine. e.g., DAT (DDS-1, 2 and 3), DLT, and newer Exabyte 8mm drives should work fine. If you want to find out if your particular tape drive is supported, the best way to find out is to try it! ====================================================================== The tape driver in -current will most likely work fine with your drive. Matt Jacob is maintaining the tape driver now, you might want to contact him if you've got specific questions. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:49:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17929 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:49:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17919 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:49:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA75838; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:56:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812162156.NAA75838@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: from Brian Handy at "Dec 16, 1998 2:19:52 pm" To: handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu (Brian Handy) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:56:54 -0800 (PST) Cc: bright@hotjobs.com, nate@mt.sri.com, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Brian Handy: > > But you'd still get this with the port. (Granted, my whole argument is > based on updating the ports, and the g77 port in particular, maybe with an > eye towards using the egcs port.) It's much easier politically to keep > ports up to date than stuff in the source tree as well, which I think > would be a big win. (I'd kinda like to play with some f90 stuff, which I > didn't realize was starting to come with this.) > g77 only a few F90 features. Install egcs in look in the g77.info file for the language dialects. If you need F90, I use Portland Groups Inc. product for linux. It appears to work fine undel linux emulation. http://www.pgroup.com -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:50:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18074 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:50:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18056 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA40838; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:47:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:47:27 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Nate Williams cc: sthaug@nethelp.no, bright@hotjobs.com, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812162120.OAA25067@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > > I don't know of *ANY* University that teaches Fortran to Comp. Sci > > > students. Fortran is a dead language, and is only used by engineers > > > that have already existing Fortran code. > > > > As far as I know, new code is definitely being written in Fortran 90. > > I hardly think it qualifies as a dead language yet. > > Read what I said. It is only used by engineers that have already > existing Fortran code. It doesn't mean new code isn't written, but the > new code that is written tends to be written by folks who already have > written lots of Fortran code. Actually, besides the mountain of legacy code, it vectorizes (where ANSI C doesn't) onto supercomputers, so academics are often into Fortran. These guys (from my own experience) want big workstations, and aren't really terribly interested in PC-based OSs. A smallish program to them is 200 megs in size. > Very few students know Fortran, unless they are required to learn it to > help our their teachers maintain existing code. :( Yeah. All the old fortran courses have been moved out. CS did it first, and the holdouts (the EE curriculums) have mostly been embarrassed into it. I don't know any user-class that is interested in PCs as a platform, and really bangs Fortran. That might change as the Alpha port gets going. As you go up in class, you pick up the costly apps. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 13:56:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18515 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:56:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18510 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:56:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA75899; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:03:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812162203.OAA75899@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: from Chuck Robey at "Dec 16, 1998 4:47:27 pm" To: chuckr@mat.net (Chuck Robey) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:03:11 -0800 (PST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, sthaug@nethelp.no, bright@hotjobs.com, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Attributes might be screwed here] According to Chuck Robey: > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > Read what I said. It is only used by engineers that have already > > existing Fortran code. It doesn't mean new code isn't written, but the > > new code that is written tends to be written by folks who already have > > written lots of Fortran code. > > Actually, besides the mountain of legacy code, it vectorizes (where ANSI > C doesn't) onto supercomputers, so academics are often into Fortran. > These guys (from my own experience) want big workstations, and aren't > really terribly interested in PC-based OSs. A smallish program to them > is 200 megs in size. Dual PII 450 MHz with 1 GB memory. You're hits some serious computing power. The Portland Group sells HPF (high performance Fortran) for SMP systems and clusters for linux. I haven't tried HPF yet, but PGI's F90 compiler works under our linux emulation. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 14:04:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19190 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:04:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles128.castles.com [208.214.165.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19185 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:04:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01101; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:01:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812162201.OAA01101@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Steve Kargl cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:45:02 PST." <199812160645.WAA72686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:01:36 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > According to Mike Smith: > > > According to M. L. Dodson: > > > > Mike Smith writes: > > > >>> If I might, I would like to suggest that any project along this > > > >>> line look to include g77 as well as C++ as part of the base > > > >>> system. This would help those of us interested in using FBSD for > > > >>> number crunching. I can generate some testing time, including > > > >>> compiling and testing some pretty hefty computational chemistry > > > >> > > > >> Can you clarify for us why having g77 in the base system, rather than > > > >> an easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port would be worthwhile? > > > > > > f77 = stock f2c+gcc > > > g77 = from egcs-1.1.1 port > > > pgf77 = Portland Group Fortran compilers for linux > > > > > > The compiled program computes the acoustical scattering from > > > an elastic spherical shell using standard partial wave analysis. > > > > This doesn't sound to me like any sort of justification. In fact, it > > looks like a specific application, and more to the point, a strong > > argument for having it a port. > > > > A 33% increase in execution time doesn't seem like a good justification? No, your case isn't a good justification for having Fortran in the base system *at*all*. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 14:05:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19514 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:05:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA19506 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:05:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id RAA26196; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:04:50 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:04:50 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Nate Williams cc: Alfred Perlstein , Steve Kargl , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812162109.OAA24884@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > I don't know of *ANY* University that teaches Fortran to Comp. Sci > students. Fortran is a dead language, and is only used by engineers > that have already existing Fortran code. ForTran is still a required class for engineering students. With good reason. It's not dead, it's just not widely used outside of engineering. Jamie Bowden -- Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 14:08:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19909 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:08:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19888 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA08725; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:08:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA25613; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:08:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:08:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199812162208.PAA25613@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Jamie Bowden Cc: Nate Williams , Alfred Perlstein , Steve Kargl , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: References: <199812162109.OAA24884@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I don't know of *ANY* University that teaches Fortran to Comp. Sci > > students. Fortran is a dead language, and is only used by engineers > > that have already existing Fortran code. > > ForTran is still a required class for engineering students. With good > reason. It's not dead, it's just not widely used outside of engineering. Not in any engineering school I've looked at recently. None of those where I interviewed students this year had Fortran as a required course. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 14:19:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20927 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:19:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20922 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:19:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA76029; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:27:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812162227.OAA76029@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812162201.OAA01101@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Dec 16, 1998 2: 1:36 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:27:06 -0800 (PST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Mike Smith: > > According to Mike Smith: > > > > According to M. L. Dodson: > > > > > Mike Smith writes: > > > > >>> If I might, I would like to suggest that any project along this > > > > >>> line look to include g77 as well as C++ as part of the base > > > > >>> system. This would help those of us interested in using FBSD for > > > > >>> number crunching. I can generate some testing time, including > > > > >>> compiling and testing some pretty hefty computational chemistry > > > > >> > > > > >> Can you clarify for us why having g77 in the base system, rather than > > > > >> an easily-installable and easily-upgradeable port would be worthwhile? > > > > > > > > f77 = stock f2c+gcc > > > > g77 = from egcs-1.1.1 port > > > > pgf77 = Portland Group Fortran compilers for linux > > > > > > > > The compiled program computes the acoustical scattering from > > > > an elastic spherical shell using standard partial wave analysis. > > > > > > This doesn't sound to me like any sort of justification. In fact, it > > > looks like a specific application, and more to the point, a strong > > > argument for having it a port. > > > > > > > A 33% increase in execution time doesn't seem like a good justification? > > No, your case isn't a good justification for having Fortran in the base > system *at*all*. > Ah, but you didn't state it that way. I interpreted your post to mean that "f2c+gcc is good enough; why upgrade it to g77?" I actually agree that Fortran could be completely removed from the base system (provide a port in available). I'm arguing that if FreeBSD continues to ship a Fortran compiler in the base distribution, then we should consider upgrading to g77. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 14:28:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22143 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:28:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com ([207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22133 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:28:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (tao.tera.com [207.108.223.55]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27634; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:28:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id OAA08758; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:27:55 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199812162227.OAA08758@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system In-Reply-To: <199812162113.OAA24973@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Dec 16, 98 02:13:54 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:27:54 -0800 (PST) Cc: bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Nate Williams: > [ Removing f77 from the release ] > > > > I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. > > > > > > Surprisingly, I would actually support this. > > > > > > > Me too. It takes away a lot of the potential for confusion for > > the casual user, thereby alerting them that they need to do > > something extra (like install a port or package or ask someone > > with experience with FBSD how to proceed). And we don't get the > > rap of poor performance in this problem domain. > > We're getting alot of positive response from people who want it > removed. Aside from Alfred, are they any other dissenters? > > I've always thought of a computer system _without_ FORTRAN as serious lacking. Not because my first course was in F77; after all, this was a few (um, 20) summers ago. But because FORTRAN is still fairly widely used in the non-hacker disciplines. If we do yank it--with or without extreme prejudice--then when some non-geek user does an % appropos fortran, he should see something like fortran: you gotta port it if you wanna use it. Nutshell: I'm almost neutral, but not entirely. gary > -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 14:35:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22778 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:35:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22770 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:35:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA08950; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:35:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA25845; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:35:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:35:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199812162235.PAA25845@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Gary Kline Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system In-Reply-To: <199812162227.OAA08758@tao.thought.org> References: <199812162113.OAA24973@mt.sri.com> <199812162227.OAA08758@tao.thought.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > [ Removing f77 from the release ] > > We're getting alot of positive response from people who want it > > removed. Aside from Alfred, are they any other dissenters? > > If we do yank it--with or without extreme prejudice--then > when some non-geek user does an % appropos fortran, he should > see something like > > fortran: you gotta port it if you wanna use it. ??? The existing ports of Fortran will still exist, and *IF* this happens someone (ie; not me) will have to build an f77 port. I'll be glad to do the 'commit' bits, but I need someone to help me with the grunt work. That way the equivalent functionality will exist in the ports directory. It'll just mean adding 'yet another' port to the system, which now is pretty common for almost every installation. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 14:42:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23910 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:42:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles128.castles.com [208.214.165.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23868 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:42:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01290; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:39:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812162239.OAA01290@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Steve Kargl cc: bs_13943_34262@adimus.de (Benedikt Stockebrand), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:52:21 PST." <199812161952.LAA75064@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:39:50 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > According to Mike Smith: > > > > > > > This doesn't sound to me like any sort of justification. In fact, it > > > > looks like a specific application, and more to the point, a strong > > > > argument for having it a port. > > > > > > > > > > A 33% increase in execution time doesn't seem like a good justification? > > > > It doesn't justify it being part of the base installation. It'll slow > > down turnaround times for ``make world'' with only an almost > > negligible fraction of users actually using fortran. > > A Fortran compiler has been part of the base system since FreeBSD 1.1.5. This is not a justification. > > I'm not sure if you don't understand the distinction between the base > > system and the ports collection or don't want to accept the fact that > > fortran isn't considered "basic" functionality these days anymore. > > I fully understand the difference. I'm suggesting the replacement > of current inferior functionality with a superior solution. The superior solution would be to remove f77 and make it a port. Nothing has happened on this front because nobody that cares enough about Fortran has done anything about it. If you care, and it sounds like you do, would you be willing to help us improve the situation? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 14:49:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24707 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:49:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com ([206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24281 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:47:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA121835511; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:25:11 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:25:11 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Jamie Bowden Cc: Nate Williams , Alfred Perlstein , Steve Kargl , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Jamie Bowden wrote: > ForTran is still a required class for engineering students. With good > reason. It's not dead, it's just not widely used outside of engineering. Composition classes are required as well, but I don't see anything other then vi and ee getting installed in the base system. As long as we're talking about bloated software, let's install emacs, because college students have these required classes. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 14:55:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25540 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:55:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25531 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:55:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA26907; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:50:16 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma026905; Wed, 16 Dec 98 16:50:08 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12473; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:50:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199812162250.QAA12473@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: References: Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Steve Kargl , Nate Williams , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:50:08 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 16 December 1998 at 16:09, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > You realize that doing so makes FreeBSD look bad to new compsci students > who all have to take that dreaded FORTRAN class sometime during their > education? I thought you were being sarcastic here when I first read this paragraph. I didn't think any schools still taught FORTRAN as part of a computer science curriculum. Mathematics or engineering curriculums, maybe, but not computer science. > Just one vote for keeping f2c and friends, or perhaps getting g77. I vote that FORTRAN is a waste of bits. :-) > Yes a lot of people have different expectations of FreeBSD, one of mine > and many compsci students is a useable FORTRAN enviornment. s/compsci/engineering/ and I could agree. Keeping FORTRAN as part of the FreeBSD base system is not the way to achieve this goal. I'd say it is a good way to guarantee a sub-standard FORTRAN environment. Thus this whole discussion, I guess. And many of my comments go for Perl/Tcl/sh/csh/C et. al. also, so there. :-) -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 15:04:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26819 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:04:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26812 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:04:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA26944; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:03:17 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma026942; Wed, 16 Dec 98 17:03:09 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA12584; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:03:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199812162303.RAA12584@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <199812162227.OAA08758@tao.thought.org> References: <199812162227.OAA08758@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: Gary Kline cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:03:08 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 16 December 1998 at 14:27, Gary Kline wrote: > I've always thought of a computer system _without_ FORTRAN > as serious lacking. Not because my first course was in F77; > after all, this was a few (um, 20) summers ago. But because > FORTRAN is still fairly widely used in the non-hacker > disciplines. > > If we do yank it--with or without extreme prejudice--then > when some non-geek user does an % appropos fortran, he should > see something like > > fortran: you gotta port it if you wanna use it. > > Nutshell: I'm almost neutral, but not entirely. The following patch is needed? :-) --- apropos.sh.orig Wed Dec 16 17:01:11 1998 +++ apropos.sh Wed Dec 16 17:02:00 1998 @@ -73,7 +73,7 @@ do if grep -hi $grepopt -- "$manpage" $mandir; then : else - echo "$manpage: nothing appropriate" + echo "$manpage: port not installed -- go to /usr/ports" fi done | Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 15:04:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26834 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:04:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com ([206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26438 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA129597060; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:51:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:51:00 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Nate Williams Cc: Gary Kline , bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system In-Reply-To: <199812162235.PAA25845@mt.sri.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > That way the equivalent functionality will exist in the ports directory. > It'll just mean adding 'yet another' port to the system, which now is > pretty common for almost every installation. That would be true if /usr/ports/lang/g77 didn't already exist. It's BROKEN, but I'm sure someone with experience in the matter could get it working. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 15:07:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27032 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:07:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27022 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:07:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA82429; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:14:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812162314.PAA82429@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812162239.OAA01290@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Dec 16, 1998 2:39:50 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:14:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Mike Smith: me: >> I fully understand the difference. I'm suggesting the replacement >> of current inferior functionality with a superior solution. M. Smith: > The superior solution would be to remove f77 and make it a port. > Nothing has happened on this front because nobody that cares enough > about Fortran has done anything about it. Actually, I have submitted minor changes to our Fortran over the years. > > If you care, and it sounds like you do, would you be willing to help us > improve the situation? Yes. I'm looking at building a f77 port, now. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 15:12:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27976 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:12:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles128.castles.com [208.214.165.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27971 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:12:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01494; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:10:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812162310.PAA01494@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Steve Kargl cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysinstall In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:46:44 PST." <199812162146.NAA75754@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:10:25 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > lang/g77 is version 0.5.19.1 > > The current version is 0.5.23 with 0.5.24 in the pipeline. Unfortunately, > g77 as a frontend to th FSF backend has some knowledge of the backend, > and g77+0.5.23 may only work with gcc+2.8.x. > > g77 no longer uses libf2c as its runtime library. You need to > include the new libg77 in your path. > > [snippage] > > > I can't bear witness to this; I've deployed the 'g77' port for a number > > of customers now with no effort whatsoever, usually just pkg_adding the > > package and then forgetting about it. > > Tell your customers to run "finger -l fortran@gnu.org | more" > > > The port *is* currently marked > > BROKEN, which would indicate that it's crying out for a Fortran-using > > maintainer to step in and fix it, but there's nothing fundamentally > > wrong with it in its current organisation AFAICT. > > > > finger -l fortran@gnu.org | more > > Seek to BETA. It would appear that you're very familiar with the current state of play with Fortran compilers then. Would you care to perhaps update our existing port, as well as maintain the port of libg77? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 15:15:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28192 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:15:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28187 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:15:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (tao.tera.com [207.108.223.55]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29632; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:15:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id PAA09125; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:14:49 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199812162314.PAA09125@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system In-Reply-To: <199812162303.RAA12584@spawn.nectar.com> from Jacques Vidrine at "Dec 16, 98 05:03:08 pm" To: n@nectar.com (Jacques Vidrine) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:14:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Jacques Vidrine: > On 16 December 1998 at 14:27, Gary Kline wrote: > > I've always thought of a computer system _without_ FORTRAN > > as serious lacking. Not because my first course was in F77; > > after all, this was a few (um, 20) summers ago. But because > > FORTRAN is still fairly widely used in the non-hacker > > disciplines. > > > > If we do yank it--with or without extreme prejudice--then > > when some non-geek user does an % appropos fortran, he should > > see something like > > > > fortran: you gotta port it if you wanna use it. > > > > Nutshell: I'm almost neutral, but not entirely. > > > The following patch is needed? :-) > > --- apropos.sh.orig Wed Dec 16 17:01:11 1998 > +++ apropos.sh Wed Dec 16 17:02:00 1998 > @@ -73,7 +73,7 @@ > do > if grep -hi $grepopt -- "$manpage" $mandir; then : > else > - echo "$manpage: nothing appropriate" > + echo "$manpage: port not installed -- go to /usr/ports" > fi > done | > > Yup. Or touché! merci et bonne journée, gary > > > -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 15:16:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28301 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:16:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28291 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:16:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA82453; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:18:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812162318.PAA82453@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system In-Reply-To: from Bill Fumerola at "Dec 16, 1998 11:51: 0 am" To: billf@chc-chimes.com (Bill Fumerola) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:18:27 -0800 (PST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, kline@tao.thought.org, bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Bill Fumerola: > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > > That way the equivalent functionality will exist in the ports directory. > > It'll just mean adding 'yet another' port to the system, which now is > > pretty common for almost every installation. > > That would be true if /usr/ports/lang/g77 didn't already exist. It's > BROKEN, but I'm sure someone with experience in the matter could get it > working. > I would recommend removing lang/g77 completely. The newest version of g77 is at 0.5.23 with 0.5.24 in the pipeline. g77-0.5.23 works with gcc-2.8.1. Our port is based on g77-0.5.19.1 which is the last version to work with gcc-2.7.2.1. If it is not politically correct to remove lang/g77, then change the Makefile to point to egcs. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 15:20:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28788 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:20:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28783 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA82562; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:28:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812162328.PAA82562@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Fortran continued [Re: sysinstall] In-Reply-To: <199812162310.PAA01494@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Dec 16, 1998 3:10:25 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:28:10 -0800 (PST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Mike Smith: > > > The port *is* currently marked > > > BROKEN, which would indicate that it's crying out for a Fortran-using > > > maintainer to step in and fix it, but there's nothing fundamentally > > > wrong with it in its current organisation AFAICT. > > > > > > > finger -l fortran@gnu.org | more > > > > Seek to BETA. > > It would appear that you're very familiar with the current state of > play with Fortran compilers then. Would you care to perhaps update our > existing port, as well as maintain the port of libg77? ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/g77-0.5.23.tar.gz more README.g77 ... * To build GNU Fortran, you must have a source distribution of gcc version 2.8. Do not attempt to use any other version of gcc, because this version of g77 is designed to work only with gcc version 2.8. ... I think ports/lang/g77 should be removed, or it should point at egcs. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 16:08:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06831 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:08:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from online.dct.com (online.dct.com [204.29.185.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06818 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from markm@online.dct.com) Received: (from markm@localhost) by online.dct.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.8.8) id SAA22273 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:08:05 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Message-Id: <199812170008.SAA22273@online.dct.com> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) (fwd) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:08:04 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL48 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Forwarded message from Nate Williams ----- > > I don't know of *ANY* University that teaches Fortran to Comp. Sci > > students. Fortran is a dead language, and is only used by engineers > > that have already existing Fortran code. > > ForTran is still a required class for engineering students. With good > reason. It's not dead, it's just not widely used outside of engineering. Not in any engineering school I've looked at recently. None of those where I interviewed students this year had Fortran as a required course. ----- End of forwarded message from Nate Williams ----- Didn't look at Michigan Tech, did ya... :) Still required for most engineering, and I took it (required) for CS. and it was a term long class, and we used it for numerical methods. Some of us still have to deal with it... -- Mark Maurer markm@dct.com Programmer: Digital Magic Interactive mwmaurer@mtu.edu Senior, Michigan Tech University "The OOP folk think they are about to inherit the world, while I am becoming increasingly convinced they are becoming obsolete" -- Bob Cringely To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 16:21:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08006 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:21:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beatrice.rutgers.edu (beatrice.rutgers.edu [165.230.209.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07998 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:21:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu) Received: (from easmith@localhost) by beatrice.rutgers.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA06961; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:19:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Allen Smith" Message-Id: <9812161919.ZM6960@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:19:31 -0500 In-Reply-To: Steve Kargl "Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)" (Dec 16, 5:45pm) References: <199812162203.OAA75899@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Steve Kargl , chuckr@mat.net (Chuck Robey) Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, sthaug@nethelp.no, bright@hotjobs.com, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Dec 16, 5:45pm, Steve Kargl (possibly) wrote: > [Attributes might be screwed here] > > According to Chuck Robey: > > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > > > Read what I said. It is only used by engineers that have already > > > existing Fortran code. It doesn't mean new code isn't written, but the > > > new code that is written tends to be written by folks who already have > > > written lots of Fortran code. > > > > Actually, besides the mountain of legacy code, it vectorizes (where ANSI > > C doesn't) onto supercomputers, so academics are often into Fortran. > > These guys (from my own experience) want big workstations, and aren't > > really terribly interested in PC-based OSs. A smallish program to them > > is 200 megs in size. > > Dual PII 450 MHz with 1 GB memory. You're hits some serious computing > power. The Portland Group sells HPF (high performance Fortran) for > SMP systems and clusters for linux. I haven't tried HPF yet, but > PGI's F90 compiler works under our linux emulation. As well as engineering, a lot of biochemistry (molecular modelling, energy minimization, structure prediction, etcetera) code is written in Fortran. Given the cost of swap space and memory on non-PC machines, and that energy minimization takes a _lot_ of swap space (and, preferably, memory) even for small molecules (we've got about a gig of combined memory and swap space on one of our machines that's used a lot for this, and it keeps running out...), we've been looking at the possibility of getting in a FreeBSD-based machine for just this purpose. A good Fortran compiler would be a necessity for this, although it might be worth buying something with automatic parallelization. (With such an automatic parallelizer, an equivalent of Beowulf for FreeBSD would be quite nice also - it would enable using lots of much cheaper non-Intel microprocessors, one per machine.) -Allen -- Allen Smith easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 16:31:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09064 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:31:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from is.lamefree.com (is.lamefree.com [209.84.188.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09059 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:31:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dthunder@is.lamefree.com) Received: from localhost (dthunder@localhost) by is.lamefree.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA22149 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:31:17 GMT Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:31:17 +0000 (GMT) From: dthunder To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Firewall (IPFW) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I tried to enable Firewall and set rules with IPFW many times, but I never get it to work. Can some1 post me your working rc.firewall? Thank you. Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 16:40:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10317 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:40:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10307 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:40:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA00393 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:43:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:43:17 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NFS hangs, old problem revisited. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone want to take a look at this? I kinda think i just got bitten by it, but i have no idea. It's my old "deleting mail in pine over NFS killed my box bug" You can still ping the box after the hang i just got, and you can telnet to open ports, however all that happens is that the connection is opened, but nothing ever gets sent across. ie: % telnet box Trying x.x.x.x... Connected to x.x.x. Escape character is '^]'. then nothing. I'd submit a PR, however i've already done so, i tried enabling crashdumps after being told it was 'ok' and i lost my /usr. Can i do anything to give better feedback? i have intr mounts, which is why i thought of this, there really is no PR with this dialog and i didn't see any followups about it. 3.0 box as of Nov 30th. I think i will cvsup, perhaps something somewhere else has been done to fix this, but the code looks the same as in this mail. thanks, -Alfred ----- begin conversation with people that understand vfs ------ NFS/FS people care to comment? (Regarding the looping 'tsleep' in vfs_subr.c: vinvalbuf() which causes a system hang). To reiterate a bit, the code in question is: while (vp->v_numoutput) { vp->v_flag |= VBWAIT; tsleep((caddr_t)&vp->v_numoutput, slpflag | (PRIBIO + 1), "vinvlbuf", slptimeo); } When the filesystem is NFS mounted with the 'intr' flag, this tsleep gets interrupted occasionally, and the system begins infinitely looping here. The discussion about which we need comments: Lo and Behold, Mike Hibler said: > > From: David G Andersen > > > I can see a few options for the way to go, but I'm not sure which is > > right. > > > > 1 - return EINTR on the close ('man close' says that's a possible error > > code) > > > > 2 - retry the flush a few times, then return EINTR. > > (more likely to make clients happy) > > > > 3 - For those of us who are lazy bastards, ignore SIGINTR during > > NFS flushes. This seems like a bad idea. > > > > 4 - Something else? > > > > There are really two issues involved. One is whether the FreeBSD change > to vinvalbuf is even necessary/correct... Ok, I just did a cvs annotate > and found what the change was: > ================== > > revision 1.156 > date: 1998/06/10 22:02:14; author: julian; state: Exp; lines: +4 -2 > Replace 'sleep()' with 'tsleep()' > Accidentally imported from Kirk's codebase. > > Pointed out by: various. > ---------------------------- > revision 1.155 > date: 1998/06/10 18:13:19; author: julian; state: Exp; lines: +18 -8 > Submitted by: Kirk McKusick > > Fix for potential hang when trying to reboot the system or > to forcibly unmount a soft update enabled filesystem. > FreeBSD already handled the reboot case differently, this is however a better > fix. > > ================== > So as 1.155 indicates, this change came directly from The Source so I believe > it is necessary. The change in 1.156 is the key: by changing from the 4.4bsd > non-interruptible "sleep" to the possibly interruptible "tsleep" and OR'ing > in the "slpflag" the problem was introduced--now the sleep became > interruptible when called on an interruptible NFS mount. > > That brings us to issue #2 which is what is the correct behavior in this case? > The easy way out is to just not OR in slpflag and go back to full-time non- > interruptibility (your #3). However, that probably isn't necessary. I'm a > bettin' that you could just slpx() and return the tsleep value (your #1) > and all will be fine. (well, as fine as it ever is in the NFS world...) Thanks in advance. -Dave -- work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ Department of Computer Science To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 16:52:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11445 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:52:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11440 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:52:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA00347 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:55:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:55:58 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: more NFS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG right after i drafted that email it locked up again on deleting mail. -a4,rw,tcp,bg,nfsv3,-r32768,-w32768,intr the machine had a happy uptime of 16days, and i haven't seen the problem since my last flurry of posts about it. I'm going to get a null modem cable and hook it to a co-worker's box, besides a ps listing in the kernel debugger (if i can get it to come up) what else might be of use to anyone interested? thanks, Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 17:21:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14069 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:21:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14061 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:21:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA50338; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:21:05 -0800 (PST) To: "M. L. Dodson" cc: Benedikt Stockebrand , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:56:19 CST." <199812161556.JAA01638@beowulf.utmb.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:21:04 -0800 Message-ID: <50335.913857664@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > And I was willing to let the matter drop, but the flame content > of the replies to Steve Kargl's comments seem unwarranted IMO. > So, let me point out to those who seem so unsympathetic (and I am > NOT ANY LONGER SUGGESTING THE ADDITION OF FORTRAN TO THE BASE > SYSTEM -- shouting done on purpose!) the basis of my suggestion FWIW, I would be more than happy to see fortran be a part of the base system. Yes it's big and gnarly, but there's a lot of fortran still out there and most number crunching weenies don't want to take time out to figure out how to install the stupid thing, they just want to get their work done. My only reservation here is that most truly decent fortran compilers are commercial and I have to wonder at the general utility of any of the freebie versions. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 17:25:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14311 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:25:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14291 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:25:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA50372; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:24:40 -0800 (PST) To: Nate Williams cc: Alfred Perlstein , Steve Kargl , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:09:00 MST." <199812162109.OAA24884@mt.sri.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:24:39 -0800 Message-ID: <50369.913857879@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't know of *ANY* University that teaches Fortran to Comp. Sci > students. Fortran is a dead language, and is only used by engineers > that have already existing Fortran code. I can name at least 4, and they're all major universities. The death of fortran has been predicted and, in several cases, announced since 1965. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 17:29:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14622 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:29:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14616 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:29:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13985; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:59:24 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:59:44 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, Nate Williams , Steve Kargl Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 16-Dec-98 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Surprisingly, I would actually support this. > You realize that doing so makes FreeBSD look bad to new compsci students > who all have to take that dreaded FORTRAN class sometime during their > education? Ahaha, wrong! I NEVER did fortran at uni and I've just finished my degree.. The languages I used where C, C++, Perl, csh, sh, Java, prolog and Haskell.. Are you suggesting we add Haskell to the base install? > Yes a lot of people have different expectations of FreeBSD, one of mine > and many compsci students is a useable FORTRAN enviornment. Hmm.. almost an oxymoron, but anyway... --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 17:39:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15472 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:39:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15467 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:39:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA84133; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:47:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812170147.RAA84133@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <50335.913857664@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 16, 1998 5:21: 4 pm" To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:47:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Jordan K. Hubbard: > > And I was willing to let the matter drop, but the flame content > > of the replies to Steve Kargl's comments seem unwarranted IMO. > > So, let me point out to those who seem so unsympathetic (and I am > > NOT ANY LONGER SUGGESTING THE ADDITION OF FORTRAN TO THE BASE > > SYSTEM -- shouting done on purpose!) the basis of my suggestion > > FWIW, I would be more than happy to see fortran be a part of the > base system. Yes it's big and gnarly, but there's a lot of fortran > still out there and most number crunching weenies don't want to take > time out to figure out how to install the stupid thing, they just > want to get their work done. Hey, I resemble that remark ;-) > My only reservation here is that most truly decent fortran compilers > are commercial and I have to wonder at the general utility of any of > the freebie versions. You are correct. Unfortunately, there is only 1 native FreeBSD commerical Fortran compiler from NAG. Portland Group Inc's Fortran compiler for linux works under emulation. These products cost around $400USD to $500USD. g77 is getting better. Anyway, to close this thread, I am looking into the possibility of building a f77 port that provides our current functionality. I've already found that our version of f2c is somewhat out of sync with netlib, and I expect it will take a few days to get things squared away. Finally, has anyone considered the implications of 64-bit processors and how we build f2c (think EQUIVALENCE statements involving integers and real data types). -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 17:40:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15829 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:40:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15821 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:40:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA84152; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:48:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812170148.RAA84152@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: from "Daniel O'Connor" at "Dec 17, 1998 11:59:44 am" To: doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:48:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: bright@hotjobs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, nate@mt.sri.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Daniel O'Connor: > > On 16-Dec-98 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Surprisingly, I would actually support this. > > You realize that doing so makes FreeBSD look bad to new compsci students > > who all have to take that dreaded FORTRAN class sometime during their > > education? > Ahaha, wrong! > I NEVER did fortran at uni and I've just finished my degree.. > > The languages I used where C, C++, Perl, csh, sh, Java, prolog and Haskell.. > Obviously, you've never done any number crunching. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 17:44:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16093 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:44:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16088 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:44:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA50359; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:23:19 -0800 (PST) To: Steve Kargl cc: bs_13943_34262@adimus.de (Benedikt Stockebrand), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:52:21 PST." <199812161952.LAA75064@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:23:18 -0800 Message-ID: <50355.913857798@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I fully understand the difference. I'm suggesting the replacement > of current inferior functionality with a superior solution. Agreed. Send me the diffs and I'll commit them, modulo any gcc upgrading work (which is also planned) which may first be necessary. There. End of argument and everything SETTLED NOW. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 17:46:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16180 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:46:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16175 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:46:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03553; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:45:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:45:43 -0700 (MST) From: Brian Handy To: Steve Kargl cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812170147.RAA84133@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Message-ID: X-files: The truth is out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Somebody said something about the significance of FORTRAN that reminded me of this little snippet I've been saving for years, apparently just for this occasion. :-) The following comes from a posting to comp.lang.fortran dated 13 Jan 1996, by Ralph Frisbie: "I have seen many fancy languages come, flash, and go. Each seems to leave some value, to make some real progress in design or engineering. And then each fades from overwhelming popularity to some lower level of use. So, I have formulated Frisbie's lemma: "The world's last _____(fill in here the name of your favorite post- 1960 language)_____ programmer will be driven to his grave in a hearse designed by Fortran over bridges and freeways designed by Fortran, and his grave diggers will get their checks printed by COBOL....." -- Dr. Brian Handy Mail: handy@physics.montana.edu Department of Physics Phone: (406) 994-6317 Montana State University Fax: (406) 994-4452 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 17:47:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16400 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:47:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16394 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:47:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA84204; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:55:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812170155.RAA84204@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <50355.913857798@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 16, 1998 5:23:18 pm" To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:55:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Jordan K. Hubbard: > > I fully understand the difference. I'm suggesting the replacement > > of current inferior functionality with a superior solution. > > Agreed. Send me the diffs and I'll commit them, modulo any gcc > upgrading work (which is also planned) which may first be necessary. > There. End of argument and everything SETTLED NOW. :-) > g77-0.5.19.1, which works with gcc-2.7.2.1, patches the gcc backend. g77-0.5.23, which is the current version, only works with gcc-2.8.x. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 18:01:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17695 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:01:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17689 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:01:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA50698; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:00:31 -0800 (PST) To: Steve Kargl cc: bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:55:15 PST." <199812170155.RAA84204@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:00:30 -0800 Message-ID: <50694.913860030@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > g77-0.5.23, which is the current version, only works with gcc-2.8.x. Well, someone will hopefully be working on bringing egcs 1.1.1 into the system shortly, so perhaps we should postpone this until that work is completed. Sorry to be so vague, but I don't want to make any promises until he's finished his impact analysis. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 18:03:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18006 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:03:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18001 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:03:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA50717; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:02:54 -0800 (PST) To: "Daniel O'Connor" cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, Nate Williams , Steve Kargl Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:59:44 +1030." Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:02:53 -0800 Message-ID: <50713.913860173@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ahaha, wrong! > I NEVER did fortran at uni and I've just finished my degree.. Fortran is still considered too new by the Australian educational system. I hear they still teach classes in front panel aptitude though, just so students will have some hope of being able to land jobs with the Australian defense industry when they graduate. How's that radar job going? :) > Are you suggesting we add Haskell to the base install? I think that for a language to qualify, it must first be successful to a degree several orders of magnitude greater than that of Haskell. Or any other functional programming language, for that matter. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 18:06:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18408 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:06:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18402 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:06:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA41423; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:00:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:00:14 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Steve Kargl cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812170155.RAA84204@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Steve Kargl wrote: > According to Jordan K. Hubbard: > > > I fully understand the difference. I'm suggesting the replacement > > > of current inferior functionality with a superior solution. > > > > Agreed. Send me the diffs and I'll commit them, modulo any gcc > > upgrading work (which is also planned) which may first be necessary. > > There. End of argument and everything SETTLED NOW. :-) > > > > g77-0.5.19.1, which works with gcc-2.7.2.1, patches the gcc backend. > > g77-0.5.23, which is the current version, only works with gcc-2.8.x. Does it need to patch the backend also? This is *real* bad design (grump). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 18:09:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18539 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:09:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18534 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:09:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14375; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:38:49 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <50713.913860173@zippy.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:39:09 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) Cc: Steve Kargl Cc: Steve Kargl , Nate Williams , bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Alfred Perlstein Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 17-Dec-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Ahaha, wrong! > > I NEVER did fortran at uni and I've just finished my degree.. > Fortran is still considered too new by the Australian educational > system. I hear they still teach classes in front panel aptitude > though, just so students will have some hope of being able to land Hehehe.. That hurts :) > jobs with the Australian defense industry when they graduate. How's > that radar job going? :) Pretty good.. pitty some of it involves Fortran, but nonetheless.. =) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 18:14:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19109 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:14:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19099 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:14:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA00422; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:23:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812170223.SAA00422@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: from Chuck Robey at "Dec 16, 1998 9: 0:14 pm" To: chuckr@mat.net (Chuck Robey) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:23:04 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Chuck Robey: > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > According to Jordan K. Hubbard: > > > > I fully understand the difference. I'm suggesting the replacement > > > > of current inferior functionality with a superior solution. > > > > > > Agreed. Send me the diffs and I'll commit them, modulo any gcc > > > upgrading work (which is also planned) which may first be necessary. > > > There. End of argument and everything SETTLED NOW. :-) > > > > > > > g77-0.5.19.1, which works with gcc-2.7.2.1, patches the gcc backend. > > > > g77-0.5.23, which is the current version, only works with gcc-2.8.x. > > Does it need to patch the backend also? This is *real* bad design > (grump). > No, g77-0.5.23 does not patch the gcc-2.8.x backend. The original design decision was forced on the g77 author because of the gcc maintainer(s) refusal to correct some bad assumptions (bugs) in the backend. finger -l fortran@gnu.org | more -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 18:33:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20918 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:33:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20913 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:33:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA00353 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:37:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:37:00 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: yup, found it (NFS) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG yup, that code I forwarded seems to be where it goes bad: db> ps pid proc addr uid ppid pgrp flag stat wmesg wchan cmd 346 f683a080 f68e8000 1288 339 346 004086 2 vinvlbuf f69727c8 pine 340 f6920600 f6960000 1288 325 340 004086 3 ttyin f02723d4 zsh 339 f6920740 f695d000 1288 327 339 004086 3 pause f695d0f0 zsh 338 f6920880 f6950000 1288 328 338 004086 3 ttyin f02721ec zsh 332 f6920c40 f6928000 1288 1 293 004186 3 nanslp f0272148 kblob.kss 329 f6920d80 f6925000 1288 1 324 004086 3 select f029995c knotes 328 f6839b80 f68f5000 1288 1 322 004086 3 select f029995c kvt 327 f69209c0 f693e000 1288 1 321 004086 3 select f029995c kvt 326 f6839180 f6913000 1288 1 320 004086 3 select f029995c kmix 325 f6838f00 f691a000 1288 1 323 004086 3 select f029995c kvt 317 f6839040 f6917000 1288 303 293 004086 3 nanslp f0272148 maudio ... I don't know why this happens off and on, last time i had these problems was over a month ago. Anyone have any ideas? I can't pretend to know anything about vfs at this point. :/ Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 18:52:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22521 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:52:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22516 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:52:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.1/8.8.2) id UAA27115; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:52:02 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981216205201.A27104@Denninger.Net> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:52:01 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS hangs, old problem revisited. References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 07:43:17PM -0500 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred, If I'm reading the code correctly you can get screwed by this in vm/vm_fault.c as well around line 239. Remove "intr" from all NFS mounts and see if the problem goes away. I've caught this happening for NFS mounted *IMAGES* with a wait channel of "vmpfw", which is a situation where tsleep() is called protected by splvm() (waiting for a page-in to be completed). Thanks for the prodding on this - I've been out of the NFS issues for a while, but this may give me enough to find and squash this one. - -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) http://www.mcs.net/~karl I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 07:43:17PM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Anyone want to take a look at this? > > I kinda think i just got bitten by it, but i have no idea. > > It's my old "deleting mail in pine over NFS killed my box bug" > > You can still ping the box after the hang i just got, and you can telnet > to open ports, however all that happens is that the connection is opened, > but nothing ever gets sent across. > > ie: > % telnet box > Trying x.x.x.x... > Connected to x.x.x. > Escape character is '^]'. > > then nothing. > > I'd submit a PR, however i've already done so, i tried enabling crashdumps > after being told it was 'ok' and i lost my /usr. > > Can i do anything to give better feedback? > > i have intr mounts, which is why i thought of this, there really is no PR > with this dialog and i didn't see any followups about it. > > 3.0 box as of Nov 30th. I think i will cvsup, perhaps something somewhere > else has been done to fix this, but the code looks the same as in this > mail. > > thanks, > -Alfred > > ----- begin conversation with people that understand vfs ------ > > NFS/FS people care to comment? > > (Regarding the looping 'tsleep' in vfs_subr.c: vinvalbuf() which > causes a system hang). > > To reiterate a bit, the code in question is: > while (vp->v_numoutput) { > vp->v_flag |= VBWAIT; > tsleep((caddr_t)&vp->v_numoutput, > slpflag | (PRIBIO + 1), > "vinvlbuf", slptimeo); > } > > When the filesystem is NFS mounted with the 'intr' flag, this tsleep > gets interrupted occasionally, and the system begins infinitely > looping here. > > The discussion about which we need comments: > > Lo and Behold, Mike Hibler said: > > > From: David G Andersen > > > > > I can see a few options for the way to go, but I'm not sure which is > > > right. > > > > > > 1 - return EINTR on the close ('man close' says that's a possible > error > > > code) > > > > > > 2 - retry the flush a few times, then return EINTR. > > > (more likely to make clients happy) > > > > > > 3 - For those of us who are lazy bastards, ignore SIGINTR during > > > NFS flushes. This seems like a bad idea. > > > > > > 4 - Something else? > > > > > > > There are really two issues involved. One is whether the FreeBSD change > > to vinvalbuf is even necessary/correct... Ok, I just did a cvs annotate > > and found what the change was: > > ================== > > > > revision 1.156 > > date: 1998/06/10 22:02:14; author: julian; state: Exp; lines: +4 -2 > > Replace 'sleep()' with 'tsleep()' > > Accidentally imported from Kirk's codebase. > > > > Pointed out by: various. > > ---------------------------- > > revision 1.155 > > date: 1998/06/10 18:13:19; author: julian; state: Exp; lines: +18 -8 > > Submitted by: Kirk McKusick > > > > Fix for potential hang when trying to reboot the system or > > to forcibly unmount a soft update enabled filesystem. > > FreeBSD already handled the reboot case differently, this is however a > better > > fix. > > > > ================== > > So as 1.155 indicates, this change came directly from The Source so I > believe > > it is necessary. The change in 1.156 is the key: by changing from the > 4.4bsd > > non-interruptible "sleep" to the possibly interruptible "tsleep" and > OR'ing > > in the "slpflag" the problem was introduced--now the sleep became > > interruptible when called on an interruptible NFS mount. > > > > That brings us to issue #2 which is what is the correct behavior in this > case? > > The easy way out is to just not OR in slpflag and go back to full-time > non- > > interruptibility (your #3). However, that probably isn't necessary. > I'm a > > bettin' that you could just slpx() and return the tsleep value (your #1) > > and all will be fine. (well, as fine as it ever is in the NFS world...) > > Thanks in advance. > > -Dave > > -- > work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com > University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ > Department of Computer Science > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 19:17:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24931 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:17:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24925 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:17:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.1/8.8.2) id VAA27187; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:17:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981216211723.A27176@Denninger.Net> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:17:23 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 09:37:00PM -0500 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Remove the intr for now. If that fixes it then at least we have hard proof of where it is. The problem is that vinvlbuf is not the only place you can get screwed. There is also a problem in the vm pager (it can hang in there too, as I've now been able to prove and isolate) due to what I *believe* is the same cause. This of course assumes you mount executable directories (very common in clusters) across NFS. Certainly the expected execution path is basically the same, and I can *trigger it* with a SIGINT to a running process which happens to have some of its working set paged out at the time it receives the signal (ouch!) -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) http://www.mcs.net/~karl I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 09:37:00PM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > yup, that code I forwarded seems to be where it goes bad: > > db> ps > pid proc addr uid ppid pgrp flag stat wmesg wchan cmd > 346 f683a080 f68e8000 1288 339 346 004086 2 vinvlbuf f69727c8 pine > 340 f6920600 f6960000 1288 325 340 004086 3 ttyin f02723d4 zsh > 339 f6920740 f695d000 1288 327 339 004086 3 pause f695d0f0 zsh > 338 f6920880 f6950000 1288 328 338 004086 3 ttyin f02721ec zsh > 332 f6920c40 f6928000 1288 1 293 004186 3 nanslp f0272148 kblob.kss > 329 f6920d80 f6925000 1288 1 324 004086 3 select f029995c knotes > 328 f6839b80 f68f5000 1288 1 322 004086 3 select f029995c kvt > 327 f69209c0 f693e000 1288 1 321 004086 3 select f029995c kvt > 326 f6839180 f6913000 1288 1 320 004086 3 select f029995c kmix > 325 f6838f00 f691a000 1288 1 323 004086 3 select f029995c kvt > 317 f6839040 f6917000 1288 303 293 004086 3 nanslp f0272148 maudio > ... > > I don't know why this happens off and on, last time i had these > problems was over a month ago. > > Anyone have any ideas? I can't pretend to know anything about vfs at this > point. :/ > > Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com > -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. > -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 19:22:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25483 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:22:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25458 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:22:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA05006; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:21:26 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199812170321.VAA05006@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: from Alfred Perlstein at "Dec 16, 1998 4: 9:27 pm" To: bright@hotjobs.com (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:21:25 -0600 (CST) Cc: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, nate@mt.sri.com, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > > > > All claimed advantages have absolutely nothing to do with the question > > > > > of placing your fortran compiler in the base system instead of a port. > > > > > > > > There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. > > > > > > I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. > > > > > > > Surprisingly, I would actually support this. > > > > You realize that doing so makes FreeBSD look bad to new compsci students > who all have to take that dreaded FORTRAN class sometime during their > education? > > Just one vote for keeping f2c and friends, or perhaps getting g77. > > Yes a lot of people have different expectations of FreeBSD, one of mine > and many compsci students is a useable FORTRAN enviornment. > This really isn't my thing, but.... 'base' should be the bare minimum to get the system running. I spent a few days trying to get freebsd to fit on a 48MB flash cartridge. The arguement that 'If someone installs FreeBSD and it doesn't have fortran will scare them off' is silly. If they can go through the setup, they can add a port. Is fortran a package as well as a port? Perhaps another distribution called 'math' or something similar.... Just like selecting X windows, someone could select if they want this or not, during the install. Please don't make 'base' any larger. I was planning on suggesting a while back to make it smaller, and much more modular. I'm all for keeping fortran an option, but.... We can't include every compiler as base, or base will be too big for some systems. :) Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 19:34:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26656 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:34:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26649 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:34:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA83886; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:33:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:33:55 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812170333.TAA83886@apollo.backplane.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Async blocking on temporary failures Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a general idea I'm throwing out that I believe could be integrated into FreeBSD pretty easily. It is the notion of not blocking on 'trivial' conditions deep, deep in the kernel, but instead flagging the task for an asynchronous wait and returning NULL. This gives us the ability to pop a temporary failure (typically NULL) to a higher level routine. The higher level routine can then decide what to do: i.e. block on the asynchronous wait queued by the subroutine or pop itself out to yet a higher level routine and let it deal with it, or do something else. An asynchronous wait capability would allow a deep, low level routine to propogate the blocking condition up through multiple procedural levels undoing any temporary locks made by those procedures before the blocking condition is actually acted upon. Why do we need this? Well, we have several serious deadlock problems within the kernel and these problems are only going to get worse with SMP as master locks are propogated inward. By my reading of the kernel, most of these deadlock situations occur when something deep within the kernel finds it necessary to block on some temporary situation such as trying to allocate memory or a buffer or something like that. Most of these blocking situations already incorporate hysterisis, which means that we *can* 'abort' the routine by initiating the async wait, returning NULL instead of blocking, and allowing some higher level procedure to determine when to actually block. An asynchronous wait capability thus allows a process to block without holding major locks (spinlocks, bp locks, vm_page locks, vnode locks, etc etc etc). I use asynchronous waits in some of my other OS projects and I have found them to be invaluable in their ability to avoid deadlocks and to even greatly simplify code. Here's an example to illustrate the idea: The (FS)->bread()->getblk()->allocbuf() chain would benefit greatly from such a mechanism. Assuming an async wait capability exists, allocbuf() could be adjusted such that it never blocks but instead returns 0 if an async wait occurs, allowing the chain to 'undo' itself back through getblk() and then have the blocking condition actually occur in the bread(). The mechanism could then eventually be extended on up past the bread() and be directly supported by FS code and thus avoid holding locks on (for example) vnodes due to a synchronous I/O request, which would massively increase parallelism on simultanious VFS/VNODE ops to the same descriptor (I'm thinking of mmap page faults specifically but it applies to any lseek()/read() combo). How it would work: Instead of tsleep()ing on a structure, we call asleep() instead and return a temporary failure. For example, a routine that allocates or returns a bp would call asleep() and return NULL rather then tsleep(), retry internally, and eventually return a valid bp. The higher level parent procedure can either propogate the failure up by undoing whatever locks it had and returning a condition (note: without calling asleep()), and eventually you get to a parent procedure which decides it must block waiting for the temporary failure to clear, then retry the call that failed. This routine blocks by calling await(). Now, asleep() and await() do not nest. There is a single embedded asyncwait structure in the struct process. An asleep() call *replaces* any previous async sleep. await() blocks the process on whatever the most recent asyncwait structure was. A wakeup on the associated address clears any queued asyncwait's. In the case where the async wait address is woken up prior to await() being called, the async wait structure is cleared by the wakeup and await() becomes a NOP. The async wait can also be cleared by calling asleep(NULL). Thus, *ALL* potential race conditions can be handled without any fancy coding. How to deal with race conditions: There are two ways to deal with potential race conditions. The traditional way is to call splbio() or equivalent to prevent other processes from waking up the object you are about to sleep on. You can still do this with asleep(). asleep() gives us another option: Call asleep() BEFORE testing the condition in the structure being waited on. Then test the condition and if you determine that you do not need to block, call asleep(NULL) to clear the async wait and continue as if nothing had happened. Specifically: /* * Block waiting for blah */ if (structure->flags & somecondition) { asleep(structure, ...); if (structure->flags & somecondition) { return failure.... } asleep(NULL, ...); } I invite discussion on this feature. I would be pleased to develop it for FreeBSD. I think it would be extremely useful, especially with SMP but also with non-SMP kernels in regards to avoiding deadlock situations in the kernel. I believe that the feature could be implemented easily and folded into major subsystems incrementally, 'fixing' the kernel from the inside out without having to make wholesale changes all in one shot. -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 20:48:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03084 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:48:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03079 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:48:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA00494; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:51:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:51:39 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Karl Denninger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) In-Reply-To: <19981216211723.A27176@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Karl Denninger wrote: > Remove the intr for now. If that fixes it then at least we have > hard proof of where it is. Already done. I'm silly, not suicidal about things :) > The problem is that vinvlbuf is not the only place you can get screwed. > There is also a problem in the vm pager (it can hang in there too, as I've > now been able to prove and isolate) due to what I *believe* is the same > cause. This of course assumes you mount executable directories (very > common in clusters) across NFS. You mean, if i'm running an executable over NFS? I've seen this but not nearly as often. In my case pine is local to the machine, but my mailbox isn't. Just because of curiousity, it's hanging because the program text retrieval from the binary (not swap) has a similar loop? > Certainly the expected execution path is basically the same, and I can > *trigger it* with a SIGINT to a running process which happens to have some > of its working set paged out at the time it receives the signal (ouch!) That doesn't seem very good at all. Is this second case for all NFS mounts? or only intr mounts? Thanks for the attention. Sorry i took so long to get some proof of this bug, it's just that it's a work machine and taking time out to do this isn't always possible. I'm sure tracking down/fixing the problem is on a totally different level, so thanks, -Alfred > > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) http://www.mcs.net/~karl > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 21:09:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05019 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:09:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05011 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:09:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.1/8.8.2) id XAA27449; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:08:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981216230855.A27443@Denninger.Net> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:08:56 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) References: <19981216211723.A27176@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 11:51:39PM -0500 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 11:51:39PM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > Remove the intr for now. If that fixes it then at least we have > > hard proof of where it is. > > Already done. I'm silly, not suicidal about things :) > > > The problem is that vinvlbuf is not the only place you can get screwed. > > There is also a problem in the vm pager (it can hang in there too, as I've > > now been able to prove and isolate) due to what I *believe* is the same > > cause. This of course assumes you mount executable directories (very > > common in clusters) across NFS. > > You mean, if i'm running an executable over NFS? I've seen this but not nearly as often. In my case pine is local to the machine, but my mailbox isn't. > > Just because of curiousity, it's hanging because the program text > retrieval from the binary (not swap) has a similar loop? Yep. It locks up the process in question. I suspect, but haven't yet proven, that if that lockup bites "pagedaemon" you're fucked on a system level. I *have* proven that the process in question gets hosed and deadlocks. Example: www 11988 0.0 0.5 6260 612 ?? D 8:12AM 0:00.99 /lbin/httpd.apa www 11994 0.0 0.5 6288 620 ?? D 8:12AM 0:06.68 /lbin/httpd.apa Guess what. Right at 8:12 in the morning the server gets "kicked" to produce logs (it gets sent a SIGINT). Hmmm..... > > Certainly the expected execution path is basically the same, and I can > > *trigger it* with a SIGINT to a running process which happens to have some > > of its working set paged out at the time it receives the signal (ouch!) > > That doesn't seem very good at all. Is this second case for all > NFS mounts? or only intr mounts? Don't know yet - still testing. > Thanks for the attention. Sorry i took so long to get some proof > of this bug, it's just that it's a work machine and taking time > out to do this isn't always possible. > > I'm sure tracking down/fixing the problem is on a totally different > level, so thanks, > > -Alfred Yep. I understand fully. What I want to know is whether a "ro,soft" mount has the same vulnerability. We use them around here for things like mounting the Usenet spool. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) http://www.mcs.net/~karl I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 21:12:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05462 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:12:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05456 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:12:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.1/8.8.2) id XAA27467; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:12:38 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981216231238.A27463@Denninger.Net> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:12:38 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) References: <19981216211723.A27176@Denninger.Net> <19981216230855.A27443@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981216230855.A27443@Denninger.Net>; from Karl Denninger on Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 11:08:56PM -0600 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 11:08:56PM -0600, Karl Denninger wrote: > Example: > www 11988 0.0 0.5 6260 612 ?? D 8:12AM 0:00.99 /lbin/httpd.apa > www 11994 0.0 0.5 6288 620 ?? D 8:12AM 0:06.68 /lbin/httpd.apa > > Guess what. Right at 8:12 in the morning the server gets "kicked" to > produce logs (it gets sent a SIGINT). Hmmm..... Oh, by the way, the lock happens HERE: 27724 11988 1754 0 -22 0 6260 612 vmpfw D ?? 0:00.99 /lbin/httpd. 27724 11994 1754 0 -22 0 6288 620 vmpfw D ?? 0:06.68 /lbin/httpd. "vmpfw". I checked the code; that's another tsleep call bracketed with spls. This executable is coming off an NFS volume and took the signal. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) http://www.mcs.net/~karl I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 21:23:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06287 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:23:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu (wrath.cs.utah.edu [155.99.198.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06282 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:23:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) Received: from lal.cs.utah.edu (lal.cs.utah.edu [155.99.192.110]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11999; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:23:13 -0700 (MST) From: David G Andersen Received: (from danderse@localhost) by lal.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02697; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:23:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199812170523.WAA02697@lal.cs.utah.edu> Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) To: karl@Denninger.Net (Karl Denninger) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:23:53 -0700 (MST) Cc: bright@hotjobs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981216230855.A27443@Denninger.Net> from "Karl Denninger" at Dec 16, 98 11:08:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lo and behold, Karl Denninger once said: > > On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 11:51:39PM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > Remove the intr for now. If that fixes it then at least we have > > > hard proof of where it is. It does. You may wish to look at PR kern/8732, which we opened about a month ago on exactly this topic. > > > cause. This of course assumes you mount executable directories (very > > > common in clusters) across NFS. Interesting. We didn't bump into this one, but my test program didn't check for it - only for the buffer flushing. > > > Certainly the expected execution path is basically the same, and I can > > > *trigger it* with a SIGINT to a running process which happens to have some > > > of its working set paged out at the time it receives the signal (ouch!) > > > > That doesn't seem very good at all. Is this second case for all > > NFS mounts? or only intr mounts? If it's like the bug we found (which I'd wager), it's probably for intr mounts. Like we mention in the PR, the problem seems to be related to the change from sleep to an interruptable tsleep. > What I want to know is whether a "ro,soft" mount has the same > vulnerability. We use them around here for things like mounting > the Usenet spool. Nope. Soft doesn't seem to affect it (at least, the last time I tested it). Another cheap fix is to not run any nfsiods, preventing the asynchronous flush from occuring in the first place. We've been hounding on this PR for a while (that's kern/8732. :), and would love to see a resolution for it. If someone wants to suggest the proper behavior, I'm more than happy to start drudging up a fix. -Dave -- work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ Department of Computer Science To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 22:11:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09675 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:11:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09670 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:10:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA00585; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:14:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:14:14 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Karl Denninger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) In-Reply-To: <19981216231238.A27463@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Karl Denninger wrote: > On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 11:08:56PM -0600, Karl Denninger wrote: > > Example: > > www 11988 0.0 0.5 6260 612 ?? D 8:12AM 0:00.99 /lbin/httpd.apa > > www 11994 0.0 0.5 6288 620 ?? D 8:12AM 0:06.68 /lbin/httpd.apa > > > > Guess what. Right at 8:12 in the morning the server gets "kicked" to > > produce logs (it gets sent a SIGINT). Hmmm..... > > Oh, by the way, the lock happens HERE: > > 27724 11988 1754 0 -22 0 6260 612 vmpfw D ?? 0:00.99 /lbin/httpd. > 27724 11994 1754 0 -22 0 6288 620 vmpfw D ?? 0:06.68 /lbin/httpd. > > > "vmpfw". I checked the code; that's another tsleep call bracketed with spls. > This executable is coming off an NFS volume and took the signal. > this is a pretty mean thing to do, but have you checked on the effects deleting a running binary has on a NFS client running that binary off a server? what do you tell the poor process? prolly something along the lines of "i'm sorry, but you'll never page again son" (sorry) :) Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) http://www.mcs.net/~karl > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 22:24:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11200 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:24:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11195 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:24:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA00607; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:27:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:27:30 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: David G Andersen cc: Karl Denninger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) In-Reply-To: <199812170523.WAA02697@lal.cs.utah.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, David G Andersen wrote: > Lo and behold, Karl Denninger once said: > > What I want to know is whether a "ro,soft" mount has the same > > vulnerability. We use them around here for things like mounting > > the Usenet spool. > > Nope. Soft doesn't seem to affect it (at least, the last time I tested > it). Another cheap fix is to not run any nfsiods, preventing the > asynchronous flush from occuring in the first place. > > We've been hounding on this PR for a while (that's kern/8732. :), and > would love to see a resolution for it. If someone wants to suggest the > proper behavior, I'm more than happy to start drudging up a fix. > p. 322 of Design and Implementation: ...begin... 3. Most system administrators take a middle ground by using an interruptible mount that will wait forever like a hard mount, but checks to see whether a termination signal is pending for the process that is waiting for a server responce. If a signal (such as an interrupt) is sent to a process waiting for an NFS server, the corresponding I/O system call returns with a transient error. (*1) Normally, the process is terminated by the signal.(*2) If the process shooses to catch the signal, then it can decided how to handle the transient failure. This mount option allows interactive programs to be aborted when a server fails, while allowing long-running processes to await the server's return. ...end... This isn't exactly good, a normal write should proceed as normal correct? Maybe it can delay the signal and try an extra 4-5 times and delay the signal untill after the syscall? Has anyone been able to reproduce the same sort of situation with a Solaris box? Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current > -Dave > > -- > work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com > University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ > Department of Computer Science > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 22:34:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12319 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:34:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtpott1.nortel.ca (smtpott1.nortel.ca [192.58.194.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12300 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:34:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Andrew.Macpherson.andrew@nortelnetworks.com) Received: from zcars01t by smtpott1; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:33:43 -0500 Received: from wmerh01z.ca.nortel.com by zcars01t; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:32:16 -0500 Received: from hcarp00g.ca.nortel.com (andrew@hcarp00g.ca.nortel.com@wmerh01z) by wmerh01z.ca.nortel.com with ESMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id BAA06009; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:32:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:43:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew Macpherson" To: David G Andersen cc: Karl Denninger , bright@hotjobs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) In-Reply-To: <199812170523.WAA02697@lal.cs.utah.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, David G Andersen wrote: > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:23:53 -0700 (MST) > From: David G Andersen > To: Karl Denninger > Cc: bright@hotjobs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) > > Lo and behold, Karl Denninger once said: > > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 11:51:39PM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > > > Remove the intr for now. If that fixes it then at least we have > > > > hard proof of where it is. > > It does. You may wish to look at PR kern/8732, which we opened about a > month ago on exactly this topic. Yep, I got bit by this while using amd. Updating amd seemed to reduce the frequency of the freezes, however one type of freeze was very easy to reproduce. While editing a file on an NFS partition with Xemacs, the system would consistently lock when Xemacs attempted to auto-save the document... it was doing a write to an NFS disk from a SIGALRM handler. Alfred's pine behaviour sounds like it might be similar. David suggested I toast my nfsiod's and since then the system's been rock-solid. As for mount options, I have `intr' enabled... I wonder if this PR is one of the deadlocks that Matt Dillon referred to in his recent mail to the list... Andrew > > > > > cause. This of course assumes you mount executable directories (very > > > > common in clusters) across NFS. > > Interesting. We didn't bump into this one, but my test program didn't > check for it - only for the buffer flushing. > > > > > Certainly the expected execution path is basically the same, and I can > > > > *trigger it* with a SIGINT to a running process which happens to have some > > > > of its working set paged out at the time it receives the signal (ouch!) > > > > > > That doesn't seem very good at all. Is this second case for all > > > NFS mounts? or only intr mounts? > > If it's like the bug we found (which I'd wager), it's probably for intr > mounts. Like we mention in the PR, the problem seems to be related to the > change from sleep to an interruptable tsleep. > > > What I want to know is whether a "ro,soft" mount has the same > > vulnerability. We use them around here for things like mounting > > the Usenet spool. > > Nope. Soft doesn't seem to affect it (at least, the last time I tested > it). Another cheap fix is to not run any nfsiods, preventing the > asynchronous flush from occuring in the first place. > > We've been hounding on this PR for a while (that's kern/8732. :), and > would love to see a resolution for it. If someone wants to suggest the > proper behavior, I'm more than happy to start drudging up a fix. > > -Dave > > -- > work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com > University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ > Department of Computer Science > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 22:44:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13233 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:44:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu (wrath.cs.utah.edu [155.99.198.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13228 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:44:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) Received: from lal.cs.utah.edu (lal.cs.utah.edu [155.99.192.110]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13540; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:44:15 -0700 (MST) From: David G Andersen Received: (from danderse@localhost) by lal.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03482; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:44:57 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199812170644.XAA03482@lal.cs.utah.edu> Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) To: bright@hotjobs.com (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:44:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: danderse@cs.utah.edu, karl@Denninger.Net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alfred Perlstein" at Dec 17, 98 01:27:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lo and behold, Alfred Perlstein once said: > as an interrupt) is sent to a process waiting for an NFS server, > the corresponding I/O system call returns with a transient error. > (*1) Normally, the process is terminated by the signal.(*2) Right. This is simply having the system call return EINTR, one of the options I duscuss. However, it's not clear to me that this is the best option when the action was triggered by a close() on a file descriptor. Certainly, if it happens during a write, most processes know how to cope with it -- and the kernel does the right thing, returning EINTR. However, when flushing a dirty block during a close, and you get an intr, what do you expect to do? Other BSDs don't have this problem because they call sleep() in this context, which isn't interruptable. That leads to the other simple fix I noted, changing the tsleep() call to not have the interruptable flag. (Thus making us equivalent to blahBSD, etc). But that means that you could potentially wedge a process on an NFS server that hung, despite the 'intr' flag. It also explains why removing the nfsiods works, because the buffer flushing occurs as a part of the write() (which is interruptable and behaves properly), instead of being delayed until the close. > > This isn't exactly good, a normal write should proceed as normal > correct? Maybe it can delay the signal and try an extra 4-5 times > and delay the signal untill after the syscall? It's not a write; most programs that are signal aware will notice the EINTR and retry the write. It's the close -- when was the last time you saw a program which checked the return value from close()? (The answer is about 20% of the time in usr.bin). Solaris isn't affected by this. It's FreeBSD specific due to the sleep() -> tsleep() change. -Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 22:54:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14142 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:52:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtpott1.nortel.ca (smtpott1.nortel.ca [192.58.194.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14135 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:52:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Andrew.Atrens.atrens@nortelnetworks.com) Received: from zcars01t by smtpott1; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:51:53 -0500 Received: from wmerh01z.ca.nortel.com by zcars01t; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:50:16 -0500 Received: from nortel.ca (atrens@nortel.ca@wmerh01z) by wmerh01z.ca.nortel.com with ESMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id BAA06053; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:50:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3678AC2F.2DC85099@nortel.ca> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:01:04 -0500 From: "Andrew Atrens" Reply-To: "Andrew Atrens" Organization: Nortel Networks ( formerly Bell-Northern Research ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: David G Andersen , Karl Denninger , bright@hotjobs.com Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Whooops! Looks like the Nortel (microsoft exchange) Gateway had some fun with my email address on my FreeBSD box (that I use from home)... Sorry guys the below message is actually from _me_. Please don't bother Mr. MacPherson, he must rue the day I chose to use my name (as account name) on this box... Andrew. "Macpherson, Andrew (A.) [EXCHANGE:HAL02:HM00-I:NT]" wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, David G Andersen wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:23:53 -0700 (MST) > > From: David G Andersen > > To: Karl Denninger > > Cc: bright@hotjobs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) > > > > Lo and behold, Karl Denninger once said: > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 11:51:39PM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > > > > > Remove the intr for now. If that fixes it then at least we have > > > > > hard proof of where it is. > > > > It does. You may wish to look at PR kern/8732, which we opened about a > > month ago on exactly this topic. > > Yep, I got bit by this while using amd. Updating amd seemed to reduce the > frequency of the freezes, however one type of freeze was very easy to > reproduce. While editing a file on an NFS partition with Xemacs, the > system would consistently lock when Xemacs attempted to auto-save the > document... it was doing a write to an NFS disk from a SIGALRM handler. > Alfred's pine behaviour sounds like it might be similar. > > David suggested I toast my nfsiod's and since then the system's been > rock-solid. > > As for mount options, I have `intr' enabled... > > I wonder if this PR is one of the deadlocks that Matt Dillon referred to > in his recent mail to the list... > > Andrew > > > > > > > > cause. This of course assumes you mount executable directories (very > > > > > common in clusters) across NFS. > > > > Interesting. We didn't bump into this one, but my test program didn't > > check for it - only for the buffer flushing. > > > > > > > Certainly the expected execution path is basically the same, and I can > > > > > *trigger it* with a SIGINT to a running process which happens to have some > > > > > of its working set paged out at the time it receives the signal (ouch!) > > > > > > > > That doesn't seem very good at all. Is this second case for all > > > > NFS mounts? or only intr mounts? > > > > If it's like the bug we found (which I'd wager), it's probably for intr > > mounts. Like we mention in the PR, the problem seems to be related to the > > change from sleep to an interruptable tsleep. > > > > > What I want to know is whether a "ro,soft" mount has the same > > > vulnerability. We use them around here for things like mounting > > > the Usenet spool. > > > > Nope. Soft doesn't seem to affect it (at least, the last time I tested > > it). Another cheap fix is to not run any nfsiods, preventing the > > asynchronous flush from occuring in the first place. > > > > We've been hounding on this PR for a while (that's kern/8732. :), and > > would love to see a resolution for it. If someone wants to suggest the > > proper behavior, I'm more than happy to start drudging up a fix. > > > > -Dave > > > > -- > > work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com > > University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ > > Department of Computer Science > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 22:57:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14541 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:57:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14536 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:57:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA00755; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:00:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:00:53 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: David G Andersen cc: karl@Denninger.Net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) In-Reply-To: <199812170644.XAA03482@lal.cs.utah.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, David G Andersen wrote: > Lo and behold, Alfred Perlstein once said: > > as an interrupt) is sent to a process waiting for an NFS server, > > the corresponding I/O system call returns with a transient error. > > (*1) Normally, the process is terminated by the signal.(*2) > > Right. This is simply having the system call return EINTR, one of the > options I duscuss. However, it's not clear to me that this is the best > option when the action was triggered by a close() on a file descriptor. > Certainly, if it happens during a write, most processes know how to cope > with it -- and the kernel does the right thing, returning EINTR. However, > when flushing a dirty block during a close, and you get an intr, what do > you expect to do? > > Other BSDs don't have this problem because they call sleep() in this > context, which isn't interruptable. That leads to the other simple fix I > noted, changing the tsleep() call to not have the interruptable flag. > (Thus making us equivalent to blahBSD, etc). But that means that you > could potentially wedge a process on an NFS server that hung, despite the > 'intr' flag. It also explains why removing the nfsiods works, because the > buffer flushing occurs as a part of the write() (which is interruptable > and behaves properly), instead of being delayed until the close. > > > > This isn't exactly good, a normal write should proceed as normal > > correct? Maybe it can delay the signal and try an extra 4-5 times > > and delay the signal untill after the syscall? > > It's not a write; most programs that are signal aware will notice the > EINTR and retry the write. It's the close -- when was the last time you > saw a program which checked the return value from close()? (The answer is > about 20% of the time in usr.bin). > > Solaris isn't affected by this. It's FreeBSD specific due to the > sleep() -> tsleep() change. Solaris has intr mounts, do you mean a close may ignore the intr and block forever possibly? does EINTR, maybe with a sysctl to auto-retry the operation sound bad? The process should get the signal regardless, any process that is careful enoughto trap should be careful enough about close problems. Blocking forever is just wrong, making people abide by 'published' man pages is expected. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current > -Dave > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 23:12:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15716 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:09:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA15711 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:09:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24746; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:09:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA08210; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:09:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA06289; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:09:17 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199812170709.XAA06289@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:09:17 -0800 In-Reply-To: Kevin Day "Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)" (Dec 16, 9:21pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Kevin Day , bright@hotjobs.com (Alfred Perlstein) Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) Cc: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, nate@mt.sri.com, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Dec 16, 9:21pm, Kevin Day wrote: } Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) } This really isn't my thing, but.... } } 'base' should be the bare minimum to get the system running. I spent a few } days trying to get freebsd to fit on a 48MB flash cartridge. I even hacked the 2.1.x version of "make release" to not put cc and friends in the "bin" part of the distribution (I put it in "compile" instead) and added a button in sysinstall to install it separately if desired. I've got machines that I will never use to compile any code, and I don't want anyone else compiling code on them either. BTW, I yanked out lpr, sendmail, uucp, and the r-commands as well. Not counting most of my local additions a fairly bare version of /usr is about 33 MB. Unfortunately it is a fairly major pain in the *ss to do this and maintain it while tracking the official source tree, since you have to keep doing "make release" and doing test installs which takes a lot of time and is not much fun. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 23:46:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19460 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:46:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns3.redbacknetworks.com (mail3.redbacknetworks.com [155.53.200.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19455 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:46:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sam@redbacknetworks.com) Received: from phred.redbacknetworks.com (phred.redbacknetworks.com [155.53.144.35]) by ns3.redbacknetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12994 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:46:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sam@localhost) by phred.redbacknetworks.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA21794; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:45:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:45:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812170745.XAA21794@phred.redbacknetworks.com> From: Sam Pigg To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tyan S1836DLUAN >512Mb problems Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Trying to use 1 gig of memory on a tyan S1836DLUAN (dual 450 PII's) >> running 3.0-RELEASE, keep having problems with the system freezing up, >> rebooting, compiles failing due to signal 11's etc. If I decrease the >> memory to 512 megs (I'm using those weird micron 256meg simms btw) >> everything works fine. Tyan claims this motherboard can support up to >> '1GB SPD SDRAM or SDRAM+ECC in addition to the new 100MHz >> SDRAMs' >> >> This motherboard uses the 440GX chipset, but another system with >> a tyan S1832DL (440BX chipset) suffers from the same symptoms when >> >512 megs of ram are installed. > >The problem is not with the motherboard. Most of the mother boards that >support SMP PII's have the same problem. I was unable to locate where in >the configs the problem comes from though. I was testing dual PII 400 >when they were first avalible from Compaq with 1.0 gig of 256meg dimms. >They are recognized fine by the bios but FreeBSD won't work with it. I >tested NT, Novell, and Sco all of which work although no where near as >well and the system with 512meg and SMP FreeBSD. > >Rob. I've upgraded the board bios, changed to a new memory vendor, etc etc. Still have exactly the same symptoms, and from what rob said it would seem this problem is specific to freebsd, and not any particular motherboard. Is anyone actually running a freebsd machine with more than 512 megs of memory? Anyone have a clue at all as to why freebsd can't support a gig of ram? windblows seems to have no problem (which doesnt help me much) Thanks, Sam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 16 23:55:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20313 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:55:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from root.com (root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20308 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:55:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@root.com) Received: from root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19359; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:57:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812170757.XAA19359@root.com> To: Sam Pigg cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tyan S1836DLUAN >512Mb problems In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:45:47 PST." <199812170745.XAA21794@phred.redbacknetworks.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:57:01 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >>> Trying to use 1 gig of memory on a tyan S1836DLUAN (dual 450 PII's) >>> running 3.0-RELEASE, keep having problems with the system freezing up, >>> rebooting, compiles failing due to signal 11's etc. If I decrease the >>> memory to 512 megs (I'm using those weird micron 256meg simms btw) >>> everything works fine. Tyan claims this motherboard can support up to >>> '1GB SPD SDRAM or SDRAM+ECC in addition to the new 100MHz >>> SDRAMs' >>> >>> This motherboard uses the 440GX chipset, but another system with >>> a tyan S1832DL (440BX chipset) suffers from the same symptoms when >>> >512 megs of ram are installed. >> >>The problem is not with the motherboard. Most of the mother boards that >>support SMP PII's have the same problem. I was unable to locate where in >>the configs the problem comes from though. I was testing dual PII 400 >>when they were first avalible from Compaq with 1.0 gig of 256meg dimms. >>They are recognized fine by the bios but FreeBSD won't work with it. I >>tested NT, Novell, and Sco all of which work although no where near as >>well and the system with 512meg and SMP FreeBSD. >> >>Rob. > > >I've upgraded the board bios, changed to a new memory vendor, etc etc. >Still have exactly the same symptoms, and from what rob said it would >seem this problem is specific to freebsd, and not any particular motherboard. > >Is anyone actually running a freebsd machine with more than 512 megs of >memory? Anyone have a clue at all as to why freebsd can't support >a gig of ram? windblows seems to have no problem (which doesnt help me much) Wcarchive is a Tyan 1662D (dual P6) motherboard with 1GB of RAM. Works great. Your problems sound like memory bus loading issues. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 03:01:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08195 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:01:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08189 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:01:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA23652 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:00:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981217050055.O5698@futuresouth.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:00:55 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: rwho idle time limit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there a reason rwho limits idle time displayed? The precision would seem, from a quick glance at rwhod.c, to be there, and certainly w and finger don't seem to have any troubles. /usr/src/usr.bin/rwho.c: if (aflg) { if (mp->myidle >= 100*60) mp->myidle = 100*60 - 1; if (mp->myidle >= 60) printf(" %2d", mp->myidle / 60); else printf(" "); } else printf(" "); printf(":%02d", mp->myidle % 60); Matt -- Patron Saint of Subsystems-Nobody-Gives-A-Flying-Donkey-Turd-About *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 04:01:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14365 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:01:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ruhrgebiet.individual.net (in-ruhr.ruhr.de [141.39.224.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA14355 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:01:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bs@adimus.de) Received: (from admin@localhost) by mail.ruhrgebiet.individual.net (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5) with UUCP id NAA12819 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:00:33 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail by mx.adimus.de with local (Exim 1.92 #1) for hackers@freebsd.org id 0zqbaG-0000ei-00; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:27:08 +0100 Received: from det.adimus.de(192.168.0.1) via SMTP by adimus.de, id smtpdax1542; Thu Dec 17 12:27:03 1998 Received: from bs by det.adimus.de with local (Exim 1.92 #1) for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG id 0zqba9-000337-00; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:27:01 +0100 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Minimal base systems (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Benedikt Stockebrand Date: 17 Dec 1998 12:27:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: Chuck Robey's message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:17:05 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 49 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Robey writes: > Steve, if you can't reply without getting personal, please take it to > usenet. Just like Bud Dodson you might as well blame me for getting personal in the start. Well, at least some of the misunderstandings (apparently I wasn't the only one to mistake Steve Kargls posting) with this issue seem to be solved. Anyway, from fiddling with assorted free Un*xen I've learned some important things: - You need a reliable, no-junk base system as a starting point for all other work. This is where Linux with its kernel-distribution splitup really loses (details on demand, but I don't want this to be misunderstood as Linux-bashing). - Changes to the base system need to be thoroughly tested. Unless there's good reason to change things you better don't. As a consequence it's actually better to keep old versions in the base system. - Things like perl5, gcc-2.8.2 (with proper c++ exception handling) or a rdist-6.1.4 are nice to have. However, updating them in the base system is trouble-prone so they better be added to the ports collection, at least until they have been properly tested. And if they're not needed for base functionality it's usually a *win* to put them in a package/port/whatever so people can choose what version to use---the fancy new one or the old one they've been building their system around. - The bigger a base system gets, the harder it is to keep it consistent. Both inherent complexity and turnaround times increase noticeably with every bit added to the base system. - Admitting that ones pet toy isn't really important enough to go into the base system is bl**dy fscking hard. Ask me about rdist... So long, Ben -- Benedikt Stockebrand Adimus Beratungsgesellschaft für System- System Administration & Design, und Netzwerkadministration mbH & Co KG IT Security, Remote System Mgmt Universitätsstr. 142, 44799 Bochum Opinions presented are my own. Tel. (02 34) 971 971 -2, Fax -9 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 04:04:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA15352 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:04:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from moray.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (moray.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.101.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA15323 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:04:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unclemib@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) Received: from mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (unclemib@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.101.17]) by moray.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA05727 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:04:04 +0800 From: Richard Sather Received: (from unclemib@localhost) by mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id UAA13428 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:04:02 +0800 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:04:02 +0800 Message-Id: <199812171204.UAA13428@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: hardware suggestions Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi all, i have to come up with a shortlist of hardware for a university research project. anyone out there have any suggestions for the following: a video camera/framegrabber - something i can hook to a FreeBSD box and grab mono/color images at 1-10 fps. wireless lan hardware - i need to broadcast images to a receiving station located inside a 500m radius. thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 05:02:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA23161 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:02:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA23154 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:02:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA07279; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:03:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199812171303.IAA07279@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:21:04 PST." <50335.913857664@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:03:11 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG jkh@zippy.cdrom.com said: :- most number crunching weenies don't want to take time out to figure :- out how to install the stupid thing, they just want to get their work :- done. So you argument is that even though they don't have any problem installing their favorite graphics package or game or TeX of whatever from a package, installing a fortran compiler from a package will totally baffle them? Seems weak to me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 05:06:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA23506 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:06:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from at.dotat.com (zed.dotat.com [203.38.154.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA23493 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:06:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hart@at.dotat.com) Received: from at.dotat.com (localhost.dotat.com [127.0.0.1]) by at.dotat.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00920; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:42:36 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199812171312.XAA00920@at.dotat.com> To: Richard Sather cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hardware suggestions In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:04:02 +0800." <199812171204.UAA13428@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:42:36 +1030 From: Leigh Hart Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Richard, Richard Sather wrote: > > I have to come up with a shortlist of hardware for a university > research project. > > anyone out there have any suggestions for the following: Sure. > a video camera/framegrabber - something i can hook to a FreeBSD > box and grab mono/color images at 1-10 fps. At the rough end of the scale, there are QuickCam drivers in FreeBSD, alternatively, the LINT kernel config suggests there is support for a Cortex-I frame grabber (ctx). Otherwise, check out www.freebsd.org and check the supported hardware list. > wireless lan hardware - i need to broadcast images to a receiving > station located inside a 500m radius. WaveLAN cards work quite nicely - I've got two offices hooked up between two buildings (250mtrs line of sight). Contact Integrity Data Systems on 08 9409 1011, either Ross Chiswell or Steve should be able to help you. Circa $500 each, there are other products too. Cheers Leigh -- | "By the time they had diminished | Leigh Hart, | | from 50 to 8, the other dwarves | Dotat Communications Pty Ltd | | began to suspect 'Hungry' ..." | GPO Box 487 Adelaide SA 5001 | | -- Gary Larson, "The Far Side" | http://www.dotat.com/hart/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 06:04:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA29470 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:04:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA29465 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:03:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA16096; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:03:49 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA93072; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:03:49 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981217150348.V68793@follo.net> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:03:48 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: David G Andersen , Alfred Perlstein Cc: karl@Denninger.Net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) References: <199812170644.XAA03482@lal.cs.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812170644.XAA03482@lal.cs.utah.edu>; from David G Andersen on Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 11:44:57PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 11:44:57PM -0700, David G Andersen wrote: > Lo and behold, Alfred Perlstein once said: > > as an interrupt) is sent to a process waiting for an NFS server, > > the corresponding I/O system call returns with a transient error. > > (*1) Normally, the process is terminated by the signal.(*2) > > Right. This is simply having the system call return EINTR, one of the > options I duscuss. However, it's not clear to me that this is the best > option when the action was triggered by a close() on a file descriptor. > Certainly, if it happens during a write, most processes know how to cope > with it -- and the kernel does the right thing, returning EINTR. However, > when flushing a dirty block during a close, and you get an intr, what do > you expect to do? Retry the close(), or wait for program termination. Any daemon should be careful about the return value from close(0. Or you could of course do something totally vile like this: Have the kernel fork the process. Have one of them continue the close(), screw the file-descriptor in the other one and return OK. When the sleep is over, finish the close and suicide. In _all_ cases you should allow SIGKILL to actually kill the process _somehow_. Screw dirty blocks, I want to be able to kill processes even if some stupid server in a locked room over there is dead. If I didn't want to be able to make my system behave, I'd be running NT. Eivind, who expect to be flamed over that one even though he _did_ call it totally vile. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 06:12:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA00756 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:12:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA00746 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:12:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.1/8.8.2) id IAA28507; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:11:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981217081149.A28502@Denninger.Net> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:11:49 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Eivind Eklund , David G Andersen , Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: yup, found it (NFS) References: <199812170644.XAA03482@lal.cs.utah.edu> <19981217150348.V68793@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981217150348.V68793@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Thu, Dec 17, 1998 at 03:03:48PM +0100 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Dec 17, 1998 at 03:03:48PM +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 11:44:57PM -0700, David G Andersen wrote: > > Lo and behold, Alfred Perlstein once said: > > > as an interrupt) is sent to a process waiting for an NFS server, > > > the corresponding I/O system call returns with a transient error. > > > (*1) Normally, the process is terminated by the signal.(*2) > > > > Right. This is simply having the system call return EINTR, one of the > > options I duscuss. However, it's not clear to me that this is the best > > option when the action was triggered by a close() on a file descriptor. > > Certainly, if it happens during a write, most processes know how to cope > > with it -- and the kernel does the right thing, returning EINTR. However, > > when flushing a dirty block during a close, and you get an intr, what do > > you expect to do? > > Retry the close(), or wait for program termination. Any daemon should > be careful about the return value from close(0. > > Or you could of course do something totally vile like this: > > Have the kernel fork the process. Have one of them continue the > close(), screw the file-descriptor in the other one and return OK. > When the sleep is over, finish the close and suicide. > > In _all_ cases you should allow SIGKILL to actually kill the process > _somehow_. Screw dirty blocks, I want to be able to kill processes > even if some stupid server in a locked room over there is dead. If I > didn't want to be able to make my system behave, I'd be running NT. Well, right now you can very easily end up with TOTALLY unkillable processes in the aforementioned tsleep (that I sent traces of last night); this is a minor issue by comparison. I am checking now to see if removing "intr" fixes BOTH conditions. So far so good, but it is way, way too early to know. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) http://www.mcs.net/~karl I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 06:47:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04323 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:47:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beowulf.utmb.edu (beowulf.utmb.edu [129.109.59.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04317 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:47:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu) Received: (from bdodson@localhost) by beowulf.utmb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) id IAA05207; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:44:03 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:44:03 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199812171444.IAA05207@beowulf.utmb.edu> From: "M. L. Dodson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Benedikt Stockebrand , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <50335.913857664@zippy.cdrom.com> References: <199812161556.JAA01638@beowulf.utmb.edu> <50335.913857664@zippy.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15p7 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > And I was willing to let the matter drop, but the flame content > > of the replies to Steve Kargl's comments seem unwarranted IMO. > > So, let me point out to those who seem so unsympathetic (and I am > > NOT ANY LONGER SUGGESTING THE ADDITION OF FORTRAN TO THE BASE > > SYSTEM -- shouting done on purpose!) the basis of my suggestion > > FWIW, I would be more than happy to see fortran be a part of the > base system. Yes it's big and gnarly, but there's a lot of fortran > still out there and most number crunching weenies don't want to take > time out to figure out how to install the stupid thing, they just > want to get their work done. > Ahhhhhh...... Finally someone who has knowledge of the people I've been describing. :) I'd go farther. And I am one so I can describe them. Most "number crunching weenies" I know are among the least "computer interested" people I know. Maybe it's contempt from being around them so much. > My only reservation here is that most truly decent fortran compilers > are commercial and I have to wonder at the general utility of any of > the freebie versions. > Yeah. I think I'm going to look into the Portland Group stuff Steve Kargl described. Sounds like a plan might be to recommend FBSD, Walnut Creek, XIG, and Portland Group compilers when evangelizing to this bunch. (I say XIG because they have an experimental hardware accelerated OpenGL project going on.) And number crunchers are not immune to budgetary constraints, but the cost of this list of software would get lost in the noise in most installations I know about. Bud Dodson > - Jordan -- M. L. Dodson bdodson@scms.utmb.edu 409-772-2178 FAX: 409-772-1790 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 07:26:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08764 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:26:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08758 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:26:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from ics.com (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id KAA25016; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:26:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36792298.B49D9F28@ics.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:26:16 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: devel@xfree86.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: _Xsetlocale References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is (just one reason) why ld.so.cache is just a bad idea. What would it take to get the boneheads who do the linux distributions to take /usr/X11R6/lib out of their ldconfig? XFree86 binaries have RPATH and NEEDEDs, so they don't need no steenking ld.so.cache. Dr Andrew C Aitchison wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, David Dawes wrote: > > I just asked one of the people who reported the problem to try doing that > > (removing /etc/ld.so.cache and rerunning ldconfig), and it didn't help. > > What did help was swapping the order of /usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib > > and /usr/X11R6/lib in /etc/ld.so.conf, then regenerating /etc/ld.so.cache. > > I know that this was suggested before, but that it can cause problems with > > libc5 based X clients. Should we suggest this as a workaround pending new > > libraries or not? > > I was one of those who reported the problem. > I've put /usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib before /usr/X11R6/lib in > /etc/ld.so.conf, and my RedHat 5.2 box is working with 3.3.3. > This is in fact the way that RedHat ship /etc/ld.so.conf, so > there may infact be no problem. I changed it since it was "obviously > broken" :-(. > > I say my machine is working again, that means at least one libc5 client > (acroread). I'm not familiar with _Xsetlocale (the subject line) so can't > say whether those problems in particular are fixed. > > I'm sure that RedHat will be releasing a XFree86 3.3.3 rpm as Vladimir > Dergachev suggested, but as always a new release of RedHat has come > out just before the new version of XFree86. > > Dr. Andrew C. Aitchison Computer Officer, DPMMS, Cambridge > A.C.Aitchison@dpmms.cam.ac.uk http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~werdna -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 07:35:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09630 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:35:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailc.telia.com (mailc.telia.com [194.22.190.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09622 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:35:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from s.lindgren@telia.com) Received: from d1o49.telia.com (root@d1o49.telia.com [195.198.194.241]) by mailc.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06618 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:35:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from prutten (t7o49p39.telia.com [195.198.195.159]) by d1o49.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA21489 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:35:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501be29d3$aa014200$9fc3c6c3@prutten> Reply-To: "Stefan Lindgren" From: "Stefan Lindgren" To: Subject: crt0 linking... Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:41:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id HAA09623 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, hackers. I'm trying to compile gcc-2.7.2.1 and I get the following error: /usr/libexec/aout/ld: crt0.o: No such file or directory. How do I solve that? Regards Stefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 08:17:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14723 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.lucon.org (ocean.lucon.org [209.249.10.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14717 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:17:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hjl@lucon.org) Received: by ocean.lucon.org (Linux Smail3.2.0.103 #1) id m0zqg6e-00038tC; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:16:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: From: hjl@lucon.org (H.J. Lu) Subject: Re: _Xsetlocale To: devel@XFree86.Org Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:16:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36792298.B49D9F28@ics.com> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Dec 17, 98 10:26:16 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > This is (just one reason) why ld.so.cache is just a bad idea. That is your opinion. Everything should be if egcs 1.1.1 is used on Linux. I can help if there is any problem. > > What would it take to get the boneheads who do the linux distributions > to take /usr/X11R6/lib out of their ldconfig? XFree86 binaries have > RPATH and NEEDEDs, so they don't need no steenking ld.so.cache. > /usr/X11R6/lib in ld.so.conf is not the problem. gcc 2.[78].x is. H.J. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 08:37:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16838 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:37:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16828 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:37:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from ics.com (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id LAA05320; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:37:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36793354.26B665ED@ics.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:37:40 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: devel@xfree86.org CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: _Xsetlocale References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "H.J. Lu" wrote: > > > > > This is (just one reason) why ld.so.cache is just a bad idea. > > That is your opinion. Up yours too. It's an opinion based on years of developing software on a variety of operating systems. I don't live in a one-OS world as you seem to do. I routinely look at how things work on other systems, and I know what works and I know what doesn't work. And after five years of developing on Linux I've seen this same problem over and over and over again -- the ld.so.cache causes more problems than it solves. > Everything should be if egcs 1.1.1 is used on Linux. Everything should be what??? Everything should be okay? Should we all hop in our time machines and jump forward to a point in time to when this is a fact, instead of just wishful thinking. In the mean time there are real people with real machines running what's out there today -- and it ain't egcs-1.1.1. Clicking your ruby shoes and saying "everything will be fine with egcs" isn't doing much to help those people NOW! (Telling people they should recompile XFree86 from source is hardly a viable solution either.) Perhaps you'd care to elaborate on how a different compiler will change link and ld.so semantics? > I can help if there is any problem. > > > > > What would it take to get the boneheads who do the linux distributions > > to take /usr/X11R6/lib out of their ldconfig? XFree86 binaries have > > RPATH and NEEDEDs, so they don't need no steenking ld.so.cache. > > > > /usr/X11R6/lib in ld.so.conf is not the problem. An opinion? > gcc 2.[78].x is. How is that? -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 09:26:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA21476 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:23:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA21446; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:22:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA08035; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:22:41 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:22:41 +0100 (CET) From: Didier Derny To: se@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Stefan Esser , didier@aida.org Subject: Re: Adaptec ANA 6944A TX and/or PCI problem In-Reply-To: <19981213124334.B564@mi.uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Stefan Esser wrote: > > This can be verified by looking at the map registers (address 0x10 > to 0x24 in PCI config space, have to check which one is correct for > the port map of the DEC Ethernet chip). But this information should > also be provided by the verbose boot ... > > > I ran the adaptec diagnostics, he saw two boards effectively, > > he saw the same io ports at the same adresses 0xc800, 0xc400... > > The boards can be distinguished in PCI config space (geographical > addressing) no matter, what their map registers are set to. > > Did you try with memory mapped registers (kernel build option, see > the driver sources, remove the definition of TULIP_IOMAPPED, the > comment most probably applies to anxient PCI bridges ... > I've not been able to try it I'll have to wait until January result of boot -v sorry, the beginning is missing PCI bus 1: Probing for devices on PCI bus 2: found-> vendor=0x1011, dev=0x0009, revid=0x22 class=02-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 intpin=a, irq=11 map[0]: type 4, range 32, base 0000c800, size 7 map[1]: type 1, range 32, base e3000000, size 7 de0: rev 0x22 int a irq 11 on pci2.4.0 de0: Cogent EM440TX 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de0: address 00:00:d1:1b:e3:e0 bpf: de0 attached found-> vendor=0x1011, dev=0x0009, revid=0x22 class=02-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 intpin=a, irq=10 map[0]: type 4, range 32, base 0000c400, size 7 map[1]: type 1, range 32, base e2800000, size 7 de1: rev 0x22 int a irq 10 on pci2.5.0 de1: Cogent EM440TX 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de1: address 00:00:d1:1b:e3:e1 bpf: de1 attached found-> vendor=0x1011, dev=0x0009, revid=0x22 class=02-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 intpin=a, irq=12 map[0]: type 4, range 32, base 0000c000, size 7 map[1]: type 1, range 32, base e2000000, size 7 de2: rev 0x22 int a irq 12 on pci2.6.0 de2: Cogent EM440TX 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de2: address 00:00:d1:1b:e3:e2 bpf: de2 attached found-> vendor=0x1011, dev=0x0009, revid=0x22 class=02-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 intpin=a, irq=15 map[0]: type 4, range 32, base 0000b800, size 7 map[1]: type 1, range 32, base e1800000, size 7 de3: rev 0x22 int a irq 15 on pci2.7.0 de3: Cogent EM440TX 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de3: address 00:00:d1:1b:e3:e3 bpf: de3 attached Probing for devices on PCI bus 3: found-> vendor=0x1011, dev=0x0009, revid=0x22 class=02-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 intpin=a, irq=10 map[0]: type 4, range 32, base 0000a800, size 7 map[1]: type 1, range 32, base e1000000, size 7 de4: rev 0x22 int a irq 10 on pci3.4.0 de4: Cogent EM440TX 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de4: address 00:00:d1:1b:e9:ae bpf: de4 attached found-> vendor=0x1011, dev=0x0009, revid=0x22 class=02-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 intpin=a, irq=12 map[0]: type 4, range 32, base 0000a400, size 7 map[1]: type 1, range 32, base e0800000, size 7 de5: rev 0x22 int a irq 12 on pci3.5.0 de5: Cogent EM440TX 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de5: address 00:00:d1:1b:e9:af bpf: de5 attached found-> vendor=0x1011, dev=0x0009, revid=0x22 class=02-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 intpin=a, irq=15 map[0]: type 4, range 32, base 0000a000, size 7 map[1]: type 1, range 32, base e0000000, size 7 de6: rev 0x22 int a irq 15 on pci3.6.0 de6: Cogent EM440TX 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de6: address 00:00:d1:1b:e9:b0 bpf: de6 attached found-> vendor=0x1011, dev=0x0009, revid=0x22 class=02-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 intpin=a, irq=11 map[0]: type 4, range 32, base 00009800, size 7 map[1]: type 1, range 32, base df800000, size 7 de7: rev 0x22 int a irq 11 on pci3.7.0 de7: Cogent EM440TX 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de7: address 00:00:d1:1b:e9:b1 bpf: de7 attached -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 09:46:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23488 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:46:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.lucon.org (ocean.lucon.org [209.249.10.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23479 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:46:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hjl@lucon.org) Received: by ocean.lucon.org (Linux Smail3.2.0.103 #1) id m0zqhV2-000393C; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:46:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: From: hjl@lucon.org (H.J. Lu) Subject: Re: _Xsetlocale To: devel@XFree86.Org Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:46:08 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36793354.26B665ED@ics.com> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Dec 17, 98 11:37:40 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > "H.J. Lu" wrote: > > > > > > > > This is (just one reason) why ld.so.cache is just a bad idea. > > > > That is your opinion. > > Up yours too. > > It's an opinion based on years of developing software on a variety of > operating systems. I don't live in a one-OS world as you seem to do. I > routinely look at how things work on other systems, and I know what > works and I know what doesn't work. And after five years of developing > on Linux I've seen this same problem over and over and over again -- the > ld.so.cache causes more problems than it solves. If you run # ldconfig -p you may see libX11.so.6 (libc5) => /usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib/libX11.so.6 libX11.so.6 (libc6) => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 As you can see, although we have the same name, libX11.so.6, it shows which C library it was linked against. We implement this TAG in ld.so.cache and ld.so so that ld.so won't pick up the wrong shared library when libX11.so.6 is asked. To support it, we also have to teach the linker to know it and tell gcc to pass -lc to linker when building the shared library. > > > Everything should be if egcs 1.1.1 is used on Linux. > > Everything should be what??? Everything should be okay? > I missed the OK part. > > Perhaps you'd care to elaborate on how a different compiler will change > link and ld.so semantics? See above. > > > I can help if there is any problem. > > > > > > > > What would it take to get the boneheads who do the linux distributions > > > to take /usr/X11R6/lib out of their ldconfig? XFree86 binaries have > > > RPATH and NEEDEDs, so they don't need no steenking ld.so.cache. > > > > > > > /usr/X11R6/lib in ld.so.conf is not the problem. > > An opinion? > > > gcc 2.[78].x is. > > How is that? > 1. gcc 2.7 won't pass -lc to linker when building the shared library. 2. gcc 2.8 is too buggy to use. -- H.J. Lu (hjl@gnu.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 10:22:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27625 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:22:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27619 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:22:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA29648; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:21:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma029646; Thu, 17 Dec 98 12:21:21 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19640; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:21:20 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199812171821.MAA19640@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <50713.913860173@zippy.cdrom.com> References: <50713.913860173@zippy.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, Nate Williams , Steve Kargl Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:21:20 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 16 December 1998 at 18:02, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: [snip] > I think that for a language to qualify, [to be in the base FreeBSD distribution] > it must first be successful to > a degree several orders of magnitude greater than that of Haskell. Or > any other functional programming language, for that matter. > > - Jordan I disagree strongly! One could argue that Visual Basic and Java and what-have-you are quite ``successful,'' but that doesn't mean that any of them should be part of the base FreeBSD distribution. The only languages and tools that should be part of the base FreeBSD distribution, IMHO, are those required to build the system. I could even agree with someone who argues that even those should not be included in the base system. Said another way, the base system should be as small as possible without making bootstrapping or installing too complex. There are legitimate complaints about too much bloat from including sendmail, uucp, cc, and others, much less FORTRAN. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 10:55:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00923 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:55:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns3.redbacknetworks.com (mail3.redbacknetworks.com [155.53.200.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00918; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:55:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sam@redbacknetworks.com) Received: from phred.redbacknetworks.com (phred.redbacknetworks.com [155.53.144.35]) by ns3.redbacknetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17558; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sam@localhost) by phred.redbacknetworks.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA22208; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:54:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:54:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812171854.KAA22208@phred.redbacknetworks.com> From: Sam Pigg To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tyan S1836DLUAN >512Mb problems Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG more data I probably should've included- the new memory I'm using is from the tyan approved/tested vendor list for this motherboard (dense-pac 256 Meg ECC SDRAM dimms) The cpu's are both PII-450's, and should not have any issues with >512 megs. The loading of the system I'm doing uses thousands of processes, which I can run more of with 512M than 1Gig. ie it fires off the processes slowly until it runs out of physical ram and then moves through swap when using 512M, with 1Gig, it freezes when it gets down to 350-255 megs free of physical ram. Tried juggling the new dimms around to different dimm slots, to no avail. I have a difficult time believing its a memory bus loading issue as this is ram thats actually been tested at tyan. Also have logs of vmstat -i -s -m and 'top' taken every second while loading up the processes before the system freeze, that show no apparent resource starvation going on. Any ideas? Thanks, -Sam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 11:10:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02917 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:10:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu (wrath.cs.utah.edu [155.99.198.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02910 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:10:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) Received: from torrey.cs.utah.edu (torrey.cs.utah.edu [155.99.212.91]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06022 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:10:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from danderse@localhost) by torrey.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA00440; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:10:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:10:24 -0700 (MST) From: "David G. Andersen" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/8732: nfs mounts with 'intr' can cause system hang X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13945.22202.436751.59097@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've submitted a patch to vfs_subr.c which causes the kernel to return EINTR on an interrupted close(). It's behaving properly on our systems, but I'd love it if other interested parties (Karl, Alfred, Andrew?) would give it a run before I say "look, it works." -dave Index: vfs_subr.c =================================================================== RCS file: /n/marker/usr/lsrc/FreeBSD/CVS/src/sys/kern/vfs_subr.c,v retrieving revision 1.174 diff -r1.174 vfs_subr.c 582,584c582,589 < tsleep((caddr_t)&vp->v_numoutput, < slpflag | (PRIBIO + 1), < "vinvlbuf", slptimeo); --- > if (error = tsleep((caddr_t)&vp->v_numoutput, > slpflag | (PRIBIO + 1), > "vinvlbuf", slptimeo)) { > if (error == EINTR) { > splx(s); > return (EINTR); > } > } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 11:11:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02976 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:11:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02967 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:11:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.41]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA21504; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:13:42 +0500 Message-ID: <36795782.26135986@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:12:02 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. L. Dodson" CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) References: <199812161556.JAA01638@beowulf.utmb.edu> <50335.913857664@zippy.cdrom.com> <199812171444.IAA05207@beowulf.utmb.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why hasn't anyone mentioned NAG ? http://www.nag.co.uk/ It's in list of commercial FreeBSD software. Pedro. M. L. Dodson wrote: > > Yeah. I think I'm going to look into the Portland Group stuff > Steve Kargl described. Sounds like a plan might be to recommend > FBSD, Walnut Creek, XIG, and Portland Group compilers when > evangelizing to this bunch. (I say XIG because they have an > experimental hardware accelerated OpenGL project going on.) And > number crunchers are not immune to budgetary constraints, but the > cost of this list of software would get lost in the noise in most > installations I know about. > > Bud Dodson > > -- > M. L. Dodson bdodson@scms.utmb.edu > 409-772-2178 FAX: 409-772-1790 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 11:23:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04083 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:23:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04078 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:23:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA04725; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:31:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) From: Steve Kargl Message-Id: <199812171931.LAA04725@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <36795782.26135986@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> from "Pedro F. Giffuni" at "Dec 17, 1998 2:12: 2 pm" To: pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Pedro F. Giffuni) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:31:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Pedro F. Giffuni: > Why hasn't anyone mentioned NAG ? > http://www.nag.co.uk/ > > It's in list of commercial FreeBSD software. > > Pedro. I have mentioned NAG. NAG produces a native FreeBSD Fortran 90 compiler. However, the last time I checked, NAG comes bundled with IMSL which drives the price up (~$900USD). Note: it is also difficult to get any pricing info from the URL. The Portland Groups product for linux costs ~$450USD when I purchased the compilers. It comes with a Fortran 77, Fortran 90, and HPF compilers. With the addition of the LinuxThreads that has been discussed the past few days, the HPF compiler should be able to take advantage of a SMP FreeBSD system. -- Steve finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 11:41:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06424 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:41:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06278 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:39:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.41]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA21547; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:41:39 +0500 Message-ID: <36795E0E.A01ED408@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:39:58 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Kargl CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) References: <199812171931.LAA04725@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Kargl wrote: > > According to Pedro F. Giffuni: > > Why hasn't anyone mentioned NAG ? > > http://www.nag.co.uk/ > > > > It's in list of commercial FreeBSD software. > > > > Pedro. > > I have mentioned NAG. NAG produces a native FreeBSD > Fortran 90 compiler. However, the last time I checked, > NAG comes bundled with IMSL which drives the price up (~$900USD). > Note: it is also difficult to get any pricing info from the URL. > Sorry, I didn't see it. They also offered to provide maintainance for a yearly fee. There is no FreeBSD version of Fortran 95: I guess if no one buys it, we can expect this tendency to continue :(. I did learn FORTRAN in the University, however the teacher insisted on not teaching structured programming: the nice thing about FORTRAN 77. I am pretty sure FORTRAN is still widely used, I even have some code from an IEEE magazine somewhere, but at least in my school FORTRAN died with VM/CMS. Pedro. > > -- > Steve > > finger kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu > http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 11:47:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07257 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:47:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA07247 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:46:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA03546; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:49:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:49:54 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: "David G. Andersen" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/8732: nfs mounts with 'intr' can cause system hang In-Reply-To: <13945.22202.436751.59097@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, David G. Andersen wrote: > > I've submitted a patch to vfs_subr.c which causes the kernel to return > EINTR on an interrupted close(). It's behaving properly on our > systems, but I'd love it if other interested parties (Karl, Alfred, > Andrew?) would give it a run before I say "look, it works." > > -dave does this signal the process? or just abort the flush with EINTR? i'm going to try it anyway, i don't run binaries off NFS so this ought to work for me for now. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current > > Index: vfs_subr.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /n/marker/usr/lsrc/FreeBSD/CVS/src/sys/kern/vfs_subr.c,v > retrieving revision 1.174 > diff -r1.174 vfs_subr.c > 582,584c582,589 > < tsleep((caddr_t)&vp->v_numoutput, > < slpflag | (PRIBIO + 1), > < "vinvlbuf", slptimeo); > --- > > if (error = tsleep((caddr_t)&vp->v_numoutput, > > slpflag | (PRIBIO + 1), > > "vinvlbuf", slptimeo)) { > > if (error == EINTR) { > > splx(s); > > return (EINTR); > > } > > } > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 11:56:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09114 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:56:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateway.toti.est.is (toti.est.is [194.144.208.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09096 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:56:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from totii@est.is) Received: from asus (asus.toti.est.is [192.168.255.2]) by gateway.toti.est.is (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA90789 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:56:11 GMT (envelope-from totii@est.is) Message-ID: <36796002.56339D47@est.is> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:48:18 +0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DE=F3r=F0ur=20=CDvarsson?=" Reply-To: thivars@est.is X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Locale related files and environment variables X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA09105 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there, I have several LOCALE related questions. Some problems started when I moved from FBSD2.2.7 to FBSD3.0 few weeks ago and I have not got rid of those problems. Before I used "tcsh" as the main shell because it supported our use of 8bit characters, but sh and csh did not, neither did bash. Today I can not use tcsh now, but sh and csh do work. I have environment "LANG=is.IS.ISO-8859-1" What is environment variable "LC_TYPE" ? What is in the "/usr/share/locale" directory? What is in the "/usr/share/nls" directory? What is in the "/usr/share/zoneinfo" directory? >From the person that got the Accented keyboard to the syscons! Þórður Ívarsson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 12:38:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13576 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:38:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13567 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:38:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA00389; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:41:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:41:11 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: "David G. Andersen" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/8732: nfs mounts with 'intr' can cause system hang In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, David G. Andersen wrote: > > > > > I've submitted a patch to vfs_subr.c which causes the kernel to return > > EINTR on an interrupted close(). It's behaving properly on our > > systems, but I'd love it if other interested parties (Karl, Alfred, > > Andrew?) would give it a run before I say "look, it works." > > > > -dave > > Index: vfs_subr.c > > =================================================================== > > RCS file: /n/marker/usr/lsrc/FreeBSD/CVS/src/sys/kern/vfs_subr.c,v > > retrieving revision 1.174 > > diff -r1.174 vfs_subr.c > > 582,584c582,589 > > < tsleep((caddr_t)&vp->v_numoutput, > > < slpflag | (PRIBIO + 1), > > < "vinvlbuf", slptimeo); > > --- > > > if (error = tsleep((caddr_t)&vp->v_numoutput, > > > slpflag | (PRIBIO + 1), > > > "vinvlbuf", slptimeo)) { > > > if (error == EINTR) { > > > splx(s); > > > return (EINTR); > > > } > > > } whoa! nope, didn't work for me: crashed on the first mail delete: db> ps pid proc addr uid ppid pgrp flag stat wmesg wchan cmd 342 f6920d80 f6925000 1288 341 342 004006 2 pine 341 f6920ec0 f6922000 1288 340 341 004086 3 pause f69220f0 zsh 340 f6839040 f6917000 1288 339 340 000184 3 select f0299d2c screen-3.7.4 339 f6839540 f6908000 1288 335 339 004186 3 pause f69080f0 screen-3.7.4 335 f6920240 f6982000 1288 333 335 004086 3 pause f69820f0 zsh 334 f6920380 f697e000 1288 332 334 004086 3 ttyin f02725bc zsh 333 f69204c0 f6979000 1288 297 285 004086 3 select f0299d2c kvt 332 f6920600 f6974000 1288 297 285 004086 3 select f0299d2c kvt 331 f6920740 f6970000 1288 297 285 004086 3 select f0299d2c kioslave 330 f6920880 f696c000 1288 297 285 004086 3 select f0299d2c kioslave 314 f6920b00 f692b000 1288 1 285 004186 3 nanslp f0272518 kblob.kss 309 f6838f00 f691a000 1288 295 285 004086 3 nanslp f0272518 maudio 301 f6839180 f6913000 1288 293 285 004086 3 select f0299d2c kpanel 300 f68392c0 f690f000 1288 292 285 004086 3 select f0299d2c krootwm 299 f6839400 f690c000 1288 291 285 004086 3 select f0299d2c kbgndwm 297 f6839680 f6902000 1288 289 285 004086 3 select f0299d2c kfm 296 f68397c0 f68ff000 1288 288 285 004086 3 select f0299d2c kwmsound 295 f6839900 f68fc000 1288 287 285 004086 3 nanslp f0272518 kaudioserver 293 f6839b80 f68f5000 1288 286 285 000086 3 wait f6839b80 sh 292 f6839cc0 f68f2000 1288 286 285 000086 3 wait f6839cc0 sh 291 f6839e00 f68ef000 1288 286 285 000086 3 wait f6839e00 sh 289 f683a080 f68e8000 1288 286 285 000086 3 wait f683a080 sh 288 f683a1c0 f68e5000 1288 286 285 000086 3 wait f683a1c0 sh 287 f683a300 f68e2000 1288 286 285 000086 3 wait f683a300 sh 286 f683a440 f68df000 1288 285 285 004086 3 select f0299d2c kwm 285 f683a580 f68da000 1288 283 285 004086 3 wait f683a580 sh 284 f683a6c0 f68cb000 1288 283 284 004184 3 select f0299d2c Xaccel 283 f683a800 f68c9000 1288 278 278 004086 3 wait f683a800 xinit 278 f683a940 f68c4000 1288 264 278 004086 3 wait f683a940 sh 277 f683aa80 f68c2000 0 273 277 004086 3 ttyin f0294610 cat 273 f683abc0 f68bf000 0 271 273 004086 3 pause f68bf0f0 zsh 271 f683ad00 f68bb000 0 263 271 004086 3 pause f68bb0f0 csh 270 f683ae40 f68b4000 0 1 270 004086 3 ttyin f029797c getty 269 f683af80 f68ae000 0 1 269 004086 3 ttyin f0297888 getty 268 f683b0c0 f68ab000 0 1 268 004086 3 ttyin f0297794 getty 267 f683b200 f68a8000 0 1 267 004086 3 ttyin f02976a0 getty 266 f683b5c0 f6897000 0 1 266 004086 3 ttyin f02975ac getty 265 f683b700 f6894000 0 1 265 004086 3 ttyin f02974b8 getty 264 f683c880 f6850000 1288 1 264 004086 3 pause f68500f0 zsh 263 f683c9c0 f684c000 1288 1 263 004086 3 pause f684c0f0 zsh 235 f683b340 f689f000 0 1 235 000084 3 select f0299d2c sshd1 193 f683b840 f6890000 0 1 193 000084 2 moused 157 f683b980 f688d000 0 1 157 000184 3 select f0299d2c sendmail 154 f683bac0 f6888000 0 1 154 000084 3 select f0299d2c lpd 150 f683bc00 f6884000 0 1 150 000084 3 nanslp f0272518 cron 147 f683c240 f6875000 0 1 147 000084 3 select f0299d2c inetd 125 f683bd40 f6881000 0 1 120 000084 3 nfsrcvlk f686ccc0 nfsiod 124 f683be80 f687e000 0 1 120 000084 3 nfsrcvlk f686ccc0 nfsiod 123 f683bfc0 f687b000 0 1 120 000084 3 nfsrcvlk f686ccc0 nfsiod 122 f683c100 f6878000 0 1 120 000004 3 sbwait f6660e04 nfsiod 109 f683c380 f6872000 1 1 109 000184 3 select f0299d2c portmap 100 f683c4c0 f6861000 0 1 100 000084 3 select f0299d2c syslogd 33 f683c740 f685b000 0 1 33 000084 3 pause f685b0f0 adjkerntz 26 f683c600 f685e000 0 1 26 000084 3 mfsidl f6835700 mount_mfs 4 f683cb00 f6847000 0 0 0 000204 3 syncer f0299cdc syncer 3 f683cc40 f6845000 0 0 0 000204 3 psleep f02925e4 vmdaemon 2 f683cd80 f6843000 0 0 0 000204 3 psleep f0265370 pagedaemon 1 f683cec0 f6841000 0 0 1 004084 3 wait f683cec0 init 0 f0299038 f02e8000 0 0 0 000204 3 sched f0299038 swapper 290 f6839f40 f68ec000 1288 286 285 002006 5 sh my window manager settings got hosed as well. *grrr* thanks for the attempt though. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 13:02:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16217 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:02:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stage1.thirdage.com (stage1.thirdage.com [204.74.82.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16212 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:01:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jal@ThirdAge.com) Received: from gigi (gigi.thirdage.com [204.74.82.169]) by stage1.thirdage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA19177 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:56:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981217125726.03b115d0@mail.thirdage.com> X-Sender: jal@mail.thirdage.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:59:23 -0800 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Jamie Lawrence Subject: Re: _Xsetlocale In-Reply-To: <36793354.26B665ED@ics.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> That is your opinion. > >Up yours too. Ah, I love the holiday season. Every list I'm on erupts at least once a week (some multiple times a day) with beautiful, bubbly holiday flames. -j To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 14:08:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24844 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:08:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtpott1.nortel.ca (smtpott1.nortel.ca [192.58.194.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24839 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:08:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Andrew.Atrens.atrens@nortelnetworks.com) Received: from zcars01t by smtpott1; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:08:01 -0500 Received: from wmerh01z.ca.nortel.com by zcars01t; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:06:15 -0500 Received: from hcarp00g.ca.nortel.com (atrens@hcarp00g.ca.nortel.com@wmerh01z) by wmerh01z.ca.nortel.com with ESMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id RAA09026; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:06:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:14:20 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew Atrens" Reply-To: "Andrew Atrens" To: "David G. Andersen" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/8732: nfs mounts with 'intr' can cause system hang In-Reply-To: <13945.22202.436751.59097@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So far, so good ... my system is current as of Dec 16. Andrew. -- On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, David G. Andersen wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:10:24 -0700 (MST) > From: David G. Andersen > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: kern/8732: nfs mounts with 'intr' can cause system hang > > > I've submitted a patch to vfs_subr.c which causes the kernel to return > EINTR on an interrupted close(). It's behaving properly on our > systems, but I'd love it if other interested parties (Karl, Alfred, > Andrew?) would give it a run before I say "look, it works." > > -dave > > Index: vfs_subr.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /n/marker/usr/lsrc/FreeBSD/CVS/src/sys/kern/vfs_subr.c,v > retrieving revision 1.174 > diff -r1.174 vfs_subr.c > 582,584c582,589 > < tsleep((caddr_t)&vp->v_numoutput, > < slpflag | (PRIBIO + 1), > < "vinvlbuf", slptimeo); > --- > > if (error = tsleep((caddr_t)&vp->v_numoutput, > > slpflag | (PRIBIO + 1), > > "vinvlbuf", slptimeo)) { > > if (error == EINTR) { > > splx(s); > > return (EINTR); > > } > > } > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 14:16:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25480 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:16:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from galea.com (Odie.Galea.Com [205.237.227.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA25473 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:16:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sepotvin@videotron.ca) Received: from gotlib.galea.com (Gotlib.Galea.Com [205.237.227.60]) by galea.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA15104 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:34:23 -0500 Received: from videotron.ca ([205.237.227.166]) by gotlib.galea.com (Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) with SMTP id 852566DD.007A3E99; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:15:14 -0500 Message-ID: <367982A4.F24161D3@videotron.ca> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:16:04 -0500 From: "Stephane E. Potvin" Organization: Galea Network Security X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New bootloader and network iface Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have to be able to boot a kernel over the network. Looking at the new bootloader. I gather from the code that it should be possible given that the right device support is added. Does anyone know if any nic is already supported and if so where I could find the code? If there are no nic drivers available right now is there any doc about what the bootloader is expecting the driver to look like apart from the code? Btw, I can't use nic boot roms to do it. Thanks in advance! Stephane E. Potvin Galea Network Security To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 14:20:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25976 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:20:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25969 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:20:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA47176 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:19:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:19:21 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812171821.MAA19640@spawn.nectar.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Jacques Vidrine wrote: [I trimmed the cc list, it was covering the world anyways] > On 16 December 1998 at 18:02, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > [snip] > > I think that for a language to qualify, > [to be in the base FreeBSD distribution] > > it must first be successful to > > a degree several orders of magnitude greater than that of Haskell. Or > > any other functional programming language, for that matter. > > > > - Jordan > > I disagree strongly! One could argue that Visual Basic and Java and > what-have-you are quite ``successful,'' but that doesn't mean that any > of them should be part of the base FreeBSD distribution. > > The only languages and tools that should be part of the base FreeBSD > distribution, IMHO, are those required to build the system. This kind of attitude, make things as minimal and difficult as possible, is why Unix has such a reputation as the hardest OS on the block. Seems to me kinda strange, all the guys who know perfectly well how to trim things down to size, all want things to be done custom for them, and to ignore the guys who are newbies. OK, my own opinion (if it's not obvious) is that we need a middle ground between making things too overly heavy, and trimming out so much usefulness that no one except hardcore techies will give it a look. I think, personally, that a gigantic super-package of various packages (from ports) ought to be prepared, and that super-package offered as another extension. We could all argue what would go into it, but the lamest newbie would bless us. Man, what a super one-cdrom offering that'd make! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 14:28:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26937 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:28:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26930 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:28:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA18643; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:28:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA03922; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:28:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:28:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199812172228.PAA03922@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Chuck Robey Cc: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: References: <199812171821.MAA19640@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > ... One could argue that Visual Basic and Java and > > what-have-you are quite ``successful,'' but that doesn't mean that any > > of them should be part of the base FreeBSD distribution. > > > > The only languages and tools that should be part of the base FreeBSD > > distribution, IMHO, are those required to build the system. > > This kind of attitude, make things as minimal and difficult as possible, > is why Unix has such a reputation as the hardest OS on the block. I disagree. Most early releases of unix (the ones that were the most difficult to use) had *LOTS* of languages on them. The SystemIII version I have at home has about 7 of them that came with it, and more if you consider 'AWK', 'SH', and such to be languages. > Seems to me kinda strange, all the guys who know perfectly well how to > trim things down to size, all want things to be done custom for them, > and to ignore the guys who are newbies. The requirement of almost every installation to have a couple of packages installed implies that the user should know how to install them. Once they are able to install one package, the addition of a couple more makes the issue of 'base OS' vs. 'packages' a moot point. It also means that the 'base OS' is easier to install, build, and debug since it relies less on features that aren't critical to those tasks, so the developers can focus their efforts on adding new features and fixing bugs. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 16:48:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14953 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:48:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14941 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:48:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id LAA03955; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:17:58 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA25095; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:17:57 +1030 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:17:57 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Nate Williams Cc: Chuck Robey , FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812172228.PAA03922@mt.sri.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > > The only languages and tools that should be part of the base FreeBSD > > > distribution, IMHO, are those required to build the system. > > > > This kind of attitude, make things as minimal and difficult as possible, > > is why Unix has such a reputation as the hardest OS on the block. > > I disagree. Most early releases of unix (the ones that were the most > difficult to use) had *LOTS* of languages on them. The SystemIII > version I have at home has about 7 of them that came with it, and more > if you consider 'AWK', 'SH', and such to be languages. While I don't expect to see it done soon (I'm not quite good enough yet to work on this myself, although I'm getting there), I wouldn't complain at all if sendmail, uucp, fortran, maybe even gcc, etc. [1] were ripped from the base system and turned into additional ports. Arguing that this makes it hard for newbies is moot - Win95 does the same thing with its install (lets you customize what gets installed), and presumably a sysinstall in this mythical FreeBSD would have very clear options to install the packages either at install-time, or later on, and explain what each of them does and who needs them. Packages for which there is not significant usae (e.g. uucp), or which a large enough number of people want to rip out and replace (e.g. sendmail) should not be made mandatory (providing of course they can be maintained properly wherever they end up - making something into a port under the current framework wouldn't probably work well, because of the need to either create a mass of patches, or frequently update the distfile). One could even create a bunch of "stubs" for things like sendmail, etc, which report back "This package is not installed. To use sendmail, type "cd /usr/ports/mail/sendmail && make install". Really, this could be so easy that any idiot could do it. [1] It's conceivable that this would lead to more inter-operability between the alternative components (e.g. smtp agent, etc, in the long run, by localizing the system and encouraging people not to make gratuitous changes elsewhere. Of course, there would continue to be a single (or small group of) supported options (gcc 2.7.2.1/egcs 1.1.1, sendmail/qmail, perhaps), but it leaves the door open for people to add their own module, make it compatible, and maintain it. Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 17:23:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18844 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:23:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18837 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:23:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23615; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:23:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd023596; Thu Dec 17 18:23:14 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19532; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:23:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812180123.SAA19532@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 01:23:11 +0000 (GMT) Cc: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812162006.NAA24553@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 16, 98 01:06:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. > > I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. And the C compiler, while you are at it. And troff and the other text processing tools. And Common LISP. Let's see, are we leaving out any of the steps used by Sun to piss off people who used to buy SunOS before they unbundled the languages? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 17:32:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20340 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:32:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20334 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:32:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26216; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:32:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd026186; Thu Dec 17 18:32:31 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19720; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:32:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812180132.SAA19720@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Fortran continued [Re: sysinstall] To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu (Steve Kargl) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 01:32:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812162328.PAA82562@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> from "Steve Kargl" at Dec 16, 98 03:28:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/g77-0.5.23.tar.gz > > more README.g77 > ... > * To build GNU Fortran, you must have a source distribution of gcc > version 2.8. Do not attempt to use any other version > of gcc, because this version of g77 is designed to work only with > gcc version 2.8. > ... > > I think ports/lang/g77 should be removed, or it should point at egcs. egcs still requires you to choose, at the time you build the compiler, whether you will *ever* be able to compile threaded programs. Then, if you choose to compile threaded programs, correct operation of non-threaded programs is not guaranteed (unresovled external for the threads exception stack) unless you link *all* your code, threaded or not, against libc_r. We have tread this ground before. The egcs code assumes threads do not add overhead if they are not being used -- in other words, it assumes kernel threads. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 17:33:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20455 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:33:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20443 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:33:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akm@zeus.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by zeus.theinternet.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA10066; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:33:28 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199812180133.LAA10066@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812180123.SAA19532@usr08.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Dec 18, 98 01:23:11 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:33:28 +1000 (EST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Terry Lambert ]--------------------------------------------- | > > There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. | > | > I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. | | And the C compiler, while you are at it. I will personally hunt down and publically humiliate anyone who does this... | Let's see, are we leaving out any of the steps used by Sun to | piss off people who used to buy SunOS before they unbundled | the languages? Charging (a substantial amount) for the 'ansi' C and C++ compilers, that used to come with box, without making the hardware/OS cheaper. -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 17:46:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21646 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:46:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21641 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:46:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA20001; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:46:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA04784; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:46:03 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:46:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199812180146.SAA04784@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Andrew Kenneth Milton Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), nate@mt.sri.com, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812180133.LAA10066@zeus.theinternet.com.au> References: <199812180123.SAA19532@usr08.primenet.com> <199812180133.LAA10066@zeus.theinternet.com.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > +----[ Terry Lambert ]--------------------------------------------- > | > > There is already a Fortran compiler in the base system. > | > > | > I'd argue (heck, I am arguing. :) that it should be removed. > | > | And the C compiler, while you are at it. > > I will personally hunt down and publically humiliate anyone who > does this... Please don't fall into Terry's silly argument. He hasn't gotten into an argument in 2-3 minutes and is missing it. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 18:14:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25481 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:14:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25474 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00576; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:12:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812180212.SAA00576@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Stephane E. Potvin" cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New bootloader and network iface In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:16:04 EST." <367982A4.F24161D3@videotron.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:12:37 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have to be able to boot a kernel over the network. > Looking at the new bootloader. I gather from the code that > it should be possible given that the right device support > is added. Does anyone know if any nic is already supported > and if so where I could find the code? If there are no nic > drivers available right now is there any doc about what > the bootloader is expecting the driver to look like apart > from the code? Btw, I can't use nic boot roms to do it. There's no documentation, apart from the code at this stage, no. Network booting works on the Alpha, although it has some rough edges at the moment. If you're interested in working on this, I'd be more than happy to help you with it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 18:20:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26039 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:20:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26030 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:20:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00628; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:18:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812180218.SAA00628@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Richard Sather cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hardware suggestions In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:04:02 +0800." <199812171204.UAA13428@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:18:29 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > anyone out there have any suggestions for the following: > > a video camera/framegrabber - something i can hook to a FreeBSD > box and grab mono/color images at 1-10 fps. Get a BT848-based card and a cheap secondhand VCR for probably best results. Most of the other stuff around is junk, or our support is poor. > wireless lan hardware - i need to broadcast images to a receiving > station located inside a 500m radius. Wavelan. Leigh recommended Ross Chiswell; I second that, if you're in WA Ross is The Man. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 18:56:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00983 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:56:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt2-57.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00801 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:56:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02468 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:42:39 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199812180142.TAA02468@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) In-reply-to: Message from Nate Williams of "Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:28:28 MST." <199812172228.PAA03922@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:42:39 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams writes: > The requirement of almost every installation to have a couple of > packages installed implies that the user should know how to install > them. Once they are able to install one package, the addition of a > couple more makes the issue of 'base OS' vs. 'packages' a moot point. > It also means that the 'base OS' is easier to install, build, and debug > since it relies less on features that aren't critical to those tasks, so > the developers can focus their efforts on adding new features and fixing > bugs. It wouldn't be such a bad idea if *everything* was a package (including the kernel) leaving sysinstall to be a glorified pkg_add. SGI's Irix is this way. Am not sure Solaris doesn't do similar. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 18:56:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00997 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:56:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt2-57.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00984 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:56:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02439 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:33:18 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199812180133.TAA02439@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-reply-to: Message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:24:39 PST." <50369.913857879@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:33:18 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > I don't know of *ANY* University that teaches Fortran to Comp. Sci > > students. Fortran is a dead language, and is only used by engineers > > that have already existing Fortran code. > > I can name at least 4, and they're all major universities. > > The death of fortran has been predicted and, in several cases, > announced since 1965. Recently at work in the planning stages of a new computing center The Bosses tried to shoot me down for including Fortran on their wonderful new State-Of-The-Art systems. My justification (I hate working in Fortran. I hate it when users come to me wanting to know why their Fortran data files are being overwritten with 256 nulls) was another question, "How many of your analysts are over 30 years old?" Fortran was left in the proposal. The sad thing is these same analysts are "training" the new guys in the same bad old habits. They have models which they trust, coded in Fortran. Fortunately most have been weaned off VMS onto Unix and loath changing again to NT. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. But am happier to support Fortran under Unix than anything under NT. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 19:02:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01312 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:02:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01307 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:02:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00859; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:00:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812180300.TAA00859@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: David Kelly cc: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:42:39 CST." <199812180142.TAA02468@n4hhe.ampr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:00:05 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It wouldn't be such a bad idea if *everything* was a package (including > the kernel) leaving sysinstall to be a glorified pkg_add. SGI's Irix is > this way. Am not sure Solaris doesn't do similar. We're working on this. It presents some unique problems when you attempt to interact with "make world", but there is yet hope. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 19:42:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07202 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:42:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07197 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:42:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (kulshedra [10.0.1.99]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA26973; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:42:49 +0200 Message-ID: <3679EB70.6753D0B7@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 07:43:12 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Kelly CC: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) References: <199812180142.TAA02468@n4hhe.ampr.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It wouldn't be such a bad idea if *everything* was a package (including > the kernel) leaving sysinstall to be a glorified pkg_add. SGI's Irix is great idea !!!. (at fist this smaller then PicoBSD, then .... ) > > this way. Am not sure Solaris doesn't do similar. yes. And SCO Open Server. and .... Linux. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 20:05:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10296 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:05:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt3-95.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA10289 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:05:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00492 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:05:40 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199812180405.WAA00492@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall In-reply-to: Message from Mike Smith of "Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:00:05 PST." <199812180300.TAA00859@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:05:39 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith writes: > > > > It wouldn't be such a bad idea if *everything* was a package (including > > the kernel) leaving sysinstall to be a glorified pkg_add. SGI's Irix is > > this way. Am not sure Solaris doesn't do similar. > > We're working on this. It presents some unique problems when you > attempt to interact with "make world", but there is yet hope. "make world" would built the packages, then using the currently installed package database would only update installed packages. Of course it would refuse to do anything if there are missing packages needed as dependancies. I am quite familiar as a user of SGI's "inst" and "swmgr" (GUI to inst). Have spent *far* more time using swmgr to install/delete than with sysinstall. Don't know much of the details of creating an SGI package. Have been thinking of touching up my (unpublished) SGI port of FreeBSD's tcopy and rolling it up in an SGI inst-able package. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 20:13:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11084 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:13:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11074 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:13:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from fermion (fermion [10.0.1.2]) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA00639; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:36:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Message-Id: <199812180436.XAA00639@quark.ChrisBowman.com> X-Sender: crb@quark X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:10:12 -0500 To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua From: "Christopher R. Bowman" Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) Cc: David Kelly , FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3679EB70.6753D0B7@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> References: <199812180142.TAA02468@n4hhe.ampr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 07:43 AM 12/18/98 +0200, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > >> >> It wouldn't be such a bad idea if *everything* was a package (including >> the kernel) leaving sysinstall to be a glorified pkg_add. SGI's Irix is > > great idea !!!. > >(at fist this smaller then PicoBSD, then .... ) > > >> >> this way. Am not sure Solaris doesn't do similar. > >yes. And SCO Open Server. and .... Linux. I second this, if the base system was nothing more than a set of packages this might encourage more people to play with different directions for the sysinstall mechanism. -------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com http://www.ChrisBowman.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 20:37:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14776 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:37:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14758 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:37:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23474; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:37:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd023233; Thu Dec 17 21:36:59 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA24884; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:36:42 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812180436.VAA24884@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:36:42 +0000 (GMT) Cc: akm@zeus.theinternet.com.au, tlambert@primenet.com, nate@mt.sri.com, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812180146.SAA04784@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 17, 98 06:46:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > | And the C compiler, while you are at it. > > > > I will personally hunt down and publically humiliate anyone who > > does this... > > Please don't fall into Terry's silly argument. He hasn't gotten into an > argument in 2-3 minutes and is missing it. Given a framework that is sufficiently less onerous than the current ports mechanism that a computer scientist would be willing to use it to install the C compiler is a good starting point for a mechanism that a physicist would be willing to use to install the FORTRAN compiler. Arguing that FORTRAN should be removed because some Physicist somewhere will probably be willing to stop doing physics long enough to maintain a language port (a problem for a Computer Scientist, that) is just plain silly. For these people, computers are tools, not ends in themselves, and when one tool stops being useful, they don't open up the hood and fix things, they change to a differnt tool that doesn't have the problem. To jump on Jordan's favorite analogy, the car, these guys are drivers, not mechanics, and they are so far afield from the guts of how the tool works (other than its applicability as a tool) that if the Os were a car and it ran out of gas, they would buy a new car rather than learn where the gas cap was. If you are going to go ripping "useless" things like FORTRAN out of FreeBSD, while as the same time adding "useful" things like Perl, then you might as well do it right. If a language that has been integral to a UNIX box's identity *as* a UNIX box since practically before there was such a thing as UNIX is going to be seperated into a component, then at least have the decency to seperate it in a useful way. This basically means that if you are going to break the OS into layered software, the layered software has to be as transparent to install as the OS itself. This *doesn't* mean that a typical physicist should have to trapse through a maze of twisty checkboxes in categories recognizable to computer scientists (and maybe technical lexicographers, but not physicists) which all look alike, just to install what was, historically, a base system component. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 20:45:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15612 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:45:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15605 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:45:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24682; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:14:53 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199812180436.VAA24884@usr06.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:15:50 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, akm@zeus.theinternet.com.au, (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18-Dec-98 Terry Lambert wrote: > To jump on Jordan's favorite analogy, the car, these guys are > drivers, not mechanics, and they are so far afield from the guts > of how the tool works (other than its applicability as a tool) > that if the Os were a car and it ran out of gas, they would buy a > new car rather than learn where the gas cap was. > This *doesn't* mean that a typical physicist should have to trapse > through a maze of twisty checkboxes in categories recognizable to > computer scientists (and maybe technical lexicographers, but not > physicists) which all look alike, just to install what was, > historically, a base system component. These two statements conflict.. The physicist wouldn't be installing the software (or fitting out the car) the sys admin would.. And IF you do have someone who doesn't 'know where the fuel cap is' installing FreeBSD then they're probably using the novice install, in which case you give them fortran.. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 20:45:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15631 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:45:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15626 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:45:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA86843; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:45:47 -0800 (PST) To: David Kelly cc: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:05:39 CST." <199812180405.WAA00492@n4hhe.ampr.org> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:45:47 -0800 Message-ID: <86839.913956347@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > We're working on this. It presents some unique problems when you > > attempt to interact with "make world", but there is yet hope. > > "make world" would built the packages, then using the currently > installed package database would only update installed packages. What happens when you want to *add* to the set of installed things via make world? Or when you've made local changes to your src tree, made the world, and now a binary update comes in for something that you've updated? Clearly, you don't want your local mods to be spammed and this is what requires a fair bit of work. Believe me, this whole thing is infinitely easy to conceptualize and has been for at least 3 years. That's not where the real work or discussion is. What takes the real work, and is where you need to focus your efforts if you're serious about jumping in on this one with us, is figuring out how to actually IMPLEMENT such a scheme that takes into account all the possible variants. Mike and I have both spent a fair amount of time doing this and can only say that it's a lot harder than it looks once you start really enumerating the possible upgrade scenarios. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 20:46:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15492 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:41:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15485 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:41:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA86816; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:41:53 -0800 (PST) To: David Kelly cc: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:42:39 CST." <199812180142.TAA02468@n4hhe.ampr.org> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:41:53 -0800 Message-ID: <86813.913956113@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It wouldn't be such a bad idea if *everything* was a package (including > the kernel) leaving sysinstall to be a glorified pkg_add. SGI's Irix is > this way. Am not sure Solaris doesn't do similar. It's a very good idea, however, it's also hard. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 20:51:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16385 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:51:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16380 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA86887; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:51:34 -0800 (PST) To: "Christopher R. Bowman" cc: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, David Kelly , FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:10:12 EST." <199812180436.XAA00639@quark.ChrisBowman.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:51:33 -0800 Message-ID: <86884.913956693@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I second this, if the base system was nothing more than a set of packages thi s > might encourage more people to play with different directions for the > sysinstall mechanism. Folks, can we please stop discussing things that were announced as "great new ideas" some 3 years ago and have merely languished for lack of anyone to actually DO THE WORK involved? :-( Thank you. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 21:05:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17502 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:05:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17497 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:05:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA21151; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:43:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA05562; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:42:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:42:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199812180442.VAA05562@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), akm@zeus.theinternet.com.au, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812180436.VAA24884@usr06.primenet.com> References: <199812180146.SAA04784@mt.sri.com> <199812180436.VAA24884@usr06.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If a language that has been integral to a UNIX box's identity *as* > a UNIX box since practically before there was such a thing as UNIX > is going to be seperated into a component, then at least have the > decency to seperate it in a useful way. Fortran has *NEVER* been part of any standard unix release. V7, SystemIII, Berkeley releases, SysV of any variety, or anything. It has *ALWAYS* been an additional add-on piece of unix. Now stop whining, and I'm not going to respond to this again from you so you can quit arguing now. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 21:19:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19253 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:19:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19240 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:19:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4042.ime.net [209.90.195.52]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id AAA16722 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 00:19:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981218001152.009ae100@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 00:17:31 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Mainboard Monitor Probes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Maybe someone has brought this up before, Didn't really know how to go about searching for it on the FreeBSD search page. My Supermicro P6SBA Mainboard (like many Pentium II boards) has 11 hardware monitors installed. Aparantely these are linked to the BIOS, and the Super Doctor software for Win* directly communicates with it to give realtime voltages and temperatures. The question is, is there currently any way to access these levels under FreeBSD? This would be pretty nice information to throw into some sort of an administration CGI or status CGI. Maybe I've just been hitting the caffiene too hard... naah. If there is actually one or it's been brought up, I apologize in advance. Was not quite sure if "Cool Mainboard Temperature Thingy" would be a valid search criteria :-) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 17 21:28:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20408 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:28:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from poynting.physics.purdue.edu (poynting.physics.purdue.edu [128.210.146.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20403 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:28:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ajk@poynting.physics.purdue.edu) Received: from poynting.physics.purdue.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by poynting.physics.purdue.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA17684 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 00:28:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ajk@poynting.physics.purdue.edu) Message-Id: <199812180528.AAA17684@poynting.physics.purdue.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: cgetent() with DB files From: "Andrew J. Korty" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <17675.913958897.1@poynting.physics.purdue.edu> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 00:28:17 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm using the login_cap functions to make repeated accesses to the login.conf database. Since I'm walking the password database with getpwent() and calling login_getpwclass() on every entry, it ends up being hundreds of accesses. My program was running pretty slowly. After profiling, I found that the login.conf.db file was being opened for every call to getpwclass(). These numerous, expensive calls to dbopen() were what was slowing the program down. I changed my code so that it would cache the class data, making fewer calls to login_getpwclass(). Since our users belong to only a few different classes, the program now runs at a fraction of the original time. The getpw*() functions seem to open the master.passwd database once and leave it open until endpwent() is called. Why don't the login_cap functions behave similarly? I understand that the current implementation is built on top of cgetent(), but it seems like this underlying interface should be generalized so that DB files can be kept open between calls. Thanks for your help ... Andrew J. Korty, Director http://www.physics.purdue.edu/~ajk/ Physics Computer Network 85 73 1F 04 63 D9 9D 65 Purdue University 65 2E 7A A8 81 8C 45 75 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 08:25:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26825 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:25:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tellab5.tellabs.com (tellab5.tellabs.com [138.111.243.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA26820; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:25:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mikebo@tellabs.com) From: mikebo@tellabs.com Received: from tellabc.tellabs.com by tellab5.tellabs.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0zr2iN-003BRgC; Fri, 18 Dec 98 10:25 CST Received: by tellabc.tellabs.com (4.1/1.9) id AA02478; Fri, 18 Dec 98 10:25:19 CST Message-Id: <9812181625.AA02478@tellabc.tellabs.com> Subject: NFS v3 on FBSD client/Sun server? To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:25:18 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings - >From the FreeBSD mount_nfs man page: # BUGS # .... For clients mounting servers # that are not on the same LAN cable or that tend to be overloaded, TCP # transport is strongly recommended, but unfortunately this is restricted # to mostly 4.4BSD servers. # This implies that NFS version 3, using TCP transport, only works between 4.4BSD servers and clients. Indeed, when I mount an NFS partition from a FBSD 2.2.8 server onto a Solaris 2.6 client, it works as expected. "netstat -a" shows a TCP connection in place to service the mount, and tcpdump shows TCP traffic between server/client. However, when I mount an NFS partition from an Solaris 2.6 server onto a FBSD 2.2.8 client, only UDP is ever used. I'm not sure of the reasons why this is so. Perhaps it's buried somewhere. Nevertheless, if it's documented, I'd like to read about it. Has anyone directly addressed this issue anywhere? Many thanks for any pointers! Regards, - Mike -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Borowiec -- mikebo@tellabs.com -- Tellabs Operations, Inc. Systems Analyst, Engineering Software Tools 4951 Indiana Ave., MS 63 630-512-8019 FAX: 630-512-7099 Lisle, IL 60532 USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 10:19:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08872 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:19:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08860 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:19:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10580; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:18:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd010453; Fri Dec 18 11:18:41 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA20653; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:18:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812181818.LAA20653@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) To: doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:18:22 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bs_13943_34262@adimus.de, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, akm@zeus.theinternet.com.au, nate@mt.sri.com In-Reply-To: from "Daniel O'Connor" at Dec 18, 98 03:15:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > To jump on Jordan's favorite analogy, the car, these guys are > > drivers, not mechanics, and they are so far afield from the guts > > of how the tool works (other than its applicability as a tool) > > that if the Os were a car and it ran out of gas, they would buy a > > new car rather than learn where the gas cap was. > > > > This *doesn't* mean that a typical physicist should have to trapse > > through a maze of twisty checkboxes in categories recognizable to > > computer scientists (and maybe technical lexicographers, but not > > physicists) which all look alike, just to install what was, > > historically, a base system component. > > These two statements conflict.. > The physicist wouldn't be installing the software (or fitting out the > car) the sys admin would.. Desktop computers do not have system admins, they have the person whose desk they are on. > And IF you do have someone who doesn't 'know where the fuel cap is' > installing FreeBSD then they're probably using the novice install, > in which case you give them fortran.. I have no problem with that, so long as it actually happens that a "novice" (or, a better name, "express") install does this. My problem with seperating things into components is that FreeBSD, while better than Linux at layered software (well, except for the inability to start and stop layered software at system startup and shutdown like Linux can, of course), it's not good enough to make it transparent. Wearing my CS hat instead of my Physics hat or Mathematics hat, I have to say that the thing I found most annoying about the Sun compiler being unbundled was not that they were charging for the thing (Universities tend to have site licenses), but that it was harder than it should be to get the thing installed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 10:27:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09938 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:27:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09932 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:27:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22073; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:26:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd021882; Fri Dec 18 11:26:41 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA21025; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:26:11 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812181826.LAA21025@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:26:11 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <86839.913956347@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 17, 98 08:45:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What happens when you want to *add* to the set of installed things > via make world? You make them, then you install them, in two steps. > Or when you've made local changes to your src tree, made the > world, and now a binary update comes in for something that > you've updated? Local versioning. Ideally, FreeBSD source would come into your local tree on a vendor branch. That would allow people without commit priviledges to be able to apply source code control to their local modifications, in the contexts in which it is used. > Clearly, you don't want your local mods to be spammed and this > is what requires a fair bit of work. Define two axes of major version number, and only allow automatic update along one axis. FreeBSD controls one axis, and local user changes go on the other. > Believe me, this whole thing is infinitely easy to conceptualize and > has been for at least 3 years. That's not where the real work or > discussion is. What takes the real work, and is where you need to > focus your efforts if you're serious about jumping in on this one with > us, is figuring out how to actually IMPLEMENT such a scheme that takes > into account all the possible variants. Mike and I have both spent a > fair amount of time doing this and can only say that it's a lot harder > than it looks once you start really enumerating the possible upgrade > scenarios. Actually, it's pretty easy. Do Exactly What SCO Does With Their Packages(tm). SCO has been able to upgrade system components on a file by file basis since the mid 1980's Xenix heydays. It's no sin to plagarize documented architecture from someone else, especially when it resolves your problems at the same time. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 10:27:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09995 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:27:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09986 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:27:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13532; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd013483; Fri Dec 18 11:27:10 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA21088; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:27:04 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812181827.LAA21088@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:27:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: crb@ChrisBowman.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <86884.913956693@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 17, 98 08:51:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I second this, if the base system was nothing more than a set of > > packages this might encourage more people to play with different > > directions for the sysinstall mechanism. > > Folks, can we please stop discussing things that were announced as > "great new ideas" some 3 years ago and have merely languished for lack > of anyone to actually DO THE WORK involved? :-( Are you willing to take a copy of something from Solaris or SCO? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 10:31:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10491 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:31:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10484 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:31:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA63485; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:30:43 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: crb@ChrisBowman.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:27:04 GMT." <199812181827.LAA21088@usr01.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:30:42 -0800 Message-ID: <63474.914005842@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Are you willing to take a copy of something from Solaris or SCO? I'm willing to accept and evaluate anything that Sun or SCO wishes to donate. I'm not willing to just copy their bits off a tape, or someone's bit-for-bit clone of those bits, and start using them without permission. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 10:29:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10123 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:29:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10118 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:29:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA63453; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:29:33 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:26:11 GMT." <199812181826.LAA21025@usr01.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:29:33 -0800 Message-ID: <63449.914005773@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Actually, it's pretty easy. When you reduce all the variables and external factors to the point of absurdity, as you just did, yes; I suppose it is. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 13:00:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00870 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:00:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00863 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:00:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00602; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd000469; Fri Dec 18 13:59:56 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA09671; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:59:45 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812182059.NAA09671@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:59:45 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, crb@ChrisBowman.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <63474.914005842@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 18, 98 10:30:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Are you willing to take a copy of something from Solaris or SCO? > > I'm willing to accept and evaluate anything that Sun or SCO wishes to > donate. I'm not willing to just copy their bits off a tape, or > someone's bit-for-bit clone of those bits, and start using them > without permission. What about someone's copy of their pacakge flat file formats, with clone (clean room from published documentation) versions of their package manipulation commands? I'm not talking about stealing their shell scripts, only using the same structural representation for data that they have historically proven works for solving this problem. It'd be a shame if the only past we could learn from was our own... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 14:11:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08375 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:11:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08368 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13818; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:11:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd013784; Fri Dec 18 15:11:09 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA12736; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:11:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812182211.PAA12736@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: tcp bug on reeBSD To: guido@gvr.org (Guido van Rooij) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:11:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dg@root.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981216203558.A7912@gvr.org> from "Guido van Rooij" at Dec 16, 98 08:35:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Ah..how stupid ;-() I indeed mixed up the server/client here. > > I;ll look later today exactly what my application (being mirror) wanted > > to send to the other side because that should not have happened at all. > > I checked why my mirror sent these 6 bytes. What happened was that > wcarchive had reached its maximum number of anonymous ftp users and > after howing the banner just closed the control connection. Before > my system got the FIN it tried to send a 'QUIT\r\n' which caused > the RST from wcarchive. FWIW, qpopper has a similar problem. If you use an APOP command to authenticate, and it has problems locking the database, it "-ERR"'s the APOP, but then immediately "+OK"'s a disconnect, even if you didn't ask for it. The correct behaviour (according to the RFC, but who's counting?) is to "-ERR" and allow the user to attempt a "USER/PASS" authentication instead (or "QUIT", if they are afraid of sending their password in the clear). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 14:29:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10717 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:29:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10712 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:29:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03750; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:29:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd003691; Fri Dec 18 15:29:02 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA13686; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:28:56 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812182228.PAA13686@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: tcp bug on reeBSD To: guido@gvr.org (Guido van Rooij) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:28:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981216140244.A5966@gvr.org> from "Guido van Rooij" at Dec 16, 98 02:02:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think wcarchive is not behaving okay by sending the RST. Wcarchive is > in the FIN-WAIT-1 or FIN-WAIT-2 state and from what I see in the rfc, > wcarchive may only send an RST if: > 3. If the connection is in a synchronized state (ESTABLISHED, > FIN-WAIT-1, FIN-WAIT-2, CLOSE-WAIT, CLOSING, LAST-ACK, TIME-WAIT), > any unacceptable segment (out of window sequence number or > unacceptible acknowledgment number) must elicit only an empty > acknowledgment segment containing the current send-sequence number > and an acknowledgment indicating the next sequence number expected > to be received, and the connection remains in the same state. > > But the RST did not ack anything. But besides, the segment > (3641922000:3641922006) is not an unacceptable segment accoriding > to what thr RFC says. A half-close is a perfectly valid mechanism > and my host is allowed to send additional segments to wcarchive. > However, from looking at the RFC I can not discover how wcarchive > should act. I think it should just ack 3641922000 again and have > my host discover that the other end closed the connection. > > What do you guys think? If this is from a Windows client, there is a well known client bug that no one but Paul Vixie and Microsoft do anything about. Basically, if you do a stream content command based shutdown of the connection, then the server shuts down the connection to the client. If the client does nto call shutdown(2), or is an OS (like Windows) where there is no esource tracking implied shutdown(2) of socket descriptors, and the client destroys the socket without a shutdown, then the server hangs in FIN-WAIT-2 forever. If the server is a FreeBSD box or a Solaris box or a Linux box that has been kludges, then it keeps a FIN-WAIT-2 around for however long the kernel FIN-WAIT-2 timeout is set for (in violation of the RFC 793 requirements for connection drain, we have a timeout). Basically, this is a result in a bug in the TCP/IP protocol design, where a single packet from the server is expected to elicit two response packets from the client. [ Any protocol that expects two reponses for one request is inherently broken. ] If the server is an NT box or an NT compatible box, here's what happens instead: 1) If the CTL/ACK is not seen in 2 MSL, the connection leaves FIN-WAIT-2, sends the shutdown notification again, and reenters FIN-WAIT-1. 2) If the ACK comes back, then it reenters the FIN-WAIT-2, which basically means that it is resoliciting a "lost" CTL/ACK from the client (and the client knows this, since it sent the ACK). 3) If the client has destroyed the connection, then the FIN-WAIT-1 solicitation is not ACK'ed by the client; instead, the client RST's the connection (since it has no record of a connection shutdown in progress). 4) If the server gets an RST, it acts as if, on entering the FIN-WAIT-2 state, that a CTL,ACK had been sent by the client, completing the close normally. This behaviour should be implemented in FreeBSD as a sysctl; you could call it "nt_bug_compatabile", but it's probably more correct to call it "patch_fin_wait_2_bug". A side effect of this is that you may, with a slow but correct client, get a lot of "CTL,ACK->"/"<-ACK" traffic until the client finally drains. More likely, however, since most clients are Windows boxes, you will get much earlier recovery of server resources. With this enabled, you can get rid of the long timeout kludge, as well. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 14:56:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14673 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:56:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA14655 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <61172(5)>; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:56:16 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177534>; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:56:10 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcp bug on reeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Dec 98 14:28:56 PST." <199812182228.PAA13686@usr09.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:56:02 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <98Dec18.145610pst.177534@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199812182228.PAA13686@usr09.primenet.com> you write: >Basically, this is a result in a bug in the TCP/IP protocol >design, where a single packet from the server is expected to >elicit two response packets from the client. With delayed ACK's, the sequence is generally server: FIN client: FIN/ACK server: ACK If you get unlucky with delayed ACK's or your client is extremely slow, you might get server: FIN client: ACK client: FIN server: ACK but from TCP's point of view, the client's FIN isn't related to the server's FIN; it's in response to the client application's request to close the connection. >This behaviour should be implemented in FreeBSD as a sysctl; you >could call it "nt_bug_compatabile", but it's probably more correct >to call it "patch_fin_wait_2_bug". You're suggesting that the timeout, instead of removing the state, pretend that the FIN wasn't acknowledged and switch to FIN_WAIT_1 and retransmit the "unacknowledged" FIN? >With this enabled, you can get rid of the long timeout kludge, as >well. Well, you just do something different when the timeout occurs, n'est-ce pas? Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 15:09:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16429 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:09:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tornado.cisco.com (tornado.cisco.com [171.69.104.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16424 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:09:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lching@cisco.com) Received: from lching-pc.cisco.com (lching-pc.cisco.com [171.69.206.55]) by tornado.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA25004; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:09:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by lching-pc.cisco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02965; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:09:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lching@cisco.com) Message-ID: <367AE0AE.4820BC12@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:09:34 -0500 From: Larry Ching X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: lching@cisco.com Subject: pthreads question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings. I am having a problem porting an application that runs on FreeBSD 2.2.6 and doesn't on FreeBSD 3.0. The problem seems to be caused by differences in the pthreads implemention on the two systems. Trying to state the problem in its simplest terms, the application spawns a thread that continually tries to read data from a device. The thread, of course, blocks on the read() call if no data is available from the device. To terminate the read thread, another thread issues a pthread_kill() call to the read thread, which in 2.2.6 would cause the read() to return -1 with an errno of EINTR. This would cause the thread to terminate itself. However, under 3.0 the read does not return and the reader thread remains blocked. I have scanned through the pthread code under 3.0 and the difference seems to lie in the pthread_kill() code in uthread_kill.c. Specifically, the signal specified in pthread_kill() is just added to the signal list if the thread is in any other state except PS_SIGSUSPEND or PS_SIGWAIT. I believe that the reader thread is in PS_FDR_WAIT state at this point and thus nothing happens. What is the expected behaviour here? Is there a better way to do this? Thanks for any and all help. Larry Ching Cisco Systems To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 16:38:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28952 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:38:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateway.toti.est.is (toti.est.is [194.144.208.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28946 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:38:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thivars@est.is) Received: from asus (asus.toti.est.is [192.168.255.2]) by gateway.toti.est.is (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA97381; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:38:00 GMT (envelope-from thivars@est.is) Message-ID: <367AF58C.40D8BA41@est.is> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:38:36 +0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DE=F3r=F0ur=20=CDvarsson?=" Reply-To: thivars@est.is X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Locale related files and environment variables X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <36796002.56339D47@est.is> <36797C5A.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id QAA28948 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > > Þórður Ívarsson wrote: > > > > Hi there, > > > > I have several LOCALE related questions. > > > > Some problems started when I moved from FBSD2.2.7 to FBSD3.0 few weeks > > ago and I have not got rid of those problems. > > > > Before I used "tcsh" as the main shell because it supported our use of > > 8bit characters, but sh and csh did not, neither did bash. > > > > Today I can not use tcsh now, but sh and csh do work. > > > > I have environment "LANG=is.IS.ISO-8859-1" > > > > What is environment variable "LC_TYPE" ? > > > > What is in the "/usr/share/locale" directory? > > > > What is in the "/usr/share/nls" directory? > > > > What is in the "/usr/share/zoneinfo" directory? > > > > >From the person that got the Accented keyboard to the syscons! > > Þórður Ívarsson > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > I looked at your accent code in the syscons, but I couldn't > work out how to use it..... > > can you supply a tutorial? Yes, here is what you have to do to make Icelandic keyboard working: file rc.conf needs to contain font8x16="iso-8x16" font8x14="iso-8x14" font8x8="iso-8x8" keymap="icelandic.iso.acc" lang environment set to is_IS.ISO_8859-1 (shtt.... thanks Julian, I looked at the environ vars and I somhow mistyped in login.conf, tcsh is better now) Well with that installation you should be able to get some strange chars when you hit / ; { - and Ža Že and so on. I am going to write how-to for icelandic, and it might end up with writing genereal how-to for accented keyboard. Þórður Ívarsson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 18:31:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA09857 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:31:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA09852 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:31:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id NAA13532; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 13:01:04 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA28589; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 13:01:03 +1030 Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 13:01:03 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199812181818.LAA20653@usr01.primenet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > This *doesn't* mean that a typical physicist should have to trapse > > > through a maze of twisty checkboxes in categories recognizable to > > > computer scientists (and maybe technical lexicographers, but not > > > physicists) which all look alike, just to install what was, > > > historically, a base system component. > > > > These two statements conflict.. > > The physicist wouldn't be installing the software (or fitting out the > > car) the sys admin would.. > > Desktop computers do not have system admins, they have the person > whose desk they are on. Datapoint from a physicist: here at Adelaide the people who have linux boxes, or alphas, or sparcs, on their desks, don't have root access (because for the most part they're not mechanics). All software installation is done by a sysadmin.. Kris ----- (ASP) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) announced today that the release of its productivity suite, Office 2000, will be delayed until the first quarter of 1901. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 18:58:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12784 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:58:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from findmail.com (m6.findmail.com [209.185.96.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA12778 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:58:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dnelson@redwoodsoft.com) Received: (qmail 1593 invoked by uid 505); 19 Dec 1998 02:58:37 -0000 Date: 19 Dec 1998 02:58:37 -0000 Message-ID: <19981219025837.1592.qmail@findmail.com> Received: from 206.16.70.101 (via http) from to list "freebsd-hackers" From: "Dru Nelson" Subject: Re: Tunneling GRE through NAT? In-Reply-To: To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I wrote a patch to natd to allow it pass GRE/ ie PPTP. Check with the maintainers of natd on the latest version. > I'm writing here because of what I found via the mailing list search at > www.freebsd.org: > > -- > On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, M.C Wong wrote: > > > I wonder if there is any implementation, user-land or kernel, of > > tunneling protocol based on GRE (rfc1701, rfc1702) ? > > I remember some rumblings in -hackers about someone implementing a generic > tunnelling system. I think a GRE tunnel was part of the inspiration for > the project. Check the mail archives for info. > > Doug White | University of Oregon > Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant > http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major > -- > > Did this go anywhere? > > I have a number of Windows users who'd like to be able to access some > WindowsNT based services using Microsoft's PPTP. > > As it stands, the WindowsNT machine is behind a FreeBSD machine running > natd which is in turn behind a Cisco which acts as a firewall. > > I can pass PPTP packets (port 1723) through to the FreeBSD machine and I > can pass the GRE packets associated with PPTP through to the FreeBSD > machine. > > I can then tunnel the PPTP packets through natd to the NT box, but I > haven't found any way to tunnel GRE through the NAT. > > Did this discussion of tunneling GRE through NAT ever go anywhere? Has > anyone written any software that does this? Is there any reason why this > would not be possible? (i.e., any reason why I shouldn't just pick up my > network programming book and write it myself?) > > Any help is much appreciated. > > > James Snow > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > * We live in the short term | sno at teardrop dot org * > * and hope for the best. | I am Geek. Hear me ^G * > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----- See the original message at http://www.egroups.com/list/freebsd-hackers/?start=31791 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 19:12:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13875 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:12:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from findmail.com (m9.findmail.com [209.185.96.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA13870 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:12:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dnelson@redwoodsoft.com) Received: (qmail 10032 invoked by uid 505); 19 Dec 1998 03:12:19 -0000 Date: 19 Dec 1998 03:12:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19981219031219.10031.qmail@findmail.com> Received: from 206.16.70.101 (via http) from to list "freebsd-hackers" From: "Dru Nelson" Subject: Re: Source address In-Reply-To: <87r9u0tkgr.fsf@pens.ion.sci.fi> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think this is a great idea. > So. If there is no current solution to this problem, I'm > thinking of doing the neccesary modifications to the kernel. I'm not a > kernel hacker but this problem does'nt seem too hard to solve. > > So I'd like to get your oppinnions. I'm thinking of using the > sysctl interface to the kernel. Introduce a new variable and if this > variable is set outgoing packets are given source address described in > this variable. This would be done just before the source address is > set to the outgoing interface if it's not already set. (in ip_output.c) > > I really have no real clue if this is the right way to go it's > just my first idea and I'd like to hear whay you think about it. Thanks. > > > Jamie Bowden writes: > > > On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Richard Smith wrote: > > > > > Antti Kaipila wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a interesting problem here. I have FreeBSD accting as a router > > > > between our LAN and Internet. I have a ET5025 card as interface eth0 and > > > > Intel EtherExpress as interface fxp0. > > > > > > > > eth0 has address 10.156.214.2 and remote ends address is 10.156.214.1. > > > > fxp0 has address 195.74.8.138 > > > > > > > > So, now when I try to connect from this machine acting as router to > > > > anywhere on the internet my source address get set to > > > > 10.156.214.2. Which is not nice, because all routers are dropping my > > > > packets thinking they should'nt be routed (that's the right thing to > > > > do ofcourse). > > > > > > > > Is there any way around this? > > > > > > You need to run natd on your FBSD router, so that all packets 'appear' > > > to > > > originate from *it* (195.74.8.138). See man natd. > > > > Not quite. His ISP is using 1918 networks between routers. > > > > I do this as well. With Cisco you can set the primary IP of the router, > > and all traffic appears to come from that IP, no matter which interface it > > goes through. If there is a way to have FreeBSD always report the > > connection as coming from it's usable IP, all that has to be done is to do > > it, but I don't know if FreeBSD can do that. > > > > Jamie Bowden > > > > -- > > Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net > > > > If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. > > -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > -- > Antti Kaipila > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----- See the original message at http://www.egroups.com/list/freebsd-hackers/?start=31780 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 20:17:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18579 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:17:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18574 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:17:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id XAA10236; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:17:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:17:25 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199812190417.XAA10236@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, lching@cisco.com Subject: Re: pthreads question Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am having a problem porting an application that runs on FreeBSD > 2.2.6 and doesn't on FreeBSD 3.0. The problem seems to be caused > by differences in the pthreads implemention on the two systems. > > Trying to state the problem in its simplest terms, the application > spawns a thread that continually tries to read data from a device. > The thread, of course, blocks on the read() call if no data is > available from the device. To terminate the read thread, another > thread issues a pthread_kill() call to the read thread, which in > 2.2.6 would cause the read() to return -1 with an errno of EINTR. > This would cause the thread to terminate itself. However, under > 3.0 the read does not return and the reader thread remains blocked. Each thread has it's own signal mask. Does the thread that you're trying to interrupt have the signal blocked? > I have scanned through the pthread code under 3.0 and the difference > seems to lie in the pthread_kill() code in uthread_kill.c. > Specifically, the signal specified in pthread_kill() is just added > to the signal list if the thread is in any other state except > PS_SIGSUSPEND or PS_SIGWAIT. I believe that the reader thread is > in PS_FDR_WAIT state at this point and thus nothing happens. A quick glance of the code shows that this is what happens only if the signal is blocked in the thread. If the signal is unblocked, then the thread should return with EINTR. Use sigprocmask(2) to unblock the signal in the thread that you want to interrupt. > What is the expected behaviour here? Is there a better way to do > this? > > Thanks for any and all help. > > Larry Ching > Cisco Systems Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 18 20:49:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22255 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:49:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22250 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:49:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA64616; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:48:29 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: crb@ChrisBowman.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:59:45 GMT." <199812182059.NAA09671@usr09.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:48:29 -0800 Message-ID: <64612.914042909@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What about someone's copy of their pacakge flat file formats, with > clone (clean room from published documentation) versions of their > package manipulation commands? Well, nobody's offered such a thing to date, but I'd also have to say this was a little bit late considering as I've already spent about $10K on a contractor for the new package system. It's sort of waiting in the wings for our compiler technology to catch up since the contractor in question is also an avid C++ programmer and past the point where gcc 2.7.2.1 is able to support his efforts (2.7.2's C++ support is broken in a variety of well-known ways). - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 05:30:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09035 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 05:30:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA09030 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 05:30:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from sunoco (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id IAA01295 Sat, 19 Dec 1998 08:30:13 -0500 (EST) From: Kaleb Keithley Received: by sunoco (SMI-8.6/Spike-2.1) id IAA26067; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 08:30:13 -0500 Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 08:30:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199812191330.IAA26067@sunoco> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: inetd in realloc(): warning: junk pointer, too low to make sense. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My 3.0-RELEASE system, up some 17 days, is now doing this when I telnet (or ping, or anything else that uses inetd) to it. (I don't know how long it's been like this, perhaps it explains why my outgoing email seem to be being dropped on the floor. Do I remember correctly that there was some fix for this made shortly before 3.0-RELEASE? Did the fix not make it into 3.0-RELEASE? Before I go snag the LaG inetd sources, will that fix the problem? Thanks, -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 06:16:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11484 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 06:16:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11479 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 06:16:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA05789; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:15:53 +0200 (EET) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:15:53 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Terry Lambert , dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) In-Reply-To: <64612.914042909@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > What about someone's copy of their pacakge flat file formats, with > > clone (clean room from published documentation) versions of their > > package manipulation commands? > > Well, nobody's offered such a thing to date, but I'd also have to say > this was a little bit late considering as I've already spent about > $10K on a contractor for the new package system. It's sort of waiting > in the wings for our compiler technology to catch up since the > contractor in question is also an avid C++ programmer and past the > point where gcc 2.7.2.1 is able to support his efforts (2.7.2's C++ > support is broken in a variety of well-known ways). > In other words: a) to get the new package system, we need good C/C++ compiler b) to get good C/C++ compiler, we need TenDRA c) to be able to use TenDRA, we need quite some changes to the system ? Or is there a shortcut? > - Jordan Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 06:23:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA12430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 06:23:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA12402 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 06:23:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA09587; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 06:22:01 -0800 (PST) To: Narvi cc: Terry Lambert , dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:15:53 +0200." Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 06:21:58 -0800 Message-ID: <9576.914077318@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > a) to get the new package system, we need good C/C++ compiler yes. > b) to get good C/C++ compiler, we need TenDRA Wrong. 2.8.1 or egcs 1.1.1 have all been proven by the author to do the job just fine, either choice being sufficient for our purposes. The only question is whether to take gcc 2.8.1 and risk more immediate obsolescence or take egcs and risk unending war over the threads question. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 07:09:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA16378 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:09:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA16373 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:09:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (kulshedra [10.0.1.99]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00681; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:08:21 +0200 Message-ID: <367BDDA7.52011CC7@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 19:08:55 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Narvi , Terry Lambert , dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) References: <9576.914077318@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > a) to get the new package system, we need good C/C++ compiler > > yes. > > > b) to get good C/C++ compiler, we need TenDRA It yet not able to compile STL. > > Wrong. 2.8.1 or egcs 1.1.1 have all been proven by the author to do > the job just fine, either choice being sufficient for our purposes. > The only question is whether to take gcc 2.8.1 and risk more immediate > obsolescence or take egcs and risk unending war over the threads > question. > > - Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 07:23:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17125 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:23:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17120 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:23:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA07138; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:22:32 +0200 (EET) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:22:32 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Terry Lambert , dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) In-Reply-To: <9576.914077318@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > a) to get the new package system, we need good C/C++ compiler > > yes. > > > b) to get good C/C++ compiler, we need TenDRA > > Wrong. 2.8.1 or egcs 1.1.1 have all been proven by the author to do So there is a shortcut. > the job just fine, either choice being sufficient for our purposes. > The only question is whether to take gcc 2.8.1 and risk more immediate > obsolescence or take egcs and risk unending war over the threads > question. > Well, if the question behind the threads issue is real, we might be in for some real problems. Also, for working exceptions with egcs, binutuils 2.9 is needed (could be we already have that, I haven't checked). There has been confusion with EH and egcs from about day one. Then there are some changes problems with asm. Major template bogossities abound. Can we build a reliably working system with egcs? Has anyone actually tried it? > - Jordan > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 09:51:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29308 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:51:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (spain-43.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29302 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:51:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07255; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:54:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:54:21 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Narvi cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Terry Lambert , dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, Narvi wrote: [...] > Well, if the question behind the threads issue is real, we might be in for > some real problems. > > Also, for working exceptions with egcs, binutuils 2.9 is needed (could be > we already have that, I haven't checked). There has been confusion with EH > and egcs from about day one. redwood203:~$as --version GNU assembler 2.9.1 Copyright 1997 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This program is free software; you may redistribute it under the terms of the GNU General Public License. This program has absolutely no warranty. This assembler was configured for a target of `i386-unknown-freebsdelf'. redwood203:~$as -aout --version *unknown*: Assembler messages: *unknown*:0: Warning: /usr/libexec/aout/as: I don't understand '-' flag. GNU assembler version 1.92.3, FreeBSD $Revision: 1.6 $ I personally haven't been able to get exceptions to work at all unless I use setjmp/jongjmp exceptions. This is with egcs configured for a freebsdelf target. This is no problem, except this isn't threadsafe. > Then there are some changes problems with asm. > > Major template bogossities abound. Hmm? > Can we build a reliably working system with egcs? Has anyone actually > tried it? I don't know if the actual egcs releases post 1.1 do this, but the snapshot of egcs I'm using treats const -> non const w/out a cast and vice versa as a fatal error, which could prove quite fun. - alex | "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern | | technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." | | Powered by FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 10:49:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04648 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:49:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rs4s1.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (rs4s1.datacenter.cha.cantv.net [200.44.32.54] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04641 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:49:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lem@cantv.net) Received: from lg (tc3r9-133.ras.cha.cantv.net [200.44.9.133]) by rs4s1.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/1.0) with SMTP id OAA13881; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:49:14 -0400 (VET) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981219144907.007a7120@pop.cantv.net> X-Sender: lem@pop.cantv.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:49:07 -0400 To: "Dru Nelson" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Luis =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mu=F1oz?= Subject: Re: Source address In-Reply-To: <19981219031219.10031.qmail@findmail.com> References: <87r9u0tkgr.fsf@pens.ion.sci.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The source IP address is (or *should*) be set to the primary address of the interface through which the packet is sent. I have quite a few FreeBSD boxes with multiple NICs and this is exactly what we see here, though I still don't have any of them with multiple IP addresses on each interface. Regards. -lem At 03:12 AM 19/12/98 -0000, Dru Nelson wrote: > > >I think this is a great idea. > >> So. If there is no current solution to this problem, I'm >> thinking of doing the neccesary modifications to the kernel. I'm not a >> kernel hacker but this problem does'nt seem too hard to solve. >> >> So I'd like to get your oppinnions. I'm thinking of using the >> sysctl interface to the kernel. Introduce a new variable and if this >> variable is set outgoing packets are given source address described in >> this variable. This would be done just before the source address is >> set to the outgoing interface if it's not already set. (in ip_output.c) >> >> I really have no real clue if this is the right way to go it's >> just my first idea and I'd like to hear whay you think about it. Thanks. >> >> >> Jamie Bowden writes: >> >> > On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Richard Smith wrote: >> > >> > > Antti Kaipila wrote: >> > > > >> > > > I have a interesting problem here. I have FreeBSD accting as a router >> > > > between our LAN and Internet. I have a ET5025 card as interface eth0 and >> > > > Intel EtherExpress as interface fxp0. >> > > > >> > > > eth0 has address 10.156.214.2 and remote ends address is 10.156.214.1. >> > > > fxp0 has address 195.74.8.138 >> > > > >> > > > So, now when I try to connect from this machine acting as router to >> > > > anywhere on the internet my source address get set to >> > > > 10.156.214.2. Which is not nice, because all routers are dropping my >> > > > packets thinking they should'nt be routed (that's the right thing to >> > > > do ofcourse). >> > > > >> > > > Is there any way around this? >> > > >> > > You need to run natd on your FBSD router, so that all packets 'appear' >> > > to >> > > originate from *it* (195.74.8.138). See man natd. >> > >> > Not quite. His ISP is using 1918 networks between routers. >> > >> > I do this as well. With Cisco you can set the primary IP of the router, >> > and all traffic appears to come from that IP, no matter which interface it >> > goes through. If there is a way to have FreeBSD always report the >> > connection as coming from it's usable IP, all that has to be done is to do >> > it, but I don't know if FreeBSD can do that. >> > >> > Jamie Bowden >> > >> > -- >> > Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net >> > >> > If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. >> > -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) >> > >> > >> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message >> > >> >> -- >> Antti Kaipila >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message >> >> > > > >----- >See the original message at http://www.egroups.com/list/freebsd-hackers/?start=31780 > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 11:46:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10436 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:46:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10431 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:46:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28483; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:46:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA10759; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:46:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:46:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812191946.LAA10759@vashon.polstra.com> To: garbanzo@hooked.net Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article , Alex Zepeda wrote: > > I personally haven't been able to get exceptions to work at all unless I > use setjmp/jongjmp exceptions. This is with egcs configured for a > freebsdelf target. I just discovered why that is. The port needs to build and install egcs's versions of "crtbegin{,S}.o" and "crtend{,S}.o". Then the exceptions seem to work fine. To hack it by hand, find the linux part of the "gcc/configure" script, and locate the line extra_parts="...." Add a copy of that line to the freebsdelf section. I'll put together a precise fix for the port soon. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 12:13:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12622 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:13:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-18.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12614 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:13:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00728; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:15:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:15:54 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: John Polstra cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) In-Reply-To: <199812191946.LAA10759@vashon.polstra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, John Polstra wrote: > > I personally haven't been able to get exceptions to work at all unless I > > use setjmp/jongjmp exceptions. This is with egcs configured for a > > freebsdelf target. > > I just discovered why that is. The port needs to build and install > egcs's versions of "crtbegin{,S}.o" and "crtend{,S}.o". Then the > exceptions seem to work fine. To hack it by hand, find the linux > part of the "gcc/configure" script, and locate the line > > extra_parts="...." > > Add a copy of that line to the freebsdelf section. > > I'll put together a precise fix for the port soon. Oh goodie! Do these work with the old gcc? If so why not just import them into the FreeBSD tree? - alex | "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern | | technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." | | Powered by FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 12:20:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13280 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:20:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.fircrest.net (mg-20664222-16.ricochet.net [206.64.222.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13263 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:20:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.fircrest.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id MAA12496; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:20:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981219122025.22295@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:20:25 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: _rtld_bind_start Segfault Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=ZO5zC0uMSeAMfFXi X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ZO5zC0uMSeAMfFXi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii has anyone else encountered stange segfaults when calling libc functions late in yor program? I have run across a couple programs that would segfault upon calling a libc function, but if you "prebound" it in your program by calling that function earlier, you don't run into any problems... also, if you have main return instead of calling exit, the program will segfault at address 0x13.... attached is the file that I first saw this problem... this file isn't my code, but some code that I want sent to help find an unrelated problem in... I am running on 3.0-R with a partially updated kernel (mainly cam updated)... and I just tested this on bento.freebsd.org and it behaves the same... (blah.c in /tmp on bento) there are two ifdefs.. if you compile the program without any special defines, it segfaults when it hits the first printf... if you define BIND_PRINTF, it will run, but segfault upon the return... if you define CALL_EXIT, it will exit normally, but there is no reason that you should have to specially bind and call exit from a program... any ideas? -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 541 684 8449 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for --ZO5zC0uMSeAMfFXi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="blah.c" #include #define MAX 20 int main() { int A[MAX][MAX]; int B[MAX][MAX]; int C[MAX][MAX]; /* result AB */ int i, j, k; /* loop vars */ int temp; /* holds C(i,j) while computing */ int counter1 = 0; /* number of times first branch executed */ int counter2 = 0; /* number of times second branch executed */ #ifdef BIND_PRINTF printf(""); #endif for (j = 0; j < MAX; j++) { for (i = 0; i < MAX; i++); { A[i][j] = i - j; B[i][j] = i + j; } } temp = 0; for (j = 0; j < MAX; j++) { for (i = 0; i < MAX; i++) { for (k = 0; k < MAX; k++) { temp += A[i][k]*B[k][j]; } C[i][j] = temp; printf("temp: %d\n",temp); if (temp > 0) { temp = -1; counter1++; } if (temp < 0) { temp = 0; counter2++; } } } printf("New value was > 0 %d times\n",counter1); printf("After if, value was < 0 %d times\n",counter2); #ifdef CALL_EXIT exit(0); #endif return 0; } --ZO5zC0uMSeAMfFXi-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 12:27:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13780 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:27:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13775 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:26:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA06890 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:26:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:26:53 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 To: hackers Subject: questions/problems with vm_fault() in Stable Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have some questions about the routine vm_fault() in the file vm_fault.c: (1) The condition (!change_wiring || wired) is always TRUE! Three possible values of change_wiring are FALSE (0), VM_FAULT_CHANGE_WIRING (1), and VM_FAULT_USER_WIRE (2). When its value is VM_FAULT_CHANGE_WIRING or VM_FAULT_USER_WIRE, the wired count of the map entry has already been incremented (see vm_map_user_pageable() and vm_map_pageable()), so vm_map_lookup() will set wired as non-zero. If the argment's value is FALSE, the condition is trivially true. (2) Following the label readrest: in the source code, there are some codes trying to handle read ahead for sequential objects. However, the following statement is wrong: for (tmppindex = first_index - 1; tmppindex >=first_pindex; -- tmppindex) We should probably use firstpindex instead of first_pindex in the comparison (pay attention to the underscore here). However, the for loop will not loop forever, because vm_page_lookup() called within the loop will return NULL anyway. (3) If the pager fails to bring in a page for the very first object in the shadow chain, the page will contain invalid content. If the pager fails to bring in a page for other objects in the shadow chain, the page is freed and invalid. Yet, we still reference to that page (m) later. This means that after the page fault, we could get a page with invalid contents. There is a XXX near the related comment in the source code. (4) The comment in the source code says that the pager can move a page, so we must relookup the page by calling vm_page_lookup(). How could this be the case? Why move the page? (5) The comment in the source code says that we do not COW read-only region on a user wire. "If we do not make this restriction, the bookkeeping would be nearly impossible." Can anyone explain this for me? (6) The comment in the source code says map entries may be pageable. I really doubt this because vm_map_entry_create() always allocates wired down memory for new map entries and enter them into pmap immediately. (7) The comment in the source code says pmap_enter() may cause other faults. I can not see any reason for this to happen. I am just wondering how this important routine in VM system can have these imperfect things (except (4) through (7)). I hope I am wrong. Please help me out with understanding of these points. Any help is appreciated. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 12:55:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16898 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:55:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16892 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:55:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA28676; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:55:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA10896; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:55:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:55:01 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Alex Zepeda Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19-Dec-98 Alex Zepeda wrote: > On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, John Polstra wrote: > >> I just discovered why that is. The port needs to build and install >> egcs's versions of "crtbegin{,S}.o" and "crtend{,S}.o". Then the >> exceptions seem to work fine. To hack it by hand, find the linux >> part of the "gcc/configure" script, and locate the line >> >> extra_parts="...." >> >> Add a copy of that line to the freebsdelf section. >> >> I'll put together a precise fix for the port soon. > > Oh goodie! Do these work with the old gcc? No. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 13:16:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19067 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 13:16:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from helios.dnttm.ru (dnttm-gw.rssi.ru [193.232.0.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19061 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 13:16:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dima@tejblum.dnttm.rssi.ru) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by helios.dnttm.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1/IP-3) with UUCP id AAA27507; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 00:12:07 +0300 Received: from tejblum.dnttm.rssi.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tejblum.dnttm.rssi.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA03759; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 00:15:46 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from dima@tejblum.dnttm.rssi.ru) Message-Id: <199812192115.AAA03759@tejblum.dnttm.rssi.ru> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fortran continued [Re: sysinstall] In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Dec 1998 01:32:17 GMT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 00:15:46 +0300 From: Dmitrij Tejblum Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > Then, if you choose to compile threaded programs, correct operation > of non-threaded programs is not guaranteed (unresovled external > for the threads exception stack) unless you link *all* your code, > threaded or not, against libc_r. > This is probably because config/i386/freebsd.h in your egcs don't define ASM_WEAKEN_LABEL. Mine do, and I don't see this problem. Dima To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 14:29:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26215 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:29:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles151.castles.com [208.214.165.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26210 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:29:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00753; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:26:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812192226.OAA00753@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Narvi , Terry Lambert , dkelly@hiwaay.net, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back to sysinstall (was Re: Fortran in the base system (was Re: sysinstall)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Dec 1998 06:21:58 PST." <9576.914077318@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:26:36 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > a) to get the new package system, we need good C/C++ compiler > > yes. > > > b) to get good C/C++ compiler, we need TenDRA > > Wrong. 2.8.1 or egcs 1.1.1 have all been proven by the author to do > the job just fine, either choice being sufficient for our purposes. It's also worth pointing out that several people have looked at the code that TenDRA produces and made some fairly uncomplimentary noises. We would take a lot of flak over using it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 15:57:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05446 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:57:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05439 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:57:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA22550; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:27:32 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA26492; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:27:32 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981220102731.Q24125@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:27:31 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Kaleb Keithley , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inetd in realloc(): warning: junk pointer, too low to make sense. References: <199812191330.IAA26067@sunoco> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199812191330.IAA26067@sunoco>; from Kaleb Keithley on Sat, Dec 19, 1998 at 08:30:13AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 19 December 1998 at 8:30:13 -0500, Kaleb Keithley wrote: > > My 3.0-RELEASE system, up some 17 days, is now doing this when I telnet > (or ping, or anything else that uses inetd) to it. (I don't know how long > it's been like this, perhaps it explains why my outgoing email seem to > be being dropped on the floor. You can recover from this problem by restarting inetd. > Do I remember correctly that there was some fix for this made shortly > before 3.0-RELEASE? I don't know. A number of ``fixes'' were bandied around, but there was so much discussion that I can't recall if any of them was the final fix. > Did the fix not make it into 3.0-RELEASE? No. > Before I go snag the LaG inetd sources, will that fix the problem? I don't know. But some fixes were committed to -current about 10 days ago which claim to have fixed the problem. Since then I haven't had any problems. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 16:07:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07451 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:07:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.fircrest.net (mg-20664222-16.ricochet.net [206.64.222.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07445 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:07:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.fircrest.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id QAA18400; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:07:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981219160711.16076@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:07:11 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: _rtld_bind_start Segfault References: <19981219122025.22295@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19981219122025.22295@hydrogen.nike.efn.org>; from John-Mark Gurney on Sat, Dec 19, 1998 at 12:20:25PM -0800 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John-Mark Gurney scribbled this message on Dec 19: > for (j = 0; j < MAX; j++) > { for (i = 0; i < MAX; i++); ^ I found the problem.... i was 20 for the next two lines overwriting environ's data, and the printf at the begining was cacheing the results of the getenv calls that were necessary... > { A[i][j] = i - j; > B[i][j] = i + j; > } > } the reason I wrote this message is that I run across another bug in another program that linking the program -static fixed a problem where it's child process would suddenly start to segfault... and the segfault was in strcpy... at one time the address managed to be reported as _rtld_bind_start.... and I know for a FACT that the addresses were correct, as I set a break point at the strcpy, verified that both the destination buffer was an automatic char [512], and the source was a seven character string... I would try to advance to the next line and it would segfault... debuging this program is hard as the bug doesn't show up till 400+megs into the data stream, and I don't have enough disk space currently to store it on disk (I will in a few hours)... and it takes ~45 minutes to read the 400megs from tape... sorry to bother you guys... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 541 684 8449 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 16:51:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12169 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:51:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pacman.redwoodsoft.com (redwoodsoft.com [207.181.199.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA12164 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:51:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dnelson@pacman.redwoodsoft.com) Received: (qmail 1883 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Dec 1998 00:51:15 -0000 Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:51:15 -0800 (PST) From: Dru Nelson To: Luis =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mu=F1oz?= cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Source address In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19981219144907.007a7120@pop.cantv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not unless there is an ip address for the box. What this guy is trying to get is the same functionality of IOS. That is, if there is an ip address for the box, and not a particular interface, then you can reach that box with that IP address. You don't have to know the ip address of any particular interface to reach the box (provided the routes update properly). Dru Nelson Redwood City, California On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, Luis =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mu=F1oz?= wrote: > > The source IP address is (or *should*) be set to the primary address > of the interface through which the packet is sent. I have quite a > few FreeBSD boxes with multiple NICs and this is exactly what we > see here, though I still don't have any of them with multiple IP > addresses on each interface. > > Regards. > > -lem > > At 03:12 AM 19/12/98 -0000, Dru Nelson wrote: > > > > > >I think this is a great idea. > > > >> So. If there is no current solution to this problem, I'm > >> thinking of doing the neccesary modifications to the kernel. I'm not a > >> kernel hacker but this problem does'nt seem too hard to solve. > >> > >> So I'd like to get your oppinnions. I'm thinking of using the > >> sysctl interface to the kernel. Introduce a new variable and if this > >> variable is set outgoing packets are given source address described in > >> this variable. This would be done just before the source address is > >> set to the outgoing interface if it's not already set. (in ip_output.c) > >> > >> I really have no real clue if this is the right way to go it's > >> just my first idea and I'd like to hear whay you think about it. Thanks. > >> > >> > >> Jamie Bowden writes: > >> > >> > On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Richard Smith wrote: > >> > > >> > > Antti Kaipila wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > I have a interesting problem here. I have FreeBSD accting as a router > >> > > > between our LAN and Internet. I have a ET5025 card as interface > eth0 and > >> > > > Intel EtherExpress as interface fxp0. > >> > > > > >> > > > eth0 has address 10.156.214.2 and remote ends address is > 10.156.214.1. > >> > > > fxp0 has address 195.74.8.138 > >> > > > > >> > > > So, now when I try to connect from this machine acting as router to > >> > > > anywhere on the internet my source address get set to > >> > > > 10.156.214.2. Which is not nice, because all routers are dropping my > >> > > > packets thinking they should'nt be routed (that's the right thing to > >> > > > do ofcourse). > >> > > > > >> > > > Is there any way around this? > >> > > > >> > > You need to run natd on your FBSD router, so that all packets 'appear' > >> > > to > >> > > originate from *it* (195.74.8.138). See man natd. > >> > > >> > Not quite. His ISP is using 1918 networks between routers. > >> > > >> > I do this as well. With Cisco you can set the primary IP of the router, > >> > and all traffic appears to come from that IP, no matter which > interface it > >> > goes through. If there is a way to have FreeBSD always report the > >> > connection as coming from it's usable IP, all that has to be done is > to do > >> > it, but I don't know if FreeBSD can do that. > >> > > >> > Jamie Bowden > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net > >> > > >> > If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. > >> > -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) > >> > > >> > > >> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Antti Kaipila > >> > >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > > > > >----- > >See the original message at > http://www.egroups.com/list/freebsd-hackers/?start=31780 > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 17:03:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13500 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13493 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:03:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA80379; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 20:03:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <199812200103.UAA80379@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dru Nelson cc: Luis =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mu=F1oz?= , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Source address References: In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:51:15 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 20:03:22 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Except that in IOS, the "source-interface" commands cause the application in question (snmp trap generator, syslog generator, etc), to bind to a particular interface address on the router, rather than using whatever interface address is associated with the exit interface on the router. It doesn't smash an address in the packet on the way out, and neither should the FreeBSD kernel. There are a lot of applications that care about the end point addresses, and zapping something behind their back is probably going to manifest itself in interesting ways. Perhaps this is phrasing problem. If you were to add a sysctl to bias the operation of the socket code to choose a specified address of an interface, rather than the address of the outbound interface.. but then you have to worry about the interface being up and other details. It might be less surprising overall to simply fix the applications that you care about to bind to a particular interface address rather than having the kernel choose. As a benefit, you'd also solve the "virtual-host" problem too, where an interface has a bunch of alias addresses. louie > Not unless there is an ip address for the box. What this guy > is trying to get is the same functionality of IOS. That is, > if there is an ip address for the box, and not a particular > interface, then you can reach that box with that IP address. > You don't have to know the ip address of any particular interface > to reach the box (provided the routes update properly). > > Dru Nelson > Redwood City, California > > On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, Luis =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mu=F1oz?= wrote: > > > > > The source IP address is (or *should*) be set to the primary address > > of the interface through which the packet is sent. I have quite a > > few FreeBSD boxes with multiple NICs and this is exactly what we > > see here, though I still don't have any of them with multiple IP > > addresses on each interface. > > > > Regards. > > > > -lem > > > > At 03:12 AM 19/12/98 -0000, Dru Nelson wrote: > > > > > > > > >I think this is a great idea. > > > > > >> So. If there is no current solution to this problem, I'm > > >> thinking of doing the neccesary modifications to the kernel. I'm not a > > >> kernel hacker but this problem does'nt seem too hard to solve. > > >> > > >> So I'd like to get your oppinnions. I'm thinking of using the > > >> sysctl interface to the kernel. Introduce a new variable and if this > > >> variable is set outgoing packets are given source address described in > > >> this variable. This would be done just before the source address is > > >> set to the outgoing interface if it's not already set. (in ip_output.c) > > >> > > >> I really have no real clue if this is the right way to go it's > > >> just my first idea and I'd like to hear whay you think about it. Thanks. > > >> > > >> > > >> Jamie Bowden writes: > > >> > > >> > On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Richard Smith wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Antti Kaipila wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I have a interesting problem here. I have FreeBSD accting as a router > > >> > > > between our LAN and Internet. I have a ET5025 card as interface > > eth0 and > > >> > > > Intel EtherExpress as interface fxp0. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > eth0 has address 10.156.214.2 and remote ends address is > > 10.156.214.1. > > >> > > > fxp0 has address 195.74.8.138 > > >> > > > > > >> > > > So, now when I try to connect from this machine acting as router to > > >> > > > anywhere on the internet my source address get set to > > >> > > > 10.156.214.2. Which is not nice, because all routers are dropping my > > >> > > > packets thinking they should'nt be routed (that's the right thing to > > >> > > > do ofcourse). > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Is there any way around this? > > >> > > > > >> > > You need to run natd on your FBSD router, so that all packets 'appear' > > >> > > to > > >> > > originate from *it* (195.74.8.138). See man natd. > > >> > > > >> > Not quite. His ISP is using 1918 networks between routers. > > >> > > > >> > I do this as well. With Cisco you can set the primary IP of the router, > > >> > and all traffic appears to come from that IP, no matter which > > interface it > > >> > goes through. If there is a way to have FreeBSD always report the > > >> > connection as coming from it's usable IP, all that has to be done is > > to do > > >> > it, but I don't know if FreeBSD can do that. > > >> > > > >> > Jamie Bowden > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net > > >> > > > >> > If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. > > >> > -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > >> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > >> > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Antti Kaipila > > >> > > >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >----- > > >See the original message at > > http://www.egroups.com/list/freebsd-hackers/?start=31780 > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 17:21:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15342 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:21:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dana.clari.net.au (dana.clari.net.au [203.27.85.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15335 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:21:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@clari.net.au) Received: from localhost (peter@localhost) by dana.clari.net.au (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10798; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:21:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter@clari.net.au) X-Authentication-Warning: dana.clari.net.au: peter owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:21:06 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Hawkins To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Peter Hawkins , custserv2@corel.ca Subject: Howto: wordperfect 8 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ever wanted to turn that little dos partition into a swap partition? Well now is your chance and while you're at it you'll be helping to make your stand against OS monopolies by supporting Corel in what is a brave and commendable move. Corel released wp 8 for linux this week and after some playing I managed to make it run. the 90 day free trial version is at http://www.downloads.com. It will read your word documents and provides as good or better functionality than Word IMHO. I am using: FreeBSD 3.0 stable, X11R6 (latest release) Unfortunately it does not install as documented but you can do it anyway as follows: 1. download the kit, either as one large file or as the 7 component files 2. Check that you have linux emulation on as follows: modstat you should see a line something like this: EXEC 0 0 f8bbd000 0020 f8bc4010 1 linux_mod If linux_mod is there, go to step 3. If you do not have linux emulation on, install the linux emulation kit (/usr/ports/emulators/linux_lib) and load the emulator by setting linux_enable="YES" in your /etc/rc.conf and (to save a reboot) typing: /usr/bin/linux" 3. start X11 (startx) if it is not already running 4. the distribution is *not* gzcompressed despite the extensions and the documentation. Just use tar xvf to extract the kit. (if you get it as seven separate parts, each is a separate tar file and untar them all separately: foreach i (0 1 2 3 4 5 6) tar xvf GUI0${i}.GZ done 5. The Runme installer fails so to install do the following in the directory from which you did step 4 above: cd linux/bin cat mwp?? > mwp cd ../../shared foreach i ( sf5028 sf5128 prs_b prs_g prs5028 prs5128 ) cp ${i}.us ${i}c.us done cd .. ln -s shared/install.wp . ./install.wp 6. (a) Don't attempt to install non-us dictionaries or thesauruses - if you can work out how let me know! They do not seem to be there for me. (b) ignore the warnings about files not being found (c) ignore the lack of printer drivers in the menu and continue without installing a printer - it seems to install them all anyway (at least it did for me) 7. Use the trial version until you are convinced it's the best word processor around (approx 10 minutes) then I would strongly urge you to register your copy at https://livewire.corel.com/wp8LinuxReg/register.html - For less than $70 you can save yourself $$$ in updating corel's competitor program, add the dos partition as a swap partition and get more memory for your box and show the world's software houses that taking a punt on FreeBSD/Linux can pay off. Peter Clarinet Internet Solutions Peter Hawkins 381 Swan St Richmond, Vic, Australia Ph: +61-3-9421 2006 Fax: +61-3-9421 2007 http://www.clari.net.au Peter@clari.net.au FreeBSD Project: thepish@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 17:26:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15751 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:26:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.nerds4rent.com (ns2.freedomnet.com [198.240.104.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15745 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:26:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kbyanc@freedomnet.com) Received: from freedomnet.com (tech.nerds4rent.com [198.240.104.20]) by mail.nerds4rent.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/antispam) with ESMTP id UAA10637 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 20:41:39 -0500 (EST) X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <367C5118.4C32904B@freedomnet.com> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 20:21:28 -0500 From: Kelly Yancey Organization: FreedomNet - http://www.freedomnet.com/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Joliet file system? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You have to forgive me if this has already been done in 3.0, but I'm still in stable-ville; is there any interest, or has there been any effort to add the Joliet extensions to the the iso9660 filesystem? Thanks, Kelly -- Kelly Yancey "Bill Gates is only a white Persian cat and ~kbyanc@freedomnet.com~ a monocle away from being the villain in a James Bond movie" - comedian Dennis Miller To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 17:59:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18518 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:59:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles151.castles.com [208.214.165.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18507 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:59:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04126; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:57:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812200157.RAA04126@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Peter Hawkins cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, custserv2@corel.ca Subject: Re: Howto: wordperfect 8 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:21:06 +1100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:57:06 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ever wanted to turn that little dos partition into a swap partition? Well > now is your chance and while you're at it you'll be helping to make your > stand against OS monopolies by supporting Corel in what is a brave and > commendable move. Actually, it's pretty light on swap. > Corel released wp 8 for linux this week and after some playing I managed to > make it run. the 90 day free trial version is at http://www.downloads.com. > It will read your word documents and provides as good or better functionality > than Word IMHO. Not quite as good, but perhaps more reliable. It does a barely tolerable job of reading Word documents. > Unfortunately it does not install as documented but you can do it anyway as > follows: It does, actually, install as documented if you use the single-large-file method. > 1. download the kit, either as one large file or as the 7 component files > > 2. Check that you have linux emulation on as follows: > > modstat > you should see a line something like this: > EXEC 0 0 f8bbd000 0020 f8bc4010 1 linux_mod > > If linux_mod is there, go to step 3. > > If you do not have linux emulation on, install the linux emulation > kit (/usr/ports/emulators/linux_lib) and load the emulator by > setting linux_enable="YES" in your /etc/rc.conf and (to save > a reboot) typing: > > /usr/bin/linux" It's important to start the emulator *before* you install the linux_lib port. > 3. start X11 (startx) if it is not already running xdm? > 4. the distribution is *not* gzcompressed despite the extensions and the > documentation. Just use tar xvf to extract the kit. (if you get it as > seven separate parts, each is a separate tar file and untar them all > separately: > > foreach i (0 1 2 3 4 5 6) > tar xvf GUI0${i}.GZ > done The files *are* compressed; you may be falling victim to a bug in Netscape which will uncompress the file but leave its extension in place. > 5. The Runme installer fails so to install do the following in the directory > from which you did step 4 above: > > cd linux/bin > cat mwp?? > mwp > cd ../../shared > foreach i ( sf5028 sf5128 prs_b prs_g prs5028 prs5128 ) > cp ${i}.us ${i}c.us > done > cd .. > ln -s shared/install.wp . > ./install.wp The Runme installer works fine, again if you're using the single-large-file download. Note that in that case there is no "linux/ bin" directory. > 6. (a) Don't attempt to install non-us dictionaries or thesauruses - if you > can work out how let me know! They do not seem to be there for me. You'll have to buy the CDROM. > (b) ignore the warnings about files not being found There are none if you've done it properly. > (c) ignore the lack of printer drivers in the menu and continue without > installing a printer - it seems to install them all anyway (at least > it did for me) They will all be there in the menu if you've done it properly. > Peter > > Clarinet Internet Solutions Peter Hawkins > 381 Swan St Richmond, > Vic, Australia Ph: +61-3-9421 2006 Fax: +61-3-9421 2007 You are in violation of the WordPerfect 8 license agreement. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 18:04:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19013 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:04:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19008 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:04:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from localhost (kpielorz@localhost) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA23298; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:03:49 GMT Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:03:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Karl Pielorz To: Kelly Yancey cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Joliet file system? In-Reply-To: <367C5118.4C32904B@freedomnet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, Kelly Yancey wrote: > > You have to forgive me if this has already been done in 3.0, but I'm > still in stable-ville; is there any interest, or has there been any > effort to add the Joliet extensions to the the iso9660 filesystem? > > Thanks, > > Kelly Hi, I've not seen anything about this - I wish there was support, or someone working on it... I've noticed all the recent Microsoft CD's I've received are all Joliet format - not good considering my CD jukebox is on my FreeBSD box... Unfortunately I'm not competent enough to write support for it - but if anyone is working on it and needs someone to test it, let me know! :) -Kp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 18:06:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19185 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:06:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles151.castles.com [208.214.165.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19180 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:06:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05441; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:03:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812200203.SAA05441@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mike Smith cc: Peter Hawkins , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, custserv2@corel.ca Subject: Re: Howto: wordperfect 8 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:57:06 PST." <199812200157.RAA04126@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:03:41 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Corel released wp 8 for linux this week and after some playing I managed to > > make it run. the 90 day free trial version is at http://www.downloads.com. > > It will read your word documents and provides as good or better functionality > > than Word IMHO. > > Not quite as good, but perhaps more reliable. It does a barely > tolerable job of reading Word documents. ... according to third-party comments I've read to date. > > 5. The Runme installer fails so to install do the following in the directory > > from which you did step 4 above: > > > > cd linux/bin > > cat mwp?? > mwp > > cd ../../shared > > foreach i ( sf5028 sf5128 prs_b prs_g prs5028 prs5128 ) > > cp ${i}.us ${i}c.us > > done > > cd .. > > ln -s shared/install.wp . > > ./install.wp > > The Runme installer works fine, again if you're using the > single-large-file download. Note that in that case there is no "linux/ > bin" directory. Whoops, fact error; there is indeed a linux/bin directory. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 20:10:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29736 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 20:10:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA29731 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 20:10:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 16139 invoked by uid 1001); 20 Dec 1998 04:11:12 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199812200157.RAA04126@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 23:11:12 -0500 (EST) X-Face: *0^4Iw) To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: Howto: wordperfect 8 Cc: custserv2@corel.ca, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Peter Hawkins Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20-Dec-98 Mike Smith wrote: >> Unfortunately it does not install as documented but you can do it anyway >> as >> follows: Hmmm. It did for me. >> 4. the distribution is *not* gzcompressed despite the extensions and the >> documentation. Just use tar xvf to extract the kit. (if you get it as >> seven separate parts, each is a separate tar file and untar them all >> separately: >> >> foreach i (0 1 2 3 4 5 6) >> tar xvf GUI0${i}.GZ >> done > > The files *are* compressed; you may be falling victim to a bug in > Netscape which will uncompress the file but leave its extension in > place. I downloaded the single file and it was indeed compressed. The missing link was that it was a gzipped tarball which the filename didn't exactly reveal. Runme ran fine and I didn't need to 'brand' the binary. I'm running 227 and I have linux emulation. AFAIK the need to brand hasn't been removed, or has it? Hopefully I'll get the chance to really check it out in the next week or so. It definitely seems less bloated than SO. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Searchable Campground Listings http://www.camping-usa.com "There is no outfit less entitled to lecture me about bloat than the federal government" -- Tony Snow ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 19 21:35:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06119 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 21:35:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles151.castles.com [208.214.165.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06112 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 21:35:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA41524 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 21:33:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812200533.VAA41524@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Wordperfect port committed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 21:33:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Not copied to -ports simply for the wider audience) Ok folks, you asked for it, so there it is. I've just committed a port for WordPerfect, based on the port that OpenBSD have. The most notable difference between the two is that I managed to work out how to disable the request for the installation directory, and instead coerce it into always installing in $PREFIX/lib/corel. You still have to fetch the distfile manually; whilst it would be trivial to do this automatically it'd be in violation of Corel's mirroring license, which would set the wrong tone for the whole matter. Feedback would be welcome; this works here for me (install and uninstall) and it portlints, but the install is somewhat complex and I'm sure to have missed something... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message