From owner-freebsd-isdn Sun Dec 13 02:11:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA08343 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 02:11:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from slarti.muc.de (slarti.muc.de [193.174.4.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA08331 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 02:11:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@jhs.muc.de) Received: (qmail 445 invoked from network); 13 Dec 1998 10:08:00 -0000 Received: from jhs.muc.de (193.174.4.84) by slarti.muc.de with SMTP; 13 Dec 1998 10:08:00 -0000 Received: from wall.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jhs.muc.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02043; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:38:24 GMT (envelope-from jhs@wall.jhs.no_domain) Message-Id: <199812121638.QAA02043@jhs.muc.de> To: Ignatios Souvatzis cc: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: data throughput From: "Julian Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian Stacey" X-Net: jhs@muc.de jhs@freebsd.org www.jhs.muc.de www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:31:15 +0100." <19981211213115.B458@jocelyn.rhein.de> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:38:23 +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: > On Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 12:51:38AM +0100, Julian Stacey wrote: > > > while the ta offered a rate of 7.5kbps the fritzcard only > > > provided 7.0kbps. > > > > FYI I get about 7.85 K (from memory, ie just under 8) out of my ISP muc.de > > (all my mail incoming gets queued by uucp localy there, so it saturates the > > link bandwidth for optimal efficiency :-) > > Creatix 16 bit, i4b-00.63-alpha-100798 > > I just got: > > 100% |**************************************| 313 KB 7555 B/s 00:00 E I quoted raw link rate shown by /usr/local/bin/isdnd -f . It is not generally appropriate to consider a single ftp task rate when considering throughput of the isdn system because: - ftp data rate will not show data used in ftp protocol overhead. - any intermediate site on the ftp route, or, more likely, the source ftpd, (& discs etc) if experiencing a system load, may stop feeding you for a percentage of the time. Only uses I can think of in quoting an FTP rate are: - to compare with WindDOS PC single tasking [l]users ;-) - to initially verify if hm@'s code is aprox correct, & not off by some large factor (which it doesn't seem to be, but always good to verify assumptions, (Viz. old modems' "CONNECT rate" messages ) To see link max rate, it must be saturated, & unless you can guarantee your other end's behaviour, I suggest soak the link like I normally use mine: [ All mail incoming is queued by host other end of isdn link, waiting for me] : so trigger it to flow, + start a few web browsers pointing at URLs noted from mail, + start a few ftp fetches of new source .tgz 's you want, + start an rdist/rsync update of some remote directories + wait a while for process setup to occur, ... then look at what your completely saturated ISDN link is shifting. Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sun Dec 13 05:44:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29736 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 05:44:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29731 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 05:44:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin@rumolt.teuto.de) Received: from rumolt.teuto.de (root@rumolt.teuto.de [212.8.203.81]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28595 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:44:31 +0100 Received: (from martin@localhost) by rumolt.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA01109 for freebsd-isdn@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:44:25 +0100 (MET) From: Martin Husemann Message-Id: <199812131344.OAA01109@rumolt.teuto.de> Subject: ITK Support To: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:44:24 +0100 (MET) Organization: Crusaders Catering Services Inc. ;-) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This was an easy one: isic0 at isa0 port 0x398-0x39b irq 10 isic0: ITK ix1 micro isic0: ISAC 2085 Version A1/A2 or 2086/2186 Version 1.1 (IOM-2) isic0: HSCX 82525 or 21525 Version 2.1 And it even works! Just have to do a little cleanup and send patches to Hellmuth. Martin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sun Dec 13 05:58:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01033 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 05:58:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from voyager.planb.com.au (voyager.planb.com.au [203.35.172.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01028 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 05:57:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin@planb.net.au) Received: from fossil.planb.com.au (fossil.planb.com.au [203.35.172.145]) by voyager.planb.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA00312; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 00:57:53 +1100 (EST) Received: by fossil.planb.com.au with Microsoft Mail id <01BE26F4.81F8E240@fossil.planb.com.au>; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:58:40 +1100 Message-ID: <01BE26F4.81F8E240@fossil.planb.com.au> From: Kevin Sheehan To: "freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG" , "'Martin Husemann'" Subject: RE: ITK Support Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:58:39 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Martin Husemann writes: > This was an easy one: > > isic0 at isa0 port 0x398-0x39b irq 10 > isic0: ITK ix1 micro > isic0: ISAC 2085 Version A1/A2 or 2086/2186 Version 1.1 (IOM-2) > isic0: HSCX 82525 or 21525 Version 2.1 > > And it even works! Just have to do a little cleanup and send patches to > Hellmuth. Great! Can you share? I should have an ix1 micro early this week and would love to try it out. cheers. Kevin. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sun Dec 13 06:33:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04664 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:33:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04653 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:32:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA20198; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:32:33 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from kuku) Message-ID: <19981213153232.A20173@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:32:32 +0100 From: Christoph Kukulies To: Martin Husemann , freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ITK Support References: <199812131344.OAA01109@rumolt.teuto.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91 In-Reply-To: <199812131344.OAA01109@rumolt.teuto.de>; from Martin Husemann on Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 02:44:24PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 02:44:24PM +0100, Martin Husemann wrote: > This was an easy one: > > isic0 at isa0 port 0x398-0x39b irq 10 > isic0: ITK ix1 micro > isic0: ISAC 2085 Version A1/A2 or 2086/2186 Version 1.1 (IOM-2) > isic0: HSCX 82525 or 21525 Version 2.1 > > And it even works! Just have to do a little cleanup and send patches to > Hellmuth. Bravo! That was fast :-) > > > Martin > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sun Dec 13 10:00:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21532 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:00:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rossel.saarnet.de (rossel.saarnet.de [145.253.240.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21524 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:00:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doehrm@aubi.de) Received: from igate.aubi.de (root@igate.aubi.de [145.253.242.249]) by rossel.saarnet.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17091; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:02:04 +0100 (MET) Received: from cisco.aubi.de ([170.56.121.252]) by igate.aubi.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA12280; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:12:51 +0100 Received: from exchange.aubi.de (EXCHANGE.aubi.de [170.56.121.91]) by cisco.aubi.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA29883; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:04:54 +0100 (CET) Received: by EXCHANGE.aubi.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:54:05 +0100 Message-ID: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Markus_D=F6hr?= To: "'Christoph Kukulies'" , Martin Husemann , freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: ITK Support Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:54:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA21528 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > isic0 at isa0 port 0x398-0x39b irq 10 > > isic0: ITK ix1 micro > > isic0: ISAC 2085 Version A1/A2 or 2086/2186 Version 1.1 (IOM-2) > > isic0: HSCX 82525 or 21525 Version 2.1 ...impressing... I couldn't wait till tomorrow so I drove to the company today on sunday looking which cards we really have. It's a ITK ix1-Basic, three pieces, one S0 and two UP0, but I think, these are active cards... Are there any problems with implementing active cards? I read something about time critical things long time ago in a Linux list, but I'm not very into this stuff... -- Markus Doehr IT Admin AUBI Baubeschläge GmbH Tel: +49 6503 917 152 Fax: +49 6503 917 190 MD1139-RIPE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sun Dec 13 10:25:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24091 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:25:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24085 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:25:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA20840; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:25:53 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from kuku) Message-ID: <19981213192552.A20832@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:25:52 +0100 From: Christoph Kukulies To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Markus_D=F6hr?= , "'Christoph Kukulies'" , Martin Husemann , freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ITK Support References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91 In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3CAB06BBFD8AFBD111B07600805FCB11920EED0A=40EXCHANGE=2Eau?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?bi=2Ede=3E=3B_from_Markus_D=F6hr_on_Sun=2C_Dec_13=2C_1998?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_at_06:54:04PM_+0100?= Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 06:54:04PM +0100, Markus Döhr wrote: > > > isic0 at isa0 port 0x398-0x39b irq 10 > > > isic0: ITK ix1 micro > > > isic0: ISAC 2085 Version A1/A2 or 2086/2186 Version 1.1 (IOM-2) > > > isic0: HSCX 82525 or 21525 Version 2.1 > > ...impressing... > > I couldn't wait till tomorrow so I drove to the company today on sunday > looking which cards we really have. > > It's a ITK ix1-Basic, three pieces, one S0 and two UP0, but I think, these > are active cards... Well, I think implementing active cards is a lot more difficult since it requires more knowledge about the on card 'intelligence', e.g. microcontroller, CPU or whatever rather than dealing with a well known and understood chip set. This is often information held back by the vendor. > > Are there any problems with implementing active cards? I read something > about time critical things long time ago in a Linux list, but I'm not very > into this stuff... > > -- > Markus Doehr > IT Admin > AUBI Baubeschläge GmbH > Tel: +49 6503 917 152 > Fax: +49 6503 917 190 > MD1139-RIPE > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sun Dec 13 11:26:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29207 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:25:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29196 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:25:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin@rumolt.teuto.de) Received: from rumolt.teuto.de (root@rumolt.teuto.de [212.8.203.81]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04596; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:25:06 +0100 Received: from hwart (hwart.teuto.de [212.8.203.83]) by rumolt.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA00605; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:26:38 +0100 (MET) From: "Martin Husemann" To: "Kevin Sheehan" , Subject: RE: ITK Support Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:26:38 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be26c6$1f1d0c10$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <01BE26F4.81F8E240@fossil.planb.com.au> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Great! Can you share? Please be patient a few more days - it will be available soon. Martin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sun Dec 13 11:28:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29200 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:25:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29192 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:25:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin@rumolt.teuto.de) Received: from rumolt.teuto.de (root@rumolt.teuto.de [212.8.203.81]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04593 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:25:05 +0100 Received: from hwart (hwart.teuto.de [212.8.203.83]) by rumolt.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA00884 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:35:44 +0100 (MET) From: "Martin Husemann" To: Subject: RE: ITK Support Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:35:44 +0100 Message-ID: <000101be26c7$64ed8e30$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Markus Döhr wrote: > Are there any problems with implementing active cards? I read something > about time critical things long time ago in a Linux list, but I'm not very > into this stuff... No, no real problems if (a) the interface to the card is documented, (b) the interface is reasonable and (c) the card behaves like the docs promise. The active cards are not driven by the isic driver on layer 1 which currently handles all ISAC/HSCX and IPAC based cards and the Q921/931 drivers on layer 2 and layer 3, but by their own driver interfacing right into I4B layer 4. These drivers are usually small (as most stuff is handled on the card itself) but hard to debug - since most of the magic is handled on the card itself ;-) You see, we have three of those drivers in the pipe, for a timeframe between 1/2 year and 1 1/2 year, and none of them is rely working now (as far as I know). It's completely impossible to write such a driver without docs (whether i.e. linux source counts as docs depends heavily on the style and comments of the linux source). We would be realy glad to have a driver for some active card distributed world wide - since this is the easiest way to get I4B working in places where EDSS1 is not used. Martin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sun Dec 13 14:39:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17541 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:39:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from voyager.planb.com.au (voyager.planb.com.au [203.35.172.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17536 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:39:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin@planb.net.au) Received: from fossil.planb.com.au (fossil.planb.com.au [203.35.172.145]) by voyager.planb.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA04232; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:39:24 +1100 (EST) Received: by fossil.planb.com.au with Microsoft Mail id <01BE273D.5C88A560@fossil.planb.com.au>; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:40:11 +1100 Message-ID: <01BE273D.5C88A560@fossil.planb.com.au> From: Kevin Sheehan To: "freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG" , "'Martin Husemann'" Subject: RE: ITK Support Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:40:09 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Please be patient a few more days - it will be available soon. > > >Martin Take your time! I'm just glad to have any support for it at all. Rgs. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sun Dec 13 20:48:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24779 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:48:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24774; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:48:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA12553; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:39:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdO12550; Mon Dec 14 04:39:41 1998 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:39:38 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! In-Reply-To: <8711.913504842@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org how about porting the whole shebang to whistle's 'streams' replacement.. we could probably supply the frame relay and ppp packetizer nodes along with the framework and tools... s On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > I think I have finally found out what the problem is with the state > machine in the if_sppp implementation. Whoever wrote the implementation > didn't carefully consider the inter-layer calls tls and tlf. > > If one applies a lot of patches like this one: > > case STATE_OPENED: > - (cp->tld)(sp); > sp->rst_counter[cp->protoidx] = 0; > sppp_cp_change_state(cp, sp, STATE_STOPPING); > + (cp->tld)(sp); > goto sta; > break; > > Then things actually start to make sense... > > The problem is that the tld and tlf functions often just call the > pp_up and pp_down routines directly, and therefore most if not all > of the expected up and down events happen in the previous state > as opposed to the next state. > > Flipping it around like I have done above, on the other hand, may > not be a good idea either, since it means we can nest another layer > on the stack and get somewhat confused on the way down. > > It is quite obvious that this will need some more work to sort out, > anybody interested in participating ? > > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." > "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 01:08:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29068 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 01:08:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA29063; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 01:08:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03043; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:07:37 +0100 (CET) To: Julian Elischer cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:39:38 PST." Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:07:33 +0100 Message-ID: <3041.913626453@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm still waiting for the src, docs and the license for that stuff, you promised to send it to me long time ago :-) Poul-Henning In message , Julian Elischer writes: >how about porting the whole shebang to whistle's 'streams' >replacement.. >we could probably supply the frame relay and ppp packetizer nodes along >with the framework and tools... >s > > >On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> >> I think I have finally found out what the problem is with the state >> machine in the if_sppp implementation. Whoever wrote the implementation >> didn't carefully consider the inter-layer calls tls and tlf. >> >> If one applies a lot of patches like this one: >> >> case STATE_OPENED: >> - (cp->tld)(sp); >> sp->rst_counter[cp->protoidx] = 0; >> sppp_cp_change_state(cp, sp, STATE_STOPPING); >> + (cp->tld)(sp); >> goto sta; >> break; >> >> Then things actually start to make sense... >> >> The problem is that the tld and tlf functions often just call the >> pp_up and pp_down routines directly, and therefore most if not all >> of the expected up and down events happen in the previous state >> as opposed to the next state. >> >> Flipping it around like I have done above, on the other hand, may >> not be a good idea either, since it means we can nest another layer >> on the stack and get somewhat confused on the way down. >> >> It is quite obvious that this will need some more work to sort out, >> anybody interested in participating ? >> >> >> -- >> Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member >> phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." >> "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message >> > > -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 03:07:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA10489 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:07:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10483 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:07:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from heinig@hdz-ima.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from HDZ-IMA.RWTH-Aachen.de (majestix.hdz-ima.RWTH-Aachen.DE) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.1-11 #30440) with ESMTP id <01J5BJ4MUUPQ00002T@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-isdn@freebsd.org; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:34:23 +0100 Received: from MAJESTIX/MAIL by HDZ-IMA.RWTH-Aachen.de (Mercury 1.20); Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:38:11 +0000 Received: from MAIL by MAJESTIX (Mercury 1.20); Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:23:29 +0000 Received: from hdz-ima.rwth-aachen.de by HDZ-IMA.RWTH-Aachen.de (Mercury 1.20) with ESMTP; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:23:22 +0000 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:21:32 +0100 From: Gerald Heinig Subject: ISAC & HSCX questions To: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <3673F79C.DC25867@hdz-ima.rwth-aachen.de> Organization: Informatik im Maschinenbau / Hochschuldidaktisches Zentrum, RWTH Aachen MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I've been wading through the i4b source code lately and have got myself the docs for the ISAC and HSCX chips from Siemens. There are a few questions I wanted to ask: Why do they refer to the data read and write registers as FIFOs? There doesn't seem to be anything queue-like about them. Why isn't there any documentation about the HSCX specifically? I downloaded the HSCX docs from Siemens, but there they talk about upgrading the ISAC-S TE to a larger FIFO and other stuff. Not a whisper about how the HSCX works. The ISAC docs, however, make lots of references to it. I know these two chips are designed for each other, but why doesn't there seem to be any HSCX-specific docs? How do you find out things like a Fritz! card having 0x05 in the low order bits of (I forget) and an AVM A1 having 0x04 or 0x05 in the same place? That's card-specific, isn't it? ie. nothing to do with ISAC/HSCX... Why do the registers at offset 0x30 to 0x3b have different names than those in the Siemens docs? (Just curious) Does the Fritz! driver use the IOM functionality? (I suppose the answer to that is RTFM :-) but since I'm writing the mail now, I might as well ask...) Thanks very much for any replies Gerald -- "A man's got to know his limitations..." 'Dirty' Harry Callaghan A.K.A Clint Eastwood To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 03:36:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA12432 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:36:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni-sb.de (uni-sb.de [134.96.252.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA12424 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:36:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mreckt@wurzelausix.CS.Uni-SB.DE) Received: from cs.uni-sb.de (cs.uni-sb.de [134.96.252.31]) by uni-sb.de (8.9.1a/1998121400) with ESMTP id MAA27768; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:36:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from wurzelausix (quadratix.cs.uni-sb.de [134.96.222.2]) by cs.uni-sb.de (8.9.1a/1998121400) with ESMTP id MAA02520; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:36:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from vodix.aremorika (vodix [134.96.247.43]) by wurzelausix (8.9.1/wjp/19980821) with ESMTP id MAA14651; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:36:04 +0100 (CET) Received: by vodix.aremorika; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:36:04 +0100 (MET) To: Gerald Heinig Cc: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISAC & HSCX questions References: <3673F79C.DC25867@hdz-ima.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Martin Recktenwald Date: 14 Dec 1998 12:36:04 +0100 In-Reply-To: Gerald Heinig's message of "Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:21:32 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 46 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gerald Heinig writes: > Why do they refer to the data read and write registers as FIFOs? There > doesn't seem to be anything queue-like about them. Maybe because you can write at the FIFO where you want but it will alway store the bytes in the order you wrote them? For example, write to fifo addr 04 value 11, then to 02 value 22 and ISAC/HSCX will store in its fifo value 11 as first byte and value 22 as second ... (well this sounds really difficult to understand :-), forget it, they are no fifo's, but they are also not some kind of storage you can write/read as you want.) > Why isn't there any documentation about the HSCX specifically? I > downloaded the HSCX docs from Siemens, but there they talk about > upgrading the ISAC-S TE to a larger FIFO and other stuff. The last time I looked at there were docs about the HSCX. What you found seems like some kind of "upgrade" information to the IPAC. Try downloading the HSCX documentation directly. Siemens obviously uses the same naming scheme for all ISDN related chips, so if you use something like doc2286psb.pdf to download the isac documentation, use doc82525psb.pdf to get the HSCX documentation :-) If you can't find the docs, send me mail, I have at least the HSCX 82525 docs still lying around (maybe even the HSCX-TE docs). > How do you find out things like a Fritz! card having 0x05 in the low > order bits of (I forget) and an AVM A1 having 0x04 or > 0x05 in the same place? > That's card-specific, isn't it? Yes, it is. All HSCX/ISAC boards I saw use a third (custom) chip and getting docs about it is quite likely a very difficult task. > Does the Fritz! driver use the > IOM functionality? This doesn't depend on the driver but on the hardware. The AVM Fritz! uses IOM-2 mode for communication between HSCX and ISAC. Martin. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 04:35:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA18834 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:35:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hcshh.hcs.de (hcshh.hcs.de [194.123.40.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA18829 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:35:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hm@hcs.de) Received: from hcswork.hcs.de([192.76.124.5]) (1741 bytes) by hcshh.hcs.de via sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:34:32 +0100 (MET) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2 built 1998-Jun-26) Received: by hcswork.hcs.de (Smail3.1.29.0 #12) id m0zpXFz-0000f8C; Mon, 14 Dec 98 13:37 MET Message-Id: From: hm@hcs.de (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: ISAC & HSCX questions In-Reply-To: <3673F79C.DC25867@hdz-ima.rwth-aachen.de> from Gerald Heinig at "Dec 13, 98 06:21:32 pm" To: heinig@hdz-ima.rwth-aachen.de (Gerald Heinig) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:37:47 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: hm@hcs.de Organization: HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >From the keyboard of Gerald Heinig: > Why do they refer to the data read and write registers as FIFOs? Because they are FIFO's. Except that you don't have to address them but that every data access increments an internal address pointer. > Why isn't there any documentation about the HSCX specifically? There is. Siemens just likes to change the location and name every one or two months ... :-( Anyway, the files i have here from the Siemens web-site are called psb21525.pdf and sab82525.pdf (where the former documents a somewhat stripped-down version of the HSCX). hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis Tel +49 40 559747-70 HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH Fax +49 40 559747-77 Oldesloer Strasse 97-99 Mail hm [at] hcs.de 22457 Hamburg WWW http://www.hcs.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 10:01:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18748 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:01:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.elpost.com (DNS2.ELPOST.COM [193.15.1.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18695; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:01:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from johan@granlund.nu) Received: from phoenix.granlund.nu (t3o29p81.telia.com [194.236.215.81]) by mail.elpost.com (2.5 Build 2626 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA00886; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:00:57 +0100 Received: from localhost (johan@localhost) by phoenix.granlund.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA10291; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:58:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from johan@granlund.nu) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:58:57 +0100 (CET) From: Johan Granlund To: Julian Elischer cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is this a implementation of SYSV Streams? /Johan On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > how about porting the whole shebang to whistle's 'streams' > replacement.. > we could probably supply the frame relay and ppp packetizer nodes along > with the framework and tools... > s > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 10:51:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25437 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:51:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25432 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:51:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin@rumolt.teuto.de) Received: from rumolt.teuto.de (root@rumolt.teuto.de [212.8.203.81]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07193; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:51:31 +0100 Received: from hwart (hwart.teuto.de [212.8.203.83]) by rumolt.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA02523; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:31:42 +0100 (MET) From: "Martin Husemann" To: "Martin Recktenwald" , "Gerald Heinig" Cc: Subject: RE: ISAC & HSCX questions Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:31:42 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be2766$164cec40$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Maybe because you can write at the FIFO where you want but it will > alway store the bytes in the order you wrote them? This is a typical hardware designer game: the chip (internaly) has a receive-FIFO and a transmit-FIFO. They are fifos, as the chip always places bytes at one end of the receive fifo and you always read the first-in byte from the other end. Same for the write access to the transmit fifo (only the other way around). Now: to minimize the address decoding part of the chip they overlapped both fifos: all read accesses go to the receive fifo, all write acceses to the transmit fifo (from that point of view the R/W signal is just another address bit). Now for the driver writer: to optimize the access you'll like to use a "string" opcode, like on the i386 "iosb", which does multiple transfers from the same port to a buffer. Whith some luck you can read a full fifo content by one instruction. Unfortunately some architectures don't have io-ports but instead use memory-mapped io. The same architectures often don't have an 'iosb' aequivalent (see the 68000 family). To play the same 'single instruction full fifo fetch' trick there the hardware designers chose to ignore the lower address bits when accessing the fifo: you code a memory block transfer, just like in C "memcpy(dest_buffer, rx_fifo, 32);", which can be done with autoincrement addressing modes on the 68000. Many modern cards use this feature to reduce the size of the mapped io area of the card: they split access to the chipset in two steps: first you write the address of the register you would like to access to an address latch register, then you access one data register. You'll need a minimum of two io-ports (four to eight used on real-world cards) for such a card, which suits well into the ISA-PnP world. And the "iosb" trick still works: just write the fifo address once into the latch, then do "iosb" on the data port. Martin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 12:11:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05130 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:11:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05110; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA03531; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdVV3523; Mon Dec 14 19:59:50 1998 Message-ID: <36756E2E.2781E494@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:59:42 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Johan Granlund CC: Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Johan Granlund wrote: > > Is this a implementation of SYSV Streams? > > /Johan > > On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > how about porting the whole shebang to whistle's 'streams' > > replacement.. > > we could probably supply the frame relay and ppp packetizer nodes along > > with the framework and tools... > > s > > No it's something that lives in the same ecological niche, but is different. it's not based on a 'stack' but instead allows an arbitrary network of processing elements to be created. I released it about 12 months ago but it needs some cleaning.. :-) julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 12:50:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09940 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:50:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09847; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:49:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin@rumolt.teuto.de) Received: from rumolt.teuto.de (root@rumolt.teuto.de [212.8.203.81]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11819; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:49:48 +0100 Received: (from martin@localhost) by rumolt.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) id VAA15362; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:48:34 +0100 (MET) From: Martin Husemann Message-Id: <199812142048.VAA15362@rumolt.teuto.de> Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! To: johan@granlund.nu (Johan Granlund) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:48:34 +0100 (MET) Cc: julian@whistle.com, phk@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Johan Granlund" at Dec 14, 98 06:58:57 pm Organization: Crusaders Catering Services Inc. ;-) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Is this a implementation of SYSV Streams? > > /Johan STREAMS (the SYSV heavy weight implementation) or streams (the concept)? Is it real? Martin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 13:17:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13718 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:17:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.elpost.com (DNS2.ELPOST.COM [193.15.1.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13669; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:17:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from johan@granlund.nu) Received: from phoenix.granlund.nu (t3o29p14.telia.com [194.236.215.14]) by mail.elpost.com (2.5 Build 2626 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA00940; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:12:40 +0100 Received: from localhost (johan@localhost) by phoenix.granlund.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA10547; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:12:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from johan@granlund.nu) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:12:29 +0100 (CET) From: Johan Granlund To: Julian Elischer cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_=C5kerling?= , current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! In-Reply-To: <36756E2E.2781E494@whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > Johan Granlund wrote: > > > > Is this a implementation of SYSV Streams? > > > > /Johan > > > > On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > how about porting the whole shebang to whistle's 'streams' > > > replacement.. > > > we could probably supply the frame relay and ppp packetizer nodes along > > > with the framework and tools... > > > s > > > > > No it's something that lives in the same ecological niche, but is > different. > > it's not based on a 'stack' but instead allows an arbitrary network of > processing elements to be created. > > I released it about 12 months ago but it needs some cleaning.. > :-) > > julian This is really interesting! One of the concepts i liked in SYSV (ducking for cover) was streams and its ability to chain together modules to process a datastream. If it's coupled with kld to dynamically load/unload modules i think you have something _very_ good. That network thing. Can a module route a package thru different modules based on contents and state? /Johan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 14:58:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26395 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:58:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peedub.muc.de (newpc.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26390 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:58:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garyj@peedub.muc.de) Received: from peedub.muc.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peedub.muc.de (8.9.1/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA05201 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:44:58 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199812142244.XAA05201@peedub.muc.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ITK Support Reply-To: Gary Jennejohn In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:35:44 +0100." <000101be26c7$64ed8e30$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:44:58 +0100 From: Gary Jennejohn Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA26391 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Martin Husemann" writes: >Markus Döhr wrote: > >> Are there any problems with implementing active cards? I read something >> about time critical things long time ago in a Linux list, but I'm not very >> into this stuff... > >No, no real problems if (a) the interface to the card is documented, (b) the >interface is reasonable and (c) the card behaves like the docs promise. > the real problem is that a lot of active cards require a CAPI interface, which we do not have (yet). Implementing a CAPI in a reasonable manner and interfacing it to the existing i4b structure is a problem which is being worked on (I have to get this going to support the AVM B1). --- Gary Jennejohn Home - garyj@muc.de Work - garyj@fkr.dec.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 15:10:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27600 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:10:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27505; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:09:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA11184; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:03:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdY11180; Mon Dec 14 23:03:08 1998 Message-ID: <36759929.ABD322C@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:03:05 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Johan Granlund CC: Poul-Henning Kamp , Lars ?kerling , current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Johan Granlund wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > Johan Granlund wrote: > > > > > > Is this a implementation of SYSV Streams? > > > > > > /Johan > > > > > > On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > > > how about porting the whole shebang to whistle's 'streams' > > > > replacement.. > > > > we could probably supply the frame relay and ppp packetizer nodes along > > > > with the framework and tools... > > > > s > > > > > > > > No it's something that lives in the same ecological niche, but is > > different. > > > > it's not based on a 'stack' but instead allows an arbitrary network of > > processing elements to be created. > > > > I released it about 12 months ago but it needs some cleaning.. > > :-) > > > > julian > > This is really interesting! > One of the concepts i liked in SYSV (ducking for cover) was streams and > its ability to chain together modules to process a datastream. > If it's coupled with kld to dynamically load/unload modules i think > you have something _very_ good. > > That network thing. Can a module route a package thru different modules > based on contents and state? you set up a 'web' of nodes to your own specification.. each node decides which connected node a packet will be routed out to.. you could (if you id it wrong, get an infinite loop with a packet looping around and around, but it's assumed that people setting this up wouldn't do that :-) we've had this code in heavy production for 2 years now. julian > > /Johan > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 15:16:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28562 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:16:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27390; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:07:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:07:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812142307.PAA27390@hub.freebsd.org> From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: johan@granlund.nu CC: julian@whistle.com, phk@FreeBSD.ORG, lars@akerlings.t.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Johan Granlund on Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:12:29 +0100 (CET)) Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! References: Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:12:29 +0100 (CET) > From: Johan Granlund > > This is really interesting! > One of the concepts i liked in SYSV (ducking for cover) was streams and > its ability to chain together modules to process a datastream. > If it's coupled with kld to dynamically load/unload modules i think > you have something _very_ good. > > That network thing. Can a module route a package thru different modules > based on contents and state? the idea of streams is wonderful, the realization is costly. each layer added (or module pushed) slows down processing and hurts throughput. ritchie developed streams for serial, if i remember correctly. streams was then applied to networks. there is an RFC about layering being bad for networking and the relative performance of NIT vs BPF prove the case. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 15:30:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29870 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:30:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29860; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:30:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06843; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:23:01 +0100 (CET) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: johan@granlund.nu, julian@whistle.com, lars@akerlings.t.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:07:41 PST." <199812142307.PAA27390@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:23:00 +0100 Message-ID: <6841.913677780@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199812142307.PAA27390@hub.freebsd.org>, "Jonathan M. Bresler" write s: >> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:12:29 +0100 (CET) >> From: Johan Granlund >> >> This is really interesting! >> One of the concepts i liked in SYSV (ducking for cover) was streams and >> its ability to chain together modules to process a datastream. >> If it's coupled with kld to dynamically load/unload modules i think >> you have something _very_ good. >> >> That network thing. Can a module route a package thru different modules >> based on contents and state? > > the idea of streams is wonderful, the realization is costly. each > layer added (or module pushed) slows down processing and hurts > throughput. ritchie developed streams for serial, if i remember > correctly. streams was then applied to networks. there is an RFC > about layering being bad for networking and the relative performance > of NIT vs BPF prove the case. But with that said, there is still something to be said for modular and well defined interfaces. But streams ? No. They were great for async protocols, but they fail badly for packet stuff. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Mon Dec 14 22:30:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19594 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:30:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19589 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:30:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin@rumolt.teuto.de) Received: from rumolt.teuto.de (root@rumolt.teuto.de [212.8.203.81]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA28610; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:30:08 +0100 Received: from hwart (hwart.teuto.de [212.8.203.83]) by rumolt.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01290; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:27:25 +0100 (MET) From: "Martin Husemann" To: "Gary Jennejohn" , Subject: RE: ITK Support Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:27:22 +0100 Message-ID: <000601be27f3$f943d120$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199812142244.XAA05201@peedub.muc.de> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I wrote: > >No, no real problems if (a) the interface to the card is > documented, (b) the > >interface is reasonable and (c) the card behaves like the docs promise. Gary answered: > the real problem is that a lot of active cards require a CAPI interface, > which we do not have (yet). This is an example of violating (b) above - IMHO. The idea goes back to the DOS days: a CAPI was required as user-land interface, and implementing it in a TSR costed precious memory. So they've put all of the CAPI stuff onto the card (where memory could be added as needed). Nowadays even a windows driver can waste a hundreds of kByte code without any bad effect on the system as a whole - so the interface to the card should be as simple as possible, not on user-land application level like CAPI. I like the (old) EICON.Diehl cards for having such a reasonable (and well documented) interface, yet it doesn't give all the debugging information I'd like to have, so I still don't know why it drops the called party number on a setup request... Martin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 00:27:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01479 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:27:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01248; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:27:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17431; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:26:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd017377; Tue Dec 15 01:26:57 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA16811; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:26:39 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812150826.BAA16811@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! To: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:26:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: johan@granlund.nu, julian@whistle.com, phk@FreeBSD.ORG, lars@akerlings.t.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812142307.PAA27390@hub.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Dec 14, 98 03:07:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > the idea of streams is wonderful, the realization is costly. each > layer added (or module pushed) slows down processing and hurts > throughput. ritchie developed streams for serial, if i remember > correctly. streams was then applied to networks. there is an RFC > about layering being bad for networking and the relative performance > of NIT vs BPF prove the case. The main drawback in streams is that, even in ideal conditions, when you get two or more layers interacting (that is, when you get one stack element between the "top" and "bottom", other than "null"), you have to take a context switch to propagate the data in at least one direction, if not both. Some hacks (at Novell) ran the push up to the top of the stack at interrupt level to try to avoid this, but of course, it failed rather spectacularly if you added things like MUX modules on top of IPX on top of SPX. In general, the fact that the getmsg/putmsg had to run in a process context, and that that context was given over by any process going into or coming out of a system call, as well as ther switchpoints in the kernel contributed to the general idea that STREAMS was a pig. When UnixWare went from a monolithic driver implemetnation (like what's in FreeBSD now) to NetWare drivers running under UNIX using a shim layer, there was an additional 35% latency, overall, that was introduced into a three module stack. I think that netgraph resolves some, but not all, of these issues. Ideally, you would want an operation to propagate the full stack, up or down, as a result of one operation. A long time ago (mid 1994), I did a full SVR4-style priority banded STREAMS implementation for FreeBSD as part of an inside "skunkworks" project to port NWU (NetWare for UNIX) to FreeBSD and Linux. I resolved a number of these issues internally by creating a high priority kernel process to push things up and down the stack; sort of a soft interrupt handler, if you will. A worker process can go a long way to resolving the streams latency issues; it also didn't hurt that FreeBSD monolithic network drivers were faster than the ones in UnixWare. 8-). I bet that if these same issues were measured in netgraph, a similar tactic would be sufficient to resolve the vast majority of cases (one exception being if someone declared a network task "real time", and no one bothered to implement priority lending to stave off inversion; but that's pilot error). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 00:49:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03368 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:49:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hcshh.hcs.de (hcshh.hcs.de [194.123.40.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA03362; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:49:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hm@hcs.de) Received: from hcswork.hcs.de([192.76.124.5]) (2128 bytes) by hcshh.hcs.de via sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:48:50 +0100 (MET) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2 built 1998-Jun-26) Received: by hcswork.hcs.de (Smail3.1.29.0 #12) id m0zpqD8-0000f8C; Tue, 15 Dec 98 09:52 MET Message-Id: From: hm@hcs.de (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! In-Reply-To: <199812150826.BAA16811@usr06.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Dec 15, 98 08:26:39 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:52:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: hm@hcs.de Organization: HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >From the keyboard of Terry Lambert: (Cc: stripped) > Ideally, you would want an operation to propagate the full stack, > up or down, as a result of one operation. Can you please explain why one operation wants to propagate the full stack ? Background: In the current i4b ISDN implementation exactly this happens, i.e. a layer 1 IRQ triggers an action in layer 2 triggering an action in layer 3 which triggers an action (going down now) in layer 2 triggering an action in layer 1 again. The problem of this going up and down at IRQ time is not only the time lasting, but i.e. layer 2 being in a state transition which is not fully finished when the reply from layer 3 going down enters layer 2 again (being still in the middle of the previous up-going state transition). Until now i was under the impression that only a decoupling of the layers would make the transitions in one layer an atomic operation to avoid the above described scenario. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis Tel +49 40 559747-70 HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH Fax +49 40 559747-77 Oldesloer Strasse 97-99 Mail hm [at] hcs.de 22457 Hamburg WWW http://www.hcs.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 04:44:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24348 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:44:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eharz001.nortel.co.uk (eharz001.nortel.co.uk [192.100.101.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA24343 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:44:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from barry.scott.tsbarry@nortel.co.uk) Received: from bhars221.europe.nortel.com (actually eharg1e1.nortel.co.uk) by eharz001.nortel.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:47:18 +0000 Received: from nnsgifd1.europe.nortel.com by bhars221.europe.nortel.com with SMTP (PP); Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:39:47 +0000 Received: by nnsgifd1.europe.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:41:32 -0000 Message-ID: <81C8165DD2A7D111AD700000F81F29CB025049E7@nwcwi19.europe.nortel.com> From: "Scott, Barry [MDN05:7E26:EXCH]" To: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: streams implementations Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:41:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathan M. Bresler [jmb@FreeBSD.ORG] said. > the idea of streams is wonderful, the realization is costly. each > layer added (or module pushed) slows down processing and hurts > roughput. ritchie developed streams for serial, if i remember > correctly. streams was then applied to networks. there is an RFC > about layering being bad for networking and the relative performance > of NIT vs BPF prove the case. At DEC we used a comms exec called LES (Layered environment services) that allowed a web of nodes to be connected. The VAX PSI and DEC NIS routers and parts of DECnet Phase V where LES implemented comms. LES ran inside the VAX/VMS OS and in embeded systems like the routers. For design and debug LES ran in user mode simulation. The performance was better then direct call between layers. And having clean OO like seperatation of layers and (literally) message passing made implementation fast. Stream (the concept) can be implemented as a very light weight mechanism. Of course we passed buffers around not individual bytes. And used very smart buffer management. BArry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 08:53:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA18955 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:53:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni-sb.de (uni-sb.de [134.96.252.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18934 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:53:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mreckt@wurzelausix.CS.Uni-SB.DE) Received: from cs.uni-sb.de (cs.uni-sb.de [134.96.252.31]) by uni-sb.de (8.9.1a/1998121400) with ESMTP id RAA07769 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:52:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from wurzelausix.cs.uni-sb.de (quadratix.cs.uni-sb.de [134.96.222.2]) by cs.uni-sb.de (8.9.1a/1998121400) with ESMTP id RAA18947 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:52:35 +0100 (CET) Received: (from mreckt@localhost) by wurzelausix.cs.uni-sb.de (8.9.1/wjp/19980821) id RAA20868; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:52:35 +0100 (CET) To: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: "bug" in i4b_avm_a1.c Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Martin Recktenwald Date: 15 Dec 1998 17:52:34 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 18 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, the following in i4b_avm_a1.c is wrong: #define AVM_CONF_RD_HIRQ 0x01 /* 0 = HSCX IRQ active */ #define AVM_CONF_RD_IIRQ 0x02 /* 0 = ISAC IRQ active */ it should be: #define AVM_CONF_RD_IIRQ 0x01 /* 0 = ISAC IRQ active */ #define AVM_CONF_RD_HIRQ 0x02 /* 0 = HSCX IRQ active */ Verified with some debugging work and a look in the Linux AVM driver. It doesn't hurt in the current i4b implementation because these two defines are never used. Martin. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 09:50:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26947 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:50:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.elpost.com (DNS2.ELPOST.COM [193.15.1.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26912; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:50:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from johan@granlund.nu) Received: from phoenix.granlund.nu (t4o29p18.telia.com [194.236.215.138]) by mail.elpost.com (2.5 Build 2626 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA01235; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:50:14 +0100 Received: from localhost (johan@localhost) by phoenix.granlund.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA11956; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:49:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from johan@granlund.nu) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:49:13 +0100 (CET) From: Johan Granlund To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , julian@whistle.com, lars@akerlings.t.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! In-Reply-To: <6841.913677780@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <199812142307.PAA27390@hub.freebsd.org>, "Jonathan M. Bresler" write > s: > >> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:12:29 +0100 (CET) > >> From: Johan Granlund > >> > >> This is really interesting! > >> One of the concepts i liked in SYSV (ducking for cover) was streams and > >> its ability to chain together modules to process a datastream. > >> If it's coupled with kld to dynamically load/unload modules i think > >> you have something _very_ good. > >> > >> That network thing. Can a module route a package thru different modules > >> based on contents and state? > > > > the idea of streams is wonderful, the realization is costly. each > > layer added (or module pushed) slows down processing and hurts > > throughput. ritchie developed streams for serial, if i remember > > correctly. streams was then applied to networks. there is an RFC > > about layering being bad for networking and the relative performance > > of NIT vs BPF prove the case. > > But with that said, there is still something to be said for modular > and well defined interfaces. But streams ? No. They were great > for async protocols, but they fail badly for packet stuff. Lets get something clear. I was not talking about migrating our networking to SYSV style streams. If someone was talking about converting our networking code to streams i would probably scream. Multiple layers cause more latency, nothing new there at all! What i was thinking about was something more like lowbandwidth / high processing protocols. If the endpoint is a serial port, network interface or the network protocol stack (for tunneling) should't be a issue if it's used right. PPP seems as a contender there and it would get streams used. If it's not used then it's rotts. /Johan > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." > "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 10:15:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00741 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:15:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00515; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:15:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:15:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812151815.KAA00515@hub.freebsd.org> From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: johan@granlund.nu CC: phk@critter.freebsd.dk, julian@whistle.com, lars@akerlings.t.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Johan Granlund on Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:49:13 +0100 (CET)) Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! References: Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:49:13 +0100 (CET) > From: Johan Granlund > > Lets get something clear. I was not talking about migrating our networking > to SYSV style streams. [snip] > If the endpoint is a serial port, network interface > or the network protocol stack (for tunneling) should't be a issue if > it's used right. [snip] i agree.....with your first statement. how that mess^Hhes with the second statement, i dont know. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 13:02:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24516 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:02:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA24508; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:02:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA17085; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:56:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017081; Tue, 15 Dec 98 12:56:21 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA00665; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:56:21 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199812152056.MAA00665@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! In-Reply-To: from Johan Granlund at "Dec 15, 98 06:49:13 pm" To: johan@granlund.nu (Johan Granlund) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:56:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: phk@critter.freebsd.dk, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com, lars@akerlings.t.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Johan Granlund writes: > What i was thinking about was something more like lowbandwidth / high > processing protocols. If the endpoint is a serial port, network interface > or the network protocol stack (for tunneling) should't be a issue if > it's used right. Here's some examples of what we use the netgraph stuff for on the InterJet. As quick background, netgraph nodes are in the kernel and represent the atomic units of the netgraph system. Each node has 'hooks' which can be connected to other netgraph nodes via their corresponding hooks. If you're into graph theory, node == node and joined pair of hooks == edge. Data travels in mbufs from node to node via their connected hooks. There is also a synchronous command/response message capability, for configuration, misc other stuff, etc.. Nodes normally run at splnet(), but can run at different spl's if need be; we have routines to handle the required queueing. Examples of nodes we've actually written and use in production (some of these are proprietary and can't be released just yet): - Socket node This is a netgraph node which is also a socket in the family PF_NETGRAPH. Allows user mode programs to participate in the netgraph system and act just like any other node. We've also written a user level library to make communicating with netgraph sockets easy. - Async node This is a netgraph node which is also a line discipline. It does PPP async <-> sync conversion, by connecting to a serial line and having a hook for sending/receiving synchronous PPP frames (which get converted) to the serial line. - Interface node This is a netgraph node which is also a (point-to-point) interface. It has hooks for each protocol family. Packets are forwarded between the interface and the hooks. - Cisco HDLC node This node takes raw frames on one side and demultiplexes them according to the Cisco HDLC protocol into IP, AppleTalk, etc. Also handles keep-alives. Typically, you'd connect each protocol hook to the corresponding protocol hook of an interface node. - Frame relay node Receives raw frame relay frames, and has hooks for each DLCI. - Frame relay LMI Hook this to DLCI 0 and DLCI 1023 to do auto-detection of frame relay LMI type, and perform the appropriate LMI protocol. - RFC 1490 Protocol demux'ing according to RFC 1490. Used on many frame relay links. - ISDN node Is a device driver and a netgraph node. Performs the D channel signalling and has a hook for each B channel. Accepts synchronous commands for things like dialing, etc. - Synchronous card node We have a synchronous card that is also a node with a single hook for the input/output of raw HDLC frames. - Other nodes.. mostly for debugging... Echo node - echo frames back on the hook whence they came Hole node - consume and discard all frames received Tee node - dupliacate each frame that passes through it and send it out via a different hook This system has really worked out great. If we wanted to do something wacky like run frame relay over the ISDN B channel, it would be trivial to set up. If you've seen the InterJet synchronous port configuration page, you can see how we support all the different ways of configuring that port -- each configuration just represents a different netgraph setup. The more I work with it, the more I realize that a major benefit is that it provides a clean and efficient way for user level programs to communicate directly with low-level kernel drivers and stuff -- and in more interesting ways than a /dev entry allows. It's a step up from the /dev/foo* and ioctl() method of communicating. The simplicity of nodes means you can get the minimal kernel stuff done first and develop the higher layer protocols in user space, where debugging is easier. Then when it's all working, turn it into a kernel netgraph node -- none of it's neighbors will know the difference. Of course the other major benefit is modularity. Instead of having if_ppp.c, if_sppp.c, if_foo1.c, if_foo2.c, where you are reimplementing the interface behavior code over and over again, you just keep this code in a single place: ng_iface.c, the interface node. Then anybody who needs to export an interface can do so by connecting it to an interface node (example: cisco hdlc node). These little guys make great LKM/KLD modules too.. Anyway, one reason I'm hyping this a little bit is because we (Julian and me) want to clean up, and update, and unencumber the netgraph code that was released a year or so ago, and check it in so people can start playing with it more. It will take a little time though, not to mention approval from the kernel gargoyles... -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 13:28:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28019 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:28:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peedub.muc.de (newpc.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28014 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:28:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garyj@peedub.muc.de) Received: from peedub.muc.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peedub.muc.de (8.9.1/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA08885 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:10:52 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199812152110.WAA08885@peedub.muc.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ITK Support Reply-To: Gary Jennejohn In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:27:22 +0100." <000601be27f3$f943d120$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:10:52 +0100 From: Gary Jennejohn Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Martin Husemann" writes: >I wrote: >> >No, no real problems if (a) the interface to the card is >> documented, (b) the >> >interface is reasonable and (c) the card behaves like the docs promise. > >Gary answered: >> the real problem is that a lot of active cards require a CAPI interface, >> which we do not have (yet). > >This is an example of violating (b) above - IMHO. > you have a valid point there... >The idea goes back to the DOS days: a CAPI was required as user-land >interface, and implementing it in a TSR costed precious memory. So they've >put all of the CAPI stuff onto the card (where memory could be added as >needed). > I thought the idea behind CAPI was to avoid having to write a special interface for each card. If the card talks CAPI and the user's application too, then everything's jake. The user can theoretically plug in any (CAPI talking) card and his application will still work. Don't forget, the big market is still M$ based machines, so the manufacturers naturally target it. Every WinDoze user has a CAPI installed, doesn't he ? ;-) It would make my life a lot easier if the vermaledeite AVM B1 did not require a CAPI interface, though ! --- Gary Jennejohn Home - garyj@muc.de Work - garyj@fkr.dec.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 13:53:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01402 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:53:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.netcologne.de (mail2.netcologne.de [194.8.194.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01397 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:53:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marc@netcologne.de) Received: from oranje.my.domain (dial9-242.netcologne.de [194.8.195.242]) by mail2.netcologne.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA28121; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:53:05 +0100 (MET) X-Ncc-Regid: de.netcologne Received: (from marc@localhost) by oranje.my.domain (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA04884; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:53:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marc) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:53:53 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199812152153.WAA04884@oranje.my.domain> From: Marc van Woerkom To: eivind@yes.no CC: van.woerkom@netcologne.de, garyj@muc.de, freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19981124180102.L24412@follo.net> (message from Eivind Eklund on Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:01:02 +0100) Subject: Re: updates to i4b Reply-to: van.woerkom@netcologne.de Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Eivind! > Mind telling us which hangs and how you deal with them? :-) I'm connected to my ISP via i4b's ppp. i4b is configured to hang up after a certain idle time. Let's say I browse the web with netscape, often I have to call up URL two times (first time to initiate a new connection, second time to fetch the page) and after some time, I get strange error messages. It could be a problem with my routing setup. If I issue ifconfig isppp0 down route delete default /etc/rc.isdn stop /etc/rc.isdn everything works fine again. I know this description is vague, so please tell me, what information you need - I assume I have to turn on certain i4b debugging flags. Regards, Marc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 13:57:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02063 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:57:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01955; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:57:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA37509; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:56:25 +0100 (CET) To: Archie Cobbs cc: johan@granlund.nu (Johan Granlund), jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com, lars@akerlings.t.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:56:21 PST." <199812152056.MAA00665@bubba.whistle.com> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:56:24 +0100 Message-ID: <37507.913758984@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Anyway, one reason I'm hyping this a little bit is because we >(Julian and me) want to clean up, and update, and unencumber the >netgraph code that was released a year or so ago, and check it in >so people can start playing with it more. It will take a little time >though, not to mention approval from the kernel gargoyles... Well, I think this one of those gargoyles speaking, and his position is that it sounds very very interesting, but he would hate to have it committed anywhere until he has had a decent chance to try it out. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 13:58:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02266 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:58:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peedub.muc.de (newpc.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02254; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:58:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garyj@peedub.muc.de) Received: from peedub.muc.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peedub.muc.de (8.9.1/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA10556; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:44:48 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199812152144.WAA10556@peedub.muc.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! Reply-To: Gary Jennejohn In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:56:21 PST." <199812152056.MAA00665@bubba.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:44:48 +0100 From: Gary Jennejohn Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Archie Cobbs writes: >Johan Granlund writes: >> What i was thinking about was something more like lowbandwidth / high >> processing protocols. If the endpoint is a serial port, network interface >> or the network protocol stack (for tunneling) should't be a issue if >> it's used right. > >Here's some examples of what we use the netgraph stuff for on the >InterJet. > [snip] > - ISDN node > > Is a device driver and a netgraph node. Performs the D channel > signalling and has a hook for each B channel. Accepts synchronous > commands for things like dialing, etc. > [snip] does this handle the full I.430, Q.93x stuff too ? In other words, passive ISDN cards ? >Of course the other major benefit is modularity. Instead of having >if_ppp.c, if_sppp.c, if_foo1.c, if_foo2.c, where you are reimplementing >the interface behavior code over and over again, you just keep this >code in a single place: ng_iface.c, the interface node. Then anybody >who needs to export an interface can do so by connecting it to an >interface node (example: cisco hdlc node). > >These little guys make great LKM/KLD modules too.. > >Anyway, one reason I'm hyping this a little bit is because we >(Julian and me) want to clean up, and update, and unencumber the >netgraph code that was released a year or so ago, and check it in >so people can start playing with it more. It will take a little time >though, not to mention approval from the kernel gargoyles... > wow ! This sounds like it would be great for the CAPI stuff I'm trying to implement for isdn4bsd right now. If the card needs CAPI, just hang a CAPI node in the graph. Unfortunately, the effort involved in converting isdn4bsd to use the netgraph mechanism boggles the mind :-( --- Gary Jennejohn Home - garyj@muc.de Work - garyj@fkr.dec.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 14:15:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04654 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:15:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04646; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:15:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA18171; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma018163; Tue, 15 Dec 98 14:06:05 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA03477; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:06:05 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199812152206.OAA03477@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! In-Reply-To: <37507.913758984@critter.freebsd.dk> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Dec 15, 98 10:56:24 pm" To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:06:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: archie@whistle.com, johan@granlund.nu, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com, lars@akerlings.t.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >Anyway, one reason I'm hyping this a little bit is because we > >(Julian and me) want to clean up, and update, and unencumber the > >netgraph code that was released a year or so ago, and check it in > >so people can start playing with it more. It will take a little time > >though, not to mention approval from the kernel gargoyles... > > Well, I think this one of those gargoyles speaking, and his position > is that it sounds very very interesting, but he would hate to have > it committed anywhere until he has had a decent chance to try it > out. That's certainly OK.. One nice thing is that no existing kernel source files are modified (except /sys/files/conf). It all lives in /sys/netgraph. So it's easy to play with without a lot of... patchwork. I'll send out a message when we've got something ready for review & testing (probably after Christmas holidays when I can spend some time on it). -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 15:11:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11171 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:11:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11151; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:11:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id PAA19343; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:10:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019339; Tue, 15 Dec 98 15:10:04 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA04618; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:10:04 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199812152310.PAA04618@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! In-Reply-To: <199812152144.WAA10556@peedub.muc.de> from Gary Jennejohn at "Dec 15, 98 10:44:48 pm" To: garyj@muc.de Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:10:04 -0800 (PST) Cc: isdn@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gary Jennejohn writes: > >Here's some examples of what we use the netgraph stuff for on the > >InterJet. > > > [snip] > > - ISDN node > > > > Is a device driver and a netgraph node. Performs the D channel > > signalling and has a hook for each B channel. Accepts synchronous > > commands for things like dialing, etc. > > > [snip] > > does this handle the full I.430, Q.93x stuff too ? In other words, > passive ISDN cards ? [ trimming recipients to -isdn after this reply ] We have a (very big) node that does this based on a 3rd party ISDN stack. Unfortunately, we can't give away their software without their permission... > wow ! This sounds like it would be great for the CAPI stuff I'm trying > to implement for isdn4bsd right now. If the card needs CAPI, just hang > a CAPI node in the graph. Yep. > Unfortunately, the effort involved in converting isdn4bsd to use the > netgraph mechanism boggles the mind :-( It's probably not that hard. I mean, the netgraph part of it is fairly minimal and can just be a wrapper around existing code. It more depends on how modular the code is to begin with. It would definitely be nice if all the different ISDN drivers could export the same type of netgraph "ISDN BRI" node. Then you could use the user-mode PPP with any of them, for example. The command/response stuff makes it kindof object oriented.. eg, netgraph node | +------- ISDN BRI node | +-------- Foo ISDN card | +-------- Bar ISDN card Each "type" has a certain API for the synchronous command/response messages. Eg, for ISDN they would be things like "dial this number", "configure SPID", etc. There are generic commands at the netgraph level too, like "reset node", etc. In the other direction, the Foo type could extend the set of commands with card-specific stuff. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Tue Dec 15 16:16:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21568 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:16:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21556; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:16:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06688; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07792; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:11:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA00971; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:11:29 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199812160011.QAA00971@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:11:29 -0800 In-Reply-To: Poul-Henning Kamp "Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!!" (Dec 15, 12:23am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Poul-Henning Kamp , "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! Cc: johan@granlund.nu, julian@whistle.com, lars@akerlings.t.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG, isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Dec 15, 12:23am, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: } Subject: Re: if_sppp is BROKEN!!! } But with that said, there is still something to be said for modular } and well defined interfaces. But streams ? No. They were great } for async protocols, but they fail badly for packet stuff. This is one of my favorite quotes, from Van Jacobson in his cslip package: Note that in Sun OS 4.x, slip runs over a "streams" tty driver where much of the underlying support code was taken from AT&T's System-V Unix. This support code is incredibly bad: A Sun-3/50 will run both it's serial ports at 38,400 baud with no problems under Sun OS 3.x (which uses the Berkeley/V7 tty driver). That same 3/50 can not keep up with one serial port running at 9600 baud under Sun OS 4.0.3. The AT&T code also doesn't handle any kind of exception correctly: If it runs out of stream buffers or gets a signal or interrupt at the wrong time, the system will crash. So, run Sun OS 3 if you have any choice. If you have no choice, try this stuff but don't expect reasonable performance or robustness. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Wed Dec 16 02:10:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA19000 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:10:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw-nl3.philips.com (gw-nl3.philips.com [192.68.44.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA18992 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:10:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl3.philips.com with ESMTP id LAA13661 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:10:03 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl3.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma013659; Wed, 16 Dec 98 11:10:03 +0100 Received: from dibbs1.eur.cis.philips.com (dibbs1.eur.cis.philips.com [130.139.33.66]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.8.5/8.6.10-1.2.2m-970826) with ESMTP id LAA23210 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:09:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from hal.mpn.cp.philips.com (hal.mpn.cp.philips.com [130.139.64.195]) by dibbs1.eur.cis.philips.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA15649 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:09:45 +0100 (MET) Received: (qmail 90660 invoked by uid 666); 16 Dec 1998 10:10:05 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:10:05 +0100 From: Jos Backus To: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Does i4b also run on BSD/OS [34].x? Message-ID: <19981216111005.B90286@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Reply-To: Jos Backus References: <01BE26F4.81F8E240@fossil.planb.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <01BE26F4.81F8E240@fossil.planb.com.au>; from Kevin Sheehan on Sun, Dec 13, 1998 at 11:58:39PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My sincere apologies for the off-topic post, but... ? Thanks, -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Wed Dec 16 03:50:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28850 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:50:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bitbucket.extern.uniface.nl (nettle.uniface.nl [193.78.88.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA28840 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:50:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bert_driehuis@nl.compuware.com) Received: (from smtpd@localhost) by bitbucket.extern.uniface.nl (8.7.6/8.7.3) id MAA21454; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:50:16 +0100 (MET) Received: from dewmoth.nl.compuware.com(172.16.16.49) via SMTP by recyclebin.nl.compuware.com, id smtpd021436; Wed Dec 16 12:50:15 1998 Received: from nl.compuware.com (bertd@c1111.nl.compuware.com [172.16.16.36]) by dewmoth.nl.compuware.com (8.6.9/961125) with ESMTP id MAA26817; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:50:14 +0100 Message-ID: <36779E75.42E43C11@nl.compuware.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:50:13 +0100 From: Bert Driehuis Organization: Compuware Europe, Amsterdam X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; BSD/OS 3.1 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jos Backus CC: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does i4b also run on BSD/OS [34].x? References: <01BE26F4.81F8E240@fossil.planb.com.au> <19981216111005.B90286@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jos Backus wrote: > My sincere apologies for the off-topic post, but... ? Hee, bovenbuurman! :-) I've started porting it to 4.0, but got sidetracked. I want to pick it up again, but time is at a premium... If you want to do some severe kernel hacking and you've got a source code license to BSD/OS 4.0, you're welcome to take my diffs. It compiles but does not run. My BSD/OS 3.1 machine at home runs a hack of BISDN, sort of servicable but still too clumsy for day to day use unless you can live with some of the horrid assumptions it makes. I'm not aware of parallel efforts. Cheers, -- Bert -- Bert Driehuis, MIS -- bert_driehuis@nl.compuware.com -- +31-20-3116119 The grand leap of the whale up the Fall of Niagara is esteemed, by all who have seen it, as one of the finest spectacles in nature. -- Benjamin Franklin. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Wed Dec 16 21:56:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08580 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:56:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08560 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:56:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin@rumolt.teuto.de) Received: from rumolt.teuto.de (root@rumolt.teuto.de [212.8.203.81]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA03052; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:56:25 +0100 Received: from hwart (hwart.teuto.de [212.8.203.83]) by rumolt.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA01253; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:41:16 +0100 (MET) From: "Martin Husemann" To: , Cc: , Subject: RE: updates to i4b Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:41:16 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01be297f$dd30a250$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199812152153.WAA04884@oranje.my.domain> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Let's say I browse the web with netscape, often I have to > call up URL two times (first time to initiate a new connection, > second time to fetch the page) and after some time, I get > strange error messages. You do get varying IP numbers assigned by each dial-in? Yes, this is a problem. But a 'good' solution to this is still in discussion - the 'queue all outgoing packets until ipcp is up and then rewrite their addresses before sending them' could be called a hack, but hey, if its configurable, why not? This doesn't hurt that much with nearly any other stuff you'll be doing (tcp/ip copes with this), but nowadays most traffic is probably http... Martin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Thu Dec 17 01:48:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA01688 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:48:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from theoryx (theoryx.cs.uni-bonn.de [131.220.4.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA01414 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:48:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ignatios@theory.cs.uni-bonn.de) Received: from cauchy.cs.uni-bonn.de (cauchy [131.220.4.169]) by theoryx (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA03677; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:47:50 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ignatios@localhost) by cauchy.cs.uni-bonn.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02859; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:47:49 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981217104749.D2788@cs.uni-bonn.de> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:47:49 +0100 From: Ignatios Souvatzis To: Martin Husemann , van.woerkom@netcologne.de, eivind@yes.no Cc: garyj@muc.de, freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: updates to i4b Mail-Followup-To: Martin Husemann , van.woerkom@netcologne.de, eivind@yes.no, garyj@muc.de, freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199812152153.WAA04884@oranje.my.domain> <000f01be297f$dd30a250$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2i In-Reply-To: <000f01be297f$dd30a250$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de>; from Martin Husemann on Thu, Dec 17, 1998 at 06:41:16AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Dec 17, 1998 at 06:41:16AM +0100, Martin Husemann wrote: > > Let's say I browse the web with netscape, often I have to > > call up URL two times (first time to initiate a new connection, > > second time to fetch the page) and after some time, I get > > strange error messages. > > You do get varying IP numbers assigned by each dial-in? > > Yes, this is a problem. But a 'good' solution to this is still in > discussion - the 'queue all outgoing packets until ipcp is up and then > rewrite their addresses before sending them' could be called a hack, but > hey, if its configurable, why not? Uhm, won't this confuse _your_ end of TCP? -is To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Thu Dec 17 03:08:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09061 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:08:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.netcologne.de (mail2.netcologne.de [194.8.194.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA09047 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:08:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marc@netcologne.de) Received: from oranje.my.domain (dial-ra-nc1-8.netcologne.de [195.14.244.8]) by mail2.netcologne.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03827; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:08:07 +0100 (MET) X-Ncc-Regid: de.netcologne Received: (from marc@localhost) by oranje.my.domain (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA00437; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:08:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marc) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:08:53 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199812171108.MAA00437@oranje.my.domain> From: Marc van Woerkom To: martin@rumolt.teuto.de CC: van.woerkom@netcologne.de, eivind@yes.no, garyj@muc.de, freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <000f01be297f$dd30a250$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de> (martin@rumolt.teuto.de) Subject: Re: updates to i4b Reply-to: van.woerkom@netcologne.de Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You do get varying IP numbers assigned by each dial-in? Yep. > Yes, this is a problem. But a 'good' solution to this is still in > discussion - the 'queue all outgoing packets until ipcp is up and then > rewrite their addresses before sending them' could be called a hack, but > hey, if its configurable, why not? Right now I believe there is no flawless solution possible, without some cooperation from the ISPs side. I wish the IP address space would be larger (IP v6?) - but when will this be? Regards, Marc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Thu Dec 17 03:50:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA12722 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eharz001.nortel.co.uk (eharz001.nortel.co.uk [192.100.101.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA12717 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:50:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from barry.scott.tsbarry@nortel.co.uk) Received: from bhars221.europe.nortel.com (actually eharg1e1.nortel.co.uk) by eharz001.nortel.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:51:46 +0000 Received: from nnsgifd1.europe.nortel.com by bhars221.europe.nortel.com with SMTP (PP); Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:19:24 +0000 Received: by nnsgifd1.europe.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:23:05 -0000 Message-ID: <81C8165DD2A7D111AD700000F81F29CB025049EA@nwcwi19.europe.nortel.com> From: "Scott, Barry [MDN05:7E26:EXCH]" To: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cannot get i4b to work on FreeBSD 2.2.7 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:22:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have added I4B 0.63 to FreeBSD 2.2.7 with mixed results. I have a Sedlbauer Win Speed card. Having added to isic devices to the config the kernel boot and detects the card. But network on any device is broken. ping reports EPERM for any interface, even the ethernet cards interface. Having dug a little deeper into ping's sources I found the failing call is "sendto". I'll added printf's to sendit (called from sendto) in kernel/uipc_syscall.c which tells me that the error code returned from sendit is EACCES when it calls sosend. However if I build and install a kernel configure without the ISDN part (but from the same sources as above) ping works and all networking is fine. Has anyone seen this behaviour before? What did I get wrong. BArry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Thu Dec 17 04:24:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA18463 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:24:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA18453 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:24:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin@rumolt.teuto.de) Received: from rumolt.teuto.de (root@rumolt.teuto.de [212.8.203.81]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21769; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:24:01 +0100 Received: from hwart (hwart.teuto.de [212.8.203.83]) by rumolt.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA08916; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:54:50 +0100 (MET) From: "Martin Husemann" To: "Ignatios Souvatzis" , , Cc: , Subject: RE: updates to i4b Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:54:50 +0100 Message-ID: <001101be29b4$0d3ebca0$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <19981217104749.D2788@cs.uni-bonn.de> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Uhm, won't this confuse _your_ end of TCP? Yeah, for TCP it's probably best to drop the packet and wait for the retransmit, or generate some ICMP message (don't know), but I guess UDP is the main problem. Martin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Thu Dec 17 06:27:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02072 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:27:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uranus.factum-data.de (uranus.factum-data.de [195.238.147.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA02067 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:27:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from p@znet.de) Received: from pascal by uranus.factum-data.de with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0zqeOI-0005tt-00; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:26:58 +0100 Message-ID: <19981217152657.54149@uranus.factum-data.de> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:26:58 +0100 From: Pascal Gienger To: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Compiled i4b 00.63 under 3.0-RELEASE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I had to change /sys/conf/files (double if_sppp and md5) and there was a slight problem with prototypes at the result of yacc and lex, rc_parse.c (isdnd). Will the necessary changes be included in future versions of i4b? ;-) Or did I miss something and my changes were not really needed? Pascal -- p@znet.de Factum Data - A woman without a man http://pascal.znet.de/ Pascal Gienger - is like a fish without 5734900@skyper.de (Subj!) Inselg. 13, 78462 KN - a bicycle... http://echo.znet.de:8888/ echo \8888:ed.tenz.ohce\\:ptth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Thu Dec 17 11:32:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05433 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:32:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05424 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:32:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ernie!bert.kts.org!hm@ppp.net) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc2.ppp.net [194.64.12.42]) by mail.ppp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA07032; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:32:03 +0100 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0zqj9W-002ZjZC; Thu, 17 Dec 98 20:32 MET Received: from bert.kts.org([194.55.156.2]) (1631 bytes) by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with P:smtp/R:smart_host/T:uux (sender: ) id for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:12:48 +0100 (CET) (Smail-3.2.0.103 1998-Oct-9 #3 built 1998-Dec-9) Received: by bert.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:12:40 +0100 (CET) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #2 built 1998-Aug-25) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Compiled i4b 00.63 under 3.0-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <19981217152657.54149@uranus.factum-data.de> from Pascal Gienger at "Dec 17, 98 03:26:58 pm" To: p@znet.de (Pascal Gienger) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:12:39 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pascal Gienger wrote: > I had to change /sys/conf/files (double if_sppp and md5) and there was > a slight problem with prototypes at the result of yacc and lex, rc_parse.c > (isdnd). > > Will the necessary changes be included in future versions of i4b? ;-) I don't know if i will have the time to solve the md5 problem (and another one under 3.0-RELEASE) in an automated manner by a patch or so, but the Makefile problem (and others) in isdnd are - hopefully - cleanly solved in the i4b beta which will be released in a few days. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe We all live in a yellow subroutine, yellow subroutine, yellow subroutine ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Thu Dec 17 11:32:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05513 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:32:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05502 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:32:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ernie!bert.kts.org!hm@ppp.net) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc2.ppp.net [194.64.12.42]) by mail.ppp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA07036; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:32:04 +0100 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0zqj9X-002ZjZC; Thu, 17 Dec 98 20:32 MET Received: from bert.kts.org([194.55.156.2]) (1531 bytes) by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with P:smtp/R:smart_host/T:uux (sender: ) id for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:23:58 +0100 (CET) (Smail-3.2.0.103 1998-Oct-9 #3 built 1998-Dec-9) Received: by bert.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:23:52 +0100 (CET) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #2 built 1998-Aug-25) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Cannot get i4b to work on FreeBSD 2.2.7 In-Reply-To: <81C8165DD2A7D111AD700000F81F29CB025049EA@nwcwi19.europe.nortel.com> from "Scott, Barry [MDN05:7E26:EXCH]" at "Dec 17, 98 11:22:59 am" To: barry.scott.tsbarry@nortel.co.uk (Scott Barry [MDN05:7E26:EXCH]) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:23:52 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Scott, Barry [MDN05:7E26:EXCH] wrote: > I have added I4B 0.63 to FreeBSD 2.2.7 with mixed results. [ horror story deleted :-) ] > Has anyone seen this behaviour before? No. I'd suggest to wait a couple of days until the next i4b version is released where the PnP stuff and the Sedlbauer driver is much better integrated. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe We all live in a yellow subroutine, yellow subroutine, yellow subroutine ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Thu Dec 17 13:14:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17114 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:14:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from waterdragon.dds.nl (cs12p25.dial.cistron.nl [62.216.1.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17108 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:14:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nibo@cistron.nl) Received: from localhost (nibo@localhost) by waterdragon.dds.nl (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02724; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:44:32 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.dds.nl: nibo owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:44:32 +0100 (CET) From: Nico Bouthoorn X-Sender: nibo@localhost To: van.woerkom@netcologne.de cc: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: updates to i4b In-Reply-To: <199812152153.WAA04884@oranje.my.domain> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org DNS?, I've made a setup with my own named server and dns caching, if the connection is timed out I've also to call up the URL twice. I've a dynamic IP number instead of a fixed one. If I use the dns server of the ISP everything works fine I want to use this setup for a small office network. Nico On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Marc van Woerkom wrote: > Hi Eivind! > > > Mind telling us which hangs and how you deal with them? :-) > > I'm connected to my ISP via i4b's ppp. > i4b is configured to hang up after a certain idle time. > > Let's say I browse the web with netscape, often I have to > call up URL two times (first time to initiate a new connection, > second time to fetch the page) and after some time, I get > strange error messages. > > It could be a problem with my routing setup. > If I issue > > ifconfig isppp0 down > route delete default > /etc/rc.isdn stop > /etc/rc.isdn > > everything works fine again. > > I know this description is vague, so please tell me, what > information you need - I assume I have to turn on certain i4b > debugging flags. > > Regards, > Marc > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Thu Dec 17 13:58:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23518 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:58:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alvman.RoBIN.de (alvman.robin.de [193.174.7.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23499 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:58:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ah@alvman.RoBIN.de) Received: from localhost (ah@localhost) by alvman.RoBIN.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17022; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:57:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ah@alvman.RoBIN.de) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:57:23 +0100 (CET) From: Andreas Haakh To: Hellmuth Michaelis cc: FreeBSD ISDN mailinglist Subject: Re: Cannot get i4b to work on FreeBSD 2.2.7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > Scott, Barry [MDN05:7E26:EXCH] wrote: > > > I have added I4B 0.63 to FreeBSD 2.2.7 with mixed results. > > [ horror story deleted :-) ] > > > Has anyone seen this behaviour before? > > No. I'd suggest to wait a couple of days until the next i4b version is > released where the PnP stuff and the Sedlbauer driver is much better > integrated. Great !!! By the way: it's nice to see you back on this list!!! Andreas -- Andreas Haakh * Mollerstraße 7 * 64289 Darmstadt * ah@alvman.RoBIN.de http://www.RoBIN.de für privaten Internet-Zugang in Darmstadt/Rödermark http://www.FreeBSD.org freies Berkley-Unix für Intel-Architektur(>=80386). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Thu Dec 17 15:05:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01757 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:05:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA01752 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:05:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fldakota@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19981217222131.16007.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.181.150.64] by send102.yahoomail.com; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:21:31 PST Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:21:31 -0800 (PST) From: George Ellenburg Subject: Sugg. for Callback with BitSurfr Pro? To: isdn@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I sent the following message last week but have not received a response. If there is a better forum for this question, please let me know. Greetings. I am getting an ISDN line installed next week in my apartment, and while I am proficient in setting up ppp to dial-out using TAs (Motorola BitSurfr Pros). I am unclear, however, on how to handle call-back from the NAD (USRobotics TC Hub). Call Back is a requirement due to the per-minute charges imposed by BellSouth. My original thoughts were to use an expect script to log in with cu first in terminal mode, telnet into my USR boxes, initiate the "dial " command and use the pppd in FreeBSD to provide ppp service but after some thought unless I'm mistaken, that won't give ppp access to the O/S, just to that connection. The other alternative, and this is a procedure a colleage of mine is using with his WinNT box, is to disable DTR on the ISDN modem, log in with PPP, execute a script to disconnect the channel and force call back through the "dial " command in the USR chassis. Is there a better way? We use cistron-radius for authentication but I've never attempted to setup a radius entry call-back before - and am not quite sure even if it will work with the USRs. Also, does anyone have any experience with USR boxes and would it be possible to bond a second channel (preferably through call-back to avoid line charges)? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. George Ellenburg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Fri Dec 18 06:15:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA12647 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 06:15:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eharz001.nortel.co.uk (eharz001.nortel.co.uk [192.100.101.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA12636 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 06:15:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from barry.scott.tsbarry@nortel.co.uk) Received: from bhars221.europe.nortel.com (actually eharg1e1.nortel.co.uk) by eharz001.nortel.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:30:54 +0000 Received: from nnsgifd1.europe.nortel.com by bhars221.europe.nortel.com with SMTP (PP); Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:54:16 +0000 Received: by nnsgifd1.europe.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:57:05 -0000 Message-ID: <81C8165DD2A7D111AD700000F81F29CB025049EF@nwcwi19.europe.nortel.com> From: "Scott, Barry [MDN05:7E26:EXCH]" To: "'hm@kts.org'" Cc: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Cannot get i4b to work on FreeBSD 2.2.7 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:57:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org German Tischler wrote: > Perhaps you have a misconfigured firewall (default policy deny) ? The firewall is the problem. Since I wish to use NATD with I4B I configured both in the kernel. Last night I connect to my ISP, demon. Everything worked well. But I failed to get NAT working - thats a job for this evening. Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > No. I'd suggest to wait a couple of days until the next i4b version is > released where the PnP stuff and the Sedlbauer driver is much better > integrated. As soon as you release the new kit I'll happy switch over and test it out. BArry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Fri Dec 18 12:27:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26686 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:27:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from waterdragon.dds.nl (cs3p49.dial.cistron.nl [195.64.69.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26677 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:26:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nibo@cistron.nl) Received: from localhost (nibo@localhost) by waterdragon.dds.nl (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00567 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:36:41 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.dds.nl: nibo owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:36:40 +0100 (CET) From: Nico Bouthoorn X-Sender: nibo@localhost To: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: dialin W95 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Finally, I've made a setup for dialing in with W95 (ppp), but only if the ifconfig is in de debug mode. Does anyone have the same experience? (Freebsd 2.2.7 / Teles 16.3) Nico To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sat Dec 19 09:28:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27507 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:28:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from slarti.muc.de (slarti.muc.de [193.174.4.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27498 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:28:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from culem.muc.de!agc@culem.muc.de) Received: (qmail 9106 invoked by uid 66); 19 Dec 1998 17:25:12 -0000 Received: from culem by slarti with UUCP; 19 Dec 1998 17:25:12 -0000 (GMT) Received: by culem.muc.de (UUPC/extended 1.12k); Sat, 19 Dec 1998 13:50:19 -0500 Message-ID: <367bf56b.culem@culem.muc.de> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 98 13:50:16 -0500 From: Alexander Grundner-Culemann To: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] for OS/2 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe freebsd-isdn paraguay@i-dial.de -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sat Dec 19 12:19:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13140 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from castor2.freiepresse.de (castor2.freiepresse.de [194.25.232.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13019 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:19:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from G.Sittig@abo.FreiePresse.DE) Received: from speedy.gsinet (ppp-pln173.freiepresse.de [194.25.234.173]) by castor2.freiepresse.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA05838 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 21:17:08 +0100 (MET) Received: from speedy.gsinet (sittig@speedy.gsinet [192.168.10.129]) by speedy.gsinet (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA32738 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:07:17 +0100 Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:07:16 +0100 (CET) From: Gerhard Sittig X-Sender: sittig@speedy.gsinet cc: FreeBSD-ISDN Mailingliste Subject: Re: updates to i4b In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There was a discussion here lately about the first packets being dropped (or strictly speaking not being answered to correctly) which seems to apply to this case. Packets being generated when the connection is established get all the params right and cause no trouble. On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Nico Bouthoorn wrote: > DNS?, I've made a setup with my own named server and dns caching, > if the connection is timed out I've also to call up the URL twice. That's when the DNS query is handled locally and the HTTP requests causes the first packets to go out (and trigger dialing, which does a renegotiation of the addresses and invalidates the source address the packet already carries). > I've a dynamic IP number instead of a fixed one. That's the prerequisite to these kind of problems :) > If I use the dns server of the ISP everything works fine > I want to use this setup for a small office network. Then the DNS query triggers dialing and experiences the problem. The HTTP request sees an established connection. It always turns out to be the same scenario. The solution to this is the dynip patch (available for Linux, at least) which queues the triggering packets and resends them with the current IP address after IPCP negotiation took place. > > I'm connected to my ISP via i4b's ppp. > > i4b is configured to hang up after a certain idle time. > > > > Let's say I browse the web with netscape, often I have to > > call up URL two times (first time to initiate a new connection, > > second time to fetch the page) and after some time, I get > > strange error messages. Gerhard Sittig -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isdn Sat Dec 19 12:56:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16983 for freebsd-isdn-outgoing; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:56:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16976 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:56:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin@rumolt.teuto.de) Received: from rumolt.teuto.de (root@rumolt.teuto.de [212.8.203.81]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA29006; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 21:56:09 +0100 Received: from hwart (hwart.teuto.de [212.8.203.83]) by rumolt.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA01258; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 21:50:30 +0100 (MET) From: "Martin Husemann" To: "Gerhard Sittig" Cc: "FreeBSD-ISDN Mailingliste" Subject: RE: updates to i4b Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 21:50:29 +0100 Message-ID: <000101be2b91$363b70b0$53cb08d4@hwart.teuto.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The solution to this is the dynip > patch (available for Linux, at least) which queues the triggering > packets and resends them with the current IP address after IPCP > negotiation took place. This is not a "solution" but a hack (IMHO), and it's the thing we talked about right at the start of this discussion. There are subtle details, so a bit more discussion before adding this as an optional feature is OK, I think. Never copy linux implementation and call it design before undstanding the problem and all possible solutions and their implications! (No pun intended: this says nothing about either linux implementation or design, just about the "copy an existing implementation" substituting design work.) In the concrete example: the setups where I've met the problem always included some NAT functionality on the ISDN router. Since the local (caching) nameserver as well as the http-client are (at least logicaly) on the other side of the translation, a fine tuned integration between the NAT framework and the IPCP implementation could resolve this problems in a much cleaner way. At least at first lookt this seems possible. Martin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message