From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Nov 22 06:13:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11073 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 06:13:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11065 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 06:13:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.104]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981122141223.UETR10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:12:23 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:14:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Linux on Sparcs Platforms X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981122141223.UETR10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Visit these pages, maybe they could be interesting for you Linux on Sparc: http://www.geog.ubc.ca/s_linux.html Linux on Ultra: http://ultra.linux.cz/ Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Nov 22 06:13:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11095 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 06:13:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11068 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 06:13:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.104]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981122141235.UEUB10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:12:35 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:14:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: UnltraSparc CPU (Again...) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981122141235.UEUB10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Again on Ultra MotherBoards "clones"] I would know if someone here can tell me which are performance differences between Axi 270Mhz and AXi 300 Mhz. I've read the prices of these motherboards, and I'm wondering which one of this to buy... 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Nov 22 06:13:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11085 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 06:13:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11069 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 06:13:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.104]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981122141229.UETX10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:12:29 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:14:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Web] FreeBSD-Sparc site X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981122141229.UETX10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can we take control of these pages? http://www.freebsd.org/~obrien/freebsd-sparc/ How can we modify them? Can we add our documents/files in the ftp section? Does we need another site on the web, or can we use this one? What do you think? Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Nov 22 06:14:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11155 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 06:14:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep01-svc.tin.it (mta01-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11150 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 06:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.104]) by fep01-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981122141357.WEMZ21309.fep01-svc@winworkstation> for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:13:57 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:15:57 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Web] FreeBSD-Sparc site X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981122141357.WEMZ21309.fep01-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can we take control of these pages? http://www.freebsd.org/~obrien/freebsd-sparc/ How can we modify them? Can we add our documents/files in the ftp section? Does we need another site on the web, or can we use this one? What do you think? Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Nov 22 11:08:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02776 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:08:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02771 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:08:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15699; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:07:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19981122110720.A15669@nuxi.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:07:20 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Paolo Di Francesco Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Web] FreeBSD-Sparc site Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Can we take control of these pages? > http://www.freebsd.org/~obrien/freebsd-sparc/ Unless you have an account on www.freebsd.org how? I feel it is good to have them on www.freebsd.org. Once there is a little more meat, I will move them from my area to the main area so all the www.freebsd.org mirrors will have them. > How can we modify them? Send me (via email attachment or upload to my anonftp) either diffs or complete pages. I will then copy them to www.freebsd.org. > Can we add our documents/files in the ftp section? Most certainly. I would suggest that if the document/file "belongs" or is in posission of a freebsd-sparc'er that a copy is sent to me to put on www.freebsd.org to provide a mirror of where ever it lives. If the document belongs to Sun and is on their website, we probably shouldn't mirror it. IMHO, the Internet is very fragale these days with all the peering agreements (so packets are routed politically rather than technically) and everybody and their brother controling some router somewhere, reguardless of their knowledge. So I'm becoming a strong believer in mirror sites. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Nov 22 12:35:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09905 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 12:35:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rgate2.ricochet.net (rgate2.ricochet.net [204.179.143.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09897 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 12:35:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: from mg136-197.ricochet.net (mg136-197.ricochet.net [204.179.136.197]) by rgate2.ricochet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05874; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:34:46 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 12:33:22 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: Paolo Di Francesco cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UnltraSparc CPU (Again...) In-Reply-To: <19981122141235.UEUB10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > [Again on Ultra MotherBoards "clones"] > > I would know if someone here can tell me which are performance differences > between Axi 270Mhz and AXi 300 Mhz. I've read the prices of these motherboards, > and I'm wondering which one of this to buy... 8) The only difference is in CPU speed and L2 cache size; 270MHz vs 300MHz and 256KB vs 512KB. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Nov 22 15:34:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26177 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:34:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26165 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:34:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.234.184]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981122233305.WDQI10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:33:05 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:35:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary=Message-Boundary-14040 Subject: The LIST! X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981122233305.WDQI10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --Message-Boundary-14040 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Ok, we are in the last day of the weekend, and as I promised this is the list of developers.... There are 3 files: Intro, Old-Sparc and Ultra-Sparc. Intro -> Introduction Old-Sparc -> the old Sparc group Ultra-Sparc -> the Ultra Sparc group Actually, there's no "this guy is doing this" because, when you'll have a clearer idea of "What I want to do!" send me a message and I'll include near the name field a new "is doing" field. It will appear as: Name: SuperMan (superman@world.com) -> saving the world. Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ --Message-Boundary-14040 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Text from file 'Intro.txt' Sparc Developer List -------------------- Home of the FreeBSD-Sparc is mailing list: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG actual home page: http://www.freebsd.org/~obrien/freebsd-sparc/ Here there is the "complete" list of old-Sparc and Ultra Sparc developers. If you find some errors please contact me! Suggestions welcome! ;) Note 1: Aren't you in this list? Send me a private message and I'll include you immediately! Note 2: Do you want to "unsubscribe" from this list? Again, send me a message. author: Paolo Di Francesco email: paipai@tin.it --Message-Boundary-14040 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Text from file 'OldSparc.txt' Old-Sparc Developer List ------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Christoph Haas Name: Stefan Molnar Stefan Molnar Name: Lyndon Griffin Name: Mark Newton Name: Erik Cameron Name: Wes Peters Name : pfm@slack.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Christoph Haas Actively Dev: No Why: Not enough time and knowledge, but willing to learn by doing ;-) SPARC: SS4 Time: 2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Stefan Molnar Stefan Molnar Actively Dev: Tester? Why: I am not much of a coder, also I work at Sun Doing Solaris Stress Testing mainly alpha/beta versions of Solaris. Sparc: Sparc sun4c and sun4m Time: 5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Lyndon Griffin Actively Dev: Not currently Why: lack of experience Sparc: SparcStation 10, SparcStation 20, USparc, SPARCstation 330 (primary) Time: 3 Note : Prefer to develop/test for "old sparc," can also perform some limited testing on my production ultra ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name : Mark Newton Actively Dev: Not right now Why: No time, no UltraSPARC Sparc: Yup - sun4c architecture SPARCstation IPC (currently NetBSD) Time: 3 I only have old SPARC, but I think a priority should be uSPARC development. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Erik Cameron , Activeley Dev: not actively coding... Why: Learning neccesary skills to be of use in that dept. :) Currently working on building FreeBSD userland on top of OpenBSD 2.3/sparc kernel on a SparcStation IPX. Time: Flexible for time; gimme a 4 before standard deviation. Note: Will be working on "old sparcs." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Wes Peters Actively Dev: Willing to work on userland stuff, compiler tools, and TCP/IP networking code. Sparc: SPARCstation 5/170, and possibly UltraSPARC 5 Time: 2 Note: Yes. old-SPARC first, because I can afford one of those at home. ;^) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: pfm@slack.net Actively Dev: I can develop/port userland utilities and do some device driver work. I will just need either a place to start from (NetBSD/OpenBSD drivers?) or someone to work with in building them. I can also test on the Sun4m and probably Sun4u platform (hopefully) Sparc: I have a ss5 and a ss2, like I said above, I might be able to grab a few ultras. Time: 10-20 hours a week. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --Message-Boundary-14040 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Text from file 'UltraSparc.txt' Ultra-Sparc Developer List -------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Paolo Di Francesco (paipai@tin.it) Name: Rik Schneider (rik@deranged.schneider.org) Name: Lyndon Griffin Name: Joe Orthoefer Name: Alfred Perlstein Name: Nobuhiro Kurihara Name: "Fernando P. Schapachnik" Name: pfm@slack.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Paolo Di Francesco (paipai@tin.it) Actively Dev: No Why: No Sparc Hardware Sparc: No Time: 5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Rik Schneider (rik@deranged.schneider.org) Actively Dev: When I find Time Why: See Above SPARC: SS-1+ always (Mine, No services) SS-1000 I can experiment with for a few hours a week US-5 No more than 40mins per month Time: 2-3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Lyndon Griffin Actively Dev: Not currently Why: lack of experience Sparc: SparcStation 10, SparcStation 20, USparc, SPARCstation 330 (primary) Time: 3 Note : Prefer to develop/test for "old sparc," can also perform some limited testing on my production ultra ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Joe Orthoefer Activeley Dev: no. Why: Time constraints, lack of expertise, should have a block of time coming up in December, need to reorganize 4 years worth of files to get disk space on my freebsd boxes to get a stable developement environment for some cross tools/source repos. Sparc: My wife's Ultra 5. Plan to set things up to allow netbooting and to pull a serial cable over to my work area for a console... Time: Currently rate a 1, December may see 3. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Alfred Perlstein Activeley Dev: Yes going to start working on code in the next week. Sparc: Yes i have an ultra sparc Time: It's hard to say about time, i'll say very little time during the week, but most of the whole weekends. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Nobuhiro Kurihara Actively Dev: N/A Why: cannot promiss to continue the work due to bisiness trips, and others. Sparc: AX, AXi, AXmp, CP1500, and pthers Time: 3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: "Fernando P. Schapachnik" Actively Dev: No Why: No time, no box. Sparc: Yes (2 Ultra-1 167 Mhz) Time: 2 My boxes are productive servers. I can test userland code that can be run from Solaris, if such a thing exist. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: pfm@slack.net Actively Dev: I can develop/port userland utilities and do some device driver work. I will just need either a place to start from (NetBSD/OpenBSD drivers?) or someone to work with in building them. I can also test on the Sun4m and probably Sun4u platform (hopefully) Sparc: I have a ss5 and a ss2, like I said above, I might be able to grab a few ultras. Time: 10-20 hours a week. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --Message-Boundary-14040-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Nov 22 15:38:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26629 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:38:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26398 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:37:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.234.184]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981122233317.WDQX10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:33:17 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:35:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Web] FreeBSD-Sparc site In-reply-to: <19981122110720.A15669@nuxi.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981122233317.WDQX10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Can we take control of these pages? > > http://www.freebsd.org/~obrien/freebsd-sparc/ > > Unless you have an account on www.freebsd.org how? Contacting the author or someone who has it? ;) > I feel it is good to have them on www.freebsd.org. I think it too. 8) > Once there is a little more meat, > I will move them from my area to the main area so all > the www.freebsd.org mirrors will have them. > Ok, let's do it! > > > How can we modify them? > > Send me (via email attachment or upload to my anonftp) either diffs or > complete pages. I will then copy them to www.freebsd.org. > Ok, when we'll have more material, we'll put it on-line > > > Can we add our documents/files in the ftp section? > > Most certainly. I would suggest that if the document/file "belongs" or > is in posission of a freebsd-sparc'er that a copy is sent to me to put on > www.freebsd.org to provide a mirror of where ever it lives. Ok. > If the > document belongs to Sun and is on their website, we probably shouldn't > mirror it. We can link it... > IMHO, the Internet is very fragale these days with all the > peering agreements (so packets are routed politically rather than > technically) and everybody and their brother controling some router > somewhere, reguardless of their knowledge. So I'm becoming a strong > believer in mirror sites. I think mirrors are a good things, too. Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Nov 22 18:36:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA13709 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:36:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feral-gw.feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13703 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:36:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by feral-gw.feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07603; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:35:57 -0800 Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:35:57 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@feral-gw Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Paolo Di Francesco cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The LIST! In-Reply-To: <19981122233305.WDQI10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FWIW... Name: Matthew Jacob Actively Dev: Not really- see below. Why: I am completely overcommited and am promised to the FreeBSD/alpha port after the CAM work if I get any time at all. Will answer architecture and internals (solaris) questions (former Sun DDI group employee- actually did the Sun4 (4/470) solaris port as a DDI proof of concept port 7 years ago...). I will ensure that the SBus and PCI Qlogic 'isp' drivers work on sparc when you get that far. May end up doing a socal SBus driver for Linux so might do one for *BSD. If I get any spare time at all, might do a conjoint fas/esp HBA driver. Can maybe make available some testing resources. SPARC: sun4d, sun4m, sun4c, sun4u (PCI) Time: 0 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Nov 22 21:59:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00534 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:59:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from yang.vegamuse.org ([206.239.71.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00431 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:59:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sab@vegamuse.org) Received: from localhost (sab@localhost) by yang.vegamuse.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA05551; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:52:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from sab@yang.vegamuse.org) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:52:30 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Kiernan To: Paolo Di Francesco cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The LIST! In-Reply-To: <19981122233305.WDQI10970.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Name: Stephen Kiernan Actively Dev: Yes Why: I can work on pretty much anything we need to get done. Probably start with the work that was done previously on boot loading while others get the userspace working under NetBSD or similar. Sparc: Sparc sun4m and sun4u (Ultra 1 200MHz) Time: 5 -- Stephen Kiernan | FreeBSD 3.0 sab@vegamuse.org | Get it! Use it! http://www.freebsd.org/ kiernasj@connix.com | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Mon Nov 23 10:26:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15931 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:26:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.hq.tis.com (relay.hq.tis.com [192.94.214.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15861 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:26:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stevek@tis.com) Received: by relay.hq.tis.com; id NAA13969; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:32:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from clipper.hq.tis.com(10.33.1.2) by relay.hq.tis.com via smap (4.1) id xma013938; Mon, 23 Nov 98 13:31:14 -0500 Received: from mufasa.va.tis.com (mufasa.va.tis.com [192.168.10.18]) by clipper.hq.tis.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06896; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:20:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from stevek@localhost) by mufasa.va.tis.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07969; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:39:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from stevek) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:39:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811231839.NAA07969@mufasa.va.tis.com> From: Stephen Kiernan Reply-to: sab@vegamuse.org To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SPARC assembler references Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > I've just purchased a copy of "SPARC Architecture, Assembly Language > Programming, & C" by Richard P. Paul (Prentice Hall, ISBN 0-13-876889-7). > I'll be poking through it pretty extensively in the next week and a > half; I'll probably write a review for Amazon. I can post the review > here, too, if anyone is interested. I have a copy of this book, also. It's a fairly good read, although it does lack in explination of Supervisor Mode instructions. Get yourself a copy of "The SPARC Archtecture Manual, Version 9", David L. Weaver & Tom Germond - Editors (PTR Prentice Hall, ISBN 0-13-099227-5) for explination of how the SPARC-V9 processors work and other important information necessary for working deep in the kernel on a Sparc machine. -- Stephen J. Kiernan kiernasj@connix.com sab@vegamuse.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Mon Nov 23 13:59:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23101 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:59:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from set.scient.com ([208.29.209.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA23091 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:59:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: by set.scient.com; (5.65v4.0/1.3/10May95) id AA30297; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:57:30 -0800 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:56:25 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: Stephen Kiernan Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SPARC assembler references In-Reply-To: <199811231839.NAA07969@mufasa.va.tis.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I second the recommendation on "The SPARC Architecture Manual, Version 9". It's a well-written book that covers all the details, IMHO. On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Stephen Kiernan wrote: > On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > > I've just purchased a copy of "SPARC Architecture, Assembly Language > > Programming, & C" by Richard P. Paul (Prentice Hall, ISBN 0-13-876889-7). > > I'll be poking through it pretty extensively in the next week and a > > half; I'll probably write a review for Amazon. I can post the review > > here, too, if anyone is interested. > > I have a copy of this book, also. It's a fairly good read, although it > does lack in explination of Supervisor Mode instructions. Get yourself a > copy of "The SPARC Archtecture Manual, Version 9", David L. Weaver & Tom > Germond - Editors (PTR Prentice Hall, ISBN 0-13-099227-5) for explination > of how the SPARC-V9 processors work and other important information > necessary for working deep in the kernel on a Sparc machine. > > -- > Stephen J. Kiernan > kiernasj@connix.com > sab@vegamuse.org > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Mon Nov 23 15:14:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00680 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:14:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep02-svc.tin.it (mta02-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00675 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:14:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.234.72]) by fep02-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981123231359.RLGJ16980.fep02-svc@winworkstation> for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:13:59 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:16:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Code writers ONLY] Developer Kit X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981123231359.RLGJ16980.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This week I'm trying to understand which is the "developer kit", everything you must have in the desktop near to you ;) Please help me, so we can have an omogeneus environment. Note 1: this is not the Tester-kit. If you are not actively writing code (or you don't want to write it) skip this message. Thanks. Note 2: Suggestions? Send them to me or to Hardware -------- UltraSparc -> if you want to develop for the UltraSparc sub-group OldSparc -> if you want to develop for the old Sparc sub-group This box must be avaible (possibly) every our of the day, to test the latest kernel code or to write code, or to test something else. You must have it avaible to reset it every time you want. Floppy disk. This could be very usefull because we can do the boot using the floppy without writing ethernet code. VideoCard: I don't know... OBP: possibly the same version... but could be useful if we have different ones... More ideas? Software -------- Kernel 3.0 installed somewhere. Possibly another Operating system (Solaris, probably), and gcc installed on it. We must have the same version of gcc, because this could be a problem... Official compiler: I think gcc ver 2.7.x (suggestions?). Books ----- You need these books: For UltraSparc .... I don't know... suggestions? For Sparc .... I don't know... suggestions? On the Web ---------- http://www.sunhelp.com http://www.sun.com/microelectronics/SPARCengineUltraAXi/ http://www.csn.net/~bediger/sparc.tech.links.html >From the Linux Sparc (old and Ultra) project: http://www.geog.ubc.ca/s_linux.html http://ultra.linux.czwww.sunhelp.com Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Mon Nov 23 19:41:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28096 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:41:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from set.scient.com ([208.29.209.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA28091 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:41:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: by set.scient.com; (5.65v4.0/1.3/10May95) id AA18338; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:41:23 -0800 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:40:15 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: Paolo Di Francesco Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Code writers ONLY] Developer Kit In-Reply-To: <19981123231359.RLGJ16980.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > Hardware > -------- > > UltraSparc -> if you want to develop for the UltraSparc sub-group > OldSparc -> if you want to develop for the old Sparc sub-group > > This box must be avaible (possibly) every our of the day, to test the latest > kernel code or to write code, or to test something else. You must have it > avaible to reset it every time you want. > > Floppy disk. This could be very usefull because we can do the boot using the > floppy without writing ethernet code. > > VideoCard: I don't know... > > OBP: possibly the same version... but could be useful if we have different > ones... More ideas? > > Software > -------- > > Kernel 3.0 installed somewhere. Possibly another Operating system (Solaris, > probably), and gcc installed on it. We must have the same version of gcc, > because this could be a problem... > > Official compiler: I think gcc ver 2.7.x (suggestions?). I have the recommended (see the archives) tool chain for UltraSPARC (sparc64-elf) based on gcc-2.7.2 on my -current machine. I haven't had a chance to play with it much, so I'm not sure how useful it will be. It's what the last group was using for development. > Books > ----- > > You need these books: > > For UltraSparc Inc., SPARC International, David L. Weaver, Tom Germond "The SPARC Architecture Manual/Version 9" Prentice Hall 1994 ISBN 0-13-099227-5 > For Sparc Inc., SPARC International "The SPARC Architecture Manual/Version 8" Prentice Hall 1994 ISBN 0-13-825001-4 Useful for both: Lyle, James D. "SBus: Information, Applications, and Experience" Springer Verlag 1992 ISBN 0-387-97862-3 Shanley, Tom, Don Anderson "PCI System Architecture/3ed" Addison-Wesley Longman 1995 ISBN 0-201-40993-3 Drake, Chris, Kimberly Brown "Panic!: Unix System Crash Dump Analysis" Prentice Hall 1996 ISBN 0-13-101908-2 > On the Web > ---------- > > http://www.sunhelp.com > http://www.sun.com/microelectronics/SPARCengineUltraAXi/ > http://www.csn.net/~bediger/sparc.tech.links.html > > > >From the Linux Sparc (old and Ultra) project: > > http://www.geog.ubc.ca/s_linux.html > http://ultra.linux.czwww.sunhelp.com Don't neglect the following; they have specs on most (all?) the chips and CPUs used on newer Sun motherboards: http://www.sun.com/microelectronics/products/chipsets.html http://www.sun.com/microelectronics/products/modules.html http://www.sun.com/microelectronics/products/microproc.html You may need to dig around a little, but the data sheets and other docs are there. For anyone working on SBus, the following URL might be useful: http://www.troubadortech.com/sbus.html Buying the IEEE SBus spec would be useful, too. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Mon Nov 23 20:42:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04047 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:42:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04031 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:42:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA14887; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:46:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:46:15 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: cnielsen@pobox.com cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Code writers ONLY] Developer Kit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > I have the recommended (see the archives) tool chain for UltraSPARC > (sparc64-elf) based on gcc-2.7.2 on my -current machine. I haven't had a > chance to play with it much, so I'm not sure how useful it will be. It's > what the last group was using for development. > Is it unrealistic to try to build it under solaris? I'm a bit confused i had three different paths i thought about taking: a) compile under solaris (i have a spare disk in the same box and it would make it very easy if this is a feasable option) b) cross compile under freebsd, hard to test but i could use netbooting c) netbsd (this one is kinda not going to work as they don't have bootblocks and they have been quiet about developemnt) If i choose option 'a' do i need to make a cross compiler anyway being that solaris 2.6 is 32 bit? if so, i think i might as well do option 'b'. C seems a bit farfetched as i'd be porting netbsd instead of freebsd :) *cringing* d) under ultrapenguine? Only problem it seems is that for all the hype ultra penguine got it supports almost no hardware, not even serial ports, just gx graphics ( i have a creator ) and some odd ethernet chipset (i have hme, they don't) Thanks for your time, -Alfred > > -- > Christopher Nielsen > Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator > > cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Nov 24 06:11:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA26458 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:11:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA26452 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:11:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.237.46]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981124140921.JPEV22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation> for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:09:21 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:11:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Code writers ONLY] Developer Kit References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981124140921.JPEV22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Is it unrealistic to try to build it under solaris? I'm a bit > confused i had three different paths i thought about taking: Teorically, no. > a) compile under solaris (i have a spare disk in the same box and > it would make it very easy if this is a feasable option) > > b) cross compile under freebsd, hard to test but i could use > netbooting > > c) netbsd (this one is kinda not going to work as they don't have > bootblocks and they have been quiet about developemnt) > > If i choose option 'a' do i need to make a cross compiler anyway > being that solaris 2.6 is 32 bit? if so, i think i might as well > do option 'b'. > > C seems a bit farfetched as i'd be porting netbsd instead of freebsd > :) > > *cringing* > > d) under ultrapenguine? > > Only problem it seems is that for all the hype ultra penguine got > it supports almost no hardware, not even serial ports, just gx > graphics ( i have a creator ) and some odd ethernet chipset (i have > hme, they don't) > Ok, we are talking of Kernel, right? Kernel is an app, a particoular one, but it is an app. How to write a basic kernel or something similar to a kernel? The answer is: mainly using assembly code, then C code could be usefull. The real difference is you have not to link the code. You must use the same compiler you use for your applications, but with different flags. Nothing more nothing less. On intel, to boot something from a floppy you must put the object code "raw" on the floppy. On Sparc I think something similar. So you have to read a bootable disk (for example the Ultralinux) and then you'll know if it is pure assembly traduced in 010101 code or something like this. About paths. We can use A or D. Solaris is stable enough if we want to do serious works. D is good because we can test many things. I hope to have a bootable UltraLinux to see how it works. For example we can start reading the floppy image byte-after-byte and trying to reverse decode it. If the fist 100 byte (for example) are Sparc istructions we can assume that it works as I think. More infos, docs, welcome! About path B. This could be interesting for me, because I have no Ultra. So I could use crosscompiling on my Intel. But we have to compare the object codes what we have from the solaris gcc and what we have from the gcc/Intel/Crosscomp. Actually I think this could be and interesting issue.... I have downloaded gcc2.8. Today I'll see where it is different from 2.7.2 and if it's better than 2.7.2 for our purpose. 8) P.S. Tonight I'll download the Ultralinux boot disk (if I will find one) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Nov 24 12:01:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00254 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:01:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00246 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:01:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.237.20]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981124200123.LSAL22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:01:23 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: jbg@masterplan.org (Jason George) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:03:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Code writers ONLY] Developer Kit CC: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199811241648.JAA01185@gongshow.masterplan.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981124200123.LSAL22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Huh? Mainly using assembly code? Since when? Citing pages 22 and > 23 of "The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System" by > McKusick and others, > > "The software that is machine dependent includes > > o Low-level system-startup actions > > o Trap and fault handling > > o Low-level manipulation of the run-time context of a process > > o Configuration and initialization of hardware devices > > o Run-time support for I/O devices > > .. > I have this book too... It's the "red book" as I call it 8) I expressed myself not very well... What we are doind here is the BSD kernel, but I was talking of "another type of kernel". NOW, we have to experiment with boot process, and this means write many asm line which ARE NOT BSD kernel (maybe they will in the future...). So what I wanted to say it's if you put this lines of code together, then some C lines (which are not necessary for this experiment) you have something similar to our BSD kernel from the booting point of view. This is not a typical app, but something new, more similar to a kernel (from that point of view) because you don't execute this app as usual, writing its name or clicking on it under your preferred OperatingSystem because, there's no Operating System... 8) Hope this clarify... ;) > Virtually all the software in the kernel is written in the C programming > language; less than 2 percent is written in assembly language... [T]he > machine-dependent software, excluding HP/UX and device support, accounts > for a minuscule 6.9 percent of the kernel." > Yes, I read those statistics... > Now McKusick was referring to the HP300 port, and the exact percentages > will be different within this context, but the relative proportions > should remain fairly consistent given any other port. > This depends on the implementation. But I think we will be below the 10%...maybe below 5% > All you need assembly for is to setup the manipulation of the 5 points > listed above. Teorically, yes. For a minimal working kernel, yes. We can do a second step kernel in September 13th 1999 (when the Alpha station on the moon will be isolated from Earth... someone remembers?) doing some nice tricks with assebly code. >The assembly code is then wrapped in a C wrapper, and you > then forget about the assembly code. That's the design abstraction that > allows pretty much anything to be ported with the least amount of > effort. > Yes, I know. Good thing abstraction. 8) > I'm not trying to trivialize the low-level work to be done here. > Effective and efficient assembly is non-trivial to code, but we're not > writing some high-speed microkernel or executive here. We're writing, > heck, largely only _recoding_, an architecture for a different > implementation. > Can I repeat: I was NOT talking of our BSD kernel, but "something it's not an app and which is more similar to a kernel from our point of view" Thanks, for you patience. ^___^ P.S. This message is sent to FreeBSD-Sparc. Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Nov 24 15:31:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22799 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:31:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22767 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:31:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.237.72]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981124233142.MUQP22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation> for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:31:42 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:33:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Ultra] Where is the compiler? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981124233142.MUQP22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have read the Installation docs of gcc 2.8.0. No Ultra Sparc!?!?! What are you using to compile UltraSparc code? Where can I find it? Have we to write the compile code???? Please, indicate version, patch, "strange" files, etc... Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Nov 24 15:47:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24139 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:47:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA24134 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:47:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Asif.Haswarey@Eng.Sun.COM) Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail3 [129.144.170.5]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id PAA24273; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:47:17 -0800 Received: from ha3mpk.eng.sun.com (phys-ha3mpkb.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.19.31]) by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) with SMTP id PAA28557; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:47:14 -0800 Received: from order by ha3mpk.eng.sun.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id PAA26652; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:47:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811242347.PAA26652@ha3mpk.eng.sun.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:46:04 -0800 (PST) From: Asif Haswarey Reply-To: Asif Haswarey Subject: Re: [Ultra] Where is the compiler? To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, paipai@tin.it MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: j0+68XCjoUtJIgy2KsKMzA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Paolo, Do you mean the 64bit gcc support ? Regards. ________________________________________________________ Asif Haswarey W: (650)786-6126 Sun Microsystems, Inc. Desktop Systems Group asif.haswarey@sun.com x86126 asifhaswarey@hotmail.com > Comments: Authenticated sender is > From: "Paolo Di Francesco" > To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Subject: [Ultra] Where is the compiler? > X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > I have read the Installation docs of gcc 2.8.0. No Ultra Sparc!?!?! > > What are you using to compile UltraSparc code? Where can I find it? > Have we to write the compile code???? > > Please, indicate version, patch, "strange" files, etc... > > > Ciao Ciao > Paolo Di Francesco > _ > ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... > ~ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Nov 24 16:14:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28378 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:14:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28367 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:14:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA16065; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:17:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:17:10 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Paolo Di Francesco cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Where is the compiler? In-Reply-To: <19981124233142.MUQP22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org www.cygnus.com -> egcs :) settle down bro. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > > I have read the Installation docs of gcc 2.8.0. No Ultra Sparc!?!?! > > What are you using to compile UltraSparc code? Where can I find it? > Have we to write the compile code???? > > Please, indicate version, patch, "strange" files, etc... > > > Ciao Ciao > Paolo Di Francesco > _ > ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... > ~ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Nov 24 16:30:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00862 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:30:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from set.scient.com ([208.29.209.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA00857 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:30:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: by set.scient.com; (5.65v4.0/1.3/10May95) id AA28519; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:30:03 -0800 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:28:52 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: Paolo Di Francesco Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Where is the compiler? In-Reply-To: <19981124233142.MUQP22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > I have read the Installation docs of gcc 2.8.0. No Ultra Sparc!?!?! > > What are you using to compile UltraSparc code? Where can I find it? > Have we to write the compile code???? > > Please, indicate version, patch, "strange" files, etc... All of this information is in the archives for freebsd-sparc. Search for toolchain. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=2169+9084+/usr/local/www/db/text/1998/freebsd-sparc/19980712.freebsd-sparc -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Nov 24 17:29:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07827 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:29:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep02-svc.tin.it (mta02-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07820 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:29:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.237.12]) by fep02-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981125012852.XQNW16980.fep02-svc@winworkstation>; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:28:52 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, Alfred Perlstein Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:31:00 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Ultra] Where is the compiler? References: <19981124233142.MUQP22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981125012852.XQNW16980.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > www.cygnus.com -> egcs :) settle down bro. > Perfect, I'm downloading it... Well It's about 8MB, but I hope to resolve this problem. Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Nov 24 17:55:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10099 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:55:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from plaidsocks.com (c35486-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.1.70.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10089 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:55:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stefan@csudsu.com) Received: from localhost (stefan@localhost) by plaidsocks.com (8.8.8/1.3.2) with SMTP id RAA03479; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:55:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stefan@csudsu.com) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:55:00 -0800 (PST) From: Stefan Molnar X-Sender: stefan@c35486-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com To: Paolo Di Francesco cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Where is the compiler? In-Reply-To: <19981124233142.MUQP22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I normaly use devworkpro. Getting a licence for the project would be hard, but do able. One way to go, is create the sun4u port using 32bit. Sun did not release a 64bit solaris until a while ago. I see the bigest part I see is just getting support of the sun4u cpu set. Going after 64bit FreeBSD and sun4u at once will be too much to do for the amount of people that can code. That will give us a chance to come from the kiddie end of the pool to the part where we can wade safely. Stefan On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > > I have read the Installation docs of gcc 2.8.0. No Ultra Sparc!?!?! > > What are you using to compile UltraSparc code? Where can I find it? > Have we to write the compile code???? > > Please, indicate version, patch, "strange" files, etc... > > > Ciao Ciao > Paolo Di Francesco > _ > ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... > ~ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Nov 24 18:19:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12464 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:19:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gjp.erols.com (alex-va-n008c079.moon.jic.com [206.156.18.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12459 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:19:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) Received: from gjp.erols.com (localhost.erols.com [127.0.0.1]) by gjp.erols.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14483; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:19:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Stefan Molnar cc: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: [Ultra] Where is the compiler? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:55:00 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:19:27 -0500 Message-ID: <14479.911960367@gjp.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stefan Molnar wrote in message ID : > set. Going after 64bit FreeBSD and sun4u at once will be too much to do > for the amount of people that can code. FreeBSD is already 64bit clean in the kernel (for the DEC Alpha). I bet the above is really meant to imply ``going after 64bit support for library functions (such as read,write,mmap)'' rather than 64bit clean, but I thought I'd clear up any misunderstanding :) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Nov 25 05:58:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA05637 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:58:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA05632 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:58:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.234.203]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981125135802.QBDO22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation>; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:58:02 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, Alfred Perlstein Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:00:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Ultra] Compiler, again X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981125135802.QBDO22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok, I have started downloading egcs 1.1b and I hope tonight to finish this download. It's 8MB and with a "home" connection, well, it's not the best situation... 8( I hope to compile it and install the cross compiler. This could be very interesting. If you have some SMALL pieces of code you want to test, or already running on the Ultra, put it on-line somewhere (for example something which boots...) I will download them, so I'll try to cross-compile them and then we can compare ojects, mine and what you have from egcs1.1b directy from the Ultra compilation. I have downloaded something from the O'brien pages. The file name is src-981023.tar.gz and I don't know what _exactly_ is. There is no doc about "what I am, What I do", so I can compile it, but I don't know if it's useful. Please next time include some docs, just few lines... 8) P.S. Has someone else the egcs1.1b? Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Nov 25 07:00:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12369 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:00:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from susanna.deranged.schneider.org (susanna.deranged.schneider.org [207.126.69.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12364 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:00:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rik@deranged.schneider.org) Received: from localhost (rik@localhost) by susanna.deranged.schneider.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA20845; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:59:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rik@deranged.schneider.org) X-Authentication-Warning: susanna.deranged.schneider.org: rik owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:59:28 -0800 (PST) From: Rik Schneider To: Paolo Di Francesco cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: <19981125135802.QBDO22050.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've been using it for a while under Solaris and *BSD as my primary native compiler for almost everything. I'm building a cross compilera and assem at this time. On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > Ok, I have started downloading egcs 1.1b and I hope tonight to finish this > download. It's 8MB and with a "home" connection, well, it's not the best > situation... 8( > > I hope to compile it and install the cross compiler. This could be very > interesting. If you have some SMALL pieces of code you want to test, or already > running on the Ultra, put it on-line somewhere (for example something which > boots...) I will download them, so I'll try to cross-compile them and then we > can compare ojects, mine and what you have from egcs1.1b directy from the Ultra > compilation. > > I have downloaded something from the O'brien pages. The file name is > src-981023.tar.gz and I don't know what _exactly_ is. There is no doc about > "what I am, What I do", so I can compile it, but I don't know if it's > useful. Please next time include some docs, just few lines... 8) > > P.S. Has someone else the egcs1.1b? > > > Ciao Ciao > Paolo Di Francesco > _ > ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... > ~ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Nov 25 09:36:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23600 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:36:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA23593 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:36:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Asif.Haswarey@Eng.Sun.COM) Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail4 [129.144.134.6]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id JAA17415; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:36:04 -0800 Received: from ha3mpk.eng.sun.com (phys-ha3mpkb.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.19.31]) by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) with SMTP id JAA07144; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:36:02 -0800 Received: from order by ha3mpk.eng.sun.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id JAA18374; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:36:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811251736.JAA18374@ha3mpk.eng.sun.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:34:51 -0800 (PST) From: Asif Haswarey Reply-To: Asif Haswarey Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, bright@hotjobs.com, paipai@tin.it MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: Sx1QkGkFBBh2+fXI+9wOgQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Paolo, I have egcs1.1b....I am in the process of compiling it. I have a: SunOS order 5.7 Generic sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-1 I get an error message when I do make LANGUAGES="c c++": --- make all-recursive --- Making all in intl --- Making all in lib --- mksh: Fatal error in reader: = missing from replacement macro reference --- Current working directory /usr/local/src/lang/egcs-1.1b/texinfo/lib --- *** Error code 1 --- make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `all-recursive' --- Current working directory /usr/local/src/lang/egcs-1.1b/texinfo --- *** Error code 1 --- make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `all-recursive-am' --- Current working directory /usr/local/src/lang/egcs-1.1b/texinfo --- *** Error code 1 --- make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `all-texinfo' By-the-way, I have texinfo installed and working. And the challenge goes on! -Asif > > I have downloaded something from the O'brien pages. The file name is > src-981023.tar.gz and I don't know what _exactly_ is. There is no doc about > "what I am, What I do", so I can compile it, but I don't know if it's > useful. Please next time include some docs, just few lines... 8) > > P.S. Has someone else the egcs1.1b? > > > Ciao Ciao > Paolo Di Francesco > _ > ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... > ~ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Nov 25 09:49:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24658 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:49:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rachel (mail.glenatl.glenayre.com [157.230.160.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA24653 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:49:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhicks@glenatl.glenayre.com) Received: from jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com by rachel (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA02232; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:39:52 -0500 Received: from jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00350; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:39:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811251739.MAA00350@jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Asif Haswarey cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, bright@hotjobs.com, paipai@tin.it Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:34:51 PST." <199811251736.JAA18374@ha3mpk.eng.sun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:39:51 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You need a newer version of makeinfo than FreeBSD's to build egcs-1.1b Build the newest texinfo distribution from prep.ai.mit.edu and make sure that the newly installed makeinfo comes first in your path. Good Luck, Jerry Hicks jerry.hicks@glenayre.com > Paolo, > > I have egcs1.1b....I am in the process of compiling it. > I have a: > SunOS order 5.7 Generic sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-1 > I get an error message when I do make LANGUAGES="c c++": > > --- make all-recursive > --- Making all in intl > --- Making all in lib > --- mksh: Fatal error in reader: = missing from replacement macro reference > --- Current working directory /usr/local/src/lang/egcs-1.1b/texinfo/lib > --- *** Error code 1 > --- make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `all-recursive' > --- Current working directory /usr/local/src/lang/egcs-1.1b/texinfo > --- *** Error code 1 > --- make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `all-recursive-am' > --- Current working directory /usr/local/src/lang/egcs-1.1b/texinfo > --- *** Error code 1 > --- make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `all-texinfo' > > By-the-way, I have texinfo installed and working. > > And the challenge goes on! > -Asif > > > > > I have downloaded something from the O'brien pages. The file name is > > src-981023.tar.gz and I don't know what _exactly_ is. There is no doc about > > "what I am, What I do", so I can compile it, but I don't know if it's > > useful. Please next time include some docs, just few lines... 8) > > > > P.S. Has someone else the egcs1.1b? > > > > > > Ciao Ciao > > Paolo Di Francesco > > _ > > ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... > > ~ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Nov 25 10:50:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28573 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:50:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ncc-ws04.iconnet.net (ncc-ws04.IConNet.NET [199.173.160.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28562 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:50:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuck@iconnet.net) Received: from localhost (chuck@localhost) by ncc-ws04.iconnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA22186; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:49:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: ncc-ws04.iconnet.net: chuck owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:49:56 -0500 (EST) From: chuck X-Sender: chuck@ncc-ws04 To: Asif Haswarey cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, bright@hotjobs.com, paipai@tin.it Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: <199811251736.JAA18374@ha3mpk.eng.sun.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Use GNU make. Chuck Youse - Icon CMT Network Operations Center chuck@iconnet.net On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Asif Haswarey wrote: > Paolo, > > I have egcs1.1b....I am in the process of compiling it. > I have a: > SunOS order 5.7 Generic sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-1 > I get an error message when I do make LANGUAGES="c c++": > > --- make all-recursive > --- Making all in intl > --- Making all in lib > --- mksh: Fatal error in reader: = missing from replacement macro reference > --- Current working directory /usr/local/src/lang/egcs-1.1b/texinfo/lib > --- *** Error code 1 > --- make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `all-recursive' > --- Current working directory /usr/local/src/lang/egcs-1.1b/texinfo > --- *** Error code 1 > --- make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `all-recursive-am' > --- Current working directory /usr/local/src/lang/egcs-1.1b/texinfo > --- *** Error code 1 > --- make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `all-texinfo' > > By-the-way, I have texinfo installed and working. > > And the challenge goes on! > -Asif > > > > > I have downloaded something from the O'brien pages. The file name is > > src-981023.tar.gz and I don't know what _exactly_ is. There is no doc about > > "what I am, What I do", so I can compile it, but I don't know if it's > > useful. Please next time include some docs, just few lines... 8) > > > > P.S. Has someone else the egcs1.1b? > > > > > > Ciao Ciao > > Paolo Di Francesco > > _ > > ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... > > ~ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Nov 25 11:21:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01208 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:21:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rachel (mail.glenatl.glenayre.com [157.230.160.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA01200 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:20:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhicks@glenatl.glenayre.com) Received: from jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com by rachel (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA05064; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:11:44 -0500 Received: from jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00633; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:11:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811251911.OAA00633@jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chuck cc: Asif Haswarey , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, bright@hotjobs.com, paipai@tin.it Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:49:56 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:11:42 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Use GNU make. > > > Chuck Youse - Icon CMT Network Operations Center > chuck@iconnet.net > Definitely good advice! I have the full complement of GNU tools installed on my Solaris box and also have the search path ordered so they are found first. texinfo-3.12 compiled and installed without any complaints. It took me the better part of a day to get everything built, but I'd really recommend that you do this too. Unfortunately, the prebuilt binary packages at http://www.sunfreeware.com seem to be a tad stale, or you could load them from there. ISTR some RPM initiative for Solaris? Meanwhile, I'm going to take a crack at getting egcs-1.1b cross-compiling from x86 FreeBSD. The recent RTEMS-4.0.0 release uses EGCS and there may be some wisdom embedded in their patches and scripts. We'll see ;-) Good Luck, Jerry Hicks Jerry.Hicks@glenayre.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Nov 25 16:39:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04436 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:39:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04428 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:38:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA20036; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:08:45 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA12483; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:08:43 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981126110842.D67961@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:08:42 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Jerry Hicks , chuck Cc: Asif Haswarey , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, bright@hotjobs.com, paipai@tin.it Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <199811251911.OAA00633@jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811251911.OAA00633@jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com>; from Jerry Hicks on Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 02:11:42PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Format autorecovered at freebie.lemis.com] On Wednesday, 25 November 1998 at 14:11:42 -0500, Jerry Hicks wrote: > Chuck Youse - Icon CMT Network Operations Center wrote: >> Use GNU make. > > Definitely good advice! I prefer GNU make to BSD make, but it's still not good advice. FreeBSD uses BSD make, and if we start requiring two different makes to build the product, we're going to have both procedural trouble and lots of resistance from the core team. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Nov 26 10:04:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19515 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:04:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19500 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:03:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA25765; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:03:53 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id TAA05989; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:03:51 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981126190350.A5905@follo.net> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:03:50 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: eddy@isi.edu, Paolo Di Francesco Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What we need References: <19981117191810.ELJR23830.fep03-svc@winworkstation> <13905.54709.543764.312267@kit.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <13905.54709.543764.312267@kit.isi.edu>; from eddy@isi.edu on Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 12:06:50PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 12:06:50PM -0800, eddy@isi.edu wrote: > A previous email mentioned the avenue of getting freebsd userland > running on a sparc/netbsd kernel. would this be a significant > benifiet? if so, i can spend some time doing this. I believe it would be of significant benefit, yes. It would allow the FreeBSD kernel porters to have a pre-made set of binaries to test with, and would allow parts of the porting to progress in parallel. It probably isn't as much work now as it was for the Alpha port - most of the bogons should be out, and we have already built under NetBSD on a 64-bit platform once. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Nov 26 11:15:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25676 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:15:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu (delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu [128.135.5.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25670 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:15:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ecameron@delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu) Received: (from ecameron@localhost) by delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA05750; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:14:55 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981126131454.A5740@bsd.uchicago.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:14:54 -0600 From: Erik Cameron To: Eivind Eklund , eddy@ISI.EDU, Paolo Di Francesco Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What we need References: <19981117191810.ELJR23830.fep03-svc@winworkstation> <13905.54709.543764.312267@kit.isi.edu> <19981126190350.A5905@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981126190350.A5905@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Thu, Nov 26, 1998 at 07:03:50PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The real problem I've found with this is is the (relatively) large amount of assembly code involved in building libc; libc being the first thing to work on, IMHO. -e On Thu, Nov 26, 1998 at 07:03:50PM +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 12:06:50PM -0800, eddy@isi.edu wrote: > > A previous email mentioned the avenue of getting freebsd userland > > running on a sparc/netbsd kernel. would this be a significant > > benifiet? if so, i can spend some time doing this. > > I believe it would be of significant benefit, yes. It would allow the > FreeBSD kernel porters to have a pre-made set of binaries to test > with, and would allow parts of the porting to progress in parallel. > It probably isn't as much work now as it was for the Alpha port - most > of the bogons should be out, and we have already built under NetBSD on > a 64-bit platform once. > > Eivind. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message -- erik cameron -- bsd/is support services support engineer, unix frood, sysadmin, etc. ecameron@bsd.uchicago.edu | karl is silly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Nov 26 12:02:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29565 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:02:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29519 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:01:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA16072; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:06:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199811262006.HAA16072@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: What we need In-Reply-To: <19981126131454.A5740@bsd.uchicago.edu> from Erik Cameron at "Nov 26, 98 01:14:54 pm" To: ecameron@bsd.uchicago.edu (Erik Cameron) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:06:57 +1100 (EST) Cc: eivind@yes.no, eddy@ISI.EDU, paipai@tin.it, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Erik Cameron wrote: > > The real problem I've found with this is is the (relatively) large > amount of assembly code involved in building libc; libc being the > first thing to work on, IMHO. There are actually only a few (simple?) bits of assembly code that libc requires. A lot of the assembly code in libc on i386 is for performance, but there are C equivalents that are used if the assembly code is not available. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Nov 26 12:07:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00397 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:07:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gjp.erols.com (alex-va-n008c079.moon.jic.com [206.156.18.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00391 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:07:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) Received: from gjp.erols.com (localhost.erols.com [127.0.0.1]) by gjp.erols.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA28782; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:07:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Erik Cameron cc: Eivind Eklund , eddy@ISI.EDU, Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: What we need In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:14:54 CST." <19981126131454.A5740@bsd.uchicago.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:07:08 -0500 Message-ID: <28778.912110828@gjp.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Erik Cameron wrote in message ID <19981126131454.A5740@bsd.uchicago.edu>: > > The real problem I've found with this is is the (relatively) large > amount of assembly code involved in building libc; libc being the > first thing to work on, IMHO. >From memory, half the assembly stuff in libc is optimized versions of speed-critical components (ntohl,bcopy, etc). I seem to remember their being C versions as well. This isn't true for everything (such as the syscall interface), but it cuts down on the ammount of work that needs to be done. A bunch of the .S files you see being compiled/assembled when you make libc are syscall veneers that are machine generated from a single copy of the file. So, yes, assembly is required to build libc, but not as much as you might think. And to be perfectly honest, the biggest hurdle is going to be the kernel, not libc, and I think thats where your focus should be. You can boot and debug a kernel without ever needing a libc. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Nov 26 12:19:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01312 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:19:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu (delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu [128.135.5.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01305; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:19:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ecameron@delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu) Received: (from ecameron@localhost) by delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id OAA06216; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:19:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981126141915.B6011@bsd.uchicago.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:19:15 -0600 From: Erik Cameron To: Gary Palmer Cc: Eivind Eklund , eddy@ISI.EDU, Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What we need References: <19981126131454.A5740@bsd.uchicago.edu> <28778.912110828@gjp.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <28778.912110828@gjp.erols.com>; from Gary Palmer on Thu, Nov 26, 1998 at 03:07:08PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On the subject of getting a booting kernel, I agree... As far as getting userland working and compiled, though, libc is pretty important... :) Which is what we were discussing. I agree that a booting kernel would be of far more use, but everybody's gotta do something... What's your feeling on crosscompiling from a FreeBSD/intel machine? -e On Thu, Nov 26, 1998 at 03:07:08PM -0500, Gary Palmer wrote: > Erik Cameron wrote in message ID > <19981126131454.A5740@bsd.uchicago.edu>: > > > > The real problem I've found with this is is the (relatively) large > > amount of assembly code involved in building libc; libc being the > > first thing to work on, IMHO. > > From memory, half the assembly stuff in libc is optimized versions of > speed-critical components (ntohl,bcopy, etc). I seem to remember their being C > versions as well. This isn't true for everything (such as the syscall > interface), but it cuts down on the ammount of work that needs to be done. > A bunch of the .S files you see being compiled/assembled when you make libc > are syscall veneers that are machine generated from a single copy of the file. > So, yes, assembly is required to build libc, but not as much as you might > think. And to be perfectly honest, the biggest hurdle is going to be the > kernel, not libc, and I think thats where your focus should be. You can boot > and debug a kernel without ever needing a libc. > > Gary > -- > Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member > FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info > > -- erik cameron -- bsd/is support services support engineer, unix frood, sysadmin, etc. ecameron@bsd.uchicago.edu | karl is silly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Nov 26 22:06:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14123 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14115; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:06:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA27944; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 01:06:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 01:06:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Erik Cameron cc: Gary Palmer , Eivind Eklund , eddy@ISI.EDU, Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What we need In-Reply-To: <19981126141915.B6011@bsd.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 26 Nov 1998, Erik Cameron wrote: > On the subject of getting a booting kernel, I agree... As far as > getting userland working and compiled, though, libc is pretty > important... :) Which is what we were discussing. I agree that a > booting kernel would be of far more use, but everybody's gotta do > something... Actually I wouldn't mind seeing a supported method of running the FreeBSD userland on any given NetBSD kernel under any random arch. This would satisfy 90% of the issues I have that lead to "if only FreeBSD ran on X." This, of course, is even more unlikely than a full port to a new arch given the nature of moving targets. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 06:03:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22350 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:03:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22344 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:03:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.234.173]) by fep04-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981126012503.TTRF23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:25:03 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:27:21 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-reply-to: <19981126110842.D67961@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199811251911.OAA00633@jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com>; from Jerry Hicks on Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 02:11:42PM -0500 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981126012503.TTRF23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > [Format autorecovered at freebie.lemis.com] > > On Wednesday, 25 November 1998 at 14:11:42 -0500, Jerry Hicks wrote: > > Chuck Youse - Icon CMT Network Operations Center wrote: > >> Use GNU make. > > > > Definitely good advice! > I prefer GNU make to BSD make, but it's still not good advice. > FreeBSD uses BSD make, and if we start requiring two different makes > to build the product, we're going to have both procedural trouble and > lots of resistance from the core team. Well, onestly I don't know.... Can someone contact a member of the freeBSD core team? Personally I don't think we'll have problems about this. We need something to compile our (internal) code to do experiments and to build a kernel. We can use Solaris or another OperatingSystem+compiler, the important thing is that we must have an UltraSparc compiler. If we cannot do compiling using the gcc, well we have no choose, we must use egcs. In the future, we can use gcc if it will support UltraSparc, but now no egcs no UltraFreeBSD. For the userland maybe we will have more problems. Anything will be compiled with egcs if gcc does not support Ultra, and this means we cannot distribute sources and the compiler, because we must use gcc for the userland. (I think) I'm trying to install egcs on my Intel box, and compile it as crosscompiler. I hope to have it installed tomorow. (I'm cold, sorry.. 8((( ) P.S. Do experiments, use anything you want! But please document it! 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 06:04:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22391 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:04:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22376 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:04:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.234.221]) by fep04-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981127005902.ZRNI23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 01:59:02 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 02:01:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Interesting page on the net X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981127005902.ZRNI23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have found an interesting page: http://www.sunworld.com/swol-10-1995/swol-10-openboot.html It's about OpenBoot. I know many of you are familiar with OpenBoot, but I have no knowledge of Sparc Hardware, so I find it interesting. 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 06:05:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22457 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:05:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep05-svc.tin.it (pop01-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22450 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:05:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.234.241]) by fep04-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981126214117.YZRL23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:41:17 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:43:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [OT] Hey Where are my messages? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981126214117.YZRL23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think I'm missing some message from this list. I have posted a message yesterday and I have not seen it on the list. Moreover, the only messages I'm receiving are copies (messages sent to freebsd-sparc AND to my personal e-mail address). How to fix this? I'm subscribing again so, if you want send me a message because you think it was very important, do it! How can I read the messages from mirrors or from the www? P.S. Send reply directy to me, please! 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 06:43:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA26308 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:43:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rgate.ricochet.net (rgate1.ricochet.net [204.179.143.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA26303 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:43:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: from mg130-076.ricochet.net (mg130-076.ricochet.net [204.179.130.76]) by rgate.ricochet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA01755; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:42:20 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:41:48 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: Paolo Di Francesco cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: <19981126012503.TTRF23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 26 Nov 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > > I prefer GNU make to BSD make, but it's still not good advice. > > FreeBSD uses BSD make, and if we start requiring two different makes > > to build the product, we're going to have both procedural trouble and > > lots of resistance from the core team. I agree emphatically with staying with BSD make. This -is- BSD that we're porting after all. Starting down the path of gmake will only make it more difficult later. > In the future, we can use gcc if it will support UltraSparc, but now > no egcs no UltraFreeBSD. For the userland maybe we will have more > problems. Anything will be compiled with egcs if gcc does not support > Ultra, and this means we cannot distribute sources and the compiler, > because we must use gcc for the userland. (I think) gcc supports sparc64-elf. I have gcc-2.7.2 built as a cross-compiler for sparc64-elf (actually, I have the entire toolchain built). FreeBSD is still using gcc-2.7.x as a compiler, so it probably won't be too difficult to integrate sparc64 support. I'll see if I can throw together some documentation by the end of the weekend on how to build the toolchain. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 06:59:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA27269 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:59:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA27261; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199811271459.GAA27261@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: [OT] Hey Where are my messages? In-Reply-To: <19981126214117.YZRL23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> from Paolo Di Francesco at "Nov 26, 98 10:43:35 pm" To: paipai@tin.it (Paolo Di Francesco) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:59:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org which message? i just checked the mail rejects....nothing from you rejected by the spam filters. can you provide some information such as message-id or subject line? jmb Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > I think I'm missing some message from this list. I have posted a message > yesterday and I have not seen it on the list. > Moreover, the only messages I'm receiving are copies (messages sent to > freebsd-sparc AND to my personal e-mail address). > > How to fix this? I'm subscribing again so, if you want send me a message > because you think it was very important, do it! > > > How can I read the messages from mirrors or from the www? > > P.S. Send reply directy to me, please! 8) > > > Ciao Ciao > Paolo Di Francesco > _ > ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... > ~ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 08:43:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06247 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:43:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06242 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:43:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA39464; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:46:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:46:26 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: cnielsen@pobox.com cc: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > > > I prefer GNU make to BSD make, but it's still not good advice. > > > FreeBSD uses BSD make, and if we start requiring two different makes > > > to build the product, we're going to have both procedural trouble and > > > lots of resistance from the core team. > > I agree emphatically with staying with BSD make. This -is- BSD that we're > porting after all. Starting down the path of gmake will only make it more > difficult later. *nod* > > > In the future, we can use gcc if it will support UltraSparc, but now > > no egcs no UltraFreeBSD. For the userland maybe we will have more > > problems. Anything will be compiled with egcs if gcc does not support > > Ultra, and this means we cannot distribute sources and the compiler, > > because we must use gcc for the userland. (I think) > > gcc supports sparc64-elf. I have gcc-2.7.2 built as a cross-compiler for > sparc64-elf (actually, I have the entire toolchain built). FreeBSD is > still using gcc-2.7.x as a compiler, so it probably won't be too difficult > to integrate sparc64 support. > > I'll see if I can throw together some documentation by the end of the > weekend on how to build the toolchain. I've been pulling my hair out trying to do this, i downloaded the source rpms like you suggested... they both come with several patches which i applied, but then it got all confusing. Basically, each source rpm comes with a huge patchfile along with several other patch files, the huge patchfile i apply in the directory above the source tree, and it patches the source tree, however it also makes a directory where there are duplicate files of the tree. If i merge this directory into the extracted directory then configure/compile it seems to work as then the binutils compiled fine, however i think i messed up the flags i ghave to configure because while this "method" of building worked for binutils, it seems that the same flags passed to configure for gcc produce an empty makefile. :( I was hoping to make a pkg but I can't seem figure this out. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 10:38:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14944 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:38:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep04-svc.tin.it (mta04-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14939 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:38:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.237.7]) by fep04-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981127183748.EERI23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:37:48 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:40:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981127183748.EERI23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > I agree emphatically with staying with BSD make. This -is- BSD that we're > > porting after all. Starting down the path of gmake will only make it more > > difficult later. > > *nod* > What is nod? 8) [toolchain] > > I've been pulling my hair out trying to do this, i downloaded the source > rpms like you suggested... they both come with several patches which i > applied, but then it got all confusing. > Basically, each source rpm comes with a huge patchfile along with several > other patch files, the huge patchfile i apply in the directory above the > source tree, and it patches the source tree, however it also makes a > directory where there are duplicate files of the tree. > If i merge this directory into the extracted directory then > configure/compile it seems to work as then the binutils compiled fine, > however i think i messed up the flags i ghave to configure because while > this "method" of building worked for binutils, it seems that the same > flags passed to configure for gcc produce an empty makefile. :( > I was hoping to make a pkg but I can't seem figure this out. We need a "black box". Something you put the kernel code in and you obtain the kernel out. +-----------+ | | Kernel code --> | Black Box | --> kernel | | +-----------+ So, if someone is using this "black box" please put it on-line somewhere or tell us how to oabtain it. Another problem is what to use for this "black box". Someone is using the toolchain, someone is waiting (like me) for a good crosscompiling enviornment, so if you have suggestions please tell us what to do! [I have an Intel-box, no Ultra] Please note we have no compatibility constrains about experiments, and for the gcc version, when will ship with the freebsd-sparc who knows what version of gcc we'll include... maybe 2.9, maybe 3.0, maybe 10.0 ;) So what about using gcc2.8 or newer version? The important thing is to have the easiest "black box". (easiest means, the easiest way of building it...) Another important thing is to have specific "black boxes". I mean we can use many different enviornment, but everyone of them must be "well fixed". For example: Black-box #1: running on i386, used gcc2.7.2 + toolchain, etc Black-box #2: running on i386, used gcc2.8 + ???? Black-box #3: running on i386, used egcs1.1b + ???? Black-box #4: running on i386, used gccX.Y.Z and emulator under i386 + Solaris bin...etc... Black-box #5: running on USparc, using gccX.Y.Z ... ... ... Let me underline it again: we need packaged things so we can do experiments plugging-in different black-boxes, and playing with code easly! 8) If you don't help in this there will be not so many kernel developers here...8( Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 10:38:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14965 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:38:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep04-svc.tin.it (mta04-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14928 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:37:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.237.7]) by fep04-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981127183741.EERD23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:37:41 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:40:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981127183741.EERD23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Thu, 26 Nov 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > > > > I prefer GNU make to BSD make, but it's still not good advice. > > > FreeBSD uses BSD make, and if we start requiring two different makes > > > to build the product, we're going to have both procedural trouble and > > > lots of resistance from the core team. > I agree emphatically with staying with BSD make. This -is- BSD that we're > porting after all. Starting down the path of gmake will only make it more > difficult later. I don't know. Comments from freebsd-core team? Differences using the BSD make? Problems? 8( > > In the future, we can use gcc if it will support UltraSparc, but now > > no egcs no UltraFreeBSD. For the userland maybe we will have more > > problems. Anything will be compiled with egcs if gcc does not support > > Ultra, and this means we cannot distribute sources and the compiler, > > because we must use gcc for the userland. (I think) > gcc supports sparc64-elf. I have gcc-2.7.2 built as a cross-compiler for > sparc64-elf (actually, I have the entire toolchain built). FreeBSD is > still using gcc-2.7.x as a compiler, so it probably won't be too difficult > to integrate sparc64 support. Ok, how? 8) > I'll see if I can throw together some documentation by the end of the > weekend on how to build the toolchain. Please, do it! Just few questions: 1) do we really need the toolchain? I have downloaded gcc2.8 and I found this in the Install file Configurations Supported by GNU CC ================================== Here are the possible CPU types: 1750a, a29k, alpha, arm, cN, clipper, dsp16xx, elxsi, h8300, hppa1.0, hppa1.1, i370, i386, i486, i586, i860, i960, m32r, m68000, m68k, m88k, mips, mipsel, mips64, mips64el, ns32k, powerpc, powerpcle, pyramid, romp, rs6000, sh, sparc, sparclite, sparc64, vax, we32k. Note: sparc64! So does we need the toolchain? What is exactly the toolchain? 2) Can we use the gcc2.8? 3) Differences between gcc2.8 and toolchain? 4) Crosscompiling from i386 platforms: I have read the cross-compiling section from the same document, and it does not seem a good idea 8( This means I need an AXi motherboard! 8(( 5) Have you done experiments with the booting part? 6) Can you put everything on-line somewhere? (documents, the toolchain, etc..) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 12:29:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22770 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.eecis.udel.edu (louie.udel.edu [128.175.2.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA22765 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:29:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:29:38 -0800 (PST) From: alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu Message-Id: <199811272029.MAA22765@hub.freebsd.org> Received: from ren.eecis.udel.edu by mail.eecis.udel.edu id aa17970; 27 Nov 1998 15:29 EST To: Paolo Di Francesco Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: [Ultra] Compiler, again Organization: Mos Eisley Candy Store Reply-To: alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In Reply to Your Message of Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19: 40:05 GMT Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:29:21 -0500 From: Jerry Alexandratos Message-ID: <199811271529.aa17970@mail.eecis.udel.edu> Paolo Di Francesco says: : : Black-box #1: running on i386, used gcc2.7.2 + toolchain, etc : Black-box #2: running on i386, used gcc2.8 + ???? : Black-box #3: running on i386, used egcs1.1b + ???? : Black-box #4: running on i386, used gccX.Y.Z and emulator under i386 + Solari s bin...etc... : Black-box #5: running on USparc, using gccX.Y.Z Wouldn't gcc28 be the best way to go? The only reason I say this is because I thought the decision was made to have that be the eventual upgrade of our compiler. This would definitely be incentive to push that project forward. Why gcc28? This has been discussed ad infinitum and you can search the list archives for postings by Terry "the man" Lambert for the reasoning behind gcc28 over egcs. --Jerry 8) Jerry Alexandratos % - % "Nothing inhabits my (8 8) alexandr@louie.udel.edu % - % thoughts, and oblivion (8 8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu % - % drives my desires." (8 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 13:27:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25925 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rgate2.ricochet.net (rgate2.ricochet.net [204.179.143.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25920 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:27:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: from mg130-076.ricochet.net (mg130-076.ricochet.net [204.179.130.76]) by rgate2.ricochet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15422; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:27:15 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:26:29 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > I've been pulling my hair out trying to do this, i downloaded the source > rpms like you suggested... they both come with several patches which i > applied, but then it got all confusing. > > Basically, each source rpm comes with a huge patchfile along with several > other patch files, the huge patchfile i apply in the directory above the > source tree, and it patches the source tree, however it also makes a > directory where there are duplicate files of the tree. > > If i merge this directory into the extracted directory then > configure/compile it seems to work as then the binutils compiled fine, > however i think i messed up the flags i ghave to configure because while > this "method" of building worked for binutils, it seems that the same > flags passed to configure for gcc produce an empty makefile. :( IIRC, getting the whole thing to build was a non-trivial process that involved applying several patches by hand. Most of the patches supplied with the rpms have already been applied to the latest 2.7.x release. I'll revisit the build process this weekend and produce documentation to get the compiler and the rest of the toolchain built. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 13:55:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28154 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:55:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28146 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:55:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA39724; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:58:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:58:10 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: cnielsen@pobox.com cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > > If i merge this directory into the extracted directory then > > configure/compile it seems to work as then the binutils compiled fine, > > however i think i messed up the flags i ghave to configure because while > > this "method" of building worked for binutils, it seems that the same > > flags passed to configure for gcc produce an empty makefile. :( > > IIRC, getting the whole thing to build was a non-trivial process that > involved applying several patches by hand. Most of the patches supplied > with the rpms have already been applied to the latest 2.7.x release. I'll > revisit the build process this weekend and produce documentation to get > the compiler and the rest of the toolchain built. Thanks, that would be super cool. "Dammit i'm a asm hacker not a compiler guru Jim!" -Alfred I'm also wondering about doing a build under sparc (via solaris 7) but i don't think this is viable, do you think that using UltraP for a compiler platform is a bad idea? > > -- > Christopher Nielsen > Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator > > cnielsen@scient.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 14:08:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29292 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:08:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rgate2.ricochet.net (rgate2.ricochet.net [204.179.143.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29287 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:08:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: from mg130-076.ricochet.net (mg130-076.ricochet.net [204.179.130.76]) by rgate2.ricochet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17905 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:07:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:07:44 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > 1) do we really need the toolchain? I have downloaded gcc2.8 and I found this Um... yes. Without the toolchain, you won't be building any sparc64-elf binaries. In addition to a compiler, you need an assembler and a linker. It's also nice to have some binary manipulation tools like objdump and friends, too. > 2) Can we use the gcc2.8? I'll look into using gcc-2.8 as the compiler in the toolchain. There was a reason I didn't originally, but I can't remember what it was. > 3) Differences between gcc2.8 and toolchain? gcc-2.8 is just a compiler. See above for details. > 4) Crosscompiling from i386 platforms: I have read the cross-compiling > section from the same document, and it does not seem a good idea 8( > This means I need an AXi motherboard! 8(( Where do you read that? > 5) Have you done experiments with the booting part? I don't have hardware to test anything; I'm looking into a simulator. The lack of hardware will change after the first of the year. > 6) Can you put everything on-line somewhere? (documents, the > toolchain, etc..) I don't have anywahere I can put them for public access, but maybe we can put them at freebsd.org? -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 16:33:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14913 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:33:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14907; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:33:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA29892; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:02:58 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA05751; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:02:57 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981128110256.N468@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:02:56 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <199811251911.OAA00633@jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com>; <19981126110842.D67961@freebie.lemis.com> <19981126012503.TTRF23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981126012503.TTRF23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation>; from Paolo Di Francesco on Thu, Nov 26, 1998 at 02:27:21AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 X-Mutt-References: <19981126012503.TTRF23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 26 November 1998 at 2:27:21 +0000, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> [Format autorecovered at freebie.lemis.com] >> >> On Wednesday, 25 November 1998 at 14:11:42 -0500, Jerry Hicks wrote: >>> Chuck Youse - Icon CMT Network Operations Center wrote: >>>> Use GNU make. >>> >>> Definitely good advice! > >> I prefer GNU make to BSD make, but it's still not good advice. >> FreeBSD uses BSD make, and if we start requiring two different makes >> to build the product, we're going to have both procedural trouble and >> lots of resistance from the core team. > > Well, onestly I don't know.... Can someone contact a member of the > freeBSD core team? Sure, anyone can contact a member of the FreeBSD core team. I'm copying Jordan on this one, because I'm pretty sure this is an issue on which the core team will have no differences in opinion. Jordan, the proposal is to use GNU make instead of BSD make for the Sparc port. As I said above, I don't agree for political reasons. Would you like to make a statement? > Personally I don't think we'll have problems about this. We need > something to compile our (internal) code to do experiments and to > build a kernel. We can use Solaris or another > OperatingSystem+compiler, the important thing is that we must have > an UltraSparc compiler. If we cannot do compiling using the gcc, > well we have no choose, we must use egcs. [Back to the Sparc people] Don't forget that the other flavours of *BSD also use gcc. The difference is that they use different Makefiles (which, BTW, are at least one order of magnitude less complex). Your challenge would be to modify them, preferably in a manner which wouldn't preclude their use on other platforms, so that they would also build a Sparc compiler. So far, the only platform dependency in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/Makefile.inc is: if ${MACHINE_ARCH} != "i386" BINFORMAT= elf .else # Pick aout for now. the elf config is not binary compatable. BINFORMAT?= aout #BINFORMAT?= elf .endif It seems to me that this wouldn't need changing for Sparc. > In the future, we can use gcc if it will support UltraSparc, but now > no egcs no UltraFreeBSD. For the userland maybe we will have more > problems. Anything will be compiled with egcs if gcc does not > support Ultra, and this means we cannot distribute sources and the > compiler, because we must use gcc for the userland. (I think) There are other messages which suggest that the future is now. I can't see any reason not to move to 2.8.x if that's what it takes. By the time the Sparc port gets merged into the main source tree, the other platforms will probably support it too. In the meantime you could use the version in ports. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 17:14:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17705 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:14:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17700 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:14:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.82]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981128011428.BZH5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation>; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:14:28 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: Greg Lehey , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:16:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-reply-to: <19981128110256.N468@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19981126012503.TTRF23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation>; from Paolo Di Francesco on Thu, Nov 26, 1998 at 02:27:21AM +0000 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981128011428.BZH5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > Well, onestly I don't know.... Can someone contact a member of the > > freeBSD core team? > > Sure, anyone can contact a member of the FreeBSD core team. I'm > copying Jordan on this one, because I'm pretty sure this is an issue > on which the core team will have no differences in opinion. > Perfect, so we can have a clear idea what to use... 8) [cut] > [Back to the Sparc people] > > Don't forget that the other flavours of *BSD also use gcc. The > difference is that they use different Makefiles (which, BTW, are at > least one order of magnitude less complex). Your challenge would be > to modify them, preferably in a manner which wouldn't preclude their > use on other platforms, so that they would also build a Sparc > compiler. So far, the only platform dependency in > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/Makefile.inc is: > > if ${MACHINE_ARCH} != "i386" > BINFORMAT= elf > .else > # Pick aout for now. the elf config is not binary compatable. > BINFORMAT?= aout > #BINFORMAT?= elf > .endif > > It seems to me that this wouldn't need changing for Sparc. I don't know which are the tecnical problems when you compile a cross-compiler. For the compiler part (use Solaris+gccX.Y) I don't think we have many prob. > There are other messages which suggest that the future is now. I > can't see any reason not to move to 2.8.x if that's what it takes. By > the time the Sparc port gets merged into the main source tree, the > other platforms will probably support it too. In the meantime you > could use the version in ports. > Yes, if there are no tecnical or political problems we can use it. I don't know if we can use it as crosscompiler, but we can try. P.S. I have downloaded gcc2.8. For me, we can start using it... ;) P.P.S. Rember: I haven't an Ultra. This means "crosscompiling" and I don't know if we can use gcc for crosscompiling 8( Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 17:18:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17864 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:18:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep04-svc.tin.it (mta04-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17859 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:18:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.82]) by fep04-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981128011824.COZ6908.fep04-svc@winworkstation>; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:18:24 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:20:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-reply-to: <199811272029.MAA22765@hub.freebsd.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981128011824.COZ6908.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Wouldn't gcc28 be the best way to go? The only reason I say this is > because I thought the decision was made to have that be the eventual > upgrade of our compiler. This would definitely be incentive to push that > project forward. > For me, no prob. But we have to wait a response from freebsd-core. In the meantime, we can do experiments using _everything_! Do you want to use your old "commodor64"? Use it ;) WE need something to test (booter, experiment#1, experiment#2, etc...) so we can learn from someone else code ;) > Why gcc28? This has been discussed ad infinitum and you can search the > list archives for postings by Terry "the man" Lambert for the reasoning > behind gcc28 over egcs. I have tried to find something about this, but nothing. 8( Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 17:22:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18276 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:22:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep01-svc.tin.it (mta01-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18271 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:22:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.82]) by fep01-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981128012205.LVE21309.fep01-svc@winworkstation>; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:22:05 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:24:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981128012205.LVE21309.fep01-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I'm also wondering about doing a build under sparc (via solaris 7) but i > don't think this is viable, do you think that using UltraP for a compiler > platform is a bad idea? > I don't know if we can use (or someone is using) a crosscompiler. So if we have no crosscompiler (possibly under i386) I think that is the _only_ way to build a kernel. But you have to use Solaris/UltraSparc and compile on it. Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 17:30:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18658 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:30:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18646 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:30:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA00278; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:00:11 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA06157; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:00:09 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981128120008.W468@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:00:08 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <19981126012503.TTRF23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation>; <19981128110256.N468@freebie.lemis.com> <19981128011428.BZH5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981128011428.BZH5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation>; from Paolo Di Francesco on Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 02:16:46AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 2:16:46 +0000, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote I inserted the line above myself. It would be helpful if you got your mailer to do it for you. >> Don't forget that the other flavours of *BSD also use gcc. The >> difference is that they use different Makefiles (which, BTW, are at >> least one order of magnitude less complex). Your challenge would be >> to modify them, preferably in a manner which wouldn't preclude their >> use on other platforms, so that they would also build a Sparc >> compiler. So far, the only platform dependency in >> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/Makefile.inc is: >> >> if ${MACHINE_ARCH} != "i386" >> BINFORMAT= elf >> .else >> # Pick aout for now. the elf config is not binary compatable. >> BINFORMAT?= aout >> #BINFORMAT?= elf >> .endif >> >> It seems to me that this wouldn't need changing for Sparc. > > I don't know which are the tecnical problems when you compile a > cross-compiler. For the compiler part (use Solaris+gccX.Y) I don't > think we have many prob. I don't think we would use the standard compiler as a cross-compiler. That should probably stay in the ports collection. >> There are other messages which suggest that the future is now. I >> can't see any reason not to move to 2.8.x if that's what it takes. By >> the time the Sparc port gets merged into the main source tree, the >> other platforms will probably support it too. In the meantime you >> could use the version in ports. > > Yes, if there are no tecnical or political problems we can use it. I don't know > if we can use it as crosscompiler, but we can try. Yes, gcc can be compiled as a cross-compiler. > P.P.S. Rember: I haven't an Ultra. This means "crosscompiling" and I don't know > if we can use gcc for crosscompiling 8( Yes, gcc can be compiled as a cross-compiler. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 17:36:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19338 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:36:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gjp.erols.com (alex-va-n008c079.moon.jic.com [206.156.18.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19333 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:36:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) Received: from gjp.erols.com (localhost.erols.com [127.0.0.1]) by gjp.erols.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA50507; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:36:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: "Paolo Di Francesco" cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:27:21 GMT." <19981126012503.TTRF23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:36:19 -0500 Message-ID: <50503.912216979@gjp.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Paolo Di Francesco" wrote in message ID <19981126012503.TTRF23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation>: > Well, onestly I don't know.... Can someone contact a member of the freeBSD > core team? Some members of the core team read this list :) While I can't speak authoratitively for the entire core team, I'm 99% certain that they would not like using gmake for the u-sparc port. While doing so for initial porting isn't objectionable, bringing the code tree back to the FreeBSD project with all the bmake files as gmake files would present ... problems :) So My P.O.V. (Point Of View) is that if you just use gmake for bootstrapping, then fine, but expect to convert that all to bmake for `production'. Also don't expect the bootstrapping code to go into the main CVS tree. I think the development should be done through some other means and then imported onto freefall when ready for a wider audience (like the alpha stuff). Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 17:37:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19387 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:37:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19382 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:37:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.82]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981128013741.DGF5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation>; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:37:41 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: cnielsen@pobox.com, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:40:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <19981127170550.YEQB21309.fep01-svc@winworkstation> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981128013741.DGF5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > > > 1) do we really need the toolchain? I have downloaded gcc2.8 and I found this > > Um... yes. Without the toolchain, you won't be building any sparc64-elf > binaries. Sorry for my stupid question, but is the kernel an elf-bin? I think no, but maybe I'm wrong. For the userland: yes they are all elf-bin, but I don't know for the kernel. I don't know if we have to link it or we can use only the "assemby" code. [Well my description is not rigorous, but I hope you have understood. 8)] > In addition to a compiler, you need an assembler and a linker. Without assember we can do nothing. Maybe without linker we can do the kernel. Right? But if we don't try we'll never know! 8) > It's also nice to have some binary manipulation tools like objdump and > friends, too. > We need as many tools as possible.... > > 2) Can we use the gcc2.8? > I'll look into using gcc-2.8 as the compiler in the toolchain. There was a > reason I didn't originally, but I can't remember what it was. Try to remember! Eat fishes, if this can help! 8))) > > 3) Differences between gcc2.8 and toolchain? > > gcc-2.8 is just a compiler. See above for details. > So the question is: what is exactly a toolchain??? > > 4) Crosscompiling from i386 platforms: I have read the cross-compiling > > section from the same document, and it does not seem a good idea 8( > > This means I need an AXi motherboard! 8(( > > Where do you read that? > On the installation manual. It said something like "you need an assembler to build it" or something like that. If it can be useful I can post (or send) the Install file of gcc2.8 so you can read it without download the pack. Does someone want it? > > 5) Have you done experiments with the booting part? > > I don't have hardware to test anything; Me too 8( Hey you! Yes you reading this message! Do you want to donate your Ultra? No?!? Ok I tried! 8) > I'm looking into a simulator. Me too. But with the simulator we cannot simulate everything. For example there's no OBP.... And I have searche for V9 simulator. Nothing 8( > The lack of hardware will change after the first of the year. > Wow! Lucky man! 8) But remember: we have many tester. Yes, it's not the same thing, but better than nothing. So if you want to try your code you can ask someone to do it for you... ;) > > 6) Can you put everything on-line somewhere? (documents, the > > toolchain, etc..) > > I don't have anywahere I can put them for public access, but maybe we can > put them at freebsd.org? > I think it's not a prob. But we need a more "open" room on the internet. Someone offered this, so I will contact him asking to let us use that room ;) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 17:47:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20068 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:47:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20063 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:46:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA00341; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:16:29 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA06193; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:16:16 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981128121616.A6182@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:16:16 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Paolo Di Francesco , Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <19981128012205.LVE21309.fep01-svc@winworkstation> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981128012205.LVE21309.fep01-svc@winworkstation>; from Paolo Di Francesco on Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 02:24:27AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 2:24:27 +0000, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote (I think): >> I'm also wondering about doing a build under sparc (via solaris 7) but i >> don't think this is viable, do you think that using UltraP for a compiler >> platform is a bad idea? > > I don't know if we can use (or someone is using) a crosscompiler. So if we have > no crosscompiler (possibly under i386) I think that is the _only_ way to build > a kernel. But you have to use Solaris/UltraSparc and compile on it. Using a cross-compiler is easy. How are you going to run the kernel if you don't have the hardware? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 17:54:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20779 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:54:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep04-svc.tin.it (mta04-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20771 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:54:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.82]) by fep04-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981128015418.EMP6908.fep04-svc@winworkstation>; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:54:18 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: Greg Lehey , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:56:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-reply-to: <19981128121616.A6182@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19981128012205.LVE21309.fep01-svc@winworkstation>; from Paolo Di Francesco on Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 02:24:27AM +0000 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981128015418.EMP6908.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ to build a kernel...] > > Using a cross-compiler is easy. How are you going to run the kernel > if you don't have the hardware? > hope to buy it in the future. In the meantime someone else will do it for me (I hope...) 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 18:02:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21774 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:02:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21735 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:01:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.82]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981128020141.ELI5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation>; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 03:01:41 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: Greg Lehey , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 03:04:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-reply-to: <19981128120008.W468@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19981128011428.BZH5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation>; from Paolo Di Francesco on Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 02:16:46AM +0000 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981128020141.ELI5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Greg Lehey wrote > > I inserted the line above myself. It would be helpful if you got your > mailer to do it for you. > I don't know if it can do it. I didn't think it was so important. 8( [I said] > > > > I don't know which are the tecnical problems when you compile a > > cross-compiler. For the compiler part (use Solaris+gccX.Y) I don't > > think we have many prob. > [and you said] > I don't think we would use the standard compiler as a cross-compiler. > That should probably stay in the ports collection. > I don't understand this. Can you be more explicit on this? 8) > Yes, gcc can be compiled as a cross-compiler. In the weekend I'll try to do it, so I will be able to illustrate _if_ I was able to do it , and if not "why and where" I encountered problems. 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 18:12:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22313 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:12:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22306 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:12:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA24051; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:18:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199811280218.NAA24051@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: <19981128120008.W468@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Nov 28, 98 12:00:08 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:18:06 +1100 (EST) Cc: paipai@tin.it, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > >> There are other messages which suggest that the future is now. I > >> can't see any reason not to move to 2.8.x if that's what it takes. By > >> the time the Sparc port gets merged into the main source tree, the > >> other platforms will probably support it too. In the meantime you > >> could use the version in ports. > > > > Yes, if there are no tecnical or political problems we can use it. I don't know > > if we can use it as crosscompiler, but we can try. > > Yes, gcc can be compiled as a cross-compiler. [ Comments not intended specifically for Greg - I just picked his mail to reply to. 8-) ] Last time I tried building a 64-bit (alpha) cross-compiler on a 32-bit (i386) system, I couldn't get it to compile. I may not have configured the thing properly, so YMMV, but it is worth checking the gcc or egcs configure scripts to see if Cygnus have support for the host/target combination you require. At a guess I'd say that unless there is a Linux/i386 hosted option for the sparc64, then it's unlikely to work out-of-the-box. Last time I asked about 2.8.X, I concluded that there was sufficient support for that to go into the tree after 3.0. So that means _now_. I bet gmake will never go into the tree! Expending any effort in that direction would be a waste of time. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 18:13:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22470 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:13:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22465 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:13:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA00453; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:42:57 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA06308; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:42:55 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981128124255.E6182@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:42:55 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: John Birrell Cc: paipai@tin.it, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <19981128120008.W468@freebie.lemis.com> <199811280218.NAA24051@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811280218.NAA24051@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 01:18:06PM +1100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 13:18:06 +1100, John Birrell wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >>>> There are other messages which suggest that the future is now. I >>>> can't see any reason not to move to 2.8.x if that's what it takes. By >>>> the time the Sparc port gets merged into the main source tree, the >>>> other platforms will probably support it too. In the meantime you >>>> could use the version in ports. >>> >>> Yes, if there are no tecnical or political problems we can use it. I don't know >>> if we can use it as crosscompiler, but we can try. >> >> Yes, gcc can be compiled as a cross-compiler. > > Last time I tried building a 64-bit (alpha) cross-compiler on a 32-bit > (i386) system, I couldn't get it to compile. I may not have configured > the thing properly, so YMMV, but it is worth checking the gcc or egcs > configure scripts to see if Cygnus have support for the host/target > combination you require. At a guess I'd say that unless there is a > Linux/i386 hosted option for the sparc64, then it's unlikely to > work out-of-the-box. Yes, I've tried and given up too, though I didn't try very hard. But it's definitely not the trivial build that native gcc is. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 18:16:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22611 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:16:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22602 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:16:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA00465; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:45:56 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA06321; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:45:56 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981128124555.F6182@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:45:55 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <19981128011428.BZH5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation>; <19981128120008.W468@freebie.lemis.com> <19981128020141.ELI5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981128020141.ELI5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation>; from Paolo Di Francesco on Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 03:04:05AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 3:04:05 +0000, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > >> Greg Lehey wrote >> >> I inserted the line above myself. It would be helpful if you got your >> mailer to do it for you. > > I don't know if it can do it. I didn't think it was so important. 8( I'm sure it can be. It's very important to keep track of who said what when things get nested 10 deep. >>> I don't know which are the tecnical problems when you compile a >>> cross-compiler. For the compiler part (use Solaris+gccX.Y) I don't >>> think we have many prob. >> >> I don't think we would use the standard compiler as a cross-compiler. >> That should probably stay in the ports collection. > > I don't understand this. Can you be more explicit on this? 8) The source tree structure carries a few assumptions, one of which is that you're performing a native compile. Sure, it's a good idea to be able to cross-compile, but on the current and likely future platforms that FreeBSD might be ported to, it's not likely to become the rule. >> Yes, gcc can be compiled as a cross-compiler. > > In the weekend I'll try to do it, so I will be able to illustrate > _if_ I was able to do it , and if not "why and where" I encountered > problems. 8) You'll encounter problems, as John B. predicted. If you want, send me a message offline when you do, and I'll see if I can help. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 18:37:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23856 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:37:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23851; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:37:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA07431; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:38:14 -0800 (PST) To: Greg Lehey cc: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:02:56 +1030." <19981128110256.N468@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:38:08 -0800 Message-ID: <7427.912220688@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't have enough context to even really comment on this. There is a SPARC port? What stage is it at - conceptual or close to working? Is this an embedded solution or an attempt to bring FreeBSD, in all its glory, to the SPARc platform? If it's the former, then I guess the answer is "don't really care" since that's a local preference issue. If it's the latter, then the question of which make to use isn't even a question: BSD make. It wouldn't be "BSD" otherwise. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 18:52:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25016 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:52:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25011 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:52:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA00558; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:21:49 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id NAA06431; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:21:26 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981128132125.H6182@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:21:25 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Paolo Di Francesco , cnielsen@pobox.com, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <19981127170550.YEQB21309.fep01-svc@winworkstation> <19981128013741.DGF5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981128013741.DGF5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation>; from Paolo Di Francesco on Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 02:40:04AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 2:40:04 +0000, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > This must have been cnielsen@pobox.com >> On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: >> >>> 1) do we really need the toolchain? I have downloaded gcc2.8 and I found this >> >> Um... yes. Without the toolchain, you won't be building any sparc64-elf >> binaries. > > Sorry for my stupid question, but is the kernel an elf-bin? I think no, but > maybe I'm wrong. Well, that's a decision to be made, but I'd be very surprised if it were not. The i386 architecture used a.out for hysterical raisins, but I can't imagine anybody introducing it on other platforms. >> In addition to a compiler, you need an assembler and a linker. > > Without assember we can do nothing. Maybe without linker we can do the kernel. > Right? No, you need a linker there, too. > But if we don't try we'll never know! 8) Of course we can. Just look at the Makefiles. >>> 3) Differences between gcc2.8 and toolchain? >> >> gcc-2.8 is just a compiler. See above for details. > > So the question is: what is exactly a toolchain??? All the tools you need to build the package. In addition to the compiler, at least an assembler and linker. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 19:03:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25749 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:03:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25742 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:03:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA06483; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:03:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19981127190309.D2495@nuxi.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:03:09 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: cnielsen@pobox.com, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again (fwd) Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Christopher Nielsen on Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 02:07:44PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I don't have anywahere I can put them for public access, but maybe we can > put them at freebsd.org? Upload them to ftp://ftp.nuxi.com/incoming, and send me an email listing the files and describing them. I will put them on www.freebsd.org off the sparc webpage. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 19:34:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28005 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:34:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28000 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:34:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA39982; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:37:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:37:38 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Greg Lehey cc: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: <19981128121616.A6182@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 2:24:27 +0000, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > > Alfred Perlstein wrote (I think): > >> I'm also wondering about doing a build under sparc (via solaris 7) but i > >> don't think this is viable, do you think that using UltraP for a compiler > >> platform is a bad idea? > > > > I don't know if we can use (or someone is using) a crosscompiler. So if we have > > no crosscompiler (possibly under i386) I think that is the _only_ way to build > > a kernel. But you have to use Solaris/UltraSparc and compile on it. > > Using a cross-compiler is easy. How are you going to run the kernel > if you don't have the hardware? I'm considering setting up a cvs server for the sparc port, it seems the croud that has gathered (Eivind and yourself excluded, myself included :) ) don't exactly qualify for commit access to the main tree. I will be agressively testing code if any is done, meaning although it stinks, a sort of "batch process" of testing is possible and i will try to have minimal turnaround of one day for new code that is tested (although i work full time, i think i can do this) I think the people at my workplace won't mind me setting up a server to do this, however i will have to ask for permission. This means that freebsd-sparc will be a version freeze as of a few days from now if i can get this server up. Hopefully if anything comes of this a merge back into -current won't be too painful. -Alfred > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 19:51:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29445 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29437; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:51:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA40001; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:54:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:54:23 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Greg Lehey , Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: <7427.912220688@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I want to address several issues that popped up so far today... w3rd --- The issue about cross compiling, i'm seriously thinking of installing ultraP to make cross compiling an almost non-issue. Since their compiler/toolchain work all that is needed is the small patch given to me via email to get gcc to produce what would become FreeBSD-sparc64 friendly code. -- Which gcc/egcs probably the one that comes with ultraP, we are striving for correctness and egcs is supposedly VERY broken for usparc64, even though i've annoyed the lists about gcc2.8.1 i think for consistancy's sake we should try to use 2.7.2.2 if there are patches to get it to generate correct asm code. -- About using gmake to build gcc: ugh, NO GMAKE, don't use it for our current tree and we shouldn't have to for the sparc tree :) I think the way most things that use configure/gmake are brough into the tree is this: 1) configure is run to make gmake files. 2) those generated files are then clobbered into a bmake structure (if i'm wrong someone pipe up and tell at what stage the files are bmake'd) I got mid-way bmaking perl5 for 3.0 before someone piped up that they had it 90% done, and a week later it was brought in. This won't be a problem, .: no gmake :) -- About the binutils, it's already been explained why these are needed, I don't see how we are to compile things unless we have ld, and gas amongst other things. You can NOT build a kernel without ld because the object files must be linked as the final stage of the build. This is a mute point, binutils seemed to build fine for target sparc64-elf, gcc was the one that gave me a headache. I wasn't able to verify the correctness of the binutils because of my lack of a 64bit producing gcc. -- Lastly i want to thank all those who have taken interest, this is really encouraging and the pointers and code that people have dragged out of the closet to get me looking in the right direction is VERY MUCH appreciated. thank you, Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I don't have enough context to even really comment on this. There is > a SPARC port? What stage is it at - conceptual or close to working? > Is this an embedded solution or an attempt to bring FreeBSD, in all > its glory, to the SPARc platform? If it's the former, then I guess > the answer is "don't really care" since that's a local preference > issue. If it's the latter, then the question of which make to use > isn't even a question: BSD make. It wouldn't be "BSD" otherwise. > > - Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 20:14:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01392 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:14:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01386 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:14:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA24344; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:20:40 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199811280420.PAA24344@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: from Alfred Perlstein at "Nov 27, 98 10:37:38 pm" To: bright@hotjobs.com (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:20:40 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein wrote: > This means that freebsd-sparc will be a version freeze as of a few days > from now if i can get this server up. Hopefully if anything comes of this > a merge back into -current won't be too painful. Keeping the code out of the tree will definitely mean a painful merge. I say this speaking from experience. I found it better to make commits on-the-run in order to prevent them suffering from bit rot. A month in the life of a project like FreeBSD is a long time. Don't be fooled by the ease with which you can catch up on i386 by doing a CVSup and a make world. When you are working on a different architecture, any changes to the i386 tree can blow you out of the water. You need to remember that code that is submitted needs to be reviewed. The greater the number of lines of diffs in submitted code, the more difficult it is for people to review it. Sometimes what seems to be a simple diff to a single source file will generate many emails from people saying "don't do that". Leaving all this for a single merge will probably doom the port. I think people need to be realistic about what it is possible to achieve and what steps are required. It would make sense to concentrate on helping to make FreeBSD's build process support cross-compilation, starting with i386. There are other people working on support for other architectures that will support that. "One step at a time", not "lets write code and test, test, test!". -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 23:04:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12241 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:04:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12236 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:04:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13605; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:04:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <365FA073.BD5F78AF@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:04:19 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <19981126012503.TTRF23855.fep04-svc@winworkstation>; <19981128110256.N468@freebie.lemis.com> <19981128011428.BZH5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation> <19981128120008.W468@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 2:16:46 +0000, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > > > P.P.S. Rember: I haven't an Ultra. This means "crosscompiling" and I don't > > know if we can use gcc for crosscompiling 8( > > Yes, gcc can be compiled as a cross-compiler. It's really quite simple; I make my living with GCC cross-compilers. There are a few caveats; a GCC sparc cross-compiler running on a non-sparc host generates slightly different code from a sparc- hosted compiler; I have no idea why. Both generate valid code, just slightly different. Also, GCC code for 64-bit processors is better optimized when compiled on a 64-bit system. IIRC, the 64-bit hosts use larger window sizes for register scheduling and peephole optimization. Neither of these should have any effect on an initial porting effort. Once the kernel and userland are stable enough to support ongoing development, they become moot points. The best development environment for this is whatever you have: FreeBSD/386, FreeBSD/AXP, NetBSD/SPARC, Solaris SPARC, whatever. Running GCC cross-compilers on Atari STs running GEMDOG is a possibility, and better than not doing anything. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 23:07:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12470 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:07:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12465 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:07:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13617; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:08:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <365FA145.7305427D@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:07:49 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: John Birrell , paipai@tin.it, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <19981128120008.W468@freebie.lemis.com> <199811280218.NAA24051@cimlogic.com.au> <19981128124255.E6182@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 13:18:06 +1100, John Birrell wrote: > > > Last time I tried building a 64-bit (alpha) cross-compiler on a 32-bit > > (i386) system, I couldn't get it to compile. I may not have configured > > the thing properly, so YMMV, but it is worth checking the gcc or egcs > > configure scripts to see if Cygnus have support for the host/target > > combination you require. At a guess I'd say that unless there is a > > Linux/i386 hosted option for the sparc64, then it's unlikely to > > work out-of-the-box. > > Yes, I've tried and given up too, though I didn't try very hard. But > it's definitely not the trivial build that native gcc is. But Alpha isn't nearly as well supported by GCC as SPARC. Try building a true cross-compiler, either --target=sparc-aout or --target=sparc-elf. These don't expect to have any system include files to fix, or any vendor support libraries that must be linked. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 23:08:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12827 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:08:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12817 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:08:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA01230; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:38:16 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA08249; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:38:15 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981128173815.X6182@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:38:15 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: John Birrell , paipai@tin.it, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <19981128120008.W468@freebie.lemis.com> <199811280218.NAA24051@cimlogic.com.au> <19981128124255.E6182@freebie.lemis.com> <365FA145.7305427D@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <365FA145.7305427D@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 12:07:49AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 0:07:49 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 13:18:06 +1100, John Birrell wrote: >> >>> Last time I tried building a 64-bit (alpha) cross-compiler on a 32-bit >>> (i386) system, I couldn't get it to compile. I may not have configured >>> the thing properly, so YMMV, but it is worth checking the gcc or egcs >>> configure scripts to see if Cygnus have support for the host/target >>> combination you require. At a guess I'd say that unless there is a >>> Linux/i386 hosted option for the sparc64, then it's unlikely to >>> work out-of-the-box. >> >> Yes, I've tried and given up too, though I didn't try very hard. But >> it's definitely not the trivial build that native gcc is. > > But Alpha isn't nearly as well supported by GCC as SPARC. Try building > a true cross-compiler, either --target=sparc-aout or --target=sparc-elf. > These don't expect to have any system include files to fix, or any > vendor support libraries that must be linked. I wasn't talking about alpha. In fact, it's so long ago I can't remember what it was. The real issue was that I didn't have much time, and I wasn't expecting it to be as much work as it was. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Fri Nov 27 23:34:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14730 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:34:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14582 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:34:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA40371; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:37:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:37:05 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Wes Peters cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: <365FA145.7305427D@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > Yes, I've tried and given up too, though I didn't try very hard. But > > it's definitely not the trivial build that native gcc is. > > But Alpha isn't nearly as well supported by GCC as SPARC. Try building > a true cross-compiler, either --target=sparc-aout or --target=sparc-elf. > These don't expect to have any system include files to fix, or any > vendor support libraries that must be linked. don't we want sparc64-elf? Or is that difficult to do under i386 and if it is then how do we get it to work? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 01:37:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24320 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:37:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24315; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:37:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA20614; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:37:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:37:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Gary Palmer cc: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: <50503.912216979@gjp.erols.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Gary Palmer wrote: > While I can't speak authoratitively for the entire core team, I'm 99% > certain that they would not like using gmake for the u-sparc port. > While doing so for initial porting isn't objectionable, bringing the > code tree back to the FreeBSD project with all the bmake files as > gmake files would present ... problems :) I think the big problem is that nobody has a clue about how the whole system fits together and doesn't understand how the makefiles tie everything together. There is no reason to use gmake unless you want to reinvent the world. If that is the case, don't bother calling it 'FreeBSD'. Just for kicks I spent a few hours today getting libc from -current to compile on my NetBSD system. I used 'make -m /path/to/nfs/mounted/share/mk' and fabbed up a workable /usr/include/machine/*.h from looking at NetBSD, and the 2 FreeBSD arch dirs. Now, I've got libc compiling, but not linking shared, which I believe is a toolchain issue. (actually a crt0.o issue as I have discovered.) While I will admit that having a somewhat usable 'bmake' available on the NetBSD host system makes things easier, getting bmake to compile on other platforms should be fairly straight-forward (hell, I got it running on sprite at one point.) So, if the toolchain hackers can turn on the sparc and sparc64 stuff in the source tree I think that getting some of the userland bits going on a NetBSD/OpenBSD system would be do-able. I'm a bit unsure of how to bootstrap on a NetBSD system as 'buildworld' seems to look at /usr/lib and /usr/include (chroot tree?) (as it turns out, defining LD_NOSTD_PATH and then LD_LIBRARY_PATH does what I need for LD) and makes it difficult for me to provide manually compiled libraries to link the buildworld tools against. Anyhow, pursuing silly ideas about switching compilers and using gmake is just throwing additional steps in an already stepful process. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 01:44:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24798 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:44:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24792 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:44:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA43894 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:44:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:44:13 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: as is acting funny. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Why is 'as' giving me: ./xgcc -B./ -DCROSS_COMPILE -DIN_GCC -g -I./include -I. -I. -I./config -g0 \ -finhibit-size-directive -fno-inline-functions \ -c ./crtstuff.c -DCRT_BEGIN -o crtbegin.o /usr/libexec/elf/as: option `-s' is ambiguous ? I'm downloading newer binutils, I'm just guessing that this is some oddness due to FreeBSD's aout/elf combination at this point in time. I hope the newer tools are more friendly. Btw, i figured out that i was applying the patches to gcc2.7.2.2 incorectly, if i can fix this 'as' problem i'll be further on my way. Thanks, Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 02:22:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27744 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:22:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27739 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:22:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA25135; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:28:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199811281028.VAA25135@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: from "Matthew N. Dodd" at "Nov 28, 98 04:37:07 am" To: winter@jurai.net (Matthew N. Dodd) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:28:50 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > If that is the case, don't bother calling it 'FreeBSD'. > > Just for kicks I spent a few hours today getting libc from -current to > compile on my NetBSD system. > > I used 'make -m /path/to/nfs/mounted/share/mk' and fabbed up a workable > /usr/include/machine/*.h from looking at NetBSD, and the 2 FreeBSD arch > dirs. > > Now, I've got libc compiling, but not linking shared, which I believe is a > toolchain issue. (actually a crt0.o issue as I have discovered.) > > While I will admit that having a somewhat usable 'bmake' available on the > NetBSD host system makes things easier, getting bmake to compile on other > platforms should be fairly straight-forward (hell, I got it running on > sprite at one point.) > > So, if the toolchain hackers can turn on the sparc and sparc64 stuff in > the source tree I think that getting some of the userland bits going on a > NetBSD/OpenBSD system would be do-able. > > I'm a bit unsure of how to bootstrap on a NetBSD system as 'buildworld' > seems to look at /usr/lib and /usr/include (chroot tree?) (as it turns > out, defining LD_NOSTD_PATH and then LD_LIBRARY_PATH does what I need for > LD) and makes it difficult for me to provide manually compiled libraries > to link the buildworld tools against. If people look at the cvs history for src/Makefile and src/Makefile.alpha, they'll see how the Alpha port was bootstrapped on NetBSD. The first few tools like make, find, etc are compiled using the NetBSD compiler, headers and libraries. As the bootstrapped tools are installed in the obj tree they are executed in preference to the NetBSD tools. When the build gets to libc, it builds that using the NetBSD syscalls so that the linked executables work with the NetBSD kernel. This works for much of the tree. The exceptions are programs which require specific ioctl support (like disklabel, newfs etc). FWIW, I had the start of a m68k port working that way too. The in-tree binutils readily supports the extra architectures. gcc 2.8.X needs to be imported and bmaked in a cross-build friendly way. I know someone who wants mips support done this way. Alpha needs 2.8.X to solve some register allocation issues, and i386 needs better C++. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 02:30:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28545 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:30:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28539 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:30:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA01718; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:00:10 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id VAA08521; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:00:08 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981128210007.B6182@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:00:07 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Alfred Perlstein , sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: as is acting funny. References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 04:44:13AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 4:44:13 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Why is 'as' giving me: > > ./xgcc -B./ -DCROSS_COMPILE -DIN_GCC -g -I./include -I. -I. -I./config > -g0 \ > -finhibit-size-directive -fno-inline-functions \ > -c ./crtstuff.c -DCRT_BEGIN -o crtbegin.o > /usr/libexec/elf/as: option `-s' is ambiguous > > ? > > I'm downloading newer binutils, I'm just guessing that this is some > oddness due to FreeBSD's aout/elf combination at this point in time. I > hope the newer tools are more friendly. > > Btw, i figured out that i was applying the patches to gcc2.7.2.2 > incorectly, if i can fix this 'as' problem i'll be further on my way. It would be nice to know which as you are talking about. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 04:08:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07654 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:08:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sunsite.mff.cuni.cz (sunsite.ms.mff.cuni.cz [195.113.19.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA07644 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:08:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jj@sunsite.ms.mff.cuni.cz) Received: (from jj@localhost) by sunsite.mff.cuni.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06491; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:27:39 +0100 From: Jakub Jelinek Message-Id: <199811281127.MAA06491@sunsite.mff.cuni.cz> Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:27:34 +0100 (CET) Cc: grog@lemis.com, paipai@tin.it, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <365FA073.BD5F78AF@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at Nov 28, 98 00:04:19 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Also, GCC code for 64-bit processors is better optimized when compiled > on a 64-bit system. IIRC, the 64-bit hosts use larger window sizes > for register scheduling and peephole optimization. (btw: the most visible difference is usually in constant formation and stuff like that). There is a nifty trick how to overcome this :)) -DHOST_WIDE_INT="unsigned long long" -DHOST_BITS_PER_WIDE_INT=64 and you won't see the difference. Anyway, I'd suggest you to work on the compiler first before you start working with it, as egcs-current is currently broken towards sparc64, egcs from some months ago might do the job for kernel only (and you won't be able to compile e.g. libc), egcs 1.1 nor 1.0 won't work for sparc64 at all, gcc 2.8* is even worse (but it is a dead project anyway), gcc 2.7* + patches might again, compile several things, but is completely incompatible with SPARCv9 ABI, which is a major drawback. So, if you really want to start with a port, I'd suggest a couple of your people go and help with the compiler, that will help all sparc64 ports... Cheers, Jakub ___________________________________________________________________ Jakub Jelinek | jj@sunsite.mff.cuni.cz | http://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz Administrator of SunSITE Czech Republic, MFF, Charles University ___________________________________________________________________ UltraLinux hacker | http://ultra.linux.cz | UltraPenguin maintainer Linux version 2.1.129 on a sparc64 machine (3958.37 BogoMips) ___________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 06:12:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15565 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 06:12:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep01-svc.tin.it (mta01-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA15560 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 06:12:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.235.21]) by fep01-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981128141216.BXWF21309.fep01-svc@winworkstation>; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:12:16 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:14:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: Your message of "Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:02:56 +1030." <19981128110256.N468@freebie.lemis.com> In-reply-to: <7427.912220688@zippy.cdrom.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981128141216.BXWF21309.fep01-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I don't have enough context to even really comment on this. There is > a SPARC port? What stage is it at - conceptual or close to working? We are talking about what we have in our hands, and what we need. So conceptual is more appropriate. > Is this an embedded solution or an attempt to bring FreeBSD, in all > its glory, to the SPARc platform? FreeBSD, everything. This is what we are trying to do. But now, we have nothing in our hands. No kernel, (probably) no compiler, nothing. So the first goal is the kernel, then we'll see 8) > If it's the former, then I guess > the answer is "don't really care" since that's a local preference > issue. If it's the latter, then the question of which make to use > isn't even a question: BSD make. It wouldn't be "BSD" otherwise. Ok. Now we know "what" to use. 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 07:36:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA19735 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:36:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA19730 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:36:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA44167; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:39:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:39:48 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Greg Lehey cc: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: as is acting funny. In-Reply-To: <19981128210007.B6182@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Saturday, 28 November 1998 at 4:44:13 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > Why is 'as' giving me: > > > > ./xgcc -B./ -DCROSS_COMPILE -DIN_GCC -g -I./include -I. -I. -I./config > > -g0 \ > > -finhibit-size-directive -fno-inline-functions \ > > -c ./crtstuff.c -DCRT_BEGIN -o crtbegin.o > > /usr/libexec/elf/as: option `-s' is ambiguous > > > > ? > > > > I'm downloading newer binutils, I'm just guessing that this is some > > oddness due to FreeBSD's aout/elf combination at this point in time. I > > hope the newer tools are more friendly. > > > > Btw, i figured out that i was applying the patches to gcc2.7.2.2 > > incorectly, if i can fix this 'as' problem i'll be further on my way. > > It would be nice to know which as you are talking about. doh, :) I posted that at 4am. Any how that is the output from xgcc while building a cross compiler on 3.0-current. 'as' is 'our' as, the one in /usr/src/contrib... -Alfred > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 08:34:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24441 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:34:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep02-svc.tin.it (mta02-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24427 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:34:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.234.101]) by fep02-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981128163401.QZAF16980.fep02-svc@winworkstation>; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:34:01 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:36:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again References: <7427.912220688@zippy.cdrom.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981128163401.QZAF16980.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred said: > > I want to address several issues that popped up so far today... w3rd > > --- > > The issue about cross compiling, i'm seriously thinking of installing > ultraP to make cross compiling an almost non-issue. Since their > compiler/toolchain work all that is needed is the small patch given to me > via email to get gcc to produce what would become FreeBSD-sparc64 friendly > code. > Why not? If you have enough room on your HD then install it! I think we have to start from something. But Jakub Jelinek pointed out that we need a better sparc64 compiler. I agree with this, but if we can do the port without putting our hands in the compiler I think the "better sparc64 compiler" will wait. Sorry. So, in the weekend please do these things for me (us): 1) try to install UltraP on your UltraSparc, and tell us if it works, and if you think it's a solution for the cross-compiling vs compiling problem. If it is we continue on UltraP and abandon every cross-compiling project. 2) Do some test on UltraP. If you install it try to build something (the kernel, or programs) so we can know if it's stable enough. I know it's stupid to think if it builds the kernel it will work for us, but it's a test, a stupid test, but a test. 8) I would do these things by myself, but I have no Ultra, so... I can try to build a cross-compiler for Ultra (host i386, target Ultra) but it does not seem a good idea. I have read the install file and it does not seem so easy, expecially if you have no Ultra to test if it works... 8( However I'll try to build something and Monday I'll tell you what I have done. I'll start from gcc2.8 (I know it's not stable), or egcs1.1b (Again I know, it's not so good) but I'll try. What I want to obtain is a cross-compiler (as I said host i386, target Ultra) but then I need the linker and the assember.... 8( About a "better sparc64 compiler": if we cannot use a gcc compiler, or an egcs compiler, or "XYZ" compiler, I think we must improve gcc and do the Sparc64 compiler. Sorry, this is the situation. I don't know if someone is interested in this.... 8( > -- > > Which gcc/egcs probably the one that comes with ultraP, we are striving > for correctness and egcs is supposedly VERY broken for usparc64, even > though i've annoyed the lists about gcc2.8.1 i think for consistancy's > sake we should try to use 2.7.2.2 if there are patches to get it to > generate correct asm code. > Hum... Ok. But we have to fix this. We have to decide what to use, so everyone can download the right package from Internet. Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 11:17:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06494 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:17:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06486 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:17:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20756; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:17:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19981128111700.A19744@nuxi.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:17:00 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Paolo Di Francesco , Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <7427.912220688@zippy.cdrom.com> <19981128163401.QZAF16980.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981128163401.QZAF16980.fep02-svc@winworkstation>; from Paolo Di Francesco on Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 05:36:27PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > However I'll try to build something and Monday I'll tell you what I > have done. I'll start from gcc2.8 (I know it's not stable), or > egcs1.1b (Again I know, it's not so good) but I'll try. Has anybody with an Ultra tried to install NetBSD/sparc64? Wouldn't that be a good place to start in figuring out what compiler to use since they obiviously have already done this? Why look at UltraP, when NetBSD/sparc64 is a whole lot closer to our world? -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 12:37:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11905 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11900 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:37:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA44419; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:40:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:40:13 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: "David O'Brien" cc: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Ultra] Compiler, again In-Reply-To: <19981128111700.A19744@nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, David O'Brien wrote: > > However I'll try to build something and Monday I'll tell you what I > > have done. I'll start from gcc2.8 (I know it's not stable), or > > egcs1.1b (Again I know, it's not so good) but I'll try. > > Has anybody with an Ultra tried to install NetBSD/sparc64? > Wouldn't that be a good place to start in figuring out what compiler to > use since they obiviously have already done this? > > Why look at UltraP, when NetBSD/sparc64 is a whole lot closer to our > world? Netbsd-sparc64 is not done yet, I have netbsd i386 installed and i'm going to look at cross compiling it, but... their tree won't even compile on i386 for me right now... And they are using a broken egcs.... *sigh* -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 12:55:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13256 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:55:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rgate2.ricochet.net (rgate2.ricochet.net [204.179.143.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13245 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:54:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: from mg136-099.ricochet.net (mg136-099.ricochet.net [204.179.136.99]) by rgate2.ricochet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20902; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 14:54:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:54:14 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: Alfred Perlstein cc: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: as is acting funny. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Why is 'as' giving me: > > ./xgcc -B./ -DCROSS_COMPILE -DIN_GCC -g -I./include -I. -I. -I./config > -g0 \ > -finhibit-size-directive -fno-inline-functions \ > -c ./crtstuff.c -DCRT_BEGIN -o crtbegin.o > /usr/libexec/elf/as: option `-s' is ambiguous You'll need to make a cross-assembler from binutils. > I'm downloading newer binutils, I'm just guessing that this is some > oddness due to FreeBSD's aout/elf combination at this point in time. I > hope the newer tools are more friendly. Try binutils-2.8.1. I'm working on binutils-2.9.1 and gcc-2.8.1 to see if we can use them for the toolchain. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 13:05:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14303 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:05:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14297 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:05:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA44442; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:08:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:08:51 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: cnielsen@pobox.com cc: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: as is acting funny. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Why is 'as' giving me: > > > > ./xgcc -B./ -DCROSS_COMPILE -DIN_GCC -g -I./include -I. -I. -I./config > > -g0 \ > > -finhibit-size-directive -fno-inline-functions \ > > -c ./crtstuff.c -DCRT_BEGIN -o crtbegin.o > > /usr/libexec/elf/as: option `-s' is ambiguous > > You'll need to make a cross-assembler from binutils. doh, i mixed up my chicken and egg :) I realize my blunder now, thanks. > > > I'm downloading newer binutils, I'm just guessing that this is some > > oddness due to FreeBSD's aout/elf combination at this point in time. I > > hope the newer tools are more friendly. > > Try binutils-2.8.1. > > I'm working on binutils-2.9.1 and gcc-2.8.1 to see if we can use them for > the toolchain. same here except 2.9.1-bin, gcc-2.7.2.2+ultraP patches. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 15:18:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24113 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:18:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24108 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:18:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA44550 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:21:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:21:43 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Huzzah! In-Reply-To: <19981128204917.CUXT5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Welp, i think i got it right finally. I'm going to be doing some more testing for a day, then i'll tar up my /usr/local/spar64 directory and put it up on ftp for anyone interested along with a readme on how i'm getting it to work. They are binaries for i386->sparc64 development. Now to start working on libc/lib* so i can populate my /usr/local/sparc64/lib directory and start linking. I do have a concern, it seems that linking requires a crt0.o, why is this? I know crt0.o is the "startup code" for the programs, but for some reason i thought elf makes it unnessesary? Or do our ELF utils automagically attach the file? ~ % gcc t.c -O3 /usr/local/sparc64/sparc64-elf/bin/ld: cannot open crt0.o: No such file or directory --- but anyway: ~ % gcc t.c -c -O3 ~ % file t.o t.o: ELF 64-bit MSB relocatable, RS6000, version 1 (hmmmmm?) ~ % uname -a FreeBSD bright.reserved 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Fri Nov 27 11:57:00 EST 1998 perlsta@bright.reserved:/usr/src/sys/compile/bright i386 :) The RS6000 thing bugs me but it just seems to be bad magic in the file(1) datafiles. It really stinks that the V9 manual is so far on backorder.. (4-6 weeks) at Amazon. I'll be looking elsewhere for copies but even some of the huge bookstores in NYC don't seem to cary it... :( Anyhow i'm in a great mood considering... 1) ctr0.o problem, is this a real problem? are my binutils broken? 2) lack of documentation at this point 3) i was only able to get c and c++ to compile out of the gcc distribution, but i don't think this is a problem as objective C and others aren't needed till much later in the project. 4) the dist of gcc i'm using, they all seem kinda broken but from the simple things i've compiled the asm looks correct. Comments? Questions? Corrections? Big thanks to those who stepped up to give pointers and help so far. thanks, Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 15:38:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25527 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:38:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25507 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:38:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA26555; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:44:35 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199811282344.KAA26555@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Huzzah! In-Reply-To: from Alfred Perlstein at "Nov 28, 98 06:21:43 pm" To: bright@hotjobs.com (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:44:35 +1100 (EST) Cc: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein wrote: > I do have a concern, it seems that linking requires a crt0.o, why is this? > I know crt0.o is the "startup code" for the programs, but for some reason > i thought elf makes it unnessesary? Or do our ELF utils automagically > attach the file? On elf, we use crt1.o for both i386 and alpha. This is set in the specs that gcc is compiled with. FreeBSD/Sparc64 should be (configured to be) consistent. The crt code is definitely required. That's where the user-space program initialisation is performed (e.g. C++ constructors). It's also the object that contains the global variable __sF[] for stdin, stdout and stderr. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 16:07:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29079 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:07:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29073 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:07:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA44596; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:10:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:10:35 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: John Birrell cc: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: crt0.o (was) Re: Huzzah! In-Reply-To: <199811282344.KAA26555@cimlogic.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > I do have a concern, it seems that linking requires a crt0.o, why is this? > > I know crt0.o is the "startup code" for the programs, but for some reason > > i thought elf makes it unnessesary? Or do our ELF utils automagically > > attach the file? > > On elf, we use crt1.o for both i386 and alpha. This is set in the specs > that gcc is compiled with. FreeBSD/Sparc64 should be (configured to be) > consistent. The crt code is definitely required. That's where the user-space > program initialisation is performed (e.g. C++ constructors). It's also > the object that contains the global variable __sF[] for stdin, stdout > and stderr. ok, this i understand, i'm going to change the STARTFILE_SPEC to match the one in FreeBSD has in src/contrib/gcc/config/i386/freebsd.h and recompile, this should fix it i hope. do you know of a document on the way we want it to work? something along the lines of documentation on ABI, but more of a style(9), but not in terms of look of code, but how code should be generated? Yes i know that made almost no sense, but i hope you understand what i'm asking. Or is it all UTSL? thanks, -Alfred > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 16:11:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29485 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:11:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29478 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:11:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA26641; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:18:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199811290018.LAA26641@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: crt0.o (was) Re: Huzzah! In-Reply-To: from Alfred Perlstein at "Nov 28, 98 07:10:35 pm" To: bright@hotjobs.com (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:18:06 +1100 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, sparc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein wrote: > do you know of a document on the way we want it to work? something along > the lines of documentation on ABI, but more of a style(9), but not in > terms of look of code, but how code should be generated? > Yes i know that made almost no sense, but i hope you understand what i'm > asking. Or is it all UTSL? There is supposed to be an ELF ABI document available somewhere. Try searching the mail archives for a reference. Otherwise, ask Terry. 8-) For first cut of the crt stuff, remove all references to shared code. This will simplify the task. Start with what NetBSD has and go from there. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 16:41:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02245 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:41:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02238 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:41:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA44624; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:44:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:44:05 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: John Birrell cc: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: crt0.o (was) Re: Huzzah! In-Reply-To: <199811290018.LAA26641@cimlogic.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, John Birrell wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > There is supposed to be an ELF ABI document available somewhere. Try > searching the mail archives for a reference. Otherwise, ask Terry. 8-) > > For first cut of the crt stuff, remove all references to shared code. > This will simplify the task. Start with what NetBSD has and go from there. ok, no more crt0.o, now crt1.o, i will look at what crt1.o does in freebsd tomorrow and code a sparc equiv asap. i'm keeping the patches i have to do against gcc for other developers alongside the patches from ultraP I have a netbsd source tree to look at and will be reading as much as possible. I'm also going to keep a log of that flags/things have to be passed to what, to actually bootstrap the sparc devel on i386. Do you have any other guidelines that i might follow to make a better port and avoid pitfalls? (ie. keeping logs and diffs) I kinda think setting up a single user cvs tree is overkill at the moment :) any suggestions? I need to find some docs or trace through some code to understand the ABI of sparc-elf (ie. which registers are temporary, arguments, globals, reserved) Working on it... -Alfred > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 17:07:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04621 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:07:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rgate2.ricochet.net (rgate2.ricochet.net [204.179.143.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04616 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:07:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: from mg136-099.ricochet.net (mg136-099.ricochet.net [204.179.136.99]) by rgate2.ricochet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03522; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:07:24 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:06:54 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: Alfred Perlstein cc: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Huzzah! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Welp, i think i got it right finally. I'm going to be doing some more > testing for a day, then i'll tar up my /usr/local/spar64 directory and put > it up on ftp for anyone interested along with a readme on how i'm getting > it to work. binutils-2.9.1 and gcc-2.8.1? > It really stinks that the V9 manual is so far on backorder.. (4-6 weeks) > at Amazon. > > I'll be looking elsewhere for copies but even some of the huge > bookstores in NYC don't seem to cary it... :( Have you tried barnesandnoble.com? -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 17:55:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08300 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:55:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08291 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:55:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA44700; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:58:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:58:29 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: cnielsen@pobox.com cc: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Huzzah! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > > Welp, i think i got it right finally. I'm going to be doing some more > > testing for a day, then i'll tar up my /usr/local/spar64 directory and put > > it up on ftp for anyone interested along with a readme on how i'm getting > > it to work. > > binutils-2.9.1 and gcc-2.8.1? nopers, i don't have the wizardry to hack those into working order, i used: binutils-2.8.1.tar.gz gcc-2.7.2.2.tar.gz Sorry, but this seemed to be the workable option at the moment, unless gcc-2.8.1 compiles "out-of-the-box" for sparc64-elf i don't think i'll be able to use it. I just don't have the time to do both nor the skill imo. > > > It really stinks that the V9 manual is so far on backorder.. (4-6 weeks) > > at Amazon. > > > > I'll be looking elsewhere for copies but even some of the huge > > bookstores in NYC don't seem to cary it... :( > > Have you tried barnesandnoble.com? Just did, ordered sparcV9 and Sparc & C programming & assembler. Should have it within the week. thanks, -Alfred > > -- > Christopher Nielsen > Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator > > cnielsen@scient.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 20:47:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21777 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:47:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21772 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16467; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:48:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3660D21F.34DC3F73@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:48:31 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein CC: John Birrell , sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: crt0.o (was) Re: Huzzah! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > I'm also going to keep a log of that flags/things have to be passed to > what, to actually bootstrap the sparc devel on i386. > > Do you have any other guidelines that i might follow to make a better port > and avoid pitfalls? (ie. keeping logs and diffs) I've been attempting to build a cross-development tree with binutils 2.9.1 and egcs-1.1b, Greg Lehey gave me a poke about this. I didn't realize the sparc64 code was in such bad shape. Ugh, what a mess! I think I've got it building now; I'll keep track of what I had to symlink, copy, and change if it actually works. > I kinda think setting up a single user cvs tree is overkill at the moment > :) any suggestions? Do it anyhow. It only takes a few minutes, and you can then share what you have with everyone else through pserver. > I need to find some docs or trace through some code to understand the ABI > of sparc-elf (ie. which registers are temporary, arguments, globals, > reserved) Working on it... Looking at the NetBSD code would be helpful on this. There is no good reason to differ from them; this will help our future NetBSD/OpenBSD portability. SPARC registers are really different from the Intel world. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Nov 28 23:53:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03378 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:53:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tapti.hss.hns.com (tapti.hss.hns.com [139.85.242.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03373 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:53:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kchowksey@hss.hns.com) Received: from chambal.hss.hns.com (chambal.hss.hns.com [139.85.243.6]) by tapti.hss.hns.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18057; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:08:44 +0530 (IST) Received: (from kchowksey@localhost) by chambal.hss.hns.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) id OAA23721; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:04:09 +0530 (IST) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:04:09 +0530 (IST) Message-Id: <199811290834.OAA23721@chambal.hss.hns.com> From: Kapil Chowksey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Huzzah! In-Reply-To: References: <19981128204917.CUXT5035.fep03-svc@winworkstation> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 November, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > ~ % file t.o > t.o: ELF 64-bit MSB relocatable, RS6000, version 1 > > The RS6000 thing bugs me but it just seems to be bad magic in the file(1) > datafiles. This thing will bug the PROM also. Apply this patch to allow the PROM to boot elf images created by binutils : --- contrib/binutils/include/elf/common.h.old Mon Sep 7 23:07:15 1998 +++ contrib/binutils/include/elf/common.h Wed Nov 4 18:11:39 1998 @@ -82,8 +82,6 @@ #define EM_MIPS_RS4_BE 10 /* MIPS R4000 big-endian */ -#define EM_SPARC64 11 /* SPARC v9 (not official) 64-bit */ - #define EM_PARISC 15 /* HPPA */ #define EM_SPARC32PLUS 18 /* Sun's "v8plus" */ @@ -91,6 +89,8 @@ #define EM_PPC 20 /* PowerPC */ #define EM_SH 42 /* Hitachi SH */ + +#define EM_SPARC64 43 /* SPARC v9 (PROM wants this) 64-bit */ /* If it is necessary to assign new unofficial EM_* values, please pick large random numbers (0x8523, 0xa7f2, etc.) to minimize the chances of collision To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message