From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Dec 6 17:13:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27341 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:13:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep02-svc.tin.it (mta02-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27321 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.235.49]) by fep02-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981207011321.BOC17948.fep02-svc@winworkstation> for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 02:13:21 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 02:16:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary=Message-Boundary-6822 Subject: Developers List [Updated] X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981207011321.BOC17948.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --Message-Boundary-6822 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Here there's the last version of the developers list. Sorry if I post it now, but I'm a student and I have done an exam in these days... [about compilers and languages ;)] Read carefully everything. Thanks. Attachment description: ----------8<----------8<----------8<----------8<----------8<----------8< There are 3 files: Intro, Old-Sparc and Ultra-Sparc. Intro -> Introduction Old-Sparc -> the old Sparc (Sparc32) group Ultra-Sparc -> the Ultra Sparc group Actually, there's no "this guy is doing this" because, when you'll have a clearer idea of "What I want to do!" send me a message and I'll include near the name field a new "is doing" field. It will appear as: Name: SuperMan (superman@world.com) -> saving the world. Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ --Message-Boundary-6822 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Text from file 'Intro.txt' Sparc Developer List -------------------- Home of the FreeBSD-Sparc is mailing list: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG actual home page: http://www.freebsd.org/~obrien/freebsd-sparc/ Here there is the "complete" list of old-Sparc and Ultra Sparc developers. If you find some errors please contact me! Suggestions welcome! ;) Note 1: Aren't you in this list? Send me a private message and I'll include you immediately! Note 2: Do you want to "unsubscribe" from this list? Again, send me a message. author: Paolo Di Francesco email: paipai@tin.it --Message-Boundary-6822 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Text from file 'OldSparc.txt' Old-Sparc Developer List ------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Christoph Haas Name: Stefan Molnar Stefan Molnar Name: Lyndon Griffin Name: Mark Newton Name: Erik Cameron Name: Wes Peters Name : pfm@slack.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Christoph Haas Actively Dev: No Why: Not enough time and knowledge, but willing to learn by doing ;-) SPARC: SS4 Time: 2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Stefan Molnar Stefan Molnar Actively Dev: Tester? Why: I am not much of a coder, also I work at Sun Doing Solaris Stress Testing mainly alpha/beta versions of Solaris. Sparc: Sparc sun4c and sun4m Time: 5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Lyndon Griffin Actively Dev: Not currently Why: lack of experience Sparc: SparcStation 10, SparcStation 20, USparc, SPARCstation 330 (primary) Time: 3 Note : Prefer to develop/test for "old sparc," can also perform some limited testing on my production ultra ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name : Mark Newton Actively Dev: Not right now Why: No time, no UltraSPARC Sparc: Yup - sun4c architecture SPARCstation IPC (currently NetBSD) Time: 3 I only have old SPARC, but I think a priority should be uSPARC development. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Erik Cameron , Activeley Dev: not actively coding... Why: Learning neccesary skills to be of use in that dept. :) Currently working on building FreeBSD userland on top of OpenBSD 2.3/sparc kernel on a SparcStation IPX. Time: Flexible for time; gimme a 4 before standard deviation. Note: Will be working on "old sparcs." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Wes Peters Actively Dev: Willing to work on userland stuff, compiler tools, and TCP/IP networking code. Sparc: SPARCstation 5/170, and possibly UltraSPARC 5 Time: 2 Note: Yes. old-SPARC first, because I can afford one of those at home. ;^) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: pfm@slack.net Actively Dev: I can develop/port userland utilities and do some device driver work. I will just need either a place to start from (NetBSD/OpenBSD drivers?) or someone to work with in building them. I can also test on the Sun4m and probably Sun4u platform (hopefully) Sparc: I have a ss5 and a ss2, like I said above, I might be able to grab a few ultras. Time: 10-20 hours a week. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --Message-Boundary-6822 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Text from file 'UltraSparc.txt' Ultra-Sparc Developer List -------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Paolo Di Francesco (paipai@tin.it) ---> ???? Name: Rik Schneider (rik@deranged.schneider.org) ---> Tester Name: Lyndon Griffin ---> Tester Name: Joe Orthoefer ---> Tester Name: Alfred Perlstein ---> Coder Name: Nobuhiro Kurihara ---> Tester Name: "Fernando P. Schapachnik" Name: pfm@slack.net ---> Coder Name: Bill Swingle (Unfurl ) ---> ??? Name: Jason George (jbg@masterplan.org) ---> Tester Name: Matthew Jacob ---> Tester Name: Stephen Kiernan ---> Coder Name: Christopher Nielsen ---> Coder (after 1/1/99) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Paolo Di Francesco (paipai@tin.it) Actively Dev: No Why: No Sparc Hardware Sparc: No Time: 5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Rik Schneider (rik@deranged.schneider.org) Actively Dev: When I find Time Why: See Above SPARC: SS-1+ always (Mine, No services) SS-1000 I can experiment with for a few hours a week US-5 No more than 40mins per month Time: 2-3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Lyndon Griffin Actively Dev: Tester? Why: lack of experience Sparc: SparcStation 10, SparcStation 20, USparc, SPARCstation 330 (primary) Time: 3 Note : can only perform some limited testing on my production ultra ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Joe Orthoefer Activeley Dev: no. Why: Time constraints, lack of expertise, should have a block of time coming up in December, need to reorganize 4 years worth of files to get disk space on my freebsd boxes to get a stable developement environment for some cross tools/source repos. Sparc: My wife's Ultra 5. Plan to set things up to allow netbooting and to pull a serial cable over to my work area for a console... Time: Currently rate a 1, December may see 3. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Alfred Perlstein Activeley Dev: Yes going to start working on code in the next week. Sparc: Yes i have an ultra sparc Time: It's hard to say about time, i'll say very little time during the week, but most of the whole weekends. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Nobuhiro Kurihara Actively Dev: N/A Why: cannot promiss to continue the work due to bisiness trips, and others. Sparc: AX, AXi, AXmp, CP1500, and pthers Time: 3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: "Fernando P. Schapachnik" Actively Dev: No Why: No time, no box. Sparc: Yes (2 Ultra-1 167 Mhz) Time: 2 My boxes are productive servers. I can test userland code that can be run from Solaris, if such a thing exist. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: pfm@slack.net Actively Dev: I can develop/port userland utilities and do some device driver work. I will just need either a place to start from (NetBSD/OpenBSD drivers?) or someone to work with in building them. I can also test on the Sun4m and probably Sun4u platform (hopefully) Sparc: I have a ss5 and a ss2, like I said above, I might be able to grab a few ultras. Time: 10-20 hours a week. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Bill Swingle (Unfurl ) Active Dev?: No, but I really have a desire to see this port happen and want to learn by jumping in head first Sparc: I have a SS5 on my desk at work and a farm of U2/300's that I am responsible for. I cant really do much with these machines as they are production boxen. I do have plans to purchase a SS5 soon though. Time: 2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Jason George (jbg@masterplan.org) Actively Dev: No, but will test code as available Why: Am currently constrained by other projects SPARC: SPARCStation 5/110, OpenBSD 2.2 Time: 2 Note: Will offer bandwidth and disk to mirror "repositories" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Matthew Jacob Actively Dev: Not really- see below. Why: I am completely overcommited and am promised to the FreeBSD/alpha port after the CAM work if I get any time at all. Will answer architecture and internals (solaris) questions (former Sun DDI group employee- actually did the Sun4 (4/470) solaris port as a DDI proof of concept port 7 years ago...). I will ensure that the SBus and PCI Qlogic 'isp' drivers work on sparc when you get that far. May end up doing a socal SBus driver for Linux so might do one for *BSD. If I get any spare time at all, might do a conjoint fas/esp HBA driver. Can maybe make available some testing resources. SPARC: sun4d, sun4m, sun4c, sun4u (PCI) Time: 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Stephen Kiernan Actively Dev: Yes Why: I can work on pretty much anything we need to get done. Probably start with the work that was done previously on boot loading while others get the userspace working under NetBSD or similar. Sparc: Sparc sun4m and sun4u (Ultra 1 200MHz) Time: 5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Christopher Nielsen Actively Dev: No; after 1/1/99 Why: Waiting to purchase hardware Sparc: SS1, buying UltraSPARCengine AXi based machine after 1/1/99 Time: 1 until after 1/1/99, 2-4 after 1/1/99 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --Message-Boundary-6822-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Dec 6 17:13:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27377 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:13:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep02-svc.tin.it (mta02-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27366 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:13:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.235.49]) by fep02-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981207011336.BOI17948.fep02-svc@winworkstation> for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 02:13:36 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 02:16:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary=Message-Boundary-16963 Subject: Developer's Kit [UpDated] X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981207011336.BOI17948.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --Message-Boundary-16963 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Please help me to improve this document! Read it and enjoy yourself! ;) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ --Message-Boundary-16963 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Text from file 'DeveloperKit.txt' >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------< | Developer's Kit - How to live happy and develop Sparc Code | >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------< This document is the Developer's kit", everything you must have in the desktop near to you to develop Ultra and Sparc32 code. Please help me to improve this document. Note 1: this is not the Tester-kit. If you are not actively writing code (or you don't want to write it) skip this document. Thanks. Note 2: Suggestions? Send them to me Paolo Di Francesco or to: (FreeBSD-Sparc Mailing list) +--------+ |Hardware| +--------+ [Still not so clear if we can use Cross-compiler. So please wait until we know more about this.] UltraSparc -> if you want to develop for the UltraSparc sub-group OldSparc -> if you want to develop for the old Sparc sub-group This box must be avaible (possibly) every our of the day, to test the latest kernel code or to write code, or to test something else. You must have it avaible to reset it every time you want. Floppy disk. This could be very usefull because we can do the boot using the floppy without writing ethernet code. VideoCard: I don't know... OBP: possibly the same version... but could be useful if we have different ones... More ideas? For net booting this could be useful: >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------< [From a private discussion with David O'Brien] > > > > Not required at all. Sun's understand a vt100 console on ttya very well. > > OBP understand this? Wow! If OBP can't probe the keyboard, then it sends changes the console to ttya. SO much easier than PCs. For remote operation it works VERY well. You can setup a terminal server, leave a Sun bootable CDROM in the CDROM drive and you can even easily repair a badly corrupt disk remotely. > The second one (let's supose it's an Intel) acts as a Vt100 terminal and > Ultra send it data, right? Yes. I acutally use Minicom my my main FreeBSD with a null modem cable to a switch box to my Suns. The Suns haven't seen a monitor or keyboard in quite a while. > +---------------------+ +---------------------+ > | | | | > | | serial line | | > | | vt 100 | | > | |<--------------------->| | > | Master box | video | Slave box | > | | | | > | | | Ultra Sparc | > | | ethernet 10/100Mb | or | > | |<--------------------->| Sparc32 (oldSparc) | > | Intel/Sparc/etc... | kernel | | > | | | | > +---------------------+ +---------------------+ > > [do you like this picture?] Your description was exactly right. This is the setup for my sparcs at home. >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------< +-------------------+ |Hardware On The Web| +-------------------+ Here you'll find many useful link to specs and docs. http://www.sun.com/microelectronics/products/chipsets.html http://www.sun.com/microelectronics/products/modules.html http://www.sun.com/microelectronics/products/microproc.html Here you'll find the AXi MotherBoards. http://www.sun.com/microelectronics/SPARCengineUltraAXi/ The OpenBoot FAQ. http://www.sunworld.com/swol-10-1995/swol-10-openboot.html For anyone working on SBus, the following URL might be useful: http://www.troubadortech.com/sbus.html +--------+ |Software| +--------+ [We are still working on this, sorry] Kernel: 3.0-current or later installed somewhere. Official compiler-toolchain: (Work in progress). Cross-compiling?: (Work in progress). +-----+ |Books| +-----+ UltraSparc only: The Sparc Architecture Manual/Version 9 by David L. Weaver, Tom Germond, Inc Staff Sparc International Price: about $45.00 Paperback (February 1994) Prentice Hall; ISBN: 0130992275 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.69 x 9.19 x 6.98 Sparc32 only: Inc., SPARC International "The SPARC Architecture Manual/Version 8" Prentice Hall 1994 ISBN 0-13-825001-4 Both: Lyle, James D. "SBus: Information, Applications, and Experience" Springer Verlag 1992 ISBN 0-387-97862-3 Shanley, Tom, Don Anderson "PCI System Architecture/3ed" Addison-Wesley Longman 1995 ISBN 0-201-40993-3 Panic! : Unix System Crash Dump Analysis by Chris Drake, Kimberley Brown Paperback - 496 pages Bk&Cd-Rom edition (July 1995) Prentice Hall; ISBN: 0131493868 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.89 x 9.26 x 7.06 +----------+ |On the Web| +----------+ Nice site. http://www.sunhelp.com Links to Sparc documents. http://www.csn.net/~bediger/sparc.tech.links.html >-- From the Linux Sparc (old and Ultra) project: --< Sparc32 - No UltraSparc http://www.geog.ubc.ca/s_linux.html UltraSparc http://ultra.linux.czwww.sunhelp.com +-------+ |UpLoads| +-------+ Where can I upload my files? Actually we do not have an official site, but you can: >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------< [Message from David O'Brien (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org)] Upload them to ftp://ftp.nuxi.com/incoming, and send me an email listing the files and describing them. I will put them on www.freebsd.org off the sparc webpage. >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------< Mirrors, other sites in the world...etc...: Work in progress. --Message-Boundary-16963-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Dec 6 18:12:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02931 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 18:12:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA02926 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 18:12:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pacemakertaker@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19981207021420.651.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [24.0.36.79] by send103.yahoomail.com; Sun, 06 Dec 1998 18:14:20 PST Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 18:14:20 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian D. McGrew" Subject: ... To: FreeBSD-Sparc@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey, All ... Within the next week, I'll have complete development access to my Ultra 5. At that time, I would be anxious to work on the FreeBSD Sparc port. I'm s learning programmer and will have evenings and weekends to work on it. I spend all the time I can learning and testing. If I can't do it and get it working properly, I'll ask "Why" not "Someone do it for me". If you would be so kind - let me know where to start and what has been done so far - and I'll dive right in... Look forward to working with all of you on this! Brian D. McGrew gowebnow@home.com or pacemakertaker@yahoo.com == Brian D. McGrew, Owner Temecula Valley Web Service _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Dec 8 23:18:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA13225 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 23:18:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13220 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 23:18:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA42627 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 02:22:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 02:22:03 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: working on egcs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have egcs 1.1.1 producing what looks like sparc code, gas doesn't choke on it so it seems ok. I've applied the patches suggest to me by Kapil Chowksey, but i'm a bit worried, all the patches from the ultralinux distribution seem to have never made it into egcs. I'm keeping the best diff log i can at the moment, however I need guidance now. Shall i hand patch all the files so they are akin to the 2.7.2.2 post-patch files? Or would this be suicidal because egcs's inner workings may have changed drastically? I'm sorry i haven't put anything up for cvs as of yet, the reason is mostly time and that i'm considering the only person that's given me stuff to work on has been Kapil. I guess if we get one more active developer i will definetly get things up in a more public way. thanks to all for suggestions and help so far, Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 06:08:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18611 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:08:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep02-svc.tin.it (mta02-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA18594 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:08:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.235.14]) by fep02-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981209140653.DNBZ23290.fep02-svc@winworkstation> for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:06:53 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:06:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Read this... X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981209140653.DNBZ23290.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,29695,00.html Can someone tell Sun to support us? 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 06:33:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20457 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:33:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep01-svc.tin.it (mta01-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20452 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:33:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.235.14]) by fep04-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981209140406.DCEE14647.fep04-svc@winworkstation> for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:04:06 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:06:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Read this... X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981209140406.DCEE14647.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,29695,00.html Can someone tell Sun to support us? 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 08:30:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29841 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:30:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep02-svc.tin.it (mta02-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA29836 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.234.181]) by fep02-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981209162952.EKNG23290.fep02-svc@winworkstation> for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:29:52 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:13:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Read this... X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981209162952.EKNG23290.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,29695,00.html Can someone tell Sun to support us? 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 09:07:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02799 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:07:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02794 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:07:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA43135; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:10:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:10:31 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Paolo Di Francesco cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: <19981209162952.EKNG23290.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > > > http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,29695,00.html > > > Can someone tell Sun to support us? 8) > Hopefully they'll see the light soon enough. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 09:47:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06683 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:47:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06677 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:47:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA22150; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:47:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19981209094726.R18642@nuxi.com> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:47:26 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Alfred Perlstein , Paolo Di Francesco Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19981209162952.EKNG23290.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 12:10:31PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,29695,00.html > > Can someone tell Sun to support us? 8) > > Hopefully they'll see the light soon enough. Not unless they actually hear from *us* and others. The Linux fanatics foam at the mouth and scream at (if not demand) vendors to support them. Has anyone that is capable of making real progress contacted Sun to ask for a development machine? Sun offered Jordan 2-3 Ultra machines 1-1.5 years ago to use in porting FreeBSD to the Ultra. Jordan turned them down, saying that FreeBSD wasn't interested [at the time] unless Sun also gave some $$ to support maintenance of the port once it was done. At the time there didn't seem to be any/many FreeBSD developers interested in the Sparc. And the idea of making the Ports Collection run on the Sparc is a very scarry thought. We have yet to see just how well we will support the Alphas. Because of Jordan's/FreeBSD's response, Sun then decided to have one of their own port FreeBSD to the Ultra. This is where Jason Evans . To quote one of Jason's emails: As has been alluded to in some of Jordan Hubbard's email, Sun Microelectronics (SME, the processor division of Sun) recently discussed paying FreeBSD core to officially support a port of FreeBSD to SPARC. These plans fell through in some way (I wasn't part of the discussion, so I don't know details), but SME is having me work on the port. -and- A while back, SME approached FreeBSD core and offered monetary compensation of some nature (I don't know the details) in exchange for an official UltraSPARC port. FreeBSD core turned down this offer. Once again, I don't know details, but one of the main statements made (actually somewhat inferred) by Jordan Hubbard was that SME's offer was not of major interest since to be of long term use to FreeBSD, such a proposal would need to include support for a number of years from someone internal to Sun. There is no reason we can't, provided someone is prepared to spear head it, ask Sun for a simular offer. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 10:06:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08704 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08699 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:06:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA43218; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:09:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:09:52 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: "David O'Brien" cc: Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: <19981209094726.R18642@nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, David O'Brien wrote: > > > http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,29695,00.html > > > Can someone tell Sun to support us? 8) > > > > Hopefully they'll see the light soon enough. > > Not unless they actually hear from *us* and others. > The Linux fanatics foam at the mouth and scream at (if not demand) > vendors to support them. Yes, however my lack of experiance is a concern to me. I do not wish to lead this argument/proposal to Sun, it may give people a bad impression of the FreeBSD community if my efforts fall through, as well an alienate myself from the FreeBSD community for causing that. I'm being conservative right now because I don't have support from core, I do however have a lot of encouragement (which i really appreciate) A few people have stepped up and helped a lot. What i'm basically saying is, unless someone from core wants to manage this project and will try to make contacts, i'd rather this remain more of a silent effort until we have something that is well... a vast improvement over what we have now. > > Has anyone that is capable of making real progress contacted Sun to ask > for a development machine? Sun offered Jordan 2-3 Ultra machines 1-1.5 > years ago to use in porting FreeBSD to the Ultra. > > Jordan turned them down, saying that FreeBSD wasn't interested [at the > time] unless Sun also gave some $$ to support maintenance of the port once > it was done. At the time there didn't seem to be any/many FreeBSD > developers interested in the Sparc. And the idea of making the Ports > Collection run on the Sparc is a very scarry thought. We have yet to see > just how well we will support the Alphas. Bad Jordan! :) It makes sense though, FreeBSD is still a project and not a commercial entity, therefore much more support from the vendor would be benificial. > Because of Jordan's/FreeBSD's response, Sun then decided to have one of > their own port FreeBSD to the Ultra. This is where Jason Evans > . To quote one of Jason's emails: > > As has been alluded to in some of Jordan Hubbard's email, Sun > Microelectronics (SME, the processor division of Sun) recently > discussed paying FreeBSD core to officially support a port of FreeBSD > to SPARC. These plans fell through in some way (I wasn't part of the > discussion, so I don't know details), but SME is having me work on > the port. > > -and- > > A while back, SME approached FreeBSD core and offered monetary > compensation of some nature (I don't know the details) in exchange > for an official UltraSPARC port. FreeBSD core turned down this offer. > Once again, I don't know details, but one of the main statements made > (actually somewhat inferred) by Jordan Hubbard was that SME's offer > was not of major interest since to be of long term use to FreeBSD, > such a proposal would need to include support for a number of years > from someone internal to Sun. > > There is no reason we can't, provided someone is prepared to spear head > it, ask Sun for a simular offer. > Will someone with more courage and experiance than I please speak up about this, perhaps contact sun? I hope people understand that the only reason i shell'd out 3k for a an ultra was to aid/start the port. This isn't a trivial thing to me. -Alfred On another note i have to figure out the syscall mechanism we will be using to i can code libc asm hooks correctly. > -- > -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 10:29:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11084 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:29:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feral-gw.feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11075 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:29:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by feral-gw.feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06652; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:28:19 -0800 Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:28:19 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@feral-gw Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Alfred Perlstein cc: "David O'Brien" , Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Some advice: Do the project because it interests you. Don't do it contingent upon help from or approval from anyone. Dave Miller && Jakub and many others literally put in *years* of hard and by and large very good work for the UltraLinux port. Recognition and support from Sun may or may not have been a goal, but I'd put money on them having done the work even if they knew that Sun would never care and would, in fact, be hostile to them doing it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 10:49:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13029 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:49:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13024 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:49:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA43269; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:53:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:53:24 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Matthew Jacob cc: "David O'Brien" , Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Matthew Jacob wrote: > > Some advice: Do the project because it interests you. Don't do it > contingent upon help from or approval from anyone. exactly my intention, i guess something got lost in my rambling. i do NOT want to raise a ruckus at all, well maybe :) but not until a lot more is done. -Alfred > > Dave Miller && Jakub and many others literally put in *years* of hard and > by and large very good work for the UltraLinux port. Recognition and > support from Sun may or may not have been a goal, but I'd put money on > them having done the work even if they knew that Sun would never care and > would, in fact, be hostile to them doing it. > a'yup... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 10:59:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14264 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:59:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omahpop1.omah.uswest.net (omahpop1.omah.uswest.net [204.26.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA14259 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@open-systems.net) Received: (qmail 11277 invoked by alias); 9 Dec 1998 18:58:52 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 11245 invoked by uid 0); 9 Dec 1998 18:58:50 -0000 Received: from dialupc179.ne.uswest.net (HELO pinkfloyd.open-systems.net) (209.180.97.179) by omahpop1.omah.uswest.net with SMTP; 9 Dec 1998 18:58:50 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:58:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Open Systems Inc." To: Alfred Perlstein cc: "David O'Brien" , Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason I *believe*, after stating he was no longer going to work on the UltraSparc port, did agree to give whatever support he could to anyone who wanted to take up the bacl on the port. Getting programming doc's from sun since he is an employee, etc.. he was gonna help all he could. I *believe* that is what he said. It's in the archive somewhere. Someone might want to mail him and see what he can do? jasone@canonware.com Chris -- "Join Team-FreeBSD on cracking RC5-64! grab you client now and HELP OUT! http://www.distributed.net/cgi/select.cgi" ===================================| Open Systems FreeBSD Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.8 is available now! | Phone: 402-573-9124 -----------------------------------| 3335 N. 103 Plaza #14, Omaha, NE 68134 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting, Network Engineering, Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 12:37:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24290 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:37:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA24283 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:37:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA11402; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:47:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199812092047.HAA11402@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: from Alfred Perlstein at "Dec 9, 98 01:09:52 pm" To: bright@hotjobs.com (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:47:48 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Will someone with more courage and experiance than I please speak up about > this, perhaps contact sun? Please _don't_ ask Sun for anything until you have a working port on limited hardware. I doubt that anyone following this list would be prepared to spend $$$ based on what has been said so far. Those people who have access to Sun machines should be able to do a port with neither financial nor moral support from Sun. If you want this sort of support, you have to earn it. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 16:32:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21441 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:32:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21435 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:32:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA01596; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:01:43 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA34356; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:01:40 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981210110139.U12688@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:01:39 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Open Systems Inc." , Alfred Perlstein Cc: "David O'Brien" , Paolo Di Francesco , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Open Systems Inc. on Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 12:58:48PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 9 December 1998 at 12:58:48 -0600, Open Systems Inc. wrote: > > Jason I *believe*, after stating he was no longer going to work on the > UltraSparc port, did agree to give whatever support he could to anyone who > wanted to take up the bacl on the port. Getting programming doc's from > sun since he is an employee, etc.. he was gonna help all he could. > > I *believe* that is what he said. It's in the archive somewhere. > Someone might want to mail him and see what he can do? Yes, Jason offered to help, but that was Jason as an individual, not Jason as a Sun employee. Still, he may be able to point you at correct people to talk to at Sun--*if* it's a good idea to do so. See John Birrell's note of caution. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 16:35:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21844 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:35:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21839 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:35:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA01608; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:05:17 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA34370; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:05:16 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981210110516.V12688@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:05:16 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: John Birrell , Alfred Perlstein Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... References: <199812092047.HAA11402@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199812092047.HAA11402@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 07:47:48AM +1100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 10 December 1998 at 7:47:48 +1100, John Birrell wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: >> Will someone with more courage and experiance than I please speak up about >> this, perhaps contact sun? > > Please _don't_ ask Sun for anything until you have a working port on > limited hardware. I doubt that anyone following this list would be > prepared to spend $$$ based on what has been said so far. Those people > who have access to Sun machines should be able to do a port with neither > financial nor moral support from Sun. If you want this sort of support, > you have to earn it. I suppose I should point you people to http://www.lemis.com/x/sunworld-bsd.html, which is a draft of an article I've submitted to SunWorld. This is for review only in the present form; please don't distribute it, but I'd be interested in comments. One thing in particular occurred to me in this context: why does Sun want Linux or *BSD? On the whole, Solaris is a pretty good operating system, and neither Linux nor *BSD can equal it. What advantage would I have running FreeBSD on my UltraSparc? Or should we be doing what NetBSD and OpenBSD are already doing and running it on older (32 bit) Sparc hardware? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 16:41:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22562 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:41:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hillbilly.hayseed.net (dnai-207-181-249-194.dsl.dnai.com [207.181.249.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22552 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:41:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: from localhost (IDENT:root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hillbilly.hayseed.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06213; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:37:46 -0800 Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:37:49 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: Christopher Nielsen To: Paolo Di Francesco cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: <19981209162952.EKNG23290.fep02-svc@winworkstation> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Paolo Di Francesco wrote: > http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,29695,00.html > > > Can someone tell Sun to support us? 8) I'm working on this. I have some friends at Sun that will be setting up introductions with the appropriate people over the next couple days. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 16:52:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23459 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:52:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA23443 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:52:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kurihara@rindou.Japan.Sun.COM) Received: from Japan.Sun.COM ([129.158.31.2]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id QAA19281 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:49:35 -0800 Received: from pine.Japan.Sun.COM by Japan.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4-sd.fkk200) id JAA11536; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:46:27 +0900 Received: from uganju.Japan.Sun.COM by pine.Japan.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA03947; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:49:08 +0900 Received: from uganju by uganju.Japan.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA02041; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:49:02 +0900 Message-Id: <199812100049.JAA02041@uganju.Japan.Sun.COM> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:49:02 +0900 (JST) From: Nobuhiro Kurihara Reply-To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.0 CDE Version 1.2 SunOS 5.6 sun4u sparc Content-Type: text X-Sun-Text-Type: ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have already been asking if Sun can provide machine(s) for this project informally. If we seriously want to have support from Sun, we have to show them the (potential of) good market for this OS. And convince them the porting can be done. I don't ask Sun to provide $$$ nor as official request from FreeBSD- SPARC. I've been asking about machines only. Of course, I'm speaking here privately. I'm not a Sun's spokesperson. > > > > http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,29695,00.html > > > Can someone tell Sun to support us? 8) > > > > Hopefully they'll see the light soon enough. > > Not unless they actually hear from *us* and others. > The Linux fanatics foam at the mouth and scream at (if not demand) > vendors to support them. > > Has anyone that is capable of making real progress contacted Sun to ask > for a development machine? Sun offered Jordan 2-3 Ultra machines 1-1.5 > years ago to use in porting FreeBSD to the Ultra. > > Jordan turned them down, saying that FreeBSD wasn't interested [at the > time] unless Sun also gave some $$ to support maintenance of the port once > it was done. At the time there didn't seem to be any/many FreeBSD > developers interested in the Sparc. And the idea of making the Ports > Collection run on the Sparc is a very scarry thought. We have yet to see > just how well we will support the Alphas. > > Because of Jordan's/FreeBSD's response, Sun then decided to have one of > their own port FreeBSD to the Ultra. This is where Jason Evans > . To quote one of Jason's emails: > > As has been alluded to in some of Jordan Hubbard's email, Sun > Microelectronics (SME, the processor division of Sun) recently > discussed paying FreeBSD core to officially support a port of FreeBSD > to SPARC. These plans fell through in some way (I wasn't part of the > discussion, so I don't know details), but SME is having me work on > the port. > > -and- > > A while back, SME approached FreeBSD core and offered monetary > compensation of some nature (I don't know the details) in exchange > for an official UltraSPARC port. FreeBSD core turned down this offer. > Once again, I don't know details, but one of the main statements made > (actually somewhat inferred) by Jordan Hubbard was that SME's offer > was not of major interest since to be of long term use to FreeBSD, > such a proposal would need to include support for a number of years > from someone internal to Sun. > > There is no reason we can't, provided someone is prepared to spear head > it, ask Sun for a simular offer. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 17:11:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26598 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:11:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep01-svc.tin.it (mta01-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26574 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:11:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.104]) by fep01-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981210011112.EMA26585.fep01-svc@winworkstation> for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:11:12 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:14:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Read this... X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981210011112.EMA26585.fep01-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Will someone with more courage and experiance than I please speak up about > > this, perhaps contact sun? > > Please _don't_ ask Sun for anything until you have a working port on > limited hardware. I doubt that anyone following this list would be > prepared to spend $$$ based on what has been said so far. Those people > who have access to Sun machines should be able to do a port with neither > financial nor moral support from Sun. If you want this sort of support, > you have to earn it. Let me explain the meaning of the word "support" from my personal point of view: 1) I haven't any Sun Hardware. I'm a student and I cannot pay 3000$ for a Sun Ultra5, only to "play" with it. I would have an AXi motherboard (good for experiments) but it costs too much. So, for the hardware I would have something like 50% of the price (no free hardware, at actual stage). Why Sun could give me/us this: I have not 3000$, and actually there are few persons with an Ultra box, so _if_ Sun wants more developers on this project they must help in some way. This is the situation it's not "charity"... Please note also the word "Open" also means: I can buy it for a good price. 2) Docs, pdf and other things.... On Intel you can find _anything_ about "how it boots", "how it works", books and docs. If you go in a bookstore you can find many books about "everything". Not the same situation on Sparc. So again: "Open" means I can read "how it works" without paying 500$... 3) Moral support. Actually, if Sun (SME) will put something on-line about the harware we can do a good job (something that works/boots on limited hardware) with no moral support. We can do experiments where "I don't know how it works" and read where "it's documented at page..." Thanks for youe time 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 17:13:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27057 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:13:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep04-svc.tin.it (mta04-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26985 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:13:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.104]) by fep04-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981210011336.GHD17259.fep04-svc@winworkstation> for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:13:36 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:14:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Read this... X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981210011336.GHD17259.fep04-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Will someone with more courage and experiance than I please speak up about > > this, perhaps contact sun? > > Please _don't_ ask Sun for anything until you have a working port on > limited hardware. I doubt that anyone following this list would be > prepared to spend $$$ based on what has been said so far. Those people > who have access to Sun machines should be able to do a port with neither > financial nor moral support from Sun. If you want this sort of support, > you have to earn it. Let me explain the meaning of the word "support" from my personal point of view: 1) I haven't any Sun Hardware. I'm a student and I cannot pay 3000$ for a Sun Ultra5, only to "play" with it. I would have an AXi motherboard (good for experiments) but it costs too much. So, for the hardware I would have something like 50% of the price (no free hardware, at actual stage). Why Sun could give me/us this: I have not 3000$, and actually there are few persons with an Ultra box, so _if_ Sun wants more developers on this project they must help in some way. This is the situation it's not "charity"... Please note also the word "Open" also means: I can buy it for a good price. 2) Docs, pdf and other things.... On Intel you can find _anything_ about "how it boots", "how it works", books and docs. If you go in a bookstore you can find many books about "everything". Not the same situation on Sparc. So again: "Open" means I can read "how it works" without paying 500$... 3) Moral support. Actually, if Sun (SME) will put something on-line about the harware we can do a good job (something that works/boots on limited hardware) with no moral support. We can do experiments where "I don't know how it works" and read where "it's documented at page..." Thanks for youe time 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 17:15:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27336 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:15:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27318 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:15:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paipai@box4.tin.it) Received: from winworkstation ([212.216.236.104]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19981210011518.AJM6660.fep03-svc@winworkstation> for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:15:18 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paolo Di Francesco" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:14:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Read this... X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <19981210011518.AJM6660.fep03-svc@winworkstation> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Will someone with more courage and experiance than I please speak up about > > this, perhaps contact sun? > > Please _don't_ ask Sun for anything until you have a working port on > limited hardware. I doubt that anyone following this list would be > prepared to spend $$$ based on what has been said so far. Those people > who have access to Sun machines should be able to do a port with neither > financial nor moral support from Sun. If you want this sort of support, > you have to earn it. Let me explain the meaning of the word "support" from my personal point of view: 1) I haven't any Sun Hardware. I'm a student and I cannot pay 3000$ for a Sun Ultra5, only to "play" with it. I would have an AXi motherboard (good for experiments) but it costs too much. So, for the hardware I would have something like 50% of the price (no free hardware, at actual stage). Why Sun could give me/us this: I have not 3000$, and actually there are few persons with an Ultra box, so _if_ Sun wants more developers on this project they must help in some way. This is the situation it's not "charity"... Please note also the word "Open" also means: I can buy it for a good price. 2) Docs, pdf and other things.... On Intel you can find _anything_ about "how it boots", "how it works", books and docs. If you go in a bookstore you can find many books about "everything". Not the same situation on Sparc. So again: "Open" means I can read "how it works" without paying 500$... 3) Moral support. Actually, if Sun (SME) will put something on-line about the harware we can do a good job (something that works/boots on limited hardware) with no moral support. We can do experiments where "I don't know how it works" and read where "it's documented at page..." Thanks for youe time 8) Ciao Ciao Paolo Di Francesco _ ->B<- All Recycled Bytes Message ... ~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 17:26:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29139 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:26:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.naviant.com (mail.naviant.com [207.106.77.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA29134 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:26:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lgriffin@naviant.com) Received: from plato by mail.naviant.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA05282; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:26:05 -0500 From: "Lyndon Griffin" To: "freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD. ORG" Subject: RE: Read this... Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:28:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be23dc$5d49d690$6fe2f4cd@plato.naviant.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <19981210110516.V12688@freebie.lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > One thing in particular occurred to me in this context: why does Sun > want Linux or *BSD? On the whole, Solaris this week> is a pretty good operating system, and neither Linux nor > *BSD can equal it. What advantage would I have running FreeBSD on my > UltraSparc? Or should we be doing what NetBSD and OpenBSD are already > doing and running it on older (32 bit) Sparc hardware? I'd like to take a crack at answering this, and feel free to blast me if it's inappropriate... What advantage would I have running FreeBSD on my UltraSparc? 1) Price/total cost of ownership 2) open/free source - for the OS and many/most applications (no mysteries) 3) people like me that get a Sparc for free, excepting that it's ten years old and you can't get a current version of Solaris to run on it (I'll bet that Sun will not write current code for the 64bit machines when the 1mb SuperUltraGalacticSPARCs come out) 4) last I checked, the development cycle on *BSD or Linux is much much faster than on ANY commercial OS. Or should we be doing what NetBSD and OpenBSD are already doing and running it on older (32 bit) Sparc hardware? I'm a little biased in answering this - I only own 32 bit Sparcs, and I prefer FreeBSD to any other U**X type OS. <:) Lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 17:27:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29243 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:27:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29227 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:27:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA44355; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:31:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:31:10 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Greg Lehey cc: John Birrell , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: <19981210110516.V12688@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thursday, 10 December 1998 at 7:47:48 +1100, John Birrell wrote: > > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >> Will someone with more courage and experiance than I please speak up about > >> this, perhaps contact sun? > > > > Please _don't_ ask Sun for anything until you have a working port on > > limited hardware. I doubt that anyone following this list would be > > prepared to spend $$$ based on what has been said so far. Those people > > who have access to Sun machines should be able to do a port with neither > > financial nor moral support from Sun. If you want this sort of support, > > you have to earn it. > > I suppose I should point you people to > http://www.lemis.com/x/sunworld-bsd.html, which is a draft of an > article I've submitted to SunWorld. This is for review only in the > present form; please don't distribute it, but I'd be interested in > comments. > > One thing in particular occurred to me in this context: why does Sun > want Linux or *BSD? On the whole, Solaris this week> is a pretty good operating system, and neither Linux nor > *BSD can equal it. What advantage would I have running FreeBSD on my > UltraSparc? Or should we be doing what NetBSD and OpenBSD are already > doing and running it on older (32 bit) Sparc hardware? This is my reasoning why I want a sparc port: Solaris (even with source license) is basically closed source. It's being piecemealed down into as small pieces as possible in order to charge for each individual component. FreeBSD has very neat features NQNFS with leases is great, softupdates _DESTROYS_ solaris UFS without a question. Is it just me, or do most of the people on this list dislike SYSV-like setups? please excuse the mini sarcasm, but we could ditch FreeBSD all together and run SCO or SolX86 no? :) -Alfred > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 17:31:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29687 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:31:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29663 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:31:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA01875; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:01:09 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA34563; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:01:04 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981210120104.G12688@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:01:04 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: John Birrell , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... References: <19981210110516.V12688@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 08:31:10PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 9 December 1998 at 20:31:10 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Thursday, 10 December 1998 at 7:47:48 +1100, John Birrell wrote: >>> Alfred Perlstein wrote: >>>> Will someone with more courage and experiance than I please speak up about >>>> this, perhaps contact sun? >>> >>> Please _don't_ ask Sun for anything until you have a working port on >>> limited hardware. I doubt that anyone following this list would be >>> prepared to spend $$$ based on what has been said so far. Those people >>> who have access to Sun machines should be able to do a port with neither >>> financial nor moral support from Sun. If you want this sort of support, >>> you have to earn it. >> >> I suppose I should point you people to >> http://www.lemis.com/x/sunworld-bsd.html, which is a draft of an >> article I've submitted to SunWorld. This is for review only in the >> present form; please don't distribute it, but I'd be interested in >> comments. >> >> One thing in particular occurred to me in this context: why does Sun >> want Linux or *BSD? On the whole, Solaris > this week> is a pretty good operating system, and neither Linux nor >> *BSD can equal it. What advantage would I have running FreeBSD on my >> UltraSparc? Or should we be doing what NetBSD and OpenBSD are already >> doing and running it on older (32 bit) Sparc hardware? > > This is my reasoning why I want a sparc port: > > Solaris (even with source license) is basically closed source. It's being > piecemealed down into as small pieces as possible in order to charge for > each individual component. > > FreeBSD has very neat features NQNFS with leases is great, softupdates > _DESTROYS_ solaris UFS without a question. I thought that Solaris no longer used ufs. Don't they have something more advanced? > Is it just me, or do most of the people on this list dislike SYSV-like > setups? I do, anyway, but before we try to replace them, we should at least stand a chance. > please excuse the mini sarcasm, but we could ditch FreeBSD all > together and run SCO or SolX86 no? :) Sure :-) Don't get me wrong, I can see advantages. But at the moment, I'm more concerned with FreeBSD keeping up with the market place, and despite all the open source hype, we're having trouble. There are some basic architectural problems that need attention, and I'm not sure that the FreeBSD way of doing things is adequate. This is one of the reasons, BTW, that John Dyson stated for leaving the FreeBSD project. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 18:10:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06072 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 18:10:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06055 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 18:10:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA44460; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:14:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:14:03 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Greg Lehey cc: John Birrell , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: <19981210120104.G12688@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Wednesday, 9 December 1998 at 20:31:10 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >> On Thursday, 10 December 1998 at 7:47:48 +1100, John Birrell wrote: > >>> Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >>>> Will someone with more courage and experiance than I please speak up about > >>>> this, perhaps contact sun? > >>> > >>> Please _don't_ ask Sun for anything until you have a working port on > >>> limited hardware. I doubt that anyone following this list would be > >>> prepared to spend $$$ based on what has been said so far. Those people > >>> who have access to Sun machines should be able to do a port with neither > >>> financial nor moral support from Sun. If you want this sort of support, > >>> you have to earn it. > >> > >> I suppose I should point you people to > >> http://www.lemis.com/x/sunworld-bsd.html, which is a draft of an > >> article I've submitted to SunWorld. This is for review only in the > >> present form; please don't distribute it, but I'd be interested in > >> comments. > >> > >> One thing in particular occurred to me in this context: why does Sun > >> want Linux or *BSD? On the whole, Solaris >> this week> is a pretty good operating system, and neither Linux nor > >> *BSD can equal it. What advantage would I have running FreeBSD on my > >> UltraSparc? Or should we be doing what NetBSD and OpenBSD are already > >> doing and running it on older (32 bit) Sparc hardware? > > > > This is my reasoning why I want a sparc port: > > > > Solaris (even with source license) is basically closed source. It's being > > piecemealed down into as small pieces as possible in order to charge for > > each individual component. > > > > FreeBSD has very neat features NQNFS with leases is great, softupdates > > _DESTROYS_ solaris UFS without a question. > > I thought that Solaris no longer used ufs. Don't they have something > more advanced? You can get Veratias (sp?) but that's a commercial add-on. yup afaik they still use UFS, or at least it's the default. You can't even mount async. > > Is it just me, or do most of the people on this list dislike SYSV-like > > setups? > > I do, anyway, but before we try to replace them, we should at least > stand a chance. Sola-what? :) > > > please excuse the mini sarcasm, but we could ditch FreeBSD all > > together and run SCO or SolX86 no? :) > > Sure :-) > > Don't get me wrong, I can see advantages. But at the moment, I'm more > concerned with FreeBSD keeping up with the market place, and despite > all the open source hype, we're having trouble. There are some basic > architectural problems that need attention, and I'm not sure that the > FreeBSD way of doing things is adequate. This is one of the reasons, > BTW, that John Dyson stated for leaving the FreeBSD project. I'm not in the loop as these matters go, i'm not a commiter and haven't looked into what Dyson has talked about. I do wish he would come back continued work on the vm and smp systems would be most welcome I think. This may not be the best answer here, but i think FreeBSD is thriving just look how busy the cvs servers have been. Have you tried to cvsup lately? :) -Alfred > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 18:45:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11535 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 18:45:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11530 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 18:45:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mullaneb@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma (tecoma [198.133.170.1]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA16293 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:45:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:45:09 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Mullaney X-Sender: mullaneb@tecoma To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Read this... In-Reply-To: <000201be23dc$5d49d690$6fe2f4cd@plato.naviant.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Lyndon Griffin wrote: > 1) Price/total cost of ownership Every new Sparc machine I've seen comes with a solaris right-to-use license. And Solaris is free (well, shipping costs something) (Look at Suns free solaris program) > 3) people like me that get a Sparc for free, excepting that it's ten years > old and you can't get a current version of Solaris to run on it (I'll bet Solaris 2.7 Runs on sun-4c, sun-4d, sun-4m, sun-4u, and sun-4u1 So it will run on hardware that is about 8 years old How long are they supposed to support legacy hardware in current OS releases, in your view? Brian (It would be nice to get a slightly more modern OS for my 2/120, but I won't be bugging Sun about HW support any time soon) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 19:19:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16566 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.sminter.com.ar (ns2.sminter.com.ar [200.10.100.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16551 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:19:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Recabarren!fpscha@ns2.sminter.com.ar) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns2.sminter.com.ar (8.8.5/8.8.4) id AAA21811 for FreeBSD.ORG!freebsd-sparc; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:19:18 -0300 (GMT) >Received: (from fpscha@localhost) by localhost.schapachnik.com.ar (8.8.8/8.8.5) id AAA00761; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:04:44 -0300 (ART) From: "Fernando P. Schapachnik" Message-Id: <199812100304.AAA00761@localhost.schapachnik.com.ar> Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: <19981210110516.V12688@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Dec 10, 98 11:05:16 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:04:39 -0300 (ART) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, bright@hotjobs.com, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: fpscha@schapachnik.com.ar X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2.6 - http://www.freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org En un mensaje anterior Greg Lehey escribió: [...] > I suppose I should point you people to > http://www.lemis.com/x/sunworld-bsd.html, which is a draft of an > article I've submitted to SunWorld. This is for review only in the > present form; please don't distribute it, but I'd be interested in > comments. > > One thing in particular occurred to me in this context: why does Sun > want Linux or *BSD? On the whole, Solaris this week> is a pretty good operating system, and neither Linux nor > *BSD can equal it. What advantage would I have running FreeBSD on my > UltraSparc? Or should we be doing what NetBSD and OpenBSD are already Let me disagree with you. Having work with both of them I can say that FreeBSD is far superior from Solaris. More to the point: it is more secure, it's *open source* and it's more reliable when you have to change your setup several times a week (bringing up and down interfaces, daemons, etc.). Please note I haven't read your article yet (no conection at this time :(). Kind regards! Fernando P. Schapachnik fernando@schapachnik.com.ar /-------------------------------------------\ | Atención: Mensaje generado en entorno | | libre de productos MicroChot. | | No contiene HTML, adjuntos en Worst, | | ni basura similar. Leer con tranquilidad. | \-------------------------------------------/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 19:20:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16971 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:20:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16962 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA02616; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:49:59 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id NAA35003; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:49:57 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981210134957.V12688@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:49:57 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brian Mullaney , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... References: <000201be23dc$5d49d690$6fe2f4cd@plato.naviant.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Mullaney on Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 09:45:09PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 9 December 1998 at 21:45:09 -0500, Brian Mullaney wrote: > On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Lyndon Griffin wrote: >> 3) people like me that get a Sparc for free, excepting that it's ten years >> old and you can't get a current version of Solaris to run on it (I'll bet > > Solaris 2.7 Runs on sun-4c, sun-4d, sun-4m, sun-4u, and sun-4u1 > So it will run on hardware that is about 8 years old Well, it will *crawl* on hardware that is about 8 years old. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 21:38:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03186 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:38:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03180 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:38:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA06936; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:37:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <366F5E30.2ED4962C@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 22:37:52 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: John Birrell , Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... References: <199812092047.HAA11402@cimlogic.com.au> <19981210110516.V12688@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > One thing in particular occurred to me in this context: why does Sun > want Linux or *BSD? On the whole, Solaris this week> is a pretty good operating system, and neither Linux nor > *BSD can equal it. What advantage would I have running FreeBSD on my > UltraSparc? Or should we be doing what NetBSD and OpenBSD are already > doing and running it on older (32 bit) Sparc hardware? That depends on which Sun you're talking about. From the standpoint of Sun Microelectronics, the branch of Sun that sells hardware to OEMs, they would garner a royalty-free operating system that can be embeded into systems with no licensing fees. This would be a good incentive for some markets they play in, most certainly telecommunications (i.e. phone switches). -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Dec 9 23:37:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15084 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:37:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA15079 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:37:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA10041; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:36:40 +0200 (EET) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:36:40 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Greg Lehey cc: John Birrell , Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: <19981210110516.V12688@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thursday, 10 December 1998 at 7:47:48 +1100, John Birrell wrote: > > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >> Will someone with more courage and experiance than I please speak up about > >> this, perhaps contact sun? > > > > Please _don't_ ask Sun for anything until you have a working port on > > limited hardware. I doubt that anyone following this list would be > > prepared to spend $$$ based on what has been said so far. Those people > > who have access to Sun machines should be able to do a port with neither > > financial nor moral support from Sun. If you want this sort of support, > > you have to earn it. > > I suppose I should point you people to > http://www.lemis.com/x/sunworld-bsd.html, which is a draft of an > article I've submitted to SunWorld. This is for review only in the > present form; please don't distribute it, but I'd be interested in > comments. > > One thing in particular occurred to me in this context: why does Sun > want Linux or *BSD? On the whole, Solaris this week> is a pretty good operating system, and neither Linux nor > *BSD can equal it. What advantage would I have running FreeBSD on my > UltraSparc? Or should we be doing what NetBSD and OpenBSD are already > doing and running it on older (32 bit) Sparc hardware? Just a thought - Sun sells not only Ultra based systems but also Ultra processsors and motherboards. The emphasis of these is both OEMs and embedded market. Would they want that there is an OS with teh following parameters: a) Insert all the good sides of FreeBSD here, inc. VM, TCP/IP stack, etc. b) which is very low cost c) comes with source d) is under the BSD licence If the answer is yes, then we know why Sun might want FreeBSD on UltraSparc. Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 00:44:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22588 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:44:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hillbilly.hayseed.net (dnai-207-181-249-194.dsl.dnai.com [207.181.249.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22503; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:43:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: from localhost (IDENT:root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hillbilly.hayseed.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07619; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:43:19 -0800 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:43:24 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: Christopher Nielsen To: core@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm looking for a little guidance on how to handle a situation that has arisen. A friend within Sun is offering to make introductions to the appropriate people to discuss official support from Sun for an UltraSPARC port of FreeBSD. This could possibly include donated hardware and engineer support from within Sun. Before I proceed with this, I want to get the opinion of the core team and everyone else working on the port as to whether I should pursue this at all. I'm not sure who (if anyone) from core monitors the freebsd-sparc list, so I will provide a pseudo status of the port; people on freebsd-sparc, please feel free to jump in and correct me. At the moment it looks like we have the toolchain to do cross-compilation from x86 to sparc64-elf with the beginning of a port of the MD parts of the kernel. It's not much, but it's definitely a start. Thanks. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 01:38:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA28224 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:38:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA28000; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:37:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA29830; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:37:13 -0800 (PST) To: Christopher Nielsen cc: core@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:43:24 PST." Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:37:12 -0800 Message-ID: <29826.913282632@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > A friend within Sun is offering to make introductions to the appropriate > people to discuss official support from Sun for an UltraSPARC port of > FreeBSD. This could possibly include donated hardware and engineer support > from within Sun. Before I proceed with this, I want to get the opinion of > the core team and everyone else working on the port as to whether I should > pursue this at all. I'm certainly all in favor of this and would be more than happy to talk to anyone at Sun who needs further details on who we are and what we're trying to do, but I can also say that this is going to be 100X easier if Sun (where Sun == this particular group of people, anyway) already knows who we are and is sold on the merits of supporting FreeBSD (or open source BSD in general) on the SPARC architecture. I say this because I'm frankly a little surprised to hear that there's any interest at all there given that I'd have thought that backing Solaris and Linux as the two "official" Unix OSes for the SPARC would be enough for any company (not that I agree, but I'm a realistic here) and I'd be very curious to know why they want to back FreeBSD as well. If it's for all the right and enlightened reasons we're already familiar with then rah rah rah and full speed ahead, let's go for it. If it's for the wrong reasons, or insufficiently clarified reasons, then I'd be afraid of things falling through unexpectedly the same way they did last time Sun talked about backing FreeBSD on the SPARC. That's my only reservation. > please feel free to jump in and correct me. At the moment it looks like we > have the toolchain to do cross-compilation from x86 to sparc64-elf with > the beginning of a port of the MD parts of the kernel. It's not much, but You'll want to look into egcs 1.1.1 then - it will in all likelyhood form the basis of the compiler technology which you'll actually be using by the time that the sparc port is ready to join -current (if all goes well that is). Thanks for the status report, and sorry if I sound negative here, it's just that I don't want people to get their hopes up and dashed again here. If Sun's (more) solidly behind this then so am I. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 06:41:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA29514 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:41:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA29509 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:41:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mullaneb@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma (tecoma [198.133.170.1]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01131 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:40:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:40:58 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Mullaney X-Sender: mullaneb@tecoma To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: <19981210134957.V12688@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > Well, it will *crawl* on hardware that is about 8 years old. Which has nothing to do with Mr. Griffin's original point, which was "you can't get a current version of Solaris to run on it" Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 07:20:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03598 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:20:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tivoli.kesher.net (tivoli.kesher.net [204.126.6.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA03590 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Aaron_Schmiedel@tivoli.com) Received: from tivoli.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tivoli.kesher.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04836 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:29:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <366FE8C8.84948C56@tivoli.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:29:12 -0600 From: Aaron Schmiedel Reply-To: aaron@kesher.net Organization: Tivoli Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe freebsd-sparc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 07:40:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05495 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:40:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA05319; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:38:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA45502; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:42:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:42:05 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Christopher Nielsen , core@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port In-Reply-To: <29826.913282632@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I say this because I'm frankly a little surprised to hear that there's > any interest at all there given that I'd have thought that backing > Solaris and Linux as the two "official" Unix OSes for the SPARC would > be enough for any company (not that I agree, but I'm a realistic here) > and I'd be very curious to know why they want to back FreeBSD as well. > If it's for all the right and enlightened reasons we're already > familiar with then rah rah rah and full speed ahead, let's go for it. > If it's for the wrong reasons, or insufficiently clarified reasons, > then I'd be afraid of things falling through unexpectedly the same way > they did last time Sun talked about backing FreeBSD on the SPARC. > That's my only reservation. I'm unsure of previous politics, but I know everyone loved sunOS 4.1.x (Well except the non-DNS comliance thing :) ) a *cough* 4.3BSD based system. > > > please feel free to jump in and correct me. At the moment it looks like we > > have the toolchain to do cross-compilation from x86 to sparc64-elf with > > the beginning of a port of the MD parts of the kernel. It's not much, but > > You'll want to look into egcs 1.1.1 then - it will in all likelyhood > form the basis of the compiler technology which you'll actually be > using by the time that the sparc port is ready to join -current (if > all goes well that is). Jordan, do you have any contacts at cygnus that you could refer us to? I recently got egcs111 and bin291 to generate a crosscompiler/toolchain suite, however i noticed that almost all the patches from the ultralinux camp never made it into egcs111. I'm a bit confused at this, i could manually apply the diffs but that might make it worse. Clues/pointers? Has anyone here verified egcs111 on sparc64 to produce at correct code? Or at least used it on a small project and can give an opinion? Thanks, -Alfred > > Thanks for the status report, and sorry if I sound negative here, it's > just that I don't want people to get their hopes up and dashed again > here. If Sun's (more) solidly behind this then so am I. > > - Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 07:41:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05608 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:41:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA05545; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:40:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA00558; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:40:02 -0800 (PST) To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Christopher Nielsen , core@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:42:05 EST." Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:40:01 -0800 Message-ID: <554.913304401@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Jordan, do you have any contacts at cygnus that you could refer us > to? I recently got egcs111 and bin291 to generate a Nope! - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 08:44:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13405 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:44:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13236; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:43:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA27617; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:43:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19981210084316.D26964@nuxi.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:43:16 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: core@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <29826.913282632@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 10:42:05AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > however i noticed that almost all the patches from the ultralinux camp > never made it into egcs111. I'm a bit confused at this The last time I sent diffs to the EGCS people, they wanted a statement turning over the diffs to the FSF, required that they be exactly formatted in GNU style, a ChangeLog entry, and something else I can't remember. The UltraLinux people may have found all that too much time/trouble at this point in time. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 09:22:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17566 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:22:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17471; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:20:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA45645; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:24:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:24:46 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: "David O'Brien" cc: core@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port In-Reply-To: <19981210084316.D26964@nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, David O'Brien wrote: > > however i noticed that almost all the patches from the ultralinux camp > > never made it into egcs111. I'm a bit confused at this > > The last time I sent diffs to the EGCS people, they wanted a statement > turning over the diffs to the FSF, required that they be exactly > formatted in GNU style, a ChangeLog entry, and something else I can't > remember. > > The UltraLinux people may have found all that too much time/trouble at > this point in time. > That's a real shame, there seems to be a lot of optimization tweaks included in that code. I'm going to work on merging it in, the only problem is that when 1.1.2 or whatever comes out it's a big setback. I think i'll check out their listserv and see what egcs people have to say about this now. I'm wondering why someone from their camp didn't volunteer to do the merging/indenting. (Now if I could only find where I stashed my Rod of Ego Absorption) Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current > -- > -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 09:24:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17876 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:24:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17870 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:24:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA27867; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:24:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19981210092442.G26964@nuxi.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:24:42 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19981210084316.D26964@nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 12:24:46PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think i'll check out their listserv and see what egcs people have to say > about this now. If the UL people did submit patches, they should be found at http://www.cygnus.com/ml/egcs-patches/ -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 09:58:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22117 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:58:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sunsite.mff.cuni.cz (sunsite.ms.mff.cuni.cz [195.113.19.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA21870; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:56:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jj@sunsite.ms.mff.cuni.cz) Received: (from jj@localhost) by sunsite.mff.cuni.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA09740; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:53:22 +0100 From: Jakub Jelinek Message-Id: <199812101753.SAA09740@sunsite.mff.cuni.cz> Subject: Re: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port To: obrien@NUXI.com Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:53:21 +0100 (CET) Cc: bright@hotjobs.com, core@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981210084316.D26964@nuxi.com> from "David O'Brien" at Dec 10, 98 08:43:16 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > however i noticed that almost all the patches from the ultralinux camp > > never made it into egcs111. I'm a bit confused at this > > The last time I sent diffs to the EGCS people, they wanted a statement > turning over the diffs to the FSF, required that they be exactly > formatted in GNU style, a ChangeLog entry, and something else I can't > remember. > > The UltraLinux people may have found all that too much time/trouble at > this point in time. More than half of our code is merged into egcs-current (ie. not into 1.1*), the other half (sibling call optimization and some other optimizations) needs some work on our part to get in. On the other side, egcs-current features a complete SPARC backend rewrite. Cheers, Jakub ___________________________________________________________________ Jakub Jelinek | jj@sunsite.mff.cuni.cz | http://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz Administrator of SunSITE Czech Republic, MFF, Charles University ___________________________________________________________________ Linux version 2.1.130 on a sparc64 machine (3958.37 BogoMips) ___________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 10:09:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23483 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:09:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23477 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:09:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01405; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:09:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19981210100936.K26964@nuxi.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:09:36 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Jakub Jelinek Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19981210084316.D26964@nuxi.com> <199812101753.SAA09740@sunsite.mff.cuni.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812101753.SAA09740@sunsite.mff.cuni.cz>; from Jakub Jelinek on Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 06:53:21PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > The UltraLinux people may have found all that too much time/trouble at > > this point in time. > > More than half of our code is merged into egcs-current (ie. not into 1.1*), > the other half (sibling call optimization and some other optimizations) > needs some work on our part to get in. On the other side, egcs-current > features a complete SPARC backend rewrite. Will any of this code make it into the next release? (does anybody know if there will be a 1.2 or 1.1.2?) I've found the snapshots change just too much to depend on them for projects. I'm positive, a non-release version of EGCS will not be used as a new compiler in FreeBSD proper. And, it is best if this Sparc effort targets the most likely compiler that will become part of FreeBSD. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 10:15:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24127 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:15:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24093; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:14:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA45728; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:17:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:17:39 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Jakub Jelinek cc: obrien@NUXI.com, core@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port In-Reply-To: <199812101753.SAA09740@sunsite.mff.cuni.cz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jakub Jelinek wrote: > > > > > however i noticed that almost all the patches from the ultralinux camp > > > never made it into egcs111. I'm a bit confused at this > > > > The last time I sent diffs to the EGCS people, they wanted a statement > > turning over the diffs to the FSF, required that they be exactly > > formatted in GNU style, a ChangeLog entry, and something else I can't > > remember. > > > > The UltraLinux people may have found all that too much time/trouble at > > this point in time. > > More than half of our code is merged into egcs-current (ie. not into 1.1*), > the other half (sibling call optimization and some other optimizations) > needs some work on our part to get in. On the other side, egcs-current > features a complete SPARC backend rewrite. ok, i guess my real three questions are: Can I get away without these patches or will I be generating broken code? When you say: (ie. not into 1.1*) Do you mean, not merged into the 1.1.1-release that just came out? If the answer to the prev question is that it wasn't merged, how do you rate egcs-current on usability/correctness? thanks, -Alfred > > Cheers, > Jakub To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 12:22:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10646 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:22:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10534; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:21:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id VAA25531; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:20:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA00900; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:14:52 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from j) Message-ID: <19981210211450.25907@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:14:51 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: core@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Christopher Nielsen on Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 12:43:24AM -0800 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Christopher Nielsen wrote: > I'm not sure who (if anyone) from core monitors the freebsd-sparc list, so > I will provide a pseudo status of the port; [...] Thanks for this. Once you've got something to test more widely, i can offer some test capacity as well. We've got one Ultra 10 that's mostly in production work, but also a SparcAXP machine (OEM mainboard, assembled in Taiwan into a PC-like case, on-board NCR 53c876) which i think i could free up for some tests for a longer period (at least a few weeks) if desired. Internet access would be possible in case someone needs to login remotely for debugging purposes. No, i'm not going to subscribe to the freebsd-sparc list right now, since i can't offer enough time to do some substantial _porting_ work, but i could do some testing if you want. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Dec 10 18:33:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28812 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:33:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from yin.vegamuse.org ([206.239.71.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28807 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:33:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sab@vegamuse.org) Received: from localhost (sab@localhost) by yin.vegamuse.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19339; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:47:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from sab@yin.vegamuse.org) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:47:47 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Kiernan To: Alfred Perlstein cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need some advice about FreeBSD UltraSPARC port In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Has anyone here verified egcs111 on sparc64 to produce at correct code? > Or at least used it on a small project and can give an opinion? I've used it at TIS Labs while working on the project I'm currently associated with and it generates code which is correct enough from what I can see. This project produces an LKM for Solaris, JNI interface for the Java GUI we use to administrate the LKM, a dozen or so user-space apps, and a few other things. So I'd say that it works rather well. (We even use STL, so C++ seems cool, also.) -- Stephen J. Kiernan sab@vegamuse.org kiernasj@connix.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sat Dec 12 18:54:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01062 for freebsd-sparc-outgoing; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 18:54:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hillbilly.hayseed.net (dnai-207-181-249-194.dsl.dnai.com [207.181.249.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01038 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 18:54:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: from localhost (IDENT:root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hillbilly.hayseed.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15301; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 18:52:23 -0800 Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 18:52:33 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: Christopher Nielsen To: Wes Peters cc: Greg Lehey , John Birrell , Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this... In-Reply-To: <366F5E30.2ED4962C@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > One thing in particular occurred to me in this context: why does Sun > > want Linux or *BSD? On the whole, Solaris > this week> is a pretty good operating system, and neither Linux nor > > *BSD can equal it. What advantage would I have running FreeBSD on my > > UltraSparc? Or should we be doing what NetBSD and OpenBSD are already > > doing and running it on older (32 bit) Sparc hardware? > > That depends on which Sun you're talking about. From the standpoint > of Sun Microelectronics, the branch of Sun that sells hardware to OEMs, > they would garner a royalty-free operating system that can be embeded > into systems with no licensing fees. This would be a good incentive > for some markets they play in, most certainly telecommunications (i.e. > phone switches). Sun recently had a reorg. There are no longer individual operating companies with a parent holding company. Sun is one big company again. I believe this may have been a contributing factor to the death of the initial UltraSPARC porting effort. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message