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From: Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Request for feedback:  Libretto floppy driver patches.
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[Patch for Libretto floppy driver deleted]

>Please let me know how it works for you, and anyone wishing to port
>this forward to -current also won't see a fight from me. :-)

Seems to work fine on my Libretto 70.

Robert Swindells

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 11 14:03:44 1998
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From: Igor Roshchin <igor@physics.uiuc.edu>
Message-Id: <199810112103.QAA14342@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu>
Subject: syslogd and syslog.conf
To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:03:30 -0500 (CDT)
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Hello!

Those who are reading freebsd-security, already saw this.
For others, briefly:
There was a question and few followups about the syslogd
which doesn't allow to have spaces between the first and the second
field in /etc/syslog.conf .
(this is a feature of syslogd in some (or all ?) other Unices).
Only <tab>s are allowed.

Neither man pages nor anybody of the responders (nor brief analyses of 
the source code) provided any reason why it is essential
to have just tabs, and not any combination of tabs and spaces,
as it is allowed in most (any?) other config files.

So, here is my attempt to implement the desired behavior of syslogd.
This patch allows syslogd to understand both - tabs and spaces
as fields separator in syslog.conf. 
(this seems to be possible, because the first field - selector field
can not contain spaces)
It is Important that this patch should not brake compatibility with
the old ("classical" [?] ) form of syslog.conf, because many people
want to be able to continue using just tabs (including cases with cross-platform
environments).

I tested this syslogd (using the debug mode), and it understands
my syslog.conf, even when I introduced a few spaces instead of tabs
(and mixed them together).
It's been running just fine on a production machine for 4 days by now.

I wonder if somebody can test it on some complicated syslog.conf
(use the debug mode -d) and make sure it doesn't brake on something
which escaped from my sight (especially new features introduced
in later 2.2.x releases)


IgoR



----- Forwarded message from Igor Roshchin -----


Ok, 
don't crash me with your swords .. ;)

I just compiled the syslogd with the changes suggested.
THe diff file is at the bottom.
It works fine for me.
Can anybody else test it against different syslog.conf's ?

My only concern:
In line 1410 - there was a space inside ", ;"  originally:
	while (strchr(", ;", *q))

According to man syslog.conf  - I don't see why it should be there..
This is the moment when the priority is analyzed.
No spaces are allowed before the priority specification.
So, I assume, this was just a typo.
so, it should be 
	while (strchr(",;", *q))
If this is not a typo, but I just missed some meaning, please, correct me!

IgoR

=====================8< ===============================

--- syslogd.c.orig	Thu Aug  6 00:58:10 1998
+++ syslogd.c	Thu Oct  8 22:19:27 1998
@@ -1365,12 +1365,12 @@
 	}
 
 	/* scan through the list of selectors */
-	for (p = line; *p && *p != '\t';) {
+	for (p = line; *p && *p != '\t' && *p != ' ';) {
 		int pri_done;
 		int pri_cmp;
 
 		/* find the end of this facility name list */
-		for (q = p; *q && *q != '\t' && *q++ != '.'; )
+		for (q = p; *q && *q != '\t' && *q != ' ' && *q++ != '.'; )
 			continue;
 
 		/* get the priority comparison */
@@ -1402,12 +1402,12 @@
 				  ;
 
 		/* collect priority name */
-		for (bp = buf; *q && !strchr("\t,;", *q); )
+		for (bp = buf; *q && !strchr("\t,; ", *q); )
 			*bp++ = *q++;
 		*bp = '\0';
 
 		/* skip cruft */
-		while (strchr(", ;", *q))
+		while (strchr(",;", *q))
 			q++;
 
 		/* decode priority name */
@@ -1424,8 +1424,8 @@
 		}
 
 		/* scan facilities */
-		while (*p && !strchr("\t.;", *p)) {
-			for (bp = buf; *p && !strchr("\t,;.", *p); )
+		while (*p && !strchr("\t.; ", *p)) {
+			for (bp = buf; *p && !strchr("\t,;. ", *p); )
 				*bp++ = *p++;
 			*bp = '\0';
 
@@ -1454,7 +1454,7 @@
 	}
 
 	/* skip to action part */
-	while (*p == '\t')
+	while (*p == '\t' || *p == ' ')
 		p++;
 
 	switch (*p)

----- End of forwarded message from Igor Roshchin -----

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 11 15:00:09 1998
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From: "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" <gelderen@mediaport.org>
To: <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: NATD: rc.network change required??
Date: 	Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:59:30 +0200
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Please bear with me as I'm kindof new to FreeBSD...

I've enabled natd in my rc.conf which works fine except when booting. This
has something to do with NATD only getting loaded in pass 3 of rc.network.

In the first pass of rc.network ipfw gets initialized and it is instructed
to divert everything to the natd which is not running at the time. Then the
various services (sendmail, etc) are started. Problem is that they lack
internet connectivity because traffic is diverted but natd is not yet
running (gets only initialized in pass 3).

The patch attached below fixes the problem for me, but it might not be the
right solution. I'd like someone to take this over and/or give some
feedback...

Cheers,
Jeroen


*** rc.network Sun Oct 11 22:14:49 1998
--- rc.network.new Sun Oct 11 22:14:19 1998
***************
*** 87,98 ****
--- 87,104 ----
  echo "but firewall rules are not enabled."
  echo "         All ip services are disabled."
      fi
  fi
      fi

+
+     # Network Address Translation daemon
+     if [ "X${natd_enable}" = X"YES" -a "X${natd_interface}" != X"" -a
"X${firewall_enable}" = X"YES" ]; then
+             echo -n ' natd'; natd ${natd_flags} -n ${natd_interface}
+     fi
+
      # Configure routing

      if [ "x$defaultrouter" != "xNO" ] ; then
      static_routes="default ${static_routes}"
      route_default="default ${defaultrouter}"
      fi
***************
*** 252,267 ****
      unset stash_flag
      fi

      # IP multicast routing daemon
      if [ "X${mrouted_enable}" = X"YES" ]; then
      echo -n ' mrouted'; mrouted ${mrouted_flags}
-     fi
-
-     # Network Address Translation daemon
-     if [ "X${natd_enable}" = X"YES" -a "X${natd_interface}" != X"" -a
"X${firewall_enable}" = X"YES" ]; then
-             echo -n ' natd'; natd ${natd_flags} -n ${natd_interface}
      fi

      echo '.'
      network_pass3_done=YES
  }
--- 258,268 ----



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 11 16:58:40 1998
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auth 23790042 subscribe freebsd-stable scwilson@notesworthy.com

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 11 18:08:01 1998
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From: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za>
To: Andrew Bromage <bromage@queens.unimelb.edu.au>, chad@dcfinc.com,
        stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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On Sat 1998-10-10 (14:54), Andrew Bromage wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 04:29:55PM -0700, Chad R. Larson wrote:
> > Does anyone have an opinion (now there's a stupid question) about IP
> > firewalling vs TCP wrappers to protect a server exposed to the great
> > unwashed Internet?
> 
> Just as a matter of interest, is there a reason why you don't want to
> use both?

I must agree here.

Not every service you run runs from inetd, which is the easiest thing to
transfer to TCP wrappers.

Things like web servers, ssh, irc servers, named, SQL databases, smbd, and
so forth aren't necessarily easy to convert to TCP wrappers.

And if (heaven, or whichever paradise-like quasi-elemental plane you believe
in, forbid) there is ever a security hole in TCP wrappers, inetd, sshd, smbd,
or any other service that runs as root (and some that don't), you're going to
wish you'd used IP firewalling so that the people on the outside don't even
get to see what you're running, let alone exploit it. (bind being a recent
example)

Of course, with TCP wrappers you can easily put up those cute banners to say
that access has been denied, contact the systems administrator on pain of
death if you think you deserve access. :)

Anyway, you _did_ ask for opinions :)

Neil
-- 
Neil Blakey-Milner
nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 11 21:55:41 1998
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To: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
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For the record, the linux rvplayer v5 only works if you have the pcm
sound driver (instead of voxware) installed.

I couldn't get rvplayer to work with voxware and a ktrace showed that
it was failing on an ioctl SNDCTL_DSP_GETCAPS call.  Donald Maddox
found that this ioctl is missing from the voxware code in -stable, but
is present in the pcm code.  3.0 does not have this problem.

-d

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 00:29:19 1998
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From: John Saunders <john.saunders@scitec.com.au>
To: "'FreeBSD stable'" <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: worm device status
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:29:02 +1000
Organization: SCITEC LIMITED
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Is the SCSI worm device considered obsolete or not?

The reason I am asking is that there is a patch for the RICOH
MP6200S CDRW device floating around that works for me. It also
should support any SCSI3/mmc compatible drives from what I've
read.

I was wondering if it is worthwhile putting this patch into
-stable before the final 2.2.8.

Cheers.
--   .   +-------------------------------------------------------+
 ,--_|\  | John Saunders    mailto:John.Saunders@scitec.com.au   |
/  Oz  \ | SCITEC LIMITED   Phone +61294289563  Fax +61294289933 |
\_,--\_/ | "By the time you make ends meet, they move the ends." |
      v  +-------------------------------------------------------+



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 00:41:58 1998
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Message-Id: <199810120541.GAA19591@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
To: dkulp@neomorphic.com (David Kulp)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:41:50 +0100 (MET)
Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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> For the record, the linux rvplayer v5 only works if you have the pcm
> sound driver (instead of voxware) installed.
> 
> I couldn't get rvplayer to work with voxware and a ktrace showed that
> it was failing on an ioctl SNDCTL_DSP_GETCAPS call.  Donald Maddox
> found that this ioctl is missing from the voxware code in -stable, but
> is present in the pcm code.  3.0 does not have this problem.

the voxware driver is essentially unmaintained, unless we can find a
volunteer (which i am not)...

	luigi

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 00:54:32 1998
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On 12-Oct-98 John Saunders wrote:
>  Is the SCSI worm device considered obsolete or not?
Well.. I'd consider it obsoleted by the cdrecord package, which supports
many more things with greater functionality.

>  The reason I am asking is that there is a patch for the RICOH
>  MP6200S CDRW device floating around that works for me. It also
>  should support any SCSI3/mmc compatible drives from what I've
>  read.
cdrecord supports this drive well, and I have used it with no problems.
Look in /usr/ports/sysutils/cdrecord

---------------------------------------------------------------------
|Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software |
|http://www.gsoft.com.au                                            |
|The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to|
|choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum                                   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 01:26:47 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 04:26:21 -0400
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>,
        David Kulp <dkulp@neomorphic.com>
Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net
References: <199810120454.VAA02154@board66.cruzers.com> <199810120541.GAA19591@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
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On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 06:41:50AM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> > For the record, the linux rvplayer v5 only works if you have the pcm
> > sound driver (instead of voxware) installed.
> > 
> > I couldn't get rvplayer to work with voxware and a ktrace showed that
> > it was failing on an ioctl SNDCTL_DSP_GETCAPS call.  Donald Maddox
> > found that this ioctl is missing from the voxware code in -stable, but
> > is present in the pcm code.  3.0 does not have this problem.
> 
> the voxware driver is essentially unmaintained, unless we can find a
> volunteer (which i am not)...

It may be 'unmaintained', but it works perfectly in -current, even for
rvplayer, and it supports MIDI :-)  I hope very much that some multimedia
guru will pick up support of the Voxware driver, or add MIDI support to
pcm...  (I'm not a multimedia guru, before you suggest it :-) )


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 05:55:58 1998
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To: Igor Roshchin <igor@physics.uiuc.edu>
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             <199810112103.QAA14342@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu> 
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> Hello!
> 
> Those who are reading freebsd-security, already saw this.
> For others, briefly:
> There was a question and few followups about the syslogd
> which doesn't allow to have spaces between the first and the second
> field in /etc/syslog.conf .
> (this is a feature of syslogd in some (or all ?) other Unices).
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                    all

> Only <tab>s are allowed.



Regards,                       Phone:  (250)387-8437
Cy Schubert                      Fax:  (250)387-5766
Open Systems Group          Internet:  cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca
ITSD                                   Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca
Government of BC            




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 07:14:42 1998
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Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= )
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dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) writes:
> On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 06:41:50AM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> > the voxware driver is essentially unmaintained, unless we can find a
> > volunteer (which i am not)...
> It may be 'unmaintained', but it works perfectly in -current, even for
> rvplayer, and it supports MIDI :-)  I hope very much that some multimedia
> guru will pick up support of the Voxware driver, or add MIDI support to
> pcm...  (I'm not a multimedia guru, before you suggest it :-) )

IMHO the latter is the better choice. Luigi's pcm driver is much
cleaner and thorougher than Voxware. I will not cry over Voxware
when/if it's bobitted out of the tree.

DES
-- 
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 07:23:11 1998
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From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
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To: Igor Roshchin <igor@physics.uiuc.edu>
cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:03:30 CDT."
             <199810112103.QAA14342@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu> 
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> Hello!
> 
> Those who are reading freebsd-security, already saw this.
> For others, briefly:
> There was a question and few followups about the syslogd
> which doesn't allow to have spaces between the first and the second
> field in /etc/syslog.conf .
> (this is a feature of syslogd in some (or all ?) other Unices).
> Only <tab>s are allowed.

Having had a chance to think about this, I think that a modification of 
this nature, which would make syslogd somewhat incompatible, e.g. not 
the same as, syslogd's on other UNIX systems, a name change should also 
be considered.  In keeping with tradition, this new syslogd should be 
called nsyslogd.

Taking a compromise position, I think that there are a couple of 
options:

1.  Define the characters that syslogd should recognize and have the 
syslogd
    Makefile build syslogd and nsyslogd, or

2.  Make the new behavior an option, "-n" for new behavior, or have 
syslogd
    see whether it was invoked via the syslogd command or nsyslogd 
command
    and invoke the new behavior based on that, or

3.  Make the proposed changes a port based on FreeBSD code, similar to 
what
    has been done with colorls.  Those who wish to use the proposed 
changes
    can install the port.  (The port could even support non-standard 
syslog
    features like the use of TCP in addition to UDP or even encryption).

I tend to favour options 2 and 3 over option 1.


Regards,                       Phone:  (250)387-8437
Cy Schubert                      Fax:  (250)387-5766
Open Systems Group          Internet:  cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca
ITSD                                   Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca
Government of BC            




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 08:13:20 1998
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Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf 
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uh, before one 'fixes' this, it might be asked if it is broken.  maybe i
am just used to syslog.conf being tab separated, and it ceased bothering
me too long a while back.  but is this change actually needed?

randy

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 08:30:15 1998
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In article <199810121421.HAA22643@cwsys.cwsent.com>,
Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group  <cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca> wrote:

> Having had a chance to think about this, I think that a modification of 
> this nature, which would make syslogd somewhat incompatible, e.g. not 
> the same as, syslogd's on other UNIX systems, a name change should also 
> be considered.  In keeping with tradition, this new syslogd should be 
> called nsyslogd.

Yuck!

BSDI's syslogd can handle spaces in syslog.conf just fine.  Ours
should too.

This isn't a new feature, it's a long-overdue bug fix.

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 08:53:50 1998
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To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
cc: Igor Roshchin <igor@physics.uiuc.edu>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf 
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In-reply-to: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group's message of "Mon, 12 Oct 1998 07:21:49 PDT" <199810121421.HAA22643@cwsys.cwsent.com> 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:53:18 +0100
From: Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk>
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On 12 October 1998, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group proclaimed:
> > Hello!
> > 
> > Those who are reading freebsd-security, already saw this.
> > For others, briefly:
> > There was a question and few followups about the syslogd
> > which doesn't allow to have spaces between the first and the second
> > field in /etc/syslog.conf .
> > (this is a feature of syslogd in some (or all ?) other Unices).
> > Only <tab>s are allowed.
> 
> Having had a chance to think about this, I think that a modification of 
> this nature, which would make syslogd somewhat incompatible, e.g. not 
> the same as, syslogd's on other UNIX systems, a name change should also 
> be considered.  In keeping with tradition, this new syslogd should be 
> called nsyslogd.

Sadly, this is exactly the reason that sun systems still have
/usr/bin/awk as a useless pile of junk and /usr/bin/nawk as the
useful option for those who want it.  Ditto for their out of date
Korn shell.  As a freely available operating system, we have a lot
more flexibility than commercial vendors and we should use that
flexibility to innovate.

There is a *lot* of stuff in FreeBSD that is better than the
``standard unix'' equivalent.  I for one would be happy to see
syslogd fixed in this manner.  Particularly as the proposed added
functionality is totally backwards compatible within FreeBSD.
Provided that we note the addition well in the release notes & man
pages, I feel that this change should go ahead.
-- 
Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator
"Xerox studies suggest that most people print out electronic mail
 that is longer than half a page; paper use rises by 40 percent in
 offices that introduce E-mail." -- CCM

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 11:18:35 1998
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From: Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com>
To: Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk>
Cc: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca>,
        Igor Roshchin <igor@physics.uiuc.edu>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf 
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On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Dom Mitchell wrote:

> There is a *lot* of stuff in FreeBSD that is better than the
> ``standard unix'' equivalent.  I for one would be happy to see
> syslogd fixed in this manner.  Particularly as the proposed added
> functionality is totally backwards compatible within FreeBSD.
> Provided that we note the addition well in the release notes & man
> pages, I feel that this change should go ahead.

Agreed. No one's syslog.conf will be broken by this change, and it will
only make the program more userfriendly.

- bill fumerola [root/billf]@chc-chimes.com - computer horizons corp -
-  ph:(800)252.2421 x128 / bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - BF1560  -

	"Logic, like whiskey, loses its beneficial effect 
	when taken in too large quantities" -Lord Dunsany






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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 12:05:18 1998
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From: Ron Echeverri <rone@B1FF.nas.nasa.gov>
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Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
In-Reply-To: <199810120454.VAA02154@board66.cruzers.com> from David Kulp at "Oct 11, 98 09:54:25 pm"
To: dkulp@neomorphic.com (David Kulp)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:04:07 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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David Kulp writes:
  For the record, the linux rvplayer v5 only works if you have the pcm
  sound driver (instead of voxware) installed.
  I couldn't get rvplayer to work with voxware and a ktrace showed that
  it was failing on an ioctl SNDCTL_DSP_GETCAPS call.  Donald Maddox
  found that this ioctl is missing from the voxware code in -stable, but
  is present in the pcm code.  3.0 does not have this problem.
  
Possibly dumb question: would it work with 4Front's OSS?
  
rone
-- 
Ron Echeverri			Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility
DSS/Usenet Administrator	NASA Ames Research Center
Internet Sysop			Mountain View, CA
<rone@nas.nasa.gov>		x42771

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Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
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Ron Echeverri writes:
 > David Kulp writes:
 >   For the record, the linux rvplayer v5 only works if you have the pcm
 >   sound driver (instead of voxware) installed.
 >   I couldn't get rvplayer to work with voxware and a ktrace showed that
 >   it was failing on an ioctl SNDCTL_DSP_GETCAPS call.  Donald Maddox
 >   found that this ioctl is missing from the voxware code in -stable, but
 >   is present in the pcm code.  3.0 does not have this problem.
 >   
 > Possibly dumb question: would it work with 4Front's OSS?
 >   

My experience was that OSS consistently froze up my whole "stable"
system.  I had to reset the machine.  I'd never experienced such a
thing, but I guess that's what you get from problematic kernel code.

Others have tesitified that OSS doesn't work on 3.0 at all.

-d

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From: Brent Carithers <carith@are.Berkeley.EDU>
To: Ron Echeverri <rone@B1FF.nas.nasa.gov>
cc: David Kulp <dkulp@neomorphic.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
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On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Ron Echeverri wrote:

> David Kulp writes:

> Possibly dumb question: would it work with 4Front's OSS?

yes, rvplayer does work with 4Front's driver

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Brent Carithers                    Univ. California at Berkeley
carith@are.berkeley.edu            Agricultural & Resource Economics
Phone: (510) 643-5420              335 Giannini Hall #3310
Fax:   (510) 643-8911              Berkeley, CA 94720-3310
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

Words of wisdom from Zippy:
----------------------
The entire CHINESE WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL TEAM all share ONE personality --
and have since BIRTH!!

On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Ron Echeverri wrote:

> David Kulp writes:
>   For the record, the linux rvplayer v5 only works if you have the pcm
>   sound driver (instead of voxware) installed.
>   I couldn't get rvplayer to work with voxware and a ktrace showed that
>   it was failing on an ioctl SNDCTL_DSP_GETCAPS call.  Donald Maddox
>   found that this ioctl is missing from the voxware code in -stable, but
>   is present in the pcm code.  3.0 does not have this problem.
>   
> Possibly dumb question: would it work with 4Front's OSS?
>   
> rone
> -- 
> Ron Echeverri			Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility
> DSS/Usenet Administrator	NASA Ames Research Center
> Internet Sysop			Mountain View, CA
> <rone@nas.nasa.gov>		x42771
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
> 


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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= )
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Ron Echeverri <rone@B1FF.nas.nasa.gov> writes:
> David Kulp writes:
> > For the record, the linux rvplayer v5 only works if you have the pcm
> > sound driver (instead of voxware) installed.
> Possibly dumb question: would it work with 4Front's OSS?

OSS is just a newer version of Voxware AFAIK.

DES
-- 
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no

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Cc: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>,
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Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
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On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 04:13:53PM +0200, Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav  wrote:
> dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) writes:
> > On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 06:41:50AM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> > > the voxware driver is essentially unmaintained, unless we can find a
> > > volunteer (which i am not)...
> > It may be 'unmaintained', but it works perfectly in -current, even for
> > rvplayer, and it supports MIDI :-)  I hope very much that some multimedia
> > guru will pick up support of the Voxware driver, or add MIDI support to
> > pcm...  (I'm not a multimedia guru, before you suggest it :-) )
> 
> IMHO the latter is the better choice. Luigi's pcm driver is much
> cleaner and thorougher than Voxware. I will not cry over Voxware
> when/if it's bobitted out of the tree.

FWIW, I agree.  The only reason I can think of to justify the continued
existence of Voxware is the lack of MIDI support in pcm.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 14:33:18 1998
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Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= )
Date: 12 Oct 1998 23:32:44 +0200
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dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) writes:
> On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 04:13:53PM +0200, Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav  wrote:
> > dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) writes:
> > > On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 06:41:50AM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> > > > the voxware driver is essentially unmaintained, unless we can find a
> > > > volunteer (which i am not)...
> > > It may be 'unmaintained', but it works perfectly in -current, even for
> > > rvplayer, and it supports MIDI :-)  I hope very much that some multimedia
> > > guru will pick up support of the Voxware driver, or add MIDI support to
> > > pcm...  (I'm not a multimedia guru, before you suggest it :-) )
> > IMHO the latter is the better choice. Luigi's pcm driver is much
> > cleaner and thorougher than Voxware. I will not cry over Voxware
> > when/if it's bobitted out of the tree.
> FWIW, I agree.  The only reason I can think of to justify the continued
> existence of Voxware is the lack of MIDI support in pcm.

...a situtation which will hopefully be remedied as soon as someone
sits down and writes it. Did I hear you volunteer? ;)

DES
-- 
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 15:15:47 1998
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Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
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On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 11:32:44PM +0200, Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav  wrote:
> dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) writes:
> > On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 04:13:53PM +0200, Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav  wrote:
> > > dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) writes:
> > > > On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 06:41:50AM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> > > > > the voxware driver is essentially unmaintained, unless we can find a
> > > > > volunteer (which i am not)...
> > > > It may be 'unmaintained', but it works perfectly in -current, even for
> > > > rvplayer, and it supports MIDI :-)  I hope very much that some multimedia
> > > > guru will pick up support of the Voxware driver, or add MIDI support to
> > > > pcm...  (I'm not a multimedia guru, before you suggest it :-) )
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                  Did you read this part? :-)

> > > IMHO the latter is the better choice. Luigi's pcm driver is much
> > > cleaner and thorougher than Voxware. I will not cry over Voxware
> > > when/if it's bobitted out of the tree.
> > FWIW, I agree.  The only reason I can think of to justify the continued
> > existence of Voxware is the lack of MIDI support in pcm.
> 
> ...a situtation which will hopefully be remedied as soon as someone
> sits down and writes it. Did I hear you volunteer? ;)

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Reply-To: alk@pobox.com
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
References: <199810120454.VAA02154@board66.cruzers.com>
	<199810120541.GAA19591@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
	<19981012042621.B1296@scsn.net>
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Quoth Donald J. Maddox on Mon, 12 October:
: 
: It may be 'unmaintained', but it works perfectly in -current, even for
: rvplayer, and it supports MIDI :-)  

It also supports synth.  PCM does not support the synth interface.




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 15:55:26 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:53:59 -0400
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_C=2E_Sm=F8rgrav_?= <dag-erli@ifi.uio.no>
Cc: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>,
        David Kulp <dkulp@neomorphic.com>, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG,
        stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net
References: <199810120454.VAA02154@board66.cruzers.com> <199810120541.GAA19591@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <19981012042621.B1296@scsn.net> <xzpbtnhvpem.fsf@urdarbrunni.ifi.uio.no> <19981012172741.B1157@scsn.net> <xzpu319lb43.fsf@dolgtvari.ifi.uio.no> <19981012181529.H1157@scsn.net>
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On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 06:15:29PM -0400, Donald J. Maddox wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 11:32:44PM +0200, Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav  wrote:
> > dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) writes:
> > > On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 04:13:53PM +0200, Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav  wrote:
> > > > dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) writes:
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 06:41:50AM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> > > > > > the voxware driver is essentially unmaintained, unless we can find a
> > > > > > volunteer (which i am not)...
> > > > > It may be 'unmaintained', but it works perfectly in -current, even for
> > > > > rvplayer, and it supports MIDI :-)  I hope very much that some multimedia
> > > > > guru will pick up support of the Voxware driver, or add MIDI support to
> > > > > pcm...  (I'm not a multimedia guru, before you suggest it :-) )
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
                   Did you read this part? :-)
 
> > > > IMHO the latter is the better choice. Luigi's pcm driver is much
> > > > cleaner and thorougher than Voxware. I will not cry over Voxware
> > > > when/if it's bobitted out of the tree.
> > > FWIW, I agree.  The only reason I can think of to justify the continued
> > > existence of Voxware is the lack of MIDI support in pcm.
> > 
> > ...a situtation which will hopefully be remedied as soon as someone
> > sits down and writes it. Did I hear you volunteer? ;)

    No.  I don't use it.  Voxware does everything my sound card
knows how to do.  I'll be using Voxware till it rots, I expect.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 19:09:59 1998
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        Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>,
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Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:53:59 EDT."
             <19981012185359.I1157@scsn.net> 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:09:25 -0700
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>     No.  I don't use it.  Voxware does everything my sound card
> knows how to do.  I'll be using Voxware till it rots, I expect.

Voxware has already rotted.  Someday soon it will even be removed
entirely and you will then have the choice between either putting it
back in yourself and maintaining it separately or switching to the new
one.

- Jordan

P.S. This isn't open to debate, before you suggest it. :-)

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 20:21:09 1998
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Message-Id: <199810130121.CAA21824@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 02:21:30 +0100 (MET)
Cc: rone@B1FF.nas.nasa.gov, dkulp@neomorphic.com, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <xzpvhlplbwl.fsf@dolgtvari.ifi.uio.no> from "Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=" at Oct 12, 98 11:15:19 pm
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> > David Kulp writes:
> > > For the record, the linux rvplayer v5 only works if you have the pcm
> > > sound driver (instead of voxware) installed.
> > Possibly dumb question: would it work with 4Front's OSS?
> 
> OSS is just a newer version of Voxware AFAIK.

"just" and "newer" are conflicting terms... OSS is a commercial product
so it comes with support and _it is_ maintainaed.

	luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 12 21:12:12 1998
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CC: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG,
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Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
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"Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote:
> 
> >     No.  I don't use it.  Voxware does everything my sound card
> > knows how to do.  I'll be using Voxware till it rots, I expect.
> 
> Voxware has already rotted.  Someday soon it will even be removed
> entirely and you will then have the choice between either putting it
> back in yourself and maintaining it separately or switching to the new
> one.

	Dropping voxware before pcm does everything that voxware does would be
a mistake. There are zillions of SB16 cards and clones out there. 

Doug
-- 
***           Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network          ***

    Go PADRES!

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 00:42:47 1998
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To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: about no buffer space
From: takachan@whale.cc.muroran-it.ac.jp (Takayuki Sato)
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I'm using FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE.
And using as WWW-server and Mail-serve and so on.
But sometimes, the machine's network interface will down.
I'm using ep0 as network interface.
3com 3c509 at ep0.

In the time, network down, following message will show at ping command.
ping: sendto: No buffer space available   
 
And I cannot when it happened next time.

I've heard this bug is related kernel buffer space.

If you can fix this bug, please debug soon.




_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
     Muroran Institute of Technology ,Hokkaido Japan
         Computer Science and System Engineering
                  Takayuki Sato (^_^) 
   e-mail address: takachan@whale.cc.muroran-it.ac.jp
   URL: http://whale.cc.muroran-it.ac.jp/~beldandy/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 00:53:25 1998
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Cc: dmaddox@scsn.net, dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it,
        dkulp@neomorphic.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable 
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	<29884.908244565@time.cdrom.com>
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Quoth Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, 12 October:
: Voxware has already rotted.  Someday soon it will even be removed
: entirely and you will then have the choice between either putting it
: back in yourself and maintaining it separately or switching to the new
: one.
: 
: - Jordan
: 
: P.S. This isn't open to debate, before you suggest it. :-)

Perhaps not, but it is obviously open to flaming -- and quite
appropriately, I think.  Is it out of sheer spite?

Should we get a volunteer to maintain a cvsup snd tree, so that
all the fm synth and midi users can keep operating when this happens?


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 01:11:13 1998
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CC: "Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav" <dag-erli@ifi.uio.no>,
        Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>,
        David Kulp <dkulp@neomorphic.com>, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG,
        stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
References: <199810120454.VAA02154@board66.cruzers.com> <199810120541.GAA19591@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <19981012042621.B1296@scsn.net> <xzpbtnhvpem.fsf@urdarbrunni.ifi.uio.no> <19981012172741.B1157@scsn.net>
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Donald wrote:
> 
> > IMHO the latter is the better choice. Luigi's pcm driver is much
> > cleaner and thorougher than Voxware. I will not cry over Voxware
> > when/if it's bobitted out of the tree.
> 
> FWIW, I agree.  The only reason I can think of to justify the continued
> existence of Voxware is the lack of MIDI support in pcm.

Few other small things like the voxware code initialises the Audio Excel
DSP 16 into sound blaster
mode at run time. (Dos users run a utility to do this).
I don't think Luigi's driver does, but that is easy enough to add.


Perhaps more of a deal could be struck with OSS.
They really do have sound cards all wrapped up, hence their $20 fee.


Bye
Roger

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Subject: Update opie in /usr/src/contrib?
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Would the maintainers update opie in /usr/src/contrib from 2.3 (960922) to
the more current 2.3.2 (980101)?  The release notes indicate "Lots of
portability and bug fixes" along the way.  Thanks!

Jeff






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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 11:16:45 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:16:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason C. Wells" <jcwells@u.washington.edu>
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To: FreeBSD-stable <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Supfiles Differ From Docs
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>From the website...

***
The cvsup client maintains certain status files in what is called the
"base" directory.  These files help CVSup to work more efficiently, by
keeping track of which updates you have already received. We will use the
standard base directory, "/usr/local/etc/cvsup":

      *default base=/usr/local/etc/cvsup

This setting is used by default if it is not specified in the supfile, so
we actually do not need the above line.
***

But the /usr/share/examples/cvsup files all place *default base in /usr

So when the docs say /usr/local/etc/cvsup is used by default does that
mean cvsup has that value hardcoded? 

Or does "default" mean that what is used is the value for "*default base"
in the supfiles /usr/share/examples/cvsup?

Catchya Later,		|	UW Mechanical Engineering
Jason Wells		|	http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 11:59:59 1998
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Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:59:41 -0700
From: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
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In article <Pine.BSF.4.02A.9810131108150.1061-100000@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu>,
Jason C. Wells <jcwells@u.washington.edu> wrote:

> So when the docs say /usr/local/etc/cvsup is used by default does that
> mean cvsup has that value hardcoded? 

Yes.

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 12:16:57 1998
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To: takachan@whale.cc.muroran-it.ac.jp (Takayuki Sato)
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: about no buffer space
References: <199810130742.QAA17387@whale.cc.muroran-it.ac.jp>
Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics
X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= )
Date: 13 Oct 1998 21:16:35 +0200
In-Reply-To: takachan@whale.cc.muroran-it.ac.jp's message of "Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:42:27 +0900 (JST)"
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takachan@whale.cc.muroran-it.ac.jp (Takayuki Sato)
> I'm using FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE.
> And using as WWW-server and Mail-serve and so on.
> But sometimes, the machine's network interface will down.
> I'm using ep0 as network interface.
> 3com 3c509 at ep0.
> 
> In the time, network down, following message will show at ping command.
> ping: sendto: No buffer space available   

ifconfig ep0 up.

And search the archives before you post.

DES (Philippe Regnauld: are you counting?)
-- 
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 13:27:01 1998
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From: "Derek Flowers" <djflow@erols.com>
To: <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Tools for package indexing
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:27:43 -0400
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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While in the process of working with the package files, I have created =
some scripts to check and generate the index file needed by sysinstall =
to work with packages.  Hopefully, this will make someone's life a =
little bit easier.  I used them to split the package directory into two =
separate entities so they will fit onto two CDs.  Note that I am not a =
top notch programmer.  These scripts are quick and dirty, but they do =
the job.

By the way, is it possible for those who create the packages to include =
the categories the package belongs to in the package file, perhaps as a =
comment?  The script that generates the index file grabs all the =
information needed from the package file, but the only place I found to =
get the categories is from the index file for the ports.  It would be =
much easier to get the categories from the package file itself.

-Derek

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3509.100"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>While in the process of working with =
the package=20
files, I have created some scripts to check and generate the index file =
needed=20
by sysinstall to work with packages.&nbsp; Hopefully, this will make =
someone's=20
life a little bit easier.&nbsp; I used them to split the package =
directory into=20
two separate entities so they will fit onto two CDs.&nbsp; Note that I =
am not a=20
top notch programmer.&nbsp; These scripts are quick and dirty, but they =
do the=20
job.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>By the way, is it possible for those =
who create=20
the packages to include the categories the package belongs to in the =
package=20
file, perhaps as a comment?&nbsp; The script that generates the index =
file grabs=20
all the information needed from the package file, but the only place I =
found to=20
get the categories is from the index file for the ports.&nbsp; It would =
be much=20
easier to get the categories from the package file itself.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>-Derek</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 14:12:50 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:12:29 -0400
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_C=2E_Sm=F8rgrav_?= <dag-erli@ifi.uio.no>,
        Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>,
        David Kulp <dkulp@neomorphic.com>, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG,
        stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
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On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 07:09:25PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> >     No.  I don't use it.  Voxware does everything my sound card
> > knows how to do.  I'll be using Voxware till it rots, I expect.
> 
> Voxware has already rotted.  Someday soon it will even be removed
> entirely and you will then have the choice between either putting it
> back in yourself and maintaining it separately or switching to the new
> one.

It works amazingly well for rotten code...


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 15:56:05 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:55:41 -0400
From: Stewart MacLund <sundie@lunaticfringe.org>
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I get the oddest error when trying to compile my kernel.

loading kernel
isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
*** Error code 1

Stop.


That's just the end part, of course.  I've tried several different
methods of compiling, but nothing works.  Always the identical same
error.  Any thoughts?  I've got the most recent cvsup, so i'm not behind
on anything.


Sundie...
-- 


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Stewart MacLund				Systems Integrator
Email: sundie@zubcor.com		Zubcor Networking
URL:   http://www.zubcor.com/		35 Lewis Street
Fax:   +1.416.465.9148			Toronto, Ontario, CA
Page:  +1.416.372.2862			M4M-2H2
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 16:11:02 1998
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To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:12:29 EDT."
             <19981013171229.A1859@scsn.net> 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:10:40 -0500
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[cc's snipped to remane sane]

[someone whose attributes have been lost said]
!     No.  I don't use it.  Voxware does everything my sound card
! knows how to do.  I'll be using Voxware till it rots, I expect.

>On Mon, Oct 12, 1998 at 07:09:25PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
@ Voxware has already rotted.  Someday soon it will even be removed
@ entirely and you will then have the choice between either putting it
@ back in yourself and maintaining it separately or switching to the new
@ one.

[someone else whose attributes have been lost said]
>It works amazingly well for rotten code...

I concur.  I will be much saddened by the removal of voxware:  It works
exceptionally for my setup, a pnp awe32 with a yamaha daughterboard.
I looked at the source to luigi's stuff and it still doesnt support the
midi devices.  While i have no complaint about that at all (after all, 
there's nothing that says it has to be supported), it strikes me as 
intriguing to remove a working sound driver that supports something as 
important as midi, in favor of a sound driver that does not.

I suppose as Jordan says, if they remove voxware from freebsd, some of us
users will have to conspire together to maintain it seperately.  Anyone
interested in such a project?  I admit i would have to join; all i do
with my sound card is 'playmidi'[1].  I cant be the only one.

Jeremy

[1] I know someone will point out timidity, but thats not really much
of an option.  The daughterboard I have on my sound card is much better
than any patches I can get for timidity, and wont require all my CPU time
to boot.

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 17:01:02 1998
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From: Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>
Message-Id: <199810132358.BAA17693@ocean.campus.luth.se>
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
In-Reply-To: <199810132310.SAA25477@nemesis.acronet.net> from Jeremy Nelson at "Oct 13, 98 06:10:40 pm"
To: jnelson@acronet.net (Jeremy Nelson)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:58:02 +0200 (CEST)
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG
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According to Jeremy Nelson:
> I concur.  I will be much saddened by the removal of voxware:  It works
> exceptionally for my setup, a pnp awe32 with a yamaha daughterboard.
> I looked at the source to luigi's stuff and it still doesnt support the
> midi devices.  While i have no complaint about that at all (after all, 
> there's nothing that says it has to be supported), it strikes me as 
> intriguing to remove a working sound driver that supports something as 
> important as midi, in favor of a sound driver that does not.
> 
> I suppose as Jordan says, if they remove voxware from freebsd, some of us
> users will have to conspire together to maintain it seperately.  Anyone
> interested in such a project?  I admit i would have to join; all i do
> with my sound card is 'playmidi'[1].  I cant be the only one.

Actually, that was not what Jordan said at all. That was someone else.
But the fact of the matter is that Jordan probably have good reasons to
want to remove Voxware from FreeBSD. I really don't know much about the
soundcode, but I suspect Luigi's i better designed, and brings something
new to FreeBSD's soundcode. If not, I don't think Luigi would have bothered.

So... (let's say) Luigi's code is better at what it DOES handle...
Why have two soundcodes, that does basically the same thing? Ripping out
out just to clean the tree up seems like a good idea to me.

Now, you want midi and whatnot. Why not do as Jordan says and add midi
support to the new code instead of wasting energy on a project to keep
old code (which will rot more and more no matter what) alive?
I suspect it should be a pretty straightforward cut'n'paste job from
the old code with very little actual change needing to be done. Just find
out where and how to hook the code in and see the old code for how to do
it. Then again, i haven't looked too closely as I said.

  /Mikael


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 17:56:59 1998
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To: Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>
cc: jnelson@acronet.net (Jeremy Nelson), stable@FreeBSD.ORG,
        multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG
Reply-To: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:58:02 +0200."
             <199810132358.BAA17693@ocean.campus.luth.se> 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:56:41 -0700
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> Actually, that was not what Jordan said at all. That was someone else.
> But the fact of the matter is that Jordan probably have good reasons to
> want to remove Voxware from FreeBSD. I really don't know much about the
> soundcode, but I suspect Luigi's i better designed, and brings something
> new to FreeBSD's soundcode. If not, I don't think Luigi would have bothered.
> 
> So... (let's say) Luigi's code is better at what it DOES handle...
> Why have two soundcodes, that does basically the same thing? Ripping out
> out just to clean the tree up seems like a good idea to me.

Precisely.  Having two separate sound drivers is simply confusing and
increases the amount of cruft in the tree.  Furthermore, if those who
have complained so far would put even a tenth of the amount of effort
into helping Luigi add MIDI and FM support to the new driver, we
wouldn't even be having this little conversation.  I hear a lot of
counter-arguments about ability and time raised whenever I make that
suggestion as well, but that's just bollocks.  If someone is truly
motivated and inclined then they'll make the time and they'll learn
whatever has to be learned in order to make it happen.  This isn't
rocket science, it's just a sound driver, and I know that many people
here have the ability to accomplish such things or they probably
wouldn't even be in this industry.  Whether they make it an actual
priority or not, however, depends on how strongly they're pushed and
they can consider my first shot across the bow of the old sound code
to be the first strong nudge in that direction.  The nudges will get
stronger as soon as 3.0 is out the door. :-)

- Jordan

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 18:00:57 1998
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To: sundie@lunaticfringe.org
Subject: Re: Kernel compiling error...
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Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:00:04 -0700
From: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
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In article <3623DA6D.5FA1C629@lunaticfringe.org>,
Stewart MacLund  <sundie@lunaticfringe.org> wrote:
> I get the oddest error when trying to compile my kernel.
> 
> loading kernel
> isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
> isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
> isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
> isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
> isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
> isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
> isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
> isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment
> *** Error code 1
> 
> Stop.
> 
> 
> That's just the end part, of course.  I've tried several different
> methods of compiling, but nothing works.  Always the identical same
> error.  Any thoughts?  I've got the most recent cvsup, so i'm not behind
> on anything.

Make sure you are using an up-to-date version of /usr/sbin/config.

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 20:12:57 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:12:21 +0800 (SGT)
From: Wilson Tam <wilson@krdl.org.sg>
To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: got SIGFPE exception from xlock
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hi,

I am using 2.2.7 on a K6 machine. I got a problem on xlock, it generates
SIGFPE exception once awhile. It is a serious problem for me because after
the xlock core dump, my terminal become unlock and anyone can use my
account.

I just wonder does anyone have this problem, or the problem only happen on
K6 machine?

here is 'dmesg' for my machine

CPU: AMD-K6tm w/ multimedia extensions (233.86-MHz 586-class CPU)
  Origin = "AuthenticAMD"  Id = 0x562  Stepping=2
  Features=0x8001bf<FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,MCE,CX8,MMX>
real memory  = 67108864 (65536K bytes)
avail memory = 63332352 (61848K bytes)


thanks for any hint...

wilson


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 23:49:45 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:44:29 +0200
To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Marius Bendiksen <Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no>
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable 
In-Reply-To: <199810132310.SAA25477@nemesis.acronet.net>
References: <Your message of "Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:12:29 EDT."             <19981013171229.A1859@scsn.net>
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Does anyone know what would be necessary to patch the pcm driver to support
the
AWE32? I'm not interested in MIDI or wavetable;  just CD and wave, perhaps
also
line. The card can't be all that different from the SB16, I'd think?
However, I
have not gotten the awe32pnp to work with pcm (admittedly,  I've not tried
very
hard), whereas the voxware code handles it easily.

I, too, would be happy to see voxware go.

---
Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 13 23:55:40 1998
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To: Wilson Tam <wilson@krdl.org.sg>
cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: got SIGFPE exception from xlock 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:12:21 +0800."
             <Pine.LNX.3.96.981014110134.7421C-100000@verbo.krdl.org.sg> 
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At Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:12:21 +0800, Wilson Tam wrote:
>
>hi,
>
>I am using 2.2.7 on a K6 machine. I got a problem on xlock, it generates
>SIGFPE exception once awhile. It is a serious problem for me because after
>the xlock core dump, my terminal become unlock and anyone can use my
>account.
>
>I just wonder does anyone have this problem, or the problem only happen on
>K6 machine?
>
>here is 'dmesg' for my machine
>
>CPU: AMD-K6tm w/ multimedia extensions (233.86-MHz 586-class CPU)
>  Origin = "AuthenticAMD"  Id = 0x562  Stepping=2
>  Features=0x8001bf<FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,MCE,CX8,MMX>
>real memory  = 67108864 (65536K bytes)
>avail memory = 63332352 (61848K bytes)
>

This does not belong to this list, but since I do not know where it should be 
I will reply only to this list.


I have also had this problem and narrowed it down to the mode named "discrete"
I does not appear every time but is reprodusable.
I'm using the port xlockmore-4.11.


and this is the top my dmesg.boot

FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE #0: Fri Sep 11 15:52:55 CEST 1998
    kroot@yggdrasil.sm.luth.se:/usr/src/sys/compile/YGGDRASIL
CPU: Pentium II (quarter-micron) (348.49-MHz 686-class CPU)
  Origin = "GenuineIntel"  Id = 0x651  Stepping=1
  Features=0x183f9ff<FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,<
b
16>,<b17>,MMX,<b24>>
real memory  = 134217728 (131072K bytes)
avail memory = 128958464 (125936K bytes)


To solve my problem I only run xlock in mode blank.

/Johan K

-- 
Johan Karlsson		mailto:k@numeri.campus.luth.se
SWEDEN



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 02:40:27 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:37:35 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Gerald Pfeifer <pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at>
To: Wilson Tam <wilson@krdl.org.sg>
cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: got SIGFPE exception from xlock
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On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Wilson Tam wrote:
> I am using 2.2.7 on a K6 machine. I got a problem on xlock, it generates
> SIGFPE exception once awhile. It is a serious problem for me because after
> the xlock core dump, my terminal become unlock and anyone can use my
> account.

I'm tempted to believe that this will only happen for selected modes in
xlock, probably a xlock bug.

A save workaround is to restrict xlock to some fixed mode via the
command-line. Worked for us here.

Gerald
-- 
Gerald Pfeifer (Jerry)      Vienna University of Technology
pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at   http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 02:48:33 1998
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To: Marius Bendiksen <Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no>
cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:44:29 +0200."
             <3.0.5.32.19981014084429.0093a480@mail.scancall.no> 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:48:04 +0200
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> Does anyone know what would be necessary to patch the pcm driver to support
> the
> AWE32? I'm not interested in MIDI or wavetable;  just CD and wave, perhaps
> also
> line. The card can't be all that different from the SB16, I'd think?
> However, I
> have not gotten the awe32pnp to work with pcm (admittedly,  I've not tried
> very
> hard), whereas the voxware code handles it easily.
> 
> I, too, would be happy to see voxware go.

  Have you tried to configure your AWE32 card as a PnP device in kernel boot-time configuration?
---
    /Voland                   Vadim Belman
                              E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk
                              Fido:   2:464/15

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 03:21:59 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199810140822.JAA25614@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
To: voland@eagle.plab.ku.dk (~/.signature)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:22:31 +0100 (MET)
Cc: Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199810140948.LAA01159@eagle.plab.ku.dk> from "~/.signature" at Oct 14, 98 11:47:45 am
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> > Does anyone know what would be necessary to patch the pcm driver to support
> > the
> > AWE32? I'm not interested in MIDI or wavetable;  just CD and wave, perhaps
> > also
> > line. The card can't be all that different from the SB16, I'd think?
> > However, I
> > have not gotten the awe32pnp to work with pcm (admittedly,  I've not tried
> > very
> > hard), whereas the voxware code handles it easily.

controller pnp0
device pcm0 at isa? tty port ? irq 5 drq 1 flags 0x15 vector pcmintr

and, in /kernel.config or boot -c

USERCONFIG
pnp 1 0 os enable port0 0x220 irq0 5 drq0 1 drq1 5
quit

	cheers
	luigi

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 04:27:22 1998
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I am getting an error when trying to buildworld 10-13 sources:

install -c -s -o bin -g bin -m 555   make /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin
strip: /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin/make: Argument list too long
*** Error code 70
Stop.
*** Error code 1
Stop.


Couldn't find the error in the archives.

----
francisco@natserv.com
The power to serve.   http://www.freebsd.org

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 07:02:12 1998
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Subject: make world faies in /usr/src/usr.bin/split
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:27:28 -0000 (GMT)"
	<199810141126.HAA08900@federation.addy.com>
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Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:11:28 +0900
From: KIRIYAMA Kazuhiko <kiri@pis.toba-cmt.ac.jp>
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Hello Dears.

Recently my stable PCl complain when make world done in
/usr/src/usr.bin/split :

rm -f .depend /usr/src/usr.bin/size/GRTAGS /usr/src/usr.bin/size/GSYMS /usr/src/usr.bin/size/GTAGS
===> usr.bin/soelim
rm -f a.out Errs errs mklog soelim soelim.o soelim.1.gz soelim.1.cat.gz
rm -f .depend /usr/src/usr.bin/soelim/GRTAGS /usr/src/usr.bin/soelim/GSYMS /usr/src/usr.bin/soelim/GTAGS
===> usr.bin/split
".depend", line 38: Need an operator
".depend", line 39: Error in archive specification: ""@"
".depend", line 432: Need an operator
".depend", line 434: Need an operator
".depend", line 436: Need an operator

What makes wrong in Makefile?  Same results prodece as in replacing
all concerning "Makefiles" in source trees and /usr/share/mk/* of CVS
repositries. 

Regards.
________________________________________________________________________
KIRIYAMA Kazuhiko <kiri@pis.toba-cmt.ac.jp>    Toba National College of 
                                                     Maritime Technology
                         Department of Electronic Mechanical Engineering

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 13:26:40 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:24:47 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Michael C. Vergallen" <mvergall@mail.double-barrel.be>
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To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Partition Type Numbers 
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Hi,

Dous anyone have the list off partition type numbers recognized by 
bootmgr ? I need the folowing types for a test system i'm putting 
together so I can run some OS Tests here :

- SCO OSR 5.04 
- Solaris 2.6

I ordered both OS/s but would like to reserve space for them on a 9 Gig
Disc. 

Michael
---
Michael C. Vergallen A.k.A. Mad Mike, 
Sportstraat 28			http://www.double-barrel.be/mvergall/
B 9000 Gent			ftp://ftp.double-barrel.be/pub/linux/
Belgium				tel : 32-9-2227764 Fax : 32-9-2224976
			


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 14:23:46 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:23:18 +1000
From: Peter Jeremy <peter.jeremy@AUSS2.ALCATEL.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: got SIGFPE exception from xlock
To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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Johan Karlsson <k@numeri.campus.luth.se> wrote:

>At Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:12:21 +0800, Wilson Tam wrote:
>>I am using 2.2.7 on a K6 machine. I got a problem on xlock, it generates
>>SIGFPE exception once awhile.

I have also seen this.  It is a bug in xlock.

>This does not belong to this list, but since I do not know where it should be 
>I will reply only to this list.

The logical place would seem to be xlock@tux.org, or the maintainer:
David A. Bagley <bagleyd@bigfoot.com>

>I have also had this problem and narrowed it down to the mode named "discrete"
>I does not appear every time but is reprodusable.
I think I've seen it in a couple of different modes in xlockmode-4.07,
but don't have a record of them to hand.

Peter
--
Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ)                    peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au
Alcatel Australia Limited
41 Mandible St                          Phone: +61 2 9690 5019
ALEXANDRIA  NSW  2015                   Fax:   +61 2 9690 5247

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 15:22:24 1998
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From: Ron Echeverri <rone@B1FF.nas.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <199810142222.PAA00592@B1FF.nas.nasa.gov>
Subject: CPU halts using mpg123 and OSS
To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:22:02 -0700 (PDT)
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I'm running a kernel that has no Voxware stuff in it (as prescribed by
the OSS docs).  Everything seems to run OK, but when running mpg123,
whenever it tries to come back to a shell prompt (if i suspend or
interrupt the process, or if i run it in the background, or if it
exits normally after the track ends), the CPU halts.  I ktraced the
process and let it run normally, dumped the trace, and got 64 megs of
normal-looking stuff until the end:

   312 mpg123   RET   read 414/0x19e
   312 mpg123   CALL  read(0x3,0xefbfdb0c,0x4)
   312 mpg123   GIO   fd 3 read 4 bytes
       "\M^?\M

It just stops right there.  Where should i look to first?  Should i
bug 4Front first, upgrade my tcsh, or bug the mpg123 maintainer?

thanks
rone
-- 
Ron Echeverri			Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility
DSS/Usenet Administrator	NASA Ames Research Center
Internet Sysop			Mountain View, CA
<rone@nas.nasa.gov>		x42771

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 16:20:53 1998
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CC: Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>,
        Jeremy Nelson <jnelson@acronet.net>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG,
        "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
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"Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote:

> Precisely.  Having two separate sound drivers is simply confusing and
> increases the amount of cruft in the tree.  

	Ok, let me get this straight. Things like xten and qcam stay IN the
tree, in spite of,

1) They are broken, and/or work in only a limited number of cases.
2) In the case of qcam can actually cause kernel panics.
3) Are only relevant to an extremely small subset of potential freebsd
customers. 

Yet you plan to yank the voxware driver in spite of,

1) It works just fine, in fact it does more that luigi's alternative. 
2) Is perfectly safe.
3) Supports a HUGE installed base of sound cards.

And your logic for this is that it's confusing and adds to bloat?  With
all of the other useless, antiquated, nonsense that's in the tree now
your answer is to delete something that works? 

> Furthermore, if those who
> have complained so far would put even a tenth of the amount of effort
> into helping Luigi add MIDI and FM support to the new driver, we
> wouldn't even be having this little conversation.  

	I was one of the first people to adopt the new driver in -Stable, and
in fact I helped debug the problems with it in -Stable and I still use
it. I don't need midi or synth support, so I'm not motivated to help add
support for either, but if someone else does add it I will be glad to
test it on my humble, 4 year old original SB 16. On the other hand, I AM
strongly motivated by stupid management decisions. 

	You've had about a dozen responses from people who are saying, "I use
the voxware driver and I'd miss it if there were no suitable
replacement." Given that most of the people who will be affected by this
decision aren't reading the lists, you should consider that an
overwhelming reason not to nuke voxware. I tried to be polite with this
observation in my previous post, but your argument that, "If I delete
voxware which works and people like then they will work on pcm instead"
simply cannot go past without comment. 

	While I can't code a new sound driver, I will be happy to use my
documentation skills to help with keeping the two seperate drivers less
"confusing" if anyone's interested. Just point me at what needs
clarification. 

Doug
-- 
***           Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network          ***

    Go PADRES!

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 17:13:45 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:11:07 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Michael C. Vergallen" <mvergall@mail.double-barrel.be>
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To: Studded <Studded@gorean.org>
cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>,
        Jeremy Nelson <jnelson@acronet.net>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG,
        "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable
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Just to say that the support for voxware should not be dropped. I think
that keeping the two available should not cause any problems. Poeple will
use what they like, if they got the choice.

Michael
---
Michael C. Vergallen A.k.A. Mad Mike, 
Sportstraat 28			http://www.double-barrel.be/mvergall/
B 9000 Gent			ftp://ftp.double-barrel.be/pub/linux/
Belgium				tel : 32-9-2227764 Fax : 32-9-2224976
			
On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Studded wrote:

> "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote:
> 
> > Precisely.  Having two separate sound drivers is simply confusing and
> > increases the amount of cruft in the tree.  
> 
> 	Ok, let me get this straight. Things like xten and qcam stay IN the
> tree, in spite of,
> 
> 1) They are broken, and/or work in only a limited number of cases.
> 2) In the case of qcam can actually cause kernel panics.
> 3) Are only relevant to an extremely small subset of potential freebsd
> customers. 
> 
> Yet you plan to yank the voxware driver in spite of,
> 
> 1) It works just fine, in fact it does more that luigi's alternative. 
> 2) Is perfectly safe.
> 3) Supports a HUGE installed base of sound cards.
> 
> And your logic for this is that it's confusing and adds to bloat?  With
> all of the other useless, antiquated, nonsense that's in the tree now
> your answer is to delete something that works? 
> 
> > Furthermore, if those who
> > have complained so far would put even a tenth of the amount of effort
> > into helping Luigi add MIDI and FM support to the new driver, we
> > wouldn't even be having this little conversation.  
> 
> 	I was one of the first people to adopt the new driver in -Stable, and
> in fact I helped debug the problems with it in -Stable and I still use
> it. I don't need midi or synth support, so I'm not motivated to help add
> support for either, but if someone else does add it I will be glad to
> test it on my humble, 4 year old original SB 16. On the other hand, I AM
> strongly motivated by stupid management decisions. 
> 
> 	You've had about a dozen responses from people who are saying, "I use
> the voxware driver and I'd miss it if there were no suitable
> replacement." Given that most of the people who will be affected by this
> decision aren't reading the lists, you should consider that an
> overwhelming reason not to nuke voxware. I tried to be polite with this
> observation in my previous post, but your argument that, "If I delete
> voxware which works and people like then they will work on pcm instead"
> simply cannot go past without comment. 
> 
> 	While I can't code a new sound driver, I will be happy to use my
> documentation skills to help with keeping the two seperate drivers less
> "confusing" if anyone's interested. Just point me at what needs
> clarification. 
> 
> Doug
> -- 
> ***           Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network          ***
> 
>     Go PADRES!
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
> 


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 17:49:04 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:44:58 -0200
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Subject: Re: CPU halts using mpg123 and OSS
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heheheheheheh,
So FreeBSD isn't so stable as people says, is it ?


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 17:50:33 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:52:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
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On 14-Oct-98 Studded wrote to Jordan:
> 
>       You've had about a dozen responses from people who are saying, "I use
> the voxware driver and I'd miss it if there were no suitable
> replacement." Given that most of the people who will be affected by this
> decision aren't reading the lists, you should consider that an
> overwhelming reason not to nuke voxware. 

Not to mention those that haven't commented.  I've not been able to get 
Luigi's driver to run on my old Gravis Ultrasound (the original, not the
PNP).  As well as it works I see no reason to replace it, either.  Of
course rvplayer doesn't work with it tho but that's a whole 'nother thing.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
   Online Searchable Campground Listings    http://www.camping-usa.com
       "There is no outfit less entitled to lecture me about bloat
               than the federal government"  -- Tony Snow
==========================================================================



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 18:20:25 1998
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From: Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
To: Gustavo V G C Rios <grios@netshell.vicosa.com.br>
Subject: Re: CPU halts using mpg123 and OSS
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, Ron Echeverri <rone@B1FF.nas.nasa.gov>
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On 15-Oct-98 Gustavo V G C Rios wrote:
> heheheheheheh,
> So FreeBSD isn't so stable as people says, is it ?

FreeBSD is fine.  An unstable driver will crash any OS, including your
beloved linux.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
   Online Searchable Campground Listings    http://www.camping-usa.com
       "There is no outfit less entitled to lecture me about bloat
               than the federal government"  -- Tony Snow
==========================================================================



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 18:27:50 1998
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i am sorry about my stupid comment.
I use two systems, Linux and QNX, but now i intend to kick Linux and get
FreeBSD. Linux is unstable as FreeBSD if you think about QNX (that's a
fact). We are running QNX for 3 1/2 year and the machine never hanged
up.
I did that comment cause, i never seen nobody talking that his/her BSD
had crashed, and now anoe had gotten its Os halt.

Adios.


PS: i sorry about my terrible english.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 18:35:25 1998
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On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Ron Echeverri wrote:

> I'm running a kernel that has no Voxware stuff in it (as prescribed by
> the OSS docs).  Everything seems to run OK, but when running mpg123,
> whenever it tries to come back to a shell prompt (if i suspend or
> interrupt the process, or if i run it in the background, or if it
> exits normally after the track ends), the CPU halts.  I ktraced the
> process and let it run normally, dumped the trace, and got 64 megs of
> normal-looking stuff until the end:


As far as I know,  FreeBSD doesn't officially support OSS _AND_ you should
take this up with 4front.  I have had no problems running mpg123 on the
FreeBSD sound system.



> Ron Echeverri			Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility
> DSS/Usenet Administrator	NASA Ames Research Center
> Internet Sysop			Mountain View, CA
> <rone@nas.nasa.gov>		x42771

Sean-Paul Rees
UNIX System Administrator
sean@ulink.net / sean@dreamfire.net


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 18:56:43 1998
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To: Gustavo V G C Rios <grios@netshell.vicosa.com.br>
cc: Ron Echeverri <rone@B1FF.nas.nasa.gov>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: CPU halts using mpg123 and OSS 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:44:58 -0200."
             <3625458A.3911035B@netshell.vicosa.com.br> 
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> heheheheheheh,
> So FreeBSD isn't so stable as people says, is it ?

You too can be killed.

There's nothing the system can do to protect itself from a buggy 
loadable module, obviously enough.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msmith@cdrom.com



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 19:23:35 1998
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To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world faies in /usr/src/usr.bin/split
References: <199810141126.HAA08900@federation.addy.com> <19981014231128A.kiri@pis.toba-cmt.ac.jp>
From: Dave Marquardt <marquard@zilker.net>
Date: 14 Oct 1998 21:22:00 -0500
In-Reply-To: KIRIYAMA Kazuhiko's message of "Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:11:28 +0900"
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KIRIYAMA Kazuhiko <kiri@pis.toba-cmt.ac.jp> writes:
> rm -f .depend /usr/src/usr.bin/size/GRTAGS /usr/src/usr.bin/size/GSYMS /usr/src/usr.bin/size/GTAGS
> ===> usr.bin/soelim
> rm -f a.out Errs errs mklog soelim soelim.o soelim.1.gz soelim.1.cat.gz
> rm -f .depend /usr/src/usr.bin/soelim/GRTAGS /usr/src/usr.bin/soelim/GSYMS /usr/src/usr.bin/soelim/GTAGS
> ===> usr.bin/split
> ".depend", line 38: Need an operator
> ".depend", line 39: Error in archive specification: ""@"
> ".depend", line 432: Need an operator
> ".depend", line 434: Need an operator
> ".depend", line 436: Need an operator

Looks to me like .depend is messed up.  Go remove it manually, since
make world was about to do that anyway.

-Dave

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 14 20:25:34 1998
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        Ron Echeverri <rone@B1FF.nas.nasa.gov>
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586) 

	And as if Linux NEVER EVER crashes, right? If you don't have something
	constructive to say - don't say anything at all then.

	About the problem: Ron, but 4Front people. They are known to have
	bugs in the module they ship.

-- Yan

On Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 10:44:58PM -0200, Gustavo V G C Rios <grios@netshell.vicosa.com.br> wrote:
> heheheheheheh,
> So FreeBSD isn't so stable as people says, is it ?
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
-- Yan

I don't have the password .... + Jan Koum 
But the path is chainlinked .. | Spelled Jan, pronounced Yan. There. 
So if you've got the time .... | Web: http://www.best.com/~jkb
Set the tone to sync ......... + OS: http://www.FreeBSD.org

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 00:29:40 1998
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Subject: Re: Partition Type Numbers 
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In-reply-to: "Michael C. Vergallen"'s message of "Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:24:47 +0200" <Pine.LNX.3.96.981014221911.3509A-100000@ns.double-barrel.be> 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:28:46 +0100
From: Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk>
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On 14 October 1998, "Michael C. Vergallen" proclaimed:
> Dous anyone have the list off partition type numbers recognized by 
> bootmgr ? I need the folowing types for a test system i'm putting 
> together so I can run some OS Tests here :
> 
> - SCO OSR 5.04 
> - Solaris 2.6

I seem to recall from the Solaris 2.6 release notes that it uses the
same partition type as Linux swap.  According to
/usr/src/sbin/i386/fdisk/fdisk.c that's 0x82.  Also, guessing from that
file, I would say that the SCO one probably uses partition type 0x63.

Have a look on http://docs.sun.com/ for more details on the Solaris one.
-- 
Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator
"Xerox studies suggest that most people print out electronic mail
 that is longer than half a page; paper use rises by 40 percent in
 offices that introduce E-mail." -- CCM

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 01:40:08 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:34:49 +0200
To: "~/.signature" <voland@eagle.plab.ku.dk>
From: Marius Bendiksen <Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no>
Subject: Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable 
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199810140948.LAA01159@eagle.plab.ku.dk>
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>  Have you tried to configure your AWE32 card as a PnP device in kernel
boot-time configuration?

Yup. It didn't work.

Could be that this has been fixed lately, though. I run -current now.
---
Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS

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Mike Smith wrote:
> There's nothing the system can do to protect itself from a buggy
> loadable module, obviously enough.

Well, almost nothing ...

options         NO_LKM                  # Keep rogue modules away

Of course, this also limits the working ones, but hey.  :-)  :-) :-)

-- 
Drew Derbyshire         UUPC/extended e-mail:  software@kew.com
                                   Telephone:  617-279-9812

"This is Stuart Copeland with a warning -- when the forces of Satanic
 Ritual Roll over Manchester [NH], their tank radios will be tuned to
 WGIR FM"                               - ex-Policeman S. Copeland

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 06:37:33 1998
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Organization: NeoSoft, Inc.
From: Conrad Sabatier <conrads@neosoft.com>
To: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Trash Voxware? (was Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable)
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I really must add my $.02 here.  I would really hate to see the Voxware code
dropped, as I need it to take full advantage of my AWE 64.  The awedrv package
(available from Randall Hopper's site at http://multiverse.com/~rhh/awedrv)
depends on the Voxware code, as it is essentially nothing but a number of
patches to same.

I can't see giving up a driver that gives me *full* access to all of my
soundcard's capabilities for one that provides only limited functionality.
IF the pcm driver supported MIDI/synth, I might feel differently (probably not,
actually, since I doubt it would ever support the AWE as well as awedrv), but I
feel this decision to toss the Voxware code is *way* premature.

I really don't understand the eagerness to drop Voxware at this point in time.
Is it simply for the lack of maintainer?

-- 
Conrad Sabatier

A billion here, a couple of billion there -- first thing you know it
adds up to be real money.
                -- Senator Everett McKinley Dirksen



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 07:09:06 1998
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From: Clark Gaylord <gaylord@gaylord.async.vt.edu>
Message-Id: <199810151408.KAA22591@gaylord.async.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf
In-Reply-To: <199810121529.IAA29415@austin.polstra.com> from John Polstra at "Oct 12, 98 08:29:49 am"
To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:08:20 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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> In article <199810121421.HAA22643@cwsys.cwsent.com>,
> Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group  <cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Having had a chance to think about this, I think that a modification of 
> > this nature, which would make syslogd somewhat incompatible, e.g. not 
> > the same as, syslogd's on other UNIX systems, a name change should also 
> > be considered.  In keeping with tradition, this new syslogd should be 
> > called nsyslogd.
> 
> Yuck!
> 
> BSDI's syslogd can handle spaces in syslog.conf just fine.  Ours
> should too.
> 
> This isn't a new feature, it's a long-overdue bug fix.

I could only agree if we say in very large, bold letters: TABS ARE
THE STANDARD, USUAL FORMAT. USE SPACE AT YOUR OWN PERIL.

No, more seriously, tab-delimited is the usual means of formatting
a text "database" file, and there are potentially non-system routines
that will break with this "fix".  I don't know that a lot of
sysadmins actually try to make sense of syslogd.conf, but in general
if you have a fixed number of fields of data that require delimiting,
tab and colon are the usual delimiters; using space begs one to
use multiple spaces, and then you run into having to consider 
"[ ]+" or, worse yet " [ ]*", when parsing said file.

Again, we could make syslogd able to read space delimited, but I
think advising one to use space instead of tab in syslogd.conf
would be a mistake.

-- 
Clark K. Gaylord
Blacksburg, Virginia USA
cgaylord@vt.edu

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 08:03:47 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199810151304.OAA28238@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: Trash Voxware? (was Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable)
To: conrads@neosoft.com
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:04:04 +0100 (MET)
Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.981015083407.conrads@neosoft.com> from "Conrad Sabatier" at Oct 15, 98 08:33:48 am
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> I really don't understand the eagerness to drop Voxware at this point in time.
> Is it simply for the lack of maintainer?

"simply" ? I am amazed, do people understand that the system is
evolving so if a module works _now_ it does not mean it will work
forever without mainteinance ?

I really don't care if voxware stays or goes. At some point (maybe
never...) it will happen to break because of changes in related
parts of the system and then we will not have to decide.

On the other hand people is not forced to upgrade, so even when a
driver is removed they can happily stay with the last version that
supported their favourite hardware.

	cheers
	luigi

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 08:18:11 1998
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To: Clark Gaylord <gaylord@gaylord.async.vt.edu>
cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:08:20 EDT."
    <199810151408.KAA22591@gaylord.async.vt.edu> 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:17:24 -0700
From: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
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> > This isn't a new feature, it's a long-overdue bug fix.
>
> I could only agree if we say in very large, bold letters: TABS ARE
> THE STANDARD, USUAL FORMAT. USE SPACE AT YOUR OWN PERIL.

Oh, puh-leeeze!  This is mountain-out-of-molehill.

BSDI and probably most other unixes accept spaces too.  So I would
argue that tabs are _not_ the standard format.  They are the
historical broken format, which is something quite different.  Also,
any sysadmin who blindly copies a /etc file from one OS to a different
OS deserves what he gets.  Should we also warn users not to rename the
file to SYSLOG.INI and try to use it on their Windows NT machines? ;-)

> No, more seriously, tab-delimited is the usual means of formatting a
> text "database" file

Not in Unix.  Go have a look.  The usual convention is linear
whitespace, which means a sequence of one or more tabs or spaces.

> I don't know that a lot of sysadmins actually try to make sense of
> syslogd.conf,

If by "make sense of" you mean "parse with a program" then I doubt
you'll find very many, if you find even one.

> but in general if you have a fixed number of fields of data that
> require delimiting, tab and colon are the usual delimiters;

Not in Unix.  Whitespace and colon.

> using space begs one to use multiple spaces, and then you run into
> having to consider "[ ]+" or, worse yet " [ ]*", when parsing said
> file.

But multiple tabs are already allowed in syslog.conf.

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 08:35:57 1998
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Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf
In-Reply-To: <199810151408.KAA22591@gaylord.async.vt.edu> from "Clark Gaylord" at "Oct 15, 1998 10: 8:20 am"
To: gaylord@gaylord.async.vt.edu (Clark Gaylord)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:35:22 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG
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Hi, folks!

I hope this will be the last message I am writing - to answer all the questions.
(I spent much more time on all e-mails then I planned to 
and then I actually had)

Since this discussion was on both mail-lists : stable and security
(sorry, I don't read current - don't know what's going there now),
I am writing to both lists.
(sorry if this is inappropriate)

I exchanged e-mails with Jordan (jkh) and David (dg),
and I think that we agreed on that it's a bit late for this
change to make it to the 3.0-release, so let's hold
until after the release is out, and then this change will be committed.

Thanks to everybody who expresed their useful (pros and cons) opinions.

If you are not too bored yet, you can read the rest of the e-mail,
where I kind of summarize all the points made.

IgoR


> > 
> > Yuck!
> > 
> > BSDI's syslogd can handle spaces in syslog.conf just fine.  Ours
> > should too.
> > 
> > This isn't a new feature, it's a long-overdue bug fix.
> 
> I could only agree if we say in very large, bold letters: TABS ARE
> THE STANDARD, USUAL FORMAT. USE SPACE AT YOUR OWN PERIL.

No problem with that.

I just wonder, why people are so conservative if it comes to 
some kind of "tradition".

Everybody who is against changes is  mostly providing their emotions
(except the only objective reason - to have a cross-platform syslog.conf
compatible with "old giants" like SunOS, AIX, ..)

Some people say why the tabs can be better (it saves space, i/o time),
but then why don't leave it to the sysadmin to decide - what he/she wants
to use in the actual syslogd.conf, while providing her/him with the
syslogd which can understand both ways.

NOBODY so far provided with any reason 
1) why it is bad to have syslogd understanding both just tabs and
any mixture of tabs and spaces.  
2) why "tabs only" scenario was used in the first place for the syslog.conf,
and 
3) it was not used for other config files in /etc -  (name your favorites)

(The only possible idea for 2) which I can come up with - in the old days
people were in a tough on disk space, but that's just an idea which 
does not explain 3) )

It looks to me that the answer to 2) and 3) is:
"It just happened to be that way, because the author of the syslogd
just wrote that way"

Now, why one wants to bother to do the changes.

1) MANY people make this mistake, learning it "hard way".
(after not having such restriction with othe config files, you think
that this is logical to have both tabs and spaces allowed, or at least
intuitive) 
   Note, that it's easy to miss in the man pages that only
tabs are allowed as separators. (It is not written in capital letters,
as Clark suggests ;) )

2) Cut-N-Paste procedure is usable if the spaces are allowed.
(via X features, screen's buffer, or any other means which read the 
layout of the text from the screen without differentiation between tabs
ans spaces)


After all, since this change does not brake the old behavior -
everybody is free to chose - what style of syslog.conf to use.




For the sake of completeness of my summary:
Remark (after Cy's and somebody's else e-mails - sorry don't remember the name):

Since the new syslogd is fully backwards compatible,
and it is not the only program in FreeBSD which has "extended" behavior
in comparison to the counterparts in other systems,
there is no need to call it a different name, nor provide this
feature as a separate command line option.




> 
> No, more seriously, tab-delimited is the usual means of formatting
> a text "database" file, and there are potentially non-system routines
> that will break with this "fix".  I don't know that a lot of
> sysadmins actually try to make sense of syslogd.conf, but in general
> if you have a fixed number of fields of data that require delimiting,
> tab and colon are the usual delimiters; using space begs one to
> use multiple spaces, and then you run into having to consider 
> "[ ]+" or, worse yet " [ ]*", when parsing said file.

Let's not make hypothetical guesses.
Read the previous e-mails again to find what is proposed.
Nobody suggests to use spaces _inside_ the fields of the syslog.conf.
The only change that tab characters used as the separator between
the two fields of syslog.conf can (not must!) be replaced with spaces.

If it was not clear, why would not you take a look at the 
changes yourself ?

> 
> Again, we could make syslogd able to read space delimited, but I
> think advising one to use space instead of tab in syslogd.conf
> would be a mistake.

Nobody advises to do that. 
But many people DO (inadvertently). So for their sake, and for the sake
of saving time of everybody - who makes the mistake, and who explains
how to do it right - the proposed feature should be added.

> 
> -- 
> Clark K. Gaylord
> Blacksburg, Virginia USA
> cgaylord@vt.edu
> 





Best Regards,

IgoR

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 10:12:30 1998
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From: Chad Dubuque <freebsdstable@rrnet.com>
Message-Id: <199810151712.MAA06112@rrnet.com>
Subject: tcp-wrappers (was Re: firewalling)
To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:12:10 -0500 (CDT)
In-Reply-To: <19981012030740.A25211@rucus.ru.ac.za> from "Neil Blakey-Milner" at Oct 12, 98 03:07:41 am
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Neil Blakey-Milner wrote:

[...]
> Not every service you run runs from inetd, which is the easiest thing to
> transfer to TCP wrappers.
> 
> Things like web servers, ssh, irc servers, named, SQL databases, smbd, and
> so forth aren't necessarily easy to convert to TCP wrappers.
[...]

ssh does (relatively) easily convert to TCP Wrappers, as do the latest
Sendmails. While not everything works with TCP Wrappers, I'd encourage
anyone thinking of writing a TCP-daemon to encorporate them.

OTOH, I'd definitely use a firewall, too. ;-) Good network planning will
tell you to have your web servers and other "public servers" in your DMZ and
things you need private behind a firewall. But this is off-topic...

On topic, I need to know what compilation options were used when compiling
the TCP wrappers for the packages. I couldn't figure out (quickly) how to
make the shared library (libwrap.so.7.6) from the standard src distribution.

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Chad Dubuque       cdubuque@rrnet.com        Fargo, N.D. (USA)
Red River Net - Internet Communications  http://www.rrnet.com/

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 11:18:10 1998
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To: Chad Dubuque <freebsdstable@rrnet.com>
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On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Chad Dubuque wrote:

> Neil Blakey-Milner wrote:
> 
> [...]
> > Not every service you run runs from inetd, which is the easiest thing to
> > transfer to TCP wrappers.
> > 
> > Things like web servers, ssh, irc servers, named, SQL databases, smbd, and
> > so forth aren't necessarily easy to convert to TCP wrappers.
> [...]
> 
> ssh does (relatively) easily convert to TCP Wrappers, as do the latest
> Sendmails. While not everything works with TCP Wrappers, I'd encourage
> anyone thinking of writing a TCP-daemon to encorporate them.

In general, anything you have source to can be converted to use tcp
wrappers in five minutes or less.



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Thanks for the info ... I hope i've done the partition's in a way they
will work ...


Michael

Michael C. Vergallen A.k.A. Mad Mike, 
Sportstraat 28			http://www.double-barrel.be/mvergall/
B 9000 Gent			ftp://ftp.double-barrel.be/pub/linux/
Belgium				tel : 32-9-2227764 Fax : 32-9-2224976
			


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 14:06:55 1998
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To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
CC: conrads@neosoft.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Trash Voxware? (was Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable)
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Luigi Rizzo wrote:

[some snipping] 
> > I really don't understand the eagerness to drop Voxware at this point in time.
> > Is it simply for the lack of maintainer?
> 
> "simply" ? I am amazed, do people understand that the system is
> evolving so if a module works _now_ it does not mean it will work
> forever without mainteinance ?

	Some of us do understand that, yes. However, given that it works NOW it
is foolish to consider removing it NOW. Also, if it does get broken at
some point in the future a maintainer might become sufficiently
motivated to step forward. 

> On the other hand people is not forced to upgrade, so even when a
> driver is removed they can happily stay with the last version that
> supported their favourite hardware.

	This argument is completely non sequitur. Removing the driver at some
point X in the future means that you've denied access to it for everyone
who installs freebsd at some point beyond X. Sure, a new user could
theoretically go back and get the parts and install it himself, but this
is horrible customer relations. If freebsd really wants to grow then
it's going to have to start thinking along these lines. 

	My point stated simply is that if it's not broken, don't remove it
until there is a suitable, full featured replacement. 

Doug
-- 
***           Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network          ***

    Go PADRES!

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 15:50:56 1998
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From: "Michael C. Vergallen" <mvergall@mail.double-barrel.be>
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However I've been able to boot freeBSD from slice 2 without a bootmgr by
just switching the activated partition and then rerun sysinstall and all
was okey again.

Michael 
---
Michael C. Vergallen A.k.A. Mad Mike, 
Sportstraat 28			http://www.double-barrel.be/mvergall/
B 9000 Gent			ftp://ftp.double-barrel.be/pub/linux/
Belgium				tel : 32-9-2227764 Fax : 32-9-2224976
			


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 21:44:49 1998
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From: "Scot W. Hetzel" <hetzels@westbend.net>
To: "FreeBSD-Stable" <FreeBSD-Stable@FreeBSD.ORG>,
        "FreeBSD-Ports" <FreeBSD-Ports@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Unable to compile port or 2.2-STABLE sources
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:43:59 -0500
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I had upgraded the server on Wed Oct 14 14:07:41 CDT 1998 to the latest
2.2-STABLE sources.  When I tried to update the Apache/FrontPage webserver
to use apache 1.3.3, either it would install the server but would error out
with unable to get the UserDir from the Apache config files in the
fp_install.sh script when trying to setup user/virtual webs.  The script
uses grep & awk to retrieve the info from the httpd.conf, srm.conf, and
access.conf files.

If I tell it to not install the user/virtual webs, then it will complete the
installation.  But any file that had used sed, grep, or awk to modify its
contents would be installed as a 0 byte file (apache.sh.tmpl, apachectl,
apxs, dbmmanage, ...).

Now if I try to recompile the port, it errors in the configure stage:

# make configure
===>  Extracting for apache_fp-1.3.3
>> Checksum OK for apache_1.3.3.tar.gz.
>> Checksum OK for fp30.bsdi3.tar.Z.
===>  Extracting FrontPage install scripts
===>  Patching for apache_fp-1.3.3
===>  Applying FreeBSD patches for apache_fp-1.3.3
===>  Configuring for apache_fp-1.3.3
Configuring for Apache, Version
configure:Error: Module filename doesn't match
'/?mod_[a-zA-Z0-9][a-zA-Z0-9_]*\.c'
*** Error code 1


I then tried to configure apache13 port (v1.3.2) and I get the same error.

Believing that the problem was related to the recent system update, I took
the port to an older 2.2-STABLE, and it had the same problems.

I even tried cvsuping and recompiling 2.2-STABLE, current as of 10-15-98
11:33 pm CDT, and I get the following during a buildworld:

--------------------------------------------------------------
 Rebuilding /usr/include
--------------------------------------------------------------
cd /usr/src && SHARED=symlinks
PATH=/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/sbin:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/sbin:/usr/obj/usr/sr
c/tmp/bin:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/lo
cal/bin:/home/admin/bin
BISON_SIMPLE=/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/share/misc/bison.simple
COMPILER_PATH=/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/libexec:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin
GCC_EXEC_PREFIX=/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/lib/
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/lib
LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/lib:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/lib
NOEXTRADEPEND=t /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin/make
 DESTDIR=/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp includes
cd /usr/src/include &&          /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin/make -B all
install
creating osreldate.h from newvers.sh
. /usr/src/include/../sys/conf/newvers.sh;                       echo
"$COPYRIGH
T" > osreldate.h;                        echo \#'undef __FreeBSD_version' >>
osr
eldate.h;        echo \#'define __FreeBSD_version' $RELDATE >> osreldate.h
*** Error code 2



To make sure that it wasn't a stale src tree, I removed the /usr/obj &
/usr/src directories and re-cvsupped the files.  Stil have the same problem.

Any Ideals as to why this system is not working.

Scot




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 21:56:47 1998
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Subject: Re: Unable to compile port or 2.2-STABLE sources
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From: Scot W. Hetzel <hetzels@westbend.net>
># make configure
>===>  Extracting for apache_fp-1.3.3
>>> Checksum OK for apache_1.3.3.tar.gz.
>>> Checksum OK for fp30.bsdi3.tar.Z.
>===>  Extracting FrontPage install scripts
>===>  Patching for apache_fp-1.3.3
>===>  Applying FreeBSD patches for apache_fp-1.3.3
>===>  Configuring for apache_fp-1.3.3
>Configuring for Apache, Version
>configure:Error: Module filename doesn't match
>'/?mod_[a-zA-Z0-9][a-zA-Z0-9_]*\.c'
>*** Error code 1
>
If anyone wants to check out the port to make sure its not the problem, it
is available from:

ftp://www.westbend.net/pub/apache-fp/FreeBSD/test/apache-fp.133.tgz

Thanks for any help,

Scot



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 15 22:59:10 1998
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Igor Roshchin wrote:
> 
> Now, why one wants to bother to do the changes.
> 
> 1) MANY people make this mistake, learning it "hard way".
>    Note, that it's easy to miss in the man pages that only
> tabs are allowed as separators. (It is not written in capital letters,
> as Clark suggests ;) )

It might be good to add a warning to the top of the standard syslog.conf file if
it's not too late, bearing in mind that the normally recommended editor for new
users is ee, which by default converts tabs to spaces automatically.

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 05:52:38 1998
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From: dan@math.berkeley.edu (Dan Strick)
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To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it
Subject: Re: Trash Voxware? (was Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable)
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> On the other hand people is not forced to upgrade, so even when a
> driver is removed they can happily stay with the last version that
> supported their favourite hardware.

That sounds like something Bill Gates would tell the DOJ.

Dan Strick
dan@math.berkeley.edu

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 06:54:24 1998
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Subject: Re: Trash Voxware? (was Re: rvplayer requires pcm for stable)
To: dan@math.berkeley.edu (Dan Strick)
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> > On the other hand people is not forced to upgrade, so even when a
> > driver is removed they can happily stay with the last version that
> > supported their favourite hardware.
> 
> That sounds like something Bill Gates would tell the DOJ.

$$$ hmmm... let's call Bill... $$$

	luigi


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 07:27:28 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:22:09 +0200
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From: Marius Bendiksen <Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no>
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I've CC:'d this to chat, in case nobody hears me.

Two recent posts of mine have been answered with a wierd bounced-mail
message from www.sentry-foods.com... is this a real mail server through
which the mail has been routed? Has anyone else seen this?

I no longer track -stable, but I'd still like to be able to post, so please
ack/nak this privately.

If anyone'd like details, just ask.


.oO[š Marius Bendiksen š]Oo.
  Dead girls don't say no.

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 08:25:39 1998
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> there are potentially non-system routines that will break with this "fix".

this is the point that worries me.  a change is being proposed in a data
file, and it is being assumed that syslogd(8) is the only program which
reads that file.  as syslog.conf(5) has been documented publicly, i would be
more cautious about changing the definition, for mere cosmetic not emergency
reasons, without widely published warning well in advance.

randy

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 08:29:17 1998
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From: Jaye Mathisen <mrcpu@internetcds.com>
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Annoying >2.2.5 oddity on reboot.
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I have a bunch of DEC ZX and HX 6000 P6 boxes.  Have been running 2.2.5
for heap 'um big long time, zero troubles.

So I upgraded 2 of them to -stable as of yesterday.

Now neither of them will reboot properly.  They shutdown, and get to the
stage where they should start reloading, and they just hang.

I've tried a couple different BIOS revs, and nothing seems to help.

(These boxes have PCI and EISA slots).

Drop back to 2.2.5 kernel, and they reboot just fine.  

Anybody have any idea what may be wrong?  Driving down tot he office just
to finish off a shutdown -r is a big unusability factor.

The chipsets on the boxes are orion and neptune as I recall.

A veeeeery old 3.0 (august of last year I think) runs fine in SMP and
reboots properly.

Thanks for any tips.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 09:04:10 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:03:44 -0400
From: Chris Johnson <cjohnson@palomine.net>
To: Jaye Mathisen <mrcpu@internetcds.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying >2.2.5 oddity on reboot.
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On Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 08:27:08AM -0700, Jaye Mathisen wrote:
> 
> 
> I have a bunch of DEC ZX and HX 6000 P6 boxes.  Have been running 2.2.5
> for heap 'um big long time, zero troubles.
> 
> So I upgraded 2 of them to -stable as of yesterday.
> 
> Now neither of them will reboot properly.  They shutdown, and get to the
> stage where they should start reloading, and they just hang.

The following, from the 2.2.6 errata, might help:

---- System Update Information:
o Root mountpoint change which affects those upgrading via
 "make world" or a FreeBSD 2.2.6 upgrade.

Fix:  2.2.6 introduces a change in the naming of the device from
      which the root filesystem is mounted.  This change affects all systems,
      however user intervention is only required for systems undergoing an
      upgrade installation.

Previously, the root filesystem was always mounted from the
compatibility slice, while other partitions on the same disk were
mounted from their true slice.  This might, for example, have resulted
in an /etc/fstab file like:

# Device      Mountpoint      FStype  Options         Dump    Pass#
/dev/wd0s2b   none            swap    sw              0       0
/dev/wd0a     /               ufs     rw              1       1
/dev/wd0s2f   /local0         ufs     rw              1       1
/dev/wd0s2e   /usr            ufs     rw              1       1

For FreeBSD 2.2.6 and later, this format changes so that the device for
'/' is consistent with others, ie.

# Device      Mountpoint      FStype  Options         Dump    Pass#
/dev/wd0s2b   none            swap    sw              0       0
/dev/wd0s2a   /               ufs     rw              1       1
/dev/wd0s2f   /local0         ufs     rw              1       1 
/dev/wd0s2e   /usr            ufs     rw              1       1

If /etc/fstab is not updated manually in this case, the system will
issue a warning message whenever / is mounted (normally at startup)
indicating the change that must be made.  In addition, trouble may be
experienced if the root filesystem is not correctly unmounted, whereby
the root filesystem will not be marked clean at the next reboot.

This change should be made as soon as the upgraded system has been 
successfully rebooted.
------------------------------
Chris Johnson

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 09:06:05 1998
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Not even in the ballpark.  We're not even getting to the bootloader on a
warm boot.

These are also freshinstalls (I've tried both ways), and the fstabs are
correct.

They cold boot perfectly.  Just won't warm reboot, w/o hitting the reset
button.

On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Chris Johnson wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 08:27:08AM -0700, Jaye Mathisen wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I have a bunch of DEC ZX and HX 6000 P6 boxes.  Have been running 2.2.5
> > for heap 'um big long time, zero troubles.
> > 
> > So I upgraded 2 of them to -stable as of yesterday.
> > 
> > Now neither of them will reboot properly.  They shutdown, and get to the
> > stage where they should start reloading, and they just hang.
> 
> The following, from the 2.2.6 errata, might help:
> 
> ---- System Update Information:
> o Root mountpoint change which affects those upgrading via
>  "make world" or a FreeBSD 2.2.6 upgrade.
> 
> Fix:  2.2.6 introduces a change in the naming of the device from
>       which the root filesystem is mounted.  This change affects all systems,
>       however user intervention is only required for systems undergoing an
>       upgrade installation.
> 
> Previously, the root filesystem was always mounted from the
> compatibility slice, while other partitions on the same disk were
> mounted from their true slice.  This might, for example, have resulted
> in an /etc/fstab file like:
> 
> # Device      Mountpoint      FStype  Options         Dump    Pass#
> /dev/wd0s2b   none            swap    sw              0       0
> /dev/wd0a     /               ufs     rw              1       1
> /dev/wd0s2f   /local0         ufs     rw              1       1
> /dev/wd0s2e   /usr            ufs     rw              1       1
> 
> For FreeBSD 2.2.6 and later, this format changes so that the device for
> '/' is consistent with others, ie.
> 
> # Device      Mountpoint      FStype  Options         Dump    Pass#
> /dev/wd0s2b   none            swap    sw              0       0
> /dev/wd0s2a   /               ufs     rw              1       1
> /dev/wd0s2f   /local0         ufs     rw              1       1 
> /dev/wd0s2e   /usr            ufs     rw              1       1
> 
> If /etc/fstab is not updated manually in this case, the system will
> issue a warning message whenever / is mounted (normally at startup)
> indicating the change that must be made.  In addition, trouble may be
> experienced if the root filesystem is not correctly unmounted, whereby
> the root filesystem will not be marked clean at the next reboot.
> 
> This change should be made as soon as the upgraded system has been 
> successfully rebooted.
> ------------------------------
> Chris Johnson
> 


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 09:33:15 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:32:52 +0100
From: Roger Hardiman <roger@cs.strath.ac.uk>
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Hi,

My FTP logs inform me that lots of you have now downloaded
my 'patched' bt848 driver from -current for your 2.2.x systems.

As I have had no complaints, I plan to commit the -current driver
(currently cvs rev 1.56) into -stable in the next few days.

If anyone has any objections, please let me know.

The driver can be downloaded from
ftp://vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk/pub/bt848/22x
check the README file there too.

Bye
Roger Hardiman
Strathclyde University Telepresence Group

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 09:44:16 1998
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Subject: Re: Annoying >2.2.5 oddity on reboot. 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:27:08 MST."
             <Pine.NEB.3.95.981016082329.2118L-100000@schizo.cdsnet.net> 
References: <Pine.NEB.3.95.981016082329.2118L-100000@schizo.cdsnet.net> 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:44:34 +0900
From: Kazutaka YOKOTA <yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>
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>I have a bunch of DEC ZX and HX 6000 P6 boxes.  Have been running 2.2.5
>for heap 'um big long time, zero troubles.
>
>So I upgraded 2 of them to -stable as of yesterday.

How did you upgrade?

>Now neither of them will reboot properly.  They shutdown, and get to the
>stage where they should start reloading, and they just hang.

Do you know precisely at which point the system is dying?  What is the
last message on the console before the system hangs?

Did you see any suspicious behavior while the systems were up and
running -stable?

`dmesg' output?

Kazu

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 10:05:15 1998
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From: Chad Dubuque <freebsdstable@rrnet.com>
Message-Id: <199810161704.MAA25067@rrnet.com>
Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf
To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:04:54 -0500 (CDT)
In-Reply-To: <m0zUBki-0008G5C@rip.psg.com> from "Randy Bush" at Oct 16, 98 08:25:16 am
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Randy Bush wrote:

> > there are potentially non-system routines that will break with this "fix".
> 
> this is the point that worries me.  a change is being proposed in a data
> file, and it is being assumed that syslogd(8) is the only program which
> reads that file.  as syslog.conf(5) has been documented publicly, i would be
> more cautious about changing the definition, for mere cosmetic not emergency
> reasons, without widely published warning well in advance.

Y'know, I'm all for documenting a change, but I think your worries are a
little unnecessary. For one, the only change being proposed is that spaces
will be allowed instead of just tabs. That's it. Heck, I think it makes a
lot of sense. BSDI's syslogd understands tabs&/or spaces as whitespace, why
shouldn't FreeBSD's? It's not going to add a lot of code, and IT WILL NOT
BREAK ANYTHING.

However, if you *then* put spaces in your syslog.conf, it may
break something (I don't know what) that also reads it. If so, the
administrator should realize that (s)he just changed his/her syslog.conf,
and change the faulty parser. (Switch to perl, use "\s+".)

In short, I believe that syslogd only understanding spaces is a BUG, and
that any program that depends on WHITESPACE being only TABS is BROKEN. Fix
syslogd, add a paragraph to the man page, put a warning in syslog.conf, and
let's get on to fixing other software and writing other drivers.

-- 
Chad Dubuque       cdubuque@rrnet.com        Fargo, N.D. (USA)
Red River Net - Internet Communications  http://www.rrnet.com/

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 10:18:33 1998
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I upgraded via cvsup/makeworld, and reinstalled.  Both fail.

It never gets to the bootloader after a warm boot with a > 2.2.5 kernel.
If I drop back to 2.2.5 and shutdown -r, it reboot fine.

In the case, it appears to be hung searching the Adaptec (onboard) for
drives.



On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote:

> 
> >I have a bunch of DEC ZX and HX 6000 P6 boxes.  Have been running 2.2.5
> >for heap 'um big long time, zero troubles.
> >
> >So I upgraded 2 of them to -stable as of yesterday.
> 
> How did you upgrade?
> 
> >Now neither of them will reboot properly.  They shutdown, and get to the
> >stage where they should start reloading, and they just hang.
> 
> Do you know precisely at which point the system is dying?  What is the
> last message on the console before the system hangs?
> 
> Did you see any suspicious behavior while the systems were up and
> running -stable?
> 
> `dmesg' output?
> 
> Kazu
> 


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 10:28:19 1998
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Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf
In-Reply-To: <m0zUBki-0008G5C@rip.psg.com> from Randy Bush at "Oct 16, 98 08:25:16 am"
To: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush)
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> > there are potentially non-system routines that will break with this "fix".
> 
> this is the point that worries me.  a change is being proposed in a data
> file, and it is being assumed that syslogd(8) is the only program which
> reads that file.  as syslog.conf(5) has been documented publicly, i would be
> more cautious about changing the definition, for mere cosmetic not emergency
> reasons, without widely published warning well in advance.

Yes, this is really my point.  I intentionally overstated the issue
for dramatic purposes, but this is exactly the issue.  If there were
significant benefit, there would not be any debate, which makes this
somewhat ironic -- it is a minor cosmetic proposal, yet it has
generated a lot of heat.  But this heat is caused for exactly the
right reason, viz, extreme religious caution bordering on paranoia
when changing *any* core system file.

Now, having said that, let me say that this proposal is potentially
justifiable, and, moreover, even justifiable within stable (and
hence we can justify even discussing it here ;-), if it can be
argued that it *cannot* break anything.  We are not proposing a
change to syslog.conf; we are talking about a looser definition of
syslog.conf that would permit syslogd to read space delimited files.
This could encourage a particular user to use spaces and hence
break something else that they have independently done, but that
is clearly outside the scope of our concern.  The only system use
of syslog.conf is (can we rigorously confirm this?) syslogd.  The
criterion then is:  is it possible to construct a syslog.conf that
works with the existing syslogd, yet would break with the proposed
change?  The usual case to consider is if there are spaces in the
filenames.  If this won't break, there may be no debate.  Given
that this may break, do we consider it a relevant case, or do we
tell people "if you are stupid enough to put spaces in your file
names, you deserve what you get"?  I can think of no other way that
this change could break existing systems; if so, we are down to
debating this point.

Clark
-- 
Clark K. Gaylord
Blacksburg, Virginia USA
cgaylord@vt.edu

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 10:58:16 1998
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To: Roger Hardiman <roger@cs.strath.ac.uk>
CC: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Newer bt848 driver - ready for commit to -stable
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Roger Hardiman wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> My FTP logs inform me that lots of you have now downloaded
> my 'patched' bt848 driver from -current for your 2.2.x systems.
> 
> As I have had no complaints, I plan to commit the -current driver
> (currently cvs rev 1.56) into -stable in the next few days.
> 
> If anyone has any objections, please let me know.

	With all due respect to the fine work you're doing, I would strongly
oppose bringing this into -Stable at this time. Given that 2.2.8 is
(should be) the last release on the 2.2 branch, adding such a feature at
this time only adds potential for disaster. 

	My vote would be that you continue to have patches available for those
who wish to play with this in -Stable, but that it not become part of
the tree. 

Doug
-- 
***           Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network          ***

    Go PADRES!

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 11:13:29 1998
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Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf
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> > > there are potentially non-system routines that will break with this "fix".
> > 
> > this is the point that worries me.  a change is being proposed in a data
> > file, and it is being assumed that syslogd(8) is the only program which
> > reads that file.  as syslog.conf(5) has been documented publicly, i would be
> > more cautious about changing the definition, for mere cosmetic not emergency
> > reasons, without widely published warning well in advance.
> 
> Y'know, I'm all for documenting a change, but I think your worries are a
> little unnecessary. For one, the only change being proposed is that spaces
> will be allowed instead of just tabs. That's it. Heck, I think it makes a
> lot of sense. BSDI's syslogd understands tabs&/or spaces as whitespace, why
> shouldn't FreeBSD's? It's not going to add a lot of code, and IT WILL NOT
> BREAK ANYTHING.

Isn't 3.0 a brand-new release with lots of other changes that may
potentially "break" things for people?  Why not make the change in
-current, in time for the 3.0 release?  I'm sure it'll get lost in the
noise caused by /usr/bin/perl being perl5 instead of perl4.  And if not
now, then when?  Sooner or later you have to take the plunge, there will
never be a point when you can guarantee that a change you make won't break
something, somewhere.  Besides, only syslogd should be reading
syslog.conf.

- Mike



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 11:39:53 1998
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From: dan@math.berkeley.edu (Dan Strick)
Message-Id: <199810161839.LAA06444@math.berkeley.edu>
To: mvergall@mail.double-barrel.be
Subject: Re:  After installing W95 bootmgr failed  ...
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> Subject: After installing W95 bootmgr failed  ...
> 
> However I've been able to boot freeBSD from slice 2 without a bootmgr by
> just switching the activated partition and then rerun sysinstall and all
> was okey again.

W95 happens.

I normally fix it by booting a FreeBSD installation floppy,
visiting the partition menu, issuing a "w" command without
changing any paritions, and accepting the booteasy option
when prompted.  I guess this is the same thing.

Dan Strick
dan@math.berkeley.edu

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 12:36:55 1998
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Subject: Re:  After installing W95 bootmgr failed  ...
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> > Subject: After installing W95 bootmgr failed  ...
> > 
> > However I've been able to boot freeBSD from slice 2 without a bootmgr by
> > just switching the activated partition and then rerun sysinstall and all
> > was okey again.
> 
> W95 happens.
> 
> I normally fix it by booting a FreeBSD installation floppy,
> visiting the partition menu, issuing a "w" command without
> changing any paritions, and accepting the booteasy option
> when prompted.  I guess this is the same thing.

Win95 and NT overwrite the MBR.  In the "tools" subdirectory of the
FreeBSD FTP site (or cdrom), there's a program called bootinst.exe and a
file called boot.bin.  Grab these, then run bootinst.exe from dos to
reinstall the FreeBSD boot manager.  There's also an alternative boot
manager in tools.

- Mike



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 12:58:14 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:03:29 -0200 (EDT)
From: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios <grios@netshell.vicosa.com.br>
To: FreeBSD <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
cc: FreeBSD Stable <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Walnut Creek vs. CheapBytes
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I wish to buy a FreeBSD dist. So i went to Walnut Creek and CheapBytes.
ChepaBytes is very cheap, but my question is :

Is CheapBytes 4CD the same of Walnut Creek 4CD ?

Linux Slackware, for instance, is the same, no matter where you buy, if
www.lsl.com or www.cheapbytes.com, right? Does F-BSD follow this line ?


Thank you for your time and cooperation.

Best Regards,

Gustavo Rios.

PS: Sorry about my bad english.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 13:09:47 1998
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From: Igor Roshchin <igor@physics.uiuc.edu>
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Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf
In-Reply-To: <199810161727.NAA25636@gaylord.async.vt.edu> from "Clark Gaylord" at "Oct 16, 1998  1:27:48 pm"
To: gaylord@gaylord.async.vt.edu (Clark Gaylord)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:09:09 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: randy@psg.com, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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> hence we can justify even discussing it here ;-), if it can be
> argued that it *cannot* break anything.  We are not proposing a
> change to syslog.conf; we are talking about a looser definition of
> syslog.conf that would permit syslogd to read space delimited files.
> This could encourage a particular user to use spaces and hence
> break something else that they have independently done, but that
> is clearly outside the scope of our concern.  The only system use
> of syslog.conf is (can we rigorously confirm this?) syslogd.  The
> criterion then is:  is it possible to construct a syslog.conf that
> works with the existing syslogd, yet would break with the proposed
> change?  The usual case to consider is if there are spaces in the
> filenames.  If this won't break, there may be no debate.  Given
> that this may break, do we consider it a relevant case, or do we
> tell people "if you are stupid enough to put spaces in your file
> names, you deserve what you get"?  I can think of no other way that
> this change could break existing systems; if so, we are down to
> debating this point.
> 
> Clark
> -- 

Clark,

1. The way I suggested the patch would not get syslogd confused
about the filenames containing spaces, since the file names appear
only in the second field.

2. (Irrelevant to the discussion comment (because of 1.)
There are cases when people have files with paces in them
(if those are Mac or Win* - users), but I have never seen anybody
having any log-file to have spaces in it.

IgoR

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 13:13:56 1998
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Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf
In-Reply-To: <m0zUBki-0008G5C@rip.psg.com> from "Randy Bush" at "Oct 16, 1998  8:25:16 am"
To: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:13:21 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: gaylord@gaylord.async.vt.edu, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > there are potentially non-system routines that will break with this "fix".
> 
> this is the point that worries me.  a change is being proposed in a data
> file, and it is being assumed that syslogd(8) is the only program which
> reads that file.  as syslog.conf(5) has been documented publicly, i would be
> more cautious about changing the definition, for mere cosmetic not emergency
> reasons, without widely published warning well in advance.
> 
> randy
> 

Nothing is supposed to use syslog.conf.
It's the syslogd's config file.

I haven't seen any program using syslog.conf rather than syslogd.
(If you know any - let me know, and if you can, please provide
with the reason why it should be using that config file.)


Anyhow, proposed patch should also patch the syslog.conf(5) man page.

Igor

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 16:23:04 1998
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Subject: Re: Walnut Creek vs. CheapBytes 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:03:29 -0200."
             <Pine.LNX.4.05.9810161658020.28575-100000@netshell.vicosa.com.br> 
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100% of Walnut Creek's FreeBSD profit goes to financially support the 
FreeBSD project (similar to what RedHat does for Linux).  I think it's 
well worth it to have this kind of corporate support as it helps ensure 
the longevity of the project and O/S.  Without this kind of support 
FreeBSD could be in significant debt like one other free O/S project I 
know of -- which could possibly lead to the end of that project or make 
it less viable.


Regards,                       Phone:  (250)387-8437
Cy Schubert                      Fax:  (250)387-5766
Open Systems Group          Internet:  cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca
ITSD                                   Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca
Government of BC            
                                       
> I wish to buy a FreeBSD dist. So i went to Walnut Creek and CheapBytes.
> ChepaBytes is very cheap, but my question is :
> 
> Is CheapBytes 4CD the same of Walnut Creek 4CD ?
> 
> Linux Slackware, for instance, is the same, no matter where you buy, if
> www.lsl.com or www.cheapbytes.com, right? Does F-BSD follow this line ?
> 
> 
> Thank you for your time and cooperation.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Gustavo Rios.
> 
> PS: Sorry about my bad english.
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 17:28:17 1998
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From: George <moschkau@moschkau.com>
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To: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios <grios@netshell.vicosa.com.br>
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        FreeBSD Stable <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Walnut Creek vs. CheapBytes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9810161658020.28575-100000@netshell.vicosa.com.br>
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Gustavo:

I bought FreeBSD with the book "The Complete FreeBSD" by Greg Lehey.  It 
has 4 CD ROMs.  You can't go wrong using FreeBSD.  I like it over all the 
rest, Linux, etc.  Everything worked the first time, mouse, X windows, 
PPP, dialins, etc.

George, W0LMN
=====================================================================
On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios wrote:

> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:03:29 -0200 (EDT)
> From: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios <grios@netshell.vicosa.com.br>
> To: FreeBSD <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
> Cc: FreeBSD Stable <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
> Subject: Walnut Creek vs. CheapBytes
> 
> I wish to buy a FreeBSD dist. So i went to Walnut Creek and CheapBytes.
> ChepaBytes is very cheap, but my question is :
> 
> Is CheapBytes 4CD the same of Walnut Creek 4CD ?
> 
> Linux Slackware, for instance, is the same, no matter where you buy, if
> www.lsl.com or www.cheapbytes.com, right? Does F-BSD follow this line ?
> 
> 
> Thank you for your time and cooperation.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Gustavo Rios.
> 
> PS: Sorry about my bad english.
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
> 

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Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:28:30 +0930
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: George <moschkau@moschkau.com>,
        Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios <grios@netshell.vicosa.com.br>
Cc: FreeBSD <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>,
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Subject: Re: Walnut Creek vs. CheapBytes
References: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9810161658020.28575-100000@netshell.vicosa.com.br> <Pine.BSD.3.91.981016172421.720A-100000@almond.elite.net>
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On Friday, 16 October 1998 at 17:27:31 -0700, George wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios wrote:
>
>> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:03:29 -0200 (EDT)
>> From: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios <grios@netshell.vicosa.com.br>
>> To: FreeBSD <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
>> Cc: FreeBSD Stable <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
>> Subject: Walnut Creek vs. CheapBytes
>>
>> I wish to buy a FreeBSD dist. So i went to Walnut Creek and CheapBytes.
>> ChepaBytes is very cheap, but my question is :
>>
>> Is CheapBytes 4CD the same of Walnut Creek 4CD ?
>>
>> Linux Slackware, for instance, is the same, no matter where you buy, if
>> www.lsl.com or www.cheapbytes.com, right? Does F-BSD follow this line ?
>
> I bought FreeBSD with the book "The Complete FreeBSD" by Greg Lehey.  It
> has 4 CD ROMs.  You can't go wrong using FreeBSD.  I like it over all the
> rest, Linux, etc.  Everything worked the first time, mouse, X windows,
> PPP, dialins, etc.

Jordan has already explained the difference between Walnut Creek and
CheapBytes.  We'd prefer you to buy Walnut Creek instead of
CheapBytes.  We'd prefer you to buy CheapBytes instead of nothing.

Greg
--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 19:12:32 1998
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cc: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios <grios@netshell.vicosa.com.br>,
        FreeBSD <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>,
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Subject: Re: Walnut Creek vs. CheapBytes
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Hi,
If you have the funds to actually purchase a cdrom distribution I would 
purchase the full distribution from Walnut creek. Because it supports the 
Freebsd project. Now about the question off witch OS is better quite
honestly I couldn't say ... Linux,FreeBSD,OpenBSD and NetBSD they all have
their stong and weak points. The only way to find out what OS and
distribution you like best is to try them all for 6 Months and then
deside. I personally Like FreeBSD for it's stability (servers), Linux for
it's ease off use (Workstations), OpenBSD for security ( ideal for a
Firewall ) and NetBSD for the small footprint ( Older Sun's like the
3/60). I also have SunOS on a 3/80 witch is good for learing the way Unix
was in the early 80's ( The Sun 3/80's are a damn site better then the
PC's from that time ) and I'm also getting Solaris and SCO openserver to
play with and maybe a VAX if I can find one on the cheap. So for me the
purchase off distributions is out off the question I try to get them off
the net or at 10 - 20 USD for the commercial OS's..

Michael 
---
Michael C. Vergallen A.k.A. Mad Mike, 
Sportstraat 28			http://www.double-barrel.be/mvergall/
B 9000 Gent			ftp://ftp.double-barrel.be/pub/linux/
Belgium				tel : 32-9-2227764 Fax : 32-9-2224976
			
> > I wish to buy a FreeBSD dist. So i went to Walnut Creek and CheapBytes.
> > ChepaBytes is very cheap, but my question is :
> > 
> > Is CheapBytes 4CD the same of Walnut Creek 4CD ?
> > 
> > Linux Slackware, for instance, is the same, no matter where you buy, if
> > www.lsl.com or www.cheapbytes.com, right? Does F-BSD follow this line ?


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 21:59:04 1998
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To: Jaye Mathisen <mrcpu@internetcds.com>
cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp
Subject: Re: Annoying >2.2.5 oddity on reboot. 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:16:10 MST."
             <Pine.NEB.3.95.981016101500.2118R-100000@schizo.cdsnet.net> 
References: <Pine.NEB.3.95.981016101500.2118R-100000@schizo.cdsnet.net> 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 13:59:28 +0900
From: Kazutaka YOKOTA <yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>
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>I upgraded via cvsup/makeworld, and reinstalled.  Both fail.
>
>It never gets to the bootloader after a warm boot with a > 2.2.5 kernel.

Does this means you saw the message
	Rebooting...
on the console and the BIOS POST message (memory check etc) was shown
but the system never got the stage that it accesses the HDD
and prompt you with "boot:"?  The system is hanging during the BIOS POST,
right?

>If I drop back to 2.2.5 and shutdown -r, it reboot fine.
>
>In the case, it appears to be hung searching the Adaptec (onboard) for
>drives.

This is during the SCSI BIOS is searching for the drives, right?

Kazu

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 16 22:00:39 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:51:05 +1100 (EDT)
From: Andrew MacIntyre <andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au>
To: Jaye Mathisen <mrcpu@internetcds.com>
cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying >2.2.5 oddity on reboot.
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On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Jaye Mathisen wrote:

{...}

> They cold boot perfectly.  Just won't warm reboot, w/o hitting the reset
> button.
> 
> On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Chris Johnson wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 08:27:08AM -0700, Jaye Mathisen wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I have a bunch of DEC ZX and HX 6000 P6 boxes.  Have been running 2.2.5
> > > for heap 'um big long time, zero troubles.
> > > 
> > > So I upgraded 2 of them to -stable as of yesterday.
> > > 
> > > Now neither of them will reboot properly.  They shutdown, and get to the
> > > stage where they should start reloading, and they just hang.

{...}

This is not an answer to your problem, but another datapoint for review.

The machine concerned is a HP Netserver LM/60 (EISA/ISA only, no PCI),
fitted with 32M and 5x1GB mechs on one channel of the internal EISA SCSI
controller (Adaptec, basically a 2742T AFAICT).

I had an Intel EtherExpress/16 (ie0 driver) installed when I did the
initial install (2.2.7-RELEASE, after several of the initial problems were
fixed), and I had no problems with doing a passive FTP install.  The
intitial reboot after FTP went OK - at least there were no error messages.

At that point I left it for a while, and came back some time later to do
the package installation.

Despite the fact the ifconfig reported the interface up, I could not
access the network - eventually it timed out (in sendto??? vague
recollection here).  Not to mention the fact it worked fine during the
install.

A subsequent shutdown -r hung immediately after the "going down" message,
very similar to your symptoms, and required a reset to restart.

I found an Intel EtherExpress Pro/10 ISA card (ex driver), and swapped it
for the EE16, mainly to get rid of some problems the ie driver was
reporting (card/packet errors of some sort).  Same thing - detected fine &
ifconfig'ed, but no viable connection.

I can't recall the exact process that followed, but I did find that
building a custom kernel produced weird results:-
certain combinations of the ie and ex drivers along with other kernel
settings (no of users I think) produced kernels that would work with one
of the drivers if the other driver was present but disabled.  Also
some kernels had the rebooting hang and others were OK.

The kernel that I'm currently using is working just fine with the EEPro10
(the ex driver is in the kernel but disabled), and reboots fine, but
displays the hang symptoms on a halt (it never gets to say "system halted"
- the last thing on the screen is the "going down" message.

The one apparent commonality with your problem is older hardware with EISA
support.  Do your boxes have EISA SCSI controllers onboard and are you
using them? (some of the HP Netservers had EISA SCSI even when they had
PCI buses - I guess because there weren't many reliable PCI-PCI bridge
chips in the early PCI days)

I hadn't tried to install older versions on to this box, so I can't
compare behaviour.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andrew.macintyre@aba.gov.au    (work) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au  (play) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Fido:   Andrew MacIntyre, 3:620/243.18        |        Australia


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 00:47:32 1998
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Subject: Re: Annoying >2.2.5 oddity on reboot.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OS2.3.95.981017091545.181B-100000@CENTRAL> from "Andrew MacIntyre" at "Oct 17, 1998  9:51: 5 am"
To: andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 02:46:56 -0500 (CDT)
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> 
> I had an Intel EtherExpress/16 (ie0 driver) installed when I did the
> initial install (2.2.7-RELEASE, after several of the initial problems were
> fixed), and I had no problems with doing a passive FTP install.  The
> intitial reboot after FTP went OK - at least there were no error messages.
> 
> At that point I left it for a while, and came back some time later to do
> the package installation.
> 
> Despite the fact the ifconfig reported the interface up, I could not
> access the network - eventually it timed out (in sendto??? vague
> recollection here).  Not to mention the fact it worked fine during the
> install.
> 
> A subsequent shutdown -r hung immediately after the "going down" message,
> very similar to your symptoms, and required a reset to restart.
> 
> I found an Intel EtherExpress Pro/10 ISA card (ex driver), and swapped it
> for the EE16, mainly to get rid of some problems the ie driver was
> reporting (card/packet errors of some sort).  Same thing - detected fine &
> ifconfig'ed, but no viable connection.


I don't know if this is relevant,
but I observed similar symptoms when the ethernet card had
either a wrong memory address setting (it was for the smc and 3com card -
the addresses like d4000, cc000, etc.. )
or the IRQ was conflicting with some other device (e.g. withthe second
com-port)

I don't about your particular card -
but you can try to run the dos configuration utility for it,
check the parameters (IRQ, port address, memory address)
and then compare to those which would show up when you
start kernel with -c option.

Sorry, if you already know that.


> 
> I can't recall the exact process that followed, but I did find that
> building a custom kernel produced weird results:-
> certain combinations of the ie and ex drivers along with other kernel
> settings (no of users I think) produced kernels that would work with one
> of the drivers if the other driver was present but disabled.  Also
> some kernels had the rebooting hang and others were OK.

In my case some other driver (ie0)
was somewhat detecting the card, but was not doing anything else to it.
(In general, ie very often recognizes not its cards)

HOpe, this helps.

Igor

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On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 06:34:02PM +0100, Stuart Henderson wrote:
> It might be good to add a warning to the top of the standard syslog.conf file
> if it's not too late, bearing in mind that the normally recommended editor
> for new users is ee, which by default converts tabs to spaces automatically.

Ee does that ?  One more reason to hate it.
The first thing I do on a new installation is edit root's
dotfiles to change the editor to vim or at least vi.  It
would be nice if sysconfig would copy the default editor
from the config options page if it had been changed during
the installation.

Greetings,
				Ripley
-- 
http://www.in-berlin.de/User/nostromo/
==
"You don't say what kind of CD drive or hard disks you have, but since it is
causing you trouble I'll assume it is IDE."  -- comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 02:54:42 1998
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Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf
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> The first thing I do on a new installation is edit root's
> dotfiles to change the editor to vim or at least vi.

Basically the same here, except I simply remove the definition of
EDITOR. Having ee as the default editor for root is awful...

Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 03:53:30 1998
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+----[ sthaug@nethelp.no ]---------------------------------------------
| > The first thing I do on a new installation is edit root's
| > dotfiles to change the editor to vim or at least vi.
| 
| Basically the same here, except I simply remove the definition of
| EDITOR. Having ee as the default editor for root is awful...

The point being that you know how to...

UNIX in general is a wonderful thing, not exposing people to vi or
ed as their first editor is probably a GoodThing(tm).

I don't think a friendlier UNIX is a bad thing, those that know how to
change it to their favourite religious icon.

ee might not be the best thing in the world, but, it's certainly not
the worst.
-- 
Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet|  P:+61 7 3870 0066   |  Andrew
The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd          |  F:+61 7 3870 4477   |  Milton
ACN: 082 081 472                     |  M:+61 416 022 411   |72 Col .Sig
PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068    |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 07:50:48 1998
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Reply-to: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
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To: "Michael C. Vergallen" <mvergall@mail.double-barrel.be>
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Subject: Re: After installing W95 bootmgr failed ... 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:49:00 +0200."
             <Pine.LNX.3.96.981016003023.1331A-100000@ns.double-barrel.be> 
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You will need to reinstall the booteasy MBR.  W95 performs an fdisk 
/mbr during its install.  Whenever possible, always install the MS O/S 
first then non-MS O/S's.

The Minix fdisk will save the MBR to a file.  One could use it or save 
the MBR using dd, install an MS O/S, and restore the MBR.


Regards,                       Phone:  (250)387-8437
Cy Schubert                      Fax:  (250)387-5766
Open Systems Group          Internet:  cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca
ITSD                                   Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca
Government of BC            

> However I've been able to boot freeBSD from slice 2 without a bootmgr by
> just switching the activated partition and then rerun sysinstall and all
> was okey again.
> 
> Michael 
> ---
> Michael C. Vergallen A.k.A. Mad Mike, 
> Sportstraat 28			http://www.double-barrel.be/mvergall/
> B 9000 Gent			ftp://ftp.double-barrel.be/pub/linux/
> Belgium				tel : 32-9-2227764 Fax : 32-9-2224976
> 			
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
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> 



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 07:57:33 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 10:57:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
To: "H. Eckert" <ripley@nostromo.in-berlin.de>
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On 17-Oct-98 H. Eckert wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 06:34:02PM +0100, Stuart Henderson wrote:
>> It might be good to add a warning to the top of the standard syslog.conf
>> file
>> if it's not too late, bearing in mind that the normally recommended editor
>> for new users is ee, which by default converts tabs to spaces
>> automatically.
> 
> Ee does that ?  One more reason to hate it.
> The first thing I do on a new installation is edit root's
> dotfiles to change the editor to vim or at least vi.  It
> would be nice if sysconfig would copy the default editor
> from the config options page if it had been changed during
> the installation.

EE doesn't convert existing tabs only new ones unless you tell it not to.
You can do that from the command line or from the options menu.  I've been
using it for years, once you learn HOW to use it it's not the Evil Editor
you want to think it is.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
   Online Searchable Campground Listings    http://www.camping-usa.com
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               than the federal government"  -- Tony Snow
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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 11:55:57 1998
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> 
>
> ..., once you learn HOW to use it it's not the Evil Editor
> you want to think it is.
> 
> Vince.

Heh! :-}  Once you learn HOW to use vi, or emacs, or MeSs-Word....



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 12:24:58 1998
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To: Kazutaka YOKOTA <yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>
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Correct.  My BIOS starts to load, but hangs searching for drives (in this
case).

Cold boots fine, doesn't woarm boot.

Replace with 2.2.5 kernel, warm boots fine, cold boots fine.

On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote:

> >I upgraded via cvsup/makeworld, and reinstalled.  Both fail.
> >
> >It never gets to the bootloader after a warm boot with a > 2.2.5 kernel.
> 
> Does this means you saw the message
> 	Rebooting...
> on the console and the BIOS POST message (memory check etc) was shown
> but the system never got the stage that it accesses the HDD
> and prompt you with "boot:"?  The system is hanging during the BIOS POST,
> right?
> 
> >If I drop back to 2.2.5 and shutdown -r, it reboot fine.
> >
> >In the case, it appears to be hung searching the Adaptec (onboard) for
> >drives.
> 
> This is during the SCSI BIOS is searching for the drives, right?
> 
> Kazu
> 


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 12:57:08 1998
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From: Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
To: Ted Spradley <tsprad@spradley.tmi.net>
Subject: Re: syslogd and syslog.conf
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG,
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On 17-Oct-98 Ted Spradley wrote:
>> 
>>
>> ..., once you learn HOW to use it it's not the Evil Editor
>> you want to think it is.
>> 
>> Vince.
> 
> Heh! :-}  Once you learn HOW to use ..., MeSs-Word....
> 
> 

Why would you want to use "MeSs-Word" on syslog.conf?

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
   Online Searchable Campground Listings    http://www.camping-usa.com
       "There is no outfit less entitled to lecture me about bloat
               than the federal government"  -- Tony Snow
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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 13:15:05 1998
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To: "FreeBSD-Stable" <FreeBSD-Stable@FreeBSD.ORG>,
        "FreeBSD-Ports" <FreeBSD-Ports@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Unable to compile port or 2.2-STABLE sources
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 15:14:00 -0500
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From: Scot W. Hetzel <hetzels@westbend.net>
>I had upgraded the server on Wed Oct 14 14:07:41 CDT 1998 to the latest
>2.2-STABLE sources.  When I tried to update the Apache/FrontPage webserver
>to use apache 1.3.3, either it would install the server but would error out
>with unable to get the UserDir from the Apache config files in the
>fp_install.sh script when trying to setup user/virtual webs.  The script
>uses grep & awk to retrieve the info from the httpd.conf, srm.conf, and
>access.conf files.
>


Found the trouble,  apparently the 'make world' on the Oct 14 installed
corrupted binaries.  Which wouldn't let another cvsup/world build to
complete.  Last night I downloaded the 2.2.7-19981016-SNAP and installed it
this morning.

Rebooted, and loaded the kernel.GENERIC from the SNAP, and then recompiled
the kernel and rebooted once more.

I then compiled and installed the Apache-FP v1.3.1 server with no further
problems.  A test build of the Apache-FP v1.3.3 Server also built with no
problems.  I haven't installed it as I first need to rebuild the
2.2.7-STABLE sources for long username support.

Scot



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 13:43:24 1998
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On Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 03:48:18PM -0400, Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com> wrote:
> 
> On 17-Oct-98 Ted Spradley wrote:
> >> 
> >>
> >> ..., once you learn HOW to use it it's not the Evil Editor
> >> you want to think it is.
> >> 
> >> Vince.
> > 
> > Heh! :-}  Once you learn HOW to use ..., MeSs-Word....
> > 
> > 
> 
> Why would you want to use "MeSs-Word" on syslog.conf?
> 
> Vince.
> -- 
> ==========================================================================
> Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
>        # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
>    Online Searchable Campground Listings    http://www.camping-usa.com
>        "There is no outfit less entitled to lecture me about bloat
>                than the federal government"  -- Tony Snow
> ==========================================================================
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message

        Hate to be the party pooper here, but when people will learn to
        trim -security (and -stable also in this case) from threads which 
	really should be on -chat?   

-- Yan

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 18:18:00 1998
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To: Jaye Mathisen <mrcpu@internetcds.com>
cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA <yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>,
        stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying >2.2.5 oddity on reboot. 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:21:36 PDT."
             <Pine.NEB.3.95.981017122101.2118y-100000@schizo.cdsnet.net> 
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> 
> Correct.  My BIOS starts to load, but hangs searching for drives (in this
> case).

That's a BIOS bug; it's making assumptions about the state of the 
system.  

Does it actually hang, or if you leave it for long enough, will it come 
up?  Is it the SCSI BIOS hanging, or the system BIOS?  What sort of 
drives are you using?  If they're IDE drives, are you using DMA?

> Cold boots fine, doesn't woarm boot.
> 
> Replace with 2.2.5 kernel, warm boots fine, cold boots fine.
> 
> On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote:
> 
> > >I upgraded via cvsup/makeworld, and reinstalled.  Both fail.
> > >
> > >It never gets to the bootloader after a warm boot with a > 2.2.5 kernel.
> > 
> > Does this means you saw the message
> > 	Rebooting...
> > on the console and the BIOS POST message (memory check etc) was shown
> > but the system never got the stage that it accesses the HDD
> > and prompt you with "boot:"?  The system is hanging during the BIOS POST,
> > right?
> > 
> > >If I drop back to 2.2.5 and shutdown -r, it reboot fine.
> > >
> > >In the case, it appears to be hung searching the Adaptec (onboard) for
> > >drives.
> > 
> > This is during the SCSI BIOS is searching for the drives, right?
> > 
> > Kazu
> > 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
> 

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msmith@cdrom.com



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 18:40:35 1998
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To: Jaye Mathisen <mrcpu@internetcds.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying >2.2.5 oddity on reboot. 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:27:08 PDT."
             <Pine.NEB.3.95.981016082329.2118L-100000@schizo.cdsnet.net> 
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> 
> 
> I have a bunch of DEC ZX and HX 6000 P6 boxes.  Have been running 2.2.5
> for heap 'um big long time, zero troubles.
> 
> So I upgraded 2 of them to -stable as of yesterday.
> 
> Now neither of them will reboot properly.  They shutdown, and get to the
> stage where they should start reloading, and they just hang.
> 
> I've tried a couple different BIOS revs, and nothing seems to help.
> 
> (These boxes have PCI and EISA slots).
> 
> Drop back to 2.2.5 kernel, and they reboot just fine.  
> 
> Anybody have any idea what may be wrong?  Driving down tot he office just
> to finish off a shutdown -r is a big unusability factor.
> 
> The chipsets on the boxes are orion and neptune as I recall.
> 
> A veeeeery old 3.0 (august of last year I think) runs fine in SMP and
> reboots properly.
> 
> Thanks for any tips.

If these are SCSI systems, and if the hang is about where the SCSI BIOS 
should be loading from the disk, it may be that CAM is putting the SCSI 
controllers into a state the BIOS doesn't know how to get them out of.  

If so, have you tried updating the SCSI controller BIOSsen as well?  
Have you tried a 2.2.7-CAM kernel?  

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msmith@cdrom.com



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 19:38:21 1998
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From: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@plutotech.com>
Message-Id: <199810180237.UAA12379@panzer.plutotech.com>
Subject: Re: Annoying >2.2.5 oddity on reboot.
In-Reply-To: <199810180144.SAA08806@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Oct 17, 98 06:44:53 pm"
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:37:09 -0600 (MDT)
Cc: mrcpu@internetcds.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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Mike Smith wrote...
> > 
> > 
> > I have a bunch of DEC ZX and HX 6000 P6 boxes.  Have been running 2.2.5
> > for heap 'um big long time, zero troubles.
> > 
> > So I upgraded 2 of them to -stable as of yesterday.
                            ^^^^^^^^^^

> > Now neither of them will reboot properly.  They shutdown, and get to the
> > stage where they should start reloading, and they just hang.
> > 
> > I've tried a couple different BIOS revs, and nothing seems to help.
> > 
> > (These boxes have PCI and EISA slots).
> > 
> > Drop back to 2.2.5 kernel, and they reboot just fine.  
> > 
> > Anybody have any idea what may be wrong?  Driving down tot he office just
> > to finish off a shutdown -r is a big unusability factor.
> > 
> > The chipsets on the boxes are orion and neptune as I recall.
> > 
> > A veeeeery old 3.0 (august of last year I think) runs fine in SMP and
> > reboots properly.
> > 
> > Thanks for any tips.
> 
> If these are SCSI systems, and if the hang is about where the SCSI BIOS 
> should be loading from the disk, it may be that CAM is putting the SCSI 
                                                  ^^^

CAM is not in -stable.

> controllers into a state the BIOS doesn't know how to get them out of.  
> 
> If so, have you tried updating the SCSI controller BIOSsen as well?  
> Have you tried a 2.2.7-CAM kernel?  

That's a good thing to try.  There's a full release here:

ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/development/cam/...

Ken
-- 
Kenneth Merry
ken@plutotech.com

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 19:49:40 1998
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To: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@plutotech.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying >2.2.5 oddity on reboot. 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:37:09 MDT."
             <199810180237.UAA12379@panzer.plutotech.com> 
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> Mike Smith wrote...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I have a bunch of DEC ZX and HX 6000 P6 boxes.  Have been running 2.2.5
> > > for heap 'um big long time, zero troubles.
> > > 
> > > So I upgraded 2 of them to -stable as of yesterday.
>                             ^^^^^^^^^^

Whoops, missed that bit completely.

> > controllers into a state the BIOS doesn't know how to get them out of.  
> > 
> > If so, have you tried updating the SCSI controller BIOSsen as well?  
> > Have you tried a 2.2.7-CAM kernel?  
> 
> That's a good thing to try.  There's a full release here:
> 
> ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/development/cam/...

How actively are you maintaining CAM in your -stable tree?  With some 
of the 3.0 noise out of the way, I might be able to finally procure 
some build resources for doing these on a semi-regular basis.
-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msmith@cdrom.com



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 17 20:07:04 1998
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From: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@plutotech.com>
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Subject: Re: Annoying >2.2.5 oddity on reboot.
In-Reply-To: <199810180254.TAA09177@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Oct 17, 98 07:54:01 pm"
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 21:06:29 -0600 (MDT)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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Mike Smith wrote...
> > Mike Smith wrote...
> > > controllers into a state the BIOS doesn't know how to get them out of.  
> > > 
> > > If so, have you tried updating the SCSI controller BIOSsen as well?  
> > > Have you tried a 2.2.7-CAM kernel?  
> > 
> > That's a good thing to try.  There's a full release here:
> > 
> > ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/development/cam/...
> 
> How actively are you maintaining CAM in your -stable tree?  With some 
> of the 3.0 noise out of the way, I might be able to finally procure 
> some build resources for doing these on a semi-regular basis.

It probably hasn't been synced since the last -stable CAM snapshot back in
July.


Ken
-- 
Kenneth Merry
ken@plutotech.com

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