From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 14 15:22:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24744 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:22:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aauu.aaweber.com (cs43-106.austin.rr.com [24.93.43.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24739 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:22:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aaweber@austin.rr.com) Received: (from aaweber@localhost) by aauu.aaweber.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA23509 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:24:31 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:24:31 -0600 From: Alan Weber To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: We exist in M$ eyes.. Message-ID: <19990214172431.A23468@austin.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD is a one paragraph danger to M$ http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/trial/mswitness/maritz/iv-v.htm Another important variant of UNIX is "FreeBSD." As its name implies, FreeBSD is indeed free of charge; it is a robust version of UNIX known best for its high quality networking software. The source code is also freely available under a license similar to that used by the Apache Web server, thus enabling the FreeBSD developers to take advantage of the same "open source" groundswell that Linux leverages. Like its more popular cousin Linux, FreeBSD enjoys a growing population of users and developers who contribute to the product. Linux is the next 13 paragraphs of danger. -- When I was a kid I had to rub sticks together to multiply and divide numbers. A calculator was a job description. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 14 19:13:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20940 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:13:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stumpy.dannyland.org (danman.isdn.uiuc.edu [192.17.16.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA20935 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:13:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@stumpy.dannyland.org) Received: (qmail 27073 invoked by uid 1000); 15 Feb 1999 03:13:29 -0000 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:13:29 -0600 From: dannyman To: Alan Weber Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We exist in M$ eyes.. Message-ID: <19990214211329.D25426@stumpy.dannyland.org> References: <19990214172431.A23468@austin.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <19990214172431.A23468@austin.rr.com>; from Alan Weber on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:24:31PM -0600 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:24:31PM -0600, Alan Weber wrote: > > FreeBSD is a one paragraph danger to M$ [...] > Linux is the next 13 paragraphs of danger. I wonder if we have a 1:13 ratio of users or whether we are being over-counted or under-counted. :) But then, since accurate numbers are impossible, I think we all have little choice than to wonder. -danny -- dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 14 21:53:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07515 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:53:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07507 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:53:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id GAA02686; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:53:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Advocacy effect of the ports collection From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 Feb 1999 06:53:11 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG One thing I noticed the other day: if I submit an ftpsearch query for a piece of software that's in our ports collection, most of the hits I get are distfiles on FreeBSD ftp mirrors. Nice to see "FreeBSD" plastered all over your browser when you're actually doing something totally unrelated like installing the latest libpng or whatnot on your University's Solaris / IRIX network :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 14 23:19:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16551 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:19:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panic.oeit.vic.edu.au ([203.0.93.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16544 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:19:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jsutton@panic.oeit.vic.edu.au) Received: from localhost (jsutton@localhost) by panic.oeit.vic.edu.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA10819; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:19:05 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jsutton@panic.oeit.vic.edu.au) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:19:04 +1100 (EST) From: Joel Sutton To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocacy effect of the ports collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15 Feb 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > One thing I noticed the other day: if I submit an ftpsearch query for > a piece of software that's in our ports collection, most of the hits I > get are distfiles on FreeBSD ftp mirrors. Nice to see "FreeBSD" > plastered all over your browser when you're actually doing something > totally unrelated like installing the latest libpng or whatnot on your > University's Solaris / IRIX network :) Can this be classed as "positive" advocacy??? Sounds like it has the potential to annoy a lot of people. Cheers, Joel... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 14 23:52:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20642 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:52:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20635 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:52:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id IAA03401; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:51:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Joel Sutton Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocacy effect of the ports collection References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 Feb 1999 08:51:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: Joel Sutton's message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:19:04 +1100 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joel Sutton writes: > On 15 Feb 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > One thing I noticed the other day: if I submit an ftpsearch query for > > a piece of software that's in our ports collection, most of the hits I > > get are distfiles on FreeBSD ftp mirrors. Nice to see "FreeBSD" > > plastered all over your browser when you're actually doing something > > totally unrelated like installing the latest libpng or whatnot on your > > University's Solaris / IRIX network :) > Can this be classed as "positive" advocacy??? Sounds like it has the > potential to annoy a lot of people. No, why should it annoy people? You get the file you're looking for, and more likely than not you find a mirror pretty close to you. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 15 00:11:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22326 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:11:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from foobar.franken.de (foobar.franken.de [194.94.249.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22304 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:11:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from logix@foobar.franken.de) Received: (from logix@localhost) by foobar.franken.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id JAA20272; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:09:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19990215090910.A20241@foobar.franken.de> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:09:10 +0100 From: Harold Gutch To: Joel Sutton , Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocacy effect of the ports collection References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Joel Sutton on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 06:19:04PM +1100 X-Organisation: BatmanSystemDistribution X-Mission: To free the world from the Penguin Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 06:19:04PM +1100, Joel Sutton wrote: > On 15 Feb 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > One thing I noticed the other day: if I submit an ftpsearch query for > > a piece of software that's in our ports collection, most of the hits I > > get are distfiles on FreeBSD ftp mirrors. Nice to see "FreeBSD" > > plastered all over your browser when you're actually doing something > > totally unrelated like installing the latest libpng or whatnot on your > > University's Solaris / IRIX network :) > > Can this be classed as "positive" advocacy??? Sounds like it has the > potential to annoy a lot of people. > I think it definitely is positive; whenever somebody (normally a non-FreeBSD user, the FreeBSD-people know about "their" distfiles-archives :) ) asks me wether I know where he can get the latest version of lynx, mutt, screen, or any other standard software, I always answer with a ftp..freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/distfiles/ and of course add a "yes, that's the normal source you'll find there, no FreeBSD binary". I haven't heard anybody say anything negative about that - what's so wrong about a huge source-archive, wether it has a "FreeBSD" in the host-/directory-name or not ? There's nothing negative about it, at least not as long as the people are aware of the fact that they'll find original, unpatched sources on those FTP-mirrors. I don't think that I would, say, get the latest screen sources from ftp.linux.org:/whatever/... if I was in doubt wether I might find some screen specifically patched for Linux there (no Linux-bashing intended, this was merely an example). It's the same with the login-screen on ftp.cdrom.com - people basically just see that FreeBSD exists and that it does some use for them (even if it may not be much, but at least they're able to find the sources they need all in one place). bye, Harold -- Sleep is an abstinence syndrome wich occurs due to lack of caffein. Wed Mar 4 04:53:33 CET 1998 #unix, ircnet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 15 00:44:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28061 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:44:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28053 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:44:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA12312; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:44:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd012306; Mon Feb 15 01:44:26 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA11876; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:44:25 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902150844.BAA11876@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: We exist in M$ eyes.. To: dannyman@dannyland.org (dannyman) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:44:24 +0000 (GMT) Cc: aaweber@austin.rr.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990214211329.D25426@stumpy.dannyland.org> from "dannyman" at Feb 14, 99 09:13:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > FreeBSD is a one paragraph danger to M$ > [...] > > Linux is the next 13 paragraphs of danger. > > I wonder if we have a 1:13 ratio of users or whether we are being over-counted > or under-counted. :) > > But then, since accurate numbers are impossible, I think we all have little > choice than to wonder. I like to look at it in a more positive light: o Microsoft says FreeBSD is a UNIX implementation. o Microsoft is 1/13th as threatened by it because HotMail, a Microsoft company, is still using it. On the negative side: o If you don't believe that Microsoft is taking the HotMail system apart piece by piece, from which effort they will be able to build a 10% better Microsoft version, then you are a moron. Microsoft bought HotMail for the R&D aspect of having a wind-up toy that works on which to model their knock-off toy. Bet that the next version of Exchange and IIS will be able to replace the Solaris and FreeBSD at HotMail; it's practically money in the bank. o Think of all the statistics that they will get that HotMail was too busy or too stupid to collect without Microsoft there. Even an engineer with a near room temperature IQ (Fahrenheit) would have a hard time failing to utilize that data to advanatage in a product design or three. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 15 05:32:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04221 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:32:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA04216 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:32:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id WAA25762; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:32:03 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36C8163E.44B74583@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:42:39 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: dannyman , aaweber@austin.rr.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We exist in M$ eyes.. References: <199902150844.BAA11876@usr08.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > I like to look at it in a more positive light: > > o Microsoft says FreeBSD is a UNIX implementation. Hey, don't they own Unix (tm)? So now we can actually claim we *are* Unix? :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org Well, as a computer geek, I have to believe in the binary universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 15 08:47:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28591 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:47:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from acheron.middleboro.ma.us (acheron.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.162.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28585 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us) Received: (from mason@localhost) by acheron.middleboro.ma.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14479; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:45:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:45:54 -0500 From: Mason Loring Bliss To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We exist in M$ eyes.. Message-ID: <19990215114554.C413@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> References: <19990214211329.D25426@stumpy.dannyland.org> <199902150844.BAA11876@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199902150844.BAA11876@usr08.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 08:44:24AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 08:44:24AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > Bet that the next version of Exchange and IIS will be able to replace > the Solaris and FreeBSD at HotMail; it's practically money in the bank. I would be quite willing to bet that HoTMaiL doesn't so much as slightly lessen their usage of FreeBSD in the future. If anything, I see it increasing. -- Mason Loring Bliss (( "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind dreams mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us )) build their nest with fragments dropped http://acheron.ne.mediaone.net (( from day's caravan." - Rabindranath Tagore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 15 10:00:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07926 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:00:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-16.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07870 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:00:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA06446; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:56:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:56:03 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Joel Sutton cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocacy effect of the ports collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Joel Sutton wrote: > On 15 Feb 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > One thing I noticed the other day: if I submit an ftpsearch query for > > a piece of software that's in our ports collection, most of the hits I > > get are distfiles on FreeBSD ftp mirrors. Nice to see "FreeBSD" > > plastered all over your browser when you're actually doing something > > totally unrelated like installing the latest libpng or whatnot on your > > University's Solaris / IRIX network :) > > Can this be classed as "positive" advocacy??? Sounds like it has the > potential to annoy a lot of people. Do you get annoyed at Sunsite because it has "sun" in the hostname? Me I get annoyed b/c they're all layed out differently and often busy or not available.. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 15 10:25:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10731 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:25:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10726 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:25:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-014.thuntek.net [207.66.52.14]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id LAA21153; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:25:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36C8745D.F6BF03B1@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:24:13 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mason Loring Bliss CC: Terry Lambert , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We exist in M$ eyes.. References: <19990214211329.D25426@stumpy.dannyland.org> <199902150844.BAA11876@usr08.primenet.com> <19990215114554.C413@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 08:44:24AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Bet that the next version of Exchange and IIS will be able to replace > > the Solaris and FreeBSD at HotMail; it's practically money in the bank. > > I would be quite willing to bet that HoTMaiL doesn't so much as slightly > lessen their usage of FreeBSD in the future. If anything, I see it increasing. > I agree with Terry here. Even if M$ has to install 40 computers to replace 12, they will do so. They can't afford not to, for their image of invincibility. I do not, however, believe they will ever be able to beat FBSD or Solaris technically, unless they rewrite their OS in a kernel/X-GUI configuration. It doesn't matter how many progs and $$$ they throw at it, ain'na gonna happen. M$ ease of use is predicated upon having multiple ways to accomplish something, and all those events need testing and handling. -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde dwilde1@thuntek.net [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 15 11:03:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14630 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:03:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14613 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:03:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.138]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA3D1A; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:03:36 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <36C8163E.44B74583@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:12:45 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Subject: Re: We exist in M$ eyes.. Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, aaweber@austin.rr.com, dannyman , Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15-Feb-99 Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Terry Lambert wrote: >> >> I like to look at it in a more positive light: >> >> o Microsoft says FreeBSD is a UNIX implementation. > > Hey, don't they own Unix (tm)? So now we can actually claim we *are* > Unix? :-) Nope, that was given by Novell to the Open Consortium, or X-Open, or whatever it's name is nowadays... Shame btw that the name which was the epitome of freedom on the sourcelevel has been commercialised so much =\ --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven join #FreeBSD on Undernet asmodai(at)wxs.nl This is my Truth, tell me your's... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 15 11:58:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25462 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:58:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bbcc.ctc.edu (bbcc.ctc.edu [134.39.180.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25450 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:58:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@bbcc.ctc.edu) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bbcc.ctc.edu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA18687 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:52:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:52:10 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Gateway Computers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just spoke with my contacts at gateway. We are one of their major accounts, so they do take some notice of us. I asked them about shipping computers with FreeBSD installed, instead of WinNT. My contact is going to look up the person in the engineering department that I would need to send "Evaluation Copies" of FreeBSD to. (Jordan, I might need some FreeBSD CD's soon :-) She said that she hasn't had any demand for alternative OS's and didn't see it on their immediate software road map. Well, it looks like it is time to generate some demand, or at least some notice. You might suggest to your contacts at Gateway, (if you don't have any, make some) that it would be really great if they would ship their web servers with FreeBSD. Or, suggest that you would like to see "FreeBSD Certified" on their web pages. Since Dell is offering Linux, its probably a good time to focus on Gateway to get them to offer FreeBSD. -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 15 13:52:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12049 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:49:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12040 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:49:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4044.ime.net [209.90.195.54]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.3/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id QAA02958; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:48:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990215164219.03b3df10@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:46:19 -0500 To: Chris Coleman , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Gateway Computers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 02:52 PM 2/15/99 , Chris Coleman wrote: >I just spoke with my contacts at gateway. We are one of their major >accounts, so they do take some notice of us. I asked them about shipping >computers with FreeBSD installed, instead of WinNT. My contact is going >to look up the person in the engineering department that I would need to >send "Evaluation Copies" of FreeBSD to. > >(Jordan, I might need some FreeBSD CD's soon :-) > >She said that she hasn't had any demand for alternative OS's and didn't >see it on their immediate software road map. > >Well, it looks like it is time to generate some demand, or at least some >notice. > >You might suggest to your contacts at Gateway, (if you don't have any, >make some) that it would be really great if they would ship their web >servers with FreeBSD. > >Or, suggest that you would like to see "FreeBSD Certified" on their web >pages. > >Since Dell is offering Linux, its probably a good time to focus on Gateway >to get them to offer FreeBSD. Yeah it's such a shame that any recent Gateway 2000 product I've had has died relatively shortly. Thus I no longer have anyone purchase from there. It's unfortunate that their motherboards are Certified-Micronics POS. My 386DX-33 (2499$ from Gateway at the time) ran fine. It was the first machine I ever used FreeBSD (or Linux on (0.99pl22 of Slackware at that time)). For 4mb/120mb it was a pretty decent machine for the job and did not die before it was put down. The 486-SX33 killed 4 motherboards. The P166MMX Destination at work killed 2, until I finally just replaced the base with a Sony VAIO PCV-210. My current machine is a Supermicro SC701-A Case with a P6DBS mainboard. I think I'll stick to building and designing. This machine is pretty beastly. However, I do really like the 6 Sony PCV-210's I managed to snag for 899$ a piece. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP DSS/1024 Public Key ID: 0x409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 15 15:14:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20977 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20895; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:14:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19985; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:14:38 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, announce@bafug.org Subject: Windows Refund Day: Bay Area Report Message-ID: <19990215151438.A19842@orcrist.mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD folk, This report is being written from the CoffeeNet, where we've all met after the event in Foster City. We didn't exactly "storm the Gates", but both the Linux and FreeBSD communities turned out in force, accompanied by a couple of others (I saw a Sun and an SCO person). We got to the parking garage where the Microsoft "welcome table" was set up. There were Microsoft-sponsored refreshments and a lot of press, including many major stations. A few of us grabbed some press members with cameras and headed for the main entrance. We arrived and were greeted by a friendly Microsoft security guard, who told us that we were not allowed to go up to the ninth floor (where the Microsoft offices are). When the press members began questioning her, she called another person, who apparently called security, because they showed up long before any Microsoft representative would talk to us. I was interviewed by several press members at this time, right from the lobby of the Microsoft office. Several others had arrived by this time and we were becoming more forceful in our attempts to get to the Microsoft Office. People began getting on the elevators, only to find that they had been locked down so that nobody could visit the ninth floor. those going to the tenth and using the stairs found that the stair doors were locked from the inside as well, so nobody actually got into the office. (Later, they locked the elevators down completely.) After twenty minutes or so of increased numbers of refund attempters, a person claiming to be a Microsoft representative appeared. While several of us attempted to get some straight answers out of him, he would only give us the typical Microsoft doubletalk. He handed out a sheet explaining Microsoft's statement on the refund policy[1] and would only echo what was contained on that paper. Although several tried, we were unable to get him to admit even that this was Microsoft policy and not just a random statement. Around this time, the rest of the group arrived and the press began seriously interviewing everyone. I saw Eric Raymond and many others being questioned repeatedly on the purpose of the gathering and whether Microsoft had issued a statement. There was a _lot_ of mass media presence at the event, and Microsoft's attempts to stonewall us at the door didn't impress anyone. I look forward to the news reports tonight and tomorrow. Toward the end, we all just stood in the courtyard and kibitzed before finally breaking up around 1:45 to return to our regularly scheduled activities (and a fine gathering at the CoffeeNet). Gregory Sutter, reporting for OSS News[2], signing off. [1] For the full document, see after 20:00 PST today. [2] and Daemon News. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter My reality check just bounced. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 16 05:07:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA15871 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:07:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA15866 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:07:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from jackv (adsl-209-76-108-106.dsl.pacbell.net [209.76.108.106]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id FAA20329 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:07:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004f01be59ad$49632080$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" To: Subject: Big Blue to ship Linux on x86, PowerPC systems Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:07:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Posted 16/02/99 11:53am by Tony Smith Big Blue to ship Linux on x86, PowerPC systems IBM will next month announce its intention to bundle Linux on a wide range of systems and that it will develop its own version of the OS for its RS/6000 machines. The announcement, due to take place at next month's LinuxWorld show in San Jose, California, will see Big Blue licensing a range of Linux distributions from the leading vendors. Red Hat, Caldera, Pacific HiTech and SuSE have been suggested by sources as likely suppliers of the OS for IBM's Netfinity servers and a Linux edition of its PC300 desktop line. IBM will also offer Linux editions of its low-end RS/6000 servers and workstation. Initially, it will bundle LinuxPPC's PowerPC incarnation of the OS at least until its own distribution of the freeware OS is complete. Sources suggest the decision to support multiple versions of Linux -- beyond the need for distributions aimed at different processors -- arose because the company was unhappy with sticking with a single supplier. And there's another advantage: tying specific distributions to specific systems will allows IBM to spread the technical support burden across multiple suppliers. ® To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 16 06:02:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20278 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:02:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.GTS.NET (whambam.gts.net [204.138.66.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20258 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:01:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tronix!signalpath.on.ca!louis@GTS.NET) Received: from tronix by mail.GTS.NET (Smail-3.2.0.104 1998-Nov-20 #1; 1998-Nov-20) (1683 bytes) via rmail with /P:uucp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp id (sender ) for freebsd.org!advocacy; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:02:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from tronix.signalpath.on.ca([192.168.250.1]) (1367 bytes) by tronix.signalpath.on.ca via sendmail with P:esmtp/R:smart_host/T:uux (sender: ) id for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:57:35 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.104 1998-Nov-20 #1 built 1999-Jan-2) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:57:35 -0500 (EST) From: Louis Bertrand Reply-To: Louis Bertrand To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@netbsd.org, OpenBSD Advocacy List Subject: News items for DaemonNews? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear BSD'ers, DaemonNews, the BSD ezine, is looking for news items. These can be announcements about new products or CD-ROM releases, BSD in the news, or short items about people and places with a BSD angle. The items will go on a News page, where news items and press releases are clearly flagged. Nothing needs to be very long -- just informative and fresh. Please submit the items to . But if you're not sure if you have a news tip, email me directly and we can work out the details. I'm more interested in getting the facts straight than critiquing your writing! Thanks --Louis Louis Bertrand, Bowmanville, ON, Canada DaemonNews news editor or To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 16 06:39:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25023 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:39:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA25016 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:39:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-048.thuntek.net [207.66.52.48]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA04696; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:39:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36C990E1.801AD5E1@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:38:09 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Coleman CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gateway Computers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ask Gateway to supply FreeBSD < Excellent idea, Chris. I had the thought of walking into a Gateway Center and doing just that. Time for some 'vote with your feet' advocacy! -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde dwilde1@thuntek.net [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 16 11:53: 5 1999 Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26211 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:53:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15365 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:52:56 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id NAA03317; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:48:47 -0600 Message-ID: <19990216134847.31204@right.PCS> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:48:47 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD robustness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have to admit that I'm just a little bit disappointed. I have a machine which is acting as our corporate mailhub (all mail traffic passes through this machine), with the following stats: > uname -v FreeBSD 2.2-961014-SNAP #0: Tue Oct 15 01:27:25 1996 jkh@time.cdrom.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC > uptime 1:43PM up 586 days, 5:52, 1 user, load averages: 1.11, 1.08, 1.02 The problem? We apparently are required (by fire department or insurance regulations) to test our halon system. This means that all power to the switch room will be cut for the duration of the test, and I have to shutdown the machine. I was hoping to get another 2 years out of it, barring hardware failures. Oh well. *sniff* At least it proves the robustness of the operating system, and I guess I'll take advantage of the downtime to load 3.1-RELEASE on it. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 16 14:53:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E332810E8F for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:52:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id OAA01412; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:52:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id OAA25673; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:52:08 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id PAA08046; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:52:05 -0700 Message-ID: <36C9F695.6FE5CE8A@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:52:05 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD robustness References: <19990216134847.31204@right.PCS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > I have to admit that I'm just a little bit disappointed. I have > a machine which is acting as our corporate mailhub (all mail traffic > passes through this machine), with the following stats: > > > uname -v > FreeBSD 2.2-961014-SNAP #0: Tue Oct 15 01:27:25 1996 > jkh@time.cdrom.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC > > uptime > 1:43PM up 586 days, 5:52, 1 user, load averages: 1.11, 1.08, 1.02 > > The problem? We apparently are required (by fire department or > insurance regulations) to test our halon system. This means that > all power to the switch room will be cut for the duration of the > test, and I have to shutdown the machine. > > I was hoping to get another 2 years out of it, barring hardware failures. > > Oh well. *sniff* > > At least it proves the robustness of the operating system, and I guess > I'll take advantage of the downtime to load 3.1-RELEASE on it. And stick a gargantuan UPS on it, so it'll live through the next halon- dump test. Right? ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 16 16: 6: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0480C10EC6 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:05:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16310 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:05:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id SAA14068 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:01:42 -0600 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id SAA29142; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:05:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:05:19 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199902170005.SAA29142@free.pcs> To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD robustness X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-advocacy In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: >Jonathan Lemon wrote: >> >> I have to admit that I'm just a little bit disappointed. I have >> a machine which is acting as our corporate mailhub (all mail traffic >> passes through this machine), with the following stats: >> >> > uname -v >> FreeBSD 2.2-961014-SNAP #0: Tue Oct 15 01:27:25 1996 >> jkh@time.cdrom.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC >> > uptime >> 1:43PM up 586 days, 5:52, 1 user, load averages: 1.11, 1.08, 1.02 >> >> The problem? We apparently are required (by fire department or >> insurance regulations) to test our halon system. This means that >> all power to the switch room will be cut for the duration of the >> test, and I have to shutdown the machine. >> >> I was hoping to get another 2 years out of it, barring hardware failures. >> >> Oh well. *sniff* >> >> At least it proves the robustness of the operating system, and I guess >> I'll take advantage of the downtime to load 3.1-RELEASE on it. > >And stick a gargantuan UPS on it, so it'll live through the next halon- >dump test. Right? ;^) Actually, it's already on a huge UPS, and also has a diesel generator as a backup. However, the halon mechanism cuts _ALL_ power to the room. This means that it shuts down the UPS too. :-( -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 16 17:13:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75EC1134A for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26987; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:13:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd026895; Tue Feb 16 18:13:19 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA14285; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:13:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902170113.SAA14285@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD robustness To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:13:11 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jlemon@americantv.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36C9F695.6FE5CE8A@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at Feb 16, 99 03:52:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I was hoping to get another 2 years out of it, barring hardware failures. > > > > Oh well. *sniff* > > > > At least it proves the robustness of the operating system, and I guess > > I'll take advantage of the downtime to load 3.1-RELEASE on it. > > And stick a gargantuan UPS on it, so it'll live through the next halon- > dump test. Right? ;^) You should be able to "hot plug" one of those ISA board UPS units, and hit the switch on the back. That should be enough to keep it up 10-15 minutes. If that's not enough, you should be able to plug it into a real UPS, since you'll have 10-15 minutes to do the deed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 17 10: 3:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B526A11029 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:03:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08014 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:16:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd007953; Wed Feb 17 11:15:56 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA17198 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:03:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902171803.LAA17198@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: 5 or 6 FreeBSD books To: advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:03:21 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone approached anyone about translation and publication rights in English for the 5 or 6 (last time I counted) Japanese FreeBSD books? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 17 10:12:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from PACIFICO.mail.telepac.pt (mail2.telepac.pt [194.65.3.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94CB310E67 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:12:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjna@mail.telepac.pt) Received: from mail.telepac.pt ([194.65.221.200]) by PACIFICO.mail.telepac.pt (Intermail v3.1 117 241) with ESMTP id <19990217181239.QNO25784@mail.telepac.pt> for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:12:39 +0000 Message-ID: <36CB0788.E8224142@mail.telepac.pt> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:16:40 +0000 From: Miguel Almeida X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: pt, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Gartner on Linux and FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm not sure if this has already been reported in the mailing list but I just read this small Gartner Group report: "Divorcing Thin Server Software from the Hardware" http://advisor.gartner.com/n_inbox/hotcontent/hc_2121999_3.html -- Miguel Almeida mjna@mail.telepac.pt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 17 10:56:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B579C113E3 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:56:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id KAA07265; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:56:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id KAA15571; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:56:06 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id LAA29629; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:56:03 -0700 Message-ID: <36CB10C3.21249511@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:56:03 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Miguel Almeida Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, articles@daemonnews.org Subject: Re: Gartner on Linux and FreeBSD References: <36CB0788.E8224142@mail.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Miguel Almeida wrote: > > Hello, > > I'm not sure if this has already been reported in the mailing list but > I just read this small Gartner Group report: > > "Divorcing Thin Server Software from the Hardware" > http://advisor.gartner.com/n_inbox/hotcontent/hc_2121999_3.html An excellent summary, with accurate viewpoints. I don't agree with his summary; I fail to see how anyone is going to help their bottom line by trying to shoe-horn Winders NT into a "thin" server, but all in all this is a great article for FreeBSD. That's why I've cc'd Daemon News, so this can be added to the News Bytes. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 17 18:43:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107D410E3B for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:43:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16673; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:56:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd016558; Wed Feb 17 19:56:14 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA08114; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:43:03 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902180243.TAA08114@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Gartner on Linux and FreeBSD To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:43:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mjna@mail.telepac.pt, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, articles@daemonnews.org In-Reply-To: <36CB10C3.21249511@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at Feb 17, 99 11:56:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm not sure if this has already been reported in the mailing list but > > I just read this small Gartner Group report: > > > > "Divorcing Thin Server Software from the Hardware" > > http://advisor.gartner.com/n_inbox/hotcontent/hc_2121999_3.html > > An excellent summary, with accurate viewpoints. I don't agree with his > summary; I fail to see how anyone is going to help their bottom line > by trying to shoe-horn Winders NT into a "thin" server, but all in > all this is a great article for FreeBSD. > > That's why I've cc'd Daemon News, so this can be added to the News Bytes. The part I though was silly was the "Thin Server OS Recommendations" table, specifically: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thin Server Type OS Choice Reasoning ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Both provide open platform with First: Linux stable, relaiable TCP/IP stacks. Intranet Thin Server Second: FreeBSD FreeBSD provides intellectual property protection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Uh, am I missing something? "FreeBSD protects your intellectual property; use Linux instead, because you don't want that for some strange reason." Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 17 19: 0: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C113111ED for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:59:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id SAA11125; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id SAA07704; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:59:54 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id TAA29803; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:59:51 -0700 Message-ID: <36CB8227.DEEE46A8@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:59:51 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: mjna@mail.telepac.pt, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, articles@daemonnews.org Subject: Re: Gartner on Linux and FreeBSD References: <199902180243.TAA08114@usr06.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > An excellent summary, with accurate viewpoints. I don't agree with his > > summary; I fail to see how anyone is going to help their bottom line > > by trying to shoe-horn Winders NT into a "thin" server, but all in > > all this is a great article for FreeBSD. > > > > That's why I've cc'd Daemon News, so this can be added to the News Bytes. > > The part I though was silly was the "Thin Server OS Recommendations" > table, specifically: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Thin Server Type OS Choice Reasoning > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Both provide open platform with > First: Linux stable, relaiable TCP/IP stacks. > Intranet Thin Server Second: FreeBSD FreeBSD provides intellectual > property protection. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Uh, am I missing something? No, but the author is: a CLUE! > "FreeBSD protects your intellectual property; use Linux > instead, because you don't want that for some strange > reason." I think he was going along the lines of "intranet server == something you run a database engine on and develop custom apps." This thought was closely followed by "Linux has more/better application development tools," which is certainly a questionable assumption. But all in all, it's still the best evaluation I've ever seen from one of the "stuffed suit" organizations. Compare this to the idiocies, fallacies, and outright lies contained in the "Halloween" memo. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 17 21:36:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E22D113E2; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:36:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from jackv (adsl-209-76-108-106.dsl.pacbell.net [209.76.108.106]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id VAA18701; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:36:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002701be5b00$8a411040$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" To: Cc: Subject: IBM to offer Linux with Netfinity computers - NYT Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:34:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG IBM to offer Linux with Netfinity computers New York Times NEW YORK -- In perhaps the most significant endorsement yet of the little operating system that could, IBM Corp. will announce Wednesday that beginning next month it will ship its Netfinity line of network server computers with the free operating system Linux pre-installed alongside Microsoft's Windows NT. Linux is a highly regarded flavor of Unix, a kind of operating system widely used in powerful business machines that serve as the hub of local computer networks and Web sites. But despite its power and stability, Linux has not gained wide acceptance because corporations have had nowhere to turn for support; it was designed and built by a loose international coalition of programmers who freely share its source code and collaborate on its development. Thus, there is no company that can be held responsible for the product. IBM will address that drawback by offering customers technical support for the software through an agreement with a Linux distributor, Red Hat Software. The move by IBM comes on the heels of decisions by several other computer manufacturers -- most notably Hewlett-Packard and Dell Computer -- to sell machines that run Linux, making it a viable competitor to other flavors of Unix and, most notably, to Windows NT. Although some system administrators and programmers within companies have embraced Linux because of its flexibility and propensity not to crash, the operating system has rarely been officially sanctioned by management because of its orphan status. ``This increases the credibility of Linux in organizations,'' said Stacey Quandt, an analyst with Giga Information Group in Cambridge, Mass. ``A lot of companies are running Linux on some server in a closet somewhere, but when IBM comes out and says they're supporting it, it creates a lot more credibility.'' IBM said customer demand had been growing for Linux, particularly among Internet service providers and companies that want to take advantage of its open source code to modify their systems for their own needs. ``If you go back to early PC days, what you typically saw was technically literate folks using PC's at home and moving them into businesses where it wasn't a top-down decision,'' said Phil Hester, chief technology officer of IBM's personal systems group. ``This has a lot of that same feel to it. We think we need to understand this marketplace and grow with it.'' Hester's division, which is based in Raleigh, N.C., just five miles from Red Hat's headquarters, has set up a laboratory to test Linux on the Netfinity servers, as well as on work stations and its Thinkpad line of laptops. In addition to Linux and Windows NT, the Netfinity servers will continue to be shipped with IBM's OS/2 operating system. The deal positions Red Hat, which also supplies Linux to Hewlett-Packard, as the leading commercial distributor of the operating system, although IBM left open the possibility that it would also contract with one of Red Hat's competitors, like Caldera Inc. or SuSe. Linux, which can be had free on the Internet, has spawned a cottage industry of distributors that combine its various pieces on a CD-ROM with basic technical information. Red Hat, a five-year-old start-up that last year received an equity investment from the Intel Corp., aims to make money by selling technical assistance to Linux's growing customer base. Under the agreement with IBM, customers will have the option of buying Red Hat support directly or through IBM. The company's existing support contracts range from $1,000 a year for a single user to $60,000 a year for enterprises, depending on the number of computers linked to the server. Microsoft uses a different approach, pricing its support for the Windows NT Server by ``incident,'' meaning that when a customer has a problem, he gets Microsoft's help for a specified amount of money. Typically, this is about $195, with a volume discount for companies that prepay for 10 incidents. Windows NT itself range in price from about $250 for a single computer to about $55 per computer when licensed for 25 or more computers. ``Intel's endorsement of Red Hat meant Linux was OK to use,'' said Robert C. Young, Red Hat's chief executive. But anyone who bought it still took on the liability for buying hardware not supported for Linux. Now IBM is stepping up and taking responsibility for the hardware component.'' Still, analysts caution that the bigger hurdle for Linux is a lack of software that runs on it. ``Applications drive operating system sales,'' said Bill Petersen, research director for IDC Research. ``The fact that Linux is available on hardware gives chief information officers the ability to say, `Great, I can get Linux,' but their next question is, `What can I run on it?' The story only begins to get interesting when more organizations begin to make their applications available for it.'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 18 1: 2:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ns.wan (trltech.demon.co.uk [194.222.7.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 905A91116C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:02:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Received: from trltech.co.uk (rdls.dhcp.sw.wan [192.9.201.75]) by ns.wan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18872 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:02:23 GMT (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Message-ID: <36CBD73C.A9BDBC51@trltech.co.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:02:52 +0000 From: Richard Smith Reply-To: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk Organization: http://www.trltech.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Applixware Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anybody care that the delivery date for the Applixware port has slipped nine months, days before it was due to be shipped? I can understand why Applixware et al., might decide to cancle the project, however I think that it would be better for FreeBSD if it just disappeared, rather than still be shown for pre-order on WC and the Mall with a silly delivery date. It's a shame, as it was part of my Master Plan. I guess I need to look around for another office suite. Is there anything that I can buy that isn't totally incompatable with the M$ domain, and also doesn't advocate L? Richard. "I think you should know, I'm feeing rather depressed at the moment" - Marvin the paranoid android. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 18 1:19:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E4081116C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:19:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id BAA00583; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:19:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Applixware In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:02:52 GMT." <36CBD73C.A9BDBC51@trltech.co.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:19:34 -0800 Message-ID: <579.919329574@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Does anybody care that the delivery date for the Applixware port has > slipped nine months, days before it was due to be shipped? I think 9 months may be a bit overstating the case; I'm not sure who made the update to the timeline on that page or when they did it, but as someone who's been watching the Applixware porting project rather directly, I can say that 9 months is hopefully the very longest it could possibly take, not the time we're actually hoping for. The port was stalled for quite some time on other issues which have since been rectified and I hope to see things moving quite a bit more quickly now. Applixware is quite *keen* to see this selling and interest in the product has been quite high - the number of pre-orders we've gotten has hardly been for nothing, it sent a very clear message to both Applix and WC that this project needed to be a priority and this is a large reason why the blocking factors we were dealing with from the beginning of the applixware port finally got dealt with at all. Don't lose heart yet, by any means. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 18 3: 8: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ns.wan (trltech.demon.co.uk [194.222.7.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC633112CA for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:07:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Received: from trltech.co.uk (rdls.dhcp.sw.wan [192.9.201.75]) by ns.wan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19164; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:06:59 GMT (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Message-ID: <36CBF46E.71EA9668@trltech.co.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:07:26 +0000 From: Richard Smith Reply-To: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk Organization: http://www.trltech.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Applixware References: <579.919329574@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Don't lose heart yet, by any means. Don't you ever sleep? :) Thanks for the reassurances, you have my continued support. Richard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 18 3:43:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from otis.netspace.net.au (oldotis.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C431143C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:43:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from graeme@netspace.net.au) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by otis.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id WAA15442; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:43:49 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-497.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.251.243]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id WAA12669; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:46:09 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902181146.WAA12669@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:42:13 +1100 (EST) From: gcross@netspace.net.au Reply-To: gcross@netspace.net.au Subject: Re: Applixware To: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk Cc: rsmith@trltech.co.uk, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36CBD73C.A9BDBC51@trltech.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; BOUNDARY="0-1804289383-919338146=:1184" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --0-1804289383-919338146=:1184 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 18 Feb, Richard Smith wrote: > Does anybody care that the delivery date for the Applixware port has > slipped nine months, days before it was due to be shipped? > > I can understand why Applixware et al., might decide to cancle the > project, however I think that it would be better for FreeBSD if it just > disappeared, rather than still be shown for pre-order on WC and the Mall > with a silly delivery date. > > It's a shame, as it was part of my Master Plan. I guess I need to look > around for another office suite. Is there anything that I can buy that > isn't totally incompatable with the M$ domain, and also doesn't advocate > L? No, unfortunately. But I can confirm that the Linux ports of WordPerfect 8 and Applixware happily work under Linux emulation on a FreeBSD system, if that is any consolation! Cheers Graeme -- Graeme Cross gcross@netspace.net.au --0-1804289383-919338146=:1184 Content-Type: APPLICATION/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNsv8mclBq9Wvf+qtAQEGHgQAuin5X+LaHWMefzXFU7uUlVZ27KcgZcPy za6iOxeyfnR+lTke7kMuL7XkwO+OaogHh6cxXRwfmPFJhvWY7148fwA4/Uljwuqn Xg/xikYVokiOtakrAKaE8x9zfZlrQjiU9Yb+mrn6kmMBtlh1lEef9nOKHq8SG5rn Q39DAKQF1/E= =vjxi -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --0-1804289383-919338146=:1184-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 18 5:24:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from acheron.middleboro.ma.us (acheron.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.162.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1686B11050 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 05:24:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us) Received: (from mason@localhost) by acheron.middleboro.ma.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15187; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:22:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:22:05 -0500 From: Mason Loring Bliss To: Terry Lambert Cc: Wes Peters , mjna@mail.telepac.pt, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, articles@daemonnews.org Subject: Re: Gartner on Linux and FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990218082205.D11361@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> References: <36CB10C3.21249511@softweyr.com> <199902180243.TAA08114@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199902180243.TAA08114@usr06.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 02:43:03AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 02:43:03AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > Uh, am I missing something? > > "FreeBSD protects your intellectual property; use Linux > instead, because you don't want that for some strange > reason." The entire review / comparison / whatever struck me that way. I'm not sure why this report was generated, but it has an air of having been compulsory. On the bright side, it sorta says good things about BSD, I guess. The "numbers" were obviously in our favour. -- Mason Loring Bliss (( "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind dreams mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us )) build their nest with fragments dropped http://acheron.ne.mediaone.net (( from day's caravan." - Rabindranath Tagore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 18 8:40: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6957B11630 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:40:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id BAA13265; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:39:17 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36CC3C0B.4206F95B@newsguy.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:12:59 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Applixware References: <579.919329574@zippy.cdrom.com> <36CBF46E.71EA9668@trltech.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Richard Smith wrote: > > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Don't lose heart yet, by any means. > > Don't you ever sleep? :) Perl scripts don't sleep. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org Well, as a computer geek, I have to believe in the binary universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 18 10:22:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F32911844 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:21:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA124890992; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:29:52 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:29:52 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Applixware In-Reply-To: <36CC3C0B.4206F95B@newsguy.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > Don't you ever sleep? :) > > Perl scripts don't sleep. :-) for the perl(1) man page: sleep(EXPR) sleep causes the script to sleep for EXPR seconds, or forever if no EXPR. May be interrupted by sending the process a SIGALRM. Returns the number of sec- onds actually slept. So yes, jkh can sleep(). - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 18 15:52:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F2B011BF5 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:52:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13118; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:52:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd012902; Thu Feb 18 16:52:13 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21730; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:51:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902182351.QAA21730@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Applixware To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:51:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <579.919329574@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 18, 99 01:19:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Does anybody care that the delivery date for the Applixware port has > > slipped nine months, days before it was due to be shipped? > > I think 9 months may be a bit overstating the case; I'm not sure who > made the update to the timeline on that page or when they did it, but > as someone who's been watching the Applixware porting project rather > directly, I can say that 9 months is hopefully the very longest it > could possibly take, not the time we're actually hoping for. The port > was stalled for quite some time on other issues which have since been > rectified and I hope to see things moving quite a bit more quickly > now. Applixware is quite *keen* to see this selling and interest in > the product has been quite high - the number of pre-orders we've > gotten has hardly been for nothing, it sent a very clear message to > both Applix and WC that this project needed to be a priority and this > is a large reason why the blocking factors we were dealing with from > the beginning of the applixware port finally got dealt with at all. > Don't lose heart yet, by any means. FWIW, this may not have been an intentional update. Someone added some politically incorrect stuff to the FreeBSD gallery page recently: Microsnot Corp. -- We at Microsnot make a killing off of stealing idea's from small independent software companies, and we love our jobs. But most recently, we decided we are going to take over the world. Hell, I'm already the richest man in the world, and with all our buddies from the government to help us, we shouldn't have any problems what so ever. Oh yeah, I would like also to thank Mr. Clinton for the tax break last year. We use FreeBSD to run all of our important servers, because our latest scam, known publicaly as Winblows 98, crashed on natioinal TV. We tell everyone we have the bugs out, but we still don't take any chances. Thanks FreeBSD, its people like you with good ideas that keep us going, we couldn't do it with out you. - William Gates (founder and CEO) Is that Category questions down their really nessary and what the hell is Non-Profit? [ ... ] WWW.PersianKitty.COM -- Adult Links web site Maybe it's someone hacking you? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 18 15:58: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B481154A for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:57:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA40067; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:57:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Terry Lambert Cc: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Applixware In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:51:36 GMT." <199902182351.QAA21730@usr06.primenet.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:57:46 -0800 Message-ID: <40063.919382266@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Someone added some politically incorrect stuff to the FreeBSD > gallery page recently: It's an automated mechanism; this kind of abuse is one of the downsides to doing it that way but being a human gallery editor is also a thankless job, just ask Nate Johnson! (who's that? My point exactly!). > [ ... ] > > WWW.PersianKitty.COM -- Adult Links web site They're entirely legitimate. One of FreeBSD's more long-standing porn providers! :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 18 19: 8:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B0BC11575 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:07:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-118.thuntek.net [207.66.52.118]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id UAA11987; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:07:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36CCE334.B45CB89B@thuntek.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:06:12 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Applixware References: <40063.919382266@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Someone added some politically incorrect stuff to the FreeBSD > > gallery page recently: > > It's an automated mechanism; this kind of abuse is one of the > downsides to doing it that way but being a human gallery editor is > also a thankless job, just ask Nate Johnson! (who's that? My point > exactly!). > > > [ ... ] > > > > WWW.PersianKitty.COM -- Adult Links web site > > They're entirely legitimate. One of FreeBSD's more long-standing porn > providers! :) > > - Jordan > So, Jordan, THAT's why all the XXX SPAM keeps getting onto -advocacy!!! -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde dwilde1@thuntek.net [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 0:11: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 797B3116AE for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:11:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10Dl1T-0004FT-00 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:10:58 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA01585 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:10:25 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02176; Fri, 19 Feb 99 08:10:24 GMT Message-Id: <36CD1C6E.D2192003@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:10:22 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Registering Corel WP8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The other day I registered my copy of Corel WP8 for Linux on Corel's website. The questionnaire to fill in gives you no way of telling them that you are using WP8 under FreeBSD. The "where did you get WP8" question has options for a number of ftp sites or most of the Linux distributions. It then goes on to ask things like; "How long have you been using Linux", "Do you use Linux at home and/or work". I was hoping to find a free text comments field where I could state that I use FreeBSD not Linux, but alas there is not one. There also didn't appear to be a specific Feedback link either. I think we (FreeBSD users) should let Corel know we are using WP8, but how? With a large organization like Corel it is important to target e-mails, just e-mailing support@corel.com will probably have no effect. Does anyone have any contacts at Corel and/or know an e-mail address that we could send comments to where they might actually do some good?. OK, maybe Corel don't give a toss if you're not running Linux, but I think we should at least attempt to inform them that there are plenty of people using WP8 under FreeBSD. -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 2:20:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CD0910E7B for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 02:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id TAA24234; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:18:53 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36CD3A56.514C5C59@newsguy.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:17:58 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Applixware References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > > > Don't you ever sleep? :) > > > > Perl scripts don't sleep. :-) > > for the perl(1) man page: > > sleep(EXPR) > > sleep causes the script to sleep for EXPR seconds, or > forever if no EXPR. May be interrupted by sending > the process a SIGALRM. Returns the number of sec- > onds actually slept. > > So yes, jkh can sleep(). I stand corrected. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org Well, as a computer geek, I have to believe in the binary universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 3: 9:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 865A81167F for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:09:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from jackv (adsl-209-76-108-106.dsl.pacbell.net [209.76.108.106]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id DAA11432; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:09:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001a01be5bf8$208d49e0$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" To: "Mark Ovens" , Subject: Re: Registering Corel WP8 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 06:08:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG you might try these links: i think the ceo's email is cowpland@corel.com (Dr. Michael Cowpland) product feedback: https://livewire.corel.com/cfscripts/Feedback_forms/feedback.htm John Hladkowicz Director, Investor Relations Phone: 1-613-728-0826, ext. 1194 Fax: 1-613-761-9350 E-Mail: johnh@corel.com Corel Media Relations Department The Corel Media Relations team can be contacted via e-mail to our central mailbox or by telephone at 613-728-0826 x1801 (alternate contact: Mark Lipson – 613-728-0826 x1361; markl@corel.ca). Messages will be reviewed daily. Public Enquiries Enquiries from the general public can be directed to one of the following: Product Information, Customer Service Requests and Comments Please e-mail customer service at custserv2@corel.ca. Corel Web Site If you have suggestions, comments or problems to report regarding the Corel Web site, please send an e-mail to our Web master at webmaster@corel.ca -----Original Message----- From: Mark Ovens >The other day I registered my copy of Corel WP8 for Linux on Corel's >website. The questionnaire to fill in gives you no way of telling them >that you are using WP8 under FreeBSD. > >The "where did you get WP8" question has options for a number of ftp >sites or most of the Linux distributions. It then goes on to ask >things like; "How long have you been using Linux", "Do you use Linux >at home and/or work". > >I was hoping to find a free text comments field where I could state >that I use FreeBSD not Linux, but alas there is not one. There also >didn't appear to be a specific Feedback link either. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 3:47:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED511141D for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:47:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10DoOZ-0003nw-00; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:47:02 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA02574; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:46:22 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05806; Fri, 19 Feb 99 11:46:21 GMT Message-Id: <36CD4F0B.BBA7451C@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:46:19 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Jack Velte Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Registering Corel WP8 References: <001a01be5bf8$208d49e0$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jack Velte wrote: > > you might try these links: > Thanks for this info Jack, I'll take a look at them tonight and re-post if I find anything useful. I think everyone using WP8 on FreeBSD should let Corel know. It may not get us native FreeBSD versions but at least it will show them that it's not only Linux users who appreciate their support of Free OS's. > i think the ceo's email is cowpland@corel.com (Dr. Michael Cowpland) > > product feedback: > https://livewire.corel.com/cfscripts/Feedback_forms/feedback.htm > > John Hladkowicz > Director, Investor Relations > Phone: 1-613-728-0826, ext. 1194 > Fax: 1-613-761-9350 > E-Mail: johnh@corel.com > > Corel Media Relations Department > > The Corel Media Relations team can be contacted via e-mail to our central > mailbox or by telephone at 613-728-0826 x1801 (alternate contact: Mark > Lipson 613-728-0826 x1361; markl@corel.ca). Messages will be reviewed > daily. > > Public Enquiries > Enquiries from the general public can be directed to one of the following: > Product Information, Customer Service Requests and Comments > Please e-mail customer service at custserv2@corel.ca. > > Corel Web Site > If you have suggestions, comments or problems to report regarding the Corel > Web site, please send an e-mail to our Web master at webmaster@corel.ca > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Ovens > > >The other day I registered my copy of Corel WP8 for Linux on Corel's > >website. The questionnaire to fill in gives you no way of telling them > >that you are using WP8 under FreeBSD. > > > >The "where did you get WP8" question has options for a number of ftp > >sites or most of the Linux distributions. It then goes on to ask > >things like; "How long have you been using Linux", "Do you use Linux > >at home and/or work". > > > >I was hoping to find a free text comments field where I could state > >that I use FreeBSD not Linux, but alas there is not one. There also > >didn't appear to be a specific Feedback link either. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 13:50:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED48111403 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:50:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-116.thuntek.net [207.66.52.116]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id OAA03770; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:50:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36CDEA65.4EB0232F@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:49:09 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, fuunm@swcp.com Subject: cooperating on the kids Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, folks - I'm in the middle of what I hope will become a big effort, but a worthwhile one. I've opened negotiations with the Rio Rancho Public Library and the local High Schools for the beginning of free classes for kids that will be built on my donation of time and expertise in computers and free software. They are very receptive to the idea, and I would like to open it up to those with similar ideas so we can share classroom materials, lesson plans and crying shoulders. I'm also beginning the effort to create a 501c3 called the "Open ReSource Project" as an umbrella for corporate and individual donations. I've also got 3 CD sets and a "Complete FreeBSD" for donation (yes, Greg, I finally found a home for _your_ gift to me :-D ). The class will take the students underneath the hood and teach them first the CS basics like "representation" and "algorithm" and "process", and intersperse it with practical demonstrations of web design, embedded control systems, and network programming. Since I use FreeBSD, that will be the centerpiece of my instructional material, but I intend to show them the open door to all public domain software and teach them enough of the underlying basics about computers that they will be able to understand and learn much more than what the schools are now teaching them, which is pretty poor stuff. When I'm done with them, not only will they understand a lot more, they'll be able to make educated decisions before they walk out and buy any more Windoze programs. Also in my mind is compiling all of the material into a publishable format so the program can be replicated as it firms up into something valuable. Anybody else ready to step out (or already ahead of me)? -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde dwilde1@thuntek.net [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 19:34:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4178711412 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:34:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA01753; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:34:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:34:21 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Chris Coleman Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gateway Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I emailed three computer companies: Gateway, Dell and Micron, asking for a quote for a developer machine. I described essentially a high-end PC workstation-class machine, and on the list of requirements was FreeBSD. I heard back from none of the companies. One of them, I know that the email was read because I received a CC of an email asking someone to address my needs, not that they were ever addressed. I must admit, I was hoping for at least a *rejection*... As I'm looking to buy a machine or two in about 5 months, I figured I'd start asking around now to drum up support, but things don't look great. If someone digs up contacts for these kinds of things, I'd be glad to call them in my effort to find some workstations. On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Chris Coleman wrote: > I just spoke with my contacts at gateway. We are one of their major > accounts, so they do take some notice of us. I asked them about shipping > computers with FreeBSD installed, instead of WinNT. My contact is going > to look up the person in the engineering department that I would need to > send "Evaluation Copies" of FreeBSD to. > > (Jordan, I might need some FreeBSD CD's soon :-) > > She said that she hasn't had any demand for alternative OS's and didn't > see it on their immediate software road map. > > Well, it looks like it is time to generate some demand, or at least some > notice. > > You might suggest to your contacts at Gateway, (if you don't have any, > make some) that it would be really great if they would ship their web > servers with FreeBSD. > > Or, suggest that you would like to see "FreeBSD Certified" on their web > pages. > > Since Dell is offering Linux, its probably a good time to focus on Gateway > to get them to offer FreeBSD. > > -Chris > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 19:41:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0074E11542 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:41:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA01775; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:41:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:41:24 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Applixware In-Reply-To: <579.919329574@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Does anybody care that the delivery date for the Applixware port has > > slipped nine months, days before it was due to be shipped? > > I think 9 months may be a bit overstating the case; I'm not sure who > made the update to the timeline on that page or when they did it, but > as someone who's been watching the Applixware porting project rather > directly, I can say that 9 months is hopefully the very longest it > could possibly take, not the time we're actually hoping for. The port > was stalled for quite some time on other issues which have since been > rectified and I hope to see things moving quite a bit more quickly > now. Applixware is quite *keen* to see this selling and interest in > the product has been quite high - the number of pre-orders we've > gotten has hardly been for nothing, it sent a very clear message to > both Applix and WC that this project needed to be a priority and this > is a large reason why the blocking factors we were dealing with from > the beginning of the applixware port finally got dealt with at all. > Don't lose heart yet, by any means. That's pretty sad--I was hoping to write my next few papers in Applixware instead of latex. As fun as latex is, there are times when I don't want to have to dig through lots of web pages or books to find out how to do something that should be easy :-). Any hope of a public alpha or beta, or a pre-release or something to keep us on the edges of our seats? What I'd really like to see is a piece of presentation software like (or better than) Power Point. Even the UNIX folk around here do live notebook presentations under Windows to get power point slides--doing presentations under FreeBSD with some spiffy piece of software would gain followers instantly. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 19:57:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [208.221.12.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D34310E7A for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:57:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09901; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:54:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902200354.TAA09901@implode.root.com> To: Robert Watson Cc: Chris Coleman , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gateway Computers In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:34:21 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:54:13 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I emailed three computer companies: Gateway, Dell and Micron, asking for a >quote for a developer machine. I described essentially a high-end PC >workstation-class machine, and on the list of requirements was FreeBSD. I >heard back from none of the companies. One of them, I know that the email >was read because I received a CC of an email asking someone to address my >needs, not that they were ever addressed. > >I must admit, I was hoping for at least a *rejection*... As I'm looking >to buy a machine or two in about 5 months, I figured I'd start asking >around now to drum up support, but things don't look great. > >If someone digs up contacts for these kinds of things, I'd be glad to call >them in my effort to find some workstations. I've been working with Drew Meyer at Micron, 800 964 2766, extension 31329. He knows me by name, so you may wish to mention it. He knows about FreeBSD (from me), but doesn't know enough to be able to tell you whether a particular piece of hardware will work with it. Background: Micron has escentially given WC CDROM a NetFRAME 9201, which is their highest-end enterprise server, for the next generation wcarchive. It arrived yesterday and is sitting in my garage until I can find time to get it configured and shipped out to San Francisco. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 20: 5:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91D73115C0 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:05:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-021.thuntek.net [207.66.52.21]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id VAA03415; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:05:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36CE4264.1A9F594C@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:04:36 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Applixware References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson wrote: > [snip] > What I'd really like to see is a piece of presentation software like (or > better than) Power Point. Even the UNIX folk around here do live notebook > presentations under Windows to get power point slides--doing presentations > under FreeBSD with some spiffy piece of software would gain followers > instantly. > MagicPoint (in the Ports, of course!) really does work, Robert. I've done some blowout work with it, and you can insert canned Mesa 3D stuff as slides. Forget Powerpoint; it may be _easier_, but nowhere near as powerful, and that's what counts!!! -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde dwilde1@thuntek.net [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 20:12:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0AB211542 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:12:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-021.thuntek.net [207.66.52.21]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id VAA04392; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:11:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36CE43F1.96EF0A41@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:11:13 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gateway Computers References: <199902200354.TAA09901@implode.root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman wrote: > > Background: Micron has escentially given WC CDROM a NetFRAME 9201, which > is their highest-end enterprise server, for the next generation wcarchive. > It arrived yesterday and is sitting in my garage until I can find time to > get it configured and shipped out to San Francisco. > > -DG > My experience has been that all these machines are drop-ins for FreeBSD except for their (optional) RAID controllers and secondary processors. My problem has been that Micron has reliability problems, too many infant mortality failures in my experience. Yes, they fix them, but it leaves a bad taste in the mouth to have several replacements to fix one problem (PS, motherboard, whole machine, in one case!). Nobody's said, "it's your OS" yet, but I was expecting it... :-( -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde dwilde1@thuntek.net [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 20:57:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA92E11566 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:57:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA10736; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:57:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:57:24 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Robert Watson Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Applixware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Robert wrote: > That's pretty sad--I was hoping to write my next few papers in > Applixware instead of latex. As fun as latex is, there are times when > I don't want to have to dig through lots of web pages or books to find > out how to do something that should be easy :-). It makes me feel weird that I think LaTeX is easier than using a word processor. I even have Word Perfect (Linux version) running on the home machine. I started it up once... :-) > What I'd really like to see is a piece of presentation software like > (or better than) Power Point. Even the UNIX folk around here do live > notebook presentations under Windows to get power point slides--doing > presentations under FreeBSD with some spiffy piece of software would > gain followers instantly. I have no idea how this compares to PowerPoint but there's a Linux based program called Magic Point. It definitely runs under FreeBSD - I've played their demo. I was going to make a port of this but writing my thesis keeps getting in the way! By April maybe I'll be back to actually messing around on the computer... Here's the web page for Magic Point: http://www.Mew.org/mgp/ Brett ****************************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ "Bart, a woman is like a beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd step over your own mother just to get one!" Homer Simpson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 21:17: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from norn.ca.eu.org (cr965240-a.abtsfd1.bc.wave.home.com [24.113.18.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8DD810E92 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:16:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from norn@norn.ca.eu.org) Received: (from norn@localhost) by norn.ca.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA24037; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:16:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from norn) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:16:48 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: Chris Piazza From: Chris Piazza To: Brett Taylor Subject: Re: Applixware Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Robert Watson Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20-Feb-99 Brett Taylor wrote: > Hi, > >> What I'd really like to see is a piece of presentation software like >> (or better than) Power Point. Even the UNIX folk around here do live >> notebook presentations under Windows to get power point slides--doing >> presentations under FreeBSD with some spiffy piece of software would >> gain followers instantly. > > I have no idea how this compares to PowerPoint but there's a Linux based > program called Magic Point. It definitely runs under FreeBSD - I've > played their demo. I was going to make a port of this but writing my > thesis keeps getting in the way! By April maybe I'll be back to actually > messing around on the computer... > > Here's the web page for Magic Point: > > http://www.Mew.org/mgp/ > Hmm, slick software :). Should be quite an easy port though, it compiles cleanly without any mucking. -- Chris Piazza Abbotsford, BC, Canada cpiazza@home.net finger norn@norn.ca.eu.org for PGP key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 21:19: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9BA114C6 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:19:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21856; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:18:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:18:55 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Chris Piazza Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Robert Watson Subject: Magic Point (was Re: Applixware) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Chris Piazza wrote: > Hmm, slick software :). Should be quite an easy port though, it > compiles cleanly without any mucking. As Don Wilde notes, it is already in the ports. Somedays... :-) /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint or /usr/ports/japanese/magicpoint (if you want the Japanese version) Brett ****************************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ "Bart, a woman is like a beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd step over your own mother just to get one!" Homer Simpson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 21:21:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from norn.ca.eu.org (cr965240-a.abtsfd1.bc.wave.home.com [24.113.18.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A9B1161A for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:21:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from norn@norn.ca.eu.org) Received: (from norn@localhost) by norn.ca.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA24081; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:21:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from norn) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:21:03 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: Chris Piazza From: Chris Piazza To: Brett Taylor Subject: RE: Magic Point (was Re: Applixware) Cc: Robert Watson , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20-Feb-99 Brett Taylor wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Chris Piazza wrote: > >> Hmm, slick software :). Should be quite an easy port though, it >> compiles cleanly without any mucking. > > As Don Wilde notes, it is already in the ports. Somedays... > >:-) > > /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint > or > /usr/ports/japanese/magicpoint (if you want the Japanese version) > oh how I agree =] heh heh.. -- Chris Piazza Abbotsford, BC, Canada cpiazza@home.net finger norn@norn.ca.eu.org for PGP key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 19 22:57:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0740511208 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:57:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA01223 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:27:16 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id RAA19421 for FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:27:13 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990220172712.N93492@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:27:12 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This went round the NetBSD advocacy list earlier today, where it was greeted with something between apathy and disagreement. What do you people think? Greg ----- Forwarded message from David Welton ----- > Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:17:09 -0600 > To: netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG > Reply-To: davidw@debian.org > X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 > Precedence: list > Delivered-To: netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG > Hello, > > Some people have brought up the idea on the Debian (Debian is a Linux > distribution, see www.debian.org for details) lists of extending our > 'distribution' to different kernels. For instance, there is a group > working to make a Debian GNU/HURD distribution. > > Someone brought up the idea of using most of the current Debian > userland tools on top of a BSD kernel, which of course sparked > discussions about which one might be most appropriate (at this point, > I should note that no one has actually *done* anything about this, and > I sort of doubt it will ever be more than speculation). > > What I was curious about was what sort of reaction this might engender > in the NetBSD community, should something similiar come to pass. And > no, I'm not trying to troll - I'm truly curious whether we might be > the brunt of a lot of the more vitriolic anti-linux flames that one > sees (and yes, of course, it goes both ways, but I am not interested > in flamewars), whether we might actually get help, or if people would > generally behave neutrally. I (we) know that the BSD community in > general prefers that license, and of course, whatever BSD kernel and > software they use, so this isn't the question at hand, but rather, how > might we be looked upon for 'taking' this work and using it in our own > way? > > I hope this list is the best forum, but since the question at hand seems > more hypothetical and 'political', than technical, in nature, it > seemed appropriate. > > Thanks for your time, > -- > David N. Welton | Fortune rota volvitur - descendo minoratus > davidw@prosa.it | alter in altum tollitur - nimis exaltatus > http://www.efn.org/~davidw | rex sedet in vertice - caveat ruinam! > www.debian.org - www.prosa.it | nam sub axe legimus - Hecubam reginam > > PS - please CC replies to me ----- End forwarded message ----- -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 0:27:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smarter.than.nu (lal-99-91.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.99.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C3A1115F2 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:27:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smarter.than.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA00949; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:27:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:27:16 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" X-Sender: brian@smarter.than.nu To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' In-Reply-To: <19990220172712.N93492@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > This went round the NetBSD advocacy list earlier today, where it was > greeted with something between apathy and disagreement. What do you > people think? As I understand things from friends who are Debian users or ex-Debian users who I managed to coax over to FreeBSD, the Debian mantainers are asses about what goes into the distribution. Specifically, anything with a license that doesn't meet their definition of "free" gets the axe. I don't see why we should get involved with Debian, as they seem to be based mostly on a philosophy of furthering RMS's ajenda. -- Brian Buchanan brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU -------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org daemon(n): 1. an attendant power or spirit : GENIUS 2. the cute little mascot of the FreeBSD operating system To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 0:31:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC1610E63 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:31:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA45987; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:31:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Don Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, fuunm@swcp.com Subject: Re: cooperating on the kids In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:49:09 PST." <36CDEA65.4EB0232F@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:31:21 -0800 Message-ID: <45984.919499481@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm in the middle of what I hope will become a big effort, but a > worthwhile one. I've opened negotiations with the Rio Rancho Public > Library and the local High Schools for the beginning of free classes for > kids that will be built on my donation of time and expertise in > computers and free software. They are very receptive to the idea, and I > would like to open it up to those with similar ideas so we can share > classroom materials, lesson plans and crying shoulders. I'm also This sounds like a good effort - best of luck with it! I'd also perhaps focus a little bit on Internet based know-how since that's what's hot these days and will probably strike the most receptive chord in your kiddies. Teach them how to set up and configure Apache and who knows, some of them might even get jobs at some local ISPs shortly thereafter given the state of that particular job market. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 0:40:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8483B10E63 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:40:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA46015; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:40:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:27:12 +1030." <19990220172712.N93492@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:40:01 -0800 Message-ID: <46011.919500001@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This went round the NetBSD advocacy list earlier today, where it was > greeted with something between apathy and disagreement. What do you > people think? If we get to choose, I'll take apathy. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 6:32:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E4611468 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 06:32:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-069.thuntek.net [207.66.52.69]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA13918; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:32:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36CED34F.51C90BCD@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:22:55 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, fuunm@swcp.com Subject: Re: cooperating on the kids References: <45984.919499481@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > I'm in the middle of what I hope will become a big effort, but a > > worthwhile one. I've opened negotiations with the Rio Rancho Public > > Library and the local High Schools for the beginning of free classes for > > kids that will be built on my donation of time and expertise in > > computers and free software. They are very receptive to the idea, and I > > would like to open it up to those with similar ideas so we can share > > classroom materials, lesson plans and crying shoulders. I'm also > > This sounds like a good effort - best of luck with it! I'd also > perhaps focus a little bit on Internet based know-how since that's > what's hot these days and will probably strike the most receptive > chord in your kiddies. Teach them how to set up and configure Apache > and who knows, some of them might even get jobs at some local ISPs > shortly thereafter given the state of that particular job market. :-) > > - Jordan Actually, Jordan, I'm not even going to be that ambitious to start with. Set up and configure Apache??? You gotta be joking. Add some HTML, maybe, but New Mexico kids have been destroyed by some of the crappier schools in the nation. I do intend to show them how the 'net works by demonstration, and show them some fancy tricks, but mostly I want to get them to understand some really foundational concepts like the difference betwen what something 'is' and what it 'stands for'. These are the things that hve ben sadly neglected in the rush to turn out good little Microsoft Word(tm)processors and 'net surfers. I also am planning to make contact with the local PBS station to see about taping this series professionally, kind of on the order of the lectures the PBS shows have on during their pledge breaks. FreeBSD will be prominently displayed, and it will be very clear that this is all free software and what a treasure it is, but I can't see getting down and dirty with the source code or Apache config, or EMACS, etc. I will see if I can get them to understand what a multitasking operating system is, both by demo and diagram, but I would be foolish to lose them when I have a chance to plant some truly useful seeds in their heads. -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde dwilde1@thuntek.net [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 8:37:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B2CC11371 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:37:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA01135; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:36:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:36:01 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Don Wilde Cc: dg@root.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gateway Computers In-Reply-To: <36CE43F1.96EF0A41@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Don Wilde wrote: > David Greenman wrote: > > > > Background: Micron has escentially given WC CDROM a NetFRAME 9201, which > > is their highest-end enterprise server, for the next generation wcarchive. > > It arrived yesterday and is sitting in my garage until I can find time to > > get it configured and shipped out to San Francisco. > > My experience has been that all these machines are drop-ins for FreeBSD > except for their (optional) RAID controllers and secondary processors. > My problem has been that Micron has reliability problems, too many > infant mortality failures in my experience. Yes, they fix them, but it > leaves a bad taste in the mouth to have several replacements to fix one > problem (PS, motherboard, whole machine, in one case!). Nobody's said, > "it's your OS" yet, but I was expecting it... :-( I was curious about the RAID controllers myself--I know we do DPT quite well, but getting a bundled server package is always nice. Do we support their basic Symbios (or whomever) SCSI controller? By secondary processors, do you mean that 3.0+ of FreeBSD just doesn't like their SMP support, or was that a 2.2 concern? Any chance that if cdrom.com is using them, we'll see better driver support for Micron server machines? :-) Having a hardware vendor specifically supported, especially a large one, would be great. And who knows, with Dell jumping on the Linux bandwagon, maybe Micron would jump on ours (or at least be willing to indicate that WC provides support for FreeBSD OS stuff on their platform) Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 11:30:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE32F118C2 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:27:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14786; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:27:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd014679; Sat Feb 20 12:27:33 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09734; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:27:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902201927.MAA09734@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Gateway Computers To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:27:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org, chris@bbcc.ctc.edu, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902200354.TAA09901@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Feb 19, 99 07:54:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Background: Micron has escentially given WC CDROM a NetFRAME 9201, which > is their highest-end enterprise server, for the next generation wcarchive. > It arrived yesterday and is sitting in my garage until I can find time to > get it configured and shipped out to San Francisco. I'm jealous. Compared to you, my garage sucks. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 11:38:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EBE51193A for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:36:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18757; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:36:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd018717; Sat Feb 20 12:36:50 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10053; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:35:27 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902201935.MAA10053@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Applixware To: dwilde1@thuntek.net (Don Wilde) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:35:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36CE4264.1A9F594C@thuntek.net> from "Don Wilde" at Feb 19, 99 09:04:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > What I'd really like to see is a piece of presentation software like (or > > better than) Power Point. Even the UNIX folk around here do live notebook > > presentations under Windows to get power point slides--doing presentations > > under FreeBSD with some spiffy piece of software would gain followers > > instantly. > > MagicPoint (in the Ports, of course!) really does work, Robert. I've > done some blowout work with it, and you can insert canned Mesa 3D stuff > as slides. Forget Powerpoint; it may be _easier_, but nowhere near as > powerful, and that's what counts!!! KPresenter is like PowerPoint; features are at: http://koffice.kde.org/kpresenter/implemented.html Screen shots are at: http://koffice.kde.org/kpresenter/screenshots.html Home page is at: http://koffice.kde.org/kpresenter/index.html Koffice is at: http://koffice.kde.org/ KDE is at: http://www.kde.org/ Oh, yeah: it supports full CORBA embedding of all other KDE components. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 12: 4:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91A08119BB for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:04:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25419; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd025363; Sat Feb 20 13:20:59 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA10980; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:04:04 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902202004.NAA10980@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:03:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990220172712.N93492@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Feb 20, 99 05:27:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ ... a "Debian BSD" distribution ... ] > This went round the NetBSD advocacy list earlier today, where it was > greeted with something between apathy and disagreement. What do you > people think? > > Greg FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD... It's free software. They can do anything they want with it, except change the license or claim they invented it while talking about features that came from someone else's sweat and blood. That's why the license is the way it is, and that's why the Internet's running TCP/IP instead of SPX/IPX. If they want to do it, I say let them. I'm betting they just grab a kernel, and the hardware support was why they approached NetBSD. I've Bcc'ed the Debian guy. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 12:35:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from master.debian.org (master.debian.org [209.176.56.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E8521197D for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:34:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from davidw@master.debian.org) Received: (qmail 19574 invoked by uid 1047); 20 Feb 1999 20:34:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19990220143410.B16910@debian.org> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:34:10 -0600 From: David Welton To: Terry Lambert , Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' References: <19990220172712.N93492@lemis.com> <199902202004.NAA10980@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: <199902202004.NAA10980@usr04.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 08:03:55PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 08:03:55PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > [ ... a "Debian BSD" distribution ... ] Woah, there. Before this gets out of hand, please note where I said that this is purely speculation and conjecture, and that so far, no one has actually done any real work, and I highly doubt they will. Please note that I'm not speaking for anyone but myself, either. > > This went round the NetBSD advocacy list earlier today, where it > > was greeted with something between apathy and disagreement. What > > do you people think? Basically, what I wanted to know was not particularly whether it was a good or bad idea (I'm not particularly interested in it myself), but what sort of reaction peole might have - if they would see us as 'hijacking' their work. One of the advantages to the BSD's is that individually, they are "complete" distributions, and maybe someone would take offense at us creating another 'distribution', ala Linux. > It's free software. They can do anything they want with it, except > change the license or claim they invented it while talking about > features that came from someone else's sweat and blood. The distribution would hypothetically be named Debian GNU/FreeBSD or something like that, and we would obviously give back anything good we happened to create. > If they want to do it, I say let them. I'm betting they just grab a > kernel, and the hardware support was why they approached NetBSD. This "let them" is kind of what I was curious about - we wouldn't really want to do anything like this without at least a neutral reaction from whichever group's work we used. It would be a waste of our time if we were openly in conflict with the group.. As far as bets, mine would be on nothing happening at all, as I'm not sure there are enough people interested in actually *doing* something (I'm not one of them, I have plenty of other projects to work on:-). As far as why NetBSD - that was my initiative. Of course, people interested in doing this would have to battle it out amongst themselves over which BSD to use. Also, please note that I am not interested in what is better, as far as linux or bsd or debian or whatever - I don't wish to go down that road, only judge what the reaction might be... So, no flames, please. Thankyou, -- David N. Welton | Fortune rota volvitur - descendo minoratus davidw@prosa.it | alter in altum tollitur - nimis exaltatus http://www.efn.org/~davidw | rex sedet in vertice - caveat ruinam! www.debian.org - www.prosa.it | nam sub axe legimus - Hecubam reginam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 13:20:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE4E118BE for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:20:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13356; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:37:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd013230; Sat Feb 20 14:36:52 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA17160; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:19:40 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902202119.OAA17160@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' To: davidw@master.debian.org (David Welton) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:19:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990220143410.B16910@debian.org> from "David Welton" at Feb 20, 99 02:34:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It's free software. They can do anything they want with it, except > > change the license or claim they invented it while talking about > > features that came from someone else's sweat and blood. > > The distribution would hypothetically be named Debian GNU/FreeBSD or > something like that, and we would obviously give back anything good we > happened to create. Call it "Yewnicks", if you want. > > If they want to do it, I say let them. I'm betting they just grab a > > kernel, and the hardware support was why they approached NetBSD. > > This "let them" is kind of what I was curious about - we wouldn't > really want to do anything like this without at least a neutral > reaction from whichever group's work we used. It would be a waste of > our time if we were openly in conflict with the group.. Don't take "let them" as an antonym for "prevent them". The license prevents us from preventing you. That's on purpose. The BSD license is about "raising the bar", without playing "keep away". If you get flack for rebadging the code, then you are getting flack from people who just don't "get it". Let us know, so that we may educate them. If Microsoft wanted to take all of FreeBSD and rebadge it as a Microsoft product, we would be *very happy* (or most of us would, anyway). If Oracle wanted to take all of FreeBSD and NetBSD and rebadge it as NC/Server and NC/Client, we'd also be *very happy* (they already did this). The point is to make *good technology* that people *use*, and not really give a damn about what people do with it afterwards. It doesn't matter what they do afterwards; what matters is how high are the lowest shoulder we, or someone else, can stand on tomorrow. A friend of mine and I were talking about the Internet the other day, and the death of Jon Postel. We were mostly concerned that his death might have been a bell tolling for the end of an era. What we concluded is that he and the others involved built one hell of a two lane road for the future, and that they graded the ground for another two lanes, and piled most of the paving materials (IPV6, SVRLOC, DHC, etc.) on the side. BSD is a paving material. If I decide at some point in the future that I want to "do a startup", you can be guaranteed that it will be to my distinct advantage to build it next to the road. Maybe it'll even be a part of the road that I helped pave. If I don't, and someone else takes the work and build something, well, I still benefit from there having been roads. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 13:39:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bbcc.ctc.edu (bbcc.ctc.edu [134.39.180.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B076D118EC for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:39:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@bbcc.ctc.edu) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bbcc.ctc.edu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA16565; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:33:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:33:03 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: Robert Watson Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gateway Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have been working with Fritz Fitzgibbons of Gateway, he as gotten the ball rolling a little. 1.877.803.1947 Try giving him a call. Tell him I sent you. He is the Washington State Account Executive. -Chris Coleman On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Robert Watson wrote: > > I emailed three computer companies: Gateway, Dell and Micron, asking for a > quote for a developer machine. I described essentially a high-end PC > workstation-class machine, and on the list of requirements was FreeBSD. I > heard back from none of the companies. One of them, I know that the email > was read because I received a CC of an email asking someone to address my > needs, not that they were ever addressed. > > I must admit, I was hoping for at least a *rejection*... As I'm looking > to buy a machine or two in about 5 months, I figured I'd start asking > around now to drum up support, but things don't look great. > > If someone digs up contacts for these kinds of things, I'd be glad to call > them in my effort to find some workstations. > > On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Chris Coleman wrote: > > > I just spoke with my contacts at gateway. We are one of their major > > accounts, so they do take some notice of us. I asked them about shipping > > computers with FreeBSD installed, instead of WinNT. My contact is going > > to look up the person in the engineering department that I would need to > > send "Evaluation Copies" of FreeBSD to. > > > > (Jordan, I might need some FreeBSD CD's soon :-) > > > > She said that she hasn't had any demand for alternative OS's and didn't > > see it on their immediate software road map. > > > > Well, it looks like it is time to generate some demand, or at least some > > notice. > > > > You might suggest to your contacts at Gateway, (if you don't have any, > > make some) that it would be really great if they would ship their web > > servers with FreeBSD. > > > > Or, suggest that you would like to see "FreeBSD Certified" on their web > > pages. > > > > Since Dell is offering Linux, its probably a good time to focus on Gateway > > to get them to offer FreeBSD. > > > > -Chris > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > > > Robert N Watson > > robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ > PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C > > Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ > TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ > SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 13:59:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from acheron.middleboro.ma.us (acheron.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.162.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6ED2118EC for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:59:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us) Received: (from mason@localhost) by acheron.middleboro.ma.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07143; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:59:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:59:09 -0500 From: Mason Loring Bliss To: David Welton Cc: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' Message-ID: <19990220165909.G11361@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> References: <19990220172712.N93492@lemis.com> <199902202004.NAA10980@usr04.primenet.com> <19990220143410.B16910@debian.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990220143410.B16910@debian.org>; from David Welton on Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 02:34:10PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 02:34:10PM -0600, David Welton wrote: > Basically, what I wanted to know was not particularly whether it was a > good or bad idea (I'm not particularly interested in it myself), but > what sort of reaction peole might have - if they would see us as > 'hijacking' their work. I'm a fan of the GPL in some senses, as I believe that in today's greed- ridden world, the guarantee that distributed improvements to code be them- selves distributed is good. The BSD license doesn't guarantee this - it allows for code to become proprietary. This is a desired goal amongst most folks who want to use the BSD license, and I can't imagine them having a problem with whatever is done with the code, short of changing the license or copyright. > The distribution would hypothetically be named Debian GNU/FreeBSD or > something like that, and we would obviously give back anything good we > happened to create. But, then, the license wouldn't require that you do that. -- Mason Loring Bliss (( "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind dreams mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us )) build their nest with fragments dropped http://acheron.ne.mediaone.net (( from day's caravan." - Rabindranath Tagore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 15:18:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A7E10E59 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:18:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-090.thuntek.net [207.66.52.90]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id QAA25230; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:18:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36CF50C1.F463B360@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:18:09 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gateway Computers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson wrote: > > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Don Wilde wrote: > > > David Greenman wrote: > > > > > > Background: Micron has escentially given WC CDROM a NetFRAME 9201, which > > > is their highest-end enterprise server, for the next generation wcarchive. > > > It arrived yesterday and is sitting in my garage until I can find time to > > > get it configured and shipped out to San Francisco. > > > > My experience has been that all these machines are drop-ins for FreeBSD > > except for their (optional) RAID controllers and secondary processors. > > My problem has been that Micron has reliability problems, too many > > infant mortality failures in my experience. Yes, they fix them, but it > > leaves a bad taste in the mouth to have several replacements to fix one > > problem (PS, motherboard, whole machine, in one case!). Nobody's said, > > "it's your OS" yet, but I was expecting it... :-( > > I was curious about the RAID controllers myself--I know we do DPT quite > well, but getting a bundled server package is always nice. Do we support > their basic Symbios (or whomever) SCSI controller? > > By secondary processors, do you mean that 3.0+ of FreeBSD just doesn't > like their SMP support, or was that a 2.2 concern? > I have never played with 3.x multiprocessors, I was referring to 2.2.x. The SCSI, es, that was on The List. > Any chance that if cdrom.com is using them, we'll see better driver > support for Micron server machines? :-) Having a hardware vendor > specifically supported, especially a large one, would be great. And who > knows, with Dell jumping on the Linux bandwagon, maybe Micron would jump > on ours (or at least be willing to indicate that WC provides support for > FreeBSD OS stuff on their platform) I still think we should try for Dell. Much better reliability stats in my experience. > > Robert N Watson > > robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ > PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C > > Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ > TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ > SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde dwilde1@thuntek.net [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 15:19:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A180A11A17 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:18:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20975; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:18:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36CF42BB.D21920A2@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:18:19 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Welton Cc: Terry Lambert , Greg Lehey , FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' References: <19990220172712.N93492@lemis.com> <199902202004.NAA10980@usr04.primenet.com> <19990220143410.B16910@debian.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Welton wrote: > > > [ ... a "Debian BSD" distribution ... ] > > Basically, what I wanted to know was not particularly whether it was a > good or bad idea (I'm not particularly interested in it myself), but > what sort of reaction peole might have - if they would see us as > 'hijacking' their work. One of the advantages to the BSD's is that > individually, they are "complete" distributions, and maybe someone > would take offense at us creating another 'distribution', ala Linux. There is a difference between being offended by it and just considering it incredibly stupid. I think you'll find most here fall into the latter camp. As you point out, the BSDs are a complete set. I fail to see any value added by sticking a GNUish userland on top of a BSD kernel. If others do see value in that, let them have at it. Personally, I think it would be rather like painting a Jaguar with a brush. ;^) > > It's free software. They can do anything they want with it, except > > change the license or claim they invented it while talking about > > features that came from someone else's sweat and blood. Well, no, they *are* allowed to change the license. They're still required to give credit, though. > The distribution would hypothetically be named Debian GNU/FreeBSD or > something like that, and we would obviously give back anything good we > happened to create. But would it be infected with the GPL virus? I doubt anyone here in BSD-land would be at all interested, if it were to be. > > If they want to do it, I say let them. I'm betting they just grab a > > kernel, and the hardware support was why they approached NetBSD. > > This "let them" is kind of what I was curious about - we wouldn't > really want to do anything like this without at least a neutral > reaction from whichever group's work we used. It would be a waste of > our time if we were openly in conflict with the group.. I doubt you'll hear an considerable shouting over it. Our license allows you to do whatever you want with the code, including compile it, run it, GPL it, smoke it, or get it tattooed onto your behind. You just have to give credit where it's due. And yes, I *will* be ready, willing, and able to inspect that tattoo for the copyright notice. ;^) > As far as bets, mine would be on nothing happening at all, as I'm not > sure there are enough people interested in actually *doing* something > (I'm not one of them, I have plenty of other projects to work on:-). Ditto. > As far as why NetBSD - that was my initiative. Of course, people > interested in doing this would have to battle it out amongst > themselves over which BSD to use. I think from your standpoint the differentiation factor would be how many different platforms you want to support. There are other differences, but I'm not sure they'd really stand out to a project such as this. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 15:40:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from acheron.middleboro.ma.us (acheron.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.162.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4DC810E05 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:40:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us) Received: (from mason@localhost) by acheron.middleboro.ma.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07707; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:40:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:40:33 -0500 From: Mason Loring Bliss To: Wes Peters Cc: David Welton , FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' Message-ID: <19990220184033.H11361@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> References: <19990220172712.N93492@lemis.com> <199902202004.NAA10980@usr04.primenet.com> <19990220143410.B16910@debian.org> <36CF42BB.D21920A2@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <36CF42BB.D21920A2@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 04:18:19PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 04:18:19PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Well, no, they *are* allowed to change the license. They're still > required to give credit, though. FWIW, items 2 and 3 indicate that none of the following language may be removed. I'm not sure what the precedent is for adding additional language to the license, but it would seem that the most that could be accomplished would be the generation of a conflict, in which case I would expect that the copyright exists as a part of this, and given further that you can't arbitrarily change the copyright holder. IANAL, and I'm not sure if it's possible to legally view the source in question as being more granular than the single file that contains the notice, which, if possible, would certainly affect my interpretation to some extent. * Copyright (c) 1989, 1993, 1994 * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * This product includes software developed by the University of * California, Berkeley and its contributors. * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software * without specific prior written permission. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. > > > The distribution would hypothetically be named Debian GNU/FreeBSD or > > something like that, and we would obviously give back anything good we > > happened to create. > > But would it be infected with the GPL virus? I doubt anyone here in > BSD-land would be at all interested, if it were to be. > > > > If they want to do it, I say let them. I'm betting they just grab a > > > kernel, and the hardware support was why they approached NetBSD. > > > > This "let them" is kind of what I was curious about - we wouldn't > > really want to do anything like this without at least a neutral > > reaction from whichever group's work we used. It would be a waste of > > our time if we were openly in conflict with the group.. > > I doubt you'll hear an considerable shouting over it. Our license > allows you to do whatever you want with the code, including compile > it, run it, GPL it, smoke it, or get it tattooed onto your behind. > You just have to give credit where it's due. > > And yes, I *will* be ready, willing, and able to inspect that tattoo > for the copyright notice. ;^) > > > As far as bets, mine would be on nothing happening at all, as I'm not > > sure there are enough people interested in actually *doing* something > > (I'm not one of them, I have plenty of other projects to work on:-). > > Ditto. > > > As far as why NetBSD - that was my initiative. Of course, people > > interested in doing this would have to battle it out amongst > > themselves over which BSD to use. > > I think from your standpoint the differentiation factor would be how > many different platforms you want to support. There are other > differences, but I'm not sure they'd really stand out to a project > such as this. > > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Mason Loring Bliss (( "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind dreams mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us )) build their nest with fragments dropped http://acheron.ne.mediaone.net (( from day's caravan." - Rabindranath Tagore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 15:41:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8360C10E59 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:41:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14202; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:58:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd014172; Sat Feb 20 16:58:04 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21335; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:41:02 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902202341.QAA21335@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:41:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: davidw@master.debian.org, tlambert@primenet.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36CF42BB.D21920A2@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at Feb 20, 99 04:18:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > But would it be infected with the GPL virus? I doubt anyone here in > BSD-land would be at all interested, if it were to be. [ ... ] > I doubt you'll hear an considerable shouting over it. Our license > allows you to do whatever you want with the code, including compile > it, run it, GPL it, smoke it, or get it tattooed onto your behind. > You just have to give credit where it's due. You *can't* "GPL it". The GPL specifically states "no other restrictions". The "claim credit caluse" (or "advertising clause", as it commonly referred to) is a restriction that results in a license conflict. Specifically, sentence 2 of section 6 of: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html reads: You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein. And no, whoever else is reading this, I don't want to discuss the merits of this fact. Contact RMS yourself and ask him, it's his license; he'll be happy to tell you why there's a conflict, and pretty much anything else that you ever wanted to know but were afraid someone would tell you: mailto:rms@gnu.ai.mit.edu (I'm pretty sure this address still works). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 16:11: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB9D5112FA for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:11:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21107; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:10:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36CF4F05.A33B157E@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:10:45 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: davidw@master.debian.org, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' References: <199902202341.QAA21335@usr08.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > But would it be infected with the GPL virus? I doubt anyone here in > > BSD-land would be at all interested, if it were to be. > > [ ... ] > > > I doubt you'll hear an considerable shouting over it. Our license > > allows you to do whatever you want with the code, including compile > > it, run it, GPL it, smoke it, or get it tattooed onto your behind. > > You just have to give credit where it's due. > > You *can't* "GPL it". The GPL specifically states "no other restrictions". > The "claim credit caluse" (or "advertising clause", as it commonly > referred to) is a restriction that results in a license conflict. > > Specifically, sentence 2 of section 6 of: > > http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html > > reads: > > You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' > exercise of the rights granted herein. I stand corrected. There isn't anything in the Berkeley license that prevents you from distributing the software however you want. There is, obviously, something in the GPL which prevents you from attaching the GPL to *FREE* code. ;^) Now that's funny. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 16:14:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from acheron.middleboro.ma.us (acheron.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.162.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 006B211A5E for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:14:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us) Received: (from mason@localhost) by acheron.middleboro.ma.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07874; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:12:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:12:36 -0500 From: Mason Loring Bliss To: Terry Lambert Cc: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' Message-ID: <19990220191236.J11361@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> References: <36CF42BB.D21920A2@softweyr.com> <199902202341.QAA21335@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199902202341.QAA21335@usr08.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 11:41:01PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 11:41:01PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > You *can't* "GPL it". The GPL specifically states "no other restrictions". Of course, FWIW, I believe it's entirely possible for the person who creates something to offer the use of multiple licenses, where the user is allowed to choose which license s/he uses. Since only one license would be in use at any one time, there'd never be a conflict. I'd guess at a need for glue language to keep folks from stripping the unused license, but whatever... > mailto:rms@gnu.ai.mit.edu > > (I'm pretty sure this address still works). gnu.org is newer... gnu.ai.mit.edu now only exists, AFAICS, in MX records. -- Mason Loring Bliss (( "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind dreams mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us )) build their nest with fragments dropped http://acheron.ne.mediaone.net (( from day's caravan." - Rabindranath Tagore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 16:58:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5056A10E0B for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:58:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28166; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:58:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd027873; Sat Feb 20 17:57:58 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16115; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:56:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902210056.RAA16115@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' To: mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us (Mason Loring Bliss) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:56:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990220191236.J11361@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> from "Mason Loring Bliss" at Feb 20, 99 07:12:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > You *can't* "GPL it". The GPL specifically states "no other restrictions". > > Of course, FWIW, I believe it's entirely possible for the person who creates > something to offer the use of multiple licenses, where the user is allowed > to choose which license s/he uses. Since only one license would be in use > at any one time, there'd never be a conflict. I'd guess at a need for glue > language to keep folks from stripping the unused license, but whatever... Several products do this; Sleepycat has done it for Berkeley dbm for Linux use (glibc 2.1). The real questions are: 1) Is a metalicense non-strip clause a restriction that conflicts with the GPL? 2) Is code contributed back to a GPL distribution distributable under the non-GPL distributon? What about vice-versa? In general, you can't relicense without a full assignment of rights, which is one of the reasons that code contributed to the FSF or to The Regents or to Perl or to KAFFE all require assignment. I suspect that Sleepycat might be violating some contributor rights with it's relicencing of their BSD licensed code, I just haven't pressed it too hard legally because I like Eric Allman, so his wife can't be that bad a person. For similar reasons, I haven't beat on Eric about the sendmail relicense. Both the dbm and the sendmail code changed license terms. Actually, I'm know that all those OS's that haven't modified the BSD header files for things like TCP/IP are not legally entitled to distribute the code like that (e.g., if SVR4 distributes unmodified BSD header files, then it can't prohibit redistribution by merely affixing their copyright). For FreeBSD, it's clear that a lot of the contributors won't/can't relicense the code. Which won't prevent people from agregating the kernel code with a GPL'ed everything userland and distributing it if they want. They just can't prevent subsequent commercial use of the kernel. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 16:58:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bbcc.ctc.edu (bbcc.ctc.edu [134.39.180.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA7B10E05 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:58:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@bbcc.ctc.edu) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bbcc.ctc.edu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA17610; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:52:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:52:18 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: Mason Loring Bliss Cc: Terry Lambert , FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' In-Reply-To: <19990220191236.J11361@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 11:41:01PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > You *can't* "GPL it". The GPL specifically states "no other restrictions". > > Of course, FWIW, I believe it's entirely possible for the person who creates > something to offer the use of multiple licenses, where the user is allowed > to choose which license s/he uses. Since only one license would be in use > at any one time, there'd never be a conflict. I'd guess at a need for glue > language to keep folks from stripping the unused license, but whatever... > I'd like to see an article on "How BSD protects your intellectual property". Anyone willing to do a short article for The Daemon News on the BSD license? Something that will clue people into the benefits of developing for BSD instead of Linux. Someone who is not afraid to be a little bold? Please send all questions to editors@daemonnews.org and Send any actual articles to article@daemonnews.org -Chris Coleman. Daemon News Editor in Chief To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 21:49:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from acheron.middleboro.ma.us (acheron.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.162.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 003B41181A for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:49:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us) Received: (from mason@localhost) by acheron.middleboro.ma.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA09263; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:50:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:50:46 -0500 From: Mason Loring Bliss To: Terry Lambert Cc: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' Message-ID: <19990220225046.M11361@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> References: <19990220191236.J11361@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> <199902210056.RAA16115@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199902210056.RAA16115@usr06.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 12:56:30AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 20 21:58:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986FE11B2C for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:57:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07536; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:58:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36CF9265.98E0F148@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:58:13 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Coleman Cc: Mason Loring Bliss , Terry Lambert , FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Coleman wrote: > > > On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 11:41:01PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > You *can't* "GPL it". The GPL specifically states "no other restrictions". > > > > Of course, FWIW, I believe it's entirely possible for the person who creates > > something to offer the use of multiple licenses, where the user is allowed > > to choose which license s/he uses. Since only one license would be in use > > at any one time, there'd never be a conflict. I'd guess at a need for glue > > language to keep folks from stripping the unused license, but whatever... > > > > I'd like to see an article on "How BSD protects your intellectual > property". Anyone willing to do a short article for The Daemon News on > the BSD license? Something that will clue people into the benefits of > developing for BSD instead of Linux. Someone who is not afraid to be a > little bold? This certainly sounds like Terry, who hasn't yet appeared on our masthead. So how 'bout it, old chum? Be a good chap there, and write us an article. ;^) P.S. Otherwise I'll start folding some of those lab rat stories into my Daemon News column... -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message