From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 21 2:52:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 523A014BD2 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 02:52:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.130]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA2E48; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 11:52:07 +0100 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA48269; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 11:27:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 11:27:00 +0100 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Chris Coleman Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Get out and advocate something Message-ID: <19991121112700.A48139@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <3836F531.6C98997@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -On [19991120 21:37], Chris Coleman (chrisc@vmunix.com) wrote: >I downloaded Lynx and optimized DN Daily for LYNX and small screens. > >Let me know what you think. > >http://daily.daemonnews.org/~chrisc/daily/ I like it more than the original. You have my vote in favor. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Learn e-mail netiquette: http://www.lemis.com/email.html ...fools rush in where Daemons fear to tread. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 22 10:40: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316AB14BCC; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:39:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06175; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:39:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991122113320.04602ec0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:39:30 -0700 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Xi Graphics drops all FreeBSD products Cc: jkh@cdrom.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to a message I received from Sales Administrator Cindy Miley of Xi Graphics this morning, Xi Graphics "no longer support[s] FreeBSD in our retail products." This would be very sad, if it's true, as it would mean that FreeBSD could not work with dozens of graphics controllers which Xi Graphics supports but XFree86 does not. It would also mean the end of multi- head and laptop support. All of Xi Graphics' products will still be available for Linux, according to their Web page. Sounds like some FreeBSD folks had better get out there, advocate, and MARKET. This is a major setback for the platform. --Brett Glass P.S. -- Note that while I'm copying this message to the "advocacy" list, I'm not subscribed to it -- so I won't see postings that are directed only to that list. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 22 10:56:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5045714BD5; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:56:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06375; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:55:25 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991122114841.042cd950@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:55:01 -0700 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: False Alarm: Xi Graphics representative was mistaken! Cc: jkh@cdrom.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG All: Fortunately, it turns out that the Xi Graphics representative who told me that they were dropping FreeBSD support was mistaken. Her original message to me said: >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:18:31 -0700 >From: Cindy Miley >Reply-To: cindy@xig.com >Organization: Xi Graphics, Inc. >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: Brett Glass >Subject: Re: Appian multi-head cards >References: <4.2.0.58.19991120173144.046389d0@localhost> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-UIDL: aca36a32b5f5c6d96690c6a7d42eaa10 > >Brett, > >Yes, we support several Appian stock cards. There is a list at >www.xig.com/Pages/MXCardsAppian.html for single-head support and >www.xig.com/Pages/MXCardsAppian.html for multi-head support. I am not >sure what she was referring to as far as a specially modified card. To >my knowledge, it would actually require custom development to support a >modified card. However, we no longer support BSD in our retail >products. We have been in discussions with BSDI about including >Accelerated-X on their next version, but I do not know if this will >actually happen. > >We do support several versions of Linux. Thank you for your interest in >Accelerated-X. Please let me know if you have any further questions. Since this message came from an official representative of the company, I took them at their word. But their representative apparently was mistaken: when I actually called the company to ask WHY they would have done such a thing, I was told that what was actually dropped was their X server for BSDI's BSD/OS. Whew. I apologize for the false alarm. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 22 11:49:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8885D14F1D; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:49:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02173; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:49:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@freebsd.org, jkh@cdrom.com, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Xi Graphics drops all FreeBSD products In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:39:30 MST." <4.2.0.58.19991122113320.04602ec0@localhost> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:49:45 -0800 Message-ID: <2169.943300185@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > According to a message I received from Sales Administrator Cindy > Miley of Xi Graphics this morning, Xi Graphics "no longer support[s] > FreeBSD in our retail products." I'm not as concerned by this as I would once have been since XiG's work is also of increasingly little relevance to the community. The XFree86 project has made great strides in supporting the types of graphics cards which were formerly entirely within XiG's purview and the support of Precision Insight and MetroLink has also given them far more development capacity than they used to have. Frankly, I see Xi Graphics as something of a dinosaur. They used to have a purpose, but their increasingly hostile attitude towards the XFree86 project (with whom they might have actually cooperated instead) is entirely out of character with the open source movement and if you want a commercial X server with (enthusiastic) FreeBSD support, I suggest you check out the MetroLink product. It may not be entirely the equal of the XiG product right now, but they're working hard on that and, unlike XiG, recognise the importance of working with the open source community rather than treating it like a second-class citizen, to be despised and feared (and anyone who doesn't think that's an accurate characterization has never talked to XiG about their views of the XFree86 project). You may choose to continue to support a company which is actively hostile to their open source brethren, but I find it increasingly difficult to do so and have already stopped using their products in favor of XFree86 on both my TNT and Voodoo3 cards (XiG, in fact, doesn't even support the Riva TNT). This is not a set-back, this is a long-overdue adjustment. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 22 11:53:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB36714F1D; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:53:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02204; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:52:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@cdrom.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: False Alarm: Xi Graphics representative was mistaken! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:55:01 MST." <4.2.0.58.19991122114841.042cd950@localhost> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:52:52 -0800 Message-ID: <2200.943300372@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Whew. I apologize for the false alarm. It's extremely irresponsible of you to spread this kind of rumor without checking *first* and I'm going to take any future statements from you with a massive dump-truck load of salt as a consequence. I still, nonetheless, stand by my earlier statements. XiG are not being good open source citizens and they do deserve to be spanked for it. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 22 12:57:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E8814FB2; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@wintelcom.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04343; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:24:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:24:15 -0800 (PST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: False Alarm: Xi Graphics representative was mistaken! In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991122114841.042cd950@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > All: > > Fortunately, it turns out that the Xi Graphics representative who > told me that they were dropping FreeBSD support was mistaken. Her > original message to me said: Brett, as a member of the press you ought to be a bit more sensitive about your source verification. ;-) FreeBSD's usebase is growing and the maverick 'advocates' can really cause some PR damage, especially when fed incorrent information. I myself was about to draft a 'what the heck' message to XiG, considering that I've got thier X server on back-order. You also should note that XiG sales people really need to be clued in a bit more, the one I talked to said that there was "no way" they'd be supporting FreeBSD 3.x. *sigh* Aparantly they do, they just don't know it. :) -Alfred > > >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:18:31 -0700 > >From: Cindy Miley > >Reply-To: cindy@xig.com > >Organization: Xi Graphics, Inc. > >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >To: Brett Glass > >Subject: Re: Appian multi-head cards > >References: <4.2.0.58.19991120173144.046389d0@localhost> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >X-UIDL: aca36a32b5f5c6d96690c6a7d42eaa10 > > > >Brett, > > > >Yes, we support several Appian stock cards. There is a list at > >www.xig.com/Pages/MXCardsAppian.html for single-head support and > >www.xig.com/Pages/MXCardsAppian.html for multi-head support. I am not > >sure what she was referring to as far as a specially modified card. To > >my knowledge, it would actually require custom development to support a > >modified card. However, we no longer support BSD in our retail > >products. We have been in discussions with BSDI about including > >Accelerated-X on their next version, but I do not know if this will > >actually happen. > > > >We do support several versions of Linux. Thank you for your interest in > >Accelerated-X. Please let me know if you have any further questions. > > Since this message came from an official representative of the company, > I took them at their word. But their representative apparently was mistaken: > when I actually called the company to ask WHY they would have done such a > thing, I was told that what was actually dropped was their X server for > BSDI's BSD/OS. > > Whew. I apologize for the false alarm. > > --Brett Glass > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 22 17:12: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7818314CE4; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:12:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10921; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:11:46 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991122181026.046b5310@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:11:38 -0700 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: False Alarm: Xi Graphics representative was mistaken! Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@cdrom.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <2200.943300372@localhost> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:52 AM 11/22/1999 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Whew. I apologize for the false alarm. > >It's extremely irresponsible of you to spread this kind of rumor >without checking *first* The statement I received came directly from a company representative and was very clear and unambiguous. It turns out that she made a mistake, and I apologize for propagating that mistake. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 22 17:16:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98121501C; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:16:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10973; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:16:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991122181212.046b6640@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:15:59 -0700 To: Alfred Perlstein From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: False Alarm: Xi Graphics representative was mistaken! Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.19991122114841.042cd950@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 01:24 PM 11/22/1999 -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >Brett, as a member of the press you ought to be a bit more sensitive >about your source verification. ;-) Well, I received the word directly from a bona fide representative of the company. That's normally a pretty reliable source! I did not know that this person was mistaken, and posted a correction as soon as I *did* know. What else could I do? I was shocked, because I was about to order a few copies of their X server for some machines here. >You also should note that XiG sales people really need to be >clued in a bit more, the one I talked to said that there was >"no way" they'd be supporting FreeBSD 3.x. I will now know better. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 11:22:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from main.apex.dp.ua (main.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04DAC14F99 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:22:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup456.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup456.apex.dp.ua (dialup456.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.156]) by main.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA38905 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:24:05 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland@dialup456.apex.dp.ua) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup456.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA48700; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:21:22 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BSD based Debian... From: Vadim Belman Date: 24 Nov 1999 21:21:21 +0200 Message-ID: <85ln7nn1am.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 28 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For those who don't read Slashdot this quote from the official Debian Web site. No comments... I especially wonder *how* are they gonna to cooperate with FreeBSD community? Or will they develop their own kernel branch? I mean it doesn't seem possible to have normal relations when one say such things... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Debian with the FreeBSD kernel was the subject of a heated week-long discussion. It seems that since this idea was first conceived in February, a few people have been working on the port. The status of their work can be read about here. Basically, they are using the FreeBSD kernel and libc, and recompiling Debian packages to work on that system. Reactions varied. John Goerzen worries that a version of Debian based on a BSD copyrighted kernel would open the door to third parties taking our work and making it proprietary, and also that "we are essentially giving first aid to software that is dying (and rightfully so) because of its license". Many others disagree with him and have no problems with the BSD license. Others wonder if it wouldn't be technically better, and easier in the long run, to port glibc to FreeBSD, and allow Debian packages to be used unchanged with that kernel and library combination. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 11:27:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3CC015324 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:27:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) id 11qi4L-0007Az-00; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:27:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA02510; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:27:08 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:27:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Jonathon McKitrick To: Vadim Belman Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... In-Reply-To: <85ln7nn1am.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24 Nov 1999, Vadim Belman wrote: > > For those who don't read Slashdot this quote from the official > Debian Web site. No comments... > >proprietary, and also that "we are essentially giving first aid to software >that is dying (and rightfully so) because of its license". Many others This comment especially.. sickens and angers me.... -jm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 11:28: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506BB153DA for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:28:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7232C1C5E; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:28:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D86D3836; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:28:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:28:52 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Vadim Belman Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... In-Reply-To: <85ln7nn1am.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24 Nov 1999, Vadim Belman wrote: > I especially wonder *how* are they gonna to cooperate with FreeBSD > community? Or will they develop their own kernel branch? I mean it > doesn't seem possible to have normal relations when one say such > things... > recompiling Debian packages to work on that system. Reactions varied. John > Goerzen worries that a version of Debian based on a BSD copyrighted kernel > would open the door to third parties taking our work and making it > proprietary, and also that "we are essentially giving first aid to software > that is dying (and rightfully so) because of its license". Many others Several people have told me that the 'John Goerzen' quoted here is an idiot even amongst the Debian community. Take with a grain of salt.. -- - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 11:48:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from main.apex.dp.ua (main.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61AD41545F for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:48:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup456.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup456.apex.dp.ua (dialup456.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.156]) by main.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA40112 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:51:10 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland@dialup456.apex.dp.ua) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup456.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA55155; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:48:26 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: Bill Fumerola To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... References: From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: Bill Fumerola's message of "Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:28:52 -0500 (EST)" Date: 24 Nov 1999 21:47:51 +0200 Message-ID: <85emdfn02g.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 25 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Bill! On 24 Nov 99 at 20:28, "Bill" (Bill Fumerola) wrote: >> recompiling Debian packages to work on that system. Reactions >> varied. John Goerzen worries that a version of Debian based on a BSD >> copyrighted kernel would open the door to third parties taking our work >> and making it proprietary, and also that "we are essentially giving >> first aid to software that is dying (and rightfully so) because of its >> license". Many others Bill> Several people have told me that the 'John Goerzen' quoted here is Bill> an idiot even amongst the Debian community. This should be right. Such a rubbish cannot be said by a clever person. Still, being placed on an official site it looks more serious. Bill> Take with a grain of salt.. I expect a bit more job for myself: explanations for some beginners will be necessary. -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 12:39:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from main.apex.dp.ua (main.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 297DC15314 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:39:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup456.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup456.apex.dp.ua (dialup456.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.156]) by main.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA42163; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:41:46 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland@dialup456.apex.dp.ua) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup456.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA67658; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:39:02 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: "Jim O'Donald" To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: "Jim O'Donald" Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... References: <73FC0300EDDAD211872300902746017B368A7F@CFU9> From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: "Jim O'Donald"'s message of "Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:27:48 -0600" Date: 24 Nov 1999 22:39:00 +0200 Message-ID: <853dtvmxp6.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 18 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Jim! On 24 Nov 99 at 21:27, "Jim" (Jim O'Donald) wrote: Jim> Doesn't anyone think that it's odd that Debian would scrap the Linux Jim> kernel in favor of the BSD kernel? What would be the reasoning Jim> behind that? Have they lost faith in the Linux kernel, or just Jim> decided to try a different kernel to try and compete with Red Hat? They also try Hurd. I don't know how much of success did they get on this way. Perhaps, it's just an endeavor of being as flexible as possible. Hopefully, it will also result in increased portability of some software. -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 12:48:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from foobar.franken.de (foobar.franken.de [194.94.249.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 985361543C for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:48:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from logix@foobar.franken.de) Received: (from logix@localhost) by foobar.franken.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA04365; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:46:26 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19991124214626.B1639@foobar.franken.de> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:46:26 +0100 From: Harold Gutch To: Jonathon McKitrick , Vadim Belman Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... References: <85ln7nn1am.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jonathon McKitrick on Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 07:27:08PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 07:27:08PM +0000, Jonathon McKitrick wrote: > > On 24 Nov 1999, Vadim Belman wrote: > > > > For those who don't read Slashdot this quote from the official > > Debian Web site. No comments... > > > >proprietary, and also that "we are essentially giving first aid to software > >that is dying (and rightfully so) because of its license". Many others > > This comment especially.. sickens and angers me.... John Goerzen of course was referring to Debian, not FreeBSD ;). bye, Harold -- Sleep is an abstinence syndrome wich occurs due to lack of caffein. Wed Mar 4 04:53:33 CET 1998 #unix, ircnet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 13: 1: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9A7D14F80 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:00:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05360; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:00:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:00:38 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: Vadim Belman Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... In-Reply-To: <85ln7nn1am.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I always feel like Debian is the middle child in a big family. always having to do "something different" to get attention. -Pat -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 13:11:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB74514E43 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:11:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) id 11qjgd-0008GC-00; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:10:47 +0000 Received: from localhost (jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04097; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:10:46 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:10:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Jonathon McKitrick To: Harold Gutch Cc: Vadim Belman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... In-Reply-To: <19991124214626.B1639@foobar.franken.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Harold Gutch wrote: >> >proprietary, and also that "we are essentially giving first aid to software >> >that is dying (and rightfully so) because of its license". Many others >> >> This comment especially.. sickens and angers me.... > >John Goerzen of course was referring to Debian, not FreeBSD ;). Well, in that case...carry on, then ;-) My mistake. This *could* be a rather interesting development. All these linux distros are realizing all their secrets are out. -jm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 13:18:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E354115007 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:18:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@wintelcom.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17772; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:44:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:44:01 -0800 (PST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Jonathon McKitrick Cc: Vadim Belman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Jonathon McKitrick wrote: > > On 24 Nov 1999, Vadim Belman wrote: > > > > For those who don't read Slashdot this quote from the official > > Debian Web site. No comments... > > > >proprietary, and also that "we are essentially giving first aid to software > >that is dying (and rightfully so) because of its license". Many others > > This comment especially.. sickens and angers me.... I don't think it's a dig on FreeBSD (or the BSDL) from my PoV it looks like a dig on closed-source systems. It's still kinda ick. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 13:23:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 777891548E for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:23:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E244F1C7D; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:22:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA65384D; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:22:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:22:26 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Jonathon McKitrick , Vadim Belman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > I don't think it's a dig on FreeBSD (or the BSDL) from my > PoV it looks like a dig on closed-source systems. > > It's still kinda ick. On the press release page the author's quote is hyperlinked to the original post. Read that statement in context for more ick. -- - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 15:15: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mojave.sitaranetworks.com (mojave.sitaranetworks.com [199.103.141.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41AED14DDE for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:15:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.sitaranetworks.com) Message-ID: <19991124181214.06710@mojave.sitaranetworks.com> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 18:12:14 -0500 From: Greg Lehey To: Bill Fumerola , Vadim Belman Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <85ln7nn1am.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: ; from Bill Fumerola on Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 01:28:52PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 24 November 1999 at 13:28:52 -0500, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On 24 Nov 1999, Vadim Belman wrote: > >> I especially wonder *how* are they gonna to cooperate with FreeBSD >> community? Or will they develop their own kernel branch? I mean it >> doesn't seem possible to have normal relations when one say such >> things... > >> recompiling Debian packages to work on that system. Reactions varied. John >> Goerzen worries that a version of Debian based on a BSD copyrighted kernel >> would open the door to third parties taking our work and making it >> proprietary, and also that "we are essentially giving first aid to software >> that is dying (and rightfully so) because of its license". Many others > > Several people have told me that the 'John Goerzen' quoted here is an > idiot even amongst the Debian community. I don't think that 'even' was called for. But yes, John G. doesn't seem to have many supporters even in the Debian community. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 24 16:36:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ind.alcatel.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A433F14C43 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:36:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com (mailhub [198.206.181.70]) by ind.alcatel.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (ind.alcatel.com 3.0 [OUT])) with SMTP id QAA12341; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:33:31 -0800 (PST) X-Origination-Site: Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA29587; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:33:30 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn0.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA15642; Wed, 24 Nov 99 16:33:13 PST Message-Id: <383C83C7.325AFA45@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:33:11 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Bill Fumerola , Vadim Belman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... References: <85ln7nn1am.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> <19991124181214.06710@mojave.sitaranetworks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Wednesday, 24 November 1999 at 13:28:52 -0500, Bill Fumerola wrote: > > > > Several people have told me that the 'John Goerzen' quoted here is an > > idiot even amongst the Debian community. > > I don't think that 'even' was called for. But yes, John G. doesn't > seem to have many supporters even in the Debian community. Debian does seem to attract the most rabid of the anti-commercial-software crowd, so the 'even' might have been called for. Most of the rest of the commentary was far less negative, if you click all the way to the thread display and poke around. It's important to remember that some members of EVERY community suffer from recto-cranial inversion, that doesn't mean it is appropriate to paint the entire community with the idiot brush. Imagine what people would think of us if their entire view resulted from reading the current flamewar in committers. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Nov 25 4: 1:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8AD414CB8 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 04:01:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p05-dn01kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [210.132.6.134]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) with ESMTP id VAA21713; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 21:01:27 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <383D1A7A.1FD98F37@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:16:10 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vadim Belman Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... References: <85ln7nn1am.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Vadim Belman wrote: > > I especially wonder *how* are they gonna to cooperate with FreeBSD > community? Or will they develop their own kernel branch? I mean it > doesn't seem possible to have normal relations when one say such > things... > proprietary, and also that "we are essentially giving first aid to software > that is dying (and rightfully so) because of its license". Many others This was said by John Goerzen, which does not belong to the Debian GNU/FreeBSD project, and, in fact, is completely against people even dedicating effort to it. Basically, John Goerzen is just the kind of GPL fanatic FUD spreader that makes a lot of people eye GPL with suspicion. In his messages I have read ever single FUD about BSD I had ever read to date, and some new. Fortunately, about everyone else disagrees with him. I have read only a single person agree with him, and, then, only partially. So, basically, I don't think Mr. Goerzen is of any concern. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) who is as social as a wampas dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Nov 25 4: 3:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F8014CB8 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 04:03:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p05-dn01kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [210.132.6.134]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) with ESMTP id VAA21790; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 21:01:38 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <383D1B1F.CB4149F@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:18:55 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Jonathon McKitrick , Vadim Belman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > I don't think it's a dig on FreeBSD (or the BSDL) from my > PoV it looks like a dig on closed-source systems. Actually, JG was referring explicitly to FreeBSD. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) who is as social as a wampas dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Nov 25 9:24:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5501F14A23 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 09:24:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 16A3D1C4A; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 11:25:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06548384D; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 11:25:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 11:25:45 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Greg Lehey Cc: Vadim Belman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD based Debian... In-Reply-To: <19991124181214.06710@mojave.sitaranetworks.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > > Several people have told me that the 'John Goerzen' quoted here is an > > idiot even amongst the Debian community. > > I don't think that 'even' was called for. But yes, John G. doesn't > seem to have many supporters even in the Debian community. I meant 'even' like this: Even the Debian community considers him an idiot. Not: Even amongst the Debian community he is an idiot. Sorry for the ambiguous statement. -- - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Nov 26 8:43:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mixt.apex.dp.ua (mixt.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E172E14CC7 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 08:43:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup382.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup382.apex.dp.ua (dialup382.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.82]) by mixt.apex.dp.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13480 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:42:57 +0200 (EET) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup382.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17363; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:42:54 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Preparing for an article. From: Vadim Belman Date: 26 Nov 1999 18:42:22 +0200 Message-ID: <85yabldx1t.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 7 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I gonna write an article about FreeBSD for a Russian computer magazine and collecting materials at the moment. I'll be very thankful for interesting resources, statistics, whatever else might be useful. -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message