From owner-freebsd-afs Wed Apr 28 21:37:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-afs@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2A81509E for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:37:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA12331 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199904290437.AAA12331@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-afs@freebsd.org Subject: a new beginning Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:37:20 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, the port of AFS 3.4 to FreeBSD was pretty much a complete failure. I had attempted to restart it later from scratch, but gave up when I found 3.5 was just arround the corner and was going to be a large re-org of everything. 3.5 is here, and I am going to start again. I will be asking many bone-headed questions about AFS itself and the VFS/VM interface to FreeBSD. please bear with me, I know very little about this. I am eager to learn though :) -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-afs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-afs Thu Apr 29 4:27:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-afs@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4D714E62 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:27:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA11384; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:27:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:27:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-afs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a new beginning In-Reply-To: <199904290437.AAA12331@cs.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, David E. Cross wrote: > Well, the port of AFS 3.4 to FreeBSD was pretty much a complete failure. > I had attempted to restart it later from scratch, but gave up when I > found 3.5 was just arround the corner and was going to be a large re-org > of everything. 3.5 is here, and I am going to start again. I will be > asking many bone-headed questions about AFS itself and the VFS/VM > interface to FreeBSD. please bear with me, I know very little about > this. I am eager to learn though :) Given the availability of Arla, is there a reason we still want to port the Transarc AFS client? Wouldn't it be more productive to get really bored and write a BSD-licensed AFS server for FreeBSD, making FreeBSD the ultimate free network server platform? :) This wouldn't necessarily involve learning FreeBSD VM/VFS because you don't have to do the Transarc direct inode-open thing, and if you really wanted to the Arla module could easily be made to do that. They already have the initial framework for a server (all the backend RPC call names and some setup and examples). If there is interest in writing a free AFS server, I may have a month of time I could devote to it this summer. My suspicion is that this would be an incredibly worthwhile project, given the availability of a free client already. No doubt the KTH folk are interested in doing this already, but last I spoke to them (Assar was here in Pittsburgh about a month ago) they hadn't started yet. We already have Quorum code that was originally intended for Coda, but hasn't gone in there yet (BSD-licensed), and there are some folk around here who have various components that could go into it, hopefully all also liberally licensed. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-afs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-afs Thu Apr 29 14:38:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-afs@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F295F15034 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:38:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA00355; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199904292137.RAA00355@cs.rpi.edu> To: Robert Watson Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: a new beginning In-Reply-To: Message from Robert Watson of "Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:27:21 EDT." Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:37:58 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Given the availability of Arla, is there a reason we still want to port > the Transarc AFS client? Wouldn't it be more productive to get really > bored and write a BSD-licensed AFS server for FreeBSD, making FreeBSD the > ultimate free network server platform? :) This wouldn't necessarily > involve learning FreeBSD VM/VFS because you don't have to do the Transarc > direct inode-open thing, and if you really wanted to the Arla module could > easily be made to do that. They already have the initial framework for a > server (all the backend RPC call names and some setup and examples). > > If there is interest in writing a free AFS server, I may have a month of > time I could devote to it this summer. My suspicion is that this would be > > an incredibly worthwhile project, given the availability of a free client > already. No doubt the KTH folk are interested in doing this already, but > last I spoke to them (Assar was here in Pittsburgh about a month ago) they > hadn't started yet. We already have Quorum code that was originally > intended for Coda, but hasn't gone in there yet (BSD-licensed), and there > are some folk around here who have various components that could go into > it, hopefully all also liberally licensed. Hmm... that is something that I had not considered. I do use Arla to a very limited extent (just getting started with it). Last I had heard arla sat on the host as a virtual NFS server, so access to /afs/... would get mapped as a NFS request to arla, who would then make the call to the AFS server itself. Is this still true? Does Arla do block caching, or is it still whole file? Finally, how stable is Arla, how likely am I to panic a Kernel running with arla? I ask since we wish to make our department FreeBSD machines AFS-ized. I certainly think this is a very worthwhile project, as is the DCE/DFS project. I am just trying to decide in my mind what is a better use of my time, writing from scratch something that already exists and is 'close' to working, or trying to understand someone elses code and bend it to fit a model it doesn't presently. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-afs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-afs Thu Apr 29 17: 5:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-afs@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A62A314FB3 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:05:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA16846; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:05:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:05:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a new beginning In-Reply-To: <199904292137.RAA00355@cs.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, David E. Cross wrote: > > Given the availability of Arla, is there a reason we still want to port > > the Transarc AFS client? Wouldn't it be more productive to get really > > bored and write a BSD-licensed AFS server for FreeBSD, making FreeBSD the > > ultimate free network server platform? :) This wouldn't necessarily > > involve learning FreeBSD VM/VFS because you don't have to do the Transarc > > direct inode-open thing, and if you really wanted to the Arla module could > > easily be made to do that. They already have the initial framework for a > > server (all the backend RPC call names and some setup and examples). > > > > If there is interest in writing a free AFS server, I may have a month of > > time I could devote to it this summer. My suspicion is that this would be > > > an incredibly worthwhile project, given the availability of a free client > > already. No doubt the KTH folk are interested in doing this already, but > > last I spoke to them (Assar was here in Pittsburgh about a month ago) they > > hadn't started yet. We already have Quorum code that was originally > > intended for Coda, but hasn't gone in there yet (BSD-licensed), and there > > are some folk around here who have various components that could go into > > it, hopefully all also liberally licensed. > > Hmm... that is something that I had not considered. I do use Arla to a > very limited extent (just getting started with it). Last I had heard > arla sat on the host as a virtual NFS server, so access to /afs/... > would get mapped as a NFS request to arla, who would then make the call > to the AFS server itself. Is this still true? Does Arla do block > caching, or is it still whole file? Finally, how stable is Arla, how > likely am I to panic a Kernel running with arla? I ask since we wish to > make our department FreeBSD machines AFS-ized. Arla is now a fully functional AFS client. It has occasional bugs, and indeed caches the whole file, but works really well and is quite stable. And the Arla folk are very responsive to bug reports. And also have a BSD-style license. I've been using their kernel module for a caching file system I've been playing with running on top of a CDROM drive for performance (don't worry, it doesn't work :). I believe they also have a functional disconnected mode, although they don't have Coda-like reintegration. > I certainly think this is a very worthwhile project, as is the DCE/DFS > project. I am just trying to decide in my mind what is a better use of > my time, writing from scratch something that already exists and is > 'close' to working, or trying to understand someone elses code and bend > it to fit a model it doesn't presently. Now the only thing preventing AFS from being a free file system is the lack of a server that is freely available. And the nice thing about getting to the project first is the ability to dictate the BSD license :-). Or something. But it would certainly be a useful project. The latest version of Arla is 0.23 (the ports collection version is really obscure, btw) -- it comes with the basic RPC calls of a server and some hard-coded stuff. We'd need to get a working Ubik implementation for the supporting database servers, and then have volume servers. The ability to clone, etc, is pretty neat and we'd definitely want to reproduce all that stuff. AFS also makes a great platform to do high volume web hosting, needless to say. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-afs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-afs Thu Apr 29 18:30:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-afs@freebsd.org Received: from pilot006.cl.msu.edu (pilot006.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C18C14C56 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:30:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zik@pilot.msu.edu) Received: (from zik@localhost) by pilot006.cl.msu.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA61400 for "freebsd-afs@freebsd.org"; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:30:42 -0400 Message-Id: <199904300130.VAA61400@pilot006.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: a new beginning To: freebsd-afs@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:30:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward R Symanzik" In-Reply-To: <199904292137.RAA00355@cs.rpi.edu> from "David E. Cross" at Apr 29, 99 05:37:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Given the availability of Arla, is there a reason we still want to port > the Transarc AFS client? There is a chance Transarc would pick up support in the future if most of the work was done. A small chance, but a chance. It is also more likely to retain compatability as Transarc makes changes. There is another issue here. Several of us have seen Transarc's code. This could taint the open-source status of Arla. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-afs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-afs Fri Apr 30 8:52:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-afs@freebsd.org Received: from shivers.ne.mediaone.net (shivers.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.174.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F26515251 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:52:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shivers@shivers.ne.mediaone.net) Received: (from shivers@localhost) by shivers.ne.mediaone.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA15632; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:56:13 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:56:13 -0400 Message-Id: <199904301556.LAA15632@shivers.ne.mediaone.net> From: Olin Shivers To: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Cc: crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Robert Watson on Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:05:07 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: a new beginning Reply-To: shivers@ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I certainly think this is a very worthwhile project, as is the DCE/DFS > project. I am just trying to decide in my mind what is a better use of > my time, writing from scratch something that already exists and is > 'close' to working, or trying to understand someone elses code and bend > it to fit a model it doesn't presently. Now the only thing preventing AFS from being a free file system is the lack of a server that is freely available. And the nice thing about getting to the project first is the ability to dictate the BSD license :-). Yes! This would be a very important piece of software to create. AFS is like the Web, but much better -- it has real semantics, it scales, it automatically operates with any app that understands files. It is a global filesystem. If AFS could be rolled out across the Internet open software community, it would be a tremendous enabler. AFS is a community-enabling piece of technology. It encourages sharing and cooperation. Its impact has always been limited by the lack of a free server -- contrast to NFS. -Olin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-afs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-afs Fri Apr 30 9: 5:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-afs@freebsd.org Received: from spork.cs.unm.edu (spork.cs.unm.edu [198.59.151.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30D114F96 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:05:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from colinj@cs.unm.edu) Received: from waimea.cs.unm.edu ([198.83.92.103]) by spork.cs.unm.edu with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 10dFn4-0005wY-00 for freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:05:26 -0600 Received: from localhost (colinj@localhost) by waimea.cs.unm.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26173 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:03:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from colinj@cs.unm.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: waimea.cs.unm.edu: colinj owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:03:18 -0600 From: Colin Eric Johnson To: freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a new beginning In-Reply-To: <199904301556.LAA15632@shivers.ne.mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Olin Shivers wrote: > > I certainly think this is a very worthwhile project, as is the DCE/DFS > > project. I am just trying to decide in my mind what is a better use of > > my time, writing from scratch something that already exists and is > > 'close' to working, or trying to understand someone elses code and bend > > it to fit a model it doesn't presently. > > Now the only thing preventing AFS from being a free file system is the > lack of a server that is freely available. And the nice thing about > getting to the project first is the ability to dictate the BSD license > :-). > > Yes! > > This would be a very important piece of software to create. AFS is like > the Web, but much better -- it has real semantics, it scales, it automatically > operates with any app that understands files. It is a global filesystem. > If AFS could be rolled out across the Internet open software community, it > would be a tremendous enabler. > > AFS is a community-enabling piece of technology. It encourages sharing and > cooperation. Its impact has always been limited by the lack of a free server > -- contrast to NFS. > -Olin So, I'm going to wonder, out loud, what about coda? I know that the goal for the folks at coda was to set up something like AFS and that would be ``free.'' Would a more useful direction to head in be working on arla so that it can speak to both AFS and coda servers? Colin E. Johnson | colinj@unm.edu | http://www.unm.edu/~colinj/ Parker always felt things in his bones because, he said, it saved space. -Steven Ayelett, _The Crime Studio_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-afs" in the body of the message