From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 21 10:34:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (mail0.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0B114C3B for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:34:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-72-141.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.72.141]) by mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16563; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:33:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA64004; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:24:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: brett@lariat.org Cc: wghicks@bellsouth.net, grog@lemis.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Use of FreeBSD-STABLE (was: Oddity in name resolution) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:54:00 -0700" <4.1.19990321105156.03f213d0@localhost> References: <4.1.19990321105156.03f213d0@localhost> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990321132457X.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:24:57 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 40 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [to -chat] From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Use of FreeBSD-STABLE (was: Oddity in name resolution) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:54:00 -0700 > At 10:02 PM 3/20/99 -0500, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > >Watching releng3.freebsd.org to see when snapshots are available > >seems to be a good indicator as well. > > Well, if the "snapshots" are made of particularly good -STABLE builds > with which users have had good success, they might be worth looking at. > The thing is, we can't play "-STABLE roulette." Anything we install > must have been broken in and well tested as an entire build. That's > just a basic requirement for any software we put on a production machine. > From my experience -STABLE has always been the "best" thing for _our_ production uses. These are mostly development systems, hosts for in-circuit emulation, and a few CVS repository servers. Our developers are at *least* as fussy about downtime as a typical ISP customer. I suppose an ISP's shell host, mail or news servers would have different concerns but the people I know who administer those usually end up with heavily customized and finely tuned systems anyway. Updating them is often a real PITA. By working from a locally modified FreeBSD repository (another thread) even this can be made more manageable. I'd suggest that FreeBSD is a better choice for those types of systems *because* of the availability of the project metadata. Don't like -STABLE? Fine. Pick your own mix of proven kernel/userland components. It's pretty easy to do with a local repository and PicoBSD offers an excellent example for specialized applications. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 21 11:51: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A68014C3B for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:51:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA14048; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:50:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990321121915.00b17500@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:50:27 -0700 To: W Gerald Hicks From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Use of FreeBSD-STABLE (was: Oddity in name resolution) Cc: wghicks@bellsouth.net, grog@lemis.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990321132457X.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> References: <4.1.19990321105156.03f213d0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:24 PM 3/21/99 -0500, W Gerald Hicks wrote: >production uses. These are mostly development systems, hosts for >in-circuit emulation, and a few CVS repository servers. Our developers >are at *least* as fussy about downtime as a typical ISP customer. > >I suppose an ISP's shell host, mail or news servers would have different >concerns Absolutely. Because it can affect hundreds of those fussy customers all at once! The machines I've been setting up are mission-critical for the organizations they serve -- mail servers, PPP routers for whole branch offices, and Web servers which take orders that keep the company in business. I'm pleased to say that FreeBSD does very well at that. However, for a server like that, you want a build which has been shaken down and stress-tested by a LOT of people. Only the -RELEASE builds are REALLY known to really meet that criterion now. I've brought in patches and individual programs from -STABLE to solve specific problems, but if I were to bring in an entire build, here would be my requirements: 1. A large number of users should have installed and tested that particular build. Because -STABLE is built frequently, the only -STABLE builds that would meet this criterion would be "snapshots" which were marked as such and distributed via the CD-ROM subscription program. A "snapshot" could be a candidate if it were known that it had been used in several HUNDRED diverse and demanding installations. 1000 would be a nice round number to shoot for. 2. A few weeks should have elapsed in which that snapshot had not proven to have significant problems. (Yes, by then, -STABLE would have moved on, so we'd install the snapshot because it was a tested build.) It would instill even more confidence if the snapshots were rated in terms of problems encountered, and one could pick one that had an especially good rating. >but the people I know who administer those usually end up with >heavily customized and finely tuned systems anyway. Updating them is >often a real PITA. By working from a locally modified FreeBSD repository >(another thread) even this can be made more manageable. Yep, but we would still try to limit our updates and changes. It was a nightmare when we hit the ATAPI_STATIC problem in 2.2-STABLE. (If you didn't compile with the ATAPI_STATIC option, a machine with an IDE hard drive would crash under heavy loads. It took us a VERY long time to figure out that this was what made the difference, even after we took the machine out of production and installed a temporary replacement. Why? Because the machine would crash when building new kernels for itself. >Don't like -STABLE? Fine. Pick your own mix of proven kernel/userland >components. It's not that we do or don't "like" -STABLE. We just have very stringent standards for what we'll put on a production machine. Those standards require widespread testing (ideally, 1000 or more diverse installations) in actual use over at least a few weeks. (My guesstimate is that it could take 3-4 weeks before that many people receive, and get around to installing, a new snapshot.) Having it on a branch such as -STABLE in which the modifications are conservative is also important. I have systems that are out on the hairy edge of -CURRENT too, but I don't think I'm alone in wanting a thoroughly tested build for a production system. It'd be nice if one could find, at any given time, an official snaphot that met these criteria. Maybe that version could be called -PRODUCTION and updated to the latest snapshot that had been "tested and proven." --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 22 2:54:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from python.shoal.net.au (python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8FB414BDB for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:54:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@python.shoal.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00713 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:53:59 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:53:58 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: userfriendly Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org have a look at the latest :-) http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990322.html Andrew Perry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 22 9:33:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat192.112.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.192.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5156915189 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:33:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA94351 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:33:01 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:33:00 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Finally... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If nobody has been following the "discussion" (its a cartoon)...at least cartoon's have taste :) http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 22 9:34:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat192.112.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.192.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5344514E5C for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:34:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA94355; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:34:00 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:34:00 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: sandman@hub.org, deb@hub.org Subject: This just makes my week...:) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990322.html Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 22 15:15:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AECF14E6F for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:15:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id PAA75150; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:14:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:14:55 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: announce@bafug.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Subject: Berkeley BAFUG Meeting Message-ID: <19990322151455.A75109@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group -- Berkeley BAFUG -- The Berkeley chapter of the Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, March 25th. This months meeting will be held at Transbay/U C Computers at 2569 Telegraph in Berkeley. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Agenda: ==> Due to unforseen problems this months meeting will not have any speakers. This will be you basic pizza and shmooz meeting ==> Josef Grosch will talk about BAFUGs plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon. We will also be holding our traditional Install-A-Thon at the Cow Place in Daly City. The date for this show is March 27th. This Install-A-Thon will be held jointly with BALUG (Bay Area Linux Users Group) and CABAL (Consortium of All Bay Area Linux). See http://www.bafug.org/Install.html for more details including directions on how to get to the Cow Palace. ==> Thanks for all the donations of hardware to build BAFUG display & demo machine for use at the Install-a-thons. A big thinks to Whistle Communications for providing us with a very long time loan of a Whistle Interjet for us to use as an FTP server at our Install-A-Thons. Whistle Communications can be found at www.whistle.com ==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round. ==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at Transbay/U C Computers in Berkeley. Transbay is located at 2569 Telegraph Ave. in Berkeley between Blake and Parker. There is limited parking on the street. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. The meeting will end at around 10:00pm which will allow for an hour or so to shmooz. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs http://www.bafug.org http://www.transbay.net Contact: Please contact either Nicole Harrington, or Josef Grosch on or before March 25th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. Nicole Harrington can be reached at nicole@mediacity.com Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com $Id: March99Announce.Berkeley.txt,v 1.2 1999/03/22 23:08:53 jgrosch Exp $ -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 22 17:38:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nefertiti.lightningweb.com (nefertiti.lightningweb.com [198.68.191.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CD3514FB2; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:38:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keith@lightningweb.com) Received: from localhost (keith@localhost) by nefertiti.lightningweb.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13463; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:40:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:40:22 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Woodman To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: fixit.flp NOW Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org HELP. In dire need of a way to boot my system for repair. The last I read, the fixit disk process for 3.0 was broken so I couldn't make one. Is there a way to get this sytem up and rolling with another fixit floppy? Could realy use some advise here. Seems that while preparing to update to -stable, and running mergemaster. I messed up the passwd stuff. Can't seem to get into the system after a logout. :-( I'll be accepting laughs and outright gut busters between the hours of 6pm and 9pm pacific time. And now for my next trick.............. :-) Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Keith Woodman Technical Coordinator Keith@lightningweb.com Lightningweb LLC pid 7962 (sniffit), uid 0: exited on signal 10 (core dumped) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 22 17:42:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop.uniserve.com (pop.uniserve.com [204.244.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E47D5152E7; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:42:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@uniserve.com) Received: from shell.uniserve.ca [204.244.186.218] by pop.uniserve.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #4) id 10PGCR-0005Q5-00; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:41:47 -0800 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:41:44 -0800 (PST) From: Tom X-Sender: tom@shell.uniserve.ca To: Keith Woodman Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fixit.flp NOW In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Keith Woodman wrote: > HELP. In dire need of a way to boot my system for repair. The > last I read, the fixit disk process for 3.0 was broken so I couldn't make > one. Is there a way to get this sytem up and rolling with another fixit > floppy? Could realy use some advise here. Seems that while preparing to > update to -stable, and running mergemaster. I messed up the passwd stuff. > Can't seem to get into the system after a logout. :-( That shouldn't require an emergency boot disk. You only need an emergency boot disk if you can't boot. Just boot single user, and change the password (or rebuild the password database). Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 22 17:42:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E0A4152F3; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:42:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18265; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:41:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:41:43 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Keith Woodman Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fixit.flp NOW Message-ID: <19990322194143.D17547@futuresouth.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Keith Woodman on Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 05:40:22PM -0800 X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Bad crosspost. BAD! ;-] On Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 05:40:22PM -0800, a little birdie told me that Keith Woodman remarked > HELP. In dire need of a way to boot my system for repair. The > last I read, the fixit disk process for 3.0 was broken so I couldn't make > one. Is there a way to get this sytem up and rolling with another fixit > floppy? Could realy use some advise here. Seems that while preparing to > update to -stable, and running mergemaster. I messed up the passwd stuff. > Can't seem to get into the system after a logout. :-( > I'll be accepting laughs and outright gut busters between the hours of 6pm > and 9pm pacific time. And now for my next trick.............. :-) If you used mergemaster to merge the password file over, it should have created root with no password. So can't you just boot single user and handle passwords/etc? --- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | Matthew Fuller http://www.over-yonder.net/ | * fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net * | UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD | * FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting * | "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, | * is because I haven't figured out how to light the * | middle yet" | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 22 18:55:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B8C21530D for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:55:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-15-94.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.15.94]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA25302; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:55:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA10950; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:55:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199903230255.UAA10950@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, sandman@hub.org, deb@hub.org From: David Kelly Subject: Re: This just makes my week...:) In-reply-to: Message from The Hermit Hacker of "Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:34:00 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:55:08 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The Hermit Hacker writes: > > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990322.html ... Now if only we can get Helen to install FreeBSD and port M.O.M.S. http://www.peterzale.com/ :-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 22 19:51:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nefertiti.lightningweb.com (nefertiti.lightningweb.com [198.68.191.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 297AD1529D; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:51:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keith@lightningweb.com) Received: from localhost (keith@localhost) by nefertiti.lightningweb.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA19541; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:53:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:53:42 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Woodman To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fixit.flp NOW In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well. To follow up, It wasn't the passwd at all. Went up single user after just doing a flip of the switch to turn the machine off. Came up single user. fsck and mount the devices. Did a vipw. checked for oddeties. All looks fine. Made sure that /etc/login.access wasn't all screwy and disallowing console logins or some stupid thing. I rebooted properly this time. Came up ok. loged in as root. Did a cd /etc and got an error saying. cd: RESTRICTED and didn't allow me to change directories. As if I were running bash -r or something. The last little ouch is that none of the other system users are noticed by the system at all. Even as root trying to do a passwd fails telling me there is no such user. This is very telling. I'm not entirely sure how at the moment as I am getting a nice radiation tan from sitting in front of this monitor so dang long today. Oh well, geuss I can be glad it was a test machine. Any pointers out there are appreciated. Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Keith Woodman Technical Coordinator Keith@lightningweb.com Lightningweb LLC pid 7962 (sniffit), uid 0: exited on signal 10 (core dumped) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 22 22:16:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1355414F5E for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:16:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990323061719.PNB5117602.mta2-rme@wocker> for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:17:19 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:15:58 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: O'Reilly books at Amazon Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990323061719.PNB5117602.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I noticed today that Amazon now has an O'Reilly books section: http://www.amazon.com/oreilly-books -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 22 23:25:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from login-2.eunet.no (login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2845A1536C; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:25:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) Received: from login-1.eunet.no (mbendiks@login-1.eunet.no [193.71.71.238]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.0/GN) with ESMTP id IAA19932; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:24:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (mbendiks@localhost) by login-1.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28338; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:24:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) X-Authentication-Warning: login-1.eunet.no: mbendiks owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:24:59 +0100 (CET) From: Marius Bendiksen To: Keith Woodman Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fixit.flp NOW In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > other system users are noticed by the system at all. Even as root trying > to do a passwd fails telling me there is no such user. This is Are you sure you've rebuilt the password-database? IIRC, passwd is just a text-frontend to it, which doesn't represent the real data. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 23 0:38: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E689414D40 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:37:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id AAA77886; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:37:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:37:20 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: announce@bafug.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Headcount for Berkeley BAFUG meeting Message-ID: <19990323003720.A77870@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heads up! I need a head count of people who are planning on attending Thursdays meeting. This is so I'll have some idea how much pizza, soda, and coffee to get. If you could respond by Thursday Noon it would be very helpful. Our normally scheduled hacking will now continue. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 23 10:35:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nefertiti.lightningweb.com (nefertiti.lightningweb.com [198.68.191.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0485815378; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:35:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keith@lightningweb.com) Received: from localhost (keith@localhost) by nefertiti.lightningweb.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA17287; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:37:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:37:15 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Woodman To: Marius Bendiksen Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fixit.flp NOW In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org All is well, The most stupid mistake followed up with the stupidest mail ever. :-) A lesson to be learned.. Just got it all comfy cozy in sinlge user mode, rebuilt the db and rebooted. Doh ! Keith On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Marius Bendiksen wrote: > > other system users are noticed by the system at all. Even as root trying > > to do a passwd fails telling me there is no such user. This is > > Are you sure you've rebuilt the password-database? IIRC, passwd is just a > text-frontend to it, which doesn't represent the real data. > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 23 11:10:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wa.freei.net (Mail1.Wa.FreeI.Net [209.162.144.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DE514E47; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Silvia_Brown6@gte.net) Received: from 209.162.150.235 (dial235.Block3.trm2.FreeI.Net [209.162.150.235]) by mail.wa.freei.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA98111; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:05:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Silvia_Brown6@gte.net) From: Silvia_Brown6@gte.net Message-Id: <199903220605.WAA98111@mail.wa.freei.net> Subject: Find Out What The Future Holds For You? Date: Sun, 21 Mar 99 21:54:38 Pacific Standard Time Reply-To: Silvia_Brown6@gte.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMailPriority: Normal Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org LIVE PERSONAL PSYCHIC! (as seen on T.V.) LEARN TODAY WHAT YOUR FUTURE HOLDS FOR LOVE, FAMILY, AND MONEY. ASTROLOGY CLAIRVOYANCY NUMBEROLOGY TAROT ALL QUESTIONS ANSWERED IMMEDIATELY! REALIZE YOUR DESTINY! CALL RIGHT NOW! 1-900-226-4140 or 1-800-372-3384 for VISA, MC (These are not sex lines!) This message is intended for Psychic Readers, Psychic Users and people who are involved in the $1 Billion Dollar a year Psychic Industry. If this message has reached you in error, please disregard it and accept our apoligies. To be removed from this list, please respond with the subject "remove". Thank You. Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill. LIVE PERSONAL PSYCHIC! (as seen on T.V.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 23 11:28:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745A614E14 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:28:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990323192939.ESZE4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:29:39 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:29:05 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Find Out What The Future Holds For You? Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz In-reply-to: <199903220605.WAA98111@mail.wa.freei.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990323192939.ESZE4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 21 Mar 99, at 21:54, Silvia_Brown6@gte.net wrote: > LIVE PERSONAL PSYCHIC! (as seen on T.V.) Strange you should mention that in the topic. Don't you know you're about to be blacklisted? Speaking of which, this is the second time this address has spammed us. Can we stop that address somehow? It's coming in from FreeI.Net > Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - join CAUCE > (http://www.cauce.org) > Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill. LOL! -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 23 17:48:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46FB214E16; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:48:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from mips.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id CAA05343; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 02:48:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: by mips.rhein-neckar.de id m10Pcj0-000WyPC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Wed, 24 Mar 1999 02:44:54 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 02:44:54 +0100 (CET) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Umlauts In-Reply-To: <19990323225441.54729@uriah.heep.sax.de> References: <19990323081900.52443@uriah.heep.sax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org J Wunsch wrote: [ German umlauted vowel -> vowel + 'e' substitution ] > I don't think other languages use anything like this, It depends on the language. The French just leave off their various diacritical marks if unavailable. > so in case you can't spell Søren Schmidt correctly, it's IMHO best to > call him Soren instead. I can't speak for Søren, but unless he tells me differently, I will consider "Soeren" to be more polite. Check out some dk.* groups with Deja News. It takes about a minute to find several people who use "oe" in their e-mail address or header version of their name but 'ø' in their signature. That 'æ' is expanded to "ae" shouldn't come as a surprise, and 'å' becomes "aa". (Let's move this to -chat.) -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de >H Deutsche Transhumanismus-Mailingliste echo 'subscribe trans-de' | mail majordomo@lists.rhein-neckar.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 23 18: 5:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FBC1153DC for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:04:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 1445 invoked by uid 1001); 24 Mar 1999 02:04:23 -0000 Date: 23 Mar 1999 18:04:23 -0800 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:04:23 -0800 From: Bill Swingle To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: an honor you may not want... (fwd) Message-ID: <19990323180423.A1411@dub.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Steve Price on Tue, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:47:56PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It's interesting that the server of choice is an SGI while FreeBSD is the OS of choice.... -Bill On Tue, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:47:56PM -0600, Steve Price wrote: > Just found the URL for this article. Then mention is on page > 3 of 3 at the very bottom. > > http://www.thestandard.net/articles/display/0,1449,3779,00.html > > Definitely not an honorable mention, but a mention nontheless. > > On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Steve Price wrote: > > # Anyone seen the March 22nd issue of 'The Industry Standard'? > # I got a note from a co-worker that FreeBSD was mentioned in > # there. -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 23 18:46:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6185514C0B for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:45:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA14285; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:29:40 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:29:39 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: Bill Swingle Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: an honor you may not want... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19990323180423.A1411@dub.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23 Mar 1999, Bill Swingle wrote: # It's interesting that the server of choice is an SGI while FreeBSD is # the OS of choice.... That was the part that really caught my eye when I read it. It means we do have a market in the desktop (and not just the server) after all. :) :) # -Bill # # On Tue, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:47:56PM -0600, Steve Price wrote: # > Just found the URL for this article. Then mention is on page # > 3 of 3 at the very bottom. # > # > http://www.thestandard.net/articles/display/0,1449,3779,00.html # > # > Definitely not an honorable mention, but a mention nontheless. # > # > On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Steve Price wrote: # > # > # Anyone seen the March 22nd issue of 'The Industry Standard'? # > # I got a note from a co-worker that FreeBSD was mentioned in # > # there. # # -- # -=| Bill Swingle - # -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson # -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 23 23:21:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6968D14E4B for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:21:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id IAA21240 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:20:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA28159; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:03:54 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from j) Message-ID: <19990324080353.55095@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:03:53 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Umlauts Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <19990323081900.52443@uriah.heep.sax.de> <19990323225441.54729@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Christian Weisgerber on Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 02:44:54AM +0100 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Christian Weisgerber wrote: > Check out some dk.* groups with Deja News. It takes about a minute to > find several people who use "oe" in their e-mail address or header > version of their name but 'ø' in their signature. That 'æ' is expanded > to "ae" shouldn't come as a surprise, and 'å' becomes "aa". I've seen ae and aa in DK before, but not oe so far (aa is even an official alternate IMHO). I'd go with whatever those Danes would like most... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 24 0: 3:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1AA414E30 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:03:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id AAA88901; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:03:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:03:14 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: announce@bafug.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: April BAFUG - San Francisco chapter - Meeting Message-ID: <19990324000314.A88811@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group -- San Francisco BAFUG -- The San Francisco chapter of the Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, April 8th. This months meeting will be held at The Reef in the Mission district of San Francisco. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Agenda: ==> Bob Bruce, Owner of Walnut Creek CDROM, will give a talk on the relationship between Walnut Creek and FreeBSD. Walnut Creek CDROM has been our biggest booster over the years. Aside from pressing all our CDs since Rel. 1.0 and paying for all the computer and network infrastructure we use, they have under written a large part of the cost of development of FreeBSD including paying several key developers salary. He will share his vision of the future of FreeBSD and Walnut Creek. ==> Josef Grosch will talk about BAFUGs plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on April 10th at the Robert Austin Computer show at the Oakland Convention Center. This Install-A-Thon will be held jointly with BALUG (Bay Area Linux Users Group) and CABAL (Consortium of All Bay Area Linux). We will also be holding our traditional Install-A-Thon at the Cow Place in Daly City. The date for this show is April 24th. See http://www.bafug.org/Install.html for more details including directions on how to get to the Cow Palace. ==> Thanks for all the donations of hardware to build BAFUG display & demo machine for use at the Install-a-thons. A big thinks to Whistle Communications for providing us with a very long time loan of a Whistle Interjet for us to use as an FTP server at our Install-A-Thons. Whistle Communications can be found at www.whistle.com ==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the tab will be picked up by Walnut Creek CDROM. Thanks guys! ==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at The Reef in San Francisco. The Reef is located at 3057 17th St, between Folsom & Harrison Streets. There is plenty parking on the street. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. The meeting will end at around 10:00pm which will allow for an hour or so to shmooz. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions: By Muni: Routes 12 Folsom, 22 Fillmore, 33 Stanyan, and 53 Southern Heights stop nearby. By BART: Exit at 16th Street Mission, walk south to 17th Street, turning left (east) and proceeding 4 1/2 short blocks to 3057 17th Street, on the right (south) side. By Car: From the South Bay and Peninsula Take 101 North to San Francisco, Get off at Vermont Ave. exit. Turn left twice on to Mariposa westbound under the freeway. Proceed eight blocks to a right (north) turn onto Harrison where Mariposa dead-ends. Go one block to a left (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the East Bay: Come across the Bay bridge (I-80 westbound) and get off at the 8th street exit, bearing half-left onto Harrison, proceeding nine blocks (curving half-left as Harrison turns southbound and goes under US-101) to a right (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the North Bay: Come across the Golden Gate bridge. Follow 101 which turns into Lombard Stree. At Van Ness Ave. turn right. Continue south on Van Ness until 17th st. Take a left on to 17th. Park where you can. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs http://www.reef.com http://www.bafug.org Contact: Please contact either Nicole Harrington, or Josef Grosch on or before April 8th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. Nicole Harrington can be reached at nicole@mediacity.com Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 24 5:28:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from login-2.eunet.no (login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F97E152FF for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:28:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) Received: from login-1.eunet.no (mbendiks@login-1.eunet.no [193.71.71.238]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.0/GN) with ESMTP id OAA14867; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:28:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (mbendiks@localhost) by login-1.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09717; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:28:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) X-Authentication-Warning: login-1.eunet.no: mbendiks owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:28:09 +0100 (CET) From: Marius Bendiksen To: Dan Langille Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Find Out What The Future Holds For You? In-Reply-To: <19990323192939.ESZE4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Strange you should mention that in the topic. Don't you know you're about > to be blacklisted? Speaking of which, this is the second time this > address has spammed us. Can we stop that address somehow? It's coming in > from FreeI.Net I've seen a lot of spam from irc.freei.net (or whatever it was) lately, too. Maybe we should just drop all of freei.net ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 24 7:33:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6D014CE7 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:33:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11853; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:31:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:31:41 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Gianmarco Giovannelli Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990315102930.00a17e50@194.184.65.4> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > At 21.00 12/03/99 -0600, Licia wrote: > > >Have fun :) I've already put modified versions up, with the gid part removed, > >and may if there's interest, put up another version with expansion of ~ in the > >chroot capability string :) Feel free to modify any and all versions of > >those, or any other source I post on my home site :) > > I'll like very much the ~ expansion :-) > Why not to use it by default ? > The ~ will work now, simply specify the chroot capability in /etc/login.conf as ~ and the user will chroot to their home directory... it should look like this :chroot=~:\ (cut and pasted from the login class I'm testing with :) ) Again, I do know the 2.2.8 patch works, but I have no way to test the (now outdated, no doubt :) ) freebsd-current patch... if anyone uses the current patch on any 3.* or current system, I'd really appreciate a note such as "it works" or "try again" :) Sorry it took me so long to reply, the whole moving thing has delayed everything for me for a bit :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 24 7:36:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F42F14CE7 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:36:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11929; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:36:02 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:36:02 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login In-Reply-To: <199903132103.OAA19502@usr09.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 13 Mar 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Thanks to welcome feedback, I've modified the patches :) no more login group. > > It's all completely based on /etc/login.conf classes now. If there is a > > capability called chroot, the value for it is used as the path to chroot to, > > if there isn't, no chrooting... if there's interest I can add the ~ type > > expansions to allow a single class to be used for multiple users to be > > chrooted to their homedirs (trivial hack :) ) and this will easily allow > > shared chroot environments, although the previous version did too :) > > If it's a path type object, the ~ and $ stuff are already in there, > so if you want to use literal values, you have to escape them (\~), > per the login.conf man page. > Hmm I must just not understand the login_cap functions properly. I tried using login_getpath to get the capability, but it didn't expand the values properly (perhaps because the login process is still setuid root at the time of chroot?) so I've resorted to a simple if to check for a path of just ~ and not worry about expanding ~ in full path names. > Anyway, I think that this probably represents the first useful thing > that login.conf has ever done for anyone (besides killing their > process, running them out of file descriptors, and, in general, not > supporting the SEcureCard stuff. 8-)). > > Good job! I think this stuff should be committed, post-haste! > > (smiles) thank you :) compliments are -always- welcome ;) What's the securecard stuff? (looking interested :) ) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 24 11:35: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8788B14FAE for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:34:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990324193609.OOBI5117602.mta2-rme@wocker>; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:36:09 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Marius Bendiksen Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:34:35 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Find Out What The Future Holds For You? Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990323192939.ESZE4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990324193609.OOBI5117602.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24 Mar 99, at 14:28, Marius Bendiksen wrote: > > Strange you should mention that in the topic. Don't you know you're about > > to be blacklisted? Speaking of which, this is the second time this > > address has spammed us. Can we stop that address somehow? It's coming in > > from FreeI.Net > > I've seen a lot of spam from irc.freei.net (or whatever it was) lately, > too. Maybe we should just drop all of freei.net ? FWIW and FYI: I received the same spam off-list. Complaints sent to freei.net have been unanswered. abuse@freei.net does not exist. Perhaps they can claim 'nobody has ever complained before'... -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 24 11:37:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6270614DC3 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:37:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id UAA17850 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:12:08 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id TAA00813 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:35:03 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199903241835.TAA00813@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Umlauts In-Reply-To: from Christian Weisgerber at "Mar 24, 1999 2:44:54 am" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:35:03 +0100 (CET) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Christian Weisgerber wrote ... > J Wunsch wrote: > > [ German umlauted vowel -> vowel + 'e' substitution ] > > I don't think other languages use anything like this, Wrong. The Dutch also use the Umlaut, but we call it a trema (IRRC). And it gives a quite different pronunciation compared to the German Umlaut rules. Groeten / Cheers, Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl _______________________ Powered by FreeBSD ___ http://www.freebsd.org _____ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 24 13:20:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA0D14D4F for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:20:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01636; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:19:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: Marius Bendiksen , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Find Out What The Future Holds For You? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:34:35 +1200." <19990324193609.OOBI5117602.mta2-rme@wocker> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:19:58 -0800 Message-ID: <1634.922310398@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > FWIW and FYI: I received the same spam off-list. Complaints sent to > freei.net have been unanswered. abuse@freei.net does not exist. Blocked. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 24 18:30:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5682A14E78 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:30:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from mips.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id DAA08728 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 03:29:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: by mips.rhein-neckar.de id m10PzNo-000WyUC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Thu, 25 Mar 1999 02:56:32 +0100 (CET) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: Umlauts Date: 25 Mar 1999 02:56:29 +0100 Message-ID: <7dc54d$g96$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> References: <199903241835.TAA00813@yedi.iaf.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wilko Bulte wrote: > > [ German umlauted vowel -> vowel + 'e' substitution ] > > > I don't think other languages use anything like this, > > Wrong. The Dutch also use the Umlaut, but we call it a trema (IRRC). Jörg's line didn't refer to the umlaut sign itself but rather to the German practice of substituting vowel + 'e' for an umlauted vowel if that character isn't available, e.g. "Jörg" -> "Joerg". Yes, the trema is widely used. Originally from Greek, it appears in French, Spanish, conservative English, etc. The umlaut sign also appears in Swedish, Finnish, Turkish, etc. Strictly speaking, trema aka diaeresis and umlaut sign are different diacritics and don't necessarily share precisely the same glyph, but since even the Unicode people don't differentiate the two, insisting on this fine point is probably moot. The trema is used to indicate that two neighboring vowels are pronounced separately. The umlaut sign, which historically derives from a superscript 'e', indicates a fronting of the base vowel. (And before a Swede pipes up, yes, I know that (å) ä ö are treated as separate letters in Swedish.) -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de LinuxTag '99 - 26./27. Juni, Uni Kaiserslautern - http://www.linuxtag.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 5:21:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat193.155.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.193.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE931511D for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 05:21:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA06872 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:21:35 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:21:35 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Oops...(www.userfriendly.org) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org And it started soooooo well :) http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990325.html Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 5:47: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6016714EF5 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 05:46:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA23119; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:45:25 +0200 (EET) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:45:25 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oops...(www.userfriendly.org) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > And it started soooooo well :) > > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990325.html > Ouch!!! In the case of Linux it's the users who can't agree what is the best but in the case of *BSD it's the daemons? Hey wait - there is just one BSD daemon so the daemon is arguing with itself which is better? Or does (Free/Open)BSD have a separate one? The daemon should be able to decide that arguing with itself is silly and leave it to the user 8-) > Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy > Systems Administrator @ hub.org > primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 9:13:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from geek.grf.ov.com (geek.grf.ov.com [192.251.86.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D4814E50; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:13:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@threespace.com) Received: from pebbles (pebbles.cam.veritas.com [166.98.49.16]) by geek.grf.ov.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA17828; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:13:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903251713.MAA17828@geek.grf.ov.com> X-Sender: ksmm@mail.cybercom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:12:35 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Feature for feature, is there a big difference in the storage requirements of Linux and FreeBSD? That is, would a FreeBSD installation (say 2.2.8) take any more or less space than a comparably configured Linux installation? Thanks in advance for your insight. K.S. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 11: 3:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf24.de (mail.surf24.de [212.62.192.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A8E14DF0; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:02:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@surf24.de) Received: from duffner.surf24.de (surf228.surf24.de [212.62.193.228]) by mail.surf24.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA04024; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:02:41 +0100 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:37:46 +0100 (MEZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars To: The Classiest Man Alive Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903251713.MAA17828@geek.grf.ov.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu 25 Mar, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > Feature for feature, is there a big difference in the storage requirements > of Linux and FreeBSD? That is, would a FreeBSD installation (say 2.2.8) > take any more or less space than a comparably configured Linux installation? I doubt it very much. Once you have the space to install a working and usable (enjoyable !) system, it doesn't matter if one takes 20 MB more or less than the other. I'd guess that with Linux, you can have "better" (in the sense of "more features") 'microinstallations', but this is only relevant to a very small part of the userbase. Definitely not -newbies ;-) > Thanks in advance for your insight. I don't know for sure with the newer linux-kernels, but the old 2.0.x-series could not handle files larger than 2 GB - this is a real problem if you want to have an image of a DVD on you ext2-partition.... FreeBSD has not such a low limit, IIRC cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@surf24.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 11:31:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from stumpy.dannyland.org (danman.isdn.uiuc.edu [192.17.16.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 871CC15031 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:31:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@stumpy.dannyland.org) Received: (qmail 16008 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Mar 1999 19:31:05 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:31:05 -0600 From: dannyman To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oops...(www.userfriendly.org) Message-ID: <19990325133105.A15783@stumpy.dannyland.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from The Hermit Hacker on Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 09:21:35AM -0400 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 09:21:35AM -0400, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > And it started soooooo well :) > > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990325.html This is hilarious. :) -danny -- dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 17: 1:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9695215452 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:01:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-15-98.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.15.98]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA28714 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:01:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA20359 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:00:59 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199903260100.TAA20359@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.peterzale.com/377.html From: David Kelly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:00:59 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >:OK, OK, I *know* he's not *that* Matt Dillon, but still :) >: >:DES >:-- >:Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > Well, shoot! My dream girl's a comic strip character! :-) > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > Yeah, me too. Do they really have women like that at MIT? :-) So will somebody tell me the answer to the riddle at http://www.peterzale.com/vacation.html ? -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 17:17:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.williams.edu (harmony.williams.edu [137.165.4.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7283215087 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:17:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sachs@cs.williams.edu) Received: from bull.cs.williams.edu by williams.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #24595) with ESMTP id <0F960074IGX7FP@williams.edu> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:17:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from hamburger.cs.williams.edu (hamburger [137.165.8.59]) by bull.cs.williams.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA08099 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:17:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sachs@localhost) by hamburger.cs.williams.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02380; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:17:28 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:17:27 -0500 From: Jay Sachs Subject: any sign of these books? To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Face: 6!-I&o^[[HP+0~O~}d2Zf@Pbof:|>j5^*W$QOR"&)JYcHT.@-"AhAXLg3vioV79Ri3JMp/a e3QD@Z$1Ot@'j1/A Lines: 13 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A friend has asked me to help him locate a copy of the following: 1. UNIX User's Reference Manual (URM) 4.3 Berleley Software Distribution Virtual VAX-11 Version, April 1986 2. A Fast File System for UNIX, UNIX System Manager's Manual (SMM) 4.3 Berkeley Software Distribution Virtual VAX-11 Version, April 1986 Anyone have ideas where I might find them? -Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 18:49:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD1D714D21; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:49:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28812; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd028781; Thu Mar 25 19:48:55 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA01921; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:48:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903260248.TAA01921@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars To: ksmm@threespace.com (The Classiest Man Alive) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 02:48:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903251713.MAA17828@geek.grf.ov.com> from "The Classiest Man Alive" at Mar 25, 99 12:12:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Feature for feature, is there a big difference in the storage requirements > of Linux and FreeBSD? That is, would a FreeBSD installation (say 2.2.8) > take any more or less space than a comparably configured Linux installation? > > Thanks in advance for your insight. Both FreeBSD and Linux use ELF format executables, and will have near identical storage requirements; the one exception will be that programs that embed the OS name will take 7 characters for FreeBSD, but only 5 characters for Linux. 8-). Over time, the EXT2FS storage will tend to become more fragmented than FFS storage, due to the way layout is done. If this happens to your Linux machine, you can simply back the system up to tape, wipe the disk, and restore from tape to defragment it and recover the wasted disk space. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 19:11:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D455B15031 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:11:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18060; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:11:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd018037; Thu Mar 25 20:11:17 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA02789; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:11:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903260311.UAA02789@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: http://www.peterzale.com/377.html To: dkelly@HiWAAY.net (David Kelly) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:11:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903260100.TAA20359@nospam.hiwaay.net> from "David Kelly" at Mar 25, 99 07:00:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Yeah, me too. Do they really have women like that at MIT? :-) > > So will somebody tell me the answer to the riddle at > http://www.peterzale.com/vacation.html ? Dunno. The 76th is an engineering battalian. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 19:45: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CAA514D2A; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:45:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32111; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:46:57 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:46:57 -0800 (PST) From: To: Rainer M Duffner Cc: The Classiest Man Alive , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Rainer M Duffner wrote: > On Thu 25 Mar, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > > Feature for feature, is there a big difference in the storage requirements > > of Linux and FreeBSD? That is, would a FreeBSD installation (say 2.2.8) > > take any more or less space than a comparably configured Linux installation? > I doubt it very much. > Once you have the space to install a working and usable > (enjoyable !) system, it doesn't matter if one takes 20 MB more or less > than the other. > I'd guess that with Linux, you can have "better" (in the > sense of "more features") 'microinstallations', but this is only > relevant to a very small part of the userbase. > Definitely not -newbies ;-) You can get a fully functional networkable Linux machine with a web browser (Lynx) and FTP on 2 floppies :-) > > Thanks in advance for your insight. > I don't know for sure with the newer linux-kernels, but the old > 2.0.x-series could not handle files larger than 2 GB - this is a real > problem if you want to have an image of a DVD on you ext2-partition.... > FreeBSD has not such a low limit, IIRC Linux-Alpha doesn't have the 2 gig problem, and the 2.2 series does have patches available to go past the 2 gig limit. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 19:50:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B470C15504; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:50:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id TAA11072; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:48:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:48:34 -0800 (PST) From: rick hamell To: unknown@riverstyx.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > problem if you want to have an image of a DVD on you ext2-partition.... > > FreeBSD has not such a low limit, IIRC > > Linux-Alpha doesn't have the 2 gig problem, and the 2.2 series does have > patches available to go past the 2 gig limit. Which is why I personally don't like Linux. It seems that you're always loading patches to fix little problems. :) Granted FreeBSD has patches too. But when was the last time you needed a patch? :) Anyways, isn't the Linux patch still limited to 8 gigs or so? Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 21: 8:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from charleston.softhome.net (charleston.SoftHome.net [204.144.231.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3BF3E153A9 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:08:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bradley@softhome.net) Received: (qmail 23835 invoked by uid 417); 26 Mar 1999 05:28:59 -0000 Received: from max1-ppp-23.cyberix.com (HELO BillyJoeBob) (207.106.53.202) by smtp.softhome.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 1999 05:28:59 -0000 From: "Brad Benson" To: "Joey Garcia" Cc: Subject: RE: Working in the IT Field - Trials and Tribulations Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:07:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be7746$7c765b20$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <36F3CCA1.DFDCFA29@mediaone.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org some places, even statements like this made as a joke are > > frowned on. Be careful. Your employers might hear about it. > > > > Oh don't worry, I really wouldn't do it. I guess I have been just > frustrated with work that I was thinking malicious thoughts. *grin* > Although, would be interesting to find out what would happen. But right > now I'm more concerned about the NT's security. I want to make sure > that it doesn't have any obvious holes. > You said before the network isn't connected to the Internet. If it's a closed system you shouldn't have to worry a lot about your security on the NT box. Unless you have some skilled and disgruntled employees. I would make sure though, that if you connect the network to the internet that you keep all the Microsoft boxes inside the firewall or protected by a proxy server style configuration. We use SCO MS-NT and FreeBSD on the servers in our agency and they all mesh well, but the only machine directly exposed to the internet is our FreeBSD box. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 21:11:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C94153A9; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:11:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05418; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:14:09 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:14:09 -0800 (PST) From: To: rick hamell Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, rick hamell wrote: > > Linux-Alpha doesn't have the 2 gig problem, and the 2.2 series does have > > patches available to go past the 2 gig limit. > Which is why I personally don't like Linux. It seems that you're > always loading patches to fix little problems. :) Granted FreeBSD has > patches too. But when was the last time you needed a patch? :) Anyways, > isn't the Linux patch still limited to 8 gigs or so? Depends on which patch you're talking about, I think :-) According to Alan, the problem on 32-bit machines was using a signed integer, which limited it to 2 gig. There's a patch to make it unsigned which gives you 4 gig. Alpha machines have 64 bit integers, so the problem is pretty much totally gone there. I believe (but haven't installed for lack of need) there is a patch for 2.2 which is supposed to be moved into the stable kernel sometime soon that completely removes the 32-bit limit. I've never needed a patch, except for adding driver support (for the 3c905b ethernet adapter in 2.0.30) and fixing the various TCP/IP stack holes that were running rampant in 2.0.30 era kernels. I personally only use FreeBSD as a hobby machine. I'd like to use it in production but I haven't got enough FreeBSD knowledge to do that right now. I still can't find any documentation for changes I should make to the configuration/kernel/etc when I want to really push a FreeBSD machine... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 21:41:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8808A14F2C for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:41:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA23866; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:40:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:40:19 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: unknown@riverstyx.net Cc: rick hamell , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [-newbies removed so we can stop cross-posting] On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: # I've never needed a patch, except for adding driver support (for the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ... and then you give two examples of when 'never' happened. # 3c905b ethernet adapter in 2.0.30) and fixing the various TCP/IP stack # holes that were running rampant in 2.0.30 era kernels. # # I personally only use FreeBSD as a hobby machine. I'd like to use it in And alot of us use it for quite a bit more, so what it your point exactly? # production but I haven't got enough FreeBSD knowledge to do that right # now. I still can't find any documentation for changes I should make to # the configuration/kernel/etc when I want to really push a FreeBSD # machine... Please?! I've seen you post several times now and none of them that I have seen have asked any specific questions related to tuning a FreeBSD box. You want to know what knobs to tweak and can't find the answers written up anywhere, then ask. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 22:27:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D32C914E4B for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:27:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09002; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:30:07 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:30:06 -0800 (PST) From: To: Steve Price Cc: rick hamell , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Steve Price wrote: > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: > > # I've never needed a patch, except for adding driver support (for the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ... and then you give two examples of when 'never' happened. Everyone needs driver updates. The 3c905b hadn't even been released when I installed the machine I needed the patch for. I upgraded the hardware and I needed the patch -- hardly a Linux problem. And the infamous TCP/IP problems, which almost everyone has fallen victim to in the past two years. My point was, running Linux doesn't mean patching your machine every couple days to fix problems. I don't know where people get this idea of Linux instability, but it's just not true. > # 3c905b ethernet adapter in 2.0.30) and fixing the various TCP/IP stack > # holes that were running rampant in 2.0.30 era kernels. > # > # I personally only use FreeBSD as a hobby machine. I'd like to use it in > # production but I haven't got enough FreeBSD knowledge to do that right > # now. I still can't find any documentation for changes I should make to > # the configuration/kernel/etc when I want to really push a FreeBSD > # machine... > > Please?! I've seen you post several times now and none of them that I > have seen have asked any specific questions related to tuning a FreeBSD > box. You want to know what knobs to tweak and can't find the answers > written up anywhere, then ask. I want to run a webserver that's going to probably be serving about 400 requests simultaneously on average, but it may spike up to 900 at times. Bandwidth-wise, it'll be moving about 600+k/sec on a PII-450 w/384 megs RAM. There'll be a lot of CGI involved, as well as a MySQL database that's being used for authentication as well as keeping track of a bunch of user accounting data. I tried FreeBSD initially, but it didn't last 10 minutes before coming down. I searched on the web and checked links from the FreeBSD homepage, as well as a couple other FreeBSD related pages that I found, but found no information on tuning FreeBSD machines. The HOWTOs for FreeBSD are minimal. There aren't many users out there with easily accessible information on what they've done to make it work. What do I need to do to make it work? Increase the number of tasks? Can I just use ulimit, or do I need to change stuff in the kernel? I noticed some stuff in there limiting the per-user tasks to 64, but that didn't look reasonable, and it looked like it got ignored anyway, so I don't know what bearing that had on the system. How can I increase the maximum number of file descriptors/inodes? Are there any changes I should make to the memory management stuff, and if so where and how? What else needs to be done to a FreeBSD machine to allow it to handle heavy load? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 22:38:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E454314D77 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:38:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id AAA08389; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:38:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:38:16 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: unknown@riverstyx.net Cc: rick hamell , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: # Everyone needs driver updates. The 3c905b hadn't even been released when # I installed the machine I needed the patch for. I upgraded the hardware # and I needed the patch -- hardly a Linux problem. And the infamous TCP/IP # problems, which almost everyone has fallen victim to in the past two # years. My point was, running Linux doesn't mean patching your machine # every couple days to fix problems. I don't know where people get this # idea of Linux instability, but it's just not true. I certainly never said that, though I do believe that FreeBSD is more stable than Linux for a variety of other reasons. :) Of course, you know that arguing the stability of Linux vs. FreeBSD on a FreeBSD won't necessarily always get unbiased remarks in response. # I want to run a webserver that's going to probably be serving about 400 # requests simultaneously on average, but it may spike up to 900 at times. # Bandwidth-wise, it'll be moving about 600+k/sec on a PII-450 w/384 megs # RAM. There'll be a lot of CGI involved, as well as a MySQL database that's # being used for authentication as well as keeping track of a bunch of user # accounting data. I tried FreeBSD initially, but it didn't last 10 minutes # before coming down. # # I searched on the web and checked links from the FreeBSD homepage, as well # as a couple other FreeBSD related pages that I found, but found no # information on tuning FreeBSD machines. The HOWTOs for FreeBSD are # minimal. There aren't many users out there with easily accessible # information on what they've done to make it work. # # What do I need to do to make it work? Increase the number of tasks? Can I # just use ulimit, or do I need to change stuff in the kernel? I noticed # some stuff in there limiting the per-user tasks to 64, but that didn't # look reasonable, and it looked like it got ignored anyway, so I don't know # what bearing that had on the system. How can I increase the maximum # number of file descriptors/inodes? Are there any changes I should make to # the memory management stuff, and if so where and how? What else needs to # be done to a FreeBSD machine to allow it to handle heavy load? I can look around and see if I can drum up these answers. But if you don't mind I'd like to forward these questions to the -isp list too to see if someone with more knowledge than myself can help out. Is that ok? -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 22:42:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08CE014D77 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:42:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id WAA16480; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:40:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:40:23 -0800 (PST) From: rick hamell To: Steve Price Cc: unknown@riverstyx.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I certainly never said that, though I do believe that FreeBSD is > more stable than Linux for a variety of other reasons. :) Of course, > you know that arguing the stability of Linux vs. FreeBSD on a FreeBSD > won't necessarily always get unbiased remarks in response. I have to agree though... I'm kinda past being a newbie myself. Now I need a way to learn the more advanced stuff. 'We' are desperatly in need of good documenation....:) Rick ---- "Religion exists because man can't belive that he's nothing more then a random accident." http://www.grendal.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 22:44: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip174.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.174]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D8714C1B; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:44:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA03461; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:43:32 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chris) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:43:28 -0600 From: Chris Costello To: Mike Meyer Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what does stable mean?6 Message-ID: <19990326004328.A3156@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <199903260406.VAA14834@chad.anasazi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Mike Meyer on Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 10:24:31PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 26, 1999, Mike Meyer wrote: > It's ok - just make sure to do the Losedos bashing in private, > otherwise people will think you're a fanatic. > > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Chad R. Larson wrote: > > Any WinNT boxes doing =real= work that have been up for over four > > months? > > Hmm - there's a bug in Windows 95/98 that causes the system to freeze > at 57 days. Maybe that's in NT? It's not in NT, and it's 49 days. Replies set to freebsd-chat (if I get it right). > > > We had an OLTP system (a Pyramid running SysVr4) that ran for > > slightly over a year (370 days) processing a half million > > transactions a day (or so). It came down because we had to reboot > > it for an application software upgrade. > > My favorite story is the bug report4.X BSD) that "uptime" formatting > was broken if you had been up for more than 999 days.... > > -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 22:55:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC5EA1514D for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:55:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by mail.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:45:50 -0800 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Mike Meyer" , Subject: RE: what does stable mean?6 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:55:15 -0800 Message-ID: <000601be7755$9a34f540$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Chad R. Larson wrote: > > Any WinNT boxes doing =real= work that have been up for over four > > months? chat.cnn.com (NT4.0, SP3) handled about 700 concurrent TCP connections every day. It was up stable for over 100 days until a power failure took it out. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 23:10:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A3614C2F for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:10:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10946; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:12:35 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:12:35 -0800 (PST) From: To: Steve Price Cc: rick hamell , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Steve Price wrote: > I certainly never said that, though I do believe that FreeBSD is > more stable than Linux for a variety of other reasons. :) Of course, > you know that arguing the stability of Linux vs. FreeBSD on a FreeBSD > won't necessarily always get unbiased remarks in response. I'm trying to avoid an OS war, mostly because everyone'll yell at me (and I'm not exactly on home turf here :-)) However, I've used a fair number of operating systems, and Linux really does appear to have a more rapid learning curve. There's so much more available documentation out there for Linux... > # I want to run a webserver that's going to probably be serving about 400 > # requests simultaneously on average, but it may spike up to 900 at times. > # Bandwidth-wise, it'll be moving about 600+k/sec on a PII-450 w/384 megs > # RAM. There'll be a lot of CGI involved, as well as a MySQL database that's > # being used for authentication as well as keeping track of a bunch of user > # accounting data. I tried FreeBSD initially, but it didn't last 10 minutes > # before coming down. > # > # I searched on the web and checked links from the FreeBSD homepage, as well > # as a couple other FreeBSD related pages that I found, but found no > # information on tuning FreeBSD machines. The HOWTOs for FreeBSD are > # minimal. There aren't many users out there with easily accessible > # information on what they've done to make it work. > # > # What do I need to do to make it work? Increase the number of tasks? Can I > # just use ulimit, or do I need to change stuff in the kernel? I noticed > # some stuff in there limiting the per-user tasks to 64, but that didn't > # look reasonable, and it looked like it got ignored anyway, so I don't know > # what bearing that had on the system. How can I increase the maximum > # number of file descriptors/inodes? Are there any changes I should make to > # the memory management stuff, and if so where and how? What else needs to > # be done to a FreeBSD machine to allow it to handle heavy load? > > I can look around and see if I can drum up these answers. But if you > don't mind I'd like to forward these questions to the -isp list too > to see if someone with more knowledge than myself can help out. Is that > ok? Hey, go ahead. I'd love to know the answers to those questions. I administer a lot of high-bandwidth machines, and anything I can do to make them work smoother is in my best interest. I'm not afraid of change, I'm just afraid of unprepared, unresearched, undocumented, unsupported change :> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 25 23:21:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C308153FC for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:21:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11468; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:23:59 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:23:58 -0800 (PST) From: To: rick hamell Cc: Steve Price , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, rick hamell wrote: > > I certainly never said that, though I do believe that FreeBSD is > > more stable than Linux for a variety of other reasons. :) Of course, > > you know that arguing the stability of Linux vs. FreeBSD on a FreeBSD > > won't necessarily always get unbiased remarks in response. > I have to agree though... I'm kinda past being a newbie myself. > Now I need a way to learn the more advanced stuff. 'We' are desperatly in > need of good documenation....:) Yes! I'd even write some of it, if I could only find the info in the first place... Look at the HOWTOs that Linux has available. All operating system pros/cons aside, I can find out how to do almost anything from that hunk of text files in 5 minutes. FreeBSD? I see 12 tutorials, a skeletal handbook, and an equally skeletal FAQ. The kernel didn't come with much documentation either. There's 2.4 megs of text in the Documentation directory of the Linux kernel describing how pretty much everything works. I feel pretty comfortable screwing around in the Linux kernel source, 'coz it generally tells me what everything does. If you read those docs they give you a lot of information on things that you might have to do to the server if it needs to handle a lot of load too... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 2:19:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A281114E50 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 02:19:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 19774 invoked from network); 26 Mar 1999 10:19:16 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 1999 10:19:16 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id FAA00733; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 05:19:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903261019.FAA00733@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: from rick hamell at "Mar 25, 99 07:48:34 pm" To: hamellr@dsinw.com (rick hamell) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 05:19:14 -0500 (EST) Cc: unknown@riverstyx.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org rick hamell said: > > > > problem if you want to have an image of a DVD on you ext2-partition.... > > > FreeBSD has not such a low limit, IIRC > > > > Linux-Alpha doesn't have the 2 gig problem, and the 2.2 series does have > > patches available to go past the 2 gig limit. > > Which is why I personally don't like Linux. It seems that you're > always loading patches to fix little problems. :) Granted FreeBSD has > patches too. But when was the last time you needed a patch? :) Anyways, > isn't the Linux patch still limited to 8 gigs or so? > IMO, it is *silly* that Linux doesn't support large files correctly. If it doesn't support large files on an X86, then it doesn't support large files. There was alot of pressure from the user and developer base when FreeBSD didn't properly support large files, and I am surprised that either the Linux base hasn't pressured for proper support for large files, or the Linux developers can't figure out how to do it. (I sure hope that it isn't arrogance on their part that it isn't "needed.") -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 3: 2:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5711015023 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:02:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA19797; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 02:45:08 -0800 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 02:45:08 -0800 (PST) From: To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: <199903261019.FAA00733@y.dyson.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, John S. Dyson wrote: > rick hamell said: > > > > > > problem if you want to have an image of a DVD on you ext2-partition.... > > > > FreeBSD has not such a low limit, IIRC > > > > > > Linux-Alpha doesn't have the 2 gig problem, and the 2.2 series does have > > > patches available to go past the 2 gig limit. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > Which is why I personally don't like Linux. It seems that you're > > always loading patches to fix little problems. :) Granted FreeBSD has > > patches too. But when was the last time you needed a patch? :) Anyways, > > isn't the Linux patch still limited to 8 gigs or so? > > > IMO, it is *silly* that Linux doesn't support large files correctly. If > it doesn't support large files on an X86, then it doesn't support large > files. There was alot of pressure from the user and developer base when > FreeBSD didn't properly support large files, and I am surprised that > either the Linux base hasn't pressured for proper support for large files, > or the Linux developers can't figure out how to do it. (I sure hope that > it isn't arrogance on their part that it isn't "needed.") Don't be intentionally ignorant. As I stated above, there are patches. Logically, one might take that to mean that Linux developers can indeed figure out how to do it. Fanaticism is soooo irritating. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 3:29:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 53A3E14D5B for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:29:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (qmail 17675 invoked from network); 26 Mar 1999 11:29:34 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 1999 11:29:34 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA08569; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:29:33 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199903261129.GAA08569@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: from "unknown@riverstyx.net" at "Mar 26, 99 02:45:08 am" To: unknown@riverstyx.net Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:29:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > > IMO, it is *silly* that Linux doesn't support large files correctly. If > > it doesn't support large files on an X86, then it doesn't support large > > files. There was alot of pressure from the user and developer base when > > FreeBSD didn't properly support large files, and I am surprised that > > either the Linux base hasn't pressured for proper support for large files, > > or the Linux developers can't figure out how to do it. (I sure hope that > > it isn't arrogance on their part that it isn't "needed.") > > Don't be intentionally ignorant. As I stated above, there are patches. > Logically, one might take that to mean that Linux developers can indeed > figure out how to do it. Fanaticism is soooo irritating. > Well, why isn't it in the distribution? Why has it taken soooo long? The key is that I listened to the user base, and did some seriously grungy programming. There was little elitism, but simply to do what was needed. Of course, they know how to do it :-), and of course the user base has wanted it (look at the mailing lists/netnews over the last several years.) The humor is in the attitude that has kept the right thing from happening. Fanaticism with regards to using an OS whose developers won't do what is needed is also irritating. Maybe they are now coming aware with real applications being used now. FreeBSD users exposed the issue almost right away, and therefore the problem had to be fixed. There was no choice, and no arrogance. FreeBSD (in general) should be proud about the consideration that the developers had given to the user base. From that viewpoint, it is not bad that the developers should feel happy about the long term decisions made, and FreeBSD development being mired in short term expediency. In fact, the FreeBSD solution has been being discussed on the Linux mailing lists, and wonder if they looked at what we did? It is much easier to copy a design, than to actually think... It seems that fanaticism is where an inferior decision is being made, whilst a correct solution already exists :-). A little verbal sparring is nowhere near the insanity of wasting effort with reimplementation. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 3:52: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CED014DD3 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:52:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24085; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:48:57 -0800 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:48:57 -0800 (PST) From: To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: dyson@iquest.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: <199903261129.GAA08569@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, John S. Dyson wrote: > > Don't be intentionally ignorant. As I stated above, there are patches. > > Logically, one might take that to mean that Linux developers can indeed > > figure out how to do it. Fanaticism is soooo irritating. > > > Well, why isn't it in the distribution? Why has it taken soooo long? The > key is that I listened to the user base, and did some seriously grungy > programming. There was little elitism, but simply to do what was needed. > > Of course, they know how to do it :-), and of course the user base has > wanted it (look at the mailing lists/netnews over the last several > years.) The humor is in the attitude that has kept the right thing > from happening. > > Fanaticism with regards to using an OS whose developers won't do what > is needed is also irritating. Maybe they are now coming aware with real > applications being used now. FreeBSD users exposed the issue almost > right away, and therefore the problem had to be fixed. There was no > choice, and no arrogance. > > FreeBSD (in general) should be proud about the consideration that the > developers had given to the user base. From that viewpoint, it is not > bad that the developers should feel happy about the long term decisions > made, and FreeBSD development being mired in short term expediency. In > fact, the FreeBSD solution has been being discussed on the Linux mailing > lists, and wonder if they looked at what we did? It is much easier to > copy a design, than to actually think... > > It seems that fanaticism is where an inferior decision is being made, > whilst a correct solution already exists :-). A little verbal sparring > is nowhere near the insanity of wasting effort with reimplementation. Do I look like Linus? Well, lack of photo notwithstanding, I don't, but that's beside the point. The large file patch has been available for quite some time now, but it happens to be in beta -- I'm assuming that nobody's found a significant need for it, or if they have they haven't given any feedback. Since nobody's really talking about it, it's not really a priority, is it? AFAIK, most of the kernel development in Linux has been in the networking area because that's where all the interesting development is right now. Regardless, a working solution does exist for Linux, and has existed for a while. Why it's not in the distribution is a question for the source tree maintainers, so I'm not going to argue that further. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 3:53:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7FFC514DD4 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:53:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (qmail 10366 invoked from network); 26 Mar 1999 11:52:50 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 1999 11:52:50 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA08642; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:52:50 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199903261152.GAA08642@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: from "unknown@riverstyx.net" at "Mar 26, 99 03:48:57 am" To: unknown@riverstyx.net Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:52:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Do I look like Linus? Well, lack of photo notwithstanding, I don't, but > that's beside the point. The large file patch has been available for ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > quite some time now, but it happens to be in beta -- I'm assuming that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > nobody's found a significant need for it, or if they have they haven't > given any feedback. Since nobody's really talking about it, it's > not really a priority, is it? AFAIK, most of the kernel development in > Linux has been in the networking area because that's where all the > interesting development is right now. > > Regardless, a working solution does exist for Linux, and has existed for a > while. Why it's not in the distribution is a question for the source tree > maintainers, so I'm not going to argue that further. > Then what is the reason for the maintainers not adopting some fixes? The need for large file support isn't a feature, it is a requirement. Maybe Linux isn't being used in the big applications that FreeBSD was 2-3yrs ago? I had LOTS of pressure to make it work, and am quite surprised that Linus hasn't. (That pressure was second only to JKH's pressure for my bounce buffer hack.) Patches aren't considered to be part of FreeBSD, and the existance of a "patch" for a serious feature would be a short term matter only. The languishing of a serious patch for a long time questions the real use of Linux in real (large) applications. Chopping up files for database applications is a hack, and an OS that forces that (esp one that is being currently developed) has questionable guidance. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 4:42:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E6014A14 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 04:42:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA42629; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:41:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Jay Sachs Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: any sign of these books? References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 26 Mar 1999 13:41:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jay Sachs's message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:17:27 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jay Sachs writes: > 2. A Fast File System for UNIX, UNIX System Manager's Manual (SMM) 4.3 > Berkeley Software Distribution Virtual VAX-11 Version, April 1986 /usr/share/doc/smm/05.fastfs/paper.ascii.gz DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 4:56:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat193.155.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.193.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9A415145 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 04:56:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19331; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:56:14 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:56:14 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: dannyman Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oops...(www.userfriendly.org) In-Reply-To: <19990325133105.A15783@stumpy.dannyland.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, dannyman wrote: > On Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 09:21:35AM -0400, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > > > And it started soooooo well :) > > > > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990325.html > > This is hilarious. :) Ya, I had a friend point it out to me the moment they started to sway from Linux *grin* I'm waiting to see when/how they introduce NetBSD next :) Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 6:53:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E0215548 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:53:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA29470; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:37:53 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:37:53 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: rick hamell Cc: unknown@riverstyx.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, rick hamell wrote: # > I certainly never said that, though I do believe that FreeBSD is # > more stable than Linux for a variety of other reasons. :) Of course, # > you know that arguing the stability of Linux vs. FreeBSD on a FreeBSD # > won't necessarily always get unbiased remarks in response. # # I have to agree though... I'm kinda past being a newbie myself. # Now I need a way to learn the more advanced stuff. 'We' are desperatly in # need of good documenation....:) And here is where we as a volunteer project need your help. Pick any part of the system, play around with it, tweak some knobs, write up what you've learned and send it to us. :) # # Rick # # # # ---- "Religion exists because man can't belive that he's nothing more # then a random accident." # # http://www.grendal.org # # To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 7: 1:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFB9E15064 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:01:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA02342; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:45:52 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:45:52 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: unknown@riverstyx.net Cc: rick hamell , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: # I'm trying to avoid an OS war, mostly because everyone'll yell at me (and # I'm not exactly on home turf here :-)) However, I've used a fair number # of operating systems, and Linux really does appear to have a more rapid # learning curve. There's so much more available documentation out there # for Linux... So help us write some documentation then. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 7: 8:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from csmd2.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (prinz-atm.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De [141.44.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A885D15063 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:08:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jesse@mail.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De) Received: from espe.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (jesse@espe [141.44.21.16]) by csmd2.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21300 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:08:19 +0100 (MET) Received: (from jesse@localhost) by espe.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id QAA07177; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:08:09 +0100 (MET) From: Roland Jesse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14075.41689.237389.933255@cs.uni-magdeburg.de> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:08:09 +0100 (MET) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Why no FreeBSD coffee mugs? X-Mailer: VM 6.70 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: jesse@mail.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De X-Pgp-Fingerprint: 5D 08 5A E3 B4 AA 68 C1 FF 67 06 29 62 DD 9A D7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I do have my "Power to serve" T-Shirt, I do have the little FreeBSD plate on my computer case and I do have a little FreeBSD pin on my coat. What I don't have, though, is a FreeBSD coffee mug - neither at home nor at the office and I just feel so incredibly bad about it. ;) Does anybody here know why there are no mugs available at the FreeBSD Mall? Is there some place else where to get them, preferable with the "Power to server" logo? Best, Roland To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 7:31:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8CC15131; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:31:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zen@buddhist.com) Received: from WhizKid (r37.bfm.org [208.18.213.133]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id KAA22063; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:30:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990326093033.00919230@mail.bfm.org> X-Sender: stanislav@mail.bfm.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:30:33 -0600 To: From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 21:14 25-03-1999 -0800, unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: >I personally only use FreeBSD as a hobby machine. I'd like to use it in >production but I haven't got enough FreeBSD knowledge to do that right >now. I still can't find any documentation for changes I should make to >the configuration/kernel/etc when I want to really push a FreeBSD >machine... I share your sentiments, Unknown of River Styx. To me FreeBSD is largely a big intellectual excercise. A powerful OS to which I dedicate 8 Gig of disk space, while I only dedicate 3 Gig to Windows. But when I actually want to accomplish something, I have no choice but to boot Windows. Not because I like it but because I know how to use it. And when I don't, I can always figure it out. Under FreeBSD (and, I suppose Unix in general), the solution is no doubt available and probably more powerful, but it always requires me to use some cryptically named command. Man pages are of little help to me: First of all, I would need to know the name of the command to even get to the man page. And even when I do, it seems the man page is always written in some foreign language that only outwardly resembles English. Apropos usually does not help me much either. Just days ago I have installed XFree86 3.3.3.1. Its interface is reminiscent of Windows 1.0, and it locks up my system either immediately or in a few minutes (mouse cursor disappears, ctl-alt-backspace does not work), and the only way out is by turning the system off, ouch). No doubt there is a simple fix, if I only knew what it was. :-) (I kinda suspect that I need more RAM, I only have 8 Meg, although that is supposed to be enough.) Despite all of that, I am sticking with FreeBSD. Some day, I'll learn how to use it. :-) It is a very steep learning curve, though! Not that this has anything to do with the subject line. I suspect the other OS mentioned there would be even harder for me to learn. Maybe I'm just getting old (will turn 49 next month). Computers were so much simpler when I was 15! Adam --- Want to design your own web counter? Get GCL 2.10 from http://www.whizkidtech.net/gcl/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 7:51: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rascal.honk.org (cr523413-a.wlfdle1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.177.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A3914E95; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:50:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mpoulin@rascal.honk.org) Received: from localhost (mpoulin@localhost) by rascal.honk.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA15158; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:50:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mpoulin@rascal.honk.org) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:50:29 -0500 (EST) From: Marty Poulin To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: unknown@riverstyx.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990326093033.00919230@mail.bfm.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > But when I actually want to accomplish something, I have no choice but to > boot Windows. Not because I like it but because I know how to use it. And > when I don't, I can always figure it out. You'd be surprised what you can get away with without having to resort to Windows. These days the only thing I need to boot down to microsoft for is to surf the web using all those funky multimedia plugins that haven't been ported to BSD (yet). And the odd game. > > Under FreeBSD (and, I suppose Unix in general), the solution is no doubt > available and probably more powerful, but it always requires me to use some > cryptically named command. Man pages are of little help to me: First of > all, I would need to know the name of the command to even get to the man > page. And even when I do, it seems the man page is always written in some > foreign language that only outwardly resembles English. Apropos usually > does not help me much either. > I agree, it can be a challenge to find answers at times, but that's where the archives and mailing lists and FAQ's come in really handy - there is no way I would have accomplished a fraction of what I have done if it wasn't for all of the online help. > Just days ago I have installed XFree86 3.3.3.1. Its interface is > reminiscent of Windows 1.0, and it locks up my system either immediately or > in a few minutes (mouse cursor disappears, ctl-alt-backspace does not > work), and the only way out is by turning the system off, ouch). No doubt > there is a simple fix, if I only knew what it was. :-) (I kinda suspect > that I need more RAM, I only have 8 Meg, although that is supposed to be > enough.) > Sounds like you need to experiment with some window managers. The default one that comes with X (twm) is about the ugliest, most basic one I have ever seen. Totally geared towards "old-school" command-line Unix types. Check out www.afterstep.org, www.windowmaker.org, and when you upgrade your RAM, I recommend taking a look at KDE - a very "windows-ish" Desktop Environment that I have come to really like. (www.kde.org) > Despite all of that, I am sticking with FreeBSD. Some day, I'll learn how > to use it. :-) It is a very steep learning curve, though! Hey, keep it up! It really is worth it. > > Not that this has anything to do with the subject line. I suspect the other > OS mentioned there would be even harder for me to learn. Maybe I'm just > getting old (will turn 49 next month). Computers were so much simpler when > I was 15! Heh - back in the days when "GUI" meant that someone spilled their coffee on the punch cards... M. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 8:56:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 47E33155A9 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:56:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 62220 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Mar 1999 16:56:15 -0000 Date: 26 Mar 1999 08:56:15 -0800 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:56:15 -0800 From: Bill Swingle To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Why no FreeBSD coffee mugs? Message-ID: <19990326085615.C61820@dub.net> References: <14075.41689.237389.933255@cs.uni-magdeburg.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <14075.41689.237389.933255@cs.uni-magdeburg.de>; from Roland Jesse on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 04:08:09PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hrmm, I know some one that works at SSC (the Linux Journal ppl). One of her co-workers has a FreeBSD mug on her desk. I have't seen it but if there are some out there would like to get my hands on one. ;) -Bill On Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 04:08:09PM +0100, Roland Jesse wrote: > Hi, > > I do have my "Power to serve" T-Shirt, I do have the little FreeBSD > plate on my computer case and I do have a little FreeBSD pin on my > coat. > > What I don't have, though, is a FreeBSD coffee mug - neither at home > nor at the office and I just feel so incredibly bad about it. ;) > > Does anybody here know why there are no mugs available at the FreeBSD > Mall? Is there some place else where to get them, preferable with the > "Power to server" logo? > > Best, > Roland > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 10:23:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3F415690 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:23:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu) Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) Ident [ewayte] by pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id B9511346D; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:20:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:20:01 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Wayte To: Jay Sachs Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: any sign of these books? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If the 4.4BSD manual would do, you might try Usenix (www.usenix.org). They may still have some of the 4.4BSD manuals around. Last I heard, O'Reilly is out of stock with no plans to reprint the 4.4BSD manuals. I purchased my set of 4.3 manuals from a Ph.D. student at UCF many, many years ago... Before O'Reilly sold all their stock, I managed to pick up the entire 4.4 set, including 4.4BSD-Lite on CD. You may want to try some of the used book vendors (www.powells.com) or check with some of the computer oriented booksellers (www.clbooks.com) for help in tracking down the 4.3 manuals. Good luck in your quest! Eric Wayte Database Administrator University of Central Florida ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jay Sachs wrote: > Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:17:27 -0500 > From: Jay Sachs > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: any sign of these books? > > > A friend has asked me to help him locate a copy of the following: > > 1. UNIX User's Reference Manual (URM) 4.3 Berleley Software > Distribution Virtual VAX-11 Version, April 1986 > > 2. A Fast File System for UNIX, UNIX System Manager's Manual (SMM) 4.3 > Berkeley Software Distribution Virtual VAX-11 Version, April 1986 > > > Anyone have ideas where I might find them? > > -Jay > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 10:57:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D5614D77 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:57:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25162; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:56:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id MAA20890; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:56:19 -0600 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id MAA14323; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:56:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:56:18 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199903261856.MAA14323@free.pcs> To: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.peterzale.com/377.html X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article you write: >> Yeah, me too. Do they really have women like that at MIT? :-) >> >> So will somebody tell me the answer to the riddle at >> http://www.peterzale.com/vacation.html ? > >Dunno. The 76th is an engineering battalian. I have no idea either, but I think you meant the the 86th Army of Indiana, which is an engineering battalion. It could be the 76th Fighter Squadron of the 23rd Fighter group, 14th AF. Or VC-76, of the Navy. I have no idea what the strip is referring to. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 12:44:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD56914FC4 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:44:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id FAA11114; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 05:44:09 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36FBF133.312D3407@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 05:42:27 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: SETI@Home Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anyone wants to make a guess as to what constitutes as "FreeBSD (static link)" or "FreeBSD (dynamic link)" (SETI@Home OS options for FreeBSD)? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "What kind of psychologist laughs at her patients?" "I don't laugh at all of them." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 15:28:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93BF11514E for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:28:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: from bb-b1-11a (ppp116.pm3-0.pdx.dsinw.com [207.149.41.116]) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11648; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:26:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:26:22 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: Steve Price Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@dsinw.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > # > I certainly never said that, though I do believe that FreeBSD is > # > more stable than Linux for a variety of other reasons. :) Of course, > # > you know that arguing the stability of Linux vs. FreeBSD on a FreeBSD > # > won't necessarily always get unbiased remarks in response. > # > # I have to agree though... I'm kinda past being a newbie myself. > # Now I need a way to learn the more advanced stuff. 'We' are desperatly in > # need of good documenation....:) > > And here is where we as a volunteer project need your help. Pick > any part of the system, play around with it, tweak some knobs, > write up what you've learned and send it to us. :) I have been working on it. :) My problem is that I'm am still from the DOS world. I have a hard time thinking like a Unix person still, mostly because I don't know how to do so. Secondly, pretty much jumping in feet first I know I'm making mistakes that may cause problems down the road, i.e. when I install a package, where should I download the file too? Does it matter? Where should I untar it too? How much swap space is enough? Those are the kinds of questions I have. I've read a few system administrator books. Mostly I learned to do regular backups and to make sure I have adequete power backup system. Is there a Zen for Unix Administrators? :) Rick www.grendal.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 15:41:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B5D14D25 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:41:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA11442; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:41:33 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:41:32 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: Rick Hamell Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Rick Hamell wrote: # # > And here is where we as a volunteer project need your help. Pick # > any part of the system, play around with it, tweak some knobs, # > write up what you've learned and send it to us. :) # # I have been working on it. :) My problem is that I'm am still from Great! # the DOS world. I have a hard time thinking like a Unix person still, # mostly because I don't know how to do so. Secondly, pretty much jumping in # feet first I know I'm making mistakes that may cause problems down the # road, We've all been there. I'm still there is many respects and I have been using Unix for a long time. The key is to not get discouraged. # i.e. when I install a package, where should I download the file too? I usually put mine in /usr/ports/packages/All. # Does it matter? Not really. Though if you ever decide to build packages yourself the default .mk files will put things in /usr/ports/packages/*. # Where should I untar it too? You don't need to untar it, pkgadd(1) will do that for your. In fact, there are a whole host of package management tools that make life alot easier. # How much swap space is enough? Enough for what? # Those are the kinds of questions I have. I've read a few system # administrator books. Mostly I learned to do regular backups and to make # sure I have adequete power backup system. Is there a Zen for Unix # Administrators? :) Stored away in many thousands of Unix sysadmins heads, but not on paper anywhere that I know of. Though I've heard good things about Greg Lehey's book. # # # Rick # # www.grendal.org # # # To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 16:36:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32EAB153F3 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:36:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA12341; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:05:48 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA52673; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:05:47 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990327110547.S425@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:05:47 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Ovens , remy@synx.com Cc: wes@softweyr.com, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Bearded and hairy UNIX sysadmins (was: For French readers: Nice article in 'LMI') References: <199903261308.OAA12081@rt2.synx.com> <36FB890E.2178904E@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <36FB890E.2178904E@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 01:18:06PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 26 March 1999 at 13:18:06 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > Remy Nonnenmacher wrote: >> >> On 25 Mar, Wes Peters wrote: >>> Mark Ovens wrote: >>>> "Most powerful and most stable. And it is not the opinion of the >>>> only bearded and hairy system administrators swearing only by the >>>> Unix free" >>> >>> Hey, that's ME they're talking about there... > > Ah, so it was you in the picture that Greg Lehey posted a few days ago > (in the thread about dressing up in Daemon costumes) ;-) Nope, as I said, that one was a core team member. And nobody has come up with who he might be. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 17:20:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B206914D12 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:20:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA12537 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:49:46 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA52758 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:49:45 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990327114945.W425@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:49:45 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Jesus is back! (was: subscribe) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is this a troll? Greg ----- Forwarded message from Jesus Monroy ----- > Delivered-To: freebsd-mozilla@freebsd.org > Date: 26 Mar 99 17:31:17 MST > To: freebsd-mozilla@FreeBSD.ORG > X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.30) > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Precedence: bulk > X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by allegro.lemis.com id LAA12334 > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-mozilla" in the body of the message ----- End forwarded message ----- -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 17:45:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E1B14C98 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:45:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA12676; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:15:31 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA52902; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:15:29 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990327121529.X425@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:15:29 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Bill Swingle , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Why no FreeBSD coffee mugs? References: <14075.41689.237389.933255@cs.uni-magdeburg.de> <19990326085615.C61820@dub.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990326085615.C61820@dub.net>; from Bill Swingle on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 08:56:15AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 26 March 1999 at 8:56:15 -0800, Bill Swingle wrote: > On Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 04:08:09PM +0100, Roland Jesse wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I do have my "Power to serve" T-Shirt, I do have the little FreeBSD >> plate on my computer case and I do have a little FreeBSD pin on my >> coat. >> >> What I don't have, though, is a FreeBSD coffee mug - neither at home >> nor at the office and I just feel so incredibly bad about it. ;) >> >> Does anybody here know why there are no mugs available at the FreeBSD >> Mall? Is there some place else where to get them, preferable with the >> "Power to server" logo? > > Hrmm, I know some one that works at SSC (the Linux Journal ppl). One of > her co-workers has a FreeBSD mug on her desk. I have't seen it but if > there are some out there would like to get my hands on one. ;) WC made some a while back--about 3 years ago, I think. I have a couple. They stopped it because of the excessively high breakage rate. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 18: 5:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 322B114D83 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:05:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11369; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:05:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Bill Swingle , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Why no FreeBSD coffee mugs? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:15:29 +1030." <19990327121529.X425@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:05:22 -0800 Message-ID: <11367.922500322@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org WC is also working on bringing back the mugs, though this time in stainless steel instead of the far more breakable ceramic. More details as I myself get ahold of them. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 18:36: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from icicle.winternet.com (icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D0914FF2 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:35:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com) Received: (from adm@localhost) by icicle.winternet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19734; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:35:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from tundra.winternet.com(198.174.169.11) by icicle.winternet.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019718; Fri, 26 Mar 99 20:35:15 -0600 Received: (from nrahlstr@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA09762; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:35:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990326203514.A9753@winternet.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:35:14 -0600 From: Nathan Ahlstrom To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why no FreeBSD coffee mugs? References: <19990327121529.X425@lemis.com> <11367.922500322@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <11367.922500322@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 06:05:22PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > WC is also working on bringing back the mugs, though this time in > stainless steel instead of the far more breakable ceramic. More > details as I myself get ahold of them. > > - Jordan What about posters? A few of those would be pretty dang cool to hang on my cube wall. -- Nathan Ahlstrom nrahlstr@winternet.com http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 18:51:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F96E14C97 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:51:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11516; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:51:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Nathan Ahlstrom Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why no FreeBSD coffee mugs? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:35:14 CST." <19990326203514.A9753@winternet.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:51:19 -0800 Message-ID: <11514.922503079@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There has been talk of posters too. No ETA yet though. > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > WC is also working on bringing back the mugs, though this time in > > stainless steel instead of the far more breakable ceramic. More > > details as I myself get ahold of them. > > > > - Jordan > > What about posters? A few of those would be pretty dang cool to hang > on my cube wall. > > -- > > Nathan Ahlstrom > nrahlstr@winternet.com > http://www.FreeBSD.org/ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 19: 8:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B926B15174 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:08:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01299 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:07:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199903270307.TAA01299@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Sweet news 8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:07:56 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Major e-mail virus " hits corporate hard . The article reports that in one company 60,000 machines were affected . http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2233030,00.html Perhaps some of the security oriented FreeBSD companies can capitalize on the good news!! Enjoy, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 19:13:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7185C14D1F for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:13:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id EAA26996 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 04:13:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 426788848; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:41:29 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:41:29 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Why no FreeBSD coffee mugs? Message-ID: <19990327004128.A35888@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Chat References: <14075.41689.237389.933255@cs.uni-magdeburg.de> <19990326085615.C61820@dub.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990326085615.C61820@dub.net>; from Bill Swingle on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 08:56:15AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5173 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Bill Swingle: > Hrmm, I know some one that works at SSC (the Linux Journal ppl). One of > her co-workers has a FreeBSD mug on her desk. I have't seen it but if > there are some out there would like to get my hands on one. ;) Walnut Creek used to sell FreeBSD mugs two years ago but stopped because the high ratio of broken ones during shipping. I ordered 14 for a few friends and I at that time and 6 were broken... WC changed them and I can understand them stopping selling 'em. I show mine at work whenever possible :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 19:39:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4D1115148 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:39:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-14-41.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.14.41]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA31228; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:39:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA21312; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:39:11 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199903270339.VAA21312@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: jesse@prinz-atm.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Why no FreeBSD coffee mugs? In-reply-to: Message from Roland Jesse of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:08:09 +0100." <14075.41689.237389.933255@cs.uni-magdeburg.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:39:11 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Roland Jesse writes: > Hi, > > I do have my "Power to serve" T-Shirt, I do have the little FreeBSD > plate on my computer case and I do have a little FreeBSD pin on my > coat. > > What I don't have, though, is a FreeBSD coffee mug - neither at home > nor at the office and I just feel so incredibly bad about it. ;) > > Does anybody here know why there are no mugs available at the FreeBSD > Mall? Is there some place else where to get them, preferable with the > "Power to server" logo? Believe you'll find the answer in the mail archives. Way back when, Jordan announced WC gave up trying to pack a coffee cup in such a way as the Post Office and/or UPS wouldn't break it. Apparently most were breaking in shipment. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 19:39:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6DF1514E for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:39:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-14-41.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.14.41]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA31308 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:39:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA21321 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:39:21 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199903270339.VAA21321@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: http://www.peterzale.com/377.html In-reply-to: Message from Jonathan Lemon of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:56:18 CST." <199903261856.MAA14323@free.pcs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:39:21 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathan Lemon writes: > In article you write: > >> Yeah, me too. Do they really have women like that at MIT? :-) > >> > >> So will somebody tell me the answer to the riddle at > >> http://www.peterzale.com/vacation.html ? > > > >Dunno. The 76th is an engineering battalian. > > I have no idea either, but I think you meant the the 86th Army of Indiana, > which is an engineering battalion. > > It could be the 76th Fighter Squadron of the 23rd Fighter group, 14th AF. > Or VC-76, of the Navy. I have no idea what the strip is referring to. Somehow I think we're searching too close to reality, when the site says, "...test your knowledge of *internet* history." : Pic is at ________.html : : To see one of Helen's vacation pictures (for adults only), answer the : following riddle which will test your knowledge of internet history. : Place your answer into the above URL: : : "This 76th VC gunner had two kills enroute to a takeover." A takeover? Corporate? Internet history? 8 letters? -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 19:39:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24AA714E93; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:39:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-14-41.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.14.41]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA31584; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:39:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA21330; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:39:28 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199903270339.VAA21330@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-reply-to: Message from "G. Adam Stanislav" of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:30:33 CST." <3.0.6.32.19990326093033.00919230@mail.bfm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:39:28 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: [...] > I share your sentiments, Unknown of River Styx. To me FreeBSD is largely a > big intellectual excercise. A powerful OS to which I dedicate 8 Gig of disk > space, while I only dedicate 3 Gig to Windows. I dedicated 20MB to DOS 5 on my 2G disk, upped it to 30MB on my 4G disk, but could see NT rearing its fat head in my future so the 9G disk got a 512MB allocation. Balance to FreeBSD. :-) > But when I actually want to accomplish something, I have no choice but to > boot Windows. Not because I like it but because I know how to use it. And > when I don't, I can always figure it out. There is always the "sink or swim" method. Problem is there isn't always enough time to recover from drowning. :-) When I really am under the gun to produce a pretty document I fire up the real tool, my Power Macintosh. One day soon I'm going to put WordPerfect thru the drill under FreeBSD. Was hoping to be playing with Applixware by now. :-( > Under FreeBSD (and, I suppose Unix in general), the solution is no doubt > available and probably more powerful, but it always requires me to use some > cryptically named command. Man pages are of little help to me: First of > all, I would need to know the name of the command to even get to the man > page. And even when I do, it seems the man page is always written in some > foreign language that only outwardly resembles English. Apropos usually > does not help me much either. I never could remember how to spell apropos but could always remember, "man -k". > Just days ago I have installed XFree86 3.3.3.1. Its interface is > reminiscent of Windows 1.0, XFree86 puts you in the minimalist barest window manager in existence, twm. Over the years I keep trying something else but keep falling back to twm. If only I could select twm windows on their borders, and grow them on their corners, I'd be happy. I am happy with SGI's default desktop but don't happen to have an SGI anymore. Don't need the icons. Liked their windows. Liked their clean desktop menu box thingy they put in the top left corner of the screen. If you fire up XFree86 via xdm the default Xsession manager is functional, but ugly, and full of warnings on exit when it doesn't get the information it wishes out of your apps as they are shutdown. > (I kinda suspect that I need more RAM, I only have 8 Meg, although > that is supposed to be enough.) 8M is more than plenty if its VIDEO RAM, but for core? 16M is the often quoted minimum. At work they'll only give me 24MB. Works. Netscape has to swap most every time I pull down a menu. But it works. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 19:42:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop02.globecomm.net (pop02.globecomm.net [206.253.129.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E14914E93; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:42:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zen@buddhist.com) Received: from WhizKid (r45.bfm.org [208.18.213.141]) by pop02.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id WAA14374; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:42:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990326213540.008f2c90@mail.bfm.org> X-Sender: stanislav@mail.bfm.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:35:40 -0600 To: Marty Poulin From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars Cc: unknown@riverstyx.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990326093033.00919230@mail.bfm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:50 26-03-1999 -0500, Marty Poulin wrote: >You'd be surprised what you can get away with without having to resort to >Windows. These days the only thing I need to boot down to microsoft for >is to surf the web using all those funky multimedia plugins that haven't >been ported to BSD (yet). And the odd game. Well, I really do not care for those funky plugins. And the only game I play under Win95 is Free Cell anyway. But I do have some programs that have their own file structures, and I have much work done in them. For example, NoteWorthy Composer is a shareware program I have registered and used to compose music with. >I agree, it can be a challenge to find answers at times, but that's where >the archives and mailing lists and FAQ's come in really handy - there is >no way I would have accomplished a fraction of what I have done if it >wasn't for all of the online help. Yes, without support from mailing lists I would have probably given up long time ago. The FAQs are useful for basics, but most of the time I have not found the answers I was seeking. Occasionally I did. I guess the type of questions I ask are not frequent (used to drive my college professors to insanity). :-) >Check out www.afterstep.org, www.windowmaker.org, and when you upgrade >your RAM, I recommend taking a look at KDE - a very "windows-ish" Desktop >Environment that I have come to really like. (www.kde.org) Interesting. I received your message right after I spent considerable time at a place that compares various window managers (got there through a link from FreeBSD.org). I was going to download KDE, but came up on another stumbling point: Just which of the gadzillion files do I need. Boy, do I hate ftp! Just a list of file names with no description. Gosh, it's been some ten years since I heade the Opus development team (Opus being a BBS program that used to be very popular in DOS world). We offered file downloads with description of every file on every single Opus BBS, and we did not invent the idea. Yet, years later, the Internet is still stuck with something as user-unfriendly as ftp. And it is so simple to emulate what we did in the BBS world with plain HTML (also downloads faster than ftp). I don't understand this ftp mentality. On my system I do place all downloads on the ftp site but make symbolic links to all files within the web site and make html pages which describe each file and let you download it by just right-clicking on it. It is so simple to do and makes the files available both by ftp and html without the need of wasting additional disk space (I love symbolic links!). But back to the topic of desktop managers like KDE. Does all X software run under all of them, or do you have to have different software (I mean applications) for, say, KDE and afterstep? I got the impression from KDE web site that applications must be written specifically for KDE... (Incidentally, it is a funny name to me: In Slovak, my mother tongue, "kde" means "where.") >>Computers were so much simpler when >> I was 15! > >Heh - back in the days when "GUI" meant that someone spilled their coffee >on the punch cards... Hehehe, that would have been a disaster! Punch cards were neat back then. I was quite impressed by what they could do and what we could do with them. When I first saw a punch card sorting machine at the age of 15, I was quite awed by its speed. I was a high school student in Slovakia--we were the only high school class in all of Slovakia that specialized in computer programming back then (1965). They took us to a company that had those sorting machines (and other machines). They showed them to us but pretty much did not allow us to touch them. :-) Heh, those machines are ancient history today (but the high school is still there and even has a web site :->). Adam --- Want to design your own web counter? Get GCL 2.10 from http://www.whizkidtech.net/gcl/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 20: 9:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191AD14D8A for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:09:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-14-41.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.14.41]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA12372 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:09:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA21742 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:09:04 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199903270409.WAA21742@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Why no FreeBSD coffee mugs? In-reply-to: Message from Nathan Ahlstrom of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:35:14 CST." <19990326203514.A9753@winternet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:09:04 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nathan Ahlstrom writes: > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > WC is also working on bringing back the mugs, though this time in > > stainless steel instead of the far more breakable ceramic. More > > details as I myself get ahold of them. > > > > - Jordan > > What about posters? A few of those would be pretty dang cool to hang > on my cube wall. And almost impossible to break in shipment! -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 26 23:42:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 126C114EC9; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:42:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.79]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA5F2D; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:41:52 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA71709; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:42:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:42:42 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: unknown@riverstyx.net Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, The Classiest Man Alive , Rainer M Duffner Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 26-Mar-99 unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: > You can get a fully functional networkable Linux machine with a web > browser (Lynx) and FTP on 2 floppies :-) www.freebsd.org/~picobsd --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 0:30:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8363A14C98 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:30:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20799; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:32:48 -0800 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:32:48 -0800 (PST) From: To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org And apparently it can be done on FreeBSD as well! On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > On 26-Mar-99 unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: > > > You can get a fully functional networkable Linux machine with a web > > browser (Lynx) and FTP on 2 floppies :-) > > www.freebsd.org/~picobsd > > --- > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven > asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... > Network/Security Specialist > *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 0:53:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D8114C3F; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:53:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA13984; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:23:26 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id TAA53554; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:23:24 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990327192324.C53452@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:23:24 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: We're not that different References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@originative.co.uk on Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 05:24:15PM -0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] [moved to -chat] On Thursday, 25 March 1999 at 17:24:15 -0000, paul@originative.co.uk wrote: > This is probably asking for trouble since it's not even remotely FreeBSD > related (then again it sort of is, see points below). Some of you may have > seen it but a little light relief is a good thing at times :-) Well, that's what -chat's for. I'm forwarding it there, mainly so I can get the chance to reformat it and read it. So what category does that put me in? :-) Greg >>> Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a >>> light bulb? >>> >>> A: 1,343 >>> >>> 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the >>> light bulb has been changed; >>> >>> 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how >>> the light bulb could have been changed differently; >>> >>> 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs; >>> >>> 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing >>> light bulbs; >>> >>> 53 to flame the spell checkers; >>> >>> 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames; >>> >>> 6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb"; >>> >>> another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive; >>> >>> 156 to write to the list administrator about the light bulb >>> discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list; >>> >>> 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please >>> take this email exchange to litebulb-l; >>> >>> 203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l and >>> illuminati-l about changing light bulbs be stopped; >>> >>> 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use >>> light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this mail >>> list; >>> >>> 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, >>> where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work >>> best for this technique and what brands are faulty; >>> >>> 27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light >>> bulbs; >>> >>> 14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post >>> the corrected URL's; >>> >>> 3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant >>> to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list; >>> >>> 33 to link all posts to date, then quote them including all >>> headers and footers and then add "Me too"; >>> >>> 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they >>> cannot handle the light bulb controversy; >>> >>> 19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three"; >>> >>> 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ; >>> >>> 44 to ask what is "FAQ"; >>> >>> 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago on >>> Usenet?" >>> >>> 143 to ask "what's Usenet?" -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 0:55:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4CE514C3F for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:55:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.79]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA48CA; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:54:51 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA71832; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:54:49 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:54:49 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: unknown@riverstyx.net Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27-Mar-99 unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: > And apparently it can be done on FreeBSD as well! Aye, picoBSD rocks in the way it's set up. I mean just check out /usr/src/release for picoBSD and the sources. That's a better system than all those (about 15) floppy versions of Linux. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 4:53:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E24214CFC for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 04:53:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id NAA20907 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:53:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 539D98848; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:58:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:58:32 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars Message-ID: <19990327115832.A38455@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <3.0.6.32.19990326093033.00919230@mail.bfm.org> <3.0.6.32.19990326213540.008f2c90@mail.bfm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990326213540.008f2c90@mail.bfm.org>; from G. Adam Stanislav on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 09:35:40PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5173 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to G. Adam Stanislav: > under all of them, or do you have to have different software (I mean > applications) for, say, KDE and afterstep? I got the impression from KDE > web site that applications must be written specifically for KDE... No, you can run any application under any window manager. The main thing with GNOME & KDE is that they're more than just a window manager so you can use special apps to take advantage of their advanced features. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 9: 2:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from netcom13.netcom.com (netcom13.netcom.com [192.100.81.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94EA0154D9 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:02:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from das@netcom.com) Received: (from das@localhost) by netcom13.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id JAA17940; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:01:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:01:55 -0800 (PST) From: Das Devaraj Subject: Re: Sweet news 8) To: Amancio Hasty Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903270307.TAA01299@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > "Major e-mail virus " hits corporate hard . The article reports that in one > company > 60,000 machines were affected . > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2233030,00.html > > Perhaps some of the security oriented FreeBSD companies can capitalize on the > good news!! They shut down the Internet mail?! If they were running procmail, it is a couple of lines of code to filter out any email... das To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 10:43:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D7E514D5C for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:43:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from chris@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06249; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:43:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990327134301.A5863@netmonger.net> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:43:01 -0500 From: Christopher Masto To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199903261129.GAA08569@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199903261129.GAA08569@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 06:29:33AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 06:29:33AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Fanaticism with regards to using an OS whose developers won't do what > is needed is also irritating. Maybe they are now coming aware with real > applications being used now. FreeBSD users exposed the issue almost > right away, and therefore the problem had to be fixed. There was no > choice, and no arrogance. > > FreeBSD (in general) should be proud about the consideration that the > developers had given to the user base. From that viewpoint, it is not Working threads? NFS? I have nothing but FreeBSD on my machines, but I often hear the comment that someone chose or went back to Linux because it has more "support" for various things. And lately the amount of software I can't build because it relies on threads is growing. (I think we've "copied" Linux's implementation somewhere, but it doesn't seem to be in the standard distribution.. sound familiar?) I'm not advocating Linux, but I don't think we should be saying things that make us look hypocritical. -- Christopher Masto Senior Network Monkey NetMonger Communications chris@netmonger.net info@netmonger.net http://www.netmonger.net Free yourself, free your machine, free the daemon -- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 10:48:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBA681522A for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:48:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from chris@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06471; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:48:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990327134838.B5863@netmonger.net> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:48:38 -0500 From: Christopher Masto To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Working in the IT Field - Trials and Tribulations Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <36F3CCA1.DFDCFA29@mediaone.net> <000401be7746$7c765b20$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <000401be7746$7c765b20$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob>; from Brad Benson on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 12:07:03AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 12:07:03AM -0500, Brad Benson wrote: > You said before the network isn't connected to the Internet. If it's a > closed system you shouldn't have to worry a lot about your security on the > NT box. Unless you have some skilled and disgruntled employees. I would make What's that statistic again about the percentage of securtity incidents that come from the inside? -- Christopher Masto Senior Network Monkey NetMonger Communications chris@netmonger.net info@netmonger.net http://www.netmonger.net Free yourself, free your machine, free the daemon -- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 12:17:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F4314C42 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:17:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-150.thuntek.net [207.66.52.150]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id NAA25105; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:16:49 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36FD3CB5.946C1EBA@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:16:53 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christopher Masto Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars References: <199903261129.GAA08569@dyson.iquest.net> <19990327134301.A5863@netmonger.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Christopher Masto wrote: > Working threads? NFS? > > I have nothing but FreeBSD on my machines, but I often hear the > comment that someone chose or went back to Linux because it has more > "support" for various things. And lately the amount of software I > can't build because it relies on threads is growing. (I think we've > "copied" Linux's implementation somewhere, but it doesn't seem to > be in the standard distribution.. sound familiar?) > My understanding is that our NFS is far superior to Linux'. > I'm not advocating Linux, but I don't think we should be saying things > that make us look hypocritical. > My tack will be to play up our strengths, and encourage -- and embarass privately -- our guys to fix our weaknesses. You won't hear the words Linux or Microsoft very often any more from my lips, except with respect for what they are, but _what_ I promote in our OS will sure make them squirm. =8-D -- Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 13:32:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27853151C6; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:32:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id WAA71755; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:32:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: David Kelly Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars References: <199903270339.VAA21330@nospam.hiwaay.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 27 Mar 1999 23:32:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: David Kelly's message of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:39:28 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly writes: > I never could remember how to spell apropos but could always remember, > "man -k". "apropos" has two characters too many, and the letters are further apart on the keyboard than "man -k". No contest. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 13:36:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5BC1520F; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:35:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id WAA71769; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:33:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: Marty Poulin , unknown@riverstyx.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars References: <3.0.6.32.19990326093033.00919230@mail.bfm.org> <3.0.6.32.19990326213540.008f2c90@mail.bfm.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 27 Mar 1999 23:33:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: "G. Adam Stanislav"'s message of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:35:40 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > Interesting. I received your message right after I spent considerable time > at a place that compares various window managers (got there through a link > from FreeBSD.org). I was going to download KDE, but came up on another > stumbling point: Just which of the gadzillion files do I need. Boy, do I > hate ftp! Just a list of file names with no description. # cd /usr/ports/x11/kde11 # make install clean DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 15: 4:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from terror.hungry.com (terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EFA5B14C88 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 15:04:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fn@hungry.com) Received: (qmail 27462 invoked by uid 0); 27 Mar 1999 23:04:00 -0000 Received: from siren.hungry.com (undead@199.181.107.129) by terror.hungry.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 1999 23:04:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 25457 invoked by uid 507); 27 Mar 1999 23:04:16 -0000 From: Faried Nawaz To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: emacs 18.59. Reply-To: Faried Nawaz Organization: Integral Domains. Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 15:04:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <19990327150416.362951.FMU5280@siren.hungry.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I maintain some elisp code that has to work all the way back to Emacs 18.59. Does anyone have patches to build Emacs 18.59 on FreeBSD 3.x? Currently, I use an OpenStep 4.1 box to test my code (the OS ships with 18.59), but I'm losing that box sometime next month. Thanks, faried. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 15:26:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F3E14D92 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 15:26:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07269; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 15:28:27 -0800 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 15:28:27 -0800 (PST) From: To: Donald Wilde Cc: Christopher Masto , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars In-Reply-To: <36FD3CB5.946C1EBA@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > Christopher Masto wrote: > > Working threads? NFS? > > > > I have nothing but FreeBSD on my machines, but I often hear the > > comment that someone chose or went back to Linux because it has more > > "support" for various things. And lately the amount of software I > > can't build because it relies on threads is growing. (I think we've > > "copied" Linux's implementation somewhere, but it doesn't seem to > > be in the standard distribution.. sound familiar?) > My understanding is that our NFS is far superior to Linux'. > > I'm not advocating Linux, but I don't think we should be saying things > > that make us look hypocritical. > > > My tack will be to play up our strengths, and encourage -- and embarass > privately -- our guys to fix our weaknesses. You won't hear the words > Linux or Microsoft very often any more from my lips, except with respect > for what they are, but _what_ I promote in our OS will sure make them > squirm. =8-D I gotta say, that's kinda lame. Different OS have different positive and negative aspects... if you just promote FreeBSD over all other platforms, you're going to misguide people when they should be going with something else. And don't tell me that FreeBSD is the optimal OS for all situations, 'coz that's a load of horse pucky :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 16:55: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sydney.alpha.net.au (sydney.alpha.net.au [203.31.171.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A9AE14D07 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:55:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@alpha.net.au) Received: from fluffy (p40-max23.syd.ihug.com.au [206.17.108.232]) by sydney.alpha.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12453; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:05:49 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199903280105.LAA12453@sydney.alpha.net.au> Reply-To: From: "Danny Ho" To: "Greg Lehey" , Cc: "FreeBSD Chat" Subject: Re: We're not that different Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:12:40 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi I am trying to get around some general concepts of networking so I can have a better understanding of ur book 1) in the OSI modem there is a phase known as "Negotiation". what is it and what is an example of it in the real world? Compresson is performed at 1)Nework layer 2)Physical layer 3)presentation layer A router operates at transport layer network layer physical layer A bridge is a device that operates at data link network layer physical layer A repeater is a device that operates at session layer presentaition layer Data link layer Physical layer Ithanks alot . BTW ur FREEBSD Book is really good. Not as try and boring as "Oreily's Sendmail" ############################################################ Everything in the West is secrets unless there is a consious decision to the contrary. Our civlization, which never stop declaiming about the inviolabilty of free speech, but operates as if it distrusts nothing more. Knowledge is the measurement of your power. Everything in the internet is free speech unless there is a decision to the contrary . Connect to the internet NOW join Alpha Dot Net Australia call:- 9211 7782 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 17: 4: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AFD31526E for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:03:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11921 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:06:14 -0800 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:06:14 -0800 (PST) From: To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: We're not that different In-Reply-To: <199903280105.LAA12453@sydney.alpha.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hehe.. what's this? high school comp sci? :-) On Sun, 28 Mar 1999, Danny Ho wrote: > Hi I am trying to get around some general concepts of networking so I can > have a better understanding of ur book > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 17:26:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D38BD14C46 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:26:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA34319; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:24:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: danny@alpha.net.au Cc: "Greg Lehey" , paul@originative.co.uk, "FreeBSD Chat" Subject: Re: We're not that different In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:12:40 +1000." <199903280105.LAA12453@sydney.alpha.net.au> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:24:32 -0800 Message-ID: <34317.922584272@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hi I am trying to get around some general concepts of networking so I can > have a better understanding of ur book Translation: I am trying to pass my computer science course and thought if I somehow related them to your book, you'd be much more likely to answer my questions. > [clearly transcribed homework assignment question snipped] Not a bad try though. Your teacher should give you at least one point for deviousness on this test. ;) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 18:21:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DE6E15684; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:21:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA17095; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:51:30 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA75669; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:51:29 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990328115128.V53452@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:51:28 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Faried Nawaz Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: emacs 18.59. References: <19990327150416.362951.FMU5280@siren.hungry.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990327150416.362951.FMU5280@siren.hungry.com>; from Faried Nawaz on Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 03:04:16PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [following up to -questions] There's not much that doesn't belong on -chat, but I think that you'll get better answers to this one on -questions. On Saturday, 27 March 1999 at 15:04:16 -0800, Faried Nawaz wrote: > > Hello, > > I maintain some elisp code that has to work all the way back to Emacs > 18.59. Does anyone have patches to build Emacs 18.59 on FreeBSD 3.x? No, but have you tried just building it? I can probably drag out some port logs if you run into trouble, but it would be nice to know what goes wrong first. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 18:23:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88FA614FB2 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:23:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA17103; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:53:33 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA76802; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:53:33 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990328115332.W53452@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:53:32 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: danny@alpha.net.au, paul@originative.co.uk Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: We're not that different References: <199903280105.LAA12453@sydney.alpha.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199903280105.LAA12453@sydney.alpha.net.au>; from Danny Ho on Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 11:12:40AM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 28 March 1999 at 11:12:40 +1000, Danny Ho wrote: > Hi I am trying to get around some general concepts of networking so I can > have a better understanding of ur book How does this relate to the book, or to FreeBSD? > 1) in the OSI modem there is a phase known as "Negotiation". what is it > and what is an example of it in the real world? > > [exam questions deleted] For once in a while, I'll take private mail on this one. Bring money. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 21: 4:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66C1614FB4 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:04:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-131.thuntek.net [207.66.52.131]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id WAA07459; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:04:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36FDB7BF.F4AA1226@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:01:51 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: unknown@riverstyx.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: > > On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > My tack will be to play up our strengths, and encourage -- and embarass > > privately -- our guys to fix our weaknesses. You won't hear the words > > Linux or Microsoft very often any more from my lips, except with respect > > for what they are, but _what_ I promote in our OS will sure make them > > squirm. =8-D > > I gotta say, that's kinda lame. Different OS have different positive and > negative aspects... if you just promote FreeBSD over all other platforms, > you're going to misguide people when they should be going with something > else. And don't tell me that FreeBSD is the optimal OS for all > situations, 'coz that's a load of horse pucky :) WE know that. Anybody who's cannon fodder for marketing pitches deserves what he gets, which is usually the OS with the loudest pitchmen. We have lots of comparisons of all kinds, and we will have more, but you don't give up the sale up front. In dealing with human beings, I _like_ to offer the fair solution first. That way, after the other party has taken advantage of me a few times, he feels so embarrassed he promptly flips himself on his back. Such tacks do not work with salesmen and corporate CEO's, however. They -- by definition -- cannot be human. It's called 'fiduciary responsibility'. -- Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 23: 5:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from charleston.softhome.net (charleston.SoftHome.net [204.144.231.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BCE3D14EF9 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:05:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bradley@softhome.net) Received: (qmail 18965 invoked by uid 417); 28 Mar 1999 07:26:05 -0000 Received: from max1-ppp-47.cyberix.com (HELO BillyJoeBob) (207.106.53.226) by smtp.softhome.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 1999 07:26:05 -0000 From: "Brad Benson" To: Subject: RE: Working in the IT Field - Trials and Tribulations Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 02:04:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be78e9$294a4980$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <19990327134838.B5863@netmonger.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 12:07:03AM -0500, Brad Benson wrote: > > You said before the network isn't connected to the Internet. If it's a > > closed system you shouldn't have to worry a lot about your > security on the > > NT box. Unless you have some skilled and disgruntled employees. > I would make > > What's that statistic again about the percentage of security incidents > that come from the inside? I don't know about the statistics. I can say that the biggest security issues I've had, in the companies I've done work for, had little to do with the OS. Employees working on these closed networks often take security as a joke. I can't count the times I've gone into a company where most employees new the root or admin password. I used to do a lot of work with NetWare and it was even worse. People would setup a network and just give every user supervisory rights. It doesn't matter how tight the OS is if everyone has the password, or no one setup the security right in the first place. I'd put money on the fact that any statistic on internal security has a lot to do with this type of problem. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 27 23:18:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 75568151C1 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:18:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 21270 invoked by alias); 28 Mar 1999 07:18:07 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 21244 invoked by uid 0); 28 Mar 1999 07:18:06 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 1999 07:18:06 -0000 Message-ID: <36FDD7A8.783E0EDC@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:18:00 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: Marty Poulin , unknown@riverstyx.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD: The Storage Wars References: <3.0.6.32.19990326093033.00919230@mail.bfm.org> <3.0.6.32.19990326213540.008f2c90@mail.bfm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [-newbies removed from CC:] "G. Adam Stanislav" wrote: > >>Computers were so much simpler when > >> I was 15! > > > >Heh - back in the days when "GUI" meant that someone spilled their coffee > >on the punch cards... > > Hehehe, that would have been a disaster! Punch cards were neat back then. I > was quite impressed by what they could do and what we could do with them. > When I first saw a punch card sorting machine at the age of 15, I was quite > awed by its speed. I was a high school student in Slovakia--we were the > only high school class in all of Slovakia that specialized in computer > programming back then (1965). They took us to a company that had those > sorting machines (and other machines). They showed them to us but pretty > much did not allow us to touch them. :-) Late one night, in a cool computer lab, the smell of machine oil and ozone, the hum and whine of the LP-size disks and chillers all but blocked from your conciousness as you toil over your project, your baby... You finish the last card and place it in the box. Suddenly, horribly, as you walk over to the reader, your shoe catches on a loose floor tile, you go down, the box goes up, up, cards scatter, fluttering everywhere like a swarm of butterflies in some insane Anime film... Now THAT'S a crash. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey availble To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message