From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 13 15:47:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF3D150F7 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:47:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aw1@stade.co.uk) Received: from stade.demon.co.uk ([158.152.29.164]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10tJ2S-00056e-0K for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:47:41 +0000 Received: from mervyn.stade.co.uk (mervyn.stade.co.uk [192.168.1.8]) by stade.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27448 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:38:01 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from aw1@mervyn.stade.co.uk) Received: (from aw1@localhost) by mervyn.stade.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04282 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:35:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from aw1) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:35:16 +0100 From: Adrian Wontroba To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposal: Split up cvs-all mailing list? Message-ID: <19990613233516.C4037@mervyn.stade.co.uk> Reply-To: aw1@stade.co.uk References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from The Hermit Hacker on Tue, Jun 08, 1999 at 01:31:27PM -0300 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE Organization: Yes, I need some of that. X-Phone: +(44) 121 681 6677 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 08, 1999 at 01:31:27PM -0300, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > Right now, I'm personally having problems with -STABLE on my > production server, and would like to be able to watch for and read up on > any changes to the -STABLE tree wihtout having to scan through several > hundred other unrelated emails ... It is easy to do with the mutt MUA - enter the folder, type "l" (limit), then "~B RELENG" to pick up messages with RELENG in the body. Limiting on ": www", ": doc", ": ports" etc picks up messages with that text in the subject line. -- Adrian Wontroba To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 13 18:13:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from icicle.winternet.com (icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084A814BCD for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:13:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com) Received: from tundra.winternet.com (nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11]) by icicle.winternet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08699 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:13:46 -0500 (CDT) SMTP "HELO" (ESMTP) greeting from tundra.winternet.com But _really_ from :: nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11] SMTP "MAIL From" = nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com (Nathan Ahlstrom) SMTP "RCPT To" = Received: (from nrahlstr@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA13984 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:13:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990613201345.D13826@winternet.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:13:45 -0500 From: Nathan Ahlstrom To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: bde? Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org No committers/core person has ever met Bruce Evans? Is that right? But he is going to be at FreeBSDCon'99 ?? -- Nathan Ahlstrom FreeBSD: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ nrahlstr@winternet.com PGP Key ID: 0x67BC9D19 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 13 19:47:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2522E14BE2 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:47:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA53767; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:48:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Nathan Ahlstrom Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:13:45 CDT." <19990613201345.D13826@winternet.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:48:05 -0700 Message-ID: <53763.929328485@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > No committers/core person has ever met Bruce Evans? Is that right? No core people that I know of have. I'm not 100% positive about committers. > But he is going to be at FreeBSDCon'99 ?? Correct. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 13 20: 6:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25CCF14C02 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:06:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-14-148.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.14.148]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA28485; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:06:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30138; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:06:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199906140306.WAA30138@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Tani Hosokawa Cc: Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: David Kelly Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-reply-to: Message from Tani Hosokawa of "Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:23:25 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:06:12 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Moved to -chat. Tani Hosokawa writes: >From what I understand, it's going to be GPL'd. Oh? Where did you hear that? http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/1999/may/xfs.html says: > License and Availability > SGI will begin to offer code later this summer > and meet the license guidelines set-forth by > the Open Source Initiative. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,0-36807,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh says: > While SGI's announcement will come tomorrow, the > software itself won't be available for download > until the summer. SGI still is deciding how to > structure the open source license, the company > said, though it is sure to meet the requirements of > the Open Source Definition, a spokesman said. While the above are liberally sprinkled with the word, "Linux", the SGI press release does not say XFS is being contributed to Linux, but "to the Open Source Community." Big difference. The news article appears to have taken liberties attributing XFS to Linux as it was announced at a Linux show. You know the media can't tell the difference between FreeBSD, Linux, Macintosh, and Chernobyl. :-) When its released and when the details of the license are published, then there may be a race to see who can implement it in Linux and the BSD's first. However I suspect SGI has people implementing it in Linux this very moment and will run under Linux the instant it is publicly released. I have used SGI's XFS for several years and been quite happy with it. So happy I got lazy and quit making separate root, var, and usr filesystems. (SGI ships Irix that way too). Three years, 30 systems, the only filesystem loss was when somebody yanked a SCSI cable on an active disk THEN plugged it back in hot. Then again I haven't run that many FreeBSD systems but have a similar track record with filesystems. Prior to March 1995 I ran Linux until it ate my filesystems 3 times in one week. Never could get Linux running well enough to do any work. First week with FreeBSD was rough. But clear sailing and all smiles ever since. > On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Morten Seeberg wrote: > > > I read that SGI donated some Jornalised Filesystem Source Code to the Linux > > Project, would this information not help the FreeBSD Project achieve these > > features also? > > > > Is it even legal to use it, they might have donated it entirely for the > > Linux project of course. Anything released for Linux is usable in FreeBSD. Its just that it has to be kept separate so those working on it know the terms. And those using FreeBSD for special purposes know they may be obliged under GPL to ship certian sections of source code with their product. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 13 23:36:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DD85314D40 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:36:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 13868 invoked by alias); 14 Jun 1999 06:36:56 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 13817 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jun 1999 06:36:54 -0000 Received: from edsl170.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.170) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 06:36:54 -0000 Message-ID: <3764A308.C0CE6AD4@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:36:56 -0700 From: Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nathan Ahlstrom , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? References: <53763.929328485@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > No committers/core person has ever met Bruce Evans? Is that right? > > No core people that I know of have. I'm not 100% positive about > committers. My apologies if this is an old/stupid question, but how it is possible that he can be part of core without having met any of the other members? Has anyone at least spoken voice with him? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 0:21:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 929E615280 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:21:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA56370; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:21:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Nathan Ahlstrom , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? References: <53763.929328485@zippy.cdrom.com> <3764A308.C0CE6AD4@uswest.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 Jun 1999 09:21:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: 's message of "Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:36:56 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org writes: > My apologies if this is an old/stupid question, but how it is > possible that he can be part of core without having met any of the > other members? His competence and reputation speak for themselves. He was a prominent member of the Minix community before he joined FreeBSD, and, judging from comments from Linus Torvalds, was influential in the design of Linux back in 1991. As others have said before me, Bruce was doing Unix back when some of us were still wearing diapers. > Has anyone at least spoken voice with him? It is my understanding that he is deaf. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 0:21:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68D8015280 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:21:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA56386; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:21:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nathan Ahlstrom , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? References: <53763.929328485@zippy.cdrom.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 Jun 1999 09:21:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of "Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:48:05 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > But he is going to be at FreeBSDCon'99 ?? > Correct. That settles it. I'm going, come hell or high water :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 0:25:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F5915280 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:25:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA56481; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:25:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: David Kelly Cc: Tani Hosokawa , Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux References: <199906140306.WAA30138@nospam.hiwaay.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 Jun 1999 09:25:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: David Kelly's message of "Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:06:12 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly writes: > Tani Hosokawa writes: > > From what I understand, it's going to be GPL'd. > Oh? Where did you hear that? > [...] > While the above are liberally sprinkled with the word, "Linux", the SGI > press release does not say XFS is being contributed to Linux, but "to > the Open Source Community." Big difference. The news article appears to > have taken liberties attributing XFS to Linux as it was announced at a > Linux show. You know the media can't tell the difference between > FreeBSD, Linux, Macintosh, and Chernobyl. :-) Granted, but considering that the rest of the Linux kernel is under GPL, XFS pretty much *has* to be under GPL unless it's implemented as a userland process. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 1: 6:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDADF14E0D for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:06:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31911; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:06:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:06:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: David Kelly Cc: Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-Reply-To: <199906140306.WAA30138@nospam.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 13 Jun 1999, David Kelly wrote: > Moved to -chat. > > Tani Hosokawa writes: > >From what I understand, it's going to be GPL'd. > > Oh? Where did you hear that? I think I misread something. Here's what I actually saw: "All the development that SGI is doing on the Linux kernel will be released under GPL, and that includes page cache and buffer cache changes we might be making for XFS. Note however that XFS itself is not part of the kernel but rather a loadable module. The terms of the XFS license are still being reviewed by our legal staff. thx, Dan Koren Dan.Koren@sgi.com Engineering Manager, File Systems phone: (USA) 650-933-3678 Silicon Graphics, Inc. pager: (USA) 888-769-0874 1600 Amphiteatre Pkwy. M/S 08U-500 or dkoren_p@pager.sgi.com Mountain View, CA 94043-1351 fax: (USA) 650-933-3542" So, on second glance, I guess they're not necessarily releasing it under the GPL. They've got a separate license for the XFS code, and GPL for some kind of interface code, or something. > http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/1999/may/xfs.html says: > > License and Availability > > SGI will begin to offer code later this summer > > and meet the license guidelines set-forth by > > the Open Source Initiative. > > http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,0-36807,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh says: > > While SGI's announcement will come tomorrow, the > > software itself won't be available for download > > until the summer. SGI still is deciding how to > > structure the open source license, the company > > said, though it is sure to meet the requirements of > > the Open Source Definition, a spokesman said. > > While the above are liberally sprinkled with the word, "Linux", the SGI > press release does not say XFS is being contributed to Linux, but "to > the Open Source Community." Big difference. The news article appears to > have taken liberties attributing XFS to Linux as it was announced at a > Linux show. You know the media can't tell the difference between > FreeBSD, Linux, Macintosh, and Chernobyl. :-) > > When its released and when the details of the license are published, > then there may be a race to see who can implement it in Linux and the > BSD's first. However I suspect SGI has people implementing it in Linux > this very moment and will run under Linux the instant it is publicly > released. Yes, there are SGI people working on it right now (some of them have mentioned their work on linux-kernel). > I have used SGI's XFS for several years and been quite happy with it. > So happy I got lazy and quit making separate root, var, and usr > filesystems. (SGI ships Irix that way too). Three years, 30 systems, > the only filesystem loss was when somebody yanked a SCSI cable on an > active disk THEN plugged it back in hot. > > Then again I haven't run that many FreeBSD systems but have a similar > track record with filesystems. Prior to March 1995 I ran Linux until it > ate my filesystems 3 times in one week. Never could get Linux running > well enough to do any work. First week with FreeBSD was rough. But > clear sailing and all smiles ever since. Argh... yes, the Linux filesystem. Maybe this'll even the playing ground a little :) --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 1:17:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 867D914E89 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:17:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA59204; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:17:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Tani Hosokawa Cc: David Kelly , Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 Jun 1999 10:17:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: Tani Hosokawa's message of "Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:06:06 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tani Hosokawa writes: > "All the development that SGI is doing on the Linux kernel will be > released under GPL, and that includes page cache and buffer cache > changes we might be making for XFS. Note however that XFS itself > is not part of the kernel but rather a loadable module. The terms > of the XFS license are still being reviewed by our legal staff. I hope they won't be too busy "reviewing the terms of the XFS license" to read the GPL and discover that it requires them to release XFS under GPL, even if it is "not part of the kernel but rather a loadable module". DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 1:46:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826971508E for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:46:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:46:30 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" , "Tani Hosokawa" Cc: "David Kelly" , "Morten Seeberg" , Subject: RE: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:46:29 -0700 Message-ID: <000001beb642$65385540$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FWIW, my lawyers don't agree. If a derived work requires the original work in order to be used, you can steal from the original all you want. For example, if I make a replacement foo.sys for Windows 98, I can steal from Windows 98 all I want so long as the finished foo.sys can only be used with Windows 98. After all, what good does it do to steal something if you can only give it to those who already have it? What would Microsoft's damages be? Similarly, a kernel module may have to steal from the kernel, but since it can only be used with the kernel, the same rule applies. DS > I hope they won't be too busy "reviewing the terms of the XFS license" > to read the GPL and discover that it requires them to release XFS > under GPL, even if it is "not part of the kernel but rather a loadable > module". > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 2:26: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E641714D70 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:26:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA60678; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:24:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: "David Schwartz" Cc: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" , "Tani Hosokawa" , "David Kelly" , "Morten Seeberg" , Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux References: <000001beb642$65385540$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 Jun 1999 11:24:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: "David Schwartz"'s message of "Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:46:29 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 28 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "David Schwartz" writes: > > I hope they won't be too busy "reviewing the terms of the XFS license" > > to read the GPL and discover that it requires them to release XFS > > under GPL, even if it is "not part of the kernel but rather a loadable > > module". > > FWIW, my lawyers don't agree. If a derived work requires the original work > in order to be used, you can steal from the original all you want. > > For example, if I make a replacement foo.sys for Windows 98, I can steal > from Windows 98 all I want so long as the finished foo.sys can only be used > with Windows 98. > > After all, what good does it do to steal something if you can only give it > to those who already have it? What would Microsoft's damages be? > > Similarly, a kernel module may have to steal from the kernel, but since it > can only be used with the kernel, the same rule applies. You've totally missed the point. Linux is under GPL. The GPL forbids linking GPLed software with non-GPLed software. SGI can't develop XFS for Linux without using Linux, and to use Linux they have to agree to the terms of its license, which forbids them to release software that links with Linux except under the GPL. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 2:36:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 564FB14D70 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:36:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02175; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:35:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:35:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: David Kelly , Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 14 Jun 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Tani Hosokawa writes: > > "All the development that SGI is doing on the Linux kernel will be > > released under GPL, and that includes page cache and buffer cache > > changes we might be making for XFS. Note however that XFS itself > > is not part of the kernel but rather a loadable module. The terms > > of the XFS license are still being reviewed by our legal staff. > I hope they won't be too busy "reviewing the terms of the XFS license" > to read the GPL and discover that it requires them to release XFS > under GPL, even if it is "not part of the kernel but rather a loadable > module". From what I understand, they are able to release the code under the GPL, while still retaining full rights to the original code, which they can also retain as proprietary software under a different open source license. Much like the way the Apache group does stuff, like Ralph Engeschall's shutils package, which is released under the Apache license, as well as his own license, as well as any other licenses he feels like. The only difference would be SGI wouldn't be allowed to incorporate (directly from the GPL'd source) any changes made to the GPL'd source without GPL'ing that derivative work. I don't see as how that should affect them any. In fact, releasing under the GPL would probably be good for them, as it gives them the PR benefits of being pro-OSI, without allowing Sun or HP or any other OS vendor to directly capitalize on their contribution. --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 2:44: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C04A14D70 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:44:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02342; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:43:40 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:43:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: David Schwartz Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , David Kelly , Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-Reply-To: <000001beb642$65385540$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't see as how the kernel module would be "stealing" from the kernel at all. From a module's perspective, the kernel just has an API that it has to conform to. In fact, a kernel module is only really a highly specialized form of executable, and I think it would be inane to suggest that all Linux executables be GPL'd because they happen to use various kernel hooks in order to operate. XFS is a concept all on its own, and it doesn't require the kernel to exist. It can be attached to any operating system. What Dag is thinking of, I assume, is the clause in the GPL that states that if a GPL'd component is included (bundled) with another product, the latter product must be GPL'd. It doesn't work in reverse, and I don't see the situation being the Linux kernel being bundled as part of the XFS package. Just thoughts and jots... On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, David Schwartz wrote: > > FWIW, my lawyers don't agree. If a derived work requires the original work > in order to be used, you can steal from the original all you want. > > For example, if I make a replacement foo.sys for Windows 98, I can steal > from Windows 98 all I want so long as the finished foo.sys can only be used > with Windows 98. > > After all, what good does it do to steal something if you can only give it > to those who already have it? What would Microsoft's damages be? > > Similarly, a kernel module may have to steal from the kernel, but since it > can only be used with the kernel, the same rule applies. > > DS > > > I hope they won't be too busy "reviewing the terms of the XFS license" > > to read the GPL and discover that it requires them to release XFS > > under GPL, even if it is "not part of the kernel but rather a loadable > > module". > > > > DES > > -- > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 3: 8:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web1006.mail.yahoo.com (web1006.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C76515074 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:08:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bvmcg@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19990614100831.6933.rocketmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.29.199.226] by web1006.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:08:31 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:08:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian McGroarty Reply-To: brian@pobox.com Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The concept of linkage in offering XFS as a LKM is no different than that for the sourceless device drivers offered by some vendors, Creative Labs among. Presumably this has been through their legal dept. Unless quite a few vendors are in for a nasty wake up call, DES is correct below. Parting thought: Even if this were an issue, the GPL is still untested in court. The concensus among many is that it won't survive when it's eventually put to trial. --- Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > "David Schwartz" writes: > > > I hope they won't be too busy "reviewing the terms of the > XFS license" > > > to read the GPL and discover that it requires them to > release XFS > > > under GPL, even if it is "not part of the kernel but > rather a loadable > > > module". > > > > FWIW, my lawyers don't agree. If a derived work requires > the original work > > in order to be used, you can steal from the original all you > want. > > > > For example, if I make a replacement foo.sys for Windows > 98, I can steal > > from Windows 98 all I want so long as the finished foo.sys > can only be used > > with Windows 98. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 3:19:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D37B8152A3 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA62030; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:19:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Tani Hosokawa Cc: David Schwartz , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , David Kelly , Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 Jun 1999 12:19:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: Tani Hosokawa's message of "Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:43:40 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tani Hosokawa writes: > What Dag Dag-Erling, if you please. > is thinking of, I assume, is the clause in the GPL that states > that if a GPL'd component is included (bundled) with another product, the > latter product must be GPL'd. It doesn't work in reverse, and I don't see > the situation being the Linux kernel being bundled as part of the XFS > package. No. Read the GPL, and read what RMS writes about it. Plugins and loadable modules are derivative work, and must be under GPL. The specific example RMS used was that of a non-GPL GIMP plugin (which he claims violates the GPL, under which GIMP is ditributed). He also stated that the reverse (a GPL plugin to a commercial product, e.g. Adobe PhotoShop) would violate the GPL. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 3:21:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BCD2152A3 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:21:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA62086; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:21:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: brian@pobox.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux References: <19990614100831.6933.rocketmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 Jun 1999 12:21:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: Brian McGroarty's message of "Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:08:31 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brian McGroarty writes: > Parting thought: Even if this were an issue, the GPL is still > untested in court. The concensus among many is that it won't > survive when it's eventually put to trial. Now, to find someone with the means, opportunity and motive to challenge the GPL before a court of law... DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 3:41:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DFC514BEC for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:41:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:41:18 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" Cc: "Tani Hosokawa" , "David Kelly" , "Morten Seeberg" , Subject: RE: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:41:18 -0700 Message-ID: <000201beb652$6f75b0b0$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You've totally missed the point. Linux is under GPL. The GPL forbids > linking GPLed software with non-GPLed software. SGI can't develop XFS > for Linux without using Linux, and to use Linux they have to agree to > the terms of its license, which forbids them to release software that > links with Linux except under the GPL. I've not missed the point. You have simply made some other point. My point still stands, unless you can refute it. US law is a funny thing. You can buy a program that has a license agreement that says you can't make a backup copy, but you still can. That right is guaranteed by law. Similarly, a book can have a page in it that says you can't lend the book out. But you still can. You have that right under law. I'm talking about (and I think I made this clear) rights that are guaranteed under law. The licensing agreement cannot remove them. Please read what I said again. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 3:41:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F013215147 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:41:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:41:21 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: , Subject: RE: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:41:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000401beb652$711222a0$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <19990614100831.6933.rocketmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Parting thought: Even if this were an issue, the GPL is still > untested in court. The concensus among many is that it won't > survive when it's eventually put to trial. Especially not if people make ludicrous arguments about far it's supposed to extend. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 3:41:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E0514D25 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:41:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:41:20 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Tani Hosokawa" Cc: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" , "David Kelly" , "Morten Seeberg" , Subject: RE: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:41:19 -0700 Message-ID: <000301beb652$7042c4b0$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I don't see as how the kernel module would be "stealing" from the kernel > at all. From a module's perspective, the kernel just has an API that it > has to conform to. In fact, a kernel module is only really a highly > specialized form of executable, and I think it would be inane to suggest > that all Linux executables be GPL'd because they happen to use various > kernel hooks in order to operate. Actually, I won't put words in his mouth, but the usual argument is that a module is not a 'work', but a part of one. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 3:46:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A77F914DB1 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:46:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04359; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:46:13 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:46:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: David Schwartz , David Kelly , Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 14 Jun 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Tani Hosokawa writes: > > What Dag > Dag-Erling, if you please. Ok. > > is thinking of, I assume, is the clause in the GPL that states > > that if a GPL'd component is included (bundled) with another product, the > > latter product must be GPL'd. It doesn't work in reverse, and I don't see > > the situation being the Linux kernel being bundled as part of the XFS > > package. > > No. Read the GPL, and read what RMS writes about it. Plugins and > loadable modules are derivative work, and must be under GPL. > > The specific example RMS used was that of a non-GPL GIMP plugin (which > he claims violates the GPL, under which GIMP is ditributed). He also > stated that the reverse (a GPL plugin to a commercial product, e.g. > Adobe PhotoShop) would violate the GPL. That's silly. XFS isn't a derivative work of Linux. They're two separate things. That's like claiming Pepsi is a derivative work of a ceramic cup that it happens to be in. The fact that it's in a plugin format is just glue to hold the two together in a convenient manner -- it could be done as in userland, as userfs has already proven, but an LKM is far more efficient. Regardless what RMS may think, that kind of thing just won't hold up. RMS is a bit of a twit in many issues. XFS is demonstrably a separate discrete product. just like any other kind of loadable software. Besides, the only people who could put a case together are the authors, of whom there is one copyright holder (Linus Torvalds) and I'm sure they could get a signed agreement stating he would sue them for not GPL'ing it. --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 3:51:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECFE114DB1 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04526; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:51:13 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:51:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: David Schwartz Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , David Kelly , Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-Reply-To: <000301beb652$7042c4b0$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, David Schwartz wrote: > > I don't see as how the kernel module would be "stealing" from the > kernel > at all. From a module's perspective, the kernel just has an > API that it > has to conform to. In fact, a kernel module is only > really a highly > specialized form of executable, and I think it would > be inane to suggest > that all Linux executables be GPL'd because they > happen to use various > kernel hooks in order to operate. > > Actually, I won't put words in his mouth, but the usual argument is that a > module is not a 'work', but a part of one. I still don't see how the XFS filesystem and the implementation of the XFS filesystem (both created by SGI for SGI with only SGI's resources) could be considered a derivative of Linux. If the only issue is the bundling of the XFS source code with Linux, then maybe it'll be necessary for people to download the XFS code separately. I certainly can't see SGI losing all its rights to its own filesystem just because they contributed it to Linux. Nobody wants that to happen. --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 4:53:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D4614C28 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:53:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:53:23 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Tani Hosokawa" Cc: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" , Subject: RE: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:53:23 -0700 Message-ID: <000001beb65c$812bf260$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I still don't see how the XFS filesystem and the implementation of the XFS > filesystem (both created by SGI for SGI with only SGI's resources) could > be considered a derivative of Linux. If the only issue is the bundling of > the XFS source code with Linux, then maybe it'll be necessary for people > to download the XFS code separately. I certainly can't see SGI losing all > its rights to its own filesystem just because they contributed it to > Linux. Nobody wants that to happen. Forgive me for making an argument with which I do not agree, but I think I can do it clearly: The XFS filesystem would not be useful alone, right? You would need the Linux kernel to use it. So the XFS filesystem is not a 'work'. The Linux kernel with the module loaded into it is one 'work'. This is clearly true if they were compiled together, but there is no legal distinction between compile time and link time. Again, if there's a better way to express it, please let me know. But any first-year law student can point out the 400 holes in this. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 5: 4: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from icicle.winternet.com (icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F1314C18 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:04:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com) Received: from tundra.winternet.com (nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11]) by icicle.winternet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23215; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:04:03 -0500 (CDT) SMTP "HELO" (ESMTP) greeting from tundra.winternet.com But _really_ from :: nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11] SMTP "MAIL From" = nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com (Nathan Ahlstrom) SMTP "RCPT To" = Received: (from nrahlstr@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA16046; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:02:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990614070238.A16020@winternet.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:02:38 -0500 From: Nathan Ahlstrom To: dpilgrim@uswest.net, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? Mail-Followup-To: dpilgrim@uswest.net, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <53763.929328485@zippy.cdrom.com> <3764A308.C0CE6AD4@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <3764A308.C0CE6AD4@uswest.net>; from dpilgrim@uswest.net on Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 11:36:56PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org dpilgrim@uswest.net wrote: > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > > > No committers/core person has ever met Bruce Evans? Is that right? > > > > No core people that I know of have. I'm not 100% positive about > > committers. > > My apologies if this is an old/stupid question, but how it is > possible that he can be part of core without having met any of the > other members? Has anyone at least spoken voice with him? Because...he kicks ass. Read the cvs lists. -- Nathan Ahlstrom FreeBSD: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ nrahlstr@winternet.com PGP Key ID: 0x67BC9D19 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 7:13:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A17152D2 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:13:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-39.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.39] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA03307; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:13:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37650E04.48CD6F3C@airnet.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:13:24 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Dillon Cc: "Stein B. Sylvarnes" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: P5 vs Celeron vs PII References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Dillon wrote: > All this might change when the AMD K7 comes out, though. :-) Let's > just hope the K7 lives up to what everybody has been hoping it will > be. 750MHzbeingbuiltnow Excuse me. -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 7:21:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 446CB15328 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA10830; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:22:45 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:22:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: Kris Kirby Cc: "Stein B. Sylvarnes" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: P5 vs Celeron vs PII In-Reply-To: <37650E04.48CD6F3C@airnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > Chris Dillon wrote: > > All this might change when the AMD K7 comes out, though. :-) Let's > > just hope the K7 lives up to what everybody has been hoping it will > > be. > > 750MHzbeingbuiltnow Anybody can crank clock rates up. I was speaking in terms of improved FPU, PIII-beating SIMD instructions, etc. We shall see after the first non-AMD benchmark. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and Alpha architectures (SPARC under development). ( http://www.freebsd.org ) "One should admire Windows users. It takes a great deal of courage to trust Windows with your data." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 7:21:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC0F915317 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:21:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-39.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.39] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA01483; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:21:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37650FF6.E1A0FA@airnet.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:21:42 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Kelly Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux References: <199906140306.WAA30138@nospam.hiwaay.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly wrote: > Then again I haven't run that many FreeBSD systems but have a similar > track record with filesystems. Prior to March 1995 I ran Linux until it > ate my filesystems 3 times in one week. Never could get Linux running > well enough to do any work. First week with FreeBSD was rough. But > clear sailing and all smiles ever since. Taken from a local Linux list: > Unfortunately another critical delivery has reared its ugly head and I'll > therefore miss another fest. If anyone runs across a solution to my problem > during the course of the fest, please let me know. The problem is this: > > Certain systems with a PIIX3 IDE chipset (VX motherboard) are susceptible to > filesystem/file corruption using kernel 2.2.x. I've tested 2.2.5 and 2.2.9. > Both will do damage. Other systems have been affected, but I haven't heard > of many. Kernel 2.0.36 is rock solid, so it is definately something someone > has done with the 2.2.x kernels. I have _two_ machines with the VX chipset I require to work correctly. This would be totally unacceptable for me. Trashing a 3.2G drive that is full of data is _not_ _good_. -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 7:23:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r37.bfm.org [208.18.213.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B018815340 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id JAA00234 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:23:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:22:37 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Diapers Message-ID: <19990614092237.A220@whizkidtech.net> References: <3.0.6.32.19990520200440.0099f280@mail85.pair.com> <3.0.6.32.19990520210101.0097c370@mail.bfm.org> <3744BF36.D3B5805A@nevaeh.com> <19990529205035.B291@whizkidtech.net> <3.0.6.32.19990601220834.009704e0@mail.bfm.org> <375871E9.FE44F843@nevaeh.com> <19990604230540.A768@whizkidtech.net> <37596835.42F6C2F8@nevaeh.com> <19990612204734.B262@whizkidtech.net> <376409A7.606F67E2@nevaeh.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <376409A7.606F67E2@nevaeh.com>; from Joe Price on Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 03:42:31PM -0400 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoth Dag-Erling Smorgrav on 14 Jun 1999 09:21:20 +0200 > As others have said before me, Bruce was doing Unix back when some of > us were still wearing diapers. Well, gee, some of use have been programming since before Unix was wearing diapers! :-) Adam, programming since 1965 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 7:24:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7378B1530D for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:24:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26842; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990614082039.046a2c30@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:24:23 -0600 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Tani Hosokawa From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux Cc: David Schwartz , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , David Kelly , Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:19 PM 6/14/99 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >No. Read the GPL, and read what RMS writes about it. Plugins and >loadable modules are derivative work, and must be under GPL. This is Stallman's attitude -- primarily because he crafted the GPL out of spite and malice toward commercial developers. However, I believe that the license under which Linux is published is not EXACTLY the GPL. It contains an exception for loadable kernel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 7:28:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C7A15322 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:28:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26906; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990614082805.044b4380@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:28:17 -0600 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Tani Hosokawa From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux Cc: David Schwartz , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , David Kelly , Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:19 PM 6/14/99 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >No. Read the GPL, and read what RMS writes about it. Plugins and >loadable modules are derivative work, and must be under GPL. This is Stallman's attitude -- primarily because he crafted the GPL out of spite and malice toward commercial developers. However, I believe that the license under which Linux is published is not EXACTLY the GPL. It contains an exception for loadable kernel modules (or LKMs). Of course, advocates of the GPL often take advantage of its size and confusing language to spread FUD about it. They represent it as "the" open source license and do not mention the exception for LKMs in Linux. They may hornswoggle SGI into releasing its code under the GPL when in fact this is not necessary. I would not put it past Stallman to do this; he seems to believe that the end justifies the means. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 8:44:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DA6D15275 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:44:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-101.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.101] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA28201; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:44:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37652341.F663700D@airnet.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:44:01 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Schwartz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux References: <000001beb65c$812bf260$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Schwartz wrote: > Forgive me for making an argument with which I do not agree, but I think I > can do it clearly: > > The XFS filesystem would not be useful alone, right? > > You would need the Linux kernel to use it. > > So the XFS filesystem is not a 'work'. The Linux kernel with the module > loaded into it is one 'work'. This is clearly true if they were compiled > together, but there is no legal distinction between compile time and link > time. > > Again, if there's a better way to express it, please let me know. But any > first-year law student can point out the 400 holes in this. I think we're all missing the point: They are releasing it for the wrong OS! -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 8:51:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from geocities.com (mail8.geocities.com [209.1.224.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C87B15275 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sylvarnes@geocities.com) Received: from hsf2510 ([158.37.10.109]) by geocities.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA24793; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990614175127.007a8a10@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: sylvarnes@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:51:27 +0200 To: Chris Dillon From: "Stein B. Sylvarnes" Subject: Re: P5 vs Celeron vs PII Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <37650E04.48CD6F3C@airnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:22 14.06.99 -0500, Chris Dillon wrote: >On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > >> Chris Dillon wrote: >> > All this might change when the AMD K7 comes out, though. :-) Let's >> > just hope the K7 lives up to what everybody has been hoping it will >> > be. >> >> 750MHzbeingbuiltnow > >Anybody can crank clock rates up. I was speaking in terms of improved >FPU, PIII-beating SIMD instructions, etc. We shall see after the >first non-AMD benchmark. :-) > There has been a few (Seen one and heard of at least one) benchmarks on the K7. The one I saw was on an engineering sample, but it should be pretty much like the one shipped... This is taken from memory: The results was a bit suprising, the K7 did well, but didn't take such an edge at fpu-heavy benchmarks as I had expected. When that is said, the test enviornment was a bit restricted, and it was stressed that the results wasnt too accurate. Still, I found the results a bit odd, and I don't think they did the K7 full justice. Do anyone know the URL to the page I'm talking about? It was published a few weeks ago on one of these hardware/gamer-sites. Stein B. Sylvarnes www.{Free, Net, Open}BSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 9:31:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from geocities.com (mail10.geocities.com [209.1.224.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F49A14DC7 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sylvarnes@geocities.com) Received: from hsf2510 ([158.37.10.109]) by geocities.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA14454; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990614183023.007adb90@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: sylvarnes@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:30:23 +0200 To: Chris Dillon From: "Stein B. Sylvarnes" Subject: Re: P5 vs Celeron vs PII Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >There has been a few (Seen one and heard of at least one) benchmarks on the >K7. The one I saw was on an engineering sample, but it should be pretty >much like the one shipped... > Pokin around in my out-box i found the url... Seems like I found the link at /. http://www.jc-news.com/pc/article.cgi?AMD/Curtain_Call_K7 So, see for yourself Stein B. Sylvarnes www.{Free, Net, Open}BSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 11:20:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E88C14EA6 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.31]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1EAE; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:18:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3765480D.EA3F465C@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:21:01 -0500 From: "Pedro Fernando Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es,en-US,it MIME-Version: 1.0 To: brian@pobox.com Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux References: <19990614100831.6933.rocketmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I agree with this opinion. Even when a marketing guy would recommend it, no lawyer with brain will adopt the GPL. SCO, for instance, didn't fall: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990614/ca_sco_ope_1.html However, I think I have found a fundamental flaw in the GPL (other than it's conception) that permits anyone to do whatever he wants with it. It's not the time to reveal it though...(I'd like to wait until the GPL is revised, and also a talk with a real lawyer would be useful :-) cheers, Pedro. Brian McGroarty escribió: > > The concept of linkage in offering XFS as a LKM is no different > than that for the sourceless device drivers offered by some > vendors, Creative Labs among. Presumably this has been through > their legal dept. > > Unless quite a few vendors are in for a nasty wake up call, DES > is correct below. > > Parting thought: Even if this were an issue, the GPL is still > untested in court. The concensus among many is that it won't > survive when it's eventually put to trial. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 13: 3:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB3AC15568 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:03:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24079; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:03:01 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:03:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Brett Glass Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , David Schwartz , David Kelly , Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990614082805.044b4380@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > At 12:19 PM 6/14/99 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > >No. Read the GPL, and read what RMS writes about it. Plugins and > >loadable modules are derivative work, and must be under GPL. > > This is Stallman's attitude -- primarily because he crafted the GPL > out of spite and malice toward commercial developers. > > However, I believe that the license under which Linux is published > is not EXACTLY the GPL. It contains an exception for loadable kernel > modules (or LKMs). > > Of course, advocates of the GPL often take advantage of its size > and confusing language to spread FUD about it. They represent it as "the" > open source license and do not mention the exception for LKMs in Linux. > They may hornswoggle SGI into releasing its code under the GPL when in > fact this is not necessary. I would not put it past Stallman to do this; > he seems to believe that the end justifies the means. " NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work". Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it." I don't know if LKM's use kernel services by normal system calls. I'm guessing they probably do, since they'll just tie into the VFS layer, which is just a set of hooks designed for plunking in filesystems. --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 13:58:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C3F715168 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:58:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pechter@shell.monmouth.com) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA15872; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:56:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199906142056.QAA15872@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: sar To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:56:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to slashdot: > SCO Open Sources System Activity Reporter > Posted by Hemos on Monday June 14, @01:14PM EDT > from the beginning-to-learn dept. > diabloii writes "SCO will license its System Activity Reporter (SAR) source > code to the open source community in cooperation with Starnix, Inc. SAR is > currently used to retrieve data for administering the UnixWare 7 System V > Release 5 (SVR5) kernel. SCO is hoping that the release of SAR will help > standardize kernel administrative. Read the press release here. Also more > info at freshmeat. " SAR will be released under the Mozilla license, under > the 2nd phase of the release. In the first phase, it will be ported to *BSD > and Linux, with the help of Starnix. Folks, this looks like a good thing for Sys Admins. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 14:50:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from kirk.giovannelli.it (kirk.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5435F14D4E; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:50:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from suzy (modem24.masternet.it [194.184.65.34]) by kirk.giovannelli.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA02108; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:49:57 GMT (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990614234133.00997c50@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@194.184.65.4 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:47:55 +0200 To: hardware@freebsd.org From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: M/B Intel Cc: chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd like to know if someone can provide me some feedback on FreeBSD and Intel N440BX mainboard. The board has 2 processor (PII) slot, an ethernet 10/100, a VGA (Cirrus 5480) and a SCSI (narrow and wide) built onboard. Any positive experiences ? Please for answer from hardware list reply to me directly too (I am not subscribed) Thanks ... Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 20:15:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F58A14E03 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:15:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-15-21.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.15.21]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA12164; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:14:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA35297; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:12:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199906150312.WAA35297@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "David Schwartz" , "Tani Hosokawa" , "Morten Seeberg" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-reply-to: Message from Dag-Erling Smorgrav of "14 Jun 1999 11:24:52 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:12:57 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > You've totally missed the point. Linux is under GPL. The GPL forbids > linking GPLed software with non-GPLed software. SGI can't develop XFS > for Linux without using Linux, and to use Linux they have to agree to > the terms of its license, which forbids them to release software that > links with Linux except under the GPL. Actually one can link any darn thing they wish against GPL code. Modify the heck out of GPL code. And according to GPL, never be obliged to "share" or "give back to the community." Its very simple: you never release the work outside of your company. The terms of GPL only apply when *precompiled* code is *distributed*. As long as it stays in-house you are still within the terms of GPL. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 20:15:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B6C15300 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:15:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-15-21.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.15.21]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA16336 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:15:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA34872 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:11:22 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199906150011.TAA34872@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-reply-to: Message from "David Schwartz" of "Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:53:23 PDT." <000001beb65c$812bf260$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:11:22 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "David Schwartz" writes: > > Forgive me for making an argument with which I do not agree, but I think I > can do it clearly: > > The XFS filesystem would not be useful alone, right? > > You would need the Linux kernel to use it. You would need to use *a* kernel to use it. SGI already uses it with Irix. So by the above argument, sendmail, XFree86, perl, etc, are all useless without a kernel to support them. Therefore they too must be infected with GPL? :-) Actually the big difference is that XFS is something that will be used *by* the kernel. While regular programs are something that *uses* the kernel. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 20:59:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857E214D1A for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:59:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18919; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:59:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:59:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sar In-Reply-To: <199906142056.QAA15872@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The SCO people are pretty knowledgable (I have a few people I know working in thier "skunkware" department). Ron Record himself is *BSD friendly as well as my friend Kean, who was the the only "SCOboy" at the FreeBSD dinner at USENIX =) -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > According to slashdot: > > > SCO Open Sources System Activity Reporter > > > Posted by Hemos on Monday June 14, @01:14PM EDT > > from the beginning-to-learn dept. > > diabloii writes "SCO will license its System Activity Reporter (SAR) source > > code to the open source community in cooperation with Starnix, Inc. SAR is > > currently used to retrieve data for administering the UnixWare 7 System V > > Release 5 (SVR5) kernel. SCO is hoping that the release of SAR will help > > standardize kernel administrative. Read the press release here. Also more > > info at freshmeat. " SAR will be released under the Mozilla license, under > > the 2nd phase of the release. In the first phase, it will be ported to *BSD > > and Linux, with the help of Starnix. > > Folks, this looks like a good thing for Sys Admins. > > Bill > > +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | > | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | > | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | > +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 21:11:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F06BB14D1A for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:11:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:11:24 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "David Kelly" , Subject: RE: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:11:24 -0700 Message-ID: <000001beb6e5$21f4f420$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <199906150011.TAA34872@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > "David Schwartz" writes: > > > > Forgive me for making an argument with which I do not > agree, but I think I > > can do it clearly: > > > > The XFS filesystem would not be useful alone, right? > > > > You would need the Linux kernel to use it. > > You would need to use *a* kernel to use it. SGI already uses it with > Irix. An XFS LKM will only work with a *Linux* kernel. We are talking about an LKM, not some generic piece of source code. > So by the above argument, sendmail, XFree86, perl, etc, are all useless > without a kernel to support them. Therefore they too must be infected > with GPL? :-) The sendmail code does not contain any part of the Linux kernel inside it. The argument would be (I think) that an LKM does. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 23:18:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE05514D90 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:18:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA19522; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:48:41 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id PAA75920; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:48:39 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:48:39 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Julian Elischer Cc: Nathan Ahlstrom , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? Message-ID: <19990615154838.O75176@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990613201345.D13826@winternet.com> <53763.929328485@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <53763.929328485@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:48:05PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 13 June 1999 at 19:48:05 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> No committers/core person has ever met Bruce Evans? Is that right? > > No core people that I know of have. I'm not 100% positive about > committers. Hasn't Julian met him? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 23:34: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB3E614F0C for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:33:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA19591; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:03:54 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id QAA76067; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:03:52 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:03:51 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Pat Lynch Cc: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sar Message-ID: <19990615160350.A76045@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199906142056.QAA15872@shell.monmouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Lynch on Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 11:59:40PM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 14 June 1999 at 23:59:40 -0400, Pat Lynch wrote: > On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > >> According to slashdot: >> >>> SCO Open Sources System Activity Reporter >> >>> Posted by Hemos on Monday June 14, @01:14PM EDT >>> from the beginning-to-learn dept. >>> diabloii writes "SCO will license its System Activity Reporter (SAR) source >>> code to the open source community in cooperation with Starnix, Inc. SAR is >>> currently used to retrieve data for administering the UnixWare 7 System V >>> Release 5 (SVR5) kernel. SCO is hoping that the release of SAR will help >>> standardize kernel administrative. Read the press release here. Also more >>> info at freshmeat. " SAR will be released under the Mozilla license, under >>> the 2nd phase of the release. In the first phase, it will be ported to *BSD >>> and Linux, with the help of Starnix. >> >> Folks, this looks like a good thing for Sys Admins. > > The SCO people are pretty knowledgable (I have a few people I know working > in thier "skunkware" department). Ron Record himself is *BSD friendly as > well as my friend Kean, who was the the only "SCOboy" at the > FreeBSD dinner at USENIX =) Right. I spoke to Ron about sar (amongst other things) at USENIX. I've also tried to bludgeon somebody into porting sar (I won't mention his name in order to give him a respectable way out if he changes his mind). Does anybody else want to have a go? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 23:36:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF84014F0C for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:36:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA25524; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:36:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Greg Lehey Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Nathan Ahlstrom , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? In-Reply-To: <19990615154838.O75176@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I believe that maybe john birrel may have.. I have not. On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sunday, 13 June 1999 at 19:48:05 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> No committers/core person has ever met Bruce Evans? Is that right? > > > > No core people that I know of have. I'm not 100% positive about > > committers. > > Hasn't Julian met him? > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 23:47:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B9014F0C; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:47:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA17773; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:10:37 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199906150710.RAA17773@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: bde? In-Reply-To: from Julian Elischer at "Jun 14, 1999 11:36:34 pm" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:10:37 +1000 (EST) Cc: grog@lemis.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, nrahlstr@winternet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Julian Elischer wrote: > I believe that maybe john birrel may have.. > I have not. Chuckle. Nope, me neither. In fact I'm not entirely sure he's a real person. He might actually be a computer program written by a computer program written by... If so, that would explain a lot. Instead of beating around the bush, why don't we just ask the man himself? > > > On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > On Sunday, 13 June 1999 at 19:48:05 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > >> No committers/core person has ever met Bruce Evans? Is that right? > > > > > > No core people that I know of have. I'm not 100% positive about > > > committers. > > > > Hasn't Julian met him? > > > > Greg > > -- > > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 23:51:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC9A214F0C for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA27641; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:51:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Tani Hosokawa Cc: Brett Glass , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , David Schwartz , David Kelly , Morten Seeberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 Jun 1999 08:51:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: Tani Hosokawa's message of "Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:03:01 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tani Hosokawa writes: > I don't know if LKM's use kernel services by normal system calls. I'm > guessing they probably do, since they'll just tie into the VFS layer, > which is just a set of hooks designed for plunking in filesystems. No, they don't. System calls only exist in userland. LKMs use kernel services by direct function calls. The only difference between a compiled-in driver and an LKM is when it's linked into the kernel. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 14 23:56:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A41715445 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:56:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA27774; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:56:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: David Kelly Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , "David Schwartz" , "Tani Hosokawa" , "Morten Seeberg" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux References: <199906150312.WAA35297@nospam.hiwaay.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 Jun 1999 08:56:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: David Kelly's message of "Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:12:57 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly writes: > Actually one can link any darn thing they wish against GPL code. Modify > the heck out of GPL code. And according to GPL, never be obliged to > "share" or "give back to the community." Its very simple: you never > release the work outside of your company. The terms of GPL only apply > when *precompiled* code is *distributed*. As long as it stays in-house > you are still within the terms of GPL. I think a lawyer could make a very good case of proving that internal distribution still constitutes distribution. You'd still have to GPL your code and distribute the source code with the binaries, whether you distribute it internally or externally. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 0: 9:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B902814D60 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:09:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA28099; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:09:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sar References: <199906142056.QAA15872@shell.monmouth.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 Jun 1999 09:09:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter's message of "Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:56:36 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bill/Carolyn Pechter writes: > | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | > | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | Bill Gates *is* a villain in a James Bond movie. Haven't you seen _Tomorrow Never Dies_? Who do you think Elliot Carver is modeled on? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 1: 0: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from agora.bafug.org (agora.bafug.org [206.24.106.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7499314D6E for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@agora.bafug.org) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by agora.bafug.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07038 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199906150800.BAA07038@agora.bafug.org> Subject: Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org San Francisco Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) has put up a web page of employers in the San Francisco Bay Area who are looking for employees, permanent or contact, who have FreeBSD skills. The URL is : http://www.bafug.org/BayAreaJobs.html Employers: The emphasis here is FreeBSD. The job you are advertising should have FreeBSD as a major component of the job. If you wish to advertise a job please send the URL to your web page with the job listings to jgrosch@MooseRiver.com. Employees: When contacting these employers please tell them that you saw this job listing on the Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs page. Josef -- $Id: BayAreaFreeBSDJobs.txt,v 1.1 1999/03/19 09:51:06 jgrosch Exp jgrosch $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 1: 0: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from agora.bafug.org (agora.bafug.org [206.24.106.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A74014D6E for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@agora.bafug.org) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by agora.bafug.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07077 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199906150800.BAA07077@agora.bafug.org> Subject: FreeBSD Counter Page To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Counter Project The FreeBSD Counter project and BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) have put up the first public beta of its counter page. The Counter project is an attempt to gauge the installed base of FreeBSD. We current do not have a very good idea as to what is our installed base, how FreeBSD is being used and by whom. Because of this, FreeBSD is at a disadvantage when talking to ISVs and hardware and software vendors. You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can be found at : http://www.bafug.org/FbsdCounter.html Couple of caveats: * Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the project, FreeBSD core group, and Walnut Creek CDROM will ever see this information. It will _NOT_ be handed over to spammers, direct marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos. * Suggestions and comments are welcome! * The database behind this page was built from the email registrations sent to Walnut Creek. If you registered at the time of an install chances are you are in this database. This is posted every 1st and 15th of the month. Josef (jgrosch@MooseRiver.com) -- $Id: CounterPageAnnounce.txt,v 1.1 1999/03/19 09:51:06 jgrosch Exp jgrosch $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 1: 0:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from agora.bafug.org (agora.bafug.org [206.24.106.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D291557D for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@agora.bafug.org) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by agora.bafug.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07098 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199906150800.BAA07098@agora.bafug.org> Subject: Bay Area Install-A-Thon To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Install-A-Thon BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) will hold it's monthly Install-A-Thon in conjunction with the Robert Austin computer show on and June 12th at the Oakland Convention Center. The purpose of these Install-A-Thons is for new and experienced user to meet and solve problem they are having with FreeBSD. It is also a time to promote FreeBSD to potential users. The Oakland Convention Center is in downtown Oakland on the corner of 10th street and Clay Street. There is come on the street parking but your best bet is lot parking. The Cow Palace is in Daly City on the corner of Geneva and Santos. Parking is $5.00. Street parking is available but _VERY_ limited. Admission to the show is $5.00 unless you have a VIP pass. VIP passes can be gotten at Robert Austin's web page (http://www.robertaustin.com). The show hours are 10:00am to 4:00pm. We will be meeting at the Cow Palace or the Oakland convention center, respectively at 9:00am to setup and will be there till 4 when the show closes. Tear down usually takes about 30 minutes. If you are interested in helping please contact Josef Grosch - jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Nicole Harrington - nicole@mediacity.com More information about the show can be found at http://www.bafug.org/Install.html -- $Id: InstallAnnounce.txt,v 1.4 1999/06/01 06:23:40 jgrosch Exp $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 1: 0:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from agora.bafug.org (agora.bafug.org [206.24.106.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F19815598 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@agora.bafug.org) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by agora.bafug.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07115 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199906150800.BAA07115@agora.bafug.org> Subject: FreeBSD Retail Page To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:00:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Retail outlets for FreeBSD A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at http://www.bafug.org/Retail.html Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email, and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD. This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th. -- $Id: RetailAnnounce.txt,v 1.1 1999/03/19 09:51:06 jgrosch Exp jgrosch $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 1:44:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from opi.flirtbox.ch (unknown [62.48.0.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AE48D14DC8 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:44:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oppermann@pipeline.ch) Received: (qmail 79752 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 08:44:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pipeline.ch) (195.134.128.41) by opi.flirtbox.ch with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 08:44:47 -0000 Message-ID: <37661276.18A30C7F@pipeline.ch> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:44:38 +0200 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Victory for the BSD license Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The OpenLDAP project switched on June 7 from an derived artistic license to BSD license like terms. Check it out at: http://www.openldap.org/devel/cvsweb.cgi/LICENSE.diff?r1=1.10&r2=1.11&hideattic=1&sortbydate=0&f=h It is a dark day for RMS, ESR and thinkalikes but a bright day for really free software! It looks like more an more people see the dark side of the force (GPL). -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 3:33: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA9C14D1D for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:32:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from mips.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id MAA29056 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:32:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: by mips.rhein-neckar.de id m10tpev-000WyYC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:37:33 +0200 (CEST) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: bde? Date: 15 Jun 1999 11:37:30 +0200 Message-ID: <7k56sq$25j$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> References: <19990613201345.D13826@winternet.com> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nathan Ahlstrom wrote: > No committers/core person has ever met Bruce Evans? For us poor users who are neither core nor committers: just how does Bruce Evans fit into the FreeBSD development crowd and process? What does he do? -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de carpe librum: books 'n' reviews To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 3:54:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D231F14DFB for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:57:40 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C110027617966A@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Josef Karthauser' , Roger Hardiman Cc: "'chat@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: IR Remote for AverMedia and FlyVideo Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:52:04 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Josef Karthauser [SMTP:joe@pavilion.net] > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 12:25 PM > To: Roger Hardiman > Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; sos@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: IR Remote for AverMedia and FlyVideo > [ML] redirected to chat > Hi Roger, > > I've got a phototransistor plugged into my DTR line on the serial > port. Is there any working software for FreeBSD for utilising this? > (I want to never lose a remote control again!) > > Joe > [ML] Hey, Joe, I have this awsome looking pair of mirrored shades, is there a driver for FreeBSD capable of utilizing them as a DWIM interface[1]? /Marino [1] Do What I Mean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 4:11:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ren.detir.qld.gov.au (ns.detir.qld.gov.au [203.46.81.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77217154FE; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:11:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from syssgm@detir.qld.gov.au) Received: by ren.detir.qld.gov.au; id VAA08361; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:10:04 +1000 (EST) Received: from ogre.detir.qld.gov.au(167.123.8.3) by ren.detir.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma008350; Tue, 15 Jun 99 21:09:47 +1000 Received: from atlas.detir.qld.gov.au (atlas.detir.qld.gov.au [167.123.8.9]) by ogre.detir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23107; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:09:46 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.detir.qld.gov.au (nymph.detir.qld.gov.au [167.123.10.10]) by atlas.detir.qld.gov.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21227; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:09:45 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.detir.qld.gov.au (localhost.detir.qld.gov.au [127.0.0.1]) by nymph.detir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11200; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:09:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from syssgm@nymph.detir.qld.gov.au) Message-Id: <199906151109.VAA11200@nymph.detir.qld.gov.au> To: John Birrell Cc: grog@lemis.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, nrahlstr@winternet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@detir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: bde? References: <199906150710.RAA17773@cimlogic.com.au> In-Reply-To: <199906150710.RAA17773@cimlogic.com.au> from John Birrell at "Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:10:37 +1000" Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:09:44 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 15th June 1999, John Birrell wrote: >Julian Elischer wrote: >> I believe that maybe john birrel may have.. >> I have not. > >Chuckle. Nope, me neither. In fact I'm not entirely sure he's a real >person. He might actually be a computer program written by a computer >program written by... If so, that would explain a lot. [Looks conspiratorially from side to side and whispers...] I've spoken with someone who says he has met bde. But I've lost his address. So, I've got at least second-hand evidence. And now, you all have third hand evidence. But what evidence do you have that I exist? And how do you know you are really here either? Is this enough to start a religion? ;-) Stephen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 4:20:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E7B14A0B for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:20:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA33753; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:20:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? References: <19990613201345.D13826@winternet.com> <7k56sq$25j$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 Jun 1999 13:20:47 +0200 In-Reply-To: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de's message of "15 Jun 1999 11:37:30 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 39 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes: > Nathan Ahlstrom wrote: > > No committers/core person has ever met Bruce Evans? > For us poor users who are neither core nor committers: just how does > Bruce Evans fit into the FreeBSD development crowd and process? What > does he do? Like Nathan says, he kicks ass :) Specifically, he kicks committers' asses if they commit incorrect, inelegant or poorly formatted patches. In a sense, he's our QA guy. Guardian of style(9). The Bruce Filter. To brucify means to commit a style fix after Bruce has pointed out style or formatting bugs in a previous commit. Brucifixion is what happens to you when Bruce has to explain to you why your commit was wrong, in such detail that you feel like a kid whose father sighs deeply, sits down and patiently expounds the error of your ways, and can almost hear his sigh across 12,000 miles of ocean and mountains. To (mis)quote John Lennon: Well, you know it ain't easy, You know how hard it can be; The way things are going They're gonna brucify me! We all love him, though he's hard to get used to at first. In the words of Jordan Hubbard (from an IRC conversation between Jordan, Eivind and myself about the teachings of Our Prophet Bruce): [12:46] _DES: The Book of Bruce has only one sentence in it, and it says "the actual directives of my cult are left as an exercise for the reader. Good luck." [12:47] jkh: does it really include the 'good luck' part? [12:47] EE: OK, I made that part up. [12:47] EE: I figured it should sound a bit more cheery than how Bruce initially dictated it to me. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 4:55:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB40A14C82 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:55:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.9.2/8.8.8) id MAA97485; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:55:22 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from joe) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:55:21 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Ladavac Marino Cc: Roger Hardiman , "'chat@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: IR Remote for AverMedia and FlyVideo Message-ID: <19990615125521.B71377@pavilion.net> References: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C110027617966A@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C110027617966A@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at>; from Ladavac Marino on Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 12:52:04PM +0200 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Organisation: Pavilion Internet plc, 24 The Old Steine, Brighton, BN1 1EL, England Phone: +44-845-333-5000 Fax: +44-845-333-5001 Mobile: +44-403-596893 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 12:52:04PM +0200, Ladavac Marino wrote: > > Hi Roger, > > > > I've got a phototransistor plugged into my DTR line on the serial > > port. Is there any working software for FreeBSD for utilising this? > > (I want to never lose a remote control again!) > > > > Joe > > > [ML] Hey, Joe, > I have this awsome looking pair of mirrored shades, is there a > driver for FreeBSD capable of utilizing them as a DWIM interface[1]? > > /Marino > > [1] Do What I Mean Thanx Marino. Nice to know that I've got a sense of humour ! I've currently working with a Linux package called LIRC for reading and writing infrared signals directly, as well as with the kinds of devices that Roger is playing with. It's a bit of a pain because it was written for Linux Only! Once I've finished the infrared transmission code I'm sure that I can find enough SpareTime[TM] to interface with your MirrorShades. Do you need it at kernel level, or will a user level process do? Joe -- Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 5: 6:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F79414CF9 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 05:06:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:09:17 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C110027617966F@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Josef Karthauser' , Ladavac Marino Cc: Roger Hardiman , "'chat@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: IR Remote for AverMedia and FlyVideo Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:03:43 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Josef Karthauser [SMTP:joe@pavilion.net] > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 1:55 PM > To: Ladavac Marino > Cc: Roger Hardiman; 'chat@freebsd.org' > Subject: Re: IR Remote for AverMedia and FlyVideo > > > > I've got a phototransistor plugged into my DTR line on the serial > > > port. Is there any working software for FreeBSD for utilising > this? > > > (I want to never lose a remote control again!) > Thanx Marino. Nice to know that I've got a sense of humour ! > [ML] Seriously, now. Are you trying to use the DTR line as a transmitter? Somewhere in my basement should be the docs concerning the Philips 5-bit infrared standard; I'm not certain whether one can match the required rate by toggling the DTR. [ML] /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 5:27:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web108.yahoomail.com (web108.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BEC8414D2D for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 05:27:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thallgren@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19990615122805.2841.rocketmail@web108.yahoomail.com> Received: from [131.116.188.217] by web108.yahoomail.com; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 05:28:05 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 05:28:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Hallgren Subject: Re: bde? To: Stephen McKay , John Birrell Cc: grog@lemis.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, nrahlstr@winternet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@detir.qld.gov.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org /me hands Stephen a "I almost met BDE" t-shirt :-) --- Stephen McKay wrote: > On Tuesday, 15th June 1999, John Birrell wrote: > > >Julian Elischer wrote: > >> I believe that maybe john birrel may have.. > >> I have not. > > > >Chuckle. Nope, me neither. In fact I'm not entirely sure he's a real > >person. He might actually be a computer program written by a computer > >program written by... If so, that would explain a lot. > > [Looks conspiratorially from side to side and whispers...] > > I've spoken with someone who says he has met bde. But I've lost his > address. So, I've got at least second-hand evidence. And now, you all > have third hand evidence. But what evidence do you have that I exist? > And how do you know you are really here either? Is this enough to start > a religion? ;-) > > Stephen. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > === Regards, Tommy Hallgren Briljantg. 31, SE-421 49, Göteborg Tel.: 031 - 770 5232 (Work: Telia Prosoft) Tel.: 0709 - 312 404 (GSM) Tel.: 031 - 47 65 28 (Home) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 5:28:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5844B14D2D for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 05:28:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.9.2/8.8.8) id NAA05789; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:28:08 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from joe) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:28:08 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Ladavac Marino Cc: Roger Hardiman , "'chat@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: IR Remote for AverMedia and FlyVideo Message-ID: <19990615132808.C71377@pavilion.net> References: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C110027617966F@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C110027617966F@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at>; from Ladavac Marino on Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 02:03:43PM +0200 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Organisation: Pavilion Internet plc, 24 The Old Steine, Brighton, BN1 1EL, England Phone: +44-845-333-5000 Fax: +44-845-333-5001 Mobile: +44-403-596893 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 02:03:43PM +0200, Ladavac Marino wrote: > [ML] Seriously, now. Are you trying to use the DTR line as a > transmitter? Somewhere in my basement should be the docs concerning the > Philips 5-bit infrared standard; I'm not certain whether one can match > the required rate by toggling the DTR. > [ML] /Marino Well the people in the Linux camp think so. It's a 30-40khz signal, which should be possible on the DTR line, using ioctl calls. The main problem is getting the timings accurate enough. My first tack was using usleep, which didn't work. Now I hard loop around a gettimeofday call, with the intention of running at a rtprio. Joe -- Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 7:27: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5579155CE for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:26:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id HAA37273 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:26:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:26:57 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: (CORRECTION) Bay Area Install-A-Thon Message-ID: <19990615072657.E37039@ontario.mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Install-A-Thon (CORRECTION) BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) will hold it's monthly Install-A-Thon in conjunction with the Robert Austin computer show on and July 17th at the Cow Palace in Daly City. The purpose of these Install-A-Thons is for new and experienced user to meet and solve problem they are having with FreeBSD. It is also a time to promote FreeBSD to potential users. The Cow Palace is in Daly City on the corner of Geneva and Santos. Parking is $5.00. Street parking is available but _VERY_ limited. Admission to the show is $5.00 unless you have a VIP pass. VIP passes can be gotten at Robert Austin's web page (http://www.robertaustin.com). The show hours are 10:00am to 4:00pm. We will be meeting at the Cow Palace at 9:00am to setup and will be there till 4:00pm when the show closes. Tear down usually takes about 30 minutes. If you are interested in helping please contact Josef Grosch - jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Nicole Harrington - nicole@mediacity.com More information about the show can be found at http://www.bafug.org/Install.html -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 7:48: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1759B15421 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:47:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:50:39 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179671@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Nick Hibma' , Roger Hardiman Cc: "'chat@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: Announcing PicoBSD 0.44 for -current Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:45:05 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Hibma [SMTP:nick.hibma@jrc.it] > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 4:41 PM > To: Roger Hardiman > Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Announcing PicoBSD 0.44 for -current > > > Congrats and thanks! > > Is there also a version available that fits on 720kb floppies :-] > [ML] How about a version that fits on a stack of Hollerith cards? I want to run it on my 1130 (and before you ask, no I don't have one, reliable sources have it that the very last one was decommissioned in 1986, in my alma mater). /Marino > Nick > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 7:58:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ideaglobal.com (ultra2.ideaglobal.com [194.36.20.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7684015627; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kiril@ideaglobal.com) Received: (from kiril@localhost) by ideaglobal.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id PAA08670; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:52:52 +0100 (BST) From: Kiril Mitev Message-Id: <199906151452.PAA08670@ideaglobal.com> Subject: Re: Linux not FreeBSD? To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:52:51 +0100 (BST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael C. Vergallen" at Jun 15, 99 04:53:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Greg Shenaut wrote: > > I had a nightmare: Intuit finally decides to support a *nix version > > of Quicken. Rejoicing, I get out the lighter fluid, ready to > > ceremonially burn my last M$ machine. Then I find out that Intuit > > will only support a Linux version, which won't run under FreeBSD. > > Yes but unfortunatly this could happen because the FreeBSD community does > not have "Big commercial names" behind them and no commercial entity > behind them to promote it as a viable alternative...I personally find this > to be rediculous but... > > Michael Well, the F-BSD community could try to recruit Sybase :-). Not having Sybase for f-bsd is my personal gripe, sorry :-)))) (cant set follow-ups, sorry) Kiril > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 8:24:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cons.org (knight.cons.org [194.233.237.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3FA15393 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:24:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cracauer@cons.org) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by cons.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id RAA02961 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:24:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:24:12 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Singleuser cron, anyone? Message-ID: <19990615172412.A2953@cons.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The subject sais it all: I need a cron-like program, just that it should not bother with different users. Just run as the user that started it, execute commands as specified in a single table, enviroment unchanged. I looked into Vixie's cron, but it isn't excatly modular. I can't easily reuse the crontab/scheduling code without the userid management, the whole parsed table organization is multiuser-oriented. Any ideas? Thanks Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 8:59:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from point.osg.gov.bc.ca (point.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.102.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10CB714EFE for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:59:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by point.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.8.7/8.8.8) id IAA00521; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:59:30 -0700 Received: from passer.osg.gov.bc.ca(142.32.110.29) via SMTP by point.osg.gov.bc.ca, id smtpda00519; Tue Jun 15 08:59:18 1999 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA95677; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906151559.IAA95677@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca> Received: from localhost.osg.gov.bc.ca(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "passer.osg.gov.bc.ca" via SMTP by localhost.osg.gov.bc.ca, id smtpdF95663; Tue Jun 15 08:58:51 1999 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 Reply-To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group X-OS: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE X-Sender: cschuber To: Alexander Langer Cc: "Michael C. Vergallen" , gkshenaut@ucdavis.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux not FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:51:38 +0200." <19990615175138.A2300@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:58:51 -0700 From: Cy Schubert Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <19990615175138.A2300@cichlids.cichlids.com>, Alexander = Langer write s: > Thus spake Michael C. Vergallen (mvergall@double-barrel.be): > = > > Yes but unfortunatly this could happen because the FreeBSD community = does > > not have "Big commercial names" behind them and no commercial entity > > behind them to promote it as a viable alternative...I personally find= this > > to be rediculous but... > = > Does the FreeBSD community want this? > = > Such a user hype as there is on linux brings much people who never > think of reading a handbook etc. On the other hand a large user base does help ensure the longevity = of FreeBSD. Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 Open Systems Group Internet: Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca ITSD Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca Province of BC = "e**(i*pi)+1=3D0" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 9:11:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEF28155B6 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:11:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id SAA08293; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:12:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id SAA46617; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:21:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990615182119.49792@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:21:19 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Tommy Hallgren Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? References: <19990615122805.2841.rocketmail@web108.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19990615122805.2841.rocketmail@web108.yahoomail.com>; from Tommy Hallgren on Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 05:28:05AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tommy Hallgren writes: > /me hands Stephen a "I almost met BDE" t-shirt > bde plushies, anyone ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 9:19:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4671537B for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:19:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA66486; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:19:02 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Josef Grosch Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: (CORRECTION) Bay Area Install-A-Thon Message-ID: <19990615091902.A66337@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990615072657.E37039@ontario.mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990615072657.E37039@ontario.mooseriver.com>; from Josef Grosch on Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 07:26:57AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 07:26:57AM -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: > The Cow Palace is in Daly City on the corner of Geneva and Santos. Parking > is $5.00. Street parking is available but _VERY_ limited. You know, this weekend I was in that neck of the woods for the first time, and I would have sworn that I was mis-reading all of those freeway signs that said "Cow Palace". -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * of matter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 9:31:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCFB414D8D for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:31:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA40860; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:31:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Phil Regnauld Cc: Tommy Hallgren , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? References: <19990615122805.2841.rocketmail@web108.yahoomail.com> <19990615182119.49792@ns.int.ftf.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 Jun 1999 18:31:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: Phil Regnauld's message of "Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:21:19 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Phil Regnauld writes: > Tommy Hallgren writes: > > /me hands Stephen a "I almost met BDE" t-shirt > bde plushies, anyone ? Hmmm... I suppose I could use one as a voodoo doll whenever I'm subjected to a particularly nasty brucifixion :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 11: 2:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [194.77.0.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3692E14DDD for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA09929 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:02:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA95742 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:01:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:01:57 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD && Music -> http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/mp3/schaukel.mp3 Message-ID: <19990615200151.A95478@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wanna hear our new song ? More infos: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/mp3/#Band Hope you like it, please mail some positive responses ;-) mailto:andreas@klemm.gtn.com,siggi@universe-architecture.com Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD Latest song from our band: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/mp3/schaukel.mp3 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 12:10:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485FF14CE0; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:10:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bde@godzilla.zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA25283; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 05:10:43 +1000 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 05:10:43 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199906151910.FAA25283@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jb@cimlogic.com.au, syssgm@detir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: bde? Cc: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, nrahlstr@winternet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >I've spoken with someone who says he has met bde. But I've lost his >address. So, I've got at least second-hand evidence. And now, you all >have third hand evidence. But what evidence do you have that I exist? >And how do you know you are really here either? Is this enough to start >a religion? ;-) I've spoken with someone who says he knows Stephen McKay. So now, you all have fifth hand self referential evidence that he exists :-). Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 12:26:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4E114F9B for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id EAA22708; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 04:56:51 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id EAA02616; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 04:56:50 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 04:56:49 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? Message-ID: <19990616045649.E521@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990613201345.D13826@winternet.com> <7k56sq$25j$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 01:20:47PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 15 June 1999 at 13:20:47 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes: >> Nathan Ahlstrom wrote: >>> No committers/core person has ever met Bruce Evans? >> For us poor users who are neither core nor committers: just how does >> Bruce Evans fit into the FreeBSD development crowd and process? What >> does he do? > > Like Nathan says, he kicks ass :) > > Specifically, he kicks committers' asses if they commit incorrect, > inelegant or poorly formatted patches. In a sense, he's our QA guy. > Guardian of style(9). The Bruce Filter. To brucify means to commit a > style fix after Bruce has pointed out style or formatting bugs in a > previous commit. Not necessarily. You could anticipate his wishes. From /sys/dev/vinum/vinumstate.c: revision 1.10 date: 1999/02/11 06:44:46; author: grog; state: Exp; lines: +48 -37 Correct some indentation Implicitly-desired-by: bde Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 14:20:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0370114C4C for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:20:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14702; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd014500; Tue Jun 15 14:19:58 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA23401; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:19:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199906152119.OAA23401@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux To: des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:19:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: davids@webmaster.com, des@flood.ping.uio.no, unknown@riverstyx.net, dkelly@hiwaay.net, morten@seeberg.dk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" at Jun 14, 99 11:24:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You've totally missed the point. Linux is under GPL. The GPL forbids > linking GPLed software with non-GPLed software. SGI can't develop XFS > for Linux without using Linux, and to use Linux they have to agree to > the terms of its license, which forbids them to release software that > links with Linux except under the GPL. This does not apply to runtime linking, as employed by kernel modules. Read the Linux License terms specifically. Caldera ships a number of binary-only modules in support of the NetWare for UNIX server on Linux (I know; I worked on that code at Novell, and I worked with the guys who formed Caldera before they left to form it, and I worked with the guy who later did the NWU port to Linux). Kernel modules are allowed to treat the kernel as if it were an LGPL'ed shared library. Now the LGPL doesn't explictly acknowledge dynamic linking, but that's not really an issue for anything but standard shared libraries containing agregate initialized non zero-fill-BSS data. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 14:33:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C5021541E for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:33:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22038; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:33:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd021849; Tue Jun 15 14:33:08 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA24192; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:33:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199906152133.OAA24192@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux To: davids@webmaster.com (David Schwartz) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:33:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <000001beb6e5$21f4f420$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> from "David Schwartz" at Jun 14, 99 09:11:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > An XFS LKM will only work with a *Linux* kernel. We are talking about an > LKM, not some generic piece of source code. It doesn't matter. So long as they don't distribute it linked with the Linux kernel, then it's not a problem. Red Hat, on the other hand, _may_ have a hard time distributing it as the boot file system for Linux, since it would require linking. You can basically link code under any license with code under any other license, so long as the license doesn't prohibit it. The GPL merely prohibits distribution of the post-linkage code under a license other than GPL. For runtime linkage as a Linux kernel module, this is not a problem. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 14:43:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD57E14C2E for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:43:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06808; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 05:43:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Terry Lambert Cc: David Schwartz , dkelly@hiwaay.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-Reply-To: <199906152133.OAA24192@usr01.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Naw, RedHat distros all ship with an initrd, so they can load LKM's like filesystems dynamically without requiring a pre-existing accessible filesystem. They don't static link most of their modules. On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > An XFS LKM will only work with a *Linux* kernel. We are talking about an > > LKM, not some generic piece of source code. > > It doesn't matter. > > So long as they don't distribute it linked with the Linux kernel, > then it's not a problem. > > Red Hat, on the other hand, _may_ have a hard time distributing it > as the boot file system for Linux, since it would require linking. > > You can basically link code under any license with code under any > other license, so long as the license doesn't prohibit it. The > GPL merely prohibits distribution of the post-linkage code under > a license other than GPL. > > For runtime linkage as a Linux kernel module, this is not a > problem. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 19:22:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from limbo.rtfm.net (limbo.rtfm.net [216.44.71.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F5A151A2 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:21:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nathan@limbo.rtfm.net) Received: (from nathan@localhost) by limbo.rtfm.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA51929 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:21:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from nathan) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:21:21 -0400 From: Nathan Dorfman To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: european internet access? Message-ID: <19990615222121.A46042@rtfm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'll be spending the summer in St. Marinella, Italy (a small town outside of Rome). I'll have my (FreeBSD!) laptop with me, so I'd like to find out if there's a way to get online. Is regular dial-up PPP used in Italy as well? If so, where can I find some kind of adapter to plug the phone line into my modem (RJ11)? If not, how else can I get online, and what kind of hardware do I need to buy? And of course, contact info for service providers around there would help as well. Internet Cafes that let you plug into the ethernet instead of using their pre-setup lose98/MSIE boxen would be great as well. I'm leaving on the 29th of June (two weeks from today). As usual, I've lost track of time and neglected to make this post on time, so speedy answers would be greatly appreciated ;( Thanks, -- Nathan Dorfman The statements and opinions in my Unix Admin @ Frontline Communications public posts are mine, not FCC's. "The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching train." --/usr/games/fortune To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 21:53:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from arutam.inch.com (ns.inch.com [207.240.140.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0A11550D for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:53:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freyes@inch.com) Received: from your-name (TC4-dial-201-215.oldslip.inch.com [207.240.215.201]) by arutam.inch.com (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA07807 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:53:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906160453.AAA07807@arutam.inch.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:55:12 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Suggestion where to buy computer Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In the coming months I plan to get a second computer from home. Any recommendations regarding vendors? I have bought a few computers in the past from www.atipa.com, but they have now become Atipa Linux Solutions and even dropped the FreeBSD logo from their site. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 15 22:14: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C54155BB for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:14:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA25028; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:43:58 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA00486; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:44:01 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:44:00 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Christiane Yeardley Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Urgent Stallion Help Needed Message-ID: <19990616144400.A435@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990616060720.Q521@freebie.lemis.com> <37672062.89C3B283@aeon-systems.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <37672062.89C3B283@aeon-systems.com>; from Christiane Yeardley on Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 01:56:18PM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 16 June 1999 at 13:56:18 +1000, Christiane Yeardley wrote: > Greg, > >> Chris, can you help? :-) >> >> Greg > ..... >>> I have been running a Stallion EasyConnection 8/64-AT (ISA) with 1 module >>> with out any problems. Now I have added a second 16port module, and when I >>> run stlload it reports: >>> >>> /kernel STALLION: Slave unable to allocate required memory for all modules, >>> devices=17 > > Yeah, got a few stallion modules myself as you know, I also found that > adding another module can cause problems |-) . I'm sure the individual > modules can run out of memory and certain parts of the programming get > lost as they go into conflict mode. > > The answer: don't flog a (brain-)dead horse, update the module > programming, add a driver and give it a few test runs. Then you can > recommence normal operations and you will find that all tasks are > performed correctly. > > Unfortunately stallion connections are notoriously unstable and liable > to cause trouble at any time. They are particularly prone to > interference during the warmer months of the year and you should ensure > that the modules are well shielded during that time. The more frequent > connections your stallion modules have with recipient modules the > greater the likelihood of program loss. Do avoid to add additional > stallion modules during this time in particular. > > Should you have any further questions please do no hesitate to contact: > > The Stallion Connection Experts! > > (now please don't send that one on to the poor bloke ;-) ) OK, I'll send it to the FreeBSD-chat list instead :-) > Christiane > > -- > NARRAWIN - Sporthorse and Gaited Horse Stud > *** > Christiane & David Yeardley > P.O. Box 943, Bega NSW 2550, Australia > PH (02) 6492 7172 Int'l +61 2 6492 7172 > FAX (02) 6492 7354 Mobile 018 106299 > chris@aeon-systems.com > http://www.aeon-systems.com/narrawin/ Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 0:16:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fep02-svc.tin.it (mta02-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E0614F0A for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:16:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from molter@tin.it) Received: from nympha.ecomotor.it ([212.216.61.85]) by fep02-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19990616071623.BAHB26705.fep02-svc@nympha.ecomotor.it> for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:16:23 +0200 Received: (qmail 874 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Jun 1999 07:14:44 -0000 From: "Marco Molteni" Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:14:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: molter@localhost To: Nathan Dorfman Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: european internet access? In-Reply-To: <19990615222121.A46042@rtfm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Nathan, On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Nathan Dorfman wrote: [..] > Is regular dial-up PPP used in Italy as well? If so, where can I find some > kind of adapter to plug the phone line into my modem (RJ11)? If not, how > else can I get online, and what kind of hardware do I need to buy? And of > course, contact info for service providers around there would help as well. Sure, we use PPP in Italy (and ISDN too) ;-) New telephones come with a plug into which you can insert a rj11 plug, ie: telephone box -- rj11 plug -- cable -- rj11 plug -- telephone plug -- wall socket ^ so you insert your plug here------------------------| if you'll have an old telephone, I think you can find an adapter in a normal shop who sells electricity appliances (aargh my english, I hope you understand ;-) Regarding ISP, maybe your best bet is to find a free 1-month subscription, which are pretty common in computer magazines (try "PC professionale") National-wide ISP (connection speed ugly at night) are TIN (www.tin.it), Tiscali (maybe www.tiscalinet.it or similar), Infostrada (www.infostrada.it) Or, you can find a local to Santa Marinella ISP, by looking in the italian Yellow Pages ("Pagine Gialle", www.paginegialle.it) under "internet". > Internet Cafes that let you plug into the ethernet instead of using their > pre-setup lose98/MSIE boxen would be great as well. mmh, don't know about it. You'll have to try. Enjoy your stay in our sunny Italy Marco --- If we want to avoid zombies, we have to wait for our children. -- W. R. Stevens To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 0:34:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E9115682 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:34:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA76716; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:33:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? References: <19990613201345.D13826@winternet.com> <7k56sq$25j$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> <19990616045649.E521@freebie.lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 16 Jun 1999 09:33:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Wed, 16 Jun 1999 04:56:49 +0930" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > Not necessarily. You could anticipate his wishes. From > /sys/dev/vinum/vinumstate.c: > > revision 1.10 > date: 1999/02/11 06:44:46; author: grog; state: Exp; lines: +48 -37 > Correct some indentation > > Implicitly-desired-by: bde Hmm. Preventive brucification. Nice :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 0:35:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web106.yahoomail.com (web106.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 95CA714E37 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thallgren@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19990616073528.14773.rocketmail@web106.yahoomail.com> Received: from [131.116.188.217] by web106.yahoomail.com; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:35:28 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:35:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: Suggestion where to buy computer To: Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org But they still uses it. :-) http://www.netcraft.com/cgi-bin/Survey/whats?host=www.atipa.com www.atipa.com is running Apache/1.3b5 on FreeBSD Regards, Tommy --- Francisco Reyes wrote: > In the coming months I plan to get a second computer > from home. > > Any recommendations regarding vendors? > I have bought a few computers in the past from > www.atipa.com, but they > have now become Atipa Linux > Solutions and even dropped the FreeBSD logo from > their site. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the > message > === _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 0:53: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C79915171; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:53:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA77150; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:52:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Warner Losh Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New Attack via sendmail? References: <199906151811.MAA93541@harmony.village.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 16 Jun 1999 09:52:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: Warner Losh's message of "Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:11:10 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [from -security] Warner Losh writes: > True. It looked from the logs like it was happening often, so looking > at the server in a most-mortum fassion may also be a benefit. ------------------- Don't type with food in your mouth! :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 1:11:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69BF11531A for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 01:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.185]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1210; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:11:43 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12321; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:12:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:12:22 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Nathan Dorfman Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: european internet access? Message-ID: <19990616101222.A12266@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990615222121.A46042@rtfm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <19990615222121.A46042@rtfm.net>; from Nathan Dorfman on Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 10:21:21PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Nathan Dorfman (nathan@rtfm.net) [990616 08:01]: > Is regular dial-up PPP used in Italy as well? If so, where can I find some > kind of adapter to plug the phone line into my modem (RJ11)? If not, how > else can I get online, and what kind of hardware do I need to buy? And of > course, contact info for service providers around there would help as well. As far as I have been able to understand from Italian people I met online it shouldn't be that different from the Dutch stuff, so I will inform you about that. We use 220/230 V for power and normally have very different cables than those that are common in the US. The pins on the plug are round, like a small cylinder. Almost all phone connectors use standard RJ11's for connecting, however the connector after that differs from country to country. Hope this helps at least to better orientate yerself, -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The *BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD & (g)VIM : Accept no limitations... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 12:13:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E8A152B5 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:13:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA51622; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA00934; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:13:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199906161913.NAA00934@harmony.village.org> To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Subject: Re: New Attack via sendmail? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "16 Jun 1999 09:52:54 +0200." References: <199906151811.MAA93541@harmony.village.org> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:13:18 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: : Warner Losh writes: : > True. It looked from the logs like it was happening often, so looking : > at the server in a most-mortum fassion may also be a benefit. : ------------------- : Don't type with food in your mouth! :) "Say it, don't spray it" :-) Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 13:45: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C75C14E7D for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.5]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA50BC; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:43:44 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02756; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:34:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:34:56 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Terry Lambert Cc: David Schwartz , dkelly@hiwaay.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux Message-ID: <19990616223456.M372@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <000001beb6e5$21f4f420$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> <199906152133.OAA24192@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <199906152133.OAA24192@usr01.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 09:33:01PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Terry Lambert (tlambert@primenet.com) [990616 01:59]: > > An XFS LKM will only work with a *Linux* kernel. We are talking about an > > LKM, not some generic piece of source code. > > So long as they don't distribute it linked with the Linux kernel, > then it's not a problem. Replace XFS with softupdates, and we have almost the same situation except that the license is reversed (that is imposed on the `work', instead of the kernel). -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The *BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: We are back and will not accept no... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 13:45:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA3814CB0; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:45:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.5]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAB50BC; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:43:46 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02769; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:41:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:41:31 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: John Birrell Cc: Julian Elischer , grog@lemis.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, nrahlstr@winternet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? Message-ID: <19990616224131.N372@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <199906150710.RAA17773@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <199906150710.RAA17773@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 05:10:37PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * John Birrell (jb@cimlogic.com.au) [990615 13:57]: > Julian Elischer wrote: > > I believe that maybe john birrel may have.. > > I have not. > > Chuckle. Nope, me neither. In fact I'm not entirely sure he's a real > person. He might actually be a computer program written by a computer > program written by... If so, that would explain a lot. This sounds too much alike to the jordan thread where we finally found out that jordan is just a very sophisticated AI perl program. Is bruce mayhaps a more advanced AI/Lint? =) -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The *BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: We are back and will not accept no... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 14:10: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nu.binary.net (nu.binary.net [12.13.120.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96ABE150DE for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:10:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nathan@rtfm.net) Received: from matrix.binary.net (nathan@matrix.binary.net [12.13.120.2]) by nu.binary.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA54635; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:10:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nathan@localhost) by matrix.binary.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA22458; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:10:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:09:59 -0400 From: Nathan Dorfman To: Marco Molteni Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: european internet access? Message-ID: <19990616170959.A22021@rtfm.net> References: <19990615222121.A46042@rtfm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Marco Molteni on Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 09:14:44AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 09:14:44AM +0200, Marco Molteni wrote: > New telephones come with a plug into which you can insert a rj11 plug, ie: > > telephone box -- rj11 plug -- cable -- rj11 plug -- telephone plug -- wall socket > ^ > so you insert your plug here------------------------| > > if you'll have an old telephone, I think you can find an adapter in a > normal shop who sells electricity appliances (aargh my english, I hope you > understand ;-) What would the adapter be called? Could I find one in the U.S., to just bring with me? (BTW, your English is fine, I don't have any trouble understanding what you say) > Regarding ISP, maybe your best bet is to find a free 1-month subscription, > which are pretty common in computer magazines (try "PC professionale") > > National-wide ISP (connection speed ugly at night) are TIN > (www.tin.it), Tiscali (maybe www.tiscalinet.it or similar), Infostrada > (www.infostrada.it) > > Or, you can find a local to Santa Marinella ISP, by looking in the italian Yellow > Pages ("Pagine Gialle", www.paginegialle.it) under "internet". Local phone calls aren't untimed, as in the U.S., are they? How much would I end up paying per minute/hour/whatever? > Enjoy your stay in our sunny Italy I will :) it isn't the first time I've been to S.M. In 1989, my family immigrated from the USSR to the US by way of Italy, and we stayed in a town not too far from S.M. called Ladispoli (I was only 6, though). Last year I spend a week in S.M. with my uncle as well. This year it'll be two months :) Thanks for the help > Marco > --- > If we want to avoid zombies, we have to wait for our children. > -- W. R. Stevens -- Nathan Dorfman The statements and opinions in my Unix Admin @ Frontline Communications public posts are mine, not FCC's. "The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching train." --/usr/games/fortune To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 15:47:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3C7814D7C; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:46:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA38007; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:00:40 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:00:39 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: John Birrell , Julian Elischer , grog@lemis.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, nrahlstr@winternet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? Message-ID: <19990616220038.A37789@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199906150710.RAA17773@cimlogic.com.au> <19990616224131.N372@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990616224131.N372@daemon.ninth-circle.org>; from Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai on Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 10:41:31PM +0200 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 10:41:31PM +0200, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > This sounds too much alike to the jordan thread where we finally > found out that jordan is just a very sophisticated AI perl program. > > Is bruce mayhaps a more advanced AI/Lint? =) With all the whitespace and formatting dependencies, bde would have to be written in Python. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 16: 7:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83CF614D8E; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:07:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA01573; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:37:48 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA08869; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:37:53 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:37:53 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nik Clayton Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , John Birrell , Julian Elischer , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, nrahlstr@winternet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? Message-ID: <19990617083752.K7933@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199906150710.RAA17773@cimlogic.com.au> <19990616224131.N372@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <19990616220038.A37789@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990616220038.A37789@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 10:00:39PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 16 June 1999 at 22:00:39 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 10:41:31PM +0200, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> This sounds too much alike to the jordan thread where we finally >> found out that jordan is just a very sophisticated AI perl program. >> >> Is bruce mayhaps a more advanced AI/Lint? =) > > With all the whitespace and formatting dependencies, bde would have to > be written in Python. And I had thought he was written in LISP. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 16:52:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0164F14D59 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:52:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id QAA08665; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:51:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:51:22 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Nik Clayton Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? Message-ID: <19990616165122.C37775@001101.zer0.org> References: <199906150710.RAA17773@cimlogic.com.au> <19990616224131.N372@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <19990616220038.A37789@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990616220038.A37789@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 10:00:39PM +0100 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 10:00:39PM +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 10:41:31PM +0200, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > This sounds too much alike to the jordan thread where we finally > > found out that jordan is just a very sophisticated AI perl program. > > > > Is bruce mayhaps a more advanced AI/Lint? =) > > With all the whitespace and formatting dependencies, bde would have to > be written in Python. #!/usr/local/bin/python # progcheck.py # checks a program for correctness of code, using the bde algorithms. # # $Id$ # get standard os and system functions import os,sys import string # ensure program correctness sys.path.append("/rmt/au/bde/") import bde def doc(progname): print ("%s checks a program for correctness, using the" % progname) print ("intelligent 'bde' algorithms.") print ("Usage: %s " % progname) def exitfunc(retval): sys.exit(retval) def main(argv, stdout, environ): progname = argv[0] if len(argv) != 2: doc(progname) exitfunc(-1) prog_to_check = argv[1] problems = [] # choose desired level of checking. currently only "bofh" is implemented. level = "bofh" # use bde problems = bde(prog_to_check,level) for problem in problems: print ("bde didn't like: %s" % problem) if __name__ == "__main__": main(sys.argv, sys.stdout, os.environ) # eof Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter I got a Pentium II for my girlfriend. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com Good trade, eh? http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 16:59: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D6111.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.157.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF79A14D09 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:58:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA01837; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:58:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:58:54 +0000 (GMT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Nik Clayton , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? In-Reply-To: <19990616165122.C37775@001101.zer0.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Gregory Sutter wrote: | sys.path.append("/rmt/au/bde/") | import bde ^^^ Now I'd like to see you post the source for this module Cliff Crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ -><- i l i k e o a t m e a l )O( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 17:11:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D6111.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.157.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D9614A2F for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:11:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA01866; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:10:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:10:52 +0000 (GMT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Nik Clayton , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? In-Reply-To: <19990616165122.C37775@001101.zer0.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey, I just noticed a bug: | problems = bde(prog_to_check,level) Since you used 'import bde' instead of 'from bde import *', this line should be 'problems = bde.bde(prog_to_check,level)'; otherwise you get a NameError. Cliff Crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ -><- i l i k e o a t m e a l )O( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 19: 1:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5226B14C2B for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:01:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-15-243.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.15.243]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA08202 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:01:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA33702 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:32:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199906170132.UAA33702@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-reply-to: Message from Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai of "Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:34:56 +0200." <19990616223456.M372@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:32:07 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: > * Terry Lambert (tlambert@primenet.com) [990616 01:59]: > > > An XFS LKM will only work with a *Linux* kernel. We are talking about an > > > LKM, not some generic piece of source code. > > > > So long as they don't distribute it linked with the Linux kernel, > > then it's not a problem. > > Replace XFS with softupdates, and we have almost the same situation except > that the license is reversed (that is imposed on the `work', instead of the > kernel). You can't say that. Yet. SGI has not published the terms of their license. Something nobody has said yet, is with the release of XFS, The Computing World That Gets Real Work Done stands a rare historical chance to unify. Then again, wouldn't it simply be *awful* if Irix, FreeBSD, Linux, Solaris, and MacOS X, all used the same filesystem? -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 19:10:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9664150F9 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:10:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id WAA29851; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:11:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199906170211.WAA29851@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: sar In-Reply-To: from Dag-Erling Smorgrav at "Jun 15, 99 09:09:37 am" To: des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Cc: pechter@shell.monmouth.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote, > Bill/Carolyn Pechter writes: > > | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | > > | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | > > Bill Gates *is* a villain in a James Bond movie. Haven't you seen > _Tomorrow Never Dies_? Who do you think Elliot Carver is modeled on? Rupert Murdoch. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 19:16:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C40150F1 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:16:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12480; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:18:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: David Kelly Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:32:07 CDT." <199906170132.UAA33702@nospam.hiwaay.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:18:26 -0700 Message-ID: <12476.929585906@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Something nobody has said yet, is with the release of XFS, The > Computing World That Gets Real Work Done stands a rare historical > chance to unify. Then again, wouldn't it simply be *awful* if Irix, > FreeBSD, Linux, Solaris, and MacOS X, all used the same filesystem? I think what nobody is said yet is that XFS is going to be such a bitch to port, infested with IRIX-isms as it's so likely to be, that it also stands every chance of being the next Mozilla project. Wouldn't it be *awful* if all this noise and heat were generated over something that subsequently turned out to be a big dud? :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 16 19:55:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805C814C09 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:55:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA12688; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:54:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:54:19 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Cc: Nik Clayton , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? Message-ID: <19990616195419.F37775@001101.zer0.org> References: <19990616165122.C37775@001101.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality on Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 11:58:54PM +0000 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 11:58:54PM +0000, a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Gregory Sutter wrote: > > | sys.path.append("/rmt/au/bde/") > | import bde > ^^^ > Now I'd like to see you post the source for this module That has been left as an exercise to the reader. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 2:49:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298C51515E for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 02:49:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA12955; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:49:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: cjclark@home.com Cc: pechter@shell.monmouth.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sar References: <199906170211.WAA29851@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 Jun 1999 11:49:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Crist J. Clark"'s message of "Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:11:11 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Crist J. Clark" writes: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote, > > Bill Gates *is* a villain in a James Bond movie. Haven't you seen > > _Tomorrow Never Dies_? Who do you think Elliot Carver is modeled on? > Rupert Murdoch. I disagree. Some of his quotes are very obvious "kicks below the belt" to Bill Gates. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 8: 7:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from geocities.com (mail8.geocities.com [209.1.224.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A03614F26 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:07:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sylvarnes@geocities.com) Received: from hsf2510 ([158.37.10.109]) by geocities.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA01516 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990617170750.007cc3d0@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: sylvarnes@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:07:50 +0200 To: chat@freebsd.org From: "Stein B. Sylvarnes" Subject: Hitchikers guide on norwegian radio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I heard on the radio today that The hitchikers guide to the galaxy will be sent on the radio. Episodes will be sent on P2 monday evenings and smaller bits (episodes split up) on mammarazzi on P3 12.30 (not sure about the time, missed what days that would be). They pålayed a smple from when they find out that 42 is the key to everything (or something). That was cool! Awesome!! (And I like parantheses) Stein B. Sylvarnes www.{Free, Net, Open}BSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 8:18: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A5514F26 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:18:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA02550; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:19:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199906171519.LAA02550@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: sar In-Reply-To: from Dag-Erling Smorgrav at "Jun 17, 99 11:49:29 am" To: des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Cc: cjclark@home.com, pechter@shell.monmouth.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote, > "Crist J. Clark" writes: > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote, > > > Bill Gates *is* a villain in a James Bond movie. Haven't you seen > > > _Tomorrow Never Dies_? Who do you think Elliot Carver is modeled on? > > Rupert Murdoch. > > I disagree. Some of his quotes are very obvious "kicks below the belt" > to Bill Gates. Roger Ebert: "[Bond's] enemy in ``Tomorrow Never Dies'' wants to start a war in order to create headlines for the launch of his latest news channel. Just imagine what Rupert Murdoch and Ted Turner would like to do to each other and imagine either one of them doing it to the Chinese, and you'll get the idea." Ruthe Stein (San Francisco Chronicle): "Credit screenwriter Bruce Feirstein with coming up with a worthy evil adversary: Elliot Carver (Jonathan Pryce), a media mogul who is a combination of Rupert Murdoch and William Randolph Hearst." Wade Major (Box Office Magizine): "Like assorted previous Bond villains, most notably "Moonraker's" Drax, Jonathan Pryce's Elliot Carver is a madman of the wealthy industrialist variety, a Rupert Murdoch-like newspaper and satellite maven who fancies "making" the news rather than simply reporting it." John Hatl (Film.com): "Carver models himself on William Randolph Hearst, he quotes from Citizen Kane ("You provide the pictures, I'll provide the war") and is clearly meant to suggest Rupert Murdoch in a sabre-rattling mode." Jim Byerley (HBO Film Reviews): "The natty villain of today is closer to Rupert Murdoch than Oddjob." Although there very well could have been a rip or two aimed at Gates, I'd have to say that Murdoch is probably the best match overall when it comes to megalomaniacal corporate barons. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 10:24:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B786114D5B for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:24:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id TAA19347; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:25:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id TAA51512; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:33:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990617193357.54678@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:33:57 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: David Kelly , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux References: <199906170132.UAA33702@nospam.hiwaay.net> <12476.929585906@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <12476.929585906@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 07:18:26PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > I think what nobody is said yet is that XFS is going to be such a > bitch to port, infested with IRIX-isms as it's so likely to be, that > it also stands every chance of being the next Mozilla project. Right -- much of the kernel FS deficiencies of IRIX were reimplemented directly in XFS. Can you say: bloated hack ? Softupdates are your friend. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 13:11: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (unknown [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D8815540 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:10:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.36]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990617201306.JXOQ364447.mta2-rme@wocker>; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:13:06 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:10:30 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The complete FreeBSD Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: Dmitry References: <19990617102112.SUIB404633.mta1-rme@wocker> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990617201306.JXOQ364447.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 17 Jun 99, at 9:28, Matt Behrens wrote: > [Moving this thread to -chat.] > > On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Dan Langille wrote: > > : On 17 Jun 99, at 8:37, Dmitry wrote: > > : > May be someone who has this book on CD put it on some webserver for > all : > FreeBSD community. I think that it'll help to train more > professional : > users and admins. I think it's rather good to allow this > book for free , : > because FreeBSD is free OS > > : Ummm, no. Books are quite different to software. How many free Linux : > books do you know of? > > Actually, there has recently been a few by O'Reilly (not Linux > books specifically) that are being released as "open source books". > DocBook: The Definitive Guide, I think, is one. Personally, I > think the idea of everyone working and improving on a book's source > doesn't make as much sense as software. However, it is a neat way > to go. The difference I referred to was cost not the writing method. It's very expensive to write a book. I think it would be nearly impossible to create free books. -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 13:13: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFD5115540 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:12:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27247; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd027210; Thu Jun 17 13:12:45 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA04057; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:12:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199906172012.NAA04057@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: New Attack via sendmail? To: des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:12:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: imp@harmony.village.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" at Jun 16, 99 09:52:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > [from -security] > > Warner Losh writes: > > True. It looked from the logs like it was happening often, so looking > > at the server in a most-mortum fassion may also be a benefit. > ------------------- > Don't type with food in your mouth! :) There is a (semi) well known sendmail bug having to do with malformed messages, usually from Microsoft Outlook clients. It results in the message being repeatedly sent to the recipient list, and never deleted from the queue. Is this what they were talking about? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 13:24:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A119A15594 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:24:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:24:48 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: Cc: Subject: RE: The complete FreeBSD Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:24:48 -0700 Message-ID: <000401beb8ff$72254910$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <19990617201306.JXOQ364447.mta2-rme@wocker> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The difference I referred to was cost not the writing method. It's very > expensive to write a book. I think it would be nearly impossible to > create free books. Oh, I disagree. You could easily cover the costs with advertising. When was the last time you paid for a Yellow Pages? DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 13:42:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (unknown [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B992D15626 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:42:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.36]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990617204449.KFNA364447.mta2-rme@wocker> for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:44:49 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:42:12 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: The complete FreeBSD Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz In-reply-to: <000401beb8ff$72254910$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> References: <19990617201306.JXOQ364447.mta2-rme@wocker> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990617204449.KFNA364447.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 17 Jun 99, at 13:24, David Schwartz wrote: > > > The difference I referred to was cost not the writing method. It's very > > expensive to write a book. I think it would be nearly impossible to > > create free books. > > Oh, I disagree. You could easily cover the costs with advertising. When > was > the last time you paid for a Yellow Pages? Counter examples are also possible. -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 14:14: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (unknown [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50B3A14C14 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:13:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.36]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990617211628.KPSJ364447.mta2-rme@wocker>; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:16:28 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Jamie Norwood Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:13:54 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Will transcripts of FreeBSDCon '99 be available? Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19990617135025.A29727@ethereal.net> References: <14185.22878.790988.149120@hip186.ch.intel.com>; from John Reynolds~ on Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 01:23:58PM -0700 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990617211628.KPSJ364447.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to chat] FWIW, John didn't say it was impossible to attend *because* of cost. So what are you agreeing with? As a comparison, perhaps you can tell the group the costs of comparable conventions. I actually have nothing to compare it to. On 17 Jun 99, at 13:50, Jamie Norwood wrote: > On this note, I have to agree. Even the pre-reg fees are just WAY out of > my price range. $400 to come talk about a free operating system? I don't > think so. > > Jamie > On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 01:23:58PM -0700, John Reynolds~ wrote: > > > > hello all, > > > > I just recently received my 3.2-R discs from Walnut creek and inside saw > > the advertisement to sign up for FreeBSDCon '99. > > > > While it would be totally cool to go, it will unfortunately be > > impossible. The question is will all the keynote speeches and the other > > things that can be captured be made available on some website after the > > conference? -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 14:20: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from matrix.42.org (matrix.42.org [194.246.250.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B084114C4E for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:19:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sec@42.org) Received: (from sec@localhost) by matrix.42.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA20590 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (sender ); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:19:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:19:53 +0200 From: Stefan `Sec` Zehl To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bde? Message-ID: <19990617231953.A20576@matrix.42.org> References: <19990616165122.C37775@001101.zer0.org> <19990616195419.F37775@001101.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <19990616195419.F37775@001101.zer0.org>; from Gregory Sutter on Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 07:54:19PM -0700 I-love-doing-this: really Accept-Languages: de, en X-URL: http://sec.42.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 07:54:19PM -0700, Gregory Sutter wrote: > On Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 11:58:54PM +0000, a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Gregory Sutter wrote: > > | import bde > > ^^^ > > Now I'd like to see you post the source for this module > > That has been left as an exercise to the reader. I found a wonderfull implementation of it, but unfortunately the room in this posting is too small to write it down :-) SCNR, Sec -- /* I hate C so much... */ --- jwz, in driver/xscreensaver.c To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 14:31:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D279C14E4C for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:31:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA06474; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:01:02 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id HAA54316; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:01:10 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:01:08 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Phil Regnauld Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , David Kelly , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI Donated Journalised FS Source to Linux Message-ID: <19990618070108.X9893@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199906170132.UAA33702@nospam.hiwaay.net> <12476.929585906@zippy.cdrom.com> <19990617193357.54678@ns.int.ftf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990617193357.54678@ns.int.ftf.net>; from Phil Regnauld on Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 07:33:57PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 17 June 1999 at 19:33:57 +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > >> I think what nobody is said yet is that XFS is going to be such a >> bitch to port, infested with IRIX-isms as it's so likely to be, that >> it also stands every chance of being the next Mozilla project. > > Right -- much of the kernel FS deficiencies of IRIX were reimplemented > directly in XFS. Have you looked at the code? > Can you say: bloated hack ? Can you say "wait and see"? > Softupdates are your friend. Doubtless, but xfs offers other goodies as well. I will certainly take a long, hard look at it when I can get my sticky little fingers on it. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 15:30:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D4314DB2 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:30:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id AAA24013 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:30:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 9C3A087AE; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:15:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:15:10 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sar Message-ID: <19990618001510.A79204@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199906171519.LAA02550@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199906171519.LAA02550@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>; from Crist J. Clark on Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 11:19:25AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5423 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Crist J. Clark: > Although there very well could have been a rip or two aimed at Gates, > I'd have to say that Murdoch is probably the best match overall when > it comes to megalomaniacal corporate barons. Yeah but don't forget when the villain asks one of his underlings about their new program very full of bugs that they're selling... :-) Gates was the obvious suspect here. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #71: Sun May 9 20:16:32 CEST 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 16:12:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D81614BD0 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:11:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA06920; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:41:50 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA54853; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:41:57 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:41:57 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: David Schwartz Cc: junkmale@xtra.co.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The complete FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990618084157.H9893@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990617201306.JXOQ364447.mta2-rme@wocker> <000401beb8ff$72254910$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <000401beb8ff$72254910$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to>; from David Schwartz on Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 01:24:48PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 17 June 1999 at 13:24:48 -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > >> The difference I referred to was cost not the writing method. It's very >> expensive to write a book. I think it would be nearly impossible to >> create free books. > > Oh, I disagree. You could easily cover the costs with advertising. When was > the last time you paid for a Yellow Pages? A couple of years ago. In Germany, you have to pay for all except the local Yellow Pages. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 16:15:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EEA14CCD for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:15:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:15:44 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Greg Lehey" Cc: Subject: RE: The complete FreeBSD Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:15:44 -0700 Message-ID: <000001beb917$534304c0$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <19990618084157.H9893@freebie.lemis.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Oh, I disagree. You could easily cover the costs with > advertising. When was > > the last time you paid for a Yellow Pages? > > A couple of years ago. In Germany, you have to pay for all except the > local Yellow Pages. It was a rhetorical question. ;) DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 17 18:26:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from arutam.inch.com (ns.inch.com [207.240.140.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C9A14BD0 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:26:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freyes@inch.com) Received: from your-name (TC2-dial-118-215.oldslip.inch.com [207.240.215.118]) by arutam.inch.com (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA17116 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906180126.VAA17116@arutam.inch.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:27:55 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Anyone else using Netmax? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anybody on the list using Netmax? I have one box running it and want to find others to share experience and possibly start a mailing list. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 18 2:19:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 133FB1500D for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:19:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:22:44 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179686@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Stefan `Sec` Zehl' , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: bde? Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:17:07 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Stefan `Sec` Zehl [SMTP:sec@42.org] > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 11:20 PM > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: bde? > > > I found a wonderfull implementation of it, but unfortunately the room > in > this posting is too small to write it down :-) [ML] But at least the walls are nicely padded, eh? /Marino > SCNR, > Sec > -- > /* I hate C so much... */ --- jwz, in driver/xscreensaver.c > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 18 9:31:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co [168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F0514F45 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:31:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem18.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.48]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11358 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:32:34 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <3769AE7F.423DB243@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:27:11 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es,en-US,it MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will transcripts of FreeBSDCon '99 be available? References: <14185.22878.790988.149120@hip186.ch.intel.com>; from John Reynolds~ on Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 01:23:58PM -0700 <19990617211628.KPSJ364447.mta2-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There's nothing to compare with...everyone that is *someone* in the FreeBSD world will be there. Pedro "Mr. Nobody" Giffuni :( Dan Langille escribió: > > [moved to chat] > > FWIW, John didn't say it was impossible to attend *because* of cost. So > what are you agreeing with? > > As a comparison, perhaps you can tell the group the costs of comparable > conventions. I actually have nothing to compare it to. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 18 12: 0: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92AB3151E1 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA16572; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:50:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Suggestion where to buy computer In-Reply-To: <199906160453.AAA07807@arutam.inch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In the San Francisco Bay Area, I've used www.centralcomputer.com. If the components you buy are over $1000, they build it for you, and you pick it up. They have three stores in the area and prices on-line. I think these prices are not the lowest possible, but they're pretty good. I got mine built without an os, a mouse, a keyboard; and this is okay with them. Annelise On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Francisco Reyes wrote: > In the coming months I plan to get a second computer from home. > > Any recommendations regarding vendors? > I have bought a few computers in the past from www.atipa.com, but they > have now become Atipa Linux > Solutions and even dropped the FreeBSD logo from their site. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 18 13:48: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp13.bellglobal.com (smtp13.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED2315238 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:47:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vanderh@ecf.toronto.edu) Received: from localhost.nowhere (ppp18370.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.130.50]) by smtp13.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27612; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.nowhere (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA06003; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:48:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:48:24 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Brian Fundakowski Feldman , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <19990618164823.A5943@mad> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Bill Fumerola on Fri, Jun 18, 1999 at 02:24:33PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [-committers -=> -chat] On Fri, Jun 18, 1999 at 02:24:33PM -0400, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jun 1999, Brian Fundakowski Feldman wrote: > > > I suppose I should give some background info as well: > > - lived entire life in Maryland, USA > > - 16 years old, entering Junior year in high school > > Congratulations, Brian. You have unseated me (by a considerable amount) as > 'youngest committer'. I previously ousted (I believe) Tim Vanderhoek from > this position. Hm. If I'm starting to feel old, I wonder what some of the other people around here are starting to feel. :-) FWIW, I was 16 when I installed FreeBSD (2.1-R) for the first time. :) That was thanks to folks on io.org, long since deceased. May your soul rest in peace, io.org. -- This is my .signature which gets appended to the end of my messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 18 14:26:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 627D914EF8; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:26:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost (billf@localhost) by jade.chc-chimes.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA21644; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:29:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:29:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Brian Fundakowski Feldman , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Introduction In-Reply-To: <80184.929740738@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 18 Jun 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > May you be the envy of teen hackers everywhere. > > I can just see the Tiger Beat cover now: "Win a dream date with Brian!" > > Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;) Comedy Central seems to have put 'Stripes' in their weekly lineup of movies. The ending involved John Candy on the cover of 'Tiger Beat', which is truely funny. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 18 16:52:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCBE14D3E for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:52:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id QAA44666; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:50:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:50:59 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Cc: Nik Clayton , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bde? Message-ID: <19990618165059.S37775@001101.zer0.org> References: <19990616165122.C37775@001101.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality on Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 12:10:52AM +0000 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 12:10:52AM +0000, a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality wrote: > Hey, I just noticed a bug: > > | problems = bde(prog_to_check,level) > > Since you used 'import bde' instead of 'from bde import *', this > line should be 'problems = bde.bde(prog_to_check,level)'; otherwise > you get a NameError. I did it so people wouldn't accidentally invoke bde. I think he'd get mighty pissed off (even IAs (intelligent algorithms) get mad) if people began calling him all the time. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "Software is like sex; it's better mailto:gsutter@pobox.com when it's free." -- Linus Torvalds http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 19 9:32:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C1F714DC4 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:32:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from mips.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id SAA25358 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 18:32:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: by mips.rhein-neckar.de id m10vLs6-000WyXC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:13:26 +0200 (CEST) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: Please welcome Doug Rabson to the FreeBSD core team! Date: 19 Jun 1999 16:13:23 +0200 Message-ID: <7kg8i3$dnn$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> References: <80673.929747241@zippy.cdrom.com> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > we are quite pleased to welcome Doug Rabson to FreeBSD core! -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de LinuxTag '99 - 26./27. Juni, Uni Kaiserslautern - http://www.linuxtag.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 19 15:18:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.svr.pol.co.uk (mail5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE7F14DA2 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 15:18:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from s.mitchell@computer.org) Received: from modem-112.neodymium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.29.240] helo=valis.goatsucker.org) by mail5.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10vTRk-0001QO-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 23:18:45 +0100 Received: (from scott@localhost) by valis.goatsucker.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA00387; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 15:39:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from scott) Message-ID: <19990619153953.17562@goatsucker.org> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 15:39:53 +0100 From: Scott Mitchell To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone in Helsinki? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, Anyone *BSD-ers out there from Helsinki? I'll be in town from June 26 through July 1 and wouldn't mind meeting up with someone who knows where the good bars are :-) , or indeed the tourist sights for when the conference social program gets too dull... Cheers, Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID | "Eagles may soar, but weasels London, England | 0x54B171B9 | don't get sucked into jet engines" s.mitchell@computer.org | 0xAA775B8B | -- Anon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 19 15:34:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0563151DA for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 15:34:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from localhost (jcw@localhost) by s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA03787 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:38:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: s8-37-26.student.washington.edu: jcw owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:38:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jcw@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Netscape still aout? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does anyone know the people at Netscape who keep putting out navigator for FreeBSD? If you do, could you ask them to start building ELF binaries? Thank You, | "Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither Jason Wells | freedom nor security." - Benjamin Franklin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 19 15:54:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A3FB14CF0 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 15:54:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-145.s18.as2.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.145]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id SAA10064; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 18:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906192254.SAA10064@smtp4.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990619223526.3B091D1@io.checker.org> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 18:54:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Jake Burkholder , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TYA mail #2 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 19-Jun-99 Jake Burkholder wrote: > Jake > -- > FreeBSD: The ultimate Linux kernel patch. You know, that signature might prove hazardous to your health around here, despite its good intentions. :) --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 19 16:16:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from io.checker.org (h24-66-174-118.xx.wave.shaw.ca [24.66.174.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D504814DE1 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jake@checker.org) Received: from io.checker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by io.checker.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79FC4D1 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:16:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TYA mail #2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Jun 1999 18:54:28 EDT." <199906192254.SAA10064@smtp4.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:16:03 -0700 From: Jake Burkholder Message-Id: <19990619231603.79FC4D1@io.checker.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > On 19-Jun-99 Jake Burkholder wrote: > > Jake > > -- > > FreeBSD: The ultimate Linux kernel patch. > > You know, that signature might prove hazardous to your health around here, > despite its good intentions. :) > Heh, you're probably right :) Its an IRC thing I guess. The other day I didn't realize I had FreeBSD: Keeping it up longer than Viagra. in there until after I'd e-mailed my grandmother... ( note the distinct lack --> ) -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 19 16:51:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4CEA1532C for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:51:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-14-227.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.14.227]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA13329 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 18:51:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA50254 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 18:38:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199906192338.SAA50254@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: another song From: David Kelly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 18:38:09 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Must admit I don't read every message so I don't know if this has come thru here before. Somebody else forwarded it to me. Thought it appropriate here: I want my FTP Sung to the tune of "Money for Nothing" by Dire Straits. I want my I want my I want my FTP Now look at them yo-yo's that's the way you do it You get the files from the FTP That ain't programming, that's the way you do it Programs for nothing and the code is free Now that ain't programming, that's the way you do it Let me tell you those guys aren't pissed Maybe break a nail on your little finger, Maybe get some numbness in your wrist We've got to install operating systems Custom software delivery We've got to move these manual pages RTFM those RFCs See the little user with his gifs and the jpegs Yeah buddy he's got root That little user got his own workstation That little user got his own disk to boot We've got to install operating systems Custom software delivery We've got to move these manual pages RTFM those RFCs I should've learned to run xarchie I should've learned to play them games Look at that mama, her gif is sticking in the monitor Man we could have some fun And he's up there, what's that? Orgasm noises? Playing sound files like a grade-school geek That ain't programming that's the way you do it Get your programs for nothing get your code for free We've got to install operating systems Custom software delivery We've got to move these manual pages RTFM those RFCs Now that ain't programming, that's the way you do it You get your programs from the FTP That ain't programming that's the way you do it Programs for nothing and your code for free Programs for nothing and code for free -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 19 17:19:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C2914BD7 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 17:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost (billf@localhost) by jade.chc-chimes.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24951 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:23:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:23:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: (The Netherlands} Oracle Consultants, JobOpportunities for Oracle Consultants !!!! (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just thought you folks would find this funny. The person at the other end of the e-mail was spamming about 5 messages on -jobs. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 02:24:42 +0200 From: recruiter To: Bill Fumerola Subject: Re: (The Netherlands} Oracle Consultants, JobOpportunities for Oracle Consultants !!!! Thank you for your reply ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Fumerola To: Ace-iT Staffing Services Sent: Sunday, June 20, 1999 2:04 AM Subject: Re: (The Netherlands} Oracle Consultants, JobOpportunities for Oracle Consultants !!!! > > > Stop spamming, you loser. > > On 19 Jun 1999, Ace-iT Staffing Services wrote: > > > Visit www.ace-it.nl and sign in for several high qualified positions in the Netherlands !!!!!!! > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-jobs" in the body of the message > > > > - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - > - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message