From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 3:31:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 256AD14C12 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 03:31:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA26565; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:31:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA80889; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:31:28 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:31:28 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Bill Fumerola Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: doc/en/handbook/hw chapter.sgml doc/en/handbook/advanced-networking chapter.sgml doc/en/handbook/bibliography chapter.sgml doc/en/handbook/cutting-edge chapter.sgml doc/en/handbook/eresources chapter.sgml doc/en/handbook/l10n chapter.sgml ... Message-ID: <19990621123128.U63035@bitbox.follo.net> References: <199906210237.VAA29283@free.pcs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Bill Fumerola on Sun, Jun 20, 1999 at 11:07:58PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jun 20, 1999 at 11:07:58PM -0400, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jun 1999, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > What? :g/freebsd/s//FreeBSD/ didn't do it? > > Not when we have items like > > For Naked jkh pictures go > seehttp://foo.bar.com/freebsd/nekked_jordan.html That URL is faulty - foo.bar.com doesn't exist. May I suggest that you remove it from whereever you found it, so more people do not get disappointed? Eivind, who was eagerly looking forward to adding jkh to his naked #freebsd pictures collection. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 6:55: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8727414C8B; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 06:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost (billf@localhost) by jade.chc-chimes.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA22931; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:58:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:58:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Eivind Eklund Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: doc/en/handbook/hw chapter.sgml doc/en/handbook/advanced-networking chapter.sgml doc/en/handbook/bibliography chapter.sgml doc/en/handbook/cutting-edge chapter.sgml doc/en/handbook/eresources chapter.sgml doc/en/handbook/l10n chapter.sgml ... In-Reply-To: <19990621123128.U63035@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > For Naked jkh pictures go > > seehttp://foo.bar.com/freebsd/nekked_jordan.html > > That URL is faulty - foo.bar.com doesn't exist. May I suggest that > you remove it from whereever you found it, so more people do not get > disappointed? Committed to www/en/internal/nekked_committers.sgml, rev 1.4, thanks! > Eivind, who was eagerly looking forward to adding jkh to his naked > #freebsd pictures collection. Knowing the guy:gal ratio in that channel, I hope you're joking. :> - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 7:53:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE2914F37; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:53:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost (billf@localhost) by jade.chc-chimes.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA14714; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:57:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:57:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/lang/logo Makefile ports/lang/logo/files md5 ports/lang/logo/patches patch-ac patch-ab ports/lang/logo/pkg PLIST In-Reply-To: <199906211356.GAA30034@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > lang/logo Makefile Wow. I remember learning logo on the Apple back in early elementary. Wow. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 7:56:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ADC014F37 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:56:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w5UE-00035E-00; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:55:50 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Bill Fumerola Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/lang/logo Makefile ports/lang/logo/files md5 ports/lang/logo/patches patch-ac patch-ab ports/lang/logo/pkg PLIST In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:57:04 -0400." Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:55:50 +0200 Message-ID: <11855.929976950@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:57:04 -0400, Bill Fumerola wrote: > Wow. I remember learning logo on the Apple back in early elementary. Wow. Not so long ago, from the sound of things. ;-) Later, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 10:22:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40179150B9 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:22:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA56459; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:22:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: OFUG meeting From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 21 Jun 1999 19:22:03 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 7 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The Oslo FreeBSD User Group will hold its second meeting ever at my place tomorrow (tuesday) night at 7. Drop me a note if you plan to come. Food will be served; bring your own drinks. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 10:30:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93CB8150FD for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:30:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13672; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990621112810.0467b2b0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:30:13 -0600 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: OFUG meeting In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Interesting acronym. What is the group's slogan -- "OFUG it all?" (Says the punster, grinning, ducking, and running.) --Brett At 07:22 PM 6/21/99 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >The Oslo FreeBSD User Group will hold its second meeting ever at my >place tomorrow (tuesday) night at 7. Drop me a note if you plan to >come. Food will be served; bring your own drinks. > >DES >-- >Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 10:37:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D731511B for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:37:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA56848; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:37:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Brett Glass Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OFUG meeting References: <4.2.0.56.19990621112810.0467b2b0@localhost> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 21 Jun 1999 19:37:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: Brett Glass's message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:30:13 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > Interesting acronym. What is the group's slogan -- "OFUG it > all?" (Says the punster, grinning, ducking, and running.) From our web pages: ``OFUG is pronounced "Oh, fuck!", because that is what DES says all too often a short time after committing a patch to FreeBSD, and what Eivind usually says when he gets mail from the Bruce Filter.'' (Norwegians, of course, will pronounce it "åw, føkk") DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 11:40:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA3C415234 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:40:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-13.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.13] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA17325; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:40:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <376E8710.44222238@airnet.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:40:16 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christian Weisgerber Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please welcome Doug Rabson to the FreeBSD core team! References: <80673.929747241@zippy.cdrom.com> <7kg8i3$dnn$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > we are quite pleased to welcome Doug Rabson to FreeBSD core! HI DOUG! -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 12: 5:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D6144.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.157.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA09815269; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:05:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01336; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:05:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:05:17 +0000 (GMT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Sheldon Hearn , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/lang/logo Makefile ports/lang/logo/files md5 ports/lang/logo/patches patch-ac patch-ab ports/lang/logo/pkg PLIST In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: | > lang/logo Makefile | | Wow. I remember learning logo on the Apple back in early elementary. Wow. *wistfully* I wrote my first program in logo.. :) Cliff Crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ -><- i l i k e o a t m e a l )O( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 15:13: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ACB114F39 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:12:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA79348 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:05:25 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:05:22 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Con Message-ID: <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi folks, Is it too early to start planning meetings and gatherings around the FreeBSD Con ()? I'm planning on being in the area from the 16th until the 24th of October. Any FreeBSD users in the area fancy meeting up for dinner, sight-seeing, and so on? Any recommendations for things to do over there, or places to avoid? N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 17:32:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29E414EB3 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:32:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05272; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:32:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd005247; Mon Jun 21 17:32:48 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA18525; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:32:46 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199906220032.RAA18525@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 32bitsOnline comparison of BSD v. GPL To: garbanzo@hooked.net (Alex Zepeda) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:32:46 +0000 (GMT) Cc: des@flood.ping.uio.no, brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Alex Zepeda" at Jun 21, 99 04:50:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Uh, stop trying to figure out what I'm thinking of, cause what I'm > thinking of is RFC2396: > Uniform Resource Identifiers (URI): Generic Syntax > [...] > Abstract > > A Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) is a compact string of characters > for identifying an abstract or physical resource. This document > defines the generic syntax of URI, including both absolute and > relative forms, and guidelines for their use; it revises and replaces > the generic definitions in RFC 1738 and RFC 1808. > [...] Read down to section 3.3: | The path component contains data, specific to the authority (or the | scheme if there is no authority component), identifying the resource | within the scope of that scheme and authority. | | path = [ abs_path | opaque_part ] | | path_segments = segment *( "/" segment ) | segment = *pchar *( ";" param ) | param = *pchar | | pchar = unreserved | escaped | | ":" | "@" | "&" | "=" | "+" | "$" | "," | | The path may consist of a sequence of path segments separated by a | single slash "/" character. Within a path segment, the characters | "/", ";", "=", and "?" are reserved. Each path segment may include a | sequence of parameters, indicated by the semicolon ";" character. | The parameters are not significant to the parsing of relative | references. You could argue for a %26 encoding for the Ampersand, but since it's US ASCII, and it's not part of a {Registry|Server}-based Naming Authority syntactic element, it's a pretty useless point of contention (the original "&" encoding is still broken for standards compliant browsers). It sounds more like you are defending a cut an paste from a "view source" window, rather than something cut from the "Location:" display field. 8-). > > BTW, it's spelled 'superseded'. > > Yes massah. Actually, it's spelled "Updates". 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 20:21:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20FFC14C27 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14497; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:21:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Nik Clayton Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:05:22 BST." <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:21:27 -0700 Message-ID: <14493.930021687@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Is it too early to start planning meetings and gatherings around the > FreeBSD Con ()? Never too early! :) > I'm planning on being in the area from the 16th until the 24th of October. > Any FreeBSD users in the area fancy meeting up for dinner, sight-seeing, > and so on? I think that goes without saying. Berkeley is well-known for having a lot of good restaurants. :) > Any recommendations for things to do over there, or places to avoid? Go up to Telegraph Ave at some point, at least, and see all the nifty street people. I'll be having a "drug buyers tour" during the conference where I tell you which street corners to avoid and who to get all the best LSD from. Haha. Just kidding. It's actually a pretty interesting walk when the weather is nice and Telegraph is a lot more fun than it is dangerous if you're simply clued-in enough to go wander it before 3am or so - no different than Times Square in NYC that way, I guess. The campus itself is also a fun walker's tour and I'll probably be taking small groups of people up to wander the Lawrence Berkeley Labs at various points during the week. The area is pretty spectacular for both its views and its various scientific landmarks ("over there's where they split the first particles, and over there is where they put them back together again before anybody found out") and there's even a decent set of stables (Grizzly Peak stables) for those who enjoy equestrian activities; it's been far too long since I myself rode the various trails up there and may rent a horse myself if there's any general interest. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 21: 7:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 622A114E3B for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:07:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19401; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:07:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:07:35 -0600 To: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con In-Reply-To: <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd like to gather some enthusiasts for dinner at what I think is the best Indian restaurant (actually, a family-run chain) in the Bay Area: Pasand (http://www.pasand.com/). Their Berkeley location is at Shattuck and Bancroft. They have excellent vegetarian entrees and appetizers as well as non-veggie entrees -- some hot, some not. Hackers seem to love this place; I used to run into famed mathematician, LISPer, and "Life" inventor Bill Gosper regularly at their Santa Clara restaurant. --Brett Glass At 11:05 PM 6/21/99 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: >Hi folks, > >Is it too early to start planning meetings and gatherings around the >FreeBSD Con ()? > >I'm planning on being in the area from the 16th until the 24th of October. >Any FreeBSD users in the area fancy meeting up for dinner, sight-seeing, >and so on? > >Any recommendations for things to do over there, or places to avoid? > >N >-- > [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, > non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs > the links. > -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 21:17:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7600814DC3 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:17:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA12896; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:47:47 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA79454; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:47:57 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:47:57 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass Cc: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Message-ID: <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 10:07:35PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 21 June 1999 at 22:07:35 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:05 PM 6/21/99 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: >> Hi folks, >> >> Is it too early to start planning meetings and gatherings around the >> FreeBSD Con ()? >> >> I'm planning on being in the area from the 16th until the 24th of October. >> Any FreeBSD users in the area fancy meeting up for dinner, sight-seeing, >> and so on? >> >> Any recommendations for things to do over there, or places to avoid? > > I'd like to gather some enthusiasts for dinner at what I think is > the best Indian restaurant (actually, a family-run chain) in the > Bay Area: Pasand (http://www.pasand.com/). Are they the people who used to be on Stevens Creek in Cupertino near the junction with Lawrence? They were OK, but not spectacular. I drove past there last week, and they don't seem to be there any more. If anybody in that area is looking for a good Indian restaurant, I preferred a Southern Indian place near the junction of Lawrence and Central, near Computer Literacy. I forget the name, but they have a big advertisement visible from Lawrence. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 21:24:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C59714ED4 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:23:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA12917; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:53:36 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA79682; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:53:33 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:53:33 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass Cc: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Message-ID: <19990622135333.U76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 01:47:57PM +0930 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 13:47:57 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Monday, 21 June 1999 at 22:07:35 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >> At 11:05 PM 6/21/99 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> Is it too early to start planning meetings and gatherings around the >>> FreeBSD Con ()? >>> >>> I'm planning on being in the area from the 16th until the 24th of October. >>> Any FreeBSD users in the area fancy meeting up for dinner, sight-seeing, >>> and so on? >>> >>> Any recommendations for things to do over there, or places to avoid? >> >> I'd like to gather some enthusiasts for dinner at what I think is >> the best Indian restaurant (actually, a family-run chain) in the >> Bay Area: Pasand (http://www.pasand.com/). > > Are they the people who used to be on Stevens Creek in Cupertino near > the junction with Lawrence? They were OK, but not spectacular. I > drove past there last week, and they don't seem to be there any more. > > If anybody in that area is looking for a good Indian restaurant, I > preferred a Southern Indian place near the junction of Lawrence and > Central, near Computer Literacy. I forget the name, but they have a > big advertisement visible from Lawrence. I spoke too soon. Now I've (finally) got the info from their web site. Yes, I know the place, and it's still there (the one they talk about, about halfway between the other two I mentioned, again close to Lawrence). I don't like it, though admittedly I haven't been there for years, so it might have improved. There's no mention of a Berkeley location on the web page. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 21:41:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E27B814DC3 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:41:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19680; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:41:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990621221902.04666340@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:41:00 -0600 To: Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Cc: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:47 PM 6/22/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> I'd like to gather some enthusiasts for dinner at what I think is > > the best Indian restaurant (actually, a family-run chain) in the > > Bay Area: Pasand (http://www.pasand.com/). > >Are they the people who used to be on Stevens Creek in Cupertino near >the junction with Lawrence? They were OK, but not spectacular. I >drove past there last week, and they don't seem to be there any more. Yes, they're still there. In fact, they took over the space next door and doubled in size to meet demand. They make the best idli sambhar I've tasted -- bar none! -- and excellent dosas. For folks who don't know what these things are: sambhar is a thick vegetarian vegetable soup with a lentil base. An idli is a steamed bread dumpling made via natural fermentation; it has a wonderful sourdough taste. In this dish, it comes submerged in the soup. A dosa is a huge crepe (so big it sticks off the plate at each end) with a filling that includes potatoes, peas, carrots, and toasted mustard seed. They also have a killer biriyani -- a rice casserole flavored with whole cardamom pods. Hackers from the UK have remarked that it's hard to find good South Indian food in Great Britain. Which is true; for the most part, "Indian food" means North Indian food there. So, this place is a treat even for those coming over from the UK, where Indian food is much more common than in the US. The Santa Clara restaurant's sign shrunk a bit when they remodeled, because the city adopted a rather fascist sign code. In order to make the restaurant bigger, they had to make their sign smaller. (Go figure.) So you might have missed it. The Pasand I'm recommending, though, is their Berkeley location. Same family recipes, but much closer to where the conference is going to be held. The Berkeley restaurant is the original one. I was there last month. Good buffet at lunch; seriously great Tandoori at dinner. (If you like fish, try the Tandoori sea bass. Wonderful stuff. I've never had it done better anywhere.) Another interesting place to go in Berkeley is The Blue Nile (Ethiopian) on Telegraph. I've conducted hacker dinners there. But I like Indian food even better than Ethiopian, so Pasand would be my first choice. There's also Jade Villa in Oakland for Dim Sum, but you really have to go on Sunday morning to get the best they have to offer. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 21:52:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 940F814DC3 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:52:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19785; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:51:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990621225004.04616c50@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:51:49 -0600 To: Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Cc: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990622135333.U76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org P.S. -- By the way, the Santa Clara Pasand was never on Stevens Creek; it has always been at Lawrence and El Camino Real. El Camino and Stevens Creek look very similar in those parts; it's easy to mix them up. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 21:57:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C171512D for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:57:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA13080; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:27:39 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA79879; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:27:49 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:27:48 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass Cc: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Message-ID: <19990622142748.Y76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> <19990622135333.U76907@freebie.lemis.com> <4.2.0.56.19990621225004.04616c50@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990621225004.04616c50@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 10:51:49PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 21 June 1999 at 22:51:49 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > P.S. -- By the way, the Santa Clara Pasand was never on Stevens Creek; it > has always been at Lawrence and El Camino Real. El Camino and Stevens Creek > look very similar in those parts; it's easy to mix them up. See my followup. I know the difference; there were really two restaurants, one on Stevens Creek and one (Pasand) in a shopping mall on the corner of El Camino and Lawrence. You go almost straight past it when you leave Lawrence westbound for El Camino North. Pasand is still there, the other one (something mahal?) isn't. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 22: 6:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD2715089 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:06:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19944; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:05:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990621225920.04526d00@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:05:33 -0600 To: Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Cc: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990622142748.Y76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.56.19990621225004.04616c50@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> <19990622135333.U76907@freebie.lemis.com> <4.2.0.56.19990621225004.04616c50@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:27 PM 6/22/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >See my followup. I know the difference; there were really two >restaurants, one on Stevens Creek and one (Pasand) in a shopping mall >on the corner of El Camino and Lawrence. You go almost straight past >it when you leave Lawrence westbound for El Camino North. Pasand is >still there, the other one (something mahal?) isn't. You're probably thinking of Royal Taj. They're not there anymore. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 22:23:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1AB14D36 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:23:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA13193; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:53:08 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA80032; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:53:18 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:53:18 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass Cc: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Message-ID: <19990622145318.A76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.56.19990621225004.04616c50@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> <19990622135333.U76907@freebie.lemis.com> <4.2.0.56.19990621225004.04616c50@localhost> <19990622142748.Y76907@freebie.lemis.com> <4.2.0.56.19990621225920.04526d00@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990621225920.04526d00@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 11:05:33PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 21 June 1999 at 23:05:33 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 02:27 PM 6/22/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> See my followup. I know the difference; there were really two >> restaurants, one on Stevens Creek and one (Pasand) in a shopping mall >> on the corner of El Camino and Lawrence. You go almost straight past >> it when you leave Lawrence westbound for El Camino North. Pasand is >> still there, the other one (something mahal?) isn't. > > You're probably thinking of Royal Taj. They're not there anymore. Right, that's the name. If it wasn't mahal, it must have been taj :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 21 23:50:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A9E14BD2 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:50:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id XAA35459; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:49:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:49:43 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con Message-ID: <19990621234943.I73528@001101.zer0.org> References: <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 10:07:35PM -0600 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 10:07:35PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > I'd like to gather some enthusiasts for dinner at what I think is > the best Indian restaurant (actually, a family-run chain) in the > Bay Area: Pasand (http://www.pasand.com/). Their Berkeley location Pasand is indeed yummy, but for the best Indian in the Bay Area, I have to say Amber India Cuisine, on El Camino Real in Mountain View. (A bit far away for a dinner gathering, I'm afraid.) Has anyone else here eaten at Amber? Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Information wants to be free. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 2:13:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE8C1529D for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 02:13:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA78175; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:13:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Brett Glass Cc: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con References: <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 22 Jun 1999 11:13:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: Brett Glass's message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:07:35 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > I used to run into famed mathematician, > LISPer, and "Life" inventor Bill Gosper regularly at their Santa Clara > restaurant. Umm, if it's the Game of Life you're thinking of, the inventor is John Conway. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 2:26:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8B0C1529D; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 02:26:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15052; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:26:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA86641; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:26:06 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:26:05 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Brian F. Feldman" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: __FreeBSD_version hairsplitting [was Re: cvs commit: doc/en/handbook/ports chapter.sgml] Message-ID: <19990622112605.H81707@bitbox.follo.net> References: <19990621122224.S63035@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian F. Feldman on Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 02:34:01PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [I'm moving this to -chat] On Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 02:34:01PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 20, 1999 at 08:03:45PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > > > But __FreeBSD_version is mainly for the ports system anyway! > > > > Disagree. __FreeBSD_version is mainly so any developer that maintain > > something outside the FreeBSD tree can be able to make it work with > > most versions of FreeBSD. In a way, it is a testimony to our > > ineptness at creating and maintaining good APIs. > > The ports system is the collection of programs for FreeBSD; No. The ports system is infrastructure to easily build, install, and uninstall a set[1] of programs for use under FreeBSD. This set is a small subset of the complete set of programs that can run under FreeBSD. > how does that not use __FreeBSD_version? Ports do that. And most of > the time, with any changes, it is not the API that changes but the > ABI. There are other mechanisms than __FreeBSD_version for handling that. __FreeBSD_version is for handling API differences; it is at source level. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 2:31:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1128B153A8 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 02:30:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id CAA96804; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 02:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 02:29:14 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Greg Lehey Cc: Brett Glass , Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Message-ID: <19990622022914.A96741@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 01:47:57PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 01:47:57PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Monday, 21 June 1999 at 22:07:35 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > > At 11:05 PM 6/21/99 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > >> Hi folks, > >> > >> Is it too early to start planning meetings and gatherings around the > >> FreeBSD Con ()? > >> > >> I'm planning on being in the area from the 16th until the 24th of October. > >> Any FreeBSD users in the area fancy meeting up for dinner, sight-seeing, > >> and so on? > >> > >> Any recommendations for things to do over there, or places to avoid? > > > > I'd like to gather some enthusiasts for dinner at what I think is > > the best Indian restaurant (actually, a family-run chain) in the > > Bay Area: Pasand (http://www.pasand.com/). > > Are they the people who used to be on Stevens Creek in Cupertino near > the junction with Lawrence? They were OK, but not spectacular. I > drove past there last week, and they don't seem to be there any more. > > If anybody in that area is looking for a good Indian restaurant, I > preferred a Southern Indian place near the junction of Lawrence and > Central, near Computer Literacy. I forget the name, but they have a > big advertisement visible from Lawrence. For really good Indian in the Cupertino area, the best I found was Ranguli ( I know I just murdered the spelling of that ). It's little family run restaurant on the North-East corner of El Camino and Lawrence. As to Indian in Berkeley, check back with me in a few months. My wife and I live in Berkeley and we are currently working our way through the Indian restaurants around town. So far nothing stands out. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 3:56: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C574A15042 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 03:55:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA14460; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:25:52 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id UAA01163; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:26:02 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:26:02 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Cc: Brett Glass , Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Message-ID: <19990622202602.K76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> <19990622022914.A96741@ontario.mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990622022914.A96741@ontario.mooseriver.com>; from Josef Grosch on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 02:29:14AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 2:29:14 -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 01:47:57PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Monday, 21 June 1999 at 22:07:35 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >>> At 11:05 PM 6/21/99 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: >>>> Hi folks, >>>> >>>> Is it too early to start planning meetings and gatherings around the >>>> FreeBSD Con ()? >>>> >>>> I'm planning on being in the area from the 16th until the 24th of October. >>>> Any FreeBSD users in the area fancy meeting up for dinner, sight-seeing, >>>> and so on? >>>> >>>> Any recommendations for things to do over there, or places to avoid? >>> >>> I'd like to gather some enthusiasts for dinner at what I think is >>> the best Indian restaurant (actually, a family-run chain) in the >>> Bay Area: Pasand (http://www.pasand.com/). >> >> Are they the people who used to be on Stevens Creek in Cupertino near >> the junction with Lawrence? They were OK, but not spectacular. I >> drove past there last week, and they don't seem to be there any more. >> >> If anybody in that area is looking for a good Indian restaurant, I >> preferred a Southern Indian place near the junction of Lawrence and >> Central, near Computer Literacy. I forget the name, but they have a >> big advertisement visible from Lawrence. > > For really good Indian in the Cupertino area, the best I found was Ranguli > ( I know I just murdered the spelling of that ). It's little family run > restaurant on the North-East corner of El Camino and Lawrence. That makes it either next to or identical to Pasands. How do they relate? > As to Indian in Berkeley, check back with me in a few months. My > wife and I live in Berkeley and we are currently working our way > through the Indian restaurants around town. So far nothing stands > out. Do that. I'll help you for a few days prior to the conference :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 3:58:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (unknown [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BC8714BE3 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 03:57:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.36]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990622110004.WYL364447.mta2-rme@wocker>; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:00:04 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Nik Clayton Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:57:23 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990622110004.WYL364447.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 21 Jun 99, at 23:05, Nik Clayton wrote: > I'm planning on being in the area from the 16th until the 24th of October. > Any FreeBSD users in the area fancy meeting up for dinner, sight-seeing, > and so on? Count me in on that. -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 6:13:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F36CB15329 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 06:13:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22755; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:13:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Restaurants : was FreeBSD Con In-Reply-To: <19990621234943.I73528@001101.zer0.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yes, when I was out there a few years ago working for Poppe Tyson for a week, I stayed at the Hyatt Rickeys in Palo Alto...there was an indian restaurant down the street...(a ways walking I don;t remember how far though) but the Indian was great, the Vindaloo was HOT HOT HOT (although now I could take much worse....). COuld this be the one? -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Gregory Sutter wrote: > On Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 10:07:35PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > > I'd like to gather some enthusiasts for dinner at what I think is > > the best Indian restaurant (actually, a family-run chain) in the > > Bay Area: Pasand (http://www.pasand.com/). Their Berkeley location > > Pasand is indeed yummy, but for the best Indian in the Bay Area, I > have to say Amber India Cuisine, on El Camino Real in Mountain View. > (A bit far away for a dinner gathering, I'm afraid.) Has anyone > else here eaten at Amber? > > Greg > -- > Gregory S. Sutter Information wants to be free. > mailto:gsutter@pobox.com > http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ > PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 6:17:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1A4114F3D for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 06:17:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22802; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:15:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Cc: Greg Lehey , Brett Glass , Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) In-Reply-To: <19990622022914.A96741@ontario.mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org And you would know....coming from the NYC area.... ;) (hold on, bagels are on thier way, I keep forgetting to grab them) -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 01:47:57PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Monday, 21 June 1999 at 22:07:35 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > > > At 11:05 PM 6/21/99 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > > >> Hi folks, > > >> > > >> Is it too early to start planning meetings and gatherings around the > > >> FreeBSD Con ()? > > >> > > >> I'm planning on being in the area from the 16th until the 24th of October. > > >> Any FreeBSD users in the area fancy meeting up for dinner, sight-seeing, > > >> and so on? > > >> > > >> Any recommendations for things to do over there, or places to avoid? > > > > > > I'd like to gather some enthusiasts for dinner at what I think is > > > the best Indian restaurant (actually, a family-run chain) in the > > > Bay Area: Pasand (http://www.pasand.com/). > > > > Are they the people who used to be on Stevens Creek in Cupertino near > > the junction with Lawrence? They were OK, but not spectacular. I > > drove past there last week, and they don't seem to be there any more. > > > > If anybody in that area is looking for a good Indian restaurant, I > > preferred a Southern Indian place near the junction of Lawrence and > > Central, near Computer Literacy. I forget the name, but they have a > > big advertisement visible from Lawrence. > > > For really good Indian in the Cupertino area, the best I found was Ranguli > ( I know I just murdered the spelling of that ). It's little family run > restaurant on the North-East corner of El Camino and Lawrence. As to > Indian in Berkeley, check back with me in a few months. My wife and I live > in Berkeley and we are currently working our way through the Indian > restaurants around town. So far nothing stands out. > > > Josef > > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 6:48:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41CB14E08 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 06:48:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22044; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990622074053.03b964d0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:42:57 -0600 To: Pat Lynch , Gregory Sutter From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Restaurants : was FreeBSD Con Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <19990621234943.I73528@001101.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org No; the one on El Camino in Mountain View is A Passage To India. There's another one on Castro in Mountain View called Sue's Kitchen. Did you eat at Hobee's when you were at the Hyatt Rickeys? --Brett Glass At 09:13 AM 6/22/99 -0400, Pat Lynch wrote: >Yes, when I was out there a few years ago working for Poppe Tyson for a >week, I stayed at the Hyatt Rickeys in Palo Alto...there was an indian >restaurant down the street...(a ways walking I don;t remember how far >though) but the Indian was great, the Vindaloo was HOT HOT HOT (although >now I could take much worse....). COuld this be the one? > >-Pat > >___________________________________________________________________________ > >Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net > lynch@bsdunix.net >Systems Administrator Rush Networking >___________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 6:48:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA64150C6 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 06:48:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22048; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:48:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990622074339.03b84350@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:45:05 -0600 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con Cc: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As I understand it, Gosper either invented it or played a serious part in doing so. An unusual man, he always walked around with a gooseneck flashlight in his vest pocket. Maybe so that he could peer into the guts of the PDP-10. --Brett At 11:13 AM 6/22/99 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >Brett Glass writes: > > I used to run into famed mathematician, > > LISPer, and "Life" inventor Bill Gosper regularly at their Santa Clara > > restaurant. > >Umm, if it's the Game of Life you're thinking of, the inventor is John >Conway. > >DES >-- >Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 6:49:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E2E14E08 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 06:49:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22041; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990622073802.03a44f00@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:40:32 -0600 To: Greg Lehey , jgrosch@MooseRiver.com From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Cc: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990622202602.K76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990622022914.A96741@ontario.mooseriver.com> <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> <19990622022914.A96741@ontario.mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:26 PM 6/22/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> For really good Indian in the Cupertino area, the best I found was Ranguli > > ( I know I just murdered the spelling of that ). It's little family run > > restaurant on the North-East corner of El Camino and Lawrence. > >That makes it either next to or identical to Pasands. How do they >relate? They're competitors. Ranguli is actually on the physical northwest and logical southwest corner, next to KMart and an Indian grocery. They're not nearly as good as Pasand (my opinion, anyway). --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 7:22: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AA451152E9 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:21:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 87575 invoked from network); 22 Jun 1999 14:21:53 -0000 Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.40) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 1999 14:21:53 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-1.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA56090; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:21:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-1.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:21:53 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Brett Glass Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990622074339.03b84350@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > As I understand it, Gosper either invented it or played a serious part > in doing so. > > An unusual man, he always walked around with a gooseneck flashlight in > his vest pocket. Maybe so that he could peer into the guts of the PDP-10. So what's wrong with carrying a gooseneck flashlight? I keep mine in my shirt pocket or clipped to my belt, because I don't wear vests, but I don't see how anyone would think this odd. David Scheidt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 7:26: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C011534E for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:26:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22367; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:25:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990622082300.00d1e850@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:25:32 -0600 To: David Scheidt From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.56.19990622074339.03b84350@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:21 AM 6/22/99 -0500, David Scheidt wrote: >So what's wrong with carrying a gooseneck flashlight? On formal occasions? Seriously, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. It was unusual and a little awkward, though. The gooseneck was a long one, and he kept it in his shirt pocket along with an interesting assortment of other stuff. He'd sit, eat Indian food, and talk about the Indian mathematical prodigy Ramanujan.... --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 7:29: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC2AB1533F; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:29:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA63305; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:29:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Eivind Eklund Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: __FreeBSD_version hairsplitting [was Re: cvs commit: doc/en/handbook/ports chapter.sgml] In-Reply-To: <19990622112605.H81707@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > [I'm moving this to -chat] > > On Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 02:34:01PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > On Sun, Jun 20, 1999 at 08:03:45PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > > > > But __FreeBSD_version is mainly for the ports system anyway! > > > > > > Disagree. __FreeBSD_version is mainly so any developer that maintain > > > something outside the FreeBSD tree can be able to make it work with > > > most versions of FreeBSD. In a way, it is a testimony to our > > > ineptness at creating and maintaining good APIs. > > > > The ports system is the collection of programs for FreeBSD; > > No. The ports system is infrastructure to easily build, install, and > uninstall a set[1] of programs for use under FreeBSD. This set is a > small subset of the complete set of programs that can run under > FreeBSD. Okay, I worded something terribly :) > > > how does that not use __FreeBSD_version? Ports do that. And most of > > the time, with any changes, it is not the API that changes but the > > ABI. > > There are other mechanisms than __FreeBSD_version for handling that. > __FreeBSD_version is for handling API differences; it is at source > level. Look at the latest pidentd port. How could that be done without __FreeBSD_\ version? I'm _NOT_ converting pidentd to *blech *autoconf. > > Eivind. > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 7:40:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD567153B7 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:40:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA19749; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:40:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA01657; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:40:12 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:40:12 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Brian F. Feldman" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: __FreeBSD_version hairsplitting [was Re: cvs commit: doc/en/handbook/ports chapter.sgml] Message-ID: <19990622164012.A817@bitbox.follo.net> References: <19990622112605.H81707@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian F. Feldman on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 10:29:02AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 10:29:02AM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > how does that not use __FreeBSD_version? Ports do that. And most of > > > the time, with any changes, it is not the API that changes but the > > > ABI. > > > > There are other mechanisms than __FreeBSD_version for handling that. > > __FreeBSD_version is for handling API differences; it is at source > > level. > > Look at the latest pidentd port. How could that be done without __FreeBSD_\ > version? I'm _NOT_ converting pidentd to *blech *autoconf. pidentd is abusing kernel memory as an API. This is still an API change. The ABI is the binary interface that an executable can expect. If this change, the executable need to be recompiled. If the API didn't change along with the ABI, it can be recompiled from the same sources to generate a new working executable. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 7:56:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.tellique.de (big-gw.tellique.de [195.126.133.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901E0153A4 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:56:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ni@tellique.de) Received: from tellique.de (nolde.tellique.de [62.144.106.52]) by mail.tellique.de (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24235; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:55:37 +0200 Message-ID: <376FA3E8.D9EA7F23@tellique.de> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:55:36 +0200 From: Juergen Nickelsen Organization: Tellique Kommunikationstechnik GmbH, Germany X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con References: <4.2.0.56.19990622074339.03b84350@localhost> <4.2.0.56.19990622082300.00d1e850@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: [on Bill Gosper] > He'd sit, eat Indian food, and talk about the Indian mathematical > prodigy Ramanujan.... Wasn't it Ramanujan who said that seeing (reading, or whatever) a number always seemed like meeting a good old friend? Sometimes I feel like that, although I am by no means a mathematical genius. Greetings, -- Juergen Nickelsen Tellique Kommunikationstechnik GmbH Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25, 13355 Berlin, Germany Tel. +49 30 46307-552 / Fax +49 30 46307-579 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 8:15:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EC7814F4E; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:15:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA90492; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:15:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Eivind Eklund Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: __FreeBSD_version hairsplitting [was Re: cvs commit: doc/en/handbook/ports chapter.sgml] In-Reply-To: <19990622164012.A817@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 10:29:02AM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > > how does that not use __FreeBSD_version? Ports do that. And most of > > > > the time, with any changes, it is not the API that changes but the > > > > ABI. > > > > > > There are other mechanisms than __FreeBSD_version for handling that. > > > __FreeBSD_version is for handling API differences; it is at source > > > level. > > > > Look at the latest pidentd port. How could that be done without __FreeBSD_\ > > version? I'm _NOT_ converting pidentd to *blech *autoconf. > > pidentd is abusing kernel memory as an API. This is still an API change. > > The ABI is the binary interface that an executable can expect. If this > change, the executable need to be recompiled. If the API didn't change > along with the ABI, it can be recompiled from the same sources to generate a > new working executable. As for pidentd, I'm going to have a sysctl to get socket credentials soon... As for the argument itself... *waves the white flag* > > Eivind. > > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 10:30:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75D3D1545A for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:30:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10wUNK-0000FV-0B for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:30:22 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10wKxU-000Dnp-00 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:27:04 +0100 Content-Length: 861 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990621221902.04666340@localhost> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:27:04 +0100 (BST) From: Duncan Barclay To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hackers from the UK have remarked that it's hard to find good South Indian > food in Great Britain. Which is true; for the most part, "Indian food" means > North Indian food there. So, this place is a treat even for those coming over > from the UK, where Indian food is much more common than in the US. The Southern Indian food we get is mostly limited to the Phall - a stupid invention, with chilli, chilli, chilli, chilli and a little bit of sauce, no taste. We also have more people emplyed in Indian resturants than our iron, coal and steel industry combined. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 11:39:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6A0414C85 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:39:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA48604; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:36:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:36:21 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Josef Grosch Cc: Greg Lehey , Brett Glass , Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Message-ID: <19990622113621.J73528@001101.zer0.org> References: <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> <19990622022914.A96741@ontario.mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990622022914.A96741@ontario.mooseriver.com>; from Josef Grosch on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 02:29:14AM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 02:29:14AM -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: > > Indian in Berkeley, check back with me in a few months. My wife and I live > in Berkeley and we are currently working our way through the Indian > restaurants around town. So far nothing stands out. Again not appropriate for a FreeBSDcon meeting (this time due to the size of the establishment), but the best Indian food I've experienced in Berkeley is Breads of India, on Sacramento. They have a small menu which changes daily. Each dish comes with a different type of Indian bread, all of which are delicious there. freebsd-indianfood@freebsd.org? Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter My reality check just bounced. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 12:13: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gw-nl3.philips.com (gw-nl3.philips.com [192.68.44.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8214D1563A for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:12:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl3.philips.com with ESMTP id VAA25277 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:12:52 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl3.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma025274; Tue, 22 Jun 99 21:12:52 +0200 Received: from hal.mpn.cp.philips.com (hal.mpn.cp.philips.com [130.139.64.195]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with SMTP id VAA12068 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:12:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 87272 invoked by uid 666); 22 Jun 1999 19:13:13 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:13:13 +0200 From: Jos Backus To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: Bill Fumerola , Tim Vanderhoek , freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/10131: bug in strptime(3) Message-ID: <19990622211313.A87234@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Reply-To: Jos Backus References: <7748.930071158@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <7748.930071158@axl.noc.iafrica.com>; from Sheldon Hearn on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 07:05:58PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 07:05:58PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > If you have to think about mail that has uuencoded goodies in it, you're > obviously not using nmh. > > $ show -noshow |uudecode Pfft: |uudecode -p Less typing, too ;-) -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 13:25: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 674E31518D for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:25:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25012; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:24:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990622141655.0461fd20@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:21:07 -0600 To: Duncan Barclay , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.56.19990621221902.04666340@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:27 AM 6/22/99 +0100, Duncan Barclay wrote: >We also have more people emplyed in Indian resturants than our iron, coal and >steel industry combined. A sign of civilization! The Brits have the best Indian food in the world -- something that makes me unabashedly envious. But it's really all north Indian. That's why Pasand would be a treat. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 13:25:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C7A01518D for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25015; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:24:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990622142153.04621220@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:24:53 -0600 To: Gregory Sutter , Josef Grosch From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Cc: Greg Lehey , Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990622113621.J73528@001101.zer0.org> References: <19990622022914.A96741@ontario.mooseriver.com> <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <4.2.0.56.19990621220114.00a2c590@localhost> <19990622134757.T76907@freebie.lemis.com> <19990622022914.A96741@ontario.mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:36 AM 6/22/99 -0700, Gregory Sutter wrote: >Again not appropriate for a FreeBSDcon meeting (this time due to the >size of the establishment), but the best Indian food I've experienced >in Berkeley is Breads of India, on Sacramento. They have a small >menu which changes daily. Each dish comes with a different type of >Indian bread, all of which are delicious there. Which reminds me of a true story: a Celtic band I know of was asked to play at Sujatha's restaurant in Berkeley (also South Indian, but not nearly as good as Pasand). After I watched them perform and ate a basket of chapati, I summed up the experience for them: Bodhran and bread in India. (GD&R) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 15:29: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CAEA152EE for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:28:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA17433; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:58:49 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id HAA03399; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:59:01 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:59:01 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass Cc: Duncan Barclay , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Message-ID: <19990623075901.L76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.56.19990621221902.04666340@localhost> <4.2.0.56.19990622141655.0461fd20@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990622141655.0461fd20@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 02:21:07PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 14:21:07 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 08:27 AM 6/22/99 +0100, Duncan Barclay wrote: > >> We also have more people emplyed in Indian resturants than our iron, coal and >> steel industry combined. > > A sign of civilization! The Brits have the best Indian food in the world -- > something that makes me unabashedly envious. Hmm, not a thing I'd agree on. The British Indian food is very different from the food in Northern India. It's like the Dutch interpretation of Indonesian food: based on colonial tradition and orthogonalized since then to fit in a matrix. > But it's really all north Indian. That's the base, sure. > That's why Pasand would be a treat. Well, I grew up in Malaysia, where Southern Indian food predominates (and the locals think you can make it Northern Indian by adding cream), and Pasand isn't very close. But, as I say, my recollections are several years old, and they could have improved since then. I'll certainly give them a chance in October. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 15:32:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371D11547F; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:32:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip155.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.155]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A01137079; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA30016; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:32:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:32:45 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Jesus Monroy Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vi(1) is for whimps Message-ID: <19990622173245.A29250@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <19990622215943.15205.qmail@nwcst292.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <19990622215943.15205.qmail@nwcst292.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 02:59:43PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 22, 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: > vi(1) is for whimps > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html Well, you should've posted that to -chat... Second, there are other things people use vi for. You can't add a sentence to a paragraph with cat as easily as you could with vi, such as: So as I headed to the bakery to get some new bread, I decided to stop at the newspaper stand and pick up the sunday paper. So as I headed to the bakery to get some new, delicious white bread, I decided to stop at the newspaper stand to pick up the Sunday edition of the Houston Chronicle. vi is for people who want to get things done the right way with a standard tool that is meant for editing files. If you want to be pedantic, you shouldn't use 'cat' at all for editing files! cat is meant to catenate two or more files to stdout. Try ed. (Although, if taken properly, the page is a good laugh) > > --- > "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, > pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." > http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Chris Costello I bet the human brain is a kludge. - Marvin Minsky To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 15:39:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 24D26154D9 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:39:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 75088 invoked from network); 22 Jun 1999 22:39:08 -0000 Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.40) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 1999 22:39:08 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-1.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA64273; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:39:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-1.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:39:07 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Chris Costello Cc: Jesus Monroy , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vi(1) is for whimps In-Reply-To: <19990622173245.A29250@holly.dyndns.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > Try ed. > ed(1) or ed(4)? David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 15:49:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from respondhere.net (unknown [209.185.190.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6F701549D; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:49:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lexington@email.com) Received: from email.com [38.26.24.90] by respondhere.net (SMTPD32-5.00) id A2F1E50162; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:49:21 EDT From: Subject: Executive NewsLetter Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:48:29 Message-Id: <610.682841.734274@unknown> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear Candidate, You were recently appointed by The Office of the Managing Directors for a free listing in the Millenium Edition of Lexington Publishing Who's Who Directory. Please fill out the form provided at our web site below. http://www.lexingtonwhoswho.net As a highly respected professional in your field of expertise, we believe your contribution merit very seriously consideration for inclusion in The Lexington Publishing Who's Who Directory. To maintain the level of accuracy, we ask you to click on the web address highlighted below and fill out the brief bit of information required for inclusion. http://www.lexingtonwhoswho.net There is no cost or obligation to be listed in The Lexington Publishing Who's Who Directory. All applicants will receive free listing compliments of Lexington Publishing Who's Who. Sincere thanks, Lisa Narod Office of Public Affairs For accuracy and publication purposes, we need you to complete and email this form at your earliest opportunity. There is no cost or obligation to update or submit your biographical data. IF you no longer wish to receive our Exclusive Newsletter containing critical updates to your Career data and other offers from Lexington Who's Who simply goto the following website to be removed. http://www.lexingtonwhoswho.net/remove.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 15:55:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56BF91547F for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:55:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip155.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.155]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E1137079; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA30126; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:55:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:55:58 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: David Scheidt Cc: Jesus Monroy , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vi(1) is for whimps Message-ID: <19990622175558.B29250@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <19990622173245.A29250@holly.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: ; from David Scheidt on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 05:39:07PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 22, 1999, David Scheidt wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > > > Try ed. > > > ed(1) or ed(4)? Whichever makes you happy. (Although an ethernet driver doubling as an editor-- I'd love to see that) > > David > -- Chris Costello The purpose of computing is insight, not numbers. - Hamming To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 16:49:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B9A14C0C for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:49:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26654; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:49:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990622174511.044c6b10@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:49:34 -0600 To: Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Restaurants (was: FreeBSD Con) Cc: Duncan Barclay , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990623075901.L76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.56.19990622141655.0461fd20@localhost> <4.2.0.56.19990621221902.04666340@localhost> <4.2.0.56.19990622141655.0461fd20@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:59 AM 6/23/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >Well, I grew up in Malaysia, where Southern Indian food predominates >(and the locals think you can make it Northern Indian by adding >cream), and Pasand isn't very close. I think the thing is just that Southern India is very big. Cooking styles vary by province and city. For instance, in some places, sambhar has tamarind or cocoanut or asfoetida; in other places, it doesn't. Pasand uses the authentic recipes of a Southern Indian family. A couple of brothers came over and started the first one; the rest of the family followed. It's a great entrepreneurial success story. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 17: 1: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14A815459 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA11615; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:30:52 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA03462; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:30:46 +0930 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:30:46 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: freebsd@cliffsworld.com Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rc5 and PVM? In-Reply-To: <32CC16A0.3772A3C8@cliffsworld.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, cliff ainsworth III wrote: > Is it possible to use run the rc5 client under FreeBSDs port of PVM I doubt it, but why would you want to? Just run a client on each machine you have access to. RC5 self-parallelizes by virtue of already being a distributed client. Kris ----- "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 17:29:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4CB14BCC for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:29:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id UAA18787; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:30:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199906230030.UAA18787@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: vi(1) is for whimps In-Reply-To: <19990622173245.A29250@holly.dyndns.org> from Chris Costello at "Jun 22, 99 05:32:45 pm" To: chris@calldei.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jesus.monroy@usa.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Costello wrote, > On Tue, Jun 22, 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: > > vi(1) is for whimps > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html If you've installed emacs on your system, see: /usr/local/share/emacs/20.2/etc/JOKES The news posting with subject: The True Path (long) From back when a few lines of text was 'long' on USENET. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 19:29:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D5924.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.157.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D01C61513F for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:29:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA42227; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:29:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:29:33 +0000 (GMT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: Chris Costello Cc: Jesus Monroy , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi(1) is for whimps In-Reply-To: <19990622173245.A29250@holly.dyndns.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Actually, I was once in a situation where I needed to edit /etc/passwd (because some idiot trashed it and no one could log in as root), but /bin was on a different partition which I couldn't mount for some reason from single-user mode (I don't know, I didn't set up this machine), thus making it impossible to run vi or even ed. So I ended up doing echo root:*:0:0:admin:/root:/bin/csh >/etc/passwd echo daemon:*:1:1:daemon:/root:/sbin/nologin >>/etc/passwd etc. until I was done :) On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Chris Costello wrote: | On Tue, Jun 22, 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: | > vi(1) is for whimps | > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html | | Well, you should've posted that to -chat... | | Second, there are other things people use vi for. You can't | add a sentence to a paragraph with cat as easily as you could | with vi, such as: | | So as I headed to the bakery to get some new bread, I decided | to stop at the newspaper stand and pick up the sunday paper. | | So as I headed to the bakery to get some new, delicious white | bread, I decided to stop at the newspaper stand to pick up the | Sunday edition of the Houston Chronicle. | | vi is for people who want to get things done the right way | with a standard tool that is meant for editing files. | | If you want to be pedantic, you shouldn't use 'cat' at all for | editing files! cat is meant to catenate two or more files to | stdout. | | Try ed. | | (Although, if taken properly, the page is a good laugh) Cliff Crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ -><- i l i k e o a t m e a l )O( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 19:44:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D5924.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.157.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223DB1524A for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:44:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA42268; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:45:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:45:08 +0000 (GMT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: cjclark@home.com Cc: chris@calldei.com, jesus.monroy@usa.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi(1) is for whimps In-Reply-To: <199906230030.UAA18787@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Crist J. Clark wrote: | If you've installed emacs on your system, see: | | /usr/local/share/emacs/20.2/etc/JOKES | | The news posting with subject: | | The True Path (long) | | >From back when a few lines of text was 'long' on USENET. I'm tempted to install emacs just to see what this says.. Nah. Tempation's passed. :) Cliff Crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ -><- i l i k e o a t m e a l )O( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 22 21: 2:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C196814BDE for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:02:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-14-41.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.14.41]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA13731 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:02:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA89803 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:37:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199906230337.WAA89803@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con In-reply-to: Message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:21:27 PDT." <14493.930021687@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:37:08 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > Go up to Telegraph Ave at some point, at least, and see all the nifty > street people. I'll be having a "drug buyers tour" during the > conference where I tell you which street corners to avoid and who to > get all the best LSD from. Haha. Just kidding. It's actually a > pretty interesting walk when the weather is nice and Telegraph is a > lot more fun than it is dangerous if you're simply clued-in enough to > go wander it before 3am or so - no different than Times Square in NYC > that way, I guess. A good way to add to the atmosphere is for everybody to wear red shirt, red slacks, and green tennis shoes. And carry a gooseneck flashlight. If anyone asks about the flashlight, tell 'em its a low power phaser. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 1:52: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76AC14CE2 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA12404; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:51:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Cc: cjclark@home.com, chris@calldei.com, jesus.monroy@usa.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi(1) is for whimps References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 23 Jun 1999 10:51:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality's message of "Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:45:08 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 119 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality writes: > I'm tempted to install emacs just to see what this says.. To save you the pain, I've included a copy here. > Nah. Tempation's passed. :) :) From: patl@athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti) Message-ID: <1991Jul11.031731.9260@athena.mit.edu> Sender: news@athena.mit.edu (News system) Subject: The True Path (long) Date: 11 Jul 91 03:17:31 GMT Path: ai-lab!mintaka!olivea!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!patl Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs,alt.slack Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 95 Xref: ai-lab alt.religion.emacs:244 alt.slack:1935 When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi *and* Emacs are just too damn slow. They print useless messages like, 'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'. So I use the editor that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time. Ed, man! !man ed ED(1) UNIX Programmer's Manual ED(1) NAME ed - text editor SYNOPSIS ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ] DESCRIPTION Ed is the standard text editor. - --- Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first alphabetically, but because it's the standard. Everyone else loves ed because it's ED! "Ed is the standard text editor." And ed doesn't waste space on my Timex Sinclair. Just look: - -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 24 Oct 29 1929 /bin/ed - -rwxr-xr-t 4 root 1310720 Jan 1 1970 /usr/ucb/vi - -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 5.89824e37 Oct 22 1990 /usr/bin/emacs Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed. Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K; and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!! "Ed is the standard text editor." Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed: golem> ed ? help ? ? ? quit ? exit ? bye ? hello? ? eat flaming death ? ^C ? ^C ? ^D ? - --- Note the consistent user interface and error reportage. Ed is generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm the novice with verbosity. "Ed is the standard text editor." Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all. ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!! When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless help screens and cursor positioning code! I just want an EDitor!! Not a "viitor". Not a "emacsitor". Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED! ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!! TEXT EDITOR. When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their "edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi? No. Emacs? Surely you jest. They chose the most karmic editor of all. The standard. Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on. If you are an idiot, you should use Emacs. If you are an Emacs, you should not be vi. If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION. THE SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE FAITHLESS. DO NOT GIVE IN!!! THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!! ? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 4:17: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from idiotswitch.org (cr575310-a.shprd1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.185.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97D0714FD2 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 04:16:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dark@idiotswitch.org) Received: (qmail 41919 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 07:15:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO a11.idiotswitch.org) (10.0.0.11) by 10.0.0.1 with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 07:15:12 -0000 From: Rod Taylor To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:12:59 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99062307185100.00965@a11.idiotswitch.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Quinlan wrote: > > > Again yet another high profile company jumping in to bed with Linux. > > I think FBSD needs a bit of PR work? > > Okay, so what are you doing about it, or is this a SEP? > I tried once to convince a small local computer store who had decided to do pre-installs of RedHat linux to do a few other linux distributions as well as atleast 1 bsd distribution. I was ready to buy a couple of computers if they did FreeBSD. Their responce, was basically "They're not in the news much, so they can't be very good products. We want to sell the best to our customers". Aside from hte fact that their pc speakers are help in with hot glue... They stick to that principle. Solution? Make sure when people do big things with FreeBSD, they do atleast a minor press release. None of this Matrix stuff where they really don't want to do one. Somehow we gotta make BSD a buzzword. By doing that however, we know that a bunch of lamers who don't know anything and spend all their time in IRC asking where dir and copy went (aliased in redhat) will begin to appear more frequently. Can't ban them all.... -- Rod Taylor To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 4:19:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from www0x.netaddress.usa.net (www0x.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1968614BB8 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 04:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 15177 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jun 1999 11:19:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990623111924.15176.qmail@www0x.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.53 by www0x via web-mailer(M3.2.0.17) on Wed Jun 23 11:19:24 GMT 1999 Date: 23 Jun 99 04:19:24 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: chris@calldei.com, Jesus Monroy Subject: Re: [Re: vi(1) is for whimps] Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Costello wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: > > vi(1) is for whimps > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html > = > Well, you should've posted that to -chat... > = > Second, there are other things people use vi for. You can't > add a sentence to a paragraph with cat as easily as you could > with vi, such as: > = > So as I headed to the bakery to get some new bread, I decided > to stop at the newspaper stand and pick up the sunday paper. > = > So as I headed to the bakery to get some new, delicious white > bread, I decided to stop at the newspaper stand to pick up the > Sunday edition of the Houston Chronicle. > = > vi is for people who want to get things done the right way > with a standard tool that is meant for editing files. > = > If you want to be pedantic, you shouldn't use 'cat' at all for > editing files! cat is meant to catenate two or more files to > stdout. > = > Try ed. > = bologna, the example you gave simple point out that you didn't think about what you wanted to do in the first place. Hence, a rewrite was needed. So throw it out, don't hack it. cat(1) works fine, I write all my perl(1) scripts this way. PS:dont' fall for the bait. --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 4:21:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from relay02.netaddress.usa.net (relay02.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C33F155DA for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 04:21:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 2804 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 11:21:52 -0000 Received: from www0a.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.30) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 11:21:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 804 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jun 1999 11:21:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19990623112151.803.qmail@www0a.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.30 by www0a via web-mailer(M3.2.0.17) on Wed Jun 23 11:21:51 GMT 1999 Date: 23 Jun 99 04:21:51 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: chris@calldei.com, David Scheidt Subject: Re: [Re: vi(1) is for whimps] Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Costello wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 1999, David Scheidt wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > > = > > > Try ed. > > > = > > ed(1) or ed(4)? > = > Whichever makes you happy. (Although an ethernet driver > doubling as an editor-- I'd love to see that) > = I'm not sure, but I think I can get ed(4) to work. --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 4:33: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nwcst312.netaddress.usa.net (nwcst312.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E13114D2E for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 04:33:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 27101 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jun 1999 11:33:04 -0000 Message-ID: <19990623113304.27100.qmail@nwcst312.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.57 by nwcst312 via web-mailer(M3.2.0.17) on Wed Jun 23 11:33:04 GMT 1999 Date: 23 Jun 99 04:33:04 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Subject: Re: [Re: vi(1) is for whimps] Cc: cjclark@home.com, chris@calldei.com, jesus.monroy@usa.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality writes: > > I'm tempted to install emacs just to see what this says.. > = > To save you the pain, I've included a copy here. > = > > Nah. Tempation's passed. :) > = > :) > = Thank you for assisting me in my righteous cause. ;-> --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 7: 6:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C95215143 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:06:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01805; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990623080332.00b39730@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:06:00 -0600 To: Rod Taylor , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <99062307185100.00965@a11.idiotswitch.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD's PR is known to be very broken indeed. This subject has been beaten to death on the lists. Unless some folks see the light or radical action is taken, FreeBSD will be doomed to poor support due to inadequate evangelism and poor PR. --Brett Glass At 07:12 AM 6/23/99 +0000, Rod Taylor wrote: >On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Quinlan wrote: > > > > > Again yet another high profile company jumping in to bed with Linux. > > > I think FBSD needs a bit of PR work? > > > > Okay, so what are you doing about it, or is this a SEP? > > > >I tried once to convince a small local computer store who had decided to do >pre-installs of RedHat linux to do a few other linux distributions as well as >atleast 1 bsd distribution. I was ready to buy a couple of computers if they >did FreeBSD. > >Their responce, was basically "They're not in the news much, so they can't be >very good products. We want to sell the best to our customers". Aside from >hte fact that their pc speakers are help in with hot glue... They stick to >that principle. > >Solution? Make sure when people do big things with FreeBSD, they do atleast a >minor press release. None of this Matrix stuff where they really don't want to >do one. Somehow we gotta make BSD a buzzword. > >By doing that however, we know that a bunch of lamers who don't know anything >and spend all their time in IRC asking where dir and copy went (aliased in >redhat) will begin to appear more frequently. Can't ban them all.... > >-- > >Rod Taylor > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 7:19:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A9F1522C; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA19879; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:19:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: jmb@freebsd.org Cc: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? References: <4.2.0.56.19990623080332.00b39730@localhost> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 23 Jun 1999 16:19:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: Brett Glass's message of "Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:06:00 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Jonathan, I keep getting spam from this guy through the freebsd-chat list. Perhaps you should add him to hub's spam filter? Brett Glass writes: > FreeBSD's PR is known to be very broken indeed. This subject has been > beaten to death on the lists. Unless some folks see the light or > radical action is taken, FreeBSD will be doomed to poor support due > to inadequate evangelism and poor PR. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 7:42: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A511527F; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:42:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02190; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:41:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990623083717.009fc4a0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:41:54 -0600 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.56.19990623080332.00b39730@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry, DES, but the fact that you happen to disagree with someone is no excuse for attempting to censor what he or she says. Most people can gracefully cope with the fact that not everyone will always agree with them. Perhaps your desire to quash my views (and there are many who agree with me) reflects some deep-rooted insecurity about the issue on your part. --Brett Glass At 04:19 PM 6/23/99 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >Hi Jonathan, > >I keep getting spam from this guy through the freebsd-chat list. >Perhaps you should add him to hub's spam filter? > >Brett Glass writes: > > FreeBSD's PR is known to be very broken indeed. This subject has been > > beaten to death on the lists. Unless some folks see the light or > > radical action is taken, FreeBSD will be doomed to poor support due > > to inadequate evangelism and poor PR. > >DES >-- >Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 8:27:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [208.243.107.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4C01535E; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:27:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id F017440C9; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DB04F9AE6; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:27:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Brett Glass Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990623083717.009fc4a0@localhost> Message-ID: X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oh fuck. Can we please skip the flamewar this time? Pllllleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaassssssseeeee?????? While I happen to agree that FreeBSD could use more and better press, I don't really care to see the various factions fight out how to go about it again. On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Brett Glass wrote: :Sorry, DES, but the fact that you happen to disagree with someone is :no excuse for attempting to censor what he or she says. Most people :can gracefully cope with the fact that not everyone will always agree :with them. Perhaps your desire to quash my views (and there are many :who agree with me) reflects some deep-rooted insecurity about the :issue on your part. : :--Brett Glass : :At 04:19 PM 6/23/99 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: :>Hi Jonathan, :> :>I keep getting spam from this guy through the freebsd-chat list. :>Perhaps you should add him to hub's spam filter? :> :>Brett Glass writes: :> > FreeBSD's PR is known to be very broken indeed. This subject has been :> > beaten to death on the lists. Unless some folks see the light or :> > radical action is taken, FreeBSD will be doomed to poor support due :> > to inadequate evangelism and poor PR. :> :>DES :>-- :>Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no :> :> :>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :>with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message : : : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message : Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 8:39:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742CF14EDA; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:39:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02755; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:39:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990623093808.044e5a50@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:39:19 -0600 To: Jamie Bowden From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.56.19990623083717.009fc4a0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:27 AM 6/23/99 -0400, Jamie Bowden wrote: >Oh fuck. Can we please skip the flamewar this time? >Pllllleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaassssssseeeee?????? I agree, actually. >While I happen to agree that FreeBSD could use more and better press, I >don't really care to see the various factions fight out how to go about it >again. Fighting is useless. I am looking for investors who might be willing to fund something more productive than that. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 8:42:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDDE514EDA for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:42:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04650; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:41:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:41:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Kelly Yancey Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Team FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <000901bebd8e$bfcf6b80$291c453f@kbyanc.alcnet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat] Hi, On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Kelly Yancey wrote: > And how far is seta@home along in finding little green men? ;) We might find them in 2 minutes? 2 hours? Centuries? How soon we will break rc5-64? Using the most pessimistic view, another 15.3 years. (at roughly the current rate) > In the meantime, I personally can derive a greater sense of > accomplishment from more readily accomplishable tasks. True, cracking > digital encryption isn't as sexy, but it has a tangible timeframe to > completion. Tangible timeframe ... long. The point of the rc5 contests was to show that the encryption methods being used/limited by the US government were insufficient. That's certainly been true w/ the DES stuff, but rc5-64 has been going for 1.7 years and they haven't even gotten through 10% of the keyspace with the equivalent of some hundreds of thousands of P100's (I think that's what they said somewhere - can't find the reference). It seems to me that rc5-64 is pretty good. :-) In any case, my science background makes me far more interested in doing a more "traditional" science experiment than cracking encrypted messages where I can work for years and maybe never do anything but pump out keys. In SETI, I might not find aliens, but I might find something else of scientific interest. Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 9:17: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hostigos.otherwhen.com (mavery-gw.pernet.net [205.229.2.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E50914DB2 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:16:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mavery@mail.otherwhen.com) Received: from mail.otherwhen.com (mail.2.229.205.in-addr.arpa [205.229.2.19] (may be forged)) by hostigos.otherwhen.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA26271 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:21:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906231621.LAA26271@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Received: from PORKY/SpoolDir by mail.otherwhen.com (Mercury 1.45); 23 Jun 99 11:17:00 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by PORKY (Mercury 1.45); 23 Jun 99 11:16:32 -0600 From: "Mike Avery" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:16:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com References: Brett Glass's message of "Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:06:00 -0600" In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.10) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23 Jun 99, at 16:19, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > I keep getting spam from this guy through the freebsd-chat list. > Perhaps you should add him to hub's spam filter? > Brett Glass writes: > > FreeBSD's PR is known to be very broken indeed. Sorry, but it's not clear to me how, "I don't like this guy or what he has to say" makes his comments spam. When someone is very attached to a viewpoint, it's easy to become irrational on the topic. But still, sometimes it's worth looking around to do a reality check. IS the emperor wearing clothes? And is the kid who says he's naked an enemy of the state? The kid is either right or wrong... and it's hard to say he's an enemy of the state unless he's wrong, and his comments somehow harm the emperor. Brett's comment was not the first on the topic. His comment was logical and explained the evidence that someone else had presented, and that others had commented upon. Labelling Brett's comments SPAM, and silencing Brett will remove his voice.... but doing that will have no effect on the reality of whether or not the emperor is wearing clothes. And sooner or later winter will arrive, and if the emperor is truly naked, he'll freeze his nuts off. Mike ====================================================================== Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com (409)-842-2942 (work) ICQ: 16241692 * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * Recently Seen On A Bumper Sticker Near Your Home: Your kid may be an honor student but you're still an IDIOT! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 11:37:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFCF14EBA for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:37:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zen@buddhist.com) Received: from WhizKid (r44.bfm.org [208.18.213.140]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id OAA10326; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:36:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990623133706.00981e70@mail.bfm.org> X-Sender: stanislav@mail.bfm.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:37:06 -0500 To: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990623080332.00b39730@localhost> References: <99062307185100.00965@a11.idiotswitch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:06 23-06-1999 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >FreeBSD's PR is known to be very broken indeed. This subject has been >beaten to death on the lists. Unless some folks see the light or >radical action is taken, FreeBSD will be doomed to poor support due >to inadequate evangelism and poor PR. Just out of curiosity, Brett: Do you have some kind of a macro for this? Adam --- Gracula v3.0 just released. Don't miss it. Visit Count Gracula's Gallery: http://www.whizkidtech.net/gcl/gallery/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 12: 4: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEF414C1A for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:04:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05069; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:03:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990623130308.00a0e680@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:03:49 -0600 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990623133706.00981e70@mail.bfm.org> References: <4.2.0.56.19990623080332.00b39730@localhost> <99062307185100.00965@a11.idiotswitch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:37 PM 6/23/99 -0500, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: >Just out of curiosity, Brett: Do you have some kind of a macro for this? Do you have some kind of a macro for rudeness? --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 12:55:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF52F1560F for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:55:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vanderh@ecf.toronto.edu) Received: from ppp18341.on.bellglobal.com (ppp18378.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.130.58]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08091; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by ppp18341.on.bellglobal.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA54526; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:55:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:55:33 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Mike Avery Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? Message-ID: <19990623155533.B54446@ppp18341.on.bellglobal.com> References: <199906231621.LAA26271@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199906231621.LAA26271@hostigos.otherwhen.com>; from Mike Avery on Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 11:16:28AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 11:16:28AM -0500, Mike Avery wrote: > > Labelling Brett's comments SPAM, and silencing Brett will remove his > voice.... but doing that will have no effect on the reality of whether Just so DES doesn't have to point this out himself, he was joking about censoring anyone from -chat as being a spammer... Of course, it _was_ a polite request for subscribers not to go on the particular tangent that they are currently following. Hehe. Remarkably polite, all things considered. :) -- This is my .signature which gets appended to the end of my messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 13:15:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from idiotswitch.org (cr575310-a.shprd1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.185.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D8CBE14C1B for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:15:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dark@idiotswitch.org) Received: (qmail 377 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 16:14:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO a11.idiotswitch.org) (10.0.0.11) by 10.0.0.1 with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 16:14:47 -0000 From: Rod Taylor To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:15:36 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99062316173400.00288@a11.idiotswitch.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Jamie Bowden wrote: > Oh fuck. Can we please skip the flamewar this time? > Pllllleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaassssssseeeee?????? > > While I happen to agree that FreeBSD could use more and better press, I > don't really care to see the various factions fight out how to go about it > again. Sorry.. Just one comment... Has anyone asked the Yahoo crew if they'd add a small "Run By FreeBSD" pic to their main page? (With an appropriate link). I know they've done a few small press-releases about why they use it, etc. (I believe one was on daemon news). I'd do it myself, but don't feel myself to be the appropriate person. -- Rod Taylor To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 14:25:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from python.shoal.net.au (python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A31EB14DE6 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:25:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@python.shoal.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA14657; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:24:50 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:24:50 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry Reply-To: Andrew Perry To: Brett Taylor Cc: Kelly Yancey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Team FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org G'day On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Brett Taylor wrote: > > How soon we will break rc5-64? Using the most pessimistic view, another > 15.3 years. (at roughly the current rate) actually the rate at which we are moving through the blocks in increasing. Although we have been going for 608 days, at our current rate it would have taken us 265 days to do the same. Assuming our rate doesn't actually decrease (or increase) it will take us about 6.8 years to check the remaining keyspace. > Tangible timeframe ... long. The point of the rc5 contests was to show > that the encryption methods being used/limited by the US government were > insufficient. That's certainly been true w/ the DES stuff, but rc5-64 has > been going for 1.7 years and they haven't even gotten through 10% of the > keyspace with the equivalent of some hundreds of thousands of P100's (I > think that's what they said somewhere - can't find the reference). It > seems to me that rc5-64 is pretty good. :-) it does seem that way sometimes. 42,590 participants active yesterday, 370 of them were brand new, although I know that most participants run more than one computer, I have about 20 running the client. However if our rate of checking blocks keeps increasing due to more participants and faster computers it may be a different story. http://rc5stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/ > > In any case, my science background makes me far more interested in doing a > more "traditional" science experiment than cracking encrypted messages > where I can work for years and maybe never do anything but pump out keys. > In SETI, I might not find aliens, but I might find something else of > scientific interest. I was going to try this but am reluctant to swap over half way. To me it is a little like changing aisles at the supermarket. Just as I change lines the one I was in speeds up and the one I moved to slows down. just my .02 Andrew Perry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 14:35:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC4C214C4F for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:35:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zen@buddhist.com) Received: from WhizKid (r9.bfm.org [208.18.213.105]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id RAA12618; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:34:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990623163535.009abce0@mail.bfm.org> X-Sender: stanislav@mail.bfm.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:35:35 -0500 To: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990623130308.00a0e680@localhost> References: <3.0.6.32.19990623133706.00981e70@mail.bfm.org> <4.2.0.56.19990623080332.00b39730@localhost> <99062307185100.00965@a11.idiotswitch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 13:03 23-06-1999 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >At 01:37 PM 6/23/99 -0500, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > > >Just out of curiosity, Brett: Do you have some kind of a macro for this? > >Do you have some kind of a macro for rudeness? > >--Brett Glass Brett, I have discussed things with you many times in the past few months. Sometimes I agreed with you (generally on the issues of GPL), other times I disagreed (such as with your ideas about PR). I always treated you with respect, while others were telling me I was wasting my time on you. I was NEVER rude to you. However, I am concerned that you keep repeating the exact same ideas in the exact same words after having clearly seen that you are not convincing anyone. Hence my question. I believe your discusion would be more effective and more persuasive if you tried different arguments or different angles of the same argument. As for your snapping at me like that, you have just reminded me of the words of, I believe, St. Theresa of Avilla to the Pope of her era: "If this is how you treat your friends, no wonder you have so many enemies." Adam --- Gracula v3.0 just released. Don't miss it. Visit Count Gracula's Gallery: http://www.whizkidtech.net/gcl/gallery/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 14:50:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co [168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6A11503A for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:50:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem14.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.44]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07962; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:51:06 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <37715612.1D2D7350@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:48:02 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? References: <3.0.6.32.19990623133706.00981e70@mail.bfm.org> <4.2.0.56.19990623080332.00b39730@localhost> <99062307185100.00965@a11.idiotswitch.org> <3.0.6.32.19990623163535.009abce0@mail.bfm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > ... > > I believe your discusion would be more effective and more persuasive if you > tried different arguments or different angles of the same argument. > Yes Brett, tell them you are Colombian...it works for me ;-). Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 15:42:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7398314EC0 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:42:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA37614; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:31:42 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:31:41 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nik Clayton , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con Message-ID: <19990623223141.A37502@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990621230521.A79159@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <14493.930021687@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <14493.930021687@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 08:21:27PM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 08:21:27PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Is it too early to start planning meetings and gatherings around the > > FreeBSD Con ()? > > Never too early! :) > decent set of stables (Grizzly Peak stables) for those who enjoy > equestrian activities; it's been far too long since I myself rode the > various trails up there and may rent a horse myself if there's any > general interest. Yes, definitely. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 17: 9:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp (rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp [133.34.17.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E84B14F30 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:09:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tanimura@naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp) Received: from rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp (8.9.1a/3.7W-Naklab-2.1-19981120) with ESMTP id JAA63896; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:09:39 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199906240009.JAA63896@rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: Seigo Tanimura Subject: Another GPL vs BSD From: Seigo Tanimura X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on Emacs 19.34.1 / Mule 2.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:09:39 +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://slashdot.org/articles/99/06/23/1313224.shtml Seigo Tanimura To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 22: 9:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from arutam.inch.com (ns.inch.com [207.240.140.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62C5315238 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:09:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freyes@inch.com) Received: from your-name (TC1-dial-38-215.oldslip.inch.com [207.240.215.38]) by arutam.inch.com (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA23161 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906240509.BAA23161@arutam.inch.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:10:38 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: When should vendors be removed from Gallery? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The vendor where I used to buy my systems has taken a Linux advocacy mode. They even added "Linux solutions" to their name and removed the "Powered by FreeBSD logo" off their site even though they are still using a FreeBSD box to host their site. Is this enough reason to remove them off the Gallery of vendors? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 23:11:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9E1814CA8 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:11:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip28.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.28]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ED7A37079; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA37452; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:11:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:11:36 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Francisco Reyes Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: When should vendors be removed from Gallery? Message-ID: <19990624011136.A37029@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <199906240509.BAA23161@arutam.inch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <199906240509.BAA23161@arutam.inch.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 01:10:38AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 24, 1999, Francisco Reyes wrote: > The vendor where I used to buy my systems has taken a Linux advocacy > mode. > > They even added "Linux solutions" to their name and removed the > "Powered by FreeBSD logo" off their site even though they are still > using a FreeBSD box to host their site. > > Is this enough reason to remove them off the Gallery of vendors? Just out of curiousity, what's the URL to that site? -- Chris Costello Performance is easier to add than clarity. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 23 23:40:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF4D14CA8 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:40:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09894; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:40:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990624003322.00bd5c50@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:35:47 -0600 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990623163535.009abce0@mail.bfm.org> References: <4.2.0.56.19990623130308.00a0e680@localhost> <3.0.6.32.19990623133706.00981e70@mail.bfm.org> <4.2.0.56.19990623080332.00b39730@localhost> <99062307185100.00965@a11.idiotswitch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:35 PM 6/23/99 -0500, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: >However, I am concerned that you keep repeating the exact same ideas If you think this, then you have not been listening. >I believe your discusion would be more effective and more persuasive if you >tried different arguments or different angles of the same argument. I wasn't "arguing;" I was responding in the affirmative to a query. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 0:19:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E30E14D08; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:19:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:22:34 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179696@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Brett Glass' , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , jmb@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:16:39 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Glass [SMTP:brett@lariat.org] > Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 4:42 PM > To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav; jmb@FreeBSD.ORG > Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? >=20 > Perhaps your desire to quash my views (and there are many > who agree with me) reflects some deep-rooted insecurity about the > issue on your part. >=20 [ML] Oh, Brett, please, leave Dr. Freud out of it. Most of the time I do agree with you, but please, leave him out nevertheless. It's enough that I see the Rotenturmstra=DFe out of my window every day. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 0:23:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9732214CEB for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:22:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:22:00 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Ladavac Marino" , "'Brett Glass'" Cc: Subject: RE: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:22:00 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bebe12$3fb07410$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179696@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You're just saying that because you're mad your mommy cut off your penis. DS > [ML] Oh, Brett, please, leave Dr. Freud out of it. Most of the > time I do agree with you, but please, leave him out nevertheless. It's > enough that I see the Rotenturmstraße out of my window every day. > > /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 0:34:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C2B14A13 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:30:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA22685; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:54:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199906240754.RAA22685@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <000001bebe12$3fb07410$021d85d1@youwant.to> from David Schwartz at "Jun 24, 1999 0:22: 0 am" To: davids@webmaster.com (David Schwartz) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:54:02 +1000 (EST) Cc: mladavac@metropolitan.at, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Schwartz wrote: > > You're just saying that because you're mad your mommy cut off your penis. Do we really have to listen to this crap?! -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 0:36:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (unknown [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 302B614E5D for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:36:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.41]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990624073849.NZGI688839.mta2-rme@wocker>; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:38:49 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Nik Clayton Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:36:04 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com In-reply-to: <19990623223141.A37502@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <14493.930021687@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 08:21:27PM -0700 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990624073849.NZGI688839.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > decent set of stables (Grizzly Peak stables) for those who enjoy > > equestrian activities; it's been far too long since I myself rode the > > various trails up there and may rent a horse myself if there's any > > general interest. Well, apart from that type of riding, I can't be the only mountain biking person headed to the con. And I will be bringing my bike. Not that there's any decent mountain biking in CA. -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 0:37:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from argus.tfs.net (host1-121.birch.net [216.212.1.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEEDF14E5D for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:37:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) id CAA54069; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:36:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199906240736.CAA54069@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Real men use emacs (was ispell(1) is for WIMPs (was Re: vi(1) is for whimps)) In-Reply-To: from "Brian F. Feldman" at "Jun 23, 99 11:27:37 pm" To: green@unixhelp.org (Brian F. Feldman) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:36:39 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #31: Thu Apr 8 10:40:17 CDT 1999 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply: > This belongs in freebsd-chat, if anywhere. > > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ > green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ > FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | > http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ I had to get my 2 cents in :^) to -chat.... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 0:40:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 73E7E14E92 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:40:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 22385 invoked by uid 1001); 24 Jun 1999 07:40:22 -0000 Date: 24 Jun 1999 00:40:22 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:40:22 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: Dan Langille Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Aaron Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con Message-ID: <19990624004022.A22283@dub.net> References: <14493.930021687@zippy.cdrom.com>; <19990623223141.A37502@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <19990624073849.NZGI688839.mta2-rme@wocker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990624073849.NZGI688839.mta2-rme@wocker>; from Dan Langille on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 07:36:04PM +1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 07:36:04PM +1200, Dan Langille wrote: > > > decent set of stables (Grizzly Peak stables) for those who enjoy > > > equestrian activities; it's been far too long since I myself rode the > > > various trails up there and may rent a horse myself if there's any > > > general interest. > > Well, apart from that type of riding, I can't be the only mountain biking > person headed to the con. And I will be bringing my bike. Not that > there's any decent mountain biking in CA. Boy. That sounds like a challenge to me :) Aaron? You up for showing this New Zealander the ropes of Bay Area mtn biking? :) -Bill > -- > Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited > The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ > NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ > The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm -- -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 0:58:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7502C14C80 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA43905; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:58:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Tim Vanderhoek Cc: Mike Avery , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? References: <199906231621.LAA26271@hostigos.otherwhen.com> <19990623155533.B54446@ppp18341.on.bellglobal.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 24 Jun 1999 09:58:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: Tim Vanderhoek's message of "Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:55:33 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 37 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tim Vanderhoek writes: > On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 11:16:28AM -0500, Mike Avery wrote: > > Labelling Brett's comments SPAM, and silencing Brett will remove his > > voice.... but doing that will have no effect on the reality of whether > Just so DES doesn't have to point this out himself, he was joking > about censoring anyone from -chat as being a spammer... I was not joking. I haven't seen Brett write anything productive in a long time. All he does is come in here, insult Jordan, accuse everyone of incompetence, talk about what he'd do if he had time and money (without ever making any concrete suggestions), complain that he has neither time nor money when challenged to put his money where his mouth is, start a flame war, then go off in a huff swearing to the gods that he'll never, ever post anything on a FreeBSD mailing list again even if we come begging on our knees. Then come back two weeks later and repeat his spiel with little or no variation. He's wasting everybody's time, dropping -chat's SNR to the floor, and ruining what used to be a convivial forum where FreeBSD developers and users exchanged banter and jokes and made dinner appointments - and the only reason he posts *here* and not on -advocacy (which is where, if anywhere, his rants belong) is that -advocacy hates his guts. -Chat being as near charterless as makes no difference, he feels safe here. There's no other word for what he does than spam. I added him to my killfile earlier this morning; hopefully I'll have some peace now. > Of course, it _was_ a polite request for subscribers not to go on the > particular tangent that they are currently following. Hehe. Remarkably > polite, all things considered. :) The only reason I'm polite is Jordan threatened to take me off the list if I didn't watch my mouth (well, my fingers) after I told Brett to **** off. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 1: 1: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB65914F7D for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:00:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA43970; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:00:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? References: Brett Glass's message of "Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:06:00 -0600" <199906231621.LAA26271@hostigos.otherwhen.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 24 Jun 1999 10:00:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Mike Avery"'s message of "Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:16:28 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Mike Avery" writes: > Labelling Brett's comments SPAM, and silencing Brett will remove his > voice.... but doing that will have no effect on the reality of whether > or not the emperor is wearing clothes. And sooner or later winter > will arrive, and if the emperor is truly naked, he'll freeze his nuts > off. Yo! Guys! Brett doesn't have any *clothes* on! He's gonna freeze his nuts off! Sorry, but if you start throwing clichés around, be prepared to have them thrown back at you. Brett is the one walking around naked, ranting about how much better he is than Jordan, when Jordan's the one actually getting things done around here while Brett runs around in his birthday suit screaming bloody murder and asking for Jordan to be deposed. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 1:14:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA1314BCC for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:14:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:14:02 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: Subject: RE: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:14:02 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bebe19$84bbe9c0$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199906240754.RAA22685@cimlogic.com.au> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does John not get the joke or was that not funny? I'm starting to doubt myself. DS >> [ML] Oh, Brett, please, leave Dr. Freud out of it. Most of the >>time I do agree with you, but please, leave him out nevertheless. It's >>enough that I see the Rotenturmstraße out of my window every day. >> > David Schwartz wrote: > > > > You're just saying that because you're mad your mommy cut > off your penis. > > Do we really have to listen to this crap?! > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 2: 4:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bambam.swlink.net (bambam.swlink.net [204.252.163.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE18156A6 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unyun@netzero.net) Received: from default (ip-206.swlink.net [204.252.163.206]) by bambam.swlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA15967 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:41:17 -0700 Message-ID: <010a01bebe21$81cf5780$cea3fccc@default> From: "Jeremy" To: Subject: unsubscribe freebsd-chat Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:11:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org unsubscribe freebsd-chat jeremy@lwwoc.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 2:39:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bambam.swlink.net (bambam.swlink.net [204.252.163.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 443DB14F16 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:39:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unyun@netzero.net) Received: from default (ip-206.swlink.net [204.252.163.206]) by bambam.swlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA16666; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:15:57 -0700 Message-ID: <014201bebe26$59f648e0$cea3fccc@default> From: "Jeremy" To: "Jeremy" , References: <010a01bebe21$81cf5780$cea3fccc@default> Subject: Re: unsubscribe freebsd-chat Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:45:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org sorry, that was stupid... i'm too tired. and now I'm sending this one apologizing, and cluttering up the list even more... oops, sorry again. <|-] ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremy To: Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 2:11 AM Subject: unsubscribe freebsd-chat > unsubscribe freebsd-chat jeremy@lwwoc.org > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 2:56: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809E114E6E for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:56:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id CAA06671; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:55:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:55:48 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Pat Lynch Cc: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Restaurants : was FreeBSD Con Message-ID: <19990624025548.C97556@001101.zer0.org> References: <19990621234943.I73528@001101.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Lynch on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 09:13:26AM -0400 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 09:13:26AM -0400, Pat Lynch wrote: > Yes, when I was out there a few years ago working for Poppe Tyson for a > week, I stayed at the Hyatt Rickeys in Palo Alto...there was an indian > restaurant down the street...(a ways walking I don;t remember how far > though) but the Indian was great, the Vindaloo was HOT HOT HOT (although > now I could take much worse....). COuld this be the one? No, that couldn't have been it, because it's more than just a walk from anywhere in Palo Alto. There are many good Indian places in the area. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Was Jimi's modem a Purple Hayes? mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 11:45:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sand.global.net.uk (sand.global.net.uk [194.126.82.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0600414DB6 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@globalnet.co.uk) Received: from p70s02a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.226.113] helo=marder-1.) by sand.global.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10xEUw-0000nj-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:45:18 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id TAA00355 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:41:47 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:41:46 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: The making of The Matrix on TV Message-ID: <19990624194146.B267@marder-1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If anyone in the UK is interested I've just noticed in TV Times that at midnight tonight (Thurs) there is a program on ITV called "The making of The Matrix". I guess that this has already appeared on US TV. Anyone know if we get to see the FreeBSD computers doing their stuff? -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:markov@globalnet.co.uk http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 14: 7:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DC7C14C10 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:07:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17081; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:07:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch To: Brett Glass Cc: Rod Taylor , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990623080332.00b39730@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hrrrm I suppose you weren't at USENIX Brett.... the *BSD's made quit a showing, with FreeBSD being the top out of the three, the year before, there were half as many people, we *are* growing, and we're getting technical, knowledgeable people. not lamers who want to know where dir and copy went ;) Theres alot of PR work done at the grassroots level, and considering the maliciousness you hold towards linux, and thier supporters in general, I'm wondering if you *really* want the linux type of PR. At several Open Source events lately, FreeBSD has gotten almost as much recognition as linux (at a forum at the Institute for Technology and Enterprise, in NYC, at USENIX, etc.) I don;t think its as broken as you want to think it is. And personally I wouldn't buy from a store who told me "such and such doesn't have any media hype surrounding it" (to paraphrase) I know one thing, the general consensus of people I talked to at USENIX were glad that there were no screaming , drooling, rabid FreeBSD fans. and I think would prefer to keep it that way. -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > FreeBSD's PR is known to be very broken indeed. This subject has been > beaten to death on the lists. Unless some folks see the light or > radical action is taken, FreeBSD will be doomed to poor support due > to inadequate evangelism and poor PR. > > --Brett Glass > > At 07:12 AM 6/23/99 +0000, Rod Taylor wrote: > >On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Quinlan wrote: > > > > > > > Again yet another high profile company jumping in to bed with Linux. > > > > I think FBSD needs a bit of PR work? > > > > > > Okay, so what are you doing about it, or is this a SEP? > > > > > > >I tried once to convince a small local computer store who had decided to do > >pre-installs of RedHat linux to do a few other linux distributions as well as > >atleast 1 bsd distribution. I was ready to buy a couple of computers if they > >did FreeBSD. > > > >Their responce, was basically "They're not in the news much, so they can't be > >very good products. We want to sell the best to our customers". Aside from > >hte fact that their pc speakers are help in with hot glue... They stick to > >that principle. > > > >Solution? Make sure when people do big things with FreeBSD, they do atleast a > >minor press release. None of this Matrix stuff where they really don't want to > >do one. Somehow we gotta make BSD a buzzword. > > > >By doing that however, we know that a bunch of lamers who don't know anything > >and spend all their time in IRC asking where dir and copy went (aliased in > >redhat) will begin to appear more frequently. Can't ban them all.... > > > >-- > > > >Rod Taylor > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 14:12: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DDA4152B2; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:12:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17125; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:11:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch To: Brett Glass Cc: Jamie Bowden , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990623093808.044e5a50@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wow, while I happen to disagree with most of the stuff I hear from you, this is actually a good idea! It was actually what I edited out of my prior post. It went somewhere along the lines of : "Theres nothing stopping you from forming a company with a stake in FreeBSD and publicizing that fact, like Redhat or VA Linux." Its something I personally am interested in if I had more capital to invest. So theres nothing stopping someone else from doing it. While I don;t like the rabid screaming fanatic idea, this one I think has gotten linux more publicity than anything else, including the rabid , drooling Linus fans that were next door to Kirk McKusick's BoF on the Thursday of the USENIX conference. -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:27 AM 6/23/99 -0400, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > >Oh fuck. Can we please skip the flamewar this time? > >Pllllleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaassssssseeeee?????? > > I agree, actually. > > >While I happen to agree that FreeBSD could use more and better press, I > >don't really care to see the various factions fight out how to go about it > >again. > > Fighting is useless. I am looking for investors who might be willing > to fund something more productive than that. > > --Brett Glass > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 15: 1:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B59C14EAD for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:01:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18580; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:01:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd018549; Thu Jun 24 15:01:13 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA16267; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:01:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199906242201.PAA16267@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? To: zen@buddhist.com (G. Adam Stanislav) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:01:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990623163535.009abce0@mail.bfm.org> from "G. Adam Stanislav" at Jun 23, 99 04:35:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ ... Response to Brett Glass ... ] > However, I am concerned that you keep repeating the exact same ideas in the > exact same words after having clearly seen that you are not convincing > anyone. Hence my question. > > I believe your discusion would be more effective and more persuasive if you > tried different arguments or different angles of the same argument. Actually, this is exactly how efective advertising works. Perhaps he's trying for ubiquity for his ideas, as a means of getting them adopted. If it workds for McDonalds and Coca Cola... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 15:36:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61BE01520B for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:36:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id PAA22464; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:35:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:35:51 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Terry Lambert Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? Message-ID: <19990624153551.H97556@001101.zer0.org> References: <3.0.6.32.19990623163535.009abce0@mail.bfm.org> <199906242201.PAA16267@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906242201.PAA16267@usr01.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:01:07PM +0000 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:01:07PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > [ ... Response to Brett Glass ... ] > > > However, I am concerned that you keep repeating the exact same ideas in the > > exact same words after having clearly seen that you are not convincing > > anyone. Hence my question. > > > > I believe your discusion would be more effective and more persuasive if you > > tried different arguments or different angles of the same argument. > > Actually, this is exactly how efective advertising works. Perhaps > he's trying for ubiquity for his ideas, as a means of getting them > adopted. If it workds for McDonalds and Coca Cola... Hmmm, last I heard, we didn't encourage advertising in the FreeBSD lists. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 16:38: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost2.inspire.net.nz [203.96.157.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 93864154E8 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:37:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: (qmail 10169 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 23:37:56 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.outpost.co.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by queasy.outpost.co.nz with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 23:37:56 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:37:35 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: FreeBSDCon Reply-To: crh@outpost.co.nz X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-Id: <19990624233800.93864154E8@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It's a genuine pity I won't be able to make FreeBSDCon 99 - I've always wanted to learn how to build an intergrated sever product. -- C. -- Craig Harding crh@outpost.co.nz "I don't know about God, I Outpost Digital Media Ltd crh@inspire.net.nz just think we're handmade" http://www.outpost.co.nz ICQ# 26701833 - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 16:49: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D5647.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.49.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D451514D50 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:49:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA46404; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:49:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:49:56 +0000 (GMT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: Rod Taylor Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <99062307185100.00965@a11.idiotswitch.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Rod Taylor wrote: | By doing that however, we know that a bunch of lamers who don't know anything | and spend all their time in IRC asking where dir and copy went (aliased in | redhat) will begin to appear more frequently. Can't ban them all.... I've seen vi and ed linked to vim on red hat..but I hope that was just that one particular system, and that they're aren't configured that way out of the box.. Cliff Crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ -><- i l i k e o a t m e a l )O( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 23:11:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (unknown [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC67114BD5 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:10:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id IAA22691; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:09:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id IAA72205; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:19:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990625081905.20291@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:19:05 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Terry Lambert Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? References: <3.0.6.32.19990623163535.009abce0@mail.bfm.org> <199906242201.PAA16267@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199906242201.PAA16267@usr01.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:01:07PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > > Actually, this is exactly how efective advertising works. Perhaps > he's trying for ubiquity for his ideas, as a means of getting them > adopted. If it workds for McDonalds and Coca Cola... Oh, good! Do we get their reputation, also ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 24 23:12:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (unknown [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C7B14A2E for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:11:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id IAA22766; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:10:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id IAA72219; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:20:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990625082035.44334@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:20:35 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Pat Lynch Cc: Brett Glass , Rod Taylor , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? References: <4.2.0.56.19990623080332.00b39730@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Lynch on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 05:07:04PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pat Lynch writes: > Hrrrm I suppose you weren't at USENIX Brett.... > the *BSD's made quit a showing, with FreeBSD being the top out of the > three, the year before, there were half as many people, we *are* growing, 1/2 the tech. papers presented in the Freenix track were FreeBSD/BSD. It could be that the Linux folk now have their Linux Showcase, and do not deem USENIX worthy of their cause ;) Anyway, BSD is alive and kicking. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 25 3:42:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.tellique.de (big-gw.tellique.de [195.126.133.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B1A14C03 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ni@tellique.de) Received: from tellique.de (nolde.tellique.de [62.144.106.52]) by mail.tellique.de (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17392; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:42:40 +0200 Message-ID: <37735D20.1E2B855E@tellique.de> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:42:40 +0200 From: Juergen Nickelsen Organization: Tellique Kommunikationstechnik GmbH, Germany X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Cc: Rod Taylor , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Cliff Crawford wrote: > I've seen vi and ed linked to vim on red hat..but I hope that was just > that one particular system, and that they're aren't configured that > way out of the box.. On RedHat 5.2 /bin/vi is a vim, but ed is different (and way smaller). -- Juergen Nickelsen Tellique Kommunikationstechnik GmbH Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25, 13355 Berlin, Germany Tel. +49 30 46307-552 / Fax +49 30 46307-579 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 25 7:46:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F2EE154BE for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:46:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:49:10 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C11002761796A6@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: "'lnb@cybertouch.org'" , "'chat@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: trying to figure out what to delete in /usr Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:43:21 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Lanny Baron [SMTP:lnb@cybertouch.org] > Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 4:32 PM > To: questions@freebsd.org > Subject: trying to figure out what to delete in /usr > > Hi, [ML] Hi. I assume this is a troll. Hence followups to -chat. In the case this were a genuine question, please skip to the end, there is some actually useful advisory information. > Would someone please tell me what I can delete in /usr. [ML] You can delete anything you want. You can reformat the whole disk, and put an axe to it. You can do whatever you wish, it is your machine--just don't do anything illegal, please. > I realize > that is a strange question because you don't what I am running. > However I don't think I need all that is there. Here is my /usr dir: > > freedom# ls > X11R6 compat include libdata local ports share sup var > bin games lib libexec mdec sbin src tmp [ML] Odd. This looks just like my /usr. > More importantly, how does one know or decide what he/she > needs in /usr? [ML] The same way one decides what he/she needs in life. If you don't know what it does, but it does not seem out of place, leave it alone. Only if you know what it does, and you know that you don't need it may you remove it. > Thanks for your help, [ML] How can we honestly help you if you don't tell us what you want to do? You have just sent a null-info question, and you expect meaningful answers? There are things in /usr and below you may not need, but how are we to tell? [ML] /Marino > Lanny > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 25 9:37:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654DB15477 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:37:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24333; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:37:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd024308; Fri Jun 25 09:37:18 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA25085; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:37:18 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199906251637.JAA25085@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? To: gsutter@pobox.com (Gregory Sutter) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:37:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, zen@buddhist.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990624153551.H97556@001101.zer0.org> from "Gregory Sutter" at Jun 24, 99 03:35:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Actually, this is exactly how efective advertising works. Perhaps > > he's trying for ubiquity for his ideas, as a means of getting them > > adopted. If it workds for McDonalds and Coca Cola... > > Hmmm, last I heard, we didn't encourage advertising in the FreeBSD lists. You mean advertising of ideas, like "unpopular ideas should be considered the same as unwanted stock solicitations", e.g. the above statement from you? 8-|. It's easy to say you don't want to see anything except what you want to see; it's practically impossible to implement. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 25 9:40: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7B015673 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:40:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25436; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:39:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd025381; Fri Jun 25 09:39:51 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA25194; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:39:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199906251639.JAA25194@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? To: regnauld@ftf.net (Phil Regnauld) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:39:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, zen@buddhist.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990625081905.20291@ns.int.ftf.net> from "Phil Regnauld" at Jun 25, 99 08:19:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Actually, this is exactly how efective advertising works. Perhaps > > he's trying for ubiquity for his ideas, as a means of getting them > > adopted. If it workds for McDonalds and Coca Cola... > > Oh, good! > > Do we get their reputation, also ? Mult-ibillion-dollar corporations who are willing to go out of their way to avoid alienating the majority of people because that's how they ensure that they will be around in the future? I hope so... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 25 14:39:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC98C152AB for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:39:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id XAA08292; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:40:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id XAA75200; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:50:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990625235045.49711@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:50:45 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Terry Lambert Cc: zen@buddhist.com, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR broken? was Re: Linux not FreeBSD? References: <19990625081905.20291@ns.int.ftf.net> <199906251639.JAA25194@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199906251639.JAA25194@usr01.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 04:39:48PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > > > > Do we get their reputation, also ? > > Mult-ibillion-dollar corporations who are willing to go out of their > way to avoid alienating the majority of people because that's how > they ensure that they will be around in the future? > > I hope so... It's called pleasing the masses -- not quite the FreeBSD approach. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 25 21: 8:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from arutam.inch.com (ns.inch.com [207.240.140.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A6AA14D71 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:08:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freyes@inch.com) Received: from your-name (TC2-dial-79-215.oldslip.inch.com [207.240.215.79]) by arutam.inch.com (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA10300 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906260408.AAA10300@arutam.inch.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:09:13 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Of SDSL, speed and bad ISPs Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org After almost 3 months, about 2 longer than expected, I finally got a working SDSL line. Getting it installed involved a lot of calling the ISP and just constantly finding a person higher up in the food chain to call. This line is at one of my clients and he basically ended up talking to some pretty high up people and this was the only way we got the dam thing installed. It is scary that with all the pushing it took us almost 3 months. Don't want to think how long it takes if one doesn't call daily. We did waited a little over a month before we started calling daily. Originally they promissed in 2 to 3 weeks. It is a 200K line, however did a couple of simple downloads and was only getting 4K to 6K downloading. I had to leave shortly after having got the line up, but plan to do further testing soon. What kind of thoughtput should I see in a 200K line? And for those in the NorthEast... Avoid using Verio as an ISP.. not only it took them a long time to get things done, but they totally ignored our calls and we had to call their main office (in the west coast I believe) to get things done.... and in the end it turned out that the installation was done by another company (northpoint) which makes me think Verio may be just a reseller... At least in this area. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 26 17:21:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E80EE14DAF; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:21:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-14-245.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.14.245]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA30283; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:21:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA40987; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:21:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199906270021.TAA40987@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE Feedback In-reply-to: Message from Randall Hopper of "Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:43:11 EDT." <19990626184311.A5290@ipass.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:21:08 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Randall Hopper writes: > > Generally good results, except for the reboot I just posted about... > Here are a few problems I had and general comments. This past week I put together a new system. Asus P2B-S MB (with SCSI), 128MB PC100 ECC, P-II 400. Two IBM DDRS 9G SCSI HD's. No IDE drives other than an IDE ZIP (not detected by NT or FreeBSD, its on the 2nd IDE bus, as a slave, with no master. Really need to fix that.) My NT 4.0 SP1 CDROM didn't recognize the SCSI, not too suprised. Then fed it the Asus/Adaptec driver disk. Installed drivers. Still didn't find any HD's. Noticed the driver disk was version 3.01 while 3.02 was at the Asus site. That didn't do any different. However, the 3.2-RELEASE CDROM booted (via ATAPI CDROM) and was perfectly happy to install. Let it do "make buildworlds" most all day Friday. About 70 minutes per iteration, about 10 minutes to "rm -rf /usr/obj/*; chflags -R noschg /usr/obj; rm -rf /usr/obj/*" I find it faster to do it in the above order with the extra rm in front. This way the chflags operation only has to walk the tree thru the files that need chflag'ing. Wrote a "compatible" partition table to the disks in sysinstall hoping that would be the thing for NT to find the drives. Nope. Its time to bother Asus and the MB vendor. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 26 20:41:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from math.berkeley.edu (math.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.183.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4E814CF0 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:41:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@math.berkeley.edu) Received: (from dan@localhost) by math.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11156; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:41:18 -0700 (PDT) From: dan@math.berkeley.edu (Dan Strick) Message-Id: <199906270341.UAA11156@math.berkeley.edu> To: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: FreeBSD Con Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Is it too early to start planning meetings and gatherings around the > FreeBSD Con ()? > > I'm planning on being in the area from the 16th until the 24th of October. > Any FreeBSD users in the area fancy meeting up for dinner, sight-seeing, > and so on? > > Any recommendations for things to do over there, or places to avoid? The San Francisco Bay Area is a sightseer's paradise. You have to decide for yourself what kind of sights you want to see. Would you like to take a cable car to fisherman's warf? Visit Alcatraz island? Take a glass walled elevator to the top of a tall building? Check out a tattoo museum? Go to Muir woods or to the top of Twin Peaks or Mt. Tamalpais and look down on the city and the bay? Go for a walk along the east bay ridge? I recommend against actually getting a tattoo, unless is says "Powered by FreeBSD". Dan Strick dan@math.berkeley.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 26 21:15:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (alecto.physics.uiuc.edu [130.126.8.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9284E14C0D; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:15:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu) Received: (from igor@localhost) by alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id XAA27664; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:15:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Igor Roshchin Message-Id: <199906270415.XAA27664@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE Feedback In-Reply-To: <199906270021.TAA40987@nospam.hiwaay.net> from "David Kelly" at "Jun 26, 1999 7:21: 8 pm" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net (David Kelly) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:15:29 -0500 (CDT) Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Randall Hopper writes: > > > > Generally good results, except for the reboot I just posted about... > > Here are a few problems I had and general comments. > > This past week I put together a new system. Asus P2B-S MB (with SCSI), > 128MB PC100 ECC, P-II 400. Two IBM DDRS 9G SCSI HD's. No IDE drives > other than an IDE ZIP (not detected by NT or FreeBSD, its on the 2nd IDE > bus, as a slave, with no master. Really need to fix that.) > > My NT 4.0 SP1 CDROM didn't recognize the SCSI, not too suprised. Then > fed it the Asus/Adaptec driver disk. Installed drivers. Still didn't > find any HD's. Noticed the driver disk was version 3.01 while 3.02 was > at the Asus site. That didn't do any different. > > However, the 3.2-RELEASE CDROM booted (via ATAPI CDROM) and was > perfectly happy to install. Let it do "make buildworlds" most all day > Friday. About 70 minutes per iteration, about 10 minutes to > "rm -rf /usr/obj/*; chflags -R noschg /usr/obj; rm -rf /usr/obj/*" > I find it faster to do it in the above order with the extra rm in > front. This way the chflags operation only has to walk the tree thru > the files that need chflag'ing. > > Wrote a "compatible" partition table to the disks in sysinstall hoping > that would be the thing for NT to find the drives. Nope. > > Its time to bother Asus and the MB vendor. > > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net > ===================================================================== > The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its > capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. > > Regarding SCSI drives recognition in NT with that particular ASUS motherboard: Use those 3 NT installation floppy drives instead of the CD, and the floppy drive with the SCSI-U2 driver for that board. The problem is that they've got a different sequence of HD probing and device driver installation on the floppies and on the CD for the case when it get to the devices that aren't supported by the drivers included on the CD. So, use the floppies to boot with, then when it asks - feed the SCSI-U2 driver floppy, and the CD-ROM when it asks for it. If you need further details, feel free to ask me - otherwise it's not in the scope of this list. Cheers! Igor To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 26 21:32:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499F014D00 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:32:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA25042; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:32:06 -0400 (EDT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Of SDSL, speed and bad ISPs In-Reply-To: <199906260408.AAA10300@arutam.inch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Francisco Reyes wrote: > After almost 3 months, about 2 longer than expected, I finally got a > working SDSL line. For New York City, that's pretty good. Of course a nice local ISP like the one you use (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) would have given you a better estimate of how long you would have to wait... > Getting it installed involved a lot of calling the ISP and just > constantly finding a person higher up in the food chain to call. This > line is at one of my clients and he basically ended up talking to some > pretty high up people and this was the only way we got the dam thing > installed. This is because EVERYONE (Verio included) uses either: the local telco Northpoint Covad in NYC. There's RedConnect, but they are a whole other story... > It is scary that with all the pushing it took us almost 3 months. Don't > want to think how long it takes if one doesn't call daily. We did > waited a little over a month before we started calling daily. > Originally they promissed in 2 to 3 weeks. At least they're optimistic ;) > It is a 200K line, however did a couple of simple downloads and was > only getting 4K to 6K downloading. > I had to leave shortly after having got the line up, but plan to do > further testing soon. > > What kind of thoughtput should I see in a 200K line? A 200 kilobit line should give you about 23 KiloBytes (what Netscape and most ftp clients report in) to a well-connected site (taking out a bit of the ATM overhead). > And for those in the NorthEast... Avoid using Verio as an ISP.. not > only it took them a long time to get things done, but they totally > ignored our calls and we had to call their main office (in the west > coast I believe) to get things done.... and in the end it turned out > that the installation was done by another company (northpoint) which > makes me think Verio may be just a reseller... At least in this area. They are a reseller everywhere, but they do have a TV ad campaign. The cost involved in putting DSL in every CO is very high, especially if you want to cover the 5 boroughs of NYC, so there is really only Covad, Northpoint, Bell ATlantic, and Red in the COs. In less populated areas you might see a smaller ISP trying this on their own, but going through a reseller (we use Covad) eliminates the need for us to roll trucks for installs or battle with Bell Atlantic over getting a decent copper pair for a customer. While I've seen some of our SDSL installs go very slowly, Covad is good enough to uptdate the ISP partner and customer on a regular basis. The delays are usually: Covad can't get the copper Bell Atlantic gives them an unusable line Both of these result in a lengthy and painful series of trouble tickets between Bell and Covad. However, all our DSL customers do seem to be happy customers once it works... Charles > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message