From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 23 12:28:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id ED63A14C49; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCCD81CD8B6; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:28:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:28:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: John Baldwin Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Introduction In-Reply-To: <199908230420.AAA11978@sable.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, John Baldwin wrote: > I can also occasionally be found on EFNet under the nick BigKnife. That's not a knife...THIS is a knife! Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 23 15:50:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29BBE14C1F; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:50:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23093; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (h198-82-67-146.dhcp.vt.edu [198.82.67.146]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAB09607; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908231932.PAB09607@sable.cc.vt.edu> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:32:51 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Introduction Cc: chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Aug-99 Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, John Baldwin wrote: > >> I can also occasionally be found on EFNet under the nick BigKnife. > > That's not a knife...THIS is a knife! I earned the nickname my freshmen year in college when I had to carry around a saber with me everywhere for 6 weeks as part of the "tap", or initiation period for an organization that I'm in. > Kris --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 23 16: 0: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scrabble.freeuk.net (scrabble.freeuk.net [212.126.144.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5E2E14F65; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:00:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@ukug.uk.FreeBSD.org) Received: from [212.126.148.41] (helo=cream.org) by scrabble.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 11J33f-0003px-00; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:59:20 +0000 Content-Length: 153 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:55:05 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Boothman To: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Introduction Cc: chat@freebsd.org, John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Aug-99 Kris Kennaway wrote: > That's not a knife...THIS is a knife! No it's not. It's a spoon. Ahhhh, I see you've played Knifey Spoony before! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 24 2:44:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A8614CD1 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 02:44:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.212]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990824094636.NITO2529197.mta1-rme@wocker> for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:46:36 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:42:06 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: XTRA.co.nz finally fixed their DNS Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Message-Id: <19990824094636.NITO2529197.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org After about two weeks of not being able to send mail to freebsd.org because of screwed up DNS at xtra.co.nz, I have finally been able to sent out mail. Sheesh. When I get back from the con, I am seriously going to look at swapping ISPs. This fiasco has been disgusting. The main problem was getting the help desk staff to understand that the problem did not lay with freebsd.org. They refused mulitple requests from me to check their mail logs to verify the cause of the problem. Finally, some kind soul at with access, grabbed this from the freebsd mail logs: Aug 21 17:30:16 hub postfix/smtpd[33041]: reject: EHLO from mda.xtra.co.nz[203.96.92.1]: 450 : Host not found Looks like someone forgot to do their DNS properly. I'm sure that nslint or dnswalk would have found this. Sheesh. It's good to be back. -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 24 4:49:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0E7914C57; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 04:47:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA71865; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:10:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:10:44 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Andrew Boothman Cc: Kris Kennaway , chat@freebsd.org, John Baldwin Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <19990824121044.A71698@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Andrew Boothman on Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 11:55:05PM +0100 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 11:55:05PM +0100, Andrew Boothman wrote: > > On 23-Aug-99 Kris Kennaway wrote: > > That's not a knife...THIS is a knife! > > No it's not. It's a spoon. "Try to realise the truth. There is no spoon." N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 24 5:33: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A76EF150D0 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 05:32:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.0.1) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:29:42 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id RH63GQ3V; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:29:24 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 11JFiH-000IuN-00; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:30:05 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:30:05 +0100 To: Dan Langille Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: XTRA.co.nz finally fixed their DNS Message-ID: <19990824133005.A72652@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> References: <19990824094636.NITO2529197.mta1-rme@wocker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <19990824094636.NITO2529197.mta1-rme@wocker>; from Dan Langille on Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 09:42:06PM +1200 From: Dominic Mitchell Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 09:42:06PM +1200, Dan Langille wrote: > Looks like someone forgot to do their DNS properly. I'm sure that nslint > or dnswalk would have found this. Is there an organisation that promotes death to clubie ISPs? -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator "Finally, when replying to messages only quote the parts of the message your will be discussing or that are relevant. Quoting whole messages and adding two lines at the top is not good etiquette." -- Elias Levy ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 24 10: 5:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 85CFD15903; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76FD31CD8AB; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:05:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:05:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Dominic Mitchell Cc: Dan Langille , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: XTRA.co.nz finally fixed their DNS In-Reply-To: <19990824133005.A72652@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Dominic Mitchell wrote: > On Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 09:42:06PM +1200, Dan Langille wrote: > > Looks like someone forgot to do their DNS properly. I'm sure that nslint > > or dnswalk would have found this. > > Is there an organisation that promotes death to clubie ISPs? Microsoft. Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 24 10:38:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sand5.global.net.uk (sand5.global.net.uk [194.126.80.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 589BE15133; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@globalnet.co.uk) Received: from pf2s11a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.219.243] helo=marder-1.) by sand5.global.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11JKVi-0007LE-00; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:37:27 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id SAA00339; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:30:15 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:30:14 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Andrew Boothman Cc: Kris Kennaway , chat@freebsd.org, John Baldwin Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <19990824183014.A267@marder-1> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Andrew Boothman on Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 11:55:05PM +0100 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 11:55:05PM +0100, Andrew Boothman wrote: > > On 23-Aug-99 Kris Kennaway wrote: > > That's not a knife...THIS is a knife! > > No it's not. It's a spoon. > > Ahhhh, I see you've played Knifey Spoony before! > I think it was a quote from Crocodile Dundee > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- STATE-OF-THE-ART: Any computer you can't afford. OBSOLETE: Any computer you own. ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 24 10:47:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 14F9E14DD2; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05F7E1CD8AC; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:47:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:47:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Mark Ovens Cc: Andrew Boothman , chat@freebsd.org, John Baldwin Subject: Re: Introduction In-Reply-To: <19990824183014.A267@marder-1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: > On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 11:55:05PM +0100, Andrew Boothman wrote: > > > > On 23-Aug-99 Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > That's not a knife...THIS is a knife! > > > > No it's not. It's a spoon. > > > > Ahhhh, I see you've played Knifey Spoony before! > > > > I think it was a quote from Crocodile Dundee Mine was, but Andrew's was from an (fairly ordinary) episode of the simpsons which parodies the quote. From http://www.snpp.com/episodes/2F13.html: The family decide to eat a little at a local pub. [Bart flicks a pocket knife open and closed repeatedly] Man: You call that a knife? _This_ is a knife. Bart: That's not a knife, that's a spoon. Man: All right, all right, you win, heh. I see you've played Knifey-Spooney before. Homer: [to bartender] Hey! Give me one of those famous giant beers I've heard so much about. [bartender puts a huge beer in front of him] Bartender: Something wrong, yank? Homer: No. It's pretty big...I guess. Marge: I'll just have a cup of coffee. Bartender: Beer, it is. Marge: No, I said "coffee". Bartender: "Beer"? Marge: [slowly] Coff-ee. Bartender: Be-er? Marge: C -- O -- Bartender: B -- E -- -- Selective hearing, "Bart vs. Australia" Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 24 10:52:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sand4.global.net.uk (sand4.global.net.uk [194.126.80.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3ECA14D4C; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:52:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@globalnet.co.uk) Received: from pf2s11a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.219.243] helo=marder-1.) by sand4.global.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11JKk5-0003FP-00; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:52:17 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id SAA00407; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:45:06 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:45:05 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Andrew Boothman , chat@freebsd.org, John Baldwin Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <19990824184505.D267@marder-1> References: <19990824183014.A267@marder-1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 10:47:09AM -0700 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 10:47:09AM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 11:55:05PM +0100, Andrew Boothman wrote: > > > > > > On 23-Aug-99 Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > > That's not a knife...THIS is a knife! > > > > > > No it's not. It's a spoon. > > > > > > Ahhhh, I see you've played Knifey Spoony before! > > > > > > > I think it was a quote from Crocodile Dundee > > Mine was, but Andrew's was from an (fairly ordinary) episode of the > simpsons which parodies the quote. > Ah right. I don't watch The Simpsons even though it is a bit of a cult thing over here. I find it, well, complete crap. Guess maybe I'm just too old to appreciate modern humour. > >From http://www.snpp.com/episodes/2F13.html: > > The family decide to eat a little at a local pub. > > [Bart flicks a pocket knife open and closed repeatedly] > Man: You call that a knife? _This_ is a knife. > Bart: That's not a knife, that's a spoon. > Man: All right, all right, you win, heh. I see you've played > Knifey-Spooney before. > Homer: [to bartender] Hey! Give me one of those famous giant beers > I've heard so much about. > [bartender puts a huge beer in front of him] > Bartender: Something wrong, yank? > Homer: No. It's pretty big...I guess. > Marge: I'll just have a cup of coffee. > Bartender: Beer, it is. > Marge: No, I said "coffee". > Bartender: "Beer"? > Marge: [slowly] Coff-ee. > Bartender: Be-er? > Marge: C -- O -- > Bartender: B -- E -- > -- Selective hearing, "Bart vs. Australia" > > Kris > > -- STATE-OF-THE-ART: Any computer you can't afford. OBSOLETE: Any computer you own. ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 24 11:27: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3280614C41 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:26:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-27.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.27] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA09859; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:22:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37C2E2D6.6E4C2F8D@airnet.net> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:22:14 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kris@airnet.net Subject: NASA's latest rover in the works, carrying names on CD. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I normally don't believe in sending mass email all over the place, but I think this one is slightly ok since it's a NASA offer. Have a second of fame. http://spacekids.hq.nasa.gov/2001/ -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 24 17:19: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C2C14BCC; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16597; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:18:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:18:53 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Satoshi Asami Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports INDEX Message-ID: <19990824191852.M28846@futuresouth.com> References: <199908242312.QAA43464@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199908242312.QAA43464@freefall.freebsd.org>; from Satoshi Asami on Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 04:12:49PM -0700 X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 04:12:49PM -0700, a little birdie told me that Satoshi Asami remarked > asami 1999/08/24 16:12:49 PDT > > Modified files: > . INDEX > Log: > Now that Steve's back, we have 2,565 = 3 x 3 x 3 x 5 x 19 (whee, 5 > factors, all odd numbers! how odd!) ports. Indeed an interesting number. Note that the first 3 are 3, and can thus be removed. We're left with 2 numbers, the first of which is 5, and the second of which is 2 digits adding up to 10, so a number can be derived from its (adjusted) position by a simple multiplication by 5. This is, of course, also obtainable by noting that there are 5 factors, so we adjust the list to start with the first occurance of '5'... Taking the unfactored number, we see the first digit is 2, followed by a 5, indicating that there are to be 2 '5' digits in the number, as well as the closest larger (than 5) factor of 2, thus building the entire number as well. OK, so maybe my mind is a little mathematically tilted. I'll go find my pills now... -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Unix Systems Administrator | fullermd@futuresouth.com Specializing in FreeBSD | http://www.over-yonder.net/ FutureSouth Communications | ISPHelp ISP Consulting "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 24 17:43:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hodgepodge.Sendmail.COM (nat.Sendmail.COM [206.189.75.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A0414BCE for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:43:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@hodgepodge.Sendmail.COM) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by hodgepodge.Sendmail.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03504 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:41:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990824174107.A3488@Sendmail.COM> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:41:07 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: August Berkeley Bafug Reply-To: jgrosch@Sendmail.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Berkeley BAFUG August 1999 Meeting The Berkeley chapter of the Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, August 26nd. This months meeting will be held at The Transbay / UC Computers at 2569 Telegraph Ave. in Berkeley. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Our Agenda will be : * Our main speaker has not yet been determined * Josef Grosch will talk about BAFUGs plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on August 28th at The Robert Austin Computer Show at the Cow Palace in Daly City. * Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round * Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at UC Computers / Transbay in Berkeley. UC Computers is located at 2569 Telegraph Ave. between Parker & Baker Streets. There is limited parking on the street. Their phone number is (510) 649-6087. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions: By AC Transit bus: By AC Transit bus: Routes 40 El Cerrito - Bayfair, 64 Downtown Berkeley - Merritt College, 51 Berkeley - Oakland - Alameda, 52 U.C. Village - U.C. Campus, 7 Del Norte BART - Rockridge BART, and "U" San Francisco - Berkeley stop nearby. By BART: From the downtown Berkeley station, walk uphill (east) one block on Allston Way to Oxford Street at the edge of the UC campus, turning right (south) two blocks to turn left (east) onto Bancroft Way. Walk three blocks uphill to turn right (south) onto Telegraph Avenue. Transbay/UC Computers is 5 1/2 short blocks ahead, at 2569 Telegraph. By Car: By car: From I-80, exit eastbound on University Avenue, and proceed two miles to the end, turning right (south) on Oxford Street. Proceed 11 blocks along Oxford (which becomes Fulton Street) to turn left (east) on Parker Street. Go three blocks to Telegraph, and park where you can. Transbay/UC Computers is at 2569 Telegraph. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs

http://www.transbay.net http://www.bafug.org Contact: Please contact either Nicole Harrington , or Josef Grosch on or before August 26nd so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2 jgrosch@Sendmail.COM | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 24 18:52: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B962114F13 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:52:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doug@whistle.com) Received: from dbrent (DBRENT.whistle.com [207.76.205.226]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA77073; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <044d01beee9b$abb72280$e2cd4ccf@dbrent.whistle.com> From: "Doug Brent" To: Cc: Subject: A New Day at Whistle Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:46:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't subscribe to this list so I'm sure my name is unfamiliar to you. I'm Doug Brent, and for the last three years I have headed up development at Whistle. Recently, Terry Lambert and Julian Elischer (names I'm sure _are_ more familiar to you) passed along a note to me posted on this list from Chistopher Masto with some concerns as to the future of the InterJet and our customers (Whistle's FreeBSD-based hardware/software product). I want to thank Christopher for raising these concerns, because undoubtedly other people have them as well. As you may or may not know, Whistle was purchased by IBM about eight weeks ago. The reason why Whistle agreed to join IBM is that we think we are going to be delivering some killer small business solutions with IBM. Further, as part of IBM, our reach, and the corresponding ability to make a lot of small business's lives better, grows enormously. And--as you might expect--until we are ready to make some public announcements, I can't say much about our future plans (though the wait won't be long). Here's what I can say. We will continue to support our existing customers in accordance with the agreements we have in place with them. Although we haven't been perfect, our team take customer satisfaction very seriously. A new Whistle FreeBSD-based platform is now shipping in Japan and has already been reviewed in the U.S--winning the PC Magazine Editor's Choice Award; see: http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,404538,00.html Stay tuned for our upcoming plans. No one can fully predict the future, so I can't make "forever" statements about software direction. I can say that our next products will be based on FreeBSD, and--plug, plug--we are always looking to hire knowledgeable FreeBSD folks. We will continue to contribute code to the FreeBSD community (and other Open Source projects) and will find other ways to support the community. For example, Whistle has pledged to support the upcoming FreeBSD Conference with $2,000. I know this isn't a lot of data, and I still thought it was worth it to make this post. I hope it helps somewhat. Our goal: make better solutions that attract a lot more customers, and make us an even bigger FreeBSD success story. Thanks for your interest. Doug * * * * * * * * Doug Brent Vice President Product Development Whistle Communications 650.577.7067 --> http://www.whistle.com * * * * * * * * Doug Brent Vice President Product Development Whistle Communications 650.577.7067 --> http://www.whistle.com * * * * * * * * Doug Brent Vice President Product Development Whistle Communications 650.577.7067 --> http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 25 7:37:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [209.201.74.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1D0159F0 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:37:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 320A741BB; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 27C3C9BD1 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:36:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Press mention, before Linux even. Message-ID: X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.theregister.co.uk/990824-000005.html The Register mentions FreeBSD before Linux in the above article. Woo. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 25 12:48:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0890015381 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:47:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14650; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:46:35 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:46:35 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SPARC? Message-ID: <19990825204635.A12273@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199908231705.KAA13676@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> <15704.935600210@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <15704.935600210@localhost>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Aug 25, 1999 at 09:56:50AM -0700 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 25, 1999 at 09:56:50AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I prodded Scott McNealy a couple of weeks ago about this, Phew, caught it. You want to be more careful with those names, they're dropping all over the place :-) N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 25 14:25:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gta.com (mailgate.gta.com [199.120.225.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7728514CB8 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:25:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lab@gta.com) Received: from gta.com (GTA internal mail system) by gta.com with ESMTP id RAA29712 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37C4600B.8167FAAE@gta.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:28:43 -0400 From: Larry Baird Reply-To: lab@gta.com Organization: GTA, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSDCon and networking track Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My name is Larry Baird and I am heading up the networking track at FreeBSDCon (http://www.freebsdcon.org). I am looking for somebody to present a paper on using FreeBSD in a heterogeneous environment. This paper should attempt to cover all of the packages/ports provided with FreeBSD for sharing data with: 1) Unix/Linux 2) Windows/DOS 3) Macintosh Anybody interested? Thanks for your time, Larry -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Larry Baird Global Technology Associates, Inc. | Orlando, FL Email: lab@gta.com | TEL 407-380-0220, FAX 407-380-6080 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 25 14:31:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9BBB14DC8; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:31:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16823; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Nik Clayton Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SPARC? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:46:35 BST." <19990825204635.A12273@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:31:35 -0700 Message-ID: <16819.935616695@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It was a very deliberate name-drop, believe me. I was making a point to Jason in so doing, that point being "don't always assume we're completely incapable when it comes to this multi-architecture thing, OK?" :) - Jordan > On Wed, Aug 25, 1999 at 09:56:50AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I prodded Scott McNealy a couple of weeks ago about this, > > > > Phew, caught it. > > You want to be more careful with those names, they're dropping all over > the place :-) > > N > -- > [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, > non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs > the links. > -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 25 17:57:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 26E6315C76; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F831CD8BE; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:57:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:57:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Mike Pritchard Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposed rules for committers. In-Reply-To: <199908252219.RAA45817@mpp.pro-ns.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Mike Pritchard wrote: > > 10. Test your changes. > > When making documentaion changes, or writing new documentation, > run your favorite spell check program over the change before > committing it. You're the second person now who has misspelled something in their warning about careful spelling. I guess either you're making an ironic joke or Murphy is intervening 'twixt brain and fingertip :-) Kris (who read this message carefully 3 times before sending) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 25 20: 9: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8308115A23 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:09:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01008; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:08:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Wes Peters Cc: Warner Losh , E Kovarski , Alex Nash , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VPN for FreeBSD 2.2.8 and 3.2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:07:05 MDT." <37C1D419.B844DCE@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:08:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1004.935636918@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Redirected to -chat; I don't think this has anything to do with security or advocacy at this point!] > Warner Losh wrote: > > > > In message <37C19181.9046615A@softweyr.com> Wes Peters writes: > > : Several others have asked for this as well, so here's the first > > : mention of it: > > : http://www.computerworld.com/home/news.nsf/all/9908102chaos > > > > Yes, but where's the claymation MPEG of the Linux Death Match :-) > > Where is Nick Park when you need him? Too busy doing Chevron commercials, I think. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 25 20:24:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA11615832; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:24:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) Received: from winbox (we-24-130-60-147.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.147]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA29524; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990825202015.00799af0@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:20:15 -0700 To: questions@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org From: Joey Garcia Subject: FreeBSD and PowerPC (The IBM Motherboard Thing) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey all! I was wondering what stance FreeBSD will have when IBM publishes it's open motherboard specification for PowerPC based motherboards. Will the FreeBSD project embrace the PowerPC platform considering it will be open easily attainable? At work we have an AS/400 (nice database machine, although way overpriced) which uses the IBM PowerPC 64 bit chip. That machine cranks out alot of work using only one CPU -- it does everything from warehouse inventory control to supporting more than 50 users without breaking a sweat. I can only imagine the possibilies with FreeBSD ported to the PowerPC platform. Anyways, I was just curious to what plans are ahead for FreeBSD and the PowerPC. Joey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 1:52:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6385B153A4; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 01:52:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.0.1) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:50:38 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id RH63GR7C; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:50:22 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 11JvFS-000Go8-00; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:51:06 +0100 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:51:06 +0100 To: Joey Garcia Cc: questions@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD and PowerPC (The IBM Motherboard Thing) Message-ID: <19990826095106.A64463@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> References: <3.0.6.32.19990825202015.00799af0@we.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990825202015.00799af0@we.mediaone.net>; from Joey Garcia on Wed, Aug 25, 1999 at 08:20:15PM -0700 From: Dominic Mitchell Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 25, 1999 at 08:20:15PM -0700, Joey Garcia wrote: > I was wondering what stance FreeBSD will have when IBM publishes it's open > motherboard specification for PowerPC based motherboards. Will the FreeBSD > project embrace the PowerPC platform considering it will be open easily > attainable? I should imagine that anyone willing to do the work (and there'll be a lot of it) and remain committed to it would have full support. > At work we have an AS/400 (nice database machine, although way overpriced) > which uses the IBM PowerPC 64 bit chip. That machine cranks out alot of > work using only one CPU -- it does everything from warehouse inventory > control to supporting more than 50 users without breaking a sweat. I can > only imagine the possibilies with FreeBSD ported to the PowerPC platform. You won't be putting FreeBSD on the AS/400 anytime soon. AS/400 has a totally different supporting architecture when compared to things like the Macintosh, which I believe is based on the CHRP (Common Hardware Reference Platform), the same as the RS/6000's. -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator "Ordinary folks who don't understand computers don't deserve to be mocked. Ordinary people who want to use their computers but refuse to learn anything about them do." -- slashdot comment ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 2:12:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (ferg5200-1-7.cpinternet.com [208.149.16.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0832514E6D; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 02:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id EAA32087; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:12:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from alk) From: Anthony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:12:44 -0500 (CDT) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: K6-2 motherboards Was, Re: Softupdates reliability? X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14277.853.14817.919574@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to chat] : > Yes, you stand a far better chance of making this hack work with a 66MHz : > part. No the newer std parts are not designed to run with a 66MHz FSB, : > you should always order them as /66. Note that AMD has stopped making : > these chips due to low demand for them (with 100MHz boards <$80 USA the : > price/performance is usually worth it for most folks.) : : The USA... your prices tend to be a lot better than ours. I could can the : T2P4 but that would also mean I had to can the SIMMs (everything is DIMMs : now), get an AGP videocard and can the perfectly fine Millenium II (I need : the extra PCI slot quite badly) and buy a new CPU. Oh, and buy an ATX case. : In the end that is quite a bit more than $80. Unfortunately. I like the Tyan "Trinity", S1590AT. SIMM sockets, DIMM sockets, highly variable clocks and voltages throughout, AT *or* ATX power, PS/2 mouse, USB header, IR support. Works with K6-2 and K6-3 to 500MHz. 1AGP + 4PCI + 4ISA. Very flexible. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 2:36:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ipt2.iptelecom.net.ua (ipt2.iptelecom.net.ua [212.42.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2408715BBB for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 02:36:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sobomax@altavista.net) Received: from vega. (dialup2-11.iptelecom.net.ua [212.42.74.75]) by ipt2.iptelecom.net.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19813; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:36:00 +0300 (EEST) Received: from altavista.net (big_brother [192.168.1.1]) by vega. (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27078; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:34:47 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from sobomax@altavista.net) Message-ID: <37C50A37.8CEB623D@altavista.net> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:34:47 +0300 From: Maxim Sobolev Reply-To: sobomax@altavista.net Organization: Vega International Capital X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: ru,uk,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: alk@pobox.com Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: K6-2 motherboards Was, Re: Softupdates reliability? References: <14277.853.14817.919574@avalon.east> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anthony Kimball wrote: > [moved to chat] > > : > Yes, you stand a far better chance of making this hack work with a 66MHz > : > part. No the newer std parts are not designed to run with a 66MHz FSB, > : > you should always order them as /66. Note that AMD has stopped making > : > these chips due to low demand for them (with 100MHz boards <$80 USA the > : > price/performance is usually worth it for most folks.) > : > : The USA... your prices tend to be a lot better than ours. I could can the > : T2P4 but that would also mean I had to can the SIMMs (everything is DIMMs > : now), get an AGP videocard and can the perfectly fine Millenium II (I need > : the extra PCI slot quite badly) and buy a new CPU. Oh, and buy an ATX case. > : In the end that is quite a bit more than $80. Unfortunately. > > I like the Tyan "Trinity", S1590AT. SIMM sockets, DIMM sockets, > highly variable clocks and voltages throughout, AT *or* ATX power, > PS/2 mouse, USB header, IR support. Works with K6-2 and K6-3 to 500MHz. > 1AGP + 4PCI + 4ISA. Very flexible. You forgot to mention 1MB Level 2 cache onboard, CPU temperature sensor, support for 2 fans with rpm sensors powered from mobo etc.... ;) Coool mobo! -Maxim -- "We believe in the Power and the Might!" (Manowar, 1996) ---------------------------------------- Maxim V. Sobolev, Financial Analyst, Vega International Capital Phone: +380-(44)-246-6396 Fax: +380-(44)-220-8715 E-mail: sobomax@altavista.net ICQ: #42290709 ---------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 5: 6:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF2FD15A84 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 05:06:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04556; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:01:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <199908261201.IAA04556@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: alk@pobox.com Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: K6-2 motherboards Was, Re: Softupdates reliability? References: <14277.853.14817.919574@avalon.east> In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:12:44 CDT." <14277.853.14817.919574@avalon.east> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:01:42 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > [moved to chat] > > : > Yes, you stand a far better chance of making this hack work with a 66MHz > : > part. No the newer std parts are not designed to run with a 66MHz FSB, > : > you should always order them as /66. Note that AMD has stopped making > : > these chips due to low demand for them (with 100MHz boards <$80 USA the > : > price/performance is usually worth it for most folks.) > : > : The USA... your prices tend to be a lot better than ours. I could can the > : T2P4 but that would also mean I had to can the SIMMs (everything is DIMMs > : now), get an AGP videocard and can the perfectly fine Millenium II (I need > : the extra PCI slot quite badly) and buy a new CPU. Oh, and buy an ATX case. > : In the end that is quite a bit more than $80. Unfortunately. > > I like the Tyan "Trinity", S1590AT. SIMM sockets, DIMM sockets, > highly variable clocks and voltages throughout, AT *or* ATX power, > PS/2 mouse, USB header, IR support. Works with K6-2 and K6-3 to 500MHz. > 1AGP + 4PCI + 4ISA. Very flexible. Also the FIC VA-503+ is in a similar class - oriented specifically for the upgrader with existing SIMM RAM. It's an Baby-AT form factor, 1 AGP, 3 PCI, 2 or 3 ISA, etc. I've got a K6-2 350MHz in an FIC VA-503+ based system, and a K6-3 450MHz using the S1590A Trinity, both running at 100MHz FSB. The FIC is sorta nifty in that you can independently control the CPU FSB frequency to the cache, while independently controlling the access speed to the DRAM. So I'm running the old DRAM at 66MHz, while the rest of the FSB is running at 100MHz. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 5:39:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [209.201.74.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA89B14FB6 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 05:39:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 46AD741F7; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 42FD69BDB for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:36:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Another mention in The Register. Message-ID: X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org They also assert Dell's site runs on FreeBSD, anyone out there confirm this? http://www.theregister.co.uk/990826-000005.html They mention FreeBSD at the bottom in the 'Factoid'. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 6: 3:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 53DC515B8F for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 06:03:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 22311 invoked from network); 26 Aug 1999 13:01:12 -0000 Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.41) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 26 Aug 1999 13:01:12 -0000 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:01:12 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Jamie Bowden Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Another mention in The Register. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > They also assert Dell's site runs on FreeBSD, anyone out there confirm > this? According to Netcraft: www.dell.com www.dell.com is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on NT4 or Windows 98 http://www.netcraft.com/whats/?host=www.dell.com David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 7:40:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC7E15C25 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23017; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (hC6524392.dhcp.vt.edu [198.82.67.146]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01094; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908261301.JAA01094@sable.cc.vt.edu> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:01:17 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Jamie Bowden Subject: RE: Another mention in The Register. Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 26-Aug-99 Jamie Bowden wrote: > > They also assert Dell's site runs on FreeBSD, anyone out there confirm > this? > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/990826-000005.html > > They mention FreeBSD at the bottom in the 'Factoid'. > > Jamie Bowden According to NetCraft, www.dell.com is an IIS server: http://www.netcraft.com/whats/?host=www.dell.com --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 9:19:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.runet.edu (peloton.runet.edu [137.45.96.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 307D815B8D for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:19:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.runet.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.runet.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08015; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:17:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.runet.edu) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:17:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Jamie Bowden Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Another mention in The Register. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Jamie Bowden wrote: > They also assert Dell's site runs on FreeBSD, anyone out there confirm > this? > http://www.theregister.co.uk/990826-000005.html > They mention FreeBSD at the bottom in the 'Factoid'. Where? I didn't see a "Factoid" at the URL (I could be blind) or a mention of Dell anywhere - this link points to a W2K release-date slip (what a surprise). That said, Netcraft (www.netcraft.com) says www.dell.com runs NT. I must be blind - searching at The Register says Dell and FreeBSD are located on this page, although I sure can't find it. Brett ***************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.runet.edu * Dept of Chem and Physics * Curie 39A (540) 831-6147 * ***************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 9:44:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [209.201.74.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E98014F27 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:44:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 4128241FB; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3A2CF9BDC; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:42:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Brett Taylor Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Another mention in The Register. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Brett Taylor wrote: :Hi, : :On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Jamie Bowden wrote: : :> They also assert Dell's site runs on FreeBSD, anyone out there confirm :> this? : :> http://www.theregister.co.uk/990826-000005.html : :> They mention FreeBSD at the bottom in the 'Factoid'. : :Where? I didn't see a "Factoid" at the URL (I could be blind) or a :mention of Dell anywhere - this link points to a W2K release-date slip :(what a surprise). : :That said, Netcraft (www.netcraft.com) says www.dell.com runs NT. : :I must be blind - searching at The Register says Dell and FreeBSD are :located on this page, although I sure can't find it. The article was about a speach F Gates made at some Dell gathering, and they interpreted it as 'Win2k might see the end of the year, but don't bet the wife on it'. The Factoid was at the bottom. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 11: 5:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A991114D2C for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:05:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.168]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA448D; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:05:14 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA35174; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:55:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:55:52 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Jamie Bowden Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Another mention in The Register. Message-ID: <19990826195552.A35142@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.7i In-Reply-To: Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Jamie Bowden (ragnar@sysabend.org) [990826 17:14]: > >They also assert Dell's site runs on FreeBSD, anyone out there confirm >this? Rest assured... Dell knows about FreeBSD... They even like to point The Matrix pressrelease out to people... -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Figures won't lie, but liars will figure. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 11: 5:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA0915433 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:05:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.168]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAB448D; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:05:15 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA35178; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:58:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:58:59 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Larry Baird Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSDCon and networking track Message-ID: <19990826195859.B35142@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <37C4600B.8167FAAE@gta.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.7i In-Reply-To: <37C4600B.8167FAAE@gta.com> Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Larry Baird (lab@gta.com) [990826 02:14]: >My name is Larry Baird and I am heading up the networking track at >FreeBSDCon (http://www.freebsdcon.org). I am looking for somebody >to present a paper on using FreeBSD in a heterogeneous environment. >This paper should attempt to cover all of the packages/ports provided >with FreeBSD for sharing data with: > 1) Unix/Linux > 2) Windows/DOS > 3) Macintosh Feh... Too bad I am not going to be at the 'con =( I could have told about integration of FreeBSD with NetWare, NT, AIX... Darn... =( -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best When faith is lost, when honor dies, The man is dead! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 13:17: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mpp.pro-ns.net (pppdsle70.mpls.uswest.net [216.160.23.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACA2114C38; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:17:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.pro-ns.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA79233; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:17:05 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mpp) From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199908262017.PAA79233@mpp.pro-ns.net> Subject: Re: Proposed rules for committers. In-Reply-To: from Kris Kennaway at "Aug 25, 1999 05:57:21 pm" To: kris@hub.freebsd.org (Kris Kennaway) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:17:05 -0500 (CDT) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Mike Pritchard wrote: > > > > 10. Test your changes. > > > > When making documentaion changes, or writing new documentation, > > run your favorite spell check program over the change before > > committing it. > > You're the second person now who has misspelled something in their warning > about careful spelling. I guess either you're making an ironic joke or > Murphy is intervening 'twixt brain and fingertip :-) Doh! Murphy got involved :-). I was typing that message as my buddy was sitting in my driveway honking his horn to get me to hurry up. I should have known better than to push send at a time like that. -Mike -- Mike Pritchard mpp@FreeBSD.ORG or mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 26 13:22:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00FED1545F; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:22:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.212]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990826202403.TNJT2478302.mta2-rme@wocker>; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:24:03 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Mike Pritchard Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:20:36 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Proposed rules for committers. Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199908262017.PAA79233@mpp.pro-ns.net> References: from Kris Kennaway at "Aug 25, 1999 05:57:21 pm" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Message-Id: <19990826202403.TNJT2478302.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 26 Aug 99, at 15:17, Mike Pritchard wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Mike Pritchard wrote: > > > > > > 10. Test your changes. > > > > > > When making documentaion changes, or writing new documentation, > > > run your favorite spell check program over the change before > > > committing it. > > > > You're the second person now who has misspelled something in their > > warning about careful spelling. I guess either you're making an ironic > > joke or Murphy is intervening 'twixt brain and fingertip :-) > > Doh! > > Murphy got involved :-). I was typing that message as my buddy > was sitting in my driveway honking his horn to get me to hurry > up. I should have known better than to push send at a time like that. I can't believe your buddy is named Murphy. -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 27 2:41:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freenix.no (freenix.no [195.139.70.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F59615568 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 02:41:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from morten@freenix.no) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freenix.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA14770 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:43:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:43:34 +0200 (METDST) From: "Morten A. Middelthon" To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Another mention in The Register. In-Reply-To: <19990826195552.A35142@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > * Jamie Bowden (ragnar@sysabend.org) [990826 17:14]: > > > >They also assert Dell's site runs on FreeBSD, anyone out there confirm > >this? > > Rest assured... Dell knows about FreeBSD... > They even like to point The Matrix pressrelease out to people... F.ex: http://www.dell.com/products/workstat/profiles/manex.htm I guess most of you have already seen this, but what the hell.... -- Morten A. Middelthon Freenix Norge http://www.freenix.no/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 27 5:11:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from megaweapon.zigg.com (megaweapon.zigg.com [206.114.60.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00CC15E1A; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:11:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matt@zigg.com) Received: from localhost (matt@localhost) by megaweapon.zigg.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03969; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:09:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from matt@zigg.com) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:09:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Matt Behrens To: Michael Robinson Cc: Jeff.Baker@acadhotline.net.au, stephen@math.missouri.edu, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbee In-Reply-To: <199908270528.NAA27601@netrinsics.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [This thread really doesn't belong in -stable. Followups directed to -chat, which I really must subscribe to one of these days. :-)] On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Michael Robinson wrote: : >Any unix like OS will have a steep initial learning curve, and there : >is a lot of learning to do. : : What is a "steep learning curve"? Where does that term come from? Picture this, if you will: A graph with two axes, the vertical being time and knowledge invested, and the horizontal being what you can accomplish. Obviously everything starts at zero. With any UNIXish system, you can expect that your first bit of learning you must invest will be more than you get out of the system. Therefore the line drawn as you invest time and learning knowledge goes upward steeply while travelling to the right slowly. However, the design philosophy of UNIX is quite ingenious, IMO. The curve will eventually start to flatten much more, so that you invest a lot less to accomplish more results. To contrast that, if you take a system like Windows NT your initial curve does give you quite a few immediate rewards right away, but you find as you go that your curve starts to steepen -- taking much more investment to accomplish the same thing. Eventually with NT you will also reach a point where you cannot do it at all and must rely on others -- this is where the beauty of open source OSs come in: if you care to invest, you can make your OS do *anything*. I'd draw a picture but this is ASCII mail... oh, heck, I'll do it anyway... just don't laugh. (And don't ask me what the learning curve is to draw ASCII graphs.) :-) | , | , . | ,. | UNIX- . , | . , | . , | . , -NT | . , |. , __|.________________ | HTH. (God, that graph really is terrible, isn't it?) :-) Matt Behrens Owner/Administrator, zigg.com Chief Engineer, Nameless IRC Network To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 27 7:16:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from public.bta.net.cn (public.bta.net.cn [202.96.0.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 814B514D99 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:16:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robinson@netrinsics.com) Received: from netrinsics.com (TCE-E-7-178-168.bta.net.cn [202.106.178.168]) by public.bta.net.cn (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA05545 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:11:41 +0800 (CST) Received: (from robinson@localhost) by netrinsics.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id WAA28419; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:11:31 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from robinson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:11:31 +0800 (CST) From: Michael Robinson Message-Id: <199908271411.WAA28419@netrinsics.com> To: matt@zigg.com, robinson@netrinsics.com Subject: Re: Newbee Cc: chat@freebsd.org, Jeff.Baker@acadhotline.net.au, stephen@math.missouri.edu In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Picture this, if you will: > >A graph with two axes, the vertical being time and knowledge >invested, and the horizontal being what you can accomplish. All well and good, but that seems backwards. Time is almost always the domain of a function, and proficiency should then be the range of the function. Where did you get this information? -Michael Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 27 7:53:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from megaweapon.zigg.com (megaweapon.zigg.com [206.114.60.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C3615EC6 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:52:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matt@zigg.com) Received: from localhost (matt@localhost) by megaweapon.zigg.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04179; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:50:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from matt@zigg.com) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:50:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Matt Behrens To: Michael Robinson Cc: chat@freebsd.org, Jeff.Baker@acadhotline.net.au, stephen@math.missouri.edu Subject: Learning curves (was Re: Newbee) In-Reply-To: <199908271411.WAA28419@netrinsics.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Michael Robinson wrote: : >Picture this, if you will: : > : >A graph with two axes, the vertical being time and knowledge : >invested, and the horizontal being what you can accomplish. : All well and good, but that seems backwards. Time is almost always the : domain of a function, and proficiency should then be the range of the : function. Sorry, I never was good at math. I leave that to the eggheads. The important thing is that people understand it. I would wager from the widespread acceptance of the phrase that it is widely understood despite its apparent inconsistency with mathematical practice. : Where did you get this information? The first time I heard the phrase "steep learning curve", that picture jumped into my mind. The bit about Windows I added myself as part of an argument I was having with some colleagues. I wish I could cite something for you, but I can't. Matt Behrens Owner/Administrator, zigg.com Chief Engineer, Nameless IRC Network To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 27 8:31:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nosferatu.cncx.com (nosferatu.cncx.com [216.112.37.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA3B915351 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:31:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zcollier@cncx.com) Received: from cncx.com (BONES [216.112.38.30]) by nosferatu.cncx.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id RV5MTS0G; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:29:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37C6B00D.147CCDBF@cncx.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:34:37 -0700 From: Zander Collier X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: Linux gets its own credit card] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------456BF21E35C9786F000DDE98" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------456BF21E35C9786F000DDE98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------456BF21E35C9786F000DDE98 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from f0lzr (ts025d33.sjc-ca.concentric.net [206.173.238.237]) by nosferatu.cncx.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id RV5MTSCF; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:44:26 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990827073929.009461b0@pop3-corp.cncx.com> X-Sender: jmcquillan@pop3-corp.cncx.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:45:21 -0700 To: jsoule@cncx.com,dblaettler@cncx.com,mhamilton@cncx.com, zcollier@cncx.com,kkohn@cncx.com,adavenport@cncx.com From: Jim McQuillan Subject: Linux gets its own credit card Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 If they can sign up 100,000 people, that would provide an estimated $2 million a year to fund development Linux projects and scholarships. http://technews.netscape.com/computing/technews/newsitem/0%2C290%2C41002= %2C0 0.html Benefits of the card -------------------- Receive a free Linux Fund t-shirt after your first purchase with the = card! For every new account that is opened and every purchase made with the = card, MBNA America=AE Bank will make a contribution to the Linux Fund=97at no additional cost to you. No Annual Fee. 3.9% Introductory Annual Percentage Rate (APR)=86 on Cash Advance = Checks and Balance Transfers. A low 12.99% fixed APR after introductory period. --------------456BF21E35C9786F000DDE98-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 27 8:55:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from public.bta.net.cn (public.bta.net.cn [202.96.0.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70108154BB for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:55:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robinson@netrinsics.com) Received: from netrinsics.com (TCE-E-7-179-81.bta.net.cn [202.106.179.81]) by public.bta.net.cn (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA01621 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:51:22 +0800 (CST) Received: (from robinson@localhost) by netrinsics.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id XAA29148; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:49:21 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from robinson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:49:21 +0800 (CST) From: Michael Robinson Message-Id: <199908271549.XAA29148@netrinsics.com> To: matt@zigg.com, robinson@netrinsics.com Subject: Re: Learning curves (was Re: Newbee) Cc: chat@freebsd.org, Jeff.Baker@acadhotline.net.au, stephen@math.missouri.edu In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matt Behrens writes: >Sorry, I never was good at math. I leave that to the eggheads. >The important thing is that people understand it. I would wager >from the widespread acceptance of the phrase that it is widely >understood despite its apparent inconsistency with mathematical >practice. > >The first time I heard the phrase "steep learning curve", that >picture jumped into my mind. The bit about Windows I added myself >as part of an argument I was having with some colleagues. I wish >I could cite something for you, but I can't. So, you heard someone use the phrase, a picture popped jumped into your mind, and you were sufficiently confident that the picture in your mind was accurate that you started using the phrase yourself, accordingly? I suppose if everybody did the same thing, you might get "widespread acceptance" of a "widely understood" term that was, in fact, completely wrong. "While the unit costs of the new technology may initially be higher than that of the pre-existing one, due to the presence of a learning curve the unit cost for the former may eventually become lower. However, in deciding whether to switch to the new technology, a manager in a firm may be uncertain about the slope of the learning curve: if the slope is very flat, it may be worthwhile to maintain the old technology, while if unit costs decrease very rapidly it would be better to switch to the new one." "Learning About the Learning Curve" (http://bucky.stanford.edu/cef97/abstracts/bala.html) It seems that the professionals (i.e. "eggheads") use flat slope (i.e. "shallow learning curve") to refer to a difficult-to-learn task, and steep slope (i.e. "steep learning curve") to refer to an easy-to-learn task. -Michael Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 27 10: 6: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02EF715F6C for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:06:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:05:33 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Michael Robinson" , Cc: Subject: RE: Learning curves (was Re: Newbee) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:05:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01bef0ae$5f73e880$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <199908271549.XAA29148@netrinsics.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > It seems that the professionals (i.e. "eggheads") use flat slope (i.e. > "shallow learning curve") to refer to a difficult-to-learn task, and steep > slope (i.e. "steep learning curve") to refer to an easy-to-learn task. > > -Michael Robinson Which is only logical. A steep slope means that one variable changes rapidly with respect to the other one. A shallow slope means you have to move one variable pretty far to move the other one just a little. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 27 18:20:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost2.inspire.net.nz [203.96.157.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C156614D54 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:20:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: (qmail 85161 invoked from network); 28 Aug 1999 01:20:41 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.outpost.co.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by outpost2.inspire.net.nz with SMTP; 28 Aug 1999 01:20:41 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:20:39 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Learning curves (was Re: Newbee) Reply-To: crh@outpost.co.nz In-reply-to: <199908271549.XAA29148@netrinsics.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-Id: <19990828012049.C156614D54@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Robinson wrote: > Matt Behrens writes: > > >Sorry, I never was good at math. I leave that to the eggheads. The > >important thing is that people understand it. I would wager from > >the widespread acceptance of the phrase that it is widely > >understood despite its apparent inconsistency with mathematical > >practice. > > So, you heard someone use the phrase, a picture popped jumped into > your mind, and you were sufficiently confident that the picture in > your mind was accurate that you started using the phrase yourself, > accordingly? > > I suppose if everybody did the same thing, you might get "widespread > acceptance" of a "widely understood" term that was, in fact, > completely wrong. Define "wrong". You may not like it, but the concept of "steep learning curve" to describe a difficult to learn task is widespread within the computer industry, and has been for some time. The example you cite is from Computational Economics (I think - it's hard to find an decent expansion of the CEF acronym on the pages you reference), an entirely different field, and they appear to have a very different take on the entire concept in terms of an organisational and economic analysis. I can't prove it, but I suspect steep=hard has been in use in the computer industry for far longer than in the CEF example you gave (where the earliest paper that defined the terminology was published in 1990). If I was cynical, I'd suggest that this is probably an example of management researchers once again creating an model of the bleeding obvious and hailing it as a great leap forward in management theory. It helps to make your model seem "new" and "innovative" if you define everything the opposite way to everyone else. BTW, it's not just the computer industry that prefers the steep=hard analogy. Here's a couple of examples: http://cargoinfo.co.za/ftw/98/98au21q.html "It's a steep learning curve for producers as a 'difficult' trading year ends " http://www.usyd.edu.au/su/ctcr/issue10/local.html "Local governments face steep learning curve" http://www.rete.it/f1/en/13/01270.html "07/26/1999 - Steep learning curve for Salo" http://www.dodccrp.org/bosch11b.htm "The Army Reach-Back nodes (figure 11-17) were set up in Germany several days prior to the deployment of the tactical equipment to Bosnia, Croatia, and Hungary" -- C. -- Craig Harding crh@outpost.co.nz "I don't know about God, I Outpost Digital Media Ltd crh@inspire.net.nz just think we're handmade" http://www.outpost.co.nz ICQ# 26701833 - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 27 19:15: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CFCB214F88 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:15:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 28831 invoked from network); 28 Aug 1999 02:15:03 -0000 Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.41) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 1999 02:15:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:15:03 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Craig Harding Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Learning curves (was Re: Newbee) In-Reply-To: <19990828012049.C156614D54@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Craig Harding wrote: > I can't prove it, but I suspect steep=hard has been in use in the > computer industry for far longer than in the CEF example you gave > (where the earliest paper that defined the terminology was published > in 1990). I suspect so, since you tend to think steep means hard. A steep hill is hard to climb. However, what little mathmatican is in me cringes at the normal usage, because it confounds domain and range. I like to look at graphs and understand what they mean. When you put time one th Y-axis, you make it harder for me, and I suspect many others, to do that. It is only a convention, but it is pretty deep-seated. David scheidt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 27 20:47:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FBF914DFE for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17585; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:48:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199908280348.XAA17585@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: Learning curves (was Re: Newbee) In-Reply-To: from David Scheidt at "Aug 27, 99 09:15:03 pm" To: dscheidt@enteract.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Cc: crh@outpost.co.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Scheidt wrote, > On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Craig Harding wrote: > > > I can't prove it, but I suspect steep=hard has been in use in the > > computer industry for far longer than in the CEF example you gave > > (where the earliest paper that defined the terminology was published > > in 1990). > > I suspect so, since you tend to think steep means hard. A steep hill is > hard to climb. However, what little mathmatican is in me cringes at the > normal usage, because it confounds domain and range. I like to look at > graphs and understand what they mean. When you put time one th Y-axis, you > make it harder for me, and I suspect many others, to do that. It is only a > convention, but it is pretty deep-seated. Not really. In this particular case, the "time" on the ordinate is typically being considered as a cost. Time translates in to hours of training time or hours of less productive work from an employee. You could equally well cast it as a cost in $$. The idea of having the abscissa measure some level of productivity and the ordinate a cost probably is less offensive to anyone who feels some moral outrage at the idea of having "time" on the y-axis. But just to stir the pot a bit, a graph should _generally_ be constructed so that the independent or "free" variable is placed on the x-axis, and the quantity associated with that number be the y-value for tht point. Even if the ordinate is time, most users of such a plot would pose the question, "Hmmm... How much time does it take for my employee (or me) to gain X amount of competence at this task?" They find X on the abscissa, follow it up to Y and find their time. A graph should be made so it is most easy to use. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 28 11:15:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7573014CFC for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 11:15:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.48]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA61CB for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:11:33 -0400 Message-ID: <37C825EA.2FDACA82@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:09:46 -0500 From: "Pedro Fernando Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es,en-US,it MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: I'm back Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi guys, I safely returned home after visiting the US. It was a great pleasure to meet Jerry Hicks there, and well yes...I admittedly almost got drunk with a single beer :-). I brought with me several second hand books, and an interesting SONY VAIO to play around with FreeBSD. If someone has found itīs way setting the weird parameters in those beasts I'm all ears: it's particularly disturbing to have to start the windows partition to shutdown the computer. I hadn't visited the US since quite some time, as an external visitor it was interesting to see that while linux is getting to be known, it is not as popular as slashdot would suggest, and my guess would be that it will not be ready to compete in the windows market for, at least, ten more years. FreeBSD is unknown right now, but admittedly we are not a replacement for Winblows either. All in all, the US is the land of opportunities, and many things can (and will) change. cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 28 13: 2:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r25.bfm.org [216.127.220.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E2E14E30 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:02:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA00247 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:42:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:41:04 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Got a match? Message-ID: <19990816114104.A231@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Here is an interesting web site about the new IPic - a match head sized web-server: http://www-ccs.cs.umass.edu/~shri/iPic.html This is a tiny chip that can be added to just about appliance. The IPic is a TCP/IP stack in hardware, along with a web server built in. That should allow us to turn on a coffee machine, program a VCR, or cook dinner from our computers, whether at home or via the Internet. Technical documentation is available from the above web site. I just discovered the web site by reading about it in a different mailing list (that is, I had nothing to do with its design, mind you). Fascinating... Adam -- Apply standard disk lamer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 28 19:55:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C569A14EFC; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:55:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@wintelcom.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17307; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:09:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@wintelcom.net) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:09:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Nick Hibma Cc: phk@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: rev 1.156 - fixes _qdivrem: division by zero panic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Nick Hibma wrote: > > Poul-Henning fixed (without knowing) a bug in the fd driver (that must > have sneaked in when changing something to do with dev_t's. > > revision 1.156 > date: 1999/08/28 08:10:13; author: phk; state: Exp; lines: +4 -1 > Initialize dev->si_bsize*, the floppy driver doesn't use dsopen(). > > > The panic is > > _qdivrem: division by zero > > > Hope this info is of use to anyone. Pointed out by: Jesus Monroy ? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message