From owner-freebsd-emulation Sun Jan 31 14:29:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02613 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:29:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [209.244.238.132] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02602 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:29:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA22965 for emulation@freebsd.org; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:23:21 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199901312223.RAA22965@hda.hda.com> Subject: WIN32 development, cygwin32, and wine To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:23:19 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd like to provide some of our tools under the WIN32 API. The only Windows box in the office is a 486SX25 and I prefer to keep it that way. The things that I'm interested in porting are POSIX compliant and use Tk for the user interface, so windows support, though not incredibly native looking, should be straight forward. Can one cross-develop for WIN32 using Cygwin32 and the Tk Windows stuff and then do preliminary testing under Wine? Since all the pieces come from the open source community it should be possible. Poking around on the Cygnus web site didn't uncover any obvious leads. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Feb 2 17:49:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18481 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:49:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18476 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:49:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA02478; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:45:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902030145.RAA02478@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc libs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:46:45 +0800." <199902030146.JAA18991@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:45:15 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This should have been on -emulation, moved. > When trying to link, it complains about libc.os.6 vs libc.so.5. This makes > life rather difficult when trying to test glide programs against my version of > the /dev/3dfx driver. Can someone commit the RedHat dev system (mmmm. egcs > mmmm)? There's nobody actively supporting the Linux emulation libraries at the moment. If you'd like to step forward, I'd really like to talk to you about it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Feb 2 21:45:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25170 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:45:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stephens.ml.org (cm2081634025.ponderosa.ispchannel.com [208.163.40.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25157 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:45:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tas@bungie.ml.org) Received: from bungie.ml.org (localhost.loc [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by stephens.ml.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA20190; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:26:00 GMT (envelope-from tas@bungie.ml.org) Message-Id: <199902030526.FAA20190@stephens.ml.org> To: freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Thomas Stephens From: Thomas Stephens Subject: BSD/OS Emulation Status? Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 21:25:59 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can anyone tell me what the current status of BSD/OS emulation is? My understanding is ELF binaries (and shared libraries) aren't supported. Is this correct and, assuming it is, are there plans to add such support? -tas To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 3 04:12:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22173 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:12:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.euronet.nl (gaia.euronet.nl [194.134.0.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22166 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:12:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-emulation@scc.nl) Received: from scones.sup.scc.nl (i335.ztm.euronet.nl [194.134.67.96]) by gaia.euronet.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17686 from for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:12:29 +0100 (MET) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by scones.sup.scc.nl (8.9.2/8.9.1) id MAA16037 for emulation@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:56:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from freebsd-emulation@scc.nl) Received: from GATEWAY by scones.sup.scc.nl with netnews for emulation@FreeBSD.ORG (emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:56:55 +0100 From: Marcel Moolenaar Message-ID: <36B83987.19E8F638@scc.nl> Organization: SCC vof Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199902030146.JAA18991@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com>, <199902030145.RAA02478@dingo.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc libs Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote: > > This should have been on -emulation, moved. > > > When trying to link, it complains about libc.os.6 vs libc.so.5. This makes > > life rather difficult when trying to test glide programs against my version of > > the /dev/3dfx driver. Can someone commit the RedHat dev system (mmmm. egcs > > mmmm)? > > There's nobody actively supporting the Linux emulation libraries at the > moment. If you'd like to step forward, I'd really like to talk to you > about it. I don't if I'm the right person and I don't know if I have the resources, especially time, but I do know that Linux emulation is very important for FreeBSD and that we get nowhere if we're all waiting for someone to do something... so let's talk :-) I have some raw ideas. I assume you have some ideas too. I guess a lot of people have a lot of ideas... Let's work it out so that we (or I) can *do* something. Currently I don't use the ports-collection. I've downloaded Red Hat 5.2 packages and installed them. I even ported ps(1) [it was needed for Oracle Application Server]. I think we should build the Linux environment from Red Hat packages. The ports-collection should hold special ports (like ps and other kernel/fs-dependent tools). The biggest downside to this is that such a solution requires too much Linux-related knowledge. I do not want the FreeBSD user to burn their fingers on Red Hat packages. So maybe we should indeed offer some prefab collections... marcel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 3 09:50:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18725 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:50:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stephens.ml.org (cm2081634025.ponderosa.ispchannel.com [208.163.40.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18711 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:50:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tas@bungie.ml.org) Received: from bungie.ml.org (localhost.loc [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by stephens.ml.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA21765; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:50:10 GMT (envelope-from tas@bungie.ml.org) Message-Id: <199902031750.RAA21765@stephens.ml.org> To: Marcel Moolenaar cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, Thomas Stephens From: Thomas Stephens Subject: Re: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc libs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:56:55 +0100." <36B83987.19E8F638@scc.nl> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:50:09 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > >I don't if I'm the right person and I don't know if I have the resources, >especially time, but I do know that Linux emulation is very important for >FreeBSD and that we get nowhere if we're all waiting for someone to do >something... so let's talk :-) Yes, very important. I'm currently using Linux emulation to run ksh because I couldn't find a native version (ksh93, not pdksh). >I have some raw ideas. I assume you have some ideas too. I guess a lot of >people have a lot of ideas... Let's work it out so that we (or I) can *do* >something. > >Currently I don't use the ports-collection. I've downloaded Red Hat 5.2 >packages and installed them. I even ported ps(1) [it was needed for Oracle >Application Server]. I think we should build the Linux environment from Red >Hat packages. The ports-collection should hold special ports (like ps and >other kernel/fs-dependent tools). I agree a Linux environment built from packages would be an improvement. I'd personally prefer SuSE, but I suppose most of the major companies (such as Oracle) support Red Hat. There is actually a linux_SuSE port in the NetBSD collection, which is managed though RPMs. It requires rpm-2.5.4, which is in the NetBSD collection as well, and I was able to get both installed on FreeBSD with only a few changes. I bypassed the dependency check because of my lack of experience with ports, but I imagine it would be easy to fix that. I haven't contacted the maintainer of this port (tron@netbsd.org), but perhaps it would be a good starting point? >The biggest downside to this is that such a solution requires too much >Linux-related knowledge. I do not want the FreeBSD user to burn their fingers >on Red Hat packages. So maybe we should indeed offer some prefab >collections... Regards, -tas To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 3 11:11:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04020 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:11:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles240.castles.com [208.214.165.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA03997 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:11:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08199; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:06:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902031906.LAA08199@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Marcel Moolenaar cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc libs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:56:55 +0100." <36B83987.19E8F638@scc.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:06:41 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > There's nobody actively supporting the Linux emulation libraries at the > > moment. If you'd like to step forward, I'd really like to talk to you > > about it. > > I don't if I'm the right person and I don't know if I have the resources, > especially time, but I do know that Linux emulation is very important for > FreeBSD and that we get nowhere if we're all waiting for someone to do > something... so let's talk :-) Cool. > Currently I don't use the ports-collection. I've downloaded Red Hat 5.2 > packages and installed them. This is exactly what I think the port should do. Ie., it should proceed as follows (in the case where nothing is already installed) - Ensure that the Linux emulator is already running. - Download and install the current RedHat RPM binaries. - Download and install (using the just-installed RPM) the various RPMs that Linux applications these days are requiring. The linux-devel port should have the linux-lib port as a prerequisite, and should again use the Linux RPM to install the development RPMs. > I even ported ps(1) [it was needed for Oracle > Application Server]. I think we should build the Linux environment from Red > Hat packages. The ports-collection should hold special ports (like ps and > other kernel/fs-dependent tools). Sounds reasonable. > The biggest downside to this is that such a solution requires too much > Linux-related knowledge. I do not want the FreeBSD user to burn their fingers > on Red Hat packages. So maybe we should indeed offer some prefab > collections... Yes; this is what the linux-lib/linux-devel ports are for. Just list all the RPMs as distfiles, and write a custom do-install target that does the installation work as above. This really isn't too difficult - you're going to spend most of your time working out which two dozen or so RPMs you want installed, but that's about it. If you feel like you can undertake this, start small; just pick four or five RPMs and make the Makefile and packaging work. Get back to us/me here if you need any help. Thanks! -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 3 15:24:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15020 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:24:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.euronet.nl (gaia.euronet.nl [194.134.0.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15001 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:24:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcel@scc.nl) Received: from scones.sup.scc.nl (i156.ztm.euronet.nl [194.134.112.117]) by gaia.euronet.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA05672; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:24:25 +0100 (MET) Received: from scc.nl (scones.sup.scc.nl [192.168.2.4]) by scones.sup.scc.nl (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA83784; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:24:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marcel@scc.nl) Message-ID: <36B8DAA6.B5BF232E@scc.nl> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 00:24:22 +0100 From: Marcel Moolenaar Organization: SCC vof X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc libs) References: <199902031906.LAA08199@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote: > > > Currently I don't use the ports-collection. I've downloaded Red Hat 5.2 > > packages and installed them. > > This is exactly what I think the port should do. Ie., it should > proceed as follows (in the case where nothing is already installed) > > - Ensure that the Linux emulator is already running. Check. > - Download and install the current RedHat RPM binaries. I prefer the RPM port for the following reasons: 1. It is easier. 2. Releases and updates of RPM are independent of Red Hat releases. 3. We cannot satisfy any possible configuration with only a few prefab collections; so we can expect users to want to install individual packages too. A FreeBSD native rpm is more pleasant to use than an emulated one. > - Download and install (using the just-installed RPM) the various RPMs > that Linux applications these days are requiring. This is the hard part. I think we're better off with more than two collections, because that would scales better (especially for small installations). We also benefit from the dependency information stored in the port. > The linux-devel port should have the linux-lib port as a prerequisite, > and should again use the Linux RPM to install the development RPMs. What about the following collections (as a start): Linux: basic runtime environment (whatever we define it :-) Linux-devel: basic development env. (needs Linux) Linux-X11: X runtime environment (needs Linux) Linux-X11-devel: X development env. (needs Linux-devel) linux-ports: FreeBSD ports of linux-specific tools (such as ps(1)) (needs linux) > This really isn't too difficult - you're going to spend most of your > time working out which two dozen or so RPMs you want installed, but > that's about it. True. I've already build a port to test things. It can almost be committed :-) > If you feel like you can undertake this, start small; just pick four or > five RPMs and make the Makefile and packaging work. Get back to us/me > here if you need any help. Ok. Feedback time :-) 1. I'll start with the basic (bare minimum), and call it Linux (as to preserve the current ports)... 2. I'm going to use the RPM port as the sole dependency... 3. linux.ko is loaded if necessary... 4. It is going to contain just enough packages to have a Linux bash installed. To be precise: setup-1.9.2-1.noarch.rpm filesystem-1.3.2-3.noarch.rpm basesystem-4.9-3.noarch.rpm ld.so-1.9.5-8.i386.rpm ldconfig-1.9.5-8.i386.rpm glibc-2.0.7-29.i386.rpm termcap-9.12.6-11.noarch.rpm zlib-1.1.3-2.i386.rpm mktemp-1.4-3.i386.rpm libtermcap-2.0.8-10.i386.rpm bash-1.14.7-13.i386.rpm 5. Other collections (to be defined) build upon the 'Linux' collection (see my suggestion of other collections)... marcel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 3 16:06:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24302 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles240.castles.com [208.214.165.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24186 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:06:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09939; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:02:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902040002.QAA09939@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Marcel Moolenaar cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc libs) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 00:24:22 +0100." <36B8DAA6.B5BF232E@scc.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:02:13 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Currently I don't use the ports-collection. I've downloaded Red Hat 5.2 > > > packages and installed them. > > > > This is exactly what I think the port should do. Ie., it should > > proceed as follows (in the case where nothing is already installed) > > > > - Ensure that the Linux emulator is already running. > > Check. > > > - Download and install the current RedHat RPM binaries. > > I prefer the RPM port for the following reasons: > 1. It is easier. Not notably. > 2. Releases and updates of RPM are independent of Red Hat releases. This is bad. We want to be 100% in sync with the release we're trying to emulate. > 3. We cannot satisfy any possible configuration with only a few prefab > collections; so we can expect users to want to install individual packages > too. A FreeBSD native rpm is more pleasant to use than an emulated one. It's not notably different, actually. Now the downsides to using the FreeBSD RPM: - it's not installed in /bin. That's where RedHat puts it, and it's where anything that interacts with the RedHat package database wants it. (eg. The IBM DB2 installer). - its databases don't end up in the canonical place (because that would be stupid on FreeBSD). - it doesn't run in Linux compataility mode, so it won't see things in the /compat/linux tree, nor will it install things there. There's basically no good reason to use the FreeBSD RPM port, and lots of good reasons not to. I went through the process of evaluating both approaches while I was trying to get DB2 installed, and while the RedHat binary doesn't work 100% right either, the FreeBSD binary was definitely going to lead to more heartache. > > - Download and install (using the just-installed RPM) the various RPMs > > that Linux applications these days are requiring. > > This is the hard part. I think we're better off with more than two > collections, because that would scales better (especially for small > installations). We also benefit from the dependency information stored in the > port. There's no hope that Linux emulation is going to work well in a "small installation". We also don't want to limit people to just what's available already in the ports collection. We should aim for a fairly comprehensive base library set, and yes, make it easy for ports to add extra stuff as required. > > The linux-devel port should have the linux-lib port as a prerequisite, > > and should again use the Linux RPM to install the development RPMs. > > What about the following collections (as a start): > > Linux: basic runtime environment (whatever we define it :-) > Linux-devel: basic development env. (needs Linux) > Linux-X11: X runtime environment (needs Linux) This should probably be part of the basic runtime. > Linux-X11-devel: X development env. (needs Linux-devel) Just as this should be part of the basic development environment. > linux-ports: FreeBSD ports of linux-specific tools (such as ps(1)) (needs > linux) If just installing the RPM is enough, these should be in the runtime. If they're from-source ports, then they want to be separate, indeed. The question here is whether they should be FreeBSD binaries installed in /compat/linux, or whether they should be build using the linux compatibility code. Ick. Wherever possible we should extend our emulation so that the Linux-native tools work of course. > > If you feel like you can undertake this, start small; just pick four or > > five RPMs and make the Makefile and packaging work. Get back to us/me > > here if you need any help. > > Ok. Feedback time :-) > > 1. I'll start with the basic (bare minimum), and call it Linux (as to > preserve the current ports)... > 2. I'm going to use the RPM port as the sole dependency... See above on this. > 3. linux.ko is loaded if necessary... Don't load it; just complain if it's not loaded. Loading it may kill the system if the emulator is out-of-version. > 4. It is going to contain just enough packages to have a Linux bash > installed. To be precise: > setup-1.9.2-1.noarch.rpm > filesystem-1.3.2-3.noarch.rpm > basesystem-4.9-3.noarch.rpm > ld.so-1.9.5-8.i386.rpm > ldconfig-1.9.5-8.i386.rpm > glibc-2.0.7-29.i386.rpm > termcap-9.12.6-11.noarch.rpm > zlib-1.1.3-2.i386.rpm > mktemp-1.4-3.i386.rpm > libtermcap-2.0.8-10.i386.rpm > bash-1.14.7-13.i386.rpm > 5. Other collections (to be defined) build upon the 'Linux' collection (see > my suggestion of other collections)... I'd KISS for now; just runtime and development. The development stuff is enormous of course (tools, includes, static libs, manpages, etc.), but the runtime won't bloat all that badly even with the X stuff installed. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 3 20:11:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06657 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:11:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06652 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:11:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from giffunip ([168.176.3.54]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA7110; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:13:56 +0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Pedro Fernando Giffuni" To: Mike Smith Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:11:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc CC: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199902040002.QAA09939@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 00:24:22 +0100." <36B8DAA6.B5BF232E@scc.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <19990203181329.AAA7110@giffunip> Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > > - Download and install the current RedHat RPM binaries. > > > > I prefer the RPM port for the following reasons: > > 1. It is easier. > > Not notably. > FWIW, all the limitations of the native RPM port you mention are solvable. I think it's a matter of taste, but I don't agree that we should carry a complete Linux system in the ports tree: I consider this bloat. In fact we should symlink the linux shell to our native bash port. My 0.02 $ Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 3 20:46:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12994 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:46:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles240.castles.com [208.214.165.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12982 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:46:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11466; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:41:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902040441.UAA11466@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Pedro Fernando Giffuni" cc: Mike Smith , emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:11:49 GMT." <19990203181329.AAA7110@giffunip> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 20:41:12 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > > > > > - Download and install the current RedHat RPM binaries. > > > > > > I prefer the RPM port for the following reasons: > > > 1. It is easier. > > > > Not notably. > > > > FWIW, all the limitations of the native RPM port you mention are > solvable. *sigh* No, they are not. - We can't put it in /bin. We can't make it safely callable from /bin (no, a shellscript wrapper isn't enough). - We can't guarantee that anything that an install forks off will run in 'linux space' - We can't guarantee that the database will be where Linux programs want it to be. Remember that we aren't the only caller that will be invoking RPM. > I think it's a matter of taste, but I don't agree that we should > carry a complete Linux system in the ports tree: I consider this > bloat. I don't think we need to carry "a complete Linux system"; we do need to carry the libraries, and we need a number of support binaries because there are basic expectations made by some of the applications we want to run that we don't want to support in the native system. > In fact we should symlink the linux shell to our native bash > port. The whole point of having a Linux bash is to be able to run shell scripts in "linux space". The same necessity underpins the need to have a native Linux RPM. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 3 23:17:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28385 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:17:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (port45.prairietech.net [208.141.230.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28380 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:17:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id BAA42069; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:17:10 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from alk) From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:17:10 -0600 (CST) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: mike@smith.net.au Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc References: <19990203181329.AAA7110@giffunip> <199902040441.UAA11466@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14009.18708.573160.241150@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoth Mike Smith on Wed, 3 February: : "linux space" Is there a document anywhere which details the defining characteristics of "linux space" and its relationship to the bigger world? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 3 23:24:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29427 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:24:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles214.castles.com [208.214.165.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29421 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:24:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12343; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:19:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902040719.XAA12343@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: alk@pobox.com cc: mike@smith.net.au, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 01:17:10 CST." <14009.18708.573160.241150@avalon.east> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:19:43 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Quoth Mike Smith on Wed, 3 February: > : "linux space" > > Is there a document anywhere which details the defining > characteristics of "linux space" and its relationship to > the bigger world? A process running in "linux space" is treated like a Linux process; it's expected to make Linux system calls, and its view of the filesystem is altered such that /compat/linux is layered over the true root filesystem. This last is the most critical; shellscripts written for Linux *must* run under a shell in "linux space", as otherwise they will pick up the FreeBSD versions of things they run, as well as not find things that are in different places on the two systems. Take as a really simple example, 'uname'. If the script is run in "normal space", it'll return "FreeBSD". If the script is running in "linux space", it'll return "Linux". For most applications, we want _the_latter_. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 3 23:49:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02621 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:49:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atdot.dotat.org (atdot.dotat.org [203.23.150.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02607 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:49:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from newton@atdot.dotat.org) Received: (from newton@localhost) by atdot.dotat.org (8.9.2/8.7) id SAA00549; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:17:51 +1030 (CST) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199902040747.SAA00549@atdot.dotat.org> Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc To: alk@pobox.com Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:17:50 +1030 (CST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <14009.18708.573160.241150@avalon.east> from "Tony Kimball" at Feb 4, 99 01:17:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tony Kimball wrote: > Quoth Mike Smith on Wed, 3 February: > : "linux space" > > Is there a document anywhere which details the defining > characteristics of "linux space" and its relationship to > the bigger world? "Linux space" is what you end up with when you overlay /compat/linux over / When an executable running under a FreeBSD emulator accesses a file, it tries "/compat/linux/pathname"; if that doesn't exist it'll try "pathname". - mark -------------------------------------------------------------------- I tried an internal modem, newton@atdot.dotat.org but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton ----- Voice: +61-4-1958-3414 ------------- Fax: +61-8-83034403 ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 3 23:56:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03450 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:56:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (port45.prairietech.net [208.141.230.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03445 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:56:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id BAA42457; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:56:04 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from alk) From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:56:04 -0600 (CST) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: mike@smith.net.au Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc References: <14009.18708.573160.241150@avalon.east> <199902040719.XAA12343@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14009.20808.441554.916755@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoth Mike Smith on Wed, 3 February: : : A process running in "linux space" is treated like a Linux process; it's : expected to make Linux system calls, and its view of the filesystem is : altered such that /compat/linux is layered over the true root : filesystem. I'm trying to write a few more paragraphs for linux.8, but I'm getting dizzy. Consider this example, where there exists /usr/bin/strings and /compat/linux/usr/bin/strings-gnu, but not /usr/bin/strings-gnu or /compat/linux/usr/bin/strings: bash$ echo $PATH /usr/local/java/bin:/usr/java/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/etc:/usr/lib:/bin bash$ bash$ which strings /usr/bin/strings bash$ which strings-gnu bash$ pwd /usr bash$ ls bin/strings-gnu bin/strings-gnu bash$ strings-gnu < /dev/null bash$ Then there is the difference between cd and ls: bash$ cd /usr bash$ ls ls X11 bin i486-linuxaout lib src X11R6 doc include man X386 i486-linux info openwin bash$ ls /usr ls /usr X11 crash java1.1 mail share X11R6 distrib kaffe man src adm doc lib mdec sybase bin games libdata obj tmp ccs home libexec oracle ucb compat include local ports www corel java lost+found sbin So it appears that while chdir(2) works in linux space, getdirentries(2) does not? If the bash log above is any indicator, predicting how this will effect the results of any given program may be tricky. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Feb 4 01:42:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16961 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:42:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.euronet.nl (gaia.euronet.nl [194.134.0.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16953 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:42:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-emulation@scc.nl) Received: from scones.sup.scc.nl (i445.ztm.euronet.nl [194.134.67.166]) by gaia.euronet.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03138 from for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:42:02 +0100 (MET) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by scones.sup.scc.nl (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA05145 for emulation@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:33:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from freebsd-emulation@scc.nl) Received: from GATEWAY by scones.sup.scc.nl with netnews for emulation@FreeBSD.ORG (emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:33:41 +0100 From: Marcel Moolenaar Message-ID: <36B96975.9AB12E7@scc.nl> Organization: SCC vof Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199902040002.QAA09939@dingo.cdrom.com>, <19990203181329.AAA7110@giffunip> Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pedro Fernando Giffuni wrote: > I think it's a matter of taste, but I don't agree that we should > carry a complete Linux system in the ports tree: I consider this > bloat. In fact we should symlink the linux shell to our native bash > port. That's not a good idea. Having a Linux native shell is what makes emulation work in a lot of cases. marcel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Feb 4 02:02:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA18883 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:02:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.euronet.nl (gaia.euronet.nl [194.134.0.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA18864 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:02:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcel@scc.nl) Received: from scones.sup.scc.nl (i238.ztm.euronet.nl [194.134.67.39]) by gaia.euronet.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12980; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:02:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from scc.nl (scones.sup.scc.nl [192.168.2.4]) by scones.sup.scc.nl (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA05894; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:02:14 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marcel@scc.nl) Message-ID: <36B97026.8D786493@scc.nl> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:02:14 +0100 From: Marcel Moolenaar Organization: SCC vof X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc libs) References: <199902040002.QAA09939@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote: > > Now the downsides to using the FreeBSD RPM: > > - it's not installed in /bin. That's where RedHat puts it, and it's > where anything that interacts with the RedHat package database wants > it. (eg. The IBM DB2 installer). Good point. > - its databases don't end up in the canonical place (because that > would be stupid on FreeBSD). Could be... > - it doesn't run in Linux compataility mode, so it won't see things in > the /compat/linux tree, nor will it install things there. Why not? just specify '--root /compat/linux'. > There's basically no good reason to use the FreeBSD RPM port, and lots > of good reasons not to. I went through the process of evaluating both > approaches while I was trying to get DB2 installed, and while the > RedHat binary doesn't work 100% right either, the FreeBSD binary was > definitely going to lead to more heartache. Hmmm... Red Hat RPM it's gonna be, then. [snipped some collection talk] > > linux-ports: FreeBSD ports of linux-specific tools (such as ps(1)) (needs > > linux) > > If just installing the RPM is enough, these should be in the runtime. > If they're from-source ports, then they want to be separate, indeed. > The question here is whether they should be FreeBSD binaries installed > in /compat/linux, or whether they should be build using the linux > compatibility code. Ick. Wherever possible we should extend our > emulation so that the Linux-native tools work of course. My ps(1) port uses -lkvm. Other ports may need sysctl. In short they have to be FreeBSD binaries emulating the behaviour of Linux binaries. [another big snip] > > I'd KISS for now; just runtime and development. The development stuff > is enormous of course (tools, includes, static libs, manpages, etc.), > but the runtime won't bloat all that badly even with the X stuff > installed. I do not entirely agree, but let's get the show on the road. We can always finetune later if that's at all necessary of course. Consensus: 1. I create a port called Linux, which uses the Red Hat RPM and checks for linux.ko but not automaticly load it and it will be somewhat equivalent to linux_lib. 2. A second port will be called Linux-devel which depends on Linux and will somewhat equal linux_devel. 3. Other ports will be discussed later. marcel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Feb 4 02:46:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA23035 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:46:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stephens.ml.org (cm2081634025.ponderosa.ispchannel.com [208.163.40.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA22993 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:45:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tas@stephens.ml.org) Received: from stephens.ml.org (localhost.loc [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by stephens.ml.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24269; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:45:57 GMT (envelope-from tas@stephens.ml.org) Message-Id: <199902041045.KAA24269@stephens.ml.org> To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Marcel Moolenaar , Mike Smith , Thomas Stephens From: Thomas Stephens Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc libs) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:02:13 PST." <199902040002.QAA09939@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 02:45:56 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> 1. I'll start with the basic (bare minimum), and call it Linux (as to >> preserve the current ports)... A minior suggestion: if you're going to base a new Linux port on a particular distribution (as opposed to a generic set of RPMs from various sources), you might want to include the name of the distribution in the port name. It's actually more important, I think, than the name of the kernel :-), especially if we want to fully implement a compatible equivalent of this distribution. Thomas Stephens tas@altavista.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Feb 4 03:27:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA27436 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:27:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from octopus.originative.co.uk (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA27414 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:26:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) From: paul@originative.co.uk Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <12B0XPX6>; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:24:59 -0000 Message-ID: To: marcel@scc.nl, mike@smith.net.au Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc l ibs) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:24:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Marcel Moolenaar [mailto:marcel@scc.nl] > Sent: 04 February 1999 10:02 > To: Mike Smith > Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work > with glibc > libs) > > > Mike Smith wrote: > > > My ps(1) port uses -lkvm. Other ports may need sysctl. In > short they have to > be FreeBSD binaries emulating the behaviour of Linux binaries. > I think that's a foolish road to go down. You should use actual Linux binaries installed under /compat/linux and make sure the kernel emulation support is good enough to run any arbitrary linux binary. For phase 1 the goal should be to be able to install a real Linux dist under /compat/linux and have it work as though it was a Linux box. That will stress the emulation environment and make it much more likely that we've got it tuned to the point that we can run most if not all Linux binaries. Since the whole point of this (at least the biggest push anyway) is to support commercial Linux apps we need to ensure that the emulation is complete since we've no control over these third party apps. If you want you can have a phase 2 that tries to remove the need to install a Linux dist and use FreeBSD binaries in an emulation mode but that's more difficult than you think and really is not worth even trying until you've got a reference platform based on running an actual Linux dist. Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Feb 4 08:16:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08260 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:16:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles233.castles.com [208.214.165.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08254 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:16:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15011; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:11:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902041611.IAA15011@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Thomas Stephens cc: Mike Smith , Marcel Moolenaar , emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc libs) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 01:37:50 PST." <199902040937.JAA23695@stephens.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 08:11:48 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Mike Smith wrote: > > > >Now the downsides to using the FreeBSD RPM: > > > > - it's not installed in /bin. That's where RedHat puts it, and it's > > where anything that interacts with the RedHat package database wants > > it. (eg. The IBM DB2 installer). > > - its databases don't end up in the canonical place (because that > > would be stupid on FreeBSD). > > - it doesn't run in Linux compataility mode, so it won't see things in > > the /compat/linux tree, nor will it install things there. > > I think most of these problems could be solved with a script, such as > the `linux-rpm' one used by NetBSD's linux_SuSE port. It could be > symlinked to /compat/linux/bin/rpm. Please tell me how this script will arrange for the FreeBSD RPM binary to run in "linux space". Then continue to elaborate how it will guarantee that our RPM port is synched exactly to the quirks of the particular RPM version that comes with a given RedHat release. There are also problems with the way that RPM parses its arguments which would force the script to be quite elegant in its handling of arguments. Believe me, it's _much_ easier just to run the goddamn Linux binary. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Feb 4 09:38:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA21602 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:38:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.euronet.nl (gaia.euronet.nl [194.134.0.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA21596 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:38:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcel@scc.nl) Received: from scones.sup.scc.nl (i332.ztm.euronet.nl [194.134.67.93]) by gaia.euronet.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20011 from for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:38:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from scc.nl (scones.sup.scc.nl [192.168.2.4]) by scones.sup.scc.nl (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA21313 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:38:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marcel@scc.nl) Message-ID: <36B9DB1E.786D3F45@scc.nl> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:38:38 +0100 From: Marcel Moolenaar Organization: SCC vof X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux collections [for paul@originative.co.uk] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Paul, My reply to you bounced. I know you must read this mailing list, so I took the liberty to post it here. If you were asking yourself why nobody ever answers you, this is the reason why :-) -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Mail Delivery failed: returning to sender. Date: Thu, 4 Feb 99 16:47:27 GMT From: root@punt-1.mail.demon.net To: marcel@scc.nl This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. A message that you sent could not be delivered to all of its recipients. The following address(es) failed: originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]: RSET 250 Resetting MAIL FROM: 250 marcel@scc.nl....Sender OK RCPT TO: 550 Unable to relay for paul@originative.co.uk ----- Original Message Follows ------ Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for paul@originative.co.uk id 918146566:10:10080:13; Thu, 04 Feb 99 16:42:46 GMT Received: from gaia.euronet.nl ([194.134.0.10]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1114841; 4 Feb 99 16:42 GMT Received: from scones.sup.scc.nl (i352.ztm.euronet.nl [194.134.67.113]) by gaia.euronet.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21248 from for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:42:01 +0100 (MET) Received: from scc.nl (scones.sup.scc.nl [192.168.2.4]) by scones.sup.scc.nl (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA18988 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:25:36 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marcel@scc.nl) Sender: marcel@scc.nl Message-ID: <36B9CA00.FC6AC0CE@scc.nl> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 17:25:36 +0100 From: Marcel Moolenaar Organization: SCC vof X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paul@originative.co.uk Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc libs) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit paul@originative.co.uk wrote: > > > My ps(1) port uses -lkvm. Other ports may need sysctl. In > > short they have to > > be FreeBSD binaries emulating the behaviour of Linux binaries. > > > > I think that's a foolish road to go down. You should use actual Linux > binaries installed under /compat/linux and make sure the kernel emulation > support is good enough to run any arbitrary linux binary. I don't think it's a foolish road to go down to. I think it's just one of the paths leading to full emulation (if that's at all possible). It's more difficult for the emulator to be able to emulate devices and filesystems than it is to port a tool in such a way that its functionality is emulated. In any case it *is* emulation, only on different levels. marcel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Feb 4 12:02:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12126 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:02:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stephens.ml.org (cm2081634025.ponderosa.ispchannel.com [208.163.40.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12113 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:02:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tas@stephens.ml.org) Received: from stephens.ml.org (localhost.loc [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by stephens.ml.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA29725; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:48:20 GMT (envelope-from tas@stephens.ml.org) Message-Id: <199902041948.TAA29725@stephens.ml.org> To: Mike Smith cc: Thomas Stephens , Marcel Moolenaar , emulation@FreeBSD.ORG From: Thomas Stephens Subject: Re: Linux collections (was: Linux devel doesn't work with glibc libs) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 08:11:48 PST." <199902041611.IAA15011@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:48:19 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote: >> >> I think most of these problems could be solved with a script, such as >> the `linux-rpm' one used by NetBSD's linux_SuSE port. It could be >> symlinked to /compat/linux/bin/rpm. > >Please tell me how this script will arrange for the FreeBSD RPM binary >to run in "linux space". It doesn't run it `Linux space', it just runs rpm with `--root /compat/linux' (or whatever). It seems to work, but I certainly don't object to using a Linux binary (saves porting RPM as well). >Then continue to elaborate how it will guarantee that our RPM port is >synched exactly to the quirks of the particular RPM version that comes >with a given RedHat release. > >There are also problems with the way that RPM parses its arguments >which would force the script to be quite elegant in its handling of >arguments. > >Believe me, it's _much_ easier just to run the goddamn Linux binary. I believe you. :-) Thomas Stephens tas@altavista.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Feb 4 13:44:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25457 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:44:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25441 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:44:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from loewis@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from rubel.cs.tu-berlin.de (loewis@rubel.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.20.46]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA17981; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:37:17 +0100 (MET) From: "Martin v.Loewis" Received: (from loewis@localhost) by rubel.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.1/8.9.0) id WAA05580; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:37:14 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902042137.WAA05580@rubel.cs.tu-berlin.de> Subject: Re: WIN32 development, cygwin32, and wine To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:37:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901312223.RAA22965@hda.hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Jan 31, 99 05:23:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Can one cross-develop for WIN32 using Cygwin32 and the Tk Windows > stuff and then do preliminary testing under Wine? Since all the > pieces come from the open source community it should be possible. > Poking around on the Cygnus web site didn't uncover any obvious > leads. This should be possible; we are using a cross-compiler for win32 on Solaris 2.5.1. Please be aware of the number of Win32 targets: You could target cygwin32, but this requires all your stuff to use cygwin.dll. You could also target mingw32 (minimal GNU-win32). You get all the kernel,user,gdi stuff plus linkage to a MS C library (which doesn't have fork and pipe, but at least stdio). If you do so, you better choose msvcrt4; crtdll.dll has a number of bugs. Also note that binutils doesn't work well with MS import libraries; you'd have to cross-compile everything (including Tcl). Hope this helps, Martin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Feb 4 17:50:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01218 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:50:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (port37.prairietech.net [208.141.230.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01210 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:50:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id TAA46658; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:50:35 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from alk) From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:50:34 -0600 (CST) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: linux.8 References: <14009.18708.573160.241150@avalon.east> <199902040747.SAA00549@atdot.dotat.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14010.20051.565140.790121@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Here's my attempt to explain linux-space. Please correct/expand/comment. .\" .\" Copyright (c) 1997 .\" The FreeBSD Project. All rights reserved. .\" .\" Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without .\" modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions .\" are met: .\" 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright .\" notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. .\" 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright .\" notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the .\" documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. .\" .\" THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE DEVELOPERS ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESS OR .\" IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES .\" OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. .\" IN NO EVENT SHALL THE DEVELOPERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, .\" INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT .\" NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, .\" DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY .\" THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT .\" (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF .\" THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. .\" .\" $Id: linux.8,v 1.3 1997/02/22 12:48:26 peter Exp $ .\" .Dd January 9, 1997 .Dt LINUX 8 .Os FreeBSD .Sh NAME .Nm linux .Nd load the Linux emulator kernel module .Sh SYNOPSIS .Nm linux .Sh DESCRIPTION The .Nm utility loads the Linux emulator kernel module. .Pp The Linux emulator kernel module enables the execution of ELF executables of the binary type "Linux" and employing Linux system call semantics. The filesystem view provided to such executables differs from that provided to native FreeBSD executables, whether a.out, elf (unbranded), or elf (branded "FreeBSD"). When a Linux ABI executable attempts to change to a directory relative to / which exits relative to /compat/linux (or the directory to which /compat/linux is linked, if it is a soft link), the version under /compat/linux becomes the current working directory. The directories, mounts, or links intervening between / and /compat/linux are not part of the current path, so that changing directories to .. from the Linux instance of /usr, namely /compat/linux/usr, changes directories to /, and not to /compat/linux. Attempting to .Xr exec 2 a file follows similar rules of shadowing, with the contents of /compat/linux/usr/bin, for example, superceding the contents of /usr/bin. .Xr open 2 and .Xr getdirentries 2 do not, however, perform such shadowing. .Sh FILES .Bl -tag -width /lkm/linux_mod.o .It Pa /lkm/linux_mod.o Linux emulator loadable kernel module. .Sh SEE ALSO .Xr lkm 4 , .Xr modload 8 , .Xr brandelf 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Feb 5 02:03:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA23821 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 02:03:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.euronet.nl (gaia.euronet.nl [194.134.0.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA23816 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 02:02:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcel@scc.nl) Received: from scones.sup.scc.nl (i337.ztm.euronet.nl [194.134.67.98]) by gaia.euronet.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24796; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:02:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from scc.nl (scones.sup.scc.nl [192.168.2.4]) by scones.sup.scc.nl (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA87175; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:02:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marcel@scc.nl) Message-ID: <36BAC1CB.F4C1B480@scc.nl> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 11:02:51 +0100 From: Marcel Moolenaar Organization: SCC vof X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: alk@pobox.com, freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linux.8 References: <14009.18708.573160.241150@avalon.east> <14010.20051.565140.790121@avalon.east> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tony Kimball wrote: > > Here's my attempt to explain linux-space. Please correct/expand/comment. > > When a Linux ABI executable attempts to change to a directory relative > to / which exits relative to /compat/linux (or the directory to which ^^^^^ typo > /compat/linux is linked, if it is a soft link), the version under > /compat/linux becomes the current working directory. The directories, > mounts, or links intervening between / and /compat/linux are not part > of the current path, so that changing directories to .. from the Linux > instance of /usr, namely /compat/linux/usr, changes directories to /, > and not to /compat/linux. This seems very odd. Are you sure? If that is the case, then there is definitely something wrong with the definition of overlaying :-) > > Attempting to > .Xr exec 2 > a file follows > similar rules of shadowing, with the contents of > /compat/linux/usr/bin, for example, superceding the contents of > /usr/bin. > .Xr open 2 > and > .Xr getdirentries 2 > do not, however, perform such shadowing. Again, are you sure? If that is the current behaviour, then your manpage is correct and I should stop complaining. But I sure would like to know what the reason is. > > .Sh FILES > .Bl -tag -width /lkm/linux_mod.o > .It Pa /lkm/linux_mod.o > Linux emulator loadable kernel module. > .Sh SEE ALSO > .Xr lkm 4 , > .Xr modload 8 , > .Xr brandelf 1 You may want to refer to kld modules. instead of lkm modules. If the manpage is correct wrt the implementation, could anyone explain to me why it is implemented the way it is. I see unnecessary inconsistencies here... marcel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-emulation Sat Feb 6 17:42:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19296 for freebsd-emulation-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:42:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pagesz.net (nina.pagesz.net [208.194.157.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19278 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:42:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@pagesz.net) Received: from stealth.dummynet. (juana-7.pagesz.net [208.213.126.7]) by pagesz.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01986; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:42:34 -0500 Received: (from rhh@localhost) by stealth.dummynet. (8.9.1/8.8.8) id UAA00148; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:43:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rhh) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:43:10 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: Marcel Moolenaar Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: XessLite4 Spreadsheet - Problem on 3.0-RELEASE Message-ID: <19990206204310.A29695@pagesz.net> References: <19990116102334.A5244@pagesz.net> <36A1BC26.F222F5B3@scc.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <36A1BC26.F222F5B3@scc.nl>; from Marcel Moolenaar on Sun, Jan 17, 1999 at 11:32:06AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Marcel Moolenaar: |Randall Hopper wrote: |> |> This is a spreadsheet I've heard is pretty good. Only problem is that |>there is only a Linux version. So I thought I'd try it with our LINUX |>emulation. |> |> Here's what I see. On FreeBSD w/ ktrace: |> |> 5167 xslite4 NAMI "/compat/linux/proc/version" |> 5167 xslite4 NAMI "/compat/linux" |> 5167 xslite4 NAMI "/compat/linux/proc/version" |> 5167 xslite4 RET obs_vtimes 0 |> 5167 xslite4 CALL write(0x2,0xefbfc70c,0x4c) |> 5167 xslite4 GIO fd 2 wrote 76 bytes |> "Oops ... cannot find CPU information. |> Please contact AIS technical support. ... |> I've created /compat/linux/proc/{version,cpuinfo} with copies of these |> files from a Linux box that Xesslite4 runs on, but no success. | |At what point does it fail when you do have the files? Sorry for the delay responding. It fails at pretty much the same place as without them. The tail of the output is the same (except for a few bytes in the read() GIOs, except that this line is added: 29574 xslite4 RET obs_vtimes JUSTRETURN The tail of the ktrace output attached below. "<" is with them. ">" is without them. Randall 3202,3215c3249,3261 < 29423 xslite4 RET write 16/0x10 < 29423 xslite4 CALL read(0x3,0xefbfcfb0,0x20) < 29423 xslite4 GIO fd 3 read 32 bytes < "\^As\\\0\0\0\0\0DQDQ\M^?\M^?\0\0\M^_R\0\0\^A\0\0\0\^V\0\0\0\M-\\M-QA\b" < 29423 xslite4 RET read 32/0x20 < 29423 xslite4 CALL ktrace(0x82d2000) < 29423 xslite4 RET ktrace 137175040/0x82d2000 < 29423 xslite4 CALL obs_vtimes(0x8256036,0xefbfd09c) < 29423 xslite4 NAMI "/compat/linux/proc/version" < 29423 xslite4 NAMI "/compat/linux" < 29423 xslite4 NAMI "/compat/linux/proc/version" < 29423 xslite4 RET obs_vtimes 0 < 29423 xslite4 CALL write(0x2,0xefbfc72c,0x4c) < 29423 xslite4 GIO fd 2 wrote 76 bytes --- > 29574 xslite4 RET write 16/0x10 > 29574 xslite4 CALL read(0x3,0xefbfcfb0,0x20) > 29574 xslite4 GIO fd 3 read 32 bytes > "\^A8\\\0\0\0\0\0DQDQ\M^?\M^?\0\0\M^_R\0\0\^A\0\0\0\^W\0\0\0H\M-SA\b" > 29574 xslite4 RET read 32/0x20 > 29574 xslite4 CALL ktrace(0x82d2000) > 29574 xslite4 RET ktrace 137175040/0x82d2000 > 29574 xslite4 CALL obs_vtimes(0x8256036,0xefbfd09c) > 29574 xslite4 NAMI "/compat/linux/proc/version" > 29574 xslite4 NAMI "/proc/version" > 29574 xslite4 RET obs_vtimes JUSTRETURN > 29574 xslite4 CALL write(0x2,0xefbfc72c,0x4c) > 29574 xslite4 GIO fd 2 wrote 76 bytes 3219,3220c3265,3266 < 29423 xslite4 RET write 76/0x4c < 29423 xslite4 CALL exit(0x1) --- > 29574 xslite4 RET write 76/0x4c > 29574 xslite4 CALL exit(0x1) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-emulation" in the body of the message