From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 00:59:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03380 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:59:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03375 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:59:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m104LO9-000I5qC; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 03:59:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: freebsd@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance) Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <199901231905.UAA21954@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Jan 23, 1999 8: 5:15 pm" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 03:59:25 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd@tomqnx.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Is anyone working on a driver for digital video-conferencing > > camera? I am debating whether to buy a Logitech VC or > > a Kodak DVC 323. It would be great to have support under FreeBSD! > > unless you have other constraints (e.g. want to use this on a laptop > which only has a USB port) I still strongly recommend a standard > (composite-video output) camera and a video capture card. > > The camera costs the same or marginally less than the corresponding > USB unit, the card will cost you more than the 0$ for an embedded > USB port, but you can have it working _now_ and have the bonus of > being able to watch TV, digitize from tapes and select multiple > video sources with a 2$ rotary switch! Thank you, Luigi! Excellent advice. I started looking into it, and discovered that 7.5 fps uncompressed, will fully utilize a USB. Fine, so the good solutions use compression to get 30 fps but that is still at the cost of fully utilizing the USB. Despite the fact that it works, I am lead to believe that it is NOT an ideal application for USB. Lots of things will be using that USB before I throw away my new camera. I will be looking into other possibilities on Monday. Thanks again, Tom P.S. The 'Geneva' solution from Conexant (ex Rockwell) looks interesting. It comes with a digital camera while retaining the ability to accept composite video. Kind of like having your cake and eating it too! No integrated tuner, but that is why God invented old VCRs. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 03:26:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18263 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 03:26:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.oeno.com (ns.oeno.com [194.100.99.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA18202 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 03:26:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from will@ns.oeno.com) Received: (qmail 2135 invoked by uid 1001); 24 Jan 1999 11:26:15 -0000 Date: 24 Jan 1999 11:26:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990124112614.2132.qmail@ns.oeno.com> From: Ville-Pertti Keinonen To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199901222036.MAA56617@apollo.backplane.com> (message from Matthew Dillon on Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:36:57 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: Review and report of linux kernel VM Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The Linux VM system implements all the core features that the > FreeBSD VM system implements, just not as efficiently. Its > use of a page table paradigm to do VM-specific object layering > is really not that bad of an idea. It *does* lock them into a more > ridgid scheme ( for example, the linux scheme starts to break down > when you share huge objects between processes ), but so far they've been > able to implement the same core feature set that we have in our VM system. > Thus, it is not possible to argue that their system is inferior from an > algorithmic standpoint, only from an implementation standpoint and a > flexibility standpoint. I don't think that any working implementation is inherently superior or inferior, it all depends on what you consider important, apparently the Linux folks consider it important to avoid adding extra data structures that appear expensive and/or redundant (given that you have page tables anyhow, considering further objects to hold pages probably results in a gut reaction of "that's wasteful!" in most programmers, if further thought is not given to what advantages there could be) at the cost of requiring the code to do more work or having less scalable algorithms. > We can hardly be proud of our VFS/BIO layering which has been so buggy > these last few years. The types of bugs I'm finding in FreeBSD have VFS/BIO are different from VM, although I'd agree with the recent suggestions that perhaps they shouldn't be. > When I say clean, I mean 'readable, obvious, and functionallty layered'. > I had no trouble following the linux code even going deep into the paging > and VFS subsystems. Following FreeBSD code has been like pulling nails. Sure it's easy to understand, it's simple, but I tend to think that a lot of things are done in the wrong place (in terms of layering), data is accessed in inconsistent ways etc. which is why I wouldn't call it "clean". Finding the places where things are actually done is also often difficult. > It's why we are *still* finding bugs in our VM system, after years of work. > FreeBSD's VM system is definitely more flexible and efficient. Given the > choice, I would much rather keep FreeBSD's VM system. That flexibility > has come at the cost of dirtying up the code considerably, though. What > use is flexibility if every new feature brings half a dozen bugs to light > and creates half a dozen more of its own? I find the FreeBSD VM (and other) code readable and moderately well organized (easier to find specific things than in Linux). It isn't hard to understand the code but it can be hard to understand the system as a whole as long as you don't understand the relationships between vm_objects (or even what a vm_object represents), which are not exactly obvious. In terms of bugs, Linux is probably better off because many of the core subsystems are maintained by their original author. And for simpler algorithms, it's easier for someone to take over a subsystem quickly. Even if you do understand how something works, if you didn't write it (or wrote it a sufficiently long time ago) or haven't studied it thoroughly, it's difficult to keep all of the possible implications of a modification in mind. > Pages under linux *DO* have an identity, but you have to look it up > in the meta objects backing the page tables based on the position of the > page in the page table. They do not implement swap as a paging layer as They do have an identity, but not a unique one (until a swap allocation becomes the identity), and as far as I can tell, given a page, you can't find *any* mappings without a brute-force search. > I don't think COW pages get swapped multiple times, but I could be wrong. > My read is that when a linux process forks, the swap block associates are > shared even for COW pages. The COWed pages are marked read-only and Yes, if it was swapped at fork-time. If not, it takes several scans of different processes to get it out of memory. It doesn't take several actual writes because of the swap cache, so it's not quite as bad as it could be. > split if a write fault occurs. Unless it's writing the same shared > page from different processes to the same swap block over and over again, > that is. It shouldn't have to - I was under the impression that the > swap had a bunch of per-swap-block flags to keep track of the clean/dirty > state, so once one process swaps out a page, the others may scan it but > will not redundantly swap it out. I believe that it has only a reference count to allow the shared state to be paged in with the page. Unlike I thought at first, the swap cache permanently maps relationships between physical pages and swap blocks, so no extra copying is done. > :Additionally, the way FreeBSD does things has better potential for > :concurrency (even though the locks have been ripped out) compared to > :Linux. > I disagree. FreeBSD still must hold locks through pmap changes and those > scan all related processes, just as linux does. The difference is that FreeBSD could, for example, potentially service multiple page faults on a vm_map simultaneously (exclusive locks are required for some of the lower-level layers such as vm_objects and the pmap, but those only require short-term locks). In Mach, the VM system actually did do this. > since FreeBSD can delete page tables, it generally winds up scanning many > FEWER processes to change the pmap state for a page then linux. Linux > must scan/adjust the pmap state for e very process mmap()ing the page > whether or not it is using the page. In FreeBSD in order to scan the pmaps of different processes mapping a page, you should only need to lock pmaps, which are a low-level layer and are (or should be) only locked for short periods of time. Of course my concerns seem weird in the context of FreeBSD/Linux because they include multithreading, fine-grained locking, kernel-mode pre-emption and real-time properties, much of which neither system is likely to implement properly in the near future. > My philosophy is, in general, that (1) one must separate the algorithm > from the implementation and that (2) any algorithm can be cleanly > implemented. If it isn't, it should be rewritten. If the programmer I agree, I just don't agree with your interpretations of what's "clean". And seeing linux called "clean" just seemed so completely opposite to how I see it that I couldn't not comment... The FreeBSD VM code isn't totally clean, either, but I would certainly not say that it is less clean than linux. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 04:57:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA01097 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 04:57:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA01092 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 04:57:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA25980; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:56:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199901241256.NAA25980@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <199901231905.UAA21954@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Jan 23, 1999 8: 5:15 pm" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:56:47 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd@tomqnx.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > Is anyone working on a driver for digital video-conferencing > > camera? I am debating whether to buy a Logitech VC or > > a Kodak DVC 323. It would be great to have support under FreeBSD! > > unless you have other constraints (e.g. want to use this on a laptop > which only has a USB port) I still strongly recommend a standard > (composite-video output) camera and a video capture card. > > The camera costs the same or marginally less than the corresponding > USB unit, the card will cost you more than the 0$ for an embedded > USB port, but you can have it working _now_ and have the bonus of > being able to watch TV, digitize from tapes and select multiple > video sources with a 2$ rotary switch! Do you have any pointers for cheap cameras ?? I just bought a USB color cam for US$60... - Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 05:43:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04325 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 05:43:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA04312 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 05:43:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA23729; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:29:10 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199901241129.MAA23729@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: sos@freebsd.dk (Søren Schmidt) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:29:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd@tomqnx.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901241256.NAA25980@freebsd.dk> from "Søren Schmidt" at Jan 24, 99 01:56:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Do you have any pointers for cheap cameras ?? I just bought a USB > color cam for US$60... ok i cannot beat this kind of things but the cheapest local supplers offer the Sony Z-Cam for 100 Euro (unique analog unit i can find here) and 2-3 different USB models (one is Creative Labs, others i forget the brand) at prices between 90 and 110 Euro -- all inclusive of 20% VAT. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO . EMAIL: luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione HTTP://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 07:35:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14170 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 07:35:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14165 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 07:35:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m104RZL-000I5qC; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:35:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) Subject: RELENG_3 boot failed To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:35:23 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG After a cvsup this AM, the boot process failed when attempting to mount the root partition, with the message: specified device does no match mounted device. I had to change the device specification in /etc/fstab from /dev/da0s2a to /dev/da0a to boot properly. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 08:02:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16933 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 08:02:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from asteroid.svib.ru (asteroid.svib.ru [195.151.166.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16925 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 08:02:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru) Received: from shuttle.svib.ru (root@shuttle.svib.ru [195.151.166.144]) by asteroid.svib.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA00994 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:02:34 +0300 (MSK) Received: from shuttle.svib.ru (tarkhil@minas-tirith.pol.ru [127.0.0.1]) by shuttle.svib.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01131 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:03:19 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from tarkhil@shuttle.svib.ru) Message-Id: <199901241603.TAA01131@shuttle.svib.ru> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru Subject: Strange problem with X X-URL: http://freebsd.svib.ru Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:03:18 +0300 From: Alex Povolotsky Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello! After upgrading (by installing from CD) to 3.0-RELEASE, I've found that some programs fails to run. I.e. [18:56] shuttle:~ > asWedit Warning: locale not supported by C library, locale unchanged X Error of failed request: BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation) Major opcode of failed request: 45 (X_OpenFont) Serial number of failed request: 115 Current serial number in output stream: 116 Building latest XFree86 and installing it over old one didn't help. What should I investigate? What info do I need to trace the problem? I am _REALLY_ green with XFree86, so I need someone's help. I just don't see a point in putting here my XFree86, kernel config, list of shared libraries, MD5 of all files in /usr/X11R6, /etc/master.passwd etc. ;-) Alex. -- Alexander B. Povolotsky [ICQ 18277558] [2:5020/145] [http://freebsd.svib.ru] [tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru] [Urgent messages: 234-9696 ÁÂ.#35442 or tarkhil@pager.express.ru] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 09:30:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25211 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:30:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hawaii.conterra.com (hawaii.conterra.com [209.12.164.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25200 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:30:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from myself@conterra.com) Received: from dmaddox.conterra.com (dmaddox.conterra.com [209.12.169.48]) by hawaii.conterra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22852; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:30:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from myself@localhost) by dmaddox.conterra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id MAA00754; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:30:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from myself) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:30:07 -0500 From: "Donald J . Maddox" To: Tom Torrance at home Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot failed Message-ID: <19990124123006.A709@dmaddox.conterra.com> Reply-To: dmaddox@conterra.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Tom Torrance at home on Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 10:35:23AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 10:35:23AM -0500, Tom Torrance at home wrote: > After a cvsup this AM, the boot process failed when attempting > to mount the root partition, with the message: > specified device does no match mounted device. > > I had to change the device specification in /etc/fstab from > /dev/da0s2a to /dev/da0a to boot properly. Yeah, FWIW, I'm seeing the same thing... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 09:34:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25719 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:34:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hawaii.conterra.com (hawaii.conterra.com [209.12.164.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25711; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:34:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from myself@conterra.com) Received: from dmaddox.conterra.com (dmaddox.conterra.com [209.12.169.48]) by hawaii.conterra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22971; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:34:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from myself@localhost) by dmaddox.conterra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id MAA00779; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:34:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from myself) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:34:30 -0500 From: "Donald J . Maddox" To: Tom Torrance at home Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot failed Message-ID: <19990124123430.B709@dmaddox.conterra.com> Reply-To: dmaddox@conterra.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Tom Torrance at home on Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 10:35:23AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 10:35:23AM -0500, Tom Torrance at home wrote: > After a cvsup this AM, the boot process failed when attempting > to mount the root partition, with the message: > specified device does no match mounted device. > > I had to change the device specification in /etc/fstab from > /dev/da0s2a to /dev/da0a to boot properly. Whoops... I just noted that you're using RELENG_3, but I'm getting the same problem on: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #0: Sun Jan 24 00:23:52 EST 1999 so I'm cc'ing -current on this reply... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 09:53:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27778 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:53:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [194.77.0.18] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27769 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:53:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA12791 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:52:58 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id SAA74462 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:52:45 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:52:44 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: How to strip an ELF kernel ? Message-ID: <19990124185244.A70682@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi ! If I want to produce a debugging kernel the good handbook tells me to do something like this: config -g kconfigfile cd ../../compile/kconfigfile make depend all cp kernel kernel.debug strip -d kernel make install The -d option vanished in an ELF world ... What method is preferred now to get rid of debugging stuff, but still be able to boot the kernel ?! Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 09:59:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28680 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:59:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28675 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:59:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id JAA03845; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:59:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:59:13 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901241759.JAA03845@apollo.backplane.com> To: Andreas Klemm Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to strip an ELF kernel ? References: <19990124185244.A70682@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Hi ! : :If I want to produce a debugging kernel the good handbook :tells me to do something like this: : config -g kconfigfile : cd ../../compile/kconfigfile : make depend all : cp kernel kernel.debug : strip -d kernel : make install : :The -d option vanished in an ELF world ... What method is :preferred now to get rid of debugging stuff, but still be able :to boot the kernel ?! : : Andreas /// :-- :Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas Type 'strip' without any arguments. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 10:31:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02228 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:31:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02223 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:31:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id TAA20472 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:31:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 31F211513; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:07:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:07:04 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to strip an ELF kernel ? Message-ID: <19990124190704.A61578@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990124185244.A70682@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <19990124185244.A70682@titan.klemm.gtn.com>; from Andreas Klemm on Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 06:52:44PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4994 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Andreas Klemm: > strip -d kernel Replace "-d" with "-g". -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #69: Mon Jan 18 02:02:12 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 12:56:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17912 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:56:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17907 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:56:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA15782; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:56:07 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id VAA87100; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:29:06 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:29:05 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Andreas Klemm , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to strip an ELF kernel ? Message-ID: <19990124212904.A86183@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990124185244.A70682@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <199901241759.JAA03845@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199901241759.JAA03845@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 09:59:13AM -0800 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 09:59:13AM -0800, Matthew Dillon wrote: > Type 'strip' without any arguments. Ok, thanks. -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 13:17:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20304 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:17:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from snake.supranet.net (snake.supranet.net [205.164.160.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20298 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:17:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john@arnie.jfive.com) Received: from snake.supranet.net (snake.supranet.net [205.164.160.19]) by snake.supranet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA02875 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:16:50 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from john@arnie.jfive.com) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:16:50 -0600 (CST) From: John Heyer X-Sender: john@snake.supranet.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Goofy telnetd thing in 3.0 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ferret ~ % telnet ftp.jfive.com Trying 146.151.48.235... Connected to fisticuffs.jfive.com. Escape character is '^]'. / (fisticuffs.jfive.com) (ttyp0) login: I must have done something to get rid of "FreeBSD / i386" but I forget what it was. Any ideas? The text does show up on the console login. I'm running telnetd -U and that's it. Sorry if I accidentially sent a blank meessage before. -- "Your illogical approach ... does have its advantages." -- Spock, after being Checkmated by Kirk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 13:18:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20447 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:18:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from snake.supranet.net (snake.supranet.net [205.164.160.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20442 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:18:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john@snake.supranet.net) Received: from snake.supranet.net (snake.supranet.net [205.164.160.19]) by snake.supranet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA02770 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:12:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from john@snake.supranet.net) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:12:23 -0600 (CST) From: John Heyer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -- "Your illogical approach ... does have its advantages." -- Spock, after being Checkmated by Kirk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 13:25:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20936 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:25:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20931 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:25:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m104X1Q-000I5qC; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:24:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: freebsd@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance) Subject: RELENG_3 boot panic To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:24:44 -0500 (EST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Today's fix for the root device problem while booting has blown me out of the water. I have an EDI disk and a scsi disk on my 3,0-stable system. When I attempt to boot, I get: changing root device to da1s2a changing root device to da1a Then the system panics. My root partition is da0s2a. I would appreciate an idea or two as to how I could get this system to boot so that I can apply the eventual fix. I am in much worse shape than I was. Regards, Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 13:27:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21346 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:27:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21335 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:27:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA54537; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:27:17 GMT Message-ID: <36AB9034.FA97AFF4@tdx.co.uk> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:27:16 +0000 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Heyer CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Goofy telnetd thing in 3.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Heyer wrote: > I must have done something to get rid of "FreeBSD / i386" but I > forget what it was. Any ideas? The text does show up on the console > login. I'm running telnetd -U and that's it. > Sorry if I accidentially sent a blank meessage before. Check /etc/gettytab, look for the 'default:\' line... Mine says: ":cb:ce:ck:lc:fd#1000:im=\r\n%s/%m (%h) (%t)\r\n\r\n:sp#1200:" - that's the line that sets what's displayed on Telnets... I quite often strip out the bits myself, but there again - obscurity is no security... -Kp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 13:30:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21745 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:30:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles340.castles.com [208.214.167.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21734 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:30:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05167; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:26:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901242126.NAA05167@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot panic In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:24:44 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:26:26 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Today's fix for the root device problem while booting has > blown me out of the water. > > I have an EDI disk and a scsi disk on my 3,0-stable system. > When I attempt to boot, I get: > changing root device to da1s2a > changing root device to da1a > > Then the system panics. > My root partition is da0s2a. > > I would appreciate an idea or two as to how I could get this system to boot > so that I can apply the eventual fix. I am in much worse shape than I was. Set root_disk_unit to 0, as documented in the commit messagages as well as elsewhere. You may previously have had to set 'num_ide_disks' to 1, which would also have worked. Please pay attention. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 13:32:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22040 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:32:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from WEBBSD1.turnaround.com.au (webbsd1.turnaround.com.au [203.39.138.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22035 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from J_Shevland@TurnAround.com.au) Received: from tasshev (dhcp110.turnaround.com.au [192.168.1.110] (may be forged)) by WEBBSD1.turnaround.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA14129; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:33:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from J_Shevland@TurnAround.com.au) Reply-To: From: "Joe Shevland" To: "Karl Pielorz" , "John Heyer" Cc: Subject: RE: Goofy telnetd thing in 3.0 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:28:59 +1100 Message-ID: <000101be47e0$8dfe4410$6e01a8c0@tasshev.turnaround.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <36AB9034.FA97AFF4@tdx.co.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yip, I installed 3.0-RELEASE last night and I'm getting the same problem... I haven't had time to modify gettytab yet. Thing is, I receive the blank one when I telnet across the network, and I receive the full one when I log in from the console. At least I haven't intentionally altered gettytab, so Im not sure... Regards. ---------------------|============================= Joe Shevland | TurnAround Solutions Principal Consultant | Hobart, Australia No unsolicited email | Voice (03) 6224 9146 | http://www.TurnAround.com.au ---------------------|============================= > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Karl Pielorz > Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 8:27 AM > To: John Heyer > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Goofy telnetd thing in 3.0 > > > > > John Heyer wrote: > > > I must have done something to get rid of "FreeBSD / i386" but I > > forget what it was. Any ideas? The text does show up on the console > > login. I'm running telnetd -U and that's it. > > Sorry if I accidentially sent a blank meessage before. > > Check /etc/gettytab, look for the 'default:\' line... > > Mine says: ":cb:ce:ck:lc:fd#1000:im=\r\n%s/%m (%h) > (%t)\r\n\r\n:sp#1200:" - > that's the line that sets what's displayed on Telnets... > > I quite often strip out the bits myself, but there again - obscurity is no > security... > > -Kp > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 13:52:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23114 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:52:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23104 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:52:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2/Netplex) with ESMTP id FAA03675; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:52:10 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199901242152.FAA03675@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: J_Shevland@TurnAround.com.au cc: "Karl Pielorz" , "John Heyer" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Goofy telnetd thing in 3.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:28:59 +1100." <000101be47e0$8dfe4410$6e01a8c0@tasshev.turnaround.com.au> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:52:10 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Joe Shevland" wrote: > Yip, I installed 3.0-RELEASE last night and I'm getting the > same problem... I haven't had time to modify gettytab yet. > > Thing is, I receive the blank one when I telnet across the > network, and I receive the full one when I log in from > the console. At least I haven't intentionally altered > gettytab, so Im not sure... > > Regards. It's because the kerberized telnetd has fallen behind the normal telnetd and hasn't had the uname() hooks installed into it. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 14:02:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24089 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:02:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24082 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:02:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2/Netplex) with ESMTP id GAA03744; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:02:29 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199901242202.GAA03744@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Andreas Klemm cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to strip an ELF kernel ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:52:44 +0100." <19990124185244.A70682@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:02:29 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andreas Klemm wrote: > Hi ! > > If I want to produce a debugging kernel the good handbook > tells me to do something like this: > config -g kconfigfile > cd ../../compile/kconfigfile > make depend all > cp kernel kernel.debug > strip -d kernel > make install > > The -d option vanished in an ELF world ... What method is > preferred now to get rid of debugging stuff, but still be able > to boot the kernel ?! In theory, you can just 'strip' the kernel entirely and get rid of all debugging symbols. However, the libkvm doesn't know how to look up the symbols from the kernel linker yet, so it still depends on kvm_mkdb unfortunately. This is on the todo list. I believe strip -g is what you want. > Andreas /// Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 17:45:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23905 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:45:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23895 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:45:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26421; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:45:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:45:14 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199901250145.RAA26421@kithrup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <199901241256.NAA25980.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@freebsd.dk> References: <199901231905.UAA21954@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Jan 23, 1999 8: 5:15 pm" Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199901241256.NAA25980.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@freebsd.dk> you write: >Do you have any pointers for cheap cameras ?? I just bought a USB >color cam for US$60... I have a project I would like to do (and write an article about for the freebsd newsletter) for which I need a camera. I could use my digital camera, since I have software to deal with that -- but the camera uses flash memory to store the pictures, and I don't want to write to it that often (it is non-replaceable, so the camera has to last the 2-3 years I expect it to take for the next generation to drop to the price I paid for this one). The cheapest NTSC-out camera I know of would be a refurbished Vivitar digital camera from Fry's, which goes on sale periodically for $80-$99; however, the video capture board would be another $100 or so. Contrast this with the cost of a Logitech QuickCam Pro -- $149. Or the cost of a Connectix QuikCam VC -- under $70, I believe. I had hoped to get a camera through Jordan and the FreeBSD project (there is apparantly a connectix quikcam, colour and B&W, floating around, but I've given up on them coming my way). If there is support for USB color cam's, I'd dearly love to know about it... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 20:15:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10172 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:15:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [209.81.9.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA10163 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:15:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@monk.via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12831 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:15:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe) From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199901250415.UAA12831@monk.via.net> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:15:38 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 3.0 stable fails to compile. X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.1-970608-bsdi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've just installed 3.0-RELEASE. I'm now trying to upgrade to -stable. make buildworld stops at : ===> rtld . . . cc -O -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld/.. -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld/../i386 -fpic -fno-function-cse -DRTLD -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -nostdlib -Wl,-Bshareable -Wl,-Bsymbolic -Wl,-assert -Wl,nosymbolic -o ld.so mdprologue.o rtld.o malloc.o shlib.o md.o support.o sbrk.o -lc_pic -lgcc_pic mdprologue.o(.text+0x22): undefined reference to `_rtld' mdprologue.o(.text+0x40): undefined reference to `_binder' rtld.o: In function `reloc_map': rtld.o(.text+0xe99): undefined reference to `binder_entry' *** Error code 1 Help! Am I doing something wrong? Thanks, Joe Joe McGuckin ViaNet Communications 1235 Pear Ave, Suite 107 Mountain View, CA 90403 Phone: 650-969-2203 Cell: 415-710-4894 Fax: 650-969-2124 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 23:55:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06174 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:55:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06169 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:55:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA28096; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:55:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199901250755.IAA28096@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <199901250145.RAA26421@kithrup.com> from Sean Eric Fagan at "Jan 24, 1999 5:45:14 pm" To: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:55:05 +0100 (CET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > In article <199901241256.NAA25980.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@freebsd.dk> you write: > >Do you have any pointers for cheap cameras ?? I just bought a USB > >color cam for US$60... > > I had hoped to get a camera through Jordan and the FreeBSD project (there is > apparantly a connectix quikcam, colour and B&W, floating around, but I've > given up on them coming my way). If there is support for USB color cam's, I'd > dearly love to know about it... Me too!! Actually I bought the USB cam to try to write a driver for it, for my purpose ~5frames/sec would be more than sufficient, and that should be feasible with an USB cam using noncompressed frames. The tricky part is to find out how to talk the camera into doing it :) I'll have to finsih the USB keyboard thing first though.... -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 24 23:57:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06366 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:57:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06361 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:57:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m104gtX-000I1gC; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:57:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: freebsd@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance) Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot panic In-Reply-To: <199901242126.NAA05167@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jan 24, 1999 1:26:26 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:57:14 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd@tomqnx.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Set root_disk_unit to 0, as documented in the commit messagages as well > as elsewhere. You may previously have had to set 'num_ide_disks' to 1, > which would also have worked. > > Please pay attention. 8) Thanks Mike - set root_disk_unit=0 worked. The last change broke the set num_ide_disks=1 which had worked, but no longer does... Regards, Tom (paying strict attention) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 00:43:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12128 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:43:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA12120 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:43:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 3592 invoked from network); 25 Jan 1999 08:43:13 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 1999 08:43:13 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA00649; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:43:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901250843.DAA00649@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Review and report of linux kernel VM In-Reply-To: <8690evpkc4.fsf@not.oeno.com> from Ville-Pertti Keinonen at "Jan 22, 99 02:23:39 pm" To: will@iki.fi (Ville-Pertti Keinonen) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:43:12 -0500 (EST) Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ville-Pertti Keinonen said: > > > Linux demarks interrupts from supervisor code much better then we do. > > You seem to consider simpler to mean cleaner/better. Although in this > case, I'd agree that much of the complexity of FreeBSD is unnecessary. > I agree with you. Additionally, my observation (after >20yrs of experience) is that a lack of understanding sometimes prejudices an individual about a given codebase. With alot of experience with a given code technology, one can also pick out the various algorithms and schemes used in a (for example VM system), and understand it rapidly also. So, it would likely take someone who has not only supported and minimally modified a VM system, but actually created an advanced one to come up to speed quickly on FreeBSD. The good thing about such an individual is that the code would really improve, but the bad thing is that it would change significantly, and might destabilize a little bit, like it used to :-). Often, I would "see a picture" as to how the code should work, and engineer fairly good solutions to various VM issues, but my coding and programming skills werent' always perfect. I am trying to support the new VM maintainers as much as reasonable (trying to help, for both altruistic and selfish reasons), but eventually, they will be able to comfortably fly on their own. From my observation, it still seems that there is a learning curve involved, but the new people seem to be very aggressively traversing that curve. The method of working from the outside- in is good, because it allows the proper testing of components (like the swap pager), and slowly develop and understanding of the design ramifications. For example, there is a design choice in the new swap pager that I am not sure about, and have reminded the new developer that maybe the code needs to be evaluated because of the change. That doesn't necessarily mean that the change is BAD, but does mean that since the code previously worked pretty well, and there are improvements in the new code, but there might also be some regressions. It is important to make sure that the regressions don't add up along with the improvements :-). The FreeBSD VM is generally layered fairly well, except for the shortcuts in management of collapsing objects. There are also some problems with the VFS interface to the VM code (and where the most advantage could be gained by improving that interface.) I originally bypassed the layering for files/raw devices, and found that to be very (extremely) evil -- so the vnode pager now has both default capabilites, and a layered capability. There are some complexities associated with freeing pages at interrupt time (generally tricky in FreeBSD), and creating map entries at interrupt time (you have to use kmem_map for that, because it is protected from interrupts.) The complications with freeing pages at interrupt time are one set of reasons for still needing a free queue -- the cache queue consists of pages that are not free, and in order to allocation pages anew from the cache queue, pages have to be logically freed. A recent discussion between a new VM maintainer and myself ensued regarding the complexities of the cache queue... Most of those complexities are associated with the cache queue having attributes of both the free queue AND the queues with pages still valid. However, without the cache queue, suboptimal page management algorithms would become much more apparent (maybe the cache queue should be disabled for testing purposes? :-)). The worst evil in all of this is that it is impossible to maintain coherency in the VFS layering scheme (as it is today), without lots of calls between layers, and great inefficiency (imagine handling mapped pages at each layer in the VFS hierarchy, and maintain mutual coherency and coherency with normal file I/O!!! :-(). The only scheme that I know of that would be sane would be a DSM style abstraction, with an implementation that shortcircuts the abstraction when it doesn't break things (and gains the most efficiency.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 00:47:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12655 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:47:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.clarityconnect.com (mail2.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA12642 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:46:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilson@ensim.com) Received: from ensim.com (209.150.239.146) by mail2.clarityconnect.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:46:47 -0500 Message-ID: <36AC3072.E5EEF339@ensim.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:50:58 -0500 From: Xun Wilson Huang Organization: Ensim Corp. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: need help with linker_set Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have been reading codes from the FreeBSD kernel and discover this neat thing "linker_set". As I understand, linker_set allows different modules/subsystems/files to put data into a "set" by inserting an assembly directive .stabs in the c code. At the linking stage, the linker puts all these set elements into an array, and one can write code to enumerate this array of set elements. ( Am I getting this right?) SYSCTL, SYSINIT, DOMAINSET, etc. all use this trick. I tried similar things in user space on FreeBSD and it also works. I have been digging for something similar to this on other platform and sadly, I can't find anything. I am wondering if any BSD guru here can point me to something that leads to a more system independent version of this trick? thanks a million. Xun Wilson Huang To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 01:45:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19311 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:45:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA19295; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:45:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) Received: from brunos-sun.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.185]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5/S-4.0) with SMTP; id JAA23117; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:44:28 GMT Received: locally by brunos-sun (SMI-8.6/QMW-client-3.2b); poster "scott"; id JAA29832; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:42:04 GMT Message-ID: <19990125094203.D25456@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:42:03 +0000 From: Scott Mitchell To: Jason George , "Thomas D. Simes" , Robert Withrow , Victor Salaman , Andreas Klemm , Emil Mikhles , Rogier Mulhuijzen , Isidor Kouvelas , Lorenzo Vicisano , Adam Furman , "Douglas K. Rand" , Kevin Sheehan , Gustavo Lozano Ibarra , Sean Shilton , Gildas PERROT , Thomas Runge , "David O'Byrne" Cc: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ANNOUNCE: Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm pleased to announce the first test release of my FreeBSD driver for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet cards. Those of you receiving this mail directly rather than through -mobile have already expressed interest in testing and debugging the driver -- many thanks in advance! Please let me know if you want to be added/removed to/from the mailing list. The driver can be obtained from the URL: http://www.dcs.qmw.ac.uk/~scott/xe-drv/xe-drv.tar.gz This archive contains the two source files (if_xe.c and if_xereg.h) and a very brief set of installation instructions. I'm assuming that people are familiar with the mechanics of building new kernels and configuring PCMCIA cards under FreeBSD. Let me know if you need any help. The driver is only known to run under 3.0-RELEASE, but may well compile on other versions -- I don't know. It aims to support the following cards: CE2, CEM28, CEM33, CE3 and CEM56, and certain Intel and Compaq cards using the Xircom hardware. All the usual disclaimers apply: this code may cause your machine to sprout wings and fly out of your office window; you use it at your own risk. It (more or less) works for me on my particular setup, but YMMV. I won't have time to do much work on the code before Wednesday (thesis writing takes priority :), so that should give you all time to try it out and let me know what does (or more likely doesn't) work. Cheers, Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID |"If I can't have my coffee, I'm just | 0x54B171B9 | like a dried up piece of roast goat" QMW College, London, UK | 0xAA775B8B | -- J. S. Bach. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 01:56:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA20234 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:56:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA20194 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:55:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 104iD7-0003Vb-00; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:21:33 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Jeremy Lea cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clobbering includes during ``make world'' In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:21:43 +0200." <19990123172141.A33428@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:21:33 +0200 Message-ID: <13490.917256093@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:21:43 +0200, Jeremy Lea wrote: > > make -DCLOBBER includes > > It would be nice if you could extend this to work with the perl modules. Actually, it's quite simple. Both the base Perl5 installation and the install targets for most CPAN modules make use of Perl5's Install.pm module, all you have to do is hack contrib/perl5/lib/ExtUtils/Install.pm, which is what I did. The hack isn't avaliable for public consumption, because I've yet to teach it to honour a -DCLOOBER_PERL knob during ``make world''. I'll report back when that's ironed out. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 03:16:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA29571 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:16:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA29566 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:16:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id UAA16423; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:16:16 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36AC4879.A8246685@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:33:29 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Torrance CC: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot panic References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tom Torrance wrote: > > The last change broke the set num_ide_disks=1 which had worked, but > no longer does... It was broken for a few hours. Num_ide_disks should be working again, for those which relied on it on the past (like you :). Though I get the feeling that everyone who used num_ide_disks ended up suping the broken version of loader... Stay with the new mechanism, though. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com If you sell your soul to the Devil and all you get is an MCSE from it, you haven't gotten market rate. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 05:44:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16087 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:44:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA16002; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:43:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id PAA02242; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:43:39 +0200 (EET) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:43:39 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: peter@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: ASAP: Makefile.upgrade broken in RELENG_3!!! Message-ID: <19990125154339.A22476@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: peter@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Hackers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! What's a hell? Index: Makefile.upgrade =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/FreeBSD-CVS/src/Makefile.upgrade,v retrieving revision 1.9 retrieving revision 1.9.2.1 diff -r1.9 -r1.9.2.1 2c2 < # $Id: Makefile.upgrade,v 1.9 1999/01/07 07:20:41 peter Exp $ --- > # $Id: Makefile.upgrade,v 1.9.2.1 1999/01/25 01:50:17 peter Exp $ 294c294,295 < @cd ${.CURDIR}/sys/compile/GENERICupgrade; make install --- > @cd ${.CURDIR}/sys/compile/GENERICupgrade; \ > OBJFORMAT=aout make KERNFORMAT=aout depend ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ This should be `install' instead! At the same time, HEAD's commit was OK. Fix it ASAP, please!!! -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 05:45:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16194 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:45:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from net177138.hcv.com (net177138.hcv.com [209.153.177.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA16179 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:45:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matthew@wolfepub.com) Received: from thunder ([10.0.0.12]) by net177138.hcv.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA09165 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:40:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from matthew@wolfepub.com) Message-Id: <4.1.19990125083831.00a274a0@firebat.wolfepub.com> X-Sender: matthew@firebat.wolfepub.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:46:30 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Hagerty Subject: Off topic: samba 2.0 on 3.0-stable, please help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, Sorry for the off-topic post, but I have tried the samba channels for 2 days without any response. Is anyone running samba 2.0 on any version of FreeBSD-3.0? If so, could you please tell me how you got it working? I am having trouble getting samba to recognize valid users either with the UNIX authentication or smbpasswd, neither works. I would prefer to have samba use the UNIX password system. Everything compiles, installs, and the binaries execute okay but I cannot connect with smbclient. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Please email me directly as to not clog hackers any more than I have. Thank you, Matthew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 05:49:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16655 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:49:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.oeno.com (ns.oeno.com [194.100.99.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA16638 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:49:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from will@ns.oeno.com) Received: (qmail 18751 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Jan 1999 13:49:09 -0000 To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Attempt to relicense BSD code under the GPL References: <4.1.19990118092136.0465ede0@mail.lariat.org> From: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Date: 25 Jan 1999 15:47:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: brett@lariat.org's message of "18 Jan 1999 18:42:29 +0200" Message-ID: <867lubpipj.fsf@not.oeno.com> Lines: 41 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) writes: > This is not only absurd (because the GPL *is* a barrier to OS > R&D) but also illegal, because it conflicts with the licensing > provisions of the BSD code which has been incorporated into the > package. They even have code in the oskit that has much more restrictive licensing terms (than BSD or GPL). However, they do not claim anywhere that the entire oskit is subject to the GPL. I posted a message to the oskit mailing list a while ago where I pointed out their use of conflicting license terms and speculated that this may be valid if the oskit is considered several separate "programs" (libraries, actually), but that any works linking against portions of the oskit with different licenses cannot be distributed as binaries at all. > Those who are concerned about the attempted use of the GPL > (which is anti-business, anti-innovation, and sometimes referred > to as a "viral" or "cult" license) on BSD code should contact Jay The critique is valid even if you don't consider the GPL hostile. It is not a good idea to flame them for a choice of license (a lot of people consider the GPL a good thing and arguments against that are inevitably based on subjective values), only doing so improperly and with questionable legal status. Otherwise you'll very likely be ignored by some people. > Lepreau at lepreau@cs.utah.edu. Kernel authors in particular should > be outraged at the unauthorized and unwarranted GPLing of their code > and should protested what is, essentially, hijacking of their work. I don't think any of the code has been GPL'd, it is simply included in the same tarball. BSD-licensed code can't really be "hijacked", unless somebody claims it to be their own, unlike the GPL the BSD license does *not* prohibit use in projects with different licensing terms. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 06:20:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20675 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:20:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.online.samara.ru (SamaraOnline.customers.samara.net [195.128.128.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20666 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:20:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sa@ns.online.samara.ru) Received: (from sa@localhost) by ns.online.samara.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) id SAA25635 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:21:58 GMT To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: Organization: Cronyx Ltd. From: "SysAdmin" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 18:21:57 +0000 X-Mailer: BML [UNIX Beauty Mail v.1.39] Subject: hooked system call Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG how I can hooked system call in fbsd 2.2.x ? where I can find src of examples ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 08:33:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06408 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:33:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from excalibur.oceanis.net (ns.dotcom.fr [194.133.21.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06399 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:33:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pixel@excalibur.oceanis.net) Received: (from pixel@localhost) by excalibur.oceanis.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11654 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:33:51 GMT From: Emmanuel DELOGET Message-Id: <199901251633.QAA11654@excalibur.oceanis.net> Subject: SNMP devlmp with sysctl To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:33:51 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm sorry to disturb you. This mail was post to freebsd-net (this may be an error, since I did not get any response... but nobody may be instersted). I want to know if a kernel-level SNMP is planned . Notice that I've allready read the discussions about sysctl and SNMP in the mail archives. The things I thought about was not related to this stuff (well, not really related to...). Since SNMP is generally used in statis network elements (nasty things that does not require to be rebuild each day), it may be a good idea to replace the current sysctl tree by a new, SNMP-compliant one. This may need a more evolutive way to specify new sysctl entries (a kind of source code generator could be helpful). I'm currenlty working on this stuff, but I want to know if someone has allready do the same. -- pixel@dotcom.fr ------------------------------------------ DotCom Communication Numerique -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 09:00:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10770 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:00:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp (shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp [133.30.50.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10704 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:59:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from takawata@shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp) Received: from shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA27916 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:51:14 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199901251651.BAA27916@shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Some SMBus Stuffs. Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:51:13 +0900 From: Takanori Watanabe Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The driver for SMBus on Intel PIIX4 Power Management Controller has been commited. Now, I have some examples for SMBus application. It is available at http://www.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp/~takawata/smbus/examples/ . And currently,you have to modify not only your configuration file but also files.i386 and pcisupport.c . The kernel patches are available at http://www.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp/~takawata/smbus/sys/ Please test the codes and give some advices. This device requires IRQ 9 exclusively.To use this, enable ACPI function in BIOS configuration,or PnP mechanism assigns conflicted IRQ for PnP ISA card. And don't use IRQ 9 for Non-PnP ISA cards. Takanori Watanabe Public Key Key fingerprint = 2C 51 E2 78 2C E1 C5 2D 0F F1 20 A3 11 3A 62 2A To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 13:40:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15643 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:40:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15616 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:40:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id WAA01684 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:40:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id A26A41513; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:27:39 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:27:39 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers Message-ID: <19990125222739.A69713@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199901250145.RAA26421@kithrup.com> <199901250755.IAA28096@freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C199901250755=2EIAA28096=40freebsd=2Edk=3E=3B_from_S=F8?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ren_Schmidt_on_Mon=2C_Jan_25=2C_1999_at_08:55:05AM_+0100?= X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4994 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Søren Schmidt: > I'll have to finsih the USB keyboard thing first though.... Speaking of USB, I guess we don't support USB mouse (does it exist yet ?) ? I'm asking because I'll probably buy a Sony VAIO laptop and if one wants to do without the port extender, one has to either use the internal touchpad or plug an USB mouse... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #69: Mon Jan 18 02:02:12 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 13:55:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18021 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:55:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles253.castles.com [208.214.165.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18012 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:55:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12003; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:51:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901252151.NAA12003@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Ollivier Robert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:27:39 +0100." <19990125222739.A69713@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:51:16 -0800 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA18013 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > According to Søren Schmidt: > > I'll have to finsih the USB keyboard thing first though.... > > Speaking of USB, I guess we don't support USB mouse (does it exist yet ?) ? > I'm asking because I'll probably buy a Sony VAIO laptop and if one wants to > do without the port extender, one has to either use the internal touchpad > or plug an USB mouse... Jan 20 11:37:23 dingo /kernel.usb: ums0: Kensington Mouse-in-a-Box, rev 1.00/1.4 1, addr 2, iclass 3/1 Looks like a USB mouse to me. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 14:19:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21283 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:19:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from reliam.teaser.fr (reliam.teaser.fr [194.51.80.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21261; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:19:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from son@teaser.fr) Received: from teaser.fr (ppp1087-ft.teaser.fr [194.206.156.40]) by reliam.teaser.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA23467; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:18:57 +0100 (MET) Received: (from son@localhost) by teaser.fr (8.9.2/8.9.1) id XAA01493; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:15:14 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from son) Message-ID: <19990125231509.35291@breizh.prism.uvsq.fr> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:15:09 +0100 From: Nicolas Souchu To: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some SMBus Stuffs. References: <199901251651.BAA27916@shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199901251651.BAA27916@shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp>; from Takanori Watanabe on Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 01:51:13AM +0900 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD breizh 4.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 01:51:13AM +0900, Takanori Watanabe wrote: > >The driver for SMBus on Intel PIIX4 Power Management Controller >has been commited. >Now, I have some examples for SMBus application. >It is available at >http://www.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp/~takawata/smbus/examples/ >.. >And currently,you have to modify not only your configuration file >but also files.i386 and pcisupport.c . Not exactly, I've just committed a fix. Just add the smbus stuff in your machine file + 'controller intpm0' as described in the recently committed LINT. See also intpm(4). >The kernel patches are available at >http://www.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp/~takawata/smbus/sys/ >Please test the codes and give some advices. > >This device requires IRQ 9 exclusively.To use this, enable >ACPI function in BIOS configuration,or PnP mechanism assigns conflicted >IRQ for PnP ISA card. And don't use IRQ 9 for Non-PnP ISA cards. > >Takanori Watanabe > >Public Key >Key fingerprint = 2C 51 E2 78 2C E1 C5 2D 0F F1 20 A3 11 3A 62 2A > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Nicholas. -- nsouch@teaser.fr / nsouch@freebsd.org FreeBSD - Turning PCs into workstations - http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 14:27:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22324 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:27:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hawaii.conterra.com (hawaii.conterra.com [209.12.164.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22316 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:27:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from myself@conterra.com) Received: from dmaddox.conterra.com (dmaddox.conterra.com [209.12.169.48]) by hawaii.conterra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07406; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:27:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from myself@localhost) by dmaddox.conterra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id RAA00979; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:27:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from myself) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:27:32 -0500 From: "Donald J . Maddox" To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Tom Torrance , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot panic Message-ID: <19990125172732.A934@dmaddox.conterra.com> Reply-To: dmaddox@conterra.com References: <36AC4879.A8246685@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <36AC4879.A8246685@newsguy.com>; from Daniel C. Sobral on Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 07:33:29PM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 07:33:29PM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Tom Torrance wrote: > > > > The last change broke the set num_ide_disks=1 which had worked, but > > no longer does... > > It was broken for a few hours. Num_ide_disks should be working > again, for those which relied on it on the past (like you :). Though > I get the feeling that everyone who used num_ide_disks ended up > suping the broken version of loader... > > Stay with the new mechanism, though. Hmmm... I had the same problem as Tom yesterday, and I never used num_ide_disks before. Now it doesn't work _unless_ I use num_ide_disks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 14:48:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25303 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:47:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25297; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:47:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA15365; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:47:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma015363; Mon, 25 Jan 99 14:46:33 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA18293; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:46:33 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901252246.OAA18293@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Same module loaded twice? To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:46:33 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the output below, notice there are two modules named "ng_sync_sr" loaded in the "kernel" object (due to a typo), and moreover there's a "netgraph" module loaded in both the "kernel" object and the "netgraph.ko" object.. $ kldstat -v Id Refs Address Size Name 1 4 0xf0100000 1be82c kernel Contains modules: Id Name 1 rootbus 2 netgraph 3 ng_sync_sr 4 ng_sync_sr 5 ufs 6 nfs 7 msdos 8 procfs 9 cd9660 10 ipfw 11 if_tun 12 if_sl 13 if_ppp 14 if_loop 15 shell 16 execgzip 17 elf 18 aout 2 1 0xf07f1000 3000 ng_socket.ko Contains modules: Id Name 20 ng_socket 3 2 0xf07f5000 4000 netgraph.ko Contains modules: Id Name 19 netgraph Why and how does the linker allow this? It seems like: - When the kernel was compiled, the ng_sync_sr conflict should have caused a failure - When the netgraph.ko was kldloaded, there should have been an error from the conflicting module names Curiously, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 14:48:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25503 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:48:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25492 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:48:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id OAA19016; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:47:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id OAA22302; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:47:37 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id PAA14674; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:47:36 -0700 Message-ID: <36ACF488.14813637@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:47:36 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ollivier Robert CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers References: <199901250145.RAA26421@kithrup.com> <199901250755.IAA28096@freebsd.dk> <19990125222739.A69713@keltia.freenix.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ollivier Robert wrote: > > According to Søren Schmidt: > > I'll have to finsih the USB keyboard thing first though.... > > Speaking of USB, I guess we don't support USB mouse (does it exist yet ?) ? > I'm asking because I'll probably buy a Sony VAIO laptop and if one wants to > do without the port extender, one has to either use the internal touchpad > or plug an USB mouse... No PS/2 port? If it has one, you can get a PS/2 Y-cable that will allow you to plug both mouse and keyboard into the PS/2 port. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 14:57:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26590 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:57:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hawaii.conterra.com (hawaii.conterra.com [209.12.164.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26585 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:57:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from myself@conterra.com) Received: from dmaddox.conterra.com (dmaddox.conterra.com [209.12.169.48]) by hawaii.conterra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA08909; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:56:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from myself@localhost) by dmaddox.conterra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id RAA01137; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:56:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from myself) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:56:53 -0500 From: "Donald J . Maddox" To: "Donald J . Maddox" Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Tom Torrance , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot panic Message-ID: <19990125175653.C934@dmaddox.conterra.com> Reply-To: dmaddox@conterra.com References: <36AC4879.A8246685@newsguy.com> <19990125172732.A934@dmaddox.conterra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990125172732.A934@dmaddox.conterra.com>; from Donald J . Maddox on Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 05:27:32PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 05:27:32PM -0500, Donald J . Maddox wrote: > On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 07:33:29PM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > Tom Torrance wrote: > > > > > > The last change broke the set num_ide_disks=1 which had worked, but > > > no longer does... > > > > It was broken for a few hours. Num_ide_disks should be working > > again, for those which relied on it on the past (like you :). Though > > I get the feeling that everyone who used num_ide_disks ended up > > suping the broken version of loader... > > > > Stay with the new mechanism, though. > > Hmmm... I had the same problem as Tom yesterday, and I never used > num_ide_disks before. Now it doesn't work _unless_ I use num_ide_disks. Sorry to reply to my own message, but I just realized that I added root_disk_unit at the same time I added num_ide_disks, and _that_ is the one that is required now. Before num_ide_disks was 'deprecated', I needed neither of these. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 15:00:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27112 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:00:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles253.castles.com [208.214.165.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27105 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:00:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12399; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:56:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901252256.OAA12399@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dmaddox@conterra.com cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Tom Torrance , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot panic In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:56:53 EST." <19990125175653.C934@dmaddox.conterra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:56:10 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > Hmmm... I had the same problem as Tom yesterday, and I never used > > num_ide_disks before. Now it doesn't work _unless_ I use num_ide_disks. > > Sorry to reply to my own message, but I just realized that I added > root_disk_unit at the same time I added num_ide_disks, and _that_ > is the one that is required now. Before num_ide_disks was 'deprecated', > I needed neither of these. You either haven't rebuilt your loader, or you should be supplying us with more information. Please ensure your sources are up to date, rebuild the loader, and if you're still having trouble, consider offering us a little relevant detai. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 15:12:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29330 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:12:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hawaii.conterra.com (hawaii.conterra.com [209.12.164.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29308 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:12:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from myself@conterra.com) Received: from dmaddox.conterra.com (dmaddox.conterra.com [209.12.169.48]) by hawaii.conterra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA09650; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:12:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from myself@localhost) by dmaddox.conterra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id SAA01223; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:12:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from myself) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:12:32 -0500 From: "Donald J . Maddox" To: Mike Smith Cc: dmaddox@conterra.com, "Daniel C. Sobral" , Tom Torrance , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot panic Message-ID: <19990125181232.A1172@dmaddox.conterra.com> Reply-To: dmaddox@conterra.com References: <19990125175653.C934@dmaddox.conterra.com> <199901252256.OAA12399@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199901252256.OAA12399@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 02:56:10PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 02:56:10PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > Hmmm... I had the same problem as Tom yesterday, and I never used > > > num_ide_disks before. Now it doesn't work _unless_ I use num_ide_disks. > > > > Sorry to reply to my own message, but I just realized that I added > > root_disk_unit at the same time I added num_ide_disks, and _that_ > > is the one that is required now. Before num_ide_disks was 'deprecated', > > I needed neither of these. > > You either haven't rebuilt your loader, or you should be supplying us > with more information. > > Please ensure your sources are up to date, rebuild the loader, and if > you're still having trouble, consider offering us a little relevant > detai. This was after building a new kernel, followed by a full 'make world'. Actually, I am not 'having trouble'... I just find that after my 'make world' of 24 Jan, root_disk_unit is REQUIRED, or the boot will fail when trying to mount my / partition. Before, it worked just fine with no hints at all. The root partition is on the second IDE disk in a system with 2 IDE disks and 1 SCSI disk. I have found also that the / partition is mounted sucessfully if I specify it as /dev/wd1a instead of /dev/wd1s1a, even in the absence of root_disk_unit. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 15:28:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01519 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:28:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles253.castles.com [208.214.165.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01511 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:28:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12570; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:24:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901252324.PAA12570@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dmaddox@conterra.com cc: Mike Smith , "Daniel C. Sobral" , Tom Torrance , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot panic In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:12:32 EST." <19990125181232.A1172@dmaddox.conterra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:24:41 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 02:56:10PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > Hmmm... I had the same problem as Tom yesterday, and I never used > > > > num_ide_disks before. Now it doesn't work _unless_ I use num_ide_disks. > > > > > > Sorry to reply to my own message, but I just realized that I added > > > root_disk_unit at the same time I added num_ide_disks, and _that_ > > > is the one that is required now. Before num_ide_disks was 'deprecated', > > > I needed neither of these. > > > > You either haven't rebuilt your loader, or you should be supplying us > > with more information. > > > > Please ensure your sources are up to date, rebuild the loader, and if > > you're still having trouble, consider offering us a little relevant > > detai. > > This was after building a new kernel, followed by a full 'make world'. > > Actually, I am not 'having trouble'... I just find that after my > 'make world' of 24 Jan, root_disk_unit is REQUIRED, or the boot will > fail when trying to mount my / partition. Before, it worked just > fine with no hints at all. The root partition is on the second IDE > disk in a system with 2 IDE disks and 1 SCSI disk. I have found also > that the / partition is mounted sucessfully if I specify it as /dev/wd1a > instead of /dev/wd1s1a, even in the absence of root_disk_unit. I'm telling you that this constitutes "having trouble". 8) $root_disk_unit should only be required if you have a discontinuity in the chain of devices from bios disk 0x80 to your root device. It would help *immensely* if you were a little forthcoming with eg. what it is that you have to set $root_disk_unit to. Also, as I've tried to make clear here, changing the /etc/fstab entry for / is *WRONG* and if you find yourself having to do this it's because something is screwed elsewhere. Again, please *ensure* that your loader is fully up to date. So far everyone that's reported problems has been using an out-of-date loader. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 15:39:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:39:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hawaii.conterra.com (hawaii.conterra.com [209.12.164.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03042 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:39:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from myself@conterra.com) Received: from dmaddox.conterra.com (dmaddox.conterra.com [209.12.169.48]) by hawaii.conterra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10410; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:39:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from myself@localhost) by dmaddox.conterra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id SAA01432; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:39:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from myself) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:39:01 -0500 From: "Donald J . Maddox" To: Mike Smith Cc: dmaddox@conterra.com, "Daniel C. Sobral" , Tom Torrance , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot panic Message-ID: <19990125183901.A1404@dmaddox.conterra.com> Reply-To: dmaddox@conterra.com References: <19990125181232.A1172@dmaddox.conterra.com> <199901252324.PAA12570@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199901252324.PAA12570@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 03:24:41PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 03:24:41PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > I'm telling you that this constitutes "having trouble". 8) Ok, I'll accept that :-) > $root_disk_unit should only be required if you have a discontinuity in > the chain of devices from bios disk 0x80 to your root device. > > It would help *immensely* if you were a little forthcoming with eg. > what it is that you have to set $root_disk_unit to. Also, as I've > tried to make clear here, changing the /etc/fstab entry for / is > *WRONG* and if you find yourself having to do this it's because > something is screwed elsewhere. Ok. First, the issue of currency. As I stated earlier, all this discussion is based on a kernel and world built Jan 24: $ ls -l /boot total 159 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 186 Jan 24 16:42 boot.conf -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 512 Jan 24 04:22 boot0 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 512 Jan 24 04:22 boot1 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 7680 Jan 24 04:22 boot2 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 159 Nov 26 12:23 kernel.conf -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 126976 Jan 24 04:22 loader -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 10653 Jan 24 04:22 loader.help This is what is currently in my boot.conf: $ cat /boot/boot.conf set num_ide_disks=2 set root_disk_unit=1 load kernel load msdos load procfs load if_tun load if_disc load linux load vesa load joy load -t userconfig_script /boot/kernel.conf autoboot 3 With this boot.conf, I don't have to change my fstab. If I remove root_disk_unit, the / mount fails unless I change the device to /dev/wd1a in fstab. > Again, please *ensure* that your loader is fully up to date. So far > everyone that's reported problems has been using an out-of-date loader. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 16:01:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05845 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:01:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheetah.cs.ucla.edu (Cheetah.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.132.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05840; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:01:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jiang@CS.UCLA.EDU) Received: (from jiang@localhost) by cheetah.cs.ucla.edu (8.8.8+Sun/UCLACS-4.0) id QAA27195; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:01:20 -0800 (PST) From: Zhimei Jiang Message-Id: <199901260001.QAA27195@cheetah.cs.ucla.edu> Subject: create new system call To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:01:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: jiang@research.att.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Is there any place I can find some well documented information about how to add a new system call to FreeBSD ? I searched on the Web and some books, the only thing I found was some not quite complete information about adding system calls to Linux. Thanks a lot. ZM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 16:37:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12896 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:37:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA12883 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:37:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from mango.parc.xerox.com ([13.1.102.232]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <55076(1)>; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:36:58 PST Received: from mango.parc.xerox.com (localhost.parc.xerox.com [127.0.0.1]) by mango.parc.xerox.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21194; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:36:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@mango.parc.xerox.com) Message-Id: <199901260036.QAA21194@mango.parc.xerox.com> To: Wes Peters cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:47:36 PST." <36ACF488.14813637@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:36:55 PST From: Bill Fenner Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <36ACF488.14813637@softweyr.com>you write: >Ollivier Robert wrote: >> ...Sony VAIO laptop... without the port extender ... > >No PS/2 port? Nope, the PS/2 port is on the port extender; the base machine just has a USB port. (The machine isn't thick enough to fit a PS/2 port =) Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 18:15:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29867 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:15:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from net177138.hcv.com (net177138.hcv.com [209.153.177.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29785 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:15:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matthew@wolfepub.com) Received: from thunder ([10.0.0.12]) by net177138.hcv.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA09675 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:59:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from matthew@wolfepub.com) Message-Id: <4.1.19990125205444.00a49800@firebat.wolfepub.com> X-Sender: matthew@firebat.wolfepub.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:05:30 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Hagerty Subject: No modules loaded message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, Could someone explain to me what this message is trying to tell me: Jan 24 19:54:18 redbox smbd: no modules loaded for 'samba' service If it is samba problem then please disregard, however I get the feeling it is coming from the OS, not samba. What "service(s)" is/are being referred to? I'm about to go kernel hunting for anything similar to "modules" but I am just giving it a shot in the dark. Thanks, Matthew Hagerty matthew@wolfepub.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 19:46:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17688 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:46:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17680 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:46:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id MAA13113; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:46:25 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36AD2B79.8CAF5CA2@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:42:01 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dmaddox@conterra.com CC: Mike Smith , Tom Torrance , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot panic References: <19990125181232.A1172@dmaddox.conterra.com> <199901252324.PAA12570@dingo.cdrom.com> <19990125183901.A1404@dmaddox.conterra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Donald J . Maddox" wrote: > > Ok. First, the issue of currency. As I stated earlier, all this > discussion is based on a kernel and world built Jan 24: Meaning, cvsupped on the 23 or earlier 24 (whatever that means in your TZ... :)? That's probably what Mike means by "out of date", since the loader was broken for a few hours on that day. > With this boot.conf, I don't have to change my fstab. If I remove > root_disk_unit, the / mount fails unless I change the device to > /dev/wd1a in fstab. And this sounds pretty much like the symptoms of said broken loader. When using -current, "up to date" means "cvsup again". (On the bright side, you can "cd /sys/boot; make depend all install" to replace the loader, without making a new world or kernel) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com If you sell your soul to the Devil and all you get is an MCSE from it, you haven't gotten market rate. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 21:47:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06122 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:47:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (ppp1-87.presc.dialup.futureone.com [209.250.11.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06111 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:47:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rcarter@psf.Pinyon.ORG) Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by psf.Pinyon.ORG (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA02920 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:44:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rcarter@psf.Pinyon.ORG) Message-Id: <199901260544.WAA02920@psf.Pinyon.ORG> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:24:06 PST." <199901260524.VAA14408@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:44:06 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, dumb question, how does this improve on rdist? "This program is relatively simple in design: It takes the source and "creates as near an exact duplicate on the destination as possible. It "has the following features: Russell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 22:28:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11612 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:28:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Vorlon.odc.net (Vorlon.odc.net [207.137.42.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11607 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:28:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nwestfal@Vorlon.odc.net) Received: from localhost (nwestfal@localhost) by Vorlon.odc.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17521; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:28:08 -0800 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:28:08 -0800 (PST) From: Neal Westfall To: Matthew Hagerty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: No modules loaded message In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990125205444.00a49800@firebat.wolfepub.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It is PAM related. I never could get samba 2.0 working properly. I had to drop back to 1.9.10. If anyone has gotten samba 2.0 to work with unix passwords, I'd love to hear how they did it. On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > Greetings, > > Could someone explain to me what this message is trying to tell me: > > Jan 24 19:54:18 redbox smbd: no modules loaded for 'samba' service > > If it is samba problem then please disregard, however I get the feeling it > is coming from the OS, not samba. What "service(s)" is/are being referred > to? I'm about to go kernel hunting for anything similar to "modules" but I > am just giving it a shot in the dark. > > Thanks, > Matthew Hagerty > matthew@wolfepub.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- Neal Westfall mailto:nwestfal@odc.net http://www.odc.net/~nwestfal/ FreeBSD: The Power To Serve! http://www.freebsd.org/ $Id: dot.signature,v 1.2 1998/12/30 08:23:13 nwestfal Exp nwestfal $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 23:21:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18826 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:21:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA18819 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:21:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id XAA14049; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:21:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:21:01 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901260721.XAA14049@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Russell L. Carter" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question References: <199901260544.WAA02920@psf.Pinyon.ORG> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Ok, dumb question, how does this improve on rdist? : :"This program is relatively simple in design: It takes the source and :"creates as near an exact duplicate on the destination as possible. It :"has the following features: : :Russell Have you ever tried copying whole trees with rdist? It isn't fun. rdist can't do half the things cpdup does. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 23:40:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21140 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:40:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21038 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:40:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id IAA28537 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:39:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 7411E1513; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:09:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:09:23 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers Message-ID: <19990126080923.B70453@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199901250145.RAA26421@kithrup.com> <199901250755.IAA28096@freebsd.dk> <19990125222739.A69713@keltia.freenix.fr> <36ACF488.14813637@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <36ACF488.14813637@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 03:47:36PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4994 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Wes Peters: > No PS/2 port? If it has one, you can get a PS/2 Y-cable that will allow > you to plug both mouse and keyboard into the PS/2 port. The PS/2 port in on the port replicator whereas the USB port is on the laptop. Anyway, Mike gave me the answer I wanted :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #69: Mon Jan 18 02:02:12 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 23:43:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21467 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:43:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21461 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:43:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA06573; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdEw6550; Tue Jan 26 07:35:05 1999 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:34:58 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Matthew Dillon cc: "Russell L. Carter" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-Reply-To: <199901260721.XAA14049@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :Ok, dumb question, how does this improve on rdist? > : > :"This program is relatively simple in design: It takes the source and > :"creates as near an exact duplicate on the destination as possible. It > :"has the following features: > : > :Russell > > Have you ever tried copying whole trees with rdist? It isn't fun. > rdist can't do half the things cpdup does. and what about rsync? > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 25 23:47:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21925 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:47:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21918 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:47:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2/Netplex) with ESMTP id PAA05289; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:46:25 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199901260746.PAA05289@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon cc: "Russell L. Carter" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:21:01 PST." <199901260721.XAA14049@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:46:25 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > :Ok, dumb question, how does this improve on rdist? > : > :"This program is relatively simple in design: It takes the source and > :"creates as near an exact duplicate on the destination as possible. It > :"has the following features: > : > :Russell > > Have you ever tried copying whole trees with rdist? It isn't fun. > rdist can't do half the things cpdup does. I personally would *love* it to go into /bin or /sbin. I have lost count of the number of times that I've had to move trees with tar or cpio (and cpio with -Hnewc to get the 32bit device numbers). If it handles flags etc and does restarts, then even better! A tool like this will be far more useful than a stack of other things in the tree. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 00:05:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA24064 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:05:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24054 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:05:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2/Netplex) with ESMTP id QAA05374; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:04:32 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199901260804.QAA05374@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Julian Elischer cc: Matthew Dillon , "Russell L. Carter" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:34:58 PST." Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:04:31 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > > > On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > > :Ok, dumb question, how does this improve on rdist? > > : > > :"This program is relatively simple in design: It takes the source and > > :"creates as near an exact duplicate on the destination as possible. It > > :"has the following features: > > : > > :Russell > > > > Have you ever tried copying whole trees with rdist? It isn't fun. > > rdist can't do half the things cpdup does. > > and what about rsync? rsync is both better and worse than rdist.. I find it's argument parsing non-intuitive. Eg: if you want to copy /foo to /bar, you have to specify it as: "/foo/ /bar" or you have a disaster in progress with --delete. ^ Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 00:16:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA25373 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:16:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA25368 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:16:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA20664; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:16:50 -0800 (PST) To: Peter Wemm cc: Matthew Dillon , "Russell L. Carter" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:46:25 +0800." <199901260746.PAA05289@spinner.netplex.com.au> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:16:50 -0800 Message-ID: <20657.917338610@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I personally would *love* it to go into /bin or /sbin. I have lost count > of the number of times that I've had to move trees with tar or cpio (and > cpio with -Hnewc to get the 32bit device numbers). If it handles flags > etc and does restarts, then even better! > > A tool like this will be far more useful than a stack of other things in > the tree. That's sort of my feeling. If something has to go away in its place, let's murder rdist(1)! :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 00:17:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA25496 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:17:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA25481 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:17:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id AAA14444; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:17:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:17:33 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901260817.AAA14444@apollo.backplane.com> To: Peter Wemm Cc: "Russell L. Carter" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question References: <199901260746.PAA05289@spinner.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :I personally would *love* it to go into /bin or /sbin. I have lost count :of the number of times that I've had to move trees with tar or cpio (and :cpio with -Hnewc to get the 32bit device numbers). If it handles flags :etc and does restarts, then even better! : :A tool like this will be far more useful than a stack of other things in :the tree. : :Cheers, :-Peter Yup, though caviat: cpdup doesn't use streams like tar, cpio, etc... it operates more like 'cp' in that it takes a source and destination path. We use it at BEST to maintain our 45+ FreeBSD boxes from a single template machine via NFS ( the one thing I used NFS for at BEST ). I'll put it up on my web page for review. Compile it up and run 'cpdup' without any arguments for help. http://www.backplane.com/FreeBSD/ Note: the MD5 support is brand new, I just added it tonight. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 00:31:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA27650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:31:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA27644 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:31:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA76739 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:38:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:38:13 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: pointer to info on stacking layers? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone have any URLs to information on how the stacking code (for file systems) is done currently in FreeBSD? I see templates of pointers to functions for vnode operations, but i was hoping there was a little more out there to help. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 4.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 00:32:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA27803 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:32:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA27797 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:32:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id AAA14635; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:30:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:30:55 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901260830.AAA14635@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Peter Wemm , "Russell L. Carter" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question References: <20657.917338610@zippy.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> A tool like this will be far more useful than a stack of other things in :> the tree. : :That's sort of my feeling. If something has to go away in its :place, let's murder rdist(1)! :-) : :- Jordan Hmmm. /bin after all? Well, take a look at it ( http://www.backplane.com/FreeBSD/ ) and tell me what you think. And remember, if something trivial is missing I can always add it. All the hard stuff has already been done ( except, perhaps, adding stream support ). I can think of a few things already, like adding support for creating file holes for nul data on copy or forking for subdirectories ( to a certain degree, anyway ) to maximize NFS bandwidth. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 00:43:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28940 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:43:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28935 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:43:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:42:56 +0000 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk ([10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id CK5RCWQ6; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:38:46 -0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=palmerharvey.co.uk) by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 10545x-000BtW-00; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:43:37 +0000 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Peter Wemm , "Russell L. Carter" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question X-Mailer: nmh v0.26 X-Colour: Green Organization: Palmer & Harvey McLane In-Reply-To: Matthew Dillon's message of "Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:17:33 PST" <199901260817.AAA14444@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:43:37 +0000 From: Dom Mitchell Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26 January 1999, Matthew Dillon proclaimed: > I'll put it up on my web page for review. Compile it up and run > 'cpdup' without any arguments for help. > > http://www.backplane.com/FreeBSD/ Or, for the lazy amongst us, here's a port. I labelled it v1.0 in lieu of anything else... -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator ``Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.'' -- Henry Spencer # This is a shell archive. Save it in a file, remove anything before # this line, and then unpack it by entering "sh file". Note, it may # create directories; files and directories will be owned by you and # have default permissions. # # This archive contains: # # cpdup # cpdup/Makefile # cpdup/files # cpdup/files/md5 # cpdup/files/Makefile # cpdup/pkg # cpdup/pkg/COMMENT # cpdup/pkg/DESCR # cpdup/pkg/PLIST # echo c - cpdup mkdir -p cpdup > /dev/null 2>&1 echo x - cpdup/Makefile sed 's/^X//' >cpdup/Makefile << 'END-of-cpdup/Makefile' X# New ports collection makefile for: cpdup X# Version required: 1.0 X# Date created: 26 Jan 1999 X# Whom: Dom Mitchell X# X# $Id$ X# X XDISTNAME= cpdup-1.0 XCATEGORIES= sysutil XMASTER_SITES= http://www.backplane.com/FreeBSD/ XDISTFILES= cpdup.c X XMAINTAINER= dom@myrddin.demon.co.uk X XWRKSRC= ${WRKDIR} X Xdo-extract: X [ ! -d ${WRKDIR} ] && ${MKDIR} ${WRKDIR} X ${CP} ${DISTDIR}/${DISTFILES} ${WRKSRC} X ${CP} ${FILESDIR}/Makefile ${WRKSRC} X Xdo-install: X ${INSTALL_PROGRAM} ${WRKSRC}/cpdup ${PREFIX}/bin X X.include END-of-cpdup/Makefile echo c - cpdup/files mkdir -p cpdup/files > /dev/null 2>&1 echo x - cpdup/files/md5 sed 's/^X//' >cpdup/files/md5 << 'END-of-cpdup/files/md5' XMD5 (cpdup.c) = a9d3f6cf630e5a0fb0793c4a0d9dcba9 END-of-cpdup/files/md5 echo x - cpdup/files/Makefile sed 's/^X//' >cpdup/files/Makefile << 'END-of-cpdup/files/Makefile' X# $Id$ X XPROG=cpdup XNOMAN=waiting XLDADD+= -lmd X X.include END-of-cpdup/files/Makefile echo c - cpdup/pkg mkdir -p cpdup/pkg > /dev/null 2>&1 echo x - cpdup/pkg/COMMENT sed 's/^X//' >cpdup/pkg/COMMENT << 'END-of-cpdup/pkg/COMMENT' Xcpdup is a filesystem hierarchy duplicator. END-of-cpdup/pkg/COMMENT echo x - cpdup/pkg/DESCR sed 's/^X//' >cpdup/pkg/DESCR << 'END-of-cpdup/pkg/DESCR' Xcpdup is a hierarchy duplicator. It will copy a source hierarchy Xto a destination hierarchy and attempt to make the destination an Xexact duplicate of the source, inclusive of removing files from Xthe destination that do not exist in the source. X Xcpdup can deal with devices, softlinks, hardlinks, ownership, flags, Xpermissions, mtime, and so forth. It uses stat() to determine Xwhether it must copy a file so piecemeal updates are reasonably Xefficient and restarts are not painful. cpdup uses a Xcopy-to-temp-and-rename methodology which allows you to run it on Xlive systems, and cpdup will use exception files contained in the Xdirectories being copied ( in the SOURCE directory, not the Xdestination! ) to determine what to ignore. X XFinally, cpdup is capable of running MD5 checks between the source Xand destination hierarchies. X XAs a safety mechanism, cpdup will not cross partition boundries Xwhile scanning either the source or the destination. Also, deletions Xare confirmed by default. Do *NOT* use the -i0 option unless you Xknow what you are doing!!! X Xhttp://www.backplane.com/FreeBSD/ END-of-cpdup/pkg/DESCR echo x - cpdup/pkg/PLIST sed 's/^X//' >cpdup/pkg/PLIST << 'END-of-cpdup/pkg/PLIST' Xbin/cpdup END-of-cpdup/pkg/PLIST exit -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 01:27:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03280 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:27:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03270; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:27:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA91150; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:29:16 GMT Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:29:16 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Archie Cobbs cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Same module loaded twice? In-Reply-To: <199901252246.OAA18293@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Archie Cobbs wrote: > In the output below, notice there are two modules named "ng_sync_sr" > loaded in the "kernel" object (due to a typo), and moreover there's > a "netgraph" module loaded in both the "kernel" object and the "netgraph.ko" > object.. > > $ kldstat -v > Id Refs Address Size Name > 1 4 0xf0100000 1be82c kernel > Contains modules: > Id Name > 1 rootbus > 2 netgraph > 3 ng_sync_sr > 4 ng_sync_sr > 5 ufs > 6 nfs > 7 msdos > 8 procfs > 9 cd9660 > 10 ipfw > 11 if_tun > 12 if_sl > 13 if_ppp > 14 if_loop > 15 shell > 16 execgzip > 17 elf > 18 aout > 2 1 0xf07f1000 3000 ng_socket.ko > Contains modules: > Id Name > 20 ng_socket > 3 2 0xf07f5000 4000 netgraph.ko > Contains modules: > Id Name > 19 netgraph > > Why and how does the linker allow this? It seems like: > > - When the kernel was compiled, the ng_sync_sr conflict should > have caused a failure > - When the netgraph.ko was kldloaded, there should have been > an error from the conflicting module names The linker doesn't care (mostly) about modules at the moment, just the files which contain them. Mike has been thinking recently about a more flexible scheme with dependancies and versioning at the module level which is probably the right direction to take. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 02:55:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA15299 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:55:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [209.244.238.132] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA15294 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:55:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA04073; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:49:53 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199901261049.FAA04073@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-Reply-To: <199901260830.AAA14635@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 26, 99 00:30:55 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:49:53 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hmmm. /bin after all? See how it ages as a port first. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 03:36:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19022 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:36:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA19002; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:36:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id UAA29348; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:36:27 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36ADA340.D3AA56F@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:13:04 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pointer to info on stacking layers? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Does anyone have any URLs to information on how the stacking code (for > file systems) is done currently in FreeBSD? > > I see templates of pointers to functions for vnode operations, but i was > hoping there was a little more out there to help. 1) This is a question for freebsd-fs, of course. 2) Stacking code "isn't" at the moment. That is one thing one have to keep in mind while browsing it: it is *not* working. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com If you sell your soul to the Devil and all you get is an MCSE from it, you haven't gotten market rate. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 03:48:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA20669 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA20521 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:48:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id UAA00660; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:48:19 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36ADAA43.4B383143@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:42:59 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question References: <20657.917338610@zippy.cdrom.com> <199901260830.AAA14635@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > > Well, take a look at it ( http://www.backplane.com/FreeBSD/ ) and tell > me what you think. And remember, if something trivial is missing I > can always add it. All the hard stuff has already been done ( except, > perhaps, adding stream support ). I can think of a few things already, > like adding support for creating file holes for nul data on copy or > forking for subdirectories ( to a certain degree, anyway ) to maximize > NFS bandwidth. Does it support command-line passed "ignore" files, instead of .cpignore? (I prefer to have all these things in one place...) Does it support patterns in .cpignore? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com If you sell your soul to the Devil and all you get is an MCSE from it, you haven't gotten market rate. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 05:50:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA05074 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:50:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lion.butya.kz (butya-gw.butya.kz [194.87.112.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA04967 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:49:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bp@butya.kz) Received: from bp (helo=localhost) by lion.butya.kz with local-esmtp (Exim 2.054 #1) id 1058rR-0003a1-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:48:57 +0600 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:48:56 +0600 (ALMT) From: Boris Popov To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Netware client 1.2beta1 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Well, it's a first public release of nwlib. All concepts, design and implementation was maded to suit my needs, so I'll be very grateful for any comments, suggesstions, etc. Since it a first release it may not work or even compile in your environment :). Note, nwfs require FreeBSD version 3.0 and it must be very close to RELENG_3. Here is a short description of nwlib components: nwfs - kernel loadable module, which inernally contain two modules - ncp and nwfs. libipx and libncp - user side library to interact with kernel part. mount_nwfs, ncplist - utility programs which make previous components useful :). Archive located at ftp://ftp.butya.kz/pub/nwlib/nwlib-1.2b1.tar.gz Bye, -- Boris Popov To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 06:55:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA13788 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:55:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA13782 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:55:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25171; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:54:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36ADD73B.1F2DAA38@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:54:51 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ollivier Robert CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Mike Smith Subject: Re: USB drivers References: <199901250145.RAA26421@kithrup.com> <199901250755.IAA28096@freebsd.dk> <19990125222739.A69713@keltia.freenix.fr> <36ACF488.14813637@softweyr.com> <19990126080923.B70453@keltia.freenix.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ollivier Robert wrote: > > According to Wes Peters: > > No PS/2 port? If it has one, you can get a PS/2 Y-cable that will allow > > you to plug both mouse and keyboard into the PS/2 port. > > The PS/2 port in on the port replicator whereas the USB port is on the > laptop. Anyway, Mike gave me the answer I wanted :-) Yes, I saw it! Now I wonder if he has USB keyboard support, too? ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 09:16:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02599 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:16:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (ppp1-25.presc.dialup.futureone.com [209.250.11.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02594 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:16:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rcarter@psf.Pinyon.ORG) Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by psf.Pinyon.ORG (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA04684; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:13:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rcarter@psf.Pinyon.ORG) Message-Id: <199901261713.KAA04684@psf.Pinyon.ORG> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:21:01 PST." <199901260721.XAA14049@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:13:03 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG %:Ok, dumb question, how does this improve on rdist? %: %:"This program is relatively simple in design: It takes the source and %:"creates as near an exact duplicate on the destination as possible. It %:"has the following features: %: %:Russell % % Have you ever tried copying whole trees with rdist? It isn't fun. % rdist can't do half the things cpdup does. (Without trying to appear like I'm defending rdist) I only routinely used it to *simultaneously* update an identically configured *live* cluster of 16 FreeBSD systems from a template machine, and it never failed me... and I believe that Ron Minnich has done similar things with his cluster. This was through a 16 port 100mb Synoptics switch, mebbe that was the difference. But I don't really care one way or another, I'll try it out and see... Russell % % -Matt % Matthew Dillon % % To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 09:23:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03310 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:23:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03302 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:23:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id JAA19851; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:23:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:23:41 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901261723.JAA19851@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question References: <20657.917338610@zippy.cdrom.com> <199901260830.AAA14635@apollo.backplane.com> <36ADAA43.4B383143@newsguy.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :Does it support command-line passed "ignore" files, instead of :.cpignore? (I prefer to have all these things in one place...) If you mean can you have a single ignore file containing the relative or full paths of the files/directories to ignore, the answer is not at the moment. I see the utility, but it would also be extremely dangerous. You can change the cpignore filename that cpdup looks for in each directory, though. Having .cpignore files in the source directories directly is a safety mechanism. At BEST we even 'chflags schg .cpignore' the most critical files. It may not be necessary for me to be that paranoid now that deletions are confirmed by default ( they aren't in the version BEST was using ). :Does it support patterns in .cpignore? Simple */? patterns. *NOT* regex. :-- :Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) :dcs@newsguy.com -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 09:44:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05426 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:44:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA05421 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:44:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA04421; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:44:29 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:44:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: "Russell L. Carter" cc: Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-Reply-To: <199901261713.KAA04684@psf.Pinyon.ORG> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > % Have you ever tried copying whole trees with rdist? It isn't fun. > % rdist can't do half the things cpdup does. > > (Without trying to appear like I'm defending rdist) > I only routinely used it to *simultaneously* update an identically > configured *live* cluster of 16 FreeBSD systems from a template > machine, and it never failed me... and I believe that Ron Minnich has > done similar things with his cluster. I'm not defending rdist either but ... I use it to routinely keep 128 machines up-to-date. On FreeBSD I can run 32 at a time. It only takes a few minutes. cpdup will have to equal that performance. But I'll look at cpdup too. Ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 10:53:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14523 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:53:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14516 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:53:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id MAA15095; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:53:32 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199901261853.MAA15095@home.dragondata.com> Subject: High Load cron patches - comments? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:53:31 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=ELM917376811-8356-0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ELM917376811-8356-0_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a somewhat unusual setup, where I have a server that several hundred customers use, that has all of /home over an nfs mount, and each customer has quite a few cron jobs that they like to execute every ten minutes or so. The problem is that they all want to execute their cron jobs on a */10 minute frequency, so on every minute ending in '0', I suddenly have cron spawning off a few hundred processes, bringing the machine's load average above 15.0, and saturating my NFS link for quite a while. No amount of pleading with my users did much good, since they were just following a template given to them by the software they were using. I talked briefly about this with Paul Vixie (cron's author), while we had differing ideas about how to accomplish this, my patches have been running for over a month now on a production system, and have worked very well. These patches limit the number of jobs cron will start per second, with a initial burst, a hard limit, as well as a 'burst mode', if the number of jobs on the 'to do list' is geting excessively high. Giving no options to cron makes it behave exactly as it did without the patches. The format for enabling this load balancing is as follows: cron [-x debugflag[,...]] [-a addweight [-c tickdecay] [-t threshold]] The -a parameter controls how many 'points' are added on every on execution The -c parameter controls how many points are subtracted every second The -t parameter controls how many points are necessary before queuing jobs, instead of running them. The flow is as follows: If (numpoints < threshold) { Execute Job numpoints += AddWeight; } Every second { numpoints -= tickdecay; if (reallybehindinrunningjobs) { Turn on burst mode } } Burst mode will keep tuning itself higher and higher, the further behind jobs get, until it's caught up. This prevents one user from putting 50,000 jobs in their crontab from making cron start sucking ram like mad. For me, cron -a 10 -c 100 -t 200 works very well. (Allow 10 jobs per second, but allow 20 at the beginning to hurry things up) Paul's idea was to limit the number of children cron has running at a time, hwoever for me this wasn't effective, as the user's jobs tend to hang around for a long time. Can I get comments/suggestions about this? Kevin --ELM917376811-8356-0_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=hlcron.patch Content-Description: /home/toasty/hlcron.patch Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- ../oldcron/cron.c Sat Jul 18 06:09:09 1998 +++ cron.c Sat Jan 2 20:04:02 1999 @@ -47,16 +47,19 @@ static void usage() { char **dflags; - fprintf(stderr, "usage: cron [-x debugflag[,...]]\n"); + fprintf(stderr, "usage: cron [-x debugflag[,...]] [-a addweight [-c tickdecay] [-t threshold]]\n"); fprintf(stderr, "\ndebugflags: "); for(dflags = DebugFlagNames; *dflags; dflags++) { fprintf(stderr, "%s ", *dflags); } - fprintf(stderr, "\n"); + fprintf(stderr, "\n\n"); + fprintf(stderr, "-a [addweight] Number of 'points' to add every time job is run\n"); + fprintf(stderr, "-c [tickdecay] Number of 'points' to subtract every second\n"); + fprintf(stderr, "-t [threshold] Number of 'points' to stop running jobs and just queue\n"); + fprintf(stderr, "\n"); exit(ERROR_EXIT); } @@ -126,19 +129,29 @@ while (TRUE) { # if DEBUGGING /* if (!(DebugFlags & DTEST)) */ # endif /*DEBUGGING*/ - cron_sleep(); - - load_database(&database); + cron_sleep(); - /* do this iteration + /* Prevent misconfigured options from making cron take + * over system ram + * This may not be desirable for production systems + * where cron jobs must run */ - cron_tick(&database); + if (BurstRate < 7) { + + load_database(&database); + + /* do this iteration + */ + cron_tick(&database); + } /* sleep 1 minute */ TargetTime += 60; } } @@ -226,31 +239,64 @@ static void cron_sleep() { - register int seconds_to_wait; + register int seconds_to_wait, seconds_to_delay; - do { - seconds_to_wait = (int) (TargetTime - time((time_t*)0)); - Debug(DSCH, ("[%d] TargetTime=%ld, sec-to-wait=%d\n", - getpid(), (long)TargetTime, seconds_to_wait)) - - /* if we intend to sleep, this means that it's finally - * time to empty the job queue (execute it). - * - * if we run any jobs, we'll probably screw up our timing, - * so go recompute. - * - * note that we depend here on the left-to-right nature - * of &&, and the short-circuiting. - */ - } while (seconds_to_wait > 0 && job_runqueue()); - - while (seconds_to_wait > 0) { - Debug(DSCH, ("[%d] sleeping for %d seconds\n", - getpid(), seconds_to_wait)) - seconds_to_wait = (int) sleep((unsigned int) seconds_to_wait); - } + do { + seconds_to_wait = (int) (TargetTime - time((time_t*)0)); + if (LoadAverage > LoadThreshold) { + /* if we denied jobs to run last time around, + * see if we should sleep for a short period + * before exiting + */ + if (seconds_to_wait > 0) { + /* decide if we should take a short nap + * or just go ahead with the normal + * return + */ + seconds_to_delay = MIN(seconds_to_wait, + ((LoadAverage - LoadThreshold) / + (TickDecay << BurstRate)) + 1); + if (seconds_to_delay == 0) + seconds_to_delay = 1; + Debug(DSCH, ("[%d] short sleeping for %d seconds\n", + getpid(), seconds_to_delay)) + sleep(seconds_to_delay); + } + } + if (LoadAverage > ((TickDecay << BurstRate) * seconds_to_delay)) + LoadAverage -= (TickDecay << BurstRate) * seconds_to_delay; + else + LoadAverage = 0; + /* if we're bursting jobs, and still not catching up + * increase the burst speed + */ + if (NumJobs > (MAXJOBLENHIGH << BurstRate)) + BurstRate++; + /* Put the burst rate back down if we're caught up */ + else if (BurstRate && (NumJobs < (MAXJOBLENLOW << (BurstRate - 1)))) + BurstRate--; + Debug(DSCH, ("[%d] TargetTime=%ld, sec-to-wait=%d, load=%d, jobs=%d, burst=%d\n", + getpid(), (long)TargetTime, seconds_to_wait, LoadAverage, NumJobs, + BurstRate)) + /* if we intend to sleep, this means that it's finally + * time to empty the job queue (execute it). + * + * if we run any jobs, we'll probably screw up our timing, + * so go recompute. + * + * note that we depend here on the left-to-right nature + * of &&, and the short-circuiting. + */ + } while ((seconds_to_wait > 0) && job_runqueue()); + + while (seconds_to_wait > 0) { + Debug(DSCH, ("[%d] sleeping for %d seconds\n", + getpid(), seconds_to_wait)) + seconds_to_wait = (int) sleep((unsigned int) seconds_to_wait); + } + } #ifdef USE_SIGCHLD @@ -296,13 +342,34 @@ char *argv[]; { int argch; - while ((argch = getopt(argc, argv, "x:")) != -1) { + while ((argch = getopt(argc, argv, "x:a:t:c:")) != -1) { switch (argch) { case 'x': if (!set_debug_flags(optarg)) usage(); + break; + case 'a': + AddWeight = atoi(optarg); + if (AddWeight > 100) { /* arbitrary value */ + fprintf(stderr, "-a parameter %i too high. Max: 100\n\n", AddWeight); + usage(); + } + break; + case 't': + LoadThreshold = atoi(optarg); + if (LoadThreshold < 1) { + fprintf(stderr, "-t parameter too low. Min: 1\n\n", LoadThreshold); + usage(); + } + break; + case 'c': + TickDecay = atoi(optarg); + if (TickDecay < 1) { + fprintf(stderr, "-c parameter too low. Min: 1\n\n", TickDecay); + usage(); + } break; default: usage(); } --- ../oldcron/cron.h Mon Mar 9 05:41:41 1998 +++ cron.h Sat Jan 2 16:50:13 1999 @@ -72,8 +72,16 @@ #define MAX_COMMAND 1000 /* max length of internally generated cmd */ #define MAX_ENVSTR 1000 /* max length of envvar=value\0 strings */ #define MAX_TEMPSTR 100 /* obvious */ #define MAX_UNAME 20 /* max length of username, should be overkill */ +#define MAXJOBLENHIGH 512 /* How many jobs in the run queue before + * increasing run speed + * every multiple of two higher than this + * will increase speed even more + */ +#define MAXJOBLENLOW 128 /* How many jobs in the run queue before + * returing to normal + */ #define ROOT_UID 0 /* don't change this, it really must be root */ #define ROOT_USER "root" /* ditto */ /* NOTE: these correspond to DebugFlagNames, @@ -266,8 +274,15 @@ char *ProgramName; int LineNumber; time_t TargetTime; +int LoadAverage = 0; +int AddWeight = 0; /* default load balancing off */ +int TickDecay = 10; /* sane value if not given */ +int LoadThreshold = 100; /* sane value if not given */ +int BurstRate = 0; +int NumJobs = 0; # if DEBUGGING int DebugFlags; char *DebugFlagNames[] = { /* sync with #defines */ @@ -281,8 +296,14 @@ *DowNames[], *ProgramName; extern int LineNumber; extern time_t TargetTime; +extern int LoadAverage; +extern int AddWeight; +extern int TickDecay; +extern int BurstRate; +extern int LoadThreshold; +extern int NumJobs; # if DEBUGGING extern int DebugFlags; extern char *DebugFlagNames[]; # endif /* DEBUGGING */ --- ../oldcron/job.c Mon Mar 9 05:41:47 1998 +++ job.c Sat Jan 2 19:51:33 1999 @@ -55,22 +55,29 @@ /* add it to the tail */ if (!jhead) { jhead=j; } else { jtail->next=j; } jtail = j; + NumJobs++; } int job_runqueue() { register job *j, *jn; register int run = 0; for (j=jhead; j; j=jn) { + if (LoadAverage > LoadThreshold) { + /* We've executed too much, clean up and stop. */ + jhead = j; + return 1; + } do_command(j->e, j->u); jn = j->next; free(j); run++; + NumJobs--; + LoadAverage += AddWeight; } jhead = jtail = NULL; return run; } --ELM917376811-8356-0_-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 11:35:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19342 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:35:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19335 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:35:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id LAA20783; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:17:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:17:31 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901261917.LAA20783@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kevin Day Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901261853.MAA15095@home.dragondata.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I have a somewhat unusual setup, where I have a server that several hundred :customers use, that has all of /home over an nfs mount, and each customer :has quite a few cron jobs that they like to execute every ten minutes or so. : :The problem is that they all want to execute their cron jobs on a */10 :minute frequency, so on every minute ending in '0', I suddenly have cron :spawning off a few hundred processes, bringing the machine's load average :above 15.0, and saturating my NFS link for quite a while. : :No amount of pleading with my users did much good, since they were just :following a template given to them by the software they were using. We had similar problems at BEST, especially on older machines. In fact, and this is quite amusing ... we ran into a /proc simultanious-access crashing bug precisely because 30 users were running botcheck scripts every 10 minutes. ( This was before we banned irc bots at BEST ). I finally gave up trying to get users to put crons in random minutes. My solution was: vi /var/cron/tabs/* (manually mix up the minutes boundry for jobs that people ran at common points, like the top of the hour) kill the cron process restart it That solved the problem pretty much permanently. Users tended to not bother to change the crons back once I had edited them. The other big problem is that some users just love running cron jobs once a minute, and sometimes when a machine gets loaded their jobs do not finish quickly enough and start building up. Weee! Adding such uses to cron.deny and disabling their crontabs solves the problem. :Can I get comments/suggestions about this? : :Kevin I like your idea. I think it is a good idea. I don't have time to review the actual coding, though. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 12:07:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23002 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:07:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22994 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:07:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA28106; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:06:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:06:54 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: "Russell L. Carter" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Error in vm_fault change In-Reply-To: <199901230616.XAA21124@psf.Pinyon.ORG> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Russell L. Carter wrote: > A single parameter like "priority" won't do it. Application > domains need scheduling partitions too. And there is no "GOD" algorithm > that fits all. I would suggest that if the scheduler needs to be reworked, > to fit at a minimum the kinds of work John lists, that people > think about how to provide a framework to plug in various scheduling > (process|memory) implementations. uhhhh, ye olde "strategy pattern". In Fall, 1997 someone here at CMU stuck a lottery algorithm scheduler into FreeBSD, and wrote a paper describing where they had to make changes to FreeBSD to allow for more pluggable schedulers. They didn't attempt to handle either real-time issues (and hence preemption for in-kernel processes) or SMP, but it might be a useful read. I'll see if I can dig up a reference. Allowing a pluggable scheduler via a kernel module would be pretty cool. I.e., today it's a realtime machine, tomorrow it's a single-user workstation, the next day a heavily loaded timesharing machine with CPU time partitioning. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 12:37:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26294 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:37:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26287 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:37:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA08253 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:36:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:36:32 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199901262036.MAA08253@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Error in vm_fault change In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:06:54 -0500 (EST) >From: Robert Watson >I.e., today it's a realtime machine, tomorrow it's a single-user >workstation, the next day a heavily loaded timesharing machine with CPU >time partitioning. I can see a value to this ability.... Back when I was an MVS (IBM mainframe) systems programmer, it wasn't uncommon for a machine to be set up to have differing SRM (? "System Resource Manager" seems to strike a resonant chord in my memory) "objective curves" depending on the expected workload, which would often vary depending on time-of-day: for example, during the day, the system would be weighted to favor interactive processes, while at night, it would switch to more of a batch mode of operation (for back-office file-crunching). Although the range of work handled reasonably adequately by modern UNIX systems is pretty awesome, the ability to favor one type of workload over another can give a sysadmin another "knob" to twist -- and it may merely be used more on a per-site basis than on a time-of-day basis, but it would be rather silly to assume that everyone's workload is the same. The boxes I'm responsible for here, for example, aren't under the kind of load (qualitatively or quantitatively) that the shellN boxes at BEST (Hi, Matt!) are, for example. (I consider this A Good Thing.) And the workload of one box may well differ from that of another; this is intentional. david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 12:39:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:39:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26657 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:39:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id MAA21275; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:39:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:39:47 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901262039.MAA21275@apollo.backplane.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just had a crash on my workstation. X froze up in the middle of a redraw, and the machine unresponsive to pings from the outside. The thing had dropped into DDB. I really wanted to see what DDB was trying to tell me so I could fix it, but I couldn't see it since it was still in X. I knew it was in DDB because I could type 'panic' and the machine rebooted :-) It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. Anybody have any ideas? -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 12:43:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27118 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:43:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feral-gw.feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27110 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:43:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by feral-gw.feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20692; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:43:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:43:02 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@feral-gw Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: David Wolfskill cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Error in vm_fault change In-Reply-To: <199901262036.MAA08253@pau-amma.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It would be a good thing to add knobs back in to try and give some control over interactive vs. single task throughput performance. Lacking knobs, configuration options would be good. > >From: Robert Watson > > >I.e., today it's a realtime machine, tomorrow it's a single-user > >workstation, the next day a heavily loaded timesharing machine with CPU > >time partitioning. > > I can see a value to this ability.... > > Back when I was an MVS (IBM mainframe) systems programmer, it wasn't > uncommon for a machine to be set up to have differing SRM (? "System > Resource Manager" seems to strike a resonant chord in my memory) > "objective curves" depending on the expected workload, which would often > vary depending on time-of-day: for example, during the day, the system > would be weighted to favor interactive processes, while at night, it > would switch to more of a batch mode of operation (for back-office > file-crunching). > > Although the range of work handled reasonably adequately by modern UNIX > systems is pretty awesome, the ability to favor one type of workload > over another can give a sysadmin another "knob" to twist -- and it may > merely be used more on a per-site basis than on a time-of-day basis, but > it would be rather silly to assume that everyone's workload is the same. > > The boxes I'm responsible for here, for example, aren't under the kind > of load (qualitatively or quantitatively) that the shellN boxes at BEST > (Hi, Matt!) are, for example. (I consider this A Good Thing.) And the > workload of one box may well differ from that of another; this is > intentional. > > david > -- > David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator > dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 12:44:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27230 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:44:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27223 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:44:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id MAA21318; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:44:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:44:27 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901262044.MAA21318@apollo.backplane.com> To: David Wolfskill Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Error in vm_fault change References: <199901262036.MAA08253@pau-amma.whistle.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :The boxes I'm responsible for here, for example, aren't under the kind :of load (qualitatively or quantitatively) that the shellN boxes at BEST :(Hi, Matt!) are, for example. (I consider this A Good Thing.) And the :workload of one box may well differ from that of another; this is :intentional. : :david :-- :David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator :dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 I did a huge amount of playing around with FreeBSD's scheduler back in the 'early days' of BEST ( we were actually running FreeBSD for a bit before we made the SGI blunder ). In those days, our two shell machines were running at a constant load of 15 or more. I tried all sorts of stuff, but none of it performed significantly better then the existing scheduler. And, as cpu speeds started to increase, it became less and less of an issue. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 13:01:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29383 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:01:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29371 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:00:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA21512; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:00:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:00:53 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901262100.NAA21512@apollo.backplane.com> To: Matthew Jacob Cc: David Wolfskill , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Error in vm_fault change References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :It would be a good thing to add knobs back in to try and give some control :over interactive vs. single task throughput performance. : Well, you know what they say: Knobs are made to be broken ... off! -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 13:04:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29620 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:04:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feral-gw.feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29615 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:04:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by feral-gw.feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20770; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:03:51 -0800 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:03:51 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@feral-gw Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Matthew Dillon cc: David Wolfskill , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Error in vm_fault change In-Reply-To: <199901262100.NAA21512@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :It would be a good thing to add knobs back in to try and give some control > :over interactive vs. single task throughput performance. > : > > Well, you know what they say: Knobs are made to be broken ... off! > Yes. In general I agree with you. On the other hand, it may be too hard a problem to solve without some kind of hint. If not knobs, a config option. The needs of a desktop are not the same as a file server and cannot be inferred from short term metrics. Long term metrics, maybe, but who want's to wait 2 weeks for a file server to become optimal? -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 13:10:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00498 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:10:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA00472 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:10:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 14982 invoked from network); 26 Jan 1999 21:09:58 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 1999 21:09:58 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA01076; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:09:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901262109.QAA01076@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Error in vm_fault change In-Reply-To: <199901262044.MAA21318@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 26, 99 12:44:27 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:09:58 -0500 (EST) Cc: dhw@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > > I did a huge amount of playing around with FreeBSD's scheduler back > in the 'early days' of BEST ( we were actually running FreeBSD for a bit > before we made the SGI blunder ). In those days, our two shell machines > were running at a constant load of 15 or more. > > I tried all sorts of stuff, but none of it performed significantly better > then the existing scheduler. And, as cpu speeds started to increase, > it became less and less of an issue. > Back in the very early days of FreeBSD (around 1.1), I noticed that interactive performance was poor (relative to SVR3.) When reviewing the scheduler code (actually the fork code), I saw that on a session basis, a user could "boost" their priority by performing fork operations. Those fork operations forgot previous CPU usage. In order to provide smooth performance, I added a cpu scheduler stats accumulation for the parent process so that the "session" would appear to have consistant cpu usage, and therefor consistant running priority. For most if it's life, FreeBSD has had this change, and does demonstrate that small changes in the scheduler behavior can have a significant effect on perceived performance. Now, a parent process accumulates the effects of it's children (upon their exit) so that there is no apparent priority boost, and more smooth interative behavior. Note that SVR4 with it's new scheduler (at the time) has the same problem that FreeBSD originally did. On retrospect, I reviewed SVR3 and found that it had a similar mechanism that I added to FreeBSD for recent cpu usage reverse inheritance from children to parent. Recently, NetBSD broke that reverse inheritance (that they either borrowed from FreeBSD, or developed independently), and there were cries about the terrible interactive performance!!! Of course, they fixed it ASAP... -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 13:15:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01035 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:15:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA01030 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:15:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 18535 invoked from network); 26 Jan 1999 21:13:37 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 1999 21:13:37 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA01092; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:13:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901262113.QAA01092@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-Reply-To: <199901262039.MAA21275@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 26, 99 12:39:47 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:13:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > I just had a crash on my workstation. X froze up in the middle of a > redraw, and the machine unresponsive to pings from the outside. > > The thing had dropped into DDB. I really wanted to see what DDB was > trying to tell me so I could fix it, but I couldn't see it since it > was still in X. > > I knew it was in DDB because I could type 'panic' and > the machine rebooted :-) > > It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. > Anybody have any ideas? > Make a bios call to the video bios :-). (I know that it sounds crazy, but all it should take is saving the state of memory for the bios, and use a trampoline.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 13:17:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01400 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:17:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA01393 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:17:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 19453 invoked from network); 26 Jan 1999 21:14:39 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 1999 21:14:39 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA01098; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:14:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901262114.QAA01098@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Error in vm_fault change In-Reply-To: from Robert Watson at "Jan 26, 99 03:06:54 pm" To: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:14:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: rcarter@pinyon.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson said: > > In Fall, 1997 someone here at CMU stuck a lottery algorithm scheduler into > FreeBSD, and wrote a paper describing where they had to make changes to > FreeBSD to allow for more pluggable schedulers. They didn't attempt to > handle either real-time issues (and hence preemption for in-kernel > processes) or SMP, but it might be a useful read. I'll see if I can dig > up a reference. Allowing a pluggable scheduler via a kernel module would > be pretty cool. > I'd love to have a pointer to the paper... -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 13:57:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06304 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:57:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06294 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:57:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id NAA29637; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:54:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id NAA20256; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:54:10 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id OAA24979; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:54:09 -0700 Message-ID: <36AE3981.C3F59FF1@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:54:09 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Day CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901261853.MAA15095@home.dragondata.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kevin Day wrote: > > I talked briefly about this with Paul Vixie (cron's author), while we had > differing ideas about how to accomplish this, my patches have been running > for over a month now on a production system, and have worked very well. > > [...] > > Paul's idea was to limit the number of children cron has running at a time, > hwoever for me this wasn't effective, as the user's jobs tend to hang around > for a long time. > > Can I get comments/suggestions about this? Commenting on the approach, rather than your implemenation: Wouldn't it be cleaner to limit it by load average rather than number of jobs? This would tend to allow small, one-shot cron entries that really don't eat a lot of resources to continue running on time, while saving the machine from the monster processes. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 14:02:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06997 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:02:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.inktomi.com (mercury.inktomi.com [209.1.32.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06986 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:02:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jplevyak@inktomi.com) Received: from proxydev.inktomi.com (proxydev.inktomi.com [209.1.32.44]) by mercury.inktomi.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA17925; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:03:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jplevyak@localhost) by proxydev.inktomi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA24501; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:02:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19990126140251.G19158@proxydev.inktomi.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:02:51 -0800 From: John Plevyak To: Robert Nordier , John Plevyak Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: raw devices and disk geometry References: <19990122124309.C11064@proxydev.inktomi.com> <199901222319.BAA02045@ceia.nordier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199901222319.BAA02045@ceia.nordier.com>; from Robert Nordier on Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 01:19:07AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanx, but I am not sure this allows me to get the size of a raw partition. If I call: fd = open("/dev/rwd2c", O_RDONLY, 0); ioctl(fd, DIOCGDINFO, &dl) I get > /dev/rwd0c: > a: 65536 > b: 282304 > c: 4305357 > d: 0 > e: 65536 > f: 3891981 > g: 0 > h: 0 The "c:" portion of which does not match the "c:" portion of the whole disk in your example: > /dev/rwd0: > a: 0 > b: 0 > c: 8438850 > d: 0 > e: 0 > f: 0 > g: 0 > h: 0 So this does not seem to be sufficient to determine the size of /dev/rwd0c on your system. What I really need to know is a way to determine from /dev/rwd0c 1. the main disk (/dev/rwd0) so I can get its table 2. which partition of the main disk corresponds to /dev/rwd0c On my disk which does not have a FreeBSD slice, the program returns: /dev/rwd2 a: 0 b: 0 c: 4124736 d: 0 e: 0 f: 0 g: 0 h: 0 /dev/rwd2c a: 0 b: 0 c: 4124736 d: 0 e: 0 f: 0 g: 0 h: 0 Which is helpful if I assume that c: on /dev/rwd2c is the whole disk, but given your counter example above I am not enclined to do that. Any hints you could give me would be much appreciated. Also, why shouldn't lseek work on a device? Is this something we would like FreeBSD to do, or is the current undefined behavior what we want? Given that this would solve my problem I would consider making a patch if there was some expectation that it would be accepted. Thanx again, john On Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 01:19:07AM +0200, Robert Nordier wrote: > John Plevyak wrote: > > > I am trying to find the disk of a raw disk partition (/dev/rwd2c). > > > > I have noticed the following in 3.0-CURRENT Jan 12: > > > > 1) DIOCGPART does not seem to return valid pointers: > > > > > 2) lseek on raw disks does not seem to produce an error > > when the size is exceeded. In fact, it acts very > > oddly when given SEEK_END > > > 3) lseek followed by read *can* be used to determine the size of > > the partition of course this requires a binary search. > > > > Are these known issues? Is there a better way of determining > > the size of a partition from a program? > > DIOCGPART is for internal use and not used outside the kernel. > You can't necessarily rely on lseek() when applied to a device. > > However, what you want to do seems fairly simple: > > if (ioctl(fd, DIOCGDINFO, &dl) == -1) > errx(1, "%s: IOCTL(DIOCGDINFO)", argv[1]); > for (i = 0; i < dl.d_npartitions; i++) > printf("%c: %u\n", 'a' + i, dl.d_partitions[i].p_size); > > With sample output: > > /dev/rwd0: > a: 0 > b: 0 > c: 8438850 > d: 0 > e: 0 > f: 0 > g: 0 > h: 0 > > /dev/rwd0c: > a: 65536 > b: 282304 > c: 4305357 > d: 0 > e: 65536 > f: 3891981 > g: 0 > h: 0 > > The 'c' (raw) partitions give, respectively, the size of the whole > disk, and of the FreeBSD slice ("fdisk partition"). > > -- > Robert Nordier -- John Bradley Plevyak, PhD, jplevyak@inktomi.com, PGP KeyID: 051130BD Inktomi Corporation, 1900 S. Norfolk Street, Suite 110, San Mateo, CA 94403 W:(415)653-2830 F:(415)653-2801 P:(888)491-1332/5103192436.4911332@pagenet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 14:16:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08596 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:16:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08587 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:16:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA29331; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:15:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:15:49 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: "John S. Dyson" cc: rcarter@pinyon.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Error in vm_fault change In-Reply-To: <199901262114.QAA01098@y.dyson.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, John S. Dyson wrote: > > In Fall, 1997 someone here at CMU stuck a lottery algorithm scheduler into > > FreeBSD, and wrote a paper describing where they had to make changes to > > FreeBSD to allow for more pluggable schedulers. They didn't attempt to > > handle either real-time issues (and hence preemption for in-kernel > > processes) or SMP, but it might be a useful read. I'll see if I can dig > > up a reference. Allowing a pluggable scheduler via a kernel module would > > be pretty cool. > > > I'd love to have a pointer to the paper... John, Here's a URL pointing to the document containing that paper: http://reports-archive.adm.cs.cmu.edu/anon/1998/abstracts/98-103.html The project was done for the graduate level software systems class here, so is with a collection of other papers/projects of varying degrees of quality (some are better than others). The one you're interested in is: Proportional-Share Scheduling: Implementation and Evaluation in a Widely-Deployed Operating System, David Petrou and John Milford, pp. 17-28 In the postscript document, it actually appears to start on page 20. The abstract reads as follows: This paper explores the feasibility of using lottery scheduling, a proportional-share resource management algorithm, to schedule processes under the FreeBSD operating system. Proportional-share scheduling enables flexible control over relative process execution rates and processor load insulation among groups of processes. We show that a straight implementation of lottery scheduling performs worse than the standard FreeBSD scheduler. This initial result prompted us to extend lottery scheduling. Except for one test we run, our resulting system performs within one percent of the FreeBSD scheduler. We describe our design, evaluate our implementation, and relate our experience in deploying our lottery scheduler on production machines. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 14:26:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10163 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:26:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10062 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:25:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) id PAA35349; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:25:48 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199901262225.PAA35349@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-Reply-To: <199901262039.MAA21275@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 26, 99 12:39:47 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:25:48 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote... > I just had a crash on my workstation. X froze up in the middle of a > redraw, and the machine unresponsive to pings from the outside. > > The thing had dropped into DDB. I really wanted to see what DDB was > trying to tell me so I could fix it, but I couldn't see it since it > was still in X. > > I knew it was in DDB because I could type 'panic' and > the machine rebooted :-) > > It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. > Anybody have any ideas? That sort of scenario is exactly why my primary desktop machine at home runs with a serial console. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 14:31:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10926 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:31:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hawaii.conterra.com (hawaii.conterra.com [209.12.164.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10881 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:31:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from myself@conterra.com) Received: from dmaddox.conterra.com (dmaddox.conterra.com [209.12.169.48]) by hawaii.conterra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15961; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:31:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (from myself@localhost) by dmaddox.conterra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id RAA01787; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:31:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from myself) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:31:22 -0500 From: "Donald J . Maddox" To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: dmaddox@conterra.com, Mike Smith , Tom Torrance , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 boot panic Message-ID: <19990126173122.B1725@dmaddox.conterra.com> Reply-To: dmaddox@conterra.com References: <19990125181232.A1172@dmaddox.conterra.com> <199901252324.PAA12570@dingo.cdrom.com> <19990125183901.A1404@dmaddox.conterra.com> <36AD2B79.8CAF5CA2@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <36AD2B79.8CAF5CA2@newsguy.com>; from Daniel C. Sobral on Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 11:42:01AM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of course, you're right. I rebuilt the loader from a fresh cvsup, and it works as expected now. On Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 11:42:01AM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > "Donald J . Maddox" wrote: > > > > Ok. First, the issue of currency. As I stated earlier, all this > > discussion is based on a kernel and world built Jan 24: > > Meaning, cvsupped on the 23 or earlier 24 (whatever that means in > your TZ... :)? That's probably what Mike means by "out of date", > since the loader was broken for a few hours on that day. > > > With this boot.conf, I don't have to change my fstab. If I remove > > root_disk_unit, the / mount fails unless I change the device to > > /dev/wd1a in fstab. > > And this sounds pretty much like the symptoms of said broken loader. > > When using -current, "up to date" means "cvsup again". > > (On the bright side, you can "cd /sys/boot; make depend all install" > to replace the loader, without making a new world or kernel) > > -- > Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) > dcs@newsguy.com > > If you sell your soul to the Devil and all you get is an MCSE from > it, you haven't gotten market rate. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 14:46:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12909 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:46:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12903 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:46:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA22001; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:46:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:46:36 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901262246.OAA22001@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? References: <199901262225.PAA35349@panzer.plutotech.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. :> Anybody have any ideas? : : :That sort of scenario is exactly why my primary desktop machine at :home runs with a serial console. : :Ken :-- :Kenneth Merry :ken@plutotech.com Well, yes, and my server never runs X. But I'm talking about by personal desktop diskless BOOTP workstation :-) Oh, I suppose I could run a serial console on it, but it would be a hassle. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 14:56:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14028 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:56:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14017 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:56:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA22114; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:56:10 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901262256.OAA22114@apollo.backplane.com> To: Wes Peters Cc: Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901261853.MAA15095@home.dragondata.com> <36AE3981.C3F59FF1@softweyr.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> hwoever for me this wasn't effective, as the user's jobs tend to hang around :> for a long time. :> :> Can I get comments/suggestions about this? : :Commenting on the approach, rather than your implemenation: : :Wouldn't it be cleaner to limit it by load average rather than number of :jobs? This would tend to allow small, one-shot cron entries that really :don't eat a lot of resources to continue running on time, while saving :the machine from the monster processes. : :-- : Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? : :Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 :Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com No, this won't work at all. I have direct experience trying to regulate things by load average. The problem is that the load average takes too long to ramp up and ramp down. By the time it's ramped up, cron may have already forked a thousand jobs. Plus if the system gets loaded on its own, you risk an effective disablement of cron alltogether. We had lots of problems like this with sendmail 4 years ago at BEST. There is literally no way to win if you try to regulate the system based on the load average. This is, in fact, what prompted me to submit a patch to Eric Allman a couple of years ago to make sendmail's MaxDaemonChildren option apply to queue runs as well as server forks. Sendmail's load average-baesd regulation doesn't work worth beans, but putting a max limit on the number of forked children and queue-running children solved nearly all of sendmail's load-related problems. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 15:12:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15461 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:12:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from snc2.snc (snc5.spacebridge.com [206.191.3.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15455 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:12:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from MMonani@spacebridge.com) Received: by snc2.spacebridge.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:16:22 -0500 Message-ID: <535C51E37384D211BBE400A0C9932501063BA0@snc2.spacebridge.com> From: Mittal Monani To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Newbie questions : please help Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:16:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi BSD Gurus, I am beginning to learn the network stack implementation in freebsd. I have the venerable tomes from W R Stevens (TCP/IP Illustrated Vol I and II) and "The Design of the 4.4 BSD Operating System" by McKusik et al. 1.Are there any other books/net links that you would recommend? I have started exploring the newbie area of Freebsd website. 2.What's the best place to find info on latest RFCs being implemented or new projects being done for the networking stack of Freebsd? 3.How do I find out which RFCs are currently implemented? I am specifically interested in knowing if the following RFCs are implemented in Freebsd 2.2.8: --RFC 1323 --RFC 1812 --RFC 1483 --RFC 2001 --RFC 2018 4.I am interested in experimenting with integrating the stack with an RTOS (VxWorks) after removing the built-in stack and then optimizing it for performance. I cannot license the source from the RTOS vendor. Any pointers to useful information? Any experience you might care to share? TIA, Mittal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 15:32:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17741 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:32:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles131.castles.com [208.214.165.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17736 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:32:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19662; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:29:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901262329.PAA19662@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:39:47 PST." <199901262039.MAA21275@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:29:06 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. > Anybody have any ideas? Please search the archives for discussions of this. The short answer is "it can't be done". You should be using gdb-remote anyway. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 16:01:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21024 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:01:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atl.bellsouth.net (mail.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21017 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:01:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (root@host-209-214-67-120.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.67.120]) by mail.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06525; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:01:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA01309; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:18:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com Cc: rcarter@pinyon.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:21:01 -0800 (PST)" <199901260721.XAA14049@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199901260721.XAA14049@apollo.backplane.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990126191810C.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:18:10 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 23 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:21:01 -0800 (PST) > :Ok, dumb question, how does this improve on rdist? > : > :"This program is relatively simple in design: It takes the source and > :"creates as near an exact duplicate on the destination as possible. It > :"has the following features: > : > :Russell > > Have you ever tried copying whole trees with rdist? It isn't fun. > rdist can't do half the things cpdup does. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > How do its features compare with CVSup? Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 17:34:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03460 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:34:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03455 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:34:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id RAA27041; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:34:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:34:32 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901270134.RAA27041@apollo.backplane.com> To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: rcarter@pinyon.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question References: <199901260721.XAA14049@apollo.backplane.com> <19990126191810C.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :From: Matthew Dillon :Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question :Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:21:01 -0800 (PST) : :> :Ok, dumb question, how does this improve on rdist? :> : :> :"This program is relatively simple in design: It takes the source and :> :"creates as near an exact duplicate on the destination as possible. It :> :"has the following features: :> : :> :Russell :> :> Have you ever tried copying whole trees with rdist? It isn't fun. :> rdist can't do half the things cpdup does. :> :> -Matt :> Matthew Dillon :> : :How do its features compare with CVSup? : :Jerry Hicks :wghicks@bellsouth.net cvsup and cpdup are two totally different programs. cvsup manages CVS trees. cpdup is a templating/mirroring tool. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 17:46:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04925 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:46:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04862 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:46:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA27675; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:44:10 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199901270144.TAA27675@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901261917.LAA20783@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 26, 1999 11:17:31 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:44:09 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > : > :No amount of pleading with my users did much good, since they were just > :following a template given to them by the software they were using. > > We had similar problems at BEST, especially on older machines. In fact, > and this is quite amusing ... we ran into a /proc simultanious-access > crashing bug precisely because 30 users were running botcheck scripts > every 10 minutes. ( This was before we banned irc bots at BEST ). > > I finally gave up trying to get users to put crons in random minutes. > > My solution was: > > vi /var/cron/tabs/* > > (manually mix up the minutes boundry for jobs that people ran at > common points, like the top of the hour) > > kill the cron process > restart it > Tried that, but it doesn't stay fixed long enough, and we've had the occasional disgruntled user put 5000 'find /'s in his crontab and watch the machine explode. > That solved the problem pretty much permanently. Users tended to not > bother to change the crons back once I had edited them. > > The other big problem is that some users just love running cron jobs > once a minute, and sometimes when a machine gets loaded their jobs > do not finish quickly enough and start building up. Weee! Yep. This patch seems to fix that. It queues jobs up. After it reaches a huge number of queued jobs, it starts doubling the execution rate. Every time you double the maximum number of allowable jobs in the queue, you double the run speed. Very coarse, but it does self tune to catch up. > > Adding such uses to cron.deny and disabling their crontabs solves > the problem. > > :Can I get comments/suggestions about this? > : > :Kevin > > I like your idea. I think it is a good idea. I don't have time to > review the actual coding, though. > Ok... I'll keep playing with it and see if I can find any holes in my logic. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 18:09:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07208 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:09:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07191 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:09:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id SAA27656; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:08:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:08:58 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901270208.SAA27656@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kevin Day Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901270144.TAA27675@home.dragondata.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> :> vi /var/cron/tabs/* :> :> (manually mix up the minutes boundry for jobs that people ran at :> common points, like the top of the hour) :> :> kill the cron process :> restart it :> : :Tried that, but it doesn't stay fixed long enough, and we've had the :occasional disgruntled user put 5000 'find /'s in his crontab and watch the :machine explode. Woa! It's trivial to handle that situation, just give your users reasonable resource limits. All of BEST's users are placed in the 'standard' class. I then have a 'standard' entry in /etc/login.conf that gives them reasonable resource limits. It's possible that due to the way cron works, the resource limits is not being held to, but since cron runs a shell script and that runs the find, the resource limits should be held to. If not, we can fix cron. We occassionally had some idiot IRC hacker login and try to take down the machine from a shell prompt, usually with a fork attack, but since we've put in the resource limits they've never been able to do it. It's quite amusing. I gave rather generous resource limits -- normal users usually don't even know they are there. :> The other big problem is that some users just love running cron jobs :> once a minute, and sometimes when a machine gets loaded their jobs :> do not finish quickly enough and start building up. Weee! : :Yep. This patch seems to fix that. It queues jobs up. After it reaches a :huge number of queued jobs, it starts doubling the execution rate. Every :time you double the maximum number of allowable jobs in the queue, you :double the run speed. Very coarse, but it does self tune to catch up. : :Kevin -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 18:20:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08568 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:20:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.enter.net (mail.enter.net [204.170.70.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08550; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:20:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dh@enter.net) Received: from dh (m44atwn-2-7.enter.net [204.170.16.161]) by mail.enter.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA00324; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:20:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003701be499b$05c1d460$0300a8c0@dh.athome.net> From: "Daniel Hauer" To: "Markus Stumpf" Cc: , , Subject: Re: X question Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:16:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi There, Just to let you know, I found a simpler way to do it.... you may want to keep it in mind for others: Just put this in your root shell file (mine is bash) XAUTHORITY=/(your home dir path)/.Xauthority export XAUTHORITY Since you recreate XAUTHORITY each time you login through xdm as a user, when you su from an xterm, xdm reads the variable XAUTHORITY which points to your valid one.... neat.... Regards, Daniel Hauer. http://www.enter.net "The Road To The Internet Starts There!" *************************************************************************** Windoze is for GAMES, UNIX is for the rest of us. UNIX is like the sights on a loaded gun. If you aim the gun at your foot and pull the trigger, it is the basic function of UNIX to accurately deliver the bullet from the gun to the target. In this case, it's your foot. *************************************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Markus Stumpf To: Kaleb S. KEITHLEY ; dh@enter.net Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 1:09 AM Subject: Re: X question >On Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 08:44:26PM -0500, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: >> Rather off-topic for FreeBSD-hackers--- > >I've removed hackers from the Cc: > >> The way around this is: >> [ .. ] >> Now root will be able to run X programs in your session. >> >> Once you log out and log back in you'll get new credentials and you'll >> need to repeat the above steps again. > >How about > ># export XAUTHORITY=~user/.Xauthority > >Should do the same trick and save you from fiddling with the credentials. > >And as the latter user is root there should be no problem in reading >the ~user/.Xauthority file (unless you live on a NFS partition and >root is mapped to some unpriviledged user in /etc/exports). > > \Maex > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 18:36:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10647 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:36:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10642 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:36:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id UAA02717; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:36:17 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199901270236.UAA02717@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901270208.SAA27656@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 26, 1999 6: 8:58 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:36:16 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :> > :> vi /var/cron/tabs/* > :> > :> (manually mix up the minutes boundry for jobs that people ran at > :> common points, like the top of the hour) > :> > :> kill the cron process > :> restart it > :> > : > :Tried that, but it doesn't stay fixed long enough, and we've had the > :occasional disgruntled user put 5000 'find /'s in his crontab and watch the > :machine explode. > > Woa! It's trivial to handle that situation, just give your users > reasonable resource limits. > > All of BEST's users are placed in the 'standard' class. I then have > a 'standard' entry in /etc/login.conf that gives them reasonable resource > limits. > > It's possible that due to the way cron works, the resource limits is not > being held to, but since cron runs a shell script and that runs the find, > the resource limits should be held to. If not, we can fix cron. > > We occassionally had some idiot IRC hacker login and try to take down > the machine from a shell prompt, usually with a fork attack, but since > we've put in the resource limits they've never been able to do it. It's > quite amusing. I gave rather generous resource limits -- normal users > usually don't even know they are there. We do have pretty strict resource limits already. Even 10-20 find processes running, restarting every minute as they finish/exceed cpu limit is nasty. :) Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 19:36:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16687 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:36:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16603 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:35:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id EAA24192 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:35:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 0809F1513; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:15:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:15:20 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? Message-ID: <19990127001520.A77883@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199901261853.MAA15095@home.dragondata.com> <36AE3981.C3F59FF1@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <36AE3981.C3F59FF1@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 02:54:09PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4994 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Wes Peters: > Wouldn't it be cleaner to limit it by load average rather than number of > jobs? This would tend to allow small, one-shot cron entries that really Problem is that it can be easily defeated... Sendmail has this kind of setting (queues everything at load >8, stop accepting at load >12) but, when you're under a mail storm, sendmail will fork childs so fast that you'll end up with more than one hundred of them _before_ it will be able to find that the load is too much (am I clear here ? :-)). That's how, with the default settings, you can have more than 170 simultaneous sendmails on a poor 486/33 with 16 MB. Not funny... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #69: Mon Jan 18 02:02:12 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 20:10:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20977 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:10:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA20941 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:10:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id NAA23884; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:10:13 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36AE8D76.9C57880B@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:52:22 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? References: <199901262329.PAA19662@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > > It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. > > Anybody have any ideas? > > Please search the archives for discussions of this. The short answer > is "it can't be done". And the long answer, of course, is the same thing, written as if it was a government official document. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com If you sell your soul to the Devil and all you get is an MCSE from it, you haven't gotten market rate. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 21:14:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27754 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:14:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lamb.sas.com (lamb.sas.com [192.35.83.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27742 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:14:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jwd@unx.sas.com) Received: from mozart (mozart.unx.sas.com [192.58.184.8]) by lamb.sas.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA06097; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:14:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from bb01f39.unx.sas.com by mozart (5.65c/SAS/Domains/5-6-90) id AA13131; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:14:34 -0500 Received: (from jwd@localhost) by bb01f39.unx.sas.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA64321; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:14:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jwd) From: "John W. DeBoskey" Message-Id: <199901270514.AAA64321@bb01f39.unx.sas.com> Subject: Re: Goofy telnetd thing in 3.0 In-Reply-To: From Peter Wemm at "Jan 25, 1999 5:52:10 am" To: peter@netplex.com.au (Peter Wemm) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:14:34 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Actually, unless I am mistaken from when I looked into this a few months back, the 'make release' process is installing the kerberized versions of the binaries instead of the defaults. My question then, and now, is why was this change made since I beleive it was done by accident, and when can we fix it? just my 0.02, John > "Joe Shevland" wrote: > > Yip, I installed 3.0-RELEASE last night and I'm getting the > > same problem... I haven't had time to modify gettytab yet. > > > > Thing is, I receive the blank one when I telnet across the > > network, and I receive the full one when I log in from > > the console. At least I haven't intentionally altered > > gettytab, so Im not sure... > > > > Regards. > > It's because the kerberized telnetd has fallen behind the normal telnetd > and hasn't had the uname() hooks installed into it. > > Cheers, > - -Peter > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 26 23:46:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10651 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:46:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA10645 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:46:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA33993; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:46:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199901270746.IAA33993@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-Reply-To: <199901262329.PAA19662@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jan 26, 1999 3:29: 6 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:46:17 +0100 (CET) Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Mike Smith wrote: > > > > It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. > > Anybody have any ideas? > > Please search the archives for discussions of this. The short answer > is "it can't be done". Erhm, well, it CAN be done, but not easily. I have started on a X server that uses libvgl as the underlying graphics "glue". Since libvgl can (well my local version) use the BIOS to switch to hires VESA modes, the kernel "knows" how to get out of graphics mode when something bad happens. However you can be screwed so bad that even this doesn't work. The other downside is that such an Xserver redefines slow... - Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 01:26:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19547 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 01:26:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA19542 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 01:26:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 4360 invoked from network); 27 Jan 1999 09:26:18 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 1999 09:26:18 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA00689; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:26:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901270926.EAA00689@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901262256.OAA22114@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 26, 99 02:56:10 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:26:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > > Sendmail's load average-baesd regulation doesn't work worth beans, > but putting a max limit on the number of forked children and queue-running > children solved nearly all of sendmail's load-related problems. > Get your old DSP textbooks out: Create a new filter (instead of the very slow attack/decay load average), with a fast attack (but maybe not a process fork limit, because it is too static), and fairly slow decay. If you need help, I can write a filter, and the current 10Hz clock is probably quick enough. The algorithm would be similar to my new VM limit code (which I haven't released to anyone yet.) There is a weighted peak limit at the sample rate, but it is averaged in such a way that peak limit doesn't mess things up like a hard process (or VM page count) limit would. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 04:21:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08148 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:21:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m2-39-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08143 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:21:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA22838; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:20:02 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199901271220.OAA22838@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: raw devices and disk geometry In-Reply-To: <19990126140251.G19158@proxydev.inktomi.com> from John Plevyak at "Jan 26, 99 02:02:51 pm" To: jplevyak@inktomi.com (John Plevyak) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:19:59 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Thanx, but I am not sure this allows me to get the size of a raw partition. > If I call: > > fd = open("/dev/rwd2c", O_RDONLY, 0); > ioctl(fd, DIOCGDINFO, &dl) > > I get > > > /dev/rwd0c: > > a: 65536 > > b: 282304 > > c: 4305357 > > d: 0 > > e: 65536 > > f: 3891981 > > g: 0 > > h: 0 > > The "c:" portion of which does not match the "c:" portion of the > whole disk in your example: > > > /dev/rwd0: > > a: 0 > > b: 0 > > c: 8438850 > > d: 0 > > e: 0 > > f: 0 > > g: 0 > > h: 0 > > So this does not seem to be sufficient to determine the size > of /dev/rwd0c on your system. What I really need to know > is a way to determine from /dev/rwd0c > > 1. the main disk (/dev/rwd0) so I can get its table > 2. which partition of the main disk corresponds to /dev/rwd0c > > On my disk which does not have a FreeBSD slice, the program returns: > > /dev/rwd2 > a: 0 > b: 0 > c: 4124736 > d: 0 > e: 0 > f: 0 > g: 0 > h: 0 > > /dev/rwd2c > a: 0 > b: 0 > c: 4124736 > d: 0 > e: 0 > f: 0 > g: 0 > h: 0 > > Which is helpful if I assume that c: on /dev/rwd2c is the whole > disk, but given your counter example above I am not enclined to do that. > > Any hints you could give me would be much appreciated. The info I gave was correct, but different terminology and a different set of assumptions are probably getting in the way. I think you need to look at the code of an actual utility that does this stuff, and that you can also try out. I'd suggest newfs_msdos(8), which will allow you to specify any of o the whole physical disk o a slice (what DOS calls a partition) o a partition (what BSD calls a partition) as a target device, and will print out the size, disk geometry, etc. (see the function getdiskinfo in src/sbin/newfs_msdos/newfs_msdos.c). You could also look at /usr/share/doc/tutorials/diskformat and fdisk(8), disklabel(5), disktab(5), and disklabel(8). > Also, why shouldn't lseek work on a device? Is this something > we would like FreeBSD to do, or is the current undefined behavior > what we want? Given that this would solve my problem I would consider > making a patch if there was some expectation that it would be accepted. You can't expect lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_END) to work as you expect unless the file descriptor is associated with a regular file. For other file types, file size information is not available at that level. "It's a UNIX thing," and there's no patching it now. Size information usually is available -- in the FreeBSD case, via ioctl -- but not very portably across UNIX-like systems. > > Thanx again, > john > > > On Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 01:19:07AM +0200, Robert Nordier wrote: > > John Plevyak wrote: > > > > > I am trying to find the disk of a raw disk partition (/dev/rwd2c). > > > > > > I have noticed the following in 3.0-CURRENT Jan 12: > > > > > > 1) DIOCGPART does not seem to return valid pointers: > > > > > > > > 2) lseek on raw disks does not seem to produce an error > > > when the size is exceeded. In fact, it acts very > > > oddly when given SEEK_END > > > > > 3) lseek followed by read *can* be used to determine the size of > > > the partition of course this requires a binary search. > > > > > > Are these known issues? Is there a better way of determining > > > the size of a partition from a program? > > > > DIOCGPART is for internal use and not used outside the kernel. > > You can't necessarily rely on lseek() when applied to a device. > > > > However, what you want to do seems fairly simple: > > > > if (ioctl(fd, DIOCGDINFO, &dl) == -1) > > errx(1, "%s: IOCTL(DIOCGDINFO)", argv[1]); > > for (i = 0; i < dl.d_npartitions; i++) > > printf("%c: %u\n", 'a' + i, dl.d_partitions[i].p_size); > > > > With sample output: > > > > /dev/rwd0: > > a: 0 > > b: 0 > > c: 8438850 > > d: 0 > > e: 0 > > f: 0 > > g: 0 > > h: 0 > > > > /dev/rwd0c: > > a: 65536 > > b: 282304 > > c: 4305357 > > d: 0 > > e: 65536 > > f: 3891981 > > g: 0 > > h: 0 > > > > The 'c' (raw) partitions give, respectively, the size of the whole > > disk, and of the FreeBSD slice ("fdisk partition"). > > > > -- > > Robert Nordier > > -- > John Bradley Plevyak, PhD, jplevyak@inktomi.com, PGP KeyID: 051130BD > Inktomi Corporation, 1900 S. Norfolk Street, Suite 110, San Mateo, CA 94403 > W:(415)653-2830 F:(415)653-2801 P:(888)491-1332/5103192436.4911332@pagenet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 04:26:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08667 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:26:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08662 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:26:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id VAA12509; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:26:03 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36AEFF42.16C1ED0D@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:57:54 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901261853.MAA15095@home.dragondata.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kevin Day wrote: > > > These patches limit the number of jobs cron will start per second, with a > initial burst, a hard limit, as well as a 'burst mode', if the number of > jobs on the 'to do list' is geting excessively high. How do you select which jobs get executed? I fear a DoS attack might be possible unless you somehow prevent a user to always get the same "place" in the execution queue. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com If you sell your soul to the Devil and all you get is an MCSE from it, you haven't gotten market rate. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 04:26:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08812 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:26:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08807 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:26:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id VAA12529; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:26:11 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36AF0043.AF647B92@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:02:12 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Day CC: Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901270144.TAA27675@home.dragondata.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kevin Day wrote: > > Yep. This patch seems to fix that. It queues jobs up. After it reaches a > huge number of queued jobs, it starts doubling the execution rate. Every > time you double the maximum number of allowable jobs in the queue, you > double the run speed. Very coarse, but it does self tune to catch up. Oh, and, btw, I didn't see any "this is a huge number of queued jobs" parameter. Don't you think people would like to have control over that, including the ability to say "there is no such a thing"? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com If you sell your soul to the Devil and all you get is an MCSE from it, you haven't gotten market rate. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 05:02:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12402 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:02:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA12385 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:02:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA96221; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:04:19 GMT Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:04:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Mike Smith cc: Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-Reply-To: <199901262329.PAA19662@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. > > Anybody have any ideas? > > Please search the archives for discussions of this. The short answer > is "it can't be done". I don't understand why we can't use VM86 bios calls to switch modes these days. Mind you, I don't really understand the VM86 code. > > You should be using gdb-remote anyway. Of course! -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 05:45:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16565 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:45:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA16558 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:45:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA34655; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:45:14 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199901271345.OAA34655@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-Reply-To: from Doug Rabson at "Jan 27, 1999 1: 4:19 pm" To: dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:45:14 +0100 (CET) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Doug Rabson wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > > It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. > > > Anybody have any ideas? > > > > Please search the archives for discussions of this. The short answer > > is "it can't be done". > > I don't understand why we can't use VM86 bios calls to switch modes these > days. Mind you, I don't really understand the VM86 code. Short version: Modern Xservers puts the cards into accelerated modes, and the BIOS dont know how to restore those kind of fancy things, they only know how to deal with "after hardware rest" state of affairs, and modes they have setup themselves. - Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 06:02:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18247 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:02:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA18241 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:02:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA96415; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:02:56 GMT Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:02:56 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Sren Schmidt cc: mike@smith.net.au, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-Reply-To: <199901271345.OAA34655@freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Sren Schmidt wrote: > It seems Doug Rabson wrote: > > On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. > > > > Anybody have any ideas? > > > > > > Please search the archives for discussions of this. The short answer > > > is "it can't be done". > > > > I don't understand why we can't use VM86 bios calls to switch modes these > > days. Mind you, I don't really understand the VM86 code. > > Short version: > > Modern Xservers puts the cards into accelerated modes, and the BIOS > dont know how to restore those kind of fancy things, they only know > how to deal with "after hardware rest" state of affairs, and modes > they have setup themselves. Lazy bios writers. They build the hardware but can't be bothered to write decent firmware for it. Grumble. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 06:19:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19603 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:19:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA19594 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:18:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA34734; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:18:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199901271418.PAA34734@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-Reply-To: from Doug Rabson at "Jan 27, 1999 2: 2:56 pm" To: dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:18:27 +0100 (CET) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Doug Rabson wrote: > > > I don't understand why we can't use VM86 bios calls to switch modes these > > > days. Mind you, I don't really understand the VM86 code. > > > > Short version: > > > > Modern Xservers puts the cards into accelerated modes, and the BIOS > > dont know how to restore those kind of fancy things, they only know > > how to deal with "after hardware rest" state of affairs, and modes > > they have setup themselves. > > Lazy bios writers. They build the hardware but can't be bothered to write > decent firmware for it. Grumble. Well, they do, it comes as a Winslows driver :( (and before Terry^H^H^H^H^Hanyone jumps up and suggests we use those, forget it, I've looked at it and my head still hurts) -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 06:46:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22390 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles361.castles.com [208.214.167.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22371 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:46:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24042; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:40:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901271440.GAA24042@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: SXren Schmidt cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:46:17 +0100." <199901270746.IAA33993@freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:40:01 -0800 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id GAA22374 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It seems Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. > > > Anybody have any ideas? > > > > Please search the archives for discussions of this. The short answer > > is "it can't be done". > > Erhm, well, it CAN be done, but not easily. > > I have started on a X server that uses libvgl as the underlying graphics > "glue". Since libvgl can (well my local version) use the BIOS to switch > to hires VESA modes, the kernel "knows" how to get out of graphics mode > when something bad happens. > However you can be screwed so bad that even this doesn't work. > The other downside is that such an Xserver redefines slow... This is what QNX do with their Photon micro-GUI; they use the VESA BIOS and then the linear framebuffer mode that most cards have. It's not what you'd call "accelerated", but for a lot of things it's more than adequate. If you're going to do it that way, it does indeed become possible, yes. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 06:59:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24204 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:59:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24191 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:59:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA34837; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:59:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199901271459.PAA34837@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-Reply-To: <199901271440.GAA24042@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jan 27, 1999 6:40: 1 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:59:03 +0100 (CET) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Mike Smith wrote: > > I have started on a X server that uses libvgl as the underlying graphics > > "glue". Since libvgl can (well my local version) use the BIOS to switch > > to hires VESA modes, the kernel "knows" how to get out of graphics mode > > when something bad happens. > > However you can be screwed so bad that even this doesn't work. > > The other downside is that such an Xserver redefines slow... > > This is what QNX do with their Photon micro-GUI; they use the VESA BIOS > and then the linear framebuffer mode that most cards have. It's not > what you'd call "accelerated", but for a lot of things it's more than > adequate. Hmm, any chance that they have source available for that :), nah.... > If you're going to do it that way, it does indeed become possible, yes. Yup, I had it working but my prototype went away with my machine, so I'll have to whip it up again, but it was usefull, esp for else unsupported video HW, and for minimal installations... - Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 07:07:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25057 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:07:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from snc2.snc (snc5.spacebridge.com [206.191.3.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25044 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:07:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from MMonani@spacebridge.com) Received: by snc2.spacebridge.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:11:02 -0500 Message-ID: <535C51E37384D211BBE400A0C9932501063BAA@snc2.spacebridge.com> From: Mittal Monani To: "'phoenix@calldei.com'" Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: Newbie questions : please help Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:10:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Chris Costello [mailto:chris@holly.dyndns.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 7:06 AM To: Mittal Monani Subject: Re: Newbie questions : please help On Tue, Jan 26, 1999, Mittal Monani put this into my mailbox: >> >>3.How do I find out which RFCs are currently implemented? I am specifically >> interested in knowing if the following RFCs are implemented in Freebsd >> 2.2.8: >> >To which protocols do these RFCs apply? >> --RFC 1323 TCP Extensions for high Performance >>--RFC 1812 Routing/packet forwardong >>--RFC 1483 LLC/SNAP encapsulation for transport over ATM >>--RFC 2001 Fast xmit and fast recovery >>--RFC 2018 Selective Acknowledgement (SACK) > > 4.I am interested in experimenting with integrating the stack with an RTOS > (VxWorks) after removing the built-in stack and then optimizing it for > performance. I cannot license the source from the RTOS vendor. Any > pointers > to useful information? Any experience you might care to share? Sorry, I, myself, cannot provide you with this information because I don't know about the specific project you're talking about. > > TIA, > > Mittal > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 07:11:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25434 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:11:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25414 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:11:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.137]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA493F for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:11:22 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:19:51 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: #define question Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, simple question I'm sure... Do we have a systemwide variable to use in the form like this: #ifdef __FREEBSD__ #include #endif And with the variable I am referring to the __FREEBSD__ tag... thanks in advance, --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven It's a Dance of Energy, asmodai(at)wxs.nl when the Mind goes Binary... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 07:46:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29922 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:46:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA29873 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:46:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id RAA22944; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:37:30 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:37:29 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: #define question Message-ID: <19990127173729.A19941@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Hackers References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i In-Reply-To: ; from Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 04:19:51PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 04:19:51PM +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > Hi, > > simple question I'm sure... > > Do we have a systemwide variable to use in the form like this: > > #ifdef __FREEBSD__ > #include > #endif > > And with the variable I am referring to the __FREEBSD__ tag... > > thanks in advance, > Try to `cpp' this chunk: #ifdef __FreeBSD__ #warning "You're on FreeBSD" #endif BR, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 07:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00350 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:49:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay01.indigo.ie (relay01.indigo.ie [194.125.133.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA00331 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:49:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nsmart@kira.team400.ie) From: nsmart@kira.team400.ie Received: (qmail 25664 messnum 238288 invoked from network[194.125.214.21/pc214-21.indigo.ie]); 27 Jan 1999 15:49:47 -0000 Received: from pc214-21.indigo.ie (HELO kira.team400.ie) (194.125.214.21) by relay01.indigo.ie (qp 25664) with SMTP; 27 Jan 1999 15:49:47 -0000 Message-ID: <36AF3680.18A23F11@kira.team400.ie> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:53:36 +0000 Organization: Trinity Commerce X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UNKNOWN?Q?S=F8ren?= Schmidt CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? References: <199901271345.OAA34655@freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I don't understand why we can't use VM86 bios calls to switch modes these > > days. Mind you, I don't really understand the VM86 code. > > Short version: > > Modern Xservers puts the cards into accelerated modes, and the BIOS > dont know how to restore those kind of fancy things, they only know > how to deal with "after hardware rest" state of affairs, and modes > they have setup themselves. Hmm, would it be possible for the video driver to give some code to the kernel/a daemon at X11 initialisation which would put the video card back into VGA mode when executed? Regards, Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 07:56:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:56:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01519 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:56:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27421; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:56:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36AF3733.E6DFEB9F@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:56:35 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon CC: Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901261853.MAA15095@home.dragondata.com> <36AE3981.C3F59FF1@softweyr.com> <199901262256.OAA22114@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > > :Wouldn't it be cleaner to limit it by load average rather than number of > :jobs? This would tend to allow small, one-shot cron entries that really > :don't eat a lot of resources to continue running on time, while saving > :the machine from the monster processes. > > No, this won't work at all. I have direct experience trying to > regulate things by load average. > > The problem is that the load average takes too long to ramp up and > ramp down. By the time it's ramped up, cron may have already forked > a thousand jobs. Plus if the system gets loaded on its own, you risk > an effective disablement of cron alltogether. So this is why pmake drives our system load average up to 8-10 before dropping back down to the assigned limit of 5, huh? Maybe we should fix the load average computations as John suggested. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 08:00:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01917 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:00:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from excalibur.oceanis.net (ns.dotcom.fr [194.133.21.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA01907 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:00:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pixel@excalibur.oceanis.net) Received: (from pixel@localhost) by excalibur.oceanis.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA03633 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:00:46 GMT From: Emmanuel DELOGET Message-Id: <199901271600.QAA03633@excalibur.oceanis.net> Subject: Re: #define question To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:00:46 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Do we have a systemwide variable to use in the form like this: > > #ifdef __FREEBSD__ > #include > #endif It seems that we do not (try grep -i freebsd /usr/include/*{.h,/*.h}) -- pixel@dotcom.fr ------------------------------------------------ DotCom Communication Numerique To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 08:08:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02763 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:08:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (hou3-23.flex.net [207.18.136.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02714 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:08:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA74915; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:08:14 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chris) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:08:11 -0600 From: Chris Costello To: Mittal Monani Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbie questions : please help Message-ID: <19990127100811.A74511@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: phoenix@calldei.com References: <535C51E37384D211BBE400A0C9932501063BAA@snc2.spacebridge.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1us In-Reply-To: <535C51E37384D211BBE400A0C9932501063BAA@snc2.spacebridge.com>; from Mittal Monani on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 10:10:56AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jan 27, 1999, Mittal Monani put this into my mailbox: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Costello [mailto:chris@holly.dyndns.org] > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 7:06 AM > To: Mittal Monani > Subject: Re: Newbie questions : please help > > > On Tue, Jan 26, 1999, Mittal Monani put this into my mailbox: > > >> > >>3.How do I find out which RFCs are currently implemented? I am > specifically > >> interested in knowing if the following RFCs are implemented in Freebsd > >> 2.2.8: > >> > > >To which protocols do these RFCs apply? > > >> --RFC 1323 Since I'm not too sure how to accurately determine whether or not these exist, I grepped /usr/src/sys for it. I found traces of "rfc1323" in /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp_subr.c > > TCP Extensions for high Performance > > >>--RFC 1812 > > Routing/packet forwardong Couldn't find that, but maybe natd might help you: DESCRIPTION This program provides a Network Address Translation facility for use with divert(4) sockets under FreeBSD. Most of the command line options are available in a single character short form or in a long form. Use of the long form is encouraged as it makes things clearer to the casual observ- er. Natd normally runs in the background as a daemon. It is passed raw IP packets as they travel into and out of the machine, and will possibly change these before re-injecting them back into the IP packet stream. > > >>--RFC 1483 > > LLC/SNAP encapsulation for transport over ATM There appears to be RFC1483-related material in /usr/src/sys/dev/en/midway.c > > >>--RFC 2001 > > Fast xmit and fast recovery Couldn't find rfc2001 code > > >>--RFC 2018 > > Selective Acknowledgement (SACK) /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp.h contains an option TCPOPT_SACK, and it says it's experimental. > > > > > > 4.I am interested in experimenting with integrating the stack with an RTOS > > > (VxWorks) after removing the built-in stack and then optimizing it for > > performance. I cannot license the source from the RTOS vendor. Any > > pointers > > to useful information? Any experience you might care to share? > > Sorry, I, myself, cannot provide you with this information because I > don't know about the specific project you're talking about. > > > > > TIA, > > > > Mittal > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 08:09:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02799 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:09:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02781 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:08:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (kulshedra [10.0.1.99]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05988; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:03:16 +0200 Message-ID: <36AF3A09.59839958@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:08:42 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Emmanuel DELOGET CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #define question References: <199901271600.QAA03633@excalibur.oceanis.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Emmanuel DELOGET wrote: > > Do we have a systemwide variable to use in the form like this: > > > > #ifdef __FREEBSD__ > > #include > > #endif > > It seems that we do not > (try grep -i freebsd /usr/include/*{.h,/*.h}) > gcc -E -dM /usr/include/stddef.h > > -- > pixel@dotcom.fr ------------------------------------------------ > DotCom > Communication Numerique > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 08:12:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03176 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:12:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (hou3-23.flex.net [207.18.136.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03114 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:12:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA74949; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:11:14 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chris) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:11:13 -0600 From: Chris Costello To: Emmanuel DELOGET Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #define question Message-ID: <19990127101113.B74511@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: phoenix@calldei.com References: <199901271600.QAA03633@excalibur.oceanis.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1us In-Reply-To: <199901271600.QAA03633@excalibur.oceanis.net>; from Emmanuel DELOGET on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 05:00:46PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jan 27, 1999, Emmanuel DELOGET put this into my mailbox: > > Do we have a systemwide variable to use in the form like this: > > > > #ifdef __FREEBSD__ > > #include > > #endif > > It seems that we do not > (try grep -i freebsd /usr/include/*{.h,/*.h}) We do: [chris@holly /usr2/home/chris] $ gcc -v -c foo.c gcc version 2.7.2.1 /usr/libexec/cpp -lang-c -v -undef -D__GNUC__=2 -D__GNUC_MINOR__=7 -Dunix -Di38 6 -D__FreeBSD__=3 -D__FreeBSD_cc_version=300001 -D__unix__ -D__i386__ -D__FreeBS D__=3 -D__FreeBSD_cc_version=300001 -D__unix -D__i386 -Asystem(unix) -Asystem(Fr eeBSD) -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386) -D__ELF__ foo.c /var/tmp/ccE74937.i GNU CPP version 2.7.2.1 (i386 FreeBSD) #include "..." search starts here: #include <...> search starts here: /usr/include End of search list. foo.c:2: warning: #warning "__FreeBSD__ is defined." /usr/libexec/cc1 /var/tmp/ccE74937.i -quiet -dumpbase foo.c -version -o /var/tm p/ccE74937.s GNU C version 2.7.2.1 (i386 FreeBSD) compiled by GNU C version 2.7.2.1. /usr/libexec/elf/as -v -o foo.o /var/tmp/ccE74937.s GNU assembler version 2.9.1 (i386-unknown-freebsdelf), using BFD version 2.9.1 > > -- > pixel@dotcom.fr ------------------------------------------------ > DotCom > Communication Numerique > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 08:15:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03576 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:15:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03507 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:15:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id SAA00632; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:14:19 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:14:18 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Emmanuel DELOGET Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #define question Message-ID: <19990127181418.A28837@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: Emmanuel DELOGET , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199901271600.QAA03633@excalibur.oceanis.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i In-Reply-To: <199901271600.QAA03633@excalibur.oceanis.net>; from Emmanuel DELOGET on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 05:00:46PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 05:00:46PM +0100, Emmanuel DELOGET wrote: > > Do we have a systemwide variable to use in the form like this: > > > > #ifdef __FREEBSD__ > > #include > > #endif > > It seems that we do not > (try grep -i freebsd /usr/include/*{.h,/*.h}) > Try strings /usr/libexec/cpp | grep __FreeBSD__ Try cc -v -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 08:20:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04403 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:20:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from excalibur.oceanis.net (ns.dotcom.fr [194.133.21.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04387 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:20:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pixel@excalibur.oceanis.net) Received: (from pixel@localhost) by excalibur.oceanis.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA04094; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:20:40 GMT From: Emmanuel DELOGET Message-Id: <199901271620.QAA04094@excalibur.oceanis.net> Subject: Re: #define question In-Reply-To: <36AF3A09.59839958@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> from Ruslan Shevchenko at "Jan 27, 1999 6: 8:42 pm" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:20:39 +0100 (MET) Cc: rssh@gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Charset koi8-r unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > Emmanuel DELOGET wrote: > > > > Do we have a systemwide variable to use in the form like this: > > > > > > #ifdef __FREEBSD__ > > > #include > > > #endif > > > > It seems that we do not > > (try grep -i freebsd /usr/include/*{.h,/*.h}) > > > > gcc -E -dM /usr/include/stddef.h > > > > > -- > > pixel@dotcom.fr ------------------------------------------------ > > DotCom > > Communication Numerique > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Apologize... I'm currently working on a new method to learn reading and writing... Seems that cpp knows about a __FreeBSD__ define (in fact, I had it in front of my eyes while writing this stupid stuff...) pixel@dotcom.fr ------------------------------------------------ DotCom Communication Numerique To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 08:32:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05661 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:32:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay01.indigo.ie (relay01.indigo.ie [194.125.133.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA05654 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:32:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nsmart@kira.team400.ie) From: nsmart@kira.team400.ie Received: (qmail 7295 messnum 238288 invoked from network[194.125.214.21/pc214-21.indigo.ie]); 27 Jan 1999 16:25:44 -0000 Received: from pc214-21.indigo.ie (HELO kira.team400.ie) (194.125.214.21) by relay01.indigo.ie (qp 7295) with SMTP; 27 Jan 1999 16:25:44 -0000 Message-ID: <36AF3EEE.D9B6C3C0@kira.team400.ie> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:29:34 +0000 Organization: Trinity Commerce X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ruslan Ermilov CC: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: #define question References: <19990127173729.A19941@ucb.crimea.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Try to `cpp' this chunk: > > #ifdef __FreeBSD__ > #warning "You're on FreeBSD" > #endif This program is hopelessly buggy, try this version: #ifndef __FreeBSD__ #warning "You're not on FreeBSD!" #endif Regards, Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 08:33:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05754 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:33:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA05743 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:33:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.175]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1FB7; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:33:18 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <36AF3EEE.D9B6C3C0@kira.team400.ie> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:41:48 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: nsmart@kira.team400.ie Subject: Re: #define question Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Ruslan Ermilov Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27-Jan-99 nsmart@kira.team400.ie wrote: > >> Try to `cpp' this chunk: >> >> #ifdef __FreeBSD__ >> #warning "You're on FreeBSD" >> #endif > > This program is hopelessly buggy, try this version: > >#ifndef __FreeBSD__ >#warning "You're not on FreeBSD!" >#endif The latter being more exclusive and thus more able to give the correct answer I guess? --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven It's a Dance of Energy, asmodai(at)wxs.nl when the Mind goes Binary... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 08:51:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08580 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08574 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:51:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA01366; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:51:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:51:29 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: #define question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: # Hi, # # simple question I'm sure... # # Do we have a systemwide variable to use in the form like this: # # #ifdef __FREEBSD__ # #include # #endif # # And with the variable I am referring to the __FREEBSD__ tag... I know this will seem a little simple-minded but it has come in handy a number of times. bsd[~]$ (touch $$.c ; gcc -dM -E $$.c ; rm $$.c) #define __FreeBSD__ 3 #define __FreeBSD_cc_version 300001 #define __i386__ 1 #define __i386 1 #define __GNUC_MINOR__ 7 #define i386 1 #define __unix 1 #define __unix__ 1 #define __GNUC__ 2 #define __ELF__ 1 #define unix 1 bsd[~]$ # thanks in advance, # # --- # Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven It's a Dance of Energy, # asmodai(at)wxs.nl when the Mind goes Binary... # Network/Security Specialist # BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 08:56:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09325 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:56:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08840; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:52:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id SAA07038; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:52:27 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:52:27 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: 2.2.8S -> 3.0S: new upgrade procedure Message-ID: <19990127185227.A6083@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD Hackers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! #defind S -STABLE I am planning to upgrade my main host at this weekend. I would like to know, if anyone tried to upgrade 2.2.8S -> 3.0S with new Jordan's upgrade procedure (already in RELENG_3)? I can't understand: how ELF config will build ELF kernel on 2.2.8 machine? Is it possible? -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 09:03:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10018 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:03:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10011 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:03:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id JAA40222; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:03:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:03:26 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901271703.JAA40222@apollo.backplane.com> To: Wes Peters Cc: Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901261853.MAA15095@home.dragondata.com> <36AE3981.C3F59FF1@softweyr.com> <199901262256.OAA22114@apollo.backplane.com> <36AF3733.E6DFEB9F@softweyr.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :So this is why pmake drives our system load average up to 8-10 before :dropping back down to the assigned limit of 5, huh? Maybe we should :fix the load average computations as John suggested. : :Wes Peters Softweyr LLC :http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com There's nothing wrong with the load average computation, it's a 1, 5, and 15 minute pseudo-average just as advertised. What's wrong are the programs that try to use it to regulate themselves. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 09:09:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10697 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:09:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10573 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:08:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id TAA09457; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:07:19 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:07:19 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Steve Price Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: #define question Message-ID: <19990127190719.A8664@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: Steve Price , FreeBSD Hackers References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i In-Reply-To: ; from Steve Price on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 10:51:29AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 10:51:29AM -0600, Steve Price wrote: > > I know this will seem a little simple-minded but it has come > in handy a number of times. > > bsd[~]$ (touch $$.c ; gcc -dM -E $$.c ; rm $$.c) > #define __FreeBSD__ 3 > #define __FreeBSD_cc_version 300001 > #define __i386__ 1 > #define __i386 1 > #define __GNUC_MINOR__ 7 > #define i386 1 > #define __unix 1 > #define __unix__ 1 > #define __GNUC__ 2 > #define __ELF__ 1 > #define unix 1 > bsd[~]$ Perfect! Maybe you know, why `-E -dD' doesn't work? -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 09:23:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12619 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:23:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay02.indigo.ie (relay02.indigo.ie [194.125.133.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA12610 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:23:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nsmart@kira.team400.ie) From: nsmart@kira.team400.ie Received: (qmail 3556 messnum 46242 invoked from network[194.125.214.21/pc214-21.indigo.ie]); 27 Jan 1999 17:23:48 -0000 Received: from pc214-21.indigo.ie (HELO kira.team400.ie) (194.125.214.21) by relay02.indigo.ie (qp 3556) with SMTP; 27 Jan 1999 17:23:48 -0000 Message-ID: <36AF4C8A.794F6B35@kira.team400.ie> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:27:38 +0000 Organization: Trinity Commerce X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Price CC: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: #define question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I know this will seem a little simple-minded but it has come > in handy a number of times. > > bsd[~]$ (touch $$.c ; gcc -dM -E $$.c ; rm $$.c) Thanks for that tip, very useful. FYI, "gcc -dM -E - < /dev/null" works too. Regards, Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 09:25:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12969 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:25:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu (friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu [129.186.185.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12954 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:25:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu (localhost.res.iastate.edu [127.0.0.1]) by friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09108; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:24:45 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199901271724.LAA09108@friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon cc: Wes Peters , Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:03:26 PST." <199901271703.JAA40222@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:24:45 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >: >:So this is why pmake drives our system load average up to 8-10 before >:dropping back down to the assigned limit of 5, huh? Maybe we should >:fix the load average computations as John suggested. >: >:Wes Peters Softweyr LLC >:http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > There's nothing wrong with the load average computation, it's a 1, 5, > and 15 minute pseudo-average just as advertised. What's wrong are the > programs that try to use it to regulate themselves. I'm not sure how relevant this is--but the current load average decays *very* slowly as compared to other systems. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 09:28:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13357 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:28:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA13335 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:28:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA18200; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:26:50 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:26:50 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: Ruslan Ermilov cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: #define question In-Reply-To: <19990127190719.A8664@ucb.crimea.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: # Maybe you know, why `-E -dD' doesn't work? Probably not :-), but I'll ask anyway. What doesn't work about it? # -- # Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the # ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank # +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine # # http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve # http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age # To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 09:43:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15079 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:43:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14944 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:42:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id TAA15699; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:42:04 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:42:04 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Steve Price Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: #define question Message-ID: <19990127194204.A15672@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: Steve Price , FreeBSD Hackers References: <19990127190719.A8664@ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i In-Reply-To: ; from Steve Price on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:26:50AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 11:26:50AM -0600, Steve Price wrote: > On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > # Maybe you know, why `-E -dD' doesn't work? > > Probably not :-), but I'll ask anyway. What doesn't work > about it? > Why it doesn't work like `-E -dM' in your example? -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 09:59:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17165 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:59:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu (friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu [129.186.185.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17159 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:59:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu (localhost.res.iastate.edu [127.0.0.1]) by friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09274; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:59:21 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199901271759.LAA09274@friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 cc: Matthew Dillon , Wes Peters , Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:24:45 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:59:21 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> >>: >>:So this is why pmake drives our system load average up to 8-10 before >>:dropping back down to the assigned limit of 5, huh? Maybe we should >>:fix the load average computations as John suggested. >>: >>:Wes Peters Softweyr LLC >>:http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com >> >> There's nothing wrong with the load average computation, it's a 1, 5, >> and 15 minute pseudo-average just as advertised. What's wrong are the >> programs that try to use it to regulate themselves. > >I'm not sure how relevant this is--but the current load average decays >*very* slowly as compared to other systems. > Ugh.. Exmh has terrible dialog boxes--I was not quite finished. Anyways, what I wanted to say was more about the %CPU usage than the load--although the load seems to decay slowly as well. It doesn't matter too much, although in the case of the %CPU usage it seems to mask the current usage with the delay--it would be nice to have a more direct correlation. Perhaps entirely decaying over only a few seconds or so. Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 10:14:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18692 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:10:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18628; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:10:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id UAA21041; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:09:51 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:09:51 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ALERT: New Jordan's a.out->ELF upgrade is broken!!! Message-ID: <19990127200951.A19404@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: jkh@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Hackers , stable@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan! As I wrote to you, your new upgrade is broken for 2.2.X systems. 1. It will not install new boot blocks (see message below). 2. It will not build ELF kernel with ELF config and ELF tools on a running 2.2.X. (Am I right)? 3. It gives no chance to revert, because it installs ELF world before new boot blocks and new kernel get installed. Please revert your changes until you TEST IT on a running 2.2 system. Thanks! ----- Forwarded message from Chuck O'Donnell ----- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:53:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Chuck O'Donnell" To: Ruslan Ermilov cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.8S -> 3.0S: new upgrade procedure In-Reply-To: <19990127185227.A6083@ucb.crimea.ua> On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > Hi! > > #defind S -STABLE > > I am planning to upgrade my main host at this weekend. > > I would like to know, if anyone tried to upgrade > 2.2.8S -> 3.0S with new Jordan's upgrade procedure > (already in RELENG_3)? > I tried it. Two things that I had trouble with; (1) I was missing a directory `/usr/local/lib/aout' and (2) during the install it failed at "Installing new boot blocks", with error "disklabel: /dev/rda0: No such file or directory". I wasn't able to recover from the last error. I tried (cd /dev; sh MAKEDEV da0)... no good. I guess MAKEDEV has not been updated at this point in the install? Or maybe I missed a manual step somewhere. Don't know, I haven't had a chance to get back to it. Chuck ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 10:27:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20272 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:27:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20267 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:27:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA22686; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:27:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:27:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Boris Popov cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netware client 1.2beta1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Boris Popov wrote: > Well, it's a first public release of nwlib. All concepts, design and > implementation was maded to suit my needs, so I'll be very grateful > for any comments, suggesstions, etc. Since it a first release it may > not work or even compile in your environment :). Note, nwfs require > FreeBSD version 3.0 and it must be very close to RELENG_3. Woo, works fairly well for me. Was a bit slow with all the debuging enabled. I'm seeing problems with the '.' directory disappearing. Any ideas on Netware printer client support? Thanks! -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 10:28:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20387 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:28:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20379; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:28:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA80574; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:28:06 -0800 (PST) To: Ruslan Ermilov cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: ALERT: New Jordan's a.out->ELF upgrade is broken!!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:09:51 +0200." <19990127200951.A19404@ucb.crimea.ua> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:28:05 -0800 Message-ID: <80570.917461685@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don't cross-post to both -hackers and -stable, use one list. > 1. It will not install new boot blocks (see message below). > 2. It will not build ELF kernel with ELF config and ELF tools > on a running 2.2.X. (Am I right)? > 3. It gives no chance to revert, because it installs ELF world > before new boot blocks and new kernel get installed. There is still more work which needs to be done on the ordering and TOC for what's installed. Your own changes were overly simplistic and had other problems of their own. I'll be further refining this over the next couple of days - I just took "kickme" to 4.0 with it and only one failure (to reboot, which was comparatively minor). This is and harder problem to solve than you seem to give it credit for, and I'd also appreciate it if you'd start sending me diffs rather than commentaries. Don't tell me what you THINK it does or should do, show me changes which have been empirically proven to do it better. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 11:20:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27116 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:20:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.inktomi.com (mercury.inktomi.com [209.1.32.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27106 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:20:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jplevyak@inktomi.com) Received: from proxydev.inktomi.com (proxydev.inktomi.com [209.1.32.44]) by mercury.inktomi.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27317; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jplevyak@localhost) by proxydev.inktomi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA14614; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:20:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19990127112021.A13567@proxydev.inktomi.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:20:21 -0800 From: John Plevyak To: Robert Nordier Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: raw devices and disk geometry References: <19990126140251.G19158@proxydev.inktomi.com> <199901271220.OAA22838@ceia.nordier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199901271220.OAA22838@ceia.nordier.com>; from Robert Nordier on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 02:19:59PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think you need to look at the code of an actual utility that does > this stuff, and that you can also try out. I'd suggest newfs_msdos(8), > which will allow you to specify any of > > o the whole physical disk > o a slice (what DOS calls a partition) > o a partition (what BSD calls a partition) Thanx. That code parses the device file name and pulls the slice and partition from the filename: /dev/rwd2cs4 ^ slice ^ partition Not pretty, but it works so long as nobody changes the format of device names. > > Also, why shouldn't lseek work on a device? Is this something > > we would like FreeBSD to do, or is the current undefined behavior > > what we want? Given that this would solve my problem I would consider > > making a patch if there was some expectation that it would be accepted. > > You can't expect lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_END) to work as you expect unless > the file descriptor is associated with a regular file. For other file > types, file size information is not available at that level. "It's > a UNIX thing," and there's no patching it now. Size information > usually is available -- in the FreeBSD case, via ioctl -- but not very > portably across UNIX-like systems. I see that lseek is using vop_getattr to determine the size of the file via the 'va_size' field which is 0 for devices. The structure vattr contains: u_quad_t va_size; /* file size in bytes */ and u_quad_t va_bytes; /* bytes of disk space held by file */ In the function devfs_getattr in sys/miscfs/devfs_vnops.c these are both set to file_node->len (0). While it is clear that va_bytes should be 0, but there seems to be no reason for va_size to not be the size of data on the disk (modula other code which depends on it being 0). The code would be something like: switch (file_node->type) { case DEV_CDEV: vap->va_rdev = file_node->by.Cdev.dev; vap->va_size = (u_quad_t)(*file_node->by.Cdev.cdevsw.d_size)(vap->va_rdev) << DEV_BSHIFT; break; case DEV_BDEV: vap->va_rdev = file_node->by.Bdev.dev; vap->va_size = (u_quad_t)(*file_node->by.Bdev.cdevsw.d_size)(vap->va_rdev) << DEV_BSHIFT; break; default: vap->va_size = file_node->len; break; } Of course someone might be counting on va_size being 0 for devices. Comments? john -- John Bradley Plevyak, PhD, jplevyak@inktomi.com, PGP KeyID: 051130BD Inktomi Corporation, 1900 S. Norfolk Street, Suite 110, San Mateo, CA 94403 W:(415)653-2830 F:(415)653-2801 P:(888)491-1332/5103192436.4911332@pagenet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 11:32:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28946 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:32:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from assurance.rstcorp.com (assurance.rstcorp.com [206.29.49.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28920 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:32:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vshah@rstcorp.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by assurance.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20473 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:32:36 -0500 Received: from sandbox.rstcorp.com(206.29.49.63) by assurance.rstcorp.com via smap (V2.0) id xma020466; Wed, 27 Jan 99 14:32:22 -0500 Received: from jabberwock.rstcorp.com (jabberwock [206.29.49.98]) by sandbox.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14365 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:32:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vshah@localhost) by jabberwock.rstcorp.com (8.9.2/8.8.8) id OAA68029; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:32:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:32:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901271932.OAA68029@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> From: "Viren R. Shah" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: samba-2.0 authentication problem on -current X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Viren R. Shah" X-Face: )~y+U*K:yzjz{q<5lzpI_SVef'U.])9g[C9`1N@]u3,MHY7f*l7C)[_NjM4y4K8$uIUh|\u (K&&HS6,M!61&GMTk'mqmB/Qg]]X}"?TzsFl]"2v!bl8']dma.:^IY^a[lbOI>U:b<~FyK3q-p{HmZ mn~g.`~BE!5{2D:}Yi+\_KkWe?XaHj9$ko1k8iKLYv5*_2c8"G=?Up[}hn+7RNM(bzBZ_wWk6!Pf&B ?3Tcm7M7B~W%K/I0aX3]*=jP?aM]H6HBPT`oLk+0n^_;N\2\%|Rhy;p}34Q.jEsM\qtnxcm;ag%Nq Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Was there a fix to the "smbd: no modules loaded for `samba' service" problem that was reported on this list a couple of days ago? I went thru the archive but couldn't find anything. Do I need to fall back to 1.9.x? I'm runnign a stock pam.conf. Thanks Viren -- Viren R. Shah FreeBSD: The Power to _Serve_ http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 12:03:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02741 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:03:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02736 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:03:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id LAA47551; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:34:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:34:38 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901271934.LAA47551@apollo.backplane.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Verification of bug in dev/pdq/pdq.c Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG cc -c -O -Wall -Wredundant-decls -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing -prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wcast-qual -fformat-extensions -ansi -no stdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -DKERNEL -include opt_global.h -elf ../../dev/pdq/pdq.c ../../dev/pdq/pdq.c: In function `pdq_process_received_data': ../../dev/pdq/pdq.c:767: warning: suggest parentheses around comparison in opera nd of | } else if (status.rxs_fsc == 0 | status.rxs_fsb_e == 1) { /* rx->rx_frame_status_errors++; */ I presume the '|' instead of '||' is a bug. Second opinion? -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 12:24:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05553 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:24:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from assurance.rstcorp.com (assurance.rstcorp.com [206.29.49.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05548 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:24:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vshah@rstcorp.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by assurance.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23180 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:24:36 -0500 Received: from sandbox.rstcorp.com(206.29.49.63) by assurance.rstcorp.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023170; Wed, 27 Jan 99 15:24:03 -0500 Received: from jabberwock.rstcorp.com (jabberwock [206.29.49.98]) by sandbox.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15646 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:23:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vshah@localhost) by jabberwock.rstcorp.com (8.9.2/8.8.8) id PAA80244; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:24:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:24:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901272024.PAA80244@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> From: "Viren R. Shah" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re:samba-2.0 authentication problem on -current In-Reply-To: <199901271932.OAA68029@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> References: <199901271932.OAA68029@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Viren R. Shah" X-Face: )~y+U*K:yzjz{q<5lzpI_SVef'U.])9g[C9`1N@]u3,MHY7f*l7C)[_NjM4y4K8$uIUh|\u (K&&HS6,M!61&GMTk'mqmB/Qg]]X}"?TzsFl]"2v!bl8']dma.:^IY^a[lbOI>U:b<~FyK3q-p{HmZ mn~g.`~BE!5{2D:}Yi+\_KkWe?XaHj9$ko1k8iKLYv5*_2c8"G=?Up[}hn+7RNM(bzBZ_wWk6!Pf&B ?3Tcm7M7B~W%K/I0aX3]*=jP?aM]H6HBPT`oLk+0n^_;N\2\%|Rhy;p}34Q.jEsM\qtnxcm;ag%Nq Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "VRS" == Viren R Shah writes: VRS> Was there a fix to the "smbd: no modules loaded for `samba' service" VRS> problem that was reported on this list a couple of days ago? I went VRS> thru the archive but couldn't find anything. I feel quite stupid since I saw the patch for this go into the ports tree just after I sent this. :-) Viren -- Viren R. Shah FreeBSD: The Power to _Serve_ http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 13:20:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12077 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:20:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12069 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:20:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA05167 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdvK5164; Wed Jan 27 21:16:52 1999 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:16:49 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Headsup in 3.0.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A merge from -current requires recompilation of the usual suspects..(ps, libkvm etc.) where should I port this since -current is not the right place any more. (is there a 3-x list?) julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 13:44:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15179 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15173 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:44:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA21761; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:44:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021759; Wed, 27 Jan 99 13:43:53 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA15348; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:43:53 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901272143.NAA15348@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Verification of bug in dev/pdq/pdq.c In-Reply-To: <199901271934.LAA47551@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 27, 99 11:34:38 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:43:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon writes: > cc -c -O -Wall -Wredundant-decls -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing > -prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wcast-qual -fformat-extensions -ansi -no > stdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -DKERNEL -include opt_global.h -elf > ../../dev/pdq/pdq.c > ../../dev/pdq/pdq.c: In function `pdq_process_received_data': > ../../dev/pdq/pdq.c:767: warning: suggest parentheses around comparison in opera > nd of | > > } else if (status.rxs_fsc == 0 | status.rxs_fsb_e == 1) { > /* rx->rx_frame_status_errors++; */ > > > I presume the '|' instead of '||' is a bug. Second opinion? It must be -- that makes no sense. Anyway, it doesn't matter if you change it, because the result will be functionally identical. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 14:19:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19568 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA19560 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:19:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 2218 invoked from network); 27 Jan 1999 22:16:41 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 1999 22:16:41 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA00419; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:16:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901272216.RAA00419@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901271703.JAA40222@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 27, 99 09:03:26 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:16:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > > : > :So this is why pmake drives our system load average up to 8-10 before > :dropping back down to the assigned limit of 5, huh? Maybe we should > :fix the load average computations as John suggested. > : > :Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > :http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > There's nothing wrong with the load average computation, it's a 1, 5, > and 15 minute pseudo-average just as advertised. What's wrong are the > programs that try to use it to regulate themselves. > Yep, I didn't really mean that the existing load average calculation be modified, but develop a better scheme for providing load regulation info to processes. To me, load average is mostly informational, and long term trend data. Lots of things can happen within the load average attack interval. I can develop some rather complete and lossless calculations that provide accurate and useful load indicators. In fact, I think that a generic load mgmt scheme might be useful. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 14:48:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24277 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:48:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24265 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:48:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id RAA20782; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:48:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990127144832.51000@orbit.flnet.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:48:32 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Telldir() Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the past I have used telldir() in recursive directory can tools to keep my position in the directory stream known, so that I could close the directory and move into the subdirectory (recursivly). I've just noticed that in FreeBSD 2.2.7 [I dont know when this feature came into play] that telldir() is no longer accurate across an open/closedir() call. This begs the question, how the heck do you do directory scans in a portable way now with FreeBSD? -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 15:08:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27057 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:08:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from marvin.ece.utexas.edu (marvin.ece.utexas.edu [128.83.52.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27048 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:08:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bgrayson@marvin.ece.utexas.edu) Received: (from bgrayson@localhost) by marvin.ece.utexas.edu (8.8.8/8.6.9) id RAA05800 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:08:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990127170800.A27484@marvin.ece.utexas.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:08:00 -0600 From: "Brian C. Grayson" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: a.out/ELF differences: C++ static constructor ordering Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just noticed (after two days of gdb and instrumenting the STL header files -- fun!) that my current problem stems from the fact that under ELF, static constructors are invoked in a different order than under a.out. 1. Under both formats, objects within a file are created in program-order. Good. 2. Under ELF, objects in different files are constructed in the order that the files appear on the link command line (example below). Under a.out, objects in different files are constructed in _reverse_ order from the file order on the command line (this is the behavior I've seen under *BSD/a.out, AIX XCOFF, Solaris ELF, and probably others). Is this change intentional? Unfortunately, this behavior breaks a major project of mine (50Kloc and counting). I wouldn't be surprised if it breaks numerous other complex C++ programs, also. This is with gcc 2.7.2.1 on both a.out and ELF. As an example, create the files foo.h, a.cc, b.cc, and main.cc as follows: foo.h: class Foo { public: Foo(char* p) { printf("%s\n", p); } }; a.cc: #include "foo.h" Foo a("a"); Foo a2("a2"); b.cc #include "foo.h" Foo b("b"); main.cc: main () {} Now, build some executables. The first two are on an ELF machine, the second two on a.out. c++ -o ab.elf a.cc b.cc main.cc c++ -o ba.elf b.cc a.cc main.cc c++ -o ab.aout a.cc b.cc main.cc c++ -o ba.aout b.cc a.cc main.cc ab.elf and ab.aout behave differently: % ab.elf a a2 b % ab.aout b a a2 ba.elf and ba.aout also differ: % ba.elf b a a2 % ba.aout a a2 b Looking at the csu source code, __ctors/do_ctors both process the lists in the same order, so it appears that the linker is appending in one case, and prepending in the other???? Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 15:16:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28286 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:16:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28281 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:16:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id PAA69858; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:16:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:16:23 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901272316.PAA69858@apollo.backplane.com> To: Charles Henrich Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telldir() Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :In the past I have used telldir() in recursive directory can tools to keep my :position in the directory stream known, so that I could close the directory :and move into the subdirectory (recursivly). I've just noticed that in :FreeBSD 2.2.7 [I dont know when this feature came into play] that telldir() is :no longer accurate across an open/closedir() call. This begs the question, :how the heck do you do directory scans in a portable way now with FreeBSD? : :-Crh : : Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com : : http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich Just use nested opendir()'s and recursion ... that's what everyone uses as far as I know. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 15:20:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28712 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:20:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28705 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:20:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se) Received: from sister.ludd.luth.se (pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA23564 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:20:16 +0100 Message-Id: <199901272320.AAA23564@zed.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Device statistics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:20:14 +0100 From: Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am trying to teach iostat to print the percent of time the disk is busy (transactions in progress), for that I use the information in struct devstat. The problem is that start_time is recorded using getmicrouptime. If I replace that with getmicrotime I can do my magic. Is there a function that I missed that can get the same time as getmicrouptim but in userspace? --- Current temperature 99-01-28 00:19:17 -40.7 degrees Celsius (-41.2F) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 16:06:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06140 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:06:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06135 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:06:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) id RAA54630; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:05:54 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199901280005.RAA54630@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Device statistics In-Reply-To: <199901272320.AAA23564@zed.ludd.luth.se> from Mattias Pantzare at "Jan 28, 99 00:20:14 am" To: pantzer@ludd.luth.se (Mattias Pantzare) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:05:54 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mattias Pantzare wrote... > I am trying to teach iostat to print the percent of time the disk is busy > (transactions in progress), for that I use the information in struct devstat. > > The problem is that start_time is recorded using getmicrouptime. If I replace > that with getmicrotime I can do my magic. > > Is there a function that I missed that can get the same time > as getmicrouptim but in userspace? Try the kern.boottime sysctl variable. That's what w/uptime uses to figure out how long the machine has been up. You can subtract the current time from the boot time to get the uptime. I used getmicrouptime(), since it increases monotonically, unlike the regular system time. (e.g., you're running xntpd, and it steps the time back some) > Current temperature 99-01-28 00:19:17 -40.7 degrees Celsius (-41.2F) Wow, is that temperature accurate? Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 16:39:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09383 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:39:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09370 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:39:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id TAA23823; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:39:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990127163903.60811@orbit.flnet.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:39:03 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: Matthew Dillon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telldir() Mail-Followup-To: Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199901272316.PAA69858@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199901272316.PAA69858@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 03:16:23PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On the subject of Re: Telldir(), Matthew Dillon stated: > Just use nested opendir()'s and recursion ... that's what everyone uses > as far as I know. Then you can run into the dreaded "Too many open directories" errors.. -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 16:46:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10308 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:46:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10280 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:46:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id QAA78168; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:46:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:46:12 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901280046.QAA78168@apollo.backplane.com> To: Charles Henrich Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telldir() References: <199901272316.PAA69858@apollo.backplane.com> <19990127163903.60811@orbit.flnet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :> Just use nested opendir()'s and recursion ... that's what everyone uses :> as far as I know. : :Then you can run into the dreaded "Too many open directories" errors.. : :-Crh : : Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com Not under FreeBSD, at least not unless you run out of descriptors :-) -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 17:57:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17014 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:57:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lion.butya.kz (butya-gw.butya.kz [194.87.112.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17004 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:57:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bp@butya.kz) Received: from bp (helo=localhost) by lion.butya.kz with local-esmtp (Exim 2.054 #1) id 105ghK-0001Km-00; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:56:46 +0600 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:56:46 +0600 (ALMT) From: Boris Popov To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netware client 1.2beta1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Boris Popov wrote: > > Well, it's a first public release of nwlib. All concepts, design and > > implementation was maded to suit my needs, so I'll be very grateful > > Woo, works fairly well for me. Was a bit slow with all the debuging > enabled. Of course, with all debug options it produces a lot of messages. > > I'm seeing problems with the '.' directory disappearing. > > Any ideas on Netware printer client support? Yes, I'm already work on it, but there a few design questions. P.S. Fow now I don't plan support for NDS, so please use bindery logins for NW4.11. -- Boris Popov To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 18:06:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18290 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:06:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18275 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:06:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id TAA24067; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:48:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990127164832.57652@orbit.flnet.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:48:32 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: Matthew Dillon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telldir() Mail-Followup-To: Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199901272316.PAA69858@apollo.backplane.com> <19990127163903.60811@orbit.flnet.com> <199901280046.QAA78168@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199901280046.QAA78168@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 04:46:12PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On the subject of Re: Telldir(), Matthew Dillon stated: > :Then you can run into the dreaded "Too many open directories" errors.. > > Not under FreeBSD, at least not unless you run out of descriptors :-) Same difference :) -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 20:57:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10914 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:57:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m1-40-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA10902 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:57:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA01103; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:56:31 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199901280456.GAA01103@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: raw devices and disk geometry In-Reply-To: <19990127112021.A13567@proxydev.inktomi.com> from John Plevyak at "Jan 27, 99 11:20:21 am" To: jplevyak@inktomi.com (John Plevyak) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:56:29 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I think you need to look at the code of an actual utility that does > > this stuff, and that you can also try out. I'd suggest newfs_msdos(8), > > which will allow you to specify any of > > > > o the whole physical disk > > o a slice (what DOS calls a partition) > > o a partition (what BSD calls a partition) > > Thanx. That code parses the device file name and pulls the > slice and partition from the filename: > > /dev/rwd2cs4 > ^ slice > ^ partition It's /dev/rwd2s4c (unit, slice, partition), but the principle's the same. > > Not pretty, but it works so long as nobody changes the format of > device names. It's the standard BSD way (in userland). Device naming is not arbitrary but has a rigid format in order to make the internal information accessible to utilities precisely to support this approach. > > > > Also, why shouldn't lseek work on a device? Is this something > > > we would like FreeBSD to do, or is the current undefined behavior > > > what we want? Given that this would solve my problem I would consider > > > making a patch if there was some expectation that it would be accepted. > > > > You can't expect lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_END) to work as you expect unless > > the file descriptor is associated with a regular file. For other file > > types, file size information is not available at that level. "It's > > a UNIX thing," and there's no patching it now. Size information > > usually is available -- in the FreeBSD case, via ioctl -- but not very > > portably across UNIX-like systems. > > I see that lseek is using vop_getattr to determine the size of the file > via the 'va_size' field which is 0 for devices. > > The structure vattr contains: > > u_quad_t va_size; /* file size in bytes */ > and > u_quad_t va_bytes; /* bytes of disk space held by file */ > > In the function devfs_getattr in sys/miscfs/devfs_vnops.c > these are both set to file_node->len (0). While it is clear > that va_bytes should be 0, but there seems to be > no reason for va_size to not be the size of data on the disk > (modula other code which depends on it being 0). > > The code would be something like: > > switch (file_node->type) { > case DEV_CDEV: > vap->va_rdev = file_node->by.Cdev.dev; > vap->va_size = (u_quad_t)(*file_node->by.Cdev.cdevsw.d_size)(vap->va_rdev) << DEV_BSHIFT; > break; > case DEV_BDEV: > vap->va_rdev = file_node->by.Bdev.dev; > vap->va_size = (u_quad_t)(*file_node->by.Bdev.cdevsw.d_size)(vap->va_rdev) << DEV_BSHIFT; > break; > default: > vap->va_size = file_node->len; > break; > } > > Of course someone might be counting on va_size being 0 for devices. > > Comments? Without going into design decisions, va_size (or, rather, st_size in the external sys/stat.h interface) is explicitly described in standards as defined only for regular files. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 21:02:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11758 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:02:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11729; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:02:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id OAA21074; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:02:19 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36AFE9B8.688F7671@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:38:16 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ruslan Ermilov CC: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ALERT: New Jordan's a.out->ELF upgrade is broken!!! References: <19990127200951.A19404@ucb.crimea.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > Jordan! > > As I wrote to you, your new upgrade is broken for 2.2.X systems. > > 1. It will not install new boot blocks (see message below). > 2. It will not build ELF kernel with ELF config and ELF tools > on a running 2.2.X. (Am I right)? > 3. It gives no chance to revert, because it installs ELF world > before new boot blocks and new kernel get installed. ELF world can be run with a.out kernel. In fact, that was the state of affairs for quite a while, only changed about two weeks ago. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com If you sell your soul to the Devil and all you get is an MCSE from it, you haven't gotten market rate. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 21:11:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12602 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:11:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles73.castles.com [208.214.165.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12591 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:11:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00925; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:07:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901280507.VAA00925@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Doug Rabson cc: Mike Smith , Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:04:19 GMT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:07:00 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > > It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. > > > Anybody have any ideas? > > > > Please search the archives for discussions of this. The short answer > > is "it can't be done". > > I don't understand why we can't use VM86 bios calls to switch modes these > days. Mind you, I don't really understand the VM86 code. The BIOS can only be expected to move from one known state to another known state. Because the BIOS hasn't put the card *into* the mode that the X server is in, it can't be expected to get it out. It's got nothing to do with vm86, and everything to do with the fact that the BIOS isn't used for anything anymore these days. 8( -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 21:21:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13523 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:21:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles73.castles.com [208.214.165.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13517 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:21:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01116; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:16:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901280516.VAA01116@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: S ren Schmidt cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:59:03 +0100." <199901271459.PAA34837@freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:16:19 -0800 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id VAA13518 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It seems Mike Smith wrote: > > > I have started on a X server that uses libvgl as the underlying graphics > > > "glue". Since libvgl can (well my local version) use the BIOS to switch > > > to hires VESA modes, the kernel "knows" how to get out of graphics mode > > > when something bad happens. > > > However you can be screwed so bad that even this doesn't work. > > > The other downside is that such an Xserver redefines slow... > > > > This is what QNX do with their Photon micro-GUI; they use the VESA BIOS > > and then the linear framebuffer mode that most cards have. It's not > > what you'd call "accelerated", but for a lot of things it's more than > > adequate. > > Hmm, any chance that they have source available for that :), nah.... See the 'GRX' library that comes with djgpp (www.delorie.com). It uses VESA and LFB mode. If it wasn't for the license, I'd say it was almost immediately suited to completely replace libvgl. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 21:26:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13932 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:26:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13926 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:26:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA04498; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:25:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:25:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Boris Popov cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netware client 1.2beta1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Boris Popov wrote: > > Any ideas on Netware printer client support? > Yes, I'm already work on it, but there a few design questions. ?? > P.S. Fow now I don't plan support for NDS, so please use bindery logins > for NW4.11. I'm running NW3.12 :) -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 21:57:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18274 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:57:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18263 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:57:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA03573; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:57:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA07235; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:57:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:57:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901280557.VAA07235@vashon.polstra.com> To: bgrayson@marvin.ece.utexas.edu Subject: Re: a.out/ELF differences: C++ static constructor ordering Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <19990127170800.A27484@marvin.ece.utexas.edu> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <19990127170800.A27484@marvin.ece.utexas.edu>, Brian C. Grayson wrote: > I just noticed (after two days of gdb and instrumenting the STL > header files -- fun!) that my current problem stems from the fact > that under ELF, static constructors are invoked in a different > order than under a.out. > > 1. Under both formats, objects within a file are created in > program-order. Good. Yes, this is required by the C++ standard. > 2. Under ELF, objects in different files are constructed in the > order that the files appear on the link command line > (example below). Under a.out, objects in different files are > constructed in _reverse_ order from the file order on the command > line (this is the behavior I've seen under *BSD/a.out, AIX > XCOFF, Solaris ELF, and probably others). > > Is this change intentional? Unfortunately, this behavior breaks a > major project of mine (50Kloc and counting). I wouldn't be > surprised if it breaks numerous other complex C++ programs, also. The C++ standard specifically states that a conforming program is not allowed to rely on the ordering of static constructors in different object files. I didn't break your program intentionally; however, I also didn't violate the standard. If your program conformed to the C++ standard, it would work under both FreeBSD/aout and FreeBSD/ELF. Executing the constructors in reverse order of linking is probably "better," because it tends to construct dependencies before they're used. So probably I'll fix the dynamic linker to do that. But it isn't required by the standard. If you want your programs to be portable, you should take care to eliminate these kinds of dependencies. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 22:18:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20710 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:18:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles73.castles.com [208.214.165.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20705 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:18:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01473; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:15:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901280615.WAA01473@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon cc: Charles Henrich , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telldir() In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:16:23 PST." <199901272316.PAA69858@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:15:11 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :In the past I have used telldir() in recursive directory can tools to keep my > :position in the directory stream known, so that I could close the directory > :and move into the subdirectory (recursivly). I've just noticed that in > :FreeBSD 2.2.7 [I dont know when this feature came into play] that telldir() is > :no longer accurate across an open/closedir() call. This begs the question, > :how the heck do you do directory scans in a portable way now with FreeBSD? ... > Just use nested opendir()'s and recursion ... that's what everyone uses > as far as I know. Actually, most of us use fts() or ftw()... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 27 23:34:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01106 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:34:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01022 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:34:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id JAA00714; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:32:53 +0200 (EET) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:32:53 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: ALERT: New Jordan's a.out->ELF upgrade is broken!!! Message-ID: <19990128093253.A23405@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: "Daniel C. Sobral" , FreeBSD Hackers References: <19990127200951.A19404@ucb.crimea.ua> <36AFE9B8.688F7671@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i In-Reply-To: <36AFE9B8.688F7671@newsguy.com>; from Daniel C. Sobral on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 01:38:16PM +0900 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 01:38:16PM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > > Jordan! > > > > As I wrote to you, your new upgrade is broken for 2.2.X systems. > > > > 1. It will not install new boot blocks (see message below). > > 2. It will not build ELF kernel with ELF config and ELF tools > > on a running 2.2.X. (Am I right)? > > 3. It gives no chance to revert, because it installs ELF world > > before new boot blocks and new kernel get installed. > > ELF world can be run with a.out kernel. In fact, that was the state > of affairs for quite a while, only changed about two weeks ago. > I know 3.0-ELF world will run with 3.0-aout kernel. But I asked: will 3.0-ELF tools (config, make, cc, as, etc.) build 3.0-ELF kernel on a running 2.2.8-aout kernel? -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 00:43:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA08951 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:43:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA08942 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:43:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se) Received: from sister.ludd.luth.se (pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10784; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:43:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199901280843.JAA10784@zed.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Kenneth D. Merry" cc: pantzer@ludd.luth.se (Mattias Pantzare), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device statistics In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:05:54 MST." <199901280005.RAA54630@panzer.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:43:01 +0100 From: Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mattias Pantzare wrote... > > I am trying to teach iostat to print the percent of time the disk is busy > > (transactions in progress), for that I use the information in struct devstat. > > > > The problem is that start_time is recorded using getmicrouptime. If I replace > > that with getmicrotime I can do my magic. > > > > Is there a function that I missed that can get the same time > > as getmicrouptim but in userspace? > > Try the kern.boottime sysctl variable. That's what w/uptime uses to figure > out how long the machine has been up. > > You can subtract the current time from the boot time to get the uptime. > > I used getmicrouptime(), since it increases monotonically, unlike the > regular system time. (e.g., you're running xntpd, and it steps the time > back some) That means that I can't use the current time to subtreact from boot time, as that won't give the same time... If getmicrouptime was recorded in devstat when the sample is taken that would work to (even better). > > > Current temperature 99-01-28 00:19:17 -40.7 degrees Celsius (-41.2F) > > Wow, is that temperature accurate? Yes. Some places have almost -50 C To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 03:19:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28593 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:19:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA28566 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:18:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id NAA08889; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:17:53 +0200 (EET) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:17:53 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: 2.2.8S->3.0S upgrade questions Message-ID: <19990128131753.A3063@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD Hackers References: <19990127181713.B28837@ucb.crimea.ua> <80521.917461221@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i In-Reply-To: <80521.917461221@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 10:20:21AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I'm running 2.2.8S and planning to upgrade it to 3.0S this weekend. Before I start, I would like to ask you some questions. 1) After upgrade procedure, when the new ELF kernel gets installed, and system is rebooted, kernel will try to mount my SCSI disk. My /etc/fstab is: # Device Mountpoint FStype Options Dump Pass# /dev/sd0s1b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/sd0s1a / ufs rw 1 1 /dev/sd0s1g /home ufs rw 1 1 /dev/sd0s1f /usr ufs rw 1 1 /dev/sd0s1e /var ufs rw 1 1 proc /proc procfs rw 0 0 /dev/wcd0c /cdrom cd9660 ro,noauto 0 0 Will it mount my partitions or I should rename them into `da0' before I reboot? 2) During the upgrade, my /etc and /dev directories are untouched, except /etc/pam.conf, /etc/login.conf and /etc/auth.conf, right? If so, how and when should I upgrade my /etc and /dev directories? -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 04:17:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08924 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:17:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send106.yahoomail.com (send106.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA08918 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:17:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thallgren@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19990128121925.21690.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com> Received: from [131.116.188.217] by send106.yahoomail.com; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:19:25 PST Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:19:25 -0800 (PST) From: Tommy Hallgren To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Christian Murray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, A friend recently bought a Dell Dimension XPSR 400. He's using FreeBSD 2.2.7. FreeBSD doesn't detect his PS/2 mouse. The boot message is: "aux not functioning" with error code 250. He has tried to change some BIOS parameters, but without luck. We've tried to change a couple of KBD_* defines to see it that could help, we had no luck. I should add that Windows 98, NT and Red Hat Linux 5.1 finds his mouse. I've asked on #freebsd@efnet and searched the mailinglists, and saw that there are quite many people that have problems with their PS/2 mice. Their solution was to use a serial mouse instead. His computer have only _one_ serial port, the modem uses that. :-( Can anyone help nailing this bug down? It looks like test_aux_port() returns an error, so maybe one should start there? Of course, we're willing to try patches. Is the situation the same in 3.0-STABLE? Regards, Tommy PS. Please CC both me and Christian DS. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 04:31:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA10517 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:31:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA10512 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:31:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:flEyLYnbUyU2rM9HwuPzonJevEY+qb5F@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05063; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:30:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id VAA10715; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:33:29 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199901281233.VAA10715@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Tommy Hallgren cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Christian Murray , yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:19:25 PST." <19990128121925.21690.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com> References: <19990128121925.21690.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:33:23 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >A friend recently bought a Dell Dimension XPSR 400. He's using FreeBSD >2.2.7. FreeBSD doesn't detect his PS/2 mouse. The boot message is: >"aux not functioning" with error code 250. This is a known problem, and fixed in 2.2.8 and later. The keyboard controller on Dell's motherboard is not as compatible as it should be. Please apply the attached patch to /sys/i386/isa/psm.c and rebuild the kernel. >He has tried to change some BIOS parameters, but without luck. We've >tried to change a couple of KBD_* defines to see it that could help, >we had no luck. [...] >I've asked on #freebsd@efnet and searched the mailinglists, and saw >that there are quite many people that have problems with their PS/2 >mice. Their solution was to use a serial mouse instead. No need to switch to the serial mouse. The patch should work. # I think I sent out this patch to quite a few people on the FreeBSD # mailing lists. Which mailing list archive did you search? Kazu yokota@FreeBSD.ORG Index: psm.c =================================================================== RCS file: /src/CVS/src/sys/i386/isa/psm.c,v retrieving revision 1.54 diff -u -r1.54 psm.c --- psm.c 1998/07/06 16:10:06 1.54 +++ psm.c 1998/10/12 01:40:02 @@ -576,6 +576,7 @@ switch((i = test_aux_port(kbdc))) { case 1: /* ignore this error */ + case PSM_ACK: if (verbose) log(LOG_DEBUG, "psm%d: strange result for test aux port (%d).\n", unit, i); @@ -807,9 +808,11 @@ * it has the perfectly functional aux port. We have to ignore this * error code. Even if the controller HAS error with the aux port, * it will be detected later... + * XXX: another incompatible controller returns PSM_ACK (0xfa)... */ switch ((i = test_aux_port(sc->kbdc))) { case 1: /* ignore this error */ + case PSM_ACK: if (verbose) printf("psm%d: strange result for test aux port (%d).\n", unit, i); To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 04:59:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12778 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:59:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send105.yahoomail.com (send105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA12773 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thallgren@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19990128130027.25903.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [131.116.188.217] by send105.yahoomail.com; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:00:27 PST Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:00:27 -0800 (PST) From: Tommy Hallgren Subject: Re: PS/2 mouse not found To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Christian Murray , yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ---Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > >A friend recently bought a Dell Dimension XPSR 400. He's using > >FreeBSD > >2.2.7. FreeBSD doesn't detect his PS/2 mouse. The boot message is: > >"aux not functioning" with error code 250. > > This is a known problem, and fixed in 2.2.8 and later. The keyboard > controller on Dell's motherboard is not as compatible as it should be. > > Please apply the attached patch to /sys/i386/isa/psm.c and rebuild the > kernel. Ok, we'll do that and see what happens. > # I think I sent out this patch to quite a few people on the FreeBSD > # mailing lists. Which mailing list archive did you search? I usually search -current,, -hackers and -stable for technical questions. Maybe I searched just -hackers this time. BTW, thank you for your quick response! Regards, Tommy & Christian _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 05:49:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA18175 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:49:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from chouette.inria.fr (chouette.inria.fr [138.96.24.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA18164 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:49:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr) Received: by chouette.inria.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA24119; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:49:03 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:49:03 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901281349.OAA24119@chouette.inria.fr> From: Emmanuel Duros To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: rules to allocate buffers in device drivers X-URL: http://www.inria.fr/rodeo/personnel/eduros Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am currently writing a network device driver for FreeBSD and it is still unclear to me how to allocate memory. It seems that a common way of doing it is something like: u_char *buffer; buffer = malloc( SIZE, M_DEVBUF, M_NOWAIT); However I have not seen something like this in a device driver: u_char buffer[SIZE]; Is there a particular reason for not allocating buffers statically ? I have not found anything related to how to allocate memory in kernel code (definitions of malloc parameters, etc.). Do you have any pointer on that ? Thanks Emmanuel Duros To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 06:03:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19423 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:03:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itp.ac.ru (itp.ac.ru [193.233.32.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA19414 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:03:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ks@itp.ac.ru) Received: from speecart.chg.ru (speecart.chg.ru [193.233.46.2]) by itp.ac.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03456 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:07:11 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:04:18 +0300 (MSK) Organization: Landau Institute for Theoretical Physics From: "Sergey S. Kosyakov" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: select(2) and threads Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, it seems that calling select in more than one concurrent thread cause all such threads except the last to block forever. The same situation is with poll(). The only case when select() and poll() work is when timeout is set to 0. Is select really thread safe in FreeBSD? FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE Sergey. ---------------------------------- --- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 06:04:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19619 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:04:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dcn.soongsil.ac.kr (dcn.soongsil.ac.kr [203.253.2.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA19610 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:04:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oneway@dcn.soongsil.ac.kr) Received: from prof.soongsil.ac.kr ([203.253.3.73]) by dcn.soongsil.ac.kr (8.6.9H1/8.9.11h) with SMTP id XAA01828; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:04:11 +0900 Message-ID: <000f01be4ac6$dfb7d760$4903fdcb@soongsil.ac.kr> From: "Lee, il-do" To: "terry" , "arg" , "hackers" , "dave" Subject: Writing a device driver! Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:02:40 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I will make 1394 device driver. Now, I think about device type if network device or block device. And about architecture of device. How about your opinion? 1394 device use PCI bus. But I can't get any information about it. Can you give me any information? Entry point of my device driver different to cdevse[] and bdevsw[]. In example, it include read_block and write_block ... what can I apply this entry point to device structure? When I have any other question, I will remail. I will wait your reply... regards. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 06:10:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20416 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:10:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20411 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:10:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA29931; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:10:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36B06FC5.1EA65667@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:10:13 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dyson@iquest.net CC: Matthew Dillon , toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901272216.RAA00419@y.dyson.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "John S. Dyson" wrote: > > Matthew Dillon said: > > > > : > > :So this is why pmake drives our system load average up to 8-10 before > > :dropping back down to the assigned limit of 5, huh? Maybe we should > > :fix the load average computations as John suggested. > > : > > :Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > > :http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > > There's nothing wrong with the load average computation, it's a 1, 5, > > and 15 minute pseudo-average just as advertised. What's wrong are the > > programs that try to use it to regulate themselves. > > > Yep, I didn't really mean that the existing load average calculation be > modified, but develop a better scheme for providing load regulation info > to processes. To me, load average is mostly informational, and long > term trend data. Lots of things can happen within the load average > attack interval. > > I can develop some rather complete and lossless calculations that > provide accurate and useful load indicators. In fact, I think that > a generic load mgmt scheme might be useful. Especially as we start diving more into SMP and threaded applications; which will need some effective means of throttling themselves. The problem with Matt's comment above is he doesn't offer any useful alternative, and couting child processes just isn't an effective means of throttling the overall load on a machine. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 06:16:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20942 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:16:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.tar.com (ns.tar.com [204.95.187.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20936 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:16:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dick@ns.tar.com) Received: (from dick@localhost) by ns.tar.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id IAA37488; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:16:40 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dick) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:16:40 -0600 From: "Richard Seaman, Jr." To: "Sergey S. Kosyakov" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: select(2) and threads Message-ID: <19990128081640.Q421@tar.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Sergey S. Kosyakov on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 05:04:18PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 05:04:18PM +0300, Sergey S. Kosyakov wrote: > it seems that calling select in more than one concurrent thread cause all such > threads except the last to block forever. The same situation is with poll(). The > only case when select() and poll() work is when timeout is set to 0. > Is select really thread safe in FreeBSD? What compile/link flags are you using? The poll function isn't implemented for libc_r, AFAIK (I'm assuming you're using the libc_r "user thread" code right?). If you're able to use poll, chances are good you've linked against libc, so you're probably geting the libc select, and not the libc_r select. This would account for the symptoms you describe. -- Richard Seaman, Jr. email: dick@tar.com 5182 N. Maple Lane phone: 414-367-5450 Chenequa WI 53058 fax: 414-367-5852 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 06:21:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21816 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:21:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from emma.eng.uct.ac.za (emma.eng.uct.ac.za [137.158.128.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA21778 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:21:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shaun@emma.eng.uct.ac.za) Received: (from shaun@localhost) by emma.eng.uct.ac.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10451 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:21:03 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from shaun) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:21:03 +0200 From: Shaun Courtney To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: DPT wobbles Message-ID: <19990128162102.A10431@emma.eng.uct.ac.za> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi We are using 2.2.8-Release with an Asus p2B motherboard and a dpt 2144uw raid controller. Connected on the scsi chain are 3 ibm 4Gig, 50 pin drives that form the raid array and an hp dat drive. After days of operation the dpt controller starts beeping indicating a drive failure, if we rebuild the array without replacing the "failed" drive it continues to work for another couple of days and then starts beeping again - often it is an entirely different drive that has failed. We have replaced all three drives and have put the machine onto a UPS, but still the problem occurs. Can anyone help? Thanks Shaun -- Faculty of Engineering and the Built Environment http://www.eng.uct.ac.za Acting EBE IT Manager To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 06:22:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21954 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:22:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itp.ac.ru (itp.ac.ru [193.233.32.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA21940 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:22:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ks@itp.ac.ru) Received: from speecart.chg.ru (speecart.chg.ru [193.233.46.2]) by itp.ac.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03540; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:25:59 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990128081640.Q421@tar.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:23:05 +0300 (MSK) Organization: Landau Institute for Theoretical Physics From: "Sergey S. Kosyakov" To: "Richard Seaman, Jr." Subject: Re: select(2) and threads Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Jan-99 Richard Seaman, Jr. wrote: > On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 05:04:18PM +0300, Sergey S. Kosyakov wrote: > >> it seems that calling select in more than one concurrent thread cause all >> such >> threads except the last to block forever. The same situation is with poll(). >> The >> only case when select() and poll() work is when timeout is set to 0. >> Is select really thread safe in FreeBSD? > > What compile/link flags are you using? The poll function isn't implemented > for libc_r, AFAIK (I'm assuming you're using the libc_r "user thread" code > right?). > Yes, I use some trick - there was really _thread_sys_poll. But my main question about select - Xerox ILU calls select() for every "listen" socket and when socket is waiting for read. Flags: "cc -pthread" --- ---------------------------------- Sergey Kosyakov Laboratory of Distributed Computing Department of High-Performance Computing and Applied Network Research Landau Institute for Theoretical Physics E-Mail: ks@itp.ac.ru Date: 28-Jan-99 Time: 17:18:16 ---------------------------------- --- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 06:36:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23443 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:36:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23418 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:36:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pergj@ifi.uio.no) Received: from haugstari.ifi.uio.no (4417@haugstari.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id PAA14740; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:36:30 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (pergj@localhost) by haugstari.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:36:28 GMT To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: lxr@linux.no Subject: FreeBSD kernel code indexed at lxr.linux.no Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 From: Per Kristian Gjermshus Date: 28 Jan 1999 15:36:22 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 6 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/Emacs 20.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id GAA23425 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have now put up a cross reference of the FreeBSD kernel code at . The version indexed is -CURRENT as of today, and I hope to update it regularly. Per Kristian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 08:11:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05475 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:11:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA05470 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:11:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 7294 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 16:11:21 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 16:11:21 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21412; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:11:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901281611.LAA21412@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <36B06FC5.1EA65667@softweyr.com> from Wes Peters at "Jan 28, 99 07:10:13 am" To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:11:18 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters said: > > > > I can develop some rather complete and lossless calculations that > > provide accurate and useful load indicators. In fact, I think that > > a generic load mgmt scheme might be useful. > > Especially as we start diving more into SMP and threaded applications; > which will need some effective means of throttling themselves. The > problem with Matt's comment above is he doesn't offer any useful > alternative, and couting child processes just isn't an effective means > of throttling the overall load on a machine. > It is *sometimes* appropriate to criticize, even when alternatives aren't provided. The kind of technique that I have successfully experimented with is a scheme that has two phases: A costing mechanism and a stats mechanism. The costing mechanism is a direct call from when the resource is attempted to be allocated. It checks immediately if the cost (and recent incurred costs, since the last stats run) is greater than a threshold. If that threshold is attained, then the process blocks until the stats mechanism sees that the recent peak + less recently decayed peak is less than a certain threshold. The scheme is as follows (note the lack of arrays -- this is a single resource example). See that this looks like a nearly peak responding filter with a decay. I am also using floats to throw out scale factor issues: float rate_resource_history; float rate_resource_recent; float rate_resource_threshold; (In items / sec ) #define TC .1 seconds; #define TCATTACK .50 /* Attack time is approx TC/TCATTACK */ #define TCDECAY .02 /* Decay time is approx TC/TCDECAY */ rate_resource_charge() { rate_resource_recent += 1; while ((rate_resource_recent / TC) + rate_resource_history > rate_resource_threshold) { block_on_rate_resource_history; } } rate_resource_scan_TCorso() { float new_rate_resource_history, new_rate_resource_recent, new_rate_resource_add; new_rate_resource_add = rate_resource_recent * TCATTACK; rate_resource_recent -= new_rate_resource_add; if (new_rate_resource_add > new_rate_resource_history) new_rate_resource_history = new_rate_resource_add; else new_rate_resource_history = TCDECAY * new_rate_resource_add + (1 - TCDECAY) * rate_resource_history; rate_resource_history = new_rate_resource_history; if (wakeup_needed && ((rate_resource_history + rate_resource_recent) < rate_resource_threshold)) wakeup_rate_resource_history; } } There might be some errors in the above (because this was interpreted from my VM test code), but you can see the peak sensing behavior between TC sample rate samples. There is also an average decay behavior, and there is no way that the resource can be over allocated (in a rate sense), even in a peak rate sense (esp if the TCATTACK is set to 1.0.) The attack time allows for bursty behavior, and still limits the rate. This concept can also be extended in a hierarchical fashion. Problems with this include the issue of integer truncation (which can be dealt with by scaling.) No information is lost by using a slightly slower attack time also -- which does alot to allow for some burstiness without forgetting about it. This code also doesn't loose information, so hierarchical designs might make sense. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 08:55:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10551 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:55:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10527; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:55:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17958; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:55:25 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199901281655.OAA17958@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: softupdates on / In-Reply-To: <199901271139.DAA65461@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> from Satoshi Asami at "Jan 27, 1999 3:39: 1 am" To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:55:25 -0200 (EDT) Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG CC: to hackers, as it may be better discussed there. #define quoting(Satoshi Asami) // Today I tried to remotely upgrade a machine set up by someone else. // Unfortunately softupdates was set in / and every make installworld // fails in /sbin as it runs out of space. // // I'd dare not take down the machine in the middle of installworld (even // though it's only upgrading from 3.0-current of about 3 weeks ago -- // I've seen weird things happen). I ended up writing a script doing a // "cd $dir; make install; sleep 10" in /usr/src/sbin and it's finally // chugging along. // // Is there some other way out of this? Also, a caution to others -- do // not set softupdates on /, you can get into a real mess. Is there a strong reason for softupdates be a tunefs option, instead of a mount option ? This could be easily solved by a mount -u -o async / make install mount -u -o softdep / Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro "This .sig is not meant to be politically correct." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 09:09:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12193 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:09:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12179 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:09:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id JAA07773; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:09:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:09:30 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901281709.JAA07773@apollo.backplane.com> To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters), dyson@iquest.net, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901281611.LAA21412@y.dyson.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> :> Especially as we start diving more into SMP and threaded applications; :> which will need some effective means of throttling themselves. The :> problem with Matt's comment above is he doesn't offer any useful :> alternative, and couting child processes just isn't an effective means :> of throttling the overall load on a machine. :> :It is *sometimes* appropriate to criticize, even when alternatives aren't :provided. The kind of technique that I have successfully experimented with :is a scheme that has two phases: A costing mechanism and a stats mechanism. : :The costing mechanism is a direct call from when the resource is attempted :to be allocated. It checks immediately if the cost (and recent incurred Well, actually I would put forth that limiting the number of processes any one subsystem is allowed to fork is perfectly acceptable and generally produces better results then trying to dynamically balance the load between subsystems on any given machine. The lesson I learned at BEST was simple: When you are out of cpu, you are out of cpu. All that dynamically balancing the load does is cause ALL of the subsystems to slow down, and cause all of the subsystems to start to clog the system. In a very heavily loaded system ( aka our old IRIX box, shellx, which had 20,000 heavily used accounts ), it only took a small imbalance to create a fork cascade failure. If sendmail got a little overloaded, popper would not be able to retire connections quickly enough. If popper got a little overloaded, sendmail would not be able to retire connections quickly enough. If sendmail is operating normally but, say, the popper goes crazy, it is not appropriate to slap limits on sendmail. If sendmail is checking the load, this is precisely what happens. What we do now is put an absolute limit on each subsystem that weighs in at around 70% of the machine's total resources. That doesn't mean the subsystem *gets* 70% of the machine's total resource, it just means that the subsystem can't *exceed* 70%. so, for example, sendmail is limited to around 200 processes. When a subsystem gets attacked or fails through other machines, the machine slows down... but the machine does *not* enter into a cascade failure situation. The moment the attack ceases, the machine recovers pretty quickly. The key is that the attack may max out one subsystem and slow down others, but it will not indirectly cause other subsystems to try to limit themselves just because the load average goes up. AOLs mail system used to barf once or twice a week, either creating large mail backlogs on our machines when down, or making hundreds ( even thousands ) of incoming connections when their system came back up after a long downtime. It is simply not possible for a machine to predict instantanious load. No matter what you do, therefore using the load for a feedback mechanism is always going to be problematic. The reason it is not possible to predict instantanious load is simple: The act of allocating resources does not in of itself generate a load, it is *using* those resources that generates the load. For example, taking sendmail again: When sendmail clogs up on outgoing connections it typically spends memory resources but no cpu resources. When sendmail clogs up on incoming connections it typically spends cpu resources AND memory resources. If sendmail clogs up on lots of incoming connections being slowed down by a network screwup 'the internet is lossy today', they may not eat cpu or memory, but when the WAN link suddenly clears up you could get a massive load on the preexisting connections without any additional forks. For the first two years of BEST's existance, I literally spent day and night trying to balance things on overloaded machines: The web server, sendmail, news, user load, popper, and so forth. Load-relating balancing never worked well. It took a year before I realized that it wouldn't work at all. After we started slapping absolute limits on things, the machines stopped crashing due to multi-subsysem fork cascade failures. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 09:34:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16255 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:34:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA16245 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:34:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 8934 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 17:34:28 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 17:34:28 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA21561; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:34:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901281734.MAA21561@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901281709.JAA07773@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 28, 99 09:09:30 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:34:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > :> > :> Especially as we start diving more into SMP and threaded applications; > :> which will need some effective means of throttling themselves. The > :> problem with Matt's comment above is he doesn't offer any useful > :> alternative, and couting child processes just isn't an effective means > :> of throttling the overall load on a machine. > :> > :It is *sometimes* appropriate to criticize, even when alternatives aren't > :provided. The kind of technique that I have successfully experimented with > :is a scheme that has two phases: A costing mechanism and a stats mechanism. > : > :The costing mechanism is a direct call from when the resource is attempted > :to be allocated. It checks immediately if the cost (and recent incurred > > Well, actually I would put forth that limiting the number of processes > any one subsystem is allowed to fork is perfectly acceptable and generally > produces better results then trying to dynamically balance the load > between subsystems on any given machine. > I don't agree about on "any" given machine. > > For the first two years of BEST's existance, I literally spent day and > night trying to balance things on overloaded machines: The web server, > sendmail, news, user load, popper, and so forth. Load-relating balancing > never worked well. It took a year before I realized that it wouldn't > work at all. After we started slapping absolute limits on things, the > machines stopped crashing due to multi-subsysem fork cascade failures. > There is value in both absolute and rate limits (control theory and systems are your friend.) It all applies, but your experience at Best is one datapoint with one specific developer and not "any" developer. I suspect that this technique that I have developed had not been used at Best. It might not be applicable for what you were trying to do, but it is indeed applicable to what I am trying to do. Paging rate limitation is a very valuable load balancing tool, but if you don't design your technology correctly, it is reasonble to get odd or non-productive results. Throttling fork rate is also a valuable tool, and maybe a hard limit is good also. It is all about how creative you are (or want to be) in your solution :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 09:40:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17080 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:40:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16990 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:40:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA08188 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:39:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:39:39 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun1 Reply-To: zhihuizhang To: hackers Subject: Question concerning timer and rdtsc Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am reading 2.2.8 Stable source code and have two questions about the timer and rdtsc instruction: (1) In file clock.c, timer0_state has four possible values: RELEASED, RELEASE_PENDING, ACQUIRED, and ACQUIRE_PENDING. I can not figure out the usage of these four states. Moreover, I tried to see how the variable is changed in the source code. It seems to me that it can only has the value of RELEASED (0). Who is going to change it? For what purpose? (2) rdtsc is used in microtime to get the internal counter. This value is related to the Mhz of CPU (and the Mhz may be different, say 133, 300, etc). We must convert it to microseconds, right? In microtime, this is done by multiplying a variable i586_ctr_multiplier. I tried to figure out how the variable is initialized, but it does not make sense to me. The statement that does the initialization is: multiplier = (1000000LL << I586_CTR_MULTIPLIER_SHIFT) / i586_freq; and i586_freq is often given as the return value of rdtsc(). Thanks for any help. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 09:48:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17909 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:48:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17904 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:48:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA02377; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:48:23 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199901281748.LAA02377@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901281709.JAA07773@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 28, 1999 9: 9:30 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:48:23 -0600 (CST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :> > :> Especially as we start diving more into SMP and threaded applications; > :> which will need some effective means of throttling themselves. The > :> problem with Matt's comment above is he doesn't offer any useful > :> alternative, and couting child processes just isn't an effective means > :> of throttling the overall load on a machine. > :> > :It is *sometimes* appropriate to criticize, even when alternatives aren't > :provided. The kind of technique that I have successfully experimented with > :is a scheme that has two phases: A costing mechanism and a stats mechanism. > : > :The costing mechanism is a direct call from when the resource is attempted > :to be allocated. It checks immediately if the cost (and recent incurred > > Well, actually I would put forth that limiting the number of processes > any one subsystem is allowed to fork is perfectly acceptable and generally > produces better results then trying to dynamically balance the load > between subsystems on any given machine. > > The lesson I learned at BEST was simple: When you are out of cpu, you > are out of cpu. All that dynamically balancing the load does is cause > ALL of the subsystems to slow down, and cause all of the subsystems to > start to clog the system. In a very heavily loaded system ( aka our old > IRIX box, shellx, which had 20,000 heavily used accounts ), it only took > a small imbalance to create a fork cascade failure. If sendmail got > a little overloaded, popper would not be able to retire connections > quickly enough. If popper got a little overloaded, sendmail would not > be able to retire connections quickly enough. > To step back in here again... It's kinda interesting the discussion this generated. I think we're all discusssing slightly different problems, so we're coming up with different ways to address them. Here's my problem. Cron turned into a massive forkbomb every minute, and especially every 10 minutes. Not only did the system nearly go dead at those points, but at times, it took 5 minutes to catch up. Supposed you have to run 60 jobs per minute, and they all take around a second to execute. If you run them one second at a time, you're likely to get done with them every minute. If you try to run them all at once, you're likely not to get finished after a minute, causing a backlog. My only goal was to spread cron's jobs out a bit, so I didn't saturate my nfs server's ethernet every 10 mins. When users are allowed to submit their own cron jobs, and times to run, *and* the application they are using suggests to them that */10 or even * is correct, cron needs to be able to cope with this. While I think a way that took how busy the CPU is, rather than how busy cron is would be a better metric to go by, it's obviously not as simple as it looks at the moment. Load average simply doesn't work, especially for a machine that's a heavy heavy NFS client. I can see load averages of 12.00, and the CPU being completely idle. The NFS server is just busy. My patches have a feature where they'll continually increasing the fork speed, if it's obvious that the backlog is getting to some silly proportions. Perhaps this is wrong, and it should just drop new jobs. In my case this probably wouldn't be bad, but I think that's definately 'breaking' cron, and should be an optional feature. What I came up with, sounds a lot like John Dyson's sample piece of code, except I used integer math, and he's using floating point. (He's also using DSP/PLL terminology a bit more, too. :) I wasn't exactly sure where John suggests putting that code, cron, or somewhere deeper down? Even if it's not an optimal solution, i'm sure plenty of other FreeBSD users could use something like a rate limited cron. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 09:58:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18748 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:58:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18741 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:58:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@ludd.luth.se) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (pb@father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00811 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:58:08 +0100 From: Peter Brevik Received: (pb@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) id SAA08205 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:58:07 +0100 Message-Id: <199901281758.SAA08205@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Atapi underrun, too tight wait ? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:58:07 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm trying to read sectors from a atapi cdrom but it seems I get buffer under run problems. Any ideas on how to solve this ? I have a suspicion that the CPU is so fast (350 MHz) that it will loop some delay somewhere. So that it timeout to early.. /pb Equipment: CPU: Pentium II (quarter-micron) (348.49-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x651 Stepping=1 Features=0x183f9ff,,MMX,> wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, accel, dma, iordy wcd0: 1779/4134Kb/sec, 128Kb cache, audio play, 255 volume levels, ejectable tray wcd0: no disc inside, unlocked wcd0: mode 2 form 1(XA) 2, multisession, CD-DA read stream, C2, ISRC, UPC Problem: Trying to read sectors from Atapi CD-Rom which results in errors like: ar.result.code = 6 (data underrun) ar.result.status = 88 ar.result.code = 1 (i/o finished with error) ar.result.status = 81 ar.result.error = 180 ar.result.code = 6 (data underrun) ar.result.status = 88 ar.result.code = 1 (i/o finished with error) ar.result.status = 81 ar.result.error = 180 and so on.. (syslog: wcd0: i/o error, status=51, error=b4) Kernel: 2.2.7 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:01:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19103 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:01:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18994 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:00:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from localhost (fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA04811 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:41:44 +0600 (NS) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:41:44 +0600 (NS) From: Max Khon Reply-To: Max Khon To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, there! Is there anybody successfully using HP Colorado T4000s tape drive? It should support compression but `mt status` gives the following: --- cut here --- Mode Density Blocksize bpi Compression Current: 0x45 512 bytes 0 unsupported ---------available modes--------- 0: 0x45 512 bytes 0 unsupported 1: 0x45 512 bytes 0 unsupported 2: 0x45 512 bytes 0 unsupported 3: 0x45 512 bytes 0 unsupported --- cut here --- --- cut here --- Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: Copyright (c) 1992-1999 FreeBSD Inc. Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE #1: Sun Jan 24 20:51:57 NS 1999 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: root@:/usr/src/sys/compile/iclub Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: CPU: Pentium/P54C (200.46-MHz 586-class CPU) Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52c Stepping=12 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: Features=0x1bf Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: config> quit Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: avail memory = 62722048 (61252K bytes) Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xf0262000. Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: chip0: rev 0x03 on pci0.0.0 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.0 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: ide_pci0: rev 0x00 on pci0.7.1 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: vx0: <3COM 3C590 Etherlink III PCI> rev 0x00 int a irq 12 on pci0.9.0 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: utp[*utp*] address 00:20:af:f7:3c:33 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: Warning! Defective early revision adapter! Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: vga0: rev 0x40 int a irq 10 on pci0.11.0 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 11 on pci0.12.0 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: ahc0: aic7880 Single Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: sc0 on isa Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: atkbd0 irq 1 on isa Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: sio0: type 16550A Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: sio1: type 16550A Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: lpt0: Interrupt-driven port Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa0000 msize 131072 on isa Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: npx0 on motherboard Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: apm0 on isa Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: apm: found APM BIOS version 1.2 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: Intel Pentium detected, installing workaround for F00F bug Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: Waiting 2 seconds for SCSI devices to settle Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: sa0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 4 lun 0 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: sa0: Removable Sequential Access SCSI-2 device Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: sa0: 3.300MB/s transfers Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: changing root device to da0s1a Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: da0: Fixed Direct Access SCS Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: I-2 device Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: da0: 20.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 15), Tagged Queueing Enabled Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: da0: 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 527C) Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: da1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: da1: 20.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 15), Tagged Queueing Enabled Jan 28 16:58:43 iclub /kernel: da1: 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 527C) --- cut here --- /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:04:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19772 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:04:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19757 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:04:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA09766; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:04:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:04:41 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901281804.KAA09766@apollo.backplane.com> To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901281734.MAA21561@y.dyson.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Throttling fork rate is also a valuable tool, and maybe a hard limit is good :also. It is all about how creative you are (or want to be) in your solution :-). Throttling the fork rate immediately leads to complaints. The perception of load is easily as important as the reality. We had put fork rate limits on both sendmail and popper and the result was a hundreds of calls to tech support :-(. I even had load-based feedback mechanisms. It was a disaster. The issue is that the load is an interactive load, not a batch load -- it is not acceptable to accept a connection and then pause for 5 minutes before yielding a shell prompt, process a popper request, or even respond with an SMTP HELO. Or handle a web request. The machine *must* be able to handle a temporary overload. Even *mail delivery* is an interactive load -- users have come to expect their email to propogate in 5 minutes or less and if it doesn't, we got complaints. While BEST is certainly not indicative of all situations, we cover the spectrum pretty well for general-use server installations: There are shell/web machines, mail servers, mail frontend and backend boxes, mailing list servers, news feed boxes, DNS boxes, radius boxes, etc etc etc. Each one operates under load differently and requires different hard limits. In BEST's earlier days, functions were combined ( we didn't have the money to buy lots of machines ). For example, the mail machines are tuned with fork limits such that sendmail is able to eat around 90% of the machine's resources worst case, but sendmail on the shell/web servers are tuned with fork limits such that they can't eat more then 50%. The only thing that ever worked reliably were absolute limits. The internet is so bursty that a machine *must* be able to accept a high load or overload situation for upwards of 10 or 15 minutes *without* slapping limits on processes. That is, it must allow the processes to build up in such burst-load situations. An absolute limit works extremely well for this sort of response requirement. It says, in effect, "I will allow you to overload the machine to a point, as long as you can recover from it eventually". i.e. even though you are not allowing any one subsystem to overload the machine, summing all the hard limits together yields a number > 100 so, in effect, you are allowing a subsystem to take the machine over the top. In effect, allowing a machine's load to pass 25 for a few minutes is perfectly acceptable so long a the machine can recover, but slapping load-limiting limitations on, say, forks ( this being different from the absolute limit ) simply creates a cascade failure situation earlier that might have been avoided if you let the machine run with it a little longer. The absolute limit in effect allows the machine to temporarily overload while still maintaining responsiveness, and operates on the assumption that the 'burst' will not last forever. Since the burst is already generating a higher load then you would nominally allow, this temporary overloading will do a better job for a short period of time. If the temporary overloading becomes more permanent, *both* the absolute limitation methodology and the dynamic feedback limiting methodology have the same problem: You've run out of cpu, or memory, or disk I/O, or all three... and no matter what you do you will piss some customer off. Both methodologies can prevent a machine from going poof, but I firmly believe that the absolute-limit methodology will allow a machine to recover much more quickly from an overload then a dynamic balancing methodology. That is my experience, anyway. -Matt Matthew Dillon :-- :John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, :dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid :jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:07:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20142 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:07:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA20131 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:07:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 17262 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 18:07:01 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 18:07:01 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA21641; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:07:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901281807.NAA21641@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901281748.LAA02377@home.dragondata.com> from Kevin Day at "Jan 28, 99 11:48:23 am" To: toasty@home.dragondata.com (Kevin Day) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:07:01 -0500 (EST) Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kevin Day said: > > To step back in here again... > > It's kinda interesting the discussion this generated. > > I think we're all discusssing slightly different problems, so we're coming > up with different ways to address them. > > > Here's my problem. > > Cron turned into a massive forkbomb every minute, and especially every 10 > minutes. Not only did the system nearly go dead at those points, but at > times, it took 5 minutes to catch up. > > Supposed you have to run 60 jobs per minute, and they all take around a > second to execute. If you run them one second at a time, you're likely to > get done with them every minute. If you try to run them all at once, you're > likely not to get finished after a minute, causing a backlog. > The same problem exists in other subsystems also. If you limit the rate by limiting peaks, you often (depending on app) end up with too small a limit, or still getting serious peaks. Sometimes an absolute limit is adequate, but a true rate limit would be / is a big plus. I added some stuff to the VM code and had gotten very interesting (positive) results for load/resource sharing. Brute force techniques can take too much CPU (IMO), but the scheme that I implemented has almost NO overhead. (I suspect that you also produced a low overhead implementation.) It seems that a general scheme would be nice for the system... I can see reasons for it in the VM code, fork code, and other places. I really don't know how it should be done (this is pretty much a food for thought discussion.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:09:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20412 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:09:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20407 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:09:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07571; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:09:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11835; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:09:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:09:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901281809.KAA11835@vashon.polstra.com> To: wilson@ensim.com Subject: Re: need help with linker_set In-Reply-To: <36AC3072.E5EEF339@ensim.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <36AC3072.E5EEF339@ensim.com>, Xun Wilson Huang wrote: > Hi, > > I have been reading codes from the FreeBSD kernel and discover this > neat thing "linker_set". As I understand, linker_set allows different > modules/subsystems/files to put data into a "set" by inserting an > assembly directive .stabs in the c code. At the linking stage, the > linker puts all these set elements into an array, and one can write code > to enumerate this array of set elements. ( Am I getting this right?) Yes, exactly right. You end up with a NULL-terminated vector of addresses, immediately preceded by an int that gives the number of elements in the set. We also support this for ELF, using a somewhat different technique. > I have been digging for something similar to this on other platform and > sadly, I can't find anything. I am wondering if any BSD guru here can > point me to something that leads to a more system independent version of > this trick? thanks a million. The most portable way to do it would be to use C++ and include global constructors which at start-up time would register each module into a data structure representing the set. You wouldn't need to write all the code in C++, just the tiny portion that contains the constructor. The rest of the code could still be in C. We used something similar to this in "src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_autoinit.cc". If you wanted to use only C code, you could use GCC's "constructor" extension. See the section "Declaring Attributes of Functions" section of the gcc info pages. I don't know of a portable way to get what you want using strictly ANSI/ISO C only. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:17:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21441 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:17:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21424 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:17:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA09891; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:17:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:17:37 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901281817.KAA09891@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kevin Day Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901281748.LAA02377@home.dragondata.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Here's my problem. : :Cron turned into a massive forkbomb every minute, and especially every 10 :minutes. Not only did the system nearly go dead at those points, but at :times, it took 5 minutes to catch up. : :Supposed you have to run 60 jobs per minute, and they all take around a :second to execute. If you run them one second at a time, you're likely to :... : :My only goal was to spread cron's jobs out a bit, so I didn't saturate my :nfs server's ethernet every 10 mins. When users are allowed to submit their :... :While I think a way that took how busy the CPU is, rather than how busy cron :is would be a better metric to go by, it's obviously not as simple as it :... :My patches have a feature where they'll continually increasing the fork :speed, if it's obvious that the backlog is getting to some silly :proportions. Perhaps this is wrong, and it should just drop new jobs. In my :case this probably wouldn't be bad, but I think that's definately 'breaking' :cron, and should be an optional feature. :... :What I came up with, sounds a lot like John Dyson's sample piece of code, :except I used integer math, and he's using floating point. (He's also using :... :Kevin I think a rate limited cron is a good solution, but I would also ( if you haven't already ) supply a max-parallel-jobs option. Increasing the fork rate works to a degree, but you also have to make sure that cron (A) cannot kill the machine, and (B) cannot fall into a fork cascade failure by overloading the machine so much that the jobs can't be retired faster then new jobs are queued. So, for example, you might have a feedback parameter X but you should also have an absolute limit Y, which you set relatively high. Lets see... here's a good example. Lets say that every 10 minutes cron decides to fork off 50 jobs simultaniously, but at midnight and noon cron wants to fork off 200 jobs simultaniously. Lets say that every 10 minutes, with nominal delaying tactics and no hard limits, you are able to limit the maximum number of parallel jobs to, say, 35. Say you want a relatively sharp feedback to bump up the fork rate to get the jobs done before the next 10 minute period occurs. These same parameters, however, could fail utterly at noon and midnight. At noon and midnight the rate parameters that worked for the 10 minute jobs might result, say, in 120 parallel jobs. This is where the hard limit comes in. If you specified a hard limit that was nominally greater then the 10 minute parallel job load, but less then the midnight and noon job load, you effectively allow your nominal case through but force the jobs that get run at midnight and noon to 'spread out' a little more. You might specify a hard limit of, for example, 60 parallel jobs. This is well within the 35 parallel jobs that the fork-rate limit produces on the 10 minute jobs but prevents the midnight and noon jobs from overloading the system. In effect, your feedback parameter solves your NFS burstiness problem under 'normal' load conditions and the absolute limit handles the more severe noon & midnight cases. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:21:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21814 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:21:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21809 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:21:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07662; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:21:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11893; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:21:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:21:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901281821.KAA11893@vashon.polstra.com> To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-Reply-To: <199901270134.RAA27041@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199901260721.XAA14049@apollo.backplane.com> <19990126191810C.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199901270134.RAA27041@apollo.backplane.com>, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > :How do its features compare with CVSup? > > cvsup and cpdup are two totally different programs. cvsup manages > CVS trees. cpdup is a templating/mirroring tool. Your characterization of CVSup isn't accurate. CVSup is a fully general mirroring tool which includes additional features and speed-ups that are oriented toward CVS repositories. CVSup can be used to mirror anything, including binary files, hard links, symbolic links, and device nodes. It selects from a number of different kinds of optimizations, depending on the type of file it is updating. In addition to RCS file optimizations, it also includes the rsync algorithm, a specialized algorithm for log files, and some others. At least one commercial company employs CVSup to do field upgrades of their FreeBSD-based product. In that application, CVSup upgrades the entire root and /usr filesystems. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:26:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22262 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:26:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22252 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:26:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id MAA06446; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:26:13 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199901281826.MAA06446@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901281817.KAA09891@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 28, 1999 10:17:37 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:26:12 -0600 (CST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :Here's my problem. > : > :Cron turned into a massive forkbomb every minute, and especially every 10 > :minutes. Not only did the system nearly go dead at those points, but at > :times, it took 5 minutes to catch up. > : > :Supposed you have to run 60 jobs per minute, and they all take around a > :second to execute. If you run them one second at a time, you're likely to > :... > : > :My only goal was to spread cron's jobs out a bit, so I didn't saturate my > :nfs server's ethernet every 10 mins. When users are allowed to submit their > :... > :While I think a way that took how busy the CPU is, rather than how busy cron > :is would be a better metric to go by, it's obviously not as simple as it > :... > :My patches have a feature where they'll continually increasing the fork > :speed, if it's obvious that the backlog is getting to some silly > :proportions. Perhaps this is wrong, and it should just drop new jobs. In my > :case this probably wouldn't be bad, but I think that's definately 'breaking' > :cron, and should be an optional feature. > :... > :What I came up with, sounds a lot like John Dyson's sample piece of code, > :except I used integer math, and he's using floating point. (He's also using > :... > :Kevin > > I think a rate limited cron is a good solution, but I would also ( if you > haven't already ) supply a max-parallel-jobs option. Increasing the > fork rate works to a degree, but you also have to make sure that cron > (A) cannot kill the machine, and (B) cannot fall into a fork cascade > failure by overloading the machine so much that the jobs can't be > retired faster then new jobs are queued. > > So, for example, you might have a feedback parameter X but you should > also have an absolute limit Y, which you set relatively high. > > Lets see... here's a good example. Lets say that every 10 minutes cron > decides to fork off 50 jobs simultaniously, but at midnight and noon > cron wants to fork off 200 jobs simultaniously. > > Lets say that every 10 minutes, with nominal delaying tactics and no hard > limits, you are able to limit the maximum number of parallel jobs to, > say, 35. Say you want a relatively sharp feedback to bump up the fork > rate to get the jobs done before the next 10 minute period occurs. > > These same parameters, however, could fail utterly at noon and midnight. > At noon and midnight the rate parameters that worked for the 10 minute > jobs might result, say, in 120 parallel jobs. > > This is where the hard limit comes in. If you specified a hard limit > that was nominally greater then the 10 minute parallel job load, but > less then the midnight and noon job load, you effectively allow your > nominal case through but force the jobs that get run at midnight > and noon to 'spread out' a little more. > > You might specify a hard limit of, for example, 60 parallel jobs. This > is well within the 35 parallel jobs that the fork-rate limit produces > on the 10 minute jobs but prevents the midnight and noon jobs from > overloading the system. > > In effect, your feedback parameter solves your NFS burstiness problem > under 'normal' load conditions and the absolute limit handles the more > severe noon & midnight cases. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > I considered a 'maximum children' limit. How do you prevent a user from breaking cron by executing 100 shell scripts that have 'sleep 10000' in them? Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:27:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22383 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:27:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22378 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:27:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA10025; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:27:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:27:38 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901281827.KAA10025@apollo.backplane.com> To: John Polstra Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question References: <199901260721.XAA14049@apollo.backplane.com> <19990126191810C.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> <199901281821.KAA11893@vashon.polstra.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Matthew Dillon wrote: :> :> :How do its features compare with CVSup? :> :> cvsup and cpdup are two totally different programs. cvsup manages :> CVS trees. cpdup is a templating/mirroring tool. : :Your characterization of CVSup isn't accurate. CVSup is a fully :general mirroring tool which includes additional features and :speed-ups that are oriented toward CVS repositories. CVSup can be :used to mirror anything, including binary files, hard links, symbolic :links, and device nodes. It selects from a number of different kinds :of optimizations, depending on the type of file it is updating. In :addition to RCS file optimizations, it also includes the rsync :algorithm, a specialized algorithm for log files, and some others. : :At least one commercial company employs CVSup to do field upgrades :of their FreeBSD-based product. In that application, CVSup upgrades :the entire root and /usr filesystems. : :John Ah, in that case cpdup and cvsup are similar. cvsup is probably more powerful, being a stream-oriented protocol and thus not requiring NFS. I find cpdup extremely easy to use, though... almost like cp. cvsup is probably a bit more involved from a configuration standpoint. -Matt Matthew Dillon :-- : John Polstra jdp@polstra.com : John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA : "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." : -- H. L. Mencken : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:36:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23228 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:36:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23223 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:36:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA10067; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:36:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:36:04 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901281836.KAA10067@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kevin Day Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901281826.MAA06446@home.dragondata.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> : :I considered a 'maximum children' limit. : :How do you prevent a user from breaking cron by executing 100 shell scripts :that have 'sleep 10000' in them? : :Kevin By closing his account. No, really... by closing his account. If a user abuses his privilage there isn't much you can do about it no matter what kind of rate limiting you have. All you can do is try to set the limits such that you can still login as root and turn off the account. About once a month, some user on some BEST machine makes a mistake and does something that causes a huge load. It is usually NOT intentional. Sometimes it's a CGI runaway on a heavily-accessed site, sometimes it's a shell script gone awry. We've seen loads of 600. The funny thing is that even with a load of 600, people can still login to the machine and do stuff. This is because either the user or the subsystem involved has hit a hard limit. Without hard limits, such screwups would take down the machine. Given the choice between a machine going down and being able to login and fix the problem, I'll choose the latter every time. I would rather the web server slow down for 10 minutes while we fix the problem then have the machine take 20 minutes to die and then have to reboot it. It is not possible to handle these situations automatically... no amount of load balancing or rate limiting software will prevent a user's mistake from loading down the system or interfering with other users. One has alarm points - if the load goes over a hundred something is obviously wrong and bells start ringing :-). -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:46:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23893 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:46:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA23887 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:46:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 2944 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 18:45:43 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 18:45:43 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA21716; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:45:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901281845.NAA21716@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901281804.KAA09766@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 28, 99 10:04:41 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:45:42 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > :Throttling fork rate is also a valuable tool, and maybe a hard limit is good > :also. It is all about how creative you are (or want to be) in your solution :-). > > Throttling the fork rate immediately leads to complaints. The perception > of load is easily as important as the reality. We had put fork rate > limits on both sendmail and popper and the result was a hundreds of calls > to tech support :-(. I even had load-based feedback mechanisms. It was > a disaster. > I understand that. > > The issue is that the load is an interactive load, not a batch load -- it > is not acceptable to accept a connection and then pause for 5 minutes > before yielding a shell prompt, process a popper request, or even > respond with an SMTP HELO. Or handle a web request. The machine *must* > be able to handle a temporary overload. Even *mail delivery* is an > interactive load -- users have come to expect their email to propogate in > 5 minutes or less and if it doesn't, we got complaints. > If you are talking about 5minutes, then there is a problem with the mechanism chosen. It is tricky to produce a numerically stable result with large sample intervals -- this is where things need to be thought out carefully. Given ad-hoc algorithms, and a 10Hz sample rate, it is possible to mess things up pretty badly (response wise.) If you end up with even 5second delays, people might complain (I sure would.) I hate for shell prompts to be delayed like that. By having (nearly) runaway sendmail (and other service) processes, I can see how responsiveness can get sluggish. Imagine having 100 sendmails fork off instantaneously!!! That would certainly cause interactive performance to glitch a little, wouldn't it? How big is too big? Is 1000 sendmails too many, or is 100 or is 10? What are the real limits on the system (think memory bandwidth or processor bandwidth or network bandwidth)? By limiting yourself to a fixed maximum number of processes (esp in the case of sendmail), you aren't really limiting yourself to the actual resource utilization (bandwidth)... (At least, I hope you aren't running out of memory :-)). What needs to be limited is the "bandwidth". I'll bet that rate schemes that you have tested, set the "bandwidth" to a fixed limit, and you decided that "rate" limiting was bad? Well, that isn't the way to do it -- it needs to be done on a sharing basis -- dynamically estimate the capabilities of the system, and limit based upon that in a fair share scheme. Simple schemes provide a fixed "capability" limit in the system, I propose more complete schemes. When having the luxury of doing the calculations for a fixed limit, the stability of the math isn't critical. It seems to me that correct rate limiting provides a sharing approach, and not a limiting approach. (The key is that limiting approaches often artifically limit too low, or don't work.) System resource limits: fork rate: forks per second paging rate: pages per second. cpu usage rate: seconds of CPU time per second. The already existing scheduler code does a good job of the "cpu usage rate", and that problem is simpler because it generally has a stable amount of CPU available (100%.) "forks per second possible" (which is a significant load issue, becuase it ends up being a transient usage of CPU -- where CPU load accounting isn't practical), and "pages per second possible" both have to be estimated to manage the resource. Hard limits on either end up artifically limiting too low, or not limiting at all. Numerical methods and stability is your friend. I suspect that part of this kind of thinking is why the existing scheduler that handles "cpu usage rate" works so well. It does seem that fork rate per process would be a reasonable limit approach though... If a rate limit is imposed, then the amount of CPU grabbed by the difficult to account CPU for fork mechanism can be limited. > > The only thing that ever worked reliably were absolute limits. The > internet is so bursty that a machine *must* be able to accept a high > load or overload situation for upwards of 10 or 15 minutes *without* > slapping limits on processes. > If your mechanism is working correctly, the load will be shared fairly. Sum of CPU (or other resources) is still the same. Bad ad hoc sharing mechanisms often cause wierd behavior. Are you speaking of a simple rate limit? Note that the current VM page mgmt isn't based upon a policy of giving out pages to processes when the system thinks it is fair by limits, but more on a sharing scheme. The same approach should be taken by any resource mgmt mechanism. Some mechanisms are easier to deal with than others. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:49:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24085 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:49:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA24078 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:49:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 6771 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 18:49:00 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 18:49:00 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA21723; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:49:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901281849.NAA21723@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901281836.KAA10067@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 28, 99 10:36:04 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:49:00 -0500 (EST) Cc: toasty@home.dragondata.com, dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > :> > : > :I considered a 'maximum children' limit. > : > :How do you prevent a user from breaking cron by executing 100 shell scripts > :that have 'sleep 10000' in them? > : > :Kevin > > By closing his account. > > No, really... by closing his account. If a user abuses his privilage > there isn't much you can do about it no matter what kind of rate limiting > you have. All you can do is try to set the limits such that you can > still login as root and turn off the account. > > About once a month, some user on some BEST machine makes a mistake and > does something that causes a huge load. It is usually NOT intentional. > Sometimes it's a CGI runaway on a heavily-accessed site, sometimes it's > a shell script gone awry. > > We've seen loads of 600. > > The funny thing is that even with a load of 600, people can still login > to the machine and do stuff. This is because either the user or the > subsystem involved has hit a hard limit. > With proper limit schemes, your performance for the non-obnoxious user would even be better. One doesn't limit the "system" to forks/sec, but one limits individual processes (if you want to set a hard limit like that.) One can also do the right thing, and make sure that the fork has appropriate CPU usage accounting, so that the chargeback to the forking process is correct for that kind of activity. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 10:56:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24638 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:56:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA24633 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:56:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 15488 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 18:56:12 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 18:56:12 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA21763; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:56:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901281856.NAA21763@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901281849.NAA21723@y.dyson.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Jan 28, 99 01:49:00 pm" To: dyson@iquest.net Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:56:12 -0500 (EST) Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John S. Dyson said: > Matthew Dillon said: > > :> > > : > > :I considered a 'maximum children' limit. > > : > > :How do you prevent a user from breaking cron by executing 100 shell scripts > > :that have 'sleep 10000' in them? > > : > > :Kevin > > > > By closing his account. > > > > No, really... by closing his account. If a user abuses his privilage > > there isn't much you can do about it no matter what kind of rate limiting > > you have. All you can do is try to set the limits such that you can > > still login as root and turn off the account. > > > > About once a month, some user on some BEST machine makes a mistake and > > does something that causes a huge load. It is usually NOT intentional. > > Sometimes it's a CGI runaway on a heavily-accessed site, sometimes it's > > a shell script gone awry. > > > > We've seen loads of 600. > > > > The funny thing is that even with a load of 600, people can still login > > to the machine and do stuff. This is because either the user or the > > subsystem involved has hit a hard limit. > > > With proper limit schemes, your performance for the non-obnoxious user would > even be better. One doesn't limit the "system" to forks/sec, but one limits > individual processes (if you want to set a hard limit like that.) One can > also do the right thing, and make sure that the fork has appropriate CPU > usage accounting, so that the chargeback to the forking process is correct > for that kind of activity. > One more comment about this posting: Rather than limiting the "system" to forks/sec, but limit it's CPU usage to something sane. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:02:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25365 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:02:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25353 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:02:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id LAA10225; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:02:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:02:01 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901281902.LAA10225@apollo.backplane.com> To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901281845.NAA21716@y.dyson.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Imagine having 100 sendmails fork off instantaneously!!! That would certainly :cause interactive performance to glitch a little, wouldn't it? How big is too :big? Is 1000 sendmails too many, or is 100 or is 10? What are the real limits The sendmail limit on a shell machine might be set to, say, 150. The nominal sendmail load is typically 10-20 sendmail processes running at once. If 150 sendmails are fork instantly, the machine glitches for about 2 seconds. The issue is not the fork, but the memory and disk I/O. The sendmails (as an example) do not start to eat memory and disk I/O until *after* they've forked and sent their HELO. The memory and disk I/O utilization depends on what the client is trying to do with the sendmail. This is something that is simply not predictable. The problem is that when this situation occurs, we *WANT* to give the sendmails nearly the entire machine's resources for at least a little while to try to handle the situation. The hard limit, in this case, is designed such that the machine will not fall on its face if all 150 clients try to do bad things with sendmail. If the overload persists, then something out of the ordinary is going on and sysops intervention is required in any case. But *most* of the time when the hard limit is hit, it is a temporary bursty-load situation that has solved itself by the time the sysop logs in. In this regard, allowing the machine to be temporaily overloaded is good because it allows the burst to get in, hog the machine, and then get out. The machine 'glitches' for a much shorter period of time then it would if you had tried to spread the load out across a longer period of time. The hard limit prevents a cascade failure ( not being able to retire processes quickly enough verses the rate of new incoming connections ), but otherwise allows the machine to run with a high load. Attempting to rate limit that sort of thing results in a longer 'glitch' and more complaints. This is why we switched to using simple absolute limits on subsystems -- because they produced fewer complaints, fewer crashes, and less maintenance. Most of the problems fix themselves. The ones that don't require intervention in anycase. That's for non-dedicated machines -- i.e. a shell/web machine that is also running sendmail. For dedicated machines we operate the hard limits at 90% machine capacity and use it to crop extreme peak cases or handle catch-up situations. i.e. if AOL goes down and then comes back up an hour later, we want our sendmail boxes to run themselves right up to the limit (250 sendmail processes or so) receiving mail because we know if we don't, it will take 8 hours to recover the system back to steady state instead of 1 hour. This is a case where the sysop intervention is simply in monitoring the system over a period of a few hours to make sure it is able catch up. -Matt Matthew Dillon :John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:16:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27378 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:16:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA27354 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:15:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 8228 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 19:15:44 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 19:15:44 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA21826; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:15:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901281915.OAA21826@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901281902.LAA10225@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 28, 99 11:02:01 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:15:34 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > :Imagine having 100 sendmails fork off instantaneously!!! That would certainly > :cause interactive performance to glitch a little, wouldn't it? How big is too > :big? Is 1000 sendmails too many, or is 100 or is 10? What are the real limits > > The sendmail limit on a shell machine might be set to, say, 150. The > nominal sendmail load is typically 10-20 sendmail processes running > at once. > > If 150 sendmails are fork instantly, the machine glitches for about > 2 seconds. > Is that "good enough"? Why isn't a solution that allows for really good sendmail performance, and also almost no glitch superior? I propose that it is possible to produce an almost hands free (easy to administer) mechanism that is quite superior to that. There are "batch" advantages to the same text pages being used over and over again, but the system is going to be in a CPU cache thrash state anyway when forking 150 sendmails. The buffer cache won't necessarily be thrashed, but the occupancy of data in the buffer cache is much longer anyway. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:20:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27724 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:20:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27719 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:20:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id LAA10349; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:20:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:20:36 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901281920.LAA10349@apollo.backplane.com> To: Matthew Dillon Cc: "John S. Dyson" , dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901281845.NAA21716@y.dyson.net> <199901281902.LAA10225@apollo.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Since I'm using sendmail a little too much as an example, I'll use BEST's web server as another example. The web server hard limits the number of simultanious connections. On a relatively loaded machine, say shell5.ba.best.com, the peak utilization is fairly consistent. The monday-noon peak runs at 35 hits/sec and 500 simultanious established connections. We set the hard limit to around 800 simultanious established connections. In this case, the hard limit is mainly designed to handle occassional bursts of CGIs that eat into the number of connections and to give the server enough room to handle one or two users being listed as 'best site of the day' on Yahoo or something like that, something that might happen once a month. The hard limit is also designed to handle runaway CGIs. It is set high enough that it never gets hit under normal operating conditions, but low enough that the server doesn't fall on its face if someone CGI-fork-bombs the server. The sysop can usually get in and fix the problem without having to even restart the web server, which is a big plus. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:29:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29003 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:29:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28995 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:29:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id LAA10380; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:29:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:29:44 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901281929.LAA10380@apollo.backplane.com> To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: <199901281915.OAA21826@y.dyson.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> at once. :> :> If 150 sendmails are fork instantly, the machine glitches for about :> 2 seconds. :> :Is that "good enough"? Why isn't a solution that allows for really good :sendmail performance, and also almost no glitch superior? I propose that :it is possible to produce an almost hands free (easy to administer) mechanism :that is quite superior to that. : :There are "batch" advantages to the same text pages being used over and :over again, but the system is going to be in a CPU cache thrash state anyway :when forking 150 sendmails. The buffer cache won't necessarily be thrashed, :but the occupancy of data in the buffer cache is much longer anyway. : :-- :John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, :dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid :jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. Users notice load. The size of the spike doesn't matter... it's how long it lasts that matters. I.e. I would rather a machine's load tripple or quadruple for a few minutes then see it double for twice as long. I would rather that *even* if I loose a little performance/efficiency. Under normal operating conditions, it is much better to let the sendmail burst run ASAP then it is to drag out the process by slowing down the rate at which you allow them to be forked. Not only are you increasing the latency that the person sending or receiving the email sees, but you are increasing the period of time during which the machine is under a 'heavier then normal' load. Consider a bell curve. The vertical is machine performance/efficiency, the horizontal is resource load. You generally want to set your hard limit such that an overload condition is placed near the peak of the bell curve or even slightly beyond the peak -- i.e. to where the machine is just beginning to loose efficiency. The idea is to allow the burst load to use *all* of the machine's resources without creating a cascade situation where the load degrades the machine to the point where it's contributing to its own demise. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:30:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29118 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:30:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA29111 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA09566 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:15:22 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id UAA00828 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:11:09 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199901281911.UAA00828@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: strange error during de device probe To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:11:09 +0100 (CET) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Every now and then I get: Jan 28 19:05:18 yedi /kernel: de0 rev 34 int a ir q 14 on pci0:9:0 Jan 28 19:05:18 yedi /kernel: de0: can't find phy 0 Jan 28 19:05:18 yedi /kernel: de0: can't read ENET ROM (why=-4) (462601000000000 000000000000000006b00030100c0f03041fb001e00000008 Jan 28 19:05:18 yedi /kernel: de0: 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 Jan 28 19:05:18 yedi /kernel: de0: address unknown during boot. This is 2.2.8-stable, the card is a Kingston PCI 10/100 mbit. Only a power cycle fixes it. Looks like: /* * Make sure there won't be any interrupts or such... */ TULIP_CSR_WRITE(sc, csr_busmode, TULIP_BUSMODE_SWRESET); DELAY(100); /* Wait 10 microseconds (actually 50 PCI cycles but at 33MHz that comes to two microseconds but wait a bit longer anyways) */ if ((retval = tulip_read_macaddr(sc)) < 0) { #if defined(__FreeBSD__) printf(TULIP_PRINTF_FMT, TULIP_PRINTF_ARGS); #endif printf(": can't read ENET ROM (why=%d) (", retval); for (idx = 0; idx < 32; idx++) printf("%02x", sc->tulip_rombuf[idx]); handles this. Could it be that the DELAY is too short? The mainboard is an Asus T2P4 btw. When the card gets probed successfully it works like a charm. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:32:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29319 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:32:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA29308 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:32:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA09530 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:15:13 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id TAA00596; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:45:12 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199901281845.TAA00596@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Device statistics In-Reply-To: <199901280005.RAA54630@panzer.plutotech.com> from "Kenneth D. Merry" at "Jan 27, 99 05:05:54 pm" To: ken@plutotech.com (Kenneth D. Merry) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:45:12 +0100 (CET) Cc: pantzer@ludd.luth.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Kenneth D. Merry wrote... > Mattias Pantzare wrote... > > as getmicrouptim but in userspace? > > Try the kern.boottime sysctl variable. That's what w/uptime uses to figure > out how long the machine has been up. > > You can subtract the current time from the boot time to get the uptime. > > I used getmicrouptime(), since it increases monotonically, unlike the > regular system time. (e.g., you're running xntpd, and it steps the time > back some) > > > Current temperature 99-01-28 00:19:17 -40.7 degrees Celsius (-41.2F) > > Wow, is that temperature accurate? No. It might be too high (according to the newspaper I just read) ;-) Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:32:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29335 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:32:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29309 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:32:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA10229; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:29:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdr10222; Thu Jan 28 19:29:00 1999 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:28:55 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: zhihuizhang cc: hackers Subject: Re: Question concerning timer and rdtsc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, zhihuizhang wrote: > > I am reading 2.2.8 Stable source code and have two questions about the > timer and rdtsc instruction: > > (1) In file clock.c, timer0_state has four possible values: RELEASED, > RELEASE_PENDING, ACQUIRED, and ACQUIRE_PENDING. I can not figure out the > usage of these four states. Moreover, I tried to see how the variable is > changed in the source code. It seems to me that it can only has the value > of RELEASED (0). Who is going to change it? For what purpose? > > (2) rdtsc is used in microtime to get the internal counter. This value is > related to the Mhz of CPU (and the Mhz may be different, say 133, 300, > etc). We must convert it to microseconds, right? In microtime, this is > done by multiplying a variable i586_ctr_multiplier. I tried to figure out > how the variable is initialized, but it does not make sense to me. The > statement that does the initialization is: No it is not necessarily using the CPU counter.. if it does, then the speeds are calibrated during boot (check the bot message) there are other coulters it can use (e.g. timer0) too. > > multiplier = (1000000LL << I586_CTR_MULTIPLIER_SHIFT) / i586_freq; > > and i586_freq is often given as the return value of rdtsc(). > > Thanks for any help. > > -------------------------------------------------- > | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | > | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:32:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29357 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:32:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29347 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:32:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA10119; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:26:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdb10113; Thu Jan 28 19:26:48 1999 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:26:45 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: zhihuizhang cc: hackers Subject: Re: Question concerning timer and rdtsc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You must not actually GET the timer until the passing if a Hz tick in other woords that actual changing of the frequency can only be done when teh Hz tick is passing. so while you are waiting for that to happen, you are in AQUIRE_PENDING state. Once you have sped teh clock into some multiple of the original Hz rate, then when you release it, it must not be slowed down again, until the correct MULTIPLE of hardware ticks have passed. Otherwise the Hz ticks that follow woule be offfset by the amoutn of time remaining in the 'virtual' tick that is being worked out. i.e. from the outside, 'Hz ticks' must continue to be generated at a constant rate regardless of whether the hardware clock has been aquired for a higher (multiple) speed or not. The ticks before and after the higher rate is being use must be allowed to complete, and the last virtual tick must also be allowed to complete sothere are 4 states. RELEASED, ACQUIRE_PENDING, ACQUIRED, RELEASE_PENDING. julian On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, zhihuizhang wrote: > > I am reading 2.2.8 Stable source code and have two questions about the > timer and rdtsc instruction: > > (1) In file clock.c, timer0_state has four possible values: RELEASED, > RELEASE_PENDING, ACQUIRED, and ACQUIRE_PENDING. I can not figure out the > usage of these four states. Moreover, I tried to see how the variable is > changed in the source code. It seems to me that it can only has the value > of RELEASED (0). Who is going to change it? For what purpose? > > (2) rdtsc is used in microtime to get the internal counter. This value is > related to the Mhz of CPU (and the Mhz may be different, say 133, 300, > etc). We must convert it to microseconds, right? In microtime, this is > done by multiplying a variable i586_ctr_multiplier. I tried to figure out > how the variable is initialized, but it does not make sense to me. The > statement that does the initialization is: > > multiplier = (1000000LL << I586_CTR_MULTIPLIER_SHIFT) / i586_freq; > > and i586_freq is often given as the return value of rdtsc(). > > Thanks for any help. > > -------------------------------------------------- > | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | > | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:32:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29407 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:32:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29401; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:32:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA10357; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:31:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdC10336; Thu Jan 28 19:30:54 1999 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:30:45 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis cc: Satoshi Asami , stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates on / In-Reply-To: <199901281655.OAA17958@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG kirk has convinsing arguments against it and "He's the man" On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > CC: to hackers, as it may be better discussed there. > > #define quoting(Satoshi Asami) > // Today I tried to remotely upgrade a machine set up by someone else. > // Unfortunately softupdates was set in / and every make installworld > // fails in /sbin as it runs out of space. > // > // I'd dare not take down the machine in the middle of installworld (even > // though it's only upgrading from 3.0-current of about 3 weeks ago -- > // I've seen weird things happen). I ended up writing a script doing a > // "cd $dir; make install; sleep 10" in /usr/src/sbin and it's finally > // chugging along. > // > // Is there some other way out of this? Also, a caution to others -- do > // not set softupdates on /, you can get into a real mess. > > Is there a strong reason for softupdates be a tunefs option, instead of > a mount option ? This could be easily solved by a > > mount -u -o async / > make install > mount -u -o softdep / > > Jonny > > -- > Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student > jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro > "This .sig is not meant to be politically correct." > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:42:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00690 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:42:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00679 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:42:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA10555; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:34:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdj10547; Thu Jan 28 19:34:40 1999 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:34:33 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: "Lee, il-do" cc: terry , arg , hackers , dave Subject: Re: Writing a device driver! In-Reply-To: <000f01be4ac6$dfb7d760$4903fdcb@soongsil.ac.kr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG why do you wnat a block device interface? we are talking about removing block devices because they have no function extra. block read and write are done in the "strategy" function (silly name). On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Lee, il-do wrote: > I will make 1394 device driver. > > Now, I think about device type if network device or block device. > And about architecture of device. > > How about your opinion? > > 1394 device use PCI bus. But I can't get any information about it. > Can you give me any information? > > Entry point of my device driver different to cdevse[] and bdevsw[]. > In example, it include read_block and write_block ... > what can I apply this entry point to device structure? > > When I have any other question, I will remail. I will wait your reply... > > regards. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:43:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00894 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:43:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00881 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:43:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) id MAA75529; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:43:07 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199901281943.MAA75529@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Device statistics In-Reply-To: <199901280843.JAA10784@zed.ludd.luth.se> from Mattias Pantzare at "Jan 28, 99 09:43:01 am" To: pantzer@ludd.luth.se (Mattias Pantzare) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:43:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mattias Pantzare wrote... > > Mattias Pantzare wrote... > > > I am trying to teach iostat to print the percent of time the disk is busy > > > (transactions in progress), for that I use the information in struct devstat. > > > > > > The problem is that start_time is recorded using getmicrouptime. If I replace > > > that with getmicrotime I can do my magic. > > > > > > Is there a function that I missed that can get the same time > > > as getmicrouptim but in userspace? > > > > Try the kern.boottime sysctl variable. That's what w/uptime uses to figure > > out how long the machine has been up. > > > > You can subtract the current time from the boot time to get the uptime. > > > > I used getmicrouptime(), since it increases monotonically, unlike the > > regular system time. (e.g., you're running xntpd, and it steps the time > > back some) > > That means that I can't use the current time to subtreact from boot time, as > that won't give the same time... > > If getmicrouptime was recorded in devstat when the sample is taken that would > work to (even better). If you look at last_comp_time, that's the time of the most recent transaction completion, as reported by getmicrouptime(). > > > > > Current temperature 99-01-28 00:19:17 -40.7 degrees Celsius (-41.2F) > > > > Wow, is that temperature accurate? > > Yes. Some places have almost -50 C Very impressive. :) Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:51:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:51:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02417; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:51:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26420; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:51:36 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199901281951.RAA26420@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: softupdates on / In-Reply-To: from Julian Elischer at "Jan 28, 1999 11:30:45 am" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:51:36 -0200 (EDT) Cc: jonny@jonny.eng.br, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Julian Elischer) // On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: // > Is there a strong reason for softupdates be a tunefs option, instead of // > a mount option ? This could be easily solved by a // // kirk has convinsing arguments against it and "He's the man" ^^^^^^^^^ I got your point, but can you list these arguments ? If it's only "he wants it this way, god only knows why", it's allright, but if there's a technical reason, I'd like to know. Thanks in advance, Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro "This .sig is not meant to be politically correct." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:52:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02613 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:52:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA02608 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:52:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 20318 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 19:52:44 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 19:52:44 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA21912; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:52:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901281952.OAA21912@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901281920.LAA10349@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 28, 99 11:20:36 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:52:41 -0500 (EST) Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > Since I'm using sendmail a little too much as an example, I'll use BEST's > web server as another example. > > The web server hard limits the number of simultanious connections. On > a relatively loaded machine, say shell5.ba.best.com, the peak utilization > is fairly consistent. The monday-noon peak runs at 35 hits/sec and > 500 simultanious established connections. > > We set the hard limit to around 800 simultanious established connections. > In this case, it appears that you have established a value by measuring it. Then you have set a threshold a little higher than the maximum expected. In this case, you can effectively apply a "hard" limit. The situation that I have been thinking of are the indeterminate or unforseeable circumstances where applications produce a varying load (perhaps timeshared or perhaps workstation.) There are cases where a properly behaved application will perhaps page or somesuch. You cannot apriori determine these circumstances, but you can know that you have a limited amount of I/O bandwidth for paging. Given you don't want a single process to terribly hog the system, and you really don't know how many processes or how much memory will need to be paged (due to the varying load), then a way of estimating the system capability and apportion it so that the "hog" still runs, but the rest of the applications run nicely is advantageous. There are indeed cases where it is advantageous from a batch standpoint to run a single process type in a burst, but there are also tradeoffs as to other service types. IMO, it seems that shell type operations (interactive shells, editors, etc) are a form of soft realtime. By limiting the amount (in a relative sense) of time that a "batch" process takes from a CPU, the realtime processes still run nicely. In a normal scheduling situation, one would not always want to impose the limit, because otherwise the resource might be wasted if not used. Most of the real limits are rates (except for memory), and of course, by setting static occupancy (or connection) limits, certain rate limits will be effective. I think that a real challenge for OS developers is to produce a system that will tune itself without magic parameters. Of course, one cannot tune without knowing what the criteria are -- it doesn't make any difference if it is the OS that applies the policy, or a sysop that applies the policy. One has to define the policy first. In timesharing, there are both realtime and batch goals. The current scheduler works really well for CPU apportionment in alot of applications. One problem current is that CPU is about the only thing scheduled, but other things can be effectively scheduled and shared, without untoward impact. Setting arbitrary vm limits (for example) by the OS developers is alot like setting a CPU limit for a scheduler. Imagine a scheduler that is tuned to support a CPU the speed of a 386. Then, when you upgrade to a P5 or P6, you still get the performance of a 386, until you retune the system :-). It is absurd, because CPU schedulers are pretty well developed. However, CPU isn't the limiting resource much anymore, and other things are a limiting resource (net bandwidth, disk bandwidth/latency, etc.) Rather than visiting the limits one-by-one, a general scheduling/fairness mechanism seems in order. By default, it could work just like it does today, but other fairness behaviors could be provided, and automatically scaled. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 11:55:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02872 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:55:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02828 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:54:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se) Received: from sister.ludd.luth.se (pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA05490; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:54:39 +0100 Message-Id: <199901281954.UAA05490@zed.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Kenneth D. Merry" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device statistics In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:43:07 MST." <199901281943.MAA75529@panzer.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:54:38 +0100 From: Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > That means that I can't use the current time to subtreact from boot time, as > > that won't give the same time... > > > > If getmicrouptime was recorded in devstat when the sample is taken that > > would work to (even better). > > If you look at last_comp_time, that's the time of the most recent > transaction completion, as reported by getmicrouptime(). That time is not helping me. To calculate the percent of busy time I have to account for the ongoing transaction from start_time to the time that the sample was taken. The time of the most recent transaction is only relevant if it happend when I took my sample. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 12:02:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04134 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:02:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04116 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:02:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) id NAA75707; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:02:14 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199901282002.NAA75707@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Device statistics In-Reply-To: <199901281954.UAA05490@zed.ludd.luth.se> from Mattias Pantzare at "Jan 28, 99 08:54:38 pm" To: pantzer@ludd.luth.se (Mattias Pantzare) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:02:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mattias Pantzare wrote... > > > > That means that I can't use the current time to subtreact from boot time, as > > > that won't give the same time... > > > > > > If getmicrouptime was recorded in devstat when the sample is taken that > > > would work to (even better). > > > > If you look at last_comp_time, that's the time of the most recent > > transaction completion, as reported by getmicrouptime(). > > That time is not helping me. To calculate the percent of busy time I have to > account for the ongoing transaction from start_time to the time that the > sample was taken. The time of the most recent transaction is only relevant if > it happend when I took my sample. What's wrong with just looking at the busy_time value that the kernel keeps track of? If you really want an accurate version of the current system uptime, you should probably talk to Poul-Henning about it. Providing the current uptime is more of a generic service, and not something that would "fit" into devstat.. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 12:15:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06374 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:15:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pop.uniserve.com (pop.uniserve.com [204.244.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA06350; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:15:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@uniserve.com) Received: from shell.uniserve.ca [204.244.186.218] by pop.uniserve.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #4) id 105xpw-0001x8-00; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:14:48 -0800 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:14:46 -0800 (PST) From: Tom X-Sender: tom@shell.uniserve.ca To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis cc: Julian Elischer , asami@cs.berkeley.edu, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates on / In-Reply-To: <199901281951.RAA26420@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > #define quoting(Julian Elischer) > // On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > // > Is there a strong reason for softupdates be a tunefs option, instead of > // > a mount option ? This could be easily solved by a > // > // kirk has convinsing arguments against it and "He's the man" > ^^^^^^^^^ > > I got your point, but can you list these arguments ? If it's only "he > wants it this way, god only knows why", it's allright, but if there's > a technical reason, I'd like to know. > > Thanks in advance, The arguements are in the archives. And yes they do make very good sense. > Jonny > > -- > Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student > jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro > "This .sig is not meant to be politically correct." Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 12:17:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06744 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:17:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from chen.ml.org (luoqi.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06736 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:17:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luoqi@chen.ml.org) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by chen.ml.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA42274 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:17:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:17:52 -0500 (EST) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199901282017.PAA42274@chen.ml.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: VCD support for ATAPI cd driver Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have been playing with linuxthreads on SMP machine recently. One of the application I tested was mpeg video play mtv from mpegtv.com. As a by-product, I modified the atapi cd driver to allow it to read any type of data including vcd tracks and I also added some linux cdrom ioctl emulations so mtv could play vcds directly. I figured some of you may also find them useful. The patches can be found at http://www.frebsd.org/~luoqi -lq To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 12:19:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07051 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:19:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07040 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:19:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se) Received: from sister.ludd.luth.se (pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA06412; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:19:38 +0100 Message-Id: <199901282019.VAA06412@zed.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Kenneth D. Merry" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device statistics In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:02:14 MST." <199901282002.NAA75707@panzer.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:19:37 +0100 From: Mattias Pantzare Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA07045 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What's wrong with just looking at the busy_time value that the kernel keeps > track of? That is only updated when busy_count is 0, it may never get uppdated if you put a high load on the disks (that is realy easy to do...). If you take samples every second and the disk get realy bussy 0.5 seconds after the first sample you will miss half the time that the disk is in use. 0% instead of the real value 50%. You will find that this is the case realy fast if you try to use busy_time. So, you have to look at busy_time, busy_coun, start_time and the sample time to do anyting good of busy_time. > If you really want an accurate version of the current system uptime, you > should probably talk to Poul-Henning about it. Providing the current > uptime is more of a generic service, and not something that would "fit" > into devstat.. Well, not realy. :-) The time that is interesting is when the sample is taken, not when my program get a chance to get the current system uptime. But a generic service may be good enough. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 12:20:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07327 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:20:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07283 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:20:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA08818; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:20:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma008811; Thu, 28 Jan 99 12:19:41 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA03434; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:19:41 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901282019.MAA03434@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: rules to allocate buffers in device drivers In-Reply-To: <199901281349.OAA24119@chouette.inria.fr> from Emmanuel Duros at "Jan 28, 99 02:49:03 pm" To: Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr (Emmanuel Duros) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:19:41 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Emmanuel Duros writes: > I am currently writing a network device driver for FreeBSD and it is > still unclear to me how to allocate memory. > > It seems that a common way of doing it is something like: > > u_char *buffer; > buffer = malloc( SIZE, M_DEVBUF, M_NOWAIT); Yes this works.. you also have to make sure buffer != NULL after calling malloc, as it can be with M_NOWAIT. M_DEVBUF is the type. You must free it with the same type argument. M_NOWAIT or M_WAITOK are the latter choices. Don't use M_WAITOK from within an interrupt context, because it can put you to sleep. Also, you should use the MALLOC() and FREE() macros in instead. > However I have not seen something like this in a device driver: > > u_char buffer[SIZE]; > > Is there a particular reason for not allocating buffers statically ? Generally for two reasons: - It's considered bad practice to allocate a static buffer (that *always* takes up memory) if it *might not* get used (ie, your device probe fails). - Drivers typically support multiple instances of the device, in which case you don't know how much memory you need until runtime. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 13:03:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15201 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:03:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15188 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:03:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from [158.152.46.40] (helo=ragnet.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 105ybL-0004Nc-00; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:03:48 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 105wXQ-0001ry-00; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:51:36 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199901281817.KAA09891@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:51:36 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, dyson@iquest.net, Kevin Day Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Jan-99 Matthew Dillon wrote: > > I think a rate limited cron is a good solution, but I would also ( if you > haven't already ) supply a max-parallel-jobs option. Increasing the > fork rate works to a degree, but you also have to make sure that cron > (A) cannot kill the machine, and (B) cannot fall into a fork cascade > failure by overloading the machine so much that the jobs can't be > retired faster then new jobs are queued. > > So, for example, you might have a feedback parameter X but you should > also have an absolute limit Y, which you set relatively high. [snipped example] > In effect, your feedback parameter solves your NFS burstiness problem > under 'normal' load conditions and the absolute limit handles the more > severe noon & midnight cases. > > -Matt Speaking as an electronic engineer who uses feedback in circuits all the time: One thing to watch out for when you have rate-feedback and a limiter is essentially designing a unstable or chaotic system. The limit acts as a non-linearity in the system feedback function which is usually a bad thing. Non-linearities will at best open the feedback loop and at worst cause it to thrash around like a mad thing. Similarly, if you have too many feedback loops (i.e. rate and number) the feedback can start to oscillate... These effects may not be visible because the time constants of the feedback systems are likely to be longer than the process creation rate. All of these are testable but it is easy to generate an unstable system by changing time constants. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 13:04:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15221 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:04:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15200 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:03:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from [158.152.46.40] (helo=ragnet.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 105ybO-00009L-00; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:03:51 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 105wOX-0001rq-00; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:42:25 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199901281827.KAA10025@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:42:25 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Jan-99 Matthew Dillon wrote: > >:Matthew Dillon wrote: >:> >:> :How do its features compare with CVSup? >:> >:> cvsup and cpdup are two totally different programs. cvsup manages >:> CVS trees. cpdup is a templating/mirroring tool. >: >:Your characterization of CVSup isn't accurate. CVSup is a fully >:general mirroring tool... [snip] >:John > > Ah, in that case cpdup and cvsup are similar. cvsup is probably > more powerful, being a stream-oriented protocol and thus not > requiring NFS. I find cpdup extremely easy to use, though... > almost like cp. cvsup is probably a bit more involved from a > configuration standpoint. > > -Matt CVSup is fairly easy to set. Over the weekend I decided that I had had enough of CVSup the CVS tree in 5 mins over my 33k modem but waiting 45mins to cvs update /usr/src. So I set up cvsupd. Took about 30mins, including download time, to have the first locally run cvsup. Thanks John Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 13:07:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16006 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:07:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16001 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:07:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA11042; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:07:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:07:08 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901282107.NAA11042@apollo.backplane.com> To: Duncan Barclay Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, dyson@iquest.net, Kevin Day Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Speaking as an electronic engineer who uses feedback in circuits all the :time: : :One thing to watch out for when you have rate-feedback and a limiter is :essentially designing a unstable or chaotic system. The limit acts as a :non-linearity in the system feedback function which is usually a bad thing. :Non-linearities will at best open the feedback loop and at worst cause it to :thrash around like a mad thing. Similarly, if you have too many feedback loops :(i.e. rate and number) the feedback can start to oscillate... : :These effects may not be visible because the time constants of the feedback :systems are likely to be longer than the process creation rate. : :All of these are testable but it is easy to generate an unstable system by :changing time constants. : :Duncan Think of it as the current-sense (aka limiting) resistor in a switching power supply. -Matt :--- :________________________________________________________________________ :Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, :dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. :________________________________________________________________________ : Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 13:27:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19434 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:27:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19421 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:27:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from [158.152.46.40] (helo=ragnet.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 105yxk-0002lK-00; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:26:57 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 105yx6-0003Fy-00; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:26:16 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199901282107.NAA11042@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:26:16 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? Cc: dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Jan-99 Matthew Dillon wrote: >:Speaking as an electronic engineer who uses feedback in circuits all the >:time: >: >:One thing to watch out for when you have rate-feedback and a limiter is >:essentially designing a unstable or chaotic system. The limit acts as a >:non-linearity in the system feedback function which is usually a bad thing. >:Non-linearities will at best open the feedback loop and at worst cause it to >:thrash around like a mad thing. Similarly, if you have too many feedback >:loops >:(i.e. rate and number) the feedback can start to oscillate... >: >:These effects may not be visible because the time constants of the feedback >:systems are likely to be longer than the process creation rate. >: >:All of these are testable but it is easy to generate an unstable system by >:changing time constants. >: >:Duncan > > Think of it as the current-sense (aka limiting) resistor in a switching > power supply. > > -Matt One but the resistor is a linear element in the power supply (V=IR), if there is a trip sensing the V however things can go loopy. A couple of years back the West coast power grid under went a chatoic episode which took out most of it. Have a look at Chua's diode, a simple non-linear resistor: I = Vin / R1 for -x <= V <= x = Vin / R2 for V > +- x when put in a resonant circuit (i.e. a second order feedback loop with the poles too close together) chaotic oscillations can occur. It appeared to me that John, was tlaking about controlling the fork rate in a loop and you wanted to limit the number of processes (I may have got this wrong). This system would have two feedback loops, contain two poles (the integral of the fork rate and the filter constant) and a non-linearity. Any feedback system is potentially unstable, those with two poles are very easy to get hooting and non-linearities will break the control. I'm more of an analogue/continious time man and the fork rate is sampled/discrete time. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 13:57:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22918 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:57:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22910 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:57:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA38653; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:04:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:04:06 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Emmanuel Duros cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: rules to allocate buffers in device drivers In-Reply-To: <199901281349.OAA24119@chouette.inria.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Emmanuel Duros wrote: > > Hi, > > I am currently writing a network device driver for FreeBSD and it is > still unclear to me how to allocate memory. > > It seems that a common way of doing it is something like: > > u_char *buffer; > buffer = malloc( SIZE, M_DEVBUF, M_NOWAIT); > > However I have not seen something like this in a device driver: > > u_char buffer[SIZE]; > > Is there a particular reason for not allocating buffers statically ? > Pointing out files and line numbers in the code helps a lot, however as i understand it, the reason buffers aren't like: u_char buffer[SIZE]; is because there is a very limited intrupt stack (MSmith told me 16k?) if you exhaust that, it's not a very good thing. using malloc with NOwait set allows you to hopefully retry a transfer at a different time. however sometimes you will see something like: u_char stkbuffer[20]; u_char *buf; buf = ( nbytes <= 20 ) ? &(stkbuffer[0]) : (u_char*) malloc(...); the reason the above is done is to avoid a call to malloc if the amount of buffer space is usually going to be small and could be fit on the stack. > I have not found anything related to how to allocate memory in kernel > code (definitions of malloc parameters, etc.). Do you have any pointer > on that ? man 9 malloc Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 4.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 14:03:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23846 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:03:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23841 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:03:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA11295; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:03:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:03:23 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901282203.OAA11295@apollo.backplane.com> To: Duncan Barclay Cc: dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :>:changing time constants. :>: :>:Duncan :> :> Think of it as the current-sense (aka limiting) resistor in a switching :> power supply. :> :> -Matt : :One but the resistor is a linear element in the power supply (V=IR), if there :is a trip sensing the V however things can go loopy. A couple of years back the :West coast power grid under went a chatoic episode which took out most of it. :Have a look at Chua's diode, a simple non-linear resistor: : I = Vin / R1 for -x <= V <= x : = Vin / R2 for V > +- x :when put in a resonant circuit (i.e. a second order feedback loop with the :poles too close together) chaotic oscillations can occur. Now this is getting interesting. I was thinking of the current limiting resistor going between pins 7 and 8 of the trusty LM3578A ( with pin 7 tied to pin 6 ). Basically, the oscillator is running at an order of magnitude higher frequency then any possible feedback because there is a huge capacitor sitting on the output stage of the regulator. So the worst you'll see from hitting the current limit is a little jitter ( < 0.1% ) on the output, assuming no further regulation. The case that matters here is, of course, the case where one actually runs into the limit. The power curve basically goes up linearly until it hits the limit, then flattens out --- but doesn't go down much ( P=IV, so when it hits the current limit V will start to go down as I goes up in the power output stage. The current limit is associated with the power input to the regulator, of course, and since the voltage input is steady the current limit is effectively a power limit ). The jitter due to the limiting function of actually shutting down the oscillator and bringing it back up is too small to worry about. The rate limiting in this paradigm is dealing with the situation where, say, you have 8 hard drives that eat 1.5A each on spinup and rather then turn them on all at once you stagger-start them. However, *I* prefer turning them on all at once, which maxes the power supply at its max power output for a short period of time. In the stagger-start case, the power supply is NOT maxed out. i.e. you aren't utilizing 100% of your resources. Assuming a direct transfer of power to momemtum, my way will get all the drives spun up more quickly while the staggered start case will get a few drives spun up every MORE quickly, but the rest of the drives quite a bit LESS quickly. This is why I prefer allowing bursts, like allowing a lot of sendmails to fork at once rather then rate limit them. I don't mind hitting the current-limit ( max power output of the power supply ). My hard limit would be the 'number of drives' in the system. Now, the more quickly verses less quickly case is classic scheduling theory. You have N people each with job J(n). Each job takes T(n) time ( different for each job). How do you schedule the jobs such that you get the fewest complaints? This certainly applies to what John is talking about. -Matt Matthew Dillon :It appeared to me that John, was tlaking about controlling the fork :rate in a loop and you wanted to limit the number of processes (I may have got :this wrong). This system would have two feedback loops, contain two poles :(the integral of the fork rate and the filter constant) and a non-linearity. Any :feedback system is potentially unstable, those with two poles are very easy to :get hooting and non-linearities will break the control. : :I'm more of an analogue/continious time man and the fork rate :is sampled/discrete time. : :Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 14:04:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22967 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:58:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22911 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:57:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA39194; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:56:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199901282156.WAA39194@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: VCD support for ATAPI cd driver In-Reply-To: <199901282017.PAA42274@chen.ml.org> from Luoqi Chen at "Jan 28, 1999 3:17:52 pm" To: luoqi@chen.ml.org (Luoqi Chen) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:56:52 +0100 (CET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Luoqi Chen wrote: > I have been playing with linuxthreads on SMP machine recently. One of > the application I tested was mpeg video play mtv from mpegtv.com. As > a by-product, I modified the atapi cd driver to allow it to read any type > of data including vcd tracks and I also added some linux cdrom ioctl > emulations so mtv could play vcds directly. I figured some of you may > also find them useful. The patches can be found at > http://www.frebsd.org/~luoqi I'll take a close look at those :) -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 15:13:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04197 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:13:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04176; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:13:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id PAA11607; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:13:23 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901282313.PAA11607@apollo.backplane.com> To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Cc: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer), jonny@jonny.eng.br, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates on / References: <199901281951.RAA26420@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :// :// kirk has convinsing arguments against it and "He's the man" : ^^^^^^^^^ : :I got your point, but can you list these arguments ? If it's only "he :wants it this way, god only knows why", it's allright, but if there's :a technical reason, I'd like to know. : :Thanks in advance, : : Jonny Well, I can think of one right off the bat -- Kirk's been wanting to make fsck more and more softupdates-aware. This means that softupates really should be a filesystem flag and not a mount option. To avoid mistakes. I think the eventual goal is to be able to mount a softupdates partition either immediately or with only minimal cleanup and then finish cleaning it up in the background, live. -Matt Matthew Dillon :-- :Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student :jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro :"This .sig is not meant to be politically correct." : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 15:21:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05445 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:21:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05437 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from [158.152.46.40] (helo=ragnet.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 1060k1-0006N3-00; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:20:53 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 1060jF-00049N-00; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:20:05 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199901282203.OAA11295@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:20:05 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dyson@iquest.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Jan-99 Matthew Dillon wrote: > >:>:changing time constants. >:>: >:>:Duncan >:> >:> Think of it as the current-sense (aka limiting) resistor in a switching >:> power supply. >:> >:> -Matt >: >:One but the resistor is a linear element in the power supply (V=IR), if there >:is a trip sensing the V however things can go loopy. A couple of years back >:the >:West coast power grid under went a chatoic episode which took out most of it. >:Have a look at Chua's diode, a simple non-linear resistor: >: I = Vin / R1 for -x <= V <= x >: = Vin / R2 for V > +- x >:when put in a resonant circuit (i.e. a second order feedback loop with the >:poles too close together) chaotic oscillations can occur. > > Now this is getting interesting. I was thinking of the current limiting > resistor going between pins 7 and 8 of the trusty LM3578A ( with pin 7 > tied to pin 6 ). Basically, the oscillator is running at an order of > magnitude higher frequency then any possible feedback because there is > a huge capacitor sitting on the output stage of the regulator. So the > worst you'll see from hitting the current limit is a little jitter > ( < 0.1% ) on the output, assuming no further regulation. The switcher is using the oscillator in the regualtor as a control element, the big capacitor puts a pole (integrator) into the feedback loop to get some filtering. The regualtor modulates the oscillator in some way (usually pulse width) to vary the ammount of charge dumped into the loop filter. A switching regulator is similar in someways to a phase locked loop in this respect. So changes in the oscillator will be seen by the feedback loop, not necessarily as a frequency, but as a change in the output voltage. > The case that matters here is, of course, the case where one actually > runs into the limit. The power curve basically goes up linearly until > it hits the limit, then flattens out --- but doesn't go down much ( P=IV, > so when it hits the current limit V will start to go down as I goes up > in the power output stage. The current limit is associated with the > power input to the regulator, of course, and since the voltage input is > steady the current limit is effectively a power limit ). > The jitter due to the limiting function of actually shutting down the > oscillator and bringing it back up is too small to worry about. In many voltage regulators the shutdown action is to go into a "foldback" mode and not just constant current mode (which you describe). When this happens the regulator deliberately reduces the output voltage to limit the output current, a little ascii art: volts | | | b-------c | / | / | / | / | / |/ -a----d------- amps Segment a to b is just the regulator drop out, b to c is normal operation up to the current limit. c to d happens when Iout > Imax and the regulator "crowbars" the output (usually quickly). d to b happens when it tries to recover, usually gently. In many other PLL applications (e.g. RF synthesisers) the foldback case isn't handled well. Recently we used an IC in a GSM handset design where at turn on the input frequency to the PLL to go above its limit (point c if we replace amps with frequency). Unfortuantely this caused the flip flops in the divider to go meta-stable and eventually stick requiring a complete power reset much :-((( > The rate limiting in this paradigm is dealing with the situation where, > say, you have 8 hard drives that eat 1.5A each on spinup and rather then > turn them on all at once you stagger-start them. However, *I* prefer > turning them on all at once, which maxes the power supply at its max > power output for a short period of time. In the stagger-start case, > the power supply is NOT maxed out. i.e. you aren't utilizing 100% of > your resources. > > Assuming a direct transfer of power to momemtum, my way will get all > the drives spun up more quickly while the staggered start case will > get a few drives spun up every MORE quickly, but the rest of the drives > quite a bit LESS quickly. Hmmm, not sure of this given the foldback functionality but true for current limiting, I'm not very good with motors. Your way will stress the output transistor/GTO of the PSU though and decrease long term reliablity (increased power dissipation -> hotter -> Arnhaus relationship -> messy solid state physics stuff ;-)). > This is why I prefer allowing bursts, like allowing a lot of sendmails > to fork at once rather then rate limit them. I don't mind hitting > the current-limit ( max power output of the power supply ). My hard > limit would be the 'number of drives' in the system. Going back to launching multiple processes then, do we have to consider the "second" order effects of the memory heirarchy? I.e. the load on the CPU and RAM is managable because essentially there is no difference in random access time. However, when hitting secondary storage does thrashing the disk heads etc. adversly affect your "optimisation"? > Now, the more quickly verses less quickly case is classic scheduling > theory. You have N people each with job J(n). Each job takes T(n) > time ( different for each job). How do you schedule the jobs such > that you get the fewest complaints? This certainly applies to what > John is talking about. I think I'm saying that T(n) may be non-deterministic or its distribution changes when we get into limiting conditions. Continuing my disk drive thrashing theme, does the response from a heavily loaded disk sub-system change between normal and high load? I would say it will. High load could be defined as when the abscence of the disk read caches makes no (little) difference to the data returned from the disk. In this case the T(n) distribution has changed drastically from the normal case where the cache is effective. A route to manage this sort of change is to not have a central rate limiting policy but an adaptive one baseed on information from the various sub-systems. For example if the secondary storage is saying that through put is dropping but demand is increasing and the process creation unit is saying more more more, a cause and effect relationship is clear. Thus the system can slow the fork rate a bit. If the cache hit rate returns (we've managed to load all of sendmail's stuff into caches) the fork rate can be increased again. I can't decide whether I agree with your policy (load it up for a short period) or not. I can see for some operations (100 sendmails at once) this will work fine, but I'm not sure it works for say 100 different cron jobs every 10 minutes. However, not running a large network I don't know which case is more usual/important/intersting. > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 16:07:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14288 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:07:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14269 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:07:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) id RAA77048; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:07:04 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199901290007.RAA77048@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Device statistics In-Reply-To: <199901282019.VAA06412@zed.ludd.luth.se> from Mattias Pantzare at "Jan 28, 99 09:19:37 pm" To: pantzer@ludd.luth.se (Mattias Pantzare) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:07:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mattias Pantzare wrote... > > > What's wrong with just looking at the busy_time value that the kernel keeps > > track of? > > That is only updated when busy_count is 0, it may never get uppdated if you put > a high load on the disks (that is realy easy to do...). > > If you take samples every second and the disk get realy bussy 0.5 seconds > after the first sample you will miss half the time that the disk is in use. 0% > instead of the real value 50%. > > You will find that this is the case realy fast if you try to use busy_time. > > So, you have to look at busy_time, busy_coun, start_time and the sample time > to do anyting good of busy_time. True enough. Really, though, I'm not convinced that busy time is a very useful measurement. On any sufficiently busy disk, as you have pointed out, there will almost always be transactions outstanding. > > If you really want an accurate version of the current system uptime, you > > should probably talk to Poul-Henning about it. Providing the current > > uptime is more of a generic service, and not something that would "fit" > > into devstat.. > > Well, not realy. :-) The time that is interesting is when the sample is taken, > not when my program get a chance to get the current system uptime. But a > generic service may be good enough. I think it would be better to have a generic service, if that is what you need. Who knows, there may already be some facility to do it that I don't know about. :) Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 16:17:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15890 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:17:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15884 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:17:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA05901 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:17:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA09995 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05090 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:01:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.1/8.6.9) id TAA03858 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:18:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:18:54 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199901290018.TAA03858@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: a.out compatibility "going away?" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just curious - I've seen references that indicate running an a.out program will eventually be removed from the system. Would it be wise to totally remove the ability to run old a.out binaries? Especially since we've been keeping up with compatibility since version 2.1.x? - Just curious - - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 16:28:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17160 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:28:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA17125 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:27:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 29685 invoked from network); 29 Jan 1999 00:26:19 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 1999 00:26:19 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA22366; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:26:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901290026.TAA22366@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901281929.LAA10380@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jan 28, 99 11:29:44 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:26:14 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > :> at once. > :> > :> If 150 sendmails are fork instantly, the machine glitches for about > :> 2 seconds. > :> > :Is that "good enough"? Why isn't a solution that allows for really good > :sendmail performance, and also almost no glitch superior? I propose that > :it is possible to produce an almost hands free (easy to administer) mechanism > :that is quite superior to that. > : > :There are "batch" advantages to the same text pages being used over and > :over again, but the system is going to be in a CPU cache thrash state anyway > :when forking 150 sendmails. The buffer cache won't necessarily be thrashed, > :but the occupancy of data in the buffer cache is much longer anyway. > : > :-- > :John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, > :dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid > :jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. > > Users notice load. The size of the spike doesn't matter... it's how > long it lasts that matters. I.e. I would rather a machine's load tripple > or quadruple for a few minutes then see it double for twice as long. > I would rather that *even* if I loose a little performance/efficiency. > Isn't it more the lack of responsiveness that matters? I mean, it is the missing shell prompt, more than the long term amount of CPU that they can get, right? If the scheduler is good, the users will notice load only as a longer term artifact, but short term, the realtime response is still snappy. By providing a sluggish behavior for trivial operations, there is obviously a bias against them, since the trivial operations often don't even use up their quantum, and many of those operations take much less time to run, than the delay imposed due to system loading conditions. Quantifying load as being "double" depends on the measurement method. Note that "loadaverage" as a load isn't very useful for short term responsiveness. By specifying the goals for the scheduler (end user requirements), it is quite possible to maintain a responsive shell, while a system is very heavily loaded in the traditional loadaverage sense. It is also possible to have a heavily loaded system (short term), while the system appears to be lightly loaded in a loadaverage sense. The above issues are true for the CPU scheduler, but there are such issues for other items (like paging rates or memory) also. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 16:54:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20433 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:54:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20427 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:54:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01181; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:50:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901290050.QAA01181@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Emmanuel Duros cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: rules to allocate buffers in device drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:49:03 +0100." <199901281349.OAA24119@chouette.inria.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:50:06 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am currently writing a network device driver for FreeBSD and it is > still unclear to me how to allocate memory. > > It seems that a common way of doing it is something like: > > u_char *buffer; > buffer = malloc( SIZE, M_DEVBUF, M_NOWAIT); Correct. > However I have not seen something like this in a device driver: > > u_char buffer[SIZE]; > > Is there a particular reason for not allocating buffers statically ? Several reasons. The simplest is that device drivers typically manage more than one instance of a device, so buffers and the like are per-instance, not per-driver. You only get one copy of a static buffer. > I have not found anything related to how to allocate memory in kernel > code (definitions of malloc parameters, etc.). Do you have any pointer > on that ? The malloc(9) manpage covers this. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 16:54:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20455 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:54:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20448 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:54:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA08329 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:53:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01155; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:48:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901290048.QAA01155@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Thomas David Rivers cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: a.out compatibility "going away?" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:18:54 EST." <199901290018.TAA03858@lakes.dignus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:48:20 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Just curious - I've seen references that indicate running an a.out > program will eventually be removed from the system. I think you may be mistaking this. > Would it be wise to totally remove the ability to run old a.out binaries? > Especially since we've been keeping up with compatibility since version > 2.1.x? The ability to run a.out binaries is not likely to go away in a hurry. It's more likely that a.out support will be distributed as an add-on component. What is likely to go away is support for *building*the*system* in a.out format. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 17:02:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21604 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:02:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21596; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:02:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23026; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:59:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdZ23020; Fri Jan 29 00:59:35 1999 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:59:32 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Matthew Dillon cc: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis , asami@cs.berkeley.edu, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates on / In-Reply-To: <199901282313.PAA11607@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The eventual aim is to never use NON softupdates mode.. The system is not supposed to bonb with "filesystem full" when there are uncommitted delete operations on the softupdates queues. if it does, then there is a bug. It's suposed to kick off some faster reconciliation and hang around for a bit. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 18:08:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28575 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:08:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28566 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:08:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03280; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd003130; Thu Jan 28 19:08:10 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA10419; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:07:56 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290207.TAA10419@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? To: dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:07:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36AEFF42.16C1ED0D@newsguy.com> from "Daniel C. Sobral" at Jan 27, 99 08:57:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > These patches limit the number of jobs cron will start per second, with a > > initial burst, a hard limit, as well as a 'burst mode', if the number of > > jobs on the 'to do list' is geting excessively high. > > How do you select which jobs get executed? I fear a DoS attack might > be possible unless you somehow prevent a user to always get the same > "place" in the execution queue. Actually, it seems that his patches deal with the "fairness" issue pretty well. Play computer and look what happens when one user fires a job with great frequency compared to another user. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 18:09:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28689 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:09:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28680 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:09:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01089; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd000971; Thu Jan 28 19:09:43 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA10548; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:09:32 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290209.TAA10548@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:09:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901271703.JAA40222@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Jan 27, 99 09:03:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :So this is why pmake drives our system load average up to 8-10 before > :dropping back down to the assigned limit of 5, huh? Maybe we should > :fix the load average computations as John suggested. > > There's nothing wrong with the load average computation, it's a 1, 5, > and 15 minute pseudo-average just as advertised. What's wrong are the > programs that try to use it to regulate themselves. An instantaneous load average is very easy to maintain and retrieve, using number of jobs in the ready-to-run state. This is how Solaris does load. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 18:15:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29623 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:15:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29605 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:15:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA21194; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:15:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd021063; Thu Jan 28 19:15:18 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA10882; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:15:00 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290215.TAA10882@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? To: dyson@iquest.net Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:14:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901281734.MAA21561@y.dyson.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jan 28, 99 12:34:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Throttling fork rate is also a valuable tool, and maybe a hard limit > is good also. It is all about how creative you are (or want to be) > in your solution :-). I wonder about an explicit yield being a result of your standard fork(2) call invocation... the more processes in read-to-run, the longer you get to wait before your next fork... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 18:48:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04039 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:48:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (ppp1-45.presc.dialup.futureone.com [209.250.11.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04031 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:48:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rcarter@psf.Pinyon.ORG) Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by psf.Pinyon.ORG (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA65023; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:44:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rcarter@psf.Pinyon.ORG) Message-Id: <199901290244.TAA65023@psf.Pinyon.ORG> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Robert Watson cc: "John S. Dyson" , rcarter@pinyon.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Error in vm_fault change In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:15:49 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:44:18 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG %> I'd love to have a pointer to the paper... % %John, % %Here's a URL pointing to the document containing that paper: % %http://reports-archive.adm.cs.cmu.edu/anon/1998/abstracts/98-103.html % %The project was done for the graduate level software systems class here, %so is with a collection of other papers/projects of varying degrees of %quality (some are better than others). The one you're interested in is: % %Proportional-Share Scheduling: Implementation and Evaluation in a %Widely-Deployed Operating System, David Petrou and John Milford, pp. 17-28 % This is very interesting, thanks for the pointer! It sure looks to me that it applies to the original point of this discussion. Russell % Robert N Watson % %robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ %PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C % %Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ %TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ %SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ % % %To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org %with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message % To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 19:07:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06051 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:07:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atdot.dotat.org (atdot.dotat.org [203.23.150.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06044 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:07:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from newton@atdot.dotat.org) Received: (from newton@localhost) by atdot.dotat.org (8.9.2/8.7) id NAA07795; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:36:29 +1030 (CST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:36:29 +1030 (CST) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199901290306.NAA07795@atdot.dotat.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? Cc: mike@smith.net.au Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > I don't understand why we can't use VM86 bios calls to switch modes these > > days. Mind you, I don't really understand the VM86 code. > > The BIOS can only be expected to move from one known state to another > known state. Because the BIOS hasn't put the card *into* the mode that > the X server is in, it can't be expected to get it out. Speaking out of ignorance here: The BIOS can reset the card, can't it? [ if not, how does the video mode get restored when you reboot? ] It's in a known state once it has been reset, one would hope... - mark -------------------------------------------------------------------- I tried an internal modem, newton@atdot.dotat.org but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton ----- Voice: +61-4-1958-3414 ------------- Fax: +61-8-83034403 ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 19:11:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06763 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:11:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06752 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14707; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:10:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd014626; Thu Jan 28 20:10:38 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA14527; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:10:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290310.UAA14527@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: pthreads memory leak in 3.0R ? To: apg@demos.net (Paul Antonov) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:10:20 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Paul Antonov" at Jan 23, 99 08:05:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > while developing some application using ACE I discovered that program > leaks memory when creating/destroying ACE tasks. I've tried to > create/delete plain threads with ACE Thread_Manager, and effect is the > same. Finally, I wrote the following program, and it consumes lots of > memory during run. Something is wrong, I suppose? You are causing it to do the stack allocation itself. You should look to see if the stack is being correctly destructed, or leaked. Sorr for the delay in reply, but it appears no one else has replied, so it's at least something obvious to try. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 19:18:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07920 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:18:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07901 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:18:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09476 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:48:41 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:58:04 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Getting SIGHUP's when run from rc.d Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, We have a experiment program which gets run out of /usr/local/etc/rc.d and it always get a SIGHUP when run by /etc/rc but not when run by hand. Any ideas why? Its not much of a problem, but we're concerned that we may get other unexpected signals later which WOULD be a problem :) BTW the problem was worked around by getting sh to spawn a subshell which ran sleep 1, and the the actual experiment demon. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 19:23:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08658 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:23:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08651 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:23:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20073; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:22:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd019984; Thu Jan 28 20:22:46 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA15376; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:22:33 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290322.UAA15376@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:22:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au In-Reply-To: <36ADD73B.1F2DAA38@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at Jan 26, 99 07:54:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The PS/2 port in on the port replicator whereas the USB port is on the > > laptop. Anyway, Mike gave me the answer I wanted :-) > > Yes, I saw it! Now I wonder if he has USB keyboard support, too? ;^) This is probably more appropriate to -hardware, but... Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to the world is a USB port? It looks like there are about 100 different monitors that do USB now, and with a keyboard and a mouse and a disk and an ADSL modem all hung off of USB... Anyway, Amancio says he'd prefer FireWire for the monitor (at it's slowest, FW can transfer 68 Mbits/S more a second than PCI!), but of course he's a video geek. 8-). So maybe a box with just a power connector, a FW port and a USB hub chip (to seperate the "A" and "B" devices). Maybe I should send this to Tony over at dell... 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 19:24:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08809 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:24:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08803 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:24:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21306; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:24:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd021160; Thu Jan 28 20:24:27 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA15562; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:24:08 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290324.UAA15562@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Getting SIGHUP's when run from rc.d To: doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:24:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Daniel O'Connor" at Jan 29, 99 01:58:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > We have a experiment program which gets run out of /usr/local/etc/rc.d > and it always get a SIGHUP when run by /etc/rc but not when run by hand. > Any ideas why? Controlling tty goes away. man daemonize Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 19:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09312 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:29:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09301 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:29:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23235; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:29:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd023148; Thu Jan 28 20:29:22 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA15833; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:29:00 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290329.UAA15833@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: a.out/ELF differences: C++ static constructor ordering To: bgrayson@marvin.ece.utexas.edu (Brian C. Grayson) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:28:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990127170800.A27484@marvin.ece.utexas.edu> from "Brian C. Grayson" at Jan 27, 99 05:08:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I just noticed (after two days of gdb and instrumenting the STL > header files -- fun!) that my current problem stems from the fact > that under ELF, static constructors are invoked in a different > order than under a.out. Sounds like you are compiling ACAP. A correct program is not permitted to rely on order of construction of static constructors. Jeremy Allison patched our version of ACAP to ensure program order matched expeced construction order. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 19:33:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09769 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:33:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09757 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:32:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24348; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:32:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd023996; Thu Jan 28 20:32:43 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA16038; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:31:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290331.UAA16038@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Netware client 1.2beta1 To: winter@jurai.net (Matthew N. Dodd) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:31:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: bp@butya.kz, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Matthew N. Dodd" at Jan 28, 99 00:25:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Any ideas on Netware printer client support? > > Yes, I'm already work on it, but there a few design questions. > > ?? You might want to ask Jim Freeman at Caldera, since he wrote the thing for NetWare for UNIX. > > P.S. Fow now I don't plan support for NDS, so please use bindery logins > > for NW4.11. > > I'm running NW3.12 :) Quite some time ago Novell offered to license, for free, the NDS from NetWare for UNIX 4.01 in order to get their directory technology deployed. It's basically an inverted X.500, in design. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 19:36:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10226 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:36:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10219 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:36:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15630; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015602; Thu Jan 28 20:36:17 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA16304; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:36:13 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290336.UAA16304@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Netware client 1.2beta1 To: bp@butya.kz (Boris Popov) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:36:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: winter@jurai.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Boris Popov" at Jan 28, 99 07:56:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Well, it's a first public release of nwlib. All concepts, design and > > > implementation was maded to suit my needs, so I'll be very grateful > > > > Woo, works fairly well for me. Was a bit slow with all the debuging > > enabled. > Of course, with all debug options it produces a lot of messages. > > > > I'm seeing problems with the '.' directory disappearing. The "." and ".." directories in NetWare are synthetic. We had exactly the reverse problem when I wrote the NXFS attributed FS for UnixWare; the client would get the "." and ".." from the server, and synthesize them again at the client. 8-) I also remember something about ".." strangeness at the top of the volume; it's maybe because we exported FS subtrees that had a real ".." in them as NetWare volumes, though. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 19:55:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12686 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:55:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12669; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:55:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04318; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:55:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd004057; Thu Jan 28 20:55:18 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA17472; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:54:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290354.UAA17472@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: softupdates on / To: jonny@jonny.eng.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:54:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: julian@whistle.com, jonny@jonny.eng.br, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901281951.RAA26420@roma.coe.ufrj.br> from "Joao Carlos Mendes Luis" at Jan 28, 99 05:51:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > #define quoting(Julian Elischer) > // On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > // > Is there a strong reason for softupdates be a tunefs option, instead of > // > a mount option ? This could be easily solved by a > // > // kirk has convinsing arguments against it and "He's the man" > ^^^^^^^^^ > > I got your point, but can you list these arguments ? If it's only "he > wants it this way, god only knows why", it's allright, but if there's > a technical reason, I'd like to know. One argument is that fsck needs to be able to tell how the thing was last mounted, if it's going to do soft-updates specific things, like not fixing up the cg free list before allowing the mount. I personally don't really buy this argument, since it should be possible to synchnously update a flag in the superblock when switching states, the same way the clean flag gets updated. A second argument is that there may be dirty device buffers hung off the device vnode, and not known to the FS mounted on the device, which is an artifact of a decision a long time ago to limit the max size of a file instead of the max size of a device. It's also one of those nasty "VM alias" issues. This is stickier. Effectively, it means that there will be I/O operations pending at the time of the state change from async to softupdates. If that happens, the results can be tragic, since the dependency graph requires that all pending operations be known, such that the graph can traversed to force operations to occur in dependency order. Kirk has admitted that you can work around this problem by first unmounting and then remounting the device in the mount update operation, since doing so will result in any dirty buffers being sync'ed out, which solves the problem. This is proven in fact by the unmount/tune/remount working as expected. I personally think that this should be done, and that, further, the mount/unmount operations should be seperated from the mapping into the FS hierarchy. This would simplify a hell of a lot of things, not the least of which is the ability to change into and out of soft updates on the fly. Effectively, you would move the "mount update" out of the FS specific code, and into higher level shared code that unmounted and remounted the device. If the root/non-root mount knowledge were taken from the per FS code at the same time, the mount operation could take a mount struct as an argument. For an update, there would be no freeing and reallocation of the mount struct, like there would be in an unmount-then-mount. This all has a nice side effect of movinf the NFS export code into the common code, and fixing the NFS export issue for those FS's that can't be NFS exported currently. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 20:00:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13454 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:00:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13448 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:00:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05534; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:00:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd005238; Thu Jan 28 21:00:24 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA17862; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:59:54 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290359.UAA17862@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: rules to allocate buffers in device drivers To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:59:46 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901282019.MAA03434@bubba.whistle.com> from "Archie Cobbs" at Jan 28, 99 12:19:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > u_char *buffer; > > buffer = malloc( SIZE, M_DEVBUF, M_NOWAIT); > > Yes this works.. you also have to make sure buffer != NULL > after calling malloc, as it can be with M_NOWAIT. > > M_DEVBUF is the type. You must free it with the same type argument. > > M_NOWAIT or M_WAITOK are the latter choices. Don't use M_WAITOK > from within an interrupt context, because it can put you to sleep. > > Also, you should use the MALLOC() and FREE() macros in > instead. Just to add to what Archie has correctly pointed out here... you probably don't want to allocate things at interrupt, in any case, since it makes the interrupt servicing much slower. A better plan is to pre-allocate one resource at instantiation, and then use a mechanism (like NETISR) to preallocate the next resource to replace the one that was used. It'd be real nice if FreeBSD could be a little more deterministic about the time it takes to process an interrupt to completion before leaving interrupt mode... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 20:20:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15141 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:20:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15132 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:20:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14618; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:20:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd014490; Thu Jan 28 21:20:10 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA19374; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:19:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901290419.VAA19374@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:19:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901262039.MAA21275@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Jan 26, 99 12:39:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I just had a crash on my workstation. X froze up in the middle of a > redraw, and the machine unresponsive to pings from the outside. > > The thing had dropped into DDB. I really wanted to see what DDB was > trying to tell me so I could fix it, but I couldn't see it since it > was still in X. > > I knew it was in DDB because I could type 'panic' and > the machine rebooted :-) > > It sure wouuld be nice if DDB could restore the video back to VGA. > Anybody have any ideas? Yes. GGI, which puts the driver in the kernel instead of the X server; wonderfully suited to KLD-izing of drivers: http://www.ggi-project.org/ You can get the XFree86 server that uses it from: http://www.stacken.kth.se/~mackan/ggi/xggi/ "Heretic" has been ported to it: http://gametome.linuxquake.com/show?Heretic The license policy is: 1.X license for KGI drivers or others at the authors discretion, but those might need to be distributed separately, then. 2.KGI-to-kernel glue layers take a license as appropriate for the host OS. 3.LibGGI, LibGII, etc. has X-style licensing. 4.Other libraries: At authors' discretion, X is preferred. 5.Headers, makefiles, makerules, and scripts, as public domain. 6.Demos are under the author's discretion. The recommendation is to put them into the public domain. Mesa (OpenGL) as of 2.6 has GGI drivers. >From the FAQ ( http://www.ggi-project.org/docs/faq.html ) FreeBSD? Solaris? Ports for these OSes as well as Windows and DOS are under way. Please check the status pages for more detailed information on usability. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 20:47:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18872 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:47:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA18865 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:47:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 1065pw-0005mz-00; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:47:20 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA63083; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:46:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901290446.VAA63083@harmony.village.org> To: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: Verification of bug in dev/pdq/pdq.c Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:34:38 PST." <199901271934.LAA47551@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199901271934.LAA47551@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:46:35 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199901271934.LAA47551@apollo.backplane.com> Matthew Dillon writes: : } else if (status.rxs_fsc == 0 | status.rxs_fsb_e == 1) { : I presume the '|' instead of '||' is a bug. Second opinion? I think it is a bug. Once upon a time this was the proper style, but that time passed long ago. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 21:29:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23456 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:29:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23451 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:29:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA27996; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:28:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:28:40 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: John Polstra cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-Reply-To: <199901281821.KAA11893@vashon.polstra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, John Polstra wrote: > At least one commercial company employs CVSup to do field upgrades > of their FreeBSD-based product. In that application, CVSup upgrades > the entire root and /usr filesystems. Have you seen any example-laden FAQs on something like this? You've piqued my curiousity... Thanks, Charles > > John > -- > John Polstra jdp@polstra.com > John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA > "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." > -- H. L. Mencken > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 21:42:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24658 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:42:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24621 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:42:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01866; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:41:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36B14A05.BD6BB5F9@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:41:25 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: "Matthew N. Dodd" , bp@butya.kz, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netware client 1.2beta1 References: <199901290331.UAA16038@usr07.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > Any ideas on Netware printer client support? > > > Yes, I'm already work on it, but there a few design questions. > > > > ?? > > You might want to ask Jim Freeman at Caldera, since he wrote the > thing for NetWare for UNIX. Except he's not at Caldera anymore, he's at Xylan Utah now. ;^) He has several FreeBSD boxes to hack on also, one of which was recently "made famous" in Daemon News. And a number of NetWare servers to test against also. You can reach Jim as jfree@sovereign.org. Tell him Wes and Terry sent you. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 21:44:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25034 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:44:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sydney.alpha.net.au (sydney.alpha.net.au [203.31.171.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25027 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@alpha.net.au) Received: from [192.168.0.102] ([203.41.44.5]) by sydney.alpha.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22791; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:44:25 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901290544.QAA22791@sydney.alpha.net.au> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:40:14 +1100 Subject: Re: security mailing lists From: "Danny" To: eT , Hackers FreeBSD Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi iam danny i have a poject for intarnet development in my office. I was wondering if any of u people have some direction I can take to get into details about intranent development. Like a website or something like that. :) reply to me danny@alpha.net.au ################################################# Interested in joining a lame ISP?? Unfriendly support?? No Support for Macs Then u should call 1800 265 265. ################################################### To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 22:12:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA27672 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:12:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA27661 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:12:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11769; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:41:51 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199901290324.UAA15562@usr07.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:51:18 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Getting SIGHUP's when run from rc.d Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 29-Jan-99 Terry Lambert wrote: > > We have a experiment program which gets run out of /usr/local/etc/rc.d > > and it always get a SIGHUP when run by /etc/rc but not when run by hand. > > Any ideas why? > > Controlling tty goes away. > > man daemonize Well.. daemon(3) exists :) I had a look and that fixed it, thanks. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 22:31:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29507 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:31:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA29500 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:31:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA39348; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:37:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:37:48 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Mark Newton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-Reply-To: <199901290306.NAA07795@atdot.dotat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Mark Newton wrote: > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > I don't understand why we can't use VM86 bios calls to switch modes these > > > days. Mind you, I don't really understand the VM86 code. > > > > The BIOS can only be expected to move from one known state to another > > known state. Because the BIOS hasn't put the card *into* the mode that > > the X server is in, it can't be expected to get it out. > > Speaking out of ignorance here: The BIOS can reset the card, can't it? > > [ if not, how does the video mode get restored when you reboot? ] > > It's in a known state once it has been reset, one would hope... I did a bit of that 'r33t0' mode-X stuff a while back, the bios didn't seem to have a problem with restoring from that. However without having actually tried anything I'm assuming Mike means that with the complex graphics processors out there, that sometimes the only way to get it back into a known state is to rerun the svga bios's point of entry. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 23:15:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03912 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:15:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ice.cold.org (cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03904 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:15:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brandon@ice.cold.org) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by ice.cold.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id AAA22152 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:15:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990129001516.A21986@cold.org> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:15:16 -0700 From: Brandon Gillespie To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: more modular rc/init/uninit system... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-md5; boundary=3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.roguetrader.com/~brandon/brandon@roguetrader_com.pubkey Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This sortof thing has been discussed before, and in the past I have felt rather indifferent to the whole issue, but as I an paid to work more and more with SYSV style systems (pretty much everything not free, anymore) I have come to dislike some of the inadequacies of the BSD rc/init system. Specifically: 1) Have you ever wanted to re-run just a small subset of what is contained within /etc/rc or its sub ilk? And instead you ended up skimming the code and manually cutting and pasting to get the desired effect? 2) Have you noticed the growing number of modularized aspects for rc? (checkout /etc/rc.*) 3) How many times have you wanted to shutdown and/or restart a system process, started by these scripts and configured by rc.conf? Your only recourse is manually doing so... 4) What do you think of the dual standard with /etc/rc* vs /usr/local/etc/rc.d? This has made me reconsider the system, and at one point I thought about making a port/package that would frob the default rc system=20 to be more of a hybrid SYSV/BSD system. However, the daunting factor of keeping it up to date has made me discard this idea. Instead, I'll just toss it out for discussion. To preface, I realize (and personally believe) that the SYSV method is overly complex. And largely irrelevant to BSD systems (without run levels). With this in mind I've tried to workup a modular _simple_ system that could easilly work with what we have, and would give much benefit and gain (imho, of course :) Also note, it doesn't discard current mechanisms, it just enhances them. So while people would need to learn the expanded functionality, it is not a complete paradigm shift. Because I am not sure if this is even of interest, I'll just point to a page explaining my alternative hybrid idea: http://www.roguetrader.com/~brandon/rc-alt.html Frankly, it would not take much work to implement. The most work involved would be in updating the ports/packages that currently write their own init scripts to conform to a unified standard shared by both system rc files and /usr/local rc files. Changing /etc/rc* to the suggested system would probably take a day, with a week or so of testing. -Brandon Gillespie --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use MessageID: /QzqGrYAI1LtAHpXaazUzRULDOKl0DIY iQA/AwUBNrFgA0v5XoQiMgn6EQJB6QCgw4pBKVEICqJO0iatSuO8nEnyQ0MAoI3Z AGZnvrDlTTFU+jUDXeHD1Amc =f211 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 23:41:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06613 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:41:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itp.ac.ru (itp.ac.ru [193.233.32.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06604 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:41:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ks@itp.ac.ru) Received: from speecart.chg.ru (speecart.chg.ru [193.233.46.2]) by itp.ac.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06841 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:45:19 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:42:18 +0300 (MSK) Organization: Landau Institute for Theoretical Physics From: "Sergey S. Kosyakov" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: select and threads again Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I did not receive answer on previous mail, so again: is select(2) really thread-safe in 3.0R? In detail: can I call select in a number of concurrent threads, e.g., for connection or data waiting? This is essential of Xerox ILU operations in multy-thread mode. Thanks, Sergey --- ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 28 23:56:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08541 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:56:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08531 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:56:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA13084; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:00:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199901290800.TAA13084@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: select and threads again In-Reply-To: from "Sergey S. Kosyakov" at "Jan 29, 1999 10:42:18 am" To: ks@itp.ac.ru (Sergey S. Kosyakov) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:00:38 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sergey S. Kosyakov wrote: [Charset KOI8-R unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > Hi, > > I did not receive answer on previous mail, so again: is select(2) really > thread-safe in 3.0R? In detail: can I call select in a number of concurrent > threads, e.g., for connection or data waiting? This is essential of Xerox ILU > operations in multy-thread mode. If you link with libc_r, yes. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 00:05:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA09947 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:05:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itp.ac.ru (itp.ac.ru [193.233.32.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA09937 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:05:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ks@itp.ac.ru) Received: from speecart.chg.ru (speecart.chg.ru [193.233.46.2]) by itp.ac.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07009; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:09:22 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199901290800.TAA13084@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:06:21 +0300 (MSK) Organization: Landau Institute for Theoretical Physics From: "Sergey S. Kosyakov" To: John Birrell Subject: Re: select and threads again Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear John, Thank you for your quick answer. But there is problem with ILU I trying to solve. For each operation on each TCP socket ILU starts new thread, which inturn calls select(). I trace this processes and found that if two threads in the same time calls select (with timeout=infinity) on different sockets that only the last thread stays operational. The first thread hangs forever on select(). May be there are some underwater stones? I compile and link ILU with "cc -g -pthread", nothing more. On 29-Jan-99 John Birrell wrote: > Sergey S. Kosyakov wrote: > [Charset KOI8-R unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] >> >> Hi, >> >> I did not receive answer on previous mail, so again: is select(2) really >> thread-safe in 3.0R? In detail: can I call select in a number of concurrent >> threads, e.g., for connection or data waiting? This is essential of Xerox >> ILU >> operations in multy-thread mode. > > If you link with libc_r, yes. > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 --- ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 00:07:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10100 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:07:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bugs.us.dell.com (bugs.us.dell.com [143.166.169.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10089 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:07:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Received: from ant (ant.us.dell.com [143.166.12.34]) by bugs.us.dell.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA06930; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:07:06 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990129020703.007cdec0@bugs.us.dell.com> X-Sender: tony@bugs.us.dell.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:07:03 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Tony Overfield Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901290322.UAA15376@usr07.primenet.com> References: <36ADD73B.1F2DAA38@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 03:22 AM 1/29/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >It looks like there are about 100 different monitors that do USB >now, Those monitors have USB for controls and for "convenience" hubs, but the video itself doesn't go over the USB. >So maybe a box with just a power connector, a FW port and a USB hub >chip (to seperate the "A" and "B" devices). > >Maybe I should send this to Tony over at dell... 8-). Don't worry, we already have plenty of marketing types that think up stuff like that all too often. ;-) Tony To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 00:14:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10862 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:14:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10853; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:14:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24160; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:14:14 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA33967; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:14:13 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:14:12 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Alex Zepeda Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/scripts dokern.sh Message-ID: <19990129091412.D27372@bitbox.follo.net> References: <199901281605.OAA17034@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Alex Zepeda on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 01:56:07PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Moved to -hackers. On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 01:56:07PM -0800, Alex Zepeda wrote: > On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > > > #define quoting(Jordan K. Hubbard) > > // Modified files: > > // release/scripts dokern.sh > > // Log: > > // Nuke pnp0 from boot.flp > > > > How big is this ? Couldn't this be necessary for some PnP modem or > > network cards ? > > It might be, FWIW, I still had to enter the irq, and io addresses for my > Cardinal PnP modem, with the generic kernel, and with one of my own > crafting. With 'controller pnp0' included in the config? > Or does sio only accept certian card IDs? If your card include the compatibility ID for serial ports, it should work. If it doesn't - well, it isn't claiming to be some type of serial port, so there isn't that much we can do about it. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 00:14:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10914 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10903 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:14:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA13146; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:14:15 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199901290814.TAA13146@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: select and threads again In-Reply-To: from "Sergey S. Kosyakov" at "Jan 29, 1999 11: 6:21 am" To: ks@itp.ac.ru (Sergey S. Kosyakov) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:14:15 +1100 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sergey S. Kosyakov wrote: > Thank you for your quick answer. But there is problem with ILU I trying to > solve. For each operation on each TCP socket ILU starts new thread, which > inturn calls select(). I trace this processes and found that if two threads in > the same time calls select (with timeout=infinity) on different sockets that > only the last thread stays operational. The first thread hangs forever on > select(). May be there are some underwater stones? I compile and link ILU with > "cc -g -pthread", nothing more. I have applications (including one I'm working on) that do this a *lot*. It works for me. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 00:41:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14009 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:41:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (rnocserv.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13983 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:41:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Received: from urc.ac.ru (y.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.37]) by rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10963; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:38:56 +0500 (ES) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Message-ID: <36B1739E.1A22A983@urc.ac.ru> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:38:55 +0500 From: Konstantin Chuguev Organization: Southern Regional Center of FREEnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brandon Gillespie CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <19990129001516.A21986@cold.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't want to make yet another flame. IMO the only thing missing in today's FreeBSD rc system is inability to REconfigure the system by changing variable values in rc.conf[.local]. I prefer to see all variables WITH their values (read "system configuration") in the one file. It is impossible in SYSV init system - you can see just various system pieces, not their initialization values. In other words, you can easily switch any service ON or OFF in SYSV. I'd prefer to customize them in more details (and again, to see them all). So, in FreeBSD system of my dream, rc.conf looks exactly the same way as for now, plus rc.* scripts know somehow about how to reconfigure each of their part. For example, it could be implemented in the way vipw works: a sysadmin runs a script which: 1. reads (includes) the (old) configuration - rc.conf[.local] - and saves it in shell variables (probably adding "old_" prefix); 2. starts an $EDITOR rc.conf[.local] allowing a sysadmin to change some variables; 3. reads (includes) the changed config file with new variable values (maybe adding "new_" prefix); 4. analyzes changes between variables, makes correspondent actions (switches interfaces up/down, changes/adds/deletes routes, loads/unloads modules, restarts daemons etc.) Of course, the key part of this is the last one. I don't think it's very difficult, but definitely it requires rewriting rc.* scripts. Probably I should already show you at least draft version of such new configure scripts. I don't have them, sorry. I wouldn't even try to write such scripts without guarantee that I won't have to rewrite them again and again in case they are not in the distribution. So it's a question of decision of all the FreeBSD community (well, at least the core team :-) about is this stuff necessary/desired. Brandon Gillespie wrote: > This sortof thing has been discussed before, and in the past I have > felt rather indifferent to the whole issue, but as I an paid to work > more and more with SYSV style systems (pretty much everything not > free, anymore) I have come to dislike some of the inadequacies of the > BSD rc/init system. Specifically: > > 1) Have you ever wanted to re-run just a small subset of what is > contained within /etc/rc or its sub ilk? And instead you ended > up skimming the code and manually cutting and pasting to get > the desired effect? > 2) Have you noticed the growing number of modularized aspects for > rc? (checkout /etc/rc.*) > 3) How many times have you wanted to shutdown and/or restart a > system process, started by these scripts and configured by > rc.conf? Your only recourse is manually doing so... > 4) What do you think of the dual standard with /etc/rc* vs > /usr/local/etc/rc.d? > > This has made me reconsider the system, and at one point I thought > about making a port/package that would frob the default rc system > to be more of a hybrid SYSV/BSD system. However, the daunting factor > of keeping it up to date has made me discard this idea. Instead, > I'll just toss it out for discussion. > > To preface, I realize (and personally believe) that the SYSV method > is overly complex. And largely irrelevant to BSD systems (without run > levels). With this in mind I've tried to workup a modular _simple_ > system that could easilly work with what we have, and would give much > benefit and gain (imho, of course :) Also note, it doesn't discard > current mechanisms, it just enhances them. So while people would need > to learn the expanded functionality, it is not a complete paradigm > shift. > > Because I am not sure if this is even of interest, I'll just point to > a page explaining my alternative hybrid idea: > > http://www.roguetrader.com/~brandon/rc-alt.html > > Frankly, it would not take much work to implement. The most work > involved would be in updating the ports/packages that currently write > their own init scripts to conform to a unified standard shared by both > system rc files and /usr/local rc files. Changing /etc/rc* to the > suggested system would probably take a day, with a week or so of testing. > > -Brandon Gillespie > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature -- Konstantin V. Chuguev. System administrator of Southern http://www.urc.ac.ru/~joy/ Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, mailto:joy@urc.ac.ru Chelyabinsk, Russia. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 01:15:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19578 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:15:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server.noc.demon.net (server.noc.demon.net [193.195.224.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA19563; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:15:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from geoffb@gti.noc.demon.net) Received: by server.noc.demon.net; id JAA25608; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:15:53 GMT Received: from gti.noc.demon.net(195.11.55.101) by inside.noc.demon.net via smap (3.2) id xma025584; Fri, 29 Jan 99 09:15:38 GMT Received: (from geoffb@localhost) by gti.noc.demon.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06254; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:15:31 GMT Message-ID: <19990129091530.E27645@gti.noc.demon.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:15:30 +0000 From: Geoff Buckingham To: Julian Elischer , Matthew Dillon Cc: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis , asami@cs.berkeley.edu, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates on / Reply-To: Geoff Buckingham References: <199901282313.PAA11607@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Julian Elischer on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 04:59:32PM -0800 Organisation: Demon Internet Ltd Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Previously on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 04:59:32PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: : The eventual aim is to never use NON softupdates mode.. Does the licensing not prevent this? (For those pursuing a commercial purpose who havn't come to an arangment with McKusick.) -- Geoff Buckingham To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 01:50:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24069 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:50:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24064 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:50:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA06673; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:51:51 GMT Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:51:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Terry Lambert cc: Wes Peters , roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <199901290322.UAA15376@usr07.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > The PS/2 port in on the port replicator whereas the USB port is on the > > > laptop. Anyway, Mike gave me the answer I wanted :-) > > > > Yes, I saw it! Now I wonder if he has USB keyboard support, too? ;^) > > This is probably more appropriate to -hardware, but... > > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > the world is a USB port? SGI just started selling them. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 03:04:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00604 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:04:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA00530; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:03:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA12795; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:53:44 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199901290853.JAA12795@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: "warning: malloc wrapped" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:53:44 +0100 (MET) Cc: phk@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, while loading a rather large PicoBSD image (leaving only some 50KB free on a 1.44MB floppy; the in-kernel fs size is 2400KB) i get the following message: Booting 0:fd(0,a)kernel @ 0x333000 text=0x138000 data=0x0 bss=0xa00 symbols=[+0x600+0x4+0x270+0x4+0x1e2] total=0x46c45a entry point=0x333000 Uncompressing kernel...warning: malloc wrapped done Booting the kernel (this is on 2.2.X, the image is a.out format, and i see it on both an 8MB and a 128MB machine.) I am concerned by the "malloc wrapped" message -- what is exactly happening, and can i fix it in some way ? I haven't seen any problem so far but it might just be that it corrupts some pieces of code/mfs that i have not used yet. thanks luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO . EMAIL: luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione HTTP://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 03:14:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01559 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA01554 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:14:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id VAA10637; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:44:39 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA02881; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:44:38 +1030 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:44:38 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Julian Elischer Cc: Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates on / In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > The eventual aim is to never use NON softupdates mode.. > The system is not supposed to bonb with "filesystem full" when there are > uncommitted delete operations on the softupdates queues. > if it does, then there is a bug. It's suposed to kick off some faster > reconciliation and hang around for a bit. Unless I'm mistaking you, this is in fact what happens: [morden|root] 21:34 ~ df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/wd0s2a 32254 21244 8430 72% / /dev/wd0s2f 596286 534890 13694 98% /usr /dev/wd1s3e 496367 456461 197 100% /usr2 /dev/wd1s3f 396895 360004 5140 99% /home /dev/wd0s2e 29727 7705 19644 28% /var /dev/wd0s1 872640 848720 23920 97% /c /dev/wd1s1 1023824 942256 81568 92% /d /dev/wd1s5 511760 486472 25288 95% /e procfs 4 4 0 100% /proc mfs:31 20598 16 18936 0% /tmp localhost:/ 0 0 0 100% /crypt [morden|root] 21:34 ~ pwd /home/kkenn [morden|root] 21:34 ~ mount ... /dev/wd1s3f on /home (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 1123 async 11409) [morden|root] 21:34 ~ dd if=/dev/zero of=bigfile bs=1024k count=20 20+0 records in 20+0 records out 20971520 bytes transferred in 11.454656 secs (1830829 bytes/sec) [morden|root] 21:34 ~ df ... /dev/wd1s3f 396895 382092 -16948 105% /home [morden|root] 21:34 ~ rm bigfile [In another window, as a regular user] [morden|kkenn] 21:35 ~ cp /etc/motd . /home: write failed, file system is full cp: ./motd: No space left on device This persists for 30 seconds exactly, until the clock expires and the space is reclaimed. Given the state of fullness of my partitions, I run into this quite frequently. I had always assumed it was just the way things were with soft-updates. Kris ----- (ASP) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) announced today that the release of its productivity suite, Office 2000, will be delayed until the first quarter of 1901. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 04:22:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA09647 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:22:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from octopus.originative.co.uk (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA09631 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:22:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) From: paul@originative.co.uk Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:21:01 -0000 Message-ID: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NMI failure address Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:21:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there any way to find out which address is causing the NMI so you can work out which DIMM has failed? Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 04:30:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA10392 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:30:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gemma.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (gemma.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE [129.70.136.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA10338 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:30:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bfischer@TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE) Received: from dahlie.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (dahlie.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE [129.70.136.11]) by gemma.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (8.9.1/8.9.1/TechFak/pk+ro19980721) with SMTP id NAA21052; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:30:03 +0100 (MET) From: Bjoern Fischer Received: by dahlie.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (SMI-8.6/pk970604A) id NAA13191; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:30:01 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:30:00 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: cdda2wav on 3.0-stable Message-ID: <19990129133000.A12848@dahlie.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, there are some oddities using cdda2wav (recent version; out of cdrecord-1.8a15) on a 3.0-stable machine: Shortly before the audio grabbing would have been finished, one of the processes terminates resulting a broken pipe. The audio file is regularly some kB too short. Has anybody else experienced similiar problems -- and got a solution? Otherwise I'll dig into it myself... Thanks, Bjoern -- (sig_t*)NULL To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 04:49:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA11745 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:49:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA11740; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:49:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: from silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (sji-ca34-116.ix.netcom.com [205.186.215.244]) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA07878; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:48:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (8.9.1/8.6.9) id EAA73292; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:48:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:48:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901291248.EAA73292@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> To: tlambert@primenet.com CC: jonny@jonny.eng.br, julian@whistle.com, jonny@jonny.eng.br, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199901290354.UAA17472@usr07.primenet.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:54:50 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: softupdates on / From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * From: Terry Lambert * One argument is that fsck needs to be able to tell how the thing * was last mounted, if it's going to do soft-updates specific * things, like not fixing up the cg free list before allowing the * mount. * * I personally don't really buy this argument, since it should be * possible to synchnously update a flag in the superblock when * switching states, the same way the clean flag gets updated. Doesn't it already do something like that? My 100GB partitions take about 30 seconds while the "superblock [is] updated for softupdates", I'd be surprised it can't even set a flag do indicate what it's doing. :) Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 04:50:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12140 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:50:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA12135; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:50:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: from silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (sji-ca34-116.ix.netcom.com [205.186.215.244]) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA07882; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (8.9.1/8.6.9) id EAA73297; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:49:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:49:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901291249.EAA73297@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> To: julian@whistle.com CC: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, jonny@jonny.eng.br, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Julian Elischer on Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:59:32 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: softupdates on / From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * From: Julian Elischer * The eventual aim is to never use NON softupdates mode.. * The system is not supposed to bonb with "filesystem full" when there are * uncommitted delete operations on the softupdates queues. That makes more sense, thanks. * if it does, then there is a bug. It's suposed to kick off some faster * reconciliation and hang around for a bit. I guess it's a bug then. :) Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 04:58:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12975 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:58:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA12954 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:58:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA13648 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:58:27 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA35584 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:58:26 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:58:26 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DPT wobbles Message-ID: <19990129135825.E34859@bitbox.follo.net> References: <19990128162102.A10431@emma.eng.uct.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990128162102.A10431@emma.eng.uct.ac.za>; from Shaun Courtney on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 04:21:03PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 04:21:03PM +0200, Shaun Courtney wrote: > Hi > > We are using 2.2.8-Release with an Asus p2B motherboard and a dpt 2144uw > raid controller. Connected on the scsi chain are 3 ibm 4Gig, 50 pin > drives that form the raid array and an hp dat drive. After days of > operation the dpt controller starts beeping indicating a drive failure, > if we rebuild the array without replacing the "failed" drive it > continues to work for another couple of days and then starts beeping > again - often it is an entirely different drive that has failed. We have > replaced all three drives and have put the machine onto a UPS, but still > the problem occurs. Can anyone help? Check your cabling. Intermittent failures usually comes from marginal cabling; the DPT drives the drives very hard. Another possibility is vibration reinforcement between the drives, but 3 drives sounds like awfully few for this problem, and usually the drives themselves will die. You can solve this type of problem by not using metal casing. I think a problem like yours would not occur if you ran with ram-to-drive ECC; have you set up your disks with 528 byte sectors, and equipped the DPT with ECC RAM from DPT? This gives you an extremely good error path, as you have error correction *everywhere*. Of course, with this you'd likely just have lost speed instead of finding your bad cabling (unless you read your logs carefully), which in some ways are worse... Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 05:59:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA18734 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:59:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itp.ac.ru (itp.ac.ru [193.233.32.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA18728 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:59:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ks@itp.ac.ru) Received: from speecart.chg.ru (speecart.chg.ru [193.233.46.2]) by itp.ac.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA09087; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:02:43 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199901290814.TAA13146@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:59:40 +0300 (MSK) Organization: Landau Institute for Theoretical Physics From: "Sergey S. Kosyakov" To: John Birrell Subject: Re: select and threads again Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Finally I found why select hangs. In multithread mode ILU uses pipe() for "communicational channel" between threads. So each select actually is waiting on two FD - first is the socket and second is the pipe. I don't know why in that situation select hangs forever. If I force select to wait only on single socket, then it works. I guess there are still some restrictions for select in multithread environment. On 29-Jan-99 John Birrell wrote: > Sergey S. Kosyakov wrote: >> Thank you for your quick answer. But there is problem with ILU I trying to >> solve. For each operation on each TCP socket ILU starts new thread, which >> inturn calls select(). I trace this processes and found that if two threads >> in >> the same time calls select (with timeout=infinity) on different sockets that >> only the last thread stays operational. The first thread hangs forever on >> select(). May be there are some underwater stones? I compile and link ILU >> with >> "cc -g -pthread", nothing more. > > I have applications (including one I'm working on) that do this a *lot*. > It works for me. > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 --- ---------------------------------- Sergey Kosyakov Laboratory of Distributed Computing Department of High-Performance Computing and Applied Network Research Landau Institute for Theoretical Physics E-Mail: ks@itp.ac.ru Date: 29-Jan-99 Time: 16:48:40 ---------------------------------- --- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 06:17:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20553 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:17:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20548 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:17:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA63254 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:17:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00463; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:18:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06301; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:02:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.1/8.6.9) id JAA05397; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:19:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:19:30 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199901291419.JAA05397@lakes.dignus.com> To: mike@smith.net.au, rivers@dignus.com Subject: Re: a.out compatibility "going away?" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199901290048.QAA01155@dingo.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > Just curious - I've seen references that indicate running an a.out > > program will eventually be removed from the system. > > I think you may be mistaking this. > > > Would it be wise to totally remove the ability to run old a.out binaries? > > Especially since we've been keeping up with compatibility since version > > 2.1.x? > > The ability to run a.out binaries is not likely to go away in a hurry. > It's more likely that a.out support will be distributed as an add-on > component. > > What is likely to go away is support for *building*the*system* in a.out > format. > That seems completely reasonable... Thanks for clarifying it! - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 06:19:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20637 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:19:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20626 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:18:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27108; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:06:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199901291406.JAA27108@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Konstantin Chuguev cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, witr@spooky.rwwa.com Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:38:55 +0500." <36B1739E.1A22A983@urc.ac.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:06:19 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG joy@urc.ac.ru said: :- I prefer to see all variables WITH their values (read "system :- configuration") in the one file. I absolutely agree. I've used (and developed) both systems for a long time, and I think there are some strong plusses and minuses for both systems: BSD plusses: All configuration variables are in one place. This is a *HUGE* plus for newbies (they need only look in one place and understand how to edit) and for installations with *lots* of systems (because bulk configuration is *just* a sed script on *one* file. Additionally, a systems configuration can be documented by printing out this *one* file. Doing basic things like enabling/disabling subsystems is simple. BSD minuses: Relationships between installed components is hard-coded in the rc files by the placement of code. Installation of packages is complicated by the need to edit rc files to insert code. Installation of a new package can cause old packages to break. In a word, it is unmodular. SYSV plusses: It is much more modular. Installation of new packages is very simple: just put your config script in the correct directory. Also, there is an enforced regularity of the configuration scripts that makes them *individuall* more understandable. SYSV minuses: Configuration variables are scattered across the many confugration scripts. Altering confiuration is harder both for newbies (they have to be taught where to look and often how to alter shell scripts and not just change values in assignments) and for installations with lots of systems (you have to do lots of seds and directory walking, and linkining/unlinking. Documentation of system configuration is harder because there isn't just one file to print out. Basic operations like enabling/disabling a subsystem are harder (because deleting or renaming a link is less "obvious" than changing something to say DISABLED. A *huge* minus with the SYSV system is that relationships between installed components is *still* hardcoded due to the links in the rc.n directories. This creates lots of problems. For example if you disable component X that is needed by components Y and Z, Y and Z will still try to start and will fail, with possible negative consequenses. The SYSV method still sufferes from unmodularity. In the past I suggested a scheme (which many didn't understand, and which I didn't [and still don't] have time to implement) that I'll suggest again. I think this overcomes the minuses above and keeps the plusses. 1) a packages boot-time configuratnio script is packaged in a seperate file and placed in an init.d directory, as in the SYSV system. These scripts, however, define shell functions with conventional names, instead of being a case statment as in SYSV. Each file would contain: a) a ini__start function -- Starts the subsystem. b) a ini__stop function -- Stops the subsystem. c) a ini__requires function -- Declares the "requires" relationships with other packages by calling the "ini_requires" function for each package required by this package. d) a ini__conf function -- Declares the configuration variables *and* their defaults by calling the "ini_confvar" function for each configuration variable (arguments are variable name, default value, and comment). There would be a minimal set of *required* configuration variables, like "ini__enabled", "ini__path", and the like. The goal would be to have *nothing* hardcoded in the _start and _stop scripts. 2) At package installation time the package installation script executes the "ini_register" script with the name. The ini_register script sources the init script *and* the rc.conf script. If the symbol "ini_package_" is defined it does nothing. Otherwise it calls the ini__conf function, and for each configuration variable, it appends a line to the rc.conf file with the variable, the default, and the comment. At the beginning and end of this section would be a easily recognizable marker, like "#====Begin configuration" and "#====End configuration". 3) At start-up time the master start-up script would source *all* of these scripts, thus defining all the functions. It then sources the rc.conf script. It calls all of the ini__conf function which will define a value for each configuratin variable that is *not* defined in the rc.conf file, with its default value. It would then call the ini__requires function for each of the packages to gather the requirements, and would topologically sort the *enabled* ones. Then, in this sorted order, it would call each of the "ini__start functions". Of course, if a package required another package that was missing or disabled, an error would be produced and that package would be ignored. 4) And shut-down time, a similar process would be followed, except that the _stop functions would be called in *reverse* topological order. 5) When removing a package the ini_unregister script would be called. It would remove the configuration section (or perhaps just comment it out) from the rc.conf file. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 06:53:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23351 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:53:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from world.local (jcsbs.lanobis.de [62.104.165.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23342 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:53:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from prumpf@jcsbs.lanobis.de) Received: from insula.local (insula [10.1.31.6]) by world.local (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18607; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:50:27 +0100 Received: (from prumpf@localhost) by insula.local (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21820; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:53:00 GMT Message-ID: <19990129145259.21967@insula.local> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:52:59 +0000 From: Philipp Rumpf To: paul@originative.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NMI failure address Reply-To: Philipp Rumpf References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1 In-Reply-To: ; from paul@originative.co.uk on Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 12:21:00PM -0000 X-Accept-Language: en,de,se Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 12:21:00PM -0000, paul@originative.co.uk wrote: > Is there any way to find out which address is causing the NMI so you can > work out which DIMM has failed? You could disassemble the faulting instruction. If it is available, machine check architecture might help too. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 06:55:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23734 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:55:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23724 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:55:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA19618 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:55:13 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from kuku) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:55:13 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199901291455.PAA19618@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: real time kernel Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone know of a real time version of FreeBSD (or a romable version)? If not FreeBSD then one of the other *BSDs? -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 06:59:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24077 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:59:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server.noc.demon.net (server.noc.demon.net [193.195.224.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24064 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:59:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fanf@demon.net) Received: by server.noc.demon.net; id OAA06398; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:59:45 GMT Received: from fanf.noc.demon.net(195.11.55.83) by inside.noc.demon.net via smap (3.2) id xmad06388; Fri, 29 Jan 99 14:59:36 GMT Received: from fanf by fanf.noc.demon.net with local (Exim 1.73 #2) id 106FOS-0003F1-00; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:59:36 +0000 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Tony Finch Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <199901290322.UAA15376@usr07.primenet.com> References: <36ADD73B.1F2DAA38@softweyr.com> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:59:36 +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > >Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to >the world is a USB port? It'd be rather crippled with only 12Mbit/s of IO. >Anyway, Amancio says he'd prefer FireWire for the monitor (at it's >slowest, FW can transfer 68 Mbits/S more a second than PCI!), but >of course he's a video geek. 8-). I think you have your bits and bytes mixed up :-) Firewire starts out at 100Mbit/s (or at least it did when I first heard about it in 1994) and PCI starts at 132Mbyte/s. IIRC Firewire was designed to be extended to 800Mbit/s which doesn't get very near PCI's minimum. For good video you need 3Gbit/s to the tube (1600*1200, 72Hz, 24 bpp). >So maybe a box with just a power connector, a FW port and a USB hub >chip (to seperate the "A" and "B" devices). That would be cool. Tony. -- f.a.n.finch dot@dotat.at fanf@demon.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 07:23:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26801 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:23:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26796 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:23:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from babolo@aaz.links.ru) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA05340; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:28:23 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from babolo) Message-Id: <199901291528.SAA05340@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: real time kernel In-Reply-To: <199901291455.PAA19618@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> from "Christoph Kukulies" at "Jan 29, 99 03:55:13 pm" To: kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (Christoph Kukulies) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:28:23 +0300 (MSK) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Christoph Kukulies writes: > Does anyone know of a real time version of FreeBSD (or a romable version)? > If not FreeBSD then one of the other *BSDs? US Robotics Enterprise Hub router card -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 07:29:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27446 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:29:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [209.244.238.132] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27437 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:29:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA14926; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:23:47 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199901291523.KAA14926@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: real time kernel In-Reply-To: <199901291455.PAA19618@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> from Christoph Kukulies at "Jan 29, 99 03:55:13 pm" To: kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (Christoph Kukulies) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:23:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Does anyone know of a real time version of FreeBSD (or a romable version)? > If not FreeBSD then one of the other *BSDs? PicoBSD? It's not realtime, though. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 07:33:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27762 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:33:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27753 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:33:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02853; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:32:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36B1D4A3.A9ED1915@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:32:51 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christoph Kukulies CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: real time kernel References: <199901291455.PAA19618@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > Does anyone know of a real time version of FreeBSD (or a romable version)? > If not FreeBSD then one of the other *BSDs? Do you want real time, embedded, or both? If you're just looking for an embedded system, look no further than picoBSD, a miniaturized version of FreeBSD. http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ If you need real-time capabilities, RTMX is your system. See http://www.rtmx.com/ -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 07:34:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27943 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:34:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27931 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:34:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from babolo@aaz.links.ru) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA06478; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:39:12 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from babolo) Message-Id: <199901291539.SAA06478@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-Reply-To: <199901290306.NAA07795@atdot.dotat.org> from "Mark Newton" at "Jan 29, 99 01:36:29 pm" To: newton@atdot.dotat.org (Mark Newton) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:39:11 +0300 (MSK) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au From: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Newton writes: > Mike Smith wrote: > > > I don't understand why we can't use VM86 bios calls to switch modes these > > > days. Mind you, I don't really understand the VM86 code. > > > > The BIOS can only be expected to move from one known state to another > > known state. Because the BIOS hasn't put the card *into* the mode that > > the X server is in, it can't be expected to get it out. > Speaking out of ignorance here: The BIOS can reset the card, can't it? > [ if not, how does the video mode get restored when you reboot? ] BIOS can be buggy. I have S3 Trio V+ (I dont remember number) which do NOT restores by reboot - power cicle only > It's in a known state once it has been reset, one would hope... > > - mark > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > I tried an internal modem, newton@atdot.dotat.org > but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton > ----- Voice: +61-4-1958-3414 ------------- Fax: +61-8-83034403 ----- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 07:34:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27960 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:34:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27941 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:34:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13660; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:33:43 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199901291533.NAA13660@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: Netware client 1.2beta1 In-Reply-To: from Boris Popov at "Jan 26, 1999 7:48:56 pm" To: bp@butya.kz (Boris Popov) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:33:43 -0200 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Boris Popov) // Well, it's a first public release of nwlib. All concepts, // design and implementation was maded to suit my needs, so I'll be very // grateful for any comments, suggesstions, etc. Since it a first release it // may not work or even compile in your environment :). Note, nwfs require // FreeBSD version 3.0 and it must be very close to RELENG_3. Do you have (or intend to do in the future) some kind of user mapping between Unix and Netware ? Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro "This .sig is not meant to be politically correct." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 07:36:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28189 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:36:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mahtab2.neda.net.ir (mahtab2.neda.net.ir [194.165.21.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA28164 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:36:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from helly@PEYAM.NET) From: helly@PEYAM.NET Received: from peyam.neda.net.ir by mahtab2.neda.net.ir with SMTP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA10314; Fri, 29 Jan 99 19:04:52 GMT +0330 Received: from PEYAM.NET [192.168.14.1] by peyam.net.ir [192.168.14.2] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP0.R) for ; Fri, 29 Jan 99 19:05:16 +0300 Received: from MHS by PEYAM.NET with MHS id $T102879 ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:11:34 -0500 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:11:24 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #377 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mdaemon-Deliver-To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Pal ! I Have Problem With my DiskS! As you know , Function A and B from Int13 lets read/write long sector in HDD the 4 extra CRC bytes are reading by using this functions . Now , I need to do same in the floppy disks , Can you help me , How should be Done ? Sorry for poor English , Regards. E.Mirzazadeh , Known As Helly | Unforgiven ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 08:07:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02461 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:07:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02410 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:07:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA18747; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:07:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:07:28 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: #define question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:19:51 +0100 (CET) > From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai > To: FreeBSD Hackers > Subject: #define question > > Hi, > > simple question I'm sure... > > Do we have a systemwide variable to use in the form like this: > > #ifdef __FREEBSD__ > #include > #endif > > And with the variable I am referring to the __FREEBSD__ tag... To get the absolute minimum set of defines try the following: : adrian@radon; gcc -E -dM - < /dev/null #define __FreeBSD__ 4 #define __FreeBSD_cc_version 400001 #define __i386__ 1 #define __i386 1 #define __GNUC_MINOR__ 7 #define i386 1 #define __unix 1 #define __unix__ 1 #define __GNUC__ 2 #define __ELF__ 1 #define unix 1 : adrian@radon; cheers, Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 08:26:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:26:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04643 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:26:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00859; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:22:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901291622.IAA00859@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mark Newton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: Any way to get machine out of hires when it breaks into DDB> ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:36:29 +1030." <199901290306.NAA07795@atdot.dotat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:22:13 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > I don't understand why we can't use VM86 bios calls to switch modes these > > > days. Mind you, I don't really understand the VM86 code. > > > > The BIOS can only be expected to move from one known state to another > > known state. Because the BIOS hasn't put the card *into* the mode that > > the X server is in, it can't be expected to get it out. > > Speaking out of ignorance here: The BIOS can reset the card, can't it? No. > [ if not, how does the video mode get restored when you reboot? ] > > It's in a known state once it has been reset, one would hope... Only after a hardware reset (ie. when you reboot). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 09:04:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09964 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:04:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lion.butya.kz (butya-gw.butya.kz [194.87.112.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09951 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:04:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bp@butya.kz) Received: from bp (helo=localhost) by lion.butya.kz with local-esmtp (Exim 2.054 #1) id 106HH1-0002Gv-00; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:00:03 +0600 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:00:03 +0600 (ALMT) From: Boris Popov To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netware client 1.2beta1 In-Reply-To: <199901291533.NAA13660@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > // Well, it's a first public release of nwlib. All concepts, > // design and implementation was maded to suit my needs, so I'll be very > // grateful for any comments, suggesstions, etc. Since it a first release it > > Do you have (or intend to do in the future) some kind of user mapping > between Unix and Netware ? Yes, this will be implemented, but not now. -- Boris Popov To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 09:20:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11934 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11925; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:20:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA15493; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:11:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdY15475; Fri Jan 29 17:10:52 1999 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:10:46 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Geoff Buckingham cc: Matthew Dillon , Joao Carlos Mendes Luis , asami@cs.berkeley.edu, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates on / In-Reply-To: <19990129091530.E27645@gti.noc.demon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The licence will be changed after a while On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Geoff Buckingham wrote: > Previously on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 04:59:32PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > : The eventual aim is to never use NON softupdates mode.. > > Does the licensing not prevent this? (For those pursuing a commercial purpose > who havn't come to an arangment with McKusick.) > > -- > Geoff Buckingham > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 09:28:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12906 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:28:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12726; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:27:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id TAA28147; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:25:48 +0200 (EET) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:25:48 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Patches for 2.2-3.0 upgrade process [Was: ALERT: New Jordan's a.out->ELF upgrade is broken!!!] Message-ID: <19990129192548.A23285@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD Hackers References: <19990127200951.A19404@ucb.crimea.ua> <80570.917461685@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i In-Reply-To: <80570.917461685@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 10:28:05AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 10:28:05AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > There is still more work which needs to be done on the ordering and > TOC for what's installed. Your own changes were overly simplistic and > had other problems of their own. I'll be further refining this over > the next couple of days - I just took "kickme" to 4.0 with it and only > one failure (to reboot, which was comparatively minor). This is > and harder problem to solve than you seem to give it credit for, > and I'd also appreciate it if you'd start sending me diffs rather > than commentaries. Don't tell me what you THINK it does or should > do, show me changes which have been empirically proven to do it > better. > > - Jordan OK, here is the first problem and a patch for it. Several people have already reported it. Suppose, you have an *EMPTY* /usr/local/lib. (This is the usual thing, if you have installed at least one port, and you have no ports with libraries in /usr/local/lib). During the second phase of upgrade process (aout-to-elf-install), the `move_aout_libs.sh' script won't create /usr/local/lib/aout for it, because this directory has no aout libraries at all, and then Makefile.upgrade will fail on line 155 (rev 1.9.2.6), that `ldconfig could not find /usr/local/lib/aout'. Patch is attached (in two variants). Best regards, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="move_aout_libs.sh.patch" Index: move_aout_libs.sh =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/FreeBSD-CVS/src/tools/tools/upgrade/move_aout_libs.sh,v retrieving revision 1.2.2.1 diff -u -r1.2.2.1 move_aout_libs.sh --- move_aout_libs.sh 1999/01/26 09:15:53 1.2.2.1 +++ move_aout_libs.sh 1999/01/29 16:55:23 @@ -111,8 +111,9 @@ do # Make sure the directory exists, or ldconfig will choke later. if test ! -d $dir; then - mkdir -p $dir $dir/aout + mkdir -p $dir fi + mkdir -p $dir/aout echo "Searching library directory $dir for a.out libraries..." # Get a list of archive libraries. --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="move_aout_libs.sh.patch2" Index: move_aout_libs.sh =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/FreeBSD-CVS/src/tools/tools/upgrade/move_aout_libs.sh,v retrieving revision 1.2.2.1 diff -u -r1.2.2.1 move_aout_libs.sh --- move_aout_libs.sh 1999/01/26 09:15:53 1.2.2.1 +++ move_aout_libs.sh 1999/01/29 17:23:25 @@ -110,9 +110,8 @@ for dir in $libdirs do # Make sure the directory exists, or ldconfig will choke later. - if test ! -d $dir; then - mkdir -p $dir $dir/aout - fi + mkdir -p $dir $dir/aout + echo "Searching library directory $dir for a.out libraries..." # Get a list of archive libraries. --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 09:31:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14809 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:31:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14803 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:31:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA16100; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdA16092; Fri Jan 29 17:27:24 1999 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:27:17 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Kris Kennaway cc: Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates on / In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kirk has responded and said that I was wrong.. The code to do what I suggested was never completed. julian On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > The eventual aim is to never use NON softupdates mode.. > > The system is not supposed to bonb with "filesystem full" when there are > > uncommitted delete operations on the softupdates queues. > > if it does, then there is a bug. It's suposed to kick off some faster > > reconciliation and hang around for a bit. > > Unless I'm mistaking you, this is in fact what happens: > > [morden|root] 21:34 ~ df > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on > /dev/wd0s2a 32254 21244 8430 72% / > /dev/wd0s2f 596286 534890 13694 98% /usr > /dev/wd1s3e 496367 456461 197 100% /usr2 > /dev/wd1s3f 396895 360004 5140 99% /home > /dev/wd0s2e 29727 7705 19644 28% /var > /dev/wd0s1 872640 848720 23920 97% /c > /dev/wd1s1 1023824 942256 81568 92% /d > /dev/wd1s5 511760 486472 25288 95% /e > procfs 4 4 0 100% /proc > mfs:31 20598 16 18936 0% /tmp > localhost:/ 0 0 0 100% /crypt > > [morden|root] 21:34 ~ pwd > /home/kkenn > [morden|root] 21:34 ~ mount > ... > /dev/wd1s3f on /home (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 1123 async 11409) > [morden|root] 21:34 ~ dd if=/dev/zero of=bigfile bs=1024k count=20 > 20+0 records in > 20+0 records out > 20971520 bytes transferred in 11.454656 secs (1830829 bytes/sec) > [morden|root] 21:34 ~ df > > ... > > /dev/wd1s3f 396895 382092 -16948 105% /home > > [morden|root] 21:34 ~ rm bigfile > > [In another window, as a regular user] > > [morden|kkenn] 21:35 ~ cp /etc/motd . > > /home: write failed, file system is full > cp: ./motd: No space left on device > > This persists for 30 seconds exactly, until the clock expires and the > space is reclaimed. Given the state of fullness of my partitions, I run into > this quite frequently. I had always assumed it was just the way things were > with soft-updates. > > Kris > > ----- > (ASP) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) announced today that the release of its > productivity suite, Office 2000, will be delayed until the first quarter > of 1901. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 10:52:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24956 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ice.cold.org (cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24930 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:52:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brandon@ice.cold.org) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by ice.cold.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA26195; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:51:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990129115122.A25989@cold.org> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:51:22 -0700 From: Brandon Gillespie To: Robert Withrow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <36B1739E.1A22A983@urc.ac.ru> <199901291406.JAA27108@spooky.rwwa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-md5; boundary="HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199901291406.JAA27108@spooky.rwwa.com>; from Robert Withrow on Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 09:06:19AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.roguetrader.com/~brandon/brandon@roguetrader_com.pubkey Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 09:06:19AM -0500, Robert Withrow wrote: >=20 > joy@urc.ac.ru said: > :- I prefer to see all variables WITH their values (read "system > :- configuration") in the one file. >=20 > BSD plusses: All configuration variables are in one place. >=20 > BSD minuses: Relationships between installed components is hard-coded > in the rc files by the placement of code. >=20 > SYSV plusses: It is much more modular. >=20 > SYSV minuses: Configuration variables are scattered across the many > confugration scripts. Which is the core of what my issues are. I agree with all of the above, and we are pretty much suggesting the same thing--with slight variances on specific implementations. What I suggest is /etc/rc.conf, exactly as it is now--but playing a role more akin to a defaults file, with local overriding files in /etc/rc.conf.d. In actuality nothing is stopping somebody from simply ignoring /etc/rc.conf.d, and just changing rc.conf. The main gist I was trying to convey, however, was that the functionality (actual code, instead of variable definitions) of rc and rc.* is split out by behaviour. This alone is *ALREADY HAPPENING*--like I suggested, look at /etc/rc.*. I belive this to be a natural evolution of what people want (otherwise why not just put _everything_ in /etc/rc?) Following the idea of just modularizing the executable part of /etc/rc*, there are two options: 1) make Yet Another Standard, or=20 2. follow an existing and widely accepted standard, at least loosely. I believe 2. to be the better option, and thus suggested putting the scripts in /sbin/init.d and /sbin/rc.d (symlinked to init.d). Furthermore, as I stated in the web page the scripts *should not be changed* The only role they play is _order_. Whether something runs or not is managed by the config script. Because of this the admin should really _never_ have to touch the symlinks (unless they are making something new). And to address the issue of configuration variables scattered across various files. Imho this is an ADVANTAGE. One problem with the unified script is variables become scattered about. When somebody adds a new functionality to the rc system, they often just tack the defining variables onto the end of rc.conf. So when you go to configure things you go to the area for what you are doing, and you don't notice the new functionality. By breaking out into files it forces proper grouping. As for new admins having a hard time--comeon, it isn't THAT hard :) The variables are still stored seperately from the code. And if it is that hard for them, they would likely be using sysinstall (or some other app) to configure things anyway. > 1) a packages boot-time configuration script is packaged in a seperate fi= le > and placed in an init.d directory, as in the SYSV system. These scripts, > however, define shell functions with conventional names, instead of being > a case statment as in SYSV. Each file would contain: So instead of calling the script with an argument, it instead sources the script into the current execution environment and calls a function? Dunno... what advantages does it have over simply calling a sub script with arguments defining its behaviour? I do like the dependancy and register parts, however. -Brandon --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use MessageID: AY3cXCnus8fmnaNJ/g5IZ17DyXPABdRL iQA/AwUBNrIDKkv5XoQiMgn6EQLcjQCgzq9KBt0/sGPunx4PxEYO75hDrn4AoOZB 1L9VpBkHa1jbcH975JGzuTxy =ntHG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 11:12:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27293 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:12:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-36.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27249; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:12:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00429; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:09:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:09:38 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/scripts dokern.sh In-Reply-To: <19990129091412.D27372@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > With 'controller pnp0' included in the config? Yes. > > Or does sio only accept certian card IDs? > > If your card include the compatibility ID for serial ports, it should > work. If it doesn't - well, it isn't claiming to be some type of > serial port, so there isn't that much we can do about it. Actually I took a peek, and figured out that the PnP stuff checks for a handfull of modems (mostly USR and a few Supra), none of which I own. So I added what appeared to be the vendor id (??) and it recognizes it in the PnP probe. CSN 2 Vendor ID: CRD0001 [0x0100440e] Serial 0x00416288 Comp ID: @@@0000 [0x0000 0000] sio1: type 16550A sio1 (siopnp sn 0x00416288) at 0x3e8-0x3ef irq 3 on isa >From what I can tell the code is _not_ checking for everything and anything claiming to be a serial port. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 11:32:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29687 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:32:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.volant.org (phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29677 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:32:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from patl@phoenix.volant.org) From: patl@phoenix.volant.org Received: from asimov.phoenix.volant.org ([205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org with smtp (Exim 1.92 #8) id 106JeP-0002Ny-00; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:32:21 -0800 Received: from localhost by asimov.phoenix.volant.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA12905; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:32:13 -0800 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:32:12 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: patl@phoenix.volant.org Subject: Re: USB drivers To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901290322.UAA15376@usr07.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This is probably more appropriate to -hardware, but... > > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > the world is a USB port? > > It looks like there are about 100 different monitors that do USB > now, and with a keyboard and a mouse and a disk and an ADSL modem > all hung off of USB... > > Anyway, Amancio says he'd prefer FireWire for the monitor (at it's > slowest, FW can transfer 68 Mbits/S more a second than PCI!), but > of course he's a video geek. 8-). > > So maybe a box with just a power connector, a FW port and a USB hub > chip (to seperate the "A" and "B" devices). If you are talking about external connections, I think the Apple iMac only has power, USB, and audio-out connectors. (I don't know what they use for the internal devices; but I would suspect it's pretty standard PCI with IDE/ATAPI, etc.) Of course, the iMac does have one big problem - there's no PowerPC port of FreeBSD... -Pat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 13:55:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18250 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:55:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from singularity.enigami.com (singularity.enigami.com [208.140.182.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18236 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:55:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ckempf@singularity.enigami.com) Received: (from ckempf@localhost) by singularity.enigami.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id QAA22422; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:55:21 -0500 (EST) To: Tony Finch , FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers References: <36ADD73B.1F2DAA38@softweyr.com> From: Cory Kempf Date: 29 Jan 1999 16:55:21 -0500 In-Reply-To: Tony Finch's message of "Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:59:36 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 37 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FWIW: http://wearables.stanford.edu/ http://www.research.digital.com/wrl/itsy/index.html IIRC, they are not USB, but they could well be. (for those not interested in looking, two references to palmtop linux boxes) Tony Finch writes: > Terry Lambert wrote: > > > >Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > >the world is a USB port? > > It'd be rather crippled with only 12Mbit/s of IO. Really? Ethernet 10 Mb/s. Modems <56kb/s. T1 1.54Mb/s. Put a web server on the box, a T1, and a USB disk drive, and it should still be able to saturate the T1. And that is assuming only one USB port. Some of us wish we HAD a T1 to saturate. +C -- Thinking of purchasing RAM from the Chip Merchant? Please read this first: Cory Kempf Macintosh / Unix Consulting & Software Development ckempf@enigami.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 17:10:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17023 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:10:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17008 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:10:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA10586 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:10:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:10:29 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun1 Reply-To: zhihuizhang To: hackers Subject: interrupt unit number or clockframe? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the assembly interrupt interface stub (see vector.s), the unit number of an interrupt is pushed onto the stack before the stub calls the corresponding interrupt handler written in C: pushl _intr_unit + (irq_num) * 4 ... call * _intr_handler + (irq_num) * 4 So a C interrupt handler should expect a unit number as its argument. But why we have the following statement in clock.c where we expect an address of a clockframe? static void clkintr(struct clockframe frame); What is more, the above interrupt handler is registered with the following statement: register_intr(0,0,0,(inthand2_t)clkintr,&clk_imask,0); The unit number given is zero. So the frame's address will be zero and yet we use it in the clkintr() anyway (see hardclock() called by it). I hope someone can help me out. Thanks a lot. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 17:33:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21242 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:33:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from midget.dons.net.au (daniel.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21224 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:33:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darius@dons.net.au) Received: from guppy.dons.net.au (guppy.dons.net.au [203.31.81.9]) by midget.dons.net.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA01682 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:03:44 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from darius@dons.net.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:02:44 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel J. O'Connor" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Dying demons bug still in 3.0-STABLE? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I just upgraded a box from 3.0 from a while back (ie pre ELF) to 3.0-STABLE and now I am getting the dying demons bug :-/ This just happens in my inetd so far. Help! :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 18:38:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29483 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:38:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29478 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:38:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA00890; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma000883; Fri, 29 Jan 99 18:36:55 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA05047; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:36:54 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901300236.SAA05047@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Dying demons bug still in 3.0-STABLE? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel J. O'Connor" at "Jan 30, 98 12:02:44 pm" To: darius@dons.net.au (Daniel J. O'Connor) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:36:54 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daniel J. O'Connor writes: > I just upgraded a box from 3.0 from a while back (ie pre ELF) to 3.0-STABLE and > now I am getting the dying demons bug :-/ > This just happens in my inetd so far. > Help! :) Hmm.. just curious.. What happens if you compile and run a 4.0-current kernel (which includes Matt's VM fixes)? -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 18:57:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01604 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:57:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [208.221.12.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01599 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:57:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23943; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:56:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901300256.SAA23943@implode.root.com> To: "Daniel J. O'Connor" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dying demons bug still in 3.0-STABLE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:02:44 +1030." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:56:44 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I just upgraded a box from 3.0 from a while back (ie pre ELF) to 3.0-STABLE and >now I am getting the dying demons bug :-/ >This just happens in my inetd so far. The problem with inetd is a seperate one from the dying daemons bug. FYI... -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 19:35:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05638 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:35:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05632 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:35:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13815; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd013733; Fri Jan 29 20:34:48 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA21544; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:34:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901300334.UAA21544@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 03:34:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, wes@softweyr.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Jan 29, 99 09:51:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > > the world is a USB port? > > SGI just started selling them. What are they called? I just finished searching their site with no luck... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 19:48:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07291 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:48:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07286 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:48:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18132; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:48:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd018093; Fri Jan 29 20:47:58 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA22080; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:47:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901300347.UAA22080@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: patl@phoenix.volant.org Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 03:47:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "patl@phoenix.volant.org" at Jan 29, 99 11:32:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > So maybe a box with just a power connector, a FW port and a USB hub > > chip (to seperate the "A" and "B" devices). > > If you are talking about external connections, I think the Apple iMac > only has power, USB, and audio-out connectors. (I don't know what they > use for the internal devices; but I would suspect it's pretty standard > PCI with IDE/ATAPI, etc.) > > Of course, the iMac does have one big problem - there's no PowerPC > port of FreeBSD... It also has a nasty IDE interface, a nasty modem, a nasty ethernet port, a nasty ATI graphics chip, a nasty sound chip. So even if you bought a bare motherboard, you'd end up with all this useless, expensive crap nailed to it. If I needed any of that, I'd buy a USB or a firewire version, and plug in whatever I needed (and _only_ whatever I needed). I guess I could tolerate an SSD (solid state disk) socket... you never know when you could use 78M of disk with PicoBSD on it. Besides which, I'm pretty sure the motherboard is bigger than ``2.7" by 1.7" by .25" for a volume of about a cubic inch'' http://wearables.stanford.edu/ 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 19:49:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07538 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:49:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07532 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:49:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4030.ime.net [209.90.195.40]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id WAA77612; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:47:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990129224523.00c76d80@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:47:39 -0500 To: Terry Lambert , dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, wes@softweyr.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au In-Reply-To: <199901300334.UAA21544@usr05.primenet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:34 PM 1/29/99 , Terry Lambert wrote: >> > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to >> > the world is a USB port? >> >> SGI just started selling them. > >What are they called? I just finished searching their site with >no luck... If I remember right the IMAC is only USB for devices. The keyboard/mouse is still an Apple Desktop Bus job though. That's probably the closest thing I've seen that's 'on the market'. Course, it's a Mac... But I will say that because of it we've seen a lot more USB hardware on the market. IOmega probably wouldn'tve put together a USB ZIP otherwise. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 20:09:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09797 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:09:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09787 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:09:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4030.ime.net [209.90.195.40]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id XAA77632; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:09:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990129225730.00c70670@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:09:00 -0500 To: Terry Lambert , patl@phoenix.volant.org From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901300347.UAA22080@usr05.primenet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:47 PM 1/29/99 , Terry Lambert wrote: >> > So maybe a box with just a power connector, a FW port and a USB hub >> > chip (to seperate the "A" and "B" devices). >> >> If you are talking about external connections, I think the Apple iMac >> only has power, USB, and audio-out connectors. (I don't know what they >> use for the internal devices; but I would suspect it's pretty standard >> PCI with IDE/ATAPI, etc.) >> >> Of course, the iMac does have one big problem - there's no PowerPC >> port of FreeBSD... > >It also has a nasty IDE interface, a nasty modem, a nasty ethernet >port, a nasty ATI graphics chip, a nasty sound chip. I wouldn't go as far to say that the ATI Graphics chip is crap.. The ATI Onboard for the Motorola Starmax was relatively decent. It's questionable if this is the same chipset they use on the IMac, but I've found that the embeddeds are just about the same. Give Mac credit somewhere though. Unfortunately no port of FreeBSD for PPC (yet..?) but at least you'd only have to have device drivers for the integrated hardware to start. After all, it's all the same between machines. >So even if you bought a bare motherboard, you'd end up with all >this useless, expensive crap nailed to it. Anything having to do with Mac is "useless expensive crap" :-) But they sell them cheap to K12's, so people buy into it still. To the point that my delusional High School Advanced Placement CompSci teacher bought 14 various "H3" Macintoshes. >If I needed any of that, I'd buy a USB or a firewire version, and >plug in whatever I needed (and _only_ whatever I needed). Yeah, but 999 bucks for those iMacs, they're selling like hotcakes.. People like a bunch of stuff in one little place, I guess. I wouldn't hesistate to put a Mac on running FreeBSD if the port was available. I will say that I found the RS/6000's to be relatively fast, and the ones I used had a PowerPC 601. As it goes I have a Mac sitting around that's a 603e, but I refuse to run Linux on it.. >I guess I could tolerate an SSD (solid state disk) socket... you >never know when you could use 78M of disk with PicoBSD on it. > > >Besides which, I'm pretty sure the motherboard is bigger than > > ``2.7" by 1.7" by .25" for a volume of about a cubic inch'' > > http://wearables.stanford.edu/ > >8-). I gotta get me one of them boards.. I'd imagine it'd fit into a basic hobby case from Digikey pretty easily. What I've always wondered is there are a few 'wearable' sites around, but none of them seem to have content on PC's you can actually physically 'wear' on a wrist or otherwise. I don't see my Velo (or a palmpilot) going on my wrist. Although, Seiko has developed the Ruputer (http://www.ruputer.com) which I must say, it a very intriguing design.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 21:16:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14440 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:16:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-48.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14435 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:16:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA68603; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:10:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:09:44 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Terry Lambert cc: Doug Rabson , wes@softweyr.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <199901300334.UAA21544@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > > > the world is a USB port? > > > > SGI just started selling them. > > What are they called? I just finished searching their site with > no luck... They're called the SGI Visual Workstations (IIRC), poke around slashdot if you're truely interested. However, I think that USB keyboards/mice were mentioned on some www.linux.sgi.com page dealing with Linux and the bastardized SGI box. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 21:21:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14989 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:21:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atl.bellsouth.net (mail.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14969 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:21:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (root@host-209-214-73-152.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.73.152]) by mail.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27513; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:21:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA16637; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:38:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: dufault@hda.com Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: real time kernel In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:23:46 -0500 (EST)" <199901291523.KAA14926@hda.hda.com> References: <199901291523.KAA14926@hda.hda.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990130003829E.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:38:29 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 44 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Peter Dufault Subject: Re: real time kernel Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:23:46 -0500 (EST) > > Does anyone know of a real time version of FreeBSD (or a romable version)? > > If not FreeBSD then one of the other *BSDs? > > PicoBSD? > > It's not realtime, though. Right, but it doesn't really have the run-time characteristics of a full Unix system either. It is very useful for quite a few things needing very stable and fast performance near "real-time". An OS for hard real-time applications? Have a look at RTEMS 4.0 (http://www.oarcorp.com). You'll find FreeBSD code in the networking support. We've also been using BTX/BootForth for starting RTEMS applications. BootForth seems like it will be useful for diagnostic routines, while having PicoBSD in flash as an alternate boot offers useful possibilities for remote maintenance and updating. All three together are a win for our x86-based embedded computing needs. Of course, FreeBSD is an excellent development host and operations support system for all of this :-) Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net > > Peter > > -- > Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, > HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 29 22:03:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17894 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:03:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.volant.org (phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17885 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:03:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from patl@phoenix.volant.org) From: patl@phoenix.volant.org Received: from asimov.phoenix.volant.org ([205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org with smtp (Exim 1.92 #8) id 106TVP-0007au-00; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:03:43 -0800 Received: from localhost by asimov.phoenix.volant.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA13090; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:03:39 -0800 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:03:39 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: patl@phoenix.volant.org Subject: Re: USB drivers To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901300347.UAA22080@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > So maybe a box with just a power connector, a FW port and a USB hub > > > chip (to seperate the "A" and "B" devices). > > > > If you are talking about external connections, I think the Apple iMac > > only has power, USB, and audio-out connectors. (I don't know what they > > use for the internal devices; but I would suspect it's pretty standard > > PCI with IDE/ATAPI, etc.) > > > > Of course, the iMac does have one big problem - there's no PowerPC > > port of FreeBSD... > > It also has a nasty IDE interface, a nasty modem, a nasty ethernet > port, a nasty ATI graphics chip, a nasty sound chip. Ok, so you're NOT talking about just external connections. I couldn't tell from you original posting. > So even if you bought a bare motherboard, you'd end up with all > this useless, expensive crap nailed to it. Somehow I suspect that it's still cheaper than USB or FireWire versions. After all, IDE is basicly still alive because it's cheaper than SCSI. > If I needed any of that, I'd buy a USB or a firewire version, and > plug in whatever I needed (and _only_ whatever I needed). > > I guess I could tolerate an SSD (solid state disk) socket... you > never know when you could use 78M of disk with PicoBSD on it. > > > Besides which, I'm pretty sure the motherboard is bigger than > > ``2.7" by 1.7" by .25" for a volume of about a cubic inch'' > > http://wearables.stanford.edu/ Yep, this falls into the class of machines where USB and/or FireWire would be an excellent choice. But then, this is also the sort of application where you're paying a significant bonus for small size and reduced parts count. But your original posting sounded like you were proposing a general- purpose desktop or notebook machine which only offered power, USB, and FireWire as external connectors. For that you'd need to be much closer to price/performance parity with more traditional designs. -Pat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 01:29:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA05395 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 01:29:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA05388 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 01:29:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 29050 invoked from network); 30 Jan 1999 09:29:35 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 1999 09:29:35 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA59052; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:29:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901300929.EAA59052@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901290215.TAA10882@usr07.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 29, 99 02:14:59 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:29:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert said: > > Throttling fork rate is also a valuable tool, and maybe a hard limit > > is good also. It is all about how creative you are (or want to be) > > in your solution :-). > > I wonder about an explicit yield being a result of your standard > fork(2) call invocation... the more processes in read-to-run, the > longer you get to wait before your next fork... > If one did that, it would be wise idea to only do the yield when it would be profitable. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 01:36:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA06310 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 01:36:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA06305 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 01:36:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA16289; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:39:41 GMT Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:39:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Terry Lambert cc: wes@softweyr.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <199901300334.UAA21544@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > > > the world is a USB port? > > > > SGI just started selling them. > > What are they called? I just finished searching their site with > no luck... Perhaps you looked too hard. Their new NT workstation is what I was referring to. It is quite an interesting beast. No traditional 16bit firmware but uses ARC style firmware similar to the old mips NT boxes and modern alpha boxes. All input peripherals are USB I think. I got most of this from reading some notes on how to get Linux running on the beast but unfortunately I don't have a link handy. I was following links from Slashdot at the time. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 02:03:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA08362 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 02:03:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08350 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 02:03:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id TAA25084; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:03:30 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B2CD01.69CFEFA8@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:12:33 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brandon Gillespie CC: Robert Withrow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <36B1739E.1A22A983@urc.ac.ru> <199901291406.JAA27108@spooky.rwwa.com> <19990129115122.A25989@cold.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brandon Gillespie wrote: > > Following the idea of just modularizing the executable part of > /etc/rc*, there are two options: 1) make Yet Another Standard, or > 2. follow an existing and widely accepted standard, at least loosely. > > I believe 2. to be the better option, and thus suggested putting the > scripts in /sbin/init.d and /sbin/rc.d (symlinked to init.d). > Furthermore, as I stated in the web page the scripts *should not be > changed* The only role they play is _order_. Whether something runs > or not is managed by the config script. Because of this the admin > should really _never_ have to touch the symlinks (unless they are > making something new). SYSV way is confusing. More than that, SYSV is a *hack*. While it may do whatever it was supposed to do, it's deficiencies make clear that it was, at best, a good first try. I don't see why we have to stick to a hack just because it was the first implementation tried. FreeBSD's way is good, though it simply does not try to solve some of the problems SYSV way tries to. If we are going to change the *GOOD WAY* we do things now, we better change to *ANOTHER GOOD WAY*. SYSV way is, thus, not acceptable. > I do like the dependancy and register parts, however. The problem with dependencies is that you need to build a graph, so you know how to shutdown a service, while correctly shuting down everything that depended on it (which the service is most likely to *not* know -- take, for instance, the networking stack). -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 06:00:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA26033 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:00:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kryten.nina.org (PP090.gator.net [199.78.178.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA26025 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:00:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from frankd@gator.net) Received: from localhost (frankd@localhost) by Kryten.nina.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA11778 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:59:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from frankd@gator.net) X-Authentication-Warning: Kryten.nina.org: frankd owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:59:46 -0500 (EST) From: Frank Seltzer X-Sender: frankd@Kryten.nina.org Reply-To: Frank Seltzer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ppp hangs using PAP Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My ISP switched to PAP several days ago and ppp now hangs ~ once a day. The modem is on hook, ppp is in Ss according to ps and no errors appear in the log file. Power cycling the modem does not help. This is using 3.0-RELEASE with GENERIC kernel. Before the switch to PAP this machine had been running as my modem server without problems for months. Here is my ppp.conf file: default: set log Phase Chat LCP IPCP CCP tun command set device /dev/cuaa0 set speed 115200 set redial 2 set dial "ABORT BUSY ABORT NO\\sCARRIER TIMEOUT 5 \"\" AT OK-AT-OK ATZ OK \\dATDT\\T TIMEOUT 40 CONNECT" gator: set phone xxxxxxx set login set authname * set authkey * set timeout 0 set ifaddr 10.0.0.2/0 199.78.176.7/0 255.255.255.0 0.0.0.0 delete ALL add default HISADDR enable dns Any help would be greatly appreciated. Frank -- Only in America can a homeless veteran sleep in a cardboard box while a draft dodger sleeps in the White House - anonymous To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 06:43:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA29497 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:43:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from servo.ccr.org (servo.ccr.org [198.3.0.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA29492 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:43:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mo@servo.ccr.org) Received: (from mo@localhost) by servo.ccr.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id JAA07001 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:43:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mo) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:43:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Mike O'Dell" Message-Id: <199901301443.JAA07001@servo.ccr.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: alternative /etc/rc* structures.... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i would suggest examining the structure in RedHat 5.2 there is a SysV-style structure with single place where all the "per subsystem" configuration state lives, *mostly*. the network config stuff isn't well integrated, but the other stuff seems reasonably so. to my mind, the happy medium lies somewhere between the current thing and the RedHat model. while i at first didn't like "run levels", in fact, FreeBSD has a more sophisticated notion in that there is kernel support for various security implications. but being able to turn XDM on and off with a simple command to switch the run-level is very, very nice. and the fact the system shuts things down in a somewhat more orderly fashion is a nice feature as well. for what it's worth -mo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 07:14:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02153 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:14:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from acer.spvi.com (acer.spvi.com [208.150.70.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02145; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:14:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@acer.spvi.com) Received: (from steve@localhost) by acer.spvi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05625; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:14:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:14:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901301514.KAA05625@acer.spvi.com> From: Steve Spicklemire To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG CC: steve@acer.spvi.com Subject: Problem with libc_r ?? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello FreeBSD Developers, I've got a problem with threads on FreeBSD-2.2.8-STABLE. I run python a lot on a variety of different hardware/OS combinations. Over the holidays I cvsup'd 2.2.8 and tested it on one machine. Everything seemed OK.. so I upgraded two others. (I still have one system running 2.2.7.) I then noticed that some cron jobs were not finishing. I've narrowed it down to two, somehow related symptoms. All of the scripts are run on the Python interpreter (python 1.5.1 or 1.5.2b1 show same results). Any workarounds would be appreciated. For now I have built a thread-disabled interpreter for cron stuff, and thread-enabled for everything else. So long as I don't explicitly need threads in my cron jobs.. this will work. This is just the sort of thing that is a pain in the neck to maintain though. ;-) Here are the clues: 1) If threading is enabled the problem occurs. If threading is disabled the problem does not occur. I'm guessing that this means that it lies in the threaded runtime system, but I don't know the details of all that well enough to speak intelligently about it ( note that I speak about it anyway. ;-> ) 2) If more than one call is made to 'system' or 'popen' the second call hangs. The first call seems to execute properly. All of these scripts work fine, thread-enabled or not, from the command line. And none of this occurs with 2.2.7. Below I've cooked up a simple test: crontab: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * * * * * /usr/local/bin/python /home/steve/it.py >> /home/steve/it.log 2>&1 & it.py: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- import os os.system('touch /home/steve/one.txt') os.system('touch /home/steve/two.txt') ---------------------------------------------------------------------- When the job runs I get a 'one.txt', but no 'two.txt' in my home directory. It's especially important to notice that I'm not explicitly using threads in this script. Also, the python thread module itself passes its diagnostic test when run from the command line or from cron. The process left hanging is always stuck in: # gdb /usr/local/bin/python 5578 GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.16 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1996 Free Software Foundation, Inc... /usr/home/steve/5578: No such file or directory. Attaching to program `/usr/local/bin/python', process 5578 Reading symbols from /usr/libexec/ld.so...done. Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libc_r.so.3.0...done. Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libm.so.2.0...done. Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libc.so.3.1...done. 0x2008f741 in _thread_sys_select () (gdb) It's not just a question of jobs being in the background... I tried: python it.py & and it worked fine... it's something about cron that doesn't work with threads and multiple subprocesses. What can I do to further track this down? thanks, -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 09:04:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11434 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:04:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11429 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:04:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA01347 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:04:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:04:15 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Correct way to write a thread-safe library Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So here I am, chugging away at a library I'm writing, and I notice that the spec requires me to report errors via errno. I immediatly recall a long discussion of errno changes a long time ago and macro definitions of it. So my question is this--what is the correct way for me to write a thread-safe library that can be used by threaded and non-threaded code, and that also uses errno to report errors? Is there a way? Do I just use it or should I be having two versions of my library, a libwhatever and a libwhatever_r? Thanks in advance.. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 09:08:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12046 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:08:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12040 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:08:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06268; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:06:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36B33C2B.CDB07CCB@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:06:51 -0700 From: Wes =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peters=D4?==?iso-8859-1?Q?=40=21=EA?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=80?==?iso-8859-1?Q?=EA?==?iso-8859-1?Q?=80=DD=E7?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=805=EA?==?iso-8859-1?Q?=C0?==?iso-8859-1?Q?=EA?= Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" CC: Brandon Gillespie , Robert Withrow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <36B1739E.1A22A983@urc.ac.ru> <199901291406.JAA27108@spooky.rwwa.com> <19990129115122.A25989@cold.org> <36B2CD01.69CFEFA8@newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: > > Brandon Gillespie wrote: > > > > Following the idea of just modularizing the executable part of > > /etc/rc*, there are two options: 1) make Yet Another Standard, or > > 2. follow an existing and widely accepted standard, at least loosely. > > > > I believe 2. to be the better option, and thus suggested putting the > > scripts in /sbin/init.d and /sbin/rc.d (symlinked to init.d). > > Furthermore, as I stated in the web page the scripts *should not be > > changed* The only role they play is _order_. Whether something runs > > or not is managed by the config script. Because of this the admin > > should really _never_ have to touch the symlinks (unless they are > > making something new). > > SYSV way is confusing. More than that, SYSV is a *hack*. While it > may do whatever it was supposed to do, it's deficiencies make clear > that it was, at best, a good first try. I don't see why we have to > stick to a hack just because it was the first implementation tried. The idea of ordering the startup and shutdown is a good one, but the way it was solved in SYSV is really goofy. Good ole USL strikes again. ;^) > FreeBSD's way is good, though it simply does not try to solve some > of the problems SYSV way tries to. If we are going to change the > *GOOD WAY* we do things now, we better change to *ANOTHER GOOD WAY*. > SYSV way is, thus, not acceptable. Agreed. If we're going to hack this, we should hack it better, not just different. I like the idea of modularizing the different parts of the rc files so you can re-run just one, or shutdown and startup up subsystems all by themselves. > > I do like the dependancy and register parts, however. > > The problem with dependencies is that you need to build a graph, so > you know how to shutdown a service, while correctly shuting down > everything that depended on it (which the service is most likely to > *not* know -- take, for instance, the networking stack). And wouldn't you know it, we already have a tool for managing dependency graphs. ;^) How about a Makefile, with "startup" and "shutdown" targets, and individual "start" and "stop" targets for each subsystem? The configuration settings would remain in rc.conf and rc.conf.local, where they belong, and each "subsystem" startup moved to an individual script. /etc/rc would bring the system up just far enough for make to function, and then cd /etc; make startup. You could start a particular subsystem, or shut it down, with i.e. "make start.nfsserver" or "make stop.nfsserver". Good? Bad? Indifferent? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 09:09:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12156 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:09:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dragon.ham.muohio.edu (dragon.ham.muohio.edu [134.53.147.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12151 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:09:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by dragon.ham.muohio.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12145 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:26:01 -0500 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:26:01 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Howard To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: socketpair(2) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG After a couple years playing with FreeBSD, having written simple programs, network programs, shared libraries, etc, I figured it was time I tackle my greatest fear: a kernel feature. Since I have need of socketpair(2) supporting PF_INET, it seemed like a logical place to try this out. So I went through the code (as near as I understood it) and got it to find and execute a function called tcp_usr_connect2...this then calls tcp_connect2 (following the "standard"). So my kernel compiles and boots, but when I make a call to socketpair() with PF_INET, it freaks out, displays some debugging information, and reboots. It isn't pretty, to say the least. So the kernel has defeated me. My question is, how can I find out what is going wrong inside there? What should I have and do when I try to modify the kernel? Any suggestions from any other novice kernel hackers out there? Thanks, Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 09:38:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15506 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:38:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (nomad.dataplex.net [208.2.87.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15496 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:38:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA40225; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:38:06 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:38:06 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Wackerbarth To: wes@softweyr.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: <36B33C2B.CDB07CCB@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Re: Using "make" to control the startup sequence. I thought of this some time ago and, although it seems simple, rejected the idea in this form. Many of the systems that I use would not be able to utilize such a mechanism because they don't have "make" installed. Further, there is a lot that needs to get done before you get to the point that "make" will run. However, I still hold out for the possibility that we could use "make" to generate a static list based on the configuration. This list would then be ready for the next reboot. We could even have a knob that prunes the static list at the point where "make" can take over and do things dynamically. IMHO, the scheme should be able to be aborted at any point and restarted with the same or a different target. On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Wes wrote: > And wouldn't you know it, we already have a tool for managing > dependency graphs. ;^) > > How about a Makefile, with "startup" and "shutdown" targets, and > individual "start" and "stop" targets for each subsystem? The > configuration settings would remain in rc.conf and rc.conf.local, > where they belong, and each "subsystem" startup moved to an > individual script. /etc/rc would bring the system up just far > enough for make to function, and then cd /etc; make startup. You > could start a particular subsystem, or shut it down, with i.e. > "make start.nfsserver" or "make stop.nfsserver". > > Good? Bad? Indifferent? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 09:46:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16415 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:46:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16407 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:46:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03171; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:48:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199901301748.MAA03171@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: wes@softweyr.com cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Brandon Gillespie , Robert Withrow , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:06:51 MST." <36B33C2B.CDB07CCB@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:48:37 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Regarding using Make for startup: wes@softweyr.com said: :- Good? Bad? Indifferent? I'd say: more complicated than the job requires. We have a *simpler* tool for managing graphs: tsort(1). If you go back to the process I suggested, you need only tsort the dependencies and save it in /var/run. It is then available for use to stop selected components. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 09:46:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16462 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:46:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from singularity.enigami.com (singularity.enigami.com [208.140.182.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16434 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:46:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ckempf@singularity.enigami.com) Received: (from ckempf@localhost) by singularity.enigami.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id MAA31405; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:46:28 -0500 (EST) To: Jamie Howard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: socketpair(2) References: From: Cory Kempf Date: 30 Jan 1999 12:46:28 -0500 In-Reply-To: Jamie Howard's message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:26:01 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jamie Howard writes: > Since I have need of socketpair(2) supporting PF_INET, it seemed like a > logical place to try this out. socketpair(2) only works with unix domain sockets, not inet domain sockets. It is a hack to allow the creation of pair of connected sockets. This is only useful when both client and server live on the same machine. If you want internet domain sockets, you will need to go throught the socket/bind/connect/listen/accept mechanism. See the BUGS section of the man page. +C -- Thinking of purchasing RAM from the Chip Merchant? Please read this first: Cory Kempf Macintosh / Unix Consulting & Software Development ckempf@enigami.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 10:53:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24345 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:53:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles119.castles.com [208.214.165.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24334; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:53:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01025; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:49:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901301849.KAA01025@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, phk@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "warning: malloc wrapped" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:53:44 +0100." <199901290853.JAA12795@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:49:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > while loading a rather large PicoBSD image (leaving only some > 50KB free on a 1.44MB floppy; the in-kernel fs size is 2400KB) i > get the following message: > > Booting 0:fd(0,a)kernel @ 0x333000 > text=0x138000 data=0x0 bss=0xa00 symbols=[+0x600+0x4+0x270+0x4+0x1e2] > total=0x46c45a entry point=0x333000 > Uncompressing kernel...warning: malloc wrapped > done > Booting the kernel > > (this is on 2.2.X, the image is a.out format, and i see it on both > an 8MB and a 128MB machine.) > > I am concerned by the "malloc wrapped" message -- what is exactly > happening, and can i fix it in some way ? I haven't seen any problem so > far but it might just be that it corrupts some pieces of code/mfs that > i have not used yet. The malloc() pretender in the kzip code just increments a pointer around a small ring. When the pointer gets back to the beginning of the ring, you get that message; it means that a newly allocated region may overlap one that was allocated before. This is one of the reasons that kzip must die. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 10:54:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24492 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:54:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu (friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu [129.186.185.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24487 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:54:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu (localhost.res.iastate.edu [127.0.0.1]) by friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA33995; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:53:52 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199901301853.MAA33995@friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Robert Withrow cc: wes@softweyr.com, "Daniel C. Sobral" , Brandon Gillespie , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:48:37 EST." <199901301748.MAA03171@spooky.rwwa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:53:51 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Regarding using Make for startup: > >wes@softweyr.com said: >:- Good? Bad? Indifferent? > >I'd say: more complicated than the job requires. We have a *simpler* >tool for managing graphs: tsort(1). > >If you go back to the process I suggested, you need only tsort the >dependencies and save it in /var/run. It is then available for use >to stop selected components. A while back, Eivind posted a set of rc scripts that used tsort. It seemed like a really nice system, although it did not implement the the analagous shutdown mechanism. Has any progress been made on this? Anyways, the url was http://www.freebsd.org/~eivind/newrc.tar.gz. Chris Csanady To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 11:10:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26542 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:10:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dragon.ham.muohio.edu (dragon.ham.muohio.edu [134.53.147.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26536 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:10:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by dragon.ham.muohio.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA12394; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:26:46 -0500 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:26:46 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Howard To: Cory Kempf cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: socketpair(2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 30 Jan 1999, Cory Kempf wrote: > socketpair(2) only works with unix domain sockets, not inet domain sockets. > It is a hack to allow the creation of pair of connected sockets. This is only > useful when both client and server live on the same machine. If you want > internet domain sockets, you will need to go throught the > socket/bind/connect/listen/accept mechanism. Right, but it seems as though a UNIX domain socket will allow a process to read off the socket that which it has just written, when bidirectional, correct? (Or am I doing something wrong?) It would be nice if two connected processes could send data back and forth without reading off their own output, and a TCP connection implements this. (I think this is similar to a channel under Plan 9/Alef, but I do not know for certain due to lack of access.) Have I missed something here? Additionally, this is something of a learning experience, to an extent, it doesn't matter how usefull the function is, the more important issue is can I implement it without screwing up too badly? :) Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 11:19:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:19:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zoe.iserve.net (zoe.iserve.net [207.250.219.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27645 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:19:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rch@iserve.net) Received: from acidic (acidic.iserve.net [207.250.219.40]) by zoe.iserve.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA00767 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:18:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901301918.OAA00767@zoe.iserve.net> X-Sender: rch@iserve.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:20:00 -0500 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Robert Hough Subject: pwd.db corruption Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm running a machine with FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE and about 4 times now, the pwd.db file has become corrupt. When this happens, it wont authenticate anyone, and I have to reboot into single user mode, remove the pwd.db (rename it to pwd.old basically), and add a new user. After a reboot, it is fine, untill it happens again. Can someone give me some pointers on how to correct this problem? Is it a known bug in 2.2.2? I've already decided to upgrade the machine to later build, but that will be on a completely new machine, untill then I'd like to at least make sure this doesn't pop up on me again, or worse, when I'm not around to fix it. -Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 11:19:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27878 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:19:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cis.ohio-state.edu (mail.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.115.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27698; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:19:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmcurtin@cis.ohio-state.edu) Received: from gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (gold.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.112.16]) by cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00141; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:19:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA17567; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:19:25 -0500 (EST) To: Frank Seltzer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ppp hangs using PAP References: From: Matt Curtin Date: 30 Jan 1999 14:19:24 -0500 In-Reply-To: Frank Seltzer's message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:59:46 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [moved to questions] [Snipped story about PPP staying up for days at a time until a change at the ISP that uses PAP authentication, after which PPP hangs up routinely.] I have experienced the idential situation here, with an older release of FreeBSD (2.1.5-R). I (incorrectly?) blamed the situation on my infinitely competent ISP. I'm curious to know what's happening, but don't consider the problem to be much in the way of a crisis. -- Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 13:26:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16031 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:26:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16026 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:26:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA11034; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:25:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901302125.NAA11034@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Drew Baxter Cc: Terry Lambert , dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson), wes@softweyr.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: USB drivers Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:25:06 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:47:39 -0500 Drew Baxter wrote: > If I remember right the IMAC is only USB for devices. The keyboard/mouse > is still an Apple Desktop Bus job though. That's probably the closest > thing I've seen that's 'on the market'. No, keyboard and mouse are also USB. I think the audio might be USB, too. -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 13:28:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16333 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:28:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16328 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:28:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA11099; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:28:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901302128.NAA11099@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Drew Baxter Cc: Terry Lambert , patl@phoenix.volant.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:28:00 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:09:00 -0500 Drew Baxter wrote: > I wouldn't hesistate to put a Mac on running FreeBSD if the port was > available. I will say that I found the RS/6000's to be relatively fast, > and the ones I used had a PowerPC 601. As it goes I have a Mac sitting > around that's a 603e, but I refuse to run Linux on it.. You could always run NetBSD on your iMac :-) -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 13:40:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18365 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:40:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.dcos.mipt.ru (gw.dcos.mipt.ru [193.125.143.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18057 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:39:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lesha@mos.net) Received: from (mail@localhost) by gw.dcos.mipt.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8/spamctl/akk-180698) with ESMTP id AAA00796 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:40:40 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from lesha@mos.net) Received: from thunder.NNET.org (root@thunder.fddi.nnet.org [192.168.8.2]) by noc.nnet.org (8.8.8/8.8.8-R1.1-lesha) with ESMTP id AAA00685 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:36:21 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from lesha@mos.net) Received: from mos.net (lesha@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thunder.NNET.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA06453 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:36:00 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from lesha@mos.net) Message-ID: <36B37B40.D7D3DF00@mos.net> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:36:00 +0300 From: Alexei Khalimov Organization: MOSnet - Moscow Residental InterNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: COM_CONSOLE always ON? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello! I'm running 2.2.8-R on my router machine without video card. The problem is that FreeBSD _always_ tries to use sio0 as system console, which makes my modem to behave really weird. I recall something called COM_CONSOLE in 2.2.5 or prior versions, but browsing through LINT, I haven't found it there. So I wonder how console selection machanism changed in 2.2.8? And can machine run without any "system console" at all? -- Alexei Khalimov * AK1015 * lesha@mos.net Moscow Residental InterNet +7 (095) 946-2114 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 13:40:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18417 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:40:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18405 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:40:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA09714 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:40:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:40:36 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun1 To: hackers Subject: Re: interrupt unit number or clockframe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > static void clkintr(struct clockframe frame); > I should have noticed that the above statement is different from the following statement: static void clkintr(struct clockframe * frame); Since we do not use asterisk in the source code, the C handler can be passed an entire structure instead of an address of a structure. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 13:48:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19369 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:48:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19360 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:48:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA09503; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:48:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma009501; Sat, 30 Jan 99 13:47:42 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA10813; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:47:42 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901302147.NAA10813@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: socketpair(2) In-Reply-To: from Jamie Howard at "Jan 30, 99 12:26:01 pm" To: howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu (Jamie Howard) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:47:42 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jamie Howard writes: > My question is, how can I find out what is going wrong inside there? What > should I have and do when I try to modify the kernel? Any suggestions > from any other novice kernel hackers out there? Without commenting on the wisdom of your idea (others can do that), one thing that's definitely helpful when modifying the kernel is to get a remote GDB session going. This lets you run GDB in its full glory on the kernel. You can single step, list files, etc. Check out the FreeBSD handbook for how to do this. You need two machines to do this of course. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 13:51:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19604 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:51:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19595 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:51:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04206; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd004184; Sat Jan 30 14:50:59 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20323; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:50:54 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901302150.OAA20323@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: patl@phoenix.volant.org Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:50:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "patl@phoenix.volant.org" at Jan 29, 99 10:03:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > So even if you bought a bare motherboard, you'd end up with all > > this useless, expensive crap nailed to it. > > Somehow I suspect that it's still cheaper than USB or FireWire versions. > After all, IDE is basicly still alive because it's cheaper than SCSI. No, IDE is cheaper than SCSI because of volume. The point isn't that USB peripherals aren't more expensive. The point is that I don't *need* all of them, so if I dike out the stuff I don't need, and don't pay to put it back as a USB device, then my overall cost drops. For example, would you buy a PC with a floppy drive today, given a choice? The standard install media is CDROM, not floppy. You have to actually call/send for floppies if you don't want CDROM. So... why are you paying for a floppy controller? Or would you buy a brand new machine with 4 ISA slots you're never going to use? Any ISA slots at all? Then why pay for the interface silicon, the support circuitry, the PC board realestate, the BIOS code, and the card edge connectors? [ ... at this point, someone with a very old card and no intention to buy a new system instead of a motherboard for a piecemeal upgrade of their hardware jumps in to defend ISA ... ] > > http://wearables.stanford.edu/ > > Yep, this falls into the class of machines where USB and/or FireWire > would be an excellent choice. But then, this is also the sort of > application where you're paying a significant bonus for small size > and reduced parts count. Oh yeah, less parts, that's something to charge for. The failure rates on production runs must be *astronomical* with only 14 things to suface mount to the board. Just think if there were only two things to hook to the board, the second of which was a USB port for a hub-powered computer. The thing could never work, with only two things to go wrong, instead of 1500. ;-). > But your original posting sounded like you were proposing a general- > purpose desktop or notebook machine which only offered power, USB, and > FireWire as external connectors. For that you'd need to be much closer > to price/performance parity with more traditional designs. Well, I think the trend is USB keyboards and mice. You might have an argument with video, but the Panasonic USB monitors are very cheap. The argument you would have would be about graphics bandwidth (and that goes away with FireWire, which is much fater than PCI). So at best, that *is* a general purpose desktop (or notebook core), and at worst, you've got a nce headless server. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 13:57:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20137 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:57:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20125 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:57:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05681; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:57:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd005647; Sat Jan 30 14:57:23 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20635; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:57:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901302157.OAA20635@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:57:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, wes@softweyr.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Jan 30, 99 09:39:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > > > > the world is a USB port? > > > > > > SGI just started selling them. > > > > What are they called? I just finished searching their site with > > no luck... > > Perhaps you looked too hard. Their new NT workstation is what I was > referring to. It is quite an interesting beast. No traditional 16bit > firmware but uses ARC style firmware similar to the old mips NT boxes and > modern alpha boxes. All input peripherals are USB I think. Ah. I saw that. They want too much money. Check out: http://www.darter.com.tw/products/cpucard.html If you were willing to go with the previous generation of the hardware Stanford used, and be a bit larger (like the size to bolt to a 3.5" hard drive, then you can get the previous generation of the hardware for $299 (instead of $499). Of course, that includes video, instead of something useful like 10/100 or even more useful like USB/1394... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 13:59:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20550 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:59:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20540 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:59:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4024.ime.net [209.90.195.34]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id QAA81668; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:58:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990130165432.03d5deb0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:58:42 -0500 To: Jason Thorpe From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: Terry Lambert , dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson), wes@softweyr.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au In-Reply-To: <199901302125.NAA11034@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 04:25 PM 1/30/99 , Jason Thorpe wrote: >On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:47:39 -0500 > Drew Baxter wrote: > > > If I remember right the IMAC is only USB for devices. The keyboard/mouse > > is still an Apple Desktop Bus job though. That's probably the closest > > thing I've seen that's 'on the market'. > >No, keyboard and mouse are also USB. I think the audio might be USB, too. Stand corrected :) Explains why Belkin suddenly makes/distributes USB Keyboards and Mice as well. What's sick is Microsofts new Speaker system, it supports 'digital audio' via USB. Thing is, not Win95 Compatible, let alone anything else. Requires Win98, otherwise it's analog via standard input. I'm shocked at the amount of stuff that has instantly appeared in USB because of the existance of the thing though. I may not be a Mac fan (even though I used to own one, blah blah), but this is a plus for the PC market who has had USB support in some form for several years.. (I have a rather old Biostar Pentium-Class Mainboard that has USB support on it..) There's some things I just plain don't want to see on USB. My Intel camera with the BT848 card is better than the USB Intel Camera, for one. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 14:00:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20885 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:00:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20875 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:00:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4024.ime.net [209.90.195.34]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id RAA81678; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:00:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990130165850.03d64530@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:59:55 -0500 To: Jason Thorpe From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: Terry Lambert , patl@phoenix.volant.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901302128.NAA11099@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 04:28 PM 1/30/99 , Jason Thorpe wrote: >On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:09:00 -0500 > Drew Baxter wrote: > > > I wouldn't hesistate to put a Mac on running FreeBSD if the port was > > available. I will say that I found the RS/6000's to be relatively fast, > > and the ones I used had a PowerPC 601. As it goes I have a Mac sitting > > around that's a 603e, but I refuse to run Linux on it.. > >You could always run NetBSD on your iMac :-) Don't have an iMac :) I wouldn't but an iMac to run UNIX either, I'd just get a PowerMac G3 (PowerPC 750-based) job. It's unfortunate FreeBSD does not have a PPC port (not even in the works I don't think), because I'd imagine it'd perform rather well. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 14:12:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23386 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:12:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23374 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:12:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA26515; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:12:38 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA45434; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:12:37 +0100 (MET) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:12:37 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Chris Csanady Cc: Robert Withrow , wes@softweyr.com, "Daniel C. Sobral" , Brandon Gillespie , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... Message-ID: <19990130231236.A44499@bitbox.follo.net> References: <199901301748.MAA03171@spooky.rwwa.com> <199901301853.MAA33995@friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199901301853.MAA33995@friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu>; from Chris Csanady on Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 12:53:51PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 12:53:51PM -0600, Chris Csanady wrote: > > >Regarding using Make for startup: > > > >wes@softweyr.com said: > >:- Good? Bad? Indifferent? > > > >I'd say: more complicated than the job requires. We have a *simpler* > >tool for managing graphs: tsort(1). > > > >If you go back to the process I suggested, you need only tsort the > >dependencies and save it in /var/run. It is then available for use > >to stop selected components. > > A while back, Eivind posted a set of rc scripts that used tsort. It > seemed like a really nice system, although it did not implement the > the analagous shutdown mechanism. Has any progress been made on this? No. There seemed to be four different people that were working on it, and there was too much noise in all different directions for me to prioritize it (besides a couple of other personal priorities). The stuff referenced below was just intended as an example of how something like this could be made to work, as someone else (Nik Clayton , I believe) was working on a split. I just wanted to show that there were better ways of controlling order than just listing it explicitly in a file. > Anyways, the url was http://www.freebsd.org/~eivind/newrc.tar.gz. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 14:17:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24234 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:17:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24225 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:17:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id QAA13588; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:17:32 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199901302217.QAA13588@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <199901302150.OAA20323@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 30, 1999 9:50:52 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:17:32 -0600 (CST) Cc: patl@phoenix.volant.org, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The point isn't that USB peripherals aren't more expensive. The > point is that I don't *need* all of them, so if I dike out the > stuff I don't need, and don't pay to put it back as a USB device, > then my overall cost drops. > > For example, would you buy a PC with a floppy drive today, given > a choice? The standard install media is CDROM, not floppy. You > have to actually call/send for floppies if you don't want CDROM. > > So... why are you paying for a floppy controller? > > Or would you buy a brand new machine with 4 ISA slots you're never > going to use? Any ISA slots at all? Then why pay for the interface > silicon, the support circuitry, the PC board realestate, the BIOS > code, and the card edge connectors? > Actually, no it doesn't. If you can make one massive IO chip with a floppy controller, USB controller and everything everyone else wants, the increased volume will make it cheaper than making two parts, one with Floppy/USB and one without. We're going through this now, trying to cost save on a custom motherboard. Very few people make IO chips with just the features we want, and those that do, only make them for low-pincount configurations, and charge a premium for them, because the volume isn't there. The cost for running two production lines, extra fabs, and just the overhead of having more than one SKU isn't worth it for most manufacturers. And if you think the extra gates/cells in an asic are actually costing you more for a floppy controller..? :) It also would cost us more to get a motherboard without them stuffing the USB port connector on it. The connector costs like $.15, but the costs for making a different run, different model number, etc, far exceed that, unless you're buying hundreds of thousands. So.. In some cases, if all you want is an ISA/PCI bridge, you're better off buying an ISA/PCI bridge that also has IDE, Floppy, Serial, Parallel, USB, and a bunch of other stuff, because everyone wants those features, so you can sneak in and buy a chip with high volume because it's cheap. Kevin "More serial ports than i can ever use" Day To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 15:33:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05058 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:33:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05053 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:33:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09930; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:33:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd009827; Sat Jan 30 16:33:32 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24304; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:33:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901302333.QAA24304@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: toasty@home.dragondata.com (Kevin Day) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:33:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, patl@phoenix.volant.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901302217.QAA13588@home.dragondata.com> from "Kevin Day" at Jan 30, 99 04:17:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The cost for running two production lines, extra fabs, and just the overhead > of having more than one SKU isn't worth it for most manufacturers. Going to FAB on an ASIC is ~$30k; if you intend any volume at all, then you can afford an ASIC very easily. > It also would cost us more to get a motherboard without them stuffing the > USB port connector on it. The connector costs like $.15, but the costs for > making a different run, different model number, etc, far exceed that, unless > you're buying hundreds of thousands. Right; if that's all you were diking out... > So.. In some cases, if all you want is an ISA/PCI bridge, you're better off > buying an ISA/PCI bridge that also has IDE, Floppy, Serial, Parallel, USB, > and a bunch of other stuff, because everyone wants those features, so you > can sneak in and buy a chip with high volume because it's cheap. Right, but if you're looking at no PCI, no ISA, just USB, you could easily use one of the chips they use in mice cameras, or whatever, with a tiny amount of glue. It shouldn't even take an ASIC at all to make it go. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 15:37:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05545 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:37:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05540 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:37:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05648; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:37:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd005609; Sat Jan 30 16:37:13 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24443; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:37:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901302337.QAA24443@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: tony@dell.com (Tony Overfield) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:37:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990129020703.007cdec0@bugs.us.dell.com> from "Tony Overfield" at Jan 29, 99 02:07:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >It looks like there are about 100 different monitors that do USB > >now, > > Those monitors have USB for controls and for "convenience" hubs, > but the video itself doesn't go over the USB. That's disappointing. I guess we will have to wait for FireWire; talking FireWire to a video chip and memory in a monitor is faster than talking PCI to a card in your computer. Wait... it looks like SGI has a FireWire flat panel... > >So maybe a box with just a power connector, a FW port and a USB hub > >chip (to seperate the "A" and "B" devices). > > > >Maybe I should send this to Tony over at dell... 8-). > > Don't worry, we already have plenty of marketing types that > think up stuff like that all too often. ;-) So, got any engineering prototypes you want to unload for cheap? I'm in the market for a FreeBSD box to beat the Linux small web server record. Maybe a web server on a tie-tack... 8^). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 15:47:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06698 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:47:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06684 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:47:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08024; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:47:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd007986; Sat Jan 30 16:47:02 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24966; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:46:45 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901302346.QAA24966@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: select and threads again To: ks@itp.ac.ru (Sergey S. Kosyakov) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:46:45 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Sergey S. Kosyakov" at Jan 29, 99 04:59:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Finally I found why select hangs. In multithread mode ILU uses pipe() > for "communicational channel" between threads. So each select actually is > waiting on two FD - first is the socket and second is the pipe. I don't know > why in that situation select hangs forever. If I force select to wait only on > single socket, then it works. I guess there are still some restrictions for > select in multithread environment. The real non-libc_r wrapped select is supposed to be called by the wrapping select using a zero valued timeval struct (effecting a "poll") when there are other threads ready to run. When all threads are blocked pending I/O on fd's, then a real select is called on all of the fd's on which I/O is pending with a NULL pointer instead of a zero valued timeval struct. This makes the select hang until I/O is available on one or more of the fd's. If you are getting a blocking select, then the only possible cause is that the scheduler believes that there are no other threads in a read-to-run state, and therefore makes the blocking call instead of call converting it to a polling call which, if not input is pending, is followed by a threads context switch. Perhaps you are both read and write selecting the pipe fd, in two seperate threads? In general, write selecting is a bad idea. This may be a problem in the pipe code, or in the wrapping function in libc_r (unlikely). You could try using a POSIX domain socket instead of a pipe; it uses the same underlying code (man socketpair). If this also hangs, try using a real socket (AF_INET instead of AF_UNIX). Also, make sure you are not using fork(), since it interacts badly with threads. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 16:07:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10060 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:07:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10045 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:07:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25942; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd025898; Sat Jan 30 17:06:55 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA25943; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:06:47 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901310006.RAA25943@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: dot@dotat.at (Tony Finch) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:06:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tony Finch" at Jan 29, 99 02:59:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > >the world is a USB port? > > It'd be rather crippled with only 12Mbit/s of IO. Beats ethernet... > >Anyway, Amancio says he'd prefer FireWire for the monitor (at it's > >slowest, FW can transfer 68 Mbits/S more a second than PCI!), but > >of course he's a video geek. 8-). > > I think you have your bits and bytes mixed up :-) Firewire starts out > at 100Mbit/s (or at least it did when I first heard about it in 1994) > and PCI starts at 132Mbyte/s. IIRC Firewire was designed to be > extended to 800Mbit/s which doesn't get very near PCI's minimum. Feh. You're right. Mea Culpa (and the maximum is 400Mbits/S). On the plus side, the PCI number you have is a burst rate, and not sustainable for something like a video frame rate. > For good video you need 3Gbit/s to the tube (1600*1200, 72Hz, 24 bpp). That's assuming you are drawing the raster line over the serial wire. What you should do instead is send S3/ATI/whatever commands to a chipset in the monitor case, running the raster out of dual ported RAM based on what the engine has been told to render. This is less useful for, say, throwing BT848 input to a monitor, but you'd expect that video hardware would use the computer as a peripheral instead of the other way around (i.e., you're video-in-to-video-out would ignore the computer, for the most part, if you are trying to move all of the pixels in sync with an input source, as opposed to generating the pixels computationally. > >So maybe a box with just a power connector, a FW port and a USB hub > >chip (to seperate the "A" and "B" devices). > > That would be cool. And I guess the ability to pull an Amiga and use a section of main memory as video memory, with a memory bus connector, instead of on-board video hardware. Too bad about the video bandwidth requirements that the gamers are forcing onto us server geeks... 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 16:20:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12068 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:20:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12056 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:20:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20889; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd020879; Sat Jan 30 17:20:11 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA26553; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:20:10 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901310020.RAA26553@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com (Drew Baxter) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:20:10 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, patl@phoenix.volant.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990129225730.00c70670@genesis.ispace.com> from "Drew Baxter" at Jan 29, 99 11:09:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >It also has a nasty IDE interface, a nasty modem, a nasty ethernet > >port, a nasty ATI graphics chip, a nasty sound chip. > > I wouldn't go as far to say that the ATI Graphics chip is crap.. The ATI > Onboard for the Motorola Starmax was relatively decent. It's questionable > if this is the same chipset they use on the IMac, but I've found that the > embeddeds are just about the same. Any graphics on board is too much graphics on board, was kind of the point. > I wouldn't hesistate to put a Mac on running FreeBSD if the port was > available. I will say that I found the RS/6000's to be relatively fast, > and the ones I used had a PowerPC 601. As it goes I have a Mac sitting > around that's a 603e, but I refuse to run Linux on it.. Apparently, NetBSD will netboot on the thing. I don't know if there's enough hardware documentation to do anything else. If the IDE drive were up, and you could actually get something on the console, I'd be driving down to Fry's right now instead of typing this. 8-). > Although, Seiko has developed the Ruputer (http://www.ruputer.com) which I > must say, it a very intriguing design.. Very, very nifty. Very nifty. If you had one, you'd out-geek the rest of us for sure... anyone else have a wristwatch with 4M of RAM? http://www.ruputer.com/product/index.html 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 16:29:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12891 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:29:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12885 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:29:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4024.ime.net [209.90.195.34]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id TAA81789; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:29:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990130192426.0351a240@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:29:11 -0500 To: Terry Lambert From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, patl@phoenix.volant.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901310020.RAA26553@usr04.primenet.com> References: <4.1.19990129225730.00c70670@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 07:20 PM 1/30/99 , Terry Lambert wrote: > >Any graphics on board is too much graphics on board, was kind of >the point. > Yeah I spose. What I hated was the onboard video that uses your system memory. Was working in a P-O-S Trigem (Classically known as a 'commercial generic' (i.e. CTX International)) the other day that was like that. My FreeBSD server has a 2mb STB in it.. But it's there because it was all I had on hand at the time... What really bugs me is my PII boards seem to require a video card.. What probably bugs me more is the fact that the PS/2 ports are inactive if I unplug the keyboard/mouse and try to insert one while the machine is still active. I guess something from PI Engineering can fix this problem though by leaving the ports active so I can hot swap. >Apparently, NetBSD will netboot on the thing. I don't know if there's >enough hardware documentation to do anything else. If the IDE drive >were up, and you could actually get something on the console, I'd be >driving down to Fry's right now instead of typing this. 8-). Hehe.. I have a Powerbook 5300CS up the street that the owner may give me if I ask. It has a PPC 603E as well with 48/750. It's IDE as well. It would be an interesting project, although it is rumored that MKLinux won't even run on it because it lacks 'open firmware'. >Very, very nifty. Very nifty. If you had one, you'd out-geek the >rest of us for sure... anyone else have a wristwatch with 4M of RAM? I want a Seiko Kinetic watch.. So I saw this thing. Course I've got my own geek watch in a way. It's a Casio Databank 200 touch-screen. It gets some rather bizarre stares. I'm in Maine though, so people think it's bizarre I have a laptop and a palmtop on me during school. It's like "So I can play my Nintendo Emulator, mmm k?" The laptop DOES run FreeBSD, barely. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 16:30:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13423 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:30:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13407 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:30:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23152; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:30:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd023133; Sat Jan 30 17:30:51 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA26908; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:30:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901310030.RAA26908@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? To: dyson@iquest.net Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:30:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901300929.EAA59052@y.dyson.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jan 30, 99 04:29:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Throttling fork rate is also a valuable tool, and maybe a hard limit > > > is good also. It is all about how creative you are (or want to be) > > > in your solution :-). > > > > I wonder about an explicit yield being a result of your standard > > fork(2) call invocation... the more processes in read-to-run, the > > longer you get to wait before your next fork... > > If one did that, it would be wise idea to only do the yield when > it would be profitable. Do you mean "only when someone is actually waiting to run", or do you mean "as defined by the results of some as yet undefined profitability calculation"? I think if the penalty for a fork were that you went to the end of the run queue, that would be a Good Thing(tm). Also, remember that after the fork, your child is ready-to-run. So if you explicitly yeilded, the worst case is that your child runs before you run again. It would be a lot more interesting a penalty under a fair share or credential agregate quantum (one John vs. one Terry vs. one Matt) scheduler... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 16:41:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14232 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:41:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14227 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:41:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03790; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:41:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd003748; Sat Jan 30 17:41:03 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA27222; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:41:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901310041.RAA27222@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: pwd.db corruption To: rch@iserve.net (Robert Hough) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:41:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901301918.OAA00767@zoe.iserve.net> from "Robert Hough" at Jan 30, 99 02:20:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm running a machine with FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE and about 4 times now, the > pwd.db file has become corrupt. When this happens, it wont authenticate > anyone, and I have to reboot into single user mode, remove the pwd.db > (rename it to pwd.old basically), and add a new user. After a reboot, it is > fine, untill it happens again. Can someone give me some pointers on how to > correct this problem? Is it a known bug in 2.2.2? I've already decided to > upgrade the machine to later build, but that will be on a completely new > machine, untill then I'd like to at least make sure this doesn't pop up on > me again, or worse, when I'm not around to fix it. This is a known bug, having to do with the reclaim of mmap'ed pages and their reuse before they have been disaaciated from all of the objects that reference them. The problem is exacerbated by cron, which modifies the return values in the read-only pages pointed to by the static struct passwd that's passed back (they point into the entries in the passwd database). After the COW fault on the pages, they tend to get written back after a reclaim. I most frequently see this as a corrupt crontab; it really depends on what's running and what file is having pages thrashed in and out of core. Upgrading to 4.0-current appears to fix this. There are a number of bugs in 3.0 that aren't in the 3.0-stable branch; a shirt tail relative of this bug os one of them. The 4.0 fixes that haven't been back-ported to 3.0-STABLE are probably enough, at this point, to justify using 4.0. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 16:48:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15225 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:48:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15220 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:48:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27931; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:47:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd027906; Sat Jan 30 17:47:52 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA27396; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:47:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901310047.RAA27396@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: socketpair(2) To: howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu (Jamie Howard) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:47:42 +0000 (GMT) Cc: ckempf@enigami.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jamie Howard" at Jan 30, 99 02:26:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Right, but it seems as though a UNIX domain socket will allow a process to > read off the socket that which it has just written, when bidirectional, > correct? (Or am I doing something wrong?) Use two socketpair's. > It would be nice if two connected processes could send data back and > forth without reading off their own output, and a TCP connection > implements this. (I think this is similar to a channel under Plan 9/Alef, > but I do not know for certain due to lack of access.) Depending on these semantics is bad, even if you make it work in your particular kernel. > Have I missed something here? Your best bet would be to bind to 127.0.0.1, and use the standard bind/list/accept/connect to get real sockets over the loopback interface. If you had a dire need, you could name the function that encapsulated the whole process "socketpair". Since the connect won't complete until the accept, you will need to fork a child to call connect. If you were moderately insane, you'd set up a socketpair(2) to pass the descriptor back to the parent, and then make the child exit so that it looked like a single process function with a lump in it. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 17:09:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17309 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:09:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA17298 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 19177 invoked from network); 31 Jan 1999 01:09:10 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 1999 01:09:10 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA60804; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:09:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901310109.UAA60804@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: High Load cron patches - comments? In-Reply-To: <199901310030.RAA26908@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 31, 99 00:30:47 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:09:08 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, tlambert@primenet.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, wes@softweyr.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert said: > > > > Throttling fork rate is also a valuable tool, and maybe a hard limit > > > > is good also. It is all about how creative you are (or want to be) > > > > in your solution :-). > > > > > > I wonder about an explicit yield being a result of your standard > > > fork(2) call invocation... the more processes in read-to-run, the > > > longer you get to wait before your next fork... > > > > If one did that, it would be wise idea to only do the yield when > > it would be profitable. > > Do you mean "only when someone is actually waiting to run", or do > you mean "as defined by the results of some as yet undefined > profitability calculation"? > Maybe yes to both or either. I did experiment with that, with indeterminate results (except hurting low level latency experiments.) I didn't (about 2yrs ago) have enough info to move further, and was working on other things. It would be an interesting investigation. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 18:37:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24918 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:37:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bugs.us.dell.com (bugs.us.dell.com [143.166.169.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24908 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:37:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Received: from moth (moth.us.dell.com [143.166.169.152]) by bugs.us.dell.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA11981; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:37:44 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990130203603.0086aec0@bugs.us.dell.com> X-Sender: tony@bugs.us.dell.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:36:03 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Tony Overfield Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901302337.QAA24443@usr04.primenet.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990129020703.007cdec0@bugs.us.dell.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:37 PM 1/30/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >It looks like there are about 100 different monitors that do USB >> >now, >> >> Those monitors have USB for controls and for "convenience" hubs, >> but the video itself doesn't go over the USB. > >That's disappointing. I guess we will have to wait for FireWire; >talking FireWire to a video chip and memory in a monitor is faster >than talking PCI to a card in your computer. It sure wasn't the last time I checked.... >Wait... it looks like SGI has a FireWire flat panel... Hmm, I haven't seen that, but I've seen this: ;-) http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/1999/january/flatpanel.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 18:37:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24927 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:37:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bugs.us.dell.com (bugs.us.dell.com [143.166.169.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24912 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:37:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Received: from moth (moth.us.dell.com [143.166.169.152]) by bugs.us.dell.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA11984; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:37:49 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990130203742.008c5b90@bugs.us.dell.com> X-Sender: tony@bugs.us.dell.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:37:42 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Tony Overfield Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901310020.RAA26553@usr04.primenet.com> References: <4.1.19990129225730.00c70670@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:20 AM 1/31/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >Very, very nifty. Very nifty. If you had one, you'd out-geek the >rest of us for sure... anyone else have a wristwatch with 4M of RAM? > > http://www.ruputer.com/product/index.html For those of us who can't read that, try this: http://ruputer.com/english/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 21:15:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10907 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:15:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10902 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:15:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id VAA94603; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:15:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:15:06 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199901310515.VAA94603@apollo.backplane.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: rch@iserve.net (Robert Hough), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pwd.db corruption References: <199901310041.RAA27222@usr04.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> I'm running a machine with FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE and about 4 times now, the :> pwd.db file has become corrupt. When this happens, it wont authenticate :> anyone, and I have to reboot into single user mode, remove the pwd.db :> (rename it to pwd.old basically), and add a new user. After a reboot, it is :... : :This is a known bug, having to do with the reclaim of mmap'ed pages :and their reuse before they have been disaaciated from all of the :objects that reference them. : :The problem is exacerbated by cron, which modifies the return values :in the read-only pages pointed to by the static struct passwd that's :passed back (they point into the entries in the passwd database). :After the COW fault on the pages, they tend to get written back after :a reclaim. : :I most frequently see this as a corrupt crontab; it really depends :on what's running and what file is having pages thrashed in and out :of core. : :Upgrading to 4.0-current appears to fix this. : :There are a number of bugs in 3.0 that aren't in the 3.0-stable :branch; a shirt tail relative of this bug os one of them. : :The 4.0 fixes that haven't been back-ported to 3.0-STABLE are :probably enough, at this point, to justify using 4.0. : : : Terry Lambert : terry@lambert.org Hmm. If you recall the general area of the bug fix related to this problem I can research it. *All* VM bugs fixed in 4.x should have already been backported to 3.x, but a few sometimes get missed ( e.g. like that NFS corruption bug fix ). Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 21:26:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12167 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:26:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from singularity.enigami.com (singularity.enigami.com [208.140.182.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12162 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:26:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ckempf@singularity.enigami.com) Received: (from ckempf@localhost) by singularity.enigami.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id AAA34554; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:26:31 -0500 (EST) To: Drew Baxter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers References: <4.1.19990130165850.03d64530@genesis.ispace.com> From: Cory Kempf Date: 31 Jan 1999 00:26:31 -0500 In-Reply-To: Drew Baxter's message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:59:55 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 27 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Drew Baxter writes: > At 04:28 PM 1/30/99 , Jason Thorpe wrote: > It's unfortunate FreeBSD does > not have a PPC port (not even in the works I don't think), because I'd > imagine it'd perform rather well. Not sure I can agree about the performance, however, Apple's MacOS X Server (that name *REALLY* sucks... I see it and keep thinking of an X server), their marketting department's new name for Rhapsody, is essentially 4.4 BSD on top of a Mach microkernel. Apple is supposed to be working with the various BSD folk, and swapping some code back and forth. I think they are currently taking orders on their web site. Tennon has MachTen, which is also a BSD port to PowerMac. +C -- Thinking of purchasing RAM from the Chip Merchant? Please read this first: Cory Kempf Macintosh / Unix Consulting & Software Development ckempf@enigami.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 22:49:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20019 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:49:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20012 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:49:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA00618; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:48:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... From: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: <199901301748.MAA03171@spooky.rwwa.com> Message-ID: <000342b3e1d2fb49_mailit@obie.softweyr.com> References: <199901301748.MAA03171@spooky.rwwa.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:48:05 -0700 X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 2.0 X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: witr@rwwa.com Cc: dcs@newsguy.com, brandon@roguetrader.com, witr@rwwa.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Withrow alleged: >Regarding using Make for startup: > >wes@softweyr.com said: >:- Good? Bad? Indifferent? > >I'd say: more complicated than the job requires. We have a *simpler* >tool for managing graphs: tsort(1). > >If you go back to the process I suggested, you need only tsort the >dependencies and save it in /var/run. It is then available for use >to stop selected components. OK, I took a few minutes to RTFM. Yes, I can see how tsort could be brought to bear on this issue. Do you propose to put the dependencies in the rc scripts, in some grepabble fashion? I suppose if you added or changed something, you would need to re-run tsort before doing another start or stop operation, right? This seems doable, and an improvement over what we have, and what SYSV has. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 23:37:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24168 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:37:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24162 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:37:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (ppp-111-17.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.111.17]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA27816 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 02:37:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B407F7.1617E743@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 02:36:23 -0500 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: fr, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: some weird C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is not really.. for hackers@freebsd.org, but I cannot find the answer anywhere. main() { int x=4; printf("The value of x is %d\n",x); printf("The value of \"x += x++\" is %d\n",x += x++); x=4; printf("The value of x is %d\n",x); printf("The value of \"x += ++x\" is %d\n",x += ++x); } The results are: The value of x is 4 The value of "x += x++" is 8 The value of x is 4 The value of "x += ++x" is 10 I was expecting 9, not 10. since 4+5=9? Why 10? I also noticed that cc is reading from right to left. Cool. Thank You -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] [French piss me off - Cartman, South Park][http://9.nws.net/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 23:44:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24805 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:44:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24800 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:44:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id BAA20866; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:44:11 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199901310744.BAA20866@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: some weird C In-Reply-To: <36B407F7.1617E743@aei.ca> from Malartre at "Jan 31, 1999 2:36:23 am" To: malartre@aei.ca (Malartre) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:44:10 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This is not really.. for hackers@freebsd.org, but I cannot find the > answer anywhere. > main() > { > int x=4; > printf("The value of x is %d\n",x); > printf("The value of \"x += x++\" is %d\n",x += x++); > x=4; > printf("The value of x is %d\n",x); > printf("The value of \"x += ++x\" is %d\n",x += ++x); > } > > The results are: > > The value of x is 4 > The value of "x += x++" is 8 > The value of x is 4 > The value of "x += ++x" is 10 > > I was expecting 9, not 10. > since 4+5=9? > Why 10? > I also noticed that cc is reading from right to left. Cool. > Thank You > -- > [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] > [French piss me off - Cartman, South Park][http://9.nws.net/] > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Take a look at: http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/C-faq/faq/faq.html Section 3.2 3.2: Under my compiler, the code int i = 7; printf("%d\n", i++ * i++); prints 49. Regardless of the order of evaluation, shouldn't it print 56? A: Although the postincrement and postdecrement operators ++ and -- perform their operations after yielding the former value, the implication of "after" is often misunderstood. It is *not* guaranteed that an increment or decrement is performed immediately after giving up the previous value and before any other part of the expression is evaluated. It is merely guaranteed that the update will be performed sometime before the expression is considered "finished" (before the next "sequence point," in ANSI C's terminology; see question 3.8). In the example, the compiler chose to multiply the previous value by itself and to perform both increments afterwards. The behavior of code which contains multiple, ambiguous side effects has always been undefined. (Loosely speaking, by "multiple, ambiguous side effects" we mean any combination of ++, --, =, +=, -=, etc. in a single expression which causes the same object either to be modified twice or modified and then inspected. This is a rough definition; see question 3.8 for a precise one, and question 11.33 for the meaning of "undefined.") Don't even try to find out how your compiler implements such things (contrary to the ill-advised exercises in many C textbooks); as K&R wisely point out, "if you don't know *how* they are done on various machines, that innocence may help to protect you." References: K&R1 Sec. 2.12 p. 50; K&R2 Sec. 2.12 p. 54; ANSI Sec. 3.3; ISO Sec. 6.3; CT&P Sec. 3.7 p. 47; PCS Sec. 9.5 pp. 120-1. 3.3: I've experimented with the code int i = 3; i = i++; on several compilers. Some gave i the value 3, some gave 4, but one gave 7. I know the behavior is undefined, but how could it give 7? A: Undefined behavior means *anything* can happen. See questions 3.9 and 11.33. (Also, note that neither i++ nor ++i is the same as i+1. If you want to increment i, use i=i+1, i+=1, i++, or ++i, not some combination. See also question 3.12.) Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 23:46:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25248 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:46:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25243 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:46:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) id AAA23838; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:45:57 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199901310745.AAA23838@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: some weird C In-Reply-To: <36B407F7.1617E743@aei.ca> from Malartre at "Jan 31, 1999 2:36:23 am" To: malartre@aei.ca (Malartre) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:45:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Malartre wrote... > This is not really.. for hackers@freebsd.org, but I cannot find the > answer anywhere. > main() > { > int x=4; > printf("The value of x is %d\n",x); > printf("The value of \"x += x++\" is %d\n",x += x++); > x=4; > printf("The value of x is %d\n",x); > printf("The value of \"x += ++x\" is %d\n",x += ++x); > } > > The results are: > > The value of x is 4 > The value of "x += x++" is 8 > The value of x is 4 > The value of "x += ++x" is 10 > > I was expecting 9, not 10. > since 4+5=9? > Why 10? > I also noticed that cc is reading from right to left. Cool. See operator(7). The ++ operator is evaluated before the += operator. So, the value of x is changed to 5 by the ++ before it is added to itself. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 30 23:47:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25420 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:47:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25410 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:47:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akm@zeus.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by zeus.theinternet.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA27181; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:47:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199901310747.RAA27181@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: some weird C In-Reply-To: <36B407F7.1617E743@aei.ca> from Malartre at "Jan 31, 99 02:36:23 am" To: malartre@aei.ca (Malartre) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:47:08 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Malartre ]--------------------------------------------- | | I was expecting 9, not 10. | since 4+5=9? x is pre-incremented, making it 5 *before* the += takes effect. This is correct behaviour. -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message