From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 20 3:46:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B5DA14CC9 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 03:46:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 80746 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Jun 1999 10:54:02 -0000 Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:54:02 +0200 From: Andreas Braukmann To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP and Celerons... Message-ID: <19990620125402.Q7092@paert.tse-online.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Marc Nicholas on Sat, Jun 19, 1999 at 01:03:10PM -0400 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Sat, Jun 19, 1999 at 01:03:10PM -0400, Marc Nicholas wrote: > Hmmm...I always thought there was something "broke" inside Celerons to > prevent SMP...maybe I'm wrong? Sure would be neat if you could run them > SMP... Since ca. 2 weeks I'm steadily 'beating the hell' out of this system: Gigabyte dual slot-1 mainboard 2 x Celeron 466 MHz 128 MByte SDRAM AHA 2940 U2W 2 x IBM DDRS 9 GByte running 3.2-stable The PPGA-Celeri are mounted on S370<->Socket-1 adapter-boards with this 'magic' Celeron-SMP-Jumper. I was in need of a rather cheap SMP-play-system and an inexpensive 'software-build-server'. Yes, I know this system has a bottleneck concerning memory bandwith, but I wasn't able to get a pair of 'over-clockable' Celeri 300A. -Andreas -- : TSE TeleService GmbH : Gsf: Arne Reuter : : : Hovestrasse 14 : Andreas Braukmann : We do it with : : D-48351 Everswinkel : HRB: 1430, AG WAF : FreeBSD/SMP : :--------------------------------------------------------------------: : Anti-Spam Petition: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/ : : PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key : : Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 20 4: 6: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from radius.connectfree.net (ns1.connectfree.co.uk [212.1.130.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B712514C32 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 04:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@sleepycat.ukpeople.net) Received: from sleepycat.ukpeople.net ([212.1.149.116]) by radius.connectfree.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA05850 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:32:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 15348 invoked by uid 1002); 20 Jun 1999 09:49:20 -0000 Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:49:20 +0100 From: Timo Geusch To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: PNPifying the 'ep' driver Message-ID: <19990620104920.A15330@tabby.sleepycat.ukpeople.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I sent a similar mail to -current a while ago but by the number of responses I got i believe it was the wrong forum. Please bear with me while I go about it again. Problem: One of my FreeBSD boxes is loaded nearly to capacity with ISA and PCI cards. In order to make it work at all I had to disable some of the on-board peripherals (like IDE) and rely on PNP and PCI confiugration to sort out the remaining mess. While everything works fine(?) in "evil Bill's" comsumer OSs I have to rip out the sound card every time to make FreeBSD work. As this was not doing the MoBo or my temper any good I started to investigate why. It turns out that the problem seems to be the way that 3Com 3C509s handle PNP. Set to PNP mode, the card patiently waits for the BIOS to assign I/O and IRQ. When the ep driver does go about to query the card, it returns the cards preferred default settings, not the PNP assigned ones. Big Ouch, as the card driver suddenly waits for the Soundblaster AWE32 to trigger an interrupt so it can go about reading data from the card :-(. To the OSs creadit networking still works, albeit with a 64 sec ping roundtrip time ... Well, I dug deeper and found that the ep driver had been spared the embarrasment of being converted to the pnp framework ;-). An hours worth of hacking solved that but now I hit an impasse that I can't seem to resolve with out the card documentation. Questions: 1. I emailed 3Com support asking 'Where could I get a Technical Reference Manual for this card?'. They acknowledged that the had passed that email on internally but are obviously taking their time to answer this question. Does anyone have a contact inside 3Com that might be able to help speed up this process a bit? Or alternatively, can anyone help out with the relevant information while I wait for 3Com to come back to me? 2. From what I see so far I would have to reconfigure the card inside the driver (much like a PCMCIA card is configured on insertion). Am I breaking any unwritten rules here? I obviously want to have the changes put into the tree once everyone is satisfied that they work, so I better make sure that I don't violate any unwritten rules here. Regards, Timo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 20 7:48:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8901014BEC for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 07:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA20066; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:21:56 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199906201221.OAA20066@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: ipfilter (was: RE: Introduction) To: stan@osgroup.com Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:21:55 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <01BEBA3E.6F913AC0.stan@osgroup.com> from "Constantine Shkolny" at Jun 19, 99 10:27:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1317 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This means that IP filters need to grab some of IP packets, process > them on a specialized prosessor and then re-inject them into the IP > packet stream. That is, the filter may decide to convert the packet, > but it doesn't have it ready-to-go when it has to return. However, > it may have it ready at some later time, possibly when it processes > a hardware interrupt and sees that the co-processor has finished its > work on the packet. Can ipfilter handle this? no idea about ipfilter, but i guess not -- in the case of ipfw i did have to implement exactly this funcionality for dummynet and i ended up putting it _outside_ dummynet (i.e. in the callers routines, ip_input(), ip_output() and bdg_forward() ) . this might ease life to those who want to replace ipfw with ipfilter for dummynet or similar things, if nothing else. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 20 9: 5:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC0414C8B for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:05:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05670; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:05:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: Andreas Braukmann Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP and Celerons... In-Reply-To: <19990620125402.Q7092@paert.tse-online.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG heh, it turns out it was the motherboard.... my motherboard does dual celerons just fine... (same model, Tyan Thunder 2)..... so its time to RMA it, sorry for the question ;) ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Sun, 20 Jun 1999, Andreas Braukmann wrote: > Hi, > > On Sat, Jun 19, 1999 at 01:03:10PM -0400, Marc Nicholas wrote: > > Hmmm...I always thought there was something "broke" inside Celerons to > > prevent SMP...maybe I'm wrong? Sure would be neat if you could run them > > SMP... > Since ca. 2 weeks I'm steadily 'beating the hell' out of this > system: > Gigabyte dual slot-1 mainboard > 2 x Celeron 466 MHz > 128 MByte SDRAM > AHA 2940 U2W > 2 x IBM DDRS 9 GByte > running 3.2-stable > > The PPGA-Celeri are mounted on S370<->Socket-1 adapter-boards with > this 'magic' Celeron-SMP-Jumper. > > I was in need of a rather cheap SMP-play-system and an inexpensive > 'software-build-server'. Yes, I know this system has a bottleneck > concerning memory bandwith, but I wasn't able to get a pair of > 'over-clockable' Celeri 300A. > > -Andreas > > > -- > : TSE TeleService GmbH : Gsf: Arne Reuter : : > : Hovestrasse 14 : Andreas Braukmann : We do it with : > : D-48351 Everswinkel : HRB: 1430, AG WAF : FreeBSD/SMP : > :--------------------------------------------------------------------: > : Anti-Spam Petition: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/ : > : PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key : > : Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B : > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 20 12: 1:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from osgroup.com (unknown [38.229.41.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B56115103 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:01:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stan@osgroup.com) Received: from stan166 ([38.229.41.237]) by osgroup.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA30599 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 13:50:36 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:03:21 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEBB25.A7F332F0.stan@osgroup.com> From: Constantine Shkolny Reply-To: "stan@osgroup.com" To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: ipfilter (was: RE: Introduction) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:03:20 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, June 20, 1999 7:22 AM, Luigi Rizzo [SMTP:luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it] wrote: > > This means that IP filters need to grab some of IP packets, process > > them on a specialized prosessor and then re-inject them into the IP > > packet stream. That is, the filter may decide to convert the packet, > > but it doesn't have it ready-to-go when it has to return. However, > > it may have it ready at some later time, possibly when it processes > > a hardware interrupt and sees that the co-processor has finished its > > work on the packet. Can ipfilter handle this? > > no idea about ipfilter, but i guess not -- in the case of ipfw i > did have to implement exactly this funcionality for dummynet and i > ended up putting it _outside_ dummynet (i.e. in the callers routines, > ip_input(), ip_output() and bdg_forward() ) . > > this might ease life to those who want to replace ipfw with ipfilter > for dummynet or similar things, if nothing else. Thank you, Luigi. Could you please help me with some basics? Our IPSec product intercepts outbound IP packets and usually changes them in the way that makes them bigger. It performs the reverse operation on the inbound packet stream. I'm not quite aware of exact packet transformations, since my part of this port is to "hook" into the IP packet streams and provide the base for the main package. My first intention yesterday was to take the place of ipfilter, since IP protocol code seemingly had necessary hooks in place. I was thinking that, in ip_output(), I could just tsleep() in my filter, waiting for the co-processor to encode the packet and then wakeup() from the co-processor's ISR. (Am I right in thinking that ip_output() is always invoked during the system call and thus can sleep?) For inbound packets, tsleep() in ip_input() is not possible, so I was hoping to eat packets by placing then into an internal queue and then, in the co-processor's ISR, push them back to the IP input queue and to schedule network interrupt for IP (like net interface drivers do). (I was not quite sure whether the above idea was feasible, I would have to investigate this.) But the problem that stopped me is that, while ip_output() first invokes the ipfilter and then fragments the packet (which is good for me), ip_input() first invokes ipfilter and only then re-assembles the packet. At the first glance it looked weird but I soon realized that ipfilter is probably only interested in packet headers and the placing hook point there can improve performance by filtering out some packets prior re-assembly. However, this design defeats my idea (if I don't want to re-assemble them by myself, of course). If would be nice to have another hook point in a proper place _after_ the re-assembly stage of ip_input(). It would not cause much overhead if nobody has a hook installed. Please, if you've reached this place, tell me where I'm wrong. We already have our IPSec product fully functional in NT and we would love to port it to FreeBSD, however, despite the simplicity of our needs, I currently don't see a clear way of plugging it into any layer of the network stack. Between IP and network inferfaces, as it is done in NT? Our product does handle fragmentation and re-assembly. But the network interface drivers push packets directly into the IP queue, I'd have to modify the ether_input() and friends and probably meet some other unexpected implications. Adding the additional hook point seems to be the ideal solution for me. It would result in minimal efforts and minimal code size, and it is clearly much cleaner then any other place. The IP protocol driver is the ideal place for IP packet filters, after all. Since I'm new to Unix, I'm not sure if this is Ok to put this couple of operators directly to ip_input and tell our customers to do so before installing our product. What is the best way? Please, forgive me if I wrote some stupid things in this letter. Thank you, Stan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 20 16:47:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B59414D8D; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 16:47:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA06571; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:17:35 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA45273; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:17:42 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:17:42 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: FreeBSD current users , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Remote serial gdb--status? Message-ID: <19990621091742.U6820@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990618114450.Q9893@freebie.lemis.com> <376AA1E6.F529ED99@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <376AA1E6.F529ED99@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Fri, Jun 18, 1999 at 01:45:42PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 18 June 1999 at 13:45:42 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> I've been away from work for several weeks, and I now find that I can >> no longer start remote serial gdb. I am using sio0 on the debugged >> machine side, and sio1 on the debugging machine side. Here are the >> relevant dmesg outputs: >> >> panic (debugged machine): >> >> sio0: system console >> sio0: gdb debugging port >> ... >> sio0 at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x90 on isa0 >> sio0: type 16550A >> >> freebie (debugging machine): >> >> sio1 at port 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa0 >> sio1: type 16550A >> sio1: interrupting at irq 3 >> >> I can communicate fine using cu, and a breakout box shows all modem >> signals asserte (DCD, DTR, DSR, RTS, CTS). When I go into remote >> debug on panic, RxD flashes, and when freebie tries to attach to >> panic, TxD flashes, so I'm obviously addressing the correct ports. >> I've checked the bit rate and configuration of the ports before going >> into debug, and they look right (9600 bps, cs8, -istrip, -parenb). I >> don't know what else to look for. Any ideas? > > I think you need flags 0x50 (instead of 0x90) on panic. From sio(4): > > Meaning of flags: > ... > 0x00010 device is potential system console > 0x00020 device is forced to become system console > 0x00040 device is reserved for low-level IO (e. g. for remote > kernel debugging) > ... In fact, it was all OK. The serial port seems to be flaky. It works OK at 9600 bps, but drops characters at 38400. I'm still investigating whether this is hardware or software: it seems to work fine in normal mode, but when it's in serial debug mode it can often drop two characters at a time, and there's no overrun indication. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 20 17:50: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pallas.veritas.com (pallas.veritas.com [204.177.156.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C205D14BF6; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:50:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Received: from megami.veritas.com (megami.veritas.com [192.203.46.101]) by pallas.veritas.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA05540; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sigma.veritas.com([192.203.46.125]) (1877 bytes) by megami.veritas.com via sendmail with P:esmtp/R:smart_host/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:49:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #3 built 1999-Jan-25) Received: from sigma (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sigma.veritas.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01387; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:49:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Message-Id: <199906210049.RAA01387@sigma.veritas.com> From: Aaron Smith To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: wietse@freebsd.org Subject: inetd/tcpd...changing hosts.allow...plus a documentation issue Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:49:59 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi all, [this is all on 3.2-RELEASE] i recently had some problems getting inetd tcp wrappers to do "the right thing". i tried a sample configuration where i allowed telnet explicitly: ALL : localhost : allow telnetd : ALL : allow ALL : ALL : deny unfortunately incoming telnet was still denied. at first i tried HUPping inetd to reread the hosts.allow, but after looking at the source it appears to re-read its information each time hosts_access is called. has anyone else had problems updating this file and getting inetd to reflect the new behavior? note that "tcpdmatch telnetd " was reporting "access granted" and yet inetd was refusing the connection. killing inetd COMPLETELY and restarting inetd caused it to start accepting the connections. i'm looking at it a bit but perhaps a maintainer knows if something is being cached here? on another note, LIBWRAP_INTERNAL looks like it must be defined for internal services to be wrapped, yet it is not defined during freebsd's compile -- only LIBWRAP is. yet freebsd's inetd man page says that internal services may be wrapped. since it is not currently so by default, perhaps either the documentation or the Makefile should be modified? aaron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 20 17:57:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blaubaer.kn-bremen.de (blaubaer.kn-bremen.de [134.102.38.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B2CF14BF6 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:57:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nox@saturn.kn-bremen.de) Received: from saturn.kn-bremen.de (uucp@localhost) by blaubaer.kn-bremen.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with UUCP id CAA22979; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 02:55:13 +0200 Received: (from nox@localhost) by saturn.kn-bremen.de (8.9.3/8.8.5) id CAA11650; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 02:48:26 +0200 (MET DST) From: Juergen Lock Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 02:48:26 +0200 To: rosegarden@lists.bath.ac.uk Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, shanee@augusta.de, Juergen Lock Subject: problem fixed itself -- more FreeBSD MIDI patches and one rosegarden bugfix (was: Rosegarden 2.1-beta Sequencer: Segmentation Violation and strange SEQ_MIDIPUTC device values) Message-ID: <19990621024825.A9382@saturn.kn-bremen.de> References: <19990616210529.A5359@saturn.kn-bremen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990616210529.A5359@saturn.kn-bremen.de>; from Juergen Lock on Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 09:05:29PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Cc'd to -hackers because of the MIDI sound driver patches, i'm running this on FreeBSD 3.2-stable with Seigo TANIMURA's midi driver for serial ports and with an old Atari MSTe as serial<->midi interface...] On Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 09:05:29PM +0200, I wrote: > Hi! I'm trying to use Rosegarden 2.1-beta on FreeBSD 3.2-stable > and came across the following problems: > > Trying to play _BREEZE.MID (example from session wintendo sequencer) > kills Rosegarden Sequencer, popping up the dialog with Chris Cannam's > old email address. (which bounced which is why i subscribed to this list.) > Trying to play almost(?) anything else, for example glazunov.rose > sends SEQ_MIDIPUTC with strange device bytes (the one i checked was 0x20, > i have only one midi device configured), leading to kernel panics until i > patched this: First, this was actually 020 ie 16... anyway, problem fixed itself: rebuilt mapper/src/Mapper.o with -g and found out Mapper_NewDeviceList() turned Device.Data.Midi.device from 0 into 16. Looked at the source and thought `strange'... Rebuilt mapper/src/Device.o with -g and suddenly Mapper_NewDeviceList() stopped doing that and everything worked again! Rebuilt Mapper.o and Device.o without -g and everything still worked. *hmmm*. Any insight how that could have happened very much appreciated... As for _BREEZE.MID, i guess that still segfaults (haven't tried). Okay so playback works again, now recording: it played back nothing from the existing tracks until i hit a note, then it played a few notes and stopped until i hit another note, and so on. Also the stop button didn't visibly react until i hit another note. Well so that must be a real difference between linux' sound system and FreeBSD's... this patch fixed it: Index: sequencer.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/cvs/src/sys/i386/isa/sound/sequencer.c,v retrieving revision 1.23.2.1 diff -u -r1.23.2.1 sequencer.c --- sequencer.c 1999/05/04 13:42:01 1.23.2.1 +++ sequencer.c 1999/06/20 20:44:37 @@ -162,8 +162,23 @@ int chn; +#if 1 + /* + * XXX don't wait if pre_event_timeout 0 (default), + * rosegarden sequencer seems to expect this + * behaviour (use -1 for no timeout) + */ + if (pre_event_timeout == 0) { + splx(flags); + return 0; + } + midi_sleeper = &chn; + DO_SLEEP(chn, midi_sleep_flag, pre_event_timeout == -1 ? + 0 : pre_event_timeout); +#else midi_sleeper = &chn; DO_SLEEP(chn, midi_sleep_flag, pre_event_timeout); +#endif if (!iqlen) { splx(flags); @@ -402,7 +417,7 @@ seq_sleeper = &chn; - DO_SLEEP(chn, seq_sleep_flag, 0); + DO_SLEEP(chn, seq_sleep_flag, hz / 10); } if (qlen >= SEQ_MAX_QUEUE) @@ -1223,7 +1238,7 @@ int chn; seq_sleeper = &chn; - DO_SLEEP(chn, seq_sleep_flag, 0); + DO_SLEEP(chn, seq_sleep_flag, hz / 10); } splx(flags); (the bottom 2 hunks are for a hang in ioctl SNDCTL_SEQ_SYNC and a possible similar hang in another place.) Alright so now i have a recorded track. But trying to delete a note got me a segfault and viewing the data as piano roll as well as saving and reloading the midi file got me -- an empty track. Also the `Recorded Track ..' and `Created by the Rosegarden sequencer' labels appeared at the end of the new track not at the start... Well, i found the fix for that too: :) Index: sequencer/src/Record.c @@ -178,6 +178,7 @@ (&EventBuffer, True)); } + RunningPtr = (EventList)First(RunningPtr); TempPtr = Midi_SeqRecordTimingDefaults(&RunningPtr); Midi_TrackConvertToOnePointRepresentation(TempPtr); Mapper_NewTrackMetaInfo(); Now i still have to find out why my midi keyboard keeps changing the volume between full and low at the start of every x'th playback, another problem of the more stranger kind... Happy MIDI-ing, -- Juergen Lock (remove dot foo from address to reply) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 20 22:19:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9826614D7A; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 22:19:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03695; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:18:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <376DCB36.27D3177A@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:18:46 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD current users , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Remote serial gdb--status? References: <19990618114450.Q9893@freebie.lemis.com> <376AA1E6.F529ED99@softweyr.com> <19990621091742.U6820@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 18 June 1999 at 13:45:42 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > > Greg Lehey wrote: > >> > >> I've been away from work for several weeks, and I now find that I can > >> no longer start remote serial gdb. I am using sio0 on the debugged > >> machine side, and sio1 on the debugging machine side. Here are the > >> relevant dmesg outputs: > >> > >> [...] > > > > I think you need flags 0x50 (instead of 0x90) on panic. From sio(4): > > > > [...] > > In fact, it was all OK. The serial port seems to be flaky. It works > OK at 9600 bps, but drops characters at 38400. I'm still > investigating whether this is hardware or software: it seems to work > fine in normal mode, but when it's in serial debug mode it can often > drop two characters at a time, and there's no overrun indication. Ick. Is this a port on the motherboard? I'd try a known good card if you have one about. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 20 23: 1:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF181539E for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shaun@online.no) Received: from localhost (ti01a26-0048.dialup.online.no [130.67.3.176]) by online.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA27438 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:00:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from shaun@localhost) by localhost (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA16298 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 03:26:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from shaun) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 03:25:00 +0200 From: Shaun Jurrens To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heavily loaded nfs/amd gets stuck Message-ID: <19990620032500.B6661@dakota.online.no> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Studded on Fri, Jun 18, 1999 at 11:07:39AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 18, 1999 at 11:07:39AM -0700, Studded wrote: #> No action on this in -current for a few days, so let's try #> hackers. In response to some suggestions I tried raising the number of #> nfsiod's to 20 (the max) and increasing the sysctl cache value to 10, #> still no joy. #> Skipped the extra blah here for size. #> #> Ok, another interesting development. What the script I'm running #> does is go through each user account on our sun servers, reads a file, #> then uses certain values from that file to print out conf files on the #> local freebsd server that's acting as an NFS client (and crashing). So #> it's mounting a directory, reading 250 files, mounting the next directory, #> reading the next 250 files, and so on for a total of 80 directories. #> #> I changed the script so that after each reading the 250 files for #> each directory it did a 'sleep 10' before it started again. This allowed #> the script to run through to completion. #> #> So, I'm still open to new things to try here. Does anyone have any #> suggestions? I've been looking at nfsiod, all I had started was the #> default 4 because I thought they would spawn more if they needed more, but #> apparently they don't. Would more of those help? Would turning them off #> altogether help? I *really* need help with this since my boss is #> (justifiably I think) loathe to put this box into service without a little #> more concrete evidence that NFS can hold up. Would it be better to send #> this to -hackers? Maybe file a PR? I don't mean to sound like a pest, and #> yes I know that we're all volunteers, etc. But after wheedling for 4 #> months to try freebsd I'm kind of feeling the pinch here. :-/ #> Studded, you might try to look at /usr/share/doc/handbook/nfs.html. It might help to use a high quality network card and maybe track the traffic between the boxes to see if the mentioned packet problems show up. Just thought you might have missed the obvious. -- Yours truly, Shaun D. Jurrens shaun.jurrens@stud.uni-regensburg.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 0:37:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56D414F2A for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:37:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (iras-2-62.ucdavis.edu [169.237.16.190]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22523 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id BAA01076 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 01:20:32 GMT (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 18:20:32 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: libss Message-ID: <19990620182032.A1061@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anybody know what /usr/src/lib/libss/ is? There isn't a manpage for it, and viewing the source I still can't figure out what it is other than it came from MIT (Athena). -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 0:38:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997DE15154; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:38:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.9.2/8.8.8) id IAA10093; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:38:03 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from joe) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:38:03 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: hackers@freebsd.org, scsi@freebsd.org Subject: [DISKLABEL FRAGGED] Clues requested... ;) Message-ID: <19990621083803.M95198@pavilion.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Organisation: Pavilion Internet plc, 24 The Old Steine, Brighton, BN1 1EL, England Phone: +44-845-333-5000 Fax: +44-845-333-5001 Mobile: +44-403-596893 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Guess what... I've got a disk where the partition table and the disklabel has mysteriously disappeared! Oops. I've reconstructed the partition table, and now need to partition the disklabel. If I mount /dev/wd2s1c I get the root (/) partition back, although the size is obviously bogus in the disklabel; now I'd like to search for the other partitions. /etc/disktab tells me which partitions there used to be, but I don't know where they start, or how large they are. I'm guessing that it should be a fairly simple process of scanning the disk for superblocks and from them I should be able to determine the start of each partition and the sizes from there. Can anyone fill me in on what to look for superblock wise please? I've spent a few hours reading the fsck docs and scanning through the header files and source code, but haven't found the answer yet. The data on the disk isn't crucial, I can rebuild the system if necessary, but it seems that maybe I can spend less time writing a recovery tool than it would take to start from scratch. Thanks in advance, Joe -- Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 1: 8:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B54414DAA for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 01:08:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA41524; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 01:08:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19990621010813.A30549@nuxi.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 01:08:13 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Aaron Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inetd/tcpd...changing hosts.allow...plus a documentation issue Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199906210049.RAA01387@sigma.veritas.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199906210049.RAA01387@sigma.veritas.com>; from Aaron Smith on Sun, Jun 20, 1999 at 05:49:59PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-BETA Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > on another note, LIBWRAP_INTERNAL looks like it must be defined for > internal services to be wrapped, yet it is not defined during freebsd's > compile -- only LIBWRAP is. yet freebsd's inetd man page says that internal > services may be wrapped. since it is not currently so by default, perhaps There was a bug in LIBWRAP_INTERNAL, that has now been fixed in -CURRENT. If you are using 3.2-STABLE, ask Sheldon Hearn when it will be merged from -CURRENT. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 2:28:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B06114DDD; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 02:28:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w0Mo-000KnL-00; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:27:50 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Aaron Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, wietse@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inetd/tcpd...changing hosts.allow...plus a documentation issue In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:49:59 MST." <199906210049.RAA01387@sigma.veritas.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:27:49 +0200 Message-ID: <79938.929957269@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:49:59 MST, Aaron Smith wrote: > unfortunately incoming telnet was still denied. at first i tried > HUPping inetd to reread the hosts.allow, but after looking at the > source it appears to re-read its information each time hosts_access is > called. has anyone else had problems updating this file and getting > inetd to reflect the new behavior? Inetd reads inetd.conf on startup and on SIGHUP. The hosts_access() check checks the hosts.allow file on each call. > i'm looking at it a bit but perhaps a maintainer knows if something is > being cached here? The bug that caused inetd to corrupt config on SIGHUP was fixed in rev 1.50 of inetd.c, which has not yet been merged to STABLE. In STABLE, LIBWRAP_INTERNAL is not default yet. In CURRENT, it is. You can expect the internal wrapping fixes and the SIGHUP bugfix to be merged back to STABLE soon (within a week). I'm in no rush, and I'm glad I didn't rush, since David Malone has already uncovered a bug in the handling of maxchild, which I believe is worth fixing before the merge. :-) Later, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 2:46:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arthur.axion.bt.co.uk (arthur.axion.bt.co.uk [132.146.5.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F26D14DE2 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 02:46:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from elise.guedin@bt-sys.bt.co.uk) Received: from rambo (actually rambo.futures.bt.co.uk) by arthur (local) with SMTP; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:45:22 +0100 Received: from hercules.info.bt.co.uk (actually hercules) by rambo with SMTP (PP); Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:47:36 +0100 Received: by hercules.info.bt.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) id <01BEBBD3.EA99E3C0@hercules.info.bt.co.uk>; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:50:46 +0100 Message-ID: <01BEBBD3.EA99E3C0@hercules.info.bt.co.uk> From: Elise Guedin To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: packet filter Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:50:44 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I would like to set up a packet filter which could be dynamically updated if some special events occur. (like someone joining a multicast group) I tried bpf but I can't put variables in the filter, only constants. With a variable I get : initializer for insns[5].k is not constant Do you know if any other tool can do that ? Thanks for any help Elise GUEDIN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 3: 3: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A1C8214EC9; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 03:03:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 21 Jun 99 11:03:04 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:03:03 +0100 From: David Malone To: Aaron Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, wietse@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inetd/tcpd...changing hosts.allow...plus a documentation issue Message-ID: <19990621110303.A7378@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <199906210049.RAA01387@sigma.veritas.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199906210049.RAA01387@sigma.veritas.com>; from Aaron Smith on Sun, Jun 20, 1999 at 05:49:59PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There was a bug in inetd in which ment that if you HUPed inetd it could get confuesed about the name of the services. This is probably what you are seeing. Sheldon has just committed a fix for this. The wrapping of internal services isn't quite working properly yet. Sheldon has committed a partial fix for this and I have a patch which seems to fix some of the remaining problems. Note that udp based services are not yet wrapped (and it isn't possible to wrap tcp nowait services even with tcdp). David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 3:59:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F6C14D14; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 03:59:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA47248; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:58:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Thomas Good Cc: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Beware of UnixWare 7 References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 21 Jun 1999 12:58:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: Thomas Good's message of "Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:17:14 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thomas Good writes: > Many conf tasks remain non-trivial as compared to BSD or Linux due > to inexpertise on SCO's end...as the red Sytem Admin Handbook once > stated (Neveth, Snyder et al.) SCO Unix* is `perverse'. Nemeth, Snyder, Seebass, Hein. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 4:32:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C9EB14D75 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:32:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA21570; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:05:17 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199906210905.LAA21570@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: ipfilter (was: RE: Introduction) To: stan@osgroup.com Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:05:16 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <01BEBB25.A7F332F0.stan@osgroup.com> from "Constantine Shkolny" at Jun 20, 99 02:03:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1660 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > this might ease life to those who want to replace ipfw with ipfilter > > for dummynet or similar things, if nothing else. > > Thank you, Luigi. Could you please help me with some basics? ... what i do in dummynet is to queue the packet (wheter it comes from ip_input() or ip_output() makes no difference) in the appropriate data structure for further processing, and return as if the firewall deleted the packet. Subsequently, when processing is done (in dummynet this means some time has passed and we get a timer interrupt, in your case i suppose your interrupt service routine would get called in this case), reinvoke the appropriate routine (p_input() or ip_output()) with the packet prepended with a header so that it can distinguish the processed packet from a new one and act differently. > If would be nice to have another hook point in a proper place _after_ > the re-assembly stage of ip_input(). It would not cause much overhead > if nobody has a hook installed. i did not have this problem with dummynet -- if you need the reassembly first, then probably you have to hook in ip_input() after the reassembly is done, ie between IP and the upper layer i guess. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 5: 0:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69AB14C8C for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 05:00:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w2kY-000MOP-00; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:00:30 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: David Malone Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:11:26 +0100." <9906181411.aa23134@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:00:30 +0200 Message-ID: <86080.929966430@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Folks, public feedback on the following portion of David's mail would be much appreciated. Since resolution of UDP wrapping would bring about the execution of the "we want tcpd" campaign, it's obviously something that both David and I would like to see finished off. It's just that we'd like it finished off in a manner that is acceptable to the more die-hard hackers. Is committing changes the only way to ellicit DES / bde / other-nasty responses? ;-) Thanks, Sheldon. On Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:11:26 +0100, David Malone wrote: > An interesting question is, should we try to do this in a > clever fashion, or should we stick with something simple. > The simple implimentation looks like: > > fork(); if( rejected ) exit() else provide_serivce(); > > The clever implimentation would look like: > > fork; while( rejected && !timedout ) { get new packet }; > if( timedout ) exit() else provide_service(); > > The clever one reduces forks, but as inetd isn't the place > where high performance services are provided from the extra > complexity may not be worth it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 5:45:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay04.indigo.ie (relay04.indigo.ie [194.125.133.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2288B14C4F for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 05:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from niall@pobox.com) Received: (qmail 11180 messnum 46710 invoked from network[194.125.172.100/ts99-332.dublin.indigo.ie]); 21 Jun 1999 12:45:38 -0000 Received: from ts99-332.dublin.indigo.ie (HELO pobox.com) (194.125.172.100) by relay04.indigo.ie (qp 11180) with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 12:45:38 -0000 Message-ID: <376E42BD.117B32DA@pobox.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:48:45 +0000 From: Niall Smart Organization: Trinity Commerce X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Josef Karthauser Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [DISKLABEL FRAGGED] Clues requested... ;) References: <19990621083803.M95198@pavilion.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6A03DA571A5C4CB5B0C068BC" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6A03DA571A5C4CB5B0C068BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Josef Karthauser wrote: > > Guess what... I've got a disk where the partition table and the disklabel has > mysteriously disappeared! Oops. > > I've reconstructed the partition table, and now need to partition the disklabel. Wow, you're probably the first person ever to do that, unlucky you. Out of sympathy I've written you this findsb program which of course I've never had to use myself. Its not the most efficiently written program ever and since FreeBSD swap partitions don't have magic numbers it may be slow, but it seems to work, however I draw your attention to the disclaimer in the C file. ;) Regards, Niall niall% disklabel wd0s2 | sed -n '/fstype/,$p' # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg] a: 131072 0 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 8*) b: 262144 131072 swap # (Cyl. 8*- 24*) c: 4192965 0 unused 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 260) e: 819200 393216 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 24*- 75*) f: 2980549 1212416 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 75*- 260*) niall% ./findsb /dev/wd0s2 0 found superblock: offset=16384, fs_size=65536, fs_fsmnt=/ suggested disklabel entry: size offset fstype 131072 0 4.2BSD found superblock: offset=24576, fs_size=65536, fs_fsmnt= suggested disklabel entry: size offset fstype 131072 16 4.2BSD ^C niall% ./findsb /dev/wd0s2 $[393216 * 512 - 8192 * 10] skipping 201244672 bytes found superblock: offset=201342976, fs_size=409600, fs_fsmnt=/home suggested disklabel entry: size offset fstype 819200 393216 4.2BSD found superblock: offset=201351168, fs_size=409600, fs_fsmnt= suggested disklabel entry: size offset fstype 819200 393232 4.2BSD ^C --------------6A03DA571A5C4CB5B0C068BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Makefile" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Makefile" PROG = findsb CFLAGS = -aout -static -W -Wall -Wmissing-prototypes -Wstrict-prototypes MAN1 = .include --------------6A03DA571A5C4CB5B0C068BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="findsb.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="findsb.c" /* * Copyright (c) 1999 Niall Smart. All rights reserved. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * This product includes software developed by Niall Smart, niall@pobox.com. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY NIALL SMART ``AS IS'' AND * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL NIALL SMART BE LIABLE * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include int main(int argc, char** argv) { int fd; int ret; off_t offset; u_quad_t skip; char* ptr; char buf[SBSIZE]; struct fs* fs = (struct fs*)buf; if (argc != 3) { fprintf(stderr, "usage: %s device skip\n", argv[0]); exit(1); } if ( (fd = open(argv[1], O_RDONLY)) < 0) { perror("open"); exit(1); } if ( (skip = strtouq(argv[2], &ptr, 0)) == QUAD_MAX || *ptr != '\0') { fprintf(stderr, "bad seek value: %s\n", argv[2]); exit(1); } if ( (skip % SBOFF) != 0) fprintf(stderr, "warning: %qu is not a multiple of SBOFF (%d)\n", skip, (int)SBOFF);; if (skip > 0) { fprintf(stderr, "skipping %qu bytes\n", skip); lseek(fd, skip, SEEK_SET); } while (1) { ret = read(fd, buf, sizeof(buf)); if (ret < 0) { perror("read"); exit(1); } /* * based on checks in /sys/ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c, line 478 */ if (fs->fs_magic == FS_MAGIC && fs->fs_bsize <= MAXBSIZE && fs->fs_bsize >= (int32_t)sizeof(struct fs)) { offset = lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_CUR); printf("found superblock: offset=%qd, fs_size=%d, fs_fsmnt=%.*s\n", offset, fs->fs_size, MAXMNTLEN, fs->fs_fsmnt); printf("suggested disklabel entry:\n\n"); printf(" size offset fstype\n"); printf("%8d %8qd 4.2BSD\n\n", fs->fs_size * 2, (offset - 16384) / 512); } } printf("%d:%d\n", sizeof(struct fs), offsetof(struct fs, fs_magic)); return 0; } --------------6A03DA571A5C4CB5B0C068BC-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 5:58:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3FF014D5F; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 05:57:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tomg@nrnet.org) Received: from mailhost.nrnet.org (root@mailhost.nrnet.org [166.84.192.39]) by mail2.panix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/PanixM1.3) with ESMTP id IAA02235; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tomg@localhost) by mailhost.nrnet.org (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA17195; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:25:40 -0400 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:25:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Good To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Beware of UnixWare 7...And Lysdexia? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 21 Jun 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Thomas Good writes: > > Many conf tasks remain non-trivial as compared to BSD or Linux due > > to inexpertise on SCO's end...as the red Sytem Admin Handbook once > > stated (Neveth, Snyder et al.) SCO Unix* is `perverse'. > > Nemeth, Snyder, Seebass, Hein. ^ Hey! So I mix up left and right index fingers while typing?!! Is that a crime!!? Besides which --- `Et al' means `and the rest'...useful for the typing impaired! Anyhoo, maybe Evi will forgive me...maybe not but I still find the book useful, as I reckon you do! My copy sits next to my BSD console at home, right underneath my stuffed chuckie daemon. The part that compares system initialisation is especially useful. I use both getty and ttymon and the book does a good job comparing the two strategies...I wish they'd do a new edition. I like Aeleen Frisch (SP? ;-) and her `Essential System Administration' from Tim O'Reilly but the red sysadm guide is my favourite. (Altho I wince when I see the price tag these days: $65 US!) Cheers (thanks for the correction), Tom ------- North Richmond Community Mental Health Center ------- Thomas Good MIS Coordinator Vital Signs: tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org Phone: 718-354-5528 Fax: 718-354-5056 /* Member: Computer Professionals For Social Responsibility */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 6: 7:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50DEC14E57; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 06:07:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA50518; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:06:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Thomas Good Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey , FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Beware of UnixWare 7...And Lysdexia? References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 21 Jun 1999 15:06:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: Thomas Good's message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:25:40 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thomas Good writes: > The part that compares system initialisation is especially useful. > I use both getty and ttymon and the book does a good job comparing > the two strategies...I wish they'd do a new edition. I like > Aeleen Frisch (SP? ;-) You got that one right :) > and her `Essential System Administration' > from Tim O'Reilly but the red sysadm guide is my favourite. Actually, I didn't like it very much. It's been a long time though; I was 17 when I read it. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 6:12: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 870AA14C8B for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 06:12:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 21 Jun 99 14:12:04 +0100 (BST) To: Ian Dowse Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inetd/tcpd...changing hosts.allow...plus a documentation issue In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:10:10 BST." <9906211110.aa11011@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> X-Request-Do: Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:12:03 +0100 From: David Malone Message-ID: <9906211412.aa28508@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In message <19990621110303.A7378@walton.maths.tcd.ie>, David Malone writes: > > >wrapped (and it isn't possible to wrap tcp nowait services even with tcdp). > > Is that what you meant to say, or am I getting confused? Did you mean udp, > or wait? Of course - I ment tcp wait services. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 6:13:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7159514C8B for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 06:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 21 Jun 99 14:13:49 +0100 (BST) To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:00:30 +0200." <86080.929966430@axl.noc.iafrica.com> X-Request-Do: Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:13:49 +0100 From: David Malone Message-ID: <9906211413.aa28663@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Folks, public feedback on the following portion of David's mail would be > much appreciated. Since resolution of UDP wrapping would bring about the > execution of the "we want tcpd" campaign, it's obviously something that > both David and I would like to see finished off. I got one person who suggested a flag in inetd.conf which could disable wrapping for a service. This seems like quite a good idea if we can come up with an acceptable syntax for the flag. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 6:20:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C20D14C8B for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 06:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w3zr-000NaN-00; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:20:23 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: David Malone Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:13:49 +0100." <9906211413.aa28663@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:20:23 +0200 Message-ID: <90666.929971223@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:13:49 +0100, David Malone wrote: > I got one person who suggested a flag in inetd.conf which could disable > wrapping for a service. This seems like quite a good idea if we can come > up with an acceptable syntax for the flag. What I have in mind is a -w option. Specified once, it disables wrapping of internal services. Specified twice, it disables wrapping altogether. It's a pity we went forward the way we did, making wrapping the default for STABLE. I'd have preferred leaving it disabled by default, for maximum backward compatibility. However, now that we're here, I think it'll be a very confusing move to make non-wrapping behaviour the default. There's already a flag in inetd.conf called inetd_flags, in which the administrator could place her "-w" or "-w -w" as desired. Ciao, Sheldon. PS: My request for feedback wasn't about the command-ling options. It was about the handling of UDP connections. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 6:26:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FEC514ECF for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 06:26:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:25:41 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id NHL6LVF9; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:17:45 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10w45r-0002n7-00; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:26:35 +0100 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:26:35 +0100 To: David Malone Cc: Sheldon Hearn , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. Message-Id: <19990621142634.A10715@palmerharvey.co.uk> References: <86080.929966430@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <9906211413.aa28663@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <9906211413.aa28663@salmon.maths.tcd.ie>; from David Malone on Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 02:13:49PM +0100 From: Dom Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 02:13:49PM +0100, David Malone wrote: > > Folks, public feedback on the following portion of David's mail would be > > much appreciated. Since resolution of UDP wrapping would bring about the > > execution of the "we want tcpd" campaign, it's obviously something that > > both David and I would like to see finished off. > > I got one person who suggested a flag in inetd.conf which could disable > wrapping for a service. This seems like quite a good idea if we can come > up with an acceptable syntax for the flag. inetd.conf is one of those things, like newsyslog.conf which is long past due for an overhaul... -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator "Always think very hard before messing with TCP. And then don't." -- MC -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 6:55:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6647C14F2A for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 06:55:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04464; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906211355.JAA04464@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:47:40 -0400 To: Robert Nordier From: Dennis Subject: Re: Changing Bootmgr display Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199906191658.SAA01909@ceia.nordier.com> References: <199906191602.MAA10374@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I notice that v1.10 is up in -current...does this patch still apply? Dennis At 06:58 PM 6/19/99 +0200, Robert Nordier wrote: >Dennis wrote: > >> F1: FreeBSD >> F2: LINUX >> F3: FreeBSD >> >> F3 is a non-bootable file system...is there a way to get the boot manager >> to only display F1 and F2? > >At the moment, no. Though you could use the following patch, which >allows the slices to be individually disabled. (The B0FLAGS setting in >Makefile enables slices 1 and 2; use B0FLAGS=0xf to enable all four >slices.) > >If worthwhile, boot0cfg(8) can later be modified to set/unset the >flags, rather than using a build option. > >Note that the patch is against boot0.s rev 1.9 committed yesterday. > >-- >Robert Nordier > > >--- Makefile.orig Sat Jun 19 18:48:42 1999 >+++ Makefile Sat Jun 19 18:43:07 1999 >@@ -8,7 +8,7 @@ > > M4?= m4 > >-B0FLAGS=0x0 >+B0FLAGS=0x3 > B0TICKS=0xb6 > > ORG= 0x600 >--- boot0.s.orig Sat Jun 19 18:51:10 1999 >+++ boot0.s Sat Jun 19 18:51:21 1999 >@@ -71,6 +71,8 @@ > movwir(partbl+0x4,_bx) # Partition table > xorl %edx,%edx # Item number > main.3: movbr1(_ch,-0x4,_bx_) # Zero active flag >+ btwr1(_dx,_FLAGS,_bp_) # Entry enabled? >+ jnc main.5 # No > movb0r(_bx_,_al) # Load type > movwir(tables,_di) # Lookup tables > movb $TBL0SZ,%cl # Number of entries > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 7: 2:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw-nl3.philips.com (gw-nl3.philips.com [192.68.44.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC51D14C32 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:02:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl3.philips.com with ESMTP id QAA28576 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:02:36 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl3.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma028541; Mon, 21 Jun 99 16:02:37 +0200 Received: from hal.mpn.cp.philips.com (hal.mpn.cp.philips.com [130.139.64.195]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with SMTP id QAA19479 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:02:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 40166 invoked by uid 666); 21 Jun 1999 14:02:53 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:02:53 +0200 From: Jos Backus To: Dom Mitchell Cc: David Malone , Sheldon Hearn , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. Message-ID: <19990621160253.F36966@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Reply-To: Jos Backus References: <86080.929966430@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <9906211413.aa28663@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <19990621142634.A10715@palmerharvey.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990621142634.A10715@palmerharvey.co.uk>; from Dom Mitchell on Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 02:26:35PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 02:26:35PM +0100, Dom Mitchell wrote: > inetd.conf is one of those things, like newsyslog.conf which is long > past due for an overhaul... Some would say the same for inetd. Without wanting to start a flame war, tcpserver (part of the sysutils/ucspi-tcp port) has some distinct advantages over inetd: - Per-service control. Simply use kill -(STOP|CONT) to manage a service, or even better, use supervise/svc from the sysutils/daemontools port. - Built-in wrapping support, which scales better because it uses a hashed, read-only database instead of a textfile. - Non-privileged users can run servers without root having to edit /etc/inetd.conf and HUP inetd. Of course, this only covers TCP-based services. I'll leave mentioning the downsides to other members of the audience. -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 7:43:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m2-30-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C75014F37 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:43:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA01804; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:42:30 +0200 (SAST) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199906211442.QAA01804@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: Changing Bootmgr display In-Reply-To: <199906211355.JAA04464@etinc.com> from Dennis at "Jun 21, 1999 08:47:40 am" To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:42:28 +0200 (SAST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I notice that v1.10 is up in -current...does this patch still apply? > > Dennis v1.10 is just a variation on this patch, with support for dynamic configuration using boot0cfg(8) rather than by way of a build option. For instance boot0cfg -m 0xd da0 will cause the second partition to be ignored. (Needs boot0cfg.c v1.5 as well, though.) RN > At 06:58 PM 6/19/99 +0200, Robert Nordier wrote: > >Dennis wrote: > > > >> F1: FreeBSD > >> F2: LINUX > >> F3: FreeBSD > >> > >> F3 is a non-bootable file system...is there a way to get the boot manager > >> to only display F1 and F2? > > > >At the moment, no. Though you could use the following patch, which > >allows the slices to be individually disabled. (The B0FLAGS setting in > >Makefile enables slices 1 and 2; use B0FLAGS=0xf to enable all four > >slices.) > > > >If worthwhile, boot0cfg(8) can later be modified to set/unset the > >flags, rather than using a build option. > > > >Note that the patch is against boot0.s rev 1.9 committed yesterday. > > > >-- > >Robert Nordier > > > > > >--- Makefile.orig Sat Jun 19 18:48:42 1999 > >+++ Makefile Sat Jun 19 18:43:07 1999 > >@@ -8,7 +8,7 @@ > > > > M4?= m4 > > > >-B0FLAGS=0x0 > >+B0FLAGS=0x3 > > B0TICKS=0xb6 > > > > ORG= 0x600 > >--- boot0.s.orig Sat Jun 19 18:51:10 1999 > >+++ boot0.s Sat Jun 19 18:51:21 1999 > >@@ -71,6 +71,8 @@ > > movwir(partbl+0x4,_bx) # Partition table > > xorl %edx,%edx # Item number > > main.3: movbr1(_ch,-0x4,_bx_) # Zero active flag > >+ btwr1(_dx,_FLAGS,_bp_) # Entry enabled? > >+ jnc main.5 # No > > movb0r(_bx_,_al) # Load type > > movwir(tables,_di) # Lookup tables > > movb $TBL0SZ,%cl # Number of entries To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 7:50:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FCA814F37 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:50:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12926; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:50:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <376E5126.43CD80A3@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:50:14 -0700 From: Doug Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shaun Jurrens Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heavily loaded nfs/amd gets stuck References: <19990620032500.B6661@dakota.online.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Shaun Jurrens wrote: > Studded, you might try to look at /usr/share/doc/handbook/nfs.html. It might help to use a high quality network card and maybe track the traffic between the boxes to see if the mentioned packet problems show up. It's an Intel motherboard with an Intel Pro 100 built on, plugged into one of two high quality switches running at 100 and full duplex, so I doubt that is the problem. :) I could sniff the traffic, but what would I be looking for? Every DDB backtrace dies in mount() so I am inclined to think it's not a packet problem, but I would be willing to look at just about anything at this point. > Just thought you might have missed the obvious. *Nod* That's always a possibility, NFS is definitely not my thing, although I'm learning more and more about it as I go along. :-/ Thanks, Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 7:59:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A75014FBF for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:59:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12989; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:59:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <376E5332.2CA33A5E@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:58:58 -0700 From: Doug Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: David Malone , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. References: <90666.929971223@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:13:49 +0100, David Malone wrote: > > > I got one person who suggested a flag in inetd.conf which could disable > > wrapping for a service. This seems like quite a good idea if we can come > > up with an acceptable syntax for the flag. > > What I have in mind is a -w option. Specified once, it disables wrapping > of internal services. Specified twice, it disables wrapping altogether. Errrr.... > It's a pity we went forward the way we did, making wrapping the default > for STABLE. When exactly was it made the default? Prior to 3.2-Release, or after? > I'd have preferred leaving it disabled by default, for > maximum backward compatibility. However, now that we're here, I think > it'll be a very confusing move to make non-wrapping behaviour the > default. It's never (ok, rarely) too late to undo a bad decision. If the change happened after the latest -Release, by all means, back it out. Very few users adopt -Stable compared to the number of users who adopt releases. If the change happened prior to the release, we're stuck with it for all practical purposes. > There's already a flag in inetd.conf called inetd_flags, in which the > administrator could place her "-w" or "-w -w" as desired. It would be more traditionally unix-like to have a flag for wrapping a service (on by default, or not, see above) and a flag for not wrapping. For instance I could start inetd with the -w flag to wrap all services, and then disable one service with a -d for don't wrap, and vv. Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 8: 2:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3857F14FBF for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13018 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <376E53F6.B12C1629@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:02:14 -0700 From: Doug Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Since y'all are discussing inetd.conf, here is something else to consider. Doug -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:55:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Studded To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav CC: freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-gnat-submit@FreeBSD.org,alex@wnm.net On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > The following reply was made to PR misc/11796; it has been noted by GNATS. > > From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav > To: alex@wnm.net > Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf > Date: 01 Jun 1999 16:26:46 +0200 > > alex@wnm.net writes: > > The default /etc/inetd.conf contains commented out lines for enabling > > identd. Both relevant lines refer to the 'ident' service, which is, > > according to /etc/services, really 'auth', as it should be. > > Oh? > > root@des ~# grep -w 113 /etc/services > auth 113/tcp ident tap #Authentication Service > auth 113/udp ident tap #Authentication Service > Works just fine, thank you very much :) The man page for identd says in part, The service-name entry is the name of a valid service in the file /etc/services. For ``internal'' services (discussed below), the service name must be the official name of the service (that is, the first entry in /etc/services). Therefore the first entry should definitely be changed. The second entry in the inetd.conf file is for a non-internal identd daemon, but some versions of the software are more picky than others, and the fact that one of them might "work" doesn't mean that the configuration file isn't in error. At minimum the following patch should be applied. Ideally you would add a comment to the fact that the two entries in inetd.conf are mutually exclusive. Thanks, Doug --- inetd.conf.Dist Sun May 9 06:31:40 1999 +++ inetd.conf Wed Jun 16 12:49:51 1999 @@ -65,11 +65,11 @@ # # Return error for all "ident" requests # -#ident stream tcp nowait root internal +#auth stream tcp nowait root internal # # example entry for the optional ident server # -#ident stream tcp wait kmem:kmem /usr/local/sbin/identd identd -w -t120 +#auth stream tcp wait kmem:kmem /usr/local/sbin/identd identd -w -t120 # # example entry for the optional qmail MTA # To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-bugs" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 8:18:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4779D14CFD for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:18:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w5pY-0003KD-00; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:17:52 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Doug Cc: David Malone , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:58:58 MST." <376E5332.2CA33A5E@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:17:52 +0200 Message-ID: <12784.929978272@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:58:58 MST, Doug wrote: > When exactly was it made the default? Prior to 3.2-Release, or after? > It's never (ok, rarely) too late to undo a bad decision. If the change > happened after the latest -Release, by all means, back it out. Cvsweb says it happened _before_ 3.2-RELEASE. That's why I plan to leave wrapping turned on by default and providing command-line options for turning it off. If I had a solid support on a decision to reverse the behaviour exhibited in 3.2-RELEASE, I'd do it. :-) > It would be more traditionally unix-like to have a flag for wrapping a > service (on by default, or not, see above) and a flag for not wrapping. For > instance I could start inetd with the -w flag to wrap all services, and > then disable one service with a -d for don't wrap, and vv. I agree that -w for "enable wrapping" would be preferable. I don't agree that an exception option would be cool at all, so that's not something I'll be doing myself. Nevertheless, my understanding of "the FreeBSD way" leads me to believe that it's a bad idea to reverse the behaviour established for a stable release without solid support. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 8:25: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F8F14FA1; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:24:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w5wD-0003PP-00; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:24:45 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Doug Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-gnat-submit@FreeBSD.org, alex@wnm.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:02:14 MST." <376E53F6.B12C1629@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:24:45 +0200 Message-ID: <13106.929978685@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:02:14 MST, Doug wrote: > The service-name entry is the name of a valid service in the file > /etc/services. For ``internal'' services (discussed below), the > service name must be the official name of the service (that is, the first > entry in /etc/services). Read the services(5) manpage. There's nothing wrong with using a service's alias. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 8:38:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1579414CFD for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:38:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w69b-0003YS-00; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:38:35 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Doug Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:02:14 MST." <376E53F6.B12C1629@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:38:35 +0200 Message-ID: <13667.929979515@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A copy of my reply has been bounced to freebsd-gnats-submit, since the address in the forwarded headers was misspelled. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 11:12:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD44514FA1; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:12:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15099; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:12:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:12:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug X-Sender: doug@dt054n86.san.rr.com To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Doug , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@wnm.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] In-Reply-To: <13106.929978685@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:02:14 MST, Doug wrote: > > > The service-name entry is the name of a valid service in the file > > /etc/services. For ``internal'' services (discussed below), the > > service name must be the official name of the service (that is, the first > > entry in /etc/services). > > Read the services(5) manpage. There's nothing wrong with using a > service's alias. Can you point out exactly what part of the man page that you are referring to that contradicts what the inetd man page says? Have you checked the actual code for inetd to verify that it will work with services aliases? In my experience, and in the experience of the PR poster it *is* necessary to use the canonical name of the service, however if you can check the code, test it thoroughly and determine that inetd works perfectly well with aliases, then feel free to change the man page for inetd. Thanks, Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 11:20:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5642B152BE; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:20:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w8fc-0005Zr-00; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:19:48 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Doug Cc: Doug , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@wnm.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:12:26 MST." Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:19:48 +0200 Message-ID: <21442.929989188@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:12:26 MST, Doug wrote: > Can you point out exactly what part of the man page that you are > referring to that contradicts what the inetd man page says? Have you > checked the actual code for inetd to verify that it will work with > services aliases? Certainly. From services(5): The services file contains information regarding the known services available in the DARPA Internet. For each service a single line should be present with the following information: official service name port number protocol name aliases We wouldn't be straying too far from reality if we interpretated the word "alias" as "another name for". We now look at /etc/services and see: auth 113/tcp ident tap #Authentication Service auth 113/udp ident tap #Authentication Service We read from this that each of "ident" and "tap" is "another name for" "auth". We now look et /etc/inetd.conf, where we find: #ident stream tcp wait kmem:kmem /usr/local/sbin/identd identd -w -t120 I uncommented this line a few years ago and haven't had a problem with my ident service that I could think of. > In my experience, and in the experience of the PR poster it *is* > necessary to use the canonical name of the service, however if you can > check the code, test it thoroughly and determine that inetd works > perfectly well with aliases, then feel free to change the man page for > inetd. Since the manpage supports my experience thus far, I really can't see how you'd put the burden of proof on me. :-) Let's see a "How-To-Repeat" of somewhat more substance than "Try running identd without having noticed the glitch". Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 11:32:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0D614F59; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:32:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA58203; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:32:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Doug Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Doug , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@wnm.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 21 Jun 1999 20:32:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: Doug's message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:12:26 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug writes: > In my experience, and in the experience of the PR poster it *is* > necessary to use the canonical name of the service, however if you can > check the code, test it thoroughly and determine that inetd works > perfectly well with aliases, then feel free to change the man page for > inetd. Empirical evidence as well as the source code say you're both wrong. The builtin ident service is listed as "ident" in inetd's table over internal services. des@des ~% telnet localhost auth Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. des des:ERROR:HIDDEN-USER Connection closed by foreign host. des@des ~% grep ident /etc/inetd.conf # Return error for all "ident" requests ident stream tcp nowait root internal # example entry for the optional ident server #ident stream tcp wait kmem:kmem /usr/local/sbin/identd identd -w -t120 des@des ~% grep ident /usr/src/usr.sbin/inetd/inetd.c void ident_stream __P((int, struct servtab *)); { "ident", SOCK_STREAM, 1, -1, ident_stream }, ident_stream(s, sep) /* Ident service */ DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 11:43: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E5615212; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:42:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15337; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:42:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug X-Sender: doug@dt054n86.san.rr.com To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@wnm.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] In-Reply-To: <21442.929989188@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:12:26 MST, Doug wrote: > > > Can you point out exactly what part of the man page that you are > > referring to that contradicts what the inetd man page says? Have you > > checked the actual code for inetd to verify that it will work with > > services aliases? > > Certainly. From services(5): ... Quoting the part of the man page that says there are such a thing as aliases does not refute the part of the inetd man page that says even though there are such a thing as aliases, you can't use them for internal services. > > In my experience, and in the experience of the PR poster it *is* > > necessary to use the canonical name of the service, however if you can > > check the code, test it thoroughly and determine that inetd works > > perfectly well with aliases, then feel free to change the man page for > > inetd. > > Since the manpage supports my experience thus far, I really can't see > how you'd put the burden of proof on me. :-) You are really really missing my point here, so I will state it again. If you have carefully examined the code for *every* case of *every* internal service, and you have tested it thoroughly, and you are 100% sure that the man page is in error, change the man page. If all of the above is not true, you should change the example for ident in the sample conf file because even IF it works, even if it works *100%* of the time for YOU, there is an outstanding PR that shows it doesn't work for everybody, and there is absolutely no justification for leaving an example in the conf file that conflicts with the man page. (No justification other than the ubiquitous, "We've always done it that way.") I sincerely hope that I've made myself sufficiently clear on this. If you are still confused, please feel free to respond. Thanks, Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 11:50:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB9B15376; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:50:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA58650; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:50:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Doug Cc: Sheldon Hearn , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@wnm.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 21 Jun 1999 20:50:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: Doug's message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:42:46 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug writes: > You are really really missing my point here, so I will state it > again. If you have carefully examined the code for *every* case of *every* > internal service, and you have tested it thoroughly, and you are 100% sure > that the man page is in error, change the man page. The confusion arises from the fact that inetd and /etc/services disagree on what the canonical name for the ident service is. Inetd has these canonical names hardcoded in an array of structs, so changing the canonical name in /etc/services does not affect inetd's belief of what the canonical name is. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 11:54:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF17014F99; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:54:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w9Ck-0005yG-00; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:54:02 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Doug Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@wnm.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:42:46 MST." Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:54:02 +0200 Message-ID: <22955.929991242@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:42:46 MST, Doug wrote: > [...] there is an outstanding PR that shows it > doesn't work for everybody, and there is absolutely no justification for > leaving an example in the conf file that conflicts with the man page. Doug, I'm annoyed that you ignored the most important part of my previous mail. What I quote you on having said above is not true There is no outstanding PR that shows anything at all on this issue. The PR you're talking about is 100% content-free. I'm particularly keen in seeing inetd as bug-free as possible, so I urge you _again_ to produce a meaningful "How-To-Repeat". > (No justification other than the ubiquitous, "We've always done it > that way.") This is an aside, but it's worth noting. A comment like that makes it sound like you underestimate the time a sysadmin saves by knowing "the way things have always been". In this particular case, note that both OpenBSD and NetBSD ship with an inetd.conf that uses the service name "ident" instead of "auth". Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 12:11: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 703B314F2A; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:10:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15524; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:10:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:10:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug X-Sender: doug@dt054n86.san.rr.com To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Sheldon Hearn , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@wnm.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 21 Jun 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Doug writes: > > You are really really missing my point here, so I will state it > > again. If you have carefully examined the code for *every* case of *every* > > internal service, and you have tested it thoroughly, and you are 100% sure > > that the man page is in error, change the man page. > > The confusion arises from the fact that inetd and /etc/services > disagree on what the canonical name for the ident service is. Inetd > has these canonical names hardcoded in an array of structs, so > changing the canonical name in /etc/services does not affect inetd's > belief of what the canonical name is. Ok, so what we're looking at is actually an entirely different error. :) In fact, the man page is correct, however the inetd code currently has an outdated version of the canonical name. Thus, at minimum the man page should be udpated to reflect this reality. A better solution would be to remove the hard coded values in the code, and fix the config file. It adds unneeded steepness to the learning curve to have the man page and the example configuration file out of synch. The average new user would have no reason to check the code to get an answer to this. Thanks, Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 12:21:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0157914C37; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:21:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA48502; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:21:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Doug , Doug , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@wnm.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] In-Reply-To: <21442.929989188@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG By the way, I'd recommend all -CURRENT users, after making world, make a new copy of pidentd. The code to grovel through the kernel to find socket info is MUCH less sickening now, so identd is less of a performance hit and less likely to fail due to race conditions. Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 12:21:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEF3D15234; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:21:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15563; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:21:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:21:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug X-Sender: doug@dt054n86.san.rr.com To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@wnm.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] In-Reply-To: <22955.929991242@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:42:46 MST, Doug wrote: > > > [...] there is an outstanding PR that shows it > > doesn't work for everybody, and there is absolutely no justification for > > leaving an example in the conf file that conflicts with the man page. > > Doug, I'm annoyed that you ignored the most important part of my > previous mail. What I quote you on having said above is not true There > is no outstanding PR that shows anything at all on this issue. The PR > you're talking about is 100% content-free. "It doesn't work with the conf file that came with the system, but it does work if I change the conf file to match the documentation" is pretty good content in my book. Obviously he doesn't include information on how to repeat the problem in a verifiable way, but that doesn't (in my book anyway) invalidate the PR. > I'm particularly keen in seeing inetd as bug-free as possible, so I urge > you _again_ to produce a meaningful "How-To-Repeat". I urge you, again, to try and understand my point. There is no reason to have the man page and the example conf file out of synch. Also, as Dag-Erling pointed out, the real problem is much deeper than either, however bringing the documentation up to date *should* be a priority regardless of how many of the other problems you choose to fix. > > (No justification other than the ubiquitous, "We've always done it > > that way.") > > This is an aside, but it's worth noting. A comment like that makes it > sound like you underestimate the time a sysadmin saves by knowing "the > way things have always been". Don't be ridiculous, the two things have nothing to do with one another. You're trying to justify perpetuating an error as a time saver to people who already know better, and I'm trying to point out that new users shouldn't be hampered by this kind of nonsense. Fix the man page, the config file AND the code and no one will be inconvenienced because it will all work the way it ought to. > In this particular case, note that both OpenBSD and NetBSD ship with an > inetd.conf that uses the service name "ident" instead of "auth". Even if they were doing everything right, you're still tossing in red herrings. My point is not about whether it works, my point is that the documentation should be consistent with reality. Whether we're talking about an ideal reality or not is a whole other story. Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 12:37:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 733AC1532B for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:37:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.186]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA5BA3; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:37:14 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11240; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:37:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:37:17 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "David O'Brien" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: libss Message-ID: <19990621213717.B10415@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990620182032.A1061@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <19990620182032.A1061@dragon.nuxi.com>; from David O'Brien on Sun, Jun 20, 1999 at 06:20:32PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * David O'Brien (obrien@NUXI.com) [990621 10:38]: > Does anybody know what /usr/src/lib/libss/ is? There isn't a manpage for > it, and viewing the source I still can't figure out what it is other than > it came from MIT (Athena). Apparantly David it came from the SIPB at MIT and more specifically as part of security/encryption studies as far as I have been able to glance from the files both locally and at MIT. They oughtta be shot/hanged or whatnot for the lack of commentary in the sourcecode... Man, it makes one wonder whether or not they get a curriculum about lack of documenting =) Apparantly the libss is also used a lot for a project called Zephyr at MIT. And what I gather from the (sparse) docs libss and libet are replacements for athena. Hope this is of some help... -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The *BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: We are back and will not accept no... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 12:45:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CF9515132; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA60016; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:45:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Doug Cc: Sheldon Hearn , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@wnm.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 21 Jun 1999 21:45:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: Doug's message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:21:34 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 37 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug writes: > "It doesn't work with the conf file that came with the system, but > it does work if I change the conf file to match the documentation" is > pretty good content in my book. Obviously he doesn't include information > on how to repeat the problem in a verifiable way, but that doesn't (in my > book anyway) invalidate the PR. The PR is wrong. Sheldon is right. It *does* work the way it ships. If he experienced problems, I bet the real bug was that he edited inetd.conf, HUPed inetd, and hit the "HUP clobbers the service table" bug. > I urge you, again, to try and understand my point. There is no > reason to have the man page and the example conf file out of synch. Also, > as Dag-Erling pointed out, the real problem is much deeper than either, > however bringing the documentation up to date *should* be a priority > regardless of how many of the other problems you choose to fix. The right way to fix the documentation is simply to mention what inetd thinks the canonical names are. The alternative solution is to extend the format of inetd.conf to allow specifying the service name after the 'internal' keyword, so you could change /etc/services to read: fooglorb 113/tcp and inetd.conf to read: fooglorb stream tcp nowait root internal ident and inetd would know what service to provide on port 113, even if /etc/services doesn't call it 'ident'. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 13:49:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.ctxuk.citrix.com (gatekeeper.ctxuk.citrix.com [195.153.38.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0A814F42 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:49:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from KevinQ@ctxuk.citrix.com) Received: from sh.ctxuk.citrix.com (sh.ctxuk.citrix.com [10.30.224.4]) by gatekeeper.ctxuk.citrix.com (8.8.7/BSCF-1.7) with ESMTP id VAA14716 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:48:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from ukmail1.ctxuk.citrix.com (ukmail1.ctxuk.citrix.com [10.30.224.36]) by sh.ctxuk.citrix.com (8.8.7/BSCF-1.7) with ESMTP id VAA19942 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:48:57 +0100 (BST) Received: by ukmail1.ctxuk.citrix.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:48:57 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Kevin Quinlan (UK)" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Kernel crashes using FreeBSD 3.1 (reproduceable) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:48:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I asked this question on freebsd-questions a couple of weeks ago, got a couple of answers and then I was away from work for a couple of weeks. One answer that I got suggested that I ask this forum, so here goes: I have a standard Dell Poweredge 2300 running FreeBSD 3.1. When running cvsup on this machine, the kernel crashes every time about a minute after starting cvsup. The kernel that was used in generating the following traces and dmesg output, is a custom kernel, but the problem is just as reproduceable with the Generic kernel. I have checked the disks using the utility built in to the Adaptec controller, but this has not revealed any problems with the disks. I have checked the bug database at freebsd.org, and there are a couple of references to similar crashes, but no recommended fixes or patches. I cannot build a current kernel as I can't get cvsup to copy the files over, so I am interested if anyone knows what causes this problem, and if there are any known fixes or workarounds. Thanks Kevin Quinlan dmesg output: Copyright (c) 1992-1999 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #2: Wed Jun 2 18:20:26 BST 1999 root@unixmon:/usr/src/sys/compile/PRODUCTION Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz Timecounter "TSC" frequency 332387832 Hz CPU: Pentium II/Xeon/Celeron (332.39-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x651 Stepping=1 Features=0x183fbff> real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) avail memory = 127397888 (124412K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xf02fc000. eisa0: Probing for devices on the EISA bus Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: Correcting Natoma config for non-SMP chip0: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x15 on pci0.13.0 ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 14 on pci0.15.0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs xl0: <3Com 3c905 Fast Etherlink XL 10/100BaseTX> rev 0x00 int a irq 15 on pci0.18.0 xl0: Ethernet address: 00:60:08:66:7f:ec xl0: autoneg complete, link status good (half-duplex, 10Mbps) vga0: rev 0x40 on pci0.20.0 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 on isa sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard atkbd0 irq 1 on isa psm0 irq 12 on isa psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A pcm0 not found fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa ppc0: Generic chipset (NIBBLE-only) in COMPATIBLE mode nlpt0: on ppbus 0 nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port ppi0: on ppbus 0 plip0: on ppbus 0 vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa0000 msize 131072 on isa npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface IP packet filtering initialized, divert enabled, rule-based forwarding enabled, logging limited to 100 packets/entry Waiting 15 seconds for SCSI devices to settle changing root device to da0s1a da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da0: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled da0: 8683MB (17783249 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1106C) da1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da1: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled da1: 8683MB (17783249 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1106C) WARNING: / was not properly dismounted cd0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 5 lun 0 cd0: Removable CD-ROM SCSI-2 device cd0: 10.0MB/s transfers (10.0MHz, offset 15) cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present debug kernel output after running: /usr/local/etc/cvsup/update.sh Fatal Trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x40 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf0204f1c stack pointer = 0x10:0xf654acd8 frame pointer = 0x10:0xf654ad64 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xffff, type 0x1b, DPL 0, pres 1, def 32, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL=0 current process = 1468 (cvsup) interuppt mask = kernel: type 12 trap, code=0 stopped at ffs_getpages+0x100: cmpw $0x2,0x40(%edx) trace: ffs_getpages(f654ae6c,f654f080,9000,0,f654aee8) at ffs_getpages+0x100 _end(f654aebc) at 0xf0b78485 vnode_pager_getpages(f6544e58,f654af18,9,0,f654af58) at vnode_pager_getpages+0x4e vm_pager_get_pages(f6544e58,f654af18,9,0) at vm_pager_get_pages+0x1f vm_fault(f64bdb00,28515000,1,0,f64b9520) at vm_fault+0x464 trap_pfault(f654afbc,1,28515000) at trap_pfault+0xd6 trap(27,27,82afc68,82afc68,8270a78) at trap+0x1aa calltrap() at calltrap+0x1c --- trap 0xc, eip=0x8087622, esp=0x8270a54, ebp=0x8270a78 --- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 13:56:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2274B14EEF for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:56:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12739; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:56:24 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:55:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: "Kevin Quinlan (UK)" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel crashes using FreeBSD 3.1 (reproduceable) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've heard about something similar (a consistent crash in crfree during cvsup), and don't know the reason, but an upgrade to 3.2 solved the problem. On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Kevin Quinlan (UK) wrote: > Hi, > > I asked this question on freebsd-questions a couple of weeks ago, got a > couple of answers and then I was away from work for a couple of weeks. > > One answer that I got suggested that I ask this forum, so here goes: > > I have a standard Dell Poweredge 2300 running FreeBSD 3.1. > > When running cvsup on this machine, the kernel crashes every time about a > minute after starting cvsup. > > The kernel that was used in generating the following traces and dmesg > output, is a custom kernel, but the problem is just as reproduceable with > the Generic kernel. > > I have checked the disks using the utility built in to the Adaptec > controller, but this has not revealed any problems with the disks. > > I have checked the bug database at freebsd.org, and there are a couple of > references to similar crashes, but no recommended fixes or patches. I cannot > build a current kernel as I can't get cvsup to copy the files over, so I am > interested if anyone knows what causes this problem, and if there are any > known fixes or workarounds. > > Thanks > > > > Kevin Quinlan > > > dmesg output: > > Copyright (c) 1992-1999 FreeBSD Inc. > Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 > The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. > FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #2: Wed Jun 2 18:20:26 BST 1999 > root@unixmon:/usr/src/sys/compile/PRODUCTION > Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz > Timecounter "TSC" frequency 332387832 Hz > CPU: Pentium II/Xeon/Celeron (332.39-MHz 686-class CPU) > Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x651 Stepping=1 > > Features=0x183fbff CMOV,PAT,PSE36,MMX,> > real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) > avail memory = 127397888 (124412K bytes) > Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xf02fc000. > eisa0: > Probing for devices on the EISA bus > Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > Correcting Natoma config for non-SMP > chip0: rev 0x02 on > pci0.0.0 > chip1: rev 0x15 on pci0.13.0 > ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 14 on > pci0.15.0 > ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs > xl0: <3Com 3c905 Fast Etherlink XL 10/100BaseTX> rev 0x00 int a irq 15 on > pci0.18.0 > xl0: Ethernet address: 00:60:08:66:7f:ec > xl0: autoneg complete, link status good (half-duplex, 10Mbps) > vga0: rev 0x40 on pci0.20.0 > Probing for devices on the ISA bus: > sc0 on isa > sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> > atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard > atkbd0 irq 1 on isa > psm0 irq 12 on isa > psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 > sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa > sio0: type 16550A > sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa > sio1: type 16550A > pcm0 not found > fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa > fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold > fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in > ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa > ppc0: Generic chipset (NIBBLE-only) in COMPATIBLE mode > nlpt0: on ppbus 0 > nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port > ppi0: on ppbus 0 > plip0: on ppbus 0 > vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa0000 msize 131072 on isa > npx0 on motherboard > npx0: INT 16 interface > IP packet filtering initialized, divert enabled, rule-based forwarding > enabled, logging limited to 100 packets/entry > Waiting 15 seconds for SCSI devices to settle > changing root device to da0s1a > da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 > da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device > da0: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled > da0: 8683MB (17783249 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1106C) > da1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 > da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device > da1: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled > da1: 8683MB (17783249 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1106C) > WARNING: / was not properly dismounted > cd0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 5 lun 0 > cd0: Removable CD-ROM SCSI-2 device > cd0: 10.0MB/s transfers (10.0MHz, offset 15) > cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present > > debug kernel output after running: > /usr/local/etc/cvsup/update.sh > > > Fatal Trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > fault virtual address = 0x40 > fault code = supervisor read, page not present > instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf0204f1c > stack pointer = 0x10:0xf654acd8 > frame pointer = 0x10:0xf654ad64 > code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xffff, type 0x1b, DPL 0, pres 1, def 32, > gran 1 > processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL=0 > current process = 1468 (cvsup) > interuppt mask = > kernel: type 12 trap, code=0 > stopped at ffs_getpages+0x100: cmpw $0x2,0x40(%edx) > > trace: > > ffs_getpages(f654ae6c,f654f080,9000,0,f654aee8) > at ffs_getpages+0x100 _end(f654aebc) at 0xf0b78485 > vnode_pager_getpages(f6544e58,f654af18,9,0,f654af58) > at vnode_pager_getpages+0x4e > vm_pager_get_pages(f6544e58,f654af18,9,0) at vm_pager_get_pages+0x1f > vm_fault(f64bdb00,28515000,1,0,f64b9520) at vm_fault+0x464 > trap_pfault(f654afbc,1,28515000) at trap_pfault+0xd6 > trap(27,27,82afc68,82afc68,8270a78) at trap+0x1aa > calltrap() at calltrap+0x1c > > --- trap 0xc, eip=0x8087622, esp=0x8270a54, ebp=0x8270a78 --- > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 14:47:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E214C14C85 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:47:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-222.s31.as3.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.222]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id RAA03166; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906212147.RAA03166@smtp4.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9906211413.aa28663@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:47:10 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: David Malone Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Sheldon Hearn Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 21-Jun-99 David Malone wrote: >> Folks, public feedback on the following portion of David's mail would be >> much appreciated. Since resolution of UDP wrapping would bring about the >> execution of the "we want tcpd" campaign, it's obviously something that >> both David and I would like to see finished off. > > I got one person who suggested a flag in inetd.conf which could disable > wrapping for a service. This seems like quite a good idea if we can come > up with an acceptable syntax for the flag. > > David. I suppose you could a field wrap/nowrap like the wait/nowait field.. but then you'd be butchering the sacred cow of the inetd.conf format... possibly in a non-backwards-compatible fashion. Or you could ugly-hack it using "wait/wait-wrap/nowait/nowait-wrap" which would be backwards compatible, but ugly nonetheless. Just some ideas. HTH. Personally, I would vote for the first solution, but it may not be practical. --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 14:58: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.wnm.net (earth.wnm.net [208.246.240.243]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68D6C14F39; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:57:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@wnm.net) Received: from localhost (alex@localhost) by earth.wnm.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16068; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:57:36 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:57:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Alex Charalabidis To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Doug , Sheldon Hearn , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 21 Jun 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Doug writes: > > "It doesn't work with the conf file that came with the system, but > > it does work if I change the conf file to match the documentation" is > > pretty good content in my book. Obviously he doesn't include information > > on how to repeat the problem in a verifiable way, but that doesn't (in my > > book anyway) invalidate the PR. > Whether the PR is valid or not (sure, I admit I've submitted better ones...), the discrepancy between /etc/services and inetd.conf is obvious to even the less trained eye. Doug's point about not expecting new users to RTFS applies to everyone else too when there should be no need to do so in the first place, especially with something as old hat as inetd. > The PR is wrong. Sheldon is right. It *does* work the way it ships. If > he experienced problems, I bet the real bug was that he edited > inetd.conf, HUPed inetd, and hit the "HUP clobbers the service table" > bug. > I'll accept this as an explanation, since it sounds much more reasonable than telling me I have no clue what I'm talking about. I edit inetd.conf and HUP, like pretty much everyone else in the world and will keep HUPing for many years to come. If it "clobbers the service table" on the odd occasion and keeps it clobbered until you change the service's name, well duh, please document it, I'm not psychic. :) If it also breaks on the first machine I install 3.2-R on and coincides with my discovery of aforementioned discrepancy, my guilt is limited to accepting an open invitation to jump to conclusions and I will redeem myself through a weekend penance of listening to the Spice Girls and watching Celine Dion. > The right way to fix the documentation is simply to mention what inetd > thinks the canonical names are. > > The alternative solution is to extend the format of inetd.conf to > allow specifying the service name after the 'internal' keyword, so you > could change /etc/services to read: > Dare I suggest something as straightforward as bringing inetd, inetd.conf, /etc/services and the respective manpages into sync with each other and/or reality? There's the remaining $.01 I owe, you now have my two cents. Regards -ac Alex Charalabidis WebNet Memphis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 16:50:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcpsj.pfcs.com (harlan.clark.net [168.143.10.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C9C14C27 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:50:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Harlan.Stenn@pfcs.com) Received: from mumps.pfcs.com [192.52.69.11] (HELO mumps.pfcs.com) by pcpsj.pfcs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) via ESMTP id for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brown.pfcs.com [192.52.69.44] (HELO brown.pfcs.com) by mumps.pfcs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) via ESMTP id for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost [127.0.0.1] (HELO brown.pfcs.com) by brown.pfcs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) via ESMTP id for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:50:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: dmesg date/timestamps X-Face: "csXK}xnnsH\h_ce`T#|pM]tG,6Xu.{3Rb\]&XJgVyTS'w{E+|-(}n:c(Cc* $cbtusxDP6T)Hr'k&zrwq0.3&~bAI~YJco[r.mE+K|(q]F=ZNXug:s6tyOk{VTqARy0#axm6BWti9C d Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:50:29 -0400 Message-ID: <22750.930009029@brown.pfcs.com> From: Harlan Stenn Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There are several sorts of messages that get logged by the kernel where it would be Really Nice if the messages were timestamped. If syslogd is up and running (and the data gets stored before the system dies) there is a good chance that syslogd will timestamp the messages. One way to do this would be to import something like strftime and gmtime/ localtime into the kernel. While strftime seems potentially useful and gmtime isn't all that miserable, I can't imagine throwing localtime into the kernel. As a potential alternative, I have some small, fast routines that will handle converting an epoch date into MM DD and YYYY fields. Converting "seconds since midnight" is pretty simple. I see several potential problems/issues: - I suspect many folks will want the timestamps in local time. The question is how should we get the local time offset into the kernel? I'm tempted to simply leave it as an int tz_offset/char *tzname in the kernel, and let an "outside" process deal with changing these values. If folks are Horribly Concerned about the race, we can have a value that says {UCT,xST,xDT} and keep a separate offset/tzname for xST and xDT. I have a concern that the timezone stuff will cause a small tempest... - I suspect that there are folks would want to start using international date formats instead of, say YYYYMMDD:HHMMSS[{+,-}OFFSET tzname] This may require a bit too much code for something like this. So, I guess I have the following questions for you: - Does anybody object to seeing this capability in the kernel? - Should I stick with a simple YYYYMMDD:HHMMSS[{+,-}OFFSET tzname] stamp? - Should I use sysctl for the timezone stuff? - When I'm done, should I submit this as a PR or should I ship it to somebody for review? If the latter, who? Please keep me in the Cc: list; I'm not currently subscribed to hackers. H To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 16:56: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 261BA14C27 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:56:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01066; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906212351.QAA01066@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Harlan Stenn Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dmesg date/timestamps In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:50:29 EDT." <22750.930009029@brown.pfcs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:51:33 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If syslogd is up and running (and the data gets stored before the system > dies) there is a good chance that syslogd will timestamp the messages. I don't think this would be a good idea. Syslogd does a fine job of adding timestamps; there aren't any really relevant cases in which having timestamps added by the kernel would help where syslogd couldn't have done the job itself. This service doesn't belong in the kernel. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 17:26: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcpsj.pfcs.com (harlan.clark.net [168.143.10.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1759A14C11 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:25:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Harlan.Stenn@pfcs.com) Received: from mumps.pfcs.com [192.52.69.11] (HELO mumps.pfcs.com) by pcpsj.pfcs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) via ESMTP id for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brown.pfcs.com [192.52.69.44] (HELO brown.pfcs.com) by mumps.pfcs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) via ESMTP id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost [127.0.0.1] (HELO brown.pfcs.com) by brown.pfcs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) via ESMTP id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:25:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: Harlan Stenn Subject: Re: dmesg date/timestamps In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's (mike@smith.net.au) message dated Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:51:33. <199906212351.QAA01066@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Face: "csXK}xnnsH\h_ce`T#|pM]tG,6Xu.{3Rb\]&XJgVyTS'w{E+|-(}n:c(Cc* $cbtusxDP6T)Hr'k&zrwq0.3&~bAI~YJco[r.mE+K|(q]F=ZNXug:s6tyOk{VTqARy0#axm6BWti9C d Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:25:50 -0400 Message-ID: <22837.930011150@brown.pfcs.com> From: Harlan Stenn Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Apparently there are places that log via dmesg instead of via syslog. The primary intention here is to have the messages that are in the dmesg output have timestamps. And I have had crashes/panics where the syslog information just didn't get out in time (but I might be mistaken on this one). H To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 17:32:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A02714EB3 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:32:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01272; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:28:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906220028.RAA01272@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Harlan Stenn Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dmesg date/timestamps In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:25:50 EDT." <22837.930011150@brown.pfcs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:28:08 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Apparently there are places that log via dmesg instead of via syslog. No. > The primary intention here is to have the messages that are in the dmesg > output have timestamps. No. > And I have had crashes/panics where the syslog information just didn't get > out in time (but I might be mistaken on this one). This won't help. Think about it for a moment. If the output doesn't get out in time, where is it going to be saved? -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 17:38: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BCB514BCF for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:38:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01311; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:32:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906220032.RAA01311@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mike Smith Cc: Harlan Stenn , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dmesg date/timestamps In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:28:08 PDT." <199906220028.RAA01272@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:32:48 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Apparently there are places that log via dmesg instead of via syslog. > > No. I should have been clearer here; anything that writes to the kernel message buffer is also passed to syslog. > > The primary intention here is to have the messages that are in the dmesg > > output have timestamps. > > No. This is clear; there should be no timestamps on anything in the message buffer. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 18:51:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcpsj.pfcs.com (harlan.clark.net [168.143.10.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A5514DA4 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 18:51:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Harlan.Stenn@pfcs.com) Received: from mumps.pfcs.com [192.52.69.11] (HELO mumps.pfcs.com) by pcpsj.pfcs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) via ESMTP id for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brown.pfcs.com [192.52.69.44] (HELO brown.pfcs.com) by mumps.pfcs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) via ESMTP id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 18:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost [127.0.0.1] (HELO brown.pfcs.com) by brown.pfcs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) via ESMTP id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:51:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: Harlan Stenn Subject: Re: dmesg date/timestamps In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's (mike@smith.net.au) message dated Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:28:08. <199906220028.RAA01272@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Face: "csXK}xnnsH\h_ce`T#|pM]tG,6Xu.{3Rb\]&XJgVyTS'w{E+|-(}n:c(Cc* $cbtusxDP6T)Hr'k&zrwq0.3&~bAI~YJco[r.mE+K|(q]F=ZNXug:s6tyOk{VTqARy0#axm6BWti9C d Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:51:37 -0400 Message-ID: <23001.930016297@brown.pfcs.com> From: Harlan Stenn Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Apparently there are places that log via dmesg instead of via syslog. > > No. Perhaps I'm missing something. I know that the messages I get via nfs_msg in nfs_socket.c I haven't been seeing in my syslogs, and when they show up in the dmesg output they are not timestamped. Somebody was commenting on the same thing happening to certain SCSI diagnostic messages. I've noticed this, too. Perhaps my log levels need to be adjusted. > > The primary intention here is to have the messages that are in the dmesg > > output have timestamps. > > No. Why? > > And I have had crashes/panics where the syslog information just didn't get > > out in time (but I might be mistaken on this one). > > This won't help. Think about it for a moment. If the output doesn't > get out in time, where is it going to be saved? Good point. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 18:53:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcpsj.pfcs.com (harlan.clark.net [168.143.10.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA3314DAD for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 18:53:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Harlan.Stenn@pfcs.com) Received: from mumps.pfcs.com [192.52.69.11] (HELO mumps.pfcs.com) by pcpsj.pfcs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) via ESMTP id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brown.pfcs.com [192.52.69.44] (HELO brown.pfcs.com) by mumps.pfcs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) via ESMTP id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 18:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost [127.0.0.1] (HELO brown.pfcs.com) by brown.pfcs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) via ESMTP id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:53:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mike Smith Cc: Harlan Stenn , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dmesg date/timestamps In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's (mike@smith.net.au) message dated Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:28:08. <199906220028.RAA01272@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Face: "csXK}xnnsH\h_ce`T#|pM]tG,6Xu.{3Rb\]&XJgVyTS'w{E+|-(}n:c(Cc* $cbtusxDP6T)Hr'k&zrwq0.3&~bAI~YJco[r.mE+K|(q]F=ZNXug:s6tyOk{VTqARy0#axm6BWti9C d Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:53:12 -0400 Message-ID: <23013.930016392@brown.pfcs.com> From: Harlan Stenn Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just checked - I have kern.debug in my syslog.conf, so it's clear that these messages are either not being logged via syslog (either that or I have been missing them in my logs - possible, but I doubt it). H To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 21: 3:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (clgr000532.hs.telusplanet.net [161.184.82.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07E3714E3B for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davidc@acns.ab.ca) Received: from acns.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA39091; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:02:02 GMT (envelope-from davidc@acns.ab.ca) Message-ID: <376EB65A.B5C1FC12@acns.ab.ca> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:02:02 +0000 From: Chad David Organization: ACNS Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Dan Nelson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oracle OCI code on FreeBSD References: <43549.928995505@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sheldon Hearn wrote: > On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 23:14:47 EST, Dan Nelson wrote: > > > Install the linux_devel port and resign yourself to building Linux > > executables whenever you have to talk to Oracle. > > We've _just_ been through this whole nightmare and resigned ourselves to > using a Sparc for talking to Oracle. :-( > > Ciao, > Sheldon. It seems that without the ability to link against libclntsh.so and liboci805jdbc.so there is little that can be done with Oracle on FreeBSD without just breaking down and installing Linux and compiling static binaries for every little thing that needs to be done. At 3Meg a pop that seems a little extreme even for Oracle. I am considering writing a server, and OCI 7/8 wrapper (and possibly a new, less ugly, API) for FreeBSD that would allow "native" OCI programs to be run. Is there any interest in this outside of my little world? If anyone is interested please feel free to contact me offline. I have a simple example server already running, and would be willing to make the code public for testing / review / assistance. Chad To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 22:16:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles519.castles.com [208.214.165.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C63F41514C for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:16:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00483; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:12:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906220512.WAA00483@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Harlan Stenn Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dmesg date/timestamps In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:51:37 EDT." <23001.930016297@brown.pfcs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:12:14 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Apparently there are places that log via dmesg instead of via syslog. > > > > No. > > Perhaps I'm missing something. I know that the messages I get via nfs_msg > in nfs_socket.c I haven't been seeing in my syslogs, and when they show up > in the dmesg output they are not timestamped. > > Somebody was commenting on the same thing happening to certain SCSI > diagnostic messages. I've noticed this, too. > > Perhaps my log levels need to be adjusted. No. nfs_msg() tries to write to the controlling terminal of the process related to the I/O it's talking about. It's not trying to log anything, so of course it doesn't get logged. > > > The primary intention here is to have the messages that are in the dmesg > > > output have timestamps. > > > > No. > > Why? Because it's unnecessary; you have the timestamps in the system logfiles if you need them, otherwise they are just a space-wasting nuisance. Computing any time other than seconds-from-epoch in the kernel is _wrong_. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 23:27:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hydrogen.fircrest.net (metriclient-2.uoregon.edu [128.223.172.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72F1F14F93 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.fircrest.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id XAA13477; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990621232709.29158@hydrogen.fircrest.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:27:09 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inetd/tcpd...changing hosts.allow...plus a documentation issue References: <199906210049.RAA01387@sigma.veritas.com> <79938.929957269@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <79938.929957269@axl.noc.iafrica.com>; from Sheldon Hearn on Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 11:27:49AM +0200 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sheldon Hearn scribbled this message on Jun 21: > You can expect the internal wrapping fixes and the SIGHUP bugfix to be > merged back to STABLE soon (within a week). I'm in no rush, and I'm glad > I didn't rush, since David Malone has already uncovered a bug in the > handling of maxchild, which I believe is worth fixing before the merge. > :-) you should, because this is a problem in 3.2-R... and we see this on a box we reciently upgraded from 2.2.7 to 3.2-R and it exhibits this behavior, so, when will it be merged? and what files need to be updated? -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 541 684 8449 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 "The soul contains in itself the event that shall presently befall it. The event is only the actualizing of its thought." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 21 23:33:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.svr.pol.co.uk (mail5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC79C151C0 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:33:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from s.mitchell@computer.org) Received: from modem-8.indium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.24.8] helo=valis.goatsucker.org) by mail5.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10wK7P-0007AG-00 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:33:16 +0100 Received: (from scott@localhost) by valis.goatsucker.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA00728; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:37:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from scott) Message-ID: <19990620193722.51258@goatsucker.org> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:37:22 +0100 From: Scott Mitchell To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP and Celerons... References: <87hfo4c6dj.fsf@dhcp9545042.columbus.rr.com> <199906191707.LAA86070@harmony.village.org> <87hfo4c6dj.fsf@dhcp9545042.columbus.rr.com> <199906192257.QAA87169@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199906192257.QAA87169@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Sat, Jun 19, 1999 at 04:57:25PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jun 19, 1999 at 04:57:25PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > By broke, I mean that they don't scale well due to cache effects. I > think it may just be a size thing, but it might also be a cache > coherency protocol ineffeciencies as well. The articles I've seen > show that for typical workloads, people with two celerons were getting > in the 1.5x range, while people with PIIs were getting 1.8x or so. > > Warnr Warner, Don't suppose you have a URL handy for those articles? I'm contemplating building a dual-Celery box so it's probably good to know this stuff. Although, with the Celerons over here selling for around half the price of an equivalent P-II they'd have to scale real bad to put me off the idea :-) Even if the performance sucks, I'll have an otherwise well-specced box that I can upgrade to P-II's as I can afford it. Cheers, Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID | "Eagles may soar, but weasels London, England | 0x54B171B9 | don't get sucked into jet engines" s.mitchell@computer.org | 0xAA775B8B | -- Anon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 0:52:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB326151BE for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:52:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shaun@online.no) Received: from localhost (ti01a25-0022.dialup.online.no [130.67.3.22]) by online.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10865 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:52:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from shaun@localhost) by localhost (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA92614 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:10:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from shaun) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 03:25:00 +0200 From: Shaun Jurrens To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heavily loaded nfs/amd gets stuck Message-ID: <19990620032500.B6661@dakota.online.no> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Studded on Fri, Jun 18, 1999 at 11:07:39AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 18, 1999 at 11:07:39AM -0700, Studded wrote: #> No action on this in -current for a few days, so let's try #> hackers. In response to some suggestions I tried raising the number of #> nfsiod's to 20 (the max) and increasing the sysctl cache value to 10, #> still no joy. #> Skipped the extra blah here for size. #> #> Ok, another interesting development. What the script I'm running #> does is go through each user account on our sun servers, reads a file, #> then uses certain values from that file to print out conf files on the #> local freebsd server that's acting as an NFS client (and crashing). So #> it's mounting a directory, reading 250 files, mounting the next directory, #> reading the next 250 files, and so on for a total of 80 directories. #> #> I changed the script so that after each reading the 250 files for #> each directory it did a 'sleep 10' before it started again. This allowed #> the script to run through to completion. #> #> So, I'm still open to new things to try here. Does anyone have any #> suggestions? I've been looking at nfsiod, all I had started was the #> default 4 because I thought they would spawn more if they needed more, but #> apparently they don't. Would more of those help? Would turning them off #> altogether help? I *really* need help with this since my boss is #> (justifiably I think) loathe to put this box into service without a little #> more concrete evidence that NFS can hold up. Would it be better to send #> this to -hackers? Maybe file a PR? I don't mean to sound like a pest, and #> yes I know that we're all volunteers, etc. But after wheedling for 4 #> months to try freebsd I'm kind of feeling the pinch here. :-/ #> Studded, you might try to look at /usr/share/doc/handbook/nfs.html. It might help to use a high quality network card and maybe track the traffic between the boxes to see if the mentioned packet problems show up. Just thought you might have missed the obvious. -- Yours truly, Shaun D. Jurrens shaun.jurrens@stud.uni-regensburg.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 0:55:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8992C151BE for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:55:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA71181; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:55:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id BAA04782; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199906220753.BAA04782@harmony.village.org> To: Scott Mitchell Subject: Re: SMP and Celerons... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:37:22 BST." <19990620193722.51258@goatsucker.org> References: <19990620193722.51258@goatsucker.org> <87hfo4c6dj.fsf@dhcp9545042.columbus.rr.com> <199906191707.LAA86070@harmony.village.org> <87hfo4c6dj.fsf@dhcp9545042.columbus.rr.com> <199906192257.QAA87169@harmony.village.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:53:06 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19990620193722.51258@goatsucker.org> Scott Mitchell writes: : Don't suppose you have a URL handy for those articles? I'm contemplating : building a dual-Celery box so it's probably good to know this stuff. : Although, with the Celerons over here selling for around half the price of : an equivalent P-II they'd have to scale real bad to put me off the idea :-) : Even if the performance sucks, I'll have an otherwise well-specced box that : I can upgrade to P-II's as I can afford it. You might want to look at Ars Technica http://www.arstechnica.com/'s back issues, or HardOCP (http://www.hardocp.com). bxboards (http://www.bxboards.com/ pops up from tiem to time as well. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 1:18: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B915314D4F; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:17:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wLkD-000Cwx-00; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:17:25 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Doug Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@wnm.net Reply-To: sheldonh@uunet.co.za, Doug , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , alex@wnm.net, freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:10:47 MST." Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:17:25 +0200 Message-ID: <49782.930039445@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:10:47 MST, Doug wrote: > In fact, the man page is correct, however the inetd code currently > has an outdated version of the canonical name. Thus, at minimum the > man page should be udpated to reflect this reality. A better solution > would be to remove the hard coded values in the code, and fix the > config file. It took me a bit of playing to find the problem, since the PR doesn't say " if I use service name ``auth'' instead of ``inetd'', I get the following error message from inetd: internal service auth unknown " That's the kind of thing I was looking for when I asked you (twice) to send a useful "How-To-Repeat". It doesn't help that people who've run into the problem understand the vague description provided, because I haven't run into it. Now that I understand the problem, I'd like to put forward this proposal: The manual pages for services(5), inetd(8) and inetd.conf(5) are adequate if inetd accepts both canonical service names _and_ aliases. Therefore a healthy, backward-compatible change that is unlikely to accept existing users is to teach inetd to understand service name aliases. I'm not yet saying that this is possible, but I am saying that I'll look into it if it'd make you happy. Whatever your preference is, I'd suggest dropping freebsd-hackers from further discussion. Now that we all understand each other, it's probably more appropriate that the conversation continue on PR feedback only. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 1:32: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC3F14D4F for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:31:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wLxy-000D7j-00; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:31:38 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: John Baldwin Cc: David Malone , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:47:10 -0400." <199906212147.RAA03166@smtp4.erols.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:31:38 +0200 Message-ID: <50450.930040298@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:47:10 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > I suppose you could a field wrap/nowrap like the wait/nowait field.. > but then you'd be butchering the sacred cow of the inetd.conf > format... I don't see why people want to make inetd responsible for per-case exclusions from the default wrapping behaviour -- that's what hosts.allow was for. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 1:32:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14D27152C5; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:32:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA13902; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:02:42 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA99957; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:02:53 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:02:52 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Message-ID: <19990622180252.J76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199906220823.BAA01443@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906220823.BAA01443@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 01:23:24AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 1:23:24 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >> >> Anyway, i don't think you are asking for too much - of what use is a shiny >> new design of a new subsystem in the very basic FreeBSD architecture if just >> some handful few people knew how it works and how to use it ? > > Gosh, that would make it just like every other shiny new subsystem. > > Folks, just cut the carping and write your own documentation. The > architects can't, Of course they can. > and won't write it for you. And they might, too. phk has frequently expressed a desire to either write documentation on existing systems, or at least help others do so. I'm in the process of writing technical docs for Vinum. The biggest problem is knowing what to write and how to describe it. > It has never happened that way (anywhere, on any project), Of course it has. It's just uncommon in the FreeBSD environment. In many large projects, you don't do any code until you have a clear definition of what you're going to do. > and it never will. My father never had a computer, and his father never did, so I never will have one. What an argument. > Documentation is written after the fact, by someone else. That's the worst kind of documentation. In fact, most UNIX documentation is written by the authors. After the fact, admittedly. Hopefully the change of subject line and recipients will get some more representative views on this subject. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 1:45:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles519.castles.com [208.214.165.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F29151CF; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:45:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA01553; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:42:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906220842.BAA01553@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mike Smith , hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:02:52 +0930." <19990622180252.J76907@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:42:05 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > And they might, too. phk has frequently expressed a desire to either > write documentation on existing systems, or at least help others do > so. No offence meant, but we can see how much of this has actually materialised. > > It has never happened that way (anywhere, on any project), > > Of course it has. It's just uncommon in the FreeBSD environment. In > many large projects, you don't do any code until you have a clear > definition of what you're going to do. It's uncommon in _most_ environments. Or perhaps tech writers exist for some other purpose? > > and it never will. > > My father never had a computer, and his father never did, so I never > will have one. What an argument. The circumstances aren't comparable. > > Documentation is written after the fact, by someone else. > > That's the worst kind of documentation. In fact, most UNIX > documentation is written by the authors. After the fact, admittedly. In fact, most Unix documentation is never written, being my original point. > Hopefully the change of subject line and recipients will get some more > representative views on this subject. Perhaps I should have been clearer; the sort of documentation that the original set of plaintiffs were asking for is the mythical "describe everything as it was, is and will be, and make it constantly representative and up to date". These are the same people that will complain about disparities between any extant documentation and reality, as well as carp incessantly about the lack of some form of documentation other than what already exists ("why isn't there a permuted index?" "where's the sanskrit translation?" "my cat can't read _this_!"). As always, complaining about the _lack_ of something is the wrong approach for this project. Step up and fill the gap, or expose yourself to criticism for failing to do so. There has to be a way to make a verb from Brett Glass' name, but I'm sure you get the point. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 2: 3: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A7A2151CF; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 02:03:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA77911; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:02:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Alex Charalabidis Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Doug , Sheldon Hearn , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: misc/11796: Bad lines in 3.2-RELEASE inetd.conf] References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 22 Jun 1999 11:02:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: Alex Charalabidis's message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:57:35 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 39 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alex Charalabidis writes: > On 21 Jun 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > The PR is wrong. Sheldon is right. It *does* work the way it ships. If > > he experienced problems, I bet the real bug was that he edited > > inetd.conf, HUPed inetd, and hit the "HUP clobbers the service table" > > bug. > I'll accept this as an explanation, since it sounds much more reasonable > than telling me I have no clue what I'm talking about. I edit inetd.conf > and HUP, like pretty much everyone else in the world and will keep HUPing > for many years to come. If it "clobbers the service table" on the odd > occasion and keeps it clobbered until you change the service's name, well > duh, please document it, I'm not psychic. :) We have no intention of documenting it, since the bug has been fixed. > If it also breaks on the > first machine I install 3.2-R on and coincides with my discovery of > aforementioned discrepancy, my guilt is limited to accepting an open > invitation to jump to conclusions and I will redeem myself through a > weekend penance of listening to the Spice Girls and watching Celine Dion. We're not *that* mad at you. Just ten 'power to the world' and five 'Mmmm-bop' will do. > > The alternative solution is to extend the format of inetd.conf to > > allow specifying the service name after the 'internal' keyword, so you > > could change /etc/services to read: > Dare I suggest something as straightforward as bringing inetd, inetd.conf, > /etc/services and the respective manpages into sync with each other and/or > reality? It's not the right solution. They'll only get out of sync again. The correct solution is to stop pretending /etc/services means anything to inetd except as a way to map service names to port numbers. It doesn't, and never did. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 2:29:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 849B814C85; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 02:29:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id LAA20270; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:25:16 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:25:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Mike Smith Cc: Greg Lehey , hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-Reply-To: <199906220842.BAA01553@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In short: Where's the patch? And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle. Writing the manual after the fact or manuals written by someone else are far easier to get coherent and useful. Nick > Perhaps I should have been clearer; the sort of documentation that the > original set of plaintiffs were asking for is the mythical "describe > everything as it was, is and will be, and make it constantly > representative and up to date". These are the same people that will > complain about disparities between any extant documentation and > reality, as well as carp incessantly about the lack of some form > of documentation other than what already exists ("why isn't there a > permuted index?" "where's the sanskrit translation?" "my cat can't read > _this_!"). > > As always, complaining about the _lack_ of something is the wrong > approach for this project. Step up and fill the gap, or expose > yourself to criticism for failing to do so. There has to be a way to > make a verb from Brett Glass' name, but I'm sure you get the point. > > -- > \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith > \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 2:59: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hcsext.hcs.de (hcshh.hcs.de [194.123.40.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EF2E314D05; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 02:58:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hm@hcs.de) Received: from hcswork.hcs.de([192.76.124.5]) (2576 bytes) by hcsext.hcs.de via sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:58:51 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.104 1998-Nov-20 #1 built 1998-Dec-11) Received: by hcswork.hcs.de (Smail3.1.29.0 #12) id m10wNKF-0000dCC; Tue, 22 Jun 99 11:58 METDST Message-Id: From: hm@hcs.de (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-Reply-To: from Nick Hibma at "Jun 22, 99 11:25:13 am" To: nick.hibma@jrc.it Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:58:43 +0200 (METDST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: hm@hcs.de Organization: HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1497 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From the keyboard of Nick Hibma: > And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something > might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to > market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who > basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle. In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave like behaving in commercial environments. I know that it is current behaviour, much easier and obviously a commonly accepted thing that code, subsystem and/or changes are not and need not to be documented, but this is not a reason in itself for not changing this. Also, i think that the argument Mike and others use: "don't complain for a lack of things, contribute!" - which i use and used all the time - is not valid for this issue: at least i can't contribute because i don't understand things (now someone could argue, that i'm wrong here ...). The last thing i want is a flamewar on this topic and i don't write this because i want to piss onto someones shoes. And i don't write about a man page for "ls" or "more" but a fundamental change in FreeBSD's inner architecture. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis Tel +49 40 559747-70 HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH Fax +49 40 559747-77 Oldesloer Strasse 97-99 Mail hm [at] hcs.de 22457 Hamburg WWW http://www.hcs.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 3: 7: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gizmo.internode.com.au (gizmo.internode.com.au [192.83.231.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D43914BCC; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 03:06:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@gizmo.internode.com.au) Received: (from newton@localhost) by gizmo.internode.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA36037; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:34:14 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from newton) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199906221004.TAA36037@gizmo.internode.com.au> Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) To: hm@hcs.de Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:34:14 +0930 (CST) Cc: nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Jun 22, 99 11:58:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something > > might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to > > market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who > > basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle. > > In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave > like behaving in commercial environments. Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation standards. - mark ---- Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 3:15:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D834314BB8; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 03:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id MAA22630; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:14:29 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:14:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Mark Newton Cc: hm@hcs.de, mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-Reply-To: <199906221004.TAA36037@gizmo.internode.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something > > > might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to > > > market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who > > > basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle. > > > > In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave > > like behaving in commercial environments. > > Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation standards. Hm, it might be hard to find people using FreeBSD without any technical skills whatsoever. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 4: 4:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765F414BDE for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:04:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-104.s41.as1.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.104]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15869; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906221108.HAA15869@smtp2.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <50450.930040298@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:04:29 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Sheldon Hearn Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, David Malone , John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-Jun-99 Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:47:10 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > >> I suppose you could a field wrap/nowrap like the wait/nowait field.. >> but then you'd be butchering the sacred cow of the inetd.conf >> format... > > I don't see why people want to make inetd responsible for per-case > exclusions from the default wrapping behaviour -- that's what > hosts.allow was for. Because that only controls access, it does not actually turn wrapping off. Wrapping also logs as well as access control. If you use ftp -l -l, then the ftp daemon will produce the same log messages, thus there is no need to have them twice, except to eat up disk space. And if you are only using wrapping for logging purposes, then turning off wrapping on ftpd then cuts out the duplicate messages, allowing you to store more actual logs instead of wasting space on dup's. It's also more orthogonal to allow an on/off switch for each service. > Ciao, > Sheldon. --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 4: 9:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0967914BE3 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:09:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wOQe-000O8x-00; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:09:24 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, David Malone , John Baldwin Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:04:29 -0400." <199906221108.HAA15869@smtp2.erols.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:09:23 +0200 Message-ID: <92810.930049763@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:04:29 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > Because that only controls access, it does not actually turn wrapping off. Let me be more specific; if you don't want ftpd wrapped, just add ftpd: ALL : ALLOW to your /etc/hosts.allow . A stock configuration won't log successful connections, so you won't see any logging at all. Asking for command-line switches and/or inetd.conf directives that allow per-case exclusions seems to me like asking for duplicate functionality that isn't required (or is that tautology? :-). Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 4:40:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.oeno.com (ns.oeno.com [194.100.99.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 71D4C15317 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:40:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@ns.oeno.com) Received: (qmail 28613 invoked by uid 1001); 22 Jun 1999 11:40:11 -0000 To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: wollman@freebsd.org Subject: TCP input processing bug From: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Date: 22 Jun 1999 14:37:44 +0300 Message-ID: <86k8swqxdj.fsf@not.demophon.com> Lines: 45 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think I've located a problem in TCP input processing...and it has been there for quite a while. It breaks half-open connection discovery for many cases since version 1.15 of netinet/tcp_input.c (committed by Garrett Wollman, which is why this is Cc'd to him), although that isn't where the (presumably) incorrect behavior was introduced. The half-open connection discovery problem can be reproduced easily, the conditions required are: - Machine A thinks it has an established connection with machine B - Machine B disagrees (it has crashed, the network has been down, maybe has been recently assigned the IP of another machine that disconnected unnicely etc., there are a lot of conditions that can cause this) - Machine B tries to connect to machine A using the same source port number as the half-open connection - Machine B selects a sequence number below the current window expected by machine A Machine B sends a SYN, but gets nothing as a reply (it should be getting an ACK), no matter how many times it tries. Machine A will keep the connection in an established state until it tries to send data (depending on the application, this may never happen) or is timed out by keepalives. This is particularly nasty if the boot procedure of machine B establishes a TCP connection to machine A - after a crash, it'll always try to use the same port number and never succeed. Basically, in the tcp_input function, just before ACK processing, when 'goto drop' is done if ACK isn't set, TF_ACKNOW might be set in tp->t_flags, but the ACK is never sent because tcp_output is never called. This can be fixed by checking for TF_ACKNOW in the drop: case and calling tcp_output if it is set. However, such a modification can change the behavior of a considerable number of cases so I think it needs careful verification. Anyone who knows the TCP code, please comment! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 7: 4: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CBA814E08 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:03:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id XAA07737; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:33:55 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA28548; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:34:24 +0930 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:34:21 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: "Brian F. Feldman" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern imgact_gzip.c In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY="0-1974609729-930028084=:60297" Content-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-1974609729-930028084=:60297 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:08:04 -0400 (EDT) > From: Brian F. Feldman > To: Kris Kennaway > Cc: Peter Wemm , Jean-Marc Zucconi , hoek@freebsd.org, cvs-committers@freebsd.org, cvs-all@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern imgact_gzip.c > > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: > > > > > Ahh yes, I forgot that / was read-write for MFS boots. However: > > > > > > #!/bin/sh > > > skip=18 > > > if /usr/bin/tail +$skip $0 | gzip -cd > /tmp/gztmp$$; then > > > chmod 700 /tmp/gztmp$$ > > > prog="`echo $0 | sed 's|^.*/||'`" > > > if /bin/ln /tmp/gztmp$$ "/tmp/$prog" 2>/dev/null; then > > > trap '/bin/rm -f /tmp/gztmp$$ "/tmp/$prog"; exit $res' 0 > > > (/bin/sleep 5; /bin/rm -f /tmp/gztmp$$ "/tmp/$prog") 2>/dev/null & > > > /tmp/"$prog" ${1+"$@"}; res=$? > > > else > > > trap '/bin/rm -f /tmp/gztmp$$; exit $res' 0 > > > (/bin/sleep 5; /bin/rm -f /tmp/gztmp$$) 2>/dev/null & > > > /tmp/gztmp$$ ${1+"$@"}; res=$? > > > fi > > > else > > > echo Cannot decompress $0; exit 1 > > > fi; exit $res > > > > This is the unpatched (insecure) version of gzexe (all the /tmp/gztmp$$'s), > > but it's functionally the same. > > > > > Now, if tail, sh, gzip, chmod, ln, sleep, rm, etc are all in the gzexe'd > > > crunched linked binary, how is it supposed to decompress itself? "sh" itself > > > is part of the crunched binary, so what is going to decode sh when sh itself > > > is a shell script? > > > > Yes, that seems to be a problem - gzexe depends on those executables. However > > it shouldn't be too hard to recode this decompressor in C to perform the same > > job without any external dependencies. The question is whether that would be > > easier than fixing the kernel to handle gzipped ELF binaries transparently - > > almost certainly it would be. > > How's what I attached? [Context left in for cross-post to hackers] Hmm..I don't have a deflate on my system. This should be linked static as well, otherwise you need the runtime linker + libraries, and that has a 69k overhead (when stripped). Possibly this could be optimized further..I don't know if this is small enough to be useful however. Mike's suggestion of a gzipped MFS image is probably best for things like boot floppies. Kris > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ > green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ > FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | > http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ > ----- "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Unknown --0-1974609729-930028084=:60297 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; NAME=zexe Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: ATTACHMENT; FILENAME=zexe IyEvYmluL3NoDQpvZj1gYmFzZW5hbWUgJDFgX3oNCmNzPSRvZi5jDQpjYXQg PiAkY3MgPDwgLg0KI2luY2x1ZGUgPHN5cy90eXBlcy5oPg0KI2luY2x1ZGUg PHN5cy9tbWFuLmg+DQojaW5jbHVkZSA8c3lzL3dhaXQuaD4NCiNpbmNsdWRl IDxzeXMvc3RhdC5oPg0KDQojaW5jbHVkZSA8emxpYi5oPg0KI2luY2x1ZGUg PGVyci5oPg0KI2luY2x1ZGUgPHVuaXN0ZC5oPg0KI2luY2x1ZGUgPHN0ZGlv Lmg+DQoNCiQoZGVmbGF0ZSA8ICQxIHwgZmlsZTJjICd1X2NoYXIgcHJvZ3Jh bVtdID0geyAnICcgfTsnKQ0KDQppbnQNCm1haW4oaW50IGFyZ2MsIGNoYXIg Kiphcmd2KSB7DQoJaW50IHN0YXR1czsNCgl1X2xvbmcgZGVzdExlbiA9IHNp emVvZihwcm9ncmFtKTsNCgl2b2lkICpvdXRwdXRhZGRyOw0KCWNoYXIgb3V0 cHV0bmFtZVsyNTZdOw0KCWludCBvdXRwdXRmZDsNCg0KCXNucHJpbnRmKG91 dHB1dG5hbWUsIHNpemVvZihvdXRwdXRuYW1lKSwgIiVzLlhYWFhYWCIsIGFy Z3ZbMF0pOw0KCWlmICgob3V0cHV0ZmQgPSBta3N0ZW1wKG91dHB1dG5hbWUp KSA9PSAtMSkNCgkJZXJyKDEsICJta3N0ZW1wIik7DQoJb3V0cHV0YWRkciA9 IG1tYXAoTlVMTCwgZGVzdExlbiwgUFJPVF9XUklURSwgTUFQX1NIQVJFRCwg b3V0cHV0ZmQsIDApOw0KCWlmIChvdXRwdXRhZGRyID09IE1BUF9GQUlMRUQp DQoJCWVycigxLCAibW1hcCIpOw0KDQoJc3RhdHVzID0gdW5jb21wcmVzcyhv dXRwdXRhZGRyLCAmZGVzdExlbiwgcHJvZ3JhbSwgc2l6ZW9mKHByb2dyYW0p KTsNCglzd2l0Y2ggKHN0YXR1cykgew0KCWNhc2UgWl9NRU1fRVJST1I6DQoJ CWVycigxLCAiWl9NRU1fRVJST1IiKTsNCgljYXNlIFpfQlVGX0VSUk9SOg0K CQllcnIoMSwgIlpfQlVGX0VSUk9SIik7DQoJY2FzZSBaX0RBVEFfRVJST1I6 DQoJCWVycigxLCAiWl9EQVRBX0VSUk9SIik7DQoJZGVmYXVsdDoNCgkJYnJl YWs7DQoJfQ0KCW1zeW5jKG91dHB1dGFkZHIsIDAsIE1TX1NZTkMpOw0KCW11 bm1hcChvdXRwdXRhZGRyLCBkZXN0TGVuKTsNCglmdHJ1bmNhdGUob3V0cHV0 ZmQsIGRlc3RMZW4pOw0KCWZjaG1vZChvdXRwdXRmZCwgMDc1NSk7DQoJY2xv c2Uob3V0cHV0ZmQpOw0KCXN3aXRjaCAoZm9yaygpKSB7DQoJCWNhc2UgMDoN CgkJCWV4ZWN2KG91dHB1dG5hbWUsIGFyZ3YpOw0KCQljYXNlIC0xOg0KCQkJ ZXJyKDEsICJmb3JrIik7DQoJCWRlZmF1bHQ6DQoJCQl3YWl0KCZzdGF0dXMp Ow0KCX0NCgl1bmxpbmsob3V0cHV0bmFtZSk7DQoJZXhpdChzdGF0dXMpOw0K fQ0KLg0KY2MgLWx6IC1PIC1XYWxsICRjcyAtbyAkb2YNCnJtICRjcw0K --0-1974609729-930028084=:60297-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 7:26:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D841B1534E for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:26:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA61066; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:26:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Kris Kennaway Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern imgact_gzip.c In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:08:04 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Brian F. Feldman > > To: Kris Kennaway > > Cc: Peter Wemm , Jean-Marc Zucconi , > hoek@freebsd.org, cvs-committers@freebsd.org, cvs-all@freebsd.org > > Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern imgact_gzip.c > > > > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: > > > > > > > Ahh yes, I forgot that / was read-write for MFS boots. However: > > > > > > > > #!/bin/sh > > > > skip=18 > > > > if /usr/bin/tail +$skip $0 | gzip -cd > /tmp/gztmp$$; then > > > > chmod 700 /tmp/gztmp$$ > > > > prog="`echo $0 | sed 's|^.*/||'`" > > > > if /bin/ln /tmp/gztmp$$ "/tmp/$prog" 2>/dev/null; then > > > > trap '/bin/rm -f /tmp/gztmp$$ "/tmp/$prog"; exit $res' 0 > > > > (/bin/sleep 5; /bin/rm -f /tmp/gztmp$$ "/tmp/$prog") 2>/dev/null & > > > > /tmp/"$prog" ${1+"$@"}; res=$? > > > > else > > > > trap '/bin/rm -f /tmp/gztmp$$; exit $res' 0 > > > > (/bin/sleep 5; /bin/rm -f /tmp/gztmp$$) 2>/dev/null & > > > > /tmp/gztmp$$ ${1+"$@"}; res=$? > > > > fi > > > > else > > > > echo Cannot decompress $0; exit 1 > > > > fi; exit $res > > > > > > This is the unpatched (insecure) version of gzexe (all the /tmp/gztmp$$'s), > > > but it's functionally the same. > > > > > > > Now, if tail, sh, gzip, chmod, ln, sleep, rm, etc are all in the gzexe'd > > > > crunched linked binary, how is it supposed to decompress itself? "sh" itself > > > > is part of the crunched binary, so what is going to decode sh when sh itself > > > > is a shell script? > > > > > > Yes, that seems to be a problem - gzexe depends on those executables. However > > > it shouldn't be too hard to recode this decompressor in C to perform the same > > > job without any external dependencies. The question is whether that would be > > > easier than fixing the kernel to handle gzipped ELF binaries transparently - > > > almost certainly it would be. > > > > How's what I attached? > > [Context left in for cross-post to hackers] > > Hmm..I don't have a deflate on my system. This should be linked static as > well, otherwise you need the runtime linker + libraries, and that has a 69k > overhead (when stripped). Possibly this could be optimized further..I don't > know if this is small enough to be useful however. It's a proof of concept, it didn't need to be static. I don't have a program to do deflate either. What I know is that you said it would be hard, but it was not very hard to make a framework to do what gzexe does in C. > > Mike's suggestion of a gzipped MFS image is probably best for things like boot > floppies. > > Kris > > > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ > > green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ > > FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | > > http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ > > > > ----- > "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, > because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." > -- Unknown > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 7:47:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60B5614F3D for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id AAA08248; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:17:42 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA30101; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:18:10 +0930 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:18:09 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: "Brian F. Feldman" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern imgact_gzip.c In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > > Hmm..I don't have a deflate on my system. This should be linked static as > > well, otherwise you need the runtime linker + libraries, and that has a 69k > > overhead (when stripped). Possibly this could be optimized further..I don't > > know if this is small enough to be useful however. > > It's a proof of concept, it didn't need to be static. I don't have a program > to do deflate either. What I know is that you said it would be hard, but > it was not very hard to make a framework to do what gzexe does in C. Actually: > > > > The question is whether that would be easier than fixing the > > > > kernel to handle gzipped ELF binaries transparently - > > > > almost certainly it would be. I said it would be easy(ier) :) FWIW, compiling libc.a and libz.a with -Os brings the overhead down to 67416 bytes per executable. Linked dynamically it's 4829 bytes (i.e. the other 62k is library code), so it doesn't look like there's much room for improvement. Kris ----- "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 7:55:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from penelope.skunk.org (unknown [208.133.204.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8EE914CB0 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:55:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ben@penelope.skunk.org) Received: from localhost (ben@localhost) by penelope.skunk.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15919; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:53:28 GMT Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:53:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Ben Rosengart To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: John Baldwin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Malone , John Baldwin Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-Reply-To: <92810.930049763@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:04:29 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > > Because that only controls access, it does not actually turn wrapping off. > > Let me be more specific; if you don't want ftpd wrapped, just add > > ftpd: ALL : ALLOW > > to your /etc/hosts.allow . A stock configuration won't log successful > connections, so you won't see any logging at all. But if you can turn off wrapping, you can save a fork()/exec() per connection. -- Ben UNIX Systems Engineer, Skunk Group StarMedia Network, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 8: 2:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59CC0152D3 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:02:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wS3T-0000a4-00; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:01:43 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Ben Rosengart Cc: John Baldwin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Malone , John Baldwin Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:53:28 GMT." Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:01:43 +0200 Message-ID: <2235.930063703@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:53:28 GMT, Ben Rosengart wrote: > But if you can turn off wrapping, you can save a fork()/exec() per > connection. The only exec is an execv() at line 740 of inetd.c, which launches the program that will service a request. It's done irrespective of wrapping. So you can save a fork, not an exec. Forks are cheap. I'm not really opposed to having command-line options for per-case exclusions -- I'm just opposed to doing the work myself if it doesn't gain us anything significant. :-) Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 8: 4:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from penelope.skunk.org (unknown [208.133.204.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5208514A13 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:04:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ben@penelope.skunk.org) Received: from localhost (ben@localhost) by penelope.skunk.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16028; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:02:42 GMT Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:02:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Ben Rosengart To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: John Baldwin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Malone , John Baldwin Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-Reply-To: <2235.930063703@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:53:28 GMT, Ben Rosengart wrote: > > > But if you can turn off wrapping, you can save a fork()/exec() per > > connection. > > The only exec is an execv() at line 740 of inetd.c, which launches the > program that will service a request. It's done irrespective of wrapping. > So you can save a fork, not an exec. Forks are cheap. Oh, duh. I was still thinking in terms of tcpd, not libwrap. -- Ben UNIX Systems Engineer, Skunk Group StarMedia Network, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 8:18: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 838C5151D3 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:18:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA91576; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:17:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Kris Kennaway Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern imgact_gzip.c In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > > > > Hmm..I don't have a deflate on my system. This should be linked static as > > > well, otherwise you need the runtime linker + libraries, and that has a 69k > > > overhead (when stripped). Possibly this could be optimized further..I don't > > > know if this is small enough to be useful however. > > > > It's a proof of concept, it didn't need to be static. I don't have a program > > to do deflate either. What I know is that you said it would be hard, but > > it was not very hard to make a framework to do what gzexe does in C. > > Actually: > > > > > > The question is whether that would be easier than fixing the > > > > > kernel to handle gzipped ELF binaries transparently - > > > > > almost certainly it would be. > > I said it would be easy(ier) :) > > FWIW, compiling libc.a and libz.a with -Os brings the overhead down to 67416 > bytes per executable. Linked dynamically it's 4829 bytes (i.e. the other 62k > is library code), so it doesn't look like there's much room for improvement. This sure seems like enough to replace a.out gzip support. Taking the compression/decompression routines out of the kernel would save memory and result in roughly the same amount of space being used. If we had a deflate program, this would work quite well =) > > Kris > > ----- > "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, > because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." > -- Unknown > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 9:20: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (news.IAE.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B08914E8D for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:20:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@bowtie.nl) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.9.1/8.9.1) with IAEhv.nl id SAA04857 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:20:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bowtie.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29723 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:17:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marc@bowtie.nl) Message-Id: <199906221617.SAA29723@bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: mysterious problem with 2.2.x binary on 3.1 Reply-To: marc@bowtie.nl Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:17:33 +0200 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have a mysterious problem with running a 2.2.6 binary (dynamically linked) on a 3.1 box. The crazy thing is that it has worked flawlessly before. After doing a bit of development and compiling it again, I get segfaults when I try to run it on the 3.1 box. When I try it with an a.out gdb (ftp'ed from the 2.2.6 box) I get this: > ./gdb web-ssql GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.16 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1996 Free Software Foundation, Inc... (gdb) r -v Starting program: /home/bowtie/web-ssql -v reading register eip (#8): Bad address. (gdb) (3.1) ldd web-ssql: > ldd web-ssql web-ssql: -lcrypt.2 => /usr/lib/aout/libcrypt.so.2.0 (0x200a3000) -lm.2 => /usr/lib/aout/libm.so.2.0 (0x200b8000) -lc.3 => /usr/lib/aout/libc.so.3.1 (0x200d2000) (2.2.6) ldd web-ssql: web-ssql: -lcrypt.2 => /usr/lib/libcrypt.so.2.0 (0x200ab000) -lm.2 => /usr/lib/libm.so.2.0 (0x200ae000) -lc.3 => /usr/lib/libc.so.3.1 (0x200c8000) When I link the binary statically it works ok, but unfortunately I need it to be dynamically linked. Does anyone recognize this behaviour? And even better knows whats going on? Regards, Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 10:31:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outland.cyberwar.com (outland.cyberwar.com [206.88.128.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1208F1545A for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:31:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billg@cyberwar.com) Received: from localhost (billg@localhost) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03591 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:31:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:31:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bill G." To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Serial Console Wierdness Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I got a serial console working on COM2, to which I have connected another FreeBSD box. I connect with 'cu' fine, but I'm running into a couple of problems which I haven't been able to find and answer for. o When I connect, when the machine is first turned on, I get disconnected twice during the boot up sequence (cu reports Got hangup signal) -- looks like when the sio1 device is probed, and also when getty runs. o 9600 was rather slow, so I changed it to 115200, which worked, however I had a few problems with terminal display -- any output that scrolls down past the bottom of the screen gets 'garbled'. (IE, I run clear; ls -l / -- the first 23 lines look ok then it gets messed up). Same results from console mode of my client machine and from an xterm. I thought that 115200 might be too fast, so I slowed it down to 38400, but same trouble. I'm not sure if this occured at 9600. Any thoughts / ideas / suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 10:39:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pallas.veritas.com (pallas.veritas.com [204.177.156.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11AB157E4 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:39:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Received: from megami.veritas.com (megami.veritas.com [192.203.46.101]) by pallas.veritas.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA21365; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sigma.veritas.com([192.203.46.125]) (2414 bytes) by megami.veritas.com via sendmail with P:esmtp/R:smart_host/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #3 built 1999-Jan-25) Received: from sigma (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sigma.veritas.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13462; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Message-Id: <199906221739.KAA13462@sigma.veritas.com> From: Aaron Smith To: "Bill G." Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serial Console Wierdness In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:31:33 EDT." Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:39:11 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 'cu' hangs up really easily. use 'kermit' (it's in ports) and the hangup problem will disappear. i tried to find an option to cu to modify its hangup behavior but to no avail. your second problem sounds like it could be terminal sizing -- have you tried this with a default 80x24 window, set and exported TERM properly, etc? i was not able to get my console to work properly past 38400 baud; i am not sure why. 38400 has been just fine speed-wise for me, though, so i'm not that upset. :) (also see http://www.arctic.org/~aaron/tips/freebsd-serial-console) aaron On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:31:33 EDT, "Bill G." writes: >I got a serial console working on COM2, to which I have connected >another FreeBSD box. I connect with 'cu' fine, but I'm running into >a couple of problems which I haven't been able to find and answer >for. > >o When I connect, when the machine is first turned on, I get > disconnected twice during the boot up sequence (cu reports > Got hangup signal) -- looks like when the sio1 device is > probed, and also when getty runs. > >o 9600 was rather slow, so I changed it to 115200, which worked, > however I had a few problems with terminal display -- any > output that scrolls down past the bottom of the screen gets > 'garbled'. (IE, I run clear; ls -l / -- the first 23 lines > look ok then it gets messed up). Same results from console > mode of my client machine and from an xterm. I thought that > 115200 might be too fast, so I slowed it down to 38400, but > same trouble. I'm not sure if this occured at 9600. > >Any thoughts / ideas / suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 11:19: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5488914BEA; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:18:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA61732; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:19:47 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:19:47 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Hellmuth Michaelis Cc: nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > >From the keyboard of Nick Hibma: > > > And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something > > might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to > > market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who > > basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle. > > In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave > like behaving in commercial environments. > > I know that it is current behaviour, much easier and obviously a commonly > accepted thing that code, subsystem and/or changes are not and need not > to be documented, but this is not a reason in itself for not changing this. > > Also, i think that the argument Mike and others use: "don't complain for a > lack of things, contribute!" - which i use and used all the time - is not > valid for this issue: at least i can't contribute because i don't understand > things (now someone could argue, that i'm wrong here ...). > > The last thing i want is a flamewar on this topic and i don't write this > because i want to piss onto someones shoes. And i don't write about a > man page for "ls" or "more" but a fundamental change in FreeBSD's inner > architecture. Writing software in one's spare time is a case of triage. When I have a day or two to spend working on FreeBSD, I have to make a choice on what most needs doing and if that is a choice between technical writing or designing an algorithm to fix the current limitations of driver detach and KLD unload, I don't think the technical writing is going to win. People must also bear in mind that the most important target release for this software is 4.0 which isn't scheduled until next year. I am certain that the documentation situation will improve before that release. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 11:32:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outland.cyberwar.com (outland.cyberwar.com [206.88.128.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C03D14D4D for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:32:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billg@cyberwar.com) Received: from zippy (zippy.cyberwar.com [206.88.128.80]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07510; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.54.19990622135150.00a8e460@pop.cyberwar.com> X-Sender: billg@pop.cyberwar.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.54 (Beta) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:35:22 -0400 To: Aaron Smith From: Bill G Subject: Re: Serial Console Wierdness Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199906221739.KAA13462@sigma.veritas.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Aaron, At 10:39 AM 6/22/99 -0700, you wrote: >'cu' hangs up really easily. use 'kermit' (it's in ports) and the hangup >problem will disappear. i tried to find an option to cu to modify its >hangup behavior but to no avail. Problem 1 solved! Thanks. Kermit works great! >your second problem sounds like it could be terminal sizing -- have you >tried this with a default 80x24 window, set and exported TERM properly, etc? Ack! I could have sworn it didn't work from text-mode cons25 before, but now it is. for some reason, I cannot get it to work from an xterm...I tried TERM=xterm & xterm-color ...also I tried setting stty cols and rows no luck... >i was not able to get my console to work properly past 38400 baud; i am not >sure why. 38400 has been just fine speed-wise for me, though, so i'm not >that upset. :) >(also see http://www.arctic.org/~aaron/tips/freebsd-serial-console) Nice page! I was going to write one up, but yours looks good... Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 12:27:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [192.35.17.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4CE15505 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:27:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ust@cert.siemens.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: ust@cert.siemens.de (at relayer david.siemens.de) Received: from mail1.siemens.de (mail1.siemens.de [139.23.33.14]) by david.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18289 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:27:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mars.cert.siemens.de (ust.mchp.siemens.de [139.23.201.17]) by mail1.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08321 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:27:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from alaska.cert.siemens.de (alaska.cert.siemens.de [139.23.202.134]) by mars.cert.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/Siemens CERT [ $Revision: 1.9 ]) with ESMTP id VAA00362 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:27:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ust@localhost) by alaska.cert.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/alaska [ $Revision: 1.2 ]) id TAA03562 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:27:58 GMT (envelope-from ust) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:27:58 +0200 From: Udo Schweigert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serial Console Wierdness Message-ID: <19990622212758.A3542@alaska.cert.siemens.de> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199906221739.KAA13462@sigma.veritas.com> <4.2.0.54.19990622135150.00a8e460@pop.cyberwar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.54.19990622135150.00a8e460@pop.cyberwar.com>; from Bill G on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 02:35:22PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 02:35:22PM -0400, Bill G wrote: > Aaron, > At 10:39 AM 6/22/99 -0700, you wrote: > >'cu' hangs up really easily. use 'kermit' (it's in ports) and the hangup > >problem will disappear. i tried to find an option to cu to modify its > >hangup behavior but to no avail. > > Problem 1 solved! Thanks. Kermit works great! > On one of my machines this problem does not disappear with kermit; I get "Communications disconnect (Back at host)". Regards ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Udo Schweigert || Voice : +49 89 636 42170 Siemens AG, Siemens CERT || Fax : +49 89 636 48000 ZT IK 3 || email : Udo.Schweigert@mchp.siemens.de D-81730 Muenchen / Germany || : ust@cert.siemens.de PGP fingerprint || 2A 53 F6 A6 30 59 64 02 6B C4 E0 73 B2 C9 6C E7 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 12:45:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33B531535E; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA49211; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:45:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:45:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Woody Carey Cc: "'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: CDROM drive doesn't probe if no CD present [Was:cannot mount cd indicates bad ide cd drive - replace?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm lofting this up on -hackers to get the attention of the ATAPI CD driver programmer -- Soren, you still around? Take a look at this. On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Woody Carey wrote: > Ok, here is some more information: > > Here is the behavior when there is no cd in the drive at bootup [reboot, > actually] > ^M^[[Kmyname# mount /cdrom > cd9660: Input/output error > myname# dmesg [...] > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, accel, dma, iordy > acd0: drive speed 0 - 4125KB/sec, 128KB cache > acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA > acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels > acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray > acd0: Medium: no/blank disc inside, unlocked > and here is the dmesg output and mount output with a cd in the drive at > boot: > > myname# dmesg [...] > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, accel, dma, iordy > acd0: drive speed 4125KB/sec, 128KB cache > acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA > acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels > acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray > acd0: Medium: CD-ROM 120mm data disc loaded, unlocked > myname# mount /cdrom > > There was some success message on the console after this mount > indicating success. > It did not appear in this script output, obviously. Bizarre. That may be a driver bug or your drive is getting into an inconsistent state if it doesn't boot with a CD present. What brand/model of CD drive is it? Doug White Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 12:48:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D68A14E26; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:48:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.201]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAB1725; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:48:32 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16169; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:48:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:48:42 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Doug Rabson Cc: Hellmuth Michaelis , nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Message-ID: <19990622214842.D15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug Rabson on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 07:19:47PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Doug Rabson (dfr@nlsystems.com) [990622 20:48]: > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > > >From the keyboard of Nick Hibma: > > > > > And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something > > > might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to > > > market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who > > > basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle. > > > > In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave > > like behaving in commercial environments. > > > > I know that it is current behaviour, much easier and obviously a commonly > > accepted thing that code, subsystem and/or changes are not and need not > > to be documented, but this is not a reason in itself for not changing this. > > > > Also, i think that the argument Mike and others use: "don't complain for a > > lack of things, contribute!" - which i use and used all the time - is not > > valid for this issue: at least i can't contribute because i don't understand > > things (now someone could argue, that i'm wrong here ...). > > Writing software in one's spare time is a case of triage. When I have a > day or two to spend working on FreeBSD, I have to make a choice on what > most needs doing and if that is a choice between technical writing or > designing an algorithm to fix the current limitations of driver detach and > KLD unload, I don't think the technical writing is going to win. I can perfectly understand that, and I like to fill that gap. The gap being the lack of documentation. Granted, we can never think of reaching a commercial level on documentating the internals/code which all the committers provide. To think that is either dreaming far into the future or just being foolish. However there is a certain amount of documentation that can be done, skeletal manpages, good sourcecode comments, and the likes that make filling in the abovementioned gap easier for those who (are willing and) have the time to do this. > People must also bear in mind that the most important target release for > this software is 4.0 which isn't scheduled until next year. I am certain > that the documentation situation will improve before that release. It is already getting improved upon Doug. And as a sidenote, so is asking feedback for pr's what Sheldon is doing a lot and which I tend to assist him in. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The *BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: We are back and will not accept no... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 12:49: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66C0C15682; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:48:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.201]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAC1725; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:48:37 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16162; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:43:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:43:49 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mark Newton Cc: hm@hcs.de, nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Message-ID: <19990622214349.C15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <199906221004.TAA36037@gizmo.internode.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <199906221004.TAA36037@gizmo.internode.com.au>; from Mark Newton on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 07:34:14PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Mark Newton (newton@internode.com.au) [990622 17:38]: > Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > > > And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something > > > might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to > > > market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who > > > basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle. > > > > In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave > > like behaving in commercial environments. > > Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation standards. Blah, this argument is, pardon my french, utter bullshit. If one looks at, the now deceased, DEC Unix and it's programmer's manuals, ye see what Hellmuth tries to put down with his statement. In fact I have a couple of those pdf/ps files printed out and they make for TOP CLASS programmer's material. Needless to say I hope to reach this level of excellence with the PDP as well... It's all a matter of time and effort and unfortunately not many care to take the time to document, but rather hack on. (And somewhere that's very understandable.) -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The *BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: We are back and will not accept no... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 12:49: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1906B1585C; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.201]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1725; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:48:31 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16158; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:40:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:40:20 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mike Smith Cc: Greg Lehey , hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Message-ID: <19990622214019.B15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990622180252.J76907@freebie.lemis.com> <199906220842.BAA01553@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <199906220842.BAA01553@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 01:42:05AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Mike Smith (mike@smith.net.au) [990622 17:38]: > > And they might, too. phk has frequently expressed a desire to either > > write documentation on existing systems, or at least help others do > > so. > > No offence meant, but we can see how much of this has actually > materialised. Hence I started the PDP =P Still going strong... > > > Documentation is written after the fact, by someone else. > > > > That's the worst kind of documentation. In fact, most UNIX > > documentation is written by the authors. After the fact, admittedly. > > In fact, most Unix documentation is never written, being my original > point. Which sucks given all the crap the same people tend to spew then about Microsoft being very closed about their internals. No documentation is worse than just a sparse manpage. The latter at least makes it more understanding for all without doing too much UTSL. And given the aspirations the Project has with regard to commercial support I find the silent encouragement of just hack and not document disturbing to say the very least. > As always, complaining about the _lack_ of something is the wrong > approach for this project. Step up and fill the gap, or expose > yourself to criticism for failing to do so. There has to be a way to > make a verb from Brett Glass' name, but I'm sure you get the point. And I did/am doing that with the PDP, which at it current rate of support (that is just me ;) whill be finished somewhere when FreeBSD 6.5 will be released or so, but I am not complaining about that =) I am not fingerpointing here, not am I willing to. I just want to ask all developers to try and document at least the basic ideas somewhere in a manpage in order to make it easier for others (like me) who want to get the documentation on the road. Thanks, -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The *BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: We are back and will not accept no... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 13:12:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from moebius2.Space.Net (moebius2.Space.Net [195.30.1.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3019114BCC for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:12:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maex@Space.Net) Received: (qmail 12860 invoked by uid 1013); 22 Jun 1999 20:12:04 -0000 Message-ID: <19990622221204.B12117@space.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:12:04 +0200 From: Markus Stumpf To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 2.2.7 + NBUF + NMBCLUSTERS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Organization: SpaceNet GmbH, Muenchen, Germany Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hoi folx, I have a 2.2.7 system that runs out of mbuf clusters. maxuser 64 I've raised options NMBCLUSTERS=6144 options NBUF=3072 and that made it for a while. However the system is running a chatserver and a webserver of a customer and now it hits me again. Are there any problems in raising it to options NMBCLUSTERS=16384 options NBUF=8192 Does this combination make sense at all? (in the LINT file NBUF was half the value of NMBCLUSTERS, so I kept this). Thanks \Maex -- SpaceNet GmbH | http://www.Space.Net/ | Yeah, yo mama dresses Research & Development | mailto:maex-sig@Space.Net | you funny and you need Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 | Tel: +49 (89) 32356-0 | a mouse to delete files D-80807 Muenchen | Fax: +49 (89) 32356-299 | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 13:46:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B04F514DF9 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:46:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA11347; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:46:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: dillon@backplane.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 3.x NFS patchset In-Reply-To: <14191.44898.659493.845175@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There is a backported version of MAtt's NFS fixes at: ftp://ftp.whistle.com/pub/julian/nfs-3.diffs These include Andrew's fix to the fix results apreciated. If you've been having NFS server side problems on 3.x check these out.. julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 14:23: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D4AC15479 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:22:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA01314; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:07:39 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:07:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai's project In-Reply-To: <19990622214349.C15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai: I received your email concerning your documentation project a week ago. I tried to respond a couple of times, but I could not reach your private email address. I have written a much longer email. Anyway, I am afraid that being a one year old newbie I could not help as much as you expect. I appreciate all the help I have received from you and others on this list. -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 14:51:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nwcst292.netaddress.usa.net (nwcst292.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BDCA714BCD for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 15206 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jun 1999 21:59:43 -0000 Message-ID: <19990622215943.15205.qmail@nwcst292.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.37 by nwcst292 via web-mailer(M3.2.0.17) on Tue Jun 22 21:59:43 GMT 1999 Date: 22 Jun 99 14:59:43 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: vi(1) is for whimps X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG vi(1) is for whimps http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 15:21:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2D41525D for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-157.s30.as2.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.157]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id SAA22760; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:18:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906222218.SAA22760@smtp4.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <92810.930049763@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:18:34 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Sheldon Hearn Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. Cc: David Malone , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-Jun-99 Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:04:29 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > >> Because that only controls access, it does not actually turn wrapping off. > > Let me be more specific; if you don't want ftpd wrapped, just add > > ftpd: ALL : ALLOW That still wraps, it just allows everyone in. > to your /etc/hosts.allow . A stock configuration won't log successful > connections, so you won't see any logging at all. But if I want to log *all* connections to service foo, but not bar, I could not use tcpd for foo and and bar by itself and achieve that, so you are removing some configurability. If very few people use this extra configurability and if it is a pain to add it in, then I guess it's no real big deal. > Asking for command-line switches and/or inetd.conf directives that allow > per-case exclusions seems to me like asking for duplicate functionality > that isn't required (or is that tautology? :-). Actually, it's asking for functionality that exists with TCP wrappers, but not with the integrated inetd. Like I said, though, if no one but me is going to miss it, and it is non-trivial to implement, then don't bother. OTOH, if it is trivial to implement, then why remove functionality? > Ciao, > Sheldon. --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 15:32:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371D11547F; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:32:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip155.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.155]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A01137079; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA30016; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:32:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:32:45 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Jesus Monroy Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vi(1) is for whimps Message-ID: <19990622173245.A29250@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <19990622215943.15205.qmail@nwcst292.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <19990622215943.15205.qmail@nwcst292.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 02:59:43PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 22, 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: > vi(1) is for whimps > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html Well, you should've posted that to -chat... Second, there are other things people use vi for. You can't add a sentence to a paragraph with cat as easily as you could with vi, such as: So as I headed to the bakery to get some new bread, I decided to stop at the newspaper stand and pick up the sunday paper. So as I headed to the bakery to get some new, delicious white bread, I decided to stop at the newspaper stand to pick up the Sunday edition of the Houston Chronicle. vi is for people who want to get things done the right way with a standard tool that is meant for editing files. If you want to be pedantic, you shouldn't use 'cat' at all for editing files! cat is meant to catenate two or more files to stdout. Try ed. (Although, if taken properly, the page is a good laugh) > > --- > "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, > pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." > http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Chris Costello I bet the human brain is a kludge. - Marvin Minsky To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 16:18: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D33A14CD1; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:17:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA17648; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:47:59 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA03992; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:48:11 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:48:11 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Message-ID: <19990623084811.Q76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990622180252.J76907@freebie.lemis.com> <199906220842.BAA01553@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906220842.BAA01553@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 01:42:05AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 1:42:05 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >> And they might, too. phk has frequently expressed a desire to either >> write documentation on existing systems, or at least help others do >> so. > > No offence meant, but we can see how much of this has actually > materialised. None taken. But if it hasn't happened yet, it's not phk's fault. The real problem is a general attitude: UTSL. Sure, a good hacker can get by with the source, but good documentation makes for a smoother project. >>> It has never happened that way (anywhere, on any project), >> >> Of course it has. It's just uncommon in the FreeBSD environment. In >> many large projects, you don't do any code until you have a clear >> definition of what you're going to do. > > It's uncommon in _most_ environments. Or perhaps tech writers exist > for some other purpose? I don't know too many UNIX tech writers. >>> and it never will. >> >> My father never had a computer, and his father never did, so I never >> will have one. What an argument. > > The circumstances aren't comparable. Why not? In each case, you're resisting change. >>> Documentation is written after the fact, by someone else. >> >> That's the worst kind of documentation. In fact, most UNIX >> documentation is written by the authors. After the fact, admittedly. > > In fact, most Unix documentation is never written, being my original > point. That doesn't make it a desirable or unchangeable situation. >> Hopefully the change of subject line and recipients will get some more >> representative views on this subject. > > Perhaps I should have been clearer; the sort of documentation that the > original set of plaintiffs were asking for is the mythical "describe > everything as it was, is and will be, and make it constantly > representative and up to date". This clarifies your interpretation of the situation. In fact, I was the "original plaintiff", and I wrote: >> Nice to know there's a man page. But the real thing is that the >> "right thing" to do needs to be documented somewhere. It would be >> nice, for example, to have an overview of the design principles. Yes, >> I know I'm asking for a lot here, but it would really help. > These are the same people that will complain about disparities > between any extant documentation and reality, as well as carp > incessantly about the lack of some form of documentation other than > what already exists ("why isn't there a permuted index?" "where's > the sanskrit translation?" I think you're reading more into this than was stated. > "my cat can't read _this_!"). Put in a PR. cat should be able to read anything. > As always, complaining about the _lack_ of something is the wrong > approach for this project. Step up and fill the gap, or expose > yourself to criticism for failing to do so. There has to be a way > to make a verb from Brett Glass' name, but I'm sure you get the > point. "To glass"? Yes, I'm a firm believer in "if it's broke, fix it yourself". I'm also not complaining about the current situation; it's probably too late for that. But it would be really nice if we could cultivate this concept of describing what you're doing while you're doing it. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 16:19:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12DE015096; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA17657; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:49:06 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA04010; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:49:20 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:49:19 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Newton Cc: hm@hcs.de, nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Message-ID: <19990623084919.R76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199906221004.TAA36037@gizmo.internode.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906221004.TAA36037@gizmo.internode.com.au>; from Mark Newton on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 07:34:14PM +0930 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 19:34:14 +0930, Mark Newton wrote: > Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > >>> And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something >>> might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to >>> market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who >>> basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle. >> >> In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave >> like behaving in commercial environments. > > Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation standards. He said "commercial", not "toy". Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 16:24:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB3F114CD1; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:23:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA17680; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:53:12 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA04035; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:53:15 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:53:15 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Doug Rabson Cc: Hellmuth Michaelis , nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Message-ID: <19990623085315.S76907@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug Rabson on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 07:19:47PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 19:19:47 +0100, Doug Rabson wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > >>> From the keyboard of Nick Hibma: >> >>> And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something >>> might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to >>> market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who >>> basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle. >> >> In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave >> like behaving in commercial environments. >> >> I know that it is current behaviour, much easier and obviously a commonly >> accepted thing that code, subsystem and/or changes are not and need not >> to be documented, but this is not a reason in itself for not changing this. >> >> Also, i think that the argument Mike and others use: "don't complain for a >> lack of things, contribute!" - which i use and used all the time - is not >> valid for this issue: at least i can't contribute because i don't understand >> things (now someone could argue, that i'm wrong here ...). >> >> The last thing i want is a flamewar on this topic and i don't write this >> because i want to piss onto someones shoes. And i don't write about a >> man page for "ls" or "more" but a fundamental change in FreeBSD's inner >> architecture. > > Writing software in one's spare time is a case of triage. When I have a > day or two to spend working on FreeBSD, I have to make a choice on what > most needs doing and if that is a choice between technical writing or > designing an algorithm to fix the current limitations of driver detach and > KLD unload, I don't think the technical writing is going to win. > > People must also bear in mind that the most important target release for > this software is 4.0 which isn't scheduled until next year. I am certain > that the documentation situation will improve before that release. Doug, before you get the wrong impression, I don't think anybody's criticizing you. My intention was to raise the awareness of the importance, not of low-level documentation, but of "this is why we did it this way, and this is how to use it" kind of documentation; much of it could be in mail messages, but it's stuff which only the authors can really explain. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 17:37:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from friley-185-206.res.iastate.edu (friley-185-206.res.iastate.edu [129.186.185.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5867F14D12 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:37:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ccsanady@scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu (friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu [129.186.185.205]) by friley-185-206.res.iastate.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B74ADF0; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:37:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from scl.ameslab.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by friley-185-205.res.iastate.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B27F142; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:37:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37702C44.993BFADB@scl.ameslab.gov> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:37:24 -0500 From: Chris Csanady X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bill G." Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serial Console Wierdness References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Bill G." wrote: > > I got a serial console working on COM2, to which I have connected > another FreeBSD box. I connect with 'cu' fine, but I'm running into > a couple of problems which I haven't been able to find and answer > for. > > o When I connect, when the machine is first turned on, I get > disconnected twice during the boot up sequence (cu reports > Got hangup signal) -- looks like when the sio1 device is > probed, and also when getty runs. This happens when the serial chip gets reset, and the DCD line goes low for a moment. For most local serial connections, you really want to tie the DCD pin back to the DTR/DSR. If you use rj45 modular adapters, this is fairly easy. I find the following wiring to be rather convenient, as you have a single type of adapter, which can used for just about anything. If you use a crossed ethernet cable, you will get a null cable, otherwise it will be straight through. Signal DB25 DB9 RJ45 Color ,-- DCD 8 1 NC | TXD 2 3 1 Blue | RXD 3 2 3 Black +-- DTR 20 4 NC | SG 7 5 7 Brown `-- DSR 6 6 NC RTS 4 7 2 Orange CTS 5 8 6 Yellow Hope this is of some use.. Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 18:31:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quack.kfu.com (quack.kfu.com [170.1.70.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D46081501E for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:31:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nsayer@medusa.kfu.com) Received: from medusa.kfu.com (medusa.kfu.com [170.1.70.5]) by quack.kfu.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25359 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nsayer@localhost) by medusa.kfu.com (8.9.2/8.8.8) id SAA24130 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:31:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nsayer) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:31:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Nick Sayer Message-Id: <199906230131.SAA24130@medusa.kfu.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Porting strategy - pine4 + SSL Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have made a preliminary patch (hack?) to add SSL to pine (it's like clicking the 'server requires secure connection' box - POP or IMAP over SSL). The pine4 port is fairly involved. Adding my stuff is almost downright trivial. It amounts to adding BUILD_DEPENDS= ${PREFIX}/lib/libssl.a:${PORTSDIR}/security/SSLeay \ ${PREFIX}/lib/libcrypto.a:${PORTSDIR}/security/SSLeay \ ${PREFIX}/lib/libRSAglue.a:${PORTSDIR}/security/SSLeay \ ${PREFIX}/lib/librsaref.a:${PORTSDIR}/security/rsaref RESTRICTED= "Contains cryptography - no export from US" DISTFILES+= pine4+ssl-1.0 MASTER_SITES+= ftp://ftp.kfu.com/pub/ (the pine4+ssl-1.0.tar.gz file isn't there yet. :-) ) and modifying the Makefile to add "EXTRAAUTHENTICATORS=ssl" to the end of the "build" command. How should I do this? Should I copy the pine4 port entirely? Should I modify the existing pine4 adding conditional stuff to handle ssl? Can someone suggest a hackish way to piggyback onto the existing pine4 port with a new port consisting only of the steps above, but preserving the steps of the original port? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 18:38:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BBB514C40 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA15049; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:38:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sji-ca4-28.ix.netcom.com(205.186.212.156) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma015020; Tue Jun 22 20:37:49 1999 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (8.9.3/8.6.9) id SAA49975; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906230137.SAA49975@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: silvia.hip.berkeley.edu: asami set sender to asami@cs.berkeley.edu using -f To: nsayer@quack.kfu.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199906230131.SAA24130@medusa.kfu.com> (message from Nick Sayer on Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:31:48 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: Porting strategy - pine4 + SSL From: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) References: <199906230131.SAA24130@medusa.kfu.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * From: Nick Sayer * * I have made a preliminary patch (hack?) to add SSL to pine (it's like * clicking the 'server requires secure connection' box - POP or IMAP over * SSL). * * The pine4 port is fairly involved. Adding my stuff is almost downright * trivial. It amounts to adding * * * BUILD_DEPENDS= ${PREFIX}/lib/libssl.a:${PORTSDIR}/security/SSLeay \ * ${PREFIX}/lib/libcrypto.a:${PORTSDIR}/security/SSLeay \ * ${PREFIX}/lib/libRSAglue.a:${PORTSDIR}/security/SSLeay \ * ${PREFIX}/lib/librsaref.a:${PORTSDIR}/security/rsaref * * RESTRICTED= "Contains cryptography - no export from US" * * DISTFILES+= pine4+ssl-1.0 * MASTER_SITES+= ftp://ftp.kfu.com/pub/ * * (the pine4+ssl-1.0.tar.gz file isn't there yet. :-) ) * * and modifying the Makefile to add "EXTRAAUTHENTICATORS=ssl" to the end * of the "build" command. * * How should I do this? Should I copy the pine4 port entirely? * Should I modify the existing pine4 adding conditional stuff to * handle ssl? Can someone suggest a hackish way to piggyback onto * the existing pine4 port with a new port consisting only of the * steps above, but preserving the steps of the original port? (1) Change pine4/Makefile to define stuff like PKGNAME with ?= and *_DEPENDS with += (2) Set MASTERDIR=${.CURDIR}/../pine4 and put the above plus .include "${MASTERDIR}/Makefile" in pine4-ssl/Makefile. You may need to supply pkg/* files separately. Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 20:56:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D15014BDE; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:55:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA74225; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:55:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA10477; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199906230354.VAA10477@harmony.village.org> To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Cc: Doug Rabson , Hellmuth Michaelis , nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:48:42 +0200." <19990622214842.D15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990622214842.D15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:54:03 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19990622214842.D15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: : Granted, we can never think of reaching a commercial level on documentating : the internals/code which all the committers provide. I think that the documenation that Doug has written to date EXCEEDS so called commercial standards. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 20:59:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78BB515413; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:59:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA74232; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:59:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA10501; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:57:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199906230357.VAA10501@harmony.village.org> To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Cc: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:40:20 +0200." <19990622214019.B15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990622214019.B15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <19990622180252.J76907@freebie.lemis.com> <199906220842.BAA01553@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:57:32 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19990622214019.B15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: : No documentation is worse than just a sparse manpage. ls /usr/share/man/man9 | egrep bus_generic_attach.9.gz bus_generic_detach.9.gz bus_generic_map_intr.9.gz bus_generic_print_child.9.gz bus_generic_read_ivar.9.gz bus_generic_shutdown.9.gz bus_generic_write_ivar.9.gz devclass.9.gz devclass_add_driver.9.gz devclass_delete_driver.9.gz devclass_find.9.gz devclass_find_driver.9.gz devclass_get_device.9.gz devclass_get_devices.9.gz devclass_get_maxunit.9.gz devclass_get_name.9.gz devclass_get_softc.9.gz BUS_CONNECT_INTR.9.gz BUS_CREATE_INTR.9.gz BUS_PRINT_CHILD.9.gz BUS_READ_IVAR.9.gz BUS_WRITE_IVAR.9.gz DEVICE_ATTACH.9.gz DEVICE_DETACH.9.gz DEVICE_PROBE.9.gz DEVICE_SHUTDOWN.9.gz device.9.gz device_add_child.9.gz device_add_child_after.9.gz device_busy.9.gz device_delete_child.9.gz device_disable.9.gz device_enable.9.gz device_find_child.9.gz device_get_desc.9.gz device_get_devclass.9.gz device_get_driver.9.gz device_get_ivars.9.gz device_get_softc.9.gz device_get_state.9.gz device_get_unit.9.gz device_is_alive.9.gz device_is_enabled.9.gz device_probe_and_attach.9.gz device_set_desc.9.gz device_unbusy.9.gz driver.9.gz There may be more that I missed... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 23:13: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.uninet.ee (ns.uninet.ee [194.204.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D979E150D1; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:12:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taavi@uninet.ee) Received: from localhost (taavi@localhost) by ns.uninet.ee (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA13889; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:12:12 +0300 (EEST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:12:12 +0300 (EEST) From: Taavi Talvik To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-Reply-To: <19990622214019.B15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > I am not fingerpointing here, not am I willing to. I just want to ask all > developers to try and document at least the basic ideas somewhere in a > manpage in order to make it easier for others (like me) who want to get > the documentation on the road. If you write man pages first time, it is quite close to clack magic. It would be really nice if someone comfortant with troff/nroff etc. would make Handbook page describing how to get started with it. Maybe even templates or script generating page sceletion and pointers to them under some handbook entry http://www.ee.freebsd.org/docproj/doc-set.html says, The [Documentation]Project does not really concern itself with these, since they are a part of the base system. best regards, taavi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 23:17:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E60150D1; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA19115; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:47:37 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id PAA64559; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:47:46 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:47:45 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Taavi Talvik Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Mike Smith , hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Message-ID: <19990623154745.D581@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990622214019.B15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Taavi Talvik on Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 09:12:12AM +0300 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 23 June 1999 at 9:12:12 +0300, Taavi Talvik wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > >> I am not fingerpointing here, not am I willing to. I just want to ask all >> developers to try and document at least the basic ideas somewhere in a >> manpage in order to make it easier for others (like me) who want to get >> the documentation on the road. > > If you write man pages first time, it is quite close to clack magic. > It would be really nice if someone comfortant with troff/nroff etc. > would make Handbook page describing how to get started with it. > Maybe even templates or script generating page sceletion and pointers to > them under some handbook entry > > http://www.ee.freebsd.org/docproj/doc-set.html says, > > The [Documentation]Project does not really concern itself with these, > since they are a part of the base system. There's a man page for it :-) mdoc.samples(7). Now tell me that that's not intuitive. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 23:26: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B5EE15505; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:25:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA74549; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:25:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA46214; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199906230624.AAA46214@harmony.village.org> To: Josef Karthauser Subject: Re: [DISKLABEL FRAGGED] Clues requested... ;) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:38:03 BST." <19990621083803.M95198@pavilion.net> References: <19990621083803.M95198@pavilion.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:24:07 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19990621083803.M95198@pavilion.net> Josef Karthauser writes: : The data on the disk isn't crucial, I can rebuild the system if necessary, but : it seems that maybe I can spend less time writing a recovery tool than it would : take to start from scratch. I have a program that searches the cylinder groups for signatures and tries to reconstruct a disk label (actually, it gives you the information you need to do that. I can dig it up if you like. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 23:38:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEF8A155C1; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:37:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.147]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAB5C87; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:37:54 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17863; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:49:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:49:31 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Warner Losh Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Message-ID: <19990623074931.B17840@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990622214019.B15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <19990622180252.J76907@freebie.lemis.com> <199906220842.BAA01553@dingo.cdrom.com> <19990622214019.B15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <199906230357.VAA10501@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <199906230357.VAA10501@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 09:57:32PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Warner Losh (imp@harmony.village.org) [990623 07:43]: > @daemon.ninth-circle.org> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: > : No documentation is worse than just a sparse manpage. > > ls /usr/share/man/man9 | egrep Oh, I wasn't implying that the newbus guys didn't document anything. I was merely commenting in a more general sense, but my timing within the thread might have given the idea it was said within the context of the newbus discussion/talks. Apologies if people thought so, but I thought I was careful enough to generalise it. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The *BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: We are back and will not accept no... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 23:38:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D410E155E8; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:37:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.147]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAC5C87; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:37:56 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17859; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:47:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:47:48 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Warner Losh Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Doug Rabson , Hellmuth Michaelis , nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Message-ID: <19990623074748.A17840@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990622214842.D15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <19990622214842.D15249@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <199906230354.VAA10477@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <199906230354.VAA10477@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 09:54:03PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Warner Losh (imp@harmony.village.org) [990623 07:43]: > daemon.ninth-circle.org> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: > : Granted, we can never think of reaching a commercial level on documentating > : the internals/code which all the committers provide. > > I think that the documenation that Doug has written to date EXCEEDS so > called commercial standards. Then I am happy to change to all to most from the above sentence (which ought to have been most up there from the first). -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The *BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: We are back and will not accept no... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 22 23:56:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles561.castles.com [208.214.165.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C672914C94; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:56:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00630; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:52:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906230652.XAA00630@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mark Newton , hm@hcs.de, nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:49:19 +0930." <19990623084919.R76907@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:52:25 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave > >> like behaving in commercial environments. > > > > Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation standards. > > He said "commercial", not "toy". Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic benchmarks, and has hundreds of developer-oriented books on the shelves in every major bookstore in the developed world, I think your position is perhaps slightly less than tenable here. But Mark illustrates my point perfectly; developers don't write documentation. That's what camp followers are for. So far, we have the ones that whine about the loot and throw mud at us when we march too slowly, but not enough of the ones that sew our banners, mend our pots and pans, or teach our version of the gospel to the heathens we subdue. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 0: 9:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0BE815547; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:09:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA19291; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:39:22 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id QAA83427; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:39:28 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:39:28 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: Mark Newton , hm@hcs.de, nick.hibma@jrc.it, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)) Message-ID: <19990623163928.E581@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990623084919.R76907@freebie.lemis.com> <199906230652.XAA00630@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906230652.XAA00630@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 11:52:25PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >>>> In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave >>>> like behaving in commercial environments. >>> >>> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation standards. >> >> He said "commercial", not "toy". > > Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks demonstrating > that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms us by a factor of > anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic benchmarks, Really? This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm astounded. How about some details? > and has hundreds of developer-oriented books on the shelves in every > major bookstore in the developed world, I think your position is > perhaps slightly less than tenable here. If that's a given, yes. > But Mark illustrates my point perfectly; developers don't write > documentation. That's what camp followers are for. So far, we have > the ones that whine about the loot and throw mud at us when we march > too slowly, but not enough of the ones that sew our banners, mend our > pots and pans, or teach our version of the gospel to the heathens we > subdue. You can never get enough of them. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 0:42: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hcsext.hcs.de (hcshh.hcs.de [194.123.40.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2CB4314E7C; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:42:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hm@hcs.de) Received: from hcswork.hcs.de([192.76.124.5]) (1866 bytes) by hcsext.hcs.de via sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:42:05 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.104 1998-Nov-20 #1 built 1998-Dec-11) Received: by hcswork.hcs.de (Smail3.1.29.0 #12) id m10whfY-0000dCC; Wed, 23 Jun 99 09:42 METDST Message-Id: From: hm@hcs.de (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-Reply-To: <199906230357.VAA10501@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Jun 22, 99 09:57:32 pm" To: imp@harmony.village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:42:04 +0200 (METDST) Cc: asmodai@wxs.nl, mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: hm@hcs.de Organization: HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 732 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From the keyboard of Warner Losh: > ls /usr/share/man/man9 | egrep > > bus_generic_attach.9.gz > bus_generic_detach.9.gz [...] I know. I just don't get an idea of the concept. Or am i missing something here (something like a meta-manpage or a general description containing pointers to the technical details to the already-being-there man-pages) ? Perhaps it's just an oversight on my side ? hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis Tel +49 40 559747-70 HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH Fax +49 40 559747-77 Oldesloer Strasse 97-99 Mail hm [at] hcs.de 22457 Hamburg WWW http://www.hcs.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 0:51:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EEE014D01; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:51:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.9.2/8.8.8) id IAA07914; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:51:39 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from joe) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:51:39 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Warner Losh Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [DISKLABEL FRAGGED] Clues requested... ;) Message-ID: <19990623085139.A27440@pavilion.net> References: <19990621083803.M95198@pavilion.net> <199906230624.AAA46214@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906230624.AAA46214@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 12:24:07AM -0600 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Organisation: Pavilion Internet plc, 24 The Old Steine, Brighton, BN1 1EL, England Phone: +44-845-333-5000 Fax: +44-845-333-5001 Mobile: +44-403-596893 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 12:24:07AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <19990621083803.M95198@pavilion.net> Josef Karthauser writes: > : The data on the disk isn't crucial, I can rebuild the system if necessary, but > : it seems that maybe I can spend less time writing a recovery tool than it would > : take to start from scratch. > > I have a program that searches the cylinder groups for signatures and > tries to reconstruct a disk label (actually, it gives you the > information you need to do that. I can dig it up if you like. Niall Smart has already sent me his. Thanks anyway, Joe -- Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 0:53:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles561.castles.com [208.214.165.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A61E14F48 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:53:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00989; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:50:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906230750.AAA00989@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hm@hcs.de Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:42:04 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:50:34 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >From the keyboard of Warner Losh: > > > ls /usr/share/man/man9 | egrep > > > > bus_generic_attach.9.gz > > bus_generic_detach.9.gz > [...] > > I know. I just don't get an idea of the concept. Or am i missing something > here (something like a meta-manpage or a general description containing > pointers to the technical details to the already-being-there man-pages) ? I rest my case. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 1:21:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9EE614BDB; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:21:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA61801; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:21:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) From: Soren Schmidt Message-Id: <199906230821.KAA61801@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: CDROM drive doesn't probe if no CD present [Was:cannot mount cd indicates bad ide cd drive - replace?] In-Reply-To: from Doug White at "Jun 22, 1999 12:45:26 pm" To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu (Doug White) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:21:21 +0200 (CEST) Cc: carey@roguewave.com, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Doug White wrote: > I'm lofting this up on -hackers to get the attention of the ATAPI CD > driver programmer -- Soren, you still around? Take a look at this. I'm here alright :) Sounds like the drive has a firmwarebug, If you are running -current try the ata driver instead, and let me know how that turns out... -Søren > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Woody Carey wrote: > > > Ok, here is some more information: > > > > Here is the behavior when there is no cd in the drive at bootup [reboot, > > actually] > > ^M^[[Kmyname# mount /cdrom > > cd9660: Input/output error > > myname# dmesg > > [...] > > > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, accel, dma, iordy > > acd0: drive speed 0 - 4125KB/sec, 128KB cache > > acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA > > acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels > > acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray > > acd0: Medium: no/blank disc inside, unlocked > > > and here is the dmesg output and mount output with a cd in the drive at > > boot: > > > > myname# dmesg > [...] > > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, accel, dma, iordy > > acd0: drive speed 4125KB/sec, 128KB cache > > acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA > > acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels > > acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray > > acd0: Medium: CD-ROM 120mm data disc loaded, unlocked > > > myname# mount /cdrom > > > > There was some success message on the console after this mount > > indicating success. > > It did not appear in this script output, obviously. > > Bizarre. That may be a driver bug or your drive is getting into an > inconsistent state if it doesn't boot with a CD present. > > What brand/model of CD drive is it? > > Doug White > Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve > http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | www.freebsd.org > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 1:29:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BAF3152AE for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:29:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wiP2-000AVe-00; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:29:04 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: John Baldwin Cc: David Malone , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:18:34 -0400." <199906222218.SAA22760@smtp4.erols.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:29:04 +0200 Message-ID: <40401.930126544@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:18:34 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > But if I want to log *all* connections to service foo, but not bar, I > could not use tcpd for foo and and bar by itself and achieve that, so > you are removing some configurability. If very few people use this > extra configurability and if it is a pain to add it in, then I guess > it's no real big deal. I used to pride myself in my communication skills, but I'm starting to doubt myself. :-) My concern is that what you want introduces duplicate functionality. I'm not denying that you can't do exactly the same things with inetd that you could with tcpd, but that's to be expected. So far, the mail that I've received which has requested per-case exclusion options has been motivated by two concerns: 1) Performance. I think we're all clear now that exclusion options will not introduce a significant performance gain. We've already scored our performance gain by obviating an exec on tcpd. 2) Logging. I understand that folks want to be able to have their logs look the same as they did when tcpd was in use. That's already not possible, since the wrapping-related messages you see come from inetd[pid] and not tcpd[pid]. I believe that you can have all the messages you used to get going to all the places it used to go, but now using different configuration. Now you should use the hosts_options(5) "severity" option to assign a syslog selector to the messages generated for a service and tune syslog.conf to get messages to the right log destinations. It's critical that folks understand that built-in wrapping in inetd is not the same as inetd passing the job of wrapping to a program called tcpd. Something different is happening in each case. It just so happens that the two cases share a common goal. When you say you want "functionality that exists with TCP wrappers", I think you mean "identical semantics to those used with tcpd". You can't have it, it's that simple. What you should be able to have is the same functionality as was available when using tcpd. I don't think the fact that you may need to set things up differently to achieve the same results as you had before isn't a serious problem, because you're doing a different thing now. Hopefully this clarifies what's going on in my head. :-) Later, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 1:58:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F2914D6E; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:58:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA19718; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:28:26 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA35600; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:28:41 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:28:40 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Hackers , multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: USB scanners? Message-ID: <19990623182840.B87293@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to get one running? I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I had some chance of success. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 2:10:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA78114D6E; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id LAA22356; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:09:53 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:09:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , USB BSD list , multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB scanners? In-Reply-To: <19990623182840.B87293@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG No one I know off. And I don't know of a scanner that we could easily support. It might be that there are scanners that work through the Mass Storage class specification (converted SCSI scanners). If you have a scanner run the usb_dump utility available from http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb_dump.c and send me the output, so we can figure out what interfaces and classes it supports. Nick On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to > get one running? I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I > had some chance of success. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 2:25: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99DBF14CE2; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:24:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA19837; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:55:02 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA09466; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:55:17 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:55:16 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nick Hibma Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , USB BSD list , multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB scanners? Message-ID: <19990623185516.D87293@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990623182840.B87293@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Nick Hibma on Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 11:09:50AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 23 June 1999 at 11:09:50 +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to >> get one running? I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I >> had some chance of success. > > No one I know off. And I don't know of a scanner that we could easily > support. It might be that there are scanners that work through the Mass > Storage class specification (converted SCSI scanners). *sigh* that's what I was afraid you'd say. > If you have a scanner run the usb_dump utility available from > > http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb_dump.c > > and send me the output, so we can figure out what interfaces and classes > it supports. No, I don't have one yet. I was thinking of buying a scanner, and it seemed to be a logical thing to buy a USB scanner and write a driver for FreeBSD. I suppose I could contact all the scanner manufacturers and ask for programming docco. Does anybody have any leads? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 2:30: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6913414CE2; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:29:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA27343; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:03:17 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199906230703.JAA27343@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: USB scanners? To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:03:16 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: nick.hibma@jrc.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, usb-bsd@egroups.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990623185516.D87293@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jun 23, 99 06:54:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1036 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > No, I don't have one yet. I was thinking of buying a scanner, and it > seemed to be a logical thing to buy a USB scanner and write a driver > for FreeBSD. > > I suppose I could contact all the scanner manufacturers and ask for > programming docco. Does anybody have any leads? this is a painful road in my experience. I suggest that you look at the SANE web page and see if there are pointers to documentation. HP has some documentation of the language (SCL ?) used by its SCSI scanners but i don't know to what degree it applies to non-SCSI units. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 2:34:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C82814CE2; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:34:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id LAA23699; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:34:00 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:33:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: USB BSD list Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners? In-Reply-To: <19990623185516.D87293@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > No, I don't have one yet. I was thinking of buying a scanner, and it > seemed to be a logical thing to buy a USB scanner and write a driver > for FreeBSD. > > I suppose I could contact all the scanner manufacturers and ask for > programming docco. Does anybody have any leads? Some guy from HP promised to send me some feedback on a cheapo HP scanner I have, but so far no luck. No one has (been) proded so far I think. Nick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 2:35: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4608114F67; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:34:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id LAA23734; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:34:42 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:34:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: Greg Lehey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, usb-bsd@egroups.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB scanners? In-Reply-To: <199906230703.JAA27343@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Where is this docu available? > this is a painful road in my experience. I suggest that you look at the > SANE web page and see if there are pointers to documentation. > > HP has some documentation of the language (SCL ?) used by its SCSI > scanners but i don't know to what degree it applies to non-SCSI > units. > > cheers > luigi > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa > TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ > ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 2:55:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from saturn.ms.tlk.com (saturn.ms.tlk.com [194.97.68.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06C4314E59; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:55:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from br@smilla.rueskamp.com) Received: from mars.ms.tlk.com (mars.ms.tlk.com [194.97.68.1]) by saturn.ms.tlk.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE064ECE2; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:55:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smilla.rueskamp.com(really [194.97.69.109]) by mars.ms.tlk.com via sendmail with esmtp id for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:55:25 +0200 (CEST)) Received: (from br@localhost) by smilla.rueskamp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA79364; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:55:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from br) From: Bodo Rueskamp Message-Id: <199906230955.LAA79364@smilla.rueskamp.com> Subject: Re: USB scanners? In-Reply-To: <19990623182840.B87293@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jun 23, 1999 06:28:40 pm" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:55:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to > get one running? I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I > had some chance of success. I have a HP ScanJet 5200C and would like to write a driver for it. Can please someone give me pointers to USB documents? I'm writing device drivers and protocol engines for ISDN and H.323 but USB is a new area for me. ; Bodo -- Bodo Rüskamp, br@rueskamp.com, 51°55' N 7°41' E (1) Elvis is alive. (2) Dinosaurs too. (3) The next millenium starts on January 1st 2000. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 3:31:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3752C14DF2; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 03:31:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with ESMTP id MAA26418; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:31:09 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:31:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Bodo Rueskamp Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list , multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, USB BSD list Subject: Re: USB scanners? In-Reply-To: <199906230955.LAA79364@smilla.rueskamp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have a HP ScanJet 5200C and would like to write a driver for it. > Can please someone give me pointers to USB documents? I'm writing > device drivers and protocol engines for ISDN and H.323 but USB is > a new area for me. USB home page: http://www.usb.org/ (developers section) USB for FreeBSD home page: http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl FYI: I am currently writing a driver for the 3COM USB modem (5605) and the 3COM USB ISDN-TA (Andorra, will come out later this year). These will support the AT interface nothing else yet. Nick > > ; Bodo > > -- > Bodo Rüskamp, br@rueskamp.com, 51°55' N 7°41' E > (1) Elvis is alive. > (2) Dinosaurs too. > (3) The next millenium starts on January 1st 2000. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 4: 4:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alice.gba.oz.au (gba-254.tmx.com.au [203.9.155.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E3C11500B for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 04:04:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb-freebsd@gba.oz.au) Received: (qmail 24744 invoked by uid 1001); 23 Jun 1999 14:44:44 +1000 Message-ID: <19990623044444.24743.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> X-Posted-By: GBA-Post 1.03 20-Sep-1998 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:44:43 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Mark Newton Cc: hm@hcs.de, nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) References: <199906221004.TAA36037@gizmo.internode.com.au> In-reply-to: <199906221004.TAA36037@gizmo.internode.com.au> of Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:34:14 +0930 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something > > > might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to > > > market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who > > > basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle. > > > > In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave > > like behaving in commercial environments. > > Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation standards. That remark is content-free for all of us who never read MS documentation. -- Greg Black -- or Fight censorship in Australia: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 4:34: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gidgate.gid.co.uk [193.123.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E3BD14D2E for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 04:33:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA05887; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:33:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990623123259.007cde10@192.168.255.1> X-Sender: rbmail@192.168.255.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:32:59 +0100 To: Chris Csanady From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Serial Console Wierdness Cc: "Bill G." , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <37702C44.993BFADB@scl.ameslab.gov> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 19:37 22/06/99 -0500, Chris Csanady wrote: >"Bill G." wrote: >> >> I got a serial console working on COM2, to which I have connected >> another FreeBSD box. I connect with 'cu' fine, but I'm running into >> a couple of problems which I haven't been able to find and answer >> for. >> >> o When I connect, when the machine is first turned on, I get >> disconnected twice during the boot up sequence (cu reports >> Got hangup signal) -- looks like when the sio1 device is >> probed, and also when getty runs. > >This happens when the serial chip gets reset, and the DCD line >goes low for a moment. [etc] Some buggy UARTs drop control lines when the baud rate is set, even if it's being set to the current value. There used (eons ago) to be a patch for this (don't set the baud rate if it's already the desired value); someone who knows the driver better than I do should check that it's not still a problem. -- Bob Bishop +44 118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 118 989 4254 (0800-1800 UK) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 5:23:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 771DB150CD; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 05:23:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA27612; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:57:05 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199906230957.LAA27612@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: USB scanners? To: nick.hibma@jrc.it Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:57:05 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, usb-bsd@egroups.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Nick Hibma" at Jun 23, 99 11:09:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1070 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > No one I know off. And I don't know of a scanner that we could easily > support. It might be that there are scanners that work through the Mass > Storage class specification (converted SCSI scanners). > > If you have a scanner run the usb_dump utility available from > > http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb_dump.c > > and send me the output, so we can figure out what interfaces and classes > it supports. Nick, do you need such info for generic hw as well ? I start seeing USP peripherals around in the office and i can briefly borrow them and run a quick dump on my 3.2 machine. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 5:24: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 283E81512A; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 05:24:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA27603; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:54:45 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199906230954.LAA27603@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: USB scanners? To: nick.hibma@jrc.it Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:54:45 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, usb-bsd@egroups.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Nick Hibma" at Jun 23, 99 11:34:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1494 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Where is this docu available? it is part of the painful road. all i remember is i had to browse through the HP webpages looking for "SCL" or "Scanner Command Language" or so after starting with generic search for programming info on the ScanJet scanners. the search was non trivial. cheers luigi > > this is a painful road in my experience. I suggest that you look at the > > SANE web page and see if there are pointers to documentation. > > > > HP has some documentation of the language (SCL ?) used by its SCSI > > scanners but i don't know to what degree it applies to non-SCSI > > units. > > > > cheers > > luigi > > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > > Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione > > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa > > TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > > > > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ > > ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== > > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > -- > ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-multimedia" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 5:52:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E1F614D5B; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 05:52:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id OAA00886; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:52:34 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:52:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: usb-bsd@egroups.com Cc: grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners? In-Reply-To: <199906230957.LAA27612@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What kind of devices do you see showing up? Would be a great help to get some idea of what is needed for the various devices. For mice the support is pretty much cooked, but for example keyboards sometimes have an extra mouse port. Interesting would be things like camera's (still as well as video), scanners, fingerprint readers, modems, ethernet adapters, anything really. I have printouts for the following devices -mice -BTC keyboard -3COM modem -HP 2700 scanner -Labtech speakers -3COM ethernet iface Or hubs with extra functions (like the Entrega ones). Nick > Nick, do you need such info for generic hw as well ? I start seeing > USP peripherals around in the office and i can briefly borrow them > and run a quick dump on my 3.2 machine. > > cheers > luigi > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa > TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ > ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 5:57:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B1B4D14D5B; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 05:57:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA27722; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:31:16 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199906231031.MAA27722@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners? To: nick.hibma@jrc.it Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:31:16 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: usb-bsd@egroups.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Nick Hibma" at Jun 23, 99 02:52:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 748 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What kind of devices do you see showing up? i have an epson photo750 printer, and colleagues around seem to have a few USB cameras. Haven't seen yet any USB scanner in the office but all new one seem to be USB so as soon as one comes in i am sure it will be USB cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 6:26:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from midget.dons.net.au (daniel.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0986C14C35; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 06:26:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darius@dons.net.au) Received: from guppy.dons.net.au (guppy.dons.net.au [203.31.81.9]) by midget.dons.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15502; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:55:38 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from darius@dons.net.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990623225537:414=_"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:55:37 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel J. O'Connor" To: Nick Hibma Subject: Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners? Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com, usb-bsd@egroups.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format --_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990623225537:414=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 23-Jun-99 Nick Hibma wrote: > What kind of devices do you see showing up? > Would be a great help to get some idea of what is needed for the various > devices. For mice the support is pretty much cooked, but for example > keyboards sometimes have an extra mouse port. Well I have access to a HP ScanJet at work, and USB modems are real cheap :) IMHO its kinda pointless having USB mice/kbd since PS/2 does that pretty well, but stuff like scanners and modems which eat serial/parallel ports are handy to have as USB. Not that I actually OWN any USB HW (yet :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum --_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990623225537:414=_ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBN3DgUWj0TqzKxF7VAQGAsQP/TJwaxWSdA53MXSXOmHwVDtLFBmtxjt4l 1eKzX1JpNKUyoGHcCCGsSnzDeG21bWm4AVY19LBDedBCGcXx+SWBHyCeygk5FfWB 6eYZHupsdx0EaXoyu+1rqcygCAr1VQ5d4EKHYuZ8sqG7pyM1i/UpG2gMyS8J7mnB +Fj9F/rUYmU= =xD9G -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990623225537:414=_-- End of MIME message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 6:56:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp13.bellglobal.com (smtp13.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B6614C49 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 06:56:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vanderh@ecf.toronto.edu) Received: from ppp18341.on.bellglobal.com (ppp18344.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.130.24]) by smtp13.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08307; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by ppp18341.on.bellglobal.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA52179; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:56:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:56:46 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Message-ID: <19990623095646.B52097@ppp18341.on.bellglobal.com> References: <19990623084919.R76907@freebie.lemis.com> <199906230652.XAA00630@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199906230652.XAA00630@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 11:52:25PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Cc: line trimmed dramatically] On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 11:52:25PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks demonstrating > that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms us by a factor of > anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic benchmarks, and has hundreds Hmm... You were doing something with Mindcraft, right? Have the results been officially released? In a grand sweeping statement, can you say how Linux did? -- This is my .signature which gets appended to the end of my messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 7:14:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 268D115224 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:14:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA297622092; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 06:01:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 06:01:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Jesus Monroy Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi(1) is for whimps In-Reply-To: <19990622215943.15205.qmail@nwcst292.netaddress.usa.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22 Jun 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: > vi(1) is for whimps > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html As long as you're critiquing people for what you called (paraphrased) "a smiley that made you sound insincere", I guess I'll point out that the word is "wimps". - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 7:47:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4D71527F for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:47:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id HAA97605; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:47:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:47:36 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199906231447.HAA97605@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: asmodai@wxs.nl, taavi@uninet.ee Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:12:12 +0300 (EEST) >From: Taavi Talvik >If you write man pages first time, it is quite close to clack magic. It may seem that way (ref. Arthur C. Clark), but I respectfully disagree. >It would be really nice if someone comfortant with troff/nroff etc. >would make Handbook page describing how to get started with it. >Maybe even templates or script generating page sceletion and pointers to >them under some handbook entry When I have written man pages (for internal scripts & things -- the only thing I've been able to contribute back to the community of late was a small patch to amd (libamu/mount_fs.c), and that didn't warrant any man page changes), I've picked up the source for some other man page that I thought was put together well, copied it, and then started changing the content as appropriate, with the man pages for mdoc(7) and mdoc.samples(7) in auxiliary windows for reference... along with another window for trying out the results. The results have generally been quite usable, and considerably better than nothing. For me, there are typically two big obstacles: * forming a clear idea of what needs to be written and * getting started in the first place. (Well, there's the meta-obstacle of more things to do than time to do them, and changing priorities for many of these things.) One of the big advantages we have is the ability to start with others' work, and improve on it or adapt it to new uses. (The "we" there is somewhat context-sensitive. In the context of the man pages, the referent may be taken as the community of folks who have historically had access to the troff sources for the man pages. I am aware of only a couple of aberrant UNIX-ish systems that only provided the pre-formatted (and sometimes, compressed) man pages; I believe that most folks using UNIX have had access to the "real thing" -- and certainly anyone working with an "Open Source" UNIX(-like) system has access to them.) Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com UNIX System Administrator voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (888) 347-0197 FAX: (650) 372-5915 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 8:41:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 658A214EDA; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:41:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id RAA07851; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:41:08 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:41:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: "Daniel J. O'Connor" Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com, usb-bsd@egroups.com Subject: Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well I have access to a HP ScanJet at work, and USB modems are real cheap :) FreeBSD Inc. and 3Com give them away for free lately... > > IMHO its kinda pointless having USB mice/kbd since PS/2 does that pretty well, > but stuff like scanners and modems which eat serial/parallel ports are handy to > have as USB. > > Not that I actually OWN any USB HW (yet :) > > --- > Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer > for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au > "The nice thing about standards is that there > are so many of them to choose from." > -- Andrew Tanenbaum > > > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 9:12:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F3114FCB for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by mx.nsu.ru (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA07711 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:11:47 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from localhost (fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA41761 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:11:47 +0700 (NSS) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:11:47 +0700 (NSS) From: Max Khon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: .so versions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, there! sorry if this question is not for -hackers I have some program that loads some .so via dlopen (ELF) and the looks up some symbols in that .so (functions) and calls that functions (with some known ABI). There are two problems with this: - how to check ABI version for program and .so (to be sure that ABI version used by program and implemented in .so are the same) - how to reload foo.so safely. i.e. if there were any errors while reloading foo.so the program should be able to run with previously loaded version of foo.so (symbols obtained from previous load of foo.so should not be lost). /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 11:28:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.chromatix.com (unknown [207.97.115.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ABAD14DC0; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:28:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick@chromatix.com) Received: from dogwood (dogwood.chromatix.com [207.97.115.140]) by mail.chromatix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA14442; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:28:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from nick@chromatix.com) Message-ID: <002001bebdf7$f8719e40$8c7361cf@dogwood.chromatix.com> From: "Nick LoPresti" To: , Subject: NIS Question Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:13:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here's my situation: 1. I would like to set up NIS on my network. 2. I have one FreeBSD system(2.2.6) 3. I have many other flavors of Unix on this network 4. I would like the FreeBSD system to export it's passwd and group files to the other machines How do I achieve this? Do I just run ypserv & ypbind? Any FAQ's around??? Thanx up front! ================================================ Nick nick@chromatix.com Web Page: http://www.lopresti.dhs.org/users/nick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 12:33:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outland.cyberwar.com (outland.cyberwar.com [206.88.128.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A49C15061 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:33:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billg@cyberwar.com) Received: from zippy (zippy.cyberwar.com [206.88.128.80]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28248 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.54.19990623153300.00a4ab00@pop.cyberwar.com> X-Sender: billg@pop.cyberwar.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.54 (Beta) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:37:00 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Bill G Subject: Re: Serial Console Wierdness In-Reply-To: <199906221739.KAA13462@sigma.veritas.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Followup to my original post, and to the replies. I am now using kermit -- which works great (better than having to reconnect with cu all the time). I was able to get rid of the garbage (anytime output scrolled past the end of the screen[24 lines]), by using a different terminal program. I was using plain old xterm, I fired up Eterm - and it works without a hitch. Also, I did re-compile and am now successfully connecting at 115200. Bill >I got a serial console working on COM2, to which I have connected >another FreeBSD box. I connect with 'cu' fine, but I'm running into >a couple of problems which I haven't been able to find and answer >for. > >o When I connect, when the machine is first turned on, I get > disconnected twice during the boot up sequence (cu reports > Got hangup signal) -- looks like when the sio1 device is > probed, and also when getty runs. > >o 9600 was rather slow, so I changed it to 115200, which worked, > however I had a few problems with terminal display -- any > output that scrolls down past the bottom of the screen gets > 'garbled'. (IE, I run clear; ls -l / -- the first 23 lines > look ok then it gets messed up). Same results from console > mode of my client machine and from an xterm. I thought that > 115200 might be too fast, so I slowed it down to 38400, but > same trouble. I'm not sure if this occured at 9600. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 13: 4: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F023D1519C for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:03:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA04481 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:51:55 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:51:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Difference between msync() and fsync() Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG After we mmap a file, we can write back the dirty pages of the file either by calling msync() or fsync(). After reading the source code, it seems to me that they actually does the same thing. msync() will eventually call VOP_FSYNC() as fsync() does. Since msync() has already call the routine vm_object_page_clean() to write back the dirty pages of the file, VOP_FSYNC() really does not have much left to do except update the inode. So is there any real differnce between msync() and fsync() on mmapped files? Or are they simply provided to do the same thing in an alternate way? Thanks for any help. -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 13:29:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9148E14E06 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:29:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@acl.lanl.gov) Received: from localhost (rminnich@localhost) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA954795; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:29:46 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:29:46 -0600 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Difference between msync() and fsync() In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You should first check out how msync/fsync work on something like solaris, since every time I've checked for the last five years or so no version of bsd has really got it working right (although netbsd + UVM may finally have it). To observe msync/fsync in action use tcpdump to watch a host as it does msync/fsync on an nfs-mounted file system. You can tell by the NFS packets what's actually going on. Be sure to do msync on partial mapped ranges, not simple msync's of the whole region, as well as on dirty pages, clean pages, etc. Obviously for clean pages you should see no traffic when the msync is called, and you should see traffic when the page is referenced again. I've never had this latter test work on freebsd, and lots of other os'es. The only OS it ever really worked correctly on is sunos/solaris. You can search old archives for a long message from me (ca. 1995?) about how msync doesn't work right on freebsd. ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 14: 6:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pak2.texar.com (unknown [216.208.160.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 404571535D for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:05:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dseg@pak2.texar.com) Received: from localhost (dseg@localhost) by pak2.texar.com (8.9.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA21346 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:08:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Seguin To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Connect and so on.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All. I'm trying to create a system call that will burst a (pseudo) quick tcp message out to a remote host every time that it is called. I've got the system call all worked out as a kld, it loads and restores without a hitch. I use the calling proc's table as it is passed to the system call, and am trying to call socket and connect as if the user process originally called them one by one (from userland syscall 97 and 98). I seem to be getting the correct behaviour from socket, but the connect call fails. After DDB'ing and breaking on the call to connect, it appears to fail at copyin with an EFAULT (invalid address). Call stack: copyin from getsockaddr from connect. What am I missing here, and/or what incorrect assumptions have I made? I'm including the actual system call function below. Thanks! Dan P.S. I test the system call from userland with a small C prog that uses syscall(). -------- CODE starts ---------------- static int init_comms(p, uap) struct proc *p; register struct nosys_args *uap; { int sockfd1, stat; struct socket_args socket_uap; struct connect_args connect_uap; static struct sockaddr_in servaddr; socket_uap.domain = PF_LOCAL; socket_uap.type = SOCK_STREAM; socket_uap.protocol = 0; printf("\ninit_comms: proc -> pid: %d\n", (int) p->p_pid); stat = socket(p, &socket_uap); sockfd1 = p->p_retval[0]; bzero(&servaddr, sizeof(servaddr)); servaddr.sin_family = AF_LOCAL; servaddr.sin_port = htons(13); servaddr.sin_len = sizeof servaddr; if ( inet_aton((char *) "127.0.0.1", &servaddr.sin_addr) <= 0 ) printf("\ninet_aton failed.\n"); printf("\nservaddr: %x\n", servaddr.sin_addr.s_addr); /* Prints 100007e */ connect_uap.s = sockfd1; connect_uap.name = (caddr_t) &servaddr; connect_uap.namelen = sizeof servaddr; stat = 0; stat = connect(p, &connect_uap); printf("\nConnect Stat: %d\n", stat); /* Prints 14 (EFAULT) */ return 0; } ------------------------- Code Ends ----------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 15:44:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5778514C1A; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:43:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA45468; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:33:57 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:33:57 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mike Smith , Mark Newton , hm@hcs.de, nick.hibma@jrc.it, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)) Message-ID: <19990623233357.A43818@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990623084919.R76907@freebie.lemis.com> <199906230652.XAA00630@dingo.cdrom.com> <19990623163928.E581@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990623163928.E581@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 04:39:28PM +0930 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 04:39:28PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > > But Mark illustrates my point perfectly; developers don't write > > documentation. That's what camp followers are for. So far, we have > > the ones that whine about the loot and throw mud at us when we march > > too slowly, but not enough of the ones that sew our banners, mend our > > pots and pans, or teach our version of the gospel to the heathens we > > subdue. > > You can never get enough of them. And you don't get them by calling them "camp followers" either. You get them by supporting them. Documentation doesn't spring out of thin air. If (to pick an example) the new syscons stuff[1] is undocumented then someone's got to document it. Right now, that can only be done by the original developers. In three month's time we might have enough people who have written code with it that they could do it. And in a year's time we might have someone who's been diligently following the mailing lists and has managed to piece something together based on what they've soon. Or who has been forced to use this mass of undocumented code[2], worked out how it works, *and* taken the time to write the documentation. So, when do you want useful documentation? N [1] Chosen at random. I haven't looked at it, so have no idea how clear or easy to follow the syscons code is. [2] See footnote 1 again. -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 15:44:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE3C914EC0 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA89972; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:44:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Dan Seguin Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Connect and so on.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Dan Seguin wrote: > > > Hi All. > > I'm trying to create a system call that will burst a (pseudo) quick tcp > message out to a remote host every time that it is called. I've got the > system call all worked out as a kld, it loads and restores without a > hitch. Good, you're mostly there then! > > I use the calling proc's table as it is passed to the system call, and am > trying to call socket and connect as if the user process originally called > them one by one (from userland syscall 97 and 98). I seem to be getting > the correct behaviour from socket, but the connect call fails. After > DDB'ing and breaking on the call to connect, it appears to fail at copyin > with an EFAULT (invalid address). Call stack: copyin from getsockaddr from > connect. What am I missing here, and/or what incorrect assumptions have I > made? I'm including the actual system call function below. copyin() is done to get the sockaddr from the connect call. A copyin() is a user-space to kernel-space memory copy, so you have a problem in your code (I'll point out where below). > > Thanks! > > Dan > > P.S. I test the system call from userland with a small C prog that uses > syscall(). > > -------- CODE starts ---------------- > > static int init_comms(p, uap) > struct proc *p; > register struct nosys_args *uap; > { > int sockfd1, stat; > struct socket_args socket_uap; > struct connect_args connect_uap; > static struct sockaddr_in servaddr; This needs to be a valid structure in USER space, not kernel. > > socket_uap.domain = PF_LOCAL; > socket_uap.type = SOCK_STREAM; > socket_uap.protocol = 0; > > stat = socket(p, &socket_uap); if (stat) return stat; > > sockfd1 = p->p_retval[0]; > > bzero(&servaddr, sizeof(servaddr)); > > servaddr.sin_family = AF_LOCAL; > servaddr.sin_port = htons(13); > servaddr.sin_len = sizeof servaddr; > > > if ( inet_aton((char *) "127.0.0.1", &servaddr.sin_addr) <= 0 ) This is a bogus cast. const char * to char *? > printf("\ninet_aton failed.\n"); So return EINVAL. > > > printf("\nservaddr: %x\n", servaddr.sin_addr.s_addr); AHEM! Why?? > > /* Prints 100007e */ Try using servaddr.sin_addr.saddr = 0; > > connect_uap.s = sockfd1; > connect_uap.name = (caddr_t) &servaddr; That's the problem. It needs to point to (say) uap->servaddr; > connect_uap.namelen = sizeof servaddr; > > stat = 0; > stat = connect(p, &connect_uap); > > printf("\nConnect Stat: %d\n", stat); > Take that out. > /* Prints 14 (EFAULT) */ > > return 0; return stat instead. The standard is to use a variable named "error". > > } > > ------------------------- Code Ends ----------------------- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Note that I haven't checked the correctness of the code other than a quick glance. These errors are real, though. Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 16:21:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC7414D2E; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:21:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA38343; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:20:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Nik Clayton Cc: Greg Lehey , Mike Smith , Mark Newton , hm@hcs.de, nick.hibma@jrc.it, Doug Rabson , Peter Wemm , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)) In-Reply-To: <19990623233357.A43818@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: [deleted cvs-all from the list of cc's, how'd it get there? > On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 04:39:28PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > But Mark illustrates my point perfectly; developers don't write > > > documentation. That's what camp followers are for. So far, we have > > > the ones that whine about the loot and throw mud at us when we march > > > too slowly, but not enough of the ones that sew our banners, mend our > > > pots and pans, or teach our version of the gospel to the heathens we > > > subdue. > > > > You can never get enough of them. > > And you don't get them by calling them "camp followers" either. But one thing I like is, although FreeBSD *does* try to appease user demands, it's controlled by programmers, not users, so if something is a technically extemely evil idea, no matter how the masses yell for it, it will NOT happen. We want to listen to our users, we don't want to disparage them, but we sure don't want to "sell our souls" to the masses either. FreeBSD is technical, and we want it to stay that way. If we can be smart and form something that everyone else likes, that's also very good, but not the first priority, I think. Making something we are all proud of, that's what keeps programmers here. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic and jaunt, both FreeBSD-current. (301) 220-2114 | ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 16:45:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mpp.pro-ns.net (mpp.pro-ns.net [208.200.182.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7D1B14EC0; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:45:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.pro-ns.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00888; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:44:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mpp) From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199906232344.SAA00888@mpp.pro-ns.net> Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-Reply-To: <19990623154745.D581@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jun 23, 1999 03:47:45 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:44:37 -0500 (CDT) Cc: taavi@uninet.ee (Taavi Talvik), asmodai@wxs.nl (Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai), mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wednesday, 23 June 1999 at 9:12:12 +0300, Taavi Talvik wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > If you write man pages first time, it is quite close to clack magic. > > It would be really nice if someone comfortant with troff/nroff etc. > > would make Handbook page describing how to get started with it. > > Maybe even templates or script generating page sceletion and pointers to > > them under some handbook entry > > > ... > > There's a man page for it :-) > > mdoc.samples(7). Now tell me that that's not intuitive. And in /usr/share/examples/mdoc there are three example templates for section 1, 3, and 4 manual pages. - Sections 1, 6 and 8 are all pretty much the same (user commands, games, administrator commands). - Sections 2 and 3 are pretty much the same (system calls and library functions). - Section 4 is used to describe external kernel interfaces. The individual formats can vary. The most common format is defined in example.4. - Section 5 is used to describe file formats, and due to the individual requirements of each different man page, there really isn't a general purpose template that would cover most cases. What I usually do for this section is to find another man page that I want mine to look like and edit it to suit my taste. - Section 7 is for misc. documentation. Format varys with what is being documented. - Section 9 is similar to section 2, with a sprinkling of section 4 in some cases, and then some more depending on the interface. Again, for something fancy, look for man page that has all of the different sections you want in your own man page and edit to taste. Also refer to mdoc.samples(7) and mdoc(7). mdoc(7) briefly describes all of the different mdoc macros. mdoc.samples(7) describes them all, along with examples of how each one should be used. As someone who has written a number of manual pages for FreeBSD, I think that for most things the examples in /usr/share/examples/mdoc should serve most would be man page writers fine (I use them). For more complex man pages, I usually just grab an existing man page and edit to tase. -Mike -- Mike Pritchard mpp@FreeBSD.ORG or mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 17:19:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7216214F30 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:19:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA22622; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:18:47 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990623163928.E581@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199906230652.XAA00630@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 11:52:25PM -0700 <19990623084919.R76907@freebie.lemis.com> <199906230652.XAA00630@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:19:37 -0400 To: Greg Lehey , Mike Smith From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >> [someone said] >>| [someone said] >>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation >>|> standards. >>| >>| He said "commercial", not "toy". >> >> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks >> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms >> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic >> benchmarks, > > Really? This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm > astounded. How about some details? I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting. I assume he's talking about system performance, and not documentation performance. Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest service pack on WinNT 4? --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 19:42: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4236414E94 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:42:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id TAA17302; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id TAA02631; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:41:51 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA27805; Wed, 23 Jun 99 19:41:49 PDT Message-Id: <37719AEC.31DB01FB@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:41:48 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Jesus Monroy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ispell(1) is for WIMPs (was Re: vi(1) is for whimps) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On 22 Jun 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: > > > vi(1) is for whimps > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html > > As long as you're critiquing people for what you called (paraphrased) "a > smiley that made you sound insincere", I guess I'll point out that > the word is "wimps". If you're going to stand on a soap box and preach, you should probably make sure the lables on the soap box aren't contradicting your message. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 20:24:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D123C14D49 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:24:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA94715; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:24:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Greg Lehey , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote: > >On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > >> [someone said] > >>| [someone said] > >>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation > >>|> standards. > >>| > >>| He said "commercial", not "toy". > >> > >> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks > >> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms > >> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic > >> benchmarks, > > > > Really? This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm > > astounded. How about some details? > > I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting. I assume > he's talking about system performance, and not documentation > performance. Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest > service pack on WinNT 4? s/interesting/unbelievable/g and you've got my reaction. This makes so little sense that I can't even imagine it. > > --- > Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu > Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu > Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 20:27:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6F214D49 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:27:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA94754; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:27:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Wes Peters Cc: Bill Fumerola , Jesus Monroy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ispell(1) is for WIMPs (was Re: vi(1) is for whimps) In-Reply-To: <37719AEC.31DB01FB@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This belongs in freebsd-chat, if anywhere. Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 20:31:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C6314D44 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:31:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id WAA06434; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:30:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990623223038.A6422@Denninger.Net> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:30:38 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: "Brian F. Feldman" , Garance A Drosihn Cc: Greg Lehey , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian F. Feldman on Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 11:24:03PM -0400 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 11:24:03PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > > At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote: > > >On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > >> [someone said] > > >>| [someone said] > > >>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation > > >>|> standards. > > >>| > > >>| He said "commercial", not "toy". > > >> > > >> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks > > >> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms > > >> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic > > >> benchmarks, > > > > > > Really? This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm > > > astounded. How about some details? > > > > I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting. I assume > > he's talking about system performance, and not documentation > > performance. Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest > > service pack on WinNT 4? > > s/interesting/unbelievable/g and you've got my reaction. This makes so little > sense that I can't even imagine it. Me too. I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs running Windows. Its more stable too; the stability is a free "bonus" that comes at no extra charge :-). -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 20:42:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.ideal.net.au (magnesium.ideal.net.au [203.20.241.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54BC314DC2; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:42:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@ugh.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by magnesium.ideal.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA07378; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:39:51 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from andrew@ugh.net.au) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:39:50 +1000 (EST) From: andrew@ugh.net.au X-Sender: andrew@magnesium.ideal.net.au To: Greg Lehey Cc: Taavi Talvik , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Mike Smith , hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-Reply-To: <19990623154745.D581@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: X-WonK: *wibble* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > There's a man page for it :-) > > mdoc.samples(7). Now tell me that that's not intuitive. Is it just me or does everyone get a (non-fatal) error as mdoc.samples(7) is formatted? The perfect man page for an error as well :-) Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 20:49: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C277714DC2 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:49:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA50317; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:48:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Karl Denninger Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: <19990623223038.A6422@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 11:24:03PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > > > > At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > >On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > > >> [someone said] > > > >>| [someone said] > > > >>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation > > > >>|> standards. > > > >>| > > > >>| He said "commercial", not "toy". > > > >> > > > >> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks > > > >> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms > > > >> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic > > > >> benchmarks, > > > > > > > > Really? This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm > > > > astounded. How about some details? > > > > > > I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting. I assume > > > he's talking about system performance, and not documentation > > > performance. Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest > > > service pack on WinNT 4? > > > > s/interesting/unbelievable/g and you've got my reaction. This makes so little > > sense that I can't even imagine it. > > Me too. > > I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the > machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs > running Windows. > > Its more stable too; the stability is a free "bonus" that comes at no > extra charge :-). I wish people wouldn't jump in with claims like this... (not the stability part) Ok well here are some real numbers for you.. Win NT 4processors 1GB ram + raid array + IIS webbench... 4000 transactions per second... FreeBSD.. Identical hardware.. 1450 transactions per seccond Linux: 2000 per second Solaris86 6000 per second With Netbench: NT blows us away. (we're talking an order of magnitude faster) I'm not going ot give real numbers as I don't have them readily at hand but they are something like 12MB/Sec for FreeBSD vs 90 MB/sec for NT and 120MB/sec for linux. Matt has some patches that raise the 12 to 35 and kirk has some changes that may raise the numbers to 70 or more, and John has some patches that may add more again, but it's all theory, and some of the patches have had less results than we expected. With Uniprocessor things are a lot more equal. but we still suck on netbench. This is due to the exact form of netbench which is exactly nonoptimal for FreeBSD. Also becaosue of the GKL (Giant Kernel Lock) (see Solaris's results) Basically there are some applications and benchmarks for which FreeBSD will really suck. We're working on them but some things are just a result of how we do things. So don't assume that NT figures must be bad.. we have too many weaknesses in our own code to throw stones. It'd be intersting to see how FreeBSD 1.1.5 would have performed on the same tests. Sometimes we've gained in general performance but lost in some specific cases. julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 20:51:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA72151C9; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:51:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA39498; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:50:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: andrew@ugh.net.au Cc: Greg Lehey , Taavi Talvik , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Mike Smith , hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 andrew@ugh.net.au wrote: > > > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > There's a man page for it :-) > > > > mdoc.samples(7). Now tell me that that's not intuitive. > > Is it just me or does everyone get a (non-fatal) error as mdoc.samples(7) > is formatted? The perfect man page for an error as well :-) I saw it flash by too quick to read, the first time, but when I tried to do it step by step, so as to catch the error with |&, I couldn't detect any error any more. Probably because of caching, I can't see any error just running man anymore. Tkman, which usually shows me those transient errors, can't see it either. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic and jaunt, both FreeBSD-current. (301) 220-2114 | ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 20:56:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gizmo.internode.com.au (gizmo.internode.com.au [192.83.231.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F33151C9 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:56:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@gizmo.internode.com.au) Received: (from newton@localhost) by gizmo.internode.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA42270; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:23:19 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from newton) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199906240353.NAA42270@gizmo.internode.com.au> Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) To: karl@Denninger.Net (Karl Denninger) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:23:19 +0930 (CST) Cc: green@unixhelp.org, drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990623223038.A6422@Denninger.Net> from "Karl Denninger" at Jun 23, 99 10:30:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger wrote: > I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the > machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs > running Windows. Granted. Perhaps we're seeing an artifact of NT's developers focussing on optimizing their system for good benchmark performance rather than good real-world performance. 'twill be interesting to see the offical report to find out where the various strengths and weaknesses really are. - mark ---- Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 20:57:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.ideal.net.au (magnesium.ideal.net.au [203.20.241.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F130314ED5; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:57:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@ugh.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by magnesium.ideal.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA07483; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:55:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from andrew@ugh.net.au) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:55:43 +1000 (EST) From: andrew@ugh.net.au X-Sender: andrew@magnesium.ideal.net.au To: Chuck Robey Cc: Greg Lehey , Taavi Talvik , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Mike Smith , hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-WonK: *wibble* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > I saw it flash by too quick to read, the first time, but when I tried to People with no lag.... The error is: Usage: .Rv -std sections 2 and 3 only > Probably because of caching, I can't see any error just running man Yep...rm /usr/share/man/cat7/mdoc.samples.7.gz to see it again. Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 21: 3:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C0914CAA; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:02:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA39580; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:02:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: andrew@ugh.net.au Cc: Greg Lehey , Taavi Talvik , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Mike Smith , hm@hcs.de, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 andrew@ugh.net.au wrote: > > > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > I saw it flash by too quick to read, the first time, but when I tried to > > People with no lag.... > > The error is: > > Usage: .Rv -std sections 2 and 3 only That error is funny! It's true, .Rv -std is only valid for sections 2 and three, it says so in the man page right below the part that gives this error! It bothers nothing, I would leave it just as it is! Mdoc.samples is section 7, you know .... > > > Probably because of caching, I can't see any error just running man > > Yep...rm /usr/share/man/cat7/mdoc.samples.7.gz to see it again. > > Andrew > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic and jaunt, both FreeBSD-current. (301) 220-2114 | ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 21: 5:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lamb.sas.com (lamb.sas.com [192.35.83.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F22715014 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:05:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwd@unx.sas.com) Received: from mozart (mozart.unx.sas.com [192.58.184.8]) by lamb.sas.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA22806 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bb01f39.unx.sas.com by mozart (5.65c/SAS/Domains/5-6-90) id AA24049; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:04:30 -0400 Received: (from jwd@localhost) by bb01f39.unx.sas.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA34801 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:04:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jwd) From: "John W. DeBoskey" Message-Id: <199906240404.AAA34801@bb01f39.unx.sas.com> Subject: Login validation by home directory location (PAM?) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:04:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have an administration problem that I'm trying to solve and I'm looking for comments and ideas. I have about 6000 users in the passwd file. We have a number of compute servers available to these users which (the boss) wants to have allocated according to where the users home directory is located. All the home directories are mounted via amd on a /nfs/machine.name.domain/ mount point. user1:::::/nfs/m1/usr/home/user1 user2:::::/nfs/m1/usr/home/user2 user3:::::/nfs/m1/usr/home/user3 For example, I want to allow user2 access to host server2, but not hosts server1 or server3. I don't want to have alot of passwd file maintenance, so I thought about modifing login to validate on the users home directory. So, in auth_traditional(), I check to see where the home directory is, and if it is valid for the current machine I authorize the login, otherwise I output an access denied msg and return failure. There must be a better way of doing this, but I don't see how. I've looked at PAM, but I don't understand how I could make this type of facility work except maybe in the pam_authenticate() routine. However, this seems complicated compared to simply modifying auth_traditional(). I'd appreciate any comments from folks who have done anything similar or used PAM to solve a related type of management issue. Thanks! John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 21:15: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D94A14CAA for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:15:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id NAA27622; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:44:59 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA02269; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:43:10 +0930 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:43:09 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: "John W. DeBoskey" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Login validation by home directory location (PAM?) In-Reply-To: <199906240404.AAA34801@bb01f39.unx.sas.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, John W. DeBoskey wrote: > There must be a better way of doing this, but I don't see > how. I've looked at PAM, but I don't understand how I could make > this type of facility work except maybe in the pam_authenticate() > routine. However, this seems complicated compared to simply > modifying auth_traditional(). Disclaimer: I'm only just reading about how PAM works, I haven't written any PAM modules. This sounds like a job for a PAM `account' module: these permit access to resources based on non-authentication mechanisms (such as time of day, whether you're on the system console or on the network, etc). It shouldn't be too difficult to write a module to permit/deny logins based on machine name and the user home directory, or whatever. PAM being modular, you would just insert this module into the relevant resource access stack in the config file. Check out the Linux-PAM documentation at http://www.au.kernel.org/pub/linux/libs/pam/Linux-PAM-doc.tar.gz which seems (from what I've read so far) quite good. Kris ----- "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 21:23: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (unknown [205.253.70.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1391D14CAA for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rcarter@psf.Pinyon.ORG) Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by psf.Pinyon.ORG (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA94722; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:21:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rcarter@psf.Pinyon.ORG) Message-Id: <199906240421.VAA94722@psf.Pinyon.ORG> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:48:54 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:21:10 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG %Basically there are some applications and benchmarks for which FreeBSD uh, "benchmarks" only, until evidence is produced otherwise. Tuning for benchmarks has been around a long long time. People get worked up about this because the people who give out the money to buy the systems use benchmarks to decide whom to give the money to. It's really, really stupid to rely on generic benchmarks. But people do, anyway. So I guess whistle and some others should invest in tuning for the benchmarks. Like jupiter, eh? Or maybe Apple. But for the rest, I wouldn't panic. In fact, there's probably some interesting kernel architecture issues here. Let's hear them, now! If I wanted secrecy about architecture details there's a shitload less time consuming ways to do it then follow FreeBSD. Russell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 21:45:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6330B14F43 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:45:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA53565; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:45:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: "Russell L. Carter" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: <199906240421.VAA94722@psf.Pinyon.ORG> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Russell L. Carter wrote: > > %Basically there are some applications and benchmarks for which FreeBSD > > uh, "benchmarks" only, until evidence is produced otherwise. > > Tuning for benchmarks has been around a long long time. > > People get worked up about this because the people who give > out the money to buy the systems use benchmarks to decide > whom to give the money to. > > It's really, really stupid to rely on generic benchmarks. > > But people do, anyway. So I guess whistle and some others should > invest in tuning for the benchmarks. Like jupiter, eh? Or maybe > Apple. > > But for the rest, I wouldn't panic. > > In fact, there's probably some interesting kernel architecture > issues here. Let's hear them, now! If I wanted secrecy about > architecture details there's a shitload less time consuming > ways to do it then follow FreeBSD. ok here are some of the problems.. Matt's changes allow dd to copy data at 2.5 times the rate it did before. I consider dd to be an application. The problem is due to resource handling in the kernel and results in large amounts of Idle CPU time. Another primary problem with the FreeBSD kernel (being addressed by Kirk) is that after writing a file, once the data has been queued for IO you cannot read the data in that file (even though it is present) until the IO is complete. With 64 tags, it is concievable that this could take a half second on a modern disk. These are problems shown up by the benchmarks but which can be shown to affect ordinary operations. There are other problems related to SMP and the GKL.. e.g.. two processes cannot access buffers at the same time, even though they are both present , because only one of them is allowed in the kernel at a time. Therefore One processor will spend a bunch of time at idle.. > > Russell > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 22:21:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (unknown [205.253.70.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B918155A5 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:21:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rcarter@psf.Pinyon.ORG) Received: from psf.Pinyon.ORG (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by psf.Pinyon.ORG (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA26709; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:20:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rcarter@psf.Pinyon.ORG) Message-Id: <199906240520.WAA26709@psf.Pinyon.ORG> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:45:42 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:20:24 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG % % %On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Russell L. Carter wrote: % %> %> %Basically there are some applications and benchmarks for which FreeBSD %> %> uh, "benchmarks" only, until evidence is produced otherwise. [...] %ok here are some of the problems.. % %Matt's changes allow dd to copy data at 2.5 times the rate it did before. %I consider dd to be an application. The problem is due to resource %handling in the kernel and results in large amounts of Idle CPU time. Ok, why doesn't this show up in any of the disk or network benchmarks? %Another primary problem with the FreeBSD kernel (being addressed by Kirk) %is that after writing a file, once the data has been queued for IO you %cannot read the data in that file (even though it is present) until the IO %is complete. With 64 tags, it is concievable that this could take a half %second on a modern disk. That's interesting. %These are problems shown up by the benchmarks but %which can be shown to affect ordinary operations. % %There are other problems related to SMP and the GKL.. %e.g.. two processes cannot access buffers at the same time, even though %they are both present , because only one of them is allowed in the kernel %at a time. Therefore One processor will spend a bunch of time at idle.. Yup. Thanks for filling us in! Russell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 23 23:10: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2A814CA8 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:09:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA11976; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:09:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3771CBA7.4973C681@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:09:43 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer Cc: "Russell L. Carter" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > > ok here are some of the problems.. > > Matt's changes allow dd to copy data at 2.5 times the rate it did before. > I consider dd to be an application. The problem is due to resource > handling in the kernel and results in large amounts of Idle CPU time. > > Another primary problem with the FreeBSD kernel (being addressed by Kirk) > is that after writing a file, once the data has been queued for IO you > cannot read the data in that file (even though it is present) until the IO > is complete. With 64 tags, it is concievable that this could take a half > second on a modern disk. > > These are problems shown up by the benchmarks but > which can be shown to affect ordinary operations. > > There are other problems related to SMP and the GKL.. > e.g.. two processes cannot access buffers at the same time, even though > they are both present , because only one of them is allowed in the kernel > at a time. Therefore One processor will spend a bunch of time at idle.. I think it's been pretty well known since the beginning that FreeBSD SMP performance is nothing to cheer about. How does FreeBSD fare against NT or other systems on single processor systems? I think we call consider SMP to be a "work in progress." -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 0:51:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74F614A12; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:50:28 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id NHL6LWYR; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:42:31 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10x4I9-000Pa8-00; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:51:25 +0100 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:51:25 +0100 To: Nick LoPresti Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NIS Question Message-Id: <19990624085123.A98128@palmerharvey.co.uk> References: <002001bebdf7$f8719e40$8c7361cf@dogwood.chromatix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <002001bebdf7$f8719e40$8c7361cf@dogwood.chromatix.com>; from Nick LoPresti on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 12:13:53AM -0400 From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ This is probably better aimed at -questions, but seeing as I'm here... ] On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 12:13:53AM -0400, Nick LoPresti wrote: > Here's my situation: > > 1. I would like to set up NIS on my network. > 2. I have one FreeBSD system(2.2.6) > 3. I have many other flavors of Unix on this network > 4. I would like the FreeBSD system to export it's passwd and group files to > the other machines > > How do I achieve this? Do I just run ypserv & ypbind? Any FAQ's around??? Well, I've just been through the same problem (and spent around a day figuring out the answer...). Making your box a NIS server is easy. Just do grep -i nis /etc/defaults/rc.conf and plug the results into your /etc/rc.conf. You probably want to enable nis_server and yppasswdd. You probably also want to look at ypinit(8). The hard bit is making the other Unix hosts understand our password file. Beacuse we use MD5 encrypted passwords, instead of DES encrypted ones, they won't understand them by default. There's a couple of stages to this: 1) Install the DES routines. (easy) If you're still running -RELEASE, then try looking on your CD for the des packages. (harder) If you've moved up to -STABLE, then you'll need to cvsup the secure-all stuff and rebuild the world. When you've done that, you need to repoint the /usr/lib/libcrypt* symlinks to point at libdescrypt* instead of libscrypt*. That last step took a while to figure out. :-) 2) You need to set the UNSECURE variable in /var/yp/Makefile. Most of this stuff is documented in the various manpages for yp... One final word of warning. You'd be best off not distributing your root password over nis. In fact, Sun reccomends that when setting up a nis server, you keep a separate copy of the passwd file, without "system" users in it. This will make sharing the pasword file easier across multiple vendors. You may want to look at the Sun Answerbooks for some more tips and ideas: http://docs.sun.com/ -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator "Always think very hard before messing with TCP. And then don't." -- MC -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 1:53:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF9815220 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:53:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougGuy@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA13481; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:53:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougGuy@dal.net) Message-ID: <3771F20C.7CD06689@dal.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:53:32 -0700 From: Doug Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: John Baldwin , David Malone , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. References: <40401.930126544@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sheldon Hearn wrote: > I used to pride myself in my communication skills, but I'm starting to > doubt myself. :-) It's not that we don't understand you, it's that we don't agree with you. There is a HUGE difference. > My concern is that what you want introduces duplicate functionality. You keep saying, "but you can do something like what you want to do with tcp wrappers," but others are saying, quite clearly that they want to be able to COMPLETELY bypass tcp_wrappers altogether. Configuring tcp_wrappers for a specific case is very different from not having to configure it at all. > 1) Performance. > > I think we're all clear now that exclusion options will not > introduce a significant performance gain. We've already > scored our performance gain by obviating an exec on tcpd. By excluding tcp_wrappers you're also excluding the overhead to check the hosts.allow file. On a heavily loaded service this can be considerable. > It's critical that folks understand that built-in wrapping in inetd is > not the same as inetd passing the job of wrapping to a program called > tcpd. Something different is happening in each case. It just so happens > that the two cases share a common goal. Actually, the same thing is happening, just in different places. > When you say you want "functionality that exists with TCP wrappers", I > think you mean "identical semantics to those used with tcpd". You can't > have it, it's that simple. As long as you acknowledge that in this case, "You can't have it" is a design decision, and not everyone agrees with your concept of the design. Personally I don't care enough about it to write the patch, but that won't stop me from registering an objection since you seem to be assuming that silence == assent. > What you should be able to have is the same functionality as was > available when using tcpd. I don't think the fact that you may need to > set things up differently to achieve the same results as you had before > isn't a serious problem, because you're doing a different thing now. That's because you're looking at this from the standpoint of a developer who is deeply involved in the code on a daily basis. You need to start thinking of things in terms of the much more common case, the casual user who will be going from say, 3.0-Release to 3.3-Release without reading any of the documentation. Why should this user have to either go out of his way to fix something that wasn't broken, or find a critical service disabled when he reboots just because no one could be bothered to make the new interface compatible? As far as I'm concerned the system should ship with per service toggles, and all of them toggled off, with a hosts.allow with nothing but "ALL : ALL" in it. But then again I've been called overcautious. Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 2: 7:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D18154E8 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:06:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10x5SN-000Cjk-00; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:06:03 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Doug Cc: John Baldwin , David Malone , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:53:32 MST." <3771F20C.7CD06689@dal.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:06:03 +0200 Message-ID: <48963.930215163@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:53:32 MST, Doug wrote: > As long as you acknowledge that in this case, "You can't have it" is a > design decision, and not everyone agrees with your concept of the design. > Personally I don't care enough about it to write the patch, but that won't > stop me from registering an objection since you seem to be assuming that > silence == assent. You're right. If I make my intentions publically known and nobody objects, I assume public agreement. So I acknowledge that we're involved in design decisions here. > You need to start thinking of things in terms of the much more common > case, the casual user who will be going from say, 3.0-Release to > 3.3-Release without reading any of the documentation. You're making assumptions about what I'm trying to achieve. I'm quite sensitive to upgrade issues. > Why should this user have to either go out of his way to fix something > that wasn't broken, or find a critical service disabled when he > reboots just because no one could be bothered to make the new > interface compatible? Okay, this is what makes sense. :-) I do agree that it should be as easy as possible to upgrade from 3.2-RELEASE to 3.3-RELEASE. What you need to see is that such an upgrade _will_ involve changing some things, which is why we offer people release notes. What we're discussing (and have up until now disagreed on) is how much has to change. Since none of the people who've suggested per-case exclusion options for wrapping have come up with diffs, it's something I'll have to think about. If I can come up with something backward compatible without rupturing a testicle, I'll do so. Watch this space for details. :-) Cia, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 4:24:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from puma.wmin.ac.uk (puma.wmin.ac.uk [161.74.92.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7468B151DF for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 04:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smaraux@seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk) Received: from seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk by puma.wmin.ac.uk with INTERNAL-SMTP (MMTA) with ESMTP; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:22:31 +0100 Received: from localhost (smaraux@localhost) by seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32265 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:22:42 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from smaraux@seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:22:42 +0100 (BST) From: Sebastien Maraux To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: sysinstall hacking - urgent Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I currently use sysinstall with the install.cfg configuration file for an automatic installation. I need to make sysinstall formating only a small FreeBSD partition of the disk and not the whole disk, or the free space. I already have a function that give me the size of the partition that I need to format. I would just like to choose the offset and the size for create_chunk(). The file that interest me is disks.c, in /usr/src/release/sysinstall, at the end, there is the all and free options... I would like to create another option, added to "all" and "free", says "custom" where I could specify the offset and the size. The problem is that I can't do this by taking some parts of "free" option code, because it doesn't seem to work ("unable to find X slice" or something like that, "X" is set in create_chunk.c, see later) Can anybody give me the structure of a whole disk accorded to sysinstall? with chunk structures, ... Or if someone know how to implement this, I would be glad to heard about it... (I think that I could take the code of "free" option a little bit modified) Others useful files are /usr/src/lib/libdisk/ create_chunk.c and chunk.c Thanks! Sebastien MARAUX To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 7:39:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF4514E17 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13024; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:39:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <37724324.E984AFD@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:39:32 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer , "Russell L. Carter" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) References: <3771CBA7.4973C681@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > ok here are some of the problems.. > > > > Matt's changes allow dd to copy data at 2.5 times the rate it did before. > > I consider dd to be an application. The problem is due to resource > > handling in the kernel and results in large amounts of Idle CPU time. > > > > Another primary problem with the FreeBSD kernel (being addressed by Kirk) > > is that after writing a file, once the data has been queued for IO you > > cannot read the data in that file (even though it is present) until the IO > > is complete. With 64 tags, it is concievable that this could take a half > > second on a modern disk. > > > > These are problems shown up by the benchmarks but > > which can be shown to affect ordinary operations. > > > > There are other problems related to SMP and the GKL.. > > e.g.. two processes cannot access buffers at the same time, even though > > they are both present , because only one of them is allowed in the kernel > > at a time. Therefore One processor will spend a bunch of time at idle.. > > I think it's been pretty well known since the beginning that FreeBSD > SMP performance is nothing to cheer about. How does FreeBSD fare > against NT or other systems on single processor systems? Sorry to follow up on my own message, but I noted today in PCWeek their trip back to the benchmark lab includes ripping 3 CPUs and 768M RAM out of the system, to benchmark how Linux and NT perform on "lower-end" hardware. They also allowed the RedHat dudes to switch to an Adaptec SCSI controller to talk to the RAID array. How are we holding up under this "diminished" configuration? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 7:58:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B929515456 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id JAA07566; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:58:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990624095801.A7559@Denninger.Net> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:58:01 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Mark Newton Cc: green@unixhelp.org, drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) References: <19990623223038.A6422@Denninger.Net> <199906240353.NAA42270@gizmo.internode.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199906240353.NAA42270@gizmo.internode.com.au>; from Mark Newton on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 01:23:19PM +0930 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 01:23:19PM +0930, Mark Newton wrote: > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the > > machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs > > running Windows. > > Granted. Perhaps we're seeing an artifact of NT's developers focussing > on optimizing their system for good benchmark performance rather than > good real-world performance. > > 'twill be interesting to see the offical report to find out where the > various strengths and weaknesses really are. > > - mark Yes. One place where we *ARE* weak is N-way (more than 2-way) SMP systems. I'm not at all sure why this happens, but I suspect that a big part of it is concurrency issues within the kernel and filesystem. BUT - for most REAL applications that configuration is a lose. For example, for a big web server I'd prefer 4 boxes and 4 IP addresses (round-robin) than one big box with a 4-way SMP system. Why? Because I get both better performance that way AND redundancy - if one box fails, I still have three more, all of which are working. If one box fails in a 4-way SMP configuration I have nothing at all. Now there ARE monolithic applications that don't take well to that kind of scaling - big DBMS servers, for example. But DBMS servers are typically I/O bound anyway, not CPU bound (there are exceptions, yes, but the general rule is that they are RAM and disk bound). I had an NT machine that ran file and print service for my office (before I sold the company). I replaced it with SAMBA on the same hardware. Performance more than doubled, and the ONLY thing that I changed was the operating system. That's but one real-world example out of many. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 8: 0:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 729B7152DF for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id KAA07588; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:00:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990624100041.B7559@Denninger.Net> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:00:41 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) References: <19990623223038.A6422@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Julian Elischer on Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 08:48:54PM -0700 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 08:48:54PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: > With Uniprocessor things are a lot more equal. > but we still suck on netbench. > > This is due to the exact form of netbench which is exactly nonoptimal for > FreeBSD. I'm not interested in benchmarks. I'm interested in real-world performance and real-world operational work done over units of time. > Also becaosue of the GKL (Giant Kernel Lock) (see Solaris's results) I know about the SMP issues. But in many applications going to SMP is actually a reliability AND throughput lose (web servers is one example). You're better off with 4 machines than 1 big 4-way machine. > So don't assume that NT figures must be bad.. > we have too many weaknesses in our own code to throw stones. > > It'd be intersting to see how FreeBSD 1.1.5 would have performed on the > same tests. Sometimes we've gained in general performance but lost in > some specific cases. Anyone can tune a kernel or OS for benchmarks. I'm a lot more interested in how it all works in the real world since you don't run benchmarks when you're trying to get real work done. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 8:56:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from noc.demon.net (server.noc.demon.net [193.195.224.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 512AB14D37 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fanf@demon.net) Received: by noc.demon.net; id QAA26488; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:56:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from fanf.noc.demon.net(195.11.55.83) by inside.noc.demon.net via smap (3.2) id xma026441; Thu, 24 Jun 99 16:56:10 +0100 Received: from fanf by fanf.noc.demon.net with local (Exim 1.73 #2) id 10xBrD-0000S5-00; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:56:07 +0100 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Tony Finch Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: <37724324.E984AFD@softweyr.com> References: <3771CBA7.4973C681@softweyr.com> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:56:07 +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > >Sorry to follow up on my own message, but I noted today in PCWeek >their trip back to the benchmark lab includes ripping 3 CPUs and >768M RAM out of the system, to benchmark how Linux and NT perform >on "lower-end" hardware. They also allowed the RedHat dudes to >switch to an Adaptec SCSI controller to talk to the RAID array. >How are we holding up under this "diminished" configuration? It's stupid to tune everything for performance except for the web server -- they should be using Zeus, not Apache. Tony. -- f.a.n.finch dot@dotat.at fanf@demon.net Winner, International Obfuscated C Code Competition 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 9: 7:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.inktomi.com (mercury.inktomi.com [209.1.32.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8DE414D20 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:07:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jplevyak@inktomi.com) Received: from tsdev (tsdev.inktomi.com [209.1.32.119]) by mercury.inktomi.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA29926; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jplevyak@localhost) by tsdev (SMI-8.6/) id JAA07537; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:07:20 -0700 Message-ID: <19990624090720.C7473@tsdev.inktomi.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:07:20 -0700 From: John Plevyak To: Karl Denninger , Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) References: <19990623223038.A6422@Denninger.Net> <19990624100041.B7559@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990624100041.B7559@Denninger.Net>; from Karl Denninger on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:00:41AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:00:41AM -0500, Karl Denninger wrote: > I know about the SMP issues. But in many applications going to SMP is > actually a reliability AND throughput lose (web servers is one example). > You're better off with 4 machines than 1 big 4-way machine. The problem is that a loaded 2-way machine is only slightly more expensive than a 1-way, and current trends indicate that 4-ways will be increasingly common. It isn't a question of 1 big 4-way vs 4 1-ways, but of what you can get of out $Xk worth of hardware. The current sweet spot is often some number of 2-ways, and if for your app the OS doesn't scale it can make that OS less economical by comparison. john -- John Bradley Plevyak, PhD, jplevyak@inktomi.com, PGP KeyID: 051130BD Inktomi Corporation, 1900 S. Norfolk Street, Suite 310, San Mateo, CA 94403 W:(650)653-2830 F:(650)653-2889 P:(888)491-1332/5103192436.4911332@pagenet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 9: 7:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from november.jaded.net (november.jaded.net [216.94.113.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA5815457 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:07:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@november.jaded.net) Received: (from dan@localhost) by november.jaded.net (8.9.3/8.9.3+trinsec_nospam) id MAA17645 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:18:16 -0400 From: Dan Moschuk To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Beating system usage down Message-ID: <19990624121816.A17448@trinsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, A machine that I hold very close under my wing has been very contently chugging along for the last few months with practically no idle processor. However, I noticed that the CPUs are spinning a lot of cycles in the system area. CPU states: 5.5% user, 0.0% nice, 88.9% system, 4.0% interrupt, 1.6% idle First, some background. The machine is a Dual P2-450 with 1GB of RAM. It runs apache, and currently handles 90 hits a second, with each of those hits spawning various CGIs (one per hit) that completes in under a second. My first theory was that the kernel was uselessly spinning in various record locks via fcntl(). However, as a test I removed all file locking from the various CGIs and noticed no change in the system usage. My second theory was the overhead with the SMP code. So, I removed it from the kernel and ran a single CPU box for a few minutes. The system usage went down to around 60%, but the system was noticeably slower. Any ideas? Regards, Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 9:31:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ACDBF14D9E for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:30:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA01215; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:05:15 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199906241405.QAA01215@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: weird socket behaviour (sbflush)... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:05:15 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1175 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, while implementing a reliable datagram protocol (PGM for what matters) i am hitting a weird behaviour of sbflush(). The problem is, the protocol (at least, in my implementation) allows the writing of zero-sized packets (essentially, just headers and no payload) which are put in the socket buffer. This results in some cases in sb_cc = 0, sb_mbcnt != 0, and this condition causes sbflush to panic. There is not an equivalent of this in TCP (which counts bytes, not segments) or UDP (which allows zero-sized packets but bypasses the socket buffer) so i am not sure if it is appropriate to "fix" sbflush() so that it uses sbdroprecord() instead of sbdrop() in case of a datagram protocol ? cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 9:39:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dirac.physik.uni-bonn.de (dirac.physik.uni-bonn.de [131.220.161.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3BFC152AF for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:38:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrad@dirac.physik.uni-bonn.de) Received: from merlin.physik.uni-bonn.de (merlin.physik.uni-bonn.de [131.220.161.121]) by dirac.physik.uni-bonn.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06350; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:38:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from conrad@merlin.physik.uni-bonn.de) Received: from localhost (conrad@localhost) by merlin.physik.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01063; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:38:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from conrad@merlin.physik.uni-bonn.de) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:38:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Jan Conrad To: julian@whistle.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.x NFS patchset Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Julian, I was trying out your patches 'nfs-3.diffs'. However, I think I have the wrong version (3.2-RELASE) of the original sources (1 Hunk in nfs_serv.c failed). Could you tell me which is the correct version of the sources to patch? I'd just love to see NFS work at boot time :-) best regards Jan -- Physikalisches Institut der Universitaet Bonn Nussallee 12 D-53115 Bonn GERMANY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 9:42:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from moebius2.Space.Net (moebius2.Space.Net [195.30.1.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7982A14C1E for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:42:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maex@Space.Net) Received: (qmail 13079 invoked by uid 1013); 24 Jun 1999 16:42:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19990624184216.U17353@space.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:42:16 +0200 From: Markus Stumpf To: Mark Newton , Karl Denninger Cc: green@unixhelp.org, drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) References: <19990623223038.A6422@Denninger.Net> <199906240353.NAA42270@gizmo.internode.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199906240353.NAA42270@gizmo.internode.com.au>; from Mark Newton on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 01:23:19PM +0930 Organization: SpaceNet GmbH, Muenchen, Germany Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 01:23:19PM +0930, Mark Newton wrote: > > I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the > > machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs > > running Windows. > > Granted. Perhaps we're seeing an artifact of NT's developers focussing > on optimizing their system for good benchmark performance rather than > good real-world performance. > > 'twill be interesting to see the offical report to find out where the > various strengths and weaknesses really are. The weaknesses are obvious and well documented by Microsoft itself. We have a customer that insisted on using NT for its webserver. Yesterday we had trouble with the time stamp in the logs. It simply stopped at a specific time. After that the timestamp was all the same. The problem was: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q223/1/37.asp "This problem can occur if the server runs for more than 49 days without being restarted" planck(1:327) $ uname -a FreeBSD planck 2.2.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE #0: Mon Jun 23 16:49:02 CEST 1997 root:/usr/src/sys/compile/CHDKERNEL i386 planck(1:328) $ uptime 6:39PM up 590 days, 22:04, 3 users, load averages: 0.01, 0.08, 0.07 *********** This server is NOT idling, it's acting (besides other things) as a radius server servering some thousand dialins. Do you need any other arguments? \Maex -- SpaceNet GmbH | http://www.Space.Net/ | Yeah, yo mama dresses Research & Development | mailto:maex-sig@Space.Net | you funny and you need Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 | Tel: +49 (89) 32356-0 | a mouse to delete files D-80807 Muenchen | Fax: +49 (89) 32356-299 | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 10:27:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CEE614FB3 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:27:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id TAA11219; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:27:44 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:27:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Markus Stumpf Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: <19990624184216.U17353@space.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The advantage of frequent reboots and patches is that at least you are up to date with security patches. :-) Nick > planck(1:327) $ uname -a > FreeBSD planck 2.2.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE #0: Mon Jun 23 > 16:49:02 CEST 1997 root:/usr/src/sys/compile/CHDKERNEL i386 > > planck(1:328) $ uptime > 6:39PM up 590 days, 22:04, 3 users, load averages: 0.01, 0.08, 0.07 > *********** > > This server is NOT idling, it's acting (besides other things) as a radius > server servering some thousand dialins. > > Do you need any other arguments? > > \Maex > > -- > SpaceNet GmbH | http://www.Space.Net/ | Yeah, yo mama dresses > Research & Development | mailto:maex-sig@Space.Net | you funny and you need > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 | Tel: +49 (89) 32356-0 | a mouse to delete files > D-80807 Muenchen | Fax: +49 (89) 32356-299 | > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 10:30: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3EDE814FB3 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:29:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA01428; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:04:20 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199906241504.RAA01428@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) To: nick.hibma@jrc.it Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:04:20 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: maex-freebsd-hackers@Space.Net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Nick Hibma" at Jun 24, 99 07:27:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 218 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The advantage of frequent reboots and patches is that at least you are > up to date with security patches. :-) LKM/KLD might help here... with the kernel of your kernel being essentially a linker :) cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 10:34:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 321E914FB3 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:34:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA77366; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:34:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Tony Finch Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the tests they used both Zeus AND Apache On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Tony Finch wrote: > Wes Peters wrote: > > > >Sorry to follow up on my own message, but I noted today in PCWeek > >their trip back to the benchmark lab includes ripping 3 CPUs and > >768M RAM out of the system, to benchmark how Linux and NT perform > >on "lower-end" hardware. They also allowed the RedHat dudes to > >switch to an Adaptec SCSI controller to talk to the RAID array. > >How are we holding up under this "diminished" configuration? > > It's stupid to tune everything for performance except for the web > server -- they should be using Zeus, not Apache. > > Tony. > -- > f.a.n.finch dot@dotat.at fanf@demon.net > Winner, International Obfuscated C Code Competition 1998 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 10:51:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jumping-spider.aracnet.com (jumping-spider.aracnet.com [205.159.88.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E976715147; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:51:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beattie@aracnet.com) Received: from shell2.aracnet.com (IDENT:1728@shell2.aracnet.com [216.99.193.20]) by jumping-spider.aracnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA31457; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:51:12 -0700 Received: from localhost by shell2.aracnet.com (8.8.7) id KAA05476; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:51:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: shell2.aracnet.com: beattie owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:51:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Beattie To: Nik Clayton Cc: Greg Lehey , Mike Smith , Mark Newton , hm@hcs.de, nick.hibma@jrc.it, dfr@nlsystems.com, peter@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)) In-Reply-To: <19990623233357.A43818@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 04:39:28PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > But Mark illustrates my point perfectly; developers don't write > > > documentation. That's what camp followers are for. So far, we have > > > the ones that whine about the loot and throw mud at us when we march > > > too slowly, but not enough of the ones that sew our banners, mend our > > > pots and pans, or teach our version of the gospel to the heathens we > > > subdue. > > > > You can never get enough of them. > > And you don't get them by calling them "camp followers" either. > > You get them by supporting them. Documentation doesn't spring out of > thin air. If (to pick an example) the new syscons stuff[1] is undocumented > then someone's got to document it. > Working on some particularly boring, and in my opinion usless documentation for work. It occured to me that in recalling the various flavors of UNIX, going back to version 6, that when the system is well documented, it is the the last version. Best example System Vr4. What this means? I don't know. If somebody would like to pay me the going rate for my services, for 6 months or so I might be willing to provide them with what ever documentation they wanted, for that six months anyway. Which is to say, that when you pay me, you get to tell me what to work on. When I work for free, I work on whatever I like. Functionality, is more important/interesting than documentation. > Right now, that can only be done by the original developers. In three > month's time we might have enough people who have written code with it > that they could do it. I see no evidence that the number of developers is increasing significantly, or that their focus id changing. > > And in a year's time we might have someone who's been diligently > following the mailing lists and has managed to piece something together > based on what they've soon. Or who has been forced to use this mass of > undocumented code[2], worked out how it works, *and* taken the time to > write the documentation. > We will get good documentation, when somebody decides there is a big enough market for the book, and pays somebody to write it. > So, when do you want useful documentation? > > N > > [1] Chosen at random. I haven't looked at it, so have no idea how clear > or easy to follow the syscons code is. > > [2] See footnote 1 again. > -- > [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, > non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs > the links. > -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Brian Beattie | The only problem with beattie@aracnet.com | winning the rat race ... www.aracnet.com/~beattie | in the end you're still a rat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 10:55:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00E114BF7 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:55:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17672; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:54:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:54:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug X-Sender: doug@dt054n86.san.rr.com To: Karl Denninger Cc: Mark Newton , green@unixhelp.org, drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: <19990624095801.A7559@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 01:23:19PM +0930, Mark Newton wrote: > > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the > > > machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs > > > running Windows. > > > > Granted. Perhaps we're seeing an artifact of NT's developers focussing > > on optimizing their system for good benchmark performance rather than > > good real-world performance. > > > > 'twill be interesting to see the offical report to find out where the > > various strengths and weaknesses really are. > > > > - mark > > Yes. > > One place where we *ARE* weak is N-way (more than 2-way) SMP systems. I'm > not at all sure why this happens, but I suspect that a big part of it is > concurrency issues within the kernel and filesystem. > > BUT - for most REAL applications that configuration is a lose. For example, > for a big web server I'd prefer 4 boxes and 4 IP addresses (round-robin) > than one big box with a 4-way SMP system. Why? Because I get both better > performance that way AND redundancy - if one box fails, I still have > three more, all of which are working. If one box fails in a 4-way > SMP configuration I have nothing at all. We're adding some machines at work for (essentially) cgi processing only. It was never considered to use anything less than 2 cpu boxes, and the current round of testing is going so well that we're seriously considering 4 cpu boxes because they are not that much more expensive and our processing is highly CPU bound. I agree that redundancy is a good thing, but at some point the increased network latency exceends the point of diminishing returns for the redundancy factor. In short, increasing SMP efficiency should really be a priority for N>2 systems. > I had an NT machine that ran file and print service for my office (before > I sold the company). I replaced it with SAMBA on the same hardware. > > Performance more than doubled, and the ONLY thing that I changed was the > operating system. Originally we were going to go with linux exclusively on this project, both because that's the only Intel unix my co-workers were familiar with, and based on recommendation from our proprietary CGI vendor. After weeks of soft soap I convinced my boss to use freebsd on one of the two boxes. Linux kicked our ass on the benchmarks for this program, mostly do to the "optimized idle loop" that was discussed here a couple of weeks ago. They beat us by 35% on the disk access/database tests, but I was able to get that down to only a 15% advantage if I went async. Fortunately my boss wasn't concerned about this test because the box is going to do 99% of its disk access over NFS, but... I told my boss (and he agreed completely) that benchmarks are not the same as real performance, so I was hoping to impress him with freebsd's stability and better performance in the real world application. And to a certain extent, I have, since when my box is running it's load average is consistently less than 1 while the linux box' load average is consistently over 5 with exactly the same number of requests. So, points for me on performance. However notice I said, "when my box is running." So far it's fallen down on NFS issues so many times that it's currently sidelined. The Linux box has been running for almost a week, and is currently handling the load for my box too. My boss has been patient, but he made the comment the other day that "so far freebsd is way ahead on the hassle factor" so I'm not sure that my part of the experiment is going to last much longer. Now if we were talking about a uni-processor system doing nothing but serving web pages from local disk, I know I'd be kicking some serious ass, but that model isn't the real world anymore. Especially as Network Appliance boxes become more and more common (and they will be, fast and furious) multi-processor and NFS are for all practical purposes already the reality now, and will only be more so in the future. Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 11:13:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96C914C4E for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:13:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id MAA08066; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:58:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990624125855.A8051@Denninger.Net> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:58:55 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Doug Cc: Mark Newton , green@unixhelp.org, drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) References: <19990624095801.A7559@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:54:37AM -0700 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:54:37AM -0700, Doug wrote: > We're adding some machines at work for (essentially) cgi > processing only. It was never considered to use anything less than 2 cpu > boxes, and the current round of testing is going so well that we're > seriously considering 4 cpu boxes because they are not that much more > expensive and our processing is highly CPU bound. I agree that redundancy > is a good thing, but at some point the increased network latency exceends > the point of diminishing returns for the redundancy factor. > > In short, increasing SMP efficiency should really be a priority > for N>2 systems. Agreed. But this is a BIG job, because to do that you have to solve the "one big kernel lock" problem and go to fine-grained locking. This is a non-trivial job. > > I had an NT machine that ran file and print service for my office (before > > I sold the company). I replaced it with SAMBA on the same hardware. > > > > Performance more than doubled, and the ONLY thing that I changed was the > > operating system. > ..... > However notice I said, "when my box is running." So > far it's fallen down on NFS issues so many times that it's currently > sidelined. What release are you running? There ARE NFS issues - most of which can be solved. I had to do this all the time running an ISP with a home-grown cluster system that did exactly that - all "real" data was sitting on a couple of big RAID arrays - and served via NFS. > Now if we were talking about a uni-processor system doing nothing > but serving web pages from local disk, I know I'd be kicking some serious > ass, but that model isn't the real world anymore. Especially as Network > Appliance boxes become more and more common (and they will be, fast and > furious) multi-processor and NFS are for all practical purposes already > the reality now, and will only be more so in the future. That's the world I lived in (except that I used FreeBSD for the NFS servers as well!) and done properly it works EXTREMELY well. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 11:13:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D93F14CA4 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:13:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (phoenix.cs.rpi.edu [128.113.96.153]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA65311; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906241812.OAA65311@cs.rpi.edu> To: Doug Cc: Karl Denninger , Mark Newton , green@unixhelp.org, drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: Message from Doug of "Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:54:37 PDT." Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:12:03 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I certainly hope you have applied the recent NFS patches. That should solve your problem. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 11:14:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D44814C91 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:14:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17734; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:14:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug X-Sender: doug@dt054n86.san.rr.com To: Karl Denninger Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: <19990624125855.A8051@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:54:37AM -0700, Doug wrote: > > In short, increasing SMP efficiency should really be a priority > > for N>2 systems. > > Agreed. But this is a BIG job, because to do that you have to solve the > "one big kernel lock" problem and go to fine-grained locking. This is a > non-trivial job. No argument there. My point was more in support of the people who were demonstrating how other platforms are kicking our ass. Responding with, "Yeah, but if you limit yourself to the specific case where freebsd performs well, we rock!" doesn't cut it. > > However notice I said, "when my box is running." So > > far it's fallen down on NFS issues so many times that it's currently > > sidelined. > > What release are you running? Started with 3.2-Stable, moved to -Current to get the latest and greatest NFS fixes, the problem is that most of the fixes are for the server, and my box is an amd/nfs client connecting to sun (almost all 2.6) servers. I've posted rather voluminously on this topic to both -current and -hackers over the past two weeks, but I've stopped doing that because I have nothing new and I haven't gotten any responses in a while. I just checked the archives and a search on those two lists for "heavily and loaded and amd" brings up the threads. I'm actually building world right now to get the latest NFS patch just in case it helps, but I'm not sure how much longer we (my department) can justfiy the expense of me fiddling around with this because we already know that the linux box works. > > Now if we were talking about a uni-processor system doing nothing > > but serving web pages from local disk, I know I'd be kicking some serious > > ass, but that model isn't the real world anymore. Especially as Network > > Appliance boxes become more and more common (and they will be, fast and > > furious) multi-processor and NFS are for all practical purposes already > > the reality now, and will only be more so in the future. > > That's the world I lived in (except that I used FreeBSD for the NFS > servers as well!) and done properly it works EXTREMELY well. I'm not going to have that luxury, and I really believe that NetApp and it's cousings are going to be THE point of access in the next year or so. They work too well to pass up, and now that they are OEM'ing the disk shelves they will be too cheap to justify rolling your own for all but the most diehard platform advocates. Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 11:34: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC70914D07 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:33:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10052; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:33:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Karl Denninger Cc: Doug , Mark Newton , drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: <19990624125855.A8051@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:54:37AM -0700, Doug wrote: > > We're adding some machines at work for (essentially) cgi > > processing only. It was never considered to use anything less than 2 cpu > > boxes, and the current round of testing is going so well that we're > > seriously considering 4 cpu boxes because they are not that much more > > expensive and our processing is highly CPU bound. I agree that redundancy > > is a good thing, but at some point the increased network latency exceends > > the point of diminishing returns for the redundancy factor. > > > > In short, increasing SMP efficiency should really be a priority > > for N>2 systems. > > Agreed. But this is a BIG job, because to do that you have to solve the > "one big kernel lock" problem and go to fine-grained locking. This is a > non-trivial job. We don't need fine-grained locks. We would get good performance if we could get (say) per-subsystem locks. > > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 11:47:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 208FA151E5 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA98612; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:47:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:47:35 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Nick Hibma Cc: Markus Stumpf , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) Message-ID: <19990624114734.A96181@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990624184216.U17353@space.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Nick Hibma on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 07:27:42PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 07:27:42PM +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: > The advantage of frequent reboots and patches is that at least you are > up to date with security patches. :-) Security holes are rarely in the kernel, and you can easily keep your applications up-to-date without rebooting. -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * of matter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 12:35:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3794115519 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00989; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906241931.MAA00989@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Wes Peters Cc: Julian Elischer , "Russell L. Carter" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:39:32 MDT." <37724324.E984AFD@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:31:00 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > I think it's been pretty well known since the beginning that FreeBSD > > SMP performance is nothing to cheer about. How does FreeBSD fare > > against NT or other systems on single processor systems? > > Sorry to follow up on my own message, but I noted today in PCWeek > their trip back to the benchmark lab includes ripping 3 CPUs and > 768M RAM out of the system, to benchmark how Linux and NT perform > on "lower-end" hardware. They also allowed the RedHat dudes to > switch to an Adaptec SCSI controller to talk to the RAID array. > How are we holding up under this "diminished" configuration? We don't have any numbers for that yet, and we cheat a little (using a U2W controller and U2W external RAID unit). -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 12:35:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C13C21541B for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:35:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01005; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:32:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906241932.MAA01005@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Tony Finch Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:56:07 BST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:32:31 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Wes Peters wrote: > > > >Sorry to follow up on my own message, but I noted today in PCWeek > >their trip back to the benchmark lab includes ripping 3 CPUs and > >768M RAM out of the system, to benchmark how Linux and NT perform > >on "lower-end" hardware. They also allowed the RedHat dudes to > >switch to an Adaptec SCSI controller to talk to the RAID array. > >How are we holding up under this "diminished" configuration? > > It's stupid to tune everything for performance except for the web > server -- they should be using Zeus, not Apache. The Zeus evaluation license prohibits its use for benchmarks, and the Zeus folks failed to respond to any of my attempts to communicate. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 12:37:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11AF1543D for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:37:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01020; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:34:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906241934.MAA01020@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dan Moschuk Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Beating system usage down In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:18:16 EDT." <19990624121816.A17448@trinsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:34:06 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just for those that have been following the benchmarking thread, this is exactly the same symptom set that FreeBSD demonstrates when loaded by WebBench. The gotcha here is, again, the giant kernel lock. > Greetings, > > A machine that I hold very close under my wing has been very contently > chugging along for the last few months with practically no idle processor. > However, I noticed that the CPUs are spinning a lot of cycles in the > system area. > > CPU states: 5.5% user, 0.0% nice, 88.9% system, 4.0% interrupt, 1.6% idle > > First, some background. > > The machine is a Dual P2-450 with 1GB of RAM. It runs apache, and currently > handles 90 hits a second, with each of those hits spawning various CGIs > (one per hit) that completes in under a second. > > My first theory was that the kernel was uselessly spinning in various record > locks via fcntl(). However, as a test I removed all file locking from the > various CGIs and noticed no change in the system usage. My second theory > was the overhead with the SMP code. So, I removed it from the kernel and > ran a single CPU box for a few minutes. The system usage went down to > around 60%, but the system was noticeably slower. > > Any ideas? > > > Regards, > > Dan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 12:40:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (unknown [206.127.79.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B83C15736 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:40:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA28518; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:39:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA07731; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:39:10 -0600 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:39:10 -0600 Message-Id: <199906241939.NAA07731@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Brian F. Feldman" Cc: Karl Denninger , Doug , Mark Newton , drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: References: <19990624125855.A8051@Denninger.Net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > We're adding some machines at work for (essentially) cgi > > > processing only. It was never considered to use anything less than 2 cpu > > > boxes, and the current round of testing is going so well that we're > > > seriously considering 4 cpu boxes because they are not that much more > > > expensive and our processing is highly CPU bound. I agree that redundancy > > > is a good thing, but at some point the increased network latency exceends > > > the point of diminishing returns for the redundancy factor. > > > > > > In short, increasing SMP efficiency should really be a priority > > > for N>2 systems. > > > > Agreed. But this is a BIG job, because to do that you have to solve the > > "one big kernel lock" problem and go to fine-grained locking. This is a > > non-trivial job. > > We don't need fine-grained locks. We would get good performance if we > could get (say) per-subsystem locks. In my neck of the woods (doing lots of multi-threaded stuff), that is the definition of 'fine-grained' locks, vs. 'coarse-grained' locks. What we have now is a big 'coarse-grained' lock. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 12:57:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1317214C2F for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:57:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id OAA08287; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:57:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990624145718.A8280@Denninger.Net> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:57:18 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Doug Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) References: <19990624125855.A8051@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 11:14:24AM -0700 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 11:14:24AM -0700, Doug wrote: > > > > That's the world I lived in (except that I used FreeBSD for the NFS > > servers as well!) and done properly it works EXTREMELY well. > > I'm not going to have that luxury, and I really believe that > NetApp and it's cousings are going to be THE point of access in the next > year or so. They work too well to pass up, and now that they are OEM'ing > the disk shelves they will be too cheap to justify rolling your own for > all but the most diehard platform advocates. The point I was making, Doug, is that FreeBSD as an NFS client works quite well in my experience, PROVIDED that you are (1) running a "good" code base, and (2) have things set up correctly. I don't argue with the Netapp people; they have a good product that does a good job. The major problme has been the disk cost for a long time; if they're fixing that, then the overall picture will change dramatically and in their favor, which is a good thing. However, that doesn't change the fact that FreeBSD makes quite a good NFS client IF you do things "right". Yes, there are issues. No, they're not impossible to solve. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 12:59:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B60A814C91 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:59:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id OAA08301; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:57:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990624145755.B8280@Denninger.Net> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:57:55 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: "Brian F. Feldman" Cc: Doug , Mark Newton , drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) References: <19990624125855.A8051@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian F. Feldman on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 02:33:10PM -0400 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 02:33:10PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:54:37AM -0700, Doug wrote: > > > We're adding some machines at work for (essentially) cgi > > > processing only. It was never considered to use anything less than 2 cpu > > > boxes, and the current round of testing is going so well that we're > > > seriously considering 4 cpu boxes because they are not that much more > > > expensive and our processing is highly CPU bound. I agree that redundancy > > > is a good thing, but at some point the increased network latency exceends > > > the point of diminishing returns for the redundancy factor. > > > > > > In short, increasing SMP efficiency should really be a priority > > > for N>2 systems. > > > > Agreed. But this is a BIG job, because to do that you have to solve the > > "one big kernel lock" problem and go to fine-grained locking. This is a > > non-trivial job. > > We don't need fine-grained locks. We would get good performance if we > could get (say) per-subsystem locks. That's still a non-trivial task. :-) -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 13:25:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18DB14F9A for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA04942; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:22:36 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Karl Denninger Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , Doug , Mark Newton , drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: <19990624145755.B8280@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 02:33:10PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:54:37AM -0700, Doug wrote: > > > > We're adding some machines at work for (essentially) cgi > > > > processing only. It was never considered to use anything less than 2 cpu > > > > boxes, and the current round of testing is going so well that we're > > > > seriously considering 4 cpu boxes because they are not that much more > > > > expensive and our processing is highly CPU bound. I agree that redundancy > > > > is a good thing, but at some point the increased network latency exceends > > > > the point of diminishing returns for the redundancy factor. > > > > > > > > In short, increasing SMP efficiency should really be a priority > > > > for N>2 systems. > > > > > > Agreed. But this is a BIG job, because to do that you have to solve the > > > "one big kernel lock" problem and go to fine-grained locking. This is a > > > non-trivial job. > > > > We don't need fine-grained locks. We would get good performance if we > > could get (say) per-subsystem locks. > > That's still a non-trivial task. :-) A simple start would be to explicitly put a macro or call in each syscall to push down the lock. That way people can move that macro farther and farther down in the syscall code path, hopefully removing it entirely in some cases. I think having the call at the beginning of each syscall would motivate people into doing that sort of work. "Hey, y'know getppid() is safe, i'll just take the lock out." "this function xxx() is safe until this point I can process a lot before actually needing this lock..." "y'know I just have a structure that's not accessable to any other calls that i'm going to fill in, i'll just lift the lock right here" "if I just do this something here, I really am re-entrant and safe.." Providing a simple api for spinlocks and mutexes would be very nice. If some of the FreeBSD gods (core) said something along the lines of we'd like to see the process table have XXX method of access and locking people will code it, the same way with the many other subsystems. Things like pmap and UFS and INET will be a royal pain to get SMP safe, however baby steps towards lifting the lock for simpler subsystems will lead the way. FreeBSD has the most intellegent people in the industry working together, all that is needed is a starting point. -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@rush.net|bright@wintelcom.net] systems administrator and programmer Win Telecom - http://www.wintelcom.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 13:30:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF242151BF; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:30:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from carey@roguewave.com) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id VAA02963; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by hub.FreeBSD.ORG, id smtpd002935; Thu Jun 24 21:34:15 1999 Received: by CVO1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:32:24 -0700 Message-ID: From: Woody Carey To: "'Doug White'" , Woody Carey Cc: "'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: CDROM drive doesn't probe if no CD present [Was:cannot mount cd indicates bad ide cd drive - replace?] Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:32:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Re: what brand/model is it? US Drives 40x Model:USDRIVES 24DT > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug White [mailto:dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 12:45 PM > To: Woody Carey > Cc: 'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: RE: CDROM drive doesn't probe if no CD present [Was:cannot > mount cd indicates bad ide cd drive - replace?] > > > I'm lofting this up on -hackers to get the attention of the ATAPI CD > driver programmer -- Soren, you still around? Take a look at this. > > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Woody Carey wrote: > > > Ok, here is some more information: > > > > Here is the behavior when there is no cd in the drive at > bootup [reboot, > > actually] > > ^M^[[Kmyname# mount /cdrom > > cd9660: Input/output error > > myname# dmesg > > [...] > > > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, > accel, dma, iordy > > acd0: drive speed 0 - 4125KB/sec, 128KB cache > > acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA > > acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels > > acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray > > acd0: Medium: no/blank disc inside, unlocked > > > and here is the dmesg output and mount output with a cd in > the drive at > > boot: > > > > myname# dmesg > [...] > > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, > accel, dma, iordy > > acd0: drive speed 4125KB/sec, 128KB cache > > acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA > > acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels > > acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray > > acd0: Medium: CD-ROM 120mm data disc loaded, unlocked > > > myname# mount /cdrom > > > > There was some success message on the console after this mount > > indicating success. > > It did not appear in this script output, obviously. > > Bizarre. That may be a driver bug or your drive is getting into an > inconsistent state if it doesn't boot with a CD present. > > What brand/model of CD drive is it? > > Doug White > Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve > http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | www.freebsd.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 13:59:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55D515150 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:59:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (phoenix.cs.rpi.edu [128.113.96.153]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA68044; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906242059.QAA68044@cs.rpi.edu> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Karl Denninger , "Brian F. Feldman" , Doug , Mark Newton , drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: Message from Alfred Perlstein of "Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:22:36 CDT." Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:59:07 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > A simple start would be to explicitly put a macro or call in each > syscall to push down the lock. That way people can move that > macro farther and farther down in the syscall code path, hopefully > removing it entirely in some cases. I think having the call at > the beginning of each syscall would motivate people into doing that > sort of work. > > "Hey, y'know getppid() is safe, i'll just take the lock out." > "this function xxx() is safe until this point I can process a lot > before actually needing this lock..." > "y'know I just have a structure that's not accessable to any other calls > that i'm going to fill in, i'll just lift the lock right here" > "if I just do this something here, I really am re-entrant and safe.." > > Providing a simple api for spinlocks and mutexes would be very nice. > > If some of the FreeBSD gods (core) said something along the lines > of we'd like to see the process table have XXX method of access > and locking people will code it, the same way with the many other > subsystems. > > Things like pmap and UFS and INET will be a royal pain to get > SMP safe, however baby steps towards lifting the lock for > simpler subsystems will lead the way. FreeBSD has the > most intellegent people in the industry working together, > all that is needed is a starting point. I think mutex is the way to go. I am 100% for it, and I think now that this problem is getting a good deal of light we should start to do something about it. One of the problems with locks that doesn't seem to have been mentioned (although I am sure many have thought it) is deadlocks. You get A waiting for B and b with A. With mutexi (plural?) you would lock just the resource that you are curently working on, and you would be guaranteed to release it (if the programmers do it right, of course ;). The advantage is with Mutex is that you don't need to be as omnipotent to use it. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 14:20:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43209152A6 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:20:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13148; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:20:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Karl Denninger , Doug , Mark Newton , drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > > A simple start would be to explicitly put a macro or call in each > syscall to push down the lock. That way people can move that > macro farther and farther down in the syscall code path, hopefully > removing it entirely in some cases. I think having the call at > the beginning of each syscall would motivate people into doing that > sort of work. > > "Hey, y'know getppid() is safe, i'll just take the lock out." > "this function xxx() is safe until this point I can process a lot > before actually needing this lock..." > "y'know I just have a structure that's not accessable to any other calls > that i'm going to fill in, i'll just lift the lock right here" > "if I just do this something here, I really am re-entrant and safe.." > > Providing a simple api for spinlocks and mutexes would be very nice. > Something along the lines of how spl()s work? And mutex allocation like what we do with malloc types, maybe? > If some of the FreeBSD gods (core) said something along the lines > of we'd like to see the process table have XXX method of access > and locking people will code it, the same way with the many other > subsystems. > > Things like pmap and UFS and INET will be a royal pain to get > SMP safe, however baby steps towards lifting the lock for > simpler subsystems will lead the way. FreeBSD has the > most intellegent people in the industry working together, > all that is needed is a starting point. > > -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@rush.net|bright@wintelcom.net] > systems administrator and programmer > Win Telecom - http://www.wintelcom.net/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 15: 3:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8EDA14F13 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24456 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:03:49 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:02:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: System unique identifier..... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was talking about this on linux-kernel, but it also applies to *BSD... What're folks' motions of a settable system unique identifier, available prior to mountroot? This identifier has to be 64 bits or better and must be persistent across reboots. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 15:47: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56FB15076 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:47:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from justin@rhapture.apple.com) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA41064 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:47:07 -0700 Received: from scv1.apple.com (scv1.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (mailgate1.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:46:53 -0700 Received: from rhapture.apple.com (rhapture.apple.com [17.202.40.59]) by scv1.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA34242; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:46:52 -0700 Received: by rhapture.apple.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA00847; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906242246.PAA00847@rhapture.apple.com> To: mjacob@feral.com Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:46:40 -0700 From: "Justin C. Walker" Reply-To: justin@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.105.dev) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Matthew Jacob > Date: 1999-06-24 15:03:56 -0700 > To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: System unique identifier..... > Delivered-to: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I was talking about this on linux-kernel, but it also applies to *BSD... > > What're folks' motions of a settable system unique identifier, available > prior to mountroot? This identifier has to be 64 bits or better and must > be persistent across reboots. This could start a long discussion :-}. Some systems just take the IEEE MAC address from the motherboard, or that of the first interface it finds. Others use some algorithmic variation on that value, but it generally boils down to the same thing. For newer Intel boxes, you could just use the CPU chip... well, never mind. The main issue, I think, is that of persistence. How persistent do you want it? I'd bet that no matter what source you use, there's always the problem of "it broke; I had to replace it; now what?". Kind of like your grandfather's axe, which has had six handles and two blades over its lifetime, but it's still your grandfather's axe. Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Manager, CoreOS Networking | When crypto is outlawed, Apple Computer, Inc. | Only outlaws will have crypto. 2 Infinite Loop | Cupertino, CA 95014 | *-------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 16: 0: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5799814CA6 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:00:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24563; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:00:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:58:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: "Justin C. Walker" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: <199906242246.PAA00847@rhapture.apple.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Some systems just take the IEEE MAC address from the motherboard, or > that of the first interface it finds. Others use some algorithmic > variation on that value, but it generally boils down to the same > thing. For newer Intel boxes, you could just use the CPU chip... > well, never mind. Yes. The Solaris drivers use the 'localetheraddr' function, or's in 1<<60 and then HBA instance # << 48 to make a NAA_IEEE port identifier. > > The main issue, I think, is that of persistence. How persistent do > you want it? I'd bet that no matter what source you use, there's > always the problem of "it broke; I had to replace it; now what?". > Kind of like your grandfather's axe, which has had six handles and > two blades over its lifetime, but it's still your grandfather's axe. > I want it to persist until it's changed. Change doesn't mean a reboot. The practical side of this problem, which is a relatively trivial problem, is to supply a consistent node WWN for fibre channel adapters that don't have an assigned WWN in NVRAM. This only needs to be persistent across reboots when I finish implementing the target mode code- a WWN identifying a system as a 'device' needs to persist until told to change. There's all sorts of good stuff for generating 128 UUIDs. That has multiple uses. I want it to be availble to the kernel, and that prior to reboot. It strikes me that some userland generation of UUID could be used to seed a particular kernel- which could be changed via sysctl as needed (w/o rebooting). I'm trying to think of the practical and least objectionable semantics of how to support that sooner rather than later. The Linux folks (mostly Ted) helped me clarify some thinking about this so that the basic original source of the seeded WWN doesn't have to come from first principles in hardware that can be read prior to mounting root. But where the linux folks aren't really hipped on is a good architecturally clean place to store the seed. It'd be nice if we thought of this for FreeBSD. -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 16:53:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D87FB14D50 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:53:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-253.s62.as3.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.253]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id TAA06995; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906242353.TAA06995@smtp4.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <48963.930215163@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:53:08 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Sheldon Hearn Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, David Malone , John Baldwin , Doug Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24-Jun-99 Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:53:32 MST, Doug wrote: > >> As long as you acknowledge that in this case, "You can't have it" is a >> design decision, and not everyone agrees with your concept of the design. >> Personally I don't care enough about it to write the patch, but that won't >> stop me from registering an objection since you seem to be assuming that >> silence == assent. > > You're right. If I make my intentions publically known and nobody > objects, I assume public agreement. So I acknowledge that we're involved > in design decisions here. > >> You need to start thinking of things in terms of the much more common >> case, the casual user who will be going from say, 3.0-Release to >> 3.3-Release without reading any of the documentation. > > You're making assumptions about what I'm trying to achieve. I'm quite > sensitive to upgrade issues. > >> Why should this user have to either go out of his way to fix something >> that wasn't broken, or find a critical service disabled when he >> reboots just because no one could be bothered to make the new >> interface compatible? > > Okay, this is what makes sense. :-) > > I do agree that it should be as easy as possible to upgrade from > 3.2-RELEASE to 3.3-RELEASE. What you need to see is that such an upgrade > _will_ involve changing some things, which is why we offer people > release notes. What we're discussing (and have up until now disagreed > on) is how much has to change. > > Since none of the people who've suggested per-case exclusion options > for wrapping have come up with diffs, it's something I'll have to think > about. If I can come up with something backward compatible without > rupturing a testicle, I'll do so. > > Watch this space for details. :-) Ok. since you asked: Here's one possibility, it adds a a wrap/nowrap field that goes beside the wait/nowait field, so you would have: ftp stream tcp nowait wrap root /usr/libexec/ftpd ftpd -l as an example of ftp being wrapped. here's the patch to inetd.c (against -stable, which is all I have at the moment): Index: inetd.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/usr.sbin/inetd/inetd.c,v retrieving revision 1.46.2.2 diff -u -r1.46.2.2 inetd.c --- inetd.c 1999/05/12 07:02:02 1.46.2.2 +++ inetd.c 1999/06/24 23:36:24 @@ -73,6 +73,7 @@ * socket type stream/dgram/raw/rdm/seqpacket * protocol must be in /etc/protocols * wait/nowait single-threaded/multi-threaded + * wrap/nowrap wrapped or not * user user to run daemon as * server program full path name * server program arguments maximum of MAXARGS (20) @@ -97,6 +98,7 @@ * socket type stream/dgram/raw/rdm/seqpacket * protocol must be in /etc/protocols * wait/nowait single-threaded/multi-threaded + * wrap/nowrap wrapped or not * user user to run daemon as * server program full path name * server program arguments maximum of MAXARGS @@ -215,6 +217,9 @@ u_char se_type; /* type: normal, mux, or mux+ */ u_char se_checked; /* looked at during merge */ u_char se_accept; /* i.e., wait/nowait mode */ +#ifdef LIBWRAP_INTERNAL + u_char se_wrap; /* wrap/nowrap mode */ +#endif u_char se_rpc; /* ==1 if RPC service */ int se_rpc_prog; /* RPC program number */ u_int se_rpc_lowvers; /* RPC low version */ @@ -621,6 +626,8 @@ #ifdef LIBWRAP #ifndef LIBWRAP_INTERNAL if (sep->se_bi == 0) +#else + if (sep->se_wrap) #endif if (sep->se_accept && sep->se_socktype == SOCK_STREAM) { @@ -905,6 +912,9 @@ } } sep->se_accept = new->se_accept; +#ifdef LIBWRAP_INTERNAL + sep->se_wrap = new->se_wrap; +#endif SWAP(sep->se_user, new->se_user); SWAP(sep->se_group, new->se_group); #ifdef LOGIN_CAP @@ -1377,6 +1387,19 @@ goto more; } } +#ifdef LIBWRAP_INTERNAL + arg = sskip(&cp); + if (!strncmp(arg, "wrap", 4)) + sep->se_wrap = 1; + else if (!strncmp(arg, "nowrap", 6)) + sep->se_wrap = 0; + else { + syslog(LOG_ERR, + "%s: bad wrap/nowrap for services %s", + CONFIG, sep->se_service); + goto more; + } +#endif sep->se_user = newstr(sskip(&cp)); #ifdef LOGIN_CAP if ((s = strrchr(sep->se_user, '/')) != NULL) { I've tested this on my -stable box and it worked. My world is from almost a month ago though.. I've been having problems cvsup'ing, so I don't have any more recent -stable sources, sorry. If you don't like the wrap/nowrap field, then I'll try adn think up another way to do this (maybe wait/nowait/wait-wrap/nowait-wrap ?), as I realize that this would make older inetd.conf files out of date. > Cia, > Sheldon. --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 17:22:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6970B152DB for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:22:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA43679; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:21:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: "David E. Cross" Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Karl Denninger , "Brian F. Feldman" , Doug , Mark Newton , drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: <199906242059.QAA68044@cs.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, David E. Cross wrote: > I think mutex is the way to go. I am 100% for it, and I think now that this > problem is getting a good deal of light we should start to do something about > it. > > One of the problems with locks that doesn't seem to have been mentioned > (although I am sure many have thought it) is deadlocks. You get A waiting > for B and b with A. With mutexi (plural?) you would lock just the resource > that you are curently working on, and you would be guaranteed to release it > (if the programmers do it right, of course ;). The advantage is with Mutex > is that you don't need to be as omnipotent to use it. Did you forget the fact that in order to remove a giant lock set up, so that you go one step, or multiple steps, below that, the locks below the giant lock must ALL be there, no mistakes or omissions allowed. It's well worth doing, but it's not a deal like adding just one lock, no sir! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic and jaunt, both FreeBSD-current. (301) 220-2114 | ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 17:55:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BB614EA7 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:55:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA02767; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:57:17 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: "David E. Cross" Cc: Karl Denninger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Brian F. Feldman" Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: <199906242059.QAA68044@cs.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, David E. Cross wrote: > > A simple start would be to explicitly put a macro or call in each > > syscall to push down the lock. That way people can move that > > macro farther and farther down in the syscall code path, hopefully > > removing it entirely in some cases. I think having the call at > > the beginning of each syscall would motivate people into doing that > > sort of work. > > > > "Hey, y'know getppid() is safe, i'll just take the lock out." > > "this function xxx() is safe until this point I can process a lot > > before actually needing this lock..." > > "y'know I just have a structure that's not accessable to any other calls > > that i'm going to fill in, i'll just lift the lock right here" > > "if I just do this something here, I really am re-entrant and safe.." > > > > Providing a simple api for spinlocks and mutexes would be very nice. > > > > If some of the FreeBSD gods (core) said something along the lines > > of we'd like to see the process table have XXX method of access > > and locking people will code it, the same way with the many other > > subsystems. > > > > Things like pmap and UFS and INET will be a royal pain to get > > SMP safe, however baby steps towards lifting the lock for > > simpler subsystems will lead the way. FreeBSD has the > > most intellegent people in the industry working together, > > all that is needed is a starting point. > > I think mutex is the way to go. I am 100% for it, and I think now that this > problem is getting a good deal of light we should start to do something about > it. > > One of the problems with locks that doesn't seem to have been mentioned > (although I am sure many have thought it) is deadlocks. You get A waiting > for B and b with A. With mutexi (plural?) you would lock just the resource > that you are curently working on, and you would be guaranteed to release it > (if the programmers do it right, of course ;). The advantage is with Mutex > is that you don't need to be as omnipotent to use it. Exactly, there are complex problems to deal with with locking certain structures even in the UP model (when to raise spl() and such) My point is that if someone with the experiance defined protocols for locking each subsystem we definetly have enough people to implement it eventually. If the stupbs for this were in place it would motivate people to work on it. -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@rush.net|bright@wintelcom.net] systems administrator and programmer Win Telecom - http://www.wintelcom.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 18:12:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7214C15179 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:12:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA14602; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:14:19 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Brian F. Feldman" Cc: Karl Denninger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > A simple start would be to explicitly put a macro or call in each > > syscall to push down the lock. That way people can move that > > macro farther and farther down in the syscall code path, hopefully > > removing it entirely in some cases. I think having the call at > > the beginning of each syscall would motivate people into doing that > > sort of work. > > > > "Hey, y'know getppid() is safe, i'll just take the lock out." > > "this function xxx() is safe until this point I can process a lot > > before actually needing this lock..." > > "y'know I just have a structure that's not accessable to any other calls > > that i'm going to fill in, i'll just lift the lock right here" > > "if I just do this something here, I really am re-entrant and safe.." > > > > Providing a simple api for spinlocks and mutexes would be very nice. > > > > Something along the lines of how spl()s work? And mutex allocation like what > we do with malloc types, maybe? I'm not sure what you mean by the refernce to malloc types, I just thought something along the lines of mutex_t with an API for trying, allocating, freeing and initializing them. Also, some really interesting things could be done via per-CPU resource pools to lower the amount of contention on objects. Pardon the niaveness of this idea, but things like per-CPU malloc areas and each CPU haveing a queue for CPUs if memory is free'd by a processor that down't "own" it. Things like someone signalling another processor if one of its free queues becomes full, or if a CPU finds its pool exhausted. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 18:26: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pallas.veritas.com (pallas.veritas.com [204.177.156.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5551315365 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:25:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Received: from megami.veritas.com (megami.veritas.com [192.203.46.101]) by pallas.veritas.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA08748; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sigma.veritas.com([192.203.46.125]) (1813 bytes) by megami.veritas.com via sendmail with P:esmtp/R:smart_host/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:25:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #3 built 1999-Jan-25) Received: from sigma (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sigma.veritas.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA27855; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:25:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Message-Id: <199906250125.SAA27855@sigma.veritas.com> From: Aaron Smith To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , Karl Denninger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: synch primitives (was Re: Microsoft performance) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:14:19 CDT." Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:25:43 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:14:19 CDT, Alfred Perlstein writes: >I'm not sure what you mean by the refernce to malloc types, I just >thought something along the lines of mutex_t with an API >for trying, allocating, freeing and initializing them. i'd really like to implement some of the basic solaris primitives: mutex, cv (condition variable), sema p/v. i sent a message to the smp list on this at one point but didn't get much of a response other than cranky noises about "super fine-grained locking isn't worth it". what i'd like to see is the groundwork laid for finER locking so that we can gradually break up the points of contention. mutex/cv/sema are intuitive and taught in every OS course; i don't feel "simple_lock" or "lockmgr" are desirable or adequate. i'm willing to work on it, but i can't get to it for at least a couple of months, so i'm hoping someone else wants to work on it too. aaron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 18:26:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52C301557B for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:26:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA17201; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:26:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Karl Denninger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > > > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > > A simple start would be to explicitly put a macro or call in each > > > syscall to push down the lock. That way people can move that > > > macro farther and farther down in the syscall code path, hopefully > > > removing it entirely in some cases. I think having the call at > > > the beginning of each syscall would motivate people into doing that > > > sort of work. > > > > > > "Hey, y'know getppid() is safe, i'll just take the lock out." > > > "this function xxx() is safe until this point I can process a lot > > > before actually needing this lock..." > > > "y'know I just have a structure that's not accessable to any other calls > > > that i'm going to fill in, i'll just lift the lock right here" > > > "if I just do this something here, I really am re-entrant and safe.." > > > > > > Providing a simple api for spinlocks and mutexes would be very nice. > > > > > > > Something along the lines of how spl()s work? And mutex allocation like what > > we do with malloc types, maybe? > > I'm not sure what you mean by the refernce to malloc types, I just > thought something along the lines of mutex_t with an API > for trying, allocating, freeing and initializing them. I meant something like an extensible set of mutex "groups", like our kernel malloc uses. New mutex types would be added. Instead of per- function mutexes, a single mutex "type" could be used for multiple functions that are the same in usage of sensitive resources. Just an idea... > > Also, some really interesting things could be done via per-CPU > resource pools to lower the amount of contention on objects. > > Pardon the niaveness of this idea, but things like per-CPU > malloc areas and each CPU haveing a queue for CPUs if > memory is free'd by a processor that down't "own" it. > Things like someone signalling another processor if one of its > free queues becomes full, or if a CPU finds its pool exhausted. > > -Alfred > > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 18:39:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C178F14CA6 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:39:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 10082 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 01:39:11 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 01:39:11 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:39:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anybody using the Efficient Networks ATM PCI adapter? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I see it's supported, but I'm curious if anybody is using it. If so, I'd like to ask a few questions off-line of somebody... Thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 18:40:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C5514CA6 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:40:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id LAA04278; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:10:50 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA18915; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:10:49 +0930 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:10:49 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg Cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Pardon the niaveness of this idea, but things like per-CPU > malloc areas and each CPU haveing a queue for CPUs if > memory is free'd by a processor that down't "own" it. > Things like someone signalling another processor if one of its > free queues becomes full, or if a CPU finds its pool exhausted. This sounds a lot like local resource management in a distributed locking system (the local lock manager obtains covering locks on a pool of resources and can manage those locally, but can relinquish the locks to another lock manager when requested if it is holding them but not actually using them). Concurrency theory interests me, but I don't have the resources (heh, heh) to be useful at the moment. Kris > > > > -Alfred > > > > > > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ > green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ > FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | > http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > ----- "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 21:47:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613E314E3E for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:47:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA24626; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:49:39 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Kris Kennaway Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Pardon the niaveness of this idea, but things like per-CPU > > malloc areas and each CPU haveing a queue for CPUs if > > memory is free'd by a processor that down't "own" it. > > Things like someone signalling another processor if one of its > > free queues becomes full, or if a CPU finds its pool exhausted. > > This sounds a lot like local resource management in a distributed locking > system (the local lock manager obtains covering locks on a pool of resources > and can manage those locally, but can relinquish the locks to another lock > manager when requested if it is holding them but not actually using them). > > Concurrency theory interests me, but I don't have the resources (heh, heh) to > be useful at the moment. Theoretically you can simulate an SMP enviorment by removing the "run to completion" way that the kernel works, basically in UP while the kernel is working, it can't be interupted. By removing that restriction and at the same time putting up boundries on all syscalls to push that down you can pretty much simulate the effect of SMP. The farther you push the barriers down in the codepaths the better things get, with the eventual hope of removing them almost entirely. Right now most kernel utility functions would also need to grab the status of the lock and push it down then restore it apon return. This way malloc and friends can be considered "safe". btw, am I using the word "codepath" correctly? is it even a word? :) -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@rush.net|bright@wintelcom.net] systems administrator and programmer Win Telecom - http://www.wintelcom.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 22:45:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F8215105 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:45:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA20374; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906250545.WAA20374@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: mjacob@feral.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:45:25 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Matthew Jacob wrote: > I was talking about this on linux-kernel, but it also applies to *BSD... > > What're folks' motions of a settable system unique identifier, available > prior to mountroot? This identifier has to be 64 bits or better and must > be persistent across reboots. ...to be used for...? -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 22:57:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BEDD14C07 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:57:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA08976; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:56:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Chuck Robey Cc: "David E. Cross" , Alfred Perlstein , Karl Denninger , "Brian F. Feldman" , Doug , Mark Newton , drosih@rpi.edu, grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alan Cox has just started passing around some code that starts on the breakdown of the GKL I suggest that all intersted parties go to the SMP list if they wish to take part in this action. On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, David E. Cross wrote: > > > I think mutex is the way to go. I am 100% for it, and I think now that this > > problem is getting a good deal of light we should start to do something about > > it. > > > > One of the problems with locks that doesn't seem to have been mentioned > > (although I am sure many have thought it) is deadlocks. You get A waiting > > for B and b with A. With mutexi (plural?) you would lock just the resource > > that you are curently working on, and you would be guaranteed to release it > > (if the programmers do it right, of course ;). The advantage is with Mutex > > is that you don't need to be as omnipotent to use it. > > Did you forget the fact that in order to remove a giant lock set up, so > that you go one step, or multiple steps, below that, the locks below the > giant lock must ALL be there, no mistakes or omissions allowed. > > It's well worth doing, but it's not a deal like adding just one lock, no > sir! > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic and jaunt, both FreeBSD-current. > (301) 220-2114 | > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 23:42:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C59914BE0 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:42:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25488; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:43:04 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:41:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Jason Thorpe Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: <199906250545.WAA20374@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:02:25 -0700 (PDT) > Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > I was talking about this on linux-kernel, but it also applies to *BSD... > > > > What're folks' motions of a settable system unique identifier, available > > prior to mountroot? This identifier has to be 64 bits or better and must > > be persistent across reboots. > > ...to be used for...? > Specifically in this case a Node WWN for fibre channel fabrics that does not depend upon an assigned WWN in any particular Fibre Channel card (multipathing might make it desirable to have a synthetic Node WWN that can also be passed to partner systems in a failover configuration). More generally a system unique identifier available early (pre mountroot) could be useful for a number of things. Why're you asking? -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 24 23:47:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc1.sfba.home.com (ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.0.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3220114BE0 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:47:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma@c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com) Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com ([24.0.69.165]) by mail.rdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990625064732.USNP8807.mail.rdc1.sfba.home.com@c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com>; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:47:32 -0700 Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07367; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:47:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:47:32 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SMP locking (Was Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)) Message-ID: <19990624234732.A7348@home.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Julian Elischer on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:56:07PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:56:07PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: > Alan Cox has just started passing around some code that starts on the > breakdown of the GKL > > I suggest that all intersted parties go to the SMP list > if they wish to take part in this action. You mean freebsd-smp@freebsd.org ? I've been reading the list for a while, but haven't seen any code there. Am I missing something ? -Arun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 0: 1:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2D014BE0 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:01:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA21253; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906250701.AAA21253@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: mjacob@feral.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:01:25 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Matthew Jacob wrote: > More generally a system unique identifier available early (pre mountroot) > could be useful for a number of things. Why're you asking? The intended usage: (1) Could influence where it is stored. (2) Might be utterly useless (e.g. for software licensing, especially when you have the source for the OS, and can thus make it anything you want with a simple kernel hack...) -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 0:13:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56E7B155DA for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA10563; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:13:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Arun Sharma Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP locking (Was Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)) In-Reply-To: <19990624234732.A7348@home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Arun Sharma wrote: > You mean freebsd-smp@freebsd.org ? I've been reading the list for a while, > but haven't seen any code there. Am I missing something ? I've just redirected some stuff there, and there's some stuff that will be sent there shortly. > > -Arun > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 0:18:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freesbee.t.dk (freesbee.t.dk [193.162.159.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CD6BC14DCC for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:18:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesper@freesbee.t.dk) Received: (qmail 16316 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Jun 1999 07:18:53 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:18:53 +0200 From: Jesper Skriver To: Jaye Mathisen Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anybody using the Efficient Networks ATM PCI adapter? Message-ID: <19990625091853.B16045@skriver.dk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jaye Mathisen on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 06:39:07PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 06:39:07PM -0700, Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > I see it's supported, but I'm curious if anybody is using it. If so, I'd > like to ask a few questions off-line of somebody... Soren S. Jorvang is working on a NetBSD driver for the ATM25 version ... he claims it should be relative easy to bring it over to FreeBSD when it's ready. /Jesper -- Jesper Skriver (JS4261-RIPE), Network manager Tele Danmark DataNet, IP section (AS3292) One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 0:32:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gnyf.t.dk (gnyf.t.dk [193.163.159.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2955150BC for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:31:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@gnyf.t.dk) Received: (from soren@localhost) by gnyf.t.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA19593; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:31:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:31:23 +0200 From: "Soren S. Jorvang" To: Jesper Skriver Cc: Jaye Mathisen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, John.C.Hayward@wheaton.edu Subject: Re: Anybody using the Efficient Networks ATM PCI adapter? Message-ID: <19990625093123.B19518@gnyf.t.dk> References: <19990625091853.B16045@skriver.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3us In-Reply-To: <19990625091853.B16045@skriver.dk>; from Jesper Skriver on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 09:18:53AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 09:18:53AM +0200, Jesper Skriver wrote: > On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 06:39:07PM -0700, Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > > > I see it's supported, but I'm curious if anybody is using it. If so, I'd > > like to ask a few questions off-line of somebody... > > Soren S. Jorvang is working on a NetBSD driver for the > ATM25 version ... he claims it should be relative easy to bring it over > to FreeBSD when it's ready. [I suspect Jaye was asking about the ENI-155, but someone might be interested in this.] Note that I am not the author of this driver. John C. Hayward is. http://www.whitebarn.com/~bob/atm/ gives a little overview (though not quite up to date). There is also a newer driver at ftp://ftp.wheaton.edu/pub/ATM/lanai.tgz . Some FreeBSD porting work has already been done, I think, but I am not sure how far it is along. -- Soren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 0:40: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.uninet.ee (ns.uninet.ee [194.204.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC9C14D33; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:39:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taavi@uninet.ee) Received: from localhost (taavi@localhost) by ns.uninet.ee (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA20053; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:38:53 +0300 (EEST) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:38:53 +0300 (EEST) From: Taavi Talvik To: freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Driver for Efficient Networks SpeadStream 3010 ATM-25 NIC Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello ! Driver for Efficient Networks lanai based NIC is available at ftp://ftp.uninet.ee/pub/ATM/. This is just brute force port of original NetBSD driver written by John.C.Hayward@wheaton.edu. Jeremie Kass is working on OpenBSD port. Driver should be reviewed (cleaned up) by someone more knowledgable on FreeBSD internals and tested, as I do not have 3010 and have only 3020 adapter. Hopefully i have not broken 3010 support. Efficient SpeadStream 3020 contains also Analog Devices AD20msp910 ADSL physical layer and should run in different mode than pure ATM card. I have ongoing discussions with Efficient people to get documentation and dsp code for physical layer. There are also differences in onboard SEEPROM. Other relevant links for lanai based cards are: http://www.infolaunch.com/ATM/ - original driver http://www.whitebarn.com/~bob/atm/ - lanai docs best regards, taavi ----------------------------------------------------------- Taavi Talvik | Internet: taavi@uninet.ee Unineti Andmeside AS | phone: +372 6405150 Ravala pst. 10-412 | fax: +372 6405151 EE0001, Tallinn, Estonia | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 1:15:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD12D15579 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:15:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xR8L-000036-00; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:14:49 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, David Malone , John Baldwin , Doug Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:53:08 -0400." <199906242353.TAA06995@smtp4.erols.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:14:48 +0200 Message-ID: <191.930298488@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:53:08 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > Here's one possibility, it adds a a wrap/nowrap field that goes beside the > wait/nowait field, so you would have: > > ftp stream tcp nowait wrap root /usr/libexec/ftpd ftpd -l hi John, I think I prefer the suggestion I saw from someone else, which would allow ftp stream tcp nowait/10/10/wrap root ... This can be done in such a way as to be backward compatible. Looks like something for the week-end, if I can convince my wife that it's a good idea. :-) Later, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 1:35:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E046A14E56 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:34:06 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id NHL6LXK9; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:26:09 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10xRRx-000ChO-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:35:05 +0100 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:35:05 +0100 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Cyclic stopping CVS development Message-Id: <19990625093503.A48803@palmerharvey.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This may have some bearing on FreeBSD... http://www.lwn.net/daily/cyclic.html -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator "Always think very hard before messing with TCP. And then don't." -- MC -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 3: 3:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nwcst293.netaddress.usa.net (nwcst293.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B0A421561D for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:03:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 29602 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Jun 1999 10:08:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19990625100819.29601.qmail@nwcst293.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.38 by nwcst293 via web-mailer(M3.2.0.17) on Fri Jun 25 10:08:19 GMT 1999 Date: 25 Jun 99 03:08:19 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola Subject: Re: [ispell(1) is for WIMPs (was Re: vi(1) is for whimps)] Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > Bill Fumerola wrote: > > = > > On 22 Jun 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: > > = > > > vi(1) is for whimps > > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html > > = > > As long as you're critiquing people for what you called (paraphrased)= "a > > smiley that made you sound insincere", I guess I'll point out that > > the word is "wimps". > = > If you're going to stand on a soap box and preach, you should = > probably make sure the lables on the soap box aren't contradicting > your message. > = So they misspelt it in the dictonary, what am I supposed to do? ;-) --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 3:22:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CFAF15298 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:22:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xT8D-0001Y2-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:22:49 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: REQ: Better etiquette next week Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:22:49 +0200 Message-ID: <5953.930306169@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I find myself looking back at some of the ridiculous mail that found its way into freebsd-hackers (instead of freebsd-chat or /dev/null) this week and I wonder how on earth people without my li'l dethread script survive. No, NO! Don't tell me, publically or privately, I don't care. I'd like to encourage everyone on the list to do his or her best next week to try to adhere to the norms of mailing list etiquette that make mailing list membership bearable. Pretty please, with cherries and syrup on top. TIA Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 3:34:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gera.nix.nns.ru (ns.nns.ru [194.135.102.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69C7154E7 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:34:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dflit@nns.ru) Received: (from dflit@localhost) by gera.nix.nns.ru (8.9.1a/8.7.3) id OAA26068 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:34:48 +0400 (MSD) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: Organization: National Electronic Library Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:34:48 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.45 FreeBSD] From: Dmitry Flitmann Reply-To: dflit@nns.ru Error-to: dflit@nns.ru Subject: Xeon box hanging, top shows "FFS_node". FFS problem? Lines: 31 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there! We've got a "fast" computer for our database (Intel SC450NX, 2xXeon/500MHz, 1G RAM, SymBios U2W SCSI onboard, 2xPCI, 3x18G Seagate Cheetah, OS - FreeBSD 3.2-R). At first, we had to patch NCR driver - then it worked fine for some time. When we started to load our new server with data (1 process creating about 50 small files in a second), a strange effect appears - system ~hangs, it does not create any new processes anymore. When we have "top" running at that moment, we can see that main process (which creates files) has state "FFS_node". Our first idea was that the problem is in a patched ncr driver, so we have replaced SymBios with Adaptec 2940U2W, but effect persists. CPU load is not very high, there are not a lot of processes, and no one keeps a lot of files open simultaneously. Is it a problem in FFS implementation? Or, maybe, some kernel option can help? sorry for poor English. Sincerely, Dmitry Flitman National News Service/National Electronic Library. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 3:52:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.zhongxing.com (unknown [202.103.147.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4AC051563F for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:52:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from miaobo@mail.zhongxing.com) Received: by mail.zhongxing.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.2 (600.1 3-26-1998)) id 4825679C.003BB860 ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:52:18 +0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ZTE_LTD From: miaobo@mail.zhongxing.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <4825679B.00396FA6.00@mail.zhongxing.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:52:50 +0800 Subject: How to debug message passing based multiprogramming program? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Hackers! I am not a professional programmer as you are or I know much about debug skills. But here I have a large multiprogramming program that I need to hack into. The program can be divided into several functional modules and a "kernel" module which handles all messages needed for every functinal module. When one functinal module need to communicate with other modules, it first send messages(with or without format) to "kernel" and then "kerenl" will handle the message, deliver it to its destination. The "kernel" also maintain a message queue for simultaneously coming messages. The "kernel" is built up on a real time scheduled multi-tasking OS with system calls support. It is trasparent to the functional modules. Now the problem is, I need to test all functional modules to see if they can process messages deserved to them correctly. What can I do? I can't trace the activities of them because they only be executed when the message comes and "kernel" call them. This mechanism is very different as of the IPC operation on UNIX. Can you give some advice? I am sorry this may not the right place for ask my question but I don't know better ones. Thanks for reading this. miaobo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 4:10:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.pangeatech.com (pangeatech-151.pangeatech.primenet.com [207.218.87.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB76B1569C for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:10:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkn33@pangeatech.com) Received: from [207.218.93.158] by mail.pangeatech.com (NTMail 4.30.0010/NU8172.00.ea3d9017) with ESMTP id vcmsaaaa for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:06:52 -0700 Message-ID: <377363E9.41C67EA6@pangeatech.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:11:37 -0700 From: Janie X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: REQ: Better etiquette next week References: <5953.930306169@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hello all ~ I never posted to this list - maybe once, but I learned. I follow threads of brilliant minds at work and I read - and I am amazed by creative and complex issues which are resolved by a group of geeky greats. So - before I begin to drag this out - I wanted to share in agreement with Mr. Hearn about the unrelated posts to this list. I use this list as a learning tool. thanX Janie Dykes - Share your knowledge....it makes you smarter. Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > I find myself looking back at some of the ridiculous mail that found its > way into freebsd-hackers (instead of freebsd-chat or /dev/null) this > week and I wonder how on earth people without my li'l dethread script > survive. No, NO! Don't tell me, publically or privately, I don't care. > > I'd like to encourage everyone on the list to do his or her best next > week to try to adhere to the norms of mailing list etiquette that make > mailing list membership bearable. > > Pretty please, with cherries and syrup on top. > > TIA > Sheldon. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 5:46:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pallas.veritas.com (pallas.veritas.com [204.177.156.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEDEA14C8D for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:46:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Received: from megami.veritas.com (megami.veritas.com [192.203.46.101]) by pallas.veritas.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA15589; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sigma.veritas.com([192.203.46.125]) (1719 bytes) by megami.veritas.com via sendmail with P:esmtp/R:smart_host/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:44:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #3 built 1999-Jan-25) Received: from sigma (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sigma.veritas.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA30357; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:44:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Message-Id: <199906251244.FAA30357@sigma.veritas.com> From: Aaron Smith To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: John Baldwin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Malone , John Baldwin , Doug Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:14:48 +0200." <191.930298488@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:44:06 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:14:48 +0200, Sheldon Hearn writes: >I think I prefer the suggestion I saw from someone else, which would >allow > >ftp stream tcp nowait/10/10/wrap root ... > >This can be done in such a way as to be backward compatible. Looks like >something for the week-end, if I can convince my wife that it's a good >idea. :-) could you please restate the argument for this? i still haven't heard a decent reason for this sort of conf format perturbation. every small whack like this makes freebsd weirder to administrate -- there is a value to sharing the same inetd.conf format with lots of other platforms. if people have their undies in a wad over this, can't they compile inetd without LIBWRAP? aaron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 5:51:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0195114C09 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:51:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xVRC-00033l-00; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:50:34 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Aaron Smith Cc: John Baldwin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Malone , Doug Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:44:06 MST." <199906251244.FAA30357@sigma.veritas.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:50:34 +0200 Message-ID: <11764.930315034@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:44:06 MST, Aaron Smith wrote: > could you please restate the argument for this? i still haven't heard a > decent reason for this sort of conf format perturbation. I'm so tempted to say "me too". :-) John Baldwin has suggested that he had functionality with inetd + tcpd that he doesn't have any more with inetd + libwrap. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 5:56:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wheaton.wheaton.edu (wheaton.wheaton.edu [192.138.89.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F4D14C09 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:56:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from John.C.Hayward@wheaton.edu) Received: from abigail.wheaton.edu (abigail.wheaton.edu [207.58.72.66]) by wheaton.wheaton.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13428; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:56:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by abigail.wheaton.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA19499; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:56:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:56:22 -0500 (CDT) From: John.C.Hayward@wheaton.edu Message-Id: <199906251256.HAA19499@abigail.wheaton.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: abigail.wheaton.edu: nobody set sender to John.C.Hayward@wheaton.edu using -f To: "Soren S. Jorvang" , Jesper Skriver , Jaye Mathisen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, John.C.Hayward@wheaton.edu Reply-To: John.C.Hayward@wheaton.edu Cc: Taavi Talvik References: <19990625091853.B16045@skriver.dk> <19990625093123.B19518@gnyf.t.dk> In-Reply-To: <19990625093123.B19518@gnyf.t.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.7 Subject: Re: Anybody using the Efficient Networks ATM PCI adapter? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Couple of notes: o Taavi has done work on the FreeBSD port o The driver at ftp://ftp.wheaton.edu has several bugs in it which I think both Soren and Taavi have adjuste for. johnh... Quoting "Soren S. Jorvang" : > On Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 09:18:53AM +0200, Jesper Skriver wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 06:39:07PM -0700, Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > > > > > I see it's supported, but I'm curious if anybody is using it. If so, > I'd > > > like to ask a few questions off-line of somebody... > > > > Soren S. Jorvang is working on a NetBSD driver for the > > ATM25 version ... he claims it should be relative easy to bring it over > > to FreeBSD when it's ready. > > [I suspect Jaye was asking about the ENI-155, but someone might be > interested in this.] > > Note that I am not the author of this driver. John C. Hayward is. > > http://www.whitebarn.com/~bob/atm/ gives a little overview (though not > quite > up to date). > > There is also a newer driver at ftp://ftp.wheaton.edu/pub/ATM/lanai.tgz . > Some FreeBSD porting work has already been done, I think, but I am not > sure how far it is along. > > > -- > Soren > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 6:31:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu [136.165.4.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702FE15503 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:31:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k.stevenson@louisville.edu) Received: from homer.louisville.edu (ktstev01@homer.louisville.edu [136.165.1.20]) by unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28464 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:30:49 -0400 Received: (from ktstev01@localhost) by homer.louisville.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29182 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990625093126.D23508@homer.louisville.edu> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:31:26 -0400 From: Keith Stevenson To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. References: <199906251244.FAA30357@sigma.veritas.com> <11764.930315034@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <11764.930315034@axl.noc.iafrica.com>; from Sheldon Hearn on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 02:50:34PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 02:50:34PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:44:06 MST, Aaron Smith wrote: > > > could you please restate the argument for this? i still haven't heard a > > decent reason for this sort of conf format perturbation. > > I'm so tempted to say "me too". :-) > > John Baldwin has suggested that he had functionality with inetd + tcpd > that he doesn't have any more with inetd + libwrap. As much as I appreciate the work that has gone into adding this feature to inetd, I'm starting to wonder if it is causing more harm than good. One of the things I good-naturedly complain about to my Linux-using friends is the large number of seemingly gratuitous changes which make Linux different that other similar operating systems. As well-intentioned as adding libwrap support to inetd was, I'm having trouble finding a justification for the change. What is possible now that wasn't possible with tcpd from the ports collection? Why incorporate libwrap (and make our inetd functionally different from everyone else's) instead of bringing tcpd into the base system? I realize that I'm more than a bit late in raising these issues. I didn't even realize that libwrap had been added to inetd until Mark Murray told me at USENIX. (Somehow I missed all of the announcements.) Assuming that it is too late to undo the changes to inetd, I'd like to urge that we not also start tinkering with the format of inetd.conf. I'm just not comfortable with creating "FreeBSD-isms" when there isn't a clear improvement in functionality. Regards, --Keith Stevenson-- -- Keith Stevenson System Programmer - Data Center Services - University of Louisville k.stevenson@louisville.edu PGP key fingerprint = 4B 29 A8 95 A8 82 EA A2 29 CE 68 DE FC EE B6 A0 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 7: 5:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C34B14E16 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:05:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xWbJ-0003mO-00; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:05:05 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Keith Stevenson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:31:26 -0400." <19990625093126.D23508@homer.louisville.edu> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:05:05 +0200 Message-ID: <14531.930319505@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:31:26 -0400, Keith Stevenson wrote: > What is possible now that wasn't possible with tcpd from the ports > collection? Why incorporate libwrap (and make our inetd functionally > different from everyone else's) instead of bringing tcpd into the base > system? If we _don't_ use tcpd, we save an exec on every call to every wrapped service. I know we're all worried about creeping featurisms, but think about what we'll end up with here. We'll end up with an inetd that does _not_ wrap by default (discussed with jkh in private mail). So people wanting to carry on using tcpd stubbornly will be more than welcome to do so. We'll also end up with an inetd that _can_ wrap if it's told to (-w and -ww). So we end up offering a better super-server than we had before, with no backward compatibility problems, and no additional incompatibilities with other systems (I can't find an inetd that uses the -w flag for anything). > I realize that I'm more than a bit late in raising these issues. Not at all, so long as you don't manage to convince us that we've gone in the wrong direction. ;-) The additional option in inetd.conf is not something I want. However, it's something someone has made a legitimate public argument for, to which I can't come up with a decent rebuttal. The ``nowrap'' option in inetd.conf will be something specific to FreeBSD, I agree, but it's something you and me and the rest of the sane universe can happily do without -- you won't have to edit your inetd.conf just to cope with this FreeBSD-specific change. Ciaol, Sheldon (who is quickly learning that you can't please 'em all at all) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 8:11: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu [136.165.4.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C314E156E1 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k.stevenson@louisville.edu) Received: from homer.louisville.edu (ktstev01@homer.louisville.edu [136.165.1.20]) by unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA53870 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:10:12 -0400 Received: (from ktstev01@localhost) by homer.louisville.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09103 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990625111049.A8447@homer.louisville.edu> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:10:49 -0400 From: Keith Stevenson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. References: <19990625093126.D23508@homer.louisville.edu> <14531.930319505@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <14531.930319505@axl.noc.iafrica.com>; from Sheldon Hearn on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 04:05:05PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 04:05:05PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:31:26 -0400, Keith Stevenson wrote: > > > What is possible now that wasn't possible with tcpd from the ports > > collection? Why incorporate libwrap (and make our inetd functionally > > different from everyone else's) instead of bringing tcpd into the base > > system? > > If we _don't_ use tcpd, we save an exec on every call to every wrapped > service. Ok, I can see that as a win, especially for very busy servers. (I'm thinking ISPs here.) > > I know we're all worried about creeping featurisms, but think about > what we'll end up with here. We'll end up with an inetd that does _not_ > wrap by default (discussed with jkh in private mail). So people wanting > to carry on using tcpd stubbornly will be more than welcome to do so. > > We'll also end up with an inetd that _can_ wrap if it's told to (-w > and -ww). So we end up offering a better super-server than we had > before, with no backward compatibility problems, and no additional > incompatibilities with other systems (I can't find an inetd that uses > the -w flag for anything). Good. I was worried that we would have to add a flag to turn wrapping off. This makes the change much more palatable. > > The additional option in inetd.conf is not something I want. However, > it's something someone has made a legitimate public argument for, to > which I can't come up with a decent rebuttal. As long as this new option can safely be omitted by those of us who prefer a more "traditional" approach, I can't argue about it too much either. The purist in me doesn't like it, but I can't come up with a rebuttal either. > > Ciaol, > Sheldon (who is quickly learning that you can't please 'em all at all) Only a fool\h\h\h\h optimist tries to... :) Regards, --Keith Stevenson-- -- Keith Stevenson System Programmer - Data Center Services - University of Louisville k.stevenson@louisville.edu PGP key fingerprint = 4B 29 A8 95 A8 82 EA A2 29 CE 68 DE FC EE B6 A0 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 8:23:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pak2.texar.com (unknown [216.208.160.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5D2015492 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:23:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dseg@pak2.texar.com) Received: from localhost (dseg@localhost) by pak2.texar.com (8.9.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA28534; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:25:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Seguin To: "Brian F. Feldman" Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Connect and so on.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Dan Seguin wrote: > > > [snip] > > I use the calling proc's table as it is passed to the system call, and am > > trying to call socket and connect as if the user process originally called > > them one by one (from userland syscall 97 and 98). I seem to be getting > > the correct behaviour from socket, but the connect call fails. After > > DDB'ing and breaking on the call to connect, it appears to fail at copyin > > with an EFAULT (invalid address). Call stack: copyin from getsockaddr from > > connect. What am I missing here, and/or what incorrect assumptions have I > > made? I'm including the actual system call function below. > copyin() is done to get the sockaddr from the connect call. A copyin() is a user-space > to kernel-space memory copy, so you have a problem in your code (I'll point out where > below). > > -------- CODE starts ---------------- > > > > static int init_comms(p, uap) > > struct proc *p; > > register struct nosys_args *uap; > > { > > int sockfd1, stat; > > struct socket_args socket_uap; > > struct connect_args connect_uap; > > static struct sockaddr_in servaddr; > > This needs to be a valid structure in USER space, not kernel. OK. I suspected as much. Question is: how do I open a connection from KERNEL space? > > > > > socket_uap.domain = PF_LOCAL; > > socket_uap.type = SOCK_STREAM; > > socket_uap.protocol = 0; > > > > stat = socket(p, &socket_uap); > if (stat) > return stat; > > servaddr.sin_family = AF_LOCAL; > > servaddr.sin_port = htons(13); > > servaddr.sin_len = sizeof servaddr; > > if ( inet_aton((char *) "127.0.0.1", &servaddr.sin_addr) <= 0 ) > This is a bogus cast. const char * to char *? > > printf("\ninet_aton failed.\n"); > So return EINVAL. Yes. Forgot to take that out before submitting. I was humouring a colleague by trying this out. [snip] > > connect_uap.s = sockfd1; > > connect_uap.name = (caddr_t) &servaddr; > > That's the problem. It needs to point to (say) uap->servaddr; See above. I need to do this inside kernel. The client (or calling) process has no knowledge of the connection. > > > connect_uap.namelen = sizeof servaddr; > > > > stat = 0; > > stat = connect(p, &connect_uap); > > > > printf("\nConnect Stat: %d\n", stat); [snip] > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ > green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ > FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | > http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ As I said earlier in this post, I need to open a connection to the outside (presumably) from the KERNEL. The reason for this is that the calling process has no knowledge of the connection, and the connection, communication, response from other end, and closing of connection must be one atomic, discreet event that will not get interrupted. I assumed that this would have to be done from the KERNEL but maybe I'm wrong here. If I could use an external (userland) daemon with shared space, the KERNEL could write to it and the daemon would do the rest, but how do I keep ALL other processes (except system processes) from running? The latter didn't seem feasible to me. Thanks! Dan Seguin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 8:40:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB8D814EC5 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:40:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:43:22 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C11002761796A7@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Dan Seguin' , "Brian F. Feldman" Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: RE: Connect and so on.. Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:37:30 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Seguin [SMTP:dseg@texar.com] > Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 5:26 PM > To: Brian F. Feldman > Cc: FreeBSD Hackers > Subject: Re: Connect and so on.. > > As I said earlier in this post, I need to open a connection to the > outside > (presumably) from the KERNEL. The reason for this is that the calling > process has no knowledge of the connection, and the connection, > communication, response from other end, and closing of connection must > be > one atomic, discreet event that will not get interrupted. I assumed > that > this would have to be done from the KERNEL but maybe I'm wrong here. > If I > could use an external (userland) daemon with shared space, the KERNEL > could write to it and the daemon would do the rest, but how do I keep > ALL > other processes (except system processes) from running? The latter > didn't > seem feasible to me. [ML] From your original mail it is not obvious why this has to happen from the kernel, but I assume that you need to have the UID of the caller and the safest way would be to get it from the kernel. If that is the case, you could take a look at the way nfssvc(?) works going back into user space for authentication. There are, however, other authentication schemes which can be implemented keeping everything in user space--take a look at the secure RPC implementation (Bill Paul was working on that some time ago, IIRC). If you can tell a bit more about the problem grounds, perhaps an easier solution can be found. /Marino > Thanks! > > > Dan Seguin > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 9: 6:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pak2.texar.com (unknown [216.208.160.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FCEE14D6F for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:06:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dseg@pak2.texar.com) Received: from localhost (dseg@localhost) by pak2.texar.com (8.9.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA28677; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:08:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:08:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Seguin To: Ladavac Marino Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: RE: Connect and so on.. In-Reply-To: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C11002761796A7@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Ladavac Marino wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dan Seguin [SMTP:dseg@texar.com] > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 5:26 PM > > To: Brian F. Feldman > > Cc: FreeBSD Hackers > > Subject: Re: Connect and so on.. > > As I said earlier in this post, I need to open a connection to the > > outside > > (presumably) from the KERNEL. The reason for this is that the calling > > process has no knowledge of the connection, and the connection, > > communication, response from other end, and closing of connection must > > be > > one atomic, discreet event that will not get interrupted. I assumed > > that > > this would have to be done from the KERNEL but maybe I'm wrong here. > [ML] From your original mail it is not obvious why this has to > happen from the kernel, but I assume that you need to have the UID of > the caller and the safest way would be to get it from the kernel. If > that is the case, you could take a look at the way nfssvc(?) works going > back into user space for authentication. There are, however, other > authentication schemes which can be implemented keeping everything in > user space--take a look at the secure RPC implementation (Bill Paul was > working on that some time ago, IIRC). > > If you can tell a bit more about the problem grounds, perhaps an > easier solution can be found. > > /Marino Essentially, we're trying to mediate system calls. Read, Write, Open, Socket calls from userland are caught, information about the calling process (i.e. caller UID) are sent to an external source for authorization and depending on the reply, the system call will proceed or not. This is the reason why the connection should be atomic and (so I think) in the kernel. Can't have other calls going through in the interim. As a side note, I just started working on this last week after having shelved it for so long (that was when 2.2.8 (9)? was the latest). Doug Rabson and others helped with the system call stuff and it works beautifully. If any of you remember, thanks for the pointers! Since then, I've been going through the 4.4BSD implementation guide and learning lots. My knowledge isn't complete, but getting better. I appreciate the help I get here, it's even better than Usenet use to be before it got corrupted. Dan Seguin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 9:51:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles520.castles.com [208.214.165.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C89150CF for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:51:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03265; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906251647.JAA03265@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dan Seguin Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Connect and so on.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:25:42 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:47:24 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > static struct sockaddr_in servaddr; > > > > This needs to be a valid structure in USER space, not kernel. > > OK. I suspected as much. Question is: how do I open a connection from > KERNEL space? You don't. If you're really desperate to do this, you'll have to patch _all_ of the system calls to work out whether they're being called from the kernel or from userspace. There's actually a lot of utility in this, as it makes calling them easier from ABI modules as well. If you're looking for a nice, relatively easy FreeBSD hacking project, there's one right there. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 10: 1:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailhub1.liv.ac.uk (mailhub1.liv.ac.uk [138.253.100.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB66315773 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from r.s.brooks@liverpool.ac.uk) Received: from uxb.liv.ac.uk ([138.253.100.101]) by mailhub1.liv.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10xZM4-0003Ab-00; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:01:32 +0100 Received: (from rsb@localhost) by uxb.liv.ac.uk (8.8.7/ajt5) id SAA18444; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:01:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:01:22 +0100 (BST) From: Roger Brooks X-Sender: rsb@uxb.liv.ac.uk To: eeh@netbsd.org Cc: Matthew Jacob , Jason Thorpe , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Eduardo E. Horvath wrote: >We've been hashing this issue out quite a bit. Since a Fibre Channel card >is by definition a fibre channel controller, each card should have a >unique WWN that is used for the node WWN. If you swap a controller, the >node WWN should change. I've just had a quick look at a Sun Ultra 3500. This has an SBus FC-AL card with two GBICs, each GBIC being connnected to a SENA. There's also another FC-AL built into the I/O module which attaches the internal disk backplane. Poking about with luxadm, I found that the SBus FC-AL has TWO WWNs (one for each channel), and each SENA also has a WWN. On one channel, the WWNs of the SBus card and the SENA are consecutive, but the two WWNs belonging to the SBus card aren't. As two of the GBICs were supplied separately, this sort of suggests that the WWN might live in the GBIC (rather than the SBus card or the SENA backplane). I couldn't get luxadm to show the WWNs for the FC-AL controller which connects the internal disk backplane, but presumably this has another two, so for this machine you might have 4 WWNs to choose from! Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Roger Brooks (Systems Programmer), | Email: R.S.Brooks@liv.ac.uk Computing Services Dept, | Tel: +44 151 794 4441 The University of Liverpool, | Fax: +44 151 794 4442 PO Box 147, Liverpool L69 3BX, UK | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 10:28: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BC0114D09 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:27:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27163; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:28:02 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:26:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Jason Thorpe Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: <199906250701.AAA21253@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:41:34 -0700 (PDT) > Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > More generally a system unique identifier available early (pre mountroot) > > could be useful for a number of things. Why're you asking? > > The intended usage: > > (1) Could influence where it is stored. Yes. > > (2) Might be utterly useless (e.g. for software licensing, > especially when you have the source for the OS, and > can thus make it anything you want with a simple > kernel hack...) I'm not really concerned about this. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 10:33:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp (shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp [133.30.50.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8493115321 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:33:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from takawata@shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp) Received: from libr.scitec.kobe-u.ac.jp (cs2d339.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [202.219.174.247]) by shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28509 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:23:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from shidahara1.planet.kobe-u.ac.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by libr.scitec.kobe-u.ac.jp (8.9.1/3.5Wpl7) with ESMTP id CAA12146 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:33:15 +0900 (JST) From: takawata@shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <199906251733.CAA12146@libr.scitec.kobe-u.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NEWBUS-ifyed ISA-PnP Question. Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:33:13 +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I believe someone working on NEWBUS-ifying ISA-PnP. How will they implement it? I think current framework is like this. +--------+ +--------+ ...|ISA DEV | |ISA-hint|<-This device provides +--------+ +--------+ what device is connected | | | the ISA bus. ----------ISA-------------- | +-------------+ |Nexus or ISAB| +-------------+ 1. Is the figure true? 2.If so,where do they attach ISA-PnP mechanism? attach it like ISA-hint device,modify ISA Bus code or isapnpbus other than ISA-Bus? 3.How do I add ISA-PnP device? 4.How do I add PnP mechanism other than ISA-PnP. Takanori Watanabe Public Key Key fingerprint = 2C 51 E2 78 2C E1 C5 2D 0F F1 20 A3 11 3A 62 2A P.S Come baaaack ctm....... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 10:36:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E2115011 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:36:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27221; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:36:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:34:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: eeh@netbsd.org Cc: Jason Thorpe , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > Specifically in this case a Node WWN for fibre channel fabrics that does > > not depend upon an assigned WWN in any particular Fibre Channel card > > (multipathing might make it desirable to have a synthetic Node WWN that > > can also be passed to partner systems in a failover configuration). > > Matt, > > We've been hashing this issue out quite a bit. Since a Fibre Channel card I thought you might be! > is by definition a fibre channel controller, each card should have a > unique WWN that is used for the node WWN. If you swap a controller, the > node WWN should change. Really? Couldn't the Port WWN change and the Node WWN stay constant? I mean, yes, for FC controllers that have WWN in the 0x2XXXXXXXXXXXX range, the Node WWN is 0x20... and the Port is 0x22... but it seems like this is a soft relationship- you *could* have Port && Node unique for each card, but then that requires all fabric clients to know (via some other arbitrary mechanism) that distinct WWNs are really the same 'box'. What's the Leadville group's opinion on this? > The concept is that for SCSI disks and RAID boxen at least, the unique > identifier is the LUN WWN, which is the unique label for the data > contained on that LUN. The LUN WWN is 128 bits wide is generated from a > combination of the controller's node WWN and a timestamp, and is lost when > the LUN is destroyed. Sure. That's reasonable enough, but not necessarily a problem that needs solving. The LUN isn't interesting in that what you want a known Node WWN for (routed to via multiple Port WWNs) so that when you construct the addressing to some physical box you, and intervening FC switches, can get the frame there. Beyond that, multilevel LUN numbers seem adequate for *within box* addressing, and then whatever volume management software needs to look at > If you're not dealing with SCSI disks, well, I don't know if the standards > guys have considered that sort of situation yet. Yes indeed. At any rate, the WWN issue is just one use of this identifier. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 11: 3: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pallas.veritas.com (pallas.veritas.com [204.177.156.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A8C915781 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:02:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Received: from megami.veritas.com (megami.veritas.com [192.203.46.101]) by pallas.veritas.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA24950; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sigma.veritas.com([192.203.46.125]) (3454 bytes) by megami.veritas.com via sendmail with P:esmtp/R:smart_host/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:02:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #3 built 1999-Jan-25) Received: from sigma (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sigma.veritas.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA31221; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:02:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Message-Id: <199906251802.LAA31221@sigma.veritas.com> From: Aaron Smith To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Keith Stevenson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:05:05 +0200." <14531.930319505@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:02:04 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:05:05 +0200, Sheldon Hearn writes: >We'll also end up with an inetd that _can_ wrap if it's told to (-w >and -ww). So we end up offering a better super-server than we had >before, with no backward compatibility problems, and no additional >incompatibilities with other systems (I can't find an inetd that uses >the -w flag for anything). hi sheldon, i have no problem with -w options, but i am still surprised that you want to go ahead with the conf format change. i'm going to present my rebuttal here, but the only argument i could dig up was "there is missing functionality". (john baldwin? not sure) raised the issue that before, he could control which services were wrapped. now, all services are wrapped. why is this bad? what has been lost? can the user no longer get the old behavior? no, he can. undefining LIBWRAP at compile time (or a runtime flag) plus tcpd gets him exactly where he was before. this will be even less of an issue with -w flags or an inverted default. performance incurred by reading "default allow" rules on invocations? no, for several reasons. the hosts.allow file is going to be in the cache. the design is first matched, so one can also place the service one is concerned about at the beginning of the lists. but third and most importantly: if startup performance is an issue to the extent that the small overhead of this call is important, you should not be using inetd. you should have a standalone daemon. (which you can decide to wrap or not wrap). the overhead here is going to in reality be small. logging configurability? i seem to remember something about this, and while i am trying to come up with a difference, i can't see one. hosts.allow is very configurable logging wise. the messages come from inetd, yes...but they can be separated out by severity/facility. i can't imagine logging differences is a good reason. so to this one too i have to say "no". we already have a service-by-service control file "hosts.allow" that provides the ability to in EFFECT control what gets wrapped. please do not duplicate that functionality again -- we can do without it. it's an additional complexity that buys us *nothing*. >The additional option in inetd.conf is not something I want. However, >it's something someone has made a legitimate public argument for, to >which I can't come up with a decent rebuttal. i hope i've made a persuasive case that a *conf file format change* isn't justified here. it doesn't make sense, especially if you are, as you have mentioned, going to switch unwrapped to default and require -w for wrapping. thanks, aaron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 11:32:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.chromatix.com (unknown [207.97.115.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8EFA14E4D; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:32:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick@chromatix.com) Received: from dogwood (dogwood.chromatix.com [207.97.115.140]) by mail.chromatix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA24294; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:32:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from nick@chromatix.com) Message-ID: <003501bebf39$22a396e0$8c7361cf@dogwood.chromatix.com> From: "Nick LoPresti" To: , Subject: NIS Question Thanks!! Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:32:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG First of all, I would like to thank everyone who helped me with my NIS problems(A few days back). It is up and running now. For anyone else attempting to set up NIS, what really helped me was this website: http://www.realtime.net/sculpture/nis-startup.html For all those questioning the security risks, I AM running my NIS domain behind a firewall, a good one too, FreeBSD firewall :) Now, I have another question about NIS... Does NIS support any kind of caching? Or does it go out to the NIS server every time someone logs in? Is there a way to set something up? After I start putting most of the systems on this, I imagine that network usage is going to raise dramatically... Thanks for any info you can provide! ================================================ Nick nick@chromatix.com Web Page: http://www.lopresti.dhs.org/users/nick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 11:39:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.chromatix.com (unknown [207.97.115.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9681014E75; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:39:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick@chromatix.com) Received: from dogwood (dogwood.chromatix.com [207.97.115.140]) by mail.chromatix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA24319; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:39:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from nick@chromatix.com) Message-ID: <003701bebf3a$11172350$8c7361cf@dogwood.chromatix.com> From: "Nick LoPresti" To: , , Subject: SOCKS5 Question Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:39:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lemme explain my situation. I have a FreeBSD box sitting behind a Microsoft Proxy Server. I want the FreeBSD box to be able to reach the internet via SOCKS. I have downloaded, installed, and played a great deal with this software. I can't seem to get it to work. Could someone help me out? Possibly send me an example config file and then tell me what to do to get applications to work.... I am pretty damn far in the dark with this. I am totally lost. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot. P.S. Please, no reply's pertaining to using Microsoft Proxy Server or WinNT at all. I have my reasons for doing this. WINSOCK proxy can do wonders.... ================================================ Nick nick@chromatix.com Web Page: http://www.lopresti.dhs.org/users/nick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 12: 0:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA0FC157A1 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id UAA10803; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:56:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01203; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:38:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199906251838.UAA01203@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: from Matthew Jacob at "Jun 24, 1999 3:58:46 pm" To: mjacob@feral.com Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:38:01 +0200 (CEST) Cc: justin@apple.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > Yes. The Solaris drivers use the 'localetheraddr' function, or's in 1<<60 > and then HBA instance # << 48 to make a NAA_IEEE port identifier. > > > > > The main issue, I think, is that of persistence. How persistent do > > you want it? I'd bet that no matter what source you use, there's > > always the problem of "it broke; I had to replace it; now what?". > > Kind of like your grandfather's axe, which has had six handles and > > two blades over its lifetime, but it's still your grandfather's axe. > > I want it to persist until it's changed. Change doesn't mean a reboot. > > The practical side of this problem, which is a relatively trivial problem, > is to supply a consistent node WWN for fibre channel adapters that don't > have an assigned WWN in NVRAM. This only needs to be persistent across > reboots when I finish implementing the target mode code- a WWN identifying > a system as a 'device' needs to persist until told to change. FYI: The Compaq HSG80 Fibrechannel RAID controllers have their WWN in NVRAM. One is supposed to get the WWN from a label on the *cabinet* into the HSG controller. This allows for easy hardware swap in case of hardware grief. -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 12: 1:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6614414F2B for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:01:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27732; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:01:27 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:59:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Wilko Bulte Cc: justin@apple.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: <199906251838.UAA01203@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > FYI: The Compaq HSG80 Fibrechannel RAID controllers have their > WWN in NVRAM. One is supposed to get the WWN from a label on the *cabinet* > into the HSG controller. This allows for easy hardware swap in case of > hardware grief. Yes, if you want the WWN to stay constant. -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 12: 4:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA5D15095 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21381; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:04:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:04:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug X-Sender: doug@dt054n86.san.rr.com To: Aaron Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serial Console Wierdness In-Reply-To: <199906221739.KAA13462@sigma.veritas.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Aaron Smith wrote: > (also see http://www.arctic.org/~aaron/tips/freebsd-serial-console) Great page, thank you. One suggestion I have is that you make the distinction between getting a login prompt on the com console and getting the boot messages to display on the com console more clear. The fact that those are two different things was not clear to me at all when I started working on this, and it's kind of an important distinction. :) Also, you might consider listing the getty stuff first. It's a lot easier to set that up and debug it since you don't have to keep rebooting, and once that's working getting the boot messages to display should be cake. Finally, you might want to mention that reading /usr/src/sys/i386/boot/biosboot/README.serial is a good idea, even though I wish that file had more details. :-/ I have a couple weird cases that I'd like to solicit comment on. First, I'm hooking up a new FreeBSD machine to the digiboard serial terminal at work. Everything works at 9600, including the bios boot messages from the Intel N440BX mb which supports serial console redirection. The problem comes when I try to raise the speed to 38400. The bios messages come through just fine at that speed, so the serial port and the digiboard support it. Also, if I have a keyboard plugged in, I see everything on the console that I should, and I get the login prompt. But when I unplug the keyboard and the -P option in /boot.config kicks in, the console messages come out in high ascii and even the getty prompt is scrambled. I took the following steps: edit /etc/make.conf rebuild boot blocks change my cuaa0 to std.38400 in /etc/ttys (ttyd0 didn't work with the digiboard) change digiboard speed to 38400 reboot I also tried the CONSPEED option in the kernel config (this is a -current system) still no joy. If I downgrade everything back to 9600 I'm back in business. I'm not sure if it should make a difference, but my cable has only 3 pins, Transmit and Receive crossed, and Ground linked directly. Also, the bios boot output and the digiboard both have XON/XOFF enabled, the rest of the options are the defaults. Yes I know that the obvious answer is "run it at 9600" which is ok with me, since we don't use the comconsole very often. However I find it kind of disturbing that it doesn't work at 38.4. :-/ Weird case number 2 is my two home machines. I've been trying to get a serial console going at home for months with no luck. Your suggestion of using kermit on both boxes has lead me in the right direction, so I'm more hopeful, but I'm still seeing weirdness. The headless (well, the old monitor is attached, for now but no kb) server is "slave," and my workstation is "Master." I have a commercial null modem cable connected to com1 (cuaa0) on slave and com2 on master. (Which reminds me, I think that one or the other of your kermit command lines needs to be changed, since generally you don't want to connect to com1 on both machines. :) When I type in kermit on master, I get nada, not even a local echo. When I type on slave it gets passed to master, but it's all scrambled. Sometimes it's alpha chars, sometimes it's all numbers, and sometimes it's high ascii, depending on how I set the flow control, speed, parity, etc. FWIW, slave is a very old (almost 5 years now) former P 90, now running an intel overdrive chip at 150. I overclocked this machine for years, but I stepped it down just in case that was the cause of my problems. Master is a shiny new box I built from scratch, using an Asus P2B mb, Celeron 300a, etc. I also overclocked this box when I built it, but also stepped it down for this. I have 2.2.8-Release on slave, -current (and formerly -stable, that didn't work for this either) on master. I tried to upgrade slave to 2.2.8-stable last night just in case, but the build failed (still working on that). I do plan to upgrade that box to 3-stable, but I can't do that yet. The immediate suspect is the cable, but when I built my own cable with just TR & G, I got the same results. I bought the commercial grade null modem cable thinking maybe I screwed something up, but it's no better. These are 9 pin serial ports on both boxes. I have no serial devices on slave, and a modem on master but it's set to com3, and I only use it in windows (master is a dual boot box). I'm wondering if the overclocking on the old P90 for so many years might have fried the uarts or something else related to the serial ports? If so, would getting an ISA serial port card and making that my serial console help any? I haven't tried making com2 my serial console yet, is that worth trying? I'm also going to get some new plugs/cables/etc. this weekend so that I can give making my own cable another try, just in case. Any help on either of these cases would be appreciated. Thanks, Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 12:12:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B7C9F150D2 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:12:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 25 Jun 1999 20:12:01 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:12:01 +0100 From: David Malone To: Aaron Smith Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Keith Stevenson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. Message-ID: <19990625201201.A10893@boole.maths.tcd.ie> References: <14531.930319505@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <199906251802.LAA31221@sigma.veritas.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199906251802.LAA31221@sigma.veritas.com>; from Aaron Smith on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 11:02:04AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 11:02:04AM -0700, Aaron Smith wrote: > i have no problem with -w options, but i am still surprised that you want > to go ahead with the conf format change. This isn't so much a conf format change, as a conf format extension. It is the same type of extension as was added to support max child and max child per minute - which aren't a standard inetd feature. All old inetd.conf files remain valid. (It's not like inetd.conf is all that machine independant anyway, as it is full of paths to programs and contains services specific to that machine. You'd never condider rdisting it between machines of a different architecture for example). > (john baldwin? not sure) raised the issue that before, he could control > which services were wrapped. now, all services are wrapped. why is this > bad? what has been lost? Some people think that doing the hosts.allow lookup is too expensive for some services but not others. (It requires opening /etc/hosts.allow, reading it in line by line and possibly doing DNS lookups). I wouldn't say it actually makes that much difference 'cos very few people provide really high performance services from inetd, and the hit from tcp wrapping isn't all that high (we run our smtpd from inetd first through tcp wrappers and then through a rbl program and then finally the smtpd and don't have any problems with it). David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 12:33:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18B7D157CC for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:33:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27835; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:34:05 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:32:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: eeh@netbsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > Really? Couldn't the Port WWN change and the Node WWN stay constant? I > > mean, yes, for FC controllers that have WWN in the 0x2XXXXXXXXXXXX range, > > the Node WWN is 0x20... and the Port is 0x22... but it seems like this is > > a soft relationship- you *could* have Port && Node unique for each card, > > but then that requires all fabric clients to know (via some other > > arbitrary mechanism) that distinct WWNs are really the same 'box'. > > Existing FC RAID boxes have multiple controllers, each with a different > WWN. The port WWN is derived from the Node WWN. The Node WWN is in the > controller's PROM. In theory, when you swap one controller, the other > controller could remember the old node WWN and give it to the new > controller, but: > > If you swap both controllers, who's going to remember the old node WWNs? > > If you pull one controller from one box and stick it into another box, > then plug in a replacement controller into the first box, if the > replacement controller takes over the previous WWN, you could end up with > two different devices with the same WWN. I agree that this would be chaos, but you're using implementation to argue architecture. I'm thinking of a SANs of FreeBSD/NetBSD/Linux/Solaris boxes running simultaneous target/initiator mode on Fibre Channel. I can use WWN info wired into a specific card (whether it's the Port or Node WWN is solely at my discretion when I fire up the f/w and tell it what it it is), or I can choose something different entirely as the source of a WWN. As long as it's guaranteed unique in this domain, it's an acceptable design. > > Sure. That's reasonable enough, but not necessarily a problem that needs > > solving. The LUN isn't interesting in that what you want a known Node WWN > > for (routed to via multiple Port WWNs) so that when you construct the > > addressing to some physical box you, and intervening FC switches, can get > > the frame there. Beyond that, multilevel LUN numbers seem adequate for > > *within box* addressing, and then whatever volume management software > > needs to look at > > Thing is, the LUN is reachable through both controllers, each has a > different Node (and port) WWN. The FCP protocol layer should be > addressing these entities by LUN WWN. This means that it is responsible > for identifying the individual entities and establishing the mapping of > LUN WWN to associated Node WWNs. For boxes that support LUN WWN.... > > Thus multipathing needs to be done both at the FCP layer to handle the LUN > WWN <-> Node WWN mapping, as well as lower levels to deal with different > routes to different ports. > > Now you could allow the Node WWN to migrate between different physical > machines or controllers when handling failover, but if you did that you > would be violating the spirit, if not the letter of the Fibre Channel > specifications. This is a valid point- I'm going to mull about this some more then. > > Having said all that, I am a strong proponent of dumping all these silly > WWNs in the trash and embedding a volume identifier in the disklabel > itself. You really don't care all that much what device you're talking to > most of the time. What you really want is your data, so label the data > not the hardware. That's sct's (tweedie's) notion too. The answer to this is "Sometimes you *do* care about not only which specific one of N replicate data sets you have, and sometimes you even care about which path you took to get it". > > > At any rate, the WWN issue is just one use of this identifier. > > While the idea of a unique system identifier may have merit, I don't think > that generating node WWNs is an appropriate use for it. So, when are you gonna fix socal in Solaris to not use localetheraddr and a blind usage of hba instance (which has at least two level 2 bugs waiting to happen any day now) as a seed for cons'ed up WWNs? (*now* who's using implementation to argue architecture? :-;) -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 13: 2:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pallas.veritas.com (pallas.veritas.com [204.177.156.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E556E14DD0 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:02:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Received: from megami.veritas.com (megami.veritas.com [192.203.46.101]) by pallas.veritas.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA29312; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sigma.veritas.com([192.203.46.125]) (2897 bytes) by megami.veritas.com via sendmail with P:esmtp/R:smart_host/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:02:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #3 built 1999-Jan-25) Received: from sigma (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sigma.veritas.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA31761; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:02:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Message-Id: <199906252002.NAA31761@sigma.veritas.com> From: Aaron Smith To: David Malone Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Keith Stevenson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:12:01 BST." <19990625201201.A10893@boole.maths.tcd.ie> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:02:00 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:12:01 BST, David Malone writes: >This isn't so much a conf format change, as a conf format extension. >It is the same type of extension as was added to support max child >and max child per minute - which aren't a standard inetd feature. >All old inetd.conf files remain valid. hey, that's a pretty neat feature. i confess i wasn't aware of that. out of curiosity, can old inetds read this without choking? (sheldon said backwards compatible the other day but i'm not sure if he meant upwards compatible...) >(It's not like inetd.conf is all that machine independant anyway, >as it is full of paths to programs and contains services specific >to that machine. You'd never condider rdisting it between machines >of a different architecture for example). agreed; what i was trying to get at is the mental difference in dealing with it. i didn't realize there was an extension already in place -- i should have checked the man page over when i saw sheldon's first message about "wait/10/10/nowrap". in order to make this compatible won't one have to specify the not-so-pretty "wait/0/0/nowrap"? i guess "wait/nowrap" could be made to work. that's less ugly. is 0 already an alias for "unlimited"? i am less bothered by this change given the maxchild precedent, if there are definitely people who will *use* this. if people don't actually use it, it will just become a chunk of legacy extra-complexity. >Some people think that doing the hosts.allow lookup is too expensive >for some services but not others. (It requires opening /etc/hosts.allow, >reading it in line by line and possibly doing DNS lookups). you won't have to go to disk, though (it will be cached for all cases in which you care), and if you've got an early allow rule for the service, you won't have to do any lookups. and like you say, if it's that sensitive, why is it starting out of inetd? all: sorry if i came off too strident. i have a sore spot for feeping creaturism. :) aaron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 14: 0:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pallas.veritas.com (pallas.veritas.com [204.177.156.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF2C14D8C for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Received: from megami.veritas.com (megami.veritas.com [192.203.46.101]) by pallas.veritas.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA01345 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sigma.veritas.com([192.203.46.125]) (673 bytes) by megami.veritas.com via sendmail with P:esmtp/R:smart_host/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #3 built 1999-Jan-25) Received: from sigma (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sigma.veritas.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA31969 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:00:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaron@sigma.veritas.com) Message-Id: <199906252100.OAA31969@sigma.veritas.com> From: Aaron Smith To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ufs/ffs resize? Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:00:41 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG anybody done any work on a utility for growing ufs filesystems? aaron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 14:12:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C74A1585E for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA40549; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:12:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Aaron Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ufs/ffs resize? In-Reply-To: <199906252100.OAA31969@sigma.veritas.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG there are several greg lehey has been collecting them. julian On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Aaron Smith wrote: > anybody done any work on a utility for growing ufs filesystems? > > aaron > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 14:14:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD6831585E for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id XAA15938; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:03:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA78001; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:01:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199906252101.XAA78001@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: from Matthew Jacob at "Jun 25, 1999 11:59:49 am" To: mjacob@feral.com Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:01:24 +0200 (CEST) Cc: justin@apple.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > > > > FYI: The Compaq HSG80 Fibrechannel RAID controllers have their > > WWN in NVRAM. One is supposed to get the WWN from a label on the *cabinet* > > into the HSG controller. This allows for easy hardware swap in case of > > hardware grief. > > Yes, if you want the WWN to stay constant. Well, you do. Especially when you are using things like zoning (like that Brocade switches can do) or when the host directly ties things to the wwn it talks to. E.g. for connection to Sun we use Jaycor adapters that allow things like "target=foo lun=bar www="<64bitnumber>" in the Solaris /kernel/drv/sd.conf file -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 14:15: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110CC14EFC for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:15:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA95464; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:15:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:15:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906252115.OAA95464@apollo.backplane.com> To: Aaron Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ufs/ffs resize? References: <199906252100.OAA31969@sigma.veritas.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :anybody done any work on a utility for growing ufs filesystems? : :aaron It has been brought up a couple of times but nobody has tried to do actually it. Personally, I think it would be a doable project if someone wanted to have a go at it - to allow a filesystem to be grown or shrunk on a cylinder-by-cylinder basis. The only real complexity occurs when you are shrinking a filesystem - you have to locate the inodes & indirect blocks associated with allocated data blocks in the cylinder you are trying to remove in order to move the blocks. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 14:29:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 94B71151E0 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:29:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id VAA04356; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:03:53 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199906251903.VAA04356@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: ufs/ffs resize? To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:03:52 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: aaron-fbsd@mutex.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199906252115.OAA95464@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Jun 25, 99 02:14:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1296 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :anybody done any work on a utility for growing ufs filesystems? > : > :aaron > > It has been brought up a couple of times but nobody has tried > to do actually it. Personally, I think it would be a doable > project if someone wanted to have a go at it - to allow a filesystem > to be grown or shrunk on a cylinder-by-cylinder basis. The only real > complexity occurs when you are shrinking a filesystem - you have to locate > the inodes & indirect blocks associated with allocated data blocks > in the cylinder you are trying to remove in order to move the blocks. the latter would be the task for a "packer" utility. Myself, I have desired more often to be able to shring a FS than extend one (i mean, barring black magic that would put on a disk more stuff than its capacity). cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 14:38:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D2FB158A6 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:38:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drew@plutotech.com) Received: from dune.plutotech.com (drew@dune.plutotech.com [206.168.67.170]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA38578; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:58:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drew@plutotech.com) From: Drew Eckhardt Received: (from drew@localhost) by dune.plutotech.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) id OAA78683; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:58:35 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:58:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199906252058.OAA78683@dune.plutotech.com> To: jobaldwi@vt.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-Reply-To: <199906242353.TAA06995@smtp4.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199906242353.TAA06995@smtp4.erols.com> you write: > >Here's one possibility, it adds a a wrap/nowrap field that goes beside the >wait/nowait field, so you would have: > >ftp stream tcp nowait wrap root /usr/libexec/ftpd ftpd -l Breaking backwards compatability is evil. Do something like this instead - ftp stream tcp nowait&wrap root /usr/libexec/ftpd ftpd -l To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 14:39:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E16115886 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:39:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28197; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:39:43 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:38:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Wilko Bulte Cc: justin@apple.com, tech-kern@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: <199906252101.XAA78001@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yes, you want the WWN to stay constant. That doesn't mean it should necessarily be the same physical box. Nor does it mean it should be a system that comes with a WWN assigned to by the manufacturer. I think I'm confusing myself and people. I have a WWN. By definition it should be unique value. All I'm asking for is a kernel function to help me generate such a thing (despite what Eduardo says). On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Wilko Bulte wrote: > As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > > > > > > FYI: The Compaq HSG80 Fibrechannel RAID controllers have their > > > WWN in NVRAM. One is supposed to get the WWN from a label on the *cabinet* > > > into the HSG controller. This allows for easy hardware swap in case of > > > hardware grief. > > > > Yes, if you want the WWN to stay constant. > > Well, you do. Especially when you are using things like zoning (like > that Brocade switches can do) or when the host directly ties things to > the wwn it talks to. E.g. for connection to Sun we use Jaycor adapters > that allow things like "target=foo lun=bar www="<64bitnumber>" in the > Solaris /kernel/drv/sd.conf file And to boot a Sun over fibre channel, you use the WWN. -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 14:48:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5296A14D54 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id OAA12165; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id OAA03644; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:46:10 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA02879; Fri, 25 Jun 99 14:46:07 PDT Message-Id: <3773F89F.66D0C19B@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:46:07 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Smith Cc: Alfred Perlstein , "Brian F. Feldman" , Karl Denninger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: synch primitives (was Re: Microsoft performance) References: <199906250125.SAA27855@sigma.veritas.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Aaron Smith wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:14:19 CDT, Alfred Perlstein writes: > >I'm not sure what you mean by the refernce to malloc types, I just > >thought something along the lines of mutex_t with an API > >for trying, allocating, freeing and initializing them. > > i'd really like to implement some of the basic solaris primitives: mutex, > cv (condition variable), sema p/v. i sent a message to the smp list on this > at one point but didn't get much of a response other than cranky noises > about "super fine-grained locking isn't worth it". what i'd like to see is > the groundwork laid for finER locking so that we can gradually break up the > points of contention. mutex/cv/sema are intuitive and taught in every OS > course; i don't feel "simple_lock" or "lockmgr" are desirable or adequate. > > i'm willing to work on it, but i can't get to it for at least a couple of > months, so i'm hoping someone else wants to work on it too. Here's a couple of good research points: uC/OS II by Jean J. Labrosse. This books presents the source for a small, embeddable kernel. It is quite good, and clearly explained. The kernel supports a rich set of threading tools, including sema- phores, mailboxes, and message queues. http://www.ucos-ii.com/ or just buy the book. ;^) eCos, from Cygnus support. A "community source license" embedded OS. I haven't worked with eCos much (yet), but it should be pretty comprehensive. http://www.cygnus.com/ecos/ for more info. RTEMS, a GPL'd embedded kernel. RTEMS was designed for multiprocessor systems from the ground up, and has a rich set of SMP-related tools. Seehttp://www.oarcorp.com/rtems/rtems.html for information and down loads. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 14:57:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649DD14A09 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:57:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id OAA12277; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id OAA03918; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:55:11 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA03358; Fri, 25 Jun 99 14:55:04 PDT Message-Id: <3773FAB7.F44A79C1@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:55:03 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: mjacob@feral.com Cc: "Justin C. Walker" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Jacob wrote: > > I want it to persist until it's changed. Change doesn't mean a reboot. > > The Linux folks (mostly Ted) helped me clarify some thinking about this so > that the basic original source of the seeded WWN doesn't have to come from > first principles in hardware that can be read prior to mounting root. But > where the linux folks aren't really hipped on is a good architecturally > clean place to store the seed. It'd be nice if we thought of this for > FreeBSD. Are there enough bytes available in the BIOS NVRAM? That would do nicely as a place to store it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 14:59:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 064F114A09 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:59:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28251; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:59:43 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:58:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: <3773FAB7.F44A79C1@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > I want it to persist until it's changed. Change doesn't mean a reboot. > > > > The Linux folks (mostly Ted) helped me clarify some thinking about this so > > that the basic original source of the seeded WWN doesn't have to come from > > first principles in hardware that can be read prior to mounting root. But > > where the linux folks aren't really hipped on is a good architecturally > > clean place to store the seed. It'd be nice if we thought of this for > > FreeBSD. > > Are there enough bytes available in the BIOS NVRAM? That would do > nicely as a place to store it. Whose BIOS NVRAM? This is not entirely architecturally even handed though. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 15:18:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B496415707 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:18:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA12548; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA04545; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:18:06 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA04627; Fri, 25 Jun 99 15:18:05 PDT Message-Id: <3774001C.F264CDB0@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:18:04 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: mjacob@feral.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > > > > > I want it to persist until it's changed. Change doesn't mean a reboot. > > > > > > The Linux folks (mostly Ted) helped me clarify some thinking about this so > > > that the basic original source of the seeded WWN doesn't have to come from > > > first principles in hardware that can be read prior to mounting root. But > > > where the linux folks aren't really hipped on is a good architecturally > > > clean place to store the seed. It'd be nice if we thought of this for > > > FreeBSD. > > > > Are there enough bytes available in the BIOS NVRAM? That would do > > nicely as a place to store it. > > Whose BIOS NVRAM? The host system BIOS NVRAM. I thought we were looking for a per-host ID here, right? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 15:20:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 145BA1559E for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:20:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA28384; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:21:04 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:19:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: <3774001C.F264CDB0@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Whose BIOS NVRAM? > > The host system BIOS NVRAM. I thought we were looking for a per-host > ID here, right? Yes, but this kind of NVRAM isn't available on an Alpha, or a Sparc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 15:47:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BAF514CA3 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:47:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA03089; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906252247.PAA03089@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Wes Peters Cc: mjacob@feral.com, "Justin C. Walker" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:47:05 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:55:03 -0600 Wes Peters wrote: > Are there enough bytes available in the BIOS NVRAM? That would do > nicely as a place to store it. If you want this to be widely adoped across the free OS community (hell, even if you want both of FreeBSD's platforms to support it), you'd better come up with a less PC-centric place of storing this information. -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 15:48:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 527D714CA3 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:48:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA03133; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906252248.PAA03133@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Wes Peters Cc: mjacob@feral.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:48:36 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:18:04 -0600 Wes Peters wrote: > > Whose BIOS NVRAM? > > The host system BIOS NVRAM. I thought we were looking for a per-host > ID here, right? I think Matt meant "which vendor's BIOS?" -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 15:56: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (devserv.devel.redhat.com [207.175.42.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CA6514EE5 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:56:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zab@zabbo.net) Received: from hoser.devel (hoser.devel.redhat.com [207.175.42.139]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA19118; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:55:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (zab@localhost) by hoser.devel (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA28747; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:55:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: hoser.devel: zab owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:55:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Zach Brown X-Sender: zab@hoser To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) In-Reply-To: <199906241932.MAA01005@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > It's stupid to tune everything for performance except for the web > > server -- they should be using Zeus, not Apache. > > The Zeus evaluation license prohibits its use for benchmarks, and the > Zeus folks failed to respond to any of my attempts to communicate. we actually did get permission to use it just in time, we ran it the night before we left rather than sleep :) I think you'd left by that time? anyway, it shot right up to the same peak apache did, but sustained it with much less effort than apache. zeus is indeed well engineered. this is mostly meaningless for you guys, except as a case where finer grained locking would have been nice. part of the parameters of the 'test' was that we were forced to use four dorky 100mb interfaces rather than a nice single gigabit interface that would have aggregated traffic. we had subsystem locks, but this workload had lots of packets coming in through the nics on the cpus and had lots of processes all also trying to get into tcp. yay massive static http churn creating massive conention on the inet/socket subsystems. NT's stack and threaded server held up under this, as does solaris x86.. just something to keep in mind, I guess, applying the usual common sense to how useful these benchmarks are in comparing systems. :) mike, hope to see you again sometime.. -- zach - - - - - - 007 373 5963 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 16: 6: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2ADD15481 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:05:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id QAA12988; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA05812; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:05:25 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA07200; Fri, 25 Jun 99 16:05:22 PDT Message-Id: <37740B32.82B5B268@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:05:22 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: mjacob@feral.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > > Whose BIOS NVRAM? > > > > The host system BIOS NVRAM. I thought we were looking for a per-host > > ID here, right? > > Yes, but this kind of NVRAM isn't available on an Alpha, or a Sparc. On the SPARC you can put it in the OpenBoot environment. I dunno about the Alpha. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 16:12: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1854714D57 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28558; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:12:06 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:10:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: <37740B32.82B5B268@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > > > > Whose BIOS NVRAM? > > > > > > The host system BIOS NVRAM. I thought we were looking for a per-host > > > ID here, right? > > > > Yes, but this kind of NVRAM isn't available on an Alpha, or a Sparc. > > On the SPARC you can put it in the OpenBoot environment. I dunno > about the Alpha. There's NVRAM and so on for a lot of machines. I'm thinking that the cleanest place to put this which would be common across all *BSD's would be: a) A base release 128 bit UUID generator. b) A step in kernel configuration that snags such a value and puts it in a place that sysctl can get at it. c) A utility that binary patches the kernel so that a change via sysctl is persistent. All of this is quite grotesque. If it was FreeBSD specific, then stuff in /boot and sysctl would be fine- but I'd like to see this be *BSD, not just FreeBSD. -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 17:27:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3146D14D3D for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00865; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906260011.RAA00865@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jason Thorpe Cc: Wes Peters , mjacob@feral.com, "Justin C. Walker" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:47:05 PDT." <199906252247.PAA03089@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:11:43 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:55:03 -0600 > Wes Peters wrote: > > > Are there enough bytes available in the BIOS NVRAM? That would do > > nicely as a place to store it. > > If you want this to be widely adoped across the free OS community > (hell, even if you want both of FreeBSD's platforms to support it), > you'd better come up with a less PC-centric place of storing this > information. The loader will, at some stage in the future, grow a persistent data store in which items like this can be saved. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 17:35: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ww185.netaddress.usa.net (ww185.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AD9E215123 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:34:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frankrj@netscape.net) Received: (qmail 26581 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jun 1999 00:34:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19990626003458.26580.qmail@ww185.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.85 by ww185 via web-mailer(M3.2.0.17) on Sat Jun 26 00:34:58 GMT 1999 Date: 26 Jun 99 01:34:58 BST From: Francis Jordan To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: building thread-safe Xlibs Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can anyone please give me some clues as to how to build X with thread sup= port enabled. I think the right way to do it is to add the relevant options t= o config/cf/FreeBSD.cf, something like #define HasPosixThreads YES #define ThreadedX YES #define ThreadsLibraries -pthread /* (or should it be -lc_r ? */ #define SystemMTDefines -D_REENTRANT /* required ??? */ #define HasThreadSafeAPI NO ^^ --------------------------------- Here's the thing - FreeBSD doesn't seem to have thread-safe interfaces fo= r functions like getpwnam, getpwuid, getpwent (Solaris has getpwnam_r, getpwuid_r, getpwent_r), hence lots of unresolved references. Then there= 's the file xc/include/Xos_r.h which contains definitions of same (basically, pwd.h wrappers) for variou= s = platforms, but not FreeBSD (I guess at the time FreeBSD didn't have threa= ds). = Unfortunately, the wrappers for other platforms are no good, as FreeBSD's= pwd structures are different from everything else. If anyone has gotten the darn thing to compile, could you please send me = the relevant patches? Alternatively, is anyone looking into implementing the= _r API for getpwent? Any help will be much appreciated. Francis ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 18:22:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C52E14C02 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:22:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA68863; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:22:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Aaron Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ufs/ffs resize? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:15:01 PDT." <199906252115.OAA95464@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:22:19 -0700 Message-ID: <68859.930360139@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > to do actually it. Personally, I think it would be a doable > project if someone wanted to have a go at it - to allow a filesystem > to be grown or shrunk on a cylinder-by-cylinder basis. The only real > complexity occurs when you are shrinking a filesystem - you have to locat e > the inodes & indirect blocks associated with allocated data blocks > in the cylinder you are trying to remove in order to move the blocks. To add to this, I'd also be inclined to see this done in the larger context of writing at least a simplistic volume manager to contain arbitrary filesystems, then extending UFS to support the concept of dynamic resizing. That way you could extend (the most common request) a ufs partition much more flexibly across multiple partitions or disks, that being what people are *really* asking for when they cry for a resizable UFS. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 18:41:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 237A315011 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:41:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA83432 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:41:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id TAA45928 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:40:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199906260140.TAA45928@harmony.village.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: CF Ethernet cards Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:40:16 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can anybody recommend a good Type I Compact Flash ethernet card that has a driver for one or more of FreeBSD, NetBSD or OpenBSD? Please note, I'm not asking for a PC Card, PCMCIA, or CardBus. I have a device that has a Type I Compact Flash slot. All the CF Ethernet cards I've seen have shared the following characteristics. 1) They support WinCE 2.0 and newer. 2) The chipset information appears to be unavailable. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 19: 6:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8B91530E for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:06:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA07238; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:36:39 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA14823; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:36:35 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:36:35 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Matthew Dillon , Aaron Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ufs/ffs resize? Message-ID: <19990626113635.Y427@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199906252115.OAA95464@apollo.backplane.com> <68859.930360139@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <68859.930360139@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 06:22:19PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Friday, 25 June 1999 at 18:22:19 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> to do actually it. Personally, I think it would be a doable >> project if someone wanted to have a go at it - to allow a filesystem >> to be grown or shrunk on a cylinder-by-cylinder basis. The only real >> complexity occurs when you are shrinking a filesystem - you have to locate >> the inodes & indirect blocks associated with allocated data blocks >> in the cylinder you are trying to remove in order to move the blocks. > > To add to this, I'd also be inclined to see this done in the larger > context of writing at least a simplistic volume manager to contain > arbitrary filesystems, then extending UFS to support the concept of > dynamic resizing. I agree with the approach. But why write a simplistic volume manager when we already have vinum? > That way you could extend (the most common request) a ufs partition > much more flexibly across multiple partitions or disks, that being > what people are *really* asking for when they cry for a resizable > UFS. :-) Correct. That's why, as Julian observes, I'm collecting code. If somebody else wants to work on this, feel free to contact me. I don't see myself doing it in the very near future. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 21:56:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2891546F for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:56:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xkVN-000Ccw-00; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:55:53 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Aaron Smith Cc: David Malone , Keith Stevenson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:02:00 MST." <199906252002.NAA31761@sigma.veritas.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:55:53 +0200 Message-ID: <48541.930372953@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:02:00 MST, Aaron Smith wrote: > hey, that's a pretty neat feature. i confess i wasn't aware of that. out > of curiosity, can old inetds read this without choking? No, the extension would cause older inetd's to barf. > agreed; what i was trying to get at is the mental difference in dealing > with it. i didn't realize there was an extension already in place -- i > should have checked the man page over when i saw sheldon's first message > about "wait/10/10/nowrap". There isn't. It's a proposed extension that might happen soon. :-) > in order to make this compatible won't one have to specify the not-so-pretty > "wait/0/0/nowrap"? i guess "wait/nowrap" could be made to work. that's less > ugly. Actually, any of the following ought to work: wait/nowrap wait/10/nowrap wait/10/10/nowrap wait/nowrap/10 wait/10/nowrap/10 As well as the previous permutations available. We're lucky because "nowrap" isn't a number, so it can't be confused with a request to set max_child nor max_cpm. > i am less bothered by this change given the maxchild precedent, if there > are definitely people who will *use* this. if people don't actually use it, > it will just become a chunk of legacy extra-complexity. I think you may have as many as two people using it. :-\ > all: sorry if i came off too strident. i have a sore spot for feeping > creaturism. :) Don't be sorry. It's about time people started articulating my rebuttal. ;-) I don't think the core team would care enough about something this silly to bother making a decision, so I'm just watching what people have to say. I'm leaning toward leaving the "nowrap" feature out. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 22:56:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from www0i.netaddress.usa.net (www0i.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E090814FEC for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 6979 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jun 1999 05:56:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990626055629.6978.qmail@www0i.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.38 by www0i via web-mailer(M3.2.0.17) on Sat Jun 26 05:56:29 GMT 1999 Date: 25 Jun 99 22:56:29 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Subject: Re: [Re: coarse vs fine-grained locking in SMP systems] Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ville-Pertti Keinonen wrote: > mo@servo.ccr.org (Mike O'Dell) writes: > > we published the best Unix SMP paper I've ever seen in Computing > > Systems - from the Amdahl guys who did an SMP version of the kernel > > by very clever hacks on SPLx() macros to make them spin locks and > > a bit of other clever trickery on the source. they could take a stoc= k > = > An approach like that can't possibly be sufficient if code has been > written with the assumption that only interrupt-like events or > blocking calls can change things from under it. There is quite a bit > of code in FreeBSD that relies on this. > = Can you elaborate on this a bit more? I think I missing some of the finer points on what you are saying. I work on interrupt driven device drivers and I'm trying to see how this ties in. --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 23:21: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BE81512B for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:21:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA46192; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:20:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian F. Feldman" X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Mike Smith Cc: Dan Seguin , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Connect and so on.. In-Reply-To: <199906251647.JAA03265@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > static struct sockaddr_in servaddr; > > > > > > This needs to be a valid structure in USER space, not kernel. > > > > OK. I suspected as much. Question is: how do I open a connection from > > KERNEL space? > > You don't. > > If you're really desperate to do this, you'll have to patch _all_ of > the system calls to work out whether they're being called from the > kernel or from userspace. > > There's actually a lot of utility in this, as it makes calling them > easier from ABI modules as well. If you're looking for a nice, > relatively easy FreeBSD hacking project, there's one right there. Another argument to the syscall format... I remember we took the retval away (stuck it in proc) and now we could replace it with that. That's beside the point. He doesn't need to initiate the connection in userland, just pass in the context (user-space sockaddr_in) for it to use. The other mistake is he thinks this will make the whole thing atomic... I'm not so sure about that one. > > -- > \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith > \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@FreeBSD.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 25 23:54:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6585C151FE for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:54:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA69543; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:53:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Matthew Dillon , Aaron Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ufs/ffs resize? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:36:35 +0930." <19990626113635.Y427@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:53:50 -0700 Message-ID: <69539.930380030@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I agree with the approach. But why write a simplistic volume manager > when we already have vinum? vinum is far from simplistic, but I suppose it might also do. :) Still, it would someday be nice if you could use vinum as the very powerful swiss-army knife that it currently is OR as a dull axe to simply concatenate, ala ccd, n partitions together in some extremely straight-forward fashion. That is to say, instead of having to think about subdisks on plexes on foxes on clockses (sorry Dr. Seuss) when all you wanted to do is whack some space together in a simple and obvious way, you could say something like "vinum -C /dev/wd0s1a /dev/sd1s2 /dev/sd2" in order to concatenate wd0/slice 1/partition a, sd1/all of slice 2, and all of drive sd2 together. vinum would choose the volume name itself and return it, from this it being possible to contrive the device pathname for newfs and mount. One might then logically assume the next step would be trivial insertion and deletion options, like: vinum -i /dev/something volumename to insert a new partition into existing volume volumename and vinum -d /dev/something volumename to delete /dev/something from volumename, assuming that it's found in that volume. I guess while I'm dreaming, you could use -M to also create trivial mirror sets and -i and -d could act on those as well. :) Lest anyone get the wrong idea, let me also hastily note here that I'm not trying to suggest that vinum should shed functionality or become dumbed-down - the current amount of flexibility is good and probably in full accord with "the unix way" insofar as I understand vinum's operation. :) It's also more than a little indimidating to new users, however, many of whom only want to use it for the most simplistic scenarios anyway. Some big dials to go with all the small dials can't hurt, can it? :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 0: 9:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from midget.dons.net.au (daniel.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E8D914CB1 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:09:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darius@dons.net.au) Received: from guppy.dons.net.au (guppy.dons.net.au [203.31.81.9]) by midget.dons.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA24878; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:38:57 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from darius@dons.net.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990626163857:34751=_"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" In-Reply-To: <19990626055629.6978.qmail@www0i.netaddress.usa.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:38:57 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel J. O'Connor" To: Jesus Monroy Subject: Re: [Re: coarse vs fine-grained locking in SMP systems] Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Ville-Pertti Keinonen Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format --_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990626163857:34751=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 26-Jun-99 Jesus Monroy wrote: > > An approach like that can't possibly be sufficient if code has been > > written with the assumption that only interrupt-like events or > > blocking calls can change things from under it. There is quite a bit > > of code in FreeBSD that relies on this. > Can you elaborate on this a bit more? I think I missing > some of the finer points on what you are saying. > > I work on interrupt driven device drivers and I'm trying > to see how this ties in. The reason is that if kernel code is written to not protect against reentrancy then it will have race conditions in SMP. The splXXX() macros are used in drivers to protect against code reentrancy when an interrupt occurs. Usually they are around routines which modify a data structure which can also be modified by the drivers interrupt handler. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum --_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990626163857:34751=_ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBN3R8iWj0TqzKxF7VAQGKtwQAgkwovC3e9dzHCU22qorxqMUADR4B9Znm ENuUYeO+Y/Ge09UEuRYfisnD5rxK9yPCcswFvKPbYvnG04S/DOjXKIARBI8rYd2G WVlZZ1cZM4CH96TA/yXoPuurLlvtEfRi2qGGICnJo8FaVS9twG/fQbiSDIgLx6PH 8Ed7aulFb1U= =VMZP -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990626163857:34751=_-- End of MIME message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 1:59:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nwcst277.netaddress.usa.net (nwcst277.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C11214F3F for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:59:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 25146 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jun 1999 08:59:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19990626085948.25145.qmail@nwcst277.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.22 by nwcst277 via web-mailer(M3.2.0.17) on Sat Jun 26 08:59:48 GMT 1999 Date: 26 Jun 99 01:59:48 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Daniel J.OConnor Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: coarse vs fine-grained locking in SMP systems]] Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Ville-Pertti Keinonen X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Daniel J. O'Connor" wrote: > On 26-Jun-99 Jesus Monroy wrote: > > > An approach like that can't possibly be sufficient if code has been= > > > written with the assumption that only interrupt-like events or > > > blocking calls can change things from under it. There is quite = > > > a bit of code in FreeBSD that relies on this. > > > > > Can you elaborate on this a bit more? I think I missing > > some of the finer points on what you are saying. > > = > > I work on interrupt driven device drivers and I'm trying > > to see how this ties in. > = > = > The reason is that if kernel code is written to not protect against > reentrancy then it will have race conditions in SMP. > = > The splXXX() macros are used in drivers to protect against code = > reentrancy when an interrupt occurs. Usually they are around = > routines which modify a data structure which can also be = > modified by the drivers interrupt handler. > = Still not getting. I'm aware of 'race conditions' and splxxx() macros. I've written and have a working driver under *BSD. = So, I guess I need to ask a more specific question. The statement was made that code would not port easily in a now lost part of the discussion. I agree with that. The part I'm lost on is "can change things from under it". From under what? I assume the statement means "it" as being the code or driver. So the question begs, what things can = change? *..Certainly Hardware interfaces can't change. = *..Buffer, locks and flags should be under it's direct = control, so I see no issues there. *..The code itself will not change. *..Timing and commit issue, beyond immediate buffers are beyond the control of the driver. There is a possiblity that link lists would change and alter data flow, but that is expected. So there is either a mental block going on or I must be missing something obvious. Mind you I'm not trying to start an arguement, just trying to figure out what was said and how it relates to my work. Perhaps it does not relate? = --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 2: 5:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.skylink.it (ns.skylink.it [194.177.113.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AFD414F3F; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:05:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hibma@skylink.it) Received: from heidi.plazza.it (va-161.skylink.it [194.185.55.161]) by ns.skylink.it (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22571; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:05:10 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost.plazza.it [127.0.0.1]) by heidi.plazza.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA00387; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:57:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:57:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@heidi.plazza.it Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Nick LoPresti Cc: freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NIS Question Thanks!! In-Reply-To: <003501bebf39$22a396e0$8c7361cf@dogwood.chromatix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yes. NIS is braindead. The amount of traffic is not that large. The problem you will see is that it takes longer for a prompt to return due to NIS when the network is heavily loaded and latencies rise. When you log in to a Sun box (most often NIS-ified) for example, you will see that it takes ages. When you switch off NIS in /etc/nsswitch.conf you get quite a speedup on this for most cases. Apart from DNS. You will have to replace libresolv.* for getting that without NIS. :-( Solution: Very simple, make every machine a NIS slave server. Works here like a charm across 6 machines (tiny network, I know). Once in a while a machine pops to an external one, but that can be solved easily enough by killing ypbind and restarting it. I have not looked at either memory or disk usage. Hope this helps. Nick > Does NIS support any kind of caching? Or does it go out to the NIS server > every time someone logs in? Is there a way to set something up? After I > start putting most of the systems on this, I imagine that network usage is > going to raise dramatically... > > Thanks for any info you can provide! > > ================================================ > > Nick > nick@chromatix.com > Web Page: http://www.lopresti.dhs.org/users/nick > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- e-Mail: hibma@skylink.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 2:16:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from midget.dons.net.au (daniel.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB66C14FB9 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from guppy.dons.net.au (guppy.dons.net.au [203.31.81.9]) by midget.dons.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA25107; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:44:54 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990626184454:34751=_"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" In-Reply-To: <19990626085948.25145.qmail@nwcst277.netaddress.usa.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:44:54 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel J. O'Connor" To: Jesus Monroy Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: coarse vs fine-grained locking in SMP systems]] Cc: Ville-Pertti Keinonen , hackers@freebsd.org, "Daniel J.OConnor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format --_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990626184454:34751=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 26-Jun-99 Jesus Monroy wrote: > The part I'm lost on is "can change things from under it". > From under what? I assume the statement means "it" as being > the code or driver. So the question begs, what things can > change? The assumption that changes is that your code assumes (well mine does :) that it can only have one processor running at at once for routines like open, read, etc.. So no locking is done to protect those routines. Like what happens if CPU 0 is running your drivers open code, then CPU 1 starts running it (because a user program did an open call) then your driver will be confused because it assumes that the open call is only being executed by one CPU. To protect against it you'd need to grab a mutex when you enter open (or block waiting for the other CPU to release it) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum --_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990626184454:34751=_ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBN3SaDWj0TqzKxF7VAQGsHgP9FcRFdsnAGXJI6rQI+Rt2iiv3HdGfZ3Wq ouzcis2tvBgGambsXrs3GpEY5O4bzFtSzBVR9j2HgEocRjJ9OLy3rq3OTbWE/ZFS Tn91QXgA9hx+uWnwz0iU80apRfwD0uwOELBkeAz7q86U25XcKqbyWCec7vHal6Wm /D8lMsmF8Zg= =3PkF -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --_=XFMail.1.3.p0.FreeBSD:990626184454:34751=_-- End of MIME message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 2:31:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C601914BE9 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:31:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA58840; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:34:11 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:34:11 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: takawata@shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NEWBUS-ifyed ISA-PnP Question. In-Reply-To: <199906251733.CAA12146@libr.scitec.kobe-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 takawata@shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp wrote: > Hi, > > I believe someone working on NEWBUS-ifying ISA-PnP. > How will they implement it? > I think current framework is like this. > +--------+ +--------+ > ...|ISA DEV | |ISA-hint|<-This device provides > +--------+ +--------+ what device is connected > | | | the ISA bus. > ----------ISA-------------- > | > +-------------+ > |Nexus or ISAB| > +-------------+ > > > 1. Is the figure true? > 2.If so,where do they attach ISA-PnP mechanism? > attach it like ISA-hint device,modify ISA Bus code or isapnpbus > other than ISA-Bus? > 3.How do I add ISA-PnP device? > 4.How do I add PnP mechanism other than ISA-PnP. This diagram is correct. The ISA-PnP driver is similar to the ISA-hint driver in that it doesn't probe and attach devices itself but creates devices which other drivers can attach to. I have modified the api between the ISA device enumerators (ISA-hint and ISA-PnP) to allow them to specify a set of resource alternatives and a callback function which can select a single alternative. Other PnP mechanisms should fit into this scheme easily. I had ACPI in mind when I was putting this system together. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 3:25:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B1C14E8A; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 03:25:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id IAA67363; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:28:01 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:28:01 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Chuck Robey Cc: Nik Clayton , Greg Lehey , Mike Smith , Mark Newton , hm@hcs.de, nick.hibma@jrc.it, Doug Rabson , Peter Wemm , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)) Message-ID: <19990626082801.A67145@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990623233357.A43818@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 07:20:56PM -0400 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Chuck, On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 07:20:56PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > But one thing I like is, although FreeBSD *does* try to appease user > demands, it's controlled by programmers, not users, so if something is > a technically extemely evil idea, no matter how the masses yell for it, > it will NOT happen. Programmers need documentation too. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 6:16:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.skylink.it (ns.skylink.it [194.177.113.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD6414EBF; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:16:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hibma@skylink.it) Received: from heidi.plazza.it (va-165.skylink.it [194.185.55.165]) by ns.skylink.it (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27032; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:15:12 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost.plazza.it [127.0.0.1]) by heidi.plazza.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA01036; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:08:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:08:10 +0200 (CEST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@heidi.plazza.it Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Nik Clayton Cc: Chuck Robey , Greg Lehey , Mike Smith , Mark Newton , hm@hcs.de, Doug Rabson , Peter Wemm , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)) In-Reply-To: <19990626082801.A67145@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 07:20:56PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > But one thing I like is, although FreeBSD *does* try to appease user > > demands, it's controlled by programmers, not users, so if something is > > a technically extemely evil idea, no matter how the masses yell for it, > > it will NOT happen. > > Programmers need documentation too. And they are going to scream like mad if there isn't any. But in the end they start reading the code anyway, even if there is docu, because they don't trust anything but their own eyes and brain. It's all documented in C anyway. Nick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 6:50:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D8614EE9; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:50:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vanderh@ecf.toronto.edu) Received: from localhost.nowhere (ppp18372.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.130.52]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08136; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.nowhere (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA60930; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:50:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:50:29 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Nick Hibma Cc: Nik Clayton , Chuck Robey , Greg Lehey , Mike Smith , Mark Newton , hm@hcs.de, Doug Rabson , Peter Wemm , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)) Message-ID: <19990626095029.A60905@mad> References: <19990626082801.A67145@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Nick Hibma on Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 03:08:10PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 03:08:10PM +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: > > And they are going to scream like mad if there isn't any. But in the end > they start reading the code anyway, even if there is docu, because they > don't trust anything but their own eyes and brain. ports system == really really large documentation about ports system == really really large (relatively) Anything else? -- This is my .signature which gets appended to the end of my messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 7:59:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu [136.165.4.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA8914E20 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 07:59:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k.stevenson@louisville.edu) Received: from homer.louisville.edu (ktstev01@homer.louisville.edu [136.165.1.20]) by unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04526 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:59:18 -0400 Received: (from ktstev01@localhost) by homer.louisville.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11466 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990626105956.A11193@homer.louisville.edu> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:59:56 -0400 From: Keith Stevenson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Inetd and wrapping. References: <199906252002.NAA31761@sigma.veritas.com> <48541.930372953@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <48541.930372953@axl.noc.iafrica.com>; from Sheldon Hearn on Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 06:55:53AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 06:55:53AM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > I don't think the core team would care enough about something this silly > to bother making a decision, so I'm just watching what people have to > say. I'm leaning toward leaving the "nowrap" feature out. FWIW, I think that leaving out the nowrap feature would be a very good idea. I'm willing to agree (somewhat grudgingly) that incorporating libwrap is a definite feature improvement, but this conf file change doesn't seem to buy much at all. If a user needs that level of granularity, they can disable libwrap support on the inetd command line and use tcpd. Regards, --Keith Stevenson-- -- Keith Stevenson System Programmer - Data Center Services - University of Louisville k.stevenson@louisville.edu PGP key fingerprint = 4B 29 A8 95 A8 82 EA A2 29 CE 68 DE FC EE B6 A0 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 8:29:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFADD14CED for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id RAA23398 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:15:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02436 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:13:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199906261513.RAA02436@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: panic in 3.2-STABLE / any clues? To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:13:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I left my system to do a make release only to find that it had rebooted while doing the make: There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-freebsd"... (no debugging symbols found)... IdlePTD 3141632 initial pcb at 28e4f4 panicstr: page fault panic messages: --- Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x0 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xc01fbe13 stack pointer = 0x10:0xc6bd5d58 frame pointer = 0x10:0xc6bd5d58 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 92105 (awk) interrupt mask = trap number = 12 panic: page fault syncing disks... 81 79 74 68 51 38 24 1 done dumping to dev 30401, offset 327680 dump 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 --- #0 0xc0159437 in boot () (kgdb) bt #0 0xc0159437 in boot () #1 0xc01596bc in at_shutdown () #2 0xc021ca85 in trap_fatal () #3 0xc021c763 in trap_pfault () #4 0xc021c406 in trap () #5 0xc01fbe13 in vm_map_entry_create () #6 0xc01fc93e in _vm_map_clip_end () #7 0xc01fdc9b in vm_map_delete () #8 0xc01fde51 in vm_map_remove () #9 0xc01ffc79 in vm_mmap () #10 0xc01ff4d1 in mmap () #11 0xc021ccc7 in syscall () #12 0xc0213abc in Xint0x80_syscall () #13 0x180680ae in ?? () #14 0x18066fa2 in ?? () #15 0x18066e7a in ?? () #16 0x18066268 in ?? () (kgdb) # uname -a FreeBSD yedi.iaf.nl 3.2-STABLE FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE #3: Sun Jun 20 19:18:26 CEST 1999 root@yedi.iaf.nl:/usr/freebsd-3.1-stable-src/src/sys/compile/YEDI i386 Any obvious clues? Wilko -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 8:29:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 842D414FD9 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id RAA23396; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:15:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA98821; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:45:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199906260945.LAA98821@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: from Matthew Jacob at "Jun 25, 1999 2:38: 4 pm" To: mjacob@feral.com Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:45:36 +0200 (CEST) Cc: justin@apple.com, tech-kern@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > > Yes, you want the WWN to stay constant. That doesn't mean it should > necessarily be the same physical box. Nor does it mean it should be a > system that comes with a WWN assigned to by the manufacturer. Manufacturers have to register and 'get' a unique range they can assign to their products. How do you guarantee that your homegrown WWN is really unique? > I think I'm confusing myself and people. I have a WWN. By definition it > should be unique value. All I'm asking for is a kernel function to help me > generate such a thing (despite what Eduardo says). > > > On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > > > > > > > > FYI: The Compaq HSG80 Fibrechannel RAID controllers have their > > > > WWN in NVRAM. One is supposed to get the WWN from a label on the *cabinet* > > > > into the HSG controller. This allows for easy hardware swap in case of > > > > hardware grief. > > > > > > Yes, if you want the WWN to stay constant. > > > > Well, you do. Especially when you are using things like zoning (like > > that Brocade switches can do) or when the host directly ties things to > > the wwn it talks to. E.g. for connection to Sun we use Jaycor adapters > > that allow things like "target=foo lun=bar www="<64bitnumber>" in the > > Solaris /kernel/drv/sd.conf file > > And to boot a Sun over fibre channel, you use the WWN. Well, we currently don't support that, but indeed that is what you would do. Tru64 Unix does something similar. -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 8:39:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF3014BE6 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:39:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA30546; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:39:59 -0700 Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:38:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Wilko Bulte Cc: justin@apple.com, tech-kern@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: <199906260945.LAA98821@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Wilko Bulte wrote: > As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > > > > Yes, you want the WWN to stay constant. That doesn't mean it should > > necessarily be the same physical box. Nor does it mean it should be a > > system that comes with a WWN assigned to by the manufacturer. > > Manufacturers have to register and 'get' a unique range they can assign > to their products. How do you guarantee that your homegrown WWN is > really unique? Witha a value in the top 4 bits that's not one of the currently defined authoritative values. > > > I think I'm confusing myself and people. I have a WWN. By definition it > > should be unique value. All I'm asking for is a kernel function to help me > > generate such a thing (despite what Eduardo says). > > > > > > On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > > As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > > > > > > > > > > FYI: The Compaq HSG80 Fibrechannel RAID controllers have their > > > > > WWN in NVRAM. One is supposed to get the WWN from a label on the *cabinet* > > > > > into the HSG controller. This allows for easy hardware swap in case of > > > > > hardware grief. > > > > > > > > Yes, if you want the WWN to stay constant. > > > > > > Well, you do. Especially when you are using things like zoning (like > > > that Brocade switches can do) or when the host directly ties things to > > > the wwn it talks to. E.g. for connection to Sun we use Jaycor adapters > > > that allow things like "target=foo lun=bar www="<64bitnumber>" in the > > > Solaris /kernel/drv/sd.conf file > > > > And to boot a Sun over fibre channel, you use the WWN. > > Well, we currently don't support that, but indeed that is what you would > do. Tru64 Unix does something similar. You can boot off of fibre channel now- but not using a WWN. I want to see devfs fixed and using WWWs and/or device VPD. -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 9:51: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dezcom.mephi.ru (dezcom.mephi.ru [194.67.76.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 416F914FB1 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:50:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freeman@dezcom.mephi.ru) Received: from kuznet (sevsk [10.3.135.1]) by dezcom.mephi.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA10748 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:52:13 +0400 Message-ID: <000901bebff4$20c41780$0187030a@kuznet.dezcom.mephi.ru> From: "Ilya Kovalev" To: Subject: Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:50:55 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEC015.95BB9F60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEC015.95BB9F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEC015.95BB9F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEC015.95BB9F60-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 10: 2:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from osgroup.com (unknown [38.229.41.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F2014FB1 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:02:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stan@osgroup.com) Received: from stan166 ([38.229.41.237]) by osgroup.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA15171 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:51:19 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 12:03:59 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEBFCB.F95F6F00.stan@osgroup.com> From: Constantine Shkolny Reply-To: "stan@osgroup.com" To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 12:03:59 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, June 26, 1999 8:08 AM, Nick Hibma [SMTP:hibma@skylink.it] wrote: > > Programmers need documentation too. > > And they are going to scream like mad if there isn't any. But in the end > they start reading the code anyway, even if there is docu, because they > don't trust anything but their own eyes and brain. > > It's all documented in C anyway. I've come to understanding that lack of documentation is probably one of the factors that keep the system healthy, because it keeps the unskilled people away. I don't know whether it's true but I read in books that reading code is one of the methods to learn programming. Since FreeBSD does ship with source code, docs are not necessary. NT ships with poorly written docs instead, and, that is what kills it all the time, despite of its perfect design that I really like. People write NT drivers without full understanding what is going on, so they destabilize the system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 10:44:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7582814F35 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:44:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id TAA27801; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:32:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA80561; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:42:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199906261642.SAA80561@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: System unique identifier..... In-Reply-To: from Matthew Jacob at "Jun 26, 1999 8:38: 9 am" To: mjacob@feral.com Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:42:14 +0200 (CEST) Cc: justin@apple.com, tech-kern@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > > > On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > > > > > > Yes, you want the WWN to stay constant. That doesn't mean it should > > > necessarily be the same physical box. Nor does it mean it should be a > > > system that comes with a WWN assigned to by the manufacturer. > > > > Manufacturers have to register and 'get' a unique range they can assign > > to their products. How do you guarantee that your homegrown WWN is > > really unique? > > Witha a value in the top 4 bits that's not one of the currently defined > authoritative values. Not waterproof, at least to WW unique. What stops me from inventing exactly the same WWN as you do for your machine? Playing the devils (daemon's?) advocate, I admit.. > > > And to boot a Sun over fibre channel, you use the WWN. > > > > Well, we currently don't support that, but indeed that is what you would > > do. Tru64 Unix does something similar. > > > You can boot off of fibre channel now- but not using a WWN. Well, "we" is Compaq using a HSG80 FC raidbox on a Sun with a Jaycor adapter in the Sun. -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 10:55:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.du.gtn.com (mail.du.gtn.com [194.77.9.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A895614F35 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:55:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (cicely.de [194.231.9.142]) by mail.du.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA26862; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:48:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cicely8.cicely.de (cicely8.cicely.de [10.1.2.10]) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA01639; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:55:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely8.cicely.de (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA37341; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:55:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ticso) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:55:54 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: Aaron Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ufs/ffs resize? Message-ID: <19990626195554.A37269@cicely8.cicely.de> References: <199906252100.OAA31969@sigma.veritas.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199906252100.OAA31969@sigma.veritas.com>; from Aaron Smith on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 02:00:41PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 02:00:41PM -0700, Aaron Smith wrote: > anybody done any work on a utility for growing ufs filesystems? > I wrote one. It is place on ftp://ftp.cosmo-project.de/pub/growfs My tool will grow a UFS filesystem to the current size of the partition. There is still one big problem left when the number of cylindergroups went over a usually 512 align. I hope to free enough time during the next weeks to remove some blocks and add some warnings in this case. With this problem you should check manualy for that condition because it will break the fs in such cases. All bugs should have been documented in the man-page. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 11: 0:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.du.gtn.com (mail.du.gtn.com [194.77.9.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E815714D96 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:00:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (cicely.de [194.231.9.142]) by mail.du.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA27120; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:53:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cicely8.cicely.de (cicely8.cicely.de [10.1.2.10]) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA01650; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:00:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely8.cicely.de (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA37362; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:01:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ticso) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:01:29 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Aaron Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ufs/ffs resize? Message-ID: <19990626200129.B37269@cicely8.cicely.de> References: <199906252100.OAA31969@sigma.veritas.com> <199906252115.OAA95464@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199906252115.OAA95464@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 02:15:01PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 02:15:01PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :anybody done any work on a utility for growing ufs filesystems? > : > :aaron > > It has been brought up a couple of times but nobody has tried > to do actually it. Personally, I think it would be a doable > project if someone wanted to have a go at it - to allow a filesystem > to be grown or shrunk on a cylinder-by-cylinder basis. The only real > complexity occurs when you are shrinking a filesystem - you have to locate > the inodes & indirect blocks associated with allocated data blocks > in the cylinder you are trying to remove in order to move the blocks. Thats a point you still have to do if you grow a fs - but you don't need to relocate inode but only data-blocks. That's because each cg has a summary information of some bytes which are duplicated at the beginning of the fs in the first cg. In some cases you will need one or more additional blocks in the first cg. unfortunately these are garantied to allocated in case of the first use for the /-dir. Depeneding on what Kirk McKusik wrote this summary information must be of full size. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 16:23:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A05215231 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:23:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id BAA29563 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 01:23:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 8F30F8836; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:35:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:35:54 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ufs/ffs resize? Message-ID: <19990627003554.A25754@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199906252100.OAA31969@sigma.veritas.com> <19990626195554.A37269@cicely8.cicely.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990626195554.A37269@cicely8.cicely.de>; from Bernd Walter on Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 07:55:54PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5423 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Bernd Walter: > I wrote one. > It is place on ftp://ftp.cosmo-project.de/pub/growfs > My tool will grow a UFS filesystem to the current size of the partition. Another datapoint ot consider, it seems that Linux (at least the derivative version maintained by Alan Cox -- the other one :) ) has now grown an LVM system (probably à la HP or AIX). That's what I've been told yesterday during a small conference about Linux and free software in France (and where I did a talk about FreeBSD *grin*). I think one of the difficulty of growing a FS is that you have to choose whether you need the FS to be contiguous or not. The latter case makes it much more difficult... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #71: Sun May 9 20:16:32 CEST 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 17: 1:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC1214CE0 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:01:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA10888; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:31:26 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA81771; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:31:25 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:31:24 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Constantine Shkolny Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: All this and documentation too? (was: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c))) Message-ID: <19990627093124.N427@freebie.lemis.com> References: <01BEBFCB.F95F6F00.stan@osgroup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <01BEBFCB.F95F6F00.stan@osgroup.com>; from Constantine Shkolny on Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 12:03:59PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 26 June 1999 at 12:03:59 -0500, Constantine Shkolny wrote: > On Saturday, June 26, 1999 8:08 AM, Nick Hibma [SMTP:hibma@skylink.it] > wrote: >>> Programmers need documentation too. >> >> And they are going to scream like mad if there isn't any. But in the end >> they start reading the code anyway, even if there is docu, because they >> don't trust anything but their own eyes and brain. >> >> It's all documented in C anyway. > > I've come to understanding that lack of documentation is probably one of > the factors that keep the system healthy, because it keeps the unskilled > people away. I don't know whether it's true but I read in books that > reading code is one of the methods to learn programming. Since FreeBSD > does ship with source code, docs are not necessary. NT ships with poorly > written docs instead, and, that is what kills it all the time, despite of > its perfect design that I really like. People write NT drivers without > full understanding what is going on, so they destabilize the system. I can't agree with this theory. Lack of documentation just moves the degree of skill needed to, for example, write device drivers. Document less well and your average device driver writer will write a worse driver, with or without source code access. Source code access helps too, of course. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 17: 3:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3A8914CE0 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:03:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA10906; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:33:45 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA81795; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:33:45 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:33:45 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Ollivier Robert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Volume managers (was: ufs/ffs resize?) Message-ID: <19990627093345.O427@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199906252100.OAA31969@sigma.veritas.com> <19990626195554.A37269@cicely8.cicely.de> <19990627003554.A25754@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990627003554.A25754@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 12:35:54AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 27 June 1999 at 0:35:54 +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Bernd Walter: >> I wrote one. >> It is place on ftp://ftp.cosmo-project.de/pub/growfs >> My tool will grow a UFS filesystem to the current size of the partition. > > Another datapoint ot consider, it seems that Linux (at least the > derivative version maintained by Alan Cox -- the other one :) ) has > now grown an LVM system (probably à la HP or AIX). That's what I've > been told yesterday during a small conference about Linux and free > software in France (and where I did a talk about FreeBSD *grin*). Interesting. If you find any pointers, I'd like to take a look. Looks like this is a case where Linux is following FreeBSD :-) > I think one of the difficulty of growing a FS is that you have to > choose whether you need the FS to be contiguous or not. The latter > case makes it much more difficult... Why shouldn't it be contiguous? That's what the volume manager's there for. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 18:13: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu [136.165.4.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9042414C12 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:13:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k.stevenson@louisville.edu) Received: from homer.louisville.edu (ktstev01@homer.louisville.edu [136.165.1.20]) by unix2.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29642 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:12:22 -0400 Received: (from ktstev01@localhost) by homer.louisville.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15777 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990626211259.B15044@homer.louisville.edu> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:12:59 -0400 From: Keith Stevenson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ufs/ffs resize? References: <199906252100.OAA31969@sigma.veritas.com> <19990626195554.A37269@cicely8.cicely.de> <19990627003554.A25754@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990627003554.A25754@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 12:35:54AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 12:35:54AM +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > Another datapoint ot consider, it seems that Linux (at least the derivative > version maintained by Alan Cox -- the other one :) ) has now grown an LVM > system (probably à la HP or AIX). That's what I've been told yesterday during > a small conference about Linux and free software in France (and where I did a > talk about FreeBSD *grin*). Hmmm. It might be from SGI. SGI has donated XFS to Linux and is actively marketing it on their Intel based systems. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,36807,00.html?st.ne.fd.tohhed.ni Regards, --Keith Stevenson-- -- Keith Stevenson System Programmer - Data Center Services - University of Louisville k.stevenson@louisville.edu PGP key fingerprint = 4B 29 A8 95 A8 82 EA A2 29 CE 68 DE FC EE B6 A0 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 18:41:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from emu.sourcee.com (emu.sourcee.com [205.181.251.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E228514D30 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:41:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nrice@emu.sourcee.com) Received: (from nrice@localhost) by emu.sourcee.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA26836; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:40:34 -0400 From: "Norman C. Rice" To: Greg Lehey Cc: Ollivier Robert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Volume managers (was: ufs/ffs resize?) Message-ID: <19990626214034.B26099@emu.sourcee.com> References: <199906252100.OAA31969@sigma.veritas.com> <19990626195554.A37269@cicely8.cicely.de> <19990627003554.A25754@keltia.freenix.fr> <19990627093345.O427@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990627093345.O427@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 09:33:45AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 09:33:45AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sunday, 27 June 1999 at 0:35:54 +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > According to Bernd Walter: > >> I wrote one. > >> It is place on ftp://ftp.cosmo-project.de/pub/growfs > >> My tool will grow a UFS filesystem to the current size of the partition. > > > > Another datapoint ot consider, it seems that Linux (at least the > > derivative version maintained by Alan Cox -- the other one :) ) has > > now grown an LVM system (probably à la HP or AIX). That's what I've > > been told yesterday during a small conference about Linux and free > > software in France (and where I did a talk about FreeBSD *grin*). > > Interesting. If you find any pointers, I'd like to take a look. http://linux.msede.com/lvm/ -- Regards, Norman C. Rice, Jr. > Looks like this is a case where Linux is following FreeBSD :-) > > > I think one of the difficulty of growing a FS is that you have to > > choose whether you need the FS to be contiguous or not. The latter > > case makes it much more difficult... > > Why shouldn't it be contiguous? That's what the volume manager's > there for. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 19:44:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4EEE14C18 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:44:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA88050; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:44:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id UAA07743; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199906270242.UAA07743@harmony.village.org> To: Matthew Hunt Subject: Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...) Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:47:35 PDT." <19990624114734.A96181@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990624114734.A96181@wopr.caltech.edu> <19990624184216.U17353@space.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:42:20 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19990624114734.A96181@wopr.caltech.edu> Matthew Hunt writes: : Security holes are rarely in the kernel, and you can easily keep your : applications up-to-date without rebooting. And the ones that re in the kernel tend to be DoS type problems that force a reboot anyway :-( Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 20:34: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D762C14CF0 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:33:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA15452 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:22:03 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:22:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Implementation of mmap() in FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From the source code of mmap(), it seems to me that FreeBSD can not handle mmap() when the specified file range [offset, offset + length] does not align with memory page boundary. The mmap() automatically enlarges the mapped area on BOTH ends of the given range to a page boundary. In the following figure, the two X areas are not specified by the user, they are included because we do rounding on both ends. +---+----------+---------+-----+ | X | | | X | +---+----------+---------+-----+ ^ ^ ^ | | | page boundary page boundary page boundary Then a problem is what will happen if I read/write at the areas marked as X? What will happen if I write into the area marked by the right X and that area lies beyond the end of the file? According to the book by W. Richard Stevens, if we write to the area marked by the right X, the changes should not be reflected in the file (or expand the file). All these situations seem to me are not handled by FreeBSD mmap() code. I hope I am wrong. I also wonder why we can not add some information to the backing object, so that we can handle these situations. If these problems do exist, how hard it is to fix them? Any help or hint is appreciated. -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 21:27:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39AA814C20 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:27:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA11915; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 13:57:43 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA86262; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 13:57:36 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 13:57:36 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Matthew Dillon , Aaron Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Simplifying Vinum (was: ufs/ffs resize?) Message-ID: <19990627135736.F427@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990626113635.Y427@freebie.lemis.com> <69539.930380030@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <69539.930380030@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 11:53:50PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 25 June 1999 at 23:53:50 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> I agree with the approach. But why write a simplistic volume manager >> when we already have vinum? > > vinum is far from simplistic, but I suppose it might also do. :) > > Still, it would someday be nice if you could use vinum as the very > powerful swiss-army knife that it currently is OR as a dull axe to > simply concatenate, ala ccd, n partitions together in some extremely > straight-forward fashion. That is to say, instead of having to think > about subdisks on plexes on foxes on clockses (sorry Dr. Seuss) when all > you wanted to do is whack some space together in a simple and obvious way, > you could say something like "vinum -C /dev/wd0s1a /dev/sd1s2 /dev/sd2" > in order to concatenate wd0/slice 1/partition a, sd1/all of slice 2, > and all of drive sd2 together. vinum would choose the volume name itself > and return it, from this it being possible to contrive the device pathname > for newfs and mount. Well, that's an interesting viewpoint. It's not Vinum, of course, that we need to change, just the control program. > One might then logically assume the next step would be trivial insertion > and deletion options, like: > > vinum -i /dev/something volumename > > to insert a new partition into existing volume volumename and > > vinum -d /dev/something volumename > > to delete /dev/something from volumename, assuming that it's found > in that volume. I guess while I'm dreaming, you could use -M to > also create trivial mirror sets and -i and -d could act on those > as well. :) I think you'll find, once you get that far, that things are anything but trivial. I'm certainly open to suggestions, but consider: vinum -i /dev/something volumename Where does it insert it? What if the volume has more than one plex, which it will in the case of a mirror? I'm not saying that this can't be done, but one of the reasons for the relatively formal way that Vinum does things is precisely to make it more difficult to make misassumptions. > Lest anyone get the wrong idea, let me also hastily note here that I'm > not trying to suggest that vinum should shed functionality or become > dumbed-down - the current amount of flexibility is good and probably > in full accord with "the unix way" insofar as I understand vinum's > operation. :) Yes, I think I understand that relatively well. > It's also more than a little indimidating to new users, however, > many of whom only want to use it for the most simplistic scenarios > anyway. Some big dials to go with all the small dials can't hurt, > can it? :) Not if they're done well. I'm open to suggestions. Here are couple of possibilities: add commands "cat", "stripe" and "mirror": vinum cat /dev/da1h /dev/da2h vinum stripe /dev/da1h /dev/da2h /dev/da3h /dev/da4h vinum mirror /dev/da1h /dev/da2h vinum mirror /dev/da1h /dev/da2h /dev/da3h /dev/da4h The first one would take the drives and create a concatenated volume out of them. The second would do the same thing but make a striped volume. The third would make a simple concatenated mirror, and the fourth... yes, what about the fourth? Four plexes, each of one volume? Two plexes, each concatenating two drives? You tell me. And what about the names? It seems tacky to have to write down the name that Vinum chooses. How about adding a name parameter, either implicitly or explicitly? For example, vinum cat myvol /dev/da1h /dev/da2h vinum cat -n myvol /dev/da1h /dev/da2h Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 21:41:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE12014DC7 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:41:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA09854; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:41:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:41:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906270441.VAA09854@apollo.backplane.com> To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Implementation of mmap() in FreeBSD References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is how mmap() is supposed to work. mmap() may return an area larger then the one you specified due to page-alignment considerations. It is not legal for you to write in an area which is outside the range you specified, but there is no way for the machine to enforce this except on page boundries. Any writes you do within the page boundry, but outside the range you specified in the mmap() call, but inside the bounds of the file, will probably end up in the file. -Matt :>From the source code of mmap(), it seems to me that FreeBSD can not handle :mmap() when the specified file range [offset, offset + length] does not :align with memory page boundary. The mmap() automatically enlarges the :mapped area on BOTH ends of the given range to a page boundary. In the :following figure, the two X areas are not specified by the user, they are :included because we do rounding on both ends. : : +---+----------+---------+-----+ : | X | | | X | : +---+----------+---------+-----+ : ^ ^ ^ : | | | : page boundary page boundary page boundary : :Then a problem is what will happen if I read/write at the areas marked as :X? What will happen if I write into the area marked by the right X and :that area lies beyond the end of the file? According to the book by :W. Richard Stevens, if we write to the area marked by the right X, the :changes should not be reflected in the file (or expand the file). :... : :All these situations seem to me are not handled by FreeBSD mmap() code. I :hope I am wrong. I also wonder why we can not add some information to the No machine's mmap() code handles these situations. It is a side effect of the way MMU's work and the way mmap() was defined - that is, in order for mmap() to be reasonably optimal it has to munge the boundry conditions. It is an explicitly allowed case. :Any help or hint is appreciated. : :-------------------------------------------------- :Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org :-------------------------------------------------- -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 22:10:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C7C14C86 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20569; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:09:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3775B229.C3981D1D@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:10:01 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jesus Monroy Cc: Ville-Pertti Keinonen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Re: coarse vs fine-grained locking in SMP systems] References: <19990626055629.6978.qmail@www0i.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jesus Monroy wrote: > > Ville-Pertti Keinonen wrote: > > mo@servo.ccr.org (Mike O'Dell) writes: > > > we published the best Unix SMP paper I've ever seen in Computing > > > Systems - from the Amdahl guys who did an SMP version of the kernel > > > by very clever hacks on SPLx() macros to make them spin locks and > > > a bit of other clever trickery on the source. they could take a stock > > > > An approach like that can't possibly be sufficient if code has been > > written with the assumption that only interrupt-like events or > > blocking calls can change things from under it. There is quite a bit > > of code in FreeBSD that relies on this. > > > Can you elaborate on this a bit more? I think I missing > some of the finer points on what you are saying. > > I work on interrupt driven device drivers and I'm trying > to see how this ties in. Here's a good example. It's from a different system that uses a modified BSD TCP/IP stack, but the example still holds. This system keeps a linked list of network interfaces. A periodic timer callback goes through this list to handle timeout issues for the IP stack. The timer routine didn't bother to acquire the semaphore protecting the list of network interfaces. When we moved the code to an SMP system, it would occasionally (as in once or twice a year across the entire customer base) crash with a null pointer in the list of network interfaces. The timer routine was being preempted by a higher-prioty user interface task removing a network interface. The timer would run off an invalid pointer and crash the system. This never happened on the single-processor system because the timer ran in timer context, which is not interruptable by a normal process regardless of the priority, but had failed to protect itself from a normal process on the other CPU. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 26 22:21:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8BA514A2F; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20608; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:21:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3775B4C4.82528C26@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:21:08 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francis Jordan Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: building thread-safe Xlibs References: <19990626003458.26580.qmail@ww185.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Francis Jordan wrote: > > Can anyone please give me some clues as to how to build X with thread support > enabled. I think the right way to do it is to add the relevant options to > config/cf/FreeBSD.cf, something like > > #define HasPosixThreads YES > #define ThreadedX YES > #define ThreadsLibraries -pthread /* (or should it be -lc_r ? */ > #define SystemMTDefines -D_REENTRANT /* required ??? */ > #define HasThreadSafeAPI NO > ^^ > --------------------------------- > > Here's the thing - FreeBSD doesn't seem to have thread-safe interfaces for > functions like getpwnam, getpwuid, getpwent (Solaris has getpwnam_r, > getpwuid_r, getpwent_r), hence lots of unresolved references. Then there's > the file > > xc/include/Xos_r.h > > which contains definitions of same (basically, pwd.h wrappers) for various > platforms, but not FreeBSD (I guess at the time FreeBSD didn't have threads). > Unfortunately, the wrappers for other platforms are no good, as FreeBSD's pwd > structures are different from everything else. > > If anyone has gotten the darn thing to compile, could you please send me the > relevant patches? Alternatively, is anyone looking into implementing the _r > API for getpwent? Yes, but I've been putting the getpwent_r routines off until last because they are going to be nasty. Locking access to a dbm database doesn't look good, so we may have to change to the newlib version of dbm in order to support them. This probably wouldn't happen until 4.0, and I'd have to come up with a binary file coverter, unless the newlib version already does that. Ick! ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message