From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 1:34:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from epsilon.lucida.qc.ca (epsilon.lucida.qc.ca [216.95.146.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E6C837BD05 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 01:34:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matt@ARPA.MAIL.NET) Received: (qmail 17990 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Jun 2000 08:34:21 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Jun 2000 08:34:21 -0000 Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 04:34:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Matt Heckaman X-Sender: matt@epsilon.lucida.qc.ca To: FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: FreeBSD/Solaris Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Rating: localhost 1.6.2 0/1000/N Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Disclaimer: I do NOT want to start an OS holy war. I had a guy tonight tell me he's putting Solaris on his SMP x86 server because "it has far less exploits in the last 5 years than FreeBSD and that FreeBSD 'does not announce their security holes'" Now, I don't believe this and was ahem, offended to say the least. My quesiton is, does anyone have any hard statistics on matters like this. I would like to have something well thought out to present to him. Opinions? PLEASE do not make a flame/holy war out of this post. I just want to know the facts on if there are any good stats and comparisons out there for me to reference. Matt Heckaman matt@arpa.mail.net http://www.lucida.qc.ca -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (FreeBSD) Comment: http://www.lucida.qc.ca/pgp iD8DBQE5OhSMdMMtMcA1U5ARAhLQAKDSNBINp4/IJCBshye9pCHvXeQXuQCgyJiv fRvTpjcKiz18e91mA/9ePic= =ZmXZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 1:41:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA03237B88E for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 01:41:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e548fkf08034; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 01:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 01:41:46 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Matt Heckaman Cc: FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris Message-ID: <20000604014145.A17973@fw.wintelcom.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from matt@ARPA.MAIL.NET on Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 04:34:19AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Matt Heckaman [000604 01:34] wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Disclaimer: I do NOT want to start an OS holy war. > > I had a guy tonight tell me he's putting Solaris on his SMP x86 server > because "it has far less exploits in the last 5 years than FreeBSD and > that FreeBSD 'does not announce their security holes'" A search on rootshell.com shows _55_ exploits for solaris and only 15 for FreeBSD. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 1:52:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from epsilon.lucida.qc.ca (epsilon.lucida.qc.ca [216.95.146.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DA94137BD3E for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 01:52:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matt@ARPA.MAIL.NET) Received: (qmail 18592 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Jun 2000 08:52:44 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Jun 2000 08:52:44 -0000 Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 04:52:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Matt Heckaman X-Sender: matt@epsilon.lucida.qc.ca To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris In-Reply-To: <20000604014145.A17973@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Rating: localhost 1.6.2 0/1000/N Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 4 Jun 2000, Alfred Perlstein wrote: ... : A search on rootshell.com shows _55_ exploits for solaris and only : 15 for FreeBSD. Yes, I saw that. The FreeBSD advisory directory contains 58 advisories, alot are DoS attacks though that bit everyone. These are both facts I mentioned and got the reply from him that "FreeBSD doesn't announce all their security problems, it's just a PR game." bah! I think he just can't believe that an OS doesn't have alot of security exploits :) : -- : -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] : "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." Matt Heckaman matt@arpa.mail.net http://www.lucida.qc.ca -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (FreeBSD) Comment: http://www.lucida.qc.ca/pgp iD8DBQE5OhjbdMMtMcA1U5ARAtmDAJ4nGUgMx2GfRUXtpE2Io8URMnzJ1gCgro27 0qBHml0uXvLnnZ0wfDUzxDQ= =CWpZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 2: 1: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8A6E37B560 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 02:01:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e54912u08571; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 02:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 02:01:01 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Matt Heckaman Cc: FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris Message-ID: <20000604020101.B17973@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20000604014145.A17973@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from matt@ARPA.MAIL.NET on Sun, Jun 04, 2000 at 04:52:42AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Matt Heckaman [000604 01:52] wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sun, 4 Jun 2000, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > ... > : A search on rootshell.com shows _55_ exploits for solaris and only > : 15 for FreeBSD. > > Yes, I saw that. The FreeBSD advisory directory contains 58 advisories, > alot are DoS attacks though that bit everyone. These are both facts I > mentioned and got the reply from him that "FreeBSD doesn't announce all > their security problems, it's just a PR game." bah! I think he just can't > believe that an OS doesn't have alot of security exploits :) In fact there's been a bunch of recent security advisories mistakenly attributed to FreeBSD when they are really third party programs which are _not_ bundled with the base system. The recent massive DDoS attacks on yahoo, ebay and other internet giants were attributed to specific vulnerabilities in solaris programs. You shouldn't waste your time on this guy, he's obviously (obliviously?) already made up his mind. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 2: 4:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from alpha.root-servers.ch (alpha.root-servers.ch [195.49.62.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DECEE37B560 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 02:04:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gabriel_ambuehl@buz.ch) Received: (qmail 742 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2000 09:06:13 -0000 Received: from client99-59.hispeed.ch (62.2.99.59) by ns1.root-servers.ch with SMTP; 4 Jun 2000 09:06:13 -0000 Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 11:05:25 +0200 From: Gabriel Ambuehl X-Mailer: The Bat! (1.42) Business Organization: BUZ Internet Services X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <160258541573.20000604110525@buz.ch> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re[4]: Two new non-US CD distributions of FreeBSD spotted In-reply-To: <21795.960070598@localhost> References: <21795.960070598@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, it's also my hope that we'll be able to work with Lehmanns in > the future to close the gap since neither extreme is really what the > customers want. You would, I think, most ideally want a timely > product without oversea shipping charges at all, right? I'm going Yes. We wouldn't mind the oversea charges so much but DHL always requires us to pay 25 SFr. for their handling as well what we consider to be just annoying regarding the fact that we already paid 24$ for shipping and handling. > to do my best to make that happen, and now that we actually have a VP > of European operations (based in the UK), I certainly hope that a lot > more progress will be made on this issue. Ok. That would be nice. OTOH, the next time we aren't in as great hurry as we was when we needed the 4.0 cds as it's now possibe to just keep up with CVSup. The CDs are now just some kind of convenience stuff saving us from CVSupping half the release *g*. Best regards, Gabriel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 2: 9:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from epsilon.lucida.qc.ca (epsilon.lucida.qc.ca [216.95.146.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 20A8C37BF48 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 02:09:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matt@ARPA.MAIL.NET) Received: (qmail 19915 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Jun 2000 09:09:15 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Jun 2000 09:09:15 -0000 Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 05:09:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Matt Heckaman X-Sender: matt@epsilon.lucida.qc.ca To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris In-Reply-To: <20000604020101.B17973@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Rating: localhost 1.6.2 0/1000/N Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 4 Jun 2000, Alfred Perlstein wrote: [...] : You shouldn't waste your time on this guy, he's obviously (obliviously?) : already made up his mind. Yeah, you're right. I just hate to see my friends so misguided :( : -- : -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] : "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." Matt Heckaman matt@arpa.mail.net http://www.lucida.qc.ca -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (FreeBSD) Comment: http://www.lucida.qc.ca/pgp iD8DBQE5Ohy6dMMtMcA1U5ARAs3XAJ90kunU8RxES5/A2XiROBngnOwWCACfaBXE 3q73cgpuhCw7pT8w7PznJWU= =Gi+E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 2:33:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2113E37B583 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 02:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA87374; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 02:33:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Matt Heckaman Cc: FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jun 2000 04:34:19 EDT." Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 02:33:45 -0700 Message-ID: <87371.960111225@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I had a guy tonight tell me he's putting Solaris on his SMP x86 server > because "it has far less exploits in the last 5 years than FreeBSD and > that FreeBSD 'does not announce their security holes'" I think this is a rather unsupportable statement and would be very curious to know where this guy gets his statistics from. Remember, as the guy making such broad claims, it's up to him to cite his sources and support his assertions, not the other way around. Being required to accept such statements without supporting evidence makes you equally susceptible to claims that Elvis wrote 73% of the kernel while "channeling" through several members of the CSRG and it's up to you to prove otherwise if you want to dispute the point. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 2:45:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EC4337B592 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 02:45:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tim@futuresouth.com) Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA17265 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 04:45:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 04:45:09 -0500 From: Tim Tsai To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: [gketell@juniper.net: Re: Juniper M160 vs. Cisco 12000 vs. other vendors] Message-ID: <20000604044509.A16990@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="AhhlLboLdkugWU4S" X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --AhhlLboLdkugWU4S Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You guys might enjoy the tid-bit about FreeBSD here. Tim --AhhlLboLdkugWU4S Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from wormwood.pobox.com (wormwood.pobox.com [208.210.124.20]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18152 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:34:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from inet-access.net (inet-access.net [207.8.186.50]) by wormwood.pobox.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AEC9864C76 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12233 invoked by uid 108); 2 Jun 2000 21:39:29 -0000 Delivered-To: list@inet-access.net Message-Id: <4.3.2.20000602141250.00cce320@localhost> X-Sender: gketell@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:25:24 -0700 To: list@inet-access.net From: Greg Ketell Subject: Re: Juniper M160 vs. Cisco 12000 vs. other vendors In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-list@inet-access.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: list@inet-access.net At 12:04 PM 6/2/00 -0700, you wrote: >At 8:09 AM 6/2/2000, Greg Ketell wrote: > >Why are you so negative on Juniper? > >sorry if i may have hit any nerves; Not really. But it was reminding me of a similar discussion with a Cisco GSR PM I got finageled into at a recent NANOG. >this isn't personal..the topic does >seem to have a debate team sound to it :) Debates are often best for enlightening the listeners. Participants may not change their mind but the listeners get to. (;->) >(if i were to suddenly change hats, i'd mention something like "juniper >never seems to mention 'code bloat' ") We try not to bash publicly. >if juniper is good on it's own merit, why do they have to mention the >engineering team is composed of ex cisco employees? (rhetorical) (serious answer) the reality is that to be able to write protocols that work for Internet scale you have to have been writing protocols for Internet scale. Trying to take someone out of school who knows the theory and have them write your code just doesn't work. (Ask the Terabit companies.) Sooo Juniper swiped those who had already been doing it and gave them the opportunity to "write it the way you think it should be done". Juniper calls it the Internet Classroom. You have to be in the Internet to learn the quirks of trying to handle millions of users, hundreds of thousands or routes. We weren't there; we hired those who were. New startups have to try to do the same or they will not be able to have protocols that can handle the Internet well enough to get into the classroom to learn more. >also, i was under the impression that cisco code trains are customer >driven True. But they have far fewer Internet customer than Enterprise customers. So, how useful are those features to you. >is freebsd really running inside the m160 router? Grey area. Back in 1996 the first development platform started out as FreeBSD. Since then just about everything has been completely rewritten. Way down deep surrounded by Juniper enhancements you can find what used to be (and still acts a lot like) the FreeBSD kernel. >which vendor has more knobs? More? Cisco. More useful? That is for you guys (our mutual customers) to decide. >taste great, less filling..err..better mousetrap, less mice.. (;->) >thanks again for all the juniper info Any time. GK - Send 'unsubscribe' in the body to 'list-request@inet-access.net' to leave. Eat sushi frequently. inet@inet-access.net is the human contact address. --AhhlLboLdkugWU4S-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 8:51:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F81537B80D for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 08:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p23-dn01kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [211.0.245.24]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id AAA06381; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 00:50:57 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <393A78A9.4BDA52BB@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 00:41:29 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Heckaman Cc: Alfred Perlstein , FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Heckaman wrote: > > : A search on rootshell.com shows _55_ exploits for solaris and only > : 15 for FreeBSD. > > Yes, I saw that. The FreeBSD advisory directory contains 58 advisories, > alot are DoS attacks though that bit everyone. These are both facts I > mentioned and got the reply from him that "FreeBSD doesn't announce all > their security problems, it's just a PR game." bah! I think he just can't > believe that an OS doesn't have alot of security exploits :) We have the source code available, and the *HISTORY* to the source code available. Every single change in the source code has attached to it an explanation why that change was done. This is publicly available, and, in fact, http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ will give you this on the web. Add to that, every time someone commits one of those changes, a message is sent to an open subscription mailing list informing which files where changed, in which branch, how many lines in each file, and with the above-mentioned explanation. If the explanation is too obscure, anyone is free to reply to it asking for clarification, something that actually happens every now and then. I _think_ we also keep archives for that list, so that anyone can check it out too. So, let's see what could be happening: 1. We find security holes, do not report them to anyone, and do not fix them so no one will notice we had them in first place. Not likely. Either others would find them, and then you'd see hacker tools to exploit them, see them appear on bugtrack or rootshell, or no one ever finds them (which implies we are safe anyway :). 2. We find security holes, do not report them ot anyone, and fix them quietly. OpenBSD has been accused of doing that, actually. :-) But given the way we advertise all our changes, and the fact that they are available for anyone to see at any time, the *whole* history, isn't it a bit unlikely that no one has ever caught us doing it? And, as a matter of fact, if we _were_ doing that, wouldn't it make sense _not_ to make all this change logs available for anyone to see? Like, for instance, Solaris? :-) I mean, it would mean we are not only sneaky and sly, but very dumb too. And, still, no one has caught us at it! :-) 3. We find security holes, report them, and explain we are fixing them while changing the code. Well, if we *were* doing that, there would be _evidence_ we were doing that, right? Right. If you go look at or cvs log, you will find instances were a change is said to being made to fix security holes. Last... check out who reported the security holes at bugtrack or rootshell. They usually come from _users_, not developers. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@yet.another.bsdconspiracy.org Hmmm - I have to go check this. My reality assumptions are shattered. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 8:51:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9732C37B6F8 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 08:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p23-dn01kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [211.0.245.24]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id AAA06396; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 00:50:59 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <393A790C.AC486039@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 00:43:08 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Matt Heckaman , FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris References: <87371.960111225@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > I think this is a rather unsupportable statement and would be very > curious to know where this guy gets his statistics from. Remember, as > the guy making such broad claims, it's up to him to cite his sources > and support his assertions, not the other way around. Being required > to accept such statements without supporting evidence makes you > equally susceptible to claims that Elvis wrote 73% of the kernel while > "channeling" through several members of the CSRG and it's up to you to > prove otherwise if you want to dispute the point. :-) I thought we were not supposed to discuss the Elvis thingy in public? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@yet.another.bsdconspiracy.org Hmmm - I have to go check this. My reality assumptions are shattered. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 9:47:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E78A37B806 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 09:47:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@big.endian.de) Received: from neutron.cichlids.com (p3E9C1175.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.156.17.117]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25904; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:47:39 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by neutron.cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70FBAAC30; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:48:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: by cichlids.cichlids.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3985314A9B; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:47:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:47:22 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Two new non-US CD distributions of FreeBSD spotted Message-ID: <20000604184722.A11456@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <200006030120.SAA11166@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200006030120.SAA11166@zippy.cdrom.com>; from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com on Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 06:20:37PM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Jordan K. Hubbard (jkh@zippy.cdrom.com): > in a nice-looking box and the other a 4 CD jewel-case product along > more standard lines from Germany. The Japanese product is from JFYI: There was also an article about that one in a big German PC magazine, and this version is quite well-adopted. I know many ppl who formerly used Linux and now are trying out FreeBSD. I like that :) Alex -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 13:21:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from moutvdom00.kundenserver.de (moutvdom00.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3576637B5E6 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 13:21:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from list@rachinsky.de) Received: from [195.20.224.208] (helo=mrvdom01.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12ygtw-0002Iy-00; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:21:40 +0200 Received: from dialin125-10.tnt02.frankfurt.nikoma.de ([213.54.10.125] helo=gottt) by mrvdom01.kundenserver.de with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12ygtn-0007bH-00; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:21:31 +0200 Message-ID: <02e301bfce62$9b4e73b0$7d0a36d5@gottt> From: "Nicolas" To: "Matt Heckaman" Cc: "FreeBSD-ADVOCACY" References: Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:18:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Copied from Bugtraq: Hey Folks, Aggregate stats for 3 years of Bugtraq are now available. Ever wanted to know which operating systems and applications have the most reported security vulnerabilities? Are there more known vulnerabilities in Windows NT or Linux? http://www.securityfocus.com/frames/?content=/vdb/stats.html end of copy I hope this is what you are looking for. Nicolas ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Heckaman To: FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 10:34 AM Subject: FreeBSD/Solaris > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Disclaimer: I do NOT want to start an OS holy war. > > I had a guy tonight tell me he's putting Solaris on his SMP x86 server > because "it has far less exploits in the last 5 years than FreeBSD and > that FreeBSD 'does not announce their security holes'" > > Now, I don't believe this and was ahem, offended to say the least. My > quesiton is, does anyone have any hard statistics on matters like this. I > would like to have something well thought out to present to him. > > Opinions? PLEASE do not make a flame/holy war out of this post. I just > want to know the facts on if there are any good stats and comparisons out > there for me to reference. > > Matt Heckaman > matt@arpa.mail.net > http://www.lucida.qc.ca > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (FreeBSD) > Comment: http://www.lucida.qc.ca/pgp > > iD8DBQE5OhSMdMMtMcA1U5ARAhLQAKDSNBINp4/IJCBshye9pCHvXeQXuQCgyJiv > fRvTpjcKiz18e91mA/9ePic= > =ZmXZ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 18:58:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from epsilon.lucida.qc.ca (epsilon.lucida.qc.ca [216.95.146.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D7C737BC32 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:58:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matt@ARPA.MAIL.NET) Received: (qmail 27401 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Jun 2000 01:58:47 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Jun 2000 01:58:47 -0000 Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 21:58:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Matt Heckaman X-Sender: matt@epsilon.lucida.qc.ca To: FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Rating: localhost 1.6.2 0/1000/N Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I want to thank you for all you replies. I've got alot of information now and hopefully he's believe hard statistics, he usually does. :) Matt Heckaman matt@arpa.mail.net http://www.lucida.qc.ca -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (FreeBSD) Comment: http://www.lucida.qc.ca/pgp iD8DBQE5OwlWdMMtMcA1U5ARArqmAKCuj6yx/clflw1vCV/pvan7RdT2mgCgwpHN nzC4Jq9Npxqg3shKLTfvn4k= =wS6D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 4 23:42:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F9237B820; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 23:42:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA49230; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 23:42:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 23:42:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Nicolas Cc: Matt Heckaman , FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris In-Reply-To: <02e301bfce62$9b4e73b0$7d0a36d5@gottt> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 4 Jun 2000, Nicolas wrote: > Aggregate stats for 3 years of Bugtraq are now available. > > Ever wanted to know which operating systems and applications have the most > reported security vulnerabilities? Are there more known vulnerabilities in > Windows NT or Linux? > > http://www.securityfocus.com/frames/?content=/vdb/stats.html > > end of copy > > I hope this is what you are looking for. Actually these numbers are slightly misleading in this context: they include with FreeBSD some port vulnerabilities as well (plus they're only based on vulnerabilities collected from those reported to bugtraq, so they're necessarily incomplete). But even so, Solaris is way "ahead" of FreeBSD in the list. Speaking as one of the FreeBSD security officers, we are pretty good at reporting holes which are internally discovered (i.e. not disclosed in public by someone else), but I can't say the same about Solaris - most of their advisories seem to be in response to exploits published in bugtraq, thereby "forcing their hand". There's also the fact that Solaris are *still* having root exploit after root exploit found because of failure to audit their vulnerable code. I must admit I have a bit of a soft spot for Solaris, but it's certainly not because of their attention to security. Kris ---- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 5 9:47:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pebkac.owp.csus.edu (pebkac.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27DFD37B744 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:47:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Received: from localhost (scottj@localhost) by pebkac.owp.csus.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA80469; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 08:24:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 08:24:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: scottj@pebkac.owp.csus.edu To: Matt Heckaman Cc: FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 4 Jun 2000, Matt Heckaman wrote: > Disclaimer: I do NOT want to start an OS holy war. > > I had a guy tonight tell me he's putting Solaris on his SMP x86 server > because "it has far less exploits in the last 5 years than FreeBSD and > that FreeBSD 'does not announce their security holes'" Just based on this paragraph I don't believe you will be able to win any sort of discussion with this person given these parameters. He could try to hammer FreeBSD coming and going. If you come up with stats that show 10x more holes in FreeBSD than in Solaris, then his first statement holds. In this case FreeBSD would have more "holes" than Solaris. If you come up with stats that show 10x more holes in Solaris than in FreeBSD then his section statement may hold. That FreeBSD simply doesn't have as many because they don't announce them. I'm afraid I don't have any stats to help one way or the other. However I'd try to get his concern a little more clearly defined before presenting any hard numbers/material. --- Joseph Scott joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu The Office Of Water Programs - CSU Sacramento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 5 18:10: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6837437B736; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:09:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: from kilt.nothing-going-on.org (kilt.nothing-going-on.org [192.168.1.18]) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21035; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 01:46:10 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@catkin.nothing-going-on.org) Received: (from nik@localhost) by kilt.nothing-going-on.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03264; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:22:29 GMT (envelope-from nik@catkin.nothing-going-on.org) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:22:29 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Nik Clayton , freebsd-users@uk.freebsd.org, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LinuxExpo report Message-ID: <20000605122229.A3245@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20000601094240.A48761@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> <3937996F.EDE92DD8@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <3937996F.EDE92DD8@newsguy.com>; from dcs@newsguy.com on Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 08:24:31PM +0900 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 08:24:31PM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > You _do_ know the FreeBSD project uses Perforce internally in at least > one side project, right? :-) Yes and no. I recall seeing enigmatic mentions (just like the one above) from time to time on the lists, but no one ever actually comes forward and says "We're using this, this is what we're using it for, this is why we chose it, and if you want to help out (or experiment with it) then this is what you need to." [ Sorry, was that hint strong enough ? ] N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 6 16:53:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (obie.softweyr.com [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51BE337B7E9; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:53:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (ip31.salt-lake-city6.ut.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.95.31]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20083; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:53:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <393D8ECF.5BF8B3C5@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 17:52:47 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-users@uk.freebsd.org, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LinuxExpo report References: <20000601094240.A48761@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> <3937996F.EDE92DD8@newsguy.com> <20000605122229.A3245@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 08:24:31PM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > You _do_ know the FreeBSD project uses Perforce internally in at least > > one side project, right? :-) > > Yes and no. I recall seeing enigmatic mentions (just like the one above) > from time to time on the lists, but no one ever actually comes forward and > says "We're using this, this is what we're using it for, this is why we > chose it, and if you want to help out (or experiment with it) then this is > what you need to." > > [ Sorry, was that hint strong enough ? ] Just in case it wasn't, would somebody please tell Nik (and perhaps everyone else) what FreeBSD *is* doing with Perforce? Enquiring minds want to know, and Perforce is a pretty good instrument for "selling" FreeBSD to resistant companies, too. Like Intel. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 6 17:48:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B50C237B69A for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:48:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02298 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:48:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000606184819.04b11b80@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 18:48:29 -0600 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Anti-BSD FUD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG See http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2582875,00.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 6 18:21:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5650337B61F; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:21:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA15733; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 02:18:24 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 02:18:23 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Wes Peters Cc: Nik Clayton , "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-users@uk.freebsd.org, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LinuxExpo report Message-ID: <20000607021823.A4884@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20000601094240.A48761@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> <3937996F.EDE92DD8@newsguy.com> <20000605122229.A3245@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> <393D8ECF.5BF8B3C5@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <393D8ECF.5BF8B3C5@softweyr.com>; from wes@softweyr.com on Tue, Jun 06, 2000 at 05:52:47PM -0600 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 06, 2000 at 05:52:47PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Just in case it wasn't, would somebody please tell Nik (and perhaps everyone > else) what FreeBSD *is* doing with Perforce? Enquiring minds want to know, > and Perforce is a pretty good instrument for "selling" FreeBSD to resistant > companies, too. Like Intel. dcs filled me in. Apparently the BSD/OS code is in Perforce. This makes it easier for us to follow their code, and submit changes, while integrating chunks of it back in to FreeBSD. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 6 19:29:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9C837BA4D for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:29:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA03313; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA2TaOCg; Tue Jun 6 19:29:03 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA06582; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:29:14 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200006070229.TAA06582@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Solaris To: matt@ARPA.MAIL.NET (Matt Heckaman) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 02:29:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-ADVOCACY) In-Reply-To: from "Matt Heckaman" at Jun 04, 2000 04:34:19 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I had a guy tonight tell me he's putting Solaris on his SMP x86 server > because "it has far less exploits in the last 5 years than FreeBSD and > that FreeBSD 'does not announce their security holes'" How does he know they exist if they haven't been announced? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 6 21: 3:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (sol.cc.u-szeged.hu [160.114.8.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8914837B70B for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:03:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu) Received: from petra.hos.u-szeged.hu by sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (8.9.3+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id GAA19607; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 06:04:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sziszi by petra.hos.u-szeged.hu with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12zX4J-0006VZ-00 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2000 06:03:51 +0200 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 06:03:51 +0200 From: Szilveszter Adam To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anti-BSD FUD Message-ID: <20000607060351.A24669@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu> Mail-Followup-To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000606184819.04b11b80@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000606184819.04b11b80@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Tue, Jun 06, 2000 at 06:48:29PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 06, 2000 at 06:48:29PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > See > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2582875,00.html Although the topic (as any topic involving GPL vs BSDL) is potentially highly susceptible to flaming (no smoking in the area, please) and I usually do not post in flame wars, this time I would like to add a couple of things. The article did not talk about the BSDs in a negative light, it only talked about the license, yet it was quick to point out that BSD operating systems are "high quality". I do not think this is FUD. The article did not eulogise the FSF approach as a whole, either, it even sounded a very valid argument against RMS's attitude. It only pointed to a fact in the BSDL which we all knew existed but have not payed much attention to this far. This is not FUD, this is criticism. Even though we are getting good press lately not least because our PR machinery is accelerating (and I am happy to see that for as long as the information presented is factual and correct and truth is not taken over by marketing talk), we must also take into account that as our visibility increases, people will actually have opinions about us and those will not always be favorable and not always come from dedicated supporters. This is not bad, on the contrary. As to the merit of the article, I find that the author's points are valid to some degree. If you base your only hope on licenses and laws to protect you and count on an otherwise hostile environment, where everyone is out to crush you in any way not explicitly forbidden, the GPL is a better choice. In an environment where you can count on decade-old customs and traditioms of sharing and improving, of giving everyone fair credit, of fair use even when you are making profit from it, law will not be your only recourse. This is the approach we seem to cultivate. We seem to hold that it is not only laws which make sure that things function, it is peoples' belief that it should work this way and them voluntarily following the rules, too. And indeed, this is a very important factor in why rules and regulations work even when they are not expressly enforced by force or even when such enforcement is not even possible. However, there are situations when the FSF's more pessimistic approach is more valid. It must be decided on a case-by-case basis, after all, licenses were invented to serve a need and you must decide what your needs are instead of making this a religious issue. BTW I think even the GPL would not have stopped Microsoft from making proprietary extensions to the protocol, because of their "freedom to innovate" ideology which has not been defeated yet, and which is in fact just a cover for "I can do whatever I want to because I am the leader and everybody will have to follow me sooner or later. Also, noone dare touch me because I am the American economic growth and I hold America's future in innovations in IT." The only reason it has not yet come to a showdown between the FSF and Microsoft is the fact that there are alternatives they can take (like BSDL-ed software) without piling up legal costs and going for confrontation. But this paragraph is only personal opinion and commentary. Wish you all a nice day from the sunny Southern Hungary. -- Regards: Szilveszter ADAM Szeged University Szeged Hungary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 6 21:15:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8689637BC4B for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:15:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@wam.umd.edu) Received: from rac5.wam.umd.edu (root@rac5.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.145]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03302 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 00:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac5.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac5.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA05833 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 00:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac5.wam.umd.edu (howardjp@localhost) by rac5.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05828 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 00:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200006070415.AAA05828@rac5.wam.umd.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: rac5.wam.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Response to ZDNet's anti-BSD Story Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 00:15:10 -0400 From: James Howard Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Okay, so I prepared a response to ZDNet's BSD bashing. I intend to submit it to OSOpinion sometime tomorrow. I decided to send it to the mailing list first to solicit suggestions and recomendations on it. So, without further ado, here it is, enjoy. Jamie Kerberos and the GPL James Howard On Tuesday, June 6, Evan Leibovitch wrote (http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2582875,00.html) about Microsoft's wrangling of the Kerberos protocol. Microsoft had taken the open source MIT software, made changes affecting compatibility, and released the new version without the source code. The Kerberos code is licensed under a license similar to both the BSD operating system and the X11 Windowing system. Leibovitch blames the license for allowing Microsoft to introduce proprietary extensions into the protocol and claims that if Kerberos had been licensed under the Free Software Foundation's General Public License (GPL) Microsoft would have been unable to embrace and extend the Kerberos standard. However, Leibovitch does not get it. This was the best possible outcome and it was forced by the liberal license. There are three paths this project could have taken: * First, Microsoft could have ignored Kerberos completely and left the broader community with an entirely new standard with zero support from other software in the community. * Second, the Kerberos code could have been released under the GPL. If this had happened, the Microsoft would have surely refused to use the code to prevent having to reveal proprietary source. Microsoft would have then reimplemented the code and still modified the protocol. Had Microsoft been forced to reimplement the code, it would surely contain an unknown number of bugs and compatibility issues. * First, the Kerberos code could have been released under a Berkeley-style license. Microsoft could have then taken the code and distributed a modified version and maintained some level of compatibility with existing implementations and installations of Kerberos. This is, in fact, what happened and by far the best possible outcome of this scenario. As can be clearly seen, the liberal licensing of the Kerberos code permitted and encouraged a potentially nightmare scenario in software development to become a smaller and containable issue. Further, as we can see, other licensing of the software would have only made the situation worse and forced increased headaches and problems upon systems administrators and implementors. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 6 23:26:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86FA537B6EE for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:26:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id A87F7F; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 02:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D13C49A10; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 02:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 02:26:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: James Howard Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Response to ZDNet's anti-BSD Story In-Reply-To: <200006070415.AAA05828@rac5.wam.umd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Very good. It represents my sentiments very well. BTW, you used "First" where "Third" should have been. Otherwise, very good. Chris Coleman Daemon News http://www.daemonnews.org Bringing BSD together On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, James Howard wrote: > Okay, so I prepared a response to ZDNet's BSD bashing. I intend to submit > it to OSOpinion sometime tomorrow. I decided to send it to the mailing > list first to solicit suggestions and recomendations on it. So, without > further ado, here it is, enjoy. > > Jamie > > > > Kerberos and the GPL > > James Howard > > On Tuesday, June 6, Evan Leibovitch wrote > (http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2582875,00.html) > about Microsoft's wrangling of the Kerberos protocol. Microsoft had > taken the open source MIT software, made changes affecting compatibility, > and released the new version without the source code. The Kerberos > code is licensed under a license similar to both the BSD operating > system and the X11 Windowing system. > > Leibovitch blames the license for allowing Microsoft to introduce proprietary > extensions into the protocol and claims that if Kerberos had been > licensed under the Free Software Foundation's General Public License > (GPL) Microsoft would have been unable to embrace and extend the Kerberos > standard. However, Leibovitch does not get it. This was the best possible > outcome and it was forced by the liberal license. > > There are three paths this project could have taken: > > * First, Microsoft could have ignored Kerberos completely and left > the broader community with an entirely new standard with zero support > from other software in the community. > > * Second, the Kerberos code could have been released under the GPL. > If this had happened, the Microsoft would have surely refused to > use the code to prevent having to reveal proprietary source. Microsoft > would have then reimplemented the code and still modified the protocol. > Had Microsoft been forced to reimplement the code, it would surely > contain an unknown number of bugs and compatibility issues. > > * First, the Kerberos code could have been released under a Berkeley-style > license. Microsoft could have then taken the code and distributed > a modified version and maintained some level of compatibility with > existing implementations and installations of Kerberos. This is, > in fact, what happened and by far the best possible outcome of this > scenario. > > As can be clearly seen, the liberal licensing of the Kerberos code > permitted and encouraged a potentially nightmare scenario in software > development to become a smaller and containable issue. Further, as > we can see, other licensing of the software would have only made the > situation worse and forced increased headaches and problems upon systems > administrators and implementors. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jun 7 8:40:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.runet.edu (peloton.runet.edu [137.45.96.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6655937BD51 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 08:40:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.runet.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.runet.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04467; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:40:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.runet.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:40:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Brett Taylor To: James Howard Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Response to ZDNet's anti-BSD Story In-Reply-To: <200006070415.AAA05828@rac5.wam.umd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Not sure if you've sent this yet but... On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, James Howard wrote: - If this had happened, the Microsoft would have surely refused to + If this had happened, then - * First, the Kerberos code could have been released under a + * Third, the Kerberos code could have been released under a Brett ***************************************************** Dr. Brett Taylor brett@peloton.runet.edu * Dept of Chem and Physics * Curie 39A (540) 831-6147 * Dept. of Mathematics and Statistics * Walker 234 (540) 831-5410 * ***************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jun 7 9:36:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62F1B37B9F8 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 09:36:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@wam.umd.edu) Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (root@rac8.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.148]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28334; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27369; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (howardjp@localhost) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27363; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200006071636.MAA27363@rac8.wam.umd.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: rac8.wam.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs To: Brett Taylor Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Response to ZDNet's anti-BSD Story In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:40:33 EDT." Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 12:36:30 -0400 From: James Howard Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , Brett T aylor writes: > - If this had happened, the Microsoft would have surely refused to > + If this had happened, then > > - * First, the Kerberos code could have been released under a > + * Third, the Kerberos code could have been released under a Fixed. Thank you very much. Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jun 7 9:57:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E920437BDAF for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 09:57:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e57Gv1020195; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:57:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: James Howard Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Response to ZDNet's anti-BSD Story In-Reply-To: <200006070415.AAA05828@rac5.wam.umd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG you also might want to mention that M$ vs. Slashdot is not about licensing legalities. its about censoring our users -Trish (BSD-Pat, BSD-Trish) andover.net __ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net lynch@unix.sh lynch@blowfi.sh Systems Administrator Rush Networking On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, James Howard wrote: > Okay, so I prepared a response to ZDNet's BSD bashing. I intend to submit > it to OSOpinion sometime tomorrow. I decided to send it to the mailing > list first to solicit suggestions and recomendations on it. So, without > further ado, here it is, enjoy. > > Jamie > > > > Kerberos and the GPL > > James Howard > > On Tuesday, June 6, Evan Leibovitch wrote > (http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2582875,00.html) > about Microsoft's wrangling of the Kerberos protocol. Microsoft had > taken the open source MIT software, made changes affecting compatibility, > and released the new version without the source code. The Kerberos > code is licensed under a license similar to both the BSD operating > system and the X11 Windowing system. > > Leibovitch blames the license for allowing Microsoft to introduce proprietary > extensions into the protocol and claims that if Kerberos had been > licensed under the Free Software Foundation's General Public License > (GPL) Microsoft would have been unable to embrace and extend the Kerberos > standard. However, Leibovitch does not get it. This was the best possible > outcome and it was forced by the liberal license. > > There are three paths this project could have taken: > > * First, Microsoft could have ignored Kerberos completely and left > the broader community with an entirely new standard with zero support > from other software in the community. > > * Second, the Kerberos code could have been released under the GPL. > If this had happened, the Microsoft would have surely refused to > use the code to prevent having to reveal proprietary source. Microsoft > would have then reimplemented the code and still modified the protocol. > Had Microsoft been forced to reimplement the code, it would surely > contain an unknown number of bugs and compatibility issues. > > * First, the Kerberos code could have been released under a Berkeley-style > license. Microsoft could have then taken the code and distributed > a modified version and maintained some level of compatibility with > existing implementations and installations of Kerberos. This is, > in fact, what happened and by far the best possible outcome of this > scenario. > > As can be clearly seen, the liberal licensing of the Kerberos code > permitted and encouraged a potentially nightmare scenario in software > development to become a smaller and containable issue. Further, as > we can see, other licensing of the software would have only made the > situation worse and forced increased headaches and problems upon systems > administrators and implementors. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jun 7 18:37: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A87E37BF2F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:37:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27161; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAAfaqRY; Wed Jun 7 18:35:02 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA23389; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:35:25 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200006080135.SAA23389@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Response to ZDNet's anti-BSD Story To: howardjp@wam.umd.edu (James Howard) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 01:35:24 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200006070415.AAA05828@rac5.wam.umd.edu> from "James Howard" at Jun 07, 2000 12:15:10 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > it to OSOpinion sometime tomorrow. I decided to send it to the mailing > list first to solicit suggestions and recomendations on it. So, without > further ado, here it is, enjoy. [ ... ] > Microsoft had > taken the open source MIT software, made changes affecting compatibility, > and released the new version without the source code. Except they didn't take the MIT code, they rolled their own from the specifications, and then misused a field against the stated intent of the uses for that field by the protocol author. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jun 8 11:13:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A1C937C1A0 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:13:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 67211 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2000 18:06:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 8 Jun 2000 18:06:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 5575 invoked by uid 211); 8 Jun 2000 18:06:06 -0000 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 23:36:06 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: article in Troubleshooting Professional Message-ID: <20000608233606.A5457@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.0.36 i686 X-Question: Do you enjoy reading pointless headers? Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Issue called "Making it in a post Microsoft world", http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200006/200006.htm very linux-oriented but has the following BSD mention fairly early on: Don't Forget BSD By Steve Litt Linux and BSD are close cousins. Most of the software available for Linux is available for BSD. BSD has certain performance advantages, although Linux is catching up. Linux has the advantage of a much larger user base and mindshare, and more software. Although this issue of Troubleshooting Professional speaks mostly of Linux, much of it's applicable to BSD. BSD makes a killer web server. No Linux investigation is complete without at least considering BSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jun 8 13:39:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from brs.com.br (brs.com.br [192.41.24.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DF5037BFD7 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:39:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from email@carlos.eti.br) Received: from fraga.carlos.eti.br ([200.241.0.6]) by brs.com.br (8.8.5) id SAA11204; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 18:39:27 -0200 (GMT+2) X-Authentication-Warning: brs.com.br: Host [200.241.0.6] claimed to be fraga.carlos.eti.br Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000608174021.00af34e0@carlos.eti.br> X-Sender: email@carlos.eti.br X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:40:27 -0300 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Carlos Fraga Subject: Re: It's worth ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A site that pays you to receive some e-mails. No more than that. Nothing to buy, just to receive the e-mail and click on the link to visit the site. Don't you believe it exists ? Yes, it exists. And I have already received a US$ 50,00 check. Will you say that you don't want some money ? It's up to you to subscribe and start receiving e-mails and money ! Follow the link: http://www.sendmoreinfo.com/id/871883 See you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 9 2: 8:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from server.baldwin.CX (dsl081-006-051.dsl-isp.net [64.81.6.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 767B137C2BE for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 02:08:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@baldwin.cx) Received: (from john@localhost) by server.baldwin.CX (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00613; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:08:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from john) Message-Id: <200006090908.FAA00613@server.baldwin.CX> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200006070415.AAA05828@rac5.wam.umd.edu> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 05:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Organization: BSD, Inc. From: John Baldwin To: James Howard Subject: RE: Response to ZDNet's anti-BSD Story Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 07-Jun-00 James Howard wrote: > Okay, so I prepared a response to ZDNet's BSD bashing. I intend to submit > it to OSOpinion sometime tomorrow. I decided to send it to the mailing > list first to solicit suggestions and recomendations on it. So, without > further ado, here it is, enjoy. > > Jamie [ snip ] > * First, Microsoft could have ignored Kerberos completely and left > > * Second, the Kerberos code could have been released under the GPL. > > * First, the Kerberos code could have been released under a Berkeley-style ^^^^^ Third. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 9 14:48:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.campbell-mithun.com (Mercury.campbell-mithun.com [192.159.32.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E8B37B75C for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:48:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from swb@grasslake.net) Received: from accord.grasslake.net (honda.grasslake.net [192.168.1.1]) by mercury.campbell-mithun.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA30168 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:52:26 -0500 Received: from marlowe (Marlowe.campbell-mithun.com [192.159.32.184]) by accord.grasslake.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA52851 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:44:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from swb@grasslake.net) Message-ID: <003901bfd25c$77a772b0$b8209fc0@campbellmithun.com> From: "Shawn Barnhart" To: Subject: Logo? Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:48:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there a source for a high(er)-res version of the FreeBSD daemon or other "logo"? We do a newsletter at work, and we're looking to mention the use of FreeBSD for key network applications. I can always grab the graphics off of http://www.Freebsd.org but they're not really designed for hires output. By the time I res it up and then blur it to smooth the edges, it ends up looking like I've been drinking. I don't know if talking about FreeBSD to the unwashed masses does much "advocacy", but a professional-looking graphic certainly would help. -- swb@grasslake.net Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 9 16: 0:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C094737B5DD for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:00:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id EBB96E; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2B4549A10; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:00:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Shawn Barnhart Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo? In-Reply-To: <003901bfd25c$77a772b0$b8209fc0@campbellmithun.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://search.daemonnews.org/cgi-bin/category.pl?name=graphics Chris Coleman Daemon News http://www.daemonnews.org Bringing BSD together On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Shawn Barnhart wrote: > Is there a source for a high(er)-res version of the FreeBSD daemon or other > "logo"? > > We do a newsletter at work, and we're looking to mention the use of FreeBSD > for key network applications. I can always grab the graphics off of > http://www.Freebsd.org but they're not really designed for hires output. By > the time I res it up and then blur it to smooth the edges, it ends up > looking like I've been drinking. > > I don't know if talking about FreeBSD to the unwashed masses does much > "advocacy", but a professional-looking graphic certainly would help. > > -- > swb@grasslake.net > Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now. > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 9 20:37: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.campbell-mithun.com (Mercury.campbell-mithun.com [192.159.32.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B9537B66C for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 20:36:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from swb@grasslake.net) Received: from accord.grasslake.net (honda.grasslake.net [192.168.1.1]) by mercury.campbell-mithun.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA00762; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 21:41:03 -0500 Received: from k6 (k6.grasslake.net [192.168.2.1]) by accord.grasslake.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA53323; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:32:52 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from swb@grasslake.net) Message-ID: <001301bfd28d$2cdb8970$0102a8c0@k6> From: "Shawn Barnhart" To: "Chris Coleman" Cc: References: Subject: Re: Logo? Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:37:16 -0500 Organization: Grasslake.Net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Coleman" | http://search.daemonnews.org/cgi-bin/category.pl?name=graphics While I appreciate the information, none of those graphics are really suitable for hires output except perhaps for the Daemon News hires stuff, but that's not exactly what I was looking for. Also, the link to http://www.baldwin.cx/splash appears to be dead. I'm going to email Kirk McKusick and see what he says. Otherwise, I'll just mention FreeBSD in the article and not include a graphic, which is kind of a shame since I think the graphic is such an attention-getter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 9 21:25:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from server.baldwin.CX (john.geekhouse.net [64.81.6.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6079637BCF0 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 21:25:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@baldwin.cx) Received: (from john@localhost) by server.baldwin.CX (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA02487; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:25:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from john) Message-Id: <200006100425.AAA02487@server.baldwin.CX> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <001301bfd28d$2cdb8970$0102a8c0@k6> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Organization: BSD, Inc. From: John Baldwin To: Shawn Barnhart Subject: Re: Logo? Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Chris Coleman Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10-Jun-00 Shawn Barnhart wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Coleman" > > >| http://search.daemonnews.org/cgi-bin/category.pl?name=graphics > > While I appreciate the information, none of those graphics are really > suitable for hires output except perhaps for the Daemon News hires > stuff, but that's not exactly what I was looking for. > > Also, the link to http://www.baldwin.cx/splash appears to be dead. It's on http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/splash/ for the time being until I can get it back up and running. > I'm going to email Kirk McKusick and see what he says. Otherwise, I'll > just mention FreeBSD in the article and not include a graphic, which is > kind of a shame since I think the graphic is such an attention-getter. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 9 22:45:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from garm.bart.nl (garm.bart.nl [194.158.170.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A9C637BCB4; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:45:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (lucifer.is.an.elder.of.the.ninth-circle.org [195.38.216.226]) by garm.bart.nl (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e5A5jG537054; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:45:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA59852; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:45:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:45:18 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Some PR Message-ID: <20000610074518.A59845@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi guys, in the last few days I had a lot of contact with Highpoint Tech, the makers of those ATA controller cards. The result can be seen from http://www.highpoint-tech.com in the down left corner. And note that I am in no way affiliated with BSDi, except for being a committer. So you see, everybody could pull this off. Cheers, -- Jeroen Ruigrok vd Werven/Asmodai asmodai@[wxs.nl|bart.nl|freebsd.org] Documentation nutter/C-rated Coder BSD: Technical excellence at its best The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Hypocrisy is the homage which vice pays to virtue... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 0:22:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9D7FC37C673 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:22:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 75894 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2000 07:22:03 -0000 Received: from theory8.physics.iisc.ernet.in (144.16.71.128) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 10 Jun 2000 07:22:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 2264 invoked by uid 211); 10 Jun 2000 07:22:01 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:52:01 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Shawn Barnhart Cc: Chris Coleman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo? Message-ID: <20000610125201.A2259@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mail-Followup-To: Shawn Barnhart , Chris Coleman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <001301bfd28d$2cdb8970$0102a8c0@k6> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <001301bfd28d$2cdb8970$0102a8c0@k6>; from swb@grasslake.net on Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 10:37:16PM -0500 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.0.32 i486 X-Question: Do you enjoy reading pointless headers? Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is it a good idea to make a vector graphics form of beastie, a postscript file say? I could give it a shot in the next day or two, can't say how good the results will be though. Shawn Barnhart said on Jun 9, 2000 at 22:37:16: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Coleman" > > > | http://search.daemonnews.org/cgi-bin/category.pl?name=graphics > > While I appreciate the information, none of those graphics are really > suitable for hires output except perhaps for the Daemon News hires > stuff, but that's not exactly what I was looking for. > > Also, the link to http://www.baldwin.cx/splash appears to be dead. > > I'm going to email Kirk McKusick and see what he says. Otherwise, I'll > just mention FreeBSD in the article and not include a graphic, which is > kind of a shame since I think the graphic is such an attention-getter. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 0:23: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from luna.cdrom.com (valve.geekhouse.net [64.81.6.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9645937C673 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:23:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@luna.cdrom.com) Received: by luna.cdrom.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CCA483205; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:22:59 -0700 From: Jim Mock To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some PR Message-ID: <20000610002259.B1654@luna.osd.bsdi.com> Reply-To: jim@luna.osd.bsdi.com References: <20000610074518.A59845@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.2i In-Reply-To: <20000610074518.A59845@daemon.ninth-circle.org>; from asmodai@wxs.nl on Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 07:45:18AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 10 Jun 2000 at 07:45:18 +0200, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > Hi guys, Hey Jeroen, > in the last few days I had a lot of contact with Highpoint Tech, the > makers of those ATA controller cards. > > The result can be seen from http://www.highpoint-tech.com in the down > left corner. > > And note that I am in no way affiliated with BSDi, except for being a > committer. So you see, everybody could pull this off. I just wanted to say, that this kicks ass :-) I know I told you that on IRC last night, but I figured I'd say it there too. Great job bro. - jim -- - jim mock --- berkeley software design, inc --- jim@luna.osd.bsdi.com - - open source software division - documentation manager - jim@bsdi.com - - phone: 1.925.691.2800 x.3814 - fax: 1.925.674.0821 - jim@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 1:16:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from garm.bart.nl (garm.bart.nl [194.158.170.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B7E037B6C3 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 01:16:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (lucifer.is.an.elder.of.the.ninth-circle.org [195.38.216.226]) by garm.bart.nl (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e5A8G7a39751; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:16:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01576; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:15:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:15:57 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Jim Mock Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some PR Message-ID: <20000610101557.A821@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <20000610074518.A59845@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <20000610002259.B1654@luna.osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000610002259.B1654@luna.osd.bsdi.com>; from jim@luna.osd.bsdi.com on Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 12:22:59AM -0700 Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -On [20000610 10:05], Jim Mock (jim@luna.osd.bsdi.com) wrote: >On Sat, 10 Jun 2000 at 07:45:18 +0200, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> The result can be seen from http://www.highpoint-tech.com in the down >> left corner. > >I just wanted to say, that this kicks ass :-) I know I told you that on >IRC last night, but I figured I'd say it there too. Great job bro. *laughs* Well, I was talking to these guys, but they have been very receptive, especially after I told them that we explicitely don't blame ATA problems on their controller as per Microsoft and Linux but on the disks, which I can testify. My IBM DPTA drive works a-ok. I will try and contact every other vendor and do some more PR work like this. But for now I am going to do my end of the `bargain' and fix HPT's entries on our website and such. =) -- Jeroen Ruigrok vd Werven/Asmodai asmodai@[wxs.nl|bart.nl|freebsd.org] Documentation nutter/C-rated Coder BSD: Technical excellence at its best The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Necessity relieves us of the ordeal of choice... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 6:23: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from DP-1-001.syntel.ru (DP-1-001.syntel.ru [213.248.2.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 01AB837B5A0 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 06:22:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from prettylady@freemail.ru) From: To: Date: Ρα, 10 θών 2000 15:56:32 +0400 Message-ID: <85658372456445042@DP-1-001.syntel.ru> Subject: Hi, its for you ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! We are Russian girls - Olga,Lena, Vera. We would like to correspond with you. Visit our site and see our photos. http://www.bestgirls.narod.ru/ With interest, Olga,Lena, Vera. P.S. (This is not spam. You can unsubscribe at any time by sending an email to prettylady@freemail.ru with the subject UNSUBSCRIBE.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 10:39:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 37B2237B599 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 76889 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2000 17:39:01 -0000 Received: from theory7.physics.iisc.ernet.in (qmailr@144.16.71.127) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 10 Jun 2000 17:39:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 19652 invoked by uid 211); 10 Jun 2000 17:38:59 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:08:58 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Shawn Barnhart Cc: Chris Coleman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Scalable logo Message-ID: <20000610230858.A19623@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mail-Followup-To: Shawn Barnhart , Chris Coleman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <001301bfd28d$2cdb8970$0102a8c0@k6> <20000610125201.A2259@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000610125201.A2259@physics.iisc.ernet.in>; from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in on Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 12:52:01PM +0530 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.14 alpha X-Question: Do you enjoy reading pointless headers? Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I had a shot at making a scalable Beastie. It needs work, but you can pick up the thing in its present form at http://theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in/rsidd/daemon.sk (Sketch file) http://theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in/rsidd/daemon.eps (postscript) http://theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in/rsidd/daemon.png (PNG, ie bitmap but high resolution) If anyone improves it significantly, please let me know. I think with a bit of work one could submit it to the gallery on the Sketch homepage. Since it's all informal now I haven't put in Kirk's copyright info and all that, what's the best way to do that? Rahul. Rahul Siddharthan said on Jun 10, 2000 at 12:52:01: > Is it a good idea to make a vector graphics form of beastie, a > postscript file say? I could give it a shot in the next day or two, > can't say how good the results will be though. > > Shawn Barnhart said on Jun 9, 2000 at 22:37:16: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Coleman" > > > > > > | http://search.daemonnews.org/cgi-bin/category.pl?name=graphics > > > > While I appreciate the information, none of those graphics are really > > suitable for hires output except perhaps for the Daemon News hires > > stuff, but that's not exactly what I was looking for. > > > > Also, the link to http://www.baldwin.cx/splash appears to be dead. > > > > I'm going to email Kirk McKusick and see what he says. Otherwise, I'll > > just mention FreeBSD in the article and not include a graphic, which is > > kind of a shame since I think the graphic is such an attention-getter. > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 11:36:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (obie.softweyr.com [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F9437BEFE for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:36:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (Foolstrustident!@homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12485; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:34:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <39428A66.B12AA96F@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:35:18 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo? References: <001301bfd28d$2cdb8970$0102a8c0@k6> <20000610125201.A2259@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > Is it a good idea to make a vector graphics form of beastie, a > postscript file say? I could give it a shot in the next day or two, > can't say how good the results will be though. It couldn't hurt. Thanks in advance for trying. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 11:38: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (obie.softweyr.com [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07AB37BEFE for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:38:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (Foolstrustident!@homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12496; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:37:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <39428B1A.8AD90F2@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:38:18 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Jim Mock , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some PR References: <20000610074518.A59845@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <20000610002259.B1654@luna.osd.bsdi.com> <20000610101557.A821@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > -On [20000610 10:05], Jim Mock (jim@luna.osd.bsdi.com) wrote: > >On Sat, 10 Jun 2000 at 07:45:18 +0200, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > >> The result can be seen from http://www.highpoint-tech.com in the down > >> left corner. > > > >I just wanted to say, that this kicks ass :-) I know I told you that on > >IRC last night, but I figured I'd say it there too. Great job bro. > > *laughs* > > Well, I was talking to these guys, but they have been very receptive, > especially after I told them that we explicitely don't blame ATA > problems on their controller as per Microsoft and Linux but on the > disks, which I can testify. My IBM DPTA drive works a-ok. > > I will try and contact every other vendor and do some more PR work like > this. But for now I am going to do my end of the `bargain' and fix > HPT's entries on our website and such. =) Great work. I'll dig through my archives and see if I can find the list of proposed hardware-compatible vendors for you. The first one that leaps to mind is Abit, who list FreeBSD hardware compatible in the instruction booklets included with their motherboards. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 11:39: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (obie.softweyr.com [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B97FE37BEFE for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:39:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (Foolstrustident!@homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12504; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:38:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <39428B52.6DA734A1@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:39:14 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Jim Mock , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some PR References: <20000610074518.A59845@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <20000610002259.B1654@luna.osd.bsdi.com> <20000610101557.A821@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > I will try and contact every other vendor and do some more PR work like > this. Another vendor to contact is Tekram - SCSI controllers. Adaptec too, of course. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 13:56:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB69137BEB6; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:56:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from merlin@netlink.co.uk) Received: from [212.126.141.36] (helo=ratsalad.co.uk) by oracle.clara.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 130sJ4-000EJC-00; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:56:39 +0100 Received: by ratsalad.co.uk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3CE50190A; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:01:16 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:01:15 +0000 From: Darren Wyn Rees To: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, FREEBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The Power to Serve England Message-ID: <20000610210115.J46015@netlink.co.uk> Reply-To: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt 1.2i (FreeBSD) X-No-Archive: yes X-PGP-812C54B1: F8 79 5E 84 F0 20 A5 62 FA 2D E9 BD BE 06 7D 10 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The NEW england.* USENET project is managed using FreeBSD OS. england.* - "For people living in England and ANYONE with an interest in England." Although the website is currently hosted on a Linux server, this will move to FreeBSD 4.0-release soon (if it hasn't already). See http://www.england.news-admin.org/ for more details. Most of the Major UK ISPs have already added these groups, eg. Freeserve (Planet Online) and Netcom UK etc. If your ISP does not carry these groups, and you would like to read them, then write to your ISP asking them to add the groups, for YOU. There's a list of groups here http://www.england.news-admin.org/checkgroups.html If there is anyone out there willing to donate FreeBSD server space to host this project's pages, then please contact admin@england.news-admin.org. Darren (followups freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org) - -- this is my .sig, show me yours -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOUKr3Dz2ljeBLFSxAQGzagP9EyHT8nZjeDVjfNM0jdqMUGVNwfK8iycK ZU3dIVc290AYmHpI/2rpAmX/YkVNYvJZodAK8yzbgXlcI+O1Z296Tr9CcdUlWEUe 5px13wBXHSCuwh31KP0gtl1orxGq435TyP3k8cxpdYOz7kW9ATMsQq+6FPaI1Ce0 ZJA0woSf0Tc= =CTCR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 14: 5:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bishopston.net (h24-68-200-91.cg.shawcable.net [24.68.200.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9AD37BD68 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:05:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@bishopston.net) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by bishopston.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA74975 for FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:05:24 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from ) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:05:24 +0100 (BST) From: Jamie Jones Message-Id: <200006102105.WAA74975@bishopston.net> To: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Power to Serve England In-Reply-To: <20000610210115.J46015@netlink.co.uk> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > england.* - > "For people living in England and ANYONE with an interest in England." > There's a list of groups here > http://www.england.news-admin.org/checkgroups.html I don't have any problem with the English creating their own hierarchy, but looking at the list of groups, there are quite a few which I can see no reason shouldn't be under the uk heirarchy, or is this more a political than geographical split ? england.consultants, england.jobs, england.media.tv, england.rec.pets etc.... What are so special about these groups, as to not include us Welsh, or the Scots and Irish ? The TV is the same, the job scene is the same etc... Cheers, Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 15:52:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE9437B554 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:52:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from parish.my.domain ([62.253.88.75]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000610225217.MFXA290.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@parish.my.domain>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:52:17 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish.my.domain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00479; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:52:13 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:52:13 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Jamie Jones Cc: FreeBSD-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Power to Serve England Message-ID: <20000610235213.A233@parish> References: <20000610210115.J46015@netlink.co.uk> <200006102105.WAA74975@bishopston.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200006102105.WAA74975@bishopston.net>; from jamie@bishopston.net on Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 10:05:24PM +0100 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 10:05:24PM +0100, Jamie Jones wrote: > > england.* - > > "For people living in England and ANYONE with an interest in England." > > > There's a list of groups here > > http://www.england.news-admin.org/checkgroups.html > > I don't have any problem with the English creating their > own hierarchy, but looking at the list of groups, there > are quite a few which I can see no reason shouldn't be > under the uk heirarchy, or is this more a political than > geographical split ? > > england.consultants, england.jobs, england.media.tv, england.rec.pets > etc.... > > What are so special about these groups, as to not include us > Welsh, or the Scots and Irish ? > Well, since Plaid Cymru and the SNP fought for, and have got, the first step towards independence, because they wanted Wales and Scotland to have a separate identity to England, why is it so wrong for we English to have a separate identity from Scotland and Wales? I wouldn't have a problem with {wales,scotland,ireland}.{consultants,jobs,media.tv} etc. Maybe you, personally, don't hold with devolution but many do and they can't have it both ways. > The TV is the same, the job scene is the same etc... > > Cheers, > Jamie > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Want a lean, mean, computing machine? Get rid of that excess FAT - install FreeBSD ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 16: 0:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bishopston.net (h24-68-200-91.cg.shawcable.net [24.68.200.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CB6B37B767 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:00:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@bishopston.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by bishopston.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA34070; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 00:00:43 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from ) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 00:00:43 +0100 (BST) From: Jamie Jones Message-Id: <200006102300.AAA34070@bishopston.net> To: jamie@bishopston.net, mark@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org Subject: Re: The Power to Serve England Cc: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20000610235213.A233@parish> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, since Plaid Cymru and the SNP fought for, and have got, > the first step towards independence, because they wanted Wales and > Scotland to have a separate identity to England, why is it so wrong > for we English to have a separate identity from Scotland and Wales? > > I wouldn't have a problem with > {wales,scotland,ireland}.{consultants,jobs,media.tv} etc. > > Maybe you, personally, don't hold with devolution but many do and they > can't have it both ways. I thought I made it clear that I was referring to the practicalities of duplicating newsgroups, across hierarchies which are similar as far as the above mentioned newsgroups are concerned. This has nothing to do with devloution, or the politics thereof. I don't have a "problem" with england.* groups, but it seems silly to recreate groups in england.* that are already in uk.* where there is no cultural reason to have them duplicated inside england.* (or indeed wales.* etc) I hope the people who set up england.* don't have the same chip on their shoulder that you seem to! Cheers, Jamie .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 16:18: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta02-svc.server.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1E3E37B877; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:17:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from parish.my.domain ([62.253.88.75]) by mta02-svc.server.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000611001732.ISNR10065.mta02-svc.server.ntlworld.com@parish.my.domain>; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 00:17:32 +0000 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish.my.domain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA00701; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 00:17:54 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 00:17:53 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Jamie Jones Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Power to Serve England Message-ID: <20000611001753.D233@parish> References: <20000610235213.A233@parish> <200006102300.AAA34070@bishopston.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200006102300.AAA34070@bishopston.net>; from jamie@bishopston.net on Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 12:00:43AM +0100 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Cc: changed to -chat as it seems more appropriate] On Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 12:00:43AM +0100, Jamie Jones wrote: > > > Well, since Plaid Cymru and the SNP fought for, and have got, > > the first step towards independence, because they wanted Wales and > > Scotland to have a separate identity to England, why is it so wrong > > for we English to have a separate identity from Scotland and Wales? > > > > I wouldn't have a problem with > > {wales,scotland,ireland}.{consultants,jobs,media.tv} etc. > > > > Maybe you, personally, don't hold with devolution but many do and they > > can't have it both ways. > > I thought I made it clear that I was referring to the practicalities > of duplicating newsgroups, across hierarchies which are similar as > far as the above mentioned newsgroups are concerned. > > This has nothing to do with devloution, or the politics thereof. > The following, from you original post sounded political to me: I can see no reason shouldn't be under the uk heirarchy, or is this more a political than geographical split ? [snip] What are so special about these groups, as to not include us Welsh, or the Scots and Irish ? If they weren't meant that way then I apologize, I'm not trying to start a political debate/flamewar here. > I don't have a "problem" with england.* groups, but it seems silly > to recreate groups in england.* that are already in uk.* where there > is no cultural reason to have them duplicated inside england.* (or > indeed wales.* etc) > A quick search of my ISPs newsgroups for "england" only threw up these (except for New England related ones): alt.england.sux alt.england.sux.scotland.and.wales.rule.the.world alt.england.sux.wales.and.scotland.rule.the.world [no comment] > I hope the people who set up england.* don't have the same chip on > their shoulder that you seem to! > I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I obviously misinterpreted your comments and I apologize. > Cheers, > Jamie > > .. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Want a lean, mean, computing machine? Get rid of that excess FAT - install FreeBSD ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 10 23:55: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (obie.softweyr.com [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7248337BF68 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:55:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (Foolstrustident!@homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13621; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 00:54:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <394337DA.6F05BA42@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 00:55:22 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lvereen@cmp.com Cc: awolfe@cmp.com Subject: Revisionism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mr. Vereen, I am writing you directly because neither the print version nor the on-line version of your magazine, Embedded Systems Programming, includes information on who to contact for errors and omissions. I am writing about Mr. Alexander Wolfe's article, "Alliances Drive Embedded Linux Toward Prime Time" in Vol. 13 no. 6, June 2000. While generally factual and well written, Mr. Wolfe repeats a bit of revisionism that I must ask you to correct. In the article he writes And because Linux is "open source" -- a concept pioneered by the Cambridge, MA Free Software Foundation... This is patently untrue. Both the UNIX /usr/group and the Berkeley Software Distributions existed for many years before the FSF and the Gnu Project were created. Richard M. Stallman did NOT create the concept of open source software, his "innovation" was to use the distribution of open source software to advance his political agenda. Please clarify this situation for your readers. And perhaps while we're at it, Mr. Wolfe can clarify what the vendor of that internet radio is supposed to do when the user upgrades it to kernel 2.4.33 and glibc 6.1.43 and it no longer works? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message