From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 31 10:24:34 2000 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 31 10:24:29 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from server1.Kpac.org (Kpac.org [209.61.158.164]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CE437B400 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 10:24:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by server1.Kpac.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21877; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:18:16 -0600 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:18:16 -0600 Message-Id: <200012311818.MAA21877@server1.Kpac.org> To: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ñ ÍÎÂÛÌ ÃÎÄÎÌ From: journal@new_acropol.ru MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary = b2a52ca8c73b24da64d977c76b3b07fdc Sender: nobody@server1.Kpac.org Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a MIME encoded message. --b2a52ca8c73b24da64d977c76b3b07fdc Content-Type: text/html ; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333CF37B402 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10156; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:36:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.1/8.9.1) id eBVKa3T50786; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:36:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:36:02 -0500 (EST) To: Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: API CS20 support? Any good axp based server solutions? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14927.38434.715703.641740@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org scanner@jurai.net writes: <..> > Rackmount solution as a rackmount server solution. But I have no > experience with our AXP support. Is the CS20 useable at the current stage > of the ballgame? If not they have an UP2000+ main board that I can put in > a rack case. Is the UP2000+ supported? The HARDWARE.TXT file says the > UP1000 is, But I saw a post from mike saying that we've been running on > the 2000 for a while. I'm assuming the 2000 is the 2000+? <...> From a quick scan of their TRM, it looks like the 2000+ is basically a 2000 and should probably work. (albeit with 1 CPU, as we don't do MP on alpha yet). I have no idea what the CS20 is under the hood, I don't see any technical docs regarding the CS20 on API's site.. I'd hold off on buying a CS20 until you see some sort of an announcement that we support it. If anybody from API is reading this, I'd be happy to get FreeBSD going on a CS20... Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 31 14:19:49 2000 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 31 14:19:47 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3181437B402 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from beppo (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16623 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:19:47 -0800 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:19:46 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: rawhide breakage report... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I was sitting down today to try and finally try Doug's stuff and also to really fix the rawhide. Tsk. Sometime in the last week or so kernel's got broken so rawhide's don't boot. Sigh. It's hard to make progress when things go backward when you aren't looking. The breakage is at the point where the second PCI bus is (finally) being evaluated: pcib1: Horse Revision 3, Left Handed Saddle Revision 3, CAP Revision 2 Attaching Real Console sio1: gdb debugging port pci1: physical bus=0 found-> vendor=0x8086, dev=0x0482, revid=0x15 bus=0, slot=1, func=0 class=00-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 vendor=0x1077, dev=0x2200, revid=0x05 bus=0, slot=3, func=0 class=01-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 intpin=a, irq=12 map[10]: type 4, range 32, base 01ffff00, size 8, enabled map[14]: type 1, range 32, base 07fdf000, size 12, enabled pci1: on pcib1 eisab0: at device 1.0 on pci1 isa0: on eisab0 ... Can anyone save me a couple of hours and let me know what changed? -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 31 14:35:46 2000 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 31 14:35:43 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mail01a.rapidsite.net (mail01a.rapidsite.net [207.158.192.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F014437B400 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.ofehr.com (131.103.236.149) by mail01a.rapidsite.net (RS ver 1.0.58s) with SMTP id 014461026 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 17:35:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from miranda.ofehr.com (miranda.ofehr.com [192.168.67.200]) by ganymed.ofehr.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id eBVMZJd07511 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 23:35:20 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fehr@ofehr.com) Subject: RE: rawhide breakage report... Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 23:35:19 +0100 Message-ID: <744F8CC0DC48FA4C8757A01D3BFFF9074D03@miranda.ofehr.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: rawhide breakage report... Thread-Index: AcBzefQwWPi5JpD/SnKL9ijsYDCLDw== From: "Oliver Fehr" content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4397.0 To: , X-Loop-Detect: 1 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Might this help? Sources are current as of 12/30. /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:83: warning: initialization from incompatibl e pointer type /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:84: warning: initialization from incompatibl e pointer type /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c: In function `bd_strategy': /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:324: warning: assignment from incompatible p ointer type /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:326: warning: passing arg 5 of `bcache_strat egy' makes integer from pointer without a cast /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:326: warning: passing arg 6 of `bcache_strat egy' from incompatible pointer type /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:326: too few arguments to function `bcache_s trategy' *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot/arc. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/sys. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Matthew Jacob > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 11:20 PM > To: alpha@freebsd.org > Subject: rawhide breakage report... >=20 >=20 >=20 > I was sitting down today to try and finally try Doug's stuff=20 > and also to > really fix the rawhide. Tsk. Sometime in the last week or so=20 > kernel's got > broken so rawhide's don't boot. Sigh. It's hard to make=20 > progress when things > go backward when you aren't looking. >=20 > The breakage is at the point where the second PCI bus is=20 > (finally) being > evaluated: >=20 > pcib1: Horse Revision 3, Left Handed Saddle Revision 3, CAP Revision 2 > Attaching Real Console > sio1: gdb debugging port > pci1: physical bus=3D0 > found-> vendor=3D0x8086, dev=3D0x0482, revid=3D0x15 > bus=3D0, slot=3D1, func=3D0 > class=3D00-00-00, hdrtype=3D0x00, mfdev=3D0 > =20 > It should have continued on with: >=20 > .. > found-> vendor=3D0x1077, dev=3D0x2200, revid=3D0x05 > bus=3D0, slot=3D3, func=3D0 > class=3D01-00-00, hdrtype=3D0x00, mfdev=3D0 > subordinatebus=3D0 secondarybus=3D0 > intpin=3Da, irq=3D12 > map[10]: type 4, range 32, base 01ffff00, size 8, enabled > map[14]: type 1, range 32, base 07fdf000, size 12, enabled > pci1: on pcib1 > eisab0: at device 1.0 on pci1 > isa0: on eisab0 > .. >=20 >=20 > Can anyone save me a couple of hours and let me know what changed? >=20 > -matt >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message >=20 >=20 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 31 14:44:41 2000 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 31 14:44:37 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8E437B400 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from beppo (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16666; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:44:34 -0800 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:44:33 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Oliver Fehr Cc: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: RE: rawhide breakage report... In-Reply-To: <744F8CC0DC48FA4C8757A01D3BFFF9074D03@miranda.ofehr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org um, no, different area... On Sun, 31 Dec 2000, Oliver Fehr wrote: > Might this help? Sources are current as of 12/30. > > /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:83: warning: initialization from > incompatibl > e pointer type > /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:84: warning: initialization from > incompatibl > e pointer type > /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c: In function `bd_strategy': > /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:324: warning: assignment from > incompatible p > ointer type > /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:326: warning: passing arg 5 of > `bcache_strat > egy' makes integer from pointer without a cast > /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:326: warning: passing arg 6 of > `bcache_strat > egy' from incompatible pointer type > /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib/arcdisk.c:326: too few arguments to function > `bcache_s > trategy' > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot/arc/lib. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot/arc. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src/sys. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Matthew Jacob > > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 11:20 PM > > To: alpha@freebsd.org > > Subject: rawhide breakage report... > > > > > > > > I was sitting down today to try and finally try Doug's stuff > > and also to > > really fix the rawhide. Tsk. Sometime in the last week or so > > kernel's got > > broken so rawhide's don't boot. Sigh. It's hard to make > > progress when things > > go backward when you aren't looking. > > > > The breakage is at the point where the second PCI bus is > > (finally) being > > evaluated: > > > > pcib1: Horse Revision 3, Left Handed Saddle Revision 3, CAP Revision 2 > > Attaching Real Console > > sio1: gdb debugging port > > pci1: physical bus=0 > > found-> vendor=0x8086, dev=0x0482, revid=0x15 > > bus=0, slot=1, func=0 > > class=00-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 > > > > > It should have continued on with: > > > > .. > > found-> vendor=0x1077, dev=0x2200, revid=0x05 > > bus=0, slot=3, func=0 > > class=01-00-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 > > subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 > > intpin=a, irq=12 > > map[10]: type 4, range 32, base 01ffff00, size 8, enabled > > map[14]: type 1, range 32, base 07fdf000, size 12, enabled > > pci1: on pcib1 > > eisab0: at device 1.0 on pci1 > > isa0: on eisab0 > > .. > > > > > > Can anyone save me a couple of hours and let me know what changed? > > > > -matt > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 31 15:39: 2 2000 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 31 15:38:58 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from alphalinux.org (alphalinux.org [63.236.138.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 087EE37B402 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13402 invoked by uid 0); 31 Dec 2000 23:38:41 -0000 Received: from node-64-145-21-18.dslspeed.zyan.com (HELO alphalinux.org) (64.145.21.18) by alphalinux.org with SMTP; 31 Dec 2000 23:38:41 -0000 Sender: ppetrakis@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <3A4FC390.76265C6B@alphalinux.org> Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:38:56 -0500 From: Peter Petrakis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 alpha) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scanner@jurai.net Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: API CS20 support? Any good axp based server solutions? References: <14927.38434.715703.641740@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I have no idea what the CS20 is under the hood, I don't see any > technical docs regarding the CS20 on API's site.. I'd hold off on > buying a CS20 until you see some sort of an announcement that we > support it. > > If anybody from API is reading this, I'd be happy to get FreeBSD > going on a CS20... I'd be happy to help :-). I have access to a CS20 or two at work. I see no problem in BSD supporting the CS20. Tru64 see's it as a ES40 with only two processors (same southbridge). So if FreeBSD supports the ES40 you're pretty much there. The onboard scsi is a sym 53c8000 and it has UDMA 66 onboard. Besides that it has advanced I2C support and dual intel 10/100 ethernet. I'll try and install FreeBSD (sometime this week) and let you know what I find. I don't have much time on these things since they're currently being used for other more important purposes. I'll see what I can do. If you dont hear back from me in a week, please email me. Here's a dump from /proc/cpuinfo for the curious, I'm not sure if the system variation is correct. This IS an engineering prototype mind you. [root@localhost /root]# cat /proc/cpuinfo cpu : Alpha cpu model : Unknown cpu variation : 7 cpu revision : 0 cpu serial number : system type : Tsunami system variation : Clipper system revision : 0 system serial number : cycle frequency [Hz] : 833333333 timer frequency [Hz] : 1024.00 page size [bytes] : 8192 phys. address bits : 44 max. addr. space # : 255 BogoMIPS : 1656.75 kernel unaligned acc : 0 (pc=0,va=0) user unaligned acc : 0 (pc=0,va=0) platform string : API CS20D 833 MHz cpus detected : 2 CPUs probed 2 active 2 map 0x3 IPIs 321651358 Peter -- www.alphalinux.org Peter Petrakis Warrior/Engineer ppetrakis@alphalinux.org "Oh my God! They killed Xena! You bastards!!" " Who the hell are you!? Name's Ash Housewares..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 31 16:46:21 2000 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 31 16:46:14 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A8537B400; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from beppo (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16853; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:46:12 -0800 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:46:11 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Mike Smith Cc: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rawhide breakage report... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1031905328-978309178=:85056" Content-ID: Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-1031905328-978309178=:85056 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: > > > > Matthew Jacob writes: > > > > > > Can anyone save me a couple of hours and let me know what changed? > > > > > > -matt > > > > > What it turns out is that a card had PCIM_STATUS_CAPPRESENT set in the status register (Qlogic 2200, and the code that reads this got stuck in an infinite loop... I'm not sure whether this was due to bad reads from config space or whether it really was a bogus PCIM_STATUS_CAPPRESENT or what (see attach). It kinda looks like the config read stuff is broken because it accepted an offset of -1 :-), but there was a case before where a value of -1 was returned. I don't know this cap goop at all. Whaddya think? -matt --0-1031905328-978309178=:85056 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; NAME=cfgread Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: ATTACHMENT; FILENAME=cfgread Q0ZHUkVBRCBNSUQgNCAwLjMuMCBzeiA0IG9mZiAwIC0+IHBhZGRyIDB4Zjlj MDAzMDAxOCBkYXRhIDB4MjIwMDEwNzcgLT4gMHgyMjAwMTA3Nw0KQ0ZHUkVB RCBNSUQgNCAwLjMuMCBzeiAyIG9mZiAwIC0+IHBhZGRyIDB4ZjljMDAzMDAw OCBkYXRhIDB4MjIwMDEwNzcgLT4gMHgyMjAwMTA3Nw0KQ0ZHUkVBRCBNSUQg NCAwLjMuMCBzeiAyIG9mZiAyIC0+IHBhZGRyIDB4ZjljMDAzMDAwOCBkYXRh IDB4MjIwMDEwNzcgLT4gMHgyMjAwDQpDRkdSRUFEIE1JRCA0IDAuMy4wIHN6 IDIgb2ZmIDQgLT4gcGFkZHIgMHhmOWMwMDMwMDg4IGRhdGEgMHgyYjAwMTQ3 IC0+IDB4MmIwMDE0Nw0KQ0ZHUkVBRCBNSUQgNCAwLjMuMCBzeiAyIG9mZiA2 IC0+IHBhZGRyIDB4ZjljMDAzMDA4OCBkYXRhIDB4MmIwMDE0NyAtPiAweDJi MA0KQ0ZHUkVBRCBNSUQgNCAwLjMuMCBzeiAxIG9mZiAxMSAtPiBwYWRkciAw eGY5YzAwMzAxMDAgZGF0YSAweDEwMDAwMDUgLT4gMHgxDQpDRkdSRUFEIE1J RCA0IDAuMy4wIHN6IDEgb2ZmIDEwIC0+IHBhZGRyIDB4ZjljMDAzMDEwMCBk 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Re: rawhide breakage report... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:46:11 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:09:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: msmith@mass.osd.bsdi.com Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > What it turns out is that a card had PCIM_STATUS_CAPPRESENT set in the status > register (Qlogic 2200, and the code that reads this got stuck in an infinite > loop... I'm not sure whether this was due to bad reads from config space or > whether it really was a bogus PCIM_STATUS_CAPPRESENT or what (see attach). It > kinda looks like the config read stuff is broken because it accepted an offset > of -1 :-), but there was a case before where a value of -1 was returned. > > I don't know this cap goop at all. Whaddya think? nextptr = REG(ptrptr, 1); /* sanity check? */ The right sanity check probably involves looking at nextptr in the loop: /* * Read capability entries. */ while (nextptr != 0) { /* Sanity check */ if (nextptr > 255) { printf("illegal PCI extended capability offset %d\n", nexptr); return; } /* Find the next entry */ ptr = nextptr; nextptr = REG(ptr + 1, 1); It should never be < 0, since pci_read_config returns unsigned. Since you have some errant hardware, it'd be great if you could check and commit this. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message