From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 3:55:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBF414DD7; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 03:55:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.211]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA65F2; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:55:01 +0100 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22582; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:54:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:54:39 +0100 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Bill Maniatty Cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000123125439.A20851@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <200001230406.XAA43423@cs.rpi.edu> <20000123153526.I930@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000123153526.I930@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com>; from grog@lemis.com on Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 03:35:26PM +0800 Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -On [20000123 11:11], Greg Lehey (grog@lemis.com) wrote: >[adding -doc, which is more appropriate for some of the questions] > >On Saturday, 22 January 2000 at 23:06:41 -0500, Bill Maniatty wrote: >> I have a student this semester in my Operating Systems class who would like >> to become a bit more knowledgeable about systems software. I suggested >> that he learn a bit about how device drivers are written in FreeBSD >> as a minor project. My questions are: >> >> 1) Does any current documentation of how to write and/or install a >> device driver exist in English (note C != English)? > >Yes, with reservations. Big reservations. The main question is, are you going to use the default (old) style of Unix drivers (based on character and block devices with their appropriate cdevsw and bdevsw), or are you willing to have the student participate in the new style busspace/newbus system which is present in CURRENT (soon to be released 4.0)? >> We would love to have a level documentation like the document by >> Pragmatic at http://thc.pimmel.com/files/thc/bsdkern.html, we are >> looking for a how to guide. > >Somewhere we have a tutorial. I think it's been retired because it's >out of date, but it could be a very rewarding starting point for >somebody who wanted to work his way into the material and either >update it or bring out a new document based on the structure. This >would also give the student good visibility in the (Free)BSD >community. The Device Driver Writers Guide (DDWG) was retired because the contents were too old to apply to modern day FreeBSD. I am getting more and more progress to get the relevant background information to: a) write the busspace and newbus manpages b) write a new DDWG which will include migration paths for old drivers to the new style >> 2) If no existing documentation exists, would it be a good idea to >> put together a sort of how to guide for a simple driver (with an >> eye to generalization later if warranted)? Heh, I am working on that, except things keep interrupting my work. I was thinking of making a small document for the time being which gives some general clue to the community for the new type drivers, or at least summarises what has changed. In /usr/src/sys/pci there is meteor.c which still uses some old style driver code. You can compare that to most of the if_XYZ.c files by Bill Paul which make extensive use of the new system. Or take a look at Matthew N. Dodd's files and see even more examples. >> 3) If the answer to 2 is yes, can we get constructive help from the FreeBSD >> community? > >Definitely. -hackers would be the right forum there. I would also >personally commit to helping within the constraints of my other work. I'll second Greg here. I am here to write the documentation for this subject (on voluntarily basis of course) and I think that questions coming from your student, or from others for that matter, will make sure I keep on top of things and document them. Aside from -hackers, you might want to consider -newbus, which is the forum to discuss newbus in depth. >> Assuming that this constitutes an interesting project, what would be >> a good initial approach? I was considering: >> 1) Get and build the FreeBSD kernel (4.0?) Please use this yes. 4.0 has IMHO better bus architecture code to look into for writing drivers. >> 2) Choose a non-essential device with a simple preexisting driver. >> 3) Remove all trace of the driver from the kernel source. >> 4) Reapply the changes used to install the driver (perhaps one step at a time). >> We could suggest some simple sanity checks to support stepwise refinement. > >(1) and (2) are a good start. You don't need to remove the old >driver; it would in fact make it easier for debugging purposes if it >remained. Instead, choose another major number and name, and write a >new driver. This procedure is definitely *not* documented, but it's >the way we introduce new drivers, and I think a couple of other people >who have done it would be pleased to help. *nod* There are certainly people who are be able and willing to help. >A possibly better alternative is to find a device which isn't >currently supported by FreeBSD and write a driver for it. This would >have the advantage that the work would also be a contribution to >FreeBSD. The question that I can't answer here is: what would be an >appropriate device? Definately not an ethernet card. *g* Seems no-one can keep up with Bill Paul in that aspect. =) You could try usb devices and contact Nick Hibma for his expertise on that area. Also make sure the vendor is not problematic with handing out documentation. Intel and Motorola are good examples of companies who have pdf's available for download. >> If this is a good idea, I would like the following help from the FreeBSD >> community: >> 1) Identify a simple driver (perhaps something like a joystick >> driver?) > >I don't know if anybody uses it any more. The driver database (URL doesn't come to mind, it's on the freebsd.org site under project IIRC) has an entry from someone working on getting the joystick device to work under 4.0 and being compatible with the Linux one. >> 2) Identify all source code associated with the driver (including configuration >> files, makefiles etc...). Some files may have only one or two lines >> devoted to the driver, so we will need to know how to recognize such lines >> and would appreciate pointers to such lines. > >That should be relatively straightforward after examination of the old >tutorial, the sources and hier(7). If not, ask away. Important >directories are: > > /sys symlink to /usr/src/sys; I'll use it below > /sys/config generic configuration files > /sys/i386/config configuration files for i386 > /sys/dev sources for generic device drivers > /sys/isa sources for generic ISA device drivers > /sys/i386/isa sources for i386-only ISA device drivers Of course, in addition: /sys/pci Noteworthy header files: /usr/include/machine/bus.h /usr/include/machine/bus_memio.h /usr/include/machine/bus_pio.h /usr/include/machine/resource.h /usr/include/sys/bus.h /usr/include/sys/rman.h /sys/kern/subr_bus.c -- Jeroen Ruigrok vd W/Asmodai asmodai@[wxs.nl|bart.nl|freebsd.org] Documentation nutter/B-rated Coder BSD: Technical excellence at its best The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Ain't gonna spend the rest of my Life, quietly fading away... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 6:22:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from serio.al.rim.or.jp (serio.al.rim.or.jp [202.247.191.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3BE14CE5 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 06:22:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp) Received: from mail1.rim.or.jp by serio.al.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W/HMX-12) with ESMTP id XAA11276 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:22:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from rhea.sky.rim.or.jp (ppp510.kt.rim.or.jp [202.247.140.160]) by mail1.rim.or.jp (3.7W/) id XAA18432 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:22:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost.sky.rim.or.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rhea.sky.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W/rhea-1.2) with ESMTP id XAA44352 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:22:28 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:22:27 +0900 Message-ID: <14475.3747.312979.33508R@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp> From: Jun Kuriyama To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Translation of "High points" User-Agent: Wanderlust/1.0.3 (Notorious) SEMI/1.13.3 (Komaiko) FLIM/1.12.5 (Hirahata) MULE XEmacs/20.4 (Emerald) (i386--freebsd) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.13.3 - "Komaiko") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm reviewing Japanese Handbook to fix something missed at DocBook transition. I found a paragraph which I cannot understand. Could someone teach the meaning of that? ----- doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/books/handbook/eresources/chapter.sgml Again, we would like to request that you keep discussion in the technical mailing lists on a technical track. If you are only interested in the “high points” then it is suggested that you join freebsd-announce, which is intended only for infrequent traffic. ----- What the meaning of "high points" in this paragraph? Jun Kuriyama // kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp // kuriyama@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 7:20: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from aragorn.neomedia.it (aragorn.neomedia.it [195.103.207.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358F914C32 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:20:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bartequi@nojunk.com) Received: from bartequi.ottodomain.org (ppp56-pa4.neomedia.it [195.103.207.248]) by aragorn.neomedia.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA00835; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:19:48 +0100 (CET) From: Salvo Bartolotta Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:21:41 GMT Message-ID: <20000123.15214100@bartequi.ottodomain.org> Subject: Re: Translation of "High points" To: Jun Kuriyama Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <14475.3747.312979.33508R@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp> References: <14475.3747.312979.33508R@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp> X-Mailer: Supercalifragilis X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > ----- doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/books/handbook/eresources/chapter.sgml > Again, we would like to request that you keep discussion=20 in the > technical mailing lists on a technical track. If you are only > interested in the “high points” then it is suggested= =20 that > you join freebsd-announce, which is intended only for infrequent= > traffic. > ----- > What the meaning of "high points" in this paragraph? > Jun Kuriyama // kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp > // kuriyama@FreeBSD.org Dear Jun Kuriyama, just a user's opinion: "high" seems to mean "gory" here :-) Which is what freebsd-announce publishes every now and then: (a=20 summary of) the most important points. I hope NOT to be flamed for this ...=20 N.B. my_fake_antispam_domain =3D=3D> neomedia.it to e.mail to me. Best regards, Salvo =20 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 7:24:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (sol.cc.u-szeged.hu [160.114.8.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDAD61505A for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:24:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu) Received: from petra.hos.u-szeged.hu by sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (8.9.3+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id QAA26247; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:25:01 +0100 (MET) Received: by petra.hos.u-szeged.hu (Linux Smail3.2.0.92 #1) id m12COvm-000pBdC; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:27:58 +0000 () Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:27:58 +0100 From: Szilveszter Adam To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Translation of "High points" Message-ID: <20000123162758.A7382@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu> References: <14475.3747.312979.33508R@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <14475.3747.312979.33508R@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:22:27PM +0900, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > > I'm reviewing Japanese Handbook to fix something missed at DocBook > transition. I found a paragraph which I cannot understand. Could > someone teach the meaning of that? > > ----- doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/books/handbook/eresources/chapter.sgml > Again, we would like to request that you keep discussion in the > technical mailing lists on a technical track. If you are only > interested in the “high points” then it is suggested that > you join freebsd-announce, which is intended only for infrequent > traffic. > ----- > > What the meaning of "high points" in this paragraph? Hi! Although my mother tongue is not English either but I think it means: if you are only interested in the important events of FreeBSD development, you should subscribe to -announce because they are announced there anyway. It is for people who write in with occasional questions like "when will the new release be ready please?" to technical lists disturbing conversation. Best regards! Szilveszter ADAM from Hungary -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Szilveszter ADAM * JATE Szeged * email: sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu * * Homepage : none * alternate email: cc@flanker.itl.net.ua * * Finger sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu for PGP key. * * I prefer using the door instead of Windows(tm)... * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 8:48:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CF9F14D15; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:48:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from maniattb@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (maniattb@dishwasher.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.31]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA53658; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:48:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Bill Maniatty , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey , maniattb@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:54:39 +0100." <20000123125439.A20851@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:48:39 -0500 From: Bill Maniatty Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Jeroen: Jeroen Ruigrok (in response to Greg Lehey and myself): > -On [20000123 11:11], Greg Lehey (grog@lemis.com) wrote: > >[adding -doc, which is more appropriate for some of the questions] > > > >On Saturday, 22 January 2000 at 23:06:41 -0500, Bill Maniatty wrote: > > >> I have a student this semester in my Operating Systems class who would like > >> to become a bit more knowledgeable about systems software. I suggested > >> that he learn a bit about how device drivers are written in FreeBSD > >> as a minor project. My questions are: > >> > >> 1) Does any current documentation of how to write and/or install a > >> device driver exist in English (note C != English)? > > > >Yes, with reservations. > > Big reservations. The main question is, are you going to use the > default (old) style of Unix drivers (based on character and block > devices with their appropriate cdevsw and bdevsw), or are you willing to > have the student participate in the new style busspace/newbus system > which is present in CURRENT (soon to be released 4.0)? > > >> We would love to have a level of documentation like the document by > >> Pragmatic at http://thc.pimmel.com/files/thc/bsdkern.html, we are > >> looking for a how to guide. > > > >Somewhere we have a tutorial. I think it's been retired because it's > >out of date, but it could be a very rewarding starting point for > >somebody who wanted to work his way into the material and either > >update it or bring out a new document based on the structure. This > >would also give the student good visibility in the (Free)BSD > >community. > > The Device Driver Writers Guide (DDWG) was retired because the contents > were too old to apply to modern day FreeBSD. The document that I seem to remember FreeBSD having on line at one point had problems in my eyes: 1) It was too preliminary IMHO, the person who started it did not give enough detail to first time driver writers. 2) As you mentioned it became obsolete. 3) It was meant as a reference, not as a tutorial. Again I think Pragmatic's documentation exemplifies the style I am looking for, I want people to have an exercise to learn stepwise how to build a driver (my goal is to cultivate local expertise first). Actually the lack a reference or tutorial document is kind of damning in a way, since it gives hardware vendors a powerful excuse not to support FreeBSD in the way that say Lin*x is supported. > I am getting more and more > progress to get the relevant background information to: > > a) write the busspace and newbus manpages > b) write a new DDWG which will include migration paths for old > drivers to the new style These are good things. > >> 2) If no existing documentation exists, would it be a good idea to > >> put together a sort of how to guide for a simple driver (with an > >> eye to generalization later if warranted)? > > Heh, I am working on that, except things keep interrupting my work. > > I was thinking of making a small document for the time being which gives > some general clue to the community for the new type drivers, or at least > summarises what has changed. In /usr/src/sys/pci there is meteor.c > which still uses some old style driver code. You can compare that to > most of the if_XYZ.c files by Bill Paul which make extensive use of the > new system. Or take a look at Matthew N. Dodd's files and see even more > examples. If you have something for us to look at we would appreciate it, otherwise we may wind up rolling our own (in which event we would keep you informed). > >> 3) If the answer to 2 is yes, can we get constructive help from the FreeBSD > >> community? > > > >Definitely. -hackers would be the right forum there. I would also > >personally commit to helping within the constraints of my other work. > > I'll second Greg here. I am here to write the documentation for this > subject (on voluntarily basis of course) and I think that questions > coming from your student, or from others for that matter, will make sure > I keep on top of things and document them. Aside from -hackers, you > might want to consider -newbus, which is the forum to discuss newbus in > depth. Thanks, will do. > >> Assuming that this constitutes an interesting project, what would be > >> a good initial approach? I was considering: > >> 1) Get and build the FreeBSD kernel (4.0?) > > Please use this yes. 4.0 has IMHO better bus architecture code to look > into for writing drivers. > > >> 2) Choose a non-essential device with a simple preexisting driver. > >> 3) Remove all trace of the driver from the kernel source. > >> 4) Reapply the changes used to install the driver (perhaps one step at a time). > >> We could suggest some simple sanity checks to support stepwise refinement. > > > >(1) and (2) are a good start. You don't need to remove the old > >driver; it would in fact make it easier for debugging purposes if it > >remained. Instead, choose another major number and name, and write a > >new driver. This procedure is definitely *not* documented, but it's > >the way we introduce new drivers, and I think a couple of other people > >who have done it would be pleased to help. > > *nod* There are certainly people who are be able and willing to help. > > >A possibly better alternative is to find a device which isn't > >currently supported by FreeBSD and write a driver for it. This would > >have the advantage that the work would also be a contribution to > >FreeBSD. The question that I can't answer here is: what would be an > >appropriate device? First we want to get the mechanism of driver installation down, then try our hands at writing our own driver. I fear that if we roll our own driver software we may find that if we have errors (not that we ever have errors mind you :-) we may not be able to isolate the cause. This is why I was leaning towards reinstalling a working driver first. > Definately not an ethernet card. *g* > Seems no-one can keep up with Bill Paul in that aspect. =) We probably could not compete :-), but we are interested in ethernet card drivers (at some point) and would like to learn. > You could try usb devices and contact Nick Hibma for his expertise on > that area. How mature is the USB driver technology? If it is pretty preliminary we may wish to visit that later. Please recall that we are on a learning curve here. > Also make sure the vendor is not problematic with handing out > documentation. Intel and Motorola are good examples of companies who > have pdf's available for download. Very good idea. > >> If this is a good idea, I would like the following help from the FreeBSD > >> community: > >> 1) Identify a simple driver (perhaps something like a joystick > >> driver?) > > > >I don't know if anybody uses it any more. > > The driver database (URL doesn't come to mind, it's on the freebsd.org > site under project IIRC) has an entry from someone working on getting > the joystick device to work under 4.0 and being compatible with the > Linux one. Thanks, I only suggested the joystick driver because I thought it would be one of the least difficult drivers (and perhaps easy to test). > >> 2) Identify all source code associated with the driver (including configuration > >> files, makefiles etc...). Some files may have only one or two lines > >> devoted to the driver, so we will need to know how to recognize such lines > >> and would appreciate pointers to such lines. > > > >That should be relatively straightforward after examination of the old > >tutorial, the sources and hier(7). If not, ask away. Important > >directories are: > > > > /sys symlink to /usr/src/sys; I'll use it below > > /sys/config generic configuration files > > /sys/i386/config configuration files for i386 > > /sys/dev sources for generic device drivers > > /sys/isa sources for generic ISA device drivers > > /sys/i386/isa sources for i386-only ISA device drivers > > Of course, in addition: > > /sys/pci > > Noteworthy header files: > > /usr/include/machine/bus.h > /usr/include/machine/bus_memio.h > /usr/include/machine/bus_pio.h > /usr/include/machine/resource.h > /usr/include/sys/bus.h > /usr/include/sys/rman.h > /sys/kern/subr_bus.c Thanks for your help Jeroen (and Greg), this kind of input is very constructive. Regards; Bill Maniatty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 13:59:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DEB514FD6; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:59:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 19EDC2DC09; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:59:02 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 662F87811; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:59:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B46410E10; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:59:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:59:23 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Bill Maniatty Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel In-Reply-To: <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Bill Maniatty wrote: > > Definately not an ethernet card. *g* > > Seems no-one can keep up with Bill Paul in that aspect. =) > > We probably could not compete :-), but we are interested in ethernet > card drivers (at some point) and would like to learn. > > > You could try usb devices and contact Nick Hibma for his expertise on > > that area. > > How mature is the USB driver technology? If it is pretty preliminary > we may wish to visit that later. Please recall that we are on a learning > curve here. Another thing to consider (AFAIU the issues here, of course :-) is whether to choose a device that sits directly on one of standard buses (like PCI or ISA), or has intermediate bus abstraction layer in between (like e.g. ppbus or usb). I would assume that learning the latter would take more time. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 14:32:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from azazel.zer0.org (azazel.zer0.org [209.133.53.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B68C14C88 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:32:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@azazel.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by azazel.zer0.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id OAA61463; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:31:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:31:47 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Szilveszter Adam Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Translation of "High points" Message-ID: <20000123143147.A61414@azazel.zer0.org> References: <14475.3747.312979.33508R@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp> <20000123162758.A7382@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000123162758.A7382@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu>; from sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu on Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 04:27:58PM +0100 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 04:27:58PM +0100, Szilveszter Adam wrote: > On Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:22:27PM +0900, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > > > > I'm reviewing Japanese Handbook to fix something missed at DocBook > > transition. I found a paragraph which I cannot understand. Could > > someone teach the meaning of that? > > > > ----- doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/books/handbook/eresources/chapter.sgml > > Again, we would like to request that you keep discussion in the > > technical mailing lists on a technical track. If you are only > > interested in the “high points” then it is suggested that > > you join freebsd-announce, which is intended only for infrequent > > traffic. > > ----- > > > > What the meaning of "high points" in this paragraph? > > Although my mother tongue is not English either but I think it means: if you > are only interested in the important events of FreeBSD development, you > should subscribe to -announce because they are announced there anyway. It is This is correct. The original author used "high points" to mean "important events". Since it caused confusion, perhaps it should be changed in the English handbook as well. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Failing sardine factory cans employees! mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 16:41: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles537.castles.com [208.214.165.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A7614D18; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:41:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09005; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:49:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200001240049.QAA09005@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Bill Maniatty Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:48:39 EST." <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:49:18 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Actually the lack a reference or tutorial document is kind of damning > in a way, since it gives hardware vendors a powerful excuse not to > support FreeBSD in the way that say Lin*x is supported. We have a better solution; they just give us the documentation and we write the drivers for them. The end result is a better driver, produced in less time, and with a motivated maintainer. I've also written skeleton drivers for hardware vendors; typically they just have to fill in the very lowest level of the driver for their device, the rest can be generated in a couple of hours based on only the very simplest description. Writing documentation is a resource-sucking nuisance; supporting outdated documentation even more so. The BSD driver model is sufficiently simple that it's fair to say that if you can't work it out from the code, you probably shouldn't be writing a driver in the first place. That's not to say that a document describing the process wouldn't be good, merely that such a document isn't actually going to help _us_ very much at all. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 17:21:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from taurus.cs.albany.edu (taurus.cs.albany.edu [169.226.2.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D122814C4F; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:21:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from maniatty@cs.albany.edu) Received: from richard.cs.albany.edu (richard.cs.albany.edu [169.226.2.48]) by taurus.cs.albany.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA22758; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:21:30 -0500 (EST) From: "William A. Maniatty" Received: (from maniatty@localhost) by richard.cs.albany.edu (SMI-8.6/CLI2) id UAA01945; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:23:01 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:23:01 -0500 Message-Id: <200001240123.UAA01945@richard.cs.albany.edu> To: maniattb@cs.rpi.edu, msmith@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org, asmodai@wxs.nl, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, grog@lemis.com, maniatty@cs.albany.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith Writes (in response to me): > >> >> Actually the lack a reference or tutorial document is kind of damning >> in a way, since it gives hardware vendors a powerful excuse not to >> support FreeBSD in the way that say Lin*x is supported. > >We have a better solution; they just give us the documentation and we >write the drivers for them. The end result is a better driver, produced >in less time, and with a motivated maintainer. This might not be right, many vendors don't want their competitors to know their interface specification (to prevent cheap clones). FreeBSD does not have that restriction, so you may have it backwards. >I've also written skeleton drivers for hardware vendors; typically they >just have to fill in the very lowest level of the driver for their device, >the rest can be generated in a couple of hours based on only the very >simplest description. So where is that very simplest description written, maintained and published? >Writing documentation is a resource-sucking nuisance; supporting outdated >documentation even more so. The BSD driver model is sufficiently simple >that it's fair to say that if you can't work it out from the code, you >probably shouldn't be writing a driver in the first place. That's not to >say that a document describing the process wouldn't be good, merely that >such a document isn't actually going to help _us_ very much at all. I do not happen to agree. A better solution is to lower the barrier to entry so that people (including hardware vendors) can supply drivers. Right now the situation is that both sides say "Documentation is not in our best interest, so you cannot have any.", which is bad. Actually such a document COULD INCREASE DEVICE SUPPORT which is a MAJOR FACTOR in people's decision to use or avoid an OS. Perhaps less time could be spent whining about lack of users and how users don't have clue and more time could be spent making the good technology accessible. Regards: Bill Maniatty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 18: 5: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92A915093; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:04:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA97916; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:02:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id TAA47817; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:02:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200001240202.TAA47817@harmony.village.org> To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Cc: Bill Maniatty , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:54:39 +0100." <20000123125439.A20851@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <20000123125439.A20851@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <200001230406.XAA43423@cs.rpi.edu> <20000123153526.I930@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:02:38 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd also concentrate more on the relatively completely newbused drivers: dev/ed dev/ep dev/sn and ignore the incomplete ones, of which only one comes to bind (aha). Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 18:24:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.4.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD32415607; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:24:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02060; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:24:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wollman) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:24:19 -0500 (EST) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <200001240224.VAA02060@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> To: Peter Jeremy Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT Mailing List , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Group-Reply-To: doc@freebsd.org Folowup-To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: With feature freeze being in place In-Reply-To: <00Jan24.111112est.115220@border.alcanet.com.au> References: <20000122210136.B18600@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <00Jan24.111112est.115220@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org < said: > Comparing LINT and GENERIC is made more difficult by the significantly > different ordering. Is there some good reason for this, or would an > offer of GENERIC re-written into the same order as LINT be accepted? Speaking as the person who attempted to impart some semblance of order to LINT after it last outgrew its britches.... LINT was organized so as to group related devices together, along with their options. It is not particularly attempting to ape GENERIC (or vice versa!) but was rather organized so as to assist Jane User in locating the obscure option she needs to make the mumblefrotz driver gronkulate properly. Of course, at the same time, it's also trying to be a tool to enhance test coverage. So, generally speaking, options that users might need to set should be described near the devices or subsystems to which they pertain. Options that users don't need to set shouldn't exist at all. In general, the descriptions should be succinct and descriptive in nature; for more information, the user should be directed to a manual page. (IWBRNI the config manual were updated with information about how config works now, and descriptions of all the options and devices were added. Any troff weenies out there looking to make a heroic landing on SMM:02 atoll?) > Also, what is the best approach to submitting documentation for the > `undocumented' options in LINT? Organized them usefully, and send in one giant patch. Then nag people for a few months (updating the giant patch as required to merge changes) until it gets committed. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 20:50:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 099A8151A8; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:50:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (j13.ktb6.jaring.my [161.142.234.27]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12824; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:19:41 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02849; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:39:21 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:39:21 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Bill Maniatty Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000124123920.F2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <20000123125439.A20851@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu>; from maniattb@cs.rpi.edu on Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 11:48:39AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 23 January 2000 at 11:48:39 -0500, Bill Maniatty wrote: > Hello Jeroen: > Jeroen Ruigrok (in response to Greg Lehey and myself): > >> -On [20000123 11:11], Greg Lehey (grog@lemis.com) wrote: >>>> 2) Choose a non-essential device with a simple preexisting driver. >>>> 3) Remove all trace of the driver from the kernel source. >>>> 4) Reapply the changes used to install the driver (perhaps one step at a time). >>>> We could suggest some simple sanity checks to support stepwise refinement. >>> >>> (1) and (2) are a good start. You don't need to remove the old >>> driver; it would in fact make it easier for debugging purposes if it >>> remained. Instead, choose another major number and name, and write a >>> new driver. This procedure is definitely *not* documented, but it's >>> the way we introduce new drivers, and I think a couple of other people >>> who have done it would be pleased to help. >> >> *nod* There are certainly people who are be able and willing to help. >> >>> A possibly better alternative is to find a device which isn't >>> currently supported by FreeBSD and write a driver for it. This would >>> have the advantage that the work would also be a contribution to >>> FreeBSD. The question that I can't answer here is: what would be an >>> appropriate device? > > First we want to get the mechanism of driver installation down, then > try our hands at writing our own driver. I fear that if we roll our > own driver software we may find that if we have errors (not that we > ever have errors mind you :-) we may not be able to isolate the > cause. This is why I was leaning towards reinstalling a working > driver first. There are two almost completely separate issues in writing drivers: 1. Writing the code to deal with the device. Having good vendor documentation helps here. 2. Fitting this code into the BSD framework. Having good OS documentation helps here. I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate comments, and so what you see from the code is mainly tactics, not strategy. For the fun of it, go through the sources in /usr/src/sys/pci and try to identify the hardware which each driver supports. The newer ones are very good in this respect, but I'd guess there would be between 10% and 20% of the files where you will be left wondering what they do. Read the code and you'll see how they do it, but you may find that that isn't enough for you :-) >> You could try usb devices and contact Nick Hibma for his expertise on >> that area. > > How mature is the USB driver technology? If it is pretty > preliminary we may wish to visit that later. Please recall that we > are on a learning curve here. I've been meaning to look at USB stuff too. So far, I haven't been brave enough. I do think that the idea of taking an existing driver and cloning it is a good one. Maybe we can identify an old and mouldy one which needs rewriting. I've heard things about the floppy disk driver, but I'm not sure that it hasn't already been done, though the code suggests it's pretty old. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 21:11:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF00C15005; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:11:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from maniattb@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (maniattb@dishwasher.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.31]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA68097; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:11:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200001240511.AAA68097@cs.rpi.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Bill Maniatty , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, maniattb@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:39:21 +0800." <20000124123920.F2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:11:08 -0500 From: Bill Maniatty Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Sunday, 23 January 2000 at 11:48:39 -0500, Bill Maniatty wrote: > > Hello Jeroen: > > Jeroen Ruigrok (in response to Greg Lehey and myself): > > > >> -On [20000123 11:11], Greg Lehey (grog@lemis.com) wrote: > >>>> 2) Choose a non-essential device with a simple preexisting driver. > >>>> 3) Remove all trace of the driver from the kernel source. > >>>> 4) Reapply the changes used to install the driver (perhaps one step at a time). > >>>> We could suggest some simple sanity checks to support stepwise refinement. > >>> > >>> (1) and (2) are a good start. You don't need to remove the old > >>> driver; it would in fact make it easier for debugging purposes if it > >>> remained. Instead, choose another major number and name, and write a > >>> new driver. This procedure is definitely *not* documented, but it's > >>> the way we introduce new drivers, and I think a couple of other people > >>> who have done it would be pleased to help. > >> > >> *nod* There are certainly people who are be able and willing to help. > >> > >>> A possibly better alternative is to find a device which isn't > >>> currently supported by FreeBSD and write a driver for it. This would > >>> have the advantage that the work would also be a contribution to > >>> FreeBSD. The question that I can't answer here is: what would be an > >>> appropriate device? > > > > First we want to get the mechanism of driver installation down, then > > try our hands at writing our own driver. I fear that if we roll our > > own driver software we may find that if we have errors (not that we > > ever have errors mind you :-) we may not be able to isolate the > > cause. This is why I was leaning towards reinstalling a working > > driver first. > > There are two almost completely separate issues in writing drivers: > > 1. Writing the code to deal with the device. Having good vendor > documentation helps here. > > 2. Fitting this code into the BSD framework. Having good OS > documentation helps here. Good point, while I would like to see more vendors step up and document their device interfaces, that part is not within grasp. > I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It > certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to > seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate > comments, and so what you see from the code is mainly tactics, not > strategy. For the fun of it, go through the sources in > /usr/src/sys/pci and try to identify the hardware which each driver > supports. The newer ones are very good in this respect, but I'd guess > there would be between 10% and 20% of the files where you will be left > wondering what they do. Read the code and you'll see how they do it, > but you may find that that isn't enough for you :-) Thanks Greg, these remarks confirm my suspiscions. [deletia] > I do think that the idea of taking an existing driver and cloning it > is a good one. Maybe we can identify an old and mouldy one which > needs rewriting. I've heard things about the floppy disk driver, but > I'm not sure that it hasn't already been done, though the code > suggests it's pretty old. I think that might be a good idea, but right now we might be better served by simply playing with a modern driver and what the installation process is. Again we want to understand how to install a driver and where it interfaces with the Kernel. But the idea of updating an older driver to the modern structure is attractive. Greg, thanks for your constructive input. Regards: Bill Maniatty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 22:27:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles537.castles.com [208.214.165.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AF1D152A0; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:27:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10110; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:35:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200001240635.WAA10110@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Bill Maniatty , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:39:21 +0800." <20000124123920.F2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:35:53 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It > certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to > seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate > comments, and so what you see from the code is mainly tactics, not > strategy. You miss my point; you don't want to be writing a driver until you know what you're doing. Documentation on an OS' driver interface won't teach you that; it's something that's really only ever gleaned from experience. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 22:47:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A535215095; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:47:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA31745; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:47:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:47:43 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Mike Smith Cc: Greg Lehey , Bill Maniatty , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel In-Reply-To: <200001240635.WAA10110@mass.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Mike Smith wrote: > > I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It > > certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to > > seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate > > comments, and so what you see from the code is mainly tactics, not > > strategy. > > You miss my point; you don't want to be writing a driver until you know > what you're doing. Documentation on an OS' driver interface won't teach > you that; it's something that's really only ever gleaned from experience. The problem is, you can't even find what the interfaces are. Reading the code isn't very useful if you can't even find the right place to start from. At least the interface points could be listed, so that someone would know where to begin. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include C & Java programming, FreeBSD, chuckr@picnic.mat.net | electronics, communications, and signal processing. New Year's Resolution: I will not sphroxify gullible people into looking up fictitious words in the dictionary. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 23:15:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from taurus.cs.albany.edu (taurus.cs.albany.edu [169.226.2.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC5014FB5; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:15:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from maniatty@cs.albany.edu) Received: from richard.cs.albany.edu (richard.cs.albany.edu [169.226.2.48]) by taurus.cs.albany.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA23346; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:15:04 -0500 (EST) From: "William A. Maniatty" Received: (from maniatty@localhost) by richard.cs.albany.edu (SMI-8.6/CLI2) id CAA02016; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:16:36 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:16:36 -0500 Message-Id: <200001240716.CAA02016@richard.cs.albany.edu> To: chuckr@picnic.mat.net, msmith@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org, asmodai@wxs.nl, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, grog@lemis.com, maniattb@cs.rpi.edu, maniatty@cs.albany.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chuck Robey writes: >On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Mike Smith wrote: > >> > I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It >> > certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to >> > seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate >> > comments, and so what you see from the code is mainly tactics, not >> > strategy. >> >> You miss my point; you don't want to be writing a driver until you know >> what you're doing. Documentation on an OS' driver interface won't teach >> you that; it's something that's really only ever gleaned from experience. > >The problem is, you can't even find what the interfaces are. Reading the >code isn't very useful if you can't even find the right place to start >from. At least the interface points could be listed, so that someone >would know where to begin. Both Chuck Robey and Mike Smith have some points, but that won't stop me from giving my opinion :-). Mike is correct that experience is key to being a solid systems software developer, who writes device drivers. Now the next question is how can someone get experience? By developing systems software (which by the way they should only do if they have experience at it :-)). Traditionally there are two approaches: 1) Have a friend available and bug them for help when you get stuck :-) 2) Read the documentation. 3) Read the code and lose a whole lot of productivity without certainty of figuring it out on your own. 4) Dismiss the whole problem as unmanageable and throw your weight behind a more productive project. Many people cannot do 1 (but mailing lists like this help a lot!) since they don't have a kernel developer just across the hall. This leaves 2, which is not an option right now either. Options 3 and 4 are still open, and my bet is a lot of people take option 4, say going over to something like Linux because it *seems* to have more documentation (the FreeBSD man pages really are good for seasoned programmers though!). The problem is that most people who do option 4) do so silently and in larger numbers than you might think. A could document (combined with some of 3) would probably help. Actually a document with a step by step development of a very simple driver might actually tell someone how to write a driver AND give them their first experience at writing a driver :-). Regards: Bill Maniatty Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Tell a man that he could learn to fish but that teaching him how is a nuisance and he will go to your competitors fish market. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 23:28:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E4E15111; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:28:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA32844; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:28:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:28:23 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: "William A. Maniatty" Cc: msmith@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, asmodai@wxs.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com, maniattb@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel In-Reply-To: <200001240716.CAA02016@richard.cs.albany.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, William A. Maniatty wrote: > Both Chuck Robey and Mike Smith have some points, but that won't > stop me from giving my opinion :-). Mike is correct that experience is > key to being a solid systems software developer, who writes device drivers. > Now the next question is how can someone get experience? By developing > systems software (which by the way they should only do if they have > experience at it :-)). > > Traditionally there are two approaches: > 1) Have a friend available and bug them for help when you get stuck :-) > 2) Read the documentation. > 3) Read the code and lose a whole lot of productivity without certainty > of figuring it out on your own. > 4) Dismiss the whole problem as unmanageable and throw your > weight behind a more productive project. I know where Mike's coming from. Wait until the next guy posts on the list "I don't really know how to program, but please tell what 'C' is, and how to write a device driver". We had a pretty nasty flamewar over that maybe (I think) 9 months ago, and it still hurts folks, to be accused of conceit, when the guy was asking a grossly unanswerable question, and wouldn't believe it couldn't be boiled down to a 4 paragraph "device drivers for dummies" thing. Mike wants to avoid dealing with a horde of folks like that. I can't really blame Mike, it's impossible to make people understand that you can't boil everything down to a 30 second sound bite. BUT I still wish there was a map to interfaces. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 23:42:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E887F152AD; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:42:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA52455; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:42:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:42:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: "William A. Maniatty" Cc: chuckr@picnic.mat.net, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, asmodai@wxs.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com, maniattb@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel In-Reply-To: <200001240716.CAA02016@richard.cs.albany.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, William A. Maniatty wrote: > Actually a document with a step by step development of a very simple > driver might actually tell someone how to write a driver AND give them > their first experience at writing a driver :-). The Digital Unix device driver writers guides are kinda nifty like that. Someone else was talking about the BSD/OS 'dog polisher' example driver as a good reference. :) -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 23:43:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from taurus.cs.albany.edu (taurus.cs.albany.edu [169.226.2.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08B2157A6; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:43:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from maniatty@cs.albany.edu) Received: from richard.cs.albany.edu (richard.cs.albany.edu [169.226.2.48]) by taurus.cs.albany.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA23380; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:43:11 -0500 (EST) From: "William A. Maniatty" Received: (from maniatty@localhost) by richard.cs.albany.edu (SMI-8.6/CLI2) id CAA02021; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:44:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:44:43 -0500 Message-Id: <200001240744.CAA02021@richard.cs.albany.edu> To: chuckr@picnic.mat.net, maniatty@cs.albany.edu Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org, asmodai@wxs.nl, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, grog@lemis.com, maniattb@cs.rpi.edu, msmith@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi There: Chuck Robey Writes: >I know where Mike's coming from. Wait until the next guy posts on the >list "I don't really know how to program, but please tell what 'C' is, and >how to write a device driver". We had a pretty nasty flamewar over that >maybe (I think) 9 months ago, and it still hurts folks, to be accused of >conceit, when the guy was asking a grossly unanswerable question, and >wouldn't believe it couldn't be boiled down to a 4 paragraph "device >drivers for dummies" thing. Mike wants to avoid dealing with a horde of >folks like that. > >I can't really blame Mike, it's impossible to make people understand that >you can't boil everything down to a 30 second sound bite. BUT I still >wish there was a map to interfaces. Ah! I wasn't aware of this. I would be somewhat thin skinned too, too many requests for a free lunch can be a problem. On the other hand I still think: (i) I'd still like my student to take a crack at it, since he would pick up some understanding of kernel programming by doing it (a good thing!) (ii) the project might help motivated (and good) people pick up FreeBSD kernel programming and (iii) people can be pointed to the manual and told to return if they have a specific question. Regards: Bill Maniatty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 23 23:57:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from taurus.cs.albany.edu (taurus.cs.albany.edu [169.226.2.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 098FA158C5; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:57:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from maniatty@cs.albany.edu) Received: from richard.cs.albany.edu (richard.cs.albany.edu [169.226.2.48]) by taurus.cs.albany.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA23393; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:57:02 -0500 (EST) From: "William A. Maniatty" Received: (from maniatty@localhost) by richard.cs.albany.edu (SMI-8.6/CLI2) id CAA02026; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:58:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:58:34 -0500 Message-Id: <200001240758.CAA02026@richard.cs.albany.edu> To: maniatty@cs.albany.edu, winter@jurai.net Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org, asmodai@wxs.nl, chuckr@picnic.mat.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, grog@lemis.com, maniattb@cs.rpi.edu, msmith@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Dodd wrote: [stuff about stepwise refinement approach deleted] >The Digital Unix device driver writers guides are kinda nifty like that. > Is it possible to get a look at the digital Unix guides, that might be a good starting point. Are they on line (perhaps you have a URL)? > Is it possible to get a look at the digital Unix guides? >Someone else was talking about the BSD/OS 'dog polisher' example driver as >a good reference. :) I'm probably not quite cool enough to be in on the joke here, but what is a dog polisher? Thanks for the friendly words: Bill Maniatty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 0:25:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D26E31500D; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:25:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA52801; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 03:25:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 03:25:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: "William A. Maniatty" Cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org, asmodai@wxs.nl, chuckr@picnic.mat.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, grog@lemis.com, maniattb@cs.rpi.edu, msmith@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel In-Reply-To: <200001240758.CAA02026@richard.cs.albany.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, William A. Maniatty wrote: > I'm probably not quite cool enough to be in on the joke here, but what > is a dog polisher? You use it to polish your dog. Since all good dog polishers connect to computers running unix, you need a device driver to interface with the dog polisher. You need to be able to tell the dog polisher what size dog is to be loaded, how long the dog is to be polished and you will wish to be notified when the dog is done. :) I'm not making this up. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 0:48:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72011571A; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:48:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p14-dn03kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [210.232.224.143]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) with ESMTP id RAA28178; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:47:57 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <388C0FED.706330D0@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:40:13 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Maniatty Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel References: <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bill Maniatty wrote: > > First we want to get the mechanism of driver installation down, then > try our hands at writing our own driver. I fear that if we roll our own > driver software we may find that if we have errors (not that we ever have > errors mind you :-) we may not be able to isolate the cause. This is > why I was leaning towards reinstalling a working driver first. You won't have any trouble at all with basic driver installation. In fact, this is driver skeleton, that can be templated (and used to... but I don't know if we have newbus templates or not). Notice that most developers use kld to develop their drivers. Not having to recompile the kernel and reboot really helps. :-) There exists one tutorial-style guide to writing kld's. It's a "hacking" guide to the use of kld's as a way to introduce back-doors in FreeBSD, and though it's somewhat "unclean" wrt to interface description, it's an effective tutorial. I'm sure it can be found from FreeBSD's web site. As a next step, I suggest writing "virtual" drivers, not bound to any hardware. There are many such drivers in the tree. As a trivial example, and a favorite of many, the screen savers. The above will get you proficient with the basics of writing device drivers, but still leave a lot out. Let's see... > > Definately not an ethernet card. *g* > > Seems no-one can keep up with Bill Paul in that aspect. =) > > We probably could not compete :-), but we are interested in ethernet > card drivers (at some point) and would like to learn. > > > You could try usb devices and contact Nick Hibma for his expertise on > > that area. > > How mature is the USB driver technology? If it is pretty preliminary > we may wish to visit that later. Please recall that we are on a learning > curve here. If we support ethernet cards on USB, I'd say it's pretty mature. :-) Anyway, here is what virtual drivers won't teach: how to get resources, which will vary from bus to bus, how to interact with some of the kernel subsystems... How does one write a tun device? How does one write a network device? How does one write a network protocol? How does one write a CAM device (more than one type exist -- some virtual and some not)? How does one write a bus device? When to write a bus (newpcm uses a bus of it's own, if I'm not mistaken)? These problems are mostly distinct from each other, and their usefulness varies. Certainly, a tutorial covering newbus and the main bus types (usb, isa, pci) would be useful and not too difficult to write. CardBus and PCMCIA would be very useful, but we'll have to finish that first :-). But it gets complicated from there on. Writing a tutorial on even a subsection of CAM would be very time-consuming. I assume the same can be said of network devices in general. It will probably not be viable to cover more than one such subject, and their usefulness would be somewhat restricted. On the other hand, it is precisely this kind of tutorial that is mostly needed, since all of what I mentioned before can be dealt with on the fly, just by copying source from existing devices. Now... let me see if I can recall some of the gotcha's (notice that I have never written a newbus device driver). Writing a device driver to exotic devices, as long as you have the documentation for it, is really simple. It's when you have to interact to kernel subsystems that steepens the learning curve. Getting a MYDEVICE into memory is trivial. Just steal the skeleton from the source of some existing device. Julian had a device skeleton generator way back, I don't know if there is a newbus equivalent or not. As long as a device is just inb/outb (I seem to recall newbus have a replacement for these), things are mostly trivial. Covering what you can and cannot do in an interrupt context, the exact working of our spl*() functions (not just theory, but the practice of when to use them and when not to), transfering data to/from user space, setting up dma transfers, and what exactly happens in a tsleep() (DURING the tsleep(), mind you :) are the FAQs, I think. Also, how to create a kernel thread to lighten the load on the interrupt handler (ie, queue work to be done outside the interrupt context) would be very useful too, and it's not too much black magic. Documenting the available debugging tools and useful debugging techniques would be mostly welcome. Aside from "how do I use the kernel debugger", use of tools such as truss, and loading symbol tables to kld's (see Greg Lehey's documentation on debugging vinum) would be useful tutorials. Once you got the above, and possibly created some useful driver templates in the process, I'd say choose a subsystem, and start some in-depth tutorial. Stay away from FS work, as our interfaces are bound to change. CAM is very stable, and SCSI drivers are always useful, so that's one possible field. Network devices would probably take less time, though (that's a wild guess on my part, though). -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "2 b or not to b" meaning varies depending on whether one uses the 79 or the 83 standard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 1:15:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F981158C7; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.196]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with ESMTP id FOU1OB01.58T; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:14:35 +0100 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02596; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:04:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:04:10 +0100 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mike Smith Cc: Greg Lehey , Bill Maniatty , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000124100410.A691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <20000124123920.F2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <200001240635.WAA10110@mass.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200001240635.WAA10110@mass.cdrom.com>; from msmith@freebsd.org on Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 10:35:53PM -0800 Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -On [20000124 08:01], Mike Smith (msmith@freebsd.org) wrote: >> I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It >> certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to >> seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate >> comments, and so what you see from the code is mainly tactics, not >> strategy. > >You miss my point; you don't want to be writing a driver until you know >what you're doing. Documentation on an OS' driver interface won't teach >you that; it's something that's really only ever gleaned from experience. This I agree on with Mike. Writing device drivers isn't like writing an application. The documentation I am writing will definately not be a tutorial style piece of documentation, but a reference guide with sufficient background material so that people a bit familiar with FreeBSD on source level (note the ``a bit'') will get enough ideas and clues from it to proceed forwards. I do not think making it a tutorial will be beneficial in the long run, since I would have to discuss kernel sources, gdb, ddb and a number of other things on the side. But then again we will see where we will end. I just know, from experience, that writing a driver involves more than just code. -- Jeroen Ruigrok vd W/Asmodai asmodai@[wxs.nl|bart.nl|freebsd.org] Documentation nutter/B-rated Coder BSD: Technical excellence at its best The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Ain't gonna spend the rest of my Life, quietly fading away... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 3:32:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rsu2.saog.ac.ru (rsu2.saog.ac.ru [193.233.5.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E961C14D17 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 03:32:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Xoxol@usa.net) Received: from informatika.saog.ac.ru [193.233.5.170] by rsu2.saog.ac.ru with smtp id BNWHHNDL; Mon, 24 Jan 00 11:30:04 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.07r4) Received: from master [193.233.5.171] by informatika.saog.ac.ru [193.233.5.170] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:28:09 +0300 Message-ID: <000501bf665e$173f8120$ab05e9c1@informatics.saog.ac.ru> From: "Arseni Ledenev" To: Subject: help Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:28:08 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 Disposition-Notification-To: "Arseni Ledenev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Return-Path: Xoxol@usa.net Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi I dont know how add ftponly users To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 5:29:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F7514F4F; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 05:29:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.155]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA421A; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:29:05 +0100 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03390; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:27:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:27:39 +0100 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Bill Maniatty , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000124142738.B691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu> <388C0FED.706330D0@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <388C0FED.706330D0@newsguy.com>; from dcs@newsguy.com on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 05:40:13PM +0900 Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -On [20000124 10:13], Daniel C. Sobral (dcs@newsguy.com) wrote: >Bill Maniatty wrote: >> >> First we want to get the mechanism of driver installation down, then >> try our hands at writing our own driver. I fear that if we roll our own >> driver software we may find that if we have errors (not that we ever have >> errors mind you :-) we may not be able to isolate the cause. This is >> why I was leaning towards reinstalling a working driver first. > >You won't have any trouble at all with basic driver installation. In >fact, this is driver skeleton, that can be templated (and used to... but >I don't know if we have newbus templates or not). man 9 driver. >Notice that most developers use kld to develop their drivers. Not having >to recompile the kernel and reboot really helps. :-) There exists one >tutorial-style guide to writing kld's. It's a "hacking" guide to the use >of kld's as a way to introduce back-doors in FreeBSD, and though it's >somewhat "unclean" wrt to interface description, it's an effective >tutorial. I'm sure it can be found from FreeBSD's web site. Trust me, writing modules is the _least_ of your worries. If I can write a module then every^H^H^H^H^Hcluefull people can. =) /usr/src/sys/modules >As a next step, I suggest writing "virtual" drivers, not bound to any >hardware. There are many such drivers in the tree. As a trivial example, >and a favorite of many, the screen savers. > >The above will get you proficient with the basics of writing device >drivers, but still leave a lot out. Let's see... [Not looking at the source code for those I dare say:] But they are not using any busspace/newbus functionality for all I know. And cannot be compared to the `real' drivers IMHO. >> How mature is the USB driver technology? If it is pretty preliminary >> we may wish to visit that later. Please recall that we are on a learning >> curve here. > >If we support ethernet cards on USB, I'd say it's pretty mature. :-) > >Anyway, here is what virtual drivers won't teach: how to get resources, >which will vary from bus to bus, how to interact with some of the kernel >subsystems... How does one write a tun device? How does one write a >network device? How does one write a network protocol? How does one >write a CAM device (more than one type exist -- some virtual and some >not)? How does one write a bus device? When to write a bus (newpcm uses >a bus of it's own, if I'm not mistaken)? If you refer to pcm attaching to sbc or gusc. But those are pseudo busses if I understood everything correctly, the same goes for miibus and related busses (ppbus, smbus, iicbus). >These problems are mostly distinct from each other, and their usefulness >varies. Certainly, a tutorial covering newbus and the main bus types >(usb, isa, pci) would be useful and not too difficult to write. CardBus >and PCMCIA would be very useful, but we'll have to finish that first >:-). Ehm, a tutorial covering the bus types. You have no idea how much you can write about ISA and PCI alone. >But it gets complicated from there on. Writing a tutorial on even a >subsection of CAM would be very time-consuming. Write a reference so that we can finally convert the last drivers to CAM/newbus. =) >Julian had a device skeleton generator way back, I don't know if there >is a newbus equivalent or not. I think Peter [Wemm] wrote a skeleton one. >Documenting the available debugging tools and useful debugging >techniques would be mostly welcome. Aside from "how do I use the kernel >debugger", use of tools such as truss, and loading symbol tables to >kld's (see Greg Lehey's documentation on debugging vinum) would be >useful tutorials. Yeah yeah, coming up. Stop whining. ;) Hey, wait a sec, you said yesterday that you were bored. Nice task for you DCS ;) -- Jeroen Ruigrok vd W/Asmodai asmodai@[wxs.nl|bart.nl|freebsd.org] Documentation nutter/B-rated Coder BSD: Technical excellence at its best The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Ain't gonna spend the rest of my Life, quietly fading away... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 5:50:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AE4014FF4 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 05:50:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id FAA51350; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 05:50:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cx587235-a.chnd1.az.home.com (cx587235-a.chnd1.az.home.com [24.11.88.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38E314E14 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 05:46:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jjreynold@cx587235-a.chnd1.az.home.com) Received: from whale.home-net (whale [192.168.1.2]) by cx587235-a.chnd1.az.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20050 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:46:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jjreynold@dolphin.home-net) Received: (from jjreynold@localhost) by whale.home-net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA24551; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:46:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jjreynold@mailhost.home-net) Message-Id: <200001241346.GAA24551@whale.home-net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:46:46 -0700 (MST) From: John Reynolds Reply-To: jjreynold@home.com To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/16327: bad link in FAQ entry for ethernet cards Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 16327 >Category: docs >Synopsis: link to handbook section on ethernet cards is wrong >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: medium >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Mon Jan 24 05:50:01 PST 2000 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: John Reynolds >Release: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 >Organization: >Environment: FreeBSD whale 3.4-STABLE FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE #0: Sat Jan 22 10:31:40 MST 2000 root@whale:/usr/src/sys/compile/WHALE i386 >Description: I was going through the updated handbook / FAQ this morning trying links out and noticed that in the FAQ entry (under section 2) that asks: Which network cards does FreeBSD support? the link pointed to a section in the handbook that had nothing to do with ethernet cards. The patch supplied below will correct that problem. >How-To-Repeat: Go to this section of the FAQ and click on the "Ethernet cards" link. It will take you to the first page of the "installation" section of the handbook instead of to a list of supported ethernet cards. >Fix: --- book.sgml.old Mon Jan 24 06:40:40 2000 +++ book.sgml Mon Jan 24 06:38:20 2000 @@ -1981,7 +1981,7 @@ Which network cards does FreeBSD support? -See the Ethernet cards section of the handbook for a more +See the Ethernet cards section of the handbook for a more complete list. >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 6: 0: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBE73150FF for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:00:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id GAA52464; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:00:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:00:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200001241400.GAA52464@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: John Reynolds Subject: Re: docs/16327: link to handbook section on ethernet cards is wrong Reply-To: John Reynolds Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/16327; it has been noted by GNATS. From: John Reynolds To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/16327: link to handbook section on ethernet cards is wrong Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:58:27 -0700 (MST) Looks like I sent this in a bit too soon. As I was following more links, I noticed another one that needed to be updated from "install.html" to "install-hw.html" (same fix as in this PR's original patch). This patch supercedes the one in the original PR and fixes two links--one pointing to supported ethernet devices and one pointing to supported "misc" devices. --- book.sgml.old Mon Jan 24 06:40:40 2000 +++ book.sgml Mon Jan 24 06:50:35 2000 @@ -1981,7 +1981,7 @@ Which network cards does FreeBSD support? -See the Ethernet cards section of the handbook for a more +See the Ethernet cards section of the handbook for a more complete list. @@ -2007,7 +2007,7 @@ What other devices does 2.X support? -See the Handbook +See the Handbook for the list of other devices supported. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= John Reynolds Chandler Capabilities Engineering, CDS, Intel Corporation jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com My opinions are mine, not Intel's. Running jjreynold@home.com FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE. FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://members.home.com/jjreynold/ Come join us!!! @ http://www.FreeBSD.org/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 6: 6:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4779414EAC; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:06:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nbm@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from nbm@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id GAA53365; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:06:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nbm@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:06:28 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200001241406.GAA53365@freefall.freebsd.org> To: jjreynold@home.com, nbm@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/16327: link to handbook section on ethernet cards is wrong Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: link to handbook section on ethernet cards is wrong State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: nbm State-Changed-When: Mon Jan 24 06:04:27 PST 2000 State-Changed-Why: fixed this To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 7: 5:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from crisp.com (crisp.com [192.41.58.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A627D14C96 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 07:04:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@vital.com) Received: from sparrow (cf0d1f11.dfw1.dsl.airmail.net [207.13.31.17]) by crisp.com (8.8.5) id IAA07807; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:04:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.20000124085541.01145460@pop.crisp.com> X-Sender: mike@pop.crisp.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:00:23 -0600 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG From: Michael Lyon Subject: CRiSP Freebsd Editor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear Sir or Madam, My company Vital Inc. makes CRiSP, a powerful and intuitive language sensitive editor for development on Freebsd as well as most Windows and UNIX platforms. CRiSP can be used in both character as well as GUI modes depending upon individual preference. Emulation modes include brief, vi, emacs, edt, cua, and wordstar as well as many other advance editing features such as syntax coloring, dynamic tagging, search and replace, code beautifying, columnar editing, and a customizable toolbar. I would like to announce CRiSP to the visitors of your website and make a FREE evaluation of CRiSP available to them. This free evaluation of CRiSP can be downloaded at http://vital.com/download.htm. Please call 972-398-8930 ext.222 or send email to michael@vital.com with any questions. Thank you. Sincerely, Michael Lyon Cheers Michael Lyon Vital, Inc. Phone: +1 (972) 398-8930 Fax: +1 (972) 596-7865 Fax: +1 (972) 491-6909 [Secure Line] Email: mike@vital.com or mike@crisp.com Web: http://www.vital.com or http://www.crisp.com Postal Address: Sales Accounts: 2301 Ohio Drive, Suite# 236 4109 Candlewyck Drive Plano, TX 75093, USA Plano, TX 75024, USA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 7:27:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB69614FA7; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 07:27:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.155]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA2D05; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:27:23 +0100 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04329; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:16:40 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:16:40 +0100 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Bill Maniatty , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000124161640.F691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu> <388C0FED.706330D0@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <388C0FED.706330D0@newsguy.com>; from dcs@newsguy.com on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 05:40:13PM +0900 Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -On [20000124 10:13], Daniel C. Sobral (dcs@newsguy.com) wrote: >As long as a device is just inb/outb (I seem to recall newbus have a >replacement for these) bus_space_read_#() / bus_space_write_#() Where # is 1, 2, 4, or 8. But I don't think we support atomic 8 byte atomic reads and writes. -- Jeroen Ruigrok vd W/Asmodai asmodai@[wxs.nl|bart.nl|freebsd.org] Documentation nutter/B-rated Coder BSD: Technical excellence at its best The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project When we have not what we like, we must like what we have... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 7:28: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E835B15937; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 07:27:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.155]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAB2D05; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:27:25 +0100 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04347; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:27:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:27:17 +0100 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "William A. Maniatty" Cc: winter@jurai.net, FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org, chuckr@picnic.mat.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, grog@lemis.com, maniattb@cs.rpi.edu, msmith@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000124162717.G691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <200001240758.CAA02026@richard.cs.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200001240758.CAA02026@richard.cs.albany.edu>; from maniatty@cs.albany.edu on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 02:58:34AM -0500 Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -On [20000124 10:13], William A. Maniatty (maniatty@cs.albany.edu) wrote: >Is it possible to get a look at the digital Unix guides, that might be a >good starting point. Are they on line (perhaps you have a URL)? http://www.unix.digital.com/faqs/publications/dev_doc/DOCUMENTATION/HTML/Digital_UNIX_Bookshelf.html -- Jeroen Ruigrok vd W/Asmodai asmodai@[wxs.nl|bart.nl|freebsd.org] Documentation nutter/B-rated Coder BSD: Technical excellence at its best The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project But Time, keeps flowing like a river (on and on)... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 7:56:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pan.ch.intel.com (pan.ch.intel.com [143.182.246.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35C8B14CD2; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 07:56:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com) Received: from sedona.intel.com (sedona.ch.intel.com [143.182.218.21]) by pan.ch.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.18 2000/01/07 21:56:55 dmccart Exp $) with ESMTP id IAA03135; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:56:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from hip186.ch.intel.com (hip186.ch.intel.com [143.182.225.68]) by sedona.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: sendmail.cf,v 1.8 1999/04/16 15:25:49 steved Exp steved $) with ESMTP id IAA16434; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:56:30 -0700 (MST) X-Envelope-From: jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com Received: (from jreynold@localhost) by hip186.ch.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: client.m4,v 1.3 1998/09/29 16:36:11 sedayao Exp sedayao $) id KAA20804; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:56:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: hip186.ch.intel.com: jreynold set sender to jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com using -f From: John Reynolds~ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14476.30254.545036.330161@hip186.ch.intel.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:56:30 -0700 (MST) To: Cc: jjreynold@home.com, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: docs/16327: link to handbook section on ethernet cards is wrong In-Reply-To: <200001241406.GAA53365@freefall.freebsd.org> References: <200001241406.GAA53365@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 20.3.11 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ On Monday, January 24, nbm@freebsd.org wrote: ] > Synopsis: link to handbook section on ethernet cards is wrong > > State-Changed-From-To: open->closed > State-Changed-By: nbm > State-Changed-When: Mon Jan 24 06:04:27 PST 2000 > State-Changed-Why: > fixed this > Excellent! Thanks! -Jr -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | John Reynolds WCCG, CCE, Higher Levels of Abstraction | | Intel Corporation MS: CH6-210 Phone: 480-554-9092 pgr: 602-868-6512 | | jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com http://www-aec.ch.intel.com/~jreynold/ | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 8:39:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D062C14E8E; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:39:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.155]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA5B52; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:39:18 +0100 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04557; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:39:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:39:11 +0100 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Chuck Robey Cc: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , Bill Maniatty , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000124173911.I691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <200001240635.WAA10110@mass.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from chuckr@picnic.mat.net on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 01:47:43AM -0500 Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -On [20000124 08:01], Chuck Robey (chuckr@picnic.mat.net) wrote: > >The problem is, you can't even find what the interfaces are. Reading the >code isn't very useful if you can't even find the right place to start >from. At least the interface points could be listed, so that someone >would know where to begin. Working on that. And I am finally getting somewhere. I hope to commit some manpages, very rough for now, somewhere this week. -- Jeroen Ruigrok vd W/Asmodai asmodai@[wxs.nl|bart.nl|freebsd.org] Documentation nutter/B-rated Coder BSD: Technical excellence at its best The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project We've laid together in the sun before the mind-rape has begun... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 10:27:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E36A151B5; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:27:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01876; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:27:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA04800; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:26:57 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200001241826.LAA04800@harmony.village.org> To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Bill Maniatty , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:16:40 +0100." <20000124161640.F691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <20000124161640.F691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu> <388C0FED.706330D0@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:26:57 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <20000124161640.F691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: : >As long as a device is just inb/outb (I seem to recall newbus have a : >replacement for these) : : bus_space_read_#() / bus_space_write_#() : : Where # is 1, 2, 4, or 8. But I don't think we support atomic 8 byte : atomic reads and writes. It isn't so much that "we" don't support atomic 8 byte operations, it is that the busses and cpus don't support these operations... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 10:58:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2A4215A40; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:58:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.28]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1C3D; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:58:14 +0100 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05303; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:58:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:58:03 +0100 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Warner Losh Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Bill Maniatty , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000124195803.C4731@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <20000124161640.F691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu> <388C0FED.706330D0@newsguy.com> <20000124161640.F691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <200001241826.LAA04800@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200001241826.LAA04800@harmony.village.org>; from imp@village.org on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 11:26:57AM -0700 Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -On [20000124 19:55], Warner Losh (imp@village.org) wrote: >In message <20000124161640.F691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: >: >As long as a device is just inb/outb (I seem to recall newbus have a >: >replacement for these) >: >: bus_space_read_#() / bus_space_write_#() >: >: Where # is 1, 2, 4, or 8. But I don't think we support atomic 8 byte >: atomic reads and writes. > >It isn't so much that "we" don't support atomic 8 byte operations, it >is that the busses and cpus don't support these operations... Sorry, mea culpa. It's just that I have been shifting back and forth between NetBSD and FreeBSD and that I see they have bus_space_[read|write]_8 defined and we don't. So my statement was actually more in reflection to NetBSD's support of it. Whether or not they support busses which do 8 byte atomic reads/writes I am not sure of. Thanks for the reality adjustment Warner. =) -- Jeroen Ruigrok vd W/Asmodai asmodai@[wxs.nl|bart.nl|freebsd.org] Documentation nutter/B-rated Coder BSD: Technical excellence at its best The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Woe to the vanquished! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 11: 0:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76BB91557C for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:00:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA43746 for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:00:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:00:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200001241900.LAA43746@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: FreeBSD doc list Subject: Current unassigned doc problem reports Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Current FreeBSD problem reports The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. Bugs can be in one of several states: o - open A problem report has been submitted, no sanity checking performed. a - analyzed The report has been examined by a team member and evaluated. f - feedback The problem has been solved, and the originator has been given a patch or a fix has been committed. The PR remains in this state pending a response from the originator. s - suspended The problem is not being worked on. This is a prime candidate for somebody who is looking for a project to do. If the problem cannot be solved at all, it will be closed, rather than suspended. c - closed A problem report is closed when any changes have been integrated, documented, and tested. Critical problems Serious problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2000/01/17] docs/16152 doc books/fdp-primer: Footnotes mangled in SG 1 problem total. Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- a [1998/07/31] docs/7456 doc dialog(3) man page outdated o [1998/09/09] docs/7873 doc poor initial configuration and documentat o [1998/10/25] docs/8445 doc Update of "Installing Mathematica on Free o [1999/02/25] docs/10240 doc We need a script which check if our web m o [1999/03/29] docs/10850 doc submitting a documentation change for sed o [1999/04/07] docs/10997 doc Problem with query-pr-summary.cgi o [1999/04/21] docs/11258 doc suggestion to refine npx.4 o [1999/06/01] docs/11978 doc timed(8) manpage does not define '-F' swi o [1999/08/13] docs/13116 doc typo in ms(7) o [1999/08/23] docs/13333 doc remove rtld(1) XREF in dlopen.3 o [1999/08/23] docs/13341 doc FAQ 8.7 addition - booting drive 1 from N o [1999/08/28] docs/13441 doc incorrect path in SGML_CATALOG_FILES env o [1999/08/28] docs/13442 doc docproj-primer does not mention where to o [1999/09/17] docs/13792 doc Difficult to find documentation of "secur o [1999/09/19] docs/13815 doc Out-of-date FAQ entries o [1999/09/22] docs/13914 doc global(1) manpage does not explain -v opt o [1999/09/25] docs/13950 doc webpage idea o [1999/09/25] docs/13967 doc FreeBSD Related Publications in Korea o [1999/09/28] docs/14024 doc Several manpages still mentions hosts.den o [1999/09/29] docs/14035 doc tzfile.h referenced in tzfile(5) doesn't o [1999/10/06] docs/14158 doc md5(1) manpage should not claim the md5 a o [1999/10/25] bin/14532 doc Much of cam_cdbparse(3) prints in Courier o [1999/10/27] docs/14563 doc Wrong manpage produced by `man 4 fd' o [1999/10/27] docs/14565 doc ioctl() codes for device type `fd' (flopp o [1999/11/03] docs/14682 doc lprm(1) unaware of lp(1) Environment Vari o [1999/12/06] docs/15300 doc assorted update for FAQ o [1999/12/10] docs/15408 doc Description of ls and nlist wrong in man o [1999/12/19] bin/15561 doc regex(3) manpage needs update o [1999/12/20] docs/15600 doc Undocumented option in restore(8) o [1999/12/23] docs/15661 doc Handbook doesn't properly document bootin o [1999/12/25] docs/15697 doc Outdated information about Sendmail's con o [2000/01/01] docs/15821 doc Wrong device names in manpages for lpt(4) o [2000/01/04] misc/15890 doc rfork(RFMEM) on SMP generates error o [2000/01/07] ports/15966 doc files under /usr/share/doc/ja/handbook/ b o [2000/01/11] docs/16065 doc small note about HP printers. o [2000/01/18] docs/16173 doc [PATCH] fix for the kld/cdev example o [2000/01/20] docs/16221 doc patch updates vidcontrol.1 to include new o [2000/01/21] docs/16290 doc added FreeBSD Diary announcement to newsf 38 problems total. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 11: 7:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 070C115978; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:07:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02032; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:06:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA05119; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:06:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200001241906.MAA05119@harmony.village.org> To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Bill Maniatty , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:58:03 +0100." <20000124195803.C4731@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <20000124195803.C4731@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <20000124161640.F691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu> <388C0FED.706330D0@newsguy.com> <20000124161640.F691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <200001241826.LAA04800@harmony.village.org> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:06:30 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <20000124195803.C4731@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: : So my statement was actually more in reflection to NetBSD's support of : it. Whether or not they support busses which do 8 byte atomic : reads/writes I am not sure of. : : Thanks for the reality adjustment Warner. =) Yes. Looking at the bus.h in NetBSD/i386 I see: #if 0 /* Cause a link error for bus_space_read_8 */ #define bus_space_read_8(t, h, o) !!! bus_space_read_8 unimplemented !!! #endif The Netbsd/alpha version appears to have it defined. Makes sense when you think about it. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 11:19:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from server.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B11414D62 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:18:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (john [10.0.0.2]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16513 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:18:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <200001241918.OAA16513@server.baldwin.cx> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:18:46 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: General cleanup of the Committers Guide Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I've gone through and given the committers guide a small overhaul and would appreciate any feedback on the patch. The patch can be found at: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhb/patches/cg.patch Here's a short excerpt from http://www.freebsd.org/~jhb/: cg.patch Patch to the committers guide including several grammar fixes, markup fixes, and re-wordings to try and make the text clearer. I also expanded several contractions, mentioned Bill Fenner's whodid script, and added a couple of clarifications. Thanks for any comments, etc. you all have. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/ PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 14:45:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A715514C0F for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:45:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@freebsd.org) Received: from modem-94.havrix.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.70.94]) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12Cs9d-0001pW-00 for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:40:13 +0000 Received: (qmail 5486 invoked by uid 5000); 24 Jan 2000 22:10:09 -0000 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:10:09 +0000 From: Tom Hukins To: Michael Lyon Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CRiSP Freebsd Editor Message-ID: <20000124221008.A5446@eborcom.com> Mail-Followup-To: Michael Lyon , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.20000124085541.01145460@pop.crisp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000124085541.01145460@pop.crisp.com>; from mike@vital.com on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 09:00:23AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 09:00:23AM -0600, Michael Lyon wrote: > > My company Vital Inc. makes CRiSP, a powerful and intuitive language > sensitive editor for development on Freebsd as well as most Windows and > UNIX platforms. CRiSP can be used in both character as well as GUI > modes depending upon individual preference. Emulation modes include > brief, vi, emacs, edt, cua, and wordstar as well as many other advance > editing features such as syntax coloring, dynamic tagging, search and > replace, code beautifying, columnar editing, and a customizable toolbar. > > I would like to announce CRiSP to the visitors of your website and make > a FREE evaluation of CRiSP available to them. This free evaluation of CRiSP > can be downloaded at http://vital.com/download.htm. Michael, your product is already listed on the Web site . What additional announcement are you requesting? Regards, Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 14:58:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B842314E5B for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:58:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@freebsd.org) Received: from modem-94.havrix.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.70.94]) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12CsMT-0005OF-01 for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:53:30 +0000 Received: (qmail 6048 invoked by uid 5000); 24 Jan 2000 22:52:33 -0000 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:52:33 +0000 From: Tom Hukins To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Szilveszter Adam , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Translation of "High points" Message-ID: <20000124225232.A5569@eborcom.com> Mail-Followup-To: Gregory Sutter , Szilveszter Adam , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG References: <14475.3747.312979.33508R@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp> <20000123162758.A7382@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu> <20000123143147.A61414@azazel.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000123143147.A61414@azazel.zer0.org>; from gsutter@pobox.com on Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 02:31:47PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 02:31:47PM -0800, Gregory Sutter wrote: > On Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 04:27:58PM +0100, Szilveszter Adam wrote: > > > > Although my mother tongue is not English either but I think it means: if you > > are only interested in the important events of FreeBSD development, you > > should subscribe to -announce because they are announced there anyway. It is > > This is correct. The original author used "high points" to mean > "important events". Since it caused confusion, perhaps it should > be changed in the English handbook as well. Agreed. There's less scope for confusion if "important events" is used. I've just committed this change - see revision 1.39 of eresources/chapter.sgml. Thanks, Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 17:57:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.teb1.iconnet.net (smtp02.teb1.iconnet.net [209.3.218.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C885C152AF; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:57:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from babkin@bellatlantic.net) Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-198-135-129.bellatlantic.net [151.198.135.129]) by smtp02.teb1.iconnet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA17969; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:57:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <388D04B2.4CDD7B9A@bellatlantic.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:04:34 -0500 From: Sergey Babkin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-19990626-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Cc: Bill Maniatty , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel References: <200001240049.QAA09005@mass.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote: > > Writing documentation is a resource-sucking nuisance; supporting outdated > documentation even more so. The BSD driver model is sufficiently simple I think that there might be a compromise solution: when someone learns the interface from analysing the code he might as well document his findings in some way for others to read. This would require minor additional effort. I'm going to try this with CAM in a few weeks and see whether this idea is viable. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 18: 5: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D4E8156D2; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:04:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (j24.klt32.jaring.my [161.142.169.158]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13946; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:33:29 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03427; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:17:42 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:17:42 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: Bill Maniatty , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000124171742.M2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <20000124123920.F2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <200001240635.WAA10110@mass.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200001240635.WAA10110@mass.cdrom.com>; from msmith@FreeBSD.ORG on Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 10:35:53PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 23 January 2000 at 22:35:53 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It >> certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to >> seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate >> comments, and so what you see from the code is mainly tactics, not >> strategy. > > You miss my point; you don't want to be writing a driver until you know > what you're doing. Documentation on an OS' driver interface won't teach > you that; it's something that's really only ever gleaned from experience. Hmm. I don't really see what your reply has to do with what you quote. I also strongly suspect that *nobody* really knows what he's doing when he writes his first driver, and that it's an interative process to learn how to get there. Most of us were ``thrown in the deep end'', and somehow we learnt to swim. But in detail, what we all did was to look at all documentation we could find, including of course the source code. I didn't say that reading the source code is bad; it's definitely part of it, just not enough. To be fair, this is an experience I've made with multiple operating systems now. FreeBSD is no worse than the others; writing drivers is inadequately described in every system I know. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 18: 5:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8B5115937; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:05:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (j24.klt32.jaring.my [161.142.169.158]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13949; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:34:14 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03504; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:35:09 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:35:09 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: "William A. Maniatty" Cc: chuckr@picnic.mat.net, FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, asmodai@wxs.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, maniattb@cs.rpi.edu, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000124173509.O2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <200001240744.CAA02021@richard.cs.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200001240744.CAA02021@richard.cs.albany.edu>; from maniatty@cs.albany.edu on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 02:44:43AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 2:44:43 -0500, William A. Maniatty wrote: > Hi There: > > Chuck Robey Writes: >> I know where Mike's coming from. Wait until the next guy posts on the >> list "I don't really know how to program, but please tell what 'C' is, and >> how to write a device driver". We had a pretty nasty flamewar over that >> maybe (I think) 9 months ago, and it still hurts folks, to be accused of >> conceit, when the guy was asking a grossly unanswerable question, and >> wouldn't believe it couldn't be boiled down to a 4 paragraph "device >> drivers for dummies" thing. Mike wants to avoid dealing with a horde of >> folks like that. >> >> I can't really blame Mike, it's impossible to make people understand that >> you can't boil everything down to a 30 second sound bite. BUT I still >> wish there was a map to interfaces. > > Ah! I wasn't aware of this. I would be somewhat thin skinned too, > too many requests for a free lunch can be a problem. On the other hand > I still think: (i) I'd still like my student to take a crack at it, > since he would pick up some understanding of kernel programming by doing it > (a good thing!) (ii) the project might help motivated (and good) people > pick up FreeBSD kernel programming and (iii) people can be pointed to > the manual and told to return if they have a specific question. These were pretty much exactly the reasons I thought of. I was thinking (iii) might be getting your guy to do the documentation :-) Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 18: 7: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FDC414D01; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:06:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (j24.klt32.jaring.my [161.142.169.158]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13961; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:35:36 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03488; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:33:56 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:33:56 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Chuck Robey Cc: "William A. Maniatty" , msmith@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, asmodai@wxs.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, maniattb@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000124173356.N2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <200001240716.CAA02016@richard.cs.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from chuckr@picnic.mat.net on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 02:28:23AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 2:28:23 -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, William A. Maniatty wrote: > >> Both Chuck Robey and Mike Smith have some points, but that won't >> stop me from giving my opinion :-). Mike is correct that experience is >> key to being a solid systems software developer, who writes device drivers. >> Now the next question is how can someone get experience? By developing >> systems software (which by the way they should only do if they have >> experience at it :-)). >> >> Traditionally there are two approaches: >> 1) Have a friend available and bug them for help when you get stuck :-) >> 2) Read the documentation. >> 3) Read the code and lose a whole lot of productivity without certainty >> of figuring it out on your own. >> 4) Dismiss the whole problem as unmanageable and throw your >> weight behind a more productive project. > > I know where Mike's coming from. Wait until the next guy posts on the > list "I don't really know how to program, but please tell what 'C' is, and > how to write a device driver". We had a pretty nasty flamewar over that > maybe (I think) 9 months ago, and it still hurts folks, to be accused of > conceit, when the guy was asking a grossly unanswerable question, and > wouldn't believe it couldn't be boiled down to a 4 paragraph "device > drivers for dummies" thing. Mike wants to avoid dealing with a horde of > folks like that. I don't think anybody's picking on Mike, but there are some obvious points here: 1. This isn't an idiot asking inappropriate questions, it's a college professor asking very appropriate questions. 2. Nobody's asking Mike to do anything. I think that one of the problems Mike is showing (and it's not just Mike, but somehow it seems to be his turn to be picked on right now :-) is that it's painful enough to go through the learning experience the first time, and you don't really want to go back and try again and again. Unfortunately, this doesn't make it any less necessary. I was hoping that Bill's student might help create better documentation as well; if he succeeds in that, generations of FreeBSD driver programmers will burn incense at his shrine. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 18:30:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB50414CF1 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:30:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA99522; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:30:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from ijs.com (ijs.com [205.149.188.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A02E114C22 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:21:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bugs@ijs.com) Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ijs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28859; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:30:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bugs) Message-Id: <200001250230.SAA28859@ijs.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:30:43 -0800 (PST) From: BUGS TRACKING Reply-To: bugs@ijs.com To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/16338: This is a test Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 16338 >Category: docs >Synopsis: This is a test >Confidential: yes >Severity: serious >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: sw-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Mon Jan 24 18:30:00 PST 2000 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: BUGS TRACKING >Release: FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386 >Organization: >Environment: >Description: This is a test jghfkjghkfjd >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 18:37:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 134E1150D5; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:37:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from billf@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA00494; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:37:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:37:13 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200001250237.SAA00494@freefall.freebsd.org> To: bugs@ijs.com, billf@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/16338: This is a test Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: This is a test State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: billf State-Changed-When: Mon Jan 24 18:36:18 PST 2000 State-Changed-Why: Submitter has nothing better to do then fill our PR system with bogus PRs. May a cow land on your vehicle or something like that. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 19:31: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6AF315632; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (j13.ktb6.jaring.my [161.142.234.27]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14055; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:00:36 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04806; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:54:43 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:54:43 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Bill Maniatty , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000125105443.A4775@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <200001231648.LAA53658@cs.rpi.edu> <388C0FED.706330D0@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <388C0FED.706330D0@newsguy.com>; from dcs@newsguy.com on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 05:40:13PM +0900 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 17:40:13 +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Documenting the available debugging tools and useful debugging > techniques would be mostly welcome. Aside from "how do I use the kernel > debugger", use of tools such as truss, and loading symbol tables to > kld's (see Greg Lehey's documentation on debugging vinum) would be > useful tutorials. Kick me on this in a month or so's time and I'll try to make a generalized document out of this one. Cross my palm with silver and I'll even write a "how to develop a driver" document. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 19:31:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D2015984; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:30:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (j13.ktb6.jaring.my [161.142.234.27]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14058; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:00:45 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04822; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:58:26 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:58:26 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Mike Smith , Bill Maniatty , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, maniatty@cs.albany.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: <20000125105825.B4775@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <20000124123920.F2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <200001240635.WAA10110@mass.cdrom.com> <20000124100410.A691@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000124100410.A691@daemon.ninth-circle.org>; from asmodai@wxs.nl on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:04:10AM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 10:04:10 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > -On [20000124 08:01], Mike Smith (msmith@freebsd.org) wrote: >>> I can't agree with Mike Smith that reading the code is adequate. It >>> certainly doesn't apply to newcomers, but it doesn't even apply to >>> seasoned hackers like Mike: the BSD style doesn't provide for adequate >>> comments, and so what you see from the code is mainly tactics, not >>> strategy. >> >> You miss my point; you don't want to be writing a driver until you know >> what you're doing. Documentation on an OS' driver interface won't teach >> you that; it's something that's really only ever gleaned from experience. > > This I agree on with Mike. Writing device drivers isn't like > writing an application. In this respect, it is: I understand Mike to be saying "you can't learn by reading, you learn by doing". > The documentation I am writing will definately not be a tutorial > style piece of documentation, but a reference guide with sufficient > background material so that people a bit familiar with FreeBSD on > source level (note the ``a bit'') will get enough ideas and clues > from it to proceed forwards. I think it would benefit from tutorial style. That wouldn't be enough, but defining the workspace would make people a lot more comfortable. > I do not think making it a tutorial will be beneficial in the long run, > since I would have to discuss kernel sources, gdb, ddb and a number of > other things on the side. And that's a bad idea? I'd disagree. > I just know, from experience, that writing a driver involves more > than just code. Definitely. And that's one thing you've got to tell the newcomers. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 20:50: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9737414CF4 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA13074; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cx587235-a.chnd1.az.home.com (cx587235-a.chnd1.az.home.com [24.11.88.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4E214A04 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:46:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jjreynold@cx587235-a.chnd1.az.home.com) Received: from whale.home-net (whale [192.168.1.2]) by cx587235-a.chnd1.az.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA38874; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:46:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jjreynold@dolphin.home-net) Received: (from jjreynold@localhost) by whale.home-net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25919; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:46:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jjreynold@mailhost.home-net) Message-Id: <200001250446.VAA25919@whale.home-net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:46:07 -0700 (MST) From: jjreynold@home.com Reply-To: jjreynold@home.com To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org Cc: kelly@ad1440.net X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/16340: e-mail address change in handbook Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 16340 >Category: docs >Synopsis: need e-mail address changed in "printing" section handbook >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: medium >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Mon Jan 24 20:50:01 PST 2000 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: John Reynolds >Release: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 >Organization: >Environment: 3.4-STABLE cvsup'ed 1/23/00 >Description: The e-mail address listed for the contributor of the printing section of the handbook is stale. Sean no longer works for plutotech.com. The following patch to en_US.ISO_8859-1/books/handbook/authors.ent will remedy the situation. Permission was given to me by Sean (friend from school) to send in the PR for the e-mail address change. >How-To-Repeat: N/A >Fix: --- authors.ent.old Mon Jan 24 21:40:15 2000 +++ authors.ent Mon Jan 24 21:40:54 2000 @@ -240,7 +240,7 @@ kato@FreeBSD.org"> -kelly@plutotech.com"> +kelly@ad1440.net"> ken@FreeBSD.org"> >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 24 21:43:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEBEA14A1F; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:43:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from jhb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA17923; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:43:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:43:44 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200001250543.VAA17923@freefall.freebsd.org> To: jjreynold@home.com, jhb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/16340: need e-mail address changed in "printing" section handbook Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: need e-mail address changed in "printing" section handbook State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: jhb State-Changed-When: Mon Jan 24 21:43:19 PST 2000 State-Changed-Why: Committed, thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 25 0:18:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (UCB-Async4-CRISCO.CRIS.NET [212.110.129.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A59914E4E for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:18:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id KAA38329 for doc@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:18:17 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:18:17 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: New texinfo-4.0 features Message-ID: <20000125101817.C32413@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! It is to inform you that the new texinfo subsystem is capable of producing HTML output from the texinfo sources. Please refer to the makeinfo(1) manpage, option --html for details. There is also a small utility (not installed), that could be used to produce manual pages from the --help, --version output. It could be found as src/contrib/texinfo/doc/help2man. Cheers, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank, ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer, +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 25 1:14: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from sonet.crimea.ua (OTC-sl3-FLY.CRIS.NET [212.110.136.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BBC314EB6; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:12:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phantom@scorpion.crimea.ua) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sonet.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id LAA13465; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:21:30 +0300 (MSK) Received: (from phantom@localhost) by scorpion.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5+ssl+keepalive) id KAA11550; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:25:36 +0300 (MSK) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:25:35 +0300 From: Alexey Zelkin To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New texinfo-4.0 features Message-ID: <20000125102535.A11525@scorpion.crimea.ua> References: <20000125101817.C32413@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.7i In-Reply-To: <20000125101817.C32413@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, On Tue, Jan 25, 2000 at 10:18:17AM +0200, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > There is also a small utility (not installed), that could be > used to produce manual pages from the --help, --version output. > It could be found as src/contrib/texinfo/doc/help2man. IMHO it should be installed as /usr/share/examples/texinfo/... -- /* Alexey Zelkin && phantom@cris.net */ /* Tavric National University && phantom@crimea.edu */ /* http://www.ccssu.crimea.ua/~phantom && phantom@FreeBSD.org */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 25 1:20: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EA9215121 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:20:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id BAA41221; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:20:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from webweaving.org (calcaphon.demon.co.uk [193.237.19.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A9515081 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:14:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from n_hibma@webweaving.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by webweaving.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03848; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:06:55 GMT (envelope-from n_hibma) Message-Id: <200001250106.BAA03848@webweaving.org> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:06:55 GMT From: n_hibma@webweaving.org Reply-To: n_hibma@webweaving.org To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/16345: share/man/man7/hier.7 out of date Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 16345 >Category: docs >Synopsis: share/man/man7/hier.7 out of date >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Tue Jan 25 01:20:01 PST 2000 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Nick Hibma (henny) >Release: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT i386 >Organization: >Environment: CURRENT as of Jan.24 02:00 GMT. >Description: The hier(7) man page is out of date with respect to th include file directory in /usr/include. >How-To-Repeat: man hier.7 comparison to find /usr/include/ -type d >Fix: --- hier.7 Tue Jan 25 01:02:28 2000 +++ hier.7.new Tue Jan 25 01:03:33 2000 @@ -156,6 +156,12 @@ .Bl -tag -width "kerberosIV/" -compact .It Li arpa/ C include files for Internet service protocols +.It Li cam/ +C include files for the Common Access Methods Layer +.Bl -tag -width "kerberosIV/" -compact +.It scsi/ +The SCSI device on top of CAM +.El .It Li dev/ .Bl -tag -width "kerberosIV/" -compact .It usb/ >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 25 1:23:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (UCB-Async4-CRISCO.CRIS.NET [212.110.129.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25984150F7 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:23:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id LAA54489; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:22:09 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:22:09 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Alexey Zelkin Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New texinfo-4.0 features Message-ID: <20000125112209.A54432@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> References: <20000125101817.C32413@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> <20000125102535.A11525@scorpion.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <20000125102535.A11525@scorpion.crimea.ua>; from Alexey Zelkin on Tue, Jan 25, 2000 at 10:25:35AM +0300 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jan 25, 2000 at 10:25:35AM +0300, Alexey Zelkin wrote: > hi, > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2000 at 10:18:17AM +0200, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > There is also a small utility (not installed), that could be > > used to produce manual pages from the --help, --version output. > > It could be found as src/contrib/texinfo/doc/help2man. > > IMHO it should be installed as /usr/share/examples/texinfo/... > I'd object since this utility has nothing to do with texinfo ;=) -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank, ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer, +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 25 6:14:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from server.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D838151D7 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 06:14:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (john [10.0.0.2]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA65698 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:14:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <200001251414.JAA65698@server.baldwin.cx> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:14:21 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: OpenSSL docs for FAQ Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:49:04 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: current@freebsd.org Subject: OpenSSL docs for FAQ Cc: security@freebsd.org Can people please review this for style and content, for inclusion in the FAQ? I'll also need someone to mark it up once it's ready since SGML is currently not among my abilities :-) Thanks, Kris ---- As of FreeBSD 4.0, the OpenSSL toolkit is a part of the base system. OpenSSL [http://www.openssl.org] provides a general-purpose cryptography library, as well as the Secure Sockets Layer v2/v3 (SSLv2/SSLv3) and Transport Layer Security v1 (TLSv1) network security protocols. However, some of the algorithms (specifically, RSA and IDEA) included in OpenSSL are protected by patents in the USA and elsewhere and are not available for unrestricted use. In addition, export of cryptographic code from the USA has (until recently) been heavily restricted. As a result, FreeBSD has available three different versions of OpenSSL depending on geographical location (US/non-US) and compliance with the RSAREF license (see below). RSA is a useful algorithm which is required for a lot of third-party software which uses OpenSSL (as well as for the SSLv2 protocol), so you should enable it if at all possible. See below for more information. SOURCE-CODE INSTALLATIONS INTERNATIONAL (NON-US) USERS: People who are located outside the USA, and who obtain their crypto sources from internat.freebsd.org (the International Crypto Repository), will build a version of OpenSSL which includes RSA, but does not include IDEA, because the latter is restricted in certain locations elsewhere in the world. In the future a more flexible identification system may allow building of IDEA in countries for which it is not restricted. US USERS: As noted above, RSA is patented in the US, with terms preventing general use without an appropriate license. Therefore the OpenSSL RSA code may not be used in the US, and has been removed from the version of OpenSSL carried on US mirror sites. The RSA patent is due to expire on September 20, 2000, at which time it is intended to add the "full" RSA code back to the US version of OpenSSL. However (and fortunately), the RSA patent holder (RSA Security, [http://www.rsasecurity.com]) has provided a "RSA reference implementation" toolkit ("RSAREF") which is available for *certain classes of use*, including "non-commercial use" (see the RSAREF license [XXX - We should put this on the website too since I can't find an external URL for it] for the definition of "non-commercial"). If you meet the conditions of the RSAREF license and wish to build your OpenSSL sources with RSAREF support, you must first install the rsaref port in /usr/ports/security/rsaref before (re)building OpenSSL (e.g. by 'make world'). Please obtain legal advice if you are unsure of your compliance with the license terms. IDEA code is also removed from the US version of OpenSSL for patent reasons. BINARY INSTALLATIONS If your FreeBSD installation was a binary installation (e.g. installed from CDROM, or from a snapshot downloaded from ftp.freebsd.org) and you selected to install the 'crypto' module, then you will have the non-RSA capable US version of the OpenSSL code (see above). If you wish to install another version (US RSAREF, or International) you will need to obtain and install one of the following packages: * OpenSSL package with RSAREF support for US users (NOTE: Be sure to read the license before installing! This is NOT licensed for general-purpose use!) ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/XXX * OpenSSL package for International (non-US) users. This is not legal for use in the US, but international users should use this one because the RSA implementation is faster and more flexible. ftp://internat.freebsd.org/XXX ---- "How many roads must a man walk down, before you call him a man?" "Eight!" "That was a rhetorical question!" "Oh..then, seven!" -- Homer Simpson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 25 13:33:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83971530B; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:32:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from jim@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id NAA01161; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:32:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:32:55 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200001252132.NAA01161@freefall.freebsd.org> To: dan@freebsddiary.org, jim@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/16290: added FreeBSD Diary announcement to newsflash Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: added FreeBSD Diary announcement to newsflash State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: jim State-Changed-When: Tue Jan 25 13:32:38 PST 2000 State-Changed-Why: Committed, thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 25 18: 6:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from send01.start.com.au (send01.start.com.au [203.111.10.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52DB14D4A for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from harold@start.com.au) Received: from web01 ([203.111.10.131]) by send01.start.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA12850 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:11:30 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <200001260211.NAA12850@send01.start.com.au> From: harold b To: "doc@FreeBSD.org" X-Originating-IP: [206.17.110.26] Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:06:16 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-mailer: AspMail 2.62 (SMTP85107B) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I would like to learn about freebsd n unix also shells would it be possible to set me up an account to telnet to learn harold __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://start.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 25 23: 6:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from serio.al.rim.or.jp (serio.al.rim.or.jp [202.247.191.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD7BB14DEE for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:06:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp) Received: from mail1.rim.or.jp by serio.al.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W/HMX-12) with ESMTP id QAA08057 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:06:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from rhea.sky.rim.or.jp (ppp371.kt.rim.or.jp [202.247.140.71]) by mail1.rim.or.jp (3.7W/) id QAA08355 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:06:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost.sky.rim.or.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rhea.sky.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W/rhea-1.2) with ESMTP id QAA91517 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:06:11 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:05:50 +0900 Message-ID: <86oga9gvn5.wl@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp> From: Jun Kuriyama To: Doc Team Subject: Charter for freebsd-arch? User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.2.15 (More Than Words) SEMI/1.13.7 (Awazu) FLIM/1.13.2 (Kasanui) MULE XEmacs/21.1 (patch 8) (Bryce Canyon) (i386--freebsd) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.13.7 - "Awazu") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org eresources/chapter.sgml in Handbook says like this. But a question like "How do I write a network driver?" is not suitable for this ML? ----- FREEBSD-ARCH Architecture and design discussions This is a moderated list for discussion of FreeBSD architecture. Messages will mostly be kept technical in nature, with (rare) exceptions for other messages the moderator deems need to reach all the subscribers of the list. Examples of suitable topics; How to re-vamp the build system to have several customized builds running at the same time. What needs to be fixed with VFS to make Heidemann layers work. How do we change the device driver interface to be able to use the ame drivers cleanly on many buses and architectures? How do I write a network driver? The moderator reserves the right to do minor editing (spell-checking, grammar correction, trimming) of messages that are posted to the list. The volume of the list will be kept low, which may involve having to delay topics until an active discussion has been resolved. ----- Jun Kuriyama To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 25 23: 7:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B1C14C34; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:07:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuriyama@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from kuriyama@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA89602; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:07:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuriyama@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:07:25 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200001260707.XAA89602@freefall.freebsd.org> To: nkazushi@highway.ne.jp, kuriyama@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, kuriyama@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ports/15966: files under /usr/share/doc/ja/handbook/ broken code. Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: files under /usr/share/doc/ja/handbook/ broken code. State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: kuriyama State-Changed-When: Tue Jan 25 23:06:46 PST 2000 State-Changed-Why: Port "ja-handbook" had been disappeared. Please use package in ftp site as Fujishima-san said. Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->kuriyama Responsible-Changed-By: kuriyama Responsible-Changed-When: Tue Jan 25 23:06:46 PST 2000 Responsible-Changed-Why: I'll take this. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 26 5:34:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from serio.al.rim.or.jp (serio.al.rim.or.jp [202.247.191.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 166E914CE6 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 05:34:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp) Received: from mail1.rim.or.jp by serio.al.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W/HMX-12) with ESMTP id WAA28969 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:34:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from rhea.sky.rim.or.jp (ppp526.kt.rim.or.jp [202.247.140.176]) by mail1.rim.or.jp (3.7W/) id WAA24373 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:34:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost.sky.rim.or.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rhea.sky.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W/rhea-1.2) with ESMTP id WAA00398 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:34:37 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:34:36 +0900 Message-ID: <864sc1lzwz.wl@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp> From: Jun Kuriyama To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Translation of "High points" In-Reply-To: In your message of "Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:31:47 -0800" <20000123143147.A61414@azazel.zer0.org> References: <14475.3747.312979.33508R@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp> <20000123162758.A7382@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu> <20000123143147.A61414@azazel.zer0.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.2.15 (More Than Words) SEMI/1.13.7 (Awazu) FLIM/1.13.2 (Kasanui) MULE XEmacs/21.1 (patch 8) (Bryce Canyon) (i386--freebsd) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.13.7 - "Awazu") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Gregory Sutter > This is correct. The original author used "high points" to mean > "important events". Since it caused confusion, perhaps it should > be changed in the English handbook as well. Thanks. I'll modify Japanese Handbook to clarify this. If native English speaker was not confused by this phrase, I think it is not necessary to change. Jun Kuriyama // kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp // kuriyama@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 26 6:10:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from lucifer.bart.nl (lucifer.bart.nl [194.158.168.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7461E151B4 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:10:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@lucifer.bart.nl) Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by lucifer.bart.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21962; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:10:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:10:10 +0100 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: Jun Kuriyama Cc: Doc Team Subject: Re: Charter for freebsd-arch? Message-ID: <20000126151010.A21865@lucifer.bart.nl> References: <86oga9gvn5.wl@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <86oga9gvn5.wl@localhost.sky.rim.or.jp>; from kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp on Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 04:05:50PM +0900 Organisation: bART Internet Services B.V. Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -On [20000126 08:10], Jun Kuriyama (kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp) wrote: > >eresources/chapter.sgml in Handbook says like this. But a question >like "How do I write a network driver?" is not suitable for this ML? No, this list discusses the way FreeBSD needs to go in a more global view. Good threads to illustrate this was the threads thread. Sure, implimentation details get discussed, but we decide where we want to go. Now I hope I said that all correctly. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Network- and systemadministrator bART Internet Services / BSD: Technical excellence at its best VIA NET.WORKS Netherlands Tel: +31 - (0) 10 - 240 39 70 http://www.bart.nl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 26 12:17:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk (mail1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 049DD14CA3 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:17:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@freebsd.org) Received: from modem-58.infed.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.73.186]) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12DYsQ-0005mQ-00 for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:17:18 +0000 Received: (qmail 3139 invoked by uid 5000); 25 Jan 2000 22:35:48 -0000 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:35:48 +0000 From: Tom Hukins To: Michael Lyon Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CRiSP Freebsd Editor Message-ID: <20000125223548.B3094@eborcom.com> Mail-Followup-To: Michael Lyon , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.20000124085541.01145460@pop.crisp.com> <20000124221008.A5446@eborcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000124221008.A5446@eborcom.com>; from tom@FreeBSD.org on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:10:09PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 10:10:09PM +0000, Tom Hukins wrote: > On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 09:00:23AM -0600, Michael Lyon wrote: > > > > I would like to announce CRiSP to the visitors of your website and make > > a FREE evaluation of CRiSP available to them. This free evaluation of CRiSP > > can be downloaded at http://vital.com/download.htm. > > Michael, your product is already listed on the Web site > . Apologies. The real URL is . I should know better than to cite a URL on my home machine... Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 26 18:50: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rhubarb.fwi.com (rhubarb.fwi.com [209.84.175.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864D2154CB for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:49:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peeter@rhubarb.fwi.com) Received: (from peeter@localhost) by rhubarb.fwi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10851 for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:55:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from peeter) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:55:42 -0500 From: Peeter Pirn To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Wyse 60 HOWTO Message-ID: <20000126215542.A10812@rhubarb.fwi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The folks on the freebsd-questions list suggested I send this to you. --------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<-------- Please send corrections to peeter@rhubarb.fwi.com. SYSTEM: FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE Cyclom 8Yo+ IDE multiport serial card Wyse 60 terminal connected on /dev/ttyc00 (Port 1 on the Cyclom card) SYNOPSIS: If your users can live without X-Windows, adding terminals to your FreeBSD system is an affordable way to add users without building a LAN. After reconfiguring and rebuilding the kernel, I installed the Cyclom card using default settings. I followed the steps in the FreeBSD Handbook (12.4.3.3. Configuring the cy driver) for configuring the cy driver except for one major exception -- Port 1 on the Cyclom card is ttyc00, not ttyc0. I asked the freebsd-questions mailing list about how to properly cable a terminal room. The responses I got led me to discover the Yost Serial Device Wiring Standard (http://yost.com/computers/RJ45-serial/index.html). I assembled the cabling and tools to follow this standard and then connected a port on the Cyclom card to a Wyse terminal accordingly. The /etc/ttys file was then edited and the Wyse terminal was configured for vt100 terminal behavior. VENDORS: The list of vendors I used is listed below. All of these vendors sold me good products in a prompt and professional manner. I purchased the Cyclades Cyclom 8-Yo+ ISA (8-port) multiport serial card from www.sellcom.com. I purchased a Wyse 60 terminal from an Ebay auction. (The seller was Midwest Computer Brokers in Iowa.) For cabling between the Cyclom 8-Yo and the Wyse 60 terminal, I chose to follow the Yost Serial Device Wiring Standard (http://yost.com/computers/RJ45-serial/index.html). I purchased a Paladin PC Cable-Check PC cable tester from the Yahoo store. (The seller was www.web-tronics.com.) I purchased RJ45 plugs, an RJ45 crimp tool and Cat 5 cable from www.appleseedelectronics.com. I purchased RJ45 F to DB25 M adapters from www.pccables.com. I purchased DB25 F-to-F gender changers from www.stonecomputer.com. I special-ordered AMP Half Tap Filled Tel-Splice Connectors (AMP P/N 553017-2) and the Tel-Splice Crimp Tool (AMP P/N 231839-1) from www.newark.com. PROCEDURE: Kernel Configuration: I checked dmesg to see if there were other devices using IRQ 10 or memory addresses 0xd4000-0xd5FFF, which are the defaults in the kernel config file line for the Cyclom card (found in /sys/i386/conf/LINT and shown below). I did not find any, so I left the IRQ and memory location specified in the kernel config line alone. I copied the following line from /sys/i386/conf/LINT into my local kernel config file, also in /sys/i386/conf. # Cyclades multi-port serial card (Cyclades 8-Yo+) device cy0 at isa? tty irq 10 iomem 0xd4000 iosiz 0x2000 I confirmed in the Cyclom Y User's Guide pp.23-24 that the default dip switch settings corresponded to the IO and memory parameters specified in the kernel config. They did. I then rebuilt the kernel according to the FreeBSD Handbook (5.2. Building and Installing a Custom Kernel). Cyclom Card Installation: I then shut down the machine and installed the Cyclom 8-Yo+ card in an available ISA slot without changing the dip switches. After rebooting the system, I saw in dmesg that the kernel had properly detected the Cyclom card: cy0 irq 10 maddr 0xd4000 msize 8192 on isa (8192 = 0x2000, so the kernel config line does indeed match the dmesg output.) Though I did not encounter an IRQ conflict or IO memory conflict, I did note that the FreeBSD mailing list archive does contain articles about what specifically some people did to remedy such conflicts. Serial Cabling: My terminals can be up to 80 feet away from the server. I posted a question to the freebsd-questions mailing list asking how real terminal rooms are wired. I received some helpful hints which led me to the Yost Serial Device Wiring Standard (http://yost.com/computers/RJ45-serial/index.html). Instead of using different kinds of cables for various serial communications configurations, this standard always uses the same cable between any two serial devices (DCE or DTE). The difference between DCE and DTE is handled by constructing one custom adapter for DCE-s and another for DTE-s. The cables I used were standard CAT5 cables (I had to be mindful of how wires of a twisted pair were assigned to RJ45 plug pins, however. The standard specifies what to do.) I constructed the cables using CAT5 cables, RJ45 plugs, an RJ45 crimp tool and the standard. The custom adapters were DB25 M to RJ45 F adapters, specially wired to be either for DTE or for DCE and to conform to the standard. Instead of soldering wires 4 and 5 of the RJ45 end together, I chose to splice them using AMP Half Tap Filled Tel-Splice Connectors (AMP P/N 553017-2). (The corresponding crimp tool is the Tel-Splice Crimp Tool (AMP P/N 231839-1).) A Cyclom serial port and a Wyse 60 terminal are both DTE-s, so I made two Yost DTE adapters and plugged one into Port 1 of the serial card (with the help of a DB25 F-to-F gender changer) and the other into the MODEM port on the Wyse 60 terminal. The correct pin connections across two Yost DB25-to-RJ45 adapters, when connected with a Yost cable for the Cyclom-serial-port-to-Wyse-terminal (DTE-to-DTE, i.e., null-modem) connection, are: TD 2 -----\/------ 2 RD 3 -----/\------ 3 RTS 4 -----\/------ 4 CTS 5 -----/\------ 5 SG 7 ------------- 7 CD 8 ----\ /------ 8 X DTR 20----/ \------ 20 I confirmed this with a cable tester. It is my observation that buying cable, plugs, crimp tools, adapters, splice connectors and even a cable tester pays for itself when considering the difference in price between one PC and one terminal. If you're installing multiple terminals, you will save a lot of money over installing PC-s. Configure the terminal: Turn on the Wyse 60 terminal and type Shift-Setup to enter the configuration menu. The following settings may be enough to get things working: F1 DISP: COLUMNS=80, LINES=24 F2 GENERAL: PERSONALITY=VT 100, COM MODE=FULL DUPLEX, DATA/PRINTER=MODEM/AUX, RCVD CR=CR, ENHANCE=ON, END OF LINE WRAP=ON, AUTO SCRL=ON, SEND ACK=ON F4 COMM: BAUD RATE=19200, DATA/STOP BITS=8/1, PARITY=NONE, RCV HANDSHAKE=XON/XOFF, XMT HNDSHAKE=XON/XOFF, XPC HNDSHAKE=OFF The serial connection is made with the Modem port. Configure the Cyclades Driver: See the FreeBSD Handbook (12.4.3.3. Configuring the cy driver). Configure the Serial Port: See the FreeBSD Handbook (14.2.3. Terminal Configuration). Here are the relevant lines out of my /etc/ttys file: # # Serial devices connected to Cyclades Cyclom 8-Yo+ (cy0) 8-port # multiport serial card ttyc00 "/usr/libexec/getty std.19200" vt100 on insecure Once /etc/ttys is ready, there is no need to reboot. Just `kill -HUP 1' to force init to reread /etc/ttys. (The init process always has process ID 1.) TROUBLESHOOTING: Symptom: I see the following message on the console after rebooting or after `kill -HUP 1': getty: tcgetattr /dev/ttyc0: Inappropriate ioctl for device This is followed by: init: getty repeating too quickly on port /dev/ttyc0, sleeping 30 secs Solution: Change /etc/ttys entry from ttyc0 "/usr/libexec/getty std.19200" vt100 on insecure to ttyc00 "/usr/libexec/getty std.19200" vt100 on insecure --------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<-------- -- Peeter Pirn - peeter@rhubarb.fwi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 26 20:40: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4EE153FF for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:40:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA00239; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:40:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 32767) id 40D7415291; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:35:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <20000127043547.40D7415291@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:35:47 -0800 (PST) From: bobj@atlantic.net To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0 Subject: docs/16395: Typos etc. from Chapter 4 of FreeBSD Handbook Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 16395 >Category: docs >Synopsis: Typos etc. from Chapter 4 of FreeBSD Handbook >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: medium >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Wed Jan 26 20:40:01 PST 2000 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Bob Johnson >Release: Handbook on www.freebsd.org as of 26JAN >Organization: >Environment: N/A >Description: On reading Chapter 4 of Handbook, noted the following errors. URLs are references to the WWW pages on which the errors were noted. ------ http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/ports-using.html In Section 4.2.2. Removing Installed Ports "Now that you know how to install ports, you are probably wondering how to remove them, just in case you install one and later on you decided that you installed the wrong port." There is a change of tense here. "Decided" should be "decide". -------- http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/ports-trouble.html Section 4.3.1. Some Questions and Answers "Q: So why bother with ports then? A: Several reasons: 1.The licensing conditions of some software distributions forbids binary distribution. They must be distributed as source code. " Mixed number here. "Conditions" is plural, "forbids" is singular. Change "forbids" to "forbid". -------- same URL, i.e. http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/ports-trouble.html "A: As was explained in the compiling ports from CDROM section, some ports are unable to be put on the CDROM set due to licensing restrictions." I am uncomfortable with this phrasing, but I'm not sure why. I think it is because "some ports are unable" implies that the ports are responsible for putting themselves on the CDROM, and are unable to accomplish it. I would say "some ports cannot be put on the CDROM". If you don't like "cannot" because it is not literally accurate, perhaps "may not" is better? -------- same URL, i.e. http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/ports-trouble.html "Readers with an aversion to intricate shell-scripts are advised not to follow this link...) " This has a right-paren without a matching left-paren. ---------- same URL, i.e. http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/ports-trouble.html Section 4.3.2. Help! This port is broken! " 2.Gripe---by email only! Send email to the maintainer of the port first. Type make maintainer or read the Makefile to find the maintainter's email address. Remember to include the name and version of the port (sending the $FreeBSD: line from the Makefile and the output leading up to the error when you email the maintainer. If you do not get a response from the maintainer, you can use send-pr to submit a bug report. " And here we preserve parity by having a left-paren with no matching right-paren... I think the right-paren should be after "from the Makefile". ---------- Same URL, i.e. http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/ports-trouble.html Same section, 4.3.2 "These are more likely to work than trying to compile from source and are alot faster as well." "alot" should be two words, "a lot". ============ >How-To-Repeat: Read referenced pages. >Fix: Change as noted if you agree with my suggestions. >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jan 27 11:35:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA6D155C5; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:35:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from jim@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA59561; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:35:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim@FreeBSD.org) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:35:32 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200001271935.LAA59561@freefall.freebsd.org> To: jim@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, jim@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/16395: Typos etc. from Chapter 4 of FreeBSD Handbook Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: Typos etc. from Chapter 4 of FreeBSD Handbook Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->jim Responsible-Changed-By: jim Responsible-Changed-When: Thu Jan 27 11:35:08 PST 2000 Responsible-Changed-Why: I'll take this. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jan 27 22:27:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from april.cwnet.com (april.cwnet.com [205.162.110.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C47815019 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:27:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tkrai@cwnet.com) Received: from default (usr2-d9.stk.cwnet.com [209.21.20.57]) by april.cwnet.com (8.9.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA03621 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:27:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000801bf72c5$196a8bc0$391415d1@default> From: "Tanka Rai" To: Subject: Where can I buy a good Unix books Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 22:15:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF7282.0A2253C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF7282.0A2253C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello sir, Where can I buy a unix text guide books that explain how to install and = configure the operating system? However, I searched at the amazon.com = and found several books but I don't know which to buy it. please send me an email @ yonkirati@hotmail.com Thank you for your help Yan Rai ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF7282.0A2253C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello sir,
 
Where can I buy a unix text guide books = that=20 explain how to install  and configure the operating system?  = However,=20 I searched at the amazon.com and found several books but I don't = know which=20 to buy it.
 
please send me an email @
 
yonkirati@hotmail.com
 
Thank you for your help
Yan Rai
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF7282.0A2253C0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jan 28 0:53:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from sonet.crimea.ua (OTC-sl3-FLY.CRIS.NET [212.110.136.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F9B15BBE for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:53:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phantom@scorpion.crimea.ua) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sonet.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id KAA19587 for doc@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:58:24 +0300 (MSK) Received: (from phantom@localhost) by scorpion.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5+ssl+keepalive) id JAA14221; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:54:04 +0300 (MSK) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:54:04 +0300 From: Alexey Zelkin To: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: [andykv@co.ru: Document not found - http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ddwg/ddwg.html] Message-ID: <20000128095404.A14198@scorpion.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.7i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Forwarded message from Andrey Kvitka ----- From: "Andrey Kvitka" To: Subject: Document not found - http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ddwg/ddwg.html Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:42:15 +0300 Dear Sirs Where I can get the document on a Writing device drivers for FreeBSD? Best regards, Andrey Kvitka ----- End forwarded message ----- -- /* Alexey Zelkin && phantom@cris.net */ /* Tavric National University && phantom@crimea.edu */ /* http://www.ccssu.crimea.ua/~phantom && phantom@FreeBSD.org */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jan 28 2: 0:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from lucifer.bart.nl (lucifer.bart.nl [194.158.168.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E6614E24 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 02:00:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@lucifer.bart.nl) Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by lucifer.bart.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA43655; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:30:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:30:05 +0100 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: Tanka Rai Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where can I buy a good Unix books Message-ID: <20000128103005.D43485@lucifer.bart.nl> References: <000801bf72c5$196a8bc0$391415d1@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <000801bf72c5$196a8bc0$391415d1@default>; from tkrai@cwnet.com on Tue, Feb 08, 2000 at 10:15:43PM -0800 Organisation: bART Internet Services B.V. Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -On [20000128 07:30], Tanka Rai (tkrai@cwnet.com) wrote: >Hello sir, > >Where can I buy a unix text guide books that explain how to install >and configure the operating system? However, I searched at the >amazon.com and found several books but I don't know which to buy it. Depends, There's The Complete FreeBSD by our own Greg Lehey which might be the best for you at this time. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Network- and systemadministrator bART Internet Services / BSD: Technical excellence at its best VIA NET.WORKS Netherlands Tel: +31 - (0) 10 - 240 39 70 http://www.bart.nl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jan 28 11:50:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 996B414DA1 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:50:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA85122; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:50:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from teru.dyndns.org (dnai-207-181-237-81.cust.dnai.com [207.181.237.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE16315CBD for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:41:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ace@teru.dyndns.org) Received: (from ace@localhost) by teru.blacktabby.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA05942; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:27:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ace) Message-Id: <200001280827.AAA05942@teru.blacktabby.dyndns.org> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:27:11 -0800 (PST) From: Adam.Kranzel@teru.dyndns.org (shade@dnai.com) Reply-To: shade@dnai.com To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/16430: Minor fixes for the locate(1) manpage Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 16430 >Category: docs >Synopsis: Minor fixes for the locate(1) manpage >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Fri Jan 28 11:50:03 PST 2000 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Adam Kranzel >Release: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 >Organization: >Environment: FreeBSD teru.blacktabby.dyndns.org 3.4-STABLE FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE #0: Wed Jan 26 09:28:28 PST 2000 root@teru.blacktabby.dyndns.org:/usr/src/sys/compile/TERU i386 >Description: There are some minor spelling and grammar mistakes in the locate(1) manpage. The attached diff should fix them. >How-To-Repeat: n/a >Fix: Apply the following to /usr/src/usr.bin/locate/locate/locate.1 --- locate.1 Thu Jan 27 23:19:50 2000 +++ locate.1.new Fri Jan 28 00:16:32 2000 @@ -217,13 +217,13 @@ database was built by user .Dq nobody . .Xr find 1 -skip directories, +skips directories which are not readable for user .Dq nobody , group .Dq nobody , or -world. E.g. if your HOME directory ist not world-readable, all your +world. E.g. if your HOME directory is not world-readable, all your files are .Ar not in the database. >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jan 28 12:18:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from luna.cdrom.com (luna.cdrom.com [204.216.28.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EE6E15D30 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:18:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim@luna.cdrom.com) Received: (from jim@localhost) by luna.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01445 for doc@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:18:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:18:14 -0800 From: Jim Mock To: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Handbook updates Message-ID: <20000128121814.A1267@luna.cdrom.com> Reply-To: jim@luna.cdrom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Howdy all, Here's the latest round of handbook updates/info. As usual, if you're working on something and I don't have it listed here it's because I don't know about it, so please get ahold of me so I can add it. Finished items -------------- o Chapter 1, Introduction o Chapter 2, Installing FreeBSD o Chapter 4, Ports Collection o Chapter 10, Quotas over NFS section o Chapter 14, PPPoE section o Chapter 15, NIS/YP section o Chapter 16, Electronic Mail Work in Progress ---------------- o Chapter 3, Unix Basics - Chris Shumway o Chapter 6, Security - Bill Swingle o Chapter 7, Printing - Joel Sutton o Chapter 14, PPP and SLIP - myself o Chapter 15, DHCP section - Greg Sutter o Chapter 15, DNS section - Nick Esborn o Appendix F, Hardware Compat. - Greg Sutter Other noteworthy items.. The chapter formerly known as 12 has been -ified and moved to the Appendices courtesy of Neil Blakey-Milner . This means the chapter numbers have all gone down by one. Please make note of that if you're reading through previous messages and the chapter numbers don't match. I'd also like to thank Bob Johnson for taking the time to read through most of the completed sections and sent in corrections, and everyone else who's sent comments, patches, random words of encouragement, and missing sections. Thanks for taking the time to do this. - jim -- - jim mock - walnut creek cdrom/freebsd test labs - jim@luna.cdrom.com - - phone: 1.925.691.2800 x.3814 - fax: 1.925.674.0821 - jim@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jan 28 12:21:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB6515CFE; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:21:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id MAA88441; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:21:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:21:16 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200001282021.MAA88441@freefall.freebsd.org> To: shade@dnai.com, asmodai@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/16430: Minor fixes for the locate(1) manpage Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: Minor fixes for the locate(1) manpage State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: asmodai State-Changed-When: Fri Jan 28 12:20:44 PST 2000 State-Changed-Why: Fixed in rev 1.13 of locate.1 Thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jan 28 14: 1:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8240715BD1 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:01:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from howardjp@wam.umd.edu) Received: from rac3.wam.umd.edu (root@rac3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.143]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18674 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:01:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from rac3.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA01972 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:01:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by rac3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01965 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:01:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: rac3.wam.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:01:32 -0500 (EST) From: James Howard To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: We need more books! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org So I have been waiting for six months to be informed if Amazon can find any used copies of the 4.4BSD books from O'Reilly. Now, this seems to suggest to me that there is both a serious demand and a serious shortage of this content. However, I do have two volumns and a lot of the rest is on the web. It shows that this material is also out of date. How about updating all this for FreeBSD 4 (or 5 if this is a bigger project than I expect). Would Walnut Creek be willing to publish the series again? Might Bell Labs permit thier proprietary documents to be republished as needed? I do have rights to redistribute the dc document, so that shows some willingness. Would anyone else be interested in this? Have I asked this before? Have I just volunteered? :) On another vein, O'Reilly has contuned to disappoint me by not publishing a "FreeBSD in a Nutshell." Would Walnut Creek take on such a project? I realize the name cannot be used but the spirit of the book and its functionality is what needs to be copied :) On a semi-related note, I once heard about a future magazine called "BSD Journal" or something in the works. What ever became of that? Thanks, Jamie -- Jamie Howard To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jan 28 14:15:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0879615CC9 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:15:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08540; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:14:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <200001282214.PAA08540@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: We need more books! In-Reply-To: from James Howard at "Jan 28, 0 05:01:32 pm" To: howardjp@wam.umd.edu (James Howard) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:14:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As I recall, James Howard wrote: > So I have been waiting for six months to be informed if Amazon can > find any used copies of the 4.4BSD books from O'Reilly. Now, this > seems to suggest to me that there is both a serious demand and a > serious shortage of this content. I have two complete sets. I'm not interested in selling them, though. The ISBN for the 5 volume set is 1-56592-082-1, and I had some luck searching for that. The books were published in assocation with USENIX, whom I believe have the rights. Perhaps we should contact them? -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jan 28 15:40:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from luna.cdrom.com (luna.cdrom.com [204.216.28.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA9F14FB4 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:40:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim@luna.cdrom.com) Received: (from jim@localhost) by luna.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03346; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:40:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:40:06 -0800 From: Jim Mock To: James Howard Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We need more books! Message-ID: <20000128154006.A3201@luna.cdrom.com> Reply-To: jim@luna.cdrom.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from howardjp@wam.umd.edu on Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 05:01:32PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 at 17:01:32 -0500, James Howard wrote: [snip..] > On another vein, O'Reilly has contuned to disappoint me by not > publishing a "FreeBSD in a Nutshell." I just wanted to make a quick note on this. As far as I know, and the last I heard anything about it, O'Reilly was/is interested in doing a FreeBSD in a Nutshell book, but the reason it hasn't been published is because no one has written it :-) There are also a few other (4 or 5 IIRC) FreeBSD books being worked on by various people. > Would Walnut Creek take on such a project? I can't give a yes or no answer here, but we would still need someone to write the book whether it was us (WC) or O'Reilly doing it. > On a semi-related note, I once heard about a future magazine called > "BSD Journal" or something in the works. What ever became of that? I'm not sure what happened with this.. it seemed to have disappeared off the face of the earth.. - jim -- - jim mock - walnut creek cdrom/freebsd test labs - jim@luna.cdrom.com - - phone: 1.925.691.2800 x.3814 - fax: 1.925.674.0821 - jim@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jan 28 18: 5:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from relay.dtcom.dp.ua (relay.dtcom.dp.ua [195.24.159.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25F4214C2D for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:05:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gershkul@chat.ru) Received: from line3.dtcom.dp.ua (line3.dtcom.dp.ua [195.24.159.113]) by relay.dtcom.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA72667 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:23:47 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from gershkul@chat.ru) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:04:19 +0200 From: Alexander X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.38e) S/N A1D26E39 / Educational Reply-To: Alexander Organization: S&V Srars inc X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <17169.000129@chat.ru> To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello freebsd-doc, -- Best regards, Alexander mailto:gershkul@chat.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jan 28 20:23:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A27614F00 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:23:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA47617; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:53:20 +1030 (CST) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:53:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: James Howard , Jim Mock Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We need more books! Message-ID: <20000129145320.K17521@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000128154006.A3201@luna.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 28 January 2000 at 17:01:32 -0500, James Howard wrote: > So I have been waiting for six months to be informed if Amazon can find > any used copies of the 4.4BSD books from O'Reilly. Now, this seems to > suggest to me that there is both a serious demand and a serious shortage > of this content. However, I do have two volumns and a lot of the rest is > on the web. It shows that this material is also out of date. How about > updating all this for FreeBSD 4 (or 5 if this is a bigger project than I > expect). Would Walnut Creek be willing to publish the series > again? Not last time I talked to them. The demand is too low, though if you could drum up orders for, say, 100 or so, I'm sure they could be persuaded. O'Reilly was underwhelmed by the demand for the books. > Might Bell Labs permit thier proprietary documents to be republished > as needed? I do have rights to redistribute the dc document, so > that shows some willingness. Would anyone else be interested in > this? I've spoken to Dion Johnson at SCO, and he thinks that something like that might be possible. I suppose I should bug him again. Don't you bug him right now; we don't want to spam him. > Have I asked this before? Not that I noticed. > Have I just volunteered? :) Yes. > On another vein, O'Reilly has contuned to disappoint me by not > publishing a "FreeBSD in a Nutshell." Would Walnut Creek take on > such a project? I realize the name cannot be used but the spirit of > the book and its functionality is what needs to be copied :) I have here on my desk a contract from O'Reilly for a book called "FreeBSD Administration and Networking". That's due for publication in about 12 months' time. I don't think they'll do much else in the meantime, but you could try. I'm copying my editor at O'Reilly (Bcc: because I'm not sure he wants his name known; Editor, you know who you are. Feel free to reply to the thread if you want). > On a semi-related note, I once heard about a future magazine called > "BSD Journal" or something in the works. What ever became of that? It never got off the ground. On Friday, 28 January 2000 at 15:40:06 -0800, Jim Mock wrote: > On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 at 17:01:32 -0500, James Howard wrote: > [snip..] > >> On another vein, O'Reilly has contuned to disappoint me by not >> publishing a "FreeBSD in a Nutshell." > > I just wanted to make a quick note on this. As far as I know, and the > last I heard anything about it, O'Reilly was/is interested in doing a > FreeBSD in a Nutshell book, but the reason it hasn't been published is > because no one has written it :-) Do you have names? > There are also a few other (4 or 5 IIRC) FreeBSD books being worked on > by various people. > >> Would Walnut Creek take on such a project? > > I can't give a yes or no answer here, but we would still need someone to > write the book whether it was us (WC) or O'Reilly doing it. I think it would be easier to take, say, O'Reilly's "UNIX in a nutshell" and convert it to FreeBSD. That would mean that O'Reilly publishes it, of course. Do we have any volunteers to do the work? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jan 28 22:42:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C0815EE7; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:42:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from chris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA73578; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:42:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:42:58 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200001290642.WAA73578@freefall.freebsd.org> To: n_hibma@webweaving.org, chris@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/16345: share/man/man7/hier.7 out of date Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: share/man/man7/hier.7 out of date State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: chris State-Changed-When: Fri Jan 28 22:42:35 PST 2000 State-Changed-Why: Committed, thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jan 29 3:16:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f41.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7CDB914C9F for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:16:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from maw58@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 45478 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 2000 11:16:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20000129111650.45477.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 62.11.54.130 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:16:50 PST X-Originating-IP: [62.11.54.130] From: "M.A.W. Media Art Work" To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Italian FreeBSD mailing List Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:16:50 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I've just created a new mailing list for the italian Documentation Project. Could you kindly insert this new address : bsdproj@listbot.com to the FreeBSD Mailing Lists? Thanks in advance. Mariarosa Sartorelli ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jan 29 6:50: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C831B155F9 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id GAA76325; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.de (mailout06.sul.t-online.de [194.25.134.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F11F16278 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:42:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Karlheinz.Eckmeier@t-online.de) Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12EZ4k-0007x1-00; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:42:10 +0100 Received: from abakus.my.domain (09064958-0001@[62.158.61.204]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.de with esmtp id 12EZ4c-0WyDZoC; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:42:02 +0100 Received: (from khe@localhost) by abakus.my.domain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00654; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:42:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from khe) Message-Id: <200001291442.PAA00654@abakus.my.domain> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:42:15 +0100 (CET) From: Karlheinz.Eckmeier@t-online.de Reply-To: Karlheinz.Eckmeier@t-online.de To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/16439: fdp-primer - difficulties with split SGML files Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 16439 >Category: docs >Synopsis: fdp-primer - difficulties with split SGML files >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: medium >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: change-request >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sat Jan 29 06:50:02 PST 2000 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Karlheinz Eckmeier >Release: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 >Organization: >Environment: doc-all from cvsup.de.FreeBSD.org ( release=cvs tag=. ) xemacs-20.4 + psgml 1.2.0 >Description: The last part in of "6.3.1.1.3 directory/chapter/sgml" says: Each chapter.sgml file will not be a complete SGML document. In particular, they will not have their own DOCTYPE line at the start of the file. This is unfortunate for two reasons; * It makes it impossible to treat these as generic SGML files and simply convert them to HTML, RTF, PS, and other formats in the same way the main Handbook is generated. This would force you to rebuild the Handbook every time you want to see the effect a change as had on just one chapter. * Emacs' sgml-mode can not use it to determine the DTD to use, losing useful benefits of sgml-mode (element completion, automatic validation, and so on). >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: I propose to change or to drop these two paragraphs because of the following reasons: 1) Regarding the first paragraph I would like to suggest a different approach. It is true, one cannot treat these "partial" SGML-files the same as a complete SGML document. But using a little workaround would allow to generate the output formats of only the part actually being worked on: - Create a template SGML file containing all the elements the partial SGML files is missing (DOCTYPE, ,). It also contains an template external general entity to include a partial SGML file at the appropriate place. - Create a script with the following functions: + When called with a partial SGML file as parameter it passes the template file through sed to change the template entity to include the specified partial SGML file and thus creating a valid SGML document. + Start the appropriate make process to generate the desired output format. + Print the contents of the jade log file to stdout - Configure the compile command of xemacs to start the above script when editing a SGML file. All the errors discovered by jade (i.e. the contents of the jade log file) will show up in the compilation buffer of xemacs and can be stepped through via the "next-error" command of xemacs. I've build something like this for some other project running along much the same lines (one big SGML document split into many partial SGML files and distributed across serveral directories). I'm sure it can be adapted to the structures used here if there is any interest. Well, is there?? 2) The second paragraph is no longer valid. Maybe this was a problem with older versions of psgml, but at least with current versions of xemacs and psgml (I'm using xemacs-20.4 and psgml 1.2.0) it is possible to make this work. The inclusion of the local variable sgml-parent-document at the end of all the .sgml files within the document tree leads me to the conclusion, that this feature is already in use by the maintainers and only the documentation has to be updated. Maybe the wording of this paragraph should be changed to something along the lines of the following text: ====== begin =================================================== "It makes it more difficult for Emacs' sgml-mode to determine the DTD to use, which it needs to provide it's useful benefits of element completion, automatic validation and so on. * Make sure the sgml-catalog-files variable contains the paths to all necessary catalog files. It can be set by specifing the environment variable SGML_CATALOG_FILES (see Example 3-6 and 3-7 in "3.2 Elements, tags, and attributes") or setting it directly within your .emacs file. Example: Setting sgml-catalog-files within .emacs (setq sgml-catalog-files '( "/usr/local/share/sgml/docbook/3.1/docbook.cat" "/usr/local/share/sgml/jade/catalog" "/usr/local/share/sgml/iso8879/catalog" "/usr/src/doc/share/sgml/catalog")) Note: This does not work if the specified catalog file contains references to other catalog files via the CATALOG keyword. Emacs' sgml-mode does not follow such references to find the declarations of public entities. * Specify sgml-parent-document as local variable within each "partial" sgml file to provide a reference to Emacs' sgml-mode where to look next for the missing DOCTYPE declaration. It is possible to build a chain of multiple sgml files with the last "top level" file containing the DOCTYPE declaration. Put something like this at the end of the each partial sgml files: Example: Use of local variable sgml-parent-document ====== end ===================================================== >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jan 29 6:57:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from umd5.umd.edu (umd5.umd.edu [128.8.10.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 981AE14CA2 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:57:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from howardjp@wam.umd.edu) Received: from morse.umd.edu (morse.umd.edu [128.8.10.185]) by umd5.umd.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA16569; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:57:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by morse.umd.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA09401; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:57:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: morse.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:57:11 -0500 (EST) From: James Howard X-Sender: howardjp@morse.umd.edu To: Greg Lehey Cc: Jim Mock , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We need more books! In-Reply-To: <20000129145320.K17521@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Greg Lehey wrote: > I think it would be easier to take, say, O'Reilly's "UNIX in a > nutshell" and convert it to FreeBSD. That would mean that O'Reilly > publishes it, of course. Do we have any volunteers to do the work? I am willing to think about it. :) No really, if someoen can show me that the work would be used, I'd be game. I have "UNIX in a Nutshell" and have looked to see what would be required and it doesn't look like a overwhelming amount of work. Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jan 29 7:34: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B41F150D9; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 07:34:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27260; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:43:58 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:43:58 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: John Baldwin Cc: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: General cleanup of the Committers Guide Message-ID: <20000129144357.A94214@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <200001241918.OAA16513@server.baldwin.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <200001241918.OAA16513@server.baldwin.cx>; from John Baldwin on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 02:18:46PM -0500 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 02:18:46PM -0500, John Baldwin wrote: > I've gone through and given the committers guide a small overhaul and would > appreciate any feedback on the patch. The patch can be found at: > > http://www.freebsd.org/~jhb/patches/cg.patch 404 not found. Feel free to e-mail them to me. N -- If you want to imagine the future, imagine a tennis shoe stamping on a penguin's face forever. --- with apologies to George Orwell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jan 29 8: 4:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from server.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6AE14E91; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:04:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (john [10.0.0.2]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA44589; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:04:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <200001291604.LAA44589@server.baldwin.cx> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20000129144357.A94214@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:04:23 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Nik Clayton Subject: Re: General cleanup of the Committers Guide Cc: doc@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 29-Jan-00 Nik Clayton wrote: > On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 02:18:46PM -0500, John Baldwin wrote: >> I've gone through and given the committers guide a small overhaul and would >> appreciate any feedback on the patch. The patch can be found at: >> >> http://www.freebsd.org/~jhb/patches/cg.patch > > 404 not found. > > Feel free to e-mail them to me. Oh, I went ahead and committed them after 3 days, should I wait longer in the future?: jhb 2000/01/27 07:31:38 PST Modified files: en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/committers-guide article.sgml Log: Patch to the committers guide including several grammar fixes, markup fixes, and re-wordings to try and make the text clearer. I also expanded several contractions, mentioned Bill Fenner's whodid script, and added a couple of clarifications. Reviewed by: obrien, nbm Reviewed by: Will Andrews Revision Changes Path 1.16 +80 -77 doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/committers-guide/article.sgml > N > -- > If you want to imagine the future, imagine a tennis shoe stamping > on a penguin's face forever. > --- with apologies to George Orwell -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jan 29 8:59:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [209.249.56.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D19AD14C3A for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:59:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA94080; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:58:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:58:51 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: James Howard Cc: Greg Lehey , Jim Mock , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We need more books! Message-ID: <20000129085851.C93868@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <20000129145320.K17521@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from howardjp@wam.umd.edu on Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 09:57:11AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 09:57:11AM -0500, James Howard wrote: > On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > I think it would be easier to take, say, O'Reilly's "UNIX in a > > nutshell" and convert it to FreeBSD. That would mean that O'Reilly > > publishes it, of course. Do we have any volunteers to do the work? > > I am willing to think about it. :) No really, if someoen can show me > that the work would be used, I'd be game. I have "UNIX in a Nutshell" and > have looked to see what would be required and it doesn't look like a > overwhelming amount of work. If one were to take sections from "Unix in a nutshell" and "Linux in a nut shell" one would have a large part of it. I would be willing to work sections of it. I don't believe I just said that. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.4 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jan 29 9:33:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f17.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 31C1915BCA for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:33:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from maw58@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 63520 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 2000 17:33:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20000129173324.63519.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 62.11.53.38 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:33:24 PST X-Originating-IP: [62.11.53.38] From: "M.A.W. Media Art Work" To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Italian FreeBSD mailing List Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:33:24 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I've just created a new mailing list for the italian Documentation Project. Could you kindly insert the new web page and mailing list : italianbsd.koolhost.com bsdproj@listbot.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jan 29 15:53: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68DB314F94 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:53:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from howardjp@wam.umd.edu) Received: from rac5.wam.umd.edu (root@rac5.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.145]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05654; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:52:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from rac5.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac5.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA01811; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:52:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by rac5.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01807; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:52:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: rac5.wam.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:52:43 -0500 (EST) From: James Howard To: Josef Grosch Cc: Greg Lehey , Jim Mock , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We need more books! In-Reply-To: <20000129085851.C93868@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 09:57:11AM -0500, James Howard wrote: > > On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > > I think it would be easier to take, say, O'Reilly's "UNIX in a > > > nutshell" and convert it to FreeBSD. That would mean that O'Reilly > > > publishes it, of course. Do we have any volunteers to do the work? > > > > I am willing to think about it. :) No really, if someoen can show me > > that the work would be used, I'd be game. I have "UNIX in a Nutshell" and > > have looked to see what would be required and it doesn't look like a > > overwhelming amount of work. > > If one were to take sections from "Unix in a nutshell" and "Linux in a nut > shell" one would have a large part of it. I would be willing to work > sections of it. I don't believe I just said that. Yeah, I felt the same way after the previous post :) Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jan 29 17:50: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98EB51509E for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:50:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id RAA36928; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:50:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 32767) id 7F52614E8E; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:48:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <20000130014838.7F52614E8E@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:48:38 -0800 (PST) From: spock@techfour.net To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0 Subject: docs/16463: doc-bug in usr.sbin/i4b/isdndecode/isdndecode.8 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 16463 >Category: docs >Synopsis: doc-bug in usr.sbin/i4b/isdndecode/isdndecode.8 >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sat Jan 29 17:50:01 PST 2000 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Mike Heffner >Release: 4.0-current >Organization: >Environment: FreeBSD --.com 4.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #0: Tue Jan 25 20:51:45 EST 2000 spock@--.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/BUTTER i386 >Description: from isdndecode.8: The command: isdndecode -f /var/tmp/isdn.decode will start ... and logs everything into the output file /tmp/is-dn.decode. ^^^ /var/tmp/... ? >How-To-Repeat: read the isdndecode(8) manpage >Fix: Index: usr.sbin/i4b/isdndecode/isdndecode.8 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/usr.sbin/i4b/isdndecode/isdndecode.8,v retrieving revision 1.7 diff -u -r1.7 isdndecode.8 --- isdndecode.8 1999/12/14 21:07:37 1.7 +++ isdndecode.8 2000/01/30 01:42:58 @@ -165,7 +165,7 @@ .Pp will start D channel tracing on passive controller 0 with all except B channel tracing enabled and logs everything into the output file -/tmp/isdn.decode. +/var/tmp/isdn.decode. .Sh SEE ALSO .Xr isdnd 8 >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message