From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jan 3 2: 2:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon2.gun.de [192.109.159.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 136E914C38 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:02:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16145 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:02:20 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA51993 for hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:01:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:01:22 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) Message-ID: <20000103110122.A51451@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi ! In the last german C't magazine they tested the Maxtor 92041U4 Diamond Max VL20 19541 MB, 5400 U/min, 512K cache, 3.5"/1" Random Access: 12,3/8,7ms Sustained Transferrate read: 12,9/19,9/24,8 MByte/sec (min/aver/max) Sustained Transferrate write: 7,12/19,8/24,8 MByte/sec (min/aver/max) weighted average: 12,3 MByte/sec Noise (no access): 28,4/0,7 (dBA/Sone) Noise (access) : 34,4/1,5 (dBA/Sone) This drive costs DM 355 (~ $180) Now I saw in the Magazine, that there is a similar drive available, with 2 MB cache and another drive which has additionally 7200 U/min. Does somebody know the following drives ? U92720U8, 27.2 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 440.- (~ $220) U92732U8, 27.3 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 7200 U/min DM 460.- (~ $230) U93652U8, 36.5 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 585.- (~ $290) U94098U8, 40.0 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 635.- (~ $315) Do you think, the large drives (36.5 or 40 GB) will run under FreeBSD 3.4 and 4.0 current well ??? I have a Tyan Titan Pro mainboard and last year I flashed a new BIOS. I think I would have to look, if my BIOS supports the drives and Ultra DMA 4 or for what things do I have to look ? Sorry for the maybe dumb questions, but I'm used to buy/use SCSI hardware, but this time I want to buy not too expensive hardware and not so noisy EIDE drives, to finally get rid of 4 harddisks in my tower. SCSI remains for CD-ROM, Burner, SCSI Tape and one exchangeble SCSI disk to try other BSD, Linux, Solaris OS's on demand. Thanks for any recommendation. Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD Get new songs from our band: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/64bits/index.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jan 3 2:46:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE2814D43 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:46:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01659 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:46:25 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01665 for hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:46:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:46:11 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New Maxtor 40plus (was Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... ) Message-ID: <20000103114611.A1638@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <20000103110122.A51451@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000103110122.A51451@titan.klemm.gtn.com>; from andreas@klemm.gtn.com on Mon, Jan 03, 2000 at 11:01:22AM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just noticed, that Maxtor has a new product: Maxtor 40 plus http://www.maxtor.com/diamondmaxplus/40p.html This drive runs at 7200... Does somebody use this drive ? What about noise, performance, heat, price ??? Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD Get new songs from our band: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/64bits/index.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jan 3 10:12:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (benge.graphics.cornell.edu [128.84.247.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB67714D0C for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:12:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (mkc@localhost) by benge.graphics.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11110; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:12:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Message-Id: <200001031812.NAA11110@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> To: Andreas Klemm Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New Maxtor 40plus (was Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... ) In-Reply-To: Message from Andreas Klemm of "Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:46:11 +0100." <20000103114611.A1638@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:12:26 -0500 From: Mitch Collinsworth Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >I just noticed, that Maxtor has a new product: Maxtor 40 plus > > http://www.maxtor.com/diamondmaxplus/40p.html > >This drive runs at 7200... > >Does somebody use this drive ? > >What about noise, performance, heat, price ??? Well if you kept reading you'd see that this page also says Maxtor intends volume production to begin this month, which implies that customers don't have them yet, and that they're estimating retail pricing to be $349 for the 40.9 GB model. There is also a paragraph about performance specs, but I'll let you read that for yourself. Sounds great. I want some! -Mitch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jan 3 10:18:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (benge.graphics.cornell.edu [128.84.247.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA2E114F39 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:18:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (mkc@localhost) by benge.graphics.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11146; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:17:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Message-Id: <200001031817.NAA11146@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> To: Andreas Klemm Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) In-Reply-To: Message from Andreas Klemm of "Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:01:22 +0100." <20000103110122.A51451@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:17:54 -0500 From: Mitch Collinsworth Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Now I saw in the Magazine, that there is a similar drive available, >with 2 MB cache and another drive which has additionally 7200 U/min. > >Does somebody know the following drives ? >U92720U8, 27.2 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 440.- (~ $220) >U92732U8, 27.3 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 7200 U/min DM 460.- (~ $230) >U93652U8, 36.5 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 585.- (~ $290) >U94098U8, 40.0 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 635.- (~ $315) > >Do you think, the large drives (36.5 or 40 GB) will run under >FreeBSD 3.4 and 4.0 current well ??? From what we've been hearing they will probably be fine, though with 3.4 you will have to either make partitions no larger than 27 GB or else use the new IDE driver from 4.0. -Mitch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jan 3 10:42:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from camus.cybercable.fr (camus.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C7DCB14EBA for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:42:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from herbelot@cybercable.fr) Received: (qmail 18083945 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2000 18:42:37 -0000 Received: from d016.paris-30.cybercable.fr (HELO cybercable.fr) ([212.198.30.16]) (envelope-sender ) by camus.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 3 Jan 2000 18:42:37 -0000 Message-ID: <3870EDC7.66BC88E8@cybercable.fr> Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:43:19 +0100 From: Thierry Herbelot X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andreas Klemm Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) References: <20000103110122.A51451@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Just to tell you I'm the proud and satisfied owner of a UDMA-66 18G drive from Maxtor. It works very well with the new ATA IDE driver from 4.0 (20 MB/s for sustained reads !!!) TfH BTW : noch ein mal, vielen dank's fur SOS Andreas Klemm wrote: > > Hi ! > > In the last german C't magazine they tested the Maxtor > 92041U4 Diamond Max VL20 > > 19541 MB, 5400 U/min, 512K cache, 3.5"/1" > Random Access: 12,3/8,7ms > Sustained Transferrate read: 12,9/19,9/24,8 MByte/sec (min/aver/max) > Sustained Transferrate write: 7,12/19,8/24,8 MByte/sec (min/aver/max) > weighted average: 12,3 MByte/sec > Noise (no access): 28,4/0,7 (dBA/Sone) > Noise (access) : 34,4/1,5 (dBA/Sone) > [SNIP] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jan 3 14:37:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF4CC14EC0 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:37:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA82666; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:36:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:36:47 +1100 From: Jonathan Michaels To: Mitch Collinsworth Cc: Andreas Klemm , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) Message-ID: <20000104093645.A82450@phoenix.welearn.com.au> Reply-To: jon@welearn.com.au Mail-Followup-To: Mitch Collinsworth , Andreas Klemm , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200001031817.NAA11146@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <200001031817.NAA11146@benge.graphics.cornell.edu>; from Mitch Collinsworth on Mon, Jan 03, 2000 at 01:17:54PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jan 03, 2000 at 01:17:54PM -0500, Mitch Collinsworth wrote: > > >Now I saw in the Magazine, that there is a similar drive available, > >with 2 MB cache and another drive which has additionally 7200 U/min. > > > >Does somebody know the following drives ? > >U92720U8, 27.2 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 440.- (~ $220) > >U92732U8, 27.3 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 7200 U/min DM 460.- (~ $230) > >U93652U8, 36.5 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 585.- (~ $290) > >U94098U8, 40.0 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 635.- (~ $315) > > > >Do you think, the large drives (36.5 or 40 GB) will run under > >FreeBSD 3.4 and 4.0 current well ??? > > >From what we've been hearing they will probably be fine, though with > 3.4 you will have to either make partitions no larger than 27 GB or > else use the new IDE driver from 4.0. ummm, i realise that this might be a silly question, i'm not that familiar with scsi devices at all and harddrives seem to me to be the most arcane of the esoterica that is scsi. when, if, such ddevices become available for the scsi bus will the end user require doing anything special, ummm, that is take sepcial measures like your proposing for the 'ide' type bus version of these large drive devices ? i've use scsi where ever possible, because of the inherent reliability and performance (for my meager requirements) issues, such as they are. i'm assuming that such 'large' drives are created by increasing the packing density of cylinders, also the number of sectors per cylinder and that the scsi host adapter is required to have ever more processing 'grunt' to keep up with the required workload ... are these new drives more fragile than thier older and less dense counterparts, given the increase in manufacturing and materials technologies over the same period of time. is freebsd in the ball park as regards keeping up with the 'trends', as it apreas to be going .. that being single unit devices with large capacities and little if any, ummm 'scaling', wuummm, er interdevice compatability. i remember the old ide devices, even the same model from a given manufacturer would have difficulties existing in a chain of more than one device, this has (to my knowledge, or experience) not (if ever) been a probelm with scsi. of the very few that i have heard about all were replaced as warrentable failures with the replacements working as expected in chains of 5 or more devices. ideas, opinions musing etc would be most apreciated. warm regards and thanks .. best wishes for the new year. cheers, jonathan -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jan 3 15: 8:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (benge.graphics.cornell.edu [128.84.247.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED43414CEE for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:08:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (mkc@localhost) by benge.graphics.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12767; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:08:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Message-Id: <200001032308.SAA12767@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> To: jon@welearn.com.au Cc: Andreas Klemm , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) In-Reply-To: Message from Jonathan Michaels of "Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:36:47 +1100." <20000104093645.A82450@phoenix.welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 18:08:25 -0500 From: Mitch Collinsworth Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> >Now I saw in the Magazine, that there is a similar drive available, >> >with 2 MB cache and another drive which has additionally 7200 U/min. >> > >> >Does somebody know the following drives ? >> >U92720U8, 27.2 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 440.- (~ $220) >> >U92732U8, 27.3 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 7200 U/min DM 460.- (~ $230) >> >U93652U8, 36.5 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 585.- (~ $290) >> >U94098U8, 40.0 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 635.- (~ $315) >> > >> >Do you think, the large drives (36.5 or 40 GB) will run under >> >FreeBSD 3.4 and 4.0 current well ??? >> >> >From what we've been hearing they will probably be fine, though with >> 3.4 you will have to either make partitions no larger than 27 GB or >> else use the new IDE driver from 4.0. > >when, if, such ddevices become available for the scsi bus will >the end user require doing anything special, ummm, that is take >sepcial measures like your proposing for the 'ide' type bus >version of these large drive devices ? i've use scsi where ever >possible, because of the inherent reliability and performance >(for my meager requirements) issues, such as they are. when/if? SCSI is ahead of IDE. I have sitting here on the floor by my desk a box containing two 50 GB SCSI drives purchased a couple weeks ago. I have yet to install them but as far as I'm aware from reading the freebsd lists there are no such problems as that above with large SCSI disks and freebsd. >i'm assuming that such 'large' drives are created by increasing >the packing density of cylinders, also the number of sectors >per cylinder and that the scsi host adapter is required to >have ever more processing 'grunt' to keep up with the required >workload ... are these new drives more fragile than thier older >and less dense counterparts, given the increase in >manufacturing and materials technologies over the same period >of time. My understanding as well as personal experience with newer technology drives (9-18 GB capacity), is that the newer drives are much more reliable than their predecessors from the 1-2 GB capacity era a few years ago when failures were much more common. A web page I was just reading states that the newer drives have fewer heads, a lower frictional coefficient, and a higher surface to volume ratio. The result of these differences is less noise and lower heat. And lower heat should directly correlate to fewer drive failures. We used to see the 1 and 2 GB drives fail regularly. I've still not seen any 9 GB or larger drives fail. >is freebsd in the ball park as regards keeping up with the >'trends', as it apreas to be going .. that being single unit >devices with large capacities and little if any, ummm >'scaling', wuummm, er interdevice compatability. i remember the >old ide devices, even the same model from a given manufacturer >would have difficulties existing in a chain of more than one >device, this has (to my knowledge, or experience) not (if ever) >been a probelm with scsi. of the very few that i have heard >about all were replaced as warrentable failures with the >replacements working as expected in chains of 5 or more >devices. I'm still a couple months shy of my first year of being a freebsd user, so I can't offer any long-term observation, but the above item about ide drives larger than 27 GB is the first I've heard of being behind the bleeding edge storage-wise. And that one isn't that bad considering the new ATA driver is in fact already available in 4.0. You have to expect an open-source product to be behind once in a while when new hardware comes out. The developers don't always get a chance to build drivers before the hardware is released, the way they used to in the big companies that sold integrated hardware/software platforms. -Mitch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jan 3 17: 1:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from celery.dragondata.com (celery.dragondata.com [205.253.12.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C425715234 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:01:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@celery.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by celery.dragondata.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA34572; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 19:00:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from toasty) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <200001040100.TAA34572@celery.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) To: mkc@Graphics.Cornell.EDU (Mitch Collinsworth) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 19:00:53 -0600 (CST) Cc: jon@welearn.com.au, andreas@klemm.gtn.com (Andreas Klemm), hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200001032308.SAA12767@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> from "Mitch Collinsworth" at Jan 03, 2000 06:08:25 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >when, if, such ddevices become available for the scsi bus will > >the end user require doing anything special, ummm, that is take > >sepcial measures like your proposing for the 'ide' type bus > >version of these large drive devices ? i've use scsi where ever > >possible, because of the inherent reliability and performance > >(for my meager requirements) issues, such as they are. > > when/if? SCSI is ahead of IDE. I have sitting here on the floor by > my desk a box containing two 50 GB SCSI drives purchased a couple weeks > ago. I have yet to install them but as far as I'm aware from reading > the freebsd lists there are no such problems as that above with large > SCSI disks and freebsd. I'm using an array of several Ultra2 Wide SCSI 47G and 120G drives, that work just dandy. :) Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jan 3 17:18:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0DD15281 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:18:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40331>; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:11:07 +1100 Content-return: prohibited From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <00Jan4.121107est.40331@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:11:05 +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >when, if, such ddevices become available for the scsi bus will >the end user require doing anything special, ummm, that is take >sepcial measures like your proposing for the 'ide' type bus >version of these large drive devices ? SCSI went though it's `disks are too big to use' stage at ~1GB - the original SCSI DA read/write commands only allowed a 21-bit LBA. The next problem will occur at 2^32 blocks (about 2TB), which is still a few years off for bare disks, though it may be a problem for RAID controllers before then. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jan 3 23:43:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4EDB15025 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 23:43:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA84617; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:43:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:42:59 +1100 From: Jonathan Michaels To: Mitch Collinsworth Cc: Andreas Klemm , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) Message-ID: <20000104184258.A84552@phoenix.welearn.com.au> Reply-To: jon@welearn.com.au Mail-Followup-To: Mitch Collinsworth , Andreas Klemm , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200001032308.SAA12767@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <200001032308.SAA12767@benge.graphics.cornell.edu>; from Mitch Collinsworth on Mon, Jan 03, 2000 at 06:08:25PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jan 03, 2000 at 06:08:25PM -0500, Mitch Collinsworth wrote: > > >> >Now I saw in the Magazine, that there is a similar drive available, > >> >with 2 MB cache and another drive which has additionally 7200 U/min. > >> > > >> >Does somebody know the following drives ? > >> >U92720U8, 27.2 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 440.- (~ $220) > >> >U92732U8, 27.3 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 7200 U/min DM 460.- (~ $230) > >> >U93652U8, 36.5 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 585.- (~ $290) > >> >U94098U8, 40.0 GB, 9ms, 2MB cache, 5400 U/min DM 635.- (~ $315) > >> > > >> >Do you think, the large drives (36.5 or 40 GB) will run under > >> >FreeBSD 3.4 and 4.0 current well ??? > >> > >> >From what we've been hearing they will probably be fine, though with > >> 3.4 you will have to either make partitions no larger than 27 GB or > >> else use the new IDE driver from 4.0. > > > >when, if, such ddevices become available for the scsi bus will > >the end user require doing anything special, ummm, that is take > >sepcial measures like your proposing for the 'ide' type bus > >version of these large drive devices ? i've use scsi where ever > >possible, because of the inherent reliability and performance > >(for my meager requirements) issues, such as they are. > > when/if? SCSI is ahead of IDE. I have sitting here on the floor by > my desk a box containing two 50 GB SCSI drives purchased a couple weeks > ago. I have yet to install them but as far as I'm aware from reading > the freebsd lists there are no such problems as that above with large > SCSI disks and freebsd. andreas, jason, mitch and several others who posted email ... thank you all for your help with my some what behind the times information. since i retired from 'active services' i've become a bit 'outof date' as regards whats happening. part of what sourred my post was the memories of 9 gb seagate barracudas being put into www servers in a 'warm' sydney summer afternoon. yes warm afternoon, the barracuda would get so hot that the media would demagnetise, turn it off and let it cool down a few hours and it would be right as rain till the next 40 deg C afternoon. so i was wondering if the new ones had the same sort of problems, it appears that they do not. as fro the cluster count, it looks like after the larger than 1 gb devices those things got sorted out for scsi and our next zone of contention might be the 2 terabyte boundry, as jeremy pointed out. anyway, thank you all for responding and sheading light on my confusion. i'd always thought that scsi was the better way to go, either fro the 'comercial' environment or the ever more demanding 'home' environment. with warm regads and much apreciation. cheers jonathan -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 1:15:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au (mailman.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD793150B9 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 01:15:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (beefcake.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.12]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA25507; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:15:02 +1100 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:15:01 +1100 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-Sender: bde@alphplex.bde.org To: Peter Jeremy Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) In-Reply-To: <00Jan4.121107est.40331@border.alcanet.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Peter Jeremy wrote: > SCSI went though it's `disks are too big to use' stage at ~1GB - the > original SCSI DA read/write commands only allowed a 21-bit LBA. The > next problem will occur at 2^32 blocks (about 2TB), which is still a > few years off for bare disks, though it may be a problem for RAID > controllers before then. There are also some PC BIOS-related problems. There are lots of critical sizes for ATA disks: 0.5284GB (C/H/S = 1024/16/63) (limit for MFM disks and old software) 8.4557GB (C/H/S = 1024/256/63) (1024-cylinder limit for old software) 8.4552GB (C/H/S = 16383/16/63) (the ATA standard was changed in 1997 to require the default C/H/S for large drives to be precisely 16383/16/63 instead of a geometry that actually allows access to the entire drive. In other words, the firmware is required to be specially broken to limit the damage caused by old software. This broke non-broken software like the 1996 FreeBSD wd driver.) 33.8228GB (C/H/S = 65536/16/63) (the FreeBSD wd driver now converts from C/H/S = 16363/16/63 to actual_C/16/63. This is horribly broken when actual_C > 65536. The hardware only supports 16-bit cylinder numbers, and writing to cylinder 65536 actually writes to cylinder 0.) 136.9020GB (C/H/S = 65536/16/255) (limit of CHS addressing) 137.4389GB (LBA mode) (limit of 28-bit LBA addressing) Notes: 1GB = 10^9 bytes. All sizes are rounded down. The sector size is assumed to be 512. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 8:11: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (benge.graphics.cornell.edu [128.84.247.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03991540D for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:10:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (mkc@localhost) by benge.graphics.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15549 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:10:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Message-Id: <200001041610.LAA15549@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: differences between SCSI and EIDE [was: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise)] In-Reply-To: Message from Jonathan Michaels of "Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:42:59 +1100." <20000104184258.A84552@phoenix.welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:10:39 -0500 From: Mitch Collinsworth Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >anyway, thank you all for responding and sheading light on my >confusion. i'd always thought that scsi was the better way to >go, either fro the 'comercial' environment or the ever more >demanding 'home' environment. Well this is actually an interesting question. My salesman says the HDAs are the same in SCSI and EIDE drives, so reliability-wise there should be no difference. So far I've stuck with SCSI but due to the significantly lower cost, management is pushing me to use EIDE where possible in the future. I'd like to know of any significant down-sides to using EIDE other than the number of devices per controller. I read on a seller's web page yesterday that: "EIDE is not well designed for preemptive multitasking. EIDE drives can not do more than one task at a time. In contrast, SCSI devices are handle more jobs and SCSI controllers can tag queue several commands." This page appears to have been written a few years ago, so I'm concerned the information may be dated. But assuming it is still accurate, I'd like to better understand what is being said here. Do SCSI device drivers typically initiate multiple commands from separate processes to the drive without waiting for the previous command to complete? In other words the drive logic has it's own queue management? And EIDE drives require their device drivers to perform all queue management and only initiate a command after the previous one has completed? Is the bottom line result of this that the SCSI drive has a much greater chance of servicing multiple processes during a single media revolution while the EIDE will frequently take multiple revolutions to service the same queue? -Mitch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 8:24:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (Ilsa.StevesCafe.com [206.168.13.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B65F515136 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:24:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA41318; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:22:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fbsd@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com) Message-Id: <200001041622.JAA41318@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 From: Steve Passe To: Bruce Evans Cc: Peter Jeremy , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Jan 2000 20:15:01 +1100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:22:44 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, FYI, we just bought a 40GB maxtor and the asus p2b-ls we placed it in could not probe it properly in the BIOS, in fact it hung completely. Upgrading to BIOS 1011 fixed that, but have yet to try installing any software... Maxtor includes a little piece of paper warning that many BIOS can't handle more than 32GB. -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 8:35:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from liberty.bulinfo.net (liberty.bulinfo.net [212.72.195.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A9B2114D97 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:34:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from krassi@bulinfo.net) Received: (qmail 44513 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2000 16:34:48 -0000 Received: from pythia.bulinfo.net (HELO bulinfo.net) (212.72.195.5) by liberty.bulinfo.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 16:34:48 -0000 Message-ID: <3872218A.5CA43C7A@bulinfo.net> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:36:26 +0200 From: Krassimir Slavchev Organization: Bulinfo Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, greebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: gated/OSPF or xl0 problem? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, We running gated 3.5.10 on FreeBSD-3.2 machine and have a problem. This is from gated log file: OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.1 -> 224.0.0.5: LS UPD: neighbor state low OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.3 -> 224.0.0.5: LS ACK: neighbor state low OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.5 -> 224.0.0.6: LS ACK: neighbor state low OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.7 -> 224.0.0.6: LS ACK: neighbor state low OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.9 -> 224.0.0.6: LS ACK: neighbor state low All routers running gated and have same gated.conf files and work fine except one. On this machine NIC is 3C905 with xl driver (same card work fine under Linux). Because on this machine are running critical applications it is not advisable to stop it to replace the NIC. Any hints will be welcome. Best Regards -- Krassimir Slavchev Bulinfo Ltd. krassi@bulinfo.net (+359-2)963-3652 http://www.bulinfo.net (+359-2)963-3764 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 8:36:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from sandcastle.ny.ans.net (sandcastle.ny.ans.net [147.225.51.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBCE514D9A for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:36:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doherty@ans.net) Received: from localhost (doherty@localhost) by sandcastle.ny.ans.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06027; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:36:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sandcastle.ny.ans.net: doherty owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:36:13 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Doherty X-Sender: doherty@sandcastle.ny.ans.net To: Steve Passe Cc: Bruce Evans , Peter Jeremy , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) In-Reply-To: <200001041622.JAA41318@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If your interested in general storage and/or scsi issues comp.arch.storage FAQ and comp.periphs.scsi FAQ cover them fairly well. from comp.periphs.scsi FAQ: Should I spend the extra money on SCSI or just get IDE? ANSWER From: Gary Field (gfield@zk3.dec.com) ==== For home users this is a difficult question to answer in general. It totally depends on how you use your system, what operating system is installed, and whether you will add more I/O devices in the future. For server systems in a corporate environment the only sensible answer is to go with SCSI peripherals. IDE/EIDE is single threaded by nature. The current command must complete before additional commands can start. With most IDE adapters the processor must be involved in reading/writing the data from/to memory. Another drawback is that only two drives can be attached. In a single drive single-tasking system IDE will probably be slightly faster and is definitely less expensive. When you start talking about multi-tasking operating systems (like Win95, WinNT, Unix, OS/2 and Netware) SCSI is now a big advantage. As disk drives get bigger, backup devices are becoming even more important. In my opinion floppy tapes just aren't satisfactory. They're too slow, too unreliable, non-portable(media exchange wise not physically), and have low storage capacities. SCSI tape drives are more expensive, but have none of these problems. SCSI devices share the bus bandwidth efficiently by allowing one device to transfer data while another is seeking or rewinding its media. Early SCSI implimentations had some compatibility problems but these days SCSI is simpler to install than EIDE. Each user needs to make this choice individually, but if you don't consider all the issues, you can find yourself needing to re-vamp all your I/O to add a device later on. Before you decide to go with IDE, ask yourself if you will ever want to add a CDROM, CD-R, scanner, or tape drive or need more than two hard disk drives. and in a little more detail: Here's a discussion that shows some of the advantages of SCSI in more detail: from: Greg Smith (GREGS@lss-chq.mhs.compuserve.com) Under DOS (and DOS/win3.1), there is very little useful work the host can do while waiting for a disk operation to complete. So handing off some work from a 66 MHz 486 to, say, an 8 MHz Z80 (on the controller) does result in a performance loss. Under EVERY other OS worth discussing (Unix, Netware, NT, OS/2, Win95 etc) the processor can go off and do something else while the access is in progress, so the work done by the other CPU can result in a performance increase. In such systems, due to virtual memory, a 64K byte 'contiguous' read requested by a process may be spread to 16 separate physical pages. A good SCSI controller, given a single request, can perform this 'scatter/gather' operation autonomously. ATA requires significant interrupt service overhead from the host to handle this. Another big issue: ATA does not allow more than one I/O request to be outstanding on a single cable, even to different drives. SCSI allows multiple I/O requests to be outstanding, and they may be completed out of order. For instance, process 'A' needs to read a block. The request is sent to the drive, the disk head starts to move, and process 'A' blocks waiting for it. Then, process 'B' is allowed to run; it aslo reads a block from the disk. Process B's block may be sitting in a RAM cache on the SCSI controller, or on the drive itself. Or the block may be closer to the head than process A's block, or on a different drive on the same cable. SCSI allows process B's request to be completed ahead of process A's, which means that process B can be running sooner, so that the most expensive chip - the system CPU - tends to spend less time twiddling its thumbs. Under ATA, the process B request cannot even be sent to the drive until the process A request is complete. These SCSI capabilities are very valuable in a true multi-tasking environment, especialy important in a busy file server, and useless under DOS, which cannot take advantage of them. I tend to hear from people, 'Well, I never use multitasking' because they never actively run two programs at once - all but one are 'just sitting there'. Consider what happens though, when you minimize a window which uncovers parts of four other application windows. Each of those applications is sent a message telling it to update part of its window; under win95, they will all run concurrently to perform the update. If they need to access disk (usually because of virtual memory) the smoothness of the update can depend a lot on the disk system's ability to respond to multiple independent read requests and finish them all as quickly as possible; SCSI is better at this. So, yes, ATA is faster under DOS; but SCSI provides advantages which are inaccessible to DOS. They will benefit Win95 however. The cost of intelligent, fast SCSI controllers and drives should decrease as people discover these advantages and start buying them. I should add that many of SCSI's advantages are NOT available with some of the simpler SCSI controllers which were targeted only to the DOS market or part of cheap CDROM add-on kits. Furthermore, SCSI allows far greater flexibility of interconnect. I concede that for the mass market, which likes to buy pre-configured machines, this is but a small advantage. Jim Doherty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 9:27:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B44A41515F for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:27:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09690; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:25:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:27:15 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Mitch Collinsworth Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: differences between SCSI and EIDE [was: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise)] In-Reply-To: <200001041610.LAA15549@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Mitch Collinsworth wrote: > > >anyway, thank you all for responding and sheading light on my > >confusion. i'd always thought that scsi was the better way to > >go, either fro the 'comercial' environment or the ever more > >demanding 'home' environment. > > Well this is actually an interesting question. My salesman says the > HDAs are the same in SCSI and EIDE drives, so reliability-wise there > should be no difference. Yes, but unless we have stuff that turns on the bad block sparing, or otherwise does defect management, from a managability point of view there's a massive difference. > like to better understand what is being said here. Do SCSI device > drivers typically initiate multiple commands from separate processes to > the drive without waiting for the previous command to complete? In other Absolutely. The limitation here is probably the filesystem and load mix you're using- under heavy multiuser load I've seen all 256 tags used up. > words the drive logic has it's own queue management? And EIDE drives > require their device drivers to perform all queue management and only > initiate a command after the previous one has completed? > > Is the bottom line result of this that the SCSI drive has a much greater > chance of servicing multiple processes during a single media revolution > while the EIDE will frequently take multiple revolutions to service the > same queue? On the other hand, the newer bigger drives are getting able to basically consume most available bus bandwidth. If the numbers I've seen recently for drives being able to do ~24MB/s off the platter are indicative of things to come, then another reason for using SCSI (shared interleaved usage of an I/O bus) is going away because the limit is moving from the primary PCI bus to the seconday I/O bus, and if you can fit 4 ~20MB/s or better drives into a system (consuming most of the usable PCI bus bandwidth while you're at it) at a fraction of the cost for an Ultra2 LVD bus (which maxes out at 80MB/s), then indeed why bother with SCSI? This scenario changes slightly with Fibre Channel because the command processing time overhead that you can't get away from in parallel SCSI goes away as well as the tag limit so you can run a higher command load per spindle with Fibre Channel, but FC is definitely very expensive and fragile (from a programming point of view). It'll be interesting to see what Ultra3 brings to the party in all of this. At any rate, as long a most systems are single 33Mhz PCI bus systems, I'm rather annoyed to find that EIDE has snuck in and gotten good enough to be more than just your dopey local root disk. -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 9:48:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (benge.graphics.cornell.edu [128.84.247.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E0B15219 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:48:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (mkc@localhost) by benge.graphics.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16162; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:48:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Message-Id: <200001041748.MAA16162@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> To: Jim Doherty Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise) In-Reply-To: Message from Jim Doherty of "Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:36:13 EST." Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 12:48:10 -0500 From: Mitch Collinsworth Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >If your interested in general storage and/or scsi issues >comp.arch.storage FAQ and comp.periphs.scsi FAQ cover >them fairly well. > >from comp.periphs.scsi FAQ: > >Should I spend the extra money on SCSI or just get IDE? >ANSWER From: Gary Field (gfield@zk3.dec.com) Jim, Thanks for posting this. It's a great resource for answering that "why SCSI?" question from budget-minded managers. -Mitch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 10: 9:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from zmamail02.zma.compaq.com (zmamail02.zma.compaq.com [161.114.64.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F3515236 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:09:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michael.waite@compaq.com) Received: by zmamail02.zma.compaq.com (Postfix, from userid 12345) id 8686A232; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:09:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from exctay-gh02.tay.cpqcorp.net (exctay-gh02.tay.cpqcorp.net [16.103.129.52]) by zmamail02.zma.compaq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA6716D for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:09:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by exctay-gh02.tay.cpqcorp.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:09:12 -0500 Message-ID: <212CC57E84B8D111AD780000F84AA04906963D6A@mroexc2.tay.dec.com> From: "Waite, Michael" To: "'freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org'" Subject: Alpha XP1000a available Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:09:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have just finished putting the latest Alpha 4.0 CURRENT up on the Internet for developers to use. The system that I have it running on is a brand new EV6.7 XP1000 running at 667MHZ with two gigs of ram. You can get your free shell account at http://www.testdrive.compaq.com This is not intended as an additional mail client. We have disabled most out-going connections for obvious reasons but you can ftp and telnet onto the system. I also have a DPW500au running a previous version of 4.0 CURRENT and a Proliant 5500 dual XEON 450MHz. -----Mike Michael Waite Global Partnering Solutions, Marlboro Center Compaq Computer Corporation TEL: (508)467-2289 EMAIL: michael.waite@compaq.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 10:29:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from sandcastle.ny.ans.net (sandcastle.ny.ans.net [147.225.51.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF3E14E27 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:29:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doherty@ans.net) Received: from localhost (doherty@localhost) by sandcastle.ny.ans.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06300; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:29:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sandcastle.ny.ans.net: doherty owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:29:07 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Doherty X-Sender: doherty@sandcastle.ny.ans.net To: Matthew Jacob Cc: Mitch Collinsworth , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: differences between SCSI and EIDE [was: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise)] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Matthew Jacob wrote: > > On the other hand, the newer bigger drives are getting able to basically > consume most available bus bandwidth. If the numbers I've seen recently > for drives being able to do ~24MB/s off the platter are indicative of There is a big difference between raw bandwidth and actual usage patterns. Accessing a lot of small files drives a lot of overhead and you are lucky to drive more than a couple hundred KB. I once copied a large news spool off of a 9 gig drive and had the copy operation take over 8 hours on an AIX system. By unmounting the filesystem and performing a copy of the logical volume it took under an hour. The filesystem overhead in opening/closing/seeking files has a big impact on being able to drive i/o. For everything but writing/reading very large files the SCSI bus is not going to be the limit. My guess is that the overhead in the standard i/o libraries might even be able to get in the way, but I have not measured it. Jim Doherty > things to come, then another reason for using SCSI (shared interleaved > usage of an I/O bus) is going away because the limit is moving from the > primary PCI bus to the seconday I/O bus, and if you can fit 4 ~20MB/s or > better drives into a system (consuming most of the usable PCI bus > bandwidth while you're at it) at a fraction of the cost for an Ultra2 LVD > bus (which maxes out at 80MB/s), then indeed why bother with SCSI? > > -matt > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 10:37:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC5E15265 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:37:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09977; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:34:57 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:37:06 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Jim Doherty Cc: Mitch Collinsworth , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: differences between SCSI and EIDE [was: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise)] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > > > On the other hand, the newer bigger drives are getting able to basically > > consume most available bus bandwidth. If the numbers I've seen recently > > for drives being able to do ~24MB/s off the platter are indicative of > > There is a big difference between raw bandwidth and actual usage > patterns. Accessing a lot of small files drives a lot of overhead > and you are lucky to drive more than a couple hundred KB. I once > copied a large news spool off of a 9 gig drive and had the copy > operation take over 8 hours on an AIX system. By unmounting the > filesystem and performing a copy of the logical volume it took > under an hour. The filesystem overhead in opening/closing/seeking > files has a big impact on being able to drive i/o. For everything > but writing/reading very large files the SCSI bus is not going to be > the limit. My guess is that the overhead in the standard i/o > libraries might even be able to get in the way, but I have not > measured it. Yes, but the head actuator mechanisms are the same for EIDE and SCSI, so seeking times are the same. The only other issue might be how much onboard buffering EIDE has compared to SCSI drives. A lot of the speed of operations you mention above are solved, btw, with both softupdates (for making directory operations B_ASYNC) and clustering. The usage patterns for multiple threads will be, of course, much different. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 14: 0: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-ham-1.netsurf.de (smtp-ham-1.netsurf.de [194.195.64.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 529F214EDF for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:59:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ohoyer@fbwi.fh-wilhelmshaven.de) Received: from mail-ham-1.netsurf.de ([192.168.10.65]) by smtp-ham-1.netsurf.de (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with ESMTP id FNTZJ301.P41 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:54:39 +0100 Received: from fbwi.fh-wilhelmshaven.de ([195.179.176.46]) by mail-ham-1.netsurf.de (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with ESMTP id FNTZR800.764 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:59:32 +0100 Message-ID: <38725F0C.74C899BB@fbwi.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 21:58:52 +0100 From: Olaf Hoyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0322q (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: differences between SCSI and EIDE [was: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise)] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Jacob schrieb: > > On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Mitch Collinsworth wrote: > > > > > >anyway, thank you all for responding and sheading light on my > > >confusion. i'd always thought that scsi was the better way to > > >go, either fro the 'comercial' environment or the ever more > > >demanding 'home' environment. > > > > Well this is actually an interesting question. My salesman says the > > HDAs are the same in SCSI and EIDE drives, so reliability-wise there > > should be no difference. > > > words the drive logic has it's own queue management? And EIDE drives > > require their device drivers to perform all queue management and only > > initiate a command after the previous one has completed? > > > > Is the bottom line result of this that the SCSI drive has a much greater > > chance of servicing multiple processes during a single media revolution > > while the EIDE will frequently take multiple revolutions to service the > > same queue? Hi! Well, in corresponding HDDs, the mechanical parts are the same, only equipped with a different electronic controller. I remember the old Quantum Fireball series, that were clearly designed as a mass-market HDD. the SCSI interface was also a very cheap design, it was one of the slowest SCSI HDDs I've ever had. I suppose they only did it to have some product in the lower end of the portfolio. Anyway, it was much cheaper than the IBM or seagate drives targeted mainly at the server market. Nowadays you have the problem, that fews HDDs will share the same mechanical parts as of SCSI and IDE version, because most SCSI Hdds are designed for "heavy duty", therefore they are much more expensive in manufacturing of the interior. Ok, the Quantum Fireball plus KA is one of the few IDE Hdds that has server mechanisms inside, but I do not remember any cheap mass market HDDs that have some mechanical parts from the (far more expensive) server drives from the same company. (If someone could prove me wrong, I'd be happy to hear about the manufacturer ;-) ) Yes, drives like the barracuda ATA or so will of course share the same interior than the SCSI ones, but they are in a different pricing league... Anyway, the quality of the controller with its size of cache and the caching algorithms will definitively decide about the real performance. regards Olaf Hoyer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 17:28: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7DE914D29 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:27:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40333>; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:20:26 +1100 Content-return: prohibited From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: differences between SCSI and EIDE [was: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise)] In-reply-to: <200001041610.LAA15549@benge.graphics.cornell.edu>; from mkc@Graphics.Cornell.EDU on Wed, Jan 05, 2000 at 03:06:49AM +1100 To: Mitch Collinsworth Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <00Jan5.122026est.40333@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200001041610.LAA15549@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:20:26 +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2000-Jan-05 03:06:49 +1100, Mitch Collinsworth wrote: > My salesman says the >HDAs are the same in SCSI and EIDE drives, so reliability-wise there >should be no difference. I would also assume that to be the case. A common HDA minimises the development effort - only the controller PBA needs to be specially designed (and in the case of SCSI, there are likey to be a number of different controllers for the different SCSI interfaces). > I'd >like to know of any significant down-sides to using EIDE other than the >number of devices per controller. By definition, the EIDE bus is electrically more fragile than a SCSI bus. The SCSI specs have always required that a SCSI bus be properly terminated, use controlled-impedance cables and placed limits on the lengths of stubs. By default, SCSI uses single-ended logic levels (roughly TTL, but I'm not sure that the voltage levels are exactly TTL), but a differential version is also defined - which increases the bus robustness at high speeds. (People might not have compiled with the SCSI specs in the past, but they are forced to when they crank us the speeds - and the necessary cables and terminators are readily available). An EIDE "bus" is a random piece of ribbon cable with TTL logic levels, no termination and (from memory) insufficient ground wires. This was not a problem at low speeds, but as the speeds get higher, the cable looks more like an unterminated transmission line and the reflections eat into the noise immunity. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 17:37:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from xena.cs.waikato.ac.nz (xena.cs.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.241.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D6D14D50; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:37:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joerg@lucy.cs.waikato.ac.nz) Received: from lucy.cs.waikato.ac.nz (joerg@lucy.cs.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.241.12]) by xena.cs.waikato.ac.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25429; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:37:13 +1300 (NZDT) Received: (from joerg@localhost) by lucy.cs.waikato.ac.nz (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA04649; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:37:10 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:37:10 +1300 From: Joerg Micheel To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mitch Collinsworth , Mike Smith , Brandon DeYoung , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, joerg@cs.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: 36 GB IDE Hard Drives Message-ID: <20000105143710.I2049@cs.waikato.ac.nz> References: <199912250416.XAA78976@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> <19991226102238.G1316@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <19991226102238.G1316@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sun, Dec 26, 1999 at 10:22:39AM +1030 Organization: SCMS, The University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand Project: WAND - Waikato Applied Network Dynamics, DAG Operating-System: ... drained by Solaris 7 SPARC Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Dec 26, 1999 at 10:22:39AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 24 December 1999 at 23:16:54 -0500, Mitch Collinsworth wrote: > > > >>> Are hard drives larger than 32 GB supported by Free BSD. I've had both = > >>> the 3.3 and 3.4 releases fail during the make New FS portion of the = > >>> install, when installing on a Maxtor 36 GB drive. > >> > >> There shouldn't be any issues with large drives, no. Since you don't > >> provide any details to qualify "fail", it's hard to guess where your > >> problems might lie. > > > > There's been discussion of this recently, I think on -questions. > > Those involved seemed to agree there is a newfs barrier at around > > 27 to 27.5 GB. Smaller works fine, larger fails. Based on that you > > should be able to partition your 36 GB and make it usable now. IIRC > > there is a new driver in the works that's supposed to solve the > > problem. > > Correct. That's a thing I forgot to mention in my last message: we've > tried the new ata driver with large disks and had no problems. That > doesn't mean there are none, though: until we know what causes the > problems, we can't be sure that they're gone. ata is standard in 4.0. FIW, I'm running a Seagate 50GB SCSI drive since about a month in a 3.3-RELEASE system without problems. Dec 10 13:50:17 negara /kernel: da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 Dec 10 13:50:17 negara /kernel: da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device Dec 10 13:50:17 negara /kernel: da0: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queue ing Enabled Dec 10 13:50:17 negara /kernel: da0: 47702MB (97693755 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 6081C) Joerg -- Joerg B. Micheel Email: Waikato Applied Network Dynamics Phone: +64 7 8384794 The University of Waikato, CompScience Fax: +64 7 8384155 Private Bag 3105 Pager: +64 868 38222 Hamilton, New Zealand Plan: TINE and the DAG's To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jan 4 18: 7:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6BBC151E9; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:07:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA57048; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:36:55 +1030 (CST) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:36:54 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Joerg Micheel Cc: Mitch Collinsworth , Mike Smith , Brandon DeYoung , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 36 GB IDE Hard Drives Message-ID: <20000105123654.F30038@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199912250416.XAA78976@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> <19991226102238.G1316@freebie.lemis.com> <20000105143710.I2049@cs.waikato.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <20000105143710.I2049@cs.waikato.ac.nz> WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Wednesday, 5 January 2000 at 14:37:10 +1300, Joerg Micheel wrote: > On Sun, Dec 26, 1999 at 10:22:39AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Friday, 24 December 1999 at 23:16:54 -0500, Mitch Collinsworth wrote: >>> >>>>> Are hard drives larger than 32 GB supported by Free BSD. I've had both = >>>>> the 3.3 and 3.4 releases fail during the make New FS portion of the = >>>>> install, when installing on a Maxtor 36 GB drive. >>>> >>>> There shouldn't be any issues with large drives, no. Since you don't >>>> provide any details to qualify "fail", it's hard to guess where your >>>> problems might lie. >>> >>> There's been discussion of this recently, I think on -questions. >>> Those involved seemed to agree there is a newfs barrier at around >>> 27 to 27.5 GB. Smaller works fine, larger fails. Based on that you >>> should be able to partition your 36 GB and make it usable now. IIRC >>> there is a new driver in the works that's supposed to solve the >>> problem. >> >> Correct. That's a thing I forgot to mention in my last message: we've >> tried the new ata driver with large disks and had no problems. That >> doesn't mean there are none, though: until we know what causes the >> problems, we can't be sure that they're gone. ata is standard in 4.0. > > FIW, I'm running a Seagate 50GB SCSI drive since about a month in a > 3.3-RELEASE system without problems. > > Dec 10 13:50:17 negara /kernel: da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 > Dec 10 13:50:17 negara /kernel: da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device > Dec 10 13:50:17 negara /kernel: da0: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled > Dec 10 13:50:17 negara /kernel: da0: 47702MB (97693755 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 6081C) Right, the problems have only occurred on IDE drives. That's why we suspect the driver. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jan 5 5:19:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de [194.233.237.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE7CE15385 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 05:19:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cracauer@gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (8.9.3/8.7.3) id OAA78766; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:19:15 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:19:15 +0100 From: Martin Cracauer To: Peter Jeremy Cc: Mitch Collinsworth , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: differences between SCSI and EIDE [was: wanna buy an EIDE harddisk ... 5400 or 7200 for home use (noise)] Message-ID: <20000105141915.A78488@cons.org> References: <200001041610.LAA15549@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> <00Jan5.122026est.40333@border.alcanet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <00Jan5.122026est.40333@border.alcanet.com.au>; from Peter Jeremy on Wed, Jan 05, 2000 at 12:20:26PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In <00Jan5.122026est.40333@border.alcanet.com.au>, Peter Jeremy wrote: > > An EIDE "bus" is a random piece of ribbon cable with TTL logic levels, > no termination and (from memory) insufficient ground wires. This was > not a problem at low speeds, but as the speeds get higher, the cable > looks more like an unterminated transmission line and the reflections > eat into the noise immunity. This is one of the greatest concerns to me regading IDE: On bad cables or drives, it falls back to lower speeds. This is not only a speed change, the drive is run in an older IDE mode. That's bad, because you loose the other fancy new features as well, including error handling. While we're talking about error recovery: After all those years of getting it right in SCSI/ahc, how much time will to keep to bring ata up to the same level? How many people step on ata as hard as people did on CAM/ahc? What about controllers? Isn't PIIX4 by far the most polished and tested controller in ATA? Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany http://www.bsdhh.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jan 5 8:59:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mail-smtp.socket.net (mail-smtp.socket.net [216.106.1.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF0E1540E; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:59:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vaevictus@socket.net) Received: from socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.1.7]) by mail-smtp.socket.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA13374; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:34:57 -0600 Received: from nathanm.office.socket.net ([216.106.0.22]) by socket.net ; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 10:34:06 -0600 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:59:05 -0600 (CST) From: n8 X-Sender: vaevictus@nathanm.office.socket.net To: Krassimir Slavchev Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, greebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: gated/OSPF or xl0 problem? In-Reply-To: <3872218A.5CA43C7A@bulinfo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org And you've replaced your cabling? I've no clue about gated's issue. But the first rule of specific network problems is to verify the cable. :) The fact that it says "state low" makes me think bad cable. but that's not even $.02 worth. :) Vae On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Krassimir Slavchev wrote: > Hi all, > We running gated 3.5.10 on FreeBSD-3.2 machine and have a problem. > This is from gated log file: > > OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.1 -> 224.0.0.5: LS UPD: neighbor > state low > OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.3 -> 224.0.0.5: LS ACK: neighbor > state low > OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.5 -> 224.0.0.6: LS ACK: neighbor > state low > OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.7 -> 224.0.0.6: LS ACK: neighbor > state low > OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.9 -> 224.0.0.6: LS ACK: neighbor > state low > > All routers running gated and have same gated.conf files and work fine > except one. > On this machine NIC is 3C905 with xl driver (same card work fine under > Linux). > > Because on this machine are running critical applications it is not > advisable > to stop it to replace the NIC. > > Any hints will be welcome. > > Best Regards > > > -- > Krassimir Slavchev Bulinfo Ltd. > krassi@bulinfo.net (+359-2)963-3652 > http://www.bulinfo.net (+359-2)963-3764 > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jan 5 11:36:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from azazel.zer0.org (azazel.zer0.org [209.133.53.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98551509F; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:36:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@azazel.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by azazel.zer0.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA68658; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:33:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:33:59 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Greg Lehey Cc: Joerg Micheel , Mitch Collinsworth , Mike Smith , Brandon DeYoung , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 36 GB IDE Hard Drives Message-ID: <20000105113359.C68135@azazel.zer0.org> References: <199912250416.XAA78976@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> <19991226102238.G1316@freebie.lemis.com> <20000105143710.I2049@cs.waikato.ac.nz> <20000105123654.F30038@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000105123654.F30038@freebie.lemis.com>; from grog@lemis.com on Wed, Jan 05, 2000 at 12:36:54PM +1030 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jan 05, 2000 at 12:36:54PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Sun, Dec 26, 1999 at 10:22:39AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> On Friday, 24 December 1999 at 23:16:54 -0500, Mitch Collinsworth wrote: >>>>> Someone else, sometime, wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Are hard drives larger than 32 GB supported by Free BSD. I've had both = >>>>>> the 3.3 and 3.4 releases fail during the make New FS portion of the = >>>>>> install, when installing on a Maxtor 36 GB drive. >>>> >>>> There's been discussion of this recently, I think on -questions. >>>> Those involved seemed to agree there is a newfs barrier at around >>>> 27 to 27.5 GB. Smaller works fine, larger fails. Based on that you >>>> should be able to partition your 36 GB and make it usable now. IIRC >>>> there is a new driver in the works that's supposed to solve the >>>> problem. >>> >>> Correct. That's a thing I forgot to mention in my last message: we've >>> tried the new ata driver with large disks and had no problems. That > > Right, the problems have only occurred on IDE drives. That's why we > suspect the driver. I newfs'ed a 37.5 GB IDE drive two days ago with no problems. I haven't filled it past 27GB yet, but if the problem manifests at newfs time, then I did not experience it. Could it be related to the way the disk is addressed (LBA)? edge root ~ $ uname -a FreeBSD edge.foobar.com 3.3-STABLE FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE #7: Sat Nov 27 16:04:34 PST 1999 root@:/usr/src/sys/compile/EDGE i386 edge root ~ $ dmesg | grep wd3 wdc1: unit 1 (wd3): , LBA, DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd3: 35772MB (73261440 sectors), 4560 cyls, 255 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S edge root ~ $ df | grep wd3 /dev/wd3s1e 35503742 15241732 17421711 47% /mp3 Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter The measure of a man is the way mailto:gsutter@pobox.com he bears up under misfortune. http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ --Plutarch PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 6 13: 1:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706C015751 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:01:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paschal@primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25095 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:01:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from radsl-busy.tus.primenet.com(207.138.88.126), claiming to be "crazyhorse" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAymaO4W; Thu Jan 6 14:01:04 2000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000106140058.009613c0@pop.primenet.com> X-Sender: paschal@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:00:58 +0000 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org From: paschal@primenet.com Subject: DFE-910 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, Egghead is selling the D-Link DFE-910 switched hub network in a box for $98.99. That's a good price, but do those cards (DFE540TX) work with FreeBSD? The archives said nothing about them. Thanks Richard To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 6 13:12:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (benge.graphics.cornell.edu [128.84.247.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F8B14D94 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:12:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (mkc@localhost) by benge.graphics.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28505; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:12:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Message-Id: <200001062112.QAA28505@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> To: paschal@primenet.com Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DFE-910 In-Reply-To: Message from paschal@primenet.com of "Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:00:58 GMT." <3.0.5.32.20000106140058.009613c0@pop.primenet.com> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:12:22 -0500 From: Mitch Collinsworth Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Egghead is selling the D-Link DFE-910 switched hub network in a box for >$98.99. What in the world is a "switched hub" ?? Switches switch (i.e. bridge) and hubs repeat. -Mitch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 6 13:25:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (benge.graphics.cornell.edu [128.84.247.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18A1615718 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:25:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Received: from benge.graphics.cornell.edu (mkc@localhost) by benge.graphics.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28590; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:25:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mkc@benge.graphics.cornell.edu) Message-Id: <200001062125.QAA28590@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> To: paschal@primenet.com Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DFE-910 In-Reply-To: Message from Mitch Collinsworth of "Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:12:22 EST." <200001062112.QAA28505@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:25:16 -0500 From: Mitch Collinsworth Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>Egghead is selling the D-Link DFE-910 switched hub network in a box for >>$98.99. > >What in the world is a "switched hub" ?? Switches switch (i.e. bridge) >and hubs repeat. Ok, I looked it up on D-Link's web site. It is a 5-port 10/100 switch. It is not a hub. Price is nice, but I'd be wary after our experiences with D-Link hardware last year. We bought 3 DFE-904 4-port hubs and 2 of them are already dead. YMMV. -Mitch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 6 13:38:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F226151D5 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:38:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paschal@primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06269; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from radsl-busy.tus.primenet.com(207.138.88.126), claiming to be "crazyhorse" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAzIaqcm; Thu Jan 6 14:37:45 2000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000106143737.009682e0@pop.primenet.com> X-Sender: paschal@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:37:37 +0000 To: Mitch Collinsworth From: Richard Paschal Subject: Re: DFE-910 Cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <200001062125.QAA28590@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> References: <200001062112.QAA28505@benge.graphics.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:25 PM 1/6/00 -0500, you wrote: > >>>Egghead is selling the D-Link DFE-910 switched hub network in a box for >>>$98.99. >> >>What in the world is a "switched hub" ?? Switches switch (i.e. bridge) >>and hubs repeat. > >Ok, I looked it up on D-Link's web site. It is a 5-port 10/100 switch. >It is not a hub. Price is nice, but I'd be wary after our experiences >with D-Link hardware last year. We bought 3 DFE-904 4-port hubs and 2 >of them are already dead. YMMV. Thanks for your reply. I find it under hubs everywhere I look. Are their DFE-540TX nics compatible with the Dec driver in FreeBSD? Richard To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 6 23:53:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from liberty.bulinfo.net (liberty.bulinfo.net [212.72.195.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C8C9614DD9 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:53:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from krassi@bulinfo.net) Received: (qmail 49426 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 07:53:14 -0000 Received: from pythia.bulinfo.net (HELO bulinfo.net) (212.72.195.5) by liberty.bulinfo.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 07:53:14 -0000 Message-ID: <38759BEE.A20F9C06@bulinfo.net> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 09:55:26 +0200 From: Krassimir Slavchev Organization: Bulinfo Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: n8 , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: gated/OSPF or xl0 problem? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, At the moment up time of this machine is 100 days without any problems, except gated. n8 wrote: > And you've replaced your cabling? > > I've no clue about gated's issue. But the first rule of specific network > problems is to verify the cable. :) > > The fact that it says "state low" makes me think bad cable. > > but that's not even $.02 worth. :) > > Vae > > On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Krassimir Slavchev wrote: > > > Hi all, > > We running gated 3.5.10 on FreeBSD-3.2 machine and have a problem. > > This is from gated log file: > > > > OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.1 -> 224.0.0.5: LS UPD: neighbor > > state low > > OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.3 -> 224.0.0.5: LS ACK: neighbor > > state low > > OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.5 -> 224.0.0.6: LS ACK: neighbor > > state low > > OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.7 -> 224.0.0.6: LS ACK: neighbor > > state low > > OSPF RECV Area 0.0.0.0 111.222.333.9 -> 224.0.0.6: LS ACK: neighbor > > state low > > > > All routers running gated and have same gated.conf files and work fine > > except one. > > On this machine NIC is 3C905 with xl driver (same card work fine under > > Linux). > > > > Because on this machine are running critical applications it is not > > advisable > > to stop it to replace the NIC. > > > > Any hints will be welcome. > > > > Best Regards > > > > > > -- > > Krassimir Slavchev Bulinfo Ltd. > > krassi@bulinfo.net (+359-2)963-3652 > > http://www.bulinfo.net (+359-2)963-3764 > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message -- Krassimir Slavchev Bulinfo Ltd. krassi@bulinfo.net (+359-2)963-3652 http://www.bulinfo.net (+359-2)963-3764 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jan 7 17:36: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mail4.nycap.rr.com (mail4-1.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.33.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A456014E11 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:36:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dqureshi@cyvox.com) Received: from hq-1 ([24.25.145.87]) by mail4.nycap.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59787U250000L250000S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:38:10 -0500 From: "CNC Support" To: Subject: Netfinity 3500 support Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:36:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000701bf5978$b8971580$57911918@hq-1.nycap.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sensitivity: Company-Confidential Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does FreeBSD 3.4 support IBM Netfinity 3500 M10 12Y? Here are the details: Pentium® III 500/100MHz with 512KB L2 ECC Cache 1 128MB 100MHz ECC SDRAM Integrated Dual Ultra Wide SCSI Controller Integrated 10/100 Ethernet Controller Netfinity Manager Software Included 1.44MB Floppy Disk Drive 40X-17X IDE CD-ROM Drive 2 9.1GB, 7200RPM Wide Ultra SCSI Drive Included 3-year limited on-site warranty 3 90-day IBM Start Up Support Update Connector MoST Connect Remote Connect SystemXtra® 4 330W power supply included 3 Years Parts & Labor, Next Business Day Service Response 5 IBM 10/20GB NS Internal SCSI Tape Drive 01K1319 My main concern is integrated SCSI controller, integrated Ethernet card, SCSI hard drive, SCSI tape drive. Also compatibility of other parts is necessary. In #freebsd I have asked people about SCSI products, they said anything SCSI is compatible. However I want to be sure these particular components are supported, especially if they're integrated. I tried all IBM resources to check compatibility with FreeBSD. Sincerely, Danish Qureshi CNC Customer Service ============================================ ESTABLISH YOUR E-BUSINESS TODAY! Web Hosting/Design and E-Commerce Solutions Visit us at http://www.cyvox.com Or E-Mail us at info@cyvox.com ============================================ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jan 7 22: 6: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mail4.nycap.rr.com (mail4-0.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F24E214F0D for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 22:06:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dqureshi@cyvox.com) Received: from hq-1 ([24.25.145.87]) by mail4.nycap.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59787U250000L250000S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 01:08:11 -0500 From: "Danish A.. Qureshi" To: Subject: IBM Netfinit question Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 01:06:04 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf599e$71f74ac0$57911918@hq-1.nycap.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: High Sensitivity: Company-Confidential Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does FreeBSD 3.4 support IBM Netfinity 3500 M10 12Y? Here are the details: Pentium® III 500/100MHz with 512KB L2 ECC Cache 1 128MB 100MHz ECC SDRAM Integrated Dual Ultra Wide SCSI Controller Integrated 10/100 Ethernet Controller Netfinity Manager Software Included 1.44MB Floppy Disk Drive 40X-17X IDE CD-ROM Drive 2 9.1GB, 7200RPM Wide Ultra SCSI Drive Included 3-year limited on-site warranty 3 90-day IBM Start Up Support Update Connector MoST Connect Remote Connect SystemXtra® 4 330W power supply included 3 Years Parts & Labor, Next Business Day Service Response 5 IBM 10/20GB NS Internal SCSI Tape Drive 01K1319 My main concern is integrated SCSI controller, integrated Ethernet card, SCSI hard drive, SCSI tape drive. Also compatibility of other parts is necessary. In #freebsd I have asked people about SCSI products, they said anything SCSI is compatible. However I want to be sure these particular components are supported, especially if they're integrated. I tried all IBM resources to check compatibility with FreeBSD. ============================================ ESTABLISH YOUR E-BUSINESS TODAY! Web Hosting/Design and E-Commerce Solutions Visit us at http://www.cyvox.com Or E-Mail us at info@cyvox.com ============================================ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jan 8 9: 9:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from cloudbase.sixforty.co.uk (cloudbase.sixforty.co.uk [194.207.180.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEFBB14F0D for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 09:09:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from l.farr@epcdirect.co.uk) Received: from news (host212-140-17-246.btinternet.com [212.140.17.246]) by cloudbase.sixforty.co.uk (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA31138 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 17:09:34 GMT Reply-To: From: "Lawrence Farr" To: Subject: Booting from a Mylex DAC-960 Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 17:09:31 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I posted this in current, but got no reply. Can anyone help? TIA I downloaded Jan 2nd Current, made the floppies, and tried to boot a box with a DAC-960PL installed. The system hung as soon as it started to read from floppy. Rebooted, turned off the BIOS on the Mylex, system booted OK. Installed directly to the Mylex, and it all came to a halt with "Tried to write beyond end of drive" errors, which I am assuming is a geometry issue. Any ideas, short of booting from a separate disk? PS - The BIOS on the Mylex is Current. Lawrence Farr EPC Direct T:01179666123 F:01179666111 M:07970780901 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message