From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jun 19 18:41: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.hcvlny.cv.net (mx1.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.112.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3783037B93A for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:40:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steinyv@skyweb.net) Received: from s1.optonline.net (s1.optonline.net [167.206.112.6]) by mx1.hcvlny.cv.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16834 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from downstairs (d133-103.jcsnnj.optonline.net [24.189.133.103]) by s1.optonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05187 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:40:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000619213235.009b96e0@> X-Sender: steinyv/pluto.skyweb.net@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:36:18 -0400 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org From: steinyv Subject: Tandem?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey I just purchased some used IBM scsi drives, but in the bios it states that it is a "Tandem 4265-1". I called IBM that they said that I shouldn't use them. Anyone have any experience with these drives. Thanks all. _________________________________________ Steiny's Studio Pachyderm Productions http://steiny.hypermart.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jun 19 21:39:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from ux.accesscom.net (ux.accesscom.net [204.181.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 717D837BAA4 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:39:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlistbsd@icorp.net) Received: from p501.accesscom.net (icorp.net [206.160.4.1]) by ux(smtpd 2.1.3) with SMTP id smtp001694 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 00 04:38:57 GMT (envelope-from ) Message-ID: <394EF549.1D630C66@icorp.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:38:34 -0500 From: James X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: compaq proliant smartraid Content-Length: 2813 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Snapshot doesn't work. I booted and installed from 4.0-20000619-STABLE and still NO GO. It went through the entire installation and then reported that no kernel was found. Can ANYONE verify that they have managed to get the Compaq SmartRAID controller running under FreeBSD 4.0? I know that earlier versions were hacked (i.e. 3.4 with wd0 controllers) to work, but I think the ida driver bundled with 4.0 does not support the SmartRaid controllers - it's a shame because it seems to be a minor error - the array is recognized; the filesystem is created successfully but something is messed up during setting up of the kernel - this is driving me crazy - any info anyone can provide would be *greatly* appreciated - and it save someone from getting hit by a flying Compaq (proprietary piece of sh*t) raid controller. Troy Settle wrote: > James, > > I've been flipping through messages pretty quickly the last few days, but I > could swear that someone responded to this same question not too long ago, > suggesting that you (or whomever) use a 4.0 snapshot, rather than the > release. > > Try it, it just might do the trick for you. > > g'luck, > > -Troy > > ** -----Original Message----- > ** From: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG > ** [mailto:owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of James > ** Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 12:46 PM > ** To: void@humankind.com > ** Subject: Compaq SmartRAID compatibility issues? > ** > ** > ** > ** I'm still having problems getting this Proliant 3000R with the Compaq > ** 2DH controller to work properly - I've seen some historical messages > ** indicating people have gotten 3.3 to work incorporating a non-bundled > ** IDA driver; I've also heard that this driver is now integrated in with > ** FreeBSD in the later versions. I'm still running into the following > ** issues: > ** > ** * Booting/installing FreeBSD <4.0 does not recognize the drive array > ** * FBSD 4.0 does recognize the array but either: > ** a) crashes with a "makedev returns non-zero" during install > ** b) won't reboot - saying kernel not found > ** c) crashes during post-install config with all forks causing core > ** dumps > ** > ** I can pull out the raid array and reconfigure the disks on Compaq's > ** on-board scsi and it installs and runs perfectly, so I know it's an > ** issue with the raid card. > ** > ** I'm trying to install the os straight to the raid5 array - I really do > ** not want to have to dedicate a non-raid drive just to work around a bug > ** in the OS. Does anyone have any ideas? > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > ** with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > ** > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 0:20:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17DCE37BC2C for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:20:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA33709 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:19:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Hardware in space? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I've got some ideas that I could use some advise on. Right now, I'm working on a Science, Research & Technology (SR&T) proposal that I'm going to be submitting to NASA with a group of folks here from Montana State. We're going to propose to launch a solar telescope on what amounts to a missile body and look at the sun for 5 minutes or so. (The total launch is about 10 minutes long, but we're only high enough in the atmosphere for 5 minutes or so.) To get an idea of the sort of images we can make doing this, here's a sample URL: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap000621.html Anyway, in the past these payloads have always included simple (but painful) electronics packages that were basically home-brewed by the engineering teams that put them together. I'm thinking that, what with the capabilities now available in a simple laptop motherboard I should be able to drive the whole payload with a laptop. Question is, what should I use? (My tentative OS plan, and my tenuous link to -hardware, is FreeBSD. :-) So, food for thought: the hardware has to be vacuum compatible, so no electrolytic caps and probably no disk drives. (Unless I package the drives in some sort of pressure vessel.) The box will have to be able to talk to three CCD cameras, which I suspect will be talking over an RS-232 link. It will also have to talk to the rocket electronics, and a GPS card would be a nice addition. (I know people who have launched their payloads from White Sands Missile Range, only never to see them again. :-) We will download some small part of the imagery collected during the flight, the housekeepking telemetry (temperatures and such) and the position as indicated by the GPS. I can easily enough make myself a scaled-down version of FreeBSD that has none of the extra dreck you'd expect with a full-blown distribution; PicoBSD has already solved many of those problems. I'm a little concerned about saving the data -- I won't have enough telemetry during the flight to download all the data (all told, around 500 MBytes). So that will need to be stored somehow; some sort of non-volatile memory would be nice. Once it hits the ground, I have this idea that I'd plug my laptop via ethernet cable into the butt-end of the payload (while sitting in the sand, somewhere in the middle of WSMR) and download everything to disk. It's clearly a bit of a hostile environment, but it seems like this should all be solved stuff. I don't have to have flight qualified electronics on a sounding rocket, but the stuff should be able to function without benefit of air flowing around it -- special heat sinks would probably be in order. Also curious what non-volatile memory is in this context. Any suggestions? Vendors? Experts? Cheers, Brian -- Brian Handy Mail: handy@physics.montana.edu Department of Physics Phone: (406) 994-6317 Montana State University Fax: (406) 994-4452 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 4:55:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from wicket.ci.net.ua (noc-hole-gw.ci.net.ua [212.86.98.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74EA837B557; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 04:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acid@cn.ua) Received: from localhost (acid@localhost) by wicket.ci.net.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27139; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:55:10 +0300 (EEST) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:55:09 +0300 (EEST) From: Michael Vasilenko X-Sender: acid@wicket.ci.net.ua To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: DVB drivers port Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello ! I'm interested in support for DVB cards, such as SkyStar1 in FreeBSD. Maybe someone already has ported it to *-BSD ? Or where I can find guide about porting hardware drivers from Linux to BSD ? Any help would be great. Please, cc: me, I'm off the list -- Michael Vasilenko To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 10: 1:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from athena.lightningone.net (athena.lightningone.net [12.34.104.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A343337BED6 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:01:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by athena.lightningone.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA50146; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:18:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) X-Authentication-Warning: athena.lightningone.net: john owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:18:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Essenz Consulting X-Sender: john@athena.lightningone.net To: Brian Handy Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brain, For a hard drive, you can look at solid state FLASH disks. They make FLASH IDE "Hard Drives" which connect to a motherboards IDE channel. Drive is not a drive but FLASH memory. However, I still am not sure if that would be okay up in space. Also, I imagine temperatures will be very low, like 50 below ZERO. That may also cause a problem. Doesnt sound like something you will be able to do with of the shelf equipment. -jve On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Brian Handy wrote: > Hi all, > > I've got some ideas that I could use some advise on. Right now, I'm > working on a Science, Research & Technology (SR&T) proposal that I'm going > to be submitting to NASA with a group of folks here from Montana > State. We're going to propose to launch a solar telescope on what amounts > to a missile body and look at the sun for 5 minutes or so. (The total > launch is about 10 minutes long, but we're only high enough in the > atmosphere for 5 minutes or so.) > > To get an idea of the sort of images we can make doing this, here's a > sample URL: > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap000621.html > > Anyway, in the past these payloads have always included simple (but > painful) electronics packages that were basically home-brewed by the > engineering teams that put them together. I'm thinking that, what with > the capabilities now available in a simple laptop motherboard I should be > able to drive the whole payload with a laptop. Question is, what should > I use? (My tentative OS plan, and my tenuous link to -hardware, is > FreeBSD. :-) > > So, food for thought: the hardware has to be vacuum compatible, so no > electrolytic caps and probably no disk drives. (Unless I package the > drives in some sort of pressure vessel.) The box will have to be able to > talk to three CCD cameras, which I suspect will be talking over an RS-232 > link. It will also have to talk to the rocket electronics, and a GPS card > would be a nice addition. (I know people who have launched their payloads > from White Sands Missile Range, only never to see them again. :-) We will > download some small part of the imagery collected during the flight, the > housekeepking telemetry (temperatures and such) and the position as > indicated by the GPS. > > I can easily enough make myself a scaled-down version of FreeBSD that has > none of the extra dreck you'd expect with a full-blown distribution; > PicoBSD has already solved many of those problems. I'm a little concerned > about saving the data -- I won't have enough telemetry during the flight > to download all the data (all told, around 500 MBytes). So that will need > to be stored somehow; some sort of non-volatile memory would be nice. > Once it hits the ground, I have this idea that I'd plug my laptop via > ethernet cable into the butt-end of the payload (while sitting in the > sand, somewhere in the middle of WSMR) and download everything to disk. > > It's clearly a bit of a hostile environment, but it seems like this should > all be solved stuff. I don't have to have flight qualified electronics on > a sounding rocket, but the stuff should be able to function without > benefit of air flowing around it -- special heat sinks would probably be > in order. Also curious what non-volatile memory is in this context. > > Any suggestions? Vendors? Experts? > > Cheers, > > Brian > -- > Brian Handy Mail: handy@physics.montana.edu > Department of Physics Phone: (406) 994-6317 > Montana State University Fax: (406) 994-4452 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 10: 2:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from wormhole.bluestar.net (wormhole.bluestar.net [208.53.1.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F0137C189 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:02:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drew@planetwe.com) Received: from planetwe.com ([64.182.69.146]) by wormhole.bluestar.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e5LH2k721275 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:02:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3950F5D5.E81742BF@planetwe.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:05:25 -0500 From: Drew Sanford X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: ATM drivers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I've been led to understand that DSL modems are ATM cards inside. I was wondering if FreeBSD had drivers for the SpeedStream 3060 internal PCI DSL modem. Thanks for any help. -- Drew Sanford Systems Administrator Planetwe.com Email: drew@planetwe.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 10: 6:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104D937BF16 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:06:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA61403; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:05:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Brian Handy , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:18:18 EDT." Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:05:46 +0200 Message-ID: <61401.961607146@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> I'm a little concerned >> about saving the data -- I won't have enough telemetry during the flight >> to download all the data (all told, around 500 MBytes). So that will need >> to be stored somehow; some sort of non-volatile memory would be nice. Look at the "DiskOnChip" devices from M-systems, they're a Flash based, solid-state, supported by FreeBSD and very rugged. Many "embedded-market" motherboards have sockets for DOC devices already on them. www.m-sys.com -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD coreteam member | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 10:10:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from chronozon.dyndns.org (cr466046-a.etob1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.191.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF5837BED6 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:10:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stef@Chronozon.dyndns.org) Received: by chronozon.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 99) id AC4131F147; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:08:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stef telford" To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Version of FreeBSD and Maestro-2e X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.00 X-IPAddress: 204.148.73.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20000621180859.AC4131F147@chronozon.dyndns.org> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:08:59 -0500 (CDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello everyone, Firstly let me apologise if this isnt the right list for this email, but i took sometime to do a little research and think it is, so please bear with me here ;) I am a recent convert from that other *nix brand, the one that seems to deal with penguins. I have been using that on and off for 5 years along with Solaris and (god help my soul) HP-UX. i would like to think that I am somewhat capable in *nix and compiling kernels and what have you. I recently installed FreeBSD4 (the stable release iso image). It went fine, not a problem with anything. Pcmcia was even detected and managed to setup ed1 and routing to my gateway and everything was peachy. The only problem is, when I go into X, there is no sound. de nada. nothing. not a beep. Now, I looked at the dmesg output, and sure enough it DOES find the maestro-2e on the laptop, but it doesnt auto-configure any /dev/sound or /dev/pcm. So the question is, is this actively supported (eg, can it work rather than jst be detected) and what 'version' would I need to install to get it working, -Stable or -Release or even -Current ? I really dont want to go Opensound, although I could, as Opensound drivers only work with 3.4 and -Stable (v4) seems to have better Pcmcia. Thanks for the time and sorry if this is one of those annoying FAQS. If i am doing something totally and horrible stupid, feel free to smack me on the head (but please be careful, i am trying to grow horns there ;) deepest regards, Stefs To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 10:29:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from ns.uninet.ee (ns.uninet.ee [194.204.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DDA137B665 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:29:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taavi@uninet.ee) Received: by ns.uninet.ee (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 68DBF25901; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:29:11 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ns.uninet.ee (Postfix) with SMTP id 62E4814A61; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:29:11 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:29:11 +0200 (EET) From: Taavi Talvik To: Drew Sanford Cc: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ATM drivers In-Reply-To: <3950F5D5.E81742BF@planetwe.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Drew Sanford wrote: Hello, Yes, DSL modems are ATM cards inside. Currently I have (almost) working implementation for speastream 3010 (same as the ATM part in 3060). However, 3060 has addtional ADSL DMT hardware (Alcatel MTC-20136), which provides physical layer connectivity. It requies additional firmware and separate additional initializaton. Unfortunately, I have not enough details (and firmware for mtc-20136), so SpeeStream 3060 DOES NOT work. I have had e-mail exchange with Efficent, but still not enough to really contiue with 3060 (or 3020)A driver. best regards, taavi > I've been led to understand that DSL modems are ATM cards inside. I was > wondering if FreeBSD had drivers for the SpeedStream 3060 internal PCI > DSL modem. Thanks for any help. ----------------------------------------------------------- Taavi Talvik | Internet: taavi@uninet.ee Unineti Andmeside AS | phone: +372 6405150 Ravala pst. 10 | fax: +372 6405151 Tallinn 10143, Estonia | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 12: 4:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C528437C042; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:04:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA46614; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:04:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA82448; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200006211902.NAA82448@harmony.village.org> To: Eaglez Subject: Re: Unknown Devices Cc: John Hengstler , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jun 2000 21:19:51 PDT." <20000605041951.1843.qmail@web115.yahoomail.com> References: <20000605041951.1843.qmail@web115.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:02:57 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <20000605041951.1843.qmail@web115.yahoomail.com> Eaglez writes: : Well, i'm not sure about 5.0's new funky support (i : mean, if it supports the SB Live, who knows), but in : the past, PCI modems have never been supported, : because they all tend to be win modems (only MS : windows drivers available). I'd advise possibly an : external modem. (Hey, they're probably still cheaper : than USB modems, although i'd go with that if it IS : somehow cheaper.) PCI modems have been supported since just after 4.0 was released. They *MUST* be controller based. There are only two or three of these in the marketplace. > pci0: (vendor=0x11c1, dev=0x0441) at 0x11c1 is actiontec. 0x0441 is not the one known good device. 0x0480 is that one. 0x0441 is, I think, the winmodem version, which sadly we cannot support at this time. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 12: 5:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8147837C08E; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:05:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA46626; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:05:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA82467; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:03:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200006211903.NAA82467@harmony.village.org> To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: Unknown Devices Cc: Eaglez , John Hengstler , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jun 2000 08:23:53 PDT." <200006051523.IAA17373@mass.cdrom.com> References: <200006051523.IAA17373@mass.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:03:54 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <200006051523.IAA17373@mass.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes: : Watch out - some USB modems are also WinModems. usb tty and modems aren't supported, as far as I know. How can you tell the usb modems that are win modems? And can y ou get docs on them? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 13:55: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (mail.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55C5037B5E8 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:54:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@pc0640.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <115211>; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 06:54:58 +1000 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:21:08 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: DigiBoard PCI/Xem support To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <00Jun22.065458est.115211@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have a system which includes a DigiBoard PCI/Xem board. Unfortunately, neither the dgb or dgm drivers appear to recognize it - judging from the comments, both drivers are for ISA rather than PCI cards. Does anyone know how difficult it would be be to support the DigiBoard PCI/Xem? Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 14:55:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.25.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 209BF37B5F7 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:55:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ohoyer@fbwi.fh-wilhelmshaven.de) Received: from fettesau.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (stuwopc5.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.209.5]) by mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA14883; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:55:40 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <4.1.20000621233928.026e05c0@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> X-Sender: ohoyer@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:52:48 +0200 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: Olaf Hoyer Subject: Re: Hardware in space? Cc: Brian Handy In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 13:18 21.06.00 -0400, Essenz Consulting wrote: > >Brain, > >For a hard drive, you can look at solid state FLASH disks. They make FLASH >IDE "Hard Drives" which connect to a motherboards IDE channel. Drive is >not a drive but FLASH memory. However, I still am not sure if that would >be okay up in space. Also, I imagine temperatures will be very low, like >50 below ZERO. That may also cause a problem. > >Doesnt sound like something you will be able to do with of the shelf >equipment. > Hi! Well, there come several ideas to mind: 1) Avoid moving parts where possible. Flash disks and similar technology (like in digital cameras) are certainly appropriate. 2) Which computing power will be needed? If the power of a 486 will suffice, there should be no need for special cooling, since a run of, say 15 minutes won't overheat the chip. 3) Is it really necessary to have air in? (Except from cooling purposes or movement maker for HDDs) 4) For thermal insulation, is it possible to use something like styrofoam around the computing parts? (Or sometimes for housebuilding purposes there is similar foam for insulation, that you can "spray" from a can) 5) Real problem: Acceleration. If I got you right, we talk about some launch phase of some minutes, then a ~5 minute picture shooting, and then a landing and perhaps some notification via GPS where to pick up the parts. So the shocks and G-Forces during launch and landing have to be considered. Well, some notebook parts (especially those notebooks for industrial usage, or sales reps on tour) were designed to handle high stress. Simply remove the 3,5" and CD-ROM, and replace the HDD with a solid state Flash disk. Then (ok, I don't know about space) use some styrofoam parts or some foam mentioned above, and make sure its quite sealed except for some cables that need to go outside the computer unit (network, camera, battery charger). Regards Olaf Hoyer -------- Olaf Hoyer www.nightfire.de mailto:Olaf.Hoyer@nightfire.de FreeBSD- Turning PC's into workstations ICQ:22838075 Liebe und Hass sind nicht blind, aber geblendet vom Feuer, dass sie selber mit sich tragen. (Nietzsche) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 17: 2:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78D537C0D3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:02:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 134uSK-000HRT-0C; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:02:52 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 134sjx-0006RB-00; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:12:57 +0100 Content-Length: 1270 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000621233928.026e05c0@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:12:57 +0100 (BST) From: Duncan Barclay To: Olaf Hoyer Subject: Re: Hardware in space? Cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, > > 2) Which computing power will be needed? > If the power of a 486 will suffice, there should be no need for special > cooling, since a run of, say 15 minutes won't overheat the chip. > > 3) Is it really necessary to have air in? > (Except from cooling purposes or movement maker for HDDs) > > 4) For thermal insulation, is it possible to use something like styrofoam > around the computing parts? (Or sometimes for housebuilding purposes there > is similar foam for insulation, that you can "spray" from a can) > > 5) Real problem: Acceleration. If I got you right, we talk about some > launch phase of some minutes, then a ~5 minute picture shooting, and then a > landing and perhaps some notification via GPS where to pick up the parts. Heat could the the main problem. Depending on how high you are going up, the assumption that an air cooled device will be cooled fails...There is no air! Devices that are designed to be cooled by convection may over heat. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 17: 7:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from athena.lightningone.net (athena.lightningone.net [12.34.104.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909FB37C0DC for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:07:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by athena.lightningone.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA52555; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:23:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) X-Authentication-Warning: athena.lightningone.net: john owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:23:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Essenz Consulting X-Sender: john@athena.lightningone.net To: Duncan Barclay Cc: Olaf Hoyer , Brian Handy , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Even if there is no air, it still will be cooled, considers On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > Hi all, > > > > > 2) Which computing power will be needed? > > If the power of a 486 will suffice, there should be no need for special > > cooling, since a run of, say 15 minutes won't overheat the chip. > > > > 3) Is it really necessary to have air in? > > (Except from cooling purposes or movement maker for HDDs) > > > > 4) For thermal insulation, is it possible to use something like styrofoam > > around the computing parts? (Or sometimes for housebuilding purposes there > > is similar foam for insulation, that you can "spray" from a can) > > > > 5) Real problem: Acceleration. If I got you right, we talk about some > > launch phase of some minutes, then a ~5 minute picture shooting, and then a > > landing and perhaps some notification via GPS where to pick up the parts. > > Heat could the the main problem. Depending on how high you are going up, > the assumption that an air cooled device will be cooled fails...There is no > air! Devices that are designed to be cooled by convection may over heat. > > Duncan > > --- > ________________________________________________________________________ > Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, > dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 17:17:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp (isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp [133.74.8.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9698F37B722 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp) Received: from localhost by isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp (8.8.7/1.1.20.3/28Jan00-0547AM) id JAA0000010005; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:17:18 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:17:18 +0900 (JST) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000621233928.026e05c0@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wow! What a great dose of information! Thanks everyone! I've got a bunch of information, and a handful of people to respond to... so stand by, those of you who know who you are. Anyway, a couple of clarifications since I stirred up so much interest: - This is only the proposal stage of the instrument. The way NASA works is every year they make "Announcements of Opportunity", which is a thingy that invites us to write proposals to do work. There are lots of various categories of this, from data analysis of Solar Flares to theoretical consideration of pulsar evolution to proposing new instruments for the Next Generation Space Telescope. If we win, we'd start working on this sometime next year, probably, with a launch slated for about 3 years after that. - The sounding rocket environment isn't quite as bad as it sounds. The computer will be grounded to the chassis, but this doesn't mean it's going to get real cold. We've only got 5 minutes above the atmosphere, and I think it'd take a fair bit longer than that to get cold enough to matter. There's a group at Stanford that's taken this to an extreme: http://aa.stanford.edu/~ssdl/ These guys are trying to get to where they can turn a satellite into a senior thesis project for a student. (I don't think they've gotten it down to a year yet, though.) Basically they're working on the level of re-inventing Sputnik. Amazing stuff, amazingly simple, teaches people a bunch. Way below the level of sophistication I have to aim for, unfortunately. I'm told some of their electronics parts come from Radio Shack! :-) -- While getting too cold probably isn't an issue, COOLING certainly is. As a few people have alluded to, cooling in space becomes an issue because there's no air. This will be a problem much earlier, because we'll evacuate the payload several hours before launch. If there's a delay, the package could wind up sitting on the launch rail for a few days under vacuum. I've worried about blowing the top off the CPU from the heat. I imagine it'll probably have to be heat-sunk to the chassis in some manner. Someone mentioned using a 486; that's not such a bad idea. Mostly I'm just grabbing data from the RS-232 ports and stuffing it to disk, so I'll probably wind up doing some experimentation to see just what I'll need. Thanks, Brian [Reporting in from Japan] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 17:22:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (ha2.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BCC437B8FD for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:22:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from RaymundoVega@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.5.252.61]) by lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000622002216.KHOY6703.lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com>; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:22:16 -0700 Message-ID: <39515C37.A848E074@home.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:22:15 -0700 From: "Raymundo M. Vega" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Essenz Consulting Cc: Duncan Barclay , Olaf Hoyer , Brian Handy , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware in space? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Essenz Consulting wrote: > > Even if there is no air, it still will be cooled, considers > how?? it is a termodynamics problem, where are you going to transfer the heat, there may not be no mass to receive it? or i should say enough mass. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 20:17:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from virtualtrends.com (virtualtrends.com [192.41.12.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DDE737B882 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:17:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from humanhunter@connectstar.net) Received: from skyline (05-053.024.popsite.net [216.126.161.53]) by virtualtrends.com (8.8.5) id VAA15213; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:17:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: virtualtrends.com: Host 05-053.024.popsite.net [216.126.161.53] claimed to be skyline Message-ID: <003001bfdc11$736c5ee0$3700a8c0@skyline> From: "Blake" To: References: Subject: Re: Hardware in space? Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:16:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFDBD6.C600F8E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFDBD6.C600F8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable try getting a faster CPU and underclocking it.. say a P200 running at = 66mghz or something.. get a 100 bus speed mghtz cpu an run it at 66 mghz = or 33... that will make cooling MUCH easier=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Brian Handy" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: Hardware in space? > Wow! What a great dose of information! Thanks everyone! >=20 > I've got a bunch of information, and a handful of people to respond = to... > so stand by, those of you who know who you are. Anyway, a couple of > clarifications since I stirred up so much interest: >=20 > - This is only the proposal stage of the instrument. The way NASA = works > is every year they make "Announcements of Opportunity", which is a = thingy > that invites us to write proposals to do work. There are lots of = various > categories of this, from data analysis of Solar Flares to theoretical > consideration of pulsar evolution to proposing new instruments for the > Next Generation Space Telescope. If we win, we'd start working on = this > sometime next year, probably, with a launch slated for about 3 years = after > that. =20 >=20 > - The sounding rocket environment isn't quite as bad as it sounds. = The > computer will be grounded to the chassis, but this doesn't mean it's = going > to get real cold. We've only got 5 minutes above the atmosphere, and = I > think it'd take a fair bit longer than that to get cold enough to = matter. > There's a group at Stanford that's taken this to an extreme: >=20 > http://aa.stanford.edu/~ssdl/ >=20 > These guys are trying to get to where they can turn a satellite into a > senior thesis project for a student. (I don't think they've gotten it > down to a year yet, though.) Basically they're working on the level = of > re-inventing Sputnik. Amazing stuff, amazingly simple, teaches people = a > bunch. Way below the level of sophistication I have to aim for, > unfortunately. I'm told some of their electronics parts come from = Radio > Shack! :-) >=20 > -- While getting too cold probably isn't an issue, COOLING certainly = is. > As a few people have alluded to, cooling in space becomes an issue = because > there's no air. This will be a problem much earlier, because we'll > evacuate the payload several hours before launch. If there's a delay, = the > package could wind up sitting on the launch rail for a few days under > vacuum. I've worried about blowing the top off the CPU from the heat. = I > imagine it'll probably have to be heat-sunk to the chassis in some = manner. > Someone mentioned using a 486; that's not such a bad idea. Mostly I'm > just grabbing data from the RS-232 ports and stuffing it to disk, so = I'll > probably wind up doing some experimentation to see just what I'll = need. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Brian > [Reporting in from Japan] >=20 >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFDBD6.C600F8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
try getting a faster CPU and = underclocking it.. say=20 a P200 running at 66mghz or something.. get a 100 bus speed mghtz cpu an = run it=20 at 66 mghz  or 33... that will make cooling MUCH easier =
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Handy" <handy@isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp>
To: <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 5:17 = PM
Subject: Re: Hardware in = space?

> Wow!  What a great = dose of=20 information!  Thanks everyone!
>
> I've got a bunch of = information, and a handful of people to respond to...
> so stand = by, those=20 of you who know who you are.  Anyway, a couple of
> = clarifications=20 since I stirred up so much interest:
>
> - This is only the = proposal stage of the instrument.  The way NASA works
> is = every year=20 they make "Announcements of Opportunity", which is a thingy
> that = invites=20 us to write proposals to do work.  There are lots of = various
>=20 categories of this, from data analysis of Solar Flares to = theoretical
>=20 consideration of pulsar evolution to proposing new instruments for = the
>=20 Next Generation Space Telescope.  If we win, we'd start working on=20 this
> sometime next year, probably, with a launch slated for = about 3=20 years after
> that. 
>
> - The sounding rocket=20 environment isn't quite as bad as it sounds.  The
> computer = will be=20 grounded to the chassis, but this doesn't mean it's going
> to get = real=20 cold.  We've only got 5 minutes above the atmosphere, and I
> = think=20 it'd take a fair bit longer than that to get cold enough to = matter.
>=20 There's a group at Stanford that's taken this to an extreme:
> =
>=20 http://aa.stanford.edu/~ssdl/
>=20
> These guys are trying to get to where they can turn a satellite = into=20 a
> senior thesis project for a student.  (I don't think = they've=20 gotten it
> down to a year yet, though.)  Basically they're = working=20 on the level of
> re-inventing Sputnik.  Amazing stuff, = amazingly=20 simple, teaches people a
> bunch.  Way below the level of=20 sophistication I have to aim for,
> unfortunately.  I'm told = some of=20 their electronics parts come from Radio
> Shack!  :-)
> =
> -- While getting too cold probably isn't an issue, COOLING = certainly=20 is.
> As a few people have alluded to, cooling in space becomes an = issue=20 because
> there's no air.  This will be a problem much = earlier,=20 because we'll
> evacuate the payload several hours before = launch.  If=20 there's a delay, the
> package could wind up sitting on the launch = rail=20 for a few days under
> vacuum. I've worried about blowing the top = off the=20 CPU from the heat.  I
> imagine it'll probably have to be = heat-sunk=20 to the chassis in some manner.
> Someone mentioned using a 486; = that's not=20 such a bad idea.  Mostly I'm
> just grabbing data from the = RS-232=20 ports and stuffing it to disk, so I'll
> probably wind up doing = some=20 experimentation to see just what I'll need.
>
>
>=20 Thanks,
>
> Brian
> [Reporting in from Japan]
> =
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with=20 "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message
>=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFDBD6.C600F8E0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 20:21:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from virtualtrends.com (virtualtrends.com [192.41.12.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3042B37B674 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:21:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from humanhunter@connectstar.net) Received: from skyline (05-053.024.popsite.net [216.126.161.53]) by virtualtrends.com (8.8.5) id VAA16139; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:21:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: virtualtrends.com: Host 05-053.024.popsite.net [216.126.161.53] claimed to be skyline Message-ID: <004001bfdc12$0e9aa0c0$3700a8c0@skyline> From: "Blake" To: References: Subject: Re: Hardware in space? Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:21:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Another thought would be using a microcontroller, it could at least help with relaying info from the RS232 port.. look at the rabbit at http://www.zworld.com . My company is looking at a similar situation except we are sending a radio and the microcontroller (hopefully) to mars... The microcontroller will also be handy because cooling shouldn't be a problem at all, and it will run on a very small supply of power To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 21 23:13:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.25.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A46B37B658 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:13:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ohoyer@fbwi.fh-wilhelmshaven.de) Received: from fettesau.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (stuwopc5.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.209.5]) by mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA11260; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:12:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <4.1.20000622075529.00979b80@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> X-Sender: ohoyer@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:08:06 +0200 To: Brian Handy From: Olaf Hoyer Subject: Re: Hardware in space? Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.20000621233928.026e05c0@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -- While getting too cold probably isn't an issue, COOLING certainly is. >As a few people have alluded to, cooling in space becomes an issue because >there's no air. This will be a problem much earlier, because we'll >evacuate the payload several hours before launch. If there's a delay, the >package could wind up sitting on the launch rail for a few days under >vacuum. I've worried about blowing the top off the CPU from the heat. I >imagine it'll probably have to be heat-sunk to the chassis in some manner. >Someone mentioned using a 486; that's not such a bad idea. Mostly I'm >just grabbing data from the RS-232 ports and stuffing it to disk, so I'll >probably wind up doing some experimentation to see just what I'll need. > Hi! Well, the question is: Which parts _do_ need cooling? Most parts of a notebook are designed to run quite cool, also due to lower power consumption. Also a Flash disk also runs quite cool, no need for extra cooling. The only source of heat I can imagine would be the CPU. (At least of the computer used therefore) So using some low-power version like a 486 or an IDT C6/Winchip will help decreasing emitted heat. I ran a Winchip C6 (old one) at 50x2 = 100 MHz in a desktop system without even a heatsink (yes, bare CPU, no heatsink or fan) for some weeks under load, no probs. The Winchip only consumes half of the power than a similar (MHz) Intel Pentium MMX or AMD K6. (At 200 MHz, the IDT eats 10 Watts, Intel/AMD ~20 Watts) In my experience, if the system is intended to run only for some minutes, the CPU even at full pace hasn't enough time to overheat. Even if you need cooling, there's another idea. Basically, you need to transport the heat=energy away from the chip. On earth, you may take air as transport and dissolver. But why no liquid cooling? Simply fix some small tank (about some fluid ounces/millilitres) on top of the CPU, and fill it with water or alcohol. It shall absorb some of the energy emitted by the CPU due to contact. No big need for circulating it to the outer parts of the rocket, as it is only for some limited time. Basically you can calculate the energy needing to be absorbed... Modern CPUs have some known power consumption, so you can calculate the absorbed energy.. Regards Olaf Hoyer -------- Olaf Hoyer www.nightfire.de mailto:Olaf.Hoyer@nightfire.de FreeBSD- Turning PC's into workstations ICQ:22838075 Liebe und Hass sind nicht blind, aber geblendet vom Feuer, dass sie selber mit sich tragen. (Nietzsche) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 0:45:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from jason.argos.org (a1-3b058.neo.rr.com [24.93.181.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18A9937C1B3 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:45:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@argos.org) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by jason.argos.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e5M7iV106564; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 03:44:31 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 03:44:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Nowlin To: Olaf Hoyer Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, Brian Handy Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000621233928.026e05c0@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Well, there come several ideas to mind: > > 1) Avoid moving parts where possible. > Flash disks and similar technology (like in digital cameras) are certainly > appropriate. Not to mention the fact that moving parts, especially hard drives, can cause a gyroscopic effect that can throw the spin/orbit calculations right out the window.... Maybe.... I've had a few tonight.... :) --mike - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Understated/funny man-page sentence of the current time period: From route(4) on FreeBSD-3.4, DESCRIPTION section: "FreeBSD provides some packet routing facilities." ...duh....... Mike Nowlin, N8NVW mike@argos.org http://www.viewsnet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 2:45: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3626B37B7AD for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 02:44:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA14948; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:44:01 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:44:01 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Olaf Hoyer Cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000622075529.00979b80@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Olaf Hoyer wrote: > Hi! > > Well, the question is: > Which parts _do_ need cooling? All that generate more heat than can be radiated away? > Most parts of a notebook are designed to run quite cool, also due to lower > power consumption. Yes - but there is air present that takes heat away. In space there isn't. > Also a Flash disk also runs quite cool, no need for extra cooling. > The only source of heat I can imagine would be the CPU. > (At least of the computer used therefore) > > So using some low-power version like a 486 or an IDT C6/Winchip will help > decreasing emitted heat. > > I ran a Winchip C6 (old one) at 50x2 = 100 MHz in a desktop system without > even a heatsink (yes, bare CPU, no heatsink or fan) for some weeks under > load, no probs. > The Winchip only consumes half of the power than a similar (MHz) Intel > Pentium MMX or AMD K6. > (At 200 MHz, the IDT eats 10 Watts, Intel/AMD ~20 Watts) > 10 watts is still a lot. > In my experience, if the system is intended to run only for some minutes, > the CPU even at full pace hasn't enough time to overheat. > Even if you need cooling, there's another idea. > But if it is absolutely neccessary that it worked and made no errors, this no longer holds. > Basically, you need to transport the heat=energy away from the chip. > On earth, you may take air as transport and dissolver. > But why no liquid cooling? Crazy! Liquid weights a lot - and besides, how do you cool the liquid? > Simply fix some small tank (about some fluid ounces/millilitres) on top of > the CPU, and fill it with water or alcohol. It shall absorb some of the > energy emitted by the CPU due to contact. > No big need for circulating it to the outer parts of the rocket, as it is > only for some limited time. > Basically you can calculate the energy needing to be absorbed... > Modern CPUs have some known power consumption, so you can calculate the > absorbed energy.. > > Regards > Olaf Hoyer > > > -------- > Olaf Hoyer www.nightfire.de mailto:Olaf.Hoyer@nightfire.de > FreeBSD- Turning PC's into workstations ICQ:22838075 > > Liebe und Hass sind nicht blind, aber geblendet vom Feuer, > dass sie selber mit sich tragen. (Nietzsche) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 3: 9: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.25.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 473FC37C230 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 03:08:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ohoyer@fbwi.fh-wilhelmshaven.de) Received: from fettesau.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (stuwopc5.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.209.5]) by mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA04037; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:08:15 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <4.1.20000622120110.00a62a70@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> X-Sender: ohoyer@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:08:16 +0200 To: Narvi From: Olaf Hoyer Subject: Re: Hardware in space? Cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.20000622075529.00979b80@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> Well, the question is: >> Which parts _do_ need cooling? > >All that generate more heat than can be radiated away? Hi! Well, yes, thats obvious. I meant, what parts are that? (list of) > Most parts of a notebook are designed to run quite cool, also due to lower >> power consumption. > >Yes - but there is air present that takes heat away. In space there isn't. > >> Also a Flash disk also runs quite cool, no need for extra cooling. >> The only source of heat I can imagine would be the CPU. >> (At least of the computer used therefore) >> >> So using some low-power version like a 486 or an IDT C6/Winchip will help >> decreasing emitted heat. >> >> I ran a Winchip C6 (old one) at 50x2 = 100 MHz in a desktop system without >> even a heatsink (yes, bare CPU, no heatsink or fan) for some weeks under >> load, no probs. >> The Winchip only consumes half of the power than a similar (MHz) Intel >> Pentium MMX or AMD K6. >> (At 200 MHz, the IDT eats 10 Watts, Intel/AMD ~20 Watts) >> > >10 watts is still a lot. Yes, but this is figured for full system load, so actual operation will be less. >> In my experience, if the system is intended to run only for some minutes, >> the CPU even at full pace hasn't enough time to overheat. >> Even if you need cooling, there's another idea. >> > >But if it is absolutely neccessary that it worked and made no errors, this >no longer holds. Yes, agreed. In cases where ultimate reliability is needed, you cannot play. But seeing that also some homebuilt gear was used, one should give it a try (and test it before launching it) > >> Basically, you need to transport the heat=energy away from the chip. >> On earth, you may take air as transport and dissolver. >> But why no liquid cooling? > >Crazy! Liquid weights a lot - and besides, how do you cool the liquid? Only a small amount of. No cooling for that liquid. We know the wattage the CPU has to get rid of. We know the time the CPU is running. So we can calculate the amount of energy that needs to go into that liquid. The heat capacity (sorry, did not look up the english term for it) of water or other things is well-known. So when we allow the water to get 20 degrees warmer, we know which amount of water(in milliliters) one would need to take all the heat from the CPU, preventing it from going beyond the magical ~60 degrees centigrade. I assume that this phase only goes for about 15 minutes. Regards Olaf Hoyer -------- Olaf Hoyer www.nightfire.de mailto:Olaf.Hoyer@nightfire.de FreeBSD- Turning PC's into workstations ICQ:22838075 Liebe und Hass sind nicht blind, aber geblendet vom Feuer, dass sie selber mit sich tragen. (Nietzsche) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 3:33:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E991537C236; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 03:33:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from n_hibma@qubesoft.com) Received: from calcaphon.demon.co.uk ([193.237.19.5] helo=bluebottle.qubesoft.com) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1354IU-0000Mj-0K; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:33:23 +0000 Received: from henny.webweaving.org (henny.qubesoft.com [192.168.1.5]) by bluebottle.qubesoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA31985; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:34:09 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@qubesoft.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by henny.webweaving.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA36018; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:49:38 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@qubesoft.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:49:38 +0100 (BST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@localhost Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Warner Losh Cc: Mike Smith , Eaglez , John Hengstler , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Unknown Devices In-Reply-To: <200006211903.NAA82467@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > : Watch out - some USB modems are also WinModems. Not WinModems as such (the USB link is too slow to feed the DSP, but they do have proprietary protocols). 3COM modems are safe though. They are class compliant. Nick > > usb tty and modems aren't supported, as far as I know. How can you > tell the usb modems that are win modems? And can y ou get docs on > them? > > Warner > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > -- n_hibma@webweaving.org n_hibma@freebsd.org USB project http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 4:22:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from endplay.inode.org (cpu1532.adsl.bellglobal.com [206.47.27.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED51537C27D for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 04:21:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dej@inode.org) Received: from coup.inode.org (coup.inode.org [172.16.2.203]) by endplay.inode.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA21096 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:21:54 -0400 (EDT) From: David Jones To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Liquid cooled Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:17:05 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00062207215406.00242@coup.inode.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Be careful when liquid-cooling the payload. Remember, the payload will be evacuated. Water boils at just over 0 C in= a vacuum. If you use water cooling, then you'd get water vapor all over th= e place upon evacuation, with possible condensation everywhere. Any cooling liquid would have to be kept in a closed system. How is the payload to be powered up? Does it run in "standby mode" until= and during the launch, only to go into mission mode for those five minutes? = Is there an external signal to indicate mission mode? If not, then the powe= r will be dissipated while the system is on the launch pad, and no amount of liq= uid will help. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 4:30:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from berk.mail.netforce.net (berk.mail.netforce.net [195.58.64.236]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AC237B680 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 04:30:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jholtom@netforce.net) Received: from bagpuss.i.netforce.net (tarbuck.netforce.net [195.58.64.34]) by berk.mail.netforce.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28421 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:35:27 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bagpuss.i.netforce.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01708 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:44:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jholtom@netforce.net) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:44:45 +0100 (BST) From: James Holtom Reply-To: James Holtom To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Compaq iPaq ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone tried 3.x or 4.0 on the Compaq iPaq ? It looks (aesthetically, at any rate) quite a cute bit of kit. And at 315ukp in it's cheapest form it looks interesting, _if_ it works with FreeBSD. Regards, James To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 10:18:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from smtp4-cm.mail.eni.net (smtp4a-cm.mail.eni.net [216.133.226.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D52237B60E for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:18:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bbarr@expi.com) Received: from barney.expi ([216.132.191.7]) by smtp4-cm.mail.eni.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16134 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:18:30 -0700 Message-ID: <002301bfdc6e$a99b3e20$0700000a@barney.expi> From: "Blake Barr" To: Subject: Re: Hardware in space? Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:24:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't know much about peltiers but it seems to me that they are run with electricity and it transfers the heat from on side to the other... I'm not sure what to do with it one it gets the the other side, perhaps something that could hold 15 minutes of heat and still have room for more, something expendable. and like I said before if you UNDERCLOCK a CPU then they will create less heat and use less power so a minscule amount of heat isn't a problem if you put it into something expendable or at least something that isn't part of the computer, say a large heat sink. Who cares if the heat sink is REALLY hot after 15 minutes as long as the CPU is still cool... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 10:53:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from plains.NoDak.edu (plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE3937B586 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:53:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.NoDak.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21937; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:53:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:53:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <200006221753.MAA21937@plains.NoDak.edu> To: drew@planetwe.com, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ATM drivers Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I've been led to understand that DSL modems are ATM cards inside. I was > wondering if FreeBSD had drivers for the SpeedStream 3060 internal PCI > DSL modem. Thanks for any help. the last mention from the ATM mailling list is that the SpeedStream 3060 is NOT supported. Sounds like the ATM section is not the problem, but the DSL microcode is not obtainable. --mark tinguely. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 11:30:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 034BB37B5E7 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:30:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA23236; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:30:34 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:30:33 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Olaf Hoyer Cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000622120110.00a62a70@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Olaf Hoyer wrote: > >> Well, the question is: > >> Which parts _do_ need cooling? > > > >All that generate more heat than can be radiated away? > Hi! > > Well, yes, thats obvious. I meant, what parts are that? (list of) > Processor. Possibly also chipset and DRAM, depending on the parts and speeds. Luckily, the figures should be in datasheets that also tend to be downloadable from the manufacturers in pdf these days.0 > > > >10 watts is still a lot. > Yes, but this is figured for full system load, so actual operation will be > less. > The various 486 clones should produce quite a bit less heat. Also, industrial variant of the processor buys you 10C of ... well, time. Also, it may be possible to have the processor doze - or even halt at times it is not doing something usefull. Yes, I know the halt trick is standard in FreeBSD. > > > >But if it is absolutely neccessary that it worked and made no errors, this > >no longer holds. > Yes, agreed. In cases where ultimate reliability is needed, you cannot > play. But seeing that also some homebuilt gear was used, one should give it > a try (and test it before launching it) > > > > > >> Basically, you need to transport the heat=energy away from the chip. > >> On earth, you may take air as transport and dissolver. > >> But why no liquid cooling? > > > >Crazy! Liquid weights a lot - and besides, how do you cool the liquid? > Only a small amount of. > No cooling for that liquid. > We know the wattage the CPU has to get rid of. We know the time the CPU is > running. No, we don't. Read the part about the assembled and ready for launch but standing-by part. > So we can calculate the amount of energy that needs to go into that liquid. > The heat capacity (sorry, did not look up the english term for it) of water I'd be suprised if they called it differently. Anyways, the energy in {your choise of unit} that goes to rise the temp of a substance by 1 degree. > or other things is well-known. So when we allow the water to get 20 degrees > warmer, we know which amount of water(in milliliters) one would need to > take all the heat from the CPU, preventing it from going beyond the magical > ~60 degrees centigrade. > Yes. It sorta works until they are inside the gravity well, and for one time mission. Of course, the packaging of the liquid may have to be able to not to break upon coming back to earth. A big-big-big heatsink may still be better. > I assume that this phase only goes for about 15 minutes. > > Regards > Olaf Hoyer > -------- > Olaf Hoyer www.nightfire.de mailto:Olaf.Hoyer@nightfire.de > FreeBSD- Turning PC's into workstations ICQ:22838075 > > Liebe und Hass sind nicht blind, aber geblendet vom Feuer, > dass sie selber mit sich tragen. (Nietzsche) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 11:50:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from vali.uas.alaska.edu (vali.uas.alaska.edu [137.229.150.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 53BC337B567 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:50:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from russ.pagenkopf@uas.alaska.edu) Received: from antarctica.jun.alaska.edu [137.229.156.140] (HELO uas.alaska.edu) by vali.uas.alaska.edu (AltaVista Mail V2.0r/2.0r BL25r listener) id 0000_0064_3952_6008_d40e; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:50:48 -0800 Message-ID: <39526009.54D0D8E7@uas.alaska.edu> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:50:49 -0800 From: Russ Pagenkopf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Brian Handy Subject: Re: Hardware in space? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brian Handy wrote: > -- While getting too cold probably isn't an issue, COOLING certainly is. > As a few people have alluded to, cooling in space becomes an issue because > there's no air. This will be a problem much earlier, because we'll > evacuate the payload several hours before launch. If there's a delay, the > package could wind up sitting on the launch rail for a few days under > vacuum. I've worried about blowing the top off the CPU from the heat. Something else you might look at (although it it's Linux based, sorry guys) is the LART project . They're using the StrongARM chip which allows for the processor to essentially shut down while not in use thus producing minimal heat. There are *many* other advantages to using their system in your situation. While the project is a work in progress, they do have working boards and free schematics. rus To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 12:17:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mass.osd.bsdi.com (dhcp183.conference.usenix.org [209.179.127.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 776D637B766; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.osd.bsdi.com) Received: from mass.osd.bsdi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00872; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.osd.bsdi.com) Message-Id: <200006221923.MAA00872@mass.osd.bsdi.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unknown Devices In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:03:54 MDT." <200006211903.NAA82467@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:23:01 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > In message <200006051523.IAA17373@mass.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes: > : Watch out - some USB modems are also WinModems. > > usb tty and modems aren't supported, as far as I know. They're "nearly" there, AFAIR. I sent Nick some code a while back that addressed the last problem I understood he had. > How can you > tell the usb modems that are win modems? And can y ou get docs on > them? You pull them apart and look at the chipset inside. There are a number of chipsets from eg. ST that take an isochronous audio stream. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 12:38:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C63F37BD9E; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA51742; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:38:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA91645; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200006221936.NAA91645@harmony.village.org> To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: Unknown Devices Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:23:01 PDT." <200006221923.MAA00872@mass.osd.bsdi.com> References: <200006221923.MAA00872@mass.osd.bsdi.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:36:39 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <200006221923.MAA00872@mass.osd.bsdi.com> Mike Smith writes: : > In message <200006051523.IAA17373@mass.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes: : > : Watch out - some USB modems are also WinModems. : > : > usb tty and modems aren't supported, as far as I know. : : They're "nearly" there, AFAIR. I sent Nick some code a while back that : addressed the last problem I understood he had. I'll have to ask him about it then. : You pull them apart and look at the chipset inside. There are a number : of chipsets from eg. ST that take an isochronous audio stream. Yuck. Where's that air sickness bag... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 16: 8: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (mail.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 112F637B614 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:08:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <115316>; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:07:47 +1000 Content-return: prohibited Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:07:38 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-reply-to: ; from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee on Thu, Jun 22, 2000 at 11:44:01AM +0200 To: Narvi , handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <00Jun23.090747est.115316@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <4.1.20000622075529.00979b80@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2000-Jun-22 11:44:01 +0200, Narvi wrote: >On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Olaf Hoyer wrote: >> Basically, you need to transport the heat=energy away from the chip. >> On earth, you may take air as transport and dissolver. >> But why no liquid cooling? >Crazy! Liquid weights a lot - and besides, how do you cool the liquid? If the system have to run for an extended period (ie, reach steady state equilibrium) then your only option is radiation. Since the proposed flight has a limited endurance, you could just store the unwanted heat or rely on consumables to dispose of it: - Using specific heat: You use a massive heatsink and rely on the heatsink's specific heat to limit the temperature rise. Aluminium has a specific heat of ~0.95J/g per degree C. 10W for 15mins is 9000J so you'd be looking at ~200g for a 50 degree temperature rise. Good alternatives include lithium (3.3J/g/degree) and water (4.2 J/g/degree), but both have a much lower density (meaning more volume to store the heat) and are more difficult to handle (lithium is highly reactive and water is a liquid under room conditions). - Using latent heat of fusion: ie melting a solid. The advantage is that latent heats of fusion are 1-2 orders of magnitude higher than specific heats (with a commensurate reduction in heatsink mass). The temperature also remains constant (since the heat is being absorbed via a phase transition). Picking an appropriate substance is more difficult but I believe there are a range of eutectic salts intended for thermal storage - you might be able to find a suitable one. Alternatively, Rose's Metal (from memory) might do. - Using latent heat of vaporisation: ie evaporating a solid or liquid. The advantage is about another order of magnitude reduction in mass. The disadvantage is that you'll need some way to vent the vapour, without losing the liquid/solid. Water is probably a reasonable choice if you're venting into a vacuum. In general, I wouldn't recommend Peltier cells because of their poor efficiency (you'll probably triple your power consumption), but could be justified if you find a good phase-change material that is just a few degrees too hot. BTW, there are low power (CMOS) variants of both the 386 and 486 - these will further reduce your power consumption - especially if you reduce the CPU clock speed. As for the problem of extended pre-launch holds, the best solution would seem to be implementing a low power hibernation mode (or even total power off, if this is practical) that is broken by the launch g-forces. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 17: 4:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA2B37B64C for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cmdrpc@att.net) Received: from webmail.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.135.29]) by mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with SMTP id <20000623000431.PYAV9011.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net>; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:04:31 +0000 Received: from [12.68.67.124] by webmail.worldnet.att.net; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:04:30 +0000 From: cmdrpc@att.net To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:04:30 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (May 2 2000) X-Authenticated-Sender: cmdrpc@att.net Message-Id: <20000623000431.PYAV9011.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am curious has anyone used the Iomega Clik disk, PC card, and the USB Clik disk reader with a FreeBSD system? I am interested in any comment on using these products with FreeBSD. Thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 18:40:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from vicosa.dpi.ufv.br (vicosa.dpi.ufv.br [200.17.74.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27FAE37B7DC for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:40:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kernel@tdnet.com.br) Received: from tdnet.com.br (port05.tdnet.com.br [200.236.148.105]) by vicosa.dpi.ufv.br (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12334 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:39:33 -0200 (GRNLNDDT) Message-ID: <395295B5.5F777F6D@tdnet.com.br> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:39:49 +0000 From: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: ultra/ultra w scsi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear gentleman, When i turn on my computer it shows information about my SCSI controller! Part of it is of interest. It's showed up my controller to be adaptec 2940 ultra/ultra W SCSI. Then, i cannot understand why my dmesg output shows my controler to be just a ultra scsi. Can some one explain if it's a ultra or ultra wide controller ? Thanks for your time and cooperation. Dmesg output: etosha# dmesg Copyright (c) 1992-2000 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE #11: Thu Jun 22 22:04:38 GMT 2000 root@etosha:/usr/src/sys/compile/ETOSHA Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz CPU: Pentium II/Pentium II Xeon/Celeron (267.27-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x634 Stepping = 4 Features=0x80f9ff real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) avail memory = 126791680 (123820K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc03bd000. Preloaded userconfig_script "/boot/kernel.conf" at 0xc03bd09c. Preloaded elf module "splash_bmp.ko" at 0xc03bd0ec. Preloaded elf module "vesa.ko" at 0xc03bd190. Preloaded splash_image_data "/boot/splash.bmp" at 0xc03bd22c. VESA: v2.0, 4096k memory, flags:0x0, mode table:0xc00c6d9d (c0006d9d) VESA: Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. Pentium Pro MTRR support enabled apm0: on motherboard apm: found APM BIOS v1.2, connected at v1.2 npx0: on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface pcib0: on motherboard pci0: on pcib0 pcib1: at device 1.0 on pci0 pci1: on pcib1 pci1: at 0.0 irq 11 isab0: at device 7.0 on pci0 isa0: on isab0 atapci0: port 0xf000-0xf00f at device 7.1 on pci0 ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0 ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 pci0: at 7.2 irq 12 chip1: port 0x5000-0x500f at device 7.3 on pci0 ahc0: port 0xe400-0xe4ff mem 0xe9000000-0xe9000fff irq 11 at device 11.0 on pci0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs isa0: too many dependant configs (8) isa0: unexpected small tag 14 atkbdc0: at port 0x60,0x64 on isa0 atkbd0: irq 1 on atkbdc0 vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa0000-0xbffff on isa0 sc0: on isa0 sc0: VGA <1 virtual consoles, flags=0x200> sio1 at port 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 flags 0x10 on isa0 sio1: type 16550A sio2 at port 0x3e8-0x3ef irq 4 on isa0 sio2: type 16550A ppc0: at port 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa0 ppc0: Generic chipset (NIBBLE-only) in COMPATIBLE mode lpt0: on ppbus0 lpt0: Interrupt-driven port ed0 at port 0x300-0x31f iomem 0xd8000 irq 10 on isa0 ed0: address 00:00:21:6c:8f:e0, type NE2000 (16 bit) sbc0: at port 0x220-0x22f,0x330-0x331,0x388-0x38b irq 5 drq 1,5 on isa0 sbc0: setting card to irq 5, drq 1, 5 pcm0: on sbc0 unknown0: at port 0x200-0x207 on isa0 unknown1: at port 0x620-0x623 on isa0 ad0: 8063MB [16383/16/63] at ata0-master using UDMA33 afd0: 96MB [96/64/32] at ata1-master using PIO0 acd0: CDROM <34X CD-ROM> at ata1-slave using UDMA33 Mounting root from ufs:/dev/da0s1a da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 6 lun 0 da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da0: 20.000MB/s transfers (10.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled da0: 8709MB (17836668 512 byte sectors: 64H 32S/T 8709C) icmp-response bandwidth limit 230/200 pps pid 322 (communicator-4.7), uid 1001: exited on signal 4 (core dumped) pid 383 (communicator-4.7), uid 1001: exited on signal 10 (core dumped) PS: Just one more thing: i am totaly new to scsi, may you point me some url that explains it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 18:41:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0041637B554 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:41:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA41527 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:41:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <200006230141.VAA41527@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Image-URL: http://www.transsys.com/louie/images/louie-mail.jpg From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Hardware in space? References: <002301bfdc6e$a99b3e20$0700000a@barney.expi> In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:24:02 EDT." <002301bfdc6e$a99b3e20$0700000a@barney.expi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:41:26 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org All this speculation is pretty interesting, but at some point someone who has experience building stuff that gets shot into space will need to get involved. Thermal design of the payload is probably one of the simpler problems that need to be addressed. Probably the power budget isn't unlimited, the payload is gonna get shook pretty good at a variety of frequencies and amplitudes. All of us software folks trying to apply dimly recalled high school physics isn't going to get very far. I would suggest that the original poster might consider getting involved with organizations that have built space-borne payloads, rather than reinventing a flat tire and learning it all the hard way. Try poking around the AMSAT web site (http://www.amsat.org) for some ideas and pointers. There are the folks (in the US anyway) that build amateur radio communications satellites, and have been at it for a few decades now. louie wa3ymh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 19: 6:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp (isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp [133.74.8.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1077E37B566 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 19:06:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp) Received: from localhost by isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp (8.8.7/1.1.20.3/28Jan00-0547AM) id LAA0000017547; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:03:53 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:03:53 +0900 (JST) From: Brian Handy To: Russ Pagenkopf Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-Reply-To: <39526009.54D0D8E7@uas.alaska.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Something else you might look at (although it it's Linux based, sorry > guys) is the LART project . They're using > the StrongARM chip which allows for the processor to essentially shut > down while not in use thus producing minimal heat. There are *many* > other advantages to using their system in your situation. While the > project is a work in progress, they do have working boards and free > schematics. Interesting. I didn't realize these chips shut down entirely when they're sitting idle, is that really true? It would be a bit more work than what I currently have in mind, which is to say, buy an industrial grade single-board Intel PC and heat-sink the bujeesus out of the CPU. How fast are these StrongARM chips? It's going to sit idle for a while, but then suddenly I'm going to want to have it talking to three serial ports simultaneously at a pretty zippy pace for a few minutes, then back to idle. I also have a *BSD bias built into me, I find...go with the evil you do know, not the one you don't. This has gotta work! :-) Thanks, Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 19:18:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (mail.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE35037B572 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 19:18:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <115271>; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:18:45 +1000 Content-return: prohibited Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:18:35 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-reply-to: ; from handy@isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp on Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 11:03:53AM +0900 To: Brian Handy Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <00Jun23.121845est.115271@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <39526009.54D0D8E7@uas.alaska.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2000-Jun-23 11:03:53 +0900, Brian Handy wrote: > I didn't realize these chips shut down entirely when they're >sitting idle, is that really true? Most of these sorts of high-end microcontrollers are fully static (no clock necessary) and can shut down just the core or the core and the clock oscillator - giving you microamp supply currents. > How fast are these StrongARM chips? At least high-end 486. >I also have a *BSD bias built into me, There is a NetBSD port for the StrongARM - I've seen it running (many years ago). You might also try talking to AMSAT. They've got a fair amount of experience building space-rated hardware on a shoe-string. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 22 21:33:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF5237C07B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:33:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02114; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:33:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03387; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:33:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200006230433.WAA03387@nomad.yogotech.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Louis A. Mamakos" Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-Reply-To: <200006230141.VAA41527@whizzo.transsys.com> References: <002301bfdc6e$a99b3e20$0700000a@barney.expi> <200006230141.VAA41527@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I would suggest that the original poster might consider getting > involved with organizations that have built space-borne payloads, rather > than reinventing a flat tire and learning it all the hard way. Trust me, Brian (the original poster) knows *all* about space-born payloads, having been one of the folks that help design one of the space satellites that's currently taking pictures of the Sun. I've heard many of his fascinating stories about shake-tests, vacuum tests, and the like. I obviously don't speak for him, but I *think* he's looking for hints on doing it cheaply, vs. the expensive way that is normally done. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 23 0:25:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from gscamnlh01.wr.usgs.gov (gscamnlh01.wr.usgs.gov [130.118.4.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9114637B895 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:25:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsowders@usgs.gov) To: "Blake" Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware in space? X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.2b December 16, 1999 Message-ID: From: rsowders@usgs.gov Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:25:19 -0700 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on gscamnlh01/SERVER/USGS/DOI(Release 5.0.2b |December 16, 1999) at 06/23/2000 12:25:31 AM, Serialize complete at 06/23/2000 12:25:31 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0028C9D488256907_=" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0028C9D488256907_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You could use a refrigeration chip. They are available locally here. They're the same size as the CPU and can cool pretty good. You could turn it off after launch or attach a thermostat. I use the thermostat. Send me your address in private email and I'll send you one. I'm right down the road from NASA/Ames. I quit using them in favor of closed loop cryogenic, but that would be way too heavy for your needs. "Blake" Sent by: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG 06/21/00 11:16 PM To: cc: Subject: Re: Hardware in space? try getting a faster CPU and underclocking it.. say a P200 running at 66mghz or something.. get a 100 bus speed mghtz cpu an run it at 66 mghz or 33... that will make cooling MUCH easier ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Handy" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: Hardware in space? > Wow! What a great dose of information! Thanks everyone! > > I've got a bunch of information, and a handful of people to respond to... > so stand by, those of you who know who you are. Anyway, a couple of > clarifications since I stirred up so much interest: > > - This is only the proposal stage of the instrument. The way NASA works > is every year they make "Announcements of Opportunity", which is a thingy > that invites us to write proposals to do work. There are lots of various > categories of this, from data analysis of Solar Flares to theoretical > consideration of pulsar evolution to proposing new instruments for the > Next Generation Space Telescope. If we win, we'd start working on this > sometime next year, probably, with a launch slated for about 3 years after > that. > > - The sounding rocket environment isn't quite as bad as it sounds. The > computer will be grounded to the chassis, but this doesn't mean it's going > to get real cold. We've only got 5 minutes above the atmosphere, and I > think it'd take a fair bit longer than that to get cold enough to matter. > There's a group at Stanford that's taken this to an extreme: > > http://aa.stanford.edu/~ssdl/ > > These guys are trying to get to where they can turn a satellite into > senior thesis project for a student. (I don't think they've gotten it > down to a year yet, though.) Basically they're working on the level of > re-inventing Sputnik. Amazing stuff, amazingly simple, teaches people a > bunch. Way below the level of sophistication I have to aim for, > unfortunately. I'm told some of their electronics parts come from Radio > Shack! :-) > > -- While getting too cold probably isn't an issue, COOLING certainly is. > As a few people have alluded to, cooling in space becomes an issue because > there's no air. This will be a problem much earlier, because we'll > evacuate the payload several hours before launch. If there's a delay, the > package could wind up sitting on the launch rail for a few days under > vacuum. I've worried about blowing the top off the CPU from the heat. I > imagine it'll probably have to be heat-sunk to the chassis in some manner. > Someone mentioned using a 486; that's not such a bad idea. Mostly I'm > just grabbing data from the RS-232 ports and stuffing it to disk, so I'll > probably wind up doing some experimentation to see just what I'll need. > > > Thanks, > > Brian > [Reporting in from Japan] > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > --=_alternative 0028C9D488256907_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
You could use a refrigeration chip.  They are available locally here.  They're the same size as the CPU and can cool pretty good.  You could turn it off after launch or attach a thermostat.  I use the thermostat.  Send me your address in private email and I'll send you one.  I'm right down the road from NASA/Ames.  I quit using them in favor of closed loop cryogenic, but that would be way too heavy for your needs.



"Blake" <humanhunter@connectstar.net>
Sent by: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG

06/21/00 11:16 PM

       
        To:        <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
        cc:        
        Subject:        Re: Hardware in space?




try getting a faster CPU and underclocking it.. say  a P200 running at 66mghz or something.. get a 100 bus speed mghtz cpu an run it  at 66 mghz  or 33... that will make cooling MUCH easier
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Handy" <handy@isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp>
To: <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: Hardware in space?

> Wow!  What a great dose of  information!  Thanks everyone!
>
> I've got a bunch of  information, and a handful of people to respond to...
> so stand by, those  of you who know who you are.  Anyway, a couple of
> clarifications  since I stirred up so much interest:
>
> - This is only the  proposal stage of the instrument.  The way NASA works
> is every year  they make "Announcements of Opportunity", which is a thingy
> that invites  us to write proposals to do work.  There are lots of various
>  categories of this, from data analysis of Solar Flares to theoretical
>  consideration of pulsar evolution to proposing new instruments for the
>  Next Generation Space Telescope.  If we win, we'd start working on  this
> sometime next year, probably, with a launch slated for about 3  years after
> that. 
>
> - The sounding rocket  environment isn't quite as bad as it sounds.  The
> computer will be  grounded to the chassis, but this doesn't mean it's going
> to get real  cold.  We've only got 5 minutes above the atmosphere, and I
> think  it'd take a fair bit longer than that to get cold enough to matter.
>  There's a group at Stanford that's taken this to an extreme:
>
>  http://aa.stanford.edu/~ssdl/
>  
> These guys are trying to get to where they can turn a satellite into  
> senior thesis project for a student.  (I don't think they've  gotten it
> down to a year yet, though.)  Basically they're working  on the level of
> re-inventing Sputnik.  Amazing stuff, amazingly  simple, teaches people a
> bunch.  Way below the level of  sophistication I have to aim for,
> unfortunately.  I'm told some of  their electronics parts come from Radio
> Shack!  :-)
>  
> -- While getting too cold probably isn't an issue, COOLING certainly  is.
> As a few people have alluded to, cooling in space becomes an issue  because
> there's no air.  This will be a problem much earlier,  because we'll
> evacuate the payload several hours before launch.  If  there's a delay, the
> package could wind up sitting on the launch rail  for a few days under
> vacuum. I've worried about blowing the top off the  CPU from the heat.  I
> imagine it'll probably have to be heat-sunk  to the chassis in some manner.
> Someone mentioned using a 486; that's not  such a bad idea.  Mostly I'm
> just grabbing data from the RS-232  ports and stuffing it to disk, so I'll
> probably wind up doing some  experimentation to see just what I'll need.
>
>
>  Thanks,
>
> Brian
> [Reporting in from Japan]
>  
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with  "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message
>  

--=_alternative 0028C9D488256907_=-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 23 1:36: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (mail.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B459837B55D for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 01:35:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <115316>; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:35:47 +1000 Content-return: prohibited Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:35:33 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: Hardware in space? In-reply-to: <20000623090738.D79514@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au>; from peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au on Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 09:07:38AM +1000 To: Narvi , handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <00Jun23.183547est.115316@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <4.1.20000622075529.00979b80@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> <20000623090738.D79514@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2000-Jun-23 09:07:38 +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: >Aluminium has a specific heat of ~0.95J/g per degree C. >Good alternatives include lithium (3.3J/g/degree) and water Another reference gives Al 0.90 J/g/K and Li 3.4 J/g/K. >- Using latent heat of fusion: ie melting a solid. I can't find any good suggestions of suitable materials in my (general) chemistry texts. > Alternatively, Rose's Metal (from memory) might do. Having checked, I meant Wood's Metal - a BiCdPbSn alloy melting at 65C (which is probably the upper reasonable temperature limit). Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 23 9: 0:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B96F37B9CF for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:00:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26305; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:00:14 -0700 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:00:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ultra/ultra w scsi In-Reply-To: <395295B5.5F777F6D@tdnet.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It's wide. Wide is an option that is negotiated between a target and an initiator. So is 'Ultra' (20 Mhz synchronous mode). Therefore, you have in the 2940 a controller that can 'Ultra' (but not wide if wide negotiation didn't occur) and Ultra/Wide (if it did). These are fairly basic concepts. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 23 9:22: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283E837C3AB; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:21:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from n_hibma@qubesoft.com) Received: from calcaphon.demon.co.uk ([193.237.19.5] helo=bluebottle.qubesoft.com) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 135WDJ-00038S-0X; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:21:53 +0100 Received: from henny.webweaving.org (henny.qubesoft.com [192.168.1.5]) by bluebottle.qubesoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA28473; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:22:24 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@qubesoft.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by henny.webweaving.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02156; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:57:30 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@qubesoft.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:57:29 +0100 (BST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@localhost Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Warner Losh Cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unknown Devices In-Reply-To: <200006221936.NAA91645@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > : > usb tty and modems aren't supported, as far as I know. > : > : They're "nearly" there, AFAIR. I sent Nick some code a while back that > : addressed the last problem I understood he had. > > I'll have to ask him about it then. Picked it up, looked at it, got distracted by Reality and must have dropped it again. I wish Reality would just back off for a while... Yes, the driver is here and it seems to work according to Mike Meyer (IIRC), he's fixed up a few other bits and pieces and I am ready to commit it, but I haven't had time to test it yet. Nick -- n_hibma@webweaving.org n_hibma@freebsd.org USB project http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 23 13:25:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from guru.mired.org (zoom0-003.telepath.com [216.14.0.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E553E37B89C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:25:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: (qmail 9029 invoked by uid 100); 23 Jun 2000 20:25:27 -0000 From: Mike Meyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14675.51127.239805.881113@guru.mired.org> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:25:27 -0500 (CDT) To: Nick Hibma Cc: Warner Losh , Mike Smith , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unknown Devices In-Reply-To: References: <200006221936.NAA91645@harmony.village.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 10) "Capitol Reef" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nick Hibma writes: > Yes, the driver is here and it seems to work according to Mike Meyer > (IIRC), he's fixed up a few other bits and pieces and I am ready to > commit it, but I haven't had time to test it yet. I've still got the problems I reported to the bsd-usb list, but I suspect those are specific to my modem, not umodem. I've been updating my development box to -current, along with creating space so I can install Win98 on a second disk to investigate this some more. Unfortunately, I probably won't be able to look into it for a couple of weeks, as Reality is about to make a serious intrustion. It's a lot better than what's in the tree now, and I'd certainly like to see it committed. Thanx, ; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:18:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kernel@tdnet.com.br) Received: from tdnet.com.br (port03.tdnet.com.br [200.236.148.103]) by vicosa.dpi.ufv.br (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10504; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:17:04 -0200 (GRNLNDDT) Message-ID: <39537D66.21DC043A@tdnet.com.br> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:08:22 +0000 From: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mjacob@feral.com, hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ultra/ultra w scsi References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Jacob wrote: > > It's wide. Wide is an option that is negotiated between a target and an > initiator. So is 'Ultra' (20 Mhz synchronous mode). Therefore, you have in the > 2940 a controller that can 'Ultra' (but not wide if wide negotiation didn't > occur) and Ultra/Wide (if it did). > > These are fairly basic concepts. Dear gentleman, Thanks a lot for your support! But i have just one single question: He can i force wide occur ? As you may see, i known nothing about SCSI device. May you point me some url where i can read about SCSI? Thanks for your time and cooperation (and of course, patience). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 23 14:38:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8063E37B89C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27212; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:38:08 -0700 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:37:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios Cc: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ultra/ultra w scsi In-Reply-To: <39537D66.21DC043A@tdnet.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Thanks a lot for your support! But i have just one single question: He > can i force wide occur ? That's up to either side to negotiate. Usually the initiator (host system) starts it off. > As you may see, i known nothing about SCSI device. > May you point me some url where i can read about SCSI? The (unofficial) specifications can be found at http://www.t10.org I've been working with SCSI since 1983, so I probably haven't got a clue as to what's a good introduction. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 23 14:48:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from wondermutt.net (host75-157.student.udel.edu [128.175.75.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB3EE37B89C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:48:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from papalia@udel.edu) Received: from morgaine.udel.edu (morgaine.wondermutt.net [192.168.1.2]) by wondermutt.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05633; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:48:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from papalia@udel.edu) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000623174355.00aa73a0@mail.udel.edu> X-Sender: papalia@mail.udel.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:47:25 -0400 To: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios , mjacob@feral.com, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: John Subject: Re: ultra/ultra w scsi In-Reply-To: <39537D66.21DC043A@tdnet.com.br> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > It's wide. Wide is an option that is negotiated between a target and an > > initiator. So is 'Ultra' (20 Mhz synchronous mode). Therefore, you have > in the > > 2940 a controller that can 'Ultra' (but not wide if wide negotiation didn't > > occur) and Ultra/Wide (if it did). > > > > These are fairly basic concepts. > > >Dear gentleman, > >Thanks a lot for your support! But i have just one single question: He >can i force wide occur ? I missed out on some of this thread, so please forgive me if I'm repeating something that was said... If I recall, you said you had an Adaptec 2940UW... if that's the case, when you first power up the computer, it should show you the BIOS checks of the CPU and RAM, and should (hopefully) off you an option to "Press CTRL-A To Enter SCSI-Select Utility", or a very very similar statement. If you press CTRL-A at this prompt, it will take you into the Adaptec BIOS. In there, you can configure device options, and set "wide" negotiation on and off for each SCSI ID. If you know your SCSI ID # for the Wide drives (which was in your dmesg output, which I no longer have), you can set that drive to negotiate a wide connection. If the connection doesn't go wide at your next boot up, then you have problems which I've never known how to fix, other than replacing the drive =) Good luck, John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 23 16:39:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from vicosa.dpi.ufv.br (vicosa.dpi.ufv.br [200.17.74.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF87C37BA18 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:38:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kernel@tdnet.com.br) Received: from tdnet.com.br (port21.tdnet.com.br [200.236.148.121]) by vicosa.dpi.ufv.br (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id UAA13808 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:38:02 -0200 (GRNLNDDT) Message-ID: <3953BE7A.DEFBDD83@tdnet.com.br> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:46:02 +0000 From: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: ultra/ultra W Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi folks! I am trying to get my scsi devices to work the way i want, but until now, i got no success. It was advertised that the disk i have can do 13.5MB/s but i can only get into about 8.5/9 MB/s as you can see from this: grios@etosha:/usr/home/grios$ dd if=/dev/zero of=a count=10240 10240+0 records in 10240+0 records out 5242880 bytes transferred in 0.624366 secs (8397127 bytes/sec) grios@etosha:/usr/home/grios$ More useful information: grios@etosha:/usr/home/grios$ /sbin/mount /dev/da0s1a on / (ufs, local, writes: sync 117 async 232, reads: sync 265 async 7) /dev/da0s1e on /usr (ufs, local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 260, reads: sync 1071 async 63) procfs on /proc (procfs, local) pid84@etosha:/home on /home (nfs) pid84@etosha:/mnt on /mnt (nfs) grios@etosha:/usr/home/grios$ As you can see, i am using soft-updates on da0s1e, and this could not leap my I/O performance to a new level. Now my dmesg output: Copyright (c) 1992-2000 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE #1: Fri Jun 23 19:29:52 GMT 2000 root@etosha:/usr/src/sys/compile/ETOSHA Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz CPU: Pentium II/Pentium II Xeon/Celeron (267.27-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x634 Stepping = 4 Features=0x80f9ff real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) avail memory = 127569920 (124580K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc02fd000. Preloaded userconfig_script "/boot/kernel.conf" at 0xc02fd09c. Preloaded elf module "splash_bmp.ko" at 0xc02fd0ec. Preloaded elf module "vesa.ko" at 0xc02fd190. VESA: v2.0, 4096k memory, flags:0x0, mode table:0xc00c6d9d (c0006d9d) VESA: Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. Pentium Pro MTRR support enabled module_register_init: MOD_LOAD (splash_bmp, c02f2694, 0) error 2 apm0: on motherboard apm: found APM BIOS v1.2, connected at v1.2 npx0: on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface pcib0: on motherboard pci0: on pcib0 pcib1: at device 1.0 on pci0 pci1: on pcib1 pci1: at 0.0 irq 11 isab0: at device 7.0 on pci0 isa0: on isab0 atapci0: port 0xf000-0xf00f at device 7.1 on pci0 ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0 ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 pci0: at 7.2 irq 12 chip1: port 0x5000-0x500f at device 7.3 on pci0 ahc0: port 0xe400-0xe4ff mem 0xe9000000-0xe900 0fff irq 11 at device 11.0 on pci0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs isa0: too many dependant configs (8) isa0: unexpected small tag 14 atkbdc0: at port 0x60,0x64 on isa0 atkbd0: irq 1 on atkbdc0 vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa0000-0xbffff on isa0 sc0: on isa0 sc0: VGA <8 virtual consoles, flags=0x200> sio1 at port 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 flags 0x10 on isa0 sio1: type 16550A sio2 at port 0x3e8-0x3ef irq 4 on isa0 sio2: type 16550A ppc0: at port 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa0 ppc0: Generic chipset (NIBBLE-only) in COMPATIBLE mode lpt0: on ppbus0 lpt0: Interrupt-driven port ed0 at port 0x300-0x31f iomem 0xd8000 irq 10 on isa0 ed0: address 00:00:21:6c:8f:e0, type NE2000 (16 bit) sbc0: at port 0x220-0x22f,0x330-0x331,0x388-0x38b irq 5 drq 1,5 on isa0 sbc0: setting card to irq 5, drq 1, 5 pcm0: on sbc0 unknown0: at port 0x200-0x207 on isa0 unknown1: at port 0x620-0x623 on isa0 ad0: 8063MB [16383/16/63] at ata0-master using UDMA33 afd0: 96MB [96/64/32] at ata1-master using PIO0 acd0: CDROM <34X CD-ROM> at ata1-slave using UDMA33 Mounting root from ufs:/dev/da0s1a da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 6 lun 0 da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da0: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit) da0: 8709MB (17836668 512 byte sectors: 64H 32S/T 8709C) Some information about my scsi device: etosha# camcontrol inquiry 0:6:0 pass0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device pass0: Serial Number 199910440080 pass0: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled etosha# camcontrol negotiate 0:6:0 -v Current Parameters: (pass0:ahc0:0:6:0): sync parameter: 12 (pass0:ahc0:0:6:0): frequency: 20.000MHz (pass0:ahc0:0:6:0): offset: 8 (pass0:ahc0:0:6:0): bus width: 16 bits (pass0:ahc0:0:6:0): disconnection is disabled (pass0:ahc0:0:6:0): tagged queueing is disabled ahc0: SIM/HBA version: 1 ahc0: supports tag queue messages ahc0: supports SDTR message ahc0: supports 16 bit wide SCSI ahc0: HBA engine count: 0 ahc0: maximum target: 15 ahc0: maximum LUN: 7 ahc0: highest path ID in subsystem: 0 ahc0: SIM vendor: FreeBSD ahc0: HBA vendor: Adaptec ahc0: bus ID: 0 ahc0: base transfer speed: 3.300MB/sec Now my questions is: If my scsi disk can do 13.5Mb/s, why my base transfer speed is 3.300MB/sec ? This box is running 4.0 Stable, the controller/disk were brougth from a 3.2STable box. There is was doing about 13.5MB/sec. Why now i have such a difference. Thanks for your time and cooperation. Best regards. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 24 14:30:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from virtualtrends.com (virtualtrends.com [192.41.12.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1F437B506 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:30:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from humanhunter@connectstar.net) Received: from skyline (06-104.024.popsite.net [216.126.161.104]) by virtualtrends.com (8.8.5) id PAA21147; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:30:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: virtualtrends.com: Host 06-104.024.popsite.net [216.126.161.104] claimed to be skyline Message-ID: <001101bfde3b$89437740$3700a8c0@skyline> From: "Blake" To: References: <8070C3A4E99ED211A63200105A19B99B3176B3@mail.edifecs.com> Subject: Re: Hardware in Space Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:23:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFDE00.DBFB29A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFDE00.DBFB29A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sure that would work, I'd get a socket prcessor too... it's attached to = the motherboard a little cleaner.. K6-2 400 on a MB clocked at 33mghtz = and the multiplier clocked low.. that should take care of the heat ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michael VanLoon=20 To: 'Blake' ; freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG=20 Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2000 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Hardware in space? I don't think I'd get a P200. I'd go with a modern .18 micron = processor, which will run very cool when under-clocked. Then go with = the lowest speed the motherboard will support. Of course, modern = processors are clock locked for the most part, so... =20 Maybe a .25 micron K6-2 or K6-3, which is under-clocked, since they = are not multiplier locked. An Athlon could do this too with a GFD, but = the GFD would almost certainly fall of during dramatic shaking. -----Original Message----- From: Blake [mailto:humanhunter@connectstar.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 11:17 PM To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware in space? try getting a faster CPU and underclocking it.. say a P200 running = at 66mghz or something.. get a 100 bus speed mghtz cpu an run it at 66 = mghz or 33... that will make cooling MUCH easier=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Brian Handy" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: Hardware in space? > Wow! What a great dose of information! Thanks everyone! >=20 > I've got a bunch of information, and a handful of people to = respond to... > so stand by, those of you who know who you are. Anyway, a couple = of > clarifications since I stirred up so much interest: >=20 > - This is only the proposal stage of the instrument. The way NASA = works > is every year they make "Announcements of Opportunity", which is a = thingy > that invites us to write proposals to do work. There are lots of = various > categories of this, from data analysis of Solar Flares to = theoretical > consideration of pulsar evolution to proposing new instruments for = the > Next Generation Space Telescope. If we win, we'd start working on = this > sometime next year, probably, with a launch slated for about 3 = years after > that. =20 >=20 > - The sounding rocket environment isn't quite as bad as it sounds. = The > computer will be grounded to the chassis, but this doesn't mean = it's going > to get real cold. We've only got 5 minutes above the atmosphere, = and I > think it'd take a fair bit longer than that to get cold enough to = matter. > There's a group at Stanford that's taken this to an extreme: >=20 > http://aa.stanford.edu/~ssdl/ >=20 > These guys are trying to get to where they can turn a satellite = into a > senior thesis project for a student. (I don't think they've = gotten it > down to a year yet, though.) Basically they're working on the = level of > re-inventing Sputnik. Amazing stuff, amazingly simple, teaches = people a > bunch. Way below the level of sophistication I have to aim for, > unfortunately. I'm told some of their electronics parts come from = Radio > Shack! :-) >=20 > -- While getting too cold probably isn't an issue, COOLING = certainly is. > As a few people have alluded to, cooling in space becomes an issue = because > there's no air. This will be a problem much earlier, because = we'll > evacuate the payload several hours before launch. If there's a = delay, the > package could wind up sitting on the launch rail for a few days = under > vacuum. I've worried about blowing the top off the CPU from the = heat. I > imagine it'll probably have to be heat-sunk to the chassis in some = manner. > Someone mentioned using a 486; that's not such a bad idea. Mostly = I'm > just grabbing data from the RS-232 ports and stuffing it to disk, = so I'll > probably wind up doing some experimentation to see just what I'll = need. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Brian > [Reporting in from Japan] >=20 >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFDE00.DBFB29A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sure that would work, I'd get a socket = prcessor=20 too... it's attached to the motherboard a little cleaner.. K6-2 400 on a = MB=20 clocked at 33mghtz and the multiplier clocked low.. that should take = care of the=20 heat
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Michael=20 VanLoon
To: 'Blake' ; freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG =
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2000 = 1:55=20 PM
Subject: RE: Hardware in = space?

I don't think I'd get a P200.  I'd go = with a=20 modern .18 micron processor, which will run very cool when=20 under-clocked.  Then go with the lowest speed the motherboard = will=20 support.  Of course, modern processors are clock locked for the = most=20 part, so...
 
Maybe a .25 micron K6-2 or K6-3, which is=20 under-clocked, since they are not multiplier locked.  An Athlon = could do=20 this too with a GFD, but the GFD would almost certainly fall of during = dramatic shaking.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blake=20 [mailto:humanhunter@connectstar.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June = 21,=20 2000 11:17 PM
To: = freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:=20 Re: Hardware in space?

try getting a faster CPU and = underclocking it..=20 say a P200 running at 66mghz or something.. get a 100 bus speed = mghtz cpu an=20 run it at 66 mghz  or 33... that will make cooling MUCH easier=20
----- Original Message ----- =
From: "Brian Handy" <handy@isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp>
To: <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 5:17 = PM
Subject: Re: Hardware in=20 space?

> Wow!  What a = great dose of=20 information!  Thanks everyone!
>
> I've got a = bunch of=20 information, and a handful of people to respond to...
> so = stand by,=20 those of you who know who you are.  Anyway, a couple of
> = clarifications since I stirred up so much interest:
>
> = - This=20 is only the proposal stage of the instrument.  The way NASA=20 works
> is every year they make "Announcements of = Opportunity", which=20 is a thingy
> that invites us to write proposals to do = work. =20 There are lots of various
> categories of this, from data = analysis of=20 Solar Flares to theoretical
> consideration of pulsar = evolution to=20 proposing new instruments for the
> Next Generation Space=20 Telescope.  If we win, we'd start working on this
> = sometime next=20 year, probably, with a launch slated for about 3 years after
> = that. 
>
> - The sounding rocket environment = isn't quite=20 as bad as it sounds.  The
> computer will be grounded to = the=20 chassis, but this doesn't mean it's going
> to get real = cold. =20 We've only got 5 minutes above the atmosphere, and I
> think = it'd take=20 a fair bit longer than that to get cold enough to matter.
> = There's a=20 group at Stanford that's taken this to an extreme:
>
>=20 http://aa.stanford.edu/~ssdl/
>
> These guys are trying to get to where they = can turn a=20 satellite into a
> senior thesis project for a student.  = (I don't=20 think they've gotten it
> down to a year yet, though.)  = Basically=20 they're working on the level of
> re-inventing Sputnik.  = Amazing=20 stuff, amazingly simple, teaches people a
> bunch.  Way = below the=20 level of sophistication I have to aim for,
> = unfortunately.  I'm=20 told some of their electronics parts come from Radio
> = Shack! =20 :-)
>
> -- While getting too cold probably isn't an = issue,=20 COOLING certainly is.
> As a few people have alluded to, = cooling in=20 space becomes an issue because
> there's no air.  This = will be a=20 problem much earlier, because we'll
> evacuate the payload = several=20 hours before launch.  If there's a delay, the
> package = could=20 wind up sitting on the launch rail for a few days under
> = vacuum. I've=20 worried about blowing the top off the CPU from the heat.  = I
>=20 imagine it'll probably have to be heat-sunk to the chassis in some=20 manner.
> Someone mentioned using a 486; that's not such a bad = idea.  Mostly I'm
> just grabbing data from the RS-232 = ports and=20 stuffing it to disk, so I'll
> probably wind up doing some=20 experimentation to see just what I'll need.
>
> =
>=20 Thanks,
>
> Brian
> [Reporting in from = Japan]
>=20
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with=20 "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message
>=20
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFDE00.DBFB29A0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message