From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Aug 20 0:41:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.osd.bsdi.com (zippy.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDA5537B43F; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA88772; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:40:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com) To: Darren Reed Cc: jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com, mjacob@feral.com, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Integration of Net/OpenBSD code (was Re: your mail) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:03:12 +1000." <200008200303.NAA06295@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:40:32 -0700 Message-ID: <88769.966757232@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm not sure I understand what [practical] suggestions you're making here. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Aug 20 1:43:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from darren2.lnk.telstra.net (darren2.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.53.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98DD37B424; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 01:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by darren2.lnk.telstra.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id IAA00819; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 08:43:07 GMT From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <200008200842.SAA07457@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Subject: Re: Integration of Net/OpenBSD code (was Re: your mail) In-Reply-To: <88769.966757232@localhost> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Aug 20, 0 00:40:32 am" To: jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 18:42:42 +1000 (EST) Cc: mjacob@feral.com, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL37 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In some email I received from Jordan K. Hubbard, sie wrote: > I'm not sure I understand what [practical] suggestions you're > making here. I think people should build upon their strengths, at this stage, rather than spread themselves around. From comments made by others, I tend to think that it is less than trivial to add sparc plus it would seem that resources for it aren't exactly overwhelming. If people are saying the x86 part of FreeBSD is weakening (some say since the adoption of alpha) I don't think it is a good idea to start (or promote) work on a sparc port. To me, having people (not me!) make those sort of comments should be ringing alarm bells for those behind FreeBSD given its core user base is x86. Personally, I think it is more important for FreeBSD to concentrate on getting IA-64 (and AMD 64bit) support happening than for sparc64 and that sparc64 is a waste of time/effort for FreeBSD. Concentrate on what FreeBSD is good at doing and don't get distracted. Darren --- NetBSD/sparc64 - self-hosting for the new millennium! Port Home page: - http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/sparc64/ Complete 64bit snapshots: - ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/arch/sparc64/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Aug 20 1:58:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA34837B42C; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 01:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeppo.feral.com (IDENT:mjacob@zeppo [192.67.166.71]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04342; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 01:58:46 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 01:54:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Darren Reed Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Integration of Net/OpenBSD code (was Re: your mail) In-Reply-To: <200008200842.SAA07457@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Personally, I think it is more important for FreeBSD to concentrate > on getting IA-64 (and AMD 64bit) support happening than for sparc64 > and that sparc64 is a waste of time/effort for FreeBSD. Concentrate > on what FreeBSD is good at doing and don't get distracted. I can't say I quite agree. There are approaches that the Alpha/FreeBSD port took that are an interesting spin on things not available in the NetBSD alpha port. I think it will be quite interesting to see a NewBus implementation on sparc, and whether that will make an E10K port easier. I rather think so. I guess I'm saying that in FreeBSD there is some fundamentally good multi-platform technology not available in NetBSD, which is quite surprising because most of FreeBSD hasn't the slightest clue about multi-platform issues. Personally, I think a FreeBSD SPARC port for the large scale 64 bit machines will happen, and should happen. I should think that major FreeBSD customers like Yahoo expect and deserve it. I don't believe that they are going to switch to NetBSD. I don't think FreeBSD should waste 30 seconds on non-64 bit sparc machines either. I don't think that this is a distraction from IA64 at all as the same folks are very unlikely to be working on both ports. In any case, it will only happen when somebody with the focus and moxy and time to do it busts loose the ~2 months it will take to do. If I had the time, I sure might, but I don't (I'm trying to reduce the number of things I've promised to others for months first). -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Aug 20 13:30:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.osd.bsdi.com (zippy.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16D437B43F; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA98354; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:29:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com) To: Darren Reed Cc: jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), mjacob@feral.com, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Integration of Net/OpenBSD code (was Re: your mail) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Aug 2000 18:42:42 +1000." <200008200842.SAA07457@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:29:01 -0700 Message-ID: <98351.966803341@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think people should build upon their strengths, at this stage, > rather than spread themselves around. From comments made by others, > I tend to think that it is less than trivial to add sparc plus it > would seem that resources for it aren't exactly overwhelming. This is very true, though fortunately only half-true. The resources for doing a quality FreeBSD/sparc port are actually present in the community, they're just lying dormant, like gophers in the winter. :) This makes what you say true from the perspective of not having such resources available right now, but leaves grounds for hope that what happened with the Alpha will also happen with the SPARC, e.g. a couple of mavricks will dive into it and rapidly advance things to the stage where Something Serious(tm) is happening on that front. At that stage, many of the sleeping rodents suddenly wake up and you now have a full team working away on it. I also think the Alpha port was an important step for the project in that it got us 64 bit clean well before the IA64 arrived and it validated the concept that we could do something non-x86 based on an ongoing basis. For the network appliance market, a important and growing segment of what some of FreeBSD's core "PC interest group" is morphing into, we need to get onto architectures like MIPS, PowerPC and StrongARM and doing any sorts of non-x86 ports are good practice for this. > If people are saying the x86 part of FreeBSD is weakening (some Only one person has said this so far and I think he was actually about as wrong as one can get about that. If there was a groundswell of such opinion then that would obviously be a big wake-up call for us, but such is definitely not the case as the x86 remains the principal focus for an overwhelming majority of FreeBSD's developers. Almost too much so I think sometimes. As to the IA64, that's basically stalled simply because there are so few people out there with the equipment (once that changes, things will accelerate greatly). For the same reason, it's not a major priority for the corporate world yet either. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Aug 20 15:52:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from snark.piermont.com (snark.piermont.com [206.1.51.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E5D37B43C; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by snark.piermont.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EB11E1E00C8; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 18:52:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Perry E. Metzger" To: jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Competition References: <200008202212.IAA08232@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Date: 20 Aug 2000 18:52:31 -0400 In-Reply-To: Darren Reed's message of "Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:12:23 +1000 (EST)" Message-ID: <87d7j3lf4g.fsf@snark.piermont.com> Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > This is very true, though fortunately only half-true. The resources > for doing a quality FreeBSD/sparc port are actually present in the > community, they're just lying dormant, like gophers in the winter. :) You mean "The NetBSD code base is easy enough to copy and call our own. Why don't we just do it. Surely they aren't going to complain -- after all, it is all open source. It worked for Alpha, after all." By the way, those wanting to run an open source BSD on a Sparc today can just download our stuff. It works. Its clean. It is in no obvious way inferior to anything you could possibly produce after a large amount of your own effort taking our code. If there are things you don't like about the way it works, we happily take fixes. -- Perry E. Metzger perry@wasabisystems.com -- Quality NetBSD Sales, Support & Service. http://www.wasabisystems.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Aug 20 20:47:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C15D037B422; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01233; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:33:37 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:33:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: "Perry E. Metzger" Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Competition In-Reply-To: <87d7j3lf4g.fsf@snark.piermont.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 20 Aug 2000, Perry E. Metzger wrote: > > > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > > > This is very true, though fortunately only half-true. The resources > > for doing a quality FreeBSD/sparc port are actually present in the > > community, they're just lying dormant, like gophers in the winter. :) > > You mean "The NetBSD code base is easy enough to copy and call our > own. Why don't we just do it. Surely they aren't going to complain -- > after all, it is all open source. It worked for Alpha, after all." I don't think that this is a fair characterization, Perry. The FreeBSD port bootstrapped itself this way, but has changed significantly since then. Snide comments ill-become you. > By the way, those wanting to run an open source BSD on a Sparc today > can just download our stuff. It works. Its clean. It is in no obvious > way inferior to anything you could possibly produce after a large > amount of your own effort taking our code. If there are things you > don't like about the way it works, we happily take fixes. See other mail as to why this might not be the right approach for FreeBSD. As soon as I get more cycles, Perry, I plan to help the sparc64 NetBSD port along. I see it as a separate project from anything in FreeBSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Sun Aug 20 20:47:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from bsd4us.org (cn839109-a.newcas1.de.home.com [24.23.80.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ED86C37B423 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 11254 invoked by uid 1000); 21 Aug 2000 03:39:37 -0000 Date: 21 Aug 2000 03:39:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20000821033937.11253.qmail@bsd4us.org> From: lyndon@bsd4us.org To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: am I missing something? Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Narvi wrote:> It just happens that the following things have not came together into one > person yet: > * time > * desire to work on freebsd-sparc > * ability to work on the level required to kickstart it > * hardware I have always had desire and hardware... I'm making the time. I believe there is a difference between being able "to work on the level required" and understanding *how* to accomplish a port to a new architecture - regardless of previous work that has been done in sister OS's or in sister ports (FreeBSD/alpha). For two years I've been on this list. Every six months or so, someone wants to know the progess of the port, which starts this huge discussion about how we can borrow from this code, read from that useless document, or just give up and use insert-other-prefix-hereBSD. Admittedly, when I first became interested in porting FreeBSD to SPARC, I couldn't write helloworld.c without consulting a manual. While I've overcome that obstacle (and then some), I still know next to nothing about how to proceed. We can't blame eachother for not knowing what needs to be done. We can blame everyone on this list (myself included) of not doing anything other than arguing about how to start. Here's what I'm doing: 1) investigating the use of the sparc-rtems ports for use in cross-compilation (I never did get the cross-compile port of gcc done) 2) trying to read and understand the kernel source tree, in structure, use, and in the code 3) building a to-do list for coding efforts My goal is a working sparc/v8 kernel. I don't have a timeframe. To answer the question before it's asked, there is an amount of work done for sparc/v9: as I don't have ready access to an UltraSPARC (for building an OS, that is), I cannot testify to the completeness or viability of this code. I would imagine that at least parts of this work are leverageable, even though it is based on FreeBSD-3.something. Truthfully, I don't know how to close this email: it sounds a plea, a rant, an accusation, and an ultimatum. Stay tuned for more lunacy... <:) Lyndon http://bsd4us.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Mon Aug 21 3: 2:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.osd.bsdi.com (zippy.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5ED37B423; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 03:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA00447; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 03:01:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com) To: "Perry E. Metzger" Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Competition In-reply-to: Your message of "20 Aug 2000 18:52:31 EDT." <87d7j3lf4g.fsf@snark.piermont.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 03:01:01 -0700 Message-ID: <444.966852061@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You mean "The NetBSD code base is easy enough to copy and call our > own. Why don't we just do it. Surely they aren't going to complain -- > after all, it is all open source. It worked for Alpha, after all." Heh. This is a historically "interesting" perspective and suggests that personal bias may have overpowered the reality of actual events for someone. :-) I've certainly never heard anyone refer to the Alpha code as "our own", from either a personal or a FreeBSD project perspective, and I would openly challenge you to find any such assertions on a FreeBSD mailing list. I can nonetheless save you the trouble of looking because they don't exist. I believe the only person who could credibly claim the Alpha bits as "his own" in any sense would be Chris Demetriou, and I've never heard that fact openly disputed by anyone in the BSD community. That's his copyright plainly at the top of alpha/alpha/cpuconf.c and we all remember his work at CMU as well. To be more factual than emotional about this point in general, I don't think the FreeBSD community feels a great deal of ownership for the *overwhelming majority* of FreeBDS code base given that we're not the authors of 4.4 BSD or the GPL toolchain used to build it, we're merely some of the latest custodians. Hell, anyone who's not on crack clearly feels that way given that it's a fundamental truth we've lived with since the project started. It's also the case that none of us would (or should) be putting code into the open source domain in the first place if we didn't WANT it to be used by any and all takers, and anyone in the NetBSD community who felt that code was "stolen" in some way for the FreeBSD/alpha port would be missing the entire idea behind this common exercise we're all engaged in. What sits in our mutual CVS repositories is not "our" code or "your" code by any meaningful definition since both FreeBSD and NetBSD represent hugely inter-dependent collections of code provided by everyone from the FSF to Hewlett-Packard. The alpha port, for example, would be little more than a comparatively useless academic exercise in running *BSD on the Alpha were it not for gcc and the work of hundreds of other individuals who've all provided vital pieces of the jigsaw puzzle which make up a usable operating system on any architecture. To claim ownership (to the degree that anything can be "taken" or "stolen") over an entire port of the BSD operating system is simply claiming too much from an engineering perspective and misses the concept of open source development besides. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Mon Aug 21 3:57:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from relay.amtkom.ru (ns.amtkom.ru [195.54.212.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 813D037B423 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 03:57:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ns.amtkom.ru with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:57:12 +0400 Message-ID: <810089011AE4D111827800A0C94BAC02026690@ns.amtkom.ru> From: "E.Pavlov" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:57:03 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C00B5E.8EB5C1E0" Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C00B5E.8EB5C1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C00B5E.8EB5C1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251"
------_=_NextPart_001_01C00B5E.8EB5C1E0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Mon Aug 21 7:19:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD4337B42C; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 07:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6D0DA1C69; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:19:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:19:26 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: "Perry E. Metzger" Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Competition Message-ID: <20000821101926.Y65562@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: <200008202212.IAA08232@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> <87d7j3lf4g.fsf@snark.piermont.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <87d7j3lf4g.fsf@snark.piermont.com>; from perry@wasabisystems.com on Sun, Aug 20, 2000 at 06:52:31PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Aug 20, 2000 at 06:52:31PM -0400, Perry E. Metzger wrote: > > This is very true, though fortunately only half-true. The resources > > for doing a quality FreeBSD/sparc port are actually present in the > > community, they're just lying dormant, like gophers in the winter. :) > > You mean "The NetBSD code base is easy enough to copy and call our > own. Why don't we just do it. Surely they aren't going to complain -- > after all, it is all open source. It worked for Alpha, after all." You[NetBSD] put the BSD license on it, not us. > -- > Quality NetBSD Sales, Support & Service. http://www.wasabisystems.com/ Normally I'd suspect a BSDi-sellout-commercialism dig at FreeBSD when these kinds of comments are made, but I guess they can't be made by the NetBSD people anymore[1]... -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect, BOFH / Chimes, Inc. billf@chimesnet.com / billf@FreeBSD.org 1. Unless you make them _before_ announcing your own commercial support. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Mon Aug 21 21: 8:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.osd.bsdi.com (zippy.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6A737B43F; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03308; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:07:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com) To: "Charles M. Hannum" Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Competition In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:33:24 EDT." <200008220233.e7M2XOf02013@lop-nor.ihack.net> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:07:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3305.966917242@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > It's possible that's true -- though frankly it isn't worth my time to > look. However, you *did*, e.g., stand next to me in Monterey and > utter such things as `that's why we [FreeBSD] did an Alpha port' ... And you have to take such remarks in context, Charles. When I say something like this, it's generally in explanation as to why a FreeBSD/alpha port even exists, regardless of who might have written what bits. It would be more accurate but far less wieldy for me to say "that's why we [FreeBSD] did an Alpha port, which by the way was largely done by various members of the NetBSD project in association with Carnegie-Mellon University and subsequently integrated by Andrew Gallatin, Doug Rabson, John Birrell and others." If I absolutely, positively wanted to avoid offending anyone (and I'd probably still leave somebody off and end up doing so anyway), I could be this painfully politically correct but it wouldn't make my speeches any shorter. > That's marginally true, but the fact is that many people expect -- > and, indeed, using a `Berkeley-style' license *require* -- a certain > level of recognition for their work. Which is what the copyright lines are for since nothing else adequately documents the long historical trail of who wrote what. Authors are expected to claim their due recognition through the process of putting "Copyright (c) Joe Hacker" somewhere in the comments at the top of of their source files and most in search of such recognition do so. Just doing a ``more /sys/alpha/alpha/*.c'' will show any newcomer to the BSD world just who authored some of the more key elements of FreeBSD/alpha. Speaking from historical experience, I don't think anyone in the *BSD community goes significantly out of their way to remember or acknowledge all the little details of who did what and that's simply because there are too frickin' many people and groups to remember and acknowledge, not out of spite. The ports collection is a fine example of this since I doubt that anyone over in NetBSD remembers just who came up with it back in August of 1994, at least I've never heard the origins of the "NetBSD packages collection" acknowledged in any NetBSD-related talks I've attended, but that doesn't get my undies in a bunch. Anyone genuinely interested in the origins of things like the ports collection can read the top of bsd.port.mk, see the copyright, and browse the CVS logs (at least in FreeBSD) for the history of its evolution. That's good enough for this author! - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Aug 22 5:57:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from darren2.lnk.telstra.net (darren2.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.53.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78CEF37B423; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 05:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by darren2.lnk.telstra.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id MAA08735; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:57:01 GMT From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <200008221256.WAA09990@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Subject: Re: Competition In-Reply-To: <3305.966917242@localhost> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:07:22 -0700" To: jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:56:24 +1000 (EST) Cc: root@ihack.net, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL37 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Whilst this has gone on long enough, I just want to make one comment here. The person to whom you're replying to in the email ago is allegedly being "blocked" from sending email to freebsd.org and whilst that's fine, it is hardly fitting to reply to such an email in such a way that only select parts of it are made public - sort of like replying to a private email on public lists. IMHO, either that email should be forwarded on or public references (including this one) to it should be deleted. That such filtering of email exists is disgusting in many ways but is not a topic I want to go into since no side is without blame. Darren In some mail from Jordan Hubbard, they said: > > It's possible that's true -- though frankly it isn't worth my time to > > look. However, you *did*, e.g., stand next to me in Monterey and > > utter such things as `that's why we [FreeBSD] did an Alpha port' > > ... And you have to take such remarks in context, Charles. When I say > something like this, it's generally in explanation as to why a > FreeBSD/alpha port even exists, regardless of who might have written > what bits. > > It would be more accurate but far less wieldy for me to say "that's > why we [FreeBSD] did an Alpha port, which by the way was largely done > by various members of the NetBSD project in association with > Carnegie-Mellon University and subsequently integrated by Andrew > Gallatin, Doug Rabson, John Birrell and others." If I absolutely, > positively wanted to avoid offending anyone (and I'd probably still > leave somebody off and end up doing so anyway), I could be this > painfully politically correct but it wouldn't make my speeches any > shorter. > > > That's marginally true, but the fact is that many people expect -- > > and, indeed, using a `Berkeley-style' license *require* -- a certain > > level of recognition for their work. > > Which is what the copyright lines are for since nothing else > adequately documents the long historical trail of who wrote what. > Authors are expected to claim their due recognition through the > process of putting "Copyright (c) Joe Hacker" somewhere in the > comments at the top of of their source files and most in search of > such recognition do so. Just doing a ``more /sys/alpha/alpha/*.c'' > will show any newcomer to the BSD world just who authored some of the > more key elements of FreeBSD/alpha. > > Speaking from historical experience, I don't think anyone in the *BSD > community goes significantly out of their way to remember or > acknowledge all the little details of who did what and that's simply > because there are too frickin' many people and groups to remember and > acknowledge, not out of spite. The ports collection is a fine example > of this since I doubt that anyone over in NetBSD remembers just who > came up with it back in August of 1994, at least I've never heard the > origins of the "NetBSD packages collection" acknowledged in any > NetBSD-related talks I've attended, but that doesn't get my undies in > a bunch. Anyone genuinely interested in the origins of things like > the ports collection can read the top of bsd.port.mk, see the > copyright, and browse the CVS logs (at least in FreeBSD) for the > history of its evolution. That's good enough for this author! > > - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Aug 22 11: 2: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C8A37B422; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 14:02:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Fundakowski Feldman X-Sender: green@green.dyndns.org To: Darren Reed Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , root@ihack.net, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Competition In-Reply-To: <200008221256.WAA09990@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Darren Reed wrote: > > Whilst this has gone on long enough, I just want to make one comment here. > > The person to whom you're replying to in the email ago is allegedly being > "blocked" from sending email to freebsd.org and whilst that's fine, it is > hardly fitting to reply to such an email in such a way that only select > parts of it are made public - sort of like replying to a private email on > public lists. IMHO, either that email should be forwarded on or public > references (including this one) to it should be deleted. Uhm, Darren, where do you see any "blocking" of sending email to freebsd.org? If you mean mail.netbsd.org being blocked by postfix, it's not. If you mean "root@ihack.net" address, it's not, either. Of course, Majordomo isn't doing any blocking. > That such filtering of email exists is disgusting in many ways but is not > a topic I want to go into since no side is without blame. Are you going to be more specific about "filtering"? > Darren -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! / green@FreeBSD.org `------------------------------' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Aug 22 11:19: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from mass.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-63-202-177-115.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.177.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD32737B423; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mass.osd.bsdi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20960; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:32:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.osd.bsdi.com) Message-Id: <200008221832.LAA20960@mass.osd.bsdi.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Brian Fundakowski Feldman Cc: Darren Reed , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , root@ihack.net, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Competition In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Aug 2000 14:02:00 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:32:03 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Whilst this has gone on long enough, I just want to make one comment here. > > > > The person to whom you're replying to in the email ago is allegedly being > > "blocked" from sending email to freebsd.org and whilst that's fine, it is > > hardly fitting to reply to such an email in such a way that only select > > parts of it are made public - sort of like replying to a private email on > > public lists. IMHO, either that email should be forwarded on or public > > references (including this one) to it should be deleted. > > Uhm, Darren, where do you see any "blocking" of sending email to > freebsd.org? If you mean mail.netbsd.org being blocked by postfix, > it's not. If you mean "root@ihack.net" address, it's not, either. Actually, "ihack.net" *is* being blocked. Because it's not set up correctly. Aug 22 00:21:34 hub postfix/smtpd[42146]: connect from r94aag002979.sbo-smr.ma.c able.rcn.com[209.6.183.136] Aug 22 00:21:35 hub postfix/smtpd[42146]: 5567A37B42C: client=r94aag002979.sbo-s mr.ma.cable.rcn.com[209.6.183.136] Aug 22 00:21:37 hub postfix/smtpd[42146]: reject: RCPT from r94aag002979.sbo-smr .ma.cable.rcn.com[209.6.183.136]: 450 : Helo command rejected : Host not found; from= to= I think that someone needs to take an introductory DNS class, and perhaps a class in reading mail headers as well, since each and every one of these would have resulted in a verbose bounce giving the exact cause of the problem. > > That such filtering of email exists is disgusting in many ways but is not > > a topic I want to go into since no side is without blame. > > > > Darren Actually, what this filtering serves to achieve is to reduce the immense amount of spam that you would otherwise receive as a subscriber to the FreeBSD lists. It's an irritating side-effect that people with misconfigured mail setups can't communicate with freebsd.org accounts (this hurts me quite a bit, actually), but I'll trade it for not having to wade through a 20-30% spam quotient in my inbox every morning. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Aug 22 11:46:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6585737B424; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA78194; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:46:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) Message-Id: <200008221846.LAA78194@winston.osd.bsdi.com> To: Darren Reed Cc: jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), root@ihack.net, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Competition In-Reply-To: Message from Darren Reed of "Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:56:24 +1000." <200008221256.WAA09990@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:46:31 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Whilst this has gone on long enough, I just want to make one comment here. Which is time you might have more profitably spent in checking your facts before flying off the handle. Nobody has been explicitly blocked by FreeBSD.org for political reasons, Darren, and you can put your X-Files scenarios back in the box. The volume of spam coming into FreeBSD.org is simply too huge for us not to adopt some basic counter-measures against it, two of those being a subscription to MAPS and the rejection of mail from any site without valid DNS entries. The latter is necessary due to the number of spammers which fit the profile of trying to hide behind the relative anonymity of a rented or outright stolen IP address. It appears that someone simply doesn't know how to configure DNS properly and freebsd.org is hardly the only site which will reject mail from them on that basis; it's a very common spam-prevention technique. Please save your moral indignation and finger shaking for those occasions where they're actually merited. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Aug 22 13:37:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from caffeine.gerp.org (caffeine.gerp.org [216.80.26.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 27B1137B423 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 5374 invoked by uid 100); 22 Aug 2000 20:24:57 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:24:57 -0500 From: "Kevin M. Dulzo" To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Advancing FreeBSD/sparc Message-ID: <20000822152456.A13607@caffeine.gerp.org> Reply-To: kdulzo@gerp.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i X-Operating-System: OpenBSD caffeine 2.7 CAFFEINE Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org So far in the little time I have been able to divert to working on different aspects of this port I have stumbled upon a few issues. The first being the "chosen" platforms to be supported. As I recall, historically this was a sponsored project to bring FreeBSD onto the sparc4u (UltraSparc) family of platforms. After this support was dropped it was mentioned that many only have older sparc4c and sparc4m available to do any work on. I see no reason to exclude older machines from a port of FreeBSD as many of these lunch/pizza boxes can be had rather cheaply and are quite effective at accomplishing tasks. I plan to work heavily on the 4c and 4m initially as a 4u machine is quite out of my reach. The next issue being the approach to get this whole beast moving in any direction at all. Some have pointed the need to get the bootloader and kernel so that a single-user prompt milestone can be reached. Others have pointed to the alpha ports use of the NetBSD kernel and loader to build libc and then userland. Personally, my sparc assembly is a little rusty to say the least and the second option sounds quite within my reach to spend my time on. Another issue had to deal with tracking changes/committing and which branch(es) should be used. I have no idea on this one, current would make the most sense, a majority of my familiarity is in the stable branch. Since there seems to be little activity or mildly off-topic activity my excitement at seeing an 'N' in front of my freebsd-sparc box was quelled. I was hoping we can spawn some quality productive threads to really thrash out ideas with current information and possibly a new zeal. -Kevin P.S. Anyone have any Sparc 5 memory they want to loan or sell me cheaply =) -- :Kevin M. Dulzo:ccna.ccda:freebsd:everything_else: --eyes betray a soul and bear its thinking --beyond words they say so many things to me To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Aug 22 13:57: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 664) id 691A737B43E; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:57:06 -0700 From: David O'Brien To: kdulzo@gerp.org Cc: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Advancing FreeBSD/sparc Message-ID: <20000822135706.C86875@hub.freebsd.org> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org References: <20000822152456.A13607@caffeine.gerp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <20000822152456.A13607@caffeine.gerp.org>; from Kevin M. Dulzo on Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 03:24:57PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 03:24:57PM -0500, Kevin M. Dulzo wrote: > I see no reason to exclude older machines from a port of FreeBSD as > many of these lunch/pizza boxes can be had rather cheaply and are quite > effective at accomplishing tasks. Some disagree about this. > I plan to work heavily on the 4c and 4m initially as a 4u machine is > quite out of my reach. I have offered a few U1/170's loaners (IFF you are actually going to do something to move the FreeBSD/sparc64 port forward). > Another issue had to deal with tracking changes/committing and > which branch(es) should be used. I have no idea on this one, current > would make the most sense, a majority of my familiarity is in the stable > branch. If you want any work done to be folded back into the offical FreeBSD code repository, the work *MUST* be done on -CURRENT. Trying to merge any RELENG_4 kernel work back into -CURRENT would be very painful. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Aug 22 15:58:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from darren2.lnk.telstra.net (darren2.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.53.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC8B37B43C; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by darren2.lnk.telstra.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id WAA10264; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:58:00 GMT From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <200008222257.IAA10574@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Subject: Re: Competition In-Reply-To: <200008221832.LAA20960@mass.osd.bsdi.com> from Mike Smith at "Aug 22, 0 11:32:03 am" To: msmith@FreeBSD.org (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:57:41 +1000 (EST) Cc: green@FreeBSD.org, darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au, jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com, root@ihack.net, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL37 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In some email I received from Mike Smith, sie wrote: > Actually, "ihack.net" *is* being blocked. Because it's not set up > correctly. > > Aug 22 00:21:34 hub postfix/smtpd[42146]: connect from r94aag002979.sbo-smr.ma.c > able.rcn.com[209.6.183.136] > Aug 22 00:21:35 hub postfix/smtpd[42146]: 5567A37B42C: client=r94aag002979.sbo-s > mr.ma.cable.rcn.com[209.6.183.136] > Aug 22 00:21:37 hub postfix/smtpd[42146]: reject: RCPT from r94aag002979.sbo-smr > ..ma.cable.rcn.com[209.6.183.136]: 450 : Helo command rejected > : Host not found; from= to= [...] My apologies to the people behind running the freebsd.org boxes. I had not even entertained the thought that such might be the real problem. Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Aug 22 16:29:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from topperwein.dyndns.org (acs-24-154-5-249.zoominternet.net [24.154.5.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9928437B43E; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by topperwein.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02023; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:30:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from behanna@zbzoom.net) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:30:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris BeHanna Reply-To: behanna@zbzoom.net To: David DeTinne Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: was Competition now mail-lists In-Reply-To: <200008221232290300.011C52D9@web4.allunix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (Warning: off-topic, yet informative, reply follows.) On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, David DeTinne wrote: > > It appears that someone simply doesn't > >know how to configure DNS properly and freebsd.org is hardly the > only > >site which will reject mail from them on that basis; it's a very > >common spam-prevention technique. > > Some of us have no choice, I am using comcast@home cable service and > my email to the lists bounce back to me on a regular basis. Unless Comcast is *massively* braindead, they should have some effed-up DNS entry for the dynamic address they assign to you (e.g., "comcast-24-154-2-196.home.com" or somesuch), and *that* address would, by default, be the address used in the helo dialogue. *That* guy will resolve, and if you point your MUA to comcast@home's designated SMTP box for outgoing mail, you're good to go. If you use your local sendmail, and/or use an MUA that doesn't provide for using an external SMTP server (e.g., mailx or sendmail -t), and have a hostname more to your liking, then that's where you're going to run into trouble, because "davidshost.home.com" isn't going to resolve. A solution, I've found, is to register with a dynamic DNS service, then set your fully-resolved hostname to that, and update it whenever you get DHCP'd to a new IP address. You can do this with ddup in your dhclient exit hook script, for example, or you can check and update by hand. For example, I set up .dyndns.org for my box with the kind folks at dyndns.org, and I use my fully-resolved hostname in my helo dialogue. Because I keep that DNS entry up-to-date, freebsd.org can resolve .dyndns.org, and then I'm good to go. On the few occasions when it burps, I do a sendmail -q and try again, and it usually gets through. If I wished, I could also enter an MX there, but instead I just set my From:, Sender:, and Reply-To: fields to point back to my mailbox at my ISP. There are even some dynamic DNS services that will, for a fee, handle a subdomain or even a domain for you. Usually, they give you a dynamic host for free. (Yes, I'm also a cable-modem user who gets a dynamic IP address.) If you have to (and I don't think you do--my experiments were mixed), you can edit sendmail.cf and crowbar the localhost to use the canonical hostname of your choice. It would of course be better to get a static IP address and then update the DNS entries for my domain to point to it, but my cable modem provider was braindead in setting the pricing structure for that, and if I don't pay them their monthly "hosting" fee, plus an exhorbitant surcharge, they leave ports 1-1024 blocked, and I *still* can't get my mail delivered without outside help (re: either a mail drop somewhere or someone who will forward my mail traffic to me on a high port). This stuff is of course way off-topic for this list. If you have problems, feel free to contact me off-list and I'll do what I can to help you. -- Chris BeHanna Software Engineer (at yourfit.com) behanna@zbzoom.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Aug 23 7:51:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C15FD37B424; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA19974; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:51:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:51:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Mike Smith Cc: Brian Fundakowski Feldman , Darren Reed , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , root@ihack.net, freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Competition In-Reply-To: <200008221832.LAA20960@mass.osd.bsdi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Mike Smith wrote: > Actually, "ihack.net" *is* being blocked. Because it's not set up > correctly. > > Aug 22 00:21:34 hub postfix/smtpd[42146]: connect from r94aag002979.sbo-smr.ma.c > able.rcn.com[209.6.183.136] > Aug 22 00:21:35 hub postfix/smtpd[42146]: 5567A37B42C: client=r94aag002979.sbo-s > mr.ma.cable.rcn.com[209.6.183.136] > Aug 22 00:21:37 hub postfix/smtpd[42146]: reject: RCPT from r94aag002979.sbo-smr > .ma.cable.rcn.com[209.6.183.136]: 450 : Helo command rejected > : Host not found; from= to= Actually, the check of the "helo" field is something I'd like removed: it makes life very difficult for hosts behind NATs without proper SMTP proxies (such as default installs of our natd, which does not include an SMTP proxy :-). It's not possible to send-pr from internal machines behind my NAT without having world-visible DNS names for all my internal machines. RFC 821 doesn't specify criteria under which HELO should be rejected, although it does allow for that possibility with the following errors: HELO S: 250 E: 500, 501, 504, 421 It's useful also to note that 450 is not among them :-). While part of RFC 821 refers to it as a "domain name", the text also refers to it as the "host name" of the sender. I have a rather dim view of NATs based on this kind of problem, but unfortunately NATs are a reality, and there are many hosts mail-delivering behind NATs. :-) I'm fine with the other legitimacy tests--sender email address must resolve, sender host must have a valid reverse/forward lookup pair, etc, but the HELO check causes me a lot of trouble, and no doubt others. Robert N M Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 TIS Labs at Network Associates, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Aug 23 8: 5:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from sentinel.office1.bg (sentinel.office1.bg [195.24.48.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C635037B43F for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 66117 invoked by uid 1001); 23 Aug 2000 15:00:39 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:00:39 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: Robert Watson Cc: Mike Smith , Brian Fundakowski Feldman , Darren Reed , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , root@ihack.net, freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Competition Message-ID: <20000823180039.G63286@ringwraith.office1.bg> References: <200008221832.LAA20960@mass.osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from rwatson@freebsd.org on Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 10:51:03AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 10:51:03AM -0400, Robert Watson wrote: [snip Robert Watson quoting Mike Smith] > > Actually, the check of the "helo" field is something I'd like removed: it > makes life very difficult for hosts behind NATs without proper SMTP > proxies (such as default installs of our natd, which does not include an > SMTP proxy :-). It's not possible to send-pr from internal machines > behind my NAT without having world-visible DNS names for all my internal > machines. So configure your MTA to send the NAT proxy address in the HELO; this might make other MTA's on your LAN unhappy, but the world outside sees a kosher HELO with the exact hostname of the host it's coming from. I don't know how to do this with Sendmail or Postfix; with qmail, all it took was a one-line /var/qmail/control/helohost containing the desired hostname to send. G'luck, Peter -- The rest of this sentence is written in Thailand, on To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Aug 23 8:22:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from goku.cl.msu.edu (goku.cl.msu.edu [35.8.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB2637B422; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dervish@localhost) by goku.cl.msu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29241; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:22:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dervish) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:22:40 -0400 From: Bush Doctor To: "David O'Brien" Cc: kdulzo@gerp.org, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advancing FreeBSD/sparc Message-ID: <20000823112240.A54815@goku.cl.msu.edu> Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , kdulzo@gerp.org, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20000822152456.A13607@caffeine.gerp.org> <20000822135706.C86875@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20000822135706.C86875@hub.freebsd.org>; from obrien@FreeBSD.ORG on Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 01:57:06PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386 WWW-Home-Page: http://bantu.cl.msu.edu Organisation: Information Systems - Michigan State University Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Out of da blue David O'Brien aka (obrien@FreeBSD.ORG) said: > On Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 03:24:57PM -0500, Kevin M. Dulzo wrote: > > I see no reason to exclude older machines from a port of FreeBSD as > > many of these lunch/pizza boxes can be had rather cheaply and are quite > > effective at accomplishing tasks. > > Some disagree about this. > > > I plan to work heavily on the 4c and 4m initially as a 4u machine is > > quite out of my reach. > > I have offered a few U1/170's loaners (IFF you are actually going to do > something to move the FreeBSD/sparc64 port forward). > > > Another issue had to deal with tracking changes/committing and > > which branch(es) should be used. I have no idea on this one, current > > would make the most sense, a majority of my familiarity is in the stable > > branch. > > If you want any work done to be folded back into the offical FreeBSD code > repository, the work *MUST* be done on -CURRENT. Trying to merge any > RELENG_4 kernel work back into -CURRENT would be very painful. Is http://www.freebsd.org/~obrien/freebsd-sparc the official web page for the sparc port? I've also come across Lyndon Griffin freebsd-sparc page at http://bsd4us.org/fsparc/. Both pages were last modified in January 2000. Should one take that as the latest information on the status of the port? > > -- > -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) > #;^) -- f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng. bush doctor To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Aug 23 9: 3:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from goku.cl.msu.edu (goku.cl.msu.edu [35.8.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70E3637B424 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dervish@localhost) by goku.cl.msu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA53274; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:03:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dervish) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:03:10 -0400 From: Bush Doctor To: Mark Tempel Cc: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <20000823120310.B54815@goku.cl.msu.edu> Mail-Followup-To: Mark Tempel , freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org References: <200008161257240540.004B7EAE@web4.allunix.com> <20000816220840.H1056@freebie.demon.nl> <005c01c007e7$38cc3240$49ec62d1@dirac> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <005c01c007e7$38cc3240$49ec62d1@dirac>; from mtempel@visi.com on Wed, Aug 16, 2000 at 08:05:23PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386 WWW-Home-Page: http://bantu.cl.msu.edu Organisation: Information Systems - Michigan State University Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Out of da blue Mark Tempel aka (mtempel@visi.com) said: > > On Wed, Aug 16, 2000 at 12:57:24PM -0700, David DeTinne wrote: > > > Is the sparc port really dead? > > > > > > I have tried the other BSD's and from an average users standpoint FreeBSD is > the best > > > (my opinion) > > > > > > If a developer needs a machine I will donate my IPX to get it going. > > > > AFAIK the project SPARC port of FreeBSD was destined for UltraSPARCs only. > > But that is about all I have ever heard/seen about it. > > I have never heard a definitive answer regarding which architecture FreeBSD > Sparc will support. I would guess that it will run on Sparc 4 machines if > the developers who port it have sparc 4 machines. If the developers get > access to UltraSPARC machines, then it will run there... > > I can say that I only have a SS20 to try to port this OS with so what ever I can > accomplish will run on Sparc 4m architecture machines... > > A few months ago I decided to try to port over the loader from FreeBSD > 4.x to Sparc. However I also decided to get married... > Both the loader and the wedding are alot harder and more time consuming > than I had expected... > > As soon as I get done with my thank you notes *sigh* I will be working on > porting the loader again... Hello, Just a wondering do you have a patch set available? I work with -current and I have either a SS4/110 or SS5/170 to work with (I need one to run NetBSD) I snagged an unused (at this time) Ultra 5. I just don't know if I'll be able to keep it as a development box. How ever, if I start hacking on it maybe I can. I also have a co-worker who would be interested in helping out. Maybe we can get something rolling ... > > > Mark Tempel > #;^) -- f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng. bush doctor To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Aug 23 15:38:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (obie.softweyr.com [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 186E237B42C; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from softweyr.com ([208.187.122.225]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19867; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:38:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <39A4540C.BFD7BF14@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:45:32 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.1-RC i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: kdulzo@gerp.org, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advancing FreeBSD/sparc References: <20000822152456.A13607@caffeine.gerp.org> <20000822135706.C86875@hub.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David O'Brien wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 03:24:57PM -0500, Kevin M. Dulzo wrote: > > I see no reason to exclude older machines from a port of FreeBSD as > > many of these lunch/pizza boxes can be had rather cheaply and are quite > > effective at accomplishing tasks. > > Some disagree about this. Given the overall quality of both NetBSD and OpenBSD on these systems, the urgent need for a FreeBSD port is diminished greatly. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Aug 23 16:45:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (obie.softweyr.com [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05A0A37B5AF; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from softweyr.com ([208.187.122.225]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19935; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:44:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <39A4637A.4186981B@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:51:22 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.1-RC i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Darren Reed , mjacob@feral.com, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Integration of Net/OpenBSD code (was Re: your mail) References: <98351.966803341@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > I also think the Alpha port was an important step for the project in > that it got us 64 bit clean well before the IA64 arrived and it > validated the concept that we could do something non-x86 based on an > ongoing basis. For the network appliance market, a important and > growing segment of what some of FreeBSD's core "PC interest group" is > morphing into, we need to get onto architectures like MIPS, PowerPC > and StrongARM and doing any sorts of non-x86 ports are good practice > for this. Yes, yes, yes. The order of importance varies widely, but the above three would pretty much cover the bases. Anyone interested in doing this kind of work full-time should contact me. Or BSDi, probably. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Aug 23 18:40:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from teru.dyndns.org (c1051739-a.almda1.sfba.home.com [24.16.60.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D84637B424; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from teru.dyndns.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teru.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA82356; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:40:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ace@teru.dyndns.org) Message-Id: <200008240140.SAA82356@teru.dyndns.org> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:40:21 -0700 (PDT) From: shade@dnai.com, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR Subject: Re: Advancing FreeBSD/sparc To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Cc: kdulzo@gerp.org, obrien@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; BOUNDARY="0-1804289383-967081233=:82353" Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --0-1804289383-967081233=:82353 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hey... I am not a programmer (currently trying to learn), but I have access to about 10 sparc 5s (70MHz and 85MHz), and a dual-cpu sparc 20 (2x 75MHz). I probably can't help much with the actual programming, but I would be happy to test things, and if someone developing stuff would like an account it can be arranged, just email me. -Adam --0-1804289383-967081233=:82353 Content-Type: APPLICATION/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBOaR9DKxW6fKFlSm9AQHpDAQAhqSTSCWx/+nZA/vqBwWryuCwUWmLaVTX m311XrEprcAsabxOeViIL7CwmrbRjYXimtm37KI6xF2CVVUdHhC/HDgYGUNB8rEc DmRuCQiPvKGtVc/lBJNhVbA5DOQdm5Yh8by+r5GASArQ2wQVkOQnY+T52Nj0a6Ek L6PxRldveGw= =MaKp -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --0-1804289383-967081233=:82353-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Aug 23 18:56: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.chuckr.org (picnic.chuckr.org [216.254.96.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6A0637B424; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.chuckr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA98224; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 21:55:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.chuckr.org) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 21:55:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Darren Reed Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , root@ihack.net, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Competition In-Reply-To: <200008221256.WAA09990@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Darren Reed wrote: > > Whilst this has gone on long enough, I just want to make one comment here. > > The person to whom you're replying to in the email ago is allegedly being > "blocked" from sending email to freebsd.org and whilst that's fine, it is > hardly fitting to reply to such an email in such a way that only select > parts of it are made public - sort of like replying to a private email on > public lists. IMHO, either that email should be forwarded on or public > references (including this one) to it should be deleted. > > That such filtering of email exists is disgusting in many ways but is not > a topic I want to go into since no side is without blame. > > Darren Darren, if you're saying that you're unhappy that some folks who really want to disrupt the list with endless non-productivce haranguing are blocked, that's too bad. I think everyone should get the right to be heard, but heard ONCE. If they aren't agreed with, that's too damned bad, and if you can't accept that your ideas aren't the most popular, then you should learn to accept being blocked. This is a community communications channel, and can be very effectively blocked by a few loud screamers. I have personally been on the losing side of some battles; I hope I showed that I know how to give up in a timely manner. If you can't learn to give up, then you SHOULD be disallowed usage of this important venue. No channel that is run without at least some manner of self control will survive. State your opinions, then step back, it's someone else's turn. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include C & Java programming, FreeBSD, chuckr@picnic.chuckr.org| electronics, communications, and signal processing. New Year's Resolution: I will not sphroxify gullible people into looking up fictitious words in the dictionary. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Aug 24 3:28:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAED437B424; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 03:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16479; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 03:28:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: Wes Peters Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Darren Reed , mjacob@feral.com, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Integration of Net/OpenBSD code (was Re: your mail) In-Reply-To: Message from Wes Peters of "Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:51:22 MDT." <39A4637A.4186981B@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 03:28:01 -0700 Message-ID: <16475.967112881@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Yes, yes, yes. The order of importance varies widely, but the above > three would pretty much cover the bases. Anyone interested in doing OK, and in what order would you personally rank them? [jkh puts Wes on the spot with a question he's still trying to answer for himself]. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Aug 24 13:15:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC5D37B423; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05591; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAROaGWk; Thu Aug 24 13:13:46 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13863; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:14:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200008242014.NAA13863@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Integration of Net/OpenBSD code (was Re: your mail) To: darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au (Darren Reed) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 20:14:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), mjacob@feral.com, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200008200842.SAA07457@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> from "Darren Reed" at Aug 20, 2000 06:42:42 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > If people are saying the x86 part of FreeBSD is weakening (some > say since the adoption of alpha) I don't think it is a good idea > to start (or promote) work on a sparc port. I would, in fact, like hard statistics and documentation of the measuring syystem(s) used to achieve this conclusion. Without this, the statement that the x86 port is being "hurt" by other platforms is nothing more than unsupported FUD. > Personally, I think it is more important for FreeBSD to concentrate > on getting IA-64 (and AMD 64bit) support happening than for sparc64 > and that sparc64 is a waste of time/effort for FreeBSD. Concentrate > on what FreeBSD is good at doing and don't get distracted. FreeBSD is code, not a human being. It does not "concentrate". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message