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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 3 1:34:21 2001 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 3 01:34:18 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF6CA37B400 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 01:34:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f039XWN04045; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 09:33:32 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 09:33:32 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: bret@lextext.com Subject: Important error in re BSD license in http://www.webtechniques.com/archives/2001/01/legal/ Message-ID: <20010103093332.A1410@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bret, [ I'm bcc:'ing the FreeBSD advocacy mailing list for information ] I've just finished reading your interesting article at http://www.webtechniques.com/archives/2001/01/legal/ About half way through you say: But GNU is by no means the only development effort that asks its members to do this. Development for BSD, Linux, Apache, and Mozilla, to name a prominent few, all have their own unique restrictions, though each would properly call itself an open-source development effort. And each requires that its license be passed forward onto any future improvements or developments incorporating work published under its license. Your last sentance is emphatically *not* true for the BSD and Apache licenses. The original BSD license can be seen at http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/license.html As you can see, there are four points that must be followed. None of those points say anything about "Alterations to this code must be published under the same license". The license that the majority of FreeBSD is published under can be seen at http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/freebsd-license.html As you can see, we've dropped the last two clauses from the original four clause BSD license. Third parties are free to take code from FreeBSD (and Net/OpenBSD) and use it in their own products. They are free to alter the code, and keep those alterations proprietry, with no requirement to donate their changes back. For example, Juniper networks did just that with JUNOS, the operating system in their range of routers. See http://www.juniper.net/techcenter/techpapers/200003-01.html for more information. Apache is distributed under a license that is similar to the original BSD license, but with an additional clause; it can be seen at http://www.apache.org/LICENSE.txt Again, there is no requirement for anyone making changes to the Apache code to make their changes open. This requirement to publish changes (in the case of the GPL) or not (in the case of the BSD and similar licenses) is the main cause of friction between to the two camps. Hope that's helpful. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 6 17:20:28 2001 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 6 17:20:11 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE87C37B400 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 17:20:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id F41A76A911; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:50:08 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:50:08 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD advocacy list , OpenBSD-advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: TwoCows articles on BSD (was: Someone please flame TwoCows) Message-ID: <20010107115008.F97330@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This came from the NetBSD advocacy list. There are articles on all three BSDs there, with some factual errors (the biggest one I saw was that they claim all three systems have a GPL licence). On the other hand, it's intended to be positive, and we shouldn't follow Hubert's lead and flame the author. Instead, it would be nice if as many people as possible sent him messages correcting factual errors (but without saying "My BSD is better than his BSD"). Greg ----- Forwarded message from hubert@feyrer.de ----- > Delivered-To: grog@lemis.com > Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 08:51:20 +0100 (MET) > To: > Precedence: list > Delivered-To: netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG > > > ... for this: http://bsd.tucows.com/conhtml/preview/74141.html > > > - Hubert > > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 6 22:31: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CBD37B6A6 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14F9RW-0000NI-00; Sat, 06 Jan 2001 23:36:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3A580E76.7DF3A8A4@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 23:36:38 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list , OpenBSD-advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: TwoCows articles on BSD (was: Someone please flame TwoCows) References: <20010107115008.F97330@wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: % % This came from the NetBSD advocacy list. There are articles on all % three BSDs there, with some factual errors (the biggest one I saw was % that they claim all three systems have a GPL licence). On the other % hand, it's intended to be positive, and we shouldn't follow Hubert's % lead and flame the author. Instead, it would be nice if as many % people as possible sent him messages correcting factual errors (but % without saying "My BSD is better than his BSD"). Flaming is not likely to help much. Patiently and politely explaining might. My response, typed terribly into their itty-bitty response box: > NetBSD, OpenBSD, FreeBSD under GPL? Heaven forbid! > Just to avoid confusion, I'll paste in the license > from this FreeBSD system: > > * Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1993 > * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. > * > * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without > * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions > * are met: > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the > * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. > * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software > * must display the following acknowledgement: > * This product includes software developed by the University of > * California, Berkeley and its contributors. > * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors > * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software > * without specific prior written permission. > * > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND > * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE > * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE > * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE > * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL > * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS > * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) > * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT > * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF > * SUCH DAMAGE. > > Sure enough, nothing in there about "you must > give away everything you work on," "this license > virally attaches itself to every piece of software > in comes on contact with," or any other GPL-like > clauses. Must not be the GPL. > > This is often know as a "Berkeley" license, and it > allows you to do with the software as you choose. > Kirk McKusick, the keeper of the flame at UC Berkeley > these days, refers to it as the "copycenter" as in > "take it down to the copycenter and make as many > copies as you wish. > > Thanks for noticing, and please don't hesitate to ask > if you need clarification on points like this in the > future. Feel free to consult one or more of the > following mailing lists (in alphabetical order): > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org > advocacy@openbsd.org > > The bright, cheery BSD advocates there will be happy to > help with BSD licensing, history, and community > questions. If someone else would like to point the author at a web article or two explaining the difference between the GPL and Berkeley licenses, and another point him to the "Open Source" acceptance of the 2-clause license, perhaps we'll have him gently educated. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 6 23:22:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF8F37B7A7 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 23:04:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 5494F6A90D; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:33:59 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:33:59 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list , advocacy@openbsd.org, NetBSD-advocacy@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: TwoCows articles on BSD (was: Someone please flame TwoCows) Message-ID: <20010107173359.D52707@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20010107115008.F97330@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3A580E76.7DF3A8A4@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A580E76.7DF3A8A4@softweyr.com>; from wes@softweyr.com on Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 11:36:38PM -0700 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 6 January 2001 at 23:36:38 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> This came from the NetBSD advocacy list. There are articles on all >> three BSDs there, with some factual errors (the biggest one I saw was >> that they claim all three systems have a GPL licence). On the other >> hand, it's intended to be positive, and we shouldn't follow Hubert's >> lead and flame the author. Instead, it would be nice if as many >> people as possible sent him messages correcting factual errors (but >> without saying "My BSD is better than his BSD"). > > Flaming is not likely to help much. Patiently and politely explaining > might. My response, typed terribly into their itty-bitty response box: > >> NetBSD, OpenBSD, FreeBSD under GPL? Heaven forbid! >> Just to avoid confusion, I'll paste in the license >> from this FreeBSD system: >> >> * Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1993 >> * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. >> * >> >> * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software >> * must display the following acknowledgement: >> * This product includes software developed by the University of >> * California, Berkeley and its contributors. Oops. This one is dead. >> Sure enough, nothing in there about "you must >> give away everything you work on," "this license >> virally attaches itself to every piece of software >> in comes on contact with," or any other GPL-like >> clauses. Must not be the GPL. >> >> This is often know as a "Berkeley" license, and it >> allows you to do with the software as you choose. >> Kirk McKusick, the keeper of the flame at UC Berkeley >> these days, refers to it as the "copycenter" as in >> "take it down to the copycenter and make as many >> copies as you wish. >> >> Thanks for noticing, and please don't hesitate to ask >> if you need clarification on points like this in the >> future. Feel free to consult one or more of the >> following mailing lists (in alphabetical order): >> >> freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org >> netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org >> advocacy@openbsd.org >> >> The bright, cheery BSD advocates there will be happy to >> help with BSD licensing, history, and community >> questions. > > If someone else would like to point the author at a web article or two > explaining the difference between the GPL and Berkeley licenses, and > another point him to the "Open Source" acceptance of the 2-clause > license, perhaps we'll have him gently educated. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message