From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jan 28 18:57:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 221E937B402 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:56:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id n.dd.f79e205 (4592) for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:56:43 -0500 (EST) From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:56:43 EST Subject: awesome for freebsd To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 59 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hey guys if this does not prove that freebsd is rock solid OS than i do not know what will: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html everyone on this list should go to this site! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jan 28 19:11: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39EB637B400 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:10:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id n.4e.10bdb208 (4592) for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:10:41 -0500 (EST) From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com Message-ID: <4e.10bdb208.27a63930@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:10:40 EST Subject: amazing :-) To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 59 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hey guys just check this out for me please: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html if you go to that site you will be amazed it will make any FreeBSD advocate happy for days To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 29 9:26:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from web1.renley.com (unknown [210.176.231.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2583B37B69B; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:25:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from 210.176.231.28 (unverified [203.149.188.102]) by web1.renley.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.2) with SMTP id ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:34:00 +0800 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:34:00 +0800 Message-ID: Reply-To: l705723712@yahoo.com From: l705723712@yahoo.com To: 20guido@freebsd.org Subject:狂人資訊軟體更新資訊 本次新增一百三十多片．．．．．．狂人資訊軟體更新資訊狂人資訊軟體更新資訊 本次新增一百三十多片．．．狂人資訊軟體更新資訊 本次新增一百三十多片．． MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 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Reed" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Infoworld Unix reviews Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I read a short article in January 15's Infoworld ("Six flavors run the gamut: The good, the bad, and the ugly"). It didn't mention BSD, but quickly ranked a few "Unix" systems: Irix, AIX, Tru64, HPUX, UnixWare, and Solaris. I am curious about some of the statements and opinions -- and I am seeking some further comments in regards to comparing with the BSDs. For example, they tested 10 "corporate" applications and the systems scored between 0 out of 10 and 10 out of 10. These applications are: Oracle 8i database, IBM WebSphere Application Server, Adobe FrameMaker 6, iPlanet Enterprise Web Server, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Sybase ASE, Lotus Domino, ChiliSoft ASP, Vitria BusinessWare and SAP. Which of these applications run (non-native or native) under a BSD? Also, I am interested in opinions -- which of these applications are important and which don't matter? The review also mentioned "Standard" and they all were either Unix 95 or Unix 98. Does this matter to the BSDs? Or what does this mean to developers beginning with BSDs? How do the (non-official-Unix) BSD's compare in regards to these Unix 95/98 standards? Any examples? Some advantages and disadvantages listed included: - scales to 512 CPUs and 1TB of ram - 64-bit CPUs "are solid performers at deceptively low clock speeds" - ultra-fast server I/O subsystems - Linux source code portability - "inscrutable" manuals and support documents - "borrows pieces from several Unix implementations to create a versatile, broadly compatible operating environment" - "holes in System V compatibility make application porting difficult" Any thoughts in regards to BSDs? Basically, I am looking for ideas on how I can promote BSD using some of these examples. (I want to develop some strong arguments for BSD in comparison with "official" Unix's.) I just found the article online at http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/fixup.pl?story=http://www.infoworld.com/articles/tc/xml/01/01/15/010115tcunix.xml&dctag=operatingsystems Jeremy C. Reed http://www.reedmedia.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 30 23:49:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC97B37B69B for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:49:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f0V7mwF55422; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:48:58 GMT (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Jeremy C. Reed" , Subject: RE: Infoworld Unix reviews Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:49:14 -0800 Message-ID: <00bf01c08b5a$4eb24f80$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Jeremy C. Reed > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:09 PM > To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Infoworld Unix reviews > > > I read a short article in January 15's Infoworld ("Six flavors run the > gamut: The good, the bad, and the ugly"). It didn't mention BSD, but > quickly ranked a few "Unix" systems: Irix, AIX, Tru64, HPUX, UnixWare, and > Solaris. > > I am curious about some of the statements and opinions -- and I am seeking > some further comments in regards to comparing with the BSDs. > > For example, they tested 10 "corporate" applications and the systems > scored between 0 out of 10 and 10 out of 10. These applications are: > Oracle 8i database, IBM WebSphere Application Server, Adobe FrameMaker 6, > iPlanet Enterprise Web Server, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Sybase ASE, > Lotus Domino, ChiliSoft ASP, Vitria BusinessWare and SAP. > To kind of understand where they are coming from and how their article fits in with the Open Source operating systems, you really have to look at the overall UNIX market, including both Linux and FreeBSD and the rest of them. As we all know, Linux is out there on a _very_ large number of systems. Now, it's very debatable how many Windows installations have been displaced by Linux. Obviously, the Linux people would like to say millions, but I have my doubts as to whether those non-Microsoft servers and desktops would really have bene running Windows if Linux wasn't available. After all, years before Linux or FreeBSD existed, OS2 was going very strong - even won InfoWorld's Software-of-the-year award in 1995, the year Win95 was released. But, there is no question that a _significant_ number of _commercial_ UNIX's have been displaced. One casualty that immediately comes to mind is SCO - how many of us have seen a small business SCO server recently? Yet, in many ways the Open Source UNIX revolution has been responsible for a rebirth of UNIX among the commercial UNIX vendors. So, faced with increasng encroachment of the low-end workstation UNIX systems on one had, yet an increased interest in UNIX on the other, the commercial UNIX vendors have gone the only route left open to them - they have pushed into the high-end mainframe market that used to be the exclusive domain of IBM, and other old-line computer companies most of us have never heard of. People running 512 CPU's and terabytes of RAM are NOT in the PC server market, which is where FreeBSD and Linux is today. This article, listing apps like Sybase, Oracle, Domino, and SAP is clearly aimed at the very high-end, multiprocessing, multiuser mainframe UNIX market where these commercial UNIX vendors are all players. > Which of these applications run (non-native or native) under a BSD? Also, > I am interested in opinions -- which of these applications are important > and which don't matter? > > The review also mentioned "Standard" and they all were either Unix 95 or > Unix 98. Does this matter to the BSDs? Or what does this mean to > developers beginning with BSDs? How do the (non-official-Unix) BSD's > compare in regards to these Unix 95/98 standards? Any examples? > > Some advantages and disadvantages listed included: > - scales to 512 CPUs and 1TB of ram > - 64-bit CPUs "are solid performers at deceptively low clock speeds" > - ultra-fast server I/O subsystems > - Linux source code portability > - "inscrutable" manuals and support documents > - "borrows pieces from several Unix implementations to create a > versatile, broadly compatible operating environment" > - "holes in System V compatibility make application porting difficult" > > Any thoughts in regards to BSDs? > We are seeing a "creeping" effect with BSD. Today, BSD is prevalent on the uniprocessor PC servers, your talking anything from lowly 486's to P3's. There is some movement into multiprocessing PC servers, but few companies are producing standard PC hardware that will hold more than 4 CPU's. This is because Windows NT's performance increases drop off after 4 CPU's. There are a few large-scale FreeBSD sites, Yahoo and Hotmail come to mind, but they are not the norm. Because of the tremendous power increases of PC server hardware in the last few years, PC servers are creeping more into use with tasks that used to be relegated to high-end custom UNIX hardware. BSD is creeping into this market just as these servers are spreading into this market. As the higher-end UNIX hardware becomes more of a commodity, and we start seeing regular use of 8-way and higher standard systems, your going to see some erosion of the high-end Solaris and other UNIX'es to increasing use of FreeBSD. Of course, at the same time those systems are going to be moving into the 1000-cpu systems and even larger. > Basically, I am looking for ideas on how I can promote BSD using some of > these examples. (I want to develop some strong arguments for BSD in > comparison with "official" Unix's.) > There are some serious problems with developing an argument for FreeBSD verses Solaris (for example) along these lines that you would have to overcome. Here's the ones that I fel exist: 1) Cost used to be cited as the major criteria, but with the release of Solaris 8 and it's new pricing structure (essentially free for up to 4 CPU's) the importance of this is greatly diminished. 2) As you get into the higher and higher end UNIX applications, you start to see some very strong preferences from the app vendors. Take Oracle, for example. If all your doing is setting up an Oracle server for 200 users, if you call Oracle they will say "Use whatever you want, Linux, NT, Sun, whatever) But, if you were setting up an Oracle server for 2 million users, they would say "Run it on Solaris" 3) "UNIX Standards" is a red herring. Most people that run the apps that you mention start out by picking the app, then seeing what OS that their install is the most well supported under. Few consumers know or care about UNIX standards. This is a technical argument reserved for developers. 4) The war is over UNIX vs NT/Win2K. It's not over BSD vs Sun. The largest problem that people have is bringing the CEO's and other non-technical types over to the UNIX camp. The arguments you use saying how much better FreeBSD is over NT are essentially arguments over how much better UNIX is over NT. They are usually applicable to ALL UNIX's, not just FreeBSD. Once you've won the non-technical types over, they quickly lose interest in which UNIX it is that they have bought off on. If you really want to "develop some strong arguments for BSD in comparison with "official" Unix's" your going to have to leave the applications arena and focus on purely technical arguments, like how fast is the disk I/O, etc. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > I just found the article online at > http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/fixup.pl?story=http://www.infowor ld.com/articles/tc/xml/01/01/15/010115tcunix.xml&dctag=operatingsystems Jeremy C. Reed http://www.reedmedia.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 31 11:21:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BEF237B684 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA18BF; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:25:25 -0800 Message-ID: <3A7864E9.8356D209@acuson.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:18:01 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Infoworld Unix reviews References: <00bf01c08b5a$4eb24f80$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > Now, it's very debatable how many Windows installations have been displaced > by Linux. Obviously, the Linux people would like to say millions, but > I have my doubts as to whether those non-Microsoft servers and desktops > would really have bene running Windows if Linux wasn't available. It don't think Linux or BSD have actually *displaced* NT off of a significant number of installations. But they may have made huge inroads into the "small" server market at the expense of NT. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 31 13: 6:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop3pub.verizon.net (smtppop3pub.gte.net [206.46.170.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17AB37B69B for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:05:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from gte.net (evrtwa1-ar4-4-34-145-186.dsl.gtei.net [4.34.145.186]) by smtppop3pub.verizon.net with ESMTP ; id PAA110766637 Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:01:14 -0600 (CST) Received: (from res03db2@localhost) by gte.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA44955; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:05:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from res03db2@gte.net) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:05:49 -0800 From: Robert Clark To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: "Jeremy C. Reed" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Infoworld Unix reviews Message-ID: <20010131130549.A44924@darkstar.gte.net> References: <00bf01c08b5a$4eb24f80$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <00bf01c08b5a$4eb24f80$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>; from tedm@toybox.placo.com on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 11:49:14PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 11:49:14PM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Jeremy C. Reed > > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:09 PM > > To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Infoworld Unix reviews > > > > > > I read a short article in January 15's Infoworld ("Six flavors run the > > gamut: The good, the bad, and the ugly"). It didn't mention BSD, but > > quickly ranked a few "Unix" systems: Irix, AIX, Tru64, HPUX, UnixWare, and > > Solaris. > > > > I am curious about some of the statements and opinions -- and I am seeking > > some further comments in regards to comparing with the BSDs. > > > > For example, they tested 10 "corporate" applications and the systems > > scored between 0 out of 10 and 10 out of 10. These applications are: > > Oracle 8i database, IBM WebSphere Application Server, Adobe FrameMaker 6, > > iPlanet Enterprise Web Server, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Sybase ASE, > > Lotus Domino, ChiliSoft ASP, Vitria BusinessWare and SAP. > > > > To kind of understand where they are coming from and how their article fits > in with the Open Source operating systems, you really have to look at the > overall UNIX market, including both Linux and FreeBSD and the rest of them. > > As we all know, Linux is out there on a _very_ large number of systems. How many boxes has Linux saved from the dumpster? How does this affect the whole market? Windows puts machines into the dumpster, and Linux pulls them out? How many (exclusively Linux) people will apply to a posted sysadmin job? What has that done to the sysadmin job market? What will it do? > > Now, it's very debatable how many Windows installations have been displaced > by Linux. Obviously, the Linux people would like to say millions, but > I have my doubts as to whether those non-Microsoft servers and desktops > would really have bene running Windows if Linux wasn't available. After > all, > years before Linux or FreeBSD existed, OS2 was going very strong - even won > InfoWorld's Software-of-the-year award in 1995, the year Win95 was released. > > But, there is no question that a _significant_ number of _commercial_ > UNIX's have been displaced. One casualty that immediately comes to mind > is SCO - how many of us have seen a small business SCO server recently? How many really good (commercial) UNIX variants does the market need? Is SCO proof that commercial UNIX and open hardware don't mix? > > Yet, in many ways the Open Source UNIX revolution has been responsible > for a rebirth of UNIX among the commercial UNIX vendors. > > So, faced with increasng encroachment of the low-end workstation UNIX > systems > on one had, yet an increased interest in UNIX on the other, the commercial > UNIX vendors have gone the only route left open to them - they have pushed > into the high-end mainframe market that used to be the exclusive domain of > IBM, and other old-line computer companies most of us have never heard of. Midrange systems are growing faster all the time. But they are doing so with "PC" technology. PCI is everywhere. It might be arguable, that the PC hardware has eaten up the market. Economy of scale? > > People running 512 CPU's and terabytes of RAM are NOT in the PC server > market, which is where FreeBSD and Linux is today. This article, listing > apps like Sybase, Oracle, Domino, and SAP is clearly aimed at the very > high-end, multiprocessing, multiuser mainframe UNIX market where these > commercial UNIX vendors are all players. Mid range systems are SMP, because its a way to make incrementally faster systems, without having to rewrite software for a distributed system. Will SMT replace SMP? It has many of the advanteges without some of the pitfalls. > > > Which of these applications run (non-native or native) under a BSD? Also, > > I am interested in opinions -- which of these applications are important > > and which don't matter? > > > > The review also mentioned "Standard" and they all were either Unix 95 or > > Unix 98. Does this matter to the BSDs? Or what does this mean to > > developers beginning with BSDs? How do the (non-official-Unix) BSD's > > compare in regards to these Unix 95/98 standards? Any examples? > > > > Some advantages and disadvantages listed included: > > - scales to 512 CPUs and 1TB of ram > > - 64-bit CPUs "are solid performers at deceptively low clock speeds" > > - ultra-fast server I/O subsystems > > - Linux source code portability > > - "inscrutable" manuals and support documents > > - "borrows pieces from several Unix implementations to create a > > versatile, broadly compatible operating environment" > > - "holes in System V compatibility make application porting difficult" > > > > Any thoughts in regards to BSDs? > > > > We are seeing a "creeping" effect with BSD. Today, BSD is prevalent on > the uniprocessor PC servers, your talking anything from lowly 486's to > P3's. There is some movement into multiprocessing PC servers, but few > companies are producing standard PC hardware that will hold more than > 4 CPU's. This is because Windows NT's performance increases drop off > after 4 CPU's. There are a few large-scale FreeBSD sites, Yahoo and > Hotmail come to mind, but they are not the norm. > > Because of the tremendous power increases of PC server hardware in the > last few years, PC servers are creeping more into use with tasks that > used to be relegated to high-end custom UNIX hardware. BSD is creeping > into this market just as these servers are spreading into this market. High end UNIX hardware is becoming more homogenous? High end UNIX hardware is becoming less custom? > > As the higher-end UNIX hardware becomes more of a commodity, and we start > seeing regular use of 8-way and higher standard systems, your going to see > some erosion of the high-end Solaris and other UNIX'es to increasing use > of FreeBSD. Of course, at the same time those systems are going to be > moving into the 1000-cpu systems and even larger. > > > Basically, I am looking for ideas on how I can promote BSD using some of > > these examples. (I want to develop some strong arguments for BSD in > > comparison with "official" Unix's.) > > > > There are some serious problems with developing an argument for FreeBSD > verses Solaris (for example) along these lines that you would have > to overcome. Here's the ones that I fel exist: > > 1) Cost used to be cited as the major criteria, but with the release of > Solaris 8 and it's new pricing structure (essentially free for up to 4 > CPU's) the importance of this is greatly diminished. > > 2) As you get into the higher and higher end UNIX applications, you start > to see some very strong preferences from the app vendors. Take Oracle, > for example. If all your doing is setting up an Oracle server for > 200 users, if you call Oracle they will say "Use whatever you want, Linux, > NT, Sun, whatever) But, if you were setting up an Oracle server for > 2 million users, they would say "Run it on Solaris" > > 3) "UNIX Standards" is a red herring. Most people that run the apps that > you mention start out by picking the app, then seeing what OS that their > install is the most well supported under. Few consumers know or care about > UNIX standards. This is a technical argument reserved for developers. > > 4) The war is over UNIX vs NT/Win2K. It's not over BSD vs Sun. The largest > problem that people have is bringing the CEO's and other non-technical types > over to the UNIX camp. The arguments you use saying how much better FreeBSD > is over NT are essentially arguments over how much better UNIX is over NT. > They are usually applicable to ALL UNIX's, not just FreeBSD. Once > you've won the non-technical types over, they quickly lose interest in > which UNIX it is that they have bought off on. > > If you really want to "develop some strong arguments for BSD in > comparison with "official" Unix's" your going to have to leave the > applications arena and focus on purely technical arguments, like how > fast is the disk I/O, etc. Or grow a killer-app that uses many low cost computers to its advantage. > > > Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com > Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide > Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > > > I just found the article online at > > http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/fixup.pl?story=http://www.infowor > ld.com/articles/tc/xml/01/01/15/010115tcunix.xml&dctag=operatingsystems > > Jeremy C. Reed > http://www.reedmedia.net/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 31 13:33:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop3pub.verizon.net (smtppop3pub.gte.net [206.46.170.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7139137B6A1 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:33:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from gte.net (evrtwa1-ar4-4-34-145-186.dsl.gtei.net [4.34.145.186]) by smtppop3pub.verizon.net with ESMTP ; id PAA111117079 Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:28:45 -0600 (CST) Received: (from res03db2@localhost) by gte.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA44984; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:33:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from res03db2@gte.net) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:33:23 -0800 From: Robert Clark To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Infoworld Unix reviews Message-ID: <20010131133323.B44924@darkstar.gte.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: ; from reed@reedmedia.net on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 11:09:02PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 11:09:02PM -0800, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > I read a short article in January 15's Infoworld ("Six flavors run the > gamut: The good, the bad, and the ugly"). It didn't mention BSD, but > quickly ranked a few "Unix" systems: Irix, AIX, Tru64, HPUX, UnixWare, and > Solaris. > > I am curious about some of the statements and opinions -- and I am seeking > some further comments in regards to comparing with the BSDs. > > For example, they tested 10 "corporate" applications and the systems > scored between 0 out of 10 and 10 out of 10. These applications are: > Oracle 8i database, IBM WebSphere Application Server, Adobe FrameMaker 6, > iPlanet Enterprise Web Server, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Sybase ASE, > Lotus Domino, ChiliSoft ASP, Vitria BusinessWare and SAP. Websphere is IBM pimping a fat Apache bundle for all its worth. Buying Websphere saves you the trouble of putting all the pieces together. 8i and ASE are two of the major Databases on the market. Its all about simultaneity. When some business function gets huge, you have to put its data somewhere. Database vendors now grok threading to a degree. But they all do it differently. If I need a place to store a 10TB database, what am I going to do? If databases had the ability to be spread across systems, then a rack of small servers might make sense. In that case, FreeBSD would make sense. Do existing database software vendors have any incentive to sell their product for cheap hardware? Seems like that would devalue their product. > > Which of these applications run (non-native or native) under a BSD? Also, > I am interested in opinions -- which of these applications are important > and which don't matter? > > The review also mentioned "Standard" and they all were either Unix 95 or > Unix 98. Does this matter to the BSDs? Or what does this mean to > developers beginning with BSDs? How do the (non-official-Unix) BSD's > compare in regards to these Unix 95/98 standards? Any examples? > > Some advantages and disadvantages listed included: > - scales to 512 CPUs and 1TB of ram Good for sales. > - 64-bit CPUs "are solid performers at deceptively low clock speeds" Bigger CPU mean bigger address spaces. > - ultra-fast server I/O subsystems There needs to be some semblence of symmetry between CPU and I/O. > - Linux source code portability A marketing gimmic? > - "inscrutable" manuals and support documents Green oats. > - "borrows pieces from several Unix implementations to create a > versatile, broadly compatible operating environment" You're bad habits will work here. > - "holes in System V compatibility make application porting difficult" HP-UX in a nutshell? > > Any thoughts in regards to BSDs? > > Basically, I am looking for ideas on how I can promote BSD using some of > these examples. (I want to develop some strong arguments for BSD in > comparison with "official" Unix's.) > > I just found the article online at > http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/fixup.pl?story=http://www.infoworld.com/articles/tc/xml/01/01/15/010115tcunix.xml&dctag=operatingsystems > > Jeremy C. Reed > http://www.reedmedia.net/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message