From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 5 15:39: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86B6F37B718; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:39:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrodri@enteract.com) Received: from [147.126.50.163] ([147.126.50.163]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24126; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:39:02 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mrodri@enteract.com) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 17:40:04 -0600 Subject: BSD user group in Chicago From: Markemmanuel To: , , Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there! I'm looking for a BSD user group in the Chica. The link that wa= s the freebsd.org web site sent me to a site with a forbidden directory. I also checked the mailing lists to search for more information to no avail. Please email me directly because I am not subscribed to the mailing list an= d I don=B9t' want to waste bandwidth for mailing lists. Thanks! :) --markemmanuel, super BSDnewbie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 5 16: 7:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.dobox.com (mail.dobox.com [208.187.122.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A9CF37B718 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:07:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@dobox.com) Received: (qmail 2482 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 00:07:43 -0000 Received: from salty.dobox.com (HELO dobox.com) (10.0.1.33) by spinoff.dobox.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 00:07:43 -0000 Message-ID: <3AA42B11.9EE89750@dobox.com> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 17:10:57 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: DoBox Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; OpenBSD 2.7 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stephens@cnet.com Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So how do I got about rebutting the flat-out lies perpetrated by Mr. Wilkins in your article, on behalf of the FreeBSD Project? FreeBSD has always supported files and disk volumes of 2^63 bytes, far larger than anything made by Maxtor or supported by the NTFS filesystem. It provides open-source server software for both AppleTalk and NetWare file and printer sharing, enterprise backup management from Veritas, and network managment via the standard SNMP protocol. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters System Architect http://www.dobox.com/ DoBox Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 5 16:36:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from utwebmail01.financialfusion.com (utwebmail01.hfnweb.com [207.49.36.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F5237B71C for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:36:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mikemorgan@financialfusion.com) Received: by utwebmail01.financialfusion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <1T0H9ZPX>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:35:17 -0700 Message-ID: From: Mike Morgan To: 'Wes Peters' Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:36:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It's all about the money and brown-nosing with Micro$haft. Check out Maxtor's stock price. Looks like they could use some help from a 200 billon dollar company MAXTOR CORP MXTR 6.69 -0.06 -----Original Message----- From: Wes Peters [mailto:wes@dobox.com] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 5:11 PM To: stephens@cnet.com Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source So how do I got about rebutting the flat-out lies perpetrated by Mr. Wilkins in your article, on behalf of the FreeBSD Project? FreeBSD has always supported files and disk volumes of 2^63 bytes, far larger than anything made by Maxtor or supported by the NTFS filesystem. It provides open-source server software for both AppleTalk and NetWare file and printer sharing, enterprise backup management from Veritas, and network managment via the standard SNMP protocol. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters System Architect http://www.dobox.com/ DoBox Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 6 0:19:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F1BD37B719 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 00:19:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14aCsa-0000QT-00; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 01:31:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3AA4A067.6916EA6B@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 01:31:35 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Morgan Cc: 'Wes Peters' , "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Morgan wrote: > > It's all about the money and brown-nosing with Micro$haft. > > Check out Maxtor's stock price. Looks like they could use some help from a > 200 billon dollar company That used to be a 1-trillion dollar company. Heh. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 6 1: 1:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C67C37B718 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 01:01:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f26918N89674; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 01:01:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Wes Peters" , Cc: Subject: RE: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 01:01:08 -0800 Message-ID: <001f01c0a61b$fbbbf1a0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <3AA42B11.9EE89750@dobox.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What I found most interesting was that according to Maxtor, this product is brand-new, thus it's never been touched by a customer before. It would have been more impressive if they had released this product onto the market with FreeBSD on it, and then withdrew it later. If that was the case, their competence with FreeBSD would give some credibility to their statements. However, as it stands now with this product, Maxtor has proved neither competence with FreeBSD, nor competence with Windows 2000. All they have shown is that they have been competent in using the threat of FreeBSD to extract additional licensing concessions from Microsoft. At this time I don't even see any proof that they were even running FreeBSD on their product. Rather than a denoucement of FreeBSD, if you read between the lines you will see that this is actually quite a feather in FreeBSD's cap. The story headline would have been more accurately written: "Microsoft gives up Client Licensing revenue to keep Maxtor from using FreeBSD on their new storage product" Then, all you would have had to do was reorder the quotes in the article so that Mr. Wilkin's comments about being the first licensee to get free CAL on Win2K were first, and Mr. Wilkin's quotes about FreeBSD not supporting such and such were last, and the article would have fitted the headline perfectly. Don't forget that Cnet is a profit-making business and has no choice but to write the article in such a manner as to gain the most interest. People are tired of reading articles titled "Microsoft this" and "Microsoft that" they want to read about the alternatives to Microsoft. This story was headlined as a FreeBSD story, not a Microsoft story, even though it's really just another story about Microsoft wheeling and dealing. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Wes Peters >Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 4:11 PM >To: stephens@cnet.com >Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source > > >So how do I got about rebutting the flat-out lies perpetrated by Mr. >Wilkins in your article, on behalf of the FreeBSD Project? > >FreeBSD has always supported files and disk volumes of 2^63 bytes, far >larger than anything made by Maxtor or supported by the NTFS filesystem. >It provides open-source server software for both AppleTalk and NetWare >file and printer sharing, enterprise backup management from Veritas, >and network managment via the standard SNMP protocol. > >-- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > >Wes Peters >System Architect >http://www.dobox.com/ > DoBox Inc. > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 6 10:24:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (mail.dobox.com [208.187.122.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6FE37B71A for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:24:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14aMJD-00008M-00; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 11:35:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3AA52DFF.BE87FDE8@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 11:35:43 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: Wes Peters , stephens@cnet.com, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source References: <001f01c0a61b$fbbbf1a0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > What I found most interesting was that according to Maxtor, > this product is brand-new, thus it's never been touched by a > customer before. It would have been more impressive if they > had released this product onto the market with FreeBSD on it, > and then withdrew it later. If that was the case, their > competence with FreeBSD would give some credibility to their > statements. > > However, as it stands now with this product, Maxtor has proved > neither competence with FreeBSD, nor competence with Windows 2000. > All they have shown is that they have been competent in > using the threat of FreeBSD to extract additional licensing > concessions from Microsoft. At this time I don't even see > any proof that they were even running FreeBSD on their product. The ran, and continue to run, FreeBSD on their earlier products. > Rather than a denoucement of FreeBSD, if you read between the lines > you will see that this is actually quite a feather in FreeBSD's > cap. The story headline would have been more accurately written: > > "Microsoft gives up Client Licensing revenue to keep Maxtor > from using FreeBSD on their new storage product" Yes, quite an interesting spin. Would you like to write an article on this? You're quite a good writer, you know. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 6 11: 8:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF7237B718 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:08:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA68885; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:08:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:08:03 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Wes Peters Cc: Ted Mittelstaedt , Wes Peters , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source Message-ID: <20010306140803.A68860@blackhelicopters.org> References: <001f01c0a61b$fbbbf1a0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3AA52DFF.BE87FDE8@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3AA52DFF.BE87FDE8@softweyr.com>; from wes@softweyr.com on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 11:35:43AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 11:35:43AM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Yes, quite an interesting spin. Would you like to write an article > on this? You're quite a good writer, you know. ;^) If Ted won't, I volunteer. I presume the general audience of -advocacy would be willing to review it for me. :) ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 6 11:53:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 118EB37B71E for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:53:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 462AFE; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:53:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E77A49A13; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:53:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:53:49 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Coleman To: Michael Lucas Cc: Wes Peters , Ted Mittelstaedt , Wes Peters , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source In-Reply-To: <20010306140803.A68860@blackhelicopters.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am sure I can find a place to publish it. :-) Chris Coleman Daemon News http://www.daemonnews.org Bringing BSD together On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Michael Lucas wrote: > On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 11:35:43AM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > > Yes, quite an interesting spin. Would you like to write an article > > on this? You're quite a good writer, you know. ;^) > > If Ted won't, I volunteer. I presume the general audience of > -advocacy would be willing to review it for me. :) > > ==ml > > -- > Michael Lucas > mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ > Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 6 12:31:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC1237B719 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:31:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA69180; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:31:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:31:22 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Chris Coleman Cc: Wes Peters , Ted Mittelstaedt , Wes Peters , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source Message-ID: <20010306153122.A69160@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20010306140803.A68860@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from chrisc@vmunix.com on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 02:53:49PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daemonnews would be lovely, yes. But if we can get this in some "mainstream" media (I use the term loosely), that would be better. After all, the story we're reacting to appeared on cnet. Bit of an uneven battle there. :) Actually, thinking about it, there's two separate articles here. One is the mainstream "media spin"; the other is a daemonnews "how to react to this" BSD advocacy piece. Interested in either, Ted? Or should I just get typing? ;) On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 02:53:49PM -0500, Chris Coleman wrote: > I am sure I can find a place to publish it. :-) > > Chris Coleman > Daemon News > http://www.daemonnews.org > Bringing BSD together > > On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Michael Lucas wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 11:35:43AM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > > > Yes, quite an interesting spin. Would you like to write an article > > > on this? You're quite a good writer, you know. ;^) > > > > If Ted won't, I volunteer. I presume the general audience of > > -advocacy would be willing to review it for me. :) > > > > ==ml > > > > -- > > Michael Lucas > > mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org > > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ > > Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 6 13:49:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from panda.FreeBSDsystems.COM (panda.freebsdsystems.com [216.126.95.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9542037B718 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:49:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lnb@panda.FreeBSDsystems.COM) Received: (from lnb@localhost) by panda.FreeBSDsystems.COM (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f26LnA224044 for advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:49:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lnb) From: Lanny Baron Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:49:10 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD on an Intel program site MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01030616491001.24020@panda.FreeBSDsystems.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A very pleasant suprise came to my eyes last night. When I was signing up for another program that Intel offers to IPD's, it was stunning to see in the list of chosen operating systems, BSD - Free BSD (I wonder if it might be a good idea to inform Big Blue to get the name right..FreeBSD), and BSD - BSDi. Anyway, I just thought it was worth mentioning this. Regards to all, =~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~ Lanny Baron 1.877.963.1900 http://www.FreeBSDsystems.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 6 23:22:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C21237B718 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:22:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f277LxN93163; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:22:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Wes Peters" Cc: "Wes Peters" , , Subject: RE: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:21:59 -0800 Message-ID: <004b01c0a6d7$4c8a85e0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <3AA52DFF.BE87FDE8@softweyr.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >-----Original Message----- >From: wes [mailto:wes]On Behalf Of Wes Peters >Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:36 AM >To: Ted Mittelstaedt >Cc: Wes Peters; stephens@cnet.com; freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org >Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source > > >Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >> >> What I found most interesting was that according to Maxtor, >> this product is brand-new, thus it's never been touched by a >> customer before. It would have been more impressive if they >> had released this product onto the market with FreeBSD on it, >> and then withdrew it later. If that was the case, their >> competence with FreeBSD would give some credibility to their >> statements. >> >> However, as it stands now with this product, Maxtor has proved >> neither competence with FreeBSD, nor competence with Windows 2000. >> All they have shown is that they have been competent in >> using the threat of FreeBSD to extract additional licensing >> concessions from Microsoft. At this time I don't even see >> any proof that they were even running FreeBSD on their product. > >The ran, and continue to run, FreeBSD on their earlier products. > >> Rather than a denoucement of FreeBSD, if you read between the lines >> you will see that this is actually quite a feather in FreeBSD's >> cap. The story headline would have been more accurately written: >> >> "Microsoft gives up Client Licensing revenue to keep Maxtor >> from using FreeBSD on their new storage product" > >Yes, quite an interesting spin. Would you like to write an article >on this? You're quite a good writer, you know. ;^) > Possibly, possibly. ;-) Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 7 0:53:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54B4337B718 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:53:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f278rDN93320; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:53:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Michael Lucas" , "Chris Coleman" Cc: "Wes Peters" , Subject: RE: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:53:12 -0800 Message-ID: <004c01c0a6e4$0a3e8e40$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <20010306153122.A69160@blackhelicopters.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >-----Original Message----- >From: Michael Lucas [mailto:mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org] >Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:31 PM >To: Chris Coleman >Cc: Wes Peters; Ted Mittelstaedt; Wes Peters; >freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source > > >Daemonnews would be lovely, yes. > >But if we can get this in some "mainstream" media (I use the term >loosely), that would be better. After all, the story we're reacting >to appeared on cnet. Bit of an uneven battle there. :) > >Actually, thinking about it, there's two separate articles here. One >is the mainstream "media spin"; the other is a daemonnews "how to >react to this" BSD advocacy piece. > Let me reword that to say that the first article is a mainstream media spin piece that's a reaction to THIS particular story. I'd say that the other is a daemonnews "How to effectively react as a FreeBSD advocate to these sorts of news stories" >Interested in either, Ted? Or should I just get typing? ;) > I'm intersted in doing an article on #2, but my concern on a "react to the media spin" #1 article is that I frankly view the original article as an attempt to stir up controversy, not an attempt to convey a newsworthy item. As such I think that it can be safely ignored. Any attempt to respond with another mainstream media piece is simply going to play into the hands of the original reporter. Remember, I write a monthly column too, I know how it is. The folks that write these kinds of stories are in a difficult position. If they pass themselves off as pure columnists, then what they write is purely opinion, and nobody reads it. That obviously is what this article is - note that it's only direct quotes from Maxtor's spokesman, and no quotes from anyone in the FreeBSD project. But, the writer can't really play at being a real reporter either - because a real reporter checks his facts and backs up everything that he says, and lets both sides speak their piece on his articles, and those stories have no place on a "news website" like Cnet. These news websites are just like the evening news on the TV set - they aren't really news, they are just entertainment. What your seeing here is basically the output of an opinion columnist who is passing himself off as a reporter. There's nothing wrong with this as long as the readership knows what he is. Unfortunately most of the readers don't. This kind of thing really illustrates why I feel that it was a serious mistake to get rid, or let drop, the position of the FreeBSD Presidency that Jordan used to take. This is really the entire point of having a President anyway - not to direct FreeBSD development, but to handle PR. One of the reasons that Linux is so much more visible in the media is that every technical reporter in the world now knows that if they want a comment from "The Linux Camp" on something, that they ring up Linus Torvalis, even though he actually has little participation in direct Linux development these days. Richard Stallman serves a similar function for The GNU Project, although I would guess that the project members would be happy enough to find someone else. What I think is kind of frustrating for people like Cnet is that on one hand, they have Microsoft indirectly taking potshots at FreeBSD. But, in the other hand, there's no single individual in The FreeBSD Project that really speaks for the project. So, when some fool VP at Microsoft issues a few comments, they can't go running to someone at FreeBSD to get a response. If I were to be asked by a reporter to make an "official" response, I'd have to say something along the lines of this: "We have seen the comments that were alleged to have been made by Maxtor's spokesperson, Mr. X, as to the reasons that Maxtor decided to drop FreeBSD. We feel these comments are unjustified and unwarranted. (follow with a list of the specific deficiencies and a rebuttal to each) We note that Maxtor continues to use FreeBSD in their (follow with a list of their products that use FreeBSD) We appreciate the contribution that they have made in the past to the FreeBSD project in the areas of (follow with a list of anything that Maxtor has kicked back to FreeBSD) We look forward to future contributions from Maxtor to FreeBSD." But, if I was asked by a reporter to make an anonymous response, I'd say flat out that this is a new product of Maxtor's. Thus, it's obvious that this switch didn't occur as a response to customer demand, instead it just shows how desperate they are to get advertising attention for this product line. I'd also say that Maxtor is jepoardizing the product viability to make a switch from a proven and stable platform (FreeBSD) that they have been already using, to a brand-new operating system that has no background yet, and that this does not engender trust among customers. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 02:53:49PM -0500, Chris Coleman wrote: >> I am sure I can find a place to publish it. :-) >> >> Chris Coleman >> Daemon News >> http://www.daemonnews.org >> Bringing BSD together >> >> On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Michael Lucas wrote: >> >> > On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 11:35:43AM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: >> > > Yes, quite an interesting spin. Would you like to write an article >> > > on this? You're quite a good writer, you know. ;^) >> > >> > If Ted won't, I volunteer. I presume the general audience of >> > -advocacy would be willing to review it for me. :) >> > >> > ==ml >> > >> > -- >> > Michael Lucas >> > mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org >> > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ >> > Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons >> > >> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >> > > >-- >Michael Lucas >mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org >http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ >Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 7 6:52:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7FA637B71B for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 06:52:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA72177; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:51:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:51:09 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: Chris Coleman , Wes Peters , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source Message-ID: <20010307095109.B72098@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20010306153122.A69160@blackhelicopters.org> <004c01c0a6e4$0a3e8e40$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <004c01c0a6e4$0a3e8e40$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>; from tedm@toybox.placo.com on Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 12:53:12AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 12:53:12AM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > I'm intersted in doing an article on #2, but my concern on a > "react to the media spin" #1 article is that I frankly view the original > article as an attempt to stir up controversy, not an attempt to > convey a newsworthy item. As such I think that it can be safely > ignored. Any attempt to respond with another mainstream media piece > is simply going to play into the hands of the original reporter. [gobs of good stuff deleted] After some sleep, you're right. Chris, if my BSD column ever stoops to this, please smack me. Repeatedly. I'll bow out, then. ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 7 8:19:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from central.cnet.com (central.cnet.com [204.162.81.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5EB837B718 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:19:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stephens@cnet.com) Received: from stephenstest2k.cnet.com (25.73.10.10.nat.cnet.com [10.10.73.25]) by central.cnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26997; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:18:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307081008.00b9d018@cnet10.cnet.com> X-Sender: stephens@cnet10.cnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 08:17:33 -0800 To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" , "Wes Peters" From: Stephen Shankland Subject: RE: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source Cc: In-Reply-To: <001f01c0a61b$fbbbf1a0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> References: <3AA42B11.9EE89750@dobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks for all the e-mail, folks. The predecessor that used FreeBSD was the 3000 and 4000 models, not an unshipped 4100. The file system issue, as explained further by Wilkins in a follow-up e-mail: "In answer to your question..., the file system we use with our operating system on the NAS 3000 and NAS 4000 is FFS. With respect to the 2GB file size limitation I mentioned, that was a result of our implementation rather than the file system itself. "The reason for moving to a NAS Powered by Windows operating system was the level of interoperability and manageability that comes with Win2k core. This leaves our software resources able to focus on the things that we do best rather than trying to emulate an NT or Win2K environment." Regarding News sites' profit motive and the link to sensationalism, I called the story like I saw it. Of course we write stories in an attempt to catch people's interest. News sites would be pretty dull if we didn't try to write about things that we believe people would find interesting. sts At 01:01 AM 3/6/2001 -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >What I found most interesting was that according to Maxtor, >this product is brand-new, thus it's never been touched by a >customer before. It would have been more impressive if they >had released this product onto the market with FreeBSD on it, >and then withdrew it later. If that was the case, their >competence with FreeBSD would give some credibility to their >statements. > >However, as it stands now with this product, Maxtor has proved >neither competence with FreeBSD, nor competence with Windows 2000. >All they have shown is that they have been competent in >using the threat of FreeBSD to extract additional licensing >concessions from Microsoft. At this time I don't even see >any proof that they were even running FreeBSD on their product. > >Rather than a denoucement of FreeBSD, if you read between the lines >you will see that this is actually quite a feather in FreeBSD's >cap. The story headline would have been more accurately written: > >"Microsoft gives up Client Licensing revenue to keep Maxtor >from using FreeBSD on their new storage product" > >Then, all you would have had to do was reorder the quotes in >the article so that Mr. Wilkin's comments about being the >first licensee to get free CAL on Win2K were first, and Mr. >Wilkin's quotes about FreeBSD not supporting such and such >were last, and the article would have fitted the headline >perfectly. > >Don't forget that Cnet is a profit-making business and >has no choice but to write the article in such a manner as >to gain the most interest. People are tired of reading >articles titled "Microsoft this" and "Microsoft that" >they want to read about the alternatives to Microsoft. >This story was headlined as a FreeBSD story, not a >Microsoft story, even though it's really just another story >about Microsoft wheeling and dealing. > >Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com >Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide >Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >>[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Wes Peters >>Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 4:11 PM >>To: stephens@cnet.com >>Subject: Re: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source >> >> >>So how do I got about rebutting the flat-out lies perpetrated by Mr. >>Wilkins in your article, on behalf of the FreeBSD Project? >> >>FreeBSD has always supported files and disk volumes of 2^63 bytes, far >>larger than anything made by Maxtor or supported by the NTFS filesystem. >>It provides open-source server software for both AppleTalk and NetWare >>file and printer sharing, enterprise backup management from Veritas, >>and network managment via the standard SNMP protocol. >> >>-- >> "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" >> >>Wes Peters >>System Architect >>http://www.dobox.com/ >> DoBox Inc. >> >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >> Stephen Shankland reporter, CNET News.com phone: 415-364-8406 email: stephens@cnet.com Yahoo Instant Messenger: stshank mailing address: 150 Chestnut St., San Francisco, CA 94111 street address: 1160 Battery St., third floor, San Francisco, CA 94111 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 7 15:23:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F20737B718 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:23:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@zer0.org) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A5FFA239A53; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:23:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:23:24 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: [maxtor@opt01.edirectnetwork.net: Maxtor/Microsoft Webcast and a Chance to Win a 320GB Server] Message-ID: <20010307152324.F90153@klapaucius.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="yLVHuoLXiP9kZBkt" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --yLVHuoLXiP9kZBkt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline And you wondered whether this was a political decision? Here's some spam... Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage. mailto:gsutter@zer0.org http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD --yLVHuoLXiP9kZBkt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: gsutter@zer0.org Received: from wormwood.pobox.com (wormwood.pobox.com [208.210.124.20]) by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB0A239A53 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from wormwood.pobox.com (localhost.pobox.com [127.0.0.1]) by wormwood.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF9B17253B for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:11:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from opt01.edirectnetwork.net (opt01.thebest.net [207.124.26.52]) by wormwood.pobox.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D01967251D for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:11:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 5674 invoked by uid 502); 7 Mar 2001 23:11:33 -0000 Date: 7 Mar 2001 23:11:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20010307231133.5671.qmail@opt01.edirectnetwork.net> To: GSUTTER@POBOX.COM From: maxtor@opt01.edirectnetwork.net Subject: Maxtor/Microsoft Webcast and a Chance to Win a 320GB Server X-Header: Ref 2-63810 Sender: opt-in@opt01.edirectnetwork.net X-junkfilter: 20001130 X-Spammer: bodychk: Click Here domains: edirectnetwork.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The following message was sent to you as an opt-in subscriber to FreeCatalogs.net. We will continue to bring you valuable offers on the products and services that interest you most. If you wish to unsubscribe please copy and paste the following link into your web browser or click here: http://mx01.edirectnetwork.net/cgi-bin/optout2.cgi?email=GSUTTER@POBOX.COM&eid=1-3-wQ-jkx ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maxtor invites you to hear about the exciting new Maxtor/Microsoft alliance at a Webcast, 10:00 a.m. PST on March 13, 2001. This collaboration has launched a new class of network attached storage (NAS) file server products based on Microsoft Windows 2000 operating system technologies. 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Maxtor is a registered trademark of Maxtor Corporation. MaxAttach is a trademark of Maxtor Corporation. (c) 2001 Maxtor Corporation. All rights reserved. AOL Members Click Here Ref# 1-3-wQ-jkx --yLVHuoLXiP9kZBkt-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 7 23:15:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C0837B71A for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:15:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f287FZN96922; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:15:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Stephen Shankland" , "Wes Peters" Cc: Subject: RE: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:15:34 -0800 Message-ID: <000401c0a79f$91216f20$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307081008.00b9d018@cnet10.cnet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >-----Original Message----- >From: Stephen Shankland [mailto:stephens@cnet.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:18 AM >To: Ted Mittelstaedt; Wes Peters >Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org >Subject: RE: Maxtor picks Windows, dumps open source > > >Thanks for all the e-mail, folks. Hi Stephen, Thanks very much for at least taking the time to respond to what probably were a number of e-mails from many other people, regarding your article at http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2692519,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews 01 Members of The FreeBSD Project do appreciate any mention of FreeBSD in the news, whether positive or negative. We enjoy positive comments and stories as praise for hard work on the Project. We view negative stories as an opportunity to correct problems and make things better. I'm pleased that you acknowledged that the statement that Steve Williams made was incorrect in talking about a 2GB limit. For the record, he also was incorrect when he said that FreeBSD doesen't support Apple filesystems because there are several FreeBSD programs that do. We look forward to a followup story setting the record straight. There are some valid responses to the assertion, unsupported by fact, that Win2K has better interoperability than FreeBSD. I'm particularly annoyed at this implication because I just got done publishing a book that is _specifically_ about interoperation of FreeBSD in a Windows network. Probably nobody at Maxtor read it. I also might point out that the majority of corporations _at_this_time_ have not made the move to Win2K and have no intention of doing so. Per Aberdeen Group, Giga Information Group, see http://datamation.earthweb.com/earthweb/cda/dlink.resource-jhtml.72.965.%7Cr epository%7C%7Citmanagement%7Ccontent%7Carticle%7C2000%7C12%7C06%7CEMmullich wincon%7CEMmullichwincon~xml.41.jhtml?cda=true About the only advantage of Win2K on Maxtor's product that I can see at this time is that there's a bunch of commercial ISV's that are eager to sell the customers add-on software that they couldn't do if it was FreeBSD. (because the stuff that they would use to do the same tasks is all free under FreeBSD) Some advantage - it seems that Maxtor is more interested in making friends with the ISV's than giving the customer a cost-effective solution. As I've stated before in the Advocacy group, I don't mind if someone prints a slanted story if it's clearly marked as an opinion piece. I do that myself with my own column all the time. What I object to, and I think most people object to, is framing a story as a news piece that is so obviously biased towards a party. I would feel equally uncomfortable if you wrote a story that was completely slanted towards FreeBSD and failed to get a quote from any of the competition. In the future when talking about FreeBSD whether in a positive or a negative light, e-mail someone in the group and GET A QUOTE from them. In the FreeBSD Project itself, Jordan K Hubbard is assigned to Public Relations & Corporate Liaison. There are also some recognized individuals (such as myself, and Greg Lehey, and several other authors) in the FreeBSD community, and in addition to that, BSDi (owner of Walnut Creek, the largest FreeBSD distributor) has a marketing department. ---Any of us can speak for the FreeBSD Project!!! Unlike a commercial organization FreeBSD is completely volunteer, and the folks here ARE the Voice of FreeBSD---- You can call me at my office anytime 9-6 MF, PST for a quote if you have a hot story. There's absolutely NO EXCUSE for not getting a quote. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >Stephen Shankland >reporter, CNET News.com >phone: 415-364-8406 >email: stephens@cnet.com >Yahoo Instant Messenger: stshank >mailing address: 150 Chestnut St., San Francisco, CA 94111 >street address: 1160 Battery St., third floor, San Francisco, CA 94111 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 7 23:40:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D02ED37B718 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:40:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f287eDN97003; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:40:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Gregory Sutter" , Subject: RE: [maxtor@opt01.edirectnetwork.net: Maxtor/Microsoft Webcast and a Chance to Win a 320GB Server] Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:40:13 -0800 Message-ID: <001101c0a7a3$02abdf60$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <20010307152324.F90153@klapaucius.zer0.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think we all ought to register immediately for the webcast and if we get enough people then someone here will win the 4100 and then for revenge we need to reload FreeBSD on it and tell the world how much better it runs. ;-) Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Gregory Sutter >Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 3:23 PM >To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: [maxtor@opt01.edirectnetwork.net: Maxtor/Microsoft Webcast and >a Chance to Win a 320GB Server] > > >And you wondered whether this was a political decision? Here's some >spam... > >Greg >-- >Gregory S. Sutter Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage. >mailto:gsutter@zer0.org >http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ >hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message