From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 15 2:19:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [205.166.121.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88F437B406 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 02:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f6F9JAs42816 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 02:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 02:19:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Josef Grosch Message-Id: <200107150919.f6F9JAs42816@mooseriver.com> To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: *BSD Counter Project Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG *BSD Counter Project http://www.bsdcounter.org http://www.bsd-counter.org The *BSD Counter project have put up the first public beta of its counter page. The Counter project is an attempt to gauge the installed base of *BSD. We current do not have a very good idea as to what is our installed base, how *BSD is being used and by whom. Because of this, *BSD is at a disadvantage when talking to ISVs and hardware and software vendors. You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can be found at : http://www.bsdcounter.org Couple of caveats: * Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the project, and the various BSD core group will ever see this information. It will _NOT_ be handed over to spammers, direct marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos. * Suggestions and comments are welcome! * The database behind this page was built from the email registrations sent to Walnut Creek. If you registered at the time of an install chances are you are in this database. * This site is an on-going project. Not everything is working. We are working very hard finish this project so please be patient. * Currently the "Register Yourself" page is working. The "Correct Your Entry" is currently broken but it should be fixed by the next time this notice comes out. Don't bother with the "Register a Machine" page. We are still working on the database layout of that. * We welcome the opportunity to work with the principles / leaders / dictators-for-life of the various BSD groups. Please feel free to contact us. We are working on a standard API to integrate your registration efforts with ours. * If you need to contact us, send email to jgrosch@mooseriver.com This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th of the month. -- $Id: CounterPageAnnounce.txt,v 1.3 2001/07/04 07:50:32 jgrosch Exp $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 15 2:40: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E45AC37B405 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 02:40:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6F9de809588; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 02:39:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Mit Rowe" , Subject: RE: Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 02:39:39 -0700 Message-ID: <003b01c10d12$117f1c80$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don't waste your time. Chili!soft is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sun Microsystems. It serves Sun's purposes to have a Linux port of Chilisoft because Linux is not currently and probably will never be stable and scalable enough to run on the really large sites. This means that ISP's that go down the Chili-on-Linux route if they keep getting bigger will eventually have to migrate to Solaris for the stability. FreeBSD on the other hand is stable enough to be used on the really large sites. If Sun releases ASP for FreeBSD using Chilisoft then ISP's that go the Chili-on-FreeBSD route will never have incentive to "upgrade" to Solaris. It would probably also be instructive to examine the Sun annual report and the SEC filings to see if revenue from Chili is broken out. (I would think that it would have to be since they are a subsidiary) I would guess that if you did that you would find that Chili!Soft isn't profitable for Sun. As a result, they probably aren't that interested in expanding it into new markets. A look at the job postings on Chili's website seems to confirm this - there's no postings for technical or programmer types, this indicates that their just in maintainence mode on the software. In fact all they are looking for is a marketing person - so what you have here is a company that's currently only interested in expanding marketing, not technical development. That's a fairly good indicator that they are attempting to build sales on the existing product line and are not at the current time interested in expanding into new markets. If I were you I'd excuse the unstability crack on the Chilisoft support forum. The person that made that remark is just a support tech, they are not the people in that company who determines what platforms that the Chili software supports. What is most likely is that they threw that out because they want all the BSD people to go away and quit bothering them because they have probably been told by their bosses to focus on supporting the existing markets - ie: Linux and Solaris - and not to spend time responding to people who they can't sell anything to. Don't take it personally it's just business. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Mit Rowe >Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 12:43 PM >To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: > > >http://www.chilisoft.com/forum/getthread.asp?searchmydate=All&recordnumber=1 >5605&curID=15605&mydate=30&threadnumber=6810&threadname=Chili%21Soft+General >+Support&threadtopic=ASP+and+FreeBSD&search=yes > > > > >"ASP and FreeBSD ChiliSoft Tech 04/19/01 > >At this time FreeBSD is just too unstable for ChiliSoft to support. We are >still investigating a release for FreeBSD, but everything is preliminary at >this point. I don't see FreeBSD support happening in the near future. Well, >not until a stable version is released. > >-ChiliSoft Tech" > >I consider this a challenge. How about you? > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 15 18:47:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from spade.pacific.net.sg (spade.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A1B37B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 18:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jk.tan@pacific.net.sg) Received: from pop1.pacific.net.sg (pop1.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.85]) by spade.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id f6G1lBm25153 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:47:11 +0800 (SGT) Received: from tanjkvaio (suntec01.i-dns.net [203.126.116.227]) by pop1.pacific.net.sg with SMTP id JAA21417 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:47:10 +0800 (SGT) From: "Tan Juay Kwang" To: Subject: Nokia phone logo for the BSD mascot Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:50:21 +0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Am wondering if there are any Nokia Phone's logo for our cute little mascot? If there is, where can I download a copy of it? Regards, Juay Kwang To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 16 10:14:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A85B37B403 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:14:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.46.72]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA3E45; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:20:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3B5320E2.2E887874@acuson.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:14:10 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mit Rowe Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mit Rowe wrote: > At this time FreeBSD is just too unstable for ChiliSoft to support. Well, if they consider Linux to be more stable than FreeBSD then consider what the stability of their own products must be like. Maybe that's why they haven't released FreeBSD versions yet, they keep crashing on FreeBSD even though it's their own software's fault. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 16 14: 8:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b047.otenet.gr [195.167.121.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD53C37B403 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:08:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: by hades.hell.gr (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 57B6A2C9; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:37:27 +0300 (EEST) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:37:27 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: David Johnson Cc: Mit Rowe , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Message-ID: <20010716233726.A44647@hades.hell.gr> References: <3B5320E2.2E887874@acuson.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B5320E2.2E887874@acuson.com>; from djohnson@acuson.com on Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 10:14:10AM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: David Johnson Subject: Re: Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 10:14:10AM -0700 > Mit Rowe wrote: > > > At this time FreeBSD is just too unstable for ChiliSoft to support. > > Well, if they consider Linux to be more stable than FreeBSD then > consider what the stability of their own products must be like. Maybe > that's why they haven't released FreeBSD versions yet, they keep > crashing on FreeBSD even though it's their own software's fault. Well, yes. Without proper debugging, it's easy to assume that the OS does something to crash an application. And proper debugging, is not something that I've learned to expect from a commercial entity :/ -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 18 1:10:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.thinksec.com (time.thinksec.com [193.212.248.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4043837B403 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 01:10:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@enigma.thinksec.com) Received: from enigma.thinksec.com (lsl48.nsn.no [195.159.104.239]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Client CN "enigma.thinksec.com", Issuer CN "ThinkSec CA admin" (verified OK)) by mx1.thinksec.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C4D47CBB; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:10:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: by enigma.thinksec.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7549C3E6CD; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:13:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:13:32 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Mit Rowe Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <20010718101332.A84822@thinksec.no> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.19i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 03:42:44PM -0400, Mit Rowe wrote: > http://www.chilisoft.com/forum/getthread.asp?searchmydate=All&recordnumber=1 > 5605&curID=15605&mydate=30&threadnumber=6810&threadname=Chili%21Soft+General > +Support&threadtopic=ASP+and+FreeBSD&search=yes > > > > > "ASP and FreeBSD ChiliSoft Tech 04/19/01 > > At this time FreeBSD is just too unstable for ChiliSoft to support. We are > still investigating a release for FreeBSD, but everything is preliminary at > this point. I don't see FreeBSD support happening in the near future. Well, > not until a stable version is released. > > -ChiliSoft Tech" > > I consider this a challenge. How about you? I consider it too unclear to be possible to do much about. You are hereby assigned the quest for more information. Report back with information about what the heretics are talking about within sundown thursday. And may the Lady bless your quest. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 18 7:36:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from puke.reno.oemsupport.com (64-42-17-172.atgi.net [64.42.17.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4F237B415 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:36:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pcalkins@oemsupport.com) Received: by puke.reno.oemsupport.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <3V2J53C5>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:36:19 -0700 Message-ID: <9B9CB6555E6BA049BC2B857E7711C24F2A051B@puke.reno.oemsupport.com> From: Patrick Calkins To: "Freebsd-Advocacy (E-mail)" Subject: RE: your mail Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:36:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG # On Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 03:42:44PM -0400, Mit Rowe wrote: # > # http://www.chilisoft.com/forum/getthread.asp?searchmydate=All& # recordnumber=1 # > # 5605&curID=15605&mydate=30&threadnumber=6810&threadname=Chili% # 21Soft+General # > +Support&threadtopic=ASP+and+FreeBSD&search=yes # > # > # > # > # > "ASP and FreeBSD ChiliSoft Tech 04/19/01 # > # > At this time FreeBSD is just too unstable for ChiliSoft to # support. We are # > still investigating a release for FreeBSD, but everything # is preliminary at # > this point. I don't see FreeBSD support happening in the # near future. Well, # > not until a stable version is released. # > # > -ChiliSoft Tech" # > # > I consider this a challenge. How about you? # # I consider it too unclear to be possible to do much about. # You are hereby # assigned the quest for more information. Report back with # information about # what the heretics are talking about within sundown thursday. # And may the Lady # bless your quest. # # Eivind. Boy-o-boy! Somebody had better let pair networks (www.pair.com) know about the stability issues with FreeBSD, and fast! Because it looks like they have a *lot* of work ahead of them in changing all those machines to something more reliable...like maybe NT?? LOL!!! Patrick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 19 0:20:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E856F37B405; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:20:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id CFD526ACC3; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:50:39 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:50:39 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Lucian Cosinschi Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: Exposure Message-ID: <20010719165039.F24616@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <27260074.995510764486.JavaMail.imail@swirly> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <27260074.995510764486.JavaMail.imail@swirly>; from lucian_cosinschi@excite.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 07:46:04PM -0700 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 18 July 2001 at 19:46:04 -0700, Lucian Cosinschi wrote: > > I'm from Romania and I'm almost a newbie to freeBSD but I can realize > that it is better than Linux. But I don't see almost any exposure as it > should. I'm studying now Public Relations and I want to help you with that. > Wouldn't it be a pity to lose in front of others that are not as good as you > all are. I think that the open source concept is about having what is right. > > So, I think that a way to get a better exposure is to introduce some on > line or/and off line tests followed by a kind of certification that will > make BSD even more atractive for someone who's looking for a job. And I > think there are a lot of people. I would like to help (for Romania at least) > in creating a FreeBSD Center (or any other flavoure of BSD) or in drawing a > public relations plan for you. > I have many more ideas of what to do but I need your help in many ways. Well, those are the aims of the FreeBSD advocacy people, so I'm following up there. There's quite a bit of advocacy going on already; the best I can recommend is for you to publish an article in a magazine or newspaper. If you don't have anything suitable, consider what's published in Daemon News and ask the author if you can translate it. Greg -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. If you don't, I may ignore the reply. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 19 6:16:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from rigel.grass.st (rigel.grass.st [195.197.32.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CAFB37B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 06:16:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsdadv@rigel.grass.st) Received: (from bsdadv@localhost) by rigel.grass.st (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA41200; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:16:40 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from bsdadv) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:16:40 +0300 From: mika ruohotie To: Tan Juay Kwang Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nokia phone logo for the BSD mascot Message-ID: <20010719161640.A41124@rigel.grass.st> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from jk.tan@pacific.net.sg on Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 09:50:21AM +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 09:50:21AM +0800, Tan Juay Kwang wrote: > Am wondering if there are any Nokia Phone's logo for our cute little mascot? > If there is, where can I download a copy of it? http://www.jippii.co.uk/uk/gsm/logo/Computer.shtml has at least something like it. (says freebsd and has a daemonish face) > Juay Kwang mickey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 19 8: 1:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0882637B403 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:01:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.179.213] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15NFJH-0007EY-00 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:01:51 -0400 Received: from daydream (daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f6JEtNe26716 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15NFD1-00068o-00 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:55:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:55:23 -0400 From: Charles Shannon Hendrix To: "Freebsd-Advocacy (E-mail)" Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <20010719105522.B23021@widomaker.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Freebsd-Advocacy (E-mail)" References: <9B9CB6555E6BA049BC2B857E7711C24F2A051B@puke.reno.oemsupport.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9B9CB6555E6BA049BC2B857E7711C24F2A051B@puke.reno.oemsupport.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.18i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 07:36:18AM -0700, Patrick Calkins wrote: > Boy-o-boy! Somebody had better let pair networks (www.pair.com) know about > the stability issues with FreeBSD, and fast! Because it looks like they have > a *lot* of work ahead of them in changing all those machines to something > more reliable...like maybe NT?? LOL!!! I don't think we should assume that they mean reliability when they say stability. For all we know, they could mean they think FreeBSD is changing a lot right now, and so they want to wait for a 5.x release. It's not uncommon for companies to make decisions like this, wether it makes any sense or not. -- "Consulting wouldn't be what it is today without Microsoft Windows" -- Chris Pinkham ________________________________________________________________ s h a n n o n @ w i d o m a k e r . c o m To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 19 19: 8: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3079237B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:07:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 15NPhu-000HYo-00 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 03:07:58 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6K27vF07528 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 03:07:57 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 03:07:57 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: sysadminmag update Message-ID: <20010720030757.A7504@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So, after all this tweaking, "we found that FreeBSD tuned had very similar performance to Linux (untuned) when running 1000 or less simultaneous sends. Overall, the tuned version of FreeBSD was 27% faster at sending email than the untuned version. FreeBSD mail sending performance peaked at 1000 to 1500 simultaneous sends, and then steadily declined as simultaneous connections increased." does this matter? jcm -- o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o | ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 19 22: 3: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915C537B409 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:02:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=5eb9a43c80a9ab70bcb75ee529fa1440) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15NSW3-0000fR-00; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:07:55 -0600 Message-ID: <3B57BCAB.4EC73BC3@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:07:55 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: j mckitrick Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysadminmag update References: <20010720030757.A7504@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG j mckitrick wrote: > > So, after all this tweaking, > "we found that FreeBSD > tuned had very similar performance to Linux > (untuned) when running 1000 or less simultaneous > sends. Overall, the tuned version of FreeBSD was > 27% faster at sending email than the untuned > version. FreeBSD mail sending performance peaked > at 1000 to 1500 simultaneous sends, and then > steadily declined as simultaneous connections > increased." > > does this matter? No, they stopped tuning there. It remains obvious their intent is not to show FreeBSD in a positive light, or to learn anything more about FreeBSD than what we've spoon-fed (i.e. crammed down their throats). We have broken one or two of their preconcieved notions about FreeBSD, but have NOT broken their foregone conclusion that Linux is the winner, nor can we. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 19 22:46:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51D237B409 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:46:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=ddc6cbbe122138a30a5d1d2b50af5c34) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15NTCL-0000h4-00; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:51:37 -0600 Message-ID: <3B57C6E9.6DACAE6F@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:51:37 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mika ruohotie Cc: Tan Juay Kwang , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nokia phone logo for the BSD mascot References: <20010719161640.A41124@rigel.grass.st> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG mika ruohotie wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 09:50:21AM +0800, Tan Juay Kwang wrote: > > Am wondering if there are any Nokia Phone's logo for our cute little mascot? > > If there is, where can I download a copy of it? > > http://www.jippii.co.uk/uk/gsm/logo/Computer.shtml > > has at least something like it. (says freebsd and has a daemonish face) Rats! Does anyone know of a North American vendor for this stuff? ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 19 23:28:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C3A37B405 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:28:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6K6QE825563; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "j mckitrick" , Subject: RE: sysadminmag update Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:26:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c110e4$e00e3560$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <20010720030757.A7504@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG only if your building a mailserver that's going to do more than 1000 simultaneous sends - and do you really think that such people are going to pay any attention to what SysAdmin magazine thinks? It's pretty easy to get benchmarks to prove anything espically when you pick ones that are meaningless to 99% of your readers. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of j mckitrick >Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 7:08 PM >To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: sysadminmag update > > > >So, after all this tweaking, >"we found that FreeBSD >tuned had very similar performance to Linux >(untuned) when running 1000 or less simultaneous >sends. Overall, the tuned version of FreeBSD was >27% faster at sending email than the untuned >version. FreeBSD mail sending performance peaked >at 1000 to 1500 simultaneous sends, and then >steadily declined as simultaneous connections >increased." > >does this matter? > > >jcm >-- >o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o >| ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | >| "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | >o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 20 9:30:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9295937B403 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:30:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.134.204.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.134.204]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21735; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B585CC8.480BA14D@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:31:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: j mckitrick Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysadminmag update References: <20010720030757.A7504@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG j mckitrick wrote: > > So, after all this tweaking, > "we found that FreeBSD > tuned had very similar performance to Linux > (untuned) when running 1000 or less simultaneous > sends. Overall, the tuned version of FreeBSD was > 27% faster at sending email than the untuned > version. FreeBSD mail sending performance peaked > at 1000 to 1500 simultaneous sends, and then > steadily declined as simultaneous connections > increased." > > does this matter? Pointer to article, please... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 20 9:49:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E8737B408 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:49:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 15NdT0-000J3Z-00; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:49:30 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6KGnUl17103; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:49:30 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:49:29 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysadminmag update Message-ID: <20010720174929.A17080@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010720030757.A7504@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <3B585CC8.480BA14D@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <3B585CC8.480BA14D@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 09:31:04AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG here it is: http://www.sysadminmag.com/articles/2001/0108/0108q/0108q.htm jcm -- o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o | ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 21 0:27:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B737B37B403 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:27:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.134.98.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.134.98]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17836; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B592F01.D9ED5404@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:28:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: j mckitrick Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysadminmag update References: <20010720030757.A7504@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <3B585CC8.480BA14D@mindspring.com> <20010720174929.A17080@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG j mckitrick wrote: > > here it is: > > http://www.sysadminmag.com/articles/2001/0108/0108q/0108q.htm The "tuning" they did for the sockets and other things is still wrong; most of those things are impossible to set at anything other than boot time. The numbers will go up, but the available number of objects sitting in the allocation pools will not. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 21 12:10:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B2C237B406 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:10:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=741f541fefb27aa1688f9f64e8a8ef8c) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15O2EE-0000BB-00; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:15:54 -0600 Message-ID: <3B59D4EA.D16322D7@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:15:54 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: j mckitrick , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysadminmag update References: <20010720030757.A7504@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <3B585CC8.480BA14D@mindspring.com> <20010720174929.A17080@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <3B592F01.D9ED5404@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > j mckitrick wrote: > > > > here it is: > > > > http://www.sysadminmag.com/articles/2001/0108/0108q/0108q.htm > > The "tuning" they did for the sockets and other things > is still wrong; most of those things are impossible to > set at anything other than boot time. The numbers will > go up, but the available number of objects sitting in > the allocation pools will not. Which is why I told them to configure and build a new kernel, advice they completely ignored. As I wrote earlier, this article had a foregone conclusion (Linux roolz) and we're not going to change their minds about that. Can we please stop trying to teach the pig to sing? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message