From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 7 6: 4: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71F3537B402 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 06:03:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from zoraida.reyes.somos.net (zoraida.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.15]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA61611; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 08:59:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:07:52 -0500 (EST) From: Francisco Reyes To: David Kelly Cc: Francisco Reyes , FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-Reply-To: <200101070506.f0756as07326@grumpy.dyndns.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote: > Unless a memory chip fails catastrophically, its hard to find the errant > chip. When they go bad they usually start logging an ECC correction > every day or two. Where does that get reported? As I understand ECC is handled by the motherboard. > As for MBs? The new VIA KT133 does *not* do ECC (Asus A7V) but am told > the older KX133 does. Do you know by any chance which motherboards use the old KX133? Doesn't this affect sales of Athlon CPUs for servers? After all that has been historically the market for ECC. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 7 6:53: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [212.227.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C5B37B724 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 06:31:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with local-bsmtp id 14FGql-0003jZ-00; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:31:11 +0100 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f07E8Vc15633 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:08:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from daemon) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:08:31 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <939t8v$f6r$1@kemoauc.mips.inka.de> References: <200101070506.f0756as07326@grumpy.dyndns.org> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly wrote: > I recommend ECC for everyone. The memory should be no more than 12% > more expensive. The real use of ECC isn't so much the real time > correction of errors, but for the real time *detection* of errors. Considering today's memory market, the greatest benefit from ECC is probably that you will automatically get quality memory that way. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 7 11:34:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from apoq.skynet.be (apoq.skynet.be [195.238.2.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3116637B400 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dialup1887.brussels.skynet.be [194.78.235.95]) by apoq.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id B062C9D08; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:34:09 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200101070600.f0760us11953@grumpy.dyndns.org> References: <200101070600.f0760us11953@grumpy.dyndns.org> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:22:08 +0100 To: David Kelly , Vincent Poy From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD? Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:00 AM -0600 2001/1/7, David Kelly wrote: > The PowerBook doesn't have PCMCIA. But like the G4 tower it has > Firewire and an Airport slot. Only reason I would have wanted PCMCIA > was for the compact flash card used in my Kodak DC-290. Then again its > not really an issue because the USB interface has been satisfactory. I'm using a G3 PowerBook now, and it definitely *does* have PCMCIA. In fact, the "Wall Street" model has two PCMCIA slots (I'm using one of them for a Lucent WaveLAN card that I use in conjunction with an Apple AirPort base station). The newer "Bronze" model has only one PCMCIA slot, but it also has an internal AirPort "slot". -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 7 11:34:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from apoq.skynet.be (apoq.skynet.be [195.238.2.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9ADF37B402 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:34:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dialup1887.brussels.skynet.be [194.78.235.95]) by apoq.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id E56979D3F; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:34:12 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200101070449.f074nCs07491@grumpy.dyndns.org> References: <200101070449.f074nCs07491@grumpy.dyndns.org> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:25:29 +0100 To: David Kelly From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD? Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:49 PM -0600 2001/1/6, David Kelly wrote: > Doesn't sound like a very good bargain when new Apple PowerMac G4's are > $1295 for a G4 400 MHz, 64MB, 20G, 56k modem, 10/100/1000 ethernet, 64 > bit PCI slots, and DVD. Yeah, I know. I could certainly do this, but I was kind of hoping to be able to put the older machine back to some use for a semi-reasonable amount of money, as opposed to it just sitting on the floor. -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 7 13:43:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (spaz.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D22737B402 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 13:42:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32841; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:40:47 GMT (envelope-from kris@catonic.net) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:40:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Kris Kirby X-Sender: kris@spaz.huntsvilleal.com To: Francisco Reyes Cc: David Kelly , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Tech-Support-Email: bofh@catonic.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > As for MBs? The new VIA KT133 does *not* do ECC (Asus A7V) but am told > > the older KX133 does. > Do you know by any chance which motherboards use the old KX133? > Doesn't this affect sales of Athlon CPUs for servers? After all that has > been historically the market for ECC. I'm thinking the older KX133 is on the Asus K7V. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 7 15:23:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (user-24-214-56-41.knology.net [24.214.56.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43FD937B402 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:23:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f07NNAZ73990; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:23:10 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Message-Id: <200101072323.f07NNAZ73990@grumpy.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Brad Knowles Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List From: David Kelly Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Message from Brad Knowles of "Sun, 07 Jan 2001 20:22:08 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 17:23:10 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brad Knowles writes: > At 12:00 AM -0600 2001/1/7, David Kelly wrote: > > > The PowerBook doesn't have PCMCIA. But like the G4 tower it has > > Firewire and an Airport slot. Only reason I would have wanted PCMCIA > > was for the compact flash card used in my Kodak DC-290. Then again its > > not really an issue because the USB interface has been satisfactory. > > I'm using a G3 PowerBook now, and it definitely *does* have > PCMCIA. In fact, the "Wall Street" model has two PCMCIA slots (I'm > using one of them for a Lucent WaveLAN card that I use in conjunction > with an Apple AirPort base station). The newer "Bronze" model has > only one PCMCIA slot, but it also has an internal AirPort "slot". That's good to know because in searching the pdf datasheet from Apple specifically for PCMCIA I didn't find anything but the AirPort reference. Then again, I read it, rather than a more accurate "Find..." search. AirPort socket looks awfully similar to PCMCIA. Just harder to get to. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 7 15:39:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web10303.mail.yahoo.com (web10303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 539F537B400 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:39:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20010107233915.77102.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [159.134.179.157] by web10303.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:39:15 GMT Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:39:15 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?fergus?= Reply-To: tofergus@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD? To: Brad Knowles , FreeBSD Chat Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org i'm not bang up to date so you'll have to forgive me if i'm out. there are a few incarnations of linux for the powerpc & they're ok with anything pci based (i was looking for a nu-bus imp. - there are a few of them too but i wouldn't get too excited). can't remember the names of them all but yellowdog is certainly one & if you dig you'll find four or five more . . . including - i believe the darwin project which is based on freebsd. basically, try yellowdog - it's nice. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 7 16:14:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E9237B402 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 16:13:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29304; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:43:36 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 10:43:36 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Francisco Reyes Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Cc: FreeBSD Chat List Cc: FreeBSD Chat List , Francisco Reyes , David Kelly Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 07-Jan-01 Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote: > > Unless a memory chip fails catastrophically, its hard to find the errant > > chip. When they go bad they usually start logging an ECC correction > > every day or two. > Where does that get reported? As I understand ECC is handled by the > motherboard. The chipset reports them.. I think an error generates an NMI and a correction has to be read out of a chipset specific register. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 1:38:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from apoq.skynet.be (apoq.skynet.be [195.238.2.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB58F37B402 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 01:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.17.1.121] (warp-core.skynet.be [195.238.2.25]) by apoq.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810C19CB8; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:36:40 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200101072323.f07NNAZ73990@grumpy.dyndns.org> References: <200101072323.f07NNAZ73990@grumpy.dyndns.org> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:21:12 +0100 To: David Kelly From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD? Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 5:23 PM -0600 2001/1/7, David Kelly wrote: > That's good to know because in searching the pdf datasheet from Apple > specifically for PCMCIA I didn't find anything but the AirPort > reference. Then again, I read it, rather than a more accurate "Find..." > search. That's because it's no longer called a PCMCIA slot -- it's now called a "PC Card" slot. ;-) > AirPort socket looks awfully similar to PCMCIA. Just harder to get to. Pretty much. The AirPort cards are just Lucent WaveLAN cards with the antenna portion removed and replaced with connections for the built-in antennas that are found on compatible machines. In fact, on the Apple AirPort base station, they use real Lucent WaveLAN "Turbo 11Mb Silver" cards (now from the Orinoco family), and if you open it up you can replace them with something that does better encryption (such as the WaveLAN Gold). See for details. Of course, all of the AirPort cards are emasculated versions of the WaveLAN Silver as well, so if you plan to use "real" AirPort cards, there is no sense in upgrading the base station. -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 2:17:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CBF37B698 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 02:16:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA93118; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:16:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Hard drive copy protection a myth? From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Jan 2001 11:16:47 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 31 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Excerpt from the latest RISKS digest: > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 06:35:10 -0500 > From: "Gelsinger, Patrick P" > Subject: Re: IBM and Intel push copy protection ... (Gilmore, RISKS-21.17) > > [Received via Dave Farber, whom Patrick had requested to post a correction.] > > Content protection technology misinformation generates negative web-press > coverage: > > An article on *The Register* website "Stealth plan puts copy protection into > every hard drive" contains false information that the 4C's (Intel, IBM, MEI, > Toshiba) Content Protection for Recordable Media (CPRM) is to be applied to > all PC hard drives. It is misinterpreting a specification for use of CPRM > with the Compact Flash media format (which supports either semiconductor > flash memory or IBM microdrives) probably because Compact Flash uses the > same command protocol interface as standard PC harddrives. The technology > is neither intended nor licensed for use with PC harddrives and is optional > even for the supported media types (flash memory and microdrives). John > Gilmore, a noted privacy and consumer advocate, has picked up the article > and further propagated the erroneous information and mentioned Intel > "IBM&Intel push copy protection into ordinary disk drives". I have alerted > public relations at Intel and are disseminating accurate information within > Intel and among our industry contacts. > > Pat DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 2:23:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2A5337B6A3 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 02:21:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA93133; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:21:23 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: David Kelly Cc: Brad Knowles , FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD? References: <200101070449.f074nCs07491@grumpy.dyndns.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Jan 2001 11:21:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: David Kelly's message of "Sat, 06 Jan 2001 22:49:11 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly writes: > While FreeBSD isn't working on PowerPC port of BSD Wrong. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 8: 4:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD5C37B400 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:04:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA96721; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:03:11 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:03:10 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: "Daniel O'Connor" Cc: Francisco Reyes , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wow... people REALLY need to check their CC's. That was bad. Two CCs to chat and two CCs to Francisco Reyes. On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > On 07-Jan-01 Francisco Reyes wrote: > > On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote: > > > Unless a memory chip fails catastrophically, its hard to find the errant > > > chip. When they go bad they usually start logging an ECC correction > > > every day or two. > > Where does that get reported? As I understand ECC is handled by the > > motherboard. > > The chipset reports them.. I think an error generates an NMI and a > correction has to be read out of a chipset specific register. AFAIK, with every X86 chipset I've used at least, the correction happens automatically, and the NMI is only there to alert you that it has happened. Most systems will let you turn the NMI off for corrections and only issue an NMI for an un-correctable error. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 8:43:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218BB37B400 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from zoraida.reyes.somos.net (zoraida.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.15]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA64679; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:39:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:47:35 -0500 (EST) From: Francisco Reyes To: Chris Dillon Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , FreeBSD Chat List , David Kelly Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Chris Dillon wrote: > AFAIK, with every X86 chipset I've used at least, the correction > happens automatically, and the NMI is only there to alert you that it > has happened. Most systems will let you turn the NMI off for > corrections and only issue an NMI for an un-correctable error. But how will it "alert"? Will show up on the screen? I finally found an Athlon Tbird motherboard that supports ECC. Contrary to previous info IT IS KT133. Abit K7V (I think that is the model.. it is an Abit board anyway). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 10:38: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAF937B747 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA98963; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:14:54 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:14:53 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: Francisco Reyes Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , FreeBSD Chat List , David Kelly Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Chris Dillon wrote: > > > AFAIK, with every X86 chipset I've used at least, the correction > > happens automatically, and the NMI is only there to alert you that it > > has happened. Most systems will let you turn the NMI off for > > corrections and only issue an NMI for an un-correctable error. > > But how will it "alert"? Will show up on the screen? It alerts the OS by issuing an NMI (Non-Maskable Interrupt). What happens after that is up to the OS. The OS will generally as a "bad thing" and halt. AFAIK, FreeBSD will always panic whenever it receives an NMI (unless possibly you specify the NMI_POWERFAIL option in your kernel config), so I simply turn off NMIs for correctable errors and leave the NMI on for non-correctable errors. That way FreeBSD will not panic when a correction has happened and it can carry on its merry business, but it will take the proper action by panicing when a non-correctable error has happened. > I finally found an Athlon Tbird motherboard that supports ECC. > Contrary to previous info IT IS KT133. Abit K7V (I think that is > the model.. it is an Abit board anyway). I wouldn't trust any of those VIA chipsets, especially to do ECC. You'd be better off getting a motherboard with an Intel 440BX chipset and a processor to match (wether its a Celeron, PII, PIII). I'm not sure if the newer Intel 815 does ECC or not, but it would be a better option if it does. If you're rabid Anti-Intel, either get a board with AMD's 750 chipset (the first Athlon chipset) and a supported processor, or get a board with their newest 760 chipset, which you might have a hard time finding at the moment. If money is no object, your best bet is to get a motherboard with one of the ServerWorks chipsets on it (very sweet chipset), which unfortunately only support Intel processors at the moment. One of those motherboards will set you back about $600 or more, but they're the only option, IMHO, for a good X86 server. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 14: 4:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D54337B72E for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:30:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca (milquetoast.CS.McGill.CA [132.206.2.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E616E2AFD for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:10:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mat@localhost) by milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13206 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:10:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:10:00 -0500 From: Mathew KANNER To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FBSD rocks yet again Message-ID: <20010108160959.E16405@cs.mcgill.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, CANADA Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We just moved out backup server to FreeBSD. Turns out, we can restore from solaris, hpux and linux with the standard issue restore!!! Or should I say, UFS rocks. --Mat -- Mathew Kanner SOCS McGill University Obtuse quote: He [not me] understands: "This field of perception is void of perception of man." -- The Quintessence of Buddhism To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 14:35:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFC7D37B400 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:35:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07189; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:34:43 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010108120741.04677c60@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:11:47 -0700 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Hard drive copy protection a myth? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:16 AM 1/8/2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >Excerpt from the latest RISKS digest: [Snip] >> An article on *The Register* website "Stealth plan puts copy protection into >> every hard drive" contains false information that the 4C's (Intel, IBM, MEI, >> Toshiba) Content Protection for Recordable Media (CPRM) is to be applied to >> all PC hard drives. It is misinterpreting a specification for use of CPRM >> with the Compact Flash media format (which supports either semiconductor >> flash memory or IBM microdrives) probably because Compact Flash uses the >> same command protocol interface as standard PC harddrives. Nonsense. It's being promoted as a general extension to the ATA (not even ATAPI, but ATA!) spec. This means that it can be used in any ATA device. And will. Content providers are hardly worried about copying onto CompactFlash -- or at least they shouldn't be. The capacity is small, and the data on CompactFlash generally comes from hard drives unless the user created it (e.g. in a digital camera). Copy-protecting CompactFlash would be annoying, but wouldn't stop most of the copying that the content providers want to stop. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 15:27:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns3.tstt.net.tt (ns3.tstt.net.tt [196.3.132.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F6D37B402 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:27:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from uwi.tt (cuscon4570.tstt.net.tt [209.94.221.76]) by ns3.tstt.net.tt (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f08MYmN136534 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 18:34:55 -0400 Message-ID: <3A5A4084.514A08C9@uwi.tt> Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 18:34:44 -0400 From: Dale Chulhan - Home Organization: COSTAATT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: [Fwd: IDE HD recommendations] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D2E319DC449F8113F79FA48E" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D2E319DC449F8113F79FA48E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------D2E319DC449F8113F79FA48E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3A577C75.1C45D421@uwi.tt> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 16:13:41 -0400 From: Dale Chulhan - Home Organization: COSTAATT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael VanLoon Subject: Re: IDE HD recommendations References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stoopid but this is an appropriate thread to ask. In a few simple lines is it now completely safe to use large drives ( IDE ) with out fear of the cylinders, translation problem? I guess that you guys know what I'm reffering to. Q: If I install Win98 on the first partition of a equally partitioned 20GB drive will I run into any problems installing free bsd in the second partition of the the drive? --------------D2E319DC449F8113F79FA48E-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 16: 6:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2B1937B6E6 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14150; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:35:36 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 10:35:35 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Chris Dillon Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Cc: David Kelly , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Francisco Reyes Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 08-Jan-01 Chris Dillon wrote: > AFAIK, with every X86 chipset I've used at least, the correction > happens automatically, and the NMI is only there to alert you that it > has happened. Most systems will let you turn the NMI off for > corrections and only issue an NMI for an un-correctable error. IMHO it's very useful to be able to read the number of corrections.. Good for justifying the extra cost :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 16: 6:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A592137B404 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14181; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:36:23 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 10:36:23 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Chris Dillon Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Cc: David Kelly Cc: David Kelly , FreeBSD Chat List , Francisco Reyes Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 08-Jan-01 Chris Dillon wrote: > thing" and halt. AFAIK, FreeBSD will always panic whenever it > receives an NMI (unless possibly you specify the NMI_POWERFAIL option > in your kernel config), so I simply turn off NMIs for correctable > errors and leave the NMI on for non-correctable errors. That way > FreeBSD will not panic when a correction has happened and it can carry > on its merry business, but it will take the proper action by panicing > when a non-correctable error has happened. I think 4.x doesn't panic on ECC NMI's anymore but I'm not sure. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 16:35:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE7137B400 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04758; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 18:34:39 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 18:34:39 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: "Daniel O'Connor" Cc: David Kelly , FreeBSD Chat List , Francisco Reyes Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 08-Jan-01 Chris Dillon wrote: > > thing" and halt. AFAIK, FreeBSD will always panic whenever it > > receives an NMI (unless possibly you specify the NMI_POWERFAIL option > > in your kernel config), so I simply turn off NMIs for correctable > > errors and leave the NMI on for non-correctable errors. That way > > FreeBSD will not panic when a correction has happened and it can carry > > on its merry business, but it will take the proper action by panicing > > when a non-correctable error has happened. > > I think 4.x doesn't panic on ECC NMI's anymore but I'm not sure. Out of curiosity, how does the OS know exactly what event triggered the NMI? I know what an NMI can mean, but I don't know what it REALLY IS, you know what I mean? The technical answer for exactly what an NMI is and what it consists of is welcome. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 17:34:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F5A37B400 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15615; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:02:52 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 12:02:52 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Chris Dillon Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Cc: Francisco Reyes Cc: Francisco Reyes , FreeBSD Chat List , David Kelly Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 09-Jan-01 Chris Dillon wrote: > > I think 4.x doesn't panic on ECC NMI's anymore but I'm not sure. > Out of curiosity, how does the OS know exactly what event triggered > the NMI? I know what an NMI can mean, but I don't know what it REALLY > IS, you know what I mean? The technical answer for exactly what an > NMI is and what it consists of is welcome. :-) Yeah, sorry I don't have a clue :) I'm sure someone out there does.. Answer us damnit! :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 17:42:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D37937B401 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:42:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f091dXG52739; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:39:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:41:36 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: "Daniel O'Connor" Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Cc: David Kelly Cc: David Kelly , FreeBSD Chat List , Francisco Reyes , Chris Dillon Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 09-Jan-01 Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 09-Jan-01 Chris Dillon wrote: >> > I think 4.x doesn't panic on ECC NMI's anymore but I'm not sure. >> Out of curiosity, how does the OS know exactly what event triggered >> the NMI? I know what an NMI can mean, but I don't know what it REALLY >> IS, you know what I mean? The technical answer for exactly what an >> NMI is and what it consists of is welcome. :-) > > Yeah, sorry I don't have a clue :) > > I'm sure someone out there does.. Answer us damnit! :) Check out src/sys/i386/isa/intr_machdep.c:isa_nmi(). -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 17:54:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.iadfw.net (mail2.iadfw.net [206.66.12.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E656B37B69B for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jason from [64.31.207.237] by mail2.iadfw.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.26) with smtp for sender: id ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:53:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <008d01c079df$baaad680$edcf1f40@pdq.net> From: "Jason Smethers" To: "Chris Dillon" Cc: References: Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:58:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: "Chris Dillon" > Out of curiosity, how does the OS know exactly what event triggered > the NMI? I know what an NMI can mean, but I don't know what it REALLY > IS, you know what I mean? The technical answer for exactly what an > NMI is and what it consists of is welcome. :-) I'll take a shot, though it has been a while since I did anything with interrupts, and this bypasses the explanation of interrupts delivered by memory instead of hardware... Basically you have two types of interrupts. There are Maskable Interrupts such as those delivered by software or hardware that need servicing but can be ignored, usually once the request has been accepted. These interrupts can be masked off in the [A]PIC ([Advanced] Programmable Interrupt Controller) so that further interrupts are not received until the mask is reset. Then there are Non-Maskable Interrupts (NMI). These interrupts can not be ignored and are serviced immediately. The processor usually receives the interrupt as any other except that a pin on the processor is asserted to make it a NMI. - Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 8 19: 6:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A90D237B400; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:06:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f09349G54243; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:04:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 19:06:13 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: John Baldwin Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Cc: Chris Dillon Cc: Chris Dillon , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSD Chat List , David Kelly , "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 09-Jan-01 John Baldwin wrote: > > On 09-Jan-01 Daniel O'Connor wrote: >> >> On 09-Jan-01 Chris Dillon wrote: >>> > I think 4.x doesn't panic on ECC NMI's anymore but I'm not sure. >>> Out of curiosity, how does the OS know exactly what event triggered >>> the NMI? I know what an NMI can mean, but I don't know what it REALLY >>> IS, you know what I mean? The technical answer for exactly what an >>> NMI is and what it consists of is welcome. :-) >> >> Yeah, sorry I don't have a clue :) >> >> I'm sure someone out there does.. Answer us damnit! :) > > Check out src/sys/i386/isa/intr_machdep.c:isa_nmi(). Erm, this answers how to find out what event triggers an NMI or at least to narrow it down a bit. This function is called from within trap() in src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c. An NMI is simple a Non-Maskable Interrupt. Maskable Interrupts can be masked/disabled by clearing the interrupt flag (IF) in the flags register via the 'cli' instruction, or by using 'popf' to load a value into the flags reg with IF cleared. An NMI is not masked by IF though, and will always fire. Usually an NMI means that the machine is badly hosed and that you are pretty much screwed. However, an NMI switch can also be rigged to allow one to break into the debugger on a machine that is spinning with interrupts disabled. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 0:51:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from citusc.usc.edu (citusc.usc.edu [128.125.38.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7D137B404 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:51:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kris@localhost) by citusc.usc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA18281; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:52:20 -0800 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:52:20 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hard drive copy protection a myth? Message-ID: <20010109005220.A18239@citusc.usc.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:16:47AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:16:47AM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Excerpt from the latest RISKS digest: The Register dissected this and came to the conclusion that basically this was spin control after the fact, and that other evidence supported the intent of use in fixed media. Kris --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6WtFEWry0BWjoQKURAqRoAJ9SvLG4fEZwvonATZisugZMwG9lQwCeI7ki Cs4zz8XexDo9pNECTd4W+/s= =3AAq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 8:32:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 537EA37B6B4 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:32:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15678; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:31:51 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:31:50 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: Jason Smethers Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-Reply-To: <008d01c079df$baaad680$edcf1f40@pdq.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Jason Smethers wrote: > From: "Chris Dillon" > > Out of curiosity, how does the OS know exactly what event triggered > > the NMI? I know what an NMI can mean, but I don't know what it > REALLY > > IS, you know what I mean? The technical answer for exactly what an > > NMI is and what it consists of is welcome. :-) > > I'll take a shot, though it has been a while since I did anything with > interrupts, and this bypasses the explanation of interrupts delivered > by memory instead of hardware... > > Basically you have two types of interrupts. > > There are Maskable Interrupts such as those delivered by software > or hardware that need servicing but can be ignored, usually once > the request has been accepted. These interrupts can be masked off > in the [A]PIC ([Advanced] Programmable Interrupt Controller) so > that further interrupts are not received until the mask is reset. > > Then there are Non-Maskable Interrupts (NMI). These interrupts can > not be ignored and are serviced immediately. The processor usually > receives the interrupt as any other except that a pin on the > processor is asserted to make it a NMI. That clears a lot up. I'm beginning to remember a discussion about NMIs a couple of years ago that happened on one of these lists. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 9:33: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E04137B69C; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 09:32:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16917; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:32:40 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:32:39 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: John Baldwin Cc: Francisco Reyes , FreeBSD Chat List , David Kelly , "Daniel O'Connor" Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, John Baldwin wrote: > On 09-Jan-01 John Baldwin wrote: > > > > On 09-Jan-01 Daniel O'Connor wrote: > >> > >> On 09-Jan-01 Chris Dillon wrote: > >>> > I think 4.x doesn't panic on ECC NMI's anymore but I'm not sure. > >>> Out of curiosity, how does the OS know exactly what event triggered > >>> the NMI? I know what an NMI can mean, but I don't know what it REALLY > >>> IS, you know what I mean? The technical answer for exactly what an > >>> NMI is and what it consists of is welcome. :-) > >> > >> Yeah, sorry I don't have a clue :) > >> > >> I'm sure someone out there does.. Answer us damnit! :) > > > > Check out src/sys/i386/isa/intr_machdep.c:isa_nmi(). > > Erm, this answers how to find out what event triggers an NMI or at > least to narrow it down a bit. This function is called from > within trap() in src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c. An NMI is simple a > Non-Maskable Interrupt. Maskable Interrupts can be > masked/disabled by clearing the interrupt flag (IF) in the flags > register via the 'cli' instruction, or by using 'popf' to load a > value into the flags reg with IF cleared. An NMI is not masked by > IF though, and will always fire. Usually an NMI means that the > machine is badly hosed and that you are pretty much screwed. > However, an NMI switch can also be rigged to allow one to break > into the debugger on a machine that is spinning with interrupts > disabled. Aah, yes, I remember now. I thought I knew at one time what an NMI really was, but it slipped away. I actually remember the discussion a couple of years ago on one of these lists that actually talked about implementing an NMI switch to get into the debugger, just as you've mentioned. :-) So, if I understand what is in isa_nmi() correctly, it should be possible to find out which NMIs a particular chipset is going to throw when a correctable ECC error has ocurred, and when a non-correctable error has ocurred. I also assume there is no "standard" for this, or we would have already done it. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 9:49:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A841C37B6D8 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 09:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f09HkJG65170; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 09:46:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 09:48:32 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: Chris Dillon Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , David Kelly , FreeBSD Chat List , Francisco Reyes Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 09-Jan-01 Chris Dillon wrote: > On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, John Baldwin wrote: > >> On 09-Jan-01 John Baldwin wrote: >> > >> > On 09-Jan-01 Daniel O'Connor wrote: >> >> >> >> On 09-Jan-01 Chris Dillon wrote: >> >>> > I think 4.x doesn't panic on ECC NMI's anymore but I'm not sure. >> >>> Out of curiosity, how does the OS know exactly what event triggered >> >>> the NMI? I know what an NMI can mean, but I don't know what it REALLY >> >>> IS, you know what I mean? The technical answer for exactly what an >> >>> NMI is and what it consists of is welcome. :-) >> >> >> >> Yeah, sorry I don't have a clue :) >> >> >> >> I'm sure someone out there does.. Answer us damnit! :) >> > >> > Check out src/sys/i386/isa/intr_machdep.c:isa_nmi(). >> >> Erm, this answers how to find out what event triggers an NMI or at >> least to narrow it down a bit. This function is called from >> within trap() in src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c. An NMI is simple a >> Non-Maskable Interrupt. Maskable Interrupts can be >> masked/disabled by clearing the interrupt flag (IF) in the flags >> register via the 'cli' instruction, or by using 'popf' to load a >> value into the flags reg with IF cleared. An NMI is not masked by >> IF though, and will always fire. Usually an NMI means that the >> machine is badly hosed and that you are pretty much screwed. >> However, an NMI switch can also be rigged to allow one to break >> into the debugger on a machine that is spinning with interrupts >> disabled. > > Aah, yes, I remember now. I thought I knew at one time what an NMI > really was, but it slipped away. I actually remember the discussion a > couple of years ago on one of these lists that actually talked about > implementing an NMI switch to get into the debugger, just as you've > mentioned. :-) > > So, if I understand what is in isa_nmi() correctly, it should be > possible to find out which NMIs a particular chipset is going to throw > when a correctable ECC error has ocurred, and when a non-correctable > error has ocurred. I also assume there is no "standard" for this, or > we would have already done it. :-) This is correct. :) There does not seem to be a standard unfortunately, though I do think that Paul Saab (ps@FreeBSD.org) has been working on this some. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 10:18:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5CE37B6A3; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:18:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17785; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:18:14 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:18:14 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: John Baldwin Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , David Kelly , FreeBSD Chat List , Francisco Reyes Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, John Baldwin wrote: > > So, if I understand what is in isa_nmi() correctly, it should be > > possible to find out which NMIs a particular chipset is going to throw > > when a correctable ECC error has ocurred, and when a non-correctable > > error has ocurred. I also assume there is no "standard" for this, or > > we would have already done it. :-) > > This is correct. :) There does not seem to be a standard > unfortunately, though I do think that Paul Saab (ps@FreeBSD.org) > has been working on this some. It LOOKS simple enough, but looks are always deceiving. I'll take a shot at it if someone can point me at some documentation for the Intel 440BX and the RCC ServerWorks chipsets (hopefully NOT under NDA), which are the two chipsets I use in most of my FreeBSD boxen. I'll nose around on Intel's developer site and on the ServerWorks site to see if they have any info. I can already forsee one problem, though... How would I TEST it? I don't have any flaky ECC memory lying around. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 10:21:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from trinity.skynet.be (trinity.skynet.be [195.238.2.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A163D37B6A3 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:21:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.17.1.121] (warp-core.skynet.be [195.238.2.25]) by trinity.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8925D197EE for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 19:20:36 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 19:17:01 +0100 To: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List From: Brad Knowles Subject: Breakdown of FreeBSD content? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Folks, I'm in the final stages of setting up a new (rebuilt) anonymous ftp server (yes, it's running FreeBSD), and once this process is complete I'll have the old ftp server that we can re-use for other purposes -- ones that my co-workers and I are more likely to care about for our own reasons, such as setting up mirrors of Unix-related sites. I'm trying to get an idea of how much disk space it would take to set up a mirror of FreeBSD, but broken down on a per-platform/per-version basis, so that I can get a better idea of how much I can cut things down by skipping some of the older versions, skipping platforms we don't care so much about, etc.... I spoke with David Greenman about this issue, and he was able to tell me that the full FreeBSD site weighs in around 50GB right now (although my calculations on the ls-lR from ftp.freesoftware.com indicates it should be more like 63GB), but he is unfortunately so busy that he's not able to provide me any more detail than this. Has anyone else on this mailing list looked at this issue recently? Does anyone here run a mirror of a reduced portion of the FreeBSD site (e.g., x86-only, 4.0-RELEASE and above) and can give me some real-world statistics based on your site? Thanks! -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 10:24: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1E5737B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 14G3Qt-000A6N-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:23:43 +0000 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f09INgR09228 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:23:42 GMT (envelope-from jcm) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:23:42 +0000 From: j mckitrick To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: .net, musings, and assorted ramblings Message-ID: <20010109182342.A8463@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We just got the beta 1 of .net here at work. Any thoughts on where this is going? I heard there are *nix clones of a few other apps like VB, but is this next 'revolution' going to have any real impact? Win2k seems to have made a big splash, at least in stability, if not raw sales. A Republican is the new president. M$ seems to be looking pretty good right now. I have a CDrom of the .net 'vaporware', and I'm wondering if it's going to matter? Or is the table reversed? Will Unix matter anymore? Is Sun going to get their act together and fight the .net campaign, or just trip over themselves trying to decide just *what* their software strategy will be? Just wanted to get the thoughts of all the BSD folks here on chat, 'specially those "in the know". ;) jcm -- o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o | ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 10:36:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 024C937B6A6 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:36:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19104; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:29:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200101091829.KAA19104@implode.root.com> To: Brad Knowles Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Subject: Re: Breakdown of FreeBSD content? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 09 Jan 2001 19:17:01 +0100." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 10:29:06 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I spoke with David Greenman about this issue, and he was able to >tell me that the full FreeBSD site weighs in around 50GB right now >(although my calculations on the ls-lR from ftp.freesoftware.com >indicates it should be more like 63GB), but he is unfortunately so >busy that he's not able to provide me any more detail than this. It was about 45GB a few months ago; you're probably right about it being closer to 65GB as we've grown a release or two in i386/releases since then. -DG David Greenman Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 16:15:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from updraft.jp.freebsd.org (updraft.jp.FreeBSD.ORG [210.157.158.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 012D837B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:15:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by updraft.jp.freebsd.org (8.11.1+3.4W/8.11.1) with ESMTP/inet id f0A0FC800435; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:15:17 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: X-Face: '*aj"d@ijeQ:/X}]oM5c5Uz{ZZZk90WPt>a^y4$cGQp8:!H\W=hSM;PuNiidkc]/%,;6VGu e+`&APmz|P;F~OL/QK%;P2vU>\j4X.8@i%j6[%DTs_3J,Fff0)*oHg$A.cDm&jc#pD24WK@{,"Ef!0 P\):.2}8jo-BiZ?X&t$V X-User-Agent: Mew/1.94.2 XEmacs/21.2 (Persephone) X-FaceAnim: (-O_O-)(O_O- )(_O- )(O- )(- -)( -O)( -O_)( -O_O)(-O_O-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 10 From: Makoto MATSUSHITA To: blk@skynet.be Subject: Re: Breakdown of FreeBSD content? Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:15:00 +0900 Message-Id: <20010110091500N.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org blk> Has anyone else on this mailing list looked at this issue blk> recently? Does anyone here run a mirror of a reduced portion blk> of the FreeBSD site (e.g., x86-only, 4.0-RELEASE and above) blk> and can give me some real-world statistics based on your site? is for you. -- - Makoto `MAR' MATSUSHITA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 17:19:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from apoq.skynet.be (apoq.skynet.be [195.238.2.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D52C537B401 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:19:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dialup518.brussels2.skynet.be [195.238.25.6]) by apoq.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EBFC991B; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:19:19 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010110091500N.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> References: <20010110091500N.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:17:33 +0100 To: Makoto MATSUSHITA From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Breakdown of FreeBSD content? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 9:15 AM +0900 2001/1/10, Makoto MATSUSHITA wrote: > is for you. Thanks for the info! Now, does anyone know why ports/distfiles is ~6GB and whether this needs to be included on a typical mirror? What about ports/i386 (~23GB) and ports/alpha (~9GB)? In fact, the entire ports subsystem appears to be about 39GB in size, but IIRC, the behaviour I've seen is that the Makefile tries the "standard" primary source for the tarball(s), then the main FreeBSD ftp server(s?), and then may alternatively fall through to any of a small selection of other machines. It would seem to me that it would not be a real loss for a mirror site to omit the ports subsystem. What about the development/ tree at about 3.5GB? I assume that the releases/alpha stuff could be left off (at about 1.75GB), but does anyone know what could relatively safely be left out of releases/i386/ISO-IMAGES (~2.5GB)? Thanks! -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 17:39:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3C5637B404 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:39:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19945; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:37:26 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010109173437.047ebe40@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:37:15 -0700 To: Francisco Reyes , Chris Dillon From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , FreeBSD Chat List , David Kelly In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just bought a KT133 motherboard -- an EPoX EP-8KTA2 -- from 2K Computing. (They offer special pricing on computershopper.com.) I'll be running it with a 1.1 GHz T-Bird. The board is documented at http://www.epox.com/html/english/products/motherboard/ep-8kta2.htm and got pretty good reviews. However, I don't think that it supports ECC. While some third parties (i.e. resellers) say that the chipset supports ECC, the motherboard manufacturer doesn. And Via's documentation of the North Bridge chip at http://www.viatech.com/pdf/productinfo/kt133.pdf makes no mention at all of ECC. The similar spec sheet for the KX133 does mention ECC. I tend to believe the chip manufacturer in such situations. --Brett At 09:47 AM 1/8/2001, Francisco Reyes wrote: >On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Chris Dillon wrote: > >> AFAIK, with every X86 chipset I've used at least, the correction >> happens automatically, and the NMI is only there to alert you that it >> has happened. Most systems will let you turn the NMI off for >> corrections and only issue an NMI for an un-correctable error. > >But how will it "alert"? Will show up on the screen? > >I finally found an Athlon Tbird motherboard that supports ECC. >Contrary to previous info IT IS KT133. >Abit K7V (I think that is the model.. it is an Abit board anyway). > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 18:27:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (user-24-214-56-41.knology.net [24.214.56.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F6D037B401 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:26:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0A2QNR65771; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 20:26:24 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Message-Id: <200101100226.f0A2QNR65771@grumpy.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Chris Dillon Cc: FreeBSD Chat List From: David Kelly Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-reply-to: Message from Chris Dillon of "Tue, 09 Jan 2001 12:18:14 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 20:26:23 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Dillon writes: > It LOOKS simple enough, but looks are always deceiving. I'll take a > shot at it if someone can point me at some documentation for the Intel > 440BX and the RCC ServerWorks chipsets (hopefully NOT under NDA), > which are the two chipsets I use in most of my FreeBSD boxen. I'll > nose around on Intel's developer site and on the ServerWorks site to > see if they have any info. > > I can already forsee one problem, though... How would I TEST it? I > don't have any flaky ECC memory lying around. :-) The only way I've found to "test" to see if a MB which says it does parity and/or ECC is to put narrow memory in it while enabling ECC or parity. If it bombs then its telling at least some of the truth. In the Bad Old Days when PC's were expensive cheap junk (rather than inexpensive) there were many MB's with a parity switch in the BIOS config yet made no difference what memory was installed. Anyway, if you have a trap in the FreeBSD kernel for handling ECC errors, if it can get past the boot phases without the BIOS enabling the feature, then FreeBSD could blow up and demonstrate the ECC report handler. Don't think that will work because the system would bomb the instant BIOS enabled ECC if you didn't have wide enough memory. Another way to test is if you knew how to enable the ECC feature on the chipset, enable it after FreeBSD is up and running with non-ECC or parity memory. A kernel switch maybe? Then disable it in the test ECC handler after a certain number of instances. Nope, that won't work because it will double fault for failing to repair an 8 bit fault when its only able to repair a 1 bit fault. Otherwise it would take a little hardware grafted onto a DIMM. Thinking of a flip flop that might collide with a data bit for one cycle only. And a switch for causing this single event on demand. Get really fancy and one could put an address decoder on the board to fault on one address only. A task for an FPGA guy. Roughly half the time it wouldn't work as a 1 would collide with a 1, or a 0 with a 0. Would want to be able to move the fault bit as some tests should be done on the data bits, and some should be done on the ECC/parity bits. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 18:33:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEECD37B401 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:33:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20549; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 19:32:07 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010109193013.0493ab50@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 19:31:58 -0700 To: j mckitrick , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: .net, musings, and assorted ramblings In-Reply-To: <20010109182342.A8463@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It shouldn't really be called .Net, but rather .Not or .Naught. It's a "placeholder" strategy while Mr. Ballmer tries to figure out what Microsoft can conquer next.... And while Microsoft fights to get the DoJ case thrown out on appeal. (All of the moves that'd be most advantageous to Microsoft right now would prejudice that case.) --Brett At 11:23 AM 1/9/2001, j mckitrick wrote: >We just got the beta 1 of .net here at work. Any thoughts on where this is >going? I heard there are *nix clones of a few other apps like VB, but is >this next 'revolution' going to have any real impact? > >Win2k seems to have made a big splash, at least in stability, if not raw >sales. A Republican is the new president. M$ seems to be looking pretty >good right now. I have a CDrom of the .net 'vaporware', and I'm wondering >if it's going to matter? Or is the table reversed? Will Unix matter >anymore? > >Is Sun going to get their act together and fight the .net campaign, or just >trip over themselves trying to decide just *what* their software strategy >will be? > >Just wanted to get the thoughts of all the BSD folks here on chat, >'specially those "in the know". ;) > >jcm >-- >o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o >| ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | >| "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | >o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 9 21:23:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ECD337B401 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 21:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA69752; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:18:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200101100518.AAA69752@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Brett Glass" , "Chris Dillon" Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , "David Kelly" , "FreeBSD Chat List" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:03:18 -0500 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010109173437.047ebe40@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:37:15 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >and got pretty good reviews. However, I don't think that it supports >ECC. While some third parties (i.e. resellers) say that the >chipset supports ECC, the motherboard manufacturer doesn. And Via's >documentation of the North Bridge chip at It probably doesn't support ECC. I ended up ordering a machine without ECC for now. Next machine in some months ahead I may just look for the 760 chipset. francisco Moderator of the Corporate BSD list http://www.egroups.com/group/BSD_Corporate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 4:11:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66F4237B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 04:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 14GK6I-000Bgf-00; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:11:34 +0000 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f0ACBY529958; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:11:34 GMT (envelope-from jcm) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:11:33 +0000 From: j mckitrick To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: .net, musings, and assorted ramblings Message-ID: <20010110121133.A29929@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010109182342.A8463@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010109193013.0493ab50@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010109193013.0493ab50@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 07:31:58PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 07:31:58PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: | It shouldn't really be called .Net, but rather .Not or .Naught. | | It's a "placeholder" strategy while Mr. Ballmer tries to figure out | what Microsoft can conquer next.... And while Microsoft fights to get | the DoJ case thrown out on appeal. (All of the moves that'd be | most advantageous to Microsoft right now would prejudice that | case.) Hmmm. It seems pretty darn sweeping and revolutionary. And they are also continuing their forays into video games machines, embedded OS's, and about every other field. The whole .NET strategy seems pretty cool. Reusable components on any machine, anywhere, used as a module from anywhere else, regardless of architecture or language. If there is one thing M$ does well, it is developer tools. Sure, under the hood, the quality is questionable, but they give the impression of being more advanced than anything else on the market. When you compare that with xterms, emacs, and cc, it sort of makes you wonder.... And where will Sun be during all of this? jcm -- o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o | ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 4:58:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns3.tstt.net.tt (ns3.tstt.net.tt [196.3.132.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A34E37B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 04:58:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from uwi.tt (cuscon4779.tstt.net.tt [209.94.222.31]) by ns3.tstt.net.tt (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f0ACvFN184856 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:57:17 -0400 Message-ID: <3A5C5C29.1FC3B205@uwi.tt> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:57:13 -0400 From: Dale Chulhan - Home Organization: COSTAATT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Does Size Really Matter ( Any More ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello in my beginning days of bsd and linux etc there were many documentations indicating that the root slice of FreeBSD cannot be beyond the 1024th cylinder. I was wondering if in today's now commonplace world of 20 and 80 GB drives if this still holds true. Take for example if I have a nice lil IBM or Seagate 40GB drive and I take the first half for Win98 and I Install FreeBSD on the second 20GB partition, what will be the consequences? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 7: 1: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC9C37B698 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:00:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32695; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:00:45 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:00:44 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: David Kelly Cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-Reply-To: <200101100226.f0A2QNR65771@grumpy.dyndns.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote: > Another way to test is if you knew how to enable the ECC feature > on the chipset, enable it after FreeBSD is up and running with > non-ECC or parity memory. A kernel switch maybe? Then disable it > in the test ECC handler after a certain number of instances. Nope, > that won't work because it will double fault for failing to repair > an 8 bit fault when its only able to repair a 1 bit fault. Yes, this might be possible. I found the datasheet on Intel's developer site for the 82443BX, and it mentions which chipset registers you need to poke at to enable and disable certain functions. Now, if it were as easy as identifying a new NMI "type" in intr_machdep.c:isa_nmi(), as I thought it might have been, it would have been a simple cut-n-paste job (about as much as I've ever done), but poking at the chipset registers is something I've never done before, and wouldn't even know where to start. :-) Incidentally, I did find out that when the chipset detects an uncorrectable ECC error (it corrects correctable errors in hardware, i.e. does "hardware scrubbing", so the OS need not take any action with correctable errors), it asserts SERR#, a hardware line. How the OS would know when this was asserted, or wether as a result of this an NMI is triggered, I don't know. > Otherwise it would take a little hardware grafted onto a DIMM. > Thinking of a flip flop that might collide with a data bit for one > cycle only. And a switch for causing this single event on demand. > Get really fancy and one could put an address decoder on the board > to fault on one address only. A task for an FPGA guy. I suppose I could always just waft a stainless-steel brush across some of the pins on the DIMM. ;-> -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 8: 9: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.iadfw.net (mail2.iadfw.net [206.66.12.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E88BE37B69E for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:08:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jason from [64.31.207.237] by mail2.iadfw.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.27) with smtp for sender: id ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:08:46 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <00d301c07b20$51f42aa0$edcf1f40@pdq.net> From: "Jason Smethers" To: "Chris Dillon" Cc: "FreeBSD Chat List" References: Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:13:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: "Chris Dillon" > Yes, this might be possible. I found the datasheet on Intel's > developer site for the 82443BX, and it mentions which chipset > registers you need to poke at to enable and disable certain functions. > Now, if it were as easy as identifying a new NMI "type" in > intr_machdep.c:isa_nmi(), as I thought it might have been, it would > have been a simple cut-n-paste job (about as much as I've ever done), > but poking at the chipset registers is something I've never done > before, and wouldn't even know where to start. :-) > > Incidentally, I did find out that when the chipset detects an > uncorrectable ECC error (it corrects correctable errors in hardware, > i.e. does "hardware scrubbing", so the OS need not take any action > with correctable errors), it asserts SERR#, a hardware line. How the > OS would know when this was asserted, or wether as a result of this an > NMI is triggered, I don't know. SERR should generate an NMI on IA-32 processors. You need to figure out how to check for an ECC error. Looking at the data sheet you need to do a four byte PCI configuration read of the EAP (Error Address Pointer Register) at offset 0x80. Bits 31:12 is the page that faulted, bit 1 is a multibit ECC error, and bit 0 is a single bit ECC error. Other Intel sheets show that this is chipset dependent. One way to do this currently may to add an ECC quirk extraction off the PCI bus that can be called to check the chipset for an ECC error then call this quirk routine as a last resort if there was no other explanation for the NMI. Looks like buying are reading all those Mindshare Inc. books is paying off =). - Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 13: 6:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C62237B6A0 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02799; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:04:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010110140119.04980410@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:04:24 -0700 To: "Francisco Reyes" , "Chris Dillon" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , "David Kelly" , "FreeBSD Chat List" In-Reply-To: <200101100518.AAA69752@sanson.reyes.somos.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010109173437.047ebe40@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:03 PM 1/9/2001, Francisco Reyes wrote: >It probably doesn't support ECC. I've got an e-mail in to Via Technologies, but I am not hopeful that the chipset supports ECC. It's a shame.... When you're doing up to 133 million accesses a second, it's nice to have some safeguards. But AMD and Via need to get into the mainstream consumer market, where price is an issue and ECC will rarely be used. I think that you can use the ECC-enabled North Bridge chip from the KX-133 chipset if you really need ECC. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 13:33: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (unknown [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEEB37B401 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0ALSfQ62448; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:28:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200101102128.f0ALSfQ62448@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: cup holders.. Re: please do not close the drive tray automatically. (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/dev/ata atapi-cd.c) In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:28:41 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Mike Smith writes: > > Closing the drive tray at what is effectively a random time violates the > > user interface model for the CDROM. I think it's a stunningly stupid > > idea (for the damage reasons that Matt gives as well as the semantic > > violations). > > "I booted FreeBSD and it tried to retract my cup holder, spilling > scalding coffee all over my keyboard and my lap. Now I'm going to sue > BSDI for compensation for the damage to my computer and my nads." > > Couldn't resist :) I should know better than to prolong the thread, but I know of at least one person here at work who *does* use it as a cup holder.... (Mostly as a joke, but yes, he actually does it!) Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 13:57:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06FB337B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:57:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 917806A90D; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:27:28 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:27:28 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Dale Chulhan - Home Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Does Size Really Matter ( Any More ) Message-ID: <20010111082728.D44170@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3A5C5C29.1FC3B205@uwi.tt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A5C5C29.1FC3B205@uwi.tt>; from dchulhan@uwi.tt on Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 08:57:13AM -0400 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 10 January 2001 at 8:57:13 -0400, Dale Chulhan - Home wrote: > Hello in my beginning days of bsd and linux etc there were many > documentations indicating that the root slice of FreeBSD cannot be > beyond the 1024th cylinder. > > I was wondering if in today's now commonplace world of 20 and 80 GB > drives if this still holds true. No. > Take for example if I have a nice lil IBM or Seagate 40GB drive and > I take the first half for Win98 and I Install FreeBSD on the second > 20GB partition, what will be the consequences? That will work for recent releases of FreeBSD and PC hardware. Why did you send this to -chat? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 14:29:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n37.san.rr.com (dt051n37.san.rr.com [204.210.32.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29F2B37B402 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:28:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from slave (Studded@slave [10.0.0.1]) by dt051n37.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA96140; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:27:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:27:13 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Barton X-X-Sender: To: Cliff Sarginson Cc: Kenneth Culver , Lanny Baron , Debbie Machado , Subject: Re: get married (was Re: In case I don't see yah: Good afternoon, In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Cliff Sarginson wrote: > God is open-sourced ? No, but he provides a pretty good training manual. :) -- "The most difficult thing in the world is to know how to do a thing and to watch someone else do it wrong without comment." -- Theodore H. White Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 15:26:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.registeredsite.com (mail5.registeredsite.com [64.224.9.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 401F437B69D for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:25:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.threespace.com (mail.threespace.com [216.247.134.44]) by mail5.registeredsite.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0ANPpn16634; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:25:55 -0500 Received: from ATLANTA.threespace.com [24.21.224.204] by mail.threespace.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.05) id AF6E19D0050; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:25:34 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010110182118.017422a0@mail.threespace.com> X-Sender: tech_info@mail.threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:25:11 -0500 To: Dale Chulhan - Home From: Technical Information Subject: Re: Does Size Really Matter ( Any More ) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3A5C5C29.1FC3B205@uwi.tt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yeah, size still does matter. On EIDE hard drives, you can create partitions anywhere, but you won't be able to directly boot any partition beyond the 1024th cylinder. Using the logical block addressing (LBA) on most large drives, this means anything more than 8 GB from the start the start of the drive. --Chip Morton At 07:57 AM 1/10/2001, Dale Chulhan - Home wrote: >Hello in my beginning days of bsd and linux etc there were many >documentations indicating that the root slice of FreeBSD cannot be >beyond the 1024th cylinder. > >I was wondering if in today's now commonplace world of 20 and 80 GB >drives if this still holds true. > >Take for example if I have a nice lil IBM or Seagate 40GB drive and I >take the first half for Win98 and I Install FreeBSD on the second 20GB >partition, what will be the consequences? > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 15:31:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C882C37B69F for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f0ANUM193683; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:30:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3A5C5C29.1FC3B205@uwi.tt> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:30:35 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: Dale Chulhan - Home Subject: RE: Does Size Really Matter ( Any More ) Cc: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 10-Jan-01 Dale Chulhan - Home wrote: > Hello in my beginning days of bsd and linux etc there were many > documentations indicating that the root slice of FreeBSD cannot be > beyond the 1024th cylinder. > > I was wondering if in today's now commonplace world of 20 and 80 GB > drives if this still holds true. > > Take for example if I have a nice lil IBM or Seagate 40GB drive and I > take the first half for Win98 and I Install FreeBSD on the second 20GB > partition, what will be the consequences? FreeBSD 4.1 or later will work fine from anywhere as long as your onboard BIOS is 1995 or later. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 17:41:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (spaz.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5E437B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA96096; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:39:33 GMT (envelope-from kris@catonic.net) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:39:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Kris Kirby X-Sender: kris@spaz.huntsvilleal.com To: Peter Wemm Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cup holders.. Re: please do not close the drive tray automatically. (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/dev/ata atapi-cd.c) In-Reply-To: <200101102128.f0ALSfQ62448@mobile.wemm.org> Message-ID: X-Tech-Support-Email: bofh@catonic.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Peter Wemm wrote: > I should know better than to prolong the thread, but I know of at least one > person here at work who *does* use it as a cup holder.... (Mostly as a joke, > but yes, he actually does it!) Eureka! That's it! I got stock my living space with my excess 2X SCSI CDROMs to replace my coasters! I've only got about eight of them... ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 17:54:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (spaz.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62AD737B401 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA96276; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:52:27 GMT (envelope-from kris@catonic.net) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:52:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Kris Kirby X-Sender: kris@spaz.huntsvilleal.com To: Peter Wemm Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cup holders.. Re: please do not close the drive tray automatically. (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/dev/ata atapi-cd.c) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Tech-Support-Email: bofh@catonic.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Kris Kirby wrote: > Eureka! That's it! I got stock my living space with my excess 2X SCSI sed -e "s/got/can/g" ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 18:34:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C62C37B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2E4BA57532; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:33:55 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:33:55 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Wm Brian McCane , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem installing on T20 Message-ID: <20010110203355.A21082@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" References: <3A5D0432.DC472940@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A5D0432.DC472940@newsguy.com>; from dcs@newsguy.com on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 09:54:10AM +0900 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 09:54:10AM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral scribbled: | Wm Brian McCane wrote: | > | > I have an IBM T20 laptop that I want to run FreeBSD on. I have run | | [etc] | | You have a problem which is technically called an "IBM laptop". IBM, in | their infinite wisdom, decided to hibernate on the first partition it | doesn't recognize (hypothesis #1) or on the first partition identified | as 165 decimal (hypothesis #2). Whatever the case is, when the shitty | thing boots, the BIOS checks said partition to see if the system had | hybernated. Upon finding stuff there (the FreeBSD partition), it does | something which screws the system and locks up. | | One possible fix to enable normal operation is creating an hybernate | partition explicitly and a FreeBSD partition *after* that. You should be | able to find out from IBM how to create an hybernate partition. If not, | check the next fix. | | Another fix some people have resorted to is returning the laptop for a | refund and, optionally, never again buying from IBM. You might also | explain to them why you are doing so, but IBM does not support FreeBSD, | so, technically speaking, they are not required to make it compatible | with FreeBSD. Solution #3: My latest drool^Wdream is in the following URL: http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html (at least a thousand dollar cheaper than IBM notebooks.) -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 19:10:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (user-24-214-56-41.knology.net [24.214.56.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD2037B402 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0B39XR67379; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:09:34 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Message-Id: <200101110309.f0B39XR67379@grumpy.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Brett Glass Cc: "FreeBSD Chat List" From: David Kelly Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? In-reply-to: Message from Brett Glass of "Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:04:24 MST." <4.3.2.7.2.20010110140119.04980410@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:09:33 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > At 10:03 PM 1/9/2001, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > >It probably doesn't support ECC. > > I've got an e-mail in to Via Technologies, but I am not hopeful > that the chipset supports ECC. It's a shame.... When you're doing > up to 133 million accesses a second, it's nice to have some > safeguards. But AMD and Via need to get into the mainstream > consumer market, where price is an issue and ECC will rarely be > used. I think that you can use the ECC-enabled North Bridge chip > from the KX-133 chipset if you really need ECC. An interesting thing came with my new G4 PowerMac: a diagnostic CDROM. Haven't done anything with it yet. Apple designs fantastic hardware. But also too skimps on parity/ECC. The thing is that somebody needs to click with the morons making these incorrect decisions and explain something. I don't want ECC because I see it in "servers" and therefore want the same thing. Over the years I have had several instances of bad memory in my personal machines, many more problems at work. Its a bitch to diagnose. I've seen the "pros" screw up and get it wrong. So when shopping for PC parts I see very little additional cost for ECC on the MB, most of the cost is in memory. I want ECC so the hardware can tell me its sick. The fact that it may be self-healing is secondary. In 1991-1992 in my second temporary career as a sysadmin, had an installation of (12) SGI 4D-3xx machines with a total of 38 CPU's. (9) machines had a huge memory board with (64) 1M SIMMs, (3) had two of these for a total of 128MB. This was the first time I started paying attention to ECC and the corrections. One machine had a correction every 24 hours or so. Another never. The rest were somewhere in between. SGI only latched a single ECC event so I polled it every 15 minutes from cron, and cleared, so I could accurately log the next one. SGI's position was "if it doesn't crash its not broken." Never could associate a crash with the memory. In my third temporary career as a sysadmin, 1996-1998, the machines were physically much smaller, much faster, about the same memory. About half Sun, half SGI. From 20 to 40 systems. And had a lot more problems with memory. SGI and Sun were both logging ECC events to the normal syslog chain complete with diagnostics pointing out the exact address and memory slot the problem originated. When the same event repeated within a week, had no problems getting Sun or SGI to replace the component. Unlike the past, these systems sometimes crashed on memory failure as more than one bit would fail. Shutting down an intermittent system to run system diagnostics never detected these problems. Such is the nature of memory problems. I want ECC on my machines if only for the continuous diagnostics it provides. I don't consider it much different than AsusProbe, for monitoring CPU temperature and fan speeds. Demanded ECC memory in my rebuilt computer. So the local PC shop put it in. Into an Asus A7V with KT133. Then I find it doesn't do ECC. :-( Took 3 evenings of juggling the BIOS config before the machine would survive "make buildworld" and moderate ethernet activity. All that time I was wondering if I had a memory problem. Think the problem was "PCI Master Read Caching" and/or "Delayed Transaction". The shop enabled both. BIOS defaults to disabled. System is reliable with defaults. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 19:48:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (user-24-214-56-41.knology.net [24.214.56.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4725037B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:48:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0B3l4R72022; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:47:04 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Message-Id: <200101110347.f0B3l4R72022@grumpy.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Peter Wemm Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cup holders.. Re: please do not close the drive tray automatically. (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/dev/ata atapi-cd.c) In-Reply-To: Message from Peter Wemm of "Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:28:41 PST." <200101102128.f0ALSfQ62448@mobile.wemm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:47:04 -0600 From: David Kelly Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter Wemm writes: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > "I booted FreeBSD and it tried to retract my cup holder, spilling > > scalding coffee all over my keyboard and my lap. Now I'm going to sue > > BSDI for compensation for the damage to my computer and my nads." > > > > Couldn't resist :) > > I should know better than to prolong the thread, but I know of at least one > person here at work who *does* use it as a cup holder.... (Mostly as a joke, > but yes, he actually does it!) Clearly a new line of product for FreeBSDMall: A coffee cup with the proper shape on the bottom to hook into the opening in the CD tray so that the door *can't* close. Also a line of stickers saying, "Cupholder. Use only Geniune BSDi Cups." that we can place on the cupholder door. IMHO this "cupholder" was really designed for ice cream cones. We can only conclude Beastie likes ice cream better than coffee. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 21:47:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1179937B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:47:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.42]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA96436; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:47:18 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:47:16 -0600 (CST) From: David Scheidt To: David Kelly Cc: Peter Wemm , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cup holders.. Re: please do not close the drive tray automatically. (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/dev/ata atapi-cd.c) In-Reply-To: <200101110347.f0B3l4R72022@grumpy.dyndns.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote: : :IMHO this "cupholder" was really designed for ice cream cones. We can :only conclude Beastie likes ice cream better than coffee. : : Maybe it's a handy spot to store pointy hats? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 10 21:52:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA6D837B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:52:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08093; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:52:05 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010110224931.04437de0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:52:01 -0700 To: David Kelly From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Cc: "FreeBSD Chat List" In-Reply-To: <200101110309.f0B39XR67379@grumpy.dyndns.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010110140119.04980410@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:09 PM 1/10/2001, David Kelly wrote: >Demanded ECC memory in my rebuilt computer. So the local PC shop put it >in. Into an Asus A7V with KT133. Then I find it doesn't do ECC. :-( Sad but true; I think that Asus also uses the older North Bridge chip without ECC. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 4:32:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.tfcc.com (tfcci.com [204.210.226.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 785C237B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 04:32:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by proxy.tfcc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA29136; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:32:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: proxy.tfcc.com: mail set sender to using -f Received: from icestorm.tfcc.com(192.168.4.115) by proxy.tfcc.com via smap (V2.1/2.1a) id xma029100; Thu, 11 Jan 01 07:31:59 -0500 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:31:58 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Fuhrman X-Sender: To: David Kelly Cc: Peter Wemm , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Subject: Re: cup holders.. Re: please do not close the drive tray automatically. (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/dev/ata atapi-cd.c) In-Reply-To: <200101110347.f0B3l4R72022@grumpy.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Organization: 21st Century Communications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote: > Also a line of stickers saying, "Cupholder. Use only Geniune BSDi > Cups." that we can place on the cupholder door. > I always liked "This cupholder ejected by *BSD" ;) -- Chris Fuhrman | Twenty First Century Communications cfuhrman@tfcci.com | Software Engineer (W) 614-442-1215 x271 | (F) 614-442-5662 | PGP/GPG Public Key Available on Request To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 5:30:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [212.227.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71FA037B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 05:30:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with local-bsmtp id 14Gho6-0004oQ-00; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:30:22 +0100 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f0BDP3s42454 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:25:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from daemon) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Ports cvsup faster? Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:25:02 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <93kc7e$18jg$1@kemoauc.mips.inka.de> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Am I imagining this, or did the clean-out of the ports tree *substantially* speed up cvsup runs? Anybody have figures? -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 6:37: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.registeredsite.com (mail2.registeredsite.com [64.224.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437C937B401 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 06:36:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.threespace.com (mail.threespace.com [216.247.134.44]) by mail2.registeredsite.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0BEaoV30907 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:36:51 -0500 Received: from ATLANTA.threespace.com [24.21.224.204] by mail.threespace.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.05) id A4FE68800F6; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:36:46 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010111093517.01740fd8@mail.brightmail.com> X-Sender: tech_info@mail.threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:36:25 -0500 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Technical Information Subject: NT remains crackers favourite Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Not surprising news, but it's interesting that someone is paying attention to such statistics. http://www.vnunet.com/News/1116081 --Chip Morton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 8: 5:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4609037B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA50265 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:04:55 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:04:54 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Jason Smethers wrote: > From: "Chris Dillon" > > So... how simple is that to do? :-) > > Seems I missed your first question... Thanks for all of the info! That is a great start. This non-kernel non-hacker will see how many times he can panic his system in the course of coming up with a way to pull the info out of the 82443BX and trying to do something useful with it. I just got snowed out of work today (even though I'm here anyway, nobody else is, so I'm going home), so I'll see what I can do. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 8:54:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D26437B404 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:53:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 14Gkyu-0004Qo-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:53:44 +0000 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f0BGrin00304 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:53:44 GMT (envelope-from jcm) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:53:44 +0000 From: j mckitrick To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: .net, musings, and assorted ramblings Message-ID: <20010111165343.B269@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 07:46:27PM -0800, Robert Clark wrote: | | | I've seen some ".net" like stuff going on at the perl site. | | It looked like different groups of people are all | going to use the ".net" concept to their advantage. | | Good stuff. Is this something that can in any way benefit non-M$ systems? Will it be an open system, or at least allow for machine and OS independent modules to be used interchangeably? jcm -- o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o | ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 9:11: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3B337B401 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:10:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16207; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:09:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:09:28 -0500 (EST) From: To: j mckitrick Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: .net, musings, and assorted ramblings In-Reply-To: <20010111165343.B269@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, j mckitrick wrote: > Is this something that can in any way benefit non-M$ systems? Will it be an > open system, or at least allow for machine and OS independent modules to be > used interchangeably? The Python people are doing the same thing. It's called FREE-NET I think. It can be found at http://home.t-online.de/home/aotto/mqcon_E.html ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 9:32: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.thpoon.com (cr103675-a.bloor1.on.wave.home.com [24.42.106.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E871637B402 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:31:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 63528 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 17:31:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tea.thpoon.com) (mail@192.168.1.2) by cr103675-a.bloor1.on.wave.home.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 17:31:47 -0000 Received: from antipode by tea.thpoon.com with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14GlZj-0000CE-00 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:31:47 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ports cvsup faster? References: <93kc7e$18jg$1@kemoauc.mips.inka.de> From: Arcady Genkin X-Face: 0=A/O5-+sE[Tf%X>rYr?Y5LD4,:^'jaJ!4jC&UR*ZrrK2>^`g22Qeb]!:d;}2YJ|Hq"LHdF OX`jWX|AT-WVFQ(TPhFVak)0nt$aEdlOq=1~D,:\z5QlVOrZ2(H,mKg=Xr|'VlHA="r Organization: thpoon.com Mail-Copies-To: never Date: 11 Jan 2001 12:31:47 -0500 In-Reply-To: <93kc7e$18jg$1@kemoauc.mips.inka.de> Message-ID: <87n1cyq9ks.fsf@tea.thpoon.com> Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Channel Islands) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes: > Am I imagining this, or did the clean-out of the ports tree > *substantially* speed up cvsup runs? Anybody have figures? So, THAT's what it was! My eyes nearly poped out when I got results of cvsup run from cron this morning: all those `Deleting' lines... I thought that there could be something wrong with my supfile. What was the cleaning, anyways? Did they just remove stale files from the ports directory? -- Arcady Genkin Don't read everything you believe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 10: 2:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D0F37B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:01:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01887; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:57:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA6kayOd; Thu Jan 11 10:57:37 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA19860; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:01:46 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200101111801.LAA19860@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: No cable modems?? To: dmaddox@sc.rr.com Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:01:46 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mckay@thehub.com.au (Stephen McKay), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001220003436.A345@cae88-102-101.sc.rr.com> from "Donald J . Maddox" at Dec 20, 2000 12:34:36 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Delayed, but I didn't see anything tying this up, so... > > Removing them from the set of systems that can send you mail reduces the > > amount of spam you receive. > > I hope this doesn't spread. I have an ADSL connection and I send mail > directly from my mailserver. I don't want to send my mailing list server > output through my ISP. Nor should I. Part of the idea of handling my > own mail was both the independence and the learning experience. The alternative is that you have an X.509 certificate signed by a recognized authority, vetting that you are not a SPAM "provider". Nobody seems to want to go to this, though, even though it is a 100% reliable soloution which would make it a requirement that you can't send SPAM twice from a domain name without "burning" it. The problem with cable modems is that they do not assign static IP addresses (at least for the network under discussion). This is "good" if you are a cable provider who wants to charge a differential rate for clients vs. servers, since servers have to be at a known location, and this effectively means a static IP address. Many DSL providers are doing the same thing. The cable companies do it because they think the cable is for pushing content at you, and the DSL providers do it because they think you should pay metered rates on commodity bandwidth, so that their margins don't get eroded. Practically, though, IPv4 means that static IP addresses are a finite, and an increasingly scarce, resource. In normal operation, when a connection comes into a mail server, it will do a getpeername() to get the IP address of the connecting machine. Then it will do a gethostbyaddr() using this information. Then it will use the returned data from that to do a seperate gethostbyname(), which should return the IP address. IP addresses are delegated by the "in-addr.arpa." sub-root; names are delegated by the "." root. By having two different authorities, this means that, if you are a SPAMmer, you will have to "burn" your IP address (make it known that the IP address is that of a known SPAMmer) if you send SPAM. This costs you money, in that the IP address will get placed in the RBL (or even the netblock, if you buy one), and you will be effectively "diked out" of the Internet, as far as email is concerned. It also means that, even if you can fake one of them, you can't fake both of them: you have to hold a delegation from "in-addr.arpa." for your IP address, and you have to hold a delegation from "." for your domain name, or the crosscheck will fail, and your email will be rejected. This is a good thing: it means that it costs you real money to send SPAM, just like it costs those of us who pay to store or download it. Typically, you are then required to relay through a mail server which somehow verifies you as a customer; this is now increasingly done with SMTP AUTH, but the majority of systems do this by correlating your network authentication which gets you the dynamic IP address assignment with the mail server's list of "allowed email relay hosts". For a traditional dialup ISP, this is generally accomplished by the ISP owning the POP (Point of Presence) you dial into, and then using the RADIUS acconting records to validate that you are one of their customers (the network authentication is used as an email source host validation). The upshot of this is that, if you send SPAM, and your ISP won't shutdown your account, then the rest of the Internet can put pressure on your ISP by not letting _ANY_ of your ISPs customers, even the legitimate ones, send email, until the SPAM sender is cut off so that they can't send any more SPAM. The whole idea is to build economic disincentives into the sending of SPAM, and to build in an feedback loop which will result in enforcement of a prohibition against SPAM. This is actually a good idea, since the only enforcible laws are the laws of physics. Making something illegal through legislation has never stopped it, but if it becomes a violation of "that's the way the universe works", then it can't happen. We can only hope that this _DOES_ spread. Until it is 100% ubiquitous, the economic disincentives will not be universal (just as spanking a kid for misbehaving only occasionally will never teach the kid that there are consequences to behaviour: don't act universally, and you are just randomly abusing your child). This still leaves unethical companies which can sucker a student or other user into "burning" their ability to get an email account in the future by sending SPAM on behalf of the company, and it still leaves those stupid enough to buy bulk email services at a sufficient markup that it outweighs the disincentives (which outweigh by far the value of the "service"), but that can be fixed, in time. So your choices are: 1) Don't send mail 2) Relay through a properly configured relay server (apparently, the one in question has bee misconfigured to not use its external DNS canonical host name) 3) Get a static IP address, so you can send mail directly NB: Most of this is covered in considerably more detail at sites like www.cauce.org... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 14: 5:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA54337B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:05:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from dmlb.org ([62.253.135.85]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20010111220527.JHVH23225.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@dmlb.org> for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:05:27 +0000 Received: from dmlb by dmlb.org with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 14Gpqa-000IZn-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:05:28 +0000 Content-Length: 549 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:05:28 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi I'm coming to San Francisco in Feb. and would love to meet up with some FreeBSDer's around the Bay area. I'm around from Saturday 3th Feb. to Thursday 8th Feb. (if not a little longer), and staying at the Marriott on Fourth Street. A couple of the evenings will be free (Tuesday, Wednesday and maybe Thursday). Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@dmlb.org | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. dmlb@freebsd.org| Steven King To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 14:47: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from Mail6.nc.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E635237B699 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:46:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rdu162-227-020.nc.rr.com ([24.162.227.20]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:45:29 -0500 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:49:42 -0500 From: Neill Robins X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f) Personal Reply-To: Neill Robins X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <145103264495.20010111174942@nc.rr.com> To: Duncan Barclay Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer In-reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Duncan, Thursday, January 11, 2001, 5:05:28 PM, you wrote: DB> Hi DB> I'm coming to San Francisco in Feb. and would love to meet up with some DB> FreeBSDer's around the Bay area. DB> I'm around from Saturday 3th Feb. to Thursday 8th Feb. (if not a little longer), DB> and staying at the Marriott on Fourth Street. A couple of the evenings will be DB> free (Tuesday, Wednesday and maybe Thursday). DB> Duncan Hey Duncan, Try getting up with some of these guys. Good luck, Neill freebsd@nc.rr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 15:26:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CE737B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rdu162-227-020.nc.rr.com ([24.162.227.20]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:25:51 -0500 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:30:10 -0500 From: Neill Robins X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f) Personal Reply-To: Neill Robins X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <18366561.20010111183010@nc.rr.com> To: Duncan Barclay Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer In-reply-To: <145103264495.20010111174942@nc.rr.com> References: <145103264495.20010111174942@nc.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It might help if I put the link it, right? www.bafug.org Good luck, Neill freebsd@nc.rr.com Thursday, January 11, 2001, 5:49:42 PM, you wrote: NR> Thursday, January 11, 2001, 5:05:28 PM, you wrote: DB>> Hi DB>> I'm coming to San Francisco in Feb. and would love to meet up with some DB>> FreeBSDer's around the Bay area. DB>> I'm around from Saturday 3th Feb. to Thursday 8th Feb. (if not a little longer), DB>> and staying at the Marriott on Fourth Street. A couple of the evenings will be DB>> free (Tuesday, Wednesday and maybe Thursday). DB>> Duncan NR> Hey Duncan, NR> Try getting up with some of these guys. NR> Good luck, NR> Neill NR> freebsd@nc.rr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 15:50:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (user-24-214-56-41.knology.net [24.214.56.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F23237B404 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:50:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0BNnuR65539; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:49:57 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Message-Id: <200101112349.f0BNnuR65539@grumpy.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Chris Fuhrman Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: cup holders.. Re: please do not close the drive tray automatically. (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/dev/ata atapi-cd.c) In-reply-to: Message from Chris Fuhrman of "Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:31:58 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:49:56 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Fuhrman writes: > On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote: > > > > Also a line of stickers saying, "Cupholder. Use only Geniune BSDi > > Cups." that we can place on the cupholder door. > > > > I always liked "This cupholder ejected by *BSD" ;) I WANT ONE! Maybe we can talk WC/BSDi/FreeBSD into slipping that in the FreeBSD sticker sheet? :-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 11 16:50:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (user-24-214-56-41.knology.net [24.214.56.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B97837B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:50:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0C0nuR26893; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:49:56 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Message-Id: <200101120049.f0C0nuR26893@grumpy.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Arcady Genkin Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Ports cvsup faster? In-reply-to: Message from Arcady Genkin of "11 Jan 2001 12:31:47 EST." <87n1cyq9ks.fsf@tea.thpoon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:49:55 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Arcady Genkin writes: > What was the cleaning, anyways? Did they just remove stale files from > the ports directory? Without seeing any official statement, it looked like the old ports format files were the brunt of the deletions. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 12 19:23:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from neo.skynet.be (neo.skynet.be [195.238.2.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912E537B400 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dialup601.brussels.skynet.be [195.238.21.89]) by neo.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F39D7563; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 04:21:08 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 04:15:53 +0100 To: Duncan Barclay , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:05 PM +0000 2001/1/11, Duncan Barclay wrote: > I'm around from Saturday 3th Feb. to Thursday 8th Feb. (if not a little > longer), and staying at the Marriott on Fourth Street. A couple of the > evenings will be free (Tuesday, Wednesday and maybe Thursday). You mean that you're going to miss the UKUUG Winter Conference? ;-) -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 12 21:52:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD8AB37B404 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:52:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 89569239A4B; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:52:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:52:25 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Duncan Barclay Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Message-ID: <20010112215225.B97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dmlb@dmlb.org on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 10:05:28PM -0000 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2001-01-11 22:05 -0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > I'm coming to San Francisco in Feb. and would love to meet up with > some FreeBSDer's around the Bay area. > > I'm around from Saturday 3th Feb. to Thursday 8th Feb. (if not a > little longer), and staying at the Marriott on Fourth Street. A couple > of the evenings will be free (Tuesday, Wednesday and maybe Thursday). On Thurs, Feb. 8, BAWUG, the Bay Area Wireless Users Group, is having a meeting, so if you're interested in such things, you may want to stop by. There are a bunch of BSD enthusiasts in the group, even though we don't talk about BSD very much. See http://www.bawug.org/ for details. We could also have an impromptu BSD enthusiasts' meeting somewhere in SOMA; perhaps the 21st Amendment (2nd and Brannan) would be a good place to go for food, drinks, and a place to talk on one of those weeknights. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter The best way to accelerate Windows mailto:gsutter@zer0.org is at 9.8 m/s^2. http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 12 22:30:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ducky.nz.freebsd.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ECE537B400 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ducky.nz.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA42779; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:30:20 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <200101130630.TAA42779@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary / FreshPorts To: Gregory Sutter Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:30:18 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <20010112215225.B97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: ; from dmlb@dmlb.org on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 10:05:28PM -0000 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12 Jan 2001, at 21:52, Gregory Sutter wrote: > We could also have an impromptu BSD enthusiasts' meeting somewhere > in SOMA; *ahem* For those not familar with SOMA, I think that's South Of Market Area. It's a section of San Francisco. It's a terms used locally and which *they* expect *us* to know... damn foreigners... ;) -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary - http://freebsddiary.org/ FreshPorts - http://freshports.org/ NZ Broadband - http://unixathome.org/broadband/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 12 22:39:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D507437B400 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:39:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5B1CC239A5E; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:39:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:39:33 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Dan Langille Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Message-ID: <20010112223933.U6885@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: ; <20010112215225.B97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> <200101130630.TAA42779@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200101130630.TAA42779@ducky.nz.freebsd.org>; from dan@langille.org on Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 07:30:18PM +1300 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2001-01-13 19:30 +1300, Dan Langille wrote: > On 12 Jan 2001, at 21:52, Gregory Sutter wrote: > > > We could also have an impromptu BSD enthusiasts' meeting somewhere > > in SOMA; > > *ahem* > > For those not familar with SOMA, I think that's South Of Market Area. > It's a section of San Francisco. It's a terms used locally and which > *they* expect *us* to know... Hey, he's coming to San Francisco and already said that he's staying in SOMA; he'll have to figure out where he is at some point. The discussion isn't really relevant to those not in the SF Bay Area anyway, right? Greg P.S. Git on back to those sheep, Kiwi! :-P -- Gregory S. Sutter The measure of a man is the way mailto:gsutter@zer0.org he bears up under misfortune. http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ --Plutarch hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 12 22:42:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ducky.nz.freebsd.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F0B37B402 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:41:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ducky.nz.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA42810; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:41:48 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <200101130641.TAA42810@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary / FreshPorts To: Gregory Sutter Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:41:47 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <20010112223933.U6885@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <200101130630.TAA42779@ducky.nz.freebsd.org>; from dan@langille.org on Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 07:30:18PM +1300 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12 Jan 2001, at 22:39, Gregory Sutter wrote: > Hey, he's coming to San Francisco and already said that he's staying > in SOMA; he'll have to figure out where he is at some point. The > discussion isn't really relevant to those not in the SF Bay Area > anyway, right? Yep! But my aim was to educate those not familiar with said area. And to mock, ridicule, abuse, snarf, etc. > P.S. Git on back to those sheep, Kiwi! :-P Baaaaaa! Besides. It's Jordan's sheep. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary - http://freebsddiary.org/ FreshPorts - http://freshports.org/ NZ Broadband - http://unixathome.org/broadband/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 12 23:57:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00E2B37B400 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:57:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pcuse.com (adlax5-183.dialup.optusnet.com.au [198.142.109.183]) by mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0D7upj04823 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:56:52 +1100 Received: (from shaun@localhost) by pcuse.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f0D7uoH01642 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:26:50 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from shaun) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:26:48 +1030 From: Shaun Branden To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: whois microsoft.com Message-ID: <20010113182648.A1598@dingoblue.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org just got this on another list not sure if this is on the news sites etc, but try: whois microsoft.com for a laugh seems that someone is playing around shaun -- Shaun Branden, email:shaun@pcuse.com, icq:10469563 It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word. -- Andrew Jackson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 13 2:18: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C58037B402 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:17:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from dmlb.org ([62.253.135.85]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20010113101745.YFIA285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@dmlb.org>; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:17:45 +0000 Received: from dmlb by dmlb.org with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 14HNkn-0002o0-00; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:17:45 +0000 Content-Length: 663 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:17:44 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 13-Jan-01 Brad Knowles wrote: > At 10:05 PM +0000 2001/1/11, Duncan Barclay wrote: > >> I'm around from Saturday 3th Feb. to Thursday 8th Feb. (if not a little >> longer), and staying at the Marriott on Fourth Street. A couple of the >> evenings will be free (Tuesday, Wednesday and maybe Thursday). > > You mean that you're going to miss the UKUUG Winter Conference? ;-) Hell yes, any chance to get some warmth! Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@dmlb.org | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. dmlb@freebsd.org| Steven King To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 13 2:20:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0F437B400 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:19:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from dmlb.org ([62.253.135.85]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20010113101954.YFOQ285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@dmlb.org>; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:19:54 +0000 Received: from dmlb by dmlb.org with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 14HNms-0002oA-00; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:19:54 +0000 Content-Length: 1372 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010112215225.B97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:19:54 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Gregory Sutter Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Cc: chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 13-Jan-01 Gregory Sutter wrote: > On 2001-01-11 22:05 -0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: >> >> I'm coming to San Francisco in Feb. and would love to meet up with >> some FreeBSDer's around the Bay area. >> >> I'm around from Saturday 3th Feb. to Thursday 8th Feb. (if not a >> little longer), and staying at the Marriott on Fourth Street. A couple >> of the evenings will be free (Tuesday, Wednesday and maybe Thursday). > > On Thurs, Feb. 8, BAWUG, the Bay Area Wireless Users Group, is having > a meeting, so if you're interested in such things, you may want to > stop by. There are a bunch of BSD enthusiasts in the group, even > though we don't talk about BSD very much. See http://www.bawug.org/ > for details. This sounds good. I'm not sure of my plans on Thurday yet - I may have another commitment. > We could also have an impromptu BSD enthusiasts' meeting somewhere > in SOMA; perhaps the 21st Amendment (2nd and Brannan) would be a > good place to go for food, drinks, and a place to talk on one of > those weeknights. Excellent. As I've no idea where this is, I assume it's close-ish to my Hotel. > Greg Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@dmlb.org | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. dmlb@freebsd.org| Steven King To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 13 3:58:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xexen.com (cx762613-a.btnrug1.la.home.com [65.2.120.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 07C6537B401 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 03:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 58210 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2001 12:06:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO athlon) (65.2.120.36) by 65.2.120.6 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2001 12:06:58 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01c07d57$d9a06c50$24780241@athlon> From: "freebsd" To: References: <20010113182648.A1598@dingoblue.net.au> Subject: Re: whois microsoft.com Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:56:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org if the whois has been fixed by the time you read the post. i have a screenshot up. http://www.noskillz.org/whoismicrosoft.png ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Branden" To: Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 1:56 AM Subject: whois microsoft.com > just got this on another list > not sure if this is on the news sites etc, but try: > whois microsoft.com > for a laugh > > seems that someone is playing around > > shaun > -- > Shaun Branden, email:shaun@pcuse.com, icq:10469563 > It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word. > -- Andrew Jackson > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 13 4:16:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xexen.com (cx762613-a.btnrug1.la.home.com [65.2.120.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 973E637B401 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 04:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 58276 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2001 12:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO athlon) (65.2.120.36) by 65.2.120.6 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2001 12:25:11 -0000 Message-ID: <000701c07d5a$651e5830$24780241@athlon> From: "XeXeN" To: References: <20010113182648.A1598@dingoblue.net.au> <000b01c07d57$d9a06c50$24780241@athlon> Subject: Re: whois microsoft.com Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:14:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My previous post was pretty stupid, that whois is not gonna change, thats actual domains... its been a long night. Forgive my stupidity. ----- Original Message ----- From: "freebsd" To: Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 5:56 AM Subject: Re: whois microsoft.com > if the whois has been fixed by the time you read the post. > > i have a screenshot up. > > http://www.noskillz.org/whoismicrosoft.png > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shaun Branden" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 1:56 AM > Subject: whois microsoft.com > > > > just got this on another list > > not sure if this is on the news sites etc, but try: > > whois microsoft.com > > for a laugh > > > > seems that someone is playing around > > > > shaun > > -- > > Shaun Branden, email:shaun@pcuse.com, icq:10469563 > > It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word. > > -- Andrew Jackson > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 13 15:38: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D55837B402 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 9CD676AC20; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:07:39 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:07:39 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Gregory Sutter , Dan Langille Cc: Duncan Barclay , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Message-ID: <20010114100739.R66238@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: ; <20010112215225.B97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> <200101130630.TAA42779@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> <20010112215225.B97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010112215225.B97038@klapaucius.zer0.org>; from gsutter@zer0.org on Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 09:52:25PM -0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 13 January 2001 at 19:30:18 +1300, Dan Langille wrote: > On 12 Jan 2001, at 21:52, Gregory Sutter wrote: > >> We could also have an impromptu BSD enthusiasts' meeting somewhere >> in SOMA; > > *ahem* > > For those not familar with SOMA, I think that's South Of Market Area. > It's a section of San Francisco. It's a terms used locally and which > *they* expect *us* to know... Attention span problem, perhaps? He gave the address: On Friday, 12 January 2001 at 21:52:25 -0800, Gregory Sutter wrote: > > We could also have an impromptu BSD enthusiasts' meeting somewhere > in SOMA; perhaps the 21st Amendment (2nd and Brannan) would be a > good place to go for food, drinks, and a place to talk on one of > those weeknights. Greg, what's the 21st Amendment like? Not too noisy? It's just round the corner from where I sometimes stay in SF. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 13 15:39:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14AB137B402 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:39:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 8125F6AC21; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:09:22 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:09:22 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Duncan Barclay Cc: Brad Knowles , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Message-ID: <20010114100922.S66238@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dmlb@dmlb.org on Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 10:17:44AM -0000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 13 January 2001 at 10:17:44 -0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > On 13-Jan-01 Brad Knowles wrote: >> At 10:05 PM +0000 2001/1/11, Duncan Barclay wrote: >> >>> I'm around from Saturday 3th Feb. to Thursday 8th Feb. (if not a little >>> longer), and staying at the Marriott on Fourth Street. A couple of the >>> evenings will be free (Tuesday, Wednesday and maybe Thursday). >> >> You mean that you're going to miss the UKUUG Winter Conference? ;-) > > Hell yes, any chance to get some warmth! Come down here and help us fight bushfires. Here's today's weather forecast: Sunday : Partly cloudy with the chance of a shower in the southern suburbs. A hot to very hot day, then a milder evening. Moderate to fresh northeast to northwest winds shifting southwest towards midday. Adelaide City Max 42 Elizabeth Max 43 Mount Barker Max 42 Noarlunga Max 41 UV Index 11 [extreme]. Fire Danger Extreme (Mount Lofty Ranges Fire Ban District) The temperatures are in Celsius, of course. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 13 16:19:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 563DC37B401 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 10ED3239A4B; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:18:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:18:56 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Greg Lehey Cc: Dan Langille , Duncan Barclay , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Message-ID: <20010113161855.D97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: ; <20010112215225.B97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> <200101130630.TAA42779@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> <20010112215225.B97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> <20010114100739.R66238@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010114100739.R66238@wantadilla.lemis.com>; from grog@lemis.com on Sun, Jan 14, 2001 at 10:07:39AM +1030 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2001-01-14 10:07 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 12 January 2001 at 21:52:25 -0800, Gregory Sutter wrote: > > > > We could also have an impromptu BSD enthusiasts' meeting somewhere > > in SOMA; perhaps the 21st Amendment (2nd and Brannan) would be a > > good place to go for food, drinks, and a place to talk on one of > > those weeknights. > > Greg, what's the 21st Amendment like? Not too noisy? It's just round > the corner from where I sometimes stay in SF. Good food, good beer (they brew their own), and during the week it shouldn't be too out of control. If we get a table we shouldn't have much of a problem hearing each other. Will you be around, Greg? If ppl don't care about traveling around the city, there are any number of other places we could go instead (or as well). Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter My reality check just bounced. mailto:gsutter@zer0.org http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 13 16:57:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E120937B69F for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 2F2316AC22; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 11:27:19 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 11:27:19 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Dan Langille , Duncan Barclay , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: US Invasion by a UK FreeBSDer Message-ID: <20010114112719.A28496@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: ; <20010112215225.B97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> <200101130630.TAA42779@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> <20010112215225.B97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> <20010114100739.R66238@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20010113161855.D97038@klapaucius.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010113161855.D97038@klapaucius.zer0.org>; from gsutter@zer0.org on Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 04:18:56PM -0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 13 January 2001 at 16:18:56 -0800, Gregory Sutter wrote: > On 2001-01-14 10:07 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Friday, 12 January 2001 at 21:52:25 -0800, Gregory Sutter wrote: >>> >>> We could also have an impromptu BSD enthusiasts' meeting somewhere >>> in SOMA; perhaps the 21st Amendment (2nd and Brannan) would be a >>> good place to go for food, drinks, and a place to talk on one of >>> those weeknights. >> >> Greg, what's the 21st Amendment like? Not too noisy? It's just round >> the corner from where I sometimes stay in SF. > > Good food, good beer (they brew their own), and during the week it > shouldn't be too out of control. If we get a table we shouldn't > have much of a problem hearing each other. Will you be around, > Greg? Sounds good, but I don't have any immediate plans to return to SF. Things could change quickly, though--see http://www.linuxgram.com/newsitem.phtml?sid=108&aid=11537 if you haven't already. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message