From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Jun 3 5:48:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pele.WURLDLINK.NET (pele.WURLDLINK.NET [216.235.52.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ACEA37B401 for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 05:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jon@wurldlink.net) Received: from wurldlink.net (station160.WURLDLINK.NET [216.235.52.160]) by pele.WURLDLINK.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA90191 for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 01:49:01 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from jon@wurldlink.net) Message-ID: <3B1A2215.7B723CAA@wurldlink.net> Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 01:40:05 -1000 From: Jon Yamashita X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,zh,zh-CN,zh-TW MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: CVSup Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I had to re-install freebsd 4.3. I have one question, I forgot to install the ports. I don't know how I forgot, but I think since it is 1:30 am here that would explain it. =) So I downloaded the cvsupit.tgz to try to install it. but one question, where do I put it... in what dir in freebsd and also when installing it is this the correct format? pkg_add - a cvsupit.tgz thanks in advance for your guys help... =) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 4:29: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from inga.augusta.de (inga.augusta.de [213.179.139.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1349F37B405 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 04:28:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from case@inga.augusta.de) Received: (from case@localhost) by inga.augusta.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16847 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:28:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:28:53 +0200 From: Wolfgang Kess To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Mtools force XFree86? Message-ID: <20010604132853.A14663@inga.augusta.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I installed 4.3 on my vintage 486-SX Notebook. Everything runs nice. But when I tried to make install mtools there was the message: mtools depends on the shared library X11.6. And install suggested to install XFree. Of course I don't like XFree on this small Notebook :) I think the Makefile has to be modified? Thanks for advice, Wolfgang To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 7:42:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ancmail1.state.ak.us (rca.state.ak.us [146.63.92.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2740437B403 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:42:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian_raynes@dnr.state.ak.us) Received: from dnr.state.ak.us ([146.63.110.115]) by ancmail1.state.ak.us (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GEEU6I00.EJD; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 06:42:18 -0800 Message-ID: <3B1B9E5C.C9B6B3F4@dnr.state.ak.us> Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 06:42:36 -0800 From: Brian Raynes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander DiMauro , freebsd newbies Subject: Re: newbie References: <005d01c0eab6$ae3796c0$28fefea9@electronicdreams.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alexander DiMauro wrote: >I'm a newbie who is trying to install FreeBSD, but it keeps crashing at the XFree86 Setup part. Freebsd-questions is the right list for your question, however, you need to be more specific with where in the XFree86 setup it crashes and list any error messages you are getting. It is also possible that your trouble is occurring in a part of the setup that would also make your question appropriate for a forum for XFree86 or might be answered in the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) web page for XFree86. Check out this URL: http://www.xfree86.org/ By the way, as I understand it, asking _where_ to find help is very appropriate on freebsd-newbies:) Good Luck, Brian Raynes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 8:21:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 216A037B403 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:21:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alexdimauro@worldnet.att.net) Received: from dreams3 ([12.84.4.226]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010604152111.GXST8745.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@dreams3> for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:21:11 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c0ed09$a54b7bd0$28fefea9@electronicdreams.com> From: "Alexander DiMauro" To: Subject: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:18:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C0ECDF.B99CB150" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C0ECDF.B99CB150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could someone please clarify something? Here is a quote from the FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit: "FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. =20 FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies." And now, here is a quote from FreeBSD-Questions: "FREEBSD-QUESTIONS User questions This is the mailing list for questions about FreeBSD. You should not send "how to" questions to the technical lists unless you consider the question to be pretty technical." So, the newbies list says not to send "how-to" questions but to do it in = freebsd-questions. And, the freebsd-questions list says not to send = "how-to" questions. They seem to contradict eachother. I'm confused, can = anyone clarify, please? Thanks, Alex ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C0ECDF.B99CB150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Could someone please clarify=20 something?
 
Here is a quote from the FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid=20 Kit:
"FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.O= RG is=20 the place to send all questions about
   installing, = configuring,=20 running and using FreeBSD. All help requests
   are handled = by=20 FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions.
   =
  =20 FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer=20 how-to
   questions. It is a discussion forum for = newbies."
 
And now, here is a quote from=20 FreeBSD-Questions:
 
"FREEBSD-QUESTIONS        &n= bsp;     =20 User questions
This is the mailing list for questions about = FreeBSD. =20 You should not
send "how to" questions to the technical lists unless = you=20 consider the
question to be pretty technical."
 
So, the newbies list says not to send = "how-to"=20 questions but to do it in freebsd-questions. And, the freebsd-questions = list=20 says not to send "how-to" questions. They seem to contradict eachother. = I'm=20 confused, can anyone clarify, please?
 
Thanks,
Alex
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C0ECDF.B99CB150-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 8:30:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7AAE537B403 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:30:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsdq@yahoo.com) Received: from h2.impactidealsolutions.com (HELO support10) (216.98.200.91) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 15:30:08 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:34:09 -0600 X-Priority: 3 From: Peter X-Mailer: Mail Warrior To: alexdimauro@worldnet.att.net, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit X-Mailer-Version: v3.57 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 06/04/2001 9:18:40 AM, "Alexander DiMauro" is quoted as saying: . . . .|Could someone please clarify something? . . . .| . . . .|Here is a quote from the FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit: . . . .| . . . .|"FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about . . . .| installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests . . . .| are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. . . . .| . . . .| FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to . . . .| questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies." . . . .| . . . .|And now, here is a quote from FreeBSD-Questions: . . . .| . . . .|"FREEBSD-QUESTIONS User questions . . . .|This is the mailing list for questions about FreeBSD. You should not . . . .|send "how to" questions to the _technical *lists*_ unless you consider the . . . .|question to be pretty technical." . . . .| Look at underlines above: Notice the plural? I understand that as: Don't send how-to questions to -net or -isp or -hardware, but instead send how-to's to -questions. If your topic is really techincal [ie I'm writing a device for foo NIC, need some help with this part...here is my code ...this needs to be sent to -hardware or -net] but, 'Does foo NIC work in FreeBSD?' does not go to -hardware, but to -questions. www.nul.cjb.net www.FreeBSD.org _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 8:41:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ancmail1.state.ak.us (ancmail1.state.ak.us [146.63.92.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA6B37B403 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:41:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian_raynes@dnr.state.ak.us) Received: from dnr.state.ak.us ([146.63.110.115]) by ancmail1.state.ak.us (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GEEWWN00.9I4; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:41:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3B1BAC28.63DB82D3@dnr.state.ak.us> Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 07:41:28 -0800 From: Brian Raynes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander DiMauro , freebsd newbies Subject: Re: References: <002201c0ed09$a54b7bd0$28fefea9@electronicdreams.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alexander DiMauro wrote: >"FREEBSD-QUESTIONS User questions >This is the mailing list for questions about FreeBSD. You should not >send "how to" questions to the technical lists unless you consider the >question to be pretty technical." I believe what that means is that "how-to" questions are not for the _other_, more technical mailing lists, but _are_ for Freebsd-questions. Check out the freebsd.org website for links to information on the mailing lists - you'll eventually find a link to the Freebsd Handbook which will list a grouping of the technical mailing lists. They have titles which might lead someone to believe that their "how-to" question might apply. Brian Raynes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 9:10:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-server1.tampabay.rr.com (smtp-server1.cfl.rr.com [65.32.2.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B12D237B401 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:10:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhenao@tampabay.rr.com) Received: from hppav (2492160hfc55.tampabay.rr.com [24.92.160.55]) by smtp-server1.tampabay.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f54GAM501122 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000a01c0ed2a$2bcf7740$37a05c18@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Diego Henao" To: Subject: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:11:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0ECEF.7EC8C680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0ECEF.7EC8C680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0ECEF.7EC8C680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0ECEF.7EC8C680-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 11:45:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from web11707.mail.yahoo.com (web11707.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B50537B403 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:45:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tperlin@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010604184520.86909.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.200.148.220] by web11707.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:45:20 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:45:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Erlin Subject: Gnome vs. KDE To: newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Although this question isn't specific to FreeBSD, I think there might be some valuable opinions in this group. Which is better, KDE or Gnome? Why do you think so? Is the answer 'neither?' --Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 11:51:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F023837B403 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:51:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.46.72]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA632C; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:57:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3B1BD88B.31BC19C5@acuson.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:50:51 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Erlin Cc: newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE References: <20010604184520.86909.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tim Erlin wrote: > Which is better, KDE or Gnome? Why do you think so? Is > the answer 'neither?' Questions such as this are bound to start flame wars. You may not have meant it as such, but in the future, try to avoid "which is better of two highly popular choices" questions. I have a clear preference for one of them. But that is my own preference. Neither one of these desktops is better than the other. Try them both. Then use the one you like the best. Period. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 11:51:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF0037B403 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:51:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 5D0C255407; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B74E51610; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:39:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Linh Pham To: Tim Erlin Cc: Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE In-Reply-To: <20010604184520.86909.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2001-06-04, Tim Erlin scribbled: # Which is better, KDE or Gnome? Why do you think so? Is # the answer 'neither?' This question has sparked off several flame-fests and the answer, for me the answer is KDE... but for others... it's GNOME. It depends on the point of view (ie: true 'openness' and 'freeness' in the sense of the GPL, etc., ease of use, intuitiveness, stability, etc.) Why is KDE better in my point of view? I just like it's relative simplicity, usage of a toolkit (I like QT better than GTK in some cases), and it's looks/layout. It's closer to Windows/Mac and KDE 2.1.x is very stable and nimble on my machines (one is a P2-350 with 64MB of RAM, one is an IBM Thinkpad with a P3-800 with 384MB, one used to be a P-200 with 48MB). -- Linh Pham [lplist@closedsrc.org] // 404b - Brain not found To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 12:44:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from clyde.goodleaf.net (piscator.seanet.com [199.181.165.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B85437B401 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:44:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from goodleaf@clyde.goodleaf.net) Received: by clyde.goodleaf.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4CB7A5C61; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:57:24 -0700 (PDT) References: <20010604184520.86909.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> <3B1BD88B.31BC19C5@acuson.com> In-Reply-To: <3B1BD88B.31BC19C5@acuson.com> From: "J.Goodleaf" To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:57:23 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010604195724.4CB7A5C61@clyde.goodleaf.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I second David's take. Please, no long-running flame war over this. Both desktops are pretty solid nowadays. Unless you're a developer who has some stake in GTK or QT, you're best off using whichever feels better to you. That said, I'd like to encourage you to try xfce. It's not as nifty as Gnome or KDE (And there is nothing wrong with either of those; I'm adding another option!) but it is a little lighter on the system. It's all the GUI I've ever needed. Available in the ports tree... -John David Johnson writes: > Tim Erlin wrote: > >> Which is better, KDE or Gnome? Why do you think so? Is >> the answer 'neither?' > > Questions such as this are bound to start flame wars. You may not have > meant it as such, but in the future, try to avoid "which is better of > two highly popular choices" questions. > > I have a clear preference for one of them. But that is my own > preference. Neither one of these desktops is better than the other. Try > them both. Then use the one you like the best. Period. > > David > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > _____________________________ | J. Goodleaf | | | / ) | Technology Coordinator | / / | FreeBSD Advocate | ( ( | email ==> | (((\ \> |/ ) john@goodleaf.net | (\\\\ \_/ /_________________________| \ / \ _/ / / / / To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 14: 6: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from web11707.mail.yahoo.com (web11707.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C6FD237B406 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:06:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tperlin@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010604210604.5772.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.200.148.220] by web11707.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:06:04 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:06:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Erlin Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE To: "J.Goodleaf" , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010604195724.4CB7A5C61@clyde.goodleaf.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alright, so let me turn it into an etiquette question (seems appropriate for -newbies). As a newbie, my resources for 'which is better' answers are pretty limited. I suppose the 'try both' method is good, but I'd like to draw on the experiences of those on this list. I can understand avoiding asking this on -questions, but it seems to me that this kind of discussion is just right for -newbies. Or is it? --Tim --- "J.Goodleaf" wrote: > I second David's take. Please, no long-running flame > war over this. Both > desktops are pretty solid nowadays. Unless you're a > developer who has some > stake in GTK or QT, you're best off using whichever > feels better to you. > > That said, I'd like to encourage you to try xfce. > It's not as nifty as Gnome > or KDE (And there is nothing wrong with either of > those; I'm adding another > option!) but it is a little lighter on the system. > It's all the GUI I've > ever needed. Available in the ports tree... > > -John > > David Johnson writes: > > > Tim Erlin wrote: > > > >> Which is better, KDE or Gnome? Why do you think > so? Is > >> the answer 'neither?' > > > > Questions such as this are bound to start flame > wars. You may not have > > meant it as such, but in the future, try to avoid > "which is better of > > two highly popular choices" questions. > > > > I have a clear preference for one of them. But > that is my own > > preference. Neither one of these desktops is > better than the other. Try > > them both. Then use the one you like the best. > Period. > > > > David > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of > the message > > > > > > > _____________________________ > | J. Goodleaf > | > | > | > / ) | Technology > Coordinator | > / / | FreeBSD Advocate > | > ( ( | email ==> > | > ((( > |/ ) > john@goodleaf.net | > (\\ _/ > /_________________________| > / > _/ > / / > / / > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of > the message __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 15: 1:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ancmail1.state.ak.us (ancmail1.state.ak.us [146.63.92.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D5337B401 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:01:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian_raynes@dnr.state.ak.us) Received: from dnr.state.ak.us ([146.63.110.115]) by ancmail1.state.ak.us (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GEFEHX00.7VY; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:01:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3B1C0537.7D6AAFC@dnr.state.ak.us> Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:01:27 -0800 From: Brian Raynes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Erlin , freebsd newbies Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE References: <20010604210604.5772.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tim Erlin wrote: > > Alright, so let me turn it into an etiquette question > (seems appropriate for -newbies). As a newbie, my > resources for 'which is better' answers are pretty > limited. I suppose the 'try both' method is good, but > I'd like to draw on the experiences of those on this > list. I can understand avoiding asking this on > -questions, but it seems to me that this kind of > discussion is just right for -newbies. Or is it? > > --Tim Like many people on virtually any mailing list, when I see a subject line "x" vs. "y", I instantly think "flame-war commencing". Ideally, the more experienced people on -questions would be good sources for information on noticeable differences between two sets of software such as KDE and GNOME. However, as has been noted so far, the noticeable differences are not really possible to rate in an "objective" manner. Look and Feel - Both have different looks in their default configuration. Both are so customizable that this is a negligible difference to any experienced user. Check out the screenshots at both websites if the default look and feel are important to you. Speed - If you have a newer, faster machine, they will probably both make you happy. I have never seen any type of benchmark or speed comparison between KDE and GNOME. There used to be a lot of arguments about their respective CORBA implementations - I've never heard about a conclusive "winner". I also don't really care, unless one was really slower than the other. I _can_ say that I use neither because both are piggy with resources and space so that my machines are _less_ useful with them installed. Note: they are not that much worse than Windows (98 and 2K), and I'll probably give one or both a try when I setup my Windows box as a dual-boot machine (not a high priority for me yet). Applications - They both have "Office" type apps and many, many useful utilities. My only conclusion was that if I had the drive space of a newer computer (I don't), I would try to have both installed. My impression was that each had an app or two that was better than the equivalent on the other system. I haven't seen too much of Nautilus (GNOME filemanager), but Konqueror (KDE) looks really nice. I believe it will be a toss up before a couple more years go by. My personal advice, take it or leave it, would be to look at the different apps that are built especially for KDE and GNOME and decide which system has the most useful ones for you. What do you want to do on your machine? Would GNumeric be a killer app for you? What about Konqueror or KWord? Abiword looks nice and appears to be strongly associated with GNOME. Then there are the dozens of music playing/recording apps for both systems. If you're into programming, then look at the main languages used for development - I believe KDE is mostly C++, but there are Python and probably other wrappers for KDE. GNOME, last I checked, had a broader selection of languages - by design from the beginning of the project. I know this because I lurked in both websites shortly after GNOME started, when I first became interested in free software. When I'm having such a hard time figuring out which would be best for me - it's pretty hard to give definitive advice. Disclaimer: This stuff changes constantly, I'm not a project member or even a big user of either system, stuff mentioned here could be out of date, incorrect, or unfair. I like several things about both KDE and GNOME. Like others, I like the compromise choices of Windowmaker or XFCE better - they seem to have most of the features that I want/need as user and take up fewer resources. Brian Raynes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 15: 1:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D9537B403 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:01:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.46.72]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA60DE; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:07:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3B1C052C.CFD00356@acuson.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:01:16 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Erlin Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE References: <20010604210604.5772.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tim Erlin wrote: > > Alright, so let me turn it into an etiquette question > (seems appropriate for -newbies). As a newbie, my > resources for 'which is better' answers are pretty > limited. I suppose the 'try both' method is good, but > I'd like to draw on the experiences of those on this > list. I can understand avoiding asking this on > -questions, but it seems to me that this kind of > discussion is just right for -newbies. Or is it? At one time, KDE was better for newbies than GNOME. This was because GNOME was still new, buggy, etc. The situation is much different now. Both desktops are robust, stable, and suitable for newbies. I'm the biggest KDE fan in the world, and if you ask me privately, I will say "use KDE". But my preference for one over the other will most likely be based on factors that you would consider irrelevant. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 15: 3:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ams.amsinc.com (ams.amsinc.com [162.70.244.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8AB37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:03:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ben_Calvert@amsinc.com) Received: from ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com (ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com [162.70.34.52]) by ams.amsinc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA07603; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 18:02:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben_Calvert@amsinc.com Received: by ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 85256A61.00791DAB ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 18:02:54 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: Tim Erlin Cc: "J.Goodleaf" , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <85256A61.00791D5D.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:02:22 -0700 Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org i think the problem is less a matter of etiquette than of many people being very attached to their favorate (window manager | editor | os | etc). it sounds as though you were more interested in actually finding out which to use, so i'll offer the reasons i use the one i do: i started out with gnome and enlightenment, cause it was the default on the linux distro i was using. i really like the tremendous amount of customization that is possible with this combination - any element of your interface can look like pretty much anything you want. when kde2 shipped, i tried it, and went back and forth for a while. i haven't used gnome much for the last 6 months, i find that while kde is less visually customizable, it seems to be more integrated than gnome+a wm of your choosing, and seems to be more stable. i also spend a lot less time downloading cool themes and playing with them, and more time working. just my 2c To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 15:27:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ams.amsinc.com (ams.amsinc.com [162.70.244.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EFFB37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:27:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ben_Calvert@amsinc.com) Received: from ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com (ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com [162.70.34.52]) by ams.amsinc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA12883; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 18:26:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben_Calvert@amsinc.com Received: by ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 85256A61.007B4F58 ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 18:26:52 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: Brian Raynes Cc: freebsd newbies , Tim Erlin Message-ID: <85256A61.007B4DD6.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:26:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brian wrote: >My personal advice, take it or leave it, would be to look at the >different apps that are built especially for KDE and GNOME and decide >which system has the most useful ones for you. actually, as long as you've got the harddrive space, the applications run just fine in each other's enviroment. you end up with a lot of extra libs, but gnome apps run fine in kde, and vice versa. ( i've had a couple of promlems with cutting/pasting between apps, but not in a while). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 15:32:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from intrigue.willinet.net (intrigue.willinet.net [198.49.30.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4AFD237B401 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:32:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lute@willinet.net) Received: (qmail 15853 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 17:32:35 -0500 Received: from ps104sux.willinet.net (lute@205.246.171.69) by intrigue.willinet.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 17:32:35 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:16:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Lute Mullenix X-X-Sender: To: Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE In-Reply-To: <20010604184520.86909.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Rating: intrigue.willinet.net 1.6.2 0/0/N Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Tim Erlin wrote: > Although this question isn't specific to FreeBSD, I > think there might be some valuable opinions in this > group. > > Which is better, KDE or Gnome? Why do you think so? Is > the answer 'neither?' > > --Tim > Just to round it all out, I don't use either of them, find both slow and cumbersome, my preference is to just use my preferred window manager, with a straight up X session. >Lute< Hey! It happens. Well it does... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 15:35:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ancmail1.state.ak.us (ancmail1.state.ak.us [146.63.92.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7440E37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:35:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian_raynes@dnr.state.ak.us) Received: from dnr.state.ak.us ([146.63.110.115]) by ancmail1.state.ak.us (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GEFG3B00.CZ4; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:35:35 -0800 Message-ID: <3B1C0D49.AE1D2179@dnr.state.ak.us> Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:35:53 -0800 From: Brian Raynes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben_Calvert@amsinc.com, freebsd newbies Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE References: <85256A61.007B4DD6.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ben_Calvert@amsinc.com wrote: > > Brian wrote: > > >My personal advice, take it or leave it, would be to look at the > >different apps that are built especially for KDE and GNOME and decide > >which system has the most useful ones for you. > > actually, as long as you've got the harddrive space, the applications run just > fine in each other's enviroment. you end up with a lot of extra libs, but gnome > apps run fine in kde, and vice versa. ( i've had a couple of promlems with > cutting/pasting between apps, but not in a while). Yes, that's why I said that in the previous paragraph: "My only conclusion was that if I had the drive space of a newer computer (I don't), I would try to have both installed." He seemed to want to choose between them, though. I guess there is a sizable, mostly silent, group that advocates using both. Perhaps the best choice, if you can handle the space requirements. Brian Raynes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 15:47:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from maile.telia.com (maile.telia.com [194.22.190.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B6E37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:47:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fredrik@speechcraft.com) Received: from d1o74.telia.com (d1o74.telia.com [62.20.224.241]) by maile.telia.com (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f54Ml7028432 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:47:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.10.20] (t6o74p65.telia.com [212.181.216.185]) by d1o74.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14969 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:47:06 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:47:35 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Fredrik Olausson X-Sender: fredrik@molly.telia.com To: newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE In-Reply-To: <3B1C052C.CFD00356@acuson.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I second the opinion of most posters on this thread; try them both. However, being in love with my own voice (or is it my typing?) I'll post my own very subjective opinions, since you asked ;-) I started out with FVWM, being the default WM back in the days when I first started out with Linux, and it is the WM I use on my weakest laptop, since it is very resource-light. It has a rich configuration language, and if you're up to it, you can really create an original confguration which makes it an extension of yourself, sort of. Gnome is very good indeed. I haven't tried it for about a year now, but I have heard that it has made great progress. What I found difficult with it is that there is no central place for configuration of your environment, since Gnome lets you use virtually any windowmanager on top of it. Thus, you can sometimes set the same thing in two places, which I don't like (hears the *whooosh* of a backdraft flamewar ;-) On those of my boxes which can handle it, I use KDE 2.1.1, which I think is great. It is very stable, beautiful, and easy to work in. However, it does take a lot of resources, so it can be a bit slow. It has a very clean, corporate feel to it (appealing to the capitalist in me), so sometimes I long for the "hacker" feeling of Gnome+enlightenment ;) Try them all to see which you prefer, it's a lot of fun in itself. -Fredrik > Tim Erlin wrote: > > > > Alright, so let me turn it into an etiquette question > > (seems appropriate for -newbies). As a newbie, my > > resources for 'which is better' answers are pretty > > limited. I suppose the 'try both' method is good, but > > I'd like to draw on the experiences of those on this > > list. I can understand avoiding asking this on > > -questions, but it seems to me that this kind of > > discussion is just right for -newbies. Or is it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 17:35:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from c1456354-a.boise1.id.home.com (c1456354-a.boise1.id.home.com [65.4.107.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F3AC37B403 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from g0rdi@c1456354-a.boise1.id.home.com) Received: (qmail 6140 invoked by uid 500); 5 Jun 2001 00:33:50 -0000 Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 18:33:50 -0600 From: jeremy-novak To: Linh Pham Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE Message-ID: <20010604183350.A5943@c1456354-a.boise1.id.home.com> References: <20010604184520.86909.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from lplist@closedsrc.org on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:39:55AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:39:55AM -0700, Linh Pham wrote: > On 2001-06-04, Tim Erlin scribbled: > > # Which is better, KDE or Gnome? Why do you think so? Is > # the answer 'neither?' > > This question has sparked off several flame-fests and the answer, for me > the answer is KDE... but for others... it's GNOME. It depends on the > point of view (ie: true 'openness' and 'freeness' in the sense of the > GPL, etc., ease of use, intuitiveness, stability, etc.) > > Why is KDE better in my point of view? I just like it's relative > simplicity, usage of a toolkit (I like QT better than GTK in some > cases), and it's looks/layout. It's closer to Windows/Mac and KDE 2.1.x > is very stable and nimble on my machines (one is a P2-350 with 64MB of > RAM, one is an IBM Thinkpad with a P3-800 with 384MB, one used to be a > P-200 with 48MB). > > -- > Linh Pham > [lplist@closedsrc.org] Hi Tim I would like to take a small crack at that question and response. Linh is absolutely correct. I agree with most of what he says and as he pointed out the arguement is evenly divided. I happen to prefer GNOME because I find it fairly intuitive and very customizeable, some people do not. If it helps you any or at least makes you feel less indecisive, it took me several months to figure out which environment I like the best. And in my 3 years of freedom I have learned that for me the same desktop/window manager is not necessarily the one I want on eachsystem. Example: I have two older Micron Notebooks that I have chosen to use BlackBox because of it's simplicity (read low resource usage) they are elderly old genteleman with Pentium 133 MHz and 200 MHz & 16 and 32 Mb ram respectively.On a more agrresive system at home with a dual processor board and 512 MB ram I use Enlightenment because it looks extremely cool and you can do anything you can imagine to it. (These system requirements are not necessary to make it work though, I was just on a power trip.) And sometimes I just feel all gooey and don'twant to see any GUI applications for a few days (was terrified of the dreaded 'console' at first) so I run my 4.2 honey's in console/terminal mode for a while. Ok, so the point of all this is be glad you have choices (the unenlightened have no such freedom), and take your time figuring it out because they can all do the same things, they just look and behave differently. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 21: 1:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.118.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08E337B403 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:01:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@concentric.net) Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi.concentric.net [206.173.118.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id AAA29528; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:01:07 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts001d38.mer-id.concentric.net (ts001d38.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.50]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id AAA09815; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:01:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 20:58:55 -0600 (MDT) From: ML Duke To: Alexander DiMauro Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <002201c0ed09$a54b7bd0$28fefea9@electronicdreams.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Alexander DiMauro wrote: > Could someone please clarify something? Sure. Newbies sticks to a relatively stupid policy. Always has. Welcome to Free BSD, Alex. (And don't let ridiculous policies ruin the OS for you. It really _is_ great.) ML Duke > Here is a quote from the FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit: > > "FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about > installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests > are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. > > FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to > questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies." > > And now, here is a quote from FreeBSD-Questions: > > "FREEBSD-QUESTIONS User questions > This is the mailing list for questions about FreeBSD. You should not > send "how to" questions to the technical lists unless you consider the > question to be pretty technical." > > So, the newbies list says not to send "how-to" questions but to do it in freebsd-questions. And, the freebsd-questions list says not to send "how-to" questions. They seem to contradict eachother. I'm confused, can anyone clarify, please? > > Thanks, > Alex > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 4 21:40:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from c1456354-a.boise1.id.home.com (c1456354-a.boise1.id.home.com [65.4.107.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A3D437B401 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:40:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from g0rdi@c1456354-a.boise1.id.home.com) Received: (qmail 6933 invoked by uid 500); 5 Jun 2001 04:39:05 -0000 Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:39:04 -0600 From: jeremy-novak To: alexdimauro@worldnet.att.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <20010604223904.F6643@c1456354-a.boise1.id.home.com> References: <002201c0ed09$a54b7bd0$28fefea9@electronicdreams.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from mlduke@concentric.net on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 08:58:55PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Alex, Ok, I just wanted to say lighten up just a tiny bit. I know the mail list titles can be misleading when you first encounter them. Trust me, FreeBSD folks are the most helpfull people on earth. I recommend subscribing to a couple of news groups at a time to see what content is usually posted on that group. Trustme, your mailbox will fill up with juicy FreeBSD goodies in nothing flat. Then you can browse through them, learn a lot of stuff, and then unsubscribe from the ones that don't really meet your needs or are out of your league (yes they are out there ;-) ). Before you know it, it will be obvious what goes where. Relax man, FreeBSD rules! And so do the people out there that rack their brains over other peoples problems for a hobby (little shout out to GNU homies :D) > On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Alexander DiMauro wrote: > > > Could someone please clarify something? > > Here is a quote from the FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit: > > > > "FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about > > installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests > > are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. > > > > FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to > > questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies." > > > > And now, here is a quote from FreeBSD-Questions: > > > > "FREEBSD-QUESTIONS User questions > > This is the mailing list for questions about FreeBSD. You should not > > send "how to" questions to the technical lists unless you consider the > > question to be pretty technical." > > > > So, the newbies list says not to send "how-to" questions but to do it in freebsd-questions. And, the freebsd-questions list says not to send "how-to" questions. They seem to contradict eachother. I'm confused, can anyone clarify, please? > > > > Thanks, > > Alex -- "Without software it's just sand". "Without people, it's just sand and some software". --"${NAME}" ;-) (slightly modified from a fellow BSD'r that deserves the credit) ^ ^ email: pr0cy0n@home.com (but you already knew that) [ 0 0 ] ircnick: g0rdi , ' usenet/mail: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc/freebsd-hackers, lots more o root password: just kidding! "You have an account at host.com"? "I wanna be user@host.com; I would get so many 'cool' e-mails". To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Jun 5 12: 1:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from TK212017121218.teleweb.at (TK212017121218.teleweb.at [212.17.121.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0687B37B401 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from herbert@TK212017121218.teleweb.at) Received: (qmail 40968 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 19:01:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO freebsd2.rocks) (192.168.1.3) by 192.168.1.1 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 19:01:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 7494 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Jun 2001 19:00:55 -0000 Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:00:55 +0200 From: Herbert To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Mtools force XFree86? Message-ID: <20010605210055.A6895@freebsd2.rocks> References: <20010604132853.A14663@inga.augusta.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010604132853.A14663@inga.augusta.de>; from case@inga.augusta.de on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:28:53PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hei! The Makefile is OK! You just want to run: make -DWITHOUT_X11 (or make -DNO_X11) install clean in /usr/ports/emulators/mtools/ Herbert! * Wolfgang Kess (case@inga.augusta.de) [010604 14:42]: > Hello, > > I installed 4.3 on my vintage 486-SX Notebook. > > Everything runs nice. But when I tried to make install > mtools there was the message: mtools depends on the > shared library X11.6. And install suggested to install XFree. > > Of course I don't like XFree on this small Notebook :) > I think the Makefile has to be modified? > > Thanks for advice, Wolfgang To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Jun 5 13:13: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from inga.augusta.de (inga.augusta.de [213.179.139.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46B8637B403 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:12:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from case@inga.augusta.de) Received: (from case@localhost) by inga.augusta.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA52576; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:12:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:12:49 +0200 From: Wolfgang Kess To: Herbert Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mtools force XFree86? Message-ID: <20010605221249.A48853@inga.augusta.de> References: <20010604132853.A14663@inga.augusta.de> <20010605210055.A6895@freebsd2.rocks> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010605210055.A6895@freebsd2.rocks>; from herbert@bugat.at on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:00:55PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, thanks for the hint ;-) But two more newbie question for better understanding. Why are mtools combined with X11? How to examine which apps use X11 by default? Greetings to Austria, Wolfgang > The Makefile is OK! You just want to run: > > make -DWITHOUT_X11 (or make -DNO_X11) install clean > > in /usr/ports/emulators/mtools/ > > > > I installed 4.3 on my vintage 486-SX Notebook. > > > > Everything runs nice. But when I tried to make install > > mtools there was the message: mtools depends on the > > shared library X11.6. And install suggested to install XFree. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 6 8:22:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.cjb.net (mail.cjb.net [216.234.161.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2469037B401 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:22:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from madenosine@madenosine.cjb.net) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by mail.cjb.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f56FMMT02872; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200106061522.f56FMMT02872@mail.cjb.net> Received: from madenosine ([204.39.56.160]) by mail.cjb.net (Apache/1.3.17 (Unix)) with HTTP/1.0 for ; Wed Jun 6 09:22:21 MDT 2001 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: madenosine@madenosine.cjb.net Subject: No man pages installed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I just installed FreeBSD 4.3, however, no manpages were installed for the basic commands. There is no /usr/bin/man. I do not want to copy the man pages over from my linux system, because I know how some configuration files and commands differ from FreeBSD to Linux. Which package should I extract on the cd to install the man pages? Thanks in advance -- Stephen Oney - madenosine@madenosine.cjb.net - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 6 8:23:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.pace.edu (ntutil.pace.edu [205.232.111.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C9AF37B403 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:23:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from js43064n@pace.edu) Received: from stmail.pace.edu (205.232.111.7:3194) by smtp.pace.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.A89CEE57@smtp.pace.edu>; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:23:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:23:31 -0400 Message-Id: <200106061123.AA181731554@stmail.pace.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Jonathan Slivko" Reply-To: X-Sender: To: , Subject: Re: No man pages installed X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You can use /stand/sysinstall and add the manpages package. -- Jonathan ------------------------------------------ Jonathan M. Slivko Network Admin., DataSyrge Internet S. Server Co-Admin., AsylumNet IRC Network http://www.asylum-net.org -- check us out! Pager/Voicemail: (917) 388-5304 (24 Hours) ------------------------------------------ ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: madenosine@madenosine.cjb.net Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:22:22 -0600 (MDT) >Hello, I just installed FreeBSD 4.3, however, no manpages were installed for the basic commands. There is no /usr/bin/man. I do not want to copy the man pages over from my linux system, because I know how some configuration files and commands differ from FreeBSD to Linux. Which package should I extract on the cd to install the man pages? > > >Thanks in advance >-- >Stephen Oney - madenosine@madenosine.cjb.net - > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > ___________________________________________________________________ ___ Sent via the Pace University Mail system at stmail.pace.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 6 10: 6:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from shell18.ba.best.com (shell18.ba.best.com [206.184.139.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F5637B403 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:06:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phinger@shell18.ba.best.com) Received: from localhost (phinger@localhost) by shell18.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) with ESMTP id KAA29758; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:06:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam LaBarge To: madenosine@madenosine.cjb.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: No man pages installed In-Reply-To: <200106061522.f56FMMT02872@mail.cjb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hey just do a /stand/sysinstall and ftp the man pages from configure then distro and mark system manuals which is a little more then half way down the list, and that will install them for you. good luck -adam "Never underestimate the power of a small tactical nuclear weapon." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 6 16:43:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow035o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6090A37B406 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:43:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asd@blueyonder.co.uk) Received: from aliorhan ([62.30.68.157]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:53:48 +0000 From: "Stuart Duckworth" To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:56:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Installed Reply-To: ITServices@cableinet.co.uk X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: <0fd9a4853210661PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey I did it. Clean install *and* I got X up and running too. I must be doing something right. Now all I have to do is learn how to use it. Stuart To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 6 18: 7:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D2D837B401 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:07:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mimerki@saintmail.net) Received: from saintmail.net (nicej-1.stu.rpi.edu [128.113.142.113]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5717OW47798 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:07:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3B1ED3A8.4BCFF129@saintmail.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 21:06:48 -0400 From: Marcia Barrett Nice X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,es MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gnome vs. KDE References: <20010604210604.5772.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think the issue is not with the question (I believe) you intended to ask: Which is preferable, KDE or GNOME, and why? However "better" requires a judgment call and those people who prefer one to the other don't want to hear the other called "better." Hence do flamewars start. I prefer KDE. I tried GNOME and couldn't get it to work properly and gave up after about a month of trying. I think that if I could have gotten it to work I might have liked it. I don't know; it didn't work and so I don't like it. I even admit that it was probably my own fault. Other people like GNOME. I'll even bet non-newbies have educated opinions concerning stability, ease of use, etc. Marci Tim Erlin wrote: > > Alright, so let me turn it into an etiquette question > (seems appropriate for -newbies). As a newbie, my > resources for 'which is better' answers are pretty > limited. I suppose the 'try both' method is good, but > I'd like to draw on the experiences of those on this > list. I can understand avoiding asking this on > -questions, but it seems to me that this kind of > discussion is just right for -newbies. Or is it? > > --Tim > > --- "J.Goodleaf" wrote: > > I second David's take. Please, no long-running flame > > war over this. Both > > desktops are pretty solid nowadays. Unless you're a > > developer who has some > > stake in GTK or QT, you're best off using whichever > > feels better to you. > > > > That said, I'd like to encourage you to try xfce. > > It's not as nifty as Gnome > > or KDE (And there is nothing wrong with either of > > those; I'm adding another > > option!) but it is a little lighter on the system. > > It's all the GUI I've > > ever needed. Available in the ports tree... > > > > -John > > > > David Johnson writes: > > > > > Tim Erlin wrote: > > > > > >> Which is better, KDE or Gnome? Why do you think > > so? Is > > >> the answer 'neither?' > > > > > > Questions such as this are bound to start flame > > wars. You may not have > > > meant it as such, but in the future, try to avoid > > "which is better of > > > two highly popular choices" questions. > > > > > > I have a clear preference for one of them. But > > that is my own > > > preference. Neither one of these desktops is > > better than the other. Try > > > them both. Then use the one you like the best. > > Period. > > > > > > David > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of > > the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________ > > | J. Goodleaf > > | > > | > > | > > / ) | Technology > > Coordinator | > > / / | FreeBSD Advocate > > | > > ( ( | email ==> > > | > > ((( > |/ ) > > john@goodleaf.net | > > (\\ _/ > > /_________________________| > > / > > _/ > > / / > > / / > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of > > the message > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 6 19:37:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.198.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8163737B403 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 19:37:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@concentric.net) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.198.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id WAA09935; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:37:20 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts001d42.mer-id.concentric.net (ts001d42.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.54]) by newman.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id WAA23868; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 19:35:05 -0600 (MDT) From: ML Duke To: Stuart Duckworth Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installed In-Reply-To: <0fd9a4853210661PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Stuart Duckworth wrote: Congratulations (especially on X). Welcome to Free BSD. ML Duke > Hey I did it. > > Clean install *and* I got X up and running too. > > I must be doing something right. > > Now all I have to do is learn how to use it. > > Stuart > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 7 4: 2:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow025o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0818437B403 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 04:02:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from s_duckworth@blueyonder.co.uk) Received: from aliorhan ([62.30.68.157]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:56:36 +0100 From: "Stuart Duckworth" To: ML Duke , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:59:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Installed Reply-To: ITServices@cableinet.co.uk References: <0fd9a4853210661PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: <0a6493656100761PCOW025M@blueyonder.co.uk> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, Perhaps I was a little hasty when I used the adjective "clean" back there. When I shutdown everything was fine but when I booted again I got an error ... it would not boot. So I told it > boot /kernel.last and up came FBSD again. All working and okay. I shall have to copy kernel.last into the boot file. I was surprised when X work first time. I am having a little trouble installing a window manager, I have tried to get Afterstep in using /stand/sysinstall but it gives me an error trying to read xpm-3.4k. I have xpm in a directory on the DOS drive from where I have been installing but installation program does not see it. I need to be able to mount the DOS drive and get at the files. It's a bit daunting to have this OS, the best in the world I'm told, like a large blank canvas and not knowing what to paint on it. I think I should set myself a few targets and work slowly towards them. For example: get the printer working, mount the DOS drive at ad0, get the ethernet link working so I can mount the modem. Anyone out there doing the same kind of stuff? Stuart. On 6 Jun 01, at 19:35, ML Duke wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Stuart Duckworth wrote: > > Congratulations (especially on X). > > Welcome to Free BSD. > > ML Duke > > > Hey I did it. > > > > Clean install *and* I got X up and running too. > > > > I must be doing something right. > > > > Now all I have to do is learn how to use it. > > > > Stuart > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 7 14:44:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fort.comstar.ru (fort.comstar.ru [195.210.128.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5997B37B41E for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:44:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eurostroy1@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 29378 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 21:44:39 -0000 Received: from d239.p9.col.ru (HELO hfdth) (212.248.7.239) by mx.comail.ru with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 21:44:39 -0000 From: Еврострой To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Предложение по ОТОПИТЕЛЬНОМУ и БАССЕЙНОМУ ОБОРУДОВАНИЮ для частного и общественного сектора. X-Mailer: Mail Bomber Reply-To: eurostroy1@yahoo.com Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 01:44:53 +0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1251 Message-Id: <20010607214447.5997B37B41E@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Уважаемые дамы и господа. Фирма "Еврострой", восемь лет успешно работает на российском рынке, готова предложить Вашему вниманию полный комплекс услуг в области ПОСТАВКИ, УСТАНОВКИ ОТОПИТЕЛЬНОГО ОБОРУДОВАНИЯ для Вашего коттеджа таких известных европейских фирм производителей как: VIESSMANN, WOLF ( КОТЛЫ, БОЙЛЕРЫ из Германии), РАДИАТОРЫ KERMI (Германия), SIRA (Италия), полиэтиленовые трубы для отопления и водоснабжения REHAU (Германия), а также заказать проектирование и монтаж систем отопления, водоснабжения и канализации. А также у нас Вы сможете приобрести оборудование для БАССЕЙНОВ предлагаем оборудование ведущих фирм производителей DINOTEC, FUTURPOOL, KRULLAND (Германия), PAHLEN (Швеция), HAYWARD (Бельгия), ASTRAL (Испания). Наши цены не шокируют. Тем не менее, мы готовы предоставить строительным, проектно-дизайнерским, архитектурным фирмам и компаниям, размер скидок на частные заказы определяется индивидуально. Мы также заитересованы в развитие дилерских отношений. Мы всегда готовы к разумному диалогу. Информация о нас и о нашей продукции Вы можете получить на нашем сайте: www.eurostroy.ru , а также в нашем офисе по адресу: г. Москва, ул. Вавилова, дом. 65-а, 1 этаж, офис №8. Тел/факс: 719-0384; тел. 125-6859. Или на выставке "Росстройэкспо", Фрунзенская набережная - 30, павильон №4. С уважением, коммерческий директор ООО "Еврострой" Г. Борисенко To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 7 18:57:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f101.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6490A37B406 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 18:57:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennywhite@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 18:57:30 -0700 Received: from 161.26.20.8 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 08 Jun 2001 01:57:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.26.20.8] From: "Dennis White" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: booting problem after changing shell Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 20:57:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2001 01:57:30.0304 (UTC) FILETIME=[60314400:01C0EFBE] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ran chsh to use bash instead of csh. didn't know there were some other files i needed to change too. now, when i try to boot, i can't login in single user mode, since the system can't find the right sh to run. how can i get in to add the shell to rc.local or whatever file it is that needs to be changed? do i need to d/l the fixit floppy? thanks for any help on this i can get. i'm not a complete newbie, but definitely a real dunderhead to have waited til i came offshore for a week to mess around with system settings. denny white _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 7 19: 1:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dell.nexicom.net (dell.nexicom.net [216.168.96.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E54B37B401 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:01:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from north1@nexicom.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by dell.nexicom.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f581wQJ07433 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:58:26 -0400 Received: from mail.nexicom.net (mail.nexicom.net [216.168.96.10]) by dell.nexicom.net (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f581wOV07369 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:58:25 -0400 Received: from north1i8zn1udc ([216.168.105.203]) by mail.nexicom.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f5821BH03166 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000701c0efbf$d3decd40$0100a8c0@north1i8zn1udc> From: "Dave" To: Subject: ptys Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:07:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Nexicom: scanned by Inflex 1.0.6 - (http://pldaniels.com/inflex/) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org running out of pty's i think i need to recompile my 3.5.1 kernel to support more users. never done this before, what are the commands to do this? thanks Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 7 19:36:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ams.amsinc.com (ams.amsinc.com [162.70.244.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6FC37B401 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:36:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ben_Calvert@amsinc.com) Received: from ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com (ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com [162.70.34.52]) by ams.amsinc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA11074; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:35:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben_Calvert@amsinc.com Received: by ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 85256A65.000E4521 ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:35:52 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: "Dave" Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-ID: <85256A65.000E450B.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:35:15 -0700 Subject: Re: ptys Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org the kernel config process is in the handbook: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/books/handbook/kernelconfig.html although greg lehey's book does a really good job of explainig all the options. otoh, if you just have more users than ptys, i think that's a different setting than the number of users set in the kernel. i don't have all the right books here at work, maybe someone else can answer that? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 8 5:26:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dell.nexicom.net (dell.nexicom.net [216.168.96.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C346A37B403 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 05:26:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from north1@nexicom.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by dell.nexicom.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f58CNNH26545; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:23:23 -0400 Received: from mail.nexicom.net (mail.nexicom.net [216.168.96.10]) by dell.nexicom.net (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f58CNMV26503; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:23:22 -0400 Received: from north1i8zn1udc ([216.168.105.203]) by mail.nexicom.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f58CQ2H18819; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000501c0f017$249f2f20$0100a8c0@north1i8zn1udc> From: "Dave" To: Cc: References: <85256A65.000E450B.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Subject: Re: ptys Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:32:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Nexicom: scanned by Inflex 1.0.6 - (http://pldaniels.com/inflex/) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ok thanks, i set the pty to 516, rebooted and everything is working good now. thank's North ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Dave" Cc: Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 10:35 PM Subject: Re: ptys > > > the kernel config process is in the handbook: > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/books/handbook/kernelconfig.html > > although greg lehey's book does a really good job of explainig all the options. > > otoh, if you just have more users than ptys, i think that's a different setting > than the number of users set in the kernel. i don't have all the right books > here at work, maybe someone else can answer that? > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 8 14:45: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [171.66.112.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F2837B409 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA46786 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:36:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Revised Chapters for Introductory Book Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Revised Chapters 1-17 are now on my ftp server, at ftp andrsn.stanford.edu/pub/introbook/ (log in as ftp and type your email address as the password). These file are in pdf format and there are three files, Chap00.pdf (introduction) and Chap01-08.pdf and Chap09-17.pdf. Annelise To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 8 14:45: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [171.66.112.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC32037B40A for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA46779; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:33:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson To: Dennis White Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: booting problem after changing shell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You changed root's shell? At the single user prompt for a shell type csh. Annelise On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Dennis White wrote: > ran chsh to use bash instead of csh. didn't know > there were some other files i needed to change > too. now, when i try to boot, i can't login in > single user mode, since the system can't find > the right sh to run. how can i get in to add the > shell to rc.local or whatever file it is that > needs to be changed? do i need to d/l the fixit > floppy? thanks for any help on this i can get. > i'm not a complete newbie, but definitely a real > dunderhead to have waited til i came offshore for > a week to mess around with system settings. > denny white > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 8 19:10:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 693E237B403 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 19:10:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from sue@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f592A2F88961 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 19:10:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 19:10:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Message-Id: <200106090210.f592A2F88961@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 8 19:27:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from tierzero.apana.org.au (apana.internode.on.net [150.101.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BED137B401 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 19:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bastill@sa.apana.org.au) Received: from PhD_1.testname.com.au (bra@dialup-11.pasa.apana.org.au [203.14.158.140]) by tierzero.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA19557 for ; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 02:27:25 GMT From: Brian Astill Reply-To: bastill@sa.apana.org.au To: "newbies" Subject: FreeBSD questions Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 11:54:57 +0930 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01060911580401.01276@PhD_1.testname.com.au> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There is lots of discussion about -questions, here. Just an example of why you shold NOT be frightened to post there. I am considering a new motherboard. I asked on -questions if anyone could advise me about the one I was looking at. I had helpful responses from all over the world, includig one from my home town referring me to a supplier! DON'T be frightened. They are friendly and helpful out there. -- Regards, Brian ******************************************************** Dr Brian Astill Visiting Research Fellow Flinders University Institute of International Education Bus 8201 3480 FAX 8449 9199 bastill@sa.apana.org.au ******************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Jun 9 1:25:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from arsc.edu (mcgrew.arsc.edu [199.165.84.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84BAE37B401 for ; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 01:25:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from prokein@arsc.edu) Received: from peter-home.arsc.edu (uaf-du-03-14.alaska.edu [137.229.8.74]) by arsc.edu (2000-04-24.ARSC) with ESMTP id AAA88017 for ; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 00:25:15 -0800 (ADT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010609001948.00ad5e88@mailhost.arsc.edu> X-Sender: prokein@mailhost.arsc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:23:27 -0800 To: Newbies From: Peter Prokein Subject: bootEasy not as easy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Folks, I just installed FBSD and although I followed the steps describes the The Complete FreeBSD something didn't quite work out. I have an Abit BE6 and two HDs connected to the HPT366 controller. HD0 (C) holds Win2k and HD1 (D) has FreeBSD on it. The problem is that when booting I see something like this: F1: ?? F5: Drive1 Default: F1 No matter if I select F1 or F5, Win2k boots all the time, and I can't get to my FBSD. Any suggestions will be highly appreciated. Thanks, Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Jun 9 11:38: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D253337B401 for ; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 11:38:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (rh3.bfm.org [216.127.220.196]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 13:42:03 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010609133744.00eaba00@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 13:37:44 -0500 To: Peter Prokein , Newbies From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: bootEasy not as easy In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010609001948.00ad5e88@mailhost.arsc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 00:23 09-06-2001 -0800, Peter Prokein wrote: > No matter if I select F1 or F5, Win2k boots all the time, and I can't get >to my FBSD. Any suggestions will be highly appreciated. Do you have booteasy installed on both drives? If not, you cannot boot from the second drive. I have two drives as well: Drive 0 (1 Gig) has Windows 95. Drive 1 (10 Gig) has a 2-Gig Windows partition, the rest is pure FreeBSD. When I boot, I need to press F5 first to tell the system to boot off drive 1, then F2 to oot FreeBSD from the booteasy on Drive 1. Adam --- http://phonecowboy.com/registrar/twist/ finds a good domain for you and checks for its existence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Jun 9 12: 3: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from arsc.edu (mcgrew.arsc.edu [199.165.84.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A8B637B403 for ; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 12:02:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from prokein@arsc.edu) Received: from peter-home.arsc.edu (uaf-du-03-11.alaska.edu [137.229.8.71]) by arsc.edu (2000-04-24.ARSC) with ESMTP id LAA94393 for ; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 11:02:56 -0800 (ADT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010609105936.01ceade0@mailhost.arsc.edu> X-Sender: prokein@mailhost.arsc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 11:01:55 -0800 To: Newbies From: Peter Prokein Subject: Re: bootEasy not as easy In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010609133744.00eaba00@mail85.pair.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010609001948.00ad5e88@mailhost.arsc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 13:37 6/9/2001 -0500, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: >At 00:23 09-06-2001 -0800, Peter Prokein wrote: > > No matter if I select F1 or F5, Win2k boots all the time, and I > can't get > >to my FBSD. Any suggestions will be highly appreciated. > >Do you have booteasy installed on both drives? If not, you cannot >boot from the second drive. As far as I am aware I only have it installed on Drive 0. Drive 0 is 8GB and holds Win2k only, it has booteasy installed. Drive 1 is 4GB and holds FreeBSD only, it doesn't have booteasy installed. So if I need booteasy on Drive 1 as well, how do I get it there? Or should I just go ahead and re-install FBSD before I fiddle and possibly trash my boot sectors. -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Jun 9 14:10: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.hccnet.nl (smtp.hccnet.nl [62.251.0.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8045337B405 for ; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:09:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simon196405@bigfoot.com) Received: from simongdpyexe94 by smtp.hccnet.nl via uds34-33.dial.hccnet.nl [62.251.33.34] with SMTP id XAA09775 (8.8.5/1.13); Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:09:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Simon Siemonsma" To: "G. Adam Stanislav" , "Peter Prokein" , "Newbies" Subject: RE: bootEasy not as easy Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:08:35 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010609133744.00eaba00@mail85.pair.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Originally I did is as you describe. Later however I found out that I could install FreeBSD on the second drive without a boot manager. (I believe this is the last option of the three when asked to install a boot manager) This works perfect for me, and is a bit faster. I did a clean new install, but it can probally also be done be starting sysinstall as root. Simon Siemonsma -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of G. Adam Stanislav Sent: zaterdag 9 juni 2001 20:38 To: Peter Prokein; Newbies Subject: Re: bootEasy not as easy At 00:23 09-06-2001 -0800, Peter Prokein wrote: > No matter if I select F1 or F5, Win2k boots all the time, and I can't get >to my FBSD. Any suggestions will be highly appreciated. Do you have booteasy installed on both drives? If not, you cannot boot from the second drive. I have two drives as well: Drive 0 (1 Gig) has Windows 95. Drive 1 (10 Gig) has a 2-Gig Windows partition, the rest is pure FreeBSD. When I boot, I need to press F5 first to tell the system to boot off drive 1, then F2 to oot FreeBSD from the booteasy on Drive 1. Adam --- http://phonecowboy.com/registrar/twist/ finds a good domain for you and checks for its existence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Jun 9 23: 4:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from drake.host4u.net (drake.host4u.net [216.71.64.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D78C637B401; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:04:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsddiary@drake.host4u.net) Received: (from freebsddiary@localhost) by drake.host4u.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA16222; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:07:00 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:07:00 -0500 Message-Id: <200106100607.BAA16222@drake.host4u.net> From: Dan Langille To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: The FreeBSD Diary: 2001-05-20 - 2001-06-09 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The FreeBSD Diary contains a large number of practical examples and how-to guides. This message is posted weekly to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org with the aim of letting people know what's available on the website. Before you post a question here it might be a good idea to first search the mailing list archives and/or The FreeBSD Diary . These are the articles posted during this period: 7-Jun : Setting up a FreeBSD IPSec Tunnel Keeping things secure between two Internet connections http://freebsddiary.org/ipsec-tunnel.php?2 5-Jun : Specifying alternative port download sites if your main ftp site is broken, here's what to do http://freebsddiary.org/sites-for-ports.php?2 31-May : Concatenated Disk Configuration Make several disks into one large disk http://freebsddiary.org/ccd.php?2 24-May : Dual-homed NFS servers I tried. I failed, there must be an easier way... http://freebsddiary.org/nfs-dual-homed.php?2 21-May : Installing via wireless NIC The first, the best, you read it here! http://freebsddiary.org/wireless-install.php?2 20-May : Get your name in the kernel! Ever wonder why jkh gets his? http://freebsddiary.org/uname-a.php?2 -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://freebsddiary.org/ - practical examples FreshPorts - http://freshports.org/ - the place for ports To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message